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people always ask me we did not have people beating down our doors like I I always one of the things I've heard
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throughout the course of barcel is you should be making so much money here and doing this there and Deals there it's like I'm looking no one I don't see
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these mythical deals everyone's talking about um and there was no bidding war when churning came around going all right besties I think that was
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another epic discussion people love the interviews I could hear him talk for hours absolutely crush your questions in
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a minute we are giving people ground truth data to underwrite your own opinion what' you guys think that was [Music]
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fun Dave poroy thanks for joining us yep bar stool Dave you obviously own and run a media business I guess best way to describe it uh bar stool's got media
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franchises spanning Sports gambling Pizza reviews and um you've got a huge audience you've you've been through incredible corporate history which I think one of the things we wanted to talk about today was talking about the
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business if you're up for it yep and talk a little bit about the history of the business um super interesting to us
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when the acquisition happened with pen and the subsequent buyback we thought it was a super interesting story we
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actually reached out and tried to have a conversation with you at that time about it but unfortunately missed you so we're
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really glad to have you here today we hope to talk about that hope to talk about media Free Speech politics I think
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there's a lot of stuff you've talked about that we often talk about that I think we'd love to just have a dialogue and we'll see where this goes sounds
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good yeah welcome to the all in interview and thanks for being with us and chth anything you want to start with
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tell us about just getting out of New York yeah so we were saying before we relocated to New York in
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2016 when chernin bought half the company um and it was basically the concept was create uh a reality blog Media type company turn the lights on
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see what happened let everyone see it into the company and was easier to get Talent we thought in New York attract uh
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people to work and when athletes or entertainers come through they usually stop in New York and we can grab them
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into the office so that's why we moved there I don't think anybody in our company loved New York it was not I mean
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I personally think it's a dirty City I I don't like it I think just not my favorite cup of tea um and then I also
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uh got a lot of money so once we're starting to get more money with and I guess fast forwarding because when we did the second the pen deal um I was like I'm not the taxes are so crazy
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there Florida I went during covid because it was an open State that's really what initiated this whole thing
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is when Co happened New York lock down Florida was pretty much open so I went there visited and then kind of stayed there longer term during covid black lives matter happened a lot of things
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were happening in New York City and I'm like I may stay in Miami were you the only shareholder when churnin when Peter
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bought 30 5 or whatever 40% of the business Peter bought 51 right at that time 51% so four employees of mine I had
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given Equity like hey if something happens you have small it wasn't I don't even know if it's on paper um but for
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the most part yes I had given away 10 to 12% of the company to my longterm employees that was 2016 and when they
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bought when when churnin bought 51% was that a buyout or was that money going into the company so they yeah they
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valued the company at I think 12 and a half million wildly I didn't know what I was doing they they really that was too
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low but whatever that's what they valued it for I think I got about if I recall three and a half million went to me personally and then the rest went into the business account right and then you
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ran it you moved it to New York and you ran the business for a couple years and obviously things took off the the
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business grew were was churnin group like active at this this time like they helpful or was it you building the business and and they were just kind of quiet Financial sponsors how yeah how
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did how did that that face go so so when they they purchased us uh they basically
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gave the money we did we weren't great at business the first thing we did we went out and hired Erica nardini as CEO
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so she really helped expand the business side of what we were doing uh and we exploded But churnin to answer your
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question they weren't involved at all um I think they really I mean slightly here or there if we had a question I think
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the biggest thing they did is probably credibility like I I was probably seen as uh and still am at times like a wild
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card like you don't know what you're dealing with and you put the churn and name on it it's like oh these guys are legit they're real and maybe helped us
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get into meetings and doors but they weren't in the day-to-day operations at all probably I would say the best thing
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they did is they stayed out of our way um well that's that's crazy because in like three and a half years or maybe
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four years you took the business from like 12 a half million this is the question I the the question is Dave when that business explodes are you are you spending like a
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few minutes every day saying godamn why did I do this deal like or did you think
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it was really still worth it you know when the compy goes I never question it because again turn we did people always
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ask me we did not have people beating down our doors like I I always one of the things I've heard throughout the
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course of barcel is you should be making so much money here and doing this there and Deals there it's like I'm looking no
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one I don't see these mythical deals everyone's talking about um and there was no bidding war when churning came
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around uh so while understanding it my biggest thing I've never sold a company I wasn't looking to sell a company when they approached us they really were looking
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at like our gross revenue and I didn't care about gross revenue at all I care about making a profit and putting money in my pocket and that's how we that's how we earned our living they were
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basing our net worth they give me like comps of other companies I'm like we are way bigger than they are but they like
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well they have gross sales and all this it's like well they're losing money like if you want if I had a year to build up
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for that sale and I just wanted to inflate our gross revenue I could have done that easily I didn't so we
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definitely sold it for far less but at the same time they were the a they were one of the only serious offers we had
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and they stayed out of our way they they were kind of in a the perfect partner outside the price because they let us do
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our thing so I didn't regret it um and so when the pen deal came around was that you saying guys we have to really think about this or is that churnin saying we need to think about this or
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before before you get to the pen deal how did how did the growth how did the business go crazy over that three and a
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half years did you invest a lot of capital at that time I mean how did the business go from you know 12 and a half
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to half a billion dollars is it that you that you shifted the strategy and said hey let's go after Revenue now or did
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you I think it was it was probably two major things we we Erica was a perfect hire and built out the business side and people just totally underestimated us like I knew how big we were um and in a
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weird way I think a lot of times even though people know us now they still are kind of flabbergasted when you go under
00:07:16
the hood and see our influence like we barel was around 20 years so during the time that we sold I always gave the analogy and this is old internet but people throw numbers out and how big
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Their audience was and it's like if you're watching TV and someone has a remote control and they're just clicking every every second it's like everybody
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got one view like my my network has a view my network has a view and I'd be telling people yeah but ours aren't
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changing the channel like they're what they're our viewer is one they're on in the channel for 30 minutes listening so
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our influence was just underestimated so when you and we did nothing on the business side like we really were so
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busy on creating content and um you had to knock down our door to advertise with
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us so when we changed that philosophy and like let's build out the business side our Tech all of it with our
00:08:04
existing audience it was just kind of like a powder keg that exploded it didn't shock me to be honest granted the
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original business plan said in five years they wanted to sell it for like 50 million that was the original business
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plan and we got past that in like six months but you guys you guys decided to build quote unquote in the wild like you
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had cameras inside you made stars of some of the people in there was that organic or that that was like an
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explicit decision you're like this could be really interesting because these people are really odd characters they'll
00:08:34
they'll great for television yeah so it was organic in the sense I started barcel and I didn't want anyone to know
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who I was it was strictly business it was a it was supposed to be like a gambling Rag and I had fake names and
00:08:46
all this but in the early days of the newspaper it it slowly shifted that people were much more interested in the personalities behind everything so by the time we went to New York we knew the
00:08:58
focus should be on the personality and the people we had working here and we have this wild cast of characters and
00:09:04
we had we were hiring people that were no one else would ever hire or give a chance I often say we're one of the
00:09:10
first like digital true digital media companies like the people we found all the way from aenna marbles to Pat McAfee
00:09:17
to Alex Cooper McAfee couldn't get a job when he was done punting like how did you how did you hire McAfee how did you hire fan he he uh McAfee was a fan and
00:09:28
we met him during a Super Bowl like we were at the Super Bowl and we couldn't get credentialed we had an RV that we
00:09:34
parked outside and had guests come on McAfee came on um and he knew he wanted to get into media I think he wanted to
00:09:41
work at ESPN they wouldn't hire him um we did and obviously the rest of history with him Alex Cooper had a podcast that
00:09:48
you just started we saw a Sizzle reel for it it was something we'd never seen before so he called her into the office
00:09:55
and when I met her she basically was like well I edited and made this entire Sizzle real myself I'm like how'd you do
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that she's like I selftaught myself so we hired her no idea what would become with her podcast but we were willing to
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take chances almost like a band label type model it's like you hire this talent and you hope they hit there's a
00:10:15
lot of Misses we have how do you look at that like is it just Instinct intuition you you you see someone you're like they
00:10:22
got it they don't have it I mean you kind of yeah it is Instinct but it's wrong A lot of times it that's why I go
00:10:29
with the band label like you hear something this is unique this is interesting I may it may not always work
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for me like in my own personality a lot of the people who come from networks they're so used to being told what to do
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it's like all the way up this is how you produce it this is the hits this is what you have to do we didn't do any of that
00:10:45
it's Alex go do your thing sink or swim on the internet the beauty of the internet it it will tell you it's a
00:10:52
voting machine it VES correct yes so you know that's not true on ESPN maybe more
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so now but if you have you know Sports Center back in the day or you have the NFL show or your CBS you almost have to
00:11:05
watch it old terrestrial radio there aren't options the internet like you said a voting machine so we'd hire
00:11:11
people and let the internet decide what became of them you know the old Studio model Dave they would have talent
00:11:17
development and so there would be these producers that would come in and help the talent get better train them teach them the the art Etc but it sounds like
00:11:24
do you guys do that I mean do you kind of stay out of their way you kind of let them run let them figure it out themselves and there's no training
00:11:31
there's no tools there's no toolkit that says here's how you become successful here's how you here's what you got to
00:11:37
hit on here's what you got to do well here's what you got to learn not to do Etc yeah we don't do any of that I would say all those people anybody who tried
00:11:43
to do what you just described would not fit with us and I'd say is a dinosaur like again the people we've hired from
00:11:48
networks the talent it's like they need their handheld for the most part they're are so waiting this is what you do this
00:11:55
is what you say and we don't do any of that yeah so the raw independent Talent you just let them run they take off so
00:12:01
then the business blows up yeah and then yeah tell us about the pen deal like how did that how did that conversation start
00:12:07
when it happened we talked about it on our show uh because chamath and I have talked a lot about this idea of the
00:12:14
individual influence or media Brands need to monetize in non-traditional ways it's not just about selling ads but
00:12:19
there's kind of you know cpg businesses are being launched by Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner and there's an entirely new
00:12:26
business model that's emerged with the independent businesses that have been created over the last decade and this
00:12:32
seemed like a very good example of that um I guess how did the conversation with pen start and how did that that deal
00:12:38
kind of come about yeah so they changed the laws in the United States that's what sparked it when they said g Sports
00:12:44
gambling was going to become legal and a state issue we started when I started the thing we were a gambling newspaper
00:12:50
like that's what we were so when that happened uh I I instantly was like this is our chance so we proactively went out and tried to solicit deals um like I had
00:13:03
worked with DraftKings I had worked with FanDuel back in the DraftKings when they were four people they offered me stock
00:13:09
in the company they're they're Boston guys I remember we sat down and we were kind of building our thing they were building their so I knew this space
00:13:16
inside and out um we really didn't get any offers we hired mullus which is like a banking suck yeah they sucked they absolutely sucked behind the door is one
00:13:28
of the guys trash me so the reason they weren't getting any offers uh was because I was like an [ __ ] or
00:13:34
something to that effect I caught wind of that still irks me they got one penny of commission on that sale but they did
00:13:41
um the pen came through we had a guy David uh who's in the gambling space who introduced us to Penn I had never heard of them uh and Eric and I hit it off
00:13:53
with Jay Snowden the CEO um and that deal basically was exclusively negotiated between Jay and I Erica involved too um Turnin wasn't involved
00:14:05
they didn't really want to talk to churnin they want to talk to Erica and I because that's who they would be dealing
00:14:10
with so it's like what's Dave about does Dave and Erica get along what's the company about um and we negotiated that
00:14:18
deal pretty much exclusively and then um the deal was set up as a two-stage right
00:14:23
like they bought a piece and then they bought the rest later correct which yeah my understanding of it it was was always
00:14:30
going to happen that way like and and you know there are conversations that maybe would have changed our fortunes
00:14:37
who knows like in the beginning do we call it barcel sports book or not because some people may not have a taste
00:14:43
for Barcelo I argued we should we lose what is one of the great things I could have been wrong because dealing with
00:14:49
state legislatures and government is a fair um but it was always let's not go all in right right away because we don't want to shock gambling like legislator let's start it
00:15:03
slower and say we don't own them and then eventually we'll acquire the whole thing so that was always the plan and
00:15:08
the price points were kind of mapped out and the thought from Penn is if Dave and
00:15:13
Erica are creating all this great content we can integrate our sports book in there and now we just have a much
00:15:20
cheaper way to get a lot more customers as gambling becomes legal Offroad America correct that's their basic bet
00:15:27
and they had no National brand so in that sense they the perfect fit like they owned all these scattered casinos
00:15:33
throughout the country um most of them people probably haven't heard of unless you live in that area but what that did
00:15:40
do is it gave them licenses for the sports gambling so it's like what brand are they going to launch with they
00:15:45
didn't have one so in that we were the perfect fit and the launch was actually very successful in terms of you know we were up 15% or so in
00:15:56
Pennsylvania other states pretty good launches um but super competitive but yeah that was the theory behind it so
00:16:02
what what happened what then the deal kind of turned upside down pretty quickly right yeah I wouldn't say
00:16:08
quickly because I thought we were kind of moving and grooving for a while um our model was essentially we're not going to pay for
00:16:19
advertising like we're the advertising vehicle so the people in that space are are spending hundreds of millions of dollars and they're losing hundreds of millions of dollars in the market shares
00:16:32
it it's you mean the the gambling companies correct draft gangs FanDuel MGM Caesars hundreds of millions
00:16:39
hundreds of millions we're spending none they bought us so we're getting smashed in that regard but we're still kind of
00:16:45
holding our market share which I thought was pretty strong um our Tech wasn't great and I think we knew that they bought a company uh the
00:16:58
score for two billion I think they spent a lot of money on the score for the tech and it took a while for that to come out
00:17:04
we didn't control it I was under the impression for the past football season we didn't promote that hard like we kind of waited because we were waiting for the new tech and then by the time the
00:17:17
new tech came out they formed the deal with ESPN and we were done so did they step in and tell you how to run the company during that time were they kind of active and changing stuff or they
00:17:29
kind of leave you alone as well I think they were a headache for Erica in the sense of like we had to
00:17:35
report now to a public company and and there was maybe more emphasis on the bottom line I didn't get affected by it outside like of a scandal hit in their
00:17:46
public company but they were they were pretty they were pretty lenient again there were things that came up in that
00:17:52
relationship like that I don't think anybody could predict I still think we could do a a very good we're very good at promoting gambling uh and and for
00:18:03
pennies on the dollar consider compared to what other companies do you so they they but they did an ESPN deal without
00:18:10
your knowledge or were they did they tell you hey we got this this inbound from ESPN and we're trying to figure out what to do with it they did the ESPN
00:18:16
deal without without me being involved you find out you find out on the back end of that correct and so how did you uh structure this deal to then
00:18:27
get it out because it's seems I mean that press was even more incredible than the Press on the way in because it's
00:18:33
like pornoy just executed a really sick deal it looked like yeah I think there's was just a basic feeling from Penn and
00:18:41
us that the the Baro ESPN worlds are different um they were going to partner with ESPN they tried with us and I think the biggest the hiccup with me and my
00:18:52
Persona and what people feel about me it's one thing what is your persona and what do people feel about you depends who you ask some people love me and they'll be like this guy should run for
00:19:02
present and some people think I'm the devil so depends what article you read but you know all the things that uh you know who loves what what do they look
00:19:13
like that person and who hates you what do they look like I I well I'd say a rational person likes me and and a crazy
00:19:20
person doesn't like me but that that's my own I feel the same way it's so crazy yeah I mean obv I I think if you're
00:19:27
going stereotypical it's you're going to say the right generally likes me and the left extreme left generally doesn't I
00:19:33
think the the moderates on both sides generally like me but you know my core beliefs generally tend and people who follow me for a long time know this tend to line
00:19:47
up with the left more than it does with the right but the hate I get comes from the left
00:19:54
not the right you're a man without a home yeah it's an interesting kind of philosophy they have there but I will say if you say something that goes contrary to either side they'll equally
00:20:05
jump down your throat and be like ah forget everything we've said about him like I remember I said his pro-choice once and and I mean the right wanted to
00:20:13
SLP my cut my tongue out of my mouth I mean they were coming from people who had for 10 years been like we love this
00:20:20
guy we love this guy we love this guy disagreed on one point and they're like we hate this guy we hate this guy we hate this guy so uh both I guess I'm a
00:20:28
man with at home is a fair way to put it but Dave at the end of the day it's like you speak your mind and people
00:20:35
appreciate someone who speaks their mind and speaks their truth yeah or or you speak the agenda and if you speak the agenda they say we like you and if you don't speak the agenda we don't like you
00:20:47
I mean it's that and it varies from if you you cannot speak the agenda and they don't like you but if you get back on
00:20:53
agenda on the next thing they like you again they don't they don't stay too firm on on it's just what you said last
00:20:59
is basically what it is and I've always said I I well the biggest issue I have with a lot of things I don't want to
00:21:04
know what somebody thinks on an issue by their political affiliation like in I think 95% of the time you hear political people speak you already know what
00:21:15
they're going to say based on their affiliation which is sad and stinks 100% the flip side of that there's more people I well I know that there's far more people who think like I do and I
00:21:28
feel like that's the norm but a normal person also doesn't want to get in screaming matches about politics and
00:21:34
totally the craziness totally and On Any Given topic or policy you got a point of
00:21:40
view but if you don't conform to all the topics and policies that the agenda is defined to be by that party then you
00:21:47
don't fit and you're outed anyway you can't be an independent thinker today yeah do you think wild and we talk about
00:21:53
this a lot because we just did our all-in Summit this week and this this was a repeated theme with all the people we had we had kisten Cinema she was a
00:22:00
senator from Arizona you know she uh she got kind of ousted from the Democratic party for speaking her mind and not kind
00:22:06
of conforming to what the Democrats were telling her to do we have Barry Weiss who left the New York Times she was an
00:22:11
editor of the New York Times and she didn't want to conform to their agenda and she started her own uh publication
00:22:17
called The Free Press we we this was repeated a lot some of the academics we had were similarly outed from from their
00:22:24
communities um anytime you don't speak the agenda and you speak your mind you kind of get Ed and then you're on the outskirts and you kind of have to start
00:22:30
a fresh do you think that this is a new phenomenon in America or do you think this has always been the case and we're
00:22:36
just all kind of waken up to it because we're you know in your case you're more kind of celebrity now you're more well
00:22:42
known and this is becoming more of an issue for you has this always been how things have been I would guess it has
00:22:49
been this way far far more than I realized um OB I I think the internet certainly changes a lot of things
00:22:56
because people have more voice and more access to information um but I bet it's been like this a lot I mean I grew up in a house where like the New York Times is
00:23:06
gossip and my dad hates Trump like my dad hates him hates them hates him my mom hates them hates them hates them and
00:23:13
then I came under attacks from like the New York Times and that was confusing for like my dad it's like he's seeing things that he's like I don't understand
00:23:23
how this is happening and I'm showing him documented stuff but yeah I probably think it has been this way because it's
00:23:32
about power really and power is always something throughout history that people go pretty far to control maintain so I would guess this has been going on for a
00:23:42
long time we interviewed Trump you did as well what was that experience like what did you think about him before going into it what did you think after and then when you shared it with your
00:23:54
parents what did that do to your relationship with your parents or their thoughts about him yeah my um so I was
00:24:01
when Trump ran the first time I was like I'm Trump because I think politics are so broken and I think he's somebody who can just kind of like make a mockery of it and break politics I said that you
00:24:12
needed you needed a torpedo yes now I didn't think he was gonna win the presidency I was stunned um I was
00:24:18
nervous when I went to interview him to be honest because he asked me I had like 24 hours notice he was still a sitting
00:24:25
president I don't do interviews um so I was nervous when I went in my thought on
00:24:32
him was well I thought it was funny and interesting um but he gets if you if so if someone is interviewing me and I think they hate my
00:24:46
guts and I think no matter what this interview comes out I I could say if they cure for cancer and they' be like
00:24:53
no you don't or I give you a dollar and they want a hundred if I just think it's
00:24:58
no matter what happens they are going to try to crucify me I would probably be like an arrogant in that
00:25:05
interview he when he realized that I was not trying to like gut you or anything he he was affable open and and normal I
00:25:13
think that's what happens with him quite a bit it's like he senses instantly it's
00:25:18
not hard to tell who's coming for his throat who's going to be fair who's on his side and that changes his demeanor
00:25:24
um you know I I've done a decent amount of research I feel like on Trump people Everyone he's lying and this and that like that's what the the left always says he's a liar that's a lie that's a
00:25:36
lie and I read an article just like last week it was from uh Time Magazine is like top 10 lies he's told and most of
00:25:43
the lies tend to be what I would say are exaggerations like he talks how he would
00:25:50
if he was on barol like I'm going to build like aund he said he's going to build a th000 feet of wall and he built
00:25:56
like 300 feet or they're all like they're not they're CRA like even how he talks in the debate you know like they're eating the pets and he just talks as not presidential and then those
00:26:10
things get taken and they're like he's a liar does this but they're not what I would say egregious lies most of them they're quite clear exaggerations and he
00:26:22
doesn't talk like a president and whether that helps or hurts him down the road I just think he's he's a not presidential president I said during the primaries I
00:26:35
would I I would have voted for Nikki Haley I'll vote for Trump and the presidency
00:26:42
because I want the country to get along I don't know if they can with him because it's not his fault necessarily
00:26:49
to me but they just people just he's broken people's brains they're like they're just broken it's you see people it's like they're not making any sense the things they jump on like it there's
00:27:02
there's nothing he can say that'll make him that'll make him say what do you think what do you think happens if
00:27:08
kamalo wins it's probably more of the same uh you know I I I I think that what the Democrats have done is far worse than
00:27:19
really anything Trump has done like in terms of not allowing a primary to me that's crazy like I'm somebody who if I like to cidate in the Democrat
00:27:30
Democratic side I could have potentially voted for that person like to not give people a
00:27:36
choice and they really still haven't figured out well was he not prepared like is he not mentally aware can he not run is he too old he just thought he was going to lose the the theory you just
00:27:48
thought he was going to lose is not a real answer he ran like you have to then let other people run and if he's not
00:27:55
mentally there which I don't think he is comma hasn't known that like and she just lied about it forever and then they kick him out so there's so many problems I have with the
00:28:06
way I she never got a vote like I that I don't know you can say whatever you want about Trump he
00:28:13
won the Republican nomination by Landslide fair and square and comma did not so to me that's a major major issue some of her past statements to for me are just
00:28:24
like nutty uh and I don't like what what's happened in a lot of Democratic states so I would vote um like I hope if
00:28:33
she's elected it like California and New York those don't become what happens in the United States I don't know that it will I don't know that that much can change
00:28:43
is it hard to build a company of young creative people in New York that abide by the culture that you want or do you find yourself pushing up against all kinds of things that you're just like
00:28:55
what are these people asking for I don't get it no because we hire I think the hardest thing is just cost of living and
00:29:00
taxes and things like that for for our employees to live in New York City it's extremely expensive um we wouldn't run
00:29:08
into the the people who who think and are proper employees for us they're there and by the way we have a cross Barcelo we have super liberal conservative we have it all and they
00:29:19
Clash internally like how normal humans would but it's really the cost of living like in taxes and you know it's just
00:29:25
really really hard for a young person you know you could pay him 200 Grand a year and that is barely enough for
00:29:32
someone to live in Manhattan okay well talk about that for a second you know a lot of the undercurrent of why people
00:29:38
are angry is that there's just really exaggerated wealth inequality right there's folks like us that have sort of been lucky good whatever you want to call it on the right side of doing well
00:29:49
and then there's all the other people with the potential to do well but they're constrained somehow and it's just getting harder and
00:29:55
harder do you have sympathy for that argument do you have any sense of like what should be done to fix that I do and
00:30:02
it's such a hard thing to answer because I do but I also think at times it's a crutch like so where is that fine balance and I I guess the way I've
00:30:14
thought about it as an overall philosophy is we should be looking forward not backward and there feels like there's a whole lot of how do we
00:30:26
fix backwards but that's not necessarily going to really help forward if if that makes sense like I mean California going back and they're
00:30:36
looking at like reparations and things like it's it's you hear it it's like well how are they going to do that we
00:30:42
already have like crazy inflation and now you're saying you want to give everybody like African-Americans who fit the criteria like millions of dollars eat is like where what from where like
00:30:54
where is where is all this coming from so it's it's moving forward and at what point I think a fair question is at what point is like all right well this isn't working like we if you're just
00:31:06
consistently going back you're not going to go forward that's kind of how like if you pay a person at bar stool 200k I'm
00:31:12
just picking that number I'm not saying you do or not and they can't really make ends meet in New York City and they say
00:31:17
Dave I got to quit I got to move to a cheaper City or whatever after enough people say that do you pay that person
00:31:23
250 or do you think you have to move the company do you think you need to change the laws of the city like
00:31:28
what happens when you're running this business now that inequality issue is confronted every day in your employee
00:31:34
base what do you do yeah for me on a personal basis a lot of it we're we're we're sort of a talent company so if I can't lose this person I'll up the antie
00:31:44
and pay to keep them if we can afford to move on without them we'll move on without them so it's a but it's a case by case and a tough tough issue yeah
00:31:56
Dave I just want to go back and second um you ended up buying the company back for a dollar one question I had was how
00:32:03
how is it a dollar and not $20 million and then I want to talk a little bit about this idea of founder mode which I
00:32:11
don't know if you've heard this term but it was kind of brought up in Silicon Valley a week or two ago and it's cocaine it's cocaine but we we kind of
00:32:18
made a we made a whole thing about it I don't know if you like founder mode or not but yeah but not a Coke guy not a
00:32:24
Coke guy more of a coffee guy well I guess how how was it a dollar how was it not
00:32:30
sounds like a great deal how did you negotiate that and is it a dollar or is there is there a backend deal or something that we're that we're missing
00:32:35
that kind of got worked out yeah no I I I think what it the thought was we had a
00:32:41
lot of headaches with State legislates gambling there was a like the Massachusetts gambling lady hated my
00:32:48
guts other people did I think for pen to move forward they kind of had to disassociate this the bet they made and
00:32:55
quickly yeah and quickly and let's end on very good terms with bar stool myself um I think that's where it came from I don't think that I don't think we were like a critical part but did you propose
00:33:09
the terms did you propose that structure like was Mutual it was it was a mutual like understanding but a dollar seems
00:33:16
like that's a very Stark number was it burning money at the time well you have to put something I I think if you're
00:33:22
going to give me the company back like if you could do zero I think they could do zero yeah the company was losing
00:33:28
oh I see and so did you have to put money in yourself no okay and so you you took the business over and I want to play this clip Nick can you pull the clip up this should be
00:33:40
interesting I had a sales meeting today I think I think uh I let him I let him know's back I let him know I was here crack some skulls I think crack skulls but it's like you their comp plan
00:33:54
was to me they should be making more money on their comp plan less Bas salary uh you know a lot of people may not make it um this is going to get grimy again I
00:34:06
will yell at you I may forget about it 5 seconds later if you can't handle that don't be here but I'm sick of the excuses um and honestly our comp plan was ass backwards so sales people I want
00:34:19
people up there like a bunch of Gordon gecko looking [ __ ] that's good Nick yeah that's
00:34:26
good you step in you step in and you know this is what people in Silicon Valley might call founder mode you're just like cracking skulls you're seeing all the [ __ ] that's [ __ ] up you're
00:34:37
like we're going to right siize the the the organization we're going to get the ship headed in the right direction we're going to restructure comp I guess how
00:34:44
did things drift you know during that time yeah they drifted we're a big public company
00:34:50
um that was using us as a marketing machine really to drive drive consumers to the casino Maybe weren't as concerned about the bottom line um you know I wasn't involved in in really a lot of
00:35:03
the stuff but it was growth mode growth mode growth mode not bottom line mode not bottom line mode which was I think
00:35:11
what they wanted from us and that was no longer going to be the case and it isn't the case was this like Elon taking over
00:35:18
Twitter and he kind of goes in he's like what the heck is going on here and we gotta like Yeah Yeah from what I heard
00:35:24
or saw stories of that yes I think very similar where and again this is always this is one thing that I clash with the left there seems to be like oh we shouldn't have to work hard culture like
00:35:38
y i I have to work like 10 hours a day or you get what you work for so we're a great place to work people would kill to work for barcel there's not and and we're always find that like I had a
00:35:49
sales job grass is always greener on the other side but you know we do Sports entertainment it's a great spot to work
00:35:56
um and if you work hard you get rewarded but there is sort of that I don't know the shaming of success earning whatever you want to call it I do feel
00:36:08
like exists in our in our country a little bit and I I don't know where that came from but that's the thing that
00:36:14
that's the thing that irks me the most I think the um I've said this before but the the prosperity that we enjoy as a
00:36:21
country is because of the productivity that's Arisen from Entre R preneurship and Entrepreneurship means everyone has a chance to build something and be successful in this country and if
00:36:34
you are you deserve that success and we should be rewarding that success with accolades not with disdain we should be
00:36:40
looking down is close it's like it's a it's a slur like I love the word bilon someone could call me a billionaire I would take that and be like like and I've said that and I that's one thing
00:36:53
I'm always I won't apologize for making money having money spending money I had none of it like that's what I work my
00:37:00
ass off for and it is wildly irritating as somebody who you know built barcel I didn't take a vacation day for 10 years like and literally I had a hump in my neck because I was like
00:37:13
at my computer all day to then be told I have to coddle somebody else who works for me is infuriating and that's good the bigger you get like if I didn't have
00:37:24
to have HR or any of that I know you can't go over I I wouldn't like I want to be able to and the bigger you get the
00:37:31
less you can do that because you don't know who you're talking to and what type of issue that may lead to yeah do you
00:37:38
like the business building aspect I mean do you like Building Sales comp plans and looking at the finances and figuring out the right Next Step strategically or
00:37:48
do you like being on camera and creating content and working with the creatives yeah like how much of a business guy are
00:37:55
you are you like I I think I'm I'm underestimate a little on the business side there's certain aspects I like
00:38:01
certain aspects I hate like in our world I hate negotiating the talent contracts like if you could have told me Dave
00:38:09
don't like what's something you're going to hate it's the talent business where inherently we're trying to find new
00:38:15
stars build them up just so they can turn around hire an agent negotiate us and then leave so it's like this I wish it was a product that I owned and and the more we do that that is a sh I hate
00:38:28
it and and you know we're using everything and you it happens it Alex mcafe we make millionaires out of people but that's our business so I hate hate
00:38:39
hate that but the business side of it outside of the talent and what's the next steps I enjoy how successful has it
00:38:46
been to launch these products off of bar so you know you've launched a whole line
00:38:51
of stuff what's working and what's not working what have you learned from that yeah um what I've learned about our
00:38:56
audience and this probably holds true for a lot it doesn't matter what I say or our
00:39:03
influence it's the product it's like if if the product's good they do well like pink Whitney is a drink that kills it
00:39:10
for us we uh Dan bitette has a coffee now I did a one excuse me a one bite frozen pizza it was the biggest Frozen launch Walmart ever had it's gone it's
00:39:21
basically disappeared because it wasn't very good um and that's a huge missed opportunity probably because I got
00:39:29
everybody to eat it and we had like a million and not even our crowd our crowd's not a Walmart crowd because a
00:39:34
lot of you're saying the product sucked the actual P suck product was bad it tasted bad how did that happen how did
00:39:41
it taste bad yeah because I didn't know what the hell I was doing we had a third party um and and I just didn't
00:39:49
understand the frozen pizza Market I thought we had made it as good as you could make it and that just wasn't the
00:39:55
case um so it was a bad product I knew it was bad so after it launched it it pretty much disappeared I mean it's still occasionally there so it really is probably like High Noon which I don't
00:40:08
own but I'm heavily involved in it's an unbelievable product it's just a spectacular drink is the number one
00:40:16
vodka on the market so we have this this megaphone of people who trust us and we'll give anything a shot but if the product's no good it ain't going to work and if the product's good it'll work
00:40:27
you know years ago Starbucks set up a a corporate strategy they uh um Howard realized that every time they put a new product on the shelf right when you check out you know there at the register
00:40:39
yep it would sell like crazy but then it would also go sell like crazy in Walmart and Target and Kroger's all over the
00:40:45
country everywhere else and they were making brands with their platform they realized you know we've got a platform
00:40:51
so they started to kind of do these deals where in order to put your brand your product on the Shelf at checkout
00:40:57
they had to get equity in the business is that a model you've kind of played with where you can leverage the platform
00:41:02
instead of charging people ad dollars you basically align with brands that you love take a piece of those Brands and
00:41:10
then really truly partner up with them and help them be successful and participate in that upside with them yeah so we we yep we we've done that
00:41:17
we're starting to do that a lot more now that I've got the company back um because when it wasn't my company I I didn't care as much because like what what are we getting so I'm trying to be
00:41:30
much more like uh helpful to our talent because not only are they happy but it helps me keep them so we're doing a lot more deals now how you just suggested so what's the what's the day in the life of
00:41:42
Dave porno are you like on zooms all day talking to your teams about various things or when do you have time to make
00:41:48
the content like how do you how is your day structured it it really varies it it can vary dayto day uh I have my set like
00:41:56
content things that I'm doing whether it's Pizza BFF I may do a podcast like this and then uh business stuff but I'm
00:42:04
not working like how I was working when I started it we have good people at high levels who I trust and are doing like
00:42:11
whether it's a CFO whether it's sales I'm still in the loop on how everything's going but I'm not as
00:42:17
involved in the day each day I mean like would you say your style is Like You observe and then if you feel or sense
00:42:23
it's going off track you just jump in and just 100% yeah that's 100% understand what I would do CU
00:42:30
like yes I was much more involved the beginning I don't want to be that invol as like I want to kind of live my life a
00:42:37
little bit so yes that's I would say that's exactly how I do it let's go back to your roots for a second because I'm
00:42:43
I'm really curious about this do you you think that Sports gambling has been good for America so far based on how it's
00:42:51
been launched how young men use it yeah I mean I'd say it's new I I wouldn't say
00:42:58
it's good or bad I mean everyone's doing it I I'm sure there's horror stories just like any any Vice of people be like
00:43:04
oh I lost money or whatever but from my world I was doing it my whole life so I was doing it when was not legal um I'm also a firm believer and let an adult be
00:43:15
an adult like if they want to gamble they do it but I wouldn't say it's been it's probably created a bunch of business like because the industry is
00:43:22
spending so much and that trickles down in so many different areas um so gambling is going to happen there's certain things that I'm pretty
00:43:33
things that have happened since the dawn of man gambling is one of them it is going to happen so you might as well
00:43:39
legalize it and make money off of it rather than have it be underground bookies and things like that you talk a
00:43:44
lot about WNBA right now but are there sports leagues that you think are just yesterday's news a little bit boring not
00:43:50
really well baseball's slow they're also like in some bizarre world the last to embrace like highlights in the internet where the NBA was always the leader and Forefront I think it shows um you know
00:44:03
football is in it's the same same Sports basically I think baseball's the the core for that's lagging do you think uh do sports franchise values go up as legalization
00:44:15
happens and then do sports franchise values go down and you know is that a a big driver do you think for well the NFL
00:44:23
is talking about letting private Equity right invest they approved it last month they appr it
00:44:29
yeah so I can't that that to me can only make franchises Skyrocket and I don't think the bottom line always matters with sports like you're making money you're losing money there's not many of
00:44:42
them and it's the biggest toy anybody really on Earth can have right like what is better and it does for some people doesn't matter how much money you have you may still not be able to get it so I
00:44:56
can't see any World in which that doesn't continue to increase when this the demand far outweighs Supply do you
00:45:03
think that there's a world where somebody figures out a way for the players to own a piece of these teams as
00:45:09
well like you know you talked about you started bar stool your four main guys whether they was written down or not you're giving them equity in the same way if you think about the equity that
00:45:20
you know MJ created in the league or Lebron and Stephen KD have created in the league they capture it in salary but
00:45:26
they don't capture in equity how do you think about that it's a tough question because by
00:45:32
the time you would say like an MJ or a LeBron maybe LeBron a little different but by the time they've risen to the level of oh this guy need is worth the
00:45:44
equity like if you rewound Jordan's career from day one and you had the choice like we can have him on the Bulls
00:45:51
or whatever clearly the equity is probably worth it but by the time he establishes that you're depending on
00:45:57
almost which I find almost never happens in business rare like retroactive Goodwill good faith like okay you did so
00:46:05
much here's some Equity I don't I haven't found many people do that no I think for the NBA they'll just they'll
00:46:12
probably find a way for LeBron to get the Vegas franchise that's kind of his his reward maybe you know yeah but then
00:46:18
there's a bunch of these other guys that are when you say LeBron do you mean like the the Fenway Sports Group because he
00:46:23
that like they buy teams he's part of that I think I think it's probably it's probably Fenway maybe but I think that
00:46:30
they want him on the Mast head as a direct owner yeah I suspect if I had to guess but I mean Jordan had minority in
00:46:36
the Wizards do you uh still gamble for fun or do you still gamble mostly for let me let me tell you Dave's bets this year because I I had him pulled up he bet 2.1 two I mean you're yeah tell us
00:46:49
so 2.1 million on on on the huskys 1.3 million on those are winnings yeah yeah on the Masters on Scott 1.1 million on the the Celtics and the NBA Finals million dollars on Michigan
00:47:01
over Alabama and the Rose Bowl half a million on the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl half a million on Washington Over
00:47:06
Texas in the Sugar Bowl you're gambling yeah so ju to clarify the only the the early ones that I bet a million on Michigan to win the Rose Bowl that's was just a million to win a million I went
00:47:18
to Michigan I went to the game it's like this is going to be my big bet most of the others have been like Futures so
00:47:24
like the not nearly the winnings have been big because they been red hot I've gambled my whole life I love gambling
00:47:32
people we have a big partnership with DraftKings people are always like oh DraftKings gives them the money or pen no it's my own money um and yeah it's
00:47:39
it's a passion of mine I love doing I bet on horse racing Sports uh and I enjoy it the worst thing about gambling
00:47:46
in my opinion is we have to pay taxes on the winnings and then we can't carry over the losses the great news which may
00:47:53
be different I generally don't have to worry about about that because I generally lose so I'm never like worried
00:47:59
this year this year will be year one of of a quite a long life that I've won and it doesn't look like I'm going that way
00:48:05
but that is crap it's like a CALA like unrealized uh unrealized gam like you get tax on something you never had exactly is she still doing that by the way is that like a real thing she walked
00:48:17
it back a little she walked it back yeah she said oh no and then she also walked back the capital gains tax from 40% down
00:48:24
to 28 cuz the backl she got when she said hey I support the Biden proposal for tax reform there was so much backlash she started to lose a lot of
00:48:35
big donors and they were like okay you know here's the compromise and that's where they ended up so got it what ultimately happens if she gets elected
00:48:41
is anyone's guess you know uh all these guys are kind of tacking to get elected and no one knows what their actual
00:48:47
policy will end up being when they're in office for all these fol so you know we don't know do you gamble in any other
00:48:53
way craps dice yeah that's that's what I was going to ask you ever Black Jack poker or stocks you know like you did
00:49:00
stocks for a while didn't you on I love stocks like stocks is to me is better than Sports gambling because you rarely
00:49:07
like unless a company just goes poof you're not like out like if you have patience for the most part you can
00:49:13
bounce back uh so yeah I I I have money in the stock market I'll play like at a casino but it doesn't do it for me I I'm delusional like I think I know what's
00:49:24
going to happen in sports like I'm like oh I know how the Patriots are playing or like if I'm playing Blackjack like I
00:49:30
know the rules but I also know I have no control over what I I don't count cards
00:49:36
uh I like poker but I'm no expert at it and I don't play that often um it doesn't you're not a Quant guy you're
00:49:42
not an analytical guy that's doing modeling or anything like that no no no if I could go back and have one skill
00:49:47
I'd love to like be able to like have an algorithm for the stock market like how all the people make all their money
00:49:54
where it just hit like but I don't have that brain you did lot of it during Co but then that content kind of wound down
00:50:00
yeah well the stock market during Co so we did the pen deal like right before covid so we're gearing up to do all the sports gambling content and then Sports went away and I'm like all right well
00:50:12
the stock market is still going it's kind of the same thing so I started doing that without much knowledge live
00:50:17
streaming it and people loved it the swings in the stock market during Co bananas bananas it was I mean awesome like I loved it but that's not happening
00:50:29
so to do the daily I was day trading stocks aren't moving nearly unless it's like in earnings um they're not moving like they were so it's it's boring yeah yeah can you tell us about the Caitlyn
00:50:42
Clark Angel Reese WNBA controversy you have some strong opinions on that you I do have strong opinions on that I mean I
00:50:49
uh so I love Caitlyn Clark this I mean do you think do you think it's Larry magic all over again
00:50:57
we'll see how Angel she had a great rookie year she had a great rookie year yeah Angel was not on the same like I
00:51:06
don't think not all right if you love college basketball women's college basketball sure you knew who Angel Reese
00:51:12
was I did not know who Angel re was until she was doing this thing to Caitlyn Clark and this and fall who is
00:51:18
this whereas magic and bird everybody knew those two going in Angel and this isn't this will sound disrespectful but it's a fact people
00:51:30
would not the majority people would not know who she was if it wasn't for her going at Caitlyn Clark and becoming her rival by really trash talking her and that anybody in the media who says it's
00:51:43
anything other than Angel ree thrusting herself into this conversation which by the way business-wise brilliant for her because she's got shoe deals she a shack she's got all this stuff but people
00:51:54
would not know who she was if Clark is by every metric like a unicorn she's yeah exactly so uh and she put herself in the same conversation with it and she's had a great rookie season but Bird
00:52:07
magic knowing knew who she I mean I I didn't know I just saw Caitlyn play in college and she was doing things I just
00:52:14
never seen a woman doing basketball pulling up from the logo P like who the hell is this and and I just started
00:52:20
watching her and I didn't even during the game with um the LSU when and she did all the theatric I didn't notice
00:52:26
Angel during the game like I really I bet on Iowa I was mad and then I don't know if I get credit or or just approve however you want to put it I tweeted and
00:52:37
this went super viral and started like a race war I was so mad when they lost this game I tweeted Angel ree is a
00:52:45
classless piece of [ __ ] it's the first time I talked about her and it was right after she was taunting her and everyone's like you only said that
00:52:51
because he's black it's like I it had nothing to do with it was I bet on Caitlyn I was piss
00:52:57
it didn't matter who it was people always ignore that with me some of my most fiercest enemies Roger Goodell like
00:53:03
I I had to pull up like Brooks Kea like all these people I'd call classless pieces of [ __ ] it's how I talk but the
00:53:10
race thing from that moment really took off between these two I I I w't say it's Bird magic I think it's disrespectful to how different because those are two of the
00:53:22
greatest of all time two of the greatest of all time and Angel's a great rebounder and to Caitlyn's credit I think that she has completely uplifted
00:53:28
the WNBA to a level that I don't think anybody expected it's insane the number one game on NB NBA TV has been a WNBA
00:53:37
game it's beating the NBA I remember when you know we had a moment where Steph had all these ankle injuries this
00:53:42
was like in that first era with Monte Ellison and there was a lot of pressure to trade step and he had just came back
00:53:50
and all of a sudden he was lights out right and then what you saw was every young kid wearing his his jersey because
00:53:57
it's much easier to look at Steph and say I could be like Steph right not nearly as tall as everybody else not nearly as huge as everybody else and you're starting to see the same thing
00:54:08
with Caitlyn where all these kids are like I can shoot like her that's where you become Transcendent because you have
00:54:13
this approach that seems like well I could do this too it's that thing that just makes you a huge start it I said
00:54:20
when Nike did the deal with her I thought it was the most the biggest steal like in the history of Sports
00:54:26
Marketing like it was 10 million and then you look at like Devon Booker is like 30 million a year there's no person
00:54:33
on the planet who can tell me Devin Booker is more marketable than Caitlyn Clark it's like Caitlyn Clark is up
00:54:39
there with anybody she's she's hit something that that you rarely whether it's a tiger a Serena somebody who is
00:54:46
just redefining the sport and it's not the color of her skin that I that was what drove me nuts with this cuz the WNBA is filled with white superstars people are at Diana terasi um the
00:55:00
Sabrina iok there's ton ofu yeah ionescu and the the um woman from Yukon who's at
00:55:08
the to top and S bird there's ton she plays different and if you watch the game she does not play how anybody's seen a woman play that's it that and everyone made it into all these others
00:55:20
this it's she plays different you haven't seen it before Dave let me ask you a question you've remained steadfast
00:55:27
in speaking your mind speaking your truth telling your opinions it's gotten you a lot of heat over the years you got
00:55:33
a lot of people writing articles negatively about you chasing down personal stories about you all this sort of stuff you're still here and there was
00:55:41
a period of time for a couple years where everyone talked about cancel culture and someone does something that
00:55:46
is inappropriate or is a microaggression using a big platform and they should be canceled and everyone rallies behind and
00:55:53
puts this person out they're done but you haven't been cancelled why is that and do you think that we're kind of post cancel culture in America was that a moment that's come and gone or do you think we're still kind of fighting the
00:56:05
fight for free speech in America and the ability to speak one's mind um and speak one's Voice without being deplatformed
00:56:12
and and shut down yeah I don't think it's totally gone I think I'm here just it it it barcel has been around for a
00:56:19
long time so people really do know me like the fans or or people have read barcel for 20 years stuck by me and H
00:56:27
and and that's been important like if you're on someone else's platform it's a lot easier to deplatform them because
00:56:34
you have advertisers and somebody above who don't want to deal with the headache or anything like that so I I've been L
00:56:40
even when Penn was here and there are people above me theoretically what choice do they have
00:56:46
to have my back because it's it's well if you don't have my back I still have this megaphone I'm just going to be like
00:56:52
guess what these guys don't have my back and then poof everything they've done so I've had that luxury of being able to
00:56:58
speak directly and not having to worry where if you're just on a different network they can pull the plug a lot
00:57:03
easier um and I I'm kind of an open book so it's I I think what has worked in my favor I've never been worried well if I speak out or defend myself what's going to come
00:57:17
out next or is there someone lurking in the closets I I've never care I everything is out there I I there's I
00:57:23
I've told the truth and that's allowed me to be pretty comfortable like the heavy accusations like Business Insider when like sexual misconduct type stuff like all garbage and when I say point
00:57:35
there wasn't 01 there was no truth to any of the stuff that happened and I had all the facts and so when this thing hit
00:57:43
like I just it made me look kind of stupid or embarrassed because nobody wants like personal text but I had that
00:57:49
stuff out there like it was out there hours after it's like here it is here's everything that disproves it not
00:57:56
everyone does that you think people are just sick and tired of being told what to think and who to follow and who's right and who's wrong and they want to
00:58:02
kind of make up their own minds and not kind of get behind this whole cancel culture organizational system anymore
00:58:09
you think 100% I find my biggest issue is I don't know what to believe I I don't believe anything like and that's kind of unfortunate like you you just hear so many things and it's a lot of
00:58:22
times even hard to figure out where the truth is like you try dig into it especially in politics like but that's
00:58:29
probably a good answer example I hear so many things on both sides then when you really try to dig down and be like is
00:58:36
this real is this fake it's it's hard to find the root of the truth and that is actually kind of scary I think that's why that's why freedom of speech matters now more than ever because we got to
00:58:48
have more voices not fewer so that people can ultimately find the truth themselves have you been able to
00:58:54
convince your dad that maybe the New York Times isn't always telling the truth no I haven't which is
00:59:00
scary he he doesn't have an answer for it with me he does but like he still truly
00:59:06
believes he's one of those guys where there's nothing Trump could do nothing nothing like he's bad and if he gives the greatest answer greatest thing whatever it doesn't matter Trump's bad I
00:59:18
me you can give well what about the other side he doesn't care so uh no he's skewed he he he's somebody who's going
00:59:24
to watch mainstream media and pretty much believe everything they say maybe a little bit he's changed but and I think
00:59:32
there's a lot of people like them well before we wrap what's the what's the future for barcol Dave what are you what
00:59:37
are you going to do with the business over time is it just a business you now own forever you're going to run it make
00:59:42
a profit live off of it I mean what's your your longterm yeah I mean that that kind of nailed it I and this may sound
00:59:50
not like a true founder I sometimes get this but I want Barcelo to be a place where we break even or make money so I'm not overly stressed and pulling my hair out and people enjoy coming to work and
01:00:02
they have a good job that like I've said and I I said to our employees when I took it it's like I've made my money I I
01:00:09
I'm never going to become like a billionaire off Barcelona someone pays it so I'm happy I'm comfortable and I
01:00:15
want our employees to have a place there that they know a job is there and you know they don't hate going to work
01:00:20
that's kind of and we'll look for opportunities and try to continue to grow but I'm not maniacal how do we get
01:00:27
to the next step yeah that's awes that's great Dave thanks for being with us this has been an awesome chat really enjoyed
01:00:33
it see you guys going