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this is going to be a feisty episode is it two of us are on Greenwich Mean Time two
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of us are in Pacific J Cal still would sleep in his head I'm good actually you good I'm good all right well great to be
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back welcome to the all conspiracy podcast where we repeat false statements and help spin them into Tales of
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struggling Against The Establishment the elite and the mainstream media we will deliver to you the people the revolution
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against the powers that be unless it offends still trying to get my invite for next
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week we'll also enjoy sharing with you fantastic stories of opulence let's be neutral opulence Leisure and benevolent
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greed here we go joining me today are my co-hosts General David sacks commander of the fourth Battalion of the internet
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tweet Brigade General welcome joining us from a remote location in Moscow has there been like an
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establishment takeover of the Pod yeah every argument they make against us you're basically just conceding is true
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I know exactly from his 12th century Mediterranean Castle ill Duce welcome to moth how is the Mediterranean
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diet treating you uh blue blue and Emperor Nero calcanus ruler over podcasts paid events entrepreneurial
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universities and dental spvs emperor thank you for letting me sit in your throne today it's good to be here thank
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you Dental sbps shout out to my dentists well you say king of STDs she says PVS oh spvs Central spvs yeah
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that's the thing with certain STDs where once you're working you're going to be king for life
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[Music] Rain Man David we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
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[Music] the syndicate.com yeah thank you you've been doing you said five shows a week
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lately your voice is shot I your voice is starting to go so I asked you if you'd moderate and you thankfully said
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yes I've got the energy I missed last week I enjoyed listening to you guys with uh BG great episode sorry I
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couldn't join but let's kick it off that's funny I still haven't watched the episode that I missed you're not
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interested he's like I'm not on the show I'm not interested I've got enough time
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to participate I don't really have time to watch it the truth is sax why don't you admit to everyone that where you're
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in a show you probably watch it four or five times all right so let's kick this off
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obviously you guys recorded right before the Wagner group attempted coup or potential coup or theorized coup began
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last week so sax you kind of sent out a text saying the show is already stale because you know kind of missed that uh
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that news cycle by publishing right after it started but you recorded right before so let's do
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just a quick recap of what happened with Russia Ukraine and particularly it's Wagner
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Wagner group Rebellion last Friday the Wagner Group which is a Russian paramilitary organization led by
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Evgeni pregosian launched what seemed like an armed Insurrection against Russia Wagner had occupied portions of
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rostov vondan a city of over a million people a regional capital and headquarters of Russia's Southern
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military District before setting off towards Moscow and then abruptly stopping I think about 200 kilometers
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before reaching Moscow City at that point there was supposedly a negotiation the president of Belarus got involved
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and pregosian decided to step down Putin said I'm not going to persecute or I'm not going to prosecute you for these
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crimes he was given immunity and it was announced that all the members of the Wagner group were given the option of
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returning home or joining the Russian military and the Wagner group was going to be dissolved sax maybe you can kind
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of give us your summary of the events that took place and then we'll talk a little bit about
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the interpretation of what we think this means for the conflict in Ukraine well you're right that this Rebellion took
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place just after we dropped our last episode and so everybody both on Twitter and in the comments was dunking on me
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for my take on last week's episode that the much hyped Ukrainian counter-offensive was was not succeeding
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that it was in fact failing I think there's abundant evidence for that which hasn't changed even CNN had written an
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article basically supporting the idea that the counter-offensive was not living up to what had been promised and
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so everyone was in the comments saying that my take had basically aged like milk and this armed Rebellion or Mutiny
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by fregosian was evidence that the Russian regime was about to collapse that Russia was
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in fact on the verge of Civil War and you saw the exact same people who had oversold the counter-offensive now
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overselling this Mutiny as something that would bring down the Russian regime and and the war and of course
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that that did not happen it was certainly a highly unusual event and I've read takes now from every
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different corner of the internet about what it was and what took place you have people speculating that this is all
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staged I do not believe that I do believe that it was an Insurrection or Mutiny by progosian I think the trigger
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for it was the fact that his Wagner organization was being merged in with the ministry of defense and the regular
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Russian army and his men were all being made to sign contracts with the ministry
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of defense that would have resulted in a giant loss of income and status for pregosian simultaneously for months now
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he's been criticizing the ministry of Defense specifically the the minister of defense shoigu and the
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Chief general of the general staff gerasimov so he's been vocally critical of them and I think that this basically
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erupted into a mutiny by him where he basically tried to leverage his position like you said he marched what they now
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think are about 8 000 men which is about a quarter of Wagner into rostov on Don he then took the ministry headquarters
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and sent about three thousand of his men on a convoy to Moscow I think that although this is probably best described
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as a mutiny I think that it did have coup optionality to it I think that pagosian was seeking to find out how
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much support Putin had and who might join him and he had put out a number of statements that I think from the Russian
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regime's point of view could be described as seditious that morning and he there's a lot of
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evidence that he staged this attack on his base he claimed that there was a missile attack by the ministry of
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defense and that's what launched this March for justice and in his comments he was careful not to criticize Putin
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directly but he had a lot to say about Ministry defense and the overall conduct of the war and it was I think harshly
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critical indirectly of of Putin and I think he was looking to see who might support him
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and what happened is that on the way to Moscow during this Convoy nobody supported him in fact all the statements
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came out from the other generals including sir vegan including all the regional governors
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of members of the Duma and other important figures in Russian society and there wasn't a single person willing to
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publicly support for Goshen and that's when Putin went on TV called this basically an act of treason and a stab
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in the back and at that point I think progressions options were pretty limited and he basically took a deal
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that was brokered by lukashenko in which he would go into Exile in Belarus in exchange for basically being allowed to
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live that was basically the deal that was ultimately cut and so I think where things stand today is that although I
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think this was an embarrassment and a black eye for the Russian regime it never looks good for regime to have any
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kind of mutiny or insurrection and I think that it does raise questions that poon's now gonna have to answer to
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his various allies and supporters about how stable his regime is I think ultimately Putin has ended up in a place
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of consolidating Russian Society behind him like I said there were no power centers that supported this Mutiny they
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all rallied to Putin's defense and the people of Russia even though Ferguson is a popular figure being kind of a war
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hero from the Battle of bakmut the the Russian Society supported Putin I think he's at something like 80 percent poll
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numbers so I think where are things well like Lovato Center which is an independent polling Agency for example
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these are not the Russian regime's own numbers would you say in a poll that you don't support Putin
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well I don't know how levada Center what their methodology is but these numbers when the numbers are bad are cited by
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Western sources but there are other forms of evidence too you may have seen this video that went viral over the past
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few days of this song that's now the number one chart Buster in in Russia where it's this very patriotic Russian
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song where they're basically singing I am Russian that's sort of the main chorus Nick can you pull up the song I'd
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like to see this please coming at you 95.5 I love Russia oh my God this is some serious propaganda
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wow yeah [Music] yeah I mean that looks like a pretty good party if you look up the the lyrics to the
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song the English translation of the lyrics the gist of it is I I'm basically proud to be a Russian and I don't care
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who doesn't like it that's basically the the lyrics of it how do you get invited
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to that party I got so many jokes I'm not gonna make them I know you gotta be careful be
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careful here folks you gotta be careful here why it looks like a fun party it's a catchy song
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I mean I love to dress up and show up tell me where to show up Putin I think the point here is that Russian Society
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is United behind the state and wanting to fight this war and I think that part of the reason why Ferguson's Mutiny was
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so oversold as an imminent coup that would bring about the collapse of the Putin regime and of the Russian war
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effort and of their front line is because at least since the beginning of this war we've had this narrative that
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if we applied enough pressure to Russia that there'd be a palace Intrigue and a palace coup and that liberal forces
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inside of Russia would rise up and topple the dictator Putin and basically get them out of this war and I think
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what's happened is fairly predictable but it's the opposite of that which is the Russian people are rallying around
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the flag and rallying around Putin the war leader and they are a patriotic people just like the ukrainians and I
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think both these countries that both the Russians and the ukrainians are proud people and I think they're in a fight to
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the death and I think that both countries okay regardless as existential and we have basically stuck ourselves in
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the middle of this fight to the death between these two countries and I don't see this working out very well okay so
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look I I will make an admission I consider myself a modestly well-read person modestly well-informed I had
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never heard of the Wagner group or pregosian prior to this coup attempt last week Jay Cal had you guys heard of
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this person before and the Wagner group yeah yeah oh well maybe I'm an idiot or I'm just
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not interested I think what was so surprising was like how out of the blue the story seemed to be last week that
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there was this disagreement between this person that commanded this paramilitary
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organization who then turned around against Putin and stood up against him and marched back towards Moscow and it
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felt to me like it came a little bit out of the blue and was such like a a weird
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kind of shocking event did it feel kind of like that to you guys that there was surprising instability and the
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surprising potential Revolution happening locally I think stepping back here and just looking at the news cycle
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obviously it I don't think many people expected this this was a wild card and so people could be humble in you know
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their belief of like how much they actually understand about what's going on there
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the Russian soldiers are not in favor of this war this is a war that's very unpopular in Russia actually and for the
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Ukraine having been invaded by Russia they're fighting for their land and they're gonna they are much more
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motivated I wouldn't believe any of this propaganda but this is a bit of a raw shock test everybody on the left got on
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Twitter and said this is the end of Putin everybody's gonna rise up in the streets and they overplayed that you
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know angle of the story and then of course the right or people who are pro-russian or anti the West backing
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this war are going to take the other side Freeburg they're going to take the side of
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you know oh everybody loves Russia 80 of people are voting for this it's ridiculous to think that anybody in
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Russia is going to answer do you like Putin do you support Putin on a survey can you imagine a Putin's a
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murderous dictator who kills all of his enemies and he controls through violence
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nobody's answering a survey correctly this you know top song is complete propaganda Putin has control of the
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entire media apparatus there with this showed actually if you step back and you look at you go to the party
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though if you were invited well I mean are there going to be potential LPS there
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last week it's just a joke folks but stepping back if you look at modern day dictators they
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tend to stay in power for about three decades Putin's in his third and uh I think we're gonna see in uh the
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next 10 years Putin lose power and he's going to be out of power and when we look back on it it's going
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to be one of two causes it's going to be either cancer which you know the speculation is has had cancer and that's
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why he disappears from View because he might be getting treatment and we'll look back on us that the end
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of his power will be and his control of Russia which he controlling these controlling through violence and fear of
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violence the threat of violence is exhausting you have to be paranoid and that's why it generally doesn't last
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that long especially compared to the west where we have a democracy and people last about a half decade
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he will will look back on his end which will be in the next 10 years either through cancer or through his invasion
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of Ukraine this is the biggest blunder he's ever made and and this is a really crazy sign that somebody would actually
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attempt or even float a coup is insane he's murdered every single person who has ever even
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challenges Authority in a minor way the fact that his one of his right hand men this is one of his tight Inner Circle
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the fact that one of the people in his tight Inner Circle would actually start heading towards Moscow is insane so to
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say this wasn't a big deal and Putin's you know now Consolidated power and everybody's in the street dancing
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this is just simply not true I never said it wasn't a big deal I wasn't talking about you I was talking about
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the mids on Twitter I never mentioned your name I think that um your point J Cal at the beginning that this doesn't
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really seem to change anyone's point of view on the Outlook your point of view sounds like it's the same as it was a
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week ago sacked your point of view is probably the same as it was a week ago I think there are a couple of takeaways
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here first of all they've had polling of opinion in Russia for a long time and like I said when the
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polls go the way that the Western sources want no one questions their accuracy again I don't know exactly the
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methodology but levada Center is an independent pollster that Western Publications do trust I hear them repeat
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it over and over again and you know by their methodology which I assume hasn't changed I think Putin's popularity
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before the war is around 65 percent now they're showing it at about 83 percent Jason you may not like the war and you
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know I certainly don't like them nobody likes the war but I I think it is simply
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a fact that the Russian people have rallied around the flag and they do support this war and and Putin as the
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leader now I do think he has egg on his face here from this pagosian Uprising in
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terms of did I see this coming no I didn't have this on my bingo card I don't think anybody else did either
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however did I know who provision is certainly I mean I've been tracking progosian statements
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since around February he's been vocally criticizing the ministry of Defense specifically shoigu and jarasimov in
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increasingly insubordinate and you could argue even seditious ways I'm really kind of surprised in a way that he
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wasn't dealt with before this and I'm sure that the Kremlin is kicking itself for probably not dealing with it sooner
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but in terms of why he stole alive I think that Putin had a really tough decision to make about you quash this
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Rebellion completely which would have led to horrific images of you know violence potentially in Moscow or
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Russians and Russians killing Russians that might have actually led the the Russian front to question itself or
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collapse so I think he did the expedient thing which is he cut a deal he got lukashenko to help broker and he cut a
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deal and I think at the end of the day I think that he made the cool-headed decision that was in his and in Russian
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interest which was to avoid this to getting to the point of a bloody Insurrection okay any um any point of
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view shift for you coming out of the pregosian event of the last week on Russia Ukraine I mean I want to know how
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much he got paid to stop marching towards Moscow yeah I mean it is like I mean it must have been
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it must have been a lot not bad for a guy that was what Putin's caterer a few years ago right he started
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a catering business I spent nine years in jail this guy's life been nine years in jail it's like The Sopranos he went
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to jail for nine years for selling illegal hot dogs or something and all of a sudden I mean I got just paid billions
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of dollars to basically stop his paramilitary group from taking over one of the largest countries in the world
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it's the largest I mean nuclear Arsenal in the world yeah just so you know who this guy is I mean
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he he really is the street Thug that Putin is always accused of being he was a street dog he did go to jail
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he was one of these guys who came up in Russia as a businessman when to be a businessman you had to be so tough
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businessmen were getting murdered left and right by gangsters you almost had to be a gangster yourself apparently he
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made some money in the supermarket chain business and that led him to create a catering business which brought him to
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Putin's attention and he started catering for the Kremlin he's sometimes called Putin's Chef I don't think he was
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a chef himself he was the guy who owned he owned the business and then from there he was given the license to create
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this PMC this private uh military corporation Bogner group he wasn't the only founder
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of it he had a co-founder who was actually the military man behind it but Wagner became this this group of
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mercenaries who do all sorts of business in Africa mainly where they are working
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on behalf of governments there to protect mineral resources or oil wells all sorts of things a Sopranos
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Captain who would he be like Phil leotardo just like 20 years in jail comes out I think it's sort of like John
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Gotti going against Michael Corleone yeah I think that Putin is sort of the very cold right rational guy with
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everything in his head who's very calculated it doesn't reveal much right more like a Michael Corleone whereas I
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think that is emotional erratic he's been saying these statements for months here which I don't see how they lose
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constantly Loose Cannon and the crazy thing though is is that what you saw on Twitter and social media was
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unrestrained Glee really delirium over the idea that pagosian my topple Putin and become the custodian of Russia's
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thousands of nuclear weapons yeah and you know so my comment on this whole thing is be careful what you wish for
00:20:27
why in the world would Americans want that we'd be jumping out of the frying pan Into the Fire you know I've been
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saying since the beginning of the war that this fantasy that Putin is going to be toppled by a palace goo and you're
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getting a replacement with navalny or something like that we're going to get Gorbachev 2.0 I said that was always
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unrealistic and what you're much more likely to end up with is an even worse dictator or possible or a hardliner and
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I think that is what would happen if Ferguson had taken over I think would have been much worse for the West the
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final point is what's the takeaway from here is I think this is going to put more pressure on Putin to conduct the
00:21:02
war in a more violent way I I know that people already think that the war is horrible and violent but Putin has been
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criticized by hardliners on his right for basically making the war a special military operation instead of an all-out
00:21:15
war and progosian I think expected to find more support among the sort of ultra nationalists in Russia and among
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the military who have been critical of Putin for waging the war in what they consider to be too half-hearted or an
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incomplete way they would like to see this declared to be a war they would like to see the full mobilization of
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Russian society and this is the problem that I see now is that I think Putin already knew but this has to underscore
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for him that this war is existential for him personally if he loses it's the end
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of not only his regime but probably his life in Russia and I think he's going to
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do whatever it takes to win this war and I think you could see now over the next
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few months a full mobilization in Russia and I think that this could lead us to the next point of escalation in this war
00:22:01
that is if this Ukrainian counteroffensive actually is successful on some level right now it is it is not
00:22:06
succeeding so there's no reason there's no reason for Putin to do that but if if
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this counter offensive succeeds you will see the next level of escalation the fact you did a great job stringing six
00:22:15
points together I think my key takeaway is which is now 18 points you've made so
00:22:21
you can retire for the rest of the show my key takeaway from your series of statements however
00:22:26
is an important one which is to watch the potential escalation driven by Putin here
00:22:31
any wrap up otherwise I'm going to move forward you know go ahead thinking about this
00:22:36
like there's a famous Sun Tzu quote the Supreme Art of War is to subdue the enemy without fighting
00:22:43
this is a big mistake and we need to make sure that we don't get into a war with Taiwan and China and China over
00:22:51
Taiwan so okay we have to avoid these things and then that's what and I are in alignment Sun Tzu calacanus we heard it
00:22:57
here first let's uh move forward with peace I can only hope that the conflict ends soon as I've always said I realized
00:23:05
over the last week how little I know about the Russian military conflict with Ukraine and I appreciate
00:23:12
Sexes contributions super helpful I went to Cal UC Berkeley 1997 fall in 97 and it was the last year
00:23:22
that Cal had affirmative action Admissions and I remember at that time there was a big case a guy named Baki
00:23:30
was rejected by the University of California Davis Medical School and he alleged reverse discrimination in 1974
00:23:36
and sued the University of California and eventually it became a landmark U.S Supreme Court case Regents of the
00:23:43
University of California versus Baki and in 1995 the UC Regents voted to eliminate affirmative action
00:23:50
so the year that I was at Cal I think was the last year of affirmative action Admissions and it's obviously been a
00:23:57
pretty hot topic here in California for the past you know 25 uh 30 years this morning the Supreme Court ruled on
00:24:08
two separate cases regarding using race as an admissions criteria in college admissions and the votes were six to
00:24:17
three against affirmative action in the University of North Carolina case in six
00:24:21
to two against affirmative action in the Harvard case katanji Brown Jackson recused herself
00:24:26
because she previously served on Harvard's Board of overseers all the conservative as their you know kind of
00:24:32
characterized judges voted to strike down affirmative action and all the as their characterized liberal judges voted
00:24:38
to keep it both of these cases were filed in 2014 by a group called students for fair admissions
00:24:43
and effectively the court said that at Harvard at UNC the schools were systematically discriminating against
00:24:51
Asian Americans in violation of civil rights laws by using uh their race as a as a system for for profiling excluding
00:24:59
and trying to be more inclusive of a more diverse and racially diverse set of applicants so tomorrow I'd love
00:25:07
your read I guess on the surprise or this was an accept expected case I think Saxon I mentioned this before but I
00:25:15
think we both expected this to happen I think it's probably important to maybe set up a more practical explainer
00:25:26
Friedberg so Nick if you want to just throw up that image that I just sent you we can sort
00:25:32
of explain the Genesis of the lawsuit so what you can see here is admit rates into Harvard
00:25:42
by race ethnicity but also by academic decile yeah and so what it basically shows in a
00:25:49
nutshell is an African-American student in the 40th percentile of the academic index is actually more likely to get in
00:25:58
than an Asian student at the 100th percentile and so that at the core is sort of sorry
00:26:04
that means that means that the Asian American student had better scores than 99 of other applicants and still didn't get
00:26:15
in right right so you have to go back I think to 2003 when essentially what the Supreme Court
00:26:25
said is like look we're going to allow this affirmative action stuff to last roughly for another 25 years
00:26:32
but by that point we expect that the work that needed to be done will have been done again this is them saying this
00:26:39
not me and so I think what today does is actually quite important not just for what it
00:26:47
means for universities but also what it means for private Enterprises so just to take a second on
00:26:53
this I think what happens today is the pretty obvious stuff which is that you have to change University
00:27:00
applications you have to change all of the admissions profiling all of the stuff that you would normally do
00:27:08
you probably I'm not even sure if you can even have a box where you can declare race maybe you can or cannot I
00:27:13
don't even know but all of that changes today so then the question is well what's the
00:27:18
first order derivative what changes next and I called someone who's a pretty well
00:27:23
known constitutional supreme court lawyer on this and The Next Step is probably going to be around Athletics
00:27:33
based and legacy-based admissions so Athletics based admissions are pretty obvious which is you don't really have
00:27:39
great grades but you're really stupendous at a sport that's important to that school
00:27:46
so then they let you in because they want to compete inside sport for whatever reason
00:27:51
the Legacy one is even more prickly which is not you're kind of a dummy but your parents are rich and or went to the
00:27:57
school before and so then they let you in as well and his thought on this is that those things
00:28:07
will go away because if you can't use race-based admissions to kind of balance the scales then it'll become pretty
00:28:16
quick where somebody launches a legacy-based lawsuit or an athletic based bias lawsuit and wins that as well
00:28:23
so that's the first order derivative so you know the thought are those because those aren't constitutionally
00:28:31
protected whereas equality based on race but it becomes a huge headache for these
00:28:36
schools right and so you're going to be fighting these admission standards constantly
00:28:42
changing and so if you're not going to let you know a bunch of poor minority black and brown
00:28:48
kids in but you're letting in the Sons and Daughters of Rich important people I think that that's going to paint that
00:28:56
school in a very bad light so I think that's so important white typically white typically white although one would
00:29:03
say the great thing over the last couple of decades is there have been a lot of minorities that have gotten into these
00:29:09
very elite schools which means this their kids would be the first generation that's eligible for legacy but you're
00:29:15
gonna wipe that away so I think from a just a social stigma perspective and I have a solution for this which I'll get
00:29:22
to at the end for those people but so I think that's the first order derivative the second order derivative is now what
00:29:27
lawsuits get launched and what are the implications for private companies right so right now this affects any
00:29:34
institution that receives Federal funding and that includes all the universities so there's no private or
00:29:39
public university really except for a handful that don't take this money so they'll all have to do this
00:29:44
but the really important question after that will be what happens to companies like apple or Facebook or Exxon who have
00:29:52
race-based programs to try to attract African-American Engineers or Hispanic chemists whatever whatever the program
00:30:02
is that you want to come up with will those get challenged and will those companies have to change and my friends
00:30:10
thoughts on that were that yes that those would also change and that's going to have a really important impact on
00:30:16
private Enterprise and how they approach this stuff and how Dei stuff works and frankly Downstream how ESG works because
00:30:23
all these ESG check boxes now some of them will actually become illegal right so I think the importance of decision
00:30:30
can't be really understated it's going to the changes will be slow and then they'll be fast they'll first touch
00:30:38
higher ed but then I think they'll touch private Enterprise and so I think it was
00:30:41
a it was a very important decision in America that just happened what is what is the right ethics and and values
00:30:51
I mean what do you guys I guess we could just do this around the table Jacob maybe you kick it off
00:30:56
should we I mean from your point of view do you think that values should include
00:31:02
racial diversity in Admissions and universities yeah this is like the ultimate or is the values about equality
00:31:10
of opportunity for everyone regardless of race right you're asking the exact right question I think that's the
00:31:17
world's greatest moderator but yeah doing a solid job so far and this creates a lot of cognitive dissonance
00:31:22
for people right because you you really want to believe that the world is a meritocracy
00:31:28
and uh you know if you were to take other Pursuits in the world you'd never say like we should let race gender
00:31:36
age affect people's performance in the 100 yard dash or their their compensation at a company right all of
00:31:43
that should be based on achievement and so there is a question on what achievements should be taken into
00:31:50
account when you apply to a school and it's pretty obvious the Legacy thing you know is
00:31:57
you know a back door into these schools but we want to feel like we're also making progress because listen the world
00:32:04
has been unfair the world was built on slavery and our country has you know it's only 150 years
00:32:12
past that and Civil Rights Act was what 1964 or 65 like we've we've we really want to see everybody achieve here so I
00:32:20
think you have to pause for a second and say well if the goal is you want to see
00:32:25
you know black Americans perform better and I think that's the the underlying concern here
00:32:33
and it is based on the legacy of America well how do you do that and I think we're looking way too far down in the
00:32:41
educational pipeline the solution here is really Child Care the solution here is Nursery schools
00:32:46
pre-k elementary school education and those things need competition and that's where
00:32:51
people fall behind to be looking at this at the end of the academic journey is I
00:32:56
think crazy so you know when I'm president I'm going to have 365 day a year you know child care and
00:33:05
Pre-K and that's where we should if we really want to try to make up for some wrongs in the history of this country
00:33:11
and try to have better outcomes we need competition in schools which means probably breaking some of
00:33:16
these unions and giving people vouchers and choice and then we have to invest more in the earliest stages of Education
00:33:23
and I think everybody wants to see a better system here Dei to chamat's point is
00:33:30
it is illegal to hire people based on race gender any of those criteria obviously and the Dai programs are
00:33:38
trying to fill more applicants so their goal typically in the way they don't break the law is to just try to in their
00:33:46
best cases find more applicants and but even that does feel like there's many times in life when
00:33:56
um people will say things in Corporate America like we have too many white guys in this these positions we need we
00:34:02
cannot hire another white guy so the reality of Dei that I've seen up close and personal when I was at AOL I've told
00:34:08
the story before somebody said to me there's no way for us to make you an EVP you have to stay
00:34:14
at SVP and I said why is that like I'm doing all this EVP level work and they said because you're a white guy
00:34:19
and the entire company is white guys at EVP and we cannot add another white guy there but we'll just give you the same
00:34:25
bonus compensation so don't worry about it and so there's all kinds of games being
00:34:29
played here but I think it's great that we're having this conversation right it's a hard conversation for America to
00:34:33
have for me the I've talked about this in the past I've always had concern when we make the shift away from
00:34:44
equality of opportunity to a quality of outcome because we all have this objective that
00:34:49
we want to see everyone have equal rights to success in some way in the United States the question is at what
00:34:57
point do you move Beyond opportunity where everyone is given an equal opportunity in this country
00:35:04
to invest themselves in transforming their own lives versus a quality of outcome where regardless of
00:35:13
how much you do how much effort or your trials you were given the same as everyone else and that ends up looking a
00:35:21
lot like socialism and it's very concerning because I think it limits progress and opportunity for everyone
00:35:26
the real challenge with this particular topic is college admissions about outcome or is about opportunity
00:35:34
it's outcome in the sense that you spend 12 years going to elementary school and
00:35:39
high school and working hard to get yourself into college so it's the outcome of all of that
00:35:44
effort and some people aren't given the opportunity to have success during those
00:35:49
12 years and you know and it is an outcome what do you think we should do and it's an opportunity
00:35:56
because it's about going to college because without having a great College cycle you may have a more tougher time
00:36:00
getting into a into the workforce so it that is why it's a hard value question for me I I don't have a great answer on
00:36:06
this but I'm just pointing out it's a lot like the abortion argument where both sides have some
00:36:14
value-oriented point of view that feels like it's negating the other person's point of view
00:36:19
but at the end of the day they're both coming from either this is an opportunity or it's an outcome decision
00:36:24
and that's what makes it so challenging the National Bureau of economic research
00:36:27
did a study in 2019 that they published and what they found was that 43 so 4 3 43 of white students admitted to Harvard
00:36:38
were athletes or Legacy students or children of faculty and staff or had a relative that
00:36:48
were donors to the school 43 wait it's rigged and then they found on top of that that 75 of those white
00:36:56
students admitted from those four categories would have been rejected if they had been treated as a normal
00:37:02
applicant so I think for all the people that are looking at all the black and brown kids that may not get into a place
00:37:09
like Harvard if you don't look at these other categories it is a it's a bit of a gross Injustice
00:37:16
quite honestly so I think that these institutions have to evolve and if you're going to be forced to be
00:37:21
meritocratic then actually be meritocratic and by the way I actually am fine with legacies and donors but I
00:37:28
think what should happen is you should just publish a rate card and you should make it hyper transparent and so I love
00:37:34
it for the rich guy who's got an idiot son or daughter let's just be upfront and honest with everybody it costs 50
00:37:40
million dollars to get into Stanford it costs 80 million dollars to get into Harvard we all know these numbers so we
00:37:46
should just publish them you should pay the price and be done with it and for Harvard and Stanford and Yale and all
00:37:52
these schools having an extra 10 or 20 dummies but an extra two or three billion may be a
00:37:57
reasonable trade-off but at least it would be transparent and fair right this is an important free market question as
00:38:03
well because these are private institutions they're privately funded not if they take federal dollars or not
00:38:08
agreed yes but if they take federal dollars they're not and then it becomes a government processing it's government
00:38:13
influence it's a state school all those is there a separate category here just like country clubs or any private
00:38:20
membership club where the members of the club get to decide who they want to admit to the club and is that
00:38:26
Un-American and should the Supreme Court and should our Constitution have a role
00:38:30
in defining how private institutions make decisions about who gets it no Harvard could absolutely return all the
00:38:36
federal funding the billions of dollars a year they get that's totally reasonable then they even decide to just
00:38:40
focus on Legacy admits that's totally reasonable it's within their rights sacks like we got it I know that I know
00:38:48
that you used up your quote your speaking quota already well yeah I didn't want to I didn't want to butt in
00:38:52
it give him four on my points you get four of Jake house minutes go ahead so yeah two points I guess so on the
00:39:01
Legacy thing I agree with jamas that we should get rid of it it's not meritocratic I think that if they did
00:39:07
publish a rate card that would be more honest but they would be too embarrassed and ashamed to do that but I think
00:39:12
making that argument exposes the hypocrisy of it I've already told my kids I'm not
00:39:16
helping them get into college so they're going to do it on their own and so look
00:39:20
I think by the way that's the best gift you can give kids yeah that that perspective sorry go ahead sex so that's
00:39:27
that's Point number one fully agreed on on the Legacy thing with respect to the decision itself that I'm sorry can I
00:39:32
just clarify that do you believe that the Legacy thing should be like in federal law I mean is that a government
00:39:38
thing or do you think that that's how those institutions should behave because those are different I mean I'm asking
00:39:44
are you suggesting that the law should be involved that the government should be involved I don't know if it's a legal
00:39:48
thing because I don't know how to implement that law but um I think it's something they should stop doing one way
00:39:52
or another maybe it should be a law but I think it should stop so I think that's
00:39:55
important Legacy thing for privacy for private membership so just let me just double click on that do you think that
00:40:02
should extend to private membership clubs like country clubs as well that they shouldn't be allowed to decide who
00:40:06
they let in and don't let in what makes it different that it's Harvard is it because it's education versus any other
00:40:11
private membership because it takes Federal funding for some person to be able to get into a
00:40:20
school they don't deserve to get into just because their parent went there or just because their parents wrote a check
00:40:26
that's unreasonable and if they don't take Federal funding these schools take so much Federal funding that they're
00:40:31
quasi-public institutions even the private ones so that's the distinction that's the distinction for you just to
00:40:36
be clear yeah and also there is a strong meritocracy opportunity argument on this
00:40:43
and I think it's why that whole parents College admissions Scandal was was such a big deal is that for a lot of people
00:40:50
in this country the ability to have your kids Advance themselves by being the first to get into college or going to
00:40:57
college or going to a better college that is a big part of creating opportunity in this country so for
00:41:02
people to try and defraud that I think create a huge backlash so look I think that the Legacy thing just needs to end
00:41:10
one way or another I don't know exactly what the right legal implementation is I have two questions
00:41:17
for the panel number one should you be able to say by geography Hey listen we're Harvard over Stanford we want to
00:41:23
have a representation of people from around the world so we're gonna you know have the top three students from each
00:41:29
country or you know or by population however you do it you know mathematically come in so a little bit of geography
00:41:37
because I did hear from one of these coaches that cost like six figures to get your kids into the college they said
00:41:43
the best thing you can do is like move to Kentucky you know and then Harvard and Stafford
00:41:50
are looking to get a certain number of students from each state I don't know how true that is but they said that's
00:41:54
like one of the the top ways to do it and then well do you remember Jason just to build on your point I don't know if
00:41:58
you guys remember but a few years ago the the in fashion thing to do was to learn to play squash and I remember all
00:42:05
these parents telling me that and they had kids that were older than my kids and they were they were hiring full-time
00:42:11
squash coaches because apparently squash was like yeah it was all angle shots yeah I think like stop with the angle
00:42:19
shooting guys yes the gun should go off you should run the race and your time is
00:42:24
your time and you should go to whatever the best school is that you deserve to get into based on your academic ability
00:42:29
now going back the big problem and I think Jason you really nailed it on the head
00:42:35
trying to fix it with affirmative action at the University is still quite unfair in the sense that
00:42:42
there are so many black and brown kids I think with tons of potential that don't
00:42:45
even get there and so the real question is what are you doing at the grade school and at the
00:42:50
high school and at the preschool so that you actually get more of these kids to the starting line because fixing
00:42:57
it when they're 18 I think is a little too late yeah right fixing it for 300 three four and five years old that's
00:43:05
when they deserve and need all the help in the world to yourself that's why we need school choice we need Charter
00:43:10
Schools we need to break the Monopoly that the unions have over the schools running it running for their own benefit
00:43:16
if you Define institutional racism as conditions that trap people on conditions of poverty across Generations
00:43:23
I'd say the abysmal quality of our public schools are number one number one two and three and the reason is because
00:43:30
there's no competition and the unions run it for their own benefit how long do they shut down these schools for in
00:43:35
California because they didn't want to work because they're afraid don't know don't see the c word we just got a label
00:43:41
enabled for the benefit of kids and it wasn't even medically necessary that was a
00:43:48
benefit they saw for themselves yeah Jacob you come you come from a family yep that were members of unions because
00:43:55
they worked for fire for police yeah um is that right yeah we speak negatively about the effects of
00:44:02
the teachers unions on our public education system and it I I think it's absolutely correct
00:44:08
but how do you share the point of view from the other side if you're a teacher and you're a member of the union and the
00:44:14
union takes care of you what's the argument yeah sure to say this Union is damaging public education and the
00:44:22
teacher that's working in the union and a member of the union says this is necessary for my livelihood to protect
00:44:27
me for my benefit help us share the point of view because we all have the strongly held point of
00:44:33
view that the unions are destroying and eroding public education people have the right
00:44:39
to form unions but what we all do is we are forced to be consumers of one educational product
00:44:46
because of how we pay taxes we pay taxes in yeah I think in my in California we each pay sixteen thousand dollars into
00:44:52
the educational system and so if you're a parent you should get that 16k back and be able to choose what you do with
00:44:58
it so there's competition so the unions can have protection but there still should be competition for these services
00:45:04
and I I think there are two separate issues yeah there's one other thing which is
00:45:11
I just want to give a shout out to a non-profit that I support called smash Academy smash.org it's done by Mitch and
00:45:18
Freda Kapoor the Mitch Kapoor founded Lotus one two three if you're uh under the age of 40 you might not know
00:45:27
and what they do is they realize that a lot of the students who do get into good
00:45:31
colleges it turns out a lot of the black and brown students they get accepted and
00:45:35
they're behind in math and so what smash has done is they have a three-year program
00:45:40
and I go speak at it sometimes and I donate money to it and I encourage you to do the same they have this intensive
00:45:46
summer program so before you go to college tomorrow if you were one of those students
00:45:51
you know you might get into college and then they drop out or even worse they switch from a stem degree to a non-stem
00:45:58
degree because they're two years behind on stem or a year behind on stem and so the Kapoor has found this like little
00:46:05
opportunity to kind of catch people up and I think that's what we have to do we have to address this much earlier and
00:46:11
not put a Band-Aid on it yeah in the system the ivy league system um you know needs to well it's not
00:46:19
societies right I'm sure it's not just pick on Harvard but it's like it's like the elite institutions which we talk
00:46:24
about institutions okay all institutions that receive federal funding they need to take a deep look in the mirror and
00:46:29
say are we doing the best thing for society the second question I had for the panel was well I'm not getting the
00:46:34
feeling by the way but yeah but our Pure academics the best way to accept people
00:46:39
into a college or should there be some blend of it like putting Sports aside because that's an obvious one but you
00:46:45
know is there's academics but then there's also creativity you know if you you might be terrible on your SATs test
00:46:51
and you might be an incredible virtuoso pianist so I think what is the criteria and making that criteria fair is what we
00:46:58
all want and it feels tremendously unfair my point of view is if the government is funding these schools then
00:47:06
the government certainly has to have a point of view on what's the reasonable model for admissions the government's
00:47:13
not funding the schools I Love A diversity in a Marketplace I love having different
00:47:19
schools having different admissions criteria that allow different people to find their path
00:47:25
through different institutions to your point Juilliard does not care perhaps as much what you did on you know your sat
00:47:34
and chemistry and art schools do not care as much how well you did in math and stem schools
00:47:43
don't care whether or not you want an art competition and I think that that's the important thing that we need to
00:47:48
preserve we need to preserve optionality for institutions to Define what sorts of
00:47:54
individuals they want to try and recruit and progress and train and get ready for
00:47:59
the workforce and the path in life that they then choose versus trying to create
00:48:03
a cookie cutter model for what the government says it's fair for everyone and as much as we can take Government
00:48:09
funding out of these institutions and out of these systems and give them the freedom to set their own admissions
00:48:14
criteria and create differential Educational Systems I think that's going to create the best diversity of a
00:48:21
Workforce and I'm I would kind of be more excited about that sort of an Institutional system than one that is
00:48:29
standardized by the government you know why that'll never happen because the profit motive of these
00:48:35
universities is really to be Shadow organizations for their endowments and the thing with endowments is that
00:48:42
the people that work there very much want to get paid and behave like profit generating organizations and I think
00:48:52
the issue is that if their sole job was to really fund the operational expenses of the University
00:49:02
then the endowments would be run very differently right like take again I just looked up on the internet but Harvard
00:49:08
has about the operating expenses are roughly five and a half billion dollars a year
00:49:14
but the revenues are about five and a half billion dollars a year right so if instead you had to basically fund you
00:49:20
know there was essentially no Revenue per se right there's there is very little tuition and you didn't take any
00:49:25
federal funding you'd have to come up with five billion dollars a year so you just basically take that as a draw
00:49:32
from your endowment the endowment would be run very differently it would be a don't lose money endowment
00:49:38
that would generate very low Vol returns I think the problem with that is that that's not how the
00:49:45
endowment at Harvard works they wouldn't necessarily make risk seeking investments in things like
00:49:51
private equity and hedge funds and Venture Capital into the extent they did they would just make much much fewer
00:49:55
much much smaller or both so I think what you're saying could be possible but the problem are probably the
00:50:03
endowments at these universities okay well 53 billion dollars moving Harvard's endowment now so yeah it would be ten
00:50:10
percent can anyone tell me who the largest real estate owner is in San Francisco
00:50:14
you're not working on the internet oh no I know I know it's that Art Institute The Academy of Art University I knew
00:50:21
this because they uh kept buying things and using them I think she used all the profit over the years to buy more real
00:50:28
estate and she accumulated the largest real estate portfolio yeah yeah yeah sorry who is she the founder I forgot
00:50:34
her name this is a for-profit university or a private or I mean a non-profit University yeah there's a lot of artists
00:50:41
that come out of Academy Art and they work in a lot of different Industries including industrial design including
00:50:46
animation is what I'm saying is it like RISD or is it like actually an art school oh no it's a great art school
00:50:52
yeah Academy of Art anyway let's keep going so look speaking of stem making a big pivot away from art
00:51:01
to AI a couple big news items you know the AI frenzy continues here in Silicon Valley all the way from early to growth
00:51:12
stage funding through to M A events we saw this week data Brits which is a privately held data infrastructure
00:51:20
company announced that they were acquiring Mosaic ml for 1.3 billion dollars that headline number is based on
00:51:27
a cash and stock purchase price where the value of the stock that was being used to acquire Mosaic ml
00:51:35
was based off of the last round's valuation for data bricks which was 38 billion dollars from a fundraising that
00:51:41
they did in 2021 so arguably the valuation should be lower and the overall purchase price could be
00:51:45
considered lower but that's besides the point Mosaic ml as you guys may remember
00:51:50
is a company I mentioned a number of episodes ago led by the founder of Nirvana which was
00:51:57
an early AI business that was acquired by Intel and then he started Mosaic ML and he offers
00:52:04
open source models and I shared the performance data of their most recent announcement on the show
00:52:10
a few weeks ago you know there's rumors I don't have any confirmed reports but there's rumors
00:52:16
that Mosaic ml saw their ARR grow from 1 million to 20 million dollars since January there was
00:52:23
other rumors that said they were only at 6 million of Revenue regardless databricks is paying a pretty hefty
00:52:28
premium and I think it begs the question what do data infrastructure database companies end up looking like in the
00:52:35
future if AI has to become part of the core infrastructure of every Enterprise and this is creating a big shift so Saks
00:52:42
as our Enterprise software investor expert maybe you can share with us what this means for the sector does
00:52:50
this buoy excitement for AI infrastructure startups does this change the investing landscape is it just
00:52:59
reinforcing what folks are already doing I think it's a reinforcement I mean the
00:53:04
space is probably the hottest Spate where you're talking about like AI infrastructure for Enterprises I think
00:53:08
it's probably the hottest space right now in in Venture Land we actually looked at this deal we had a small
00:53:14
allocation in our next round they had a term sheet for a series B emergence was actually an elite it and
00:53:21
this is Mosaic ml yeah yeah I don't know if I'm supposed to be telling you all this but yeah
00:53:29
it's not great this is why people see it in breaking news that a term sheet from
00:53:35
emergence to raise 50 million at 400 posts wow and we yeah and we were gonna have a small allocation in that and as I
00:53:43
recall the valuation was somewhere around 30 to 35 times ARR which actually is not that
00:53:50
insane for a very fast scoring company in a hot space so that implies about 10 million of ARR I don't remember the
00:53:57
exact figure but I think that's sort of the ballpark but growing very very quickly I mean up from like one or two
00:54:03
at the beginning of the year right so I actually understand why someone would want to acquire or invest in this
00:54:11
company like I said I think we wanted to invest and while we were sort of you know trying our best you didn't say
00:54:17
anything when I talked about him on the show a few weeks ago you were just sitting there mum's a word or actually I
00:54:21
knew that this deal was was basically in the works because the founder called us
00:54:26
up and he had already promised us a small allocation around Naveen did and he called up and said
00:54:31
actually I've got this deal so we're putting the round on hold and so I didn't think I should say anything
00:54:37
because obviously it was still ongoing but yeah we knew about this deal that was kind of coming down the pipe I
00:54:44
didn't know for sure that it would happen but but yeah we we heard it was in the ballpark of this like 1.2 1.3
00:54:49
billion dollar number which like you said because databricks is a private stock maybe it's only
00:54:55
10 or 750 or something like that who knows it's still a great deal but you know a lot of people are saying it's a
00:55:00
crazy deal I don't think it's a crazy deal because before this happened after Naveen signed the term sheet for the
00:55:07
series B an investor came over the top to invest at a 700 million dollar valuation wow so people were kind of
00:55:14
going crazy now I don't think that's necessarily a rational Behavior I think that's more of evidence of a Mania going
00:55:21
on but I think that what he got offered is obviously a fantastic deal and I think what it's evidence of is that
00:55:27
these big Enterprise infra companies are going to try and build an end-to-end tool chain here and I think Mosaic ml
00:55:35
had a very very important part of the tool set which is training up these models basically maximizing GPU
00:55:43
efficiency because gpus are basically the scarce item right now we have a GPU shortage and it's probably not going to
00:55:49
get better for a year or two if that so this is a very important part of the of the stack and I think it's probably a
00:55:57
smart acquisition for both yeah I mean remember snow snowflake which competes with data breaks also acquired Neva
00:56:04
which was founded by one of my colleagues a guy I work with uh and a new really great guy sweetheart for 150
00:56:10
million dollars last month that deal was announced and the pattern recognition that seems to emerge here is that if
00:56:16
you're in the data infrastructure business it seems like it's becoming critical to level up that it's not just
00:56:23
about storing and moving and manipulating data but the interpretation of data through models and the tooling
00:56:31
to build those models becomes a critical component think of all of these toolkits
00:56:36
that these software companies have to provide to their by software companies and it's a big leveling up that's
00:56:40
necessary which seems to me there's other companies out there like them that are also going to need to strap on tools
00:56:47
like this to make themselves competitive in this marketscape which means that there are
00:56:52
more Acquisitions still to come yeah Jacob you guys agree or have a different point of view looking at it it's a it's
00:57:00
a big number the headline number but I agree with Saks that the actual numbers half the number so if it was you know if
00:57:05
you look at the number of Engineers they had based on LinkedIn data and pitchbook
00:57:09
data probably 60 70 employees 80 employees and then 40 50 of them are Engineers so that puts it at 30 million
00:57:16
dollars per engineer and that's one way to look at these acquisitions and I think you know probably three to
00:57:25
ten million dollars per engineer for like really high-end Engineers is more the going price but if this is half that
00:57:31
amount because they bought it with Monopoly money in other words they're 2021 price for their company it's great
00:57:37
and then they get nailed it um Freeburg what's happening is this layer of uh natural language on top
00:57:45
of any service whether it's something as simple as Yelp or something as complicated as a giant financial company
00:57:53
with tons of transaction data being able to talk to it and understand it and then
00:57:59
have your machine learning team build tools so business owners don't have to hire data scientists the actual Business
00:58:06
Leaders can talk to the data and get back answers or just say hey tell me about our customers how have they
00:58:13
changed over the year and then hey that's pretty interesting tell me more about our customers and you know how are
00:58:19
they reacting to these three new products and you will get back in intelligence that previously was unable
00:58:29
to be accessed and so I was uh I was just at Sequoia yesterday with uh or two days ago with the latest seven graduates
00:58:38
from our accelerator we bring them to meet with sax and his team and bring them to meet with Sequoia and when we
00:58:43
were at Sequoia I realized that of the seven companies four of them would not have been
00:58:49
possible before these machine learning apis were available and open AI is but one there are now in the companies I'm
00:58:57
talking to they're they're trialing Freeburg on average six seven eight language models before they pick one and
00:59:03
they're not picking open AI every time putting that aside these businesses were not possible before this technology was
00:59:10
introduced and available via API in the last six to 12 months and I think there's a bunch of
00:59:15
businesses that economically would not work that now work I can give one example
00:59:22
there are countless meetings that are recorded over uh Zoom right think like a local school board
00:59:30
well nobody could ever make a database of all the discussions going on at local school boards and then analyze all that
00:59:37
but now because all of those are saved uh on zoom and they occur on zoom and they're available for public record you
00:59:44
can ingest every single one of those and then build a Bloomberg terminal of every
00:59:48
discussion happening at every school board everywhere in the United States and do that with chat GPT or any of the
00:59:56
language models and then get really great insights from it that would be too costly to transcribe at you know a
01:00:02
hundred dollars every hour to a normalize let alone to analyze and so I'm looking at
01:00:09
businesses as an investor what I'm looking at right now is businesses that were previously not economically viable
01:00:16
before this technology and then that are now economically viable if that makes sense and um I'm just looking at each
01:00:23
company under that lens right now and I'm finding a lot of interesting startups they seem to have that in
01:00:28
common similar news supporting this very quick Evolution further up the value stack so we were just talking about
01:00:36
these companies that are providing effectively tooling as infrastructure a little bit more up the value stack is
01:00:44
inflection AI which was started by Mustafa Suleiman and Reed Hoffman uh who was a co-founder while mistafa was
01:00:52
working with him as a Venture partner at Greylock but Mustafa as you guys know was the co-founder of
01:01:00
deepmind which Google bought for 400 million dollars really created the core of Google's AI capability and is
01:01:06
considered one of the kind of preeminent thought leaders and entrepreneurs built
01:01:10
that has built in this space he started inflection and the business just announced today
01:01:16
that they've just closed a 1.3 billion dollar funding round LED by Microsoft Reed Hoffman Bill Gates Eric Schmidt
01:01:22
Nvidia uh with an intention of building the largest AI cluster in the world 22 000 Nvidia h100s as part of
01:01:31
the build out but I think you've shared chamoth historically that these big funding rounds for these AI businesses
01:01:37
that haven't necessarily been launched the product yet don't make sense is this still you know
01:01:43
kind of reinforce your point and you know what's your read on on the inflection funding well the list price
01:01:50
of an h100 is about 30 odd thousand but the street price so it's very hard to get it so if you go to the if you go to
01:01:56
like eBay and try to buy an h100 it's like 40 or 45 000. so if you have a 22 000 cluster of
01:02:04
h100s that's about 900 million dollars of capex just that and then you know all the sundry stuff
01:02:12
around it call it roughly plus or minus a billion dollars and so of the one and a half billion
01:02:19
they've raised let's say a billion goes into building this 22 000 node cluster you have 500 million for SG a and so
01:02:27
what that leaves behind is basically two and a half billion of Enterprise value for their chatbot
01:02:33
so I don't know I mean I've never used Pi has anybody any of you guys used it do you guys know if it's good Jason I'm
01:02:40
sure you've experimented with it have you experimented with it or not really which one
01:02:43
pie that's what they're that's what their chat bot is called pipe yeah I think it's like api.com or something I think I
01:02:52
did try it once and it was not memorable Oh you mean po no not po no no no no personal one where you talk to it and I
01:03:04
say hey how are you doing and their concept is like you have this one relationship so it's like one chat
01:03:09
thread it's not kind of how I like to work with the I use threads and I share threads with my team so I'm not a fan of
01:03:16
this like you have one relationship with one assistant I think the thing is it's
01:03:19
interesting to note that very rarely when you invest money in the billions of dollars
01:03:26
does the capex or purchase of one specific form of equipment take up literally 25 of the Enterprise Value that's
01:03:36
atypical at least for a startup if you're if you're buying a fixed plant of a slow cash flow generating business
01:03:43
then maybe you know a bunch of that has some value so that's what stood out to me and all of these things Freeburg is
01:03:49
again increasingly this is all just a pass through to Nvidia it's probably in some ways a pass
01:03:57
through to the big cloud providers so whenever I see a chip maker and a cloud provider come together to put in a lot
01:04:02
of money it's essentially round-tripping cash they're giving the money which then
01:04:06
they use to buy their services and then you know you just you're just pumping Revenue so I hope it works wishing the
01:04:13
best but you know that's the that's what we just talked about where the infrastructure companies that are
01:04:18
increasingly looking like more commodity service providers if they don't up level with AI
01:04:25
tooling acquiring Mosaic ML and acquiring Neva do you think that that's an indication
01:04:34
of more emana to come and if so doesn't that justify The increased funding The increased valuation and the activity
01:04:43
that we're seeing in the early stage with some of these businesses I think for sure there's going to be more M A
01:04:47
and I think the valuations will be high not because these companies have a lot of Revenue yet but because it's very
01:04:52
strategic for these big infra companies to assemble the end to end tool chain I think we should explain to
01:04:58
folks what that means enterprise software companies provide software to businesses that are not traditionally
01:05:04
technology companies they also provide software to other businesses to help them build new tools to help them build
01:05:10
out their business so an Enterprise software company can sell to United Airlines or consult a Visa or consult a
01:05:15
Ford and that software can then be used by that company to build tools that are powered by the database or powered by
01:05:23
the data analytics or increasingly powered by AI tools and so they can build AI applications and AI
01:05:30
capabilities into their business whether it's United Airlines or Expedia or Visa
01:05:35
or whomever and that's why this these companies are so critical in terms of enabling the transformation of
01:05:41
Industries with AI tooling and and why you know getting AI tooling into their capability set is so critical right now
01:05:47
it's important to note though guys that whenever you have the emergence of a new
01:05:51
sector Sox I think you are right that M A goes up but it tends to be that the valuations
01:05:57
go down Peak M A froth happens at the beginning of the cycle when hype is at maximum and facts are at the minimum
01:06:06
and that's okay you know that's good for the startup it's marginally negative for
01:06:11
the existing shareholder of a large company and then over time it gets itself sorted out when the facts are
01:06:17
more obvious so yeah it's kind of like you guys remember when the optical networking craze oh my God had these
01:06:24
multi-billion dollar Acquisitions and where did they go they went they went nowhere they just disappeared we
01:06:30
actually have like a market map that we did that I think can explain this concept of a end-to-end tool chain so
01:06:35
this is a slide that our growth team shout out to Mike Robinson and chemical Borough they put this together in
01:06:43
preparation and part of the investment memo for Mosaic and I think to explain the point you were kind of making
01:06:49
Freeburg like why do Enterprises need the services one really simple way of thinking about it right now is that
01:06:57
every Enterprise would like to roll out its own chat GPT they would all like to have their own internal version of chat
01:07:03
GPT where their employees for example could ask questions and get answers that's where all the action is right now
01:07:09
every Enterprise would buy that tomorrow if it existed in the way sex yeah give an example the idea would
01:07:17
be that you know any employee in the company could ask questions to the AI model the way you can ask chat GPT
01:07:23
questions and it would have all the Enterprises data and it would also understand their permissions and have
01:07:27
all the security settings so that only there I feel could get the right information that's the kind of
01:07:32
intelligence they want to unlock I mean there are lots of other use cases but that's a really simple one a corporate
01:07:38
Oracle so I can if I'm in HR I can ask hey tell me about our you know composition yeah totally co-pilot for
01:07:45
the CEO I think there's gonna be lots of these I think the sales team is gonna have their own co-pilot I think the
01:07:49
marketing team's gonna have their own co-pilot and customer support has it already yeah this customer support will
01:07:54
have it there's gonna be a lot of these but I think Enterprises want one at the level
01:08:00
of the call it the company intranet where employees could just ask it questions and but they do not want to
01:08:06
share their data with open AI That's like very clear they want to roll out their own models
01:08:10
so the question is well how do you roll out your own model and what this shows here is the different pieces of the
01:08:15
stack that you have to have so first you capture all of your data you got to label it to be classified right for the
01:08:20
model you've got to store it somewhere then you need to get one of these open source AI models off the shelf and
01:08:26
there's a probably the most prominent site for this called a hugging face which already has something like I think
01:08:32
a two billion dollar valuation that's another like really crazy valuation to ARR multiple but hugging face has kind
01:08:40
of all the open source models it's very active and so people grab the latest open source model that's the best fit
01:08:46
for them and then they need to train that model and that's really where Mosaic played and there's a ton of
01:08:51
activity right now in this last mile problem of how do you customize a model to make it suitable for your use whether
01:08:58
you're an Enterprise whether you're a customer service team whether you're a SAS app that wants to incorporate AI
01:09:05
capabilities into your app that's where all the action is right now is customizing these open source models
01:09:10
models that then leads to basically being able to get the right inferences and there's sort of a separate category
01:09:17
around Hardware that is you know we don't play there but this is kind of the end-to-end tool chain and I think these
01:09:22
big tech companies are going to be racing to put this whole thing together to fill it out yeah yeah and that's so
01:09:28
there'll be more M A is your prediction which means more startup valuation booming more Capital deploying there was
01:09:33
a uh a couple of Articles this week and tomorrow this is your red meat as much as Ukraine is Saks is
01:09:41
because you've talked about this at length social messaging startup IRL is shutting down after a board
01:09:47
investigation found 95 percent of its claimed 20 million users were actually fake this is a company that in June of
01:09:53
2021 raised 170 million dollar series C at evaluation of over a billion dollars making it one of the many proclaimed
01:10:00
unicorns of Silicon Valley led by softbanks Vision fund the investor who was sitting on the board said that they
01:10:06
didn't know if we've ever given an investment term sheet to a startup faster than SoftBank gave to IRL at the
01:10:12
time at the same time different story but in the same week a company called baiju which you have talked about in the
01:10:19
past was once valued at 22 billion dollars and claimed to be India's most valuable startup is in turmoil as
01:10:25
shareholders and creditors are seeking to dilute the founder and he's rushing to find Capital and raise a billion
01:10:32
dollars to try and buoy the company process one of the investors Mark the company's valuation down to 5.1 billion
01:10:38
so down 75 percent I guess the question is overall are we still seeing this kind of turmoil in
01:10:46
Silicon Valley from the zerp era funding of startups in Stark juxtaposition to the excitement and the frenzy around AI
01:10:53
it's a characteristic of the exact same thing meaning if you replaced AI with crypto
01:11:00
it's the exact same thing if you're placed AI with co-working if you replaced AI with
01:11:10
I don't know synthetic biology if you replaced AI with SAS this has all happened before I think it's important
01:11:18
to identify what this is what this is is that there aren't enough checks and balances and there are
01:11:25
fundamentally people who are deeply inexperienced who are in the wrong job and in the few key moments
01:11:34
where the venture capitalist is supposed to add value that person is ill-equipped
01:11:40
and unprepared why because they were the VP of X Y and Z at some startup and they got hired through no fault of
01:11:47
their own into a dynamic because these Venture funds wanted to raise larger and larger
01:11:52
amounts of money so what happens you don't even know how to ask the basic questions or even more
01:12:00
insidiously you don't have the courage to say the hard thing and so these things happen that are
01:12:08
frankly inexcusable right so in the case of one of these companies and I've mentioned this before
01:12:15
they approached us for financing and when we asked for a data room we got a Google doc link to a spreadsheet
01:12:24
now there's no reasonable World in which a company is that unsophisticated when it comes to understanding their business
01:12:31
right a data room should include an enormous amount of operational and financial metrics that you can use to
01:12:38
come to your own conclusion so that you can present it transparently to the investor
01:12:43
the idea that boards wouldn't even hold these companies accountable is just a sign that the board members themselves
01:12:50
are pretty fundamentally inexperienced people and I think the thing that we do which
01:12:55
is a mistake is we say oh well X Y and Z firm LED this deal yeah that may be true
01:13:01
but really what it means is that firm in a grab to get the money hired some person that checked some
01:13:10
boxes put them in the job that person LED around and there just wasn't any infrastructure to either teach that
01:13:17
person or then that person to have the courage to hold the founder responsible that will play out in AI as well it's
01:13:24
just that we're at the beginning of the hype cycle right because we replace AI again as I
01:13:30
said with any of these other things we sat here a little bit hand-wringing when we saw
01:13:34
these crazy valuations for these nft projects where are those now right so you name it zero this is about
01:13:41
fundamentally inexperienced people doing a job that seems pretty easy from the outside
01:13:47
but in Practical reality there are only a few Legends in our business most people and I think it was shy Goldman
01:13:53
that did the math on this most people do not know how to run these businesses well Nick will find that tweet you can
01:13:59
show I think it's like two and a half percent of all of the funds that are in pitchbook so over 800 of them have ever
01:14:07
generated more than 3x and two funds so this is a hard business it turns out you can't just wake up and be an
01:14:13
investor it turns out and that's what we're finding so I don't know it's not very surprising in the end
01:14:19
none of this is surprising had a really good point in the middle there is that there is a generation of
01:14:25
venture capitalists who were added during the boom who were operators but they've never been taught to have the
01:14:30
discipline of capital allocators and one of those key pieces of discipline is asking uncomfortable questions and doing
01:14:37
uncomfortable diligence and you can trust people but you need to verify that is a key part of
01:14:45
the job you can trust the founders but you have to verify that the data you have is correct
01:14:50
the fact that SoftBank did is that incredible valuation and the person who did this deal never checked that the
01:14:58
customers were real is uh makes you unfit to serve in the job and I will do diligence and during
01:15:06
that time period Freeburg I had many Founders say to me you're asking for more diligence than the lead and this
01:15:13
deal is closing and we are over subscribed and I said okay and they said okay so you're not gonna you're not
01:15:19
going to require assistance I said oh no we require this diligence we want to see
01:15:22
your you know very basic stuff your bank statements your p l we want to talk to why don't you give us a list of your
01:15:28
first thousand give us a list of 500 customers from last month we'll give you five numbers we're going to talk to five
01:15:34
random customers like people did not want to do this stuff we do that this work at our firm when we start to own
01:15:39
five ten percent of this and we train our Founders to do to be ready for proper diligence all that diligence is
01:15:44
happening now now in the early stages there's not much to go on but you can check stuff
01:15:49
during this period people Founders used the hot Market to not participate in the due diligence process
01:15:57
and when you look at companies a lot of times people will suspend disbelief you know this company uh buy
01:16:03
you I don't know a ton about it but it seems to have you know like an educational app like a
01:16:09
company brilliant.org that chamoth and I are um early investors in and Jama incubated
01:16:15
great great business um and but then their business and their revenue seems to be based on a series of
01:16:21
like Kumon like in-person instruction oh that's not a high gross margin business
01:16:25
sorry if you have to have a storefront you're not a software business anymore and so people started giving valuations
01:16:33
and this is the second part and I'll just wrap on this people started giving valuations to these companies that were
01:16:37
real world businesses that were low margin businesses direct to Consumer whatever it was they suspended disbelief
01:16:43
and they gave them valuations for high growth high gross margin businesses and that
01:16:49
was another mistake and you put those two things together not doing diligence and then just
01:16:55
misvaluing of actual assets that's the cleanup work that's been that's going on right now and it takes years I mean it
01:17:01
took decades for them to pinch Bernie Madoff it can take 10 years for these frauds to come out there was a guy who
01:17:08
kept telling the SEC about Bernie Madoff I think he was like nine years since the
01:17:12
first time he he let them know that the you know perfect returns were just not possible statistically
01:17:19
so it it takes time but they're they're picking these uh Folks up everywhere dokwan got picked up at Montenegro you
01:17:26
know the guy from Luna and it's going to take a decade to clean up all of the fraud in our space I think
01:17:32
this was sort of mentioned by chamoth but I think it needs to be a bigger point which is the influence of fund
01:17:37
size on these decisions I mean crash funds are in the six to seven hundred million range so when we
01:17:44
write a check it's usually 10 15 20 million dollar check in a series a company that's like a big check for us we're
01:17:52
really going to sweat that decision for SoftBank at 10 to 20 million dollar check in a hundred billion dollar fund
01:17:58
which is what they had it doesn't even make sense it's a waste of their time it's not even a rounding
01:18:03
error for them to basically make a ten thousand dollar check for you yeah exactly so for them they had to write
01:18:10
200 million dollar checks if to justify their time managing 100 billion dollars and so the mistake when they make a
01:18:17
mistake is 20 times bigger than it should be that should have been maybe a 10 million mistake not a 200 million
01:18:24
dollar mistake but their Fun Size force them to basically write these gigantic checks and they're writing them into
01:18:29
companies that were effectively seed stage or series a companies if it was into a growth stage company I think
01:18:36
that's fine there's a lot more data and there's a lot more customer references that you can check at a later Stage
01:18:41
Company by the way the number one part of diligence I'd say for us other than looking at metrics which is anyone can
01:18:47
do is the offsheet references talking to customers from a list that you figured out yourself not from the company itself
01:18:55
is probably the single most important qualitative part of of diligence so I don't know what happened here but
01:19:02
it's not stated explicitly but I think it's important David you have credibility So when you say something
01:19:08
sucks people listen because you have Bona fides that are undeniable same thing with jcal same thing with you
01:19:14
Freeburg I think you know and this may sound mean but it's like most of these people
01:19:18
are just XYZ mid-level VPS from a startup and that's a great thing but it's not necessarily going to give
01:19:27
you the gravitas especially if that's not what you were forced to do to help build that company and when push comes
01:19:33
to shove inside of a boardroom or in the middle of diligence there has to be conflict I think it's a
01:19:40
necessary feature of good decisions and that conflict arises internally within your investment team but it also has to
01:19:46
come externally with the executives of the startup and with the CEO themselves because when you're Prosecuting a good
01:19:53
decision it's unbelievable that you agree on 100 of things and there has to be certain things that are controversial
01:19:58
otherwise by definition that company isn't really even pushing the boundary so I just think that these are all
01:20:04
skills that are poorly taught while you are building a business it is not the reason why you should have been
01:20:11
in charge of allocating 50 and 100 million dollar checks into companies that is just crazy town
01:20:16
I love your point sacks though about Fun Size Dynamics Fun Size Dynamics our destiny right it really is and and the
01:20:24
optimal Fun Size for Venture is somewhere between 250 and 600 million according to everybody who's been doing
01:20:32
this for you know more than a decade or two and who's successful whether it's when the costs are coming down so as the
01:20:37
input costs come down whether it's for engineers and co-pilots and and hardware and abstraction layers then
01:20:43
theoretically greater outcomes should be generated with fewer dollars in which would again
01:20:48
tell you that fund sizes should actually go down not up that the reason they go up is because you get paid an annual
01:20:54
management fee and so obviously the way to wait the way to make more money is to
01:20:59
get two percent on a larger fixed number every year versus two percent on a smaller number or you know for example
01:21:05
what we did was we were like we're gonna go and hit grand slams and so I traded off management fee in return for 30
01:21:12
carry and that turned out to be literally a multi-billion dollar smart decision because I gave up tens of
01:21:19
millions of dollars up front for back end now the back end could have gone to zero and maybe it still can so who knows
01:21:25
but you know most folks wouldn't do that most folks take the sort of risk-adjusted bet and say you know what
01:21:32
I'll just take the two percent and I'll raise a 200 million then a 500 million then a billion then a two billion
01:21:37
dollars yeah and they stack them all and they get the two percent and all of a sudden
01:21:41
the profits don't matter which means the outcomes don't matter which means the diligence is perfunctory and it becomes
01:21:47
a theatrical expose that you can use you know this sort of thin fig Leaf you can
01:21:53
point to LPS and say we did our work here give us more money for this next fund that's the rat race that the
01:22:00
Venture Community is in and it's going to get played out in companies like IRL and baijus and a lot of these AI
01:22:06
companies quite honestly well and it the chickens have come home tours for all the questions is not different is I
01:22:11
think what I'm trying to say this time is not different did you guys see there was some article that reported that
01:22:17
fundraising for late stage funds is just like cratered dead so Insight was trying
01:22:22
to raise a 10 billion dollar fund and they've only been able to raise two according to this article no no it was
01:22:26
it was 22 down to 10 and of which they've raised two okay so 10 and then tiger was trying to raise 12 they cut it
01:22:34
to six and then they can only raise two makes sense yeah so basically that's like a whatever uh 80 to 90 reduction in
01:22:43
the size of these funds yeah meanwhile the sovereigns where they were going for this money or buying sports teams
01:22:48
they're like you know what instead of tech let's just buy sports teams and they're buying series a and they're
01:22:53
buying Manchester United and they're buying distressed portfolios yeah and the but there's a sovereign crunch
01:22:58
there's a huge we've talked about it before but there's a huge crunch in late stage financing it's only going to get
01:23:02
worse over the next 18 months I asked Brad last week like how many of these zombie courts do you think there are
01:23:09
these are the 1400 he said 30 to 40 percent yeah I think he might be you know it could be look out of 1400 I
01:23:16
think it could be 700 or zombie coins I think it's at least 700 I think I think it's probably 60 yeah it's and then the
01:23:22
other 40 let's say how many of them have a Down Round coming I think 60 go to zero
01:23:29
of the remaining 40 half of them probably return money and then of the remaining half half of
01:23:37
those maybe get one and a half X and then you get a geometric distribution from there which means the
01:23:43
Blended return of that entire stream of unicorns will be about 1.1 x but it'll be very massively distributed I think
01:23:49
that is exactly right tomorrow I I would yeah everybody's getting their money back except if you don't have
01:23:55
diversification yeah it's it's the I think the market is sending a very clear message which is these are usage
01:24:02
everybody's getting no no no most people won't get their money most people get their money back but on average it's
01:24:07
going to be one extra turn yeah so it's not going to be evenly distributed correct
01:24:10
well I'm glad that the term zombie corn has held guys um we are coming up on our
01:24:15
time do you guys want to do science corner or do you want to um yeah the three of us need to use the
01:24:20
bathroom break so go ahead and just if you could just go do it we're gonna go and take a leak and we'll come back
01:24:27
and make a Uranus joke so look it's been great it's been great being your host we crashed yourself give
01:24:35
us the science quitter give us you don't hug me you don't embrace me you know you're gonna love my contribution free
01:24:40
book I actually I posted a clip of RFK talking about vaccines I'd love for you to listen to it and actually give us the
01:24:47
critique yes I will that's going viral right now he did such a good job explaining his position on
01:24:54
that he did such a good job yeah look do you guys read the offit piece I forward
01:24:58
it to you and I said please read this if you guys read that piece I'll watch his clip and let's talk about it next
01:25:04
week is that cool yeah he is a vaccine scientist who RFK Jr references often as someone that he
01:25:13
met with and spoke with and says I caught him in a lie and often basically said here's exactly what happened here's
01:25:18
the conversation here's the data here's the fact here's the science and I would really really encourage you
01:25:25
guys to read that please and then I'll watch his clip and like let's have a real kind of analytical
01:25:30
conversation about statements that are good questions to ask and good things to interrogate and things that are being
01:25:37
said that maybe aren't factually correct and I think that we need to kind of really as a service to ourselves and to
01:25:43
people that listen to us really do that work so let's do that and come back and talk
01:25:47
about it next week if that's cool but I'd encourage everyone to read often he put it on substack Nick we'll put the
01:25:53
link in the the notes Here continue dialogue continue exactly I think that's the most important you want to talk
01:25:59
about that certain Senator that all of a sudden just basically gave us the Heisman no we've had a lot of those by
01:26:05
the way so let me just be clear that's not the only Heisman we've received on the all in Summit I will say that the
01:26:10
speaker list for the all-in summit it's looking fantastic we're gonna have a great time
01:26:19
and I'm really excited for the conversation but you're saying some folks Heisman does because of our
01:26:24
support of RFK that did happen and specifically the fact that that's really open-minded yeah
01:26:31
and then there were other folks who were insulted by things or said about them by
01:26:36
people on the show So Soft you guys want to hear about the the nanograph release
01:26:41
that came out yesterday okay I'll cover this one real quick what about this like
01:26:44
slow Hummer that we're all getting what is that that's it it's a slow Hummer exactly okay are you talking about like
01:26:51
the new H3 EV but it only goes up to 50 miles per hour what is that the new Hummer the new HV
01:26:57
you know they have an EV they're coming out with an EV event oh you're kidding it's hilarious yeah it's like a great
01:27:03
troll I remember when Schwarzenegger got the Hummer back in the 90s and everyone's like oh my God it's amazing
01:27:09
and then the Hummer was the coolest car to drive yeah Okay so yesterday a paper was published
01:27:20
by an international um scientific Consortium this group is called nanograph and they've been using a series of
01:27:27
instruments to measure pulsars including a 500 meter radio telescope array um which allows them to see what's so
01:27:37
funny no I just had like three Uranus jumps one sentence and I had to stop myself
01:27:44
the nanograph data that was released is 15 years of data from pulsars and pulsars are neutron stars which are
01:27:52
stars that have collapsed on themselves and are basically super dense and start spinning and then these pulsars you know
01:27:58
you basically like a lighthouse you can see the light so it looks like a almost like a strobe light and we can see
01:28:03
thousands of these Across the Universe and we can observe them and the rate at which the pulsing is coming out of these
01:28:09
pulsars tells us a lot about what is happening in the space between Earth and those pulsars and when you collect
01:28:18
enough data over a long enough period of time which is what these folks have just
01:28:21
released as 15 years worth of this data you can start to see really interesting patterns in the data that support the
01:28:31
theory that space time itself is slowly vibrating being stretched being compressed being pulled apart being
01:28:40
pushed back together because of very large gravitational events happening around the universe and what that means
01:28:47
is you guys have all seen you know that kind of two-dimensional image of a black hole and Nick if you
01:28:52
could find one online and pull it up where it looks like hey at the middle of a black hole space itself collapses in
01:28:57
and it collapses down and what happens is space and time gets significantly elongated when they're really close to
01:29:04
gravity gravity actually pulls space sucks it in sucks in time and it becomes distorted and so when you have large
01:29:12
black holes around the universe spinning and running past each other they're actually pulling and stretching space
01:29:18
time itself and that sends out ripples throughout the Universe ripples that are slowly undulating space and time itself
01:29:27
so by observing all of these pulsars around the universe and the rate at which these pulsars are pulsing and
01:29:33
seeing slight variations we can start to measure and actually see those waves those very slow waves of space time
01:29:43
itself undulating and being pushed and compressed and so it supports Einstein's general theory of relativity which
01:29:50
indicated that space-time itself can be warped by gravity and it provides a really interesting picture on the
01:29:56
universe itself that all around us we have large masses that are many many millions or billions of light years away
01:30:03
that are creating waves in space and time itself that we as humans will never kind of observe realize or feel
01:30:10
ourselves but as part of the fabric and the underlying nature of our universe with space and time being slowly warped
01:30:18
and slowly elongated slowly compressed and it's a really fascinating picture of the universe over time as scientists
01:30:24
gather more and more of this data it will provide insights into where in the universe these massive black hole
01:30:31
events May Be occurring and also provide insights into the early picture and the
01:30:35
large-scale structure of the universe which helps us better understand how everything started and where we're all
01:30:41
coming from so it was a really fascinating data release I think it's a really kind of profound thing if you
01:30:46
take a little time and think about it it's super exciting it's getting a lot of press coverage today and
01:30:52
encourage us all to pull our heads out of the Ukraine war and Silicon Valley and money and all this stuff and realize
01:30:58
that there are things of extraordinary scale and structure that are that are happening around us let me ask you two
01:31:02
questions number one why does it matter and number two any theories here of what
01:31:09
we might discover you know if this you know goes 10x or 100x in terms of the the information we're getting many years
01:31:17
ago it was theorized that there's what's called a cosmic microwave background radiation the CMB and what that is it's
01:31:25
the leftover heat from the formation of the Universe from the universe when the Big Bang happened yep and these
01:31:31
scientists figured out how to create really sensitive radio telescopes and um put them in the the uh in orbit and they
01:31:38
started to observe the background radiation and what that showed us was the fingerprint of the universe the
01:31:44
original structure of the universe that created ultimately all the galaxies super galaxies and then ultimately all
01:31:50
the stars and then the planets and everything that that came from that this could be the beginning of seeing a
01:31:55
gravitational background of the universe where we could actually start to see perhaps the fingerprint of the
01:32:02
space-time of the whole universe of what the actual structure of space itself and time
01:32:08
itself looks like throughout the Universe with the perturbations being driven by some very large massive
01:32:13
supermassive black holes there was a black hole discovered this week that's 30 billion times the mass of our sun
01:32:20
there are these massive objects out there that are actively distorting space-time and we're going to start to
01:32:26
get a fingerprint of that with this sort of data and over time that just gives us
01:32:30
a better sense of what the overall structure of the universe looks like not just from the heat energy that we're
01:32:35
collecting but also the gravitational waves that we're now able to observe through the inference of this data
01:32:40
collection let's just make deepens our understanding of the universe but there's no structure of the universe
01:32:44
yeah which is amazing and interesting but and and it validates and proves the general theory of relativity which if
01:32:51
you think about the application of that down the road that may lead to things like close to or as fast as like travel
01:32:58
or things related to time travel or you know there's a lot of things that people
01:33:02
have theorized for decades about you know black holes and the warping of space-time itself I'm not saying that
01:33:09
any of this stuff is did you see the three body problem trailer oh yeah it looks amazing it looks
01:33:15
amazing it's amazing what a great what a great can't believe we have to wait so long I hate it when they put out
01:33:20
trailers so how long when is it coming out next year oh wow yeah oh I still haven't seen your movie the guys your
01:33:28
movie that you wanted me to see which one better try oh everything everywhere all at once I got a better
01:33:33
movie for you I got a great pull for you uh it's on Pay-per-view right now the movie call about BlackBerry
01:33:40
it tells the story of black oh I heard it's like an independent film it is awesome
01:33:45
I just reviewed it on this week in startups it's called just on his BlackBerry called Blackberry yeah I
01:33:52
think okay well guys this has been episodes amazing 135 of the all-in Pod I really appreciate it
01:33:58
are oh my God my time together just enough time to get you back to your Nirvana concert
01:34:04
Leo what's the background on this one is that a rival what is that what's that background what movie that's a black
01:34:12
hole that's a black hole just a black hole okay no I think that that's from might be event might be a matter with
01:34:20
Sax's hair because he looks like did you get it cut sacks he got a cut did you cut it no you broke I got a mild
01:34:27
sloughing shower show us the floor let's go let's see just keep growing it out man Jacob you
01:34:39
want to take us out you do a better outro all right everybody for David sacks the architect coming at you Z100
01:34:46
boarding Zoo for Tuesdays Tears for Fears coming up and free bird with the science project
01:34:52
all right traveling back in time with David Friedberg two for Tuesday Jackson Browne the lowdown here we go
01:35:04
the greatest moderator I'm the world's greatest modern I can do my MPR voice if you like dude all right
01:35:12
closing us out here episode 135 pcrw 92.3 The Sound of Santa Monica this Sunday at the Venice uh Farmers Market
01:35:22
two for one on the organic milk go check it out and uh we'll see you all later on
01:35:28
the politics of culture David sacks uh coming in on the Republican GOP position which we did consider Friedberg deeply
01:35:37
going into science on wealth disparity for everybody I am your host here at KCRW
01:35:46
is the world's most moderate moderator we'll see you next time KCRW I can do any of these radio bits
01:35:56
love you guys we'll let your winners ride [Music] besties [Music] it's like this like sexual tension that
01:36:35
we just need to release somehow [Music] [Music] I'm going all in