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Congressman how should we refer to you today well I prefer Dean but you know let's go go with that Mr Phillips
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and just I'm I'm asking people to be keen on Dean so I might as well run with it oh go well you know what I'm a big
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supporter of the dean machine already oh you know about the dean machine with this gelato I'm I'm all up on the dean
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Machine by the way I bought an old International Harvester Metro van for Tes when we did activations like South
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by Southwest and I used to own one of those by the way no you did I yeah I bought for my Ranch great I love that
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baby so I bought one for tente and I saw how people just immediately were attracted to it and fell in love with it
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and I thought hey when I ran for congress I'm going to do the same thing so I created the government repair truck
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are you driving around in this International Harvester Of course you're kidding yeah awesome I'll show you I'll
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send you a picture of it it's cool it's a awesome it's got a 1980 Chevy Chassis under it but it's still the still the
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basic uh nuts and bols Z we're referring to a type of automobile you can ask one
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of your three drivers about it David don't worry David your driver can take you in them ask your Miami driver he
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probably owns some muscle cars I don't think your La driver owns muscle cars here we go let's start the
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three let your winners ride Ravid and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
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with it queen of hey everybody hey everybody Welcome to the all-in podcast with us again to
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today the dictator himself jamath ptia the Rainman David Sachs and the Sultan of science David Friedberg we are going
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to continue our conversation series with presidential candidates today our fourth
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presidential candidate is on the program Dean Phillips represents Minnesota's thirdd district and he's about 25 years
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younger than Trump and Biden at 54 years old Dean before getting into politics I
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understand you were the CEO of your family's Spirits business and you ran talente gelato oh that pistachio flavor
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amazing so welcome to the all-in podcast meet the other besties and maybe you could just start out by telling us why
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you are running for president yeah well I'll tell you after being in the Vodka business and the ice cream business and
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actually the coffee business I think I understand at least what Americans want so that's a good start uh well I'll tell
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you a little about my background why I'm here I lost my dad in the Vietnam War uh
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when I was just 6 months old he had grew up with no money in St Paul Minnesota earned an RC scholarship uh on behalf of
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the federal government of course uh to pursue his education uh went to Vietnam in 1968 just before I was born got to
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see the US land on the moon and I think regularly about how he looked up two days before his helicopter crashed and
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he died looked up and saw Americans on the moon and looked down and saw America at its worst and literally that
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experience in no small way is uh what brings me to this day and uh I was six months old uh my mom was 24 and widowed
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and we moved in with my great-grandparents for the first three years of my life and I got lucky when I
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was three my Mom married a wonderful extraordinary man who adopted me Eddie Phillips brought me into a family of
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great blessings my grandmother became Dear Abby and my aunt an Lander so I grew up in a family of a lot of advice
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and um I've lived on both sides of advantage and I recognize it I remember the day I turned uh 26 uh and I counted
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the days that my father had lived my birth father and I remember the day after um I had lived as many days as him
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uh my life changed forever and I I became inspired uh joined our family business after college uh ended up
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running our our beverage business we created Bader vodka which we sold to lbmh and then got into the ice cream
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business and did the same you guys created beler yeah we my father and I and our partner Steve Gil went on a trip
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to Poland in 1993 oping to sell them Philip schnaps which we made in Minnesota we thought Eastern Europe was
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ready for peppermint and Peach schnaps and and we we we're touring distilleries and we see both in in dutyfree in the
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airport and in the distilleries the most beautiful packaging we had ever seen in
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the spirits business now mind you this is when absolute and stoy were like the Pinnacle of luxury $15 you know average
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now and my father immediately yeah sat at a restaurant that night literally this is a literal napkin story he a
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napkin created a little Matrix and said if stolen absolute are $15 and they're the most premium in a fast growing
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category why shouldn't there be a $25 vodka and why should this not be it so we negotiated with the Polish government
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our partner Tad dorda from Poland helped us and we first obtained the distribution rights and then when Poland
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privatized their uh Spirits industry uh we acquired The Distillery and the IP and the rest was history and you know
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cork finish beautiful bottle now we sold it uh we talked about the lowest common
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denominator the pens we used to write the orders the way we carried it made all the difference in the world and then
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we use that same template in ice cream because what we found is in every Cate every consumer product category in which
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there are two main competitors Coke and Pepsi sto the absolute Ben and& Jerry's and hogendas they tend to fight to the
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bottom lower pricing um you know frankly um demeaning consumers and there's always an opportunity to introduce
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something a little bit more premium little bit more special that's still an affordable luxury and badier by the way
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was built by Jay-Z I can tell you that story if you want to hear it it's an extraordinary one yeah yeah tell that
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story too yeah so so far you're you're our kind of candidate we're like EXA yeah you just got four votes apparently
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we're all looking at you like who is this guy awesome so when people ask me about my platform I'll say I'll be a
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Storyteller about vodka I'm ready to start popping bottles over here by the way that's exactly what Jay-Z did sax
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and I popped many a badier bottle in when we had our run in La true or not true sex it was a tough choice between
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beler and grey goose oh I'll tell you that story too by the way anyway so we introduced beler and it and by the way
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what what we learned in hindsight is that our aperture was way too small you know we were way too we we sold it by
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the bottle not by the case we only went to restaurants and bars at first not to the big stores we wanted to be special
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and we completely underestimated the size of what this category could be Sydney Frank who introduced Grey Goose
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took a much bigger appr anyway so I'm sitting at home getting ready for work one day I have MTV on and
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it's probably a year after we introduced beler it's doing well but not not big this is like mid90s yeah this I can't
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remember the year chamath it's probably you know 95 yeah 9 thereabouts I'm watching MTV I
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see a Jay-Z video and it is all badier it's in the fridge he's holding it there people dancing he's pouring it on them
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and I froze called my dad immediately who of course didn't have MTV on and and I said you got to turn it on he couldn't
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find the channel I'm like hey Dad you know MTV repeats the same videos you know five 10 times a day so we got to
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the office and sure enough we had the TV on it came back on the whole company gathered at that time we were probably
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10 people and we gathered around the TV and watched this video and I'm telling you guys within two weeks the brand
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completely popped and my dad Jay-Z ended up calling my father uh they had a uh dinner in New York City uh memorable one
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for both actually he ended up introducing a vodka some years later called Armadale uh right and it failed
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miserably but it was one of the first times that I think in this new culture of influencers and celebrity endorsers
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that that magic happened he almost literally made beler so that's the story did you guys sign him to a deal and pay
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him money or No No in fact we talked about that and the coure so this is the brand foundation of the brand house was
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authenticity we didn't do a damn thing that had anything to do with anything that wasn't true the makers of it the
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the product itself we didn't we didn't pay people to talk about it unlike Sydney Frank with grey goose so we chose
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not to uh it was all natural and then here's the other cool thing and this is how my campaign's going to work we sent
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200 bottles in very special beautiful boxes to 200 influencers we we believe that if we could simply seed the brand
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with 200 people all around the us that they could be the content makers and The Advocates the ambassadors in fact
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one of them went to this guy right behind me Bill Clinton and Robert dairo another example Robert Redford you know
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leaders of industry and actors and and uh and the like Robert dairo gets one of these things and there's a note inside
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with a picture of the distiller bogdon zensky it said watch page three the Tiffany section I'm sorry the Tiffany
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location of the Wall Street Journal on call it it was like Monday February 6th only 200 people knew what was coming the
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ad in the paper didn't show a bottle anything it just said badier bogdon wants to know how you like it so we
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literally did an ad that kkash knows back then probably $100,000 tiny little top Corner ad that spoke to 200 people
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in the United States of America that had no idea nobody else knew what it was Robert dairo goes to the Beverly Hills
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Hotel or the peninsula I can't remember orders a beler martini soon thereafter the Barm man says Mr dairo we have
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absolute we have stoie I don't have that brand and he says I don't think you heard me I want a bellor martini so the
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bar man sends like the bar back to whatever the the wine and spirit shop is on Rodeo driver in bever Beverly Hills
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and the guy he comes back with a bottle and the entire bar watched this little episode and I'm telling you once again
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within a week that store was selling through beler like it was water so these little moments where you identify the
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right people and now mind you this is in the analog era there was no internet there was no social media this was
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people simply talking to people so we sold beler to lvmh and then we looked at the I ice cream category sa Ben and
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Jerry's doing the same thing if you can tell us about that what is it like to negotiate against lbmh and Bernard Arno
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and why do you sell it when it's working I guess maybe is a question you know I'll tell you well this is not a story
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I've shared with many um they were very disingenuous and uh it it deeply troubles me to this day uh the way that
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my father was treated uh the promises that were made simply to get a deal done and then not kept um I think is a
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reflection on principle and I'll leave it at that um a lesson learned uh in fact rather than going through a
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competitive process which I think any Enterprise would do to maximize value of a brand uh our family ethos was a little
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different and um and I think we bit and in hindsight it was a mistake um but I'll leave it at that you learn less hey
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you know what you learn lessons every experience to this very day I'm learning them every day on the campaign Trail too
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uh that was one I would never make again all right well you got the two David's votes with the Vodka you got mine with
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the gelato and if you launch a luxury Fabric Brand or sweaters I think you're going to get J on first I got some other
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work to do for eight years so we we'll do that afterwards I'll just wrap this long story up so we introduced you know
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tent obviously does well we sold it to Unilever then I open a couple coffee shops with my family in Minneapolis
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thinking this would be kind of a fun Folly and then we're watching the 2016 election uh at home uh I thought I would
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wake up the next morning we'd have Hillary Clinton as president not that that would was thrilling to the world
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but it would have been safe and lo and behold um you know what happened and I remember telling my family that night
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like look give the guy a chance he's not going to act like that in the White House the presidency changes you it
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humbles you it moderates you and my family thought I was a you know I was a joke and I woke up the next morning my
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16-year-old was in her room crying my 18-year-old was a freshman at College we facetimed her and she's crying and I sat
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at The Breakfast Table guys and I promised my daughters I would do something I I raised them to be
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participants not not observers and I looked around at my district I thought maybe I'll run for
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Congress I looked around and uh I had the district had not been won by a Democrat since the 1958 election this is
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now we're looking at the 2018 election 60 years and the man who had won uh won his fourth term by 14 points and people
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told me I was crazy you you're out of your mind you're giving up a a good life to run for misery and you'll never make
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it and you'll embarrass yourself which is why I did it and not only did we win we won by 12 points we had fun we used
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invitation not confrontation and I drove that little van all around the district
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to the most unhospitable Parts I open the Service window I served coffee and I sat I put two chairs out and people
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would just come up and talk and I found magic in just letting people share what's on their mind they're so unheard
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anyhow I get to well I can tell you now I want to tell you why I'm doing it but that's the story of where I came from
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and why I'm doing this and look at the end of the day I'm the one of those I got lucky you know there's a lot of kids
00:13:00
who lost their dads in Vietnam who did not have the magical moment that I had to be adopted by an amazing father and
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that was the difference for me it's my job to make sure others get that same chance simple as that before we jump
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into the future about why you're running and what you what you see for the country talk about the years that you
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spent in Congress what did You observe there what what is it like dayto day and and what do you think is working and
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what isn't working I I we had three hours I get there jamath I get there the first week
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of 2019 and like all of you that come from organizational and Enterprise experience
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I assume that Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy would have a have a strategy to introduce the new members of Congress
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both Democrats and Republicans you know get to know each other do a ropes course
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you know and build some trust or something and my goodness it was just the opposite guys we were put on
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separate buses going to different events and I realized right away that they had
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a systemic segregation strategy on day one and me sincerely the two parties this is I tell you what I've learned we
00:14:05
talk more about this the only people that want to protect the status quo of the duopoly and the political industrial
00:14:11
complex that just surrounds it all are the two parties and it is destructive and I will get into that but I recognize
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right away all of my colleagues that the leadership in both uh Democratic and Republican side they wanted to keep us
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separate they did not want to give us education and information uh and they wanted to keep
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us so busy that we could not become threats to their power structure you you can imagine members of
00:14:35
Congress tend to be pretty ambitious people and ultimately they were smart to do that because uh they made members of
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Congress they do to the state raise rais money all week long 10,000 hours per week is what senators and house members
00:14:50
spend raising money I've got a bill actually that would preclude it from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. because it's such
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an unmitigated joke and disaster the fact that in the United States that a pack representing a special interest or
00:15:03
Corporation can hand a $5,000 check to a member of Congress at a steakhous on Wednesday evening and then that member
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serves on a committee in which that business or special interest has business in front of the next day is the
00:15:18
most unbelievable form of legal corruption you could possibly imagine so that's one needless to say I resolved
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right after that first week of orientation that I would do it differently uh befriended my Republican
00:15:29
colleagues my wife anise and I started having bipartisan dinners at our house I joined the problem solvers caucus I hope
00:15:36
you guys know about it it's the most important small caucus in Congress we're now 32 Democrats and 32 Republicans
00:15:43
committed to doing what we're supposed to do get to know each other talk policy and try to make a difference now we're
00:15:48
the workhorses not the show horses so you don't know most of our names including me uh but we were the ones
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invited to the white house uh uh in in like week three of our service I was one of four Democrats there were four
00:16:00
Republicans that uh president Trump invited to the Situation Room to make a proposition to get us through the
00:16:06
shutdown which I can talk about that bizarre hour of my life as well um and that's how I resolved to do it now I'm
00:16:13
ranked depending on the the survey uh number one number two number 10 uh most bipartisan members of the entire uh US
00:16:20
Congress and including Governors uh and and I vote relatively Progressive it's not about just the votes it's about the
00:16:26
ethos it's about uh rep repan sponsored bills that come from me it's about me sponsoring Republican Le bills uh and
00:16:34
that's what makes me a little bit different than I think just about every member of Congress not to mention I
00:16:38
think I'm the only one that's willing to torpedo a career so that the country isn't torpedoed by this nonsense and
00:16:45
dysfunction um there's a lot more to talk about but the it all starts with a systematic segregation and a focus on
00:16:52
fighting each other instead of fighting for each other I can talk about it all day long let's start there Dean what
00:16:58
give us the assessment of what's happening in the white house right now before we talk about your candidacy just
00:17:02
like what what's going on well let me just say I respect President Biden I he's a man I've had in my house uh for
00:17:10
an event he's a man with whom I've flown on Air Force One twice he did a beautiful video for my daughter he
00:17:16
called my mother um I think he did a fine job I think he was the only man that could have defeated Donald Trump in
00:17:24
2020 and I have to say I think it's fair to say too he's probably the only Democrat who could and will lose to
00:17:30
Donald Trump in 2024 he's a human being uh he's now in his 80s uh he is clearly um on the
00:17:38
decline he's not incompetent I believe he's surrounded himself by competent able principal people and I believe the
00:17:45
White House is running as a team as most do uh but do I think that he will be in
00:17:50
a position to continue leading this country in the future I do not I think I'm joined by about 75% of the country
00:17:56
of the country in saying that I also also believe the policies that we passed for the most part are investments for
00:18:01
the future in infrastructure the chips act I think is a very important bill which by the way has National Security
00:18:07
implications as you guys know the inflation reduction act a bizarre name for a bill that's really a energy and
00:18:13
climate bill I think is is pretty good legislation and I think he reconstituted our allies around the world that had
00:18:19
been frayed to a point of great danger uh during the Trump Administration so I salute the past but this is really an
00:18:26
election about the future it's about a gener change it's about creating you know really a new American Century uh
00:18:32
that will be powered by systems structures people technologies that I'm just afraid that President Biden and
00:18:39
former president Trump can't even comprehend let alone create thoughtful policy to both nurture and also manage
00:18:46
and I think that's where we're at and I want to I think we have wars overseas that I think in no small part are caused
00:18:52
by a generation that is so focused on techniques and tools of the past that that they can't even dare look to
00:19:00
building peace for the future that's I think why we have the Middle East still going that's why Ukraine you know the
00:19:06
vice president has some ownership in some of these issues that I'm afraid um have to be exposed and they're the truth
00:19:12
and I'm happy to talk about them but most of all I'll wrap it with this affordability in the United States of
00:19:17
America is absolutely uh the most challenging issue facing Americans they don't believe that their government is
00:19:23
listening they don't believe the president understands they don't believe Congress is able to do anything about it
00:19:29
because we're so dysfunctional uh and that's another mission that I'm on right now to end this nonsense I'm going to
00:19:34
build a Team of Rivals I will have a white house uh and a cabinet comprised of both Democrats and Republicans the
00:19:41
most able leaders imaginable who have run multibillion doll organizations in some cases understand customer service
00:19:47
we'll employ zerob based budgeting to the extent we can we will employ a world-class consulting firm to look at
00:19:53
every single government program system structure uh and um and Personnel to identify ways to save money these are
00:20:01
things that this President and frankly no president who doesn't have business experience nonprofit leadership
00:20:08
experience and government experience could possibly imagine because they're so stuck in their siloed ways of
00:20:13
thinking he's been there for 50 years uh and it's time for change I was two three
00:20:18
years old when he became a senator so let's get specific on the issues and go into foreign policy which is David Sax's
00:20:25
I think number one issue this election course but first just to be clear on Biden do you believe he's in cognitive
00:20:32
decline do the Democrats privately believe he's in cognitive decline and to what extent do you think he'd make it
00:20:38
through the next presidency or do you think this is sort of a Ronald Reagan situation where he might look back on it
00:20:42
and he's got some early onset of some cognitive decline what do you personally think and what do Democrats
00:20:48
think I don't want to impress upon anybody or give you do the sense that I think he has a form of Dementia or
00:20:55
Alzheimer's or significant cognitive decline um but anybody who pays attention can
00:21:01
see the change and I'm I'm not I'm not you know people are saying that I'm causing his problems I could risk his
00:21:07
you know reelection you know I'm not the guy that has him losing to Trump nationally down in five of six
00:21:13
Battleground States the lowest approval ratings in presidential history almost uh and I'm certainly not the guy uh that
00:21:20
has shown his you know his decline that's on video that's on audio you see it it's natural he's a human being for
00:21:27
goodness sakes all I'm doing you guys is saying the quiet part out loud the only
00:21:32
one you ask the question do others talk about this the question is is anybody not talking about this of course they
00:21:40
are you guys they've really created an opportunity for you because like you said everyone's talking about this of
00:21:45
course but no one's willing to say it of course what what has been the blowback in the Democratic Party from your
00:21:51
declaring what do you think I'm not being thrown flowers and parties let me tell you that guys I'll tell you I I I I
00:21:59
think most would consider me an affable friendly well-liked member of Congress I
00:22:03
know that that's my that's my ethos uh my friends are still my friends I think they're disappointed because this is not
00:22:10
what you do when you're a member of a party you fall in line you shush up you sit down you get in line and you do
00:22:16
nothing to upset the apple cart of others who've been waiting in line perhaps a little longer than you so you
00:22:22
can imagine uh the push back has been strong the arrows sharp uh and the pain quite significant but nothing compared
00:22:29
to the pain that Americans are feeling right now and that's why I'm doing this and I should also let you know I had no
00:22:34
intention of doing this a year ago I was on a radio show and a host asked me if I
00:22:38
thought the President should run again and I said of course not he implicitly if not explicitly said he wouldd be a
00:22:44
transitional president kind of the bridge most members of Congress thought he was going to stand down that's why
00:22:50
that's why Nome and pritzker and uh Whitmer and so many others were kind of making their plans and I said and if he
00:22:59
doesn't pass the torch then we should ensure at least that the stage has newer generation candidates to uh give voters
00:23:06
a choice anyway months went by I started seeing the polls change dramatically the
00:23:11
tenor and tone of constituent discussions with me and every single one of my colleagues was changing
00:23:15
graphically All The Independents moderate Republicans that voted for the president I think for the right reasons
00:23:21
were increasingly telling us that they're not going to do it again they may not vote for Trump but they're not
00:23:25
going to vote rather than vote for Biden and over time uh it got to a point actually guys where um I resigned from
00:23:33
the house leadership table because my position was so in congruent with those who were in positions to do something
00:23:40
about it uh that I didn't feel it was appropriate for me to sit with them anymore and I was really frustrated I
00:23:46
called Gretchen Whitmer I called JB pritzker I made public calls to the candidates whose names are better known
00:23:52
than me to jump in you know the water's warm you guys it's a Democratic primary that's what we do not only did those two
00:23:58
not take my calls which they would have any other day they had their political operatives take those calls and they
00:24:04
told me please don't use their names that's the culture that's the culture you guys that we're dealing with
00:24:11
you will be blackballed you will be disenfranchised you will be let out the door if you so much as even issue a word
00:24:20
that you might challenge a sitting president of the United States this is the United States of America it's
00:24:24
appalling anyhow I'm frustrated we saw that we we saw that happened with RFK Jr because he declared initially as a
00:24:31
Democrat and Biden wouldn't give him Secret Service protection despite the you know enormous personal safety risks
00:24:39
and threats he's actually same thing for me by the way guys you can imagine yeah
00:24:43
and biggest line item in my budget right now by the way is security the biggest line item the second biggest line item
00:24:50
that's going to surpass that is getting onto the ballot right well that was the thing is
00:24:55
they wouldn't let they wouldn't let RFK on the ballot debate him they just want to pretend like he didn't exist and they
00:24:59
basically drove him out of the party so now he's running as an independent do you think you're going to be able to get
00:25:04
on the ballot as a Democrat on in these primaries absolutely and we're making those choices right now David because
00:25:10
first of all it's obscene I want to let you all know that in a country that Prides itself on being a democracy a
00:25:16
Democratic Republic I can't even tell you how many states literally create high barriers to entry to satisfy the
00:25:25
two parties to ensure that their corn candidate has an advantage over anybody else I'm talking about what the most
00:25:32
egregious ones give us an example of what you have to do oh the mo the most egregious are oftentimes the deepest
00:25:37
blue New York is is close to Impossible when I say impossible how so explain it to us like what you have to do yeah so
00:25:45
the reason I started in New Hampshire is it has a 103 year old tradition of being
00:25:49
the first in the nation primary they take this really seriously they're the most engaged Americans in the country
00:25:54
they have a process they you know we walk through the snow we answer their questions and you also all all you need
00:26:00
is a $1,000 check you got to be 35 years old you got to be born in the United States of America and you too can become
00:26:08
a candidate for president of the United States that's what I did they have the most beautiful ritual in the state house
00:26:13
in conquered New Hampshire that is worth going to one time just to see the Majesty of filing for president of the
00:26:19
United States so there are 21 of us on the Democratic side of the ballot because that's how it should be take
00:26:25
take a state like Virginia wa wait hold on there's 21 people running for the Democratic but that's incredible I had
00:26:31
no idea yeah chamat 21 uh in Maran Williamson and I are the best known of those 21 because the president of the
00:26:39
United States chose not to so that's how you have it you ask about other states though uh New
00:26:46
York Virginia uh $450 to $500,000 to pay consulting firms to pay people $25 $26 per signature to just sit
00:26:58
outside and just say hey can we get your signature to get this guy in a ballot not it's not Grassroots it's not old
00:27:04
school caucusing democracy it is pay to play and we would we would need we would
00:27:09
need a well we're going to have to raise uh probably six yeah maybe I'm sorry maybe maybe maybe less than that maybe
00:27:15
$5 million we have a staff of three people right now and legal counsel just to get my name on a primary ballot it's
00:27:24
absurd Marian Williamson you know she she's not going to be able to RFK as a as an independent by the way I think he
00:27:31
should be I I'm not someone who I'm concerned about some of his positions but I think he should be able to get on
00:27:36
the ballot it's you guys it's absurd it's obnoxious and what I've discovered in the last three weeks is going to be
00:27:42
my mission after being president to fix because it is going to destroy the country from the inside and that is why
00:27:49
we have the kind of candidates we have year after year after year and Americans say they're and that's why we have
00:27:54
trumpism I like the fact you know most people become politicians as a career I've harped
00:28:01
against this for a while and so they have everything to lose if they stand up against the party and they stand up
00:28:08
against the political establishment within which they're meant to operate and therefore just a few people get to
00:28:13
make all the decisions and control all the levers and everyone else is just a marionette but and they stay there
00:28:19
forever Dave they stay there forever and there's no term limits which is what we
00:28:22
need that's why we need them the fact that you're self-made and you don't have anything to lose mhm you can leave
00:28:28
Congress and you'll be fine you you you're a citizen that can go back to work and do what you do and you're doing
00:28:34
this as a service you're doing this because of your interest in the country it sounds like other not to say that
00:28:38
other folks don't but they're largely going to be driven and unfortunately adversely affected by the fact that they
00:28:44
have to fall within the way that the game is played in order to operate and will not stand up and say the things
00:28:50
that need to be said in order for us to make progress and get out of these situations but those are the perverse
00:28:55
incentives exactly I Comm you for doing and I'm glad it's possible I think Jason
00:28:59
we should probably talk about the the topic we have two topics that I think all passionate here the first is far and
00:29:05
policy the second is the budget and are out of control spending let's start with
00:29:09
Sachs you said you wanted hard questions welcome to the PO saaks let's bring it before we came on
00:29:15
you us and said hard questions let's go please meet David saaks hey David Dean you said a minute ago that
00:29:23
one of the reasons why the world's on fire is because of the B administration's handling of foreign
00:29:28
policies kind of led us to this point I think there was a really good example of
00:29:31
this a week ago there was a new report out by a former un assistant Secretary General named Michael Vander schulenberg
00:29:39
who worked at the UN for 34 years he did a detailed study and reconstruction of what happened in uh March of 2022 so the
00:29:48
month after the war and what he concluded is there was a Bonafide deal on the table between
00:29:55
Russia and Ukraine where Putin was willing to pull back and leave and leave the territorial Integrity of Ukraine
00:30:04
intact if Ukraine would agree not to become part of NATO and this is something that's been discussed um there
00:30:09
have been many reports of this over the last several months Ukrainian Prova had a story about that but now there's yet
00:30:15
another confirmation that such a deal was available and yet Boris Johnson and Joe Biden said no we want to pressure
00:30:22
Putin not uh work out a peace deal with him and so thanks to Western intervention that deal never happened
00:30:31
now we're 20 months later and the Ukrainian counter offensive has failed it's been a fiasco the casualties have
00:30:37
been absolutely massive horrifying you saw there was this article on Time Magazine this new profile of zalinski
00:30:45
where his own AIDS and advisers say that he's delusional he can't accept that they're losing the war they furthermore
00:30:51
say that even if the US provides more weapons more Aid they don't have enough men they have enough soldiers to use
00:30:56
them things are going that badly I think there's now a fear that Ukraine could collapse in the next year even if we
00:31:02
provide more Aid so I guess you know I know that early on in the war you supported Biden's policy I'm wondering
00:31:09
have events on the ground now changed your view at all how do you feel about it today do you think it was a mistake
00:31:14
not to try and work out a peace deal in those early months of the war and if you
00:31:19
were president what would you try and do differently now to try and end this thing well first of all I think we have
00:31:25
to back up to 2014 to talk about this David um you know first of all I I I've seen that reporting I I do not have
00:31:33
confirmation of the validity of that uh and and and if I did I could talk about it more directly but if that's the truth
00:31:40
uh I would first ask did that include Crimea and secondly it is not the it's not a United States decision about
00:31:47
whether or not Ukraine should agree to a peace deal it is uh Ukraine's decision plain and simple but I I do want to turn
00:31:53
back the clock a little bit because I think this all kind of plays together but by the way didn't it didn't includea
00:31:58
but zinsky was willing to go for that deal and it was the West who intervene and said no we want you to pressure
00:32:04
Putin and fight David like I said you know I never speak to unless I can verify that myself and I've not seen
00:32:10
that intelligence in the skiff I've not seen that presented to me uh if and by the way there are some times where I
00:32:15
don't know most times none of us know everything uh if that is the case I would absolutely answer this question
00:32:22
differently but based on what I do know uh I want to turn back the clock to 2014
00:32:27
you know this is where foreign policy matters you know President Obama was a great aor I think a a inspirational
00:32:33
leader you know he came to the US Presidency with only organizing State Legislative and a couple or few years of
00:32:40
Senate experience uh as a very young man and Joe Biden was his vice president and
00:32:46
when Vladimir Putin took Crimea uh easily you know that set the tone for what's going on right now and we have
00:32:54
not done a very good job of prevention that's true in health care that is true in poverty that is true in our foreign
00:33:02
policy which is by the way maybe what happens when you spend 83 billion a year on on uh diplomacy and 850 billion a
00:33:10
year on bombs and missiles not to mention go back to Eisenhower in the military-industrial complex David and
00:33:16
you all know this it does it controls a lot of our policy because those who are making great profit find ways to
00:33:23
influence those who open the piggy banks I think the Crimea uh moment in 2014 the
00:33:29
writing was on the wall that was Putin's test if I take an inch well maybe they'll give me a mile and what happened
00:33:35
during the Biden presidency of course he took the mile uh I think it has implications now though David and all of
00:33:40
you you know if we do not do our best to support Ukraine and defending I think it
00:33:46
doesn't just send a message to Putin a postp Putin Russia which is going to be a failed nation with a brain drain and
00:33:52
something we should talk about but also sends a message to Iran North Korea and and even China and I want to talk about
00:33:58
that too because I think we have a much brighter future with them than most people portray as it relates to Taiwan
00:34:04
and that's the sad truth is we get ourselves into these situations that then layer up the consequences by
00:34:11
withdrawing and Afghanistan was another example of that so to answer your question had there been a peace deal at
00:34:16
that point that simply would have and the deal would have been will'll give you your territory back in return for
00:34:22
not uh entering NATO who in their right mind would say that was a bad deal who in their right mind especially bis
00:34:29
Johnson well well by the way that's what you get when you get people like well I'm going to make this case as you guys
00:34:35
know for comprehensive new generation of leaders all around the world in our country and in others that are sick of
00:34:41
this nonsense sick of the Bloodshed sick of enriching Enterprise at the expense of human beings it happens here it
00:34:47
happens in Ukraine and Russia and it's happening in the Middle East plain and simple sax anything else on foreign
00:34:54
policy you want to go to packing half now would be I think a shameful horrible mistake the one thing I would argue
00:35:01
right now David is those who are most likely going to be subject to Putin's Terror the countries in Europe should be
00:35:09
carrying a much bigger bigger part of this load you know we have 750 faces and installations Around the
00:35:16
World in 80 countries we are the most dominant presence in world history of any government and we spend more on our
00:35:23
military than the next I think 11 Nations combined for gas akes you know and and if anyone thinks that a kinetic
00:35:30
risk to the United States is the most likely harm that will be done us not cyber or not social or not biological I
00:35:38
think you're out of your mind uh those are the risks that I think are most threatening that I think this President
00:35:43
does not quite understand and we have to rec comprise and recommit to diplomacy and defending ourselves against the most
00:35:50
important literal risks including nuclear weapons that can be carried in a backpack and debt ated in New York or
00:35:57
Tel Aviv or anywhere in the world and if we don't start changing how we do things
00:36:03
we're not going to be ready and we are just sitting still in dysfunction okay I'm going to change it let's talk about
00:36:10
China for one second and I'll I'll give it to you in two arcs Arc number one the
00:36:15
comments that President G made yesterday which were very if you just heard them or read them were very specific we have
00:36:24
zero desire to seek Chinese ofmany we have zero desire to find a cold or hot War which was but then there is what
00:36:35
wasn't said which is part of what you said which is well okay maybe there's no kinetic War but the Cyber risk is still
00:36:42
there and actually the psychological War risk is there so two questions one is how do you react to What president G
00:36:52
said last night and then the second is how do you react to what's happening with this Tick Tock Osama Bin Laden scop
00:36:59
thing that just seems to be frankly just getting out of control here I agree well
00:37:05
let me say I was so pleased to see President she's remarks um I think President Biden responded by saying we
00:37:11
should trust but verify I think that's appropriate I was troubled though when a question was shouted out to President
00:37:17
Biden on his way out about um whether he considered president she a dictator and
00:37:21
he said yes he's a dictator and I think that may have undermined this entire um ront which I think is is terribly
00:37:28
important you know words matter uh The Playbook matters and the negligence or ignorance of another culture as it
00:37:38
digests our words our actions our intentions is very consequential and unfortunately we see this pattern with
00:37:46
the president of doing what he did uh today uh in using that term whether or not it's really true or not there are
00:37:53
ways as we all know to simply not comment because that is going to undermine I think a very important
00:37:59
otherwise very promising outcome and you know to your to your to your question um
00:38:06
I'm concerned that we have made China perhaps into the very enemy that ostensibly now our military inustrial
00:38:12
complex wants to defend us from which happens time and time and time again through our history and it concerns me
00:38:20
deeply we should be partnering with China uh our our disagreements are real I think they should be l ated uh and
00:38:28
bridged with diplomacy not destruction uh and imagine what can be accomplished in this 21st century world if two
00:38:35
Nations like ours uh recognize the potential of spending Less on destruction uh and more uh on human
00:38:43
beings you know it astounds me do you think Tik Tock itself is a thre to the United States you if you're a president
00:38:51
ban it or force them to divest and remove the servers in China and the algorithm from China Etc I'll make this
00:38:57
actually being used for scops I'll make this really simple you know if we want to change our Constitution and change
00:39:03
what we consider speech uh change how the federal government or any uh domestic government affects people's
00:39:11
rights to what they watch what they read what they eat how they pray how they think where they go with whom they
00:39:16
congregate you know what that's up to Americans but I think to Target one app is a huge mistake and my I have a very
00:39:24
simple solution hold every single platform to the same standard uh transparency uh via their algorithm have
00:39:33
an independent commission perhaps that is charged and responsible with assessing um and and holding those
00:39:39
platforms to account and if any of them violate the terms that we pass into law then they should be banned but to Target
00:39:47
one I think it's non have foreign ownership rules for media Outlets yeah so this has many more users and is much
00:39:54
more powerful with the algorithm so then how would you respond to that sort of counterargument I'm just going to say
00:40:00
this if we want to change our constitution this is what the Supreme Court I'm afraid it's going to say if we
00:40:05
start doing this then change the Constitution that's what they said by the way about uh women's Reproductive
00:40:10
Rights you know in the absence of Congress doing anything in the absence of that we're going to assess it the way
00:40:16
it it reads right now I don't think that's necessarily really possible without a significant Supreme Court
00:40:21
challenge my belief is yes is it a threat yes it's a threat by the way every social media plat form is a threat
00:40:28
when used by malign actors you should force reciprocity if they if we allow Tik Tok they allow Twitter Facebook
00:40:35
Instagram I think that's that's the kind of thinking Jason I like in fact reciprocity as it relates to IP
00:40:41
enforcement of Ip uh of of theft uh of trade this is to that's you just hit the nail in the head reciprocity you know
00:40:49
let's let's let's be reciprocal in the nature of a relationship if you're going to ban our apps and our platforms or our
00:40:55
products or Our Brands well why this is to me an opportunity for the Next Generation to say this is nonsensical
00:41:03
you know if you're going to Su by the way China you all know has sign they have a they have a bubble they're facing
00:41:08
that will make ours in 2008 uh look like a a gumball by comparison uh and that is
00:41:14
coming down the pipe I think that has a lot to do with this kind of step towards
00:41:18
rosmont but yes reciprocity and to know that Facebook is not allowed uh yeah perfect example but in the United States
00:41:26
doesn't change my uh contention that we should set the same standard for every platform every every media entity
00:41:33
whatever it might be hold them accountable and if they don't qualify or perform then they're banned give us your
00:41:38
just maybe societal then commentary on the number of people on Tik Tok right now it's sickening advocating
00:41:48
for I don't even know what you want to call it I guess reading and sympathizing it's first of all I'm sure
00:41:56
guys do too I I I look at Tik Tok I consume as much media as many platforms as possible so I understand why some of
00:42:03
the nonsensical perspectives are being shared with me by so many people right now so I get it your fun but back to the
00:42:10
fundamental question what do we do this has been by the way an age-old issue since our very founding it used to be
00:42:15
anonymous pamphlets that would spread misinformation or condemnation and and fire people up now it's just instantly
00:42:22
available it doesn't matter if you have a printer you can push a button and yes am I concerned of course I am I'm the
00:42:28
fact that when I'm spending time on college campuses right now and listening uh to otherwise really well-educated
00:42:34
privileged kids saying things that are so non-sensible so ignorant and so shocking I know where it's coming from
00:42:42
uh so I understand the problem just like all of you I think this question is what
00:42:46
do you do about it and all I'm saying is we should have the same standard for every platform because the same issue is
00:42:51
on every platform that is my only what do you think about you're about to say this but what do you think about what
00:42:56
Nikki Haley suggested I you know I I was shocked that people um maybe just frame
00:43:02
for the for the listeners who don't know what she said so Nikki Haley and I tell
00:43:05
I asked Mark Zuckerberg this one so too I'll tell you Nikki Haley proposed uh that every platform every social media
00:43:12
platform have verified accounts no more Anonymous accounts and she got ripped got ripped you know I understand this is
00:43:21
this is It's a reasonable argument to have but I got to tell you I'm surprised that that something that seemed somewhat
00:43:26
reasonable to people who are paying attention would have such a uh such a response that she actually retracted it
00:43:32
I'm not proposing it I'm just saying that I think we should be throwing ideas on the table and I know from experience
00:43:37
just like you guys when you hide behind a fake name you can be not just a jerk to someone you can be downright
00:43:43
dangerous when your name's attached to it you behave in a very different manner not a mention when you're face to face
00:43:49
so um I don't think that was as absurd as uh people considered it I asked Mark Zuckerberg after a financial services
00:43:55
hearing a couple coup years ago you know why why doesn't Facebook just verify accounts make this so much easier to
00:44:00
hold people accountable and um have higher standards of um accountability and he said it would be a competitive
00:44:08
disadvantage of course it is if he only had to do it yeah and this has been tested Korea had their version of this
00:44:15
in order to sign up in Korea for their social networks or isps you had to use your Social Security num sure that makes
00:44:21
sense and the other thing guys is you know that you know if you write a a letter to the editor of most major
00:44:25
newspapers you have to you have to attach your name to it it has to be verified it's this I I just think it's a
00:44:32
conversation that we should be having and by the way you know it might be time to read Future Shock Again by Alvin
00:44:37
Toffler who predicted so much of this mess in which we find ourselves the incapacity of human beings to adapt to
00:44:44
such rapid technological change which by the way you know you on this you just a
00:44:50
handful of you on this um on this podcast have more expertise than the entire United States Senate and Congress
00:44:59
combined as it relates to the issues we're talking about on tech there is no capacity no competency so on whom do we
00:45:06
rely the very lobbyists being paid by the very Enterprises that so easily can set the standards right if there aren't
00:45:13
people of better capacity and only 11 members of Congress have an engineering degree only 11 by the way I was I was on
00:45:20
uh Kevin McCarthy invited me to join his AI cabinet uh which just it was a few four Democrats about four Republicans we
00:45:28
had our first meeting and started making plans right before he was deposed and now I don't know anything if anything's
00:45:34
going on in that respect where do you stand on the spectrum of decorum online on one end and free speech on the other
00:45:42
where the absolutist would say absolutely not verified accounts as a non-starter because it just
00:45:48
fundamentally undermines the First Amendment and this other thing which is more organized deorum jamath it's it I
00:45:55
think that's the issue of our day maybe the most important one it's true both online it's also true in our Congress
00:46:00
right now where is that intersection between debate and Discord and um and comprehensive division um I I don't have
00:46:09
the good answer for it right now is the truth and I'm I'm afraid that if you interpret our constitution um you know
00:46:14
Free Speech has to be met with more Free Speech but I'll tell you but that also will conflict and increasingly is uh
00:46:22
with the right to pursue happiness I mean that's just true I mean I it it's a it's a it's the most complicated issue
00:46:29
in our era would I like to see our kids safer our mental health and emotional health improve and the division reduced
00:46:36
and misinformation and disinformation um rectified of course because I do think would you put a minimum age on use of
00:46:42
social networks you have kids would you make it 15 16 years old I think it would
00:46:46
be healthier look we we have minimum age for alcohol that's you know that's older
00:46:51
than you have to be to fight in a war for God's sakes it's ridiculous you you we have cannabis is cannabis is still
00:46:57
banned at the federal the hypocrisy of the federal government is also what I'm running against right now so Jason I
00:47:03
think that is a good idea you know this and I've had daughters that grew up in the social media era it is one of the
00:47:09
most destructive it is far it is as destructive as I think drug consumption to adolescent Health as anything else so
00:47:16
to answer your question I think that's a perfectly legal B perfectly reasonable and you can't just entrust parents to do
00:47:22
it because Johnny's parents will allow him to have the phone and the apps you know and jills won't and they can't
00:47:28
there has to be I think there has to be we do that for a lot of other things and
00:47:31
I think we should talk about at what age any of this is reasonable but absolutely
00:47:35
I think that's not unreasonable I want kids to be safe just like you guys and so does sounds like driving a car is a
00:47:40
good bench for 15 16 17 years old yeah we should also allow kids to learn how to drink before they learn how to drive
00:47:45
we're the only country that does it like this you know drive for five years until
00:47:49
you legally can drink so when you have your first drink you don't even know what it's going to do to you you know
00:47:52
it's it's absurd fre um I know we're going to talk about about spending in a second but just before we get away from
00:47:58
foreign policy I think it's important that we ask what would be your goals with respect to conflict in the Middle
00:48:05
East what's the strategy you'd employ to achieve those goals and who are the people that you'd surround yourself with
00:48:11
well I'll tell you you know my strategy is quite simple it's peace around the world and it's Prosperity at home uh
00:48:16
plain and simple and and I can build I can put the legs of that stool together for you uh as quickly as I I possibly
00:48:22
can but let's talk about the Middle East you know I'm 54 years old President Biden has been in the US Senate or in
00:48:29
the white house for 50 years uh none of us on this podcast have live through anything but Bloodshed uh reciprocal
00:48:37
misery between Palestinians and Israelis this cycle has continued for decades I've had enough I cannot stand the sight
00:48:44
uh of of babies being pulled from the the wombs of mothers by Hamas in Israel any more than I can watch babies being
00:48:52
destroyed by bombs and missiles in Gaza and it's got to stop uh I am about to issue a statement to that end uh that
00:49:00
says essentially Hamas must release all of its hostages period of which there are nine Americans guys nine Americans
00:49:08
are being held in Gaza by a terrorist organization and as president I would be making that my not my daily uh desire or
00:49:16
request my daily demand all hands on deck these hostages must be released immediately would you send in Special
00:49:22
Forces to collect them I would absolutely it is the it is incumbent on the president of the United States to
00:49:27
extract Americans being held against their will by any foreign entity I don't know got to ask him but good luck asking
00:49:34
him because he doesn't do any press conferences the goal for peace is is reasonable but but be like maybe some
00:49:39
specifics around your your strategy so let me yeah let me so okay so first at the at the moment the hostages are
00:49:45
safely released there should be a ceasefire period and at that very moment there should be a multinational
00:49:51
peacekeeping Force sent into Gaza to maintain security immediately when when I say multinational the very Nations
00:49:58
that are connected to Gaza Arab Nations have to be part of it not the United States not Israel of course but a
00:50:03
significant Force there to keep the peace immediately concurrently a multinational Coalition designed to
00:50:09
eliminate Hamas by every nation in the world that wants them eliminated which frankly is most and then we have got to
00:50:16
invest again uh nations of the world investing in a democratic Civil Society infrastructure education facilities and
00:50:26
security so that a new generation of Palestinian leaders can create a circumstance whereby another Nation can
00:50:33
be created period and it's not going to happen with Israel and Palestinians trying to do this it has got to be
00:50:38
imposed it has got to be a coalition of the Willing uh and then only then and only then will we see the conditions for
00:50:46
hopefully elections for Palestinians for the first time since 2006 17 years and concurrently it is time for Israelis to
00:50:54
call in election to replace Benjamin Netanyahu because he is absolutely part of Israel's security problem I've looked
00:51:02
him in the eye I told him before this happened earlier this year I've been with him twice looked him in the eye I
00:51:07
said what you are doing is affecting the relationship with the United States and
00:51:12
Israel and will absolutely affect security moving forward I had no idea what would be coming in October 7th but
00:51:18
the settlement policy the right-wing government the distraction that the judicial reform initiative has created
00:51:25
in that country is made the conditions ripe and by the way having been in Riad recently too you know it was really
00:51:32
getting close the Sai and Israel normalizing and that was exactly why I I believe whether implicit or explicit
00:51:39
Iran inspired Hamas to do this then and by the way in the United States mark my words there are our adversaries are
00:51:47
watching the dysfunction and distraction right now with the same open eyes and we
00:51:53
have borders that are awfully easily to get in and that's the truth and I'm a Democrat saying that I would do this
00:51:59
entirely differently can you actually talk about the Border tell us what what would you do there once again I've got a
00:52:04
lot of colleagues who make their decisions by reading an article seeing a tweet or seeing a Tik Tok uh I go you
00:52:12
know I've been to Israel in the Middle East twice just in the last number of months I've been to the southern border
00:52:17
twice I've seen with my own eyes it is the most despicable embarrassing failure of American policy I have ever seen uh I
00:52:25
have seen women walking across the Rio Grand with babies in their arms who have spent six or
00:52:31
$7,000 their whole life savings pay to gangs and and coyotes to bring them across the border I've seen the
00:52:39
extraordinary beauty and Grace with which border patrol agents have looked after these people I've seen babies who
00:52:44
were abandoned that were on 24-hour care of border patrol agents who uh took as good a care of these little kids as as
00:52:51
they would their own I saw people in cages I saw the most archaic out ofd inefficient ineffective ports of Entry I
00:52:59
saw lines of of of trailer trucks probably two three miles long idling in the hot hot weather waiting to get
00:53:07
across I saw a mile long of human beings waiting to come into the country to do their shopping or their job or their
00:53:15
education and it was horrifying and if we think by the way we need much better border security barriers Technologies uh
00:53:23
and facilities and by the way we also needed at the northern border I'm a border state in Minnesota people walk
00:53:28
across Farm fields in Manitoba into Minnesota we don't know who they are some of them get caught that's true but
00:53:34
I'll tell you guys if we think that we can solve the problem at the border that's the issue right there this
00:53:39
Administration and past ones just don't get it we should be adjudicating Asylum cases in countries of origin why make
00:53:47
these poor people take their life savings that they have no then they have no money they're set off in the streets
00:53:51
here they're supposed to come back to a court uh two years from now let them keep their money let's build dormitories
00:53:58
next to our consulates or our embassies in the northern triangle countries wherever migrants are coming create some
00:54:03
safety security there invest in local economy so that there can be some opportunity and adjudicate their cases
00:54:09
there if they qualify let's bring them to America with six or 7,000 in their pocket so they can start a nice New Life
00:54:17
and pursue the American dream and if they don't they will be kept in their countries of origin and of course we
00:54:22
have to work with Mexico as well but this is not rocket science it's simple problem solving and the fact that we
00:54:27
continue to do this stupid policy to this day you guys is on the other side of this talk about recruiting many
00:54:34
countries Canada New Zealand a lot of the nordics have a point-based system and they actively recruit Talent you're
00:54:40
an entrepreneur you've been CEO of multiple companies it is an absolute arduous pain to get talented people here
00:54:46
right now recruitment of talent in the United States is bundled with the southern border how would you decouple
00:54:52
that would you be in favor of a pointbase system in recruitment of talent to get more talented immigrants
00:54:58
in our country which by the way three of the four besties here were not born in the United States and which is an and
00:55:03
and by the way my four mothers and forefathers came here for the same reasons same reasons that every one of
00:55:07
those moms and dads is coming across the Rio Grand so I to answer your question directly Jason I think I think we can do
00:55:13
both I think we should have a merit-based system to attract the best and brightest and most talented I'm sure
00:55:17
all of you had came from Enterprises that would afford benefits perhaps education to people you would expect
00:55:23
them to actually stay at your Enterprise for a number of years to kind of as a payback we are right now the United
00:55:28
States is training some of the best and brightest in the world not creating opportunities to stay and of course
00:55:33
Canada is the beneficiary the Nordic countries European countries you guys know this this notion that we can't do
00:55:39
two things at once that we can't welcome uh the most disadvantaged who simply want to pursue an American Dream and
00:55:46
start at the very bottom and match that with some of the best and brightest who can actually start at the very top my
00:55:51
goodness why why does everything have to be binary you guys black and white good
00:55:55
or bad yes or no it's nonsense before we run out of time oh darn it's way too short no no no for you we got a little I
00:56:03
got more hey I got time guys okay great we really want to talk I got time yeah freeberg and I are I think freeberg you
00:56:12
know moved me to his position on this number one issue for this election freeberg correct me if I'm wrong for you
00:56:17
is still our out of control spending maybe you could te this up yeah I mean I I've said this in the past I think the
00:56:24
US is facing emergency in the sense that arithmetic starts to play out that the cost of debt
00:56:30
spirals we can't accomplish any of the other stuff we're talking about unless we can figure this out we have $33
00:56:34
trillion of debt today the treasury estimates it's going to grow to 47 trillion by 2033 just 10 years away y
00:56:42
one and a half trillion in deficit this year trillion in debt interest expense alone this year and a third of our debt
00:56:48
is coming up to be refinanced soon it's going to get refinanced at 4 and a half%
00:56:52
interest rate instead of two two and a half% it's sitting at today so the interest will swell the deficit will
00:56:57
swell the debt will swell and we're already taxing 18% of GDP as federal revenue which a lot of economists have
00:57:05
shown you can only get to 20% at which point economy starts to shrink there's I think pretty good research on this some
00:57:11
would argue differently but I think that's kind of a natural limit so the only kind of response is what's
00:57:18
wrong with spending like why why do why do we have the spending problem I guess the question for you is what is causing
00:57:26
structurally the spending problem a lot of people have said that this is late stage Empire the failure of democracy
00:57:32
because everyone votes themselves all the money eventually or is it a politically oriented problem where folks
00:57:38
don't want to address the biggest line items they don't want to hold programs to account and what is the answer here
00:57:45
so to answer your question directly that you ask what the cause is it's incompetency and perverse
00:57:51
incentives period there is no political there used to be a political reward for conservatives who were focused on fiscal
00:57:58
responsibility because they would win elections over tax and Spenders but that party is long gone long gone there's no
00:58:06
reward that's why Trump added $7 trillion to the deficit and that's why Biden will probably end you know add
00:58:11
about that much as well so uh by the way I think I'm one of the only Democrats who has both has been named by the
00:58:17
committee for a responsible federal budget one of their fiscal Heroes as a Democrat and also um I'm a ham Hamil I'm
00:58:25
sorry Hamilton Jefferson Award winner by the US Chamber of Commerce and I'm also
00:58:29
pro-worker I this notion that you can't be by the way Pro business and pro worker that they're somehow mutually
00:58:34
exclusive uh that's BS they're they're mutually mandatory but back to your question 33 trillion in debt by the way
00:58:40
our economy can accommodate more that's the sad truth the issue is our debt service and nobody's talking about the
00:58:46
fact that it is going to go from the mid 400 billion a year to to your point Dave
00:58:50
with the higher interest rates probably approaching a trillion maybe 840 over a is a trilon one today it's going to be a
00:58:57
trillion I don't I I I would argue that maybe I I we could have a little argument about if it's there quite yet
00:59:03
but none the either way let's call it let's call it a trillion that mean that means literally that means literally we
00:59:09
are spending way more for the past than we are investing in the future that means we have literally no dollars left
00:59:16
for any discretionary spending every bit of it is now consumed by Social Security
00:59:20
Medicare and our military and and we're and on top of that we've got people sleeping in on the
00:59:28
streets in every single town and city in America we have kids going to school hungry we have one of the most to me
00:59:35
failing Public School Systems in the entire developed world we have a Health Care system that is not healthare it's
00:59:41
sickcare a fee for service model that should be capitated and and our outcomes are mid-pack yeah and we have A2
00:59:48
trillion deficit and by the way no child care no pre education my I can go on down the list it's nonsens and we're
00:59:55
spending 2 trillion more so to answer your question you you guys know the answer here you we're a country with I
01:00:01
think 15 some million trillion dollars 150 some trillion dollars in total United States household wealth where do
01:00:10
you cut let's start let's start by getting into those specifics do you cut entitlements do you cut military where
01:00:17
do you cut and how do you cut so here's what I would do starting with Social Security it Social Security you guys is
01:00:23
the most successful anti-poverty program in world history uh and I believe it would be not just a der elction of Duty
01:00:31
it would be counter to every American principle uh if senior citizens struggled by the way we don't
01:00:38
have a culture in America that takes care of the elders like in most Asian cultures and other uh wonderful cultures
01:00:44
in the world so absent that we have to afford resources so two things as you all know Social Security the trust fund
01:00:51
will uh face probably reductions in 25 about 25% cut Levels by 2033 based on the current path two two easy things we
01:01:00
can do $160,000 year is the cap right now I think roughly we should make that 250 that means it's a very regressive
01:01:08
tax if you're making 160 you're paying a whole lot more of your income than someone making $250 $300,000 a year not
01:01:14
to mention 3 million or 30 million so we should raise the cap to 250 make sure that fund at least is um solvent through
01:01:22
probably 2046 2047 and then I would do something different for the first time in American history for all the millions
01:01:28
of Americans who've done well uh don't need their social security that wish to become philanthropists I would create a
01:01:35
pool not that goes back to the treasury a pool that would be automatically redistributed to the lowest 5 or 10% of
01:01:43
all Social Security recipients in the entire country and let's say it might be a $500 boost it might be a $1,000 boost
01:01:50
a year for the for the most challenged uh elderly Americans but but when 40% of Americans can't afford a $400 car repair
01:01:58
or emergency expense you know that literally not for this group but no to your to your point I think it was the
01:02:05
fed or it was treasury that published a study I was shocked by the actual number
01:02:09
of American millionaires that exist and it it's countered to the narrative because you would right if you if you
01:02:16
just read the headlines you think America's an economic Despair and it's not true and the wealth creation is
01:02:22
actually quite quite pervasive which is a great feature of American capitalism so to your point totally probably are a
01:02:28
lot of people who would be willing to pay it forward to folks that didn't have it if you gave them the choice it's just
01:02:34
not possible today so why shouldn't we be a government that creates so just shath if I could just say you know one
01:02:38
of my one of my perspectives and intentions is to not necess by the way we don't have to spend money to expose
01:02:46
young people who never get out of their neighborhoods in many cities in this country expose them to possibility you
01:02:52
know get them into factories into ad agencies into Hightech centers show them rockets and and Music Makers and artists
01:03:01
we don't we don't need to spend a whole lot more money to Simply completely change the path of Young Americans lives
01:03:08
not to mention old Americans lives and that's just a perfect example of a simple solution that costs zero and lets
01:03:15
Americans actually be Americans okay so now now go to Medicare but I think I know what you're going to say because
01:03:22
you mentioned it capitation but maybe talked very quickly on that and then military what what do you cut through
01:03:27
yeah so so quickly on Healthcare look guys I I represent United Health Group in my district tens of thousands of
01:03:34
motans many of them who live in my district earn very handsome salaries from United they've done some great work
01:03:40
uh in many ways but I have to tell you uh since I've joined Congress in my third term now uh you would be in tears
01:03:48
if you had to sit with the people that I've sat with over so many occasions who thought they had coverage whose son got
01:03:55
sick or whose you know whose mother broke a leg or something and they literally have gone bankrupt or take on
01:04:02
tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt and they get surprise bills and then they read in the paper that their
01:04:08
health insurer reported annual net income of over $20 billion and I don't know how you guys
01:04:14
feel but I got to tell you you know I'm a capitalist uh I'm also compassionate and I can no longer reconcile that I
01:04:21
really can't there's a reason we're the only nation in the world that does it this way I think it's time to wait by
01:04:26
the way from Roosevelt to Truman to Richard Nixon Richard Nixon proposed universal health coverage and it was Ted
01:04:33
Kennedy that undermined it if you can imagine that if we don't if conservatives and progressives don't
01:04:38
come to the table and talk about how we can deliver a national health insurance program that is portable uh let's gig
01:04:45
economy participants do their thing that people don't have to make choices about
01:04:48
where to work just because of the healthcare I don't know why we wouldn't talk about that and by the way I'm not
01:04:53
talking about the provision of care it's really important because Fox News and some Republicans have tried to say this
01:04:58
is a socialized solution uh-uh just the coverage because the money is in the system already between uh 3 four 5 6X
01:05:06
Pharma costs between 2X Health per capit Health cost 10,000 per person compared to any country in the world at five the
01:05:14
answer is I think right there in front of us the money's in the system would not require a tax increase I think we
01:05:19
could actually save substantial money I'm working on a proposition right now I would argue that the model is part of
01:05:25
the problem fee for service is antithetical to what we need we need a capitated model that gives an incentive
01:05:31
to the uh uh to the providers to keep people out of the hospital at least try at least try so that's the answer on
01:05:38
that uh and by the way you know right now Medicare as you probably know it cover I think 23% of the of the country
01:05:45
or no between Medicare and the VA which are Single Payer systems 25% of Americans right now are covered by a
01:05:52
single-payer system and by the way it works better than the other system Medicare recipients are pretty pleased
01:05:59
this would also be a huge benefit as a capitalist running companies I mean how much of your time was spent running your
01:06:05
companies dealing with Healthcare and the dysfunction of employees staying at companies because they couldn't awful
01:06:11
get Healthcare in another company what about military team what would you do that okay now military and this is where
01:06:16
how to answer your question very directly once again nobody can tell you that they can even begin to address our
01:06:22
fiscal challenges with without looking at that ridiculous number approaching a trillion dollars a year uh and by the
01:06:30
way the Pentagon has not passed an audit they would in my Administration it would
01:06:36
there would be a top- down assessment of every single program every single base and facility every an explanation of why
01:06:43
we are in those 80 Nations and whether or not we should be employing 21st century strategies to keep our country
01:06:50
safe and I think one of the simplest Solutions you guys is we should be entrusting countries more approximate to
01:06:57
the problems to manage them doesn't mean we're not a good Ally anymore it just doesn't mean that we are in a position
01:07:03
any longer to be the policeman for the entire world when we can barely take damn care of our country
01:07:10
itself it's just so damn simple and I'm frustrated by it because as someone who lost his father in a completely
01:07:17
obnoxious and unnecessary War a guy that I have on my phone right now digital audio tapes that he used to send back
01:07:24
tapes to my mom where he says I've come to the conclusion and he loved America he did not like that war but he loved
01:07:31
America he said I believe the only reason we're still here is because so many people are making so much money he
01:07:38
saw it and the same thing is happening to this day you guys that trillion dollars that's going somewhere it's
01:07:44
going in people's pockets and I believe we can cut that in I I'm not going to make a proposition but I believe after a
01:07:49
comprehensive assessment that we can save hundreds of billions of dollars that can either be saved on the bottom
01:07:55
line or better yet actually invested in human beings instead of the destruction of them period would you zero based
01:08:02
budget the absolutely how why Chim I I've had to go back to Washington twice to vote on CRS continuing resolutions
01:08:11
yeah it is the dysfunction is absurd there's not a there maybe five people that can read a p&l or a balance sheet
01:08:17
in the whole damn Congress uh our budgeting system is completely broken and yes as president I would Dem and a
01:08:24
zerob based budgeting and and uh um uh procedure and like I said a comprehensive independent assessment of
01:08:33
every program and if it is not generating a return or if it could be outsourced to the private sector that
01:08:39
can deliver it for better value uh that's how we should proceed and by the way it may not be easy it may take time
01:08:45
to get done but why we don't try is absurd and to answer your final question if we don't uh and once foreign
01:08:52
investors no longer consider the United States of America the safest place to deploy Capital it's too late and I will
01:08:58
not certainly under my watch will not let us get there but we've got to recraft and and lastly can I say one
01:09:04
more thing quick on that jth please if the only way that I think we can address the biggest issue in the country which
01:09:11
is the growing disparity between those who have wealth and income and those that do not we can we're not a nation
01:09:19
that will redistribute I think we've been not just unsuccessful we actually created some of the problems we now find
01:09:24
ourselves in the way to do it is to raise the foundation the same way it was raised for me by a good a stroke of good
01:09:31
luck you know I was adopted by a dad who gave me everything and who knows where I
01:09:36
would have been if that didn't happen I want to do the same thing for everybody have health care have great education
01:09:43
have child care make sure you have a house a place to live if we give everybody the same thing then we can be
01:09:49
a country that believes in self-determination and talk about education then briefly so if the
01:09:55
spectrum is the teachers union on one end of the spectrum and VI ramaswami who would dismantle the Department of
01:10:03
Education at the federal level and just push all the responsibility to the states with the voucher program he
01:10:08
talked about it here once where are you and what what's your what's your philosophy on the state of the education
01:10:13
I I I I would say I'm in the middle because I think there's some TR I think there's some worthiness to both of those
01:10:19
perspectives what would I do I would fundamentally reinvent American public education with the best and the
01:10:25
brightest with students with teachers with families with the nonprofit sector and the business sector because right
01:10:31
now business needs to participate in 21st century education to advise the teachers and the administrators and the
01:10:38
curricula um designers what skills they need they're not even part of the conversation you guys I don't why you
01:10:45
think that why do you think that there are certain places Progressive liberal bastions if you will that have been the
01:10:52
first to dism things like stem and AP classes why why is that happening I wish I had a good I wish I had a good answer
01:10:59
for that it's appalling but but I do have a good solution I'm sure like you guys you all know this the single most
01:11:06
important determinant of a child's success educationally is the quality of their educator every single study says
01:11:12
the same thing the United States of America right now we pay about 81% of the per capita GDP uh to teachers for
01:11:20
for compensation the best performing systems the world and there is a correlation pay 120 130 sometimes 140
01:11:28
140% of their per capita GDP they make teaching one of the most admired elevated professions in their Nation
01:11:35
they identify great teachers when they're still young and I think we should be a nation that does the same
01:11:40
thing we're not attracting the best and brightest any longer when Teach for America teachers outperform teachers who
01:11:46
have tenure or been at it for 10 20 30 years does that not say the quality matters it's not the school how it looks
01:11:53
um but anyway I would reinvent and the other thing is this you and I'm sure like you guys I remember a couple
01:11:58
teachers that made a huge difference in my life and they're about 50 I could barely remember at all they should all
01:12:03
be those two and then furthermore if you think sitting in front of a Blackboard uh is the way to teach kids in this day
01:12:09
and age no you got to get out of the school you got to look at Scandinavian countries and Asian countries and how
01:12:14
experiential learning uh learning learning from the best most extraordinary Educators in the world
01:12:20
through screens on occasion but to experience you know AI is going to fundamentally change employment as we
01:12:26
know it we have nobody in Washington that gets it we need an Administration in 20124 that does and begins to Simply
01:12:35
Rectify all these problems anticipating the change that's coming this Administration is not going to do it and
01:12:40
education should be redesigned can based on the change we know is coming and I don't have all the answers but I know a
01:12:48
lot of people out in California and around the country and around the world who could help
01:12:52
us AI or is it no no you I I think it should be I think it should be very you know Jason I would say right now it
01:12:59
should be very limited and and and this is where back to the conversation about um Anonymous accounts we do have to set
01:13:07
I think some standards and penalties for nefarious use of AI if we don't do that
01:13:11
early and set the tone I think it will get out of control so to me that's all we should do right now uh and let it
01:13:18
grow let it expand uh let large Enterprises and small come up with extraordinary ways to save money by the
01:13:24
way AI is going to save extraordinary sums of money for the federal government and health care for businesses we can
01:13:31
anticipate how employment will change and what jobs will be jobs of the future uh but if we don't think about that now
01:13:38
we're going to do what Congress always does get caught off guard have to come in on a midnight ill-prepared with a
01:13:44
thousand page bill that nobody understands because it was ritten by a lobbyist that had skin in the game and
01:13:49
does not serve America and that maybe wraps up this whole conversation yeah I'm just not sure folks really
01:13:55
understand in Congress what they're doing no this front like the difference between foundational models and the
01:14:04
utilization of those models in an endpoint are very different regimes to think about regulation and they're not
01:14:13
even that that that framework isn't even understood not at all we're not even talking about regulating outcomes no or
01:14:21
actions we're talking about regulating the infrastructure that could cause various outcomes regulate I'm very I'm
01:14:29
very much against where this is all evolved to and I think like some folks kind of want to say hey this is a
01:14:33
regulatory capture moment but I want to see someone in Congress stand up and demonstrate an understanding first
01:14:40
before they can even have the right to articulate you know a framework for regulation well I can tell you what
01:14:47
there's one man one Don I want to shout out this guy Don berer is a former US ambassador Democrat from Virginia he
01:14:53
must be 70 he went back to college I think John's Hopkins and just received or is pursuing his degree in artificial
01:15:00
intelligence that's the kind of Representative Isn't that cool you would never know his name because he's not on
01:15:05
you know Fox Remis and BC scre screaming at night but those are the kinds of people that should be celebrated a lot
01:15:11
of my Republican colleagues that got thrown out of Congress because they had the audacity to support the Constitution
01:15:17
uh when Trump was um impeached the second time you know those people I celebrate can I I got to run but can I
01:15:23
tell one quick story to wrap my whole story up and about what I want to try to do you know at the at the end of the day
01:15:30
none of this occurs none of the successes uh none of the policy ideas none of the ideation occurs if we don't
01:15:35
repair uh and that means uh restoring friendships our families our communities and our country uh so I do a series back
01:15:43
home in Minnesota called Common Ground I I get six Democrats and six Republicans
01:15:48
invited to a table we break bread we introduce ourselves tell a little bit of our life stories we talk about
01:15:53
Healthcare policy and we talk about immigration policy which is where everything I shared tonight comes from
01:15:58
both Democrats and Republicans and it's a two-hour session facilitated by an extraordinary group called braver Angels
01:16:05
uh I encourage you to look them up they are remarkable uh doing this work all around the country and at the end of
01:16:10
these sessions we go around the table and each person at the table shares a little bit about what they got out of
01:16:16
this experience and I had an episode not long ago that sums up my whole mission uh a young woman Emily looks across the
01:16:23
table at Dave and says Dave when you drove up in your F-150 with the Trump sticker on it I almost got back in my
01:16:29
car left the parking lot and drove away I could not bear to go in the building let alone sit at a table with you and
01:16:36
she said but I got to say I so loved sitting here and you're a good guy and I I'm I learned something goes around the
01:16:44
table comes to Dave and he looks at Emily and says Emily when you drove up in your Prius I wanted to run it
01:16:50
over and he says and he says but hey I got to tell you Emily I've never met a progressive as cool as you and I really
01:16:58
am glad I came to this today and at that moment Emily and Dave stood up in front
01:17:03
of our table and they embraced and to see a bleeding heart liberal and a died in the wool Trumper do that probably was
01:17:12
the most important moment in my entire career in service if that is the only moment of
01:17:19
its kind in my career in service it would have made it worthwhile and that is exact
01:17:23
what I'm going to inspire as president of the United States get Emily and Dave to hug it out all they have to do is be
01:17:30
invited for a little dinner given some space and place to recognize their common cause and their common ground and
01:17:37
that's how we're going to do this I don't see a candidate right now in the ballot that has that intention has that
01:17:42
capacity uh or has that capability so I just want to thank you guys and last thing and just just yes or no can
01:17:49
everybody expect that you will be on the ballot in every state I can't say I'm going to be in the ballot in every state
01:17:54
jamaath because I don't think it's possible between time and money uh I'm going to have to make some choices and
01:18:00
that's just the sickening truth I will I want to salute Bernie Sanders he actually made it possible for a
01:18:06
candidate like me and probably future candidates who are subject to this nauseating system to actually still
01:18:12
compete and get to the convention and maybe win because he depowered people like me members of Congress that used to
01:18:20
have outsized uh votes uh dis proportionately so versus voters and I celebrate him because he was right I
01:18:28
used to think he was a sore loser Bernie Sanders was absolutely right about a rig
01:18:32
system that is keeping people out of the process keeping candidates out of the process and keeping debate out of the
01:18:38
process so I'm going to be in the most I'm going to be on most ballots uh I've got to raise money and frankly I I hate
01:18:43
to be Shameless but the truth is if we want to get on ballots I need support and it's easy
01:18:49
de24 uh you know I I by the way I'm at 15% in New Hampshire after just 2 weeks we thought it would take six if we were
01:18:56
lucky wow so people can throw 15 bucks our way to get on ballots at de24 comom and by the way Joe Biden
01:19:04
27% 73% of New Hampshire Democratic voters do not want the sitting president of the United States as their nominee
01:19:14
and mark my words we're going to bring change thank you guys all right thank so much thanks for the time peace thank you
01:19:21
very much keep the faith guys I'm love to see you again see you later yeah a great 90 minutes with Dean Phillips
01:19:26
everybody go to de24 if you want to learn more all right besties I think that was another epic discussion with
01:19:34
the presidential candidate what's your thoughts chath you set up this interview where does he stand in your likely votes
01:19:45
for president in 20124 where would you rank him now Andrew Yang texted me like last week and said would you guys do
01:19:52
this and I was really interested because mostly I didn't know where he was coming
01:19:57
from to be totally honest but I think his National visibility is probably going to increase
01:20:03
a lot my reaction is that he is who he says he is which is like kind of down the middle he doesn't
01:20:10
take either extreme and he kind of takes a moderate point of view and says there's a balance of this and that that
01:20:16
can work and that's actually good that he owns that as opposed to it being sort of a consequence or a byproduct of not
01:20:23
getting what he wants he kind of like that is where he starts so I like that about him a lot I
01:20:28
thought he was really candid about what doesn't work I really appreciate that Honesty he's saying some of the right
01:20:36
things around capping Medicare zerob based budgeting the military I think all of those things
01:20:44
right I didn't like to be honest the Free Speech part I thought that that was I don't think you can have some kind of
01:20:51
registry of fa verified accounts or something I just think that's a non-starter for America it's a super
01:20:56
slippery slope but in general I was really impressed and his uh War Stories as a
01:21:04
businessman were pretty cool pretty awesome Sachs what what's your candidate thoughts I'm obviously he's not part of
01:21:11
your political party but where do you think his chances are versus Biden and and how would you uh assess his
01:21:16
performance here today I was pleasantly surprised that he made the case for himself not just based
01:21:24
on Biden's age and the fact that he's 54 but he also I think took a number of interesting policy stances that were a
01:21:32
little different than where Biden is he did it on foreign policy he did it on domestic policy so I think he took a
01:21:38
number of positions that were refreshing and a big one I think relates to his personal story where he talks
01:21:46
about how he lost his father in Vietnam and that that war was kept going much longer than it should have been because
01:21:52
basically the greed of the military-industrial complex and he didn't fully connect the dots all the
01:21:57
way to our present situation in Ukraine but at least I think he would be skeptical of the influence of the mic in
01:22:05
our politics what he said with respect to Ukraine is well he said that it would be shameful to abandon them now but he
01:22:11
also said that if it's true he wasn't willing to concede it because he just didn't know factually but if it's true
01:22:17
that we could have avoided the war by taking NATO expansion off the table then it would only be common sense to do that
01:22:24
I think that when the histories of this are written it's going to be abundantly clear that we could have done precisely
01:22:29
that so his difference of opinion with me isn't in the logic it's just in what in in what facts he knows to be true so
01:22:38
I actually thought that his position there was reasonable you know if it came down to a
01:22:47
choice between Dean Phillips as the Democratic nominee and someone like Nikki Haley as a republican nominee
01:22:53
I'd vote for Dean Phillips all day long you know one other thing I like about him is he is a business owner and
01:23:00
he presents as a Bill Clinton Democrat I mean I think it's not an accident he's got a picture of Bill Clinton on the
01:23:06
wall behind him you know he presents as a that was exactly my takeaway too I thought he present as a moderate
01:23:12
Democrat who's a little bit of a throwback to the Democratic party of of the 1990s if RFK Jr is trying to bring
01:23:19
back the Democratic party of say the 1960s the party of John F Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy his father I think that
01:23:26
Dean Phillips is more trying to bring back the Democratic party the 1990s yeah both of them I think are ultimately very
01:23:31
out of step with where the Democratic party is today but they're out of step with it in ways that I like so he is a
01:23:38
candidate who I could support against a republican who if we ended up getting a sort of stale neocon type Republican
01:23:45
candidate I would take a Dean Phillips all day long really wow great uh freeberg your
01:23:50
thoughts I mean I I think I think if Joe Biden runs he obviously doesn't stand a
01:23:57
chance just based on the structural issues that he described if Joe Biden doesn't run and drops out I think there
01:24:04
are probably a lot of other Democratic candidates who are going to have deeper pockets and more support from the party
01:24:09
and more celebrity or what have you to get themselves elected with respect to his
01:24:16
candidacy and whether it's a realistic kind of campaign I I would probably argue no but what I really like is the
01:24:23
fact that he is making the case I think in a stronger way than even RFK Jr was on how these incumbents and how the
01:24:32
incumbency in the party system prevents uh new candidates from actually participating in a true Democratic
01:24:38
process and it feels to me a lot like what goes on in that sense is the equivalent of like regulatory capture
01:24:45
but in politics it allows these Party leaders and influencers which is a very small group of people to decide who gets
01:24:54
to go on a ballot in a state to decide who gets to be the nominee who decides who gets to run for president the best
01:25:00
thing that he's doing is exposing A system that Bernie Sanders calls rigged and that clearly I think is very
01:25:06
inequitable and doesn't create a true kind of democratic process so it's really great to see him doing this work
01:25:12
and telling the story and I'm glad we gave him the Forum to do that for just that reason and if you were to have a
01:25:19
choice of him or Biden you'd pick him yeah if you had a choice of him or V on the
01:25:25
other side who' you pick no comment no comment okay taking off my moderator hat for a minute loved his business story I
01:25:31
agree with you chth really excited to see somebody under the age of 80 run for president and I thought there were
01:25:38
really two powerful moments there when he said he would send special forces in and then he was pretty aggressive in his
01:25:44
assessment of netanyahu's leadership and overall he did engage with every single
01:25:49
issue and had interesting policy issues no chath it seemed pretty uh pretty engaging there so overall great job
01:25:56
everybody I think four for four on the presidential candidates and just as a programming note we have sent the first
01:26:01
podcasting K kits the First microphones to four presidential candidates for those of you counting at home what do
01:26:08
you think will happen post this chamath V got a big bump RFK got a big bump what
01:26:13
do you think is gonna happen post this I think I think that Dean Phillips is going to pull really well the more that
01:26:17
people get to see him and I think New Hampshire is set up well for Grassroots politics like
01:26:23
this it will it will go over very well the question I think freeberg points is the is the key one
01:26:30
which is the party infrastructure has tremendous antibodies and if they decide to shut you out which
01:26:39
they did very strongly and focally for RFK you don't have much of a choice except to one is an
01:26:47
independent so his candidacy is precarious not because of the ability of him as a
01:26:53
candidate actually because I think it's quite high or his likability which is quite high or his electability as sack
01:26:58
said which against the right person is very high this has all to do with the antibodies of the
01:27:05
infrastructure just a quick programming note Jal are you drinking a chocolate milk I am drinking a Core Power
01:27:12
26 26 grams of protein I'm still on my trying need more protein but I did have a super gut bar earlier today for which
01:27:20
was quite nice thought that was a chocolate milk this one's got 26 gram it's a 42 G protein yeah I don't want to
01:27:25
give a free ad to Core Power but saxs in addition to the antibodies that you know
01:27:29
kicked RFK out of the democratic party the Press also blocked him CNN Etc wouldn't let him on the right would let
01:27:36
him on all day long does this same antibody kind of system exist on the right at all or is the right more open
01:27:43
to multiple candidates just generally speaking no I mean you look at Republican debates and they are vigorous
01:27:50
debates there is real disagreement on the right there there real debates on the right and there's a real working out
01:27:56
of contested issues the Democratic Party by and large is a machine it works in lockstep that's why what Dean Phillips
01:28:04
is doing is so sacriligious I mean he is pretty much ending his career as someone
01:28:11
who can just move up through the ranks of the the Democratic party maybe this will turn out in a way
01:28:17
where it gives him like a Leap Frog but I don't think so I mean I think he's basically signaling to the higher-ups in
01:28:23
the Democratic party that he's no longer a candidate for advancement through the
01:28:28
regular course got it you know one analogy is that the Democratic party is like the Empire and the Republicans are
01:28:35
like the Rebel Alliance you know the the Republican party is a bunch of Misfits um it's a bunch of
01:28:43
discontents ew walks solos and solos or whatever but the the Democratic party Mar marches is that why the democ party
01:28:52
wins more is because they're in lock step yeah they're much better fundraisers they're more
01:28:57
disciplined they have their act together right now I don't think this was always
01:29:01
the case but I think it's true right now yeah okay uh well we we had a couple of
01:29:05
other issues we wanted to get to so I think we can wrap there great job everybody that was spectacular great job
01:29:10
getting the candidate jamath thank you for that all right we have to touch on what happened this week with the US and
01:29:15
China relations everybody knows XI jingping was here in the Bay Area to meet with Biden yelling well welcome she
01:29:22
uh at the plane maybe she's selling some treasuries I don't know and that's what
01:29:26
the Press said yeah I mean like we're like some sort of uh pisor company that's selling us junk bonds I mean the
01:29:34
second that she gets off the plane she's Hawking our shitty bonds listen everybody's raising a fund right now you
01:29:40
know fundraising is hard did you guys hear the commentary that the treasury auction had a really tough tough moment
01:29:46
last week they had a big auction on what was it 10 and 30-year bonds the 30-year
01:29:50
Bond bid was not really there and so they're they got to get buyers in the market they got to go get the she's
01:29:56
coming to raise money curently too she she's here everybody's having a hard time raising right now pretty pretty
01:30:01
crazy uh but chth you and I tweeted about this clip where xiin ping said that you know he's basically for peace
01:30:08
and that we have to work together let me just start there with you shth so we can
01:30:12
get through this quickly do you take him at his word there were cynical people saying like hey you know he's just
01:30:18
desperate needs more trade needs more business how do you interpret she's peace pipe here you know and his dinner
01:30:26
with a bunch of Executives last night I think he's pragmatic he's somebody that wants to not just rule over China but he
01:30:35
wants to do it for the rest of his life and he wants to do a good job and I've said this many times China's
01:30:41
issues are endemic and pervasive and they're demographic and so he has huge structural issues that he has to fix in
01:30:50
the Chinese economy and so I think all of this is just about him focusing on his priorities which makes sense which
01:30:56
is really about domestic policy there's an enormous real estate issue that has to get sorted out there is a GDP issue
01:31:03
that has to get sorted out there's a youth unemployment issue that has to get sorted out and then there's an aging and
01:31:10
a birth rate and a replacement issue that has to get sorted out all of these things are in enormous efforts and
01:31:17
so I think he's pragmatic enough to not also then add foreign Misadventures to that plate and I think what you heard
01:31:26
was him being very clear about just exactly that sax what was your interpretation there's so many
01:31:33
jumping off points here you got foreign policy you got Tick Tock fenol I mean there's a long list of issues but does
01:31:40
it feel like we're turning a corner on relations hey they need us we need them what was your interpretation of all this
01:31:46
well I think what's going on here is that the Administration has its hands full with two Wars if we got still got
01:31:52
this war in Europe over Ukraine which is going very badly and now we have a new war in the Middle East that caught them
01:31:57
completely by surprise uh recall that literally a week or two before October 7th you had Jake Sullivan saying the
01:32:04
Middle East had never been more peaceful so they absolutely did not anticipate what was coming and now we have half of
01:32:10
our carrier groups in the Middle East positioned there in case this you know blows up into a wider Regional War so I
01:32:16
think the simple fact of the matter is is that the Biden Administration this is more than can handle or let's put this
01:32:22
way they're trying to put the China compete on hold they're trying to put it on ice while they figure out a way to
01:32:30
rescue this losing effort in Ukraine and to prevent the situation in the Middle East from spiraling out of control is
01:32:36
just too much for them they don't have the bandwidth to deal with a War or conflict breaking out in the Asia
01:32:43
Pacific so I think that's the the Biden administration's motivation here as they're seeking to ease tensions because
01:32:50
they're just to ban with constraint to deal with it by the same token I think jamath is right that uh she realizes
01:32:57
that he's got his hands full with domestic economic problems he doesn't need uh a ratcheting up of tensions with
01:33:04
the United States right now and I would also add that on foreign policy I think what you're seeing in his remarks is a
01:33:12
return to the foreign away from this kind of wolf Warrior diplomacy that they had going on a few years ago where they
01:33:19
were kind of saying these very Coast things and they're kind of flexing their muscles in the asia-pacific re region
01:33:26
that really backfired on them because it raised the hackles of all those other Asian countries and it was making it too
01:33:31
easy for the United States to form a containment alliance against China so he's moving away from that type of wolf
01:33:37
Warrior uh rhetoric that got them nowhere and he's moved back to the rhetoric of adun sha ping who said that
01:33:44
uh China's policy should be to B its time and hide its light under a bushel uh in other words just gets stronger and
01:33:52
stronger don't let people get wise to how strong you are and then when the time is right you will flex your muscles
01:33:59
but just keep you know keep getting stronger and I think he's returned to that that uh policy and you saw this
01:34:06
with the belt and Road conference that in Beijing just a few weeks ago where you saw countries like Vietnam
01:34:12
participating and I think that China their strategy is now to try to use some honey to catch some flies as opposed to
01:34:21
vinegar using this kind of bellicose rhetoric and saber rattling and if we look at this chart I think this chart
01:34:26
speaks volumes fredberg um in foreign investment into China has absolutely fallen off a cliff in De the decoupling
01:34:35
the saber rattling you know uh and other countries looking to have resiliency and
01:34:41
not be dependent on China has obviously blown up in his lap what what are your thoughts on foreign trade and and and
01:34:47
our business relationship with China and their relationship with the west and the
01:34:51
rest of the world this used to be a thing to do to make money and then it became a question mark of whether you
01:34:58
can make money a couple years ago and now as of this year I would argue you are a pariah
01:35:07
if you are trying to invest in China or do any business in China it's almost like you can't do business with the
01:35:12
Enemy that's the tone shift that I think accelerated in the last 24 months and as
01:35:19
that tone shift happened in the business community the investment Community um it
01:35:24
obviously escalated the tenor of what is the the broader relationship looked like
01:35:32
that I think catalyzed hey we got to simmer things down because we can't really afford or deal with that escal
01:35:38
escalation right now but I I don't know I mentioned this to you guys I was at a conference this past summer the summer
01:35:43
of 22 it was like hey maybe you know when are things going to get bad with China to this summer it's like if you
01:35:50
were doing business in China you're trying to pick up pennies in front of a a freight train like you're going to get
01:35:56
run over and it happened in one year that was my observation it was like this crazy right this yeah and I could tell
01:36:03
from the tone of what everyone was saying on stage it was like Universal there wasn't anyone that disagreed and
01:36:09
similarly as you guys know we've heard this from both political parties in the US it suddenly became the new new thing
01:36:15
for Democrats and Republicans to denounce China denounce investing in China denounce doing business with China
01:36:21
but too much too fast I would argue has led to an observation of the consequences it's a deeply coupled
01:36:29
economic partner to the United States China is the largest buyer of us agricultural exports $2 200 billion
01:36:37
dollar a year of farm products that we make get shipped out to China China is a major supplier to our electronics
01:36:43
Industry I we don't need to recount all the relationships but trying to decouple
01:36:47
too quickly trying to call China the enemy too fast I think has led to a realization that that's not really ATT
01:36:54
tenable so I would argue that maybe this week has been a moment I don't know if it really changes the long-term
01:36:59
trajectory but it seems like it's certainly a very important and and critical pause in the escalation one
01:37:06
thing I wanted to comment I think one of the biggest winners this week I'd love your point of view on this gu is like
01:37:10
Gavin Nome I mean he was all over this week like he was at the plane greeting G he cleaned up San Francisco I mean he
01:37:18
was shout out from the Pres shout out he was yeah at the dinner I mean do you guys think like Gavin is you know going
01:37:25
to be there when Joe says I'll see you later I'm not going to run again and the when I spoke yeah what's happening here
01:37:32
it's all just a big coincidence he actually went on stage in San Francisco made all those comments
01:37:39
about the city should be cleaned up and we haven't been doing it we could have the whole time he was very honest about
01:37:43
it that's not quite what he said yeah but I look I mean I I don't know what are you guys quasi owning it right ZX
01:37:48
quasi owning I don't think he did own it he gave these really weird remarks about
01:37:53
how there are some people are saying that we're only cleaning up San Francisco because there's these fancy
01:37:57
people here that was such a weird term as well it's true because it's true and it's true but yeah it was like he was
01:38:04
headed in One Direction and then realized he was making mistake but couldn't quite yeah let's pull it up
01:38:09
let's pull it up it's good yeah here play it they're just cleaning up this place cuz all those fancy leaders are
01:38:14
coming into town um that's true because it's true what he's basically doing there is
01:38:23
admitting that he as the governor has the power to snap his fingers and wave his magic wand and clean up the Streets
01:38:29
of San Francisco and that is completely different than what he's been telling us
01:38:33
for years for years he's been maintaining that the problem of homelessness in California is owned by
01:38:38
local officials or by judges or by somehow by the system itself and it's too complex and is beyond his power to
01:38:45
Simply do something about it but he just admitted that in fact he does have the power to do something about about it in
01:38:51
fact he is the boss of a one-party State and all he had to do was snap his fingers and make this homeless problem
01:38:58
go away and he's willing to do that for xiangping he's willing to do that for dreamforce he's willing to do that for
01:39:05
the Super Bowl but he is not willing to do that for the ordinary citizens of San
01:39:10
Francisco and I think that ultimately is going to be a huge vulnerability what he
01:39:13
should have said here is it's true that we cleaned up the city to uh represent ourselves well for these foreign leaders
01:39:23
who are coming in but the truth of it is that we should be doing this every day and here's my agenda for fixing it01
01:39:29
two3 and if we could get everyone on board with this agenda we could fix this problem but that's not what he said what
01:39:35
he basically communicated was that I can solve this problem any time but I don't
01:39:40
give a about you ordinary citizens we only do this for the fancy people chth when uh any any reaction to that
01:39:48
yeah he's auditioning I mean I think that much is clear again I would just say it's you can't
01:39:53
just go to China and meet with xiin ping so that has to be endorsed it's negotiated it's
01:40:00
enabled you go there with talking points you go there in discussion with State and Treasury and and the rest of the
01:40:07
federal bureaucracy behind you so that was a clear audition of some kind and I think it was
01:40:16
obvious that they wanted the Apex Summit to be the backrop of a Biden G meeting and so you're doubling down on
01:40:26
California so I think it's I think it's kind of like a a dry run here is what I would say I mean I'm
01:40:33
not sure that it's I don't know what for it definitely made him look presidential
01:40:37
and I think you're right that when he went to China a few weeks ago to invite x to the summit that was clearly
01:40:42
sanctioned by it got to be by blinkin by suiv by the estment of course of course
01:40:49
but again the the reason why they sanctioned that is because they really want to ease tensions with China right
01:40:54
now given how full their hands are with the Middle East right now with you no no
01:40:59
I'm not I'm not debating that I think that that makes all the sense in the world I think that you could have sent
01:41:04
any number of well not any number but one of three cabinet secretaries and it would have been just as appropriate and
01:41:10
I think sending the governor I think was a little bit of a it was a test can he perform and I think he did a good job
01:41:16
there he helped himself I mean he he hurt himself with the it's true because it's true but helped himself in terms of
01:41:22
the Optics of can I say it though I I I think he did look presidential in China and I actually that was the first time
01:41:30
where I thought Gavin was really being a normal person because he actually told the truth he's like yeah this state is
01:41:36
a at at its best no but this state at its best is a center of innovation in the future and at its worst it's where
01:41:44
every bad Progressive idea goes to die but wait he said that no no no I'm saying that I'm saying Francisco
01:41:51
embodies both of those two things on one day it's full of people on crystal meth
01:41:56
and fenel on the second day it's the open AI Dev day yeah whole the president of within a
01:42:02
block of each other so I think and I think he just adag if he said something like that that would make him so much
01:42:09
more real well maybe he's trying to find his voice I I think his tone has shifted a
01:42:14
bit I don't know that's I'm saying it felt like in seeing some of the talks he gave this week and his positioning and
01:42:18
where he was sitting it was he looks like very leg I definitely I definitely will say that the Gavin Nome of three
01:42:26
years ago was a little bit SMY and more of like a political Insider the Gavin Newsome of like the last week
01:42:36
and particularly even just that comment to me David was actually being honest and I think that that's a more viable
01:42:43
path if they decide to give him the candidacy which a really good observation because he could just come
01:42:51
out and say listen we tried a bunch of things we had good intent it didn't work and now we're reversing them but you
01:42:57
know Biden did say that he would possibly be running for his job I want to thank Governor Nome want to thank him
01:43:06
he's been one hell of a governor man matter of fact he could be anything he wants he could have the job I'm looking
01:43:12
for that that was I don't know if you guys heard that quote from Biden Biden said that last nightow so I guess
01:43:19
conspiracy let's put our chin foil tinfoil hack Corner time sack's your favorite percentage chance Biden runs or
01:43:27
drops out whichever way you want to do it anybody have uh some te here I still think there's about a 70% chance that
01:43:34
Biden runs okay so 30% he's not gonna voluntarily retire he the the party apparatus whoever's you know behind the
01:43:44
scenes pulling the strings The Wizard of Oz is going to have to go the party Elders going have to go to him at a
01:43:50
certain point point and say sorry this is just not going to work and we're not there yet okay chamat what do you think
01:43:55
I'm curious I think David's right the leaders and the powers that be will not make that call right now I don't think
01:44:00
it's I don't think it's time yet freeberg you got a take uh I don't know I I think it's
01:44:05
speculation I really don't know okay hey chamath one uh question here just on markets hundreds of billions of dollars
01:44:12
not being invested in China on that chart forign Investments where does that money go any thoughts on where that's
01:44:18
going it's just sitting in account you think it's being invested in other geographies we talked about it last week
01:44:24
with Jared Kushner but if you look at just the the ton of cash and cash equivalents I think it just speaks to
01:44:31
how everybody's just a little bit on the sidelines waiting to go waiting for the
01:44:35
green light which you know you saw CPI this week by the way I mean we talked about it last week which is that it
01:44:40
looked like CPI is turning over and now the consensus forecast is you're going to see CPI with a low 2% Handle by
01:44:48
February or March of this year so you're going to see 2.2% % CPI or something watch out watch out as in hey markets
01:44:55
could come roaring back maybe not Zer environment but could get interesting all right listen we don't want to leave
01:45:01
without doing a science Corner everybody loves science corner I know deepmind has
01:45:07
been working on you know many projects freedberg and Deep Mind Of course is Google's AI arm they did go they did
01:45:15
protein folding and of course they're doing Bard but they announced something this week about pred ing
01:45:21
weather tell us about this paper that was released freeberg yeah so I think this was pretty exciting you guys know I
01:45:27
used to work in weather when I ran climate Corp we did a lot of work with weather forecasting and and weather
01:45:33
modeling so deep mind published a paper in the journal science uh this week introducing graph cast which is actually
01:45:40
a publicly available model uh that does weather forecasting using machine learned models it's a 37 million
01:45:47
parameter model just to give you a sense how small that is is that model compared
01:45:52
to uh chat GPT which is like a 1.5 trillion parameters in the chat GPT model this is only 37 million parameters
01:46:00
in this model um and the performance that they got out of graph cast which they published in the journal so they've
01:46:06
made the model available you can check it out you can read the paper on how they built the model they're very open
01:46:11
about that and the model actually forecasts weather over a 10day period better than traditional weather
01:46:18
forecasting so let me just talk about how weather for casting is normally done and what they did differently and why
01:46:23
this is such a big breakthrough so weather forecasting is usually done by kind of chopping up the atmosphere into
01:46:29
little cubes little blocks and you know the weather is a fluid it's like a liquid you know it's it's air and
01:46:35
moisture being moved around with energy and so normal weather forecasting systems are what are called numerical
01:46:42
models uh you run physics you run the formulas for physics on each of those little cells of the atmosphere and
01:46:48
figure out how they affect the cell next to them and the cell next to them and you run that cycle forward and you run
01:46:54
all these calculations and then you figure out how those cells are going to be different in hours and then in days
01:47:00
going forward and these numerical models basically because they're compute intensive they're running actual
01:47:06
calculations from physics uh to model all this stuff they require a lot of compute power uh there are hundreds of
01:47:14
variables that are measured and that are output from forecasting models and they're generally run on these very
01:47:19
expense compute clusters uh there are two major weather forecasting systems one is run by ecmwf
01:47:28
which is the European weather center and the other one is run by Noah called GFS
01:47:32
here in the US and the ecmwf runs on a million cores across 7,700 compute cluster nodes they spent about $200
01:47:40
million on this this uh this compute cluster and the GFS model runs on a 29 peda flop system so 29 quadrillion
01:47:49
floating oper ation per second it cost $270 million and when they run the the forecast model using this traditional
01:47:56
way of doing things they're running all these physics calculations on these little small blocks of the atmosphere
01:48:01
and perturbing it fast forward try and capture as much data out of the model runs as they can and every six hours
01:48:08
they run the model and there's a new output every six hours and it costs a billion dollars for Noah to run
01:48:14
forecasts every year and disseminate that information and then all the weather companies you know from Weather
01:48:19
Channel and ACU weather they buying or getting free access to these forecasts that come from these big compute
01:48:25
clusters and that's how all weather forecasting is done they're actually done primarily by these big centralized
01:48:30
government super compute clusters and then they're made available for everyone to consume and the more data and the
01:48:37
more compute you get the better the forecasts the higher the resolution meaning the more local space you can
01:48:43
forecast on the smaller the time scales meaning you can go from one day forecast
01:48:47
to one hour forecast break it down and the further out you can be accurate whether it's 5 days and then 10 days and
01:48:52
so on so more compute has been the name of the game for many many years in WEA forecasting the more compute you get the
01:48:58
better the forecasts so this breakthrough that deepmind has had is they basically took all the past weather
01:49:04
forecast and they built a model that figured out how to take the current weather and the weather from six hours
01:49:10
ago just the data so the data feeds from today's current weather weather 6 hours
01:49:15
ago and trained a model that predicted weather for the next 10 days the same output as you would get from these big
01:49:21
expensive numerical models and they did this using what's called a graph neural network that's the architecture for the
01:49:28
model a graph neural network is far more complicated than say predicting an image
01:49:34
which is two-dimensional it's pixels next to each other or predicting a text stream which is one-dimensional so
01:49:40
what's the next word in a sentence so uh these are a graph neural network it's a
01:49:44
fairly complicated model and so they describe all the techniques they used and everything they built in the paper
01:49:50
they were really open about it all and then they were able to train this model using past you know forecasting data
01:49:55
going back to the 70s and then they ran the model if you pull up these charts so
01:50:00
the first chart that we're going to pull up here basically shows the model's performance graph cast against the big
01:50:06
ECM ecmwf model and what you'll see is that the model across all time scales going out to 10 days is better and
01:50:14
there's a bunch of ways to measure this primarily what's called root mean square
01:50:18
error which measures the scale of the forecast so here you can see the black line is the numerical model run by ecmwf
01:50:27
which is the big weather forcast model that most people in the world rely on every day and the bottom is the the the
01:50:32
machine learn model and by the way the entire graph cast model runs in one minute so you basically input current
01:50:41
weather data and you input weather data from six hours ago and in a minute you get all the forecasts whereas currently
01:50:48
it could run on what like a a smartphone or a laptop it's small not that small but yeah I mean you could run it on a
01:50:54
small compute and um you could get the results in a minute and so basically everyone can now be a weather forecaster
01:51:01
what used to be is this is the gap between the black and the blue line significant is that an important it is
01:51:07
significant in two ways one is first of all it's better which is amazing because
01:51:11
researchers have spent billions of dollars in decades trying to make their numerical models better so the fact that
01:51:17
a machine learned model is is just simply better is really profound and the second point is that
01:51:23
this machine learn model is only 37 million parameters and can be output in a minute so you could be running this
01:51:28
thing continuously and you could does this does this work for weather all around the world or specific exactly all
01:51:35
around the world and the second thing that they measured if you pull up the second graph was well okay great you can
01:51:40
measure you can do basic weather forecasting but are you good at picking up extreme events the things that are
01:51:46
really outside of the normal distribution curve the things that we should worry about like Cyclones or
01:51:51
extreme heat or atmospheric rivers and the answer again is absolutely yes that this model trained on this data is
01:51:59
better at forecasting extreme weather events on that bottom left one is it saying that HRS doesn't actually predict
01:52:07
Cyclone tracking and that graph cast gives you like two three four days lead time that's just an error difference
01:52:13
yeah it's just a measure it's a measure of Delta so what's the downstream effect
01:52:17
of this people will be able to get out of an area that could have extreme weather or Insurance you you did
01:52:22
climate.com right so you you've been in this business for a long time yeah so I think one of the most interesting things
01:52:28
is how this is going to change how weather forecasting is done again billions of dollars there's a a big
01:52:32
system in Japan a big system in Europe and a big system in the US that forecast the weather they're some of the biggest
01:52:37
compute clusters in the world and now you can run it in your home you can run this model in your home because all the
01:52:44
weather data that is the input to the model is available all the time on the internet for free so we can just just
01:52:49
take that data and anyone could run it you could get faster results more frequent updates certainly a much lower
01:52:55
cost and I think this is just the beginning of obviously a long road of optimization and iteration that will go
01:53:01
from here where it'll be really amazing to see what else can be done with this model it totally upends a lot of
01:53:06
different business models as well what's really important also to note this is an
01:53:11
incredible proof point of these graph neural Nets graph neural Nets can be applied in other areas like chemistry
01:53:18
biology Material Science where you're simulating physics or or physical properties or threedimensional space
01:53:24
over time showing that you can train off data and be better than physical models
01:53:29
that just use physics to make a prediction and you can just have the machine figure out how to do it on its
01:53:34
own and it comes up with this prediction that's better than running physics in the in a compute cluster is really
01:53:39
incredible and I think it'll also it's a great way to highlight the opportunity for machine learning models being
01:53:44
applied to things like chemistry and biology for Discovery purposes uh and other areas over time I thought it was a
01:53:50
a great paper another really incredible uh proof Point by Deep Mind I mean are they going to just throw away those
01:53:57
clusters running those other weather models now they're dude I'm telling you like that's and and by the way talk
01:54:02
about accountability so what if I'm running the Department of Commerce which oversees Noah in the US I'm like what
01:54:08
are we doing spending a billion dollars a year on this now we can just run this thing on a Macbook so a perfect example
01:54:12
of how AI is going to save billions of dollars this is like an incredible proof point for the government getting more
01:54:17
efficient to Circle back around to Dean Point earlier in the episode okay this has been an amazing
01:54:23
episode for the dictator himself jth I want a more accurate forecast of the temperature on Uranus oh it was coming
01:54:31
in at any moment oh man it depends did you have it's cold and dark cold and dark cold and dark or maybe you had the
01:54:38
hot sauce anybody knows all right listen n for the Sultan of science the day after tomorrow beautiful uh it was great
01:54:43
fun movie David freedberg and the Rainman David Sachs uh I'm amongst amongst the world's greatest moderators
01:54:52
great job the last two weeks freedberg and this is your favorite podcast be Allin podcast we'll see you all next
01:54:59
time bye bye bye bye oh also also also Happy Thanksgiving everybody happy thanks weeks Happy Thanksgiving no
01:55:07
episode next week one happens you never know somebody goes Rogue you Happy Thanksgiving to everybody
01:55:14
gobble gobble to be be thankful for your Bes gobble we let your winners ride Rainman
01:55:26
David and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it queen
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have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual tension that they just need to
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