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Now, a look at the state of Pennsylvania. It's one of the most important states in this presidential
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race. >> Both Pennsylvania senators, Democrat John Federman and Republican Dave
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McCormack, voted in favor of the bill. >> In this situation, we both agree that
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shutting our government down is wrong for our commonwealth and for our nation. >> So, we're looking for ways to find
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common ground. And when we disagree, we we disagree. But when we can agree, we agree. Our votes are about country over
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party at this point. >> Well, we're trying to set a good example because we have lots of disagreements,
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but we trust each other. We like one another, and we look for ways to work together.
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>> I thought the best way to kick this off was to actually give both of you a few
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moments to just say what's on your mind. And so, I think in the rules of parliamentary decorum, Senator Federum,
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as a senior sitting senator from Pennsylvania, maybe you can start. I'm I'm proud that to call Senator McCormack
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a a a good friend. Uh and now things are very more polarized and now I refuse to
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uh engage in the kinds of extremism. And you know, we're going to fight together
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for Pennsylvania and for our nation right now. And we're going to continue to have conversations like this, you
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know, whether in Pennsylvania or here across. So um so we uh we have to find a better way forward through a lot of the
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circumstances. >> Yeah, Dave. >> Yeah, I think um I mean one of the the
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the benefits of being in a place like Pennsylvania is that uh the the voters expect us really to find ways to work
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together. And if you put this moment in perspective, I think it's probably the most
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consequential moment in all of our lifetimes. And in fact, I think it might be the most consequential moment in
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humankind, which is which is a big statement. So much change is happening. It's artificial intelligence, of course,
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but it's it's really how that's affecting everything, life, sciences,
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defense, energy. It's it's a moment of enormous change. And that that change
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creates a lot of anxiety that lends itself to polarization and extremes. And so if there was ever a time where it's
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more important to find ways to work together, it it's now. And so we've found ways to work together on
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everything from uh energy policy to fentanyl, the fentanyl crisis to anti-semitism
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uh in Pennsylvania and across the country to drone technology. And and these are issues that are of such
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consequence that uh you can't get there by just being with your team. You have
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to be able to find common ground. And uh we we've really looked for ways to do
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that. >> Yeah. I I I think he could confirm uh Pennsylvania keeps you honest now. And
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now I'd like to remind everybody that we are the only two people in our respective cycles that flipped seats.
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You know, that's really, you know, both parties want that. they we want to flip
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seats. It's like, well, you know, we we've done that because I think we've
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rejected the extreme kinds of views and now it's better to work together for for
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Pennsylvania or for our country for right now and AI is really really important and and that will sometimes
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will put me at odds where the direction that the Democratic party seems to be moving in that now. So now uh moratorum
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for data centers I for me that's a China first kinds of policy for that. I'm
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going to continue to push back that. I'm not going to describe that as a scourge.
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I'm going to describe that as an incredible new opportunity. And now you know my friend he he organized an
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incredible symposium in western Pennsylvania that brought AI together and energy. And that's two parts of
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things Pennsylvania really brings to the table in this very very important conversation.
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>> I think that we're at this point now where is it fair to say as goes
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Pennsylvania as goes the rest of the country in the sense that if if you can find common ground in the state on these
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very thorny issues, maybe the rest of the country can find ground. And the vice versa is also true. If you guys
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can't find resolution, what are the odds that California and West Virginia making
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it up find resolution? So what is it like a day in the life in the US Senate trying to find these compromises because
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from our perspective outside in a lot of the time it just seems like nothing is happening.
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>> Dave. >> Yeah. I think um if you step back you would we we I know we look very similar
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but uh we we have uh we have many similar background. >> Yeah. We have what's the difference? We
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have similar backgrounds uh in the sense we both grew up in rural Pennsylvania and uh had similar you know similar
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childhoods and uh John went into public service. I uh I left went to West Point went to the military but we both came
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back from those those rural backgrounds. But what's interesting in Pennsylvania
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is 19 electoral votes and the it's a microcosm of the country. You have these
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two big urban centers Philadelphia and Pittsburgh which are mostly Democrats. you have these these rural areas that
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are mostly uh red, mostly Republican, and you got to build a coalition across those to win. So, ironically, a lot of
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the same people that voted for uh Senator Federman voted for me and um and and voted for President Trump and and
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that's the coalition you have to build. And the in particular, it is a working
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uh families coalition. So the thing that's uh ironic is that even though all
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the uh all the national unions would have vote would have endorsed Kla Harris and uh Bob Casey my opponent the rank
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and file twothirds of the rank and file the electricians the pipe fitters the steam fitters voted for me same with him
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they voted for him so it we actually even though we have a lot of differences in our parties we have come together
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around that coalition and that coalition includes includes a very significant Latino turnout, uh, a very significant
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African-American turnout, the highest African-American turnout in 2024 in the last 30 years. And so, uh, that
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coalition, I think, is up for grabs. Who wins that coalition in Pennsylvania and
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who wins it in the country, I think, will dictate the future to a large degree in 2028 and beyond. And so that's
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what we're working on together because we're trying to build that coalition to
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do good things together in Pennsylvania. >> The uh Senate is at an all-time low in
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terms of approval rating. We have the lowest approval rating of a president in history after Biden who is extremely low
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rated. You guys can't control the debt. The American populace believed we'd be
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in a golden age right now. They're not seeing it. Inflation is soaring. The president seems to be running a muck.
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has no check in the house and you guys are responsible. >> Tell us tell us what you really think
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other than other than that, Mrs. Lincoln. >> Well, and $40 trillion dollars in debt
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and you're spending more than ever. So, the American people, I think, are extremely frustrated with both parties.
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It's great to see you guys come together. Um but what are you going to do to bring back some balance between
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the branches of the government because this does not seem to be going in um the right direction for anybody but the
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people in this room which is to say the top 10% of our society. >> Well I mean for me if you you referenced
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inflation is soaring. Well just just recently that's p primarily driven by energy prices right now. Now why are
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those energy prices high? Well, because the president decided to hold Iran accountable. And now
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I'm the only Democrat that actually agrees with that. That was not that was not a radical idea for a Democrats.
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Every single person running for president as a Democrat said we must never allow Iran to acquire a nuclear
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bomb. And now we have the opportunity to hold them accountable. Why? That's why I
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continue to vote and against these war powers act now too. So for inflation, yes, now absolutely no one thinks $5 a
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gallon is is great. But if you allow Iran to become nuclear, you know, that's
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going to seem quaint, you know, if $5 a gallon holding it up to so what's driving this economic conversation o
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overall right now. So for me I think what's most important now uh turn everything as a partisan thing and
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that's the danger where if we despise Trump more than we are concerned about
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Iran becoming a nuclear power that will have profound implications for not just in that region but al for a global stage
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for right now that's the difficulty moving forward Now, I've said this in
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the podcast of, you know, for allin I, you know, who's the leader's party? I'm
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like, that's TDS 100%. You know, our party is defined by the opposition of whatever he comes out for. I've said he
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Trump comes out for ice cream and lazy Sundays, we're we we're going to hate
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that [ __ ] you know, and we're going to vote it down. Now, we all have we all
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have a bandwidth and we all have a platform, you know. I feel like you have to discriminate. I don't care about the
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ballroom. If you want to build it, sure, great. I was there for the the White House correspondent dinner and I saw how
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dangerous that was for for our leadership. But I don't care about the reflecting pool. But now we can't stop
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talking about all this other kind of so we can really focus on thing that's more
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important when now it's become all just distract distracted by the small small
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ball game. >> Dave, is there a path to resolution? I mean, like, you're you guys are going to
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be forced to confront the filibuster, which is this critical bull work that sort of leaves
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some sort of attempt at finding common ground out there, but there's a lot of
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pressure to end it. I think Senator Fenerman, you said you'd be supportive of ending the filibuster. Is that where
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we're going to just total tribalism? >> Yeah, let's talk about the filibuster.
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Let's talk about that. The entire Democratic party, including myself, we were so wrong about the
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filibuster. In my cycle in 2020, every single Democrat identified we have to we have to eliminate the filibuster. Seems
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like it made sense now. And thank God, thank God we had people that stood uh there, whether it's Senator Mansion or
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Senator Cinema, you know, history has vindicated their wisdom to do that thing. And now Democrats, we all wanted
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to get rid of it in 22 and 2025. We love it. And now it now it reforces people to
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work together with both sides. Now if you turn the Senate into a smaller version of the House and majority
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majority now, that would have profound profound implications for now. So now someone
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that be the first person to announce, hey, I was so wrong about that. Uh that's one of the kinds of hill I would
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die on now to defend the filibuster. How important it is to the Senate, but also
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Senate for the minority rights, whoever that happens to be in in that time. You know, that's what's so critical what the
00:11:36
filibuster is to governance here. >> I would say um first of all, uh Congress, but lots of institutions right
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now have very low public approval, very low trust. That that's a huge problem.
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It's across it's across all areas to church uh uh public officials, business
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uh in many cases. So we've got to rebuild trust in our institutions and one of the ways you do that is through
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your own personal conduct. So one of the things we can do is try to set the example. Uh if you look at my voting and
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his voting, I I have I'm an unapologetic conservative. I vote as a conservative.
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At the same time, that doesn't mean you can't work together. So, we look for
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every opportunity for bipartisan legislation. So, I've got more bipartisan legislation than anybody.
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We've collaborated on dozens of things together because you can do both. And
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the filibuster, I mean, it is frustrating as a business person. I was in business for 25 years. So frustrating
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the way the pace of of how slowly things move. But I do think it creates the requirement, the impetus to get things
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done. And I would disagree with you. I think a lot of big things have been done. I look if you look at the energy
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agenda, we can't win the AI race without energy and uh we made huge progress on
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energy. I'm hoping we're going to get permitting reform, which would be the
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biggest economic lever we could possibly get done over the next 6 months or the next two and a half years. Um we've
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closed the border. We've stopped the flow of fentanyl. We had 4,000 people who died in Pennsylvania in the last
00:13:06
year of the Biden administration at 1,600. This year it's down 60%. Those same statistics nationally. And then
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there's huge intractable problems like the debt and the deficit which are existential that we're not dealing with.
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And that's not a product so much of the filibuster, not the filibuster. That's a
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product of the polarization of our country and both sides taking advantage of anybody willing to to to look at a
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problem in a in a hard way. My my question was though about the bottom half of the company country in the
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K-shaped economy we're in and how it's not working and you guys are phenomenally unpopular with that group
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of Americans. So is there a way to make >> wealth concentration? >> Yeah, wealth concentration. The bottom
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half is not happy with no sides. >> No, it's a huge No, it's a huge problem
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and I don't I don't think I listened carefully last night. I mean, I I just
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want to tell you, uh, that is a huge huge problem that's growing. The median
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income in Pennsylvania is $52,000 a year. When you guys say AI or AI anxiety, I I mean, these these folks,
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they've been down this road once before when a bunch of smart rich people said,
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"We got the answer. It's called globalization." And what happened in my
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hometown is there was a mill of 2,000 people that got gutted. It's now 100 people. So, there's enormous anxiety,
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but it's because there's no path to getting ahead. and everybody in this
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room. Um, the last 10 years has been the greatest 10 years in the history of humanity for those who have assets.
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>> So, do you have a plan? >> Yeah. Well, there's there's got to be
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there's got to be a number of plans. Well, do you have a plan? Because it's
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not just going to be me. It's going to be us because right now I'm listen, I'm
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a I am a beneficiary of of capitalism. I have been wildly fortunate because of capitalism. But we are we are going to
00:14:54
lose capitalism unless we find a combination of a ways to address this. So what are the ways? The invest America
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counts is a perfect way, right? Where you are building opportunity for the next generation. The um the school
00:15:06
choice uh provision in the working families tax cut act. $1,700. Everybody in this room can give $1,700 every year.
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billions of dollars that are going to go into uh school choice for for making sure everybody has equality of
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opportunity. If you don't do that at maximum scale and this moment leaves the
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majority of Americans behind, we're not going to be able to get anything done.
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>> Spend more money on programs. >> Yeah. Spend more money, but not not
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spend more spend more money in giving people opportunity. So, the reason those two accounts are great, it takes it out
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of the government, circumvents the government, it's based on incentives and choice by people that have wealth, um,
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it's, uh, it's sort of Andrew Carnegie uh, brought to present day. Take that
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wealth, put it in the hands of those who will benefit from it, but it's your
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choice. It's not decked dictated by the government. I think that's going to have
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to be part of the answer. Does anyone in Congress subscribe to the notion that I think is rooted in,
00:16:09
you know, empiricism that the more we spend, the harder it is for people to have economic mobility, you know, and I
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think that there's a a simplified notion that government has to play a role in
00:16:20
driving people's progress. And the truth is the more government intervenes in
00:16:24
markets, the more inefficient and the more expensive those markets get. And therefore the more inaccessible wealth
00:16:30
and value creation is for any individual and the freer the market the less the government intervenes the less the
00:16:36
government is spending the less the government is buying the better things get for people generally speaking does
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is and it seems to me every time I visit DC I leave profoundly unhappy because I
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meet with people in Congress and this is a notion that seems to be diametrically
00:16:52
opposed to their viewpoints that everything is about doing more for people government needs to do more on
00:16:58
both sides of the aisle versus if the government did less things would get more affordable, things would get more
00:17:04
accessible and people would have greater economic mobility. >> Well, I mean, you know, talk about the
00:17:11
the the government now. We had not just one, we had two shutdowns. Both were historic in terms of their length. Now,
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we couldn't just agree on very basic things. And now we've shut the government down collectively for over uh
00:17:28
120 days or whatever. Now then that's one of the thing as a Democrat I refuse
00:17:32
to engage in that thing. If that's a core responsibility as a senator keep our government open and for the love of
00:17:38
God find a way to agree enough to keep things open and put things in risk and make our country less less safe. You
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know, I'm proud to be a capitalist and now capitalism is the the one system that has proven to raise life standard
00:17:55
of humans across the globe. You know, and now people in my party now now we're
00:18:01
having bad ideas refuse to die and now we're talking about socialism and and
00:18:06
communists right now. We have we have candidates now that I'm I am a communist. These things and it's like
00:18:13
that seems interesting. You know what's your point now? Talk to anyone that's
00:18:17
had to live under those kinds of regime. Now they're all absolute capitalists
00:18:21
right now and that's that's absolutely the fact that the market wool has fixed
00:18:26
a lot of these kinds of problems you know and I'm not terrified by AI. Am I concerned about it 100%. right right now
00:18:34
and with now mythos and other concerns about mass hacking and weaponizing it that way you know that's coming and now
00:18:43
I think that should belong to America you know that you know we America should build that chassis and now that's why if
00:18:50
we turn my party into we're AI is the scourge or the cancer now I refuse to reject that because it's going to
00:18:58
transform the world now it can come from us or it can come from China whose side
00:19:03
are you going to be in? And a lot of the people that oppose that now, a lot of that opposition is funded by a lot of
00:19:09
these groups that are aligned with CCP. So that's part of the danger right now.
00:19:15
So that's the dangerous time right now and like Democrats now my party. Oh, the
00:19:23
problems are billionaires. Oh, but we love the billionaires that fund, you know, our kinds of views and our views
00:19:28
and that too. I know target people, you know, people, you know, call out Bezos or whatever. It's like you don't don't
00:19:35
do that. Don't call out private citizens, identify them the problem. You know, they are create jobs. If you've
00:19:43
never created a job, don't criticize people that that have really changed our
00:19:47
our economy for the better. Honestly, >> why is Graham Platiner doing so well in
00:19:53
the polls? This is a candidate that has a literal Nazi tattoo on his chest. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:59
>> And what does what does history tells us comes next? If he wins, >> if a candidate like that can win, what
00:20:05
does that tell us? >> Yeah. Well, when I when I was a kid, if someone had a Nazi tattoo, you probably
00:20:10
could call them a Nazi sympathizer, you know, and someone now uh and now just yesterday we discovered that he was
00:20:18
sexing with up to a dozen women. And now Democrats now some saying, "Well, what's
00:20:23
the big problem?" you know, that's, you know, they're constantly just ignoring a
00:20:27
lot of these things. Um, and now this is a guy that just a couple years, a couple
00:20:33
years ago, uh, described, uh, an American soldier in a firefight with the Taliban. Uh, dumb motherucker that
00:20:41
doesn't deserve to live. That's his words. Who does that? Who lurks on there? And, you know, he's really a
00:20:47
tough guy behind a keyboard. And I can't, you know, explain other than that it's a backlash to to how partisan
00:20:55
things are. Someone like that should have been uh in this race right now. So here we are, you know, a guy that was
00:21:05
texting to up to a dozen women, you know, he's getting his swall on and now we're now we're kind of just, oh, what's
00:21:13
the big deal? uh why not confront that and just and call that out and that's
00:21:19
that's the danger if now um these kinds of views uh could you imagine could you imagine if either one
00:21:28
of us described an American soldier as a dumb mother that deserves to lie or he described the our army as as absolute
00:21:37
trash absolute trash he described American army as absolute trash um and and that's a viable candidate now and
00:21:45
that's that's a bizarre place to live right now as a Democrat. You know,
00:21:49
>> if he wins, what happens to this? What what does that tell us about where we're
00:21:52
headed? >> Well, look at what I mean, what's happening there is I mean, there's
00:21:56
there's problems on both parties, but certainly what you've seen on the left
00:22:00
is two things. I think it's indisputable. One is a a migration to these terrible ideas of socialism and
00:22:06
Marxism and so forth. But in addition to that, this really rise of anti-semitism
00:22:11
and hatred and that and the the tell here of how pervasive it is is the people who are now campaigning in Maine,
00:22:19
Chuck Schumer, uh, Elizabeth, these are mainstream Democrats that have now lurched so far
00:22:26
to the left. And I think um I think this is going to be if if those candidates win and that becomes validation of the
00:22:35
viability of that stream of thinking in the Democratic party, I think it's in
00:22:40
horribly unhealthy for America. Uh ironically, the best thing we want if we're Republicans is a strong Democratic
00:22:48
party that keeps us honest and keeps us in check with good ideas. And uh and that's not happening. And uh as I said,
00:22:55
we have problems on both sides. But I think that lurch to the left is really frightening a frightening thing.
00:23:01
>> Well, and then let's and you just, you know, brought up Israel. You know,
00:23:04
that's a profound betrayal for my party on on Israel or not. So, you know, the
00:23:09
people that are winning a lot of these elections, you know, you know, one of their signature view is anti-
00:23:14
anti-Israel and borderline just, you know, raw anti-semitism in from a lot of these candidates now, too. And that's
00:23:24
that's exactly where where we are. Um and now that has isolated me and the party and just calling that what that
00:23:31
is. I mean that that's that's dangerous and now uh that that's where one of the
00:23:38
things that we happen to agree on. Uh that's the right side of history uh for
00:23:42
me. And that's a >> I mean maybe one of the best things that can happen is Shapiro continues to do
00:23:46
well in Pennsylvania irrespective of which party you align with a prominent Jew winning in Pennsylvania running that
00:23:53
state well is a very good sign actually for the rest of the country that there's
00:23:58
common ground and that anti-semitism is much more in check than the perception >> hero we had also
00:24:04
>> I think Josh is fantastic >> yeah and he you know has a lot of disagreements about us maybe uh going
00:24:11
into this for and you know maybe being egged into doing it. Uh and and by the way Federman um if you're look or
00:24:21
Freeberg if you're looking for the source of why people feel comfortable saying these terrible things you can
00:24:26
look no further than Trump and what he said about McCain being a war hero that started this actually this rhetoric and
00:24:32
now everybody wants to one up it. He said he's not a war hero and he got captured. That's where this started.
00:24:39
Sax. Oh, please. >> You're trying to blame Trump for the fact that a Democratic candidate in
00:24:45
Maine has a swastika tattoo. >> The rhetoric. No, the rhetoric. It started Start with Trump. We're in TDS
00:24:51
and he needs to >> We're in TDS land, but fortunately, we're not interviewing you, JCAL. Let me
00:24:56
ask uh Senator Federman a question. So, I appreciate your common sense views on AI, on capitalism, on all the things
00:25:06
we're talking about, and I think that uh the people in Pennsylvania appreciate
00:25:12
it. I think you're very popular there. But I'm curious, do you ever get worried
00:25:17
that you might get primared in the Democratic party when when you come up? Because I mean, the Bernie Sanders wing
00:25:23
is powerful. They have a lot of activists. They're very noisy. I mean, do you ever I mean, I appreciate your
00:25:29
maverick streak and your independence, but do you how do you think about that risk?
00:25:35
>> Well, a seat or a job is is not I'm always going to be I'm going to be
00:25:42
honest and I'm always going to have uh you know, my votes or my opinions are
00:25:47
going to be what I happen to believe is is true. You know, uh it's not a seat
00:25:51
worth trying to maintain if I'm going to lie or to pretend that things aren't
00:25:54
absolutely true. Yeah, absolutely. I can be be primar and there are some Democrats that are they're angry at me.
00:26:00
If they're angry at me for supporting Israel, hey, they have at it. If they're
00:26:04
angry at me that I think it's wrong to shut down the government, that's fine.
00:26:08
Uh if if they're angry at me because I I refuse to call him a Nazi or a fascist
00:26:13
or a piece of I'll never do that. You can hold me in that, too. But what's
00:26:18
really strange in that the truth is somebody that votes like a 93% as Democratic line and if I change my party
00:26:26
there was a lot of palace intrigue that I'm going to change the party and I'm
00:26:30
I'm never going to do that and if I did I could change you know I could announce
00:26:34
right now I am changing it right now my votes aren't going to change my views
00:26:38
excuse thing uh I wouldn't vote any differently things I happen to believe and and if if Democrats run me out of
00:26:47
the party. They will be attacking a committed Democrat that votes your line 93% of the time because we're in an
00:26:57
unique time right now that I think things are more important than trying to I I know what pays the bills as a
00:27:04
Democrat now. Literally what campaigns are based on Trump literally in their campaign commercials. Yes. and in their
00:27:14
emails and outrage. You know, it's constant rage bait. I I refuse to engage in that. And I'm going to be the an
00:27:23
example of what I think is entirely appropriate and and a lot of the conversations are driven by people that
00:27:30
represent very, you know, safe blue state states. Now, oh, like that's why Pennsylvania keeps people honest here.
00:27:39
And people are going to remember in 28. Oh yeah. Oh, I want to be bipartisan. I want to get along. You know, like people
00:27:48
don't believe you, you know, like they remember what what they've said and how
00:27:51
people behave. Uh so that's where I'm at. So yeah, I could be primar. But
00:27:57
what's more important to be uh be truthful what I think are important values and remind people that the things
00:28:06
we used to believe in you know I I think >> I want to I want to I want to just move
00:28:13
to just domestic policy and economics for a second Dave you you me you said this incredible story in the green room
00:28:21
which maybe you can start off with which is the quantum of people that reach out
00:28:26
to you every week to mostly complain about various companies, but just use that as an insight maybe to talk about
00:28:34
AI because that's a huge part of your state. It's also a huge part of the
00:28:38
American economy. And maybe compare it to what happened with shale and oil because there's a lot of commonalities.
00:28:44
I think it's quite interesting. >> Yeah, it's uh I don't know if he gets
00:28:47
the same amount, but on an average week, we have 14 million people in Pennsylvania almost. On an average week,
00:28:53
I'll get something like a hundred,000 outreaches to me, uh, letters, emails,
00:28:58
phone calls across different issues. And you can almost see when the activists are mobilizing groups to come come and
00:29:07
and make the case on certain things. And I do a call every two weeks. It's an
00:29:11
sort of an open mic where you get about 10,000 people to show up. and the the number of data center calls, data
00:29:19
centers have become uh a much bigger and per pervasive thing. And just to put this in perspective, David David was
00:29:25
there. Uh Dena and I hosted an energy and innovation summit in Pennsylvania last July. We had $92 billion of
00:29:33
investment committed. We had the energy CEOs, the AI CEOs, big investors, global
00:29:38
investors. We had uh Senator Federman came, Governor Shapiro came, the president came, the cabinet came. was
00:29:44
amazing and that's by by the way that's what you need. Winning is a team sport
00:29:49
and winning in AI is a team sport and you need all those players at the table. Um and so it was it was a real success
00:29:55
and since then there's been enormous investments made in Pennsylvania. I visited uh one just the other week,
00:30:01
Homer City. 4.4 gawatt of power from a coal plant that's being transitional to
00:30:07
natural gas. 3.4 gigs is going to go into a data center complex. a a gigawatts going back on the grid to
00:30:14
hopefully bring down energy prices. So, this is this is happening across Pennsylvania, but the opposition is
00:30:20
growing and it's clear. >> Is there any organic part to this? Like is cuz it's very hard to understand
00:30:26
what's happening when you have these kind of dark forces, dark pools of money.
00:30:30
>> I can't is there a legitimate like I don't want to have this in my backyard
00:30:33
for XY. There's enormous misinformation >> and I think that misinformation is
00:30:39
largely being driven by China and outside forces and then there's just legitimate
00:30:45
>> not not understanding not knowing and we need to do a much better job of making
00:30:50
sure that the outlines of what these data centers mean to communities is clear and and and frankly there needs to
00:30:56
be a much clearer covenant of what it means. If you're going to have a data center in your community, you're a
00:31:00
township supervisor, here's what you know. Um, you're going to they're going
00:31:04
to bring more energy they're going to use. They're going to protect their
00:31:07
water with closed loop. Um, they're going to give this much to the tax base.
00:31:11
They're going to build schools or infrastructure, whatever going to build. >> Isn't that first part the only thing
00:31:15
that matters in people's minds? I just don't want my energy to build go up.
00:31:19
>> No. Um, because as soon as you get through that, they move to the next thing which is water. And then the the
00:31:24
schools are going to be crowded and there's like So >> the schools are going to be crowded
00:31:28
because there'll be new jobs. No, because we new people and they don't they're not making the connection to the
00:31:33
tax base. The roads are going to be crowded. So there's a whole comprehensive case that needs to be made
00:31:38
and u what uh Jamath was making the point we went through this before John and I went both lived through this with
00:31:44
fracking huge campaign against huge misinformation lack of understanding and 15 years later I'd say there's pretty
00:31:53
broad-based support >> for no yeah there's unlimited money I mean you know they they someone finds
00:31:59
some B-roll kind of a comment and they put $10 million behind it and they they can turn you into the most extreme
00:32:07
kinds of things. It's ironically, you know, originally people try to convince
00:32:12
people that I'm a socialist and now people are like now I'm MAGA or whatever. I'm like, no, I'm just I
00:32:17
haven't changed. My views are my views are are are the the same. And you know,
00:32:22
I would tell people energy is national security. Look at what's happening in,
00:32:28
you know, in in Europe and other parts. Now if you don't have energy security
00:32:32
then your your national security is in danger. Now AI is coming and and what what he's done he created this amazing
00:32:41
symposium to remind people that the you know we need both. We need energy and Pennsylvania produces a lot of that and
00:32:50
now also AI is coming otherwise we'd still be using this spinny Jenny or whatever that's called you know. So it
00:32:57
why do we talk about data centers? Because people forces are describing them as a scourge or a cancer that's
00:33:05
going to bankrupt you or destroy your community. Uh why do we have that right now? Because this is something that's
00:33:12
going to transform our society. Um there you know absolutely there could be a downside but overall it's going to be
00:33:18
much more productive and that's going to create new opportunities. Now I refuse
00:33:24
to become a party of of lites. Uh you know that's you know like honest if I had to vote now claim that that's all
00:33:32
cancer it's danger and it's all downside then I'd be lying and that's why I'm
00:33:36
saying Republican or Democrat you know that's a fact. These things are very very important and that's why I'm going
00:33:43
to >> Can I just Can I just double click on this thing when you compare it to Shale?
00:33:46
So in shale, I'm going to assume that when shale was escalating in importance,
00:33:54
the push back were from corporate interests that would have economically lost out. That's what I'm guessing. The
00:34:01
majority >> environmentalist. >> Environmentalist. >> Yeah, environmental.
00:34:04
>> But it seems like in AI we're dealing with foreign state actors. >> Yeah.
00:34:07
>> Is that fair? Is that is that is it as reductively simple as that? Well, if you
00:34:12
go to those two parts, one was the the campaign of misinformation and the other is a lack of understanding, there's much
00:34:18
more of a campaign of misinformation from outside forces this time around. Uh but but what happened in in the you know
00:34:26
in in the case of shale methane destroys the water table, you know, don't want
00:34:31
these in our backyards. What happened of course was these enormous royalties for
00:34:34
the farmers. Um we're we're the fourth largest natural gas reserves in the
00:34:39
world. But if we were a country, Pennsylvania would be number four. This is the economic engine for our state.
00:34:45
Our state is the second largest energy producer in the country. So this unlocks everything for Pennsylvania. And as
00:34:52
those jobs started to be created, so you saw the economic benefit, the misinformation about the methane and the
00:34:59
water table became clear slowly and much too long, 15 years later, we're now at a
00:35:05
place where I bet 80% of the people would have support fracking. last night event you know you described that we
00:35:11
have six to eight months uh ahead of China right is that right yeah okay so now you know you know you know my party
00:35:20
is driving for a moratorium for data centers like I mean do you think China doesn't love that you know again that's
00:35:28
why they're there they're parts behind some of driving this this view you want
00:35:33
to give that race to China it's coming it's the choice do you want America to
00:35:39
to to build that chassis or do you want the Chinese to do that? You know, like yeah, you know, data centers can make
00:35:46
some things with some uh >> and at the core of that, John, is what you said earlier, which is it starts
00:35:52
with TDS and then it goes with give China AI. Is that >> I would say this, vote me out. If you
00:35:59
think it's okay to give China a benefit to win the AI race, vote me out, you
00:36:05
know, and you know, but it's it's like so >> your favorite person in the audience. My
00:36:10
wife is clapping for you. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's exactly your favorite. I mean, that's exactly
00:36:16
the way I see it as well. So, um, we have great bipartisan agreement here. So Dave, I was at your summit last year,
00:36:24
the energy and innovation summit, where you announced $90 billion of new investments. The thing I was struck by
00:36:30
was how broad-based the representation was at that summit. You only had software companies, you had hardware
00:36:36
companies, you had manufacturing, you had robotics, you had energy, nuclear fracking, and then most interestingly is
00:36:44
that you had the trades there. And that's when a light bulb went on for me that oh this is a bluecollar boom
00:36:51
because con this is a construction boom and blueco collar workers are really going to benefit and the trades who
00:36:57
represented there spoke to that and since then we've had hundreds of of thousands of new jobs construction jobs
00:37:04
created and 25 to 30% wage increases for construction workers and so I'm curious
00:37:10
does that help make the cause more popular in Pennsylvania? Are those trades are the unions still on board
00:37:18
with this or have the politics of that changed at all over the past year? >> Um, it's a great question and it's it's
00:37:24
been extraordinary. So, just in the last 15 16 months and this these are related
00:37:29
by the way. It's not just energy projects and data centers. It's US Steel
00:37:34
and a new next generation mill. It's Eli Liy building a new plant. It's Hanwa and
00:37:39
the Philadelphia shipyard. But they're coming in part because of the data centers and the energy projects and um
00:37:45
and so I've spent a lot of time with the trades lately. The most secure job in
00:37:48
Pennsylvania right now is a secure welder. I mean is a seasoned welder >> an electrician.
00:37:53
>> An electrician. These these honestly these these folks are coming out. They're getting the training. They're in
00:37:57
their late teens, early 20s. They're making more than 100 grand a year in these sites and they can't they can't
00:38:05
build they can't hire quick enough. uh they can't find enough people to meet
00:38:10
the demand and uh you know these the the data centers I mean I've looked closely
00:38:14
at that there's one you know coming in Burwick Pennsylvania right next to where
00:38:18
my uh where I went to high school you know the the way to think about it is there sort of four buckets of economic
00:38:25
activity that comes jobs that come there's of course the deals that come with them but there's the thousands of
00:38:30
jobs to build the data centers and the energy that goes side by side so these are 5 10000 uh folks on the site
00:38:38
Then there's the hundreds of people to run the data centers. Then of course every 3 to four years the the hardware
00:38:45
and everything in the data centers gets upgraded which brings in hundreds sometimes thousands of jobs. There's the
00:38:50
energy that's going side by side. Then there's the restaurants, the hotels. I
00:38:54
met with the the trucking association the other day. They they uh guess that it's about two logistics jobs for every
00:39:01
one job in a data center. These things are economic engines. So once you get that covenant straight, people are
00:39:09
willing to make the decision. And if they're if a township supervisor, a county commissioner, no senator is going
00:39:14
to tell them to do this. This has to come from the ground up in terms of making the decision. But once they
00:39:20
decide to do that, it's a huge uh engine for their communities. If they decide
00:39:24
not to do it, my point is, okay, where's where's your plan? What is the plan? In
00:39:30
Pennsylvania, we've been losing people for 20 years. We can't get our kids to
00:39:33
stay. This is like a rebirth. It's amazing what's happening, but we got to
00:39:38
break through the misinformation. >> Freeberg, do you have a final question?
00:39:41
If not, >> well, I mean, I think on this point, why do you think it's so difficult for
00:39:47
the Democrats to embrace the facts on the ground? because you have an empirical story to share about job
00:39:54
creation, value creation and there's no empiricism on the other side that there's job displacement or job loss in
00:40:00
the white collar jobs which is generally part of >> two things I would say the notion of AI
00:40:05
broadly is getting munched with the notion of data centers in a narrow thing data
00:40:11
centers of course are an enormous component of this but those two those two things are unrelated second I I I
00:40:17
don't think it's just democrats like I mean we have >> no the America first movement is now in
00:40:22
the horseshoe exactly aligned with the >> we have we have the the the far left and
00:40:27
the far right >> converging on an anti >> we even have some besties who
00:40:32
occasionally buy into the jobs apocalypse. So, >> no, no, I'm I'm I'm I I'm job. No, never
00:40:38
misrepresent me, Sax. I will call you out every time. I'm I just believe there'll be jobs.
00:40:42
>> You could also use the word job mobility. >> Well, I think I'll let finish my
00:40:45
sentence, please. >> I'm speaking job displacement is occurring and that new jobs need to be
00:40:51
created to fill that in. And I think that's the blind spot of the people who
00:40:55
have Trump dedication syndrome is that they will never actually do anything that would modestly criticize the
00:41:01
president. And that's part of the challenge. I want to have a last just >> just about the amount of money being
00:41:07
donated by special interests. Do we need to get money out of politics? Because that seems to be the root of a lot of
00:41:14
these problems is that you know billionaires can give 50 million 50 million 100 million 200 million whether
00:41:21
it's Soros or friends of ours. It feels like there's way too much money in
00:41:25
politics. Does that have to change for this type of issue uh you know around data centers etc. and special interest
00:41:34
and and how do we can we ever get there? >> Yeah. Well, I I would I would say of the
00:41:39
five things I would do to fix America right now, that wouldn't be in the top
00:41:42
five. But yes, conceptually, I'd like to get money out of politics. There was my
00:41:46
race was $500 million. >> We raised 200 million on my side, 300 million on the on the the opposition
00:41:53
side. We we couldn't keep up. >> I was I was record before in 22. we raised, you know, and and know my race
00:42:01
was 300 330 million and and now that's quaint. Wait till 26, wait till 28. This
00:42:10
is going to look like quaint and that's the thing, you know, collect >> we need to get money out or this group
00:42:15
needs to be donating a lot more to both >> or get get rid get rid of the primary p
00:42:20
process too, you know, and and now open to other people. And now these primaries, they identify the extreme
00:42:29
kinds of views and put out someone, you know, and and that's part of it now,
00:42:34
too. Collectively, $300 million were spent to to describe to destroy our reputations. Think what $300 million
00:42:43
could do for Pennsylvania or for people that was spent to destroy reputations. You know, you're terrible. I am
00:42:51
terrible. Uh that's the absurdity of the American politics, right? >> On on that note, I actually want to say
00:42:58
both of you are incredibly rational and reasonable and incredible American. So I
00:43:02
just want to thank you Senators Federman and McCormack. Very much appreciate