00:00:00
that is just a crumple phone that is just the crumple phone and then they could start an app where folding phone
00:00:05
enthusiasts could meet each other it's called hinge heyo I like
00:00:14
[Music] that what is up people of the internet
00:00:20
welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your host I'm David and I'm Andrew and Marquez is out
00:00:27
today because he's doing some more frisbee things because he has to be a professional yeah unfortunately
00:00:33
hopefully he's doing pretty good they are not like the they usually go into this tournament as like the favorite they are not so he's got I was just
00:00:39
going to say wait is there any more backstory to this because I don't know like you obviously are more versed in
00:00:44
the lore of ultimate could you really quickly give us a rundown as to what is happening what's special about this one
00:00:50
this is Club National so this is just the tournament within the US and it's not the professional leag they play in a
00:00:56
club yeah in a in the cler we all fam um
00:01:02
oh God I feel like such a boomer saying that out loud um yeah like this is kind
00:01:08
of like what ultimate in the US has been for a while because there wasn't a pro league or anything you play on these
00:01:14
like localized teams and then you play through like sectionals regionals Nationals so you play locally and Branch
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out till it's the top in the country this is that one I know he's already played worlds this year which is different and he's played Pro ultimate
00:01:26
is the most confusing thing ever ultimate players are the people keeping the the support pack because they can't make up their mind doing anything so
00:01:33
yeah hopefully he does well this year well they may not be the favorite but they are my favorite today's episode is
00:01:40
episode 256 which means if every episode of waveform was a unique value it could be stored in a single bite wait
00:01:49
wait that was fire that's right thank you anyway we got a lot we got a lot of
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interesting stuff to talk about today um we got the Qualcomm snap drag Summit that has just happened out in Hawaii so
00:02:01
we're going to be talking about the new chip set out there uh the airpods hearing test actually went live a few
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days ago so we got a chance to try that out and also we have had the opportunity
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to try both the Snapchat spectacles which audio lers studio right now Andrew
00:02:18
is looking at right now uh and then Andrew and Ellis had the opportunity to try the meta Orion glasses we're going
00:02:24
to have a little section where we kind of talk about both what was better about each one and yeah we'll pit them against
00:02:29
each other yeah and then at the end Marquez will be here for a small period of time just not really here uh he did
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an interview with someone at meta and so we're going to play that at the very end but first huge news huge news take it
00:02:44
away Magic Mouse 2 oh my
00:02:51
God U there's rumors of a Magic Mouse 2 magic Trackpad 2 and new magic keyboard
00:02:56
and spoiler alert it seems like they're all exactly the same but with USBC instead don't do this to me
00:03:02
app this is the hardest thing wait there's nothing wrong with that oh is
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that Michael over there okay be what was that Beyond The Click
00:03:13
Beyond The Click the port the port on the bottom oh Cry Me a River oh my oh my
00:03:20
God Cry Me a River BR I have to stop using my computer for 5 minutes every 9
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weeks is the magic m charging on the bottom actually just a Pomodoro uh timer
00:03:33
dude just every 3 months you have to do it instead you don't complain when your Ferraris in the shop every four weeks
00:03:39
guys yeah relatable okay that's all we have for that okay um wellit you're not you're
00:03:45
not going to you're not going to push back on me calling the Magic Mouse the Ferrari of mice really you're just going to let that hang I mean they're both Nic
00:03:53
looking drivers they both are aerodynamic that's true we can move on wait but what's new
00:04:00
with the trackpad though yeah so is there anything I think all of them are just uspc yeah which we all kind of thought was gonna be a while ago or
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Marquez thought it was going to be a while ago all of us told him of course they're going to keep it lightning but
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really looks like we're finally USBC well I mean hey every time my magic
00:04:19
keyboard dies and yes I'm using a magic keyboard and no I will not apologize for it uh I have to ask Adam for a USBC to
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lightning connector and it is always a bad time so if they're going to do that I guess it's beneficial well and if it
00:04:33
needs to be said if it needs to be said I hope the new magic keyboard uses the
00:04:39
uh the new Macbook Pro keyboard platform and not the old
00:04:44
butterfly is the old one is it currently using the butterfly switches the butterfly switches cuz the I hated the
00:04:51
butterfly switches with every fiber of my being I I'm pointing to a magic keyboard right now but yeah it
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definitely does it definitely feels better than the 12in MacBook I feel like
00:05:03
scissor switch scissor switch I don't have a problem with the magic keyboard I I think it feels pretty
00:05:09
but it's like identical to the okay it's not really it's definitely not butterfly butterfly was like even less like
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scissors like this butterfly the microphone just Rose David
00:05:22
out ofwhere like three in scissor is like this butterfly is like this and uh
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I'm sorry to audio it's even confusing when you're looking at it to be hon honest but feel wise the butterfly was
00:05:35
terrible and scissor switch is fine I don't love low profile that much but I have no issues with the m the magic
00:05:41
keyboard yeah I remember like when we did that typing test a while ago I won using a keyboard that was like crazy
00:05:47
expensive everyone's like he only won because he used that and then I went on my magic keyboard and typed faster than what I did like if you're just it's
00:05:54
about being used to a keyboard yeah yeah okay well thanks for entertaining me but it's USBC that is good uh Snapdragon 8
00:06:02
Elite so Qualcomm has a history of every single year releasing a new chipset um
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usually it used to be the 8 like 845 855 865 they were kind of going along with
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that Cadence eventually they switched to 888 uh because it was a lucky number or something oh Triple Eight yeah it was
00:06:20
weird and then the next year they did Snapdragon 8 gen 1 they did three of
00:06:25
those and then now apparently the new uh the new chipset is called Snapdragon 8
00:06:31
Elite and that's sort of a play on their laptop chipsets MH which are Snapdragon
00:06:38
plus and Snapdragon Elite chipsets and so I think they're trying to communicate
00:06:43
one that they're sort of shrinking those chipsets down to a a phone size because
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they did pretty heavily modify the architecture quite a bit um it is also 3
00:06:55
nmet so it should be a lot more efficient and Qualcomm is quoting a lot
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of big numbers here uh they said the chip should be about 44% more efficient which is pretty massive 44% is a big
00:07:07
increase and the 8 gen 3 was already extremely efficient so that was that was nice 33% uh additional ISP throughput
00:07:16
which an ISP is the image signal processor which means it can take in more data which means theoretically you should be able to do things like you
00:07:22
know 4K 120 4K 240 at some point maybe stuff like that um it is significantly
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beating the pixel 9 Pro XL tensor chip by a factor of two in many by more than
00:07:35
a factor of two in many categories so seems good um ironically there is a big
00:07:42
dispute right now between Qualcomm and arm that has just escalated and arm is giving Qualcomm 60
00:07:50
days to like fix this dispute otherwise they're revoking the architecture access which could be like horrible but arm and
00:07:57
Qualcomm both benefit from their relation ship like immensely because that's where both of the companies make
00:08:03
a ton of their money do you think that's like a negotiating play to like release that to the public absolutely during the
00:08:09
event while they're all in Hawaii probably like that came out yesterday
00:08:14
right it came out five six hours ago is today while everyone's like chilling on
00:08:19
the beach right now with a my tai talking about chips yeah I guess the problem was that uh Qualcomm purchased
00:08:25
nuvia which had a separate licensing deal with arm and I guess when they purchased them they didn't renegotiate
00:08:30
the licensing deal so they said that it Arma is saying that it terminated the licensing deal but qualcomm's saying
00:08:36
that it's not a big deal anyway it's a little complicated I doubt anything will really happen I think they will probably
00:08:41
just settle it in court and people will get paid and we'll move on so either way I think that we're going to see a bunch
00:08:48
of different phones with the Snapdragon 8 Elite chipset this year um the xiaomi 15 series is apparently the first uh set
00:08:55
of phones to use the chip and the Asus rg9 series is coming out in November so
00:09:03
which is kind of confusing because the R8 came out we were looking this up because we were just talking about
00:09:08
smartphone Awards and trying to make sure we get all the phones in um before the end of the year which is tough which
00:09:14
is really tough with these two announcements right after we kind of like did our whole discussion behind the scenes here but the Rog Phone 8 came out
00:09:21
January 14th I believe so just before this year so are we going to have eight
00:09:27
and nine out in the same year I guess fun a lot of a lot of companies started doing that and it's yeah it's not we've
00:09:33
been put we've talked about this numerous times how like companies just keep pushing their dates closer and
00:09:38
closer like this Samsung first Galaxy series used to come out around like March and now it's all the way up until
00:09:45
the second week of January and you wonder is it ever going to Peak into his same year RG did that this year no I
00:09:51
mean um Qualcomm Tech Summit used to be in December and then it just kept getting moved earlier and earlier and earlier it was December and then
00:09:58
November and then October and now it's like kind of in the middle of October you know it might be a summer thing at
00:10:03
some point who knows I heard the reason was because all of these companies uh want exclusivity deals to be the first
00:10:10
one to launch with the new chipset okay and all the other companies are like well you can't delay us that much so
00:10:15
they basically keep moving the summit up so that they can have like xiaomi release their phone first I can see that
00:10:22
cuz a couple years ago do you remember their way of showing off the new chipset was they made that like Qualcomm phone
00:10:29
that was very clearly it was just an Rog phone but had Qualcomm branding reference phone yeah so like that no one
00:10:36
cared about that because it was a phone that wasn't really going to exist although it kind of was going to exist so partnering with an actual phone
00:10:42
that's coming out is way cooler to get yourself I mean in general the Snapdragon event is kind of boring
00:10:49
because it's harder for us to reference it directly to a product that we use all the time that's why it's easier to talk
00:10:54
about apple chips because they talk about them in the same thing as the phone releasing where Snapdragon has to
00:11:00
or like Qualcomm has to be like here's the thing we're making that could be in a bunch of different phones but it's not even all of the Android phones some of
00:11:07
the Android phones that maybe you want or looking at yeah they also say they also say things like twice as fast in
00:11:13
tasks like your browser which doesn't mean a lot didn't you say it was like
00:11:19
Chrome uh yeah I think they said it in Google Chrome and it's like I mean usually that's just a bottleneck of your
00:11:25
network speed and I don't think people really notice the difference between like how quickly a browser loads that's
00:11:31
why I think these events are kind of tough because they give you these big numbers but it's really hard to reference
00:11:37
directly where that's benefiting me in and like and and to be fair the graphs on Apple events we've made fun of for
00:11:43
years too because it's just like totally this is 2x more than some Windows laptop
00:11:48
or like no numbers on the Y AIS at all imag competing labtop using any of these
00:11:54
graphs in school your teacher would be like this isn't even a graph this is a drawing I don't know what to tell you yeah and every year the summit tends to
00:12:01
get longer and longer and that's because they just have more Partners come on and basically announce new products I think
00:12:06
like rivan was there this year really yeah yeah cuz they did announce a Google like Automotive thing um two years ago
00:12:14
or so Hiroshi was there to talk about Android it's yeah they just have a lot of Partners it's a very boring event um
00:12:21
but at least the new stuff is coming out it is yeah so um I have one more thing
00:12:26
to wrap up this section okay stop talking about the damn chip why are all the Nerds talking about the chip inside
00:12:33
the phone sorry I just had to I was like we were talking about this and then I went on your Twitter the other day and
00:12:39
saw this as the banner and I was like this has to be talking about the snap dragon it was actually about tensor it was about tensor I got yeah I made a
00:12:45
video about tensor on my YouTube channel and someone it was literally called on Google tensor ambient Computing and
00:12:52
whatever and the guy commented stop talking about the cham chip why are all the Nerds talking about the chip inside
00:12:58
the phone it was like bro the video is called tensor Snapdragon should open with this
00:13:04
comment why are all the Nerds anyway uh yeah we can move on another thing that
00:13:10
came out this week was the Apple airpods Pro 2 hearing
00:13:17
test if you can hear that you are officially a nerd nice nerds can't hear
00:13:23
that I didn't understand wait oh so you're not a nerd I guess sorry I was trying to he was trying to do tone yeah
00:13:29
may make a straight tone like a hearing test but clear didn't work yeah I did
00:13:35
the hearing test this morning uh for those that don't remember Apple basically was like All airpods Pro 2 are
00:13:40
now going to be able to be used as hearing aid devices they got FDA clearance so now basically if you are on
00:13:48
iOS 18.1 you have a pair of airpods Pro 2 you can take a hearing test which
00:13:54
effectively tells you whether or not you have hearing loss and then can recommend that you wear your airpods basically as
00:14:00
hearing aids yeah and I thought it also was just the hearing loss thing wasn't just for hearing aids but also because
00:14:06
there's the like if you're wearing it at a concert or in loud events it's just like you should test yourself to see
00:14:12
what your current hearing loss is and maybe you should start using these to protect yourself during those totally um
00:14:18
yeah you can turn on hearing protection for when you're at a concert and stuff like that which is a good idea because
00:14:24
these headphones are basically taking all of this noise and like lowering those high frequency so that they don't
00:14:29
damage your ears also I think 18.1 comes out next week at the time of recording got it got it but you tested it this I
00:14:36
tested this morning yeah how long did it take it took 7 minutes and 42 seconds okay and I know that because I did a
00:14:43
screen recording for Adam um you put it in the video version of the podcast you're welcome how easy was it what do
00:14:49
you have so basically it shows this screen and it has this little kind of glowing orb that you tap when you hear a
00:14:56
tone okay and so it does each ear does your left ear first and then your right ear and it goes like beep beep beep beep
00:15:04
beep beep beep beep yeah and then it kind of someone with heing lust doesn't
00:15:09
hear any of that go get your ears checked but I mean it it did there would be like 30 second
00:15:16
periods of time where I heard nothing and I was like oh God but I came out of it and it said I had little to no
00:15:21
hearing loss so that was good so I guess I can keep going to all the concerts weird flex but okay thanks you can stand
00:15:27
right next to the speaker in the front row yeah so yeah I mean I think that's a pretty it's a pretty big benefit for
00:15:34
people that own these things do you know if I could take that test on your phone
00:15:40
if I don't have an iPhone or airpods uh yeah you could yeah okay it's not like a set up to your health account or
00:15:46
anything like that it's just take it well the results show up in your health account but it's not like it's like
00:15:51
these aren't David's ears or like you know cool you know but yeah I could probably cancel out my results from it
00:15:59
if you just wanted to take it yeah and then it's only which airpods airpods Pro 2 okay because it needs the seal to make
00:16:06
sure it can like yeah why not the first airpods pro um I don't know chipset or
00:16:13
money maybe money possibly cool yeah likely money so yeah I mean that's I we
00:16:20
talked about how that was a lot of our favorite parts of the last Apple event was actually like the hearing aid and
00:16:26
hearing protection part of the airpods mostly cuz the rest of the event wasn't that great but yeah I mean I think most of the time the things that are actually
00:16:32
benefiting you in everyday life are the things that are very very helpful and so
00:16:37
hearing does benefit you in everyday life I went to this Pink Floyd tribute band concert and we were sitting way too
00:16:43
close to the front and it was painful it was painful so I think something like this would be actually very beneficial
00:16:50
that I would like to take it afterwards yeah and see I don't think my hearing's great if I'm being honest yeah I mean to
00:16:57
be clear you can you can probably use most wireless headphones that
00:17:03
havec to like make these concerts less damaging to your ears that's Ellis what
00:17:09
is that true are airpods specifically good at that so like this might be a
00:17:15
really stupid question what makes a good pair of hear hearing protection at a
00:17:20
concert because like I don't want to go and screw up the music that I'm hearing
00:17:26
but I want to protect my ears earplugs like I can't just go with a pair
00:17:32
of I think you go with a pair of pixels regular ear plugs that I want to wear to
00:17:37
sleep and not hear anything or can I you could okay I don't I mean headphones
00:17:44
speak very carefully here CU cuz we're on the edge of uh Health advice yeah
00:17:49
yeah yeah let's be okay um but to my understanding allegedly
00:17:55
allegedly there's a bunch of different kinds of earplugs you can use right right most of them like the two most
00:18:01
common kinds you're going to see foam and wax earplugs operate by creating a
00:18:07
seal like a really really tight seal that actually stops energy from being
00:18:12
mechanically transferred into your um ear canal uh thank you Adam uh their
00:18:19
your body does not just perceive sound with the small bone filaments inside
00:18:28
your ear canal and with your eardrum you actually have lots of different ways you can hear sound you have your uh co uh Co
00:18:35
clear Co clear but I can't remember if the ca is the one you you can you say
00:18:41
like the vibrations of your skull can be perceived as hearing the vibrations of
00:18:46
like your chest cavity can be perceived as hearing there's like lots of different ways so just plugging your
00:18:51
ears doesn't necessarily like stop you from hearing however foam and wax ear plugs stop sounds at a really uneven
00:19:00
frequency thing a frequency rate scale it's the morning so what happens a lot
00:19:05
of people when they use foam earplugs at a concert all the high frequencies go away first and the concert sounds really
00:19:11
boring and muffled and it's really hard to hear things like a singer and then also like big boomy bass sounds just
00:19:17
sort of come in uh unimpeded what makes airpods really cool is because it's an
00:19:22
active thing and they're monitoring themselves they can give you a really flat frequency response and if you check
00:19:30
your Apple watch like it'll tell you like without earplugs it's this or without airpods it's this volume with airpods you're perceiving it at this
00:19:37
volume um does it usually give it to you in like an OSHA safe volume in your
00:19:45
airpods that's what it always tells me how safe is that like I don't I don't
00:19:52
know it's the thing where it's it's like how much can you trust the podometer on your iPhone yeah you know like um I mean
00:20:01
there is a noticeable difference when you put it in and you're listening at a concert and your ears are not hurting
00:20:07
you know there's a noticeable difference and like there's a noticeable difference going from earplugs
00:20:13
to um airpods airpods uh there are situations where the because of like the
00:20:19
complex nature of sound in space like the airpods have gotten messed up like I've been at concerts where I'm sort of
00:20:25
like not in a direct path of the speaker and I'm get a lot of like speaker Reflections around the room and I can
00:20:31
hear like the timing of thec start to get a little iffy um I don't know if I ever answered
00:20:38
the direct question yeah he was just saying do are airpods special for any reason I've used pixel buds at a concert
00:20:45
and it was it was fine yeah I the only earbuds that I've used and been like
00:20:51
this is straight up like not working are the Bose quiet Comfort buds oh where I
00:20:57
found that those drivers did not have enough Excursion to like actually do a lot of low
00:21:03
frequency stuff and as the drivers were bottoming it out trying to cancel noise they were creating harmonics and all of
00:21:10
a sudden like the signals that were being created to cancel out what was already in the air you know were like
00:21:16
distorted and I could hear just those it it was it didn't work interesting um okay but I think just as far as like the
00:21:24
airpods as far as I'm aware like some of the highest Excursion drivers in an earbud as well as having ridiculously
00:21:32
fast compute like I can't really imagine things are much better that's exactly what I was yeah and I mean they have
00:21:38
official FDA clearance which is like but the FDA clearance isn't for it's for being a hearing isn't for that not for
00:21:46
sound protection yeah also the the Adaptive mode in is just so good really
00:21:53
I used to hate it and now I'm like I live in adaptive I'm willing to give it a swing again I just I don't like access
00:22:00
when you're in the city it's just like it's amazing okay any any thank you a
00:22:06
lot of people were like wondering whether or not airpods were going to be eligible for their like Health HSA
00:22:12
benefits like if you can use your insurance for it so far I don't believe anyone's doing that yet but in the past
00:22:19
the insurance has paid for things like a uh Fitbit and has actually lowered your
00:22:24
insurance if you commit to like hitting certain goals on Fitbit and that kind of stuff stuff so it's possible that
00:22:30
airpods could eventually be covered by yeah I if I remember correctly do you remember the um the pants with the like
00:22:38
uh leg joint that helps you like walk that I can't remember what they are called right now the
00:22:44
motorized skips not the AR skip I think it was arcar pants but skip skip Joy or
00:22:50
something like that was the name of the company I just remember them talking about how like how hard it is to get to
00:22:57
the point of like becoming a medical device where that would be accepted on insurance um I'm sure apple is way
00:23:04
better at doing that than like a startup company sure but I think getting to that point is pretty hard and I feel
00:23:11
like this is just an assumption here but hearing protection is like generally
00:23:17
something you need unless you're working in the space as like a a fun thing to do where if you can do a Fitbit they're
00:23:23
usually like if you can hit 10,000 steps for 20 days of the month that just an
00:23:28
overall health benefit thing that will they assume will make you pay less in Insurance because you're a healthier individual where generally going
00:23:36
somewhere to blow your ears out is an extracurricular activity so I don't know unless you're working in that space
00:23:42
again the hearing aid part of it not necessarily the hearing protection and as a hearing aid that is
00:23:50
like FDA cleared yeah I would not doubt if Apple's at least fighting to try and get some sort of coverage um I'm
00:23:57
wondering if people outside of the US are like what what are you guys talking about it's because we have insane Insurance things to cover our health in
00:24:04
the US and it's basically impossible to figure out yeah the hearing aid uh industry is definitely going to have to
00:24:10
step their game up though because they're generally extremely expensive and uh cannot be used for things like
00:24:18
good music listening so I've I know nothing about hearing aids I've heard a lot of people talk about hearing LS on
00:24:24
uh on socials the last few weeks and it's been like these were extremely expensive they're kind of hard to the
00:24:30
tech is really outdated so yeah we'll see if that happens now we can talk
00:24:36
about the trifold there's a trifold the Samsung trifold a Samsung trifold rumor
00:24:41
um Z ZD net in Korea reported that it's in the works screen that folds twice
00:24:47
just like the XT planning to release it next year alongside a flip type product
00:24:53
um and it says the report notes that Samsung's display Wing has already completed development parts for the
00:24:59
trifold model and everything is ready to hit the market H I would bet that they've had this ready for a long period
00:25:05
of time if you if you look at the last few Galaxy folds they're pretty much all
00:25:12
identical yeah like very close to identical it's funny too because this would be the this makes sense to be
00:25:19
called the zold a lot of people brought that up in our XT thing but when you actually do the trifold it can make a z
00:25:24
right which is very funny um even though this Samsung is called Z fold that doesn't make the z um I wonder there
00:25:32
were some other people reaching out to us talking about vxt and how in China it seems like a lot
00:25:38
of them are breaking um which makes sense with the outside fold I mean when that's getting hit against although
00:25:45
their little case has that like the thing that snaps on to protect that corner right um but it seems like there
00:25:51
are a lot that are breaking so that will be interesting I want to say Samsung you
00:25:57
know if they do release it they would have a way to protect that but they also released the first fold that everyone
00:26:02
broke and then had to fix that so yes yeah if it is true that they have been building this for a very long period of
00:26:08
time though maybe they actually went through all those steps to check for that but you know I want to believe that
00:26:13
yeah I want to believe but when you send something out into the wild it's always going to have different uh user use than
00:26:20
testing it in the lab for sure so and we like to break things wow yeah you know what I'm most excited about what's that
00:26:26
I really hope that flip type product is a tri flip what if it flips twice yeah
00:26:32
exactly long 30 by 9 that's what I'm talking about give me those long D can
00:26:38
finally VI his pictures on his phone they should do it the the double flip
00:26:43
and then an LG wing hit the top so it goes like honestly that is the kind of stuff
00:26:50
they show off at CES is it the GameCube starting animation that like does makes the G yeah yeah
00:26:58
that's the next that's the peak folding phone we're getting to just keep unfolding that is just the crumple phone
00:27:04
that is just the crumple phone and then they could start an app where folding phone enthusiasts could meet each other
00:27:11
it's called hinge heyyo I like that nice job that concludes our uh Samsung fold
00:27:18
coverage cool I think we should take a trivia break okay the one for trifold enthusiasts could be called hinge
00:27:26
two okay two hinged Too Furious too hinged Too Furious all right first
00:27:33
question un unhinge dear listeners I hope you enjoy
00:27:38
this last episode of the way for podcast cuz Marquez is going to fire us all we' officially fit in a bite of data we can
00:27:44
pack it up first question so we give the Magic Mouse a lot of crap here except Ellis
00:27:51
and Michael who love them uh but there was doesn't like it there there was a
00:27:58
previous version of an apple Mouse yeah the one with the little gray ball in the middle the one that's cir a circle yeah
00:28:05
what is it called I have no idea I think I had to use that in in
00:28:12
middle school though I had it in high school awful the wait I loved the little ball for my final cut timeline but the
00:28:19
problem was it was scroll wait are you talking about the circle one no no no no there was the it was like
00:28:26
clear and then had like a a white part on on the bottom and then it was totally clear it had no right click it had side
00:28:33
clicks and had this little tiny the track ball was the size of like a bead for a necklace right I remember that and
00:28:39
it was actually really satisfying okay I do know that Mouse but I was thinking of the the circular one G the iMac G4 one
00:28:48
that yeah it was awful it was insane yeah so what is the name of that Mouse I
00:28:53
have a guess but I'm pretty sure it's wrong and it's an it's going to sound really dumb if it's wrong so let's take
00:29:00
a break all [Music]
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00:30:13
now we have the Snapchat spectacles new version I don't know if they're called something else just the spectacles
00:30:19
that's actually a great question cuz when I was trying to tell Tim what to put on the thumbnail this week I was like the Snapchat spectacles but not the
00:30:27
old ones but how do I search I think you had to search snapchat spectacles 4 and
00:30:32
this comes up oh my gosh uh well we have them in the office and Andrew and Ellis both had the opportunity to try the meta
00:30:38
Orion glasses and these first let's we all got to try of course we all got to
00:30:44
try the spectacles let's talk about cuz we've talked about them on the Pod but only from the event right now we all got
00:30:49
to try them let's talk about our experience with this first and then what I want to do is both of these are Dev
00:30:55
units these are not going to Consumers and both of them clearly have a lot of
00:31:00
things that need to be done before they come to Consumers but I kind of wanted to just do like a here are the main
00:31:06
pillars we would look at in a review and let's give a point to each one after this on like who's doing it better yeah
00:31:12
I think that's a great idea but let's talk about Ellis is wearing them for a they're not that weird
00:31:19
looking they no not they're absolutely not AB they could be weirder well let's
00:31:25
start with that how do they look they look like product of glasses I think they look cool I took a picture of
00:31:30
Brandon that is going to be in the b-roll over me talking right now that they just look like normal glasses I
00:31:35
thought that was the meta Orion that that picture was yeah that's not that
00:31:41
these are very different these are a little more out there in I feel like
00:31:48
just looking at you now if I couldn't see the wave guides the wave gues like kind of blur your eyes or make them look
00:31:54
weird cuz there's a bunch of different like squares inside the wave guards in this room where there's lots of
00:31:59
different lights and a lot of the lights are very like unsoftened and angular the artifacts be going nuts like prising
00:32:06
which is something meta told us about which is a reason cuz these are using glass I believe as the lenses glass wave
00:32:12
guides and metat told is the reason they didn't like those is because because of
00:32:17
Lights coming in can create that rainbowy prism effect sometimes there's a bunch of reason they
00:32:24
use silicon carbide that's one of them for sure yes I would say though because of the glass I think without the lights
00:32:30
having the problem it feels like a clearer view through them than the meta ones I thought the meta ones felt kind of tinted they you know it's hard for me
00:32:36
to say just on memory but I do think you're right ever so slightly and one thing these can do they have the like uh
00:32:44
electrochromatic uh you can tint this which is awesome is
00:32:49
very cool um but but back to how they look the amount of uh Temple Wing that
00:32:55
comes back behind your ear is like four or five inches this may look effortless
00:33:01
wearing these glasses with headphones I promise it's not they uh they barely both fit on my skull they're super I
00:33:08
think they are 230 gam we weighed and The Meta Orion glasses I'm sorry meta
00:33:14
are 98 98 American I I don't what does that mean they're double yeah but Meta
00:33:20
Meta has the puck separately so it does correct yeah these these are all in the glasses themselves but it does connect
00:33:26
to your phone it's kind of like where's the compute that kind of thing but yeah these are like 200 something gram so
00:33:32
they're quite a bit heavier yeah can I borrow them for a second so I can show the audience how they fit on my
00:33:37
head that was really hard all right so the where your ears are supposed to sit
00:33:43
there's not a lot of Bend here or Flex yeah so when I put them on it crushes my ears your ear
00:33:51
shape does not work with these it not at all I look like a uh like when you put
00:33:57
your on glasses on like a four-year-old and they like like it's not comfortable at all it looks uncomfortable I think my
00:34:04
ear is the top of my ear is touching the middle of my ear on you look like a boxer that's exactly what I said can I
00:34:11
can I see okay let me see how they fit mine I think form factor wise these are a lot
00:34:19
David just pulled his ears to tuck the glasses in behind them you look like a like Pixar character dude they really do
00:34:26
stick out really far back back behind your head they definitely make my ears
00:34:32
um kind of flare out flare for sure they're not bending like mine but they're like flared out and obviously
00:34:39
there's a lot going on yeah there's a lot going on behind them you kind of pull them off really yeah all right so
00:34:45
does Rich weirdly enough Rich Co I mean they're not like I would never be like
00:34:51
wow who design those Prada but here's the question would you ever look at someone wearing those and be like H
00:34:57
that's a pair of normal glasses in New York City yeah you know but I said that about the the metag glasses 6 months ago
00:35:03
and then I got fooled the meow Ray bands yeah oh I think they literally are
00:35:09
glasses no those they are a little thick when I first saw them I was like what the hell is this Sentry turret face
00:35:15
hugger on this on this and then I I saw I saw someone on meta campus and realized they were wearing them for
00:35:22
minutes into the conversation I think when you just like look at the glasses you're like oh those are big and weird but then when someone's wearing them
00:35:27
you're just you're not expecting it it is able to these are big are big these
00:35:33
look like I mean we' we've all said it but like 3D glasses yeah yeah like the new movie theater 3D glasses not the old
00:35:40
red and blue ones which look way cooler did you say the old red and blue ones yeah dude when was the last yeah they
00:35:47
you describe the polarized ones as new yeah am I missing something here no I meanies now yeah they are way newer I
00:35:54
know but didn't we switch away from the red and blue in like 2 I think the last movie I saw saw with the red and blue glasses was like Spy Kids 3D yeah but
00:36:00
it's still the newest ones yeah they're yeah are we going to call the iPod Nano the new iPod the new iPod Nano is it the
00:36:07
newest iPod okay got off track there're a little bit old um experience with these
00:36:14
you both experienced them before me I tried a little bit this morning but I think you guys have had a little more uh
00:36:21
playing comparing the actual experiences let's not compare it yet let's just talk about these so like what did you all do
00:36:26
in these and what was it like in the actual Arness of the glasses so there's
00:36:32
a few different things that you can do with the the new spectacles the new see the new spectacles the new 3D glasses
00:36:39
spectacles um one of the things you can do is sort of this like it kind of felt like Hollow lens to me if anyone has
00:36:46
tried Hollow lens similar situation where the field of view is not very high Because the actual uh projector area is
00:36:53
just kind of in the center do you know what the technical field of view of these are I think it's 43 I don't 43°
00:36:59
both meta engineers and Our Kind Snapchat visitor seem to imply that
00:37:05
choosing glass as a wave guide also limits the field of view as opposed to
00:37:10
silicon carbide like it's not just the projector right right right but it it's definitely kind of like condensed into
00:37:16
the center of your field of vision absolutely so just like Hollow lens you sort of have all these different
00:37:22
experiences that kind of only work if you're staring directly at them one of those experiences is I mean they they
00:37:28
had a whole playground of experiences uh which was a pretty cool thing I mean they've clearly been working on this
00:37:33
technology for like a really long time and so internal at Snapchat they're just building like what are the craziest use
00:37:39
cases that we can do with it they had a classic one which is where they just have like a T-Rex that's like walking
00:37:45
around and you see the scale of it and everything but again without the without the huge field of view as soon as you
00:37:51
remotely turn your head it just starts getting cut off um also yeah it uh
00:37:57
obviously we don't have any proof of this we're not in Venice Beach hanging out with the Snapchat folks but they
00:38:02
made it seem like there's a pretty large ecosystem of developers already doing AR
00:38:08
uh they call them lenses lens each experience is called lens yeah because Snapchat lenses are also just the AR
00:38:15
experiences you use in the Snapchat ad on your phone totally but when we were doing the experiences I kept asking is
00:38:20
this an in-house one or is this a third party thing that you guys have loaded onto this demo unit and he was like
00:38:25
honestly I can't even keep track anymore interesting um yeah I mean I could see people developing on these um but it is
00:38:32
extremely expensive to develop on these for some reason wasn't it it was like $99 a mon I thought these were about
00:38:38
$100 a month with and you had to purchase a year but I guess as a developer if you're developing for
00:38:44
something that's not crazy if you're like a company I guess or yeah even if you're planning to make something that's
00:38:51
going to be that per pair though I believe so yeah okay so that's going to get expensive yeah can yeah so a big
00:38:58
differentiator I would say is like the Orion glasses have really good spatial pinning whereas these are much more like
00:39:05
Hollow lens where it's just got a sort of a field of view a smaller field of view and then when you look around you
00:39:11
know things are there still but it's not like you know the the the spatial
00:39:16
awareness and pinning is not quite the same I'm wondering if like is the pinning that much worse or is it just
00:39:23
the field of view makes it feel so much worse so it's 46° field of view on the
00:39:28
Snapchat spectacles and 70 on The Meta Orion glasses okay that seems like a
00:39:33
significant number and it feels significantly different wearing both of them like the Orion glasses if you
00:39:40
really got to the edge of your view it would happen for sure this feels like I'm fighting to keep things in my view
00:39:47
and especially if it's close um I did like the Lego experience which just puts like some Legos on a block and just by
00:39:53
like turning my head to look down I would just like saw off half of the
00:39:59
and it's not that they weren't pinned well on the table it actually did like a really impressive job at that but just
00:40:06
anything I tried to do I was cutting part of it off a significant amount of the time okay
00:40:13
so I didn't get to try the eye tracking part of the Orion glasses which these do
00:40:19
not do yeah um I did find about the spatial pinning to be better on Orion
00:40:25
and I found the and I think this is kind of the same technology the hand tracking to also be way better uh on Orion not
00:40:34
that these were unusable like totally usable but um I definitely found felt
00:40:41
myself like trying to do things to like make them work better whereas the it the
00:40:46
the metag glasses felt pretty indistinguishable from the hand tracking on a quest sure where you can just do all the same yeah yeah I have a question
00:40:52
for both of you um a lot of people that have tried Orion have been like this is our best look at the future yet and they
00:40:59
are seem very excited about it but people have tried this and they're not
00:41:04
really saying that and I tried these and it felt like they took Hollow lens which to be fair Hollow lens was pretty big
00:41:10
and they shrunk it down into these which is kind of impressive even though I just don't really think the technolog is
00:41:16
incredible incredible so what would you say about oryan is significantly more
00:41:23
like jaw-dropping than these
00:41:28
I think like if anything there no no there are plenty of things and I think we'll we might as well just start
00:41:34
pitting them against each other at this point because I think it starts answering a lot of those questiona going category by category yeah yeah yeah I um
00:41:39
first thing I wanted to ask though just to really pin on the field of view we all played the golf game on this did you
00:41:45
try it okay that was the sorry that was the one that most made me realize like that it's important yeah you like look
00:41:52
at this hole ahead of you and it like zooms you back and then it shows a line to the ball and you kind of have to
00:41:57
follow the line because you're shooting into this window where the GOL and then the ball is actually on the environment
00:42:03
that you're in but just like every time you would look you just would see all these ways it's cut off and I I think
00:42:09
what's kind of weird about this is cuz it's smaller and it's such a perfect rectangle you don't realize when you
00:42:16
move your head you start chopping things at an angle and that just feels even more weird when it's chopping stuff off
00:42:21
where the the metag glasses because the field of view is larger it was generally on the outskirts of your eyes and when
00:42:27
you're turning that much it's it's very hard to hit an edge of something you might be projecting I don't this like
00:42:33
really we keep saying Marquez and I realized this when we were talking the other day like kills the immersion but
00:42:39
AR glasses shouldn't really be immersive but they kind of are in the way that it's tricking your brain into
00:42:45
thinking there really yeah it kills that pretty hard I think to answer your question David which is a really good
00:42:51
question is that I personally did not come away after trying both these glasses thinking like the Orion ones are
00:42:59
noticeably more inspiring or like noticeably better than the spectacles uh I think they both have strengths in
00:43:06
different areas overall though I think the metag glasses were a
00:43:12
flashier pony show like the um yeah I don't know do you want to go
00:43:19
down this list I think there's a lot of things in there that I okay so let's this to me I think is the biggest thing
00:43:25
that like let's imagine these as if they were consumer products like the thing that I would want it to be and like
00:43:32
which neither of them are neither of them are where you know like I guess we can kind of take this and think of it as
00:43:37
like this is what they should become down the line but let's talk about form factor first these are supposed to be
00:43:43
glasses that you kind of wear like all day do you think so David and I were literally having this
00:43:48
exact about do you wear these all day or do you put them on to do stuff and then take them off to be a person yeah I
00:43:55
guess I would actually somewhere in the middle all day nah I all day out and not
00:44:02
at home if you're making a computer for my face I want to be able to put it on and not think about it all day I don't
00:44:07
want to have to think about whether I want to take it off or not okay look not to be overly pessimistic but like does
00:44:15
everyone really want glasses that you wear all the time that are computer connected because at some point the ads
00:44:21
are going to start coming yes yes yes you're not going to option and also like
00:44:27
do we really want a future where you're sitting in a a coffee shop scrolling reals but nobody nobody even knows what
00:44:33
you're that you're doing that like you're going to have Subway Surfers playing off to the sideway you're trying to have a conversation with your mom
00:44:39
like I'm epic I want it sorry Mom have a better conversation my also from meta anyway
00:44:47
you could block out in this beautiful AR future with met
00:44:53
premium as a as an like the whole idea of like being able to dive into some
00:44:58
Computing by putting on the glasses while still not being like taken out of
00:45:03
cuz I'll be real I'll be real I'd rather have a coffee shop full of people with ar glasses on Tik Tok than a coffee shop
00:45:10
full of people with airpods and their phones on Tik Tok well they're still going to wear the airpods well no
00:45:16
because of the the the yeah but they have leakage and they I think I I'm not worried about that okay um that being
00:45:23
said uh I agree with you David I think there the battery life restrictions on these things oh yeah are a good
00:45:31
thing I kind of think don't make it don't make it better yeah keep it there
00:45:37
and yeah the ads are really worrying dude cuz it's it's a sad world when you're in the car with your bud you're
00:45:43
doing a road trip and you're both wi your speckies and you uh and you look out the window and you both stare at the
00:45:49
same area and you see different Billboards right now if we're trying to talk about like what's cool about these
00:45:55
get getting straight into the like potential conversation feels like we we're like losing a little bit of the
00:46:01
tech on this form factor for sure for sure um we were we're still having this conversation though of like do you wear
00:46:08
them for a few hours so like when companies started using like HTC Vibes and all of that stuff in actual practice
00:46:15
you know there would be press releases that say like BMW or Mercedes is using Vibes to like help design the Interiors
00:46:22
of the cars I'm not sure if that actually was a thing that they like implemented full on or if they did it
00:46:28
once so that they could have a press release why else would there be a hard hat Hollow lens that's fair point Fair
00:46:33
Point um but either way you know those are tasks that you are specifically
00:46:39
using the device so that it is better while you are do designing the little bits of this car for an hour and a half
00:46:45
right and so I think we've looked at things like the uh Apple Vision Pro in a
00:46:53
similar way right like oh you want to do a video call a FaceTime call with someone and you want to feel like this
00:46:59
telepresence and they're floating in the room and you're doing this over here like they're kind of positioning it as a
00:47:04
work and entertainment device but they're not POS positioning that as like an all day device and I understand it's
00:47:10
because it's a headset and not a pair of glasses um but for a for a computer to
00:47:17
be on your face all the time I feel like it would be better for people to use it for specific tasks and then put it away
00:47:24
the the thing that kind of makes that tricky is that they're trying to make it look as much like a normal pair of
00:47:30
glasses that you would normally wear all day as possible and so I do think the future we headed towards is the future
00:47:36
where they're trying to get that eight hours of battery life and ALS and and that's that's because at the end of the
00:47:42
day both meta and Snapchat are companies whose business models rely on attention
00:47:48
increasing engagement and increasing time spent I mean I think here both of them are building these as things that
00:47:54
stay in your face for a significant part of your day not just pulling it out for when you want to use it which is a shame
00:48:01
I disagree that's how I want I guess like if I'm going out for the day I don't want to have to bring like a pair
00:48:06
of like I want my sunglasses to just have the things in it already and when I want that I have it if if of the world
00:48:15
all day I just want it to be a regular pair of glasses all day and then when I need to use it it's just there cuz
00:48:20
otherwise I'm not bringing it which is what the meta Ray bands are supposed to be basically well but they have no projection this is no no but that's
00:48:26
still the world that they're like looking towards right they're trying to make these in the form factor of the
00:48:32
meta Ray bands that's like their ultimate goal this is all to say as a form factor assuming we're only wearing
00:48:38
these for an hour at a time these are just too big to be comfortable they're they're just barely too big to be form
00:48:45
factor the Met Orion win and by a mile yeah I'm laying it down here first I'm
00:48:52
Pro Puck oh I was just going to say I disagree because these have a puck no
00:48:57
the space you save in the glasses that I would assume is because in part because of the compute Puck is cool and it fits
00:49:04
into my fantasy of when I need to use these I take out my glasses in a cute little glasses case I take out the puck
00:49:10
in a cute little puck case and I put it on the table and I use my glasses and then when I'm done I wrap it all up and I I go back to being a human person with
00:49:17
blood in my veins my perfect example my perfect use case for this are these glasses the Snapchat ones with no Puck
00:49:23
because the compu is in my phone I'm already carrying around a puck let me just use the brains in that thing whoa
00:49:29
yeah I mean I would prefer not to carry an extra piece of equipment yeah yeah but the only reason the meta Orion
00:49:35
glasses have a puck is because they can't make a phone if they could just make a phone and people would use it it would just be in the phone well they can
00:49:41
make an app that's all sna to yeah but then Apple's going to take 30% now I see what you're talking about
00:49:47
I still think as far as form factor goes I like the idea of lighter weight more
00:49:52
comfortable glasses and a companion I like it I'm sorry so you don't need your
00:49:58
phone I guess the the benefit there is you don't need your phone I mean the ultimate form factor is just the glasses
00:50:03
what about this what about glasses that you can wear all the time but they work so well as regular glasses that are like
00:50:10
transition lenses or whatever that you can like have them be off and then when you want to use the compute you can turn
00:50:15
them on that's that's what they're do yeah but I think that the idea right now
00:50:21
is sort of just that they're always sort of running in the background and giving you like additional like a R q's and
00:50:27
that kind of stuff like you don't think about it you walk up to a new person it says Andrew above your head I don't
00:50:34
think that's necessarily they're forcing that or anything I think I think we're
00:50:40
imagining things because meta is bad which I don't disagree with but I think
00:50:46
like I don't think they've ever said that this is just going to start playing things without you asking or doing
00:50:52
things but they haven't not said that yeah and we've all used Facebook so form
00:50:57
factor which one the or you to I haven't
00:51:03
gotten to try it so I have no opinion no but just form factor I mean like you saw them on people's faces which one looked
00:51:09
more like definitely looks more like glasses but style points for the speckies nice I like them yeah they do
00:51:15
look like Co and you can call them speckies which is a plus if I look you know there's there's two sides there's
00:51:21
one side where it's like the right outfit roll up to the club at 1:00 a.m. you're getting in with those the other side is if you wear any orange at all
00:51:28
you will become Vector from Despicable Me so you know true whatever um the four
00:51:34
factor I want is the original generation of spectacles but with the benefits Jesus
00:51:40
yeah those were the most resolution disgusting uh that is
00:51:46
not a question because uh the Snapchat spectacles have such a better resolution
00:51:52
than the Orion ones the actual projections on the snap spectacles are yeah what feels like Miles
00:51:58
Ahead we have to say over at meta they were like we could have made it higher resolution but we were prioritizing
00:52:05
battery life and saving compute for other things okay so question for you guys since you tried it do you think that's the right trade-off would you
00:52:11
take a hit and resolution to have more power like that I think both of the
00:52:17
battery lives are terrible on these so but like IDE think it's really like
00:52:22
resolution or field of view field of view okay that's a that's a really good question I'd rather have the field the
00:52:28
resolution field of view too but I also I think we should and this will make we can talk about this more when we get to the actual
00:52:34
experiences assuming that there was a major compute hit on like either it was
00:52:40
like literal compute or like the extra thermal load you need to be able to take up by doing that much more compute I did
00:52:46
find the experiences to be a lot more enriching on the Snapchat spectacles wait but those are the higher resolution
00:52:52
ones so what the hell I mean I think there's just more I mean we can talk about that just a lot
00:52:58
of stuff you can do apps and experiences the Snapchat spectacles have way more
00:53:04
things than I think for or and better things and better like I are we are we
00:53:09
going into experiences now are we there yeah yeah let's just do exper we all said resolution for spectacles if that's just resolution tech companies David and
00:53:15
I have been saying this for a while you can't use an example of your product as
00:53:21
I'm too stupid to do this without a computer you can't so when they were like I want to make a smoothie and my
00:53:28
pantry is only smoothie ingredients and I just can't figure it out it's like or he was like I go into the grocery store
00:53:34
and I have no idea what a summer squash is but my wife will be mad it's like dude yeah there are L you don't even
00:53:40
need to take care your phone for that one straight up like yeah yeah I mean in that instance I think it's more showing
00:53:48
off the fact that they were able to pin the names of objects they are identifying I think it was more that was
00:53:54
the more important part was the tech demo not what you could actually do with it yeah I mean I yeah I agree it's like
00:54:01
that's a banana thanks for letting me know I or like that's the giant bag that says like Stevia on it with in giant
00:54:08
letters it's like okay you read that it said Stevia I agree with you though the pinning was impressive yeah no the pinning was impressive the object
00:54:14
recognition it's great but it's at the same time it's like there's a you're making a lifestyle
00:54:20
proposition when you're doing stuff like this and it's like if the lifestyle proposition is like do you order door Dash so much that you can't identify
00:54:27
Basic Foods do you need the rest of your life to be more like door Dash buy these $30,000 glasses like totally I mean the
00:54:33
the classic example is like EV I've been to so many chatbot demos and large
00:54:38
language model demos and every single time it's like some Google engineer who has like 30 patents and probably a Nobel
00:54:44
Prize and they're just like so how do I write a social media post about my cute
00:54:49
dog and then the the post that gets written is Happy Dog Day # Saturday
00:54:57
you know I it's I don't know whatever we can move on from that sorry that was a separate tangent a separate tangent
00:55:02
let's go down the list in terms of like the experience no experien so but in all
00:55:08
seriousness the my favorite experience was uh the ping pong pong just regular
00:55:14
pong I played with Marquez on the orass and it was because uh it was the first time I had ever used Mr AR VR and had
00:55:24
like a really meaningful share shed experience with someone else I've done multiplayer games with people in quest
00:55:30
and it was fun and done I've done a few I I've I had a great time with my cousins playing this like squirrel game
00:55:36
in VR that was really great remember that yeah so fun in VR being able to like see Marquez and and play a game
00:55:44
with him and then when I asked you know it wasn't built into this current thing but they were like yeah you if you had a
00:55:49
room full of people also wearing the spectacles they could like spectate you know like Orion glasses thank you yeah
00:55:56
that's that's cool man that's that's really cool so you're Orion I no I thought that was every other experience
00:56:03
other than that one I thought was cooler on the spectacles I thought the I think it was called Beat Lab it was like this
00:56:08
music making one dude I tried that one I could not get it to work properly okay the hand tracking is not on the
00:56:15
spectacles it's pretty rough it was cool that it yeah and I thought the experience was so fun that I actually didn't care about how how rough it was I
00:56:22
thought the educational things like looked really beautiful and were like really engag um the the Lego thing was I thought I
00:56:29
just thought yeah like yeah I more fun the easy thing here is the the room we
00:56:35
did with the Orion spectacle or the the Orion glasses was like five experiences
00:56:40
maybe it was video chatting make a smoothie pong that arcade airplane game
00:56:47
and and go on Instagram and go and the Instagram app that's also not on an iPad
00:56:53
Snapchat you open up the first menu of experience and there's already more than that and then you can scroll for what
00:56:59
feels like quite a while so there are 10x the amount of apps on spectacles
00:57:04
whether it's just a not so great golf game that's another story but the Orion things weren't that great either so I
00:57:11
think apps experiences the Snapchat spectacles yeah I mean to be fair this is kind of Snapchats bread and butter
00:57:18
it's what they've been working on for years and like clearly meta has a lot going on so they're a lean team you know
00:57:25
oh my goodness it is funny that they built an Instagram app for AR before they built it for the
00:57:32
iPad makes me mad can't make that stuff up um let's go since you guys both briefly talked about it though uh like
00:57:40
controlling so I can't just call it hand tracking because it's different on the Orion glasses there's hand tracking as
00:57:46
well as the bracelet yeah I was going to say are we counting the EMG band Yes it's part of the package I feel like
00:57:52
yeah it doesn't need it which I think by itself is a great thing that meta did was like you can get this but you also
00:57:59
don't need it so if you pass your classes off to someone else they can use hand tracking yeah so I never actually got to try the EMG band so I can compare
00:58:06
them both on computer vision hand track should I do that and then I'll let you guys dive into the band so the the
00:58:12
winner here for me was Orion and maybe it was because I'm used to the quest
00:58:18
system and I'm familiar with the gestures and how to make them really clear and stuff but I felt like it more
00:58:24
accurately got that um um I did feel like the Snapchat spectacles had really nice and easy physical buttons on them
00:58:32
and I'm I'm looping that in with just like General bandless control that I thought was really cool and uh but
00:58:38
overall I didn't other than the hand tracking Clarity I didn't find one of them to be dramatically better than the
00:58:43
other one an interesting thing to note is if you like hold the Rin glasses there's cameras everywhere on them if
00:58:50
you look at these there's only two cameras on the front but on the bottom despite it looking like Smooth plastic
00:58:57
there's actually infrared cameras oh um and those are the downward facing cameras I think they actually might be
00:59:03
right there these like little I don't actually know where they are but I do know that they're in there and uh and
00:59:08
that's how they look down at your hands and I thought that was a really Nifty fact for us to give you here at wave for
00:59:14
I will I think it's pretty easy to describe how good the band was and that's imagine the uh dragons
00:59:24
Vision nice the Apple Vision Pro like first of all you get to use your eyes to look at things
00:59:30
which I think is like the best way of selecting things inside of arvr when it's calibrated correctly when it's
00:59:35
calibrated well which you do do a calibration process in um the Orion ones H sorry say it again so so imagine the
00:59:43
Apple Vision Pro eye selecting and tapping except because you have that wristband you get feedback with it every
00:59:49
time as well yeah it's fantastic I think it's like so much better um and then
00:59:55
being able to do like flipping and scrolling is awesome that band itself
01:00:00
and the fact that it's like very minimal and doesn't feel like you're wearing this giant like handcuff or anything
01:00:06
it's in fact Marquez was wearing it we went to eat lunch and forgot he was wearing it he just thought it was like
01:00:12
oh he never took it off he never took it off you forget you're wearing it and then you're like whoop there it is he y
01:00:18
cuz it looks like a whoop it does look like a whoop so I think control wise meta wins like hands down right well
01:00:24
hands up literally anywhere you want random using with his hands behind his back wow uh
01:00:31
which I don't think you oh sorry I was going to say hand behind his back but yeah that is kind of crazy though because we talk about the on the Vision
01:00:37
Pro it has like a really wide field of vision for what you're doing with your fingers but that's because it has those
01:00:44
uh lenses on the bottom area where it points down but you can't do behind your back I don't really know why you would
01:00:50
want to do that but at least at least you could you know I mean I technically like in my hoodie
01:00:56
contrs of my hood yeah or like you know I feel like a lot of this is going to be used for evil stuff so when you're in
01:01:02
your big living room and you're pacing behind your back right the evil
01:01:09
villain Pace yeah because evil humans plot with their hands behind
01:01:15
their back evil flies are the ones that plot with their hands in front of them friction yeah any who Damn I was so
01:01:22
close to cutting that but now I have to keep it that was hilarious thanks man um
01:01:28
all right pinning we kind of talked about I think I pinning and tracking is
01:01:33
the same technology right uh um like I feel like tracking I think of hand
01:01:38
tracking and pinning I think yeah but what's the difference I I'm talking about like pinning things in the physical world and them staying no no I
01:01:46
get that but like is it not the same thing it's just tracking a 3D space with
01:01:51
the Snapchat spectacles when you like lay something on a table if you walk away and come back is it in the same
01:01:56
space I had a window floating by my desk that I came back to and really on these
01:02:02
yeah it is I can confirm if you think about it that's both of these companies know
01:02:07
how to do that already a Snapchat's been doing it with ar things inside of your phone and Snapchat forever they're good
01:02:12
at pinning the dancing hot dog guy on where wherever you want and met has been doing it in the quest we've been able to
01:02:19
do this since like the 3DS they're both great at it so I don't know if I have a clear winner on that it's easy iier to
01:02:26
see all the things you pinned on the the Orion glasses cuz it's 70° field of view instead of 46 Dee field of view but
01:02:32
they're probably both pinned pretty well yeah from what we've tried I mean it's also we've all tried these for 20
01:02:39
minutes each maybe yeah so not not anything too crazy yeah
01:02:46
speakers it's minimal if you're going to ask me which pair of these speakers are better that's like asking a pizza chef
01:02:52
like who makes a better slice Lunchables or lunch Le either of them are Pizza like one's got mold on it though right
01:02:59
no bad example uh this will be my only thing it's not even sound quality
01:03:05
whenever anyone was using the metag glasses I never heard it as an outsider these spectacles whether the volume was
01:03:11
just too loud but I felt like I heard everybody using these in the The Meta Ray band glasses are good at when you're playing music just playing them directly
01:03:17
into your ears and not being that loud that is true so that could be user R and I don't know if we just turn these on
01:03:23
too loud but everyone I heard with this I heard you guys The Meta Ray bands like
01:03:28
they probably took those learnings from The Meta Ray bands and they definitely like those are product product products so they have to be out in the real world
01:03:34
and work correctly these are extremely demo unit um and I'm I know that the
01:03:40
Orion glasses are also demo units but they still tried to make them more product like well and you're saying it
01:03:46
they most likely they took the learnings from an actual product that they're like an evolved version that's the only
01:03:52
reason I would give Orion the speakers thing right now I did not come away from those experiences feeling like they were
01:03:58
significantly yeah different in any way except for isolation I guess yeah but I I was the one wearing I'm sorry fair
01:04:05
enough um battery life this is literally just a number Orion is better Yeah by
01:04:11
double yeah but that makes it worse for the reasons I said earlier
01:04:16
well even if you want them but wouldn't you rather than if you're using it minimally to then have to charge it less
01:04:22
nope okay um the the last thing I have on here is
01:04:27
just the actual lens material itself and how that affects using
01:04:33
them at first I was going to say the Snapchat spectacles because glass they're glass and I thought it felt like
01:04:40
a clearer I keep wanting to call it pass through but you know seeing is just what
01:04:46
it really is um AR yeah because the silicon carbide had what felt like kind
01:04:52
of a tint and like it almost felt it like felt like I was looking through something but then now seeing these in
01:04:57
more direct lights and seeing that prism effect I do think that like affects the
01:05:04
actual uh I have like things on your screen can I see the glasses I just feel like in order to say the next thing I'm
01:05:10
going to say I need to put them on the uh index of refraction with a
01:05:18
glass wave guide is uh worse and it does create weirder artifacts weird rainbows
01:05:26
and it is a little clearer the thing that I would describe the like overall
01:05:31
um like take experience is and I understand this is something that very
01:05:37
few people have like actually seen but sorry I'm taking off the glasses it's very awkward um if you've ever
01:05:43
gotten a chance to hold a raw like uh LCD panel like not in an enclosure like
01:05:49
just took up to a power supply and a um and then you UNH Helix all of the
01:05:56
crystals At Once by setting it like a pure pattern that is what it oh I know
01:06:01
exactly what you're talking about okay okay but Engineers listen to this they might have done that I still think very
01:06:07
few people have done that so everyone go to alibaba.com uh but that's that's what I would
01:06:14
compare it to like like un unhoused LCD fully UNH Helix does it change your
01:06:19
opinion at all that using silicon carbide potentially 10x is the price of
01:06:24
whatever it is well that's an interesting point here that I think we can I mean it's all Dev
01:06:30
stuff so it doesn't really matter yeah these are available for people who want to develop for outside of snap well
01:06:35
that's what I was going to say it does matter and they're like 120 a month for at least one year so expensive but
01:06:41
doable versus the other one is basically Unum unless you work for meta yeah and it seems like and if you listen after
01:06:48
this ad break Marquez is going to do an interview with BOS and I believe he threw out the number 20,000 to 30,000 a
01:06:55
unit and I'm pretty sure he did not fight back on that look dude Instagram not on a phone is
01:07:03
expensive so those yeah those units are significantly more expensive yeah they
01:07:08
did say something interesting at that briefing which was they believe that silicon carbide is the the future
01:07:15
technology for this product class when it becomes like a widely adopted thing but they also said if the industry
01:07:21
decides they're going with glass they're ready to make the switch like they're they're not willing to die on the
01:07:27
silicon carbide Hill even though they believe eventually it will be the dominant wave guide material well Evan
01:07:34
Spiegel told us that he thinks that glass is going to be where it's at so exactly I think oh I guess that's it I
01:07:39
guess that's all the categories that's all I have do you have any other questions about Orion or if you
01:07:45
just by how we're explaining Orion what do you think would be the
01:07:51
more enjoyable experience between the two I mean I think think that the little
01:07:57
things often make for a better experience and the little things in my opinion are going to be how good it is
01:08:03
at at actually like tracking what you want to do with the input with it uh the
01:08:08
field of view those things are things that like you kind of got to get the fit and finish before people actually want
01:08:14
to put it on their face because if even if you had like really really good software if the input's bad you're not
01:08:21
going to use it if you have really really good software but it only works here it's not not going to be immersive
01:08:26
yep so I think that kind of stuff is the stuff that's eventually going to win out this isn't to say I mean I'm sure that
01:08:32
Snapchat is working on much more advanced versions of these that have like much wider field of view and all
01:08:38
those different things um you know I'm they'll probably release something and then next year or so I'm I I totally
01:08:47
agree like as much as I want resolution to be so much better the field of view
01:08:52
was like the field of view and literally wearing it on my face where it's not full holding my ear in half is like the
01:08:58
entire experience itself so I have to like vote for the Orion glasses on this
01:09:03
um I would not be surprised if the eventual consumer version of both of these look vastly vastly different
01:09:10
toally um cuz like the that chart of what the Orion glasses looked like over the last couple years they showed us the
01:09:16
first one was gigantic yeah and then within like a couple years it was down to something
01:09:21
that actually is under 100 gram yeah I still really want to try ory because a lot of people were like it's absolutely
01:09:28
the future it's incredible and I just don't get that from AR right now you have to look I think and maybe you'll
01:09:35
agree with me on this you have to look at it in the most optimistic Viewpoint possible to come to that conclusion and
01:09:42
I think if you if you can see like how far it's come to get to that and how much they
01:09:48
have to do and so small of a form factor and like do all the stuff that is super impressive but if you just took that
01:09:54
pair of glasses and went to like a friend of yours and said hey try this out they would be like this is so why
01:10:01
would I ever use these interesting I think uh and this is no shade to anyone that said the Orion glasses were the
01:10:07
future and amazing but I think if you had tried the Snapchat ones first you would have probably like I don't really
01:10:12
think the Orion glasses in particular are like the super special thing also remember it's these
01:10:19
were debuted as part of like a a briefing like people didn't just try these they listen to Executives talk
01:10:24
about they are for an hour and then try them like we do that with a lot of stuff yeah and you know sometimes we go to
01:10:30
Hawaii for a week and uh and look at qualcom chips um yeah I have a free I I
01:10:37
have a free idea any developer can take this for for an AR experience it's
01:10:43
called anti- meditation and its goal is to do the exact opposite of what a
01:10:48
meditative experience is supposed to do so the whole idea is like you have your glasses right and then I'm assuming if
01:10:54
you have the glasses you are wearable out you've got the whoop you've got the ring in this universe you've got the the
01:11:00
Theos chip that's like tracking your blood and all of these Health metrics
01:11:05
your uh your eight Sleep mattress all of them on the the the the lenses as like a
01:11:12
permanent HUD you've got like 60 health bars I know where you're going and the whole idea is you can constantly just
01:11:17
look and see what's going on in your body and over the years your your your personal like instinctive relationship
01:11:24
about your own bodily ineds will be disintegrated by just by the Conant and eventually you'll be completely detached
01:11:32
from all your inner thoughts feelings and urges isn't this just Brian Johnson I was literally just about to say that I
01:11:38
was going to say I'm pretty sure Brian Johnson goes through this every day so if you want to steal that idea it's all
01:11:43
yours it's officially in the public domain um speaking of Brian Johnson okay
01:11:49
so after this uh Mar after the next ad break Marquez is going to be talking to metac B about the Orion glasses uh Etc
01:11:59
so we'll cut to there soon but first H you thought I was going to say trivia just letting you guys know the books
01:12:05
Palma 2 has just dropped let's go they added a phone they
01:12:11
didn't that would have been great uh has a new processor it has a the fingerprint
01:12:16
reader is built into the power button now and it runs Android 13 and that's it
01:12:22
didn't you say it didn't have a camera that is a cheap version that's launching in China but the officials Palma 2 still
01:12:29
has the exact same camera and the exact same resolution screen exact same everything and it's the exact same price
01:12:36
people spend so much money like on like photo editing apps and like after
01:12:42
effects filters and like all this stuff to make their photos look a type away and that books pal a camera just Nails
01:12:49
it in body bro excuse me that book's Palma photo document scanner it's such
01:12:55
if you it's so dope I love that camera so much yeah we'll I'm bringing my books
01:13:01
back tomorrow it's been a few weeks since I've daed it but man I got to I got to celebrate with my with my Palmer
01:13:07
out there yeah so we'll have to get a books books books books it's books
01:13:13
buts we'll get one in the office and we'll test it out and it's probably going to be exactly the same as the first one but at least you'll be able to
01:13:19
buy them now because it was very difficult to buy the books Palma because the number one books Palma influencer in
01:13:25
the world just created a storm you and David Pierce probably sold 80% of their
01:13:30
uh of their Market David I was first actually I think you might actually I think that who me no D Pier yeah I think
01:13:38
he was first I think in I don't know no I think the Dum phone video was before that I don't think so they did he
01:13:43
mentioned it in a newsletter I think and was like oh I haven't tried this but it's kind of cool and then I shocked the World by
01:13:50
D and then I and then I think David wrote it up again we'll do a deeper
01:13:55
timeline dive yeah coming up okay until then let's take it to
01:14:03
trivia trivia second question what is baz's real
01:14:09
name like is that really it like his first name I will give bonus points cuz Ellis has an actual question but no I
01:14:16
want the full name I'm throwing in a bonus question just to keep you on your toes what's the bonus question I just
01:14:21
told I just gave it to you that was the bonus question now we need the real question now you're getting the real that was just the bonus that was just me
01:14:27
messing with you guys so what is baz's real name now Ellis has a real question I do have a real question and what's
01:14:33
hilarious is I didn't write it down because I did write down a question that sucked and then I thought of a better
01:14:38
question while I was over here which is the or the the [Laughter]
01:14:45
oregano the original Macintosh aka the Macintosh
01:14:51
128k had a lot of features that its competitors had but it had one utility
01:14:57
feature that would be repeated on the iMac G3 what was
01:15:04
it can I have a hint cuz that feels very
01:15:10
broad I'm trying to think of a hint um what would be a good hint um the
01:15:19
feature I'll give you a hint when we get to the similar well like okay I don't
01:15:25
know ask me a question Define a utility feature something that you can use the computer I don't know like give
01:15:34
me an adjacent like utility feature like another utility feature that the computer had this is kind of the one I
01:15:42
mean it's the original Macintosh it wasn't a very usable feature it's the feature here it's a design
01:15:48
element wait like wait that doesn't help at all this is one of the iconic parts
01:15:54
of this computer and the iMac G3 I have a guess I have a guess also now I had the iBook G4
01:16:00
clamshell yeah the the power book yeah the power book that shipped with Tony proos no not the power book the iBook
01:16:08
the one that looked like a clam it looked like the clear had a handle it had a handle built into it it was a
01:16:14
laptop with a handle yeah I booked G4 G3 crazy who would ever put a handle on a
01:16:22
computer we'll answer those questions after the
01:16:27
[Music]
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break support for waveform comes from AT&T what is it feel like to get the new
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iPhone 16 Pro with AT&T Next up anytime it's like when you first pick up those tongs and you're now the one running the
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grill it's Indescribable like something you've never felt before all the mouthwatering anticipation of new
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01:16:59
which you know will forever change the way they look at corn seriously it's the best you'll never boil corn again with
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AT&T Next up anytime you can feel this way again and again and again learn how to get the new iPhone 16 Pro with apple
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Intelligence on them and the latest iPhone every year with AT&T Next up anytime AT&T connecting changes
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everything Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024 with Syrian device language set to us English some features and languages will be coming over the next
01:17:26
year $0 offer may not be available on future iPhones next up anytime feature may be discontinued at anytime subject to change additional fees terms and
01:17:32
restrictions apply c.com Ione for details all right BOS thank you for the
01:17:37
time yeah of course and for the expertise okay so I'm holding a transparent version of uh the Orion and
01:17:43
these are fully functional like everything fits and works in these that's right and when they're transparent like this I can see that
01:17:48
there is a ton of stuff happening in here what is the most challenging part
01:17:53
of getting to this explain from all the previous much larger versions you had that's right there's two parts of this that are hard the first one is the
01:17:59
displays just having them exist at all and any form factor is super hard um and obviously the challenge of the tightness
01:18:05
and then the second one is The Thermals I mean the reason it's as big as it is and we worked hard to get it down is the
01:18:10
you know how much technology is running in there is putting off heat and that will cause it to shut down that's why
01:18:15
the real version has magnesium you this clear plastic one we use as a demo but actually would shut down in about 30
01:18:20
minutes of use uh just because of The Thermals so these ones are actually magnesium um this kind of very cool cod
01:18:26
magnesium to allow my thermal dissipation so actually these run at the limit to the battery life about two to
01:18:32
three hours of active use um and honestly you cannot believe how much we have to put in here to cover ey tracking
01:18:39
you know slam obviously the displays all the wireless all the audio uh all the
01:18:44
microphones um yeah that's quite a bit in there it is incredibly efficient I mean you have the custom silicon you're
01:18:49
doing a lot of processing to turn the seven sensors on the outside into usable data tracking the outside world tracking
01:18:56
the eyes I noticed there's only two sensors on the arms tracking the eyes
01:19:02
that's it yeah we got two two two sensors on the arms and then a glint of infrared light coming from the inside of
01:19:08
the lens and that's enough to track the eyes really effectively and we've been so pleased that people have noticed that we've gotten we think to you know
01:19:14
industry-leading level of eye tracking um in this tiny form factor that's obviously a tremendous feat not just of
01:19:21
Hardware but of software as well yeah so I we on obviously these these aren't um going to be shipping to everyone these
01:19:27
are an internal prototype that was at some point considered maybe plausible to ship when we started we wanted to ship
01:19:33
it externally um and actually amazingly the technology is working as well as we'd hoped it would back then the cost
01:19:39
ended up being much higher so that's that's my question so obviously there are pieces of this that cost a lot it's
01:19:45
low volume of course it's more expensive but what does getting to a lower price
01:19:50
actually look like for these and what is a price that feels like a good Target
01:19:56
for potentially the first ever AR glasses that people actually get to use
01:20:01
yeah um so the major driver of the cost 90% of the cost is in the display architecture and these are custom micro
01:20:06
LEDs that we designed develop manufactured ourselves um you know they're individually hundreds of thousands of knits and brightness um and
01:20:13
they pipe through these wave guides silicon carbide wave guides um which is an very cool glad we got this this with
01:20:20
us very cool material and very challenging material to work with like very and there's not really a supply
01:20:26
chain for growing silicon carbide crystals of this Clarity at this size and then manufacturing it stuff and that
01:20:32
was really what ended up being the thing that set us in the product path of making this an internal prototype that we're using to develop the software for
01:20:37
future versions there is some good news though which is that um other materials have some trade-offs that are tough um
01:20:43
really tough to maintain the field of view that we have without super high index of refraction materials like that
01:20:48
yeah um but other materials are much cheaper much lighter like glass you were saying like glass lithium niobate um
01:20:54
High index refraction glass like there's a lot of materials that are we can still do a lot of the same uh kind of
01:20:59
holograms in space really cool virtual you know visual artifacts that you can manipulate um and ends up being
01:21:07
potentially cheaper smaller a little thinner um maybe even a little bit brighter so there are some trade-offs
01:21:13
that are it's not all not all bad news mhm yeah I mean these are also super
01:21:18
super dense in in just Tech in general and the fact that like literally the Magnesium on the outside is a heat think
01:21:24
for the components on the inside is a testament to how well integrated this is
01:21:30
um talk to me about like how you decide about like the future of these products and okay we have almost no supply chain
01:21:37
now for silicon carbide but we think that this is the best option to at least give a shot what are your thoughts on
01:21:43
like exploring other materials is this going to potentially be like opening a door for many other manufactures to try
01:21:49
silicon carbide and maybe that becomes a way forward in the future yeah I love this there's first of all we've always been multi in this thing so like we when
01:21:56
you're building something this risky actually honestly we probably had as many failures as we had successes to get
01:22:02
to this point um you know we had a lot of Technology paths that that dead ended but we had enough paths going in
01:22:07
parallel that some of them made it through enough to make this whole product and so the same is true we're going to continue to pursue silic and
01:22:13
carbide we're also pursuing lithium naate and high index glass and we're also looking at novel materials actually
01:22:18
in research we've actually run very cool thing that I haven't told anyone about before took a large language model and trained it on material proper properties
01:22:25
okay and have now identified a candidate set of materials that could have incredible Optical properties and be
01:22:31
much cheaper and lighter to manufacture did you ask ory for we just we we just use hey meta that's right got it um and
01:22:37
so we've been working with Fair on that so we're not we're pursuing every path we can and what is really exciting to me
01:22:44
is with AI in particular we see a lot of cool products between the raven metas that I'm wearing now and these Orion
01:22:51
glasses that are all super valid so what if I had a I do I need a huge display if
01:22:56
what I really want is to get my answers more efficiently just you know visually back to me then I can have a smaller
01:23:02
field of view display a smaller product a cheaper product and that's going to be fine as far as what the price is going
01:23:07
to be it's funny I did have some of the folks in our research team who've been around a long time in particular our
01:23:12
chief scientist Michael abash who's been through several generations of computing and he reminded me that he paid you know
01:23:19
modern equivalent of 25 or $30,000 for his first computer uh back in the 1980s and that wasn't common and that would be
01:23:26
what we're talking about as a retail price for something today and so it's not outlandish um I do think the
01:23:31
expectation that we have as Savvy modern consumers is a lot higher than that um so we want to drive the prices down it's
01:23:37
hard for me to imagine full AR glasses coming in for less than a cell phone given that they literally have more than
01:23:42
a cell phone's worth of technology in them um but I think there's a lot of products like the you know these Rayband
01:23:48
metas that I'm wearing now that between that and this kind of full AR glasses that are pretty great and then we'll
01:23:54
hopefully coming into price points in between yeah it's interesting cuz I think a lot of people see this and this is super cool and this is futuristic but
01:23:59
there is a potential like lineup of different products at different price points I always I've been saying Google
01:24:05
Glass is ahead of its time for so long CU every time I see these I always remember Google Glass had some of this
01:24:11
stuff even though it looked kind of weird but like I always picture walking through New York City with a little
01:24:16
arrow in the corner of my head to tell me where to turn for the next subway stop and the fact that that's actually
01:24:22
now potentially with these tracked over the actual Street for example in real
01:24:27
time just all these examples pop into my head of things that this could do for regular people uh is there is there a
01:24:34
killer app that you think is going to convince people that AR glasses are actually the future yeah as they say in
01:24:39
our industry there's no bad ideas just bad timing um and I think in the case of of Google Glass they didn't respect how
01:24:45
much people care how they look and I think it's one of the things we've tried to design one of the reasons we're working with luxotica on these glasses
01:24:51
is is to really respect that um the use cases are frankly just this is one of
01:24:56
the reasons I love building this internal prototype it's a fully working you've used it like the operating system works like you can run apps you can like
01:25:02
get in and out of the system pretty easily a lot of our ideas of what was going to be great have not been as great
01:25:08
we talked about the idea we used to always talk about oh we're going to have a chess game between us but chess is like a very fiddly game actually if you
01:25:13
and I wanted to sumon a chessboard we would just summon a 2d panel between us and play it that way whereas a bunch of
01:25:19
things that we thought maybe wouldn't be great have been great so I I don't want to put words in your mouth for me at least video calling
01:25:24
which I was very skeptical why would I want a video call for my glasses I actually found it very compelling I was like oh this is cool I'm handsfree I
01:25:31
could be animated to the other party via codak Avatar and I'm just like yeah casually doing whatever I'm doing and
01:25:37
taking a video call I would probably do more video calls if that was if that was a technology that I had we never would
01:25:43
have guessed that before we built and used the Prototype so it's still super early I don't think we've identify the
01:25:48
killer app by any means um but I do think you know watching video in downtime things I would normally kind of
01:25:54
take my phone out of my pocket to do but like H like it's inconvenient I think those things we underestimate the degree
01:26:00
of friction that little movement creates that's what we've seen with the ray metas with cameras that little bit of
01:26:05
friction you have a great camera in your pocket but that little bit of friction is enough for me to miss a picture with my kid yeah or to not want to take my
01:26:11
camera out and dis intermediate myself from The Experience yeah so there's a bunch of things that we're going to learn just from having this prototype
01:26:17
internally and being able to use it and play with it yeah that's my always huge question is like I feel like I'm so
01:26:22
focused on today's gadgets I have a hard time picturing a future without smartphones I feel like We'll always just have a thing that we just carry but
01:26:30
to your point there are little little things like that where it feels like that is something that actually does
01:26:35
better than smartphones which is cool uh I've also been wearing something this entire video that I don't know if
01:26:41
anyone's noticed which is this wristband on my wrist um which is a crazy Tech in
01:26:47
itself that it's looking at electrical impulses inside my arm to determine which fingers are touching and and I've
01:26:54
heard you guys describe this as a very high ceiling input that's right with potential amazing future stuff can you
01:26:59
talk about that yeah so this is just the beginning today you're using it to detect Taps and touches and it's nice that you can have your hands completely
01:27:05
at your rest which is especially if you're walking you don't want to walk with your hands out in front of you um yeah and but over time we think we can
01:27:12
do a lot more with it for example internally we have a demo with just with that wristband I can detect my handwriting and so I can do text entry
01:27:17
just by handwriting in my pocket I can't believe that okay so you're you're in space not even holding a pen no just
01:27:24
just at at rest and you're just just at rest and you're just writing things in air and it can detect based on the
01:27:29
electrical impulses moving through my arm roughly the shapes that I'm drawing in the air and then right create words
01:27:34
from that that's right and that's amazing yeah so we had that and if you had if you had one in each
01:27:40
wrist um for example if there was a watch in your other hand that had the same kind of EMG technology built into it you could also type at your at rest
01:27:47
and it could absolutely detect what you were typing with very very high accuracy wow okay um and so we think there's a
01:27:52
lot of upside to this kind thing and we've also discovered this is again the value of building prototypes and putting
01:27:58
them into the world is people have really enjoyed the haptics you have the little haptic feedback yeah um so you actually have a sense of what you're
01:28:03
doing how you're interacting with the system which we think we can develop a lot more um and over time this also
01:28:08
should be a system that we can develop to learn you so well that over time you actually don't have to really do the
01:28:14
full a handwriting you just kind of do the gesture that you and the Machine have Co co-evolved to learn means a to
01:28:21
you oh wow so the machine starts to learn me after a while and more fine- tuned to my own inputs everyone's
01:28:27
computer is a little bit more fine- tuned towards them which is true about Computing in general that's yeah really interesting stuff we
01:28:34
have to solve these problems that frankly our industry hasn't had to solve in a while because ever since you know kind of Xerox Park and Stanford Research
01:28:40
Institute gave us the keyboard and mouse yeah we've had these like direct manipulation interfaces y it's true that
01:28:45
we replaced um the mouse with touch screens but like it's still very direct manipulation and you're just not going
01:28:51
to have those things walking around with your AR glasses so so what are we going to do and this is I think uh the
01:28:56
beginnings of a gesture-based kind of language that you're going to have to interact with machines so I guess the
01:29:02
big question is do you actually foresee this as a next compute platform after
01:29:08
the smartphone or does this sort of because there is a compute Puck separately as of right now there's still a ton of interplay between these and
01:29:15
something I'm carrying do you think there is a future where we aren't carrying anything we're wearing our full-time like daily computer yeah I
01:29:23
mean I don't put words in your mouth I think this is a device that I when I put it on a few months ago and the software was running I it was the first time I've
01:29:30
been able to imagine not having a cell phone like oh like this actually it does the things that I need to get done and
01:29:36
it does them pretty well um I want to be clear like sometimes Technologies replace the Technologies more often um
01:29:42
they find new avenues like I still use a laptop and I still use a cell phone yeah and like I use them both together it's
01:29:48
not a problem yeah um and so I think there there's a for the foreseeable future even when these things exist
01:29:54
they're probably going to exist in conjunction with cell phon CU there the tech has a long way to go still like it's a 2our battery life it's a it's a
01:30:02
expensive piece of Hardware there's a lot between now and that as like a real future people can imagine that's right
01:30:07
but if you extrapolate far ahead enough with the lines of sight you have in a lot of these Technologies it feels real
01:30:14
maybe I I think that's right and I think to really put a thought in your head looking far into the future imagine a
01:30:19
world where you have a universal interface with this neural interface and you have a universal kind of display
01:30:26
with your glasses on now how do you design everything differently cars homes
01:30:31
um so you're home like the famous problem everyone's home like every microwave is completely inscrutable no
01:30:37
one knows how to work any other microwave like the systems are all different shower controls like everything all terrible why would you
01:30:43
need that if you had well shower let's probably for now let's let's keep using those controls conventionally but but
01:30:48
for the for microwave for the kitchen at least yeah you don't need everything to have a clock and a display you a
01:30:54
permanent display you don't need to have a bunch of buttons on it you have a permanent ability to manipulate things yeah um and so I think it starts to get
01:31:01
to the point where it doesn't just have an impact on whether we're carrying a cell phone or not it starts to have an impact on how other physical goods are
01:31:07
designed and built H not to mention obviating the need for some physical Goods entirely if we all had our glasses
01:31:14
on do I need to dedicate an entire wall of my house to a big TV TV yeah that's fair yeah this is the far out like
01:31:20
future stuff that I start to picture when you see how far these prototypes have come and you try to continue fast
01:31:25
forwarding and see how how good it can actually get um well I'm going to be thinking a lot about this this is this
01:31:31
is one of the most interesting pieces of tech in that realm that I've seen even though I can't buy it and use it and
01:31:36
probably won't be able to use it for a while really cool stuff thanks man so thanks for for walking me through it thanks for having me appreciate the time
01:31:43
cheers welcome back that was a great interview wasn't wasn't it you uh probably didn't know this but Andrew and
01:31:49
I were like three feet away that whole time just couldn't see us cuz that's how cameras work
01:31:54
um but yeah thank you boss for coming on the show and doing a fun little interview with us thank you United
01:32:01
Airlines for flying us California and back and uh now thank you to my mother for 26 years ago thank you mom for uh
01:32:08
believing me when I was like I work at a YouTube channel now my mom does not know what that means
01:32:15
so thank you for letting me do it anyway
01:32:22
anyway right on trivia dude dude okay quick update on the scores Marquez with
01:32:29
20 Andrew leading a pack 23 David carrying the one
01:32:36
22 I guess in that case Andrew's carrying the one yeah anyway question
01:32:41
one what was the previous version of Apple's Magic Mouse
01:32:48
[Music] called and I guess like it's not really the previous version it was just the
01:32:54
mouse before but like I don't know how else to phrase that but the one before the Magic Mouse what was that
01:33:02
called I'm either right or embarrassingly wrong I really hope you're right because the name is
01:33:09
hilarious it's hilarious then I'm wrong and flip and read what do you got the
01:33:15
Apple track Mouse track Mouse no e i WR the Mighty Mouse The Mighty Mouse
01:33:21
correct oh is it right Mouse Mighty Mouse that's also the name of like a character right okay Mighty Mouse all
01:33:28
right that Mouse is Awesome by the way yes correct the apple one yeah yeah oh I was talking about the cartoon no that
01:33:35
mouse was awesome it was not awesome I thought it was clear it was oh yeah was there was a there was a clear one
01:33:41
definit was a clear one I did like this mouse I loved just Sid scrolling on a timeline which now that's that's like
01:33:47
when Marquez likes his MX Master although he uses his trackpad he doesn't even do that but MX Master okay my bonus
01:33:54
question what is bosa's real name what uh uh Bosley the the the hair
01:34:02
loss medication uh oh his name is Boston
01:34:08
correct the bands no boss
01:34:13
hos I wish I know this because when Marquez said we were talking to him I was like isn't there also a jaw or a was
01:34:21
yeah there are both and there are both of them and there's also BOS so I had to look up the name correct flip him and read what do you got Andrew
01:34:28
Bosworth Andrew Bosworth why did you guys what correct how yeah but one
01:34:33
spelled it correctly how did you know that why did you know that I don't I didn't know that did you guys both look
01:34:39
it up no just no executive names I looked it up like a norm when we went to meta Evan spegel Eric Schmidt Andrew
01:34:48
Bosworth do you know all of the seite executives at every major tech company yes cool they're all named Billy Ellis
01:34:56
next question question number two the original Macintosh had one design element utility feature that I think it
01:35:04
was kind of iconic for and also was repeated on the iMac G3 what am I
01:35:10
talking about can we please have a hint of some kind if I'm
01:35:15
right he gave a hint before I did give a hint before do you want another H andw yes
01:35:22
please it's on Apple device no it's only on these two as far as I'm aware are they not devices it's on one
01:35:29
other product that I know of what you want another hint it's a thing you can
01:35:35
hold I drew it flip him and read what do you got oh David what did
01:35:44
you what is that is that a tongue this is a handle no it was a keyboard yeah um I
01:35:52
don't know if this is right is it a it is a handle when you said it has a handle Ellis went it has a handle no and
01:36:00
then I looked dead into that camera and said who would ever put a handle on a
01:36:05
computer how did I not pick up on that yeah yeah I book G3 also had a handle
01:36:11
and uh and that is the one other thing that he now knows that has a handle and the original MacIntosh and I don't know
01:36:16
the specifics on this but I'm pretty sure it was it was actually sort of a design fight in the original Apple uh in
01:36:22
the with the original Mac and whether or not to put a handle on it cuz this computer's not light it's not portable
01:36:28
it doesn't have a battery ostensibly you would never take it from place to place
01:36:33
um but it was just really important in the design language to make it feel like a real tool like something that that
01:36:40
could be used in that way if you needed to yeah have you seen HT and Catch Fire the show I have
01:36:47
not handles and computers are very important part of that show just saying
01:36:52
spoiler um no not really but you should watch it it's very good it's one of my all-time favorite TV shows okay what is
01:36:59
it called Halt and Catch Fire it's about the 80s computer Revolution it has leap Pace in it h it's very good Four Seasons
01:37:07
each season gets better extremely good anyway thank you for listening to this episode of the waveform podcast it has
01:37:14
been a blast I always love when I get to sit at the big boy table with you guys I'm about to get kicked back into my
01:37:20
little crevice where I'm forced to produce this show from but but until then thank you for listening
01:37:27
make sure to like And subscribe follow us on Apple podcast and Spotify subscribe to us on YouTube pocketcast
01:37:36
pocketcast ex it's I've heard it's good I love it I use it it's fine it's fine
01:37:41
listen to us in your Tesla waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven we are part of the VOX media podcast
01:37:49
Network group and our intro outro music is produced by
01:37:58
vain so we go go
01:38:03
[Music]
