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[Music] all right what's going on everybody welcome back to the waveform podcast we're your hosts i'm marquez and i'm andrew and that's
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not andrew actually surprise wow for the audio only listeners david just ripped his face off i ripped andrew's face we ripped andrew's face off welcome
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david mel to waveform episode 70. so uh shout out to andrew he's out in the mountains right now going on fun hikes climbing big rocks i'm sure having a good time but uh we
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still have plenty of tech to talk about and figured we'd put it all in one place here um our last
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episode was episode 69 nice there it is and uh we took some time to do a fun little like game show type thing that we built so it's a sort of a tech trivia show you can play along
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it's about like tech and videos from the first half of the year it's it's a little more visual heavy for maybe for that one go to the youtube channel for
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it but we're back with a bunch of tech to talk about i kind of want to start with windows 11
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because you said are you running windows 11 not on this computer this is actually andrew's computer i left my surface book at home sadly um
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but i am running windows 11 on my surface book so it was just unveiled last week and now there's a build available for the
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public to actually download and try i made a reaction video just like talking about my couple major
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thoughts on the new changes it's very glassy and shiny and transparent overall the start menu centered now that you've used it for a little bit maybe a day or two have you found some things like super
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easy to get over or like really jarring or have you gotten used to all of it how's it going a couple different things i found that one it sort of feels
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like microsoft is trying to simplify everything with the ui they're trying to make it from what i've gathered it feels like
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they're they're moving the ui elements more towards feeling like a phone which is pretty funny but it kind of
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makes sense uh especially for the generations that are growing up right now if they want to
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onboard all of these like kids yeah that have been using phones since they were born yeah there's the there's the big pullover thing from the side which is where all these widgets and ai
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news feeds live is that part of what you're talking about it's that and then everything's bigger and bubblier
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um so for example in regular windows 10 yeah if you like click down on like there's all these icons in the bottom right with like battery management you can switch power modes and all these things
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now you click and there's just like one set of quick settings that comes up okay and
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they're they're all pretty big icons they're individual and you can swap them out it's almost like the quick settings menu on your phone
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yeah and you can edit what's there and they're big and then all the menus just look completely different they're
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more simplified uh they're definitely more aesthetically pleasing okay and so i think it's definitely
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something windows needed to do because they're kind of known for being very um what's the word i guess like
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focused on information heaviness and less on just ui and aesthetics yeah and it just needs
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to it just they needed simplification for people to be able to like know how to use it right i also found weirdly that big sur
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also had a lot of elements that looked like they belonged maybe not on a phone but at least on a touch
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screen yeah like big touch targets sliders things that are like way bigger than they used to be
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yeah felt less like a computer and i wonder if that's kind of in the same vein they're like oh
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well there's gonna be young people who are used to ipads we'll make it look kind of like an ipad or are there future things in mind i don't really know
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um centered start menu good bad totally okay i haven't gotten used to it yet personally uh i keep going to the
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left you can move it right so you can move to the left if you want i'm trying to get used to it before i move it
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yeah um it's a little bit weird i do like that the icons come up from the center it
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feels more like it's being you know birthed from the center that's maybe a weird term but like yeah
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everything like comes out of the center instead of having to like look around your screen it was a it was a big focus of the event
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of like this whole centered theme yeah it's like it's gonna it's not only the center of the screen but like it's
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the center of your life and it's the center of your environment and windows is now the center of this
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like ecosystem yeah i feel at home oh man we should have had panos on that windows 10
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home yeah no it's it it makes sense to me anytime i go to windows i just hit the windows button on the keyboard so it
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would just be an aesthetic change for me instead of mousing to the corner i would just hit the button and be like oh it's in the middle
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but yeah you know it's a small thing to get used to for the last like year or two they've been updating their
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icons to yeah basically get ready for this and their new icon design i think is really good it's very specific very like you don't really get it confused with any other
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icons yeah i like it yeah me too i like it this the new store icon but also speaking of the store uh that
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was one of the biggest most interesting parts of their announcement yeah and i we should talk about it for a second so
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you can now this is the headline you can now run android apps on windows 11. oh cool great i don't
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know if i'm gonna do that but like okay you know makes sense lots of people who are used to a certain number of apps they want to bring them
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everywhere they go they can now use them on their windows pc neat um the the subtext to that headline
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is inside of the windows store the way this is going to work is microsoft has partnered with amazon
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and amazon's android app app store which is not the same as the play store it's a
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it's a big overlap but it's an amazon app store will surface results inside of microsoft store yep
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so you have to want to search in the windows store in the microsoft store for apps and then when you do step one yeah when
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you do you'll find some android apps in there let's say you want to install one if you do you'll have to be signed into
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your amazon account and you'll have to have the amazon app store app on your pc yeah so once
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that is all done then you can download apps that were built for arm chips and android and touch screens
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and put them on your pc uh do you care at all about this this is going to try it i'm not saying there's
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so many thoughts about this i i tweeted about this because i was really like this feels so
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hacky and convoluted and it kind of goes back to we use computers differently than we use
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phones right when you have a phone you're used to going to the app store downloading an app like
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you don't side loading apps you can do on android but you only would really do it if like
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you're either trying to get it for free or you'd normally have to pay for it um not this is not legal advice yeah
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um i shouldn't actually do that but yeah um or if you it was like taken off of the
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play store or something and you wanted to get it yeah um that's pretty much the only i do that all the time stands yeah
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yeah so the whereas on my computer yeah side loading on a computer is basically the default like you download apps from websites
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yeah it's a different interesting behavior i'm trying to think of all the apps that i typically install like when i set up a new computer
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whether it's a mac or a windows machine i don't really go to the actual store very much now on a
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mac i do a little bit more yeah there's a little bit better curation and i get slack and my to-do list and you
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know final cut and tweetbot all from the store but when i'm setting up a windows machine i'm going to the browser for
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pretty much everything every first slack for that app for spotify for that app for you know my to-do list for the app
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all these are things that i'm downloading from the web and i don't really go to the microsoft windows store
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so is this an effort i guess for them to like make you more comfortable with the store get you
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using the store more even though they don't want it to take over the whole experience 100 i think so because like like i said before um you know we're so used to like
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just going to an app store on our phones whereas on our computers and you said like yeah you maybe will download some apps
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off of the mac app store you still can download most apps from the website right you still can yeah and even on android uh way back in the day when you go to
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amazon.com it would be like hey we have a free app of the week on the amazon app store you should
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sideload the and like they encouraged you to sideload another app store on your phone
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which now seems like weird you would think google would get really mad about that um that might be an antitrust thing i'm
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not sure but like the fact that you had to side load the amazon app store onto your android phone in the past and they would kind of just like copy as many apps from the play store as
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they could onto the amazon app store yeah and now you have to do that on your computer
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it just feels so hacky one and then two i really dislike that you need to have now a microsoft account and an amazon account to be able to run
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android apps like like it's more of a it's more about principle like we all have both accounts yes and it's fine yeah but like
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the same way you needed a facebook account to use an oculus rift yeah i don't want both exactly
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okay and and then the other thing is that um we've tried you know running mobile apps on on
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screens that were not made for mobile apps chrome os supports android apps i like that for some reasons because i
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never use them yet the only thing i really use that for was being able to upload photos
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to instagram from my laptop which you can actually do in chrome if you emulate a
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tablet a mobile device yeah okay but if you like edit on your pc then you want to just upload yeah there are some like edge cases
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but but at the same time like the experience of using a mobile app on anything but a mobile device is really
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bad yeah yeah it's not great like he showed tick-tock on the screen and they just showed tik-tok open but i
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was like go ahead try to scroll yeah you don't have a touch screen go ahead and you're on the mouse like you know it's like not
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an ideal experience yeah all these apps are built for finger input so trying to replicate that
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with the touch pad on various windows laptops will be various different experiences so it is what it is but i did see you i
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think it was confirmed you'll be able to sideload android apps i think straight up apk is
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right into windows 11 which is pretty cool which is nice so if i find like a dark sky clone
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somewhere on the dark web i can install the apk yeah uh but that is that is the state of yeah the
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new store on windows 11. i just i don't know what android apps that you would want to run on a
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computer that you couldn't there isn't a better alternative that you can just download from a website
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you know and like i definitely think that this is a move for microsoft to get more people
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comfortable with the windows store because they can take more revenue if you buy games directly off of the windows store
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than if you you know buy it on steam they don't get revenue from that yes although they they did make a pretty
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big point in their presentation about like the choice developers have now where you can go through microsoft and i
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think they take a 15 cut so or you can use your own payment system and they don't take a cut at all
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right and they set it on stage yeah because now that everybody knows apple's taking a 30 cut that's sort of a big deal
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yeah so yeah just making developers comfortable making users comfortable checking out how great this windows store is
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it is really it is really interesting because like i want to immediately dismiss the idea that people will ever
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use the windows store at all ever because i have never used it at all ever and i
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don't plan to but that said like i said with like pre like newer generations being more
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used to at the idea of app stores yeah if they come onto windows devices and there is an app store maybe
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they'll default to that versus the side loading of downloading something from a website yeah and it'll have all the apps they already
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know yeah and the other thing is that like windows 11 is very geared towards like they made a big deal of it being
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very touch screen friendly right and this concerned me a little bit because uh if we remember windows 8 it
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was overtly touch screen friendly so much so that desktop users got really put to the it was built for touch
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screen it was built for touchdown tiles and everything yeah they made a big deal of this also being more built for touch screens
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i think it's a better kind of like uh balance because they just made the touch targets bigger and like the ui doesn't actually really change when you switch to touchscreen
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mode but it is easier to use so it's a good balance i'm just a little bit worried that they're going to like fall back into that cycle of like bad windows good winners bad windows good
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ones so i i agree i think they're they did make a nicer balance i think i hope they've learned their lesson
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like if we went to windows 8 and then they got right to 8.1 like they made the changes they had to yeah so i feel like yeah we have bigger
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touch targets but it does still look like windows as far as i can tell and i'm sure we'll find out more as this comes
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out eventually by the end of the year i guess but uh yeah i think that the last bit about windows 11 i want to talk about was the
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the confusion about what computers can actually update to windows 11 because there's a certain chip now it was a mess
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i guess can we break it down as simply as possible there's a chip yeah that is in most modern pcs that
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is required to run windows 11 yeah and if you i think a lot of people just don't know if they have the chip or not or they've realized that their like three-year-old laptop doesn't have the chip or it isn't
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enabled and you have to go into the bios and enable it and then it'll work yeah um i think a compatibility checker
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that handles all this stuff would be great if it just had blanket they have they have it okay
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it was broken for the first about week right so so it's like the this chip is called
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a tpm chip it's a security module chip that is supposed to handle like lower level security stuff microsoft
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said you needed a tpm 2.0 chip which only came out like three years ago uh and actually in the system requirements it said 2.0 but it's not actually required 1.2
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is required which came out a long time ago okay almost every computer has a 1.2 chip um the problem is the compatibility checker was like no it was broken for multiple
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reasons like for one reason it was saying you need a two when you actually only need a 1.2 and then the other thing was the bios
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thing whereas like i think they're like you would you would think that maybe everyone that wants to get on the
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insider build or like the like beta build of windows 11 would know how to do stuff with their bios i don't think
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that's the case this is not the case there's a difference between beta testers and people that are like willing
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to like get really into the wheels the bios and everything yeah which is it's a scary thing to do
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yes you can really mess up your computer yeah so all right well i hope i hope it gets simplified in the future i'm
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looking forward to more testing of windows 11 yeah segway time speaking of uh 11 wow i i don't know you're gonna
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but well the xperia one mark three has nothing to do with eleven well it has a one and it has a one in
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there three ones it doesn't have a two one so the name is two elevens but then one of the it gets it left anyway it
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walked away okay the review of the sony experiment iii is now live on the channel
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and i wanted to shout that out because this i'm gonna hold it up right now this has got to be the most oddly put
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together set of flagship parts i've ever seen yeah it it is it becomes uber enthusiast it's like a really good phone yeah i really enjoyed using this phone except for the one weird auto
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rotate bug um but i just want to just go over from the top to the bottom every weird decision they've made about this file yeah sure and why it just seems like it's it's geared to be the lowest selling
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best phone they've ever made okay number one the name it's the sony xperia one three okay yep that's just good luck explaining that it's you can say mark three yeah you can
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say it's the the third one whatever you want to say it's not a great name yeah um but there it is sony xperia one
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mark three two this phone was announced in april and it's been under embargo for a while since then
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i've had this phone for about a month yeah i got the phone and typically this is what happens we get a phone for review and it's like all right
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well when does it actually get like unveiled when is the embargo up it'll be in a week or so and we'll have that
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amount of time to play with the phone sometimes it's two weeks nice this one it was like five weeks
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we're like okay this is what happens is it gets announced it has some cool features and then slowly the hype
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drains and the attention span forgets yeah and then it quietly launches a month later no one buys it so yeah it
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is out now um yeah the screen the screen is the next one so this is a high-end phone it's got a snapdragon triple eight 12 gigs of ram android 11. but this screen is a
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21x9 4k oled at 120hz so it's a battery burner it definitely burns through battery but it's 4k all the time and you cannot change the
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resolution and that to me is kind of crazy you can change the refresh rate between 60 and 120. um would you even want a 4k phone or it's one of those things that like
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they have those compatibility not compatibility checkers but they have these grids online that you can look up that's like
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what resolution do you need for how far away you are from your device and it's usually for tvs and it's like
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you only need 4k if you're sitting up this close because then you'll start to see the pixels
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your phone is like six inches from your face yeah so so i think that's why apple did the whole retina display thing
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was because like look you're here um you know it's like at least you can toggle the 4k mode on in youtube and know that it's giving you all the pixels okay yeah um but it
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it just feels like something they felt like they needed to do because they have the bravia line of tvs
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i would be fine with it it's just you can't turn it down yeah like sony put a 1440p screen in a lot of
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their phones and at any point you can just switch it to 1080p mode and you'll save battery life you'll save power you're pushing less
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pixels performance will be better and you just know you have the ability to do that at any time if you want 1440 turn it back up now you
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can watch the video at full res this phone is 4k yeah which would be a great option but you cannot turn it off yeah and i wonder if they'll add that with a software update or whatever but i mean
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it's a great looking screen but like you said if you're looking thinking about retina display um that's like 250 to 350 ppi is like
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pretty good yeah this is a 640 plus ppi that's insane like yeah yeah i got i mean i got to say like i do appreciate high density displays i remember when the lg g3 came out and it was like it was the forced 1440p
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phone and it just blew my mind and they had all of these demos built into the phone that would just be like 1440p video and
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you could show your friends and it was amazing um and i like 1440p phones i just find
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it hilarious because like samsung for example who like when the ultra came out everyone was like oh but i want to run you know 1440p at 120 hertz and they're
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like aha you can't do that you can run 1080p at 120 hertz or you can run 1440p at 60
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hertz and yet sony's just like you will run 4k 4k all the time at 120 hertz no choice
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oh my gosh and you're gonna like it too yeah uh yeah no this is a is a really interesting choice and we'll see if that ever changes but then also okay this phone also has a but it's a nice design it's matte black
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it's kind of like soft touch it's pretty squared off but it's got a ton of like these niche features that you just don't see combined to phones
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nowadays yeah one headphone jack yeah wow they added that in the two by the way in the xperia one one
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they didn't have it 11 windows 11. um and the experiment they didn't have it which was like
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you know sony this is your chance yeah exactly so they added it back yes it's still here yeah uh there's this really nice haptic motor
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and this like sync where it'll like sync to the beat of your music and vibrate the music
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which is yeah xperia xz2 they added that and it's kind of ridiculous but whatever
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it works yeah it's a powerful motor i dislike when there's like a weak vibration motor and you're like yes calls because of it yeah
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tool-less sim card tray sony's always had this and it's so underrated for tech reviewers so
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happy like i know people generally don't care but it's so nice and especially because they also have dual sim and a micro sd
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card slot micro sd card expansion yes so you can add up to a terabyte of storage via micro sd
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that's a dying breed how many dying breed things we have in here there's a led notification light on this phone
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yeah you really don't see that very well i remember when i had to like run cyan engine mod on my galaxy
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nexus 6 to be able to enable the the led notification oh yeah because it had one but it didn't
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talk to any apps yeah yeah yeah that was a weird time that was weird like they were going to use it and then they scrapped it but you could like get it
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back if you ran your own custom wrong yeah and then it would glow like green for text and yellow for twitter and like
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yeah first whatever like that's that was cool um this phone's got custom buttons okay so
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all the way on the right hand side power button and fingerprint reader volume rocker up here which is nice
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custom single button down here just for google assistant yes very nice give me that very nice i kind
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of wish there was a software toggle to continually make that whatever i want but yeah i would have made it assistant anyway so cool
00:21:51
yeah and then a separate camera toggle yeah with a half press for focus and a full
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press to launch or take photos and videos that is all like very unusual to find in any other
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phone out there right now yeah but i think the camera is where it gets the weirdest yeah
00:22:09
so we've got triple cameras on the back uh a regular an ultra wide and a telephoto yep but the telephoto
00:22:16
has two different focal lengths and this was a we were trying to figure out how they did this or you know what exactly is happening
00:22:22
inside the phone there are some sony videos on their youtube channel where you can see it's it's a periscope type lens so it's
00:22:29
sideways inside the phone but there are glass elements moving inside the phone so it'll snap between 70 millimeters and 105
00:22:37
millimeters yeah in practice it's not actually that big of a difference in zoom that's like a 1.3 x
00:22:45
or whatever you want to call it but it was just fascinating that it would actually do that and they
00:22:50
actually spent the time to engineer such a unique solution inside the phone yeah um do you think this has a future
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do you think this could be built by other companies do you think they'll keep doing this yeah i could i could see it as being
00:23:04
a thing for sure i think optical telephoto lenses are very important because like software
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is fine when you have really high resolution sensors and we do have really high resolution sensors but again
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you have all of these problems with higher resolution sensors in smartphones because like sure but they're not big enough and
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then when you do make them big you have a very small plane of focus yep what sony was trying to do with
00:23:29
with this and they started this in xperia one two i believe was like they want to have the holy trinity of lenses
00:23:36
which is a 16 to 24 a 24 to 70 and a 70 to 200. okay and so the idea is that there's a
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16 there's a 24 and then in the mark ii there was a 70 and you could zoom you could do software crop between them yeah this one i think they're just trying to give you as much
00:23:55
optical capability as possible i love it yeah i think it's a great idea but i get
00:24:01
a little nervous about this for two reasons one um i don't so i was i talked about this in the review video but what samsung did with dual aperture yeah where they they had a
00:24:13
really good idea they were like okay we would like to be able to close down aperture because you can get more in focus you can take sharper photos
00:24:20
there's all sorts of useful applications of it and in the galaxy s9 they had either a wide
00:24:25
open or stop down i forgot what the f-stop was yeah but like 4.4 or something yeah versus like 1.8 or
00:24:30
whatever wide open and you could see it like snap close snap open and they they built that under the phone and i
00:24:35
was like that is super cool literally a variable aperture in our main smartphone camera yeah and
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the next year was gone yep and they never did it again and really usually you really could have
00:24:46
used it because there's phones like the s21 that have the ultra shallow depth of field where if you
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could just stop down to f4 like every photo in daylight would look better so the fact that they never brought it back despite being super useful it makes me nervous that this might never show up in another phone again yeah it's just a
00:25:03
gimmick nobody's gonna buy the phone sony's gonna realize all the r d money was for nothing and then it's gone
00:25:08
yeah so i'm nervous about that it might happen it might not um but the other thing is like it's it's
00:25:14
not that great of a camera set yeah it's a you know sony's made like great improvements with their software
00:25:20
and obviously sony makes alpha cameras and they've made really good cameras in the past and so this is really good fast
00:25:27
focus and really cool having a dedicated shutter button and all the advanced modes and everything 20 fps
00:25:32
burst mode it's great i never miss a shot there's like no shutter lag but then the shot i get is like
00:25:37
yeah a little too shallow a little bit muted so it is what it is the phone itself
00:25:43
though uh very nice i'll show this on the podcast even though i did it already on the video uh world's slowest auto
00:25:50
rotate i've never seen anything like this in any other phone ready wow it takes a good four seconds yeah it's a we actually timed it
00:26:02
yesterday on average it was almost three and then one time it took seven yeah and
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as a person i know not everybody some people just lock auto rotate and never use and don't care but as a person who
00:26:13
does rotate stuff all the time i watch a lot of videos it got very annoying yeah something to
00:26:19
keep an eye on maybe they'll fix that with software but sony xperia one mark iii hundred bucks if you can get over that
00:26:25
then you'll have the world's maybe not the world's first variable aperture or variable zoom but
00:26:31
yeah a couple really impressive things 4k screen and a nice smooth android experience yeah yeah they're good their ui is
00:26:37
really good i think i think we were talking about this yesterday it's like i think the s like the s21 ultra 1200
00:26:42
dollars is a best a better overall package for people who care about the things that most people
00:26:47
care about yeah but if you're like a hardcore just like i want the best everything yeah then like these are
00:26:54
really good phones yeah i would say i would argue the s21 ultra for the same price will give you all better cameras yeah they would give
00:27:01
you a better screen despite not being 4k because it's bigger much brighter yeah they would give you better software
00:27:08
they would give you better battery life they would give you faster charging and they'd probably give you more software updates but if you care about
00:27:14
the things that sony does yeah you care about the dual stereo front-facing speakers yeah which is the expandable storage that samsung doesn't
00:27:21
have the headphone jack the led notification light like all these crazy enthusiast things it's your boy i always used to say the
00:27:27
xperia ones are the r slash android phone yeah that's what's gonna happen we haven't uploaded the video yet as of the
00:27:33
recording of this now but this is this is where i expect people to care about this phone cool
00:27:38
so did you see the boss dynamics new video on their youtube channel it did i love these videos yeah i gotta say and it gets a mixed reaction in the studio i have it here in the notes that
00:27:51
i think adam wrote this is how the world ends i i'm not so down on these i'm kind of
00:27:56
into the idea of like robots being able to do all sorts of crazy things so i'm just going to describe the video
00:28:02
real quick for those who are listening uh picture spot the boston dynamics robot that we've done a video with with a
00:28:10
about a three foot goose neck robot attachment that that yeah the neck attachment one
00:28:16
is the one that freaks me out the most yeah it's kind of it looks like it's a it's like a face on top of the robot on a neck and then picture like seven of
00:28:24
them all doing a choreograph dance extremely precisely i might add with like obviously very robotic movements but also like a pretty good amount of rhythm yeah so yeah good for them this is like
00:28:36
i tweeted about this i was like this is a this is a whole job yeah like it's somebody's job at boston dynamics
00:28:42
to choreograph a dance they they get probably free access to like i'm gonna need seven robots this week and
00:28:49
a bluetooth speaker and i'm gonna make something happen yeah and then they get to do it what were your thoughts watching the
00:28:54
video when we first saw it i always they're they're fun they're definitely very fun yeah um i
00:29:00
think they're equally equally scary come on i i look if you've seen black mirror
00:29:08
okay like there's an episode and they've referenced this before where they have robotic dogs who are
00:29:14
chasing down people in like a post-apocalyptic world and i i think the stuff that these
00:29:20
robots can do is insane and like they have the humanoid ones too that dance and they're it's they can do freaking like backflips
00:29:27
the humanoid ones are a little creepy yeah a little bit they're very robocop so here's why i'm not creeped out really by them
00:29:32
uh-huh is because i know that they are all programmed to do exactly what they're
00:29:38
doing like when we go in to do a robot shot with mia like obviously mia doesn't look like it doesn't have these
00:29:44
anthropomorphic features like it doesn't have arms and legs like like spot the dog or like the upright one wherever
00:29:50
whatever it's called atlas or atlas yeah um so it's mia so it just sits there holding a camera but it only does
00:29:58
exactly to the t what we just told it to do and only does it when we tell it to do it right
00:30:03
yes so even though it looks anthropomorphic like a dog with a neck dancing in front of me in
00:30:09
synchronization it would be very creepy if they decided to do that by themselves yeah but i know watching that that a
00:30:16
very skilled programmer is responsible for starting all the moves at the same time and building the moves so that it
00:30:22
looks like they're doing it in sync that's the most impressive part to me is someone had to decide like
00:30:27
on beat like how i'm gonna make this robot move to make it look like it's dancing so i see that i'm like wow good for the program like
00:30:33
that's awesome what i said in slack is will you be saying the same thing when it's dancing on your grave i do
00:30:40
i just don't i i see the move and i'm like wow that's very cool but there's there's no way it
00:30:47
does things it's not programmed to do and like that was a really funny michael reeves video we've talked about before
00:30:52
where he like programmed it to like find a bucket and pee in it because it had like you know all these
00:30:59
sensors he put attached to it like that's funny but yeah it only does what you're what it's probably yeah i mean i think like
00:31:04
the the i the dancing is fine right the dancing is great and i think that because they're so precise like michael
00:31:10
even said like this is cg right because their precision and their timing with each other is so
00:31:17
exact that it almost feels fake because human movement is so not perfect yeah if you've ever seen like synchronized uh swimmers or synchronized dancing or whatever there's always just a tiny
00:31:29
little bit of yeah like and your subconscious will notice that yeah i wonder if they'd programmed a slight delay
00:31:36
or a slight variance if that would have been more realistic looking i don't know if they want the realism though it's like it's
00:31:42
like when spot is in his like default mode and he's doing the thing with his legs where he's just going back and forth
00:31:47
it like doesn't feel right it's really precise it's so precise yeah yeah i don't know i i i enjoy it
00:31:54
and like i i think these are great demos of like keeping yeah it keeps them in the news
00:32:00
it's good pr and it's just it's just more friendly things that the robot can clearly do
00:32:06
i think one of the things we were wondering about is like does does boston dynamics have the
00:32:12
biggest delta between how good their image can be and how bad their image could be
00:32:18
probably because because you know once in a while you get a weird headline of like here's the police using a robot dog
00:32:24
in new york city and you're like what i've seen this robot dance now it's like guarding like i don't like it i
00:32:29
don't like that like don't don't combine those things yeah so yeah i think they they keep themselves in a pretty good
00:32:34
eye yeah and it's it's clearly gets more capable every year like if you look if you scroll down on
00:32:40
their youtube channel look at their old videos yeah they probably those things like crap now they look
00:32:45
rough yeah in the past then no pun intended yeah yeah uh so i'm happy for them yeah no i
00:32:51
mean um and hyundai bought them now that's something i don't know if we talked about yet yeah that was the the
00:32:57
last weird part of this was uh it was a bbc and i was trying to figure out why on
00:33:03
earth they chose that um bts the the band the k-pop band collabs with a bunch of other korean tech companies all the time they collab with samsung all the time yeah all the time and so that was the connection is uh
00:33:15
hyundai's korean hyundai just bought boston all of the company you're a stake in it
00:33:22
them if not probably a majority stakeholder yeah which is kind of crazy because like they were owned by
00:33:28
google for a while and then softbank bought them from google and now softbank sold it to button to hyundai
00:33:35
so now they're obviously pretty tight with hyundai they have 80 percent okay yeah so yeah that's so hyundai's
00:33:42
like yeah we'll do a bts dance video with the robots that's that's the natural thing we do to
00:33:48
celebrate because we live in the future now yeah so it's beautiful yeah yeah uh i just okay just like don't put guns on the dogs and then we'll be okay
00:33:59
that's the only thing i think there's a department at boston dynamics in charge of making
00:34:04
sure no one does anything too crazy yeah sure yeah for now all right well now we have some we have
00:34:10
some patreon some creator economy news to talk about now i like to think i'm i'm pretty
00:34:16
plugged into the creator economy i've talked to a lot of fellow creators and obviously we we have internal dialogues and
00:34:22
discussions about this stuff all the time um but we have a note here that jack conti the ceo of patreon right
00:34:28
creator of patreon um did an interview with neil i on the decoder podcast i haven't
00:34:33
listened to it yet but you have but there are some notes about some things he brought up on the creator the creator economy and
00:34:39
stuff he talks about with uh the 30 apple tax yeah you want to break it down yeah so so if you've been following um the news
00:34:47
with especially with epic and apple uh basically apple will take 30 of any transaction
00:34:53
that is made uh through an app that is on their platform basically and they got mad at epic
00:35:00
because epic was trying to sell fortnite skins with like a workaround way so that apple
00:35:06
didn't get the 30 cut yep apple says well we're providing both the service the giant platform that
00:35:12
basically created the the entire app market and also we have all these like security and safety protocols involved to make sure that you're safe and you don't get
00:35:23
malware and we have to protect our users and that just kind of created this whole conversation on like
00:35:29
what do platforms like what are they owed you know google takes like 30 as well and so that kind of created this whole antitrust thing and now like we talked about earlier
00:35:41
microsoft made a point it was almost a digital with windows 11 on the windows store saying we're not going to take any money
00:35:48
if you have your own platform you know payment system yeah and now i feel and like facebook's doing the same thing like they just
00:35:53
released their own like newsletter service and they're doing a similar thing where like until you make a certain amount of money
00:35:59
it's gonna be you're gonna get all the revenue like so now it almost seems like people are competing for we're giving creators as much
00:36:07
possible um like revenue from what they're making as possible music to my ears yes yeah competition is
00:36:14
good competition is good that's actually a main point that jack was making um in the decoder podcast was neil i was
00:36:22
saying was talking about like this anti-trust stuff he's like what do you think about it and and jack was like well
00:36:28
you can kind of see like as more platforms compete with each other to give creators
00:36:34
more revenue because like creators are the content and content is king and when you are providing all of the content for a service like
00:36:44
you think about twitter if twitter navi users it wouldn't be a product yeah i think about this all the time
00:36:50
uh we use the word platform yeah and when i think of a physical platform a platform is
00:36:56
raised up above the wrist and so something being on that platform gives it a visibility
00:37:02
it wouldn't have if it wasn't on the platform and so if you think of something like twitter for example as a platform
00:37:08
it's like okay yes if i just want to share my thoughts about bacon whatever i could just write them and email them to a bunch of people and then hope they
00:37:19
share that and then you know it is what it is maybe only five people read it but if i
00:37:24
tweet it that platform could rise it to people searching for tweets about bacon or
00:37:29
people who follow my account or people who share things with other enthusiasts about bacon the point is the platform is benef
00:37:37
is a benefit to everyone on it yeah the other half of that is the platform is nothing without the
00:37:44
stuff on it yeah so if your twitter if no one tweets yeah it's not much about what is
00:37:49
what is your service exactly so you can build an amazing platform and discovery but you need
00:37:54
the content creators to actually complete the cycle and make this thing work so yeah youtube is
00:38:00
another huge example which is like totally if you want to make videos on the internet that people see there is
00:38:06
only really one place that you can guarantee the maximum number of people see it and that's youtube
00:38:12
and so youtube's in this phenomenal spot where it's like hey we are the reason people see your stuff
00:38:17
yeah but on the other hand creators of that content are the only reason youtube got to where it is today
00:38:23
yeah so i think about that dynamic a lot and i'm curious if you know how patreon sort of fits in as a puzzle piece of
00:38:29
that yeah i think the dynamic has shifted a lot uh first of all because this idea of
00:38:34
like creator economy didn't really used to be a thing this idea that like everyone is a creator everyone is unique
00:38:40
everyone is kind of a product the words have been said a lot in the last year or two yeah it's blown up a lot because i think in
00:38:47
the past these services saw themselves as like hey we're a product you're going to use
00:38:52
our product and like the creators or the ind or people that have twitter accounts are just using the product but there there wasn't
00:38:59
this mindset shift of like oh the people on your platform are making the platform make you money
00:39:06
right and so now because more people are become are coming online more people are
00:39:11
becoming more creative and like trying to market themselves as creatives and drawing more people to the
00:39:17
platform more creatives are kind of like demanding not demanding necessarily but like
00:39:24
needing more revenue from the things that they are helping the service they are helping lift up right yeah
00:39:30
like you said if youtube didn't have like these big channels then they wouldn't really be a platform
00:39:35
but anyway the whole patreon thing really interesting because patreon's been around for a very long time yep
00:39:40
um jack conti was very early to this and i've listened to like every interview that he's ever done i've listened i've
00:39:46
like watched all his videos and he's been like beating this drum forever that like eventually we're gonna
00:39:53
get to this point where everyone can make a living doing what they love because of scale because when you have
00:40:00
the internet and you have like a thousand people that like love what you do if they will give you a dollar a week
00:40:06
which is very little for them like we have this idea of like subscription service and like
00:40:12
over saturation slash anxiety with youtube premium and like hbo max and like sure uh but we're kind of tailoring our lives now to everything being a subscription
00:40:22
service the cool thing though about are we doing that on purpose or is that just the way the world is i think it's just the way the world's shifting i
00:40:29
think there are benefits to it it's like if you subscribe to a cable subscription before but you only watch two channels
00:40:35
yeah why are you paying 30 when you can pay two dollars right you know so it's like so you're sort of you're we're breaking
00:40:40
down like more individualized subscriptions instead of just like you know instead of icloud plus or whatever it's called with
00:40:46
10 different services i'm going to pay for just the two or three things i need right and i'm overall going to benefit more from
00:40:52
penguins right right okay but now if you're like a super fan of something right and you like you want you just
00:40:57
want to absorb and eat up everything that that creator is making whether it's music whether it's videos whether it's
00:41:04
you know podcasts like anything you're able to throw a dollar five dollars at somebody
00:41:11
so you allow a lot yourself like a 300 budget for like subscription entertainment and it
00:41:18
because of scale because the internet is so massive and you can allot so many fans so quickly as a creator
00:41:25
even if only a thousand people you have a thousand core audience members which is fairly easy to get now right like
00:41:32
in the past that was very difficult now it's pretty easy to get a thousand people to give you one dollar like a month or a week
00:41:38
interesting yeah you can like make your living you can exist as a human because everyone is
00:41:43
trading money around in micro doses right i think that yeah the the fact that we
00:41:48
see so many more subscriptions out there now is probably a big reason for this like i think jack probably
00:41:53
seemed pretty early because back then it was like if i pay 10 a month for netflix
00:42:00
why would i give any one person five dollars right what how could they possibly create that much value for that one netflix is ten dollars a month right but now there's so many different things that we
00:42:11
pay a subscription fee for not just cable but like i pay for youtube tv i also pay for youtube premium i also
00:42:18
pay for spotify that's like nine ten dollars a month i also pay for this and that and there's als there's
00:42:24
like all these different subscriptions that i think deliver their value basically per month
00:42:29
and a lot of those may be creators whose youtube channels i've subscribed to and have joined the the club on
00:42:35
yeah like i paid them a couple bucks a month yeah and that's because i'm not just supporting them but i'm getting more out of it
00:42:40
and so now there are so many subscriptions happening that it's a more natural reaction to be
00:42:46
totally willing to pay one to five dollars a month to an individual because we're just doing that all the time now yeah so yeah that 300 bucks a month budget probably seemed a little high back in the day
00:42:58
today probably seems pretty real because if you break it down like in the past like a lot of that was going towards your
00:43:04
cable bill and you only use two of those channels and if you can break down everything into just like
00:43:10
micro payments you're gonna still be paying a similar amount of money but it's just more tailored to you there's a more personal like i am
00:43:17
helping this creator make a living like it feels very personal it's a connection there there's a connection
00:43:22
there um and and also i think people are starting to realize like coffee costs five dollars and i get that
00:43:28
every day you know and it's like true what what is the value of one cup of like just not getting a coffee one day
00:43:35
and then i can pay five creators yeah it's so funny it's like pretty dope when you like compare the value of things like if i pay 10 a month for netflix and i
00:43:42
pay how much if you if you buy a five dollar coffee twice a week every month that's
00:43:47
40 that's that's a lot more than that oh yeah what am i getting out of this coffee exactly so yeah maybe netflix seems
00:43:54
underpriced now instead of overpriced yeah the point is yeah we the creator economy thing i think
00:43:59
you know i've i don't really talk about it that much but i feel like the the scale of things the way they've ballooned over time makes things like youtube feel more like
00:44:10
a fabric that we exist in rather than like a structure of a platform where now uh yeah anyone who shares something that they love or something that they make can
00:44:22
accumulate enough people who will just be within this fabric and drawn to that thing yeah that they can eventually make that
00:44:30
what they do yeah that's it like before like tv super structured to me like there are
00:44:36
channels and there are shows and there are ad slots that support the channels and the shows and
00:44:41
everything is very much like what's on amazon it's built a certain way yeah and if you want to be a tv news anchor and that's
00:44:49
what you want to do then there's a path you follow and then if you land here at this company then
00:44:55
you can you can be part of this structure exactly where on youtube it's like i don't really have
00:45:01
to pick a channel or pick a news network i can just do what i want to do yeah and this fabric will sort of find you
00:45:07
instead of being siloed into these things so we're all kind of connected in that way um just reachability too like remember
00:45:13
when gangnam style hit it was the first billion dollar view video billion views yep sorry not billion dollars first video
00:45:21
with a billion views and it was fast too it was like a month or two and but but the when that happened all the headlines
00:45:28
were like oh my gosh a video on the internet can get a billion views how many videos have a
00:45:33
billion views now a lot a lot because you've got this like growing like there's a lot of kids now
00:45:39
that are just very online and they like they use youtube as their main entertainment source and
00:45:45
like you said it's become almost a fabric of society and i was thinking about this the other day like twitter
00:45:50
now is part of the fabric of society like there are major like nations make statements on twitter
00:45:56
that can affect local global geopolitics and like all this stuff yeah crypto crypt
00:46:02
[Laughter] um okay but bring bringing it back to the point of this new story the point of
00:46:07
the decoder episode that kind of like made the reason this made headlines was that okay so patreon is a very old
00:46:14
platform right it's been around for a very long time it was like really early youtube is like when
00:46:19
patreon got started and the cool thing is like patreon got started just a little background because jack conti and his wife are musicians
00:46:27
and i i watched their videos yeah they were on youtube yeah yeah and they wanted to fund their
00:46:32
band with they wanted their band to be like their full-time thing but they're like how do we do this
00:46:38
and jack had created this music video that he put like blood sweat and tears into he spent all of his money in his
00:46:43
bank account to make this music video where he was like inside the millennium falcon like he built a cockpit in his
00:46:48
garage all of this stuff and he was just like this is so unsustainable because i got he got a million views on youtube with
00:46:55
that video which is amazing but he got like 300 in revenue and he spent multiple thousands so he
00:47:02
was like i want to do music full time how do i do this and he came up with this idea of
00:47:07
creator economy that it's he was so early to it but the point is he was so early and it was very early in youtube
00:47:13
that like when you sign up for a patreon page you're not generally in the patreon app doing
00:47:21
discovery right because like a lot of the reason that that apple or google says you owe us 30
00:47:27
is because they're get they're creating the discovery platform whereas patreon is such a different
00:47:32
thing because when you subscribe to a patreon account it's not discovery based you
00:47:38
already know that you really like this creator you're willing to give them three five ten dollars a month because
00:47:44
you wanna see extra content from them you wanna have that personal relationship with them and that's the only reason you're on that site right
00:47:50
now exactly it's it's not a discovery based platform at all it's like i love this person i want to give them
00:47:55
my money and so because of that generally people signed up for patreon accounts on the web
00:48:01
and so you would go on a website you go to the specific patreon page and you would say hey i'm gonna sign up
00:48:06
i'm gonna give you five dollars a month now the they do have an app obviously um but what neil i asked him was like so is apple taking 30
00:48:19
of every patreon subscription because like you know if people like sign up in the
00:48:24
app and uh because there was this whole elite battle with spotify where and netflix spotify and netflix like for a bit spotify offered hey if you
00:48:36
sign up for our account in the app it's 12.99 a month if you sign up on spotify.com it's 9.99 a month right
00:48:42
literally that's the difference and netflix i believe still doesn't have you still can't sign
00:48:48
up for a netflix account in the netflix app right you have to go on the web right for that reason so neil i was like
00:48:54
is apple taking 30 like how are you getting around that and he was like um no and so neil i was like that's weird like why haven't they come after you yet
00:49:05
because there's actually this other platform um that is similar to patreon uh where apple did go after them recently and they're a very small company
00:49:16
so it's kind of weird that like patreon hasn't been hit with this yet yeah um jack conti has i don't i don't
00:49:23
know if he's ready to face that legal challenge like when eli brought it up he seemed like a bit like i don't that's not really
00:49:30
something i want to deal with because i just want to like help people make money right um so
00:49:35
so yeah it's interesting and it's basically going to be this thing of like how hard is is apple gonna crack down
00:49:42
on all platforms you know gotcha interesting yeah yeah i think part of what we were saying too about that of like okay patreon is not necessarily a discovery platform yeah this is
00:49:54
something uh people talk about with only fans too it's like when you get to only fans someone else
00:50:00
funneled you there yeah it's not like you're i guess i don't know but i'm imagining people aren't browsing around only fans
00:50:06
looking for things they're not browsing around patreon finding things it's because someone sent them to their patreon yeah
00:50:12
so i wonder if the the ideal future of something like patreon is actually being more a part of the
00:50:19
fabric of this discovery that we have on youtube for example now i don't know if they ever want to be
00:50:25
part of youtube but wouldn't it be ideal if you could say hey if you would like to support
00:50:30
what i do there's a there's a couple buttons right below this video for you to just immediately like become a member
00:50:38
obviously youtube has channel memberships already but if you can really be off though never really took off and i don't
00:50:43
i i don't know if there's any good reason for it because it's kind of the same thing yeah you've put tiers in now different price levels
00:50:50
different rewards but it's the same thing where it's like you can you can be a part of that discovery because youtube will send
00:50:57
you places based on where it thinks you want to go yeah and then when you arrive there you'll have someone going hey if you like more
00:51:03
of what i do you can get more you can support me here yeah yeah that seems like actually an ideal
00:51:08
future i don't really know why it didn't take off yeah it's strange patreon specifically at the very end of
00:51:14
the podcast you mentioned that they specifically don't really want they don't want to be a platform i think that's the difference
00:51:19
is that like like you said they're not a discovery platform they want to be like just a way for
00:51:25
creators to get paid and because of that they don't actually host content they don't host video they don't host uh
00:51:32
like a mail delivery service so like they specifically partner with these other platforms these other
00:51:39
services that creators are already using so when you have patreon exclusive video content it's hosted through a vimeo
00:51:46
plugin when you have patreon exclusive uh music it's hosted through like a soundcloud
00:51:52
plugin and you have patreon exclusive email list it's hosted through a mailchimp plugin like they do not
00:51:59
really host content they're just a way for people to get paid and they wanted to do that specifically because
00:52:06
it's as soon as you start hosting content that all of this stuff gets murky right right there's a reason that like
00:52:12
there's all that um there's a lot of discussion that like twitter needs to be uh held accountable for what its users
00:52:18
post and that whole like section the legal part yeah yeah yeah that's the whole thing and so i think they're just
00:52:23
trying to avoid that because they're just like we really just want people to get paid yeah i also think they might be incentivized
00:52:30
if if that was a part of their like new business that say oh we'll do exclusive content built into patreon
00:52:36
it would actually be good for their business to shuffle people around and discover other patreon things that
00:52:42
they can also subscribe to yeah so you'd want people to you eventually become a site that wants people to stay on patreon as long as
00:52:49
possible yeah to make patreon as much money as possible because you're going and bouncing around to different creators on patreon
00:52:55
rather than just like this very direct relationship between the creator and one patreon site yeah i
00:53:01
do think they understand that it's very difficult to be like you might like this person do you want to give them a
00:53:07
monthly fee of five dollars yeah it's tough like we grew up in this era where like as soon as the iphone and the like ipod touch came out most apps were free so our generation is
00:53:20
not used to paying for online content the music thing is the number one is like the biggest shift i've seen i
00:53:26
remember back in the day on itunes it was like i a new album comes out and it's like all right
00:53:31
the whole album is 10 bucks but i only like three songs from the album and i'm going to buy these three songs for 99
00:53:37
cents each and they're in my library and i make the tough choice of never listening to any of the rest of those songs again
00:53:42
which is a horrible idea by the way yeah but oftentimes the first the songs you hate the most that's true end up being the best songs
00:53:48
on the album that's true but now like if you bring that up to like my you know teenage cousins they're like you
00:53:54
paid for one song are you kidding you paid a dollar yeah and yeah so like now they're just so used to
00:54:00
being subscribed to apple music subscribe to spotify where you have access to a library for a fee and that's
00:54:06
the service you get for paying every month and the second you stop paying guess what nothing is available to you
00:54:12
yeah and that's totally fine and that's a that's a version that everyone is just basically accepted at this point yeah um
00:54:19
so yeah i think we're just kind of building off of that like new philosophy of like yeah this service provides value to me and the
00:54:26
second it doesn't anymore i can just not have it anymore yeah which i i think is a good way forward there are a lot of people that are very against not owning what you oh yeah what you view what you listen to
00:54:38
i totally totally understand that as well but in this world that is moving like so
00:54:44
internet focused that you don't really need an office and a lot of for a lot of jobs anymore
00:54:49
you can live anywhere you want just being able to have as much stuff digital as possible so
00:54:55
that you don't have as much physical weighing you down i think is a great thing yeah here's a yeah here's a random question
00:55:01
to tie this up for a subscription mindset yeah i was gonna phrase it one way i'm just gonna
00:55:06
go to the extreme okay would you pay a subscription for access to your car so instead of buying your car would you pay 25 a month for a tesla model 3.
00:55:21
you mean a lease it's less than a lease because you're just paying for access to it
00:55:26
yeah it'd probably be more it would be way more than 25 a month let's say let's say 200 bucks a month for access
00:55:34
to the car and the second that you don't pay it anymore you don't have it but you can cancel at any time yeah you also
00:55:39
have to pay insurance would that be worth it to you a thousand percent i i mean personally
00:55:45
uh for people who know me i have major commitment issues so even getting an apartment was like
00:55:52
extremely stressful for me because i love the idea of just like one day i'm like you know
00:55:57
what today i want to live in iceland oh so it's an advantage for you to not have to own it oh yeah oh i see owning big physical things is
00:56:04
scary because i was going to say like you own the car would you pay 20 bucks a month for autopilot and if you ever stop paying
00:56:10
then you don't have it anymore and that's what they're gonna do that's what they're gonna do and people really don't like that it's like i
00:56:15
own my car it has software on it i own the car i use the software period yeah don't
00:56:20
make me pay over and over again for the thing i already own and bought from you but yeah if you just take it all the way
00:56:27
to the extreme of like well you don't own your car but you can use it like you own it until you stop
00:56:32
paying yeah that would be fine i'd be fine with not owning my car i don't think a lot of people would i
00:56:37
don't think any everyone would the autopilot thing it again it's gonna depend on i know
00:56:43
this is a little like we're going over here but this is like a little bit like autopilot right now cost ten thousand
00:56:49
dollars yep if they made it 30 bucks a month you're basically weighing like how long do i think i'm going to have this car is this a bet is it a better deal for me to have it temporarily yeah
00:57:01
will it affect the resale value all this it's a math thing but i i do think that a lot of people
00:57:07
are okay with like paying very little amounts monthly instead of paying a lot now and then having this physical burden on them yeah yeah makes sense so anyway all right
00:57:18
well i think that's a good place to end it we sort of talked about a spectrum of things we hit the boston dynamics thing we had xperia one mark
00:57:25
three we talked windows 11. yeah that's actually a lot of topics it is kind of a solid variety i didn't really have very
00:57:30
good segues today because they're they're just not really related in any good ways um but david
00:57:36
thanks for joining me on the podcast if you want to find other things david does where should they find you
00:57:41
um well my twitter is at durvida mill on twitter that's pretty much my main platform where i say a lot of things um
00:57:48
it's part of the fabric of your existence fabric of my personality uh obviously you can also
00:57:54
find things i do on here and then uh davidamel.com it's my website but it's like you know i
00:58:01
update that every now and then word you'll be back for sure yes awesome yes all right
00:58:06
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00:58:19
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