00:00:00
I feel like there's got to be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost her?
00:00:07
Hates him. No. No. But we hate him so much we want him back. Easy to make fun of. Literally,
00:00:12
but it's got to it's endearing. Could instead of co-pilot, they could have just done Clippy and everyone would
00:00:17
have loved it. It could have been awful and we would have been like, "Yeah, but it's Clippy. It's Clippy. Don't give him a chance."
00:00:23
He was bad originally, too. He's got a face. Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.
00:00:35
I'm Andrew. And I'm David. This week we well, it's still Techtober, so we still have a lot going on. We tested the
00:00:41
YouTube collab feature in more than one way. Uh we also have possibly a phone of the year in the house, or at least a
00:00:47
really interesting one. Uh also new M5 chip and some new devices that it is in from Apple. Goodbye to Windows 10 and exploding phone. A lot of places we could go to start this podcast.
00:00:59
Yeah. But first, the way I think we will go, did you guys see Becca's video after of
00:01:05
like her first year as a creator? I think everyone watched. Yeah, she's been on the pod. She's been on the pod and her episode
00:01:11
was great. But I just wanted to toss it out there because like I think our audience one loves tech
00:01:17
YouTube and two a lot of them are probably like interested in making tech YouTube content. and she just like did
00:01:24
this really wellthoughtout video of her first year as a full-time creator and how much money she's made and how she's
00:01:30
made it and what's it been like creating in that scenario after she teased her merch which I want so bad
00:01:35
to see that. Yeah, the merch is really good. I've seen it. I'm sure it will be fantastic. Um, but I just think it's a mustwatch video and
00:01:43
everyone most of our audience I think would thoroughly enjoy. If you're not following her already, you should.
00:01:48
Even if you don't go watch that video. Yeah. Yeah. I think I have such a good segue. Okay, in that video she talks about like her
00:01:56
arc of her first year of being an independent creator where she was she monetized her channel with the ads that
00:02:01
are built in to YouTube and then she also proceeded to start doing brand deals and how she goes through that
00:02:08
process and that I talked about that exact arc in the Adams interview where creators on all platforms kind of go through a similar arc. You start with the built-in monetization tools on the
00:02:18
platform and then as you expand and as you grow you can start to have an audience big enough to maybe do your own
00:02:25
ads and reach your audience independently with for an individual company. Uh so the ader interview is the next
00:02:32
thing that we can mention at least because we were talking about YouTube collab feature. Yeah, YouTube collabs uh are a thing now. You
00:02:39
can collaborate actually between multiple creators I think on one channel but we've tested it for a couple. Was it Mr. first one with like 100
00:02:46
creators. I thought it was Mark Grober and only thought it was Mark over, but he started adding to it. I thought I could very
00:02:52
well be wrong about that. But yes, you can definitely go up to four at least. Yeah. I mean, you've seen this in the past like on Instagram, you can have
00:02:58
more than one person have the same post in their feed and they'll they'll all be quote responsible for the same post.
00:03:04
Yeah, it works a similar way on YouTube, but we found out and actually I've I've done this with a couple older videos and now
00:03:10
a couple newer videos just to learn how this works. we found out exactly how it works. Um, if I have already uploaded a
00:03:17
video and I add another creator as a collaborator, that creator's audience will see that video in their recommended and they get to see that creator. You
00:03:29
can share like analytics with them and they can see like how the video is doing and things like that. So, I've had a couple older videos like the collab we
00:03:35
did with the Dyson headphones with Dr. Mike where he comes in and explains why they're a terrible idea. like I added
00:03:40
him as a collaborator on that, his audience can potentially now start to see that video in their recommended as
00:03:46
if it was uploaded by his channel. But also, if it's a new enough video, it shows up in the subbox, too. So, it doesn't show up on your channel if you're a collaborator, but it shows up in the subbox for your audience if you
00:03:59
accept as a collaborator. So, we did this with the newest Waveform episode interviewing Adam Miseri because I've interviewed tech executives before and this was it felt like a right
00:04:10
opportunity to try that collab feature. And we did this with a studio video which was our like 45minute epic how we
00:04:19
make high quality videos walking through the process from beginning to end and the whole post-production.
00:04:25
This is post-production. Yeah, cuz it's the second version of one. Yeah. um and got a lot more feedback on
00:04:30
the podcast version because I think the podcast audience or our our channel audience on a brand new video didn't
00:04:36
expect a podcast as much as the studio seemed to fit in. Got a lot more feedback on the podcast. So, hearing
00:04:43
that loud and clear, but for sure. Yeah, I think one of the things was so we at first didn't realize it goes into
00:04:48
the subscription feed. Yeah, I personally didn't know that many people still use the subscription feed.
00:04:53
I very rarely use it on my TV, but I think I guess just my algorithm is pretty dialed into what I like to watch. So, I usually just am on the homepage. Um, I do think podcast got a little more flak
00:05:08
because we went studio channel podcast and it was the second one that showed up in people's feeds that wasn't from
00:05:13
MKBHD. So, people were much more adamant about telling us like I don't want to see this garbage. Each of those uploads
00:05:19
were uploaded to the other channel and then MKBHD channel was added as a collaborator instead of vice versa.
00:05:25
So it was showing up on MKBHD subscribers subscription boxes when they were not subscribed to those those channels. Which there's a valid argument I think for both sides. Like if
00:05:37
I'm a creator and I think that the content I'm making on this other channel is different enough to warrant a
00:05:42
different channel for a different audience with different subscribers then okay. Yeah, it makes sense that people
00:05:47
don't want both of those things on one feed, but also if it's a good enough overlap, you know, you can see sometimes
00:05:53
that cross collaboration feels a little more natural. So, yeah, work sometimes. I thought my my thoughts on it were I
00:06:00
thought the Missouri interview was very similar to like talking tech stuff that has been on main channel before and it's
00:06:06
a bonus. It's not just a regular episode. So, that's why we thought it would be fun. The studio one was like
00:06:11
pretty much how the team here edits main channel videos. So, felt like a good um
00:06:16
connection between them. I think people might think we were going to do this with every single post, which was never the plan, but we also now
00:06:23
definitely are will never do that. Um I saw a lot of people saying like, I know the waveform. I know the podcast exists
00:06:30
and I just don't want to listen to podcasts, but like you have 20 million subs on the main channel. Doing that
00:06:36
collab difference between a 500 sub channel, 500,000 sub channel and a 20 million. Like, there are plenty of your
00:06:42
audience that don't know we exist. So every once in a while like getting that is beneficial as like when it makes
00:06:47
sense. Yeah. When it makes sense. So personally I was just confused because Marquez could have easily uploaded this
00:06:53
on his channel and tagged Waveform as a collab and I don't think we would have gotten the blowback. Yeah. I think if we So if I had done
00:07:00
this like when I typically had done all those um executive tech company person interviews in the past, it wouldn't have like the waveform bumper and then it wouldn't be in the podcast set. So I
00:07:11
think when people saw that they were like more heightened alert to the fact that it was a podcast versus if I had
00:07:16
just jumped in and it was 30 minutes instead of 45 and it just felt like another one of those videos it might
00:07:22
have felt different. The thumbnails also in the waveform style. So I think they're just more aware of it in certain cases.
00:07:27
Uh but I do agree like that's the I coming out of that interview I felt like oh this is something that feels in the
00:07:33
style of the other uh tech executive interviews which made it a good opportunity for a collab. It's also
00:07:39
funny because all the comments on this will probably be like, "I saw no issue because none of the waveform listeners
00:07:45
are going to listen to this episode and hear us complain about it and it doesn't really matter." But well, here's your PSA. Go listen to it.
00:07:52
Go check it out. Yeah, it's pretty good. I think I thought it was pretty good. Yeah. But yeah, we that's that's more
00:07:57
about the Yeah, we have to check out this phone. You haven't seen this phone yet, right? I have not actually seen it yet. Have you seen the video about it?
00:08:02
Yes. Okay. So, this is the Xiaomi 17 Pro Max. Yeah. God, I want it. Yeah. So, the thing
00:08:09
about this phone Yeah. Do you have the Game Boy case for it? I I don't have it with me. It's uh we have one for the Pro, so it's too small
00:08:15
to actually put on the on the phone. Oh, really? So, I This is the Pro Max phone, and we have the case for the Pro. Got it. Either way,
00:08:20
me when I see this phone. So, this phone I mean, Xiaomi has been doing their uh Hyper OS, what is it
00:08:27
called? HyperOS. Yeah. For a while, where it has lots of cues and things that remind you of iOS,
00:08:36
right? Yeah. And that's fine. and they've done it for years. Some people like it, some people don't. But this year, more than ever,
00:08:44
more obviously than ever, they just connected it directly to the latest iPhones. They changed the name of the
00:08:49
phone. It's this. It's the 17 Pro, 17 Pro Max. Uh, and they have the same shape as the
00:08:56
iPhone. They have the same similar shape of the camera bump as the iPhone. Did a whole bunch of things to like line it up
00:09:02
with the iPhone. So, the comparison writes itself. Yeah. But the phone itself is really,
00:09:07
really good. And a lot of things about it that the iPhone doesn't do uh are some of my favorite things about it.
00:09:13
Like the screen on the back, the cameras, the the actual images that came out of this. I'm curious, I'm going to
00:09:18
hand it to you right now, what you think of it, like holding it. It's lighter than the 17 Pro Max. It's concerningly light.
00:09:24
Yes. It's lighter than the iPhone. Uh it's got a 7,500 mAh silicon carbon battery inside
00:09:31
with a 100 watt charging, 50 watt wireless charging. Literally the same size. Yeah. 22 1/2 watt reverse wireless charging. So it'll basically be a
00:09:41
battery bank to your iPhone and fill it from 0 to 100. It's kind of kind of sick. 7500 watts.
00:09:47
Yeah. 7500 mill. It's also triple 50 megapixel. Yeah. That would be bad. Triple 50 megapixel cameras.
00:09:54
Uh which is triple convenient. Yeah. The bottom one is the ultra wide. It's It kind of doesn't look like triple, but that's the ultra wide.
00:10:00
That does not look like a camera. What happens when you're holding it like this? It finger show up in the photo.
00:10:06
Yeah, you can kind of cover the ultra wide a little bit if you're not careful. What I will say though is the main
00:10:11
camera is pretty wide. So, the ultra wide doesn't feel that much wider. It's like a 23 mm
00:10:17
equivalent. The sharpening is a little much and it's very processed. Yeah, the processing from the photos is pretty
00:10:24
serious. Yeah, but then it like flattens out and processes, right? gets way. That's funny because uh
00:10:29
iPhone photos generally you the preview looks terrible and you take it and it gets it gets, you know, a little bit
00:10:35
better. This one everything looks super oversharpened, then you take the photo and then it
00:10:40
smooths out. Yeah. So, the photos I think looked pretty good. The photos look good. Yeah. Yeah. Um so, the cameras are good, the
00:10:47
battery is good, the screen is good, the design is good, and then there's a screen on the back which has been
00:10:53
evolving the exact same way that flipping phones have, which we had. We had the like tiny poster stamp one which
00:10:58
is just like the time and then it got a little bigger and then you could like take selfies with it. Now it's a whole full width thing with the camera cutouts
00:11:05
and you can play games on it if you're really into that. But the phone itself like for being
00:11:10
cheaper than the iPhone is it is a really compelling price. So it's in China only. This model is roughly an $850 equivalent for the 17 Pro Max. So that's like noticeably
00:11:22
cheaper than the iPhone. Does it have a lot more have more storage? It has 16 gigs of RAM. This one has a terabyte of storage, so it's definitely
00:11:28
more than the base, but it is it is a seriously well equipped device. It does feel kind of just like an iPhone
00:11:36
with the extra bezels. What's funny is that the a lot of people were speculating cuz there was this leaked,
00:11:41
it was not a leaked video, it was a render that came out that showed this, what is it? They call this the plateau
00:11:47
on the iPhone. Yeah. They showed it like flipping sideways and it was just it was a crappy render.
00:11:53
Oh, Yeah, but it like flipped sideways and there's a screen underneath and that's literally what this is. I mean, it doesn't flip, but there is a screen there.
00:12:00
The whole screen on the back. That's crazy. And it's like a full interface that you can do things with. I think this is exactly how Apple would
00:12:06
do it. So, you're what you're doing now. You're like holding holding it down and like swiping between watch faces. I keep thinking they're watch faces, but
00:12:12
they're not a watch. Feels like watch faces. Clock faces. Yeah. Um, and then there's a whole personalization on the phone, so
00:12:20
you can change the colors and like mess with different sizes of fonts and things like that. Oh my gosh, that one is No, the one to
00:12:26
the left is literally the new Apple Watch. Literally the new Apple Watch font. Like the font for the extremely similar
00:12:33
in the thumbnail. Yeah. Yeah. So, this is this is a really good phone. It's also one of the first phones with the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5.
00:12:40
Uh, ridiculously quick. Why did they put 120 Hz on the back display? The back display is 120 Hz, 3500 nits,
00:12:49
like full full high quality high resolution 3in corner corner. Like I get why it's OLED to use what
00:12:55
less power since you're going to use that as an ambient clock, but the fact that it's 120 Hz just feels overkill.
00:13:00
It's beautiful. I love it. I mean, yes, it's great. It's great. I've taken more selfies on this phone than I have in like the last year of
00:13:06
other phones, I think. And the software looks like it's trying to copy Apple, but it does it do a
00:13:12
uh Yeah. A lot of a lot of the stock apps feel like Apple apps, like the the settings app, the camera app, a lot of
00:13:18
the stuff like the weather app, the calendar, they look like the notes app, they all look like Apple clones, and that's fine for some people. They
00:13:24
they're just as functional. If you have a Xiaomi account, you log in, everything syncs. But I have a question.
00:13:29
Yeah. The dynamic island, it seems to have the same like kind of animation when you get a notification and stuff. Does it have
00:13:35
the same persistent animation when you're like playing a song like on Spotify or something? Will it
00:13:40
Google like added that to that got added to a lot of that got added to like Android in general? Yeah. So when you're charging it just
00:13:47
stays there and when you're playing media it stays there. If you open the music appixel
00:13:52
out yet? Uh Pixel doesn't have it but if you open on a Samsung phone if you if you have music playing has it but Samsung also
00:14:00
has it like towards the bottom right like the the now the bar now. But it also has at
00:14:05
the top like a literal dynamic island clone. This one is even more of a clone. Okay, speaking of Apple clones, have you
00:14:12
guys seen this Magic OS 10 video on threads? It's so good. Magic OS 10. Oh, you haven't seen this yet?
00:14:18
Okay, just watch this on my screen. Okay, so it's literally just the super transparent icons, everything about it. Literally everything about it. You can change the transparency though,
00:14:30
it seems. Gosh, there's like a slider. Yeah. So, it turns into liquid and then glass and then there's defraction and there's all the settings panels and then the app icons.
00:14:42
That's not even the time the time like warps. Yeah. Everything about it. Even the Siri
00:14:49
animation at the bottom. The air. I still haven't said what this is. Well, it's okay. Magic OS 10. It's
00:14:55
Honor's new UI. UI. So, you're looking at like a clone of liquid glass. It looks almost exactly the same. It's a
00:15:01
teaser of wow of their new operating system and it looks exactly like liquid glass. And when I was first watching this, I
00:15:08
was like, "Okay, everyone's going to go the glass thing. This seems pretty blatant." But
00:15:13
there's one specific shot in that where I was like, "I've seen that shot before." The icon. So, what I did was I
00:15:21
ripped the uh that teaser and part of the announcement for Liquid Glass from Apple and I put them back toback. So, I'm going to show both of you guys what's happening in these is there's an
00:15:32
app icon with a bunch of different colors and they look like pieces of glass falling onto an app icon
00:15:39
icon. You'll be able to tell which it is because it figure it goes into the um the apps next to it, but these are
00:15:46
almost identical, right? So, this is the this is the Magic OS one. This is the Magic OS one
00:15:51
and then this is the Apple one. Oh my gosh. We can play this in the video, but that's what I'm saying. literally almost
00:15:57
identical. It's essentially two app icons that have a bunch of colors kind of creating almost like a petal. Yeah.
00:16:03
That look exactly the same. Yeah. And the um the colored glass falls down and swirls around into it. It is.
00:16:09
Yeah. The animation is exactly the same. The the airdrop animation is exactly the same. Yeah. It's
00:16:14
You know what's funny? When you point this out, like when I point this out in the Xiaomi video, for example, there's
00:16:19
there's like two different camps of thought. One of them is like, you know, they've been doing this
00:16:25
forever. this isn't copying Apple. Like there's actually people who are defending the originality of what is
00:16:31
going on here. And then there's other people who are like, why bother ripping it off? Like I'm never going to buy the
00:16:36
ripoff. You're just ripping off the thing that I already like. So this just feels like a second rate version. So why
00:16:43
would this ever work? You know what I think it is? Apple has the kind of money to and Google as well,
00:16:48
but they have the kind of money to do all of the like market research and user experience testing to like figure things
00:16:54
out in a way that these other companies don't even want to bother. It's interesting. I mean, I think some of it comes down to like market
00:17:00
dominance in certain ways. Like we we made the switching video about how like it appears that they copy each other a
00:17:06
lot of ways just to make potential customers more comfortable. So even if you're Xiaomi, you have
00:17:11
billions of dollars. Xiaomi is an enormous company. They make washing machines and cars. Like they have the
00:17:16
money to do the testing, but they also know that if they're going to steal customers,
00:17:22
they have to feel at least approachable and familiar to the people who use it. Yeah. So that ends up looking like what we're
00:17:28
seeing. Uh my favorite tech book of the year, Apple and China. Yeah. Talks a lot about this. Uh, and it's
00:17:34
specifically about how um I don't know if it's still the case in 2025, but for a long time the iPhone
00:17:41
really was this like giant status symbol in China. And even though it only makes up less than 25% of smartphone market share in
00:17:48
in China, I think it is sort of hailed as like a flagship market leader and it is the thing to capture. And then also the thing that I think sheds a lot of light on like a lot of Chinese phones
00:18:00
looking like the iPhone is so much of Apple's iPhone development happens in China now at Chinese either like in Chinese factories where they're developing the techniques to build it or in Apple's like offices in China.
00:18:17
And so um it's not like they don't have access now to the same infrastructure and tools to make such similar phones.
00:18:24
Well, hey, speaking of Apple, Apple actually did drop a new thing, several new things this week, as we sort of
00:18:30
expected. There was rumors leading up to it, but they did it. M5. We have an M5 chip and three new devices that it will
00:18:37
be shipping in right from the get-go. Can we pause and thank Apple for releasing these
00:18:43
first thing in the morning on Wednesday? Oh, appreciate that. Because of our entire podcast. I'm not saying they did this for us, but
00:18:50
I'm not not saying that either. I just the the chance of this releasing at 2 p.m. today or tomorrow was so high and all of us were like, "Please, if
00:19:01
this comes out this week, we want to talk about it." They dropped at 9:00 a.m. ET, which is 6 a.m. PT, and they love to do stuff at
00:19:07
10:00 a.m. PT. So, they love to make our lives miserable. Yeah. So, we won't be late this week. Thank you, Jaws.
00:19:13
We have the new stuff. So, they So, there's three three devices. The M5 will show up in the new iPad Pro, the new
00:19:19
MacBook Pro, and the new Vision Pro, but only the 14-inch base MacBook Pro. Yeah. So, let's go through them one by
00:19:24
one. MacBook Pro, as you mentioned, MacBook Pro has before today M4, M4 Pro, M4 Max. This M5 is just the base M5. So, it's replacing the M4.
00:19:36
Yeah, there is still an M4 Pro and an M4 Max above. Also only in the 14inch. In the 14inch. Exactly. because the 15
00:19:42
the 16 in starts with the M4 Pro now. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's already getting confusing. But
00:19:49
essentially anywhere where you would see just a base M4 chip, that's where you're slotting in M5
00:19:56
except for the other than iMac and MacBook Air and regular iPad. Sound like a prescription medicine. You should probably ask your doctor before you buy an Pro. There's a legitimate question like
00:20:08
why didn't they just wait until they had everything ready and then drop it all at once. I don't know if there's a good answer for that. But yeah, this is just
00:20:16
14in MacBook Pro base M4. That's now base M5. What do you get out of that? A little bit more GPU, a little bit better ondevice AI processing. Marquez, it ushers in the big it ushers
00:20:28
in the biggest leap in AI performance for Apple silicon ever. They said that last year though. It's
00:20:34
true. They have done most of their improvements between M4 and M5 in the GPU and neural engine.
00:20:40
That's what they said last year. That's what they said for M4. I think when they say that you can also
00:20:45
infer that the CPU improvements are not as big and not as much of a focus and that the stock price will go up. But
00:20:52
yeah that they for people who have ondevice AI processing workloads or tasks that they specifically want to do
00:20:59
better then that jump between M4 and M5 will be the most noticeable for that person
00:21:04
with for the baseline chip for the baseline chip the most for the least likely person to use.
00:21:11
People that need the stuff that this is better at are going to get the better ones when they come out. M5 Pro.
00:21:16
Why would they buy the baseline MacBook Pro? It's a great question. They're going to buy the Max or the Ultra if it ever
00:21:23
comes to It's just a little appetizer for the main course, which is the Vision Pro. M5 Pro,
00:21:28
which is the main course is the Vision Pro. Apparently, battery life gets a lot better, too. 24-hour battery life in the
00:21:33
new 14-inch MacBook Pro M5 base. All day. Base. It's pretty good. 24 is all day.
00:21:38
Yeah, it's all it's a literal all day. Once they hit 25 hours, we can say more than all day. This They just did this with the iPhone,
00:21:45
too, didn't they? were or was it with the Apple Watch where they've been doing all day all day, but then a couple of them are 24 hours and now it's like now
00:21:51
I really have no idea what all day specifically reference 24 hours. All day is probably from when you wake up to
00:21:57
when you go to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's really all day. Does all day change in the winter time
00:22:03
cuz the sun is up for last I mean does asterisk only in winter? When it I mean when it gets colder your
00:22:09
phone battery is worse. But that's fine because there's way less daylight so it's still all day. Exactly. It even out unless you wake up
00:22:17
later. Yeah. No, you wake up at the same time even if it's not light out. It's darker. Anyway,
00:22:23
the sun. Yeah. All day. # When the sun is out. No. Yeah. So, MacBook Pro gets those
00:22:29
minimal improvements. iPad Pro also gets the minimal improvements. I think it also gets the C1X modem. That's new for the iPad Pro.
00:22:34
Uh, so a little more GPU, a little more on device AI processing. Why you're doing this on your iPad, I don't know,
00:22:41
but you're that guy in the commercial who does it. So, congrats. new M5 chip. And then the Vision Pro. The Vision Pro
00:22:47
got a couple things. Why? So, the Vision Pro had, was it M2 before this? Now, it's M5. So, theoretically, a bigger overall uh processing and GPU
00:22:59
improvement. So, it actually has a couple other things that they mentioned specifically should be better. It's rendering more pixels at once. So, the
00:23:06
fiated rendering, it's like 10% more pixels are sharper, which is I mean, that's pretty nice. It should be
00:23:12
a higher refresh rate. Should be just overall crisper. And it said 120 Hz, right?
00:23:18
Up to 120 Hz refresh rate looking at your surroundings. That's good. So, that's nice. Yeah. Um, and then slightly better battery
00:23:26
life. And there's a new dual knit band that goes around. So, the knit band before just went around the back of your
00:23:32
head. This dual knit band has a knit band around the back and then a knit band around the top. Yeah. And then you can adjust both. So, for
00:23:38
context, they released the standard knit band that goes around the back, and then people said, "Oh, this really hurts my
00:23:43
head." So, then they released the top band, and the top band is an additional attachment cuz the weight distribution
00:23:49
was all messed up. Yeah. So, the back knit band was the aesthetic one for the commercials, but
00:23:54
when you wear it, it's like it's like pulling it up against your face and all the weight is hanging against the brow,
00:24:00
the bridge of your nose. And so, people It looked really cool, but it was like uncomfortable to wear. The ugly one that has the strap over the
00:24:07
top of your head would lift that weight off of your brow. Sorry. Yeah. Lifted the weight off of your brow. So, it
00:24:13
wasn't as pretty for the commercials, but it was more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time because the
00:24:19
weight distribution. And now they've released the dual knit band, which looks like the first original cool looking one, but with a
00:24:25
band over the top. The irony is that it is $99 and they are still selling the other two. So now all
00:24:33
three of the bands are $99 and there's only one you should buy. Yep. Yeah. I'm sorry, but two knits is just not
00:24:40
bright enough. I really think Hey, if I'm in bed at night, it's a pun, guys. I know. It's a joke. It was pretty funny. It's a good pun. That was a good one. Yell is getting good.
00:24:51
I thought it getting good. Wow. I've been on this podcast for I have three years of bangers.
00:24:57
That's his first good joke. He's on the He's on the right track. I did Google Drive.
00:25:02
That's what you think. Yeah. So, you can buy the new You can buy the new Nitband for your old Vision Pro. Your old Have you guys used Vision Pro in a while?
00:25:09
I used it to check a 360 video for a friend who was doing it for a client. I want to use it for the NBA games this
00:25:16
season. Oh, yeah. I did see that. There's going to be a couple of them on there. They just announced that. They just announced the first live
00:25:21
sports coming Division Pro. Like the first when this came out, weren't they like touting this? They were promising. They were
00:25:27
promising, but it's live. And where have you been? This is how it all goes nowadays.
00:25:32
I mean, this is Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly what you said like you would buy
00:25:38
this for? Yeah. I want to be able to sit courtside at the Lakers game, but not be there.
00:25:44
But still, but still look around and appreciate and maybe even switch cameras. Maybe there's one on the baseline and the other side. I switched to half court and stuff like that. How much are courtside tickets usually
00:25:55
in LA? I don't know if you could buy them a Vision Pro every time. Every time. I was just wondering about a
00:26:01
Vision Pro time. That's the funny thing about basketball is how popular some of the players are. It seems like
00:26:06
I remember I still don't know if this is a rumor, but when the Nets were still in Newark, there was a potentially a promotion
00:26:14
where if you got Nets tickets, you could get a reversible jersey that had the Nets and another team.
00:26:19
Wow. That might be fake, but that's how unpopular the Nets were in New Jersey. I was a Nets fan for years. I mean, they
00:26:26
were a good They were a playoff team. They went to the finals. They went to the finals in like 2000,
00:26:31
right? It was a good team. Is Shaq still in the Lakers? Cuz I feel like if you're watching still in the Lakers, is he
00:26:38
I feel like if you're watching, guys, don't ruin this. Yeah, he's totally If you're watching it in Vision Pro,
00:26:43
you would have to look really high up to see him. That'd be cool. That's true. That's hovering over you.
00:26:49
He plays the game and in intermission does the general commercials. Yeah, I know he's not on the team anymore. I was making that was making a
00:26:55
joke. But I did see him in Staples a couple days ago. He's still Staples Center cuz he plays for the Los
00:27:01
Angeles Lakers. Crypto. He no crypto. We don't call it that. He is still he is still there are still
00:27:08
big cardboard cutouts of Shaq at Staples with a printer for some reason. Wow. He's really letting it loose.
00:27:14
Those royalties must be must be good, man. He's running out of shack food money. printer companies are like, "We could
00:27:20
make this work on Wi-Fi or get a shack cut out or buy a failed AI pin company." Yes. HP does make printers, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. What do you think the P stands for?
00:27:33
Well, HP, my first computer ever was an HP. Mine, too? Yeah. I started this YouTube channel
00:27:39
with a HP Pavilion DV7 T at a Dell. Wow. It was thick. Mine was a Sony Vio Vio Vio Vio. And I
00:27:47
did not start a YouTube channel with it. I still I have a place in my heart for H for HP. I was about to say HTC. That's
00:27:52
another place in my heart. HC HP for for those old Sony for those old you guys are putting all these old nostalgic names in my head for these old HP laptops. I still like them. But yeah,
00:28:03
they did make printers and they definitely aren't good. Do they do still make them
00:28:08
and now they own Humane. Wow. Full circle. How did we get here from Vision Pro? Yeah, you brought up Shack and Staples Pro. Sorry, sorry. Anyway, yes, I would love to watch in the new Vision Pro and
00:28:22
even higher fidelity courtside live NBA game in League Pass. I will Are you going to do it this year? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to I'm
00:28:28
dust off my Vision Pro and I'm going to watch I'm not even going to upgrade. I'm going to use my old crusty old Vision Pro and
00:28:34
watch those games. Do you think we have one in the studio? Yeah, we do. We have one here. I'm borrowing that one. Do you think that people will actually
00:28:40
buy Vision Pro for this? No. But that's the thing is like there's not that much content for Vision Pro,
00:28:45
but Apple has been continuing this slow drip of content of potential reasons to either it's not a reason to buy Vision Pro, but it's a reason to keep using Vision Pro. Yeah. Until it has an actual use.
00:28:57
Yeah. So, when you first if you first got Vision Pro when it first came out and all the content was available at once and then you had nothing new for a
00:29:04
year, you just wouldn't use it very much, I think. So if they continue to slowly drip new content, new
00:29:11
experiences, then it keeps it feeling fresh. Like if sports could keep the cable boxes going, it might work with Vision
00:29:17
Pro. Problem is how Never mind. How local sports is keeping brutal? Yeah. Also, the boomers are not going to be using Vision Pro and they're all the ones with cable, right? Or do you guys
00:29:29
have cable? Don't you have you like kind of need cable for a lot of local sports and it's you can't just YouTube TV or whatever.
00:29:34
The devil's game. So YouTube TV still does the local blackouts. So if you if you watch Oh, you don't know about local sports blackouts? Oh, it must be nice. Oh god. So if you're a fan of let's say
00:29:47
you watch basketball, there's a bunch of teams you can watch. Okay. Uh in your local so you get YouTube TV,
00:29:53
right? You're watching the Dallas versus LA game. It pulls up. You watch the game. Great. But in your own region, you're a little
00:29:59
more likely to be a fan of your own team. So let's say you want to watch the New York teams games, the Knicks.
00:30:04
There's a special deal with the Knicks and the New York team where their broadcasts are only shown by this local
00:30:11
TV network. So if you pull it up on YouTube TV, it's just blacked out. Oh, you're in New York, can't watch it on YouTube. You need cable to watch MSG
00:30:18
network to watch the Knicks game. We used to be a country. So it's like, yes, you can mostly watch NBA games with YouTube TV, but
00:30:25
you use a VPN. It's so confusing. I've gone through the ringer of trying to do all this. MSG is
00:30:31
specifically annoying in the New York area because it's the Knicks, the Rangers, the Islanders, and the Devils.
00:30:38
So, if you're a fan of any of those teams in this hockey specifically, like it's very hard to watch. You need And
00:30:43
then Xfinity can't make a deal with MSG. So, even if you bought Xfinity Cable, you'll get
00:30:49
charged the fee every month for local sports networks, but you don't have four of the local teams.
00:30:56
It's insane. Wow. Don't worry, guys. Warner Bros. Discovery Paramount is going to make
00:31:01
this a lot easier. If the Vision Pro could solve all of this, I would buy another Vision Pro.
00:31:06
I'm looking for like another source for confirmation, but it seems like you need
00:31:12
to live in the Los Angeles area to get the Lakers games on Vision Pro. They're not they're not making it available to you have to be an existing Spectrum Sportsnet customer, which is
00:31:26
All right, I'm out. because I have many of studio. Oh my god, I'm out. But I'm looking for confirmation cuz I also don't pay for cable. I my I I watch my team when they don't play in New York
00:31:38
City on YouTube TV. Yeah. The Philadelphia 76ers, the greatest basketball team ever assembled.
00:31:44
So, they're taking this the small subset of Vision Pro users and then subsetting
00:31:49
that even more into people who live in LA and then subsetting that more into people that are into basketball into
00:31:56
people who are subscribers of that niche TV League Pass. It's not It's not It's I don't think
00:32:02
it's that niche. I think it's the main It's the channel you have to get to watch any Los Angeles sports. They have like the
00:32:08
local. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Well, I prefer to watch it in 67 Tik Tok reels.
00:32:16
So, and that's how I watch the game. Yeah, just like I watch movies. You can live in Southern Nevada or
00:32:22
Hawaii. Okay. Hey, Southern Nevada or you can just be there. I'm there. Fly to Vegas. Okay. Well, we're uh not a tech podcast
00:32:32
anymore, but we'll return to being one after we do the thing that is also not tech, but the questions are about tech sometimes. Yeah, today it might be about hermit
00:32:47
crabs or something today. I don't know. Do you want a question about hermit crabs? Cuz I can pull one up. Is it a hermit crab question?
00:32:53
I could do the I don't know anything about I could do the mantis shrimp ones. I know a lot about those guys. I don't
00:32:58
have time to find a hermit crab question. So, it said we got to do a question about the hermit crabs of the tech
00:33:06
world. Microsoft Windows, huh? I don't really know. I was kind of hoping the analogy king over there would see me through on that one. Anyway, someone put a big shell over It's a
00:33:17
shell of a Windows shell. No, no, Windows shell power. Power shell. They're also a shell
00:33:22
of what they once were. All right. Well, anyway, when we we're about to talk about or is that Steve left?
00:33:28
Steve Balmer. There you go. Developers. Kawaii. I'm sweating. Um, okay guys, after the break, we are going to talk about Windows 10's end of
00:33:39
life celebration or um Yeah, I feel like we can look back fondly on that one. Yeah, I love Windows. But when Windows 11 came out, we lost two legendary pieces of software that
00:33:51
had been bundled with Windows previously. Oh no. What were they? You're going to get one
00:33:57
point per piece of software. And one of them has a pretty big asterisk that I'm going to have to say before I get chewed
00:34:03
out by the gamers. Actually, I shouldn't say gamers because it has nothing to do with video games. Is this legendary in the same way that the Cybertruck is
00:34:10
iconic where like it is legendary but people didn't necessarily love it? Would you say? Yeah, I think it's fair to say that both of these pieces of software people did not necessarily love.
00:34:23
Okay. All right. Well, we'll think about this one. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.
00:34:37
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So, just go to shopify.com/wwayformm. Shopify.comwaveform. Welcome back. We got some quick hits for you today. Specifically, one that is potentially exciting for us in the
00:35:43
future. Except it's not, at least for now and probably not in the future, but there's a chance. So, Netflix
00:35:50
Mhm. early next year is bringing 16 video podcasts from Spotify to Netflix. Mhm. They This is Yeah. Yeah. It's been rumored for a
00:36:01
while. There is a There is this point there's there's this ven diagram, right? Where video podcast and talk show,
00:36:11
it's just a circle. So, we're just a talk show, right? Which is what a podcast is when you have video for it,
00:36:18
right? So, Netflix is realizing the popularity of these things. they're getting a lunch
00:36:23
eaten by YouTube and they're like, "Oh, well, we gota, you know, we got to develop original content. That takes a
00:36:28
lot of money and a lot of time. So, instead of original content, we'll just make Love Island number 8,000 in the UK
00:36:35
with dinosaurs." Works every time, you know? So, and now they're like, "Okay, it's going to be a lot easier if
00:36:42
we can just do the easy content like what we make." It sounds like here's how I'm reading this because on the other side of the fence, on the YouTube side of the fence, every time YouTube talks to us about
00:36:53
the growth of YouTube and how YouTube's evolving, one of the things that always comes up is TV watch time. Yeah.
00:36:58
And how much more content is being watched on TVs. And so they're doing all the special features for TVs and having
00:37:04
channel banners designed for TVs, stuff like that. And even this podcast is viewed, I think, by 20% TV viewers,
00:37:13
which is pretty high. I think channel is closer to 10%. So long content, longer videos, people are watching on TVs.
00:37:20
And so YouTube is sort of positioning themselves as like bursting into the TV watch space. So if I'm Netflix, I'm like, that's our zone. Yo, that's that's us. Like what are
00:37:31
people Oh. Oh, it's podcast. All right, let's get some podcasts on here. And they're just going to try it.
00:37:36
And I don't know, it'll probably go okay and they'll see if it works and maybe add some more if it works or or stop doing it if it doesn't work. But it's
00:37:41
kind of how it looks to It's ironic because it's Spotify video podcasts which already have a video element on Spotify.
00:37:47
Yeah. Which is weird by the way. I got sent a podcast on Spotify which I did not like because I don't like mixing my podcast
00:37:53
and my music. I don't like that the algorithm does not know the difference for me. And I was kind of taken aback to see
00:38:00
that it started playing a video in spa in Spotify and apparent they have that now. They keep begging us to do it.
00:38:05
Yeah. You've never seen people beg us to do it. Okay. I've never watched one. Got it. But I started watching one. I was like, "Oh yeah, this is fine, I guess."
00:38:11
But it's a partnership between Spotify and Netflix. So these are Spotify exclusive pod video podcasts
00:38:19
that are being put on Netflix. I guess it's not Spotify exclusive anymore, but part of the contract says that they
00:38:25
can't run the full episode on YouTube specifically, which is similar to like the when Spotify first got Joe Rogan, you could
00:38:31
only do clips on YouTube. They couldn't do it. But likeh this just feels like another reason to
00:38:38
prove why we're still not putting stuff on Spotify cuz just the stuff I mean they didn't offer us this deal.
00:38:43
It was only 16. It's only 16 and I believe all I'm double checking this now. I believe all 16 are owned by Spotify.
00:38:48
Yeah, Spotify Studios. Spotify Studios. So this is just their content acquisition plan. Like they couldn't go
00:38:54
to YouTube and steal podcasts from there and put it on Netflix. So this is the thing that they found that they could acquire to see if it works. To be fair,
00:39:01
they could go on YouTube and steal podcasts and then train their AI models on it. They just couldn't, you know, make AI podcasts.
00:39:07
Who do you think this benefits more, Netflix or Spotify? I don't I don't think I think Netflix.
00:39:13
I don't think it benefits either. It's TVD for Netflix cuz we don't know if Netflix users will respond positively or negatively to it. I guess I think
00:39:20
that Spotify is already set up to develop podcasts. They've been investing in making original podcasts for a very
00:39:26
long time. So, it's easy for them to sort of throw these things together. Netflix makes a lot of original content,
00:39:31
but it's all TV. They don't have the infrastructure as much to just like develop original
00:39:37
podcasts. But for Spotify, Netflix is the infrastructure of being able to play a podcast on your TV because Spotify
00:39:44
doesn't have a way of doing that. So, Spotify doesn't want to put it on YouTube because that's a competitor for video stuff. So, this is just like
00:39:50
more distribution for them. Yeah. I don't know. This feels like when Mixer was like, "Let's get Shroud and
00:39:56
Ninja over here and like just get these huge podcasts and you'll definitely want to come over and watch it and then
00:40:02
nobody watched any of it and they just made a bag." So, sounds like 16 video podcasts are making a bag. Like Netflix
00:40:08
is realizing that they started, you know, with all the videos that they were making and then they started making
00:40:13
original content and that was like their big sellers that they had all these good shows and then slowly all these other streaming platforms popped up and a lot
00:40:19
of these other streaming plers were owned by the TV networks and the cable networks and so they had sort of
00:40:24
existing content that was more like TV content that was not as high quality. So Netflix was like, "Oh, well, we're
00:40:30
getting our lunch eaten by that." they made lower quality content or at least I don't want to say quality but at least
00:40:35
like say probably not easier to produce lower production cost because people yeah people don't always want to be like only watching TV shows
00:40:43
sometimes they want to be using lower cognitive load you know background noise are you saying love island is lower cognitive load yes I am Adam it's more of like cube and like the what
00:40:55
is those what are those shows the the cut or something the cut guys we have done 317 episodes of us
00:41:01
sitting at this table. I don't know if we're the ones that talk about lower cognitive load. Yeah. Well, anyway, I don't know.
00:41:07
YouTube is the biggest streaming platform in the world. So, Netflix is just realizing we have to have feature
00:41:12
parody with the biggest streaming platform in the world. Yeah. On YouTube, users generate the content. On Netflix, oh god, how do we
00:41:18
get the content? Here it is. That reminds me real quick side note. One of my friends was like, "Oh, I just
00:41:24
got a new job." And I said, "What is it?" And she's like, "Oh, I'm making userenerated content." And I was like, "Isn't that just
00:41:30
you're a user content? You're just making content as a user." Isn't that I'm making videos for the
00:41:35
company? And I was like, "Why did they call it usergenerated content? Isn't that just you're a content producer for the company?"
00:41:42
Isn't that the opposite of userenerated content? Yeah, that's I would assume the company wants the users to think it's userenerated
00:41:49
content. Like this person like this person is Well, don't they all do that? Have you
00:41:54
not seen the weird like on threads? Or have you not seen the most recent Samsung campaign that's a bunch of fake
00:41:59
podcast clips that's just one guy being like I just switched from iPhone to Samsung and it's so much easier than I ever would have thought. The podcast guest is like generated content.
00:42:10
Well, it's not always that it's not a real like it's like a vertical podcast clip, you know? Yeah.
00:42:17
Ellis, you just set me up for the greatest segue ever cuz speaking of Samsung. Nice.
00:42:23
Thank you. They were about to uh they have a new event coming up next week, the October
00:42:28
21st. They're going to detail more information about the Project Muhan Android XR headset. We made a video
00:42:35
about this in January. It is now mid to late October. Yeah. What is this more information?
00:42:41
Just a release date, I guess. I suppose price release date. Um, Google, I'm sure, is very excited about
00:42:46
this, but it does seem like interesting timing because Apple has just announced the M5 Vision Pro and so now they're
00:42:54
going to release their Android XR headset, probably running some Snapdragon something.
00:43:00
No, it's going to have the M5. Yeah, if you if you want a refresher on all the things that this headset will
00:43:06
do, just look back at our video in January. We did a demo of like all these Gemini features and all these Android
00:43:12
features. It's like having an Android tablet on your face and all these gestures and eye controls and hand controls. Um, it'll be interesting to
00:43:19
see how they compare. Again, it's like comparing an Android phone to an iPhone is one thing, but comparing an Android headset to an a Vision Pro almost
00:43:27
doesn't make sense. Like, I don't know if anyone's cross shopping those things. Well, and it's ironic because if if Apple can't even figure out anything for
00:43:33
you to do with their version of the headset, then how is Samsung going to like everyone's making the glasses now. Even
00:43:40
Apple is like the rumor right now is that they they put a pause on the lowcost Vision Pro to switch over to
00:43:47
making glasses. So now that Samsung is like uber late to dropping this headset, it feels like
00:43:52
they're just That's my main very late to it. That's my main question looking at this is like Vision Pro has been in the super
00:44:01
zoomed out grand scheme of things kind of a flop. Yeah. Like saleswise, it's not super successful
00:44:07
as far as like users. Like there's not that many people using it every day. Sugarcoated. It's
00:44:13
It's a flop. Yeah. So, Samsung's coming along finally dropping their competitor to it. It's like why
00:44:18
is that are we just just to have a parody with Apple's ecosystem or do you really really believe the headset is the
00:44:25
future or It reminds me of the just all the different hype cycles we've gone through like the metaverse and like all of these
00:44:32
different hype cycles where companies will think, "Okay, we got to invest in this because this is what everyone is
00:44:37
saying the future is." And so, they dump a ton of money and research and development into it. But just like the
00:44:42
Nintendo Switch seems like the Switch 2, Nintendo Switch 2 seems like it was made
00:44:48
for the co era because the whole thing is about the camera and like putting your friends faces and social stuff. It
00:44:55
seems like this was developed when everyone thought, "Okay, Vision Pro might be the future of computing."
00:45:00
And now everyone's like, "Oh, it's actually the glasses." Kind of does feel like no one wants to miss out on the next ship setting sail.
00:45:06
Exactly. It's better throw some money at it. Yeah. It's better to have a flop than it is to miss the miss the wave.
00:45:12
Yeah. Just in case it unflops or something. Yeah. Yeah. This vision this M5 Vision Pro is really
00:45:18
going to take off, guys. It's really Now that they have 10% higher Yeah. pixel rendering.
00:45:24
Pixel rendering. It's definitely going to take off. Speaking of 10% higher pixel rendering.
00:45:29
Wow. This has been an This has been an iconic segue episode. Uh, what about 10? What did you want to say about 10?
00:45:40
Uh, farewell to our friend Windows 10. Ah, I was going to say, but that's what you
00:45:46
say when you don't care that something's going goodbye. And Windows 10 was like part of the cycle of
00:45:52
like good and bad, and it was on the good cycle. Yeah, I think cuz eight was we don't talk about it.
00:45:58
Yeah, eight was Windows 8. They were like, "Wow 8, everything's tiles. Next month, Windows 8.1, everything's Windows
00:46:05
7 again." We really screwed this one up. We didn't do that one, right? Um, but yeah, Microsoft is actually isn't. They officially ended support for Windows 10 this week. 10 years after its
00:46:17
launch, and I mean, obviously, all operating systems do this eventually. 10 years is plenty of time.
00:46:24
Windows 11 has been out for five years. Is that true? It's been out for a little
00:46:30
while if someone wants to find the exact date of that. But um I think when I don't really have that
00:46:36
much against Windows 11 to be honest. Four years. Windows 11 isn't that bad, but Windows 10 was just
00:46:43
better. That's where it was at. Yeah, it was where it was at. So, um what I thought was funny about this is
00:46:48
40% of Windows users today are still using 10. Valve says 30% of all PC gamers are still using Windows 10. Um,
00:46:55
there's a report. One of the big things about this that I think is really interesting is the switch to Windows 11
00:47:02
requires a lot of hardware requirements. So presumably a lot of businesses and enterprise companies using Windows 10 right now probably can't even upgrade to Windows 11. And in the enterprise world,
00:47:15
like people stay on old versions of operating systems for a long time for many reasons. Sometimes it's software,
00:47:22
sometimes it's just they bought a batch of computers and they want to run them till they die. I I worked or just don't want to break any
00:47:27
compatibility with stuff like government, they just run the same stuff forever. Yeah. I worked at a company in like 2015 and
00:47:35
we were still using Windows XP on like 20% of the computers we had in the office. Yeah. I feel like XP was pretty famous
00:47:41
for that. Like there are so many old enterpris that just runs XP and it's bulletproof and it's just never going to
00:47:46
break. And it was the greatest operating system. Yeah. Ever made was pretty skinny about it.
00:47:52
I told you guys this. I skinned my XP to look like Vista cuz Vista looked good but at least at
00:47:59
the time it looked kind of cool. This is like liquid glass of 2000 whatever it was. It kind of looked cool
00:48:05
but I still had I did not have the required GPU and RAM to upgrade to Vista. So, I got a skin that I might
00:48:12
have done a video about this that made it I definitely did a video about this. Made XP look like Vista and it was not a
00:48:19
good idea. Remember, it took a ton of system resources, but it looked like Vista.
00:48:24
Remember when Microsoft launched Vista and they had the big party and they had like the the casket with like RIP to
00:48:30
Apple? It was like Apple's funeral. Yeah. And it was when they launched I missed that. Vista.
00:48:35
Jesus. It was like uhoh. Don't you guys know about the cycle those cards wrong? Yeah, the cycle wasn't established at that point. Yeah, it was still early. It was still early. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of was this was at the
00:48:47
start of the cycle. It felt like maybe the start, but cuz Windows 2000 was solid
00:48:53
and 2000 was right before XP. So XP was the was goated and then it went bad with seven. No, seven was good.
00:48:58
Sorry. Bad with Vista, good with seven, bad with eight. Yeah, that's true. That was kind of the beginning. Good with 8.1. Wow. Bad with 10.
00:49:05
Well, yeah. Uh so they will be offering uh it's weird they like closed it but they're going to be offering it's this is very confusing another year of security support for a payment for some
00:49:17
people um also not only enterprises usually it was only enterprises that could do this but it seems like they're offering it to some users and it's kind
00:49:25
of confusing. You can get a year of extended support for $61. Europe fought this and it has to be for free I
00:49:31
believe. Also, in the US, you have to um download something called Windows Backup, and you do not have to in
00:49:37
Europe. And then there's I'm pretty sure you can um do it for 3 years with like compounding payments on top of it if you want to continue to use, which a lot of these enterprises
00:49:49
are probably going to have to do because that's still cheaper than upgrading computers. Um but what I found the most
00:49:55
interesting is I looked at the market. We are going to talk about percentages. Um, I was just looking at a couple of like who what versions of Windows are still being used. Apparently 9% of
00:50:07
Windows desktop users are still on Windows 7. 3% are still on Windows XP. There you go.
00:50:12
3 sounds really small, but that is still thousands of people. What I want to know
00:50:17
is half a percent of people are on Windows 8. Is are you guys okay? Who is still on Windows 8? Yeah. What if your your computer can't run Windows 10?
00:50:31
Why'd you go to Windows 8? What? What if you had bought a computer? A Windows 8 computer like a Surface or
00:50:37
I worked at a recording studio that we could not upgrade to Windows 10 specifically because the motherboard we
00:50:44
had we had a beefcake PC totally specked out, but the motherboard wasn't compatible with Windows 10. I'm
00:50:51
interested in how many I mean I know this is still thing but Windows 10 released in 2015 so presumably the
00:50:58
computer has to be at least 10 years old and running Windows 8 I'm it would have to be a beef of a computer in 2015
00:51:09
at like the latest to still be running I'm sure it's out there but I remember the conversation at this
00:51:15
recording studio where it was like we have a $10,000 computer that that is totally fine that is now unsupported
00:51:23
specifically because the random motherboard manufacturer we went with uh I don't remember who made it but
00:51:29
I have to assume some of these are also like the computer that runs the security camera system.
00:51:34
Yeah, I worked at a hospital years ago that was using XPS because everything there like it's not even that the
00:51:41
hardware isn't compatible is that the data is so sensitive that they don't want to do anything to lose it. So you
00:51:46
can't like mess with it in any way unless you want to invest heavily in transferring it and backing it up and
00:51:52
doing that whole thing. Also very funny that the data is so sensitive they're using something that hasn't had a security update. And
00:51:57
you'd be surprised how much sensitive data is just sitting on a old it's probably also like locally or something.
00:52:03
Sometimes it's that or it's like this piece of hardware, this X-ray machine or this robot only works with this software
00:52:11
on this OS. my hostelbod flex tight scanner. I had to buy a 200 2007 Mac Pro to run it because it only runs up to High Sierra. So, it's airgapped. I will never connect
00:52:23
it to the internet. It's funny. I was going to mention this and I guess I might as well. My my home computer is a 2017 Intel iMac Pro and I
00:52:31
went to go update it to Tahoe this past weekend and it's not supported and I'm like, I guess I have to buy a new computer. I mean, I don't have to. I
00:52:41
could keep using You really want Tahoe on it? Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I'm experiencing the same thing at home
00:52:47
with my aka your old 2017 Intel Mac Pro. And, uh, it's funny. I was up very late last night compiling binaries for Intel
00:52:57
architecture, trying to get various add-ons and stuff to work, and it's over. The dream is dead. I might have to go pop in an Apple store. I'm glad I quit that company.
00:53:09
Now that we've said this, I want to hear all the extremely niche scenarios that some of our audience might be using. An
00:53:15
old version, unsupported computer. My toothbrush runs on Windows XP. Sick toothbrush. It's also 25 years old. Tooth tunes. Tooth tunes, baby.
00:53:26
Um, but yeah, I, you know, we say goodbye to Windows 10, but in 10 years when we're still talking about Windows
00:53:32
market share, and there's a 0.5% of Windows 10 users, it's going to happen. We know you're out
00:53:38
there. Um, funny enough, Windows also said posted a teaser tweet yesterday or today. Yesterday, which will it says, "Your hands are about to get some PTO waving emoji. Time to rest those
00:53:50
fingers. Something big is coming Thursday." Emoji. It's voice. It's something. It's got to
00:53:55
be something AI related. Yeah, it's probably you can talk to your computer. But what are the chances it's Clippy?
00:54:01
No. Not zero. Never zero. It's never zero. That would be cool. I feel like there's
00:54:07
got to be a reason they're not bringing Clippy back. Is there like a weird copyright or like trademark thing that they lost her
00:54:14
hates him? No. No, but we hate him so much we want him back. Easy to make fun of. Literally,
00:54:20
but it's got to it's endearing. Could instead of co-pilot, they could have just done Clippy and everyone would
00:54:25
have loved it. It could have been awful and we would have been like, "Yeah, but it's Clippy. It's Clippy. Give him a chance."
00:54:30
He was bad originally, too. He's got a face. It's just nostalgia. He was always bad. Yeah. Yeah. Clippy was always pretty.
00:54:38
Like if I got AI questions that were wrong, but it was Clippy, I'd be like, "Ah, you'll get them next time, pal."
00:54:43
Exactly. Maybe that's the key. Anthropomorphizing your bad AI is the key to making it accepted by regular
00:54:50
people. Sort of. Yeah. I mean, the problem before was that it was Cortana and then you're like, "Oh, dumb computer woman."
00:54:56
Yeah. Which you can't do. That's bad. But Clippy, but now it was just a friendly smiling face and
00:55:01
it would pop up and it would be seems like and it'd be like, "No, get away. You're wrong." But you would gently move it away cuz you didn't want to.
00:55:08
And now co-pilot is just this like ever. Ellis, I feel like you would know this answer. Was Cortana a direct reference to Halo? Yeah, it was the same character.
00:55:20
She was just annoying in the game. So like always I don't want I just want to go mess
00:55:26
around on the map. I don't want to listen to what I have to actually do right now. Now Clippy, how you've seen that?
00:55:32
No, I haven't seen it actually. I'm referencing a movie I haven't seen. I was like slow burn movie. I would be
00:55:38
very surprised. The movie is so long it has an intermission. Yeah. Oh, it does. Yeah, it does. How long is it? How long is a movie with
00:55:45
an intermission? The intro is like 8 minutes of just like gorillas dancing. Wa. And I definitely have not seen this movie. You would really like it. I mean, I love
00:55:55
I know it's only 2 and 1/2 hours. Yeah, but it came out in it came out in 60 days. Two and a half hours back then
00:56:01
was a long time. VHS. Yeah. Remember every '90s movie was exactly 90 minutes. Fair enough. Anyway, speaking of 10, we got one more 10 to talk about, but that
00:56:11
will be after the break. Oh, that's kind of you, Marquez. Yeah, it'll be a folding 10.
00:56:16
Oh, I could fold. But before that, trivia. Trivia, dude. Said I could fold. Yeah, cuz I thought you were I thought you were saying I was a 10.
00:56:28
Oh, I get it. You said I've got one more 10 to talk about. I said, thank you. God, I totally missed that. Well,
00:56:33
earlier we spoke about Xiaomi. What is the mascot for Xiai? I will accept one point for what it is and another point if you got its names, which you won't get. So
00:56:44
the money's Xiaomi has a mascot. I think I've seen this. I was just in China and there were Xiaomi cars everywhere and I saw the mascot. You know what it is.
00:56:55
All right. Or is that the Poco? Never mind. Well, this the animal you're thinking of is a mascot for a lot of
00:57:02
things, but I don't know if it's Xiaomi's mascot. We'll see. It might be. Well, we'll guess like we usually do at
00:57:08
the end. We'll be right back. Support for this show comes from LinkedIn. When you're a small business owner, your business is on your mind 24/7. So, when you're hiring, you need a
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That's linkedin.com/mkbhd to post your job for free. Terms, conditions apply. Support for this show comes from Framer.
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may apply. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the last 10 thing and that is
01:00:16
unfortunately the Pixel 10 Pro Fold is back in the news cuz Zach got his hands on one. Did you guys see what happened
01:00:23
to the Pixel 10 Pro Fold in Zach's test? Got fiery. So, yeah, it exploded. Okay, so here's
01:00:31
what happened. He's tested the Pixel Folds before and they kind of have failed, not kind of, they failed his durability test, which is just bending
01:00:37
it in half and snapping the frame at the antenna lines and lighting the screen on fire and carving up with, you know,
01:00:43
putting a bunch of dust in the hinge and stuff like that. Uh, but this one, he somehow punctured the battery during his fold as
01:00:50
well. I'm not even sure exactly how it happened. The ne things because of where the antenna line is, which has been the
01:00:55
fault spot of the last couple folds, um, which they haven't changed basically where the battery is, where
01:01:01
that part cuz it didn't crack at the hinge, which is very impressive for the hinge, I feel like. But to the hinges,
01:01:07
the hinge is always there. But where the antenna line was, he thinks it was right around the edge of the battery to where the layers of what the battery are probably pinched
01:01:18
together. We're at the side where all of them are. And that caused a short. Yeah, thermal runaway
01:01:23
theory. That's a good theory. No matter what, it's still crazy. Uh I don't even know that this this is
01:01:29
obviously a one-off. Like most people aren't treating their phones like Zach is. So I don't know how much this matters for Google PR. It's obviously
01:01:38
not great. I I guess it's more chance. It doesn't seem like it's one of those things that it's like a, oh, this is a fault in the
01:01:43
phone. It's going to do this all the time. And yeah, it's like Google's going to watch that video and be like, oh wow, one of our phones exploded. Let's see what
01:01:49
happened. and they're going to get nine minutes into him like it's like yeah oh he he's he's trying to do this so yeah
01:01:56
obviously no phone has ever done that uh in his test before but it did look pretty bad on camera and it it did
01:02:02
explode that's like you said I I doubt this actually happens but also he's done it to how many phones at this point
01:02:09
like that was kind of weird there was a couple other things from the video I thought were interesting though the um the kind of like hidden camera it's not
01:02:16
really a camera but the sensor next to the selfie sensor was kind of cool. But when he kind of like pushed it with his knife, you could see it bowing in like it has the the camera cut out. Um
01:02:33
the hinge with the cuz he did dust resistance which was really extreme cuz this is the first dust resistant
01:02:39
sand phone. I think it was like gravel. Yeah, it sounded real bad. It was a lot. But I think it's fair to say that if some gravel gets into the hinge, the rest of the video it sounded
01:02:50
crunchy, which is the last thing you'd ever want with a folding phone. Yeah. Um, and then the other thing I have is
01:02:57
just uh Did you see the microphone hole? Yeah. It's kind of like the hole on the bottom
01:03:03
is not the actual microphone. It is a a like cylindrical hole that goes in and then the microphone's on the inside wall
01:03:10
of that. I guess potentially enough people were sticking the SIM tray ejector tool into the microphone and
01:03:16
damaging it. So now the microphone is kind of off to the side. It's clever. Oh yeah, we've all done it. Um my
01:03:23
question to Ellis, and I don't know if he saw it, is wouldn't that potentially mess up how sound is getting into the microphone?
01:03:31
Maybe a little. Now that it's not just right at the end of the Did I'm assuming you didn't see it. You should hear my
01:03:36
I just I just I just powerwatched the video of where it explodes. But you're saying like because the mic is recessed
01:03:42
into the case rather than being if like the case is flat and the microphone's right at the bottom of it now there's a indentation
01:03:49
that goes and it's inside of that. So presumably sound goes into a cylinder now and goes into the side of the
01:03:55
microphone. I guess it's a phone call and no one really cares. There's also like it's there's there's
01:04:00
actually reasons that could make things better. You know what I mean? There's also probably like five mics on
01:04:06
this phone, right? Yeah. I have no idea. Typically, yeah, I think a lot of smartphones have like two, three, four
01:04:13
mics and then they are combining and that's the one at the bottom of the phone. So, it's just usually for phone calls and it's hearing your voice.
01:04:19
Let me let me raise you this one. Okay. Like one of the most iconic mics of all time, the SM57.
01:04:25
The sound goes in the top, but if you speak from the back, you can't hear it. It's like the cardioid pattern, right?
01:04:30
The way they achieve that is there's actually holes on the side of the mic. So that if you're pointing it at your
01:04:36
face, it goes in that the face hole side first and then the stuff from the back goes in, you know, a little bit later because sound has like a speed, right? And it goes in jets in just enough later
01:04:48
and bounces around all these sort of cavities that it hits it and actually like cancels out the sound
01:04:53
coming from behind because of that temporal difference. There's a lot of there's a lot of funky tricks you can do with like distance and tubes and stuff
01:05:00
like that. So, I don't feel qualified to say whether this is good or bad. I think you're qualified.
01:05:06
It doesn't matter cuz no one's poking it anymore. Yeah. Safe up there. True. I have poked microphone hole. Have you really? Yeah, but I'm also someone who ejects
01:05:17
SIM cards way more than the usual person. So, I may just have you wouldn't do it.
01:05:22
Well, I have a larger sample size and maybe there's just every actually there's been some phones where the it's
01:05:28
not going to I have none of these phones have sim card trays, but it's been like the eject port for the SIM card tray is
01:05:35
right next to a single port where the microphone also is and it's very easy to yeah accidentally
01:05:41
do one or the other. Or you can just be like me, use your phone in the shower way too much and destroy the microphone that way.
01:05:47
That'll do it. Especially if it's not water resistant. Well, even when it is now when I now when I leave a voice
01:05:54
note, it just goes. It's like the fresh dub. Yeah, that is tough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, durability tests are one thing on the internet. And I don't think this
01:06:04
means if you have a Pixel Profile that it is likely to explode in any way. But if another one explodes, maybe we'll be
01:06:10
back here next week talking about that. Yeah. It's fun to watch. This was a one-off thing because of some
01:06:17
freak accident when he was folding it. Or do you think if he took that fold like a different 10 pro fold and folded
01:06:23
it again in the same way? Do you think it'll happen again? Like is it a flaw in that way or is it
01:06:28
just like a it happened randomly? Just where the pressure got put? And it was also it wasn't on the initial snap. It was when he was then bending it again after to kind of like straighten
01:06:40
it out and do more. That's when it started going off. So like, yeah, he thinks it's because it
01:06:46
just like perfectly at the edge of the battery crimped the edge, which then makes touches of all the different
01:06:51
layers and then shorts it. So I think the potential's there. The potential probably was there almost just
01:06:57
as much on past ones. Or maybe just the 10, the battery edge and the antenna line are like almost identical. So where it snapped, it got that perfect side of the battery.
01:07:08
I don't know. Don't play with batteries like that. for the most part there that's there's always a great chance that could happen.
01:07:13
Yeah. The way I said on Twitter is it's both it's simultaneously very unlucky and very lucky. It was very unlucky to
01:07:19
have like the battery thermal runaway like that and very lucky that it wasn't worse and didn't like burn anything.
01:07:25
Yeah. Did you catch I think he they have his cuz his audio is not live but I'm pretty sure he said freaking heck there.
01:07:30
And I was like good job Zach for keeping this family friendly in the process of a phone almost catching on fire in front
01:07:36
of you. Yeah. If that happened, I' I'd just leave the room. He was like, which is what you should probably burn
01:07:42
down. It's possible. It's possible. I would cover not be in the house. Yes. Cover it with a bunch of different If I can't see it, it's not happening. Cover with other batteries from around.
01:07:54
That's how I usually live my life. All I know is that battery thermal runaway is
01:07:59
like you can't reach into the battery and stop it from happening. That reaction is going to take its course. You can't smother the oxygen away.
01:08:06
is either all this lights anything else on fire. Put that fire out, but the battery is going to do its thing. Once it starts, it's just going to get to the end of that
01:08:17
press. One time I had an electrical fire and I just threw it in my sink. That's probably fine. Yeah. Just wait. Just like a metal box. Yeah. True. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:28
This is not financial advice. This is not financial. Call the fire department. Don't buy the $2 soldering iron. I
01:08:34
learned the hard way. That's good advice. It will catch on fire. That is good advice. All right, last little thing before we
01:08:40
take it to trivia. Um, Honor just dropped one of the weirdest concept phones that we've seen in a long time. We've seen a lot of weird concept
01:08:46
phones. I'm looking at this. Yeah. If you know what a like a DJI Osmo Pocket looks like. It's sort of this
01:08:52
little camera that you can run around with. It's very compact, but it has a gimbal camera on the front, which means
01:08:58
that it's like hyperstabilized. It can it can pivot on different axes. And this phone has it built in as one of its main
01:09:05
camera sensors, which is crazy. So the the camera like flips around the top of the phone and then it's basically on a
01:09:12
gimbal. Is this a good idea? I think it's a cool idea. It's hidden in the plateau where
01:09:17
presumably it is the main sensor and then the name it slides over and then comes out from
01:09:23
the plateau. Yeah. Like and then can pop up as a selfie camera and looks like it does. I
01:09:28
mean Yeah. Yeah, if you don't know what the Osmo is, it's it's pretty much the camera on every DJI drone, like Mavic
01:09:35
and everything, but on a little stick. So, imagine a drone camera. Yeah, the Osmo Pocket is one of the most
01:09:41
popular sort of just like quick run and gun YouTube cameras right now. Every single person at every single tech event
01:09:48
has one of these. Shot on one. The colors are amazing. I've heard that it's great.
01:09:54
Good ass. Well, so this is what I'm saying and I I think that this is why they are making this concept phone is
01:10:00
that instead of people just using their phone because the sensor is about the same size, people are still using this Osmo camera
01:10:07
instead. So I think that they're thinking what if we could put the Osmo in the phone. You know what's funny? I'm
01:10:12
the more I think about this like I have seen phones for years try alternative selfie camera. remember like this must
01:10:19
have been like 10 years ago like the Oppo N3 maybe it was which had a swiveing selfie camera. No. Uh I thought no find the Findex was
01:10:30
the one that comes up the first too. We've seen like motorized shark fin. We've seen all kinds of them.
01:10:36
A Zen phone that did the flip up. Yeah. Yeah. The Zen phone 6. It flipped from the back. So you had the back cameras
01:10:43
turned into the selfie camera. The Oppo N3 is what I'm referencing, which is a similar thing. It's swiveled the back
01:10:49
camera around to be a selfie camera. So, once you get that extreme, you start thinking about what if you could also
01:10:56
build in like bigger optics and like stabilization in a gimbal and all that and probably software on the phone to
01:11:02
like motoriz around and and get Yeah. cool shots. I mean, if you remember the LG Wing
01:11:08
Yep. Yeah. You remember the LG Wing? Of course, I remember. that had the gimbal software camera thing where it
01:11:14
cropped into the sensor and it kind of felt like a gimbal that was kind of floating around. It was a real gimbal. Was it?
01:11:19
Well, this one. Yeah, this one's real. Yeah. I don't know. I think this is cool. I think that they see a market
01:11:24
that has developed and they think, why don't I I thought the point was that people were supposed to shoot with their phones and yet people are still buying
01:11:31
these DJ Osmo Pockets. So, what if you just made it the same thing? I I feel like my argument with that would be the Pocket is really good at
01:11:38
capturing like a ton of stuff. Like even one of the scenarios they have here is the phone is in their chest pocket with
01:11:44
the little gimbal pointing up which is Yeah. kind of or Yeah. Like something you can capture all the time and like
01:11:50
something you're doing which for the Osmo they always talk about like connected to a backpack strap so you can do it while you're hiking where
01:11:56
the pocket makes or the Osmo makes more sense because now I can still use my phone on the side. Like if I'm going to
01:12:02
a convention and I want to do me on the show floor filming everything, I probably still want to use my phone
01:12:07
where this now your phone is what this this would look theoretically better. But you can't use your phone now cuz it's the thing capturing all of the content. I guess that's my argument on
01:12:18
why I want a side thing with replaceable batteries and not killing my phone's battery. Alternatively, you just buy this as a
01:12:24
camera and then you have an Android interface which you can edit on and you can upload from it and cellular. The whole thing is like
01:12:30
its own little contained device and you can still have a separate phone. I think I'm in on it. This also just highlights to me how we
01:12:38
have literally no competition in the United States. Just think of what we This is a concept. This is a concept. That's like this is a
01:12:45
good idea. If the tech can be shrunken down and the gimbal can actually be good in a package so small it fits inside the
01:12:52
camera plateau of your phone. That's the big if. And they can probably build a one-off and it'll be a cool concept for
01:12:58
Xiaomi. They've they've all done really weird stuff. I feel like they could do this. I will believe it when I see it. This is
01:13:04
a perfect example of I'll believe it when I see it. I'm trying to imagine how thick the Osmo Pocket is and if I think that can get
01:13:09
into a reasonably sized phone and I don't think it's possible. Even if you'll believe it when you see it, we we don't have any US
01:13:15
manufacturers out here that are just like messing around with this cuz we have no competition. Yeah. So,
01:13:21
I want to see it. Yeah. I want to believe it. Yeah. I want to believe. I feel like all the competition over on this side is
01:13:28
software now. It's all ecosystem lockin based. Unfortunately, they're not really experimenting with hardware like this.
01:13:34
Yeah, that is true. Well, I'm rooting for the Wall-E phone and shitification, baby. Wall-E phone.
01:13:39
All right. Well, I think with that, uh, we should do a little trivia, dude. That's right. Nicely done.
01:13:53
Trivia. Castile board. Oh yeah, guys. When we switched to Windows 11, we lost two legendary pieces of Windows software. And they're
01:14:05
not lost. They're just not bundled anymore. And one of them has a pretty big asterisk.
01:14:11
What were they? [Music] We got to find something new to fill this gap with. I like the the pensive thoughtfulness.
01:14:31
It's not new. Just starts freestyling over. All right. All right, boys. I'm going to be so mad when I hear this cuz What do my Oh my god. All right, David.
01:14:43
I said DirectX. Okay. And I also said paint 3D. Oh. Huh? Yeah, cuz remember when Windows AR was going to be a thing in 2015 and then it wasn't
01:14:55
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Jesus. And they made Paint 3D. That happened. Yeah. All right. I just said Mind Sweeper. I put Mind Sweeper as well. Uh, and I put Internet Explorer.
01:15:07
Oh, cuz Internet Explorer was one of them. That was the one with the asterisk, though. Cuz Edge Oh,
01:15:12
because Edge has an Internet Explorer mode. And technically technically Internet Explorer is bundled with Windows 11. It is just hidden from user
01:15:24
view. If you have an application that is specifically written to open Internet Explorer, it will still open it.
01:15:32
But you yourself as the user cannot open Internet Explorer. The other one was pinball. Space pinball. Skype. Oh, cuz they killed Sky because they replaced it with T.
01:15:47
Yikes. Yeah. What? H Oh, how far they fall. Marquez after that correct answer with
01:15:53
seven. Andrew with nine. Still in the lead. David with one, two, Harry. The one. Five. It's my turn to feel the pain. Wow. Okay. Question. Not bad. It's not
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bad. Bunch of prime numbers. Oh, just kidding. Never mind. What was or what is Xiaomi's mascot? One
01:16:12
point for the name. One point for the thing itself. Show me the money. Show me the money. It's a pile of cash.
01:16:18
Ellis will now freestyle over this break. No. No, I won't. I won't. Maybe. Maybe one day. Maybe. But not today. What if I drop a beat underneath this?
01:16:32
Well, I would I rap about Xiai. Xiaomi. Xiaomi. Xiaomi. Xiao. Shiao. Xiaomi. All right. You guys know Xiaomi makes cars, right? Uhoh. SU7
01:16:44
read. What do we got? Okay. Oh my god. Uh, I said a red panda and that's totally fine. I'm glad I wrote it anyway. And I said it name was
01:16:57
Clippy. Good guess. And by that I mean terrible guess. I just wrote a car. I think someone made a joke about that and then I like thought I actually remembered hearing something similar.
01:17:10
Okay. And then I just wrote it name was Xiai. Not a bad guess. I put a cat, but I was thinking of real
01:17:15
meow. Yeah, you're thinking of real me. Yeah, real meow was the name. Okay. What'd you get for the name?
01:17:20
Hyper cat. That's a good guess. But no, this is this like We've talked about this before, haven't we? I feel like we might have at some point. Or it might have been what David said. The cat thing.
01:17:32
What is it? It was something like that. The actual mascot was named Meu. M I TU. And it is
01:17:39
a white rabbit. Me too. Yeah. Like a copycat, but it's a rabbit. Yeah, I can do that, too. Apple, the irony is crazy with that one.
01:17:51
Oh, he's kind of cute. Yeah, he's kind of cute. So, no one gets a point here. Unfortunately, it's not like the creepy rabbits with the red eyes.
01:17:57
I always think like Velvetine Rabbit. Velvetine? Yeah. It's a book. No, it's an really weird old book, but like Yeah. Redeyed Rabbit.
01:18:09
Some of us read children's books from the 30s. It is a good night weird book. Well, that's what happens when you don't know the trivia answers. Y'all learned something and I'm glad we learned
01:18:21
something today. Other than that, that was a fun episode. We'll be back, of course, with more regularly scheduled
01:18:26
programming soon. If you haven't already seen it, go check out the Adams interview where we talked to him about all things Instagram and the creator
01:18:32
economy, etc., etc. Other than that, see you next week. Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roen. We're part
01:18:38
of the Vox Media Podcast Network and Entertain Sil in the olden days back in the late 1900s. The olden that's 20 years ago.