00:00:00
460 4 >> 460 what the Mark 60 Yeah. Remember they went up >> they went up in price this year 460.
00:00:08
>> Yeah. They're hella expensive >> for headphones that sound like the music
00:00:12
is coming out of a bee's hole. >> I remember when they were like 330 then
00:00:18
they were for that. >> That is not what they sound like. >> Not bad. That's like the engine.
00:00:27
>> Yeah. Like Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the
00:00:37
Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez. >> I'm Andrew.
00:00:40
>> I'm David. >> And welcome to TechTember. Everything is happening. Wait a second. Hold on.
00:00:46
>> Oh, >> it's it's TAR. >> Hold on. Tar. >> It's March. It's not.
00:00:49
>> It's Tar. >> Sho's been trying to get Tar going. >> Tech. The start of Tar.
00:00:54
>> We don't claim Tar. I don't know what you're talking about.
00:00:56
>> Mech. No, >> I don't like >> it's like Christmas in July, but
00:01:01
September and March. >> Yeah, it's it's a lot. We've got So, we're working on the S26 Ultra review
00:01:07
and then Apple drops six new products. Nothing drops three new products and suddenly we just have a lot on our
00:01:13
plate. And also, we got to talk a little bit more about AI and how it's affecting
00:01:16
reviews. So, this might be a six-hour episode is what I'm trying to say. And
00:01:20
we're shooting >> because it's Thursday. >> We're shooting it on Thursday, too.
00:01:23
>> Don't threaten me with a good time like >> uh Yeah. Make sure you get subscribed
00:01:27
because we have a lot to talk about. So, if we don't get to all of it this week,
00:01:30
we'll probably get to more of it next week. >> Yeah. >> But first,
00:01:34
I'm just going to take it in. >> Did they even test this? Apparently, this has already gone outside of this
00:01:39
room and Olivia has something she wanted to add. So, Adam will be her >> surrogate.
00:01:45
>> Surrogate, right? >> Yeah. Olivia and Michael were doing graphics for us because we asked for
00:01:52
specific graphics for the channel. You might actually be seeing them on this episode. So YouTube viewers, let me know
00:01:57
how uh how you like them. >> Is this something the thing that happened yesterday?
00:02:00
>> Yes. >> It's so they've been working with an app called Apple Motion, which is their
00:02:07
version of After Effects because they were like, you know, the team kind of works in Final Cut. Yeah. Marquez is
00:02:12
like >> like you could call it that. >> That's what they want. >> They they're doing this for our benefit
00:02:18
because we work in Final Cut mostly. And they're like, you know what? All our
00:02:21
graphics we make in After Effects. Let's see if we can like learn this other
00:02:24
program. it'll be easy to drop drag and drop into Final Cut like it'll be
00:02:28
simple. >> Uh Olivia ran into this weird problem where she had this template that it was
00:02:34
popping like a speck up on the screen and then she would go do other things, come back and it would just be like
00:02:39
slightly off to the right. And she's like, "This is so weird." And she's like
00:02:44
working on this for like the past week and every time she has to keep moving it back. She's like, "Why does this keep
00:02:48
happening?" Then she like talks to Michael about it and Michael's like, "I
00:02:51
figured it out. What happens is every time she hits save, it increments the X position by one.
00:02:57
>> What? >> Yeah. So it she hasn't set it at zero and app. >> No. And so the solution they came came
00:03:06
up with is she just has to remember every time she hits command S to move that asset to -1 on the X-axis and then
00:03:13
when it saves it reverts to zero. >> What the heck? >> That's real. That's not so funny.
00:03:18
>> It's so fast that that makes me not trust computers. I feel like if in
00:03:21
Microsoft Word every time you hit save it added a dash to wherever your cursor is.
00:03:26
>> It makes me afraid to save which is the one thing I should not be afraid to do.
00:03:31
>> Is motion does motion have not autosave like Final Cut? >> I do not know. I I should cuz that might
00:03:36
be a habit you can drop by switching to motion. I remember when I had I was in Premiere, I would automatically save
00:03:42
every time I could because it if it crashed, it would just forget everything I did for the last 12 minutes. But when
00:03:47
I switched to Final Cut Pro, it could crash and I would bring it back and it would remember. It would actually start
00:03:54
trying to do the thing that made it crash again. Like it was that recent of a memory.
00:03:58
>> Oh my god. >> So I wonder if the move is to stop commands and and
00:04:02
>> stop saving. Maybe I'll I'll ask her. I'll see if that's a little life hack.
00:04:05
>> Super weird, >> bro. Just tell Claude to oneshot this app. >> One shot Apple Motion.
00:04:10
>> We don't need Apple software. We can just make it. I wonder if it's a weird
00:04:15
>> shortcut thing that's happening. I don't know that that's so I can't believe
00:04:19
Michael found it out. That's really impressive. But >> yeah, well, he's he's an After Effects
00:04:23
guy, so he's command SL. >> Now when she does want to move it one, she'll just be like command SS SS
00:04:28
like 10 spaces over. >> At least she's saving it and making sure it doesn't crash. I have a great segue
00:04:33
because the the video that Apple played for the beginning of their event and that's now on their YouTube channel was
00:04:39
really really good which is why I'm so sure they didn't use motion. >> So good.
00:04:44
>> It was it's really good. >> It's really good. >> So Apple dropped a little uh we we'd had
00:04:50
a week-long event. Oh, I guess we haven't talked about any of this. So we had Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.
00:04:54
>> Yeah. >> Monday we got iPhone 17e if I'm remembering correctly. Tuesday we got
00:05:00
MacBook Pro, M5 Pro, M5 Max. >> Oh, Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. >> And Studio Display and Studio Display
00:05:07
XDR. >> Monday we also got iPad Air with M4, too. >> Oh, I forgot about those.
00:05:12
>> Yeah. I mean, >> it's been a week. >> Yeah. >> And there's new cross body strap colors.
00:05:16
>> Two of them. >> Cool. >> Uh, yeah. And then we also got the S.
00:05:20
And then Wednesday, we got the >> And then Wednesday, we got MacBook Air. >> Oh, wait. Tuesday, we also got the M5
00:05:25
MacBook Air. >> Oh, did we? Yes, >> I know. Yeah, the things that just got
00:05:30
spec bumps are obviously less interesting. >> Yeah, I feel like we can skip those
00:05:34
pretty quick. M5, MacBook Air. It's the MacBook Air, but with M5. >> Yeah.
00:05:38
>> And Wi-Fi 7. Okay. >> Well, there's other things. >> Oh,
00:05:42
>> okay. Never mind. >> I mean, it's mostly just like they started at 512 gigs of base storage now.
00:05:47
That's pretty awesome. And it goes up to 4 tab instead of two. >> 2x faster read and write speeds, which
00:05:52
is pretty awesome. Supports Wi-Fi 7 and Bluetooth 6. $100 more expensive than the base M4 Air. Um, so that's not
00:06:00
great, but uh, but at least it starts at double the storage. >> Can I Well, sorry. And you may have kind
00:06:06
of answered that, but I'm I missed it. >> Okay. >> It's 512 base storage, but the price has
00:06:11
gone up. Yes. >> Is it the same price as the old 512 >> base? So, it is more expensive than the
00:06:17
baseline M4, but for the same storage tier, it's actually $100 cheaper than you would have gotten on the M4 MacBook
00:06:23
Air. Good. >> So, it is like a better deal. And for a lot of people, the MacBook Air is going
00:06:26
to be the better option anyway, which we will get to the the Neo in a bit. >> Mhm.
00:06:31
>> Um, but yeah, and then like you said, M5 Pro and M5 Max, MacBook Pros, that's
00:06:35
kind of a big deal because we didn't have M5 Pro or M5 Max of anything yet, >> right? So,
00:06:41
>> those are going to be way better for AI tasks, etc. Um, they also have video
00:06:46
editing, >> video editing. They have way better GPU, uh, 4x peak GPU compared to M4 Max,
00:06:52
which is pretty insane. Where's the M5 Ultra, man? >> I know. Even for Yeah, they don't love
00:06:57
the Ultras. They've only released a couple of those. >> Only three Ultra so far.
00:07:00
>> Yeah. Uh up to 614 g gigabytes per second. Uh up to 128 GB of unified memory in the M5 Max. Pretty crazy
00:07:10
stuff. It's ironic that they're releasing these now because people again
00:07:13
were saying that in November or so they're going to release the M6 series because of the touchscreen MacBooks that
00:07:19
are going to come out. >> Yeah. Um, but it was funny how everyone was speculating that these were going to
00:07:23
be the touchscreen MacBooks because of the animation that they released, which was like the pinching of the Apple logo.
00:07:29
>> Yeah, that was funny. >> Yeah. And I just went on a tirade on Twitter being like, "No, it's the cheap
00:07:33
one. It's the cheap one." >> Also, they started a terabyte now, which
00:07:36
makes me feel kind of old because a laptop starting at a terabyte storage is >> That used to be the top tier model.
00:07:43
>> Yeah. That used to be like you could get a terabyte. Now it's you have to start
00:07:47
at a terabyte. Yeah, that's that's wild to me. >> Uh, do you want to talk about the
00:07:50
displays >> on the M5s? >> Uh, no. >> MacBook Pros. Oh, the Pro.
00:07:55
Yeah. Okay. So, two new displays. They have a new studio display and a new studio display XDR, which is uh fancy
00:08:03
and has sparkles around it. Uh, so no, >> it is a new technology. >> The new studio display is a little
00:08:09
underwhelming. It's still like $1,600. It's still 60 Hz. I think essentially
00:08:13
what they did was add a Thunderbolt port and it's Yeah, they didn't really do a
00:08:18
whole lot else to it, but >> yeah, >> the Studio Display XDR replaces the Pro
00:08:22
Display XDR. >> Yeah. >> And it's significantly cheaper. >> And here's the difference. So,
00:08:28
>> that's a really nice way of putting it's 35 or $3,200. >> Yeah. Instead of $5,000.
00:08:34
>> No, this is a Well, okay. Okay. So, this is a thing that happens with Apple a
00:08:36
lot, which is we go, "Look how much better it is than last time." Because
00:08:39
last time was like horribly overpriced or something. >> What we're going to do with the 17e as
00:08:43
well. >> Yeah, exactly. So, it's like the Pro display was $5,000 plus $1,000 stand and
00:08:48
$1,000 nano texture. So, yeah, this is significantly cheaper, but this is also a better display in just about every
00:08:53
single way. The only thing that I will miss when I inevitably get two of these is 6K and 32 in because these are both
00:09:02
now 5K 27in displays >> but they are I think now 2,000 nits peak brightness. They're miniLEDD instead of
00:09:09
the backlight in uh the Pro displays which I think is just a bunch of backlight zones instead of miniLEDD. Um,
00:09:17
so yeah, 5K 27 in 120 Hz and very exciting. And also you can daisy chain them because they have a Thunderbolt
00:09:23
extra Thunderbolt port which is sick. >> Yeah. >> So I I think I have to get these. I'm
00:09:30
excited for what the mini LED ends up looking like. There's 2,34 dimming zones
00:09:35
uh which are supposed to have even better contrast levels which is very nice. And 120 Hz is pretty crazy to be
00:09:41
able to do that on these displays. Now, obviously, we've had gaming displays for
00:09:45
a long time, and there's like ProArt, there's like all these high-end displays. But the reason people always
00:09:50
end up buying these, even though that they're a bad deal, is just because of
00:09:54
the seamless integration where you can just plug it in and it just works and all that stuff.
00:09:58
>> That is probably the top of the list. >> The second thing on the list is probably
00:10:02
color accuracy and being able to depend. There's a ton of reference modes in
00:10:06
here. Like, this is actually still going to be a very good display. Um, I kind of
00:10:11
wonder how it'll look next to a Pro display or how comparable they will be. Ideally, they're very, very similar. But
00:10:17
yeah, I think I think these are actually a really good display. And the fact that
00:10:20
they're $2,000 cheaper makes it look good compared to a Pro, which is obviously why you should never buy a Pro
00:10:26
Display again, and they're discontinued. >> That's going to be a pretty significant
00:10:29
lack of real estate you're going to lose when you're 2xing this now, putting them
00:10:33
next to each other. Like, you're you're losing a lot of space. It would be way
00:10:37
easier to have made your replica desk if I could have done 27 in 5K monitors instead.
00:10:41
>> Well, maybe now on the replica desk you can just buy used Pro Display XDRs cuz
00:10:46
those are going to be cheaper. >> You don't have to buy the XDR. You should just buy the studio display.
00:10:50
>> Well, but the Pro display XDR might be like the same price in the used now, you
00:10:53
know. >> Oh, you think used the price would be it won't be that low, but I don't.
00:10:56
>> You don't think they go up for people who want stills? >> The 6K Apple display is now going to be
00:11:03
like no more production. It's limited edition. >> I think people are interested in the
00:11:07
miniLEDD. >> I totally agree with that. And the refresh rate. Now, the only 6K 32 in
00:11:13
cheese grater monitor you can get is that weirdo knockoff that we got for the replica video if you on the studio.
00:11:20
>> Also, the XDR model, the 27 in does charge at 140 watts. So, you can plug in
00:11:24
the full 16-inch MacBook Pro. The other one that is not the XDR model charges at
00:11:29
96 which is I believe the charging speed of the 14inch MacBook Pro, right? >> Yeah.
00:11:35
>> Or some something like that. Yeah. >> And uh so that I mean that kind of shows
00:11:39
what Apple like who Apple thinks is going to buy these. They think the mini LED ones they're going to be the
00:11:44
hardcore workstation MacBook Pros whereas the the smaller well not smaller the cheaper one is going to be you know
00:11:50
the lighter MacBook Pro. >> Yeah. Um, but you know, my summary is the regular the regular studio display
00:11:56
is not that great of a deal. Please cross shop a bunch of stuff. The Pro Display the Studio Display XDR is kind
00:12:01
of one of one again. >> Yeah, >> it's I feel like it's not going to be
00:12:05
adding much to people who were like the people who bought Pro Display XDR previously. Now this is just what you
00:12:12
buy instead. And it's not going to be like just cuz it's cheaper, I don't
00:12:15
think it's going to gain that many more users. Yeah, I think it's if you today
00:12:20
were thinking about buying a Proisplay XDR and then this comes out, it's like,
00:12:22
"Oh, thank god I don't have to buy a Pro Display because that was going to be way
00:12:25
more expensive for essentially 2x3 in of screen or five or whatever, but this is
00:12:30
way cheaper and and a better display. >> 120 Hz is pretty nice though, I guess.
00:12:34
>> That's really what I'm most excited about to be honest." >> Yeah.
00:12:38
>> Yeah, >> that's pretty good. >> You're going to rock and see us too.
00:12:41
>> I'm going to edit 30 fps videos and it's going to be great. >> Yeah. Um, okay. Okay, we got to talk
00:12:47
about the iPhone 17e. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, obviously last year, uh, review was
00:12:52
called like, who is this for? Or something like that because it just didn't make any sense at all.
00:12:57
>> It was a $600 iPhone with a 60 Hz display >> with no Mag Safe. >> Yeah. One camera
00:13:03
>> and with a single camera, >> which is the worst of all worlds. >> Yeah.
00:13:07
>> And also, last year was the year that they started making the base iPhone like
00:13:11
really good, >> so it just made even less sense. I reviewed a $900 iPhone 16.
00:13:19
>> Why would they give you the top model? >> $900. >> Nobody is going to buy the top model.
00:13:25
>> You can get all of the phone for $900. >> Dude, that's insane.
00:13:27
>> So, okay, now we have the 17e one year later. And what do they change? >> There's like two ways this could have
00:13:32
gone. Either it stays exactly the same or it's horrible or it's best is we get
00:13:37
what the 16e should have been. >> I think that's what we got. >> And I think that's what we got.
00:13:40
>> I think that's what we got. It has Mag Safe now. It has one more color. So, it
00:13:43
was black and white. Right now there's black, white, and pink. Uh I don't know
00:13:46
if anyone's asking for pink, but every >> They're doing pink this year. I swear.
00:13:49
>> Yeah. Um and it has the newest chip and it doubles up to 256 gigs of storage
00:13:54
again. And it's still the same 599 price. >> And Ceramic Shield 2. >> And Ceramic Shield 2, which a lot of
00:14:00
people are very excited about. >> Yeah. >> So C1X chip may be underrated, but it's
00:14:04
in there, too. Uh it's their newest highest end modem cellular wireless chip. Uh, so that may end up being like
00:14:12
the most high-end thing in here alongside the the processor. >> Yeah. >> But I think what's really interesting is
00:14:18
they stuck with a single camera and they stuck with the same exact design and the
00:14:21
60 Hz display on the front. >> Yeah. >> So now the question is just how much do
00:14:27
you care about a single camera and a 60 Hz display? Lots of people don't care
00:14:30
clearly. >> Yeah. And lots of people will just buy this phone. I find it still a little
00:14:36
crazy that if you cross shop a little bit for 600 bucks, you can get a 120 Hz OLED, you could get dual, probably
00:14:43
triple cameras. Uh, but a lot of people don't want the Android thing. >> I'd rather buy a standard 16 refurbished
00:14:50
for probably cheaper than this than the 17e. >> Yeah. I wonder if there's refurbished
00:14:54
17s already >> that are cheaper >> that are like 600 bucks. >> Probably not that cheap.
00:14:59
>> Probably not that cheap yet, >> but 16s definitely. >> Yeah.
00:15:02
>> Yeah. I think I mean a lot of these things that we're going to talk about
00:15:05
today it's like if you're willing to buy used or refurbished the the bit better
00:15:10
one from last year is a better deal >> and I think that people should get into
00:15:15
the habit of looking at used and refurbished things before they buy the new thing especially because we're
00:15:20
getting such incremental upgrades every year. >> I was going to say not even everything
00:15:23
we talk about today every phone we talk about pretty much >> even the MacBook when we talk about it
00:15:28
because a lot of people are talking about the refurbished MacBook Air from last year. Well, I was going to say that
00:15:32
going off of how Marquez started his video is like if you're listening to this, if you're
00:15:37
>> like one of our like if you're subscribed to tech channels, you just
00:15:41
this isn't for you. Just like get the get the regular iPhone 17 >> or an old like air or like refurbished
00:15:49
like do do that because this is not for the people that are aware of of this. >> This is like you walk into a store and
00:15:56
you're like give me the cheap one. I don't care. Whatever. like those people,
00:15:59
they're going to get the >> but it's got to have iMessage cuz my nieces and nephews have iMessage.
00:16:02
>> Like I don't the same thing with the with the new computer. Like I don't care
00:16:05
what's the cheap one. Like that's that's who this is for. >> At least this year they get a decent
00:16:10
phone like a phone that makes sense in the lineup where last year it felt like they were getting scammed.
00:16:15
>> Not having Mag Safe was like a big L. And then like they're kind of mogging
00:16:19
Google with the storage right now. I'm going to >> I don't know what mogging means but get
00:16:23
get mogged. Pixel Alyssa Lou said it so I can see storage mogging. Yeah. So, >> Apple frame mogs Google in Miami club.
00:16:33
Google with a massive cortisol spike. >> After being frame mogged by Chad Apple
00:16:39
>> Google's Google's 10A has 128 gigs of storage again. >> So,
00:16:44
>> yeah. >> So, yeah, if the 11 comes out, I'm assuming that'll be 256 base. It's got
00:16:48
to be. >> That's just Yeah, you're right. Cuz now they did the >> It's got to be, dude. 17 over the Pixel
00:16:53
10, doubled storage, same price, and now they did it for the cheap versions on both.
00:16:58
>> 17. >> This just feels like they're picking on Google at this point.
00:17:02
>> Yeah, they deserve to get picked. >> Google Yeah, Apple's getting to the
00:17:04
point where they're like not releasing anything with 128 gigs of storage anymore cuz when we get to the Neo
00:17:08
starts at 256 as well, like there's not a lot of 128s left uh in the Apple ecosystem. Google's got to catch up
00:17:15
otherwise they're going to have a lot of cortisol this this summer. >> I know you're watching. I know you are.
00:17:20
I know you've heard us. >> You can delete that comment and just get to work on the phone.
00:17:27
>> All right, there's one more thing that Apple announced and it was uh the final
00:17:31
thing that they saved for Wednesday, >> which is a MacBook Neo new name. >> Cool name.
00:17:36
>> We've never heard that word from Apple before. We thought it would just be the
00:17:38
MacBook. So, MacBook Neo is a $599 MacBook. It's a 13-in display. It's powered by an A18 Pro chip. So, not
00:17:49
quite Apple silicon M series chip, but that was a chip that was in the iPhone 16 Pro, and it seems to be right around
00:17:55
the level of performance of M1. >> Probably a little better in single core,
00:18:00
a little worse in multi-core, but anyway, A18 Pro inside, 8 gigs of RAM, 256 gigs of storage, and four colors.
00:18:08
It's incredibly inexpensive, and so they've done all the things they have to
00:18:12
do to get a MacBook, which is still made of metal all the way down. Uh, like the
00:18:16
keyboard's not back lit anymore. It's only two ports. Both are USB type-C. One
00:18:21
of them is USB 3. One of them is USB 2. And they're not labeled >> and they're not labeled. The back one is
00:18:26
USB 3. The front one's USB 2. You probably figure that out sooner or later. >> I don't know if people will, bro. I
00:18:30
don't think you don't care. If you figured it out, you shouldn't be buying
00:18:34
this. >> I think most people are just using these ports to charge and not using them for
00:18:38
>> one to charge, one to plug something in, a mouse, a keyboard, some random. I
00:18:42
don't know. Everything is wireless now. It's true. I think I cuz this is for
00:18:45
people that are doing every it's the like you said you guys both said this the Safari book,
00:18:49
>> right? So like people are using online services almost exclusively with this
00:18:53
computer. So like why plug anything in except for charging it? >> That's totally true.
00:18:56
>> Yeah. >> Uh what else is true? Oh uh so the keyboard Yeah. not back lit and the
00:19:00
trackpad is not a force touch trackpad. It's an actual clicking trackpad and
00:19:04
it's a little bit smaller. >> Yeah. >> You said it felt good though.
00:19:06
>> It felt good. Felt totally fine. Uh no issues with that at all. And the last
00:19:10
thing I noticed is the keyboards were white and they had so the the on the side they had like moved the speakers to
00:19:17
the side of the laptop >> side firing >> like sidefiring. I got a couple demos to
00:19:21
listen to them. They do not sound good. That's okay. They're just baseline at
00:19:26
laptop speakers at this point. >> Wait, before you move on, this is something I want to clarify on here
00:19:31
because I asked you this question. I was reading in the review before you even got back or what you were writing and
00:19:36
you say all the keyboards are white, but like >> on the picture they look >> tinted.
00:19:41
>> They're tinted, but like on apple.com they look like >> colorful.
00:19:46
>> Colorful. Very colorful. And then I did see some of your footage. You said the
00:19:49
lighting wasn't great, but like it seems like they're closer to white. >> Yeah. So they're they're Yeah. To to be
00:19:56
fair, I think apple.com pumps the color a little bit. I think they look light and tinted. So on the indigo laptop for
00:20:02
example, the keyboard looks light light light light light blue. >> Close to white. Not quite white.
00:20:09
>> On the website looks like dark purple almost. >> Yeah, it looks dark.
00:20:12
>> Yeah. It's not quite that t. >> So it's like LCroy blue. >> A breath of Exactly. Just a tiny bit.
00:20:17
>> A truck passed by with a blue in it. >> Somebody whispered blue at the factory.
00:20:20
>> Yeah. Yeah. So uh so slightly matching keyboards and even like matching
00:20:26
wallpapers and UI elements by default out of the box. So, like on the yellow laptop, the menu items are yellow and
00:20:32
the keyboard's slightly yellow. And it's like, okay, you got the citrus theme.
00:20:34
>> I love the citrus one so much. >> Are you into citrus? I was thinking
00:20:37
about that. They asked me, "What's your favorite color?" There's citrus. There's
00:20:40
That's the yellow one. There's indigo, which is the blue, dark blue one. Then
00:20:44
there's the pink one, which I think is called blush. And then there's silver.
00:20:47
>> Andrew, you piss colored. >> Yellow. I do like yellow a lot. >> It's piss.
00:20:54
>> Yeah, they got him on the >> It looks good. Also, I just thought,
00:20:57
where's Project Red? >> Oh, yeah. That would be cool. The red would be sick.
00:21:01
>> I don't know. In Product Red. >> Product Red. >> Yeah. In all the videos, I know the
00:21:05
lighting was kind of >> Yeah. >> The The Piss one looked like kind of It
00:21:08
looked like neon green. >> It Yeah, because the lighting It's so tough. It in person it it's giving lemon
00:21:18
lime. >> It's giving lemon >> like the Gatorade. >> Yeah. >> It's like the best Gatorade flavor.
00:21:23
>> So, like a tiny bit of green, but not really. Good morning. >> It's mostly yellow.
00:21:26
>> Y'all haters. >> It's mostly yellow. It's my favorite
00:21:28
flavor. Gatorade. >> I don't want to hear that. >> You probably should not say my favorite
00:21:33
flavor while he's saying >> Wait, lemon lime is your favorite Gatorade.
00:21:36
>> I like orange and yellow. Yeah. >> It's such a boring pick, but I think I
00:21:40
agree with yellow. It's so good. And then >> Gatorade. >> Yeah. >> And then Glacier Cherry.
00:21:44
>> What What's your favorite flavor of Gatorade? >> Like the red one.
00:21:47
>> The blue you can't call boring and then go fruit punch. I agree. Fruit punch is
00:21:52
delicious. That's the default. Good. That's the antiator. >> No, the blue one.
00:21:56
>> Yeah, but which blue one? >> Oh god, I hate that one. >> Light blue.
00:21:59
>> No, the problem with the blue one and the yellow one is that they make my sal
00:22:02
like saliva glands fire. >> They all do that. >> The red one doesn't.
00:22:06
>> So full of sugar. Really? >> Well, are you taking a zero? >> I'm talking because they're a little bit
00:22:09
sour >> background. >> Anyway, the flavors of Gatorade here with this MacBook Neo.
00:22:17
>> The silver is the absolute best color because it looks just like the old 12-in
00:22:21
MacBook. It looks very clean. Everyone buying the silver is why we don't get
00:22:24
fun colors on things anymore because they're giving us fun colors and y'all
00:22:28
are like, "Oh, I want silver." >> That's actually I want to see the
00:22:30
distribution here because there's a silver one. You can get the boring one or a colorful one. And I want to know
00:22:35
what the spread ends up being for different colors. >> Regular people will buy a color. Schools
00:22:39
will buy a thousand of the silver ones >> and that's it. >> Everyone I know that pre-ordered one
00:22:43
pre-ordered the piss color, but I think it's just because they like have taste.
00:22:47
>> Who do you know that pre-ordered a MacBook Neo? >> Three people. It's do they know they're
00:22:51
all piece of >> Well, it's really I mean >> it's project Linda. It's a phone.
00:22:56
>> No, think about this. The A18 Pro is is about the M4 single thread performance.
00:23:02
Multi-thread it's not. But for single single threaded tasks, it's about the
00:23:06
M4. >> We should talk about what this computer is going to be capable of, right? Okay.
00:23:10
Everyone sees it's the the the smartphone chip. And to be fair, it will be not as good, especially with the 8
00:23:18
gigs of memory. I think that's actually the real bottleneck. But it will not be
00:23:21
good for video editing. It won't be good for gaming. They were bold enough to do
00:23:25
a gaming demo for me on this on a 60 Hz display. >> Was an iPhone game though.
00:23:30
>> It was basically an iPhone game. It didn't look that great. This is not for
00:23:33
that. But if you think about who's going to be buying this, it's a lot of
00:23:37
schools. It's a lot of students. It's a lot of young people's first computer who
00:23:41
you're getting them a Mac instead of a tablet or something or like a cheap a
00:23:44
random HP or a Chromebook. >> Yes. This for those people is a web browser and it's a spreadsheets, word
00:23:50
processing, texting, basic stuff like that. Email, it's going to kill all that. It's super good. And most of these
00:23:57
things are single core tasks that this chip is going to be totally fine for. When you ask more of it, that's when
00:24:03
you're going to, you know, feel like the edges of performance of like, oh wow, I
00:24:06
can't play Fortnite on this laptop or you can play Fortnite. It's optimized.
00:24:10
Great. >> I mean, you can play it on a phone. at 60 Hz on this laptop, but us
00:24:21
isn't a this isn't going to be for that anyway. >> So, I think it's actually a perfectly
00:24:26
reasonable performance envelope. I think the 8 gigs of memory is going to be like
00:24:30
a time thing like how long before apps are just using too much memory for this 8.
00:24:36
>> I had an 8 gigaby M1 MacBook MacBook Air when it came out. >> Yeah. And it's great up until your
00:24:42
storage starts filling up because it uses the swap memory. >> Yeah. >> And the memor is very fast. So it's like
00:24:48
it's generally fine, but as soon as your storage starts filling up, it starts
00:24:51
getting slow. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know. I go back to the story
00:24:55
with my sister how she bought the uh she bought the Mac Mini and the next day the
00:25:00
double storage model was the same price. So I told her to return it. She's like,
00:25:04
"Why would I do that? >> I don't use storage. I just browse the web."
00:25:06
>> That's exactly what she said. What am I going to do with storage? Yeah.
00:25:09
>> And I was like >> regular people like we have so many things on our desktops and like locally
00:25:17
on our computer because it's video files and it's big photos and it's all this
00:25:20
stuff. >> Regular people just do everything on the web browser. >> I know. But that web browser is usually
00:25:25
Google Chrome which demands 64 GB of RAM. This is why this is Safari. >> Safari book
00:25:32
>> which I you know how I feel about Safari. I'm like the biggest Safari
00:25:35
evangelist of all time. But like >> I don't know, man. Yeah, I love Safari.
00:25:40
I'll never use anything else. >> Here's an interesting spec about like
00:25:42
what might make this a Safari book. The battery size on this laptop is significantly smaller than a MacBook
00:25:49
Air. MacBook Air has something like a 55watt hour battery. This has a 36 12 watt hour battery, but they are quoting
00:25:56
almost the same battery life as a MacBook Air. I guarantee that's mostly like video playback and using Safari
00:26:02
because the second you throw Chrome on this thing is going to tank through that half size battery. So this is this is
00:26:08
specifically like you're using Apple's apps, you're using Safari, you're using
00:26:11
iMessage, you're using Apple Music, and that's that's going to be great.
00:26:15
>> It's also lower TTE cuz it's a literally the phone processor, but like an M
00:26:19
processor is just a big phone processor. They're pretty much the same architecture.
00:26:23
>> I think it also comes with like a 20 watt charger cuz it's such a small
00:26:26
battery. It doesn't need a big charger. And that's lower total lower power
00:26:31
envelope. >> Wow. >> It is so crazy >> that you can run Mac OS on an A18.
00:26:36
>> Yeah, man. >> What's also crazy is we've been running iPad OS on an M4.
00:26:41
>> That is that is also crazy. Now an M5, right? >> The M4 iPad. Yeah.
00:26:47
>> Like what else could we be doing? You know, >> so >> can I run Linux on a toaster? Like are
00:26:52
we >> Absolutely. Isn't there an A19 Pro in the studio display XDR? Like they just
00:26:59
print these chips. >> Yeah, they put the iPhone in that display just for the camera.
00:27:04
>> This chip is so cheap for them to make. It's unbelievable. >> Yeah, Ellis's point though, that was the
00:27:08
one takeaway that I had from this MacBook Neo thing was like, "Oh, so you can run Mac OS on these phone chips?
00:27:13
They just choose not to." >> For sure. >> So, you think I can plug in the iPhone
00:27:17
Fold and have a Mac OS experience? Cuz it's possible. Clearly, >> they might do that. I don't know.
00:27:22
Especially if Google's doing it. >> That would be freaking awesome. I think
00:27:24
that's a philosophical thing cuz you're what you're saying makes perfect logical
00:27:27
sense and we are the consumer and so we're thinking logically about this but
00:27:31
if you're Apple and I thought a lot about this recently like the super super
00:27:34
powerful iPad is still not good enough to be your fulltime that's a $2,000 M4
00:27:40
powered iPad and it's still not your full-time laptop >> for some people it could be
00:27:44
>> for a lot of people get an iPad and have Mac OS depends on what you do >> there's some evangelists and there's a
00:27:52
small fraction of people who are like iPad sickos that are like, "Yes, I got
00:27:56
rid of my laptop. Yes, this is a thing." And you can do that if you're really
00:28:00
dedicated. >> But I think for most people, iPad, they're specifically designing these
00:28:05
products to live alongside each other. Apple's like, "Please buy a MacBook and
00:28:09
an iPad. Use Sidecar, use continuity, use the sync across the devices. They are perfect for each other." Michael,
00:28:16
our our our graphics guy, he uses an iPad. He said, "Just for the pencil and
00:28:20
to draw things and then for Sidecar." Yeah. >> Yeah. But he also uses a magic mouse. So
00:28:25
like >> I mean if you buy like a used iPad Air for pretty cheap. Having an external
00:28:31
display that you can just have at any time is pretty awesome too. >> Yeah. For your Mac.
00:28:34
>> For your Mac. >> So they're like please buy both. >> Yeah.
00:28:36
>> And so for as powerful as they are willing to make the iPad Pro, they are
00:28:40
not willing to make it powerful enough philosophically to be your full-time computer. They want you to use it
00:28:45
alongside. >> It's an artificial limitation. >> It is 100%. >> Yeah. So Apple specializes in it.
00:28:50
>> I know. It's their specialty. >> But they also let you plug it into the
00:28:53
display. And they talk about how with the new displays, >> I love that. >> Yeah. They talk about how with the new
00:28:57
displays, like you can plug the the iPad the new iPad Pro into the 120 Hz display
00:29:03
and it'll like run at 120 Hz and you can do all the things. >> And I think if they're letting you plug
00:29:07
the iPad into that display with the Thunderbolt cable and like run iPad OS on the display, they will probably let
00:29:12
you do that with the Fold. That's my guess. >> Have you ever noticed the demos though
00:29:15
that they run? Whenever they do that, I pay very close attention to the demos that Apple constructs to demo their
00:29:21
products, right? And when they ever do whenever they do the like iPad plugged into the studio display, they
00:29:26
immediately open Procreate and they just start like doing the artist thing. They
00:29:30
never do file management. They never do multitasking. They're doing like the
00:29:33
very simple like, oh, here's the big display so you can view your work thing.
00:29:37
>> That's on purpose. I think if they wanted you to do all that like computer
00:29:40
stuff, >> Yeah. >> they'd be selling you a computer. I will say uh really quick with the new
00:29:45
display, the the really good one, the XDR one, they have the camera in it now. So they could just get you you guys
00:29:51
should just get rid of continuity camera cuz every there's many times when I get
00:29:55
on a video call and my feed is just black and I don't understand why and then I realize it automatically
00:30:00
connected to my phone and it's just in my pocket and I'm like, "Oh, this is
00:30:04
>> that's true." But please don't actually because >> you don't have to get rid of it. I'm
00:30:09
just saying like when I'm in the audio room, I need to take a call. There's no
00:30:11
webcam in that room, right? And I I am so peripheralled up in that setup. Like I really don't want to add another one.
00:30:17
But I recently added my iPad as a third monitor with Sidecar. >> You can use that camera.
00:30:24
>> No, but I just close the the sidecar window and take the call on the iPad.
00:30:29
>> Oh yeah, >> that's cool. Yeah. >> So I Yeah, I guess you could get rid of
00:30:32
it. >> Marquez, I want to know cuz you actually played with uh these laptops. People
00:30:37
were talking about the thickness. >> Can you talk about that? >> Sure. So,
00:30:41
>> are you down with the thickness? >> I think a lot of people will be totally
00:30:44
fine with it. So, technically it is a little bit smaller than the iPad uh than the MacBook Air. It is a 13-in display
00:30:51
instead of 13.6, right? >> But it is basically the exact same weight and it is actually slightly
00:30:58
thicker because of the lack of wedge shape. And that's not to hold more battery. It's not even like a bigger
00:31:02
battery. It's just like this is a not engineered for maximum thinness air. So,
00:31:07
it feels like an Air to me when I'm holding it. It does. I didn't worry about like extra weight or thickness.
00:31:12
It's I think technically on paper a tenth of an inch thicker than the MacBook Air. Yeah.
00:31:17
>> So, like not a big deal. Yeah. >> Is it I'm assuming it's not wedge shaped
00:31:20
cuz now the speakers are down here, right? Which if you wedged all the way down to there, you can't have the
00:31:24
speakers in the bottom corner. And also the headphone jack there looks really strange.
00:31:28
>> Yeah, it is weird. >> It is really weird. >> It kind It makes more sense to be
00:31:33
honest. figure out why weird sense >> cuz it's just closer to you and when you
00:31:37
have actual headphones you're plugging in >> the further I mean it's like
00:31:41
>> 3 in closer >> 8 in it would probably be the difference but >> I will say uh the refurbished 13-in
00:31:48
MacBook Air right now on Apple's website is $750. >> This is how I think I need to review
00:31:53
this computer. >> Yeah. is if you are thinking about buying a MacBook Neo and you want to be
00:31:59
a little bit like you want to like look into it a little bit. There's actually
00:32:04
two other things you could do for $600 is you could get an M1 MacBook Air >> M1, right?
00:32:11
>> That'd be really cheap. >> That would be a potentially just as good
00:32:15
computer for you, but it's an M chip. Um, you get more software support from
00:32:20
buying a Neo today because you're starting today at day zero and have years of software, but you know, maybe
00:32:26
you think an M1 Air will have a better display, more multi-threaded, whatever. That's a choice you could make.
00:32:31
>> Mhm. >> Uh, and the other is you could still buy like a $500, $600 Windows computer or a
00:32:38
Chromebook for that price. >> It's and I think it's we all have this
00:32:43
reaction because we're like, well, why would you do that if you could get Mac
00:32:45
OS? But I think that's the comparison that I need to put it all I need to put
00:32:49
these things all online and see like what's the advantage. What's the best
00:32:53
Windows laptop I can get for $5.99 for students? $4.99. That's going to be tough, but I want to actually figure
00:32:58
that out. >> I think it's like if you are watching or listening to this podcast right now,
00:33:03
that might be a something you look into. Most people buying this they and those people might find your regular channel
00:33:10
review going to buy it. They just like to me the MacBook Neo is it's a laptop.
00:33:16
All of us don't have laptops anymore. We have fullblown workstations that happen
00:33:21
to be in a laptop now because we got to that point. Maybe workstation is not the
00:33:25
right word, but like these are insanely powerful for this. But when you think about what we just used to do with
00:33:31
laptops, we never sat at a desk with them and like plugged it into something. We would sit on the couch or a chair or
00:33:37
a coffee shop and like that's what the Neo is. It's just a laptop. >> That's a world I've never known. Like my
00:33:44
first my first laptop was like a plug into a a a workstation desk and like >> and do it. And I remember
00:33:52
>> being like, yo, why are laptops not as powerful as computers? Until M the M
00:33:57
series came out and it's just like why would we go for >> like Claire has a laptop. It's never
00:34:02
she's never sat at a desk with it. She uses it on the couch or maybe at the dining room table or like in the like
00:34:09
and she uses it at work sometimes. I guess that's at a desk. But like those are laptop things to just do laptop
00:34:14
things or >> we need to do like a studio video that's like a competition between a MacBook
00:34:20
Air, a Neo, a a Windows PC and an iPad cuz I'm I'm so curious where the edge
00:34:27
case is that one c one of those cannot do. >> I think this is that point though where
00:34:32
if you're watching a video of like a competition between a Neo and something
00:34:36
else, you're out of the Neo range already. No, but like even for like like genuinely
00:34:41
>> what can what can you not do on an iPad that you can do on a Neo? You can get a
00:34:46
keyboard. You can Bluetooth any keyboard to an iPad. >> I know. But >> here. So that might be one thing to add
00:34:50
to my discussion because the base iPads 329. >> The keyboard and trackpad they make for
00:34:55
it are $250. So that's $600 right there. >> You could get that and you can do file
00:35:03
management and multi-wind and most >> it's modular at that point too. And you
00:35:07
have a touch screen if you want it and you could pop it off. Yeah, that's that's maybe that's one more option. Put
00:35:12
it on your lap. >> And I I would also >> That's true. >> That's very true.
00:35:17
>> I would also argue that the people the the market for the Neo is more likely to
00:35:24
use cloud storage and just file management doesn't matter really on like the iPad.
00:35:30
>> I don't know, man. I think >> I just like integrated laptops more than
00:35:34
twoin-one touchcreens with detachable keyboards. >> I also think we're overthinking this.
00:35:39
Yep. >> I think if a if a parent walks into Best Buy and sees three laptops and an iPad
00:35:44
that are all $600, they're buying the Neo because they're familiar with Apple.
00:35:48
It looks like >> going to sell. Also, education discount is $100 off. So, it's $500 with
00:35:55
education discount. >> Can I ask a question if any of you guys might know? I asked this to Marquez and
00:35:59
I wasn't like when I always think of getting an educational discount, it's
00:36:02
usually with aedu email address which is college, but like very clearly this is great for high school and
00:36:08
>> it might work if you have like a high school ID. I'm not sure. >> Yeah, I guess a high school ID, but it's
00:36:12
harder to prove you are a student and if you don't have to, then I'm just going
00:36:16
to walk into an Apple store with a kid and be like, look at this student over here. It's been a long time since since
00:36:21
I was in that world, but I believe Apple partners with a company called Uniday to
00:36:26
do uh educational status verification. >> Like for the past ever since I was in
00:36:31
college, like even my freshman year of college to get any Apple edu discounts, you needed to first go through the
00:36:37
Uniday's verification process. >> And that's like high school students.
00:36:41
No, that's why I'm saying like I don't know how you would do it as a high
00:36:43
school student because you need to like you need to give them a bunch of documents like your your transcripts and
00:36:49
like your ed your edu email and like >> but also I wouldn't be surprised if a
00:36:53
lot of high schoolers are getting edu emails now. >> Yeah, >> possibly.
00:36:57
>> Um >> I feel like also a lot of middle schools high schools are the ones supplying the
00:37:01
computers for the classrooms at least in the US from what I've seen but I'm sure
00:37:04
there's plenty of >> How do schools work in 2026? I don't really know how
00:37:08
>> your open claw teacher tells you some lies about George Washington and then
00:37:13
you go home and like play Fortnite and drink caffeine all night, right? >> I remember in like 8th grade when we got
00:37:19
a Smartboard and the thing just never worked so they just used the whiteboard instead and we were like, "Damn, look at
00:37:24
this technology." >> Smartboard in eighth grade. >> It was called a smart.
00:37:27
>> It never worked. It >> never worked. We just watched movies on the CRT, baby. That's all we did. The
00:37:32
smartboard wound up just being the projector white screen essentially and they never used the fake markers on it.
00:37:38
>> 70 lb TV. >> The overhead projector, not >> my old This might be I might be at the
00:37:42
end of people who had to use transparencies. This was like maybe the end of school.
00:37:46
>> I had transparencies in middle school. >> Okay. Yeah. >> That like the projector with the
00:37:52
transparent thing. >> The overhead projector. That's what I just said. Yeah.
00:37:54
>> The overhead projector. >> Overhead. No. No overhead. It's on a
00:37:56
cart. >> Yeah, it's on. But it's for some reason it's called the overhead projector cuz I
00:38:00
think the mirror or whatever that's above it is over top of it leads into it. Yeah.
00:38:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. That thing >> that was always funny when they erased and it just wiped stuff all over the
00:38:09
place. >> That is an evolution of slide film by the way which was used specifically for
00:38:13
slides like that so they could draw on it. >> Anyway, stay tuned for the Neo review. I
00:38:18
do think this is Yeah, I do think this is potentially one of the most disruptive products of the last couple
00:38:23
of years. I think a lot of Chromebook sellers and Windows laptop OEMs who have been feasting in that price segment are
00:38:31
very worried about that one. >> Yeah. >> Um but we'll see. Can I throw one other
00:38:36
like pro of this out here which is the pro to all Apple products in the US at least is like
00:38:40
>> it's not a pro, it's a Neo. >> Yes, I was gonna make the joke and then
00:38:42
I thought it was >> No, it's just like when we're looking at cheaper products that are specifically
00:38:49
not for tech people, the biggest pro of me suggesting this is when it breaks on you, I can tell you to go to an Apple
00:38:55
store and get it fixed and I don't have to diagnose everything over the phone.
00:38:58
Like it's so much easier to just be like, "Hey, you can get the help here."
00:39:03
I was thinking that because I've bought my mom computers before. Like I bought
00:39:06
her like a a Chromebook before. I think, "Oh, it's Chrome. It's just Chrome. She
00:39:11
can't mess it up. I was wrong." Like there are just infinite ways. And you
00:39:16
know, she could just go to a store and I don't have to be her son. Then I guess
00:39:20
that that you know, it's great. Anyway, uh I want to make one more thing. The
00:39:24
closest like analogy to this is the Surface Go. Do you guys remember that computer?
00:39:29
>> Oh, they tried a Snapdragon one. >> It was not Snapdragon. It was it was
00:39:32
Intel Pentium Gold 4415Y. >> Bless you. >> Yeah, thanks. And if you remember, Dave
00:39:38
2D just shat all over this computer cuz it was so bad. And it it started at 400 bucks just for the tablet and then you
00:39:46
still had to buy the keyboard and the pen which were more expensive. I believe altogether it was probably about the
00:39:52
same price as the as this Neo device. Um and it sucked. It really did. It was seven years. 7 years old now obviously
00:40:00
and they made a better one that made it better but it was still expensive and bad.
00:40:05
So I'm just saying that look all the all the tech PC channels Lionus Tech Tips
00:40:12
Lionus is is slowly like has been making videos being like oh no oh no Mac is better value than Windows in like almost
00:40:22
every way now. Like there is no it's very hard unless you're a gamer at this
00:40:26
point to recommend yourself a Windows computer. Also like >> also everyone's mad at Windows so that
00:40:33
helps. >> Yeah, because Microsoft is a legacy corporation that doesn't Anyway, I'm
00:40:37
going to get so yelled at. But I'm just saying >> I'm just saying >> this I for the Surface Go if you look at
00:40:42
it from the side just looks like a bad math problem. There's so many angles going on. the keyboard is like slightly
00:40:49
flipped up and it's got the stand and like everything about this. >> I don't know.
00:40:54
>> Again, it was it's seven years old. I get that. Um but there just hasn't
00:40:58
really been anything except for like a Chromebook that is this price and can do this many things. And a lot of people,
00:41:05
especially in the United States, own iPhones and the integration and all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, this is a pretty
00:41:11
this is a pretty serious computer from Apple. I'm still I'm very interested to
00:41:14
get it in and have us like test it and play with it and see what it ends up being like. But being M4 single thread
00:41:20
performance when that's what everyone wants most of the time, single thread performance is like,
00:41:25
>> you know, >> it's just yellow, too. It's sick. >> It's piss Andrew.
00:41:29
>> So good. >> The silver is the best. >> I want the yellow keyboard so bad.
00:41:33
>> I'm happy for you. >> I think we have to take it to trivia. >> Yeah. Stay tuned.
00:41:42
But first, >> I messed up. >> Oh, >> I was so diligently researching when the
00:41:54
Galaxy Buds actually came out because it was a more difficult thing to research than you would expect.
00:41:58
>> You mean the Galaxy Gear Icon X? >> No. >> Try AI overview.
00:42:02
>> I would never try AI overview, dude. Okay. AI overview almost messed me up
00:42:06
for this week, too. I spent way too much of if you saw me on my phone and on my on the computer. I'll Anyway, Marquez,
00:42:15
you stated yesterday that the buds came out before the fold or I don't know what
00:42:20
you stated >> yesterday. Last week. >> Last week. >> Last week.
00:42:23
>> But you said the opposite of the other two boys and you were actually correct
00:42:26
and I was wrong. >> Who? >> I just want whoever put the comment correcting them. Uh, please unsubscribe.
00:42:37
>> That was the first point David and I got in what felt like weeks. >> Hey man, I got another point last week.
00:42:42
>> Wow, that's a huge. So, I'm one point up and y'all are both one point down.
00:42:46
That's huge. >> No, I'm not. >> I'm huge for the program.
00:42:49
>> I got the other question correct though, so it's okay. >> I know, but you both have minus one
00:42:53
point. I have plus that point now. So, I mean two point spread. >> I just want to say Alex Wadell who who
00:42:59
sent us that I'm blue sky. >> Appreciate Sky. So you can admit we need
00:43:04
to nuke blue sky. >> You can admit that there's value to blue sky. >> Make a waveform.
00:43:09
>> Make a waveform. Yeah. Okay. Mr. >> Care. The the trivia question for this
00:43:16
week is one that I hopefully cannot get wrong. So I wrote a crazy question that honestly let's go for it. I will give
00:43:22
each of you one point for every tech product that you can name that has the word Neo in it.
00:43:30
>> Okay. Assuming MacBook Neo does not count. >> MacBook Neo does not count. And um and
00:43:34
the word it doesn't need to have the word like a space between the Neo and another thing.
00:43:38
>> It has Neo in it somewhere. >> Okay. >> Yeah, sure. Honestly, I don't Yeah, it
00:43:45
just has the letters Neo consecutively in the product name. The reason I was going to say a over mess up is because I
00:43:51
was just making sure that there were enough tech products with the word Neo in the name to even
00:43:55
>> product. Yeah, it has to be a tech product. And tech product can be really
00:43:59
broad. Like uses electricity broad. >> Oh, I know one. I don't even Oh, Nero.
00:44:03
Never mind. I don't even know. >> Nope, that doesn't count as an R.
00:44:06
>> Damn. >> Um, but what was really funny is that when the MacBook Neo got announced, a
00:44:10
bunch of AI slot videos came out um that were fake Samsung product announcements
00:44:15
for a phone called the Samsung S26 Ultra Neo that doesn't exist. Just because as
00:44:21
people would Google MacBook Neo, this this would also get served. Of course, AI overview does not know that those are
00:44:29
that's AI slot videos. So, when you Google Samsung Neo to see if that ever existed, you get this really indepth
00:44:36
overview with specs of the Samsung S26 Ultra Neo a phone that >> does not exist.
00:44:42
>> It's sloped. Now, back in our day, it was just small channels making the Pixel
00:44:45
Ultra instead. >> All right. Well, we will learn or we will know the answers. They'll be at the
00:44:50
end like usual. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Shopify.
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00:46:06
All right, welcome back. Let's talk about Nothing. Damn, I make a pun every time I talk about that company. Um,
00:46:12
nothing came out with >> not say anything for a while. >> Yeah, sorry I had to. But nothing's
00:46:16
coming out with three things. >> Nothing phone 4 A, nothing phone 4 A Pro,
00:46:21
>> and nothing phone headphones. Nothing phone Nothing Headphones A. Nothing a
00:46:25
headphones >> headphones A. >> Headphones A. >> Headphones parenthesis A.
00:46:29
>> Yeah. God. Close. Their naming is still kind of tough, not going to lie.
00:46:32
Nothing's a weird name for a company. >> It is. >> Anyway, so the 4A is the the one that
00:46:38
most of us are interested in. It's a 350 pound aka >> that's a really heavy phone. I know that
00:46:45
was a joke. Uh $350ish phone. Uh coming out in a bunch of markets. I think it's
00:46:50
this is the one that's going global. Uh new design. >> Wait, which one? The 4A is UK, Europe,
00:46:56
India. >> Okay. So, the 4A Pro is a global one. >> It uh 4A is in those markets, I guess.
00:47:02
>> Um blue and black. Yeah, it's a slight spec bump. It's got a couple new
00:47:06
interesting things. Uh, I think people in this room have called it the best looking nothing phone ever
00:47:13
last week. >> It's got pink. Do you still feel that way? I need to look at it again.
00:47:17
>> I'll go It's hard to say compared to the Pro. The Pro looks really nice, but not
00:47:23
in the colors. Just the regular silver Pro looks really nice. The >> um I I think 4a is still nicer looking.
00:47:31
>> 4a I think is a more general nicel looking phone. The 4A Pro is really cool
00:47:37
and kind of almost gamey but in like a a subtle way. >> Well, I don't we get to that soon.
00:47:43
>> Yeah, I think Yeah, true. So, I guess I'll just jump into the specs of the
00:47:47
real quick though, but last week we only talked about the pink and the white. There's also a blue and a black one. So,
00:47:53
there's four colors for >> the blue looks good, too. >> The blue looks really nice.
00:47:56
>> Yeah. So, this is running a Snapdragon 7S Gen 4. It has a 580 millah battery
00:48:03
with 50 watt charging, uh, IP64, a pretty bright display. It says 4500 nits peak brightness. I almost never know
00:48:10
what to make of that. I kind of want to know just what the regular >> 4500.
00:48:13
>> Yeah. Like then peak HDR. Like one pixel will be at 4500 nits and then you can
00:48:16
put that number on the spec sheet, but I don't know. >> One of the glyph LEDs on the back.
00:48:20
>> Yeah. Uh, Gorilla Glass 7i. Uh, it's got triple cameras. It's got a pretty good
00:48:27
looking set of specs for a phone that is this cheap. I have a question for the audience that maybe you guys can answer.
00:48:34
>> People still seem to care about processors. >> Yes. >> Hard stop. And I I understand the gaming
00:48:41
aspect of it, I suppose. Um although I'm not really sure what mobile optimized
00:48:46
games don't run at high frame rates anymore. >> Maybe like Genchin Impact or something.
00:48:51
That seems to be the the benchmark. But I still see people caring about the processors and I'm like, if it if the
00:48:57
processor is lower tier, quote unquote, but it enables things like super bright uh 120 Hz, 50 watt charging, like all
00:49:05
this stuff, why do you care? This is my question. >> Yeah, great question. I think this is
00:49:11
another thing where in the bubble that we're in of people overanalyzing every
00:49:15
little detail about a phone, like the enthusiasts, they care about getting the most for their money.
00:49:21
slightly better. >> But who are just more casually shopping, they are not thinking about the
00:49:35
difference between the Snapdragon 8 Elite or the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 or the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5 for Galaxy.
00:49:42
Like, they're all a good chip and the phone performs well. >> Therefore, I'm not getting ripped off.
00:49:48
>> I I agree with you. I use a tensor chip, so clearly I don't give a about
00:49:53
performance. Um, but I think like what Marquez said in like this more range of things when you're probably cross
00:49:59
shopping, if I'm looking at two phones at the same price and one chip is better, then I'm probably going to go
00:50:04
that for the longevity route. That's when I >> I'm hoping that's when people care about
00:50:09
it more so here. But I also, >> as much as I love speaking for the audience, I'm probably wrong when I do
00:50:15
it. >> There's two audiences. I think it's less like the people that care about the
00:50:19
frame rates on the newest game. It's more so how long will this phone last me? I'm spending like $500, $600 after
00:50:26
taxes. Like I want it to last a while. >> Well, Apple would say that rowing at a
00:50:30
lower clock speed actually makes the phone last longer, which is why they force lower clock speeds, but they can't
00:50:34
really do anymore. >> I think that's a perfect example of the two different audiences. There's one
00:50:38
audience who's like, "How dare you? I want the highest clock speed so I have
00:50:42
every single frame with the maximum performance." >> And then there's the other audience
00:50:47
Then there's the other audience who wants just the phone, hey, it works, so make it last as long as possible. So, if
00:50:52
you were in the first bucket who's like, I want to maximize and get the best
00:50:55
possible performance. Especially when you're buying a higherend phone, I think
00:50:57
it makes way more sense to pixel peep and to really want the most out of your phone, then that makes sense. But if
00:51:03
you're buying a $350 phone and it just works and especially with I think nothing software is pretty good, like
00:51:09
it's smooth enough. I don't think it would even feel that different on a
00:51:12
Snapdragon 8 Elite versus a 7S Gen 4. >> Yeah. >> So, it's like Yeah. As long as it lasts
00:51:16
me a couple years and doesn't fall apart, seems like it's a good enough chip.
00:51:21
>> Yeah. Yeah. What do I mean? So, that's the regular 3, the 4A, and we also got
00:51:26
the 4A Pro, which I have to say like got announced this morning. Um, you probably
00:51:31
got some early stuff about it, but >> I did not know anything about it. It
00:51:35
didn't leak online. This has got to be one of the first tech launches that hasn't leaked.
00:51:40
>> They played us >> a very long time. I feel like they the design video last week was to be like
00:51:47
>> look over here. >> Yeah. Yeah. They literally like >> slide them in.
00:51:51
>> Yeah. >> And they did a good job at it. Yeah. This morning I came in I was like we
00:51:55
have a lot to talk about the pot. I have a lot to write this morning cuz we also
00:51:58
had to shoot S26 review. And then I sit down and there's two new nothing products I didn't know about. I was
00:52:02
like, "Oh my god, >> we didn't know about it." Technically Marquez told us last week.
00:52:06
>> Marquez did not tell me about I asked earlier >> on the podcast. I left it in the edit.
00:52:12
>> He did ask, "Is there a 4A pro?" And I was like, "Yeah, probably."
00:52:18
>> He said, "Yeah, but I thought you were just speculating." >> Why are you hiding from us, Mark?
00:52:23
>> Well, I only say what I'm allowed to say. >> Earlier this week, I said,
00:52:26
>> "Hey, I need to I'm writing podcast. Can you send me the 4A specs so I can write
00:52:30
it down?" You're like, "Sure." And didn't send the Pro or the headphones.
00:52:35
>> Well, I didn't get the 4A Pro info. That was the thing. So, so, uh, so the event
00:52:39
was in London the literal hours after the Apple event in New York, so I couldn't physically be at both. So, I
00:52:47
made the decision to see the six Apple devices in New York, and I wasn't able
00:52:50
to teleport to London fast enough to also see the 4A Pro. >> Bummer. >> Um,
00:52:54
>> dude, what's wrong with you? >> Yeah, I couldn't there. I actually
00:52:57
looked. I was like, is there a flight that takes off and gets me there at like 3:00 in the morning so I can just show
00:53:03
up and make a video? But no, there there were no flights I could make that happen.
00:53:06
Um, >> do not cutting that. >> Why? >> Cuz that's not real.
00:53:13
>> We talked about it though. >> That is not coming out. Are you kidding?
00:53:17
>> That's why we couldn't take it. That's why we couldn't fly on it.
00:53:19
>> That's true. >> Yeah. No, that >> But yeah. So anyway, this this stuff was
00:53:24
uh was sort of held in in London for us to see from those who are actually there
00:53:28
with cameras. Yeah. >> And it looks pretty good. The specs also look pretty good. So the 4a Pro again,
00:53:33
it's a 4a pro, not a not a full flagship. It's not a 4. >> So, because it's a 4A
00:53:39
Pro, it's got a Snapdragon 7 Gen 4 chip. >> Going to kill myself. >> I think this is just them coping that
00:53:44
it's like, hey, if you want to put a mid-range chip in this, you can't call
00:53:48
it a flagship. If this was a Snapdragon 8 Elite, then they could call it a flagship. But since it's not, all right,
00:53:54
we have to call it the A Pro instead of the flagship. Fine. >> So, Snapdragon 7 Gen 4, uh, 6.83 in
00:54:00
AMOLED. It's a 120 Hz display, but it will sometimes get to 144 hertz depending on the app. Kind of similar to
00:54:05
some other gaming phones have. >> Okay. >> Um, 5,000 nit peak brightness, which
00:54:09
means nothing to me. 5,000 mAh battery, 50 watt charging, triple cameras again. Better cameras though than the 4a. So,
00:54:17
>> and better looking. It's got the glyph on the back. It's got a >> It's got the Nothing Phone 3 like little
00:54:24
display thing. >> Yeah. In a better way. So, like it, if you haven't seen it yet, it is an all
00:54:29
metal body, which is >> awesome. Beautiful except for wireless charging it cuz it doesn't have that cuz
00:54:34
it can't >> Oh, I didn't even think of that. >> Yeah. >> Poo poo. Um, it has like a large camera
00:54:39
bump similar to an iPhone in terms of footprint, but this is proof that you can do that like everyone else and make
00:54:45
it unique because this is actually sweet. Essentially, one main camera, top left corner, dual camera, what are we
00:54:52
calling them again? Pills. >> The pill. >> The bean. the bean. We got a bean, a
00:54:57
double camera bean under that horizontally. Then to the right of that, a large circle glyph interface, which I
00:55:03
believe has 137 mini LEDs, is 57% larger and twice as bright compared to the phone 3 glyph interface.
00:55:11
>> Wow. Yeah. >> And we still have the red recording LED on it because that should be on every
00:55:17
single phone ever. >> Yes. But then encased in that is a full metal silver pink or black body and it
00:55:25
looks great. It also has the >> cooking over there. It looks >> has like the little circular like indent
00:55:30
on the bottom that matches the new uh pixel buds I or uh sorry not not pixel buds nothing buds feels like that thing.
00:55:38
>> Yeah, it matches all together really well. Although the pink I will say um
00:55:43
okay so like in the camera bar it is color matched on the silver and it's color matched on the black but the pink
00:55:49
is still silver so it looks really weird >> actually >> I kind of wish that they made that pink
00:55:55
>> here's my problem is look at this picture on the verge that looks >> this is the black phone but looks like a
00:56:01
silver camera bump and the black metal looks like it got like plasti dipped instead of like
00:56:06
>> the silver version of this phone is the best looking >> 100% % >> it looks great.
00:56:10
>> Yeah, >> I will say like I miss the HTC full metal body phones and um if you're not
00:56:15
going to have wireless charging, which I still really love wireless charging, >> all metal is pretty awesome. I'm curious
00:56:21
about uh heat and how that ends up working out. Maybe because this chipset is, you know, a little bit lower
00:56:28
performance, it's not going to get as hot. >> Is there a vapor chamber in there?
00:56:31
>> Uh probably. >> I don't actually know. >> I don't know. I don't know. The renders
00:56:35
might look better than these in person. I'm very curious to see them in person.
00:56:39
Um, it's definitely more gamey than their other devices. >> It's a little more I don't know. I'm not
00:56:46
getting gamey as much as I'm getting like R2-D2. >> Yeah, like a little playful pill
00:56:52
morphing type. >> It feels like a phone that they took the nothing buds and just put it in the
00:56:56
camera bump. Like that's where all the nothing design aesthetic is. The clear
00:57:01
and kind of like red accent and whatever. And then there is a little bit at the bottom, but I kind of dig it
00:57:07
because it's not trying too hard while also trying too hard. >> Yeah. >> Which is a hard thing to do.
00:57:11
>> Do I see the price yet? >> $4.99. >> $4.99. So not >> flagship price. I think pretty good
00:57:17
price actually. >> It's cheaper than the Pixel. >> It is interesting though because it's
00:57:22
>> $4.99 USD, £499, and £479, which if you do the They've done this before where
00:57:28
like they match the price, but when you do conversion rates on that is wildly different. Yeah, it's a better
00:57:34
>> It's the same price as the Pixel 10a, right? >> Uh $4.99. >> Yeah.
00:57:38
>> While you guys are looking, my favorite thing about the video was it says
00:57:41
world's first 140x zoom asterisk and then says claims are based on publicly available data at launch,
00:57:47
>> which I think is the claim that it's the world's first 140x zoom,
00:57:52
>> which again just >> it's going to look really bad. If you zoom into 140x, what are you doing?
00:57:57
>> Have you watched the video? >> No. Even when it zooms in on the like
00:58:02
perfectly rendered video of everything, the safe looks terrible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah. Hey, at least
00:58:08
they're honest. >> Here, real quick. It's $4.99 for the 8 gigs of RAM, 128 storage, another $100
00:58:13
for the 12 gigs of RAM, 256 storage. Those are the only two options. >> Just do a,000x and just make it look
00:58:19
really bad. >> Yeah. What's stopping you from going to 2,000? >> Yeah, exactly. You could just brand it
00:58:23
that way. 2000X Zoom. >> World's first. >> World's first. >> Yeah.
00:58:27
>> Um, yeah. I think it looks pretty good. I think the nothing uh design team has
00:58:32
been really cooking recently. >> I think they also did the thing where they kind of uh made the previous stuff
00:58:38
worse so that we'd go, "Wow, they cooked this time. Look at the improvement."
00:58:41
Probably not. >> I mean made it worse >> like how the iPhone 16 was so bad that
00:58:46
when the 17e was what it should have been, we were like, "Wow, they really cooked."
00:58:50
>> Is that Can you do that with design or is it just they tried? >> It depends how quickly you you have
00:58:55
turnaround. Like we hated the three. >> We hated the three but not the 3a. So I
00:58:59
guess that depends on there is like >> I mean the analogy I'm making for the
00:59:03
17e is to to the 16e is the iPhone 12 mini to the 13 mini because the primary problem was the battery and that's the
00:59:11
primary thing they addressed in the next one. >> Yeah. >> And with this one the primary problem
00:59:15
was the lack of wireless charging and the storage. Right. For the price >> versus the 3a pro.
00:59:22
>> I was talking about the 16 in. >> Oh the iPhone. Yeah. So now with this,
00:59:27
>> I think this is more analogous to the 3 than the the yeah the 3A >> because it uses the same kind of glyph
00:59:34
interface even though it's bigger and better now apparently. Um it the 3 still
00:59:39
had a chipset that people were not that happy with. >> It was also super expensive.
00:59:42
>> It was also super Yeah. Like I don't see a reason anyone would buy the 3 when the
00:59:47
3a Pro exists, which is kind of funny. I feel like maybe they should have just called this the 3 Pro, but I guess they
00:59:52
couldn't because the chipset is technically not as good. I just hate this is the thing. This is my thing. Why
00:59:57
does everything rotate around the freaking chipset? >> Because of the super super like the
01:00:01
nerds among us would be like, "Are you seriously making a new flagship with a
01:00:06
worse chip?" >> Yeah, but like >> we've all said it and we've all done it.
01:00:09
Also, >> it's like they can't they cannot name this a flagship because everyone will
01:00:14
say that about them. So they have to leverage this naming scheme of like, okay, it's not the A because the A was
01:00:19
the 4A, but it is better than the 4A, but it's not a flagship chip. So we'll
01:00:23
call it the 4A Pro. That's how they get away with this specific set of specs and
01:00:28
this price. And when they inevitably try a flagship sometime later, all of us nerds will go, "Well, you better put a
01:00:34
flagship chip in it, otherwise I'll spend my money on something else with a flagship chip."
01:00:37
>> Can't wait for the CMF Phone 3 Pro Light that is better than a Nothing Pro 4A.
01:00:42
>> Yeah, it'll be tough. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I think they did a great design.
01:00:46
>> I love this phone. I didn't know what I didn't even think of no wireless
01:00:49
charging though. That makes me sad. >> It makes me sad. But >> I don't know if you're not going to I
01:00:55
mean I want it for sure. I always want it. >> But if you if you're not going to do it,
01:01:00
metal body is sick. >> True. >> Cuz I miss my HTC Thunderbolt even though it burned my hand.
01:01:05
>> What about There's so many better metal phones you could >> The HTC Thunderbolt.
01:01:09
>> The Thunderbolt was the worst one. >> It had What are you talking about?
01:01:12
Thunderbolt was the worst battery life of any phone I've ever used. >> Yes, I agree.
01:01:16
>> They were like, "Let's do 4G and then burn it to the ground." What about the
01:01:19
HTC1 or the HTC 1 M78? I guess. Yeah, those are more light. >> Google Play Edition.
01:01:26
>> I know. >> Those phones were >> Nexus 6P. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we had good
01:01:30
>> Oh, Nexus 6P. >> Good metal phones did exist. >> Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I only made that.
01:01:35
It was my first smartphone, so I guess that's why. Yeah, >> you didn't know better.
01:01:38
>> Yeah. Yeah, I didn't. Well, they didn't have anything better at the time.
01:01:42
>> Yeah. So, they also made headphones. Nothing headphones A. >> Yeah.
01:01:45
>> So, now they have two tiers of headphones. Again, we can assume based on the name that the headphones A, A
01:01:50
again, I haven't tested them. I'm seeing the design and the $100 lower price. We
01:01:53
assume that this is a slightly lowerend set of headphones, but it still has all the nothing design philosophy. There's
01:01:59
some colors as well. >> Yeah. >> Um, they still have some of those clever
01:02:03
buttons, too, that the original Nothing headphones had. I think a lot of people forgot how interesting the Nothing
01:02:08
Headphones were. They had like a paddle. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, they have the
01:02:12
paddle, they have the roller as well >> and the software that talks to them. So,
01:02:16
these headphones still have a lot of that stuff and they have uh seems like a pretty decent Well, eight hours of
01:02:22
playback. Oh, in 5 minutes of charging. Sorry. We don't know what the battery
01:02:25
life is totally. >> Five day battery lasts for 5 days, which could mean a billion different.
01:02:30
>> How many hours of playback? This is the one thing. >> The battery literally dies after 5 days
01:02:34
and you cannot use can't charge it. Yeah, you I guess that's a mixed use
01:02:38
stat, but like with headphones, you can just be like, I turned them on. I hit play. When did they die?
01:02:42
>> Yeah, >> that would be a useful number. >> These, in my opinion, look significantly
01:02:46
worse than the headphones. >> I think I kind of like them more than the regular nothing headphones.
01:02:51
>> I think I just like the clear part on the out. So, it's if you remember the
01:02:55
other nothing headphones, >> they're square and circle. Square outside, circle bump on the inside. This
01:03:01
time >> says two. >> Yeah. Yeah. But the circle part on the nothing ones, the headphone ones is
01:03:06
where the clearness is. >> And then on this, the circle part on top of the square is where the color is. And
01:03:13
the clear part's the square. >> I just think it looks >> So it's like opposite. Um I think it's
01:03:17
just trying to do less. >> Yeah, but it looks way cheaper in my opinion. >> I mean, I think both of them look pretty
01:03:24
cheap. >> Uh >> I don't really love either of them. I love my Nothing earbuds. I will say I I
01:03:30
wear I use the Nothing headphone ones pretty much every day because I've been
01:03:33
using them as ear muffs. Um >> Well, you just use them because those Stranger Things guys use them.
01:03:38
>> Yeah, they're fashionable. >> No, but I get stopped by a lot of people
01:03:41
asking me what they are and people are like, "Oh, it's cool. It look it looks
01:03:44
like a cassette tape inside. It looks like and then they put their AirPods back in and walks bad cuz it's glossy."
01:03:50
>> I disagree. The black is the way to go because they're so minimal. >> You can see the fingerprints so much
01:03:55
more. >> Yeah, but no one knows you're wearing a crazy pair of headphones. The white ones
01:03:58
are like, "Woo, I'm here." The same way with all these colorful ones. It's like
01:04:02
there's so pick me energy. The black ones are the ones >> you are all you just the color doesn't
01:04:07
change the pick me energy on these headphones. >> I disagree. I think it totally does.
01:04:11
>> Bro, I don't know. I think we're all contributing to phone companies only
01:04:15
releasing black and white at the moment. >> These are four different colors.
01:04:19
>> Look at You're telling me. >> No, it looks beautiful. I just would
01:04:22
never wear them in public because it's like going to get double takes. Like people are going to look at you and then
01:04:26
look away and then be like, "Wait, what are those?" >> Cuz how bright they are.
01:04:29
>> The black ones are just headphones. People will look at you and be like,
01:04:31
"Oh, he's wearing headphones." >> But you really think that the A looks
01:04:33
better. >> Uh yeah, >> they look like nothing. >> I kind of one pun. Uh
01:04:39
>> oh my god. Their website is >> infuriating. Oh god. Okay. What I didn't
01:04:43
even know was that there's four colors. >> Oh my god. What is that? Holy m Show
01:04:50
Adam. Okay. saw. You haven't seen the yellow. >> The yellow and pink are just in the
01:04:55
>> So, that's what I'm saying. They're just in the center. >> The yellow and the pink ones. I think I
01:04:59
like the colors, but I do not like the headphones. >> They look so bad. >> The white and black ones are fine.
01:05:04
>> They're unbelievably ugly. >> Also, I just want to say I just went to
01:05:08
the PC Mag website where they have an article about these headphones and they're saying the 5day battery life is
01:05:14
135 hours straight of play time. >> That's what it says on the Verge, too.
01:05:19
>> So, cont die in 5 days. >> Just for context, a normal I does this
01:05:26
have ANC is the other question. >> Yes, it does. >> So, a normal ANC set of headphones
01:05:30
flagships are getting 30 40 the really good ones 50 and in some insane cases 70 to 80. Like I think the Dyson headphones
01:05:38
had a crazy big battery and did 80. 135 is unheard of for A&C headphones. >> That does seem like a lot.
01:05:45
>> I need to investigate. >> That's only with the AAC codec though.
01:05:48
If you as soon as you switch to LDAC or any other lossless thing that it has built in, you're going to cut that in.
01:05:52
>> Yeah. >> So they cherry picked 135 hours with the lesser codec and ANC off. That's how
01:05:57
they got this number. >> If you do LDAC and ANC on, it's 62. >> Oh, that's okay. That see how the
01:06:03
context makes more. Okay. That that Okay, got it. >> Yeah. So if you're willing to have it
01:06:09
sound like ass, then you can get a lot better. >> Hot. You can't tell.
01:06:14
>> You David, I guarantee you you cannot tell. >> I know. Okay. I've been pumping AAC into
01:06:18
your headphones this whole time. You have no clue. >> Sound like ass. You You're listening to
01:06:23
a AAC in your headphones right now. David, >> I almost brought this and I wish I did.
01:06:28
>> I'm kidding. >> Fender released a bunch of new stuff recently. They I don't know if you
01:06:32
remember this. A year and a half ago, you had me take a Fender briefing for you. These guys?
01:06:38
>> Yeah. >> Okay. And they released >> My cousin just did air guitar.
01:06:42
>> Air guitar. >> I've heard of Fender. They were announcing like new headphones and some
01:06:47
new speakers like wireless speakers that are also amps >> and they got bought by by a like a
01:06:54
Chinese company or something and they decided to make the brand like way better and they sent a year and a half
01:06:59
ago is when I had this briefing and then yesterday on my front porch arrives an enormous box
01:07:07
enormous like huge and I was like what the hell is this and one of them was a pair of headphones wireless ireless
01:07:14
headphones from Fender. >> And inside of the left ear cup, they have a dongle, a USBC dongle that you
01:07:20
plug into any device, and it allows you to do uh it allows you to do lossless audio.
01:07:25
>> When you say inside the ear cup, you mean like >> like you take the you take the ear plush
01:07:31
thing off and then there's a dongle inside that you can take out and you can
01:07:35
put it in your laptop or in your phone. >> Okay. >> And it allows you to listen to lossless
01:07:41
audio. Oh, >> and there's three modes. There's like there's like AAC, there's lossless, and
01:07:46
then there's um OraCast, which allows you to basically transmit the same signal like audio signal to multiple
01:07:53
headphones. >> It's actually kind of interesting. >> It's interesting. And then they they're
01:07:56
also insanely repairable. Like the other side has a you can take this off and replace the battery. Like they're sort
01:08:01
of trying to be like the Fairphone headphones, the Fairbuds XL in a lot of ways. Um why did I bring this up? I
01:08:10
brought this up related to these headphones for a reason. >> Is it because they're lossless and
01:08:14
wireless battery life? >> Because of the audio codec >> because why you talked about it?
01:08:18
>> I guess just wanted to flex on us, man. >> No, I a possible embargo.
01:08:24
>> Cuz he's wearing the white headphones all the time. So >> I had a reason for this. Well, anyway,
01:08:30
that it was interesting. I'll bring it in next week. I'll show you. >> Sure. I'll show you.
01:08:33
>> That's cool. That's kind of like Yeah. You can do Bluetooth on the MXM 4S or
01:08:36
you can plug in the dongle and get like a connection. >> Right. Right. Right. All right. So, it
01:08:40
was interesting. >> I got something to say. >> Say it. Say it. >> Last time we talked about the Nothing
01:08:44
headphones, like when they came out and I wore them on the podcast and I was just sort of like, "Come on, guys. Who
01:08:49
cares?" You know, I sort of gave him I have revised that opinion because I personally feel that the
01:08:59
wireless overhear ANC headphone space since that conversation has turned into such garbage.
01:09:09
um that actually I find myself recommending the nothing over your headphones more than most other things.
01:09:16
>> They're 500 bucks. >> They're 300 bucks. >> Oh. >> And that and that's so that's the first
01:09:20
reason is that most things in this space are like crazy overpriced. The headphones that I use every day, the
01:09:27
Focal Batiste, >> I mean >> dummy overpriced. >> Sure. But that's like
01:09:32
>> my Maserati the Wilkins like PX8 whatever >> those are like >> way overpriced. They do not sound
01:09:42
significantly better than these. >> Yeah. >> I think >> every single year the Sony WHX whatever
01:09:49
sound progressively worse and worse. And like the newest ones, whatever number we're on, I just think are like
01:09:54
borderline unlistable. They sound so bad. >> Wa. That's a hotter take.
01:09:59
>> That's a hot take. I they sound he's been whiner. >> I consistently choose them over AirPods
01:10:03
Max despite the worst connectivity cuz I think they sound >> I think if you're looking You think they
01:10:07
sound better than AirPods for flying? I think >> well we got to talk about that because
01:10:13
that doesn't even the to me the the the Sony's are so midforward and they have
01:10:19
so much distortion in the mids that if you're trying to use them for like any
01:10:24
sort of clinical listening they're like it's it's the equivalent of like rubbing
01:10:28
Vaseline on a lens like >> for clinical listening. >> Yeah. Is that your problem?
01:10:32
>> Like a doctor podcast. >> No no no no no. Like if you were trying
01:10:35
to like if you were trying to like listen to something and be like does this sound right, you know what I mean?
01:10:40
For any sort of like obviously like I'm coming at this from a different thing,
01:10:44
but like I don't I I don't enjoy listening to them. >> I think you enjoy listening to music
01:10:47
differently than people. >> Sure. I think the Sony's probably sound excit Anyway, what I'm trying to say is
01:10:53
like for the money >> Yeah. >> and expensive, too. >> For the for the money and the feature
01:10:58
set, I think that nothing's actually like some one of the most competitive offerings. And you know something really
01:11:03
funny cuz I obviously get asked way too often like what headphones should I buy >> and so I've been recommending the
01:11:09
nothings more and more and more and I have not gotten a single person to buy them. Oh, interesting.
01:11:14
>> Because of the aesthetic, the way they look, >> every single person I've been like, I
01:11:17
think this is the best bang for like >> also because like Bose quality, like the
01:11:22
obviously the noise cancelling Bose offers is still like really really terrific, but like sound quality, I
01:11:27
can't really say the quiet comforts aren't super competitive anymore. So,
01:11:31
it's like yeah, like this is kind of kind of the jam and no one wants the Nothing.
01:11:36
>> The two thing I hate about the Nothing headphones is that the ANC basically
01:11:39
does not exist. like is it is a feature that I don't hear it almost at all. >> The the Bowowers and Wilkins are the
01:11:46
same way and the Focals are the same way and those are both twice the price. >> Okay. So, it's like
01:11:50
>> the I don't love the audio quality on the Nothing headphones either. It kind
01:11:53
of it feels like everything is like a very it's like it feels like it's trying
01:11:57
to force like a spatial audio thing all the time. Okay. And you can't turn it
01:12:02
off. >> If there is a sometimes they do have the nothing that's on. >> Maybe it's in the nothing. probably
01:12:07
>> I feel like with the nothings it's like you get clear highs that are not
01:12:12
piercing. You get clear mids that are not like blurring everything else in this in the the sound the sonic field
01:12:19
and then you get good decent enough lows and the transient response is good and music sounds like the way it mostly
01:12:28
should on those things. >> Um so >> show me a graph where I don't believe
01:12:33
you. No, no, no, no. >> All right. And and uh >> shoot, I wish I brought in these these
01:12:39
uh >> these uh >> nothing. >> I was going to say the other headphones
01:12:42
that I I haven't tried, but I people I trust say are like pretty decent are the
01:12:46
the Marshall headphones, the the Monitor 3s, >> which are about the same price as these.
01:12:51
Anyway, this is all to say that I'm excited to try these headphone A's just
01:12:55
because the longer I've like observed the space, the more I've been like,
01:12:59
damn, I was really not fair to the original nothing headphones. They really are a cool offering.
01:13:06
>> Bring Yeah. I'm going to bring in the Fender next week for you to try cuz they
01:13:09
look very normal and they also cost $300 and they have lossless audio and Ora and
01:13:15
all this cool stuff and see is way better than nothing. The Sony's. >> Yeah,
01:13:20
>> the Sony's are sound so bad that um >> How bad do they >> that when I I finally confronted Rich
01:13:29
and I was like you have to stop editing on these >> because you're on because you're missing
01:13:35
you're missing so much like you're missing you're not hearing so much
01:13:39
stuff. And I gave him the Bowers and Wilkins which are not that much better headphones. Like they sound pretty bad
01:13:45
in my opinion too. And he it was literally like, "Oh my god, like I can hear the room. I can hear these
01:13:52
qualities in their voices." Like the Sony's literally are unable to recreate
01:13:55
these sounds. >> Interesting. Yeah, I would definitely not edit on them. I I usually think of
01:13:59
like the types of headphones. I think of like the the listen music listening fun
01:14:03
headphones, V-shaped, graph, all that fun stuff. And then like the more reference headphones and I've I firmly
01:14:07
put the Sony ones in the like music listening fun headphones thing. I guess my my different like what like picture
01:14:14
me telling you the video equivalent of this Marquez like picture me being like dude I have this display the blacks are
01:14:20
bright as hell the whites are not bright there's no color accuracy but it's just
01:14:24
so much fun to watch movies you know >> that's actually how TVs are >> watch movies dude
01:14:29
>> that's how I would never edit on a TV I would never edit on a TV >> no we we watch this we we all think this
01:14:35
looks everyone thinks this looks bad there's entire subreddits that are like
01:14:38
here like here's how you turn off all the stuff on your TV. But if you walk into a store and they all have all those
01:14:45
settings turned on, you buy the one that has all them turned on cuz it looks better.
01:14:48
>> Yeah, the punchy one. >> Yeah, they're like that's why they turn
01:14:50
it on. That's what people do why it's turned on. >> Am I just like so off base here that
01:14:56
this is classic? No, you're too plugged in. You care too much. >> When the when you've listened to 30
01:15:03
pairs of headphones and you know the nuance differences between them, it's easy to to like evaluate that way. I
01:15:09
know what I like. You know, there's there's that, too. There's some personal.
01:15:12
>> But I think there's I think there's a lot of people shopping for headphones
01:15:14
that are just like, "All right, I'm going to fly with these." So, I need uh
01:15:17
step one, good build, step two, good battery, step three, good noise cancellation, and then as long as they
01:15:21
sound pretty good, I'm happy. >> And that is kind of the Sony's. You're
01:15:23
right. But this is like five or 600 bucks. >> They've gone up, but they're not that
01:15:27
high. I think they're under four still. I think they're under four. >> I still think getting the older versions
01:15:32
is a better deal, but >> I agree with that. But they they stopped folding for some reason for the last
01:15:38
gen. And I have >> 460 >> 460. >> What? >> The Mark 6. >> Yeah, remember they went up.
01:15:45
>> They went up in price this year. >> 460. >> Yeah, they're hella expensive
01:15:49
>> for headphones that sound like the music is coming out of a bee's hole.
01:15:54
>> I remember when they were like 330 then they were for that. >> That is not what they sound like.
01:16:01
>> Not bad. That's like the engine. >> Yeah. Like Next up, >> that's what the Sony's sound like.
01:16:11
>> No, they don't. >> They do not sound that bad. They sound pretty good.
01:16:16
>> Someone I guarantee someone is listening to this podcast on a pair of Sony's.
01:16:20
They're going to be like, I can't hear the difference. That's just what Wait,
01:16:22
that just sounds like what it sounds like all the time. >> Oh my god, you are so hard on me.
01:16:26
>> I did forget that they were 460. I thought they were more cuz they AirPods
01:16:30
Max are like $550 and they don't lower the price and then all the others start
01:16:34
to creep up in price cuz they're all competing and then Apple comes out and seems to enable $500 headphones. Now the
01:16:38
350 ones are 400 and 450. So it's all creeping up which is valid that the nothing headphones are only 3000. That's
01:16:45
really nice. >> But yeah. >> Well, and the headphones a are 1990 and
01:16:51
they see how they sound. It's hard for me to tell exactly from the website, but
01:16:54
it seems like you can bypass a bunch of the digital stuff with the 3.5 millimeter connection, which is
01:17:00
something that a lot of headphones actually you can't do anymore. >> I just not have one.
01:17:04
>> I just want to say if you want to yell at Ellis Roven on X, >> like I'm so sorry.
01:17:12
>> I'm like genuinely so sorry if I offended you and you like the Sony's.
01:17:14
Like I do really believe like the best headphones are the ones that you like. They're the one. That's so true for for
01:17:22
headphones and earbuds. It's like the best. Don't let anyone tell you that the
01:17:26
ones that you like are bad. >> You just did. >> I personally just feel like I was going
01:17:32
to say >> you're missing on a rant about those. >> They sound like a bees.
01:17:39
>> What's But if they sold them for $100, I'd be like, "That's amazing." I'd be
01:17:44
like, "You have to go buy these. These are the best." But it's like
01:17:46
>> I go on I will say I'm on a lot of flights and I I tend to like look around
01:17:50
and notice all the headphones people are wearing and there's first of all tons
01:17:53
and tons of AirPods and I know they're $500 headphones and I'm always amazed at
01:17:57
how many AirPods there are and maybe that's cuz I'm flying out of Newark but
01:18:00
then two there's a ton of bows and Sony and I know they're not the the Bose
01:18:03
especially it's like I know they're not the best sounding but they sell them in
01:18:06
the airport vending machine and they're designed to be four flights and they
01:18:10
have tons of&c and they have the adapter in the box and >> apparently the newest ones actually
01:18:15
sound pretty good. >> Yeah, Bose Bose is a historic like Bose is an R&D company first. You know what I
01:18:20
mean? Like they put a lot of effort into this, >> but like the old Quiet Comforts had
01:18:23
pretty ass audio quality with just really good ANC. >> Yeah, but were they bees ass audio
01:18:27
quality? >> I don't I don't know if I can cosign that that statement. Um, you know,
01:18:31
there's >> there's a there's a funny thing in audio where like you know the like the like
01:18:36
mimi bell curve with like the angry dumb guy on one side and the angry genius guy
01:18:41
on the other side and like >> it's with everything. Well, no, but with
01:18:44
with headphones, it's like the I don't know anything about audio, blah, blah,
01:18:48
blah. Use AirPods. And then you have everyone arguing in the middle about what's best. And then like everyone I
01:18:54
know who's like a super esteemed, knowledgeable audio engineer, like super techy, really knows their stuff.
01:19:00
>> It's AirPods. It's like, and they wouldn't even consider using anything
01:19:03
else. >> No, it's it's the same in pretty much everything in note takingaking apps.
01:19:07
Same with c with photos. I'll have people that are like, "Oh, look at this
01:19:10
awesome picture." And it's like the worst picture I've ever seen. Like the
01:19:14
HDR is just like, >> "Did you shoot this from a bee's? What is this?"
01:19:20
>> Cuz it sounds like the sound is coming out of a really skinny tube. That's what
01:19:24
I was trying to >> I was just saying. >> I can't wait for the new merch.
01:19:30
>> Bele merch. >> The m the area under the curve of people that really like ass
01:19:38
is high as >> it is. In fact, >> I'm not going to understand what you
01:19:44
just said cuz it's getting bleeped entirely. >> I'm going to I'm going to leave whole so
01:19:49
people know. >> All of the most But you're right. Every category, all of the most mid products
01:19:53
in the middle are all fighting each other. And then the just like thoughtless product on each end is
01:19:58
probably the one most people should get and that's fine cuz you don't want to
01:20:00
think about it. >> Yes. >> Ellis is just saying though that thoughtless product on each end should
01:20:05
be the nothing headphones. No, >> Carl Pay will clip that. >> I'm saying I'm saying I'm saying Carl,
01:20:14
you know, I got on I got over there right where Andrew is sitting and did not give you a fair shot and and I
01:20:20
apologize and I and I have since come around, >> but but it's an it's a great it it fits
01:20:27
in to the the product lineup >> really well at a competitive price with competitive offerings. I don't know
01:20:33
about all that. You got to use the app stuff. But that part black >> the new nothing headphones. A It looks
01:20:40
like you have a pair of AirPods that are glued to the side of a square. >> It would be sick if you could pull a
01:20:46
pair of earbuds out of that. >> That would be cool. That's what they look like except they're going
01:20:51
>> all this to say, we should get these here. We should listen to them. We
01:20:53
should put them on Ellis's head and have them live react to them. >> Yes. Should see if we can get 135 hours
01:20:59
of listening. >> Yeah. I want to try them because I want to see how often people stare at me with
01:21:03
them and then just take them off and don't want to be the person being stared
01:21:06
at anymore. >> Yeah, they're $100 cheaper. I don't know if we said that.
01:21:09
>> Yeah, >> somewhere in in there we did mention it and but >> yeah,
01:21:14
>> probably got lost. >> All right. All right. Well, we do have a little bit more to talk about after the
01:21:18
break. So, before that break trivia like nothing's nothing's design team
01:21:24
simultaneously cooked and like got cooked. >> Okay, question two. Speaking of nothing,
01:21:30
the first video ever uploaded to nothing's YouTube channel was uploaded when? Closest without going over.
01:21:38
>> Wasn't it just like a prank video? >> It was a hype video. It was definitely a
01:21:42
>> like a ladybug and a prank lady. It was like 8 to 12 months before they launched
01:21:47
their first product. >> What? It was irrelevant. When it was >> relevant,
01:21:53
>> is this closest delta or closest without going over? We'll brainstorm that a little
01:21:58
bit. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back. Uh, really quick here because we spent a really
01:22:12
long time talking about bees there. Um, >> I got bees, boy. >> We've talked multiple times about how
01:22:17
like AI overviews and whatever are going to really uh screw up page views and journalists getting paid and reviewers
01:22:25
getting paid. And we saw that happen this week with the website ratings or rings um is how it's spelled out. But
01:22:33
they had to kind of make a huge change to their website. They are uh they're
01:22:37
known for doing super in-depth reviews on a lot of things, tech included, one of the largest. But
01:22:42
>> like so in-depth that when you're shopping for a printer, you can compare
01:22:45
printers by cost per page or like pages per hour or cost per hour at max flow, you know, like Yeah. Like they're the
01:22:53
ones. >> Yeah. It's deep. And it's like they're doing it with different equipment on a
01:22:57
lot of different things to be able to test these. So that obviously costs money, but um previously it was free and
01:23:03
now they had to make a pretty large change to make uh the full in-depth reviews of everything behind a payw
01:23:11
wall. Uh it is now $10 a month or $45 a year. But the most interesting thing about this uh announcement was an a
01:23:21
section of their release saying why we're making this change. It says, "Ratings.com has historically relied
01:23:26
heavily on organic search traffic from Google and affiliate links. That model is becoming less reliable. Fewer people
01:23:31
click through Google organic results than they used to. At the same time, AI actively scrapes and reuses our test
01:23:36
results, often without attribution and without the context needed to interpret them correctly. That's like a huge thing
01:23:42
by itself, interpreting things correctly." Yeah. >> Uh, meanwhile, performing lab-based and
01:23:47
in-depth testing is expensive. We buy every product ourselves like normal consumers. No paid or sponsored reviews.
01:23:52
Test them using standardized repeatable methods and publish the full test results transparently. A membership
01:23:58
supported model reduces our dependency on Google. Limits unrestricted AI scraping for our test results and gives
01:24:02
us incentives that are more sustainable and aligned with our customers. So, this
01:24:08
>> sucks but is necessary, I guess, is the easiest way of putting it. It stinks for
01:24:12
all the people who want to just go to their website and support them, but also like I don't know, not many people are
01:24:19
going to pay $10 to just go for a month or pay $45 a year for a reviewing website because you don't buy things
01:24:28
that often. Lots of times you're just like in the pinch of comparing things and want to go check it.
01:24:34
>> Yeah. >> So, this is a tough look. >> This is part of the inevitable death of
01:24:39
SEO and the web. I mean, every website for the longest time. Adam and I used to work at Android Authority and we were
01:24:44
privy to a lot of the SEO that the people would have to talk about all the time. And it it basically equated to
01:24:51
Google makes all of these changes constantly that you have to adapt to. Often times when you're adapting to it,
01:24:58
making these changes makes your website worse, but if you don't, then Google
01:25:02
will derank your website because you are optimizing the way you show up in Google
01:25:06
search. >> Yeah. And with the speed of which this stuff is changing, especially with AI
01:25:10
overviews and all of this stuff, now you have the additional factor of having to
01:25:14
like adapt to what the AI overview shows. If it chooses your website to show in the AI overview, if it chooses
01:25:20
you to show in Gemini when Gemini gives uh gives sources and stuff like that. >> And I mean, there's a reason a lot of
01:25:27
websites are moving to paid. The Verge moved to paid about a year ago. That was a pretty major change. It made their web
01:25:32
traffic really sink a lot. But they are making a lot more money on subscriptions. I just think the entire
01:25:38
internet is moving more towards direct to creator payments because SEO is just kind of dying very rapidly.
01:25:45
>> So I think I'm like thinking out loud here. This I think this is my real beef
01:25:49
with AI overviews. I know I know Ellis like it's the accuracy and there's a
01:25:53
bunch of other things are wrong about it but >> I think it's because the like it it so
01:25:59
fundamentally removes the incentives to make good stuff right so before and I there's you know the ratings video kind
01:26:06
of illustrates this perfectly but like when you make good stuff and you optimize for people to find that good
01:26:12
stuff Google and all the search engines when people are in the buying process will funnel you will funnel those people
01:26:18
to find your stuff. >> Yeah. And so you make the stuff because people find it and you get paid from the
01:26:23
ads and the cycle continues. So you're incentivized to make good stuff so that
01:26:26
more people find it. Now you make good stuff. That stuff gets scraped by AI overview. And when people start to go
01:26:35
through that buying process, they find the AI overview and they never find your stuff. So the only incentive you have to
01:26:41
make good stuff is to be the source for the AI overview to be good. And you don't get any credit for that and you
01:26:46
don't get paid for that. So the incentive is effectively gone. Yeah. >> So, think about that. The effect the the
01:26:52
incentive to make good stuff is gone. Now, why would you make any more stuff? It's almost like we've decided, all
01:26:59
right, the entire corpus of human knowledge is complete. We need nothing more to be new. We will just be trained
01:27:04
on the old stuff. That is that is my that's a bummer. This is a concern that
01:27:09
we talked about at the very beginning of this. We literally said, "What happens
01:27:13
when there is no incentive to go to a website because the answers are all on Google?" And like, "Why would you make
01:27:20
content if people are not going to go to your page and you can't get paid for
01:27:23
it?" And then the AI has nothing to grab from. Like that that is the question
01:27:26
that we asked 3 years ago and now it's actually hitting websites really hard.
01:27:31
Yeah. So, we're seeing like the Verge and ratings and like adding membership
01:27:35
programs because there are still enthusiasts willing to support the creation of good stuff and you know the
01:27:40
membership program is maybe the most ideal way to do that. I subscribe to The Verge. to read a lot of these things,
01:27:45
but it's often like >> uh like Wire Cutter for example, I brought up earlier or off camera, but
01:27:49
like when I'm about to buy a blender and I'm doing my six hours of way too much
01:27:54
research to buy the perfect blender, that's when I'm deep in the ratings and
01:27:58
the wire cutter and the Verge and reading blender reviews. >> Yeah. >> And then once that's over, I'm not going
01:28:04
to read another Blender review for years. That stuff I'm not going to do that. So, it's hard to get people to
01:28:09
support and to, you know, spend regularly on something when it seems like there's the incentive is gone.
01:28:14
>> This is specifically hard because I don't think a lot of people are Yeah.
01:28:17
reading ratings for fun. Like we don't, we are part entertainment, right? So,
01:28:21
like people see our reviews, but we're also entertainment. So, that's not
01:28:25
getting hit as hard. But like this kind of stuff that is just like >> numbers and what prints per minute or
01:28:31
Marquez's smoothies per hour and his blender likeuge. >> This is not the stuff you read for fun.
01:28:36
This is the stuff you read for a purpose. And when you don't have that purpose, it's really hard to pay monthly
01:28:41
or yearly on it. Even though >> I don't know if you were like buying a
01:28:44
new house and equipping it for the next year, maybe 45 bucks for the year wouldn't be bad. But that's not a great
01:28:49
business model to be like, "Cool, every time someone buys a house, we'll get one
01:28:53
year of uh a subscription." So this I feel bad for ratings. This is just absolutely probably tanking there.
01:29:00
>> It's very tough for stuff like this. There's um there's an interesting graph
01:29:03
and also a chart as Marquez like to call out. Yes. >> That shows the decline of peak traffic
01:29:09
on tech websites year-over-year. And it's it's pretty nasty. Like all of
01:29:14
these numbers are really high. And it's only a oneyear graph. >> 2024. Yeah. To now, I guess. Year and a
01:29:21
half. So March 2024, Digital Trends got 8.5 million peak traffic. January 26, they got 264,000.
01:29:31
That's a decline of 97%. >> That was a rounding error in their previous number.
01:29:36
>> Now it's their entire traffic is crazy. >> Yeah. >> I mean, this is going to decimate
01:29:40
websites on the internet because the same way that Facebook video when it decided to not be a thing anymore, like
01:29:46
ruined Buzzfeed basically. >> Yeah. >> This is what Google SEO is doing to all
01:29:50
the internets that have built businesses being the source of information. Well, what's crazy is like I think a lot of
01:29:55
these websites like well services like Google they they just sort of think social media is free information and I
01:30:02
think in their head if you take the average of all information about one topic you get closer to a source of
01:30:10
truth right because there's signal to noise hopefully you have more signal than you have noise and if you take a
01:30:15
billion sources hopefully you have the right data and I think all of these services and websites are just kind of
01:30:21
like why do we have to pay websites when You know, we could social media is free
01:30:25
like quote unquote journalism or information and you can just theoretically get closer to a source of
01:30:32
truth, >> but that really just it destroys the internet as we know it currently. So,
01:30:38
it's not good. >> We talk doesn't give good information for the most part.
01:30:41
>> Yeah. I mean, there's a reason why there are certain trusted sources because they
01:30:44
have processes in place that will take away the noise. I agree with you, but I I think that they just think that on a
01:30:50
on a numbers basis, if you have 1 billion people talking about a thing, the average is always higher to truth.
01:30:56
That that's exactly what poly markets like, you know, all of these guys, they
01:31:01
say like, "Oh, we can predict what's going to happen because people are
01:31:04
putting their money towards this thing because they this many people think it'll happen and that means it will
01:31:09
probably happen." I don't know if that's true or not. Uh there's a zillion
01:31:13
problems with that, but um either way, >> the average number of arms per human is
01:31:18
less than two. That's taking all the data about all humans ever. The average
01:31:23
number of arms. Just saying. Sometimes that logic can be flawed. >> It's I just don't think
01:31:29
that was a fire exam. Just saying. I just they don't all just think hard enough about stuff like this because
01:31:35
they just want to get their >> I disagree. I think they know they don't
01:31:39
know, dude. Google At a certain point though, this is going to screw themselves when their AI can't scrape
01:31:44
things anymore because no one's making no one can get paid to make the >> everyone is making stuff all the time
01:31:50
for free >> on social media, >> I guess. But now that that level of what
01:31:54
we get is worse and then >> Oh yeah. >> And then it just all turns into nothing
01:31:59
when the free stuff is that's being made is >> doesn't mean anything. Nothing was the
01:32:04
last segment where I >> we've talked >> I just remember we talked to somebody
01:32:10
who made an AI product. Uh I won't name them but we brought this up to him and
01:32:15
he said I don't think you guys should have any worries. You make really good
01:32:18
stuff. And I was like I'm not talking about us. I'm talking about like these
01:32:22
people the people who are doing the in-depth web textbased reviews and like that. And it felt like he'd never heard
01:32:29
that before. >> Yeah. >> It's gone. It's This stuff is going to
01:32:32
be gone. >> This Yeah, this feels similar. I I went to Claw Con last night. Um who
01:32:38
>> you know Cladbot? We talked about Cloudbot. >> Open Claw. >> Open Claw. Sorry. You remember OpenClaw?
01:32:42
We talked about Open. I went to >> Is that the one where everyone dresses up as Santa and like goes around the
01:32:46
city? >> I thought that was somehow worse. >> Somehow worse. Everybody did have um
01:32:52
lobster hats on. >> Okay. But the people I talked to primarily were like, "Oh yeah, well you
01:32:57
can just like create your own apps and blah blah blah and everything." thing
01:32:59
and I was like, "Okay, but what happens when all the ser people don't need to
01:33:02
use any services anymore because they can just spin up their own services?"
01:33:05
And they're like, "Well, that's fine." It's like, "Okay, but then how do people
01:33:08
make money?" Like, "Well, you can sell your apps that you make." And I'm like,
01:33:11
>> "But no one will buy it because they can all make >> people get money so they can pay for
01:33:16
housing and food." >> Those are the primary things I think you're forgetting that people need.
01:33:21
>> Yeah. >> Similar to this. >> How often did you run into that the like
01:33:26
meme of like you should try Open Claw? It's awesome. Cool. What do you do? It's
01:33:30
really cool. I use it every day. Oh, yeah. But what are you making? You're going to get left behind.
01:33:34
>> That's exactly why I went to to the conference. And I did find some pretty
01:33:40
insane use cases that people were using with for I did have to actually talk to people because the actual event where
01:33:45
they talked about everything that was going on. They had a bunch of speakers. All of them were just OpenClaw rappers
01:33:51
to try to sell you like an easier way to use it, >> which is very ironic. Yeah, I know. They
01:33:56
also did have a rapper there. They did have a route. It was very Silicon Valley, I will tell you.
01:34:00
>> Anyway, um there were some use cases. Either way, >> I'm sort of just equating that to this
01:34:06
because it's like >> I understand the revenue generation angle, but you're not thinking far
01:34:14
enough into the future where it's like why would people buy use your service
01:34:18
and buy your thing if you're taking away if you're giving everyone the ability to
01:34:23
have the service and the thing? >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? I don't know
01:34:27
democratization in a way is like good but also bad sometimes >> we uh this is not I guess it's it's sort
01:34:35
of a unique situation but I I do have sort of like faith that god forbid like we do lose things like ratings and the
01:34:42
verge and like these places that do give these like really important honest reviews Tom good mashable that the
01:34:48
pendulum will swing back in the other direction um I'm mostly thinking about
01:34:55
consumer reports which I think is a little bit more safe because they're a nonprofit and they get
01:35:00
a lot of money through donations. >> Um, and you know, a big part of the founding of Consumer Reports in the late
01:35:09
20s, early 30s was like this period of time where corporations could just were literally killing people with their
01:35:16
products and and there was like not really any like consumer protection ability. And I'm not saying like we're
01:35:22
going to go all the way back there where like you don't know if your the product
01:35:25
if this blender you're going to buy is going to end your life or not. Um but I
01:35:31
you know we we could get close to back there and and it'll necessitate like we'll need some way to know. I think
01:35:38
Google would probably say enough people are truthful, but I don't. >> But they're not. Well, no. No.
01:35:44
>> And I'm saying what I'm saying what Google would say. >> Like if you know, God forbid. Did you
01:35:49
guys watch the Hank Green video, the hourlong AI? Like the thing that he said about how like there's a world where
01:35:56
>> we we lose access to like all of Google and all of and and all of our information is gained through some sort
01:36:02
of like LLM interface. And at that point, there's literally no way to know what's true because you'll have three
01:36:08
sources of truth, you know, anthropic, OpenAI, and Google. And whatever they want you to believe, there's you'll have
01:36:17
literally no way to fact check it, you know. Um, so when you're like, is this
01:36:20
the best blender? You know, Google will decide what the best blender is and and sell you that one.
01:36:26
>> Open AI will serve you an ad. >> Yeah. There there was like a period of
01:36:28
time, remember, where like auto car companies were genuinely telling consumers like your car will be worse
01:36:34
with seat belts in it. >> Like remember like that was like like we've been there before. There's nothing
01:36:39
stopping us from going back there. And so I do have faith that eventually like >> this is just a thing that we need in a
01:36:45
developed society and somehow someway we as a as a populace will hopefully figure
01:36:51
it out. >> People still do value quality and this has been sort of the ultimate debate
01:36:55
that people have been talking about like with AI slop will that actually make quality more valuable and people will
01:37:01
gravitate towards the quality we don't really know yet we're still too early in
01:37:05
the stage >> I think that obviously people go towards the lowest friction generally so there
01:37:11
will be a lot of slop that will be consumed >> but the big question is will people also
01:37:16
seek out the quality stuff which will still find a way to exist um either way it seems like most of these websites
01:37:22
really are going to start moving towards subscription models I see the value in the verge moving towards has a
01:37:27
subscription model. I think a lot of people like to read news is like the money maker for them. I don't know how
01:37:33
Artings or Ratings has a subscription model and uses that to exist. >> Do you know how farm co-ops work? I feel
01:37:39
like this is the this is how we should figure this out where like like let's
01:37:42
say and I'm not a farmer so please let me know if I get some of this wrong but
01:37:46
my understanding is like if you live in like South Dakota, right? and you live in this place where like there's a bunch
01:37:51
of independent farmers and you all grow corn. You know, you could try to set up business deals with corn distributors
01:37:58
and people who are going to use your corn. Or you could establish a co-op and all the farmers drop their corn off at
01:38:04
this mutually owned place and then the co-op is the one that handles selling all the corn. Yeah. And you just get
01:38:10
paid off. You know, you you with the the co-op consortium decides on how much they're going to sell the corn for and
01:38:15
then you divide the things. That'd be a cool way to do these sort of reviews,
01:38:18
right? is like is like you have like one place you go for all of these sites independent testing, you know, and you
01:38:25
pay for that collectively. We all pay for that and then that money can get distributed.
01:38:30
>> There was a cool um service that Twitter owned before uh it got bought >> Vine.
01:38:36
>> No. Well, I don't I don't know if that was cool or not. >> Uh it created it created the Paul
01:38:41
brothers. Um, regardless of that, they had this service where you could pay like a $5
01:38:48
fee and it would allow you to if you clicked a link on Twitter for a website that had a payw wall, it would let you
01:38:55
like read it without the payw wall or like it would remove all the banner ads or whatever. And it was a super cool
01:39:00
idea and I don't know if it was working or not. >> They had this scalable thing where it
01:39:05
was like >> the more websites that got on the more it would distribute the money. So
01:39:09
obviously the more websites the less money. News is another great >> Yeah, Apple News is a good example of
01:39:14
that, too. >> I don't know if either of those services took advantage of these platforms, but
01:39:17
to me, like instead of being like >> like with Marquez, it's like, dude, I
01:39:21
don't I don't need to pay for Blender honesty 24/7, you know? But if I I do
01:39:27
need to pay for product honesty 24/7. And so, if there was some sort of consortium here,
01:39:31
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's sad that we have to start thinking about these things like this is
01:39:36
what Sam Alman's always being like is like in a world without money, how do we
01:39:40
give people UBI or whatever. It's like I don't like to Why are you forcing this
01:39:45
world on us right now? Um yeah, it's sad. Anyway, you should subscribe to I you should subscribe to news that you
01:39:52
care about and websites that you care about. I think that's kind of the crux
01:39:55
of it. If you're willing to subscribe to like Netflix or HBO Max, like think
01:40:00
about your con like the the quality of your content consumption and what actually matters to you in your regular
01:40:05
life. And it's important to give news. >> We were a few days away from those being
01:40:10
the same company. >> We were >> and yet something worse happened. >> Oracle is now
01:40:16
>> Oracle's son dad. >> Yeah, son. I'll throw one more sad thing
01:40:21
in here in the >> sad part of this, but of uh if you own uh Meta Ray-B bands, you should probably
01:40:28
read the article uh that just came out about them and the video camera on it. We definitely don't have time to talk
01:40:34
about. In fact, the ratings thing I thought was going to be the least depressing thing we could have talked
01:40:37
about and it definitely was not true. But yeah, uh if you have these, go read them. Maybe we'll talk about it next
01:40:42
week. But >> you probably cover the cameras. >> Yeah. But uh we probably should get you
01:40:49
to trivia because Adam and Ellis need to edit this very fast to come out by tomorrow.
01:40:57
>> You need one. >> Trivia. Dude, >> I've got a marker. >> When the when the death bots come for
01:41:03
us, I'm going to do a trivia question like the band on the Titanic going down
01:41:08
with the ship. That's going to be that's going to be my final gift to humanity.
01:41:11
Guys, the MacBook Neo is here. None of us knew it was coming until it came. And uh you know, so how many other tech
01:41:21
products can you guys name with the word Neo in it? You get one point per product. You guys got mad at me because
01:41:29
I made the questions too hard and you weren't scoring. So this is literally a
01:41:32
waterfall of points available for you guys. You could literally bathe in the points.
01:41:37
>> I only have one and it's >> dude. And I'm going to be so It doesn't
01:41:40
matter. I'm going to be really lenient. hardware, software. If it uses electricity in any way and it has the
01:41:47
letters neo consecutively in it, I will be fine. >> Oh my god. >> How many did you guys get? You guys were
01:41:55
running pretty good. >> You definitely don't have the same thing I have.
01:41:58
>> All right. >> Go to bed. >> Flip them and read. What do you got?
01:42:01
>> Okay. >> All right. Who wants to go first? Who wants to go first?
01:42:04
>> Um, I'll go. I wrote Neopets. >> I'll accept that answer.
01:42:10
>> I didn't think about that. The nothing headphone one. N E O N E. Damn,
01:42:16
>> dude. You know, at this point, whatever. >> It's yours, bro. >> Clever enough to deserve the point.
01:42:22
>> I wrote four things. >> Let's see it. >> I wrote the Surface Neo.
01:42:25
>> The point's yours. Great. >> All right. I put uh a Neo, that like
01:42:29
phone company. A Neo or whatever it is. >> A Y A Neo Neo. >> They make portable gaming consoles.
01:42:36
Yeah. >> Okay. I'll give you that point even though you spelled it wrong. Um, Neowin,
01:42:40
which is the tech website. >> Oh, >> yep. That exists. You get it. >> Uh, and Neon,
01:42:46
>> if you can tell me. >> This is like the It's a technology. If
01:42:49
>> you can tell me what >> No, it's a noble gas. >> Yeah, it's a noble gas.
01:42:53
>> No, I can't give you that. >> No. No. >> You're going to be
01:42:57
>> really >> It's a noble gas. >> If you could tell me how many electrons
01:43:01
are in its outer shell, I'll give you that point. >> 47. >> No. >> A no.
01:43:05
>> Guys, do you want to hear some of the ones that you missed? Sure. >> You missed the 1x Neo robot that's
01:43:13
coming out soon. You missed the LG Neo Chef, a microwave, the Samsung Neo, which is a QLED TV.
01:43:20
>> I should have just written Samsung Neo. >> LG Neo, Samsung Neo, >> the DJI Neo, a pocket-size drone. The
01:43:28
Realme GT Neo, a budget phone or no, smartphone. The Motorola Edge 5G Neo, that's a budget phone. The old Kiosera
01:43:37
Neo, a flip phone. The Nubia Neo, a budget smartphone. The Xeria Neo from 2011. Remember,
01:43:44
>> and the Vivo IU Neo 10R, >> the Vivo Neo. >> Wow, >> I like it.
01:43:52
>> All right. Damn. So, not neon though, you're sure. >> David, if you can tell me how many
01:43:57
electrons are in its outer shell, give me that point because Ellis said it's a
01:44:02
noble gas. It is a noble gas, >> which means >> it has less than 10.
01:44:06
>> Yeah, it does. But I'm not giving you that point anyway. >> If you can tell me what neon smells
01:44:10
like, I'll give you the point. >> Ooh, sulfur. >> No, it's odorless.
01:44:14
>> Damn. >> That was good. You had two chances. All right. Marquez gets 16 points. Well, he
01:44:21
doesn't get He has 16 points. Andrew with 18 and David now in the lead with 20. That was a free-for-all.
01:44:27
>> Oh, baby. >> All right. Next question. The first video ever uploaded to the Nothing
01:44:33
YouTube channel was uploaded on what date? Closest without going over. >> Okay.
01:44:40
Use your maths. Think. Think. >> I guess this would be >> oldest without going newer.
01:44:54
>> Wait, sorry. >> Right. >> Month. Just year. >> I'll take anything.
01:44:58
>> Yeah. Oldest without going. All of it. Yeah. Like pick a date. >> All right.
01:45:04
All right. Flip them and read. What do we got? Oh, >> wow. >> I'm so excit No, I definitely wrote down
01:45:17
incorrectly. >> Uh, I wrote June 8th, 2021 at 5:55 a.m. London time. >> Okay. Answer.
01:45:24
>> You did not write London. What? >> I wrote March 2023. Okay. >> I wrote March 1st, 2021.
01:45:31
>> Damn. No one got the point. >> We all went too. >> You're all too new.
01:45:35
>> Really? >> It's funny. I accidentally wrote 2020 and then put three over it. Would that
01:45:40
have been okay? >> Dang. >> It was February 18th, 2021. >> Oh,
01:45:45
>> yeah. >> That was close. >> Damn, that was close. >> I know you guys got close, but you went
01:45:49
over close without >> like one day off. I I I started here February 1st, 2021, and I remember it
01:45:56
being soon after I started, but I didn't know it was like within two weeks. >> Yeah. Well, good game. GG.
01:46:00
>> Damn. >> All right. >> Almost so Ellis and I can start this
01:46:04
edit. >> Dang. Hey, long week. It's Teember/March. Uh, which means there's probably going
01:46:08
to be a bunch of stuff next week, too. So, get subscribed if you haven't already. Hit that like button down
01:46:12
below. Leave us a comment and comment iceberg lettuce if you made it this far in the episode. Nice.
01:46:17
>> Thanks for watching. Catch you later. Also, if you're at South by Southwest,
01:46:21
see you there next Friday. >> Yeah. >> Merry Tarchmus. >> Peace.
01:46:25
>> Wer is produced by Adamina and Ellis River. Partner with Vox Media Podcast
01:46:28
Network. Natural music was created by Vain Sil. >> Bingo. >> Bingo. >> Should we
01:46:42
like >> It's not a graph. It's a chart. >> Okay. >> A chart is a moving. I would like to see
01:46:47
a graph. There's a graph near the