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s so at mwa the r OGG so at CES not mwc D 2A 2A so is dimensity DOA at mwc not CES like RG diens that was a real that that's an actual correct sentence wait
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yeah 2A s so at mwc not at CES like Rog [Music] yes what is up people of the internet welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts I'm
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Marquez I'm Andrew and I'm David this week we got a bunch of fun stuff feary rolls on I I'm trying no more I'm
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trying you're not going to make fetch happen it's it's I I think it's still going pretty well uh we've got some phone leaks we've got some uh CEO
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reviews their own product to talk about I thought I thought it was fun uh and we also have some uh Tik Tok music battles
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and a new chat GPT feature but first we have an update on waveform trivia remember how somebody made a waveform trivia website that's so good they've updated it massively you you've gone
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through it already yeah hoe aderly we talked about him last time he made this it's wvfrm trivia.com
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and previously it just had like stat updates of all of us and a way you could play trivia now he added more intense
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player cards and like every season and all of the guests which I think were there before but there's also a new
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trivia section that you can play by yourself that's based on the text sounds that Ellis has done which is awesome
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there's also the typing test that you can do um it'll link you to the app but it also shows the leaderboard and how
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you can compare to everybody else and it is awesome this is better developed than
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like most social media websites yeah for sure the fact that you can play your it's it's pretty great I highly it's in
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the show notes I highly recommend checking it out doing the typing test yourself playing some trivia yourself
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and uh checking out that leaderboard oh it also has a it's not just each of our player cards but it's all of us together
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we get together 37.6% of the questions correct is that good um probably not that's pretty bad that's like an F it's like over a hard F Well yeah questions are difficult it's fair you know when
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you when you ask questions like what do the three stars mean and like can you explain that and then the host says no
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Then you get enough that's going to you know exactly why I couldn't explain that
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and you know I can't say it in front of the audience so you're just hanging me out to dry right now sorry we will we
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will have I'm sure we'll up our percentages over time like we to be fair I do this bad in regular trivia as well
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do worse probably probably do worse think of it this way like if this was your slugging percentage in baseball I was going to say shout percentage and is
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fantastic 3% yeah yeah there are ways that we can make this look good how often I can drive a car without crashing
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uh no that's not great not one of them pretty good not one of them 37 that's definitely not where you want to be you
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want to be uh much closer to 100 for that one but some would say at 100 some some would definitely say say wait you said 37% yeah yeah Oh I thought you said 67 no no guys step it up no no no that's
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not even a good slug percent easier do you know what Steph Curry's alltime threo percentage is is 37% 38 or nine 42% Jesus dang I would know if his
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player card was on W from trib.com Mar Andrew magelli davidl Steph Curry at it we're all chasing Steph out here I think that's what's happening um
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okay well yeah but anyway check those out but uh I also wanted to have a a quick correction from last week I think it was last week uh we were talking
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about how YouTube thumbnail AB testing works I said I mentioned at some point that it was giving you the option to
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test three different thumbnails and then test testing them among your audience and spitting out the watch time percentages for each one that's actually
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not exactly what's happening the reason you may have noticed that the percentages always add up to 100% is
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because it's actually giving you watch share which means it's totaling all of the watch time generated from one evenly distributed thumbnail with all of the watch time generated from the other
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thumbnail so it's not purely watch time but it's combined with how many views it
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gets and how how well it gets clicked through yeah like it's a combinate I think if the if it doesn't get clicked
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on it counts as zero watch time right so it gets it does actually get impacted by click-through rate it's just extremely
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confusing think of it this way I'll try to make it simple you have a YouTube video you want to AB test you have two
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thumbnails YouTube goes okay you've got a and thumbnail B I'm going to send this out to 10 people thumbnail a gets sent
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to five people thumbnail b gets sent to five people if all the people click thumbnail a and all the people click thumbnail B you have 100% click the rate of each then it will purely be which one
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has better watch time that wins okay but if you have a video where nobody only one person clicks thumbnail a and five people click thumbnail B and the person
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who clicked thumbnail a watched the whole video but the people who clicked thumbnail B watched 80% of the video
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that will have way better watch share even though it had a worse average watch time 80% versus 100 it has a way better
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click-through rate five out of five versus one out of five which will weigh heavily towards total watch share so
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watch share accounts for both click-through rate and watch time percentage does that simplify it at all
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I think two things are true with what we've learned yeah one it does actually take into account clickthrough rate so that is more of a number we should be looking at than we thought two it is in
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entirely way too confusing and how on Earth anyone's supposed to figure this out to figure it out well yeah nothing behind the scenes at YouTube is ever supposed to be figured out because then
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it gets gamed but I think if you're a Creator who's AB testing this is just complicated enough to accommodate for
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the different variables that you were trying to optimize for I guess I shouldn't have said figured out I should
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have said understood sure because like you're getting numbers you should semi understand what they mean at least and we are a fairly large Channel and you've been doing YouTube for a long time and
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we just had no idea what it was yeah I guess now as long as uh as long as you see the thumbnail test pick a winner you
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can probably safely assume that that's a good thumbnail to pick I trust in the YouTube sometimes you got to go with
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your gut sometimes I just pick that's one of them that's not the winner but all of ours are like 49 to 41 51% so it
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makes almost no difference to be fair though we don't really do like drastically different is what we talked
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about yeah we want to do more fundamentally different thumbnails that we AB test we've notoriously tested like
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well what if the background has a red background versus blue or what if the phone I'm holding is titanium versus
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silver it's like that stuff doesn't really make a meaningful difference but as far as the purpose of the video
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sometimes you have a big difference in what you think a thumbnail should be but that's a lot more work for Tim it is but
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we get a lot more data out of that Tim doesn't listen to this podcast so we can say whatever we want about I mean that's
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a lot of smarts but also a lot of data I was hoping that would come up again so yeah there's that well I'm still
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confused so I guess we should move on um next story yeah uh but Universal Music Group pulls Taylor Swift and others off of Tik Tok and I added the
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story because it is sort of a social media story sort of a music industry story overall just a very interesting
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story where we're kind of talking about like who has the power dynamics and the relationship right I also want to
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confirm here real quick that they're saying Taylor Swift but I'm assuming they're talking about umg's Taylor Swift
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whereas if I'm correct a Taylor's version is not under umg and therefore almost the entire just they're clearly throwing Taylor Swift tier because she's one of the biggest artists out
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there but they're ripping out her old stuff that yeah is actually under umg where I'm assuming her new stuff is still on Tik Tok cuz it's not I don't know I don't think they can pull off
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stuff that's not there should look that up so this is very interesting basically Tik Tok wanted umg uh wanted to pay umg
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very little for the licensing rights of all these very popular artists umg is like we're a giant Music Company our
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giant artists are popular and don't need Tik Tok to get more popular fair so we kind of think we have more bargaining power which I current why I I kind of agree with I kind of half agree yeah
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there are big artists who still still have songs blow up on Tik Tok yeah like meaningfully right I agree but I think
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that this probably hurts the smaller artists that are just trying really really really hoping that their song is going to blow up on Tik Tok more MH um
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but at the same time I have mixed feelings about this because a lot of artists now are sort of making music
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geared specifically towards being that Tick Tock like sound bite sound th% and then everything around that little sound bite is kind of just Thoughtless and they don't put a lot of effort into it I
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don't know if I would fully agree with that talk people in the music industry that say that people are doing that yeah
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they're like this is the song on the album that is specifically for Tik Tok it's not even that it's like this is the
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part of the song This is the the bridge of this song is the Tik Tok thing that's what we're going to be shipping to our influencer partners like I guess lizo
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did do that didn't she also to clarify I think umg does own Taylor's versions do
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they yeah I don't I don't how is it her version no no it's it's more compc that I've been trying to look it up to I'm
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pretty Taylor owns the Masters but they're distributed byg could take it off yeah yeah yeah
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definitely yeah so the awkward part about this is that now that they don't have a new deal um the New Deal of 2024
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anyway uh all of the Tik toks that use the music just have no sound now yeah so if you go back through like someone's library and they they're dancing to a Taylor Swift video now they're just dancing to nothing yeah I mean that's
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happened a lot of times where like music gets pulled off because of copyright issues and different and it's always
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very awkward and very funny to like scroll back but also Tik Tok basically lives within the week and then dies so
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you don't scroll back as what a week old Tik Tok anyway yeah yeah Tik Tok is giving uh users of those videos the
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option to like select another song but I feel like that it makes absolutely no sense but
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it's a good point like it lives within a week people aren't going to go back and watch it so um yeah it's pretty crazy I
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just I I think this is a good story of like who has the most power here and they would both argue that they are more important than the other but uh ultimately I kind of think that Tik Tok
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is eventually going to go back to umg and be like we really need your arti yeah and just be like we'll pay the money I don't know I think I think Tik tok's got the upper hand here really I would be I'm that they're the marketer
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essentially not actually the marketer but the marketing platform I feel like and I think eventually if they realize
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they're losing a lot of views Tik Tok brought Fleetwood Mac to the number one billboard 30 years after the song was released that ITW Mac but right and are
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there a lot of such cases of that happening or is that kind of a songs being the number one billboard because
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of Tik Tok no no like really old songs oh no no no it's just an example how absurd the poll from Tik Tok is no but
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look at it look at it from a label's point of view right like in the wood Mac example like realistically and I don't
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know if that song is is part of theg catalog I was just an example sorry how much money did the label actually make
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from that song heading number one again maybe $100,000 that's the exact maybe I'm just trying to use it as an example of how something can Skyrocket to the top and like if that's a new artist that
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artist could literally start an entire career based off of I I would actually argue that they can't though because
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apps like Tik Tok have lowered the dollar value of music to such a point that you can't actually generate
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meaningful Revenue off of the music Alone off of the music alone but becoming like a a known artist that then
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can t like I'm there are definitely artists that have started touring because they've been found on Tik Tok
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yeah but umg is not getting a cut of that they're they're on the record so umg has no reason to go back to ti do
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they potentially then not have artists that want to sign with them anymore because they're losing that
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I well here's the other for a very long time they they are massive it's also worth noting like umg's excuse of like
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we're doing this to protect our artist because there is there is an argument to be made that Tik Tok does not pay for
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sure fair prices for music also umg has at every opportunity made sure their artists get paid less on streaming yeah every single turn absolutely they literally there get there's a lawsuit
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being formed right now about them lowering the per stream price for their artists in exchange for Spotify stock that their artists will have no share in
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like actual crazy stuff I want to also confirm I'm not in anyone's corner here it is just who I think will I think it would be awesome to talk to an artist probably because they have really strong
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opinions on whether or not like the effect that Tik Tok and all that it's done has had on being an artist whether
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you're a small one or a big one because I think there's a lot of artists who are like yeah I was doing what I was doing and then I had a couple songs blow up on
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Tik Tok and now people are going to concerts to see those songs and that might be a real thing or I could just be imagining that and that's not an actual thing that happens and they are very fleeting bursts of attention that
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disappear in a week I also wonder how often it happens like how many to how many small artists that happens to I'm
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so I'm fairly confident there's a lot of examples of songs hitting number one and
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maybe this is just cuz I've seen it person so many times but a song that I look at on spotify's like Billboard top
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100 chart that I'm like oh that's the one that's been on Spotify on Tik Tok for the past week yeah that's probably
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why it's number one do you know the YouTuber Rick beo I don't think so he's a music YouTuber um he's like he's he's
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cool but he's like um he does these Spotify top 10 reaction videos where every 3 months Spotify has like this new top 10 list of music and it's very often
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music that I have never heard of before and he has also never heard of before and there's probably a strong chance
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that it just got popular on Tik Tok for like two weeks and then spiked it on Spotify and that's why it's up there and you'll see it's by an artist that has like no other yeah like everything else is at this level and then one song is
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like way above the rest and you're like Ah that's the one that blew up on Tik Tok I see also sorry just want to throw
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this out there you triggered us companies like umg and this applies more to major labels than independent and
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quote unquote independent or mediumsized labels umg owns a lot of music and and uh what's the word administrates a lot of music for artists who are dead for artists who who cannot tour and I'm not
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saying like oh we need to defend this like large corporation business model but it is
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like you can't make the argument that the promo is worth it on Tik Tok if the artist is literally deceased you know
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like just as speaking of just to say that I think umg or Tik Tok needs Universal Music Group way more than the
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other way around you I also well I also don't get why we're making the argument like a one
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song pops off cuz there have been one hit wonders for the past 50 years who have made entire careers off of
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literally Eiffel 65 has one song whoa whoa whoa whoa that album is amazing also just saying like that has been a thing in the music industry for long it is but up until about 20 15ish years ago
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you if you went platinum or even if you went gold you were going to recoup on your contract you were going to come
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away with a a fat check and you could actually live the rest of your life off that money nowaday like if you get 10
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million Spotify plays 10 million a huge number that is about 50 Grand yeah you have congratulations You' have now almost made minimum wage like yeah no I agree I think you're all still just
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harping on just streaming though I feel like you could have more than just that yeah you have to very quickly capitalize
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like artists now have Instagram pages that may have tons of followers and stuff like that if that Sparks from Tik
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Tok they have tours they have meet and greets like and it'll be up to the artist to like properly hopefully
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capitalize on Tik Tok success to bring them over to something that they can actually make money on whether it's your
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Instagram or your merch or your tours or whatever it's just how easy SL hard is that actually I probably agree with you
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that umg like hearing all this umg probably needs it more and ultimately artists are getting the hardest here out of everyone which sounds like what Tik
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Tok and umg are pretty known for already yeah this sounds kind of like the whole argument for like unpaid internships
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like but think of the exposure Instagram and YouTube are the real winners in all of this because now if you want to like
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make a real with a specific song you got to put it on Instagram or YouTube shorts mhm yeah I also well I I guess it'll
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happen eventually but Tik Tok people will just no they must have some sort of copyright thing right cuz you can just upload your own sound and taken down I'm
00:18:07
assuming it would get taken down eventually but I have no idea if you just use the built-in tool it won't be
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there anymore total mess when you try and find like original sounds every time you click one it's a whole another library because not everyone's just
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using the actual Library sound they're like uploading their own and then yeah such like this is still a problem it's
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not as much of a problem as it was right after Instagram reals launched but almost every Instagram real had the Tik
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Tok watermark in the corner when it first came out same with YouTube shorts and now those platforms are driving more
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organic uh short development but I think it's still a thing that people are just
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using because the Tik Tok editor is so good that people just edit their video inside of Tik Tok I think most people
00:18:48
use the Tik Tok built-in tools to do that if you have an MP3 of a Taylor Swift song and you're like editing it on
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your phone to be in the video good for you but I I think you're in the minority there's probably a lot of people just hitting the button in the app so that is
00:19:00
fascinating yeah it's a whole dynamic uh we'll see how it plays out I think Taylor Swift will probably be okay um
00:19:07
but she's going to go bankrupt from this did you guys hear she won the Super Bowl she did she there was an I literally was
00:19:13
in a bing pool where there was an too low it was way over very low and I I heard a lot of people say they did a good job of not cutting to her too much
00:19:35
yeah cuz in a lot of other games a lot of other of the games they didn't do it enough they did cut to celebrities
00:19:41
watching but it was like very clear that there was a theme happening cut to tr Kel and then they would cut to Taylor
00:19:47
Swift reacting to what Travis Kelsey was doing we're only cutting to other people to make it seem like we're not just trying to cut to camera C camera D
00:19:53
camera a camera B camera a camera C camera f CA okay yeah we got her we got her yeah they were they it was a thing yeah it was a thing that's funny all right we should take a quick break and
00:20:07
when we come back we have uh some phone leaks to talk about and we also not even leaks just a new phone and then uh some
00:20:13
CEO reviewing our own product fun what before we do that [Music] trivia see how long I can make that
00:20:26
pause I love that he responded oh yeah oh if you didn't know the announcer who does the NBA top 10 stuff
00:20:33
on Twitter saw the clip I just want to shout you guys out for getting him the clip and Shout him out for seeing the
00:20:38
clip and tweeting the clip also his name is the goatmentator get it right yeah sorry goatmentator Mr goatmentator
00:20:44
that's sir goatmentator to you Dr Professor goatmentator Esquire the third all right so I'm
00:20:51
working on a video for the studio Channel right now that's about speakers and so I've got a lot of speaker stuff on the brain so this is going to be a a
00:20:58
speaker question on the brain on the brain oh brain audio okay BR foreshadow I think that's just called spoiling no we're smart we're smart it's called foreshadowing when it's
00:21:13
smart anyway Andrew Marquez you guys both have uh speakers that are part of the Yamaha HS line on your desk and
00:21:21
those are what we call two-way speakers they have two speaker drivers that one at the top that makes all the high
00:21:27
frequencies that's called the Tweeter like a bird tweet tweet what's the bigger one in the middle of the speaker
00:21:33
called the midtones the midon the Twitter we'll think about it answers at the end like usual we'll be right
00:21:50
back this episode is brought to you by visible Wireless okay so visible Wireless is one of our partners and
00:21:55
they're pretty great they asked me to talk about why visible might not be interesting for you pretty refreshing
00:22:02
right so visible based plan with unlimited 5G data on Verizon's Network for 25 bucks a month works great for
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lots of people so what's not to love well they're all digital so you do everything from managing your plan to
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getting customer service right in their app so if you love to handle everything without ever needing to talk to a human in a store visible is great but if you
00:22:20
need a shop for a new phone in person visible probably isn't for you someone like Verizon might be a better choice if
00:22:25
you want your wireless bundled with a bunch of extra stuff don't switch to visible but heads up you're going to have to pay for that extra stuff visible
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is focused on the wireless part of Wireless so if you want more then unlimited 5G data from your Wireless
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plan and to pay top dollar for it then by all means don't switch to visible don't even go to visible.com to learn
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more you get it rate with service on the visible plan for additional terms and network management practices see
00:22:48
visible.com all right welcome back uh we got a new a new phone to talk a little bit about not that it's out but it's at least starting to be teased now nothing phone
00:22:59
2A so we already had nothing phone one nothing phone 2 they make headphones now they're starting to Branch out their
00:23:05
portfolio a little bit and it looks like the next thing they're going to do is a 2A which I think we all assume is a
00:23:10
budget phone a cheaper phone that's what that's what pixel did with a that's what they probably should do with a cheaper
00:23:16
phone so nothing phone 2A March 5th is when it's getting unveiled and they have this like teaser video it's around
00:23:24
mwc we'll probably get pricing around there and there's a rumors flying around about what exactly they would do to make
00:23:31
a cheaper nothing phone um one of the big rumors of course is knocking down that so so there's a rumor saying it could be a mediatech dimensity
00:23:41
7200 which I haven't personally benchmarked I don't think I have experienced with a phone with that chipset but if it's a mediate Tech
00:23:47
dimensity chip let's say it's pretty safe to assume it's not on the level of a Qualcomm Snapdragon ship like a gen H
00:23:54
Gen 2 or H gen 3 I think it's definitely not going to have all the same AI features definitely won't exactly at a
00:24:00
at a minimum yeah it probably also have Hardware cut Downs like from the camera it looks like based on like some
00:24:07
wireframe stuff and people doing uh renders based on leaks it probably won't have wireless charging I'm guessing
00:24:13
it'll still look like a nothing phone um but yeah it's going to have to find ways
00:24:18
to cut down on certain things and still deliver a nothing phone esque thing this
00:24:24
is like how do you make a rivian R2 that doesn't feel like you're taking away too character from the rivian R1 make it see
00:24:30
through make it see through give it a Bluetooth speaker so the render from what I've seen seems like it's based on
00:24:35
a mix of this tweet from someone named Dylan Russel that it seems to be like a video almost of like a feature set that
00:24:43
would be inside Android showing how something works um I'm sure you've seen leaks like that before and it briefly
00:24:49
shows the back of the phone and some of the glyphs in this like washed out White
00:24:55
Version and then along with the Carl video that came out and in the thumbnail there's like this whiteboard s sketch
00:25:01
people took those together made this really sick looking render that it seems to match everything that's shown in
00:25:08
those two things we know about it and I think it looks sick I think it looks really good I think it looks better than the nothing phone yeah who um yeah it's
00:25:16
like if we want to try really if we want to try to explain it this one is all black it has two cameras kind of in the
00:25:23
middle top of the phone and then surrounded by a circle that doesn't NE look like a camera bump just a circle
00:25:30
and then there's three glyphs around it um kind of like a longer curved light a smaller curved
00:25:38
light and one straight light kind of typical nothing like looks nice but doesn't necessarily follow any form
00:25:45
factor um and then it has like kind of this black ribbon cable looking thing coming down the bottom but like you
00:25:51
mentioned before and I didn't put this together not a wireless charging Circle so probably not having wireless charging
00:25:57
that makes perfect sense yeah exactly yeah I think it looks great so the interesting thing about this is that
00:26:03
camera array it's two cameras so it's unlikely to have a telephoto camera that's usually what they do with budget
00:26:08
phones but the interesting thing about this array is that when the phone is in the vertical orientation the cameras are
00:26:15
horizontally aligned which is not something that you see on phones that often and the reason is because when you
00:26:22
are filming horizontally which is the correct aspect ratio to film in if you are above the age of
00:26:28
25 um you want it I was going to joke and say disagree and then I just would have made myself gold you want to be able to switch between the lenses
00:26:38
without there being um Parallax but because this phone has horizontally aligned cameras when it is in vertical orientation this is clearly made for like people that are okay with firming
00:26:51
with filming vertically very frequently and I would bet you that nothing is probably going to reference that in
00:26:57
their you know they're prob like most people film vertically these days so we decided to put the cameras vertically so
00:27:03
you're saying so it's probably a standard camera and an ultrawide yes and they're right next to each other but they can't be on top of each other so
00:27:09
they're left right instead of top bottom they could be but when you're filming video vertically if you switch and you
00:27:17
have slight Parallax on the right versus like up and down I think that people translates better it translates better
00:27:23
it's the reason that usually cameras uh are above and each other cuz you turn your phone to film horizontally gotcha yeah there wouldn't be more par I feel like the left and right par I guess it
00:27:35
makes sense CU those dual reflex cameras are always no those are top and bottom yeah but slrs okay uh tlrs twin reflex
00:27:45
no you have a viewing lens and a shooting lens they're not like both being used one is only being used to
00:27:51
view okay so that's just my okay that's just my theory well here my theory here's my theory okay Carl said this
00:27:58
looks cool also and I agree with you car just as easy to justify yeah and they said we'll fix it in hard in software we'll just try to make him as little differ say we'll fix it in software yeah
00:28:09
yeah yeah that's interesting I think it looks decent yeah the irony of this is that if we remember correctly only about
00:28:16
one and a half years ago the nothing phone one was supposed to be a budget phone and then the two used last year's
00:28:23
Flagship chip and was relatively expensive speedr running the OnePlus acceleration that we all saw already
00:28:28
like OnePlus took six seven years to do this can we do it in two years yes um yeah so now they're making an aine again which is funny but I really personally do love the design if this ends up being
00:28:39
the uh final design and in that animation that you were talking about it shows the timer um with the glyphs and
00:28:46
all of that type of stuff has functionality the normal one has like 12 glyphs right this has three um yeah I
00:28:52
think they're just like flashes and then together they make a glyph I could be wrong about but that's what I mean
00:28:58
lights I guess okay parts that light up sorry oh yeah yeah I meant like uh there's three different lights that do
00:29:04
different things this if anyone knew more than three congrats that's awesome that sounds like a lot of things to remember on the back of your phone I love LED notifications I miss LED
00:29:16
indicators on phones I miss that so much so this is still cool it depends how often I mean we could have this this be
00:29:23
a conversation but like a big part of the discussion around the glyph interface face was like well we use
00:29:29
always on displays now which tell us the notification and if you have your phone upside down and you see that you have a
00:29:34
notification you're going to want to flip it anyway and then there's the awkward part of like well it's a flat screen so if you put it face down it's
00:29:41
going to get scratches on the front and so it's like okay two rebuttal one everyone has a case on their phone and I
00:29:46
get told well every most I keep getting told everyone has a case on their phone no you're right I don't know we're the
00:29:53
only people that would art a lot of us have Cas cases on our phones and so when you put a lot of people going bu this pH going
00:30:00
put it they'll put it down and it'll be fine but the other thing is I want this to be a color a color thing so bad
00:30:06
spoiler we're working on a video where we're using a lot of phones that are older that have the little light on them
00:30:12
and that little light is so useful when it has colors you could program what you wanted each color to show you and I
00:30:19
would I would memorize I'd have like five six colors yellow for tweet deck blue for this green for that and then
00:30:25
they'd all just tell me everything without me having remember the Nexus 6 had an RGB LED that they disabled before
00:30:31
they launched the phone for no reason they just decided they didn't want to use it but it was still in the hardware
00:30:36
so every ROM in the world was like we're using this now yeah I remember that yeah
00:30:41
that was good times and even even when you had like bigger or like the the track ball or something would light up and you have colors that would be like
00:30:48
that's all I need I just want to be able look at my phone and be like case on this phone unless it's a clear case you're missing out on the whole point of
00:30:54
the phone well I'm assuming there will be cases that are like oh this a clear backed phone let's give like a clear plastic back or whatever and then you
00:31:00
get to see the lights lighting up in a way that tells you whatever's happening on your phone yeah I don't like always
00:31:05
on display so like just one my Note 8 had it yellow was a Snapchat blue was an email green was a text that's all I
00:31:12
needed it was the best thing ever I wish these could turn colors though yes that would be great although they don't on
00:31:19
the normal phone right so the nothing normal phone uh so it' be very funny if the budget version had colors that would be incredible yeah that' be wild yeah I suspect it won't be I think it will be
00:31:30
all white LEDs and the same thing as last time where you can pick one app where if that light lights up then you know that that one app has a
00:31:36
notification mhm fine yeah I got a text I still really like how this looks how much do you think it's going to cost okay if I go nothing phone 2 how much is
00:31:47
nothing phone 2 actually right now 5.49 549 wow okay so you go nothing phone 2 take out wireless charging take out some water resistance downgrade to a
00:31:59
dimensity chip take out I mean there's still dual cameras on the nothing phone too so still dual cameras and you could
00:32:07
knock some screen down and some battery down I think you could get down reasonably to a competitive 350 that would be very competitive that
00:32:18
would be a great price remember when pixel a launched and it was 350 pixel 4 a pixel the first a a pixel was 350 and
00:32:25
then 3 3A was yeah AEL 350 would be nice it was the 4 a was also 350 which was just like yeah yeah yeah yeah that's the perfect budget phone price but also the
00:32:36
pixel phone that year or those two years was more expensive wasn't it it's gotten more expensive I feel like the nothing
00:32:42
phone 2 like the price difference wouldn't be that drastic so like if they could even sneak it down to like 300
00:32:47
they might bump up the nothing pH three price though oh that's fair remember wait wait let's think about this
00:32:53
remember the earbuds they're just pulling it on us again they're doing the same thing literally did it they
00:32:58
literally already did that DN they almost got me they upped the price of the airbuds by $100 or something that
00:33:04
was a pod just it was just you and I they like that that'd be so funny if that's what they did and then they did
00:33:10
it yeah I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that the pick the nothing phone three will be more expensive but you're saying they'll just bump up the
00:33:16
price on the two as it exists I'm just I'm not saying they won't is what I'm saying because we
00:33:22
have that's the best way toi predent there is a a rumor of what the price might be okay it is the at the moment from what I've some of the things I've read it says approximately €400 which is
00:33:36
around 430 USD so it's not quite what you were saying at that price and this is going to be a hot take because people
00:33:43
always disagree with me on this you have to be higher fresh rate oh you have to I don't know that's not where I thought
00:33:48
you were going with that you need to be high CU like the budget phones now are all 90 HZ plus if you're going to have a
00:33:54
$400 phone the iPhone you better not not be 60 HZ and I will personally make sure
00:34:00
I talk about that what if make sure is that a threat I'm just saying you got to be I'm I'm what if they have some other
00:34:07
crazy feature that will what if they have a software skin that's based on dots yeah but that's cheap you can do
00:34:15
that I mean you already built it so you can put it on all your phones I feel like that's what if they made it clear
00:34:20
we're talking now we're talking no I think they'll they'll spend the extra money for the nothing phone 2 to be the differentiator in Aesthetics at this
00:34:31
price it will probably not be an amazing performer for the price with this dimensity chip maybe I'll maybe I'm
00:34:36
wrong I could be shocked and this could be an incredible thing but I don't think it's going to have the best camera at this price I don't think it's going to
00:34:42
be the battery champ at this price I think it's going to be the one that has sick design at this Price look at this
00:34:47
software look at this clear back look at these this glyph on the back that's what this phone is going to have for this
00:34:53
price as its differentiator yeah pretty sure I I agree and if if you want it to be the cheap iPhone you can get the
00:34:58
cheap iPhone if you want it to be the cheap great pixel camera you can get the great cheap pixel camera this is going to be the design one I mean I remember
00:35:05
that mediatech was making a big deal about how its tensity series was a lot more competitive than its previous chips
00:35:11
have been because it I'm believe that this is their Flagship line and they make a lot of chips like they make the
00:35:18
chips that go in pelons they make the chips that go in the Amazon Alexa I've used a
00:35:23
pelaton it's not fast it's not s well oh yes I mean that's not supposed to be a phone so in Pon I do I mean I do see their theity 7200 Ultra is going to
00:35:35
be a 4 nmet chip and they of course want to be competitive with Qualcomm and I'm sure it's going to give them better
00:35:40
price flexibility than going with a Qualcomm chip I'm sure that's very helpful I just I'm like Googling trying
00:35:45
to find what phones the demens city 7200 is in and I'm not seeing any yet but I just have a sneaky feeling it's not going to be mind-blowingly good and that's going to be fine at this price
00:35:57
that's fine it just has to be fine yeah I think it'd be fine yeah I mean again it's like you can't really tell the
00:36:03
difference between chips now I think a big reason that Qualcomm had to stuff the 8 gen 3 with AI features is that
00:36:09
they didn't really know at this point it's like yeah 8 gen 8 gen 1 versus 8 Gen 2 was the same chip a 5% Headroom
00:36:17
difference in performance is not a meaningful difference to most people even if it was 25% most people would not
00:36:22
notice difference but the AI stuff is Meaningful most people are on Instagram like you don't have to have a fast CPU
00:36:29
to use Instagram yeah yeah uh one other interesting thing about this and I think it was in the actual video that nothing
00:36:35
posted but it seems like the 2A is going to be in the US developer program which is what they did with the nothing phone
00:36:42
one versus the nothing phone 2 having an actual US release so it's kind of weird
00:36:48
that they're going back on that but I guess trying it out not in the US at first or what
00:36:55
wasn't the developer program you got it way cheaper but like it basically was like yeah
00:37:01
sure ISU test out for us but that was like a that was a while after they had launched the phone one yeah it was way
00:37:07
after so oh yeah I guess it's a good point does that mean this happens later for the US I don't know probably
00:37:13
immediately but yeah I think their long-term play is probably to get into the pay as you go market because
00:37:19
currently OnePlus like is slaying the pay as youo Market OnePlus and uh Motorola are like extremely popular phones in that market they make a lot of money through that so yeah then OnePlus
00:37:32
Nord phones have weirdly High market share in the United States specifically in the Pugo Market yeah so the so the
00:37:40
nothing phone Nord that's it Carl is as fast as possible here's one last little update uh there is a phone that has this chip in it already the vi T2 Pro that that phone is not in the US but
00:37:54
it's a roughly $300 phone okay so and now you can't say we didn't talk about it there's your context how recently did
00:38:01
it come out uh pretty recently it's a Vivo phone so they're just turning out phones oh
00:38:08
true yeah yeah yeah yeah that's true Vivo and real me we get packages from them every other day literally you think that's an exaggeration not
00:38:21
literally every couple days real me and red me we just get packages every other day of another version of a phone I've
00:38:28
never or just the same one the or the same one but it'll have like Coke eye CS that's true okay but that went hard though that was sick no the sounds on that one yeah Coke sounds yeah this one
00:38:40
came out in September it had uh 128 gigs of storage or 256 Android 13 120 HZ refresh rate 8 gigs of RAM wow it runs fun touch OS nice so there you go that's an
00:38:53
unfortunate name that's an unfortunate name yeah all right well well this is a pretty short section but we obviously have a lot to talk about with uh the
00:38:59
quests and Vision Pro stuff so before we do that let's do some [Music] trivia I get kick out of the lights every time trivia so we have two
00:39:13
questions you guys could pick which one you want do you want a VR question or do you want a mediate Tech question VR I'm
00:39:19
gonna I'm G to go with VR I could do mediatech though Andre you're the decide not medatech
00:39:25
is that what we say medch yeah okay so medch question number two before meta Quest there was the Oculus Rift the first Oculus Rift prototype was made by
00:39:37
Palmer Lucky in his parents Garage in Long Beach California how old was he when he did this okay that's the
00:39:44
question it's interesting I remember trying it at CES did you try to CES also were you no no yeah C yes that's a long time ago I have no idea how old this guy is though so I'm gonna have to guess
00:39:57
anyway answers later we'll be right back did you hear what Zuck did did he he reviewed his own own
00:40:14
prodcts which I think is hilarious yeah he reviewed someone else's products compared to his own product shocker he
00:40:22
found his own product to be dramatically better than the competitor's product uh but he chimed in on Vision Pro he had some words to say about Vision Pro which is really interesting because he runs
00:40:33
meta and it's almost like they're in their own world of like this is the metaverse and this is the products we build but even he has something to say
00:40:39
about Vision Pro and I think that's because everyone has something to say about Vision Pro and it's kind of like a little
00:40:45
bit it's like threatening it's like on the radar here let me just say something about Vision Vision Pro so he uh let's
00:40:52
just play what he I actually agree with a lot of what he says let's just play some of of what he says about Quest
00:40:58
three all right guys so I finally tried Apple's Vision Pro know I have to say that before this I expected that Quest would be the better value for most people since it's really good and it's
00:41:10
like seven times less expensive uh but after using it I don't just think that Quest is the better value I think that
00:41:17
Quest is the better product period shock and you know the different companies made different design decisions for the headsets they have different strengths
00:41:24
but overall Quest is better for the vast majority of things that people use mixed
00:41:29
reality for mixed now my friend Kenny is actually capturing this video on quests
00:41:34
high resolution mixed reality pass through right now it's just a guy guy just a guy for audio listeners it is
00:41:41
just a guy sitting there hey hey Kenny Kenny sorry Kenny if Kenny's a real person cuz he's not moving in the video at all you think it looks more or less memeable than people doing video with
00:41:53
Vision Pro which was just like the eyes shining through like uh I think less memeable cuz the eyes are a really big
00:41:58
part of the meme Ken he's keeping his head perfectly still to be a tripod for this video and the Cutaway to Kenny is
00:42:05
just the headset on it's great very funny also he it's like surprised it's being shot with the quest Pro it's like
00:42:11
we can tell the video quality is not good yeah yeah so I figured I think he goes
00:42:17
on next to start listing things do you just want to pause after each thing he lists and we'll say whether we agree or
00:42:23
disagree I like that format yeah I think in general I agree with most of them but let's break it down one by one yeah sure
00:42:29
okay before we keep going I just want to add the the the the the Vision Pro eyes it's not exactly the least cringe thing
00:42:35
in the whole world but with the like weird triple triclops slit it you look it's like the guy has like a face hugger on his he looks like he's being controlled by the headset and not the
00:42:46
other way around yeah all ring this video on quest's high resolution mixed reality pass through right now we're just here in my living room and you can see his his browser windows and you know
00:42:58
whatever else he's got running up here um so yeah Quest 3 does highquality pass through with big screens uh just like
00:43:05
Vision Pro but we also designed it to be great for a lot of other things uh moving around playing games um hanging
00:43:12
out with friends and socializing working out um and more pause Quest I would generally agree that because Quest is lighter and more
00:43:23
comfortable and doesn't have a cable running to your back pocket it's easier to walk around especially being more
00:43:29
active in it it's kind of like wearing light plastic headphones versus wearing airpods Max I saw somebody running in the city recently wearing airpods Max I
00:43:35
was like damn that's it's going to get a concussion I also yeah I wouldn't want to get my ear sweat on those cushions
00:43:43
yeah so uh same thing with Vision Pro that that light seal cushion you can't really buy another one so I wouldn't
00:43:49
want to wear a big heavy Vision Pro being active nearly as much as I'd want to wear a quest being active so I'd give him credit there a lot of people also
00:43:57
like working out in quests like Supernatural is a very popular Exercise app and Quest that people use all the
00:44:03
time I mean just beat saer like is incredibly like I'm sweaty every time I play that there's two apps similar to
00:44:11
beat saber right now in my vision Pro they're not exactly beats saer but one of them is basically like beats saber
00:44:16
with your hands it's not I think what D was talking about is very similar also like a lot of the exercising things are like things coming at you and you do
00:44:22
yeah you got to like Dodge things and jump and like Duck it's it's basically a high inity interval training app but
00:44:29
it's like gamified yeah yeah I think he talks a little bit more too about something you say shortly okay oh you I
00:44:35
think it's just a lot more comfortable um you know we designed it to weigh 120 g less which makes a really big
00:44:41
difference on your face um there's no wires that get in the way when you move around B deal our field of view is is
00:44:48
wider and I found our screen to be brighter also okay okay nicely specific I love
00:44:56
that this is a straight to camera one take by Zuck and he Nails all of these like specific points yes the screen in
00:45:02
the quest is brighter and has a wider field of view but is it better overall is a different question well he brings that up later though yeah um I would say yes you're right Zuck it is specifically
00:45:14
brighter and has a wider field of view I would say I've heard the thing about wider field of view putting both of them
00:45:21
on I can't really tell that much of a difference both of them I can see borders around my eyes and you don't get that like peripheral vision and you figure that out very quickly when
00:45:32
something comes into the corner of your your eyes or like was it you wearing it or you wearing it and we were sitting next to each other and oh yeah that's that's another thing when you try and like drink a water bottle it gets really
00:45:44
big and distorts it distorts real hard so yeah sure like cool it's a little better I don't think it's a noticeable difference that's that big of a deal yeah I think unless you do them back to
00:45:56
back you probably won't specifically think wow the quest has way wider field of view yeah uh but in general that's
00:46:01
something that I mean this is the quest three it's third generation it's something the headsets have been working on for a while is getting progressively
00:46:07
wider and wider and more immersive field of view so to see a $3,500 headset have a narrower field of view was like a big
00:46:12
point of contention for Quest enthusiasts so that is a fact also weight is a big thing because he mentioned he made it 150 Slater so
00:46:20
that's a big we all agree that the quest 3 is far more comfortable to right like because meta's willing to make things
00:46:26
out of plastic and apple is not and has a battery yeah yeah I I Feel Like The Vision Pro is more comfy personally really just because the the quest Pro
00:46:37
and three get so the is a different situation just three just three hot but it gets so hot it like like literally I pull the three off after like a 2hour session and my face is dripping have you
00:46:49
used the Vision Pro for two hours though I have not used The Vision Pro for two hours but I I find it really hard to believe it gets that makes your eyes
00:46:56
kind of hot interestingly so I mean I've worn The Vision Pro I mean on the Pod I didn't have anything intensive running but for a long time you can start to
00:47:03
feel the warm air passing out the top over your forehead and the fans turn on and you never hear the fans and you
00:47:09
never really feel like hot air hitting your eyes or anything like that but you do kind of notice like oh the top of this thing is kind of warm that's as far
00:47:15
as I've gotten as I don't I haven't actually worn Quest 3 for two straight hours doing anything crazy but that's
00:47:21
interesting that it gets a lot hotter I've only made it like 3 hours and at that point it's like the combination of
00:47:26
the eye strain from looking at it and the heat on my face I'm just like I'm done with this thing interesting
00:47:31
personally but you're right I haven't tried Vision Pro for that for an extended work as soon as everyone's done
00:47:36
passing it around I'm going to try the full the full work day on it get pink eye and no one thing you mentioned
00:47:43
before and he mentioned the wire hanging down I think is actually like totally agree not having that wire is so nice
00:47:50
like it makes everything more comfortable I do also find it funny Ellis brought off Quest Pro I think it's hilarious is that he doesn't compare it
00:47:56
to Quest Pro once in this entire video just completely disregards which feels so much more like the comparison um and then oh the third thing we're talking about comfortableness I just want to
00:48:08
throw this out I saw this awesome thing the other day where you can 3D print a connector so you can use the Apple solo
00:48:15
band on the quest 3 and people say it's so much more comfortable because the quest 3 is so much lighter that you
00:48:21
actually do get the really nice like boa version solo loop on the quest just with
00:48:29
a 3D printing thing it seems really sick that is probably the alltime best Quest accessory yeah wow that's kind of sick
00:48:36
okay good to know cool um I also noticed that you know Apple's headset has this motion blur As you move around which um
00:48:43
Quest is just a lot crisper now Apple screen does have a higher the motion blur is annoying I
00:48:49
agree I'm trying to remember I guess I don't think I used it as much I I will have to say the quest has this thing and
00:48:56
I know there's a name for it but I don't know where it is where if you're it feels like on the bottom half of your screen if you have something in your
00:49:02
foreground and background and you move your head side to side it feels like the top and the bottom start swaying and
00:49:07
like almost disconnecting it's something I've noticed with some that must be what it is yeah it's weird and even though
00:49:14
like the quest pro has uh motion blur or sorry The Vision Pro has motion Pro I feel more comfortable walking in the Vision Pro than I do in the Quest Pro there's something about the quest Pro
00:49:27
that feels just a little disorienting and I think the quest Pro wins in or sorry this is going to be a very confusing and Quest three not quest Quest three yes oh my God Quest three
00:49:38
Vision Pro I like walking in the Vision Pro that's pass through is definitely better
00:49:45
in The Vision Pro and he mentions the motion blur while moving around probably more laterally and you do notice this especially cuz I think if in Vision Pro you stare at one thing and then move
00:49:56
your head you'll notice it gets blurry while you're moving your head and then you stop moving and it sharpens up and I don't think that that's a normal
00:50:02
behavior most of the time in Vision Pro you're focusing on the thing in front of you while you move around and I don't think I've noticed any difficult motion
00:50:09
blur in that he also used the word crisper interesting choice of words yeah because he's doing Gene editing ah good
00:50:17
one good one that was good no it's it's he thinks it's crisper while moving your head but the pixel density of the vision
00:50:26
is dramatically higher so crisper while moving versus crisper in general is a is a bit fuzzy bit
00:50:33
fuzzy nice nice resolution and and that's that's really nice but I was surprised by how many tradeoffs they had to make to the quality of the device and the comfort and ergonomics um and other
00:50:47
aspects of the display and artifacts in order to get to that now for input Quest supports uh Precision controllers that
00:50:53
are great for games um both headss sets support hand tracking but you know I found ours to be a little more accurate
00:51:01
pause hold on pause okay here's oh sorry no you go okay okay the controllers on Quest are great yes and they are better for gaming than anything you can do on the Vision Pro and Vision Pro should
00:51:14
have a controller option it would be nice if you could have a I mean you can use it like a game controller but it
00:51:20
would be nice if you could use like a pointer controller whatever for games that being said the hand selection of
00:51:27
things in quest is not even close to as good for regular moving around the UI as
00:51:33
The Vision Pro it's just not it's definitely not as good um that being said with Quest you're usually just
00:51:39
holding the controllers and so that Precision is really really great and if you just get used to controllers you
00:51:44
never have to worry about the wonkiness of like trying to grab a window and move stuff but I think the intuitiveness of
00:51:49
Apple's eye tracking combined with how good and how wide of an area it can pick up just the pinching is fantastic so I
00:51:56
would say it's just apples and oranges like controllers on one really good there are no controllers on the other
00:52:02
but the eye control and hand control is really good on that and you're going to get way better gaming out of controllers
00:52:07
and way better UI and intuitiveness out of the other I think that's what like sort of split it down to yeah I agree
00:52:13
someone who has like a quest workflow where I like I leave it charging on my desk and never use the controllers like
00:52:18
the controllers are in a drawer just pull it on the first 35 to seconds to a minute is just me looking at my hands
00:52:24
going see them see them but again that's Quest Pro right no it's three it's it's both
00:52:31
quests I didn't really feel like that the hand tracking got better once it finds your hands on three but even still
00:52:37
you're like no I'm aiming here no thing is not good no you didn't see the click up one more xing out of Windows is like I hit I highlight the X and then I do this and it like it
00:52:48
twitches and it misses the X and I try to hit it like over and over and it's crazy and maybe it Boots the hand
00:52:54
tracking like program a little bit after turning on because it assumes you're going to use
00:52:59
the controllers but every time I'm like see them yet and it's like n bro you're armless so I kind of think he's being strategic in what he's saying there and
00:53:09
his hand tracking is like he he is about to mention eye tracking and I feel like
00:53:15
comparing the eye tracking with the pinch isn't hand tracking for the Vision Pro it's just like you're just using the
00:53:22
pinch at that point and the ey tracking is far better than any cuz the quest like pinch and like point is
00:53:30
horrible it's so bad and I don't think that's what he's I don't know it's very confusing how he's saying this I think
00:53:36
he's just trying to say something about like hand tracking and being like how good it sees your hands and shows them
00:53:42
in a space because that pinching thing is terrible and eye tracking is different because it's tracking your eyes and all it's using your hands for
00:53:49
is the pinching yeah that's true he could he could argue that it's more advanced it's a strategic word that he's
00:53:56
using but the the quest has to know more gestures right because you have the menu open pinch and the select pinch and the
00:54:06
wrist turn and yeah so it's not like they're not make trying to make a serious hand tracking thing I would use the controllers 100% of the time with the quest with the quest totally yeah
00:54:19
yeah shall we continue let's keep going Apple's eye tracking is really nice um we actually had those sensors back in
00:54:25
quest Pro we took them out for Quest 3 and we're going to bring them back in the future that interesting that was
00:54:31
like a um what do they call it when you compliment someone but underhanded underhanded I thought are a compliment
00:54:38
sandwich right or like yeah it's like it's good um we actually had that years ago um yeah and we're going to bring it
00:54:44
back once we think it is actually a good feature wait Those sensors are in the quest Pro though yeah they have they
00:54:51
have eye trackers in the quest Pro wow I didn't even know that that's part of the reason it was so expensive but you again have controllers that you use most of
00:54:57
the time and and end up not using like the fundamental thing about Vision Pro is it doesn't it doesn't come with
00:55:03
controllers so you have to rely on the eye tracking being good all the time for everything you do in everything yeah
00:55:10
which is different from Quest yeah but they're bringing it back they're bringing it back in the future I wonder
00:55:17
why just like how they brought uh color pass through mixed reality to the quest 3 right before the Vision Pro came out
00:55:23
fascinating yeah I feel like the the eyee tracking and pinching is like the far more intuitive non-roller way of
00:55:29
doing it m um it is extremely frustrating when it like doesn't work because you just feel like you're using
00:55:36
T trying to use like telekinesis by sitting there and you're like I can't get this to go up a little higher you
00:55:42
start lifting your head and there have been times where I've just stood up to walk to the window that I have like in front of me and like just press it with
00:55:49
my finger good thing that works super frustrating though to do I think also and not to drag gone too long this kind
00:55:55
of goes a little bit more to like we keep doing the Phil philosophical thing where like what do we want the future to
00:56:01
be and I think in like a 20 year however long future you put on the glasses or whatever and just start using things without a controller you don't want to have to think about a controller and for
00:56:14
meta if you get people so used to that Precision controller I think you now have to eventually find a hurdle where
00:56:20
you get rid of controllers and there has to be this leaping off point where like I know you guys have been using these
00:56:26
controllers and they've been really really good for all these games and all the experiences but every app and everything that we do is going to have
00:56:32
to leap off of controllers to graduate to this super lightweight invisible mixed reality thing we want you don't
00:56:37
think they're always going to have optional controllers for games cuz I feel like it's a it's better possible
00:56:43
yeah maybe you'll always have optional controllers but it's it's kind of like what did you train your users to do for the past decade mhm yeah I could see
00:56:51
them moving fully to hand tracking and and eye tracking but I feel like they're always going to lean into that
00:56:57
especially because they are a lot more about the VR experiences like people buy quest to play games people don't buy Vision Pros to play games right because you're not buying a Vision Pro for Fruit
00:57:08
Ninja you know so they they have very different use cases even though they use fairly similar technology yeah agreed um
00:57:16
it's a nice interface it's not perfect for everything though for typing or complex tasks correct um you're going to
00:57:21
want uh things like hands or a keyboard or controllers or eventually a neural interface I like how he just casually
00:57:28
dropped you're probably going to want like a I don't know a keyboard or like a neural interface anyway yeah what he's
00:57:34
pretty much like oh this new like kind of Revolution maybe not revolutionary but the thing that Quest or Vision Pro
00:57:40
is really good at is the eye tracking he like this new thing it's like pretty good but you know the old school things are good like neural engine wait neural
00:57:48
interface neuralace it the headset plugs into your brain no no not exactly not directly but some sort of it's funny because I agree with him that for simple tasks the the eye tracking and
00:58:00
everything it's great but the second you get to a complex task yeah let's let's consider typing maybe a more complex
00:58:06
task then it's a little more like okay do I look at the letters or do I like type the thing in midair it's a little
00:58:11
cumbersome and clumsy and for that I would just want to think of the word and it shows up on the screen like things
00:58:17
like that you get a little more futur looking and I'm sure they're working on stuff like that but yeah just casually
00:58:24
drop that in there is kind of like wait so he is talking about plugging into your brain I don't know if that's
00:58:30
exactly what that means or if there're cuz in in the Vision Pro you have Siri and you just say the word so you looked
00:58:36
at the you looked at the text field and just say a word and it shows up okay and that's you know that's not a neural
00:58:42
interface but it feels like one and what's two steps further down that line for for meta is it just have like
00:58:48
wearing a certain like head Electro detector thing on your on your forehead I don't know I don't want men knowing all my thoughts I can't even type with my eyes imagine trying to focus so hard
00:59:01
to only think of the word you're trying to say all the other words anything else not think of an this is this is meta
00:59:08
like I don't want my inner thoughts scraped for Advertiser data oh they will they will you were thinking about hot dogs a lot a lot like all day so we showed you
00:59:21
a few ads when you bought them yeah yeah interesting I I agree with what he's saying I just don't know how to get to that future yeah it's weird I do agree
00:59:33
that using the environments and having it make your keyboard go away is really stupid yeah I mentioned that yeah in the
00:59:39
video yeah especially if you're like using your Mac display and you're mirroring it and then but then you tune
00:59:46
yourself into an environment and you just have to touch type like you can't see is that the saying Mac monitor is
00:59:52
floating in the air and that's one thing I really like about the meta remote desktop application is you can place a
00:59:59
cutout on your desk for all of your controllers so like I have all my macro buttons my keyboard my trackpad and so I
01:00:06
can like physically look I a big macro button guys but it's really awesome that's why I have a quest workflow you
01:00:12
know what I mean because it actually as much as it sucks and is hot and hurts your eyes and and and reads your
01:00:17
thoughts or whatever it does actually work like at the end of the day it it does work yeah I kind of I just also
01:00:24
want to point out that at the end of every time Ellis does this he takes off the headset and he's like I got to go for a
01:00:30
walk I've been on Mars for 24 minutes it's so real yeah I I did mention in the video but like if Apple can do this and this and recognize your hands and pass
01:00:41
through then surely I should be able to do this and sorry audio listeners I'm like holding up my hands and that's how you detect your hands and they work in pass through surely I can hold up a keyboard or just recognizes a keyboard
01:00:53
yeah if it can recognize MacBook Pro display and know how to automatically lift that out of the screen it should be
01:00:59
able to do like semantic segmentation and know where your keyboard the quest can do with supported keyboards uh like the Logitech MX series keyboards MX
01:01:10
Mechanicals if you tell the quest that you're using one of those it will scan it and then fully do a 3D render oh
01:01:17
really yeah wow yeah all right it doesn't work that that I mean maybe it works now when I was trying to do it I couldn't get it to work oh man I even think like but it's in the menu yeah I
01:01:28
think with I think it should be even more advanced with like you you looked at my hands and you know what hands generally look like so then you able to
01:01:34
figure out my hands I think you should know what keyboards generally look like because the layout's the same mostly
01:01:40
every time and then you have function keys at the top wait I'm and you can you can't use the keyboard at all it's not
01:01:45
that you can't see it you use it you just can't see it you can't see it oh just learn how of touch type well you can but if you were doing this and then
01:01:52
you were missing your keyboard you have to but there's something about having my peripheral vision see my hands typing on something yeah and that being linked to
01:02:04
what I'm feeling by pressing on buttons that is comforting I'm not saying that I
01:02:10
don't touch I don't touch type I know how to type I just like something about my peripheral vision telling my brain
01:02:17
yes you are typing while feeling the thing is beneficial I'm mostly joking I'm mostly joking but yes I agree to
01:02:23
whatever you're about to ask side note try and get a high monkey type on the Vision Pro I think I got like 56 how are you eyeball poking yeah
01:02:35
poking poking single fingers 30 seconds on monkey type I got to like 52 or 56 were you like inches from it like just dude I sat I sat in it for an hour trying to do it so that just sounds like
01:02:47
beat saber at a certain point C way more frustrating and way less fun that is tough immersive Content Library is a lot deeper you know we've been working with Studios uh building virtual and mixed
01:03:00
reality games and other content for a long time now and if you want to watch YouTube or play Xbox on a big screen
01:03:06
anywhere you go uh that's only available on Quest for now okay so wait I'm very interested specific wording very specific wording did you watch his video yeah so it shows he shows these
01:03:19
immersive videos that he's watching or whatever and they just do not feel immersive compared to everything you
01:03:25
watch in The Vision Pro I think like the term immersive is I mean he's saying there's a he's basically saying there's
01:03:31
a lot of VR yeah he says the immersive Content Library is deeper because Quest 3 and Quest 2 and they've been around for a while and they've partnered with tons of studios and all this stuff so
01:03:43
yes they have a much much larger collection of things to do in VR and immersive experiences of course but is it as good as the
01:03:55
extremely small number of the ones that we've seen on Vision Pro no I think you guys are using immersive as hyper realistic and I don't I don't know if I
01:04:05
fully agree as that being the definition forers I think that just refers to a a a type of media which is this is fully in
01:04:14
the XYZ space around you whether it's full VR or mixed reality it's just they have they have all these experiences and
01:04:19
if you watch the video there's one that's mixed reality like something coming out of the wall and there's also obviously VR experiences and Quest pro
01:04:26
has tons of this stuff so yes the library which is what he's saying is way bigger so the amount of stuff you can do
01:04:33
is way bigger this feels like Android and iOS all over again like the The Vision Pro is like you can't do nearly
01:04:39
as much but you could argue that the Fidelity and the tracking and how well things stay spatially locked are and the media especially the videos that the like four videos that exist that were
01:04:51
shot for Vision Pro look better by a mile than anything I've seen through a quest headset so I'm like H do you want
01:04:58
more or better oh I think the big thing is like the the immersive video on the quest kind of just feels like 2D video
01:05:05
that is around you whereas The Vision Pro videos feel more three like feel more volumetric he said immersive experiences right not immersive videos yeah yeah but he shows a video on screen
01:05:20
when he says that okay yeah I guess my argument was immersive experience is is very obviously true just be a VR game yeah and I would argue that it's more immersive and more VR game and then
01:05:32
there's uh watching a fight from the corner of the Octagon so it's like this content this doesn't exist for Vision Pro 2D video stream though is what all that looks like it looks bad but it
01:05:43
exists yeah and I wish you could do this in Vision Pro but you can't they marketed you Vision Pro as of right now he's
01:05:52
specifically using that language of our Content Library is deeper correct I agree with the exact words that Zuck
01:05:58
used in this video I'll put it that way I would argue the experiences in quest three are more
01:06:04
immersive more immersive it depends on what experiences you I mean like in the sense of I'm in a position where like
01:06:10
I've thought I could lean on things that weren't there and like it just feels like you're in something where you're
01:06:16
not actually there like even like Graphics aren't the only thing I've played super hot which is like the most
01:06:22
like Bor not boring but like simple polygons and I've fallen over because I've tried to touch things in the actual thing this like I argue that's extremely immersive I think I know where you're
01:06:34
going which is and I I didn't really talk about it as much as I want to in the last video but the only really fully
01:06:40
immersive things in Vision Pro are the environments which are like the five or whatever that you can do and the play
01:06:47
area of that world is very small yeah so you can't really move around cuz you didn't like draw your play area on the ground or whatever it sort of puts it around you and you can take like two steps in each Direction before it breaks
01:07:00
and you're out of it and in super hot if you have a huge play area you can like walk across the room and get and Crouch down behind a thing and it will look like you walked across the room and
01:07:11
crouched down behind a box and none of that exists on Vision Pro so in that way the quest experience is more immersive
01:07:18
because you have more play area but if I just stand in place and look at a character there's no question The Vision Pro looks more realistic just in the like four envir like standing on the
01:07:30
moon or Mount Hood for example I'm just looking out and hearing everything and seeing everything and how well my head
01:07:35
tracks and how how detailed the textures are that part Advantage Vision Pro so there are different things that make certain experiences more or less immersive and the play area is a big one I think there are other things we just
01:07:48
haven't experienced in quest Pro that are like cuz I remember on our Vive there was like being on top of a
01:07:53
mountain and it's just like super high quality you're standing on top of a mountain and can move to different areas
01:07:58
very similar to Vision Pro environments yes so I think we just haven't experienced enough of it cuz I'm sure
01:08:05
Quest has plenty of 3D environments you can sit in like don't look as good yeah but I I
01:08:13
kind of agree with you Andrew like just on the fact that like super hot is immersive not because it looks good but because it's responsive and fast and
01:08:20
like it it just it makes sense to your brain you know what I mean uh it's immersive I I get what you're saying
01:08:26
yeah I think a big part of that too is just that the vision proos um resolution is so much for yeah it's not
01:08:34
brighter which I wouldn't even really notice because it feels bright enough to me you know when I look around it seems
01:08:41
like there were a lot of people who just assumed that Vision Pro would be higher quality because it's apple and it cost
01:08:47
$3,000 more but you know honestly I'm pretty surprised that Quest is so much better for the the vast majority of things that people use these headsets for with that price differential now
01:08:59
look I know that you know some Fanboys get upset whenever anyone dares to question if Apple's going to
01:09:05
be but the reality is is that every generation of computing has an open and a closed model and yeah in Mobile Apple's closed model one but it's not always that way if you go back to the PC
01:09:18
era uh Microsoft's open model was the winner and in this next Generation meta is going to be the open model and I really want to make sure the open model wins out again the future is not yet
01:09:30
written so you iend it you know he's looking out for us man he's he's he wakes up he brushes the Macadamia dust off of his hoodie he he walks out in his
01:09:41
yard he's just a normal guy man one thing in there that I was when I was listening to this that I was thinking of
01:09:47
he's like a lot of the Fanboys will be upset about this and I was like what about the Facebook fan booy oh oh is he
01:09:55
like the only company that doesn't have a bunch of Fanboys behind definitely like meta Quest Fanboys for sure and I
01:10:01
don't want to say Fanboys just people that defend the company to the gr they're just not as notorious as the other Fanboys I'm talking about they're
01:10:07
just not as numerous because it's a much more Niche product sure yeah I like the quest a lot like it's a really good
01:10:13
product yeah for sure I don't know I wonder if the fans there are more like I want to use this to directly compare to
01:10:19
Apple because I dislike apple or they're like hardcore fans here's a way of looking at it if you've been using a quest for like a year and the Vision Pro comes out and you look at that app store
01:10:31
and what it does there is no reason to switch to the Vision Pro and if you're Zuck that's what just happened and
01:10:36
you're like I'm shocked that there's no reason for anyone who's had a a quest to
01:10:41
even consider that $3,000 thing Apple came out with no great games way less Content Library like no Partnerships
01:10:48
like we have like we've been doing this we got controllers we got all this stuff and like why would I get a Vision Pro
01:10:53
the question three does all this stuff so that's from that perspective makes perfect sense cuz the Vision Pro went
01:10:58
quasi mainstream whereas the quest has never there people who've been playing yeah beat saber games whatever they
01:11:04
they're like none of this stuff is in the vision this also not at all dissimilar to like when a Nexus phone would have something for like four years
01:11:10
and then Apple would put it in iOS and all of the Android people would say we've had this for five years you guys
01:11:16
getting ha to keyboards in 2023 a lot of the times Apple would make it more polished or they would do it like in a
01:11:22
way that um people who are not willing to put up with the evolution of Technology would be okay with yeah um
01:11:30
but they did have it for a long time before yeah yeah so it's kind of the same same deal and I also would I would
01:11:36
disagree with his statement that Apple won the open versus closed interface War cuz like yes they're debatable generally more popular in the United States but globally Android phones are like vastly
01:11:48
more popular I would also argue that in the long run Apple sort of did win the PC War like like if you're a hospital
01:11:55
you're going to fill your business with a lot of people have PCS he definitely oversimplified a
01:12:03
little yeah I don't know yeah it's competitive but I think in general he's trying to paint a very broad picture of how he wants this to go yeah can you replay the start of that one more time
01:12:14
there's something very specific he said prise that Quest is so much better for the vast majority of things that people
01:12:20
use these headsets for with that price differential that now look I know I think it's really funny that he says
01:12:26
like it's so much better for what people use these headsets for cuz we've been making the headsets for years and The
01:12:32
Vision Pro has been out for like a month also because they bought all the studios that make the content yeah what people
01:12:37
use these headsets for is what quest users have already been doing and so yes of course because this is what we offered them well in in in Mark's defense it's like one of the reasons I
01:12:48
have not been jumping at the bit to use Vision Pro in the same way that I use Quest is literally because of a small little feature cuz I can't have multiple
01:12:55
Remote Desktop Windows M like that that that's a that's a a product killer for my specific use case so he is right he's
01:13:02
like for the things people use it for there's no reason to switch it's it's a bummer that you basically if you want to
01:13:07
have multiple windows open you have to use Safari in The Vision Pro you have to that's what's that that is like a very
01:13:15
very opaque version of Apple's like wal Garden play is we're not going to let you just use whatever browser you want if you want have the best experience you got to use Safari and we're going to
01:13:26
associate multiple safari windows with the best experience yeah no but you can have multiple apps open at yes can yeah
01:13:33
just not multiple windows of the same app you can have multiple safari windows open as well of not like can I have
01:13:38
multiple instances of the notes app yes okay thank you but you cannot have the only thing you can't have more than one of is virtual displays for your Mac unfortunately fix it please and at least
01:13:50
currently uh no other browser companies make uh Vision also I don't I don't think you can actually have more than
01:13:55
one Notes app I think Safari is the one that you can have more than one instance of got it we don't need to get into can you not it be it's it's crazy that they
01:14:02
didn't just put you know like an an apple silicon M series chip inside the Vision Pro so that it could do these
01:14:08
things oh wait oh oh wait interesting yeah these are intentional decisions anyway smaller thermal headro anyway yeah that's that's basically it our reaction to a CEO reviewing his own
01:14:20
product is is always fun yeah yeah Carl's been doing this for a while now too I'm sure he's been telling everyone
01:14:26
yeah he reviewed the iPhone in a to totally unbiased way toally yeah and Mark didn't even go through the trouble
01:14:31
of dressing up as Marquez I'm I'm gonna need Tim Cook to record a video response
01:14:39
to he's too busy chilling at the Super Bowl with ludicrous showing the The Vision Pro do that see that see Tim Cook
01:14:47
he's a celebrity we can't relate to him Mark it's just him and his cows that's a
01:14:53
real guy Tim Cook when faced with difficult questions doesn't try to defend the product he just says buy your
01:14:59
mom an iPhone oh you make the experience so bad for me when I want to text my mom the
01:15:05
pictures don't come out good by or not you sound like a bad son exactly he just but he flips it on you he flips it on you I think Apple's natural response would be Vision Pro just came
01:15:18
out give it a second we have the best developer community in the world four generations we just went from 600 to a
01:15:24
th000 apps in the app store for Vision Pro like we're generation one here I think that's what their natural
01:15:30
inclination would be and that's also a totally fair response so I think ultimately meta is so happy The Vision
01:15:37
Pro exists for so many reasons because they're going to sell so many Quest Pros for people who are interested in a
01:15:42
similar experience but don't want to pay $3,500 yeah they're excited that people are going to start investing in the
01:15:48
mixed reality space which tangentially means they're going to be investing in quest content they can buy the
01:15:54
studio yeah yeah I think I think for them it's like a win-win yeah so I think yeah they definitely want mix arvr any type of headset to be more popular and
01:16:05
that's what Apple does well they do make things popular like ear sticks that come out of your ears and I don't know you
01:16:12
guys remember the first generation of airpods yeah I I lived in San Francisco when that happened and all of a sudden
01:16:17
everyone was walking around with these like these like antennas coming out of their ears and I was like this looks so dope
01:16:23
oh my God and I was laughing at people for months and now it's just completely normal yeah so I do get asked a lot what
01:16:32
do I think is the future of media like we've been doing this whole 2D YouTube video thing for a while and the natural inclination is yeah the future would be an immersive video the future would be I
01:16:45
hold the video in I hold the phone in my hand and you can see it like it's in your hand and you can look around and
01:16:51
that feels like that's the the future we're barreling towards I just don't know how far along that line we are yet
01:16:57
I also don't know if it's actually going to work out that way mkb 3D well so also HD still so I used
01:17:05
to to run a VR website back in the day uh not run but I wrote like 90% of the articles for it uh called VR source and
01:17:14
I started going to Oculus connect at the first Oculus connect forward and at that
01:17:19
time they were in they were like partnering with all these Studios to make these like 3D short films so it was
01:17:27
the way a normal movie works is they direct your attention to drive the story but in that circumstance they kind of
01:17:34
need to have multiple story lines going on at the same time so you can pay attention to one thing watch it again
01:17:39
kind of look over here and pay attention to another thing notice more things and it's a very very cool idea not
01:17:45
dissimilar to your like 3D immersive content thing but it felt like it took way more work and it's way hard harder to be like precise about what kind of story you want to tell totally and only
01:17:58
a few short films were ever made for that the the Darren aronowski sphere movie had sort of the same issue where like the canvas was so broad you'd like look over here and then you'd be like
01:18:10
wait am I missing what's it no wait am I missing the movie you just have to watch it like six times and no one actually
01:18:15
wants to do that and that's financially just not possible this it's so hard to do too yeah well that's about all we
01:18:22
have to talk about for now but we of course should end the episode you know how we end the episode no I
01:18:27
don't with [Music] trivia next time I'm turning that way I feel like people are going to get so mad
01:18:41
at this so quick update on the score Marquez oh yeah in the lead with a single point just one point dang all the way up in front Andrew with one two 2
01:18:53
minus one zero David damn with zero as well 2- one would have been one though true first question Mark Zuckerberg famously names all of his cows after
01:19:05
famous kickboxers just kidding are you are you kidding I wish that were true Marquez Andrew you guys both use speakers in the Yamaha HS series terrific series of uh speakers
01:19:21
and those are what we call two speakers they have two individual speaker drivers on them the one on the top that makes
01:19:28
all the high sounds is called the Tweeter the one in the middle that makes the lower sounds is called the
01:19:37
[Music] what oh you wrote this already I I did I'm pretty I'm confident about this one going to write this but pretty sure
01:19:51
it's just wrong wait my pen is not writing ah you can use my alternate if you want
01:19:58
oh yeah give me wow Mine wasn't good enough all right you're out of time what do we have oh
01:20:11
wait I put that over there da David what did you put sub I'm sorry Mar what did you put woofer that is correct Andrew what did you put subwoofer I'm unfortunately not going to I never
01:20:28
thought I was getting that right anyways yes why did I just write sub uh because sub is short for subwoofer which is the
01:20:35
lower version of a woofer but the Yamaha HS speakers do not have a subwoofer that
01:20:40
makes sense you can get yeah you could also there's someone that's going to be like actually that's not a woer because
01:20:46
the crossover on the HS series is a like 1800 her it's too high but it's a woofer
01:20:51
it's a woer woer it's a it yeah it's not a tweeter I find it funny that the person that invented these things was
01:20:58
like Birds Go tweet and dogs go and therefore I will make the things called this I'm pretty sure fact check that
01:21:04
it's true no no no that that that is the idea that like like ever hear birds brsh
01:21:10
you ever hear a dog woof woof exactly so what's a subwoof woof woof yeah you know exactly what it is under wolf perfect okay next question how old was Palmer lucky when
01:21:24
he made the first prototype of the Oculus Rift I don't know but sounds like he got lucky closest wins sure yeah wait
01:21:33
really without going over Price is Right no no price way yes Price is Right you guys messed up the mediatech question
01:21:38
was multiple choice that one now you're going to make change I feel like without going over
01:21:44
that makes us not actually try and guess what is he do Delta let's just do Delta oh what that's crazy wow I'm going to
01:21:51
guess a different I'm going to get it wrong therefore I'm not changing my I change I'm sticking with my trying to
01:21:57
actually be closest [Music] yeah flip him and read what do you got David I wrote 19 wrong Andrew 28 wrong Marquez I wrote 24 months and six days
01:22:15
wrong I hope that's over that would be so funny is it 17 it's 18 18 wait but I went I was going to I was like if it was at CES you have to
01:22:27
be old enough to go to CES I guess I think DAV you get a point as funny as it is that he didn't get one that's really
01:22:33
funny can we discussed no oh no I tried I'm upset I was going to change it to 18 and I was like no I'm sticking to my guns it's going to be Delta it's not going to we will
01:22:48
reconsider our prices right rules from here on out maybe maybe starting now starting now do you want the mediatech question as well just to just to see if we can head it out give it to me all
01:23:03
right this is a short episode mul it actually is a shorter episode mediate Tech's marketing
01:23:10
department makes me laugh with almost everything they say they have a way of inventing these words that aren't stupid like a lot of tech marketings but they are very funny don't ask me what Dem
01:23:22
means please so no dimensity is not on here that is such a silly word watch it actually be a real is it real dimensity
01:23:29
dimension intensity I assum I just assumed it was I assumed it was it doesn't matter I assumed it was
01:23:34
Dimension and density because they're talk it's like a anyway anyway I don't think it's a real word all right but
01:23:40
which of the following mediate Tech branding marketing terms is also not real again I'm going to give you three real ones one fake one are you ready
01:23:52
guys okay a iMagic which I think is a port of either Imaging or imagine and then the word magic but it also ends in a q for some reason not even going to try to explain the one I m a g i q IM
01:24:07
magic the next one is mirror Vision m r a vision this combines the Spanish word for look mirror with the English word for vision Vision thank you also wait
01:24:21
MAA anyway M there's your cut this is going to be a peace me episode no it's because typically when people use that word in Spanish it means they're mad at you look at me yeah
01:24:33
they're saying like m m look look you're not getting it oh yeah man people used to be mad at me a lot
01:24:41
yeah see look see a combination of the words look no way and C look see in case you're curious It's like a liar protocol for autofocus instead of uh uh infrared
01:24:54
auto focus literally L it's look but then C is with a Y SC y lookie look lookie and then D is Mick Linker Mick Linker is it's a Linker and
01:25:10
if you don't know what a Linker is it's something that allows you to take object files in the system code and then generate executables outside of a
01:25:17
compiler the McDonald's Linker mck Linker mck Linker is spelled exactly like a McDonald's ler would be SM can you just say all four of them out loud again IM magic with a Q mirror Vision
01:25:30
one word c lookie l o k SE e y and D M Linker I don't know dude this is one of those ones where you need that one to be
01:25:46
wrong and it's right and I just all right David I wrote B you wrote b as it miror vision is fake yeah no miror vision is real we all said that you all said that said that a magic no it's
01:26:01
lookie Adam made that one really good I mean they're all I think sey felt like it kind of gave it away but Mick Linker a magic with a Q is just too like
01:26:15
I've SE I've seen that too many times already well anyway that was quite that was quite a journey we all just took together quite the M Linker we had there quite the M Linker from uh from YouTube
01:26:27
thumbnail AB testing you remember that remember we talked about that that was this episode that was like today all the
01:26:33
way through Taylor Swift and Tik Tok through the nothing phone 2A remember the Vivo T2 Pro remember that no
01:26:40
remember that there's five of them at the door versus Vision Pro is literally going to take a year off my life this is a this was a winding Journey if you guys appreciate the the The Odyssey that Adam
01:26:54
and Ellis are about to go through to give this to you guys by Friday I just want you to give this a thumbs up or at least give us a rating somewhere
01:26:59
wherever you listen or watch this uh nonetheless we'll be back at it next week so thanks for watching thanks for
01:27:05
listening and see you then peace bye waveform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Ren we're partner with VOX media
01:27:11
podcast Network and our intera music is created by V still [Music] what if airdrop worked perfectly as long as you held your breath