00:00:00
it's also there's like a little balance I have to strike of it can't be too easy to say because you might accidentally say it with other syllables Siri are
00:00:06
both yeah well The Accidental Triggers on Siri go hard so maybe that's
00:00:13
yeah does whenever I say sorry it always triggers yeah so yeah there's a that's a
00:00:19
balancing act but I agree yeah it's is a little confusing that it is developed in sort of a separate Silo from Google
00:00:25
assistant and then I suppose at some point eventually it'll be good enough that they feel like combining it all into one Mega new rebranded named thing
00:00:33
maybe who knows but I feel like they're just going to name it Siri eventually yeah that's the the loop we're going to
00:00:39
encounter it'll be called Google [Music]
00:00:45
Messenger yo what is up people of the internet welcome back to another episode of the way for podcast we're your hosts
00:00:51
I'm Marquez I'm Andrew and I'm David and uh this week first I want to give a little shout out to the previous episode
00:00:57
which was a bonus episode midweek we did did our end of the trivia season
00:01:03
Extravaganza episode if you didn't see it cuz it was in bonus timing go back and check it out I won't spoil who won
00:01:09
but now it was chaotic it was chaotic of course and now trivia scores are reset z
00:01:18
z carry the one we're tied baby we're all tied again
00:01:24
uh feeling good I think I think we're saying this is season 4 I think that's what we're going with okay new new trip
00:01:29
season 4 2024 it just lines up it feels like a sure Fair let's pull Samsung it's
00:01:34
season 24 now that's what it is um no today we've got a whole bunch of interesting stories
00:01:41
kind of all across the map like Bard being renamed rebranded Samsung claiming
00:01:47
there is no such thing as a picture and quoting me oh no and Jer rig everything doing a tear down of the Vision Pro
00:01:54
wrapped up with a couple new EVS that are surprisingly interesting but first I have a number I want you guys to react
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to okay okay it's an interesting number I just saw this as a headline and we'll link it below uh PPI count Vision Pro we
00:02:08
knew it was a high pixel per inch but just to give a little bit of context the screen on an iPhone 15 Pro Max 460
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pixels per inch that's really good I don't think most of us realize how good that is like you don't really see
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individual pixels unless you're really up close looking for them yeah 400 plus pixels per inch is amazing uh but once
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you put it up to your face through lenses it's got to be even higher resolution to be convincing so HTC Vive
00:02:34
Pro 950 pixels per inch to get that done okay you're trying to minimize the
00:02:39
screen door effect you're trying to have as high resolution as possible to make things look smooth the latest and
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greatest meta Quest 3 1,218 pixels per
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inch that's pretty good right 1 you can see where this is going um Vision Pro
00:02:58
318 3 ,000 whoa 386 pixels per inch that is about 10
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times more dense than the original uh Retina display of the iPhone yeah and
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again it's right up to your face it's viewed through lenses but that's still the highest resolution displays we've
00:03:17
ever seen I'm kind of a pixel nerd I love high resolution this made me very happy can we do pixels per inch per
00:03:24
dollar now we're talking so about actually then you got to give it to the quest right cuz uh Quest is only 500 bus
00:03:32
you can do the math better here now well Vision Pro is 3,000 for 3,000 so that's roughly 1 to one 3500 3500 3,386 pixels
00:03:39
per inch $3,500 give or take right one to one Quest three is 500 bucks and you're getting 1,200 pixels per inch so
00:03:45
that's that's a win for the per dollar category for Quest that's true why would you ever buy a VI Pro well because you
00:03:52
have more dollars to spend more pixels uh that's that's the fun thing I'd open the episode with anyway okay first story
00:03:59
I want to talk about YouTube adding uh testing a color filter then you you
00:04:05
actually saw this on your feed yeah it came up on my feed a color filtering feature I will say I never would have noticed it unless David mentioned it the
00:04:12
other day CU you saw the article about it do you want to explain what sure um YouTube loves to make random
00:04:18
experimental features some are very useful everen uh like summarizing your
00:04:24
your chat or summarizing your comment section some are questionable as this
00:04:30
one kind of is basically the feature is that on for some users this is just being tested on some users and Andrew
00:04:36
happened to be a lucky user picked out by YouTube you now have an option to sort
00:04:42
the your feed by the color of the thumbnail with three different colors you can either sort it by red green or
00:04:49
blue RGB um in practice this is strange uh
00:04:56
Vibes only you know purely purely Vibes uh yeah so if you click one of them it
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basically just shows you a bunch of thumbnails where the primary color is a certain color there's a Verge article on
00:05:08
it and um the test image that they showed the first video was the autofocus
00:05:14
model 3 the r model three yeah and then a bunch more videos that just had a lot of
00:05:19
red in the thumbnail which says nothing about the contents of the video that's what I was thinking like you're clicking
00:05:25
a thumbnail and then it's over you're watching the video it could be a red video like if I'm okay it's a red car review show there's a lot of red in the
00:05:31
video but often that's not true on YouTube so I I don't I it's just in the
00:05:37
thumbnail so it doesn't even mean the video is yeah yeah like so when it came up on M it just said craving something
00:05:44
new and then had three circles red blue green and said create a feed of videos based off color and enjoying exploring
00:05:51
let's go create an aesthetic grid of red thumbnails it's like yeah a
00:05:56
temporary like search of just like color thumbnail color base yeah the
00:06:03
thing is I'm not mad because I would never have thought about something this stupid but because like I don't know
00:06:10
some some dumb stupid stuff is just kind of fun but it's also just very strange
00:06:16
like I you know I have I think they're just bored I I think YouTube if there's one thing that I've learned about
00:06:21
YouTube over the years like we've actually been privileged enough to get some behind the scenes and like talk to people who work for YouTube and that is
00:06:27
a very very large ship with very many ores and yes Neil is
00:06:33
a CEO but he can like point it in a direction and sort of like steer this big thing when they're so gigantic any
00:06:40
changes they make are are at scale no matter what they do so if you have a tiny little change that affects 1% of
00:06:49
the users on the site that affects a 100 million people like that's just what happens right and so they run these
00:06:54
experiments all the time where they're like we just want to kind of see what would happen if and they'll run an exp experiment that's like .01% of users and
00:07:01
if it works well maybe .2% and sometimes it makes it the whole site sometimes they just go yep no more like button
00:07:07
counter no more dislike button counter whatever and it's the whole site and that's a huge sweeping change everyone talks about but I feel like they run
00:07:14
these tiny little experiments all the time that nobody talks about that are just as pointless feeling or even dumber
00:07:20
than this one yeah I think they added a the the Chrome game to it at some point
00:07:25
like temporarily the dinosaur game and then it went away I don't know it's it's very interesting yeah I think like my
00:07:31
best guess at what this would attempt to be is we've talked about it we weirdly talked about it not that long ago but
00:07:37
old sites like stumble upon where it was just kind of like Hey we're trying to get people to some new things maybe your
00:07:44
feed's a little stagnant maybe the people you're subscribed to you're not enjoying as much here's like an
00:07:49
opportunity to find some people why they decided like here's just I want to find people with red thumbnails right now is
00:07:57
the route they went not totally sure something crazy unexpected to happen that we didn't know about like when you
00:08:02
just go Blue thumbnails it's all videos about I don't know it's like I don't I
00:08:08
have no idea what happened but maybe they found something there I'm going to create three new YouTube channels one called red one called green and one
00:08:14
called blue and just flood them with with colored videos of that of that color so that when people use this
00:08:19
feature all my channels get tons of views I definitely thought you were about to make a Pokemon reference oh
00:08:25
should we do ABC testing where it's just the same video except we do thumbnails
00:08:31
in red blue and green that's actually a totally in the weeds but very valid question because we have done AB testing
00:08:37
with different colors of the same device where Tim is a wizard so we'll have one
00:08:44
iPhone video thumbnail and he'll change the color of the phone I'm holding from Blue to Titanium so we have two of them
00:08:51
and what we found is it makes almost no difference unless there's like an iconic color which I thought titanium for the
00:08:57
iPhone was it would make a less than 1% differ this is very funny um we got access to the multi- thumbnail option
00:09:04
recently where you can submit two thumbnails actually up to three and basically they'll do AB testing and
00:09:10
figure out what people are more likely to click on which has a higher click-through rate not exactly not exactly it tells you which one ended up
00:09:17
delivering a higher overall watch percentage oh okay which is like what YouTube wants not necessarily what we
00:09:24
want yeah which is have I said this on the Pod I don't know actually it's the opposite of what you would think so when
00:09:30
you're testing a thumbnail I think a lot of people measure a good thumbnail as high clickthrough rate yeah people saw
00:09:37
the thumbnail and clicked it good thumbnail people saw the thumbnail and weren't interested bad thumbnail so
00:09:43
you'd measure success by a high click through percentage and what YouTube is actually
00:09:48
giving you when you AB test is not the percentage at all but it's the average
00:09:53
watch time of the viewer that clicked that thumbnail so let's say you have thumbnail red thumbnail blue
00:09:59
and people watched 50% of the video when they watched thumbnail red but they watched 80% of the video with thumbnail
00:10:05
blue you would think thumbnail blue is the winner because you want to reward that really good metric but what we
00:10:12
started to realize is if you equalize all other factors for your own audience
00:10:20
who would just click whatever you post no matter what the thumbnail is yeah if you have a horrible thumbnail only the
00:10:27
most dedicated viewers will watch it and give you a high watch percentage right so a thumbnail with a bad clickthrough
00:10:34
rate will have a great average watch time does that make sense so if you find
00:10:40
like you get 5% more watch time with one thumbnail maybe pick that one but if you find you get 40% more watch time it
00:10:47
probably means the other one is actually a horrible thumbnail yeah and watch time is very important and good because it can play more ads which generates more
00:10:53
revenue for both YouTube and the uploader yeah um but arguably sometimes you would just want more clicks well
00:10:59
yeah like I would almost argue YouTube wants it because they want more people staying to do more ads and satisfied and
00:11:06
satisfied but like that almost argues for non-clickbait things because they don't want people clicking things
00:11:12
realizing it has nothing to do with the thumbnail which is true but let's be real almost every YouTuber is looking
00:11:17
for the person to click because they've never seen it before the goal should be a nice balance you don't want to
00:11:23
overpromise underd deliver that's a bad thumbnail that has a high click the rate and a low watch time but you also don't
00:11:28
actually want to under promise overd deliver because people won't even click the thumbnail to get rewarded in the first place you want to find the balance
00:11:35
this metric is kind of sort of floating in the middle I do that on my YouTube channel which is why I get no views but
00:11:43
but yeah I and um intentionally make everything look like really ambiguous and complicated but um ironically when
00:11:51
we do the AB testing on the thumbnails the percentage is almost always 50.1 and
00:11:58
49.9 which to me is like that's probably not
00:12:04
statistically significant exactly actually if it's close enough YouTube will just tell you it's a tie whatever
00:12:09
you want yeah happens all the time yeah yeah so we we probably have to test bigger differences in thumbnails Maybe
00:12:16
by color well all red thumbnail maybe that's what YouTu red shirt red phone
00:12:23
red background Maybe YouTube was like we tried this multi- thumbnail thing and it isn't giving us any relevant data so
00:12:28
let's just throw everything in the wall and do colors I feel like YouTube releasing new features feels like
00:12:35
whenever we get a new mirrorless camera that also shoots videos it's like they're like hey we're giving you this
00:12:40
thing that you really want but we're also going to kind of screw something up with it where it doesn't even really give you everything you want like we
00:12:47
wanted AB testing but they're like we just got to sprinkle in a little bit of our mystery here as well so you can
00:12:52
constantly be in a Discord Channel trying to figure out how this actually works I mean I get it if YouTube roll out a feature where they're just we'll
00:12:59
tell you which one has the higher clickthrough rate people will just continue to optimize for the more and more and more clickbaity thumbnail I get
00:13:05
it that's a good point think that but that's where we find ourselves is sorting by red blue and green um anyway
00:13:13
anyway okay yes the first actual story though yeah from Google again Bard you
00:13:18
remember Bard the artist formerly known as Bard forget about that's not called Bard anymore so uh we can we can jump
00:13:26
right into what actually happened but essentially there's an update for Google Assistant with Bard on our Android
00:13:33
phones that is now just calling it Gemini mhm and Gemini was already the name of I think the large language model
00:13:40
that was underneath a lot of what it did yeah but now they're just calling the whole thing Gemini and the name Bard is
00:13:47
just gone yeah so they're getting rid of The Bard branding altogether okay um which is the most Google thing I've ever
00:13:54
Heards that one you know develop develop some brand identity for a year and then just be like JK and make it a whole new
00:14:01
one that's also not Google Assistant when they already had the Google Assistant branding since 2016 uh anyway
00:14:07
what's happening is they are basically rolling out a mobile app for Gemini
00:14:12
which is called Gemini Advanced that uses Gemini Ultra 1.0 sick so there's
00:14:19
going to be a dedicated app for it I don't think there was a dedicated app for Bard right right yeah so you just
00:14:25
had to use it in the mobile app yeah or yeah in the browser so yeah it's that's
00:14:33
basically the news it's it's kind of very Google to just like throw away this brand identity and name and everything
00:14:39
uh I will say though we have been testing uh Gemini Advanced with ultra
00:14:46
1.0 for the last like couple of months on a couple different phones on a couple different phones uh and it's been really
00:14:52
really good at least for me yeah uh I've been using it for research purposes and I do fact check everything it tells me
00:15:00
uh but it hasn't really been hallucinating almost at all which has been really useful and I've been looking at very Niche things that I need for
00:15:06
specific videos that I'm working on that is are really hard to like Google correctly Ellis could have used that for
00:15:13
the uh prices of 1975 VCRs yeah if it was able to link him to things yeah can
00:15:19
Source maybe a little yeah but I was able to say like explain this to me like I'm 12 and it will actually give me
00:15:24
analogies I love that pretty awesome yeah there's all kinds of hacks and things that work really well with it I
00:15:29
love it I think we're all kind of expecting this to be a thing across all the assistants the mobile assistants
00:15:36
Siri is long overdue for an update there's all these rumors we keep seeing about a large language model and a big
00:15:41
Siri update and all these helpful functions I think they would be awesome to see that also
00:15:46
um Bixby kind of bixby's I don't know why that wasn't
00:15:52
part of the Samsung AI update it was kind of confusing how Bixby didn't get any love but then there's tons of AI all
00:15:58
around yeah whatever anyway so Google Assistant yeah I think I've used it again for a
00:16:03
lot of similar stuff to you and I mean Gemini 1.0 with Gemini ult Jesus I'm GNA yes this is the thing that you was it
00:16:09
Gemini with ultra Ultra 1.0 I've been using Gemini yeah and uh not to be
00:16:15
confused with Will Smith's movie um and it has a lot of overlap with the stuff
00:16:21
that I was using Google Assistant for but it also actually didn't do some of the things that assistant did do so it's
00:16:26
like picking up mostly where ass left off for me and it does way more of that fun stuff like explaining things and
00:16:32
generating things but I I needed to like Loop in you can't do home control and stuff with it that's like so like this
00:16:39
is sort of the whole like what's going on my brain's starting to hurt thing that that's going on with the Google Assistant thing is like everyone just
00:16:46
assumed that Google was just going to add large language model capabilities to
00:16:52
assistant cuz Google Assistant the like hayg branding has very strong brand
00:16:57
recognition it's been around since 2016 it's in a ton of um of like smart speakers it's in people's cars in
00:17:03
Android auto like they've been using that hot word and the Google Assistant logo is recognizable to most people yeah
00:17:10
so for them to like be developing this whole separate thing on the side just feels very strange I assume that they
00:17:16
were doing that with Bard so they could develop it and make it not hallucinate and lie to you before they coupled it in
00:17:24
with Google Assistant which has the ability to like control your Home Smart stuff um I don't really know why they didn't
00:17:31
just keep developing Bard until it was ready to couple in with Google Assistant I knew they were going to kill Bard at
00:17:36
some point but why are they rebranding it already I have no idea yeah the branding thing is confusing to me yeah I
00:17:43
was just as someone who hasn't gotten to test it so I have no real input in this what I will say is Bard is a great name
00:17:50
but I'm very sad they're getting rid of it I would much rather when it gets to that point hey Bard yo Bard what as the
00:17:57
the like wakeup word mhm hey G the full thing is extremely
00:18:03
annoying to say and I feel like I just Mumble it to the point where now it doesn't really recognize me anymore hey Gemini is going to be annoying if
00:18:09
there's someone in the future who watches this also where no no no I don't think there isn't a hot word for this the smart well if it does go to do you
00:18:16
think it just gets you said if it eventually pairs eventually they're going to it's going to be Google
00:18:22
Assistant powered by Gemini okay yeah so it's still an annoying Google to say yes
00:18:28
I want hey Bard that's so much better well you can forget about Bard he's dead yeah that it's also there's like a
00:18:33
little balance I have to strike of it can't be too easy to say because you might accidentally say it with other syllables Siri and Siri are both yeah
00:18:40
well The Accidental Triggers on Siri go hard so maybe that's
00:18:46
yeah does that whenever I say sorry it always triggers yeah so yeah there's a there's a balancing act but I agree yeah
00:18:53
it's is a little confusing that it is developed in sort of a separate Silo from gole Google assistant and then I
00:19:00
suppose at some point eventually it'll be good enough that they feel like combining it all into one Mega new rebranded named thing maybe knows but I
00:19:07
feel like they're just going to name it Siri eventually yeah that's the the loop we're going to encounter it'll be called
00:19:12
Google Messenger I just want to read a quote I just want to read a quote from like the the press release that they
00:19:18
sent me all right Bard will be called Gemini and we're rolling out a mobile app and Gemini Advanced with ultra 1.0
00:19:26
God that's not confusing at all okay so it's a lot of words sounds like some startup event where you're just like I
00:19:33
think I UND I'm too embarrassed to ask if I I have a theory is Gemini is a constellation no yes and we always see
00:19:40
the stars to represent uh the AI thing yeah maybe that's why they had a reason
00:19:45
why they called it Gemini they publicly said that David why do they use the twinkly stars to represent a I'm going
00:19:51
to Japan to find out oh yeah I'm interviewing the guy who invented the Emoji in Japan there is he going to
00:20:00
explain everything I hope so I hope so too that sounds sick okay yeah I want to know how big the team at Google is that
00:20:07
just names things do you think there's at least a hundred employees that are just naming things or do you think it's
00:20:12
all the teams that are naming things I think it's one employee and he's 15 feet tall and he has this giant chair and
00:20:17
they go in and they go oh king of names what shall we name this and he goes
00:20:24
Gemini and they go I and he goes wait wait never mind Ellis that was all embargoed we weren't allowed to say that
00:20:30
so this is actually way too in the weeds and only really makes sense for people that were working at Google at the time
00:20:36
yeah it's not a really fun reason why they called it Gemini the reason they called it Gemini is because the AST
00:20:42
astrological sign for Gemini is the twins right yeah and it's pal and Lambda
00:20:48
no uh no no no when they had Google Deep Mind and Google
00:20:53
brain uh both at Google at the same time that were kind of doing very similar task they merged them there was a trivia
00:21:00
question about it I feel like yeah this sounds familiar the merger of Google uh Deep Mind and Google brain into just
00:21:06
Google deep mind they called it Gemini because they were merging the twins which is what happens in the
00:21:12
constellation and it also is a constellation which is Stars and now it's associated with the
00:21:17
Stars B is better that giant does good work I also love this quote the Twins were the brain team which worked on llm
00:21:24
such as palm and the Deep Mind team which Wen worked on the chinchilla what's the chinchilla project I don't
00:21:30
know that's the guy in the big chair click that link right now sound like a horror movie is the chinchilla project
00:21:36
is this a dog looking at a lemon merang pie anyway um yeah so so that'll be fun
00:21:44
and I'm I'm kind of excited that there was going to be a dedicated app for it and I'm hoping that you'll be able to
00:21:50
map that to the action button on the iPhone 15 because previously uh we've
00:21:56
been testing the Bard with Gemini capabilities Bard Advanced which has
00:22:02
Gemini 1.0 in it which is not anyway Ultra 1.0 yeah we sorry I didn't want no you're right
00:22:09
you're right I'm just frustrated we've been testing that uh but you weren't able previously to launch that app
00:22:15
immediately with the action button on the iPhone 15 you could only launch the Google app because the only way to
00:22:22
actually interact with the BART Advance thing was in the Google App instead of the assistant app
00:22:29
so you guys are all probably really bored right now and dozing off wake up
00:22:35
and let's continue the podcast the new UI is cool I like yeah I like it it's got pretty colors no it's got this new
00:22:41
uh what's the weather tomorrow big text and then it's still just writing
00:22:49
what you're saying now I was just G to write what I'm saying but that's right yeah it's doing things yeah and I like the stars yeah anyway that would be
00:22:58
that let's move on let's move on let's move on to something that also won't take forever to talk about despite one
00:23:05
Samsung executive says there's no such thing as a real picture my God oh my God and that's it we're moving on we're
00:23:10
moving on I can see the steam coming out of David's ears I saw this headline and I was like that's crazy that he just
00:23:17
said it and then I opened the Verge article and it starts with the Samsung VP saying there was a very nice video by
00:23:23
Marquez brownley last year and I went oh my God don't pull me this I don't want
00:23:29
to be resp don't make me part of this but it's basically his argument is the full-on
00:23:36
philosophical what what's a picture anyway like if you expose a sensor and
00:23:41
it goes through algorithms to decide what to show on your screen it's just making it up it's not there's no real
00:23:47
picture David take a deep breath just film photography is the only way to take a real photo and that's probably what he
00:23:54
would say too you're literally having photons just hit the silver Hol crystals and create a negative that is I think
00:24:01
the only way to take a real photo which is based on photons doesn't it make a difference what film stock you use
00:24:07
though not really because you're still capturing the photons like I well not capturing I guess but doesn't come out
00:24:13
differently based on the fil so then would you argue that maybe only some film stock is a real photo and the other
00:24:19
one's adding too much of a stylization to it they all add a stylization also sounds like not a photo to me sounds
00:24:25
like a little different to me photo is if you shoot it on film and then you use an enlarger to print with photosensitive
00:24:34
chemicals and an enlarger with a bunch of light because as soon as you scan the scanner also digitizes it and puts it
00:24:42
through like if you use a Fuji scanner versus like there's all these different scanners and they apply different looks
00:24:47
I feel like your argument just was the same argument that I had but you said I was wrong I think you're all agreeing
00:24:53
there's no such thing as a real photo I think that's well then what is a photo
00:25:00
I'm just saying here we go if there is no answer to the question I also hope you know I'm mostly just screwing I know
00:25:06
I know I'm angry you could even make the argument that the photo part ends as
00:25:11
soon as it passes through a lens because the light would have never been focused that way it would have just bound it off
00:25:17
ambiently yeah I just think it's funny that I'm removing photo from the English dictionary yeah this is a stupid thing
00:25:23
to say it is a stupid thing to say but we used to always just say whenever we talked about AI stuff like what is a
00:25:28
picture and we used to get comments being like can you guys shut up with this saying just what is a picture now the Samsung executive is also throwing
00:25:34
that card he's quoting us like hey look they don't think it's a picture we don't
00:25:40
think it's a picture nothing's a picture it's fine everything's fine this is also the same company that like plasters the
00:25:46
moon onto the picture that's what he referenced that's what he's referencing yeah he literally okay he I'll just read
00:25:51
the quote cuz he said he said he told tech radar there's a very nice video by Marquez brownley last year on the moon picture everyone was like is it fake is
00:25:57
it not fake there's a debate around what constitutes a real picture and actually there's no such thing as a real picture as soon as you have sensors to capture
00:26:04
something you reproduce what you're seeing and it doesn't mean anything there's no real picture you can try to define a real picture by saying I took
00:26:10
it but there's AI autofocus is it real or is it all filters there is no real
00:26:15
picture full stop that guy I hope that guy hires a wedding photographer at some
00:26:20
point and he just gets back a bunch of mid Journey H happy married couple and then the photographer is like there's no
00:26:26
such thing as a picture what did you hire me to do what I what am I paying you for yeah I just generated them with
00:26:32
Gemini you said that technically the lens would change it but our eyes are also lenses that bend the light and
00:26:38
photos but different lenses yeah but we're not yeah but we're not taking photos we're not taking photos we're
00:26:43
living life we're getting a constant stream of photos the speed at which our our I get
00:26:51
it so we can't actually see is what you're saying well we see everything upside down but our brains flip them we
00:26:56
also see in l laty also color doesn't exist it's so you're now mly breathing
00:27:02
because everything is the everything is the reflects everyone you heard it here first nothing is real that is everything
00:27:08
but red commit crimes do it wait wait wait wait wait wait okay
00:27:15
cuz no okay this question driv people the madness you can do anything kids
00:27:21
it's like having the one ring it's just Samsung said so I kind of feel like his own quote here like kind of argues for
00:27:29
against himself he's like you can try and Define a real picture by saying I took that picture but if you use AI to
00:27:35
optimize the zoom the autofocus the scene is it real or is it filters there's no real picture full stop it
00:27:40
kind of sounds like he's saying well if you don't use AI or Zoom or an autofocus then it is a real picture but he's still
00:27:46
saying as soon as you have sensors to capture oh he said that also I love how he brings up the moon thing and then he
00:27:53
completely diverts away from it well arguably the thr me under the bus man it feels like he's using all these other
00:27:58
things to basically say like no that definitely was not a real picture and we got caught doing it yeah he's saying
00:28:05
yeah we got CAU but photos don't exist anyway so why are you mad actually basically yeah he like there were never
00:28:11
photos to begin with so what are you so mad about I'm just showing you the moon you were taking a picture of in the
00:28:16
first place yeah we need to go to the next Samsung event and when they say the s25 takes great photos you just go
00:28:23
there's no such thing as photos what next section of reviews does wikipedia
00:28:28
define photo as I'm looking photograph okay a
00:28:34
photograph also known as photo image or picture is an image created by light falling on a photosensitive surface
00:28:41
usually photographic film or electronic image sensor so like so just the light
00:28:47
hitting the sensor is the photo none of the processing pipeline created by the light oh falling on the photosensitive
00:28:55
surface that's technically incorrect cuz the light hitting the sensor doesn't create anything until the sensor goes
00:29:01
all right here's the data to the processor here's the processing here's thing that created by light falling on
00:29:06
the photosensitive surface so the light it is created by it because the light falls on the CCD sensor or on the but if
00:29:13
it's off nothing happens it doesn't fall light never Falls I like I like that
00:29:19
edit this Wikipedia page I like that definition because no matter what
00:29:25
processing the camera is doing it's still a photo it's still working like
00:29:30
there there's an input which is the light on the sensor and then there's an output which is a file that we can see
00:29:36
with a photograph exactly with the moon thing for example those pixels were not
00:29:42
informed by light hitting the sensor they were informed by light hitting a sensor at some point somewhere else but
00:29:48
then at that point it's the same as photosh yeah which we've all decided although everything else isz is g to
00:29:53
rock my they only showed up there because of the way light was hitting the
00:29:59
sensor and then it said oh moon yeah but because of the way the light hit the
00:30:05
it's a meta decision and not not an image decision Samsung decision it was automatically triggered by the Light
00:30:11
hitting a sensor a certain way that's true along the rest of that but here's my argument and we might have to cut
00:30:20
this no hey I appreciate you going before but
00:30:25
if an act is on the cover of a magazine okay and
00:30:31
he is super ugly MH okay someone will Photoshop him
00:30:37
to be less ugly before he's on the cover of that magazine I'm with you him being that ugly in the original picture is
00:30:43
what triggered the decision to alter the photograph to composite it into a new image and it's the same thing where
00:30:50
something in the original image triggered a compositing behavior and but we would all say that's not a real
00:30:56
photograph he's ugly right so that's how I feel about the the moon thing it's like yes you're right something happened
00:31:03
at the input stage that made it do this work but because the actual image work
00:31:09
is a composite job yeah I'm saying not photo which is why I like I have something to up to you based on that
00:31:15
Ellis okay yeah so almost every smartphone uses multiframe HDR now and
00:31:22
so having an IM having an image that is either too bright or too dark informs
00:31:27
the phone to need to take multiple shots comp comp I was just also going to say
00:31:33
so many phones do just automatic skin smoothing which is essentially the exact thing you were just talking about so
00:31:39
phones aren't pictures so phones are not photos but but photos are real photos are real photos are real guys I would
00:31:46
say you're not a real photographer unless you have a real camera that's how we go welcome to the goal post
00:31:53
podcast we've moved it so many times am I the only one that with him love to G
00:31:58
no I think I kind of technically agree with him in that my definition of a like if you just have light hitting a sensor
00:32:06
but it's off nothing happens and I think the second that the sensor is on and has
00:32:13
to turn that light information into Data signal it is being processed and it is
00:32:18
now in the realm of no longer actually no it's a photo a photo yeah I would say it's not a photo it's not a photo yeah
00:32:25
because it's being process if we if we go by the we wikpedia definition which I think is a good one I
00:32:30
think it's a safe one I would it BRS us back to reality a little bit right it's like if we go by this and it just says
00:32:36
an image created by light falling on a photographic surface such as a photographic film or electronic image
00:32:42
sensor we can just say everything is a photo but it was but like a smartphone
00:32:50
photo was heavily altered by AI or multiframe HDR so things are all all
00:32:56
things are photo phot but how were they altered I like that so the output isn't a
00:33:02
photo um no no I can't wait for the next Verge article altered photo how about
00:33:08
that it's an altered photo Alo which is why it has a little Watermark of stars that only the AI the only the AI ones
00:33:15
until you automatically remove it every photo is an altered photo unless you take it on a real
00:33:21
camera it's Schrodinger's images and actually those are altered too there are no because of JP compression anyway so
00:33:28
wait what we officially have gone nowhere this is a 6-hour podcast uh
00:33:33
we're have to we have gotten somewhere and that's that that is a stupid thing to say maybe don't put that in but wow
00:33:39
that is a stupid executive don't throw us under the bus like this oh I feel like they're already getting ready to
00:33:44
quote Marquez for the next time they talk about for the next one that would be a mistake credit us all please yeah
00:33:51
or don't comment in the comment section about what a real photo is I think it's a great time to take a break I think I
00:33:57
need a smoke break is trivia season 4 season 4
00:34:04
question everyone is tied up 00 Z first question what is a photo first question
00:34:11
what were the five yes five iPhone 5c colors o you have to get all five to get
00:34:19
a single point to get a single point whoa yep that was a All or Nothing proposition what is a color denied color
00:34:27
aren't real yeah what is your proposition actually everything but green everything but yellow yes yes keep
00:34:33
going keep going yes okay no yeah we'll think about that they're all pale I remember that because they're plastic
00:34:39
pale plastic colors does c stand for cheap color it stood for stood for to see colorful
00:34:46
and we'll be right back thank you
00:34:55
Alice this episode is brought to you by visible Wireless okay so visible
00:35:01
Wireless is one of our partners and they're pretty great they asked me to talk about why visible might not be interesting for you pretty refreshing
00:35:09
right so visible base plan with unlimited 5G data on Verizon's Network for 25 bucks a month works great for
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lots of people so what's not to love well they're all digital so you do everything from managing your plan to
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getting customer service right in their app so if you love to handle everything without ever needing to talk to a human in a store visible great but if you need
00:35:27
a shop for a new phone in person visible probably isn't for you someone like Verizon might be a better choice if you
00:35:33
want your wireless bundled with a bunch of extra stuff don't switch to visible but heads up you're going to have to pay
00:35:38
for that extra stuff visible is focused on the wireless part of Wireless so if you want more than unlimited 5G data
00:35:44
from your Wireless plan and to pay top dollar for it then by all means don't switch to visible don't even go to
00:35:50
visible.com to learn more you get it rate with service on the visible plan for additional terms and network management practices see visible.com
00:35:57
all right welcome back let's talk about we got like two more sections that are fairly uh focused unlike the last
00:36:03
section the last section was focused up until we I think we did a Admiral admirable job of
00:36:10
not okay focus it was very second half of podcast to start Google Google chaos
00:36:18
I thought I was smart I never did this this middle section we can talk Vision Pro updates cuz there are some Vision
00:36:24
Pro updates already we learned some new things and it's also an update the main fun thing is it fun I don't know yeah it
00:36:31
G everything he did his usual uh taking apart and durability testing fun fact
00:36:37
like one of the top comments on our video about Vision Pro was I can't wait for this to be scratches at level six
00:36:42
with deeper at level seven like that was like a 40,000 like comment on our video turns out it scratched at level two with
00:36:51
deeper groups at level three so we're trying to figure out what's going on if you watch Zach's video Apple does claim
00:36:57
the Vision Pro has laminated glass on the front Which is less scratch resistant but more crack resistant
00:37:04
potentially um it kind of is like a screen protector that comes pre-installed on a phone so you can and
00:37:11
we actually have accidentally already gotten a little scratch on the outside of the Vision Pro ideally this will not
00:37:17
affect the performance of The Vision Pro also update it was actually scratches level three with deeper GP level yeah my
00:37:24
bad I wrote that down wrong yeah got it so yeah it's it's notably not just glass on the outside of the Vision Pro yeah it
00:37:30
still smudges like glass it still fingerprints like glass that carrying cloth that they give you I think it's
00:37:37
actually good to use it all the time because I suspect that the sensors are trying to see through the smudges and
00:37:42
the cleaner you can keep it the better the performance will be so that's all good to know but yeah that outside layer
00:37:48
is a little bit of a composite going on yeah if you scratch it over Those
00:37:53
sensors that's bad yeah we were talking about Apple Care for this thing and Apple Care for the Vision Pro is $500
00:38:00
but what it gets you is $500 off of replacing the outside glass so it would
00:38:06
normally be like $800 but now it's 300 with Apple Care I guess like it's a
00:38:11
little different so it's $500 over two years if you break the glass it cost
00:38:17
$299 to replace so if you break it one time it costs about $800 which if you
00:38:24
break it without Apple Care it costs about $800 but it's a little better if you plan on breaking it more than once
00:38:29
in two years because then you only pay another $300 right that's like the worst appli you're basically losing money if
00:38:36
you don't you should get apple care if you plan on buying breaking it more than once basically over two years over two
00:38:42
years yeah the thing is and that's this is one of those new form factors for Apple anyway where I kind of we're about
00:38:48
to get a lot of data on how often this thing breaks when you pick it up I think a lot of people's instinct is to pick it up by the Light seal but it's just a
00:38:55
magnetically attached like lightweight plastic thing and if you pick it up by the light you can just drop the headset you have to like remember to pick it up
00:39:01
by the metal and it's kind of weird to pick it up by the glass on the front cuz I think I'm smudging it every time I do
00:39:06
it so it's kind of an interesting learning curve there I would say like well when we have the Dual Loop one on
00:39:12
that's easy to just grab the top Loop because it feels right but yeah all the all the time I'm like oh I'm about to
00:39:19
pick up the glass I don't want to smudge it so I just pick up the light seal and then like it like starts falling off and
00:39:24
I catch it yeah with the quest I just gra the front I don't care cuz it's just plastic on the front mostly during our
00:39:30
demo sessions they specifically were like put your thumb in the center where the uh nose bridge is and then put your
00:39:37
other fingers on the top so on the metal part yeah you pick it up that way and
00:39:42
then you do that but it's like that's so specific say real you're holding it wrong Apple has had specific holding
00:39:48
instructions before we'll put it that way yeah yeah so so watch Zach's video it's linked in the description it is
00:39:55
pretty detailed I would never be able to do what he does with a knife in the Vision Pro so it's also really cool because he like rips all the cloth
00:40:01
interior and the the screens out and like seeing the inside of it even he says it's like it is very it's beautiful
00:40:08
inside just how well it's put together it is people kind of gave me a little bit of flag for that when I said this
00:40:13
thing is very efficiently built it actually is even though yes it is metal and has a lot of glass and those choices
00:40:18
are not efficient but with those things that they've decided to do the thing is tightly compact maybe us humans aren't
00:40:25
efficient enough for the glory that is Vision Pro it it has carbon fiber
00:40:31
magnesium uh multiple motors and hinges fans vents glass computers dedicated
00:40:38
processing chips Ram battery on the side it's got a lot it's got a lot of it's got a lot of lightning going yeah like
00:40:45
it's really funny so the someone right before it officially came out uh had in
00:40:51
the on the battery put a SIM removal tool in the battery to pop out that non removable cable and it turns out it's
00:40:58
like lightning plus but even better the C the like connector that connects the
00:41:06
headphone portion of it to the rest of the headset is like lightning Max so I
00:41:11
have that because I bought the development cable oh yeah which plugs
00:41:17
directly in so you'd have to take the SIM card tray ejected or whatever and plug this in to get USB out straight out
00:41:23
of the Vision Pro and so yeah I've got this giant slightly curved lightning cable
00:41:30
interesting and there's just lightning everywhere yeah this thing they they can't help themselves they love their little lightning I saw an article
00:41:36
earlier today that was just like that says the it's a $300 developer strap right and apparently sorry I paid $300
00:41:45
for that apparently it's only USB 2 also what why I guess there's only going
00:41:52
to be a number of developers that do that and they probably don't care about speeds except for us but we're not developers I mean you're you're loading
00:41:58
your app onto the Vision Pro you're like testing and and loading be nicer faster but they probably don't we bought it
00:42:04
because we wanted to hope that it's potentially going to let us feedback video in the actual 4K without
00:42:11
stuttering the device so in that case we would like speed in terms of sending it back but I have a feeling it's not going
00:42:17
to do that I'm going to try I'll keep you posted if it works yeah we'll see
00:42:22
yeah no case's video on the Vision Pro is also pretty incredible I've you seen that yeah he like walks around New York City and I everyone's got a different
00:42:29
like angle to look at Vision Pro his was just like walking around with it and seeing people's reactions like vintage
00:42:35
KC around the city and some of the scenes in that video are hilarious Kim in the donut shop I don't this is the
00:42:42
thing about like using the Vision Pro there are all kinds of videos now of people wandering around outside using the Vision Pro and they're all going
00:42:48
viral and they're all really dystopian and oh we're so screwed this guy behind the driver's seat they're all fake 75%
00:42:55
of them are either fake because you see them doing all sorts of gestures that actually don't make sense in The Vision Pro or they're just weird decisions to
00:43:03
use it in that place like I feel like we talked about this last time I use it half in the same sort of time that I
00:43:10
would have used an iPad like there's a video of a guy crossing the street like moving Windows around like I wouldn't be
00:43:15
on my iPad crossing the street moving Windows around yeah yeah yeah um but you you could in The Vision Pro so they're
00:43:21
doing it anyway Casey has this scene where he's in like a donut shop and he like loads up the dinosaur demo which
00:43:28
comes pre-installed and literally like has the butterfly land on a donut and it cuts back and forth to like him with
00:43:33
this incredibly immersive experience in a dinosaur and a butterfly landing on a donut and they cuss the outside and
00:43:39
there's people like watching a guy like like holding a donut like it doesn't look it's hilarious I love that video I
00:43:46
want to know how loud his volume is on that because that is just dinosaurs roaring at like very loud the loudest
00:43:52
app on the Vision Pro it's so loud I love um Captain disillusion had a tweet about somebody using it on the subway
00:43:58
and he said when out in public and someone glances at me for a microsc too long I rush to check if maybe a strand
00:44:03
of hair is slightly out of place I could never do this wearing Vision Pro in public is a choice is a choice I have
00:44:12
been very vocal about my desire to use it on a plane I have to admit there's a little part of me that's a little
00:44:17
worried about what that looks like yeah but I'm going to do it anyway I think that it will become normalized you know
00:44:25
I think normalized in not in public like on on the ex exact but on the plane yeah
00:44:31
yeah cuz you would you would have an iPad on the plane or an iPad in random places and that's fine yeah I don't
00:44:37
think it will be yeah it will not be normalized as this like walking around that we're seeing people especially because you have like if you actually
00:44:43
want Windows to do anything you have to pinch them and bring them with you or else they just disappear so it literally makes no sense it's been really funny
00:44:50
people have been like this is the only product where I can legitimately lose virtual displays throughout my house
00:44:57
like where did I leave that there was this really funny uh viral photo where someone was like oh that's where I left it and YouTube was just in in front of
00:45:04
the toilet that's exactly what happens and it just stays there it just stays there
00:45:10
which is incredible it's a feature yeah it is a feature because a lot of people like the idea is throughout your house
00:45:17
in different like media centers like in front of your computer Hub you've got certain apps and then sitting on the
00:45:23
couch you've got a giant screen like where your TV might be and for that kind of use case that's pretty cool that you
00:45:29
can just use one headset to like replace a lot of products again it is only an isolated device that you cannot enjoy
00:45:36
with anyone else in your life so if you're lonely and sad Like Me Maybe it's a great product but um for everyone else
00:45:43
might be a problem I have a bunch of things that have been coming to my mind over the past couple days that I think I
00:45:49
may turn into a video which is what I think would be the best things to improve for the next Vision Pro I don't
00:45:56
think it's going to be a yearly product necessarily like we got airpods Max like years ago we're still waiting for the
00:46:01
second gen like I think Vision Pro is going to live for a little while before we see the next one but for the second
00:46:07
Vision Pro one of the things you're talking about shared experiences I think that would be such a natural and
00:46:13
enormous Advantage for apple is to make everyone with vision Pros be able to share experiences with each other yeah
00:46:19
to be able to look at the same object in the same room now you might not think that's particularly useful but let's say
00:46:25
I'm in an office in California and someone else is in an office in Mexico and we both open the same 3D object in
00:46:32
front of us and we manipulate it and show it to each other just that connecting uh of the same thing would be
00:46:40
like huge I was surprised that that's so far not really a thing right that's one
00:46:45
of the mo like the comments I've seen the most is just like cool it has a lot of these other things and it's super
00:46:50
well made but like my quest 3 I can go visit someone who's nowhere near me and we can can do something together and
00:46:57
like that's such a cool part of VR what's that called um something room there's a something yeah recck room it's
00:47:04
hilarious but it's the fundamental purpose is you are in the same room as someone else wearing the headset VR chat
00:47:10
yeah all they're hilarious they're super fun so like that I'm shocked that that doesn't exist for Vision Pro there's another app the sky guide which is like
00:47:16
all the constellations in the sky they have a laser pointer feature so I can like point at the lasers and and like show them in the sky but like no one can
00:47:22
see what I'm looking at I'm like pointing lasers at the the point of the Las nobody else can see it yeah exactly
00:47:27
so that's like my number one number two is you can leave windows around your
00:47:35
house for example when you pack up the Vision Pro and bring it to a new place like let's say your office you can start
00:47:42
opening windows again and they will disappear from your house and open in the new place so if I have Safari open
00:47:50
at home and I go home or sorry so if I have Safari open at home home and I open
00:47:56
up a window and I put YouTube in front of the toilet and then I drive to the studio and I open it up and I open up
00:48:02
Safari it's still there and I need to either grab that window from there or
00:48:07
try some other things so I want to be able to have saved environments where
00:48:13
the pins load back up where I was I agree so I can come back home at the end of the day and even though I use Safari
00:48:21
at the office it's YouTube is still pinned they're like expecting that you're only going to use it in one space
00:48:26
which is kind of silly yeah did you ever play Skate 2 or I think skate three did the same mechanic I don't think so in
00:48:32
either of those Xbox games you could drop your board and just like run around on your feet to like climb ladders and
00:48:38
stuff like that and no matter where you were in the game like you could leave your board miles away if you hit one of
00:48:43
the triggers you just stick out your hand and go yep that's what we need yeah
00:48:49
no that's what's happening that's what's happening that's what's happening you're summoning what I want to do is be able to leave the skateboard and then have
00:49:00
it we want to be a to get home immediately load up the home environment and then all the windows are where I
00:49:05
want them to be in my home and then when you get to the studio it loads it up and they're all in the studio I just find it funny that I now also have to clean up
00:49:12
my virtual world as well as my actual house as well you can just say heyes
00:49:17
close everything will and then your life ends and then everything closes including you
00:49:23
you will be ended when you die dim dimmer dimmer you feel the view start
00:49:29
drinking no yeah I so those are my two big Vision Pro like feature requests
00:49:35
that I think would make a massive difference to the way people use Vision Pro there's all sorts of other little things I want the field of view to be
00:49:40
wider I want the battery life to be longer blah blah blah we get the the weight sure but you know I think that
00:49:46
might be a video we end up putting together I think it's truly wild to me that they don't have more share play
00:49:51
stuff yeah because it it seems insane that they could easily be like oh we
00:49:57
both have an 80in TV now that we could just like watch together but we don't actually have to have a TV there the
00:50:02
closest thing is FaceTime does let you share your view because obviously you can't hold things up to your camera when
00:50:08
it's your persona so you can hit this button where it shares your view and then through a window you can see the
00:50:13
firstperson view of what the front of that person's Vision Pro sees so that's just like the regular you do that on an
00:50:18
iPhone you know yeah I was going to say yeah it's just like flipping your but it's two hands instead of one cuz it's on your face so that's kind of cool but
00:50:25
it's not what we were hoping I feel like that's me saying like Claire let's both watch this movie together and I watch it
00:50:30
and that and then I give her an an iPad that's showing what I'm seeing and she could just watch it on the iPad it cool
00:50:36
they had like family groups and then you could set up what apps people could automatically see so like if you were
00:50:43
okay with your partner seeing what you had open on Safari or whatever you could just say they can always see my safari
00:50:49
windows floating but then if you had another app that you didn't want them to see when they walked by they wouldn't
00:50:54
see it so yeah yeah the thing about Vision Pro and many other Apple devices
00:50:59
is apple does not want you to share them they want you to buy another one yeah true and that's the most like iPad thing
00:51:05
ever they don't have multiple profiles on the iPad and that is the most obvious the most obvious thing by your kid and
00:51:11
iPad I just learned that the other day it's insane so they want you to buy another iPad yeah and I think the Vision
00:51:17
Pro will forever be that also as long as it's Apple doing Apple things painful uh
00:51:22
anyway there is an update to some of the software it's still in beta but there is a developer update to The Vision Pro I
00:51:29
don't even know if they have an OS number is it like 1.1 1.01 I think so
00:51:35
the main thing that people are noticing is it's improving the personas a little bit I looked at the before and after
00:51:40
some they were posting and it doesn't look that different to me but this is the one thing that is so notably in beta
00:51:46
that people are keeping an eye on how the personas Evolve over time so it's evolving over time it's it has begun
00:51:52
they're going to continue to make these look I imagine slightly more realistic and slightly more complete over and over
00:51:58
again over time oh it is 1.1 not 1.01 okay yeah but still beta yes beta yeah
00:52:03
develop so there's that keeping an eye on it also uh before this 1.1 update if
00:52:09
you forgot your Vision Pro password you were just boned like there was nothing you could
00:52:15
do yeah so but now they have a way to reset the Vision Pro if you forget your
00:52:22
password through your iPhone or just like on it um I'm not sure okay I just know you now can okay that's good great
00:52:28
yeah because I have I have um what's the id called again optic ID I have that but
00:52:34
every time you boot it up you do need to put in your password or passcode yeah so that's good to know all right yeah
00:52:40
Vision Pro updates everybody it's happening another update I would love for the Vision Pro is to never see it on
00:52:46
my social feeds ever again because for the last week um there has been no other
00:52:52
content and I'm really annoyed we say that as we talk about the vision for this seventh podcast don't worry I got
00:52:57
your OnePlus 12 review coming right up that's little combo breaker nice little
00:53:03
combo breaker for your feed thank you I got you I need it all right we do have a
00:53:08
whole another section that is totally focused after the break so before we get into that let's do
00:53:17
trivia I think I should make that pause longer and longer every time the trivia pause before we get into
00:53:24
it let's do trivia and I just have you seen okay so the NBA sorry this is a go go
00:53:30
for the uh NBA highlights the guy who voices over the NBA.com highlights every
00:53:36
day on YouTube the goatmentator yes he's got this like incredible style where he like says and you know here I'll just
00:53:43
play an example he'll he'll go over the NBA highlights for the day and at the end of every video he says and that's been your nba.com top 10 and people
00:53:51
started noticing he started saying it faster and faster every single time dere fav with the big
00:53:59
smash number one on the [Music]
00:54:06
NBA.com dude's got more range than a cell tower watch him go off the glass
00:54:13
with class to send the game into OT Russell Westbrook number one on the
00:54:23
NBA.com a goat so anyway we're doing the opposite of
00:54:29
that but he does [Music] go wow he only does that for himself and
00:54:36
I love it wow all right I don't remember epic yeah that's where we
00:54:44
were are the lights doing different things they look a little brighter uh it's cuz David was
00:54:50
singing oh ah oh that's literally why they oh oh
00:54:57
[Music] nice all right trivia and just cuz I
00:55:03
want to kick off this season with a bang we're going to make this question worth three that's three points three litches
00:55:11
let's go are you ready what are the three
00:55:17
Lees that would be a good question a great
00:55:24
question sorry okay yes what is yes three points yes three points Samsung one of the
00:55:31
biggest companies in the world can have its name translated into
00:55:36
English as three stars each one of those Stars
00:55:43
represents something oh my God
00:55:50
what three just send just send it that's it three things we all have to name three things answers are going to be so
00:55:55
good each star what does each star life liberty stand for I don't okay wow I'm
00:56:04
this is a real shot in thee dark sorry I had to come up with a question really fast and it no I love it I love it I
00:56:09
love it my sister we'll be back after this C truck the R2 and the pche ti all right let's go okay we'll be right back
00:56:16
we'll be right
00:56:23
back all right welcome back to the wave form
00:56:30
podcast you might have heard the EV in my voice there I did we've got three EVS
00:56:35
that have major interesting stories about them that we should talk about they are Porsche tyan rivan and Tesla
00:56:43
cybertruck where should we start do you want to flip a three-sided coin
00:56:50
three a pyramid wait yeah pyramid ad four sides but a D3 is Pyramid shaped
00:56:57
yeah what the the base doesn't count rivan R2 rivian R2 oh okay thanks three
00:57:03
sided die rivan R2 is pretty sick okay we don't actually know anything about it but the idea of it is pretty sick right
00:57:10
so we got this announcement March 7th we are going to learn something about this
00:57:17
next rivan platform but this entire time and we've interviewed RJ on this podcast before and talked about it is Riv rivian
00:57:23
has been very clear that the rivian r1t and r1s are built on the R1 platform and
00:57:30
they are their most capable most premium vehicles and they are planning to do a less expensive still capable but
00:57:38
possibly slightly smaller R2 platform that's all we know we know nothing about the vehicles that will be on the
00:57:44
platform or any of the details and March 7th we're going to find out some of that stuff and I'm excited we're all excited
00:57:50
I have a question I'm very excited um did he specifically say smaller and I'll
00:57:56
I'll tell you why I'm asking that's a good question I would have to double check he might not have explicitly said smaller well good let's just pretend he
00:58:03
didn't say that so then I can speculate here and make a conversation out of absolutely nothing okay okay so and
00:58:08
Gadget had an article that said the R2 platform is expected to start with a smaller SUV but then said reportedly
00:58:14
about the size of a Jeep Grand Cherokee which a Grand Cherokee compared to an r1s is barely very similar sized the
00:58:22
Wagoner is the big one yeah but still the Jeep Grand Cher I'll pull up you've seen that car Grand Cherokee three rows
00:58:28
I don't think it is I don't think it is but it's still fairly big have you ever been on car you know car sized right
00:58:34
yeah really awesome website if no one's ever been to it where you can put two cars and they go right next to each other I grew up on a Grand Cherokee yeah
00:58:40
but a grand chokee has changed sized a lot since I thought you grew up in Jersey yeah um 2022 I'm wondering if in gadget
00:58:48
meant a just a Cherokee a Jeep Cherokee which is smaller and more closer to like a Forester which is I want so bad but a
00:58:57
rivan or one the big difference here might be three rows versus two rows so that's what I'm wondering because I I'm
00:59:03
hoping it doesn't get that large yeah so the r1s if you've seen our review it is three rows and it is a wonderful vehicle
00:59:10
but let's be real the third row is very small but they've jammed three rows into it that's very similar sized right it is
00:59:18
similar but you got a couple inches off and it's two rows so now you have two normal fulls sizee rows and a big trunk
00:59:24
yeah which I I think is what a lot of people also want so that's what I'm wondering like if it's just the like
00:59:29
less capable version it would still be very similarly sized but maybe doesn't have triple motor and Max battery pack
00:59:35
and like all these crazy like crawling features and like off-roading and whatnot which I hope it's more of a just
00:59:42
smaller version I think that's what RJ means by less capable like the r1t right
00:59:48
now the flag ship the launch edition this thing is a quad motor 800
00:59:53
horsepower pickup truck that's the Cherokee yeah that's a lot smaller yeah
00:59:58
yeah that's a different class of vehicle yeah I think I think what he means by less capable is you could easily go
01:00:05
single or dual motor you can go less horsepower you can go less crazy Tire setup you can go even less crazy
01:00:12
features like the thing has a flashlight in the door and a Bluetooth speaker under the armrest and all sorts of other things and he was clear mostly about
01:00:20
them wanting to keep the adventuress of it so they might choose to keep some of the fun Frills that make it characterful
01:00:27
the headlights the front trunk Etc but yeah it'll be a balancing act for them to like cut Corners that meaningfully
01:00:33
reduce the cost but don't meaningfully reduce the character that's why I think you would aim towards smaller size cuz
01:00:39
like if the rumor seems to be 40 to 60 and I feel like if you have something that's only a couple inches smaller and
01:00:45
that big that's a much cheaper or maybe that rumor is just totally wrong 40 to
01:00:51
60 is interesting like when I look at their range right now they're at like Model S and X prices with their
01:00:56
flagships so to go down to 40 to 60 is right around model 3 and model y
01:01:02
so maybe I feel like I'm psyching myself out to what I want this to be and
01:01:08
worried about it yeah I would love like a Subaru Outback style car or a sedan as
01:01:16
I am a city dweller and um unfortunately I don't think that's happening until the
01:01:22
third generation Outback wouldn't be that dissimilar I would I think well
01:01:28
yeah I think a for no forer even more so would be smaller version of this yeah which I could I'm Hing for sure I would
01:01:36
love that's what I want still a pretty good range still quiet yeah smooth lots
01:01:41
of storage I would like that I that's what I'm hoping for yeah yeah so the the way that um there was a leak about the
01:01:49
day that the event was going to happen that was very hilarious there was a town board meeting that happened in uh Santa
01:01:57
Monica I believe it was um so wherever they're having the event in Southern California Laguna Beach yeah Laguna
01:02:02
Beach oh right cuz they bought that movie theater down there and turned it into a rivan showroom really that's not
01:02:08
what happened but I mean that's not how they found out about the R2 platform oh
01:02:14
oh sorry were you just saying I no I was just saying that that's like where they do all their stuff yeah there's like
01:02:20
group spent a lot of summers in lagona Beach I know the area very well there's this movie theater that had been there since the 60s and everyone really loved
01:02:27
it and then rivan it had changed hands a few times rivian eventually bought it and they were like oh that's cool
01:02:32
they're going to like have a rivan branded movie theater and then they were like Psy it's a dealership damn but yeah
01:02:38
they they had a town like a city hall meeting and one of the things on the meeting list was that they had to
01:02:45
approve the R2 launch event because they're going to be parking some R2
01:02:50
vehicles on the grass and so they had this do doent That Just sh said like
01:02:56
rivan R2 launch event yeah and rivan had not said anything but the town hall
01:03:01
notes are public so fun it was really funny like funny way to get who found that leak cuz they were on it no yeah
01:03:09
never you never know who's maybe some random person who works for the town is going to be like wait R2 right someone
01:03:15
there probably likes rivan no no Laguna Beach is like when you're on the everyone there is very wealthy um and
01:03:23
everyone there loves eeve so it's it's the only place I've ever been where like
01:03:28
like I'd say like 60 to 75% of cars on the roads are electric there wow Jes and
01:03:35
and it's all the like the rare ones like the what's the brown one I like that no the Lucid yeah you see a lot of lucid
01:03:41
the brown one that was the best way of describing a lucid ever the Lucid that long brown that long brown one that I am
01:03:48
a fan of yeah it's not it's not Mustang Maki country it's like rivan and Tesla
01:03:54
time I'm in Southern California every other car is a Tesla generally a model y or model X yeah we get it you're from
01:04:01
Cali no there's L I'm not from Southern that's going to be prime R2 the East Side by
01:04:07
Nevada okay wait so speaking of Premium EVS there's two others we want to talk about yeah tyan or cybertruck t you can
01:04:15
go tyan tyan okay all right yes there's a tyan facelift yeah I'm really excited about this uh I can't afford it but I'm
01:04:23
really excited about it anyway so the tyan we already knew was Porsche's premium EV
01:04:28
sedan um start it's still expensive it's still going to start at like 106 Grand or something like that but it got a
01:04:33
facelift which has new more efficient higher mileage and faster models and
01:04:39
they charge way faster which is really impressive I mean if you find the charger that will support this exact
01:04:45
thing which they said they're like installing course they're always installing them they they always say
01:04:50
they're installing them but uh the details are there's a new the Bas tyan uh which now has a 79 K I think that's
01:04:57
the same size a 79 KW hour battery on the small end but there's a 93 KW hour option and there's now a 105 KW hour
01:05:04
option yeah and so you're getting now well over 300 estimated miles I think
01:05:09
the turbos s is 390 mil of range I believe is the number and also does 0 to
01:05:16
60 in 2.3 seconds and has up to 940 horsepower holy crap still dual motors
01:05:22
still a tyan still looks almost the same there's like one or two aerodynamic bits that's different but also the charging
01:05:27
curve for these new batteries thanks to new cooling is crazy high I think they get up to 320 Kow and they stay at 320
01:05:36
Kow for not just the first two seconds of charging but for a long duration of charging so we're seeing something like
01:05:42
uh 0 to 80% in 18 minutes and that's Z to 80 imagine you pull up with like 12%
01:05:50
you want to to charge up to 50% real quick that's like plug in go aack and you're good so that's exting that's like
01:05:58
that's the typ of innovation we hope to see with e again they don't build their own charging Network you're probably not going to get those speeds through an
01:06:03
adapter at a Tesla Supercharger that's just the realest the realest the realness the real are you rapping that's
01:06:11
just a real situation um but yeah no I'm I'm excited about the new Power trans new batteries can I say something about
01:06:17
this yeah all right if Apple put out a version of the iPhone that was called the iPhone solar and then it did have
01:06:25
solar panels on it but we're just like no it's just like a Vibe thing like it just sort of like felt like like a solar we would all be like that's a lie you're
01:06:31
a liar and I'm upset it would only be okay if they already had products in their lineup with the word solar in it
01:06:38
that had solar panels right that would make it even worse if they put out one called solar that didn't have solar I
01:06:44
see where you're going you know where I'm going I knowa where you're going why the heck are we all going to let them call an electric car a Turbo S do they
01:06:51
not already have a car cuz turbo in por lineup just means fast insane but turbo
01:06:57
for the longest time in Porsche language means the fastest one I'm going to make this a short point but I just want to
01:07:03
you know calling something that's naturally aspirated turbo is one thing calling something that is not aspirated
01:07:08
whatsoever a turbo is pretty well what does aspirated mean oxygen just an engine that yeah does not
01:07:16
have turbochargers that Force induction from a Turbocharger shoving air into it yeah got you okay so yeah turbo means
01:07:23
fast all right couple of really fun things about this car uh one it is finally going to have the more
01:07:28
integrated carplay which is they say is more integrated and more immersive so
01:07:34
actually seeing one of these is going to be awesome and I think it would be really great to get one in for review just to play with the car place
01:07:40
imagining just a Vision Pro just drops down like like the breathing things in a plane yeah um also there's going to have
01:07:47
an option to have this new push to pass button which for 10 seconds gives you a
01:07:54
six a 70 Kow boost so if you're passing someone on the highway it becomes much
01:07:59
easier to just be like you know what they could have done there to one make that sound cool push to pass button
01:08:05
boring turbo button then you can call it the turbo without having to worry about having an actual turbo is that the
01:08:12
better it should be they should have just like acronymed NS and then called it the NS but made it an
01:08:18
electrical they could have called it super vuk super the more I think about it and we were talking about this miles
01:08:24
the more I think it like this is clearly the Turbo S of this new refresh is the model S plaid competitor Yeah the more I
01:08:31
think about it the more I think this is going to stratify the Tesla people and
01:08:37
non- Tesla people because I think the Plaid is still going to beat this in a straight line 10 times out of 10 but on
01:08:44
a track obviously this will smoke it because it's a Porsche and it can handle and it's lighter and all this other
01:08:50
stuff and cooling for long laps will keep you at full power longer but I think full power on this in normal
01:08:56
everyday driving will be very similar to the last tyan turbos s which is really
01:09:02
fast yeah but the Plaid is this has this superpower where you can drive around
01:09:08
feather footed for a while in plaid mode and then you just decide you want to pass and you stomp it and you don't need
01:09:13
an extra button you don't need a different mode you just take off yeah and that I think was still going to be
01:09:19
true it's just a totally different product it's very handy for passing people it's super handy kind of annoying
01:09:24
that you have to press a button now to be able to use I think that's fun it is fun it's even more fun in a gas car I
01:09:30
will say because the the 911 Turbo S has this button oh you have a 911 turbo yeah it's great and it's called a sport
01:09:35
response button and you could be driving around moping around at like 2,000 RPM
01:09:41
and nothing exciting is happening and then you want to do a pass and you press the button and the engine just picks the
01:09:47
highest RPM with the most torque and suddenly you're basically driving an EV it would only be more fun if it had like
01:09:53
a PL PLC cover they had to flip open with your thumb and button sick that would be the best that would be very
01:09:58
Lambo though yeah yeah sorry go ahead I was just to say do you know what the takan has that the Plaid doesn't a
01:10:05
Turbocharger what a full steering wheel true that's actually not true oh the also has the ster full steering wheel
01:10:10
now wait it does yeah they ditch the Yol already for y now yeah yes the Plaid I
01:10:17
think less is more yeah the Plaid is going to be heavier it's going to have a large it has triple Motors it has a
01:10:24
slightly larger battery capacity and it's a Tesla so it's a different product also wait we don't know if this is NS
01:10:31
right we don't know which is something I was very very very interested in because
01:10:36
that changes a lot cuz the big new charging afford it but if I were to be able to afford it it would change a lot
01:10:43
of course I'm just thinking this new charging curve has got to be through certain Chargers and I wonder what those
01:10:48
Chargers are if they're things that the regular CCS yeah electri America has 350
01:10:54
Kow Chargers out there right now and they'll they'll give the car 350 Kow as long as it's asking for it but that's
01:11:00
not nacs so if I want to go do a road trip and I'm just using Tesla superchargers I think that's still an
01:11:05
adapter which I don't even know if you can get an adapter from Porsche a lot of questions unanswered still I would say
01:11:11
yeah quick question we were talking before about 0 to 80% in 18 minutes was there not like the the Kia and Hyundai
01:11:18
were getting pretty wild numbers on charging rates as well like not that far off from that if not the same so
01:11:24
percentage wise yes I think that's the crazy thing these are much bigger batteries that are getting 80% so like yeah I think the ionic even had like a
01:11:31
really great I specifically remember 18 minutes which it had a really high peak charging and it would it would spike up
01:11:37
350 Kow but in such a small battery 350 kilowatt will get you 80% pretty quick okay where I don't think you're getting
01:11:43
350 mil out of an ionic I think this 390 M range like that's really that's the
01:11:50
magic of it um it also has much better Rec does recuperation mean regenerative
01:11:57
charging okay so it says that it previously was 290 Kow and now it's 400
01:12:03
Kow that's so sick doesn't that seem like an insane amount of power it is I remember breaking in the Hummer e and
01:12:09
seeing like 150 kilow of that seems like a lot so that's Al that's all Porsche
01:12:14
engineering that's all electrical What Porsche does is when you hit the brake pedal in the car that's when it starts
01:12:21
the regen and it feels just like you're pressing the friction brakes it's very very good so you can't do one pedal
01:12:27
driving in a Porsche uh you can have a little bit of liftoff regen but I don't know if they have a a one pedal driving
01:12:33
mode that's annoying but what's fun cuz they want it to drive like a normal gas car like the rest of their cars but when
01:12:39
you when you get past the 200 or whatever kilowatts of regen braking on the brake pedal then it starts to blend
01:12:44
in the friction brakes as well so hearing that this will do 400 Kow I could probably slam on the brakes and
01:12:50
I'm I'm getting all that energy back which is awesome yeah that's pure I guess that is handy because um usually
01:12:56
when I like take off and have to slow down really fast the first thing that hits in my brain is oh man I'm wasting
01:13:01
my regenerative exactly exactly so I feel like you'll see the little dial while you're like you'll come on the
01:13:07
brakes really hard and you'll still see you're just getting all the energy back that's nice imagining you getting pulled
01:13:12
over and the cop's like sir you're really aggressively breaking a bunch you're like just regen
01:13:17
bro it is that yeah and I think uh I I want to know if this this will have one
01:13:23
pedal driving as well cuz that would be sick but that would be nice can we can we test something with these really good regen can we go to the top of a hill get
01:13:31
your battery level Coast all the way down the hill slam on the brakes at the
01:13:36
stop at the end and see if you have more power than you started with you should I
01:13:42
think if you literally slam on the brakes no but I think you can be heavy
01:13:47
on the brakes for a long time and be recuperating all of that energy there's a in San Francisco there's this um near
01:13:55
like mission mission Peaks or whatever super steep yeah there's like this super steep hill and well there's a lot of
01:14:01
super steep Stills in San Francisco but I remember seeing a post from someone in like a model y like a few months ago where they started at the top of there
01:14:08
with about 12% by the time they got to the bottom they had like 23% left we did that in the model 3 review oh really
01:14:14
okay never mind bad idea yeah no we drove well I mean it was a longer drive but we we drove the model 3 down out of
01:14:22
the uh I forgot the name of the Highway Pacific well some highway highway
01:14:27
Angels yeah and we ended up with like 10% more than we started with at the bottom of the hill so it's real it's
01:14:34
pretty cool regen is pretty useful all right last EV the biggest Cy it's the biggest EV as well the cybert Trek um
01:14:42
mostly because people have been out in the real world living with it and owning a non- clearco stainless steel truck for
01:14:50
a little while MH and it seems like it is actually prone to some small rust spots if you get like debris stuck to
01:14:57
your car for a while I guess I don't know exactly how it's working but I see
01:15:03
so it's very similar to if you have like a stainless steel grill that's outside even with a cover it is inevitably going
01:15:08
to get rust spots on it and I'm sure that this steel is better than the steel being made from those grills but it it's
01:15:15
very there's pictures out there which is also very funny because there's a lot of forums where this is out there and they're just like you're a liar this
01:15:20
isn't real like defending it to the te but stainless steel can still rust it
01:15:26
does not mean it is completely prone or like it is never going to rust it's going to rust less
01:15:33
but still can cause little rust spots that look terrible and you should be very careful cleaning it I guess or just
01:15:40
like the patina yeah I I don't know it just can't stain just can't is that exactly like
01:15:47
what it no I was trying to make a joke cuz you can stain stainless Ste Ste a l
01:15:52
be like well what is it good for there's a lot of people who said it's stainless not stain proof just like how it doesn't
01:16:00
stop the Rip but it's it stops the rip exactly exactly no it also fingerprints
01:16:05
a ton like we we got we had it for a day and there were a tons of fingerprints on it it's going to be an interesting
01:16:11
looking truck this is an alltime easy decision you should just wrap it Tesla should offer wraps like you should be
01:16:17
able to get a wrap they do offer a black one does Tesla I think so oh well this
01:16:23
is the physically easiest vehicle to wrap because it's flat and you could probably do it yourself for as as little
01:16:29
money as possible it's just going to be so much better looking I feel like once it gets dirty and tarnished though it's
01:16:35
going to look amazing possibly you have to get to the patina phase yeah it's going to look great at the very
01:16:40
beginning and like way after at the very end but like that whole middle part I wish we had one here to drive around and
01:16:47
just get like all the salt and all the crap on New Jersey roads like if you guys saw the rolls Ro video and you were mad at me for not cleaning it it that's
01:16:53
just what it looks like when you drive places in New Jersey in the winter so that on a cyber truck wouldn't look sick
01:17:00
maybe I feel like that would look sick maybe TBD there are none in New Jersey
01:17:05
so we'll have to find out yeah they have okay yeah they offer a color paint film for $66,000 in ceramic white or stealth
01:17:12
black oh I actually didn't know that six grand is a a little steep for just like isn't that usually what a WP cost yeah
01:17:18
but it's a solid color and it's from the factory and it's like the easiest car to you could get that done for Less yeah
01:17:24
true I think true anyway um okay well that's all we had for the wave form
01:17:30
section the white one looks kind of nice not going to lie that would get dirty faster though you're welcome I get dirty
01:17:36
if you thought the rough spots were bad and you want a white truck I have bad news for you not who gets a a wrapped
01:17:43
black cyber truck and it's like oh yeah stealthy no no one knows who I am there
01:17:50
was a great tweet I this might be the most delusional tweet I've ever seen but it's like you could pull up with a cyber
01:17:55
truck to the valet at a five-star hotel and it just wouldn't look weird it's the only truck you could do that with and I
01:18:01
was like what are you talking about when they say five star they mean like super
01:18:07
fancy like it's the only truck you could pull up to a valet service at a nice hotel and it wouldn't look out of place
01:18:13
if you pulled up to an insane asylum it would look weird there's nowhere that truck won agre with is that like it
01:18:21
looks expensive because it's so like bespoke and strange and so pulling up to
01:18:26
a nice hotel in an expensive bespoke strange car is more normal than pulling
01:18:31
up to a very fancy hotel in an F-150 yeah that's the only part of that
01:18:37
that the highest n F-150 is like a $100,000 yeah I do yeah I know what
01:18:45
David I agree with David but I don't want to agree with d yeah exactly I
01:18:50
reluctantly agree with David the look pretty fire PL that's a good also an
01:18:55
expensive fancy car yeah it just has to look somewhat unique right the Rolls-Royce cinin the Hummer EV so that would look
01:19:04
normal that would look imagine asking a valet driver to drive your Hummer EV into the parking garage tell you guys
01:19:10
the rivan valley driver in New York who like crashed your car no he said it though he said crashed it all right
01:19:16
we'll end with this I parked I I went to an Apple briefing for the Vision Pro a couple weeks ago and I drove into the City and I drove rivan and I almost
01:19:24
regretted it but I did find parking in this little valet parking lot and I parked there and I gave the guy the keys and he parked it and when I came back
01:19:30
from the briefing I saw another rivan an r1s and it was green and I said oh
01:19:36
another rivan he's like oh yeah I love these things man but dude these are the fastest reversing vehicles I have ever
01:19:42
driven I dude I crashed this thing reversing not that long ago it's crazy I was like
01:19:47
wow that didn't happen to mine right that's crazy man and then he's like Anyway here's your keys I like went over
01:19:53
and like inspected the crap out of my car anyway at least you R the test bed for it good times good times but I can
01:19:59
vouch it is a very fast reversing it is the fastest reversing car I've ever driven dang in case you wondering dang
01:20:06
R2 better also be fast reversing all right it's time for trivia trivia dude so quick update on
01:20:16
the score nothing nice everyone's got zilch
01:20:22
starting from scratch all right first question is that good what were the first five iPhone 5c colors and I need
01:20:29
all of the colors that were released for the 5c I'm going primaries I'm not like specifying what type of green it was
01:20:36
exactly I just want straight what was the color and you have to get all five
01:20:41
or you don't get the
01:20:47
point that's okay take your time and you don't look so confused I
01:20:52
feel like this one's a gimme it's not a gimme a what getting any five of
01:20:59
anything right perfectly is a lot five numbers do you have to do it in order uh
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zero one two four correct all right flip them and read o
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oh David what do you got I wrote Pink correct green correct blue correct
01:21:20
yellow yes orange no wrong Andrew well I know I'm wrong cuz I
01:21:25
don't have pink what do you have I could sworn there was an orange one I don't have pink you I also have orange oh so
01:21:32
then wrong Marquez let try it I said green yes yellow yes blue yes pink SL
01:21:38
flesh salmon sure white correct yes oh white was right I have white you but I
01:21:46
have orange orange right and not pink so it was pink and inste of orange and they
01:21:52
were allink tail yeah they were all like a there's a white one colors yeah there's a white one for the sea yeah all
01:21:58
right white is every color technically score update wait hey score update Marquez W yeah everybody else I'm
01:22:06
carrying the one by myself to be fair enjoy everyone else's score is in a super position between one
01:22:14
and three but I guess you're in a super position between two and between one and four four what why no they're between
01:22:21
zero you because you haven't answered the next question which is worth up to three points all
01:22:28
right question number two Samsung can be translated into three stars what do each
01:22:36
of those Stars stand for why would I know this I don't
01:22:43
know I can't believe a Samsung PR person hasn't mentioned this to you I was just going to say that also it's worth three
01:22:49
points so rack your brains one for each or three total for all one for each not doing the uh not
01:22:56
doing the difficult thing yet this early in the [Music]
01:23:04
season all right what do we got with this I mean this company's pretty old Oh no I got this wrong I'm so wrong they
01:23:11
definitely it's like Nintendo who was like a playing card company before they were a video game company they were in
01:23:16
the 19th century all right oh my god oh we went
01:23:21
kind of close red green and blue that would have been good um I wrote earth
01:23:28
water air dang it's actually fire fire
01:23:34
fire I wrote household mobile personal yeah I wrote computers life and
01:23:43
convenience sorry guys it is something big something numerous and something
01:23:49
powerful what what this question JIS what took get out at me I got I got
01:23:57
fooled by a fake survey and I had to think on the Fly can you can you explain this
01:24:03
no you know I can't explain I had to look this up 35 seconds ago so confused
01:24:09
so so we all learned something today and that is that I'm winning trivia right
01:24:15
now by one point that's correct Marquez Marquez is caring one that's
01:24:21
huge for me that's really going to set my weekend off on the right note I hope it sets everyone else's weekend off on the right note too thanks for watching
01:24:28
thanks for listening uh thanks for subscribing most of all and we'll catch you guys in the next one peace
01:24:35
bye wait for is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Ren we're partner with VOX media podcast Network and interat music
01:24:41
was created by vain Sil one take [Music]
01:24:51
one
01:24:57
[Music] Earth Wind Fire L Chase these were the three
01:25:05
elements Earth Wind and Lease earthwind fire as they chase
