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the only things I've seen is number one it was an AI model that costs like a tenth of what open AI models cost and
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just as good allegedly and then I heard that it was just trained on open AI stuff and it's not actually that
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impressive oh no they stole our stolen content what is up people of the internet welcome back to another episode of The W for podcast we're your hosts
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I'm Marquez and I'm David and that means that Andrew's not here Andrew's out this
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week Ellis is also out Adam's holding down the board Z sleeping in the corner like usual it's going to be a good time
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uh it's been a couple weeks so we do have a lot to talk about um we got an exclusive look at Samsung's project
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muhan headset a lot of interesting thoughts there we're going to touch on the new deep seek R1 model that's kind
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of all of the rage in the AI industry right now but also talk about Pebble sort of a A can I say Nostalgia about
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Pebble I think so at this point I feel like I can use that word uh we'll talk Pebble for a bit and also we're going to
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play another game of something or nothing at the end love it but first of all I'm going to give a shout out to a
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piece of content so nothing that's great great headline nothing nothing the company oh did a video on their YouTube channel that was almost too smooth um
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but the video was B so they basically emailed me a couple months ago and we're like hey we we're going to make a video
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on like what it would take to make your dream phone you know how you've had like a dream phone in the past where you just
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like frankensteined together a bunch of parts like just give us one of those and we'll make a video of it and I was like
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all right so I just threw together you know some specs and yeah it' be cool if you can combine these sent it off and
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then two months later they were like hey we made the video so I watched the video and it was pretty interesting basically
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it was them breaking down roughly what the costs are of a smartphone most interestingly the bill of materials itself in different components of a phone that go into actually building it
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so I'm sure you've heard before that like yes you buy a new phone and it costs $800 or something but that phone
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only cost $243 of materials and then everyone goes well they could have charged less or they could have you know here's all these other thoughts on on the difference between Bill materials and
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final retail price but I gave them some specs and this is what they came up with so go watch the video if you haven't
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already but I'll just give you some uh some Topline level spoiler alert stuff that I think is interesting and maybe
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you have a reaction to this stuff so I I told them a huge battery we round it up to 6,000 Mah hours 65 watt fast charging
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15 watt wireless charging they said $13 per battery your dream is 15 watt Wireless charg well I didn't specify actually I just gave them I said fast charging oh okay I my dream would
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be give me 100 wats aat 100 watts of both but uh $13 per battery okay which doesn't seem that terrible actually um I wanted a 6.1 in 120 HZ ltpo AMOLED 1440p
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6.1 in being on the small side but everything else be basically being like a high-end s24 Ultra level display M uh
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$35 per display okay that's more than I expected yeah I mean this I guess includes the glass and the panel itself digitizer all that that's fair 35 bucks
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um triple cameras we basically I just handed them like s24 Ultra roughly but also not really I I would like a further
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telephoto than the s24 ultra has but the idea is triple cameras on the back and uh pixel 9 front- facing camera mhm and
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$80 total for all the cameras okay $80 for the cameras that seems we got a bunch of sensors yeah a bunch of sensors and then all the glass and Optics and whatever has ois in there I seems crazy
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that it's that much higher than the display I always figured the display would be just as expensive as the
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cameras yeah I imagine the plastic actual lenses are not that expensive but you never know the sensors Sony has a monopoly on so what are you going to do that's fair yeah uh or does Samsung well
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no those are Samsung sensors they're Samsung some of their own sensors I forgot they're Samsung ISO cell sensors
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yeah so I mean I'm I'm not tied to those particular sensors but yeah roughly roughly 80 bucks uh the storage give me
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a terabyte of fast storage and 16 gigs of RAM $90 oh for that what yeah really yeah oh storage and the RAM storage and RAM okay $90 that still seems like a lot it does and you know whenever you go to
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upgrade I guess it makees sense whenever you go to upgrade a phone and you try to double the storage and you see like real
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price increments it's not like you have to pay $200 more dollars in bill of materials to increase the storage but it
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is a pretty significant cost in the phone yeah so that's interesting to see one terab on SSD is much cheaper than
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that it is true but you know it is it is fast so yeah it is a tiny little ufs 4.0
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SSD we'll go with it and then a Snapdragon 8 Elite so again they said they couldn't reveal their exact supplier costs totally fair or Qualcomm
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doesn't let them but they basically referenced that a typical high-end Flagship chip will cost about
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$190 wow for them and their volume levels dang so pretty pricey I actually have some more thoughts in my s24 Ultra review on the cost of the Snapdragon 8 Elite we'll get there okay um but yeah
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190 bucks for the chip and then some other small things a motherboard antenna Electronics haptics other small electronics miscellaneous $15 okay uh Packaging
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cable stickers box $30 wow that's a lot more than I thought uh design materials so if there's fancy stuff you want to do with the bat glass or any decoration or maybe some special paint or something
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like that $8 that would be why we see so many insane weird designs on the back of phon not that expensive you do Dragon
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Ball Z for $8 exactly yeah uh structural parts buttons mid-frame screws things like that Vapor chamber even $10 okay uh patent licensing software $29 okay per
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unit and then uh rough total bill of materials again this isn't the Allin cost to make the phone but the bill of
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actual physical materials $500 so that's for my like crazy super high-end dream phone idea $500 to build wow but then of course you have to add on R&D all the
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teams the employee costs and Licensing and things that actually at onetime engineering cost to make this bespoke
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motherboard work with this Ram work with this storage and then it breaks it down in deta the
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video but it might cost to5 million to devel a phone that was a very fny part of the video cuz they're like all in all
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should be about $500 um but R&D is about 20 million yeah okay so you got to sell a
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lot of these you do have to sell a lot of phones to sort of Break Even obviously um my favorite quote uh was
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they wrote as one of the costs purchasing products from competitors to understand the market better uh and they
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didn't give an exact cost for that but I thought that was interesting pric interesting it happens in a lot of Industries and I just kind of forgot
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that that's a thing you have to budget in like car companies just buy tons of other companies cars yeah and then drive
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them around and go huh I kind of like that definitely more expensive for car companies than smartphone manufacturers well in total cost but maybe per in
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development relative to the final cost of the product maybe it's reasonable you buy five or six cars to make a car you
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you buy five or six phones to make a phone yeah so yeah anyway go check out that video it's it's pretty interesting insightful I don't really see that sort
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of uh behind the curtain uh number Stuff very often from smartphone manufacturers
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so we'll check check that link in the description okay but anyway okay so I think the big interesting thing we got
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to try this week with the MKBHD video we put out project muhan Samsung's headset
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collaboration with Google and Android XR I thought it was very interesting yeah I have so many questions about this I have
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all the answers yeah so I tried to put as much as I officially know know in the video we don't know things like the
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exact release date or the exact price we don't know a couple final details on things like field of view and resolution I can just tell you like what I thought looking into the headset but most of what this experience was was me getting
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to try it and use Android XR and Gemini on a premium is Samsung built headset and yeah it looks a lot like a Vision Pro they they clearly were inspired by a lot of parts of Vision Pro but they did
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improve on some stuff like the the battery even though it is a battery tied to the side and in your back pocket uh
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it's a removable cable it's USB type-c you can pop on another battery which is pretty cool can you plug it into a wall
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socket you can okay cool well the the battery that comes with it had another USB port on it that you can plug into
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the wall so you can't put the cable directly into a oh um that's a good question that I didn't get an answer to
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I would imagine you can but that didn't get an official answer because it would be cool if you could plug it into like a laptop as well and then you have lower
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latency of some sort of screen expansion true that's a great Point yeah the cable's long enough to plug it into a laptop for sure I don't know about a wall but it's cool idea okay um yeah I
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mean they they made this headset a while ago they've been finalizing it it it's near final so what we saw and what I put in the video is probably basically what you're going to get when you eventually
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get to buy one of these things and they'll name it and it'll come out and it'll be a some unpacked event later
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this year probably I was just going to ask if this is the name they're going with it's probably not going to be called muhan yeah so muhan not Android
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XR oh Android XR the platform name yes Google that is the name of the software officially yes the muhan is a code name
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it means infinity and it's a code for this Infinite Canvas that you get to play with which is kind of cool uh but it's not the name of the product so we is reality really an infinite canvas uh
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technically yeah the universe is expanding Marquez it's an it's an infinite and expanding canvas so
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questions yes okay so something The Vision Pro does really well is that when you're looking through it the frame rate
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is high enough that it doesn't really feel like you're looking through a screen it kind of just feels like you're
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walking around and the the quality is a little bit worse than real life right how does that feel through this headset
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yeah okay couple Notes One the resolution of the display was pretty good I would say a notch below Vision
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Pro but it's pretty crisp okay the overall like pass through from the cameras was good enough it wasn't
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stunning or amazing Vision Pro is definitely better like when you look through Vision Pro and pass through you feel very close to like just looking
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through like some blurry glass or something this was uh yeah a notch below that for sure but they did something
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interesting which is they let you take off the bottom of the eye seal and that gives you this peripheral vision where
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light is coming in on the sides and the bottom and for some reason that made it feel
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better because you your brain sort of fills in the bezels around the display with the rest so like if I'm looking at a wall and I see through the middle the pass through and then my peripheral
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vision sees the outsides the wall right my brain kind of fills in the gaps kind of merges them in a way yeah which is interesting so I prefer using it without
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the light seal because of that but generally decent B+ pass through I would say okay yeah I have a question yeah so we actually just dropped today an apple Vision Pro bonus episode go watch that
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if you haven't but one thing that the developers were telling us is that Apple did a good job at making Swift easy to
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code in for iOS apps and when they released the new headset that you could just like kind of like know what you're
00:11:46
doing over there did they mention anything about that with the Android version are they going to like native coding yeah yeah so the details that I
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got from the team are number one all Play Store apps are compatible off the bat no extra code they will work just
00:12:00
like as a little window popup yeah yeah so I went to the Play Store I downloaded a regular phone app and you could just
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pull it up and use it like a normal phone app change ACC ratio scroll around it works um but there obviously would be
00:12:13
a benefit to having optimized apps so what they call spatial apps and a bunch of the built-in apps are optimized and
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apparently it's a few lines of code to update your app to be optimized for spatial and then you can go crazy
00:12:25
customizing and adding way more stuff but like the YouTube app for example was a spatial app uh it chose to curve the
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window a little bit it added these floating side panels for related videos and comments and then you could add a
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background for an environment that you're in and then watch YouTube videos and this like floating background on a
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mountain not as High Fidelity as apples just not as good-looking but cool feature so my understanding is that it will be pretty easy to make spatial apps
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but if you don't update your app at all it will still work on the headset do you think this is the reason that they
00:13:01
haven't made a YouTube app for Vision Pro because they want it to be exclusive to an Android XR headset I wouldn't be
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shocked I mean that's a pretty huge thing especially since they shut down the third party Juno player I my
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question is what's a better experience watching YouTube in the browser on Vision Pro or a built-in YouTube app on
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this muhan headset right because in Vision Pro Safari they have a special like Window mode for a video player now
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yeah so you can you can watch video full screen with a background kind of exactly the same way you do on the muhan headset
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it just won't be curved right but you can change the size make it huge make it further away closer to you it's similar
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yeah I mean generally I feel like a a player like an app is going to have better uux design as well than just the
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website in a window so it's second you have to move around the actual browser it's better on the Samsung headset
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better on Samsung headset yeah because I don't want to have to move around youtube.com right with my pinching and scrolling I hear you're saying so yeah
00:14:00
that's an interesting thought okay but I enjoyed that okay yeah um let's see other questions do they have any sort of
00:14:06
group stuff you could do uh no none of that was demoed no okay I would assume no honestly I I think it took Apple a while even to start building these like shared experiences and share play is
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like their magic sauce that like Works kind of cool with certain apps um I had no shared space experiences with like
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another person in a headset interacting with the same model me so no personas no
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person crazy personas that's a good question I didn't make any video calls so I don't know what that would look like to the person on the other side
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maybe they just haven't they just see your eyes really up close yeah yeah there was I mean I was in there playing
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with the headset for maybe two or three hours I didn't get to do everything video calls is not something I got to
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but I did play around with some stuff that's not in the video like just web browsing and poking around the stock
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apps and things like that throwing apps all everywhere honestly my biggest takeway was damn Gemini this might be
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the most useful thing I've done with Gemini just because you can interact with it with your voice it can actually poke into the UI of what you're doing
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and it seems like it can actually move into spatial apps and like use the UI for you inside of spatial apps but I
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could ask Gemini to clean up my windows and if I had six Windows it would line them all up next to next to each other
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that was great I could ask it to open an app and open Google Maps and and show me this thing and it would it do that for
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me if I was looking at something in pass through like a painting on a wall I could say who painted this and it would
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just pull up a web browser and Google something like who painted this so it was pretty like handsfree obviously it
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still has eye tracking it will still have controller support but the complete lack of having to do anything with my
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hands and just talk to the thing was oh interesting surprisingly nice that was something I notic for your video so you
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said that you basically just have to put it on do the eye alignment thing which takes like a second and it automatically
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does hand track yes hand tracking is automatic so you don't have to do the whole Vision Pro thing of like look that way look that
00:16:04
way look up look down put your hands ey tracking you do have to do the looking at the dots to to dial in eye tracking
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so by default eye tracking was actually off and I was doing everything with my hands and so I'd point my pinched
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fingers at the subject and and select things which is a lot of arm movement obviously in Vision Pro you straight
00:16:21
away set up eye tracking and you never really do that you can do essentially the same exact setup it's like looking
00:16:27
at a bunch of different dots around the screen and then it's all right all right we we can see your eyes now and then you can do the same sort of stuff does the
00:16:32
eye tracking feel as precise as on Vision Pro yes yeah yeah okay it's the same magical look at something it's
00:16:39
highlighted instantly move around uh the UI with your eyes and you can see like things like highlighting as you look at
00:16:45
them yeah it's pretty good okay so when Vision Pro came out it definitely felt like a very magical type of Technology
00:16:51
do you think that this feels like it's exactly caught up if the Vision Pro is an iPad Pro the project muhan headset is a Samsung
00:17:02
Galaxy Tab so if yeah yeah so if you if you love The Magic of this is a super thin piece of Hardware that is actually computer and is amazing that it can do all these things on a display you will
00:17:16
feel the same thing with the Galaxy Tab there are certain things that Apple does in their own ecosystem that are another
00:17:22
level of Magic on top of that whether it's share play or shared experiences or whatever apps that you're using that
00:17:29
will not quite be the same on the Google one but Google has Gemini Google has YouTube Google Apps built in it has that extra functionality to make up for maybe not being as magical right so it is very
00:17:43
functional there's no way it costs $3,500 I think this thing is going to be 2K tops right probably less right and I
00:17:49
think that's going to be a big reason people will consider it over a Vision Pro but yeah not not as magical I think
00:17:56
that's fair interesting I guess the relevant comparison could be like chat GPT to Gemini where because Google has
00:18:02
all of these Google apps that Gemini can tap into and it already has all your data it's more useful than just like a
00:18:08
platform c yeah in certain ways yeah it's and it's cool and I I still want to play around with it again and try things
00:18:14
like like searching inside of apps like I wonder if I could ask Gemini in the headset about an old email and I wonder
00:18:20
if it would go into the email app and like search through that and find it that would be amazing CU essentially it's just pulling up an instance of
00:18:26
Gemini live right which is conversational thing that's on your phone already so I imagine whatever that
00:18:31
can do this can do in the headset yeah and since it's multimodal I can take a picture on my phone and it can search
00:18:37
that well the headset it's running pass through all the time Gemini live can see that yeah and so I can just ask about
00:18:42
something I see yeah so there's a lot of potential I think and when you were talking to Google did they have like a
00:18:48
specific positioning for why this is useful to use because apple apple never really defined what it thought the Vision Pro was best suited for true and I feel it tried to figure that out after
00:19:00
it launched it it was like this is great for media consumption but also kind of work and as they have updated Vision Pro
00:19:07
they've updated the categories that they found people were using it for more but it still isn't that defined and I feel
00:19:13
like that's part of the reason it is not doing well did Google have like a we want people to use this for work we want
00:19:19
people to do this like do they have a positioning for this thing it was mostly centered around Gemini I think if you
00:19:26
asked them they would mostly tell you like this is the best way to use Gemini you could use it on your phone you could use it on your tablet or you could just use it on a pair of glasses or a headset that you're wearing all the time and
00:19:37
it's always able to talk to you so I think their pitch would be it's the best way to use Gemini and
00:19:43
that's it reminds me of your uh AI pin part like the part of the video where you asked the AI pin to name the car and then you just pull out your s24 Ultra and it does it faster I think I think
00:19:56
there's some instances where this is is the best way to use Gemini where you're I in a in a world where you're walking
00:20:03
outside with this headset on and a car passes in front of you you literally look at the headset and go what car you just look at the car and go what kind of
00:20:09
car is that and Gemini can see the car you're looking at and can tell you right away I had a clip in the video where I
00:20:15
just hold I held up a book yeah and the book had a picture and the bottom it said like the name of the art the name
00:20:22
of the photo and where it was taken and all I did was pull up the picture look at it and go can you take me there and
00:20:29
it it understood that context understood that it was a location opened Google Maps searched that location and then
00:20:35
took me to that location Google cool so if it's able to do that sort of parsing and understanding and Carry Out actions into apps on my behalf I think that's
00:20:47
the pitch that would be cool I would like to see what the limits of that are outside of a contained space totally
00:20:54
also yeah uh do they have any sort of like workspace EXP expansion stuff where they can expand your laptop screen or anything like that did not hear about that didn't hear about that interesting
00:21:04
I would be curious what happens if there's any screen mirroring or if I plug into a laptop what happens cuz I didn't get to do that either I want to
00:21:11
see their first ad for this device because I need to know what they're trying to tell people to buy it for
00:21:17
that's a great point the ads say a lot about their what they imagine people use it for I did get to uh connect a
00:21:25
Bluetooth mouse and keyboard okay and there wasn't like a computer all so it was just me using the mouse and keyboard
00:21:30
to move around Android XR apps which is cool but uh yeah the you know quickly going from like pinching something and then typing on a keyboard and then a mouse all of that was it was very fluid
00:21:41
interesting but yeah I'm curious about that first ad too interesting yeah huh okay I got two questions yeah one were
00:21:48
you able to look at a bright thing and then back at a not so bright thing yeah good question so like you said this was
00:21:56
a very controlled environment and in the interest of getting as many shots for our video as possible we basically
00:22:03
stayed in this evenly well-lit room yeah there was a display in the room I could
00:22:08
look at it and I could look around very quickly and that seemed very fluid but I didn't really I don't have any memory or
00:22:13
footage of like looking at a super bright light and then something dark so I don't know if it would handle it the same way as Vision Pro I kind of imagine
00:22:19
it will though yeah just kind of trying to balance out exposure quickly and hopefully not Peak yeah okay next
00:22:25
question do you think that this is like from from what you experienced and going back to what their first ad is going to
00:22:31
be is this basically just a dev kit again just like how the Apple Vision Pro was yeah it's basically a dev kit I
00:22:38
think that's accurate honestly right now they are using this this headset as a dev kit and that's the that's where
00:22:43
you'll see it right now before it's shipped but yeah it feels like okay Vision Pro is out Quest 3 is out there
00:22:50
are headsets that are out in the world and if we want any sort of advantage or if we want people to use our platform we need people to develop for it we need to
00:22:57
get something out in their hand this is the first headset that has Android XR take it away developers make
00:23:03
awesome stuff and then hopefully that leads them to making magical amazing apps that want to use it like The Vision Pro problem still applies when it's Android yeah so I just really need to
00:23:16
know but it applies but it applies at half the price probably probably hopefully less maybe maybe less because
00:23:23
even at 1750 this thing is way over but for a cheaper AR VR experience you get the meta The Meta Quest yeah all the way down to three 350 300 bucks yeah yeah
00:23:34
plus if you can't plug this into a computer like I'm sure you'll be able to like mirror your Chrome tab or something
00:23:40
you know cuz right now the quest can already have your just your computer display yeah I feel like you need to
00:23:46
have that feature in this headset but also if you're going to call if you're going to charge more than the quest then you have to be able to do more than the
00:23:51
quests and the quest has a huge library of games that's like what they're really good at right now and obviously the work
00:23:57
aspect is is okay you can computer mirror I would imagine that this kind of gets positioned as yes you can work in it but also you're you're just going to get so much done with Gemini all the
00:24:09
time it's going to be the Super useful thing that helps you all you're going to want to walk around the office and write emails while your hands are in your
00:24:15
pockets yeah but the problem is this thing is so big just like the Apple Vision Pro like how long until this is in a pair of Ray bands like if they're
00:24:22
just going to put Gemini in glasses you know okay right great point and I think this would be probably the last big point for this okay Android XR as a platform can be in a bunch of different
00:24:34
form factors so in this video I said that project muhan think of it as like the pixel or the Nexus or whatever of
00:24:42
this platform meaning that it's an example for a version of the hardware you can put it on yeah but there will be from other manufacturers higher end versions lower-end versions different
00:24:53
form factors we were I think maybe having a conversation about PCS maybe was this last week on the podcast but
00:24:59
like desktop computers are still a big thing that you put on your desk and people will buy higher end components or low run components but they'll just run windows again at the end of the day
00:25:10
right and so Android XR will run on smart glasses too uh but if it's on smart glasses you will have less total functionality you can't watch a movie on them you can't uh see the Gemini UI as
00:25:24
easily it'll just be text based instead of like this whole animation thing so there are pros and cons to different
00:25:29
form factors but the idea is they're introducing Android XR and then hopefully the hardware ecosystem blooms
00:25:35
and the developer ecosystem blooms and everything's blossoming at the same time so more of instead of trying to crash
00:25:42
the VR and the uh smart glasses into each other you're just saying we're just going to run on on all the types of platforms yeah all the types of headsets exactly yeah Android XR is the base
00:25:56
software layer for all of the future AR VR XR experiences that will come in the form of headsets glasses Etc from Google interesting yeah okay so I'm very
00:26:08
interested in where this goes and how they position it and all this stuff I did hear that they were uh planning to
00:26:14
release it in 2025 though yep they wouldn't stop telling us that they couldn't stop every time we asked about
00:26:19
it we're like so this year and then Andrew would ask so actually this year and then they go yeah yeah yeah yeah a
00:26:25
couple months yeah so they're I think you should have where the Galaxy home is and I feel more comfortable I know yeah every every company's got an air power that makes us true literally every
00:26:37
company has has announced something where we go can we trust them anymore are they going to make even if they have a track record you're like but you
00:26:43
didn't ship that one things now I don't know that's true so interesting yeah Samsung we'll see 2025 allegedly okay
00:26:50
and nothing about price nothing nothing about price cool cool cool cool cool cool all the price all of my estimates
00:26:56
would come from like if I was betting like we we could probably estimate in an educated way like I I looked at that
00:27:03
display and the field of view and the materials and the battery and I don't know the Bild of materials but I imagine
00:27:10
it from Samsung they would position this in a in a way that they could undercut Vision Pro yeah but still be looked at
00:27:18
as premium let's take a market that has very few people in it and make it even smaller well Quest is popular that's true but for gaming right like you know
00:27:30
what that's for nobody knows what these other things are for yeah well hopefully so that's the I did play one game
00:27:36
briefly and I don't even remember it was one it was I'm going to such an idiot I forgot the name of this game it was like
00:27:42
a flat game with like a bunch it was a house cross-section with a bunch of Flappy Bird oh was it fallout shelter
00:27:49
yes that and I played that for 30 seconds and I was like wow it works with my hand control that's crazy or I could
00:27:54
have a mouse and it did it feel intuitive at all I don't know how to play that game so couldn't answer that
00:27:59
but yes I mean I zoomed in and I clicked things and I held things down and I moved them around so yeah I think it was
00:28:05
pretty intuitive decided to play mobile games on a thing I have to wear on my face I mean there's going to be games that don't work at all yeah like I don't
00:28:12
I imagine like Need for Speed game is not going to it probably just be in a window right you got to have controllers at that point yeah I think you need
00:28:18
controllers right so is this built on Daydream or is this just a brand new situation we don't talk about that I
00:28:24
don't think Daydream I don't think Google even remembers what that is do you remember remember cardboard yeah
00:28:30
under my seat cardboard was fire cardboard was a great idea just put your phone right on your face uh I'm going to
00:28:37
guess when this Samsung headset comes out it's going to retail for nope more no I was going to say $1599 or 16.99 I'm guessing like $6.99 all the
00:28:51
way to $66.99 I think it'll be more than Quest but it'll be way cheaper than Vision Pro wait $6.99 7 .99 799 yeah not
00:29:01
1,799 I'm going with yeah 15.99 ooh okay think about like an s24 ultra is already $12.99 yeah but everyone knows what to do with an s24 ultra that's my thing like in order to
00:29:15
get people to buy a thing like people buy the quest even though they're not totally sure what they're going to do with it because it's 500 bucks and like
00:29:22
two games they know they want to play and on during Christmas it's 350 they want to play Beat saber it's it's it's a
00:29:28
Splurge Moment The Vision Pro is almost never a Splurge moment yeah yeah I just I I think it's
00:29:37
all about positioning from Samsung totally like in the way that they position their phones against other phones they have to do they even
00:29:43
position their phones well they they call this we know you're going to buy it like they have the s25 and the and the plus and then the ultra which has to be
00:29:50
more because it's bigger and but it's not that much better but it's it has to be more expensive so it's $112.99 yeah
00:29:56
that's because they know that that market of people that will just get the best thing no matter what right and I think they'll see other headsets come
00:30:03
out after this and then this one is the premium one in that world there will be $700 headsets that run Android XR but I
00:30:10
think yeah I think they're going to look a little different from this one and I think the one that looks like Vision Pro
00:30:16
yeah I think they're aiming it at people who might have thought about buying Vision Pro somebody who
00:30:23
$3,000 you got to make your comeback we're going to get those cheaper headsets but I think they're going to go right up well past a th000 so that's why
00:30:29
I'm going $5.99 16 for some reason 1647 is in my head but that's not a real price let's go $15.99 is my official guess I guess I haven't I haven't touched it so I don't know how the
00:30:41
hardware quality is there's glass on the outside the the frame is metal it's not plastic remember Quest is just plastic
00:30:46
yeah and I think this has metal it had fans it had that Snapdragon chip inside had fans no I didn't hear them okay but
00:30:54
it had fans it had like machine nice machined buttons it had that ated cable for the battery like it was definitely
00:31:00
supposed to yeah so did look like a Vision Pro when you had the top shot of it like above like on your head but above and it has the same freaking button as V Pro looks I said in the
00:31:12
video and people got mad cuz I compared to Vision Pro so much but I was like it's not a digital Crown here it's a button and they're like why you keep
00:31:19
using Vision Pro as a reference because Samsung did that's why because it looks like a Vision Pro yeah and it's also the
00:31:25
one that like a lot of people have seen that video has 30 million views or something like people have seen Vision Pro so this is this is the reference
00:31:32
this is the Android version of the thing you've already seen this is we've got Vision Pro at home there you go for
00:31:38
people that want to buy it for their kids you have do you want to make an official price guess $9.99 okay
00:31:44
1.99 $9.99 oh I feel like it's going to be more now it's really I'm telling you I'm giving you a chance $1.99 okay final answers lock them in now we should do trivia
00:31:55
okay okay 12.99 trivia dude so David CA and Damian enri were two French Google Engineers with their very with their 20%
00:32:10
Innovation time off they made something that was introduced at google.io 2014 developers
00:32:16
Conference 2014 in fact everyone that attended walked away with it what was it I have an idea I was there I think I went to that
00:32:27
I think you did too what was the thing 11 years ago I should know this when we were not old when we were Rel Lads when we will be Lads all right well we'll think about this one answers will be at
00:32:39
the end like usual we'll be right [Music] back support for waveform comes from Life 360 so we'll be the first to tell you that not every everything goes to
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00:34:18
codewave all right welcome back we've we've got to talk about this deep seek thing yeah now here's my relationship with the Deep seek headlines okay I was was working on the project muhan video
00:34:30
okay and trying to distill all of my thoughts on this headset that I just tried and like over a flight back and
00:34:35
like writing it and and carving out all the footage and color correcting and editing and animating and all that blah blah blah and when I uploaded it deep
00:34:43
seek had already gone through an entire news cycle yeah of it coming out being at the Talk of the Town and then suddenly is maybe not so hot it's still in the new cycle it's definitely still in New cycle a lot I need you to explain
00:34:55
what I missed okay yes okay so it turns out we all missed this actually because the original big deep
00:35:02
seek news well part of the big deep seek news happened on Christmas day so clearly a lot of us were going to miss
00:35:08
this oh wow okay that's my fault for not really digging into the forums on the on Christmas day on Christmas Day for the
00:35:15
groundbreaking AI reports yeah actually the only things I've seen is number one it was an AI model that cost like a
00:35:22
tenth of what open a eyes models cost and just as good allegedly and then I heard that it was trained on open AI
00:35:28
stuff and it's not actually that impressive oh no they stole our stolen content so that's my entire familiarity
00:35:35
all right uh yeah high level overview this is a AI language model similar to open AI GPT uh yes it is it's specifically a language model they also
00:35:46
introduced an image model but the language model is the thing that people are mostly talking about yeah so on
00:35:52
Christmas Day this company called Deep seek that is this Chinese AI company released this model called deep seek V3
00:35:59
V3 is a foundation model came out on Christmas uh no one really talked about it that much because it was Christmas um
00:36:07
the thing that is causing a lot of stir in the community is that it performs really well it performs very similarly
00:36:14
to things like GPT 4 and like one of claud's best models stuff like that but the probably the biggest thing that caused the stock market to Start Tumbling and all of these things to happen is that reportedly it only cost
00:36:28
$5.6 million to train I think the headline I'm remembering now is that Nvidia lost like 600 billion dollars of
00:36:36
Revenue market cap cost they lost half a trillion in of market cap in one day which is a whole Stargate so because of
00:36:43
these headlines about deep seek yes wow so if you sort of extrapolate the fact that this cost $5.6 million most of these AI companies basically are trying
00:36:53
to create these Gates not Gates they're trying to create the walls on who can compete with them by
00:37:00
saying oh it cost1 million to train a foundation model so only these giant companies like Google and open Ai and I guess Claude uh can train their own
00:37:12
models to be competitive and meta you know so it's it's semiopen Source it's like open weights so they released this
00:37:20
really big paper about how they trained it and the paper basically discloses all of these different methodologies that
00:37:26
they use that basically take similar methodologies to what the big companies use but they take the most uh efficient approach possible right I think a lot of the companies like open Ai and meta and
00:37:38
Google their big thing has been oh we're just going to throw more compute at it because for a while these AI models
00:37:45
scaled with the amount of compute that they threw at it yep eventually they started kind of slowing down and now
00:37:51
they're trying to figure out different ways to make them more effective like for example open ai's 01 model is like
00:37:57
this reasoning model that takes multi-steps uh it does multi-step reasoning to Think Through problems
00:38:03
which has a higher level of accuracy for actually solving complex problems but uh things like that 01
00:38:10
model are in open ai's $200 a month tier so they have all these insane Gates Right that stops stop people from uh actually using them or competing and I think I saw them saying something about
00:38:22
how the usage of that tier was so high that they were still losing money per user yeah which is crazy how expensive
00:38:30
this stuff is supposed to be so so some of the efficiency things that deep seek did to make this a lot cheaper is they
00:38:37
use techniques like this technique called mixture of experts and what that is is basically if you have a giant
00:38:43
model right like for example this V3 model has 671 billion parameters you can basically
00:38:50
say okay well I'm going to take 37 billion of these parameters and specify it towards things like code right cuz
00:38:57
when you feed a model a ton of data you've got a ton of coding data you've got a ton of just natural language G data you've got a ton of data about different topics so it's not actually
00:39:08
efficient to do this like next word processing thing if you have to run through the entire model and find the
00:39:13
next token it's more efficient to say oh I've got an expert on coding in the model here so that let's only run a parameter of 37 billion instead of 671
00:39:23
billion okay sure and that's both more efficient and more effective so it can be cheaper it can be faster and it can
00:39:30
be just as maybe even more accurate right and it's also yeah it could could be more accurate um and it can also be
00:39:36
much cheaper to inference so if you're actually the the end user using it it costs less per token because it doesn't
00:39:43
have to you know go through the entire model to find what you're looking for yeah okay so this V3 model was already a
00:39:49
big deal because of how cheap it was um but the thing that's causing the bigger stir is just last week they announced a
00:39:56
new model called R1 not of rabbit R1 Fame prove it can't prove it cannot prove it okay but R1 is a reasoning model similar to open ai's oan model
00:40:09
okay and it does thing it does the same multi-step reasoning that the oan model does but it does it out in the open which is very interesting so the difference is when you ask 01 a question
00:40:21
it'll say thinking thinking thinking thinking and it just kind of gives you the answer yeah y that's what I do
00:40:28
usually whereas the interesting thing about this R1 model is when you ask it a question say like you give it some
00:40:34
complex question like oh there are four blocks on top of each other one is green and it's in the middle one is red and
00:40:40
it's here if I were to move the green block on top can you tell me the order of the blocks this is an example from
00:40:46
the computer file YouTube channel that I just ripped off um now nor normally it would get those things wrong because it's like very difficult to you know take all that information and understand
00:40:56
the physics and all that stuff but in a reasoning model it's similar to a human being who writes down the problem and
00:41:02
you have to work it out right because you can't just instantaneously come up with that answer and so it will step by
00:41:09
step tell you okay so theoretically if you were to move that block to the top then now the Blue Block is below the red
00:41:16
block which means that blah blah blah blah blah blah and open I used to hide all of that compute but R1 shows it step
00:41:25
by step which is very interesting for a lot of people because now it shows you how these models are actually working
00:41:30
yeah which is really crazy that's I kind of like that yes cuz it's not like sourcing it necessarily but it's kind of
00:41:37
interesting to see it and maybe catch a mistake in the process as it happens that's cool right huh the other thing
00:41:44
that is interesting about the way that they trained this is that generally the way that you train a lot of these AI models with complex problems is you
00:41:52
would tell it the question you would tell it all of the steps in between working out the answer and then you
00:41:57
would tell it the answer and that would be the data that you feed into the model so you're just feeding like all of these
00:42:03
worked out questions into a model which is a lot more data and it's also not really learning how to do learning in
00:42:10
the broader sense of the word how to actually work out the reasoning for these questions it's just kind of
00:42:15
mapping here's the question here's the reasoning here's the answer and so it's less likely to get those things correct
00:42:21
takes a lot more data Etc this time they're basically just giving it the question and they're giving it the answer and they're basically saying you get a cookie if you get it right and you
00:42:33
don't get a cookie if you get it wrong okay and so now they're sort of training the model to instead of just mapping the
00:42:41
question to the the workout to the answer they're actually kind of training it to actually do that reasoning itself and that is way cheaper to do as well so
00:42:53
yeah the the thing that is crazy about all of this is because it is so much cheaper and they did it also on a bunch
00:42:59
of Nvidia h800 gpus which are the older less fast gpus that they were able to buy before the export ban because currently um under the Biden Administration you are not allow Nvidia
00:43:11
cannot sell h100s to China yeah because we want to be the you know in America they want to be the fastest most
00:43:17
browniest you know whatever yeah so they're saying oh we did this on h800 gpus we did it on like 10 to 50 times
00:43:26
less gpus use it only took two months to train instead of 3 months that it took to train the open AI model and the open AI model also had way faster gpus so
00:43:37
suddenly in order of magnitude less gpus 50 50x less gpus you can use nvidia's like ah maybe people aren't going to buy as many of these anymore I see that's
00:43:49
that's why I related to Nvidia so okay so deep seek it sounds like it's it's a genuinely Innovative yes and useful much
00:43:58
more efficient much less expensive both to use and to build model sounds like this is like the Le Mega of language models people are considering this a
00:44:11
Sputnik kind of moment sure if by people you mean Mark Andre and well no more more than just Mark Andre in that it's like a a a new innovation that's not from the US in that we kind of like yeah
00:44:23
a lot of us companies have been like we're the only ones in town and then out of nowhere someone releases something
00:44:29
that's Tech like better in some circumstances and so it freaks everybody out MH so what happens you take this
00:44:36
efficient model and put it on Google servers that are running like 100,000 Nvidia gpus like what it just be that
00:44:43
much better so there is there is this uh this Paradox that I canot remember the name of that people bring up a lot in
00:44:50
regards to this where if you can run something more efficiently and cheaper more people are going to want to use it
00:44:57
so it scales with with the efficiency so it's like yeah if you have more servers
00:45:03
you're still going to use those servers so you know it'll be cheaper to run I've heard the same but more people are going
00:45:08
to use it yeah there's some Paradox around it and that you just like fill the demand with their savings yeah right
00:45:14
the other thing is that theoretically now you could run this on like a 4090 or something you don't need like these
00:45:20
super computers anymore to be able to run these models and so if you're like a university and you've got a small
00:45:26
cluster but it's not like an open AI size cluster you could run a local version of this that's tailored to
00:45:32
specific tasks locally on your servers and then you don't have to pay open AI anymore right so this is the other thing
00:45:38
because the the weights are open and people are trying to like re-engineer it and it's free to use and free the
00:45:44
research paper is out there it's uh it's kind of open sourcing this thing that these few companies have kept closed for a long time because they want to maintain this like monopolistic kind of
00:45:56
leadership F wow yeah okay so that's the that's the first half of the news cycle
00:46:01
I can see the the reason for the hype and like all of the the stock movement and stock prices and all the headlines and everything that but then there was like another half of it where it sort of
00:46:12
cooled off or at least started getting broken down and exposed more for what is actually happening is that also yeah I mean people are finding technicalities like so they said that the last run that
00:46:25
actually trained the model is the thing that cost five uh 5.6 billion or yeah billion dollars million yeah million 5.6 million instead of from zero yeah
00:46:37
instead of from scratch like all the R&D hours all the other compute all the data collection obviously that costs a lot
00:46:44
more money so it's kind of like the same thing as your bill of materials thing right it's like what did this actually
00:46:49
cost fullon they haven't released that so it's a little bit different has anyone asked Carl pay
00:46:56
break it down yeah um other thing that I think is very funny is they're basically saying that they are pretty there's this
00:47:03
other thing that you can do when you're training models called distillation where you basically take your model and
00:47:09
you take you take outputs from a good model and you use that as training data for a new model and they're thinking a lot of people are thinking right now that they used outputs from like GPT 40
00:47:21
as data to train this model because you can get you can create a much smaller model with better data and if the good data is in the outputs from another AI
00:47:33
model then you can do that and so a lot of people are freaking out but also a lot of data exactly nice so a lot of
00:47:38
people are freaking out because they're like oh my God they might have stolen open ai's outputs but it's like
00:47:46
boohoo yeah I guess that makes sense because at first when you were saying that I was like okay so we're just
00:47:51
making another gp4 it's like what's the point but it is still cheaper and in more efficient to run and all those benefits so even if it's giving you the same outputs as GPT 4 it could have
00:48:04
advantages so I guess I get it way cheaper to run way cheaper to train you could train like a a local version you
00:48:10
could use your own local version um Chain of Thought reasoning is really cool yeah yeah just a lot of things that
00:48:16
I think a lot of people were not expecting um and then it also made it seem like okay maybe we don't actually
00:48:22
need these super computer clusters the size of Manhattan to be able to run these things also the nuclear the entire
00:48:28
nuclear um industry kind of crashed on this too because people were investing in a lot of nuclear companies because they were thinking we're going to scale up AI clusters so much we're going to
00:48:40
need nuclear power to run this and now they're like actually you need 50 times less gpus than you thought that's really
00:48:46
funny and so now the nuclear industry is like uh oh that's really funny I mean in
00:48:52
a I I am not the expert on this but in a like far enough future that I'm visioning envisioning of like people
00:48:59
using AI all the time you have to be able to do it more efficiently like efficiency has to be one of the focuses
00:49:05
we can't just keep scaling up to just bajillions of gpus everywhere and blasting through I mean that's how what
00:49:10
we've been doing that's what Nvidia we have been doing and if you follow the graph of Nvidia stock price you can see
00:49:16
how we've done that exactly um but it seems like yeah efficiency also has to eventually be a focus in in some of
00:49:21
these so I'm glad that it's at least started to highlight that I think in most most Industries and markets when
00:49:28
more people have access to innovating on a thing you get so much Innovation that the efficiency and the value proposition
00:49:35
just go up like exponentially but this Market is so closed like you only have open AI
00:49:41
Google not even really Apple you know Claude and meta yeah that's that's sort of it there's a bunch of small AI companies that have spun up but they're all basically using open AI as their like foundation so yeah um I think this
00:49:56
just kind of shows that open source is going to cause a lot of commotion fun yeah pretty big deal I'm here for it
00:50:02
pretty big deal uh also apparently if you use the uh there is now a de there is a deep seek app that you can have that is now the number one app on the App Store sick that was fast uh it will
00:50:15
apparently not talk about tianan Square oh because it's it's still a Chinese app yeah so is it going to get banned that's
00:50:22
so many things that are unanswered about this I would not doubt it uh if that got banned so yeah if you run it locally it
00:50:30
will tell you whatever you want if you run it through the app which is kind of going through the Chinese filtration
00:50:36
systems it will not tell you whatever you want I just want to go sign up and it says due to large scale malicious attacks on our servers registration may
00:50:43
be busy please wait and try again yeah they were basically saying they got dsed yeah everybody's probably they have a
00:50:48
kind of a magnifying glass on them right now so that doesn't really shock me but yeah okay yeah things are happening so
00:50:55
that was a big deal um Nvidia stock price has since kind of gone a little bit back up there have been many think
00:51:00
pieces about well it costs 5.3 million to train but what about all the other money and what about this and oh if
00:51:06
they're using distillation of open AI data then the actual true cost is blah blah blah and it's like okay I feel like that's a lot of hand waving personally um I don't know I think it just shows
00:51:17
that if you make something open way more Innovation can happen and also we're not
00:51:23
the only ones in the AI race all right uh Pebble do you know this name PEB the word pebble and it's not not the social media Network Pebble brings me back because I pebble's the first Smartwatch
00:51:36
I ever had technically it was before Moto 360 I had like a red Pebble I definitely did a video on the thing too a red Pebble with a black band and all it was was an eink display on my wrist
00:51:48
with notifications yeah I didn't really wanted to do too much else it was just so I could have less screen time I could
00:51:53
just check my wrist and be like oh I can see what time it is and then I just got a text and I'm not even going to read it and there it is yeah that's my Pebble
00:52:00
experience yeah Tot so Pebble was one of the most successful kickstarters of all time at the time it was the most at the
00:52:07
time I think it was the most yeah and then but they eventually went out of business right yeah okay so they raised
00:52:13
a ton of money they raised $10 million at their first launch when they expected to raise $100,000 they came really popular with
00:52:20
Nerds they released a bunch of new Pebbles throughout the years they lasted about four years um and then eventually
00:52:27
Fitbit bot Pebble Fitbit bot Pebble Fitbit bot Pebble and they shut down and uh they shut down the development of the pebble 2 and the pebble time 2 and then they refunded everybody it was a old
00:52:38
thing and then if you remember Google bought Fitbit oh right so there's just been a bunch of like distillation of the IP of pebble and not a lot of people
00:52:48
have used eaper display sense Pebble so that's something we didn't mention it is a smartwatch but it is an epaper display
00:52:56
smartwatch part of the kind of sell of pebbl is that it lasted seven days it did very basic stuff it was very nerdy it was a very open ecosystem you could develop for it it was this awesome
00:53:08
Community you could see it in sunlight you could see it in sunlight tiny three pin charger it was it was pretty solid I
00:53:14
remember that now the battery life being so long yeah now something you might not know is the founder of pebble is Eric
00:53:19
majovski which is the same guy that made beeper that we talked about oh w a number of months ago World beeper was that app that basically hooked into iMessage and kind of temporarily
00:53:31
disrupted Apple until that they shut it down um and I was completely wrong about whether or not that would last but you
00:53:38
know here we are so Eric has been apparently rallying Google for a while now to open source Pebble because they have not been doing anything with it yeah seems like Google forgot I bet
00:53:50
Google bought Fitbit and forgot that they had Pebble stuff in there yeah I think they also forgot they bought
00:53:56
Fitbit but you know yeah so yeah he's um he basically was able to Rally Google to
00:54:02
open source all of the pebble stuff and because of this he's bringing Pebble back and E in/ eaper has gotten a lot
00:54:09
better since 2012 2014 so bringing Pebble back could be kind of neat like I don't know I'm I'm still picturing the same general premise which is a smart
00:54:22
watch type device on my wrist with an eink display a weak Plus Battery life yeah and like a decently fast enough
00:54:29
refresh that I can get notifications I can swipe them away maybe I can you know control media on my wrist or something like that like basic stuff like that I think that would still be pretty cool yeah yeah I think that SmartWatches
00:54:40
generally are very overpowered for what a lot of people use them for anyway yeah and just like on a lot of smartphones
00:54:46
people would trade battery life for functionality a lot of the time I would love that so Eric is basically starting
00:54:52
a new company that is going to use the pebble OS um um but he cannot call the company Pebble because Google still ends the trademark of course uh so he basically put out this this website with
00:55:03
a sign up form where you can sign up to get updates on when new Pebble stuff is coming out okay so they probably they
00:55:10
won't call it Pebble but they'll probably have I'm predicting now some really punny ripoff name from Pebble
00:55:16
that reminds everyone that Pebble existed yeah I believe the the website is called rep Peeble there you go so
00:55:23
there you go you know okay I got on a call with it Eric a couple of days ago to talk about this just to kind of do
00:55:29
some Q&A M um you will be able to build on top of the new Hardware's software because pebble's going to be open sourced and everything that the new company Builds on top of on top of the software they're putting back into the
00:55:40
open source project yeah which is cool which means you can build your own Hardware basically and like flash it to
00:55:46
it that is pretty cool yeah so this is kind of like an open source device um they are going to build new hardware so
00:55:51
I would love to see what that looks like in 2025 because like you said the technolog has gotten much better I want
00:55:57
a pebble in the shape of a Moto 360 yeah without the flat tire without the flat tire well they had the they had the
00:56:04
pebble round they had the pebble round and it was basically in the shape of Moto 360 the uh bigger please bigger
00:56:10
screen bigger screen bigger screen okay other cool thing um because it is open source it can run on basically anything that has a microcontroller so if you want to flash
00:56:21
your Pebble OS to your fridge you could probably do that whoa someone will probably do that someone's going to do that someone's going to run doom on their fridge on PB for
00:56:31
sure um they are planning on sticking to the core feature set of the original Pebble Eric says that not everyone wants
00:56:38
all of the features that you're getting from the Apple watch and all the stuff like that so that's exciting he put out
00:56:44
this blog that was about uh the things that he learned from having Pebble fail in the first
00:56:50
place um and someone is working on a port right now so that you can develop on top of it so it's pretty exciting the
00:56:56
more you talk about this the more I'm picturing like a pretty simple clean Smartwatch like simple watch face step
00:57:04
tracker sure maybe heart rate I don't I don't want too much more than that like keep it keep it easy keep it simple keep
00:57:12
it like a week plus battery life I I think a lot of people would be into that and it would probably be cheaper you
00:57:17
don't have this huge expensive LED display it has to get super bright okay I'm I'm in yeah Eric had told me he was going to CES to talk to vendors and I was like what for the vendors for now
00:57:29
now I know why oh yeah exactly I'm very curious to see what it ends up looking like for people to build on this thing because the GitHub right now is like all written in C which is very to me
00:57:42
difficult to understand so I wonder if there's going to be like an easier way to write for this platform kind of like
00:57:47
remember the the play date yeah that thing is like the platform to develop for it was a custom software that they released right is super easy to use a game builder so I wonder if there's
00:57:58
going to be something like that that'd be nice uh right now he only has four part-time employees working on this so
00:58:05
that's all you need that's fine yeah I mean all Google has on it too yeah and they forgot that those people were still working for them uh yeah so I I'm very interested to see if the community that
00:58:16
loved bubble in the first place like builds this back up if we get some normies on this thing I think a lot of
00:58:22
people are starting to feel a little bit overwhelmed with how much their technology is tracking them and the
00:58:27
overkill of everything right now you know we've innovated past the amount that we need I think I think the reason
00:58:34
that Pebble initially took off and had like one of the most successful kickstarters ever is going to be even
00:58:40
more true now I think people will still like this what was the reason in your head well it was a way to use your phone
00:58:47
a little less like you would get the notification on your wrist so you didn't have to take your phone out your pocket and then the phone the notification
00:58:52
would say like it's a text from someone or it's an email or whatever it is then you can just put it down and then it would just go back to showing the time
00:58:58
and if it's simple beautiful shows you the time and you're not like poking around and doing all gestures and checking your heart rate and all that
00:59:04
stuff if you just want a simple Smartwatch I think that's it doesn't have to be $700 Smartwatch it could be a
00:59:10
149 Smartwatch and it could do all the things you want the animations were also very nice yeah um also this came out
00:59:17
when the iPhone 4S was the newest iPhone so back yeah throwback is that Nostalgia
00:59:24
too yeah I think so it's the square one before they got round and then eventually got Square
00:59:30
again I think the 5S was the first one I ever reviewed yeah oh wow 5S wow that's
00:59:36
to me that's Nostalgia yeah pre yeah wow anyway about all for that we'll keep an
00:59:42
eye on it okay cool all right well we should take another quick break we got some something or nothing coming up but
00:59:49
before that trivia trivia got to yeah I know oh yeah slacking so at CES 2018 Lenovo launched a standalone headset running on Google
01:00:04
Daydreams platform do you remember what it was called what the Lenovo headset was called No q87 986 X close you have
01:00:13
to put a ThinkPad in front of that the ThinkPad face the ThinkPad Elite Facebook face
01:00:19
Facebook damn I have no idea I'll be totally guessing at that one yeah aners at the end though we'll be right back
01:00:27
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waveform for an extra 10% off welcome back so now we are going to do a game that we call something or nothing let's
01:01:45
play a game let's play a game so the rules are simple I'm going to read a headline and you guys have to tell me is
01:01:51
this something that we should care about or is this nothing at all and I got you yeah nothing at all nothing at all all
01:01:57
right first up at all iPhone se4 leak shows single camera and no Dynamic island is this something or is it nothing nothing I'm going with nothing
01:02:10
it's like the one thing that's interesting about it is it usually the SE is in the body of an old iPhone
01:02:16
that's already happened which is why they can make it so cheap it's because of the part that they make already I agree this one slightly air quotes new
01:02:24
design mhm is like oh they're making like a new part for this thing other than that single camera does not surprise me no Dynamic rain no Dynamic Island does not surprise me yeah so I'm
01:02:35
I'm going nothing yeah they're keeping the dynamic Island for the nicer phones the SE is the phone I always buy my mom
01:02:41
every seven years so I don't think she's going to worry about the dynamic Island you guys don't think it looks beautiful
01:02:48
the dynamic Island no this is I like how it looks like a NEX 5 almost I feel like
01:02:55
this is going to be Ellis's next phone oh 100% that's oh cuz it's small because it's small it's not even that small say oh you're right is it like a 6in screen it kind of looks like an XR you mean 10r
01:03:08
what tener ten ten the tener what they call it in the UK uh yeah I'm sticking with nothing on
01:03:14
this one all right yeah nothing nothing so we shouldn't care about it rumored to be an OLED that could be cool but still
01:03:20
probably not crazy still nothing all right next up open AI launches is GPT 4 government Edition less than nothing is this just going to be a repackaged GPT that's more expensive for
01:03:33
the government uh yeah cool cool I think it's also like specifically tuned to government agencies um I think it's just ways for
01:03:46
open AI to milk the government yeah so the top comment on the verge article is why not deep seek it's open
01:03:52
[Music] source and then top apply is uh yeah it's going to be banned yeah it'll probably be banned within a week what's the over under that deep seek is banned in a week no way it
01:04:03
can't get it doesn't have the clout yet for like that guy in the Oval Office to do anything about it it took like a
01:04:09
trillion dollars off the stock that's actually very fair yeah totally fair I do think that yeah I think they need
01:04:16
Congress to be able to actually ban it but I feel like they're going to ban it wait will they get lemon first will they
01:04:21
get which will be banned first lemon8 100% or Deek Deek nobody remembers at lemonade I got 20,000 people over there on lemonade that's
01:04:32
actually true I got 1,700 on Pixel fed you know what I looked I looked I have the 18th most popular photo ever on Pixel fed W what is it a good photo what is it of I would say so it's of Glacier
01:04:46
National Park okay you could even break top 10 I'm so disappointed wow ever Adam
01:04:52
I made my account two weeks ago no that's a flex Flex yeah let me fle I respect that anyway gp4 government
01:04:58
Edition I'm going nothing nothing nothing nothing all right next up threads is officially getting ads
01:05:04
something everything everything this is everything I called it didn't I tell you guys like obviously threads had their
01:05:11
like yeah you know moment of exploding onto the scene 100 million users in 5 days whatever it was like everyone's like the headlines are all like this is going to overtake Twitter this is the thing we we finally have a
01:05:23
competitor and it's meta so meta's sneakily in the background like yes yes come to threads meta is an ads business
01:05:28
but eventually yeah it's meta like we knew that they were eventually going to do ads so we knew they were building in
01:05:34
the background waiting to find a good time to turn it on and they're going to turn it on and it's going to be another meta property with ads and what else is
01:05:42
new yeah but I'm saying it's everything it is everything because this is this is what they do yeah and now they've
01:05:48
acquired a lot of users and then people will migrate to Blue Sky right that's the next move come on baby cuz Blue Sky
01:05:53
now think about blue sky 30 million yesterday just saying they passed 30 million users Blue Sky will blue sky get
01:05:59
ads um I have no idea 100% because they are run by a company obviously they're run on that open protocol but they're still run by a company correct service
01:06:11
money things cost money these employees cost money so does Blue Sky have to do you know Blue Sky doesn't even use AWS
01:06:18
they run their own servers that's expensive it's actually cheaper than AWS which is surpris current volume because
01:06:25
AWS is expensive I guess it scales up with volume so if your 30 million users are active on this thing it costs a lot
01:06:32
and they charge you for convenience but you still have to buy those servers and like run it still cost money it cost
01:06:37
money but it is technically cheaper but yeah I have been talking to the blue sky crew a lot recently and they said they
01:06:44
are thinking about the right time to move the at protocol into the internet engineering task force which if you watched our hey if you watched our
01:06:54
special episode we all just glazed over secret history of the internet the ietf they're the same guys that do email shout out to them they have one of the nerdiest sounding names of all time but
01:07:07
I appreciate that Daddy vent yeah Daddy internet I was emailing with vent uh this weekend it was crazy it was crazy I
01:07:15
was like I access it yeah vent you mean big V internet zatty Our Father anyway uh yeah so blue sky public PLC wants to eventually move the at protocol into a a
01:07:28
standards body because they want to instill that trust because currently Blue Sky PLC is the same company that
01:07:35
runs Blue Sky the platform and the whole idea is that you know they are not the only one on the platform on the protocol so you're saying next one everything something it is something for sure it is
01:07:48
something in the way meta moves do you think this will matter what ads yeah when ads hit will be a another moment another Reckoning for everyone on threads who has been preaching the word
01:08:01
of threads and they'll have to decide if they're cool with it or not yeah but most people haven't been preaching the word of threads they've just been on
01:08:07
Instagram and then they're like What's this click the button and now you have a threads account Adam you're going to start me ranching again well there's
01:08:13
that movement there's also the I'm leaving Twitter movement yeah and then when it gets ads they'll have to be like I'm cool with that that's not what I hated about Twitter and I was just that's exactly my point everyone is used
01:08:25
ads already so yeah they exactly maybe it's nothing maybe maybe this was going to happen the whole time and it's like
01:08:30
it's just going to be back it's everything for meta cuz it'll probably boost their revenue by like a lot will
01:08:36
it they have WhatsApp and Instagram with two billion users yeah yeah but a cool a
01:08:41
cool 100 200 million more isn't that bad yeah yeah could use another 20 bucks I guess
01:08:47
yeah all you need to do blue sky if you want to make all that money back make very highly customizable ads highly
01:08:55
customizable profiles where you can have like a pink background and a and a song that auto plays when you go to my
01:09:01
profile nice I love it next on the list is open ai's new operator AI agent can do things on the web for you so did you read these articles about this no I did not I I have an understanding of what it
01:09:14
sounds like it's doing based on the headline but yeah maybe is there something deeper well okay so operators
01:09:20
this new feature that they have with uh the expensive model that they have and basically the $1 one yeah that's crazy
01:09:27
basically it's it's in research preview mode right now the idea is that you can say like I want to go on a vacation can
01:09:34
you book it for me and it'll go to like Trip Advisor and then it'll I still think this would be a banger video we
01:09:40
should do that having AI like book a full Tri book a trip to like Boston or somewhere nearby and follow the
01:09:46
itinerary oh boy so they have like it's very weird they have specific Partnerships right now where it'll use
01:09:55
specific websites and services for all of these things that it wants to do for you which feels very rabbit r1y to me if
01:10:03
uh I do say so myself what do they call those agents agents yeah agents oh it's the same thing yeah it's basically an
01:10:09
agent that goes and does things for you but you can see it like clicking around um it was funny I believe Casey Newton
01:10:14
did this and it booked it for like the completely wrong date nice something like that and everyone that has been
01:10:20
using it that has been talking about it on Reddit says that it's really bad like it's it barely works so is it something
01:10:27
or nothing if it works it's something but I but if it doesn't work or if it works as well as rabbits which is which is not at all which I mean okay it's open AI so maybe
01:10:40
I have to give him benefit of Doubt but like I don't do you I don't know I also like I am I am heavy me personally in
01:10:47
the camp of I want to overthink each individual detail of the things that I'm doing so instead of asking an AI agent
01:10:53
to buy something online for me I want to just double check it's going to the right address and that I would have the right shipping speed and all that stuff
01:11:00
and if I'm booking a trip that's even more yeah no way I I tend to think it's already easy enough to do most of these things online the capabilities and the trust level have to have to like merge
01:11:12
and both of those things like the capabilities are moving at like 1 M an hour right now and the trust trust
01:11:17
levels are like going the other direction yeah so I don't know I don't know I I think currently it's kind of
01:11:26
kind of nothing and I also don't really think that this is the way that we're going to be using AI agents in the future so like Marquez said like I I
01:11:34
think people just want to make their own decisions I can just book a flight let me look at the flights too like instead
01:11:40
of me going hey book a flight to Boston for me for this weekend I want to look at all the flights pick a time yeah
01:11:47
which oh the one at noon is actually cheaper than the one at at 300 p.m. so let me do that one instead now I'm going to plan something to do when I land at
01:11:54
this time because it's earlier like I want to I want to do that yeah if you can if you can do things like check the
01:12:01
available flights and give me options quicker than I could do it myself then that's cool you know there's probably
01:12:06
CEOs and stuff that are like looking at the $200 a month price and they're like yeah like book me a flight just do it I don't care which one and then they'll
01:12:12
just do it and they don't think about it and then they'll get to the airport and they're like sir you're going to and it's in 3 months I need your
01:12:21
passport yeah it'll hallucinate yeah I'll say I I'm going with nothing for now I'm going with nothing for now
01:12:27
interesting okay next on the list iOS 18.3 officially launches which makes notification summaries italic if this ain't something I don't
01:12:38
know what is that's not the official headline that's what I wrote um oh basically Apple was getting a lot of flak because the notification summaries
01:12:44
were saying uh crazy stuff and it just lying a lot of the time because it was incorrect about a lot of things and
01:12:51
trying to especially because it was trying to group multiple things into one sentence like multiple different events
01:12:57
into one sentence topics um and now when it has a notification summary it is italic to signify to the user that it's in beta or
01:13:08
whatever something really I also think it's something shows that Apple's listening to something they just made it
01:13:16
italic true do you think okay this is my question I have not talked to like a normie and been like hey your notification some suies is it more obvious that it's an AI guess now
01:13:29
because it's italic because I actually hate how it looks now the the italic look is not not
01:13:36
a good look it's like it's it so it has to just look different from a regular notification that's the point of italic
01:13:43
right okay Apple understands that people have seen these AI summaries and don't like them and if we make them look visually
01:13:53
distinct from normal text then or a normal notification then that's better than not yeah so that's that some that is something that is that's a something
01:14:05
that's a thing I feel like it's something because this is a red flag for just Apple intelligence in general I
01:14:11
think yeah summarizations are supposed to be the easiest thing that AI can do right like hey take this thing and
01:14:16
summarize it yeah true and this isn't even the full Apple intelligence yet like it's still rolling out still need
01:14:22
that Siri update so if they're having with this how do I trust them to be able to actually do a thing in three months I
01:14:29
really want them to do that reach into Apps thing that's supposed to be March so yeah I don't even know if this's is
01:14:34
problems with this is this just not a useful app not a useful place to deploy summaries like when I get a notification of like one single email I
01:14:46
don't need you to summarize the email I'm I'll just look at the subject line like that's already good enough when I
01:14:52
get is a summary yeah when I get three texts in a in a chat with someone I don't know it's three texts like maybe a summary is useful but I'll
01:15:03
all I really need to know is I have three texts from this person context in my brain is like oh I remember what I was talking about with them that's the
01:15:09
summary I think there's some value to like the urgency of the text you know what I mean like if it says like urgent
01:15:16
request needed then I'm more likely to stop what I'm doing and go deal with the text than I am if it's just like this
01:15:22
person texted you three times and I'm like I'll deal with it later you know notifications are inherently useful
01:15:27
though like yeah we get a lot of them and they're annoying but they're there for a reason so I feel like adding this
01:15:33
layer of friction in front of the notification to like summarize it that may or may not be accurate is not really
01:15:39
what people want like they are funny though to go into the yeah they are if I could just go and open the app or like
01:15:46
swipe down a control center or something and then choose a summary notification then sure but to offer it like right off
01:15:52
the bat by default it's like just another St Apple only really added AI to appe piece the shareholders anyway bar
01:15:59
bar this is nothing this is just more of the nothing yeah more of nothing Apple intelligence
01:16:05
is nothing you know you know what happened I tried to use apple Intelligence on on my Mac when it launched on Mac and I used it on a on an Apple note that was a
01:16:19
whole script of a video I had written and uh it summarized it and then I hit control command Z because I was like oh and I was just testing the summarization feature and then it
01:16:33
crashed and then when I reopened it I could no longer command see it no so I lost the entire script damn my so that
01:16:41
was fun damn don't test in production my friends oh my God it's a bad thing so I
01:16:46
should have copied that note but that's on me anyway is it is that on you yeah no it's it's no it's not on you I'm
01:16:52
gonna blame it on Apple that's on them AI it's bad intelligence it's bad next up
01:16:58
David did not win a ticket to the switch to Showcase in April and neither did Adam everything yeah this is everything
01:17:04
this is everything I agree switch is so hype y switch is so hype so hype dude you had to win a ticket to look at it is that what's happening right correct and you so you applied for a chance three
01:17:18
chances to look at the thing that you might give them money for later no no I will give them money for it this is crazy let's get back clear is out of control dude it is so now that you're
01:17:30
not able to look at it you're still going to buy it anyway yeah probably so you just wanted to wanted to look at it
01:17:35
just to look at it yeah so they basically they were going to have three different showcase events where you
01:17:41
could like play with it early but they had to ticket it and they had to have a raffle and so they had multiple sessions
01:17:48
for New York Austin and Los Angeles wait are you is this paid no okay it's a free
01:17:54
event this is just a hype cyle this isn't this isn't Nintendo making more money this is them just driving more hype yeah people will show up with a
01:18:01
phone and make a 30-second video of it on their phone and put it on YouTube and shorts and Tik Tok and like look at the
01:18:06
switch and it'll be like oh my God I want the switch and that'll be it yeah yeah taking my content strategy no
01:18:12
that's smart that's smart yeah Nintendo's smart everything Nintendo switch 2 Nintendo switch 2 Nintendo
01:18:17
switch 2 and the last one boom's xb1 supersonic passenger jet goes mock 1. one I put this in here yeah so I'm assuming you think it's something I think it's nothing but oh boy this is
01:18:31
something the return of the what was it called the Concord the Concord if you have time for a tiny story time I can
01:18:37
tell you the story hey we have nothing but time okay so passenger Jets and that's it thanks for watching no the Concord was like that super super fast suic plane that did
01:18:48
like cross country and or transatlantic flights in like no time cuz it was super
01:18:53
fast it was twice as almost I don't know how fast it was much faster than it was so it was
01:19:00
basically twice as fast as normal passenger jet much faster than the speed of sound the speed of sound is like this Benchmark of well obviously supersonic
01:19:07
travel but it's it's a benchmark for speed for planes perfect it's like 800 miles hour right so the Concord that
01:19:14
crashed you know sort of retired that plane and we went back to not supersonic travel but the thing that really hit me
01:19:20
about this is and I remember we probably talked about this months ago but what did you use used to do on a plane before
01:19:26
the Concord when you had a 6-hour cross country or transcontinental flight nothing you just sat there there's no internet there's no no TV there's nothing to do you just sat there and so
01:19:38
you were highly incentivized to get the faster flight so you could save more time get to your destination and then
01:19:44
start doing things again now if you have a 6 seven eight hour flight you're on the internet you're on your phone you
01:19:49
can do email you can watch a movie you there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do so people kind of stopped caring about
01:19:55
getting there twice as fast and they have slowly gradually ramped up this like prototype of okay we can go faster
01:20:02
and faster than they got to like just under Mack speed and they just did a test run where they went Mach 1.1 so over the speed of sound their eventual
01:20:08
goal is something like Mach 1.7 they want to be able to go twice as fast as passenger Jets basically you can go
01:20:14
anywhere in the world from anywhere in the world uh up to 5,000 miles in like 4 hours now it's going to be more
01:20:20
expensive it's the first one it's going to be pricey I think United bought like 15 of these things and they're going to
01:20:25
slowly start making them yeah yeah they got to make them though this is still in like the testing phase of like they're
01:20:31
okay validating we can go Mack 1.1 we still got to go faster and make sure it's safe but we have purchase orders
01:20:38
and when we start making these bajillion dollar Jets yeah people will be able to buy a ticket and go from New York to
01:20:44
London in three and a half hours and sick okay but one thing we live we record right next to an airport yeah
01:20:51
when you go faster than the speed of sound boom big Big Time noises yeah yes that's not idea one of the downsides okay but there are certain Slots of airspace that are approved for
01:21:03
supersonic travel so over the ocean for example or in the the corridor for going
01:21:10
from New York to London or certain paths where uh you used to be able to go supersonic this is they did this testing
01:21:15
in one of those corridors so there are there are places where it is acceptable to go supersonic okay and so I think the
01:21:22
idea of being able to get anywhere in no time and probably also still be scrolling your phone on the way I think
01:21:30
is pretty sick why it's something to get to the West Coast in two hours that'd be amazing think about that that'd be crazy
01:21:37
think about that the flight to California is typically five and a half hours for us yeah what if it was two in
01:21:43
20 years well when they finish making the Jets and they start shipping them and the tickets come down in price cuz
01:21:49
they've got a bunch figure out wrong with them and then yeah I'm not getting on that first flight is what I'm saying
01:21:55
no oh obviously nobody's on the first flight I don't want to be none of you are allowed to be on the first flight
01:22:00
but the idea is it will be something in 10 20 years when we are back to these super sick like the Jets we fly on now are so old yeah they're not even necessarily old they're just the same
01:22:12
technology as forever ago and we don't really we're more concerned with like I mean we're cramped back there the leg
01:22:18
room's not that great the internet's not that great the TV is not that great like it's we would like to do some upgrading
01:22:25
I think it's something I'm excited make trains because it would take way I have train to California
01:22:32
Channel my inner Ellis here and say bullet trains exist these are different bullet trains exist to certain land to
01:22:38
land destinations that is fair not in the US but not to London not yet not with that attitude a big tunnel big
01:22:46
tunnel an under sea tunnel to Paris big tunnel and you can put your Tesla on a little track yeah and then it'll go it'll it'll there can be all I'm saying
01:22:58
is there can be tear of travel where like there will still be regular flights like this but there will also be this
01:23:06
will be an expensive ticket and this will be like okay you Splurge you take the bullet train instead of the regular
01:23:12
train and you get there in half the time and it's it's just an available option I have a a proposition for you mhm we put
01:23:19
all the rich people on on the Concord they come to you and they say hey you can be the first person on this flight and get exclusive video I don't want to be first I don't
01:23:32
want to be first I I so so they're doing these test flights they're they're it's
01:23:37
like a Navy pilot and like they're going in this specif specific Corridor and like slowly ramping up in speed that's
01:23:44
all great don't put me on those then they're going to get to like Mach 1.7 and they're going to be like okay we can
01:23:49
do this at this speed and it's safe now we can it's almost like car Tes like when you see the top speed runs from like the Hennessy Venom F5 or some random car that's like you have to do
01:24:00
the top speed run in both directions with all the safety equipment and the professional driver once you get past
01:24:06
that stage then you can ship them to regular people and regular drivers and so you can put real passengers on it and
01:24:11
not worry too much by the way I'm just tangent City these boeings can go faster just like our cars can go faster they're just they they operate at a certain speed in certain jet ways because it's
01:24:25
most efficient for fuel yeah and sometimes I get on a plane say this thing is just going to say screw it and
01:24:30
just book it no it's going to be able to go even faster but it's going to go at Mach 1.7 because that's what's safe mach
01:24:37
four let's go sometimes I get on a flight and we'll be like 30 minutes late from the gate and the pilot will go
01:24:42
we're going to try to make up some extra time in the air and you're like what do you mean really and then I'll feel like
01:24:48
we're going faster and you can and you're like yeah we caught a jet stream with some downwind we're actually going to get you 15 minutes early and I'm like
01:24:54
you could have done that the whole time so I'm like why don't they do it the whole time because it's like going
01:25:00
faster in any vehicle takes more fuel so they have to be more efficient so this is a plane that's going to be capable of
01:25:05
going like whatever Mach 2 or something and it's going to go Mach 1.7 and it's going to be it's going to be great well
01:25:11
I for one am excited to be one of the first to get on one of the supersonic jcks from boom
01:25:16
Technologies Boom xb1 coming coming to an airport near you hard pass we'll see we'll see okay that's all I got is that it yep that's that is it that means that we should figure out
01:25:30
those trivia questions figure out I think you mean where you going with this tell Adam the answers I already know I like I have one of them I don't know question one
01:25:44
David CA and Damen HRI were two French Google Engineers with their 20% Innovation time off project they made
01:25:51
something that was introduced at google.io 2014 developers conference in fact all attendees walked away with one
01:25:57
of these things what was [Music] it all attendees um well I wasn't there so I can't confirm that all of them walked out with it but swag I dude they would
01:26:15
give you freaking Nexus devices at iio yeah now you got like a water bottle on a t-shirt
01:26:20
yeah disgusting although pretty great water bottle2 and a half trillion dollar company they gave me a water bottle and the same one as last year too flip him and read what do we
01:26:33
got I wrote Google cardboard but I added a diagram uh to the bottom I also added
01:26:40
Google cardboard and added a diagram to the bottom so we should go by whose diagram is better well first of all are
01:26:46
we right I was going to say you are both okay good uh I have three dimensions to my
01:26:53
diagram okay oh Marquez wins because it is VR 3D you need three dimensions hold on here although cardboard is 2D 3D now sucker
01:27:04
it was literally just a cardboard box so you put your phone in but you you have to fold it yourself that was what was sick about it yeah it was great it was
01:27:11
pretty dope it wasn't I think like it was a Verizon promo or something like somebody did it with the packaging of
01:27:17
the box that you're new like Nexus device came in was was cardboard that's interesting that's hilarious yeah that's right yeah yeah it was awesome all right next question so funny going along the
01:27:29
same theme at CES 2018 lovo launched a standalone headset running on Google Daydreams platform what was it called I don't know if you could tell
01:27:40
but I have complete faith that Android XR is going to be a thing that's why I keep bringing these prv
01:27:49
questions I'll give you a hint it was the Lenovo Mirage what Mirage Mirage what there's another word
01:28:02
there Mirage face headset I don't know flip him and read what do we got the the Lenovo Mirage boom dang it but air Mirage air marz just wants to fly in
01:28:17
that airplane that's the correct answer was the Lenovo Mirage solo cool wow that's depressing yeah it's a little sad yep cuz you're the only one who can
01:28:28
see the thing you want to be more lonely they were the only ones that were realistic about it that's
01:28:34
true solo yeah this is the solo so uh you know what you're getting into is like the Asus Republic of Gamers you have a lot of friends now that's what it's called yeah Republic yeah Republic
01:28:47
Democratic Republic of Gamers well I'm glad I got a point out of that um me too yeah that was fun hey
01:28:54
let us know in the comments would you get on a flight that goes faster than the speed of sound if the company was
01:28:59
called boom if they offered you a flight if you're on the first one it's free it's free you're on the first plane and
01:29:05
they go hey pick a destination we'll fly you there for free oh my gosh what I just remembered a dream I had like a two
01:29:11
weeks ago was it flight related no well it kind of I had a flight related dream recently it was about uh it was about
01:29:18
going to the moon on like a blue origin thing but it was all of us but we had to do it like indiv
01:29:25
pass and when it came up to my turn I had like the worst nerves ever and something went wrong with the system and
01:29:30
I was like I'm out of here you are not putting me on the they're like yeah we had some engineering errors it's going to be an extra 10 minutes I was like nah that's a fair choice but Brandon was
01:29:40
already in space Oh no wow oh God yeah all right well all our witches in the comments please let us know yeah hit us up tell me what tell me what the dream means that's what we really want to know thanks for watching catch you next week
01:29:54
see you later W for produced by Adam Malia we are part of the Box media podcast Network and our intro outro music is by v s do it and Ellis and
01:30:08
[Music] Ellis I can hear you're good I need to also good and perfect