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should I take this off that's right no you got to keep going keep it on for the whole episode you I should have it for well hold on let's let's I want to see I
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want to feel I want you to feel pain can you what okay
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[Music] okay what is going on people of the
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internet welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts I'm Marquez I'm Andrew and I'm David why
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do you seem slightly uneasy that was like a delay uh okay so for for audio
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listeners I am currently wearing the Apple Vision Pro um I'm probably not the only one doing a podcast wearing the
00:00:38
Vision Pro but there is something weird to it uh you can see my eyes right you can see eye I would say you can see at
00:00:44
least one of my eyes you can tell I'm looking through at you guys um this is this was basically Apple Vision Pro week
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on the channel on on the main Channel anyway having all of our coverage the unboxing covering what was new reviewing
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the thing and I feel like the podcast is a great format for just like Q&A lots of
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people ask questions on social media but you guys could probably also ask lots of questions and I promise you I have all the answers every single answer every
00:01:09
single one everyone two update I currently have a stopwatch going because Marquez is going to try and hold these I
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think everyone's question always is how heavy is it is it that heavy you're trying the the Dual Band the Dual Loop
00:01:21
band dual Loop band I have a stopwatch going it's going to add like 5 minutes but we're going to periodically
00:01:27
throughout here check in every 15 20 minutes see how you're holding going yeah so I will start by saying most of
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the footage that we've done with the Vision Pro so far was with this solo knit band this is a really cool looking
00:01:40
band this is the band that's in most of the ads this is the band that's in like
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most people's footage and it's this cool like mesh that expands and has a dial in
00:01:51
it that you twist to tighten it it's super cool yeah but it's not as comfortable as a dual Loop band because
00:01:58
it's only the back of your head and basically it pulls all of the weight onto the front of your face and I get
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this cheek fatigue and above the eye fatigue uh pretty quickly and i' I have not been able to wear it with this band
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for more than an hour without being kind of exhausted and having to take it off
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so this dual Loop band which I'm wearing now also adds a strap like right over your head where my headphones are and so
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now it's kind of lifting it off of the cheekbone a little bit and it's much more comfortable and I bet I could wear
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this for much longer so we'll see for long periods of time I highly highly
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highly recommend and this comes with it but I would highly recommend the Dual Loop band for sure when you say for long
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periods of time like at a certain point should you just put that one on and not like would you put this back on to just
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be like Oh I'm barely using it and I look cooler using this the benefit of this one is it messes up your hair slightly less and it's faster to put on
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and adjust this one's got like velcros you got to adjust and slide and put back on and you have to find the velcro and
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hope only using it for like a 5 10 minute session you just this on which
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really bodess well for like at the Apple Store setup you want to go test it this does look miles better and also it's so
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cool when you like see when you turn the dial and you see it like slowly grasp onto the person's head with these like
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nice orange bands that can expand and contract in there cool engineering for a headband can I say something before we
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get into this because I know we have a lot of stuff to get into I love how interesting this headset is because it's
00:03:28
flawed yeah I think that we've for the last year especially if you look at YouTube comments about new tech that's
00:03:34
come out new smartphones especially oh my God this is so boring this is just a spec bump there's no risk this isn't
00:03:40
even interesting why is this even a video all the the Flatline has occurred like the plateau we've reached Peak
00:03:46
smartphone all of that comment we've seen all of that a thousand times yeah especially from Apple and phones no new
00:03:52
iPads for a year like tablet like all this stuff is so stagnant this is interesting yeah this
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has lots of really high heights it has lots of places where it fall short it
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has tradeoffs pros and cons flaws that come with how cool it is it is so much
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more interesting than the boring you know stuff we expect every year and think that's why I like it part of that
00:04:16
reason is because apple is great at designing things they're great at making sure things are really good so when we
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say things are unapp like it's because it doesn't work basically flawlessly
00:04:29
this has a lot of onapple like things yeah and there's they also exist in a lot of very mature categories so like we
00:04:35
know what a laptop is so when we get a new laptop year after year after year it's like yeah we're refining at this
00:04:42
point this is a first gen product and it has all of the telltale signs of a first gen product the battery life sucks it's
00:04:49
heavy it's expensive there's not that many apps but the promise of the future
00:04:55
is also super interesting I do have to say like I uh I had dinner with veren from the Verge last night who's like
00:05:00
their video director there and we were talking a lot about Vision Pro cuz we both used it pretty extensively and we were both saying like yeah like phones
00:05:07
have gotten to the point where they're just so freaking boring to make videos about and stuff but 10 years ago I could
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not have imagined that something like this would exist in real life like when you use it for the first time it's
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pretty amazing and then later you're just like this is a Sci-Fi technology it
00:05:26
really it like you can look at the screen recording of what it looks like to be wearing the Vision Pro and just
00:05:32
see things floating around you and just like casting shadows and sitting and like you could watch a Star Trek episode
00:05:39
and someone would probably put on a headset and start manipulating stuff in space that's literally what that is and
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because the technology has kind of progressed uh progressively over the last 10 years it doesn't it's not as
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shocking because it didn't just come out of nowhere um a lot of the elements of the Vision Pro are still so far ahead of
00:05:57
other headsets that it does still feel really Advanced but 10 years ago anything like this would be magic yeah I
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think that's part of the reason why it feels so flawed in some aspects is because it is so far ahead and a lot of
00:06:11
things that came out but then the way Apple marketed it some of those things they marketed are far behind it's also
00:06:18
just flaw because no one knows what to do with well yeah that is it's pointless right now can I ask a quick question
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yeah you're at a different angle than me you can see both of his eyes both I cannot I can see one now I can can you
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go back to how you were looking at both of us I want to take a picture we'll put it in the video take a picture too yeah I can see David marquez's eye and then
00:06:38
the waveform logo that's okay so I can see both of his eyes yeah for audio listeners there is a there's a very
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distinct feature of this headset that no other VR headset has and that's a screen
00:06:51
facing the outside oh yeah okay so it's facing it's not for me at all it's
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literally for the people around me and the like sort of highlighted feature you've seen in the ads is called
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eyesight and it's supposed to put your eyes on the outside of the headset it's
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got this lenticular film over it so it's a 3D it's got this depth effect supposed to sink it into the headset it gives you
00:07:13
this feeling of being able to connect with the outside world maybe even make eye contact uh and you can tell when I
00:07:20
am in pass through mode because you can see my eyes and then when I go to the moon real quick you have this uh blue
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purple film that goes over the front of it that makes you know that okay now I'm in the headset at least logically that's
00:07:33
what's supposed to be happening I don't know that it works as well as people were hoping it's
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not nearly as bright as the videos and low resolution and also this Dome this glass Dome on my face is
00:07:49
so reflective that literally every light source is just like beams of lights all over my they need to use the new Galaxy
00:07:55
s24 glass they need it to be glare in some way and I kind of we were talking about
00:08:01
like why didn't they make it matte glass or something like that and I think that that would mess with the outward facing
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sensors I don't think you can do that I think we came to the conclusion that it would either potentially mess with the sensors or the sensors would have to be
00:08:13
a different class therefore being way more obvious and look back yeah yeah I think ironically something I'm excited
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for in version two is just the resolution and brightness of eyesight being better on out side yeah yeah I was
00:08:26
the most excited Marquez had it on I was like do you have eyesight set up and he's like yeah I was like oh I wanted to
00:08:33
see it being creepy and then he's like you can't see it I was like No And then he like looked me straight in the eyes is like there it is yeah I guess for a
00:08:40
thumbnail of our second Vision Pro video that we put out on the main Channel we literally have a comparison of the ad
00:08:45
versus what it actually looks like the ad makes it look so much higher resolution and so much brighter and they
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definitely were just tracking I think and had it in a perfectly reflectionless room yeah yeah
00:08:57
and but also so like I took a picture of it and through it on Twitter and a lot of people are like well if you're on a plane and the the flight attendant comes
00:09:04
by it's darker right and like we turn the lights on sometimes off yeah sometimes but like even when it's dark
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as is it's not Pitch Black there is a reflection somewhere and it's picking the reflection up it is still going to
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distract or like take over space on that and even still it's very dim and very resolution I know that like the
00:09:23
reflections don't bother me that much I I see them and I notice them but I can mostly pay attention to the eyes it's
00:09:29
just the fact that that lenticular film like makes the resolution pretty low really and then also the brightness just
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needs to be a lot better the viewing angle is really bad like I'm saying right now I'm seeing one of marquez's
00:09:40
eyes and like a lot unless you're kind of in a perfect like five degree angle where you can see both of them it's
00:09:45
almost like you know those protective business uh screen protectors that people put on their privacy Shield
00:09:51
privacy Shields y yeah I have a hot take for this okay even if eyesight was
00:09:56
perfect it's still a dumb idea well it's funny though dude I kind of like it just
00:10:02
take it off even it's if you're looking at someone just take just take it off no 100% okay well rle me this do you think
00:10:08
transparency mode in headphones is a dumb idea yes just take it off dud okay okaye on that I like I like Adam's
00:10:16
Boomer route me personally as a fellow Boomer I would take my headphones out
00:10:22
with transparency mode I would take this off but I do understand that we've gotten to the point where we're okay with technology and that isn't
00:10:28
considered rude so this maybe in 10 years I see that being okay I still
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feel but I feel like I I don't feel like Marquez is being rude by looking at us
00:10:39
through that well we also told them to put it on no yeah I think it is I it's also
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just weird you think someone should take the headset off to talk to you yes just take it I I feel like it's the same
00:10:52
thing I've I've had to slowly get used to like when I have headphone like noise cancelling headphones on leaving them on
00:10:59
on but switching to transparency mode and then talking to the person and then once they leave how fast do I turn the
00:11:04
music back on you know that's why the Sony thing where you can just touch it and then talk to them and then let go is
00:11:10
pretty cool yeah yeah but yeah this still has the the first gen drawback of still being very notable and pretty big
00:11:19
and awkward so imagine I don't know first gen it's hard to make like a comparison
00:11:26
because there's nothing quite like it but like the first gen iPhone when it came out was a pretty expensive pretty
00:11:31
weak technically speaking device that just had some revolutionary magical feeling controls you know yeah I this
00:11:39
argument's come up a lot not just on this but also in other things we've talked about um a iin rabbit R1 it's
00:11:46
like when the iPhone first came out everyone thought it was ter like doesn't make sense or when the iPad first come
00:11:52
out the reactions were this it's like they're all really reasonable reactions and sure this could go a long way but
00:11:59
like that we shouldn't just disregard all of the things that feel like they don't make sense just because maybe in
00:12:05
the future this will be awesome yeah I saw some of those and I totally agree I think you have to draw more parallels
00:12:11
than just when it first came out people didn't like it I think there are certain things about it that people don't like
00:12:17
and certain things about it that are the reason why it ended up overcoming that stuff right so like if you look if you
00:12:24
just go to first gen iPhone if you want to use that example yeah it was super expensive that's an obvious reason why lot of people didn't get it there was
00:12:30
also a carrier exclusive but also there were no apps you couldn't change your wallpaper there were lots of restrictions it didn't have flash in the
00:12:36
browser yeah lots of restrictions but when people used it they really felt
00:12:43
very intuitive with the controls with the direct manipulating the thing on the screen and that was new and really
00:12:50
really fun and intuitive to use and so people wanted that idea to continue and Blossom despite all of its downfalls and
00:12:58
now you draw the the parallels to this okay I think what apple is probably trying to feel like is all right
00:13:03
revolutionary input device how do we do this again the eye thing where you look directly at the item you're
00:13:10
controlling is very impressive it feels very very close to like psychic like
00:13:17
magic but sometimes it is kind of annoying yeah fattig is kind of annoying fatiguing for sure I did I did actually
00:13:23
get to put it on and try it briefly so now I know what you guys are talking about I don't know if we want to hop into that right but yeah the clicking
00:13:29
things with your hand was really cool and I mean like pretty much by your side it's cool you're kind of annoyed by it
00:13:35
when you have to when you're using an interface where you have to do it a lot like if you're trying to use that for the keyboard and do that yeah it kind of
00:13:42
hurts your eyes because our eyes are not used to doing this they're used to like snapping and staying there and then
00:13:47
snapping back like kind of gives me a headache you know and also on top of that until
00:13:53
you feel comfortable it's not just like you're looking at a n d re e w you're looking at a up to that register n up to
00:14:01
that register D up to that like you're adding another thing every time and you have to understand now that if you look
00:14:07
back at the screen you're not looking at the keyboard so it's essentially an extra input every there is a really weird thing that your brain does when
00:14:14
you're trying to use this headset where your body and your brain says I need to
00:14:19
move my head in order to change what I'm what I'm uh selected on but you really just have to move move your eyes so it's
00:14:26
almost like the like patting your head and rubbing your belly thing like you only need to do one of them mhm but your
00:14:32
body is just like I need to be looking around but it is still an extra input because it's following your eyes so if you think about it you don't just go da
00:14:40
a v i d you go D upv up yeah no so it's like yeah it's simutaneous input but
00:14:47
it's still more that you have to process you have to rub your belly and Pat your head time like it's hard it's the it's
00:14:54
as soon as you start to try to do more than one task at once that's when it becomes a little bit of an extra step to
00:14:59
have to look at exactly what you're doing like any like if you're just using a Mac and you have a window open and
00:15:05
your input device is your keyboard you're not staring at your keyboard as you input you're looking at something
00:15:11
that you're not controlling that's the difference you're looking at something that you're not controlling where in
00:15:17
this if I if I have a window open and a keyboard I can stare at the keyboard the entire time as I type but the second I
00:15:23
look up to check it none of the typing works I'm now just tapping things that I wasn't intending to tap I have to look
00:15:29
back down at the keyboard and there's all kinds of little moments like that like if I have more than one window open
00:15:34
when I have like my Mac connected and I have a Vision Pro app over here yeah what's awesome is my keyboard and
00:15:41
trackpad still work so if I have a messages app open over here and the Mac
00:15:46
here I will look over at the messages app the keyboard and trackpad still work I'll reply to a message in the Vision
00:15:53
Pro app with the Mac keyboard yeah but then I look back as I'm finishing typing
00:15:58
the message and it's now typing back in Google Docs oh can we do we know if we
00:16:04
confirmed so that's when you're connected to your Mac have we confirmed you can connect a Bluetooth keyboard or
00:16:11
something straight to it yeah you can you can okay is there enough computing power to run multiple things where like
00:16:17
you see that as a valid option or does it make more sense to be connected to I would use a oh you're saying would you
00:16:23
go on the go and compute without even the MAC at all yep uh that's one of the questions I P from YouTube scr that a
00:16:30
good question it's an M2 Chip with Safari and in my eyes that makes the difference
00:16:36
between that's right is that like they're selling this as like this new Computing input device right M if the
00:16:44
difference between is I don't have enough bandwidth to just throw a Bluetooth keyboard on this then to me
00:16:49
that this is just a new monitor not a new Computing system sure sort of
00:16:54
obviously there's a lot more nuances there but I think so the apps that are built in you can get real Computing done
00:17:01
it's not quite as powerful as if you know your way around a Mac or a computer
00:17:06
so if I'm just doing like Google Docs writing and I have a couple tabs open some browser windows and researching and
00:17:12
writing a script or something like that yeah I could do this without a Mac at all uh but the second you have like four
00:17:17
different apps open at the same time and maybe one of them is only available on the Mac or maybe you wanted Spotify in the background but now you have to have
00:17:23
that as a browser tab like it starts to get annoying I have a question yeah you can have Safari as an app that you can
00:17:28
run in Vision Pro but they only allow you to do one display of safari did they ever say no you can no no so Safari you
00:17:37
can have as many windows and as many tabs open in Vision Pro okay I actually don't know the limit but you can have more than one don't tell David that
00:17:43
sorry it's the it's the Mac thing so if you're paralleling from your Mac you can only uh display one window of your Mac
00:17:50
and then you can have other stuff exact did they say why that's the case they didn't say why uh I I wonder if that's a
00:17:57
compute thing if that's because it' be really nice if I was editing in Final Cut but I also had some other Mac
00:18:03
application that I wanted to oh yeah no that's the first thing I wanted to do I mean my editing setup in Final Cut Pro
00:18:08
is two monitors one full screen with the video preview so if I want to do animations or text or color graphics and
00:18:14
then the other with the timeline and the the bin Clips bin and everything that's so frustrating and I don't understand why that's a limitation it's not the
00:18:20
same thing like they don't have enough pcie lanes because that's what they did with the M1 chip and why they don't
00:18:25
allow multiple displays on the MacBook Air yeah I would suspect it's something to do with I mean it's literally
00:18:31
wirelessly transmitting this to the headset I I suspect there's just an a total amount of pixels that you can
00:18:37
mirror before it gets crazy and you know what's funny so we were doing when we're making this review there's two ways to
00:18:43
screen record actually yeah you can screen record using the built-in screen recording in the headset and that will
00:18:48
show you exactly what I'm seeing but it'll export a 1080p video and the video will have what's called fiated rendering
00:18:56
which means that only what what I'm looking at with my actual eyeballs is
00:19:01
sharpen and focus and if you look around the rest of the frame you'll notice it's actually blurry and lower resolution and
00:19:06
out of focus and that's because that's totally fine for the way I see it in the headset if I look down the middle at
00:19:13
some text and that's crisp and rendered my eyes don't really care about what else is happening in my field of view
00:19:19
right the other way to screen record is to connect it to xcode and it's in developer mode and then we can do full
00:19:25
resolution screen recordings on the Mac without fobi without oated rendering and we have some of those clips as well in
00:19:30
the review those clips all stutter the headset they slow it all down any
00:19:36
scrolling starts to get choppy and that's just more sharp pixels being
00:19:41
rendered and sent and I I do think there's a compute limit somewhere in there so maybe that's why they I kind of
00:19:47
feel like that's one of the reasons why I can't do two Mac displays interesting thing about that though is that like the
00:19:53
Mac is the thing that's power that's processing everything so the only thing that's coming in is the wireless input
00:19:59
is the input yeah yeah just a bit that's that just means a bandwidth thing yeah in terms of I guess just a like in terms
00:20:06
of just a window it would be so sick if in a world where final cut straight up is on this and you're like I just have
00:20:12
this like giant timeline and then your your viewing screen is pushed back in
00:20:17
like a big wide screen and you have like all your color wheels over here that would require Final Cut for Vision Pro
00:20:23
that would be nasty and I want that I feel like so much of this podcast is going to be speculating how sick an app
00:20:30
could be inside of this but that would also mean my media has to also be on the
00:20:35
Vision Pro bro you it comes in yeah the last video was well over so
00:20:42
that's tough but yeah oh I just want to say not to defend the the Ola Zuckerberg
00:20:47
skull cooker but on meta Quest Pro and three uh that thing gets hot my brow is
00:20:55
sweating but um you I can run three full sizee monitors on the remote desktop
00:21:03
appliation you happen to know the resolution of those desktop I will have to double check but it seems like they
00:21:09
run them in Full Resolution I really don't might be fiated no maybe but it's
00:21:14
be CU I have the square Monitor and then a normal 1016 monitor right and then so
00:21:22
it it does like the square and as a dual yeah yeah and then I can add a third
00:21:29
monitor that doesn't even exist in real life that's all so that's interesting I I think there may be a difference in the
00:21:35
process of what they're doing sure yeah I think that what's happening in the quest is literally screen mirroring that
00:21:41
wouldn't surprise me and what's happening in the Mac is a virtual it's a new virtual display it's not mirroring
00:21:47
the screen of the Mac so it's a totally new resolution of of new rendering
00:21:53
happening and now that I think about I don't think they're full resolution displays cuz when you take off the headset and look at my computer monitors
00:21:59
they're cropped by about 2/3 and then it's rendering it's mirroring that yeah
00:22:05
yeah yeah I don't know I know that everyone makes parallels to the iPhone and I think it makes sense to make
00:22:11
parallels to these things I just want to say that like correlation does not equal causation totally fair something that
00:22:18
like everyone loves to say oh because it doesn't make sense and it's new and expensive that means it will succeed and
00:22:25
like that's obviously not true and then also the I phone had a very clear thing of you can replace your iPod and your
00:22:33
phone and this are you getting it are you getting it you can replace these three things in one and this is
00:22:39
like you can do stuff yeah and when when
00:22:45
he said that the crowd instantly was like oh we're getting it yeah we're getting it whereas this is just like it's it's not replacing anything really
00:22:52
it's just a new paradigm completely which is something that has to be yeah okay here's two uses that I think are
00:23:00
totally unique to Vision Pro and also I just want to note we've just passed 20 minutes on the timer I'm feeling the
00:23:06
first of the fatigue start in the middle of my forehead now and this is with with dual strap with the DU better strap uh
00:23:13
but two things that are totally unique to Vision Pro one is and it's super Niche but it's editing videos on the
00:23:20
plane and I could probably expand this to doing a bunch of things on an airplane but take someone like me for
00:23:25
example trying to edit and Final Cut Pro on a lap top on the plane but it's a top secret Vision Pro unboxing so the person
00:23:31
next to me can't see it or I'm just uncomfortable with that person seeing what I'm editing whatever A Vision Pro unboxing but you're wearing the vision
00:23:38
it's it's a new top secret thing it's an embargoed OnePlus 12 review okay so that's happening on the plan so the
00:23:45
person next to me I don't want them to be able to see this so I literally I have the headset on it blacks out my Max display and now not only are they is the
00:23:53
Privacy a now factor I can now make the display as big as I want so I have a new larger display I can take with me
00:23:59
anywhere I go there's probably coffee shop people that would do the same thing but I'm using airplane as the example that's a new thing for Vision Pro and
00:24:06
then the other thing is I mean technically just watching VR videos or
00:24:12
watching videos in a virtual theater
00:24:17
environment or something like that like this new media watching experience which this could be the largest display the
00:24:26
largest TV in somebody's life technically this that
00:24:32
you can only watch by yourself that you can only watch by yourself and only watch things that are into the headset
00:24:37
via Apple TV or Disney plus and or Safari and doesn't have any inputs to
00:24:43
play games that aren't on the headset small cat super fruit ninja though this
00:24:49
is like making me do you remember when there was that trend of people like taking the or buying broken MacBooks so
00:24:54
they could just use the computer and the keyboard yeah that seems like it could potentially
00:25:00
happen for this like that on the plane then you don't have your screen open and the person in front of you potentially leaning back and snapping keyboard deck
00:25:07
yeah just just the deck yeah that that would be that's a short or a video that's potentially funny I found a Verge
00:25:13
article about when that happened it's called honey I decapitated the MacBook converting the laptop into the slab toop
00:25:18
is surprisingly free Andrew you discovered a really funny prank with the
00:25:23
Vision Pro a few days ago too did I where you slid your arms oh we did
00:25:30
confirm this works the scenario of this happening never would really please don't do this to people but do you know
00:25:35
how like there's times where I don't know if you're in like class or something and you have to do a challenge where one person is like the arms of the
00:25:43
other person you're like behind them and you reach through their through their under their armpits yeah so Marquez was
00:25:48
in The Vision Pro put his arms behind his back and I slid my arms through his and then he looked at things and went
00:25:54
click and I I could click my hands and it would start it would register all despite our complexion being quite
00:26:02
different Vision Pro fairly assumes that if there are hands in this bubble
00:26:07
they're probably yours but you're right you can totally hijack someone's it's so reminiscent of the what was it pixel 4
00:26:15
controversy of being able to unlock someone's phone with their face without their eyes being open so you could like
00:26:22
do face unlock just like shine it at your partner while they were sleeping and then there was the whole controvery of like if you're doing that you should
00:26:28
not be dating uh and then Google actually issued an update so it had to use your eyes really like blink it had
00:26:35
to it just like registered your eyeballs yeah to be fair after we tested that we did test your hands being out and me
00:26:41
just putting my hand in and trying to click and it did not work yeah it can only do one set of hands yeah oh man
00:26:47
there's so many more we should try one of your hands and one of my hands I think it would be fun I would work I mean I think that's good because uh I
00:26:54
don't know maybe you are a person that has like a prosthetic hand and if it just recognizes any hand and it doesn't
00:27:00
to be your that's better yeah they PCH they certain yeah that would still work
00:27:06
yeah I think that's a good accessibility thing yeah and I don't think it's that much of a security RIS no it's that
00:27:12
would like almost never it's on your face but it was funny that it did happen also even if you put your hands through
00:27:17
the other person's like like arm holes you can't see what they're seeing so why does it matter it would have to be so
00:27:24
specific like your screen mirror you have to be like look at Safari look at it look at it cck yes okay now look at
00:27:29
the URL bar mkb.com I want to make a movie about that Heist all right well
00:27:35
we're at 28 minutes now I haven't taken it off yet I think we should take a quick break and maybe when we come back
00:27:41
we'll do some like Q&A like rapid fire stuff because I still I'm telling you I got all the answers I just need to
00:27:47
format all my thoughts for the review video but we should do that so before we do that quick break we should do
00:27:54
modified trivia trivia I refuse to believe Marquez isn't
00:27:59
searching the answers in I was about to say that huge for me actually I'll know when he's what's the question you're
00:28:05
saying what was the first year that the statue of was born that wasn't a valid
00:28:11
question but I'm just saying you could oh no I hate this I really don't want
00:28:17
this to get normalized it bothers me June 17th
00:28:23
1885 really that was you just did that that was when the Statue of Liberty was I know delivered yep wow yeah 1885 I I
00:28:32
don't know how to enforce fairness years after because we we can watch him typing in the air okay points don't matter for
00:28:38
this one how about that but he can type with his eyes though he can just go like you may have noticed Marquez has said
00:28:44
this is both modified trivia and points free trivia and he's correct that's because yesterday we taped the latest
00:28:51
installment of waveform trivia Extravaganza which should be out next week but I won maybe he did maybe he
00:28:59
didn't I shouldn't say Adam won it's Adam won I won really Adam and I are the
00:29:04
winners every time yeah um what are you doing I know you're
00:29:11
doing something because I see that blue glow
00:29:16
nothing Jimmy are you paying attention to me luckily for us I pretty sure this
00:29:21
question is both ungoogleable and a little sneak peek of the kind of stuff that you guys are going to hear next
00:29:27
week in trivia Extravaganza so Marquez Andrew David which legendary mobile
00:29:34
device was more expensive at launch 1996's Palm Pilot professional or 2002's
00:29:44
T-Mobile danger sidekick sidekick because if you will not be able to
00:29:49
Google this question challenge I promise so if I ask what do you what do you click it I see it we don't have a camera
00:29:56
that has marquez's hands on screen but he's clicking away right now so if I asked someone for a PPP loan would it
00:30:03
mean the small business loan that was given out for Co or a Palm Pilot professional loan because it was so
00:30:09
expensive wait Palm Pilot professional was the other thing called the PPP loan it's like the small business loan that
00:30:15
the government gave people during it's a Well I don't know I you deserve to know the question because you have to answer
00:30:21
it but I don't trust you PPP loan is paycheck Protection Program it'll be
00:30:27
right back we'll be right back know
00:30:35
that this episode is brought to you by visible Wireless okay so visible Wireless is one of our partners and
00:30:41
they're pretty great they asked me to talk about why visible might not be interesting for you pretty refreshing
00:30:47
right so visible based plan with unlimited 5G data on Verizon's Network for 25 bucks a month works great for
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lots of people so what's not to love well they're all digital so you do everything from managing your plan to
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getting customer service right in their app so if you love to handle everything without ever needing to talk to a human in a store visible is great but if you
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visible.com all right welcome back before we hop into questions I just thought of an app idea for the Vision
00:31:41
Pro okay okay so app developers get ready app developers get ready so you see eyes when you are looking at someone
00:31:48
right so the whole thing is that you are looking at them and you're paying attention to them and it's glossed over when you're in something can someone
00:31:55
make an app that just shows your eyes so that when like you're you know playing
00:32:01
on the Vision Pro doing something cool and then like your mom or your sister comes and distracts you you can just turn it on so they think you were paying
00:32:07
attention to them but you're really still in Vision Pro so it just disables the blue glow yeah and then shows your
00:32:13
eyes you could call it real eyes realiz realiz just call it real eyes Real Lies
00:32:21
True Lies just saying True Lies that way you can stay in your VR even when your
00:32:26
pesky parents trying to get you to do things should I keep this headset on for this entire second segment you should
00:32:31
keep it on for the whole I want to see if you can last the entire episode okay even the segment that doesn't have to do with Vision Pro I will try well because
00:32:38
I have a question yeah now you've been wearing it for half an hour like do you feel eye strain in the same way the
00:32:44
Oculus series sometimes do no no eye strain damn The Strain with Vision Pro is purely weight I want to use it longer
00:32:52
but the first three times I used it I used it for about half an hour and and then afterwards for about an hour I
00:32:59
couldn't focus on anything close to me does that mean we need glasses if it makes our eyes yeah I because the Oculus
00:33:05
makes ey my eyes hurt you know what I think is part of it so the default with Vision Pro is is pass through mode so
00:33:12
you don't really spend a lot of time in Virtual environments unless you decide to so most of the time you're looking at what the camera feed is showing you from
00:33:17
the outside and it does look very very close to real but it is notably a little
00:33:24
bit more compressed dynamic range like it's a little muted like if you were showing me super bright like if this
00:33:30
light up here was actually dramatically brighter in the headset I think that would be more fatiguing but when I look
00:33:37
at the light the shutter speed changes and everything gets dimmer like everything stays kind of within this
00:33:43
sort of right uh small range like what the iPhone does yeah the same it still is a screen though burning your eyes it
00:33:50
is a screen wait shutter speed doesn't change does it I thought ISO only changed no it changes shutter speed too
00:33:56
it changes both so and it gets like weird if you are in low light always high it's just that it
00:34:02
adjusts in a high range so you can't tell different so if you but good question if you go to low enough light
00:34:08
what happens the question or the answer most people suspect is it would get really wonky and bad what mostly happens
00:34:14
is Apple tries to keep shutter speed high enough to keep things crisp and in order to do that you have to crank ISO
00:34:20
camera people you know that usually results in a lot of noise so yes when you're in low light it tries to keep
00:34:26
things visible and sharp and therefore it is more noisy and it adds this noise
00:34:31
reduction and softens things a bit and it looks like you're looking at a low light camera feed yep so it looks it
00:34:38
works way better in well lit environments to your face yeah yeah yeah
00:34:44
it's camera uh okay what else you want to know you are big on to-do apps and
00:34:50
you mentioned it does have a to-do app what is the to-do app it just you pin it and it has a checklist in Vision Pro
00:34:57
yeah so there is no to-do app I'm looking at the there's no to my apps yeah so I've installed my own which is
00:35:04
an iPhone app and it shows up in the compatible apps any iPad app basically
00:35:10
any iPad app where the developer has check the box and maybe that adds a few lines of code it will show up in the App
00:35:15
Store and that will work so there oh there is things so recently the to-do
00:35:22
list app called things added a Vision Pro specific app okay I haven't tried it yet it's like 30 bucks I imagine there's
00:35:29
some fun immersive features that they've added that I haven't tried it's 30 bucks things is crazy is 30 bucks per platform
00:35:39
I bought things for mac and it was $50 and then I went to go download the iPhone version and it was like five more
00:35:45
dollars please and it's $ 30 more dollars in the VR headset anyway so things please don't
00:35:52
do that really 30 bucks okay cool is it good it's good but it's not on Android so I can't really this is my idea for
00:36:00
for a a to-do list app in VR and for 30 bucks I think it better do this you
00:36:05
should be able to pin your to-do things on different things throughout your house thousand what do you mean no the laundry
00:36:13
basket I walk by and I see a little thing that's like finish laundry it's what it should be is different priority
00:36:18
tasks are given different speeds and they gradually chase you around so things that you really have to get done
00:36:24
you turn around and it's that is IDE the less important things
00:36:29
they're just sort of you know you know what Joanna did in her review I haven't tried this app yet
00:36:35
but there's a cooking app yeah and there's a it'll have like a recipe that stays like pinned on the cabinet and you can always look over at it and it'll be
00:36:41
able to set timers for you and you can hold the timer down and place it on the thing that it applies multiple timers
00:36:48
multiple a a pot could have like a five minute that's exactly what she did in
00:36:54
the video she put it over the two different things but at the same time um you could just
00:37:01
cook which we've been doing for thousand let cook let him cook so this is the thing there are lots of instances where
00:37:07
it's like you could just do it the way you've always done it and I agree it's a lot more effort to add all of these things on top of your world but the
00:37:13
promise of how great it could be if there was a lighter better version of this headset is amazing okay so did you
00:37:19
see this on Twitter there's like a vacuuming uh app that yeah and it was
00:37:24
literally it literally have you seen this I've seen this it literally just looks at what you're vacuuming and will
00:37:30
highlight it so that you know where you haven't vacuum yet I can complete the level of your house I can explain it to
00:37:35
Ellis where he'll probably understand have you ever watched power wash Simulator games yo I I need I need this
00:37:42
you haven't seen that no no I know what you're talking about just like I'm I'm so bad at maintaining the grid pattern
00:37:47
when I vacuum this is exactly what you need should grade you after all your the
00:37:52
Mr Beast touch app thing here's another one while we're talking about possible killer apps there was a render somebody
00:37:58
made of like watching an F1 race hold on I'll pull him up he dm' us actually okay so you know how hard it is normally to
00:38:03
watch an F1 race you're just looking at the camera feed and it's just cutting back and forth between a bunch of different like placement races but you
00:38:09
don't really see the whole track you don't know what's going on and where they are so there was this render somebody made I don't think it's a real
00:38:15
app John leor okay Johnny motion so they had essentially the whole track layout
00:38:21
on the coffee table so you could see where all the cars were on the track who was pitting where the races were
00:38:26
happening and feeds of the different races happening around the track yeah I think he was watching the TV of the general
00:38:32
feed and then his coffee table had the track with all the yeah I forget if it was I think it was Cars yeah or at least
00:38:39
just like where each number of each person was um that would be better than
00:38:44
the current way did he actually make this or he I think it's a render it's a render hold on let me find so you can
00:38:49
see it yeah it's really cool this was posted on the Formula 1 um subreddit and
00:38:56
everyone was like their normal app doesn't even work there's zero chance that formula 1's actually going to look
00:39:01
how sick this is that's dope that stuff that I keep seeing on social media of like cool ideas people have that feels
00:39:08
like that's exciting for the future of this form factor yeah we're just not there yet I do think app developers
00:39:14
should start making these apps now even though there's a chance that this form
00:39:20
factor doesn't work out because five years down the line they're going to be on Vision Pro two or three and I don't
00:39:26
know I mean a big argument that people are making uh notably Netflix YouTube and Spotify are
00:39:31
not on Vision Pro apps and the kind of funny thing about that is that all iPad
00:39:36
and iPhone apps automatically got ported to be working on Vision Pro unless you specifically opted out which means that
00:39:42
they intentionally were like no uh and so you're making a decision that you
00:39:50
don't want to be in this new platform right uh but it it makes a lot of sense to like be in this new PA I I completely
00:39:57
for lost my train of thought so I think you should just back up and I totally for can I but I kind of wanted to go off
00:40:03
that because you mentioned iPad apps yeah and there is an Instagram app on this right I'm excited about the age of
00:40:09
dashboards if that's like the only contribution we really get out of this whole thing is that like we we get more
00:40:16
cool dashboards like like the way you were describing the F1 race with that's essentially a dashboard with all these different stuff on it yeah cuz it had
00:40:22
like it also had the leaderboard and it had like different ways you pot the cooking pot timers also a
00:40:29
dashboard I think the fun thing is that we just like there are so many things that we can't imagine yet that you could
00:40:35
do in spatial stuff and so people are way more creative than we are and are
00:40:41
going to make things that blow our minds over and over again yeah I feel like this is going to be great when the form
00:40:47
factor is the metag glasses yeah and right now it's just but also when the
00:40:53
form factor is the metag glasses you know what you don't need a screen on the front to show your eyes that's a very
00:40:58
good point and I think that's why it's okay and I'm probably going to say this
00:41:04
at some point in the review but I I'm pretty sure Vision Pro is the first time Apple's done a first gen product with
00:41:10
the word Pro in the name yeah I think the first thing you do when you're apple is make a non-pro with no eyes right
00:41:18
like mean after this after this yes so you have Vision Pro it's got the eyes on the outside and then you have apple
00:41:25
vision and it doesn't have the eyes and it's missing a couple other things but it's cheaper cuz that's less parts and you can make a smaller cheaper thing but
00:41:32
the idea will be the absolute best version of this is the closest to see-through glasses and you keep going
00:41:39
further and further towards see-through glasses until you can finally actually do see through glasses and you don't need the screen anymore I think I feel
00:41:45
like my argument against that would be is their reason for the eyes coming through is that it lets you be less
00:41:52
disconnected from reality and lets you be that so then why would you do not have that on the version that more
00:41:58
people are supposed to have and be using in the real world that's fair I don't think that's something they would get
00:42:03
rid of I think that in Vision they'll have Vision Pro 2 and then also release Vision regular vision and it'll just use
00:42:10
the older technology you know what's a real bummer about this whole thing that a major Apple display manufacturer and
00:42:17
supplier didn't just announce a uh bezeless microed transparent
00:42:23
screen well they started development on this a long time ago I know well that the joke is they did do that yeah I got
00:42:31
that joke nice I didn't cool oh no but I think I think maybe that is the marriage
00:42:37
between the metag glasses and the um and the the traditional VR Escape is like
00:42:43
like as microed transparency gets way way cheaper yeah um you know it wouldn't
00:42:49
be that hard to map the perspective of yeah yeah or you can just see marquez's
00:42:55
actual face through here but there could be a there could be oleds that are
00:43:01
lighting up in front of him that he's able to see that transparent well no I was specifically thinking of the Samsung
00:43:07
one but wouldn't the issue in that be is if it was just is that all the things
00:43:12
he's seeing out you would also see coming back you would also see yeah so
00:43:18
well then it's like hard for me to like see his eye like this is trying to make
00:43:24
it see so like he still has all these things but he can connect with somebody where that would be I'm seeing all these
00:43:29
things and they're looking at me but those things are still like a micro windows in my eyes and like blocking my
00:43:36
eyes I I think I see what you're saying I feel like if there was something blocking the person Marquez was trying
00:43:41
to connect with then he wouldn't be able to see them anyway so there'd be no point in trying to make eye contact whereas if he moved it out of the way of
00:43:48
his eyes but even if it was I don't know why I'm arguing this so hard but like so Marquez could have me
00:43:55
looking straight ah like right like you're looking at me right now you can have Windows here here here all around
00:44:00
me right and I'm just seeing your eyes but to him since it's such a small glass if it was just that I would just see all
00:44:05
these things and would probably be blocking his eyes that's a good point and uh Samsung at their
00:44:11
microed uh display demonstration did not let anyone see it from the back so I have no idea what it look like from the
00:44:18
other side yeah no it is real I mean it's not real maybe come on LG is
00:44:24
actually shiing LG's is Samsung didn't say there was necessarily shpp but LG's OLED from the back is a lot less
00:44:32
transmissive when it's clear it's like it looks sort of like fuzzy and like darker and I don't know Shades all right
00:44:41
all right well what else do you want to know more questions uh someone is asking if you can use Virtual display thing on
00:44:46
a Windows PC no obviously not um I thought that question before so fair to
00:44:53
them I thought it was a great question because Marquez before said mirroring a
00:44:58
computer and I was like computer yeah no way like you get all the best things
00:45:03
with an app computer but you should be able to just have a display up of your windows on the side yeah yeah they would
00:45:08
probably sell more because they're like isolating out well at the same time the entire point of the Vision Pro you have
00:45:14
all your Apple apps in your headset does the quest Pro do windows yeah okay yeah
00:45:19
yeah I think it only does Windows uh it does Mac but it definitely seems like the windows is what they advertise Mac
00:45:26
is like you can use this if you really want they're heavier into Windows for sure um go ahead this is just kind of my
00:45:32
own question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to but I guess your way around remember before you wanted
00:45:38
multiple windows like from your Mac so if you have say Final Cut open but you want a safari window open would you just
00:45:43
do Final Cut and then pin a Safari app off to your right yeah and then You' still have it but can you only type in
00:45:49
that Safari app then with your eyes and virtual keyboard or can you still use your you can use your corre your real so
00:45:56
I could have final cut open I could have iMessage over here I could have like Safari so as long as it's an app you can
00:46:03
add extra windows effectively when you look at it it switches Focus right and then keyboard works on there the
00:46:10
annoying thing about that though is like sometimes I'll be typing something and then someone will start talking to me
00:46:16
and I'll I'll finish my typing as I'm talking to the person exactly because I
00:46:21
don't need to be looking at my computer CU I know how to touch type but it you just can't do that you can't multitask
00:46:26
that's really fun you can't multitask because your attention is what you are Computing and you are not allowed you
00:46:32
can't multitask that's that's like you're going to have like a popup ad or something in Safari and then you're just
00:46:38
going to divert your vision and not realize you were like typing half a sentence in there now you've lost it in your first I'll put I'll get I'll have
00:46:44
this all extremely well laid out in the in the review because I think it's the most unique aspect of computing on the Vision Pro is the like looking or is the
00:46:51
fact that your attention is your task only that only your task it's it's like great for multitasking but at the same
00:46:58
time basically impossible to multitask yeah I mean you can have things happening in the background you can have
00:47:04
apple music off to the side playing music you can have but like yeah yeah
00:47:09
it's one at a time yeah but that's not music playing in the background is not really like what you're paying attention
00:47:14
to it's just ambient yeah yeah there is some when you have when you're FaceTiming with someone else in the
00:47:20
Vision Pro and you get their weirdo Polar Express persona it does look like
00:47:26
the it's so funny actually that's the closest I've ever heard it does look
00:47:31
like the full express can you is it a set size window of them or can you have
00:47:37
can I be giant if you're talking to me can there can I be a Giant floating head you're talking to okay so when I'm
00:47:43
wearing the Vision Pro and I'm in FaceTime my FaceTime experience is my camera feed is just my Persona and what
00:47:50
I see is floating glass-like windows of everybody else on the FaceTime whether they're a webcam or another Vision Pro
00:47:57
Persona I can then drag the entire thing bigger to make those windows bigger Y
00:48:03
and what's kind of amazing about this is you can you can put them across the the room on the wall you can move them to
00:48:09
the right and to the left and the thing that they see when you move it is accurate to the angle that you just
00:48:15
moved it to so if I put the Vision Pro window on the ceiling they will see that
00:48:20
top of my persona's head if I put it behind me you will see blank because my persona I can't tell if I like that or
00:48:27
not well I think so this was going to bring me up to my next point which was when we facetimed him on your computer
00:48:33
David the other day where we were just a regular so you saw a window of David's webcam we saw a window of your persona
00:48:40
and I think that makes sense if you're talking to other personas but for us when you turned around or literally got
00:48:46
out of the box you just disappeared or like which what would happen if you were on a normal computer too so true I guess
00:48:53
but like it makes it feel like the whole point of this is that it is is now strapped to your head and you could potentially walk around in FaceTime but
00:48:59
that would not work because you would leave the window so if you have the window like really really big far away
00:49:05
on the wall across the room you can kind of walk around and always be in in is that what we would see we should test that to see are you smaller the thing is
00:49:12
like yeah if I'm if I'm FaceTiming with like my mom but I want to go into the kitchen to grab something I don't want
00:49:17
to disappear out of the frame even though I know that's what would happen on a computer uh I also could carry my
00:49:24
computer to the kitchen my phone you carry your phone around as you're walking through your apartment you do one of these and also this is
00:49:29
supposed to be better than those the whole time just take them with you drag I guess I mean I think that Apple's
00:49:35
trying to make it feel as close to an actual Computing experience as possible because for example when we were
00:49:40
FaceTiming you I was using my laptop which is to the left of me because my main display is in front of me so you
00:49:47
did see the side of my face and that's exactly what would happen if I saw if you had your window pinned to the side
00:49:53
of your face yep so technically it is exactly how a computer would work it's just not in my opinion like the ideal
00:49:59
form of how I want to interact with you one major downside you can't show anything to the
00:50:05
camera because it's just your saw you do this and like only your hand showed up
00:50:10
yeah so when you move your hands around in front of the headset it does actually render a pair of hands that match your skin tone which is kind of neat but I
00:50:17
obviously can't show things to you even though I could hold something up huge yeah wait can you not flip the camera
00:50:23
around and show like what you're looking at you can do that you can do that you can hit a button and show my view and
00:50:29
then I can show you something okay I bet that's why it's a window with your persona and not just a floating Persona
00:50:34
because then that would look weird if you flipped around and then it would have to like not be a perfectly shaped head and then be now a square that shows
00:50:42
it you know what's funny a lot of people were complaining because they're like Well normally when I'm on video meetings I can be on other tabs and stuff and
00:50:48
they don't know but now if I'm on if I'm like looking in another direction or on
00:50:53
another tab it'll be a lot more obvious but I guess if you're using your phone you could just kind of like put it in
00:50:59
front of you and they wouldn't be able to see that's true that's true I don't know yeah you know it's funny you can also make eye contact with individual
00:51:06
people in the FaceTime what do you mean indiv so if I'm FaceTiming three people and in my vision Pro I look at one of the people
00:51:13
MH the other two people see slightly off axis okay cuz I'm only making eye contact with one of the people in the
00:51:18
FaceTime I realize that that is more like reality but but that that also makes it hard to do a presentation yeah
00:51:25
I also want to just go back like two steps on when we were saying like well if you're looking off to the side that's
00:51:31
what a computer and a phone would be but like this isn't a computer and a phone I feel like we should have the step extra
00:51:37
of being able to like I just want to go walk to another room and not have to leave the camera it just should have my
00:51:43
face anyways yeah do it's $3,500 but I think they want it to feel
00:51:49
intuitive to like I'm not saying that makes it better
00:51:54
I'm just saying their mindset and I assume is let's make this as like not
00:52:00
different as not having a Vision Pro as possible can you connect it to a phone or an iPad the way that you use it with
00:52:07
uh a Mac to see the iPad screen yeah no you can do the other way around I can uh
00:52:14
I can mirror what I see onto an iPad okay but I cannot like virtual iPad onto
00:52:20
my screen okay yeah but you got iPad apps everywhere anyway so real quick
00:52:26
yeah we're at about about an hour yeah how you feel how do you feel I'm approaching the furthest I've ever gone
00:52:31
without taking the headset off like consecutively I feel fine fine um the the number one thing that's most
00:52:37
annoying to me is the weight on my cheeks is starting to get heavy and also we haven't talked about this very much
00:52:42
but the field of view of this headset isn't actually super wide it does feel
00:52:47
like you've had ski goggles on it does feel like my my peripheral is like bottled a little bit and I normally on
00:52:54
this podcast will just look over and glance at Adam and Ellis I now have to fully look over because the edge of my
00:53:02
peripheral is like like I can't see youed I want to put them back on see be
00:53:07
cognizant of that cuz when I used it before I didn't realize that I bet you
00:53:13
that it was like that I just didn't really notice 100% it's it takes a couple uses before you start like poking
00:53:19
around the edges and realizing how limited it is it's probably cuz you weren't in a scenario you're extremely used to where you like Marquez is in a
00:53:26
spot right now where he does that all the time and then notices it's not the same as that so you were probably just
00:53:31
using it out there and like didn't try to do things I was in Apple's demo space and I didn't have to look at anybody
00:53:37
well yeah and you weren't like in a in a like if you were at your desk and I said like hey David and like you turned
00:53:43
around like that's something you do every single day where if you tried to do that in that scenario it would be like something was different about that
00:53:50
that reminds me that my C just turned like 180 to look at me um David
00:53:55
mentioning you you guys had demos with this multiple demos which we spoke about previously but when you first set up the
00:54:02
headset and put it on does it give you like a tour on how to use it I don't remember asking it doesn't
00:54:09
right you only know how to use it because you went to the demos no wait I so the only so the here's here's what
00:54:15
happens when you first get it number one thing is you we put it on and it says hold the digital Crown to align your
00:54:21
eyes you hold it down and it physically moves the lenses in place to match your eyes then the second thing that happens
00:54:26
is you go around this series of dots where it says look at the dot and then
00:54:31
pinch your fingers together to select it and that's a calibration process but that's actually also you learning that
00:54:37
whatever you look at is what you're selecting does a few rounds of that then you scan your hands like this and then
00:54:43
you're in and the app drawer is there and you're free I'll say I I did try it
00:54:48
very briefly I was in your guest mode but at that point the only way we did is you basically allowed everything in the
00:54:53
guest mode so I didn't go through the full setup where I didn't do my face but I did all the tapping in hands yep it's
00:54:59
crazy intuitive I was super super impressed by it but it literally it's just like yeah you hold it it changes
00:55:06
where the like the the space where the lenses are so you can see clearly then like a hexagon of dots comes up and you
00:55:14
just look at each one and press them and when all of them press it goes to another set of it it's doing it in different brightness levels to try and
00:55:20
gauge I guess what's the best bright but it told you to press your fingers together right like yeah and then you
00:55:25
just like tap and then you go through that and then you're kind of just in the space and then you're like yeah oh and
00:55:31
shows up the app shows up and it was very intuitive I was just like moving things around it it does a good job of
00:55:37
when you start looking at things like the corner where you would drag it out or the bar like highlights it for a second um and yeah it's awesome it is a
00:55:44
good point though that they don't have any sort of like tutorial it was just interesting to me because even on the phone there's like so many things you
00:55:50
can long press and a new action will pop up that I didn't know was there forever I wonder how often it's going to happen
00:55:55
there is a lot of hidden UI I mean Apple has done that before right didn't they not tell anyone about 3D touch and no 3D
00:56:02
touch got launched but like I there are still things in Vision Pro apps where I will long press and go oh I didn't know
00:56:07
that had an option how did you find the control center thing only because they told you about it yeah because they told me about it so the fact you have to
00:56:14
stare up at the ceiling to find control really know the only way you can access control center is by looking straight up
00:56:20
and seeing this little arrow and then you tap it and then it comes down into your view when I was using it I saw the
00:56:25
arrow and I just thought that meant like bro there AR anything up here look down first yeah they don't want you to
00:56:31
use control I'm very curious if like the consumer version of these that people start getting is going to have they went
00:56:37
all the way down also yeah but it's also a review unit there's no I thought saw versions unless they're like Alpha like
00:56:44
not we got like a version that people will be getting in stores yeah this is what people say so but there is a uh
00:56:51
10-minute guided tour of Apple Vision Pro on Apple's YouTube channel that has surprisingly six and a half million
00:56:56
views also true which is crazy because it's a lot more views they usually get and am I correct in saying that can you
00:57:03
get this delivered to your house or do you have to go pick it up at an Apple store if you you can get it delivered but the Apple store does have like this
00:57:09
experience that they're going to give to yeah so I I would assume there's somewhat of a tutorial in that aspect of
00:57:17
when because you have to like this the slots when people were buying them were filling up fast so I'm assuming they are dedicating time to each of those slots
00:57:25
man shout out to this episode comes out on the second right shout out to all the Apple employees if you're on your way to
00:57:31
work today I'm sorry it's going to be a rough one probably the next week big kudos to all of you guys and stay strong
00:57:39
it's GNA be a long one it's funny how much like the more we talk about it the more I kind of want it just to play with
00:57:44
but I the more I also know that it will just be kind of a payer there's a perfect Reddit comment for this that I
00:57:49
have to find while you're finding that a question that I have actually hit have you tried regular earbuds with it that
00:57:57
are not airpods no but you can so you can pair Bluetooth headphones directly
00:58:02
to the Vision Pro yeah you won't get um I think it's just spatial audio uh lat
00:58:08
low latency I want to know if that low latency actually matters because if you have anything but
00:58:15
the newest USBC airpods Pro there is a lower lat there's a higher latency but I
00:58:21
want to know like does that actually really change anything yeah I was using the virtual Mac display and then using
00:58:27
my wired headphones plugged into the mac and even that latency was low enough and totally fine so again I'm not do I'm not
00:58:34
gaming or like doing anything super sensitive to latency so I'm and even then it's just audio latency so I'm not
00:58:41
actually really minding I want to play DotA on a massive screen and and see if the audio latency bothers you no just to
00:58:47
play a massive display on the version Pro and see if the bandwidth is high enough to like update that game fast
00:58:52
enough yeah cuz native on max so yeah that's a yeah I want to play some sort of game or something I feel like a first
00:58:58
person shooter would just not work the funny thing is like PE like games like CSO Pro players will actually get really
00:59:05
small screens because they they don't you don't want to have to turn your head at all you want to be able to do
00:59:11
everything in your peripherals it is confusing though because there are people who despite having 24 is usually
00:59:16
like the standard for that which is like small in the computer World these days but then they like put their nose to it
00:59:21
so they do kind of have to like they put their nose against the screen look if you look up some like Pro CS
00:59:28
players or over uh valerant players they are like touching this screen it's wild
00:59:34
um but I yeah I would like to try playing some games it sounds really cool um okay wait this is the comment I saw
00:59:39
on our apple on our unboxing video they just said do I want one no do I want to play with one for an hour or so yes do I
00:59:46
need it no no no absolutely yeah that's a very fair fair anal that could be the
00:59:52
title for one of the videos yeah I want to play with it for a couple hours but I don't want to spend $3,500 exactly it's
00:59:58
like the you guys were asking before how long do you think you're going to continue to use Vision Pro after the review process is over what are you
01:00:04
going to use it for use it every day are you going to stop using it what's going to happen yeah are you going to use it I think my main analysis so far is it's
01:00:10
still feels like a fun toy that I'll I would break out every once in a while but I still also think there are a
01:00:17
couple of things that are amazingly fun on it that I would want to use it for namely the thing I'm keep talking about
01:00:22
which is on an airplane using my Mac on a plane watching a video on a plane I
01:00:28
cannot wait for the 16-hour flight I have coming up in a month to just watch
01:00:33
videos on the plane and not even think about what's around me that's going to be great uh and I think also when some
01:00:39
new games and fun stuff starts getting announced not necessarily killer apps but I think really much more fun apps I I'll use you should wear this headset
01:00:46
for the entire 16h hour flight 16 hours is probably too much I'm probably going to want to sleep during that flight well
01:00:52
but if you were able to get a business class seat you could lay down and have screens on the ceiling yeah absolutely I
01:00:59
could have Sky gu I could have sky guide on the ceiling and then I could look out the window of the plane and pick the
01:01:04
constellations out of the sky and bring them into the cabin and stare at them damn we in the future can you when you
01:01:11
see the flight attendant coming with your first drink while you're wearing this can you screen record we won't post it anywhere because I don't want to like
01:01:18
posted there but I just want to see it from here what their reaction is when I record videos on the outside
01:01:25
tell me what color this turns so I'm going to take a video I mean I can see like I can see your eyes 10% of the
01:01:30
screen so I'm recording a video now what does that look like oh I've seen this like it's like white FL puling white
01:01:37
white this is just like the new meta Rayband glasses it's just like a blinking kind of a white glow no part of
01:01:44
it screams I'm recording right now I do not think this is a a good way of
01:01:50
showing your recording I mean it's better than the original um Google Glass which which didn't have any indicator
01:01:56
that's what killed it in my opinion it should be red blinking 100% that's like the only thing that screams I am
01:02:02
recording this should say I'm recording across the screen literally if that was
01:02:07
white and blinking and I was the steward or steart is I would have no idea that no not a chance yeah I I recorded a spal
01:02:15
video so it does like the knockoff Nest cam thing where it's like hi you are being
01:02:20
recorded I'm thinking the like the like con I store screen that just Scrolls
01:02:26
letters across it that just says you are being recorded and just keep scrolling endlessly yeah that would be awesome
01:02:33
also okay so you know those those memes that keep showing up which are they make perfect sense they're like your mom talk
01:02:38
1993 was like don't look too closely at the TV and then in 2020 we strap the TV to our face yeah the weird thing about
01:02:46
that is technically the focus distance of my eyes is further than it would be
01:02:52
if a screen was up close to me yeah because of the lenses so the way the lenses work and I guess if I wanted to
01:02:57
explain the way eyeballs work like they literally are changing their shape when you focus at something further away my
01:03:04
focus distance is further now and less fatiguing now than if I had a screen super close to my face that's a good
01:03:09
point yeah not to ruin the meme but that's just yeah focusing on things that's that's the whole reason that Tim
01:03:15
Cook when he comes on stage he says the Vision Pro is the first device that we don't look at but Through The Eyes on
01:03:23
the outside look like the sloth from Ice Age yeah yeah like your eyes look like
01:03:28
further apart and they're not always quite looking at the same thing and yeah yeah the last D the lion I still really
01:03:35
like it though I actually prefer the I definitely prefer this to not being able to see her eyes this whole podcast I
01:03:41
feel closer to 100% I think if it worked correct like if it had a good okay David
01:03:47
can see both of your eyes I've only seen one eye the entire time he's he's straight at me so I can see both eyes
01:03:52
but I do feel better now Andrew I feel weird only seeing one eye no you s I
01:03:59
feel like I'm making eye contact you are so stretched I can tell are you making eye contact with me cuz I feel like I am
01:04:06
yeah and you are yeah okay yeah so that's it's technically working I mean it's not going to be perfect when you're slightly off AIS obviously and there
01:04:12
maybe I'm just more comfortable making eye contact with sloths than you are or with virtual reality headsets Finding
01:04:18
Nemo all the fish's eyes are on the front of their face no but I swear there was this one fish that on a really wide
01:04:23
face that is what you looked like and it's so weird and I also can't see
01:04:29
all of it that's what's like so confusing glary there's probably it's not all glare it's viewing angle is
01:04:36
lenticular film like you need light from the outside to be able to see it correctly like I If you because the the
01:04:43
iPhone for example the fir the original Nintendo Game Boy was it was it required
01:04:50
reflections of light from the sun to be able to see it because there's no like backlighter oh right right yeah on this
01:04:57
can I see it better when there's a lot of ambient light no I don't think so no I think it's if you imagine a film a
01:05:03
literal Hardware layer over the display it is refracting in a way that shows a
01:05:08
different image to each of your eyes so as you move in front of the display it
01:05:13
shows you different parts of the screen at the same time I am glad they did that cuz it does look a lot better than just
01:05:18
your eyes being pasted to the front of the vision it would make it feel like it would make it feel like your eyes are just jutted out yeah where actually
01:05:25
looks like it's around where it's supposed to be on your face I think that's fair most of the time it does there are some angles where it's still I
01:05:31
think there's specifically an angle in the first impressions video we put out where it's kind of from under you a bit
01:05:37
looking up and your eyes just look like they are in a totally different place on your face than they actually are so it
01:05:44
works in some cases that's I feel like that's the whole Mantra of this front screen is like it works 15% of the time
01:05:52
and it works in the perfect Center yeah and I like make eye contact with you and
01:05:57
in that scenario it is still about 50% of what they showed off in all of the marketing material yeah yeah yeah any
01:06:04
other big questions that people had can you hot swap the batteries uh yes you
01:06:09
can buy an extra battery and surprisingly a lot of people don't know this the only way to actually turn the Vision Pro off is to take the battery
01:06:16
off it'll just go into a standby mode if you take it off but the only way to there's just like the airpods max
01:06:22
there's no on or off button it just turns turn on when you put the battery on and it turns off when you take the battery off you cannot hot swap
01:06:28
batteries so you cannot hot Swap this battery what you can do is daisy chain
01:06:33
yet another battery to this battery and hot swap that one while this one stays on I know you can do that but does Apple
01:06:41
say you should do that oh no but you that sounds like a serious fire you can't like leave it running and replace
01:06:49
the main latch battery correct no because the way you David said take the battery off off I know a lot of people
01:06:55
and this when he explained this to me the other day I was confused but everyone's thinking that taking the cord out of where the battery is it's taking
01:07:00
the cord out of where the headset connects is how you can swap the battery but obviously that is not hot swap
01:07:06
because then it turns off oh right oh hot swap yeah you can't hot swap the battery yeah you can't out swap you can
01:07:12
you plug in the you can plug a battery into the battery you can D but you be careful that I like I I wouldn't do that
01:07:19
I would do 10 batteries I wouldn't do that I would do that do that you would would I I wouldn't put another battery
01:07:26
to go into this battery you would not I don't think why not that's the whole point that has an extra USBC port on no
01:07:31
no no would you read the manual of like anchor or any other who reads the manual nerd Bro think it's a battery dog so
01:07:41
uncontrollable fire my guy I love putting batteries on my face wow all right well before we give
01:07:47
any more uh advice that will make your insurance rates go up why don't we uh
01:07:53
I'm by life insurance marz right
01:07:58
now all right and we're back with another trivia round is Incognito yeah
01:08:06
is just around can't see what you're doing back here in the meat verse we're doing trivia do you guys want science or
01:08:13
Tech I like science Taylor's version I don't know three different things I'm
01:08:20
either actually yeah points don't matter points don't matter okay I'm okay with you either here's a question all right
01:08:25
okay electrons have an intrinsic property called a spin in which two
01:08:32
directions can an electron
01:08:39
spin that's that's later that's that oh I know okay that's fine we'll be right
01:08:45
back got it I have some fun facts about elect did you really just you Googled
01:08:52
it of course why why wouldn't I Google it it's
01:09:00
right
01:09:07
here all right welcome back we are in our third and final segment I am still
01:09:13
wearing the Vision Pro we are at so in real time it's about an hour 20 an hour
01:09:19
20 um I will say now and I haven't really done that many tasks on the headset other than Googling the trivia
01:09:24
answers um wow but there is a little bit of warm air coming off the top of the headset you want to Can You Feel the
01:09:30
warm air the headset the headset itself is not warm and it doesn't really get warm unless I'm doing a lot and Mac
01:09:35
mirroring or whatever but also I never hear the fans and I never feel the hot air the the thing never actually gets
01:09:41
hot on like my face face so that's my update so the hot air doesn't come out of the headset but it does come out of
01:09:46
your mouth no the hot air comes like it like leaks and there are real fans like
01:09:52
pushing it out so hour and 20 in we're telling you to continue to put this on
01:09:57
would you prefer right now to take it off honestly I love that I can just
01:10:03
Google things okay well if you weren't cheating and trivia uh would you prefer to have this off this is the best I've
01:10:11
ever felt after this long because of the headband I'm wearing so I'm fine if you were wearing this headband I there's no way I'd still have it on okay yeah for
01:10:18
sure so the only reason to do that was if you don't want to mess up your hair or if you're going to use it for like 5 minutes exactly or if you're an Apple
01:10:24
retail store and you want it to look nice on the Shelf looks nice yeah that's nice that they give you both in the bag
01:10:29
considering the travel carrying case is $200 yeah did you want to talk about the car yes thank than you David let me see
01:10:36
this bad boy we are so torn sorry I need to bring this up I see the little can I see little sleep mask thing yeah yeah
01:10:43
this is just for like transport I know but I love it I'm going to start with the positives of this carrying case
01:10:48
Andrew has some thoughts beautiful is this like Alcantara inside yeah and it's
01:10:53
like feel it it's soft beautiful soft nice interior adjustable to where the
01:10:59
the the goggles can sit right in there strap in wires battery place for everything great material good zipper
01:11:06
awesome exterior strap that retracts back in when you're using it that's nice
01:11:11
W then it is made out of what feels like puffer jacket material that's been crumpled on my college dorm room floor
01:11:18
for like 4 months while I neglect to do my laundry waterproof rip stop mesh
01:11:24
that looks like it's been sitting on my college dorm room floor for 4 months without me doing my laundry sure how is
01:11:30
it so wrinkly I agree the wrinkles the wrinkling so bad the wrinkles kind of
01:11:35
kill it they don't kill it it totally kills it you can be waterproof and rips stop without having this much wrinkle I
01:11:41
want to say I really love the retractable bouncy band awesome very although somebody brought this up I
01:11:47
think it was Christian selig from um Apollo from ex Apollo and pixel Pals I
01:11:54
think he uh he was like The Vision Pro can the band can push forward to the
01:12:00
goggles yeah could this not be half the size I was thinking that half of this opening is just so the band can be fully
01:12:07
extracted on the back I keep thinking about like apple doesn't make that many carrying cases but the carrying case situation for airpods Max is abysmal
01:12:15
it's a and then this is like but but the thing about that is the headphones don't fold or attract in any meaningful way so
01:12:23
they're kind of is no good way to compact it it's going to be huge no matter what you just need to take the
01:12:28
damage yeah this as you mentioned like the back of the headset you can push it in and you can actually make it smaller
01:12:35
you can take the band off even and make it even smaller but this carrying case assumes you just take it off and put it
01:12:41
in and don't try to compress it at all yeah this takes up half the interior of my backpack that's a big and the actual Vision Pro takes up like a fifth of the
01:12:48
enti yeah like this feels like not backpackable not packable
01:12:54
unless it's 0% yeah and then so like half of this size you could squeeze it in a backpack with maybe a couple other
01:13:00
Essentials of the things you want with you on a plane it does feel substantial though like I people about the price
01:13:08
$200 because let's be honest when you just hear a $200 carrying case you're like that's insane I feel like this is
01:13:15
deserving of of the price maybe that's a hot take but this feels like a $200 case I'm not even joking I think it's less of
01:13:22
that it's a $200 case and more of it's a $3500 headset that doesn't come with the
01:13:28
tot someone made the point that a lot most of Apple's cases are 5% of the
01:13:34
retail value of the device so the base iPhone 15 Pro is $1,000 and the case is
01:13:41
$50 which is 5% of the value uh that's 200 which is about 5% of 3500 damn is
01:13:48
that just a math on like what we think we can get out of the customer maybe you think I'm not sure it's like how app on
01:13:53
iPad cost more because people with iPads have more money and that's I'm sure Vision Pro apps are going to be pricey
01:14:01
yeah I'm not sure if they're just like all of our cases are 5% of the product price or if it's I mean that's clearly
01:14:06
not the case because if you get a regular iPhone that's cheaper the case is still $50 I think um but yeah for its
01:14:12
Pro ones I guess I want to try and unwrinkle this there no way it came
01:14:18
wrinkled I think I can it literally came wrinkled in the box if you'll allow me I want to try and WR I think you might do
01:14:24
you do damage to it before damage to it it's just a steamer I don't think a Ste this I want
01:14:32
to try and steam this and see if I can fix it and then it'll Wrinkle in 45 seconds after I want to say I really
01:14:38
like this little like nanny granny like sleep mask that comes on the V Pro to keep the glass protected it's funny cuz
01:14:45
we didn't know about that but then Jenna ezk made like a fake post when everybody
01:14:50
else was posting them seeing it which just like an actual sleep mask and if you go back it looks almost exactly that
01:14:55
yeah that's funny what is that baggie this is for your accessories so your charging uh cable and brick and I also
01:15:02
have the microfiber in here because this thing gets infinite fingerprints and it does have a little Nick on the glass as well already yeah I mean you can't say
01:15:08
it's tiny but I have noted it because we're shooting there's a lot of okay so here's the thing I can't do it because I'm still wearing it but picking up the
01:15:15
Vision Pro is kind of a a deliberate experience if you pick up by the like
01:15:20
padding the padding it just mag magnetizes off it just falls off so you got to pick it up by the metal which I
01:15:25
imagine we've like you know clanked a phone up against it once or twice probably done other like multitasking things and scraped true so yeah by by
01:15:32
the time this pods out our last video will probably be out which then you'll know that Brandon found a way with Alex
01:15:39
and myself to rig this onto a robot so maybe that's Brandon tweeted that oh he tweeted it okay so we found a we had to
01:15:46
build our own rig to connect it to the robot so here's the question you hate this if you could buy just that
01:15:54
would you put that in your backpack like Vision Pro just that oh I think that's the better move that's the only thing I
01:16:00
care about is protecting that protecting glass yeah the inside lenses I don't know how dangerous it is wait it comes
01:16:06
with this in the original box right that's not the case thing just checking yeah it comes comes with it on it okay
01:16:11
yeah then I probably so you don't really need that I guess you're only buying that if you're carrying it just by itself so maybe that's yeah does the
01:16:18
Dual Loop strap collapse yeah okay to a point maybe not as much it still has a
01:16:23
heart but those buckles when they're collaps could scratch the that is weird
01:16:30
weird you're wide eye only one I would put it in the accessory pouch does that come with it or does that in the this is
01:16:38
just in the Vision Pro carrying carrying case oh
01:16:44
yeah for you oh I like that nice I have to be the only person in the studio that
01:16:49
absolutely adores this case no I like it no I like it you too it's $200 it's too big the material should be
01:16:57
the size it's wrinkled Andrew and David are in the this wrinkly thing is dumb camp no it's just ugly I'm I think it's
01:17:03
it's beautiful it's so sick you like that it's wrinkly I I don't love that it's wrinkly I love the rip stop
01:17:10
material like that is the kind of quality I have nothing against the rip stop material I just don't like rip stop material that looks like poo because
01:17:17
it's so wrinkly it just reminds me of like the uh NASA like font like it seems
01:17:23
like you could have the NASA logo on there and it would definitely be a NASA product it's like an astronaut suit the Michelin Man would love I think my Pro
01:17:30
like if it eventually got wrinkly because you used it so much but it's so wrinkly that the product photos on
01:17:36
Apple's website are wrinkly as a boy who spent my early years uh baking in the
01:17:42
California Sun and will when I am 80 years old look just as wrinkly as that bad I think in a little bit that'll fit
01:17:49
me quite well yeah Fair have you guys ever like painted a room or painted a
01:17:55
house and you go and you get from Home Depot those like $7 paint suits like the
01:18:00
that's what the material reminds me of that's way less cool than NASA well yeah
01:18:06
and it's also I don't am I crazy for not believing the rip stop claim what claim
01:18:12
like I I think you could tear that with your fingers I think with your fingers I don't think with your fingers I don't think it's you can't tear it with your
01:18:18
fingers no I very strong I also think rip stop in general can still rip pretty
01:18:24
easily it's just less I have plenty of rip stop pants that are ripped from a good pricker Bush
01:18:31
or a good rock or something like that yeah let me let me let me see what my f it's just it's better than regular
01:18:39
material we have rip stop mesh in the atoms as well nylon fabric that is woven so that a tear will not spread nice plug
01:18:46
oh rip stop it doesn't stop the rip it stops the rip wait let me see it it's
01:18:53
it's woven well if we're done with the case sure I think we should talk about
01:18:59
tax something else that apple is charging people a lot of money for talk about taxes into it which is potentially
01:19:05
the only other news article that came out this week yeah thanks and is one that is extremely confusing to where I
01:19:12
will sorry no no no you go I'll just say to where I will preface this where David and I have both read multiple articles
01:19:19
listen we have contacted multiple developers that we know Christian I mentioned before being one of them nice
01:19:24
enough to jump on a call this morning and help us and he was confused and he was confused as well um and then we went
01:19:31
to Apple's thing but basically this is about the new EU third party and app tax
01:19:37
that they will be charging dude we're passing EU laws I'm prefacing this whole thing and I'm going to let David
01:19:43
probably jump into this and go into how this all works but we are a bit confused because there are different Artic no no
01:19:49
no anything we get wrong is both of our faults um just kidding but there are lots of articles that say different
01:19:55
things and are confusing in the way it words it so we're going to try and get this as best as we can but new ways
01:20:02
apple is charging apps in the EU right what is happening okay yeah so uh the
01:20:09
European Union and apple have a very contentious relationship right now in many ways we've seen
01:20:14
USBC uh now they are forcing Apple to allow thirdparty app stores on the
01:20:20
iPhone uh because they see apple as a like gatekeeper of sorts the iPhone and
01:20:27
all mobile phones are basically like an essential device that everyone uses in their daily life so even though apple is
01:20:34
this company that can generally do whatever they want the European Union is saying well you need to do it in a way
01:20:40
that is beneficial to consumers or at least like open to Consumers and gives people choice so what they've done is
01:20:47
they have forced Apple to allow these third party app stores but they've done it in the most um um I'm G to put my
01:20:54
middle finger up at you European Union even though like malicious compliance there's a great sub subreddit for this
01:20:59
called r/ malicious compliance very fun that's really funny uh it's people like doing what they're told to do but in a
01:21:06
way that is so freaking annoying and that's what apple is doing here sounds like people paying tickets in like
01:21:11
pennies yeah it's like I'm paying you're going to fight for this exactly I'm going to make your life harder to do the
01:21:17
thing you're forcing me to do uh so now there are three different options that you as a developer can do if you want to
01:21:24
either one operate a third party app store in the European Union which is now forced by law or have your app on a
01:21:32
thirdparty App Store that you can access on the iPhone notably uh fortnite has
01:21:37
not been on the Apple App Store because Tim Sweeney is very against the 30% Apple tax they got in a big fight uh the
01:21:45
whole um epic versus Apple thing started because Tim Sweeney basically like broke
01:21:50
the App Store Apple rules and introduced a third- party payment method within the fortnite app on the App Store so they
01:21:57
got kicked off never really resolved it now they're going to be able to offer the epic app store as well as their own
01:22:05
third party P thirdparty Payment Processing method on the iPhone in Europe only which is really annoying and
01:22:13
one thing to note there is like just because it's in the EU and me being a
01:22:18
so there's probably a couple other morons listening to this where it's just like there are developers in other
01:22:24
countries but they still have people in the EU using their app so there are still portions of this app income that
01:22:29
are going to be affected by this and how they want to like work in the so yeah 100% okay so
01:22:37
three options option number one nothing changes you do literally nothing you
01:22:42
stay in Apple's App Store thing they take 30% cut you don't have to think about anything that's it you're not
01:22:48
changing anything option one cool option two um you completely leave the Apple
01:22:54
App Store and you only put your app in third party app stores so you don't have to pay the 30% cut because you're not
01:23:00
being published in the Apple App Store but once you hit 1 million downloads uh
01:23:06
per year you pay 50 Euro cents which is there a word for that because we have
01:23:12
dollars and cents is there I'll Google it it's cents cents it's I like I like
01:23:17
EUR the well then the conversion though is technically 54 cents USD so just
01:23:23
trying to make sure it's not exact approximately 50 cents is what we'll say for the rest approximately 50 cents per
01:23:29
user per year sort of yes the per year thing we'll touch on in a minute right
01:23:35
that was what was mostly confusing us this morning um so yeah you don't have to pay that 30% cut but then after you
01:23:40
hit a million users it's 50 cents per user that could stack up very quickly um
01:23:46
and it's it's per user over 1 million so the first one million don't count after
01:23:53
that yeah they count you guys may have had someone in your life that has said oh I moved into a t different tax
01:23:58
bracket so I'm making less money now and it's like no that's not how that works they take a higher percentage of the
01:24:04
it's additional additional income uh there's a word for that there is that I can't remember right now either anyway
01:24:11
option three uh you agree to the new terms and you're by the way once you agree to these new terms and say I want
01:24:17
to offer my app in a third party app store you're not allowed to say I want to go back to Apple only it it's
01:24:23
irreversible talk about locking am I right it's irreversible that's specifically to discourage people from
01:24:30
making this Choice yes absolutely um but if you do that uh you actually only pay
01:24:36
177% to Apple uh but then additionally after 1 million users you also pay that
01:24:43
50 EUR Cent fee per user so the tax that
01:24:49
goes directly to Apple goes from 30% to 17% which is good but if you are a very large app that has a ton of users that
01:24:55
50 EUR cents per user could stack a ton something that I was seeing flying
01:25:00
around the internet that we're having a long discussion about this morning that was very misleading a lot of people were saying an update counts as an install it
01:25:08
does not um your API it sort of does sort of does it can count as an install
01:25:14
if you have not installed the app that year or if you have not updated the app I think I read this enough where I can
01:25:20
explain this part okay so not that it's actually 50 I'm just going to keep saying 50 cents I hope everyone
01:25:26
understands what that means 50 cents it's not 50 cents per year but it's 50 cents per new install per year and you
01:25:33
get a 12-month grace period in that so if you install it after the 1 million users it cost that company 50 cents in a
01:25:41
year if you don't reinstall it it doesn't it's not another 50 cents but if an update happens after that 12-month
01:25:49
period it counts as a reinstall and restarts the 12 Monon period yeah so
01:25:55
some people were confused because they were like well every time I update this I'm going to be charged another 50 cents
01:26:01
per person who updates it you can do it a bunch of times but in every single app
01:26:06
is going to update at least once a year so just assume it as every app is basically 50 cents per user per year
01:26:13
over over a million and they do that crucially because if you basically saturated your app install market and
01:26:21
you got like you got like 10 million installs right away but then you didn't even remotely get a million installs the
01:26:26
next year if they didn't have that as a thing Apple wouldn't make any money so they have to recharge you every year if
01:26:34
you update your app at all yeah um okay so Apple makes it a big deal that oh 99%
01:26:41
of developers are actually paying probably less if they go through the third part app store because it's 17%
01:26:46
and then they don't have that many people that's framing it's framing because crucially uh the top one 1% of
01:26:53
app developers are on like 95% of people's phones yeah um and will
01:26:59
probably pay equally as much or more load of money like million like like $60
01:27:05
million it's also weird because then it's making smaller developers hope that their apps don't get popular in a way if
01:27:12
they're able to like compensate for it somehow but yeah if you have a free app that you don't really make money on and
01:27:17
it gets popular and you have it in an exterior app store you're screwed like you're going to owe Apple a ton of money
01:27:24
unless you can and unless you can like make money through ads or something you're kind of just screwed Christian was mentioning to us how like it could
01:27:30
it's potentially harmful if you make an app and you don't convince the person to do the premium version which subscribes
01:27:37
and then they have auto updates on and now every year they just kind of forget about that app and now you potentially
01:27:42
have a bunch of users who aren't giving you the income from it but now you're getting charged 50 cents per user per
01:27:49
year yeah and that adds up if you are on a larger app right so it's very confusing definitely on purpose just to
01:27:56
try to keep people in their regular app uh App Store system and then there's a
01:28:02
new set of taxes uh if you are trying to operate a third party app store so those
01:28:09
were all for just developers that either wanted to be on just Apple's app store or both or just on a third party app
01:28:14
store but if you say your um you want to make the epic app store which epic definitely wants to do this move is
01:28:21
definitely just a giant middlefinger too epic because of the whole trial thing um
01:28:26
you don't get the 1 million user grace period so if you're operating a thirdparty App Store no matter what you
01:28:33
have to pay 50 EUR cents per user install uh per year yeah and again we're
01:28:39
saying per year assuming the whole actual 12 grace period which is just going to always be per year but I just
01:28:46
want to make sure no one this is what it feels like if you're epic not only do you have to pay 50 cents per user who
01:28:52
downloads your app store at all but then you also have to give 17
01:28:58
17% of all commission from that App Store to Apple is I thought that was
01:29:05
only if if they're still on the Apple App Store as well I think if they are only in their own third
01:29:12
party then they don't have to pay the percentage at all I believe so
01:29:18
okay well I guess it is a little more confusing with that but I think I think it's if you're on both it's 17% plus 1
01:29:24
million 50 if you are just totally by yourself I guess this is you are creating the third party app store which
01:29:30
I assume if you're creating the third party app store you don't want to be on the regular App
01:29:37
Store this is how I feel anyway this has uh created a lot of contention with
01:29:43
developers this uh week because it's just been it's so confusing it's confusing on purpose it's trying to keep
01:29:49
people in their in their world Garden on purpose purpose and then there's a whole another thing with like you can offer
01:29:55
third party payment methods as well so that's the thing where like I do think some this is the potential win-win for
01:30:01
some companies some I think the Verge used Spotify as an example because Spotify does not let you subscribe to
01:30:08
them inside of the app because of the Apple tax yeah so if they can now allow
01:30:14
you to subscribe inside of the app but they're just going to be paying the 50 cents per user per year if they will
01:30:21
probably get the extra amount of Revenue through subscriptions yeah and because it's easier and then the 50 cents per
01:30:28
user per year is cheaper than the 30% tax on the subs reoccurring subscription something that some apps had done like
01:30:34
uh Twitter SLX had a way to they still have this you can subscribe to X premium
01:30:41
in the app on the phone but it literally costs 30% more per month and they don't
01:30:46
really tell you that very obviously but if you go and subscribe on a desktop
01:30:52
then you pay 30% less every month which is insane um so now it would be nice if
01:30:57
you know Spotify let you subscribe in the app but they just said heads up it's going to be 50 cents more per month if
01:31:03
you subscribe here versus on I think even if they just do it normally like they're getting a better Revenue out of
01:31:09
it or they're like making it up so it's still they they're okay with how much more Revenue they'll get by people being
01:31:14
able to subscribe in the app because it's easier versus paying that 50 Cent again this is also only the EU there
01:31:20
obviously people all over the place all over the world so it's like a lot but
01:31:26
also a little to companies that are that big so yeah and then also apple is going to be making so much money off of
01:31:33
Spotify in that scenario if they're charging 50 cents per user epic is also specifically um they're prepping to
01:31:39
challenge the changes because it kind of is a direct Target at them I was also
01:31:45
going to say the EU can still look at this and review it so this is still ongoing it is surprising as being the a
01:31:54
couple developers we talked to were basically like we are going to do nothing at first let it just keep riding
01:32:01
the 30% and see let some other people be the guinea pigs on this and see if they
01:32:06
it winds up costing them less how big of a differ is if it's worth the huge hassle all of this kind of seems
01:32:14
purposefully confusing and in Crazy to just hope that nobody makes any changes
01:32:20
and just continues to eat the 30% yeah that's definitely what they're hoping I
01:32:26
also realized David and I were going in on that for a while and I hadn't heard Marquez and I was like is he listening and intrigued or is he inside of an app
01:32:33
inside of the Vision Pro right now I was playing Fruit Ninja anyway this is an evolving story
01:32:38
as all of this apple EU stuff has been if anything Apple pissing off the EU
01:32:45
even more makes it even more likely that maybe iMessage could be interoperable
01:32:51
that's in the future because the whole beeper thing really did start a ripple like Senator Senator Elizabeth Warren
01:32:57
started tweeting about beeper which was not on my and then they all forgot about it and didn't beeper just totally shut
01:33:03
down like everything they shut down their iMessage compatibility yeah rip Win
01:33:10
w but okay so yeah that was confusing David and I tried very hard probably a
01:33:16
few things we got wrong please let us know if we did in a nice manner but do the research first because people say a
01:33:22
lot of things at us and then we look it up we're not developers true we don't know yeah so thank you um how you doing
01:33:28
Marquez Marquez checked out a while ago I can see the blue glaze you're not true you need you need that app I was talking
01:33:35
your eyes are glazing over they literally mean it can we got a Time update what's like 145 yeah there's an
01:33:41
extra five on yeah this band is way better man way better are you excited to
01:33:46
take it off though yeah a little bit yeah they're making me want a Vision Pro but I know that I will not use it
01:33:52
consistently you know there's one in the office soon too that won't be used as much that's true I'm just out here like
01:33:59
learning Googling there's a really great comment on Reddit about another comment
01:34:04
on Reddit about how when you are in the unboxing the very first time you put it on you
01:34:09
go this is really heavy yeah dude the difference between
01:34:15
this solo knit band and the way it the way it's holding the weight on
01:34:20
the front of your face versus the way this one takes so much of that weight off of your cheekbones is enormous have
01:34:27
you ever thought of just like working out my cheekbones everything that's the thing
01:34:32
all the jokes are like your neck strength your neck strength the only way I feel it on my neck is when I do that
01:34:39
that's that's when I feel it on my neck your ey your head yeah that yeah yeah yeah yeah your eye just went all over
01:34:44
the place my eyes everywhere Apple Fitness Plus adds like a cheek
01:34:50
muscle it's like how many reps of smiles can you do bro it's going to add the F1 like neck pulling workout to we'll end
01:34:58
the podcast with me taking it off and seeing how many lines are on my face oh yeah yeah we'll definitely we'll do that um oh yeah but of course we should uh
01:35:05
before we get to the end trivia should do trivia trivia dude trivia yeah we should do that we should do
01:35:11
that yes yes all right trivia quick update on score quick update Marquez
01:35:18
cheated scores don't matter cuz Marquez is cheating but check out the trivia Extravaganza episode dropping next week bonus episode
01:35:26
Tuesday Wednesday Yeah Tuesday Wednesday whenever I'm done editing it so first question which legendary mobile device
01:35:33
was more expensive at launch 1996's Palm Pilot professional or 2002's
01:35:41
T-Mobile danger Marquez you dude
01:35:48
he I'm like watching him cheat in real time
01:35:53
what's the other one yeah sucks what's all right well you don't want to
01:36:00
play my game I'm not playing your game do you guys know the other one you're just guessing the other one all
01:36:07
[Music] right I actually only know one of them
01:36:13
so I just wrote that one down just to spite
01:36:19
you wait I like your my answer is quantum whoa A B A and
01:36:28
B A A or B hey that's
01:36:34
correct are you saying that the same price no no what are you saying I'm saying that they're both or neither
01:36:41
until you tell me the answer and then it collapses and I
01:36:48
knower Ellis my answer is in a super position it is it is that's what I'm
01:36:54
saying idiot I'm I'm going with the 1 megab Palm Pilot professional which
01:37:01
retailed at $399 when it came annoying I have the same answer without
01:37:07
cheating next question electrons have an intrinsic property
01:37:12
called a spin which two directions does an electron spin
01:37:20
in [Music]
01:37:28
just Google electron spin direction
01:37:40
[Music]
01:37:45
oh close Safari okay and my answer is uh spin up
01:37:54
or spin down often denoted by negative Z or positive Z interesting so what does
01:38:00
the Z stand for Marquez oh that wasn't the question but I can Google it
01:38:08
right Andrew I just wrote forward and backwards David as electrons are in a
01:38:13
Quantum State I hate this not no they're not yes
01:38:19
it is no they're not electron spin is in a Quantum State Until You observe it a
01:38:26
particle's inherent angular momentum is parameterized by spin quantum numbers clearly wow right off the Noggin the
01:38:33
answer was up and down for The Listener yeah I know that's what I wrote about electrons being so to identify spin
01:38:39
Direction you determine the number of electrons the atom has then you draw the electron configuration for the atom see
01:38:44
electronic configurations for more information then distribute the electrons using up and down arrows to
01:38:50
represent the electron spin Direction so wow back to reality you guys look way
01:38:58
better in VR 2 hours almost 2 hours what hey I'm not used to seeing you with
01:39:03
glasses on yeah no this is this is really goggles eye opening in a stressful way literally thanks for
01:39:11
watching thanks for listening thanks for spending time with us in or not in div
01:39:16
Vision Pro we have a lot more to talk about with a lot of this stuff but uh until the next one catch you later peace
01:39:23
anyway all right all right out wait outro outro in this scenario waveform is produced by Ellis
01:39:30
Ren and Adam Molina we are part of the VOX media podcast Network and our intro outro music is by vain
01:39:36
Sil dang it is so bright in here you're that band mark on your head is pretty
01:39:50
intense
01:39:56
[Music] there was a conversation that somehow went from cannibalism into it was David
