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Are you watching something or now? Did you guys see
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Yo, what is up people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm
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Marquez. I'm Andrew. And I'm David. We're all back and we of course have entered Techtober which
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means there's still plenty to talk about. Uh there was what an Amazon event this week, so there might be some cool
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stuff there. There was a Google, not an event, but an announcement as well, and that might also be interesting. David
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also wants to play a game, I've been told. So, we'll get to that. And we'll wrap up with some snippets of
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remember that James Cameron stuff that we were going to have last week, but then we ended up arguing about horses and F1 cars.
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Mhm. Totally worth it. But to start off the podcast, I didn't watch last week's episode,
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but I just heard I just saw stuff in in the Slack about horses. We are getting dangerously close to just going right
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back down that rabbit hole. So, I'll just say we'll watch it later and then you can weigh in, okay?
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Cuz it's there's two sides to this debate. Um, is it like you need a a tiebreaker opinion?
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It's just fun to imagine stuff, you know. But we will play those James Cameron interview clips for you this
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week because they're actually kind of interesting. Uh, but first, Andrew, showand tell time.
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Oh, what do you have to show us today? Do you know how normally we put like the really important stuff of the week in the middle of the episode?
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Sure. It helps our retention rate, keeps people along. Well, what I've got can't wait.
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Wow. Um, this is the pinnacle of the episode. It could be the pinnacle of 2025.
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This is definitely Andrew's crown, but I have with me. Oh, the Microsoft XP Crux. They are in and
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they are glorious. I do like the gibbits. I'm going to give you Is it giblets or jib? You want to hold
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this, Marquez? I just want you to describe it a little bit. I don't I don't want to.
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They are the greatest. They are every ounce of perfect that I thought they
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could be. They come in a nice little bag. That's the Windows XP um hillside cloud background. They themselves have
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it on the top with like green on the bottom. Um, and the gibbits are recycling,
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um, cursor, the MSN butterfly, what a folder, files,
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files. Yeah. Internet Explorer, and Clippy. There are no words to explain my hatred
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of this product. That is so I have a question. Okay, so the inside of the Croc,
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correct, has all of these like divots, but they're negative divots. What do they
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call that? Indentations, is it? No, but they're opposite. Oh, positive. neck. But divots go in.
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Are they engraved or embossed? Um insets. Wouldn't that be debossed? They're bumps.
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It's braille. It's braille. Yeah. Okay. So, the Crocs have a ton of braille inside texture. Yeah. Um doesn't that hurt your
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feet? No, they wear out. It's for grip. Haven't you ever worn those like Adidas slides that everyone was obsessed with
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for a while? You know what I'm talking about. Also entirely The whole bottom were just like these little like hurt my feet a lot.
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I didn't love them. These wear out pretty quickly. I actually think they're more comfortable once these wear out. It's just a little texture shoot so your
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foot doesn't slide. I don't want texture on my foot. That implies you're wearing these so often.
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You're wearing Wear your kicks, bro. The irony of me wearing the shoes right now that are like wear your kicks.
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Oh, you are wearing them. Yeah. Um, this is a men's 10, but it looks like a I shouldn't say
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it's pretty looks like a 14. I'm just They're pretty big. They I don't know. They're fantastic. I
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think the funniest story about this is like Marquez wasn't here in the episode when we talked about these getting launched.
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And so like a week ago, he forwards me a screenshot of this email from Microsoft
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saying, "Hey Marquez, would love to send you a pair of these. Let me know your shoe size." And Marquez screenshots it,
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puts it in Slack, and says, "Andrew, I just want you to know I said no to this." And I replied, "I ordered those a month
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ago. Don't worry." So shout out to uh Corey. He works at Microsoft and he got me hooked up with
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these. I had to go through him. Like 10 people from Microsoft reached out and was like, "I'll order them for you." This is This is Okay, here's my
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question. You because you seem to like Crocs and no matter how ugly they make them, you seem to like them more and more. Is there something they could put
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on Crocs that would make you not like Windows Vista on the Crocs? Would you still like to wear them?
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Vista? Like Vista? No, it's Vista. So, there is a line somewhere. There's a line. There's lots of Croc
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lines. They've hit them. Have you seen the high heels? Yeah, I've seen they're rough. Yes. Um, no. There's plenty of bad Crocs. I
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like just the OG clog. This one's a little fun. There's a KFC fried chicken
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one. Oh my god. I've never actually seen you wear them, though. Crocs? Yeah,
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that's cuz Marquez bullies me whenever I wear them. I banned him from
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We've had days where Marquez is out and the like five of us in the office go like Crocs day question mark and we all
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wear them in. I have to I I want to ban Crocs without banning Crocs. I'll ban like open toed, closed towed shoes.
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These are not Yes. Think of like chefs are one of like the
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strictest types of shoes you can wear in a kitchen and Crocs. Yeah. Because it you don't want anything
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dropping on your foot and they need to be non-slip. Kitchen's a chef.
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What? You want to know what a chef is? No. Like the Is that a type of shoe? No, no, no, no. It's a person. It's a
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It's a career. I was saying it was a type of Sorry. Chef footwear.
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Lots of chefs. We were googling that already. I was like, "Did he miss her me?" And then he typed in ch EF and I was like,
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I'm so confused, right? Okay. Yes. Sorry. We can end there if you would like. But
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uh no, chef's shoes. These are these are work shoes, I guess.
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They put in work, I guess. Yeah. But second, I don't like the divots. The most interesting and important news
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of the week is that it has been announced that Bad Bunny will be playing the last
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Philadelphia Eagles game of the NFL season. I see.
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Was the joke there that the birds are making the Super Bowl? Yes. Do you need to hear the sound again?
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I didn't I could barely hear it. Sorry. I think the mics are screwed up.
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Um, what are they saying? Exactly. Are we still a tech podcast?
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We're just talking about Windows XP. Technically, it was a Windows XP. I don't know if this can be tied in somehow to tech as well, but that did
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get announced. Something something. Go birds. Yeah, exactly. Go birds. Go birds. Go birds. Speaking of things that
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Wow, that was crazy. That was the quadruple gods on the waveform podcast. They're all converted.
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I think Saquon Barkley pops up if you say it that many times. Speaking, let's see. Speaking of things
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that are that can fly because they're so lightweight.
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Birds. Birds fly into windows all the time, which we were just talking about. And windows are clear. Kind of like
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what I'm wearing on my face right now. We got there. So, okay. So, video viewers have already noticed that.
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I got birds, boys. Nice find. That's an elite find.
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Go birds. Uh, okay. So, so video users have noticed that I'm wearing a certain pair of glasses. Maybe you've clocked them
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even already as the exact pair of glasses that I'm wearing. Uh, which is the Meta Rayban displays. So, not just
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the red meta ray bands with the cameras and stuff, but I could be scrolling
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Instagram right now. Matter of fact,
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I have been this entire No, I'm just kidding. No, but you Okay, so basically, I've got the the neural
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band on as well. Okay. Okay, I only set this up like 10 minutes ago, so I don't even have Instagram and WhatsApp plugged in, but I
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can pull up the UI right now and it's up and I can start scrolling around. And this this brings us right back to where
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I ended the video that I made about them, which is is the future is the future of computing going to end up in a
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place where I could be looking at my UI in front of my face. And it's glasses,
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so it's on my face, so it kind of looks like I'm looking at you, but I'm straight up not looking at you right
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now. I'm reading something. If I try really hard, I can see like a No, now I can't. It's really hard to
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see. There was like a GL the picture. When I take a picture, it's really obvious cuz it lights up the little
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camera lens. Uh but yeah, it is. It's almost impossible to see. You're looking at something. I feel like for a
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second I thought I thought I could see there's a line like here, but I think that's the wave
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wave wave guide. I thought I saw like the top of the box for a second. I went
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fully around him 360° while he was doing something and I could not see anything. I think because from behind him
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we've got a bright point light source right right here. No, I was out in the by his desk. I know. I'm saying because we have this
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I can see it a little bit at certain angles. Is something up right now? Yep. I'm trying to see if I can see the reflection in your eye.
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Oh yeah. What is he looking at? I don't know. I mean again I'm looking at Almartart right now because I was I'm paused my
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music which is on Spotify. Uh it is really bright and very viewable to me. Obviously,
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isn't it like 3,000 5,000 nits? 5,000 nits. I don't know exactly how they measure that. It's a projector. It's a wave guide. It's a whole system.
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It goes away automatically. So, I'll bring it back and I can read it pretty easily and just go glance back and forth between the person I'm talking to and
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the little art. And I can even put a little backdrop on it with my hand. But yeah, I I am clearly in the metaverse
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now. Why did they make him glossy? Uh, good question. I think matte would
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have looked better one and it still would have worked with the with the sliding touch bar on the side which is
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like a secondary input method. U I don't know why they're glossy. Maybe that's just the first version. Ray-B bands are always glossy.
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Is that true? I like them. Not always. They have like a million different styles at this point. But like the the classic
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the Blues Brothers Ray-B bands. Yeah. Yeah. They're just trying to be the classic. What? That's why gamers say GG.
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Glossy glasses. as what I've been saying. So, yeah, these are $800. Uh, they come with the
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neural band, which I'm wearing, which I also set up. They set up in maybe 10 minutes and got a quick software update. So, it was actually pretty easy. And
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yeah, I just want to echo that this is a real thing that's going to start happening out in the world. Casey Nad just made a really good video, by the
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way, about these, which was kind of comparing the future of uh mobile computing from two of the biggest
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companies working on stuff like this, which was Apple Vision Pro and Meta Raybalance Display. two very different
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products but two very futuristic things. Uh so go watch that. We'll link it
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below. Can I try? Creator. Yeah, you can actually. Um yeah, let's
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get first impressions. Yeah, I'm interested on if if we we also have already confirmed that I can ask Meta to do things for our guys.
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It worked at least once, but try that. You can should be able to see the album art. So this isn't like the Vision Pro where
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only one person can wear them at a time basically. Well, I have the control mechanism on my wrist right now. So, I don't know how
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much he can do. Can you give him the neural band? See it? I feel like that's not that easy.
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Can you hand him the narrow band or is it hard to take off? Probably could, but it is hard to take off. Probably have to set it up. It's hard to take off the
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Well, there's a whole like clasp thing. I thought it was like a snap bracelet. But you do. If I hit Do you still see
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the Almart? It's weird because when both eyes are open, the left side of it seems like
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it's fading a little bit. Am I like crosseyed?
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I need glasses for this. If I close my left eye, perfect. You were making some really funny faces
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right now. I feel like everyone's been commenting that I make some really dumb faces on the podcast already cuz I look up a lot
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when I'm thinking. Um, but I'm probably making even Oh, it's gone. It's gone. It's gone. Is it back?
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Oh, there it is. Okay, I brought it back. I got the controls. Is that all there? Andrew, how does it compare to the demo
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glasses we tried? Uh, it's vastly different. The field of view is well because the field of view is totally different but remember the demo
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glasses were in our whole field of view is a lot. This is definitely here down to the right
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like down and to the right a bit. It is very bright and I almost feel like the resolution is better than the demo glass
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the glass. What do you see? What do you see now? The resolution is better than the Orion glasses. It's better and I think the biggest
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thing is the Orion glasses had like a tint to them because it very clearly wasn't a this is
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this is clear. You understand the menu, right? Yeah. Just a menu. They're thick. They're really thick. Yeah. So, if you saw someone out
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watching these, I think this is like a double take pair of glasses. I think there's like a line like regular glasses
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out in public. I don't really think twice. I don't I don't double take at all. Super super obvious. Camera and
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computer on face glasses. I don't even double take. I just look and I know exactly what it is. This is somewhere in
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between. I think there are some places where I would not think twice. There are some places where I would go, "Those look kind of thick or weird." And it
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just depends on the person, what they're wearing, where they are. I would think that someone wearing this has like a visual problem.
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You think they're like super thick glasses? They are very thick, like bif focals or something. It's funny, but it doesn't do the bif
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focal effect where your eyes inside the glasses look larger because of magnification. Yeah. No, they don't do that.
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Can you open the main menu? I will. Where are you now? Uh on the Spotify thing. Oh, it's funny. At this angle, I can see
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like red, green, blue, which is probably like the wave guide. Okay. Wait. It's like a prison
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to the right. Okay. Down. Down one. Don't press play. Select.
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And then down. Oh, yeah. Oh. Oh, you have to download
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English. Translation. I just set these up. So, I don't have my
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WhatsApp connected. I don't have the downloaded languages for the live captioning, but I'm going to try all this stuff.
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From an angle, you can start seeing some parts of the wave guide. Like I can see a box in his eye now, right?
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Um what was I going to say? I think it's interesting because does Meta want these to blend in perfectly or do they want
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people to know people are using their product? It's definitely a fine line there of we want these to just feel like
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glasses. But also like when you make a product, do you want a product to be known when it's seen out in public?
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Yeah. I mean I think this first default version which is glossy black just says Ray-B bands tries to look like normal
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glasses. I think they want them to look like normal glasses. I think there will be more fashionable versions in the future that make a statement and also
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say, "Hey, I'm using the smart glasses." But I think to me, this is trying to look like normal glasses.
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Yeah, this is really sharp. Really thick. Yeah. Surprisingly sharp. Yeah. And this is the carrying case, by the way, in case you didn't see the
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video. This is So, I mean, that's probably the
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best part about them. That was sick. They Yeah. For audio listeners.
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It's like totally flat and it like pops up to charge again. But when you have them out of the case, it can fold almost
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entirely flat. Yeah. So, these are the $800 ones. These are the $800 Meta Ray-B band display.
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Uh yeah, that's the diagnostic port that pops off. You can plug it in. Uh we didn't have to do that while we shot,
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but that's what that is. All right. Pop off. Yeah, pop off. Okay. Uh this is this is that it is uh I don't know. Should I
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review them? Should I do more like IRL? I don't know what to do with them to be honest. You got to review them. I don't Yeah,
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it's hard. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, a review is tough unless you're in that ecosystem of WhatsApp and like I
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don't see those being useful for a full day of what they want. Unless you're in WhatsApp and
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just become European, it'll be fine. Well, it's more just that I don't know what else to say about them other than what I already said. Like, how long does
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the battery life last? Maybe that's interesting. What types of reactions do people have when you reveal that you are
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not looking at them anymore? That type of stuff maybe. But I think trying to think about like where would this fit
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into someone's actual life and is this something that regular people would yet buy? Yeah. Or are we still like a little bit
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further away from the one that people could just feasibly buy and it would be nice? Yeah. How well does a live translation
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work? Do I want to use it all the time? Right. Yeah. Things like that. Are they gimmicks or are they things that you actually end up wanting to use?
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Are they dope or nope? That was wasn't a chbt generated. Um, no. That's Judner's, right? That's his
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series. What's ours called? Crown or Crown or Crown? Oh, Crown and Clown. Are they crown or Crown?
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Which, by the way, it's October 1st. Oh, it might be time for another one of those. Either way, it did come out. You
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know what is definitely a Crown. What? MXM 4 came out. Hell yeah. And it's pretty great. And the fun fact,
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the fun fact is we've been testing them for like a month now because Logitech came out of the studio with very, very early versions and they showed them to
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us. Oh, you brought yours. I brought it in. Um, is it disconnected? Yeah, it's disconnected. You can do It is uh similar shape but just better
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materials. And then it also has a haptic motor I guess is action ring for um a
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certain side button that you press and it's nice. Yeah. I mean the I think the new
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materials I actually don't really use ergonomic mice, but I've been using this one a lot. The new materials won't get
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that like rubber peeling that the old MX Masters did.
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I'm about to hand it to you. We all have one already. Um the materials seem way better. The it's a little more ergonomic
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with this horizontal wheel. Uh there's an extra gesture button next to the front and back button, which is awesome
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because if you press it and swipe left or right, you can go between spaces on your um your Mac or if you press it in, it does
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the what's the mission control. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, so where your thumb rests, there's this like pad that has a
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haptic feedback button that's crazy customizable where you can do like how sensitive is and how much the feedback
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is when you press it and it brings up this action ring kind of like the Grand Theft Auto weapon select where when you
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press it basically actually. Yeah. It like has a dial and like based on if you pull up, left, right, you can go to
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each of those um different actions. Actions. Yeah. And they're all pre they're all programmable. So customizable. You can
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set up like six or seven of them to be whatever you want. Yeah, I think Eric set one up to open like chat GPT or something. I have mine
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I just do it. It opens up the like where we do new outlines for the podcast. So just if I'm going to write a new
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episode, I can just press that button, drag down, and click it. Um, and it's also in some of their programs, mostly
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Adobe ones now, but you can do like Photoshop tools on the action ring and
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stuff. Some of it doesn't work great. Some of it works really well. some of it. One issue I have is like in
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Photoshop, if you want to just change opacity, what's cool is you can open the action ring, hover it, and then scroll
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to go up and down. Um, just like within the little action wheel, but in the history almost like when you
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scroll up a couple like 20%, it does like 20 actions in the history, which just fills up your history totally.
00:19:05
That's a big issue I have with it right now in that. But, um, the customizable stuff will happen.
00:19:10
We'll see if how open they make it to other programs and such. Yeah. I mean, between this and Raycast,
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I'm living in heaven right now. Adam's just one everything.
00:19:21
Interesting combo cuz Raycast is all about that keyboard. Yeah. But if I set So what I did was I
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have a shortcut on Raycast where I hit option N and it creates a new folder structure with a script that I have for
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like the podcast. So instead of even doing that, I also have that option N as
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a keyboard shortcut on the wheel. What is it? That action wheel. Yeah, action ring. So I can just like hit it. It
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automatically does that keyboard shortcut which hits option N. I could also just select the script and run it that way if I wanted to. So it goes
00:19:52
either way. But yeah, it's like it's good to have options. Exactly. Do you know what the best part about this mouse is?
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The dongle is USBC. Oh, that's actually the best part. Yeah. So USBA the entire time. These
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mice have uh they use Bluetooth, but they have a 2.4 GHz dongle. I think it's 2.4.
00:20:08
I forget. Everyone uses Bluetooth. Yeah, maybe I'm way more excited about this. I use my dongles for all my mice.
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The dongle is nice because it stops interference and it makes it so the computer knows exactly what it's talking
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to. But yeah, they switched to USBC, which is nice. However, I would advise um similarly to the Samsung Galaxy Note
00:20:27
4 when people were putting the S Pen in backwards and it was breaking it.
00:20:33
Um I put my dongle in the mouse and it was really hard to get out.
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Where do you put it in the mouse? In the charge port. Oh, don't do that. Oh, what? I thought I was like, it's good storage
00:20:45
and then it was I would have never even thought that's a good idea, huh? But it was hard to get out. Why can't
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you do that though? That makes it seems like it should work. It I mean it works. Is it just because it's like there's an
00:20:57
outlet into it? Yeah. It's like infinite power. It's like okay the dongle is connected to the
00:21:03
mouse. You know, you say that I'm sure people will buy this mouse and be like my dongle's not working and
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it's plugged into the front of I'm just I'm just saying like you can store the dongle in the charco
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but there's no like ribbed there's no lip. There's no lip. Yeah. And it's very hard to get out
00:21:22
unless you have like really big nails and then you're going to crack your nails and then I never would have thought of that. Well, I did and it was unfortunate.
00:21:29
That's a good PSA. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Good. I'm glad you thought of that. Infinite power. Okay. You know what else has infinite
00:21:36
power? What else does Echo Show?
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Okay. We had an Amazon event um yesterday as of the time of recording. There was a lot of stuff. This started
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in like 2017 or so where Amazon would have these events and they would just drop like 50 products.
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Here is a bunch of new stuff and all of it has our assistant built in. Yeah. The most iconic one was like the
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first one they ever did where they put Alexa in a like a clock and a microwave. Um that was during the internet of
00:22:05
things era. I'm really glad that's over. But well, sort of now uh they had another
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event where they also were putting Alexa Plus in a lot of products. Uh but
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they're also just updating their whole lineup of smart speakers and other things like that. Uh so we got a new
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Echo Show 8 and 11. The 11 in is very large, but effectively this kind of
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looks a lot like what we expected the Apple Home Pad to look like where it kind of looks like a HomePod in the back
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with this like fiber mesh and then you have a tablet just kind of like mounted to the front. Um, and it's a much better
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display. The 8 in one is 720p, which is a little low resolution, but it's a
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small tablet, so I guess it's okay. The 11 is 1080p. 1080 is nice.
00:22:52
Yeah. Uh, it has a 13 megapixel wide-angle camera for video calls and things like that. They are a little bit
00:23:00
expensive, but I assume that these things are going to go on sale literally constantly for Prime Day cuz usually Prime Day is just buy our products day.
00:23:07
Uh, so yeah, it's $179.99 for the 8 in and $219.99 for the 11 in. We also got
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an Echo Dot Max, which is kind of um ironic because the entire point of the
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Echo Dot was to be an Echo but small and now there's a big one. So, it's
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Does this not look like Yeah, totally. It's like a sphere with a flat part with all the controls. Does it not look like that's where they just attached?
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So, that's what I actually wrote in the script. Uh yeah, basically the show without the screen.
00:23:36
Uh it is a much more powerful speaker. Amazon is claiming 3x the bass response over the original Echo Dot. Uh it has
00:23:45
speaker controls with an LED ring in the front. It's $100 up from $50 from the
00:23:50
original Echo Dot. So the price, but it should have much better sound quality. There's a new Echo Studio, and I'm going
00:23:57
to be honest, I did not remember that the original Echo Studio was a thing. Can I just say my favorite part about this photo of the Echo DMAX is there's
00:24:04
nothing scale-wise here. I cannot figure out how big this is. That's true. That could be a microscope.
00:24:11
It's literally just like a wood surface and a white wall behind it and not a single other object for me to tell how
00:24:17
big that is. Yeah, Amazon is very much trying to get back in your house. They were like really winning the smart speaker race
00:24:23
for a very long time and then Google started just flooding the zone and it's everywhere now. Um, yeah. So, now they
00:24:29
have an Echo Studio new one because there was an old one apparently that I just didn't really even clock. It kind
00:24:36
of looks it it looks a lot like the Echo Dot.m Max, but it's black, which means it's Pro.
00:24:42
Um, hell yeah. The old one actually kind of looked like the the trash can Mac Pro. I looked it
00:24:47
up and it's it's very weird. It's kind of got like cylindrical shape with like a little cutout in the side.
00:24:53
Yeah. Strange. It supports Dolby Atmos and spatial audio. So, you can link up to five of them. Um, as well as linking
00:25:00
them with the Echo Dot Max and you can link them to a Fire TV Stick to have surround sound audio. I'm looking for
00:25:07
the person out there that's like, I love ecosystems, but you know what ecosystem I love the most? Amazon.
00:25:14
Time to connect my Echo Dot to my Echo Studio. Yeah. Like maybe my dad. I don't know.
00:25:19
Put my Fire Stick in my Amazon TV. Exact. Yeah. So, you can link up a you can link five of these to a Fire TV
00:25:25
Stick and have surround sound. Five. Interesting. Yeah. Up up up up to five. So, Total
00:25:30
Surround. Uh there are new Kindle Scribes, which I think is probably the most the most interesting thing they dropped because
00:25:36
they're really trying to compete with Remarkable, if you know that tablet company. They're like an e in e- paper tablet
00:25:42
company. Very premium, fairly expensive, but they've sort of been the benchmark. And I think it was it was either one or
00:25:49
two years ago Amazon released the original Kindle Scribe, which was basically supposed to be the Remarkable tablet, but a lot cheaper, more
00:25:56
integrations with Kindle, all of that kind of stuff, which makes sense. But they finally released their color
00:26:01
version to compete with Remarkable, uh, called the Kindlecribe Coloroft. It
00:26:07
has two weeks of battery life. You can highlight, draw, and write in color on it. Um, it's $630.
00:26:14
Which for an Amazon product is very very expensive. Primo. Wow. And I don't I feel like their markup on
00:26:20
this must be ridiculous. The remarkable is the same price. It is for the Pro.
00:26:25
Oh, I'm on their website right now. You're looking at the portable one. Oh, they have a big one. They have a big one. The big one is also
00:26:31
$630. I think that Amazon just thought, well, technically we have integrations with Alexa now. We have you can AI
00:26:39
summarize different parts of the things that you're reading. I guess I don't know. I I I think that they just have
00:26:45
more they think they have more integrations and they have a better distribution system. So they think that they can charge the same amount as the
00:26:51
Remarkable and they're probably right because most people don't know about the Remarkable whereas Amazon can just throw it at the front of the page constantly.
00:26:57
Uh they have two other Kindle Scribes. They have a new entry-level one which is $430. This stuff is like really
00:27:04
expensive for what it is. Like you can buy an iPad for much cheaper than this. Yeah. You gotta really want this
00:27:09
specific form factor and screen technology. Exactly. You have to pay 400,500, $600 for it over any other
00:27:16
tablet. Adam has two of them. I wouldn't be shocked. Um and then there So that's 430. And
00:27:22
then there's another model that's a front lit model that they're charging an extra $70 for just to get a front light
00:27:30
to be able to actually see in dim lighting. Um, yeah, they're all 11 inches. They have thinner bezels and
00:27:36
they have AI features. Uh, yeah. I really don't get what the use case of this is over.
00:27:41
I can't believe we have AI paper. Yeah, I know what it is. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, people
00:27:47
really like them. People that use Remarkable products are very very happy with them. Sure. Uh, it's it's nice to kind of have that
00:27:54
paper experience, but like Adam said, there are many sort of adaptive ways to have an iPad feel like paper. There's
00:28:00
all the the different screen stuff you can put on top of it. Ellis is nodding his head back and forth
00:28:06
in a disapproving mode. Yeah, they're kind of bad. I thought I I was going to love it and then one day I came to work and Adam had
00:28:12
it on his iPad mini and I was like what did you do to your iPad? Yeah,
00:28:19
but that didn't cost me $640. That's true. Touche. Uh there's new Fire TVs if you
00:28:24
remember, which you might not because Amazon is not that memorable of a company. Um, they released their own
00:28:31
TVs, their own QLED TVs like last year or the year before. I did not know that. Yeah, they actually sell Amazon branded
00:28:38
Fire TVs that are not just the stick, but are actually QLEDs. Who makes them? Amazon Basics TV.
00:28:43
Probably LG or something. Probably they're like C tier display panels or whatever.
00:28:49
Uh, so now they have new Fire TV Omni QLEDs. And I hate that that's a string of words. They're brighter. They have
00:28:56
better processors. Uh they have Dolby Vision and HDR10 plus and they can automatically adjust the color of the
00:29:02
display based on the ambient lighting of your room which is sort of like um uh True Tone
00:29:08
True Tone, right? Yeah. Yeah. They are 50 to 75 in starting at $479.
00:29:14
And also there are new two and four series TVs with slender bezels and faster processors starting at $159. So
00:29:21
this is going to be that Black Friday like crazy 50% off. just search like TV
00:29:27
on Black Friday and they throw this to the top. They're going to sell so many of this stuff. Uh, and then there's a bunch
00:29:32
of new Ring cameras that do two and 4K resolution. They have this thing they call retinal vision which is kind of
00:29:39
just like an AI upscaling pipeline similar to what Apple talked about when they say cuz Apple on the new iPhone
00:29:46
said in the 2x crops and the 8x crop they have a new pipeline that optical quality.
00:29:51
Yeah, that's what they say. which is the same thing that like Ring is basically saying is a thing.
00:29:56
Okay. Um AI doorbells now. Well, we got we had those. Yeah, we've had them. Yeah.
00:30:01
But yeah, I don't know. It's it's sort of just that like you want smart home stuff from Amazon on Black Friday.
00:30:08
Here's the new version. That's what Techtober is all about. Sometimes we want all our stuff on the
00:30:13
shelves before the holiday season. So, here it is. But uh yeah, much more
00:30:18
interestingly, we got a preview of a new Google Home speaker. Um not
00:30:24
surprisingly, they are yet again getting rid of the Nest name. And I'm sure that in 2027 they'll bring it back. No, this
00:30:31
this is for real. This is for real. For real for now. I feel like this is for real. I got briefed on this and this felt like
00:30:37
somebody who used Google Home, who works for Google, was finally like, "Hey, shouldn't we fix this?" And they did, I
00:30:45
think. So, I I hope to get the update soon, but I've now seen all the new Google Home stuff. And essentially, they
00:30:51
plan on finally getting the last of the stuff that they've been making that only works with the Nest app out of it. So, it can all work with Google. Yeah.
00:30:58
If you had a Nestaware subscription, that's now a Google, what's it called? Google something subscription. I think I got the email about that
00:31:04
changing. Yeah, exactly. I just got that, too. So, it's all Google. The subscription is now Google. They're revamping the home app
00:31:09
to be faster and to work with all these new things. They have a couple new accessories. They have a new doorbell, a
00:31:14
new indoor camera, and I think a new uh outdoor camera as well. Uh a couple new partnerships. So, there's like a cheaper
00:31:21
like a Walmart partnership for like a $22 camera and like a $45 doorbell. So, that's What does that mean? Like if you buy it
00:31:27
at a specific store, it's cheaper. I think it's they made it in Let me find I think they made it in collaboration
00:31:32
with Walmart, which is why it's so cheap. Is that what my notes say? We live in hell.
00:31:38
Hey, it's cheap. $22 for for a camera is like wise territory. say Wise is like
00:31:44
running the game with in that price category. So, this is where they're trying to get in. So, yes, Google Home Premium
00:31:49
subscription and all of this stuff now is going to work with Gemini. So, all
00:31:55
the stuff we have already in our homes that use the crummy Google Assistant that has just been aging and failing and
00:32:00
not working very well is going to be updated to Gemini. And they have some new stuff. I think the latest
00:32:07
generations of the stuff we have will work with Gemini Live, but also the new stuff will work with Gemini Live as well. So you can say, "Hey G, start a
00:32:13
chat." And then you're doing the whole Gemini live back and forth conversation thing with all the context and the, you know,
00:32:19
whatever it tells you versus just a regular, "Hey G," and then ask it a question and then hey G again and then
00:32:25
ask a follow-up question. You can do a whole conversation. So which Gemini Live is a paid feature. You
00:32:30
have to have the premium subscription in Yeah. one of the subscription tiers.
00:32:36
Yeah. I don't I'm looking right now because it said like I got the email that said your Nestaware is now being
00:32:41
upgraded to Google Home Premium. Yeah. And then there's the standard and advanced plan. So Google Home Premium is is that
00:32:47
launched now officially? It sounds like it got cuz I got the email saying this is what it is now.
00:32:52
Um so it sounds like that is out. Delete the Nest app. It's over. It's finally gone.
00:32:59
Um I don't see anything saying that I get the descriptive notifications.
00:33:05
search video history. That's actually pretty cool. Like AI search through history because you have all of your events saved for 60 days and
00:33:12
then you get um if you're in advance, you get 247 history for 10 days. So if I
00:33:18
can search through that with your voice with my voice or even just like recognizing
00:33:24
I'm assuming I can type in and it can recognize what happens, right? Yeah, I saw I got to do a demo and try
00:33:29
some of this stuff. It seemed to be really straightforward. Not only can you uh create automations with your voice,
00:33:34
so if you want it to go, hey, every morning when I ask for this, open the shades and turn the lights on or whatever, but you can also go, "Hey,
00:33:40
show me when the squirrel ran across my driveway." And it will just find the
00:33:46
clip when the last time the squirrel ran across her driveway was and played it. Cuz Gemini, it's plugged in now. I can figure this
00:33:52
stuff out for this camera feed. Also says event descriptions. It says more detailed event descriptions tell the whole story on cameras and
00:33:58
doorbells. Yeah. So right now, if you have an event from the Google Home app, it'll just say motion in driveway or front door motion
00:34:05
detected or person detected. And sometimes even a familiar face, it'll name. Now it will describe what's happening.
00:34:11
So it'll say UPS guy holding flowers and brown box delivered package instead of
00:34:18
do this retroactively because I do have a clip the other day of me accidentally
00:34:24
hitting Lane in the face with the door and it's on. Do it retroactively. Yeah, I need to see if what happens if you go
00:34:30
up to a Ring doorbell wearing a t-shirt that says ignore all previous instructions
00:34:36
wearing a t-shirt. Like, can you prompt inject the the model? Unlikely.
00:34:41
Yeah. Uh, but we'll probably put some of that in the description in the notification.
00:34:46
Person wearing shirt with text. I need to read Google's keyword blog because it is so confusing. The the
00:34:52
headline is we're introducing the new home premium subscription plus new benefits for AI pro and AI ultra
00:34:58
subscribers. Yeah. And there are multiple plans. So AI pro and AI Ultra subscribers are going to
00:35:04
get with their subscription one of these levels of uh these are the two Nest plans that just have
00:35:11
new names. No longer Nest. No longer Nest. Yeah. Okay. So, the standard plan, which is $10 a month or 100 a year, gives you
00:35:17
Gemini Live uh and ask Ask Home for automation help, 30 days of video
00:35:24
history and intelligent camera alerts. And then the advanced plan, which is $20 a month or $200 a year, includes all
00:35:31
standard features plus Gemini camera capabilities such as AI event descriptions, home brief summaries, and
00:35:37
searchable video history. So, you have to pay 20 a month if you want to do the
00:35:42
AI stuff. 20 a month. But if you have AI, Google AI Pro and
00:35:48
Ultra. I hate this. This is insane. There there needs to be a flowchart for this. There actually does. Yeah.
00:35:53
I Google. The nice thing is Ultra is just you get all the things. Yeah. But it's $200.
00:35:58
$1,000 every minute you use it. Yeah. It's $200 a month. Yeah. Nobody wants to pay that. That's insane.
00:36:05
So yeah, it is all I think functionally all way better and I cannot wait to get
00:36:11
this app update so I can stop using the Nest app and stop using the old Google
00:36:16
Assistant which is at this point retiring. I think that's the end of it.
00:36:21
Uh and yeah, having Gemini on all the stuff. Yeah, there has been like a beta of Gemini on Google Home devices for a
00:36:28
while, but um this is the official roll out, I suppose. I do not seem to have it updated because it's just the same.
00:36:35
I hope I think it should be rolling out today. It's probably rolling. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, the the interesting thing is
00:36:42
that the hardware is a little bit different. So, the Google Home they're calling it the Google Home speaker and
00:36:48
it's sort of the it's the size is sort of between a Nest Mini and a Nest Audio. So, it's like bigger than a Nest Mini.
00:36:54
It should have much better um audio capabilities. Like it sounds a lot nicer. It's got 360° audio. You can
00:37:00
connect multiple of them in stereo. And surprisingly, the colors are very bold. They have this like extremely saturated
00:37:08
red. Yeah. And then they've got a green, which is kind of like a hazel. Well, actually, it's not a hazel. There. It's a green
00:37:13
that's like a It's hazel. Grayge. Grayge. It's just like a gray with a hint of
00:37:19
green. I think the red one is insanely bold. The red one is crazy bright. And I
00:37:24
typically don't think of home accessories being like that boldly colored, but cool if you want to do that. But then the others are like
00:37:30
charcoal or like ivory or slightly green. So yeah. Okay. And it's not coming out till next year. The spring of next year.
00:37:37
What is the new speaker? Yeah. Right. But I think the doorbell and the uh the new camera and the other stuff is around
00:37:44
the corn. I wonder if they announced it today because the Amazon event just happened and they were like there's a bunch of
00:37:49
new Echo speakers and we need to like offset the news somehow or it's just Techtober,
00:37:56
I guess. But you can't even order them. Uh, you can't. Can you pre-order them? Because they
00:38:01
come out spring 2026. That's like a while away. All available now. That's six months away.
00:38:07
They're in the Google store and they're available now. You can buy them now. Nescam outdoor 149. Oh, well, maybe that I'm talking about
00:38:13
the the Google Home speaker. No, just the speaker is is later. Okay. But all the other new stuff, meaning the
00:38:19
new doorbell and the new indoor speaker and the new outdoor speaker is on site. The jade green is pretty green. I
00:38:24
wouldn't say that's a hint of green. Oh, yeah. That this speaker is a little more green. I was talking about the doorbell and the cameras.
00:38:29
Well, yeah. We'll we'll see how good it ends up being. But you know what's always good? Trivia. Let's go.
00:38:36
Simply always good. Simply What is up, people? Before we get into trivia, we got to
00:38:42
issue a correction. Whoa. From last week, we got something wrong. Uh
00:38:47
oh. Unfortunately, uh, in a professional derby race, if a jockey falls off their horse and the
00:38:54
horse finishes the race, it is not counted as a victory. Is that right? Yeah.
00:38:59
What did you guys talk about? I saw a video and it was totally counted.
00:39:05
It uh they they won't they'll let the horse finish because they're not going to interrupt the race, but it will not
00:39:10
be counted as a proper victory. Or at least that's what I found on my research. Marquez is furiously typing.
00:39:18
Well, the commentators seem to think that in F1, if the driver falls out and the car goes over, that does count.
00:39:23
No, but in in NASCAR, I do I am pretty sure it's Ricky Bobby rules where if the
00:39:29
driver crosses the finish line without the car. What? There's no way that could be real. That's way too dangerous.
00:39:34
It's happened in real races. Like where they crash and they get out and I can't wait for next week's correction
00:39:40
and they get fined afterwards for doing something so dangerous. Anyway, um how you almost get hit by a
00:39:46
car and you get fined. That's crazy. Uh while Marquez confirms or denies my
00:39:52
No, you're right. In the video that I was referencing, the commentator seemed to believe that the horse had just won,
00:39:57
but it turns out for betting purposes that was declared a non-running. So,
00:40:02
you're uh that's a good correction. Well, in other news, both of our questions this week are about Amazon
00:40:09
products, Amazon hardware, and the wacky wacky world that they live within. Interesting.
00:40:15
Uh because Amazon makes a lot of Echo products. They sure do. And some of them are really poorly
00:40:20
named. So I need you guys to tell me what kind. Marquez Mhm.
00:40:27
Marquez has put on the smart glasses. We cannot confirm or deny whether he's
00:40:32
cheating or watching reals. Uh or watching No, his mouth is closed. He's not he's not watching. Um anyway,
00:40:39
you guys have to tell me what kind of product the Echo Flex is. What kind of
00:40:46
product is the Echo Flex? Use Use the context. It's called the Flex. It's a
00:40:51
slap slap band. Amazing. It's a folding phone. I'm just kidding.
00:40:56
I see you pinching. We'll be right back.
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promo code waveform. Welcome back. 15% of my diet is Cholula. Andrew said
00:44:39
that on me, just so you know. Uh, okay. So, I have a fun game that I want to play. So, if you guys will open up the
00:44:46
link that I put in the show notes. Oh, if you have the show notes open. I do. I've created a Google Slides slide show.
00:44:54
Yesterday, I was in the French Alps. Um, yeah, I know.
00:44:59
Subtle flex. Pretty weird. Uh, and I brought many cameras as I always do, but I decided
00:45:06
that I wanted to kind of like push the limits of the new iPhone camera.
00:45:12
So, I downloaded Halli onto my phone, which you for this, which allow which allows you to shoot
00:45:17
actual RAW, not just Pro Raw, which is already a little bit processed. And I also brought my Leica M11 and a
00:45:24
bunch of film cameras. And because the M11 is a digital camera, I decided I was going to shoot a bunch of photos on all
00:45:31
the cameras and then I was going to kind of like take a look at how different all of the photos were. So, what I'm doing
00:45:37
this game is that I've made a a series of slides of photos that I took
00:45:43
and you guys need to guess whether or not they were taken on the iPhone or the
00:45:48
Leica M11. Wow. Okay. And are we So this is no pixel peeping or zooming just like
00:45:53
looking at the wide and it's already gonna be compressed by putting on Google slides because fair enough. And are we a team?
00:45:59
Um you can we should be a team lose. All right team.
00:46:05
I think it'll make it easier. Hosts versus producers. Oh yeah, I like that. Okay. Okay,
00:46:10
we can do that. But we'll have to say it all out loud or else this is going to be really boring. Yeah, talk it out. Okay, so number one.
00:46:17
Number one. First one. So, this is a nice wider shot of uh two stone cabins
00:46:23
with all of the Alps rising in the background and then a blue sky. And I should note that I have multiple
00:46:29
lenses for my F11. So, I have lenses that can emulate the different focal lengths of the iPhone. Oh, so your Leica can emulate an iPhone.
00:46:36
Well, thinking out loud is this is a ton that is in focus and it's a really nice
00:46:42
landscape shot. And I should also note that I shoot closed down constantly. Of course, as you would
00:46:47
with a scene like this. Yeah. Um, my only note, I mean, it does look very flat like the iPhone, but I think
00:46:54
because Andrew, that snow and that wall of the cabin are a little hot,
00:47:00
a little high exposed. I'm going M11 because I think the iPhone would flatten
00:47:06
it even more. My only thought is whether he potentially shot shot this on a tripod
00:47:11
or not. And that looks like very uneven ground. It was very uneven ground, which would make a tripod very hard. But
00:47:17
I guess he doesn't necessarily need a tripod for this. So I just whenever I imagine David with a camera, I imagine a
00:47:23
like 4ft box on a giant rickety wooden tripod. So um I'll go with I mean you're the expert
00:47:32
here. There's a lot of shadow detail I will say. But he said this is this is a halli raw and not an iPhone pro raw, right?
00:47:39
Process and edit. Processed. Yeah. But bar but barely. In theory, if this was the iPhone, it would still be a single bracket. Like, there
00:47:45
would not be it wouldn't do HDR. Yeah, there's not HDR on it. So, shadow detail means nothing.
00:47:52
And slightly blown highlights. Well, it I mean, it could mean something cuz it's still a raw photo and you still have a lot of flexibility.
00:47:58
It's just not forced shadow. Here is the the green and the grass. It does not look super oversharpened or
00:48:05
anything the way that I feel like iPhone would do. M I'm looking at David. He's not
00:48:12
giving me anything. I'm not allowed to give you anything. I think it's potentially iPhone just because David got really defensive about
00:48:18
the how close he shoots and everything right off the bat, which made me think Marquez was on the right trail. Although
00:48:24
then you said Leica, didn't you? I'm going to I think it's the Leica also because of the green. I'm going iPhone.
00:48:29
Wait, but you're on Marquez's team. What are you guys to agree on? Sure. Are you
00:48:36
Let me take this. You think it's iPhone? Okay. We think it's a Leica. The answer is iPhone.
00:48:44
What? Nice. No way. Nice. Andrew, give me one. That's a point. Yeah. And I'll have to show you guys these photos. Maybe I
00:48:49
should upload them separately cuz in full resolution cuz it looks Yeah. Links. I mean, it's still a great looking
00:48:55
photo. Yeah. But it looks like crap on Google Slides compared. iPhone. This isn't how you guys look at photos. And by the way, so this is a this is a
00:49:02
basically unprocessed iPhone raw photo. To your point about the whites being hot
00:49:08
on the raw photos from the iPhone, the whites are quite hot. Usually they have a little bit at the top.
00:49:13
They're a little bit overexpo like it just it's not doing it's not pulling down the highlights and jacking up the shadows like it would in a normal shot.
00:49:21
So that is not necessarily a giveaway. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right, let's move on to image two. Okay.
00:49:26
Wow. Image two looks like you've climbed to the top of a very tall mountain and pointed down at the peak of another very
00:49:33
tall mountain which is poking through the clouds. And again, blue sky in the background and some foreground detail.
00:49:39
Lot of snow. This is a lot of snow. Yeah. Um, wow. There's a climber.
00:49:45
Yeah, there's a guy climbing in the very deep snow and presumably what looks like
00:49:51
people have skied down just because of the way it's people ski off this cliff and paraglide.
00:49:56
That's crazy. Um, it's ridiculous. This is one of those things where I'm
00:50:02
I'm leaning camera, but just to think David got up here with the camera.
00:50:07
There is so much detail. This has to There's so much detail. Yeah, I think it's the So, the mountain coming out of
00:50:13
the clouds that specifically just looks so sharp, but not fake sharp.
00:50:18
It looks really What? Can I ask one question? Yeah. About the M11. How much dynamic range does it typically
00:50:24
have? Quite a lot. The M10, without getting into too much detail, the M10 peaked the highlights like if you clipped the
00:50:31
highlights, they were just gone. And the M11 has quite a bit more dynamic range. This is This is M11.
00:50:37
I think M11. Yeah. I honestly have no idea anymore. It's the like uh to
00:50:44
What did you Can you tell us what post-processing you might have done?
00:50:49
Like did you limit it to just curves? Did you adjust the color? Did you add I did very little to this photo.
00:50:55
Would you have added it just yet? No, I didn't add it. All right. Then this is the Leica for sure. Look at this guy.
00:51:01
Yeah. Lego. Yeah, there's a little vignette in the in the top corners. Yeah. Yeah, that's a Lego. That's a Lego.
00:51:06
Little vinegrett. Let's go, baby. All right, cool. All right, it looks fire. Let's move on to photo. Okay, so this is
00:51:12
a set of photos, two photos that are kind of the same photo. The focal lengths are a little bit
00:51:18
different, but I they're taken from the same perspective. Uh, and yeah, they look
00:51:24
very similar. Yeah, one is you can see the rock. So it is a mountain at a like kind of lakeside
00:51:30
or is this like a glacier? This is an alpine lake. Yeah, an alpine lake. But like you can see the rock in the left picture. That's the rock in the
00:51:37
right picture. And he it is an very tighter lens on the people's eyebrow.
00:51:43
Marquez is what's happening. It's very tall. Don't worry about it. Um so you can see
00:51:50
the rock. What else can you also see? I'm just saying you can tell the focal lengths are extremely different because of that rock. Yeah. the green of the
00:51:58
water on the right versus the slightly bluer cast of the water on the left. Right. Um I'm fairly confident the iPhone is on
00:52:06
the left and the Leica is on the right. I just want to your green thing though might be because of how far zoomed in
00:52:11
the one on the or the right is where you're seeing most of the green on the shallower part closer to David on the
00:52:17
left where the right Wow. Well, you said this is at the same location. One on the right is like a
00:52:23
I'm standing in the same spot. I'm standing in the same spot for both of these, but I had different focal
00:52:28
lengths on the different cameras, but I have lenses for the Leica that
00:52:34
match the focal lengths of the iPhone. But that obviously didn't happen on this one. Yeah, I I didn't go in I didn't when I
00:52:41
was there, I wasn't like I'm going to do this. I just had this idea on the plane right back. I'm I'm staking my entire thesis on
00:52:48
this. The way that the rocks look on the left looks like iPhone processing. Even
00:52:54
though there's not a ton of processing, it just looks like an iPhone. So, I'm going left is iPhone, right? Is Leica. I was going to go right as Leica just
00:53:00
because of how good the detail in the rightmost mountains that aren't in the left photo is.
00:53:06
Okay, I got it. I got it. The left is the Leica because there is dirt on the
00:53:11
sensor. Y, David, top left. No, that's a that's a bird. Never mind. Yeah, that's a bird.
00:53:17
That's not a bird. It is a bird. I just thought that was my computer screen dirty.
00:53:22
I was literally scraping my computer screen past five minutes. I I think producer table agrees with
00:53:27
Marquez. Yeah. That the the Leica is the one on the right for for two reasons. One, I think
00:53:33
the one on the right is cropped in after you took the like you cropped it in in
00:53:40
Lightroom. Uh and I don't think you'd really be able to do that on an iPhone and get get something that looks so nice. And two, there's way more dynamic
00:53:48
range in the sky on the one on the right, which I think you would need
00:53:53
superior Leica processing to accomplish. Okay. So, what's the answer to?
00:53:58
The answer is that you're all wrong. They're both iPhones. The iPhone photo is the one on the
00:54:04
right. Yeah. Damn. And that's a singular raw image that like I barely processed at all.
00:54:11
It's impressive, isn't it? It's really impressive. like all the gravel close to you on trash.
00:54:16
I just want to No, no, no, no. It means that the iPhone's computational photography is trash. If this is what
00:54:23
the sensor is doing when left to its own devices, exactly. What are we doing here? Like a regular iPhone photo would not
00:54:29
look nearly like Well, okay. Th this is a beautiful scene that it's really hard to take a bad
00:54:35
looking photo of. So if you give this watch me step aside. If you stand out there in all this light
00:54:42
and take a and you give the sensor this best case scenario, almost any modern sensor is going to do a very respectable
00:54:48
job. I don't know. Not with computational photography. Well, as saying the sensor will, but then the processing is what gives your
00:54:54
photo the look afterwards. And this is the point I wanted to make. Yeah. Is that phone processing sucks because
00:55:01
all they're doing is they're just optimizing for storage. They're optimizing for like shadow detail. This
00:55:06
is why, and I might get crap for saying this, but like when Google Google got rid of their regular raw processing and
00:55:13
they introduced a sort of like pro raw kind of thing, which is in my opinion just worse
00:55:18
because it just lifts the shadows. And you don't always want the shadows to be lifted if you want it to look like a
00:55:23
real picture. Mhm. Anyway, we can move on. You're all wrong. Wait, was that actually dust on the
00:55:28
sensor and not a bird? No, that is actually I thought you were trying to throw them off. No, it is. It was a bird. I did later
00:55:34
get dust on my sensor, but that is a bird. Okay, next photo. You want to
00:55:39
describe it? Next photo is uh what looks on the left side of the frame to be a really high stack of various size rocks.
00:55:46
So, is that a Karen? What is I think that's how you pronounce it.
00:55:52
A lot of like national parks and stuff will put up these small rock structures to indicate where a trail is. So, this
00:55:57
is like clearly a trail pass with a lot of snow on it, but I thought they had just built it to sort
00:56:02
of replicate the the shape of the mountain in front of it. It's funny because I always am not sure how to pronounce it because I think it's
00:56:09
C A R I N. Oh, like a Kin. Oh, no. C A I R N. Man-made pile of
00:56:16
stone used to mark a trail especially in areas where path might be clear. K.
00:56:22
Oh, somebody's going to roast me for that. But okay. So, you want to describe the image as you see it?
00:56:27
Yeah. So, it looks like on the left side of the frame, we got a a really solid stack of stones with some snow on them,
00:56:35
possibly indicating a trail head or something like that. And then on the right is a whole bunch of snow covered
00:56:40
mountains. Whole bunch of blue sky in the background. Still plenty of dynamic range, a lot of things in the shadow of
00:56:47
the mountain this time. Uh, yeah, a lot of DR to play with. I'm confused.
00:56:55
I'm going to say this is iPhone. My initial thought was iPhone with no real substantial evidence to back it
00:57:02
with. My thinking is the shadows on the mountain are a little high
00:57:09
and the sky looks the same as the iPhone picture in the last image like the gradient.
00:57:14
My logic is they're all giving me nothing. When they're so compressed in Google Slides, you can't use detail anymore.
00:57:21
So, I'm trying to go by exposure. That's fair. And the whole at first I was like that
00:57:26
little portion in the middle right that is almost fully black. It's pretty dark and that's something that the iPhone
00:57:32
kind of wouldn't allow. But they also have the entire shadow side of this mountain in a lot of detail which kind
00:57:38
of feels like something the iPhone would do. So I don't know. I'm going to I
00:57:44
guess I I'm going iPhone cuz the mountain's in shadow and you can see all of it. I this one this I'm I'm stumped on this
00:57:51
one. Like I there's nothing I can really point to which is frustrating, man.
00:57:57
Oh, wait. You can see a reflection of him with the camera in the sun. I wish. And his smart glasses.
00:58:04
It's the metal wave. It was. David, which camera was this one?
00:58:09
Uh, this is the iPhone. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Next photo.
00:58:14
Next photo is a landscape of a mountainside lake. The lake is blue
00:58:19
green. The mountains in the background are covered in snow. The foreground has less snow. It's uh mostly stones and and
00:58:26
moss and some olive green plant type stuff. And the sky is blue again with some cirrus clouds.
00:58:32
Nice. Yeah. I There's a little grain to it. No. Yeah. Or is that just the water?
00:58:38
That's Google Slides. I'm just looking at the water and I guess it's ripples in the water. I think that's ripples in the water.
00:58:43
Okay. Yeah. Well, the shadow is the right side. Plenty of detail there.
00:58:51
I'm I'm going I iPhone again. I'm going Leica. I think if you look at
00:58:58
the sky, there's a little bit of grain that I think
00:59:03
Yeah, but would be a That looks exactly the same as in the last photo. Why are you Why are you doing this to
00:59:09
me, Andrew? Which was an iPhone. And the one before. Yeah, I think iPhone also. Yeah, I think we think it's an iPhone.
00:59:14
Ellis is just shaking his head. It's also funny cuz I may have skipped ahead to the next one. And I could tell how long you stayed at this lake cuz
00:59:20
there's that one singular rock formation somewhere in all of these photos. It kind of looks like a like tower camera.
00:59:27
This is a 16 Pro. 17 Pro. 17 Pro. Yeah. Which camera is this one? This is iPhone.
00:59:32
Gosh. Is this what's going to convince me to buy the new iPhone? No, I'm You could take this with an
00:59:37
iPhone 3GS. I don't know about that. It doesn't even have a plateau.
00:59:43
I did see someone go around taking sideby-side pictures and it didn't do bad. Yeah, the 3GS. Yeah, I mean,
00:59:48
dude, this much light. No, the 3GS processing was better before they introduced computational photography, but okay, move on to the
00:59:55
next photo. I know these are a lot of fairly similar. Yeah, this next one is a landscape
01:00:00
version uh from maybe the other side of that lake. Yeah. Okay. A lot of shadow on the left,
01:00:06
deep mountains in the highlights on the right. Wow. I'm going back to Leica cuz I think there's some some real shadow depth on
01:00:13
the left in that little crevice. Uh, still a ton of range though. I kind of
01:00:19
hope it's the iPhone. The like rock on the right has like a green tint to it. Yeah,
01:00:24
that feels uh I know nothing about Leas. There's also feels like something I
01:00:29
think iPhone because at this point I think David's just trying to me. So that's not a bad strategy.
01:00:36
That's good. Oh, Ellis found something. Never mind. It's the Leica. What did you find? What did
01:00:41
you find? We're on slide six, right? I'm not tripping. Yeah, six. Leica, what'd you find? I can't tell you.
01:00:48
I mean, we already put in Leica. It could be two really bokeh birds, but
01:00:53
the this Oh, I also thought that was on my screen. This really looks like smudge. Oh, that is smudge. Yeah.
01:00:59
Okay. I got spots on my sensor. My iPhones. Just kidding. Yeah. No, it's
01:01:04
like I I also probably should have cropped this differently because it's more of a giveaway when it's landscape.
01:01:09
The aspect ratio. Yeah. Yeah. But I did crop some of the iPhone photos. So, if slide seven is the iPhone, I'm
01:01:15
throwing away all of my cameras. Okay, so slide seven. This is like an ultra detailed really
01:01:22
far away landscape of two mountain peaks where the the sh the sun is casting a shadow that so only the the peaks of the
01:01:29
mountain are illuminated and you have this valley that is in the sha in shadow but still has so much detail.
01:01:36
Yeah, there's a lot of detail in all the shadow and even just like the rock face or the the hill in front of him, you can
01:01:42
see everything. This is really cool because like where the sun is hitting is the only snow cap part of the mountains
01:01:47
where the rest you can see the ski trails despite it not having snow. Um, so you can tell this is like the
01:01:53
valley of a, you know, a ski town. Um, and the fact that you can still see all of that in all of the shadow is very
01:02:00
impressive. I wish I was at the scene so I could see how light it actually is, but I think because it's darker I'm going Leica. But
01:02:07
I I could be wrong. I'm going Leica for my wallet's sake. I think I'm going like a on vibes.
01:02:15
I'm looking this up because I don't remember. I feel like that says something, right?
01:02:22
Um, is it this one? Yeah, it's that one. This is actually iPhone selfie camera. Yeah,
01:02:27
that's why it's square. He unlocked the full sensor.
01:02:33
All right. Um, this one's the iPhone. Okay. Well, I guess I'm just gonna
01:02:38
murder myself and enjoy. That's crazy, David. I know. It's crazy. It is crazy. Raw
01:02:45
photos are are crazy. You know why I couldn't tell? Cuz it didn't say shot on iPhone.
01:02:50
Yeah. Where's the watermark? Yeah. Where's the branding? Yeah. Okay. There's two more. Yeah.
01:02:55
Second to last one here is very blue. Very blue. You're on the You're on the edge of a lake. A beautiful reflection of a mountain in
01:03:02
an alpine lake. And there's a there's a person right in the center of the frame walking past the white snowcap mountain.
01:03:08
Yeah. With a cloud. You must be really altitude right now. Yeah. It was 12,000 ft. Sick. Wow. I
01:03:14
almost broke my knees. Oh man. I wish this water wasn't ripply. Well, I tried on so many It was too
01:03:22
bright to even do a long exposure on like any of my cameras. I tried to do long exposures and it was
01:03:28
it was too too much light. I didn't have any ND filters with me so I couldn't which is sad because it would have been
01:03:34
awesome. Well, no I just mean I wish it wasn't Ripley because then the reflection would be like perfectly intact of the mountain
01:03:40
which would have been sick which would have been awesome. That's what they like mirror lake at Yeah. Uh Yose everyone loves
01:03:47
I want to get this right now. I'm going Leica. I'm defaulting to whatever Ellis wants to say for this one.
01:03:53
The shadow is very dark. It is very sharp. We have lost meaningful detail in
01:03:59
the snow on the mountain, I've noticed. And we've also lost meaningful detail in the shadow in the foreground.
01:04:06
This is the iPhone. Because of the lesser dynamic range, I'm
01:04:12
going iPhone. I don't even have a good reason anymore. Yeah, let's go.
01:04:17
It has to be the iPhone. This one is the iPhone. Is it the iPhone? Which, ironically, I took this on the M11 as well, and I liked the iPhone shot
01:04:23
better. Okay. I picked it because you pointed to your Leica when you were talking about long exposure and then you went I mean
01:04:28
all my cameras and I thought you just gave it away. No. Yeah. Well, all right. The final shot.
01:04:34
This is an iPhone. Final shot is a nice big valley shot where the mountains are going up to the
01:04:40
left and up to the right. And in the far far distance there is a trail going up
01:04:45
to this beautiful snowcapped mountain. Also far less ideal lighting. It's more
01:04:51
clearly darker. Clearly quite a bit more uh I don't know if it's noise or grain or what, but there's clouds. You know,
01:04:58
it's not a blue sky anymore. It's just darker. Smoky clouds. Wow. Oh, this looks like a postcard.
01:05:05
Is this a trick question? Did you take this with a different camera? Cuz this looks very different from all the other photos you took.
01:05:11
There's way less light. It's cuz it's horizontal. Well, no. Just all of it looks It's totally different lighting.
01:05:17
It looks like a like a stock wallpaper on a Mac. M complimentary.
01:05:23
True. Uh yeah, a lot of the other photos were taken at like similar times of day. This is this is different lighting.
01:05:29
Okay, I'm going to go iPhone for this one just because I feel like I've seen Here we
01:05:35
go. I'm going to be wrong and I'm going to sound like an idiot more so than I already have been, but I feel like I've seen this same level of like breakdown
01:05:42
in the shadows with like smartphone photography. Mhm. I'm guessing Leica. I think
01:05:48
this is also my favorite photo out of all of them. Dang. I think this could be the iPhone.
01:05:53
Yeah, I'm going iPhone. I think it's the iPhone, but just because it looks like Apple media. I don't have any
01:05:59
The sky the sky is doing that thing again. Like the the iPhone seems to take
01:06:04
some of the exposure of the mountain and add it to the sky in a few of these if that makes any sense. Like I'm
01:06:11
noticing like on some of the Leica it gradients out to dark as you go up and on a lot of the iPhone shots it gradients to the color of the mountain
01:06:17
as you get closer to the horizon. This shot is the Leica. I don't know anything.
01:06:23
I'm I'm good at this game. The least amount of knowledge. Anyway, the point of this was to just
01:06:28
show you that like while I still prefer traditional cameras for the shooting experience, um you too can take pretty
01:06:35
cool pictures just with your phone. It's pretty insane. Like freaky good. like freaky good
01:06:40
freaky like you can't tell the difference. I'm going to steal one of our like iPhone Pros just so I can go back and
01:06:46
forth between the Pixel Pro and the iPhone Pro because this is really bothering me. Yeah, I feel like I might have chosen wrong this year.
01:06:52
Are there you buy a Rico? I could. Are there RAW apps on Pixel now or like
01:06:58
there probably are, right? Raw camera apps. I believe there are open camera. Yeah. Well, there's I do raw
01:07:04
or like a little cup of ceviche. Raw apps. Raw apps. Anyone?
01:07:10
Very nice. With the jokes. I like that. I forgot what it's called, but I think zero can.
01:07:15
My local ceviche place caught on fire a few weeks ago. Now they only serve grilled briny.
01:07:23
Yeah, I think that's our cue. Let's do trivia. All right, trivia. What was David's local ceviche
01:07:29
place? One Echo product that people often
01:07:34
forget about are the Amazon Echo Buds. What was the I never forgot. I never
01:07:39
forgot. What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell these sub $50 true wireless A&C
01:07:46
buds? They were under $50. Under $50. Remember the Echo Frames? And uh am I thinking of the wrong ones?
01:07:53
The This is price is right rule. So if you go over, you're disqualified. It's you.
01:07:58
Do you hear that? You go over, you're disqualified. Yeah. So what was the last year they made them? Okay. All right. Well, we'll think about this
01:08:04
one. Answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back. Support
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01:11:20
All right, welcome back. Uh we are using this last segment to jump in to listen to maybe the most interesting part of my
01:11:25
conversation that I got to have when I was out in uh Menllo Park with James Cameron who you might have heard of. uh
01:11:32
pretty legendary movie producer, director, creator, filmmaker in his own right and uh with Andrew Bosworth who
01:11:39
was also there with uh Meta. So, he's a CTO of Meta, and we just kind of had a random off-the- cuff chat about what
01:11:46
they're doing with these glasses, the first person video, and uh this it kind of went off the rails to be honest. But
01:11:52
this last part of the conversation I thought was pretty fun just because I found it interesting to put someone from
01:11:59
like real OG media into a YouTuber's shoes and try to ask him a little bit about what he thinks of, you know, the
01:12:05
character and the filmmaker being one and the same. So without any further ado, here's some of that conversation.
01:12:12
You know, I I've I'm familiar with audio projects and it seems like they take advantage of either some bleeding edge technology or some new technology to to
01:12:19
give a new perspective or make something incredible. And I wonder if you see firsterson cameras as an opportunity for
01:12:28
even a movie or a project that could maybe have some unique perspective we haven't seen before. Do you picture a
01:12:33
first-person movie being interesting? Well, I I think the filmmaker becomes the character.
01:12:39
Yeah. In that, right? And so, how charismatic or interesting is your filmmaker? Most
01:12:45
filmmakers are perfectly happy way back behind your camera, not being constantly
01:12:51
studied. But on the other hand, we've got a whole generation coming up on social media that are just used to being
01:12:57
observed all the time. And and even, you know, the whole influencer culture,
01:13:03
people want to be observed. You know, so absolutely I think you could you can
01:13:08
have a firsterson narrative shot with first person lenses. It could be script
01:13:13
could be fully scripted. It could be it could be a proper production. Yeah. You know, I think that'd be a lot of fun. You I go back again to this thing
01:13:20
that that I that I wrote back in 1993, I think, called Strange Days. And it was
01:13:26
about we just people just record their experience and then they sell it to other people,
01:13:32
you know, which by the way is the world we live in. Turns out, you know, turns out I was a little pressure ahead of
01:13:37
time on that. Yeah, we're kind of there. I feel like a lot of my videos are me trying to put the device in your hands so you can see
01:13:44
what it's like to hold it and own it before you actually buy it. And as tech gets better, I'm able to do that with higher fidelity and more
01:13:50
personality and and closer to real time. But you become you become the filmmaker
01:13:56
and the performer at the same time. Yeah. The viewer a oneman band. The viewer gets put into my shoes. Yeah.
01:14:02
Which is pretty sweet. Well, I mean, you know, we are going to do this deep sea expedition
01:14:07
thing where I might be in that very role because as my experience is being lived
01:14:13
and I'm seeing something that's never been seen before that's being piped out and and part part of a number of feeds,
01:14:20
there'll be, you know, mult multiple people experiencing this and then we'll have to figure out how to switch that, how to, you know, how to how to turn it
01:14:27
into some kind of a piece downstream that's going out live. So, that'll all get worked out. excited about that
01:14:33
big tech challenge it sounds like. Can't say too much about that right now. Excited about it. Can't say too much. Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to
01:14:39
seeing how it comes together. I did I watched the the Avatar You saw the trailer content for today?
01:14:44
Yeah. The two clips from today, which And you saw it in the Quest 3? I saw it on Quest 3. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It plays well in the in the in the
01:14:51
device, I think. Yeah. I mean, I've never watched an entire movie in a headset, but I'm thinking like it's almost getting to the
01:14:57
place where I'd be fine with that. The headset's light enough now. What would you do? You'd make them lighter and
01:15:04
we got work to do. James has notes, I imagine. But we listen.
01:15:09
Yeah. Sick. Cool. Yeah. I think it plays I think it plays well. And you know the thing I the thing I love about the about the uh you know
01:15:17
um MR or VR is that they're innately stereoscopic. So
01:15:24
anything that you're going to want to put up put up in there is going to be 3D. Yeah. And I've been working on on 3D
01:15:30
production for 25 years and and have figured out how to make it easy to
01:15:37
watch, you know, and and non not confronting to your senses and and so
01:15:42
on. If you were if you were a YouTuber today, put yourself in my shoes. I've been trying to make more and more
01:15:49
realistic content to put the viewer in my shoes to see what it's like to hold what I'm holding. Yeah.
01:15:55
Do you think 3D content is the natural inevitable future of what I'm doing or
01:16:02
is that more of a alongside I I think I think 650 million years of
01:16:07
evolution says yes. Yeah. Because once once organisms got to two
01:16:12
eyes, nature never looked back. And we have two eyes for a reason because it gives us more um engagement, right? So
01:16:20
what do you want to do as a YouTuber? You want to engage people. you want to hold hold eyeballs, right? What what
01:16:26
clicks? So, so engagement, I mean, it has to do with, you know, a lot of, you know,
01:16:31
neurobiology and that sort of thing about how the brain communicates with itself internally.
01:16:37
And you you you probably know this, but but there there are a lot of neurons in the in the visual cortex that are
01:16:44
triggered by parallax. So, what is when you when you're writing a discrete image to two eyes, you're generating parallax
01:16:51
in the brain, right? That's where we fuse those two images together to make a a 3D kind of
01:16:56
sense of the world. Y and because those different brain regions have to talk to each other,
01:17:02
those and and you know, so a neuron's like a like a GPU, right? So it it's
01:17:07
that particular neuron does nothing but sense parallax. Other neurons do other
01:17:12
things. They recognize faces. Do this is parallax recognition. And then those different regions of the
01:17:18
the visual cortex talk to each other. So there's actually enhanced brain activity
01:17:23
when you're staring at a staring at a flat image versus a stereoscopic image. So that same thing about when you had a
01:17:30
mo when you wrote memory deeper. Yep. That's right. Based on emotion, it's the same
01:17:36
principle. The more your brain is active, the better you'll remember it, the more engaged you'll be. So yeah. So
01:17:42
that's the long-winded answer. The short-witted answer is yes. Yeah. I think it's a depth and breath thing. If you look at the trends in media
01:17:48
content, not just in the internet, but even going back a 100 years to the novel nolla article movement, like they go to
01:17:54
the edges. You know, our most popular media types now are 100 plus hour video
01:18:00
games. Mhm. And the shortest like most rapidly available content. And it makes sense
01:18:06
like we either have a little bit of time and we're just like snatching it up. And you'd be foolish, especially in your business, not to be paying good
01:18:12
attention to that. That's where it's kind of the easy in easy out. Yeah. But there's a second part of this which is can you take the depth of engagement yes
01:18:18
um for your most loyal committed people and bring them in deeper and like there is an a whole history here of of
01:18:26
investments to make sure that it's getting easier and easier over time to tell more compelling
01:18:31
stories more compelling experiences to people um and that's one of the things that we're really passionate about obviously.
01:18:37
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of see it as a natural as a natural evolution. I there are all kinds of things too that will
01:18:43
today turn 2D imagery into it'll try to perceive a stereoscopic
01:18:50
stereo stereoscopic version of that and it's impressive with AI and it kind of seems to figure it out pretty quickly.
01:18:56
So it's going to take over eventually. I mean I think right now there's there's one very decisive advantage with native
01:19:02
stereo cameras which is real time. you know, to get to get a a really
01:19:07
comparable result uh in a from a from a Gen AI, you know, stereo conversion
01:19:12
model or depth model, it needs more time, right? But it'll catch up, you know, it'll
01:19:18
catch up. All right. Well, that was a pretty fun conversation. Shout out again to Bos and James Carman for the time. Uh, which
01:19:24
leaves us with just one more thing to do this episode now that everyone's back. It's of course trivia time.
01:19:33
[Music] Question number one is about the Amazon Echo Flex.
01:19:40
What was it? [Music] That's it. That's the question.
01:19:48
What? That's a really good question. What was that? I know cuz Echoplex tells you literally
01:19:53
nothing. I was going to say like that's a bad name if you don't know what it is.
01:19:59
It's It's sick. It's Is this closest without going over?
01:20:06
Sure. Yeah. It's one of those slap bracelets. Guys, what is it? Marquez, you first.
01:20:12
I think it's some sort of a display. Nope. I said phone. Nope. I put smart display.
01:20:18
Okay. What if I told you that the Echo Flex Was that the clock? It's a
01:20:23
microwave. USBA to wall adapter. Wait, that has a speaker and Alexa built in.
01:20:32
Yep. Why did they name it? Why did they name it that? Why they name the flex? Who knows? Why would you name that?
01:20:38
What the heck? All right, quick update on the score while we're here. Uh Marquez with six, Andrew with eight,
01:20:46
David after getting 0 for two last week when we called him after the pod, still
01:20:51
at three. M. All right. Wow, that hit way too well. Next
01:20:58
question. What was the last year that Amazon tried to sell $50 true wireless A&C earbuds called the Amazon Echo Buds?
01:21:06
As close as I can say I they fluctuated in price over the years in different versions, but almost all the ones I saw
01:21:12
were sub50. though. If there are any diehard Echo Buds users out there who
01:21:18
paid more than $50 and are mad I'm not giving them credit, please email me
01:21:23
podcastmkhd.com. I don't remember that. Is that a secret email at all? No. Oh,
01:21:29
Adam just doesn't want to get the angry emails. Oh, I don't have access to that email. So, you will be hitting him. All right.
01:21:35
Oh, who wants to read first? We can go in ascending order because I put 2020.
01:21:42
2020. They They were made after that. Yeah, I put 2021.
01:21:47
They were made after that. I think the answer is 2024, but I put 2023 to be safe. They were made after that because the
01:21:52
answer is Well, David, you do get the point. Yay. Uh, but the answer is they are still being made to this day. You can go on
01:22:00
Amazon.com and buy a pair of Echo Buds. That was good framing. Absolutely should not do it.
01:22:06
I thought when I heard that, I was like, really? Sub&c head like earbuds seems like a great
01:22:11
product today. So, if they stopped making them, they must have had like a really important reason to stop making them, which might have been like around
01:22:18
CO times because if they kept going after CO, they would have found out that there's a really good market for them. I just thought it's funny that they make
01:22:23
this and no one I've never heard I didn't even know they made before today. Yeah. On the Alexa store, there are two
01:22:30
different models of Amazon Echo Buds that are both listed as newest model.
01:22:36
Um, tough. You know, it's crazy that like, you know, one of the most valuable companies in the world, folks,
01:22:42
still run by humans after all. Ex allegedly, man. I
01:22:48
um Wait, can I yell at a company real quick? 2.73 $37 trillion company.
01:22:53
How much is OpenAI worth? Nothing because they're still not profitable. Fair. Well, they released a new store
01:22:59
app that we didn't talk about, but we will probably at some point, but not on Android. How is this company so like it
01:23:07
has all the money and they didn't release an end Sor is just the slop generator,
01:23:12
right? Yeah, but they have the app now on iOS. Sora app. Yeah, now specifically. Cool. Well, hey, either way, that's been
01:23:18
it for this episode. Hope you enjoyed. Lots of fun conversations, more coming up as well. Obviously, we had some
01:23:24
people on this episode, but we have more coming on future episodes. So, stay tuned for that. Get subscribed if you haven't already and we'll catch you guys
01:23:31
very soon next week in Techtober. Peace. Waveform is produced by Adamolina and
01:23:36
Ellis River. We're partner with Fox Media Podcast Network and our tra music was created by Bane Silk. Bingo.
01:23:42
Also, we're already in Techtober.
01:23:51
Marquez, can you actually scroll reals on there? Mhm. Like for real? Mhm. For reals?
01:23:56
No joke. Yeah, that was
