00:00:00
okay here's the move here's the move okay there is this Parkhouse in my neighborhood that I go to that's outside
00:00:05
and I sometimes work on my laptop outside mhm wait there's a what park house it's like it used to be a go it
00:00:10
doesn't matter it's just an outside building sorry it doesn't matter any are you
00:00:17
outside or you in a building outside but the building is next to aren't all buildings outside I don't know man say
00:00:28
okay what is up people of the welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts I'm Marquez I'm
00:00:34
Andrew and I'm David and in today's episode we just have a lot of stuff mwc
00:00:41
was this past week basically I think it might be finishing up by the time you listen to this but it was a pretty good one in that there was just a ton of
00:00:47
stuff shown off especially in the smartphone world but in others too great and also Apple decided to sneaky dropped
00:00:54
two press releases this week some press release product announcements and we had products that we reviewed on the channel
00:01:00
it's a good time there's a lot Ellis this morning came up and was like it feels good to have like a product
00:01:06
podcast episode today and I was like oh yeah we do it's like only products today yeah oh just wait oh just wait there's
00:01:14
something that's not a product that I'm very excited about all that will come towards the end for the the hook baby
00:01:21
but first of all okay if you're listening to this on Friday uh we're on our way to South by Southwest and that's
00:01:27
where we will be doing like we've mentioned our first ever live podcast on the Vox stage at 10:00 a.m. on Saturday
00:01:34
10: a.m. Central Time obviously if you're there feel free to hop on over um for those who aren't we will be
00:01:40
publishing it as a bonus episode so you'll able to hear it we'll have some like live fun studio audience
00:01:46
interaction hopefully it should be a good time if you're there please come we need an audience yeah it would be pretty
00:01:51
embarrassing if we showed up and nobody all else showed up that would also be true sad we do podcasting for ourselves
00:01:57
yeah so if any of you guys are actually there see there um but yeah I think we should just jump right in cuz there's a
00:02:03
lot to cover and I feel like if we don't jump right in we will never get to the end aged yeah so okay first thing xiaomi
00:02:10
modular camera phone lens thing this is mwc material yes okay for those that
00:02:17
don't know Mobile World Congress big technology trade show a few months after CES uh generally specifically focused
00:02:25
around phones and then more recently smart home stuff so there's always a lot of smart home stuff but this year in particular
00:02:30
this kind of feels like old CES levels of smartphone weirdness I love it so
00:02:35
much from what I've seen yes lots of Concepts lots of strange devices lots of solar powered technology were for each
00:02:42
one of these things we should figure out and just establish if it's a real product or not I think you can blank it
00:02:48
say no to that it's like no on most of them there there are some I was going to say we should very quickly run through
00:02:54
them and there's essentially a gimmick to everyone let's try and see who who we
00:03:00
think would use this gimmick or if we think anyone would use the gimmick and a very quick I think David's going to have
00:03:05
more than a few quick thoughts on the first one that's why I put it first yeah but everything under that's a bit quicker okay yeah yeah so so xiaomi says
00:03:13
we can attach an entire smartphone camera or a bigger than a smartphone camera and bigger than smartphone Optics
00:03:20
to the back of your smartphone with some pins yeah and so you can take these great pictures and then when you're done
00:03:25
you just take it off the back of your phone put it back in your pocket and you have a regular xiaomi phone it's not the
00:03:30
first time we've seen this concept before no I have vivid memories of two of them one of them was a Sony version
00:03:35
of this like the QX 100 back in the day which was literally the same thing like everyone knows the RX100 it was a little
00:03:41
sensor with a lens that you slapped onto the back of your Sony phone and the Sony phone became the viewfinder and you have
00:03:46
a nice camera very cool and then what was that there was like a moto a Hasselblad Moto mod there was a Hasselblad Moto mod there was the
00:03:53
Samsung phone that just was a camera oh this Galaxy camera yeah yeah so we've seen versions of this before
00:04:00
um this is xiaomi's version 100 megapixels big lens f1.4 wide open to
00:04:07
f11 yeah uh roughly 35 mm Prime focal length not a zoom and then these pins
00:04:13
are super powerful so they built a phone so you can transfer 10 gigabits per second so you get like real time viewfinder all the information from your
00:04:20
lens yeah it's a cool idea yes um they said it's a 4/3 type sensor which I
00:04:26
don't really know if that means micro 4/3 or if that is sort of of the 1.0 type kind of situation where sounds like
00:04:32
it's a little if I'm doing straight math it's bigger than the 1.0 type sensor yes definitely it means 43s is nice is which
00:04:41
is four3 Vibes which is what 1.0 type is as well not an inch yeah uh yeah the
00:04:46
cool thing about this is It's like a physical lens that has the sensor in the lens and then it transfers via these
00:04:52
Pogo pins at 10 gbits per second which is very cool uh and I find that super
00:04:58
interesting I wish it was not 100 megapixels the reason they're probably doing that is because it's not a zoom
00:05:04
lens and that way you can crop into the center of the sensor but then you have pixel pitch pitch issues which means
00:05:10
you're not getting as much light per pixel so that's a whole thing however uh
00:05:15
again micro 4/3 type is definitely bigger than 1 in and if you can just
00:05:20
like slap it on the back of your phone the question becomes and again this is a concept so it's not actually coming out right now okay the question then becomes
00:05:27
just like with the Moto mods uh where they actually did keep releasing Moto mods and being able to use Moto mods on
00:05:35
newer Motorola phones for a few Generations but they did eventually give up on it so the question that becomes do
00:05:40
you want to buy a lens for a system of smartphones that you're not sure how long they're going to actually support
00:05:46
it for that's question CU when you buy a regular lens for like a like a camera or like a Canon camera you assume you're
00:05:52
going to be able to use it basically forever especially with adapters this is so proprietary yeah that you're not sure
00:05:58
very oneoff accessory type Vibes I think what's cool about it versus like the QX 100 was that had like a little clamp on
00:06:06
it where this is so the Pogo pins are just for the file transfer it connects magnetically actually almost like mag
00:06:11
safe it's literally a circle Puck on like the back and like the lens aspect of it I know you said the sensors in it
00:06:17
this is basically a standalone camera that you control with your phone and then transfers so quickly um but yeah if
00:06:24
you were to buy this and then lose or like the next xiaomi phone you like doesn't have those pins on it then you
00:06:29
don't you just have this like Standalone camera you can't really control unless you still have the phone well xiaomi has a sub brand called real me and they also
00:06:37
did a camera concept phone which was similar but different in that it basically had the sensor on the back of
00:06:44
the phone if I understand this correctly yeah like inside the camera bump right and then you they had a mount where you
00:06:50
could actually Mount existing lenses from other camera brands to the back of it and then just condense the light onto
00:06:56
that which is like similar to what the hydrogen was supposed to do man that
00:07:02
phone yeah I got very excited for that because it was supposed to take like Fuji lenses and stuff and then they just
00:07:07
never made the adapter yeah yeah there was all those pins on the back of the hydrogen and then never they didn't use
00:07:13
for anything damn yep yeah I added this one cuz it felt more like an in between of of like cool external thing that's
00:07:20
not carrying cuz every everyone that I read that used the real lens on the real me one was like the balance of this is
00:07:26
just so bad it's like you're just just holding a lens with a phone like on the back of it yeah I mean there's no way
00:07:32
that you could use like a zoom lens or a telephoto lens because it would just the balance would be insan you'd be holding
00:07:38
the lens with your hand and then just like tapping on the phone as the screen which is what some cameras are like
00:07:43
nowadays anyway too but yeah overall I think the idea is like super cool and I love the idea that you're like hiking
00:07:50
and all you have to do is carry some lenses with you and you can just slap on whatever lens you want onto the back of your phone I think that's very cool
00:07:56
Del's Advocate if you're going to pack a bunch of lenses why not just pack of body yeah just pack of camera yeah I
00:08:04
mean there are some benefits like phones have much more computational photography
00:08:09
chops than cameras do these days which could be for the best could be for the worst
00:08:14
obviously uh but also you immediately have the images on your phone it goes through the same pipeline you can share
00:08:20
them to social immediately was it Sigma who made the camera that had like Lightroom built into it and you could
00:08:26
share to Instagram instantly I remember what you're talking about I don't know who made it but that I can't remember who that was but then there's like some
00:08:33
Half Baked like like Sony has a app you can put on your your Sony Alpha phone the old Alp and on your camera and it'll
00:08:40
like Wi-Fi connect them and you can download the picture from the camera like some of that stuff it works okay it's not good it's bad yeah all camera
00:08:47
apps are bad this is true yeah yeah so that that came out I think price of lens
00:08:52
would be the biggest factor of what what would like entail you wanting to actually get that again especially since
00:08:58
you can't use it with any anything else if you upgrade your phone if you you can't change Brands like there's so many
00:09:04
there's so many factors here yeah that's the one we're going to talk about the longest for sure do not wor no I I put
00:09:11
that up front because when I I the first thing in this document was me and slack saying David I know you have thoughts on
00:09:17
this get ready to talk about it on the Pod the rest of these will be really fast in fact have you guys heard of the company Nubia oh have I really I've
00:09:25
never heard of them definitely cuz I'm an idiot they a lot of that you haven't heard of them they make a lot of weirdo
00:09:31
well here's two weird phones that I saw at Mobile World Congress the first one real sorry real phone or concept phone
00:09:37
uh these might actually one of these I think is a concept one of these I think is real because is the music 2 has a
00:09:43
it's a predecessor um so okay so the Nubia Focus 2 ultra on the back has a
00:09:50
spinning dial around the circular camera bump that lets you adjust the camera's Zoom is it real yes they say it's really
00:09:57
easy to move in landscape mode or sorry in portrait mode and I think it's actually kind of neat because I hate
00:10:04
Circle camera bumps so if you can add a nice if it feels nice a spinning wheel if I'm thinking of like Galaxy watch
00:10:11
classic with that really nice spinning bezel I think that would be pretty
00:10:16
awesome yeah and if it's mappable to other things that would be cool yeah like volume dude a DJ
00:10:24
app that'd be dope I kind of like that yeah so the other one is called the music 2 which I'm almost positive is
00:10:30
real but I just had to see it one because it looks wild and two because Dominic Preston at The Verge titled this
00:10:36
little subject the most annoying phone ever made ads AI hell yeah which is you
00:10:42
can't not click that article so what's the concept here um so the Nubia music
00:10:47
has a two cameras and then what feels like a camera bump but is actually a speaker on the back of it to play music
00:10:53
out loud they claim it plays music at 600% louder than the average phone oh my God and Nubia Music 2 now adds LEDs and
00:11:02
an AI music generator so you can just get on the subway and just generate terrible music
00:11:09
to annoy people with and then yell you're the first people who have ever heard this yeah this uh I I don't like this
00:11:17
one no okay it looks cool it has this like cool comic like cell shaded box
00:11:23
grid on the back as the pattern and I think it looks pretty sweet I think that
00:11:29
I do like it for the reasons where you don't want to carry Bluetooth speaker with you to the beach and you can just
00:11:35
use your phone I think that's cool I can see I mean there are times where I don't want a Bluetooth speaker the opposite of
00:11:42
that is if you're at a national park and you're playing like music out loud on this yeah I will throw you off the
00:11:50
bridge yeah I guess the question is how often are you wanting a Bluetooth speaker versus like I would like to buy
00:11:57
a phone that is specifically good at blasting music so I don't need a Bluetooth speaker do you know what I'm realizing what the Moto G had G play
00:12:05
right with the back mods had a JBL speaker also are these just all taking all the old Moto mods and turning them
00:12:11
into singular phones instead so Moto mods were ahead of their time oh they were way ahead of their yeah interesting
00:12:17
they lasted a while but they did eventually die I would say that this phone looks horrible I would just throw that in
00:12:24
there it definitely looks like an old comic strip for sure so it's it it's going to be controversial I dig it okay
00:12:30
next next a lot of these are just like literally what I say out loud and the picture is all of the information we
00:12:36
have this included this is the Samsung flexible briefcase cool I know right so I feel
00:12:42
like Samsung saw the LG stand by me go cuz it looks very similar from the outside yeah and when you open the
00:12:48
briefcase it's just a giant folding screen yes Jesus they would not let
00:12:55
anyone touch it of course not that's funny cuz it's not real break when you touch it probably
00:13:01
there's there's no stands as far as anyone can tell so I don't even know how you open it up but in my eyes just like
00:13:07
the standby Migo this just to me feels like the new crypto way of opening up a briefcase full of money crypto you know
00:13:15
because it's on a screen instead yeah or like here's your nft no this would be good this would be good as a prop for a
00:13:22
YouTube because you know that like moment in a video where like someone opens a briefcase and and whatever's inside glows onto their face yeah you
00:13:28
just load it up with a yellow PNG oh and you got that moment right there this is a video prop for eight times the price
00:13:34
that it would cost for like a little aperture like the battery dies and yeah this is this is hilarious and useless
00:13:41
but good job Samsung but inside that same booth Samsung showed a prototype of a folding gaming handheld let go imagine
00:13:49
a switch that folds in half and the way they deal with the joysticks is the extra d-pad and like AB buttons look
00:13:57
indented in so the joystick can fit inside it when it folds so it can be flat it the buttons look terrible yeah
00:14:03
but if they were good I I don't know man really only the only reason this would
00:14:09
be cool is if you can fit it in your pocket yeah which I don't think cuz you can't fit a switch in your pocket or a
00:14:14
steam deck or anything in your pocket but if you could fold it in half and then actually fit it in your pocket that would be cool but I don't think you can
00:14:20
I still think this would save space inside your backpack unlike a plane if the switch could fold in half but is that worth the crease in the center of
00:14:27
your screen yeah you're you're already bringing a backpack at that point yeah just I think so just bring a switch I
00:14:33
don't I yeah I have what I call my emotional security backpack and by that I mean I never leave anywhere without my
00:14:40
backpack it always has a battery Bank in it it always has my laptop it always has a Bluetooth speaker and it always has a
00:14:47
small towel so you don't need Moto mods no and you don't need is it is there
00:14:52
extra space in there there's extra space um the the downside is that my spine is
00:14:58
compressed so maybe you need M mods so you don't need the backpack that's true that's
00:15:04
true so I could fit my switch in my backpack as what I'm saying and I'm not sure that I would need a fold it switch
00:15:10
but yeah I'd be there for it okay but sounds like I'm the only one I would like to see it in person I just think
00:15:16
logically speaking if you're adding a folding screen you're adding cost and
00:15:21
complexity you're also splitting the battery in half and you're doing a whole bunch of other complicated things could be better because then you could Char it
00:15:26
twice as so this thing will cost more than a regular version of a handheld
00:15:31
gaming console so you really have to want to fold it in half for some reason
00:15:37
to pay for this Adam looks like he wants it the main reason I don't carry around my switch is because it's just a little
00:15:44
too big like it's just i' I've been debating it for that reason like I think the switch is the
00:15:50
perfect size when you're using it but when I'm carrying it around it's just a little weird in my bag cuz it's like
00:15:56
it's too small to be in a big bag but it's too big to fit in any of the little pockets you're the perfect switch light
00:16:02
customer my friend I know yeah you are you're also potentially the perfect fanny pack customer oh shoot consider
00:16:08
that wait a fanny pack just for a switch is like the most baller move ever
00:16:14
throwing that out there just saying what you got in therea a switch and a
00:16:20
[Laughter] Zin okay all next we're going to talk
00:16:27
about Lenovo cuz we talked about them a couple times and I think Lenovo is the new LG at this point with some of the
00:16:33
stuff they're thrown out there they're they're going that crazy are this is the no the Lenovo thinkbook flip which
00:16:40
reminds me of I think a previous Lenovo rollable the rollable one so it's essentially a laptop that can turn into
00:16:47
a portrait screen essentially twice the height of a regular screen but in this case it happens by you fold open the
00:16:55
laptop and then if you imagine your normal screen there's also a screen on the back because that folds upwards to
00:17:01
make an extra tall Monitor and this definitely won't scratch a ton yeah what
00:17:07
so you close it by folding it back over itself but then you have a tablet yeah but then you have to put that in your
00:17:13
bag I guess okay and when you're using the tablet you won't have to feel the keys on the honestly this looks
00:17:19
hilarious wide open with the screen up yes just being in a coffee shop and having this tallest laptop of all time
00:17:25
like what would you like and I'm like oh sorry I can't see you want a plane this would get crushed someone would lean
00:17:31
their seat back and your screen would just break it now yeah I do I like the rollable one better cuz I want to be at
00:17:37
the coffee shop and someone's staring at me and then just like it rolls up becomes like the divider and the rollable one is actually for sale now
00:17:43
actually buy it yeah oh man Lenovo if you hear this I please on the podcast I
00:17:49
just want to be talking as my screen rolls up and picture walking into a coffee shop and you see some dude
00:17:55
sitting there with a with a portrait laptop and he's also wearing like a really tall 10 gon hat and everything
00:18:02
he's doing is just God dang it yep wow I
00:18:07
love it 18in tall display it's 35 yeah the rollable is $33,500 but you can buy it is the balance not terrible when you
00:18:14
open it does it not want to flop over hell yeah brother man you got to make sacrifices sometimes so okay well you
00:18:21
that's what's wrong with all existing laptops right is they're not portrait true right am I right
00:18:30
okay here's what I would do I would flip it open and then set it sideways because
00:18:35
the keyboard becomes a kickstand and then you have a full 16x9 like larger screen that you can watch content on but
00:18:41
then you have to type like this you got to make sacrifice Bluetooth keyboard yeah you have another keyboard
00:18:48
that's already how David puts his laptop on the floor so true when I'm working or when I'm doing something else I just put
00:18:54
my laptop this wow yeah it's an it's an idea look Lenovo
00:18:59
I'm not going to say don't keep trying things but this one you can move on F
00:19:04
problem do you want me to try and sell you on the other one sure uh oh okay they also made a solar power laptop let
00:19:10
go where the whole back is solar panels to help charge there's so many reasons I
00:19:16
I feel every time I talk about solar panels I feel like the biggest hater I want solar panels to work but think
00:19:22
about where you use a laptop in the sun yeah if you ever use a laptop in a place
00:19:28
where there's so much sun that it can power your laptop it's going to overheat number one you can't see your screen number two your solar panels are not
00:19:35
facing the sky they're they're facing down that's actually a good point you have to have it closed and sitting in the sun tell bring a
00:19:42
bounce yeah you're right you could bring a bounce with you you're telling me you don't like doing all your work on that
00:19:48
really little bar they cram into the front glass of like every coffee shop and then you also want to have your left
00:19:54
up like this facing the sun to keep it alive okay here's the move here's the move okay there is this Park House in my
00:19:59
neighborhood that I go to that's outside and I sometimes work on my laptop outside mhm wait there's a what park
00:20:05
house it's like it used to be a it doesn't matter it's just an outside building
00:20:11
sorry it doesn't matter any are you outside or you in a building outside but the building is next to outside aren't
00:20:17
all buildings outside I don't know man say Okay regardless there are benches outside the building yes which are part
00:20:23
of the building yes some sort of and you can I work there sometimes okay that's all that matters the move okay they also
00:20:30
sell coffee inside the building though okay so the move so the building's a coffee shop and other stuff they also
00:20:37
sell other stuff okay so you work on the bench outside bench outside until your laptop gets really low battery and then
00:20:44
you call your friend and you say want to come have some coffee with me you close the lid of your laptop you have a coffee
00:20:49
for an hour and then you get one more hour of video playback when you reopen your laptop realistically you probably
00:20:56
get about 4% battery yes that's always the people see they see solar panels and
00:21:02
they think they're going to get a t of energy from them Lenovo is quoting that 20 minutes of sun gives it one hour of
00:21:09
video playback 20 minutes of sun yeah can give it one hour I love okay that's
00:21:14
great that's way better video playback is the easiest possible thing for this is also true they are using video
00:21:19
playback for a reason but 20 minutes that means okay I'm about to die close it for 20 minutes max sun exposure
00:21:27
laptop's heating up hold it up Sun here we go 20 minutes like this and now you can open it up and use your laptop
00:21:32
theoretically for another hour yeah that's really cool there's definitely going to be some extra weight on the
00:21:38
back for all the solar panel stuff and all the electronics and the glass um I
00:21:44
would Devil's Advocate say that if you put a bigger battery in the laptop that would be a better use of extra weight
00:21:50
and space yeah but if it's already 100 watt hours and you can only bring 100 wat hours on the
00:21:55
plane Checkmate checkmate you're on a plane you have an outlet next to you okay wait I have a use case for this
00:22:02
okay what if it just keeps the laptop at its current battery level but how would you do that when the lid is going to be
00:22:08
like no I mean like you close it like you know how like if you keep it in standby mode it'll slowly just like drain over time what if it doesn't
00:22:14
theoretically it's supposed to drain extremely slowly have you used the Windows laptop recently yeah that's true
00:22:20
also not not all airplanes charge your laptop anymore even with Outlets a lot of them now are rated I forget what
00:22:27
they're rated to to but like it's a specific wattage so like if you plug my big chungus 87 watt MacBook charger into
00:22:33
them it'll just be like I'm not charging this bro I did go on a plane that charged a 240 watt damn yeah that was
00:22:39
crazy but some usually they short yeah yeah they don't short it's just like they so there's a situation where you
00:22:47
have a long flight and a 100w hour laptop that you charge to 100% and you're going to use this laptop for so
00:22:52
long during this flight yes that yes your battery's going to die you hold it up to the plan
00:23:00
SE imagine flying to Singapore right is the longest flight from New York City and you're like Chasing the Sun so you
00:23:07
never gets dark you have to fly during the day you got unlimited battery power for your video playback yeah every 20
00:23:14
every hour you close it for 20 minutes you you hold it you put it back down sir
00:23:20
what do you I think this is a billion dollar idea I want solar panels to be more efficient so these ideas don't sound so
00:23:26
ridiculous I think they're getting better well don't worry if you're not into solar panels a good another
00:23:32
one they made a gas powered phone I it's like the rivan right it's
00:23:38
electric car with a oh no sorry the Scout Motors the Scout Motors it's electric car with a gas power generator
00:23:44
well infinix also came out with a solar charging phone let's go where the back of it is a solar panel same exact thing
00:23:51
okay yeah and max power it says two watt basically all they said is up to two watts and they also had to create
00:23:56
something called maximum PowerPoint track in because the problem with heating your phone up as the sun is it
00:24:03
causes overheating and they also have to manage maximum power generating efficiency while also managing
00:24:10
overheating on your phone there's a reason why these things don't ship uh it's a cool idea in theory it's a great
00:24:17
way of imagining efficiency and free energy it just doesn't work very often but we we had that remember the Prius
00:24:23
from back in the day we a couple years ago reviewed the new Prius and it had a solar roof opt
00:24:29
that's the best I've ever seen it work because it had a battery and we could leave it sitting outside in New Jersey
00:24:35
for several days and gain a few miles of really usable range which is like okay
00:24:41
if you live in California somewhere where you can park every day outside at work like you can actually gain free
00:24:46
driving energy yeah it's the best I've ever seen it work yeah we had a Fisker it didn't work very well right we've had
00:24:53
uh other solar things that are Concepts that don't work very well so it's just
00:24:58
teetering I did a video on the solar on my house that works amazingly well that is an enormous amount of surface area so
00:25:05
it works so yeah a tiny phone this is probably the worst case scenario that would be a good video though is I use my
00:25:11
phone for a week only using the sun two Watts I didn't use it very much yeah
00:25:18
that's that's the tough thing I feel like when your phone gets hot it dies faster and you have to get the phone hot
00:25:24
to get the power back and I just feel like this is probably negatively efficient if you leave your phone face
00:25:29
down outside for an entire day then the next day you can use your phone for a little bit for two minutes yeah yeah
00:25:36
yeah very nice cool I have two or I have one more and David has one more go the last one is the spark slim um it's a
00:25:44
concept phone that's 5.75 mm thick while also having a 52 mAh battery so this is
00:25:50
kind of like our holy mlly this is our like sneak peek into these new thin phones that we might be seeing yeah 2025
00:25:58
could the year of the skinny phone maybe I mean this isn't something I'm just
00:26:03
forecasting cuz now we have three we have this we have Samsung Galaxy Edge we have rumored iPhone Air says it's three
00:26:10
but technos spark is is the first one to show something in no Samsung showed us first anyway this sparked a question
00:26:18
that I posted on Twitter and I want to ask you guys your thoughts on this Spar no because we're not bringing back skinny jeans no this is this is a real
00:26:25
question when we consider the thickness of a Smartphone when it's like Ultra Ultra razor thin but then there's a
00:26:31
camera bump yeah does the camera bump count towards the thickness of the phone
00:26:37
only if it's the same thickness as the phone itself so this little technos spark which is 5 mm it's crazy crazy
00:26:44
thin yeah it has a camera bump which makes it like 8 mm at the camera bump
00:26:50
but nobody talks about that it's crazy cuz the rest of the phone is super thin and has 5,200 milliamp is that is that
00:26:57
is that cool um um who cares all that's a valid answer I'll say what I I have a
00:27:03
reason for why it's still beneficial because if you put a case on it with the camera bump cut out the case will still
00:27:09
be thinner because the camera bump just follows that so it makes it flush so it's still thinner than a thick phone
00:27:15
with a case on top of it but Counterpoint yeah why do we need our phones to be thinner we
00:27:22
don't nice yeah we don't so what if okay I'm done stay with me I've never heard
00:27:27
of person ask for this a thin phone a thinner phone I've never I've never seen someone pick up a phone and be like too
00:27:34
thick remember when Apple remember when Apple decided to make the iPhone thicker
00:27:40
and the battery life got way better and everyone was like yes MH and then now they're doing the opposite and
00:27:46
everyone's saying no but they're still doing it anyway you know what I wonder cuz I feel like universally everyone for
00:27:53
years has always said yeah make the phone thicker but then Engineers work on
00:28:00
these devices and you know the natural progression of Technology you kind of feel like thinner is more advanced you
00:28:06
see movie props they're super thin like everyone thinks that the future should be it's efficient and then they make a
00:28:12
phone thinner and then they get a bunch of Praise when it looks cool and then they sort of believe that they should
00:28:18
keep doing that I wonder if the like make a thicker phone with more battery
00:28:23
actually sells better than the thinner phone like if you could isolate that variable being the only difference it's
00:28:29
a great question because the number one concern of almost every single consumer is that their devices die too fast most
00:28:35
people are like I only want to upgrade my phone because it dies too quickly yeah the question becomes like you said
00:28:43
is that more powerful of a marketing tactic then looks flashy looks cool yeah
00:28:49
I feel like I have two thoughts on that okay one is uh I spaced out wait two thoughts what
00:28:57
if this happens last on the podcast that's going to be a problem I'm going to need you guys to save me does
00:29:02
the thickness count I have two thoughts on that one is I think the perception of
00:29:08
new and advanced like thinness gives that off and when you're paying for something super expensive being new and advanced
00:29:16
and that feel of it whether it means you literally get worse battery life could be a selling point um then my other
00:29:22
thought is just is thin phones the new curved edges where we all think it feels
00:29:28
super great and the new technology and in like 3 years we're going to be like
00:29:34
it actually made a everyone like heavier phones feel more premium that is a thing
00:29:41
that they have tested people think that heavier things are more premium same
00:29:46
steel iPhone but there's a it's true but then the next year they go with titanium
00:29:51
and it's lighter and they Market the lightness as being a better thing is that weird it's weird I the one thing
00:29:56
I'll leave this on is I I do think Tech in general I think thinness is actually a
00:30:02
proxy for efficiency when we see something get thinner but have the same battery life that means it it's more
00:30:09
efficient with the space it's working with and I think we want technology to move forward by getting more and more
00:30:14
efficient in general and staying the same size and if it can get more and more efficient then that means it can get thinner and thinner and have the
00:30:20
same battery life or it can stay the same size and have way better battery life but as long as it's getting more
00:30:25
efficient it's winning so this technos spark slim is going to fit a silicon carbon battery I assume I hope it's 5200
00:30:33
Milah hours it's thinner but has the same capacity that's better efficiency
00:30:38
that looks more high-tech to me I'm worried that because it's thinner it's not going to transfer heat as well it's
00:30:44
not going to cool as well yeah that's definitely true so it will probably die faster it probably won't be as performant yeah that too but they're
00:30:51
probably underclocking it as well but it looks cool sure yeah yeah my thing with
00:30:56
this is and this is I'm sure they're going for cuz it's like Concepts and stuff but back in the day when they released like the Samsung Edge where it
00:31:03
was just like one side of it was curved yeah I was like this Edge yeah the S6 Edge I was like this is cool but like
00:31:09
what is what is this for fast forward a decade and it's that's what they
00:31:14
marketed it literally fast forward a decade and now we have folding phones you know like what is this actually for
00:31:22
I don't think that it's thin phones I think somewhere down the line will have something that makes it worth it because
00:31:27
we well I think that everything is just a Tik Tok cycle and you can Market
00:31:33
anything if you just convince people that it's good it's definitely true you can go thicker one year and be like look
00:31:39
more battery nice and then the next year you can be like look it's thinner it's lighter nice and then the next year it's thicker again look exactly so it's
00:31:45
totally fair that's literally what Corning does every single year with Gorilla yeah because there's an inverse relationship between scratch Pro and
00:31:52
crack proof and every year they're like it's 50% more scratch proof but they don't talk about how it's less crack proof and then next year they just do
00:31:58
the opposite and they do that forever can we make an exposed video does this the new dxo Mark video I'm sure there
00:32:05
are like other improvements that they're making to the glass for sure science you know anyway other thing announced at mwc
00:32:13
was the new xiaomi buds 5 Pro and these are just earbuds they look like OnePlus
00:32:20
buds Pro you know they're not that interesting looking however in October of 2023 Qualcomm unveiled the new S7 and
00:32:28
S7 Pro chipsets which are Wi-Fi earbud chipsets and the awesome thing about
00:32:35
this is that your earbuds can now connect to your home Wi-Fi so your phone can be charging in the other room and
00:32:41
you can just have music playback or audio playback coming from the cloud and
00:32:46
this makes a lot of sense because our smart home devices use Wi-Fi for playback they're not connected to your
00:32:52
phone via Bluetooth or anything like that so just being able to stream music to your earbud buds I think makes a ton
00:32:59
of sense and I'm very glad that someone is finally releasing them unfortunately right now these earbuds only work with
00:33:05
the xiaomi 15 and 15 Ultra uh they said that it might come to more phones in the future that are using
00:33:11
phone uh chipsets like the 8 gen 3 or 8 Elite but for now only these two phones
00:33:17
which kind of blows got it yeah does this feel kind of like chomecast for earbuds no it's like Sonos for your beds
00:33:23
yeah I mean chomecast is also like you pick it on one thing and send it to X
00:33:29
other device and then it's still pulling from the internet yeah yeah chomecast audio I think Tech is really cool I'm
00:33:38
struggling to picture a scenario where I'm listening to music on my earbuds and my phone is not with me I do this all
00:33:45
the time oh is it going for a run or something no well no you Wii on the run
00:33:51
right so how so you want to control the music but you don't have your phone if I'm charging my phone in the other room cuz low battery but I want do some stuff
00:33:58
in other parts of my apartment but I'm like lonely and can't like deal with
00:34:03
life without audio playing back in my head 24/7 same you're outside of Bluetooth range of your phone yeah
00:34:10
because I live in a railroad apartment where there's like walls every 5et and they're made of um that really toxic
00:34:17
material wait is this building like outside right well building is debatable I guess
00:34:24
yeah as long as the Bluetooth the buds sorry as long as the buds have good controls to like yeah you know find cuz
00:34:32
you're just on whatever playlist you're on you can't really search for song or well or can you I don't know maybe you
00:34:38
can voice I think you do I can I think you can do voice commands same as you could do on regular your buds I'm
00:34:43
basically picturing you have like a Google home attached to your head that's basically what it is okay my question here is if you go to you're listening to
00:34:50
something right you go to the room you plug in your phone yeah you're already listening to something can you just walk
00:34:56
away and it'll switch to Wi-Fi or do you have to like go into the app select like the airplay icon the CHC
00:35:01
icon when it notices your Wi-Fi network it just switches to Wi-Fi automatically because the Wi-Fi is actually more
00:35:07
efficient yeah but will it like pause the audio or stutter or anything like that that's what I'm curious about it'll
00:35:12
probably acknowledge before oh like if you walk into your apartment yeah like if you're switching Midstream good
00:35:18
question but that's what I'm I feel like that's a very minor to you my podcast cannot be interrupted okay up until
00:35:26
recently every time you would be streaming YouTube with your phone off like the screen off and then you turn
00:35:31
the screen on and it started to video playb again it would like stutter did you guys notice that I don't think I've noticed that no
00:35:39
I think I've noticed I've had a million fixed it recently they fixed it recently we now you can unlock your phone and it
00:35:44
just continues and it doesn't do the like anyway I'm just like saying it's the same kind of thing and while it's
00:35:50
minorly annoying it's not like the end of the world you know anyway I want this is this a real product this is a real
00:35:56
product okay yeah coming out with the xami 15 and 15 Ultra which also launched
00:36:02
recently so keep an eye out for that okay cool beans all right well we got a lot more to get to obviously but before
00:36:08
we do that we should take a quick break which means
00:36:14
[Music] trivia just want to say I'm really proud
00:36:20
of us for getting through that whole Nubia Music 2 segment and no one made the joke wait they made Music 2
00:36:28
it's funny sitting right there and we uh spared our audience anyway did we forget
00:36:33
about music did we it's time for music too we're going to ask a modular phone camera accessory
00:36:42
attachment question Project Ara project AR there goes the question David already
00:36:48
got it where's the point no I'm just kidding oh um we've seen plenty of these things over the years Marquez brought up
00:36:54
the Hasselblad Zoom for the Moto Moto
00:36:59
Z Z series it was bad Droid um not that one though um we've also want to give a
00:37:06
shout out to the LG cam plus grip if you remember that thing the like battery grip yeah on the G5 G5 wow the G was
00:37:15
ahead of it time too the G5 like a G5 just like that song um but it's not like
00:37:21
a oh oh true it wasn't the like a G5 it was the LG we are on it today boys
00:37:28
um the very first no way you're right God Dam sorry I'm sorry continue
00:37:35
continue no the very first uh a conversion lens attachment conversion lens that ever came out for a phone came
00:37:42
out in what year I'm not going to ask for the phone because it was only available in
00:37:48
Korea but I would would like to know the year that a smart that it's not a smartphone I guess that'll give you a
00:37:54
hint the year a phone company was like you need a wide angle slel lens
00:38:00
conversion kit for your and I'll here I'll give you another hit for your six megapixel camera
00:38:06
ooh damn dang six whole megapixels remember that this is going to be before
00:38:13
my time I'm going to guess this came out before I was reviewing anything before 1993 before I reviewed anything I'm
00:38:19
gonna guess before Ellis was born damn which is only like 13 years ago yeah long ago exactly all right all right
00:38:26
well we'll think about that the answers will be the end like usual we'll be right [Music]
00:38:40
back support for waveform comes from Shopify what's the secret to success for businesses like death wish coffee or all
00:38:48
birds is it a stellar product or a strong brand or on point marketing well
00:38:53
yes you definitely need those things but you also need something else too something to to sell your stuff enter Shopify at way formform we think a lot
00:39:00
about what makes a product worth spending your hard-earned cash on and once somebody decides they like what you're selling Shopify makes it easy for
00:39:07
them to you know buy it so Shopify is home to the number one checkout on the planet and Shop pay makes checking out a
00:39:14
cinch boosting conversions by up to 50% meaning way less carts going abandoned
00:39:19
and way more so if you want to grow your business your Commerce platform better be able to meet your customers where
00:39:26
they are so whether that's on the web or in your store or in the feed or anywhere in between businesses that want to grow
00:39:32
grow with Shopify upgrade your business and get the same checkout Death Wish coffee uses sign up for your $1 per
00:39:38
month trial period at shopify.com form all lowercase so go to shopify.com
00:39:43
form to upgrade your selling today shopify.com
00:39:49
form all right welcome back so uh this next segment is something that I've hidden
00:39:55
from you David Andrew's already this but uh it comes in this box no it doesn't this is just a box that it got shipped
00:40:02
to us in what the sigma this is a sigma camera remember last week we talked about the sigma BF and we were all
00:40:08
marveling about how cool it looked but that it might not be ergonomic to hold now we get to find out that was an
00:40:15
extremely fast turnar around you're not letting him open it oh would you yeah wow actually the chest you open it and I
00:40:22
want your first impressions cuz as far as people in this office goes you may be the one who has held the most cameras
00:40:28
that's probably true and you know are familiar with camera ergonomics so I would love you to open this box and give
00:40:34
me your immediate impressions of the ergonomics of using this camera okay Adam zoom in on my
00:40:42
face oh it's wrapped it's wrapped up oh my goodness it's not whoa okay
00:40:49
interesting all right yeah these are some First Impressions um definitely front heavy
00:40:55
mhm I'm glad that they put the little mini thumb grip on the back that is Handy uh got him uh how do you turn it
00:41:04
on that's the first thing all of us struggled with one of the five buttons is the power button oh I don't tell I
00:41:10
want never mind he knows now the one that looks like a record button as the power button yes that's nice yes okay so
00:41:16
ooh okay LCD is better than I anticipated sub LCD is very cool
00:41:24
looking okay have any of us used this out doors yet no I don't think so cuzz I
00:41:29
don't know how this LCD does like in sunlight started recording when I hit when I did that how do you switch it to
00:41:36
shooting mode instead of video mode I think the three dots is mode this
00:41:42
is extremely hard to figure out people have been comparing this design to teenage engineering a lot or like the
00:41:49
sort of aesthetic and uh this is exactly what it looks like when someone uses a teenage engineering product for the first time too like how do I use this
00:41:57
this like it's beautiful but I don't really know how to use it I figured it out s single capture and then how do you look at the oh it's playback okay ooh
00:42:04
okay oh oh oh oh okay yeah okay this is
00:42:10
the perfect example for a teenage engineering it's like I'm confused I'm
00:42:16
confused I'm confused 10 seconds later I'm elated I am delighted by the quality
00:42:21
of one shot already it the colors are really true to life really accurate 24
00:42:27
megapixel seems totally reasonable and actually I am a proponent of lower
00:42:32
megapixel High larger sensor which this is full frame 24 megap but I want to
00:42:38
steer you a little bit back to the way that you're holding it it's not focusing and the way it feels slash like holds
00:42:47
okay yes so you have to hold it by holding the lens with your left hand otherwise it just doesn't work it's kind
00:42:54
of sharp is it not yeah like the corner of it yeah they they rounded the bottom right corner a little bit but it's still
00:43:01
sharp at the edge yeah um yeah that's a great point a lot of camera manufacturers try to make it so you can
00:43:07
do most of the things with just one hand yeah uh this is not that you have to
00:43:13
hold it with two hands and this is probably one of the smaller lenses can you do me a favor yes can you turn the
00:43:19
aperture dial in front of the mic oh it's so good do it in front of
00:43:24
the mic so it up let pick it up yum it's nice oh my goodness and if you
00:43:31
actually point it if you actually point at the camera they can see the aperture open and close it's a nice little thing that they've done with this lens oh my
00:43:37
God it's beautiful yeah so the lens inside it's a nice lens that we've got on it it's also silver so for those who
00:43:42
are are listening and you want to picture this it's a full silver aluminum camera with an also full silver which
00:43:48
also appears to be aluminum lens uh with a manual aperture ring that
00:43:54
has clicked stops it's I actually think this is a digital apertur ring with click stops because correct controller
00:44:02
and it takes a second a that's what I was just trying when the aperture does open it's very smooth and beautiful
00:44:07
which is nice oh God am I coming around to this so this is what happened to almost all of us here is the first
00:44:13
impression was like wow this is a cold piece of metal yeah the second impression I don't know if you've noticed by now it starts to get a little
00:44:19
bit warm like the entire aluminum body is a heat sink which is kind of interesting and then you are reminded so
00:44:25
it kind of comes back around you're like oh it's nice it's got this this nice feel takes pictures well and then you're reminded of all the downsides that we
00:44:32
talked about last week which is one no SD card slot internal storage only okay
00:44:38
two that battery at the bottom yeah super proprietary right um You just got
00:44:44
to get more of those at least it comes out three no viewfinder so you have to
00:44:49
use the screen for everything have you used it outside we haven't tried that yet okay and then four this is something
00:44:55
you might not have noticed yet but those buttons on on the back are not real buttons they are haptic buttons no way
00:45:00
really so turn the camera off and try pressing any of the buttons how do you turn it off again so that same power button hold it down for like two seconds
00:45:06
right the record buttons the power button it turns off and then try pressing any of the buttons while it's off they don't move it's completely fake
00:45:13
that's crazy yeah I didn't I didn't know that until I was like messing around with them trying to feel how clicky they were and the camera was off and I was
00:45:19
like wait these are not real buttons wow that is in incredibly deceptive so the haptics are actually good it's just like
00:45:24
the MacBook Pro touchpad very Apple like wow that's like legitimately
00:45:29
unbelievable like I'm pressing it and I'm like no that's real and then I turn it off and it's not doing anything can
00:45:35
you I haven't seen this yet pass turn it on well I off first I think turn it on
00:45:41
first so you feel it and then turn it off I will say I don't have that much of a problem with having to use two hands
00:45:48
to take photos because uh I like cameras with aperture uh Rings anyway yep and so
00:45:55
I I'm usually holding it like this because I often change the aperture in order to take a thing a lot of cameras have added control ring a lot of lenses
00:46:02
have added control Rings yeah in the RF World especially I like that I do Iris control with the ring on Canon RF
00:46:08
cameras Ellis what do you think about the the fake button the record button is a real button no that's not a record
00:46:14
button well you're the bottom button is the only real moving button okay okay yeah oh really yeah oh and then the rest
00:46:20
are fake okay what you felt it before right and it felt like a this is the first time I've held this camera but what I'm saying is like did you just try
00:46:26
whenn it was turned on pressing the buttons above the record button like what there's no way this is pretty
00:46:32
unbelievable is the shutter button that's real that shutter button on top is a real shutter button it actually
00:46:37
moves there is like a little bit of give to these like it's not like it's just I mean it's almost fairly solid dude you
00:46:44
guys are not kidding this thing is sharp yeah like you could like grate
00:46:50
a block of cheese or something I would kind of worry about having it like on a strap and having it Knocking into things
00:46:55
well boy do I have good news for you there's no lugs there is a strap lug on the right a little lanyard lanyard lug
00:47:03
yeah it is uh so I mean we haven't shot with it very much yet but I I'll have a couple more observations one is the
00:47:10
camera weighs about a pound without a lens on it okay it was funny I made a short about it and I was looking up
00:47:16
things that weigh about a pound so can of soup is what I referenced in the video um and one of the top comments was
00:47:23
like Americans will use anything but the metric you're right it's a can of soup okay but
00:47:28
how many micro meters or whatever does it weigh I don't know what is that kilograms how many kilograms is a pound
00:47:35
it's one pound but it's it's dense and it really feels like high quality like you were talking about like weight feels
00:47:41
like quality oh my goodness and I don't know I I there's a lot of cameras that are this size like Sony a6000 you can
00:47:49
get a lot of good camera for this exact size of camera so if you're after just having a small compact camera that's
00:47:54
this size you can get a great camera camera weird battery weird battery yeah yeah that's true and so if you get an
00:48:01
a6000 you have a viewfinder you have all the Sony lens system you have uh you
00:48:07
know 4K video great low light performance like you get a lot we also
00:48:12
you do have to note that the lenses are like $2,000 I was just going to say how much is that specific Lens two grand uh
00:48:18
I think you're right the camera body itself is $2,000 and then the lenses are each in the range of several ,000
00:48:25
there's a $2,000 lens there's a $6,000 lens there's some crazy lens I'm telling you this is like the the poor man's
00:48:32
Leica that's what I'm saying which is crazy to say for that mice we a lot of
00:48:38
yeah well Leica bodies are like $9,000 just for the body so but wow I just
00:48:43
don't know lyas are bigger too right um not by a lot mostly because they have
00:48:49
viewfinders true that's actually lot of the size of it yeah wow okay well I am I
00:48:55
got I do have to say I am Delight I am much more delighted than I thought I would be also this sub LCD screen that
00:49:02
just does a lot of cool things I very delighted by and the shutter button feels really good MH yeah yeah dang got
00:49:09
some nice shots out of it we didn't get to see the Black Version yeah I think it's safe to say the silver lens on Silver body looks crazy good so good I
00:49:17
can't imagine the Black Version being better yeah yeah Sigma if you're listening send us all one I would like
00:49:23
to play I would like to play with one more more
00:49:28
forever forever yeah I spent like a solid 30 minutes on Monday just like taking
00:49:34
pictures with that thing and it was it was pretty fun I really want to like try this in the field yeah bring it to
00:49:41
southp out here in the field I'll bring the South by bring sou I'll let people see it yeah all right I'll bring it out there okay cool very cool so yeah just
00:49:48
want to show that for a little bit I will say why didn't they make the lens cap silver it's just that is really
00:49:54
annoying kind sad out I didn't bring it but there's another lens that had a magnetic lens cap so it's not even like
00:50:01
the pinch plastic it's literally just a metal magnet lens cap and you can put it on the back of an iPhone and it sticks
00:50:07
to it like mag safe except the 16e except that's true are are we Pro or
00:50:14
anti- magnetic lens cap I couldn't tell from that I thought it was Pro as hell yeah yeah yeah have you ever dve have you ever been on the subway and you try
00:50:19
to take off like on the subway platform and you try to take off one of the Pinchy lens caps and one finger slips
00:50:25
and so the lens just go like well if that's in the tracks I hope not like have fun with it rats surf on
00:50:32
it and stuff yeah interesting well yeah I'm um consider me impressed consider me
00:50:38
impressed all right very nice I know what else is impressive what I don't think they
00:50:43
released anything else this week Segways segue Segways are impress seg the new Macbook Air M4 droing for
00:50:52
less money than the last MacBook Air really all right this is actually yeah yeah pry actually cool pretty good
00:50:58
announcement so so MacBook airs we've reviewed the last couple and they have graduated to Apple silicon and they've
00:51:03
become very very easy standard Baseline do you want a laptop this is the one you
00:51:10
should probably get type recommendations M and they'd been $999 for a while and then they bumped up I think around the
00:51:16
M2 generation to$ 1099 base and they'd still continue to improve it I think it's doubled in Ram it's 128 gigs of
00:51:23
Base storage now I think um which is 256 256 okay so these specs keep getting
00:51:28
better it keeps getting more powerful this is an M4 update of the Bas MacBook
00:51:33
Air and it's gone back down to $9.99 not for nothing that's pretty good
00:51:40
like this is again like the sort of default Mac that you can recommend to just about anyone who just needs a laptop to do basic stuff right uh it's
00:51:46
funny because I end up reviewing these things and almost nobody buying a MacBook Air should get it to like edit
00:51:53
videos or do anything crazy but the M chips are so good that you kind of can do that anyway totally can so we get to
00:51:59
this weird place where I'm reviewing a MacBook Air and like trying video editing on it and it's like what am I
00:52:05
doing here I guess I could do this but you don't really buy it for that it's that capable I think this is another one
00:52:10
of those laptops it's going to have good battery life there's still a 13 and a 15inch version it's just a
00:52:16
solid solid laptop nothing amazing about the screen it's still a 60 HZ scen like nothing nothing's going to blow you out
00:52:22
the water it's just a solid base laptop you know what's my favorite thing about it it's reports two external displays
00:52:28
now yeah shout out to M4 that's 2 6K external which is funny cuz like if you're doing a MacBook Air are you also
00:52:34
doing 2 6K external display your name is wait wait I know this person this is so
00:52:41
funny okay yeah I know someone this is hilarious she is a filmmaker uhhuh but
00:52:47
she so she does not edit video but she does need to receive editing projects to
00:52:52
like review them in proxies and maybe make like small adjustments here and there so she does need a video card that
00:52:58
won't just like sh the bed and I do know her home setup has two displays so
00:53:04
specifically needs quality displays but still needs to be able to
00:53:09
make very basic video editing moves this person is real I know her this is
00:53:16
hilarious this is good this is does she really really like the smallest amount of blue possible the smallest cuz that
00:53:23
is the new color of this one I I could I could see her being into it okay yeah
00:53:28
there is that new color is it called Blue Sky Blue I think sky this is like the silver like they didn't finish
00:53:35
running the finishing machine and there's still a little bit of blue left the story gets even funnier because a
00:53:40
week or three weeks ago she was like what computer should I get and I was like you should get a MacBook Air and she was like shouldn't I just like wait
00:53:47
for the new one that's probably going to come out in a few weeks and I was like I don't know I guess I can't be that much
00:53:52
better boy was I wrong now she's sending you this clip good job for waiting yeah
00:53:58
no that's it's funny cuz Apple demos these like setups with like an iPad Pro and a 6K xdr display and they're like
00:54:03
come on this is a real person right and I'm like is it though but you know this MacBook Air this is at least one real
00:54:10
person 6K also I used to have an M1 MacBook Air and I used to edit red raw
00:54:15
footage on it which is not the typical buyer of a MacBook Air yeah but you can it wasn't as performant but it was
00:54:22
doable you know which is amazing which is crazy I will say these things to slow down a little bit once you run out of
00:54:28
storage because they use a lot of swap memory uh but they both upgraded the memory to 16 gbes of ram which and you
00:54:36
know famously will be completely eaten alive by Adobe programs yeah but 256 gig
00:54:42
of storage is better as well so yeah also no need to fear they have apple intelligence I know you all wondering
00:54:48
it's going to be a Common Thread built for Apple intelligence just so you're you're up to speed why great why uh does
00:54:56
she need Apple intelligence she needs gen Emoji obviously uh no there's also some other Mac updates as well this week
00:55:03
so that was that was the Tuesday update now or sorry the iPad Air was Tuesday the iPad which weed talk the MacBook Air
00:55:10
also comes with Mac Studio updates today MH Max studio updates are a little more nuanced there are two new flavors there
00:55:18
is an M3 and there's chipot Ultra and then there's the
00:55:24
M4 Max yeah so if you want a Max Level
00:55:30
chip M4 generation if you want an ultra level chip Which is higher than Max M3
00:55:38
Ultra so there is no M4 Ultra yet M3 Ultra is the new most powerful chip
00:55:43
we've ever seen from Apple I don't know how far away we are from M4 Ultra but I assume that that will be coming up
00:55:49
eventually in M5 Mac Pro we're also around the corner from M5 yeah so could
00:55:55
be interesting to buy an M3 Ultra chip the same year that M5 comes out this has kind of become a staggered or an M4 oh
00:56:03
is it coming out this year M5 I think so oh yeah probably because it's November or something yeah so I think yeah it's
00:56:09
this might deserve an explain video at some point but it's kind of become this like staggering wave of new Chips as
00:56:15
they came out it's not like we got the entire M4 lineup at once we got M4 base
00:56:20
M4 Pro and M4 Max in the laptops now we have M4 Max in the Max studio but no M4
00:56:26
Ultra so if you want an ultra chip you can get M3 Ultra M4 Ultra will probably be coming soon but by that time M5 base
00:56:33
is going to come out somewhere and it's like this rolling system it needs a visual understood that I'm saying to a
00:56:39
microphone and it sounds like I'm just blabbering this needs a visual I literally needed you to draw it out for I know I had to like diagram it so yeah
00:56:46
we'll this may be a video we'll see um but realized this morning that I think
00:56:51
Max is the dumbest name possible because it's not the highest one is high wait a
00:56:58
second the the the description of the word maximum is the greatest or highest
00:57:03
amount possible or attained and then they're like let's double it go off yeah
00:57:09
this is true that is very true max plus you know yeah what yeah Pro Max yeah Pro
00:57:15
Max that is the but that is that is the Max Pro Max is the max you can get sizewise and actually it makes sense
00:57:21
because the big regular iPhone is just called the plus so are you saying that in MA ma Max is not the max that is also
00:57:29
very confusing maybe I was so confused ma Max is not Max correct Ultra as long as we're on
00:57:35
the same page Ultra is more max than Max on the max in Max yeah in the max but outside
00:57:42
of Max Max is Max yeah because it's Pro Max well there's something wrong with my
00:57:48
brain because I understood that yeah perfect uh yeah no that's kind of it
00:57:53
that's our that's our Mac update I think I never want hear that word again yeah I want to review the uh new we didn't talk
00:58:00
about the iPad do you want to do it really quick because that's about all there is to it okay we can also do the
00:58:05
iPad there is a new iPad it's got the M3 chip iPad Air beautiful that's kind of all that's new right maybe double the
00:58:12
ram it's built for Apple intelligence excuse me built for Apple intelligence sick it's a new chip it has these these
00:58:19
colors it's it's neat it exactly the same the new magic keyboard for it has function rows and a larger trackpad
00:58:24
which I do think is actually good and I believe is cheaper it's cheaper but it's still way too expensive is it $50
00:58:31
cheaper or something $269 and $319 it's a little bit cheaper but it's so
00:58:37
expensive so that came out and there's also a new Bas iPad it's still
00:58:43
329 and it has a new a16 chip and doesn't support apple
00:58:50
intelligence maybe that's the one to get I guess that's a gated feature now
00:58:56
no apple intelligence for the Baseline iPad but it does have the newest not the newest it does have a newer it has an a
00:59:01
Ser chip right a16 yeah A6 generation so which is one one old or no twoo old too
00:59:08
old cuz we're on A8 we're on A8 so that makes sense that I wouldn't support apple Indulgence that's correct why not put the you just put the a18 in the $600
00:59:17
iPhone maybe that's too pricey for the $300
00:59:22
iPad can you help me understand I'm so confused is Gen mooji Apple intelligence
00:59:28
it is it is and then and then the the new Siri Siri GPT is also Apple
00:59:33
intelligence eventually when that comes out yeah but like the chat gbt like integration into that is also Apple
00:59:40
that's also Apple intelligence and also not here yet or that is here that's Apple intelligence it's here yeah is Apple intelligence in the room with us
00:59:46
right now yeah so like it's just like okay so what they mean when they say it's built for Apple intelligence they
00:59:51
mean you can do J emoji on it yeah so I did a review of like all of the
00:59:57
currently available Apple intelligence features and the list is not very long right now okay notification summary but
01:00:04
it is like a promise it's an i of like you will get these features it's growing
01:00:09
it's growing with iOS updates so as of right now if you have a device that supports Apple intelligence writing
01:00:16
tools summarization for reconstruct the notification notification summaries gen
01:00:23
mooji is in there remember the image playground where you can no I'm starting to understand that's
01:00:28
that's all Apple intelligence is at this point it's not it's not really a buying
01:00:33
it's really people yeah they said there was going to be a super cycle of people buying AI phones where smartphones would
01:00:41
be back baby yeah no when does the Apple Roadster come
01:00:47
out soon I will BR I'll bring up one more device since we're talking about AI
01:00:52
I reviewed the nothing phone 3A and 3A Pro this week oh yeah and and those phones really don't have much AI at all
01:00:59
like if you followed nothing phones for the past couple years they have not done the like uh remove an part of your image
01:01:05
from the background thing they have not done writing tools or notification summaries or any of this AI stuff they
01:01:11
did something better so you can have uh Gemini and all the basic stuff but the
01:01:16
one thing they did on these nothing phones that is AI is they added a button to the side of the phone yeah and uh as
01:01:22
I described in the video it's it's literally just like a a place where you store stuff it's like I've described it uh
01:01:30
like Google screenshots app on steroids it's fine it works it allows you to
01:01:36
parse information from the screenshot and save some of it so if you want to search back for an old screenshot it's
01:01:42
easy to remember and find you can attach voice notes to things you save by holding the button down but that's kind
01:01:48
of all it really does it's not backed up anywhere it's not going to sink across devices it's kind of just like built into your phone the essential space is
01:01:55
what it's called essal space yeah but notably it's the nothing phone not the essential phone that's true yeah so yeah
01:02:02
I thought it was interesting they have said it's going to be upgraded in the coming months to have more features yes just like everyone else in all of their
01:02:09
AI promises yes wow someone's got a grudge well you know that's also what
01:02:14
Apple intelligence is doing and that's also what the rabbit's doing the best thing about Apple intelligence is that it forced Apple to put 16 gigs of ram in
01:02:21
every actually the best honestly yeah that's a that's a fact yeah but now here
01:02:26
we are we got new iPads we got new Macbook Air we got new Mac Studio we got new AI new nothing and new nothing the
01:02:34
nothing phones are quite good value though 379 for the 3A in the US anyway
01:02:40
that's crazy it's pretty good that's so good also have to acknowledge that there's now a 3A Pro mhm and the a
01:02:48
series was supposed to be the cheaper version of the standard number so where does the there's going to be a three
01:02:55
that hasn't come out yet correct it's kind of like the M3 Ultra yeah I assume the nothing phone 3 when it comes out
01:03:01
will be a quote Flagship and it will cost more than the 3A and the 3A Pro yeah it will probably be in the 56 $700
01:03:08
range yeah and it'll probably have a better chip and yeah we don't know when that's coming Carl has said specifically
01:03:15
that it is going to be an AI focused phone and I really wonder if that means that they're just going to lean harder
01:03:21
into the button and if that's the main thing or if it's going to be even more
01:03:27
AI like catching up with all the Samsung stuff uh maybe like drawing something in your picture and then it being a sketch
01:03:33
or something I don't know like it's more notification summar yeah do you like the
01:03:39
button being like totally different than all the other buttons so the button is in a place right next to the power
01:03:45
button where it is very very easy to press it accidentally all the time yeah and it's like like bulging out and not
01:03:52
flat I don't like how it looks it doesn't look great but the fact that it is domed and feels different from the
01:03:58
power button at least helps me press it accidentally less often because it's
01:04:04
right next to the power button but it is still annoying and I press it accidentally all the time I take screenshots of my home screen every day
01:04:12
so that's a thing uh have they said what the essential space is like for you know
01:04:19
uh not any more than we have kind of store stuff in it you can't like ask your phone about the stuff in the space
01:04:25
Oh no no yeah so so like I said the screenshots app on steroids like the screenshots app is supposed to be able to like parse through and sort through
01:04:31
all the stuff that it finds in your screenshots so this is the same way and if you have an event that you took a
01:04:37
screenshot of the event page it will remind you of that event when it comes up or if you have a voice note and you
01:04:44
say remind me to buy tickets for this tomorrow it will set a to-do action in
01:04:50
this app to revisit this screenshot so you can buy tickets to the event
01:04:55
question yeah couldn't you just tell like Siri or Google Assistant yes cool
01:05:03
yes okay I think it sounds cool but I also was the only person who likes the screenshot app I feel like I love it I
01:05:09
think this is like a to-do list app built into your phone they do need like you said Marquez crossplatform
01:05:15
functionality if they get a Mac app and a Windows app I think that's enough that
01:05:20
would be so sick I agree I just can't hold my breath for it I don't think it's coming anytime soon
01:05:26
are you while you're using this phone are you like that should go in the essential space and you put it in there
01:05:31
it's more of just like reminders and things I need to remember later why wouldn't you just use your reminder that
01:05:37
well cuz I mean this is a button on the side of the phone so it kind of is encouraging you to remember more things so I'm just texting someone and oh I got
01:05:44
to remember to answer this text later let me just hit the thing save it and tell tell myself later what I want to do
01:05:50
doesn't Google messages have a remind me to answer this text feature yes individual apps have versions of these
01:05:57
features but it all being built into one Hub is maybe the nice thing okay uh yeah
01:06:03
so some people are going to be know that yeah cuz the reminders app if you want to set a reminder it's just
01:06:08
text canach anything to your associated with the screenshot that it takes at the time as well so you can be like remind
01:06:16
me to buy this for Claire on her birthday for her birthday or something like that and then and then it's like
01:06:23
CLA birthday presents I can probably search and find all the times I had said this is something that might work for
01:06:29
good birthday you can build collections which are kind of like folders so okay well I'm going to try it more I feel
01:06:35
like it's the best use of an AI on a phone thus far besides like Circle to search yeah oh I love Circle search
01:06:41
Circle to search is Iconic but this is pretty close Google Google Now on tap
01:06:46
yeah exact I love Google Now on tap too it's just rebranded yeah so yeah okay
01:06:53
okay that's the nothing phones we should take another quick break we got a little more to get through but before we do
01:07:00
that some trivia [Music] questions we're going along so how many
01:07:07
transistors does the M1 have go oh I know this transistors M1 M1 M1 original
01:07:14
you know this well I've been researching in specific oh yeah wa I'm still going
01:07:20
to get it wrong though okay we'll think about that anwers at the end later we'll be right
01:07:25
back [Music]
01:07:37
support for waveform comes from netw Suite it takes a lot of guts to run your own business because you never know what the future has in store for you when
01:07:44
will a bull market turn into a bare Market when will inflation start to drop uh and when will rates rise and fall and
01:07:50
rise again if only there were a crystal ball but in the meantime there's netw Suite by Oracle so almost 40,000
01:07:57
companies choose net Suite to help future proof their business so they can stay on track no matter what tomorrow
01:08:02
brings net Suite is a toprated cloud Erp bringing accounting financial management
01:08:09
inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one single source of Truth netsuite
01:08:14
offers real-time insights and data that you can use to make the right decisions at the right time so whether your
01:08:20
company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions netsuite can help you respond to immediate challenges and
01:08:25
seese opportunities speaking of opportunity download the cfo's guide to Ai and machine learning at netsuite.com
01:08:32
form the guide is free to you at nets.com form netsuite.com form support
01:08:38
for waveform comes from Kota picture this you're starting a new project at work and your vision is clear you know
01:08:44
exactly who's doing what and where to find the data you need to do your part in fact you don't have to waste time
01:08:50
searching for anything because everything your team needs from Project trackers and okay KRS to documents and
01:08:57
spreadsheets lives in one tab no this isn't a fantasy and it's not a dream either and it can all exist in Kota with
01:09:04
kota's collaborative all-in-one workspace you get the flexibility of docs the structure of spreadsheets and
01:09:10
the power of applications and the intelligence of AI in one easy to organize tab Koda connects tools and
01:09:17
teams so you spend less time Switching gears that means no more searching for the right piece of data or trying to
01:09:22
remember that one flag your cooworker said not to forget Kota makes everything easily accessible so you can focus on
01:09:28
the bigger creative questions without sweating the small stuff more than 50,000 teams trust Kota to keep them
01:09:33
more line and focused so to try it for yourself go to coda.io swave today and get started for free so that's c o d a.
01:09:42
iWave to get started for free coda.io wve welcome back uh I have a family
01:09:51
specifically David Amel and by that I mean we share a YouTube premium account we do you're in my family yeah is this
01:09:59
recent no oh God this is like what as soon as I started working here legal I
01:10:05
don't know continue but uh so we only pay like $3 a month or something for brother for YouTube premium it's dirty
01:10:11
cheap but um if uh if that if you wanted to pay more than that but less than it
01:10:16
actually costs there's now an option there's a new tier in the US yeah tier
01:10:22
that's the right word yeah correct wow it's called YouTube premium light it
01:10:27
makes sense when you think about it YouTube premium gets you no ads and
01:10:34
offline downloads yeah and YouTube music what and I think wait stop really yeah
01:10:42
yeah it's always coming with it's a deal bro you have been paying for this not even using it it's good ell you get free
01:10:48
YouTube either uh it's good so but if you and also there's like um offline playback I think there's another there's
01:10:53
like a picture and picture feature a couple little like turn your screen off your screen off and it's continue to play back so that's great that all comes
01:10:59
with paying for YouTube premium but if all you really care about is no ads now there's a new tier that's just YouTube
01:11:04
premium light and that's no ads on non-music videos so if you don't listen to music
01:11:10
on YouTube You're a Spotify Apple music person you can only pay eight bucks a month in the US for YouTube premium
01:11:17
light and still get ad for YouTube wait there's ads on music videos yes yes why
01:11:23
because more expensive oh you got to pay like YouTube has to pay for the licensing that would be my
01:11:30
guess for licensing on those also YouTube is an extremely popular music streaming platform so maybe the most
01:11:37
popular can I tell a really funny story yeah I when I got my iPod touch and was
01:11:43
must have been like seventh grade or something like that I distinctly remember uh getting it re seeing the
01:11:50
YouTube app on it m and the first thought I had was
01:11:55
why did I waste 99 of my hard-earned scents on Kanye West's heartless when I
01:12:01
could listen to it for free whever I am with this oh yeah the the YouTube logo
01:12:08
on the iPod Touch was a TV yeah remember that cuz it was old it was like an analog TV mhm you guys got the iPod
01:12:14
Touch in seventh grade I got it God no because the iPhone came out in
01:12:22
2007 yeah I got it after after the iPhone came out cuz I couldn't get the iPhone as I was in
01:12:28
sixth grade I want to say I was in actually high school I have like an even funnier story about this because I got
01:12:35
it because as I mentioned on a previous episode my parents were really anti- kids having cell phones they were like
01:12:40
Ellis should not have one of these but I was a pretty independent kid and needed to let my mom know where I was a lot of
01:12:47
the time and so my mom read somewhere that you could get texting apps like like old text over Wi-Fi apps for the
01:12:54
iPod touch but I don't know if my parents fully understood what Wi-Fi
01:12:59
was yeah yeah so yeah in my school in in high school like all the kids that
01:13:05
didn't have smartphones just had iPods and they were able to do iPod Touches and were able to do all the same things
01:13:11
did you have a did you have pal Ringo what's that oh my God pal Ringo was this crazy it was essentially wolf um what's
01:13:19
that that's not a real sentence from the office this guy no but it's essentially like it was this app that could unite
01:13:25
all of your different messaging accounts into one inbox including all of the
01:13:31
weird off brand texting over Wi-Fi apps oh um so yeah I can get my as my my
01:13:39
sms's my Facebook Messengers that was kind of all there was back then uh All
01:13:44
In My Pal Ringo inbox yeah IOD touch came out in 2007 as well yeah that's the
01:13:50
first piece of tech I ever actually owned oh and it got stolen like a week
01:13:55
dang I spent like my life savings on mine same I got I was like the happiest kid ever for a week and it got stolen
01:14:01
and I was the got stolen a week yeah that sucks bro yeah I got it I like brought it into school cuz I'm an idiot
01:14:08
and then I like had it stolen out of my locker and then uh yeah was like my life savings is gone I can't even listen to
01:14:14
music or anything financially recover from yeah yeah that was tough well did it have YouTube premium light on it no
01:14:20
but you know some kid out there could get that now would be great uh dude someone out there has Marquez
01:14:27
browny's iPod touch that makes sad and doesn't even know it's probably e-w by now some definitely some high school
01:14:35
thief in my head they're still a high school Thief they never grew up yeah they never
01:14:40
Biff you know yeah deep reference anyway I missed that one is there anything else
01:14:45
about YouTube premium light that we missed um in the coming weeks they will also make it available to users in the
01:14:51
current pilot countries which include Thailand Germany Australia and also that
01:14:57
YouTube music and premium reach over 125 million subscribers globally when you include trial users which is a very
01:15:03
funny Amendment yeah that is wow uh but it will expand to additional countries later this year last thing Google F just
01:15:12
got an update let's go uh not Google that got sorry T-Mobile nvos yeah have
01:15:18
uh worked with apple I guess in order to make this iOS 18.2 Beta Support RCs with
01:15:25
them 184 sorry 184 I meant to write four 18.4 beta Sports RCS so if you're a
01:15:30
Google file user and you have the iOS 18.4 beta flip that switch baby RCS is
01:15:35
gonna work on phone just the greatest all right you're you're a Google file user right yep you've been waiting yep
01:15:42
I've been a Google F user for a very long time me too I have been screaming into the void for a very long time the
01:15:47
void has answered the void has finally answered here have this beta
01:15:52
yeah have the sigma there was a uh there was this report that Apple was the one
01:16:00
that was basically holding back releasing the ability for nbmos to be
01:16:06
able to use Google uh to be able to use RCS yeah and now they've finally done it in the beta so I'm extremely excited I
01:16:13
can I finally turned it on yesterday and my life is 100 times better oh you're already on the beta oh I'm number one
01:16:20
ask why' I even ask of course yeah I was the the alpha beta user Adam go ahead and get get get cracking on that
01:16:25
download yeah I'm literally about to turn on betas right now yeah so thank
01:16:31
you wait public beta or developer beta de developer beta developer beta is beta
01:16:37
iOS 18.4 beta 2 yeah I'm on the public beta
01:16:42
so I'm on 18.3 I think wow which is still fine I've just been like waiting for the new Siri and I don't I don't
01:16:49
know man I don't know when that's coming I don't know when that's coming the developer beta is fine I haven't had any issues with at all I sometimes have
01:16:56
battery issues so I just need to like pay attention yeah but it's fine well to all my five users out there who are on
01:17:02
the iPhone which is like three of us hell yeah brother I got one more request for fi let us attach the Apple
01:17:10
watch you can't do it the cellular can't do it what about a can you attach a pixel watch you can for free for free so
01:17:16
do it you don't even have to pay if you're on Google F pixel watch cellular free well is that still the case cuz I
01:17:23
know it was when it came out but I'm not sure that's okay it's really funny actually yeah like you have a
01:17:29
pixel dude yeah it's free you can use it yeah that's great all right I think that
01:17:35
covers it look there's going to be more announcements it's like the end of mwc and the beginning of South by and
01:17:41
there's just a bunch more announcements and Tech things happening so stay tuned keep it locked as they say get
01:17:47
subscribed if you haven't already I think radio people say that oh yeah I don't know why I said it keep lock 96.9
01:17:54
yeah locked here on wfrm which kind of sounds like a radio station uh but we
01:17:59
should wrap it up by finding out the answers to those trivia
01:18:08
questions I'm pretty sure back in the day of radios that had knobs and dials
01:18:14
and stuff you could lock the dial so that no one could change the station but
01:18:21
I am not old enough I could not confirm that but it makes that's hardcore I I I
01:18:26
have listened to a lot of terrestrial radio in my day but I I've never had one with a knob dude especially when you had
01:18:32
to like fine tune it because it was just the the little dial thing I would
01:18:38
definitely lock that cuz you go over a speed bump and it's like you know yeah talking about some
01:18:45
old people's stuff who else but us all right question number one modular phone camera
01:18:52
accessories year I was wrong in the beginning I said
01:18:58
6 megapixel and I meant did I say megapixel wrong it just fell out of my mouth and felt in congruous earlier I
01:19:06
said six megapixels and I meant seven megapixels what phone no what year did
01:19:13
this phone come out in and it had a telephoto conversion lens and a wide
01:19:20
angle conversion lens and both of them looked really silly
01:19:26
and bad and n it was unbelievable how much better
01:19:32
quality film was back in the day I can see why they thought digital would never catch on yeah at like with like 2
01:19:38
megapixel camera yeah yeah yeah all right oh okay oh I did not say if we
01:19:46
were doing closest Delta or Price is Right rules true so we will do closest Delta but Mar let me see your real quick
01:19:53
oh that's 2008 all right so is that an MA Max tiip on the
01:19:58
right yeah yeah God damn it you you mother did we split it this
01:20:07
is 2006 you did split it if we're doing closest so we all get we all get the point6 but if we do Price's right rules
01:20:14
only two of you get it that would be mean that would be mean that would be great I'm down for everyone gets a point
01:20:21
well you get a point either way so let's not of course everyone everyone gets a point everyone gets a point the answer
01:20:27
was obviously 2006 2006 Andrew and I both put 2004 the phone was the Samsung
01:20:36
v770 huh never heard of it someone will correct us yeah and if I'm wrong no I'm
01:20:42
not he's only wrong if it goes lower quick update on the score after those
01:20:47
correct answers Marquez with eight catching up what Andrew with five miss a
01:20:54
week or something David with 11 nope nope a healthy lead has become a little more sickly let's do
01:21:01
another one how many transistors does the original M1 Chip have closest Delta
01:21:07
or uh without going over without going over Price is Right yeah rules pric is Right rules cuz we did Delta last time
01:21:14
so this time I'll do closest Delta I'm going to be so
01:21:19
wrong you say that but if you just pick an absurd number you might be right
01:21:25
that's true I'm trying to remember this is
01:21:31
right all right flip them and read I thought I was going over and I'm
01:21:37
the lowest by four billion wait so what did you say 1 billion you said 1 billion
01:21:43
yeah okay I said 40 billion 40 billion marus um right in the middle 9 and a
01:21:48
half billion so if we're doing right horrible answer that is a horrible answer
01:21:55
uh Marquez gets the point the correct answer is 16 billion on the original M1
01:22:02
you were closer also mhm 16 billion yeah yeah yeah that sounds more the M1 Ultra
01:22:08
or Pro I forget which one had like 33.7 billion so you were close if we were
01:22:13
doing the other one but it was the base chip right the little square I didn't realize that I thought it was the ultra
01:22:19
all right so what do you know are your lead is shrinking David how do you feel only David and I getting points on the
01:22:26
first one no I kind of liked all getting points the node size is also shrinking so one day I will be correct man that's
01:22:33
true thank you but hey until then how it's make any no because you can well
01:22:39
sure but there will be 40 billion on a on a MacBook chip at some point I think the bet the M4 Ultra no the M the M2 Max
01:22:46
has 143 billion doesn't it on the whole so Jesus that seems like a fact checking
01:22:52
time M3 Ultra 184 billion apple.com so I'm just wrong what about the
01:23:00
okay that's the ultra though what about the pro uh we can narrow down and find one that's close to your number I don't
01:23:06
think that makes it right um but yeah we learned something today okay uh what
01:23:11
about the second trivia question that was it oh right that was cuz the phone it's it's great yeah
01:23:18
I'm with the phone thing did we all get it or did just we all got it
01:23:24
that's been it thanks for watching thanks for listening South see you at South by if we not at South by see you
01:23:31
at the next regularly scheduled episode if we're not at South by at sou we definitely if they're not sorry I wasn't
01:23:37
clear if you're not at South by you The Listener uh well we'll catch you on the feed but see you at the next episode
01:23:43
catch you later peace wa for spru by adamen and Ellis Ren we're partner with VX media podast by yeah I don't think I
01:23:50
can name all the planet still true [Music]
01:24:08
Mercury Venus Earth and Saturn
01:24:13
Uranus Pluto was the furthest planet from the Sun but then it got toed
