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foreign [Music] what is up people of the internet welcome back to another episode of the waveform podcast we're your hosts I'm
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Marquez I'm Andrew and I'm David and in today's episode we're going to talk about we're going to live follow what
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happens on Twitter for the next 45 minutes and that's all we're going to talk about just kidding that would be impossible everything would be outdated
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by the time this goes live uh no we're going to talk about some interesting Concepts actually uh how xiaomi put out
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this little idea of some some extra camera lenses on a smartphone how it might be kind of cool also how Apple may
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have made noise cancellation worse you might have seen some headlines about that we're going to talk about it and also what in the world is matter but
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first no seriously let's talk about Twitter for a second just a second just like
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it's been absolute chaos so uh from the top of the show the reason we're not talking about Twitter all the time is
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number one I made a video which I think concisely summarizes my general thoughts
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on Twitter what I have seen what I'm hoping to see and that someone who really likes Twitter uh some suggestions
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it's like a cry out to like please don't don't die Twitter there are like whenever I make a product suggestion I find that there are real product managers who like work on these products
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that see these things obviously elon's in charge of Twitter but there's still people who work on Twitter stuff that like take suggestions and Elon does
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follow me on Twitter so I was just like here's the here's the stuff I'm seeing and what I'm thinking and then if I try
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to like cover all the updates of things that are changing on Twitter since then I would never be up to date because
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there's too many of them yeah so I think we're just gonna leave it at that like the last thing that happened for example
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five minutes ago yeah literally as as we were walking into this room here it was like they added a second badge briefly
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for a few hours where you have a verified batch but then there's a second on underneath it that had another badge
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and said official so everyone who had a verified badge before had a verified badge and that would be the Twitter blue
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verified human badge and then there was an additional badge that would say you're an official person meaning you're
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a high profile someone who would normally have had the old verified badge like you're the only official one of
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that person and so some YouTubers some journalists some blogs started getting that official
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badge and uh probably about an hour and a half ago I tweeted a screenshot of it because
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I had two badges now in my profile and uh then an hour later it was gone then they just deleted them from the entire website and that's what happened that's literally what happened they just
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appeared and disappeared they tried something the product manager project manager for That official badge she
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tweeted out this long Thread about like why they're thinking about doing this and like what their opinion on it is and
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why they're specifically going with a second badge and that tweet was relevant for about an hour and a half yeah well
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she did tweet it 18 hours ago so it was like it started last night and then yeah now less than 24 hours later all of that
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means nothing I saw her tweet on the train this morning and then by the time I got to the office it was gone I think there's a good amount of West Coast
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people who are going to wake up who were double double verified overnight for some time and had no idea what it never
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saw it never even got to see it amazing but I have a screenshot of when I was doubling yeah yeah you can remember the
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one hour yeah you're double verified yeah it really happened anyway so that's that's Twitter we'll
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you know if something else happens maybe we'll we'll have like we'll ring like an alarm in the middle of the podcast like
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something new happened on Twitter let's talk about it I think Ellis is keeping an eye on it maybe yeah
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that's our Twitter alerts if something worthy of pausing happens just sound the alarm and we'll we'll see what's trending on Twitter at that moment anyway um let's talk about this xiaomi concept
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because it was kind of interesting what do you want to break it down because it was first like a leaked thing and then it was it was confirmed and now xiaomi's
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teasing it a little bit Yeah so ice Universe on Twitter or I guess Universe ice as he always usually does
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um sorry I just like how the twit the tweet in here that you screenshotted has the official oh yeah so I screenshotted
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it this morning before it was taken away incredible yeah uh so he leaked this screenshot of this basically xiaomi 12s Ultra which had a full Leica lens
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attached to the back of it and everyone started like freaking out and pretty soon after that xiaomi officially put
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out their concept phone which is the 12 me the xiaomi 12s Ultra concept uh effectively it's like exactly what you would think where they added a second 1.0 1.0 type sensor to the phone and
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then that sensor is not covered by any rear elements it's not covered by any glass it just has the sapphire glass
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over the top of it and then there's an adapter that slaps onto the back of the phone and then you
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can put a full Leica lens on top of that yeah um so you're basically just like condensing the light with way more glass
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with a full Leica lens to get a better image which adds a lot of different things because things like depth of
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field are a function of the amount of z-depth that you can have between the sensor and the lens yeah so I mean
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you're gonna get better image quality you're gonna get better like real depth of field instead of like bad portrait
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mode and all this stuff and I think they just mostly did this because they have that new partnership with Leica noun
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because Huawei and Leica are no longer best friends now xiaomi yeah it's like his best friend yeah I um so I I don't know I think that xiaomi likes to move fast and break things just
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like Twitter and uh they create a lot of random stuff um so this seems very interesting we
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have uh we've seen other stuff like this before yeah sort of like we saw the red hydrogen which is what we are the
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beautiful giant stinker that was allegedly someday gonna get that's the problem was like it was supposed to have a module I think that would have a sensor and then that sensor
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would be able to put a lens on it we never got is that many modulars I think that's what it was because the regular camera sucked on it because I remember I
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was really really excited because I used to use all Fuji cameras and Fuji lenses and that was part of the compatibility
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list it was that you could use like Fuji lenses I think they originally said a couple of modules that they were
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going to have but there was nothing to go directly lens onto the smartphone camera aspect of it right yeah and none
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of that ever actually got made you know and they they kept promising to me because I made my first review video and
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there was like one module I think that depends on the back of the phone and I was like yeah so
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there's no modules if you're gonna like sell the phone with the modules as a feature maybe you should have like a couple first party modules out and
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they're like oh yeah trust me this next one's gonna be amazing it's gonna be the camera thing that never happened but one the other one that I that I thought was
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cool is what Sony did a couple years ago which was an Xperia smartphone that had
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it was again it would attach essentially an entire digital camera to the back of the phone but it was in the form factor
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of like just adding a lens to the back you would attach it with a bracket when it touched the back of your phone it
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would pair to your phone via NFC and your phone is basically a Bluetooth viewfinder for this nice sensor with
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nice glass that was kind of cool yeah uh it didn't sell most people just use their smartphone cameras anyway but it was
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kind of cool this is like the Samsung Galaxy Zoom except you ripped off the zoom lens and made it separate yeah and
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then it's still like nice class I guess is nicer glass but this is like you're using yeah the last that people are
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actually using on like photo cameras cameras these are seven to eight eight thousand dollar lenses that's so crazy
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it's not like a 5.6 to f8 like yeah I think the most important thing about this is that it's a concept and there's a lot of baggage that comes with the word concept one is like when you go to
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CES and you see a bunch of concept cars you have no expectation of that car ever coming out right it's like a test thrown
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out into the winds by the manufacturer to just see what people think and maybe we'll make something like this someday but this is not a real product
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two I don't think this will ever be a real product because there's a bunch of things that are obviously very tough
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about it it's more expensive to do something like this the me the 12s Ultra already has an incredible camera and
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it's also a very expensive phone and so to make this adjustment to it and sell it and sell lenses it would just be a
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crazy expensive system at which point you might as well just buy a camera which most people will do and then
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there's the physics question which is a sensor this small with glass this big letting in this much light would
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actually create an effective depth of field of maybe like one to two inches it would be an incredible shallow depth of
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field super shot so you get a lot of light in but your your profile your your picture of a face would be like the tip
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of the nose would be in Focus you'd have to shoot at like F12 all the time yeah it'll be tough so there's a bunch of
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reasons why I think it's going to be a concept and it's like xiaomi going oh we thought of something and we're not gonna make it but we did kind of put all this
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work into engineering samples let's just like share the concept remember the one plus concept phone yeah that's CES
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that one year it basically it took um it had that special in that glass that can
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darken using electricity electric current and it basically created like an ND filter over the lens so that you
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could do long exposures and stuff yeah yeah they made a whole fuss about this but of course they never launched it
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that was actually this the first time I met you guys yeah because I left my tripod
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yeah I was on the other side of Vegas and I sprinted all the way back because it showed up like something a different
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hotel and yeah yeah that was fun but um this is kind of cool and it doesn't look
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like they have to do them much you know like four Concepts the xiaomi 12 already looks like this right it's like a circular camera bumper so it's not that much different of a form factor
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I would say though I agree with you I don't think we ever see this at best this is going to be like what was that
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one Sony Xperia that was like two thousand dollars and was supposed to be essentially like paired with an A7 and
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be like the extra view finally yeah this feels like at best could be one of those like insanely Niche like like you're someone who has like a camera already like you have these
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lenses so you don't have to pay a bunch for these but if you're bringing those lenses you're probably bringing your camera already right yeah if you have to
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pack like two or three of these lenses yeah that's enough volume in your bag for the camera body nice camera not that
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much more and Leica cameras are already fairly compact as it is so yeah I mean the kind of cool thing about this is a
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lot of mirrorless cameras are effectively just computers you know this is what I want like so the Hasselblad UI
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on the back of the cameras is pretty good like pretty smooth but I keep saying like the Samsung Galaxy camera
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was ahead of its time because what we all really want is our phone which we're really used to to take mirrorless
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incredible like photos that we see all the time with Shadow depth of field and everything like that so we keep trying
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to combine them and like what if we bring like a lens from this world and just mount it on the back of our camera and it's like we want the great cameras
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but we want the UI of our phones yeah it's like if we find a good way to merge the two we'll be set I think what we
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need need to do instead of building onto our phones is bring the phone UI to a nice camera oh absolutely basically make
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it run Android and have a nice yeah they all all the uis on all cameras most cameras suck yeah like has a black and
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red basically this sounds so much like Legacy car manufacturers there's three things you can count on
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the UI sucking which is cameras in in-car infotainment systems and printers it's those those three they'll never be good there's just there's some law of the universe that prevents them
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from being kill all printers yeah so I will say um that I think that using physics to
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take photos is pretty much always the way and that we in a lot of ways we have over computational photographied our way into too far even yes absolutely yeah
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yeah yeah Hipster I don't know if you look at if you look at modern pixel photos they're like over
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sharpened and over contrasty and that's just because like the hardware in other devices is getting better and the
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sensors are getting bigger to the point where you don't need to lean into that processing as much like it saved bad
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processors or bad sensors yeah but it doesn't need that as much anymore obviously like you guys said If You're
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Gonna already carry around these lenses which are huge it doesn't really make a lot of sense but I'll play if I play
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Devil's Advocate I think and we're this might be a spoiler alert we're gonna do another blind smartphone camera test
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this year and I have a feeling the ones that do a lot of computational Photography are going to do well yeah and that's like kind of what people it's
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like appealing to what people want to see in their eyes so it's like in order to get closer to the ones that have the
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physics Advantage you have to do computational photography but it is yeah it is debatable like are they going too
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far is it just bad computational photography I don't think it's bad I think it's just that what use we used to
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think was good now feels bad compared to everything else I think it's just like comparatively but that's this is also coming from someone who like I I want to be able to do a lot with my pictures and
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yeah you know so anyway cool concept cool concept cool concept we'll see if uh xiaomi follows up on it at any point
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in the future I really want to hold one yeah this entire thing in one hand the phone there's a photo of it in the dock
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yeah it is the center of gravity on that thing is probably just the lens yeah you probably
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just hold the lens and you just tap the screen yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah well we'll take a quick break we'll come back
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and we'll talk about some other stuff but before we do that is trivia time and producer cam trivia
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producer cam oh we should fire up the previous account for the first time ever let's hit it amazing should you clap
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[Music] welcome wait we're muted that's the best possible our producer he's making their job as hard as possible they're doing that to themselves
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uh trivia time trivia time also but yeah Ellison and welcome welcome to being on
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camera on the podcast hi folks it's a good time yeah we are now on camera for trivia and trivia only and we both wore
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green sweaters completely on accident that was not an accident no shot you knew it was producer we know what was happening okay trivia time just green screen yourselves so you're just
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floating heads oh God no okay in 1999 a company called zip2 was acquired by Compaq for 307 million dollars which modern day Tech Juggernaut was one of
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the founders all right okay I know what it is yeah yeah me too cool got it really yeah okay
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yeah okay so you have to break [Music] all right welcome back um I have a little news about Apple's noise canceling and we've been seeing it for
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the last couple weeks uh a few different things have happened but people have been claiming and this is a
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claim we've seen before that they're noise canceling on their airpods Pro and the airpods Max has gotten worse okay
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this is this is one of those things I've seen headlines and a couple of Rogue tweets about but I haven't actually
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investigated it okay I do regularly fly with airpods Max so I'm I'm interested okay I'm going to try in there's a lot of different um like theories and stuff out there I'm going to try and save the
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facts first and then we can go over the theories and then we can go over what our theories are in fact tell us why
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everyone's wrong okay sounds good Alex was very heated about this this morning so he'll come in okay um so pretty much
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people started claiming I said this already noise cancellation getting worse than air buds they think they notice Max
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in particular Max but I think some people are also saying Pros as well I think it's both of them yeah but I think
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Macs are the ones that kind of sparked this very specific because what happened then is the update came out in May a
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website called I believe it's pronounced ratings it's rt-i-n-g-s um and they did a test finally to kind of try and prove this and it did seem like there was a slight
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change in the cancellation between it says there's a slight change in the canceling of noise between the mid bass
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to high bass range a slight change in canceling your noise between mid-base and high bass so so okay so there is so
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there's some sort of a difference some update but there's a firmware update in May okay where this happens yeah and that's when people started
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guessing it and now it has led to um I think it was previously this week there was a huge threat on our Apple
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describing what's happening with a really kind of crazy Theory as to why it's happening which we can get to in a minute um but like this isn't the first time this has happened this has happened on
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different boats people with bows have said this before I think Sony like a year or two ago a lot of people said
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theirs got worse the um XM like threes I think got an update and started to get worse
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I'm just going to go over a couple of the theories that people think why this might be happening okay and then I kind
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of want to talk about it because it's also one of those things where when you're dealing with these small
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different noise cancellations it's things you hear there's all kinds of different things that can affect that
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there's Placebo if I tell you you can tell someone your phone's feeling slower yeah and then somebody might be like oh
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mine feels slower too yeah who who knows if something actually so we did get a test to prove there is a small change
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but a lot of people are thinking it's potentially because of and I think everyone who's used over-ear noise
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canceling headphones and maybe even in-ears that pressure feeling you get of like a really nice of like almost
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feeling like you're getting trapped inside of pressure because of the noise cancellation it feels like you're getting covered up over your ears so
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some people are thinking that potentially Apple made a slight change to try and reduce that feeling maybe
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they were getting complaints about you can see the noise pressure um we always have to talk about planned
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obsolescence um this I I'm just talking about it I'm not saying any I'm I'm just attacking
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questions yeah okay um classic you know but like there's there's always talked about
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planned up some people always feel like apple is trying to slowly work back to their next pair of
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headphones launching and they have a big percentage difference in noise cancellation iPhone batteries iPhone squs getting ramped down like you could
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do that's just one of those and then there's also a a big Reddit thread that seems to think and I I'm gonna start
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this off straight straight up by saying it feels pretty debunked that's 98 new tweets at me so okay so um there's there's a really big Reddit thread like I mentioned before on our
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Apple um talking about a lawsuit between Apple and it's kind of between a patent issued
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in 2002 for a company called Jawbone but now that company is owned by a patent troll
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um I don't think called Jawbone Innovations I think yeah I think Jawbone straight up went out of business and then another company bought them renamed themselves Jabo yeah and was like we own
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the patent portfolio yeah yeah so the reason I don't think this is that despite this I I don't know have you
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guys seen this link to you it's been on our subreddit it's been all over our Apple it's been all over like kind of
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everywhere I'm gonna guess this I like skimmed it and it struck me as such a like deep cut conspiracy that I
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dismissed it yeah also if it's if it's so if it's a lawsuit it's like public information right it is and the biggest
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issue with this is is this lawsuit seems to be mostly about microphone arrays and more things into terms of smart speakers
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rather than specifically noise cancellation and like airpods Max okay um so despite the huge thread being
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there there's a pretty decent comment that I also can't prove is completely right seeming to debunk it it's all very
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confusing um but I like what do we think is the problem here like what so we have no we have no official response from Apple no and okay so I
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think I can start this off by saying I think the biggest issue here is that there is nothing from Apple like this has become widespread enough to where
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there's headlines the fact that Apple's not saying what these updates are doing seems to be the biggest issue here
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because either people are getting something less than what they paid for or apple is now just like because of a
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small update they made that may be beneficial to the user people are going on all sorts of different tirades of
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what could be happening and the whole Tech landscape is kind of freaking out about this because Apple just won't
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communicate properly yeah that's so I guess Apple's one of those companies where they like to communicate that
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stuff as little as possible in the off chance that this podcast is out of date by the time it comes out I'm going to predict what Apple statement is okay
00:21:06
um airpods Max have great noise cancellation that cancels out lots of awful frequencies with amazing technology and an array of microphones on the outside we regularly push updates
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to airpods Max to improve the customer experience yeah that's avoid the question complete non-answer is probably
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what I'm expecting no listen I haven't heard any difference and I also don't know if I have the new or old firmware on my airpods Mac so I couldn't tell you
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if I've noticed anything worse I'm probably going to get on a flight tomorrow and go oh you know what I do
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hear a little bit more noise it was apparently from last May last probably 2021 in September yeah this last May so if you've updated your airpods since May I also don't know if I have do they update
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in the background I have no idea because my Sony headphones there's like a process to update the firmware so you
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can see in the app what your firmware is and the update will pop up and go do you want to update are you sure it's going to like be disconnected for a while and
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then you have to do it right airpods Max I don't know what the process is for updating the firmware so I couldn't tell you if I'm on the new firmware I might
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just be on my original firmware I believe they update in the background while they are simultaneously connected
00:22:12
to your phone via Bluetooth and in the case I think that those two conditions need to be met okay so there's a pretty
00:22:19
good I don't use the case then they'll die in the case yeah I thought there's no way they don't turn
00:22:24
off if you don't put them in the case right remember how that never really turn off right they just go into ultra low energy mode or whatever if you leave
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them out the case they will be like ready to pair for a while before they go into ultra low energy mode and if you
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put them put them in the case then they just immediately go to low energy mode this feels dumb the case is so beautiful
00:22:41
yeah these I don't own these these sound like the most frustrating headphones they're annoying because they don't fold
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down very much and you you basically have to use the case that it comes with yeah and so I I bring them around in my
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backpack and they are the entire top half of my backpack wow and they're they're very annoying to travel with but they sound really good they pair
00:23:00
instantly to my phone and they have great noise cancellation so I'm like fine this is my good noise cancellation
00:23:05
I also yeah I would love to hear the difference so I for additional context like I remember during the summer Quinn
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was tweeting out like I'm pretty sure that the noise cancellation on these have gotten significantly worse and then
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I just started seeing a lot of random tweets about it and then the Verge put out another an article called I'm pretty
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sure yeah I think I'm convinced the airpods max after noise cancellation has gotten worse and they were just like here's all of my stuff here's some other
00:23:32
tweets to back me up I'm definitely like it feels like it and then the artings thing came out fairly recently that was
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like a week or two ago those ears where we can like measure noise cancellation so I believe we don't have the old we'd
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have to have their old firmware ah I think though Ellis did you create some sort of I yeah I have a lot to say
00:23:53
okay about all this please um School us one I think I think it's a really good point
00:23:59
I think it's a really good point that um this lawsuit probably doesn't have a lot
00:24:04
to do with it because the thing that everyone's kind of conveniently leaving out of this is that Jawbone is suing
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like every tech company right now like they're suing Google and you can be like oh Google makes noise canceling earbuds
00:24:16
too but they're also suing Amazon who doesn't as far as I know um but Amazon does make products that have been forming microphones in them you know so it's my it's a microphone
00:24:27
related lawsuit it really seems like it's a microphone related lawsuit um yeah you know the the big thing is like
00:24:33
when I was looking at the ratings artings test and I just wanna I guess I'll like throw this out in front before like people start tweeting angrily at us tomorrow um I was paid by Apple to say
00:24:46
all of this Tim Cook is actually wiring money to Western Union right after this I'm gonna run to the bank
00:24:53
so yeah just before anyone calls me out on Twitter you're right um no Jake um yeah completely yeah total joke uh but um uh looking at the ratings test um they only have the post firmware
00:25:06
results on their website at least that I could find uh maybe it's hidden through
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a tab that I didn't click through this morning but I couldn't find it um and I found screenshots of older
00:25:17
tests but those older tests don't have a date on them and in between beginning to
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test them in this new firmware they updated their test bench and they updated their test bench specifically to
00:25:29
have more accuracy in the lower frequencies and if you look at this screenshot there's also about a 10
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decibel difference in the lower frequencies um with noise canceling off like on their pink noise so I don't really know how to trust those screenshots but the
00:25:45
the biggest thing for me about this whole controversy I guess the two biggest things one every company that
00:25:51
makes noise canceling products has this game handle it's happened to Sony it's happened to Bose like everyone loves to be like they're making them worse and and the big thing is that hearing is
00:26:03
like by far our most I mean maybe other than smell but hearing is like our most subjective sense like like we don't have
00:26:11
reliable ears and like something I always think about is how like our eyes can see uh like 300 terahertz of
00:26:19
bandwidth as far as energy goes our ears only go 20 to 20K it's like it's like our eyes are so much more sensitive it can process this like huge amount of information that our ears can't and sort
00:26:30
of like demonstrate this you know this is completely unscientific before all of the Bros come out and are like no no no
00:26:37
this is this yes this is a very unscientific AFL Twitter but I recorded David this morning
00:26:42
just like a few seconds of David that was used for and I took some some field recordings of just like being on the
00:26:49
street in downtown Atlanta like right in the center of the city and I took what ratings claimed that uh their noise that
00:26:58
that airpods max noise cancellation EQ curve looks like and I applied it to the Apple uh to the Atlanta sound and then I
00:27:06
also took what they claimed the old one was or whatever that screenshot I could found I could find so if you guys can
00:27:11
tell me which one of these has better noise canceling oh this is worse noise canceling those are trivia boards here we go um so this is number one you're listening to the waveform podcast
00:27:26
and this is number two you're listening to the waveform podcast this is number one again you're listening to the waveform podcast and
00:27:37
you're listening you're listening to the waveform podcast okay I think one has slightly better
00:27:45
noise cancellation that's what I was gonna say are we on agreement I was gonna say that as well now that you ask
00:27:51
yourself I'm not sure anymore but yeah that's what I think but that's what I'm saying is like all these people are coming from the mortars and being like
00:27:57
Oh it's gotten so much worse and it's like even rating says it's like it's an amount that most people it's like imperceptible to yeah I think and so I yeah the other thing is that the the
00:28:09
wait what did I write [Music] yeah yeah and again this is totally unscientific but like that had like six
00:28:22
decibels of difference in some frequencies you know I mean like these weren't small Cuts I was making and it's
00:28:28
still like almost imperceptible um I know nothing about audio well and the other thing is that these headphones have microphones on the inside of the
00:28:39
cups right and so what they're doing there is they're actually listening to what's going on in between your ear and
00:28:44
the driver and that information is playing a big part into oh I need to be taking out more of this oh I'm taking
00:28:50
out too much of this right yeah um and if those microphones get gunked up by your dirty skin and your oily hair
00:28:58
and whatever usage over time they're gonna work less and I couldn't find a single comment of someone being like yeah I took some blue Tack and cleaned
00:29:05
out the microphones yeah yeah this is like a there I always think like when I when I listen to when I read audio file
00:29:11
based reviews of like headphones and audio products and there's all this description of like all everything that
00:29:18
happens in each little frequency and the sibilance and the Sound Stage and every and the the bass and the sub bass and
00:29:23
all that stuff I always just think like oh I guess it sounds pretty good like if you just boil it down to like how much
00:29:30
are you paying and does it sound good usually you can boil it down to it's expensive and it sounds good and above a
00:29:36
certain number it's just personal preference like like to use another car analogy if you take like five of the
00:29:42
best sports cars in the world all of them are over 200 Grand and you take one of them and you make it a quarter of a
00:29:49
second slower in the eighth quarter mile something like that most people would never feel the difference they would still feel ballistically fast but at some level there is a person who can
00:30:01
kind of perceive a little bit of that difference and it's like if you are that person then yes you should be shopping
00:30:06
in that Echelon and picking between the craziest of the crazy and you deserve to be outraged over the sixth decibel
00:30:12
difference in the airpods max that costs 550 but for most people who are just getting on a plane and don't want to
00:30:18
hear the baby next to them these still work just fine and I think I'm gonna be okay with that I'd be mad if they like
00:30:23
are bad at noise canceling now feels like some dramatic difference yeah where now they don't work anymore but uh I'm
00:30:29
not too worried at the at the expense of probably also sounding like Tim Cook's in my pocket I'm not too I'm not too
00:30:35
worried we need you to report back after that flight you have yeah tomorrow yeah yeah I think it's especially true you
00:30:41
know we were talking about this when the new airpods Pro came out and it never really made it in like a full video but
00:30:48
like Apple headphones are now untestable right there's so much computation happening at any given moment you know there's a different EQ curve for all 12
00:30:59
steps of the volume on an iPhone like it's literally changing to adjust oh yeah for how your ears perceive
00:31:06
different frequencies and different loudnesses so I you know just if you like them
00:31:12
that's great and if you don't there's a whole company out there it's called Bose they also make great products I'm sure
00:31:18
you'll love them yeah Sony's out there yeah yeah 72 they make headphones we're using Google pixel buds
00:31:25
Pro yeah Sennheiser makes headphones well I was gonna say we we just got a pair of focals in the office the bakkies
00:31:32
that have uh noise canceling that I think are just fantastic yeah I think when I get on a plane the most common
00:31:38
headphones that I see now for because I I'm a nerd I noticed with headphones people wearing
00:31:44
um there's a lot of Sony's uh over ear and there is a pretty good amount of airpods Max and then there's a lot of airpods it's crazy because it used to be the qc35s every single person not very
00:31:58
long ago not very long ago yeah I do use these bows we talked about this a couple of weeks ago for flights yeah the hilarious thing about this uh these are the Bose
00:32:10
earbuds too or I think they're quite different quiet Comfort here yeah yeah the funny thing about these is they cut they are the best noise cancellation headphones I've ever used they cut out
00:32:21
every frequency on a plane except for a frequency that I couldn't hear when I didn't have them in from the air
00:32:28
conditioning there's one air conditioning frequency that I can't hear when I don't have a minute but it's just it doesn't cut those out so it's like
00:32:36
whole time I'm on the plane and I'm just like oh man yeah yeah but otherwise they're great so cool so I think the uh
00:32:43
the end to this is clean your headphones out please yeah clean that show and I was mics I would love to see a response
00:32:50
from Apple even if yeah you know I would like some communication if they communicate what they did we don't have
00:32:56
20 different ready to know what they're gonna say yeah yeah whatever people love our airpods yeah people love the noise
00:33:03
don't communicate we would like to still speculate on the podcast it is worth speculating to you know after I just
00:33:10
went on that whole rant because that thing did happen a week and a half ago maybe two weeks ago where when the
00:33:15
airpods 2 came out Apple made this huge deal they were like yeah our new silicon yeah they can process stuff at an
00:33:21
incredible speed that's why the new transparency mode is so lit and then three weeks ago
00:33:26
yeah they're like the H1 chip now supports it yeah and we were like well what was all this happens all the time
00:33:31
in the tech industry though they use like new stuff to say this is the only way way that this can do this
00:33:37
like yeah like tensor or tense you know and then it doesn't end up being the only way to do it we're working on a M2
00:33:44
iPad Pro review where it's the same as the M1 iPad Pro yeah but but the M21 supports hover with the apple pencil and if yeah if you ask Apple like oh why does the M2 on support hover with the
00:33:57
apple pencil if they're like M2 is good and you're like well M1 was pretty good too I'm pretty sure you could do it with
00:34:03
that and then but they'll never say you could six to eight months later and then six months later you can yeah I'm waiting we'll see well all right we'll
00:34:11
see what Apple's statement is inevitably probably like quote mine and then one apple we just put them next week I want to
00:34:17
write copy for this and then we can see how exactly it's a whole job it's someone's whole job right now they're
00:34:23
listening to the podcast like yes yes that's good uh well we'll take another quick break
00:34:29
though uh we'll talk about smart home stuff in a second but that of course means we have some more trivia yeah dude
00:34:35
[Laughter] [Music] the word metaverse was originally coined in a science fiction novel called snow crash what year was that novel published and
00:34:48
we're looking for the closest year I don't I don't know I think it is I definitely don't know yeah
00:34:55
there's no chance I mean I'm gonna guess a year but it's gonna be rough I'm probably gonna be I've read this
00:35:00
Wikipedia page like 800 times and I'm probably still wrong but you might know too much you might know too little which
00:35:06
puts Andrew in The Sweet Spot that's good total Randomness incredible probably closer we'll give the point to
00:35:13
whoever's years is closest yes yeah okay yeah perfect all right we'll be right back foreign
00:35:30
welcome back um I have a question to ask you guys and maybe this is a little embarrassing because I've nodded my head
00:35:36
as you've talked about this topic in the past and I had no idea what we were talking about so confessional matter has been
00:35:43
brought up quite a few times I know there is something about matter that happened pretty recently um I don't know what it is like pretty
00:35:51
much at all okay so do you know have any idea no that's fair it is it's kind of been a background development for me and I I feel like I basically just know what
00:36:02
it's supposed to be which is okay we have a bunch of different smart home ecosystems they run on their own standards or protocols or they talk to each other
00:36:15
and in the future there should be a universal protocol where they all talk to each other they just they all need to have this radio or whatever where they all talk to each
00:36:26
other and then the the ecosystem walls are broken down and everything is happy and harmonious all right I know David
00:36:34
knows like all about it so how wrong am I please every time Marquez is like I heard about this like kind of a little
00:36:40
bit warm am I kind of right I I don't know if I know about it here's the perfect explanation
00:36:46
I wanted to queue this up as kind of like yes yes no where like we'll put Marquez is definitely on the baby maybe
00:36:53
yes I'm at no and I want David to explain it to us there's us to try and explain it back our reply so yeah yeah
00:36:59
Professor David yes please explain in no longer okay what is matter and does it matter it absolutely matters okay perfect if it works okay so everyone's hoping it works uh okay so currently in
00:37:14
the smart home ecosystem right way back when Amazon Alexa was first invented and
00:37:20
the echo came out and it was like one of the first Smart Home Products that was available right Amazon uh had to create
00:37:27
something that would allow the echo devices to talk to Smart Home stuff right this is not dissimilar to the fact
00:37:34
that Tesla made its own charger because there was not a charging standard at the time and now we have this kind of mess
00:37:40
where Tesla has its own charger and then there's chatty Mo and all this stuff lightning USBC so yeah so as the smart
00:37:46
home ecosystem built out and players like apple with homekit and Google with Google Assistant came onto the market they kind of just like made their own stuff and so now when you go to the
00:37:59
store whether you go to Best Buy or like some store and you buy Smart Home Stuff there's all these labels on the boxes
00:38:06
that say like works with Alexa works with Google Assistant works with apple homekit and this is a big problem for a
00:38:14
lot of reasons because you can't just go out and like buy some smart lights now you have to be like okay well what's my
00:38:19
beacon device that I'm using as my main voice assistant to percolate this stuff throughout my house right and so much like you said matter is a protocol that is supposed to
00:38:32
unify all of these things into one thing because they all currently use different protocols to interact you might know the
00:38:40
Hue has like these Bridges those bridges are a way for it to work with many different protocols because it's like it's like a Rosetta Stone it's like a translator or a Babelfish like one of
00:38:53
those protocols gets sent it hits the um the bridge and then that converts it into the other protocol that needs to be used for the light or whatever okay right so matter is like amazing because
00:39:07
300 companies 300 plus companies that make smart home equipment including Google Apple Amazon and then like all of the main smart home accessory players
00:39:17
like tp-link and like all these guys came together and they say okay cool we're all going to use matter
00:39:24
because they realized that while there are many benefits to having walled Gardens there is also limits to having
00:39:31
walled Gardens you know yep if you are trying to make an apple home kit house but you can only build out you can only
00:39:39
use so many accessories for the Apple home kit house but you want to buy this one accessory that only works with
00:39:45
Google Assistant maybe you think about moving over to Google assistant so Apple actually does have some incentive to
00:39:52
actually go out and support this ubiquitous ecosystem okay right now the really cool thing that this is
00:39:59
not dissimilar to how the internet was formed in the first place right it's basically matter used to be used to be
00:40:07
called chip which is connected home over IP and if you know anything about internet
00:40:12
protocols that's really awesome because it basically means that all of this stuff is coming through Just One Singular protocol that is coming through
00:40:23
your home so one fundamental part of matter is called thread I'm just about to ask
00:40:30
because I keep hearing I literally just I just Googled what is thread because I remember that it's a thing that's
00:40:35
connected to matter okay yeah so matter is actually just an application layer that's sitting over Wi-Fi plus thread
00:40:41
and thread is this really awesome thing that basically allows each individual smart home device device to be its own little Beacon so they're all communicating with each other because
00:40:53
the current way that things work are you go to your Google Nest Hub and you say hey turn on the light in my bedroom and
00:41:01
that Nest Hub has to connect to the internet send that data to a Google server somewhere send it back to your
00:41:07
home Wi-Fi pinging off your Wi-Fi hit the light and then turn on the light but thread is basically you're making your own little intranet mesh Network and the reason it's called thread if you could
00:41:18
think about this is that you have all these little devices and they're all communicate with communicating with each
00:41:24
each other yeah so like this light is going to this smart audio speaker which is going to this and there's kind of like data being sent through all of these devices at the same time to each
00:41:34
other so it's more secure because you have your own little intranet it's way faster yeah
00:41:40
way faster which is great for like smart lights right yeah because now you don't say turn on my light and then it's like
00:41:46
ding yeah you know it's just kind of instant as soon as it recognizes the command it sends it yeah and the amazing
00:41:52
thing about something like matter is say you are using uh Amazon Alexa and you have a you have an echo in your home but
00:41:58
you really want to use like a Google Nest audio for your music now you can tell Alexa to play music on your Google
00:42:05
Nest audio hmm okay that's so I'm building this analogy in my head kinda and it's how I'm going to try to understand it all yeah which is like virtual ports
00:42:17
so you know we have lightning and USBC and mini USB whatever so I'm imagining like you know Alexis or Amazon's ecosystem
00:42:24
they all used one imaginary port to talk to each other yeah and then made for iPhone or homekit was a different port so now if you wanted to use things from two different ecosystems they'd have
00:42:35
different ports on them and so something like the Philips Hue Bridge would be like a box with all of the ports on it
00:42:40
where it's like an adapter an adapter plug into two different things which is kind of cool and then it does make sense
00:42:46
now if this new big Universal Port is coming along to support it do they also I guess continue to support their own individual standards along the side I
00:42:57
guess it's fine but everything supports matter yeah that's whatever I believe they can um so a lot of devices are going to be
00:43:03
launching from this month going forward that will have the little matter logo on it which just makes means you can just
00:43:09
set it up super fast and it's really awesome and easy um but a lot of companies have committed
00:43:14
to updating their devices to also support matter in the future oh it's good you should still check on the
00:43:21
companies that are doing that though and also look at their like reliability and how often How likely they are to
00:43:27
actually do that okay um yeah and like devices will be able to work with matter but automations and
00:43:33
things like that still rely on the individual ecosystem so if you have like a routine or something that's still
00:43:40
going to rely on like the Google Hub or the Apple home kit situation got it yeah okay but yeah it's it's
00:43:47
great because it's way faster it's more secure and then everything's like a mesh Network too which is cool so if you have
00:43:52
your Google Nest Hub in one room and then you've got a random Philips Hue bulb in the next room and then the next
00:43:58
room past that you've got some wise bulb even if that wise bulb was not like able
00:44:05
to connect directly to your Google Nest Hub because there's devices in between they literally work as mesh networks
00:44:11
yeah yeah I'm looking forward to that my current smart home situation it's fine and it works okay because I have a bunch
00:44:18
of accessories that I'll have Google's virtual Port if you will um but they are still annoying because
00:44:24
Nest does make their own like mesh network based on their own protocol and so like I was trying to connect my my uh lock on the back door the other day and
00:44:37
it kept trying to use the doorbell on my front door as the as the mesh Network thing so it wanted to be connected to
00:44:43
both at once and I was running back and forth from the back door to the front door to try to be close enough to get my
00:44:49
phone to pair to both of them so that they would talk to each other yeah and it was a nightmare so ironically The
00:44:54
Nest the old nest before Ness got bought by Google yeah they were the ones that actually got this in motion yeah because
00:45:01
they wanted this to happen I think um there used to be the zigbee alliance and zigbee was supposed to be the like
00:45:06
connecting thread thing sounds like a muppet oh yeah I know yeah sounds cooler there's like the alliance it's amazing okay yeah but now it's like the the connected um something Alliance yeah so okay yeah
00:45:19
so they're just trying to get and so anyway the news so this has been in the works for like quite a while and it was
00:45:26
originally supposed to launch I think in 2020 and then it got delayed and then it was going to launch last year and then it got delayed and then it was gonna
00:45:31
launch in June of this year and then I got delayed again but the SDK actually dropped like this week
00:45:37
um which is amazing which means there could be a lot of different companies that have been ready to just like ship
00:45:45
products that are that are matter compatible and they have the boxes printed and everything's ready for the holiday season they just been waiting
00:45:51
for matter to actually drop the official SDK so that they can use it but expect to see some products on the holiday shelves coming out for this year that have the logo and then you should look
00:46:04
up like a list of products that are either updating or have committed to updating by the way that logo just
00:46:09
because I looked it up because I didn't know what it is it looks like three curved arrows pointing inwards yeah
00:46:15
which I think that's the best way of it makes sense makes it just just in case you don't have you know you're in the
00:46:21
car you can't see what this looks like and you're going to Best Buy and you see this now I think that's sort of the idea it's like it's like Amazon Alexa Google
00:46:28
Assistant Apple home kit and they're all just like pointing towards each other yeah that's funny that was the premise of my home Tech video when I made it and
00:46:35
I got a couple comments that were very highly rated which was oh there's this one service that lets you connect all
00:46:40
three of them and it's like it's kind of a hack but it kind of works and you can you can actually use things from homekit
00:46:47
and Google Assistant all on the same thing yeah and it now sounds like this is actually going to be a tenable solution for like most people to to get
00:46:55
just whatever they want the fact that you can just go to the store and just buy smart home equipment and just use it
00:47:00
yeah the setup process is also supposed to be way easier matter is trying to get everybody to have like just a QR code on
00:47:06
their box and it sets up through matter too um but you choose you you still choose
00:47:11
like the voice assistant that you want to use and you have to use that voice assistant for everything but you know
00:47:16
the fact that you can play music on your nest audio from your Alexa speaker like yeah that's pretty pretty lit you know
00:47:23
it's pretty cool too it's completely open source yeah which is like all these giant private companies that have their own situation going on how do they get into three on this that's right the
00:47:35
research that I did like from what I understand it's it's literally that they saw like limits to their walled Gardens
00:47:44
and get enough like apple was like yeah there's a there's a good amount of home kit stuff but look at that Alexa's stuff
00:47:50
over there so many good things that we don't have and people aren't making for home kit what if we could get that
00:47:55
supported so people would use Siri more often yeah exactly they want to use their their service way more often so
00:48:02
they're willing to let all of these third parties just like work with everybody yeah I mean do you remember Quinn's Smart Home Video maybe like a
00:48:09
year ago like there are so many hacks and stuff in there because homekit seems to be a couple steps behind in terms of
00:48:14
like products that work well with it so okay like this is awesome for people who
00:48:20
use homekit yeah Amazon to me it would always be like Amazon has the biggest selection but the most variance in
00:48:26
quality yeah uh home kit has the smallest selection but the highest overall quality of things and then
00:48:32
Google is somewhere in the middle with like some Nest stuff and stuff kind of usually works with Google Assistant I think we're gonna probably do another
00:48:38
assistant comparison video I still like Google Assistant the best so I just want to use the Google Assistant stuff locks
00:48:44
me out of the good home kit stuff are we all Google Assistant people yeah yeah that's what I'm using at home yeah same
00:48:50
Google Assistant I mean traditionally at least has been like the best in terms of like asking a question locally and yeah
00:48:57
yeah and I would just rather use Google for those kind of things because if you're just asking questions from the
00:49:03
internet Google is obviously the one yeah very fair yeah so yeah wow yeah that's pretty awesome I've just been
00:49:08
like waiting for this forever and it's been the news has been trickling trickling out and I've like Andrew said I've randomly dropped like oh but matter
00:49:15
we'll fix this like on the podcast I definitely it was like two podcasts ago we were just like something matter I was like yeah because it sounds great yeah
00:49:23
well now that we know it does sound really good no no I'm pumped I'm most pumped for the fact that it's just like within itself yeah things might happen
00:49:30
faster I'm so tired of being like hey G word um like turn on the lights and then I
00:49:36
walk like all the way into this still dark room and then the lights pop on yeah I also have I have two Phillips Hue
00:49:42
Lights and I don't have a Philips Hue Bridge so every time I walk into that room I have to open the Philips Hue app
00:49:47
to turn those lights on and I'm so tired okay yeah the Philips Hue Bridges will be updated but future Philips Hue
00:49:54
bulbous will not even need that okay because of thread because everything's a mesh Network right oh but in theory they
00:50:01
can update my Philips Hue lamps yes to support Brit or mad matter yeah I hope they do as many things as possible
00:50:07
update them yeah how often do you change sorry this is kind of sidetracked but how often do you change the colors of your Philips Hue bulbs almost never get a Smart Switch it's so much better than
00:50:17
a spotlight bulb I've heard that smart switch so like rather than in my house I got rid of all my smart light bulbs and
00:50:23
I have a smart switch so I can still physically turn the switch off all the time without affecting if I can use my
00:50:29
voice command I should do that so much better there are lamps oh they're limp but that's fine though if the switch off the lamps okay yeah
00:50:36
because right it's just a room with like one light in the middle oh so I use the lamps to like light up the room yeah and if I just have a switch on the wall that
00:50:43
just turns the lamps on I don't care about the colors just turn them on yeah I think that too is that you could use one switch to turn on a whole group of
00:50:49
lamps right yeah me too yeah yeah I love it that'd be cool so I'm gonna get a bunch of smart plugs but I'm currently
00:50:56
waiting to see what over the next like week or two there should be official smart plugs like dropping with matter
00:51:03
okay so and I want to buy matter supported everything I'm just gonna keep using candles to light my apartment
00:51:08
smart candles no I can't even are they even RGB candles like RGB candies what is this someone replied I tweeted that I just want way more lamps in my life and then yesterday I bought seven different lamps and someone said what you brought
00:51:22
seven lamps bro right any of them from Ikea oh my God no Ikea has great lamps okay they were so weird and so cool I
00:51:28
got this one that's like a it's like a gyroscope Globe you know the like weird like rotating around itself kind of
00:51:33
thing does it move where's the light no it's just in the center of the oh it moves around it it doesn't actually move
00:51:39
it just looks it just looks like it should move it was thirty dollars that's fair but uh I'm gonna buy a bunch of smart plugs I'm just waiting for matter supported smart plugs smart plug
00:51:51
or smart bulb I bought a bunch of dumb bulbs that are the exact color temperature that I want
00:51:58
because I'm not someone that would change the smart color yeah makes sense yeah so tight yeah yeah I'm excited for
00:52:05
a whole new category of tech yes and thank you for explaining it to us thank you now I know yeah and now look at me
00:52:10
now we'll we'll have our minds blown and trivia Answers by things we didn't know
00:52:16
because I definitely don't know some of these I think number one I'm gonna get wrong all right well trivia time do you
00:52:22
have a whiteboard yeah yeah both over here so the score Marquez has 13. oh yeah Andrew has 11. David has eight I wasn't on the last two episodes
00:52:37
to be honest if I could trade some points and to go to Yosemite is it worth three points since we have
00:52:44
no perceived prize yet okay question number one in 1999 a company called zip2 was acquired by Compaq for 307 million dollars which
00:52:56
modern day Tech Juggernaut was one of the founders who wants to go first just flip it over and read it out loud as you flip for our audio users audio
00:53:08
listeners still thinking I'm still thinking I'll let you think that's okay take your time
00:53:21
give me the ratio okay okay all right I've gotten 344 Twitter replies since the last Saturday no Twitter Updates this episode that's crazy that's an amazing yeah we'll
00:53:34
double check but I was checking and yeah he was just tweeting about rockets and stuff which is fine that's probably what
00:53:39
it should be focusing on if we're on if we want him to tweet about something it's the Rockets yeah and the cars yeah
00:53:46
cyber truck updates it has cyber truck doing no tweets no tweets on it you got one yeah all right ready yeah David you want to say first I suck Elon
00:54:00
I also wrote Elon I also wrote Elon Andrew wrote Bill Gates yeah wait he said it was a
00:54:11
competitor to compact I was told to come no it was yeah it was acquired by compact for 307 million dollars he got
00:54:17
seven percent of that I think something like that which was 22 million yeah elon's been part of so many like micro
00:54:23
major Tech things like the PayPal Mafia and all that stuff I just said yeah Elon
00:54:29
would be good because of all the Twitter Madness yeah yeah I remember reading that yeah I don't I wonder what they did they
00:54:37
provided city guide based softwares to newspapers and other Publications Oh I thought this was a compression thing recruiter
00:54:50
that's a free ad man wow no time passed since we answered that last question Perfect all right question number two I don't know the word I don't know I'm
00:55:03
just gonna write a year now whatever what year did this movie come out no it's a book it's a book yeah okay I already wrote it the word
00:55:15
metaverse was originally coined in a science fiction novel called snow crash what year was the novel published and
00:55:22
we're looking for the closest year so only one of you is getting unless you two of you get the exact year what does
00:55:27
three of us get the exact here do we win 8 000 times and I don't remember but I'm guessing ready nice oh we're kind of close so I wrote
00:55:43
1969. yeah 1982. I wrote 1972. oh really oh who's so close who do you think is the closest me yeah is you I was gonna do the smartest
00:55:57
man alive baby man it's been a while since you guys have gotten one right was it 96 it was 92. oh wow if I had guessed my second no way really felt
00:56:12
very easy no crash came out in 92. I did think it was gonna be the 80s kicked off the whole cyberpunk aesthetic
00:56:19
I don't know that I only know that metaverse oh maybe that was The Necromancer also don't know that
00:56:25
I read books I don't I didn't know that was the most convincing I got it right yeah it was
00:56:32
really 1992. I could have come up with this concept in like 1930. this guy this guy is not
00:56:41
that smart oh yeah then why didn't you uh sounds easy what were you doing in 1930 who's to say my grandma didn't okay that was it okay I was ready for the third one I was like I don't remember the third question I always want a third
00:56:52
one maybe not till our extra special uh trivia Bonanza season finale I haven't decided if it's a trivia Bonanza or a trivia Extravaganza I like extravagance what about extravagant extrava Bonanza
00:57:04
it's extra it is extra but Bonanza is so fun it's like bananas there's Extravaganza is an extra Bonanza well
00:57:11
baganza where did the G come from I don't know what's the etymology of Extravaganza I
00:57:18
would like to know that's a good place to end this podcast extravagant thanks for listening this
00:57:24
week we appreciate you all uh thanks for subscribing the clips channel is close to a certain Milestone if you haven't
00:57:30
headed over there and watch the clips you should go subscribe but also subscribe to the main podcast because that's what get the first dibs on
00:57:36
everything we talk about during the week catch you guys in the next one see you we're wrong about Twitter again
00:57:47
waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Robin we are partnering with VOX media podcast Network and our intro music was created by vain Sill
00:57:57
[Music] foreign [Music]