00:00:00
What are the most popular questions
00:00:02
people come to you with as a sleep
00:00:03
doctor?
00:00:04
>> There's three biggies. Number one is,
00:00:06
"What do I do if I fall asleep, okay,
00:00:08
and I wake up in the middle of the night
00:00:09
and I can't fall back asleep?"
00:00:10
>> And you can help people with that.
00:00:11
>> Absolutely. The second question is,
00:00:13
"What pillow should I buy?" And I'm
00:00:15
going to walk you through which pillows
00:00:16
make sense for which people. And then
00:00:18
another one that people ask me all the
00:00:20
time is, "What's the best time to have
00:00:22
sex?"
00:00:22
>> That's a strange thing for somebody of
00:00:24
your profession to be
00:00:26
>> about. Well, let me explain why. So,
00:00:27
I've been an actively practicing sleep
00:00:29
specialist for 26 years. I take care of
00:00:31
people's sleep problems like apnea,
00:00:32
insomnia, and I'm really interested in
00:00:34
the things that you might be doing right
00:00:36
now that are messing up your sleep that
00:00:37
are easy to fix. So, for example, most
00:00:39
people don't know that they have a
00:00:41
genetic sleep code inside them called
00:00:42
their chronoype, which decides when your
00:00:45
brain releases things like melatonin,
00:00:46
cortisol, adrenaline, and dopamine. And
00:00:49
so I can show you based on your
00:00:50
chronotype when it's bedtime, but also
00:00:52
the perfect time of day to do almost any
00:00:54
activity, including the perfect time to
00:00:56
have coffee and alcohol. Crazy. There's
00:00:59
even data to show that your ability to
00:01:02
understand complicated concepts improves
00:01:04
when you're more in line with your
00:01:06
chronoype. Now, there are three known
00:01:07
chronotypes, but what I'm famous for is
00:01:10
discovering a fourth one, which I think
00:01:12
might be you. So, we're going to talk a
00:01:14
lot about that. We're also going to talk
00:01:15
about dreams because dreams can tell you
00:01:18
things about yourself that you may not
00:01:20
want to know. And then there's how to
00:01:21
fix jet lag, whether you should sleep
00:01:22
with a TV on, the truth about melatonin
00:01:24
supplementation, and my favorite way to
00:01:26
get magnesium.
00:01:27
>> Before we get into all of that, shall we
00:01:29
go and look at the best possible sleep
00:01:30
position?
00:01:31
>> Yeah, let's check it out.
00:01:35
>> Guys, I've got a quick favor to ask you.
00:01:37
We're approaching a significant
00:01:38
subscriber milestone on this show and
00:01:40
roughly 69% of you that listen and love
00:01:43
this show haven't yet subscribed for
00:01:44
whatever reason. If there was ever a
00:01:46
time for you to do us a favor, if we've
00:01:48
ever done anything for you, given you
00:01:50
value in any way, it is simply hitting
00:01:52
that subscribe button. And it means so
00:01:54
much to myself, but also to my team cuz
00:01:55
when we hit these milestones, we go away
00:01:56
as a team and celebrate. And it's the
00:01:58
thing, the simple, free, easy thing you
00:02:00
can do to help make this show a little
00:02:01
bit better every single week. So that's
00:02:04
a favor I would ask you. And um if you
00:02:06
do hit the subscribe button, I won't let
00:02:08
you down. And we'll continue to find
00:02:10
small ways to make this whole production
00:02:11
better. Thank you so much for being part
00:02:14
of this journey. Means the world. And uh
00:02:15
yeah, let's do this.
00:02:20
>> Dr. Bruce, yes. What is it you do? Why
00:02:24
does it matter so much now? And what
00:02:28
perspective do you take on what you do
00:02:30
that is atypical versus other people I
00:02:33
might have spoken to about this subject?
00:02:35
>> I'm a sleep doctor. Um I take care of
00:02:37
people's sleep problems like apnea,
00:02:39
narcolepsy, insomnia, things like that.
00:02:42
I've dedicated a good portion of my
00:02:44
career not just to understanding how to
00:02:46
treat those disorders which are sleep
00:02:48
disorders, but what I also I call
00:02:50
disordered sleep. I'm really interested
00:02:52
in behavioral habits. What's going on?
00:02:55
what are the things that you might be
00:02:56
doing right now that are kind of messing
00:02:58
up your sleep that are easy to fix um
00:03:00
and be able to maybe change how things
00:03:02
are going forward? You know, I I didn't
00:03:04
start out thinking I was going to become
00:03:05
a sleep doctor if I'm going to be honest
00:03:07
with you. Like that that was not on the
00:03:08
on the path. Um I was actually going in
00:03:11
a completely different direction. And
00:03:13
one of the things I really discovered
00:03:15
was when you change someone's sleep,
00:03:17
dude, you change their life. Like it is
00:03:19
fundamental to who they are. And it's
00:03:22
important for me to be a sleep educator
00:03:24
in a way, shape, and form that's
00:03:25
practical so that people can actually
00:03:27
get something from what I'm talking
00:03:28
about and apply it right then and there.
00:03:30
>> And there's probably a couple of million
00:03:32
people that have clicked onto this
00:03:33
conversation to listen.
00:03:34
>> Yeah.
00:03:35
>> Who is this conversation for?
00:03:37
>> I think it's for anybody out there who's
00:03:39
either curious about sleep or wants to
00:03:41
try to improve their sleep or maybe
00:03:43
suspicious that they could have a
00:03:44
problem with their sleep. I think any
00:03:46
one of those three types of people would
00:03:48
find tremendous value here. And what are
00:03:50
we going to be able to do for those
00:03:51
people today specifically?
00:03:53
>> So, I'm going to give people um several
00:03:54
different like plans, if you will, uh
00:03:57
maybe even a five-step plan of things
00:03:58
that they can absolutely learn how to
00:04:00
do. They're also going to learn about a
00:04:01
genetic sleep code that they have inside
00:04:03
them called their chronoype. A lot of
00:04:05
people don't even know that they have a
00:04:07
chronoype or maybe they've heard of the
00:04:08
of the idea, but they haven't ever heard
00:04:10
of the term. We're going to learn a lot
00:04:12
about that. We're also going to talk
00:04:13
about dreams a little bit. Um I'm
00:04:15
excited to have the opportunity to do
00:04:17
that. I've spent the last year and a
00:04:18
half learning more about how to use
00:04:20
dreams in my clinical work as a
00:04:22
psychologist, which is very interesting
00:04:24
stuff. So, I'm excited to share some of
00:04:26
that. So, I think people are going to
00:04:27
learn a whole bunch.
00:04:28
>> And dreams matter.
00:04:29
>> Oh, yeah. They absolutely matter. I'm I
00:04:31
call dreams emotional metabolism, right?
00:04:34
And so, when you're dreaming, what is
00:04:36
you what is the function? What is the
00:04:38
purpose? What are you doing? You're
00:04:40
actually working through your emotional
00:04:42
states that you had during the daytime.
00:04:44
Um this is why we have nightmares,
00:04:46
right? And so in a nightmare, it's a
00:04:47
scary scene and all a sudden it gets so
00:04:49
emotional, you wake up. That is
00:04:51
officially called a nightmare. That
00:04:53
awakening, but you stop processing. And
00:04:56
when you go back to sleep, you go back
00:04:57
to the dream and you get to that scary
00:04:58
point, you wake up again and you get
00:05:00
caught in this loop, right? And so
00:05:02
dreams matter because they can be
00:05:04
incredibly disruptive. Also, they can
00:05:06
tell you things about yourself that you
00:05:09
may not want to know or may not have in
00:05:12
the front of your mind at all times.
00:05:14
Right? Sometimes people have very
00:05:15
interesting dreams like dreams of being
00:05:17
chased or dreams of their teeth falling
00:05:19
out or all these different things and
00:05:20
they can mean a whole host of different
00:05:22
things. But I want to be super clear.
00:05:24
There's no guide book that says, "Hey,
00:05:26
you know, if you're if you're dreaming
00:05:27
of that you're in water, you hate your
00:05:29
mother." Like, it doesn't really work
00:05:30
that way. Dreams mean something to the
00:05:32
dreamer. And so the goal is to
00:05:34
understand the context within that. So
00:05:36
who is the dreamer? What is the dream?
00:05:39
And then how do those two work together?
00:05:41
And what is the experience that you're
00:05:43
drawing from academically but also
00:05:46
professionally? Give me a view of how
00:05:47
many people you've worked with and
00:05:50
the range of things people come to you
00:05:52
with.
00:05:52
>> Yeah. So I've been an actively
00:05:53
practicing sleep specialist for 26
00:05:55
years. So I work in offices with medical
00:05:58
doctors cuz I'm not a medical doctor. I
00:06:00
have a PhD and I work with them on their
00:06:02
patients. lot of insomnia patients but
00:06:04
also the apneas, the restless legs, the
00:06:06
narcolepsies of the world because I have
00:06:08
kind of a unique distinction in that I'm
00:06:10
one of 168 people in the world who took
00:06:12
the medical boards without going to
00:06:14
medical school and passed. So I can work
00:06:16
within that framework and really
00:06:18
understand a lot of what's going on. I
00:06:20
don't prescribe medication, but if I'm
00:06:21
honest with you, most people don't need
00:06:23
sleep medication as far as I'm
00:06:25
concerned. I can get them to sleep
00:06:26
usually without any medication at all.
00:06:28
>> And you're a psychologist as well?
00:06:29
>> I am. I'm a clinical psychologist. And
00:06:31
how does those two worlds make 1 plus 1
00:06:34
equal three?
00:06:34
>> Sure. So when you talk about sleep,
00:06:36
psychology is all over the place. I
00:06:38
would argue 75% of the reason people
00:06:41
don't sleep is anxiety or fear. That
00:06:43
really falls well within the range of
00:06:45
psychology for sure. Um, and it's
00:06:47
different kinds of fears. It's fears
00:06:49
that you know about that are right in
00:06:50
your face, like something that's going
00:06:52
on in your daytime, but it could be
00:06:53
other fears. It could be fears of your
00:06:55
relationship. It could be financial
00:06:56
fears. It could be a whole host of
00:06:58
different things. So, I think there's a
00:06:59
lot of psychology that gets to be played
00:07:01
in all of this kind of thing.
00:07:02
>> I got two more questions before we
00:07:03
really get into the details and
00:07:05
specifics and start really helping the
00:07:06
audience with whatever they're dealing
00:07:07
with.
00:07:08
>> The first is we have lots of props here.
00:07:11
>> Yes.
00:07:12
>> Give me a a topline view of the types of
00:07:14
things you're going to show me and why
00:07:16
you've brought all of these wonderful
00:07:17
props.
00:07:17
>> Absolutely. So, I get asked a lot of
00:07:19
questions as you might imagine and um
00:07:21
one of the big questions that I get
00:07:23
asked is what bed and pillow should I
00:07:25
buy? So, sitting next to you is a large
00:07:27
stack of pillows, all different types,
00:07:29
actually. And I want to be able to show
00:07:30
some of your viewers how you look at
00:07:32
pillows and which pillows make sense for
00:07:34
which people. Believe it or not, there's
00:07:36
like a fitting process. We're going to
00:07:37
go through that. This device right here
00:07:39
is a sleep test, believe it or not. So,
00:07:42
it used to be we'd have to send you to
00:07:43
the hospital. Yeah, you can unwind it.
00:07:45
Uh, you have to send you to the
00:07:46
hospital. We'd put 27 electrodes all
00:07:49
over your body, respiratory belts across
00:07:51
your chest. We'd have cameras zoomed in
00:07:52
on you. And then, by the way, you're
00:07:54
supposed to be able to go to sleep,
00:07:55
right? And we're supposed to be able to
00:07:56
monitor you. Now, historically, we were
00:07:58
able to do that pretty well. But once
00:08:00
COVID hit, nobody wanted to sleep in the
00:08:02
same bed that somebody else had been
00:08:04
sleeping in the day before. So, now we
00:08:05
have what are called HSTS or home sleep
00:08:08
tests.
00:08:09
>> Wow.
00:08:10
>> Yeah. We'll talk about how to use it and
00:08:11
and what it can tell you.
00:08:12
>> My last question before we get into the
00:08:14
details is what are the most popular
00:08:16
questions that people come to you with
00:08:18
as a sleep doctor?
00:08:20
>> Yeah. So, I'd say there's probably three
00:08:22
biggies, right? Number one is, "Hey, Dr.
00:08:24
Bruce, I fall asleep just fine, but I
00:08:27
wake up somewhere between 1 and 3:00 in
00:08:29
the morning, and it either takes me 20
00:08:31
minutes or 3 hours to fall back asleep.
00:08:33
What the heck is going on there?"
00:08:35
>> And you can help people with that.
00:08:36
>> Absolutely. I'm going to give everybody
00:08:38
a exactly what I do in clinic. Like, I'm
00:08:40
going to explain to everybody exactly
00:08:42
what I say to my patients and how to go
00:08:44
about getting through that particular
00:08:45
problem because it's it's so flagrant.
00:08:48
Everybody needs to know how to how to
00:08:49
work with that. The second question
00:08:51
would be um what bed should I buy or
00:08:53
what pillow should I buy? I think we're
00:08:54
going to address that over here. Um and
00:08:57
then another one that people ask me all
00:08:59
the time is, you know,
00:09:02
is there some kind of timing? Is there
00:09:04
some like I feel like my body is off.
00:09:06
They say this all the time. They're
00:09:07
like, if I just lived in a different
00:09:09
time zone, I feel like everything would
00:09:11
work out well. So the very basics of
00:09:14
sleep.
00:09:14
>> Uhhuh.
00:09:15
>> What do I need to know about what sleep
00:09:16
is, the role it solves for us to even
00:09:19
understand the context of the things
00:09:20
we're going to talk about today?
00:09:21
>> Yep. There's only a few things that are
00:09:23
truly important to understand about
00:09:24
sleep. One is how does sleep work in the
00:09:26
brain. It turns out that there's two
00:09:28
separate systems in the brain. One is
00:09:30
called your sleep drive. The other is
00:09:32
called your sleep rhythm. And they both
00:09:34
work uh in an interesting way. They're
00:09:35
both a little bit like hunger, right? So
00:09:37
sleep drive is like hunger because right
00:09:39
I'm hungry. I'm hungry. I'm hungry. I
00:09:40
eat something. that hunger begins to
00:09:41
dissipate. Same holds true with sleep.
00:09:43
The longer you stay awake, the more the
00:09:45
more sleepy that you get. When you look
00:09:47
at it from a biology standpoint, it's
00:09:49
kind of interesting. So, when a cell
00:09:50
eats a piece of glucose, something comes
00:09:52
out the back end. One of those things is
00:09:53
called a denisonin. It works its way
00:09:55
through your system and goes to a very
00:09:57
specific receptor area, as a denisonin
00:09:59
accumulates, you get sleepier and
00:10:00
sleepier and sleepier. Now, why am I
00:10:02
going into so much detail? Turns out
00:10:04
when you look at a denisonin and you
00:10:06
look at caffeine, they're off by one
00:10:08
molecule. So, here's a little tip or
00:10:12
trick early in the pod for everyone. I
00:10:14
call it the nappa latte. So, what you do
00:10:17
is you take a cup of drip black coffee,
00:10:20
just throw in a couple of ice cubes,
00:10:21
right? Merely to cool it down, drink it
00:10:23
as fast as you can, and immediately take
00:10:25
a 25minute nap. The adenosin that's
00:10:28
built up in your brain will burn through
00:10:30
while you're napping. Caffeine, since
00:10:31
it's so close in molecular structure,
00:10:34
can fit into that receptor site. It
00:10:36
blocks any new adenosin. You're good for
00:10:38
four hours, guaranteed. I use it with
00:10:41
every CEO that I work with. So, let's
00:10:43
say you only got three hours of sleep
00:10:44
the other night and you've got a big
00:10:46
presentation to do or an awards ceremony
00:10:48
or something like that. You can do a
00:10:49
nappa latte for about 25 minutes or so
00:10:52
and you will feel much better. That's
00:10:55
sleep drive.
00:10:56
>> Let me just
00:10:57
>> Sure.
00:10:57
>> I want to make sure I really understand
00:10:58
this. Can you explain this to me again
00:11:00
as if I'm a 16-year-old? by having a
00:11:03
coffee and then taking a nap would make
00:11:06
me feel energetic because one would
00:11:08
think that having a coffee and taking a
00:11:10
nap are like
00:11:11
>> would be almost impossible, right? So,
00:11:13
number one, the caffeine doesn't kick in
00:11:15
before the end of the nap. So, a lot of
00:11:17
people think when I drink coffee, boom,
00:11:19
it just kind of spins up and all a
00:11:21
sudden I'm able to, you know, I get a
00:11:23
lot of energy from it. That's really not
00:11:24
actually how caffeine works. It has to
00:11:26
go down, has to get absorbed, has to be
00:11:27
digested. And so while all that's going
00:11:29
on, which takes approximately 25 to 30
00:11:32
minutes, you're actually taking a nap to
00:11:34
lower the amount of adenosin that has
00:11:36
built up in your brain. Let's say it's 2
00:11:38
o'clock in the afternoon and you only
00:11:40
slept for 4 hours and you are dragging,
00:11:42
right? All that adenosine that's built
00:11:44
up when you take that 25minute nap,
00:11:45
you'll burn through a lot of it and then
00:11:47
caffeine fits in and blocks any
00:11:50
additional adenosin from coming in. So
00:11:52
that way you're actually adding caffeine
00:11:55
to the situation and boom, your energy
00:11:57
goes straight. Okay. So adenosine is
00:12:00
makes me tired when it's docked in my
00:12:02
brain.
00:12:02
>> Exactly.
00:12:03
>> So I have 4 hours sleep which means
00:12:05
there's lots of adenosine and sleep get
00:12:08
clears the adenosine.
00:12:09
>> Correct. And then caffeine comes in
00:12:10
because it fits so perfectly into that
00:12:12
receptor site
00:12:13
>> and off you go. That's sleep drive.
00:12:16
Sleep rhythm has to do with your
00:12:17
circadian rhythm. Right. And so lots of
00:12:20
lots of information about that. But
00:12:21
basically your circadian rhythm is also
00:12:24
a lot like hunger. Right? You ever
00:12:25
notice you're hungry around breakfast
00:12:26
time, around lunchtime, around dinner
00:12:28
time, right? That's your circadian
00:12:29
rhythm for hunger. For sleep, most
00:12:31
people, at least here in North America,
00:12:33
have a tendency to fall asleep somewhere
00:12:35
between 10:30 and 11:00, 11:30 at night.
00:12:38
So, that's kind of the circadian rhythm
00:12:39
there. So, when your circadian rhythm is
00:12:41
high and your drive is high, you sleep.
00:12:44
But if either one of them is off, that's
00:12:45
when you have a sleep disorder or
00:12:47
disordered sleep.
00:12:48
>> My circadian rhythm is high.
00:12:50
>> When your circadian rhythm is on point,
00:12:52
high is probably not the right word. On
00:12:54
point. So meaning you are abiding by
00:12:56
your circadian rhythm. Now another
00:12:58
question you might say to me is well how
00:12:59
do I know what my circadian rhythm is?
00:13:01
And we're going to talk a lot about
00:13:02
chronotypes cuz that's what your
00:13:03
circadian rhythm is.
00:13:04
>> Okay. So let's do chronotypes then.
00:13:05
You've got some cards in front of you.
00:13:07
>> I do. I kind of like these cards. So
00:13:09
when we talk about chronotypes, a lot of
00:13:11
people may have heard of the idea but
00:13:15
not actually heard the term chronoype
00:13:17
before. So if anybody out there has ever
00:13:19
been called an early bird or a night
00:13:21
owl, those are chronoypes. So, we've got
00:13:23
early birds. These are people who, by
00:13:25
the way, this is genetic. You don't you
00:13:27
don't actually get to choose this.
00:13:29
There's a special area on your genome
00:13:31
called the PER3 area. And when you have
00:13:34
something called a single nucleotide
00:13:35
polymorphism or a snip. If it's flipped
00:13:38
one way, you're an early bird. If it's
00:13:40
flipped another way, you're a night owl.
00:13:42
If it's not flipped, you're in the
00:13:43
middle. Okay? So, so far, I haven't told
00:13:46
anybody anything new. Like, this is this
00:13:47
is all stuff that we've already learned.
00:13:49
The new part is this irregularity that
00:13:52
seems to happen for people during for
00:13:54
their sleep schedule. Specifically, an
00:13:56
irregularity in their melatonin and
00:13:58
cortisol production. So, all of this is
00:14:01
predicated on when does your body make
00:14:03
melatonin. So, if you're an early bird,
00:14:05
your body makes melatonin earlier in the
00:14:08
night starting at around 8:00 in the
00:14:09
evening. Makes you want to go to bed
00:14:11
around 9:30. You have a question.
00:14:12
>> So, melatonin is a hormone
00:14:14
>> it is
00:14:14
>> that
00:14:15
>> you produce inside of your body that
00:14:17
actually helps you sleep. It guides, it
00:14:19
tells your body when it's bedtime, which
00:14:22
is a little bit different than the
00:14:23
adenosine, which makes you feel sleepy.
00:14:26
>> I guess people listening now would be
00:14:27
asking themselves, why does it matter to
00:14:28
know my chronotype? Like, as it relates
00:14:30
to my productivity, the way I live my
00:14:32
life, my relationships, whatever matters
00:14:33
to me, why does it matter?
00:14:35
>> Because I can show you based on your
00:14:36
chronoype the perfect time of day to do
00:14:38
almost any activity. So if you f if you
00:14:41
know when your body is doing certain
00:14:43
things, when it has melatonin or when it
00:14:45
has cortisol or adrenaline or all these
00:14:47
other things, if you know the schedule,
00:14:49
you can actually just change your
00:14:50
activity to when your body is naturally
00:14:52
producing the hormone and then you do
00:14:54
the hormone better.
00:14:55
>> Okay,
00:14:56
>> so let's talk about the easy one, which
00:14:58
is sex, right? So a lot of people want
00:15:00
to know, "Hey, Michael, what's the best
00:15:01
time to have sex?" By the way, I think
00:15:03
that might be the third question that I
00:15:04
get asked most um often other than uh
00:15:07
the insomnia one and the mattress one I
00:15:09
think is what's the best time for sex
00:15:10
might be the the other question that I
00:15:12
get asked more than anything.
00:15:12
>> Must be tricky if you the time you want
00:15:14
to have sex and the time your partner
00:15:15
wants to have sex are off.
00:15:17
>> Well, think about it like this. What if
00:15:18
your partner's an early bird and you're
00:15:20
a night owl?
00:15:21
>> Yeah, I think that's me.
00:15:23
>> Don't worry, we're we're going to be
00:15:24
able to fix you. So, first of all,
00:15:26
there's a couple of different answers to
00:15:27
this question. So, number one is you
00:15:30
want to have a time. So, first of all,
00:15:31
most people are intimate between 10:30
00:15:33
and 11:30 at night. That's just a survey
00:15:35
that we did. So, it makes kind of a lot
00:15:37
of sense. But here's what's interesting
00:15:38
is your hormone profile doesn't look too
00:15:41
good at 11:30 at night for having sex.
00:15:43
In order to have successful sex, you
00:15:44
want to have estrogen, testosterone,
00:15:46
progesterone, adrenaline, and cortisol
00:15:48
all to be high and melatonin to be low.
00:15:51
What do you think your hormone profile
00:15:52
looks like at 10:30 at night?
00:15:54
>> It's literally the opposite, right?
00:15:55
Melatonin is high and all those other
00:15:57
things are low. That's hint number one
00:16:00
as to when would probably be the best
00:16:01
time to have sex. Hint number two, if
00:16:03
you happen to be having sex with
00:16:04
somebody who was born biologically male,
00:16:07
what do most men wake up with in the
00:16:08
morning? An erection. If that's not
00:16:10
mother nature telling you when to use
00:16:12
that thing, I don't know what is. Right?
00:16:15
So, when you start to look at it, and we
00:16:16
actually did the surveys, we discovered
00:16:18
that people actually have greater
00:16:20
connection and greater performance in
00:16:23
their sex when they have sex in the
00:16:25
morning time. Now, do you have to brush
00:16:27
your teeth and throw in a little
00:16:28
mouthwash first? Yes, of course you do.
00:16:30
Like, let's be fair to your partner
00:16:31
here. But you end up learning quite a
00:16:34
bit. Again, your body is telling you
00:16:36
this is actually the perfect time to do
00:16:38
something like this. Did you know
00:16:39
there's like a perfect time to have
00:16:41
coffee?
00:16:42
>> I didn't.
00:16:42
>> Yeah, there's absolutely a perfect time
00:16:44
based on your chronoype, too. One of the
00:16:46
first things that I ask people all the
00:16:47
time, I'll ask you, um, is the first
00:16:50
liquid that crosses over your lips in
00:16:51
the morning caffeinated?
00:16:53
>> Yes. So, let's talk about why that's
00:16:55
probably not the best idea. So, most
00:16:57
people don't know, sorry, most people
00:16:59
don't know, but uh sleep in and of
00:17:00
itself is a dehydrative event. You lose
00:17:03
almost a full liter of water just from
00:17:06
the humidity in your breath by by
00:17:08
breathing all night long. Caffeine is a
00:17:11
diuretic, which mean it makes you have
00:17:12
to go pee. So, when you're already lost
00:17:15
a liter, now you add a couple of cups of
00:17:17
caffeine, which makes you have to pee,
00:17:19
you're going to turn into a raisin
00:17:21
before this whole thing is through.
00:17:22
Okay? So, we need to get some water
00:17:24
inside of you. And so, one of the big
00:17:25
recommendations that I give all of my
00:17:27
patients is don't have caffeine for the
00:17:29
first 90 minutes you're awake. Now,
00:17:33
you're going to sit here and say, "9
00:17:35
minutes? That's a Michael? That's a long
00:17:37
time not to have any caffeine." Like,
00:17:39
how am I going to do that? Like, I've
00:17:40
got my morning routine. I can smell the
00:17:42
coffee in the morning. It smells so
00:17:43
good. Everything's going. How's how's
00:17:45
this going to work? Let me explain the
00:17:46
biology. In order to exit a state of
00:17:48
unconsciousness, you need two hormones,
00:17:50
and you need a lot of them. You need
00:17:51
adrenaline and cortisol and they both
00:17:53
wake you up. When you have a brain
00:17:55
that's full of adrenaline and cortisol
00:17:56
and you add caffeine to it, it's like
00:17:59
it's like adding weak tea to somebody
00:18:01
who's taking cocaine. Okay? It's not a
00:18:04
very powerful stimulant compared to the
00:18:06
hormones that are in your brain that are
00:18:08
a powerful stimulant. But if you just
00:18:10
wait 90 minutes, cortisol and adrenaline
00:18:13
naturally drop. If you have your
00:18:14
caffeine, then it actually boosts the
00:18:17
cortisol and gives you a bigger bang for
00:18:19
your buck. M
00:18:20
>> so you hydrate before you caffeinate and
00:18:23
about the amount somewhere between 15
00:18:25
and 20 ounces of water if you can get
00:18:27
that down in the first hour and a half
00:18:29
that you're awake.
00:18:30
>> What's that in English terms?
00:18:32
>> Oh, I don't know what that we'll have to
00:18:33
look it up.
00:18:33
>> Is it one cup? Is it two cups?
00:18:35
>> Oh, I would say it's probably 3 to four
00:18:37
cups of water.
00:18:38
>> Okay. Well, that's a lot.
00:18:39
>> Well, don't forget you've lost a lot of
00:18:41
water while you're sleeping and you
00:18:43
might have lost it the previous day
00:18:44
because let's say you worked out or
00:18:46
things like that.
00:18:47
>> So, let's get into these chronotypes
00:18:48
then.
00:18:48
>> Yeah. So, let's start off with the lion.
00:18:51
So, lions are my early birds. Um, you
00:18:54
know you've got a lion in your midst
00:18:56
when you get an email at 6:00 a.m.,
00:18:58
right? That's somebody who's been up for
00:19:00
a while and who's got their brain kind
00:19:01
of cooking. Um, lions like to make a
00:19:03
list and go from step one to step two to
00:19:05
step three every single day. They get a
00:19:07
lot of confidence and they get a lot of
00:19:09
pleasure following uh this list. But, if
00:19:12
I'm honest with you, being a lion isn't
00:19:13
all it's cracked up to be because dinner
00:19:15
and a movie is out for a line. They've
00:19:17
been up since like 4:30, 5 o'clock in
00:19:19
the morning, right? They don't want to
00:19:20
go see a concert late at night. They
00:19:22
want to go to bed at like 8:30, nine
00:19:24
o'clock. So, when you're looking at
00:19:26
lions or what I early birds, what I call
00:19:28
lions, they've got some very interesting
00:19:30
characteristics. They make up between 10
00:19:32
and 15% of the population from a
00:19:34
biological characteristic standpoint,
00:19:36
their melatonin stops early and their
00:19:38
cortisol starts early. So, their
00:19:41
melatonin stops at about 4:30, 5:00 in
00:19:43
the morning, and that's when cortisol
00:19:44
starts. And that's the reason why they
00:19:46
wake up so early.
00:19:47
>> What sort of window do the lions wake up
00:19:49
in?
00:19:49
>> So, it's interesting because I've got
00:19:51
some lions who are kind of extreme, like
00:19:52
they're getting up at 4:30 in the
00:19:54
morning, which is not really probably
00:19:56
the best idea. But generally speaking,
00:19:58
my lions get up right around 5 5:15 up
00:20:01
until about 6:00 6:30, but they are
00:20:03
definitely my early risers. They have a
00:20:06
small breakfast. They don't like to eat
00:20:07
a lot of food early in the in the
00:20:08
morning time because a lot of these
00:20:10
people like to go work out fairly
00:20:11
quickly after they've uh after they've
00:20:13
woken up. um which is very different
00:20:15
than some of my other chronotypes. My
00:20:16
night owls don't like to work out in the
00:20:18
morning. They don't like to do anything
00:20:20
in the morning. So, my lions like to
00:20:21
work out early in the morning. A light
00:20:23
breakfast. And also, their best work
00:20:25
window is usually somewhere between like
00:20:27
9:30 and 11:30. Like, that's when all
00:20:29
the good stuff gets done. Like when they
00:20:31
have if they have to get details or if
00:20:33
they have to do brainstorming or things
00:20:35
like that, that's really kind of where a
00:20:37
lot of the magic happens for them. By
00:20:39
about two o'clock in the afternoon,
00:20:40
there's not a lot of stuff left inside
00:20:42
the lion to be able to do do a lot of
00:20:44
good things. That's when I have lions do
00:20:46
more physical activities that don't
00:20:48
require a lot of cognition. So maybe you
00:20:50
go for an afternoon walk or maybe you
00:20:52
have uh you know you're you're meeting
00:20:53
with your folks that may not be really
00:20:55
detail oriented but more processoriented
00:20:58
in the afternoon
00:20:58
>> admin and stuff.
00:20:59
>> Yeah, absolutely. I actually had one uh
00:21:02
fellow chronotype his entire company and
00:21:05
then move meetings based on who was
00:21:07
going to be in the meeting. Like it like
00:21:09
he had all the early birds and he had
00:21:11
meeting at 8:00 in the morning and then
00:21:12
all the night owls he had a meeting at
00:21:14
4:00 in the afternoon. He said it was
00:21:16
amazing. He said it worked out really
00:21:17
really well.
00:21:18
>> Wow. What's the next one?
00:21:19
>> So the next one is the bear. So bears
00:21:22
are representative of people that are in
00:21:24
between early birds and night owls,
00:21:26
right? So bears are the best. Honestly,
00:21:29
dude, I wish I was a bear because the
00:21:31
whole schedule of life works on a bear
00:21:33
schedule. 9 to5 is perfect for a bear.
00:21:35
And they make up between 50 and 55% of
00:21:38
the population. So, literally one out of
00:21:40
two people is a bear.
00:21:41
>> And when's their peak work time?
00:21:44
>> So, their peak work time has a tendency
00:21:45
to be sort of in the noon to 2:00 range.
00:21:48
Um, they're a little bit later than what
00:21:50
you would see the line. Some of them, I
00:21:51
think, can actually be better at 11.
00:21:54
It's kind of interesting. And we've had
00:21:55
almost 3 million people take the quiz
00:21:57
and we've discovered that inside of
00:21:58
bears, there appear to be early bears
00:22:00
and later bears. So there are people who
00:22:02
fall into that category but like to get
00:22:04
up a little bit early. So for them their
00:22:06
productivity window is probably 10:30,
00:22:08
11. But for the later bears, it's more
00:22:10
like 11:30, 12, and then it's about a
00:22:12
2hour window after that.
00:22:13
>> For the people listening, um on screen
00:22:16
at the moment is a grid showing you the
00:22:18
different chronotypes, the weight times,
00:22:20
the peak work window, and the sort of
00:22:21
afternoon slump time. What's the next
00:22:24
chronotype?
00:22:25
>> So, the next chronotype is me, the wolf.
00:22:27
>> I think I'm a wolf.
00:22:29
>> You might be a wolf.
00:22:30
>> I love lions. I get it. I get a wolf.
00:22:32
>> Well, you might be. Hey, look, join me.
00:22:34
It'd be great. So, wolves represent the
00:22:36
night owls, right? And so, wolves are my
00:22:40
artists, my actors, my creatives. If you
00:22:42
know a creative, when do they get their
00:22:44
biggest idea? It's not 2 o'clock in the
00:22:46
afternoon, it's 2 o'clock in the
00:22:47
morning. Wolves are my highest
00:22:49
risktakers. I know that that probably
00:22:51
you fall into that category as well.
00:22:53
Wolves are the folks that show up at the
00:22:55
party at 11 o'clock at night, but they
00:22:56
stay till 2 o'clock in the morning and
00:22:58
they help you clean up and they hate
00:23:00
mornings more than anything.
00:23:03
>> So, should we talk about dolphins?
00:23:04
>> What's the next one? Yeah,
00:23:05
>> dolphins. This is the category that you
00:23:07
fell into. So, let's talk about who are
00:23:09
the dolphins and and what does this
00:23:11
actually represent? So, dolphins are
00:23:13
usually highly intelligent. They're
00:23:15
usually people who are fast-talking,
00:23:17
well- read. These are people who are a
00:23:19
lot like a lion in terms of they like to
00:23:21
get up. They crave longer bouts of
00:23:23
sleep, but unfortunately their body just
00:23:25
doesn't have a long sleep drive and so
00:23:27
they get really frustrated a lot of
00:23:29
times. Um, also I think they have just a
00:23:31
teeny bit of anxiety behind them. So a
00:23:34
lot of them, for example, the details
00:23:36
really matter to a dolphin, right?
00:23:38
Versus other people where details might
00:23:40
not matter nearly as much. I think a lot
00:23:42
of my dolphins have got just a little
00:23:43
bit of obsessivecompulsive disorder. So
00:23:46
they're kind of focused in on the on the
00:23:48
different things. Like if I ask a
00:23:50
dolphin to do a project, generally
00:23:51
speaking, they're never finished with it
00:23:53
until I say, "Can you just give me the
00:23:55
project back now because they're always
00:23:57
working on a little detail here or
00:23:58
working on a detail there." Um, but
00:24:00
dolphins are my favorite. They're the
00:24:01
people that I actually wrote the book
00:24:02
for. Um, they're the ones that I I enjoy
00:24:04
working with the most. Um, because
00:24:06
they're actually the easiest to work
00:24:08
with because we can once I explain to
00:24:10
them how their hormones can be up and
00:24:11
down and sideways, it can it starts to
00:24:13
make a lot more sense for them. And for
00:24:15
anyone trying to figure out which one of
00:24:17
these they are, where do they go to do
00:24:19
the test and how long does it take?
00:24:20
>> Yeah, you can go to my website. It's
00:24:22
called chronoquiz.com.
00:24:24
Uh, and uh, it takes about 3 4 minutes.
00:24:26
It's not very long at all. It's going to
00:24:28
ask you a bunch of questions about your
00:24:29
sleep, about timing, things like that.
00:24:31
>> Okay, I'll put that in the description.
00:24:33
So, after you finish listening, you can
00:24:34
all go take it and let me know your
00:24:35
thoughts in the comments section as
00:24:36
well. So, once you figure out what your
00:24:38
chronosype is, come back to the episode
00:24:39
and and let me know below,
00:24:40
>> please.
00:24:41
>> And does my sleep change with age,
00:24:43
Michael? It does. Absolutely.
00:24:45
>> So, do my do my chronotypes change with
00:24:47
age?
00:24:47
>> They do, actually. So, believe it or
00:24:49
not, you've gone through all the
00:24:50
chronotypes already. When you're an itty
00:24:53
bitty baby, you're a lion. You go to bed
00:24:55
really early. You wake up really early,
00:24:56
right? Then you're a toddler, right? And
00:24:58
in in like grammar school, you're a
00:25:00
bear. You're going to bed around 7:30.
00:25:02
You're waking up around 7:30. Then
00:25:03
adolescence hits, right? What do you
00:25:05
want to do? Stay up until midnight and
00:25:08
sleep until 2, right? You become a wolf.
00:25:10
Then at about 23 24 your chronotype has
00:25:13
a tendency to set into one of those
00:25:15
three or four things and then you stay
00:25:17
there for an extended period of time
00:25:19
like 25 30 years until you hit my age.
00:25:22
So I'm going to be 58 soon and right
00:25:24
when you hit in the mid-50s what we see
00:25:26
is melatonin production can either slow
00:25:29
down or get earlier. So as an example if
00:25:32
your parents are still alive and you
00:25:33
said hey mom dad I want to go for
00:25:35
dinner. What time would they want to go
00:25:36
for dinner?
00:25:37
>> Early.
00:25:38
>> Right? four o'clock in the afternoon,
00:25:39
4:30 in the afternoon, you're like,
00:25:40
"What is wrong with you, mom? What's
00:25:42
going on?" That's her chronoype is going
00:25:44
backwards and your sleep changes over
00:25:46
the course of time. To be clear, at once
00:25:48
you hit like age probably 50, 45 or 50,
00:25:52
we start to see a slowdown in production
00:25:53
of melatonin. We also see an increase in
00:25:56
what are called EEG arousals. So things
00:25:58
that break up your sleep and make it so
00:26:00
it's not so continuous. That can be
00:26:02
problematic as well. So there's a lot of
00:26:03
things that can happen as you age.
00:26:04
>> So do I start sleeping less as I get
00:26:06
older? You start sleeping poorer
00:26:08
quality. I'm not convinced that it's
00:26:09
always less.
00:26:10
>> And is that going to make me grumpy?
00:26:12
>> Yes, it is.
00:26:13
>> Really?
00:26:13
>> Absolutely. Poor quality sleep is, I
00:26:15
would argue, is much worse than poor
00:26:17
quantity sleep. I I would rather I've
00:26:19
got somebody who got 5 hours of really
00:26:21
great sleep versus seven hours of really
00:26:24
light crappy sleep every time.
00:26:26
>> Does that mean that as I get older, I'm
00:26:27
going to be more grumpy?
00:26:30
>> It depends on the quality of your sleep.
00:26:31
So, what I can teach you is how to not
00:26:34
get poor quality sleep as you age.
00:26:36
Perfect example, a lot of folks who are
00:26:38
a little bit on the older side are used
00:26:39
to drinking coffee late in the day.
00:26:41
Well, if you change that habit, then you
00:26:42
don't have as many sleep problems.
00:26:44
>> And I shouldn't I shouldn't be having
00:26:45
coffee late in the day at all.
00:26:46
>> Probably you want to stop by about 2
00:26:48
p.m., right? So, if you stop around 2
00:26:50
p.m., the halfife of caffeine is between
00:26:52
6 and 8 hours. So, 8 hours later is
00:26:55
roughly 10, which is roughly when people
00:26:56
are kind of wanting to go to sleep. So,
00:26:58
I would say that that would probably be
00:27:00
the the time to do it. I think about my
00:27:01
siblings and us all being woken up for
00:27:03
school and I think about my performance
00:27:05
in school
00:27:06
>> and of all my siblings, there's four of
00:27:08
us.
00:27:09
>> I was the one that always struggled with
00:27:11
being woken up in the morning in part
00:27:12
because I'd gone to bed later.
00:27:14
>> But then I was also the one that
00:27:15
struggled with school the most.
00:27:17
>> Yeah. That characteristic of a wolf
00:27:19
characteristic of this night person. If
00:27:22
I'm honest with you, dude, like most
00:27:24
kids should not be waking up at the time
00:27:25
they're waking up to go to school,
00:27:27
right? I mean so many kids are waking up
00:27:29
at real like you know 5:30 6:00 in the
00:27:31
morning they have an hourong bus ride
00:27:33
then they get there and if you're an
00:27:35
adolescent I don't think anything could
00:27:37
be worse
00:27:38
>> right
00:27:39
>> so we have to really start to try to be
00:27:41
a little bit more thoughtful and look at
00:27:42
like what are some of the activities
00:27:44
that kids are doing how can we get them
00:27:45
to maybe take naps during the day if
00:27:47
they need them um athletic performance
00:27:49
can depend on sleep academic performance
00:27:51
can depend on sleep it's it's
00:27:52
unbelievable all the different things
00:27:54
yes
00:27:54
>> has there ever been any research done
00:27:56
>> there has on different chronotypes
00:27:58
academic performance.
00:27:59
>> There has been actually they haven't
00:28:00
they labeled it directly as chronotypes
00:28:03
but they've looked at it based on age
00:28:04
range and we know that for example here
00:28:06
in the United States there's a big push
00:28:08
for to change school start times so that
00:28:11
way high schoolers aren't starting at
00:28:13
7:00 in the morning because high schools
00:28:15
shouldn't be starting at 7 o'clock in
00:28:16
the morning. Preschoolers should be
00:28:18
starting at 7 o'clock in the morning
00:28:19
because their body naturally wakes up at
00:28:20
that time. So, we've actually seen there
00:28:22
was a great study um that was done at
00:28:24
the University of Minnesota that
00:28:26
discovered that um when they just had
00:28:28
people come in 1 hour later from their
00:28:31
first period, they improved by one full
00:28:33
letter grade, meaning they went from
00:28:35
being C students to being B students or
00:28:37
from B students to A students merely by
00:28:40
changing the timing of their first
00:28:42
class. So that should give you pretty
00:28:45
good insight as to sort of these big
00:28:47
area like and and all children are
00:28:50
vulnerable to this. Like this is not
00:28:51
like I'm not telling you anything that's
00:28:53
new. This is these are studies that have
00:28:54
been going on for quite a while. And
00:28:56
there's actually a whole movement trying
00:28:57
to get school start times to to slow
00:29:00
down now.
00:29:01
>> Looking at some of the research here, it
00:29:02
says research consistently shows that
00:29:04
morning types, which is the
00:29:06
>> lion,
00:29:07
>> the lion, earn higher grades not due to
00:29:09
higher IQ, but because exams are
00:29:11
scheduled during their peak alertness
00:29:12
windows. You got it.
00:29:13
>> That's crazy.
00:29:14
>> Sometimes wolves turn out to be much
00:29:16
smarter, but because they're they can't
00:29:18
perform at those early times, nobody
00:29:20
knows. Remember, wolves are my
00:29:21
creatives. Like, where do you think some
00:29:23
of these create great creative
00:29:24
innovations and ideas come from in the
00:29:26
tech world, right? Like, these are the
00:29:28
wolves that are out there that are up
00:29:30
late at night coding and trying to
00:29:32
figure out what's going on.
00:29:34
>> It's pretty cool when you think about
00:29:35
it. And I just there's this thing called
00:29:37
the synchronous synchrony effect from a
00:29:40
study in 2020 where nearly 800 students
00:29:42
found a clear synchrony effect. Students
00:29:45
performed significantly better when
00:29:47
their class schedule matched their
00:29:49
chronotype.
00:29:49
>> Exactly.
00:29:50
>> Those morning people dominated in
00:29:51
morning classes and and the owls um or
00:29:54
the wolves often caught up and
00:29:56
outperformed the morning people when
00:29:58
tested in the afternoon or evening.
00:30:00
>> Exactly.
00:30:01
>> It's pretty fascinating. Now think about
00:30:03
it like this. Could you imagine a school
00:30:04
system where if we identified children's
00:30:07
chronotypes during their particular age
00:30:08
range and then we changed the testing so
00:30:10
that they got tested when they're at
00:30:11
their peak hours?
00:30:12
>> Yeah.
00:30:13
>> They'd actually do better.
00:30:14
>> People don't know this, but I never do p
00:30:16
podcasts in the morning.
00:30:17
>> I don't blame you ever.
00:30:19
>> You shouldn't. Yeah.
00:30:20
>> It's it's not your time. Yeah.
00:30:22
>> Right. Like you have a very specific
00:30:24
subscribed time that I think works well
00:30:25
for you. So I think you should abide by
00:30:27
that.
00:30:28
>> Duration of sleep. There's lots of
00:30:30
conversation around how long you're
00:30:31
supposed to sleep for. What what's the
00:30:32
truth? Yeah.
00:30:33
>> 8 hours is a myth. Let's be fair. Like
00:30:36
we came up with that from like the 30s.
00:30:38
There was a great study at Stanford that
00:30:40
came up with 8 hours and 13 minutes plus
00:30:42
or minus. And that's kind of where we
00:30:43
came up with that as an idea. The truth
00:30:45
of the matter is somewhere between 7 and
00:30:47
9 hours really is kind of the amount
00:30:49
that people should be looking for. But
00:30:52
some people don't have that luxury. Some
00:30:53
people don't have that much time that
00:30:55
they can put towards sleep and so they
00:30:57
get a little bit less sleep. But for the
00:31:00
lower level limit, I don't like anybody
00:31:02
getting less than 6 hours. When somebody
00:31:04
gets less than 6 hours sleep, their
00:31:06
driving is off. And so you can't operate
00:31:08
machinery. So if you're driving to work
00:31:09
or god forbid, carpooling your kids to
00:31:11
school and you're only you only got, you
00:31:13
know, less than 6 hours of sleep on on
00:31:15
board, it's probably not going to go
00:31:17
well.
00:31:17
>> We we do have to stop here and talk
00:31:19
about parents because listen, you're
00:31:20
either a parent now, you might be
00:31:22
someday. Absolutely.
00:31:23
>> Maybe you won't be. But for those I've
00:31:25
just got a huge amount of respect for
00:31:26
parents because you know I've gone I'm
00:31:28
not a parent yet. I hope I will become
00:31:30
one. But when I see what my brother who
00:31:33
has three kids under the age of what
00:31:35
seven now um
00:31:37
>> how much sleep has he lost?
00:31:39
>> A lot and and and his wife as well. But
00:31:42
um you must get parents coming to you
00:31:44
all the time being like what the hell do
00:31:45
I do? Like I've got the I've got to wake
00:31:46
up when the kids wake up and but I'm
00:31:48
it's destroying my my relationship, my
00:31:50
marriage, my sex, whatever it might be.
00:31:52
>> Yeah. So parenting children and sleep
00:31:55
are difficult to coexist, but they're
00:31:57
not impossible. It really has to do with
00:31:59
discipline and kind of thinking through
00:32:01
some ideas for yourself. When my So I
00:32:04
have a 23-year-old son and a 22-year-old
00:32:06
daughter, so I'm a little bit out of the
00:32:08
the realm of having to deal with them
00:32:09
every day. Um, but I was, like I said
00:32:12
before, I was in charge of mornings uh
00:32:14
at our house waking them up. And it's a
00:32:16
lot, right? And so the very first thing
00:32:17
that I try to explain to parents,
00:32:19
especially if they have a child who has
00:32:21
an irregular sleep pattern and is really
00:32:23
causing chaos for the rest, like one
00:32:25
child who won't go to sleep and it's
00:32:27
keeping every the whole house up. First
00:32:29
thing you want to do, educate the kid,
00:32:31
right? A lot of kids don't know what
00:32:32
they're doing is causing a lot of
00:32:33
problems. They they're just kids.
00:32:35
They're just hanging out having fun. You
00:32:36
know, they're they've got energy. They
00:32:37
want to be awake. So that you want to
00:32:39
educate them and say, "Hey, now is a
00:32:41
particular time to wind down. This is
00:32:43
where your body recovers. this is how
00:32:44
you get to do sports the next day or
00:32:46
theater the next day or ac whatever your
00:32:48
computers whatever your thing is you can
00:32:50
tie it to sleep and performance pretty
00:32:54
easily and so getting them to understand
00:32:56
that becomes very very critical number
00:32:58
two is have some guidelines right have
00:33:00
bedtimes have wake up times and follow
00:33:02
them as quick as closely as you can for
00:33:05
parents oftentimes what I try to tell
00:33:07
them to do is like look after your child
00:33:10
goes to bed if you've got a child that
00:33:11
has problems for sleeping
00:33:14
take turns. Do what I call the on call
00:33:16
method. So, as a doctor, sometimes, you
00:33:18
know, you get a call in the middle of
00:33:19
the night because you you're covering
00:33:20
patients at the hospital for your buddy
00:33:22
or something like that. You're on call.
00:33:24
So, when you've got two people who are
00:33:26
managing one child, one person handles
00:33:28
Monday night, Wednesday night, Friday
00:33:29
night, the other one handles Tuesday,
00:33:31
Thursday, Saturday. You flip a coin for
00:33:33
Sunday. So, if the kid wakes up at 2
00:33:34
o'clock in the morning, both parents
00:33:36
aren't awake. One parent has that
00:33:38
responsibility. the other one can keep
00:33:40
their eyes closed and go to sleep.
00:33:43
Interesting study was done looking at
00:33:44
men and women in bed when a child cries.
00:33:47
So women take care of the child whereas
00:33:50
men lie there and fake sleeping in order
00:33:53
to be able to stay asleep, right? That's
00:33:56
problematic. Um in a lot of
00:33:58
>> they know in the study that they were
00:33:59
fake sleeping
00:33:59
>> because they asked the men afterwards
00:34:00
what were you doing and they all said
00:34:02
they woke up and they were faking it.
00:34:04
It's pretty crazy when you think about
00:34:05
it. But this is a big this is a big deal
00:34:07
for parents, right? A lot of parents
00:34:08
turn to me and they're like, "This is
00:34:10
killing our marriage." Like, "We haven't
00:34:12
had sex in, you know, three years
00:34:13
because we've got a child who maybe the
00:34:15
child has special needs or maybe the
00:34:17
child doesn't have special needs, but
00:34:18
has other things going on or maybe it's
00:34:20
just normal development and and you
00:34:22
know, they're worried about it." And so,
00:34:23
what I like to sit down with parents and
00:34:25
do is number one, let's figure out when
00:34:27
your kid needs to sleep and let's set
00:34:28
some guidelines and rules. But number
00:34:30
two, let's do the same for you.
00:34:32
>> Right? A lot of parents when they're
00:34:33
super stressed out, one of the first
00:34:34
things they do, grab a glass of wine,
00:34:37
right? Wine's about the worst thing you
00:34:38
could possibly do for sleep to be fair.
00:34:41
Now, I'm going to teach people how you
00:34:42
can still have a glass or two of alcohol
00:34:44
and not completely destroy your sleep.
00:34:46
But I want to be very clear about
00:34:47
something. If you're using alcohol as a
00:34:49
stress relief tool at night before bed,
00:34:52
it's messing up your sleep probably
00:34:53
pretty bad.
00:34:54
>> You might be asleep, but the quality of
00:34:56
your sleep is
00:34:57
>> is [ __ ] It's awful, right? And
00:35:00
interestingly enough, during the one
00:35:01
stage of sleep that alcohol knocks out,
00:35:03
which is stage three and four sleep,
00:35:05
what's the most interesting is that dur
00:35:06
during that particular stage of sleep,
00:35:08
there's something called the
00:35:09
glimpmphatic system that comes in and
00:35:10
scoops out these proteins that have a
00:35:12
tendency to accumulate in your brain.
00:35:14
And when proteins accumulate in your
00:35:16
brain, they wrap around the nerves and
00:35:17
that's called Alzheimer's disease.
00:35:19
>> So stage four sleep is imperative to
00:35:22
avoid Alzheimer's disease. And when you
00:35:24
drink alcohol, you destroy stage four
00:35:26
sleep. H.
00:35:28
>> So, it would be great if nobody drank
00:35:30
alcohol, but I'm not so stupid as to
00:35:32
think that. Plus, I like bourbon. I like
00:35:34
whiskey. I enjoy a glass of champagne
00:35:36
every once in a while. So, how can you
00:35:38
successfully still drink alcohol and
00:35:40
still get a decent night's sleep? I'm
00:35:42
going to give you a quick one, right?
00:35:43
Let's say you're having dinner at 6:30,
00:35:45
have your first glass of wine, then have
00:35:47
a glass of water, right? Then your
00:35:49
second glass of wine starts at, let's
00:35:51
say, almost 7:00, right? Then you have
00:35:53
your second glass of water. Then you
00:35:54
stop everything by 7:30. You wait 3
00:35:57
hours, which would be 10:30, and then
00:35:59
you can go to bed.
00:36:00
>> Why the water? Why the weight?
00:36:02
>> So, the water helps wash it through the
00:36:04
system. Also fills your stomach up so
00:36:06
you don't have too much. So, you you've
00:36:07
got more fluid in there so that way you
00:36:09
don't drink extra wine. Um, and it makes
00:36:11
you have to pee, which flushes the
00:36:12
system out as well. The 3 hours.
00:36:14
>> And it hydrates you.
00:36:15
>> It does. Okay.
00:36:16
>> Absolutely. Because remember, wine pulls
00:36:18
uh both magnesium and uh most water out
00:36:21
of your system because it makes you have
00:36:22
to go pee.
00:36:23
>> Helps with the hangover. So, there's a
00:36:25
couple of different things that I would
00:36:27
say. Number one, this definitely helps
00:36:28
with the hangover because you've got
00:36:29
water going in. For a lot of my
00:36:32
patients, what I tell them is the very
00:36:33
last thing that you could do is have a
00:36:35
little bit of coconut water. So, coconut
00:36:37
water is loaded with zinc, magnesium,
00:36:39
and vitamin B. And those are some of the
00:36:40
things that get pulled out of your
00:36:42
system uh when you're drinking. By the
00:36:44
way, did you know that there are happy
00:36:46
hours specific to your chronoype?
00:36:48
>> Didn't know that. No.
00:36:49
>> Yeah. So, it's kind of interesting. So
00:36:50
here's what's cool about it is your body
00:36:52
produces something called alcohol
00:36:53
dehydrogenase which is how you
00:36:55
metabolize alcohol but it does it at a
00:36:57
particular time and the time is
00:36:58
different for each chronotype.
00:37:01
>> So your body is most efficient at
00:37:03
drinking between basically the hours of
00:37:06
4 and 8 happy hour as a lot of people
00:37:09
know it.
00:37:09
>> And how do you think about what time you
00:37:11
eat at night time?
00:37:12
>> Such a great question. So 3 hours before
00:37:15
bed, you want to stop fluids including
00:37:18
alcohol um and food. You want to just
00:37:20
stop it all 3 hours before bed. So it
00:37:23
takes your body about that level of time
00:37:25
to number one digest, clear all the
00:37:28
food, and then have all the mechanisms
00:37:30
that are working towards digestion now
00:37:32
be able to be refocused onto the
00:37:34
recovery process of sleep. However, I I
00:37:37
will tell you that there's this uh I've
00:37:39
seen a couple people and there are
00:37:40
people out there that are claiming that
00:37:42
if they stop eating at 11:00 in the
00:37:44
morning that it helps their sleep
00:37:46
dramatically at night. And it turns out
00:37:48
it has to do with your heart rate. So,
00:37:50
one of the big metrics that is very
00:37:52
important that all of our viewers and
00:37:54
listeners want to know is you need a
00:37:55
heart rate of 60 or below in order to
00:37:58
enter into a state of unconsciousness.
00:37:59
And when you've got food in your
00:38:00
stomach,
00:38:01
>> your heart rate is up.
00:38:02
>> That's right.
00:38:03
>> So, right. So if the longer you can
00:38:05
wait, the lower your heart rate is, the
00:38:08
easier it gets into sleep. And so when
00:38:10
we're talking about So a great example,
00:38:12
let's get back to parents for a second,
00:38:14
right? You feed your kids at an earlier
00:38:16
time and then what do you do? Oh, then
00:38:18
you go back and have dinner with your
00:38:19
spouse, right? Maybe that's not the best
00:38:21
idea because you're having dinner so
00:38:23
late. Maybe you should have dinner with
00:38:24
your kids, right? And and enjoy that
00:38:26
time with them and eat earlier because
00:38:28
that gives you more space later on to be
00:38:30
able to relax and go to bed. I said that
00:38:32
tracks because I remember I've told this
00:38:34
story once or twice before. I remember
00:38:35
when I was doing some podcasts over here
00:38:37
in LA, we had Seth Rogan on.
00:38:39
>> Sure.
00:38:39
>> And the day before in the hotel before I
00:38:42
lived here, I had a cookie from the mini
00:38:44
bar. I'm going to admit it. I had the
00:38:46
cookie and
00:38:47
>> they're so good.
00:38:47
>> It was And then I went to bed pretty
00:38:49
quickly.
00:38:50
>> Oh god,
00:38:50
>> we were just terrible. And I was looking
00:38:52
at my whoop the next day ad
00:38:55
>> and it my heart rate
00:38:57
>> was like 75 or 80 for the first 2 to 3
00:39:02
hours after I got into bed.
00:39:03
>> Isn't that crazy?
00:39:04
>> And I woke up feeling like hell.
00:39:06
>> Yep.
00:39:07
>> Terrible day the next day. I was
00:39:09
terrible during the conversation
00:39:11
>> and I looked at my go, "Oh my god, it
00:39:12
was that cookie. It put my heart rate
00:39:14
high."
00:39:14
>> So also on top of that is sugar.
00:39:17
>> Yeah. I mean, [ __ ] me. Yeah.
00:39:18
>> Right. So sugar turn so sugar actually
00:39:20
slows production of melatonin. Remember
00:39:22
melatonin is kind of the key that starts
00:39:24
the Yeah. The key that starts the engine
00:39:25
for sleep.
00:39:26
>> So is there anything else that I can do
00:39:27
to make sure my heart rate is low as I
00:39:30
get into bed?
00:39:31
>> Absolutely. Meditate.
00:39:33
>> Okay.
00:39:33
>> Breath work. All kinds of brings my
00:39:35
heart rate down.
00:39:36
>> Yeah. Absolutely. So what a lot of
00:39:38
people don't realize is just because
00:39:40
we're breathing doesn't mean we're
00:39:41
actually breathing in a way, shape, and
00:39:43
form that can be helpful for us for
00:39:44
sleep. So, in my most recent book,
00:39:46
Sleep, Drink, Breathe, I talk a lot
00:39:48
about breath work and what is it and how
00:39:50
does it work for you. But I'd love to
00:39:52
teach you my favorite form of breath
00:39:54
work and meditation. Um, that I think
00:39:57
you'll you'll get a lot out of. So,
00:39:58
>> and I do this before bed.
00:40:00
>> Exactly.
00:40:00
>> Okay.
00:40:01
>> And you can, by the way, you can do it
00:40:02
in the middle of the night if you wake
00:40:04
up as well. Right. So, let's talk about
00:40:06
how to get how to fall asleep and do
00:40:08
some relaxation exercises for that. And
00:40:10
then I'm gonna give you some different
00:40:11
ones for in the middle of the night. So,
00:40:13
let's talk beginning of the night. So,
00:40:15
number one, you need runway to land the
00:40:17
plane. Okay? So many people think
00:40:20
they're just waiting for their head to
00:40:21
be bobbing in front of the TV and then
00:40:22
they go brush their teeth and they get
00:40:23
in bed and then all of a sudden they're
00:40:24
wide awake and they don't know what's
00:40:26
going on, right? So, you need time for
00:40:28
your system to shut down. It's not an
00:40:30
onoff switch. It's more like slowly
00:40:32
pulling your foot off the gas and slowly
00:40:34
putting your foot on the brake. There's
00:40:36
a process. It should take you about 12
00:40:37
to 15 minutes to actually fall asleep.
00:40:40
Okay? So number one, what I ask people
00:40:42
to do is take the last hour before bed
00:40:43
and chop it up into three 20 minute
00:40:45
segments, right? So let's say you're
00:40:47
going to bed at 11, starting at 10:00.
00:40:49
And by the way, set an alarm on your
00:40:50
phone to to tell you that it's 10:00
00:40:52
because it's really easy to slide by
00:40:55
your bedtime and then all of a sudden
00:40:56
it's like all bets are off. So set the
00:40:58
alarm 20 minutes for [ __ ] you just got
00:41:00
to do. So, in our house, it used to be
00:41:02
getting backpacks together for school
00:41:04
for our kids, finding sports equipment,
00:41:06
maybe laying out my stuff for work the
00:41:08
next day or getting last emails sent,
00:41:10
something like that. 20 minutes for
00:41:12
hygiene, right? Brush your teeth, wash
00:41:14
your face, maybe take a shower,
00:41:16
something along those lines. And then 20
00:41:18
minutes for some form of meditation,
00:41:20
relaxation, prayer. I don't care what
00:41:23
you do, but it has to be something
00:41:25
that's calming to get you there. Okay?
00:41:28
So, my one of my favorite techniques to
00:41:30
do is meditation. Now, I'm going to be
00:41:32
honest with you. I'm a terrible
00:41:34
meditator. I have never been able to do
00:41:36
it. I've actually gotten kicked out of
00:41:38
meditation retreats because I'm the guy
00:41:39
that's like, "What's going on?" Like, am
00:41:41
I doing it right? You know, I'm kind of
00:41:42
that that person. And so, I was I was
00:41:45
told about this tool called a Muse
00:41:46
headband. We have one right here. So,
00:41:49
this is my personal Muse. I actually
00:41:50
brought it from home. And um you'll
00:41:52
notice on the inside there are sensors
00:41:54
here. And there are sensors along the
00:41:56
earpiece here. And so what happens is is
00:41:58
you wear it on your head, right? And
00:42:01
it's measuring your brain waves. And so
00:42:03
when we're Yeah. Check it out. And so
00:42:04
when we're when we're doing it and we're
00:42:06
measuring brain waves. Yep. Exactly. And
00:42:08
that goes on the back part. Yeah. There
00:42:10
you go. So what's cool about this is
00:42:11
it's attached to an app. And then while
00:42:13
it's measuring your brain waves, you're
00:42:15
listening to a particular music. It
00:42:17
could be a guided meditation. It could
00:42:19
be any of those things. And while you're
00:42:21
doing this, the volume gets lower. And
00:42:24
then you know you're getting closer to a
00:42:26
meditative state.
00:42:27
>> The volume comes down when
00:42:28
>> on the app when your brain wave starts
00:42:30
to relax.
00:42:31
>> Oh, okay.
00:42:32
>> So, you're immediately getting feedback.
00:42:33
We can try it if you want. Um, but it's
00:42:36
pretty interesting. And then when you
00:42:37
get to the alpha state, little birds
00:42:39
start chirping.
00:42:40
>> The alpha state.
00:42:41
>> Yeah. The alpha state is when your eyes
00:42:42
are closed and you're at the most
00:42:44
relaxed state of your brain waves. It's
00:42:46
called the alpha state. And that's
00:42:47
really what people are trying to get to
00:42:48
for meditation.
00:42:49
>> And are you affiliated with this company
00:42:50
in any way?
00:42:51
>> I am not.
00:42:51
>> And how much does it cost? I think it's
00:42:53
around $275
00:42:56
I think is the headband.
00:42:57
>> Okay. Interesting.
00:42:58
>> It's pretty fascinating. Um I I've been
00:43:00
pretty impressed with them.
00:43:01
>> So that's meditation.
00:43:03
>> You talked about breath work as well
00:43:04
before.
00:43:04
>> Yeah. Let's talk about it. So one of the
00:43:06
other things that I do is I do something
00:43:08
Well, this isn't breath work. This is
00:43:09
called progressive muscle relaxation. So
00:43:12
this is where you tense and relax
00:43:14
muscles starting from your feet and
00:43:16
going all the way up your body. And as
00:43:18
you tense and relax the muscles, you
00:43:20
feel that relaxation from releasing that
00:43:22
tension and it helps you fall asleep.
00:43:24
Um, actually, you know what I can do is
00:43:25
I can send you a an audio file that has
00:43:28
me walking through progressive muscle
00:43:30
relaxation that we can make available
00:43:31
for everybody if you want. We for free.
00:43:33
It's no big deal.
00:43:34
>> Amazing. I'll put that in the
00:43:35
description below as well.
00:43:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. People will really dig it. I
00:43:37
think they'll really enjoy it. So,
00:43:39
that's another thing that we do. But
00:43:41
now, let's talk about the middle of the
00:43:42
night, right? So, by the way, do you
00:43:44
have this as an issue? Have this has
00:43:46
this happened to you before? It it
00:43:47
happens sometimes and it's typically
00:43:49
when like my sleep is somewhat
00:43:50
disordered or disruptive or when there's
00:43:52
really something on my mind.
00:43:54
>> Yes. So that that precipitatory anxiety
00:43:57
like before a flight like if I have an
00:43:59
8:00 in the morning flight like I sleep
00:44:00
like [ __ ] the night before because I'm
00:44:02
constantly worried about that. Right.
00:44:04
But a lot of times what people do
00:44:05
normally is they just wake up in the
00:44:07
middle of the night and they can't
00:44:07
return to sleep and they're really not
00:44:09
sure why. So number one there's biology
00:44:11
involved. So your core body temperature
00:44:13
rises rises rises and when it hits a
00:44:15
peak it drops. That drop is then a
00:44:17
signal to your brain to release
00:44:19
melatonin. Right? Again, the key that
00:44:21
starts the engine for sleep. However,
00:44:22
your core body temperature continues to
00:44:24
drop, drop, drop. By the way, this is
00:44:25
the reason why we tell people you want
00:44:27
to sleep in the cool, not the warm
00:44:29
environment. Because again, your core
00:44:31
body temperature is dropping. If it's
00:44:32
too hot, your core body temperature
00:44:33
can't go down and you can't get to
00:44:35
sleep,
00:44:35
>> which tracks with evolution.
00:44:36
>> Exactly. So, here's where it gets
00:44:38
interesting is it keeps going, going,
00:44:40
going, and then at some point in time,
00:44:42
your body has to heat up. And if it
00:44:43
doesn't heat up, you go hypothermic.
00:44:45
Guess what time that is? Between 1 and 3
00:44:48
o'clock in the morning.
00:44:49
>> Oh, your body starts heating up at 1 1
00:44:50
and 3.
00:44:51
>> Every single person's body on Earth does
00:44:54
this. Everybody on Earth wakes up
00:44:56
between 1 and 3:00 in the morning.
00:44:58
However, most people burp, roll over,
00:45:01
get comfortable, and fall back asleep in
00:45:02
30 seconds. However, there's a select
00:45:05
group of people who end up being my
00:45:06
patients who don't have that. And there
00:45:09
here in lies the problem. So, here are
00:45:10
the steps you want to take in the middle
00:45:12
of the night to be able to solve this
00:45:14
issue. So number one, don't go pee. I
00:45:17
know, I know, I know people like, "What?
00:45:20
What are you talking about, Michael?" So
00:45:21
here's what ends up happening is when
00:45:23
people wake up in the middle of the
00:45:24
night, they say to themselves, "Well,
00:45:25
I'm up. I might as well go pee." Right?
00:45:28
Here's the problem. Remember I told you
00:45:29
the big metric was in order to enter
00:45:31
into a state of unconsciousness, you
00:45:33
need a heart rate of 60 or below. Right?
00:45:35
What do you think happens to your heart
00:45:36
rate when you go from a lying position
00:45:37
to a seated position to a standing
00:45:38
position? You walk across the room, your
00:45:40
heart rate goes straight up. So what we
00:45:42
want to do is keep your heart rate down.
00:45:44
So, if you don't really have to go to
00:45:45
the bathroom, don't go to the bathroom.
00:45:47
75% of people sleep on their sides and
00:45:49
they kind of squunch up, which means
00:45:50
they're putting pressure on their
00:45:52
bladder. So, my guess is is that most of
00:45:54
those people, if all you did was when
00:45:56
you woke up is lie and get on your back
00:45:58
for about 25 seconds and see if you
00:46:00
still need to pee. If you don't need to
00:46:02
pee, stay in bed and keep your heart
00:46:05
rate down. If you need to pee, please go
00:46:07
pee. Right? If you're going to go to the
00:46:09
bathroom, have a strategically placed
00:46:11
nightlight along the way so you don't
00:46:12
have to flip on the light in the water
00:46:13
closet because if you do that, you just
00:46:15
told your brain it's morning and it
00:46:16
stops producing melatonin. But let's say
00:46:18
you don't have to pee. The second thing,
00:46:20
don't look at your phone. Now, this
00:46:23
turns out to be very difficult for 99%
00:46:26
of the people out there because the
00:46:27
first thing they do is they grab their
00:46:28
phone and they head to the bathroom,
00:46:30
right? and they're either checking
00:46:31
emails, looking at Facebook or Twitter
00:46:33
or whatever social media they're on,
00:46:35
>> or we're just trying to figure out what
00:46:36
time it is
00:46:36
>> or and that's where the problem is is as
00:46:39
soon as you see the time, you instantly
00:46:42
do the mental math and now you're pissed
00:46:44
off, right? It's 3:30 in the morning. I
00:46:46
got to get up at 6:00. Sleep, sleep,
00:46:48
sleep. And you try to force your brain
00:46:50
to sleep. Dude, in the history of time,
00:46:53
nobody has been able to force their
00:46:54
brain to sleep, okay? Because your heart
00:46:56
rate's going in the wrong way, right? It
00:46:58
needs to be coming down. So, if you can,
00:47:00
don't look at the clock. All right, so
00:47:01
you haven't peed, you haven't looked at
00:47:03
the clock, but you're still awake and
00:47:04
nothing's going on. Here's where the
00:47:06
breathing technique comes in. It's
00:47:07
called 478
00:47:10
breathing. I did not develop this
00:47:11
technique. It was developed by Dr.
00:47:13
Andrew Wild, Harvard trained natural
00:47:14
doctor, super smart dude. Um, and uh, he
00:47:17
did it for the military to teach them
00:47:19
how to lower their heart rate during
00:47:21
stressful situations. We use it because
00:47:23
it helps lower our heart rate past 60.
00:47:25
And it's super simple. I'm going to get
00:47:26
you to try it. So, go ahead and sit up
00:47:28
straight. Okay. And so all you're going
00:47:30
to do is breathe in for a count of four.
00:47:32
You're going to hold for a count of
00:47:33
seven. And you're going to breathe out
00:47:35
for a count of eight. And I'm going to
00:47:36
walk you through it. I want you to have
00:47:38
your eyes closed. And what I also want
00:47:39
you to do, you're going to go in through
00:47:41
the nose, out through the mouth. And
00:47:42
then what I also want you to do is
00:47:44
picture the number in your head. So when
00:47:46
I say breathe in two, three, four, you
00:47:49
should picture the two, the three, the
00:47:51
four in your mind's eye. Okay?
00:47:53
>> With my eyes closed.
00:47:54
>> With your eyes closed. You ready?
00:47:56
>> Yep. Breathe in. 2 3 4. Hold. 2 3 4 5 6
00:48:04
7. Push. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. Good. You want
00:48:12
to get through about 20 cycles of that.
00:48:14
It's incredibly relaxing. I actually did
00:48:17
it before I came out here to do the pod
00:48:19
because it helps lower my heart rate and
00:48:21
gets me centered.
00:48:24
H. It's pretty remarkable. Now, there's
00:48:27
some problems with the technique. Number
00:48:28
one, sometimes it's hard to hold for
00:48:30
seven, and sometimes it's really hard to
00:48:31
push for eight. So, I tell people you
00:48:33
can do this four, five, six, 4, 6, 7, or
00:48:37
478. So, just work your way up to it,
00:48:40
right? If if it's too hard to hold your
00:48:41
breath for 7 seconds or it's too too
00:48:43
hard to push your breath for eight, you
00:48:45
can do a little bit less just while
00:48:46
you're getting used to it. And then the
00:48:48
other big thing is it's hard to figure
00:48:50
out where the 20 cycles is because you
00:48:51
need to get to 20 cycles of this. So,
00:48:53
what I have people do is take their
00:48:54
hands and make light fists while they're
00:48:56
doing this. And when they do one cycle,
00:48:58
they put out a finger. Another cycle,
00:49:00
put out a finger. And before you know
00:49:01
it, you got 10. And when you bring it
00:49:02
back, you've done 20 cycles.
00:49:04
>> It's funny. I just did two and I start
00:49:05
yawning.
00:49:06
>> I know. I just saw that. I'm telling
00:49:07
you, dude, this thing works, right? And
00:49:09
so, I have people do this technique.
00:49:11
Here's the best part is it avoids monkey
00:49:14
mind, right? So, what is monkey mind?
00:49:17
Monkey mind is I'm thinking about stuff
00:49:19
that I have no business thinking about
00:49:21
in the middle of the night for
00:49:22
absolutely no reason. Like what's on the
00:49:24
grocery list or what did I say to my
00:49:26
spouse or did that podcast go okay or
00:49:29
any of the things that might be floating
00:49:30
through your head? You cannot count and
00:49:33
worry at the same time.
00:49:36
>> And why does it work? What's going on in
00:49:39
my physiology? Uh-huh. You're
00:49:40
distracting the brain from the thing
00:49:42
that's stressing you out and it's
00:49:44
lowering your heart rate and then the
00:49:45
natural sleep process comes in after it.
00:49:48
So, all these are are distraction
00:49:49
techniques to be clear. Now, there's
00:49:52
there's several of them out there. One
00:49:53
of the other ones I use for some of my
00:49:54
patients is I tell them, "Hey, count
00:49:56
backwards from 300 by threes. It's
00:49:59
mathematically so complicated you can't
00:50:01
think of anything else and it's so damn
00:50:02
boring. You're out like a light." On
00:50:05
that point of distractions, a lot of
00:50:07
people go to bed listening to podcasts
00:50:09
or movies. Jack was just saying that,
00:50:11
you know, he he needs to listen to
00:50:12
something to fall asleep. I'm the same.
00:50:13
I listen to like serial killer stuff,
00:50:15
>> which is, you know,
00:50:16
>> that's interesting.
00:50:17
>> Don't don't judge me.
00:50:18
>> Wait till we get to the dreams part of
00:50:20
the podcast. I can't wait to hear what
00:50:21
you dream about. I
00:50:22
>> I don't I think I always try and figure
00:50:24
out why it is. And I My sister's the
00:50:25
same, my sister Amanda, and she
00:50:28
>> she listens to serial killer stuff to
00:50:30
fall asleep. I think it's because this
00:50:32
is just hypothesis. My mom would always
00:50:35
ask me to put on forensic files, which
00:50:37
was this like serial murder documentary
00:50:39
thing when we were younger cuz she
00:50:41
couldn't use the remote. So my mom would
00:50:43
say she'd pass me the remote, say, "Put
00:50:44
on forensic files." And I'd like put on
00:50:46
the number for her, right?
00:50:47
>> And so that was always playing in our
00:50:49
house at night time. And we all had TVs
00:50:51
in our bedroom that just mirrored what
00:50:52
was ever what was playing downstairs,
00:50:54
course.
00:50:54
>> So when I got into bed,
00:50:56
>> I'd watch
00:50:57
fall asleep.
00:50:58
>> This explains a lot about you.
00:50:59
>> I know, right? You say that to people,
00:51:01
they think you're yours. Yeah.
00:51:03
>> So, let me tell you what it's like in my
00:51:04
house. And actually, you and I have a
00:51:06
commonality. So, in my house, we have a
00:51:09
big screen TV. It's on all night long.
00:51:12
>> Where? In which room?
00:51:12
>> In my bedroom.
00:51:13
>> Okay.
00:51:14
>> Okay. When I met my wife, she said to
00:51:16
me, "Michael, if you ever happen to
00:51:17
spend the night, I want to let you know
00:51:19
that I sleep with the television on." I
00:51:20
said, "Don't worry about that, Lauren.
00:51:22
I'm gonna be a sleep doctor. I'm gonna
00:51:23
fix that." We we met when I was uh 30,
00:51:26
so uh known her for quite a while. And
00:51:29
uh you ever tried to change something in
00:51:31
your bed partner? Yeah, good luck.
00:51:32
>> Yeah, good luck. So I took the TV out.
00:51:34
She said, "If you ever want to come back
00:51:35
in here again, I suggest you put the I
00:51:37
put the TV back in." And then I studied
00:51:39
her to learn what was going on. And it
00:51:41
turns out that she's listening to it out
00:51:44
of what I call the corner of her ear.
00:51:45
Her eyes aren't even open. And half the
00:51:47
time it's a episode of Seinfeld or
00:51:49
something like that. My wife actually
00:51:51
likes murder mysteries and so it's
00:51:52
usually forensic files or something
00:51:55
along those lines that's going on. But
00:51:57
for her, it's a perfect distraction
00:51:59
technique. Now, there's a second thing
00:52:00
that's important uh in our bedroom that
00:52:03
happens uh is we have two dogs. They
00:52:05
sleep in the bed with us. I'm the
00:52:06
freaking sleep doctor, dude. Like, it's
00:52:09
insane. But the point here is sleep is
00:52:11
flexible. Okay? Just because it works
00:52:14
for you doesn't mean it works for your
00:52:16
bed partner. And and vice versa is also
00:52:18
true, right? Like just because some
00:52:20
people can't sleep with the TV on
00:52:21
doesn't mean that it's going to mess up
00:52:23
your sleep forever to have the
00:52:24
television on cuz it's not. And by the
00:52:27
way, 99% of TVs have timers built into
00:52:29
them. Like if you don't know what it is,
00:52:31
ask your kid. I had to ask my son. He
00:52:32
showed me how to use it. We turned it
00:52:33
off. It wasn't a problem, right? So
00:52:36
creating a sleep environment that is
00:52:38
conducive to sleep for you and your bed
00:52:41
partner can have a lot of variation to
00:52:43
it. And I don't think people there's no
00:52:45
hard and fast rule that says, "Hey,
00:52:47
nobody should ever sleep with the TV
00:52:49
on." I mean, there are people out there
00:52:50
who say that, but quite frankly,
00:52:52
everybody sleeps with the TV on.
00:52:54
>> Well, a lot of people do. I I I wouldn't
00:52:55
put the TV on in our bedroom. I mean,
00:52:58
we've done it once or twice or whatever,
00:53:00
cuz we're watching something and we slip
00:53:01
off to sleep and I wake up and I realize
00:53:03
it's on and I turn it off.
00:53:05
>> But I I also really think it's an
00:53:06
important point to say that people will
00:53:09
listen to podcasts like this. They'll
00:53:10
listen to the like biohackers of the
00:53:11
world and then they'll get so militant
00:53:14
about how they fall asleep that it will
00:53:15
cause friction because one partner is
00:53:16
different.
00:53:17
>> Don't do that. And I had this problem in
00:53:19
my relationship which was
00:53:20
>> my girlfriend sleeps in silence and is
00:53:22
has like just such a glorious routine to
00:53:24
everything she does.
00:53:26
>> And I am
00:53:26
>> completely the opposite
00:53:28
>> and the opposite like I need to like I
00:53:29
want to listen to a murder. I could be
00:53:31
on my phone. It's like when I look at my
00:53:33
Whoop scores
00:53:34
>> works for me.
00:53:35
>> Yeah.
00:53:35
>> It's like I am getting I have I get
00:53:37
great sleep even if I'm listening to a
00:53:39
serial killer documentary.
00:53:41
>> So
00:53:41
>> but not if you eat a cookie before bed.
00:53:42
>> Not if I eat a cookie. That's that's
00:53:44
gone. But I so what I do is I put one
00:53:46
AirPod in in my right ear. So whichever
00:53:49
ear is not going to be on the pillow
00:53:50
>> and it means I can listen to her if she
00:53:52
says something.
00:53:53
>> But when it's silence, all I hear is the
00:53:55
thing that I'm listening to.
00:53:56
>> So I've got a trick for you.
00:53:58
>> And I wake up in the morning and dig the
00:53:59
AirPod out of the bed where it ended up.
00:54:00
>> Right. So now I'm going to help you with
00:54:01
the digging of the AirPod. So first of
00:54:03
all, they now make these things called
00:54:04
pillow speakers.
00:54:06
>> Oh, interesting.
00:54:07
>> Right. So it's a it's a it's a Bluetooth
00:54:09
speaker that will attach to your phone
00:54:10
that you can just slide and it's just
00:54:11
under your pillow so only you can hear
00:54:13
it. So, that's number one. You might
00:54:15
want to consider that. And they're
00:54:16
pretty inexpensive. Number two, they now
00:54:18
make specifically earbuds designed to be
00:54:22
slept in.
00:54:23
>> Oh, nice.
00:54:24
>> So, there's a a new company out called
00:54:25
Next Sense. Um, and they have developed
00:54:28
an earbud that actually measures your
00:54:30
brain waves while you are sleeping. And
00:54:33
when you move into a lighter stage of
00:54:35
sleep, it sends in a frequency signal to
00:54:38
help you go back to sleep or to stay in
00:54:40
that depth of sleep. Brand new company.
00:54:43
Next sense. I have nothing to do with
00:54:44
them. I mean, it's a friend of mine who
00:54:45
owns the company, but I'm not on their
00:54:46
own.
00:54:46
>> I would like something to do with them
00:54:48
>> if we'll figure that out.
00:54:50
>> So, does it allow you to play your music
00:54:52
as well or your or your podcast or
00:54:54
whatever?
00:54:55
>> I can listen to Diary of a CEO every
00:54:57
single night while I fall asleep and it
00:55:00
will make sure that I don't wake up from
00:55:01
any dreams.
00:55:02
>> And you can still like and subscribe and
00:55:03
stuff.
00:55:04
>> Even through the earbuds, of course. I
00:55:06
think everybody should like and
00:55:07
subscribe.
00:55:07
>> That's a good feature like an AI agent
00:55:09
that helps you subscribe. Okay, so
00:55:11
that's that's you woke up in the middle
00:55:13
of the night. You don't pee. You don't
00:55:15
check your phone. You're doing these
00:55:16
breathing exercises. You don't give
00:55:17
yourself a hard time.
00:55:19
>> And then what happens? It doesn't work.
00:55:20
What do you do? Yeah. Right. So, there's
00:55:22
the new research on something called
00:55:24
non-sleep deep rest. We call it yoga
00:55:27
nidra. Okay? It's been around for
00:55:28
thousands of years. When you lie relaxed
00:55:30
in like a corpse pose like this, you're
00:55:32
actually doing something that's valuable
00:55:33
for your sleep. Now, I want to be clear.
00:55:35
It's not the same as sleep, but if you
00:55:36
lie there for an hour, it's like 20
00:55:38
minutes worth of sleep. So everybody
00:55:41
should know that even lying relaxed and
00:55:44
calm is very very helpful right but if
00:55:47
you start to get anxious and your heart
00:55:49
rate starts to tick up you need to get
00:55:51
yourself out of bed because that's when
00:55:53
because all you're doing then is
00:55:54
thinking hey this bed is this place
00:55:56
where I get anxious and pissed off. This
00:55:57
is not a place to sleep. So as long as
00:56:00
you stay nice and quiet the non-sleep
00:56:01
deep rest absolutely the thing to do.
00:56:03
The other big thing that I do and by the
00:56:05
way this happens to me on occasion too
00:56:07
like I'm not immune to it just because
00:56:08
I'm a sleep doctor. You have to stay
00:56:10
positive. And what I what do I mean by
00:56:12
that is everybody when they wake up in
00:56:14
the middle of the night, your brain is
00:56:16
set to negativity. There's no reason you
00:56:18
should be up at 3:00 in the morning that
00:56:20
something good is going on, right?
00:56:21
Nobody's coming in wishing you happy
00:56:23
birthday at 3:00 in the morning.
00:56:24
Something terrible has happened. And
00:56:26
your brain has gotten accustomed to
00:56:27
that. So when it wakes up, it
00:56:29
immediately goes to the negative and you
00:56:31
start thinking about bad things. You
00:56:33
can't stop your first thought, but you
00:56:35
can stop your second thought, right?
00:56:37
Right? And so when you wake up and you
00:56:38
think negative, what I want you to
00:56:40
replace that with is, "Okay, Michael,
00:56:43
for some reason, your body has decided
00:56:45
to wake up at 3:00 in the morning, it's
00:56:47
not the game that I wanted to be playing
00:56:49
tonight. However, I think I'm going to
00:56:51
be okay. I'm just going to lie here and
00:56:53
relax and let the natural sleep process
00:56:55
take over. If I feel my heart rate
00:56:56
increasing, I'm going to go to another
00:56:58
room in the house where I've already got
00:56:59
a book and a light set up so I can do a
00:57:02
little bit of light reading and then
00:57:03
come back to sleep." And I just tell
00:57:05
myself that I give myself permission to
00:57:09
just chill, just relax. And then you
00:57:12
know what happens? The natural sleep
00:57:13
process comes over. As soon as your
00:57:15
heart rate starts to go down, your body
00:57:16
wants to get back to sleep. And so it
00:57:18
really has a lot to do with heart rate.
00:57:20
>> I love having these conversations on the
00:57:22
diio because I have a huge amount of
00:57:25
sympathy and concern for people that
00:57:28
don't get sufficient sleep. And I know
00:57:31
there's a lot of people that don't. And
00:57:32
I actually think it's to some degree
00:57:33
it's somewhat increasing because of the
00:57:34
way we live our lives. I was looking at
00:57:36
some of the stats around the increase
00:57:38
and there's a study done in 2025 and
00:57:42
early 2026 that revealed we're in a
00:57:44
global sleep crisis.
00:57:45
>> Oh yes, we are.
00:57:47
>> Both the CDC and Stanford Medicine
00:57:49
report said that one in three adults and
00:57:51
nearly 80% of teenagers are now
00:57:54
chronically sleepdeprived.
00:57:55
>> Correct. A 2026 survey by the American
00:57:57
Academy of Sleep Medicine found that 93%
00:58:00
of Gen Z admit to regularly losing sleep
00:58:03
due to social media usage. And 71% of
00:58:05
employed respondents globally have said
00:58:08
>> that they sometimes call in sick at
00:58:10
least once or twice due to poor sleep.
00:58:13
>> Just to sleep. Yeah. When I was down in
00:58:15
Australia doing some work down there, a
00:58:17
lot of Australians they take holiday and
00:58:19
they just sleep.
00:58:20
>> Yeah.
00:58:21
>> Just to catch up. Like it's it's pretty
00:58:23
remarkable. We're in a very sleep-d
00:58:25
deprived society and I think there's a
00:58:27
couple of different reasons why that is.
00:58:28
Number one,
00:58:30
>> have you seen what's going on outside in
00:58:31
the world today? It's pretty crazy out
00:58:33
there. Well, I can understand why people
00:58:35
are getting a little anxious.
00:58:36
>> I think one could argue it's been
00:58:38
crazier through history, but we never
00:58:39
knew about it,
00:58:40
>> right? Well, I mean, the media getting
00:58:41
it to getting us this information so
00:58:43
quickly, I think, is definitely what I
00:58:45
would agree with you. It was much
00:58:46
crazier during like World War II, you
00:58:48
know, and stuff like that. Now we're
00:58:50
getting information so quickly and
00:58:52
people are getting so ratcheted up about
00:58:54
it. I think that has something to do
00:58:55
with it. But if I I think the bigger
00:58:56
culprit is people being overweight. You
00:58:58
know, when you look here in the United
00:59:00
States and you look at the obesity
00:59:01
epidemic and you look at people being
00:59:03
overweight, it's something close to like
00:59:04
70s something percent of people in
00:59:06
America are overweight. When you're
00:59:08
overweight, that puts you in line for
00:59:10
potentially having something called
00:59:11
sleep apnea. Now, I want to be clear,
00:59:13
not everybody with sleep apnea is
00:59:14
overweight, but a a large percentage of
00:59:16
the people with sleep apnnea are bigger
00:59:18
people. And so, when you look at a
00:59:20
society that's getting bigger and all
00:59:22
the unhealthy food that we've got going
00:59:24
on, like all this highly processed food,
00:59:26
things of that nature, that isn't
00:59:28
helping anybody, it's adding the pounds.
00:59:30
And specifically, like for men, we gain
00:59:32
weight through our necks. Like I I don't
00:59:34
know if you've ever noticed it, but like
00:59:36
if you ever were heavy and you lose
00:59:37
weight, the first thing somebody says
00:59:38
is, "Oh, it looks like you lost weight
00:59:39
cuz I can tell from your face, right?"
00:59:41
and they're like, "Oh, your neck looks,
00:59:42
you know, different now." And so, we see
00:59:44
a lot of what's going on in the world
00:59:46
from a weight perspective and a food
00:59:48
perspective could be driving some of the
00:59:50
sleep problems. Then there's the anxiety
00:59:52
perspective that I spoke of earlier that
00:59:53
I think comes in. And again, I I agree
00:59:56
with you. I don't think we have more
00:59:57
crazy stuff going on. I think we know
00:59:59
about more crazy stuff that's going on,
01:00:00
>> but also work is now largely digital.
01:00:03
And I imagine for my great-grandfather,
01:00:05
he would go to, I don't know, the
01:00:06
factory or wherever he works. His work
01:00:08
would finish at 6.
01:00:09
>> Yes. Your work doesn't finish at 6 now.
01:00:12
It finishes when you're awake.
01:00:13
>> Yeah. Absolutely. It finishes when you
01:00:15
go to sleep.
01:00:16
>> Yeah. Exactly.
01:00:16
>> Yeah. And and that becomes problematic,
01:00:18
right? Because a lot of times also, by
01:00:20
the way, you need to have dividers in
01:00:22
your home. Like let's say you live in a
01:00:24
studio apartment and your bed is your
01:00:26
couch is your kitchen, right? You have
01:00:28
no designated spot for sleep. Your body
01:00:30
needs to know, hey, this is the spot
01:00:32
where I can chill out and finally get
01:00:35
some rest. And I think a lot of times
01:00:36
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01:01:35
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01:01:36
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01:01:38
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01:01:39
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01:01:41
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01:02:31
>> Which sleep disorder should we start
01:02:32
with?
01:02:33
>> Sleep apnea and insomnia. Sleep apnea,
01:02:35
for folks out there who may not know
01:02:37
what it is, is when you are snoring at
01:02:39
night. Almost everybody who has sleep
01:02:41
apnea snores. Not everybody, but almost
01:02:42
everybody. And when you're sucking air
01:02:44
in, you pull your tongue to the back of
01:02:47
your throat and you cut off your air.
01:02:49
And you literally stop breathing, right,
01:02:51
for a few seconds. And then all a sudden
01:02:52
you and you make all this kind of
01:02:54
grunting, groaning noises. and then you
01:02:56
wake up. This can happen hundreds of
01:02:59
times a night and it can be very
01:03:01
problematic because of course it wakes
01:03:03
you up every single time that you have
01:03:06
one of these events, right? And so as an
01:03:08
example, we measure the events per hour.
01:03:10
So as an example, somebody with sleep
01:03:12
apnnea could have between five and 15
01:03:15
times per hour that they stop breathing
01:03:18
and that's mild.
01:03:19
>> So how are they going to get into the
01:03:20
deep sleep that clears out their brain?
01:03:23
>> That's the problem, right? And so apnea
01:03:25
prevents them from getting into a lot of
01:03:27
that deep sleep. And so their brain
01:03:28
doesn't clear out and then they got
01:03:29
they're they're kind of screwed. So at
01:03:32
the end of the day, the the goal here is
01:03:34
to get as many people to number one
01:03:36
identify if they have a sleep disorder
01:03:38
and then be able to try to figure out
01:03:40
what to do about it. And the percentage
01:03:42
of people in the US that have
01:03:43
undiagnosed sleep apnea is pretty big.
01:03:45
It's like somewhere between I think like
01:03:47
18 to 20%.
01:03:48
>> This is crazy. I was just looking at the
01:03:50
stats. It says according to 2026 data
01:03:52
approximately
01:03:53
936
01:03:55
million people to 1 billion adults
01:03:57
worldwide have obstructive sleep apnnea
01:03:59
which is what one in seven
01:04:01
>> yeah that's about right
01:04:02
>> making it as common as diabetes. One in
01:04:05
seven people listening have sleep
01:04:06
apnnea.
01:04:06
>> Yes.
01:04:07
>> Wow.
01:04:07
>> As popular as diabetes. Let that sink in
01:04:10
for like half a second. Everybody knows
01:04:12
what diabetes is. Almost nobody knows
01:04:14
what sleep disorders are. Specifically
01:04:16
sleep apnnea. And it says 80 to 90% of
01:04:18
those people remain undiagnosed. That is
01:04:21
correct.
01:04:22
>> So there's people listening right
01:04:23
there's actually a huge percentage of
01:04:24
people listening right now
01:04:26
>> that have sleep apnea and have no idea
01:04:27
that they have it.
01:04:28
>> Exactly. Right.
01:04:29
>> How would they know?
01:04:30
>> Do the sleep test.
01:04:31
>> This thing here.
01:04:32
>> Yeah.
01:04:32
>> And what would this show?
01:04:33
>> So this would this actually collects
01:04:35
what is your oxygen levels throughout
01:04:37
the night? What is your heart rate
01:04:38
throughout the night? How many times do
01:04:40
you actually stop breathing? And also
01:04:42
the depth of your sleep, which stages of
01:04:43
sleep you get when you fall asleep,
01:04:45
things like that. And what would this
01:04:46
So, you know, because people are going
01:04:47
to be like, "How do I know if I need to
01:04:49
do the test?"
01:04:50
>> So, great question. So, you want to
01:04:52
think about the symptoms that you might
01:04:53
have. So, do you snore? Do you wake up
01:04:56
gasping for air? Has anybody told you
01:04:58
that your snoring stops for brief
01:05:00
periods of time or that they've heard
01:05:02
you gasping for air? Do you wake up with
01:05:04
a headache in the morning? Do you find
01:05:05
your moods are up and down? All of those
01:05:08
are signs and symptoms of sleep apnnea.
01:05:11
>> And this test, are you affiliated with
01:05:12
this company at all? I am not. But um we
01:05:14
do have that test on my website. We sell
01:05:16
it to people so that way we can test
01:05:18
them.
01:05:18
>> And how much does it cost?
01:05:20
>> $189.
01:05:21
>> Okay. So it's not
01:05:22
>> it's not exorbitantly expensive. And it
01:05:25
also is covered by insurance.
01:05:27
>> And it connects to an app.
01:05:28
>> Uh-huh. Absolutely. So you'd put it
01:05:30
through your sleeve.
01:05:31
>> So I' I'd put that there and like this.
01:05:33
>> Yeah. Exactly. And that's it. You go to
01:05:35
bed, wake up, then the information ports
01:05:38
over to your phone and then tells us
01:05:41
exactly what's going on. Now, here's
01:05:42
where it gets even better. I know,
01:05:44
right?
01:05:44
>> Can you imagine me getting in bed with
01:05:45
my fiance and being like, "Come on,
01:05:46
babe. Let's
01:05:47
>> We're recording all kinds of good stuff.
01:05:49
Who knows what she might like?
01:05:50
>> Is this going to help my sex life?"
01:05:52
>> It's absolutely it will because getting
01:05:54
into bed and knowing how well you sleep
01:05:57
and knowing if you have sleep apnea or
01:05:58
not will definitely affect your sex
01:05:59
life. Also, by the way, I've saved more
01:06:01
marriages as a sleep doctor than I ever
01:06:03
would have as a marital therapist
01:06:04
dealing with snoring in the middle of
01:06:06
the night and things like that. So,
01:06:08
you'd be you'd be surprised. But what's
01:06:10
nice about this is it's one night. You
01:06:11
don't have to do it multiple nights.
01:06:13
It's super easy. Um, and again, believe
01:06:15
it or not, that's disposable. You can
01:06:16
actually throw that whole thing away
01:06:18
after it's all said and done.
01:06:19
>> And on that point, before we just go a
01:06:20
little bit further into sleep apnnea,
01:06:21
should should we be sleeping in bed with
01:06:23
our partners? And I know that's an
01:06:24
interesting thing.
01:06:25
>> Great question. Great question. The
01:06:26
strength of your relationship has
01:06:29
nothing to do with where you sleep.
01:06:32
Okay? So, lots of people are like, "I
01:06:33
got to sleep with my partner otherwise
01:06:35
my relationship's going to go to [ __ ]
01:06:36
and everything's going to go terrible
01:06:38
and we're never going to have sex and
01:06:39
we're not true." Okay. So, a lot of
01:06:42
times for people that I have, so for
01:06:43
example, I've got people who um have
01:06:46
sleep apnnea and they use a a machine to
01:06:48
help them sleep called a CPAP machine,
01:06:50
right? And um that noise for some people
01:06:53
can be disruptive and so they sleep,
01:06:54
let's say, in a different room, right?
01:06:56
So, is that is that detrimental to your
01:06:59
marriage? No, it's not. Because here's
01:07:01
what you do is you vacation on the
01:07:03
weekends in your bedroom, right? I can't
01:07:06
count the number of people who sleep
01:07:07
separately during the week and then
01:07:09
together on the weekends. And it turns
01:07:11
out that they get much better sleep
01:07:13
during the week. And then guess what?
01:07:16
Intimacy shows up much faster on the
01:07:18
weekends because they're not so tired.
01:07:20
Used to be, you know, not tonight I have
01:07:22
a headache. It was really not tonight
01:07:24
I'm exhausted. When you allow your
01:07:26
partner to get good sleep during the
01:07:27
week, there's a reasonably good shot
01:07:29
that you're going to be able to be
01:07:31
intimate over the weekend if they got
01:07:32
good sleep. So, wearing that to bed
01:07:34
might not be the sexiest thing in the
01:07:36
universe, but it's better than having
01:07:39
sleep apnnea and eventually ending up
01:07:41
dead.
01:07:43
>> Are the symptoms of sleep apnnea
01:07:44
different for men and women?
01:07:46
>> They are. Great question. So, it turns
01:07:48
out that men and women are quite
01:07:49
different, but we've historically been
01:07:51
scoring them the same. So women don't
01:07:54
have a tendency to have as much snoring
01:07:56
as men do. Um women have a tendency to
01:07:58
have more arousals where they wake up
01:08:00
constantly. Women have a tendency to
01:08:02
report headaches in the morning more so
01:08:04
than men do. So it's actually different
01:08:06
types of symptoms for women versus men
01:08:09
when it comes to sleep apnea to the
01:08:11
point where we're now considering using
01:08:13
different testing devices. So this
01:08:15
testing device um would not necessarily
01:08:17
measure EEG and in women EEG might be
01:08:20
important. That's what we're learning.
01:08:22
So, as an example, our company is
01:08:24
finding a device specifically to send to
01:08:26
women so that way we can more accurately
01:08:28
measure sleep apnea in women. Now,
01:08:30
there's a lot of questions about
01:08:32
treatment for sleep apnea. And the
01:08:34
biggest reason why nobody gets sleep
01:08:35
tested is because they're afraid that
01:08:37
they're going to end up sleeping with a
01:08:38
CPAP machine on their face at night. And
01:08:41
so, let me describe to your audience
01:08:42
what that is. Also, full disclosure, I
01:08:45
have sleep apnea. I don't look like
01:08:48
somebody who has sleep apnea. I stop
01:08:49
breathing in my sleep. I think it's 26
01:08:51
times an hour. I know, right? Kind of
01:08:54
crazy. And I wear a CPAT machine and it
01:08:57
helps me sleep every single night. Let
01:08:59
me explain what it is. So, when your
01:09:01
throat closes here, CPAT machine is a
01:09:03
little air compressor with a tube and a
01:09:05
mask that sits on your nose, pushes a
01:09:07
just thin stream of just air, and when
01:09:08
it hits that blockage, it ever so
01:09:10
slightly opens it up, shoots air
01:09:12
straight down to your lungs. Now, you
01:09:13
might be saying to yourself, "That
01:09:15
sounds barbaric. That is insane. That's
01:09:18
a haird dryer blowing up my nose all
01:09:20
night long. Here's what I can tell you
01:09:23
is when you have a severe case of sleep
01:09:25
apnea, this can be a lifesaver. This can
01:09:29
be one of the biggest, most important
01:09:31
things that you possibly do. Now, a lot
01:09:33
of people say, "Oh, I don't think I
01:09:34
could sleep with a mask on my face."
01:09:36
Well, that's not the only treatment.
01:09:38
There are other treatments called oral
01:09:39
appliances. This is like a a mouthguard
01:09:41
like you see the footballers wear, but
01:09:42
it's an upper and a lower. and the lower
01:09:44
slowly brings your jaw forward which
01:09:46
opens up your posterior airway space.
01:09:48
The same way that air pushes things
01:09:50
aside, the oral appliance structurally
01:09:53
moves your jaw slightly forward thereby
01:09:55
opening up your airway. So that works
01:09:57
well and there's no mask on your face.
01:09:59
There's a third device that you can wear
01:10:01
on your tongue that vibrates that
01:10:04
shrinks your tongue by a couple of
01:10:05
millimeters which opens up this
01:10:07
posterior airway space and allows you to
01:10:09
breathe better.
01:10:10
>> Have you tried all of them?
01:10:11
>> I have as a matter of fact. And why did
01:10:13
you choose the apnea machine?
01:10:14
>> So for me, the apnea machine worked the
01:10:16
best and made the most sense for me
01:10:18
right now. But I'll be honest with you,
01:10:20
I will probably get the uh mouthguard
01:10:22
for when I travel. There's a lot that
01:10:24
can be done out there. And by the way,
01:10:26
there's also surgeries and surgeries are
01:10:28
a little bit more permanent fix. Um, but
01:10:30
in many cases, those surgeries can be
01:10:32
quite effective. Also, by the way,
01:10:34
they're working on a pill
01:10:36
>> for sleep apnnea now. And that's just
01:10:38
apnea. We haven't even talked about
01:10:39
insomnia yet.
01:10:39
>> I was just reading about the FDA
01:10:41
approving a drug. Yeah, it's it's quite
01:10:43
remarkable. And there's actually two I
01:10:44
think there's actually three different
01:10:45
companies that are working on different
01:10:47
drugs right now for sleep apnea. And I
01:10:50
mean to be clear, when that happens, I
01:10:52
think it's pretty much game over for
01:10:54
sleep apnea, right? I mean once we can
01:10:56
get it in a pill form, which means
01:10:57
compliance increases dramatically, we
01:10:59
can help a lot of people with sleep
01:11:01
apnea, which I think would be pretty
01:11:03
amazing.
01:11:03
>> And women are heavily undiagnosed,
01:11:05
right? Because we heavily
01:11:06
>> we think of it as I mean I've heard it
01:11:08
being referred to as a sort of an old
01:11:10
man's disease.
01:11:11
>> Yeah. And oh, absolutely. And here's the
01:11:13
thing. Many women have a tendency to
01:11:14
report insomnia types of symptoms over
01:11:17
sleep apnea types of symptoms when in
01:11:19
fact they actually have under
01:11:21
undiagnosed sleep apnnea, which we can
01:11:23
catch.
01:11:23
>> We talked a little bit earlier, but um
01:11:25
from many of the conversations I've had
01:11:26
on the show about Alzheimer's,
01:11:28
>> yes,
01:11:28
>> your chance of um getting Alzheimer's, I
01:11:31
imagine, is going to increase, right?
01:11:32
Because absolutely you have sleep
01:11:34
apnnea.
01:11:34
>> Yeah. Well, because when you have sleep
01:11:36
apnnea, it keeps you out of the deeper
01:11:37
stages of sleep. the deeper stages of
01:11:39
sleep is where that lymphatic system
01:11:40
comes in and scoops out those proteins
01:11:42
and that's really probably one of those
01:11:44
big causes for it. So that's one of the
01:11:45
things that we always want people to
01:11:46
understand. But there's also something
01:11:48
else that I think is important to maybe
01:11:50
talk about which is on the other side
01:11:52
not sleep apnnea side but on the
01:11:54
insomnia side which is there's a lot of
01:11:56
people who go and they go to the
01:11:57
drugstore and they buy an
01:11:58
over-the-counter sleep aid. Right now
01:12:01
I'm not talking about supplementation
01:12:03
yet. We can get into supplements in a
01:12:04
minute if you want to, but I'm talking
01:12:05
about things like the PM medications,
01:12:08
right? You know, they so here in
01:12:10
America, we have them where there's like
01:12:11
there's like an analesic plus a PM. So
01:12:13
there's Tylenol PM, Advil PM, and what
01:12:16
it is is it's a pain reliever, but they
01:12:19
add something called dyenhydramine and
01:12:22
it makes you feel sleepy and it makes
01:12:23
you fall asleep. Dyenhydramine is
01:12:25
actually an antihistamine, right? So
01:12:27
it's used for congestion and things like
01:12:29
that. But there's now data to suggest
01:12:31
that daily use of the PM part of this,
01:12:34
not the pain relieving part, but the PM
01:12:36
part can lead almost directly to
01:12:38
Alzheimer's.
01:12:39
>> Oh, wow.
01:12:40
>> Right. So, if people can just go to bed
01:12:44
and follow a couple simple rules and go
01:12:46
to bed naturally, you'd be shocked at
01:12:47
how much better your world is going to
01:12:49
be. The Queensland Brain Institute um at
01:12:52
the University of Queensland found that
01:12:54
people with untreated apnea have a 45%
01:12:57
higher risk of developing Alzheimer's
01:12:59
disease.
01:13:00
>> Like I said,
01:13:01
>> which is crazy.
01:13:03
>> Soant here's the thing is we've got all
01:13:05
these people who are watching your show
01:13:07
right now. They need to start thinking
01:13:09
in their head like maybe I have sleep
01:13:12
apnea, maybe I don't, but maybe I should
01:13:14
take a look at what are some of the
01:13:15
symptoms and see if that's something
01:13:16
that could be going on for me. Because
01:13:18
again, testing is available. And to be
01:13:21
clear, it's not like I'm the only guy
01:13:22
out there testing people. I mean, there
01:13:24
are sleep doctors all over the world
01:13:26
that are testing people. My
01:13:27
encouragement to people is, hey, figure
01:13:30
it out. If if you can't figure it out,
01:13:31
you know, shoot us an email. We'll find
01:13:33
a sleep center for you to go to. But if
01:13:35
you think there's something going on,
01:13:37
it's definitely worth checking out
01:13:39
because, by the way, you can stay with
01:13:41
undiagnosed sleep apnnea for your entire
01:13:43
life. And it all it does is basically
01:13:45
break down everything that's going on
01:13:46
inside. And that's not what you want.
01:13:48
Like remember sleep is recovery, right?
01:13:51
This is how your body still functions.
01:13:52
Like if you want to lead a nice
01:13:54
prosperous life, you want to sleep.
01:13:57
>> Insomnia has become a bit of a word that
01:13:59
people throw around
01:14:00
>> for sure,
01:14:00
>> right? They they kind of self diagnose
01:14:02
themselves. We kind of think of it as
01:14:03
this one specific thing. I think people
01:14:05
say, "I have insomnia when they just
01:14:06
don't sleep well."
01:14:07
>> Right.
01:14:07
>> What is insomnia and what's the big myth
01:14:09
around it?
01:14:10
>> Yeah. So, number one, there's a couple
01:14:12
of different flavors of insomnia.
01:14:14
There's the I can't fall asleep. There's
01:14:15
the I can't stay asleep, which we talked
01:14:17
about quite a bit. There's the I wake up
01:14:19
too early, and then there's just the I
01:14:21
wake up from unrefreshing sleep. So, we
01:14:23
really think that there are four sort of
01:14:25
types of insomnia, right? And um when
01:14:28
people I would say some of the biggest
01:14:30
myths that a lot of people have
01:14:31
surrounding insomnia is or like the
01:14:34
biggest problem that they do is when
01:14:35
somebody has a really crappy night then
01:14:37
what they try to do is the next evening
01:14:39
go to bed early and try to catch up on
01:14:43
some of that sleep that they missed. So
01:14:45
to be clear this is a terrible idea
01:14:48
because your circadian rhythm isn't
01:14:50
ready to go to bed early. So you lie in
01:14:52
bed and you're exhausted but you can't
01:14:55
fall asleep. you're what I call wired
01:14:57
and tired, right? And so what we want
01:14:59
people to do is if you do have a bout of
01:15:02
insomnia where you have difficulty
01:15:03
falling asleep or difficulty staying
01:15:04
asleep, number one, don't overcaffeinate
01:15:07
during the daytime. So many people are
01:15:09
like, "Oh, I'm dragging. I got to get a
01:15:11
coffee," you know, and and they and they
01:15:13
caffeinate, caffeinate, caffeinate, and
01:15:14
then they caffeinate so late into the
01:15:16
day that they have shitty sleep that
01:15:17
night, and now we're in the washing
01:15:18
machine cycle going over and over and
01:15:20
over. It sounds like you might be
01:15:21
relating to this uh a little bit maybe
01:15:23
yourself. And then so we want to avoid
01:15:26
that. The other thing we want to avoid
01:15:28
is over stimulation at night, right? So
01:15:31
a lot of pimps people get that nervous
01:15:32
energy and so they're just doing doing.
01:15:34
Again, you need runway to land the
01:15:36
plane. So give yourself some kind of
01:15:38
that space. Um and then just make sure
01:15:40
that you've got some level of
01:15:41
regularity. I would argue for my
01:15:44
insomnia patients, but quite honestly
01:15:46
for anybody who's watching this, the
01:15:48
number one sleep tip that I can give
01:15:51
people is to wake up at the same time
01:15:53
seven days a week. Not go to bed. I
01:15:56
don't actually care when you go to bed
01:15:57
that much. I know there's a lot of sleep
01:15:58
specialists out there who are like, you
01:16:00
got to go to bed at the same time and
01:16:01
wake up at the same time. I'm not of
01:16:03
that ilk. I don't really care that much
01:16:04
about the going to bed time. I really
01:16:06
only care about the wake up time. Let me
01:16:08
explain why. When you wake up in the
01:16:10
morning, sunlight hits your eye and you
01:16:11
have a special cell in your eye called
01:16:12
the melanopsin cell which sends a signal
01:16:14
to your brain to turn off the melatonin
01:16:16
faucet in your head. But it sets a timer
01:16:19
for exactly 14 hours later. It's called
01:16:21
the melatonin phase response curve. So
01:16:23
if you're waking up at 6, melatonin
01:16:25
turns off until about 8:00 p.m. Then it
01:16:27
takes about a couple hours for it to get
01:16:29
up and in. So then you start to get
01:16:30
sleep around 9:30 and you go to bed. But
01:16:32
if you did that and now it's Saturday
01:16:35
and you sleep in until 8, melatonin
01:16:37
doesn't kick off until 10:00 Saturday
01:16:40
night. So what I'm saying is the time
01:16:42
that you wake up directly determines
01:16:45
when your internal melatonin kicks into
01:16:48
gear. So if everybody woke up at the
01:16:50
exact same time every single day, seven
01:16:53
days a week, automatically you would get
01:16:56
tired at the right time and you would
01:16:57
start going to sleep.
01:16:58
>> And is there two different types of
01:17:00
insomnia? Sometimes I hear primary,
01:17:02
secondary insomnia. I think you have
01:17:03
that on your YouTube channel.
01:17:04
>> So when you look at primary insomnia
01:17:06
versus secondary insomnia, the way we
01:17:07
categorize that, secondary insomnia is
01:17:10
usually due to something else that's
01:17:12
going on in your life. So
01:17:13
>> psychology,
01:17:14
>> so maybe caffeine abuse.
01:17:16
>> Okay?
01:17:16
>> Right? Um maybe something along those
01:17:18
lines. Whereas primary insomnia is
01:17:20
there's nothing else. You the only thing
01:17:22
you've got going on is sleep disorder.
01:17:24
Another example of of something where
01:17:26
insomnia might be secondary would be
01:17:27
pain.
01:17:28
>> Right? So if you have a pain syndrome,
01:17:29
if you have fibromyalgia or low back
01:17:31
pain, that could prevent you from
01:17:32
sleeping. That would be secondary
01:17:34
insomnia, secondary to pain.
01:17:36
>> And I hear that the most common
01:17:37
treatment for insomnia is CBT therapy.
01:17:40
>> So yes and no.
01:17:42
>> Okay.
01:17:42
>> So I would say that the most common
01:17:44
therapy for insomnia is alcohol.
01:17:47
>> More people drink themselves to sleep
01:17:50
>> than any other single thing out there.
01:17:52
Um and then you start to get into the
01:17:53
pharmacy of it all. And there's a lot of
01:17:55
pharmaceutical drugs out there that
01:17:57
people utilize for for sleep. And I want
01:17:59
to make a point if I can is there's
01:18:02
nothing wrong with needing a pill to
01:18:05
sleep. Okay? I want to be very clear
01:18:07
about this. There are people out there
01:18:09
who need pills, right? All kinds of
01:18:12
different ones. Thank you. There's a
01:18:13
whole host of reasons why you and your
01:18:15
doctor may have come to the conclusion
01:18:17
that a sleeping tablet is good for you.
01:18:20
The problem comes when those sleeping
01:18:22
tablets are overprescribed. So insomnia
01:18:26
is in the in the sleep world, we call it
01:18:28
a door handle diagnosis because when the
01:18:30
doctor has their hand on the door and
01:18:31
they're just about to leave, that's when
01:18:33
the patient says, "Oh, and by the way,
01:18:34
I'm not sleeping."
01:18:36
>> And then the doctor usually pulls out
01:18:37
the prescription pad and says, you know,
01:18:39
ambient or trazadone or something like
01:18:41
that, writes it up, says, "Here, come
01:18:42
back in 30 days." Well, you haven't
01:18:44
really done anything for this person.
01:18:45
You've handed them a pill. And by the
01:18:47
way, now they're probably either
01:18:49
psychologically or physiologically
01:18:51
addicted to said pill right now. Once
01:18:53
again, if you've got a major mental
01:18:55
health issue, I don't think I care. I
01:18:57
think it's okay for you to have your
01:18:58
AMVN and be fine. And
01:18:59
>> and a lot of people that do have
01:19:00
insomnia have depression.
01:19:02
>> Oh, I think it's one of the biggest
01:19:04
things that we see. But I would argue
01:19:05
anxiety might be a little bit more than
01:19:07
depression. But yes, anxiety and
01:19:08
depression, I would argue, make up 75%
01:19:11
of insomnia at any given time. Right? I
01:19:14
work with people and I do something
01:19:15
called cognitive behavioral therapy for
01:19:16
insomnia which you correctly identified
01:19:18
as CBTI, right? And so I work with
01:19:21
patients all the time. Um, and that's
01:19:23
exactly what we do is we reschedule
01:19:25
them. So that's the behavioral part. And
01:19:27
then the cognitive part is we talk to
01:19:29
them about how do you think about sleep?
01:19:31
Because a lot of people think about
01:19:32
sleep in disastrous ways. They're like,
01:19:33
if I don't get eight hours, my old day
01:19:35
is screwed and everything's going to
01:19:36
happen. It rarely happens that way. Like
01:19:39
it's called catastrophizing. You just
01:19:40
make it worse and worse and worse. And
01:19:42
so we look at those cognitive
01:19:43
distortions and we help fix them in
01:19:45
therapy by really kind of what I call
01:19:47
doing the math. And so I say, "Well,
01:19:49
have you ever had four hours of sleep?"
01:19:51
"Yes." "Did you do something terrible
01:19:53
the next day?" "No." "So where's your
01:19:55
evidence?" Right? And you start to get
01:19:57
people to challenge themselves and all
01:19:59
of a sudden they kind of they can kind
01:20:00
of get there. There's also another area
01:20:02
of that a lot of people go to somewhere
01:20:04
in between the pills and therapy, and
01:20:07
that's supplementation. So there's a lot
01:20:10
of people out there who like to use
01:20:11
supplements and try to understand how to
01:20:14
fix quote their insomnia with
01:20:16
supplementation. So if we can let's talk
01:20:18
a little bit about supplements and sort
01:20:20
of what's good and what's bad.
01:20:21
>> What is the difference between a
01:20:23
supplement and a pill or is it you
01:20:25
talking about the same thing here? So
01:20:27
under the context of this conversation,
01:20:29
a supplement is a non FDA regulated
01:20:33
thing that you can purchase at any
01:20:35
drugstore and a pill is a by
01:20:38
prescription only from a doctor.
01:20:40
>> Okay,
01:20:41
>> that's how we're going to make the
01:20:42
distinction for this particular
01:20:43
conversation.
01:20:44
>> Okay, so those pills that are in front
01:20:45
of you there,
01:20:46
>> so right in front of me, these are most
01:20:48
these are actually all supplements. So
01:20:50
these are different. So these are not
01:20:52
pharmaceuticals. These are different
01:20:53
things. So, we've got
01:20:54
>> I mean, in different countries, it's
01:20:55
different, right?
01:20:56
>> Great point. So, let's talk about
01:20:57
melatonin since that's kind of the
01:20:59
biggie that a lot of people like to know
01:21:00
about. So, number one, melatonin is by
01:21:03
prescription only almost everywhere
01:21:05
other than the United States,
01:21:06
>> right? So, in England, in Australia, in
01:21:09
Europe, you can't just walk into the
01:21:11
drugstore and buy melatonin. And there's
01:21:13
a reason. A lot of people don't realize
01:21:15
it, but melatonin is a hormone. There's
01:21:17
a reason you can't go to the CVS and get
01:21:19
testosterone and estrogen, right?
01:21:21
Because hormones affect the entire
01:21:23
system. They affect all three almost 300
01:21:25
different things in your body. So what
01:21:27
you don't want to do is have somebody
01:21:28
just willy-nilly grabbing a hormone and
01:21:30
starting to pop it without somebody
01:21:32
understanding what's going on with them.
01:21:34
More importantly, melatonin in
01:21:36
particular, and the point I wanted to
01:21:38
make earlier about depression, melatonin
01:21:41
interacts with all SSRI medication. An
01:21:46
SSRI is a serotonin specific reuptake
01:21:49
inhibitor, an anti-depressant. So things
01:21:52
like Prozac, Zoloft, um, Selelexa, all
01:21:56
of those are medications that will be
01:21:59
affected by melatonin ingestion and
01:22:01
nobody knows that it is. In addition,
01:22:04
melatonin affects birth control. Yes,
01:22:07
you heard it here, birth control. It
01:22:09
affects blood pressure medication and it
01:22:11
affects diabetes medication. So, one of
01:22:14
the problems is that people go into the
01:22:16
local drugstore and they're like, "Oh,
01:22:17
I'm going to grab some melatonin and I'm
01:22:19
going to make my sleep better because
01:22:20
I'm sleeping poorly." So, first of all,
01:22:22
that's not what melatonin does.
01:22:24
Melatonin is a sleep regulator, not a
01:22:26
sleep initiator. Melatonin doesn't
01:22:29
affect sleep drive. Melatonin affects
01:22:31
sleep rhythm. So, remember in the
01:22:32
beginning of our conversation, we're
01:22:33
talking about the two systems. Melatonin
01:22:35
only affects your brain telling it when
01:22:38
it's time to go to bed. It does not make
01:22:40
you sleepy. That's a denisonin. We
01:22:42
already talked about adenosin and
01:22:43
caffeine and how similar their molecular
01:22:45
structures are. So when you look at
01:22:47
something like melatonin, you need to
01:22:48
really be thoughtful about using it.
01:22:51
Number two, melatonin is not to be used
01:22:54
in children. Okay? So a lot of people
01:22:56
are like, "Michael, I've got
01:22:58
pediatricians all over the country
01:23:00
telling my telling me to give my
01:23:01
children melatonin." I'm going to say it
01:23:03
right here in front of everybody. That
01:23:05
is the dumbest idea I have heard in a
01:23:07
long time because you just taught your
01:23:10
child that they need a pill to sleep.
01:23:13
Normally, no child needs pills to sleep.
01:23:16
And by the way, most children make
01:23:18
almost four times the amount of
01:23:19
melatonin that their brain even needs.
01:23:21
So, giving them extra melatonin doesn't
01:23:24
do you any good. There is, however, one
01:23:26
group of children where melatonin does
01:23:27
work well, and that's in kids on the
01:23:29
autism spectrum. um we don't know
01:23:31
exactly why but um or at least I don't
01:23:34
but there is data to suggest that at
01:23:36
five six seven milligrams that that can
01:23:39
be very helpful for them. Dosage also is
01:23:41
a problem like if you go to the
01:23:43
drugstore you can you almost can't find
01:23:45
it in the appropriate dose. The
01:23:46
appropriate dose is anywhere from about
01:23:48
half a milligram to one and a half
01:23:50
milligrams. Maybe top out at three but
01:23:52
that's about as high as you want to go.
01:23:54
But when you go to CVS you find a
01:23:56
gummies in 10 and 20 milligrams. And
01:23:58
people tell me all the time, "Oh, I
01:23:59
can't take melatonin. It gives me crazy
01:24:01
dreams." Number one side effect of
01:24:03
overdosing on melatonin is crazy dreams.
01:24:05
>> On this point of going to a supermarket
01:24:07
and picking some melatonin off the
01:24:09
shelf,
01:24:11
>> FDA approval and the lack of FDA
01:24:14
approval in melatonin means that there's
01:24:16
less clarity on what's actually in
01:24:18
there. Right.
01:24:19
>> That's exactly right. I was reading
01:24:20
about a study in 2024
01:24:23
um where they looked at different
01:24:24
melatonins that were found on the shelf
01:24:26
>> and they found very different things
01:24:28
inside the bottle.
01:24:29
>> Very very different things. They looked
01:24:31
at an analysis of melatonin gummies
01:24:33
marketed for children and found that the
01:24:35
actual amount of melatonin ranged from
01:24:37
0%
01:24:38
>> right
01:24:38
>> to 667%
01:24:41
of what was listed on the label.
01:24:42
>> Yep. See it all the time. And in the
01:24:44
same study, melatonin gummies, some
01:24:46
melatonin gummies contained absolutely
01:24:48
no melatonin, while others contained
01:24:50
hazardous contaminants like CBD that
01:24:53
were not disclosed on the label.
01:24:54
>> Yep.
01:24:55
>> Because melatonin is sold as a
01:24:56
supplement in the US and not a drug, the
01:24:58
FDA does not test it for safety or
01:25:00
accuracy before it hits the shelf.
01:25:01
>> You are 100% correct. And that's a huge
01:25:04
problem. Just think about that for a
01:25:05
second. I mean, the market for melatonin
01:25:07
is tremendous. It's huge in the
01:25:10
supplement world. Yet, there's no
01:25:12
regulation. whatsoever. Nobody knows
01:25:14
about these interaction effects which
01:25:16
are big, big, big. And by the way, most
01:25:19
people are using it wrong. There's
01:25:20
really only three maybe four different
01:25:22
instances when melatonin would be
01:25:25
useful. I would use melatonin for jet
01:25:27
lag, and we should talk about jet lag.
01:25:29
>> Um I I would use uh melatonin for shift
01:25:31
workers, right? So for people who work,
01:25:34
you know, night shift who have to sleep
01:25:35
during the daytime, they would be
01:25:37
excellent people to use melatonin.
01:25:39
people with a melatonin deficiency. A
01:25:41
lot of people don't think about that,
01:25:42
but right around age 50 is when if
01:25:44
you're going to have a melatonin
01:25:45
deficiency, we start to see that
01:25:47
happening for people is it their the
01:25:48
ability to produce melatonin begins to
01:25:50
decline. So, I think those three
01:25:52
situations absolutely would be on board
01:25:54
for melatonin. Believe it or not,
01:25:56
there's some data to show that in ADD
01:25:57
and ADHD there's uh some use for
01:26:00
melatonin and then also for a very
01:26:02
specific sleeping disorder called REM
01:26:03
behavior disorder.
01:26:04
>> We're going melatonin crazy as a
01:26:06
society, aren't we?
01:26:07
>> Absolutely. We don't need it. It's
01:26:09
completely unnecessary.
01:26:11
>> I was looking at the data. In 1999, 0.4%
01:26:15
of Americans said they used melatonin.
01:26:17
Today, it's almost 30%. So, 70 million
01:26:20
Americans up, dude. That is problematic.
01:26:24
And again, they have no idea what it's
01:26:26
doing to them, right? And they're giving
01:26:28
it to their kids. Like, I can't think of
01:26:30
anything worse for a young female
01:26:31
developing body than to add a
01:26:32
contraceptive when it's not necessary.
01:26:35
Like, it just doesn't make sense to me.
01:26:36
The rise in children overdosing on sleep
01:26:38
gummies is the fastest growing trend in
01:26:40
poison control data.
01:26:42
>> Yeah, I think it's like almost 600%
01:26:45
increase or something crazy like that
01:26:47
for kids who have uh gotten uh who've
01:26:50
overdosed on melatonin like within there
01:26:51
was a study that came out maybe a year
01:26:53
ago, year and a half ago showed like
01:26:55
almost 600% of uh increase in uh
01:26:58
overdoses for kids. Like that's pretty
01:27:00
messed up when you start to think about
01:27:02
it. And here's the thing, kids know how
01:27:03
to sleep,
01:27:04
>> right? You just got to stop. You just
01:27:06
got to let them sleep, right? You got to
01:27:08
give them some parameters. Here's when
01:27:09
you go to bed. Here's when you wake up.
01:27:11
Don't get out of bed. You know, don't
01:27:12
come in and ask for 12 glasses of water.
01:27:14
You know, all the all the stuff that
01:27:15
goes on there. I mean, it this isn't
01:27:18
hard.
01:27:18
>> So, when and how So, I used melatonin
01:27:21
once in my life.
01:27:21
>> Okay.
01:27:22
>> And I got to be honest, it [ __ ]
01:27:23
worked.
01:27:24
>> Yeah. Oh, if you use it right, it works,
01:27:26
bro.
01:27:27
>> And it was it was actually about a week
01:27:29
ago because I'd been struggling with
01:27:31
lots of jet lag. I'd flown from the UK
01:27:33
to the LA to UK to LA to Cape Town to
01:27:35
Middle East to wherever and I was
01:27:38
getting to bed every night at like 4:00
01:27:39
or 5 a.m. and still waking up at, you
01:27:41
know, having to wake up at about 10:00.
01:27:43
>> So, I thought, I need to correct this.
01:27:45
It's been going for two weeks and I need
01:27:46
to correct this.
01:27:47
>> Absolutely.
01:27:48
>> So, I thought, [ __ ] it, I'm going to
01:27:49
cave. I g I took the melatonin and
01:27:52
corrected it.
01:27:53
>> Yes, it does. So, let's talk about jet
01:27:54
lag. So, it's a bit of a story, but I
01:27:58
got involved with a company that um has
01:28:01
got an app, which is very interesting.
01:28:03
Okay. Um I don't have any like I'm not
01:28:05
invested in the company, just to be
01:28:06
clear, but it's one of my close friends
01:28:08
who developed this. So, I'm kind of a
01:28:10
space nerd.
01:28:11
>> It's not Time Shifter.
01:28:12
>> It is Time Shifter.
01:28:13
>> Oh, really?
01:28:15
>> It is.
01:28:15
>> I also like an affiliation with Time
01:28:17
Shifter
01:28:17
>> because I used to Yeah, I will get you
01:28:20
that. So, here's what's fascinating is
01:28:22
the way the whole time shifter started
01:28:24
was um so aren't you kind of a space
01:28:26
guy? Like, aren't you
01:28:27
>> I'm an investor in SpaceX and
01:28:29
>> Okay. So, I'm a space nerd myself,
01:28:31
right? So, you know, the the ISS is
01:28:34
moving around at 17,500 miles an hour
01:28:36
around the Earth. It's cooking.
01:28:37
>> ISS meaning the International Space
01:28:39
Station. It's whipping around, right?
01:28:41
>> Can you imagine how many sunrises and
01:28:44
sunsets they get in a given day?
01:28:45
>> Oh, no. How many?
01:28:46
>> Every two hours. So, they basically get
01:28:49
12.
01:28:49
>> Wow. Think about how messed up their
01:28:51
circadian rhythms would be from seeing
01:28:53
the sunrise and seeing it go and see it
01:28:54
gets really messed up, right? And by the
01:28:56
way, you don't want to make big mistakes
01:28:58
in the space station. Like you don't
01:28:59
leave the air lock open, you know, or
01:29:01
[ __ ] like that. Like that's when things
01:29:02
get really really bad. So they called
01:29:04
down to NASA and they were like, "Hey,
01:29:05
we got a problem up here. Everybody
01:29:07
wants to use the lab at the same time
01:29:09
like people seeing the sun. Like what's
01:29:10
going on?" So they called a buddy of
01:29:12
mine named Steven Lachley over at
01:29:13
Harvard. Stephen is arguably the one of
01:29:16
the best circadian researchers in the
01:29:17
world. um super smart dude and he was
01:29:19
like, "Well, let's send up a lighting
01:29:21
kit and let's create ships on the space
01:29:24
station."
01:29:25
>> Mhm.
01:29:25
>> Right. So that's exactly what they did.
01:29:27
So they sent up a lighting kit. I think
01:29:28
it was on the Colombia um shuttle before
01:29:30
it got decommissioned. And they set up
01:29:32
lighting and then they set up timing for
01:29:34
lighting. And so there was a morning
01:29:35
shift, a midshift, and a night shift for
01:29:38
the astronauts. Once they got the
01:29:40
algorithm working, they brought it down
01:29:41
terrestrially and they put it into the
01:29:43
Mercedes-Benz uh Formula 1 race car
01:29:45
team. So they gave it to Lewis Hamilton.
01:29:46
>> Mhm.
01:29:47
>> Right. Because when you think about it,
01:29:48
think about what he has to do, right?
01:29:50
He's on or off the podium on hundreds of
01:29:52
a second, right? And he's in a different
01:29:54
country every 3 weeks,
01:29:55
>> right? So this guy's got jet lag like
01:29:57
you wouldn't believe. And so once we
01:29:58
were able to get it going there, then we
01:30:00
created the time shifter app. And so
01:30:02
it's an app you can get it on your
01:30:03
phone. And what you do is you put in
01:30:04
your flight number and it automatically
01:30:06
pulls up the flight and knows where you
01:30:08
are. This is why I think that jet lag is
01:30:11
a math problem. Let me explain. We
01:30:13
learned about 20 years ago that when you
01:30:15
take a certain frequency and intensity
01:30:16
of light and you shine it in somebody's
01:30:18
eyes, you can move their circadian
01:30:20
rhythm by about eight hours if you want
01:30:22
to.
01:30:22
>> That circadian rhythm again being
01:30:24
>> being that internal biological clock,
01:30:26
the time when your body wants to go to
01:30:27
bed and wants to wake up. We can
01:30:29
actually move that by about 8 hours with
01:30:32
about 10,000 lux, which is the
01:30:34
brightness level of blue light,
01:30:36
particular frequency of light. Okay? So
01:30:38
when you hit that, if you start in LA
01:30:41
and you're going to Manchester, right,
01:30:44
and there's a big time difference and
01:30:46
you know what time it is in LA and you
01:30:48
know what time it is in Manchester, it's
01:30:50
a math problem of when do you get the
01:30:53
light.
01:30:54
>> So that's what time shifter is, is it
01:30:56
determines when do you need that light
01:30:58
and then on the times when you don't
01:31:00
need light, it has you use caffeine,
01:31:02
right? Or to keep you awake or if it's
01:31:04
time to sleep, then you use a little bit
01:31:06
of melatonin. That's when melatonin
01:31:08
becomes so valuable.
01:31:09
>> It also tells you when to eat.
01:31:11
>> It does. It tells you all of these
01:31:12
different things. And it's kind of nice
01:31:13
because it kind of shows up on your
01:31:14
phone. It's like, "Hey, do this then. Do
01:31:16
this then." And it works really, really
01:31:17
well. But yeah, Time Shifter is one of
01:31:20
my favorites. Uh I've been uh using it
01:31:22
literally for 15 years.
01:31:24
>> Wow.
01:31:26
>> And it solves jet lag, bro. Like we're
01:31:28
going to fix that for you. No, no
01:31:30
question.
01:31:30
>> How often should someone be having
01:31:32
melatonin? Is there like too often?
01:31:34
Because some people literally have it
01:31:36
every day. Yeah, I would argue it's a
01:31:37
bad idea. So, if you have a melatonin
01:31:40
deficiency, sure, have it every day.
01:31:42
But, um, or if you're a shift worker,
01:31:44
probably. But I I use it only for jet
01:31:46
lag myself. Otherwise, I'm not using it
01:31:49
on the regular.
01:31:50
>> And what's the risk there of having it
01:31:51
every day? Is it?
01:31:52
>> Uh, it's a good question. So, when you
01:31:54
start to look at melatonin overdose and
01:31:56
you start to look at melatonin on board
01:31:58
for long periods of time, there's been
01:32:00
some conflict in the in the research.
01:32:02
Um, there's a group of people that say
01:32:04
if you stay on melatonin for extended
01:32:05
periods of time, your body stops
01:32:07
producing it. There's another group of
01:32:09
people that have looked at research and
01:32:10
have said actually that's not the case.
01:32:13
So, right now we have we have studies
01:32:15
that lead out to about a year or so on
01:32:18
melatonin. And when you stop their
01:32:20
melatonin production after they've been
01:32:21
taking it for a year, their body seems
01:32:23
to start back up no problem. It's
01:32:25
different than testosterone, right? So
01:32:27
with testosterone, we know that when men
01:32:28
start taking testosterone, their body
01:32:30
actually stops producing it. With
01:32:32
melatonin, that does not appear to be
01:32:33
the case, but we don't have studies that
01:32:36
go out past, you know, that yearong. And
01:32:38
so if somebody's been taking melatonin
01:32:40
every day for 5 10 years, you know, you
01:32:43
you kind of start to wonder uh what's
01:32:45
going to happen. Also, don't forget that
01:32:46
that melatonin is different than the
01:32:48
melatonin that's actually produced in
01:32:49
your head. I think it was Andrew
01:32:51
Huberman who I was speaking to a couple
01:32:53
of weeks ago that was was saying about
01:32:55
not giving kids an overdose of
01:32:57
melatonin. And I think afterwards I I
01:32:59
was doing some research on it and I read
01:33:00
something that said it has an impact on
01:33:03
puberty potentially.
01:33:05
>> So in high dosages melatonin is a
01:33:08
contraceptive.
01:33:09
>> So that would pause puberty.
01:33:10
>> Exactly. Or change it
01:33:13
>> and ways we may or may not know. So, I
01:33:16
agree with Andrew on that point that
01:33:18
again, melatonin is not something that
01:33:20
kids need unless you've got kids on the
01:33:22
spectrum, which is again where I find it
01:33:24
to be helpful and I've treated kids with
01:33:25
that before, but generally speaking, I
01:33:28
don't put melatonin on anybody under the
01:33:29
age of 18.
01:33:30
>> Am I more likely to have nightmares if
01:33:32
I'm having lots of melatonin?
01:33:34
>> If you're overdosing, you are. So, the
01:33:36
number one side effect of a high dose of
01:33:39
melatonin is super vivid dreams and then
01:33:41
eventually nightmares.
01:33:42
>> Why? I'm not really sure. If I was
01:33:45
garnering a guess, then what I would say
01:33:47
is that part of the reason why that you
01:33:50
have crazy vivid dreams from melatonin
01:33:53
is because it probably does put you into
01:33:55
REM sleep a little bit quicker than you
01:33:57
normally would and might keep you there
01:33:58
a little bit longer. I don't have any
01:34:00
data to support that. So, I want to be
01:34:02
clear. Um, this is more of a hypothesis
01:34:03
on my end, but that might make intuitive
01:34:06
sense to me.
01:34:07
>> Just on a quick search, um, Sure. You're
01:34:09
right. It says it keep keeps you in REM
01:34:11
sleep a little bit longer and more
01:34:12
intensely.
01:34:13
>> There you go.
01:34:14
>> This leads to vivid highly vivid dreams
01:34:15
or night terrors which paradoxically
01:34:17
makes you wake up feeling more
01:34:18
exhausted.
01:34:19
>> Right. I can't count the number of
01:34:21
people who tell me
01:34:22
>> I need to go back to sleep because I'm
01:34:23
so exhausted from my dreams.
01:34:25
>> Oh wow.
01:34:26
>> Right.
01:34:27
>> So let's finish off on these supplements
01:34:28
then.
01:34:28
>> Yeah. Absolutely. So we talked a little
01:34:30
bit about melatonin which like I said
01:34:32
select usage. Um a couple of other ones
01:34:34
that we've got here um one of them is
01:34:36
Valyan. Right. So when we talk Valyan is
01:34:39
probably the most studied it's a root um
01:34:42
it's called the Valyrian root but to be
01:34:44
clear it's an anti-anxiety medication
01:34:46
right so what it is is it's it helps
01:34:49
lower your level of anxiety um and that
01:34:52
is the reason why it has a tendency to
01:34:53
work interestingly when you look at the
01:34:55
data it works better when combined with
01:34:57
hops like what you'd find in beer so a
01:34:59
lot of times when you're looking for a
01:35:01
preparation you should look for Valyan
01:35:03
plus hops as the preparation also we
01:35:06
should talk for a talking about
01:35:08
supplements. A lot of people don't
01:35:09
understand this, but a lot of people
01:35:11
will put a whole bunch of different
01:35:13
supplements together and put it into a
01:35:14
capsule. I don't think that's the best
01:35:16
idea. I think you should have single
01:35:18
ingredient supplementation.
01:35:20
>> Why?
01:35:20
>> Well, number one, you get the correct
01:35:22
dose so you know it's actually working
01:35:23
for you. There's a lot of companies out
01:35:25
there that are uh that make a powder or
01:35:28
something and they put a bunch of stuff
01:35:30
in it and they put just enough in there
01:35:31
to be able to say it on the ingredient
01:35:33
profile, but not enough for it to
01:35:34
actually do any good for the patient.
01:35:36
So, I like using single ingredient pro
01:35:38
uh supplement profiles because I know
01:35:40
exactly how much of each thing that I'm
01:35:42
going to get in there and I can make
01:35:43
sure that it's the correct dosage for
01:35:45
the what the person needs. So, I prefer
01:35:47
single ingredient supplementation.
01:35:49
>> Okay. So, val Valyan.
01:35:52
>> Yep. Valyan root.
01:35:54
>> Not going to mess up my hormones?
01:35:55
>> Nope. It's not going to mess up your
01:35:56
hormones.
01:35:57
>> Going to help me with overthinking?
01:36:00
>> Probably not. What it'll probably do is
01:36:01
slow your thinking down a little bit
01:36:03
depending upon how much of it you take.
01:36:05
Um, I think if you were looking for a if
01:36:07
you're looking for something that's
01:36:08
going to slow down your thinking, then I
01:36:10
would say we don't have the the thing
01:36:12
here, but it's called GABA, GABA. Um,
01:36:15
gamma amunobbuteric acid. So, this is a
01:36:18
substance that your body makes. It's
01:36:19
kind of the breaks of the brain, and you
01:36:21
can buy it um as a supplement. I've had
01:36:24
several people use that, and that seems
01:36:26
to help calm people down in the evening
01:36:28
times.
01:36:28
>> What about ashwanaganda or whatever it's
01:36:29
called?
01:36:30
>> Ashwagandha.
01:36:30
>> Ashwagandha.
01:36:31
>> Exactly. I just kind of like saying it.
01:36:33
So, here's my theory on supplementation
01:36:35
is the first thing I tell people to do
01:36:37
is go do blood work. Okay? What
01:36:39
deficiencies do you have? Fix your
01:36:42
deficiencies first before we start going
01:36:45
to the valyians and the melatonins of it
01:36:47
all. If you're deficient in vitamin D,
01:36:50
magnesium, iron, fix those three things
01:36:54
first. Dude, I can't tell you. I pro 15%
01:36:56
of the people that show up at my
01:36:58
doorstep we do blood work on and all I
01:37:00
do is fix their deficiencies and their
01:37:02
sleep magically gets better.
01:37:03
>> What are some of the surprising things
01:37:04
though that you discover like blood
01:37:05
sugar like diabetes that impacts sleep?
01:37:07
No,
01:37:07
>> it absolutely does. I also think that a
01:37:10
lot of people who have uncontrolled
01:37:11
diabetes, it wakes them up in the middle
01:37:13
of the night um because their blood
01:37:14
sugar gets so low and then they're
01:37:16
hungry in the middle of the night. Then
01:37:17
they up eating in the middle of the
01:37:18
night then they have a sleep eating
01:37:19
syndrome which is kind of a pain.
01:37:21
>> There's this one here that I've never
01:37:22
heard of before. What's this uh it's
01:37:24
called tryptophan. So uh elptophan in in
01:37:27
particular. So tryptophan is the
01:37:29
substance that we find in turkey that
01:37:32
has a tendency to make people sleepy.
01:37:34
However, when you really look at the
01:37:36
data, you'd have to eat a 46 pound
01:37:38
turkey in order to get enough tryptophan
01:37:41
to make you sleepy. Even in my best days
01:37:43
in college, dude, I couldn't eat a 46
01:37:45
pound turkey. Okay? Same holds true with
01:37:47
milk. Um, tryptophan is the thing in
01:37:49
warm milk that supposedly makes people
01:37:51
uh, sleepy, but once again, you'd have
01:37:52
to drink almost a half a gallon of warm
01:37:55
milk, which is kind of disgusting um, in
01:37:57
order to do it. Tryptophan can be
01:37:58
helpful for people if you have a
01:38:00
tryptophan deficiency, but it's
01:38:01
definitely something that lowers a
01:38:03
little bit of anxiety and can make you
01:38:04
feel a little bit sleepy, but it is a
01:38:06
naturally occurring amino acid in your
01:38:08
system.
01:38:08
>> Calcium.
01:38:09
>> So, calcium turns out is interesting
01:38:12
because when you mix calcium with
01:38:13
magnesium, it's easier to absorb. So for
01:38:16
some people mag we what we've discovered
01:38:18
is if you have a magnesium deficiency
01:38:20
and you fix the magnesium deficiency in
01:38:23
many cases it can actually help with
01:38:25
overall sleep and calcium is one of the
01:38:27
things that can be added to it that
01:38:29
helps with absorption. Now unfortunately
01:38:32
the big problem is that there are 13
01:38:35
different kinds of magnesium out there
01:38:37
and so people don't know what's been
01:38:39
studied and what hasn't. So, I'm here to
01:38:41
let you know there's only a couple of
01:38:43
brands out there that have actually been
01:38:45
studied for magnesium. The ones I like
01:38:48
is there's one called magnesium 308,
01:38:51
which is made by a company called Magen.
01:38:54
Um, they actually have a published
01:38:55
research study in the journals. That's
01:38:57
why I mentioned their brand name. I have
01:38:58
no association with them. There's also
01:39:00
another company called Upgraded
01:39:02
Formulas. They make a magnesium. And
01:39:05
kind of funny story is the guy who runs
01:39:07
mag uh upgraded formulas told me he says
01:39:09
my magnesium is the best in the world. I
01:39:11
can make anybody fall asleep. And I
01:39:13
said, "Hey, you want to put your money
01:39:14
where your mouth is? Let's do a clinical
01:39:15
trial." He handed me a check for 75
01:39:17
grand. I went and did a clinical trial
01:39:19
and he was right. His magnesium really
01:39:22
made people sleep better.
01:39:23
>> What is magnesium doing?
01:39:25
>> So, we're not 100% sure. In the
01:39:27
deficient people, it's it's obviously
01:39:29
clearing up the deficiency of magnesium.
01:39:32
And then magnesium is used in about I
01:39:34
think almost 300 different functions in
01:39:36
the body. So it probably lets the body
01:39:38
work more efficiently and probably that
01:39:41
helps to overall sleep. But I'm not
01:39:43
convinced that we have the whole
01:39:45
mechanism of action worked out. I will
01:39:47
tell you that when people take magnesium
01:39:48
they tell me that they introspectively
01:39:51
feel calmer and we definitely know that
01:39:53
it can definitely help uh cause a
01:39:54
relaxation response in the musculature.
01:39:56
So I think that might have something to
01:39:57
do with that.
01:39:58
>> Why did you bring a banana and a knife
01:39:59
and a teapot? Ah, this is my favorite
01:40:01
way to get magnesium.
01:40:03
>> A lot of people want to know, "How
01:40:05
should I take my supplements? I'm tired
01:40:07
of taking a fistful of pills every
01:40:08
morning, Michael. There's these powders.
01:40:10
Like, what what's the best way?" The
01:40:12
best way So, number one, supplementation
01:40:15
is when you're not getting all of the
01:40:16
things, the vitamins and minerals that
01:40:18
you need from your food. So, the best
01:40:20
place to get it from is food. Generally
01:40:22
speaking, turns out magnesium is one of
01:40:24
the best ones, but it's problematic
01:40:26
because we have to eat our magnesium.
01:40:28
Our body doesn't actually produce it.
01:40:30
themselves. And by the way, you could
01:40:31
eat a bushel of kale and still not get
01:40:33
enough magnesium because here in the
01:40:35
United States, the soil has been
01:40:37
overtilled, which means the magnesium
01:40:39
isn't in the soil. So, it's not coming
01:40:40
up through the root stocks and allowing
01:40:42
people to have it. So, a lot of people
01:40:44
require magnesium supplementation.
01:40:46
Believe it or not, between magnesium and
01:40:48
vitamin D, I'd say we've probably
01:40:49
covered most of America in terms of
01:40:51
having a deficiency. Bananas are loaded
01:40:54
with magnesium, but it turns out it's
01:40:56
not the fruit, it's the peel.
01:40:58
>> Oh. itself. So, no, I'm not going to
01:41:00
make you eat the peel. Don't worry. So,
01:41:03
I developed a recipe that I call banana
01:41:05
tea. All this is is a regular old
01:41:07
banana. So, what I what you do is you
01:41:09
cut off the stem, right? And cut it in
01:41:11
half and then you drop it in to some
01:41:13
boiling water. Okay? So, we've already
01:41:15
done this, right? And you can see the
01:41:17
banana has turned brown, right? It's
01:41:20
been soaking in the boiling water. So,
01:41:22
it's not really tea. It's just basically
01:41:23
hot banana water. But with the banana
01:41:27
from the skin, you also get these things
01:41:28
called phytostereroids that actually
01:41:30
help you absorb the magnesium better
01:41:33
than if you just had it from a
01:41:34
supplement. So you have to really like
01:41:35
bananas. My daughter says it's very
01:41:37
banana e. Dad, the flavor, I mean.
01:41:44
>> Oh, it does smell like bananas.
01:41:45
>> I'm telling you, if you like bananas,
01:41:47
>> it's nice.
01:41:48
>> I know it's nice. And you can use this
01:41:50
as a like an evening ritual and you can
01:41:53
make banana tea and have it in the
01:41:55
evening with, you know, a biscuit or
01:41:57
what have you and have a nice and read a
01:41:58
book and just be chill.
01:41:59
>> How do I know the magnesium is actually
01:42:01
in there?
01:42:01
>> Cuz it came through from the from the um
01:42:03
steeping in the water.
01:42:05
>> Okay.
01:42:05
>> Well, you could test it if we want, but
01:42:06
I can assure you it's in there. You need
01:42:07
to leave it in there for about 5 minutes
01:42:09
and we've been talking for a while, so
01:42:10
I'm pretty sure it's there.
01:42:11
>> And and how long before sleep to get
01:42:12
those effects?
01:42:13
>> I would say about 2530 minutes. You
01:42:15
don't want to have too much, by the way,
01:42:16
because then you're gonna have to wake
01:42:17
up and pee. So try if you can
01:42:20
>> to be able to have it about 30 40
01:42:21
minutes before bed.
01:42:22
>> So you can put it in anything. A lot of
01:42:23
people have different types of teas. So
01:42:25
you could just use that as the water
01:42:26
instead.
01:42:26
>> Yeah. Oh, without question. Actually,
01:42:28
that would be a really good idea. And
01:42:29
you could, if you did it, if you mix it
01:42:31
with like a fruit tea, like an herbal
01:42:33
fruit tea, that would be really
01:42:34
delicious.
01:42:35
>> Are there any other supplements that
01:42:36
you, you know, you do encourage people
01:42:38
to take if they're struggling with sleep
01:42:39
that we haven't talked about yet?
01:42:40
>> We haven't talked about vitamin D, and
01:42:42
that's a big one. So it turns out that
01:42:44
vitamin D is a circadian pacemaker. So
01:42:46
when light comes into your eyeballs, it
01:42:49
helps change your whole uh circadian
01:42:52
system. And if you're if light is coming
01:42:54
in for a certain amount of time, about
01:42:55
15 minutes, your body will start to
01:42:57
produce vitamin D. Vitamin D does a
01:42:59
whole host of important things to your
01:43:01
body. But most importantly from a sleep
01:43:03
perspective, is it helps regulate
01:43:05
melatonin and when your body produces
01:43:07
it. So by taking vitamin D every day or
01:43:10
getting 15 minutes of sunshine, either
01:43:12
way, you're going to be in better shape.
01:43:13
So, like as an example, my morning
01:43:15
routine that I have all my patients do
01:43:17
is I have them when they wake up in the
01:43:18
morning, I have them uh go outside if
01:43:21
it's if it's, you know, nice out, sit in
01:43:23
a chair and have 15 deep breaths merely
01:43:26
to wake up the respiratory system, then
01:43:28
15 ounces of water cuz once again,
01:43:30
remember, you're dehydrated, and then 15
01:43:32
minutes of sunshine. So, they can do all
01:43:34
of this together at the same time. And
01:43:36
it's a nice way to wake up in the
01:43:37
morning.
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01:45:52
>> So, let's talk about waking up in the
01:45:53
morning.
01:45:54
>> Sure.
01:45:54
>> Morning routines.
01:45:55
>> Yep.
01:45:55
>> A lot of people talk about what's the
01:45:57
perfect morning routine? Do you need to
01:45:58
have a morning routine? What's your take
01:45:59
on that? So, it depends upon how
01:46:02
disciplined you want to be and it
01:46:03
depends upon how much time you have. I
01:46:05
can tell you what my morning routine is
01:46:06
because it's very specific and I I've
01:46:08
discovered that it works really really
01:46:09
well for me. So, I wake up naturally
01:46:12
somewhere between 6:10 and about 6:25 or
01:46:15
so. My body just seems to naturally wake
01:46:17
up. I do 15 minutes of red light
01:46:19
therapy. So, I have a red light uh in my
01:46:21
office that I sit in front of and I do
01:46:23
my meditation at the same time in the
01:46:25
morning time. So, I have about 15
01:46:26
minutes of meditation. Sometimes what
01:46:28
I'll do is um I'll sit on the floor and
01:46:31
the boys will come and sit on my lap and
01:46:34
then we'll all meditate together. I know
01:46:35
that sounds a little weird. Then um we
01:46:37
use a we do a 15-minute walk. I try not
01:46:39
to have any music or any telephone or
01:46:42
anything like that uh up at all up until
01:46:44
this point. I put the dogs away and then
01:46:46
I hit the gym. I'm at the gym from about
01:46:48
8 till about 9:30, 10:00. I do a sauna
01:46:52
every day afterwards and then I'm in
01:46:54
front of my desk by about 10:30 and
01:46:56
that's is when I have my breakfast. And
01:46:58
so I make the same breakfast almost
01:47:00
every morning. I do uh ground turkey
01:47:02
with uh a third of a pound of ground
01:47:04
turkey, three eggs and broccoli and I I
01:47:07
put it all into a skillet and I make it
01:47:08
every morning.
01:47:09
>> Do you use any sleep trackers?
01:47:10
>> In the past I've used uh a few of them.
01:47:13
I I try them out because a lot of my
01:47:15
patients try them out. Um, I think if I
01:47:17
was going to be looking at them, I think
01:47:18
the aura ring probably does the best
01:47:21
job. I really don't think they've gotten
01:47:23
there quite yet because remember depth
01:47:25
of sleep is based on brain waves and
01:47:27
it's hard to get brain waves from your
01:47:28
finger, right? And so what they're doing
01:47:30
is they're creating a proxy. So they're
01:47:31
looking at heart rate or oxygen or pulse
01:47:35
or something along those lines and then
01:47:36
saying, "Okay, when Stephven's at this
01:47:38
pulse, we think he's in REM sleep, so
01:47:40
we're going to label every time that REM
01:47:42
sleep." when in fact they don't really
01:47:44
know because they're not measuring your
01:47:45
brain waves. So I think until we get to
01:47:47
the point where we can measure brain
01:47:49
waves from distally, I think we'll have
01:47:51
a little bit better shot at it. However,
01:47:54
>> there's some interesting things that are
01:47:55
going on kind of in the sleep tracker
01:47:57
world. And some people get a little too
01:47:58
into the whole tracking of it all, if
01:48:00
you know what I mean. Like I can't count
01:48:02
the number of people that are like, "Oh
01:48:03
my god, Dr. Bruce, you know, this says I
01:48:05
only slept 14 minutes last night. Like
01:48:07
what do I do?" And I'm like, "Well,
01:48:09
number one, how much did you sleep the
01:48:10
night before?" And they say, "Oh, 16
01:48:12
minutes." I'm like, "Okay, well, let's
01:48:13
check you tomorrow." They come back
01:48:14
tomorrow, it's even worse, 12 minutes.
01:48:17
I'm like, "Oh, you're fine." They're
01:48:18
like, "What?" I'm like, "Look, it's
01:48:20
being consistently inaccurate. There's
01:48:22
no way you only got 14 minutes of deep
01:48:24
sleep, right? That's just not how the
01:48:25
body works, right? But if you got 14
01:48:28
minutes, 14 minutes, and then one night
01:48:29
you look at your score and it's 407
01:48:31
minutes.
01:48:32
>> I want to know what happened on that
01:48:33
night."
01:48:33
>> My friend was a big fan of Whoop. So, he
01:48:36
told me to try a Whoop. I tried a Whoop.
01:48:38
the the most I think critical thing it's
01:48:39
done for me is it allowed me to create
01:48:45
some understanding of like causation and
01:48:47
like associations with my sleep. So one
01:48:49
of the ones that completely changed my
01:48:51
life when I first wore my Whoop, which
01:48:53
by the way I'm an investor in the
01:48:54
company so I have to disclaimer that
01:48:56
>> um was I didn't realize how impactful
01:48:58
sleep alcohol was on my sleep.
01:49:00
>> It's massive.
01:49:01
>> Like it blew my mind cuz I had had one
01:49:03
glass of wine.
01:49:04
>> Yep. And then the bloody whoop thing
01:49:06
said you're either really sick um really
01:49:10
stressed or you drank alcohol. And then
01:49:12
I watched a video online where they
01:49:13
compared all of the devices to the
01:49:16
hospital grade stuff.
01:49:17
>> Yep. Poly synography
01:49:18
>> and the Whoop 4 was the closest to the
01:49:21
hospital grade. And then I contacted the
01:49:23
company and said can I invest etc etc.
01:49:24
I've also tried I've also tried like a
01:49:26
sleep and
01:49:27
>> I would argue that temperature like if
01:49:28
we're talking about what is the easiest
01:49:30
thing to manipulate to change your sleep
01:49:32
either good or bad temperature is it um
01:49:35
and people don't realize it but you can
01:49:37
change the temperature in your bedroom
01:49:39
even in your bed and you can change the
01:49:41
quality of your sleep. You mentioned
01:49:43
eight that's a company that has a a
01:49:45
topper type of thing that can change the
01:49:47
uh the temperature underneath the
01:49:49
covers. There's also taking a look at
01:49:51
the the accutramal that's on. So
01:49:53
pillows, sheets, comforters, all of
01:49:55
those things. But if you can get your
01:49:57
body to cool down, your body will go
01:49:59
down and get into deeper stages of
01:50:01
sleep. If you can stay cool versus
01:50:04
bumping up and down all night long,
01:50:06
let's say you're a woman in menopause,
01:50:08
right? That becomes highly disruptive.
01:50:09
And so by being a by being able to keep
01:50:12
a consistent temperature stimulus to the
01:50:15
body, it ends up sleeping a whole lot
01:50:16
better.
01:50:17
>> Dreams. Let's talk about dreams. People
01:50:19
are so fascinated by dreams,
01:50:20
>> aren't they? I love it.
01:50:22
>> But but so little is known about dreams.
01:50:24
>> Yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean, here's
01:50:27
the thing. Dreams have been studied
01:50:30
honestly since the dawn of time. If you
01:50:32
look in the Bible, you will see that
01:50:34
people are talking about dreams. If you
01:50:36
look at ancient texts, people are
01:50:38
wondering about these crazy movies that
01:50:40
are going on in my head. Right? When you
01:50:42
start to look at dreams, here's the
01:50:44
thing that I will tell you is dreams
01:50:47
mean something to the dreamer. They
01:50:49
don't necessarily mean something to
01:50:50
somebody who is not the dreamer. And so
01:50:52
when I do dream work and so I so to be
01:50:55
clear, just take a step back, I took a
01:50:57
year and a half and I became a dream
01:50:58
therapist. So what does that mean? What
01:51:01
is that even is that even a thing? So
01:51:04
dream therapy, by the way, is not dream
01:51:06
interpretation. That is not here's a
01:51:08
symbol, here's what that means. Dream
01:51:10
therapy is where you use dreams in the
01:51:13
therapeutic context to help people with
01:51:16
things like depression and anxiety.
01:51:19
>> Let me give you an example. A nightmare,
01:51:21
right? So when somebody has, let's say
01:51:22
somebody was in an active theater of war
01:51:24
and they watched one of their friends,
01:51:26
god forbid, something terrible happened
01:51:28
to them and that image is now in their
01:51:30
head and now they constantly have this
01:51:32
image over and over and over. But what
01:51:34
happens is they're going, going, going
01:51:35
going and they wake up. They're going,
01:51:36
going, going going going, they wake up.
01:51:37
We talked a little bit about it earlier
01:51:39
that dreams are emotional metabolism,
01:51:42
right? So dreams are where you work out
01:51:45
all of these different things that are
01:51:46
going on in your head and kind of become
01:51:48
okay with them so that way next day you
01:51:50
can kind of move forward and keep keep
01:51:52
doing your thing.
01:51:53
>> Do we need to explain why we dream
01:51:55
because I think that's the big sort of
01:51:57
>> Sure. So there's a couple of theories.
01:51:59
One theory is is that this is a great
01:52:01
stage for for practice, right? So we
01:52:04
dream about things that we're eventually
01:52:06
going to try in the real world and so we
01:52:08
get a chance to practice them in our
01:52:09
head beforehand to to make sure it
01:52:12
doesn't we don't kind of screw the whole
01:52:13
thing up. So there's that whole idea of
01:52:15
being able to kind of work stuff out in
01:52:17
my head. Then there's the processing
01:52:19
idea that we talked about before where
01:52:20
this is emotional metabolism. So
01:52:22
therapy,
01:52:23
>> right? Exactly. It's like you go to
01:52:24
therapy every single night. I actually
01:52:26
that's a really good way to think about
01:52:27
it. I hadn't thought about it like that,
01:52:28
but I think I'm going to use that. I'm
01:52:29
going to take that from you. Um, I like
01:52:31
that dreams are therapy every single
01:52:33
night because they really are. You're
01:52:34
really moving through a lot of that
01:52:36
emotionality. Some people think dreams
01:52:38
are complete nonsense. Some people think
01:52:40
that's just some crazy movie in your
01:52:41
head and it's just this after effect of
01:52:43
your brain moving into a different mode
01:52:45
and who knows what it could mean. I find
01:52:47
that one hard to believe myself
01:52:49
>> because humans don't do anything.
01:52:51
>> I don't think so.
01:52:52
>> That isn't for some type of survival
01:52:54
benefit
01:52:54
>> for sure.
01:52:55
>> It's a waste of energy or you know
01:52:58
>> Yeah, I agree. And so if we looked at it
01:53:00
from an evolutionary perspective, like
01:53:02
what is the evolutionary purpose of
01:53:04
dreams, I would argue that it probably
01:53:06
has something to do with emotions and
01:53:08
being able to uh move through some
01:53:11
emotionally difficult times and or it's
01:53:13
an early warning system. A lot of people
01:53:15
dream things and uh it helps them
01:53:17
understand something else that's going
01:53:18
on in their life. You ever heard the um
01:53:20
thing uh people say, I before I make a
01:53:22
big decision, I want to sleep on it.
01:53:24
>> Yeah.
01:53:24
>> Right. this is what they're doing is
01:53:26
when they sleep on it all these
01:53:27
desperate pieces of information come
01:53:29
together and work themselves so that you
01:53:31
can come to a solution. So I think the
01:53:33
other thing that reason that we dream is
01:53:35
to come to solutions and to create
01:53:37
innovation
01:53:38
>> that tracks in my life. I I can be going
01:53:41
to bed really thinking about something
01:53:43
quite like you know remunerating about
01:53:46
something to the point that it's like
01:53:47
overthinking and it's a problem. It's
01:53:49
stressing me out.
01:53:50
>> I can get eight hours sleep and wake up
01:53:53
and it's like the clouds have parted,
01:53:55
>> right? It's like magic.
01:53:56
>> It's like magic.
01:53:57
>> It's great. And I only real realized
01:53:59
this in the last couple of years when
01:54:00
you know business my businesses got
01:54:01
bigger and there was more problems to to
01:54:04
work through that like actually I could
01:54:06
use sleep as a weapon against the
01:54:08
problem. Absolutely.
01:54:09
>> Versus trying to stay up all night and
01:54:10
solve the problem. I could focus on the
01:54:12
sleep to solve the problem.
01:54:13
>> Yeah. I do it all the time. And and what
01:54:15
you can actually do it's called priming
01:54:17
is you can think about the problem in a
01:54:20
in a way before you go to sleep and then
01:54:22
it triggers your brain to think about
01:54:24
the problem while you're sleeping. what
01:54:26
you write it down or do you
01:54:27
>> There's a lot of different ways you can
01:54:28
go about doing it. So, for example, what
01:54:30
I have some people do is write down
01:54:31
everything they can remember in their
01:54:33
dream beforehand before they come to
01:54:35
therapy. But what you can do is
01:54:37
something different. If you want to
01:54:38
change your dream, you write it all
01:54:40
down, but that you change the ending.
01:54:42
Okay? And you read it several times
01:54:44
before bed and it will actually change
01:54:46
your dream.
01:54:47
>> So, what am I writing down before bed
01:54:48
then?
01:54:49
>> So, let's say you had a scary dream.
01:54:50
Okay? You're walking through a haunted
01:54:52
house and something terrible is going to
01:54:53
happen when you walk out the back door
01:54:54
>> the night before.
01:54:55
>> Yeah. The night before. Then I have you
01:54:57
write all of that down and then when you
01:54:59
come into session with me, I say, "Okay,
01:55:01
we're going to change the ending because
01:55:02
at the at the very end, you walked out
01:55:03
onto the porch and somebody got you
01:55:06
right." So instead of that happening,
01:55:07
you're going to walk out to the porch
01:55:08
and you're going to pull out a gun and
01:55:09
you're going to shoot the guy. Okay? And
01:55:11
so we change that in the dream in the
01:55:13
right in what you wrote down and then we
01:55:15
talk about it in therapy. And then right
01:55:17
before bed, you read this to yourself
01:55:19
multiple times and it over 7 to 10 days,
01:55:23
you change the ending of the dream.
01:55:26
>> And how does that help?
01:55:28
>> So it makes it more positive. And when
01:55:30
you change the ending, the reason you're
01:55:31
waking up is something is scaring you so
01:55:33
much that you're waking up and you stop
01:55:34
processing. And so when you change the
01:55:36
ending and you don't wake up, you
01:55:37
continue to process and then you move
01:55:39
past the dream. Just like you said when
01:55:41
you wake up and the clouds have cleared.
01:55:43
>> A lot of people wake up and the clouds
01:55:44
don't clear because they have nightmares
01:55:46
and they keep repeating it over and over
01:55:47
and over again.
01:55:49
>> H
01:55:50
>> it's quite remarkable. The process is
01:55:52
very interesting. So what I do is I
01:55:54
bring them into session put them into a
01:55:55
mild hypnotic state uh only by doing
01:55:58
some simple breath work. Right? So let
01:56:00
me give you an example of somebody that
01:56:01
I worked with and tell you exactly how
01:56:03
it went. So I was working with somebody
01:56:05
who had had uh pretty significant
01:56:06
trauma. They had been raped. Right? And
01:56:08
so they were having nightmares about
01:56:10
this. So serious situation, right? So
01:56:11
she had a she had a nightmare of being
01:56:14
in a jungle. And so I had her come in
01:56:16
session, wrote it all down. And when we
01:56:18
got to the end, we were walking through
01:56:20
the jungle. She was actually being
01:56:21
chased through the jungle. So I turn to
01:56:23
her and I say, "Okay, well, we're in the
01:56:24
jungle. Tell me more about this jungle."
01:56:27
And she says, "What do you mean?" I
01:56:28
said, "Well, in jungles there's lots of
01:56:30
tropical plants. There a lot of colorful
01:56:31
flowers." and she'll stop and you can
01:56:34
see she's looking around inside her head
01:56:37
at the dreamscape and then she says,
01:56:39
"Oh, there are there's some beautiful
01:56:41
flowers over there. I've now advanced
01:56:43
the dream, right?" Because she didn't
01:56:44
know there were flowers before. Now
01:56:46
she's imagined that they're flowers. I'm
01:56:48
moving the dream forward. So, we go over
01:56:50
and we smell the flower. And I said,
01:56:50
"Well, you know, usually in jungles
01:56:52
there's there's animals. Are there any
01:56:53
animals?"
01:56:56
"Yeah, there's a lion." "Oh gosh, is the
01:56:58
lion friendly?" "Yeah, the lion is
01:57:00
friendly. Can we go over and talk to the
01:57:02
lion? Yeah, Michael, we can. So, again,
01:57:05
in her head, we walk over. So, I say to
01:57:07
her, "Uh, does the lion have a name?"
01:57:10
And she said, "I don't know. Let me
01:57:11
ask." So, she asked the lion his name.
01:57:13
And she said, "Yeah, his name is Jack."
01:57:15
And I said, "What does Jack mean to
01:57:16
you?" And instantly she says, "Jack was
01:57:19
my uncle and he saved me from getting
01:57:21
raped by my stepfather."
01:57:23
Now, we're getting somewhere. Now, we
01:57:26
understand what's chasing her. Now, we
01:57:28
understand where she's headed to. She's
01:57:30
trying to head to the person that saved
01:57:32
her. Now she starts to understand where
01:57:34
this dream is coming from. And guess
01:57:36
what? In three or four more sessions,
01:57:38
she doesn't have the dream anymore
01:57:40
>> because you did what?
01:57:42
>> Because she now understands where it is.
01:57:44
She's no longer scared in the middle of
01:57:45
her dream. She's able to understand it,
01:57:47
wake up, and move forward.
01:57:49
>> It's remarkable.
01:57:52
It's kind of the coolest thing ever. If
01:57:53
you want to know the truth of the
01:57:54
matter, working with people's dreams is
01:57:56
just ma amazing stuff. And for people at
01:57:58
home that might not have access to you,
01:58:00
>> um is is a is there a simple thing that
01:58:02
they can do to start to sort of get a
01:58:04
hold of these dreams?
01:58:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Number one is you
01:58:06
could actually start a dream journal.
01:58:08
>> So it's just a journal. Um and there's a
01:58:10
couple things that you would write down
01:58:11
in a given dream journal. So you might
01:58:13
write down um what was the theme, right?
01:58:16
So was it was like describe it like was
01:58:18
it dark out? Was it light out? Uh was it
01:58:20
scary? Was it happy? You might describe
01:58:22
the surroundings of it and you might
01:58:24
describe the people that are in it as
01:58:26
well. um and start listing these things
01:58:28
and getting as detailed as you possibly
01:58:31
can. Once you've kind of gotten through
01:58:33
the point of getting the details down of
01:58:35
your dream, then if you want to change
01:58:37
them, you can change the ending. It's
01:58:39
not hard. You just change it the way you
01:58:41
want it to be. Then you start to read it
01:58:43
over for yourself. Now, I want to be
01:58:45
clear, in terrible nightmare situations,
01:58:48
this can be a little bit difficult. And
01:58:50
so, you're probably going to want to
01:58:50
talk with your therapist about it and
01:58:52
maybe work with the therapist while
01:58:54
doing something like this. But it is
01:58:55
absolutely possible to collect
01:58:56
information from in a dream journal u
01:58:58
and be able to do some interesting stuff
01:59:00
with it. I would not recommend taking
01:59:03
your dream and stuffing it into chat GPT
01:59:05
and asking chat GPT what it means. Um
01:59:08
lots and lots of people are doing that
01:59:10
these days. And here's why that's
01:59:11
probably not the best idea. So number
01:59:14
one, unless chat GPT really knows and
01:59:17
understands you there, it's going to
01:59:19
give some very broadbased sort of
01:59:21
encyclopedia. you know, here's a symbol
01:59:23
that means this type of thing, which
01:59:25
once again, we have very little evidence
01:59:26
that that actually works. So, I would
01:59:29
argue that you're better off talking
01:59:30
about your dreams with people who know
01:59:32
you. Um, because they can actually help
01:59:34
you understand a little bit more about
01:59:35
what's going on.
01:59:36
>> There's a few other items on the table
01:59:38
here. Um, I mean, this is I don't use
01:59:40
this exact one, but maybe I should, but
01:59:42
this has been an absolute game changer
01:59:44
for me when I travel, when I'm on
01:59:46
planes.
01:59:47
>> I love a good sleep mask. My wife says
01:59:49
it looks like I'm living in the 50s.
01:59:52
you know, when I'm wearing it. But I
01:59:54
love a good sleep mask. That one in
01:59:55
particular is pretty cool because you
01:59:56
can remove the eye cups and you can
01:59:58
change the sizing of where you want it.
02:00:01
And then these can actually you can
02:00:02
replace these with things that heat or
02:00:04
cool.
02:00:04
>> Um, but I love that that particular eye
02:00:07
mask. It works. Yeah, it's really works
02:00:09
quite well. It's very dark in there. You
02:00:12
definitely can't see up there.
02:00:13
>> Crazy,
02:00:13
>> right?
02:00:15
>> And then I've got one more thing that I
02:00:16
think people will find interesting. I
02:00:18
can't explain how how much of a game
02:00:20
changer it has been to cover my eyes
02:00:22
when I go to sleep because gosh the
02:00:24
amount of nights per week where I don't
02:00:25
know there's like a crack in the in the
02:00:28
curtains or I don't know someone gets up
02:00:30
early and
02:00:31
>> well also for you you're traveling all
02:00:33
the time you're in different you're in
02:00:34
planes you're in different environments
02:00:36
also by the way every time you're in a
02:00:38
different environment you have something
02:00:39
called the first night effect so we see
02:00:41
this with every human on earth when you
02:00:43
sleep in a new place for the first night
02:00:45
you never sleep well because it's new
02:00:47
sounds new sights you know, new smells,
02:00:49
all that stuff is new. So, what's nice
02:00:51
about having this is when I put one of
02:00:52
these on, I don't have to worry about
02:00:54
light. I don't have to worry about
02:00:55
anything.
02:00:56
>> Does CO2 play a role?
02:00:57
>> In what way?
02:00:58
>> In changing sleep. I was thinking if
02:01:00
ventilation, the amount of oxygen in the
02:01:02
room matters at all because sometimes I
02:01:03
go to hotels and they don't have windows
02:01:05
you can open.
02:01:06
>> Right. So, air quality is also a
02:01:09
important thing, not just air quantity,
02:01:12
right? And so number number one thing if
02:01:14
I was to tell people, hey, here's an
02:01:15
easy thing to do to to make your sleep
02:01:17
better, just go out and buy an air
02:01:19
purifier for your bedroom. Think about
02:01:20
it. It's the room you spend more time in
02:01:22
than any other room in the house. You
02:01:24
want that air to be fresh and filtered,
02:01:27
right? And not a big, it's not
02:01:28
expensive. 20 25 bucks. One sits in the
02:01:30
corner, just runs the air, cycles all
02:01:32
day long. That way you know you have
02:01:34
good clean fresh air. Um, also I tell
02:01:37
people open the windows once a week. Um,
02:01:39
it's good to get fresh air in. Now, the
02:01:41
only problem comes is if you have
02:01:42
allergies and the allergens fly in and
02:01:45
there's pollen or dust or things like
02:01:47
that, that can be somewhat problematic.
02:01:50
But generally speaking, if you don't
02:01:52
have enough oxygen going on, you're
02:01:54
definitely not going to sleep well and
02:01:55
your body's going to wake up. So, if you
02:01:56
were in, let's say, a oxygen restrictive
02:01:59
environment, so let's say that you were
02:02:01
underneath the covers,
02:02:02
>> right? And you've got the thing all all
02:02:04
the way over your head, you're not going
02:02:05
to sleep particularly well and
02:02:06
eventually you're going to get so feel
02:02:08
so restricted that you're going to open
02:02:09
up the covers. I want to understand the
02:02:12
best possible sleep position. I do have
02:02:14
a bed um in the room next door that we
02:02:15
can go to and talk about these pillows.
02:02:17
But before we do that,
02:02:18
>> sure.
02:02:18
>> I would like to talk about
02:02:21
>> relationships, arguing with your
02:02:24
partner, sex, all those kinds of things.
02:02:26
What do I need to know
02:02:28
>> to protect my sleep, but also to protect
02:02:29
my relationship? If we start with
02:02:30
talking about I know you wrote about it
02:02:32
in your book, um the power of when you
02:02:34
talked about I think it's on page 10
02:02:36
>> 101. You talk about arguing with your
02:02:38
partner before bed.
02:02:39
>> Yes.
02:02:41
Possibly the worst thing you can
02:02:43
possibly do is argue with your partner
02:02:45
before bed. Um because it's increasing
02:02:48
heart rate, right? What I tell all my
02:02:51
patients to do is if you if you need to
02:02:53
have an important discussion with your
02:02:55
spouse or your partner, do it right
02:02:58
after dinner, right? So like in that
02:03:00
7:00 range, 7 to 8:00 range. So that way
02:03:03
you have enough space and time to be
02:03:04
able to discuss something and not
02:03:06
hopefully go to bed angry if you can
02:03:08
avoid it at all possible. It happens.
02:03:10
Look, I can't say that I've never gone
02:03:12
to bed angry. I'm sure you can't say
02:03:13
that either. Sometimes things are a
02:03:15
bigger deal. But if you can find better
02:03:17
times to schedule those things, they
02:03:19
work out a lot better. For me, the other
02:03:21
thing that I oftentimes ask a lot of my
02:03:23
patients to do is, for example, if
02:03:25
there's known issues that are going on,
02:03:27
like let's say somebody's going through
02:03:28
marital therapy or there's there's an
02:03:30
issue that they're trying to work on,
02:03:32
then maybe that's better off done at
02:03:34
11:00 in the daytime versus starting to
02:03:37
kind of address some of those issues in
02:03:39
the evening time. I like evening times
02:03:41
to be as stressfree as humanly possible.
02:03:44
Now, if you got something you got to
02:03:45
talk about, you got to talk about it.
02:03:47
But generally speaking, I would say the
02:03:48
le the less emotionality that you have
02:03:52
in towards the evening, the better.
02:03:54
Unless it's joy or happiness.
02:03:55
>> So many couples, they have these
02:03:57
difficult conversations on the pillow.
02:03:58
>> Yeah.
02:03:58
>> Including me sometimes.
02:03:59
>> Yeah. Well, and it makes sense like when
02:04:01
else do you see that person, right? You
02:04:03
haven't seen them all day. You're you're
02:04:04
literally face to face like, "Hey, I got
02:04:06
something I got to talk to you about.
02:04:07
This is kind of the best time to do it."
02:04:08
>> It ruins your sex life as well, doesn't
02:04:09
it? absolutely ruins your sex life
02:04:11
unless you have makeup sex afterwards
02:04:13
and then it's great but at the end of
02:04:15
the day it's not a lot of fun to have
02:04:17
those conversations at night. That's
02:04:18
again why I choose to if I'm going to
02:04:20
have that conversation the best time
02:04:22
honestly to do it is right after
02:04:23
breakfast.
02:04:24
>> In my relationship we've banned uh
02:04:26
difficult conversations at night time.
02:04:27
>> Good. That's probably a smart move.
02:04:29
Dude,
02:04:30
>> you're tired and it's going to destroy
02:04:31
your sleep,
02:04:32
>> right?
02:04:33
>> You you can't think straight. You're
02:04:34
probably more emotional
02:04:35
>> and you haven't put all the pieces
02:04:37
together yet of the issues that are
02:04:38
really going on. I can assure you if you
02:04:40
sleep and then have your discussion in
02:04:41
the morning, you'll actually think about
02:04:43
the issue better.
02:04:45
>> It's so crazy. As I've gotten older,
02:04:47
I've realized how much of my mood is
02:04:49
determined by my sleep. Like, it's so
02:04:52
And I think it's got worse with age.
02:04:54
>> Oh, absolutely it does.
02:04:55
>> Because at 25 you could blow [ __ ] off.
02:04:58
Oh, yeah. Or you could drink a monster
02:04:59
or a
02:05:01
mood. Yeah. Sleep matters. And I think
02:05:03
that's what you're that's that's the
02:05:04
button that you're pushing here. And I
02:05:06
think it's important for your audience
02:05:07
to hear that, right? is look, you're 33
02:05:09
years old and you're already seeing
02:05:11
things changing in your sleep that have
02:05:13
a big effect in your life. I'm 58 years
02:05:15
old, okay? I see the same thing
02:05:17
happening. Everybody, sleep is so
02:05:20
fundamental to the human condition that
02:05:22
it's one of those things that we've got
02:05:24
to really pay attention to. And the
02:05:26
thing is, most people don't pay
02:05:27
attention to it because they're like,
02:05:28
"Well, my body does it automatically,
02:05:29
Michael. Like, how tough could this be?"
02:05:31
I walk into that room in the back of the
02:05:32
house, I turn off the lights, h go to
02:05:34
bed, then I wake up, something magical
02:05:35
happens, and I should be great, right?
02:05:37
doesn't always work that way.
02:05:39
>> I was reading in your work about the
02:05:41
best time to fall in love.
02:05:43
>> Yes.
02:05:43
>> That's a strange thing for a
02:05:46
>> somebody of your profession to be
02:05:47
thinking much about was in this book,
02:05:49
was it?
02:05:49
>> Yeah, it was.
02:05:50
>> Yeah.
02:05:51
>> When you think about it, everything is
02:05:54
based on timing, right? So, the timing
02:05:57
when your hormones at a certain point
02:05:58
and you meet that person and their
02:06:00
hormones at a certain point and then all
02:06:02
of the sudden there's a connection,
02:06:04
>> right? That's hard to do when you're
02:06:06
exhausted, right? Try going on a first
02:06:09
date when you're completely like when
02:06:12
it's the worst, right? You know, you're
02:06:13
not giving a good impression of
02:06:14
yourself. You know that you're not
02:06:16
getting a good impression of that person
02:06:18
because your mind is not going where it
02:06:20
needs to be. So, there's timing involved
02:06:22
and understanding your chronoype and
02:06:25
that person's chronoype really leads you
02:06:27
in that positive direction. And I would
02:06:30
argue that it's pretty easy to fall in
02:06:32
love at that time.
02:06:33
>> Okay. So, in your book,
02:06:34
>> um, Power of When,
02:06:35
>> yes.
02:06:36
>> On page 9, uh,4, you say, "Dolphin's
02:06:39
best mood is in the afternoon to
02:06:41
evening." So, the best time for them to
02:06:43
fall in love is 8:00 p.m. Lions
02:06:45
>> 700 a.m.,
02:06:46
>> right? Cuz remember, they're early
02:06:47
morning people. They're exhausted at the
02:06:49
end.
02:06:49
>> Damn. So, they should be going on
02:06:51
morning dates.
02:06:52
>> Yes.
02:06:52
>> Bears,
02:06:53
>> 400 p.m. And the wolf, like me, 11:00
02:06:56
p.m. That tracks.
02:06:57
>> Yeah, I get it. So, should I be doing
02:07:00
my, you know, okay, I'm in a
02:07:02
relationship. I'm about to be married.
02:07:04
But, um, I should
02:07:05
>> you got engaged. Congratulations.
02:07:06
>> Thank you so much.
02:07:07
>> Yeah,
02:07:07
>> but I should be doing my dates later. It
02:07:09
kind of tracks. That's kind of when I
02:07:10
did them.
02:07:11
>> Well, look at your whole schedule, dude.
02:07:12
You don't do a thing before 11.
02:07:14
>> That's true.
02:07:14
>> Right. I think you're exactly like I am.
02:07:17
>> Shall we go and look at the best
02:07:19
possible sleep position?
02:07:20
>> Yeah, let's check it out. And we talk
02:07:21
about pillows, too.
02:07:22
>> Okay. So, I'll bring all the pillows
02:07:23
with me.
02:07:23
>> Okay, great.
02:07:24
>> Okay. Okay. So, we're going to go into
02:07:25
the next room where there's a bed and
02:07:26
you're going to tell me what can you
02:07:28
tell me when we look at the bed. How can
02:07:29
you help?
02:07:29
>> So, there's a couple of different
02:07:30
things. So, number one, I'm going to
02:07:31
look at your starting sleep position and
02:07:33
I'm going to give you some feedback
02:07:34
about that. Then, we're going to fit you
02:07:36
for the right kind of pillow for you.
02:07:38
And then there's some cool technology in
02:07:39
there that I want to show you as well
02:07:41
that can help keep you cool all night
02:07:42
long.
02:07:43
>> And do we need to take this with us?
02:07:44
>> Yes, take that one. And then, how many
02:07:46
pillows are there?
02:07:47
>> I think there's five.
02:07:48
>> There's five different pillows. Okay,
02:07:50
great. Let's
02:07:50
>> They all do different things.
02:07:51
>> Okay.
02:07:53
>> Okay. Okay, so we're now downstairs in a
02:07:55
bedroom we have in the house. I have
02:07:57
lots of pillows here, quite a few.
02:07:59
>> And there's a bunch of questions I have
02:08:00
for you. The first is
02:08:01
>> pillows. Do they matter? Is there a
02:08:03
perfect one? Is it different for every
02:08:04
individual
02:08:06
>> sleeping position? Is there a perfect
02:08:08
sleeping position? There is.
02:08:09
>> And the third one is about temperature.
02:08:12
>> You got it. Let's go.
02:08:13
>> So I just grab whatever pillow is in the
02:08:15
bed wherever I travel.
02:08:16
>> Terrible idea.
02:08:17
>> Really
02:08:18
>> terrible idea. So, first of all, a lot
02:08:19
of people need to understand that a
02:08:21
pillow is a bed for your head, right?
02:08:23
And so, the goal here is to keep your
02:08:25
nose in line with your sternum, which is
02:08:27
sort of the center part of your chest,
02:08:29
right? And but you don't want it facing
02:08:31
down and you don't want it facing up.
02:08:32
You want it to be completely in the
02:08:33
center like that. And so, if you have a
02:08:35
pillow that tilts your head to the one
02:08:37
way or tilts your head to the other, it
02:08:39
causes a pain signal from the strain of
02:08:41
the musculature that goes to your brain.
02:08:43
You don't get into deep sleep. So, you
02:08:45
really want to make sure that you've got
02:08:47
a good pillow. Otherwise, you end up
02:08:48
with a crick in your neck. You don't get
02:08:49
good deep sleep. It becomes problematic.
02:08:52
>> Okay. All
02:08:52
>> right. So, the big question is how do
02:08:54
you pick a pillow? Right. So, first
02:08:56
question you want to ask yourself is
02:08:57
squishy or firm? Right. So, let's take a
02:09:00
look at our tower of pillows here.
02:09:03
>> So, for you, let's let's take a look.
02:09:06
So, this is a pretty firm one. This is a
02:09:08
basically a foam based hunk of foam
02:09:09
pillow, right? Versus this one, which is
02:09:12
sort of the normal kind of pillow, much
02:09:14
more squishy. So, which are you? A
02:09:16
squishy or a firm?
02:09:17
>> That one.
02:09:18
>> Okay, perfect. So, you're more on the
02:09:20
squishy, which means you like to
02:09:21
manipulate the pillow. You don't want it
02:09:22
to have a huge form factor where your
02:09:24
like head is on a block of cheese,
02:09:25
right? Got it. So, perfect. So, let's
02:09:27
move this foam pillow out of the way.
02:09:30
>> The second thing you want to look at
02:09:31
from the pillow is when the fabric comes
02:09:34
together here, it forms what's called a
02:09:36
knife's edge. So, it's where the two
02:09:39
pieces of fabric meet. Now, why is that
02:09:41
important? Because when you have your
02:09:43
head on a pillow like this and the
02:09:45
knife's edge is down here, you're not
02:09:47
getting as much support underneath your
02:09:48
neck here, right? So, in order to fix
02:09:51
that, we have something called a gusset.
02:09:54
So, a gusset is this piece of fabric
02:09:56
that comes along here. So, you notice
02:09:58
these two pieces of fabric don't meet.
02:09:59
There's a thickness here. So, when you
02:10:01
were to sleep on it, it actually catches
02:10:04
you all the way down. So, let's say you
02:10:05
would be like this, you it gives you
02:10:07
support all the way down. Now, you don't
02:10:09
like the foam of it all, but you do like
02:10:11
the the gusset, right?
02:10:14
>> Here's one that's got the gusset without
02:10:16
the foam. So, it's squishy and has the
02:10:18
gusset. So, if you were going to use
02:10:20
this,
02:10:20
>> that's good.
02:10:21
>> So, now we've been able to fit you for
02:10:23
the pillow. Now, the next question we
02:10:24
have, uh, well, the last one is there
02:10:27
are some special types of pillows.
02:10:28
Actually, this one has got a cutout. So,
02:10:31
you notice how that's got like a moon
02:10:33
here. It fits perfectly here. here. And
02:10:35
notice, right, this is this is my
02:10:37
personal pillow.
02:10:38
>> Oh, okay. I can So,
02:10:39
>> you have to shift.
02:10:40
>> I know. Sorry. Um, and so you can see it
02:10:42
really comes all the way down to your
02:10:44
neck and it gives you support all the
02:10:45
way from the base of your neck all the
02:10:47
way up through. And that's one of the
02:10:48
reasons that I like it cuz I can cut it
02:10:49
out and put it right there on me.
02:10:51
>> For the average person, if if they had
02:10:53
to pick one pillow without you knowing
02:10:55
anything about them, which pillow would
02:10:57
you pick of these six?
02:10:58
>> So, of all of these six, well, if I had
02:11:00
my choice, I'd pick this one because
02:11:01
this is my favorite. By the way, there's
02:11:03
also another feature of this that I
02:11:04
think is important to that people should
02:11:06
notice is it's got a zipper, which means
02:11:09
I can change the stuffing and I can pull
02:11:12
it out or put it in. So, I can change
02:11:15
the height of my pillow.
02:11:16
>> And what stuffing is that?
02:11:18
>> This is actually a shredded latex.
02:11:19
>> Okay.
02:11:20
>> Which I really like to sleep on.
02:11:21
>> So, what's this pillow called?
02:11:23
>> So, this is by a company called Coupe.
02:11:25
Um, and um I like it because of the
02:11:27
change in the in the shape as well as
02:11:30
the stuffing and the zipper on the side.
02:11:32
It really makes it kind of what I would
02:11:34
argue to be probably the best pillow
02:11:35
out.
02:11:35
>> And what's the worst pillow?
02:11:36
>> The worst pillow that we've got here,
02:11:38
this one. So, almost no support, right?
02:11:41
It's super squishy,
02:11:43
>> right? We don't we don't we have the
02:11:44
knife's edge here. There's not much to
02:11:46
it. Also, by the way, it feels like this
02:11:48
is made with polyester, which is a heat
02:11:49
trapper. Now, let's lie you down on the
02:11:52
bed, get you in your starting sleep
02:11:53
position, and I'm going to show you
02:11:54
exactly where the pillow should go and
02:11:56
what pillow should be for you. So, if
02:11:58
you can lie down for me. Now, what is
02:12:00
your starting sleep position? Are you a
02:12:01
back sleeper? You a side sleeper? You a
02:12:03
stomach sleeper?
02:12:04
>> I start on my stomach and I roll to my
02:12:08
right.
02:12:09
>> Got it. Okay, perfect. Go ahead and get
02:12:11
on your stomach for
02:12:11
>> By the way, how weird is that?
02:12:13
>> Roughly 75% of sleepers are side
02:12:15
sleepers, either right or left. So,
02:12:18
you're definitely not don't fall into
02:12:19
that category. Another 20 or so percent
02:12:22
are back sleepers. You're in the like 5%
02:12:24
category of stomach sleepers. The reason
02:12:26
it's the worst position is when you're
02:12:28
lying on your stomach, right, and the
02:12:30
pillow is here. You're pushing on your
02:12:32
back here and it causes what's called a
02:12:34
spllay, which is extra pressure on your
02:12:36
lower back. And that can give you low
02:12:37
back pain over time.
02:12:39
>> I only do it for the first like 10
02:12:41
minutes
02:12:41
>> and then you rotate.
02:12:42
>> And then I rotate onto my side.
02:12:43
>> Which side? Right or left?
02:12:44
>> My right. This side.
02:12:45
>> Perfect. So in all actuality, you
02:12:48
actually want to be on your left side
02:12:49
because when you lie on your right side,
02:12:51
you're actually all of your organs push
02:12:53
down onto your stomach and it can leak
02:12:54
some of those gastric juices and you end
02:12:56
up with something called
02:12:57
gastroosophageal reflux disease. So the
02:12:59
way I teach people is right is wrong. So
02:13:03
you don't sleep on your right side, you
02:13:04
sleep on your left side if you can. If
02:13:06
you can, but let's fit you anyway. Let's
02:13:08
go ahead and get you down on your what
02:13:10
would be your right side and let's see
02:13:11
how you do. Lie down.
02:13:12
>> How I normally lie down.
02:13:14
>> Yeah.
02:13:14
>> Okay. Okay. This is how I lie down when
02:13:15
I first get in bed for the first time. I
02:13:16
can't wait to see.
02:13:16
>> I'm like this. I move the pillow out the
02:13:19
way
02:13:19
>> and I just learn lay like this for a
02:13:21
while.
02:13:21
>> Okay. And you have no pillow.
02:13:22
>> No pillow.
02:13:23
>> Perfect. And then when you rotate to get
02:13:26
to your side.
02:13:27
>> Yeah.
02:13:27
>> Show me that.
02:13:28
>> I sleep like this on my on my right
02:13:31
side.
02:13:32
>> Like roughly like this.
02:13:33
>> So, what you'll notice is your shoulder
02:13:34
is now up into this part here. So, it's
02:13:37
still being supported. Your head is
02:13:38
fine. And what you'll notice is his head
02:13:40
is in line with his sternum, right? His
02:13:42
nose is in line there. It's not falling
02:13:45
too far. It's not overextended.
02:13:47
>> That's my sternum.
02:13:47
>> Your sternum is the direct center of
02:13:49
your chest. It's the m like your breast
02:13:50
plate is what you would call it, right?
02:13:52
Right. Sort of in the center of So, you
02:13:54
want your nose to be in line with that,
02:13:55
which it basically is. And when I look
02:13:57
at your head, your head is not tilted to
02:13:59
one side or another. So, I know there's
02:14:01
no more neck strain. So, that would be
02:14:03
the perfect pillow for you. But that
02:14:04
happens to be my pillow. So, I'm not
02:14:06
going to give it to you, but I might get
02:14:08
you one if you're nice to me.
02:14:10
>> Thank you. What about these other
02:14:11
pillow? So, the bad one was which one?
02:14:13
The bad one was this one. So now go
02:14:15
ahead and put yourself on that one.
02:14:18
>> Yeah, I'm going too far down.
02:14:20
>> Right. And you're not even trying. Like
02:14:22
you don't even have to push your head
02:14:23
that far. And and you can see and your
02:14:25
and look where do you put your arm? Your
02:14:26
arm's not supported. Like it's becomes
02:14:28
like people don't realize it but pillows
02:14:31
matter. What I try to tell people is I
02:14:33
used to be a runner and when you're a
02:14:35
runner like equipment matters like your
02:14:37
shoes matter, your music matters, your
02:14:39
your dry fit wear matters. The same
02:14:41
holds true with sleep. If you don't have
02:14:43
good pillow, good mattress, good sheets,
02:14:46
you don't have the right equipment,
02:14:47
you're not going to get good sleep.
02:14:48
>> That is a terrible pillow.
02:14:49
>> I'm telling you,
02:14:50
>> really, really bad pillow. Okay, so
02:14:52
sleeping on my left side is the correct
02:14:54
side
02:14:55
>> with a good pillow.
02:14:56
>> With a good pillow.
02:14:56
>> But now, let's talk about temperature.
02:14:58
>> Y.
02:14:58
>> So, while you're lying here, you may
02:15:01
have noticed that there's different
02:15:02
temperature on either side of the bed.
02:15:05
>> So, if you feel here
02:15:07
>> Oh, it's warm.
02:15:08
>> It is.
02:15:10
That's correct. So when you're lying
02:15:12
there, your body will naturally become
02:15:14
more warm. So remember how we were
02:15:16
talking that sleep follows the core body
02:15:18
temperature cycle, right? And so as your
02:15:20
core body temperature drops, you want
02:15:23
your environment to drop with it because
02:15:25
if it doesn't and the environment is too
02:15:27
hot, you can't fall asleep. So this is a
02:15:30
product. It's called an Orion sleep
02:15:32
system, and it's a topper that's you're
02:15:34
lying on top of. Has a thin tube that
02:15:37
goes through it. You can't feel the
02:15:38
tube. should feel cool over there and
02:15:40
warm over here.
02:15:41
>> It's cold here, it's warm here.
02:15:43
>> Exactly. And we and you can rotate it
02:15:44
however you want. But what's so
02:15:46
fascinating about this is you can
02:15:48
actually set it so that it follows your
02:15:50
circadian rhythm and it actually can
02:15:52
help you stay asleep. The only thing
02:15:54
that you as a consumer can manipulate in
02:15:56
your sleep. Like you can't write a
02:15:58
pharmaceutical right prescription. You
02:16:00
can't get a CPAT machine. But what you
02:16:01
can do is control the temperature. So
02:16:03
you might say to yourself, when would I
02:16:05
want to control the temperature for my
02:16:06
sleep? Well, if you were female and you
02:16:08
were 45 years old and you were going
02:16:10
through menopause, you really want to
02:16:12
control the temperature because hot
02:16:13
flashes might wake you up in the middle
02:16:15
of the night. Those types of things
02:16:16
become very, very important.
02:16:18
>> And how much does this cost?
02:16:19
>> So, this runs about a little over 2,000
02:16:22
US. Um, the nearest competitor is
02:16:25
significantly more expensive, almost a
02:16:26
third more expensive.
02:16:27
>> And are you affiliated with them in any
02:16:28
way?
02:16:29
>> I am affiliated with these guys. I am
02:16:30
their chief sleep officer.
02:16:32
>> Oh, nice. Didn't know that was the job
02:16:33
title.
02:16:34
>> I know. I didn't know. I made up the job
02:16:35
title myself. Thank you very much.
02:16:37
>> Okay. Is there anything else I should
02:16:38
know about the broader room that is
02:16:41
pertinent?
02:16:42
>> So when I talk about broader room
02:16:43
aspects, I think of the five senses. So
02:16:45
sight, sound, touch, taste, and smell,
02:16:48
right? So sight is light, right? So
02:16:51
clearly you want the lights down as
02:16:52
we're starting to get towards bed. Maybe
02:16:54
having a dimmer switch or something like
02:16:56
that is a great thing to slowly start to
02:16:58
do that or kept the overhead lights and
02:17:00
just have the bedside table lamps about
02:17:02
30 minutes before bed. Again, setting
02:17:04
the tone. The next one would be sound.
02:17:07
So, it's always better to be quiet, but
02:17:09
at the end of the day, sometimes you can
02:17:11
have that and sometimes you can't. It's
02:17:13
really about the emotionality that you
02:17:15
attach to the sound itself. If you get
02:17:17
annoyed by something, it's just going to
02:17:19
get worse and worse. But if you can
02:17:21
think in your head, hey, this isn't so
02:17:23
annoying anymore, it becomes less
02:17:25
problematic. But to be clear, certain
02:17:27
volume sounds and certain decibel levels
02:17:29
are going to wake you up. And so, you
02:17:30
really, it's hard to sleep next to a big
02:17:32
highway, right? So, you want to have as
02:17:34
much sound buffering as you possibly
02:17:37
can. So, we did sight, we did sound.
02:17:39
Let's do touch. Touch is temperature,
02:17:41
right? We talked about that. You want
02:17:42
the bedroom to be cool. If you can get
02:17:45
the get the um air conditioning on, but
02:17:47
let's say you've got the air
02:17:49
conditioning on, but it's super hot
02:17:50
summer and you're not fortunate enough
02:17:52
to have an Orion sitting underneath your
02:17:54
sheets. What do you do? Go out and buy a
02:17:56
plastic bottle of water, two of them.
02:17:58
Stick them in the freezer. Then put them
02:18:00
into socks and then put them on your
02:18:03
sides. Okay, so frozen water bottle
02:18:05
inside a pair of inside a sock that sits
02:18:07
on your side. It's like a mini air
02:18:09
conditioner underneath the covers. It
02:18:11
works like a charm. I use this when I
02:18:13
travel because a lot of times, you know,
02:18:15
the room you can't necessarily change
02:18:17
the thermostat or things like that and
02:18:19
it's a great way to be able to do that
02:18:21
kind of stuff. Then the final one is
02:18:22
smell. So, people always ask me, "Does
02:18:24
aroma therapy really work?" Believe it
02:18:26
or not, there are at least two
02:18:28
scientifically rigorous studies that
02:18:30
show that aroma therapy can actually be
02:18:31
helpful for you. But I want to be clear,
02:18:34
candles are not the way to do aroma
02:18:36
therapy. Fire and sleep do not mix.
02:18:39
Okay?
02:18:40
>> But a diffuser I'm fine with. Or a
02:18:42
little sache or a pillow mist. All of
02:18:45
those can be quite helpful. And you just
02:18:47
put them, you spray it on your pillow,
02:18:48
or you have it right next to your
02:18:49
pillow. And as you breathe in the aroma,
02:18:51
two aromomas have been shown to be
02:18:53
helpful for sleep. One is lavender.
02:18:55
Surprise, surprise. The other is called
02:18:56
elang elang. Um, that's one that's
02:18:59
actually got some data on it. And I
02:19:00
actually think I saw a study on vanilla.
02:19:02
>> And should I be sleeping naked?
02:19:04
>> Such a good question. So, here's what
02:19:05
I'll tell you is you thermorreulate
02:19:08
better with less clothing on. So, less
02:19:11
barriers allow your body to do exactly
02:19:12
what it should do. So, I would argue you
02:19:14
definitely could sleep naked. And I I
02:19:16
think there's an argument for sleeping
02:19:18
naked will allow you to sleep better and
02:19:20
thermorreulate better. However, be
02:19:22
careful because if you have animals in
02:19:25
the bed and you're sleeping naked, what
02:19:27
looks like a chew toy to them might be
02:19:29
important for you.
02:19:30
>> You're speaking from experience.
02:19:31
>> I'm just letting you know there's
02:19:33
problems out there. I'm not saying that
02:19:34
I had one of those problems myself.
02:19:37
>> Okay. I I think we've covered it, right?
02:19:40
>> Last one. Yeah.
02:19:41
>> Socks.
02:19:42
>> Oh, socks. Everybody wants to know,
02:19:44
should I wear socks to bed? So, here's
02:19:47
what's interesting is you dissipate heat
02:19:49
faster wearing uh with uh unsocked foot
02:19:52
because there's no hair on the bottom of
02:19:54
your feet. You ever notice when you're
02:19:55
hot at night and you stick your foot out
02:19:56
from under the covers, you instantly
02:19:58
cool down and everything's okay. So,
02:20:00
what I do for some of my patients who
02:20:02
have thermmorreulation issues, I have
02:20:03
them start with socks but no clothes and
02:20:05
then they can remove their socks
02:20:07
afterwards as they start to get too
02:20:08
warm.
02:20:09
>> Okay, let's go back upstairs and finish
02:20:10
this conversation.
02:20:11
important question to ask you.
02:20:13
>> So, I want to go back upstairs. Thank
02:20:14
you so much for that. Super, super
02:20:15
useful.
02:20:16
>> Sure.
02:20:18
>> Dr. Michael Bruce, we have a closing
02:20:20
tradition on this podcast where the last
02:20:22
guest leaves a question for the next
02:20:23
guest, not knowing who they're leaving
02:20:24
it for.
02:20:25
>> Oh, I didn't know this. This is awesome.
02:20:27
>> And the question that's been left for
02:20:28
you is, if you could have the power to
02:20:31
change one thing in the US healthare
02:20:33
system, what would it be and why?
02:20:37
>> What I would like to see happen, well,
02:20:39
there's two things. One is a wish and
02:20:41
one is I think a possible reality. So
02:20:44
the possible reality is I'd like to see
02:20:46
everybody in the United States get
02:20:48
tested for sleep apnnea. It's so
02:20:51
underdiagnosed. There's so many people
02:20:52
that are suffering from it. You saw the
02:20:54
statistics. I mean it's it's an
02:20:56
epidemic. So if I could have one thing
02:20:58
that happens in the US health care
02:21:00
system, it would be that somehow or
02:21:02
another somebody the powers that be say,
02:21:04
"Hey, you know what? We need to test
02:21:05
everybody for sleep disorders,
02:21:07
specifically sleep apnea." I think that
02:21:09
would be a great big wish that I would
02:21:11
have. The second wish, which I don't
02:21:12
know would would ever happen, but I'm
02:21:14
going to take my second wish anyway,
02:21:15
even though you didn't offer it, is I
02:21:17
want everybody to get a great night's
02:21:20
sleep, but I wanted to all be on the
02:21:22
same night.
02:21:24
I want everybody in the world to get a
02:21:26
really good night's sleep on the Can you
02:21:28
imagine what would happen the next day?
02:21:30
What if what if what if people actually
02:21:32
found peace in the waring nations
02:21:35
because they actually got a good night's
02:21:37
sleep? What do you think innovations
02:21:40
would happen with if we get some of the
02:21:42
smartest people in the world to just get
02:21:44
a good night's sleep? Like what about
02:21:46
charities? What about philanthropy? Like
02:21:48
every single thing that you do, you do
02:21:51
better with a good night's sleep.
02:21:53
Wouldn't it be cool if everybody got one
02:21:55
just for one night and see what happens?
02:21:57
>> Nine months later, there'd be a lot of
02:21:58
kids. There would be a lot of kids born
02:22:00
for sure.
02:22:02
>> That's so beautiful. Michael, thank you
02:22:03
so much for the work that you do. It's
02:22:04
so incredibly important because as the
02:22:06
numbers and the stats have shown, people
02:22:07
are struggling increasingly in the world
02:22:09
that we live. But through lifestyle
02:22:10
factors and the way that we work and all
02:22:12
these other factors we talked about with
02:22:14
this more than anything and for so many
02:22:15
people, it's the cause of so much
02:22:17
frustration. It is the thing furthest
02:22:19
upstream from a lot of the problems that
02:22:21
they struggle with in relationships, in
02:22:23
their work, in their sex life, and
02:22:24
everything in between. So having great
02:22:26
educators out in the world that help to
02:22:29
demystify this black box is so critical
02:22:31
and you're one of the very very best
02:22:33
I've ever met and in part because you're
02:22:34
so unbelievably engaging. You're a great
02:22:35
storyteller. You've you've been in the
02:22:38
field doing this with patients of wide
02:22:40
varieties but also you bring that
02:22:41
psychology element which is of quite
02:22:43
rare to people that talk about
02:22:45
>> the clinical side of sleep. You have
02:22:47
several great resources if people want
02:22:49
to continue to um learn more. I would
02:22:51
highly recommend um people if you've
02:22:54
gotten to this point in the
02:22:54
conversation, I would highly recommend
02:22:56
going over to your YouTube channel now
02:22:58
and watching some of your top videos
02:23:00
because I found them to be fascinating
02:23:02
and I learned so much more. We we
02:23:03
weren't able to go through everything
02:23:04
today, but if there's specific things
02:23:06
like waking up in the middle of the
02:23:07
night, um your videos about that have
02:23:10
six or seven million views over on your
02:23:11
channel and they're very very focused on
02:23:13
that subject. So, if there's specific
02:23:14
things that you felt weren't covered in
02:23:16
this conversation, right now go over to
02:23:18
Michael's channel. Um, it'll be linked
02:23:20
below and um, watch more there. But
02:23:23
also, if you're a reader and you love to
02:23:25
read and that's your thing, which I know
02:23:26
is great for sleep, two great books here
02:23:28
in front of me. The power of when,
02:23:30
discover your chronotype, and the best
02:23:31
time to eat, lunch, ask for a raise,
02:23:34
have sex, write a novel, take your meds,
02:23:35
and more. And also this book here,
02:23:38
Sleep, Drink, Breathe, which talks
02:23:41
broadly about the simple daily habits
02:23:42
for profound long-term health. Michael,
02:23:45
thank you.
02:23:46
>> Thank you. This has been so much fun. I
02:23:48
wasn't exactly sure what to expect, but
02:23:50
it was lovely. I really enjoyed it.
02:23:52
Everybody here is fantastic, and uh I
02:23:54
just want to wish everybody sweet
02:23:56
dreams. YouTube have this new crazy
02:23:58
algorithm where they know exactly what
02:24:00
video you would like to watch next based
02:24:02
on AI and all of your viewing behavior.
02:24:04
And the algorithm says that this video
02:24:07
is the perfect video for you. It's
02:24:09
different for everybody looking right
02:24:10
now. Check this video out and I bet you
02:24:12
you might love it.
