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i've been a therapist for 35 years i worked with millionaires and movie stars and i realized they have the same
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problem i just didn't feel enough britain's number one hypnotherapist the
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founder of rapid transformation therapy best-selling author marissa pierce people who are depressed have a very interesting belief one is there's no
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cure you know it's genetic and even if there was it wouldn't work for me can
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you change that belief very quickly yeah but you have to take a look at where did this happen how does one go about
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identifying which of these stories are the root cause well i think the first thing is
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you must also face some pretty heartbreaking cases tell me about one that comes to mind when i say that i
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think my saddest case was a boy of 14 whose father was hitting him with a belt nobody needs that
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oh just excuse me for one minute nice [Music]
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it's no one's job to make you feel good it's your job and if you give someone the job of making you feel good then
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guess what you give them the job of making you feel bad if you can give yourself the certainty you're looking
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for instead of looking for it somewhere else the shift isn't subtle it's profound
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so without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the direva ceo usa edition i hope nobody's
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listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself [Music]
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marissa first and foremost thank you for being here as you will know i'm a big fan of your work i included much of sort of
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something really pertinent that you'd said in my book as well i think that's how we kind of came became
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connected um you spend so long helping other people and understanding them
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i wanted to start today by understanding you a little bit okay i want to go right back i know that so i did a little bit
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of childhood psychology as well and that's this is why your work is particularly resonant with me but take
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me back to your childhood i read this this quote you'd said which i thought might be a good stage setter which was
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when i was growing up i struggled with the belief that i wasn't enough this belief followed me through my teens and right into my twenties
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yes certainly did so who was that child well you know i had an interesting
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childhood later someone in therapy said my god your childhood sounded absolutely crazy but it wasn't crazy but it was
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interesting i had a very beautiful mother who was deeply deeply unfulfilled beauty meant
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gave her nothing she she wasn't a woman who could stay at home and be a mother i had a father who was deeply deeply
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intellectual he was a head teacher and he loved his career and it was interesting watching this stranger my
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father loved his career he helped kids every day he gave my gave himself to my mother was totally unfulfilled always
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ill a little bit hysterical and i watched that and i remember thinking
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you know what you have to have a great job you've got to get a job that's compelling and engrossing because it
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protects you from the pain it wasn't if there's pain it was there's going to be pain my parents relationship was a car crash
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but if you've got an amazing career then you'll be okay so i always wanted something engrossing and fulfilling but
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my father was very interested in other people's children because they were easier to work with than his own so it
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was certainly an interesting life but i don't regret any of it because it gave me the
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ambition to also think wow you can help you my father's stories say helping people is what life is all about because
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it was for him he wasn't very good at helping my poor mother but that's okay
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so it was i know but there were lots of elements of my life that were strange so for instance i felt different i was the
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head teacher's daughter and i went to his school and i realized later that is the bane of
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people's lives to be different because we're all hardwired from birth to find connection
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and avoid rejection when you feel different then that can be really really strange but it
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made me understand human psychology very early on what it's like to be different what it's like to not fit in what it's
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like when it looks perfect on the outside it's not really like that on the inside
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so it stood me in very good stead i think my childhood was the perfect background to be a therapist
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and where did you in hindsight pick up the belief that you weren't enough
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yeah you know i remember being in my father's school and he actually was my history he wrote in my history book i
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think i was 11 i remember to this day he said oh this is amazing work i had no idea you're intelligent and i think he
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wrote that to please me but i was not pleased i'm ever thinking well my father doesn't even know who i am
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and so the not enoughness came from living with a father who was invested in
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other people's children living with a mother who was always in hospital living with a brother who was very
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clever went to pride both my sister and brother went to private school and i didn't because i wasn't the smart one
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and my sister was a cute little beautiful little baby my brother was the firstborn smart boy and i just felt like
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this thing this kind of freak if you like in the middle but now i'm glad about that because
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it gave me that that understanding but i did have one thing i had a grandmother
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who really believed in me thought i was a genius i remember thinking then that's actually all you need one person
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when i became a therapist i'd work with a lot of i always from the lost boys like 15 year
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old kids who were so angry and they they say no one believes me i said that's not true i believe in you
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and you can believe in you that's already two people and i've always believed that if you have one
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person to believe in you your life can be amazing so i always had my grandmother she lived 300 miles away but
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she really believed in me and at that age what did you want to do with your life did you have a hypothesis
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or a vision so i wanted to be an artist i was very good at art my daughter's now
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an amazing artist but i wanted to be an artist and i was like no no you can't be an artist you can't go to art school
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that's just for druggies and drop outs i still love illustrating and i was always writing stories which is quite funny now
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because i wrote stories my mother kept them all they were always about dysfunctional families
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and unhappy families and that was so interesting that i wrote that now of course
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i write i wrote that book's all about the stories of unhappy people so i always thought i'd be an artist and
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my father said you should be a teacher like me that would be amazing for you so i went to teach a training college you
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know i'd love to be a teacher but then i realized that i didn't want to be a teacher after all so
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i left that and went off to work for jane fonda here in la which was much
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more fun and i loved that i went fully into the diet weight loss fitness industry
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but even then i realized how abusive that industry is how cruel it is to
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people how it tells them that your worth is entirely judged on the number on the
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scales or the number on the tape measure and i saw working for jane that
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you know anorexia and bulimia mental illnesses body dysmorphic is a mental illness they were trying to cure it with
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aerobics and living on protein shakes and diet soups
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and so then i came across this wonderful guy called gil boy and he was a hypnotist and i trained with him and
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thought well this is amazing i've got all these people i'm teaching aerobics in the 80s it was a huge thing every day
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and my classes wore with anorexics bulimics body dysmorphics exercise
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compulsives orthorexics which are people who only eat clean organic food and i thought well i didn't even have to
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advertise for clients and i didn't and so then i had this amazing life teaching for jane during the day
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seeing clients in the evening but then i got so busy i had to actually stop working for her
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because i just couldn't cope with the um amount of clients that were coming through my door because i found
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something that really fixed eating disorders and that was such an amazing thing and you
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meet gil boyne when you girlboyne isn't it yeah girlborn when you got to l.a yeah and
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you talk about this individual being a really pivotal yeah he was a hypnotherapist yeah he was and what was
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it about him and what he taught you that stayed with you you know gil was one of the people i loved the most he broke all
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the rules he swore like a trooper he banged his fist on the table but he was deeply deeply religious believe that god
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worked through him he was just such a fascinating character because he was a street fighter from philadelphia
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who worked with sylvester stallone and hypnotized him to write rocky
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and realized he was onto something and then developed this amazing school teaching hypnotherapists and he so
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believed in it that he would guarantee that if he trained you and somebody sued you he would turn up in court and defend
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you and pay all the costs which stands different from phenomenal beliefs i trained with him
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and then i became a hypnotherapist and i loved it and then over time he did ask me at once if i wanted to as he got
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older and retired run his business by then i'd found my own method my own technique i always think that when you
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train to be a therapist any kind of therapist no matter how amazing your teacher is
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and i now teach amazing therapists but you have another teacher every client
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you see will teach you something profound and amazing so then my own clients became my teachers and taught me
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so much and they'd come back you know that one thing you did that changed my life that one thing you said oh my god
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that was a game changer so i started to collate the one thing which is different of course for every client they never
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all said the same thing and then collating the one thing that
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gave them a stunning turnaround i then created my own method which i called rapid
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transformational therapy people say but that's not right the words therapy and rapid don't go together why well
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it has to be long and painful who said that if i turned up i did turn up at er once
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i broke my arm and they didn't say well we've got to build a relationship of trust to heal
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you i didn't go to my dentist you know i've got an infection here they were well we need the trust you see
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and i always thought people in pain emotional pain is no different to physical pain if i've got a headache or a broken arm
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i've got irritable bowel or blushing i can't find love or i stutter
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that's really painful and i thought that therapy should be like going to the emergency room that we
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should offer immediate help so much of the um
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the underlying thesis about you know in your new book and i guess behind your rapid transformational therapy is this
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idea that there's stories that are within us that are yeah from our childhood or whatever and they are
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sometimes and often very stubborn stories so imagine as you've said the reason why people think it's hard for it to be rapid or
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quick is because those stories are so deeply ingrained and stubborn and etched into us
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and we make someone else's story our story my mom always wanted a boy i was
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the fourth girl my dad wanted me to go into the family law firm
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but i i wasn't smart and so i see two things a lot someone else's
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story my mum said don't even trust your own shadow but that's not your story that's someone
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else's story so the first problem is that we make somebody else's story my teacher said
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i'd never amount to anything it's that's not your story my teacher said that to me
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but that wasn't my story but the second thing that's even more painful are the lies we tell ourselves and
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the biggest lies i'm not enough i'm not lovable i don't matter and
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what happens with small children is they come into the world they don't actually have a lot of needs they need to feel
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safe loved significant they need to feel they matter but when
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you're a small child if your parents cannot meet those needs because they're alcoholics they're mentally ill
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they're doing three jobs they're a single parent they're stressed or whatever it is
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the child never stops loving them they immediately stop loving themselves if
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only i was better my mum wouldn't be crying if only i was good my dad wouldn't shout if only i was something
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my dad would see me at the weekends and once they buy into that oh it's my
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fault that becomes a lifelong sentence but it's very easy to unpick that by saying
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to us look you know you're looking at this through the filter of a five-year-old
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one of my clients told me that she was walking with her mother in ireland and her father's friend come and he said
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it's a disgrace that you haven't given your husband a son he'll never be a man you know because he doesn't have a son
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what a strange thing for him to say but this little girl heard that and thought oh i should have been a boy
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my i've caused both my parents this tremendous grief and then she became very masculine she worked as a fire
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officer in fact she was head of a fire crew and she wouldn't wear makeup she wouldn't let her husband put up a shelf
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she had very short hair and and that was okay except she said i feel very conflicted because i just can't be the
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person i want to be and i feel like i've got to do everything perfectly and my husband i
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have so many arguments that i want to drive the car i'll pack i'll carry everything
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and just going back to remember that scene was a real aha moment oh
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i heard something at five your husband will never be a man because he hasn't got a son that last child should have
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been a son but you see she interpreted it with the mind of a five-year-old
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at 35 take a look again and maybe understand that you were meant to be a girl your father was thrilled to
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be a girl and even if you wanted a boy somebody wanted you to be a girl so we see things
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with the filter of a child he's been on the planet for four years what do they know
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i'm not good enough i'm not lovable i i was a disappointment so
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looking at it again as an adult you get the chance to say oh i see
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i believed something then that felt true but it wasn't true can that change in beliefs be rapid
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though so say yeah in that case that can be a really rapid yeah i don't know if you read the case about ryan the
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alcoholic whose father rejected him because he was gay
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and he always felt so sad he attracted men that were abusive to him
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and when he when i had him have an imaginary conversation with his dad he said i feel inadequate
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when i had a gay son i just felt more inadequate it's not you it's me he began to realize that he wasn't a broken
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person at all but he had broken parenting and i think i said that to him ryan you're not broken but your
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parenting was broken you're not flawed but you had flawed parenting but there's a huge difference you are not flawed
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but your parents who were young and his mother got pregnant they weren't suited
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you had a flawed upbringing but there's a huge difference and then he was able to make his peace with that and stop
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drinking completely he's never had a drink since so if you think therapy is long it can be
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like that if you can look at a scene and reframing go oh
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i thought that but that wasn't even true then it becomes a game changer and it
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can take 21 days for the launch it can take 21 seconds if you can look at something oh i see i thought that
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but actually that was an incorrect thought and i can go back and correct an incorrect thought
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if at the um the crux of our lives and our behavior exists these like fundamental
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self stories we've told ourselves about ourselves about who we are and about where we our significance in the world
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etc how does one go about even identifying unless they have a wonderful
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therapist how do they go about identifying which of these stories are the um
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root cause of the symptoms they're seeing in their lives whether it's addiction depression anxiety whatever it might be
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well i think the first thing is is you know just start to observe your thoughts do you have those what i call limiting
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thoughts i'm not enough who's going to want me i'm not lovable no one cares about me
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and think about the thoughts and then ask yourself a question where did this thought come from no baby is okay don't
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look at me i'm naked i've got no teeth i've got milk so i've got these triple knees here and i'm not enough
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so what happened to that belief well someone chipped away at it a parent
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a relative a teacher somebody and because children are so suggestible
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it's very easy to make them think they're not enough but can you change that belief very
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quickly yeah but you have to take a look at where did this happen you know i never said well what's wrong
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with you i say what happened to they go well i was a perfectly normal weight until i was 11. and then what happened well i
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went to school i got bullied people started to make really weird sexual comments about my body and i just
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got fatter and fatter and then they never did that again so now we see oh so somehow what was
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happening had a role and a function and every thought you think isn't a thought it's a
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blueprint that your mind body and psyche work to make real i think if you take a thought
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you know for me i was always late as a kid for everything i missed the bus to school every day and as an adult i was
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always late if i had 10 hours to get somewhere i'd be i missed planes i missed appointments
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and one day i suddenly realized that when i was a kid and i missed the bus to school my father i'd have to walk home
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he'd be furious he wouldn't even speak would he get out the car and drive me in silence to my school's
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three-mile drive i never missed the bus coming home by the way then i thought oh of course i did that for attention
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but my father is now deeply proud of me and even if he wasn't i don't need that attention being like
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and it just stopped like that because i suddenly saw the role of it the job the function
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and many times if you can just ask yourself if this headache or this
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blushing or this asthma or this feeling had a job or was trying to help me what would
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it do and it's really amazing the answers that come up
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is that why you say um when you think about the sort of the core principle of rtt it says don't just
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treat the behavior treat the purpose the is always treat the purpose you see if someone what does that mean how do i
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make well let's imagine that you you binge on cakes or you're the kind of person when something goes wrong you you
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eat pizza or a cake or something and most of us go tell you what's wrong with that but i say hey what's right with it
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you're an alcoholic tell me what's good about that what do you mean well you keep going back to it and they go
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actually now you mention it it does give me comfort i can always depend on drink
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it takes away the pain i get comfortably numb i can come home and just block out or i
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can come home and eat five doughnuts and then i just go into this kind of soft horrific place
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and so i don't treat the symptom which is i'm eating cakes every day or drinking
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alcohol or binging on netflix i'm i'm using drugs i i treat what i call what
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lies beneath why are you doing that what does it give you when did you start that why do you think it helps you i worked
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with someone who was a chronic alcoholic when i talked to him he said you know i never saw my dad at 16 took me to the
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pub and he got me drunk and he went you're a man now and he began to take him to the pub every weekend and i thought this is great my dad
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likes because i'm a man and they had a very bonding time over beer and then the dad died and he
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continued drinking beer because he believed that he was bonding with his father even though he was dead
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and so what was right about drinking beer it has a memory that's how my dad bonded with me in the
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pub with his mates getting drunk and so when you see oh so the role of
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the drinking was to keep a memory going yeah but you can remember your dad he doesn't
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live in a pint of beer you can think of all the things you did do together and you don't need to drink and so it's
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it's coming to the realization that something that we hate if something you hate keeps coming back i keep dieting i
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always gain the weight back i've been to rehab eight times but i still keep drinking
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you got to stop treating the drinking and treat the cause of the drinking the
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role of the drinking the benefit of the drinking the purpose of the drinking and when you do that and get it right you
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can change it forever like with ryan who's never had a drink since he realized that
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he felt worthless because his father rejected him because he was gay and it starts with that awareness that
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you described yeah and which is i i think is such a difficult thing for some people for many reasons i think some
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people live in this kind of self-defense state where they they didn't they the awareness is too uncomfortable for
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them to even contemplate yeah you know i'm sure you've seen this in your practice but either people don't want to come yeah when they're there they don't
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want to go to certain places yeah in terms of they don't want to reveal certain things they'd rather just ignore
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opening that that box and live in you know a state of i don't
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know bliss naive bliss ignorance is bliss i mean this there's a story in there of a
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girl called terry who lost two babies died one at birth one at a few weeks and her two existed and one had a congenital
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heart defect and the first thing she said was don't take me back i don't want to revisit that pain and i
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said okay i won't i promise i won't so while my job is to take people back i
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call it being a good detective someone's turned up and said well i i don't know why i keep sabotaging i have
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no idea i guess i'm just messed up because i sabotage every relationship
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every job i get i procrastinate and i always get fired and i don't know why
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so i've shut myself away and i don't even want to look at that but you can still go back and find it out because in
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fact terry had a very functional all he knew how to do was keep repairing itself and she had a massive breakthrough just
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in a half an hour conversation because she understood that being numb
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[Music] it's like you can't not feel but she was living in a world of not feeling and it
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was exhausting so i always think what i do wears three different hats the first hat
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is michael being a good detective you're an investigator you never say what's wrong you say what happened
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why do you feel like that why do you want to change what would it look like to change
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i often say to people straight away tell me about your family i've got three says they're all great
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it's just me or they might get oh they're all messed up and then you know straight away that something's gone very wrong with his parenting or
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something's just gone wrong with this child so when you put your investigator hat on
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and you know a detective will lay out images and look at them and go look at that scene that's in that scene that scene and they work out
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what happened by looking at information and a good rtt therapist is the same we
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gather information you have lots of aha moments lots of ear
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prick up moments lots of things that come up that you think oh yeah i'm going to go
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here i'm going to go there and after you've done the investigating and found out usually in minutes
00:24:20
why that person is the way they are you then switch to almost being like a dentist extracting all that toxic stuff
00:24:27
removing it and finally become like a coder it's like someone who's upgrading
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someone's software and you code in and wiring and firing totally different beliefs but the skill
00:24:39
is doing it all at the same time many people go to therapy and just talk about what's wrong with me what's wrong with
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me i don't know maybe i can find out and others go and maybe just do suggestion therapy but
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let's give you a different belief but in fact you have to do all three seamlessly together because that's the
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perfect recipe for change i understand i can let that understanding go and at
00:25:06
the same time i'm going to put in something completely different you know the with all these um a lot of
00:25:12
the sort of mental health disorders you know depression anxiety etc there's been a
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lot said about the the recent and the just apparent increase in the amount of people reporting to
00:25:22
have these illnesses um do you believe that there has been an increase and if so what do you think has been the cause
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i yeah i would say there's definitely an increase in depression you know i've found in my experience it's only my
00:25:35
experience that the major cause of depression are a couple of things one are harsh hurtful critical words that we
00:25:42
say to ourselves on a regular basis that is guaranteed to make you depressed the second is
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being disconnected and we have an epidemic of disconnection because everyone is on their phone and their
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screen we worked from home in kobe some of us are still doing that
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we go to the store and we do a self-checkout we go to the bank and we check out with a machine so we are
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becoming disconnected and human beings are wired for connection not disconnection
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and the other thing i find as a massive cause of depression is failing to follow your heart's desire doing something
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because well the family expect it the pay is good it's a solid job so those three things i
00:26:24
think are the massive cause of depression on that on that first point about people telling themselves negative stories um
00:26:31
we'll all know people that are very self-disparaging is that and it's interesting because i
00:26:36
don't i mean they don't know where that originates from but i know so many people that are incredibly self disparate yeah the first thing they'll
00:26:42
say to you is oh i'm sorry i look bad today i know i messed that up i'm just a mess
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i always fail i'm so sorry you know they look in the mirror and they go oh my god look at me
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or they go i'm going to do this but it won't work where it comes from funnily enough is is
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our tribal need you know we're still inside tribal people and we need to connect with a group and
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so bragging i'm better than you i'm smarter than you i've got more than you is disconnecting
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and so people learn to connect by not having that tall poppy center we have to be the same you know children at school
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bond by being the same and i found many clients you know my parents were rich or dirt poor i was the
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only kid with glasses and i felt different like being the head teacher's daughter so it comes from there
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so it's a strange thing that a few 100 years ago a few hundred years ago and beyond
00:27:39
being negative actually saved your life looking for danger looking for snakes looking for
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lions looking for weird people you might do it because they believe it protects them from hurt and pain if they reject
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themselves first yes they reject themselves first no one's ever going to like me see i knew it and now it doesn't hurt but it really
00:27:58
hurts and so our job is to show people that no happiness is there you might as well
00:28:05
expect the best you know muhammad ali said i told myself i was the greatest before i even was
00:28:11
and then something amazing and i became the greatest he could have said i'm not much good me i'm useless really it's all
00:28:17
a fluke but he said i am the greatest long before he was
00:28:23
and that was so good for him because people think of him as undefeated which isn't true but that's the idea of him
00:28:29
because he told himself a better lie and if we could only all do that our
00:28:35
lives would be so much better mostly because the mind doesn't know or care if what you're telling it is
00:28:41
true or false or good or bad it just lets it all in it's like as you say you said uh you
00:28:48
know thoughts are actually blueprints and i was thinking about about them as like they are
00:28:53
code going into a sat nav yeah exactly if i tell myself i'm beautiful and i'm going to be successful
00:28:58
and i'm going to get married then my mind and my being will take me in that direction maybe even subconsciously
00:29:06
my actions will further me in that direction i will say yes to things that are conducive with that outcome um
00:29:12
and it really goes to show it doesn't it the power of um yeah as you say the limiting beliefs we tell ourselves
00:29:18
because we all say them i i've gone through my life telling myself that i'm really unorganized i know because yeah
00:29:23
because i grew up in a really unorganized home where my parents were over there so everything was just a mess yeah and i'm not wanted or i don't
00:29:28
matter you know i was working with a kid a couple of years ago who was in the chelsea junior team chelsea football
00:29:34
club and every day they're coaches you've got a 2 chance of getting into the main team
00:29:40
playing just two percent you've got to shape up but you see most kids when they hear that i think oh i got a 98 chance of
00:29:48
failing here two percent it's tiny i said listen you just got to say i'm in the two percent
00:29:54
someone else told me that their doctor said you have a 20 chance of surviving cancers that's great i'll go in i'm in
00:30:00
the 20 i'm in that 20 you might think that's foolish but
00:30:06
when you set your mind to something and look at being in the percentage that makes it actually your mind and body
00:30:13
start to work at a level that make you stay in that percentage if you do the opposite well i'm in the
00:30:19
percentage of failures the same thing happens your mind and body work to make you stay in that percentage because
00:30:26
the strongest force in humans is that we act in a way that totally matches how we define ourselves when you say i'm a
00:30:32
loser i'm a hot mess i'm a train wreck everything i touch doesn't work
00:30:38
if only we knew how we are making those thoughts real and how our mind's job is to actually
00:30:45
start making our thoughts real we'd probably stop them
00:30:50
but but it's not i guess it's not so easy just to make someone an optimist yeah that's true if we think
00:30:57
about the pessimists in our lives and i've i mean i've got friends that are pessimistic about
00:31:02
they it just seems to be their default and no matter i mean none of us in our friendship group are therapists but the
00:31:08
efforts we've gone to to try and make this individual not pessimistic in every situation
00:31:13
have never ever worked thinking about friend back home who always and used to work for me who
00:31:19
always defaults to just pessimism and everything's going wrong and whatever and i you know
00:31:26
yeah but then you have to ask them what if you say to them the same thing i say to alcoholics what's good about it
00:31:31
they'd say i'm never disappointed what's good about your pessimism yeah what's good about it if i said to my mother what's good about being a hypochondriac
00:31:38
she'd say well i get lots of attention i love being in hospital everyone's so worried about me people come to visit me
00:31:45
so you have to ask what's good about being a pessimistic and he'll say i don't let people down
00:31:52
people don't expect anything of me and so it's that expectation yeah and it's a little bit more than the thought
00:31:58
because if you imagine a snack i have to use my fingers to explain it that's the thought
00:32:03
and thought always comes first and then you think a thought when you think a thought you then feel a feeling
00:32:10
and then the feeling dictates how you act so imagine you thought of thought which is i'm not enough
00:32:15
the biggest cause of um issues in the western world is this not enoughness if
00:32:20
i thought i'm not enough and i went straight to the next ladder the next stage how would i feel if i
00:32:26
thought not enough i'd feel sad dejected demoralized maybe angry
00:32:32
maybe resentful maybe bitter so i've thought of thought i got some feelings that come with thinking the thought but
00:32:39
then what actions come from thinking that thought and feeling these feelings often no actions i don't take risks i
00:32:45
don't ask people out ask for promotion i'm actually angry and defensive so now
00:32:50
i've got actions and behaviors i'm angry i'm defensive i'm reclusive i'm a loser
00:32:56
i don't bother and then we justify it by going back because i'm not enough but if you switch that to i am enough and just
00:33:04
took out they're not go okay if i thought of jam enough if i said it even if i didn't believe it but said it said
00:33:09
it said it what would i feel well i might feel optimistic i might feel confident i
00:33:15
might feel reassured i might feel hopeful i might feel excited and then what thought actions would i
00:33:22
have well i would take some risks i'd i'd ask people out i'd ask for that promotion i'd follow my dreams i behaved
00:33:29
differently and i justify again it's like a loop thought feeling action behavior thought
00:33:36
so although it sounds very pollyanna oh you're just thinking great thoughts it's
00:33:41
much more than that because when you think a thought you feel a feeling and then you act on
00:33:47
that thought and feeling and you behave in a way that's linked to that thought and feeling and a lot of things so let's change the behavior stop drinking stop
00:33:55
smoking stop sabotaging stop procrastinating stop acting out
00:34:00
but the behavior is the last thing to change you have to go back and change the thought first
00:34:06
and then it's easy does the thought or that or like the underlying belief come from some kind of subjective evidence or
00:34:14
experience we've had in our life i always think about all my beliefs and i always think that they are all based on some whether right or wrong whether true
00:34:20
or false evidence so you know i struggled with relationships i've talked about that on this podcast
00:34:26
but i struggled with relationships and that meant that i was avoidant even if i was attracted to someone even if i pursued someone the minute they asked to
00:34:32
commit to me i would dissuade them and tell them all the reasons why we should not be together um and i and i look back
00:34:38
and and my childhood and really the evidence that was at the center of my belief was watching my parents screaming at each other every day really awfully
00:34:46
yeah this belief that my dad was in prison that i always had and i was trying to bail him out of prison from my mum screaming at him yeah so the way
00:34:52
that i viewed it was once i became aware of this faulty evidence i had in my life from my childhood honestly from writing
00:34:58
and doing this podcast it finally dawned on me where i'd learned what love and was and how identical the feeling i felt
00:35:04
about being imprisoned was similar to the seven of six-year-old steve looking at his dad being screamed
00:35:10
down so for me what i thought happened was i became aware and then the awareness of it
00:35:16
allowed me to not the trigger which would be someone asking me to be in a relationship with them no longer held enough power over me
00:35:24
which allowed me to get into a relationship to rewrite new year's because really you stop thinking the
00:35:30
thought that a relationship is a prison that's what it really goes back to you began to understand that you weren't
00:35:36
born with that thought you acquired it and anything you require you can release so you worked out oh i've been seeing
00:35:42
this with the filter of a six-year-old a six-year-old filter says a relationship is like prison especially
00:35:48
for a man but then you realized you weren't six and there's lots of other evidence that
00:35:54
says that's not true and you changed your thought you see when you question the belief you don't
00:35:59
believe it that's why in religion you may not question the priest or the abbot or the immense not allowed to do that
00:36:05
because we understand when you question a belief you begin to doubt it that's why people are deeply
00:36:11
religious never question it i know god exists how do you know i just know when you question a belief like when you see
00:36:18
your children my little girl saying mommy but how does father christmas get down how does the reindeer get down the
00:36:23
chimney they're that big and the chimney's that big and how can you get all around the world in one night and no
00:36:31
they're beginning to doubt which is a great thing so if you question a belief you introduce doubt
00:36:37
and that's what a great therapist does it says really oh are you always a failure
00:36:42
were you really meant to be an accountant to please your dad is that why you're here on the planet do you
00:36:48
really think that everything you touch fails do you really believe there's no one in the world that can love you do
00:36:54
you so when you start getting people to question beliefs you open up a little glimmer of oh
00:37:00
right yeah that doesn't have to be true and it doesn't have to be true for me and that's why it's important
00:37:06
which you did so eloquently you looked at the belief of a six-year-old and thought but that's not me one of the things i i
00:37:13
talk about in the book a lot is having clients say that's not me because and they have to justify why that isn't
00:37:19
them oh that kid that wore second-hand clothes and
00:37:24
mum was never there that isn't me i've got a wardrobe full of clothes i don't have to do that anymore but you know we
00:37:31
we play the only part we've ever known and then we make that part our own and
00:37:36
we don't even know that there's many other parts we could take on if we wanted to
00:37:43
even those beliefs that that that imprisonment belief that i had in relationships with prison i i felt it the power of that belief
00:37:50
didn't deteriorate over time good but i still believe that it's there somewhere and i that kind of makes me wonder if
00:37:58
those very sort of deeply held childhood beliefs ever really completely vanish or
00:38:04
if they are still capable of being triggered so for example if if i was in a relationship now
00:38:09
and my girlfriend started say shouting at me in the same way my dad shouted at my mum
00:38:14
i could very well see myself just getting up and leaving not shouting back just getting up and
00:38:19
leaving trying to like flee flee the jail and i i just wonder with these you know
00:38:25
even with your the clients that you have and the patients you see whether they really ever fully overcome
00:38:31
i think a lot of them do i think it's a work in progress it's about you look to that little boy who said
00:38:37
relationships are prison and you realize that was a statement that for you as a statement of truth it wasn't a question
00:38:44
it was a statement and then what you have to do is start making a different statement the mind learns by repetition
00:38:51
relationships are wonderful people say to me marriage is such hard work i'm like i don't think so i found it hard
00:38:57
being single i got the flu i got to get out of bed go to the pharmacist myself make myself some soup in a marriage in a
00:39:04
relationship someone else said hey i'll get that i'll do that let me do that so
00:39:10
you question the belief that you have it then you have to also change it and you have to keep repeating
00:39:17
the changes you know i worked with somebody once who said i have no coping skills my mother was
00:39:23
hypersensitive to lighter noise i couldn't open a packet of potato chips without her going mental
00:39:29
we never went to the cinema or the swimming pool or the beach she didn't like light she didn't like noise she
00:39:35
didn't like people and then she said and i have no coping skills and i made her say i want you to
00:39:40
say i have phenomenal coping skills and so she had to say that every day she didn't believe it but she said you know
00:39:45
it's amazing i say that every day and i've become this person who feels she can cope with
00:39:51
anything so you have to look at your question your statement
00:39:56
and just change it i don't matter i matter i'm insignificant i'm signing i'm not lovable i am lovable i'm not enough
00:40:03
i've always been enough and if every person in the world could wake up and just say i matter i'm significant i'm enough and
00:40:12
i'm lovable that would change my i know that to be true because i've got many anti-bullying
00:40:17
programs in schools all of them they all say the same thing all the kids say they're dumb enough they've made a little plaque for their
00:40:23
desk and bullying has almost disappeared in this school just from those simple statements
00:40:30
because bullies don't feel enough it isn't enough to work with a bully child you must work with a kid who's doing the
00:40:36
bullying what's going on with them nobody says oh my life is so great so wonderful who can i bully today i'm
00:40:43
having a great time i think i'll go off and troll somebody so we know that
00:40:49
they're not enough this is the core of so many of our beliefs but since the mind doesn't know or care what
00:40:56
you're saying if you switch i'm not enough to i am enough the shift isn't subtle it's profound
00:41:05
just the subtlety of words you seem to um assert that it makes a tremendous
00:41:10
difference just one word that we use just one word because we go through our lives saying things so we go through life i'll say like you know i'm not
00:41:16
organized or i'll say i can't do that um you know and a lot of the time the truth is i probably could but
00:41:23
if we're in this culture of just the flippancy of words where we say i can't that's not me i'm not that person i am this these kind
00:41:30
of like binary definitive statements are they dangerous yeah when you say somehow they go not
00:41:37
bad i'm all right how was your weekend not bad so they they're really minimizing anything
00:41:43
that's good and i think you have to turn it right up but often the one word many years ago one of
00:41:50
my clients said i wish you'd see my mother she has a hell of a life with my dad he hits her he's aggressive but
00:41:55
she's very invested in you know the front of a marita in came this sweet little old lady
00:42:01
and she kept talking about her husband saying he's a good husband said but he's not a good husband darling he's a good provider i want you to switch the word
00:42:07
husband to provider because he hits you he's abusive he diminishes you that's not a good husband
00:42:13
but he is a good provider i know that's important you've got a nice home three kids you went all left so she
00:42:20
began to say he's a good provider she said you know it's amazing i went home within three months i divorced him because i thought oh well i don't need
00:42:25
to be with a provider i've already got this house i've got my pension so for her that one word
00:42:32
he's only been a good provider in my entire marriage and he's actually hurt me a lot and do i need him to provide
00:42:38
i've got a pension i've got a house i've got friends i got my children he can't provide anything i can't provide myself
00:42:44
she's not a good husband at all and so for her just taking off the blinkers and having someone tell her the truth
00:42:50
that's not love isn't that crazy love doesn't hurt like that people say oh my boyfriend loves me so much he hits me
00:42:57
that's not love you may believe it's love it's passion it's not love my dad
00:43:04
hits me because i don't behave that's not love and often you have to educate
00:43:10
people in a very nice way and change one word i'm useless no you're smart
00:43:16
i don't matter you matter a great deal and going back again to all these teenage kids who say no one loves me i
00:43:24
don't matter i go look if your life was a clock you're talking about the first five minutes of the clock the first five
00:43:31
minutes is horrible but you've got the whole rest of the clock to have an amazing life you know you this is your
00:43:36
life today but it's not your life your life today is you're being bullied at school your parents don't seem to care
00:43:44
and no one's there and that's horrible for you but and that is your life but it's not your life
00:43:49
your life's going to be amazing and then you have to help them stand up to bullies and believe they matter and not
00:43:56
tolerate it but it all starts again you know there's a great song called it started with a kiss but nothing starts
00:44:03
it starts with a thought about a kiss everything goes back to a thought and if you can keep peeling back to the thought
00:44:09
like your thought marriage is prison then you think but i have the power to change that thought at any stage no
00:44:16
matter how long down the line is if you change the thought
00:44:21
you change everything because the law of control begins with thoughts you can't control the weather or the traffic you
00:44:28
can't even control your body you'd never get a cold but you can always control your thoughts and when you control your
00:44:33
thoughts it changes your whole life and i know it sounds easy or simple but that's because
00:44:38
it is simple you know i've been doing this five day challenge in schools and it's
00:44:44
called the i can't to i can and it's just five days where every day these children go from i can't do i can
00:44:51
they have an imaginary cheerleader that does somersaults and bangs symbols and cheers them on and they've all said
00:44:58
it's made such a difference because they realize they can that when you say i can't what if nobody
00:45:03
likes you what if i fail what if i get it wrong well you might but you also
00:45:09
might get it right and if you get it wrong you've learned something you know you you can if you never make a mistake
00:45:15
you've never made anything because the only way you can learn is often by getting it wrong you think oh i tried
00:45:21
that i didn't like it i never want to do that again we're now playing in a world where the
00:45:26
digital landscape is changing every single day and to succeed as a small business the most important thing you
00:45:32
can do is stay informed with the latest trends and that's why i've partnered with vodafone business they genuinely
00:45:39
want to help small businesses like you navigate this fast moving space they've
00:45:44
developed the v hub a site containing everything you need to get up to speed with what's going on and you can even
00:45:50
ring up a vhub digital advisor for completely free and have a one-on-one conversation with them about your
00:45:56
business if you haven't checked out the v hub i'd highly recommend you do so as it will help your business navigate the
00:46:02
changing landscape and keep you on the front foot so go to vhub by vodafone you
00:46:07
can search that anywhere on google and check it out now being a therapist and speaking to
00:46:13
a wide variety of people you must also face some pretty heartbreaking
00:46:18
outcomes and cases tell me about one that comes to mind when i say that i think my saddest case was a
00:46:25
boy of 14 his father was very physical with him but he lived with a mother
00:46:31
and he didn't have any skills to handle that so he became very violent at school and
00:46:36
was being expelled and when i saw him i said darling your dad's not allowed to put his hands on
00:46:41
you you know that he said but i can't answer but you can stop him you have to so he practiced rehearsing a lot that he
00:46:47
would say to his dad you may not put your hands on me and then i said i think you have to not
00:46:52
see him for a little while and then the mother said but he needs a dad i said well not like that that's hitting him
00:46:58
with a belt nobody needs that and he does need a dad but he needs a dad that respects him so we had to all have this
00:47:06
little family conversation that they were going to go home and ring him and so i can't see you until you get help
00:47:12
and the father was so childish he smashed up his xbox and dumped it in the garden
00:47:17
but he didn't see me stood his ground and then the father wanted to see him and i said you know every time you must
00:47:22
say to me can i put your hands in if you do i can't stop you when i leave i will
00:47:28
call the police because i gotta get you some help you you can't be like this and actually was amazing i
00:47:34
did feel sorry for that kid because the father was so dismissive but eventually the father realized that the only way he
00:47:40
could see him was to stop being violent because
00:47:45
i had to give this little boy the power you're only 14 but you're smarter than your dad you're more educated than your
00:47:52
dad you're more grown up and your dad is a child and you have to be the man here and say
00:47:57
i won't let you hit me because it's damaging for you as well as me and often with kids it's giving them a
00:48:03
voice giving them the power to say no when someone is abusing them molesting
00:48:09
them taking their lunch money you know and that's often the case so
00:48:15
many kids just don't have the power to say no because when they said they said don't
00:48:21
you say no to me when people say to me my kid's so annoying i said that's how they learn i mean my kid argued with me
00:48:27
all the time and i always think i'm secretly rather pleased that she could stand up for
00:48:32
herself and defend herself and wasn't a yes person and we forget when we won't let our kids
00:48:39
have a say they go into the world and they don't know how to have a say and that's a terrible injustice for them
00:48:47
i was reading in your book about children and just more broadly about the
00:48:52
the um some of the mistakes parents make when they're raising children and one of them as you kind of cited earlier was about
00:48:58
um telling them not to feel things right so if you fall over don't cry don't cry be a big boy stop
00:49:06
being a baby that's definitely what i had planned to do with my kids yeah tell me why i'm wrong
00:49:11
yeah you know i i said to my girl but don't don't be a base because mummy i am a baby and i thought my god she's so
00:49:16
smart she is a baby because she was my teacher and then i remembered to say to when she hurt her leg oh
00:49:23
that really hurt didn't it ouch that hurt she goes yes mommy it hurt but then she'd be okay but when you said don't
00:49:28
cry you're a big girl now that didn't hurt stop making a fuss what you're saying is don't feel your feelings
00:49:35
swallow them push them down pretend you're okay put on a happy face and if you'll walk through the world and say
00:49:42
well i can't tell anyone what i'm feeling because we've trained them in the same way we train kids to finish
00:49:48
everything on their plate one of the best gifts you can give your children is letting them feel you know
00:49:55
that hurt you're a great kid but today you're being really mean she says what's going
00:50:01
on and then let's say you said she was my favorite years ago i took my little daughter we were lambing and she pushed my nipple
00:50:08
and pushed him off a haystack and my brother was very crossed i said why did you do that she said you said he was your favorite i said no
00:50:14
said he was my favorite nephew you're my favorite you'll always be my favorite he's my favorite nephew and you cannot
00:50:20
do that and you have to go and apologize and she did but i was really quite pleased that i
00:50:26
was able to say what just happened then you can't always do that sometimes you have to intervene but
00:50:33
good kids do bad things smart kids do stupid things and rather than saying you're so annoying or naughty or bad you
00:50:41
say what's going on what made why did you just do that and they'll tell you something that you
00:50:46
would never expect and then then they feel safe sharing what's going
00:50:51
on and it you you children need you to be their safe place they need to come to you and say hey my friend's taking drugs my
00:50:59
little homage to his mum my friend's brother we went out and he's much bigger and he was stealing
00:51:04
all these baseball hats and he made me wear i didn't want to wear one i said oh that's your feelings telling you it's
00:51:10
wrong you must always listen to those feelings and when that happens again you must say
00:51:15
my i don't feel i can wear that baseball hat and so
00:51:20
i was very pleased that she come in and tell me stuff about drugs and sex and shoplifting and some of this literally
00:51:27
your eyes literally pop out on stalks but you have to not judge your kids it's it's very
00:51:32
easy to say not so easy to do but you just have to take a deep breath even if you know the
00:51:38
time and ask them what's going on there's something that i i sort of
00:51:44
garnered from all of that which i'm i think is really applicable to business and generally like leadership and i guess friendship as well which was
00:51:50
typically we we come with answers and we come with statements whereas the approach you seem to take
00:51:56
even with your your daughter there is much more question-centric it's asking questions and being kind of
00:52:03
removed from having a bias or presumption so and i was thinking about that from a leadership perspective if you when there's an issue in your
00:52:09
business with with an employee or something instead of coming with statements and presumptions
00:52:15
it's probably wiser to come with a question at first yeah what's going on i was like said that to my pa there they didn't i just
00:52:21
am overwhelmed by something in my personal life so when you can say something you know what's going on or
00:52:28
yeah it's it's easier you know i was meeting my daughter in london recently i hadn't seen her for ages i
00:52:34
was so excited she turned up at this restaurant she was in a really bad mood and i said do you wanna and i don't like that do you want to go no i hate that
00:52:40
and and i i'm i felt like saying you know what i'm just gonna go home i don't know why i've come here but i just said
00:52:45
well anything you know i don't like anything here and then i said well let's order a coffee so she and then she says mommy
00:52:52
i'm so glad that you understand me because it's not you i've had a big fight with someone and i'm in such a bad temper
00:52:57
and i was just being really defensive and i felt great too because i learned to not think
00:53:03
how dare she talk to me like that i might as well go home i thought oh something's going on with her why don't i just sit here
00:53:09
drink my own coffee and just wait for her to work it out so if you can sit with someone and not judge them
00:53:16
and say i mean everything officers didn't want it but i just left that
00:53:21
then usually they'll tell you what's wrong but you can't interrogate people and sometimes you just have to give them
00:53:28
a little while to come around but i think when you stop judging people
00:53:34
which isn't always easy [Music] amazing when you have a workforce that mess up or
00:53:40
a super defensive you you know try that so this is going to try a little tenderness because you get much better
00:53:47
results you know my husband and i have this great thing where i say oh what's the story you're telling
00:53:53
yourself one day we were driving in the car and i think i was driving and he was on
00:53:58
his phone i was talking he wasn't listening i talked again and i went oh i'm telling myself a story here that
00:54:04
you're not interested in anything i have to say and he went oh that's really funny because i'm telling myself a story
00:54:09
that you're annoying me because i've just got a message from our accountant saying our our account's been hacked and
00:54:15
i'm feeling really panicking and i'm looking at this message and you're yeah yeah so we both i'm telling myself a
00:54:21
story that you're not allowing me space to read this very important message now my story is
00:54:27
you're not listening but i told that on a podcast and this girl wrote and she said well he was wrong he was definitely
00:54:32
having an affair because banks don't write to say being hacked in fact
00:54:38
it was our accountant that sent him a text saying you've been hacked but that was so funny because there was
00:54:43
a third story in there someone else's story which was oh he's definitely cheating on you because
00:54:49
and so i thought that was so funny that didn't upset me because we all tell ourselves the story you don't love me
00:54:54
anymore you forgot my birthday you don't give me the attention you used to
00:55:00
you're not interested in me the significant shift there as well is responsibility yeah you're even in the
00:55:06
car example like i s it sounds like a conversation i had with my girlfriend recently where i was trying to do
00:55:12
something and she tries telling me something i'm going through a crisis on my phone
00:55:17
and i'm telling myself that she doesn't understand my world and she's whatever and she's telling herself that i'm i
00:55:23
never listen to her and she's saying important things thankfully because i i'm in a slightly
00:55:29
more mature phase of my life we're able to have the conversation yeah as you've described where i'd say this is how i
00:55:34
felt and i was telling myself this yeah you know but a lot of people don't do that blame
00:55:40
is much feels much easier and it takes a certain type of maturity in person to even be able to take responsibility
00:55:48
in the first place i tend to believe that people who are who have i don't know if this is accurate it's just a belief i have but
00:55:54
um that have like lower self-esteem are less capable of allowing themselves to look in the mirror and take
00:56:00
responsibility for things yeah they are the most like protective of yeah they're much more adept at blaming refusing to budge
00:56:08
because they believe that if you're right they're wrong it is easy to be defensive and blaming
00:56:15
and never admit you're wrong because we think being wrong means that we're weak you know it's why men will never say i'm
00:56:22
lost because if you're a hunter you are useless to the tribe if you say i'm lost i don't even know how to find my way
00:56:27
back and so it's the it's the fear of being wrong and but how
00:56:33
to get around and say listen here's the truth you're flawed i'm flawed the best we can ever be in the world
00:56:39
is two flawed people having a flawed relationship i call it being floorsome so if you can decide hey i like being
00:56:46
flawed you know i tell all my clients the unhappiest people i've ever worked with without a shadow of a doubt
00:56:52
are the ones who try to be perfect and they're always the loneliest too because they can never say they're wrong
00:56:59
it's always your fault you did it you made them but if you can't be wrong you're going
00:57:05
to be alone because the basis of all friendship is as we choose people who share our vulnerabilities if you
00:57:11
haven't got any then you also won't have any friends so it is a defensive mechanism to never
00:57:18
admit you're wrong it can very hard to say no i was wrong better to say i made a mistake i messed
00:57:23
up i didn't handle that very well i saw my husband's daughter once say you know i messed up death i was so proud of it
00:57:30
so i messed up that i didn't handle myself well at all really sorry but that p you go up in
00:57:35
someone's estimation when you can do that we all know when bill clinton apologized people liked him more yeah
00:57:42
they didn't they'd like him lesbians i didn't do anything wrong yeah so the fear of being wrong
00:57:48
creates a lot of problems especially in teenagers until we can say look even in the bible it says to er is human
00:57:55
to forgive is divine i always think to her as human but it feels divine so we have to not punishable for making
00:58:02
mistakes especially our own kids or partners say look yeah you did mess up but it's okay i'm glad you recognized that
00:58:10
and i felt like this when it all comes back again to can you
00:58:15
communicate and you have healthy self-esteem because people with healthy steam will say i was
00:58:22
wrong i made a mistake that was my error people with low self-esteem said no it was your
00:58:28
fault it was all your fault so true and i think that point about
00:58:33
how you go up in people's self-esteem when you take responsibility is so unbelievably true because that's what it
00:58:39
means responsibility means an ability to respond that's what it is it's an ability to respond and we want to have
00:58:45
an ability to respond better it's incredibly trust building as well isn't it when when you know that someone is
00:58:51
able to say like i'm responsible for that or i made a mistake here yeah it kind of
00:58:57
allows you to understand that they are self-analytical and that they can
00:59:02
um they can be left to yeah assess themselves and also some people just want to be heard when they
00:59:08
go to their mother and say you know you really hurt me they go well what about my life you know you had them and it
00:59:14
then they don't feel heard so when your kid or your husband or your wife comes in or your friend and says you really
00:59:20
hurt me when you forgot my birth they all forgot about how important that was or cancel the last minute you have to say
00:59:26
oh yeah i hear that i'm really sorry i heard even if you think they're being ridiculous you still have to i hear that
00:59:33
that hurt you and i'm sorry that hurt you because
00:59:38
being heard is so important to us when we feel heard we feel valuable and we feel significant
00:59:45
you know again our needs are to feel significant and worthy and enough so if you can hear someone you make them
00:59:52
feel significant and worthy enough and if you don't hear them go oh you're just being over dramatic you're overreacting
00:59:57
not that again why don't you just get over yourself then you don't feel significant you don't feel worthy and
01:00:04
you don't feel heard so we want to have higher self-esteem and if you can tell people oh yeah i can
01:00:12
hear how i upset you i really feel bad about that you're growing there's significance
01:00:18
and then when you can feel heard you feel more significant too so it's such a gift to give someone just hearing
01:00:25
them and even if it doesn't make sense to you still saying yeah i i get it you feel like that i'm really sorry
01:00:32
in your book when you're going through the case study of joe i believe it was you talking a lot about food and diet
01:00:37
yeah we all have the belief and even i do and i work out every day pretty much every day about six days a week and even i
01:00:44
know who i want to be in terms of my diet i know that i want to lose fat i know that i want to not eat the pringles
01:00:50
i'm very clear on this i think about it a lot but i still eat the pringles and i still have the chocolate and i still
01:00:57
don't seem to be able to live in accordance with what i know or at least what i say
01:01:03
um i want to do and also as you've articulately said we all know
01:01:09
what good food and bad food is but we still continue to make the wrong choices
01:01:15
but from an evolutionary point of view sugar is a good food you know if you were living thousands of years ago and
01:01:21
you're out on the prairie if you found honey or fruit it was probably going to be very safe and had a
01:01:27
lot of fructose and it would keep going if you found some lettuce that wouldn't be the same and bitter stuff was wanted
01:01:32
to poison you so we're actually a hard wired to prefer sugar because it gives us a lot of nutri a lot of calories
01:01:40
a lot of energy for something small whereas something else wouldn't do that
01:01:46
and our primitive brain still believes it will run out of sugar which is why no one says i've got that lettuce in the
01:01:52
fridge calling whenever that ben and jerry's that cake those cookies i keep going back for more and so it's very
01:01:59
hard to fight your primitive wiring you are hard watch remember where sugar is and finish it you're hardwired to eat
01:02:06
food when you see it because if the hunters came home with some
01:02:12
fish and you said i don't really fancy fish two days later you would be kicking yourself because you should have eaten
01:02:18
it when it was in front of you we're wired to be scared of hunger if you're scared of hunger you can't be rational
01:02:24
also wired to go for fat you know so pringles and potato chips are the new
01:02:30
cigarettes because we love the fat we love the crunch because we have stress receptors here that love biting and
01:02:37
crunching [Music] and so everything we think was wrong about food is actually from our minds
01:02:42
but no it's right you should eat when you seafood you should load up on calorific food because we lived in a
01:02:49
feast and famine for years but if you can understand it you can change it and
01:02:55
the whole diet industry is based on absolute abuse and self-hatred you know
01:03:00
we talk about punishing those pounds doing a punishing workout living on a shake diet or
01:03:07
powdered soup diet that just tastes disgusting we go to um groups where we get weighed and
01:03:14
shamed in front of people we talk about food as sins and we've had a naughty day
01:03:19
or i've been good i've been so good i haven't now been really bad i ate a cookie and
01:03:25
that that is why to make you feel like a massive massive failure even you saying
01:03:30
i shouldn't eat the pringles i shouldn't eat the chocolate you know the way you eat is only down to the pictures you
01:03:37
make in your head if the picture's right you eat is why vegans can't eat meat because the picture is wrong jewish people can't eat
01:03:44
pork because the picture is wrong so if you want to succeed you've got to maybe set fire to some pringles or
01:03:51
do something make some glue with jelly sweets and then when you make the picture different you'll never want to
01:03:57
eat it again but you can't succeed at that by beating yourself up
01:04:02
that's so very true the thing that stopped me drinking coke was watching a clip that someone had shared and it they
01:04:08
just boiled coke they showed the residue that was left behind and it looked like oil yeah and
01:04:14
this picture i have in my head now is that if i drink coke i'm putting this gloopy black oil in yeah and i'm scared
01:04:21
of that the way you feel about everything everything is down to only two things the pictures you make in
01:04:27
your head and the words you say to yourself and i think i've now trained thirteen thousand
01:04:33
therapists in rtt all over the world and they all say you know that that's such a condensing therapy into a moment
01:04:41
the way you feel is down to the pictures you make and the words you control which you are free to change i can't get on a
01:04:48
plane it's killing it's dangerous well actually the most dangerous part is the cab ride to the airport
01:04:53
it's a state of mind they feel free and so if you can just look at every
01:04:59
time you think of something or feel something think what are the pictures and words what am i saying
01:05:04
and if you can change them it changes everything and of course they are your words and pictures
01:05:10
i'm going on a date i might be rejected but i could be with someone amazing who just thinks i'm the most amazing thing
01:05:16
i'm going this i could fail but i could also get this amazing job of my dreams
01:05:21
we've all been told that human beings are very complicated and that the mind is very complex that it isn't it's very
01:05:28
simple you only have to know three things about your mind one is the way you feel about anything is down
01:05:33
to the pictures you make in your head and the words you say the second is that your mind is hardwired to keep returning
01:05:40
to what's familiar while running away from what's unfamiliar which and that's true but you can make anything you can put a bit of
01:05:47
silicone on your finger and shove it in your eye every day and it becomes so familiar but at first using lenses is
01:05:54
very unfamiliar but most important thing about the mind is that it does what it thinks you want
01:06:01
and you've got to sit down and think you know but what do i want i wanted tensions i've got a nervous twitch i
01:06:06
want attention i'm getting all these illnesses oh i see i should have sent said i want
01:06:12
positive attention for being really smart or really kind or really evolved so
01:06:20
really you don't need to study in human being you need to know those three things and if you know them and apply
01:06:25
them you can make sense of your life and everyone else lives but also you can make your life so much better by
01:06:32
thinking i can change the pictures i can take sugar out of my coffee and
01:06:37
make it familiar very quickly and if i tell my mind like a spice girl what i really really really want but i'm very
01:06:45
clear like you know i want more money well what's that 10 bucks i want
01:06:52
passionate relationship for how long a week so if you just keep always going back to those three things and and
01:06:58
looking at them you can have whatever you want once you can look at those three things
01:07:03
and make them work for you and not against you when i talked about the pringles there you talked about the
01:07:09
kind of this initial stage being that acceptance of understanding that this is my hard
01:07:14
wiring um and this is you know i'm not i'm not a bad human in fact i am a human
01:07:21
you're doing what nature wants you to do actually yeah and that acceptance is um you talk about it when you talk about
01:07:26
terry in your book when you're talking about dealing with hard feelings this triple a sort of process can you give me a little
01:07:32
bit of illumination on that yeah i love triple a i invented that a lot of things i invent is first of all makes it easy
01:07:39
for me but when i'm teaching therapists it's easy with everything triple a what does that mean it means
01:07:45
be aware of what you're feeling so this is a formula almost a three-step process for dealing with hard feelings so any
01:07:52
hard feelings or indeed any feelings don't even have to be hard um be aware of what you're feeling
01:07:58
and accept it that's the second people think what am i feeling i'm feeling jealous i shouldn't feel jealous i need
01:08:03
to eat a cake i'm feeling a feeling in my stomach the seat of all emotions and i
01:08:08
shouldn't really feel that feeling let me eat it drink it smoke it shop it netflix it but when you say i'm gonna be
01:08:15
aware i'm aware that i'm feeling incredibly jealous of someone else whose book is selling
01:08:21
more than mine oh i feel really jealous about that now i've got to accept it yeah i'm
01:08:26
feeling a little envious but you know what my book's doing good not as good as theirs but i got to accept it then i've
01:08:31
got to articulate it i got to say out loud i'm feeling really a little envious
01:08:37
about that paul mckenna got so much bigger numbers maybe you know paul deserves it he's worked really hard he's
01:08:44
not me i'm not here my books are different and if you can just do that triple a
01:08:49
always start with the awareness what am i feeling people say oh you shouldn't feel that you go well but my feelings
01:08:56
are the most real thing i have how can i not feel it i was having a conversation i said we
01:09:01
shouldn't feel that i'm like shouldn't feel it the feelings are re i can't not feel it it's like saying you
01:09:07
shouldn't be diabetic so first of all i'm feeling it and you can't tell me i
01:09:13
can't feel it because i'm feeling it so i'm aware i'm feeling it and i'm going to accept that i'm feeling it
01:09:21
and then i'm going to articulate right now i'm feeling this rage towards my boss who's
01:09:27
taken my idea and passed and i'm feeling this rage towards my sister or my partner because they're not listening to
01:09:34
me so i'm aware i accept i articulate but if you do those three it goes away
01:09:40
because feelings like children going hey notice me and if you don't notice and they regroup and become stronger when you eat your
01:09:47
feelings shop your feelings netflix or drink or drug your feelings they don't go away they regroup and come
01:09:55
back but when you feel them when you are aware of them and you accept them
01:10:00
and you articulate and they actually go away really quickly so many people come in and say i just feel
01:10:06
so angry so sad so frustrated so disappointed
01:10:11
well okay let's feel that right now and let's say it out loud and then then it will go
01:10:17
away and if only we all knew that it makes such a difference to our life you see it in men don't you men express
01:10:24
themselves the least and kill themselves the most yeah the highest suicide rate in the world
01:10:29
is young men and actually they always someone has always made them wrong it's always someone who's made them wrong
01:10:35
before they take that action someone has made them wrong wrong yeah someone has made them wrong someone else has been
01:10:40
right and they feel very wrong they've been dumb they've been rejected they've failed at some exam they've been humiliated
01:10:48
they feel wrong but yeah and and but they don't feel that they're allowed to have those
01:10:54
feelings you know men don't cry you're running like a girl stop being a big
01:11:00
girl's blouse we have all these expressions for men man up
01:11:05
and all they say is don't feel and and that's killing people not
01:11:10
feeling it's you know we've got people a glut of people taking antidepressants to be numb because they
01:11:16
don't want to feel and yet your feelings are the most real thing you have and they will do you an immense favor if you
01:11:23
tune into them sometimes you think you know what am i feeling actually i'm feeling really nervous i'm about to give a speech and
01:11:30
i'm feeling kind of nervous what can i do well i can remember that i always feel like that before a speech but i
01:11:35
always do them and in five minutes it will all pass it will be gone and i'm just talking myself into
01:11:41
it instead of talking myself out of it so i'm going to accept i feel nervous i'm aware of it and i'm going to say oh
01:11:47
yeah here's that old nervous feeling again actually it's adrenaline it's excitement
01:11:52
and i always get this and it's always gone you can always talk yourself into something or out of it
01:12:00
took yourself out of the negative into the positive ones it will change your entire life
01:12:06
incredibly incredibly inspiring and um i relate to a lot of that um we have a
01:12:11
um we have a closing tradition on this podcast okay where the previous guest writes the
01:12:17
question for the next guest okay how cool so the previous guest has written you a question they didn't know who they were writing it for
01:12:24
okay um i won't tell you who they are okay you're gonna have to riddle this one a
01:12:29
little bit but the question is are you experienced question mark
01:12:34
if so what did you learn and then they've done an asterisk at the bottom that says in the jimi hendrix
01:12:40
sense oh i lost love jimi hendrix are you experienced yeah i am experienced you
01:12:45
know people say to me but you're not a doctor you're not a psychology not a psychiatrist but i've been a therapist
01:12:52
for 35 years my entire adult life and i feel i am very experienced in
01:12:58
understanding human pain and what did i learn i learned that almost all my
01:13:03
clients pain comes from not believing they're enough it's why i have all these i'm enough braces why i created the i'm
01:13:10
enough movement because i worked with millionaires and olympic athletes and sports stars
01:13:15
and movie stars and i realized they have the same problems so what my experience taught me from
01:13:21
starting as a therapist working with you know everyday people school teachers and police officers and stay-at-home moms to
01:13:28
working with billionaires taught me that we're all the same and we all have the same core
01:13:35
issue i just don't feel enough but that isn't true but if you keep saying it it becomes
01:13:42
true because it feels true and so if we can just change those thoughts and feelings so my experience
01:13:48
taught me that therapy is not complicated and it taught me that this belief oh someone's got
01:13:54
depression that's very complex so the treatment's complex too no it isn't treatment
01:14:00
can be really fast and effective because it comes from again the not enoughness
01:14:05
it's so insidious but it's not even real but it's like saying my headache is psychosomatic that
01:14:11
doesn't mean it doesn't hurt it's just the same as a headache that's caused by an exposure to toxic fevers they both
01:14:18
hurt the same one is real one is psychosomatic but they feel the same
01:14:24
and so my experience taught me to treat people and to simplify simplify therapy
01:14:31
simplify the cure you know the word cure comes from the word curious and if you're curious
01:14:38
and if you treat every client as if they are fascinating and compelling and interesting you'll always unravel in
01:14:43
your curiosity i mean we're not allowed to say we cure people but still i love the fact that cure
01:14:50
comes from the word curious marissa thank you so much and thank you for writing such a brilliant book
01:14:56
the first time i've read a book like this that was centered around case studies of patients
01:15:01
because you're telling real stories um of patients and really dissecting them it's much easier to follow and to relate
01:15:08
to than if you were just like you know if it was a textbook because i read those textbooks in school the the
01:15:14
childhood psychology textbooks and psychology textbooks they were difficult yeah the diagrams and stuff but this
01:15:20
felt very very human and i think that's what made it yeah i wanted people to think i identify with terry i identify
01:15:26
with joe and if i see terry's story i can see my story and in terry's um
01:15:31
transformation i can see how to transform me because we all relate so exactly i wanted people to relate to it
01:15:38
and get the same benefit it's a very different approach but it's an incredibly powerful one and i think it's an incredibly important book for
01:15:43
everybody to read thank you as well because you know your your work influenced my my first book in a big way
01:15:49
and just the job when i saw that clip um going viral online where you talked about people not feeling like they're
01:15:55
enough it was exactly what i'd felt for my my whole childhood and it was really just an illuminating thing that allowed me to
01:16:02
behave in a different way and cure some of my own sort of um insecurities shall i say yeah thank you
01:16:08
so the simpleness of it was the people think if it's simple it can't be profound but the strength
01:16:14
often is in the very simplicity and it can be so profound so yeah it's always easy when it's simpler thank you i'm so
01:16:21
pleased and touched that i could help you not just me yeah many many millions yeah thank you
01:16:27
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