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Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!

February 02, 2026 / 02:46:14

This episode features Paul Rosolie, who discusses his experiences living in the Amazon rainforest, his work with indigenous tribes, and the importance of conservation. Key topics include the Amazon rainforest, indigenous tribes, conservation efforts, and personal transformation through adventure.

Paul shares his journey of living in the Amazon for over 20 years, where he befriended indigenous people and learned about their culture and the challenges they face from deforestation and illegal activities. He emphasizes the critical role the Amazon plays in global ecology, providing fresh water and oxygen.

The conversation touches on his encounters with uncontacted tribes and the significance of protecting their land. Paul recounts a harrowing experience of navigating a dangerous storm to make contact with these tribes, highlighting the urgency of conservation efforts.

Paul also reflects on mental health issues among youth today, contrasting his life in the jungle with modern society's challenges. He discusses the transformative power of nature and the importance of finding purpose in life.

Finally, Paul introduces his organization, Jungle Keepers, which aims to protect the Amazon rainforest by employing local communities as conservation rangers. He encourages listeners to support conservation efforts through donations.

TLDR

Paul Rosolie shares his Amazon experiences, conservation work, and the importance of protecting indigenous tribes and ecosystems.

Episode

2:46:14

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This Burmese python wants to know what is inside the diary of a CEO. >> Oh my god.

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>> Beautiful. Now, what are you feeling right now? >> Wondering why I do this for a living.

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>> Have you ever done a podcast with a 10-ft snake across the table before?

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>> No, this is my first. >> Awesome. And then we'll bring out the

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next friend. >> Don't bring it over here. >> Just don't move.

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>> Paul, what have you spent the last 20 years of your life doing? living out of

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a backpack in the Amazon rainforest barefoot with a machete to help the indigenous people save the Amazon

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whatever it takes which means crocodile bites snake very rare diseases hunted by

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the narot traffickers with a picture of that guy that scar is because he was shot in the head by a 7ft arrow while he

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was trying to make peaceful contact with the unconted tribes and this is actually

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a very important story I think I have a video of this >> yeah this is world first footage so

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tribe isolated so deep in the jungle that they've never heard of a spoon or the wheel or Jesus was coming out to

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make contact. So, we do a 2-day boat journey in one night through the worst thunderstorm I've ever seen. They were

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scared. We were scared because these tribes kill people all the time. And they had one question. How do we tell

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the bad guys from the good guys? You see, these people are being hunted by traffickers and gold miners and loggers

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and boxed in by deforestation. But if our oceans of rainforests are vanishing, life on Earth is not possible. Now, it's

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not too late, but we're the last generation that can save it. Paul, young kids are growing up attached to screens

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and loneliness is at an all-time high. Is there anything that you learned in those 15 years that a westerner like me

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would find useful? >> 100%. So, let's start with purpose. >> Listen, my my team gave me a script that

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they asked me to read, but I'm just going to ask you um in the nicest way I possibly can. Thank you first and

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foremost for choosing to subscribe to this channel. It is um it's been one of

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the most incredible crazy years of my life. I never could have imagined. had so many dreams in my life, but this was

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not one of them. And the very fact that these conversations have resonated with you and you've given me so much feedback

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is something I will always be appreciative of. And I almost carry away a sort of burden of uh responsibility to

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pay you back. And the favor I would like to ask from you today is to subscribe to

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the channel if you um would be so obliged. It's completely free to do that. Roughly about 47% of you that

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listen to this channel frequently currently don't subscribe to the channel. So if you're one of those

00:02:13

people, please come and join us. Hit the subscribe button. It's the single free

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thing you can do to make this channel better. And every subscriber sort of pays into this show and allows us to do

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things bigger and better and to push ourselves even more. And I will not let you down if you hit the subscribe

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button. I promise you. And if I do, please do unsubscribe, but I promise I won't. Thank you.

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Paul, you live an extraordinary life. A very atypical extraordinary life. What have you spent the last 20 years of your

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life doing? trying to find a way to explore the wildest parts of the Amazon and figure out a way to save them.

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>> The Amazon, for a lot of people that don't know anything about this part of

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the world, they'll they'll think of it as a bunch of trees where lots of wild

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animals live. What is the sort of central misunderstanding of the true nature of the Amazon?

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>> I think it's a it's a problem of scale. People don't understand the importance

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of the Amazon. This is one of the most crucial things on our planet. It's one

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of the most physically defining features of our planet. If you look at Earth from

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space, you see this giant green belt over most of South America. That's the Amazon rainforest, and that's where

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1ifth of our fresh water is contained, and another fifth of our oxygen is produced. This system is irreplaceably

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valuable to all life on Earth. >> And you live in the Amazon. >> For the last 20 years, I've lived mostly

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in the Amazon. I've slept more nights outdoors than I have in in my adult life

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because I befriended the indigenous people of the upper Amazon rainforest. And that's that's what the book is

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about. It's I went down there at 18 years old because I needed adventure. And then the quest for adventure led for

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this call to meaning. And then that led to the discovery that we were the only ones who could do anything to stop the

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bulldozers and the chainsaws from destroying the thing that we loved. A lot of people have clicked on this

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conversation for whatever reason. What are we going to talk about today that you think might be interesting to them

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in their lives and what is the wide variety of things from the conversations you have every single day that compels

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people cuz I want to give them a bit of a tlddr before we get into the detail. >> I think that what people are going to

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find and this is what I tried to write about was that I didn't know where I was

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going at first. I just knew what I loved. And so over the last 20 years, it's been following a dream in a

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direction. And that dream was finding a way to relieve the the incredible stress

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that I felt over the the state of the environment. We live in these times where people feel like the world is

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ending. There's nothing we can do. Our oceans are collapsing. The rainforests

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are vanishing. Elephants are being hunted to extinction. And I wanted to know, are there solutions to these

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problems? Is there a way to change the narrative of conservation and come up with an alternative reality where

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everything's okay? And do you think your message is more timely now than ever

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with everything that's going on with technology and AI and this sort of great

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transition we're in? >> I think that this message is timely now because whether we like it or not, we're

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alive at the most important moment in history. And the reason that that's true

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is because never before as a global society have we been all faced with the same problem. If our ecosystems

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collapse, life on Earth is not possible. And we are the last generation in history that's going to have a chance to

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restore those ecosystems. and those sacred cycles before it's too late. >> And as it relates to mental health,

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young kids are growing up attached to physical to screens and to technology and all these things. You've lived

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almost the opposite life. It appears for the last 20 years. I'm wondering if

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there's anything, you know, cuz you said today on your way here that you like

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didn't know how to get out of the Uber and >> Yeah. No, it was a it was a mess getting

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here. I almost got run over by a guy who recognized me and said and said, "Get

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out of the road, Anaconda guy." And then I'd never opened uh I guess I'd never

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opened a door with a button before, but I couldn't figure out how to get out of

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out of the Uber. And then uh I had I had a whole adventure in the bathroom that should have been filmed. Um but no, I

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mean I have lived uh we used to we call it the barefoot machete days. You know, a lot of my early learning in the Amazon

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took place under the toutelage of indigenous experts. And these are people that like JJ, who I meet when I first go

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down to the Amazon, he didn't have shoes until he was 13 years old. So he lived a

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life where if you want to fish, you have to go to the river. >> And if you want to eat, you have to go

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out into the forest, not to the supermarket. And so when you see kids today that are only using their thumbs,

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it's not too surprising when people are disconnected and disoriented and sort of

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don't know what's real and what's not real anymore. Because you go to the

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mountains and the rain and the sky and the rocks, we'll teach you what's real

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real quick and you all have to agree on it or else you'll die. And the jungle is

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the same thing. It's sort of when you find yourself with these chemical physical boundaries,

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life makes a lot more sense. >> Have you been able to make sense of the life that someone like me lives

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more because you've spent time in the Amazon? >> Like, do you look at us differently? I

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know that sounds like a crazy thing to say, >> but in the same way that people might

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look at the way you choose to live your life and say, "This is very, very strange." Do you look at people that,

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you know, like me that work seven days a week behind a screen and think that's a

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very strange life? >> I just know that I couldn't do it. I I I depend almost almost

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I'm so reliant on nature. I have to be around trees. I fall asleep to frogs. I

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I mean even even being in a city, I go seek out a place where there's a lot of

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trees. I am like a forest creature. If you take me out of my environment, I start to stress and die. And there's a

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part of me that yes, that starts to die if you keep me locked in concrete or if you were to if you were to relegate me

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to a a I was just in a hotel last week on the book tour and I realized nothing in the room with me was natural. The

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carpet, the table, the windows, the television, everything that was in this room with me was composite materials.

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And I couldn't even open the window to get to the outside air. And I it did occur to me. I said, I wonder if other

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people feel this type of of of societal claustrophobia where to me it's I have

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to have my feet in a river at some point. I have to I have to every night before I fall asleep, I have to look up.

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It's a ritual. I have to look up and and look at the stars. How else can you

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pray? And so for me, being in a city has become a very different reality to what

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I'm used I mean, just taking a shower. I mean, trust me, it's not as much fun

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standing in a cold tile box and spraying water on yourself as it is running through the jungle, diving into the

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river and swimming and the whole river rushing around you. It's a whole different experience. And so, when I

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come back, I get a little bit, you know, I miss my I miss the frogs and the birds

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and and sort of my neighbors of of of the jungle. >> Do you think there's like a collective

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delusion in terms of the way we live our lives? Do do you think we're we've gone

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a bit crazy? Kind of like the frog in the frying pan. It's happened so gradually, the sort of technological

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>> creep of our lives that, >> you know, and we're looking at young

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kids that are more anxious and depressed than ever before. Loneliness is at an all-time high.

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>> More people are taking anti-depressant medications than ever before. >> I think that yes is the simple answer to

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your question. That that that sort of we're a species perpet we're a fish

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perpetually out of water. that as humans because we've taken ourselves away from

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forests and away from deserts and away from mountains and the ocean. I mean, we used to be fishermen and we used to be

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farmers and and now the life that we live is so incredibly different than that. If you ask kids where does their

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meat come from, there are kids that will say the grocery store. You know, they don't know that chickens exist before

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it's in the package. And and so, you know, for for there was that generation,

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which I think that you and I are both a part of, where it was like we were the bicycle generation. We might be the last

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one where it was like you went out in the morning and you were on your bicycle or you were running around with your

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friends and you would come home for dinner and I was incredibly lucky to have, you know, on the weekends I would

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go to the woods. I would take a steak and I would take one match and I'd take

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my golden retriever and we would go get lost up the side of a mountain and uh we' just go camping. My rule was no

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shelter, one match, one stake dog. So you couldn't mess up the match. >> At what age?

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>> Uh I would say 12 or 14. I was doing this. I had a little, you know, hello

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hunting knife on my side. >> Not typical for a 12-year-old, >> but I needed it.

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>> Why? >> I don't know. I needed adventure. I think because being being stuck in a

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desk and being told you can't get up and you can't even go to the bathroom, and

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you you look down, do what we say, just being controlled was so counterintuitive

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to my essence. And so, I grew up with this need for adventure. And then somewhere along the way, the fact that I

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couldn't drink the streams that I was exploring or the fact that even when I

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was deep, deep, deep in the forest, I knew that if I really hiked for another 4 hours, I'll come out the other side. I

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wanted to experience wilderness. I wanted to experience wilderness where it never ended. I wanted to see the really

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wild places on the planet. And for some reason, that was inside me since I was very young.

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>> So, how did you go from there? from being that 13 year old to setting off at

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what 17 years old with your Amazon research in Peru. >> You did go to university. You

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>> you were actually really really smart. I I hear >> I was smart enough that they had me both

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suspended and in in detention and in American Mensa. I was I was I was really all over the place. And and the thing is

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they make you feel stupid when you can't do the assignments. So I'd say, 'Why are

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you failing math and why can't you read this book and you didn't do your

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homework? But I was like, I know I'm smart and in the forest I was good at tracking and I could survive and I could

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make it through a weekend and I could build shelter. And so I always just gravitated towards that. And so I spoke

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to my parents. I dropped out of high school. You can take your GED and get out two years early with a with a with a

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with a one-day test. And I did that. The rule was I did have to go to university.

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So, I had to start taking semesters, but in between semesters, I was free to go to the Amazon rainforest. And so, I

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booked the most remote position that I could at a place where it took 2 days by boat from the nearest city to get to

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this tiny little research station. And it was run by this Peruvian guy and his partner. And his name was JJ.

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And that's the guy that opened the Amazon for me. >> He opened the Amazon for you?

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>> Well, JJ grew up in the Amazon as an indigenous person. And so what he was

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learning, he the the first chapter in this book is called the rarest of species because he's the only unicorn in

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the Amazon rainforest. He's an indigenous person. So he's been learning from his grandfathers,

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grandfathers, grandfathers, grandfathers all the way back. >> And indigenous means

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>> indigenous means his family is from the jungle. Their heritage, their lineage

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going back, they are jungle people. They're from the Seaha tribe. And so his

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father, Don Santiago, there they knew the medicinal plants. They knew how to fish for piranha. Then he can cut a

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piece of callus off of his foot and put it on a hook using himself as bait to catch a bait fish. He can mash up a

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barbasco route and put it in a stream and then all the fish float to the surface. He can track a deer. He could

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track a jaguar. He could track a person. So these people know everything about the forest and they're the people that I

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came in with. And because I knew about snakes, he knew every He knew everything about the forest, the medicines, the

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habits of the animals, the systems. The only thing I knew was I said, "I know

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how to handle snakes." And he said, "I'm scared of snakes." And I said, "I could

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teach you snakes." I said, "You teach me everything else." And he goes, "You like

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snakes?" He goes, "Come with us." He said, "We go on a family hunting trip

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once a year where we go on this expedition 10 days into the jungle where no one's allowed to go, only people with

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indigenous status." He said, "You're our guest. You come with us." And so there I

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was going up the river into parts of the world that have yet to be named into the

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wildest places in the Amazon rainforest and learning from these guys through experience how to catch fish out of the

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river, how to navigate through difficult parts of the of the stream when the storms are coming, how to survive them.

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And then we found anacondas. And so it was like this I had this very very in unorthodox training and introduction

00:14:26

into the jungle. How big is the Amazon rainforest? Trying to get my head around the scale of it.

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>> I'm bad with numbers. What I do know is that it's larger than the lower 48

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states. >> Wow. >> It's it's absolutely tremendous. It's

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the largest contiguous rainforest on Earth. >> And are there parts of it that people

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have never been to? >> 100%. There are still parts of the Amazon rainforest that are unexplored.

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There's parts of the Amazon rainforest that no one's ever been to. And if you

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really want to blow your own mind, the canopy of the Amazon rainforest is about 150 160 ft up above our heads, which is

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far. >> And half of the life in a rainforest exists in the canopy. So you're talking

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about the most mega biodiverse biome that has ever existed. There's never been more terrestrial wildlife anywhere

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on Earth than in the Amazon rainforest. And right now in the entire fossil record, we we're at the apex, the climax

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community of the Amazon rainforest. It's that brilliant. Where the Andes, rainforest, cloud forests meet the

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lowland tropical Amazon. There it is. That's the most life we know of in the

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entire universe. >> And in terms of human life, >> Mhm. >> I hear there's lots of human life there

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that we've never contacted. >> There are various tribes living through

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the Western Amazon. And you have the Seaha and the Machenga and you have the Yin and and then further out beyond all

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of these there were always rumors that there were uncontacted tribes and and for the first many years that I

00:16:00

was there, it was always someone's uncle, someone's brother, someone's

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cousin would would come back with these crazy stories that someone had seen the tribes and that they were that they were

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tall and naked and they still hunted with bows and arrows and they would and then every now and And somebody would

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come back with a 7ft arrow, a spear tipped with bamboo, huge bamboo tip this big, razor sharp, like a machete. And

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that was the only proof we had that they existed until the day we met them. >> When did you meet them for the first

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time? So, in order to explain how we met them, we should probably explain why what

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where we got to in how the how the 18-year-old researcher became the director of of of a major organization.

00:16:51

But, >> please >> Okay. Well, some somewhere along the way as we as we

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as we did these expeditions through the Amazon and I became closer and closer with the indigenous people, you know, JJ

00:17:04

as a teacher kept telling me and that's and that's what the the first chapter of

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the book is about is, you know, him just teaching me the incredible interconnectedness. There's this there's

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this moment that I write about where he's going, "Look at this beach and tell

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me the news." And I said, "What?" And he said, "Yeah." He said, "Every day the

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ground is like last night's newspaper. It tells you what happened." So, I look

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at the beach and there's jaguar tracks and there's like a mess of jaguar tracks

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and some Jaguar scat and I made no sense of it. And he was like, "This is where

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she came yesterday to drink. That's where she pooped. This is where she came today to drink. You can see the

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newer tracks." And then he's like, "And what you didn't notice, you didn't see

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the vultures above us." And I look up and there's vultures above us. And he

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goes, "Notice they're not looking at us. They're looking at the jaguar." And so

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they're looking that way. Jaguar had a fresh deer kill. and had continually been eating and then coming to the river

00:17:54

to drink. And so he can decipher all of these incredible things. And so as he's

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taking me through these worlds of butterflies and interconnected species where there's a mist river flowing over

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the rainforest, this this avatar on Earth and then we then they burned it down. >> Who burned it down?

00:18:11

>> The loggers. And so the first time I saw ancient forest, a place that I love with trees

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significantly bigger than this room, vanished. There's this cacophony of life, this orchestra, this symphonic

00:18:27

roar of life that you get in the mo, especially in the morning in the Amazon. And then at night, there's the night

00:18:33

chorus. And when you hear that silenced, it's one of the most horrific things

00:18:38

that you can experience because places that we loved, trees that had been standing for a thousand years, species

00:18:44

that had never been described by science were all incinerated. And I said to JJ, I said, "How do we

00:18:52

this this this can't be allowed? This can't this can't possibly be something

00:18:56

that's permitted." And I said, "Isn't there somebody that we can call?" We

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were standing on the side of the river, and he he leaned forward. And he looked this way and he looked that way and he

00:19:03

goes, "Do you see anybody?" He goes, "Cuz I don't see anybody." He goes, "You

00:19:07

have to do something." I said, "I have to do something." I said, "I'm 19, 20

00:19:11

years old." I said, "What am I going to do?" I said, "I don't have a PhD. I

00:19:13

don't have a trust fund. I don't have a media presence. I don't have anything."

00:19:17

I had a machete and I had bare feet. We both had machetes and bare feet. And so that was the start of the journey where

00:19:22

we said, "The thing we love is being destroyed." We could see the smoke on

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the horizon. The trees that we had explored and become to love were laying smoldering on the ground in front of us.

00:19:32

And we said, "Okay, now we have to figure out a way to change the narrative. The wildest place on earth is

00:19:36

about to be destroyed, bulldozed, and burned. How do we save it?" And so that's where when you ask the question

00:19:43

of how does life in the jungle sort of translate to what your listeners are going to find interesting, it's taking

00:19:49

on a task that's so gigantic that at the start of it, we couldn't even come up

00:19:53

with we couldn't even conceptualize how it could be possible even with the right

00:19:57

tools >> to save the Amazon >> to save the Amazon rainforest, let alone

00:20:02

for two guys with zero qualifications, bare feet and machetes. And so we started behind zero and today we're at

00:20:10

the point where we've turned loggers and gold miners into conservation rangers.

00:20:14

We're protecting 130,000 acres of the river. We're on the cusp of creating a

00:20:19

national park. Me and JJ are the directors of Jungle Keepers and we're about to make history because we're

00:20:25

going to save the entire watershed and all the trees and animals and heartbeats that are left. And that's the story that

00:20:31

I'm trying to tell. That's the whole reason for my existence. That's why I

00:20:34

that's what I wake up and do every day. >> And you've really taken on that

00:20:38

responsibility in a very personal way. I can tell. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a point

00:20:43

where, you know, I remember cuz you grow up I was born in Brooklyn and then we you know, I grew up in Jersey for a

00:20:50

while and then we moved to the Hudson Valley. But when you start you start going to the Amazon for months and

00:20:56

months and months out of the year and you come back with scars and stories where a jaguar is breathing on your neck

00:21:02

and you you go out on a solo and you come back and then suddenly standing and making conversation at a barbecue feels

00:21:09

different. It's it's almost like I imagine I have a lot of veteran friends and sort of you

00:21:16

you almost get addicted to the action and then you also get addicted to the the the the team, you know. Uh Sebastian

00:21:22

Younger writes about this about the the addict the the the the need for community the tribe and sort of the the

00:21:30

mission and I think that that's one thing that people are missing today where they they they don't know you know

00:21:34

we've been disassociated from religion and community and and and immediate sort

00:21:39

of connection with other humans. And so then well then what else is there? How do how do you where where to what do you

00:21:45

more your existence? What do you what's your what's your purpose? What do you

00:21:50

wake up and do every day? And so I think, you know, in the old days it was like, you know, we have to we have to

00:21:54

defend ourselves from the outside world, from waring communities, you know, or even just providing for your family. We

00:22:00

have to bring water every day. We have to chop wood every day. We have to figure out how to survive. And like

00:22:05

today, I mean, when I'm here, I wake up and I go, "Well, there's there's water

00:22:10

in the fridge, so I don't have to do that." And I'm like, "The air

00:22:13

conditioner is on and the I'm like, I guess I'll check my phone, you know."

00:22:19

And so I, you know, I think we have, like you said, become somehow we've gone

00:22:24

really far away from what we are built for. And one of the beautiful things that

00:22:29

happens when you go into the wild, and this can be any wild, is that it starts to change you. And so you go into the

00:22:34

wild and you start picking up logs and throwing them. You start splitting firewood, and the first day you're going

00:22:39

to have calluses on your hands, but then after a few weeks, you're going to have

00:22:42

tough hands. You start walking barefoot, same thing. The sun starts to make your

00:22:46

skin thicker and tanner and more resilient and then the rain will hammer that home and you start to get your eyes

00:22:52

start to get sharper and you start to pay more attention to what you're hearing. And so you start going through

00:22:56

this whole transformation where you start to be almost become a different animal. You become the jungle version of

00:23:01

yourself. You become the mountain version of yourself. Your legs start to get strong again. And so so the wild

00:23:07

puts you through this gauntlet of transformation and you become connected to your environment. And then that

00:23:14

feeling of disassociation tends to alleviate a little bit. >> I heard about this particular part of

00:23:21

the brain that changes as well. You talked about transformation. >> Yeah. >> Um they discovered something not so many

00:23:28

years ago called the anterior midsulate cortex. >> Mhm. >> Andrew Hubman and I heard him say that

00:23:33

he thinks it was one of the most important discoveries in neuroscience of the last

00:23:38

>> century. The anterior mid-s singular cortex is a part of the brain sitting

00:23:42

between your emotional brain and your executive control center that essentially grows when you do hard

00:23:47

things. >> Not when you do things that um specifically when you do things that you

00:23:52

don't want to do but you do them anyway. So not running a marathon because you

00:23:56

enjoy it. Things you don't want to do and you do it anyway. And it went through some of the studies I saw said

00:24:01

that younger people that have been brought into this sort of doom scrolling generation have smaller ones. If you are

00:24:07

um obese, it's smaller. Um athletes have bigger ones and people who live longer

00:24:13

have even bigger ones. And it's they kind of call it like the muscle of the brain of doing hard things. And so when

00:24:17

you were talking about that physical transformation, I weirdly thought about I think it was Roosevelt who

00:24:22

>> after losing his mom and his wife on the same day. >> Yes. >> After his baby girl was born, he went

00:24:27

out to the Badlands and spent two years doing pretty much what you said, >> putting himself in intentional

00:24:33

discomfort. >> Yeah. and he came back and all of his friends described him as being

00:24:36

transformed. He went on to become the youngest president in American history. He got shot and carried on doing the

00:24:41

speech. He led the charge um uh I think it was the Spanish crusades or something

00:24:46

like the Spanish war. >> And the Rough Riders. >> Yeah, the Rough Riders. And they all

00:24:49

pointed at the moment when he went out to the Badlands. They said it shaped him into becoming a completely different

00:24:54

man. That that discomfort. >> Yeah, 100%. And and that's that's why

00:25:00

Native American cultures for the initiation of their young men would have vision quests where they would send them

00:25:05

out into the wilderness. And there's still different there's all different

00:25:08

types. Aboriginal cultures have similar things. And I wanted to put myself through that. And so I went out on

00:25:13

that's what I described in my first book is going out on that's where JJ taught

00:25:16

me enough to survive in the jungle. And then I started going out on 10day solos into place. I'd have people bring me to

00:25:23

the last place that had a name. Like I'm talking about poachers. And then I would

00:25:28

start hiking and I would go so deep in the Amazon rainforest that I was just off the map and I would try and survive

00:25:34

out there. And so I had a lot of adventures that I should not have survived. But it was very important to

00:25:39

me to put myself through that because I grew up with that discomfort. I grew up with the overwhelming crushing stress of

00:25:46

being told that we're at the end of days. We are losing I mean I saw it at the Bronx Zoo. They said, you know,

00:25:54

we're losing our rainforests. And they had the sound of the chainsaws and you

00:25:58

see the trees going over and they said we're losing elephants. You'd see

00:26:00

somebody shoot and the elephant goes over and they just said everything that you for me everything you love is being

00:26:07

destroyed and pretty soon we're not going to be able to drink and everything's going to be polluted and

00:26:10

our fisheries are being destroyed. And I said wait so wait a second. I said I have to know if it's really that bad. So

00:26:16

when I got old enough don't it's not just that I was inspired to go out on a

00:26:20

mission. And it was that I wanted to find out for myself cuz I'm I don't like

00:26:24

finding out through a screen. I don't I don't want other people filtering my

00:26:27

information. I wanted to find out for myself. Is it really that bad? And so I was going out on a quest to understand

00:26:34

what the reality was. >> If I sat 18-year-old you at this table, he sat there

00:26:41

>> and you know this version of you at what 37 >> 38 >> 38 you were sat there. So 20 years

00:26:46

difference. >> What would the notable differences be between these two men?

00:26:52

Um, well, he didn't know how to fish with his feet. Um, that's for sure. His

00:26:57

machete skills would be terrible. But the the noticeable difference would be that that 18-year-old, his greatest

00:27:03

dream was to alleviate the environmental stress that he grew up with, escape the

00:27:10

world of rules, find purpose in life, and to just have adventures. My my greatest dream was to see the Amazon

00:27:19

rainforest. I looked at people like Teddy Roosevelt and Jane Goodall and I said, "Man, they had such incredibly

00:27:26

like extraordinary lives." And I said, "How come my life can't be like that?

00:27:30

I'm over here in detention." You know, I'm over here being told I didn't do my

00:27:34

homework. And I'm like, "I want to chop wood and carry water. I want to go to

00:27:38

war. I want to be scared. I want to be challenged." And so for me it was I I

00:27:44

was that would be the difference is that I would be hungry for all of that. Whereas the person sitting across from

00:27:49

you today, my body is a Jackson Pollock painting of scars, crocodile bites, tiger bites,

00:27:57

infections, times that I've been almost crushed to death by elephants. I've been

00:28:01

hunted by the narot terrorists. And at this point, the responsibility at that kid got to see all the things he wanted

00:28:09

to see. We found the biggest anacondas. I lived through the amazing adventures and that's great.

00:28:15

The person sitting across from you today is responsible for protecting millions of animal lives. And my job is to

00:28:23

explain to people that we that everyone reading this message or listening to this message has the chance to help the

00:28:30

indigenous people save the Amazon before we lose it forever. And so that's the

00:28:35

main difference is that at that age I was just I just wanted some swashbuckling adventure. And now I found

00:28:41

that adventure became meaning. I found it along the way. And then now I'm on a

00:28:46

whole other journey. Now it's now it's can we bring it home? Now it's can we

00:28:50

achieve something that we thought was impossible and change the narrative of how it's done.

00:28:56

>> And I guess this kind of brings us back to this question about the unconted

00:29:01

tribes. You said you and JJ were talking about how you might go about saving the

00:29:06

Amazon. Was highlighting the unconted tribes in the Amazon part of the mission there?

00:29:13

>> No. Very much no. That's a great question because what we started doing

00:29:17

was we looked at this river basin and we said, "Okay, we we we love this this one

00:29:21

really wild river and now we said why why has this river been so wild?" You

00:29:26

know, so you think of the Amazon as a tree of rivers. You have the main Amazon channel and then all these millions of

00:29:32

branches. And so the upper Amazon, the uppermost branches of the Amazon rainforest, those tip tip tops, people

00:29:39

are only just getting to them now. You know, the main Amazon channel is a shipping port and then you have these

00:29:44

huge tributaries going off of it. And you can get in as far as Aquitos with a steam ship. Like you can go all the way

00:29:50

through Brazil thousands of miles and get all the way to Aikitos, Peru >> to the almost the back end of the

00:29:56

Amazon. >> I've been there. >> And and it's beautiful. >> We are at the southern edge in the

00:30:01

tributaries down there. There's one tributary. >> What's a tributary?

00:30:05

>> A tributary is is an offshoot from a larger river. >> So a stream is a tributary of a larger

00:30:10

stream which goes into, you know, then eventually you reach the Hudson River. >> And so this is a tiny little tributary.

00:30:17

And the we what we discovered is that the reason people hadn't developed this

00:30:22

tributary, the reason other indigenous communities hadn't formed was that for

00:30:28

hundreds and hundreds of years, this particular river had been protected by the violent, mysterious, Mashkopiro,

00:30:37

nomadic, uncontacted tribes. And that had kept it wild. They were the original jungle keepers, but by the time I got

00:30:44

there, there was sort of just a myth. And so they were something that they said they lived really far up river past

00:30:50

the last indigenous community. And I when I say indigenous community I mean people that we can talk to, people that

00:30:55

we can interface with that I can speak a little Spanish to and they'll understand

00:30:58

me. >> I think that's an important distinction. >> Yes. >> Because can you make that distinction

00:31:01

between indigenous and these tribes? >> Yes. So within Peru, you have Lima and

00:31:09

and you know Michelin star restaurants and all this amazing food and then you travel down to Cusco where you have

00:31:14

Machu Picchu and you have the Andes and all of that incredible culture and then you go down to the jungle and it's a

00:31:20

little bit like going to the back end of Alaska. That's where it's like you are

00:31:23

very far away from LA or New York like but it's the same country and out there

00:31:28

you'll reach these communities where they are indigenous and so in the reserve that we currently protect as

00:31:34

jungle keepers there's two indigenous communities there and we work with them

00:31:39

to sort of support them because as these loggers and narot traffickers and gold miners come in they see them as as a

00:31:46

mark they'll go in and say oh there's these helpless indigenous people how can

00:31:50

we exploit them >> how can we get their trees, their fish, they'll go and take those things from

00:31:56

them or they'll or they'll sell them something that's not worth what what

00:31:59

they think it is. And so we've been working with these indigenous communities to say, "Do you want the

00:32:03

loggers to come in and cut down all of your trees?" And they go, "No." And they

00:32:07

go, "But at the same time, we need a little bit of gasoline because what if

00:32:09

we're having a baby and we have to get our daughter to a hospital in town?" And

00:32:13

so we've been working with them to provide sustainable jobs as rangers protecting their own land. And it's such

00:32:19

a simple solution whereas otherwise they would go and be loggers to get that cash. And so we were working with these

00:32:26

communities and now they're rangers and boat drivers and guides and handymen.

00:32:32

And they called us about a year ago and they said something incredible is happening and it's going to be

00:32:38

dangerous, but you are the directors and you're part of this family and you're

00:32:41

part of this story and we need you here for this, but the tribes are about to come out of the forest.

00:32:48

And we were in town and where what you know what we do now is you know we and we can explain this later but we raise

00:32:53

money and we bring it to the Amazon where we the local people have the opportunity to set aside huge acreage of

00:32:59

of the Amazon to protect it. We're we're changing the narrative of destruction

00:33:02

where we just protect it before they get to it. And so we were in town with JJ who's now the director of this major

00:33:08

organization and we're talking to our lawyers and we're in the office and we

00:33:11

get this call that the tribe is out. >> The tribe is out. >> The tribe is out.

00:33:16

>> What does that mean? It means the mythical unconted tribe that when I arrived in Peru, the president of Peru

00:33:21

had been saying these are a myth. They don't exist and it's just it's the

00:33:25

boogeyman. It's been made up as a story to scare the loggers. So, their existence was contested. They were

00:33:32

almost on the fringes of imagination. >> Could we not have flown a plane over

00:33:37

there or something? Is that you know, this sounds like a dumb question, but presumably we have satellites and we can

00:33:42

zoom in. The BBC did do a piece where they were flying a plane and they were looking at

00:33:47

an unconted tribe from miles away and they said, "We're being very careful not to disturb

00:33:53

them, but there is a tribe in the rainforest that has no contact with the outside world." And you could see these

00:33:59

people bending and they're looking at the plane, but the plane's not close

00:34:01

enough to really scare them or to cause them any distress. And so, we have done that. But then on our river out in the

00:34:09

middle of nowhere where no one's heard of the BBC, you just hear stories from loggers

00:34:14

who've come down river from three weeks up river. You can go for three weeks up

00:34:18

the river and hit nothing. There's nothing human. It's like the last endless forest. And so when the

00:34:24

community called and they said there's arrows on the beach, the tribe is coming

00:34:29

out. It's the first time in 10 years that the tribe seems to be coming out of

00:34:32

the jungle to make contact. And so they got they got the directors of Jungle Keepers up there. We had to we had to

00:34:38

rush to be there. They begged us to be there so that we could see it because they were worried that we wouldn't

00:34:43

believe them. And so we got there and we went all night. And when you go up a river at

00:34:50

night, we do a two-day boat journey in one night. And so the guy right there, the picture

00:34:56

with the guy who has the scar on his forehead, that's Ignasio. He that scar is because he was shot in the head by a

00:35:02

7-ft arrow while he was trying to make peaceful contact with the unconted tribes. He was trying to give them a

00:35:07

gift and they got spooked and they scared and they shot him in the head and he almost died from that when we heard

00:35:14

that this was happening and he's now one of our best jungle keepers rangers. We

00:35:18

said, "Can you do a two-day boat journey in one night?" And he went, "Yes, sir."

00:35:22

and he put on a headlamp and he got in the back of the boat and we took an open top canoe and we drove from 6:00 p.m.

00:35:27

until 9:00 a.m. the next day through the worst thunderstorm I've ever seen. I was

00:35:32

on the front of the boat with a flashlight using the crocodile eyes, the Cayman eyes on the side of the river to

00:35:37

navigate cuz they shine. The eyes shine comes back. The the the storm was so bad

00:35:42

that I we couldn't see anything. We couldn't see the side of the river and

00:35:45

because of the light igniting the raindrops, you can't you can't even see

00:35:48

what's in front of you. So we were using the the croc eyes to to navigate where

00:35:52

the edges of the river was. So I was spotting and telling him which way to go and he drove and we did that all night

00:35:57

long. Got to the indigenous community and said, "Okay, so what's going on?"

00:36:01

And they said, "Oh yeah, they left. Tribe's gone." The only thing that they had was that

00:36:08

one guy the previous day had been shot by an arrow and he had been fishing and he had seen

00:36:15

the tribes. So he said, "And they had shot an arrow at him." The first thing

00:36:19

they had done was shot one of these 7-ft arrows at him and the way it had hit the

00:36:23

boat ricocheted and then hit his thick leather belt and blunted the tip of the arrow and he had the arrow.

00:36:32

And so he says, "So there are there are people here." And then a native

00:36:36

anthropologist from another region showed up and he said, "I they know me as the grandfather. I can speak to these

00:36:41

people. I speak a little bit of their language." And so we stayed another night, two days deep in the jungle. And

00:36:48

the following morning we said, "Okay, we're getting out of here. There's

00:36:51

obviously nothing here but, you know, stories and footprints and arrows and we have important work to do back in town."

00:36:57

>> And did you believe them? >> I've learned one thing working in the

00:37:00

Amazon. Always believe the locals. Always. There's there's if they say it's

00:37:06

there, they're not wrong. And that's part of the reason that I've gotten to

00:37:10

go on these adventures. You know, when JJ Tell told me there's places you can

00:37:14

go that are so wild that it's like the Galopagos. the animals don't know a

00:37:18

human, but you have to go for days on foot to the topmost reaches of the rivers to find this. Well, that's why I

00:37:24

went on these these solos. And so I write that's what that's as a writer

00:37:27

that's what I do is try and take people on these adventures through the Amazon.

00:37:31

And so when they said the tribe is coming, Ignasio, the guy who'd been shot in the head, he said, "Listen to me." He

00:37:36

said, "You're" He said, "You're my boss, right?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "I need

00:37:39

to speak to you like a friend." I said, "Speak, speak, speak." And he said,

00:37:43

"They're coming. You'd be an idiot to leave." And so we posted up, we waited.

00:37:48

How he knew? >> Yeah, I'm wondering how he knew. >> He just knew, man. They just know. It's

00:37:54

like they can they can tell. And then, you know, I mean, these are guys who know when there's a jaguar close by the

00:38:00

sound of the birds. They know when a storm's coming before the storm is audible. You know, they they have higher

00:38:06

tuned senses than we do. And and so he said, "Look, the tribe is coming. There's the arrow. They're in the

00:38:12

region." And he goes, "And when they come this close, they generally they

00:38:14

want to talk." And I said, "But this is" and sure enough, you hear Mosk go and

00:38:19

everyone starts screaming. And it was just this moment of absolute panic where women were lifting babies and chickens

00:38:25

are flying around and dogs and we're in this tiny little indigenous community on

00:38:28

the side of a river with hundreds and hundreds of miles of jungle around. And we run to the edge of this, you know,

00:38:33

the edge of the river where this cliff is. And across the river, we see them coming towards us. and they're walking

00:38:39

out of the jungle and they're naked from head to toe. They just have some string

00:38:43

tied around their waists, penises tied up to their bellies. They all have seven foot long bows and arrows and they're

00:38:49

crouched over and they're looking at us and we're standing there and you go

00:38:54

you sort of like you go I I just I I wanted I wanted to see this and now I'm

00:38:58

not so sure I want to be here cuz there are warriors coming out of the jungle and they're from a thousand years ago.

00:39:06

So I asked the anthropologist, I said, "They're like stone age people." And he

00:39:10

goes, "They don't have stones." He said, "They're still in the bamboo age." He

00:39:14

said, "These people are living such a primitive lifestyle. They're hunter

00:39:18

gatherers. And they've been isolated so deep in the jungle for so many centuries that it's

00:39:23

like a time capsule. So there was a thousand years between us. We're standing on either side of the river

00:39:28

with a thousand years between us. And this aperture into the history of what humankind used to look like. And these

00:39:34

people came out holding their bows and arrows that they had made out of the jungle and they held up their hands and

00:39:41

they were talking to us across a river. And it was sort of shirts versus skins. We were just two tribes separated by a

00:39:48

little bit of water and they wanted to communicate. >> With what language?

00:39:54

>> With their language. They I mean it's we don't even know really what to call

00:39:58

them. For a while they were calling them the Mashkapiro, which means the wild piro people. And then um more more

00:40:05

recently and partly because of our encounter they held up their hands and the first thing they said was no mole.

00:40:12

We are the brothers. Brothers and so then our side said the same thing. The anthropologist said no mole brothers.

00:40:19

And then this this this exchange began and it's like you know I as a Spanish

00:40:24

speaker when I've been in Italy I can use my Spanish to kind of get through in

00:40:28

in Italian. And I feel like it's like that the Yin people can speak to the Mashkapiro and it is an approximate

00:40:35

translation. And the first thing that they said after coming out of the jungle a thousand

00:40:40

years late to civilization was send us bananas. They said send us food. And they demanded that we send them

00:40:49

plantains as an offering. And our side said you put down your weapons. We will talk to you but we do not want this to

00:40:56

end violently. We want this to be peaceful. If you want to talk to us, put down your bow and arrows because a

00:41:02

shotgun, a shotgun only goes how many meters? You know, it's not even going to

00:41:06

go 100 meters, 50 m, maybe buckshot. A longbowow arrow is going to go 300 m. It's going to go far

00:41:16

>> and they're needless to say, they're very good with those arrows.

00:41:19

>> They are very good with those arrows. These things will fly. Um, and so even

00:41:23

standing on the other side of the river, we were not safe. And so we were all standing behind trees. We were watching.

00:41:29

Ignasio, who'd been shot before, was watching with the binoculars. And he's

00:41:33

going, "Whenever you see them walking," he said, "they let you see them, and

00:41:36

then they clever girl you in the forest where there's one watching you from the

00:41:39

shadows." And he he would grab me by the shoulder and go, "Look, there's one."

00:41:42

And you would just see this, you know, red face paint in the shadows of the forest. And he'd have the bow trained on

00:41:48

us. And so while some of them in the front were putting the bows down, there was others of them in the shadows that

00:41:52

were making sure that they still had support. But we asked the guys in the front to put down their arrows. The

00:41:59

anthropologists got in the river and gave them an offering of bananas. >> I think I have a video here of this.

00:42:06

>> Yeah, this is world first footage. >> I'll let you um You know how to use an

00:42:13

iPad, right? Um, there we go. Yeah. So, this is this was this is just a random moment from

00:42:22

the earlier days, but this is that moment where everyone starts screaming, "Mosh, go and we're all running." And

00:42:27

this is what I was talking about where they are moving across the beach. And you can see the sort of the posture

00:42:32

they're using there. I mean, he's got they have their bows and arrows in hand

00:42:37

and then they showed up and see they're pointing. They were worried that our

00:42:40

cameras were guns and so they were asking to put down the cameras. They were curious about various members of

00:42:47

our tribe and they were all talking at the same time and so it was very difficult to understand what they

00:42:52

wanted. >> What's he doing with his finger there? He's doing >> this.

00:42:56

>> Yeah. >> I don't know. This is the moment that we gave them the bananas. And what's

00:43:00

haunting about this is the desperation that you see on them where they're all

00:43:05

rushing to get the bananas and they're not necessarily taking them like they're

00:43:08

going to share later. They're taking them like I get my bananas, you get your

00:43:12

bananas. You see this? They're all rushing to get this little boatload. And these

00:43:18

are people that don't have boats. And as they're doing this, they're all talking

00:43:22

at the same time. It was like a flock of parrots. It was just a cacophony of of sound.

00:43:28

And they're all fighting over these plantains. And and then once they get them, each person held their own. They

00:43:34

have rope and plantains. And this interaction went on for several hours. And we negotiated with them. And this is

00:43:41

just the footage. This is the footage that we're allowed to release right now.

00:43:44

And this is them moving back off into the jungle. There's a lot more that happened. And again, that's where that's

00:43:50

why that's why we're releasing this now. I should say that that's why we waited a

00:43:54

while to release this footage because footage like this is incredibly sensitive for a number of reasons.

00:44:00

A, you don't want people to think that we went out and contacted these people

00:44:04

that want to be left alone. You also don't want to encourage other people to

00:44:09

indulge their misconceptions. People go, "Oh, these are the last free people on

00:44:13

earth. They live perfectly in balance with nature." No, people will go looking

00:44:19

for them. Whereas, for hundreds of years, these people have asked for one thing and one thing only, to be left

00:44:24

alone. And they've enforced that kind of like the Comanches with arrows. And on

00:44:30

this day, they said, "Please give us food. Please give us rope." And they had

00:44:34

one other question. They said, "How do we tell the bad guys from the good guys?" And we said, "What

00:44:40

do you mean? Who are the bad guys?" And they said, "Some of you shooted us with

00:44:44

the jiu-jitsu, with the fire sticks, the guns." And we were going, "Who who

00:44:50

does that?" We said, "We are not the bad guys." And they said, "No, you also,"

00:44:53

they said, "We know you cut down our trees." They were speaking to all of us.

00:44:56

It was not there's no like, you know, white guy, brown guy, Peruvian, foreigners, none of that. It was just

00:45:01

all of you outsiders, stop cutting down our trees. Our trees are our gods. It was sort of like, you

00:45:08

don't do that. And then when they left just a few weeks ago, we learned that the narcot

00:45:14

traffickers view them as a threat. And there was actually a mass grave found of a similar clan. And so these people are

00:45:21

being boxed in by deforestation and hunted by narot traffickers and gold miners and loggers. And so I think that

00:45:28

them coming out of the forest was their way of saying, "Hey, we're trying to get

00:45:32

a read on what's going on in the outside world. Who is it? Who are the good guys?

00:45:36

Who are the bad guys? They don't know that Jungle Keepers is protecting the land that they live on.

00:45:42

>> They've never heard of a spoon or the wheel or Jesus or World War II or the

00:45:48

country of Peru. And so so they're coming out with so many questions. And the only way to care for these people

00:45:55

and to give them the the the rights that they deserve is to protect the forest they live in.

00:46:01

>> Do you know why some of them seem to be touching their nose? >> It's funny. I didn't notice that. I

00:46:08

think this is this is this is going to be your discovery to anthropology. I did not notice that, but it does. You see

00:46:13

this a lot of them are doing this. >> Yeah. >> And the the outfit um

00:46:19

>> the outfit >> What is this outfit? This it looks like there's kind of rope tied around their

00:46:23

midrift with their penises out. >> Mhm. Yeah. The the the head of the penis

00:46:27

is covered by rope. >> Oh, they've got the penis up into the rope. >> No, the head of the penis is up and

00:46:32

protected. And and that makes sense given the jungle where there's mosquitoes and bot flies and sand flies.

00:46:38

That that's a smart move. And then rope seems to be I mean what is it goes like

00:46:43

fire rope ladders like I think it's like man's second invention. >> They are obsessed with rope. That's how

00:46:48

they make their bow strings. That's how they make their arrows. That's how they

00:46:52

lash things together to make the the the limited structures that they make. And some of what we know about them is, you

00:46:58

know, we find their camps after they leave. So we know what they eat. They eat primarily turtles and monkeys. They

00:47:03

don't fish. They don't have fish hooks. >> They They don't eat humans, do they?

00:47:08

>> They do not eat humans. They are not cannibal tribes. >> That's a rumor people have talked about

00:47:12

before. People have said, >> "Yeah, there's even a couple versions of

00:47:15

my voice in AI saying that on the internet, but it is not true." >> And their haircuts, they all seem to be

00:47:22

have the sort of mullet style haircut from >> It seems like they all grab the front

00:47:27

and just find a way to cut it. There might be like one guy with a machete who just does the haircuts.

00:47:32

>> And for a lot of them, this is the first time they've seen a human.

00:47:35

>> So, actually, this was first contact. The anthropologist who came to the

00:47:40

scene, who managed this interaction, he said he had met an unconted tribe before in the region. He said none of

00:47:49

these were men that he'd met. And the other thing, notice they're all men.

00:47:53

>> Yeah. >> The women were hidden hidden in the forest. And while the men were making a

00:47:57

distraction in front of us, the women were raiding the farm behind us. >> Raiding

00:48:02

>> raiding the farm. >> Your farm? >> The indigenous people's farm. Our

00:48:06

community's farm. >> So the women went to steal while they were distracting you.

00:48:09

>> That's right. >> And did you catch the women on tape? >> No. No. No. No. No. No. Everyone was We

00:48:14

were all huddled up very, very close. I mean, this was an incredible encounter. But let me explain. The prevailing

00:48:21

emotion during this entire thing was fear on both sides. They were scared. We were scared. The indigenous people

00:48:29

naturally have shotguns anyway. Everyone had their shotguns out. They all had some of them had put their bows on the

00:48:36

beach, but they had other they had archers waiting. And so everyone was sort of, you know, it was like, "Put

00:48:41

down your guns and we can talk." But nobody really wanted to put down their

00:48:44

guns. >> And how do you know the women were stealing from your farm? Because after this was all over and we

00:48:51

went to the farm, everything had been pulled up. All the yuka, all the plantains, all the sugarcane, the entire

00:48:58

farm was ruined. >> How'd you know it was the women? >> The women in the village told me it was

00:49:04

the women. They was the women. Also, you see the smaller footprints. These men have wide big men. They're from walking

00:49:12

barefoot their whole lives. Their feet get ancho. They get really thick. And so, and I have jungle feet like that

00:49:18

now, but these guys have almost duck feet at this point. Like big, fat, calloused feet that get wider. You ever

00:49:25

see a farmer's hands? >> Yeah. >> But they just they just grow. >> Yeah.

00:49:29

>> Like that. >> They're all young as well. >> Where's Where are the older people?

00:49:34

>> We'd love to know. We don't know. There's some tribes in the Amazon where the elderly people have

00:49:41

more permanent settlements. There's been rumors of some extreme tribes where the

00:49:46

elderly people if they can't keep up are just left to perish. Uh but we saw people between the ages of probably 12

00:49:54

and 45. I don't think anybody looks like they're in their 50s. So we left with more questions than

00:50:01

answers. They on that day they did get a pot that they they stole from a from you

00:50:06

know the community you know they have their their farm and so there there was also a machete at the farm. Somebody

00:50:11

just whacked it into a log. And so as they were leaving, one of the best things that we caught on video that we

00:50:16

have we're not able to share yet is that one of these guys, and this was at the

00:50:19

end after while everybody was going home, the anthropologist held up his hands and he said, you know, no mole

00:50:25

brothers, go in peace. And these guys actually asked about me. I was the only person there with a big beard. And they

00:50:30

said, they said that one. They said, show us that one. And so I came forward. I stood

00:50:35

at the edge of the river, which my heart was pounding. And the anthropologist said, he said, hold up your hands. Show

00:50:40

them that you don't mean any harm. I held hel held up my hands like this and

00:50:43

they held up their hands and they sang. They said no more. They knew that I wasn't from the indigenous community.

00:50:51

And that was an incredible moment of we couldn't communicate but it was just

00:50:55

sort of that basic I acknowledge you and they said I acknowledge you and we just

00:51:00

had this thing across the river in about a thousand years and just and then that

00:51:03

was it. And as they left, you know, one of the guys had a machete and he was he showed it to us over his shoulder like

00:51:10

this. And one of my friends was going, "Oh," you know, in the local language he

00:51:13

was saying, "Put down the machete. Leave the machete." And the guy just smiled

00:51:16

and looked at us like, "Yeah, come and get it. Come and get it." And then at

00:51:20

just as they left, one of the warriors walked out to the beach, put an arrow on the string, smiled at us, and just shot

00:51:27

it. Was like, "Ha!" >> Up into the air, >> just at us in general, just to spook us.

00:51:33

And then they all turned left and left, you know. So they have a sense of humor.

00:51:37

We saw them smile, you know. We exchanged a little bit of that with them as well.

00:51:42

>> They look cold. They are cold. I mean, it's it's it's 95° on that day. The other thing is it

00:51:49

was cool as they're coming. If you go to the part where they're coming across the

00:51:52

beach, there was millions of butterflies. That beach was covered in just millions of butterflies. And so as

00:51:59

these people are walking out, the butterflies are just swarming around them. Go back to the beginning. The that

00:52:04

right there. If you just notice, we don't notice it at first, but as they're

00:52:08

moving, look at that. The world is swirling with leapid lepodopter in colors. Just just absolute

00:52:14

>> insanity how how beautiful this scene was. And I mean, when you see this, you

00:52:18

know, if a if a Tyrannosaurus Rex walked out behind them, I wouldn't have been

00:52:22

surprised. It was such a strange literally unbelievable thing to see because you know these these literally are the

00:52:30

last people on Earth that are still living in this way where society we have planes, trains, automobiles, iPhones,

00:52:34

all of this technology. We're talking about going to other planets. They don't have metal,

00:52:44

even a knife, unless they get it from someone else. And so it's just it's just

00:52:47

an incredible, you know, the other thing is they do have medicinal technologies.

00:52:51

They're able to stay infection-free living in the tropical wet jungle. That's pretty incredible

00:52:58

>> cuz they're they're virtually naked. >> I mean, essentially naked. I think

00:53:03

that's that's how they carry their rope. I don't think that's so much of clothing

00:53:06

as we need rope and that's how we carry it. It's very it's very very complicated

00:53:12

because the loggers shoot at them, the narcos shoot at them. People shouldn't be getting into the

00:53:21

places that they live. And if you think about in the last few centuries, how many indigenous cultures have been

00:53:27

annihilated by the outside world coming in these there's no shortage of these

00:53:32

stories. And in this particular case, in 2026, when we have the communication and

00:53:38

people are able to hear this story, this is why we're releasing this footage

00:53:42

because the only hope these people have is if we protect them. They can't come

00:53:47

on a podcast. They can't address the United Nations. They can't write a pet

00:53:50

petition. The only hope they have is if we are able to protect the forest that they live in. That's it. And that's why

00:53:58

we released this footage now. Cuz for a long time we said we can't release it.

00:54:03

We said, "What if what if crazy hippie people go down there thinking that these

00:54:07

are the last free people and they want to go live with them? That will kill them. The outside pathogens that you and

00:54:12

I carry on us every day, the common cold that we have immunity to, could wipe out

00:54:16

an entire tribe." And how many tribes like this do we believe are in the Amazon rainforest?

00:54:23

>> Several thousand little tribes, little clans that move nomatically through the

00:54:27

Amazon. >> Were they tall? >> They looked like they were at least, you

00:54:33

know, 5'9, 510. They were pretty tall, especially because the the Peruvians and

00:54:38

the indigenous communities that we work with tend to be on the smaller side. >> They they they are taller than the

00:54:44

average uh some of the other tribes. There's another tribe that we ran into down there called the Nawa. And those

00:54:50

people were were absolutely tiny. They were s like below five feet. All of them. Um

00:54:57

these guys were tall. Yeah. And is there a leader here? Is someone in charge? >> Another great question. It seems to be

00:55:05

that there's two, they look like brothers. There seems to be two guys who do most of the talking. One in

00:55:10

particular who seems to be doing the most gesticulating and he was communicating more forcefully. He He had

00:55:16

a smile. That guy, he had a smile on his face at certain times. >> This one?

00:55:20

>> Yeah, I think so. And And he was the one that would walk the furthest out into

00:55:24

the river. Yeah. And he seems well muscled, healthy. >> He's the biggest as well in size by the

00:55:32

looks of it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. These tribes have been known to kill people.

00:55:39

>> These tribes kill people all the time. The the day after this happened, we went

00:55:45

down river and one of the people who had been maintaining the peace during this negotiation across the river was my

00:55:52

friend George. And George kept saying, "Don't worry, it's going to be okay.

00:55:57

Don't worry, no mole." And he would say, "Let's get them more bananas." And he

00:56:00

said, "You stay behind the tree. Say, hey, please put down your camera. They

00:56:04

don't understand that it's not a gun." He was making sure that everyone was

00:56:07

calm. Well, George was driving the day after this in the river as he does every day and he rounded one riverbend and the

00:56:17

tribe was out again. They were further up river and usually when they leave they go deep into the jungle but on this

00:56:22

day they had been walking up the river which nobody expected and so when his boat came around the river they hadn't

00:56:28

expected it and they open fired. Everybody else on the boat was able to get down under the the benches which is

00:56:35

made out of heavy thick wood. As he was driving, he caught an arrow over the scapula,

00:56:42

came out by his belly button. So, it collapsed his right lung and cut through his whole body

00:56:49

and he had to be helicopter evacuated out of the indigenous community. And somehow he lived.

00:56:57

But he's never going to be the same. And there's there's a hundred stories I

00:57:01

could tell you of people that have been killed by them. But now and more and more there's

00:57:06

stories of that they are also being exterminated. So their violence is in response to the fact that the outside

00:57:12

world has been cruel to them. And the only way that they can ensure that they survive is by keeping the outside world

00:57:17

out. >> This is a might be a bit of a dumb question, but there's no consequence to

00:57:23

that is there from the Peruvian government or anything. the proving government aren't trying to um you know

00:57:29

if they if this uncontacted tribe kills somebody they're not necessarily going

00:57:33

to go there and try and enforce any kind of like law. That's actually a great question because it

00:57:40

illustrates something that I think a lot of people fundamentally don't understand

00:57:43

about this is that you know if this banana is the last town and then you imagine just our river is

00:57:53

the size of a football field. >> Mhm. >> Right. How are you going to get to the other

00:58:00

side of it in the jungle? It takes you about about an hour to cover half a mile through through dense jungle. If me and

00:58:08

you were going with machetes right now through dense dense jungle, about an hour for every half mile. That's with no

00:58:14

trail. With trail, you can go a little faster. With a boat, you can go a little faster. But the police have no

00:58:19

jurisdiction outside of the city. The only reason the police have power is because everyone has agreed that there's

00:58:25

a government and that they have power and that there's a but it's all made up.

00:58:30

And when you go out in the jungle, you realize that there is no law in the wild. It's just whatever happens. It's

00:58:35

who has a bigger stick. And so they're still playing by that game. They've never heard of a law. And

00:58:42

so they they've been known to find something interesting just the way and you know today if we're interested in a

00:58:48

bird, we take a picture of it and then we study it or we can capture it. We can study it. You know, sometimes people

00:58:53

will criticize Teddy Roosevelt for being a hunter, but a lot of the species, if he saw a new species, he would shoot it

00:59:00

so that he could study it. That was what they did back then. But they do this with humans. They'll be like, "That's an

00:59:06

interesting pair of pants." They seem to think about life and death very differently.

00:59:13

>> And I was watching something um a podcast that you did where you said that

00:59:18

they also speak the same language. some of these unconted tribes is the monkeys.

00:59:23

>> Yes. Um so what they do is they will emulate capacin calls, bird calls, the

00:59:29

unrelated tinn tinimu goes. Um the capachens I can't do their call but these guys have it down perfectly.

00:59:37

>> Capagins being >> capagin monkeys and they'll use those sounds. And JJ's

00:59:45

father Don Santiago had told us years and years ago he said we thought he was just trying to scare us. He said, "If

00:59:50

you're ever in the forest and you hear the animals sound a little off, if you

00:59:56

ever just feel like something's not right about the way the He" He said,

01:00:00

"They've surrounded you and they're all watching with their bows and arrows."

01:00:03

>> The tribes have. >> Yeah. And so they'll go and you'll go and he'll go and you go,

01:00:10

"Wait, wait a sec." You don't hear three tinus in a row. That's not how it works.

01:00:15

That one tineu talks to the other tineu and all of a sudden I got five tinus around me. Uh-uh. And then you know you

01:00:20

got the tribe around you. And so this is where the local people know how this stuff works. And to anyone from the

01:00:25

outside that goes, there's no such thing as unconted tribes and they don't

01:00:28

communicate. Yeah, they do. And one of my friends was in that exact situation where they were communicating with

01:00:35

animal calls in a circle while he was in a stream with his father and unfortunately they shot his father

01:00:41

in the stomach and his father died. And then he ran for it and he lived to tell the tale. And the next day the his

01:00:49

community, our friends came back and they found this guy who had just bled out through

01:00:55

his stomach. And why they killed him, we do not know. >> So they pretend they're animals. Um but

01:01:04

well, they they use animal sounds to communicate with each other. >> Yes. >> Because then the prey, which in this

01:01:11

case might be a human, >> Yeah. >> won't know that it's >> exactly.

01:01:15

>> Okay. So, if I'm going if we go, okay, let's split up and surround. We're we're

01:01:19

we're unconted tribes now. And we go, okay, there's loggers over there. Let's

01:01:23

split up, surround them. We'll see how many of them there are. >> And use the monkeys language to

01:01:27

>> use the monkey language. They don't think anything of it. They'll just keep

01:01:29

doing what they're doing. And then when we give the go-ahad, everybody, we just

01:01:33

slice them with seven foot arrows and they're all going down. I was I was going to ask about

01:01:41

happiness, but I don't even know the context in which to ask the question about their happiness.

01:01:45

>> No, I think I think that there's some some Coror Mc McCarthy quotes that would

01:01:51

probably do better justice to their reality than the idea of happiness. I think that they are living in a world

01:01:57

where they're more concerned with calories. They're more concerned with how much blood does it cost to walk a

01:02:04

mile. They're more concerned with stealing the women from other tribes. They're not concerned with happiness.

01:02:10

It's more apocalyptto than uh Downtown Abbey. You know, it's it's they're

01:02:16

they're in a state of desperation. You could see it in their face. And that's where there's a further

01:02:24

anthropological question of what happens in the future for these people. But one

01:02:28

thing that we know for certain is that rapid contact destroys them. It's happened before. All of this has

01:02:34

happened before. You know, when the outside world reaches an unconted tribe, the pathogens kill them. When the

01:02:41

outside world reaches even an indigenous community, alcohol, outside pathogens, money can destroy an indigenous culture

01:02:49

and take away their language in a single generation. So, so these types of of severely isolated cultures, if they want

01:02:59

to come out and make contact with the indigenous communities that are their neighbors, that has to happen over time.

01:03:06

And and they have to have the agency to do it, which means their forest needs to

01:03:11

be protected. And so that's that's and that's all we know. You know, we don't know what their

01:03:17

birth rates are, what their infant mortality rates are, where their old people are, what what what what are

01:03:22

their creation myths, what are their beliefs? We have no idea. >> Do we even know where they live in terms

01:03:27

of do they live in huts, houses? Do we know that? >> No, they don't. In fact, at this very

01:03:31

moment right now, uh I would imagine that there's several of them hunched around a campfire in the darkness

01:03:37

beneath 160 ft of canopy. You know, because when you're in the jungle, there's there's these these pillars

01:03:42

going up, but then it's a it's a 4D environment because it's just you're

01:03:46

walking. It's like you're walking along the bottom of the ocean. You're this

01:03:49

tiny thing. And above you is all of this slithering life and frogs and things moving through the branches. And so

01:03:55

they're they're huddled down there in the and below the Amazon rainforest. And

01:03:59

somehow they figured out how to make fire, which if I handed you a lighter and a

01:04:06

full cup of gasoline and said, "Have all the sticks you want in the jungle," you

01:04:11

still couldn't make me a fire right now. >> How do you know they can make fire?

01:04:14

>> Because we see them cook stuff. We find their camps. But it's also conceivable because they

01:04:22

don't have pots. It's conceivable that that they some of these people haven't seen water boil,

01:04:30

right? They just drink water and it falls on them from the sky. They certainly don't know that water freezes.

01:04:38

On this point of happiness, you said you saw desperation in their faces, but does

01:04:42

that mean that you think they're not happy, >> or do you just think that

01:04:46

>> that isn't even a sort of a paradigm that they even consider? It's all about

01:04:51

survival. >> I think that we have we're inbuilt to enjoy moments of joy. I think that

01:04:56

humans enjoy moments of interaction, moments of play. And not just humans, I think that animals in general. You look

01:05:01

at, you know, two puppies chasing each other. They're having fun. You know, even on even on this day with shotguns

01:05:07

loaded and bows cocked and we still found the time to smile a little bit at each other. Give me that machete. Yeah.

01:05:13

Yeah. Come and get it. And we kind of like, you know, it was kind of like you're just as scared of us as we are as

01:05:17

you. And it was it was a it was we were on the same level for that smile, >> you know? And I was like, oh, okay.

01:05:24

Yeah. None of us want to do that. >> Um, and so there's there is happiness

01:05:28

there. But I'm saying, you know, uh knowledge comes with benefits. You know,

01:05:34

there's a lot of things that they may believe that I I remember when I was in

01:05:37

college reading about an anthrop anthropologist group that got to somewhere in New Guinea and all the

01:05:42

people were hiding in trees cuz they had they'd gotten to a point in their civilization where that where they

01:05:48

believed that everything that bad that was bad came from magical spells. You know, if I fall and break my leg, it's

01:05:53

cuz you set a magical spell on me and if I get sick, it's because of a magical

01:05:56

spell. And everybody was so scared of upsetting each other that they'd all just started living in the trees and

01:06:00

hunting and they were living in this constant fear state. >> And so, you know, you at times like

01:06:06

that, you need someone to go, "Okay, guys, look, here's what, you know,

01:06:09

here's what's happening. Let's get let's get let's get on the same page." And

01:06:12

they may maybe they would be helped by having a small plantation of plantains. And so, if they have a bad week of

01:06:18

hunting, they can just come in and they can they can take some of their own make get some

01:06:24

of their own food. They don't need to start being agricultural. They can still

01:06:28

be nomadic hunter gatherers, but maybe having some supplemental food out there in locations that they know about would

01:06:34

help. But these are things for the local people and for anthropologists to figure

01:06:38

out over time. >> I heard you say that children from the tribe who were raised by outside

01:06:42

communities claim to remember nothing about their time in the tribe. >> It's haunting.

01:06:51

>> What do you mean by that? I mean that a child washed down river on a log to one

01:06:56

of the very very remote communities in the Amazon rainforest and was adopted by an indigenous community, people that

01:07:02

speak an indigenous language as well as Spanish. And when he was old enough to be asked questions, someone said, "Hey,

01:07:11

by the way, when you were living with Los Kalatos with the with the naked people, that's what they call them. Um,

01:07:18

what was it like?" and he just went, "I don't remember." And walked away. But I

01:07:22

mean, when he came down, he was 8 years old. You can't tell me you don't remember

01:07:27

anything. And but it was a it was a it was a it was a guarded I don't remember.

01:07:31

It was a I don't remember. No. Access denied. It doesn't I mean, you got you know, and

01:07:39

that's what people get wrong where they go, "Oh, these people still live, you

01:07:42

know, in communion with nature." And it's like, yeah, and there's a lot of

01:07:45

rape and murder and warfare and probably needless death from infections and disease and and and they're living a

01:07:53

very different lifestyle, but it certainly is fascinating that they're out there. And I think that it only goes

01:08:00

to illustrate that we what we're protecting here is truly that wild. Because a lot of people will say to me,

01:08:06

well, how come you guys are so focused on protecting this river? There's thousands of tributaries in the Amazon.

01:08:11

Why protect this 300,000 acres right there? It's like, well, this is the wildest part. John Mirror took Teddy

01:08:18

Roosevelt on a camping trip when he wanted him to protect the Yusede Valley and the Sequoia trees. And he said, you

01:08:25

have to see this. And so, he took Roosevelt and showed him how amazing it was. I mean, sequoia trees like that

01:08:31

exist nowhere else on Earth. They're the biggest trees on the planet. If he if

01:08:36

they hadn't protected them, they'd be gone. And so them having the foresight to

01:08:41

protect those trees, then we still have sequoia trees. And so that's what we're

01:08:45

doing on this river. It's like by protecting 300,000 acres of forest, we ensure that those

01:08:52

millennium trees, those skyscrapers of life continue to have monkeys, reptiles, amphibians, birds, mammals, that these

01:08:59

tribes continue to live out in the far reaches. And then again to use the football field analogy in this vast

01:09:05

expanse of wilderness, we found a way to use just like a little pin prick to actually bring people and let them see

01:09:13

this amazing place. And so we, you know, the whole 99.99% of the thing is wild. And we that's why we built that

01:09:19

treehouse to let you know some of our donors, some of our people, cuz now people from all over the world are

01:09:24

helping us save this river. and the treehouse. That was a dream. You know, there's a there's a mist river

01:09:31

that flows above the Amazon that's invisible and it's larger than the Amazon River itself.

01:09:36

There's an invisible mist river above the Amazon that's larger than the river.

01:09:40

>> Mist. >> Mist. >> Okay. >> And so the first time I saw it, I had

01:09:46

climbed the tallest tree in the jungle, which took hours, and I was standing on a branch at dawn, and I saw the sun

01:09:52

illuminate the mist river going across the canopy. And I went, I have to share this with

01:09:58

people. And so we built that treehouse on a promontory at the edge of the terrairma

01:10:03

looking out over the jungle so that people can see the reserve, see all the forest that they're protecting. Because

01:10:10

at this point, the way we've see this and see that picture below it, that's

01:10:13

the wasteland. That's what happens when you don't protect the Amazon. Are you at all on some level jealous

01:10:23

of how these unconted tribes live? Is there any part of you that wants to go and experience their world for a day or

01:10:33

wishes you could spend some time living how they live? >> No. >> No,

01:10:38

>> no. I really enjoy hanging out with my native friends like when spending a day

01:10:42

piranha fishing. Um, but I also really love my camera roll and doing photography and having modern medicine

01:10:48

and being able to FaceTime my mom when I'm in the jungle. Like, you know, I I

01:10:52

don't I don't I don't I no romanticism about their state. That that seems like

01:10:57

stress and destiny. I don't I don't need to I don't want I certainly don't want

01:11:01

to do that now. Is there anything that you learned or gleaned from them that I know a westerner like me who's spending

01:11:08

a lot of time on I know screens and stuff and the way we live our lives might find useful.

01:11:14

>> I don't think that that we're at the point where they're imparting lessons. I

01:11:17

think we're we're at the point where we're learning which questions we want

01:11:19

to ask. That was first contact. And so at this point our job is to figure out how do we how do we move

01:11:27

forward? What do we what do they need? How do we ethically proceed in protecting this forest?

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got so many photos here. >> What do you got? I mean, in so many of these photos,

01:13:47

you're holding massive snakes. And when I say massive snakes, I don't mean the

01:13:51

snakes you guys listening are thinking about. I mean, anaconda sized snakes like, oh yeah, this was this was me and

01:14:00

JJ's first first big anaconda that we big anaconda we caught. It was only about 12 feet. And uh yeah, that one

01:14:08

that one this was a great snake because I'd never caught a big snake before. I'd

01:14:13

always been, you know, you catch a small snake and I'd learned from Steve Irwin,

01:14:16

you know, you catch a catch a snake by the tail and it's it might try to bite

01:14:19

you. If you don't get it by the tail, snake's going to run away every time.

01:14:22

Snakes are not never going to attack you, period. So, I learned you catch a snake by the tail and then it's once you

01:14:28

get it by the tail, it's going to come back at you and try and stop you from

01:14:31

grabbing its tail. Great. And if you need to, you can get it by the head and you got control of the snake. But if you

01:14:36

have the head, you have the snake. So that first snake, I mean, I'm talking about a 12ft snake that's, you know,

01:14:41

that's at least as thick as my leg. And I ran in there and I said, "Jay, you

01:14:45

come from that side. I'm going to come from this side. We get the snake. We're

01:14:48

going to measure it." Just because we thought it was so fascinating. I ran in

01:14:51

and I dove and I grabbed the snake by the head. Big mistake. Wraps around my arms. And the first thing that I

01:14:58

realized was I had an anaconda handcuffs. Now I couldn't I couldn't release the snake if I wanted to because

01:15:04

it was around my wrists. And then the second coil came around my shoulders. And now I'm feeling the I can actually

01:15:11

hear my collar bone start to flex the way a stick sounds right before it snaps. And JJ grabbed the snake by the

01:15:18

tail and pulled the tail off. And then his other brother, they got to me right as I was about to I mean literally the

01:15:23

eyes were going to come out of my head. It was going to crush you. That's what

01:15:26

happens. And so he pulled that right off at the last second. So that was about as close

01:15:30

as I came to knowing what it feels like. But that's not even a big one. >> I think you came a little bit closer.

01:15:39

>> Yeah. No, that's that that's a >> Explain this to me. So, for anyone that

01:15:44

can't can't see, I would highly recommend you look at the screen now. >> Um,

01:15:48

>> please look away. Look away. Don't listen to him. >> This is a an absolutely crazy story.

01:15:53

What What's going on in this photo? And why did you do that? >> Sure. This is actually a very important

01:15:59

story. You know, you hear these people talk about how if you're going to succeed at anything, you have to become

01:16:07

very familiar with losing. You almost got to learn to love it. And and so as we set out on this journey

01:16:14

to explore the Amazon and to build relationships with the indigenous people and to study anacondas and to find a way

01:16:21

to protect this place, at around 24 years old, I got approached by Discovery Channel. And they said, "Kid,

01:16:30

we've never seen one like you. Let's do a show where we take people into the

01:16:33

Amazon rainforest and show them anacondas." And I said, "That'd be

01:16:36

amazing." I said, "I would love to do that. I could teach people about the

01:16:40

forest. Let's let's go." They said, 'Great. The only thing is they said, you

01:16:43

know, it's not a good enough show if we just show them the science that you're

01:16:46

going to do. Because we wanted to use as the apex predators of the ecosystem, they're, you know, if there's mercury in

01:16:52

the system, they're bioaccumulating there. Any toxins that are in the Amazon, they're going to absorb. It's

01:16:57

going to get into the fish and then into the cayman, into the birds, into the anacondas. They're the apex predator. We

01:17:02

were doing groundbreaking research on anacondas. They said that wasn't good enough. They

01:17:06

said, imagine if they said no one's, you know, reticulated pythons have eaten

01:17:10

people. They said, "No one's ever had on record an anaconda eating a human." And

01:17:14

I said, "It happens. It happens. I know a few people whose grandmother or uncle

01:17:18

was eaten by an anaconda. It happens, but it doesn't happen where people no one's taking a picture of it." And so

01:17:23

they said, "Well, if we make you a really expensive suit, will you get eaten by an anaconda?" I said, "I'll

01:17:28

try." I said, "It's not going to eat. Snakes are sweethearts. It's not going

01:17:30

to try to eat me." And they said, "But look, we we'll call the show Expedition

01:17:35

Amazon. Send you out there with a team of scientists. We'll film the whole thing." Long story short, I agreed to it

01:17:41

because what I thought at the time was, I keep seeing forest getting burned. I keep seeing my millennium trees go down,

01:17:48

all of those monkeys and birds and snakes and beautiful animals that are getting incinerated. And they're telling

01:17:53

me all I got to do to get a TV show that'll reach millions of people and let

01:17:57

me get that message out there. All I got to do is at the end do this silly stunt

01:18:00

to show people that snakes aren't that bad. And so we filmed this show for 6

01:18:05

weeks. >> You agreed to what? I agreed to potentially be eaten by an anaconda.

01:18:15

>> Okay. I mean, if it wanted if it wanted to, I had a breathing tube and I had a um it

01:18:21

theoretically could have eaten me, but I knew it wouldn't cuz I know snakes. But

01:18:25

the producers were very, you know, these are people that have never left the the

01:18:29

the office building and have watched too many movies, and they wanted to see a guy get eaten by a snake.

01:18:35

>> And you volunteered. Of course, I'd volunteer. I would have cut off my foot

01:18:39

to save the forest. I'll do anything to save the forest. And so, when somebody

01:18:42

gives you a chance like this, and it's funny, I actually spoke to Jane Goodall

01:18:45

about this. I said, there's this chance I have and I think I could use I think I

01:18:50

can navigate this in such a way that that at the, you know, we take people on an expedition through the Amazon, and at

01:18:55

the end, I'll go I'll get in the pit in a special suit and I'll let the snake

01:18:59

wrap around me and I'll show people that anacondas are really these, you know,

01:19:02

sweethearts. And she said, I don't think it's going to go well. For anyone that

01:19:05

doesn't know who Jane Goodall is, >> Jane Goodall, the famous pimeatlogist,

01:19:10

the earthshattering scientist who redefined humans from men, the toolmaker to what we are now, the one who did more

01:19:17

for conservation, wildlife, women's science than just about anybody else. >> And she's also the um person that quoted

01:19:26

on the front of your book saying, "On behalf of the forests that I love, thank

01:19:30

you, Paul, for writing this book." Clearly from reading through your story,

01:19:33

she's um she's quite a hero of yours and has been for a long long time. >> Yeah. I mean, and going from when my

01:19:40

parents were reading us, me and my sister, they'd be reading us stories at night, you know, Jane Goodall and Gome

01:19:45

with the chimps and how she she didn't listen to the rules, she named them. Even though her her colleagues said,

01:19:51

"You never name your study subjects." And she said, "They have names. They're

01:19:54

they have personalities. They have names." She broke all the rules. And and

01:19:59

so I grew up with Jane as sort of this historical figure, but she was still like a living

01:20:04

historical figure. And so then when I when I when I actually met her, it was so incredible because I I met her at a

01:20:13

talk that she had given. And this this informed the rest of my life. The the the grace and wisdom that she showed

01:20:19

changed me as a person because I met her at a talk that she was giving in New York City. And I had printed out a

01:20:25

couple of chapters. I'd printed out one of the chapters that became my first

01:20:28

book where I'm taking care of a baby giant anteater. And I had printed out a chapter where me

01:20:34

and JJ were looking for our first anaconda, this story. And I put those together with a little covered letter

01:20:40

that's just said, "Hey, I love wildlife. I've been working in the Amazon for like

01:20:43

5 years and you've always been an inspiration to me. If I write a book, would you endorse it?" And so I gave

01:20:52

this to her in the manila envelope while there was a line of 500 people and you know we you take the picture and she

01:20:57

said thank you very much. She puts it aside and I said all right you know I tried my best and 48 hours later her her

01:21:04

team reached out and said Jane read the material. She read the chapters and she thinks that they're wonderful and if you

01:21:10

find a publisher let them know that Jane will endorse your book. And so then I went to the publishers and I said I have

01:21:16

the endorsement of Jane Goodall and they said well that's basically Mother Earth

01:21:19

herself. Mhm. >> And they said, "So, so that's what got me in the door to become an author with

01:21:24

my first book was Jane. You know, she's she was this titan of conservation, this

01:21:29

legendary figure. And her just first of all, for someone that was on the road 300 days a year, that's an icon of

01:21:36

science and conservation and hope. For her to have the presence of mind and the patience and the sense of responsibility

01:21:44

to actually read something that some kid handed her, that's incredible. That's

01:21:49

magic to me even to this day. And it and it matters to me and it informs how I act even to this day.

01:21:56

But without Jane sort of waving her wand in my direction, I would have no career.

01:22:01

There would be no Paul, no Jungle Keepers, no book. We wouldn't be sitting at this desk today. Jane Goodall saved

01:22:07

my life. >> She's an iconic scientist, as you say, um known for groundbreaking research on

01:22:14

chimpanzees and her work generally and globally on on conservation. Um, so you you decide that you're going to be eaten

01:22:21

by an anaconda. >> Oh, yeah. That was a tangent. Yes. >> So, is this a wild anaconda or is this

01:22:29

an anaconda held in captivity? >> How did you get the anaconda to eat you?

01:22:33

>> So, let me see that next one on the picture. >> This one? >> Yeah. This is a snake called Eleanor.

01:22:38

And we we named her this after my dear grandmother, who was an incredible woman and uh and uh the matriarch of our

01:22:46

family. Now, Eleanor is the largest snake ever measured at the time, verifiably, scientifically measured. She

01:22:53

was 18' 6 in and over over 100 kilos. And she was skinny. She hadn't eaten in

01:22:57

a while. But imagine if she'd eaten a Cappy bar, she would have been, you know, 200 kilos. But um my team caught

01:23:03

her while we were filming this show. And again, we were told the show would be called Expedition Amazon. The call sheet

01:23:09

said expedition EA. Then when we were done doing our research in the Amazon, they said,

01:23:14

"Look, fly to I forget if it was like Kentucky or Louisiana." They said, "L

01:23:18

fly to some state. There's a guy with a snake. No one will know the difference.

01:23:22

We'll blur it out." And they said, "Do this little stunt." I said, "We'll put

01:23:26

it the last five minutes of the show just to show people and then we'll, you

01:23:30

know, we'll hype it up in the news." They're like, "We got you." A lot of

01:23:32

handshakes, right? And the day before I was supposed to go on the Good Morning America show with uh Mr. Matt Lowauour,

01:23:41

who got mad at me for doing push-ups on the set. Um, the the day before I was supposed to go on the show, I'm here

01:23:47

again. I'm a kid and I'm going, I I think I think we got it. I think we did

01:23:50

it. We caught the biggest snake ever. The footage of us catching that snake is insane. We're all jumping in the river

01:23:55

and wrestling this kraken and we catch this snake and we learned from her. We did, we were, it sounds crazy, but we

01:24:01

were developing field methodology for studying the species and we learned all kinds of things about anacondas because

01:24:07

we fed her a transmitter. learned how she moves through the environment. This is research that had never been done

01:24:12

before. >> For context, feeding her a transmitter is putting a trans an electrical device

01:24:18

>> basically in her throat that she eats, she consumes, and it stays with her till

01:24:20

she dies. So, you can see what she's doing. >> It stays with her until she defecates

01:24:24

it, which for snakes that thankfully is months. >> Okay? >> And so, we're doing this groundbreaking

01:24:29

research. We caught this tremendous snake. We' survived a six week expedition in the Amazon. We had all

01:24:34

this incredible footage. And the night before I'm supposed to go out on the morning shows,

01:24:41

they showed me the film. It had none of the science. It had none of the conservation message

01:24:48

that I was promised would be in the show. And instead, they focused on the stunt at the end. And they changed the

01:24:55

name of the show to eaten alive. And then they sent me out the door to do the shows.

01:25:02

And the public was mad because I didn't actually get eaten and they felt like

01:25:05

they were lied to. PETA was mad because they felt like I had put a a snake's

01:25:09

life in danger somehow. Somehow somehow the animal rights people were furious. And then the scientists were mad because

01:25:16

they said, "Okay, you're just a you know a a shock person. You're just in in this for

01:25:21

the thrill and you're not really a conservationist." So it put me out of

01:25:24

work for years. >> Really? >> Yes. It set me back about 10 years. >> Really? I tried I took a big swing

01:25:30

because I thought it would help my forest and I hit my head on the ceiling and fell down hard. The next day the

01:25:37

news I mean you know all of the late night shows were making fun of it. Jimmy Kimmel was like you for your next stunt

01:25:43

you should try having sex with a hippo. I mean people the comments were just I went to India and lived with the herd of

01:25:49

elephants for a while. I mean I had to get out. I couldn't I literally couldn't. I said my dream of being a

01:25:53

conservationist is over. I was told by one prominent conservationist not even to come to South America.

01:26:01

And and again, the thing you have to remember through all of this is through the barefoot machete days, through going

01:26:06

to the Amazon, the first 15 years of my 20-year journey, I had no support. >> So, I was living out of a backpack,

01:26:15

living out of a boat in the Amazon barefoot with no paycheck, no health insurance, no security, no pathway

01:26:23

forward. Um, so it it was it was very uncertain times. You know that you actually I think it may have been on

01:26:31

your show. There's this great quote where I think it was Alex Hormosi was saying that confidence comes from giving

01:26:36

people irrefutable proof that you are who you say you are. And when I heard that quote I thought that's great. And

01:26:42

then the next thing I thought was well but you have to start building that proof in a direction. And for a lot of

01:26:48

people, I think they find themselves standing on a high hill looking at a set of mountains and you have to choose

01:26:55

which direction you're going in. And for me, I was a high school dropout who was

01:27:02

never going to be a conservation biologist. And I was trained by the local people

01:27:07

and sort of adopted by their tribe. And so I knew how to survive in the jungle and work with snakes and do all these

01:27:14

crazy things. And I tried I tried to to take that message to television and I got Hollywood hard. I got lied to and I

01:27:25

got taken for a ride. But that failure ended up being the best thing that ever happened because what it did was it sent

01:27:31

me right back to the drawing board. Said you're not ready yet. And so sometimes

01:27:35

the things that you want are not the things that you need. And it's this beautiful thing where life sort of moves

01:27:40

aside I know I know I know you want that but I'm I'm going to give you what you

01:27:44

need, not what you want. And so this was a case where I really I took it hard. I

01:27:49

mean, at the time it was a devastating loss and it was the best thing that ever happened because it it was the slap on

01:27:55

the head that sent me back out into the jungle for years and years and years of of more experience. Double down. What do

01:28:01

you really care about saving the forest? Well, if you care about saving the forest, how the hell are you going to do

01:28:05

that? And we had to develop a system to do that. We had to develop a new technology as a way to save the forest.

01:28:13

What actually happened here? >> So, we didn't I know you don't want to

01:28:17

It sounds like you don't you don't don't want to talk about it. >> It's just wasted air time to talk about

01:28:21

it because we we rolled around on in the mud with a 16 ft anaconda and nothing happened.

01:28:27

>> A lot of people will probably want to know why nothing happened. And I think

01:28:30

part of that is because of what you're wearing. >> No, the reason nothing happened is

01:28:35

because they had snake handlers wrapping the snake around me while I was in this

01:28:38

ridiculous suit. Um, I mean, the things I will do, the things I will do to protect this forest, that snake, if it

01:28:46

was left on its own, would crawl off. Any snake would would, if there was, if I had a black mamba in my hands right

01:28:51

now and I put it on this table, it would slide off the table and find the darkest

01:28:55

spot in the room and it would go hide. If I had a spitting cobra, same thing. No snake wants to deal with you. They

01:29:02

just want to go hide. They want to go back to sleep. >> Most people are terrified of snakes.

01:29:06

>> Most people are terrified of snakes. And that's why I think you're going to like

01:29:09

what I have for you. >> What do you mean? >> I brought a friend today.

01:29:14

>> You brought a friend? >> I did bring a friend and I want you to meet him.

01:29:20

Now, this is a very, very small ball python. This is a baby. And one of the first things I

01:29:30

try to impress upon people when they meet a baby snake is remembering that even if you're scared of snakes, you're

01:29:36

the large apex predator. And this is just a tiny little reptile that is all alone in the world. They're born and

01:29:45

they have to fend for themselves. And for some reason, ever since I was a little kid, I was fascinated with

01:29:51

snakes. I thought they were beautiful. I love the way they moved. I thought the way they can hold up their bodies and

01:29:56

flick their tongues. I find snakes calming and beautiful and fascinating. >> Is that snake dangerous?

01:30:05

>> You could hand this snake to a baby. This snake is so harmless. I mean, the

01:30:10

worst thing that this snake could do if I was to, let's just say, pinch her and

01:30:15

hurt her. She could bite me, but even that would barely break my skin. This is a snake that's going to look for

01:30:22

baby mice, little birds, maybe a frog, and try and grow to a larger size. Now, have you ever held a snake before?

01:30:30

>> No. >> You've never held a snake? >> I don't think so. No.

01:30:33

>> Oh, wow. That's wonderful. Well, this is such an easy one to start with, and I'll

01:30:37

give you a few pointers. >> My hands are sweating over. >> So, a few things is that even a baby

01:30:43

baby snake is going to interpret your inner state a little bit. if you're very

01:30:49

nervous and jittery and the snake is gonna pick up on that. But you see how she's sort of just fitting to my hand.

01:30:55

Yeah, she's done a few things here. She's got her anchor. She's got her tail

01:30:58

around these two fingers. And the next thing is she's flicking her tongue to

01:31:02

sense what's going on. She's she's looking around, but she's also

01:31:06

she's not excited. >> She doesn't mind sweat. >> She doesn't mind sweat. My hands sweat

01:31:10

quite a bit as well. And so I'm just going to place her in your hand nice and

01:31:15

easy. And what you want to do is let her sort of grab on now. Now, what are you feeling right now? Let's just see what

01:31:23

she does. >> I feel a little bit tense. >> That's okay. You can feel tense. Now, if

01:31:26

you feel tense, the thing is she's probably going to return to me because she probably knows I love her.

01:31:33

And >> I think she's right. >> Yeah. And that's okay. Why don't we just

01:31:36

let her do that? And then you can get a sense for how she moves. And I'm going

01:31:39

to give her a little hole to crawl through like that. And so what they do is they have all these muscles

01:31:44

>> running along their body and you can feel that, right? >> Such a beautiful animal, I do have to

01:31:48

say. >> Yeah. They're called ball pythons. They also call them royal pythons for that

01:31:53

that beautiful black and gold. >> It's Can I Can I touch it with my thumb?

01:31:59

>> You can. They don't love being pet. That's one thing about snakes. They

01:32:02

don't A lot of people when they come around to suddenly loving snakes, they go, "Well, I want to pet it the way I

01:32:08

want to pet a dog." And snakes will retract from that. So if you do it, touch her with your with your thumb. See

01:32:14

how she moves away? >> She moved away. Yeah, >> she moves away. She doesn't like that.

01:32:17

So usually with snakes, my my my rule is you you sort of have to be the be the tree.

01:32:23

>> Okay. And is she a baby? >> Absolutely. These are these this is quite small. And so in the jungle on

01:32:31

cold days, I'll find snakes like this and literally warm them up in my hands.

01:32:36

I'll put them in here. And just if you can just look at that. Just look at how

01:32:39

sweet she is. She'll just stay like that. >> She likes that. >> She likes that. She likes the warmth

01:32:43

there. We are endtherms. They are ectotherms. Like all reptiles, they depend on their environment for their

01:32:49

body temperature. And so on the cold days, see that? See that? I move my hand closer.

01:32:54

>> She got a little spooked. She went back into the Again, this is just a tiny

01:32:58

baby. There's another one that is a similarly awesome example. This is her larger

01:33:09

relative. Same species, right? So, this is a small ball python and this is a larger ball python. And notice that both

01:33:17

of these, there's no risk, right? There's no there's no danger here. It's

01:33:20

not like I can't put these near my face. Again, both of these are sort of the

01:33:24

golden retrievers of snakes. These are these are snakes that have been handled by responsible snake owners. So, will

01:33:32

that small one grow into the big one or you saying they're the same sort of cousins?

01:33:36

>> Yeah, this is a larger ball python. This is a smaller ball python. >> So, this one will eventually be the

01:33:41

size. >> Absolutely. And this one could could grow to be double that size. Really?

01:33:45

I've seen ball pythons be double that size. Now, this one slightly different game for holding.

01:33:54

But see, like that. Look who's scared here. Me. Well, and and him. And so, look at that. He's beautiful.

01:34:02

So, look, I'll just give you a sense of look at the power in a python. You think pull-ups are hard. He's

01:34:10

holding on with no no legs, no claws, just strength. And he's just going to climb back up on

01:34:17

onto my arm. So, what I'd like you to do is hold out your wrist. Yeah, you got this.

01:34:33

Just straight across the table. Hold that. Right like that. >> Now, remember, if he does bite,

01:34:39

>> you mean if he doesn't >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Just hold him

01:34:41

up high enough that he's not touching the table. Yeah. And then I'm just going

01:34:45

to coax him up. He's okay. You're okay. You're okay. You're all right. You're

01:34:48

all right. There we go. There we go. So, he's just gonna just just feel that

01:34:52

power as he moves, which he will eventually. But, see, you can feel the power on this

01:35:02

snake. It's a little bit more of a >> a little bit more musculature. >> They are stunning.

01:35:12

You see that? That's it. He's like, "Okay, cool. You're holding me here."

01:35:17

They're pretty relaxed animals. So, he'll go and eat a small prey item, go

01:35:22

back into his burrow, and then digest for a week before going back out. And now you Now, if you want, you can take

01:35:31

your other hand and put it under him to support him. And then he'll start to

01:35:34

move over both of your hands. Why don't you try that? Put your other hand very

01:35:37

gently right under his coil right there. He got scared of that. That's okay.

01:35:44

Or you could put a thumb through the through the loop. >> Could do, couldn't I?

01:35:48

>> Yeah, you could do that. You're loving all these suggestions. All right, now watch. Let's see what

01:35:54

happens when you put him on the table. Cuz I bet you anything he doesn't enjoy.

01:35:58

You feel that power? You feel that little bit of power there? >> Yeah. >> Now, that's a snake this big. Wait till

01:36:02

you see like with an anaconda or something. Now, a table's sort of unfair. There's

01:36:07

nothing for him to see this. He's going to he's going to flop a little bit.

01:36:11

There's they're not supposed to be on a table. So, this is what I'll do. I'll be

01:36:14

the I'll be the ground cuz then see look now he's pushing with all those little belly

01:36:22

scales. See how he can cruise that incredible snake locomotion. Now watch if I take away his look. He's

01:36:30

holds on. They don't want to. Now he's got nothing to push off of. So he's

01:36:33

gonna he's going to do the inchworm thing. But you get a sense of how snakes move.

01:36:38

They need that. They need the ground. They need pebbles. They need rocks. Now you Now catch them.

01:36:44

Oh, come on, Mike. Catch him now. No, seriously. Not by the head. Start by the tail. Just right here. Just pick him up.

01:36:51

And then once you pick him up, you can give him to me and then we can be done. But but Stephen, you have to catch the

01:36:56

snake. >> Pick pick him up here. >> Just pick him up. >> He's not going to do anything

01:37:00

>> now. Nice and slowly, too, cuz he's a friendly snake. You don't want to offend

01:37:02

him. >> He seems to be tense. >> I mean, he is side eyeing you right now.

01:37:06

>> That's what I mean. He seems like I'm side eyeing him. He's side eyeing me.

01:37:09

But I'm telling you that the snake, all you got to do is just pick them up. >> And then when I pick him up, what do I

01:37:15

do? >> Just pick them up and hand them to me. That's all you got to do. And then this

01:37:19

is all over. >> Oh my god. I can't believe this. >> Oh my god. >> Beautiful. Right up up up up. Amazing.

01:37:30

Wonderful. Now I'm going to take him. >> All right. And then I have one more

01:37:37

snake that I really need you to meet. Come here. You can't hold on to that. This

01:37:44

This is a different story. And this is sort of the closest thing that we're going to get

01:37:50

to an anaconda. I think the easiest thing I could do here is just let her get around my neck.

01:37:56

>> What the [ __ ] is my life? >> So now what you don't want snakes to do

01:38:00

is to close that gap, right? You don't want them to wrap around your neck. >> Could she kill you? She could.

01:38:08

>> Then don't bring it over here. >> Well, I thought I thought you wanted to

01:38:10

meet her, too. >> But what what if she does something to me? >> No, no. So, this is a different type of

01:38:16

snake. This is a Burmese python. And when you talk about large constrictors, those are small

01:38:22

constrictors, the the ball pythons. This is a larger constriction constrictor. And Burmese pythons get to be big. These

01:38:29

can go up to 18 ft long. And now what I think you're going to really appreciate

01:38:35

is the power that these things have when you feel that power. And now just don't

01:38:40

move. Yeah. Now give her your hand. Take her take her with your hand. Good. Very good. Now hold this hand out. Good.

01:38:52

Just like that. Now be the tree. Just be the tree. That's great. Yep. You want to

01:38:58

come this way, girl? Come here. Her tail is hot. >> Yeah. >> Why? Why is the tip hot?

01:39:06

>> Maybe she likes you. >> Okay, now she's just going to move behind your head. And I just want you to

01:39:12

feel the muscles of that snake. >> What was that? >> Oh, yeah. That's great.

01:39:16

>> Is she hissing? >> She's breathing. That's just her breathing cuz she's holding on. She's a

01:39:20

ground snake. She's not really a tree snake. Now, Burmese pythons, they grow to be

01:39:25

18t long. They can take down deer. And so what you have right now is this beautiful granite Burmese python

01:39:34

crawling on your shoulders. And you're doing great, by the way. You look very

01:39:36

calm. Breathe. Don't forget to breathe. >> And she can kill a deer. >> No, no, she'll grow. She's still a baby.

01:39:41

She's still small. She'll eventually be able to kill a deer. Now I just I don't

01:39:45

want her to. Now, here's the thing. I think she likes you. And so when I try to take her,

01:39:52

>> the strength. >> The strength. Yeah. >> She could like break my pinky finger

01:39:55

off. >> Yeah. So, let's just see what we do. So, we know a few things. We know that she's

01:40:01

not going to hurt us. We know that she's not going to eat that banana. I know

01:40:05

she'd like to probably Come on. You want to come up, girl? Yeah. See, I think

01:40:10

they come to me. I think they know. You hear that? You hear that breathing? Have you ever done a podcast with a

01:40:21

with a 10-ft snake across the table before? >> No, this is my first. >> This is amazing. It's such a It's such a

01:40:28

joy to be here with a Burmese python there. >> So, I really This is the closest I can

01:40:32

get you to an anaconda. I wouldn't bring an anaconda here. Their personality is a

01:40:35

little different. >> Their personality is different. >> Oh, yeah. Different snake species just

01:40:39

like you'd be a little bit more careful around certain dog species than you would others. Certain snakes. Now,

01:40:46

notice, look, now I'm I'm I'm pulling a good deal here and she's not budging.

01:40:50

So, now what you're going to do is just just massage the tail. >> What you mean massage? I would like you

01:40:56

to massage the tail. Just just maybe rub back and forth on her tail and there's going to be an

01:41:01

instant reaction. Yep. Just keep doing that. She's not going to love that. Oh,

01:41:06

she's hissing >> because there might be something back here that she can't see.

01:41:11

>> Well, exactly. She doesn't want something interacting with her tail.

01:41:15

>> She seems to be stuck to my the the diary. >> The diary itself. >> Okay, girl. Okay, girl. Okay, girl.

01:41:25

>> She doesn't like that. >> Well, actually, why don't you just lift

01:41:29

her lift that coil over up onto the table? You got this. Just like you lifted the other snake. You're going to

01:41:34

have to do this to get through this. >> Just lift. >> No. See the part that's hanging over?

01:41:37

Just lift it up onto the table. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. It's so

01:41:43

>> How would you describe it? >> It's like really soft, but then like you feels

01:41:49

like pure muscle. >> Pure muscle. Yeah. She's very She's This is a very very strong snake. It's so

01:41:54

heavy. I can't even pull it up. >> I I need I need you to try. >> I think she's resisting.

01:42:00

>> Come on. You're not going to hurt her. Just right around the edge of the table.

01:42:03

Just up onto the table. >> I can't. It's too >> Come on. You got this. You got yourself.

01:42:09

Pretend we're in the Amazon. And this snake is strangling me to death. And the

01:42:12

only way to save my life is to take that snake's tail up. >> But David,

01:42:17

>> she's gripping to just take >> MY EYES ARE POPPING OUT OF MY HEAD.

01:42:20

>> NO, I'M BEING SERIOUS. SHE'S LIKE, SHE I can't I can't move her off. She's like,

01:42:24

>> "Yes, you can." Come on. Pull her out. Bring her around. You got this. Look at

01:42:27

your arms. >> I know. I know. I'm scared. >> You got this. You got this. Believe in

01:42:31

yourself. Come on. Get her up. Just Just do it. There. There is no try. >> She doesn't want then. I'm going to die.

01:42:40

>> Don't make Don't make me come over to the other side of that snake and get

01:42:42

her. Come on. You got Yeah. There we go. There we go. That wasn't so bad. She's wrapped around the diary again.

01:42:51

She's got inside the diary. >> Okay, listen. The diary has to remain intact, girl.

01:42:55

>> So, yeah, this is >> this is a beautiful, beautiful snake. But you sort of see how people have a

01:43:03

misconception about snakes. Now, what she's trying to do right now, even this

01:43:07

snake that knows what what humans are, she's just trying to say, "All right,

01:43:10

get me out of here." You know, she's going, "Where can I go rest?"

01:43:13

>> And what what does she eat when she grows up? What do these >> Well, Burmese pythons, they get big. So,

01:43:19

she's going to start with rats and birds and frogs, and they start small. They

01:43:23

start just like the ball python. But when she gets big, you're talking about,

01:43:26

I mean, Burmese pythons, deer, dogs, >> humans. >> Uh, Burmese pythons, I don't think, are

01:43:33

confirmed eating humans. Reticulated pythons, which is actually the longest. Interesting fact, anacondas are the

01:43:39

biggest snake on Earth. Reticulated pythons are the longest and they're the only ones that are on YouTube

01:43:46

having eaten humans. They're confirmed maneaters, but these berms, they're just big,

01:43:52

powerful snakes and they're >> they're pretty placid. >> It's such a beautiful animal, even

01:43:58

though it is a little bit scary um for some reason. >> Yeah. >> I think maybe because we've all grown up

01:44:03

watching films like Anaconda that we think of snakes as being >> terrifying, but it's such a beautiful

01:44:08

>> I see what you mean with the table. Yeah, exactly. >> She's really in there. Yeah. Yeah.

01:44:12

>> All right. Maybe you were right. See, this is interesting. Anacondas have

01:44:15

bigger. >> Yeah. They don't like being touched on the head and they don't like um they

01:44:19

don't like their >> cloa touched the base of their tail, their vent. >> Should people be scared of snakes? Do

01:44:26

you >> I think people should be respectful of snakes the same way you're respectful of

01:44:30

heights. Go get Steven. Good girl. Good girl. Go get him. Go get the diary. >> Would she eat the banana? No, no, they

01:44:40

are what we call obligate carnivores. They can only eat uh other animals, but I mean, whatever they can fit.

01:44:49

Unfortunately, Burmese pythons have been introduced to Florida and there's no

01:44:54

predators in Florida that can handle the Burmese python. So, they're eating the

01:44:58

alligators, the birds, the native wildlife. They've become a terrible invasive species, which is sort of bad

01:45:04

PR for Burmese pythons. But when they're in their native habitat of Southeast

01:45:08

Asia, they're just wonderful big apex predator snakes. >> Can she bite?

01:45:15

>> 100%. They have big teeth. If she was to bite one of us right now, it would draw

01:45:19

quite a bit of blood. I mean, she has to be able to latch on to her prey, right? So, all the more

01:45:26

credit goes to her for not doing that. Go get Steven. Good girl. Good girl. >> Maybe you should have the head down that

01:45:33

end. >> I think I think See, now what I'm doing is I'm massaging the tail because I know

01:45:38

that she's going to go for you. Good girl. Yeah. Right at him. Right at him. Now, come on. Come on. Let her go.

01:45:48

Yes. Good girl. Oh, this is so great. This Burmese python is wants to know what is inside the diary of a CEO.

01:46:00

She's trying to hide. >> Yeah, she is trying to hide. And so, you know what? We're going to let her do

01:46:04

that. She's been a very good sport. And I'm going to take her away. >> That's fantastic.

01:46:11

>> It is a be It's such a majestic animal. Like I slightly scary, but also

01:46:16

>> going to hand her over the cameras. >> This message is brought to you by Apple

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Offer may not be available everywhere. Terms and limitations apply. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to

01:46:52

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CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm

01:47:01

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to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now,

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we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed

01:47:34

community, head to the link in the description below or go to daccircle.com. I will speak to you then. What would you

01:47:42

say to a young person who's probably in the pursuit of a completely different

01:47:44

dream? Are there anything that you consider to be transferable for anyone in the pursuit of their dreams that you

01:47:49

learned in those 15 years in your barefoot machete days? >> Yeah, I think that that you have to log

01:47:55

your time as a beginner in order to earn your time as a master. And there's this beautiful saying that I

01:48:04

start the book with which is that the master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried.

01:48:12

And that to me is beautiful. And so it was like when I went down there and began

01:48:17

even trying to catch a fish, you know, I didn't know how to do anything. And and

01:48:22

and I would look at these conservation biologists and and just think, my god, I'm never going to be one of them

01:48:28

because I'm never going to have the grades to be a conservation biologist. Now, at the point we're at now where we

01:48:33

are, we have this global movement around conservation. We have this huge conservation organization that's

01:48:38

fighting to do something historic, I do get messages from kids all over the world that say, I I I really want your

01:48:45

job or I want to get out there and I want to do I want to follow my dreams. >> What would you say to them?

01:48:51

>> Well, I had a kid recently that he he messaged me and he said, I really want

01:48:54

to study great whites. And he said, 'But marine biology is so competitive and and

01:48:58

none of the professors will give me, you know, you and I said, 'Listen, forget

01:49:02

all that. I said, 'd do your school, get it done.' I said, 'But go to the dock.

01:49:06

Find out where the preeminent marine biologists are going to go do their great white research. Go to that dock,

01:49:13

help them with their bags. Get off your phone, get off the internet, stop asking

01:49:17

permission, get on your feet and go there to the waves. And sooner or later they're going to need help with their

01:49:25

bags. Sooner or later they might invite invite you on the boat. And after you've

01:49:29

been helping with their bags and invited on the boat, maybe you take some pictures of a pivotal moment that they

01:49:34

use to communicate their work to the world. At some point you can find a way to make yourself useful to them. And if

01:49:41

you do that for long enough, you might just end up being somebody that's a core

01:49:45

member of their team. >> People at those family barbecues must have asked you if you had a plan B.

01:49:50

>> Are you a fan of plan B's? I think I actually think that I'm not the example

01:49:54

to follow because I went so I had I burned the boats. I had no plan B. And and and now as I'm sitting across the

01:50:02

table from you, it's very easy. I remember being younger and hearing these people and you listen to a successful

01:50:08

business person go, you know, if I could do it, then anyone could do it. If it could happen to me, then shut up. You

01:50:13

already made it. Like and it's like if you if you read the pages of that book

01:50:18

and how many times I almost died, had infections, almost fell off a cliffs, got bitten by animals. Also, the the

01:50:24

internal struggle of then being 32, you know, 18, they oh, go follow your dreams. 25, they're like, yeah, that's

01:50:32

cool. And then something happened when I was around 32, 33, that was sort of the

01:50:38

the lower point for me, right? My my dad was dropping me off somewhere one day and and and my dad would always always

01:50:45

supporting me, bringing me to the jungle, taking me to the airport, bringing me home. I didn't have the

01:50:49

money to get myself there with taxis and Ubers and stuff. And but there came this moment where, you

01:50:55

know, I'd written my first book. Harper College. I've gotten a real publisher. The book came out and it went

01:51:02

nowhere. So even that I'd tried to be, you know, on Discovery Channel. I'd tried to write

01:51:09

a book. I wrote a good book. I knew people liked it. It had a high rating. Didn't do anything. That didn't change

01:51:14

anything. I'd started an organization. I started jungle keepers. I'd turned

01:51:18

loggers into and gold miners into conservation rangers. We protected like 50,000 acres of rainforest, but still

01:51:24

there was some feeling like like it just wasn't, you know, you're striking Flint

01:51:28

and like it's just not the fire is not catching. There's something missing. It

01:51:31

wasn't happening. He my dad went, you know, we love you no matter what. Ah. And I went, "Don't do this." He

01:51:42

said, "No, no, no. You know, you know, if you eventually," he goes, "If you

01:51:45

need to jump ship and start over," he's like, "You know, we'll help you with

01:51:48

whatever you need." And I said, "What do you mean start over?" And he was like,

01:51:51

"Well, you know, I mean, what are you going to do this jungle guy thing forever?" And I went, "Oh, God. Oh,

01:51:57

God." Like, no. And you know, and then he said, "And if and if you do need to

01:52:01

do that forever, it's okay." And it's like, but they they didn't they couldn't

01:52:05

conceptualize it. And it was very soon after that that that on that graph. It was very very soon after that. It was

01:52:12

actually right at the point that I quit right before COVID. And this is this is sort of the the lowest point that I was

01:52:18

supposed to never tell anybody. And I wrote about it in the book where before CO when CO hit, I couldn't get to the

01:52:24

jungle. Our whole team had CO. Peru was the hardest hit country in the world. I mean all of my staff, my friends, my

01:52:31

family in Peru, they were all on oxygen tanks. Whose mother whose sister whose daughter was dying? We bankrupted

01:52:37

ourselves sending money. We the whole we took the whole ecoourism businesses sent

01:52:41

all the money to Peru to get our friends oxygen tanks and to keep our family alive. And

01:52:48

it was also during that time that I realized I have nowhere to go like in this world. I was like I don't make

01:52:53

sense in this world anymore. And I I called my best friend. I called Mosen my best friend. I said and I said

01:53:00

don't I said don't tell anybody what I'm about to say but I said I'm going to go

01:53:03

get a job. I said, "I've been doing this for so long. I tried really hard. I

01:53:08

tried for 15 years." I said, "I'm out of gas. I I'm out of I'm out of ideas. I

01:53:13

have I have been burning so bright. I've been making making the fire myself."

01:53:20

I said, "I got nothing. I got no more ideas." And of course, he said, "You

01:53:24

shut up." He said, "You inspired me. You started Jungle Keepers. You know, I

01:53:28

don't want to ever hear this from you getting hung up on me." But I said, but

01:53:31

I told him, I said, "I quit." I said, "I'm out. I'm done. I'm done. I have no

01:53:34

hope left. And exactly a week after I made that phone call where I quit, our first big

01:53:42

funer reached out. A billionaire named Dax Silva had seen my video of saying the Amazon is destroying and we have the

01:53:49

people. We have the plan. We have the infrastructure. All we need is the funding and we can save this river. And

01:53:55

the week after I quit in the in the alchemy of the universe, that's when he called me and said, "You know what?

01:54:01

Green light. Let's do it. How about a five-year commitment where I fund jungle

01:54:07

keepers and we turn the local ranger, the local loggers and gold miners into conservation rangers. We get you and

01:54:13

some of your guys a salary and we make this whole thing viable. And by the way, let's protect another 100,000 acres of

01:54:18

forest. And if we hadn't spent years and years and years chipping at the same piece of

01:54:27

granite, just just whether or not you can hammer through granite depends whether or not you continue to whack the

01:54:33

hammer. And so for me and JJ, for Mosen, who was sort of the first iteration, the

01:54:39

first person that came and and took the photos that allowed us to communicate all of those photos of burning forest

01:54:45

and the wreckage. He was the first guy. He came in the barefoot machete days and

01:54:48

he said, I mean, that was at a time where I didn't even know anything was ever going to happen. And he said, you

01:54:53

know, what you guys are doing here is special. We have to show it to the world. And so on that graph, nothing

01:54:58

nothing nothing. And then a little blip, all of a sudden, we had a funer. And then once you once you get a funer, when

01:55:05

when you're when you're doing it all by yourself, nobody's rooting for you. And

01:55:08

then once you once you start once you start to get a little momentum and a little notoriety, all of a sudden then

01:55:12

everybody comes. So then then I quit. And that was the lowest point. And then all of a sudden he rescued us and we

01:55:18

started going up and then we started sharing it and then we got to the United Nations and then we got to and all of a

01:55:23

sudden we started gaining this momentum and that that that that magic that Jane had given us with her words also served

01:55:31

as as sort of a blessing that carried us forward because people said well if Jane

01:55:35

Goodall gave you this Excalibur sword of her blessing then then go forth and save the Amazon

01:55:43

and everything changed. How do people know in the pursuit of their dreams whether

01:55:49

they should throw in the towel or not? Like how based on your experience there, if someone came to you and said, "Look,

01:55:55

I've been I've been doing something for a long time and I don't know whether to

01:55:58

keep going or not." Is there a framework or an idea that you might offer them?

01:56:07

I think that in my case if I follow the rational advice I would fail. If I was giving myself advice as a

01:56:18

rational person I would say after the first 10 years cut your losses and stop like what are

01:56:26

you doing? It doesn't make any sense cuz then even after 15 years what am I going

01:56:29

to do? Go then enter the workforce with no skills and no resume and no nothing. I just it was getting more and more

01:56:35

extreme. And I was like, "Okay, well, I'm just going to be this Jack Sparrow

01:56:38

jungle character." I don't know, for for everyone, it's going to be

01:56:43

different. But I can tell you this much, if you're not willing to go allin, you're not going to win. Like, you have

01:56:51

to take that risk to get that reward. And so, you go, "Okay, I've been I've

01:56:55

been I've been doing this thing for 10 years, and and I just Well, you're 100%

01:57:00

not going to get it if you stop. But at the same time, there's this haunting

01:57:04

quote in the in the Razer's Edge, this book, where they say, "Many are called

01:57:09

and few are chosen." And I think that goes for whether you're starting a

01:57:12

business or a band or trying to be a writer or whatever it is. It's you have

01:57:17

to know when it's when it ceases to be chasing your dreams and becomes sort of

01:57:22

a sad suicide. And then and then you know at what point I was very worried that it was going to become my identity

01:57:29

that I was the jungle guy so I'd just keep being the jungle guy >> and then there's no getting out of it.

01:57:33

I'd have to do it because I said I would. And so I think for people maybe having an option B is a good idea. That

01:57:39

might be one of the things that I learned is that having some sort of an option B might be good. This is um as

01:57:46

you've highlighted the great risk of giving people advice when you've reached

01:57:50

the top of the mountain >> because it's easy from the top of the mountain to recite how you managed to

01:57:55

climb. But you you like even when I think about myself as a podcaster like if someone came and asked me

01:58:00

>> how do you build a podcast or how do you build a business whatever >> I probably won't point at the luck and

01:58:06

the timing and the fortune as much. I'll point at the things that I did intentionally. Um, and I'm completely

01:58:12

unaware of the fact that actually, you know, even with the podcast, like starting a podcast in 2020 when we first

01:58:17

came to YouTube was like the perfect timing. >> Yeah. >> And at the time, we didn't know it was

01:58:21

the perfect timing. >> Yeah. >> We were just out there on the wave and

01:58:24

then as it came into shore. >> Mhm. >> And so, but you look at the statistics

01:58:28

and go, look, there's a lot of people that want to be conservters or entrepreneurs, whatever.

01:58:35

>> Most of them don't make it. So, they're not sat here talking. They're not they're not here

01:58:42

now. >> Yes. >> Because they, you know, something happened, they gave up, they couldn't

01:58:45

make it, the business went bust. >> And there's a really interesting I'm

01:58:48

probably going to butcher this, but it's an interesting story I read about these

01:58:52

fighter jets. I think it was in World War I. And um you might have heard the story. These fighter jets come back with

01:58:58

holes in them. So everybody sat there, all these engineers said, "Well, if we

01:59:02

want to figure out how to make better fighter jets, let's study where the bullet holes are because then we know

01:59:07

where people are shooting." >> So they took the jets down. and they looked at where the bullet holes were

01:59:10

and they said, "We'll reinforce those sections." An engineer at the back, and

01:59:14

I've forgotten his name, but I'll put them up on the screen, shouted out,

01:59:18

"Shouldn't we look at where there isn't holes?" >> Because where there isn't holes, those

01:59:23

ones didn't come back. >> And this is the whole the problem with survivorship bias

01:59:28

>> is actually maybe you should be getting advice from the people in the graveyard,

01:59:31

not the people that came back. Maybe you should be looking at where the whole the

01:59:35

bullets didn't hit because that's the fatal area if that makes sense. And I

01:59:39

think there's a lot it's really in the last couple of years I've got more

01:59:42

cautious about giving people advice for the same reasons you said. >> Yeah. I mean you got to remember every

01:59:46

one of the frozen bodies on Everest were once a highly motivated rich person that

01:59:51

thought they could succeed and now they're an icicle. M >> and so I mean it's surreal to be sitting

01:59:59

here especially today on the day that I got the news that this book is a New York Times bestseller

02:00:05

and again now I'm immediately I'm I'm I'm having that reaction to myself where

02:00:09

I'm going don't give advice because they they should not do that that I did very

02:00:14

dangerous things there very very dangerous things including risking my life not I don't mean risking my life

02:00:20

with anacondas and risking my life with being hunted by narco traffickers I mean

02:00:25

risk risking spending my life doing something that would have no benefit. Risking spending my life simply just

02:00:32

being an adventurer. Great. Okay. Well, how am I contributing? The whole thing was that I wanted to have purpose. I

02:00:37

wanted to have a meaning and and change things. And so I I this is not a blueprint for people to do what I did.

02:00:45

It's a blueprint of oh look what this person did. But people have to I mean that's the whole game, right? That's the

02:00:51

other thing we've become very precious about, you know, curating our lives and

02:00:55

making sure. But you know what, one thing that the unconted tribes or reading about the Comanches

02:01:01

um or watching an animal hunt, you know, you watch a tiger hunt and in every single hunt that the tiger goes on, they

02:01:07

are they're they're betting all the chips. Like a large deer can kick and

02:01:11

split their skull or knock their front teeth out with a hoof. And that might be the last hunt that tiger ever goes on,

02:01:16

but sort of betting the house is part of the game. And so that's part of where I

02:01:21

got to where where I was so many years in and once once we got to a certain point once we you know there was that

02:01:27

there was that that dip where I said maybe I'm not this guy and you have to choose who you are right it's like you

02:01:34

know the oracle told said to Neo she goes you know you're not the one you go

02:01:38

okay you know and I I I did that to myself I went well I'm not this isn't

02:01:42

going going to work but then once then then a few years later if you talked even if you talked to me two years ago I

02:01:48

would have I don't care what happens. I'm just going to keep riding boats through the

02:01:52

Amazon. It'll be fine. I didn't know that it was going to go like this. And

02:01:58

that now we're all of a sudden now we are the ones responsible for carrying on

02:02:02

Jane's message of hope of reminding people that you can turn around a seemingly terminal situation where the

02:02:12

entropy of global modernization is destroying one of the largest ecosystems on Earth. What could one person possibly

02:02:20

do? Well, we found a way. >> There is something poetic in the idea that you were pushed to your edge of

02:02:27

being able to survive >> and at the moment when >> you got right to the edge of your own

02:02:32

survival. >> Yeah. >> The torch of helping the Amazon to survive was then passed to you.

02:02:38

>> When I was a kid, you learn these stories. You hear the old stories where,

02:02:41

you know, the young man goes on an expedition and along the way he meets a a beggar and he helps the beggar cross

02:02:46

the bridge and then, you know, he's going through this way and he meets some

02:02:48

bird that's stuck in a in a net and he helps the bird and then, you know, then

02:02:51

later on when he finds the princess and he's trying to fight the dragon and then

02:02:54

all of a sudden the beggar helps and then the bird gets him out of the thing and it's like, oh, these people come in

02:02:58

and they help. That was the archetypal story that I got. And I think that that's also the archetypal story that

02:03:04

then I ended up living where it's like, you know, JJ said, "We should I'm local.

02:03:08

We should protect this forest. This place we should protect." And I was like, "That's amazing." And I and he and

02:03:14

he had the keys to the Amazon. We got to go on adventures. And then it was like Mosen showed up. He's like, "I got the

02:03:19

cameraman. I could show the world what you do." And then we had this guy Stefan

02:03:23

showed up and other people showed up. And all of a sudden, you know, you start to amass this team of Avengers where you

02:03:28

go, "Wait, wait, hold on. These people are really talented people that have and

02:03:31

we didn't realize, you know, JJ's the jungle man. Mosen's a photographer.

02:03:35

Stefan came in. He was running teams at Apple. >> Jane Jane's the mentor.

02:03:39

>> Jane's Jane's the wizard. Jane's the Gandalf. >> Yeah.

02:03:42

>> Jane was the one saying, "This is what you got to do. You got to get the ring

02:03:45

to Mount Doom." And uh and then suddenly it happens. But but you can't you can't

02:03:52

tell people that they're going to you know that that whole thing of in in the

02:03:55

movies where it's like you know there's 10 guys with guns and you go how are

02:03:58

they getting out of this one you know and it's like I've been in that situation so many times and I think in

02:04:03

order to have the luck of getting bailed out you either better be a mega black belt and have some real good friends and

02:04:11

they better show up when it counts. And so it's like you don't want to give

02:04:15

people advice to do that because because then you're telling them to to take

02:04:19

risks they shouldn't be taking. But coming from someone who took all the risks, who bet my entire life on

02:04:26

becoming a jungle keeper and saving a river and who bet my entire life on going on these expeditions and jumping

02:04:32

on anacondas and running from elephants when I was in Africa and India, I happened to have made it.

02:04:39

In my job as a podcaster, I meet lots of people who have climbed to the top of their proverbial mountains, whether it's

02:04:44

in comedy or sports or business or >> as a conservationist. And I think one of

02:04:49

the things they do all have in common. >> Yeah. >> Is at some point in their hero's

02:04:54

journey, they took a unusual set of actions for an unusual period of time. >> Yes. And so I think about that as a

02:05:02

principle maybe that can be transferable is if you do want an unusual outcome whatever that means

02:05:09

unusual behavior of some sort is the precursor. And actually at moments in my life where I hit fatigue or

02:05:17

>> things are more challenging. I always remind myself of that these days. I

02:05:21

always say this is probably like why most people don't get an unusual outcome

02:05:27

because this was is the logical moment to like [ __ ] pack throw it in pack pack up the bags and go. And um when I

02:05:34

look at some of my great mentors in the different fields that I'm in, that's

02:05:37

exactly what they did. They just persisted for like an unusual amount of time. >> And I think persistence in your story is

02:05:43

such a throughine. >> Yes. I would say relentlessness is the most powerful element if you're

02:05:52

trying to achieve your dreams because you're going to get knocked down again

02:05:57

and again and you find yourself in the rain lost in the forest and you can't

02:06:02

even see the trail. I always say that, you know, we didn't even know where we

02:06:06

wanted to go, you know, and it's like we just kept doing it. It's like the painter who just

02:06:12

goes, "I don't even know what I'm painting, but I'm just going to keep

02:06:14

learning how these colors work, you know, just just keep going." Because it's an obsession. And you can't really

02:06:20

you can't really fake an obsession, right? If you if you're going to spend 10,000 hours

02:06:27

throwing a basketball through a hoop, you're doing that because you love it.

02:06:31

And there's work and there's discipline and there's times where you're going to

02:06:34

feel that dip and that rise. But if you're really doing it, if you're even

02:06:38

in the game, it's because you love it. Mhm. >> So if you can find something that you

02:06:42

love, then you can start building that irrefutable proof of who you are because you can go, okay, well, I've logged a

02:06:48

certain amount of time doing this thing I love. >> What is meaning to to you in your life?

02:06:55

What is that? Is it responsibility? Is it something else? >> Well, there's that thing of that you you

02:07:01

the more meaning you your your meaning is directly correlated to how much responsibility you take on. That that

02:07:07

we've all heard a hundred times. But to me, it's it's I I've I've lived in a

02:07:12

world where things are reduced to such um an incredibly basic level. It's like

02:07:18

I've lived in the mud with a machete and if I want to eat, I get a fish. And so

02:07:24

like the truth of the rain and rocks has become my sort of religion and the way that I connect with God through the very

02:07:32

simple chemical physical elements of the universe. >> Do you believe in God?

02:07:36

>> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Have you always believed in God?

02:07:42

>> Uh I think you know everybody goes through that period in their teens and

02:07:46

20s where you sort of go I I can believe in whatever I want or I could not believe in whatever I want. And then I

02:07:52

think as you as you mature I think a lot of people come back. It's also society

02:07:58

it became very very uncool for a while to say that. You almost couldn't say it.

02:08:03

You almost had to sneak your ass to church, you know. Um the if if the people that wake up and go

02:08:11

all this is very unimpressive to me. I'm a walking miracle and I think there's no

02:08:16

God and I'm unimpressed. It's like you you have a lot of delusions my friend.

02:08:21

Um we are floating on a rock through space right now. Not a single person has an explanation of what we're doing here.

02:08:27

All these incredible chemical processes are happening in the rivers in our veins

02:08:31

and in the Amazon. When I dip my hands into the river and I drink from the river and you hold your arm up in the

02:08:38

sun and you watch the vapor come out of your skin, the same moisture that you just drank and it joins the clouds,

02:08:44

rains back on the jungle and becomes the river again. And you are part of the cycle.

02:08:51

You just tend to believe in God because you feel like it's flowing. The river and the sky are flowing through

02:09:00

you. And that's the nature version. I mean, it can also just be hugging your

02:09:04

grandma. >> I wondered if your deeper understanding of science and evolution and all these

02:09:11

things might have made you more atheist or agnostic. >> No, I think science is the language of

02:09:17

God. I don't think that they're opposing forces. >> Do you do you believe in evolution and

02:09:24

natural selection? >> It's not a matter of believing in evolution. We have we have we have

02:09:28

animals in transitional forms. It's very clear through the fossil record that

02:09:31

absolutely evolution is happening. I just think that everyone I don't I'm not

02:09:35

sure where this black and white argument even came from. I don't think it makes

02:09:38

sense to me then the wild is the church. And so when I see trees cut down I I feel it. I feel like people people are

02:09:47

if we have a role as humans and you said what's meaning if we have a role as

02:09:51

humans on this planet it is to care for each other and the other things. Seems like that's the game right? There's

02:09:56

drugs and addiction and and and and cheating and stealing and lying. There's

02:10:00

all these there's all these pitfalls that you can fall into so easily. The game is rigged so that all these things

02:10:06

feel really good, right? Real good while you're doing them. But you can literally

02:10:13

lose the game permanently. You know, you do a little bit of meth because it felt good. All of a sudden,

02:10:19

you're a methhead and all of a sudden you're dead. It's like you can very

02:10:22

quickly get, you know, couple of drinks a day over the course of a couple of decades and you miss a couple of

02:10:29

birthday parties and all of a sudden, you know, it's like you can you can very

02:10:31

quickly in the wild it teaches you the that fidiousness, you know, if you don't check your boat

02:10:39

every day before it rains, after it rains, make sure it didn't fill with water. It's like the line between

02:10:44

survival and death is so small. And so I think that the meaning I found is that we are floating on a rock in space and

02:10:54

there's only so many animals and people here and life is the antithesis to all

02:10:59

of the frigid blackness that is the universe. And this is the only place that we know for certain that life

02:11:05

exists, right? And we live at this moment in history when we're losing animals like elephants and polar bears

02:11:11

and tigers and the rainforests and the ocean fisheries, the whales, and we still have a chance to save them. And if

02:11:19

we save them, then our children have clean air, fresh water, beautiful places. The world continues to work as

02:11:26

it always has. And so the relationship that we have to the people around us and to the creatures around us and to the

02:11:33

environment around us is incredibly meaningful. There was a little meme I saw where it said uh if you're being if

02:11:39

you're overwhelmed by the events of the world, go outside and look at the birds.

02:11:43

You are as meaningless as a sparrow. And I went, man, as an ecologist, each animal plays a crucial role in the

02:11:50

ecosystem. You know, hummingbirds are transporting pollen and the snakes are eating the rats and the the the the

02:11:56

predators are regulating all of the prey animals and the trees are providing shade and the animals are engineering

02:12:02

the the forest and the forest is engineering the animals. You are not the birds are not pointless. Whoever wrote

02:12:07

that was stupid and the people reading it aren't pointless either is the point.

02:12:16

Many humans think that we are a dominant, more important species than the snake that you just wrapped around

02:12:22

my neck or the sparrow in the trees. Do you believe that's the case? Do you believe that humans are more important

02:12:29

than >> If you were to remove humans from planet Earth, everything would get better in

02:12:37

like days, just like in CO, like the national parks, the bears are frolicking on the trails and everything. Um, if you

02:12:43

were to remove ants from planet Earth, nature would collapse, right? So, if you want to talk about ecological

02:12:49

importance, we're not that important. That you'd have to think more holistically. We're just one of many

02:12:54

different species. >> But we were able to, you know, rule the world because of our intellect.

02:13:00

>> But we are the apex or the human brain is the most complex thing that we know

02:13:03

of. And so, in that way, we are the stewards. We are the jungle keepers. we are the ones that are supposed to be

02:13:11

caring for the rest of this. And so again, whether or not we can I mean, there's sort of this this people say

02:13:17

that, you know, there's times are worse than they've ever been. And it's like I

02:13:20

go I'm down in the jungle, right? So I'm down there. I miss out on a lot. I come

02:13:23

out I come up here and people are people are I rate about some new news thing, right? What someone said to someone or

02:13:31

what someone and I always come up and I'm like, man, civilizations rise and fall.

02:13:37

the health of our oceans, the existence of our rainforests. We're dealing with a with a a a one-way

02:13:44

door in history right now. You think World War II was big, the ecological collapse of our planet is pending, but

02:13:52

it's not too late. Jane was right. There's still hope, but we're the last

02:13:55

generation that's going to have it. And so, it's like, first of all, if you feel

02:13:58

meaningless, go put your boots on and help. You know, if Churchill the day before

02:14:04

D-Day was going, "Ah, it's probably not going to work." What would have

02:14:08

happened? And it's like we are alive at the most exciting time in history. Not

02:14:11

only is there a million things that need to be done, there's people all over the

02:14:14

world that's doing it. So, one of the things I've started telling to young

02:14:16

people, the advice that I can give is go find someone that you admire. Go find a

02:14:22

master who's doing the work that you want to emulate and put 5 years in working for them. Don't go try to start

02:14:28

your own project right away. Don't go try to start saving the world before you

02:14:31

know how it works. Go find the guy that's tracking the snow leopards that's

02:14:36

up in the mountains. Find him. Follow him. Learn from him. If it's a business, go find the person

02:14:43

that's doing whatever it is you want to do. Learn from them. I've seen pe

02:14:47

brilliant people with great business ideas that don't have the people skills.

02:14:51

Go learn those people skills. Go work with the people that have those people. That easy common touch where they can

02:14:55

just shake your hand and all of a sudden you feel like they're your best friend.

02:14:58

my whole thing. I mean, us starting an organization that can protect the jungle, me and JJ could could could

02:15:05

whack and machete and catch all the anacas we want. Mosen was taking pictures up and we had this team that

02:15:10

was like doing, you know, the motor was going, but it wasn't starting. And then I mentioned the guy Stefan who was

02:15:17

running teams at Apple. Now, this guy, this man knows how to run a spreadsheet. This man knows how to run teams of

02:15:24

people. He knows how to organize things. So, he came in and wait, what are you trying to do? you're trying to do this,

02:15:29

why don't you do it this way? You save a bunch of money by doing it this way. And

02:15:32

he started running the teams. And so we needed we realized we we we needed things that we didn't even know existed.

02:15:37

And so again, the relentless, the relentlessness, you you survived to another day. But for people going out,

02:15:45

find those people because we learned things from these people that we meet. I mean, even from Dax, he came in and

02:15:51

provided the funding. But also, this is a man that won capitalism. As a billionaire, he's someone that knows how

02:15:56

to run a business. He said, "Okay, so this is how you're going to run your

02:15:59

ranger program. Tell me how you're going to do this." Just as a friend and

02:16:02

consultant, you end up learning so much from him. >> The very antithesis of what I saw when

02:16:08

you played the video of the unconted tribe is some of the things going on in at the moment in California and Texas

02:16:16

with humanoid robots and AI. >> Yeah. >> It's like the opposite.

02:16:21

>> Yes. >> You know, Elon, >> we live in opposite worlds. Yeah. I I

02:16:24

wondered if you had any thoughts about this world we're heading into where people might have microchips in their

02:16:29

brain and we'll have humanoid robots and they're forecasting there'll be a

02:16:32

billion um of these humanoid robots in the future. And AI is now so intelligent that

02:16:37

>> they're saying within a year or two there'll be AIs that are smarter than

02:16:40

every human that's ever lived. And even one example of the humanoid robot situation that blew my mind is when one

02:16:46

of the robots learns something all of the robots learn it. >> And obviously you were just talking up

02:16:51

there about having to learn from mentors. with humanoid robots and the future that we seem to be huddling

02:16:55

towards. >> Um, it seems like they might be the the apex species. I wondered if you've

02:17:03

thought much about the technological acceleration of the earth and the risk of that and because it's the

02:17:10

opposite of everything you're talking about in so many ways. >> It is and it isn't. I mean, I like I

02:17:15

love living in modern times. I think that like heart surgery and and your iPad and the cameras. I think like I

02:17:22

love so much of modern technology um flight. My god, how I love flight. We can go anywhere. Would have taken them

02:17:30

eight months. Um this new obsession that everybody has it it not a lot of things

02:17:36

get me biblical but it makes me think of the the you know thou shalt not with the

02:17:40

false idols. Everyone is so obsessed about AI. Shut up. Go outside. touch some grass. Don't worry about the

02:17:47

robots. We don't live in Minority Report yet. And it's like, if it's coming,

02:17:51

first of all, we are the engineers of our reality, right? It's us. So, where

02:17:56

are these robots going to come from? Unless we make them. And if they're so smart, well, then get on your knees and

02:18:02

pray to them. You know, it's like do whatever. But I I think that as as as more and more people like

02:18:09

rebel against the AI slop they see in their feeds, as more and more people appreciate real human art and what it

02:18:18

takes a person to stare at a wall with a with some paint and create something that could move you to tears. I think

02:18:25

that we're going through a period of delirious adolescence with a new technology. Just like at Y2K, everyone

02:18:31

was like, "Everything's going to shut down and nothing's going to work." And

02:18:33

it's like, "Okay, great. I'll be on a hike. The world's going to continue to

02:18:38

work." And, you know, they've been saying we're going to have flying cars

02:18:42

for how many years? We still don't have them. Everyone's like, "We should go

02:18:45

colonize Mars." Like, great. [ __ ] Mars, though. Yeah. Let's fix this planet. Prove that we're capable of

02:18:53

managing. It's like the kid going, "I want to take over the company." And the

02:18:56

father going, "Get your room clean." I think what you do might be hugely

02:19:00

benefited by everything that's going on with technology and AI in part because

02:19:05

>> I think people are people's appreciation for community, for nature, for things

02:19:10

that are irreplaceably human is only going to increase. Yeah, >> I have, you know, I have a couple of

02:19:15

like wild hypotheses and one of them is that people are going to want to in a world where we no longer need to gather

02:19:21

in cities for um collective labor, which is basically why cities exist in large part,

02:19:26

>> they will then want to be out in nature. Yeah. >> Because our Maslovian need of being out

02:19:30

in the trees and the oil we get and the mental health benefits are going to remain the same even if there is robots.

02:19:36

And actually, if I don't need to be in a city, where would I rather be? >> In the beautiful nature.

02:19:41

>> In the beautiful nature. I was saying to my friends the other day, I think people

02:19:43

are going to start buying up farmland and natural places because >> you notice that when everyone sort of

02:19:50

makes it and gets rich enough that they can do what they want, they go get a house in the country.

02:19:54

>> Exactly. >> Where they can raise their kids, breathe some air, not just traffic exhaust. And

02:19:59

but what I'm what I'm not understanding though is why everyone's so worried

02:20:03

about it. I mean, everyone's acting like it's the beginning of Terminator 2,

02:20:07

except no one's catching on, right? and and but and but but again if you listen

02:20:12

to what's the guy's name who runs Nvidia? >> Um Jensen Juan. >> Yes. His I I listened to him on on Joe

02:20:18

Rogan. It was amazing cuz Rogan has the ability like most like like which is why

02:20:23

he's so good at it. He asked the questions we all want to ask. And he was like when is AI going to take over? And

02:20:28

Jensen was like listen um AI is going to optimize how effective humans can be at

02:20:33

their jobs. Right? Like he was like I think he said with radiologists he goes we thought we'd not need any more

02:20:38

radiologists. He's like it it made radiologists better at their jobs. >> And it's like I think that the hysteria

02:20:44

of like robots taking well that's good. Let's use some robots to deliver

02:20:47

packages like great. But I don't think that this this this this anticipatory doom that everyone's

02:20:54

feeling on these fallen times of everything's about to change again. Really like literally actually guys go

02:21:01

touch the grass. Like it's I'm serious. It's like it's not I come back from the

02:21:05

jungle where I'm fighting to save the trees that make the air that these people are breathing and I'm I'm a

02:21:12

little bit a little bit shocked by the the amount of hysteria that I'm seeing

02:21:16

and like I'm down there getting hunted by narot traffickers and and and and running from the flames and these people

02:21:22

are like you won't believe what I saw on the news today and I'm like I got it I'm

02:21:27

going back. >> Do you consume this stuff? Are you on social media? >> No. Do you have apps and social media

02:21:33

apps on your phone? >> It's funny. I got into a fight. Somebody I'm sure that we'll get this reaction

02:21:38

for this conversation, but people kind of get mad at me about this where I go, I don't I don't want to that sort of

02:21:43

civilizations rise and fall thing. A lot of people get very offended because they're very invested in the news cycle

02:21:48

and and they're very hysterical and they almost want to hold on to their hysterics, right? And to me, it's very

02:21:54

important. I was just sitting at a table with people and they said, you know, the

02:21:57

world's going to [ __ ] It's never been worse. First of all, live at the most

02:22:00

peaceful time in history. There's better technology. We can save your life. We

02:22:05

can almost, you know, cure so many different diseases. We've never We've

02:22:08

have this expanding compassion where our species has learned to be more compassionate that differences don't

02:22:16

make us less, right? And now we're even expanding that to understand like, oh

02:22:19

wait, the other creatures on this planet matter, too. We've never been more dedicated to compassion. I mean, I was

02:22:26

just at a conservation conference and I was meeting people who are making period

02:22:29

pads for girls in Africa who don't have access to them. I know people who are

02:22:33

trying to save cheetahs. I I'm seeing people doing amazing work all over the

02:22:37

news. And you know what the news is reporting? There was, you know, that there's an

02:22:42

assassination in the Philippines. We're tribal. We're supposed to only know

02:22:45

what's going on in our village. Not doom scrolling through a thousand tragedies a

02:22:50

day. That's of course it's going to send your brain on fire. So, I've I have none

02:22:53

of that. I go on to Instagram. I've curated it so that it's my feed. I see

02:22:58

conservationists rescuing elephants. I see a couple of artists that I really like. I have a couple like just all

02:23:04

really cool stuff. I never go to that like that page that just shows you the internet. I never do that. Just don't do

02:23:09

it. Just don't do it. It's bad for you. It's really really bad for you. I watch

02:23:13

people doing it's scary. >> When I did go to the Amazon, I went with my now fiance

02:23:19

>> and she wanted to do some plant medicine. Yes. >> Um, as I said to you before we started

02:23:26

recording, I couldn't do it because apparently I hadn't followed the diet

02:23:28

regime properly. Yeah. >> But, um, I know that you did Iaska and for anyone that doesn't know, IA is a

02:23:33

powerful psychoactive brew from the Amazon used traditionally by indigenous >> cultures.

02:23:40

How did your experience with Iaska change you? What happened? And how did it change

02:23:45

you? >> Oh god. Again, I'm I don't know why I'm I'm very cuz I'm I'm just I'm just in a

02:23:49

mood today. Um, there's no filter. I don't I don't know. This is one of the

02:23:52

chapters I didn't know if I should put in the book cuz I go take people through

02:23:56

the whole thing because the shaman that we knew was the old shaman. It was JJ's

02:24:01

JJ's old father's best friend. And so he he's old guy. He was been mixing Iawaska

02:24:07

in the forest for decades and learned from the the ancient guys. Now the first time I did it, it wasn't

02:24:16

such a big deal. I saw some geometric patterns. I threw up. I had a conversation with a tree. It was okay.

02:24:23

The problem is the old shaman at 80some fell asleep while he was boiling the Iwasa

02:24:31

and it became more intense in its potency. And so when we drank the normal dosage, we were receiving a mega dose.

02:24:40

And I went on a trip that I would never ever ask to go on. I'm talking about the

02:24:45

creation of the universe, the big bang. I mean, I went through worlds. I for a while I was shapeless in outer space

02:24:52

between solar systems. I mean it was like it was horrifying. And when we woke up the shaman was gone.

02:25:00

You know people drink Iwaska and they go I'm going to go on a journey. I'm going

02:25:03

to focus on this. I want to I have my intentions over here and I want to this was this was just wormholes and

02:25:12

explosions and and and just just craziness. And in the morning, we found the shaman and he was laying in a stream

02:25:18

naked like the way they find ET at the end of the movie. And uh we said, "What

02:25:22

the hell happened?" And he said, "I overboiled the Iawaska." And he said,

02:25:25

"By the way, I retire." And he retired as shaman for a whole week. But but like that was my experience was

02:25:34

that it was so intense that I was just happy to have physical form again. I feel I felt like I died and came back.

02:25:40

It is very very powerful. >> You said in the book I felt changed. I felt changed in the sense that I had

02:25:46

never, you know, I'd come close to dying a bunch of times. I'd come, but I mean

02:25:51

to to be removed and, you know, if you go for surgery, they put you out and it's black and then you come back. This

02:25:56

was I mean, who the hell even knew? It's like it's like opening. It's like you've

02:26:02

lived in a gigantic mansion with 3,000 rooms your entire life, but you've only

02:26:08

ever lived in like one. And then you take this stuff and all of a sudden you go, "Whoa, there's so many

02:26:14

rooms and you have access to them and the doors are all open and you're being

02:26:19

sucked through all of them at once." And so it was like I mean at one point I was

02:26:22

I mean you the jungle vibrates through you. I took the form of different animals. I mean it was it was insanity.

02:26:27

I don't I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. >> What do the local people think it is as

02:26:32

a compound as a psychoactive? What do they think is happening? Do they think it's a religious experience?

02:26:36

>> Absolutely. It's most of them believe that this is the gift of the gods to

02:26:42

humans and it is link between the spirit world and our world. And they say that the Amazon was formed when the anaconda

02:26:52

god slipped out of the mer the milky way and carved the rivers, right? And if you

02:26:57

take the 40,000 species of trees in the Amazon and did trial and error to try and figure out which ones would interact

02:27:05

with each other, it doesn't really make sense that ancient peoples came to this

02:27:08

by accident. And so the shamans say that the gods gave this to humans so that we could

02:27:16

interact with the other side. What is jungle keepers? We've you've used the word several times now and you

02:27:24

know it's word on the front of your new book and I see it's written there on

02:27:27

your chest. But for anyone that doesn't know what Jungle Keepers is, what the

02:27:30

mission of it is, how they might be able to get involved and help, what is it? >> Jungle Keepers is

02:27:36

the method we developed to find a way to save the Amazon. And what we did was this. We worked with the local people.

02:27:44

We spent years understanding what the reality was on the ground. Jungle Keepers is the system with which we

02:27:51

actually are saving the Amazon rainforest. It's how we employ the loggers and gold miners as conservation

02:27:57

rangers. But it's the way that we do that. What we've done usually conservation is done through grant

02:28:03

writing and government deals. We've done this using modern technology using social media for good. We've used I mean

02:28:10

it was through Instagram that we got our first big funer. It was through Instagram and podcasts that we've

02:28:16

reached a lot of our smaller funders. And today, Jungle Keepers is the most direct way

02:28:22

for people around the world to help the indigenous people protect the Amazon. And what that means is we have a donor

02:28:29

program. People go to junglekeepers.org and whether it's for 5, 10, 100, some

02:28:34

people do $1,000 a month. They can directly protect the land and provide jobs for the local people. And it's

02:28:43

saving more animal heartbeats and endangered species and those entire uncontacted tribes all because people

02:28:49

all over the world care and they're willing to part with the price of a Starbucks coffee once a month.

02:28:56

>> So if people have been inspired by this conversation Yes. >> Um >> they can go to junglekeepers.org and on

02:29:02

the website I'm on there now. >> Yeah. >> That you can give once um in a small

02:29:06

donation or you can give monthly. anything from, as you said, the price of a coffee up to bigger donations if

02:29:12

you're able to. And um there's some superb information and resources and

02:29:17

videos on the website that explains more about the work being done. I'm certainly

02:29:21

going to sign up to a monthly subscription. >> Thank you, John Keeper. >> No, it means a lot because it's the

02:29:27

shopping cart principle. It's like if none of us do it, it won't work. If all

02:29:30

of us do it, it will work. >> We'll make history. >> Well, I'm going to sign up right now. Um

02:29:36

Amazing. >> Definitely. and I'll I'll give my monthly donation and I implore anyone

02:29:39

else that can has the means to to also do it because it's such an you know it's

02:29:43

such a such an important beautiful part of the world for all the reasons we've

02:29:48

discussed um in a way that I think is often unappreciated and not um uh not thought about enough because in part

02:29:55

these messages don't get out there and most people don't realize that the

02:29:58

oxygen we breathe comes from this part of the world and many of the medicines we've discovered and the research that

02:30:04

we continue to do originates from this part of the world. I mean, there's so

02:30:07

many I wanted to talk to you about this. There's so many medicines and um sort of

02:30:12

medical research taking place in in this ecosystem that is incredible. Incredible. And I was I hearing I heard

02:30:20

you talk about how one day you got an infection, antibiotics couldn't touch >> and someone took you into the jungle,

02:30:26

gave you some sap from a tree bark and it cured the infection. >> Yeah. You see this where it looks like

02:30:32

somebody put a cigar out on my arm right there? Little smooth bit. That was a very rare disease. I was living in a mud

02:30:38

hut in India trying to track tigers. There's only 3,000 tigers left. Um although now it's gone up to five.

02:30:44

Tigers are coming back. So another success story. But I was living in a mud hut in India trying to track tigers and

02:30:49

I got this disease called tuleria. And it's so rare that when I got it, I brought it back to New York, went to the

02:30:55

infectious disease doctor. when he figured out what it was and I'd been in bed for like a month with this horrible

02:31:01

infection in my arm, this deep pocket of pus and and I was on antibiotics and he

02:31:07

went, "This is so rare." He goes, "Do you mind if I call in my students, my

02:31:10

fellows?" He goes, he goes, "Guys, you're never going to see this again.

02:31:13

It's a disease that's tick born through rabbits and somehow gets into people and

02:31:18

manifests with an infection on the right elbow." He goes, "This is one of the

02:31:23

rarest ones you're going to see." He goes, "This is rare. They put me on

02:31:25

double antibiotics. cuz I had already had a MRSA infection. They were like, "Look, we got to really kill this

02:31:29

thing." And it was 2012 and my parents said, "Whatever you do, do not go back

02:31:34

to the jungle with an infection cuz the jungle's just going to make it worse."

02:31:38

And of course, I went to the jungle. We had stuff to do. We our station was in danger of dying, so I had to go back

02:31:43

with JJ and fix it up. And I showed up and he looked at my go, "Why is your arm

02:31:46

taped up?" And I said, "Well, I have this terrible infection." I said, "I've

02:31:48

been in bed for two months." I said, "I have no energy. I'm on all these

02:31:51

antibiotics." And he looked at me, he went, "This is okay." Hey. And he goes,

02:31:55

"No, no, come with me." We walked out. He marches out into the jungle, hits

02:31:58

this, hits the tree with the machete, collects the white sap, rubs it over this, and now this these

02:32:04

saps have like a latex quality, and when you heat them, they they they they form

02:32:09

almost like a rubber. So, it formed a rubber rubber cap over the infection. Now, if you had pushed on it before, pus

02:32:14

would leak out. He just went like this until it formed a seal. And then he put a little bit into a concoction of leaf

02:32:22

juice that he made, made me drink that. Either way, next day I woke up and the infection was denatured. It was still a

02:32:30

wound, but it was no longer infected. Killed the infection in one night. The antibiotics hadn't been able to kill for

02:32:36

two months. And so stuff like that where he not only knew what to do, he knew where to find

02:32:43

it. Recently when I was stung by a stingray and I was in agonizing pain, two of my friends collected bark, which

02:32:49

was JJ's nephew and brother. It's good to be part of an indigenous family. Um,

02:32:54

they connect collected two different kinds of bark. They boiled it into a pus and they sucked the venom out of my out

02:33:00

of my foot with plant medicine. It's incredible. And these are technologies we don't have. And by the

02:33:07

way, yeah, we're losing physical animals. We don't want to lose species,

02:33:10

but we're also losing indigenous cultures. We're losing dialects and and

02:33:15

and and anthropologists like WDE Davis will say that, you know, each language, each each culture is a different

02:33:22

manifest. They said he was he has a beautiful quote where he said other cultures are not failed attempts at

02:33:27

being you. You know, it's it's each of these is a different manifestation of

02:33:31

the human different blossoms on the same vine. and uh we're losing languages because what

02:33:38

happens is roads come in to these communities they all learn to speak Spanish let's say so they stop speaking

02:33:47

you know and the same thing in India where you guys have seen this happening where like the kids in the village might

02:33:51

speak a really local language and then all of a sudden everybody wants to go to the big city everybody has the internet

02:33:56

and Instagram and Tik Tok and wants to make a little more money and they go and these we're losing languages and these

02:34:02

each of these languages is a different way of expressing ourselves And so this there's just this very

02:34:07

interesting shift happening in the world right now where there's a lot of beautiful things that can still be

02:34:12

saved. And that's why it's like we're at this amazing time where there's there's

02:34:16

still the old amazing things and we still have all this amazing new technology flooding in and more

02:34:21

knowledge at our fingertips than ever before. And so the feeling of apathy I don't get. I don't understand how

02:34:26

everybody isn't stoked. >> I see you've got a a wedding ring on. >> Oh, this. Yes. I um you know I know

02:34:37

you're recently married >> like Yes. Two weeks ago. >> Two weeks ago. One would ask how it's

02:34:43

possible for someone that spends so long living in the jungle to hold down a successful romantic relationship.

02:34:50

>> Yeah. Um, I think that the same thing happened with this that happened with

02:34:57

the career where I said, I think right around the time where I gave up, I said it's never going to happen cuz what girl

02:35:02

I said, what girl could keep up with repeated seven months in the jungle and and um all the bot flies and infections

02:35:11

and anacondas and then forget now that we're being hunted by the narot traffickers and all this stuff. Not

02:35:17

nobody nobody fit into the life. And then actually it was on a I was giving a talk about the Amazon

02:35:25

uh in California actually over a year ago and I met this girl and instantly we had a connection and and and it was the

02:35:34

same thing. It was like we we we kind of had both reached that same point where we both gone yeah it's never going to

02:35:39

work because of our different lifestyles. Um and then and then it just and then it

02:35:44

just occurred. You just when you know, you know. We got to know each other and then the only way I could know if she

02:35:49

was really the one was to take her catching. Uh we went crocodile catching for cayman catching. First night that

02:35:56

she arrived, she came up the river on the boat and we went out and we caught a crocodile, held it together. I got to

02:36:01

show her the nictating membrane and the the spikes coming out of it and it was this beautiful smooth fronted cayman.

02:36:07

And then as we were floating down the river up to our necks in the black water with the Milky Way above us and we're

02:36:13

just sort of holding hands and I just looked over and I was like, "Oh, I think

02:36:16

this is it." And then I proposed to her in the treehouse. So on top of the top

02:36:21

of the jungle canopy with all the mist and all the animals singing. Um but it that I'm you know that makes me say I'm

02:36:28

so I'm so glad that I waited. You know, it's like you have to wait until the

02:36:32

time where it makes sense on that thing, you know. And I think you probably feel

02:36:36

the same where um probably took you a while to find the right person. >> Mhm.

02:36:42

And she comes on these expeditions with you now. Or >> she's way more than that, man. I mean,

02:36:48

look, there's like I said, there's a lot of things I'm not good at. Um the

02:36:51

planes, trains, automobiles, the human world, the Ubers, the fact you have to push a button, the the the apparently,

02:36:56

like I learned come on my way to you, the the Tesla handles work differently. um she knows all that and so she's very

02:37:04

good at keeping me organized and when we go to the jungle she's very good at

02:37:07

being like hey don't forget to thank those donors hey don't forget you think

02:37:12

this is normal it is not normal teach people about those those leaf cutter ants and it's like she's really good at

02:37:17

you know so she's totally integrated loves being in the jungle it it's just

02:37:21

incredible it's the it's the most it's the most wonderful part of the journey

02:37:24

so far >> I'd love to actually um you just mentioned leaf cutter ants and I did

02:37:27

watch your video on Instagram about the leaf cutter ants and that I think that was the moment I you before we started

02:37:31

recording that I I've really wanted to go and do some sort of survival >> um expedition in the jungle.

02:37:36

>> I could make this happen for you. >> I think you I think you might be the

02:37:39

guy. >> But uh I did take a moment of pause when I watched this video. >> One of the worst episodes yet of why you

02:37:47

think you want my job, but definitely don't really. Right now, my tent is being dismantled by leaf cutter ants.

02:37:54

It's about 2:00 a.m. and I've been trying to sleep and there's about 10

02:37:57

million leaf cutter ants outside of this tent. And all they are doing is cutting

02:38:02

leafiz holes out of my tent. They are carrying away the nylon into the night. And because the leaf cutter ants are

02:38:09

working to dismantle every single thing that I own, they're opening up holes big

02:38:13

enough for me to put my fist through, which means everything else in the Amazon is coming into my tent. And

02:38:18

because of that, I keep turning on the lights. I just woke up because there's a

02:38:22

leaf cutter ant using its pinser jaws to bite my ear to try and carry off a piece. And inside this tent right now

02:38:28

are ants and termites and mosquitoes, some sort of centipede, hoppers, moths, and some insects that I can't even

02:38:35

identify. This is one of those times where, you know, it's four more hours until morning. If you get out of the

02:38:41

tent, you're going to get destroyed by mosquitoes. It's raining outside, you're

02:38:44

going to get wet. This is what camping in the wild is. Sometimes you put your tent in the wrong place, and the leaf

02:38:48

cutter ants and the gods of the jungle decide it's going to be the worst night

02:38:52

ever. All I can do is try and get some sleep and I wake up every few seconds to try and slap something off my face or

02:38:58

something flies up my nose. This is one of those nightmare nights, man. >> I didn't think of ants as being the

02:39:05

problem, the thing that might derail my journey to the jungle. But there's a lot of

02:39:12

scary things in the jungle. >> That quote you read about life being a moment of stasis among the death amongst

02:39:19

the the churning death march of the jungle. Everything you see in the jungle is going to be eaten at some point.

02:39:25

Every jaguar, every butterfly, every leaf. If the Amazon didn't have fungal mcelium growing through everything, it

02:39:31

would bury itself in leaves and cease to exist. It is a recycling machine. And so, yes, every time a baby is born, they

02:39:38

try to survive. You look at that baby snake. That baby snake might come out of its egg. Now, that's a African ball

02:39:43

python, but you say like a baby boa constrictor comes out of its mother, starts crawling around the jungle, and

02:39:48

it might just get eaten by a bird. done. And this is sort of back to what you're

02:39:53

saying about when should people give up on their dreams. It's like look some

02:39:55

sometimes you get eaten by a bird right out of the hatch. Like but in the jungle

02:40:00

the ants, the mosquitoes, the fungus, the infections, it's all trying to take you down. You are

02:40:09

calories. The leaves, which what which you don't realize, the jungle is an energy economy, right? Those trees are

02:40:15

stretching up to 160 ft because they're trying to reach above the other trees to

02:40:19

get to the light because they want the sunlight. That tropical sunlight is what gives them the energy to grow those big

02:40:26

trunks. And then all the other epithetic plants, the orchids and the lychans and

02:40:30

the and and the pitcher plants, those are all growing on the branches. And then down there in the shadows, there's

02:40:36

trees waiting that have no access to light. Less than 3% of the sunlight in the rainforest hits the ground. And

02:40:41

they're waiting beneath these titans and they're waiting for a little bit of

02:40:45

sunlight. And once a day a little bit of sunlight comes by and they grow that much. They take them and then when one

02:40:50

big tree falls over and all of a sudden you have this rush of sunlight capital. All these trees shoot up and now those

02:40:57

trees shoot up and what's happening? The leaf cutter ants are taking their little

02:41:00

bits of those leaves that have heavy chemical compounds to stop the leaf cutter ants from doing this. But they

02:41:05

take it and they bring it underground and they farm it. They're one of the only other species that farms. They farm

02:41:10

fungus off of the leaves that they eat. But the entire thing is this vast interconnected matrix of competition for

02:41:18

sunlight energy. You carry so much our skin. We are these gods of energy. We're

02:41:24

we're a large animal walking through the forest. So the mosquitoes and the leeches and and the jaguar and the like

02:41:33

all those things are like man if you died you realize how many animals you'd

02:41:36

make happy. like the jungle. The jungle is saying, "Come here. Come to me. I'll

02:41:41

I'll recycle you." >> Are you scared of anything? >> I'm scared that people won't wake up

02:41:47

quick enough to save the systems that keep us alive. But I also am an optimist and I believe that we're at this point

02:41:54

where people feel very lost and things look really dire and then it pulls back, you you know, and I I'm a big believer

02:42:01

in I mean, tigers went from a 100,000 tigers in 1900 down to just like 3,000 tigers now. We're we're coming back up.

02:42:08

We're up around five or 6,000 tigers. Humpback whales before before whaling,

02:42:13

you think you like 130,000 humpback whales. They went down as low as a thousand humpback whales. We almost lost

02:42:18

humpback whales. Then they banned whales whaling and now humpback whales are back

02:42:23

to almost pre-whaling numbers. Same thing goes for bald eagles. There's been

02:42:27

so many conservation success. We had a hole in the ozone layer. Everybody forgets this. We had a hole in the in

02:42:33

the only thing that protects us from being incinerated by the sun. And we found a way to fix it.

02:42:39

So, I'm an optimist. I'm not I'm not scared. And this is my this is my best

02:42:44

confutation to the darkness. This is my best way of saying look that that title when they told me to I didn't come up

02:42:50

with the subtitle, the what it takes, what does it say? What it takes to change the world. I didn't come up with

02:42:54

that, but I thought it was too hefty. I didn't want it. I felt uncomfortable.

02:42:58

Um, but I do think that that the idea that that we can change the fate of things is

02:43:07

an important thing to remember in these times. >> Jungle Keeper, what it takes to change

02:43:13

the world. This book is about the profound power of saying yes. Yes to one's calling. Yes to sticking with your

02:43:20

dream when it comes at a high cost. And yes to taking a stand to save what might

02:43:23

otherwise be gone in a generation. It's a story of vocation, connectedness, and

02:43:28

hope. What a brilliant, beautiful, rare book. I'm going to link it below for anyone

02:43:35

that wants to continue this conversation and wants to learn more and go deeper. Um, you're a brilliant storyteller.

02:43:40

>> Thank you. >> It's one of your great skills. I don't know where you learned it cuz I I don't

02:43:43

think they do classes for storytelling in in the Amazon, but it's certainly one

02:43:47

of your great skills and it's a very important skill to wield when you've got

02:43:50

a message you need the world to hear. >> It's a very important story. I think I

02:43:54

learned it from Tolken and from Arthur Conand Doyle and from Jane Goodall. I mean, those were the people my parents

02:43:59

read to me growing up. We have a closing tradition, Paul, where the last guest leaves a question for the next not

02:44:05

knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is, if you

02:44:09

only had three years left to live, >> what would you regret not doing? And are

02:44:20

you working on that now? If no, why not? >> If I had three years left to live,

02:44:30

I would very much regret not finishing the mission that I started. And so whether we like it or not, we're going

02:44:38

to we're either going to win and save it or we're going to lose. 3 years

02:44:44

would be like just barely able to see it. I would regret so much coming so far and then not coming to fruition because

02:44:54

you mentioned before the idea of a wave and it's like so much has happened and

02:44:58

we have come to this place where so much is possible but we're still in the barrel and we're not done yet. So if I

02:45:06

had three years left to go, I know that all those heartbeats are depending on me

02:45:12

and I would that's that would be my answer. >> Paul, thank you. It's um incredible work

02:45:17

you're doing and I'm so glad that there's people in the world like you

02:45:20

that are doing this and um if anyone has been inspired by your conversation, I really do highly recommend you go and

02:45:26

make a donation or pledge support in some way over on the Jungle Keeper website because um not all of us have

02:45:32

the means or the ability to go out and do what you're doing on the front line

02:45:37

of this issue. But um as you say, it makes a huge amount of difference even people donating small amounts of money

02:45:42

because it compounds into something much more bigger and and those small gestures

02:45:47

can save all the heartbeats that you're describing. >> Thank God for it. Thank you.

02:45:51

>> Thank you. We're done. Thank you. Thank you. >> Very soon you will be in the ice bath

02:45:55

with me. >> But I don't like the cold. >> That's cool. >> Oh gosh.

02:46:01

>> Stay with your breath. >> Whoff has defied logic time and time again. He's able to withstand extreme

02:46:08

cold >> and even ran to the top of Everest in his underwear.

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Episode Highlights

A Journey into the Amazon
An extraordinary life spent exploring the Amazon rainforest.
“I went down there at 18 years old because I needed adventure.”
@ 03m 48s
February 02, 2026
A Call to Action
Faced with destruction, the narrator vows to take action despite feeling unqualified.
“I said, 'I have to do something.'”
@ 19m 09s
February 02, 2026
The Tribe is Out
A call reveals the existence of a previously contested tribe in the jungle.
“The tribe is out.”
@ 33m 13s
February 02, 2026
Encounter with the Tribe
An anthropologist and his team meet an uncontacted tribe, leading to a profound moment of connection.
“I held up my hands... they held up their hands and they sang.”
@ 50m 43s
February 02, 2026
The Reality of Survival
The harsh realities faced by the tribe reveal their desperation and the impact of outside world.
“Rapid contact destroys them.”
@ 01h 02m 33s
February 02, 2026
A Sacrifice for Conservation
The speaker expresses his willingness to risk everything to protect the forest.
“I would have cut off my foot to save the forest.”
@ 01h 18m 39s
February 02, 2026
The Journey of a Conservationist
From setbacks to breakthroughs, the speaker reflects on the challenges faced in conservation.
“It set me back about 10 years.”
@ 01h 25m 25s
February 02, 2026
The Struggle with Snakes
A tense moment as a snake resists being lifted, showcasing the challenge of handling wildlife.
“Come on. You got this. Believe in yourself.”
@ 01h 42m 31s
February 02, 2026
Survivorship Bias
Advice often comes from those who made it, but what about those who didn't?
“You should be getting advice from the people in the graveyard, not the survivors.”
@ 01h 59m 33s
February 02, 2026
Hope for the Future
Despite ecological challenges, there's still hope for our planet's future.
“We’re the last generation that’s going to have it.”
@ 02h 13m 55s
February 02, 2026
The Power of Iawaska
An intense experience with Iawaska leads to profound realizations about existence.
“I felt like I died and came back.”
@ 02h 25m 37s
February 02, 2026
Love in the Jungle
A romantic connection blossoms during a crocodile-catching adventure.
“Oh, I think this is it.”
@ 02h 36m 14s
February 02, 2026

Episode Quotes

Every day the ground is like last night's newspaper.
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!
They don't have stones.
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!
There's an invisible mist river above the Amazon that's larger than the river.
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!
What the [ __ ] is my life?
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!
You should be getting advice from the people in the graveyard, not the survivors.
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!
This is so rare.
Your Bones Break First: The Man Who Survived Being Eaten Alive!

Key Moments

Living in the Amazon03:35
The tribe is out33:13
First contact47:37
A Shot Fired56:40
Meeting the Snakes1:29:20
Snake Handling1:40:56
Crisis of Hysteria2:21:01
Conservation Hope2:43:07

Tension Over Time

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown