00:00:00
and this is why tiger woods keeps
00:00:01
working this is why warren buffett keeps
00:00:03
working it's why richard branson keeps
00:00:04
working
00:00:05
the only way in which businesses or
00:00:08
people will become successful
00:00:10
and truly perform to their optimum this
00:00:12
amazing question
00:00:13
is probably the best question i've ever
00:00:15
been asked
00:00:17
[Music]
00:00:23
camille thank you for joining me today
00:00:25
it's a pleasure to have you here so
00:00:26
early in the morning i
00:00:28
i typically on this podcast will won't
00:00:30
introduce people because
00:00:32
um i i'll do a little bit of a
00:00:35
pre-introduction but your
00:00:36
your background and the work you've done
00:00:38
specifically with high performance
00:00:40
people and successful people
00:00:41
is so compelling and fascinating that i
00:00:44
feel like
00:00:46
i want you to introduce yourself and
00:00:48
i've read through your bio multiple
00:00:49
times
00:00:50
it was deeply inspiring and i think
00:00:53
without an introduction everything we
00:00:55
talk about from here
00:00:56
without the perfect introduction which i
00:00:57
feel like only you'll give
00:00:59
everything we talk about from here on um
00:01:02
might not have the
00:01:03
the context it needs to have so who is
00:01:06
jamil creation
00:01:07
i'm a performance coach and psychologist
00:01:09
so i've
00:01:10
spent my time working with some very
00:01:12
good sports teams some very good
00:01:14
business teams
00:01:16
some successful people and i guess what
00:01:18
i do is i help people cultivate a
00:01:20
mindset for success
00:01:21
so i always say that for us to act
00:01:23
differently we need to think differently
00:01:24
i'm going to create different behaviors
00:01:26
different actions this is about creating
00:01:27
different
00:01:28
thoughts first so i guess what i do more
00:01:30
than anything else is help people change
00:01:32
their mind
00:01:33
so i said there's new new opportunities
00:01:35
new possibilities that will come from
00:01:37
new perspectives
00:01:38
so a lot of my time is spent working
00:01:40
with people not to give them new skills
00:01:42
but more to allow them to understand the
00:01:44
skills that they've already got
00:01:46
and then create a perspective for them
00:01:48
to use it differently
00:01:49
so um as a performance coach i think
00:01:52
everyone can be better
00:01:54
everyone can perform better at terms as
00:01:55
a matter of i guess trying to create the
00:01:57
mindset the attitude um i guess some of
00:02:00
the precursors to those
00:02:02
to the performance which are which are
00:02:04
beneficiary which have benefit to them
00:02:07
and so you said that everybody has the
00:02:08
skills and i i you know
00:02:11
i i see that in a lot of my friends i
00:02:13
see that they have a lot more sort of um
00:02:15
natural capabilities than they've
00:02:17
managed to sort of give the world
00:02:19
through
00:02:19
their actions if someone has an ambition
00:02:21
to be something
00:02:23
if they have the ambition to be you know
00:02:25
a sports
00:02:26
uh star and you've worked with a lot of
00:02:27
athletes and you've worked with business
00:02:28
people or they want to start a business
00:02:31
what you tend to see it and what i tend
00:02:32
to see in my inbox is
00:02:34
a lot of people with intention but there
00:02:37
seems to be something preventing that
00:02:38
intention from turning into
00:02:41
action or like behavior into an
00:02:42
achievement yeah
00:02:44
yeah and i think you know turning
00:02:45
ambition into achievement
00:02:47
is the key because most people will have
00:02:49
good intentions most people will be
00:02:50
wishing and hoping to be better
00:02:52
there's a big difference between wishing
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and hoping and believing and executing
00:02:56
upon it
00:02:57
so i think that the people who genuinely
00:02:59
execute on it
00:03:00
probably want it more for a start at a
00:03:03
monastic key no one's ever wandered
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around the bottom of a mountain
00:03:06
and then simply found themselves at the
00:03:07
top and it does take that determination
00:03:10
the resilience it does take the ability
00:03:12
to
00:03:12
execute upon ideas to drive success
00:03:15
so i think the key is the desire which
00:03:18
is fueled by having a
00:03:20
purpose a mission a vision towards what
00:03:22
that end goal should look like
00:03:24
a lot of people um can't quite
00:03:27
they say one thing they say that their
00:03:30
their purpose is to
00:03:31
go to the gym yeah for example we all
00:03:34
say one thing and do the other
00:03:35
yeah and why is that like because it's
00:03:37
sometimes hard to distinguish with
00:03:39
someone
00:03:40
whether that's their real sort of desire
00:03:42
or whether they're kind of like
00:03:44
virtue signaling to themselves if they
00:03:46
want to be something
00:03:47
or you know they want to start that
00:03:48
business or become an entrepreneur be
00:03:50
you know get a six-pack but then their
00:03:52
actions show that
00:03:53
quite a different story so i always
00:03:56
wondered that with my some of my friends
00:03:57
always think are they
00:03:58
do they actually want that or they just
00:04:01
it's very easy
00:04:02
to say that this is what i'm after and
00:04:04
much harder to do it
00:04:06
and i think one of the reasons why is
00:04:07
because um we have to invest we
00:04:09
self-invest
00:04:10
so we probably all know these um kids at
00:04:13
school who are great footballers at 14
00:04:14
15. you think you know what they're
00:04:16
gonna make it they're just brilliant
00:04:17
they're gonna make it
00:04:18
um or great track athletes at 12 and you
00:04:21
know and you just think
00:04:22
they're special but they don't make it
00:04:25
and the reason why they don't make it is
00:04:26
they don't self-invest
00:04:28
so the people who make it are the ones
00:04:31
who
00:04:32
um will get up on a rainy friday morning
00:04:34
and rainy saturday morning to
00:04:36
go and practice whilst their mates are
00:04:38
in bed the ones who will
00:04:39
practice on a friday night when their
00:04:41
mates are out drinking
00:04:43
and so talent is not enough you need
00:04:46
talent plus teachability
00:04:48
so talent plus the ability to be
00:04:49
open-minded agile in our thinking
00:04:52
to commit to practice and turn that
00:04:54
practice into something which develops
00:04:56
our talent even further
00:04:58
so there's lots of people with talent
00:05:00
and business lots of people with talent
00:05:02
and sport
00:05:03
um but i guess that we need to be
00:05:04
open-minded enough to invest
00:05:06
in how we practice our talent to become
00:05:09
successful
00:05:10
so you know there's no there's no
00:05:11
substitute for practice i get lots of
00:05:13
golfers who say to me that yeah can you
00:05:15
make me better
00:05:16
yeah and yeah the number one golfer in
00:05:18
the world will practice
00:05:20
more than any any amateur you know and
00:05:22
you know their lies the truth
00:05:24
but you know we need to we need to apply
00:05:25
ourselves in a particular manner and so
00:05:27
we need to be practical about how we
00:05:29
exercise our talent
00:05:31
you create good feedback loops to
00:05:33
understand what we're doing
00:05:34
gain better personal introspection and
00:05:36
self-awareness
00:05:38
to allow us to use our talents
00:05:39
differently how do you give someone that
00:05:41
purpose though like i'm trying to think
00:05:43
like
00:05:43
so we know we know practice is like so
00:05:45
incredibly important to master something
00:05:46
but my
00:05:47
i guess my question is um how would you
00:05:49
give someone
00:05:50
that motivation because i i i guess
00:05:54
you can't give someone purpose a lot of
00:05:56
us spend so much of our lives trying to
00:05:58
to motivate people right
00:05:59
to motivate friends families you know
00:06:02
siblings whatever it might be
00:06:03
i'm wondering if there's a thing we can
00:06:06
do as like loving
00:06:07
friends or whatever to to give someone
00:06:09
that kick yeah so i mean a couple of
00:06:12
points i guess on that in regard to
00:06:14
discovering purpose
00:06:16
um it can't be done for someone so
00:06:19
i always said purpose is never achieved
00:06:21
it's attained on a daily basis
00:06:23
so the mistake that people make with
00:06:25
purpose is they confuse it with an end
00:06:27
goal
00:06:28
so here's my purpose and have this
00:06:30
vision statement of what they're seeking
00:06:31
to
00:06:32
you know achieve or create whatever it
00:06:34
might be and get practical and tangible
00:06:36
about it
00:06:37
but purpose isn't that purpose is
00:06:39
achieved on a daily basis that
00:06:41
um sorry purpose is never achieved it's
00:06:43
attained on a daily basis
00:06:45
and this is why tiger woods keeps
00:06:46
working this is why warren buffett keeps
00:06:48
working it's why richard branson keeps
00:06:49
working it's because it's
00:06:50
never achieved it's attained on a daily
00:06:52
basis so i think that you know
00:06:54
we need to find something which is
00:06:56
purposeful to us
00:06:58
um and then we need to lose ourselves to
00:07:00
it on a regular basis
00:07:02
so once we start to become more purpose
00:07:05
driven and express ourselves in a
00:07:06
particular way
00:07:07
obviously being a good colleague being a
00:07:09
good business leader been a good sports
00:07:11
person is not seeking to impress
00:07:13
it's about seeking to express and be
00:07:15
ourselves in the context of our work
00:07:17
so once people can find that um
00:07:21
within themselves um then i think they
00:07:23
can direct their energy and their focus
00:07:25
in a particular way
00:07:27
and become much more purpose driven in
00:07:28
how they go about their daily activities
00:07:31
but you can't give someone that purpose
00:07:33
it has to be theirs
00:07:35
and i think life is about timing i think
00:07:36
some people find that very late some
00:07:38
people find that very early
00:07:39
and um and it makes no difference we're
00:07:41
all individuals in regard to
00:07:43
helping other people make change we're
00:07:46
almost too
00:07:46
quick to go towards behaviors so we tell
00:07:50
people to be different all the time tell
00:07:51
our team members you should be more
00:07:52
collaborative guys
00:07:54
i don't guys need to be more innovative
00:07:55
and tell our children to
00:07:57
keep their rooms tidy so we're
00:07:59
constantly talking to people about
00:08:01
behaviors
00:08:01
say to our friends that you should give
00:08:03
up smoking or eat healthier whatever it
00:08:05
might be
00:08:06
the only way in which you change actions
00:08:07
is by changing thoughts
00:08:09
so we think and then we feel and then we
00:08:12
act that's how we work
00:08:13
so if you're constantly working on
00:08:15
actions we're telling people to be
00:08:16
different and this is why new year's
00:08:17
resolutions fail
00:08:18
from tomorrow i'll be different start
00:08:21
doing this i'm going to stop doing that
00:08:22
and we start talking about actions and
00:08:24
behaviors
00:08:25
um we need to go back to the um granted
00:08:28
a precursor of all our
00:08:29
actions which is our thoughts so the
00:08:31
only way in which you genuinely drive
00:08:34
commitment rather than compliance when
00:08:36
it comes to change in your team in your
00:08:38
friends you know and yourself
00:08:40
is by changing the words and pictures in
00:08:42
your head or their head to drive
00:08:44
different feelings and then different
00:08:45
actions there's um
00:08:47
a little tip which i sometimes give
00:08:49
leaders and so i said leaders never say
00:08:50
to your team you're gonna make a change
00:08:52
you say to your team you're gonna make a
00:08:53
change they won't like it um say to your
00:08:55
team
00:08:56
i'd like to try and experiment they'll
00:08:58
they'll be on board with it and um we'll
00:09:00
give that a go that's okay
00:09:02
so even just a difference in language to
00:09:04
allow someone to think differently or
00:09:06
make them feel differently and hopefully
00:09:08
therefore
00:09:08
choose to act in a different manner and
00:09:10
how how would i get someone to change
00:09:12
their thoughts
00:09:18
you know i think um i think the best way
00:09:20
is gamification
00:09:22
um what holds people in place is what
00:09:24
they believe to be true
00:09:26
and then so um so people will sit around
00:09:28
a boardroom table
00:09:30
and i'll discuss strategy and i'll say
00:09:32
you know look you know we can do this
00:09:33
but we can't do that
00:09:34
and they'll have a viewpoint on budgets
00:09:36
on consumer buying behaviors
00:09:38
on on compliance and governance and
00:09:41
that's what holds this in place
00:09:42
so what we need to do is break free of
00:09:44
some of the parameters that we think
00:09:46
are in the way so if we got people
00:09:49
around the boardroom table
00:09:50
and said look guys let's just this
00:09:51
strategy piece that we're going to talk
00:09:53
about let's imagine we got an unlimited
00:09:54
marketing budget for it
00:09:56
if we had an unlimited marketing budget
00:09:58
for it i know we haven't but if we had
00:10:00
what would we be doing how would we be
00:10:02
doing it um you know if we had no
00:10:04
marketing budget
00:10:05
what would we be doing now what we're
00:10:06
doing here is that we are helping people
00:10:09
to move outside of the mental tram lines
00:10:11
that we all operate under
00:10:13
and under habitual thinking so let's ask
00:10:16
some what if questions
00:10:17
can you imagine that you know a life if
00:10:20
you weren't smoking
00:10:21
i told what it looked like i don't know
00:10:22
what you'd be doing today if you weren't
00:10:24
smoking what'd you spend your money on
00:10:25
that you saved on cigarettes
00:10:27
just played the game of what if so let's
00:10:29
break free of some of the things which
00:10:31
are holding
00:10:32
people in place by um not by conflict
00:10:35
not by arguing and and debate in a
00:10:38
confrontational manner
00:10:40
but finding some common ground and
00:10:41
working from there and the common ground
00:10:43
is
00:10:44
let's play a game and you you said that
00:10:47
you know about
00:10:47
people finding that purpose um in their
00:10:50
lives you we hear this
00:10:51
uh phrase um a lot which is
00:10:55
find your passion yeah and i almost feel
00:10:58
that it's it's
00:10:59
in many respects quite harmful because
00:11:01
it that question is kind of loaded it it
00:11:03
assumes a singular passion for a star it
00:11:06
sounds that you can
00:11:07
discover it like an easter egg and then
00:11:09
and also
00:11:10
um the the context in which that
00:11:12
question usually sits in it implies that
00:11:14
once you find it
00:11:16
then it's you know then it's the the the
00:11:19
it's a can of unlimited like happiness
00:11:22
and
00:11:22
orientation forever and then that's
00:11:25
yours and it
00:11:26
i just feel like sometimes language can
00:11:28
be harmful because it
00:11:30
it simplifies very complex things and
00:11:32
sometimes multifaceted
00:11:33
plural things you know so i wondered if
00:11:35
that you know that phrase
00:11:36
uh find your per find your passion was
00:11:39
something you um
00:11:40
you felt similar about or yeah i do i
00:11:42
mean yeah it's true that passion can be
00:11:44
a
00:11:45
significant multiplier of human
00:11:46
potential
00:11:48
so you know if people are passionate and
00:11:49
engaged in a business
00:11:51
they can direct their energy in a in a
00:11:53
worthwhile meaningful manner
00:11:55
so so so it's it's worthwhile but you're
00:11:57
right and um that you know there's a big
00:11:59
difference between
00:12:00
passion big difference between happiness
00:12:02
and joy
00:12:03
um some are in the moment at home i
00:12:05
think joy is in the moment and
00:12:06
i think happiness is something um that
00:12:08
we continually continually
00:12:10
adjust towards um your passion can be a
00:12:13
significant multiplier of human
00:12:15
potential
00:12:16
particularly in the workplace so it does
00:12:18
have a
00:12:19
place it is something which is useful to
00:12:21
understand and then ultimately
00:12:23
it always comes down to personal
00:12:25
introspection and self-awareness for me
00:12:27
and i think that um we need to work
00:12:30
harder at understanding ourselves
00:12:32
and when we are constructing a mindset
00:12:34
which is conducive to performance
00:12:37
so we optimize our potential when we're
00:12:39
in a particular state of mind
00:12:42
and that state of mind might be passion
00:12:44
it might be relaxation
00:12:45
it might be enthusiasm might be
00:12:47
enjoyment but we need to almost get to
00:12:49
know ourselves
00:12:50
and know that um there are certain
00:12:52
things which enable us to do others
00:12:54
and once we work backwards and
00:12:56
understand what that looks like maybe we
00:12:58
can gain some more consistency
00:13:00
i say to a lot of sports people and to a
00:13:01
lot of business people that
00:13:03
consistency of mind gives you
00:13:05
consistency of play
00:13:06
and i'm convinced of it and the more
00:13:08
consistent we can be in our thinking
00:13:10
we understand um the building blocks the
00:13:13
component parts to success
00:13:15
yeah the more success we can have and
00:13:17
how does one establish consistency of
00:13:18
thought
00:13:19
because i completely agree with that i
00:13:20
completely agree i've seen that in my
00:13:22
own life when i've been
00:13:23
consistent with my thinking i've managed
00:13:25
to you know
00:13:26
perform the same habits every day um but
00:13:29
then sometimes
00:13:31
i'll lose consistency in my thoughts
00:13:33
because i lose um
00:13:34
[Music]
00:13:35
i lose i guess i lose attachment or sort
00:13:38
of my anchor with my my why
00:13:40
yeah and i talk a lot i've talked a lot
00:13:41
in this podcast over the last couple of
00:13:42
weeks about
00:13:43
this realization i've had this year with
00:13:45
the gym which was every year
00:13:47
february march i was incredibly
00:13:49
motivated to go
00:13:51
fired up trying to look good for summer
00:13:53
yeah
00:13:54
and then obviously once you look good
00:13:56
and summer has ended
00:13:57
it's almost like you've lost your anchor
00:14:00
right so you get into
00:14:01
september and the why which made you go
00:14:03
and to think consistently every day
00:14:06
has been is evaporated and i'm tr i
00:14:08
can't get myself to go to the gym in
00:14:09
october
00:14:10
right you look in great shape for it
00:14:12
this was the other
00:14:13
video i realized so this was the year i
00:14:16
realized that this is the year i booked
00:14:17
the trend for the first time in my life
00:14:18
because i realized that i thought to
00:14:20
myself every single year
00:14:22
i i do it for this period and then i
00:14:24
stop and
00:14:25
they're two different people august
00:14:27
steve and october steve don't know each
00:14:28
other they're like you know what i mean
00:14:30
they're like twins that were separated
00:14:32
at birth and so this was the year where
00:14:34
i realized what i was doing and why
00:14:36
i was losing my motivation so i thought
00:14:38
[ __ ] it you know i'm gonna anchor my why
00:14:40
to something a bit more uh long term
00:14:43
and without a timeline so i said to
00:14:45
myself listen i persuaded myself of all
00:14:47
the reasons
00:14:48
why i want to be healthy and view my
00:14:51
life as one season
00:14:53
and that's what's allowed me to
00:14:55
persevere and also i got a bit pissed
00:14:57
off with myself i thought
00:14:58
you're really like that like like
00:15:01
you're that vain and you're like you
00:15:02
know but so yeah do you know i mean i
00:15:05
always think that
00:15:05
consistency of mind comes from
00:15:08
understanding the intrinsic quality of
00:15:10
our decision-making processes
00:15:12
and i say that a lot to people in sport
00:15:14
and in business so
00:15:16
yeah you can make a good decision and
00:15:18
have a really bad outcome
00:15:19
you can make a bad decision have a good
00:15:21
outcome and this is why i've worked with
00:15:22
leadership teams who have confused luck
00:15:24
for genius
00:15:26
and really bad decisions with a great
00:15:27
outcome you know markets have changed
00:15:29
competition's done something something's
00:15:30
just worked in their favor
00:15:32
um so um so it's really important for us
00:15:35
to
00:15:35
not judge our decision making by our
00:15:37
outcomes
00:15:39
and we often do so we'll say this is a
00:15:41
good decision because it resulted in
00:15:42
this
00:15:43
or this is a bad decision it resulted in
00:15:45
that
00:15:46
and we can only understand the outcome
00:15:48
retrospectively
00:15:49
so it's wrong to measure our decisions
00:15:51
by the outcomes and
00:15:52
we need to go back to how we made a
00:15:54
decision in the first place and once we
00:15:56
start to understand the intrinsic
00:15:57
quality of our decision making process
00:15:59
we can become more consistent in how we
00:16:01
make decisions
00:16:03
and therefore have more control over
00:16:04
those outcomes so i think that you know
00:16:07
two things i don't i think that and then
00:16:09
we'll use you as the example here steve
00:16:11
um that consistency of mind will come
00:16:14
from knowing how we make decisions okay
00:16:16
i understand that we put
00:16:18
our weight into evidence how much we use
00:16:20
prejudice and bias and opinion whatever
00:16:22
it might be
00:16:22
but let's understand how we make
00:16:24
decisions and in that way we can be
00:16:25
consistent
00:16:26
in um how we apply our logic and
00:16:29
thinking and feeling
00:16:30
try and determine some best outcomes and
00:16:32
then the other thing and um
00:16:33
as you've just positioned is reframing
00:16:36
let's stand back and create some time
00:16:38
and space
00:16:39
to understand and um you know why we do
00:16:41
things and why we don't do things
00:16:43
now i always say that um the people are
00:16:46
most successful and i've had a pleasure
00:16:48
working with six sports people who got
00:16:49
to number one in the world
00:16:50
i can guarantee you one thing i had in
00:16:53
common was that
00:16:54
um um they um they never made big
00:16:57
changes
00:16:58
and um it was small changes so i'm a big
00:17:01
big believer in the one degree of change
00:17:03
if you take two parallel lines and you
00:17:04
move one by one degree it may not seem
00:17:06
much at first
00:17:07
but it's a really big difference between
00:17:09
where you start and where you end up
00:17:11
so um everyone's trying to you know make
00:17:14
a dramatic change and see change from
00:17:16
tomorrow i'm going to be different
00:17:17
i think it's about doing something a
00:17:19
little bit more than what we've been
00:17:20
doing it matan a bit more consistently
00:17:22
and then the other thing with these
00:17:24
people who obtained you know what i call
00:17:26
um super achievements at home so they
00:17:28
did really really well
00:17:30
um is that they actually worked on their
00:17:31
strengths they started to understand
00:17:33
what was good about them
00:17:34
and do that some more so we think to be
00:17:37
better
00:17:37
as human beings i'm gonna be better as a
00:17:40
business or a team of people we need to
00:17:42
fix our weaknesses
00:17:43
um i'm not sure that's true i actually
00:17:45
think it's more about understanding our
00:17:47
strengths and playing to them
00:17:48
so um i've actually worked with teams
00:17:50
before in business and in sport
00:17:53
who have actually weakened the strength
00:17:55
by trying to strengthen a weakness
00:17:57
if you think about it it's ridiculous
00:17:58
and actually weaken the strength by
00:18:00
trying to strengthen the weakness we
00:18:01
need to be careful
00:18:02
so i think understanding what's good
00:18:04
about us understanding you know
00:18:05
where our behaviors come from in regard
00:18:08
to the thinking before it
00:18:10
and then reframing some of those words
00:18:12
and pictures and i guess that's what
00:18:13
you've done with your gym
00:18:14
example because i guess change some of
00:18:15
the words and pictures in your head
00:18:17
to therefore feel differently which has
00:18:19
resulted you and acting differently
00:18:21
yeah and i really you know i was i was
00:18:23
valuing intensity over consistency and
00:18:26
intensity wasn't sustainable right so i
00:18:28
was going through the summer like
00:18:29
to the gym two times a day i was
00:18:30
starving myself like eating things that
00:18:32
i
00:18:33
i didn't want to necessarily eat yeah
00:18:35
and the the consistency came from being
00:18:37
a bit more um
00:18:38
realistic with myself being yeah you
00:18:40
know if you missed the day of gym it
00:18:41
doesn't matter you don't have to
00:18:42
perspective
00:18:43
yes perspective isn't it yeah and i
00:18:45
think do you know it's funny because
00:18:46
again
00:18:46
something so many sports people have
00:18:47
worked with and business people who
00:18:50
will lose perspective they'll lose the
00:18:52
tournament and it's dreadful you know
00:18:53
win a tournament i've made it you know
00:18:55
this is it this is
00:18:56
turning point for me now they win a big
00:18:58
contract you know in business
00:19:00
and you know this is us now we're set up
00:19:02
you know or they lose a contract
00:19:04
and um and life has never been so
00:19:05
dreadful um but i think that we need a
00:19:08
better perspective on things so their
00:19:10
ability to think more long term
00:19:12
term to be more forgiving you know to
00:19:13
understand with more
00:19:15
um reality at uh what's good and what's
00:19:18
not so good
00:19:19
is probably the way forwards and in
00:19:22
terms of responsibility
00:19:23
it's a it's a topic that's fast
00:19:25
consistency is a topic i've been so
00:19:27
fascinated about over the last year
00:19:28
as i've reflected and done has been sort
00:19:30
of introspective about the things i've
00:19:32
been able to achieve
00:19:33
whether it's getting millions of
00:19:34
followers on social media whether it's
00:19:36
growing my business or
00:19:37
going to the gym it seems that the the
00:19:39
very
00:19:40
ironically consistent theme across all
00:19:42
of them was consistency it was being
00:19:44
able to do
00:19:45
perform x habit for a long period of
00:19:47
time and then you have that
00:19:48
the eighth wonder of the world shows up
00:19:50
and things start compounding in your
00:19:51
favor
00:19:52
very quickly usually um but the other
00:19:54
term that i've been fascinated with
00:19:56
is responsibility and as i've
00:19:59
i started out as an 18 year old kid
00:20:01
dropped out of university
00:20:02
disowned by my parents no money at all
00:20:05
and
00:20:06
the one of the things that i noticed as
00:20:09
i look back on 18 year old steve
00:20:11
versus a lot of other people that i see
00:20:12
that that are living in the same
00:20:14
[ __ ] area i was living in and
00:20:16
stealing pizzas like i was stealing them
00:20:18
um was they don't take responsibility
00:20:20
for their situation
00:20:22
they kind of see themselves as a a
00:20:24
victim of the situation they're in
00:20:26
whereas when i was in that situation not
00:20:28
only did i not view it as my destination
00:20:30
i was literally taking photos of the the
00:20:32
nothingness in my fridge
00:20:34
and the how dire my life was because in
00:20:37
my mind and i
00:20:37
started keeping this diary on facebook
00:20:39
which i really randomly
00:20:41
wrote in my diary that a tv company had
00:20:43
asked me to keep this
00:20:44
because i didn't actually know how to
00:20:45
tell my own diary right that i thought i
00:20:47
was gonna
00:20:48
show the world this someday um i
00:20:51
i didn't see it as my destination and i
00:20:53
took full responsibility of my
00:20:54
circumstance it wasn't anyone's fault
00:20:56
but my own and i was gonna change it
00:20:57
but then one of the things that makes me
00:20:59
concerned um about our generation and
00:21:02
about
00:21:03
certain political narratives and certain
00:21:05
themes i see on the internet
00:21:06
is like a an avoidance of responsibility
00:21:10
for your life and the the default to
00:21:12
blame someone else
00:21:13
and i'll be honest it's something i see
00:21:15
more in the western world than i do
00:21:17
in the african village i was born in
00:21:19
yeah you know so
00:21:21
i wanted to know if really from you like
00:21:22
what role responsibility plays in
00:21:24
people's outcomes
00:21:26
okay that's a big one yeah um
00:21:29
you promised me some easy questions um
00:21:32
no
00:21:32
so um responsibility is huge it's just
00:21:34
massive it's um
00:21:36
it's it's one of the pre it's one of the
00:21:38
predetermined
00:21:39
of successful outcomes is our ability to
00:21:41
take ownership and accountability so
00:21:44
circumstance and situation push and pull
00:21:46
us in different directions on a daily
00:21:48
basis the world is complex it's
00:21:50
uncertain it's unpredictable
00:21:52
all of those things the people who
00:21:54
perform best have huge levels of
00:21:56
responsibility
00:21:57
and ability to respond to those
00:21:59
circumstances and situation no matter
00:22:01
what they are
00:22:02
to drive the best outcomes or
00:22:03
opportunities so i always said there's a
00:22:06
circle of concern
00:22:08
water cooler conversations the stuff
00:22:09
that's going on you know around us
00:22:11
circumstance situation incidents and
00:22:14
accidents
00:22:15
then there's a circle of influence and
00:22:17
the circle of influence is where we make
00:22:18
choice that's what it's about
00:22:20
so responsibility is all about choice
00:22:22
for me i
00:22:23
absolutely guarantee you now that the
00:22:26
circumstance the situation is not a
00:22:29
predictor of success
00:22:30
and um because we know of people who
00:22:32
were born into privilege
00:22:33
their great role models had good access
00:22:35
to opportunity to wealth
00:22:37
they had good guidance and good support
00:22:40
and they ended up dying
00:22:41
heroin addicts in prison we know some
00:22:43
people born with a physical disadvantage
00:22:45
now a lack of good role models now the
00:22:47
lack of guidance lack of support lack of
00:22:49
opportunity
00:22:50
they grew up to be some of the most
00:22:51
successful people who have ever walked
00:22:53
this earth
00:22:54
so it proves beyond doubt that attitude
00:22:56
is more important than intelligence or
00:22:58
facts
00:22:59
and i genuinely believe that to be true
00:23:00
in all areas of high performance that
00:23:02
attitude is more important than
00:23:03
intelligence or facts
00:23:05
i always say give me i will over iq any
00:23:08
one of my teams i'd rather if i will
00:23:09
over iq because high technical expertise
00:23:12
and talk about the western world at the
00:23:13
moment high technical expertise is no
00:23:15
longer as valuable as it used to be
00:23:18
and the reason why high technical
00:23:20
expertise is no longer as valuable as it
00:23:21
used to be
00:23:22
it's because we can google things that's
00:23:24
why so knowing a lot
00:23:26
isn't where your success is going to
00:23:27
come from yeah it's not what you know
00:23:30
which is important
00:23:31
it's how you think about what you know
00:23:33
and how you bring it to life with your
00:23:35
character and personality
00:23:36
to determine the best outcomes or
00:23:38
opportunities
00:23:39
so you know i genuinely believe that the
00:23:42
only way in which
00:23:43
businesses or people will become
00:23:45
successful and truly perform to their
00:23:47
optimum
00:23:48
is taking full accountability and
00:23:50
ownership we need to almost move away
00:23:52
from circumstance and situation which is
00:23:54
a distraction
00:23:56
so um the more that we realize that our
00:23:58
success is dependent upon us
00:24:00
and not on situation the better and
00:24:02
because the world is so unpredictable
00:24:04
i need to simply learn to dance on a
00:24:06
shifting carpet
00:24:08
not see the rug being pulled from under
00:24:09
our feet you know life is a game of
00:24:12
continual adjustment
00:24:13
and it doesn't matter what happens it's
00:24:15
how we react and respond to it to
00:24:17
determine those best opportunities or
00:24:18
outcomes
00:24:19
and i think that you know it's funny
00:24:21
because initially i'm working a lot of
00:24:22
businesses
00:24:23
and um on culture on team
00:24:26
um people strategies and the focus on
00:24:29
responsibility has never been higher
00:24:32
mainly because we've been asked to stay
00:24:33
apart people are having to determine
00:24:35
their own work schedules people have to
00:24:37
determine their own working week and um
00:24:40
they're going to have to
00:24:41
take responsibility for driving the best
00:24:43
outcomes and
00:24:44
whilst they're not surrounded by team or
00:24:46
working with directly with a leader
00:24:48
so it's been a greater call for
00:24:50
responsibility i wonder whether
00:24:52
in answer to your question i don't know
00:24:53
the answer to this
00:24:55
um i wonder whether we'll see a better
00:24:58
shift or greater shift towards more
00:25:00
responsibility in the western world
00:25:02
because i agree with you i think that
00:25:04
many of us will see ourselves as a
00:25:05
victim of circumstance and situation
00:25:08
and not necessarily see the beauty in
00:25:10
the chaos because of it
00:25:12
you talk there about the the internet as
00:25:14
well in the power of the internet and
00:25:15
how that's been a bit of a leveler
00:25:17
which is yeah which is a really
00:25:18
wonderful thing i think um
00:25:21
what how important is it do you do you
00:25:23
think when you think about the
00:25:24
successful people you've worked with
00:25:26
to be a sort of self-driven
00:25:29
learner beyond school um
00:25:32
did you see in the specifically in the
00:25:34
sort of upper echelons of like business
00:25:35
the ones that are the people that are
00:25:37
most successful are
00:25:38
proactive sort of self-driven yeah i
00:25:41
think
00:25:41
i think it's true i think that um i've
00:25:43
said that our only
00:25:44
sustainable competitive advantage is to
00:25:47
learn faster and better than your
00:25:49
competitors
00:25:50
so you know and you think about that for
00:25:52
a business you think about that for a
00:25:53
leader you know you think about as a
00:25:55
sportsman it's probably true isn't it
00:25:57
you know our only sort of
00:25:58
sustainable competitive advantage is
00:26:00
just learn faster and better than anyone
00:26:01
else
00:26:02
two powerline lines yeah yeah and i
00:26:04
think that you know and i think that
00:26:06
i think that how can we learn faster and
00:26:08
better
00:26:09
yeah if we're not proactive lifelong
00:26:12
learners
00:26:13
and so you know and i think that you
00:26:14
know learning isn't necessarily about
00:26:16
being
00:26:16
taught um we don't necessarily need
00:26:19
teachers
00:26:19
um it's a strive for greater curiosity
00:26:22
you know i think curiosity is worth
00:26:24
more than creativity at the moment but
00:26:25
it's a strive for greater curiosity it's
00:26:27
a matter of being
00:26:28
massive being open-minded it's a matter
00:26:30
of being um
00:26:31
agile in our thinking so we can deploy
00:26:33
resourced of opportunity as it becomes
00:26:35
visible
00:26:36
um it's about um it's about
00:26:38
self-discovery
00:26:40
so it's about a variety of things which
00:26:42
are based not necessarily upon
00:26:43
traditional learning
00:26:45
but more in a way in which we can open
00:26:47
our mind up to
00:26:49
experimentation and feedback you know
00:26:51
and
00:26:52
understanding ourselves differently and
00:26:54
i think the best
00:26:55
leaders um you know have this ability to
00:26:58
you know reimagine repurpose reinvent
00:27:01
i don't think they're beholden to a
00:27:03
particular or wedded to a particular
00:27:04
mindset
00:27:06
but that's for a lot of people that's
00:27:07
terrifying the thought of
00:27:09
experimentation and being agile and
00:27:11
reinvention
00:27:12
i've seen that in my own business i've
00:27:14
seen over the years i was um
00:27:16
i was known as being the guy that would
00:27:17
walk in i think a lot of
00:27:19
business leaders are walking in the
00:27:20
morning and be like we're going in a
00:27:21
different direction everyone come in
00:27:22
this room we're going to launch this
00:27:23
part of our business and we're going to
00:27:24
take it
00:27:25
we're going to experiment and i i would
00:27:27
often say to our team that
00:27:28
experimentation is like at the heart of
00:27:30
all of our strategy it's like why
00:27:31
especially as a social media company
00:27:33
where our platforms
00:27:35
social media changes every day there's
00:27:37
new updates pushed by facebook and
00:27:38
instagram every day
00:27:40
um so our company slogan was keeping
00:27:42
keeping brands at the forefront of
00:27:43
what's possible
00:27:44
which meant that we had to be agile but
00:27:46
i'd often see people in my organization
00:27:47
that were
00:27:49
really against change fearful of it
00:27:52
they would take you know they would
00:27:54
resist it
00:27:55
yeah you know uh and i i i am
00:27:58
i wonder how you if it's i always
00:28:00
wondered why it was i think some of them
00:28:02
had
00:28:02
levels of imposter syndrome so they were
00:28:05
you know
00:28:06
they were just uh just trying to get a
00:28:08
hang of the role they were in and not do
00:28:10
more that
00:28:11
you know they were already you know but
00:28:13
i wonder what your thoughts were on that
00:28:14
i think i think people don't like change
00:28:16
because they don't know what it results
00:28:17
in
00:28:17
and that's one of the things so let's
00:28:19
take um
00:28:21
let's take uh moving your desk yeah
00:28:23
someone sat at our desk for ten years in
00:28:25
a particular office he said you know
00:28:26
what you need to you need to move down
00:28:28
the corridor
00:28:29
i'm going to make a move but uh people
00:28:31
weren't like the slightest
00:28:33
um if you said to them that you know you
00:28:34
need to move down the corridor you know
00:28:36
we really appreciate the move we're
00:28:37
going to give you a million pounds at
00:28:39
the end of the year because of it
00:28:41
they'll be trotting off with their
00:28:42
potted plant in hand i guarantee it
00:28:44
so i think that because people don't
00:28:46
necessarily know what it results in
00:28:49
why should we invest in doing something
00:28:51
different which is uncomfortable because
00:28:53
it goes against our mental tram lines
00:28:54
our habitual thinking
00:28:56
so now you're asking me to compromise my
00:28:58
patterns
00:28:59
and i don't know what for and i know
00:29:02
what's going to result in
00:29:03
um it could be good it could be bad so
00:29:05
therefore i'm not sure i want to go to
00:29:07
the trouble
00:29:07
without investing in this change when i
00:29:10
haven't determined you know the result
00:29:12
of it
00:29:13
as human beings we like patterns um
00:29:15
that's good and it's bad
00:29:17
and um it works in our favor sometimes
00:29:19
sometimes it doesn't
00:29:20
so we like patterns and so we like
00:29:22
consistency
00:29:23
and we compartmentalize and how am i
00:29:25
getting a viewpoint on the world and in
00:29:26
fact if you look at um
00:29:28
the office is a good example the office
00:29:30
is a great example of keeping people in
00:29:31
patterns you've got your phone on your
00:29:33
desk here
00:29:33
your computer there come in at a certain
00:29:36
time working a certain way take your
00:29:38
lunch at a certain time
00:29:39
so we're conditioned to work in a way
00:29:41
which is reflective of the consistency
00:29:44
which takes out variance in business so
00:29:47
you think that
00:29:47
management has been around for about 100
00:29:49
years and the reason why management's
00:29:51
been around for about 100 years
00:29:53
is to reduce variance at time because
00:29:55
then you can guess then you can scale
00:29:57
so businesses got bigger a lot bigger
00:30:00
100 years ago
00:30:01
and um because of the ability to keep
00:30:03
people
00:30:04
habitual so um so because we've become
00:30:07
conditioned to do this
00:30:09
and everything around us keeps us in in
00:30:11
in a pattern that we quite like being in
00:30:14
as soon as we start to move outside of
00:30:15
that there's a level of discomfort
00:30:17
so i guess leaders can allow people to
00:30:19
make change atta and embrace
00:30:21
change um i guess there's a few points
00:30:24
one
00:30:24
it's always best if it's co-authored and
00:30:26
co-created right
00:30:27
um so let's involve people in what that
00:30:29
change looks like
00:30:30
um it's always best if um
00:30:34
we look at our organizations or teams as
00:30:36
a community
00:30:37
instead of as a team or an organization
00:30:39
at the moment communities are
00:30:41
outperforming bureaucracies and
00:30:42
hierarchies when it comes to maximizing
00:30:44
human talent
00:30:45
so let's try and form a community and um
00:30:46
let's co-author and co-create
00:30:48
and and then um let's have a look at um
00:30:51
peer recognition peer coaching peer
00:30:53
challenge
00:30:54
it doesn't need to be a top down thing
00:30:56
done to people it can be something which
00:30:58
can
00:30:58
happen from the inside out you know it's
00:31:01
meaningful when
00:31:02
when something is endorsed by others
00:31:05
that that you know you are
00:31:06
that you feel an affinity with sure what
00:31:09
when you read about the steve jobs of
00:31:11
the world and the elon musk's of the
00:31:12
world they seem to buck
00:31:13
all of the a lot of the trends that you
00:31:15
hear in like management coaching they
00:31:17
seem to be
00:31:18
very authoritarian you know i was
00:31:20
reading about from i was reading steve
00:31:22
elon musk's biography and there's
00:31:24
stories of him just like
00:31:26
calling someone into the office and
00:31:27
saying how much does it cost to do this
00:31:28
they'll say 10 million he'll say do it
00:31:30
for
00:31:30
5 and do it within 30 days and they'll
00:31:33
go away feeling puzzled but they'll get
00:31:35
it done
00:31:36
yeah he has this culture of like
00:31:37
intensity and when you start he says to
00:31:40
the teams that this will be the hardest
00:31:42
you've ever worked in your life
00:31:43
but it'll be the most worthwhile but
00:31:44
it'd be the hardest you've ever worked
00:31:46
and
00:31:47
and i you know and then steve jobs as
00:31:48
well i've heard the stories of how he
00:31:49
was
00:31:50
you know how he built the company at
00:31:51
medlo park and um
00:31:53
he seemed like the antithesis of what
00:31:55
you would read about in a business book
00:31:57
but obviously these are two of the most
00:31:58
successful entrepreneurs
00:31:59
the world has ever you know seen so i
00:32:02
wondered if there's a
00:32:04
i'm trying to appreciate the like
00:32:07
how they've achieved their success by
00:32:09
being so different from what all the
00:32:10
business books say
00:32:11
from all accounts they're you know what
00:32:14
i mean
00:32:14
yeah i mean i think a couple of things i
00:32:17
guess that you know you find what works
00:32:19
for you
00:32:20
um i think what they have on their side
00:32:22
is they have a really big
00:32:24
purpose statement it's a really big
00:32:26
mission so there are lots of companies
00:32:29
with
00:32:29
mission statements but very few on a
00:32:31
mission and i guess that when it comes
00:32:34
back to
00:32:34
um the point i made earlier that passion
00:32:37
been a significant multiplier
00:32:39
of human potential i guess that these
00:32:41
people have the ability to engage people
00:32:44
so to tell a story attempt to inspire
00:32:47
and motivate
00:32:48
so i guess that you know there is a
00:32:50
there's no doubt lots of logic
00:32:52
and time there is no doubt lots of
00:32:54
rationality which is used in their
00:32:56
management leadership style
00:32:58
you know but what you're describing to
00:32:59
me in the people that you're describing
00:33:02
i think you can really get behind
00:33:03
something that someone passionately
00:33:05
believes in
00:33:06
and is something which is worthwhile and
00:33:08
purposeful
00:33:09
yeah on such a grand scale so i think
00:33:12
when they're talking about
00:33:13
um and things which will change humanity
00:33:16
um i think it's possible for
00:33:18
you know us to be swept along at him on
00:33:20
that particular vision and
00:33:21
so maybe it does mobilize people in a
00:33:23
different manner because of who they are
00:33:25
what they believe in and what they're
00:33:26
trying to achieve yeah no that's
00:33:29
probably true i mean yeah you think
00:33:30
about i
00:33:30
mean the example i'll give you is jfk
00:33:35
well yeah i mean i mean jfk do you think
00:33:37
that jfk's speech about putting man on
00:33:39
the moon
00:33:39
you should read it actually rather than
00:33:41
look at it um
00:33:43
it's a rubbish speech when you read it
00:33:45
the term and the reason
00:33:46
and the reason why is that there's no
00:33:48
logic to it until there's no rationality
00:33:50
so he says we put a man on the moon and
00:33:52
the reason why he gives that
00:33:53
we should put a man on the moon is
00:33:55
because it's it's hard and not easy
00:33:57
which is a rubbish reason to do anything
00:34:00
it's hard
00:34:01
that's why we're gonna do it yeah so um
00:34:03
but not only did
00:34:04
they end up doing this it mobilized the
00:34:07
whole nation
00:34:08
behind the space race and the whole
00:34:10
nation behind science in fact
00:34:12
um the reason why was that because logic
00:34:14
was low
00:34:15
inspiration was high it was such a
00:34:18
um it was such a literally a moonshot it
00:34:21
was literally such a big goal
00:34:23
and so ambitious so expansive you know
00:34:26
that people bought into the dream
00:34:28
and i wonder whether and i don't know
00:34:31
you know
00:34:32
the examples you gave at steve jobs and
00:34:33
elon musk whether whether people just
00:34:35
buy into that dream and they buy into
00:34:37
what they not necessarily what they're
00:34:39
seeking to do but what they're seeking
00:34:40
to create
00:34:41
and maybe there's a lesson for all of us
00:34:43
who manage and manage teams that
00:34:45
maybe it's not about trying to you know
00:34:46
get people to do stuff it's about people
00:34:48
to
00:34:48
you know to create stuff is that you
00:34:50
know my time to be
00:34:52
part of something which is worthwhile
00:34:54
and meaningful and
00:34:56
sell a big vision and tell the right
00:34:58
story
00:34:59
and you know engage people emotionally
00:35:01
you know all of this stuff about
00:35:03
psychology i know a lot of stuff
00:35:04
i read a few books yeah you've read a
00:35:06
few books about a few books a week last
00:35:07
tuesday
00:35:08
yeah you know don't tell my clients
00:35:14
um you know when people
00:35:18
come across people like you they think
00:35:19
that you've got all the answers and
00:35:21
because you've got all the answers or at
00:35:22
least an answer to most things
00:35:24
um they think that you must live
00:35:27
a life of sort of perfect
00:35:29
decision-making
00:35:32
couples children have the worst worn
00:35:33
shoes yeah exactly
00:35:35
um so yeah what what do you like at
00:35:38
living these things that you're aware of
00:35:41
speaking of performance one of the
00:35:42
things that's integral to performing at
00:35:44
the highest level is nutrition it's
00:35:45
something that i
00:35:46
i guess i took a a long time to finally
00:35:49
believe
00:35:49
but that is why having hewlett's
00:35:52
response for this podcast is such a
00:35:53
privilege because
00:35:54
there was a time in my life especially
00:35:56
when i was early in my business career
00:35:57
where i wasn't getting the vitamins the
00:35:59
minerals and i wasn't having a sort of
00:36:00
nutritionally complete diet i was
00:36:02
if you look at some of my old photos i
00:36:04
was definitely lacking protein as well
00:36:06
and a lot of that maybe it was an excuse
00:36:08
was because
00:36:09
i was um i was busy and
00:36:12
when i discovered huel when a guy called
00:36:14
mike walked past me in the office
00:36:15
wearing a heel t-shirt and shaking a
00:36:17
little bottle and
00:36:18
you know upon my curiosity of asking
00:36:20
what was in that and why he was drinking
00:36:21
it
00:36:22
it really really did change my life and
00:36:24
so here's what i want to do
00:36:25
you know this particular podcast today
00:36:27
has been about high performance and
00:36:28
mindset and how we
00:36:29
how we become our best selves and how we
00:36:31
teach our teams to become our best
00:36:33
selves
00:36:34
i'm going to give away this week five
00:36:37
boxes of your big boxes right
00:36:41
all you've got to do if you want one of
00:36:42
those boxes is hit the subscribe button
00:36:44
on this podcast wherever you're
00:36:45
listening whether you're on youtube
00:36:46
or whether you're on the the podcast or
00:36:48
wherever you might be and leave
00:36:49
a review if you leave a review on the
00:36:51
podcast or just keep your instagram
00:36:53
handle or your twitter handle in there
00:36:54
so i can find you
00:36:56
but if you're listening on youtube then
00:36:57
please um just leave a comment down
00:36:59
below
00:37:00
and any comment you leave enters you
00:37:02
into the competition
00:37:03
and i want to know what you think of
00:37:04
huel so um it's as i say i say it with
00:37:07
full honesty it's changed my life and i
00:37:09
really believe that those of you who
00:37:10
aren't getting your sort of
00:37:11
um all your minerals and proteins and
00:37:13
all the good stuff i think it can change
00:37:15
yours too
00:37:16
what do you like at living these things
00:37:18
that you're aware of
00:37:20
yeah i'm rubbish next question
00:37:26
and the reason why is that two things
00:37:28
that one um
00:37:30
we're all human because we're all human
00:37:33
you know we're all
00:37:34
prone to make mistakes in our doing and
00:37:36
our thinking
00:37:37
um and i think that being you know
00:37:39
better never stops
00:37:40
so therefore we've got to continually
00:37:42
adjust you know we don't
00:37:43
find hints tips gimmicks that make us
00:37:46
better
00:37:47
and then we just apply them regularly
00:37:49
and it works
00:37:50
so i guess there's a level of
00:37:52
inconsistency
00:37:54
which is reflective of the fact that you
00:37:56
know that
00:37:57
i'm a human being who tries to do better
00:37:59
you know give me an exam on a regular
00:38:01
basis
00:38:02
on an example well you're aware of the
00:38:04
truth but you're just
00:38:05
not oh you might you know on the amount
00:38:06
of time so as you know i've been a
00:38:08
guest speaker for 10 years now so when
00:38:10
the world is normal and sane
00:38:13
you know i would um go off four days a
00:38:15
week
00:38:16
anywhere in the world so twice a week i
00:38:18
was abroad
00:38:19
and i'd speak to a few hundred people
00:38:21
i'd stand on stage i'd do an hour's talk
00:38:23
about
00:38:23
performance psychology and i'd come off
00:38:26
um
00:38:26
so i did that for ten years four times a
00:38:28
week and um but
00:38:30
um but i'd often come off and think
00:38:34
cause any good i say to the stake at
00:38:36
stake i would come up to me and say that
00:38:38
you know
00:38:38
that was really brilliant this is
00:38:39
exactly what we're after it's perfect
00:38:41
are you happy
00:38:42
oh yeah it's exactly what we're after
00:38:43
but you sort of covered the brief yeah
00:38:45
yes yeah absolutely it's exactly what it
00:38:46
was
00:38:48
send me an email let me know the
00:38:49
feedback and then
00:38:52
you get you know maybe even get some
00:38:53
feedback which is like you know you get
00:38:55
sort of scored out of five
00:38:56
it's almost like 97 percent five and um
00:38:59
i'd be scouring for the threes and twos
00:39:01
and think that you know there's like you
00:39:02
know 500 people there's that sort of
00:39:04
five people who put two
00:39:05
and so it was all right i just think
00:39:07
[ __ ]
00:39:09
but um but uh but i'd be wondering why
00:39:12
what did i do wrong what was real and
00:39:13
it's
00:39:14
unbelievable it's unbelievable the
00:39:15
amount of times i've sat in front of an
00:39:16
audience
00:39:17
and um and you know maybe 300 people
00:39:19
there there's someone with their arms
00:39:21
folded like that
00:39:22
and they're just like i think he doesn't
00:39:24
look engaged
00:39:25
you know and so out of friend of people
00:39:27
there's something there's most people
00:39:28
writing down things or nodding or
00:39:29
smiling or whatever it is
00:39:31
it's amazing how many times i can pick
00:39:33
out the one person who doesn't seem to
00:39:34
be enjoying
00:39:35
it so i think i think look i think it's
00:39:38
a couple of things
00:39:38
that i'm i'm always prone to you know we
00:39:41
actually
00:39:42
we wait quite highly stuff which we
00:39:44
think we're not doing well
00:39:46
you know we're trying to fix what's not
00:39:47
right about us what's not good you know
00:39:49
you know what we should have done and um
00:39:51
what we could be doing um i think i'm
00:39:53
still prone to that
00:39:54
rather than sort of enjoying the you
00:39:56
know the success that i've had really
00:39:57
what about things in your personal life
00:39:59
in terms of like
00:40:00
like you know health and like being a
00:40:03
parent
00:40:04
and like yeah pursuing goals and
00:40:07
ambitions you have in your personal life
00:40:09
what about those things
00:40:10
yeah i think that you know um
00:40:12
health-wise i need to take some advice
00:40:13
from you
00:40:14
we should i'll lie down and tell you all
00:40:15
about it i keep i keep meaning to
00:40:18
i keep meaning to run more and get to
00:40:20
the gym more there's always an excuse
00:40:22
um so you know i'm the most demotivated
00:40:25
motivational spooky
00:40:28
life's pretty [ __ ] and um so um
00:40:31
so yeah so i think i need to work out
00:40:33
more um i'll tell you the one thing that
00:40:35
gets me
00:40:35
and um i've got three children i got
00:40:37
sort of um four four-year-old twin girls
00:40:39
and a nine-year-old boy um is that you
00:40:42
know as a psychologist
00:40:44
and um yeah i'm pretty good at i've sat
00:40:46
in front of some sort of pretty
00:40:47
difficult clients
00:40:48
some really difficult clients you know
00:40:50
some people at the absolute top of their
00:40:51
profession
00:40:52
and um and they're they're [ __ ]
00:40:54
screwed in their thinking
00:40:56
and um and you know and you know i've
00:40:58
dealt with it
00:40:59
four-year-olds and nine-year-olds just
00:41:01
do me i can't you know i just
00:41:03
you try and apply psychology to it it
00:41:04
doesn't work so the level of frustration
00:41:07
that comes about in regard to being a
00:41:08
parent again this is my point that you
00:41:10
know all human beings
00:41:11
and um so um so you know you try
00:41:14
you try all the influence persuasion and
00:41:16
negotiation
00:41:18
and all the psychology and all the
00:41:19
techniques that you know that um it
00:41:21
doesn't work on four-year-olds
00:41:22
it doesn't work it's so funny the guest
00:41:24
that was here yesterday joe wicks are
00:41:25
the exact same thing he said i'm like a
00:41:27
you know calm guy but he just said you
00:41:28
know
00:41:28
when i my daughter i'll tell her that i
00:41:30
want to just put her down so i can clean
00:41:32
the counter and she just won't be
00:41:33
the irrationality of it is what it does
00:41:35
yeah and um so
00:41:37
you know you know it's funny because um
00:41:41
i've had some really good sports people
00:41:42
sit in front of me and say
00:41:44
you know give me you know you've got
00:41:45
something that makes me better then
00:41:47
and then you give them something and
00:41:49
they go away they come back a week later
00:41:51
and they say i tried that it doesn't
00:41:52
work have you got anything else it's a
00:41:54
bit like going to the gym
00:41:55
working out for half an hour going home
00:41:57
looking in the mirror and says yo let's
00:41:58
crap that
00:41:59
i don't like the gym film refrigerator
00:42:02
um and so
00:42:03
and this is my point that that you know
00:42:05
it's not about tools gimmicks and hints
00:42:07
it's about striving every day to be
00:42:09
better than what you were yesterday
00:42:12
um i worked with a golfer it was very
00:42:14
very good
00:42:15
really good um and you know literally
00:42:18
top 10 in the world
00:42:19
it's about a whole year and uh with just
00:42:23
a piece of paper in his pocket
00:42:24
and he used to play with his piece of
00:42:25
paper in his pocket um and it used to
00:42:27
just say
00:42:28
um what did i enjoy today and what did i
00:42:30
learn today
00:42:31
2 questions on it and then in the
00:42:33
evening he just answered those questions
00:42:35
so that whole year forget the numbers
00:42:36
i'm not going to look at numbers i'm
00:42:38
just going to answer this question
00:42:39
so i've had a good day i've had a bad
00:42:41
day doesn't make any difference i'll
00:42:42
just answer that question
00:42:44
these questions what did i enjoy today
00:42:45
and what did i learn today had the best
00:42:47
year we ever had and i'm just answering
00:42:48
those questions
00:42:50
yeah and in a way there almost needs to
00:42:51
be more simplicity to not using tools
00:42:54
and techniques not to try and apply
00:42:55
psychology to a four-year-old you know
00:42:58
but to just try and consistently enjoy
00:43:00
and learn on a daily basis
00:43:02
so i guess in regard to like you know
00:43:04
yeah i'm still prone to say
00:43:06
god i need to get running okay i've been
00:43:09
drinking all week i need to do some
00:43:10
exercise at the weekend
00:43:12
um and you know again it's falling into
00:43:15
the trap of the
00:43:16
i've been at the mercy of the shoulds
00:43:18
and musks rather than
00:43:20
thinking about at um you know what am i
00:43:22
enjoying what am i learning
00:43:24
what surprised me this week um
00:43:27
you know where am i experimenting and
00:43:29
what have i discovered you know this
00:43:30
week about myself and then once we start
00:43:32
to talk like that
00:43:33
maybe we can so i guess apply more
00:43:35
consistent thinking
00:43:37
and therefore change our doing so you
00:43:39
want to run let's use that as an example
00:43:41
yeah i need to run more definitely i
00:43:42
need to run more why do you need to run
00:43:44
more
00:43:44
and um do you know because i want to
00:43:46
improve my heart and lung health i think
00:43:48
i think i've got tonight it's all right
00:43:49
for you because you're young and fit and
00:43:51
um
00:43:52
but um but i think i've got to an age
00:43:54
now where i realized there's more of an
00:43:55
importance on
00:43:56
exercise so you know before i could just
00:43:59
i'll just do it anyway you know
00:44:00
pick up running every now and then i'll
00:44:02
be able to run i go to the gym every now
00:44:03
and then i'll
00:44:04
have a great time at the gym for a
00:44:05
couple of weeks and then i'll skip it
00:44:07
um yeah but now you know but now it's
00:44:10
it's different a term you know now i
00:44:11
sort of feel
00:44:12
at them as though you know i could be
00:44:14
fitter it should be i think this year
00:44:15
has also
00:44:16
sort of illuminated that for everybody
00:44:17
at the importance of health i think
00:44:19
it's made us all well it has for me made
00:44:20
me think about my health a lot more
00:44:22
no not for the vain reasons that you
00:44:25
know young guy would think about their
00:44:26
health because they're trying to
00:44:27
trying to get laid or something but
00:44:28
because you know i i want to live longer
00:44:31
and i want to have more memories than
00:44:32
those kind of things
00:44:33
did you know near ielts he wrote a book
00:44:34
called indistractible i know yeah i'm
00:44:36
not familiar with i've read it
00:44:38
you're probably familiar with the book
00:44:39
yeah i know the name but i am yeah he
00:44:41
said this quote to me which really
00:44:42
changed my life and i think about it all
00:44:44
the time okay when i find myself
00:44:45
procrastinating from doing something or
00:44:47
whatever he said that typically we think
00:44:49
we're humans that are seeking
00:44:50
pleasure but we're actually living in
00:44:53
the avoidance of discomfort
00:44:55
and when i think about the things that i
00:44:56
procrastinate against or whether you
00:44:58
know we're at six
00:44:58
seven o'clock in the evening you think i
00:45:00
can't be bothered to go whatever it does
00:45:02
ring true to me that i'm actually
00:45:04
avoiding some kind of psychological
00:45:05
discomfort
00:45:06
yes and so i now whenever i feel myself
00:45:09
like this weekend i had
00:45:10
had this big project to do i also had
00:45:11
this talk that i had to do
00:45:13
um for my manager dom and i found myself
00:45:16
like
00:45:16
and then i've got the book my book which
00:45:18
i had to do go through the whole book
00:45:19
from start to finish in a day
00:45:23
and i'm like low-key finding myself oh
00:45:25
just clean the countertop because that's
00:45:27
important
00:45:29
and i said i stopped myself i thought
00:45:30
you're avoiding the discomfort
00:45:32
associated with
00:45:33
sitting down for nine hours until six am
00:45:35
in the morning
00:45:36
and doing the book and it wasn't until i
00:45:38
realized why
00:45:39
you know what i started that term has
00:45:42
been like this flashlight that i shine
00:45:44
in like the corner of the room we're
00:45:46
after hiding the you know the thing that
00:45:47
i don't want to do now
00:45:49
so i wondered if it was you know for
00:45:50
some in in regards to your running
00:45:52
if it's in some respects similar like
00:45:54
you're avoiding some kind of discomfort
00:45:55
where you think
00:45:56
i'd rather play i'm convinced of it
00:45:58
because running such an unpleasant
00:45:59
experience
00:46:00
for me it's a really good example i
00:46:02
can't stand it
00:46:04
so but you're absolutely right that uh
00:46:07
that
00:46:07
you know i totally agree with you that
00:46:09
you know we we do sort of go about our
00:46:11
lives trying to seek
00:46:13
moving out of that space of you know of
00:46:15
of being uncomfortable
00:46:16
this is why we don't have conflict
00:46:18
conversations in the workplace this is
00:46:20
why we don't challenge our own thinking
00:46:21
this is why we don't like change and uh
00:46:24
you know we like we like to operate from
00:46:25
a comfort zone that's what we do
00:46:27
um so yeah no i agree with you i think i
00:46:29
think because running is such an
00:46:30
unpleasant experience for me that's
00:46:32
absolutely awful um i'm probably
00:46:34
avoiding it
00:46:35
because i just don't want the experience
00:46:37
whereas riding a bike
00:46:39
isn't so bad for me um so so yeah so
00:46:42
maybe therefore but
00:46:43
um instead of sat there at four five
00:46:45
o'clock thinking god i need to go
00:46:47
running in an hour
00:46:48
and i really don't want to i'll go
00:46:50
tomorrow
00:46:51
maybe maybe what i should be saying is i
00:46:53
need to go running no you don't um
00:46:56
why don't you ride the bike why didn't
00:46:58
you yeah why don't you just have stairs
00:47:00
um okay well i'll have a go on it after
00:47:03
this
00:47:04
but um we should have done a whole
00:47:06
interview on that i'm gonna kill two
00:47:08
birds with one stone
00:47:09
i hate running as well it's like i hate
00:47:11
the impact on my knees yeah just
00:47:12
i don't want to be outside yeah that'll
00:47:14
be swerving past people so
00:47:16
i got the peloton um it's low resistance
00:47:18
it's
00:47:19
fun super engaging and gamified because
00:47:21
you see the data you see everyone in the
00:47:23
world and where they're placing you see
00:47:24
jenny
00:47:25
55 in north carolina's beating you yeah
00:47:27
make me feel bad
00:47:30
i hate jenny forever that just makes me
00:47:33
realize how unfit i am and how much i
00:47:35
hate other people who are fitter than me
00:47:36
but i mean interestingly it proves how
00:47:38
fit you are because you said you don't
00:47:39
like running because of your knees and
00:47:41
swerving past people
00:47:42
i don't like running because i can't
00:47:43
breathe so you're already winning
00:47:47
chicken egg that'll be cured if you
00:47:50
start running
00:47:50
um but but on that point of um of
00:47:54
psychological discomfort um
00:47:56
how does somebody in your opinion
00:48:01
face a challenge that they know is
00:48:03
uncomfortable like
00:48:04
you know to be honest i don't i don't
00:48:07
want to go to the gym or do all these
00:48:11
zoom calls all the time it's not like
00:48:12
you know i'm not getting comfort or in
00:48:15
pleasure out of doing
00:48:16
two hours zoom calls at the moment about
00:48:18
like you know biotech or whatever it is
00:48:21
the thing that i'm involved in
00:48:23
but i'm doing it and i wanted to know in
00:48:25
your case what what does it take someone
00:48:27
who like doesn't want to do something
00:48:30
because they know it's uncomfortable to
00:48:31
say do you know what [ __ ] it i'm gonna
00:48:34
do it today
00:48:35
yeah and is it does that go back to that
00:48:37
point of of having that like
00:48:38
long anchor purpose yeah i think it does
00:48:41
i mean
00:48:43
mohammed ali said i've i've hated every
00:48:45
moment in the gym but i did it so i
00:48:46
could live the rest of my life
00:48:48
like a champion yeah and it's in in a
00:48:50
way it's true isn't it that
00:48:51
that you know there are there are
00:48:53
component parts
00:48:54
to success um and i think the
00:48:57
two of the interesting one is and the
00:49:00
one that most people probably relate to
00:49:02
is failure
00:49:03
so people don't like to experience
00:49:05
failure but you know for example
00:49:07
failure is part payment towards success
00:49:10
so the price of success
00:49:11
is always paid in full and in advance
00:49:14
the price of success is always paid in
00:49:16
full and in advance you can't be
00:49:18
successful and you start making mistakes
00:49:19
you can't be successful and start having
00:49:21
your two hours zoom calls but uh you
00:49:23
know in a way you
00:49:24
need to fail we need to have these awful
00:49:26
conversations we need to kiss lots of
00:49:28
frogs we need to
00:49:29
you know do deals which don't work but i
00:49:31
mean you do all these things to enable
00:49:32
you to be super successful
00:49:34
so um there's lots of things that um
00:49:37
again it comes back to reframing if we
00:49:38
see it as part and parcel a stepping
00:49:40
stone towards a greater advancement
00:49:42
they're probably more likely to do it
00:49:44
you know if you see failure as something
00:49:46
which is
00:49:47
we're trying to avoid and it's just
00:49:48
awful and you know and it screams to me
00:49:51
that i'm useless
00:49:52
um then we're probably going to stay
00:49:54
within a comfort zone you know
00:49:55
if we embrace failure then we see it as
00:49:57
part payment towards success
00:49:59
until we see it as something which is um
00:50:01
an active contribution a stepping stone
00:50:04
towards
00:50:04
you know being better maybe we're more
00:50:06
likely to indulge in it and not have the
00:50:08
discomfort
00:50:09
that we associate with it so now i feel
00:50:12
that
00:50:13
um it is always good to think about you
00:50:15
know what you think about that end goal
00:50:17
have that purpose that
00:50:18
vision the mission you know what you're
00:50:20
seeking to achieve and create
00:50:22
um and then think about what those
00:50:24
building blocks look like
00:50:25
because you know all great achievements
00:50:27
are the result of many small
00:50:28
achievements
00:50:29
um you know you had joe wicks here
00:50:31
yesterday he wasn't super successful
00:50:33
overnight
00:50:34
and he probably kissed a lot of frogs
00:50:36
i'm sure you talked about it you know
00:50:38
um know his business and korean personal
00:50:41
life went in all sorts of different
00:50:42
directions like ours
00:50:44
at um and you know it's not necessarily
00:50:47
as we said earlier it's not necessarily
00:50:49
what what happens it's
00:50:51
it's our interpretation of what's
00:50:52
happening which will then enable us to
00:50:54
use that as feedback towards something
00:50:56
better
00:50:57
and do you find with a lot of the high
00:50:58
performance people you've worked with
00:51:00
that their childhood is a definitive
00:51:05
reason as to why they are the way they
00:51:08
are today i'm going to try and
00:51:09
articulate this if i can
00:51:11
but i've i from speaking to guests on
00:51:12
this podcast and also from a bit of
00:51:14
introspection to be honest
00:51:16
i tend to think a lot of people that
00:51:18
have
00:51:19
extraordinary outcomes have often had
00:51:23
some kind of extraordinary early
00:51:26
experience and i'll give you a couple of
00:51:28
examples
00:51:29
the a lot of the billionaires that i
00:51:30
know are really really successful people
00:51:32
that i know
00:51:33
um cite their father's disapproval
00:51:37
as the reason why they've always had a
00:51:38
chip on their shoulder and they've
00:51:40
always strived
00:51:41
obsessively to be enough right because
00:51:44
their father told them they weren't
00:51:45
enough
00:51:46
yeah um have you seen that in successful
00:51:48
people that there's the
00:51:50
the thing that makes them just a bit
00:51:52
[ __ ] weird
00:51:53
is often a you know i think one
00:51:56
particular
00:51:57
instance with a friend of mine a comment
00:51:59
their mother made when they were four
00:52:00
that they just can't shake
00:52:01
yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i i'm not a
00:52:04
psychiatrist so i don't delve into
00:52:07
backgrounds in the way that maybe
00:52:08
someone involved in psychiatry would
00:52:10
yes as a performance coach i tend to
00:52:12
work with how people are now
00:52:13
basically and um tell me about what
00:52:15
you're thinking and doing what you're
00:52:16
trying to achieve
00:52:18
and more so than to try and deconstruct
00:52:20
you know or analyze
00:52:22
some of the you know the earlier
00:52:23
experiences um so that's not my thing
00:52:26
having said that though you're
00:52:27
absolutely right there seems to be some
00:52:29
sort of correlation between
00:52:31
extreme experiences and then how people
00:52:33
interpret or translate them
00:52:35
and in fact you know as you're talking i
00:52:36
was trying to think of the book i can't
00:52:37
think of a book i wish i
00:52:39
could now and they talk about in this
00:52:41
book the fact that so many super
00:52:43
successful people
00:52:44
politicians actors um business people
00:52:48
lost parents when they were young and
00:52:50
there's a
00:52:51
direct correlation believe it or not
00:52:52
it's a direct correlation between
00:52:55
people losing parents when they were
00:52:56
young and then becoming super performers
00:52:59
be incredibly successful
00:53:00
um and the psychology behind it was that
00:53:02
you learn independence
00:53:04
and um it's almost easy if you've got
00:53:06
these loving fabulous parents who
00:53:08
you know hopefully you know many people
00:53:10
have got um
00:53:11
you're not as independent you know
00:53:13
whereas you know if you lose a parent
00:53:14
young you
00:53:15
end up sort of doing things for yourself
00:53:17
a little bit earlier
00:53:19
and so maybe that going back to that
00:53:20
responsibility the ownership piece and
00:53:22
i'm having to sort yourself out
00:53:24
and um you know means that people learn
00:53:26
some of the skills which enable their
00:53:28
talent
00:53:28
to then be used differently in the
00:53:30
future but there is a direct correlation
00:53:32
believe it or not i wish i could tell
00:53:33
it's like
00:53:34
the real psychology in the actual
00:53:35
article in the actual piece in the book
00:53:38
um but you just reminded me when you're
00:53:39
talking about it so i do think that some
00:53:42
people do have these extreme experiences
00:53:44
and i think that um it's almost easier
00:53:47
to
00:53:47
get to know ourselves and get to think
00:53:50
about life
00:53:51
and contextualize things um you know if
00:53:54
we're experiencing things which are
00:53:56
outside of our
00:53:57
i guess our normal field of vision i i
00:54:00
resonate a lot with that i um
00:54:02
you said you know lose a parent but the
00:54:04
reason i resonated with that is because
00:54:06
i've said multiple times on this podcast
00:54:07
again
00:54:08
um that when people have asked me why
00:54:10
why i was successful i i cite that when
00:54:13
i was younger my parents weren't ever in
00:54:14
the house
00:54:15
and that made meant that i had to find a
00:54:18
way to make money to feed myself or
00:54:20
you know my mum was never in the house
00:54:21
when i went to bed and she was never
00:54:22
there when i woke up because she was
00:54:23
just
00:54:24
she slept at her shop sometimes my dad
00:54:25
worked in london for six days a week
00:54:27
which was four hours away and i and it
00:54:30
was only
00:54:30
of the four of us in our my family the
00:54:32
four siblings
00:54:34
that wasn't the case for my older
00:54:35
siblings when they were
00:54:37
younger or when they were my age my mom
00:54:39
and dad were in the house every day
00:54:40
doing date nights
00:54:41
together and then when i grew up by the
00:54:43
age of 10 i could leave the house for
00:54:44
three days or two days
00:54:46
and they wouldn't actually know that i'd
00:54:47
gone and so that meant that i became
00:54:50
like this sort of self-autonomous kid at
00:54:51
like
00:54:52
12 13 14 50. and then started businesses
00:54:54
at 14 and then you know
00:54:55
went off but you could have gone the
00:54:56
other way as well couldn't you oh
00:54:59
you know with 100 you know with that
00:55:01
level of freedom and autonomy
00:55:03
but not the maturity and you know to
00:55:05
deal with that freedom
00:55:06
um my friend my best friend said to you
00:55:08
and i'll never forget where i stood when
00:55:10
he said it in this takeaway shop he said
00:55:11
stephen
00:55:12
you're either going to be a criminal or
00:55:14
a millionaire
00:55:15
and it was because i had that my
00:55:18
independence created this connection
00:55:19
where
00:55:20
i knew that my outcomes were going to be
00:55:22
a direct result
00:55:23
of my behavior i always think of like
00:55:25
school dinners as the perfect example
00:55:28
for a lot of my childhood maybe up until
00:55:30
the age of about nine my there was
00:55:31
always like two quid on the counter
00:55:33
which is like okay you take that to
00:55:34
school and then by ten the two quid
00:55:36
wasn't there anymore
00:55:36
yeah so it was like waking up in the
00:55:38
morning and being like how am i gonna
00:55:39
eat today i'd have to find a way so i'd
00:55:41
go and sell cigarettes
00:55:42
or you know i'd like i knew that there
00:55:44
were cigarettes in this this room
00:55:45
upstairs which my mum had got from
00:55:46
nigeria one one year
00:55:48
so i just went to school and i was just
00:55:50
shopping cigarettes or chewing gum and
00:55:51
it was that that connection i made super
00:55:53
early that
00:55:54
my outcomes are a direct and only
00:55:56
correlation of sort of
00:55:57
connected to my behavior um
00:56:00
so i resonate with that a lot and it
00:56:02
kind of explains the difference between
00:56:03
four kids that grew up in the same
00:56:04
household
00:56:05
and one the three of them went to
00:56:07
university llc cambridge whatever and
00:56:08
one of them dropped out of everything
00:56:09
got kicked out of school and became an
00:56:10
entrepreneur
00:56:12
it's true isn't it so it's not
00:56:14
necessarily the um
00:56:16
yeah the experience is how we translate
00:56:18
that experience and exactly how we
00:56:19
channel our feeling into something which
00:56:22
could be productive or destructive
00:56:24
you could have become a criminal and a
00:56:25
millionaire and got a job at this tory
00:56:26
government
00:56:28
you could be
00:56:36
yeah but the last thing i really wanted
00:56:38
to ask you about was um
00:56:40
you know this idea of distractions
00:56:42
social media is uh
00:56:43
made it incredibly easy to distract
00:56:45
ourselves and you see you know teams
00:56:47
becoming
00:56:48
much more distracted at work because of
00:56:50
all these screens and you know the
00:56:51
digitalization of the world and
00:56:53
individuals and
00:56:54
what are what's your thoughts on on why
00:56:56
we're so distracted and how to overcome
00:56:58
it
00:56:59
yeah um it's true that we are distracted
00:57:01
i think focus and concentration
00:57:03
have to be practiced so many things can
00:57:06
be improved
00:57:07
so um whether it's resilience whether
00:57:10
it's concentration
00:57:11
whether it's courage all these things
00:57:12
can be practiced so many think courage
00:57:14
for example i say courage is like a
00:57:16
muscle the more you exercise it the
00:57:18
stronger it gets
00:57:19
so it's possible to exercise all these
00:57:21
things and be better at them
00:57:22
and i think that um it's fine to be
00:57:24
distracted because it's actually quite
00:57:26
nice
00:57:26
to have different stimuli and different
00:57:28
um provocation
00:57:31
and so we just need to choose when it's
00:57:33
good to have that provocation
00:57:35
and change and when we need to
00:57:38
concentrate we need to practice both
00:57:40
now um uh here's the thing for you adam
00:57:43
is that
00:57:44
as human beings we don't multitask so
00:57:46
multitasking is a lie
00:57:48
so for all the um all the girls and all
00:57:50
the women watching this
00:57:52
and um oh listening to this um
00:57:55
i'm sorry to tell you it's not true you
00:57:57
don't multitask better than men
00:57:59
it's true amen it doesn't happen we're
00:58:02
both equally as bad now we're both
00:58:04
useless at it so what we do is we do
00:58:06
rapid switching
00:58:07
so we don't multitask we just want to
00:58:08
talk about exactly um this is why
00:58:10
actually
00:58:11
um i can't remember it was a couple of
00:58:12
years ago that the um
00:58:14
the blackberry network went down in abu
00:58:16
dhabi for a weekend from friday to
00:58:18
monday
00:58:19
had a 48 decrease in car accidents that
00:58:21
we get
00:58:22
really because as human beings we don't
00:58:24
multitask you don't
00:58:25
like check your text and drive well it
00:58:27
doesn't work
00:58:29
so um so i think that we are living in
00:58:31
an age where it's easy to be distracted
00:58:33
and some of these distractions are
00:58:35
incredibly useful um
00:58:37
we need to come back to greater
00:58:38
responsibility and choice
00:58:40
and um let's choose at home you know
00:58:42
when it's fine to do that and
00:58:43
it's fine not to be and um and practice
00:58:46
you know these levels of concentration
00:58:48
of focus that we may need for certain
00:58:49
tasks
00:58:50
but we may not for another so i quite
00:58:53
like
00:58:54
times when i can sit down and read a
00:58:56
book or absorb something or think about
00:58:58
something
00:58:58
and narrow my focus sometimes i quite
00:59:02
like
00:59:02
sort of tv being on music being on at um
00:59:05
phone next to me on the computer because
00:59:07
actually um i'm sometimes picking up on
00:59:09
certain things
00:59:10
which um for a level of creativity can
00:59:13
be quite useful and
00:59:14
a bit of provocation a bit of a bit of
00:59:17
changeability in my thinking because i
00:59:19
get distracted by something and come
00:59:21
back to it
00:59:22
i find that as well i find them for some
00:59:24
bizarre reason if i
00:59:26
if i go for a walk or if i go to the gym
00:59:29
uh inspiration floods into me but when
00:59:31
i'm stood sat in my office
00:59:33
trying to think of stuff it's yeah
00:59:34
almost impossible the shower is another
00:59:36
weird place where my ideas seem to
00:59:38
show up all at once and it's like i'm
00:59:40
not like this isn't hyperbole i'm not
00:59:42
exaggerating at all like if i
00:59:44
if i'm sat here and i'm trying to think
00:59:45
of something to write or whatever yeah
00:59:47
i go for a walk and sometimes i put my
00:59:49
my music in
00:59:51
it's like non-stop and i find that quite
00:59:54
you know
00:59:55
interesting yeah teams are often trying
00:59:57
to think of ideas and creativity and
01:00:00
if you say to people where do you have
01:00:01
your best ideas and have
01:00:03
asked people that question whatever your
01:00:04
best ideas do you know what they'll say
01:00:05
well i'm walking the dog
01:00:06
and when i'm in the shower just about to
01:00:08
fall off the sleep
01:00:10
um on the commute over breakfast uh you
01:00:14
know
01:00:14
um they'll they'll they'll come up with
01:00:16
all some recreational drugs they'll come
01:00:17
up with all sorts of stuff
01:00:19
but no one will ever say in a boardroom
01:00:22
with some mints on the table and a jug
01:00:23
of water
01:00:24
no one will ever say that but but where
01:00:26
do we where do we
01:00:28
um you know try and create ideas in the
01:00:30
business at all we get them around this
01:00:31
boardroom table
01:00:33
no one ever said don't get me wrong you
01:00:35
can't get your team in the shower with
01:00:36
you
01:00:36
maybe you've tried i don't know what
01:00:37
it's like around here maybe you've tried
01:00:38
i don't know yourself
01:00:40
better but um but yeah maybe
01:00:44
yeah maybe we can't do that but we've
01:00:45
got to find a way of trying to
01:00:47
you know uh create a more natural
01:00:49
environment for people to flourish
01:00:51
and i do say to you many organizations i
01:00:53
say to them that you know you're
01:00:54
too quick to train the people rather
01:00:56
than fix the environment
01:00:58
you know people say oh i need more
01:00:59
innovative people they don't um you know
01:01:01
we need to train them on innovation
01:01:03
no you don't let's try and create a
01:01:04
culture an environment where people
01:01:06
are free to express themselves the
01:01:09
problem we've got is that you know we're
01:01:10
so
01:01:10
we're so convergent in our thinking and
01:01:13
uh you know
01:01:14
we start off as divergent thinkers we
01:01:16
start off making really weird
01:01:17
connections
01:01:18
um i had a six-year-old once um asked me
01:01:21
what does the number nine smell like
01:01:23
amazing question i think that's probably
01:01:25
the best question i've ever been asked
01:01:27
well do you respect the interviewer
01:01:28
today i was going to say that but um but
01:01:30
you know what's the number nine smell
01:01:31
like it's a great question
01:01:33
um yeah was the last time you heard a
01:01:34
ceo ask that question they don't
01:01:37
um you know children ask these divergent
01:01:39
questions because they make the
01:01:40
connection between two things
01:01:41
usually unconnected um and then you go
01:01:44
to school and the school says
01:01:46
why are you asking that we're doing
01:01:47
numbers today just concentrate on the
01:01:48
numbers
01:01:49
um and then we go from divergent
01:01:51
thinkers to convergent thinkers
01:01:53
and our careers get better because of it
01:01:55
our businesses get better because of it
01:01:58
and making simple connections you know
01:01:59
margins down okay we need to do this you
01:02:01
know revenue's down okay we need to do
01:02:03
that
01:02:03
um but what do we need in today's
01:02:06
society in today's world
01:02:08
and um i think we need convergent
01:02:10
thinking i think we need to move back
01:02:12
and and get into that divergent space
01:02:14
again
01:02:15
and yeah who are the most successful
01:02:16
people you know at the moment and people
01:02:18
are making really weird connections
01:02:20
people who this is where uber and airbnb
01:02:21
and all these things come from
01:02:23
it's from people who are making a
01:02:25
connection between two things previously
01:02:26
unconnected because they're still
01:02:28
divergent
01:02:29
so let's try and create some
01:02:31
environments where
01:02:32
people are free to explore experiment
01:02:35
free to
01:02:36
break some of the rules and to talk
01:02:38
about things which are
01:02:39
um which are not easily put together and
01:02:42
i think that that's the best way in
01:02:43
which we can
01:02:44
see the opportunity and possibilities in
01:02:47
in this changing world in which we live
01:02:48
in
01:02:49
how do people find you what's the best
01:02:51
uh yeah i think i mean
01:02:52
uh twitter or linkedin really i don't
01:02:54
use anything i don't use facebook or
01:02:56
anything like that so um for your
01:02:57
website
01:02:58
so you're on my website into me people
01:03:00
contact me through my website but i used
01:03:02
uh i started using twitter again and but
01:03:04
linkedin is great for me
01:03:05
i can imagine there are about 30 000
01:03:07
people on linkedin and that's really
01:03:08
where
01:03:09
where i sort of communicate have you um
01:03:12
how do you find social media just out of
01:03:14
interest in terms of life
01:03:16
i'm a bit like an alcoholic who can't
01:03:17
get the top of the bottle
01:03:19
yeah i mean i mean i love the idea of it
01:03:22
but um you know i am you know i i think
01:03:24
oh god i should be doing more
01:03:26
um but um but i but i just don't
01:03:30
people say that you should if it's not
01:03:31
you should you should do yeah well
01:03:33
but you know what it's funny one of the
01:03:34
advices that i give people at the moment
01:03:36
if it ain't broke you should break it
01:03:38
because um you know we almost need to
01:03:40
give up what's allowing us to be
01:03:41
successful
01:03:42
to allow us to be successful and um you
01:03:45
know i know it's a counterintuitive
01:03:46
argument it makes perfect sense to be
01:03:48
honest i mean that's the
01:03:48
definition what innovation is right yeah
01:03:50
it's breaking the blueprint so
01:03:52
so i think that you know and again look
01:03:54
it's probably my running isn't it it's
01:03:55
one of those things which are
01:03:56
uncomfortable so i probably don't do it
01:03:58
so um so what i should do is is
01:04:01
try and find out more about you know
01:04:03
social media and then
01:04:04
i'll have a look at your social channels
01:04:05
after and obviously we've got a lot of
01:04:06
content from this so
01:04:07
we can send it to you in a way that will
01:04:09
do perform well if you post it so listen
01:04:11
thank you for your time
01:04:12
today thank you very very generous and
01:04:13
it's a really inspiring conversation
01:04:14
that's uh
01:04:15
i actually want to read it's one of the
01:04:16
few conversations where i'm like i
01:04:17
really need to re-listen to this again
01:04:19
and maybe with my notepad out and really
01:04:21
take notes because there's so many
01:04:23
ideas that are really really profound at
01:04:26
times that i'm like i'm trying to hold
01:04:28
on to and then
01:04:28
because you're because you're full of
01:04:30
them i'm i'm going back i'm thinking
01:04:32
you know what i mean because there's so
01:04:33
much intelligence condensed in such a
01:04:35
short period of time very kind
01:04:37
no i really mean that as well yeah
01:04:42
sometimes i have experts on that have
01:04:44
really well studied in their field
01:04:46
and the things you say as someone who's
01:04:48
ran a multinational business with 700
01:04:50
employees for the last 10 years of my
01:04:51
life
01:04:52
i'm like perfect sense and i i really
01:04:55
want to i could unpack all of those
01:04:56
individual topics more but yeah
01:04:58
thank you such a pleasure to have you
01:04:59
thank you thank you for inviting me
01:05:15
[Music]
