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so New Year's resolutions around the corner I think 9% of resolutions stick what advice have you got for me okay so
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let's say I wanted to lose weight the first thing is realizing that all of our lives are about habits not goals the
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second aspect of this is one of the most effective strategies to brainwash yourself to form these new habits and
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that is Chase Hughes is a former military veteran turned world-renowned expert in behavioral analysis and human
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influence he has trained Secret Service agents Navy SEAL leaders CEOs and government officials to master
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communication behavioral detection and persuasion you can look at three factors every single time to determine why
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someone was successful or why they failed the first is self-mastery where we look at confidence body language
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discipline and authority and we know that people are hyper responsive to Authority but how do we establish
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Authority ourselves Authority is made up of five things and that's number two is
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their level of observation and there's five C's that we talk about in Behavior profiling should we get into but my
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favorite example and one of the fastest ways to get a read on another human being is how often they're BL bling if I
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start seeing an increase in someone's blink rate I know I need to change the subject right away interesting and the
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third their level of communication and if you want to learn how to start a conversation or continue one this is for
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you it comes down to understanding the type of person that you are in front of now segregate people into six groups and
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that'll influence the best way to talk to those people so we can get into if you want please okay number one what
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about how to win an argument what are the things I should definitely not do so the big mistake most people make is
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don't do that this has always blown my mind a little
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bit 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribe to the show so could I ask you for a favor
00:01:40
before we start if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the
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Subscribe button and my commitment to you is if you do that then I'll do everything in my power me and my team to
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make sure that this show is better for you every single week we'll listen to your feedback we'll find the guest that
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you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do thank you so
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much Chase Hughes who are you and what is your mission I'm a behavior guy
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Behavior expert and I think I've just set out to teach
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people that there is an entire world that other people can't really see don't
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have access to and I think for the last 10,000 years of recorded history you can
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look at any event or any leader of any country and everything that dictates the outcomes of situations comes down to
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human factors every time no matter if there's economic turmoil there's people getting pissed off about an economy
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there's AI or technology innovations that are happening it everything comes down to human interactions and whether
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or not you can manage yourself you're a good leader who the good leaders are and who can persuade the people to feel a
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certain way and who'd you do it for I think I'd do it for people that have
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gone through a period in their life realizing that there's an invisible advantage that some other people have
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the people that got successful maybe have some kind of advantage that they're not able to to
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tangibly see and I think showing them that this is one of the biggest lovers
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that you could ever pull in your life is the most rewarding and fascinating thing
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to see someone go through this transition to realize that this human behavior stuff dictates outcomes in life
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when you say this you're referring to human behavior and is human behavior is
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it like a set of tactics is it like a form of psychology what is what is this
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when you say the word this when I say human behavior I mean that when a person
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becomes successful or they become a failure you can look at three factors
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every single time to determine why someone was successful or why they failed that is their level of
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self-mastery their level of observation like can they read the room can they read the person that they're actually
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talking to and their level of communication can they speak influentially can they talk
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about outcomes in a way that inspire people and motivate people and can they communicate in a persuasive way that
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moves people and who exactly have you worked with lots of government agencies
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uh notably I've worked with intelligence agencies I've worked with the psychological operations Department the
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US Army which is the Special Operations Command I've trained a lot of the US Navy leaders nowadays
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and a lot of civilians are my main base of clients right now what do
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intelligence what do you do for intelligence agents so when we talk to intelligence agents the number one thing
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that we train them in is recognizing human behavior and we also teach
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interrogation and we tend to teach like if I'm doing an interrogation it's kind of the same as if I'm uh an intelligence
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officer somewhere trying to talk somebody into spying on their own country for us both of those things are
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about talking someone into doing something that's not really in their best interest so when it comes down to
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that that's really where we get to the point the rubber meets the road can you talk someone into doing
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something that they a normally wouldn't do which is maybe sales because they normally they wouldn't have otherwise
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done that or B in the interrogation world can I talk you into something that you wouldn't want to do because it's not
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your best interest like confessing to a crime or providing intelligence or something like that and that's where we
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really do a lot of the training for police and government next to me there's
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this massive book called The behavior Ops manual it's probably the biggest book I've ever seen um what is the
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wealth of experience that have fed into this body of work that book right there is my entire life so probably 30 to
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40,000 hours of of research on this stuff every technique that I've ever learned or taught every method that
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we've ever used for interrogations or persuasion or influence all that stuff is inside of the behavior Ops manual and
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I wrote that book and we can get into that if you want to right now I received a brain diagnosis where I thought I was
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going to lose my brain and I was desperate I'm just wondering how's my
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family going to feed itself so I wanted to put every single piece of knowledge
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that I've ever created or I've ever come up with for any government agent everything all on the table and that's
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what this book was it's just the culmination of everything and you served in the military yourself I did for 20
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years what is the most common thing that people come to your work for like if you were to
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encapsulate it into like a sentence what they're searching for in their own personal lives it would be a person
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that is lacking some degree of control in some aspect of their
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life and it's typically they think they need skills most of my clients come to
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me saying I want the technique I want the skill teach me the the recipe to do X Y and Z what do I say on the phone
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give me a new sales script so I have this model called the acss model that I trained to my entire staff and that acss
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model stands for Authority Comfort social skills and then
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skills 90% of people say they need more skills but what they need is Authority or comfort and they can't be comfortable
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in a conversation so I could give you like I would talk to these clients and I would
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say I could spend $10 million write the best persuasion script for whatever your
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ideal outcome is hand you this thing on a silver platter and if you're not comfortable in that conversation you're
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not going to be successful so I could give it to somebody with social anxiety and have them go read this out loud it's
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not Harry Potter we're not reading spells it's not a spell so a lot of
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people's problems come from Comfort a lack of being able to be comfortable in in a conversation and the level of
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authority that they might have and I don't mean hierarchical Authority I just mean personal Authority but they don't
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know it they think it's I need more social skills I need to learn small talk or I need this little technique so every
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time the one thing I tell every client is if I give you a flight checklist
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right now for a a small plane Cessna 172 are you a pilot no having this
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little checklist of what to do does not give you the skill so a lot of that so
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much of that comes from comfort and the problem that a lot of people have is they're competing with other people on
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height on looks on social status money hierarchy confidence all this other stuff the number one thing you need to
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compare yourself with other people on is Comfort that's it is can I be more
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comfortable than the other person in in this conversation because our brains are naturally wired to compete we can't turn
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competition off but we can change what they're focused on and if they're focused on Comfort we win a lot more
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conversations Comfort yeah how does that manifest is that just like being like physically comfortable what is that yeah
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it would be physical comfort so one of the challenges I give to people is for
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your first week all the only thing I want you to focus on I'm not going to give you the this long list to go look into your phone and have to read it
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before every meeting the one thing I want you to focus on this week is can you move
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slower than the other people in the room that's it just adjusting the speed limit on your body so if you were standing in
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a swimming pool how fast would your arms and legs move if you were underwater and make that the speed limit for this
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entire week that's all I want you to focus on and that makes so many changes in people's mind because we change our
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bodies and we change how our emotions are feeling and there's one thing that fear does it speeds our body up so if
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you see someone doing these rapid jerky movements you're you're seeing mostly
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fear or stress in their body so get more comfortable in an
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interaction conversation even if it's on the phone or in person yeah so on the phone it would be
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speaking at a normal composed Pace okay and then so step two is composure can I
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get you into a place where you have some composure and the left and right side of composure we have collapse and we have
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posturing so we I have a person that makes themselves small so other people can be comfortable or I make myself big
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so other people can get away from me and we have we see that with every aspect of
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our lives like when I first started my business or when I first got out of the military these people called me for a
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keynote so this guy calls me and he's like what's your hourly rate and I said
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6K uh and I said that's including travel and all that and the only thing he did he didn't say anything on the phone he
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just goes that's it he just made that noise and right away I said oh yeah but we
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could do a discount I could probably do like 5K we could even take some off 50% I could even take 75% since you're here
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here and I have to do this it just made up excuses and I almost got to the point where I was like let me pay you I'll
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give you some money if you come let me speak on stage for you and that's collapse so that's I'm in
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collapse in some areas of my life I might posture in some areas of my life and our goal is to get out of that swing
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but the problem most people have if I'm living in collapse the solution looks
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like posturing and we see this in like guys that learn pickup like I'm going to
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learn how to posture because it's the opposite of what I'm doing it's not the center where I need to be and what is
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the center that's that's composure that would be composure and I would say composure is a combination of the things
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that make up authority and authority is made up of five things and that's confidence discipline leadership
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gratitude and enjoyment so I have an Authority inventory this is day one the
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first thing that I give to intelligence people or I've got a guy that owns a car dealership whoever the client is and
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it's the authority assessment it assesses you on those things and wherever your lowest point is that's
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what's keeping you from being successful in most conversations when you need to persuade somebody and it pinpoints it
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very quickly and if I could go into this a little further um the way that we live
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our lives off camera I'm sure you would agree you just had Vanessa van Edwards on uh it it bleeds out in our body
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language it bleeds out in not just body language but how we breathe how we talk how we come across so even if I read
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that article on LinkedIn of 19 ways to look more confident and it says well have better posture sit up straighter
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shake hands make better eye contact I did all of that and I look really
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presentable but back home I've got a 8ot pile of laundry sitting in the bedroom
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my bed's nasty I've got dishes all piled up in the sink there's a part of our brain that's somehow dedicated to
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reminding us I'm faking it right now and that comes across so whether we're doing
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it consciously or uncons consciously we're manufacturing gut feelings in other
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people so our job is to manufacture better gut feelings and the five most
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common ways that those bleed out in our everyday life is how we manage five areas of our life and that is our
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environment like do I take care of my environment my uh time
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appearance my social life and my financial life because those are the
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those are the five things we worry about in the back of our head that start bleeding out these gut feelings because we've all had a conversation where
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everything on the surface looked great but afterwards we were like something
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was off I don't know what it was but something just didn't feel right about that guy and we've all had that little
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experience and getting a hold of your those five
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qualities that make up Authority are the fastest way to get success in your life and just drastically start changing your
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life so it's really that the controllable element it's our environment our time our appearance our social life and our finances that's the
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like controllable Foundation to all these other things um that we talked about yeah so that would be the the
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bottom Foundation of that little pyramid and the far left side of that triangle
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would be confidence discipline leadership gratitude and enjoyment yeah and those elements alone produce
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feelings in other people that make them see an authority figure and you've heard of the milgrim
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experiment oh gosh it reminds me of something I read when I was 16 in Psychology class in a textbook probably
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did that was the one where they got people to shock each other yeah please explain all right let me give you a quick recap it's Yale University I think
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it's 1962 and Yale runs an ad in the paper says come help us with this study on
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learning and we'll give you 20 bucks or lunch voucher or something like that so all these volunteers come out and
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there's a tall guy in a lab coat and a official clipboard there and there's one
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other volunteer and you draw straws one of you is the teacher one of you is the learner so you're led into this room you
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watch this learner guy get strapped up he's on this table getting strapped up to this electric shock machine and every
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time he gets a question on this quiz wrong you've got to shock him you have to hit the button and every Progressive
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question you increase the voltage on this machine that goes all the way up on the far right to xXx danger severe shock
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is what it says on there but the whole time you're shocking him the you can hear the guy screaming
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on the other side of the wall he's screaming and Midway through the process the guy's banging on the wall he's like
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I have a heart condition I don't want to do this anymore I'm out I quit I don't want to do the experiment and 90% of
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these people will turn around to the guy in the lab coat and the guy in the lab coat is like please continue it's important that you continue the
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experiment so they keep going and going and almost to the end no more response it's just silence the guy
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doesn't even respond to questions and the guy in the lab coat says any non-answer has to be
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treated as if it were an incorrect answer please continue and they keep going and going and going and you you
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can watch some some of these are on video and you just watch this their faces toward the
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end these psychiatrists at the beginning of this predicted less than 1% would go
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all the way 67% of people will go all the way
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and 250 volts is enough to kill you 100% went up to 250 the presence of novelty
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and Authority did everything it made a person commit murder and that's I would say I would
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argue that's more difficult than selling someone a car and that Authority comes in that
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particular example came from going to the university the lab coat Etc but how do we establish Authority ourselves is
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it going back to the things you said there about environment appearance Etc finances yeah is there like are are
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there physical expressions of that Authority in a day-to-day basis there are slowness of movement is one of the
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most common so we have slowness of movement so the right side of that Authority triangle has five letters on
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it and that stands for movement appearance confidence connection and intent is our intent visible that
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outward sign of authority is what a lot of people tend to look for
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what does Authority look like but what we're really doing is I want to look up
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the symptoms of authority not the cause because we all these LinkedIn articles
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YouTube videos that are saying how to have more confidence how to do x y and z are how to have the symptoms instead of
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the cause of authority so people with authority tend to sit up straight but
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they don't sit up straight because they read an article they sit up straight because they see the world a certain way
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and that's so much of a difference between changing my world view versus
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changing my posture that's very different outcomes and we're still generating those gut feelings in people
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interesting have you worked with many people that come to you and they've got a clear Authority problem is there a
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particular example you can think of where you were able to help someone turn their life around many hundreds give me your favorite example my favorite
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example was a big CEO he's in Los Angeles
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and he ask me for skills he starts off I need I need the flight checklist I don't need to learn to fly I just need the
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checklist uh but it takes me a while to kind of walk people back and say like let's get to the root of this because
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you can't just openly say you have an authority and and comfort problem
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and his employees would like openly make fun of him in
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board meetings and stuff like that and he didn't like it and it it his company
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was going downhill so fast and I took him through this process of gaining
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let's let's build up your confidence discipline leadership gratitude and enjoyment all of those things and let's
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find where your lowest point is of those five if I could just find your lowest point on that five list then I know the
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highest leverage thing that I can do so if the highest leverage that he can do would be confidence that's the number
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one thing I'm going to start working on and the moment we took him through that process say it was only a couple of months and we used a lot of hypnosis we
00:20:01
used a lot of um I literally used brainwashing techniques to help him so
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it's the same techniques and you know what uh cognitive behavioral therapy was also a a form of brainwashing back in
00:20:13
the day and aversion therapy um but within just a few months he went from
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around I think 6 to 800k per month to like 4 million a month all of his
00:20:26
employees were on board he he did he had this huge shift the problem comes when
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you're when you're a coach and you make someone's life change that fast they have to have an
00:20:39
excuse they can't go back to the office and like they're different right so they have to say some this thing happened to
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me I had this thing so that's the first thing I work out with every client is like you need you're going to have to go back and tell them something happened
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that changed your life because you have to have a reason that you're going back different so watching that
00:20:57
transformation is so so so rewarding and incredible but the confidence is usually
00:21:03
what you have to change first with people how'd you do that you change how
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what's going on inside their head so you've gone on stage before probably a thousand or 2,000 people you were on TV
00:21:15
for a while even after you've been
00:21:20
successful have you ever even heard a tiny voice that said why am I here or
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like do I deserve to be here yeah I mean this is a prime example of that yeah yeah or I'm faking it people are going
00:21:33
to find out I'm I'm faking it well you feel like that when you're a podcaster because you you didn't get any official qualifications and then people started
00:21:39
listening and then there's they think that you know what you're doing or you so I think I can tell that as a
00:21:45
podcaster yeah so and they never go away so the difference between a person who's
00:21:50
confident and a person who doesn't have confidence is that they hear those voices as truth
00:21:59
and I hear them or somebody with confidence hears them as fiction they're both listening to the
00:22:05
same thing so imagine like as a quick story if I if you and I were going to lunch I said Stephen I'm going to come
00:22:11
pick you up I pull up in front of your house you jump in the passenger side we're heading off and I'm listening to
00:22:19
an audio book about a nuclear bomb going off but it's inside the audiobook
00:22:26
there's a fake news report about a nuclear bomb going off let's say it's a pretend BBC broadcast or
00:22:32
something that's going off that it's in the audiobook we start driving I'm relaxed I'm focused on the
00:22:39
road I'm enjoying what I'm doing your heart rate's increased you're fearful you're a migdala is firing off you're in
00:22:45
this horrible state of like oh my God what H what's going to happen to my family we're both hearing the exact same
00:22:52
broadcast we're listening to the same speakers at the same time but I know that I'm hearing fiction
00:22:59
and you are worried that it's truth I don't mean to use you as as that example but
00:23:05
it's that's the easiest way to to describe it and then just fundamentally
00:23:11
changing how you hear that voice and nine times I think 10 times out of 10
00:23:18
that voice was developed when you were eight or nine what did that kid do and this is what I would ask any of the
00:23:24
clients what did that kid do to make friends or keep them so friends to feel
00:23:31
safe now we're in the safety like how did I get to feel safe and what did I do
00:23:36
to earn rewards and for some people that might be recognition for other kids who
00:23:42
had a bad start in life that might be water or food might have been a reward
00:23:47
for those kids so the way that we keep or earn friends the way that we get
00:23:53
rewards as a child and the way that we feel what we have to do to feel safe
00:23:59
those develop as little apps in our brain that run in the background of our adult lives all the time and we
00:24:07
typically as a kid they're great they might have kept us safe they might have kept us alive they might have held us
00:24:12
inside of these Social Circles but I'm going to be a dick to people so that they don't get close to me or I'm going
00:24:18
to kiss up to authority figures like Mom and Dad so I'll get some recognition and praise and that becomes an app that we
00:24:27
carry into adulthood without knowing it without our consent without our awareness that little kid brings these
00:24:33
things into adulthood and they just modify so I go from having to kiss up to
00:24:38
a narcissistic mother to I'm going to I'm going to kiss the boss's ass every
00:24:44
single day and everybody knows me as the office kiss ass so they just translate
00:24:51
from child to adult behavior and if I can start understanding that then I can
00:24:56
start getting that person to understand the fundamental way to change their life and I make them put those phrases out in
00:25:04
the open to where it's so I want them to be pissed off so I will make them get a
00:25:10
desktop wallpaper that says I don't deserve money money is for other people
00:25:17
just just to make their brains see how stupid it is on a regular basis and put it on a motivational
00:25:22
poster and the second part of that is I any anybody who's confident has a
00:25:30
generalized expectation of positive outcomes not specific but things are going to be fine things are going to be
00:25:36
fine so if I can do that you can fundamentally change someone's life so
00:25:43
the final point of that which leads into discipline is I need to get you to form a relationship with your future
00:25:51
self because everything that goes into on in our life has to do with our mamalian brain this lower part of our
00:25:57
brain here and it doesn't speak English there's no affirmation that's going to
00:26:03
penetrate that barrier there's no like I'm going to read a quote on a wall or a
00:26:09
PowerPoint slide that's going to fundamentally change Behavior you have to change the animal the Mamon part of
00:26:15
the brain so the question I ask everybody that I'm training is how would I teach it to a
00:26:21
dog how would I how would I show my goals if I'm setting goals for next year
00:26:27
how would I show that to a dog cuz I have to get it down to a mammal so the
00:26:32
fastest way to do that is through Visual means so I have all of my clients download this app I can't remember the
00:26:39
name of it there's probably a hundred but it makes you look like 95 yeah and you're just covered in
00:26:46
wrinkles it makes a lot of your hair kind of go away and I make them print it out and put it everywhere just for a
00:26:53
couple of weeks and now we start developing a mental mamalian in
00:26:58
relationship with our future self which changes how I eat changes how I spend money it changes maybe what time I go to
00:27:05
bed how much alcohol I drink and mostly uh where I'm getting my dopamine from if
00:27:11
I draw a map of everywhere I'm getting my dopamine from and more than 50% of it
00:27:17
is on alcohol or porn or you know all of these things that I don't want that's
00:27:23
you have to be very very honest with yourself at that point of where do I need to get dopamine front of in my life
00:27:30
and successful people every single successful person that I've ever met has a good dopamine map so they they get
00:27:37
dopamine from good sources instead of bad ones and is there a relationship between discipline and confidence I
00:27:44
think so very much it's like if if you and I were sitting in an airport together let's say we're sitting in
00:27:49
Atlanta airport and I just asked you with and you're not a behavior profiler
00:27:54
as far as I know but I said Stephen look around and find somebody that's disciplined it would take you 5 seconds
00:28:02
because we don't need to to profile people that's a natural thing that you picked up on it on purpose but we pick
00:28:08
up on it unconsciously all the time so having that level of discipline elevates our level of confidence automatically
00:28:15
because we know that other people are going to pick up on it but we also know I'm moving up and I'm probably more in
00:28:22
control of myself than the person that I'm talking to or the people that I'm I'm dealing with regularly so so how we
00:28:28
live off camera is coming through in our confidence that's the exact thing that we were talking about that environment
00:28:35
time appearance and if I can live off camera the same
00:28:40
way that I want to be perceived by everybody in my life my confidence already starts to
00:28:47
grow and you said enjoyment as well was one of the five yeah why is enjoyment
00:28:52
important I added it on there it it took a while but I walked through every body
00:28:58
I've ever trained and if you look at everyone who is a natural leader and has that level of authority they are not
00:29:06
just partying in the moment but just in calmly enjoying what is happening now so
00:29:13
maybe you could call it mindfulness but I think in just the trait of enjoyment
00:29:19
and being in enjoyment is the most magnetic human trait that there is what do I need to know about
00:29:26
observation which is the second part of your triangle to success or
00:29:32
failure observation being able to read a room is it possible to be able to read a room yeah how would I go about reading a
00:29:39
room okay so if if you're reading like a public area yeah let's go back to the airport maybe yeah if I'm in a public
00:29:47
area I really want to pay attention to the slowest moving person in the room I
00:29:52
want to pay attention to who is more confident than the other person and that's typically going back to speed and
00:30:00
if I'm if I'm reading other people well I'm also making a lot of eye contact
00:30:05
with them so that's also one of the fastest ways to get a read on another human being is how often they're
00:30:12
blinking and if a person is blinking fast it's a sign of high stress if
00:30:19
they're blinking really slow it's a sign of focus so it's not always relaxation
00:30:25
so if I talk to a psychopath and a interrogation room or in a business
00:30:30
negotiation and they're very focused on prey so we call that a prey Focus because they're going to
00:30:36
manipulate somebody their blink rate will almost be at zero if I talk to somebody who's being deceptive their
00:30:43
blink rate can go up to like a 75 80 without us even knowing it so one of the
00:30:48
reasons that blink rate is so reliable is that it's unconscious we don't realize the shifts in blink rate and we
00:30:55
don't manually control it very well and if all that I would ever need to
00:31:00
teach somebody you don't have to count or know how many times per minute it's going on is if I'm in a conversation I'm
00:31:07
going to start the conversation and say is the blink rate normal does it look fast does it look slow so what I'm
00:31:13
really looking for in human behavior are changes changes so if I'm on stage and
00:31:19
if I'm let's say I'm doing a keynote and across the room I'm making eye contact with all these people and I start seeing
00:31:25
an increase in audience blink rate I I know I need to change the subject or change the topic right away so would you
00:31:32
be looking at one particular person no so generally yeah so I would look at all
00:31:38
of these eyes and pretend like I'm looking at one human okay does that make sense getting
00:31:43
an average of the yeah so as I'm looking around how many blinks do I see and I'm going to pretend as if that was one
00:31:49
human eye okay so when you get a lower blink rate people are paying more
00:31:55
attention yeah you're doing a great job and you can I go to these pitch meetings where these uh entrepreneurs will go up
00:32:01
and Pitch these Angel Investors and stuff like that up in Washington and you can measure who will pitch based on
00:32:08
blink rate you see a blink rate drop that is the most interested person in the room we do the same thing with jury
00:32:15
selection it's so reliable and you you read these articles about like someone
00:32:21
breathing into their chest it takes a while to get good at that with your peripheral vision because I've taught it
00:32:27
to people and they would have spend a conversation with someone staring at their chest and especially if you're
00:32:32
talking to a woman it's a bad idea so blink rate is incredibly reliable so to
00:32:39
recap that skill yeah I start a conversation does it look pretty normal is it pretty fast or kind of slow then
00:32:46
I'm going to look for changes and that's all I'm looking for in a room of people is what's
00:32:51
changing so 70 is deceptive and zero is
00:32:56
psychopath 70 is stress not always decep okay and zero is psychopath basically
00:33:03
zero might be psychopath context is the second letter C there's five C's that we
00:33:08
talk about in Behavior profiling so change then context MH so now it like
00:33:14
somebody just crossed their arms and you read the internet it says it's being defensive withholding closed off see all
00:33:20
that stuff well what if it's freezing cold yeah so now we have Contex so interesting that actually happened in my
00:33:25
last conversation I um I try not to close off my body when I'm doing this cuz some sometimes my natural reaction
00:33:31
is to go like this and then sometimes especially in here when it gets later and we didn't have the fan in the heater
00:33:37
I would go like this yeah and what I'm if like the I was thinking but this is rude the rude to the guest but I looked
00:33:43
at my arms and I had these like massive Goosebumps and I was like that's the context yeah the context is I'm freezing yeah but to the guest it would
00:33:50
look like I'm going like this yeah you know so this is why body language is so
00:33:56
delicate I think is delicate and it's so hard to for people to do peer-reviewed research on it because there's a million
00:34:05
variables it's like saying well why should Roger Federer win a tennis match
00:34:10
when he doesn't have any peer-reviewed studies to back up what he's doing yeah it's the same thing with body language
00:34:17
because like they're doing interrogation research so they're saying that a
00:34:23
college kid who gets a lunch voucher and walks in and pretends to to lie about a
00:34:29
duck is exactly the same as someone who's been captured in combat sleep
00:34:34
deprived for a few days has a black hood over their head and they're drugg into an interrogation room and they're saying those behaviors are identical then
00:34:41
there's the peer-reviewed research on lying and not lying it's so you cannot
00:34:47
replicate human behavior that well so and people treat it like it's a pharmaceutical like I can put a Tylenol
00:34:53
in somebody and I can measure all these responses and it doesn't really go into aad spr sheet like that and there's a
00:34:59
lot of great research out there but I'd say it's just so incredibly hard to replicate everything in with perfection
00:35:06
like that so what was the first C first C is change I want to look for a change
00:35:11
and then you want to look at context is there a third C that would be clusters clusters so then you read articles that
00:35:17
say someone looks a certain way or does a certain thing that might be deceptive like the most common one I hear is
00:35:24
someone touches their nose so someone touching their nose might be being de cve if you're just seeing one
00:35:30
thing I would say that never almost never means anything you want to look for a cluster of behavior so they
00:35:37
started getting nervous which is a change they're it's because I'm asking about where they were on Wednesday night
00:35:42
there's the context and while they were getting nervous they also started protecting their genitals with their hands and licking their lips which is a
00:35:50
hygienic gesture that we do so now I have a change within the context that's
00:35:55
appropriate and there's a cluster of Behavior after that I screen through
00:36:01
culture is there some part of this person's culture or background uh that makes them do that like I was with a
00:36:07
young person we were watching a Pakistani person get inter interrogated
00:36:14
and you know how you you commonly see that kind of headshake oh yeah in that region of the world they said I was
00:36:20
shaking his head while he's saying yes like now we get down to that sea this is culture which rules out uh that Behavior
00:36:28
or gets rid of it and finally the most the least important thing on that list is the
00:36:33
checklist and by checklist I mean there is a list of known behaviors that are
00:36:39
likely to be deception and if you're in body language you deal in likelihood that's all we deal in some people say
00:36:45
they're 100% sure on stuff and I'm skeptical but we deal in likelihood so
00:36:52
we should always process in that so someone licking their lips or moving a certain way if it's in on a checklist
00:37:00
does not mean that it's deceptive MH cuz what if they do it all the time then we don't have a change does that make sense
00:37:07
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I was thinking about things I used to do when I was younger and there was just a period of my life where for some bizarre reason I
00:37:12
used to go like this and I used to do it all the time a tick it was almost like a tick yeah you know what's really weird I
00:37:18
think this sounds like a really crazy thing to say but one of my best friends had like
00:37:26
curtains like the haircut curtains okay and he used to flick it and I almost like
00:37:32
vicariously picked up the like flicking from him I'd go like that all the time but I was just thinking if someone saw
00:37:38
me doing that they would perceive that as some some form of behavior whereas it was just this weird thing that lasted
00:37:44
for like two years when I was younger and then went away yeah but did you do it all the time I just did it I oh I
00:37:50
don't know I felt like I just did it randomly but that that wouldn't be a change okay yeah if I if I was meting
00:37:56
you yeah and you were on the Dragon's Den for a while still yeah and people pitch you yeah all
00:38:03
kinds of ideas that just having somebody on the show or just having those skills with
00:38:10
you you could see through a lot of those people and whether or not they're being honest about what they're pitching
00:38:16
they're confident about what they're pitching and you could look at a show like Shark Tank and I can look at I can
00:38:23
watch any episode of Shark Tank and look who's blinking the least MH they're they're going to be the first to make an
00:38:28
offer 99% of the time because they're the most focused on what's going on they're they're personally
00:38:35
invested so that's fascinating is that just you could just look at one or two things and predict stress or focus and
00:38:46
just being able to do that if you just took that one thing away from this that would be a
00:38:51
superpower because I sit here with guests right and they talk about their life stories and stuff and I often see some patterns of Behavior yeah
00:38:58
specifically like closing up when you ask someone something about their childhood or a specific sensitive
00:39:04
subject in their life you tend to see like self I call it like self- soothing Behavior to some degree so it's
00:39:10
difficult and it's funny because we we're all like amateur body language experts now yeah because there's been a
00:39:16
lot of stuff online saying spot this did they touch their nose Etc so it can also be dangerous it can and it can give us
00:39:22
these like oh I saw this one thing I'm never doing business with that guy yeah and like he scratched his nose three
00:39:27
times while he was talking about that well he's look in his briefcase he's got allergy medication in there he's
00:39:33
scratching his nose the season just changed it Springtime his nose is red when he came in so he's been scratching
00:39:38
it for 30 minutes before he walked in the door so now we we start to realize I'm not seeing a change I'm seeing
00:39:45
something that was repetitive and communication is the third one in the Triangle to success or failure
00:39:52
communication so what I've got so far is talking slow is higher authority yeah is there anything else that if I want to be
00:39:58
a master Communicator I should be thinking about absolutely oh when it comes to communication a
00:40:06
being a good Storyteller is great and there's a million podcasts out there that can teach somebody that but it
00:40:13
comes down to whether or not you can speak to the person that you are in front of MH and understanding what kind
00:40:21
of person that is and there's a few ways that I identify I I segregate people
00:40:27
into six groups and that's through what do they need from other people so what
00:40:33
kind of things do I need socially and these are
00:40:39
significance acceptance approval intelligence pity and strength
00:40:48
or SL power and in every conversation if you
00:40:54
ask somebody about themselves they're going to come across and reveal one of those things to you so
00:41:01
if I know that you are a significance driven person and I'm selling you on how
00:41:07
smart of an idea this is and how intelligent you are for making this Choice I'm
00:41:13
communicating way opposite in what you need to hear so the moment that I hear
00:41:18
you talk about yourself your accomplishments what you like in life what happened for you this week what's a
00:41:23
great memory that you have every conversation you're going to hear this stuff starting to get revealed so you
00:41:29
hear somebody Within These are conversation or things that you could hear in a conversation pretty quickly
00:41:36
you start talking to somebody and they said yeah I'm actually the CEO of that company I've got 490 people that work
00:41:43
for me and I'm probably going to be making an exit sometime next year so you
00:41:48
hear that there's significance right uh then you then you listen for approval is
00:41:54
this is when you hear people say well I got to go up on stage tomorrow Tom but I suck at public speaking I'm going to I'm
00:41:59
going to really bomb at it I'm just really nervous trying to get you to say no no you don't suck you're great you
00:42:06
did great last time you're going to rock this you got this then you have the acceptance people they'll always use the
00:42:11
terms like we us our and just team so
00:42:17
acceptance people are all about like I'm a member of some kind of group and that'll come across in their
00:42:22
communication so you ask a significance person about a vacation and they say I went down to Miami it was fantastic I
00:42:29
had a great time and I just got back last night you ask an acceptance person they'll say we went down there all of us
00:42:35
went to this thing and we did this so you hear a lot of this language that talks about groups and membership you
00:42:41
get into the intelligence side how often do you hear people go yeah I actually got my MBA from this person oh I did my
00:42:48
Master's thesis on that do you hear this intelligence stuff come out of people and the pity is you can identify a Pity
00:42:56
person pretty well and those are the hardest people to communicate to and the pity person always like if I want to
00:43:03
give you the ideal thing to say to each one of these people the pity person wants to hear I can't believe all the
00:43:11
stuff that you've been through and you've got to this point because I don't think many people would have pity wants
00:43:18
recognition of suffering and finally we have the strength and power person and this isn't
00:43:25
always Biff from Back to the Future so it's can be somebody who's a leader
00:43:30
in a company they want but they want control so significance is do I make a
00:43:35
difference strength and power is do I have control over other people these are
00:43:40
the everybody from like the leader who kind of forces his way into the top to
00:43:45
the guy with the ridiculous jacked up pickup truck that has like the plastic testicles hanging off of the back of it
00:43:52
and once you understand what categorization someone fits into how would you show up in a way that's
00:43:59
effective in communicating with them say for example if I'm talking to a significance person yeah do I
00:44:05
just and and I'm trying to close a deal with them or something do I Pander to their significance is that yeah so
00:44:12
there's a few other types that we teach intelligence people to identify there's the six ways we make decisions and then
00:44:19
six ways that we have values which is our end goal that we want but I want to speak in a way that says this decision
00:44:26
is going to increase your level of significance and I want to compliment them on their level of significance
00:44:32
right before I ask them for something so I could say You Stephen um this is a great podcast you've got millions of
00:44:39
subscribers and it's obvious you make a difference in so many people's lives and you are a significance person so that
00:44:46
would be effective uh for you because I know that you want to make the biggest difference that you can and I want to
00:44:53
speak in a way that a speaks to their needs and lets them know that I'm I am a source for that but B that making this
00:45:01
decision whatever the whatever we're talking about selling a car whatever is going to increase your ability to get
00:45:08
that same need from other people so I think if we did this together I think the number one thing that's going to
00:45:14
happen right away is you're going to be able to impact twice as many people you're going to leave a much deeper
00:45:20
footprint on the world so I'm giving you we're going to double your subscribers
00:45:25
or your listeners but not just that you're going to make a bigger impact and Legacy on the
00:45:30
world so every time I'm thinking about needs always think in terms of
00:45:36
neurotransmitters so if I can compliment someone on their need that's what we need from other people so I'm giving
00:45:42
them like 500 million neurotransmitters being released when they hear this so
00:45:48
it's not just that we are kind of suffering and insecure and all these things that we talked about a
00:45:54
minute ago we're also drug addicts everybody we just need to identify the
00:45:59
drug that that person's addicted to I was thinking about the pen I was
00:46:05
like I was going to ask you to if I'm a if I'm an INT intelligence person and
00:46:11
you had to sell me the pen yeah how would you go about that you know I think
00:46:17
there's a lot of people in the world out there and I think most people just do what other people do and I'm sure you
00:46:24
would agree there's so many idiots out there that just get with the basic thing I'm going to do this basic thing and they don't really go outside the box
00:46:30
very often and every once in a while there's you meet somebody who knows
00:46:37
higher quality things you and you meet somebody who is able to see things at a
00:46:42
level different than other people and I would talk about that intelligence while
00:46:48
subconsciously I'm associating all of that with this this is different it's Unique it's a pencil um but it's it's
00:46:55
not like other pencil it's not the basic run-of-the-mill thing so I want to present that in a way and I want to
00:47:01
start with a negative comment and this is one of the most effective persuasion strategies is to I'm going to negatively
00:47:08
associate something I don't want you to have so let's say uh we're starting our
00:47:14
podcast and I'm I'm afraid Stephen's not going to connect with me and I know that you're significance
00:47:19
driven as we started out imagine if I said something at the very beginning of this podcast and I said Stephen
00:47:26
thanks for having me man and there's so many people out there and when anytime I say something negative in a conversation
00:47:32
I never want to gesture in between you and me I always want to gesture away so this is we're talking about other people
00:47:38
you know there's so many people out there who just don't really give back to the world
00:47:45
and they don't really have an interest in helping other people and it's like every time you meet one of those people
00:47:50
you sit down with them it's like all of them have the same thing in common they can't just stop and connect
00:47:57
when they sit down with somebody so I'm demonizing a trait using
00:48:03
your needs that I don't want you to have like the inability to connect ah okay
00:48:10
interesting and you're consciously pointing off to adjust it to it's others not right until I said the word connect
00:48:17
and then I gestured between you and me back and forth between both of us and that word stop is a very powerful word
00:48:24
in the English language so when I that it's like all of them have the same quality to them they can't just
00:48:30
stop and fully connect with somebody else that's a very subtle thing but I've
00:48:36
used your neurotransmitters I've used your needs and I've I've got you to agree you nodded your head
00:48:42
if agree that those people don't really connect well with other people so that's
00:48:48
how powerful that stuff can be and you can use the same thing in the in reverse and I could I could say a
00:48:55
positive thing I could say you know Stephen what's fascinating to me is I've gone around the world I've met several
00:49:01
entrepreneurs I've met people who are on TV and it's like you think that they are
00:49:06
just dismissive offand before you meet them and it's incredible when you meet these people it's like all of them have
00:49:13
this ability to just tune everything out and just completely connect with
00:49:18
somebody and that would have the same effect and what what's going on there
00:49:24
people we want to be that person because it's positive we want to live up to that expectation
00:49:31
set right so what I've done is I've gotten you to say um as Chris Voss would
00:49:37
put it that's right okay but I've got you to say that about who you are as a person okay so now I'm not changing your
00:49:45
ideas I'm changing your identity changing my Identity or yeah because you've made an agreement about
00:49:51
who you are you've nodded your head okay and if I wanted to take that further
00:49:57
I would I would make an admission first and I'd say you know what I've had social anxiety growing up and I'm
00:50:03
curious what is it that have you always been able to just connect with everybody you talked to or is this something that
00:50:08
you had to work on oh was that a question yeah okay but
00:50:14
I know it's not a question Yeah Yeah question the moment that you ask that that you start to answer that question
00:50:21
you stepped you've made an agreement about who you are as a person so if I wanted somebody to be less close
00:50:27
off I might say you know I've spent my whole life just worried about what other people think and it it to I was 25
00:50:33
before I got to a point where I was able to open up have you always been this open with people or did you have to work
00:50:40
on that so just any answer and no one's going to give you an answer like actually I'm just closed off I'm very
00:50:46
close-minded and that's maybe a 0.1% of people so small agreements and none of
00:50:53
these are designed for people to take word for word word I guess they can but
00:50:58
it's about the idea of getting someone to comment on their own identity who they are as a person is there anything
00:51:05
else as it relates to communication that's especially important it's funny that so many people are interested in
00:51:12
the communication part more so than the listening part they want the flight checklist yeah I was think of Julian
00:51:18
treasure who did the Ted Talk on how to be a great speaker he told me he also did a Ted Talk on how to be a great
00:51:24
listener no no one listened he said everyone wanted to his one on speaking has got like 35 million views but the
00:51:30
one on listening just no one's interested in that but I'm I'm guessing listening plays a pretty critical role
00:51:36
to being a great speaker yeah and listening means I can identify who you
00:51:41
are and what the needs that are driving you and the social needs and the the way that you make decisions is that part of
00:51:47
the observation part yes absolutely just listening to that means that now I have the right words to use
00:51:54
for the communication and the right the right understanding of what motivates you as a person so if I'm a therapist
00:51:59
that makes me a better therapist if I'm a hostage negotiator that makes me a better hostage negotiator and if I'm a
00:52:06
suicide hotline operator that makes me way better at my job because I'm understanding exactly who I'm talking to
00:52:12
and my goal is to talk someone into doing something that they normally would not do you talk about this
00:52:18
elicitation yeah what is elicitation it's a CIA technique right it is it was originally came up with by this guy
00:52:25
named John Nolan and his book is no longer for sale you have to get it on eBay like it's hard to find but the book
00:52:33
is called confidential why isn't it no longer for sale I think that he just kind of pulled it off the shelf I'm not
00:52:39
sure okay so elicitation is about using statements instead of questions and I'll
00:52:45
give you an example let's say you and I walk into Whole Foods which is we're in
00:52:51
New York so it's probably a block away somewhere we walk in there and there's
00:52:57
uh let's say there's a young lady stocking produce and you get in there and I say
00:53:04
all right Stephen your goal is to go figure out how much she makes in 60 seconds and you're not allowed to ask
00:53:10
any questions or be awkward and that's tough right it's it
00:53:17
sounds really tough so if you went over to her and and this is a a
00:53:23
generalization just to get you to understand what elicitation is and said heyy I'm trying to find the
00:53:29
baby carrots and she walks you over there but while you're walking you say I just read this article online it says
00:53:34
all Whole Foods employees just got bumped up to $26 an hour that's fantastic and she turns around goes
00:53:42
what no I I make 17 so now she doesn't feel like she's
00:53:48
been pressed or questioned about how much she makes she's correcting you mhm
00:53:53
or if you let's say you got into an Uber tonight and you said I just read this article that Uber drivers were one of
00:54:01
the top most highly satisfied employees in the country
00:54:07
you're going to get a correction and you're going to be like what where did you read that so
00:54:13
triggering A need to correct the record is one of the easiest ways to use elicitation but it's only one another
00:54:20
one is just making a statement afterwards and saying I bet you had some
00:54:25
interesting exper experiences doing that or I can imagine that was challenging statements are always going to be better
00:54:31
than asking pointed questions because a person feels like they're volunteering information the third layer of that is
00:54:40
disbelief so let's say I wanted to ask if you just got back from vacation and I
00:54:46
didn't want to use any questions we let's say we meet up for dinner or something and I said see you look like
00:54:53
you just got back from a vacation that's a statement and you're like no actually I've been doing this this this
00:54:59
and this so now you've you've given me more than if I just asked if you were on vacation MH and I said wow that had to
00:55:07
be interesting I I can't imagine that there's got to be a lot of stuff going on there and you start talking more and
00:55:13
more and more and then like that sounds great there was no challenges to that
00:55:19
entire trip I love when everything is 100% Flawless and you're like no actually and then you start going into
00:55:26
that and I'm like no way then now we have disbelief that comes in and I haven't asked a single question yet so
00:55:33
that's one thing that I challenge everybody that I train to get really good at is that elicitation piece how
00:55:38
many layers can I get into a person or a conversation just using these statements
00:55:46
and that's why I wrote a there's a whole chapter about it in in this book here
00:55:51
but that elicitation is powerful because we're not being asked questions
00:55:56
so our brain doesn't set off little security alarms and this is how Soviet
00:56:01
spies would get information from a 19-year-old US Navy sailor uh in the early days of the Cold
00:56:09
War they s ship would pull into Thailand or submarine would pull into Thailand or
00:56:14
Singapore and a Russian would go up and these Sailors would be drinking at the bar Russian would sit there he's got a a
00:56:21
loha shirt on or something and strike up a conversation they say
00:56:27
I know that the the German submarines could outrun you because their propellers are 22 and all of your
00:56:32
submarine propellers are 18 fet in diameter and the Sailor slightly drunk turns around and say no they're not and
00:56:39
starts giving up all this information just to correct the record and that's all they did back then was just
00:56:45
correcting the record I'm triggering this need to offer some kind of Correction to information that's inaccurate and even with business
00:56:54
intelligence let's say the a company's moving and they have to get business intelligence somebody at that company
00:56:59
will get approached at a bar and somebody will say yeah I heard you guys are moving between March and
00:57:05
April and they'll get corrected in they say no it's actually February but we're not really supposed to talk about it
00:57:10
it's like there's no way you're going to move in February it's too cold and the interest rates are up too high there's no possible way that the CEO would ever
00:57:17
do that it's like yeah and then you're going you're going to get more information out because of the disbelief
00:57:23
so that was correcting the record a second technique called bracketing where I'm giving you a series like between
00:57:29
March and may or between 39 and 59 and the third is the disbelief that starts
00:57:36
getting this information out of people so if you want to think about like how do I start a conversation or continue
00:57:42
one using elicitation think of the words so and then do a recap so you've been
00:57:48
doing this for three years or so this is not the best job but it's getting things done for you or I bet so I bet that was
00:57:56
I bet there were still some challenges there I bet you overcame a whole lot to get to this point so or I bet is the
00:58:02
best way to do that and when okay so if I say I bet you hate that coffee yeah
00:58:08
that that's a statement but you're gonna Endeavor to correct the record either way yeah and if you do hate the coffee
00:58:16
you'll say yeah like even you saying yes I do kind of hate it is offering up
00:58:21
information yeah okay interesting and you could even go go on with that like I
00:58:28
bet you hate that coffee and somebody says yeah well I do kind of hate it like I can imagine you're the kind of person who likes coffee a very specific way
00:58:35
well yeah here's how I like it a lot and say that's extremely
00:58:41
interesting no creamer no sugar and I'm just recapping so why is that better
00:58:47
than me just going how' you prefer your coffee well if we're just talking about coffee it's
00:58:53
not sensitive information so I wouldn't I wouldn't say that was better it's for sensitive information when you're trying
00:58:58
to not get their guard up yeah so the rule of thumb is the more sensitive the information is that you need the less
00:59:04
questions you need to be asking and is that what I mean that's does correlate to kind of like how I've uh the
00:59:11
information that the spies I've interviewed have given me like Andrew Bustamante and Mike Baker they've both
00:59:16
said that much of the game was like hearing someone out and just letting them talk and talk and talk and talk
00:59:23
yeah but not being too pushy yeah and that's that's the best way to not be pushy is to use the elicitation stuff
00:59:30
perception context permission the PCP model is a way of understanding how to
00:59:35
get someone to do something from joining a cult to buying an item yeah so the PCP
00:59:42
model looks like it's three steps but it's I I want you to view it as kind of
00:59:47
dominoes so one step starts the progress of coming down the other and once that comes down the next Domino starts going
00:59:54
down m so if I change your perception about something then I change the context that
01:00:01
you're viewing that in which changes the way that you feel permission to do it so I'll give you an example would you want
01:00:07
a weird example or a boring one we we'll go with let's go with weird Okay so
01:00:13
let's go with uh an attorney in Washington state
01:00:20
was charged with assault of a woman
01:00:26
using hypnosis and he would have her get naked in his
01:00:32
office which is something she would not normally do and the attorney was studying this
01:00:39
hypnosis and stuff like that he wasn't I don't as as far as I know he was not even good but he would hypnotize her and then
01:00:46
tell her at the end of the day you come home from work and this is just like that
01:00:52
time I want you to picture yourself it's the end of the day you're coming home from work you drop your keys in the bowl
01:00:59
you make your way to the bathroom you turn on a hot shower and now you're here getting ready to get into that shower so
01:01:06
he's changed her perception of where she is he changed the context of neither one
01:01:11
of you or me right now would like get naked on a podcast but both of us are going to later tonight when we go to
01:01:17
shower so but because that's a different context so he modified the context which
01:01:23
gave her permission to remove clothing or do something that we otherwise
01:01:28
wouldn't do in a social setting one of the ways I studied this
01:01:34
and it was fascinating is cult recruiters I spent a a long time well
01:01:40
six weeks working with these cult recruiters and I was back and forth between cult recruiters and door-to-door
01:01:46
salespeople and these are hard-hit people man that it's a hard job door to-door
01:01:51
sales but they talk people into doing things they probably
01:01:56
wouldn't otherwise have done M uh installing a $95,000 solar system on their roof or
01:02:05
buying a vacuum cleaner or joining a cult that's probably harmful but all of them started off the
01:02:12
conversation by changing the perception of what's going on so instead of me saying hey let me talk to you about this
01:02:19
thing that's from a like a needy perspective they come out with a survey and they say it's it's an
01:02:26
anonymous survey which automatically makes the people more open so it's an
01:02:32
anonymous survey I've changed permission so now the context has shifted slightly
01:02:38
and if I could change your perception again would you rather be in a group of people who feel like family or people
01:02:44
who are related to you so I start asking all these little questions about how would you rather lived your life in a
01:02:51
way that's like just kind of nudging you down into this cult mindset of like do
01:02:56
you want to be around people that enjoy your company like those kind of questions so more perception changes now
01:03:03
the context shifts to where I've just made 25 agreements about who I am as a
01:03:09
human being so now my my context is way off which shifts my permission it's like I
01:03:16
have permission to do this because that's the kind of person I've just agreed to be and that's who I've said that I am I have to do this because
01:03:23
that's cognitive dissonance like crazy and one thing I teach you about any persuasion whether you're doing a scop
01:03:28
on an entire country or you're just manipulating one person or doing therapy
01:03:34
on one person your main weapon as a person who is persuasive or influential
01:03:41
is cognitive dissonance which is I'm getting you to be uncomfortable because
01:03:47
I'm get the way that I've got you to see the world doesn't match up with what you're doing so the fast easiest thing
01:03:53
for you to change is what you're doing instead of changing your mind about something or calling yourself dumb I
01:03:58
just get you to do something different and that's weaponized cognitive dissonance we're seeing a lot of that
01:04:04
with the extreme left extreme right Politics on both both of those extremes
01:04:09
once I get a person to make even one or two or three statements about their identity I have drastically
01:04:17
altered how they're going to behave in the future uh Robert chalini who wrote influence and
01:04:24
persuasion wonderful human being wrote about this where a few
01:04:31
weeks before they go ask somebody to put a giant ugly sign in their yard that says drive safe huge ugly sign two weeks
01:04:40
before that they go back door to door and say do you support safe driving yes or no who's going to say no it's like 91%
01:04:48
said yeah yeah I support safe driving they said good will you put this tiny sticker in your front window tiny little
01:04:55
sticker and just to let us know that you're supporting safe driving that's all we all we ask you to do two weeks
01:05:02
later they come back to the neighborhood like 89% of people are sticking these
01:05:08
signs in their yard the other neighborhood they did the test on didn't have this little survey do you support
01:05:13
safe driving first and it was like 6% stuck the sign in their yard so making
01:05:20
one agreement about who I am and then taking action on it so if I can get you to take AC ction on something not in
01:05:26
just between you and me now I got you to put a sticker on your window I got you
01:05:32
to do something that alters the way other people see you so if I can get you to make something that I've got you to
01:05:39
believe public I get you to make a Twitter post I get you to make a Facebook post now I've captured identity
01:05:46
so most persuasion and influence training in the world is about capturing ideas identity is where you truly get to
01:05:53
change Behavior because I'm getting you to agree that you are a certain type of person before I want you to do
01:05:59
anything interesting it explains a lot about politics in fact you know what we what
01:06:06
we see go on in the election cycles and also just how a a political party political group can slowly
01:06:13
drift together to a position that objectively go blood L that's crazy yeah
01:06:21
you know because they kind of slowly they say I'm this party I signed up to this this particular political party and
01:06:27
then slowly just with like creep of beliefs you end up over 10 years all of
01:06:32
you believing in thinking something is okay yeah it's interesting just because
01:06:37
you made an agreement I guess in part that explains some of the wars as well like there's an element here which can
01:06:44
be can explain things like Nazi Germany yeah and how a civilization can go from
01:06:50
being relatively normal to doing really horrific barbaric things to people yeah
01:06:56
if you just going back to the milgrim experiment right away I got you to say do you fully volunteer to participate in
01:07:03
this would you accept the role of teacher would you sit down in this chair would you shock him with this low
01:07:10
voltage I've got you to agree that I'm the kind of person that's willing to shock someone for an experiment within
01:07:16
the first two minutes MH and they don't talk about that they they kind of tend to say the whole experiment is about
01:07:22
Authority but I don't think it's all authority I think a lot of it is novelty and they don't talk about that ever in
01:07:29
the these Recaps of the study but if you volunteer for that experiment you're
01:07:34
driving on a campus youve probably not been on going into a building you've never been to meeting a guy in a lab
01:07:40
coat that you've never met and another guy you've never met in a room that you've never met sat in front of a machine you've never seen reading a quiz
01:07:46
that you've never read in your entire life all of these things brand new the
01:07:52
number one thing that generates focus in the Alan brain this is dog you name it
01:07:59
is novelty so our ancestors they're walking past a bush every day of their life and
01:08:07
one day Sun's about to set and a stick snaps behind that bush that's novelty
01:08:13
that's an unexpected piece of information new information or is it unexpected yeah what's your definition
01:08:18
of novelty here novelty is my brain is expecting certain things to happen I'm
01:08:24
going to walk past this bush just like I've done before I have kind of a script for running things and something happens
01:08:30
that breaks that script of what I am predicting about the world does that make sense yeah any kind of novelty
01:08:37
generates Focus so the four things that we can manipulate inside of a human brain uh spells out the word fate so the
01:08:46
four ways to manipulate or influence a mammal and this is human dog you name it
01:08:55
is through Focus Authority tribe and
01:09:02
emotion those are the four things that a dog could feel if you're looking at a dog training video you're
01:09:09
watching let's say you're binge watching three seasons of dog whisperer with Caesar Milan you're seeing him redirect
01:09:15
Focus establish Authority show contact with the tribe and praise the dog when
01:09:21
the dog's doing well Focus Authority tribe and emotion that's how we train
01:09:26
animals it's also how an infomercial gets you to buy something they grab your
01:09:31
focus they show you here's a a million people who've already bought it so far they all have these five-star
01:09:38
reviews everybody in your neighborhood's doing it or all these people across the United States are doing it they're getting success and all of their friends
01:09:45
love them because of that success now we get emotion and they show it visually they don't just say it they're showing
01:09:51
this visual images to show the mammal brain the f Focus Authority tribe and emotion that spells fate I was thinking
01:09:58
about a lot of like um fizzy drink ads in the Su in the sunshine in the summer
01:10:04
and you see you know like the you hear the sound like as they like break it open there's people there I guess that's
01:10:10
the tribe having a great time and I was just struggling with the authority part
01:10:15
in that context of those ads you see for like a fizzy drink brand I think the authority would be the on screen
01:10:21
presence or brand recognition okay or could be a celebrity or something yeah
01:10:27
and this is coming from a tribal leader as if our ancestors didn't listen to a tribal leader you don't live very long
01:10:35
in your work you talk about how to win an argument and when I say win an argument I don't really mean an argument I mean more like you know me and my
01:10:41
girlfriend are having a conversation yeah and I want to get to a good resolution what are the things I should
01:10:48
definitely not do calling out little points that any kind of in correct
01:10:55
information we wait until the end we save it okay so if I hear if I'm in an argument with someone and they're
01:11:01
calling me out for doing something I clearly didn't do I'll wait I want to wait why because they get diffused now
01:11:08
we want them to get that out first but right away as soon as possible in any argument like this I want to
01:11:15
establish like do we have a similar Common Ground
01:11:20
do we have what common ground do we share and do we want a similar outcome and I might even ask that question be
01:11:26
like really quick do we both want the same thing from from this discussion I would never call it an
01:11:33
argument so one the moment that we redirect on I this is the outcome I want instead
01:11:39
of I need to win an argument because when we're in a fight we tend to think I intellectually need to conquer this
01:11:46
conversation and I need to be right and if I can be right that means I was right
01:11:53
not winning an argument doesn't mean you were right before before or right after but it's like what is the ideal outcome
01:11:59
for both of us and I would stop in a business negotiation or whatever what's ideal for both of us we both want this
01:12:05
same thing and the ideal outcome for you is this the ideal outcome for me is this
01:12:10
and I think there's some Middle Ground here and it would be the same thing in a relationship if anything started
01:12:16
spinning out of control the first thing I'm going to think is I'm going to hear what's not being said so if my wife
01:12:26
was saying you don't even need to call me you don't call me anyway when you're on these business trips I never get phone
01:12:32
calls do you think she is worried that her phone isn't ringing or she's worried that she's not being appreciated and and
01:12:40
not feeling loved so men especially will will tend to say
01:12:47
well let's let's open these facts really quick pull your phone out I'm going to show you some Miss calls right now it's
01:12:52
not about the calls I need to hear what's underneath the statements that someone is saying you need to hear
01:12:58
between the lines just like a behavior profiler so what is the what's the emotion that's starting here is it anger
01:13:06
is it loneliness is it feeling unappreciated I need to understand what the emotion is behind what someone's
01:13:12
saying and address that and never address exactly what people are saying
01:13:17
to try to win an argument I just posted a video on YouTube U three days ago of
01:13:24
it was called the n narcissist off switch and it was how to disarm any
01:13:30
narcissist and there were these very specific methods but the the biggest
01:13:35
method of all was to always think about what they're are using to get out of you
01:13:41
so if I'm in an argument is someone using fear obligation or guilt and that
01:13:47
acronym spells fog so am I going to get in trouble or can I recognize when somebody is using
01:13:55
fear obligation and guilt and if someone is doing any of those things I want to call it out in a non-confrontational way
01:14:03
so let's say um you give me some line about like if you don't do this I'm going to have to
01:14:08
work 19 hours next week so it's never about the hours and it's now it's guilt
01:14:14
right M I could say Stephen it maybe you didn't mean to but it
01:14:20
sounded like you wanted me to feel guilty about me working next week and I know know that you're a good person I
01:14:26
don't think you meant it that way so I will absolutely call out any fear obligation or guilt always but I'll call
01:14:33
it out in a way that says maybe you didn't mean this but it sounded like this is what you were saying right here
01:14:40
and I always want to use that word where it's non-confrontational and I want to give them an out so in interrogation
01:14:47
training we always call this the golden bridge in The Art of War they say give your opponent a golden bridge on which
01:14:54
they can can Retreat mhm so they can Retreat across this golden bridge and trap them in a corner yeah so we give
01:15:01
them an out that's beautiful so maybe you didn't mean this and I always want to think about going back to that what
01:15:07
is the hidden feeling or fear that's behind what they're saying they're scared of something they're scared of
01:15:14
losing a deal they're scared of losing money they're scared of looking a certain way they're scared of what the
01:15:20
people in the room are going to think so where is the hidden fear in someone's argument any anytime you're in an
01:15:25
argument there is a level of concealed fear and just 30 40 seconds you can find
01:15:32
that and a lot of people teach this as a tactic but just stopping and looking at
01:15:38
a person after they do that in an argument is so incredibly powerful just
01:15:43
stopping and looking at them yeah so like say you made that statement to me about I'm G to have to work 19 hours
01:15:49
next week the moment that I stop it lessens the power
01:15:55
of that statement because I'm not stopping as a tactic I'm choosing to stop because I want to process what you
01:16:01
are saying and that helps people to do that because it feels less awkward as if I'm doing a tactic I'm doing that thing
01:16:09
but I'm just pausing because I'm going to actually reflect on what you just said and I'm going to use that time for
01:16:14
just a minute I might look away I might as soon as you're done talking I might
01:16:21
say and I might just take a moment and say Stephen it's maybe I heard this
01:16:28
wrong and go right into that so that long pause is so effective in conversation especially when it's
01:16:33
meaningful and it's not a tactic what is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have as it
01:16:40
especially as it relates to what most people ask you about and they're most interested in well what is one thing
01:16:45
that no one's ever asked you on a podcast what is one thing no one's ever ask me yeah people don't really ask me stuff
01:16:52
well who are you and what is your mission oh you're doing something on me I'm not
01:16:57
doing something unless you were doing something to me I would love to know and why don't you answer that and
01:17:04
I'll break down the hidden statements that you're going to reveal about your personality okay uh who am I
01:17:13
uh uh I'm a podcaster I'm an entrepreneur I'm an investor I'm a
01:17:20
boyfriend and what's my mission H it's to pursue my potential and to
01:17:27
follow my curiosity and to see what happens all right yeah
01:17:34
so that's a great answer but you went deeply into who you are as a person so
01:17:39
the first thing you did is look up and to your right yeah then you looked up to your left then up into the center so
01:17:45
that when your eyes are moving in multiple directions is called a trans derivational search so I'm looking in
01:17:50
different file cabinets that are inside my head yeah and then then you talked about some of the labels that you wore
01:17:57
yeah and podcaster was first but you mentioned boyfriend so I know what's important to you so like the podcast you
01:18:04
don't say I'm a TV star but most people would identify you as as a TV star but
01:18:09
it wasn't important to you yeah it's not important to me right yeah so you could hear what's important to people
01:18:15
interesting and then the mission was not about other people it was about like how
01:18:20
can I make myself better you may be doing that to enrich other people's Liv but you didn't say I have a podcast so I
01:18:28
can benefit 10 million are you about to hit 10 million yeah it's interesting because
01:18:33
I actually my brain like it was right there to say that and then I thought
01:18:39
it's just not the nature of the truth like the truth is I started this in my
01:18:44
bedroom and I always think about the fact that when I did it for three years no one was listening so my mission when
01:18:49
I was doing it was genuinely because I really loved it yeah it wasn't like I'm going to change the world and it's so
01:18:55
tempting sometimes to like add that on like I want to change the world and I just don't I don't believe that's why
01:19:01
most people start things and continue when no one's listening yeah I think it's it's usually something more selfish
01:19:07
does that make sense yeah you started something and you were passionate about the thing itself enjoyed the thing yeah
01:19:14
yeah yeah I love that that was a
01:19:19
licitation oh okay what you just did then well three I think I did three layers okay
01:19:25
but it's very very genuine and a lot of people get to the subscriber thing I'm I
01:19:31
think I'll hit a million in a week or two which is a huge milestone for me I never thought I would have a million
01:19:38
but that was never important on your main channel on uh the behavior panel
01:19:44
it's me and three other Behavior profilers ah yes that's incredible yeah it's amazing licitation that was a
01:19:52
elicitation good job so we just record zooms don't edit them
01:20:00
at all I've seen it I know I'm I was just trying to meiss it so
01:20:05
sloppy so you sorry you were doing like a read of me you said I said podcaster I said entrepreneur I said invester and
01:20:11
then I said I do it to like I think I said um so your gos curiosity and then I
01:20:18
was the other one it was like it was about my potential that's what I think about a lot like pursue my potential and
01:20:23
follow my curiosity yeah see what happens so potential curiosity
01:20:28
what would I see there so I'm a podcaster I did this for passion I want my I want to fulfill my potential am I
01:20:34
seeing I'm not seeing acceptance I'm not seeing that you need approval from me to do anything so it's
01:20:41
about your personal level of significance like do I make a difference but not to other people but you still
01:20:48
want people to acknowledge that you are Reaching Your Potential you are doing what you say you're going to do you're
01:20:53
relying on your girlfriend so we're talking about a little bit of a group but all of what you're saying is about
01:20:59
significance so when I say like you make a tremendous difference in people's lives and you're really enriching other
01:21:04
people you're doing exactly what you're born to do it hits harder than if I said lots of
01:21:13
people appreciate you and you're in so many great Social Circles and you're like the center of attention in room
01:21:20
yeah see that little Grimace yeah but other people who are like the more
01:21:26
approval group focused people when I say like I can tell like you're the center of all your groups of friends and everybody comes to you for advice you
01:21:33
seem like one of those people which is an elicitation statement by itself as well so you can tell that if I used
01:21:42
anything that didn't fit your psychology it feels weird yeah and if a salesperson's doing that they do it by
01:21:49
accident and they say oh this is a numbers game because I don't I I use
01:21:54
this script that I have I kind of follow this script pretty Loosely and I close of 41% or whatever it
01:22:01
is in reality if you changed how you communicate based on the sub parts of
01:22:08
that person's psychology which are on public display and they're private thoughts but they're very public if you
01:22:14
know how to listen to what people are saying and understand what people are saying you can put that out and it
01:22:19
changes how you speak it changes how you communicate how you close a sale how you get somebody to do something Everything
01:22:26
Changes the moment you're able to profile a human being and understand who they are a little bit deeper and if you
01:22:32
know the needs if I know that your need is significance I
01:22:37
automatically know what one of your fears and some of your biggest fears are feeling insignificant feeling like you
01:22:44
could have made a difference but you didn't make any difference like you didn't leave any footprint in the world like you didn't fulfill what you meant
01:22:50
what you wanted to and any any need that I can identify automatically reveals some fears and if
01:22:58
I understand fears I can also lead behavior that way as well I was thinking through the context
01:23:05
of being like a CEO or manager of teams um this is I guess this is why
01:23:12
it's so important to know the different types of people you have in your teams and also I used to work on phones doing
01:23:18
Telly sales and you did yes for many years I when I was 16 worked at Everest
01:23:25
in Plymouth which was uh windows and doors and conservatories and artificial grass and then when I went to Manchester
01:23:31
when I was a little bit older for University before dropping out I um worked at Swinton car insurance I worked
01:23:38
at a bunch of places I worked at Fusion studi selling like uh photography vouchers I did uh Facebook ad sales on
01:23:45
the phone back in the day wow lots of lots of uh Telly sales experience and I
01:23:51
was just wondering because in those moments you call someone out the blue or they call you you asking for car insurance and you don't have a big
01:23:57
window of time necessarily to figure out what kind of person they are not at all so how do you go about then you go back
01:24:04
to the Fate model so one of the sales teams I recently
01:24:09
trained and I'm not on a confidentiality agreement but one of the things when they call people up out of the blue is
01:24:16
they pretend like their dog just knocked a drink over on their computer right as that person answers the phone and
01:24:22
they're like oh my God I'm so sorry hold on one second and they're cleaning this up and they're explaining like we just
01:24:28
got this new dog she knocked this coffee over I'm really sorry person doesn't even know who they are yet but they so
01:24:34
novel and interesting that they stay on the phone 70% longer just because of the
01:24:40
spilled coffee and the person saying I'm so sorry this is embarrassing making this admission of I'm a little bit
01:24:45
embarrassed on the phone they stay on the phone longer because novelty captured that mamalian
01:24:51
Focus interesting and then if they're on the phone a little bit longer you can get to know them a little bit better and
01:24:57
understand what kind of person they are and better adjust to yeah make sense and
01:25:02
then when you're saying I'm so sorry this is really embarrassing the other person most people are going to be like no it's fine it's fine I don't even know
01:25:08
who you are yeah we haven't even got to know each other yet is there something that you see most
01:25:14
frequent that's deficient in sales pitches when you're training sales people is there like one particular thing that's typically most
01:25:21
deficient that they're not doing there's a few okay but slowness is a big one
01:25:28
Authority is lacking and confidence in in what that person is selling and going off of a script and
01:25:37
this is the biggest one any kind of script automatically tells our brain so
01:25:43
like when's the last time you got you get telemarketer calls to your phone every once in a while once in a while
01:25:48
yeah yeah I do too and I'll answer it and the moment that it sounds like
01:25:53
somebody going oh hi Mr Hughes this is blank from blank company my brain knows
01:26:01
what a sales call sounds like and instantly checks out of the conversation instantaneously even if I didn't want to
01:26:08
do it my brain's already starting to shut this guy out of my life because it sounds like everything else I've ever
01:26:14
heard so since our brain is so good at making apps I know because of just
01:26:21
knowing Neuroscience if I'm calling and I sound like a salesperson or I sound
01:26:26
like something you've heard before you're done you're going to get off the phone as fast as possible if something
01:26:32
happens that makes you think whoa this is different your brain is going to pay more attention and I don't mean knocking
01:26:38
a Starbucks over across your laptop I mean how can I make my sales calls not
01:26:43
sound like every other call that exists I was victim of a phone call that was
01:26:50
clearly listening to your work because the guy called me and said hi this is a sales call and you can hang
01:26:57
up now if you're not interested but if you are willing to hear me out I just want 30 seconds and the fact that they
01:27:04
offered me the opportunity to hang up I for some reason appreciated it and I gave them the time and I remember I was
01:27:11
like really busy I was on my way to a podcast recording and just the fact that he' gone you can hang up now this just gonna be honest this is a sales call
01:27:16
yeah he gave you autonomy so I was like okay what are you
01:27:21
selling then he told me about some social media soft or whatever but I just thought it was really smart cuz you're
01:27:26
right within seconds I'm trying to figure out if this is like all the others yeah and we I guess we can do the
01:27:32
same in our emails in fact the co CEO and COO of my media company that I hired
01:27:38
sent me an email in the first line of the email they didn't even she's listening now Cristiana and Georgie they
01:27:44
didn't even like introduce themselves they said um like straight to the point no
01:27:51
habituation filter and it's interesting it's an interesting open align because the word habituation
01:27:57
filter is something I talk about in my book so they' kind of like tickled my ego a little bit as well I think because
01:28:03
it says I've read your book yeah and they went straight to the point and it took cut me off guard and and got more
01:28:09
focused of course yeah they have the job now they work here so and even the subject line was like oh that was their
01:28:15
introduction email to you yeah that was the first ever email yeah that's brilliant cuz it's I don't think people
01:28:21
realize this unless you've been in a situation where you're like like working in recruitment looking at thousands of emails but we when I used to really run
01:28:29
the recruitment inbox because I'm just obsessed with the recruitment we have we have 35,000 email emails in there and
01:28:35
I'm going through there at speed and I'm looking for what I would call exclusionary
01:28:42
factors and inclusionary factors what I mean by that is factors to immediately exclude this email yeah and factors to
01:28:49
immediately include this email within three seconds to read later to read later
01:28:55
read later or just it another and the exclusionary is they're all just surface things that you typically get from
01:29:01
people who typically do a certain thing and that's I mean that's also why I think about marketing newsletters if the
01:29:08
newsletter looks designed the studies show the open rate the retention rate the click-through rate is significantly
01:29:14
worse if it's a beautifully designed email because people see it as a sales email yeah the emails you get every day
01:29:20
that are important are not designed yeah and so we we newsletter we
01:29:25
again the email newsletter provider was saying oh you can use all these templates but then we're like no no if
01:29:31
we use a template no one reads the thing which is again counterintuitive but it's the same psychology right it is like
01:29:37
I've increased our our open rate with emails by not capitalizing the first
01:29:43
word of the subject line because it looks like it's overly edited and we've
01:29:50
switched from here's a list of 13 uh ways that we might have failed in
01:29:57
2013 with this ad campaign or whatever or this uh marketing campaign and I just
01:30:02
Chang the subject line to this sucked and it just it did so much better
01:30:08
because it looks like something a friend would send you it looks like something you'd get from a relative or
01:30:15
something and that's that habituation filter at play just trying to phase out things that
01:30:22
are I like that not novel I think I read it I read I was reading studies about habituation and how we just habituate to
01:30:28
things and I was looking into um how that happens in both what we see but also in what we hear so the studies were
01:30:36
talking about if you say a word like Father father father father father father father father eventually it's just becomes a sound in your head yeah
01:30:42
because your brain is taking away cognitive resource it's no longer thinking about the meaning and it's just hearing the sound but then there's other
01:30:49
words that habituate slower like warning warning warning warning warning warning warning warning because those words are
01:30:55
like emotional and anyway um I think a lot about it in the context of content creation Mr Beast is the Great Master
01:31:02
of beating your habituation filter like with how he starts his videos yeah
01:31:08
screaming in your face like yeah 500 people in that Circle million pounds but I think he he defeats the habituation
01:31:14
filter for a certain type of viewer because I I see any video that
01:31:20
looks like that I'm off within the first second I'm done done because they all look the same now yeah that's an
01:31:27
interesting observation so I think the type of viewer is very important because like during this video when people are
01:31:34
watching this conversation you're not going to have 10 seconds of b-roll of people walking in slow motion through an
01:31:40
airport there's not going to be you're not overdesigning stuff and the people who listen to this show are way
01:31:47
different than the people who are watching Mr Beast drop a Ferrari onto a a mattress m and blow it up they're very
01:31:56
very different so I think the habituation filters change based on what we consume and what we appreciate
01:32:03
interesting because we're all making we're all doing sort of quick prejudices about everything so shortcuts yeah yeah
01:32:11
I'm going to develop as many shortcuts as I can to save cognitive load brain
01:32:17
power at my company flight Studio which is part of my bigger company flight group we're constantly looking for ways
01:32:22
to build deeper connection with our audiences whether that's a new show a product or a project it's why I launched
01:32:29
the conversation cards I've relied on Shopify before who's a sponsor of today's podcast and I'll be using them
01:32:34
again for the next big launch which we'll hear about soon and I use them because of how easy it is to set up an online store that reaches all of you no
01:32:41
matter where you are in the world with Shopify the usual pain points of launching products online Disappear
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Completely no matter the size of your business Shopify has everything you need to make your business go to the next
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level and better connect with your customers all over the world to say thank you to all of you for listening to my show we're giving you a trial which
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is just $1 a month you can sign up by going to shopify.com
01:33:05
Bartlet that's shopify.com Bartlet or find the link in the description
01:33:12
below what is the the most popular thing people come to you and talk to you about and ask you that we haven't talked about
01:33:19
today I think one of the most common in there is
01:33:24
how can I change my discipline that's the number one thing that I get from people how do I level up discipline on
01:33:31
this Authority checklist and getting to a point where they're
01:33:36
modifying their discipline changes their confidence because I always talk about discipline is kind of the gateway drug
01:33:42
to everything else in authority and it's the gateway to composure for sure but
01:33:49
getting your discipline modified is one of the the fastest ways to make everything else change and how do I fix
01:33:57
my discipline if I'm an ill disciplined person understanding what discipline is
01:34:02
is the most critical element and I Define this differently than most people
01:34:07
so I Define discipline as your ability to prioritize the needs
01:34:13
of your future self ahead of your own present self and
01:34:19
that's it that's all the discipline is I'm prioritizing the needs of future me
01:34:25
you're trying to think of a I was think no I was thinking of two scenarios the scenario one is I go home
01:34:32
tonight right because I go to sleep I get to bed early and there's this other thing I'm thinking about doing after
01:34:37
this which is going to the gym yeah and I'm like I was just as you're saying that I was thinking both help future me
01:34:43
yeah I was PR I was like which one is disciplined I think they would both be discipline okay
01:34:49
so the moment that we start understanding that if I could just make
01:34:54
decisions that are prioritizing future me then we go back to where am I getting my dopamine from and I want past tense
01:35:02
me to be a source of dopamine for present tense me because most of us look
01:35:09
back with regret I shouldn't have drank that much I shouldn't have mouthed off at the family reunion you know whatever
01:35:15
it is I shouldn't have overslept if I can start looking
01:35:20
backwards with gratitude that's the fastest way to make discipline dopamine
01:35:25
generating so the tricks are to start small so like when I go to bed at night
01:35:31
I will pop open the little curig uh coffee thing and stick the thing in there put a cup under there
01:35:38
everything's like ready to go so when I wake up in the morning I just go bam and everything's ready I'll get my clothes
01:35:43
out everything kind of lined up ready to put on for the next day so I'm I'm lowering the threshold of how much
01:35:49
attention I'm spending so I'm going to set my life up in everying single way that I possibly can is if I were a
01:35:55
butler for future me so when I wake up in the morning all this stuff set out my
01:36:01
laundries laid out my checklist for what I need to do to the uh for the day all
01:36:06
the stuff I'm got to get on a plane is all laid out by the back door I can grab it and jump in the car everything that I
01:36:12
could possibly do to make my future self go oh man that's awesome and Look Backwards with gratitude I'm going to do
01:36:19
it I'll take a $100 biller maybe a few hundred s every spring or summer and
01:36:26
I'll stick them in the a jacket pocket that I'm not going to use until the winter and I'll forget about it and in
01:36:32
the winter I'm I'm looking and now I become a source of dopamine past tense me is becoming a source of dopamine for
01:36:39
present me that forces me to look in the future along with like printing that old
01:36:45
me photo and putting it all over the house but everything that I can possibly
01:36:50
do to make myself look backwards with gratitude is what I'm going to start
01:36:55
doing but you have to start small it's like just going overboard is going to be
01:37:00
crazy and even writing a little Post-It note to yourself and sticking it in a
01:37:06
jacket or a maybe a dress shoe that you're not going to wear for a few months it means so much to find that and
01:37:14
it's it's from you it's not from a loved one you did it so you're looking backwards with like wow that's amazing
01:37:21
so you're now getting in love and sending gratitude backwards which automatically means that what's going
01:37:27
forwards is concern and Care the moment I'm always looking back with gratitude
01:37:34
the concern is always going forward in the future and the concern for present
01:37:39
goes away and I'm gonna I'm going to push that concern to the right out in the future people struggle even with the
01:37:46
small things right like getting because yeah it's funny because I watched a video last night about a lady that went
01:37:52
to YouTube and started her like journey of weight loss and whatever and she was very I think she was 400 pounds or
01:37:59
something and she was trying to get down and in the video you what some people will know who I'm referring to over the
01:38:05
space of a year or two years she actually just gains weight so she gets to I think five 500 pound or something
01:38:11
and as I was watching it you're watching someone who's saying I want to change my
01:38:17
life but then is coming on every day and saying I've just gained three pounds I've just gained another three pounds and there's almost this this like
01:38:24
visible dissonance that you're observing between this person saying they want to change their life but clearly the
01:38:29
actions that they're then taking are like are different to that and many people can relate to that feeling of I
01:38:36
want to be this person I mean we're coming up to like we for anyone that doesn't know we're recording this in December so New Year's resolutions
01:38:41
around the corner everyone's going to say to themselves who they want to become but it's easier said than done I think what seven8 8% 9% of New Year's
01:38:49
resolutions will stick yeah so is is it just a case of stuff starting small or
01:38:54
is there any other tricks to discipline that you can offer it's starting small and realizing that all of our lives are
01:39:01
about habits not goals but what are the habits that make my goal a byproduct everything is about byproducts in your
01:39:08
whole life whether you know it or not so instead of setting goals set like the byproduct what are the byproducts I want
01:39:14
to have for this year and then what are the habits that make that up so what the
01:39:19
big mistake most people make is they see somebody like you you go to the gym very
01:39:25
often you probably eat really clean um I know you don't drink alcohol cuz I brought you a flask and gave it to your
01:39:32
team but uh Bost they took it they did yeah
01:39:38
so somebody who doesn't live a very disciplined life would look at you and say God I want to be like Stephen he's
01:39:44
got all this discipline going to the gym but they don't understand that you going to the gym isn't discipline it's a
01:39:50
habit so you're not like forcing yourself to go do something you're doing something that's a habit for you the
01:39:57
discipline only is necessary you only need like a teaspoon of it at the very beginning to get this habit started so
01:40:04
start micro habits first and then bigger habits so the discipline is not
01:40:09
something that you should be seeing if you're seeing someone eat healthy and go to the gym do all the stuff you want to do those are habits and that person
01:40:17
you're you're not seeing a discipline at work right there you're seeing a habit
01:40:22
the discipline was just at the beginning and I think if more people knew that that you're just exercising a little
01:40:28
discipline at the very beginning and then it's just that's just what you do it's like somebody who sees someone
01:40:35
brushing their teeth every day like wow that's so much discipline it's just what we do it's a habit there's a interesting
01:40:42
part of this um like habit equation you could say or like discipline equation which
01:40:48
is the why part which is like why does this matter to you and is it important to get really
01:40:57
clear on why this thing matters to you whether it's the gym or like because when I I was playing around with this
01:41:02
discipline equation idea from my last book and the kind of conclusion I landed at was that to be disciplined you have
01:41:09
to understand the reason why something matters to you you can say that in other words yeah um plus
01:41:16
the psychological reinforcement you get from the pursuit of the thing minus the
01:41:22
you could say the psychological or perceived cost of the pursuit of the thing so in the context of brushing your teeth I think I
01:41:29
know why it matters right because if I don't then I have to go to the dentist my teeth fall out I look ugly whatever
01:41:34
it might be yeah the is it rewarding and fun to do no not really and minus the cost of the pursuit
01:41:42
it takes two minutes it's not that bad but when that Nets out the Y is stronger
01:41:48
thankfully on net than the cost so the behavior happens yeah but the key part of this equation here is the Y part like
01:41:55
it's not the key part but it's the central part is the Y part why does this thing matter to you yeah and in how much
01:42:03
why like how big is the why yeah because if if the why is I need enjoyment in the
01:42:10
present moment then no other why will be bigger no disciplined why will ever be
01:42:16
larger the only why will be why am I eating these Cheetos right now or why am
01:42:21
I drinking 20 beers every night because that's the
01:42:26
only why so I think once the why starts edging its way into the future that's
01:42:33
that's the moment where you break the discipline spiral and you get out of
01:42:39
that because your y's are extending into time that hasn't happened yet does that
01:42:44
equation stack up for you saying this I like it a lot because I I've been try I've been saying it I wrote about this
01:42:50
in my book The whole idea is why plus like we could say reinforcement minus you could say cost
01:42:56
just to simplify it yeah but is there anything missing from this equation do you think is there anything
01:43:03
I said it to Simon cynic and he went let's try it out and he talked to me about taking his bin out in the morning
01:43:08
like taking the bin out for like the bin men and it kind of holds up because he's so the why is if I don't take the bin
01:43:14
out then I'm going to get fined and my bin is going to overflow pretty strong motivator the reinforcement there's no
01:43:20
reinforcement getting out of bed at 7: a.m. to take your bin out it's not nice yeah the cost is also significant
01:43:25
getting out of bed but the Y still so it's y plus you could say like y plus
01:43:31
the psychological reinforcement from the pursuit of doing it so DJing really fun
01:43:37
for me I would say there's you it would be divided by the cost of inaction the
01:43:42
cost of inaction would would either add to it but it's always going to be your perception of the why mhm
01:43:49
your perception of the cost and your perception of the cost of an action and all of that is going to be about can I
01:43:55
use can I leverage my focus the mamalian brain's Focus can I leverage authority
01:44:02
over myself in some way over that mamalian part of my brain force myself out of bed Force these habits to start
01:44:09
developing and then tribe are my friends involved have I made a public agreement about something and then the emotion
01:44:16
which I think would be the why yeah and and like that's the emotional driver that animal can understand
01:44:23
you visualizing yourself better like looking with a six-pack or whatever it is but printing it on a vision board
01:44:31
this is why I think vision boards are so important not because we're manifesting something out of the universe maybe it
01:44:38
is but we are definitely showing something that a dog can understand it's
01:44:44
imagery and dog dog can understand images so we're routinely exposing
01:44:51
ourselves to these vision boards on a very very regular basis and if you follow the brainwashing formula which is
01:44:58
focus emotion agitation and repetition it spells fear and that is the best way to
01:45:04
brainwash yourself to form these new habits and goals so how can I get myself to focus how can I build the emotion which
01:45:12
is the why recurring emotion not just one at the very beginning how can I continue to make it emotional or maybe I
01:45:19
can make the cost of an action emotional maybe I can buy the app that makes me look fat or one of those things and then
01:45:27
agitation is if I'm waking up uh habituation which you just talked about
01:45:32
if I'm waking up in the same house every day that I've been fat in let's say I wanted to lose weight or whatever the
01:45:38
same house every day that I've lived xway in I'm seeing the same hallway same rug same couch everything looks the same
01:45:45
my brain says oh I'm here I'm going to follow that script because our brain writes scripts for us to save us time so
01:45:52
a itation means I'm going to disrupt my environment so much and so often that my
01:45:59
brain has no chance to default to an older script so I have clients that repaint their house they rearrange their
01:46:05
furniture they change up their wardrobe a whole lot they get a completely new haircut so they're not even looking at
01:46:10
the same person in the mirror anymore they do everything you can to disrupt that Rhythm it's exactly what we would
01:46:16
do with a a detainee if we were trying to brainwash someone who is in an
01:46:23
intelligence uh interrogation so I'm disrupting environment like crazy and
01:46:29
what will we do with a dog are we going to let it do everything it's always done we're going to change that environment
01:46:34
we're going to change the behavior change the lease change the collar so it's not not everything exactly the same
01:46:41
and then repetition repetition which is just repeating the same thing over and over so like if even just coming to the
01:46:47
vision board uh the last client I had I had him go to Best Buy and get a 70in TV
01:46:53
and then get one of those cheap tablets those $300 $200 tablets and just duct
01:46:58
tape it to the back of the TV and put his vision point vision board on that
01:47:03
thing it's like 900 slides of just non-stop photos but it runs 24 hours a
01:47:09
day in his office even if he's not there he walks in the morning it's on nonstop repetition because him having to turn it
01:47:17
off at night means he's got another point of discipline I've got to turn that TV on start that little PowerPoint thing um but that's nonstop and it's
01:47:24
just non-stop exposure so can I generate Focus that's a lot of focus on on the
01:47:31
goals then there's emotion you're you're seeing all of that agitation which is disrupting my life patterns and
01:47:37
repetition which is just over and over and over how can I reexpose you to the
01:47:42
same stimuli reexpose myself to the same stimuli
01:47:47
interesting so I should keep a vision board I I think always think with your
01:47:53
goals like how would I show these goals to my dog how would I show these goals to my
01:48:01
dog and how would I let my dog know shit's going to change around here I'm GNA move stuff around I'm G to make
01:48:08
everything different move his bedh is there anything else that we
01:48:13
haven't covered yet in terms of your work here that is important for us to
01:48:18
know I will give anybody listening one big piece of advice that I've pass down to my kids and maybe just make this a
01:48:24
final piece of advice is if you are exposed to a product that can't tell you
01:48:32
the problem that they're solving you need to be terrified absolutely
01:48:37
terrified so like if I look at door Dash or Uber Eats they get food to me faster
01:48:45
I don't have to leave my house I don't have to do anything I can continue writing my book or doing something on my
01:48:51
computer and the food just shows up they tell you the problem that they're solving right look at Amazon they can
01:48:57
tell you all the problems they're solving but you look at something like apple Vision
01:49:04
Pro they can't tell you you will never see it you see all
01:49:10
the problems that a Macbook solves this this camera does all this does all these things it helps you get this F done
01:49:16
faster and you look at Facebook meta these AR goggles none of them will
01:49:22
ever ever tell you the problems that they're trying to solve because it's loneliness and people needing to
01:49:28
anesthetize themselves from being in their own life and we are in a
01:49:34
loneliness epidemic right now in the midst of all this we've never been more
01:49:41
connected but we've never had more loneliness than is in the world right now so there's so many
01:49:47
products uh that are out there that are that seem great but they can't
01:49:53
articulate what they're really solving and it's usually loneliness boredom or a
01:49:59
need to anesthetize myself so I don't have to think about my life I don't have to be in my life
01:50:06
and that should be one thing if I could just program into everyone's head be so
01:50:12
I did this to my kids just be so so scared and so cautious when I see a
01:50:18
product or an app or anything that's not openly advertised ing the problem that
01:50:23
they're solving I mean there's a lot of entertainment apps right at the moment for young kids and social networks fine
01:50:30
for boredom is boredom a problem it might be but because I'm trying to distinguish between like is Tik Tok
01:50:36
solving a problem for a young kid right so that might be solving loneliness instead of
01:50:42
boredom and I think Tik Tok does not talk about solving any
01:50:47
problem it's like a casino isn't it for the dopamine yeah it's so bad and they use some they use a hypnosis technique
01:50:55
not just Tik Tok this is everybody uh called fractionation which is where you bring
01:51:00
somebody up and like so like you'll see one of those videos of a grandpa holding his grandbaby you know like that that
01:51:08
makes you almost cry have you ever cried just watching like a 60-second Instagram reel yeah I have too man and I feel
01:51:14
stupid I'm by myself yeah watching a 60-second video uh but like they'll pull
01:51:20
you down into that then they'll they'll punch you back up like two videos later and and you'll start to notice this two
01:51:28
videos later it'll be a riot someone robbing a store fist fight a car going
01:51:34
way too fast flipping off the road an airplane almost crouching so they get you up and down and up and down and the
01:51:41
more I can do that this is proven that that ramps up suggestibility Dr Milton Erikson uh did
01:51:49
studies on this in the 1960s and that increases your level of
01:51:55
suggestibility like tenfold the more I can get you up and down up and down and
01:52:01
what happens after you get like four five cycles of up and down you get an
01:52:08
ad and it's so reliable and I didn't realize it was
01:52:15
happening until my wife said why are you buying off Instagram as like once a
01:52:21
week now and it I was working on me so I was buying stupid that was on Instagram
01:52:28
ads and then I finally set time limits on those apps you set time limits on
01:52:33
those apps yes yes my wife has the passcode to unlock the uh whatever it's
01:52:39
called screen time the iPhone screen time but I'm a I'm a brainwashing
01:52:46
expert and I am personally terrified of short form social media
01:52:52
like that and I'm not immune and I'm one of the best in the
01:52:59
world and I am not immune to it and I think that should be a stark warning for
01:53:05
a lot of people what what's the cost though what's the cost of the life in your view
01:53:12
of the living this kind of life where you know we go home and we just like burn our brains out with these social
01:53:19
media apps and Fry our dopamine receptors is there like a cost yeah I think the cost is increased
01:53:26
loneliness and the these apps any app that sells ads has two main goals number
01:53:33
one uh and all advertising shares these two main goals number one make you compare yourself to other people in
01:53:39
unhealthy ways number two make you think I am not enough and we see that
01:53:45
everywhere I'm not enough I'm comparing myself to other people and it gets us into an US versus them then it traps you
01:53:52
into into a corner of confirmation bias whatever you think I'm going to show you
01:53:57
this group of 150 people that agree with you no matter how stupid how radical how
01:54:04
absolutely bizarre your ideas are let me show you all of these people and then you start thinking the whole world's
01:54:10
like that so really quickly what happens when we
01:54:15
conglomerate people together like I'm I've only been in New York once in my life but we're in New York right now
01:54:22
looking at my hotel I like struggling to find a piece of nature like I think I
01:54:28
have more trees on my property than they're in the whole uh City here so on
01:54:34
the whole when you squeeze people together have you heard of the bystander effect uh I have heard of it but please
01:54:40
so they there is a very good experiment that was led by Dr Phillips and Bardo that they did at uh Liverpool Street
01:54:46
Station in London in London yeah okay so right at Liverpool Street there's this there's a video on YouTube
01:54:52
um and it's fair use if you want to Overlay like an image of what this looks like but at Liverpool Street station
01:54:59
there's three or four steps to get up to the main so from the street there's a curb and then there's three or four
01:55:04
steps they had this woman laid out on the ground wearing like a normal skirt
01:55:10
and top and I think 395 people either walked by her or stepped over
01:55:17
her and then they did it with a guy then they did it with a guy he's holding a beer and he's asking for help and they
01:55:23
they made changed all these variables but it's happened in New York City before there's a woman named Kitty
01:55:28
genovas in the 60s I think just two blocks from here who was stabbed to death in front of like 55 Witnesses
01:55:35
don't quote me on that number and no one called the police until much much later
01:55:41
mostly because everyone thought somebody else would act but if I describe to
01:55:46
you saying I watched a person get stabbed and three people just watched
01:55:54
and they watched it happen would you say that that's psychopathy that's a psychopath so these large cities and
01:56:02
stuff and the apps that are messing with the social part of our brain that makes us think the tribe is way bigger than
01:56:08
our brains are made to handle causes this almost Psychopathic Behavior which the bystander effect has
01:56:15
been proven hundreds of times as as an experiment is that because if I'm
01:56:20
logging on to social media I'm becoming desensitized to this kind of thing but also if if you live in London you get
01:56:27
quite accustomed to seeing someone that is homeless and so in that case of
01:56:32
seeing someone rolling on the Floy Liverpool Street Station you might have seen it before and it might have just been someone who was homeless or
01:56:39
struggling with something yeah some kind of addiction or something yeah so you you you've become somewhat desensitized
01:56:45
to it is that so it you you are getting desensitized to it but your brain is
01:56:51
made to hold small tribes of a couple hundred people and the moment that tribe
01:56:57
expands into something your brain can't imagine you are no longer relying on
01:57:03
reputation from anyone you don't care what other people are thinking about you and the moment that stops your brain
01:57:10
says I don't have the capacity to worry about everyone that I see so empathy
01:57:16
disappears like you walk down these streets here in New York their empathy is zero for you no matter what's
01:57:22
happening you walk through a country town it's like 1,500 people I the
01:57:27
population of the town I live in is 2,200 and if you get cut on the arm or
01:57:32
like you stumbled four cars will stop people get out of their cars to figure out what's going on because our brains
01:57:39
can handle smaller tribes the moment we get flooded with all of these things all
01:57:44
of these people that we can't possibly care about everybody empathy disappears the second aspect of this is
01:57:52
if we're surrounded by environments that our ancestors would be absolutely scared of and confused by we we start
01:58:00
developing problems in our brain depression loneliness suicide through the roof in large cities every time
01:58:07
there's no exception and I think the same thing happens when we put stuff our cells our ancestors cells don't
01:58:13
recognize uh you had the glucose Queen on here recently talking about some of
01:58:18
this we're putting unnatural stuff into our bodies you had a toxicologist on
01:58:23
here I think talking about this too that goes into our bodies Our Ancestors don't know what that is and our bodies can't
01:58:29
process it it turns into disease it turns into mental disease when our
01:58:35
bodies can't process everything that's going on around us so I in my theory and
01:58:40
this is just my theory the further we're separated from nature we find disease
01:58:46
mental and physical amen we have a closing tredition on this
01:58:52
podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for
01:58:58
the question left for you is how can we consistently feel and appreciate the
01:59:03
blessings in our lives and this is interesting because you talked about gratitude earlier on yeah I think
01:59:10
if mindfulness has become a Trope now it's just kind of become overused on on
01:59:17
the internet and it's one of the I think it's a super power just learning present
01:59:25
tense mindfulness of just being in this moment and I think if you one of the
01:59:32
fastest ways to get good at just enjoying the moment is to be so self
01:59:37
forgiving that it's almost delusional that's the best advice that I could give somebody be delusionally self-forgiving
01:59:45
about everything what does that mean in reality give me an example um most
01:59:51
people look back with regret and shame I shouldn't have done that or I should have done that I can't believe I
01:59:57
embarrassed myself I can't believe I you know did that thing in front of those
02:00:03
people get so forgiving of everything that you've ever done of yourself that
02:00:08
it is like delusional to the point where it's just crazy and you're thinking I
02:00:14
shouldn't forgive myself for that you get to a point where everything is fine and it's just
02:00:19
hilarious if you get to that point your ability to stay in the present and not stuck in the past will tin X overnight
02:00:28
just the ability to be delusionally self forgiving how does that keep you out of
02:00:33
thinking about the future though because thinking about the future is great especially once we follow that
02:00:39
discipline practice and we're putting concern forward and gratitude
02:00:45
backwards you wrote a book called phrase seven which which is I hear is being turned into a TV series yeah which
02:00:52
you're going to feature in as a bartender as a bartender and this is being released next year for 25 seconds
02:00:58
all right okay better than nothing and this is being released next year we're hopeful yeah what's your what is the
02:01:05
book about phas s it is a fictional book
02:01:11
about mind control hypnosis brainwashing and how those things are
02:01:17
being used on our population but also about how you can recognize it and even
02:01:23
how you can use some of those techniques in your everyday life but it's kind of like a mix between
02:01:30
24 and Suits okay yeah people know suits and if I if I want to learn more about
02:01:36
your work and I want to get I want to go further into everything that you do where's the best place for me to go just
02:01:42
our homepage which is NCI which is our neurocognitive intelligence NCI do
02:01:48
University NCI do University yeah and right at the very bottom of that page I'll put a link that says CEO that has
02:01:55
anything that I talked about here as well that people can download and this book here is that available on the
02:02:00
website the paperback version of that is yes okay the paperback version the same
02:02:06
but it's the same stuff right yes exactly cool Chase thank you it's so
02:02:11
unbelievably fascinating I I get the impression that I could talk to you probably for 20 hours maybe I feel like this
02:02:18
conversation could have been 20 hours long because I feel like we're just scratching the surface but because I guess at the end of the day everything
02:02:23
is about humans it is you know every every goal dream problem I have in my life it could actually be just distilled
02:02:31
down to some kind of human challenge with my girlfriend with you know the businesses I run Etc even with like
02:02:37
being a host of a podcast it's all human beings so that's why I'm so hungry to learn more because it's clearly like the
02:02:42
singular skill that's going to unlock all of the things that I care about and that's why as well like when you talk
02:02:47
about some of these studies the milgrim study and a bunch of them in school I was obsessed with these things I still
02:02:54
remember the studies that like the mgrm study that they just changed my life and my thinking in so many ways and as I
02:03:00
grew up and I became you know I did like uh call center stuff and then like business leadership in our podcast it's
02:03:07
all there it's all been human it's all there every step of the way it's been about the same things even you know
02:03:12
running businesses now the mgrm study or the when I was in the call center the milgrim study was still pertinent or as
02:03:18
a podcast host the milgrim study is still pertinent because it's once again just dealing with humans and that's what you're helping people to unlock so thank
02:03:24
you for doing what you do absolutely um and for the many you know you've got a lot of Raving fans online I thank you on
02:03:29
behalf of all of them as well and if anyone wants to go check out the YouTube channel which is really fascinating because I've watched you many many many
02:03:35
many times breaking down moments in society and culture and looking at those moments through the lens of Behavioral
02:03:42
um factors and body language and things like that to help you interpret what was going on in that moment it's incredibly
02:03:48
Illuminating and it's incredibly it's entertainment at the end of the day it's fantastic thank you so much Chase thanks
02:03:54
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[Music]
