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could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this please hit the follow or subscribe button it helps more than you know and we invite subscribers in
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every month to watch the show in person kobe bryant was not interested in winning championships
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he was obsessed he was the trainer for dwyane wade kobe bryant michael jordan the book is relentless tim rover what is
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your dark side after every semester of anatomy class you have dead bodies my dad's job was to dispose of those bodies you have to cut off their legs you have to cut off their head i saw him do that
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when i was four years old it doesn't get any darker than that if i spoke to some of your clients and i asked them what was tim good at for you what would they say to me elevating them
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to another level very few people understand what winning does to an individual's mental health
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winning doesn't make you heartless but it teaches you to use your heart less every decision i've made i knew what the cost was going to be if you think the
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price of winning is too high wait till you get the bill from regret so without further ado i'm stephen bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo usa edition i hope
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nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself [Music] tim i read in your book winning the unforgiving race to greatness
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chapter 12. and i don't usually start with people's books i wanna i wanna you usually start
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somewhere else but in chapter 12 you talk about this this concept of the dark side and the darkest
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side right there huh yeah yeah and the reason i want to go right there is because i actually think it's the start
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for many people it's the start so tell me about your dark side and where and what it came from this is a very unique story so
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my father both my parents are indian descent so they came over to the states when i was four my mother came over first she was a nurse practitioner
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and my dad was a professor in india so when he came over from india to the uk he was still a professor over there when he came from uk to the united states
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they said that his education would not transfer that he could not he wasn't qualified
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enough to teach at the university level in the states so my dad said okay well what job do you have available so they had a job back then it was
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called a degreaser a degreaser is an individual doesn't this job does not exist anymore after every
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quarter or every semester of anatomy class you have cadavers cadavers cadavers dead
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bodies my dad's job was to dispose of those bodies now this is a man that was called a doctor
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back in the old country now when you dispose of these cadavers it's not a garbage truck that comes and picks them up you have to dismantle them
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you have to cut off their legs you have to cut off their arms you have to cut off their head
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and you throw them in a furnace i saw him do that when i was four years old my parents couldn't afford babysitters my mom worked at night my dad worked during the day so when you
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were off from school guess what you can't disturb mom because she's worked 16 hours at night you go to work with your dad
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my dad said he goes son never let your pride get in the way of doing what's necessary and providing for the people you love
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it doesn't get any darker than that you still feel it today very i wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him and the things that he did both of them
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never complained went to work every single day as you were telling me that story what was the emotion you know what people talk about
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sacrifice that others did for them very few get to actually witness it and remember there's certain memories that people have when you go way back in age and they
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can't even remember i have vivid memories of those things and how not only did they mold him how
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they molded my brother the effects it had on both of us positive and negative and i understand
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how to use that darkness in the most positive way just like my dad did because to him
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that darkness was a new beginning he didn't look at it as an individual who like i'm so accomplished back over here
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he was just grateful and thankful to be in the united states and have a new opportunity and a new beginning for his family
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and i always say this and this is why when we talk about the dark and the darkness and the dark
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side and all that other stuff people forget this i always say this when does a new day start
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it starts at midnight is it dark outside at midnight yes so if a new day and a new beginning
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starts in the dark every day that's when your new beginnings start but so many people are afraid
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to go to that place and i tell them you have to visit that place because if that place comes visits you it will never leave if you go visit
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the darkness that you've been running from you'll have the opportunity to leave a
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better person you'll have a better understanding of yourself you have better understanding
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of your purpose but if you don't take that trip and the darkness comes visits you it's a guest that will never leave
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that dark side you referenced it did good and bad things for you negatives and positives what are the
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negatives it hardened me it it it really it hardened me it hardened me to the point where
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i had a hard time communicating with other individuals and a hard time understanding
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things that were so easy for me to deal with the hardships the trials and tribulations and i would see other people complain about things and i'm like what
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are you complaining about i don't i was just like i couldn't relate to it i just i just couldn't relate to it i
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didn't have much compassion for that for those in for those individuals and you talk in the book that
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often you're visited at night by a presence in the early hours of the morning every night there's an individual
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that comes visit you you know everybody has everybody has these grand grandioso dreams and these day dreams about success and money and fame and power
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and i always say winning never visits you in your daydreams it sees you in your nightmares
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the things that you come visit you in your nightmares those things are real those are the things that you have to
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deal with those are the monsters underneath the bed those are the skeletons in the closet
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those are the things that you've put away and some of the stuff that you've put away and you don't want to deal with
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is some of the best part of you how many times have you heard this people always say
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you know always show up positive you know always bring your positivity well that means you only bring half of you
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that means you're not accepting the other half you got to bring the light you got to
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bring the dark you got to bring the good you got to bring the bad you have to have conversations with those skeletons in your closets they know you better than you know
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yourself in order to stand out in order to fight many times you have to become that monster but most individuals when they become that monster they don't know how to
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control it and they let the monster control them so it's a learning process and all those years that you run from
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that monster underneath your bed you're actually being taught can you control that monster or is that monster gonna
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control you and once you recognize that part of that monster or all that monster is you
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that's when you can actually start fulfilling your dreams and living the life that you're meant to live
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how did that monster manifest itself in your behavior outside of you said about you struggle to be compassionate with other people you struggle to have empathy for their their struggles was there other things that you where
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that monster would rear its ugly head or take control of you you know what when the monster took over
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it wasn't for bad things it allowed me to deal with you know how mean kids could be the different the different bully the
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bulliness in school that every kid goes to whether it's physical or mental you know the teasing all that other stuff
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that monster allowed me to get gave me that strength to not to lash out back at those
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individuals and just say hey continue trust yourself continue on this continue on this path
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all right and don't worry about trying to prove those individuals wrong you and i will prove ourselves right when you talk about and this is what i
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was trying to gauge when i was listening to your audiobook you talk about these at 2am realizing you're not alone and i
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wasn't sure if you were being literal or figurative you were i wasn't sure if you literally felt the presence of
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spirits or someone else in your room or you meant or it was a figurative way to talk about the thoughts that were in
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your mind it's both it's both when you get out of bed or you want to get out of bed there's all these individuals that are lined up
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next to that bed there's fear there's doubt there's compassion there's hatred there's excellence
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there's sorrowness there's excuses and they all have their hands out literally literally and then you get to choose
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every single day who gets a vote it's your decision it's your decision and most times many individuals
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make their decisions with their feelings and when you have to make those decisions with your mind every single morning if you can't get out of your beds
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and you choose not to win you listen to your feelings if you chose to get out of bed and you said there's a win for me
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that's your mind and each one of those individuals you decide who gets a vote and some days not
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all the popular things are going to get a vote success may not get a vote winning may not get a
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vote but you've made that decision that now this thing gets a vote i must be ready to deal with it
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every single day there's something different there also has to be something different about yourself
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and i said this in winning different scares people when you're different it scares people when the world is different it scares people everything different
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scares people but it attracts the right emotions it attracts the right feelings it attracts right thoughts and it attracts the right
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people because the people that are willing to not judge you and understand and know
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that these things are real they are real they will tell you i understand with both books that i've written people were like i thought i was the only one
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because this is not it's not accepted to talk about these things because people put you in this land of you're crazy and anytime anybody's told me i'm crazy
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i've always thanked them for that because it gave me the ability to see and do things that other people can't do and acknowledge things that other people
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won't acknowledge it seems to be a bit of a paradox that sometimes our dark side whatever that
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might be it could be being bullied in school and the consequences that had or you know as you say in the book as well
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being overweight and being bullied for that or some trauma or whatever you've had in your life it seems to be a paradox that our dark side can both be
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the driving force of our life and also the cause of so much pain so it can be the thing to put us in pain
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and then also the thing that drives us out of pain if that makes sense it makes 100 well
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you know you look at it it's for a lot of individual you know the physical pain that they put themselves through is actually their
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pleasure you know my athletes when they the at the highest level of their training
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it is the most uncomfortable state they put themselves through every single day and people are just like i'm just not gonna i'm not gonna do that they see people that run the ultra marathons it's
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people that take these these ice baths it's you know it's it's all it's all out there
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now that doesn't mean if you do those things you're gonna you're gonna excel in other aspects of your life
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but it does raise your level of understanding that nothing great is going to come without you having
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to deal with what i call adversity and pain tolerance you must be able to deal with that and
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the more understanding you have of what's causing you the pain and how you've dealt with
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it is going to determine how successful you will be in whatever you choose in life you know you have individuals who will become from a broken family
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and you could have two children that come from the broken family and one individual will will not live up to their potential
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and they'll say it's because i came from a broken family and then you have the other individuals same environment same household same everything
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would do great things not only for themselves for humanity for this world and what's their answer because i came from a broken family
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they both understood how to use the pain one used it to excel the other used it to deny having done this podcast for the amount of amount of time that i've done it
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what you've articulated there about that broken home scenario um is the thing i've always played
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around with which is a trauma causes an adverse response typically greatness or despair yes and it's and i've always tried to figure out what a
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trauma is going to do but it's been impossible to for me but in your case it led you to be
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great in what you do and what you achieved in your life and the people you worked with so tell me about how you went from that
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traumatic early upbringing that created that dark side in you to being a sports enhancement specialist that's how you that's how you prefer yes that was my official title when i
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was when my main job was to train profession to train professional athletes so i didn't want i never wanted to consider myself and
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label myself as a trainer because i did i did more i did more than that so i actually came up with that that title
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myself so i played college basketball myself i had these dreams of playing professional
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basketball wasn't wasn't good enough okay but i was like what can i do to make sure this doesn't happen to other individuals
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and i was like you know what i started to study the body really really closely which goes all the way back to
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when i was four years old so not only did i have to study the body from an external standpoint i had to learn it from an internal internal standpoint
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going through the different injuries that i suffered through my years of working out training
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playing allowed me to understand what an individual goes to not only from a physical standpoint i understood what was going on in their head if they hurt their ankle
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hip back all that stuff i knew so not only was i able to train them from a physical standpoint i was able to train them from a psychological standpoint i know what you're going
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through i know the barriers that you have to go that you have to go through because it's so much easier
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to get an individual back from a physical injury but it's that mental scar that stays with them how what do you have to do to make them
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forget about that mental scar and that's where my that's where my niche came in like okay i need you to go
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out there and play and play at the highest level and not worry about what happened six months ago nine months ago six weeks ago
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so when it became sports enhancement the enhancement part the sports was the physical the enhancement part was was the mental
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if i spoke to some of your clients that knew you best michael jordan kobe and all these others and i know you work now with a lot of ceos a lot of business leaders etc
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and i asked them what is tim good at what was tim good at for you what would they say to me elevating elevating them to another level
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holistically holistically just being able because when somebody comes up to me and they said i want to be
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something and i look at it well somebody's already done that i need more you can't come to me and just say i want to be everyone says i want to be the world's best tennis player i want to be
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the world's best basketball player i want to be the world's greatest pop pop podcaster what
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that's already been done there's another level you're not thinking big enough my individuals come to me and say listen
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i have these dreams i have these thoughts and the first thing i tell them your dreams and thoughts better be so big that they better scare you
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they better scare you why because you're not thinking big enough then you don't want it
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it has to be something that nobody else has thought about before or done before the process it takes to be number one and stay at number one
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you have no you have no idea you have an idea because you've been there everybody wants to sit in your seat until they have to sit in your seat
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very few people understand what winning and success does to an individual's mental health
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everybody thinks the more you win the more successful you are it just makes everything so much easier and they don't understand the pressures
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that these individuals put on themselves to continue to perform at the highest level
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to have their businesses win over and over again when you reach a million followers on your social media
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it's a [Music] different level of pressure than an individual who isn't winning all the time who hasn't been
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successful at the highest level at the highest level who's not being critiqued about every decision they make
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about what they wear about what they say where they go and that's a whole different level of mental health that success brings
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that a lot of people just don't understand michael i uh i watched the last dance documentary i saw you in there as well
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um really i've got to be honest i didn't really know much about mj before that and it went from me watching that documentary getting obsessed with him
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to hanging a picture on the wall in my office back in london um very soon after a neon sign in my
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office in london just of that silhouette for many many reasons but as i read through your story and a lot of my
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listeners won't know about this so i feel obliged because i know the question they'll be asking is how on earth did you go from
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a college graduate that was you know earning three dollars an hour as a trainer in a gym to
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becoming the trainer of all the sports enhancement specialists for michael jordan who many see as one of the greatest if not the greatest sporting athletes of all time
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what happened in that gap well when i started to go to college i didn't know what i wanted to do and you know again being of
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indian descent and having both parents and in the medical in the medical field you get to choose
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two options as a career one being a doctor and this is back in the 80s second being a doctor that's it and i told my parents i do not want to
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go i don't want to be a doctor they said well what do you want to do i said i want to train professional
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athletes i knew this very early i knew this very very very very early because when i was a freshman in college
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there was a uh a class it was the first time it was being offered at the school it was called kinesiology just movement of the
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muscles and body and basically movement movement of humans and i took it kind of picked up a book and i started i said you know what
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this is for me so when people kept telling me why are you going to take this class why
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everybody said oh you know most people that take these courses end up being in the health
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industry whether it be studying science working in administrations in colleges or being uh health educators and i just like no there's there's something more out there for me
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there's something there's something more out there for me and then when we we'd have
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our basketball practices in college and so forth and i was like all we're doing is just we're just
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running running we're doing stuff without a purpose this this this can't this can't be this
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can't be right this can't be right and we had an individual that would come in and work our team out i was just like this
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doesn't just this doesn't feel right so i really took study to this i really wanted to understand this later on i graduated with a master's degree
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parents were like you know well you got this you can't stay at home gotta go get a job master's
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degree in master's degree in exercise science all right and i took a job at a local health club the minimum wage back then was
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and 35 cents i took the job i took the job they did not allow i was the most qualified individual they had on their training
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staff but they still wouldn't allow me to train because i had to do the six-month probation period
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so i said okay no problem so what i did was i worked in the exercise rooms i basically cleaned the clean the
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equipment opened up the gyms did different different different stuff different stuff like that and then after
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six months passed by they said okay you have to take this exam and if you pass the exam we'll allow you
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to be a trainer well what the funny part about is when i looked at the exam it was the exam i actually
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wrote as one of my projects for school and this and this health club was using the exam i actually wrote to certify their trainers crazy
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so i looked at this exam i i gave all the answers and i gave it to them and they they scored and they said you got
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100 you're able to qualify as a trainer i said thank you i said where'd you guys get that from
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they said you know oh you know what we got it from you from a university i said which university
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and they said university of illinois chicago i said yeah i said you should really follow up and see who developed that exam
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so they came back later on and said you wrote this i said yes i'm the one that wrote this exam i'm the one that
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wrote this is that so i became the trainer over there and in a very short period of time i became the highest grossing trainer
00:29:05
they had in the in there but what was great about it is and i talked about this in the book
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school taught me what to think all the education all the books everything i knew exactly what to what to think but when you start dealing with humans
00:29:26
who are able to communicate and who have their own thoughts and have their own beliefs and have their own feelings have
00:29:31
their own emotions have their own ideas i was like as a whole part of my education that's missing here my schooling taught me what to think
00:29:45
now i need to learn how to think there's a big difference between the two and once i started training individuals understanding
00:29:58
how different people adapted to the different ways of communicating different times of working out different
00:30:05
words different facial expressions whether different levels of silence that's when i really started to manifest my trade and understand the results
00:30:18
with all the different type of individuals and these weren't just athletes he was everybody who wanted to
00:30:25
just get into shape lose weight get stronger jump higher run a little faster play better tennis whatever it may be
00:30:31
but i'm sitting here and i'm like i'm only using maybe 10 percent of what i've learned in
00:30:38
school there's got to be more and there was a small article in the local newspaper that said michael jordan was tired of taking the physical abuse from the detroit pistons
00:30:49
and wanted to get stronger like okay so i said you know what now back then remember there's no cell phones no emails you just uh
00:31:01
there's no way of direct messaging social media there's no way of direct messaging anybody so i said i'm gonna
00:31:07
write letters there's 15 players on a basketball team i'm going to write 14 letters the one person i'm not going to
00:31:14
write a letter to is michael jordan he's the best why would he why would he work with an individual that's never
00:31:21
worked with a professional athlete so i wrote 14 letters explaining my background what what i do what my training
00:31:27
philosophy is and back then you put a stamp in it you go to the post office you put them in the mail
00:31:32
and they get delivered to the player's training facility and they get thrown in the locker as fan mail
00:31:38
whether the player decides to open it up or not that's up to them well obviously somebody opened up one of
00:31:44
the letters and michael saw it in some in somebody else's locker pulled the letter out read it and gave it to the team physician and the athletic trainer
00:31:56
during that time and said hey find out what this is about i have to pause you there just to
00:32:02
highlight the fact that most people would not send those letters i'm not most there's nothing about me that qualifies as most there's nothing that qualifies me me as me as average because you know
00:32:18
what what's the worst thing that could have possibly happened i'd be in the exact same situation i was in
00:32:25
i wasn't gonna be any worse if i didn't take that initiative i didn't take that action i was in a worse situation
00:32:36
in hindsight yeah but it's so it's so interesting because that those moments riddle my story where
00:32:43
i sent um the first one was just sending emails to at nine to eighteen years old to say
00:32:48
same people were you invested in my company at 18 after dropping out of university and i i talk about this and this is why i paused you because
00:32:54
it happened when i was 16 happened when i was 18 happened when i was 24 and those were pivotal moments in my life and as you say if i rolled the dice and
00:33:01
got a bad hand i was in the same place but but it was free to it was like free to roll in your case it cost you a
00:33:07
couple of stamps to roll and it baffles my mind that you know the people the young people that listen to
00:33:12
this podcast that are trapped in the situation they're in aren't just rolling the dice every day to see if
00:33:18
they can get a michael jordan the best of the best they're always looking for a competitive edge they're always looking for that
00:33:29
that .001 percent thing that can make them better i had a conversation i and this
00:33:36
individual i never i'd i've never worked with but he was an event that i was speaking at also and he spoke
00:33:42
but he spoke before me michael phelps oh yeah all right for anybody that doesn't know michael phelps maybe the most
00:33:48
accomplished olympic swimmer of all time yes so michaels said that he trained every single day he was he was he was at the pinnacle of his career and
00:34:01
he said it's not like i can go ahead and i can knock off three seconds he goes i train every single day so i can shave
00:34:16
0.001 second he goes that's my ultimate goal after three four months of getting ready for my next race or years whatever it is i
00:34:27
need to be i need to shave .0001 off my time and everybody he surrounded himself with that was their job marginal gains as we call it that one
00:34:40
percent that 0.1 and i i heard you talk about this with with kobe in the book and your other
00:34:47
athletes um that that trying to find that edge and kobe was one of those people that in the book that you talk
00:34:53
about really trying to find that edge as well um in his career i'm really compelled by the concept of
00:34:58
marginal gains because i feel like it's been my religion for my life and my team here hearing me talk
00:35:04
about this so much that they're sick of it which was which is like how do we make what we're doing here all my businesses but let's just focus on what
00:35:10
we see here one percent better so whether it means putting these little things up to stop
00:35:15
the reflection in there whether it means you know the effort they went to to put these things up like that is my religion
00:35:22
and when i when you sat down here i said this podcast has been going for about a year and we're number one and that is
00:35:27
purely based on the fact that we believe the one percent will change our trajectory in an invisible way in the
00:35:32
moment but in a profound way over time yes how important are those marginal gains
00:35:38
to the athletes that you've worked with and in the work you do with them still today it's everything it's everything and it's in the details
00:35:45
you know you just described all these little things and somebody coming on it doesn't matter you know a great example was like you
00:35:52
know what when we handed you the book you're like this cover is so much better than the other one switch it
00:35:58
it's the little attention to the little things that people everyone thinks they won't notice you
00:36:05
hear this all the time don't sweat the small stuff the one percenters the 0.01 they sweat
00:36:12
every single detail because the one thing they let slips somebody is going to use that to their advantage somebody is going to make a
00:36:24
big deal out of it and they're going to feel like they left something out you know
00:36:30
everyone says don't worry about the things that you can't control well these individuals
00:36:40
they want to control everything they can control so the uncontrollable becomes more manageable to them so if they pay attention to every single detail
00:36:50
obsessively over and over and over again that when the uncontrollable happens they can have a better chance of controlling it there's a big thing that we used to use
00:37:07
with kobe all the time is i used to ask individuals if you're interested in taking your business
00:37:18
or your basketball game your football skills your podcast and this we'd have a room of thousands and thousands of people stand up
00:37:29
and everybody would stand up and they give this big rounding clap and all this other stuff
00:37:35
if you're interested in taking it to number one if you're interested yes to uh the next level for some people it may
00:37:40
not be number one whatever it is everybody claps up and then i say sit back down then i would ask him i said
00:37:46
all right if you're obsessed with taking your business your sport whatever it is to another level stand up
00:38:00
and everybody would stand up again well i would say well which one is it which one is it you can't be interested and you can't be obsessed interested is a hobby
00:38:13
kobe bryant was not interested in winning championships he was obsessed and obsession comes in the small details that nobody pays attention
00:38:26
to and i have a saying all right interested people watch obsessed people change the world kobe was interested in those small details that nobody else was interested
00:38:38
in paying attention to what were those small details for him everyone talks about
00:38:44
maximizing their time kobe and i were interested in maximizing his focus when you maximize your focus it gave us more it gave us more time
00:38:56
the having everything laid out for him so he wouldn't have to worry about the what shoes he what shoes he had to wear where where the t where the tickets had
00:39:08
to go for friends and for the friends and family we would come around and in the
00:39:14
different arenas i would walk the floors while he was getting dressed and i would
00:39:20
tell him where the ball doesn't bounce as well because on a basketball court it's made out of wood all right and they're they're portable
00:39:31
floors and everybody knows in certain arenas they're dead spots you force the player into that area if the ball is going to bounce there it's not going to it's not going to bounce as high which gives the team team the
00:39:44
advantage and a lot of times when they would move those they would move those pieces
00:39:49
around so we would walk around bounce the ball that spot that spot that spot that spot
00:39:56
so we'd get an advantage of the details that nobody else would pay attention to that
00:40:01
if we went into that area we know stay away from that area or if we know we can't dribble on that that that
00:40:08
particular spot and there was one time there was a game where kobe was before the game he was shooting
00:40:14
free throws and he was like something isn't something isn't right so he called the one of the maintenance guys over he goes are you sure this basket is right and the guy said yeah he goes well i
00:40:26
want you to check it for he measured it was an eighth of an inch off when you're that obsessed when you pay that much attention to the to the to the details
00:40:40
you know it's no different than what you said about the lighting and the microphones and the team i've
00:40:46
never seen i've done quite a few podcasts we're very selective in who who we want to sit we want to sit down with
00:40:57
and this is the first time i've seen this many individuals were having a conversation yesterday and i've been thinking about it the last two days since we had the conversation the conversation is should
00:41:10
we hire someone full-time to look at the data and analytics of the episodes when
00:41:16
they go out so we can if we put an episode out and the title thumbnail is wrong we can know within 24
00:41:21
hours if we need to change it like we we know in this conversation which part in
00:41:26
hindsight from looking at the data people found most interesting because they pull it back and watch it again and it's all of these insights which are
00:41:33
there but we want to be the team that is the team that cares enough about that about those tiny details because that is
00:41:38
our religion as we say that is what where we believe we'll find all the gains that's where the separation is
00:41:44
the separation is in the details it's in the details the separation and the clothes you wear
00:41:50
is in the details the sh the shoes the car that you drive the the house your your education it doesn't matter whether you go to the most expensive university or you drop out of the universe it's the
00:42:04
details you pay attention to in your studies in whatever your career choice is that those are the things that matter you pay attention to the details in in
00:42:15
your family pay attention to the details in your kids you pay attention to the details of what makes your significant
00:42:22
other happy how they react to certain things it's people get comfortable with not having to manage the details
00:42:33
i had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast as the seasons have begun to change so has my diet and
00:42:39
um right now i'm going to be completely honest with you i'm starting to think a lot about
00:42:44
slimming down a little bit because over the last couple of probably the last four or five months my diet has been
00:42:49
pretty bad um and it started to show a little bit really over the last two months i go to the gym about 80 of the
00:42:55
time so i track it with 10 of my friends in a whatsapp group and this tracker online that we all use together we call
00:43:01
it fitness blockchain and i'm currently at 81 percent um so 81 of the days i've done a workout
00:43:08
in the last 150 days right so i'm going to the gym about six times a week that's been a little bit impacted by the derivative live tour but i'm trying to stick to it and so one of the things i'm doing now
00:43:19
to reduce my calorie intake and trying to get back to being nutritionally complete and all i eat is i'm having the
00:43:26
heel protein shake thank you hill for making a product that i actually like the salted caramel is my favorite i've got the banana one here which is the one
00:43:32
my girlfriend likes but for me salted caramel is the one having worked with a man like kobe and seeing what he strived for his you know
00:43:43
his focus on legacy his obsession with his sports and his craft and his obsession as many have said
00:43:49
of being better than michael jordan he's no longer with us tragically but having seen a man striving for that greatness in his life and for that legacy
00:44:01
and having seen how that story ended and now being able to look back on the fullness of his life
00:44:07
what was he missing and the reason i asked this question is because sometimes i reflect on my own striving and think is there something in hindsight having lived a life where i achieve
00:44:19
those things where i reach the top in you know my industry in business or in podcasting wherever it might be or as an
00:44:25
investor that i'm going to realize in hindsight and go do you know what legacy might not have mattered as much as i thought it did it might not have mattered as much as relationships or friendships or something else
00:44:38
i always say this the most driven individuals they live a life for many years and certain times without balance
00:44:51
everybody strives for balance balance balance and in order to be that obsessed with
00:44:57
something over and over again so if you say something that's that was missing but it was actually a gift was
00:45:09
his lack of balance you know there were time now you can't be the best at something
00:45:21
and try to balance everything else around your life there is going to be times where things
00:45:27
are going to be out of balance it's just this i you know so many individuals talk
00:45:32
about that you need more balance you need more balance you need more else you don't
00:45:38
find balance you create it and it's different for every individual out there what
00:45:44
the balance i've created may be completely different than the balance you you've cr you've created and there's
00:45:49
certain times in your life that the scales are definitely going to be weighing towards one side more than the
00:45:55
other in early part of kobe's kobe's career it was about it was about basketball and winning
00:46:02
about basketball and winning and towards the end of it towards the end of his career and you know he played
00:46:08
for 20 years it became more less about winning it was still about basketball and it became more focused became more on spending time with the family but you
00:46:19
have to surround yourself with people and this is very important to the listeners
00:46:27
you have to surround yourself with people when your life is unbalanced with individuals that would be selfish for you they understand your obsession they
00:46:38
understand your drive they understand your attention to detail no i guarantee it almost i don't know your whole team
00:46:49
but i guarantee almost everyone on your team at some point every single day is they become selfish for another individual so that individual can
00:47:00
perform and do their task at the highest level that's how you get closer to balance you
00:47:07
want to get closer to balance don't continue to add stuff get closer to balance by deleting the unessentials delete the unessentials the most
00:47:19
successful people and the success when i talk about success i'm not just talking about
00:47:26
from a financial standpoint whatever success means to you and whatever success means to you in your
00:47:32
in your life they've learned how to disconnect they've learned how to delete the unessentials
00:47:44
because you spend so much time being obsessed and paying attention to the details that you don't have time you don't have focus
00:47:55
for the unessentials the most successful people have the smaller circles when people hear that there'll be young kids that listen and they'll
00:48:09
they might stop talking to their family they might stop calling their girlfriend and they might say you know what it's because i just need to be obsessed and
00:48:15
they might compromise things in their life that lead them to despair and happiness and those kinds of
00:48:22
things and i always wonder with these individuals that you've worked with that are at the highest level that are that are obsessed
00:48:28
do they prioritize happiness as the goal as the ultimate goal or is winning the goal at all costs and in your view do sometimes they go too far should
00:48:41
happiness be the goal i can't make that decision for those individuals my job if happening happiness could be winning for them all right but you don't find happiness
00:48:52
you create it you're not going to find winning you have to create you have to create winning habits
00:48:58
i sat here with a lady who became the number one youtuber in the world and she had 15 million subscribers and she was
00:49:04
talking about her obsession she would get these spreadsheets this was before the analytics she'd write down how the video done in each like hour two hours
00:49:10
whatever she was obsessed she becomes the biggest in the world and in the process of getting there she realized
00:49:15
that this was she was completely burnt out miserable depressed and she'd been like dragged by this obsession to a
00:49:23
place that made her depressed and eventually in 2019 she quits youtube and that's what i think sometimes with our darkness it drags us in a way that in a less conscious way to a place that
00:49:35
might make us unhappy it does you know listen winning does not always equate that winning does not always
00:49:41
equate to happiness it just it just doesn't for i've had a lot of individuals that have come to me and
00:49:46
just said this is too intense i'll give you a great example you know everyone kobe is known for mama mentality you
00:49:54
know that was that was his thing mama mentality i've seen mama first of all mama mentality is not a mentality it's a
00:50:00
lifestyle that's the first thing i tell individuals and once i tell them about the lifestyle
00:50:07
i've seen mama mentality destroy more careers than i've seen it help too intense too hot
00:50:20
people want the flame but they don't want to touch the fire are you willing to put aside
00:50:29
the things that aren't as important as aren't as important to you at this particular moment and i'm not telling you kids listen don't don't separate yourself from from your your family but
00:50:41
there's a lot of times that your family doesn't see the same things that you see and the same things that you believe in
00:50:48
they've had a certain way of do of doing things my family very supportive very supportive but to them success was working for
00:51:00
a institution that you got a paycheck every single two weeks you got health insurance you got paid vacation you got a 401k
00:51:13
that was their definition of success and happiness to me none of that would have made me happy
00:51:26
so when you talk about creating happiness are you creating happiness that you you've created or somebody else
00:51:33
has created for you are you writing your story of happiness or did somebody else write your story of happiness and hand
00:51:40
it to you and say here this is how you become happy one of the things i think i've struggled
00:51:45
with in my life is knowing if something is something i want or if it's scratching
00:51:51
an insecurity i have so insecurity as you know is one of the greatest motivators in the world
00:51:58
then it can turn into an obsession so if you're bullied in school you might want to become famous because that in your view is acceptance
00:52:06
right so you see face you strive and then the minute you get a taste of fame maybe because you start a youtube channel you triple down because people
00:52:12
are clapping for you and this is everything that didn't happen when you were a kid this is it's filling that void but is that happiness or am i just
00:52:19
using external validation to cover a wound in me and i see this in great people all the time i always try and get
00:52:25
to the bottom of the pain as we talked about the darkness the pain the trauma or whatever that's actually driving them
00:52:30
and i i guess my conclusion has been that you just need to be conscious of of that
00:52:35
when you talked about you know that insecurity that that darkness that need for for to be valid to be validated
00:52:43
what's going is it controlling you or are you controlling it you know the one thing that listen there was a point where as obsessed as michael was with
00:52:54
basketball all right he never let the sport control him let he never let that sport control him he he was like
00:53:06
the there are certain things within this game yes i have to follow these rules i have to do things but there are certain
00:53:12
things that i still have to be in charge of my life i still have to be in charge of who i am i still have to be in charge
00:53:19
of of my brand and then when what happens is when you let external things and you start playing for the for the wrong reason a lot of individuals play always and this is the thing in with in
00:53:33
sports now everyone talks about building their brand building their brand all right and if you follow the people who have had the greatest success building their brand is they just
00:53:45
outperform individuals they put a better product out there do your job better than anybody else and your brand will
00:53:52
build it itself so when people look for that happiness factor is your foundation and your fundamental principles so strong that
00:54:04
if this thing was to go away could you still create happiness and success all over again if your foundation and principles are extremely strong no matter what endeavor it is you
00:54:17
look at the most successful people in business and everything else they've gone to do multiple things
00:54:28
that have allowed them to create different levels of happiness within that confined circle
00:54:34
you know michael had basketball then he had the shoe brand now he's got other now he's got other other endeavors he's
00:54:45
involved in you know a lot of philanthropy things the competitive nature doesn't stop and everybody thinks
00:54:52
you can only be happy with one one certain aspect in your in your life in your life you can create happiness in multiple things in your life and if it gets to the point where it is burning it
00:55:04
is burning you out that means it's time for you for that you are no longer obsessed with that thing anymore and
00:55:10
it's time for you to beco become obsessed with something else and it could be this stage in your life where your success and your happiness is now listen i just want to create happiness
00:55:22
for myself and for the individuals around me and on that point of balance was michael ever direct with you about
00:55:30
the sacrifice you would have to make to come on that journey with him the first thing he told me was you better keep up and what did he mean by that
00:55:40
what he meant by that is not as a trainer keep up in life because this ride we don't know which direction it's going to go on we don't know if it's going up down sideways but
00:55:52
be ready for anything this throws at us interestingly that's what you knew he meant one of the reasons i get along so well
00:56:04
with all my clients professionally business-wise socially or everybody because they know i'm just as messed up
00:56:10
as they are and i don't judge them my my daughter always says she goes dad you have no weird r she goes nothing to you is weird nothing to you and i was when i see
00:56:28
something i just say interesting i want to know how that what that person is doing and
00:56:36
why they're doing it and what's fueling that desire and also what are they using that desire what are they going to fuel it with
00:56:50
with other individuals one of the stories i tell years when i first started when i started first started working with with uh mj
00:57:01
and this is a lot of your listeners will be too young to remember this but the recording devices back then was called a betamax videotape he's stuck in so what i would
00:57:14
do is i'd have to be at the basketball games very early make sure everything was prepped and he
00:57:19
he was he was ready to go and we were always the last individuals to leave i'd rewatch the game i would count his steps
00:57:32
there was no fitbit back then there was no no tracking measurements or so forth well
00:57:38
i needed in my thought and this went back to my process of not what to think how to think is well how can i prepare him for his next
00:57:50
workout in the morning if i don't know how much physical activity and the differences between the right
00:58:01
and left side so i would literally count this is how many steps he took left this is how many steps he took right this is
00:58:07
how many times he took backwards this is how many times he left landed on his right foot this is how many times he landed on his left foot so i'd have all
00:58:14
this data so the next morning when i would get up i'd be able to plan okay you know what mj
00:58:20
this side you use your you use your left leg 60 more than you use your right leg but you use your
00:58:27
right hand more than you use you're like okay so this is what we're going to do from a workout standpoint now this is
00:58:33
what we're going to do from a training standpoint because one side is going to need different training than the other side is going to need so we would have
00:58:40
different exercises where he'd have 50 pounds in one hand and 10 in the other or the certain amount of reps on this exercise and certain amount of reps on this exercise certain time spent over
00:58:51
here a certain time spent over here there was no books out there that told me this is this was the right thing to
00:58:57
do i just knew it was right i just i just knew it was right and now they use this methodology all the time so interesting i was thinking about that because really interesting when you said that there was no books
00:59:13
out there and tends to be the case with pioneers and innovators and people that think from first principles that they
00:59:18
they do it before the books are published yeah and once the books are published it's probably too late yeah
00:59:25
people are using math i i stuff we were doing with him 30 years ago people are just now using them like
00:59:32
was that music to his ears when he knew that his sports enhancement specialist was going
00:59:37
to such a degree of detail could you did you know that that that was proving to him that you cared and you were as obsessed as he was yes you know he gave me one of the best
00:59:48
compliments that you can ever get at the highest level when somebody else would say hey
00:59:55
i want to hi i want to hire tim he goes i don't pay tim to train me he goes i pay him not to train anybody else that is a big compliment
01:00:07
he ultimately introduced you to somebody else when he retired and stepped out of the game after 15 years of you working
01:00:13
together which was kobe and i found it really intriguing that when he introduced you to kobe
01:00:18
he lovingly used the word when he introduced you to kobe so he said like i'm not using tim anymore so no kobe you can uh you can work with him why did he use the word
01:00:30
you know what as in to become as individuals become more successful everybody around them becomes yes people
01:00:43
nobody wanted to say no to michael jordan oh i was that individual we had many times we had very heated short arguments
01:00:58
there were like three words which i won't say because it'll it'll offend a lot of your listeners
01:01:06
but that was the end of the con that was the end of the conversation i said mj you hired me
01:01:11
to do a job at the highest level i said you cannot do a job at the highest level without accountability
01:01:23
i said once the accountability is broken between us then it's time for you to find another individual so he held me accountable i held him
01:01:36
accountable and when somebody says you better keep up as a person's star starts to grow the
01:01:43
accountability has a tendency to get less because now you don't pay attention to
01:01:50
the details as much as much because you've you feel like i've achieved it i've gotten there it's a it's a lot easier staying on the top is not the same thing
01:02:02
as reaching the top many individuals can reach the top but very few individuals stay at the top because the accountability among their team and among themselves
01:02:14
starts to deteriorate once they've reached the top and what does that deterioration in
01:02:20
accountability look like what are the signs of it i give you great example when people perform at the highest level in business sometimes a boss
01:02:32
or the person above them ceo whatever's allowed you know what man their numbers are so good
01:02:37
we're going to let them we're not going to hold them accountable for this this and this you know they're still performing they might may not be
01:02:43
performing at the highest level but they're still performing at a top level so now you have that little crack and that little crack gets a little
01:02:55
bigger and a little bigger and a little bigger michael in the last dance said something he goes i never
01:03:02
asked any of my teammates to do anything that i didn't do you talk about the greatest ever play the game he didn't have to have anybody else hold
01:03:14
him accountable he was i'm not going to ask you to do anything that i'm not going to do myself so as individuals once they've reached
01:03:25
that pinnacle and they get their arms out and they start looking down and say i finally reached the top of this mountaintop
01:03:38
those are all the right things to do don't exhale because the air is so much thinner up on the top than it is on the climb to the top
01:03:54
and if you exhale the next breath you have to catch will not have the same effect you'll have to catch multiple breaths over and over and over again that's why you see
01:04:08
some of these at some of these individuals that retire from a sport they come back or
01:04:15
you see a ceo of a company leave a company take a year off and now they become a ceo of an uh of a of another
01:04:23
company they can't exhale in chapter five of your book you you speak to some of these things that michael would do to to his teammates um one of them is he would mock his
01:04:35
teammates into dedication right you see this in the last dance where he's cracking jokes at them but you know that
01:04:40
the jokes there's these aren't jokes there's intention behind the jokes yes he's trying to get them to run faster or to train harder or whatever can you give
01:04:47
me a window into what you saw in terms of the way that michael would treat his teammates in order to get the best out
01:04:53
of him that some might consider to be in the modern day and age where we're very soft especially in the business
01:05:00
world toxic it worked for him and it was the only the only way he knew he knew how and
01:05:07
it's a lot of people may consider things toxic when they initially start out but
01:05:14
then when you see the end result or when your career is over with or when you're with a different organization you look
01:05:21
at it and say you know what i really miss that i give an example of flowers when you gift roses or your gifted roses or
01:05:31
any types of flowers they cut the thorns off because the thorns you know are prickly
01:05:39
and so forth well when you cut the thorns off a rose you decrease its lifespan so a lot of individuals that have been thorns in your life have actually allowed you to propel
01:05:53
to places that you would never be able to propel before and you don't miss it until this thorn
01:05:59
is not when that thorn is no longer there so when michael was constantly pushing his players getting them to l everybody knew he was not coming down to
01:06:11
their level he didn't expect everybody to come up to his level but he knew there was another level for each and for
01:06:19
each individual and he just wanted you to perform at the highest level and he wanted you to have
01:06:25
a taste of winning not just once but numerous times over and over again and he had to be genuine to who he who he was the one of the things that i talk about
01:06:39
in my other book relentless one of the 13 i said you know exactly who you are he knew exactly who he was he knew who he can communicate
01:06:49
with and say certain things and he knew when not to say certain things and have another individual talk to that person but when he spoke
01:07:02
everybody everybody listens they're if you watch practices everybody would come into the practice
01:07:08
and they'd be laughing and kind of joking and having a having a good time and so forth and as soon as
01:07:14
that whistle was blown silence and michael always said i practice so hard and we all need to practice so hard
01:07:26
so the games become easier do you think he used those thorns as well as a bit of a filter
01:07:32
in terms of filtering out the teammates that he didn't think were yes were good enough yes
01:07:37
i won't say they were good enough as one he that he could trust in certain situations trust me it was the the
01:07:43
thorns were more for trust how how can can i keep poking you oh how many times can i keep poking you and see are you going to come back are you going to come back what what what's
01:07:54
your adversity tolerance because there's going to be certain situations that can i trus can i trust you
01:08:02
can i trust you in that situation and if you look throughout his career there's very few people when the game was on the
01:08:08
line that he would trust to pass the ball to and say hey this is what's going to happen very very few and all those
01:08:16
individuals that he did that with at some point in their career stood up to him and challenged him isn't that interesting
01:08:28
it's almost a bit of a paradox the the fact that we trust those most and that's the
01:08:33
sounds from everything i've read like much of the reason why he trusted you was because he knew you had put truth at
01:08:40
the the front of everything you do and to be honest i think i've probably said this to my team before but the people that are a most valuable
01:08:47
um in my circle are those that are do you have a voice and are willing to give it to me despite my
01:08:54
um despite my success yeah those are the ones you want you want to keep around right you look yeah i definitely keep
01:09:00
those individuals definitely keep those individuals around i just it's too easy too many times we let people off the hook
01:09:13
i can't let an individual off the hook because it's too easy think about the time that you left you let somebody off
01:09:21
the hook how'd it turn out for you badly the first example that came to mind was someone who i hired to lead one of our countries for our for our company
01:09:33
and their behavior was not up to standard and i procrastinated on it for too long for for more than a year and it cost me every day when i say cost
01:09:44
i mean it was a seven figure cost to our company and eventually i had to make the decision that i should have made it at the start right i should have but for
01:09:51
some reason i was for reasons i now clearly understand i was avoiding the decision and letting the person off the
01:09:57
hook how many years ago was that um i think now it'd be four years ago all right if that same situation
01:10:04
happened now how quickly would you remember oh so fast all right so so quickly and i have subsequently and i
01:10:11
when i do respond in that way i recite that story right to the people around me i go four years ago this happened and
01:10:17
it's my single biggest regret in business because i procrastinated on making a decision i knew i had to make i let the person off the hook so this is
01:10:23
why today four years later we're making this decision as soon as we possibly can winning doesn't make you heartless
01:10:32
but it teaches you to use your heart less four years ago you were using your heart yeah now you'd use your heart you still have a
01:10:46
heart but you'd use it less and my brain more exactly yeah mind over feelings and when we're faced with those tough
01:10:59
decisions for me what i learned in hindsight is it felt like difficulty in the moment
01:11:04
that's why part of the reason i procrastinated on the decision but in hindsight it caused so much more
01:11:10
difficulty in the long term so it's really that like ballot the the wisdom i got from it
01:11:15
is you know a tough decision today or you can make the same decision but in a year's time when it becomes when the cost and the implications of the decision are even greater and it's had a time to drag you or pull you down
01:11:28
or to make you lose games whatever it might be or lose money in business and so that decisiveness and putting mind
01:11:33
over matter is something that i've definitely developed as a ceo one of the things you said which i found
01:11:39
really um thought-provoking and it kind of bucked the trend in chapter 12 of your book is
01:11:44
when someone says showing up is half the battle you're looking at an individual who is already losing the battle people
01:11:51
say that all the time showing up is half the battle showing up is none of the battle
01:11:57
you showed up i showed up were we supposed to not do the podcast and go have a drink showing up is none of the battle people want accolades and rewards for doing
01:12:10
things that they're supposed to do people want to get acknowledged for things that you're supposed you're supposed to show up you guys supposed to
01:12:17
practice you're supposed to perform you're supposed to get results no people people have a hard time understanding now the difference between feedback and criticism it's exactly the
01:12:28
same thing it's just how you hear it you in order to get anything anything in life and to get anywhere you must show up if you think showing up is winning
01:12:44
you've already you've already lost the battle you've already lost a battle people want to get a medal for doing the
01:12:50
for doing the easy things people show up every single day people show up every single day and are
01:12:56
dealing with circumstances that are beyond your imagination they still show up i i love to give examples to individuals that just happened
01:13:11
we're sitting in a completely different location of where this podcast was originally supposed to be done in
01:13:19
showing up and you were congratulating yourself first hey showing up is half the battle
01:13:24
you'd have been like oh well we showed up here we won he's like all right no we actually showed up and we got thrown out now we got to go show up somewhere else
01:13:36
and make this thing all work again and people come back and say oh you know what you showed up don't worry about it
01:13:42
you won that battle today no do you know that story so we landed in la and we got to the hotel and the
01:13:48
hotel um offered us how to fill us a certain room in the penthouse suite where we
01:13:54
felt we could replicate the aesthetic we need to make the show successful we're looking for somewhere where it feels like you are in my
01:14:00
because we've recorded the uk in my house sure so it needs to feel at home because of the nature of the conversation we're having it needs to be
01:14:07
details yeah right so we got to the hotel they're like well you can have you know the penthouse week there's one day
01:14:12
it's booked for so for three of the episodes the set will change and i was like we don't want that to change so they said
01:14:18
well there's a meeting room we'll give it to you completely free at the back we can't do it in a meeting room they showed us six or seven rooms they took
01:14:23
us around every room in the hotel no so although the podcast was two days away and we had 20 odd guests coming sure we as a team because again our religion is to care about the details
01:14:35
looked for somewhere else we went on viewing so we found this place insanely inexpensive place as you've
01:14:40
seen but uh but we we've always believed in those details we always believe it really matters and then jack and the
01:14:45
team and berta to their credit have built this whole entire set which nobody can see in in the next in the next 24 hours
01:14:52
running back and forth from target we don't have to do that but we because we've as you said earlier we've seen the
01:14:58
outcome of that suffering now and once you've tasted it you can't unsee it right you can't unsee it you just can't
01:15:05
you can't i you know people always said you know you know you can't you can't forget what you've seen you can't unlearn what you've learned
01:15:16
you just you get you can't you can you can you can't unlearn it you can learn from it and learn other things on top of
01:15:24
it but you're never going to unlearn those things you're never going to be able to unsee the things that that you
01:15:29
that you've seen and that's when people just don't under they just don't understand that they they can't they
01:15:36
can't see and understand your level of craziness they can't see your level of of obsession and then once you those things no longer matter for you
01:15:49
then you know it's time to move on to another endeavor which you've already have in your previous thing you know when you
01:15:55
when you talked earlier about relationships we talked about the relationships of those around you and how that can be impacted you we talked
01:16:02
about at the very start of this conversation about our dark sides one of the ways we sometimes see the
01:16:07
consequences of our dark sides is in our romantic relationships one of the ways we see the consequences of our
01:16:13
obsession is in our romantic relationships so tell me from a both a personal perspective as
01:16:18
tim the impact that your dark side and obsession and your desire to win and be great has had on your relationships and those that you've coached and you've worked
01:16:30
with from a personal standpoint i will say this winning will cost you everything but we'll reward you with so much more it's going to cost you everything
01:16:42
and i every decision i've made i knew what the consequences was i knew what the cost was going to be it may have not been at that particular
01:16:54
moment but i knew down the line if i go do this decision if i go work with this individual or i decide to do this now
01:17:01
somewhere down the line this is what it's this is what it's going to cost this is what it's going to cost me i
01:17:07
tell the story in the in the book where my daughter came up to me when i was when she was like five years old and says daddy why do you travel so much
01:17:21
and so i said sweetheart this is how i take care of the family this is how i provide for you it's how i take care of
01:17:26
mom this is how i put a roof over the head this is how i put food on the table she goes daddy if i eat less will you stay or more
01:17:40
at age five i was packing for a trip now if this was a fairy tale i'd unpack my bag i'd have grabbed her hand we'd have went out for ice cream
01:18:02
i kept packing now i'm not telling anybody out there that's a decision they should make but that was my decision
01:18:17
and then many years later i sat down my daughter and i said hey i want to talk to you
01:18:25
and i wanted to discuss with her why dad is the way he is and before i could even start she goes
01:18:32
dad i understand she goes i understand she was i could see what you provided for mom and i i could see the sacrifices you made
01:18:45
for us was it important for you to hear that yes very important and i just never knew when the right time was and then one day i just said this is the day
01:19:00
this is the day she goes you taught me how to make the toughest decisions in life
01:19:06
because not only taught me you showed me you told me how to be independent when to be dependent when to be independent
01:19:17
so sometimes when you think you're making the wrong decision or you have to making
01:19:22
the toughest decision because you're thinking about somebody else and the consequences
01:19:30
if you think the price of winning is too high wait till you get the bill from regret
01:19:43
and that bill from regret is generational and there's a lot of people listening to this that that bill has been passed on
01:19:53
from generation to generation and you are holding that bill right now and somebody
01:20:00
in some one of your generations has to pay that bill off in order for the generation to move on
01:20:12
and the only way that bill gets paid off is you got to be willing to make the hardest decisions the other side of that story is
01:20:23
i would often fly my family was in chicago i was doing work on the west coast so when she had a school play when she had a volleyball game
01:20:41
i would fly from the west coast land in chicago watch her performance for 45 minutes to an hour and get on the plane that same night and
01:20:53
be back for my client the next day and there was a lot of times where i didn't even get a chance to speak to her she just knew i was in the audience
01:21:04
because i had it was the only flight to get back those are the parts nobody remembers
01:21:11
everybody remembers one event you don't show up for and i guaranteed every individual who's one at multiple things who's been
01:21:22
successful at many things over and over again at some point in your career some point in your life you forgot a very important date you missed an event you just you just did
01:21:35
but nobody wants to talk about it because people are going to judge you on that one
01:21:41
thing tim thank you my pleasure honestly uh you've sent me on a you know my job is to sit
01:21:52
you're asking questions but my brain has been running for many many reasons i feel like i need to go and sit down upstairs and just reflect on a lot of
01:21:58
things you've said it's um speaking to you today was it will remain one of the biggest honors i've had on
01:22:04
this podcast because you're a very very um special proposition thank you we have
01:22:09
a closing tradition on this this podcast where we asked guests uh to leave a question for the next
01:22:15
guest and i don't get to see the question until i open the book so what is one mistake
01:22:21
you've made you've been scared to address or reconcile every mistake i've made i've reconciled i've owned up to it
01:22:34
whether they accept it or not people have asked me to apologize for things i shouldn't have apologized for
01:22:41
if people had to make a mistake i would say that would be one of the a lot a few times i apologize for things i should
01:22:47
have not apologized for thank you you're welcome we are all looking for ways to live a little bit more sustainably and to make more conscious choices in our day-to-day
01:22:58
routines so when a brand like my energy who i've spoken about before offered to sponsor this podcast i felt like and i
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knew deep down inside that i had to help them share their mission to create an even greener world it feels like there's
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not much more fulfilling than that and their products provide an easy and cost effective way to make a sustainable
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switch in your life and they've got some existing new products coming out that i can't wait to use myself and i'll let
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you know as i use those products how i get on so if you're a my energy customer at the moment let me know your favorite
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products down below in the comments section and if you haven't checked them out yet go to myenergy.com and find out
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myenergy.com is the place for you [Music] bye