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every night I crime yourself to sleep like nothing made me happy nothing
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what a fighter I believe I promise here to fight it was me father who taught me
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how to punch and at 12 13 years old that's a powerful tool to show a kid finding out that your brother was gay
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being a pivotal moment why from their mid-90s it wasn't cool to be gay and
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black that's when I'd say the fight and take sheep brutalize my body cannibalize my own
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body there's five nights that I've had that I can't remember anything that Shield you put up to help you to survive
00:00:39
I'm guessing it's not serving you value to hey nil one of the things I
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will never forget is the raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight you know people look at you and
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think you're a success story they look at the money you've got to look at the scenario and the setup you've got but ultimately are you happy
00:01:01
are you happy so without further Ado I'm Stephen
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Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this yourself
00:01:15
[Music]
00:01:22
Tony from reading your book and a lot of the things that you've said over the years
00:01:27
one of the things that really stood out to me because I think it's been front of mine because a few guests have said this to me over the last couple of weeks is I
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was a product of my environment and your early environment was waverty in Liverpool yeah
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take me back to that environment and tell me what it was about that environment that
00:01:44
shaped who you went on to be and who you are today I am a product of my environment and and
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I say that and the way I get to that is because it's no coincidence I'm a
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fighter I was just but I believe I'll put on this here to fight it's something that I enjoyed something that I like
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it's something that I'm not afraid of fighting doesn't it never scared me it
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never bothered me and I think that's a bit weird to be honest but it's just me I can't change who I am
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and uh the environment I was raised in definitely helped producer you know from
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being a kid at the age of 10 me old man leaves home he's gone and then at that age me
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little brother at that age is about six or seven me two Elder Brothers one I'd
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moved out and the other one was on the verge of finishing school so the Elder one who finishes school
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then goes on to further education he goes to University so we keep moving on over a few years
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and then once I hit 13 14 it's quite apparently younger
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brother's gay and then that's when I'd say the fight and take shape and things
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take shape so so you said your dad left home when you were 10. yep how come
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yeah to the top and bottom of it yeah and got caught basically a fantastic
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father but you know it was carrying on broke my mum's ass and was gone yeah so
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a product of most men to be honest but uh that was the reason me that was gone
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so he was carrying on he had an affair with some Scot bag of a woman who knew
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he was married with four kids and yeah he just he let us the thing in
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between in his pants rule his head and a thing that he regrets every single day for the rest of his life which he
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constantly tells me and those but these are the mistakes men make what impact did that have on your mother
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at the time I was heartbreaking absolutely heartbreaking it's a kid growing up it's not nice meat watching
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your mother cry herself to sleep at night and the other things that go on in life
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is heartbreaking very very tough and you'd only understand out of it is when you look back as an older is a grown ass
00:04:01
man you realize how tough and hard it really is so heartbreaking yeah
00:04:06
getting to see the impact of like infidelity in your own home has impacted what you're like as a man with your
00:04:13
oh that's deep I've never been asked to questions like this but it's all good yes it does add a life where a Charming
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best to learn from others mistakes and not just my own so
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I would never ever in a million years have an affair ain't nothing just not going on not a chance
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things sit with me and I'll say I try my best to learn from other people's mistakes but yeah growing up in that
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period at the time and that part of my life was very very difficult and you just you have to learn to adapt
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so then at that stage yeah how your home's broken and my friends then become me family me
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closest friends that the five or six was like all go to school together they become my best friends and they become me brothers from there running and you
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learn to cope with life and do things just cause me that don't worry don't he didn't detract anything from as a father
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he was a brilliant father he's being my greatest supporter since the day I was born I'm as Shannon like he believes in
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me like no one else could ever believe in me like he adores me I know he does and I adore them I would do anything for
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me father but yeah them them years when he's gone very very difficult especially when he goes to prison as well so that's
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hard as well you mentioned um you're finding out that
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your brother was gay being a pivotal moment why we always had the other other
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conscious thought that he was because me Builder's gay he's he's not he's not like yes hi the way you hear my
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brother before you see him you know he's out there he really is so we knew it
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quite early on but as I say as time goes on and you see the environment that he's raised up and he's constantly around
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women and and yeah he just adapts and we see where it's going but
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as a family we understand that now we get him I love means my little brother but then for the outside world it
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doesn't go down well yeah in the air in the mid 90s it wasn't cool to be gay and
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black like maybe just darker than me so he's the same shade as you uh our Liam
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and that just didn't go down well yeah licked on in school regularly in the
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Junior School it's not too bad it's okay because it's kind of just looked at us being loud and you're out there when you
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start getting towards senior School level it's like oh okay he's gay and then that comes at problems and
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headaches and when you've raised in waverty being a kid growing up I think I seen
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one gay man one gay black man his name was Skippy no one would mess with him because he was like six foot three and
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his name was escaping he would [ __ ] around the normal swim will just leave him alone because anyone who did try mastering me he was going to smack them
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but my little brother wasn't that way inclined at that age he's not smacking no one he'd just take a slap or whatever
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so I couldn't allow that to happen though anyone who would slap Jim I would step to them and it would always be me
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when every single time so you find yourself defending him a lot because lots of times lots of times I
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mean the amount of times I'd have to go up to the school remember being a kid Taking Me Mum's Car she was away she was
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on holiday and I got a phone call saying your brother's been threatened to be beat up
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from after school or some kid threatened them so at this time I think I was 16 took my mum's car which I shouldn't have
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done uh went and got my little brother and
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the moment I think I smug someone to school or the other was waiting for him I'd give them a good beating driving
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back home after the young crash my mum's car really yeah and then for the other ones ever did that story yeah crashed
00:07:46
the moon's car into a taxi and then and then set off running for a couple of weeks so yeah for a couple of weeks yeah
00:07:52
I was gone for a couple of weeks back in the day so yeah you could just go missing in them days and uh the emu's
00:07:58
car was classed has been stolen and stuff like that so yeah lots of crazy things I've done and and experienced in
00:08:05
my life but yeah that's the first time I've actually spoke about that side so you're the first world done you've
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dragged something up here something new oh yeah I'm just so genuinely curious because much of my
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the reasoning behind my questioning is to really try and understand how someone came to be who they are today and all of these like threads through your life of
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like the absence of your father which creates this void where you almost become the man of the house and then you've got this thing you need to defend
00:08:28
in your brother and and even the race thing I find really interesting because your mother is the same skin tone as me roughly isn't she yeah maybe a bit
00:08:34
darker yeah similar to you yes but you you're like you're significantly lighter than me yes so having a mother who is
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can I I'm guessing could considers herself to be a black woman she's black yeah yeah and growing up in that
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environment where there wasn't a huge a huge amount of black people did you find yours I was wondering this when
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I was reading about your story did you find yourself almost like a little bit like identifying with that Community
00:09:00
while also not being considered part of it by do you know what I mean yeah of course so you're not blocking up for the
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brothers and you're not wise enough for the white people so yeah I've got that since I was a kid but it doesn't bother
00:09:12
me in the slightest it it did growing up because you're trying to think who would relate to what they relate to avoids
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just being a decent person I try and do the right thing I've done enough bad things in my life to
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to know that I'm a good person if that makes sense so yeah after
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race color creed it doesn't really bother me you know the good or you're bad but yeah it's not hard for us I've
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always wondered what it must have been like my mother growing up because that must have been very
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difficult especially for you know I I know it was difficult for me mother and father to be together when they first
00:09:48
got together because my father's coming into a period at the time where the chocolate right to happen and for a
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white man with you know a black woman and black kids and stuff it you know he's had this
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fights regarding that as well but for me mother must have been horrific at times must have really been hard so
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she's strong she's a strong woman and she she can get through anything
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I saw that like my mom obviously my dad's white my mum's from Nigeria so okay my mum we moved to Cornwall right
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where everyone's white when I'm like one or two years old and my mum she just constantly get like struggled with it
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her car being burnt by people by people locally Shop's been broken into everything and she she really built a a
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huge amount of I don't know anger and resentment towards people which I'm really happy I didn't carry with me but
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you know at that age even I had racism yeah a lot of racism on the playground and stuff like that and being someone
00:10:43
who wouldn't necessarily be a target of that racism yeah but would be could identify with the community because your
00:10:50
mother's black was that ever like a a thing where you would hear people would have the guts to be racist around you
00:10:56
but they but because they wouldn't think you'd be offended by it but did you almost give you advice on how to get
00:11:02
through that or never just working out no never I mean I got a few I'm probably the only significant fights I ever got
00:11:09
in with someone calling me the n-word in school yeah and I was the only black chemical like there was an obviously
00:11:15
Cornwall like yeah night night too um that was those were the only fights I ever got into and I didn't really know
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what it meant I didn't even know I was black until someone called me them which I mean it was yeah so but did you get
00:11:26
some advice on that was no I wasn't given advice I just found myself I used to build a bit of a protective wall around myself so I would let people know
00:11:33
I was half black within literally the first couple of minutes of meeting them so that way it would Shield them from
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saying because if someone says a race is coming in front of me I'm gonna smack you or I'm gonna do something so I'm
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gonna bought you a smack here I'm gonna give you a piece of me man I'm gonna do something so I I find myself like meeting people
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not be like yes I'm mixed race so yeah my mom's blocked me that's white and and some of them used to look at me just to
00:11:58
say why is he telling us that and I think because I just don't want to hear the comments that I'm used to hearing of this word that word I've heard them on
00:12:05
my life and people would make smart-ass jokes and this the you know degrade black people
00:12:11
or whether it would be I've had every single word and phrase you can possibly imagine and and I would and I would only
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hear them because they were undertone racism it would be said because they thought I was white yeah yeah and that
00:12:22
was the most frustrating part so then I felt myself letting people know look I'm not white
00:12:27
I'm not black and I'm not white but I'm I'm just me but yeah that let people
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know what I was pretty much straight away because if I hear that undertone or I hear that slight comments or dig
00:12:41
I'm gonna respond unless it's a woman and a couple of times I've had to let that go and it's been women who've made
00:12:47
undertone comments only once I think I took her up with a woman because I was working in the sports Centerville city
00:12:52
council and a woman yeah I said the M with and I was furious and I just
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started to give it a piece of my mind and I called it every slot and sweat you can go on and uh yeah and I actually
00:13:03
lost my job for that yeah because yeah Santa once if I was she just denied she
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said it but I was like you know I'm such a quiet not quiet but I'm such a I treat
00:13:14
people Everyone with respect everyone and meet it doesn't matter whether you can be anything in life I'm not better than anyone whether it's a [ __ ] big
00:13:20
man on the street whether they're tough one I was a lifeguard whether it's a it's someone who's begging on the seat I am no better than them but believe you
00:13:27
me they're not better than me you shouldn't disrespect anyone so yeah I gave it a piece of Mind lost me job and
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that was the end of that you learn to deal with moments like that and as I say in the environment I'm raised in
00:13:38
I've found a way of shielding myself protecting myself and then also uh my
00:13:44
actions and I'll speak louder than me words because of what I've what I've done with my career when I sat here with Eddie Hearn um it
00:13:51
became really Tran uh apparent that many of the successful people I meet
00:13:56
start with this kind of innate desire to please a parent Eddie's one of them right he kind of lived in Barry hands
00:14:03
Shadow you've spoke a lot of people wow but he was he was when I was reading
00:14:10
your story I saw the same thing you had this real strong desire to impress your father I'm wondering why why because
00:14:17
he's my dad and I adore me that I love him yeah not everyone has that though yeah
00:14:24
because not everyone has a father and I'm very fortunate that I do yet he might not have been living at home from the age of 10 but he's still my father
00:14:30
and he still loves me and adores me I know he does my dad will do anything for his kids he would literally die for all of his
00:14:37
children and and that was passed over to me I think that's why I adore me kids so much
00:14:44
but I always wanted to impress him why dad
00:14:51
so yeah he is me the other one I want to apart he wants to impress him and a part
00:14:58
of me wants to do more than he's done do better I wanna I wanna I wanna
00:15:03
impress them but I also wanna Go fail than where he's gone and yeah I
00:15:09
was lucky enough for fortunes not to be able to do it especially I mean my dad was a hard mommy my dad can fight you
00:15:15
know really really fight but he tried the boxing didn't stick at it
00:15:21
didn't go right and it didn't go right because not because he's not hard enough for Tough Enough Just because he's
00:15:26
mentally he can't stick with it he can't take someone jabbing the face off him because you know he goes Nazi attacks
00:15:32
him with a stool in the second fight uh he's got a wicked temper you would never
00:15:38
know that as as his children but I've seen it literally because I've worked on nightclub those of them I've strapped up
00:15:44
a bulletproof vest at the age of 19 but and we've been working side by side working on nightclub so as a young kid I
00:15:50
just wanted to be like him so when I realized what my dad was he was a he owned the night club security company
00:15:55
and he ran them doors brilliantly you know the nightlife in our city was fantastic
00:16:01
we had the best club in the city people still talk about today it was called society and the the policy was three to
00:16:09
one with women to men though you can possibly imagine the trouble that would cause and what we would get from the outside in uh
00:16:17
and we created an environment and a place that was unbelievable and I've watched my dad go through so many
00:16:23
problems and fights and things like that whether he's been threatened to be shot as house blown up ran over shot stabbed
00:16:30
every possible thing you can imagine jailed twice so yeah I just wanted to impress him so
00:16:36
the first step was working on the door with him well now the first step was going into the boxing gym that was the first step
00:16:42
once I found out he that he couldn't progress any further boxing I thought okay I'll show you how I can I'll have a
00:16:49
go and it started off as just a bit of a macho thing I'll show you this I'll show you that because ultimately I didn't
00:16:54
really want a box I wanted to play football I don't have a football club and I wanted to be a professional footballer but that's just a pipe dream
00:17:01
but at the ages of 12 to 16 you think you can do it and I was a big believer
00:17:07
in my own beliefs so I thought if I work hard then if I can do I've always synchronized working hard with getting
00:17:13
to the end goal I'll get there no matter how hard it is or how big the task looks if I work hard enough I'll get there but
00:17:19
that just wasn't the case with football unlucky for me yeah but with boxing I always watched it with my dad from
00:17:26
afar I wasn't its biggest fan but I studied and watched because I was intrigued by and then upon finding out
00:17:32
my dad couldn't stick I didn't do it I thought okay I'll have a go with this and I was just insanely
00:17:39
good luck punching people and that was from an early age I knew just straight away he took me on pads I kickboxed the
00:17:45
first got to a good level at that good standard and then knocked a couple of
00:17:51
upons over punches in the face but I was only a kid at this age that shouldn't happen dropped one and flattened the
00:17:57
other one uh got disqualified for both contests because it was supposed to be semi contact supposed to tap each other
00:18:02
for the point and then point for you you go away let's fight again point for you and you get to like 11 points and you've won I think it was 11 points
00:18:09
and uh it was like oh you can't do this and at
00:18:14
this stage it was me father who taught me how to punch he showed me the correct way if I was tearing you fist over I was exchanger by the way from then the full
00:18:21
to the end of your fist and at 12 13 years old that's a powerful tool to show a kid but I've seen how proud he was the
00:18:27
minister knocked them kids out of the kickboxing even though I got disqualified and lost I knocked these kids out with punches
00:18:33
and he was extremely proud and I was like oh this is the way forward and and
00:18:38
even though I didn't know that then mentally and subconsciously I've took that on board
00:18:44
seeing how much he's praised me said how much he's give me for doing it and I thought that's the way so I keep
00:18:51
flitting and I'm messing around with that thought and then ultimately I end up in a boxing gym basically trying to
00:18:57
impress me that I'm not gonna lie that's the that was the first reasons for going into a boxing gym and amateur boxing gym
00:19:03
and doing first time before that was born first
00:19:09
time before you were born and then the second time when you were roughly around
00:19:16
I think I was 14 15 14 14 15 Yes somewhere there were thereabouts I'll
00:19:22
have to go back in the years but around roughly that age what's that like when you find out that your father someone you you admire so much is going to this
00:19:30
place called jail where he's going to be locked that's tough
00:19:38
I agreed with everything he don't so at this age now it's right so someone stole
00:19:43
his money so meet at this stage meet Dad owns a puppy he's I say he's running a security firm he's got a pub on the side
00:19:50
he's got his other job with deprivation he's got so many things going on this Pub
00:19:56
uh I think the guy stole 10 000 pounds off the safe the manager he was employing to manage
00:20:02
took ten thousand pound off the safe and went running with his money so uh me father
00:20:08
pick them up
00:20:13
found this home and demanded this money back and the that that was told and no so it
00:20:21
makes another phone call leaves a voicemail unbelievable leaves a voicemail of what will happen if he
00:20:27
doesn't get his ten thousand pounds and that voicemail sends him to prison so yeah
00:20:33
if someone stole ten thousand pounds from me I'm not leaving a voicemail like but you know I mean you know no one's
00:20:39
taking me kids money so and I know I get these these things from him so you know
00:20:46
no one can steal from me and take your child's money because I don't look at my money as being my money anymore I look at it to the kids
00:20:52
and and I'm pretty sure that's how he looked it is so yeah he done what he'd done and then
00:20:58
he goes off and I go and visit him and then that's when I think another pivotal moment in my life going to visit me dad
00:21:04
in the big house is is very very tough but sticks with me once again it's a part of me life whether things to myself
00:21:10
wow I can never come here he tells me the most important one of the most important phrases he ever told me in life I'm sitting with him
00:21:17
and I'm on a visit in order this partner who takes me up to the visit he takes me
00:21:22
there and he says to me you see a lot of people glorify jail you see Lads and then like
00:21:29
I've done jail I've done this I've done that my father was the only person I seen say what he said to me and I've never
00:21:35
seen it said since I've got friends who are in jail I've grown up with Lads from jail and stuff like that so and he says
00:21:41
to me son don't ever come here and I said I'm not gonna do so could you see this place it's the house of failure
00:21:48
everyone in his failed there's no winners in here there's no great people in there if you're any you've failed
00:21:54
and it sat with me forever just it's always sat with me so there's various things that I've done that I'm
00:22:01
not proud of there's various things that if I would have been call forward I would have been in jail but it didn't uh
00:22:08
and at the same time I'm very grateful for the words that he said because he stuck with me forever
00:22:13
I actually have got friends do in life I've seen friends you
00:22:19
know being in jail for longest periods of time I've visited from recently
00:22:24
and uh and we speak to him and I told him the phrase my dad said and this this friend the man has done hasn't done a
00:22:31
long time in jail and he said to me your dad was spot on and he's sitting there he's been nearly
00:22:37
16 years he's getting old soon and that's what he said to me he said you'd have the spots on he couldn't be he
00:22:43
couldn't be any more truthful and couldn't be phrased any better if you're in jail you've failed
00:22:49
so no one should glorify jail no one should put a badge of honor on it there's nothing glorious about sitting
00:22:54
in the prison cell nothing at all so but I'm not stupid enough to think that that couldn't have been me Could Have Been Me
00:23:00
with the cards and dealt with could have very very easily been me I'm just very fortunate that didn't happen to me
00:23:06
when you amateur boxing career starts are you still being tempted by those kind of
00:23:13
Temptations you talk a little bit about that in here yeah Street Life Street Life yeah definitely because there's no
00:23:18
other way to end I've got no qualifications I've been expelled from school for fighting right yep for fighting for smashing someone's face in
00:23:25
but while he was stabbing me in the head of a compass so yeah it's uh but these are this is
00:23:30
the life that you know you just it's not it's looked at as normal I know when you look back now it's frightening to think
00:23:36
that like if someone stabbed my son had to accomplish wow it's truly frightening but it it didn't detail me or bother me
00:23:43
at all crazy I had walked or two and watched them hold the compass and I knew I only
00:23:49
had fists but I didn't it didn't intimidate me didn't scare me and yeah
00:23:54
when you get explored from school at 15 what do you think you're going to become in your life is it we still thinking you might well at 15 you what's the Hope
00:24:01
yeah this one said what you're going to be when you grow up what would the response have been at 15 after getting kicked out locked up
00:24:08
you thought that's what help was going to play off you yeah because I know I wanted nice things at that at the age of 15 16 I always know I wanted nicer
00:24:15
things and I just at that stage especially being exposed from school I had no idea
00:24:20
I was going to get them why did you want nice things why was that simple because I read throughout your story about these nice things I
00:24:27
just want nice things you just want so the nice things that I looked at was like as a kid the only way I can't believe I
00:24:33
weighed so I've got a gold chain I bought this chain now the only reason I have this is because I wanted that as a
00:24:38
child and I've never grown up it's the one thing I once I thought like if I can get that I've cracked it I don't wear a
00:24:44
chain out on me I'll meet up and show this and all that that's not me now but as a kid growing up I thought that was
00:24:50
going to be me the chain out and the cross and the Downs you know you've grown up in similar environments and
00:24:55
that's what you want but I get it because in my mind I think I got the things I wanted but I've worked hard and
00:25:02
I've done it the right way thinking I'll do it the wrong way as
00:25:07
well and and that that that's once again where the touch upon being a product of your environment because everybody else
00:25:12
is doing it anybody else who had nice things where I'm from everyone was selling drugs there's no other way to get nice things no one where I'm from I
00:25:19
I didn't ever see a doctor where I'm from I didn't see a solicitor when I mean the first time I found out what a
00:25:24
solicitor was it was because a lot he crashed into our bus on our way to school my mother took me to meet him
00:25:31
was it's not so crazy it tells you so much about what's wrong with yes Society
00:25:36
Society right High School Netherland School in
00:25:41
Liverpool I know where it is but I didn't live anywhere I went to a place called chill water comp I went undercover in litherland as a teacher
00:25:47
did you read a TV show so little in school that's a prominently white area yeah yeah it's the North End is it a
00:25:55
referee because it felt it's not it's enough it's actually nice really it's a nice part of the Liverpool you would say litherlands really nice really yeah
00:26:03
that's really really they were like the lowest ranked on offset or whatever but I remember a kid there in the school
00:26:08
Steve I went to his house but Brown when he thinks I'm a teacher and he goes he goes he goes I think I want to be a
00:26:14
millionaire when I grow up but there's just no millionaires around here I've never met any and um he goes he goes
00:26:19
it's hard to be something that you can't see and I always remember him saying that and again that speaks to much of the
00:26:26
problem in society where those kids don't have Role Models so they can only aspire to and we it's a big part of the
00:26:33
show we did the what do they call it the networks of people getting young kids from schools to deal drugs
00:26:38
bloody name of it but so what ends up happening is these adults from out of town message these kids from Liverpool
00:26:44
on Instagram and say listen you can make some like 50 Quid if you just move these drugs for me and then they end up going
00:26:50
through that path which the cycle of deprivation yeah and that's
00:26:55
how it starts but you you also have to understand that in them areas like I've just touched on no one was coming from
00:27:01
my area and was going to be like it's only since I've grown up and I've realized so three of us got
00:27:08
expelled from school there was me tinker and Walker three of us are permanently expelled uh now them three people the
00:27:15
meeting can walk out Tinker is one of the lead professors in Leeds University to expel the same as me
00:27:21
walks is one of the best journalists in the whole of the country for sports boy knows
00:27:28
everything about football boxing the only reason he knows everything about boxing is because the dope didn't like the fact that anymore about boxing them
00:27:34
so he starts to study the unboxing which is insane uh and then there's me and we're we're I say with best friends who
00:27:40
grew up then there was Neil there was danzy he was a footballer he was set out from the start he's amazing is always
00:27:46
going to be a football he was just unbelievably gifted so between the four of us there
00:27:51
growing up within two miles of each other no one from them areas I'd ever seen
00:27:57
before or heard of before me I'd ever come a professor an amazing journalist
00:28:04
professional footballer and then a professional fighter World Champion and we were Four Lads who all went to school
00:28:10
together the closest of friends and that that that's just thought out about the eight of us uh
00:28:17
the others have good jobs and stuff like that and they've cracked on without just finding they'll figure out the way in life but yeah that that wasn't available
00:28:24
to us as kids because as I say if I could tell you what that Professor was doing now as 15 you wouldn't believe
00:28:31
me if I could tell you what the 16 year old was doing and what was going on as the jailent you wouldn't believe it it's
00:28:37
only the football allows was I could say he was the he was the the goal we all
00:28:42
aspire to be as kids because he was so driven Neil was just he'd worked so hard when every spare minutes he got he was
00:28:49
kicking a ball against the wall uh he was training he was working he was playing for Liverpool he was just unbelievably gifted and but worked so
00:28:57
hard with the talent that He had whereas others didn't and I'd say for me growing up it was like everyone who had nice
00:29:03
things was selling drugs and that's all you could really see because if I had the seen a footballer
00:29:09
from where I'm from if I had a scene a professional world champion boxer or another scene I really educated in your
00:29:17
man living where I was then I I might have thought I can do that but you don't you just don't see so I go to schools to
00:29:24
these sometimes now and I try and talk to these kids and explain to them I don't feel comfortable going to places so I got invited to Oxford and Cambridge
00:29:32
and I didn't go I said no and I just said I don't feel what am I going to say to people who've Got Brains the Pat the
00:29:38
size of this and they were like that do you understand that's not about it's what you've tapped into up here yourself
00:29:44
to make work for you I said yeah but I can't I'm not comfortable going on so I'm not going but I can walk into any
00:29:50
school where I'm from and have a chat to them kids because I am them kids I've been where they've been I can relate to
00:29:55
them and I just need to get across to them so I do that now with the program then do with the weapons down gloves up
00:30:00
and certain amount of it's in the book But ultimately it's just a it's hard to
00:30:07
get across to the kids in the areas that I'm from it really is because there is no way out and I understand there's nowhere else I was there I was where you
00:30:13
once was with no way out with no hope no job Jack spelled from school and you just
00:30:19
think what am I gonna do so yeah it's tough difficult we talked a little bit about your father
00:30:25
there the other um man in your life that you referred to as being a father figure is in chapter two which is Jimmy yes who is the guy
00:30:32
who is your I believe your amateur coach yes he was you know it's so blatantly
00:30:37
obvious from reading chapter two that he had a profound influence on you definitely in the short space on time I
00:30:44
was around them and with them I just I got him and the very first time I met him I thought I was never gonna work so
00:30:51
the very first time I met him he he basically just shook me off and thought I'm not gonna he obviously seen the town
00:30:58
so I walked in before I actually had an amateur about I walked in there was on the ABC and I started punching a bag this had
00:31:05
been the second gym I tried out so I went in this gym and they punched a
00:31:10
bag and he comes have you ever boxed before I said no I've never boxed he said don't tell lies he said how many belts have you had I said I've never had
00:31:16
a bout in my life he said kids who have never had the boat don't hit a bag like you how many bolts have you had to set
00:31:22
up had no boats I said but when can I have about to that smart ass comment from me he
00:31:28
replied you don't tell me boy when you're gonna box I tell you he had about 12 to 18 months and I was like okay yeah
00:31:35
walked on the gym and never came back I went and went straight to a place called Stockbridge JBC that's a guy called Mark
00:31:40
any six weeks later I have my first damage about and they're all hell but exclusion I just think that I'm I'm the
00:31:47
wave a cheese version of Mike Tyson I'm smashing people you have to understand when you first have amateur boats very
00:31:53
very very you'll see a stoppage my first three amateur fights all London fair in knockout wins and you you just don't see
00:32:01
that usually a lot of amateur Fighters lose the first fight through nerves and anxiety and just being petrified it's
00:32:07
normal I've only ever been nervous for two fights in my whole entire life the very first ever that much advice I had
00:32:12
and then go to some Park so I've never been nervous for any other fight fighting doesn't bother me I I enjoy
00:32:19
like I said before so I guess the points I get disqualified to meet temper flares in one in the last
00:32:25
spell to have a stock with JBC guy spit to me face I bought him as hard as I can in the middle of the face referee throws me out
00:32:30
and then go back to rotunda this time I've now had four or five belts four boats I go back
00:32:39
to the tournament table between my legs and go back to Jimmy Albertina after him telling me it's gonna be 12 18 months this guy now knows who I am he's seeing
00:32:46
me box he's seen me fight and he's identified me as a talent I didn't know that I'm only told that later on in life
00:32:52
because he would never ever gave me an answer because of this he never once praised me not to me face anyway it was
00:32:57
only upon him dying that I found out that he thought I was going to be a champion song which is crazy to think that he
00:33:03
could see that because I couldn't see at that stage but being with him and spending time with him
00:33:09
he may be believing him so much and a part of it was because he pushed me to
00:33:14
the levels of work rate that I'd never seen before that I never thought I was capable of but how hard we worked in that gym under this choose a lodge was
00:33:21
as hard as any day that I've had as a professional it was really tough he would Demand only the best from you and
00:33:28
I don't know how he's seen the things he's seen but he did the cat was a genius it was unbelievable so yeah
00:33:34
losing him was a was the first real loss ever had in my life I've had lost at this stage
00:33:41
I think I've lost I definitely lost my uncle at that stage which was a bit heartbreaking it was me
00:33:47
Dad's previous partner in the business and lose my Uncle Jimmy was hard but I could deal with it it was
00:33:54
a progression he got cancer and he got slowly slowly died and went away so that was a bit hard to lose him but uh the
00:34:01
first real tragic lost her address Jimmy that was hard grief is the worst feel in
00:34:07
the world it's the worst thing ever do you remember where you were when you got that call yep Paul Smith phoned me I was
00:34:12
a Paul phone me and I was just sitting
00:34:18
there and he's and and he was sobbing on the phone and said whoa what's wrong where are you and he was just can't he
00:34:24
was crying on the phone I couldn't understand what he was saying and then I got the last word he said Jimmy's dead I
00:34:29
said don't be stupid I was with him two days ago because he Jimmy had a quadruple bypass and uh
00:34:36
he gets the quadruple bypass and he just comes back too soon he starts training again he had a bevy and
00:34:42
like pizza and food Jimmy was just a proper man's man uh and yet he came back too soon so when Paul phones me and
00:34:49
tells me that Jimmy's gone I just couldn't believe it remember just breaking down crying taking another card
00:34:54
again with no license and driving straight to the gym the top Jimmy gave me I'm sitting at the gym just crying
00:35:01
and crying thinking what are we gonna do and and as selfish as I am thinking
00:35:07
what's going to happen to me career because at that stage then being with Jimmy I then knew I was going to be a
00:35:13
fighter forever once once I had two or three boats and when we first national championships and Jimmy was in my corner
00:35:19
I fight in the under 10 novice finals I fight against the guy with the surname Mohammed he wins the semi-final 10 nil I
00:35:26
go in and knock him unconscious six seconds in the final so when we first have a national title and under 10 novice title cleaned them out in six
00:35:33
seconds still a record of the record isn't it still a record to this day and uh
00:35:39
yeah it's at that point then I'm gonna make me I'm gonna I'm gonna make it as a
00:35:44
fighter after that National final Victory and I remember running back the corners of Jimmy and jumping on the
00:35:51
ropes and saying I am the [ __ ] best fighter you lot will ever see nails and not only Sports entered in Leeds telling
00:35:57
everyone I am the king of the world I am the best ever now this is just so embarrassing when I look back this is a
00:36:02
guy who was in his 10th amateur fight uh and I was telling people I'm going to be
00:36:09
a world champion and they were and they must have been like what's going on Getz jumps down from the a guy I've just
00:36:15
rendered unconscious and he's still asleep I've jumped down off his corner of the ropes after scream my head off I walk back to me corner and I said to
00:36:21
Jimmy Jimmy how good was that it's amazing wasn't it and he just looked a man's [ __ ] shite
00:36:27
I thought just knock someone out six seconds and his response was
00:36:33
loan build he turns away to the other coach and just goes just as a face with a little thumb up I
00:36:40
didn't see that once again you'd have to look back on the video and see him do it uh he never gave me praise but then from
00:36:46
what he told other people like Jimmy when Jimmy Daddy got carried by six of us
00:36:53
past champions phones present Champions Paul Smith and Mick
00:36:59
and future Champions who regardless the future of the gym myself and Paul uh and
00:37:05
I was a future one better man I'd only been around with the stage for two years was going to be a future Champion so for
00:37:12
them to to predict that and say unbelievable he'll stick with me forever I have a name tattooed on my arm
00:37:19
yeah so all my tattoos means something so yeah it's a
00:37:24
miss him every single day not many days go by where I don't think of them yeah I'm close with his family and I love his
00:37:31
lovely wife Benny and his kids Michael and James and lovely family they've now
00:37:37
got kids and Jimmy's affected so many people's lives massive massive parts of mine I will never ever forget him and I
00:37:43
will never let his name go you know when I whatever I am I will always take his name with me
00:37:49
and then you go in and do exactly that what what um Jimmy predicted you would do yeah which is crazy I think
00:37:56
when an ABA title but I won three of them I don't know if he predicted three I went through the ABA titles a boxing
00:38:01
country go all around the world I have amazing success as an amateur bearing man that I've not got the style to be a
00:38:08
good amateur boxer my style was to run the people unconscious I've never got an unboxing ring and wanted to beat someone
00:38:13
on points ever well that's a lie one time I did I got in the ring against a
00:38:18
guy called Danny price and I really liked Danny I didn't want to hear something the only time I've ever got into a fight I didn't want to hurt
00:38:24
someone yeah Anya one and then I just I'd never
00:38:30
amateur boxing is about skill and class and it's it's a
00:38:36
proper sport professional boxing is a brutal horrible business it's not a
00:38:41
sport it's literally a way of life you don't live professional boxing the way it needs to be lived you will get found
00:38:47
out every single time and it will leave you in a bad way amateur boxing was a beautiful sport I was part of a team I
00:38:54
was in the Thunder ABC I had great amazing team made out of amazing coaches understand that these cultures in these
00:39:00
amateur gyms they aren't there for money because there's no money for them they're there for the love of the sport and to help kids that gym has saved more
00:39:08
lives than anyone I've ever been in my life every boxing gym does amateur gym and people use this and use the phase oh
00:39:14
this thing saves life it literally does it save mine it saved numerous Lads I
00:39:19
know when that Jim's lives there's numerous lives there who have been to jail uh numerous slots who have been there who
00:39:26
have been shot stabbed I've shot and stabbed people uh and it's and that
00:39:31
boxing gym has kept them on the street now like there was there's so many wars that have gone on in and around that gym
00:39:37
but when you went in that gym that was the safest place in the world because no one would come and knock him and do anything to anyone because that was the
00:39:42
safety ads when you went in the boxing gym and that was because of the respect you had for someone like Jimmy and that's what he demands that's what
00:39:49
saves areas it's literally you're policing your own neighborhood something that has completely gone into
00:39:55
these environments no one cares no more like there is no hierarchy within a criminal environment there is no
00:40:01
hierarchy on the street no more because every kid is out for himself they do not care that boxing gym demands respect and
00:40:08
no matter who you are or what you've got you give that respect to that boxing gym so Jimmy was a massive massive part of
00:40:15
that yeah and yeah we were very fortunate as all of us to have them without a meeting would have changed so
00:40:21
many that fights his lives in that place and in that Community as well I don't it's not an understatement when I say
00:40:26
save lives he literally did you said that the coaches that aren't
00:40:32
there to make money but a lot of the fighters don't ever make good money unless they get up up near the top of the sport right and I was I was actually
00:40:39
really surprised to hear in one of the conversations you had where you said you hadn't even become a millionaire until pretty late into your career yeah I've
00:40:45
become a millionaire until I become followed up called David day yeah when you think about what you're doing for a living you you smashing your head up
00:40:52
you're smashing other people's faces up yeah and it wasn't until you fought David Haye which was in 2017 right
00:40:58
correct where you you became a millionaire I remember that fight so clearly I think suspicion I stayed up
00:41:05
front I don't know I think I stayed up for it but must have been somewhere in the world but I remember watching that fight so clearly and how it played out I
00:41:10
remember every round and the twists and turns and the emotions surrounding it all that was madness madness crazy yeah
00:41:19
basically being fighting as a professional Army life at that stage as both been fighting as a boxer Army life and
00:41:25
bear in mind when I go into the engage David hey I'm British Commonwealth
00:41:30
European world champion I've achieved everything could possibly come with in boxing I'm still not a millionaire I'm
00:41:36
topping bills I've thwarted the evidence football stadium gooderson Park have defended my world title at the echo
00:41:42
rioska you know I've sold out multiple venues at this point I've fought on Sky
00:41:48
Box Office multiple times at this stage and it wasn't because you were spunking your money at all you were blowing your
00:41:53
money wise with me money I was I was at this stage after I've won the world title until before I fight David Haye I I Don't Own
00:42:01
Me house out right yeah I've got property one property that a
00:42:06
rent helped me first house after that I've got the second property that I've got a mortgage on
00:42:12
that's all I have to be name at that stage in life why how does that happen because that's
00:42:17
boxing for you is it boxing yeah yeah really that's boxing for you that's professional fighting unless you team
00:42:23
professional with a gold medal there ain't no money at the start and you've got a bank how good do you really
00:42:28
believe you are how much do you really believe in yourself because you've got to back yourself all the way so you know after five professional
00:42:35
fights it may hand me left hand foreign so I'll get an operation on and off the
00:42:42
best sage in the world his name is Mike Hayton and I didn't even have enough money to pay for the operation
00:42:48
because I fought in the December I snapped me handing off me me middle
00:42:54
knuckle here this snaps in half and then I spend all of the six thousand pound that I've just earned to give the kids
00:43:01
the best Christmas they can possibly have on January the 11th I'm skinned I haven't got a single penny in the bank
00:43:07
I've got a mortgage to pay I've got kids to provide for
00:43:12
but everyone thinks from the outside I'm this board and professional and I've got loads of money because I've got a new
00:43:18
car and whatever have you and at this stage I'm still living in my Terrace House in Old swan in Liverpool but from
00:43:24
the outside looking inside he's on TV he's fighting if I said to people I earn
00:43:29
six thousand pound the fight of x amount to lose the promoter extra monster loose the manager extra monster lose to the
00:43:35
trainer I'm breaking even I'm lucky if I'm getting out with foreground three and a half
00:43:42
lucky after I paid the cup man all the expenses in training very lucky if you
00:43:47
get out with that you definitely don't clear it because don't forget she wants haircuts as well the queen
00:43:53
hmrc so you know uh yeah so very very tough so then you have
00:44:00
to do extracurricular activities to finance or more money and provide food on sale for your kids so it's very bad but I
00:44:06
couldn't expect I know what it's like to be skinned I know it's like not to have a penny I felt Financial pressure
00:44:13
it's just frightening frightening thing and I understand why people do the things to do no one can tell me nothing
00:44:19
about being skinned or whatever people say to me now you would know it's like to be skinned yes you would I don't know what's like to be skipped
00:44:24
with two kids as well so it's patchy fine so you figure a way out and you get
00:44:30
through it and say oh I'm achieving that I've that I've done and and had
00:44:36
it was all off the just to maintain that dream of one day becoming a world champion the frightening part is imagine
00:44:42
getting to that point in life becoming world champion all that and then thinking my wife then says to me and
00:44:48
she's not my wife at the time she still need bed well she'll always be me bad yeah I'm saying to her
00:44:54
she comes down I win the world title of God doesn't Park I'm on a bank holiday Sunday 29th of May 2016. uh yeah what am
00:45:01
I supposed to show you that as well that's the Delta win from goodison to goodness and park that's the Bell to win
00:45:07
I'll watch that now great fight thank you thank you so 29th of May 2016.
00:45:13
I've completed the game I've completed the story The I'm someone in life who's I've I've seen through me lifelong dream
00:45:20
my dream in life was to fight to go to some Park you know that was the best I was ever going to achieve the WBC Tower
00:45:27
goodison Park I've lived I've seen me dream through but I wake up on Monday well that's a
00:45:33
lie I didn't wake up I didn't sleep so I goes down the kitchen on Monday morning bank holiday Monday I mean Mrs comes
00:45:39
down she says to me that's it now you've done it it's time to stop
00:45:44
and I'm like yeah I've achieved everything I set out to do and yeah it's gone well I said but Gail was so
00:45:51
financially far from security that I've got to keep going at this stage she now understands
00:45:57
because she used to think boxing was a game she used to think like as an amateur she didn't even recognize it was she was like you've got head guards on
00:46:03
it's it's not even boxing it's just it's it's basically it's a gamer tick and I was like [ __ ] sake girl if you only
00:46:09
knew I mean but I had God on you and give you a job he'll soon have a [ __ ] different opinion but she's here she
00:46:16
soon lands she soon learns how I lose the brutalize my body cannibalize my own body there'd be times when I had come on
00:46:23
from training and not even remember where I've been [Music] this five nights that I've had that I
00:46:29
can't remember anything I've turned up to Arena's head of 12 now if I come home and not even known I've had the fight
00:46:35
I've been I've lost weeks at a time because I've
00:46:40
been dieting so hard my body's just gone into complete overdraft I've drove home from Sheffield
00:46:47
multiple occasions and not remember the single thing of how I've got almond drove I've been on autopilot and that's
00:46:53
just that's training camp that's life so she starts to understand that how dangerous and real it was
00:46:59
as time went on so once I've won the world title she's like you need to stop now it's time to just be a dad and I'm
00:47:05
like no it's not it's you know I've got to financially secure this so then I made the uh the audacious thing to
00:47:11
Target a man with a pound sign on his head and the man who had that pound sign on his head was David Haye the way I
00:47:17
looked today I knew David from way back from Spartan many years ago when he paid me uh if you ever seen the the program
00:47:23
Red Dwarf yeah remember H well David had a pound sign on his head like H Adam Red Dwarf to me but no one else could see it
00:47:30
it was just me added to the fact I knew I could beat him I always knew what because I spotted him 10 15 years
00:47:37
previously after I won that first ABA title I'm talking about David hire me as a Spartan partner for one day and
00:47:44
I'd I'd never ever been it's still to this day it's the hardest I've ever been hit he hit me so hard with 16 ounce
00:47:50
gloves on the head guard it made me back like a donkey out of nowhere and it
00:47:55
always stuck with me but I took it I didn't go down I should have went down I still don't know since day how I didn't but I took it said some good shot and I
00:48:02
always remember the look on his face off how the [ __ ] are you still standing and that look and then me being able to go
00:48:10
at him and put it on him stuck with me forever and then me dropping him later on the Spartan session let me know even
00:48:16
though he said he should give me a thousand pound David you'll always owe me that thousand pound uh if you drop David you've got a
00:48:22
thousand pound in cash I've had them Buddha's coach at the time I didn't get it because he said it was just like he had a hamstring problem that's why he
00:48:28
went down an absolute bollocks I put him down on one knee he still owes me a grand
00:48:33
go there yeah I knew him I actually knew after that spawn session I'm gonna fight this
00:48:39
man later in my career I told David Price on the day me and David Price spot on that day he was he was getting
00:48:45
notified Mark Hobson and I said to David Price after that session I'm gonna fight him one day David pressed by him as well
00:48:50
didn't he yeah and David said David said what are you on about price he said to
00:48:57
me I said I'm telling you one day I'm gonna fight that man and I chased him me holy I knew one day I'd get him one day
00:49:02
and my past will cross I just don't ask me why I know that I don't know how I know it
00:49:08
I just knew one day I advise him that conversation at the kitchen table with Rachel are you telling her at that point
00:49:14
after you've won that title that you David Hayes next and that will make money I didn't tell her he was next I
00:49:19
told her me career is now all about money it's no longer about my selfish needs and wanting to become world
00:49:25
champion she knows I'm I can be the most selfish bastard in the world and I've done it numerous times to it in life
00:49:32
I've just [ __ ] off listen with me brother died I left and I [ __ ] off the training camp I'm the most selfish bastard you could meet
00:49:38
it's disgusting but that's me so I'm not that anymore I'm a different
00:49:46
person than I was then I I change all the time and I'd like to think I'm not changing I'm evolving I'm getting better
00:49:52
I'm learning from new mistakes but back in the day when I was fighting I would just pack up and leave
00:49:57
so you know I went through the worst time in my whole entire life at that stage and I just packed up and [ __ ] off
00:50:03
so I couldn't do that when we lost Rachel's brother Ashley that was the worst had me whole entire life so this
00:50:08
was after you've beaten David that was after the first time I beat him but yeah yeah I can just pack up and just go and
00:50:13
then that was because you know why because I've got a job to do and when I was fighting it was a job and it was
00:50:19
only until I achieved my goals I've become world champion that I then it was
00:50:24
a dream before I was world champion I was chasing a dream and a goal when that
00:50:30
goal was achieved I actually thought I'm not I I'll leave boxing alone while
00:50:35
I didn't think I'd give it 100 when I became financially secure I then realized it wasn't a dream it wasn't the
00:50:42
money that I was chasing I need something to drive me in life I've only realized that since I've
00:50:47
retired so yeah do you remember that feeling of looking at your bank account after that first David Haye fight and thinking I'm a multi-millionaire um now
00:50:55
and how like what was the feeling
00:51:01
video information I've been waiting for about eight weeks maybe longer might
00:51:06
have been it might have been 12 weeks for them for this for the box office money to come through but at this stage I already know in my
00:51:14
mind in the back I've now completely relaxed I've beat David I've had the crazy results I've now crossed over as
00:51:21
well I'm now uh a public figure like as a world champion yeah I was known I'd
00:51:26
even done a Rocky movie for [ __ ] sake before this sold me I crossed over to a different kind of
00:51:32
set up a group of people are crossed over to your average person so your grandmothers
00:51:38
knew me at this stage things like that that's when you start Fame really kicks in but after beating David it's now gone
00:51:44
to another level because David's a crossover star David's a great looking kid these [ __ ] David hey he takes his
00:51:50
top off he looks a million dollars he's David then he's just he's the king of the world when I beat him
00:51:57
it goes absolutely insane and I'm living now in a different world but I ain't got
00:52:02
the money to be living the way I'd like to live right now I've got enough of me accounts the business has gone well at
00:52:09
this stage in time now after beating David I've got enough to start buying properties and building up our property portfolio for the family and the kids
00:52:15
something I've always planned on doing but when Eddie phones me three months later
00:52:21
he goes tomorrow I'm just giving you the call the box office money's landed he
00:52:26
said and tomorrow you're gonna look in your bank and get a multi-millionaire congratulations if anyone deserves it it's you
00:52:32
the me and had the other backstory and it's mad to think that I was I could
00:52:38
have walked away from Eddie I didn't have no I've never had a contract with at the end I'm probably one of I'm
00:52:43
probably the the highest profile fighter he's had who's made the most money who's never had the sign contract with ever
00:52:51
and we dealt on a handshake bear in mind I was a world champion
00:52:57
with no deal in place I was hot property I have to go to some Park Victory the way I've done it and the way I executed
00:53:03
it it was perfect I then defend me world title and a smashed some guy called BJ Flawless like no one's ever done him
00:53:09
before I get rid of him and then I get a phone call offered me 1.6 million pounds to fight David Haye on BT box office
00:53:17
and I say no and Eddie tells me on the phone and says
00:53:22
I can't offer you that money you've got to take it and I said I'm not going to take it I said be sure hands and we're
00:53:28
going to see this through he says to me I can't give you that money I ain't got that kind of money
00:53:33
to give you right now I said I know he wants to fight me now he's going to deal with you because David didn't want to
00:53:39
deal with Eddie he didn't like Eddie yeah and yeah so Loyalty means just as
00:53:44
much to me as well but getting to that stage I mean life was very very difficult I can't explain to you how odd
00:53:49
it was I'm believing in yourself backing yourself when that phone call came in and at this
00:53:55
stage I've got a few hundred grand I've got a very few hundred grand it's cleared I've
00:54:01
paid me taxes I've done stuff like that but at the time it's in a company so I'm not really it's all good you can be a
00:54:07
multi-millionaire but it's stuck on a company you mean a millionaire until you've got that money personally
00:54:13
in the taxes payments in your bank which is very very hard to do that's when you're the multi-millionaire
00:54:19
so I had to wait a long time to get to that stage uh but thankfully enough I
00:54:25
did I carried on believing in myself and show that I can be loyal even when tested at the most difficult of time
00:54:32
because you can imagine when I've got that phone call at night and this man's off me 1.6 million pounds and says to me
00:54:38
I know you don't trust where this money's coming from but I can have it at your front door tomorrow
00:54:44
so this man says and believe you me this man could I have 1.6 million pounds in a suitcase
00:54:51
at my front door the next day and and I say no to it and at this time I've got a wife who's listening to this phone call
00:54:57
with me and she's saying you better have a [ __ ] good plan or you're going out the store
00:55:02
because at this stage now I've got three kids and I've just knocked back 1.6 million pounds and I'm basically worth
00:55:09
480 Grand I'm not in a company by the way as well
00:55:15
and they served me one point I just quadruples me net worth so I'm Gonna
00:55:21
Knock It Back actually I said this day I still can't believe I gotta do audacity to do it but I mean that handshake means
00:55:28
something so we do we agree a deal when the money comes in the bank
00:55:33
I'm not gonna lie it was it called when something is the climax
00:55:40
yeah it is seen it and I had to actually go to a cash machine say I had I had online
00:55:47
access and I could have done it that way but I didn't I wanted to go into because we put the digits in I've got the
00:55:52
numbers so yeah I wanted to see the actual the zeros on the other thing and see what it
00:55:58
looked like and uh it was over well I was a weird I'm looking for it just didn't no
00:56:05
that's when I realized it wasn't about money was thought this isn't it's not all it's made out to
00:56:11
be I didn't nothing's changed me as a person nothing's changed in my life I've still got three hungry kids
00:56:17
I've still got a Wi-Fi door yeah yeah not really changes you know how it feels
00:56:24
yeah I know I remember this I had the same anti-climax feeling I've talked about on this podcast a million times of
00:56:29
if this wasn't it Steve this is what we thought we were aiming for and if this isn't it then what the [ __ ] is it and
00:56:34
why was I doing all this stuff for you know why was I working hard and being obsessed it makes me question
00:56:39
why do I keep doing what why do I want to keep handing I think now I I want to keep earning for the sake of
00:56:46
I'm trying to pass it on I tell myself that as well but I think the insecure Kid Never Dies in you I
00:56:52
think the kid I I still I know he's telling me now I say to myself now well I just need to get to uh nine figures in my bank account and I
00:57:00
go why like who do I need to show off to no I don't need to so but I still in me and
00:57:06
then I have I'd never really talk about this but I have these little moments where I start looking at Lamborghinis again just out of the blue like four
00:57:13
times a year and then sometimes it overflows and I'll send it to like my manager they'll go what do you think if
00:57:18
I bought this range of this Rolls Royce or I send it to my girlfriend I go hi babe um what do you think what are you
00:57:25
[ __ ] oh I'm sorry it'll be like I woke up again like the kid took over the control rooms with it
00:57:30
but someone sent me a book and I've I've actually done well I've got it on me audiobook and I haven't
00:57:37
done it is it the chimp Paradox he sat here Steve pieces the author I haven't read this in Avenues but people have
00:57:43
said to me you should really read it yeah you should and what you're saying to me kind of it's the inner chimp is it
00:57:49
yeah it's sort of in the chimp the chimp brain which is the kind of irrational impulsive ego it's where your anger and
00:57:56
all of those things yeah so I don't know why I've just been taught I've got it on the audible because I don't really read
00:58:01
the books no more actually looking at them I just listen to them it's changed a lot of people's lives I absorb it better has it yeah I only listen to
00:58:07
audiobooks as well and well other than I actually downloaded your audiobook for 999 and then I was going between both of
00:58:13
them so I was going like I'd read this and I'd read like chapter two and then did you understand that okay yeah I try and I try and slow down if
00:58:22
I'm talking to another scouter it's out of control no it's always better when the author narrates it as well but yeah you should read that books in Paradox if
00:58:28
there's one book which honestly helps you understand yourself and you go
00:58:34
[ __ ] told me this 20 years ago about my own brain it's that with your relationships why sometimes you're you
00:58:41
argue with your wife how to get control of those emotional moments it's all about your chimp like taking over the
00:58:46
brain and Steve Peters who's the author of the book who is like this brains scientist who traveled all the way down
00:58:51
from somewhere at the top of the country just to sit here and tell me about the chimp thing genius hit that book my
00:58:58
business partner is an alcoholic and was all had suicide ideation and didn't know what was out of control with him and he
00:59:03
cites reading that book as the thing that made him change his life sober it's mad the way that's just brought that up
00:59:08
yeah because of the way you explain things yeah it's honestly really and I actually was reading the SEC so the
00:59:15
author of the gym Paradox wrote like a second part to it and I was reading it last week in Bali because I was having a
00:59:20
bit of me and my misses were arguing about something a little bit and so I went to the page about emotional control
00:59:25
just to understand why we have these arguments where we just repeat ourselves
00:59:30
on Cycles yeah and it basically explains in there that the chimp part of your brain which is the front your brain it
00:59:36
will continue to do that until it feels heard so I put the clothes the book and went back downstairs to my misses and I went I said to her I said just want to
00:59:42
make sure that you you understand I completely heard what you're saying and I repeat it back to what she said she completely just stopped
00:59:48
because the minute the chin part of your brain feels like it's understood then it it's completely pacified but until then
00:59:54
it will just you know when you Misses it's like yeah I know that one so it's how to navigate
01:00:01
life yourself and those around you and it's all the chin part of our brain causes us a lot of problems but I've got
01:00:07
to read this [ __ ] book yeah I know you for sure I've just done the biggest plug in the world for it but that is brilliant I had a few words to say about
01:00:13
one of my sponsors on this podcast as the seasons have begun to change so has my diet and
01:00:18
um right now I'm just going to be completely honest with you I'm starting to think a lot about slimming down a
01:00:24
little bit because over the last couple of probably the last four or five months my diet has been pretty bad
01:00:29
um and it started to show a little bit really over the last two months I go to the gym about 80 percent of the time so I track it with 10 of my friends in a
01:00:36
WhatsApp group and this tracker online that we all use together and so one of the things I'm doing now to reduce my
01:00:41
calorie intake and trying to get back to being nutritionally complete and all I eat is I'm having the fuel protein shake
01:00:48
thank you heal for making a product that I actually like The Salted Caramel is my favorite I've got the banana one here which is the one my girlfriend likes but
01:00:54
for me salted caramel is the one one of the moments that you talk to her
01:01:00
about you becoming you kind of crossed over after that David Hay fight one of the things I will never forget is the
01:01:07
raw emotion that came out of you after you won that fight the first one for the second one the
01:01:13
second one I believe yeah this one actually does because of Ashley's passing yes that brought me to the core
01:01:18
still does think about it every single day yeah that shit's horrible
01:01:25
he was he was like a brother to you and he yeah he's Rachel's brother oh he's basically my brother or Rachel's brothers are my brothers my brothers and
01:01:31
their brothers uh I've known great since she was nine years old so Ashley's 18 months younger than sort of No nasty
01:01:37
since bloody hell that makes him seven the first time I met him uh yeah that was not nice mate
01:01:43
and let's not get me wrong it affects hair sisters and their brothers and her mother and their father far more than
01:01:49
could possibly affect me the part that affects me the most I've I've tried my best to come to terms with losing Ash
01:01:55
the part that gets me the most is I see hate my wife it just it just kills her to the core
01:02:03
like you've got to understand that them two grown up 18 months a party grow up basically like twins so she adores them
01:02:10
here doors here they fight the argue constantly as as siblings and then one
01:02:16
day's here the next day is just gone and he'd gone on holiday yeah he gone to
01:02:21
be his his best friend's best man he was just so basically went so worth widen
01:02:26
abroad in the most unruly country in the world Mexico and just doesn't come home
01:02:31
so yeah patch if I meet I still remember that they're getting the phone call and [ __ ] like that yeah
01:02:37
horrible horrible time but there's not much I can say that that hasn't already been said just that the waste time meal
01:02:44
I've had it's something that I'll never truly understand
01:02:51
never that life could be so unfair
01:02:58
yeah there's just a kid who's innocent a lovely lovely lad there
01:03:04
do you know what if if that if what if I could swap play some what happened to him would happen to me I could off say
01:03:10
well he's seen his lifelong dream go through he's lived his life and he's done some
01:03:15
bad [ __ ] too so I can kind of accepted if it was myself I can't accept such a kid like that who's just such a
01:03:22
nice [ __ ] hell just loved life was happy was always smiling always telling jokes
01:03:29
the life of the party yeah yeah it's completely unfair that's why I have
01:03:35
the colored red and the a angel people think I'm some kind of baseball fan I couldn't give a [ __ ] about baseball well
01:03:41
and as people will know the red a on me arm is for Ashley and it's in red because he was a mad libel fan and
01:03:47
followed them everywhere so people think I absolutely hate red but I don't know I
01:03:52
actually wear it with a bit of Pride so yeah just so many things like the kid looked up to me as well
01:03:58
so yeah hard hard time make losing them is the hardest thing that's ever happened in my life better man I've lost
01:04:04
two grandparents yeah seeing people dying lots of crazy
01:04:10
scenario situations yeah but nothing's ever affected me like that
01:04:16
I was worse than Jimmy I was just [ __ ] just here one minute gone the next yeah
01:04:22
gone so so what can you do you said that nearly impacted your
01:04:27
relationship with Rachel as well yeah definitely a big way definitely but that was a shot over those I mean
01:04:33
I'd hope it bring us closer but I just don't think my wife will ever get over it well I know she won't I know she
01:04:40
wants a little brother and especially when you haven't been given the answers that we should have been given and
01:04:45
there's there's there is that there is uncertainties people that could give us the answers but they won't so yeah
01:04:53
yeah very very hard I I assuming our breaks my wife Anna sisters and her sister and
01:05:00
a brother and a mother and father especially a child a parent should never bury a
01:05:06
child in any way shape or form that is the most Hollow and frightening thing you could possibly imagine losing one of
01:05:12
your children how they got through it and how they get through it I'll never know
01:05:18
yeah very hard yeah I always think of The Selfish things
01:05:23
I've done once again I've just [ __ ] off to camp after he died and just because I had to honor that rematch I gave me where to
01:05:30
fight him again and I shouldn't have uh it's a regrepo I found a way to get
01:05:36
through it and navigate through and got the job done you regret giving him your word that you'd fight him or go no I've gone
01:05:43
through with it should never have done it selfish but that's me
01:05:48
either I gave me weight and and when they give
01:05:54
someone your word you've got you've got it only when you see you're [ __ ] off the cam is that like a form of escapism where
01:06:00
you like the [ __ ] off the camp becomes this distraction where you don't have to face the game the pain on the
01:06:05
truth and bear in mind I'm definitely facing the pain because I just climbing myself to sleep every night that I'm in Sheffield
01:06:11
every night I climb yourself to sleep but I know my wife's at home kind of
01:06:16
self-sleep as well my kids are with her oh yeah I'll do that for three months so I go to come for 12 weeks at a time 14
01:06:24
weeks for that one because I know how to lose x amount of weight uh yeah you're alone in a hotel room crying
01:06:31
yeah yeah whole Holiday Inn Express in Sheffield me the microwave and my iPad
01:06:37
I'll meet you seven yeah are you sure the pictures once a week as well on me on and just sit there
01:06:44
sometimes I've tried not pictures of me on and I've just had a cap on me hold over and just cried watching films
01:06:50
because I just it's Michael's I can deal with losing Ashley I can't deal with see my wife in
01:06:56
pain that I can't change that's the worst part still in pain she'll like she she
01:07:03
wouldn't speak to anyone about it she will she had just bottle it up I thought one day she could come to terms of but
01:07:09
she can't I know she can't it's the worst feeling in the world man it's helpless
01:07:15
so yeah it's tough in one of your interviews when you're talking about this you you referenced that phase of
01:07:22
your life I think as being you feeling like you were depressed is that is accurate you felt depressed through that
01:07:27
that's what depression feels I I don't want to tap on that kind of weird because I feel people use it these days
01:07:33
do they benefit I feel people abuse it yeah I feel like it's used today as a
01:07:38
contraction part to gain traction or to people actually aim from money from
01:07:44
saying they're depressed uh but if that's what Depression was yeah grind yourself to sleep and not being
01:07:50
able to solve a problem for the life of you you don't know how to solve it uh and there's nothing made me happy
01:07:58
nothing like not not the only time I was ever happy is when I seen a smile when I seen
01:08:04
her smile and that was very briefly in that period of time like even now to start I'm looking to know she's thinking
01:08:10
about it brother even now we've been past be five years in August
01:08:17
yeah four or five years in August and I know she's thinking about him I just know but I can't change that and that's
01:08:24
the saddest part because as a husband I should be able to do something about that but I can't
01:08:30
that's the one thing if you're I'm a husband I'm a partner I should be able to be there for it I'm
01:08:36
gonna be the comfort blanket but I can't I can't change it so yeah that's hard it's tough
01:08:42
you said she'd never spoken to anyone about it but have you spoken to anybody about it no I went on SAS and that's
01:08:48
where I found out I was [ __ ] up so going on that show highlight like I've never seen a back so
01:08:54
I don't know what I've done what I've said some of the things conversations we had uh
01:09:00
I don't know but that's at that point I knew I had a problem because
01:09:06
I went I'm not sure thinking I've completed life I've I've seen through me lifelong dream I've done this and I've
01:09:12
done that I've got what I set out to get I have [ __ ] hell I'm financially secure me because he's over I'm retired
01:09:18
I'm supposed to just enjoy getting fat now and enjoy playing golf and it was on that show that I realized that I'm not
01:09:24
I'm carrying the burden of what's going on and I'm just constantly wanting to make my wife happy I'm trying to make sense
01:09:31
of how I can fix my wife's situation that's what I found out on that show
01:09:38
because I was just broken down gradually and to be face about Middleton it was his process that that made me realize
01:09:45
that it also made me realize what's important in life [ __ ] nothing this is important as what's in the four walls
01:09:50
of my house nothing matters nothing genuinely matters I've got some
01:09:56
great friends and I love them like brothers I really do but I'm sorry to say it doesn't matter
01:10:01
what massages me messaging me kids the no one in this world actually needs me
01:10:07
or depends on me to the amount that they need me I put them kids on this plans I've got a look after them I've got to
01:10:12
give them the best I possibly can she's my wife I've got to be the best I can possibly be for there
01:10:18
not an else really matters not much and being on that show made me
01:10:23
realize that my phone is just a [ __ ] distraction don't need to spend all day on my phone
01:10:30
I spend too much time on it as it is but I'm trying to implement things now when
01:10:35
I go home that phone doesn't need to be there I like I'm trying my best to just not to
01:10:41
leave the phone alone in the house it's very hard to do by the way I'm sure you'll know that as well but
01:10:48
um I'm trying to implement things differently in my life and that and that show helped me see that definitely did at the start of this conversation you
01:10:54
said when you're talking about your brother that you you'd to survive you'd put this kind of protective wall around yourself yeah and often when I sit here
01:11:02
with I mean Patrice ever is a good example he grew up in the streets of France and he put this protective wall around himself his brother's a drug
01:11:08
dealer and they're overdose and dying in the house Etc so he puts the shield around himself to try and survive and
01:11:14
then it's not until his later years at like 34 years old after he's retired in his afterlife as you call it in chapter
01:11:19
12 11 of your book um that he realized that protective shield is actually it's protected him from his
01:11:26
early years but now it's costing him as an adult it's meaning that he's not able to properly connect on an emotional
01:11:32
level he's running from his pain he's defensive he's got a lot of anger and so he goes on the journey thanks to his
01:11:38
partner when she turns to him one day and goes you're not okay and he goes he gets angry what do you mean I'm not okay and she says it again she goes you're
01:11:44
not okay what's wrong and then in that moment at 40 years old he just lets it down and he says everything from my head
01:11:49
teacher abused me sexually abused me at school I speak all of these things that happen in his childhood but I was
01:11:55
wondering when you said that start the conversation that that Shield you put up to help you to survive after you finish
01:12:01
boxing I'm guessing it's not serving you no I don't
01:12:08
I'll make sense because she's ever now I always saying I'm happy and stuff like that he's actually [ __ ] enough yeah
01:12:14
I get it I understand the side and I understand but then
01:12:19
I feel like I've I've given enough the same part I'll never give up
01:12:24
like I just won't because I wouldn't I can give so much I can't give everything
01:12:30
so I'll hope and that could be pain that could be torment that could be [ __ ] that's gone on in me earlier life I
01:12:36
don't know but I won't give everything you say that on the show you say well you you actually say you'd never write a book yeah it does yeah because I never
01:12:43
see it I've never seen a psychologist and I'll never write a book because I don't want to go back there yeah it's not that and and I don't want to paint
01:12:50
it out to be any worse than any other kids because it's enough get me wrong there's obviously some [ __ ]
01:12:55
there but yeah it's just what's the point I can't change the past so you won't speak about
01:13:01
it yeah it's not to really speak about so just just says what it is it's been and gone
01:13:06
I can't change it so there's no point in discussing it like
01:13:11
I went to New York on the weekend and uh just be as I got to the airport I had a
01:13:17
shitload of [ __ ] just get to the airports I'm always early I'm never late for anything I arrived at the airports
01:13:22
yesterday they said they need to test so I said okay well no one told me I need to test so okay let's where do I do what
01:13:28
do I do ghost answer says the first floor they've now I'm now half an hour away and I'm not checked in yet from your
01:13:34
flight and I'm at the front of the queue sitting there waiting for the thing goes downstairs gets the test done okay now
01:13:40
we've hit another problem there's a different name on your ticket than there is on your passport I said okay well sound
01:13:46
I'm not in control of any of this young man comes over to me from Virgin and he says right you've got you've got to beat
01:13:52
your plane in 10 minutes and the gate's 15 minutes away I said okay sound he says to me can I just say something he said we get
01:13:58
through this checkout bit and we used to put all your [ __ ] in the bag and stuff he said I've never seen anyone so calm
01:14:04
you're gonna miss a flight I said you want me to tell you something kid I said why am I going to get stressed out about
01:14:10
things I can't change I have no imp I can't do anything to change
01:14:15
if I start shouting and screaming and blaming the people who are involved in this it's not going to change the
01:14:22
situation so why would I get worked up about it and he said wow that was amazing I've never seen anyone say that
01:14:27
I wish you could tell everyone who comes on Virgin Airlines that problem and I was like it's just a part of my life
01:14:33
that I'm in now so I don't see the point in going backwards and talking about old stuff when I can only change what's in front
01:14:40
of me and I can only change what's on my path by going back I'm only just gonna lift the can of more pain and hate or
01:14:47
[ __ ] that I've done that's wrong and I and to be fair I think about enough of the wrong things I've done or enough of
01:14:52
the bad things that have happened to me anyway so I don't see what talking about them would solve if I can just keep
01:14:58
moving on and keep moving forward I remain in a happy place I'm trying to
01:15:04
remain not happily as much as I can but life's difficult you know you know people look at you and think you're the
01:15:10
success story they look at the money you've got to look at the scenario and the setup you've got but ultimately
01:15:16
are you happy and that's all that matters I don't care if you've got a pound in your bank or you've got 100 million in your bank are
01:15:22
you happy and that's all that matters so all as I'm trying to search for every
01:15:28
day is that feeling of happy yes I understand that there's a need for money
01:15:33
I would be a fool if I said I don't work for money of course I do I've got to get what I'm with but at the same time I'm a
01:15:40
happy are you happy yes with the life I've created yes to a field it's complete no do I have
01:15:47
unhappy days absolutely yes I'm a happy every single morning when I wake up no
01:15:54
not at all I don't believe anybody is and if you are show me your [ __ ] recipe please because I'll drink it up
01:16:01
but no I'm not forever happy but if I look at my life and what I've generated
01:16:06
and what I've created yes I'm happy I'm happy with that but I'm still striving I'm still pushing
01:16:12
towards goals whether that be where it goals whether that be I always want to be better
01:16:18
so that's the problem with me you said it's not complete no what would be
01:16:23
required to complete it I don't know
01:16:29
that's that's the frightening part so I can keep chasing money I can keep
01:16:35
chasing deals I can keep putting things in place I can keep looking at that Rolls-Royce
01:16:40
that I could probably buy but I can't justify because as I said before Allah
01:16:47
is the kids money I ain't spend their money on keeping the Rolls Royce so that they're staying in the plan a
01:16:54
I don't know I don't know what's going to make me happy try and just keep getting better at whatever I'm doing
01:17:01
trying to keep a working relationship and and a lifestyle relationship both of them work
01:17:08
in tandem so I can remain happy people keep also enough time to spend with my kids and family because ultimately I've
01:17:14
got to work and need something to focus on I was retired for two years and basically not aired I've not seen me for
01:17:19
12 months I just enjoy getting fat and yeah just being one of the lads with
01:17:27
me meet and then I soon realized [ __ ] I need something to focus on why because life just
01:17:33
I can't just be at home be a dad and be a husband and just sit there and get fat I mean what kind of example am I sent to
01:17:39
me kids is there a part of it that your life was so full of adrenaline and not super
01:17:45
addictive that buzz and then I mean Fighters talk about this a lot and we Fury's talked about this a lot and then
01:17:50
that struggle of just going back to you I mean you said it you're not very good at normal life no I'm not good at that I
01:17:56
can definitely yeah I'm not good at just being a I couldn't be a nine to five dad like that
01:18:02
in itself is a [ __ ] great strength that is an enormous amount of strength that you give them a pattern on the back
01:18:09
but everyone out there doing nine to five I've done it I've tried it I've worked the next I've worked in
01:18:14
a pillow factory I've worked as a lifeguard I've worked nightclub security daytime security
01:18:21
I've worked as a laborer I've done some mad stuff I've done every
01:18:27
possible thing you can imagine I understand it I've sat in an office I worked as a trainee accountant so I'd be
01:18:33
best with that hard nine to five jobs are hard anything worth doing is hard anything to be the
01:18:40
best at something is very hard this thing that you said you think you're kind of looking for to complete you as
01:18:45
you said does it scare you that it might not even exist it doesn't exist and that's the frightening part I know it
01:18:51
doesn't exist but that I also understand the know that no one can feel absolutely
01:18:56
complete because otherwise we wouldn't be doing the things we're doing
01:19:03
so the complete the complete person doesn't exist that's a that's [ __ ] so that's a fairy tale so you show me a
01:19:11
complete if you can show me I can fully complete happy person I'll show you a unicorn
01:19:18
it just doesn't exist but I I'm still chasing it well I'd like to think so
01:19:25
quick one we bring in eight people a month to watch these conversations live here in the studio when we're here in
01:19:31
the UK and when we're in La if you want to be one of those people all you've got to do is hit subscribe
01:19:38
Tony we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest writes a question for the next guest wow yeah and
01:19:44
I don't read it until I open this book so if money were no issue and completely Unlimited
01:19:52
what would that enable for you
01:19:57
and then they've done a second part to the question how would you put it to use to further your vision so if money were no issue
01:20:03
money was no issue creative I wonder if they're trying to create things for me kids that are
01:20:09
passed out so I've always thought about when I die so leaving making sure they're safe
01:20:15
would you give them all the money though what's up that's a [ __ ] big question
01:20:20
would they give them all the money yeah your kids if I was a billionaire yeah no
01:20:26
not all of it are you not a bit scared because you come from the place you come from this yes I understand that even though
01:20:34
me Elder son wanted to be the same which it can never be he would never understand
01:20:39
uh he likes to think he can because he was born where he was born and where he's served the first few years of his
01:20:45
life he's seen us have difficult times you remember sharing the bedroom with his brothers he remembers
01:20:52
I can't even say that no he's always had the best the kids always had the best even when I didn't have any idea so
01:20:59
yeah if that if that was entailed
01:21:05
if money was no object if I sent you a billion right now not that I have it but if I did I sent you a billion
01:21:10
what changes I have a billion does it scare you a little bit of thought of getting a billion
01:21:15
no no money doesn't money doesn't mean much to me anymore it's
01:21:21
it's like fame fame is just an expectation Fame is just an intrusion of privacy
01:21:27
that's all as it is it it doesn't mean anything tell people all the time social media is the biggest problem we're
01:21:33
dealing with because it's showing everyone the destination and no on the journey everyone just sees me no one sees where
01:21:40
you came from no one sees the street everyone just sees this point up here
01:21:45
and this point down here no one sees that uphill struggle the fight to get where you need to get the hours of
01:21:50
determination of work of graft of all the stuff you put in no one sees that Journey and if I could have that money and show
01:21:58
that it would be more than showing people the journey that's what I would use that money for show people that you
01:22:04
show everyone that they're capable of everything I've done I tell these people all the time I am no
01:22:10
one special guy just stopped me outside he gave me shook hands with me he said can I show you something right outside
01:22:15
and I just pulled up outside here this is fired away I said stop believing I'm
01:22:21
someone special just you know look at this he just showed me a picture on social media I have no idea what the
01:22:26
guy's name was but he says look at that he said there's hope for all five kids and it was a picture of me after I just
01:22:32
beat up David Haye and it was a picture of his insulin that was posted months ago but he showed me and said thank you
01:22:38
so much for your support I appreciate that now if I can't show you I can be achieved
01:22:44
and nothing comes that's all I am [ __ ] him from Liverpool who never gave in who never gave up and always believed in
01:22:50
himself if I can do it so can everyone else watching this
01:22:55
thank you Tony really absolute pleasure honestly really remarkably inspiring and the thing that I think the mark you left
01:23:02
on me as I watched your journey play out is that it's possible to be a really good honest legit person who is
01:23:11
exactly who you think they are when you see them on screen who's willing to pull their heart out who doesn't need to
01:23:16
engage in these like [ __ ] talking games that like David Haye was doing who can be so real and connect with so many
01:23:22
people because of their like just their realness and their honesty while also being this this unbelievable Champion
01:23:28
that was considered thank you an underdog for so many years and that did it all so thank you so much it was a
01:23:33
pleasure reading this as well because thank you your book is as real as you are um and it's it's as you say from the
01:23:39
guy outside it's an inspiration to so many young men that need that so thank you very much just try and be authentic
01:23:45
and be yourself all we can really be I mean there's no point in pretending to be anyone else or trying to be something
01:23:51
that you're not because ultimately in the end your colors will come shining through and you will see who your [ __ ] thank you very very much it's
01:23:58
been an absolute episode and a half coming here senior environment and finding out about you as well you've
01:24:04
done amazing to come from the background you've come from so you want you you should be very proud to yourself oh thanks man means a diamond from you
01:24:10
thank you pleasure thanks as you might know crafted are one of the sponsors of this podcast and crafted are
01:24:17
a jewelry brand and they make really meaningful pieces of jewelry and this piece by crafted when I put it on for me
01:24:24
it represents courage it represents ambition it represents being calm and loving and respectful and nurturing
01:24:31
while also being the antithesis of that seemingly the antithesis of that which is
01:24:36
um sometimes a little bit aggressive with my goals and determined and courageous and brave the really
01:24:42
wonderful thing about crafty jewelry is it's super affordable it looks amazing the pieces hold tremendous meaning and
01:24:48
they are really well made foreign
01:24:54
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