00:00:00
Jeffrey Epstein was a product of at least one element of the intelligence community. I would bet money on it.
00:00:05
The CIA, FBI. I don't know who ran him, but he knew a tremendous amount about my scientific work in ways that he wasn't supposed to.
00:00:12
Very powerful people told me I needed to meet him. He certainly was not a financeier in any standard sense. That
00:00:17
was a cover story. I need to know what this thing was. And I want to know why people don't investigate it. I want to
00:00:23
know why nobody asks for the filings. But I think more than anything, we don't trust our scientists because our
00:00:29
scientists are the most powerful people in our society. So, do you think science is being
00:00:34
controlled so that it can be used in a way that's beneficial? Let's put it this way. Eric Weinstein is
00:00:39
a renowned mathematician and one of the most fearless and provocative thinkers of our time. He dissects the failures of science,
00:00:45
exposes elite networks, and proposes bold new theories that could save humanity. So, top of mind for me at the moment is
00:00:51
the apocalypse and tropical fruit. I'm not kidding. You're looking at the end, man.
00:00:56
Do you really think this is the start of the end? Of course it is. Look at how much has happened in the last month. And the big
00:01:03
problem is that we share one atmosphere. All of humanity's eggs are in one basket. So, what needs to happen to get me a
00:01:09
future? So, I think Elon is 100% right. Got to get to another sphere. But he's being a complete when it comes to science and
00:01:15
he's being a total hero when it comes to engineering. But you can't engineer your way to the stars with the science we have. The physics opens the universe to
00:01:23
you. But we have a real problem. A new idea in physics changes the balance of power in the world. The desire of our
00:01:30
government is to get the science to give us as much power as possible. But then they castrate the scientists, belittle
00:01:36
them, destroy their families, their lives, their ability to earn because our government isn't good enough to keep its
00:01:42
own secrets. Do you think my employer was a special informant to the FBI? There's a doctrine that says
00:01:48
physicists don't have free speech. They're stopping the world's most important group from making progress.
00:01:54
Physics is the only thing that's going to get your future. So, let's talk about this.
00:02:00
I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
00:02:05
could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing
00:02:11
that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do
00:02:18
double check if you've subscribed and uh thank you so much because in a strange way you are you're part of our history
00:02:23
and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.
00:02:29
[Music] Eric, you are a particularly captivating
00:02:34
individual for the very fact that you grace so many different intellectual subjects. As we sit here now having this
00:02:42
conversation, I want to know what subjects at this moment in in time are
00:02:48
occupying most of your thoughts and most of your thinking. We have uh a strong
00:02:53
listenership here and I think the responsibility that I have meeting someone like you is to understand what
00:03:00
we should be talking about. So top of mind for me at the moment is tropical fruit and physics.
00:03:07
I'm not kidding. Tropical fruit and physics. Yeah. Yeah, but that's just because you're catching me on a particular day.
00:03:12
Okay. And uh my my local um 99 Ranch Market ran out of Rambutan, which I'm addicted
00:03:19
to. No, I have serious issues with tropical fruit. I'm I'm completely obsessed by
00:03:24
it. What about this week? What What's been occupying most of your thoughts this week? Well, the apocalypse and physics.
00:03:31
Why' you say the apocalypse? Um and what do you mean by the apocalypse? Well, we're we're becoming a nerd to to
00:03:39
the apocalypse. We just watched hypersonic missiles flam into a modern city on TV, and
00:03:47
we're watching one of the world's most remarkable civilizations, the Persians,
00:03:54
take uh direct hits from both Israel and
00:03:59
the US. And I'm just beside myself. I mean, this is incredibly dramatic
00:04:07
if if you think about, you know, just the idea of the Jews and the Persians are both still here. And, you know, one
00:04:14
of the things that I find really just painful is that
00:04:19
I care about certain certain cultures that I know well more than others. And these are two of my absolute favorites.
00:04:26
What's what's going on at this moment in time? because it feels like there's more conflict than there's ever been. And I
00:04:33
don't know whether that's just a bias that I have at this moment, but or whether I'm looking at the wrong social media algorithm, but it feels like the
00:04:39
world isn't is tense. Well, you're too you're too young for the Cold War. So, I don't know how old you are.
00:04:45
32. Yeah. So, you you you really missed I grew up in a different world where things were tense because there were two
00:04:51
players and you know, it was more or less the US and the Soviets.
00:04:57
And then we decided it one of the dumbest things we ever came up with. A very smart man came up with the dumbest
00:05:03
one of the dumbest ideas which was the end of history. And you know the the postworld war I order
00:05:11
is here to stop us from using the technologies that came out of this. And I you know I talk about this a lot.
00:05:17
There was a six-month period between November of 52 and April of 53 where we
00:05:23
unlocked first the power of the nucleus because we could fuse hydrogen and the
00:05:30
other thing we were able to do was uh figure out the threedimensional structure of nucleic acid in the form of
00:05:36
the double helix. And suddenly in in no time flat we had access to the two most
00:05:43
powerful levers uh humanity has ever had. perhaps ever will. And so we're
00:05:49
just not in a position to deal with this. And the remarkable thing, what does that mean, sorry, in terms of
00:05:55
you said we had access to the two most remarkable things? Well, the hydrogen bomb is not something
00:06:02
that has ever been used by anyone against an enemy.
00:06:07
This is the first full scale test of a hydrogen device. If the reaction goes,
00:06:13
we're in the thermonuclear era. 3 2 1.
00:06:20
So we're we're awaiting its first use in war. We we we did use fision devices,
00:06:25
but we didn't use fusion devices, and they're completely different scales.
00:06:30
So the Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only two situations in which a nuke has ever been used against a a population,
00:06:38
civilian or otherwise. And we don't know for example whether or
00:06:44
not I don't know um at least co had its origins in a bioweapons program.
00:06:50
So at some level we're playing with levers and tools that are so powerful.
00:06:56
Do you realize that the the key ingredient that made COVID so unique
00:07:02
was a four amino acid sequence inserted into spike protein. So that's 12
00:07:08
nucleotides coding for four amino acids shut down planet earth for a couple of years. That's how powerful this is, you
00:07:15
know, and the very few things that have this kind of leverage. In 2017, we had a
00:07:22
discovery, a white paper called attention is all you need. And oddly, many of us dealing with AI and LLMs and
00:07:29
talking that language don't even realize there's a paper that you can read that changed everything.
00:07:35
uh it's eight authors out of Google I think um and that opened up AI uh
00:07:41
Satoshi in 2008 2009 with the the solution to the double distributed
00:07:47
double spend problem where you could effectively port um conservation laws from the physical world into the digital
00:07:53
world giving us digital gold. Uh but just as a as a beginning, these ideas that have such high leverage
00:08:02
are making us powerful beyond
00:08:07
any previous world with no attendant increase in our wisdom, in our
00:08:14
ability to use and wield these things. And right now you're seeing the face where we're unveiling what does drone
00:08:21
warfare look like in FPV? What is FPV? first person
00:08:27
where you know where you're looking through the lens of the drone as it slams into a personnel carrier. You
00:08:34
know, maybe maybe you've seen this on Telegram where you're just watching individuals being menaced by mechanical
00:08:41
flying birds equipped to kill them. So, we didn't know what drone warfare looked
00:08:48
like. This is the beginning of drone warfare. We didn't know what hypersonic missiles look like when they slam into a
00:08:55
population center. I was just in Tel Aviv. Yeah. Couple months ago. And I was in, you
00:09:00
know, shelters because the Houthis and some of the Palestinian Arabs in Gaza
00:09:05
were letting off missiles, but not like this. Persians really, you know, and by the
00:09:13
way, they're choosing, I think, to not inflict maximal damage. I don't I don't think that they they could have gotten
00:09:19
the body count uh a lot higher if they'd wanted to. They're trying to speak
00:09:25
the language of violence in a very measured fashion.
00:09:30
So, is this a particularly tense moment or is it just the bias that I have because I've not been through
00:09:36
these things before? Is there something different? You're look I can't even believe the question. You're looking at the end,
00:09:42
man. This is the beginning. This is a slow roll out of a completely different
00:09:49
world. You've been in We've all been in a completely artificially stagnant bubble for decades. My entire life up
00:09:57
until now has been in a bubble. The only people who have seen real life are
00:10:02
extremely old. Who are those people that have seen real life? Well, I would say people who went
00:10:08
through the depression, World War II, you know, in China, people who went through Ma's great leap forward, but
00:10:15
most of us have no idea of what like a real pandemic like a Spanish flu or black plague is like. We don't know what
00:10:23
uh Poland went through where they lost, you know, I don't know, 20 25% of their population to war. Look at the stat
00:10:30
statistics on the battle of Stalenrad. We don't really understand. We've we
00:10:36
we've just our whole life has been in a bubble. You said I'm looking at the end.
00:10:42
Yeah. Remember all the talk about the singularity? Like Ray Curtzswhil, we're heading to the singularity. What is the
00:10:48
singularity going to be like? You're in it.
00:10:53
This is this is now
00:10:59
you're looking at the disintegration of NATO. You're looking at people who don't know
00:11:04
how to maintain the systems that were engineered by their great-grandparents after World War II. That order
00:11:11
that, you know, you're from the UK. If you think about how how the UK woke
00:11:17
up to the idea that they had built into their heads that we are the masters of
00:11:23
the world. So you you saw the beginning of the end of this concept of the
00:11:29
British Empire. That moment is coming for the US and it may be that it's
00:11:35
coming for Israel or it may be that it's coming for Iran. See, in 1967, the Israelis felt invincible in the Six-Day
00:11:42
War. And then in 1973, they had the Yom Kipper war, and all the people that they
00:11:49
were, you know, priding themselves as having beaten, these ferocious enemies that were arrayed against them woke up
00:11:55
on Yom Kapor in 1973 and bloodied the Israelis and they surprised them. So,
00:12:01
the Israelis underestimated their enemy and that changed the entire character of
00:12:06
the country. It went from being a triumphal state that felt that David could defeat Goliath to realizing that
00:12:12
Goliath was quite powerful. And you know, the same thing is going to happen here. You you saw the celebration that
00:12:19
Trump, you know, had dealt this blow to the Iranian nuclear facilities. You you watch the Persians come back. It's going
00:12:25
to we're starting to realize what the boundaries are as people are more bold
00:12:31
in trying things. Maybe Xi's going to try to cross the Taiwan Strait. I don't know. But the era of stasis where very
00:12:37
little happened over very long periods of time is over. So you think this is the start of
00:12:43
escalation? This is the start of the undoing of the postworld war II order. The idea that
00:12:49
the postworld war II order is still in place is astounding.
00:12:54
So what happens next? We either scare the crap out of ourselves and come to our senses or we
00:12:59
don't. We scare the crap out of ourselves and come to our senses or we don't. Hm. And what does that look
00:13:05
like? Scaring the crap out of ourselves. Well, I don't know. How did you feel about the hypersonic missiles? Like, and we started this and I'm talking about
00:13:11
tropical fruit because I'm trying to figure out whether I I should buy a jackf fruit and stink up my wife's kitchen, you know? And on the other
00:13:18
hand, I just saw hypersonic missiles slam into the buildings I was just in for meetings in Tel Aviv.
00:13:25
There's a a nuclear threat that weirdly hangs over us. And I
00:13:30
almost feel at some deep level we all understand and feel that threat that there's these nine or 10 countries
00:13:36
around the world that have the ability to basically wipe out all of us at any moment. I feel like that's almost within
00:13:43
us all. That knowing is within us all. I totally disagree. Really? Yeah. I think about nothing else
00:13:48
sometimes and I still don't believe I don't believe it. There's a difference between knowing something in your head and knowing
00:13:53
something embodied. Yeah. I don't know if we're able to distinguish whether we know it in our head or whether it's embodied
00:14:00
unconsciously to the point that it's changing how we act. Do you know what I mean? Because I'm I'm
00:14:05
now aware that there's nine country and I'm also aware of that really it's one individual's
00:14:10
decision as to whether those nuclear bombs were to fly. So there's a part of me that's I don't know maybe in
00:14:16
suspended disbelief or at a deeper level feels an angst but nobody knows what to do with it. And
00:14:23
this is part of what what Elon is all about, which is that I am convinced that everybody else needs to be talking about
00:14:29
this much more and I need to be talking about this much less. I talk about this all the time.
00:14:35
You know, people are always I want to survive more than anything else. There's so many things that I love about this
00:14:41
place and I don't like the idea that we're all trapped here with one atmosphere with nine individuals if you
00:14:49
like who could all wake up on the wrong side of the bed and say, "Uh,
00:14:55
today's the day." Part of what I'm so exercised about with respect to the apocalypse is how many
00:15:01
things I want to save. I mean, this city just went up in flames.
00:15:07
It's very, it focuses the mind. How many things can I save in one car load if I
00:15:13
know that the police are not going to let me come back to my home? Do you save photos? Do you save musical instruments?
00:15:19
Do you save financial records? What what is it that you save? You know, it was a very focusing question. We're already
00:15:25
over it. We can't even remember the fires. On that point of the things that give us
00:15:31
meaning, yeah, in our lives, where do you think we're at as a society in terms of our feelings of meaning and
00:15:39
purpose and connectedness to maybe something transcendent or I was mulling over this idea the other day. I actually
00:15:45
posted it on on my LinkedIn page of all places. I said that um I think we need to ladder up to things to feel like
00:15:51
anchored and content in life. like we you know we lad we start with ourselves and we ladder up to family then community then maybe a mission or a
00:15:57
purpose and then maybe to something transcendent and it feels like it because of the design of our lives and the optimization of it we we're
00:16:03
increasingly lading up to just ourselves. Yeah. I think even in my life I'm wondering whether there's like a layer missing
00:16:10
like which is the religious layer or a spiritual layer. Do you pray?
00:16:15
It's a good question. You come over Friday night and pray with us. I'd say I do pray.
00:16:22
That's pretty weak. But it's not a it's not the way that I see prayer on in movies and stuff. So that's the thing, right? We have this
00:16:29
idea that somebody puts their hands together and they just believe. Yeah. But a lot of time when you're praying,
00:16:34
you don't really believe. You're not sure that you're doing anything sensible. You you feel ridiculous. Mhm. And that's true. Even if you're a
00:16:40
believer. Do you think we need religion? Yeah.
00:16:46
Said the atheist. Are you an atheist? Yeah.
00:16:51
But I take religion super seriously. I don't think we're meant to live without it.
00:16:59
That's an interesting conundrum. I don't think so. Everybody gets hung up on it. I sort of wonder what their
00:17:05
problem is. Please explain. So, you believe that we aren't meant to live without religion. We're meant to be orientated by
00:17:11
something transcendent, but you don't believe that it's real. I think that,
00:17:20
you know, there's this great trick that I learned when I was scuba diving, which is that your your need to breathe is
00:17:28
triggered by the buildup of CO2 in your lungs. And there are all sorts of things you can do to decrease your need to
00:17:34
breathe. One is you can hyperventilate. And you can get rid of all of the CO2 that's residual. You can also inerture
00:17:40
your lungs to CO2 by smoking. You can also breathe out the precious air that
00:17:46
your instincts tell you to hold in. You can do all these things and then you can go super deep. You can equal learn how
00:17:51
to equalize the pressure in your ears by holding your nose and and these techniques. And suddenly you're far
00:17:58
deeper than you've ever been. And you're exploring the rocks and the fishes and there's a turtle and there's an eel
00:18:04
and you get a message. You're out of air. And you look up and you see, I am really
00:18:10
far from the surface. This is terrifying. That's what happens when you unhook
00:18:16
the proximate which is air hunger from the ultimate which is the need to breathe.
00:18:23
So thirst is proximate to dehydration. Hunger is proximate to the need for
00:18:29
nourishment. In part, religion and prayer is there to
00:18:35
keep us from unhooking all of these protective things and just
00:18:41
turning life into a hoot. You can have a hoot without religion, but if everybody has a hoot, the whole society collapses.
00:18:51
Some point I think a president of the United States may have said that people who defend this country were suckers.
00:18:58
Something like that. And I thought, "God damn you." Maybe it's true even,
00:19:05
but how many families have have received a a flag draped coffin
00:19:12
and felt pride like we lost something precious, but we
00:19:17
are part of the American tapestry in a way that few families can be. And when we outsmart ourselves, when we unhook
00:19:24
all of these things, you know, every single young woman has an idea about what the opportunity cost
00:19:33
of not going on only fans is
00:19:38
before. We didn't know what the opportunity cost. There was no measurement of it. We're becoming too sophisticated. We've
00:19:44
got too much information. We're deranging ourselves. We're having a blast.
00:19:51
and we're completely undoing all of the superructure of the world.
00:19:56
The number of people who don't have children or want children or
00:20:02
my kids make fun of me. I just go around telling people to make babies
00:20:09
and it's the most normal thing in the world. I meet parents who don't harass their
00:20:14
own children to get married and have families. Like what are you doing?
00:20:19
the superructures of the world. Yeah. One being family family.
00:20:25
Yeah. Traditions. Yeah. Things that ground that connect you to.
00:20:31
And what are the symptoms of that unhooking from the superructures of the world? How much do you care about things? How
00:20:37
much do you care about people saying your name four generations out? Me?
00:20:43
Yeah. You. You're probably asking the wrong person because I just don't think legacy matters because I'm going to be dead. That's right. But you're I'm asking all
00:20:50
of you who believe that. Yeah. That is so sad.
00:20:55
It is so weird that no one cares about their legacy because they don't see a future. So what I'm trying to say is
00:21:03
I'm desperate to get you a future so that you care. What needs to happen to get me a future?
00:21:10
Something remarkable. Something utterly remarkable because it's not it's not going that way. And that's what that's
00:21:16
what the physics part is. Like I talk about physics constantly. Physics is the only thing that's going to get to your
00:21:22
future. And how how well right now the big problem is that we share one atmosphere.
00:21:28
Yeah. So everything that can all the really bad things whether it's
00:21:35
pathogens like imagine something coidlike but far worse or climate or uh radiation.
00:21:46
All of these things don't know anything about borders. To an extent there's a
00:21:51
southern and a northern hemisphere that are separate but even that's not a great border. So, we can draw all the borders
00:21:57
on land that we want, but we still have basically one or two atmospheres. And I would really say one. And we've now
00:22:04
gotten powerful enough to really screw it up, right? And so,
00:22:10
through nukes or through carbon emissions, all three of those things. Okay? Right? Everything that you care about is on one
00:22:17
sphere with one one atmosphere. And I think Elon is 100% right. We got
00:22:23
to get to another sphere. I can't believe that he's focused on Mars. I mean, by by
00:22:32
sure, focus on the moon, focus on Mars, focus on chemical rockets, but throw a couple billion towards
00:22:38
physics for God's sakes. So, let us get it. Let us get serious about exploring the cosmos.
00:22:45
This is our womb. This is not our home. We're You know, you know that song, Closing Time?
00:22:50
No, I don't. Closing time. Uh, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. I think it's about
00:22:57
birth. Yeah, it's time to be born. You can't stay here.
00:23:04
This is completely obvious to me and I am the only person who who talks this way and so I sound like a lunatic and I
00:23:09
get tired of it. But the real reason it, you know, it's about the mangoes, it's about the rambutan, it's about the
00:23:16
music, it's about all the things that I love.
00:23:21
So why would you want to leave? I want to take it with us and I want to see what else is out there and I want to meet people.
00:23:27
Why don't you just stay here and fix this planet? Cuz you can't.
00:23:33
The odds of fixing one sphere for a permanent future. You've already talked about you don't care about the future.
00:23:39
I don't have children yet either. So I don't Yeah, I don't have that. But I My children don't have children and their children don't have children
00:23:46
and I care about them and they're not even here. We've got some time left here though.
00:23:53
Well, we did. If you looked what's happened in the last month,
00:24:00
it's coming undone. Pakistan and India.
00:24:06
Do you really think this is the start of the end? I I have no idea where I am.
00:24:13
Of course it is. The World War II order was keeping it.
00:24:18
It's like control rods keeping the world from going super critical. Can't we just put the rods back
00:24:24
together? Have you looked at who we had an election with Donald Trump versus Kla
00:24:31
Harris in the US? Tell me what's going on in the UK. What are we doing in the mayoral race for for
00:24:38
New York? I don't know if you're watching what I'm watching. Look at the
00:24:43
mess that's going on in Gaza.
00:24:48
Russia is nuclear. Israel is presumably nuclear. Pakistan and India are nuclear.
00:24:53
The US is nuclear. Iran is almost nuclear. China's pissed off about Iran because it was trying to make a play
00:25:00
through the region. North Korea is watching. Oh, and look at the UK in turmoil.
00:25:09
UK is a very nuclear country. To say nothing of France.
00:25:14
This is not going to go well. We just we and by the way look at how much is happening with AI,
00:25:21
right? Everything was really stagnant. So I I have this famous challenge that I give
00:25:27
people which is go into a room and subtract the screens and forget
00:25:33
about style. How do you know you're not in 1973?
00:25:39
Like drones are the beginning. Imagine I needed a refill on my coffee
00:25:44
and you know you did something and a drone brought me a coffee to not interrupt the flow. That would we know
00:25:50
we weren't in 73 but in general drones aren't a big part of our lives. These robots I've never seen a human
00:25:57
robot actually doing anything other than on YouTube where it's like doing the mashed potato. Mhm.
00:26:03
So in general yeah things were just really stagnant for a really long time. And during that period of stagnation, we
00:26:10
we had this crazy narrative which is like the dizzying pace of change is making it almost impossible to keep up
00:26:16
while things were incredibly stagnant. And so it just shows you sort of this weird way in which our our minds can be
00:26:22
programmed to completely ignore what we're experiencing. Is there not a chance that we'll just
00:26:28
continue to Okay, if you want to go with chance,
00:26:34
look, until until you're worried about your great great grandchildren. I don't
00:26:39
want to have this conversation with you. I want you to start caring about that. I
00:26:45
want you to go to church. You you're heir to a great tradition.
00:26:51
One of the most important traditions in the world has to be Christianity because both Judaism and Islam are screwed up
00:26:58
over the law. We're legal traditions. Christianity, not so much. And I think I
00:27:04
first time somebody crystallized that for me was Sam Harris. It's a really important point, but
00:27:10
you're heir to an incredibly powerful and important tradition. And if we don't have a Christian substrate, we're in
00:27:15
real trouble because all of our society is based on on an assumption of a Christian substrate.
00:27:21
You're advising me to be Christian in tradition but not in
00:27:27
necessarily in belief. Well, this is the thing. You're alienated because you think that you have to be a believer in order to go in.
00:27:33
Otherwise, you're faking it. Yeah. Get over yourself. That's not how it works.
00:27:38
That's true. That's me just me being honest. I do think that if I went to a church and I I sung and I I prayed and stuff and I didn't believe I would that
00:27:46
I'd be like it'd be it'd be fake. Okay.
00:27:51
Do do you imagine that all those people who go to church are just sitting there 100% sure that there's a there's a Jesus
00:27:56
to pray to? Do you know any Christians? Yeah. Yeah. They're not like that.
00:28:04
They sneak off and do bad things. If they were confident that Jesus was watching everything that they were doing
00:28:10
and they were constantly talking about how they sin, I'm a sinner. Right? It's a very
00:28:15
complicated, interesting piece of kit. And my claim is that,
00:28:23
you know, I said the Lord's Prayer as part of going to high school.
00:28:33
I sat in a church, a chapel at a high school in LA that had a stained glass
00:28:39
window with an American soldier trampling a Nazi flag into the stained glass window.
00:28:46
was amazing. How does this link to me? I was about to say, can't don't you have faith that
00:28:52
we'll just be able to kind of keep this? It feels like a bit of a standoff. So, you're the one with the faith. I'm
00:28:58
the one who's nervous. You look, you're the believer.
00:29:03
I'm not going to trust that. No, no. I'm going to get my hands dirty and try to do something about it. Do you know what? I think in part it's
00:29:09
because as you said I've been alive for 32 years and through that time has been relative peace especially in the western
00:29:14
world. So it's all I've ever known. So I I'm born with this assumption that this is just kind of how it goes. That there's always threat but we kind of
00:29:20
figure it out. Come to the Pacific Palisades. It looks like Gaza. Yeah.
00:29:28
Yeah. I've got some friends that lost their houses there. You know checked out Lahina in uh West Maui
00:29:34
recently. No. It's an absolute disaster.
00:29:40
Is AI a protagonist in this story? Is it? Sure. In what in what respect? Well, what do you what do you think
00:29:47
about it? We're going through going through a wild revolution at the moment and I just hear people saying the
00:29:53
dumbest things about it. What do I think about I'm scared I might say something dumb now, but
00:29:58
Well, let's try because I'm going to say something dumb. I think well I look at both sides of the coin and I look at the
00:30:04
opportunity and the and the threat. My concern when I hear about the CEOs of the biggest aerial companies in the
00:30:10
world talking about this fast takeoff is that the transition will be too quick for us to adjust. And when they say fast
00:30:16
takeoff, they mean that AGI like arrives and it the rate of its learning
00:30:21
accelerates so quickly that it really um disrupts the need for human beings to do
00:30:29
a lot of the sort of jobs we're doing today that are centered on intelligence. Which jobs require intelligence?
00:30:35
Pretty much all of them these days because we've had the industrial revolution where we've outsourced a lot of the labor to machines. But
00:30:41
I don't think so really. Yeah, I think a large portion of our conversation was actually an LLM.
00:30:48
We didn't actually get to the stuff outside of the LLM. You and I are two
00:30:54
chat bots for the most part. You're a good one. Thank you. I'm on a huge I'm on a huge platform
00:30:59
again, you know, but my claim is is that that's the really disturbing part that more or less we're LLMs. More or less we
00:31:06
don't do a single intelligent thing all day long. And the reason that they're able to mimic us is because we don't
00:31:11
realize that intelligence is a last resort for us. We try to automate
00:31:18
like, you know, if you think about greetings,
00:31:24
your assistant was very kind. I got out of a black car that you guys sent around and I was greeted with the phrase,
00:31:31
"There he is, the man, the myth." And I knew what was coming next, the legend. Right? because that is a sort of
00:31:38
humorous way of giving an intimate greeting, but it's still an LLM.
00:31:44
And I'm not saying that your assistant is an LLM. I'm saying that more or less what we do all day long is LLM
00:31:50
interactions. Hey buddy, how are you? Good. Good. Things have been really busy. How about
00:31:57
you? Well, I got some travel coming up. Kind of excited about it, but I have to get through some work first. I understand. That's an entirely scripted
00:32:04
conversation. That's why I'm trying to say that I want
00:32:09
to do podcasting that is outside of the LLM model. I don't want to do just dangerous, stupid stuff, but I want to
00:32:14
talk about things that I've never explored where I don't have something,
00:32:20
you know, ready. Do you think AI will ever break out of the
00:32:26
the LLM or will it expand? I think the LLMs will. I don't see I think that waiting for AGI
00:32:33
as the problem is a is a bad idea. I think the problems are going to get here far before AGI. I think even that the
00:32:40
AGI expectation is something we're trained to do. Do you think AGI is
00:32:45
coming? Do you think we'll survive AGI? Will AGBI be good or bad? All of that's pre-programmed into you. Why do you Why
00:32:51
are you waiting for AGI? Did you not alpha fold three? Did you Did you track
00:32:57
that? Do you know about this? Is that Was that the chess game? the well it's the chess game that became the protein folding game. All right.
00:33:03
You want to talk about great games? Protein folding. Now that's a game. I have no no knowledge of this at all.
00:33:08
Okay. What do you know about proteins? Very little. Okay. Think about proteins as tiny
00:33:14
machines. Yeah. That there's copying machine. There's a a scissors and a shearing machine.
00:33:20
There's a a light making machine. All sorts of things. And all of those
00:33:25
machines are weirdly coded. Imagine that you had like a a children's
00:33:31
show and uh a bunch of girl superheroes. They all had necklaces with uh 20
00:33:37
different kinds of beads around their neck. And so when they needed a machine, they'd take off the necklace, they'd
00:33:43
throw it into a thing called a ribosome, the ribosome would take these 20 kinds of pearls and suddenly it would build
00:33:49
you a car or a spaceship or a gun or who knows what. Well, that's that's that's the story of DNA, RNA, and uh and
00:33:57
protein. The only thing is, isn't it weird that a linear sequence suddenly crumples up
00:34:03
into a three-dimensional object that does something? So, for example, I don't have you ever seen um these Turkish
00:34:10
rabbits that glow in the dark? No. Okay. So, they took green fluorescent protein out of jellyfish.
00:34:16
Yeah. and they uh spliced them into the nucleic acids of rabbits and the Turks
00:34:24
bred all of these glow-in-the-dark bunnies. And what that is is a structure. So there's there's something
00:34:31
called secondary structure and protein where sometimes you get these spirals called alpha helyses. And then sometimes
00:34:37
you get a two-dimensional sheet that's made from taking uh a switchback in in
00:34:43
strings of amino acids. And then if you wrap that around, you don't have a beta sheet, you have a beta barrel. And these
00:34:48
beta barrels are the glow-in-the-dark aspect of green fluorescent protein. Okay? And
00:34:56
what we didn't know was how a series of acts and G's could code for sequences of
00:35:03
amino acids could form three-dimensional structures. So if you just read DNA, you
00:35:08
didn't know, well, that's going to be a a sports car. Yeah. Alphold figured it out. For the most
00:35:15
part, like to a to an enormous extent, humans were stuck there. And what does that mean?
00:35:21
It means that you could uh I don't know, you could target your enemies that have particular regions uh on their cell
00:35:27
surfaces and you could come up with proteins that only attach to them and attack. It could mean anything. Could
00:35:32
mean nanoobots. I don't know what it means, but my point is is that that's already here and
00:35:39
you're not focused on it. And you're thinking AGI. And the funny part is is that's your LLM that got
00:35:47
programmed to wait for AGI. Well, I heard, you know, people that I think are very smart, much smarter than
00:35:52
me talk about the Don't listen to them. Elon, sure. I mean, he he says that it's our biggest
00:35:58
existential threat is a AI. Elon
00:36:04
has become the outsourcing for much of our intelligence. And if Elon means anything to you,
00:36:11
he's really saying to you, "Don't listen to me. Do something remarkable."
00:36:17
He's saying, "Where is everybody? Why is there only one Elon?
00:36:22
There used to be lots of them?" Why is there only one Elon?
00:36:28
Yeah, not the right question. Where where did all the other Elons go? Same question, is it not?
00:36:35
No, I think that the why is there only one Elon makes Elon feel more singular. You know, if you ever get a chance to go
00:36:41
to Capidokia or Bryce National Park in Utah, you see what happens, which is
00:36:47
that you'll have a stone that was resting on the soil and suddenly the wind starts to erode everything except
00:36:53
the compactified soil right under that stone and you get what's called a ferry chimney or a hood. And so the claim is
00:37:00
is that sometimes you get these isolated structures And the key point is everything else
00:37:06
eroded away. We're supposed to have tons of Elon
00:37:14
and everybody else got taken out. What or who took them out?
00:37:22
Look at how much trouble Elon has being Elon. Look, we keep hearing about him. You
00:37:28
know, he's on drugs. Great. take drugs. No,
00:37:34
I'm not kidding. Do you know how many amazing people take drugs?
00:37:39
If you care about jazz, jazz is a whole, you know, it's a history of drugs. Whenever I'm listening to Ray Charles,
00:37:45
I'm hearing heroin. Okay. What are they doing at Burning
00:37:50
Man? They're trying to live luxuriously under
00:37:55
oppression simultaneously luxuriously and as dirty and disgusting as you'll ever be. Hopefully, they're having tons
00:38:03
of eye-opening, mind-bending experiences chasing some way of getting out of the
00:38:10
LLM. And you know, my feeling about this is
00:38:15
it's not even honest. I I I believe that Elon, for example, does understand that
00:38:21
population and growth is really important, but I also think he just enjoys making babies. And in in a weird
00:38:28
way, this idea of I'm going to have an empire of my children is a forbidden
00:38:33
concept. Try explaining that to HR. You know, it's like, what did you say at
00:38:40
work? So, the key point is Elon is barely able to be Elon.
00:38:45
Do you think we're overestimating the impact AI is going to have? Because people, you know, a lot of
00:38:51
people see as this really fundamentally transformative. No. You don't think we're underestimating it?
00:38:56
I think it's going to be I I I think that what AI means to us is
00:39:02
is bizarre. We've we've come up with this whole script about AGI and
00:39:09
it's going to take everything we do that's repetitive is on the chopping block. And since almost everything we do
00:39:17
is repetitive, we don't need to get to AGI. We just need to do things where lots of people
00:39:23
create lots of repetitive data and then we tokenize it. We train the AI on the
00:39:29
tokens and then for the most part it says, you know, it it doesn't matter. It can be a photograph. It can be music.
00:39:36
Whatever it is, amino acids, just give me a large enough data set and let me add it and, you know, take a hike for
00:39:43
for a little while. I'll train on it and then I'll know how to do that. You know what? It's bad at things that where
00:39:49
there isn't much data. So I I just I just found out about these orphan proteins where like everybody's
00:39:57
got a different version of hemoglobin. Mhm. But you know the the quadinary structure
00:40:02
of he hemoglobin is these four hem groups you know four different proteins around a central element. What happens
00:40:10
when you have a protein that has no analog anywhere else? The the system doesn't have the ability to learn it.
00:40:17
If if I train you on the blues and you find out what a 12 bar blues progression is, then you find out that there's a
00:40:23
variation where this, you know, the second bar goes to the fourth rather than just staying on the one for four
00:40:28
bars. And then sometimes the fourth bar has a seven in it to create tension. Okay? So, it's going to learn every
00:40:33
single form of the blues like that. And because there's a large corpus of
00:40:39
that stuff, it's going to get really good at blues music, you know, as a but if you take something
00:40:45
that basically never happens, it's not going to have an easy ability to train and give you more.
00:40:51
So I think that AI is almost certainly going to transform
00:40:57
the economy because everything that we we know how to do through education creates repetitive behaviors.
00:41:04
We don't know how to educate for creativity and genius. We know how to educate for doing higher level things.
00:41:10
So radiology is a great example. Radiologists are, you know, some of the
00:41:15
first uh in the crosshairs. I'm going to stare at some imaging
00:41:21
and I'm going to say, I think that's a tumor. I think that's benign. And it's
00:41:27
going to say, just give me give me give me all of these tokens. Like, well, they're x-rays. They're cats. No, no,
00:41:32
they're just tokens. So, yeah. It's going to start to automate away
00:41:39
every repetitive behavior and then what's going to be left is the tiny number of things that aren't really
00:41:44
highly repetitive or things where we really care that a human does it. Very interesting what's happened with chess.
00:41:51
I don't know if you've been following chess. I loosely understand it mainly because I've spoken to a lot of AI
00:41:57
experts and they often reference chess as as an example where it was one of the first things that humans did that we really cared about
00:42:04
that fell. So they've been longer in the AI
00:42:11
tractor beam than any of the rest of us in some sense. How did it fall?
00:42:17
Through Deep Blue and IBM and Gary Kasparov. But does that mean that people people
00:42:23
aren't interested in chess anymore? What are you saying? No, no, no. That's the whole point. So Magnus Carlson, the greatest chess
00:42:30
player of our time and perhaps of all time, was on Joe Rogan and Joe asked him
00:42:35
the simple question, can your phone beat you? He's like, yeah, easily. So the point is, we can't compete
00:42:42
with, I don't know, Stockfish or what, whatever the top chess programs of our time. I don't know anymore. But nobody
00:42:48
cares about those programs except for AI experts. We care about the drama
00:42:55
of, you know, Anan versus Carlson,
00:43:02
two humans, two humans, because it's about us. We're we're very narcissistic in this way. And
00:43:09
so there was a period, and you know, this is something that my wife uh tried to popularize. So she said this
00:43:16
thing about the golden age of AI complimentarity where the AIs aren't good enough to take
00:43:22
over from us but they're amazing tools and so there's a period where we're
00:43:27
teamed up you know the prompt engineering revolution they're not good enough to come up with their own prompts
00:43:34
and a great example of this that she and I have been talking about is the cyborg chess era which is a period where humans
00:43:43
and the AI I could form teams that would do better, but at some point the AI just
00:43:49
looks at the human and says, "You're just holding me back." You've got two children.
00:43:54
Yeah. When they're thinking about their career prospects with all that you think and know and believe about the future that
00:44:00
we're heading towards, what what kind of career advice would you be giving to them? Oh, I've given them terrible career
00:44:06
advice. I give I gave them somewhat different career advice. So to my son,
00:44:12
my my advice was do the hardest most technical thing you possibly can do and
00:44:18
be prepared to use that ability, that facility in different ways than you're
00:44:24
you're honing it. But train yourself with my daughter. Um I think she cares
00:44:30
deeply about people and you know there's a typical male female divide. And I'm not, by the way, I'm not going to talk
00:44:37
overly much about them because I try to keep them out. But she is uh you know somebody who is
00:44:43
taking the same level of analytic ability but putting it in the service of
00:44:49
the law and trying to help people who are you know really unfortunate. She's very idealistic. And so at some level
00:44:56
the law is not going to allow us to have AI lawyers for quite some time. It's not
00:45:01
going to trust anything. We we've got jury uh trials and and judges and a
00:45:06
legal system that's written into our founding documents. To the average person, I would say get
00:45:14
your board in the water and prepare to paddle like all get out.
00:45:20
The tsunami of a lifetime is coming and nothing your elders have seen is going to prepare.
00:45:27
There's no good advice to give that's specific. Let's put it this way. But one of the things when people tell me about
00:45:33
their moving from one city to another, I have a phrase that nobody likes, which is every place is over.
00:45:40
Oh, I'm moving to Austin. Yeah, it's over. Miami, it's over. Nashville, over.
00:45:46
You know, all these places are over. And every occupation that is named is over.
00:45:52
I'm going to be a dentist, radiologist, accountant,
00:45:58
teacher. These are all over. whatever is coming. Get flexible. Get
00:46:06
good. Get good on a bunch of different stuff. Learn how to think across disciplines. I
00:46:13
have no idea what what's going to be left for us.
00:46:18
But, you know, somebody's going to come out on top.
00:46:23
And I I hate to tell people that you should try to come out on top. I don't think it's healthy to have
00:46:30
everyone trying to be world class. I think you should be able to just have
00:46:35
a life. Now, I have a golden retriever. I don't know that it's the greatest golden retriever in the world. Sometimes I
00:46:42
think it is, but it does a lot of dumb stuff. But he's my golden retriever. I just don't think it I think that this
00:46:50
mania for optimization. Like if you look at your own videos, you'll find some of the best performing videos are this is
00:46:58
how to succeed. This is how to get anyone you want. This is how to get out of a bad situation. People just want
00:47:05
capacity. But for what? Okay, you've optimized your day. You've
00:47:11
optimized your health. Your social media is optimized.
00:47:16
Now what? Now what? I don't know
00:47:22
what should be then say you know is it the is it time to just one would say
00:47:27
well now I one would incorrectly say well now I can play with my golden retriever and then one would say well you should have been playing with your
00:47:33
golden retriever the whole time let me put it a little differently
00:47:41
through some bizarre accident I've gotten a chance to meet incredible
00:47:47
people that I don't even talk about who I've met you You know, I've got a chance to see the world. I haven't seen South
00:47:54
America, but I've seen most the other continents other than the Antarctic.
00:48:00
I've had a really rich life.
00:48:05
Take somebody who hasn't had those opportunities, but they got a chance to have three
00:48:11
kids. I'm not sure I wouldn't trade places. I
00:48:16
so enjoyed raising my children. And it's available to everyone.
00:48:26
It's such a strange thing that we're talking about optimization, all this stuff. I I get to think about the the
00:48:31
substrate of the universe, theoretical physics. I dream about visiting the stars. I dream about multiple dimensions
00:48:38
of time, meeting aliens, all sorts of things.
00:48:45
I still think having kids was like unbeatable. I'm so sad that it's over. I'm so sad
00:48:53
that they moved out. I cannot believe that I was dumb enough to live in a society that doesn't believe in having
00:49:00
your kids with you your whole life. The idea that we look at places where kids live at home as backwards is beyond
00:49:07
me. And shout out to uh the entire Indian subcontinent,
00:49:14
you know. It's just like family is everything. They drive me crazy.
00:49:22
But it it's just meaning is available for you. And again,
00:49:30
you know, every time I get a chance to eat a rambutan, it's one of my favorite fruits. Mangoes, rambutans, jackf fruit,
00:49:38
sithafal if you can get custard apple. The amount of pleasure I get. I've never
00:49:44
had a good custard apple in the entire time I've lived in the US. Not one. I've had a frozen one imported from Taiwan.
00:49:52
You get this cheramoya. Just get out of here chairoya. You're not good.
00:49:58
Great custard apple. Great sith follow. What a pleasure to be on this earth. and
00:50:04
it's available to almost anyone. I just think that you can find meaning,
00:50:10
you know, for God's sakes, go to Spotify if you have a a connection, if you can afford a connection to Spotify and put
00:50:17
in Pablo Casal's version of the Boach Cello Suites. You're as rich as you need to be. I've
00:50:25
flown private. I'd much prefer to listen to Pablo Casal playing the the jealous
00:50:31
suites in economy than to be to be to be deprived of real luxury.
00:50:37
I don't know. I just to me meaning is everywhere. I can't swing a cat without hitting
00:50:44
meaning. Have you always been like that or is that something that you've cultivated?
00:50:50
the point about being able to swing a cat and find meaning. So many people that would be listening now could swing a a 100 mile stick and wouldn't hit
00:50:58
meaning in their lives. But you seem to be able to find it in the the purer things, the more simple things. And I'm
00:51:05
wondering if that's something that we can all cultivate with a change of perspective or if it's just the way that you've always been.
00:51:12
Why is Joe Rogan such a big deal? You ever listen to Joe Rogan talk about pugilism? Two gentlemen beating the crap
00:51:20
out of each other as poetry, as chess.
00:51:28
I could listen to Joe talk about MMA for days. Yeah.
00:51:34
You know, the story of Mighty Mouse, the guy trapped in some, I don't know, flyweight division with unbelievable
00:51:41
skills who never gets to meet a formidable enemy, you know?
00:51:48
Do you think that's a privilege? Do you think that there's a privilege in being able to craft a story? Because so much
00:51:53
of the meaning you're describing there comes from these great stories. And not everybody is able to craft the story
00:52:00
upon seeing something. You probably look at this item in front of me, this glass, and create a story about it that drives
00:52:06
meaning that makes you feel something. I worry about its manufacturer. How is it that we got a surface of revolution?
00:52:12
What is what is the industrial process? How do I take a picture of this and get a a photograph of the machine that made
00:52:18
it. You know that fly that has been buzzing around us this entire interview? Yeah. Do you remember when Obama had a fly?
00:52:24
Yeah. And he caught it in Wow. Yeah. The confidence of that man.
00:52:29
See, I'd try that and I'd miss and I'd screw it up in front of millions of people,
00:52:34
you know? It's like I I took so much meaning away from that fly. Were you trying to or is that just a
00:52:41
sort of pre We all did. Not everyone. Some people would have gone. How was it that you knew exactly
00:52:48
what I was talking about? Because he captured a moment.
00:52:54
He was the girl in the red dress. You know, there's this thing that women say, not every woman can wear red. Well, not
00:53:00
every man can grab a fly with confidence.
00:53:07
I I think I think we all see this. I think we all see beauty everywhere. You
00:53:13
remember that movie American Beauty with the the plastic bag that gets in the air funnel going up?
00:53:21
And the key point is the ability just to see beauty wherever you find it.
00:53:27
You know, everything behind you means something to me. The letter B uh is
00:53:33
strange to me that there's only one phonetic alphabet and that every phonetic alphabet is descended from it,
00:53:39
you know. I I I basically view everything as a
00:53:45
hyperlink. I just want to click on the world and see what it goes to. Not everybody does though.
00:53:51
But we do. They don't make the step is what I'm saying. Because people would see the bee and nothing would cross their,
00:53:57
you know, it's funny. There's an absolutely horrible account
00:54:02
that has been just dogging me for years trying to make my life miserable.
00:54:07
And a social media account. Yeah. Doesn't matter. Yeah.
00:54:12
And the person said, "You know, one thing I just never understand is
00:54:18
he's not he's not hawking a book.
00:54:24
He He's just talking. Why Why are his numbers high?"
00:54:30
The answer is everybody cares about this stuff. They want an invitation.
00:54:35
One of the funniest things that gets said about me on social media is he goes on forever and he never says anything
00:54:41
and then like I look at the word clouds of things that I' I've talked about and people are just googling everything
00:54:46
incessantly. You know, if you didn't know who Pablo Cassals was, now you do. Now you know what a real chis sounds like. Um
00:54:55
I don't know. I just I can't believe that I'm so far through
00:55:01
this life that there's so little left.
00:55:07
I can't believe this doesn't go on forever.
00:55:15
My people just got hit and
00:55:21
you know you want to talk about the river and the sea,
00:55:27
that river is not the Jordan River and that sea is not the Mediterranean.
00:55:34
The Arab world stretches from the Atlantic with Morocco
00:55:39
right up to the what is it Shhat Alabia waterway that divides Iraq from Iran.
00:55:47
And I don't think this is stable.
00:55:53
There is no way in which we should be fighting like this. This is
00:55:59
ridiculous.
00:56:04
Trump Trump used the F-word. I mean, he's getting taking a ton of crap. Why
00:56:11
would you use the F word? Well, isn't it interesting that people view Trump as so tacky?
00:56:17
You know, he's he's got this Queen's sort of bluster. He doesn't doesn't of
00:56:22
uh finalist clubs at Harvard or Skull and
00:56:27
Bones or whatever. No, Trump doesn't use the F-word for a
00:56:34
reason. That he needs it once in a blue moon and it better mean something.
00:56:39
And he said this to Iran and he said this to Israel. These two two countries have been fighting for so long. They
00:56:48
don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing. He didn't make a mistake. The rest of
00:56:54
the world has just forgotten how to calibrate. What do you see Trump in? How is he
00:56:59
clothed? He's almost always in a suit and tie and he almost never says the f- word.
00:57:06
And it's carefully calibrated to get everybody's attention. And we're so asleep that we don't even hear it.
00:57:14
This is World War III and it's already started.
00:57:21
Biden was there in the Oval Office.
00:57:27
non-compassment meant and I was being told don't worry there's a a committee that has replaced him
00:57:35
because I was talking about the fact that he can't be president. I I just don't know what we're doing.
00:57:41
I'm so mystified by everybody else. You know, it's like Elon makes sense to me.
00:57:50
I'm not Elon. I'm very different person, but at least Elon makes sense to me.
00:57:55
Not 100% but 98% Elon makes sense to me. It's everybody else that I'm completely confused about.
00:58:01
What part of what Elon is saying makes so much sense to you? Oh jeez. Everything. One, we have to
00:58:07
have babies. We have to keep going. Two, we it can't all be about problems.
00:58:14
You have to be excited to be alive every morning. You have to work your ass off your whole
00:58:21
life. You want to know one of the most beautiful things that ever happened? Somebody telling Elon that he was the world's richest human being. He said,
00:58:28
"Huh, it's interesting." Okay, back to work.
00:58:36
Amazing, right? There's no reward that he can't have
00:58:43
more of by stopping work and enjoying his wealth except doing stuff. And
00:58:51
I was born in this country. My parents were born in this country. My
00:58:57
grandparents on one side were not, but my grandparents on the other side were. Elon is so American.
00:59:07
That cowboy spirit that it he does all sorts of stuff I
00:59:12
can't stand. I don't want to see one more of those Pepe memes ever. I really don't. What the [ __ ] is his problem?
00:59:19
Okay, I don't know him at all, but Elon at his best is is the United
00:59:27
States. You know, anything is possible here. And
00:59:33
we and we just waste our lives on interpersonal drama.
00:59:39
He wastes his life to an enormous extent as a troll.
00:59:44
I cannot. That's the part of him that I don't understand is one why he's not focused 100% on physics. I think he sees
00:59:52
it as going through grock and AI. He doesn't want to trust humans. I think he sees Mars as energizing to engineers and
00:59:59
the stars are innovating to engineers because the science there's no amount of engine you can't engineer your way to
01:00:04
the stars with the science we have. But he's he's being a complete [ __ ]
01:00:10
when it comes to science and he's being a total hero when it comes to engineering. Um,
01:00:18
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01:01:11
A second ago you said you can't believe it doesn't go on forever. Yeah.
01:01:17
You or the universe or I can't believe my story doesn't go on forever. Look, I've never died before so
01:01:22
I have no experience with it. So as far as I know, I've always been alive
01:01:28
and it'll always go on that way. But there's another thing that, you know, I I've talked about occasionally,
01:01:34
which is I'm not the most publicspirited human being.
01:01:40
You know, I I am somebody who will take the last the last rambutan,
01:01:45
you know, and I know that you're not supposed to do that in almost any culture on earth, but sometimes it just sitting there bothers me. Okay? So, I'm
01:01:52
not the I'm not the classiest person on earth, but I'll tell you something. If you have
01:01:57
a kid and you have a choice about eating the ramatan yourself or giving the rambatan to your child, this it's a
01:02:03
no-brainer. You you're going to enjoy the ramatan so much more if you give it to your kid
01:02:08
and you'll see. And that's the way in which this goes on forever.
01:02:18
That's great. I mean, just how many young people do I have to yell at?
01:02:24
I don't know if I want to have kids. I don't want to bring anyone into this horrible world.
01:02:30
Why do you have kids? It bothers you. I can see it personally bothers you.
01:02:38
Do you have any idea how much hate there is right now for Israel? Do you have any idea how destabilizing
01:02:45
this action against Iran was? Do you have any idea how many people
01:02:52
have suffered for how long under the mullers?
01:02:58
We are being cheated of Persia. I'm not talking about Iran for the
01:03:05
Persians. I'm talking about we are cheated of Persia. The entire planet,
01:03:12
one of the greatest societies on earth taken off the line. I look
01:03:19
You're catching me on the wrong week.
01:03:26
I I don't want to dwell on it. This is just incredibly irresponsible. We're not going to survive this.
01:03:34
Israel is certainly not going to survive this.
01:03:40
If the Abbramic world does not get its head out of its ass, if the Christian world does not start to stand up for
01:03:47
itself without becoming this Christ is king nightmare.
01:03:52
You know, I was in Tel Aviv before this all happened and I I just said it from the stage. Make the Middle East Christian again.
01:04:01
Does nobody understand their role is sort of my question. How can you have Bethlehem without a
01:04:09
strong Christian presence?
01:04:14
Have you ever been to the Church of the Holy Supplr? No. Can I give you another assignment?
01:04:19
Yeah. Get off your ass and go. You got the money. Walk the stations of the cross.
01:04:28
And for God's sakes, stop with the issue about belief.
01:04:33
You can pray like the rest of us. We're not sure if we're praying. We're not sure if the thing is hooked up and anyone's listening.
01:04:43
You have the right to go back even with doubt, even with knowledge. And you have
01:04:48
the right to believe about a tomorrow, you know, where where you're not going to be, but people are going to be mentioning your name.
01:04:55
When you say that your your people are under attack, who are you referencing as
01:05:00
your people? I would in general there's several
01:05:05
groups of people that I would describe as my people. The Jews would be one, dyslexics would be another, Americans
01:05:11
would be another, scientists would be another. It depends
01:05:16
on on what these things think. But right now, I'm thinking about the Jews and I'm thinking about the fact that the social
01:05:22
media businesses have lost complete control of
01:05:27
uh the bot farms and we're just seeing this unbel I I I feel like I'm living through the 1930s again. I I we've seen
01:05:36
this movie before. It doesn't end well. You know what happened in Gaza is an
01:05:43
unbelievable tragedy. And that tragedy was partially
01:05:48
architected by the United States of America shoving a two-state solution down the throats of Palestinian Arabs
01:05:55
who absolutely do not want a two-state solution
01:06:05
and the creation in part of the situation where Israel has a hand, the US has a hand, the Palestinian Arabs
01:06:12
have a hand. the creation of Hamas and and the promotion of this just
01:06:18
unbelievable genius Senoir, the leader of Hamas, who is continuing to best BB
01:06:24
Netanyahu from the grave. You know, it's just an amazing feat.
01:06:32
Nobody reads anymore, as you know. Um, there's an old Sherlock Holmes story called The Problem at Thor Bridge. You
01:06:39
ever heard of it? No. So, you're British. Um, Sherlock Holmes gets called in on a case
01:06:46
in which um there's a murder
01:06:54
and the murder is traced the murder is traced to this gentleman who still
01:07:00
exists. Uh
01:07:05
what Sherlock Holmes figures out is that it's not a murder, it's a suicide in which the gun will
01:07:14
fall into the river at Thor Bridge because it's tied to a weight and the
01:07:19
person uses the suicide to frame someone else. You know, it's
01:07:26
just one of these genius little vignettes. And that's what Senoir was. He was a a genius. He he knew he was
01:07:32
going to die. Who was Sinoir? Sinoir is the person who who's committed suicide. Sinir's suicide
01:07:39
was an IDF assisted suicide. I wrote about this almost instantly after the
01:07:45
October 7th invasion. It didn't make any sense that Gaza would undertake such an
01:07:51
act against Israel given the asymmetry. And what this mirrored was that before
01:07:56
the 1990s. So you think Sinoir committed suicide to then cause the people of Gaza
01:08:03
to invade Israel on No. Senoir would be happy enough for all the
01:08:09
Gazins to die. And so what he did was he architected a
01:08:14
situation in which Israel would be compelled to respond using the wrong
01:08:19
tools. He tricked Israel. And you know, I I'm
01:08:25
very confident to to talk about this because if you check my old tweets, I say IDF assisted suicide
01:08:33
and monken by proxy and zukwang, right? And I said these are the concepts. Familiarize yourself because Israel is
01:08:39
going to invade Gaza and I knew what was going to happen
01:08:44
because took me like why would you do this? It doesn't make sense from first order logic, but third and fourth order
01:08:51
logic, you're like, "Oh, of course it makes sense." This is hybrid war. The most important thing for Senoir is
01:08:56
video. Why? Look at the effect of the video. The
01:09:03
video of Gaza has turned the world to an extent against Israel that's sort of
01:09:09
inconceivable.
01:09:18
There's a doctrine called hybrid warfare and I think it came out of
01:09:24
the US in the early 2000s and it says that the kinetic component of warfare,
01:09:30
the killing, the actual shooting and the planes and the bombs and all this kind of stuff
01:09:35
is not the major component. The social media is really important.
01:09:43
The video is important. The mimedic complex is important.
01:09:48
And Israel has an advantage over the Gazan Arabs
01:09:56
in kinetic warfare. And Senoir knew that. He was like, "Brilliant.
01:10:02
All we need to do is force Israel to come after us." And this is this thing I was going to say before the 1990s we had
01:10:08
a spate of killings of policemen firing on people who had pulled toy guns on
01:10:14
them. And we would we would say things and I remember this like whatever you do don't point a toy gun at a policeman.
01:10:21
You're it's don't you realize what's going to happen? And then somebody coined the phrase
01:10:27
police assisted suicide. The policeman is the instrument.
01:10:35
That's what I knew was going to happen. And for better or for worse, BB just couldn't figure out where he was. And BB
01:10:43
was dumber and Senoir was smarter. Is there any way back from here? Because
01:10:49
you said this is World War II. Well, the the way there is, but it's slim and it's evaporating.
01:10:57
I mean, almost everything depends on Saudi Arabia and the and the Iranians,
01:11:02
the Persians. If the Persians didn't take this opportunity to rise up against their
01:11:07
oppressors, I don't know what they're waiting for. Yes, you're going to get killed in some
01:11:12
numbers, but you have to figure out whether you're interested in tyranny or not. So, the Persians are absolutely
01:11:19
falling down on the ground on the job, not rising up against the mullers. This
01:11:25
is a coordinated moment. Like, you know, there's there's a moment for a prison break. This would be it.
01:11:30
Who are the mullers in this city? the Ayatollas, the government. Yeah. The the theocratic government of Iran.
01:11:36
So, the rulers of Iran, basically, the people that are Okay. So, I don't know if if if you know a ton of Persians. They're varied in their
01:11:43
religiosity, but there's a you know, there's an underground gay scene in Thrron. There's
01:11:49
super hyperodern people just like you and me who can't stand these guys.
01:11:55
And so, you're saying that if they rise up, they would that would be one of the parts of the solution. The other thing
01:12:00
is Saudi Arabia and and I have to be very measured and careful here. Um,
01:12:07
you can't fantasize about the Middle East becoming Western Europe overnight.
01:12:13
Every time we do this, we make a terrible mistake. When you have a modernizer like MBS in Saudi Arabia,
01:12:20
who's the ruler of Saudi Arabia, right? Deacto. He can't
01:12:26
suddenly become a modern person. So, you know, if if we end up talking about Kosogible and murders and murdered
01:12:32
journalists and all this stuff, the whole conversation will derail. But he's a modernizer.
01:12:37
And there was a moment where he needed to not condemn Israel publicly and thank
01:12:44
it privately, but to say, "We've all been terrorized by this
01:12:50
country, and Israel did what everyone needed.
01:12:57
We needed to rise up against the mullers because you can't have a nuclear theocracy. You can't have a highly developed notion
01:13:04
of heaven where this is the this is the anti- room
01:13:09
where you're waiting to get into the real room. that issue
01:13:16
of needing to be rid of an as aspiring
01:13:21
nuclear theocracy something that in that Israel undertook
01:13:27
now something that I'm going to say there are three words in Yiddish which you may have heard or may not may not
01:13:34
and neb so there are three unfortunate people
01:13:40
you don't want to be any one of those three but the subtlety is that the schlamile is a klutz and the schlamile
01:13:48
spills hot soup on the schlamazle. So the schlamazle is the unfortunate person
01:13:53
to whom bad things happen and the neb is the weak ineffectual person who decides
01:13:59
that it's his job to clean up the mess. So the schmile spills the scalding hot
01:14:04
soup on the schlamasle and the neb cleans it up. Now, in the US, we've got
01:14:09
this terrible sort of Christian nationalist uh problem that we've developed, which
01:14:15
is what sometimes people call the woke right, where we have a bunch of people who've been badly treated.
01:14:22
White Christian Americans have been badly treated in the woke era. They've been forced to salute everybody else's,
01:14:29
you know, yay for uh, you know, I don't know, Honduran lesbians day. And and
01:14:35
it's like, okay, enough. we don't we don't want to do that anymore. We've also done great things and I absolutely
01:14:40
think that they've been mistreated. Yeah. And they've gone sort of metastatic and
01:14:47
their attitude is no more wars for Israel. America first. What I was
01:14:52
getting to with the Schlam Schlamas and Nebbeck is that most Americans don't have any idea who Kermit Roosevelt was.
01:14:59
Do you have any idea of who? So the US and the UK jointly overthrew a
01:15:06
democratically elector in Iran through something called Operation Ajax.
01:15:12
We installed the Shaw and then there's this period where everybody stupidly celebrates the miniskirts and the jazz
01:15:18
that was going through Tyrron which was a bridge too far. In other words, the miniskirts were a really bad
01:15:24
idea because they weren't they were ready for some amount of modernization and they weren't ready for that. And so
01:15:30
we pushed it too far and so we got the mullers for 40 years and now we chop off
01:15:35
people's fingers and we pluck out people's eyes and we put homosexuals on
01:15:41
ropes and dangle them from from cranes. They're barbaric bar they're horrible human beings. Okay, these are really bad
01:15:48
men, the mullers. And we did that. So the scalding hot
01:15:54
soup is revolutionary theocratic Iran. And we spilled it all
01:16:01
over the Middle East, which is the schlamazle. We spilled it on Saudi Arabia. We
01:16:07
spilled it on Iraq. We spilled it on Israel. Everybody suffers from having
01:16:13
these people installed because of the US and the UK instituting a problem back in
01:16:18
the 50s. And who's the ne who cleans this up? Israel volunteers
01:16:26
for this job. And then Saudi Arabia pretends, "Oh my god, this is terrible.
01:16:33
Our our Muslim brother is being attacked by our Jewish uh barbarian. I I I just
01:16:39
can't believe anybody's dumb enough to fall for all of this.
01:16:44
Like, we're involved in a story where nobody can sort things out. There's no talking heads anyone believes in. And if
01:16:51
I didn't understand this, then how is it that I have a tweet from, you know, 10
01:16:56
days after October 7th or I appeared on trigonometry. I'm telling you, Israel hasn't even walked into Gaza yet. And I
01:17:02
know what the strategy is. Iran sent hypersonic missiles into the
01:17:10
ground in Israel as a message. Violence is a language. And they spoke
01:17:16
it well. the the mullers may be crazy, but they're still Persians. They're they're extraordinarily skilled. And so
01:17:24
what they did is they wasted some of their arsenal saying, "You have no Iron Dome.
01:17:30
And we're not going to kill you. We're going to put our missiles, we're going to waste our missiles by sending them
01:17:36
into your Earth and try to kill no one." And the Israelis, these brilliant,
01:17:41
genius Israelis who pull off all sorts of things that the world can't believe, are dumb enough, some of them, to say,
01:17:49
"Huh, they sent all these missiles and they couldn't even hit anyone." And I'm just thinking,
01:17:55
do do none of you understand anything? I I just don't even know where I am.
01:18:03
And I'm looking at, you know, I I know Tulsi. Tulsi got it. Yeah, Tulsi is amazing.
01:18:09
She's the head of the intelligence program for the United States. Director of national intelligence,
01:18:15
right? Tulsi has seen the devastation not of
01:18:21
war, but of US action abroad. Like we haven't really had full wars, but we get
01:18:26
involved in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever. And and you know, people die and there are firefights. It's not like
01:18:32
it has nothing to do with war, but full-on war is is a very different thing. We we say the Iraq war, but I I I
01:18:39
want to be very careful about the language. You know, war usually involves
01:18:44
you getting rocked at home, not just your your troops abroad.
01:18:51
I don't think she I don't think she appreciates the gravity of the situation that somehow
01:18:58
what we need to do is we need to stabilize this thing for 50 to 100 years
01:19:04
while we desperately try to figure out a long-term solution. This idea of like just
01:19:14
we're not taking responsibility for the world we already screwed up. I don't want to send Americans I, you
01:19:21
know, I'm not an Israeli, I'm an American. I don't want to send my fellow Americans to die in foreign battles that
01:19:28
we have no business being in. But we have to take ownership of our history with oil and energy in the Middle East.
01:19:35
And what does that look like? Taking ownership? Recognizing that we created the mullas
01:19:40
and doing what about it? And wait, wait a second, not just that. and that we also created a lot of the heartache along with Sinoir and to a
01:19:48
much lesser extent Israel by forcing this two-state solution
01:19:54
on people who would never put up with it. Like I I lived in in Israel for two
01:19:59
years, and you would have conversations with Arabs, some of whom are Israelis,
01:20:06
you know, and they would say, "Look, you know, you just don't understand the West Bank, and you don't understand the difference between the West Bank and
01:20:12
Gaza, and they would tell me straight up, you're going to get us all killed with
01:20:18
this two-state solution. Stop it."
01:20:23
And I, you know, it's very hard for me to hear, but we're just having a child's
01:20:29
conversation about the Middle East. And I will say this about the UK.
01:20:36
The British Foreign Service had a different failure mode than the US. They really learned the regions.
01:20:44
They learned the dialects of the languages of the countries that they were involved in. The British Empire
01:20:50
took many places that they were involved in seriously and they have a very
01:20:55
complicated legacy. You know, I'm I spent a lot of time in Bombay and there's a lot of debate among very
01:21:02
educated Indians about figuring out how to think about the the British legacy, all of the great
01:21:08
institutional structures that were built, all of the prejudice and bigotry.
01:21:14
Why was such a small country able to colonize such a large land? Basically
01:21:19
working with the locals. You know, it's a rich conversation. We're having childlike conversations about all of
01:21:25
this. I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, but
01:21:30
it's just a very weird thing that we're we can't get anybody's attention.
01:21:36
You can't even get my attention. You know, I'm watching hypersonic missiles slam into the places I just was
01:21:46
and then I'm watching a cat video
01:21:51
and then I'm trying to figure out what to order through Uber Eats and it's just like I can't stay focused.
01:21:58
It's really important to put this um to put this right. And the US screwed up
01:22:04
the Middle East along with the UK really good. And we have a lot of responsibility. And if we want to go
01:22:09
isolationist, I understand that. But you first have to put back the chicken soup
01:22:15
that you spilled. And how'd you do that? I'm not sure. I'm not the director of national intelligence. I'm not I'm not
01:22:22
the secretary of defense. I'm not in the Oval Office. I mean, you know, it's very weird. I was workmates with JD Vance,
01:22:31
you know. These these are people who are, you know, Bobby Kennedy lives one canyon
01:22:37
over from me in Los Angeles. The people around
01:22:43
power in the US,
01:22:49
Godspeed, you know, just just wish them well. I don't care what party you're in,
01:22:55
but to to try to sabotage Trump or sabotage Tulsi or sabotage Pete Hex, I
01:23:02
these guys need to figure this out and they need to be at a totally different level. And is figuring it out peace in the
01:23:08
region, you know, the peace with between Egypt and Israel is a shitty, crappy, horrible
01:23:14
peace, but it's peace. It's not a loving relationship.
01:23:21
It's not a question of everybody going back and forth between the two countries saying, you know, we used to be enemies,
01:23:27
now we're friends. It's a lousy, cold peace. I'll take it.
01:23:33
We need to have peace between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs who can live in peace. And we need the people who cannot
01:23:40
live in peace. We need to find someplace else for them to be. It is absolutely imperative. And by the
01:23:48
way, this goes for the Israelis. there are small number of hardcore Israeli settlers who cannot live uh you know in
01:23:55
peace with their neighbors and it's very important that the people who cannot live in peace not be there.
01:24:01
Do we need to go to are are you suggesting that we focus on regime change in Iran?
01:24:09
That is really the responsibility of the Persians. So I want to I want to get clear on what
01:24:16
you see as a solution because you're saying the Persian people have to rise up. the US need to care but not get involved in that regime change.
01:24:23
I'm saying that a bunch of things need to happen if we're to have a long-term solution.
01:24:29
I make you president tomorrow. I hate when people do this. But I it's the clearest way of understanding the actions you would
01:24:35
First of all, if I was president tomorrow, I sure as hell wouldn't be on a podcast discussing strategy with you.
01:24:41
Trump does it. Yeah. I decline to answer all sorts of questions on camera. Fair. Yeah. So my feeling is is that you do a
01:24:49
lot more behind closed doors and this idea of just handing people you're the king of the world. What do you do
01:24:55
tomorrow to stop you? It's like don't do that to me because it's just it's a no-win question. If I was going to I I
01:25:01
do a lot of Straussian communication. I'd meet with people in private. I'd use lots of carrots and sticks. I try to use
01:25:07
long range thinking and I wouldn't tell you what my plan is. And by the way, I
01:25:12
very much respect Donald Trump in certain ways. One of which is is that and this confuses our friend Sam Harris
01:25:19
no end. Sam is always like, "Well, he's not being truthful. He's not making sense." He's a negotiator.
01:25:25
You don't sit down to a negotiation with an open book saying, "Let me make sense to you."
01:25:31
You sit there saying, "You don't know what I'm going to do next. You don't know how big the stick is. You don't know how much carrot there is. Maybe I'm
01:25:38
prepared to give you more. Maybe my stick isn't as big as you think. Or maybe it's twice as big." Do you think
01:25:44
anyone has good answers? I'll be honest. I think that Trump is in
01:25:49
part respected because he has some intuitions about this stuff.
01:25:55
His intuition is not to say everything. His intuition is that negotiation is
01:26:01
more important than transparency. And at a time when everybody's craving
01:26:06
transparency, tell me everything. No, I'm not going to tell you
01:26:11
everything. I'm going to try to save some children today. I'm going to threaten. I'm going to
01:26:18
cajol. I'm going to do all sorts of things. And and you know, that's what I'd do. I
01:26:25
would I would assemble the best people around me. I would stop giving so many press conferences. I wouldn't tweet
01:26:31
every 4 seconds. I'd be extremely strategic about it. But
01:26:38
you know, the situation in Tel Aviv and in Gaza makes me sick to my stomach.
01:26:46
And and in Ukraine, almost all of my DNA comes from Ukraine.
01:26:54
At least passed through it. I've been there.
01:26:59
And you know, Russians in Ukraine, Ukraine used to be
01:27:05
known as little Russia. This is a How are we sitting here
01:27:12
watching this? What [ __ ] decided in 2004
01:27:18
that we were just going to hand full Article 5 status
01:27:23
to former Soviet republics without consequence.
01:27:31
It is not the case that I don't I would love to have Estonia, Latvia, and
01:27:37
Lithuania in NATO. Not at this cost.
01:27:47
Look, the world is a brutal, brutal place.
01:27:56
We've gotten really bad at at international understandings.
01:28:03
I can't stand what's happened to Europe. Europe has been completely denatured.
01:28:11
We're we're playing with fire everywhere. And I just I don't know how to talk about it because every time I
01:28:17
talk about things where I'm the only person who sounds like this, it's bad for my life.
01:28:26
Look, if if you're in general a Ukraine hawk and you say, you know, we need to
01:28:31
make sure that Ukraine is completely supported so that they don't give an inch of territory. Yeah, you'll take a
01:28:37
lot of crap, but you'll be in a large group. And if you basically have the idea that Russia, you know, was minding its own
01:28:43
business and the US was encircling it and good Russia, bad US,
01:28:50
you'll have a lot of company for that perspective. I don't sound like any of that.
01:28:56
The most important thing is to stabilize the world again. And we're not going to get another chance like World War II if
01:29:02
we're not smart. We're crazy to give up this order that we have. And again, you
01:29:07
know, one more time I'm talking about this stuff. And I don't want to be talking about this stuff. Elon is 100%
01:29:13
right. We can't talk about problems all the time. It's cheap meaning.
01:29:20
There's an entire universe to explore and we're sitting here focused on our
01:29:26
own drama always and I'm getting sucked into it. I don't want
01:29:32
I want to be talking about traveling through time and space
01:29:37
using Easter eggs and hidden features of what we thought was the space-time continuum.
01:29:44
Because I talked about ketosis on this podcast and ketones, a brand called Ketone IQ sent me their little product
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stephvenbartlet.stan.store and get yours set up within minutes. I've got this uh
01:31:41
this picture that I came across. Tell me. Um well, I'd love you to tell me. This
01:31:46
is the flower of life geometric model. And I was I was reading through some of
01:31:52
your work and I came across this sentence that said you'd kept a secret for 30 years
01:31:58
in terms of your belief about the nature of the reality that we live in and that you thought maybe it was more than just
01:32:04
the dimensions we experience. Maybe there was 14 dimensions. I've always I wonder this a lot, you
01:32:10
know, because we we're fixated on problems. We're fixated on what we see and what we hear and what we feel. But I
01:32:15
wonder sometimes if if even that is an illusion. I I've spent a lot of time actually thinking recently about the simulation theory and is this whole
01:32:22
reality just some simulation on some kid's video game in another dimension.
01:32:27
Um so I thought you know you're a physicist. Do me a favor. Put that in a triangle pattern here. Okay. So we have three
01:32:33
mugs. Think of those as vertices of a tetrahedrin and think of this coaster
01:32:39
floating here as the fourth vertex. Mhm. For every two vertices. So the number of
01:32:46
vertices we would agree is four. Yeah. What's what does verticy mean? Points. Yeah. 1 2 3 four.
01:32:53
Idealize these three things and this as points. Mhm. Draw a line segment between all of these
01:33:00
four vertices. How many line segments are there? One, two, three, four, five, six. Six.
01:33:10
Yep. So there's six edges, four vertices. How many triangular faces that
01:33:16
have three vertices on them? Oh, four. Yeah. This is how to think about the
01:33:22
actual dimensions that we have open to us. The four faces we know about.
01:33:27
The key point that I was trying to get at is I don't believe that you just have the four dimensions. I believe that you
01:33:35
have all six edges are dimensions and all four vertices are also
01:33:42
dimensions. I'm talking about a hidden world.
01:33:48
It's very interesting. Physics has gone stagnant in terms of how we usually measure progress. The the way we measure
01:33:55
progress is the change in something called the action or the lrangeian the
01:34:00
specialized device and that used to change a lot and then in 1973 it stopped changing.
01:34:07
The major thing that we have is we have no new ideas about how to change the lrangeian that anybody finds that
01:34:16
exciting or interesting. So there's been no progress. Nobody goes to Stockholm to get a Nobel Prize because they changed
01:34:21
the lrangeian of the world. What's the langrian? The lrangeian.
01:34:27
So you probably think about physics in terms of equations like Maxwell's equations or the Einstein equations or
01:34:34
whatever. Think about an equation as being not the primary thing that
01:34:42
physicists think about. So I give this example. The Beatles had four basically
01:34:47
different configurations. When Ringo was the front man, he was
01:34:52
singing Octopus's Garden. George Harrison is singing While My Guitar Gently Weeps. You know, uh Paul is
01:35:00
singing about Penny Lane and John is singing about Strawberry Fields Forever. Those four equations,
01:35:07
those would be those different configurations of the Beatles with one of them front and everybody else backing
01:35:12
the front man would be the equations. But the Beatles would be the Lrangeian. It's the thing
01:35:18
that generates the four different configurations. Okay? And there's this bizarre force
01:35:24
field that anybody who wants to talk about physics and doing something new in
01:35:29
particular leaving or traversing time or multiple dimensions of time. Anything
01:35:36
that's really close to what might be possible gets slammed.
01:35:43
We don't know why because it's very cheap to explore ideas
01:35:49
and we have no new ideas. But the only thing about a new idea in
01:35:55
physics is that a new idea changes the balance of power in the world. Do you
01:36:00
remember the thing I was saying about Alpha Fold 3? Yeah. Alpha Fold 3 changed the balance of power in the world. Bitcoin changed the
01:36:06
balance of power in the world. The diffuse proposal from the ecoalth alliance
01:36:14
changed the balance of power in the world if that was the source of the co virus.
01:36:19
Anytime somebody has a really big idea and the biggest idea and you know I talk
01:36:25
about this people don't grasp it probably the most dangerous thought anyone has ever had
01:36:33
was Rutherford in 1911 saying I wonder whether
01:36:38
there's a neutral version of the proton.
01:36:44
It doesn't sound dangerous, but it's hard to send a proton into a
01:36:50
bunch of protons because it's positively charged and a massive nucleus is really positively charged. And so there's a
01:36:56
repulsion. If there's a neutral version of the proton, and these things are barely
01:37:01
stuck together with a strong force, even though they're trying to scream away from each other because they want they're all positively charged, you can
01:37:08
send a neutral version of the proton right into the center. tap and just imagine you have a bunch of
01:37:14
magnets that are trying to flee from each other and the velcro around them is barely holding it together. So now you
01:37:19
you have a bullet in the form of a neutral proton, a neutron, and it hits this thing where the magnets want to
01:37:25
come apart and the velcro is barely holding it together. Well, that idea
01:37:30
led to the chain reaction and the nuclear bomb. Well, that that was the fision bomb and
01:37:37
then a geometer. So I'm a geometer and not a physicist. And a physicist named
01:37:43
Edward Teller and the geometer is named Stannis Loss Ulong
01:37:48
said, "I wonder if there's a way to take the chemical bomb that creates the
01:37:54
fision bomb and use the fision bomb as the detonator for a fusion bomb."
01:38:01
So bomb number one, bomb number two, bomb number three. And what they figured
01:38:06
out was is that the only way to create that is to reflect light
01:38:14
in a particular way to compress hydrogen into helium and release
01:38:20
energy because anything other than light wouldn't get to this the tertiary stage
01:38:27
fast enough before the atomic bomb like you're using a Hiroshima Nagasaki as a
01:38:33
detonator. That's how crazy it is. So that chain of ideas, which is maybe
01:38:39
there's a neutral version of the proton, maybe I can send that into the middle of an atom that's very heavy that was built
01:38:45
in a stellar collision. Maybe if I have a bunch of those uranium or plutonium type things, each one when
01:38:52
they break apart will have more neutrons inside. That is more neutral protons that will hit more nuclei that will
01:38:58
release more energy. And maybe that can then focus the light, the gamma radiation that comes off of this thing
01:39:04
or who knows what to compress a narrow rod to create
01:39:10
fusion which only occurs on the sun in the sun but but do it on Earth. So we're going to take a little bit of the sun on
01:39:17
Earth. That chain of ideas was the most dangerous thing anybody's
01:39:23
ever thought. And that's why when you try to do physics, you don't know. Why are people
01:39:30
making fun of me? Why are they being mean? Why are they dissuading me from talking? I don't know.
01:39:37
You have a suspicion. Well, there was a guy named Jack Raper, the unfortunately named Mr. Jack Raper,
01:39:44
who was a reporter in Cleveland who for some reason during the war in 1944 decided to vacation in New Mexico.
01:39:52
So he goes to New Mexico and he comes back and he says, "I've got a crazy story.
01:39:58
There's a city that nobody knows about with a mayor who's supposed to be the second Einstein
01:40:04
and it's the most secretive city in the world. And the mayor is working on a doomsday weapon and even the people who
01:40:11
live in the city don't know what it is." And he writes the story of Los Alamos and publishes it in 1944.
01:40:18
The scoop of the millennium to say nothing of the century. Nobody knows about this article and it's called
01:40:24
Forbidden City. We pretended that it never happened.
01:40:31
For those that don't know, Los Alamos is where the atomic the nuclear bomb was, I guess, conceived and brought to life and
01:40:38
tested. Well, it was really it was really designed there and most of the nuclear
01:40:46
processing took place at other sites, whether Hanford or Oakidge, I'm not sure.
01:40:52
And it was tested a short distance away uh at the Trinity site. So go watch the
01:40:58
movie Oenheimer if you will. But this is why physics physicists are the only occupation in the country that doesn't
01:41:05
have full free speech. So, are you suggesting that there's dangers in believing in more dimensions
01:41:13
that maybe some people might not want to be known in the same way that we didn't
01:41:18
want the My point is I don't think our government knows the real secrets of physics. If I
01:41:26
had to make a bet tomorrow, I don't think there's a secret government office that knows physics.
01:41:34
Okay. Mhm. I think that there were a bunch of very smart people who knew how dangerous
01:41:39
physics was and that the idea that we would continue to do it in public struck
01:41:44
them as insane because it could lead to destruction. When I tell you that the most dangerous
01:41:51
idea in human history is maybe there's a neutral version of the proton, that's supposed to sound insane.
01:41:57
But the entire chain of ideas results
01:42:03
in nuclear fusion happening on Earth at the direction of the president of the United States. And that's what I'm
01:42:10
trying to get at which people don't understand which is you probably don't even realize that the department of
01:42:15
energy is really the department of physics because we we we pretend that it's the
01:42:21
department of energy. Like we had a war department that became the department of defense. We're scared of the possibility
01:42:27
of physics. We don't even want to talk about it. The the literally no other occupation
01:42:38
has lost free speech like physics. There's a special doctrine called
01:42:43
restricted data that says you cannot
01:42:51
write physics on a napkin even if you have nothing to do with the
01:42:56
government. I think even if you're not an American if it has anything that could possibly
01:43:02
have to do with nuclear weapons. In other words, any advance that might have to do with nuclear
01:43:09
weapons, you have to recognize that the instant you put pen to paper or you start
01:43:15
talking to somebody, you're committing a violation of the 1917 Espionage Act.
01:43:22
And if you think that's crazy, start exploring the words restricted data, 1917 Espionage Act, 1946 and 1954 Atomic
01:43:30
Energy Acts, the doctrine of born secret.
01:43:35
It is illegal to pursue Q clearance data if you don't have a Q clearance. But if
01:43:40
you're creating Q clearance data out of your own head as a byproduct of trying to do physics,
01:43:47
you are actually potentially committing a capital offense. And your theory of everything, your
01:43:53
theory, the theory you just talked to me about there, what does that mean for the for the average person that's listening to this in terms of that they should
01:44:01
Well, this is my point. Did Rutherford know what he was doing?
01:44:06
No. So, I talk about this a lot, but I do think it's probably one of the greatest lyrics ever in any song. And
01:44:13
unfortunately, it occurs in a song that got way too popular. Um,
01:44:20
the baffled king composing Hallelujah. That line, a baffled king does not realize what he
01:44:28
is doing when he composes. Rutherford was a baffled king.
01:44:33
Maybe there is a neutral version of the proton. He was composing the end of the human
01:44:38
race. And your ideas about the nature of reality. I'm a baffled person.
01:44:44
And your proposal. I am baffled. I don't know what it leads to is what I'm trying to tell you.
01:44:50
But your assertion is that there's more than this dimension that we understand and more than I'm telling you that I can name for you
01:44:56
what particles there are left to be found. Mhm. And the what comes back to me
01:45:03
is you don't have any predictions. And I'm thinking this doesn't even make sense.
01:45:11
Literally, I'm telling you there are maybe there's a neutral version of the proton doesn't begin to talk about all
01:45:16
the things that I'm talking about. So many new forces, so many new particles, ways to go in. There's no
01:45:25
longer an arrow of time in my theory. So you could live forever theoretically.
01:45:31
What does it mean if if you think about a final theory?
01:45:37
And again, by the way, I just want to say something. I say my theory sometimes when I'm having to defend it, but it
01:45:43
isn't mine. It it it just is.
01:45:49
You know, Everest didn't belong to Sir Edmund Hillary or to Mallerie or
01:45:56
even to the surveyor for whom the mountain is named. When you chose to make the first descent
01:46:04
on Everest, you just chose a route and then you e
01:46:09
either did or did not traverse the route. We don't know whether Mallalerie may have succeeded, but my point is that
01:46:16
this isn't my theory. There is a theory that's there. It might
01:46:21
be wrong. It's possible. I may have screwed it up,
01:46:27
but it's got so much in it that I have no
01:46:32
idea what it means. And the simple way to understand this theory is that there's dimensions that exist beyond the ones that we know.
01:46:38
We already know from Einstein that these dimensions are implicitly in Einstein's
01:46:45
theory. Every single dimension that I'm talking about is being constructed out
01:46:51
of the four that we began with. When I put the cups here and the coaster,
01:46:58
the edges were calculated from the vertices and the faces were calculated from the edges.
01:47:04
My point being these dimensions are already here. And because the dimensions are already
01:47:10
here, they were already present in Einstein's theory all along. When you ask for what Einstein's real equation
01:47:17
is, we actually don't think about it that way. We call it the Einstein field equations plural. How many of them are
01:47:25
there? 10. Why are there 10? Because there are
01:47:31
six edges and four vertices that weren't accounted
01:47:37
for. They're already in Einstein's theory.
01:47:44
We just didn't take them seriously as directions you could go in. You've heard about this simulation theory, haven't you?
01:47:50
Well, I don't want to talk about it really. Well, again, it's the LLM problem. The
01:47:56
really interesting thing comes from I don't know. And maybe the maybe the cosmos is traversible.
01:48:04
Maybe times travel replaces time travel.
01:48:12
You see, if I flip all of the dimensions of time and space, so I have one of
01:48:18
time, three of space in Einstein's theory. Okay, the time dimension gets a minus sign. The three spatial dimensions
01:48:24
get a plus sign. And the three spatial dimensions are X, Y, and Z. Yeah, zed, forgive me.
01:48:29
Which is for for a simple person, depth, width, and height. Yeah, you can go like forward, backwards, up, down.
01:48:35
Right. Okay. So, we have three dimensions there. And then we have one of time because the conversation takes place over time. You're moving around.
01:48:43
Now flip the time dimension to being plus when it
01:48:48
was minus before and all the plus dimensions to being minus. So I have now I have three time dimensions and one
01:48:54
space dimension. It would look exactly the same.
01:49:00
The one space dimension would take the function of time and the three time dimensions would have the function of
01:49:05
space. We don't even teach people the idea that there is not necessarily an arrow
01:49:13
of time if time is not one-dimensional. The only dimension that has an arrow is
01:49:21
one. If something has one dimension, you can say,
01:49:26
and you know, I tried to do this on Rogan. I said, "If you have a cassette tape and you want to go back to an
01:49:31
earlier song, again, your younger listeners will have no idea what we're talking about." Um, you have to go back
01:49:39
through all of the songs before, but if you have a stylus on a turntable, some
01:49:44
of them will be hipsters with vinyl in their own homes. You can lift the stylus up and it doesn't need to go back and
01:49:52
unplay each song in reverse. Mhm. Okay. You may be able to go back in time
01:49:58
without going back through time.
01:50:04
I don't know what this means, but it's a lot like saying maybe there's a neutral version of the proton. Now, what I'm
01:50:09
concerned about is that essentially none of my physics friends know that there is
01:50:15
a doctrine of restricted data. They've never heard of the 1946 and 54 atomic energy acts. They don't know that the
01:50:21
department of energy that funds them is really the the department of physics. They don't know the extent to which we
01:50:28
went to hide all of this stuff. They don't know that they're not allowed to talk to foreign nationals from hostile
01:50:34
nations on our own soil because of a doctrine called deemed exports. There's
01:50:39
an entire hidden world of national security. And the penalty for talking about national security with people who
01:50:47
don't live that is that you're a conspiracy theorist. It's like, do you
01:50:52
have this terminology? Do you know the axe? Do you want to Google it? Well, you're This is also just something
01:50:58
that's really interesting about the UFO UAP world. We had this admission recently
01:51:04
that the government knew that at a minimum, and again, I don't think this is by anywhere close to the full story.
01:51:10
At a minimum there were secret fake special access programs. Do you know about special access programs? Su super
01:51:17
secret programs are called special access programs. Then there's a further category called
01:51:24
unagnowledged special access programs or USPS which is you can know that a special access program exists
01:51:32
like you know maybe warhead recovery is a might be a known one but then like
01:51:38
there might be an uncknowledged special access program which is like theft of foreign nuclear warheads which we it's
01:51:45
not even on the books only only the super secret lawmakers uh you know in the gang of eight or whatever it can
01:51:51
know that that exists. And then there are further designations of secretness.
01:51:57
There's waved and bigoted. So you can have like a waved bigoted unagnowledged
01:52:02
special access program and you don't know any of this language.
01:52:07
And then there's this chorus of morons who the instant you start to educate
01:52:12
people about the existence of the sup super secret squirrel club rise up and say
01:52:20
this is all conspiracy theory and you're saying wait a second we just
01:52:26
admitted in UFO UAP land that we have a
01:52:31
fake special access program which I predicted on Joe Rogan. And I said, "We may be faking a UFO situation."
01:52:40
The cost and the penalty at a personal level for letting people know how the government keeps secrets is personal
01:52:47
destruction. The US faked UFO program. Yes, correct. You don't know about this.
01:52:54
I think the Wall Street Journal had an article about it. So these guys knew when they filed their reports on the UFO
01:53:00
UAP that there actually is at a minimum a fake UFO UAP program.
01:53:07
Why would they want to fake UFOs? This is so weird.
01:53:13
Did you did you happen to watch Joe Rogan episode 1945 where I talked about
01:53:19
the whole history of the golden age of general relativity and its relationship to UFO UAP anti-gravity research and the
01:53:26
atomic bomb? I didn't know. Okay. When we invaded
01:53:31
the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, that was called Operation Overlord.
01:53:38
We had an entirely fake invasion planned of Norway called Operation Fortitude
01:53:44
that was part of Operation Bodyguard, which is part of just total deception. And why? Because we were building up
01:53:50
troops to do something huge. So we tried to convince, we like planted plans for
01:53:55
the invasion of Norway on dead bodies to wash up on beaches so Germans would find them. We fake stuff all the time. That's
01:54:05
what we do. And you can't talk about what we do that
01:54:12
is deceptive without being ruined by what are called covert influence
01:54:18
operations. Like if you'll you watch my Twitter account, you'll see all sorts of accounts descend on it. Fraud Charlotte
01:54:25
and Grifter blah blah blah blah blah blah. Some of that is just people being mean.
01:54:32
But you'll notice that like if I really start talking about physics and I start talking about security and I start
01:54:38
talking about things that anyone can Google and most of us don't think to do it,
01:54:44
suddenly it gets really really intense. And the whole point is it's supposed to
01:54:50
be untraceable. It's supposed to be a way in which like
01:54:56
almost certainly we know a ton about what happened in the Wuhan Institute of Viology
01:55:03
because of two bioweapons conventions that we were signitaries to and which we
01:55:08
ratified the Geneva Convention and a bioweapons convention in the 1970s. But
01:55:13
that's not top of mind for ordinary people. They just watched, you know,
01:55:18
their great grandma die and they watched their children get sick and they watched
01:55:24
their own brain fog. They can't know whether that was a bioweapon that we were working on coming
01:55:30
out of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill with Ralph Bareric's lab.
01:55:36
You know, we're we're up to constant secret stuff. Why would they fake the
01:55:41
UFOs, though? What was the what was that distraction? Have you ever seen the B2 bomber? Yeah.
01:55:47
What if you saw that before we were ready to say it existed? Yeah. You'd think it was a UFO or something. So, wouldn't it be better if we had a
01:55:53
UFO story ready to go when we had cool aerospace? Oh, okay. So, you're saying they're
01:55:59
working on something which they didn't want you to know. What's more, what if we convinced China or Russia or Iran
01:56:06
that we had incredible powers that they don't have? Then they might be very reluctant to
01:56:13
strike us. or they might waste a tremendous amount of money developing anti-gravity
01:56:20
technology when there's no such thing. There are plenty of good reasons to fake such thing. Why would we fake an why
01:56:26
would we plan an invasion of Norway if we weren't going to invade? But if that's a distraction technique,
01:56:32
do you have any hypothesis as to what was going on there? But that's not my job. Okay.
01:56:39
Because as soon as you do that, I know that my the quality of my guessing is not going to be at the quality of my
01:56:45
detecting when we're up to [ __ ] Okay? So, in other words, if you ask me
01:56:51
why is physics stagnant, I can say I don't know, but there's a
01:56:56
decent chance that we know how dangerous physics is and that it's crazy to do it in an open university environment. We've
01:57:03
taken precautions. We have a system of national laboratories which are effectively our secret university system
01:57:10
uh where you have to be an American. So we we're using our regular universities and the whole world comes through it.
01:57:15
You know we have Chinese people learning physics side by side our own people. And I guess you're saying that you don't
01:57:21
know if UFOs exist but you you're you're sure now that they were faking this. I am absolutely positive that we have
01:57:28
unagnowledged programs that have UFO written on the side of
01:57:34
them. Okay. In other words, the number of people who repeat who repeat strikingly similar
01:57:41
things who appear to be completely sober in every other respect with no known acting
01:57:47
ability. There is no way in the world that these people just spontaneously have decided to destroy their sanity,
01:57:53
their career, and their reputation. I've got you. At a minimum, we're faking.
01:58:00
I think we are doing a lot more than faking a UFO program.
01:58:05
I don't know what it is and I also would not be talking about this on a large podcast, but for one thing,
01:58:14
I have a particular hatred for one aspect of our intelligence community. And I I don't mean that I dis disagree
01:58:22
or don't like or I'm not uncomfortable when our secret squirrel club inside the
01:58:29
intelligence world and inside in particular covert operations targets our own people who are not read into these
01:58:36
programs for personal destruction, reputational destruction, mental
01:58:41
destruction, economic destruction. We take our best people and we make fun of them and we belittle them and we destroy
01:58:48
their families, their lives, their ability to earn. I have a very strong sense that you
01:58:54
never destroy your best people. Do you think you're under attack?
01:58:59
Let me talk about Leo Zillard instead. Leo Zillard is the father of the
01:59:05
Manhattan Project, which was the where the nuclear bomb was created. That's right. He was not allowed to go
01:59:10
inside the Manhattan Project because they didn't trust him. He was a genius.
01:59:17
He was the idea for the Manhattan Project. He and Einstein made sure that it happened.
01:59:23
The government barely trusted Oppenheimer. If you saw the film,
01:59:29
what they did with Leo Zillard was they minded him. They knew how good he was.
01:59:34
They knew how important he was. They listened to him and they didn't destroy him. He undoubtedly knew that the
01:59:40
program was going on, but he wasn't allowed inside the program.
01:59:47
I think that's okay. I think it's okay that our security state
01:59:54
recognizes that some people are not cut out to keep secrets. Some people are not cut out
02:00:00
to die with certain facts that have to be kept hidden. That's fine.
02:00:05
the desire of our government to destroy people who have no idea what they've tripped over because our government
02:00:12
isn't good enough to keep its own secrets.
02:00:17
This is an abomination. You cannot destroy your a team.
02:00:23
Who are you referring to when you say people are being destroyed? Are you referring to people like yourself?
02:00:28
You know, if you look at, for example, Jeffrey Epstein,
02:00:35
Jeffrey Epstein conducted a conference called Confronting Gravity.
02:00:41
I don't know who Jeffrey Epstein was, but I'll I would certainly bet money that he was a product of at least one
02:00:48
uh or more elements of the intelligence community. The CIA, the FBI,
02:00:53
that those are ours, right? Department of Homeland Security has some of the stuff. Geospatial Intelligence has some
02:01:00
of this. You know, it's a it's a large network. Um, I'm talking about people like David Grush.
02:01:08
I'm talking about people potentially like David Fraver. I'm talking about people like Jake
02:01:14
Barber. I'm talking about scientists
02:01:19
like Leo Zillard. Imagine if Leo Zillard didn't know that the Manhattan Project
02:01:24
was going on or Jack Raper, a journalist who broke a story. These people all think that they're doing their jobs.
02:01:35
I desperately want to know why Jeffrey Epstein knew so much about my work
02:01:42
and I want to know why he was connected to my graduate program.
02:01:48
I was I was in the Harvard mathematics department. Jeffrey Epstein was absolutely connected to the Harvard math
02:01:53
department. I want to know why. How was he connected to the math department? You're pushing me to say things I'm not going to say.
02:02:00
I'm curious. I'm not trying to push you. I understand, but I'm just not going to do it. I'm saying that anybody who wants
02:02:07
You say he was connected to the math department to the Harvard mathematics department. How did you know he was connected?
02:02:13
You can Google it. You could Google it right now. This is not I I can point at all sorts
02:02:21
of stuff that's hidden in plain sight. So, I'll take your word for it. And the assertion that I'm picking up on is that
02:02:27
Jeffrey Epstein was planted in your world to keep I'm not saying he's planted. I don't
02:02:32
know who he was. I don't know who ran him. He certainly was not a financeier in any standard sense.
02:02:37
Really, that was a cover story. Yes. The way that we know Jeffrey Epstein in the UK especially is just this guy who was this
02:02:43
rich guy who had this island who brought people there and then did these despicable things that
02:02:49
disgraced financeier Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, that's what we that's the story. Disgraced financier Jeffrey Epste. It's called proveration. He was a disgraced
02:02:55
financeier. What kind of a finance year or disgraced one? What was his name? Oh, he was disgraced financier Jeffrey
02:03:00
Epstein. They proceverate that into your mind so that you autocomplete that in your LLM
02:03:06
life. Do you believe that that's what Jeffrey Epstein was? You met him? You
02:03:13
Yeah, I can tell that finance finance year. He wasn't a finance year the day I met
02:03:18
him. What was he? He was a weird guy who didn't seem to know a lot about currency trading,
02:03:27
claiming to run a multi-billion dollar FX hedge fund.
02:03:33
When you say a weird guy, what made him weird? Same stuff I've said on Chris William. I'm not going to go back through that.
02:03:38
Just my my point is you're getting a different interview, right? So, what I'm trying to get at is Jeffrey
02:03:46
Epstein knew a tremendous amount about my work when nobody knew anything about my work and he had a pipeline into me
02:03:52
that I didn't understand which is that he was connected to my graduate program. And you can check out the conference
02:03:58
called Exploring Gravity uh and hosted physical workshop called Confronting Gravity.
02:04:04
Confronting gravity. That's right. in March 2006. Yeah. What is Jeffrey Epste? Jeffrey Epstein is very focused on gravity.
02:04:10
Was it a gravity conference? It was about gravity. Yeah. What the [ __ ] was he doing talking about bloody gravity if he's a finance year?
02:04:17
It was very important to get Nobel laureates and some of the smartest people on earth to come to the Virgin Islands and talk about gravity. Steven
02:04:23
Hawkins was there. David Gross was there. Lawrence Krauss was there. Lisa Randall was there right before his
02:04:29
conviction. And I'm telling you, he was very focused on the Harvard math department.
02:04:35
and he knew all about me in ways that he wasn't supposed to.
02:04:42
I have to I have to be clear. I have to be clear on my understanding of what you're saying. From what I understood
02:04:48
and you can say, Steve, I'm not going to answer that. Whatever. But I just have to because you've opened up a curiosity hole in my mind. So, let me try and fill
02:04:54
it. Even if it's the conversation you had with Chris, um I'll just evade you if fine. you're within the right to evade
02:05:00
me and I hold the right to ask which is um so is what I'm hearing is you believe
02:05:06
and I'm just going to say it how I think it is what I'm hearing is you believe that Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein was not a
02:05:12
financier he was planted in some way to he was a construct is what I said he was a construct in some way to
02:05:21
mess with the progression of physics Jeffrey Epstein
02:05:28
Apparently, I think some I'll tell you what I said when I met him. When the meeting was over, I immediately called
02:05:34
my wife and I said, "I have just met a construct." She said, "What do you mean?" I said, "This person is not who
02:05:40
they claim to be. Somebody has constructed this human being to be something that they are not." Which is a
02:05:46
hedge fund genius. Somebody who could understand the euro and the yen like nobody else. [ __ ] Not true.
02:05:58
I believe that whoever constructed Jeffrey Epstein was running multiple different programs through the same
02:06:05
thing, having put in a large initial investment. It wasn't about one thing. If you build
02:06:11
a mall, you don't just have clothing stores in the mall. You have a food court in the mall, right? You have
02:06:16
jewelry in the mall. You you you have all sorts of different things in the mall. Jeffrey Epstein was a construct of
02:06:24
something that was running multiple things. One of those things was science. And I don't
02:06:30
think that the science and the pedophilia were necessarily in the same bucket. He was funding all sorts of
02:06:36
people. I don't think everybody at that, you know, part of the problem with calling his plane the Lolita Express and
02:06:42
calling his island pedophile island is that you just can't see all the
02:06:48
different things that were going through this guy. I don't think almost any of those
02:06:54
scientists are exposed, you know, maybe a few of them, but very few of them to
02:06:59
anything really horrible. I think he was trying to keep a periscope on everything that was interesting.
02:07:07
And I think that his girlfriend's father, Robert Maxwell, was all through
02:07:12
scientific publishing. And I think Pergamont Press was in part
02:07:18
a control mechanism for making sure that revolutionary
02:07:23
discoveries were taking place within a framework. Anybody can look,
02:07:30
you can write a Substack article and you can hit post and suddenly the world has
02:07:36
access to your Substack article. That is a nightmare. What if somebody posts, you
02:07:42
know, weaponized anthrax? What if they do the equivalent of saying, "What if there's a neutral
02:07:48
proton?" So, you think he was controlling science? I think that Robert Maxwell was in part
02:07:54
trying to control science. I think Jeffrey Epstein was in part trying to fund science, trying to control it. I
02:07:59
don't really know. Again, you know, part of the problem with why conspiracy theorists have a bad
02:08:06
name is that they're not content to live in ignorance, and I mean, I am
02:08:14
I know something is really off with this story.
02:08:19
If if you look at me saying things like, "You don't know whether Biden is going to make it to November." Haha, Eric, you
02:08:26
know what an idiot. Blah blah blah. Okay, then he has a debate. He doesn't make it to November.
02:08:31
You know, I'm not Nostradamus. I'm just dumb enough to say something in public that that makes sense. Let me say
02:08:37
something in public that makes sense. Our national security people suck at
02:08:43
their jobs. the people who are in charge of the
02:08:48
department of energy which is masking the department of physics which is m masking the department of nuclear
02:08:53
weapons right the atomic energy acts which are really about atomic weaponry
02:08:59
recast as atoms for peace or who knows what Jeffrey Epstein who is not a disgraced finance seere
02:09:06
the newspapers that have always had a national interest component and have liaison so that they can work with the
02:09:11
CIA and the state department and they do each other's bidding and scratch each other. This whole network
02:09:19
is the is what I've called managed reality. We live in managed reality.
02:09:24
We are all in some version of The Truman Show. And you can look at it. You can Google
02:09:30
it. I can give you a million search terms. And every time I give a million search terms, you'll watch my reputation get torn apart.
02:09:38
Are you are you going to blame me that you didn't know what the whole of society approach is because you didn't know the Daniel Inaway Center for
02:09:44
Security in the Pacific came up with an idea for soft fascism to fight hybrid wars? You didn't know what hybrid
02:09:49
warfare? Look, look at my talk at ARC, Jordan Peterson's group, the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. It's almost
02:09:56
two million views. And why is it? Because people are saying, "I didn't know these terms.
02:10:01
Did you know what the Human Terrain Project is? You know, do you know about human terrain? You're a mountain. I'm a
02:10:07
valley and instead of war uh planners figuring out how do we use that valley
02:10:12
to capture that mountain top because it gives us a an eagle's nest, you know, to snipe from or whatever. They say, "Okay,
02:10:20
this is the second most powerful podcast in the in the world, second to Joe Rogan. How do we capture him?"
02:10:26
[ __ ] Leave me alone, please. No, but that's what I'm trying to say. You're human terrain. Yeah.
02:10:31
When the human terrain wakes up and says, "Wait a minute. I'm human terrain.
02:10:37
Well, my feeling is if you don't want me to talk about this on a podcast, then keep your terms separate. Nobody knew
02:10:44
the term pre-bunked malinformation. Do you know what pre-bunked malinformation is? Malinformation is information we don't
02:10:51
want to get out. Technically, people try to pretend that it's information that will be
02:10:57
misinterpreted, but really it's real stuff that is delotterious to the
02:11:03
narratives that we're trying to push forward and what we're trying to do. And prebunked means discredited.
02:11:09
So, we know what debunked. We have to debunk disinformation. We get that. But
02:11:14
you didn't know that we had to prebunk malinformation, which is we have to destroy truth tellers.
02:11:20
What do you think that means for people like me as podcasters? you know, because we're doing these long form conversations. I take
02:11:27
you'll snap back, you'll say, "That was a really interesting talk."
02:11:33
And then you'll have somebody else on who'll be talking about the importance of melatonin and how we don't understand
02:11:39
uh the role of sleep. And you'll have somebody else, you know, on who will be
02:11:45
talking about how do you do a uh a clothing brand from scratch uh and turn it into a billion-dollar unicorn.
02:11:53
You're not going to stay here on this topic. This is your time with me and it'll have
02:12:00
some effect and it'll start to fade. And and and that's what this is.
02:12:08
I'd love to be doing my podcast. I just don't know how to do it safely.
02:12:14
I want to talk about taking our lives back from the intelligence community. I want to talk about taking our lives back
02:12:20
from Silicon Valley. Even though those people are my friends, I want to talk about taking my life back from the
02:12:26
phone, from despair, from not having a future.
02:12:32
I want to talk about having a glorious existence that is not mediated by morons
02:12:37
who sit inside the beltway and play with large budgets and hurt people. Particularly really good people who are
02:12:43
good at their job, who are trying to figure out how to advance humankind, their family, the national
02:12:50
interest, and get fouled. I I did not ask for Jeffrey Epstein to
02:12:56
fall into my life. I met him once, but it was enough to know, "Holy cow,
02:13:02
the Harvard math department can't be what I think it is." Why was he there? I didn't even know. I never heard his name
02:13:08
when I was there. Is that where you met him in in Harvard?
02:13:14
No, no, no. I think what very powerful people at JP
02:13:19
JP Morgan told me I needed to meet him. He didn't want to talk about finance.
02:13:27
He wanted to talk about science. You can't do your podcast safely.
02:13:33
Do you My employer was a special informant to the FBI. He's like one of my closest friends. I'm
02:13:39
not going to say who it is. Your employer? Yeah. And one of my closest friends.
02:13:48
I I live under a periscope. practice scope is really what I meant.
02:13:54
But yeah, I I don't I want to do physics, man.
02:14:02
I'm really really good at it, you know.
02:14:07
And if we have an idea that we shouldn't do physics in public, I would like to have a call from somebody inside.
02:14:14
Hey, Eric, we we need you to come in. Okay, great. What's up?
02:14:20
But I didn't use your resources. cuz I didn't use your grants. Nobody ever informed me. My god, nobody
02:14:27
ever informed me about restricted data. How many people on earth know that
02:14:32
there's a doctrine that says physicists don't have free speech? We can execute you for doing your job.
02:14:40
It's never been tested in the courts, and I hope that the Supreme Court will not allow that. But, you know, if we have a problem that is so serious in
02:14:47
theoretical physics that it needs the the world's largest
02:14:53
exemption from free speech, we need to amend the Constitution. You can't just do this as a sneak attack where you
02:15:00
reserve the right casually to hook the 1917 Espionage Act up against the 1946
02:15:06
and 54 Atomic Energy Acts. I I've canvased my physics colleagues
02:15:14
You know, like one of the memes against me, which is very funny, is that no physicists take me seriously when I'm in
02:15:20
their offices all the time. I I just don't know what my life is.
02:15:28
And And with this latest advent of war in the Middle East, are you really going to pretend that if
02:15:34
you can Google all of these things that I have no idea what I'm talking about?
02:15:41
I'm looking to have a conversation with my own government. I'm looking to have a conversation about
02:15:46
theoretical physics. And I can do it quietly, but I have
02:15:52
rights. And I do not believe that the 1946 and 1954 Atomic Energy Acts are constitutional.
02:15:58
Try me. There is no restricted data. You can't
02:16:04
do that to an American. And you can't just keep mounting covert
02:16:10
influence campaigns. You know,
02:16:15
I just spent five days in the physics department. I'm not allowed to say that it was five days in the physics department as a visitor. I gave a talk.
02:16:22
I'm not allowed to say that I gave a talk. I don't know what this is.
02:16:32
And I'm tired of it, you know? It's just like
02:16:41
if you're managing the Middle East this badly, if you're managing physics this badly, if you're managing the national
02:16:46
economy this badly, if you screwed up COVID this badly by getting inside of
02:16:52
the Lancet and nature, you know, peer review is this fake thing
02:16:58
that supposedly stretches back to the founding of the Royal Society. And it's very clear from the scholarship around
02:17:04
it that it comes out of n period between 1965 and 1975 initiated by the Medicare
02:17:11
act predicated on the need for uh editors for the journal expansion
02:17:17
founded by Pergamont Press and Robert Maxwell. By 1975,
02:17:22
there's a giant battle between the NSF and both fiscal and cultural
02:17:28
conservatives against something called man a course of study or makos where peerreview
02:17:36
was born in a Utah clinic. Uh came out of the medical literature because the
02:17:41
federal government in 1965 with the Medicare act picked up the need to pay for so many medical procedures. They
02:17:48
wanted to say why are we assigning this many medical procedures? The doctors circled the wagons and said we will
02:17:53
peerreview each other. Then in by 1975 the NSF was under the um microscope and
02:18:01
they used peer review as a self-defense of of last resort to say we will be reviewing each other. Right? Peer review
02:18:08
is a myth. The scholarship is clear as day.
02:18:17
I I can't keep going on the world's largest podcasts saying everything that can be googled and figured out and just
02:18:23
constantly have as my reward that the government refuses to have a conversation with me and sends its its
02:18:30
gaggle of uh of idiots to harass me. You think it's doing that? It's sending
02:18:36
a gaggle of Yes, I do. I do think I think that some of them are actual idiots who just enjoy
02:18:43
having causing problems. But I think more than anything, we have a real problem. Science is too powerful.
02:18:51
The real, if you wanted to just cut to the ultimate core of this.
02:18:58
If four amino acids can shut down planet Earth. If, what is it, a nine-page paper
02:19:06
solving the double spend problem can create a new currency not backed by violence, but backed by mathematics.
02:19:15
If the concept of an inner product in a large vector space generates something you can't tell isn't
02:19:22
a human being in 2017. Do you have any idea what the power of
02:19:28
the human mind is at this point? Linear algebra
02:19:34
can create something that you would fall in love with. It can create the most beautiful music
02:19:41
you can imagine, or it can animate a photo of a dead relative so that you can actually have the experience of having
02:19:47
some video of you with a great grandparent you can't even remember. Science is the most amazing, powerful,
02:19:55
crazy stuff possible. And we spend a fortune trying to convince people that
02:20:01
scientists are worthless, that scientists are incapable.
02:20:06
And in large measure, they've convinced the scientists themselves, my my colleagues, the supposed physicists
02:20:14
will spend their entire lives pretending to do physics and retire without ever having actually done any. I was in this
02:20:21
physics department I was just in. It's been a long time since I since I've spent that long as a visitor.
02:20:28
The top people in this physics department professed that they had no interest in
02:20:34
the physical world. that they only cared about the mathematics that they were doing. And I
02:20:39
just thought, you're in a theoretical physics group
02:20:46
and you profess openly that you have no interest whatsoever in the physical world. Well done. I don't know who you
02:20:53
were. I don't know how you did it, but it took you four decades to get the
02:20:58
physicists to stop caring about the phys physical world. Somehow what we did
02:21:06
is we stopped the world's most powerful and the world's most important group
02:21:11
from making progress. And why Elon Musk is not out here
02:21:17
saving this by just throwing a few billion at it. You know, Elon, if you're out there, it's at Astra. Yes or no?
02:21:25
Mars is a stop gap message. Do you want to go to the stars? Is there something we don't know? To the Department of
02:21:31
Energy. Do you want to have conversations? Is there anyone at all out here? That's
02:21:36
my question. That's why I do the podcasts. And it's, by the way, I'm repeating myself. I've said this before.
02:21:41
Send lawyers, guns, and money. There's no one out here.
02:21:47
But I will say this, if we could get out of here, you know, in terms of transcendence, in
02:21:53
terms of things that are really exciting, there's nothing that I had greater pleasure at as a father than taking my children for meteor showers.
02:22:01
We take the dog, go to a secret location outside of Los Angeles that's quite dark. We just lie under the sky and
02:22:09
watch for hours, you know, and look up at the heavens and think, "My god, that's a destination. That's some place
02:22:16
I could go." I don't think that there's a more inspiring thing than to figure out the
02:22:22
infinity of space. all of these galaxies and the deep field photographs of these
02:22:28
space telescopes filled with worlds and we're stuck here.
02:22:34
It's like it's enough already. Time to go. Let's have some fun. That's that's really what I'm excited about.
02:22:42
Been great. Great to be here. Thank you for being here. Super fascinating and it spun my brain in
02:22:49
several different directions at the same time.
02:22:57
I want to I want to bring it um back to the person who's who's got to the end of this conversation and they're sat at home in their box of shorts, maybe
02:23:04
listening on their iPhone as they fall asleep, wherever they are in the world or on a train or plane or whatever, and allow you to offer them some kind of
02:23:11
closing message that might make their life better in some way. It's a broad
02:23:16
brief, but I think it's the most important brief, which is, you know, can having heard everything we've talked
02:23:22
about today. What advice would you give the listener, an actionable piece of advice so that
02:23:28
they could live a subjectively better life?
02:23:37
The songs of Tom Ler are pretty terrific, as are the operetas of Gilbert and Sullivan. You might want to explore
02:23:43
the Azors as well as the Indonesian archipelago. Indonesian is one of the
02:23:48
easiest languages to learn because it's been denuted of most of the complexity that screw up people who have a hard
02:23:55
time learning other languages. Buy a poster of tropical fruit and make sure that you visit every single one on that
02:24:01
poster before it's time for lights out. Consider box B minor mass and the cello suites particularly by Pablo Casal and
02:24:08
take a serious listen to Eva Cassidy uh singing Stormy Monday in an album
02:24:15
called Live from Blues Alley to see if uh you really know how to feel things. I
02:24:20
think Professor Longair's Big Chief is one of the most brilliant pieces of piano music. It's absolutely inspiring.
02:24:26
And if you really like that, James Carol Booker III has an album called The Resurrection of the Bayou Maharaja.
02:24:34
Seriously, think about visiting the island of St. Helena in the South
02:24:39
Atlantic. Take a look at Kurt Jiongal's channel. He's doing amazing stuff being done by
02:24:46
no one else on Earth. I think that Chris Buck is really amazing. And if you think that Crossroads is good, have a listen
02:24:52
to his version of Miss You by the Rolling Stones. an incredible groove and
02:24:57
I didn't really appreciate it the first time I heard it. I think that the people making Spark amps at Positive Grid and
02:25:05
the my friends at Neural DSP uh with the Quad Cortex will blow your
02:25:11
mind with how much great audio equipment you can make. You can get a good electric guitar for a few hundred bucks
02:25:17
thanks to advances in China. put it into an open tuning and buy yourself a slide
02:25:23
or just slide a glass along it and you'll be able to play most songs that you'd care about within a minute or two,
02:25:29
maybe three, because you only need three chords. Get married. It may not work out. It may
02:25:36
be miserable. Have some kids. There's nothing else great to do on this planet. At least give it a try. And if your
02:25:42
parents won't pressure you to do it, I'm happy to do it. Try to keep this thing going.
02:25:48
Try to keep this thing going. Try to dream big about legacy. Don't feel embarrassed about wanting to conquer the
02:25:55
world or leave a permanent stain. Get out of this moment where everybody's worried about narcissism and drama.
02:26:02
Listen for meteor showers. They're announced regularly. Nobody actually does anything about them. And it's worth
02:26:08
inconveniencing yourself with people you love and take the dog. really seriously think about you whether
02:26:14
you want to pile on when you see what is almost certainly a federal or other
02:26:22
campaign targeting people who are standing up for you. Whether they're trying to figure out where COVID came
02:26:27
from, trying to figure out who was behind Jeffrey Epstein, recognize that
02:26:32
almost everything you've been taught to do in terms of hating Israel as part of somebody's campaign out ofQatar. The
02:26:40
situation in Gaza is incredibly dire. Don't stop caring about the people who are living under that. Recognize that
02:26:46
the Persians are not the Mullers. Get involved. Wish your wish your country's leadership
02:26:53
well. Even if you didn't vote for them and you think that they're horrible people, they've got very hard work to do. Be good to each other. Try. It's a
02:27:01
grand adventure. And um make sure you have some fun before it lights out.
02:27:08
That's it. We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the
02:27:14
next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question that was left for you
02:27:24
I love this question. What is the problem that you are doing the most mental gymnastics to avoid?
02:27:34
Pass.
02:27:40
No, I know the answer. It's not appropriate for your audience.
02:27:48
One of the things about being in the hot seat on podcasts is that it is not right to force anyone
02:27:55
to respond to a question. I know how to falsify an answer to that and I'm not going to do that and I'm not going to share the answer to that question
02:28:01
because it's not appropriate. But it's a great question. Feel free to leave it for someone else. This doesn't seem
02:28:07
fair. Whoever you were, thank you for the question. Obviously, my reaction was
02:28:12
just tremendous curiosity, which would be a natural reaction to what you just said.
02:28:17
Thank you for a great interview. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you. No, it's so unbelievably fascinating and uh you've
02:28:23
given me so much. Unfortunately, you've given me a lot of answers, but you've given me even more questions and maybe
02:28:28
that's the product of a good You live in LA. Yeah, we'll do it again. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you.
02:28:34
We appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks. We launched these conversation cards and they sold out. And we launched them
02:28:40
again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at
02:28:46
home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a
02:28:51
guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in the diary. And I've sat here with some
02:28:57
of the most incredible people in the world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked
02:29:03
them from one to three in terms of the depth. one being a starter question. And
02:29:08
level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question that builds even
02:29:14
more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can
02:29:19
see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real time. So, if you would like to get your hands
02:29:25
on some of these conversation cards, go to the diary.com or look at the link in the description below.
02:29:33
Heat. Heat. N. [Music]
02:29:43
I see. Hey
02:29:50
[Music]
