00:00:00
Everybody is in a rush to fire 10 to 25%
00:00:03
of their workforce, but 10% unemployment
00:00:05
would be worse than anything that's ever
00:00:07
happened in our lifetimes. We are going
00:00:08
to have a depression like we've never
00:00:10
seen in our lives.
00:00:11
>> Wow. Jake's a real Debbie Downer today.
00:00:14
I mean, this is an unbelievable
00:00:16
opportunity we're talking about. I got
00:00:18
to buy more sunglasses for how bright
00:00:20
the future is.
00:00:21
>> If you notice, Kevin actually didn't
00:00:22
address the wave of unemployment at all
00:00:24
because there's no question that it's
00:00:26
going to happen. And when we hit the
00:00:28
iceberg, we're not going to be ready.
00:00:29
And it is going to be an epic disaster.
00:00:32
>> Change is disruptive and it's
00:00:34
uncomfortable. But the scare factor of
00:00:37
saying that everybody loses their job
00:00:39
and the robots eat the children. I just
00:00:41
don't buy it.
00:00:42
>> I I don't know anyone saying that the
00:00:44
robots are going to eat the children.
00:00:45
And I understand that change happens,
00:00:47
but we have to be careful with change
00:00:49
because by 2028, we're going to have
00:00:51
disaster from AI, unemployment, and
00:00:54
disaster from the war. The only hope is
00:00:56
electing a smart person who's prepared
00:00:58
in 2028. Republicans, I have one thing
00:01:00
to tell you.
00:01:05
There's no way. Nobody's showing up to
00:01:08
vote. Their voter enthusiasm is
00:01:10
obliterated.
00:01:11
>> But the Democrats have also lost their
00:01:13
way.
00:01:13
>> And the Republicans only have one guy
00:01:15
who could win. And I'm worried about it.
00:01:17
Tucker Carlson. So, as we head towards
00:01:19
the midterms, but also the elections,
00:01:20
which aren't actually that far away now,
00:01:22
do you agree that we're heading towards
00:01:24
a more socialist America?
00:01:26
>> So, let me just say this.
00:01:30
How about that for an answer?
00:01:36
>> This is super interesting to me. My team
00:01:37
given me this report to show me how many
00:01:39
of you that watch the show subscribe.
00:01:40
And some of you have told us according
00:01:42
to this that you are unsubscribed from
00:01:44
the channel randomly. So, favor to ask
00:01:46
all of you. Please could you check right
00:01:47
now if you've hit the subscribe button
00:01:49
if you are a regular viewer of this show
00:01:50
and you like what we do here. We're
00:01:51
approaching quite a significant landmark
00:01:53
on this show in terms of a subscriber
00:01:55
number. So, if there was one simple free
00:01:57
thing that you could do to help us, my
00:01:59
team, everyone here to keep this show
00:02:01
free, to keep it improving year over
00:02:03
year and week over week, it is just to
00:02:05
hit that subscribe button and to double
00:02:06
check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
00:02:08
ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
00:02:10
you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
00:02:11
I'll make sure every single week, every
00:02:14
single month, we fight harder and harder
00:02:15
and harder and harder to bring you the
00:02:16
guests and conversations that you want
00:02:17
to hear. I've stayed true to that
00:02:19
promise since the very beginning of the
00:02:20
D of Sio and I will not let you down.
00:02:23
Please help us. Really appreciate it.
00:02:25
Let's get on with the show.
00:02:33
Jenk,
00:02:35
thank you so much for being here with
00:02:37
me. Um, there's so much going on in the
00:02:38
world that I have so many questions and
00:02:40
you both have very different
00:02:42
perspectives on all of the issues that I
00:02:43
care about the most. So, I thought I'd
00:02:44
bring us together to try and pass
00:02:46
through what is true. Unlike a lot of
00:02:48
shows, I I don't expect a shouting
00:02:50
match. What I'm trying to get is to
00:02:52
truth. And I'm hoping that seeing the
00:02:53
collision of your ideas on some of the
00:02:56
big issues that are front of mind for me
00:02:57
like artificial intelligence, like
00:02:59
geopolitics, like what's going on in
00:03:01
America now that I live there, I think
00:03:03
will be incredibly beneficial to me and
00:03:04
hopefully therefore my audience. I have
00:03:06
this graph here that says seven in 10
00:03:09
Americans oppose local construction of
00:03:12
AI data centers.
00:03:14
>> If you go back in time, any new
00:03:16
technology is extremely disruptive.
00:03:19
Change is disruptive and it's
00:03:22
uncomfortable
00:03:24
and it always is that way and yet it
00:03:27
always proves within the context of the
00:03:29
American economy to create a lot of
00:03:31
productivity and opportunity. And I
00:03:33
would argue today if we're going to find
00:03:35
a cure for cancer, it's going to be
00:03:37
through AI. If we're going to
00:03:39
democratize education, it'll be through
00:03:41
AI. If we're going to do some advances
00:03:44
on space research and travel, it'll be
00:03:47
through AI. Productivity in the S&P 500
00:03:50
and it's all small companies, AI. And
00:03:53
you can't have it without data centers.
00:03:55
You actually need the underpinnings, the
00:03:58
infrastructure. And so that debate, that
00:04:00
narrative is going on, but there's a
00:04:02
dark side to this that I've only started
00:04:05
to bring forward in the last couple of
00:04:06
weeks. I discovered this in Utah
00:04:10
that there are some nefarious forces.
00:04:12
Um, Arabella is the name of it. I didn't
00:04:15
know anything about it, but I was
00:04:17
wondering who was spending all the money
00:04:18
in Utah with all that misinformation
00:04:21
about what the data center was going to
00:04:23
be talking about using water we weren't
00:04:26
or using power we had no intention to or
00:04:29
40,000 acres that's complete BS. It was
00:04:32
all lies. And I said, who could afford
00:04:35
that? So I hired a bunch of forensic
00:04:38
auditors and lo and behold it took me
00:04:40
back to the Chinese through Arabellum uh
00:04:44
Neville Singum is his name. He's funding
00:04:46
all these organizations in Utah and I
00:04:48
caught him through the IRS 990 filings
00:04:51
and I handed it over the White House and
00:04:53
to a bunch of special agents and I just
00:04:56
wonder what's going to happen next. I'm
00:04:58
loving this now. This is so interesting
00:05:01
and it's a national debate and the poo
00:05:03
poo's hit the fan. But I'm not debating
00:05:06
this. I'm not suggesting it. I have
00:05:08
irrefutable evidence the Chinese are
00:05:10
meddling in every place where new power
00:05:14
is being proposed in America, every
00:05:16
state, every city. And it all goes back
00:05:19
to the Chinese through this Arabellum.
00:05:22
And just look at the IRS filings. Don't
00:05:25
shoot the messenger. I'm just providing
00:05:28
the truth.
00:05:29
>> Kevin, so just just for context here,
00:05:31
there was a proposal to build some data
00:05:32
centers in Utah, and you're saying that
00:05:34
the push back and the negative reaction
00:05:36
that has been seen is being encouraged
00:05:39
or sponsored by the Chinese who are
00:05:42
driving misinformation through bots. Is
00:05:45
that what you're proposing?
00:05:47
>> No, it's not through bots. It's actually
00:05:48
through contributions that are shown
00:05:51
through a a wide network of different
00:05:54
entities. It's very it's very well um
00:05:57
cloaked, but through forensic audit and
00:06:00
IP address scraping uh with some really
00:06:03
strong data scientists that I hired and
00:06:05
I'm working with, we were able to
00:06:07
provide 90 pages of IP addresses from
00:06:10
foreigners uh to various agents and
00:06:13
various entities within the US
00:06:15
government. And we're going to keep
00:06:16
doing it. We're we're providing it every
00:06:18
four hours. where cuz one thing I have
00:06:21
that I guess they hadn't thought through
00:06:22
is I have 12 million followers on social
00:06:24
media. No, no uh data center developer
00:06:28
has 4 million followers. This all showed
00:06:30
up on my feeds with bots on on Twitter
00:06:35
which is now X and on Instagram and then
00:06:37
onto LinkedIn. So we just provided the
00:06:40
data to the government and where the
00:06:42
chips fall I have no idea. And we had
00:06:45
death threats uh to our executives. I
00:06:49
provided that to the FBI and they
00:06:51
visited the woman who did it in Denver.
00:06:53
I think scared the pee peee right out of
00:06:55
her, but she won't be doing that again.
00:06:58
So, I mean, it's Listen, bring it. Don't
00:07:01
mess with me. I'm just going to provide
00:07:02
the data back to the government. I'm I'm
00:07:05
I'm just telling the truth. I'm not
00:07:07
debating it. I'm not suggesting it. I'm
00:07:09
providing the IRS filings of the cash
00:07:12
coming from Marabella right into the
00:07:16
Alliance for a Better Utah
00:07:19
>> and the story. I mean, that's Listen, I
00:07:22
didn't ask for this fight. I'm just
00:07:23
providing the data.
00:07:24
>> Is that how you see things? Are you
00:07:27
seeing the push back in terms of AI? Um,
00:07:30
do you think it's coming from Chinese
00:07:33
sponsored actors or do you think it's
00:07:35
something else?
00:07:37
No, I I don't think China has anything
00:07:38
to do with it. Uh, so first off, there's
00:07:41
a lot of things Kevin and I share. Uh,
00:07:43
I'm also an entrepreneur. I'm a
00:07:45
capitalist and went to Wharton Business
00:07:47
School. So, I love America. I love the
00:07:49
opportunity that America provides. I
00:07:51
wanted to provide opportunity for all
00:07:53
sorts of new businesses. So, that's not
00:07:56
remotely the issue. Okay. So, the
00:07:58
question is, are we going to pay our own
00:08:00
uh costs? So now on the AI data centers
00:08:05
um in the beginning I started reading
00:08:06
these stories about how the data centers
00:08:08
are driving up the energy cost for
00:08:10
everybody in that community that they're
00:08:12
based in and I couldn't believe it. But
00:08:13
then I thought okay since we have
00:08:15
basically legalized bribery in America
00:08:17
that probably is true they probably you
00:08:19
know given enough campaign contributions
00:08:22
to make this happen and it turns out
00:08:23
they have. No, if you're going to do a
00:08:25
data center you have to pay for it and
00:08:27
you have to pay for all of its costs.
00:08:29
None of this subsidizing your costs to
00:08:32
the average taxpayer who's not getting
00:08:33
anything out of it. So, we have to be
00:08:36
absolutely meticulous about who's paying
00:08:38
for the cost of the data centers. And it
00:08:40
should be the businesses that profit
00:08:42
from it. Unless you'd like to take have
00:08:44
the American people take some equity in
00:08:46
your business because if we're going to
00:08:47
pay your costs, obviously we should have
00:08:49
equity in it. When we bailed out the
00:08:51
bankers back in 2008, it was an absolute
00:08:53
crime. We should have taken equity in
00:08:55
those companies and then sold it later
00:08:56
for a profit. I don't want the
00:08:58
government to run banks, but I do want
00:09:00
us to not be suckers. Uh we constantly
00:09:02
pay for the research of the drug
00:09:04
companies and never get any equity. So,
00:09:06
um if you going to be capitalists, let's
00:09:08
be capitalists. Now, the real reason why
00:09:11
people are most angry about AI is not
00:09:12
even the data centers. And they have
00:09:14
every right to be livid about their
00:09:16
energy costs being higher uh so somebody
00:09:18
else can make a buck. Uh but the bigger
00:09:21
issue is the unemployment that we're all
00:09:23
worried is coming and it most definitely
00:09:25
is. So, there's a lot of uh happy talk
00:09:27
about, oh, 10 years from now, 20 years
00:09:29
from now, robots are going to be cooking
00:09:31
our salmon. Or two years from now, I
00:09:33
don't really care. I don't need my
00:09:35
salmon cooked by a robot. What I care
00:09:37
about is, are we going to have massive
00:09:40
unemployment? And right now, and I'm
00:09:43
curious what Kevin's going to say about
00:09:44
this because it's kind of indisputable
00:09:46
if you're in the business community,
00:09:47
everybody is in a rush uh to fire 10 to
00:09:50
25% of their workforce. and whoever gets
00:09:53
there first gets a competitive advantage
00:09:54
and the market's rewarded and their
00:09:56
stock uh price goes up. Well, if
00:09:59
everybody goes to fire 10 to 25% of
00:10:01
their employees, we are going to have u
00:10:03
not just a recession but a depression
00:10:05
like we've never seen in our lives. And
00:10:08
everybody's whistling past the graveyard
00:10:10
here. Uh so, do we have a plan? Does the
00:10:13
government have a plan? The only guy
00:10:14
I've ever heard of working on a plan to
00:10:16
deal with this tsunami of unemployment
00:10:19
is Roana. other than him it's crickets
00:10:22
and I think we're going to hit the
00:10:23
iceberg really hard.
00:10:25
>> Interestingly Jenk, the other person
00:10:27
that I've heard talk about the
00:10:28
unemployment wave coming has actually
00:10:30
been some of the big AI CEOs. And if you
00:10:32
go back and look look at their quotes
00:10:34
through time, people like Sam Alman
00:10:36
predicted that there will need to be
00:10:37
some kind of UBI scheme. And I think
00:10:39
Worldcoin, which is his other startup
00:10:41
that uses um retina scanning to be able
00:10:44
to distribute value to people to check
00:10:46
their humans. One of the principles of
00:10:48
the foundation of that company was to
00:10:50
distribute UBI, universal basic income
00:10:53
to everybody. So on this point, Kevin,
00:10:55
do you do you disagree that there there
00:10:57
will be a widespread unemployment
00:11:00
apocalypse, as Jenk has called it on his
00:11:01
Twitter feed.
00:11:02
>> So So let's go through Jack's shopping
00:11:04
list of disaster. I think it's fair to
00:11:06
address them one at a time. Let's talk
00:11:08
with the energy. I totally agree with
00:11:09
him. You can't build a data center
00:11:11
anywhere and tap into the grid because
00:11:14
he's right. the price of energy would go
00:11:16
up at the library, the church, and the
00:11:19
community center by 30%. And that's what
00:11:21
happened in Virginia. So that is no
00:11:24
longer a possibility. In Utah, for
00:11:26
example, I have to bring my own power.
00:11:28
But the idea would be if we produce this
00:11:31
energy because there's no data centers
00:11:34
without energy. We'll put it back into
00:11:36
the grid, not just for Utah, but for the
00:11:39
whole country. Because I think he's
00:11:40
right. Anybody that's building a new
00:11:42
data center should have the
00:11:44
responsibility to provide the power and
00:11:46
put some of it back into the grid. That
00:11:49
would solve two problems at once. The
00:11:51
grid is tapped out. The library has no
00:11:54
more power. We'll solve that problem for
00:11:56
Utah and the country. So that's the
00:11:58
first falsehood I run into fueled by the
00:12:00
Chinese propaganda that came into Utah
00:12:03
or whoever they are at Arabella, the CP
00:12:07
C the CPP or the U you know who whoever
00:12:10
this agency is because you have to
00:12:12
follow it through all these nefarious
00:12:14
holdings. But at the end of the day
00:12:16
that's number one. Number two, the idea
00:12:18
that everybody gets replaced by robots
00:12:21
and then they eat the children, I don't
00:12:22
buy that at all. Every new technology in
00:12:25
American history for over 200 years has
00:12:28
created vast opportunity, productivity,
00:12:31
and fueled the economy to lead all
00:12:34
economies on Earth by 20%. Which is
00:12:37
still the case today. Now, it's an
00:12:40
uncomfortable reality. The market hit
00:12:42
new highs today. And that is an index of
00:12:44
how great American companies are. And
00:12:47
the smaller companies that are 5 to 500
00:12:50
employees also hitting on all cylinders
00:12:53
now using AI tools for productivity,
00:12:55
customer acquisition, maintenance. So
00:12:58
the scare factor of saying that
00:13:00
everybody loses their job and the robots
00:13:02
eat the children. I just don't buy it.
00:13:05
And so I think we should have that
00:13:07
debate. But you don't know yet what
00:13:09
opportunities there are in the economy
00:13:12
driven by this new technology. So I
00:13:15
think what I know there's fear and
00:13:17
loathing and I think it's important to
00:13:19
have that narrative. I think it's great
00:13:21
to debate it but I think we should deal
00:13:23
with fact. It's very very uncomfortable
00:13:26
when chain hit change hits anywhere and
00:13:29
yet it's proven itself within the
00:13:31
context of the American economy to rise
00:13:34
it above all challenges and still lead
00:13:37
the world. Unfortunately,
00:13:40
there's the issue of defense and the
00:13:43
economy against China. They're our big
00:13:45
adversary. In this last conflict in the
00:13:48
Middle East where very few boots hit the
00:13:52
ground, it was the technology that
00:13:54
provided the ordinance precision that's
00:13:57
been used. In the future, wars will be
00:14:02
conducted using AI. And unfortunately,
00:14:04
the country with the best AI technology
00:14:07
will win those wars. I would certainly
00:14:09
not want China to be ahead of us. Yet, I
00:14:13
think they're the ones that would like
00:14:15
to stop us building power and developing
00:14:17
our AI platforms because they have
00:14:20
something called deepseek. I just want
00:14:21
to put a fact out there because we're
00:14:24
talking about this. While we were
00:14:26
stymied in building any new power,
00:14:28
forget about data centers, just new
00:14:30
power. The Chinese in the last 19 months
00:14:34
built 400 gawatt of power off burning
00:14:39
coal. They don't care about the
00:14:41
environment. They don't have any policy
00:14:44
about that. They have a supreme leader
00:14:47
who points his finger at the ground and
00:14:49
says, "Build a coal burning plant here.
00:14:52
Put a data center behind it or you'll
00:14:54
disappear in 18 months." And the people
00:14:57
involved say, "Chop chop, Supreme
00:14:59
Leader. We will make it happen." We
00:15:01
can't do that in America. And he knows
00:15:05
that. So he's spending as much money as
00:15:07
he can making sure he styies the efforts
00:15:09
of every entrepreneur in every state to
00:15:12
do the same. So that's what I think is
00:15:15
happening and I'm happy to provide the
00:15:16
data as I mentioned earlier and let the
00:15:19
government and their special agents in
00:15:21
all of these different departments I'm
00:15:22
working with now. I'm proud to be
00:15:25
providing this information. I think I've
00:15:27
kicked the door open on something very
00:15:29
very nasty.
00:15:31
>> Um Kevin, I would like to take a look at
00:15:32
that information as well. So we I'll
00:15:34
pick pick up that pick up with you about
00:15:36
that off camera. Um, what I wanted to
00:15:38
ask you is a lot of this sort of
00:15:40
doomerism around unemployment that we're
00:15:41
talking about comes from the CEOs
00:15:44
building the AI companies. And this is
00:15:46
something that that's always caused me a
00:15:48
bit of cognitive dissonance, which is I
00:15:50
think if you go back to I've got some
00:15:52
quotes here from March 2021. Sam Alman
00:15:55
said, and he's the for anyone that
00:15:56
doesn't know the CEO co-founder of
00:15:58
OpenAI, which is the maker of ChatgBT,
00:16:00
AI will probably replace most of the
00:16:02
jobs people do today. entire job
00:16:04
categories will be totally totally gone.
00:16:07
And then Elon Musk said in May 24,
00:16:10
probably none of us will have a job. If
00:16:12
you want to do a job that job, it's kind
00:16:14
of like a hobby. You can do a job, but
00:16:16
otherwise AI and robots will provide any
00:16:18
goods and services that you want. And
00:16:20
Dario, who's the founder of Claude,
00:16:22
which is the other major leading AI
00:16:24
model, said this was in 2025, AI could
00:16:27
eliminate half of all entry-level white
00:16:29
collar jobs within 5 years. a shift that
00:16:31
could push unemployment up to 20%. The
00:16:34
public is being sugarcoated on what is
00:16:36
coming. These are the people that are
00:16:39
most wellplaced and arguably I mean
00:16:43
depends how you look at it have the
00:16:44
least incentive to say that their
00:16:45
companies are going to cause societal
00:16:47
harm and they're saying that their
00:16:49
companies are going to cause massive
00:16:51
massive unemployment. Do we do we assume
00:16:54
that they're not telling the truth or
00:16:56
that they don't know what they're
00:16:57
talking about?
00:16:59
I think that's a very selective um bunch
00:17:02
of sound bites. Dario also said the CEO
00:17:05
of Ananthropic, if we don't build more
00:17:08
compute capacity in the next 6 months,
00:17:10
the Chinese will catch up with us with
00:17:13
deepseek.
00:17:14
That's an ominous warning because, you
00:17:17
know, let's say you decide, look, it's
00:17:20
too scary. Let's shut down the US's
00:17:22
ability to advance compute. Let's just
00:17:25
shut it all down as the Chinese want and
00:17:28
let's all sit around the campfire and go
00:17:30
kumbaya. Do you think the Chinese are
00:17:32
gonna stop? I don't think so. I think
00:17:35
they're going to continue to do this and
00:17:37
they'll invade Taiwan using no boots.
00:17:40
They'll just use AI to shut down their
00:17:42
power.
00:17:44
I mean, I'm just telling you that the
00:17:46
Kumbaya stuff I totally agree with. I
00:17:49
love it. But it's not reality. Should we
00:17:52
compete? Should we advance our
00:17:54
technology? Should we be the best in the
00:17:56
world advancing research on AI to solve
00:17:59
for cancer? Yes. Or do you want the
00:18:01
Chinese to do that for you? And in 20
00:18:04
years, they'll tell your children what
00:18:05
to eat when they're sitting at their
00:18:07
table in New York City for breakfast.
00:18:09
I'm the in the camp that says, "We know
00:18:12
who our adversary is. We know that why
00:18:14
they want to stop us." And Dario himself
00:18:17
said, "Hey everybody, we better build
00:18:19
some data centers real fast or in 6
00:18:22
months, Deepseek is now number one on
00:18:24
Earth." I don't want that outcome.
00:18:27
>> Jen, it appears to me that, you know,
00:18:29
there's the CEOs are acknowledging that
00:18:30
there could be a mass wave of
00:18:32
unemployment that's going to cause a
00:18:34
bunch of problems that I don't think
00:18:35
people are thinking about. But also what
00:18:37
Kevin's saying about it, you know, there
00:18:39
being this this sort of global race
00:18:41
between countries also appears to me to
00:18:42
be true that if we just sit back and
00:18:45
relax and put our fingers in our ear,
00:18:46
then there's going to be a huge
00:18:48
competitive advantage with this
00:18:49
transformational technology that falls
00:18:51
into the hands of China and um and we'll
00:18:54
miss out as the West. What's your
00:18:56
perspective?
00:18:57
>> First to address a lot of things that
00:18:58
have been said. First, I I don't know
00:19:00
anyone saying that the robots are going
00:19:02
to eat the children. So, I want to thank
00:19:03
Kevin for educating me on a talking
00:19:05
point there. Uh, I'm less concerned
00:19:08
about that. A lot less concerned. Uh,
00:19:10
but I am concerned about some level of
00:19:12
death with AI, and that has already
00:19:14
begun to happen. There are reports that
00:19:16
we use AI in targeting that girl school
00:19:19
in Tehran where we killed over 160
00:19:22
innocent school girls. Uh, so if that's
00:19:24
what AI is going to bring us in
00:19:26
precision, as Kevin pulled it, called
00:19:29
it, uh, no thank you. I'm not interested
00:19:31
in that kind of non-precision. Um, and
00:19:34
and I would much rather have human
00:19:35
beings involved in life and death
00:19:37
decisions. And I'm super worried that AI
00:19:40
is going to be used more in the military
00:19:42
and uh, no, I do not trust Palanteer.
00:19:45
Um, so now in terms of universal basic
00:19:48
income, I mean, think about it, guys. If
00:19:50
a coder is making $120,000, you know, I
00:19:53
I don't know where that puts him in two
00:19:55
years in, seven years in, uh, it's a
00:19:58
healthy salary. It's not the world's
00:19:59
greatest salary, but it's a good good
00:20:01
salary for a middle class person in
00:20:02
America. Then you switch to UBI, you'd
00:20:05
be lucky to get 3,000 a month. That's
00:20:07
36,000 a year. You're going to go from
00:20:09
120,000 to 36,000. That is going to be
00:20:12
devastating. Even if you magically got
00:20:15
universal basic income passed in America
00:20:18
immediately as the wave of unemployment
00:20:20
hit, but I don't think that's going to
00:20:21
happen either. So, is the wave of
00:20:23
unemployment going to hit? Well, if you
00:20:25
notice, Kevin actually didn't address
00:20:26
that at all. uh because there's no
00:20:29
question that it's going to happen. That
00:20:30
is why literally every CEO of the AI
00:20:34
companies is saying, well, you know, our
00:20:35
product is great and you should value us
00:20:37
at a trillion dollars or so. Uh but
00:20:39
yeah, you're all going to be fired. And
00:20:41
and that's inescapable. It's already
00:20:43
begun. The coders have already started
00:20:46
getting fired, especially young coders.
00:20:48
Uh they feel totally betrayed. They have
00:20:51
to find a new line of work. But maybe
00:20:53
that's a little bit easier for them
00:20:54
because they're young and they're smart
00:20:56
and they're professionals, etc. Uh, and
00:20:58
there's a lot of smart folks, but
00:21:00
getting a new profession at the age of
00:21:01
58, 62, what if you're a truck driver?
00:21:04
Um, and so I'm not saying that the
00:21:06
Whimos don't work better. I actually
00:21:08
would trust a Whimo more than I would
00:21:10
trust a human driver. But nevertheless,
00:21:13
that car no longer has a driver that it
00:21:15
did when it was a taxi or an Uber or a
00:21:17
lift. And I understand that change
00:21:19
happens. And look, I'm a progressive.
00:21:22
for change politically, for massive
00:21:24
change. I thought Obama did comically
00:21:26
little change. Um, but we have to be
00:21:29
careful with change. So, which direction
00:21:31
is it going to go and how are we going
00:21:32
to handle it? Right now, I think Wall
00:21:34
Street has lost its mind. How could we
00:21:38
be at record numbers? Who do you think's
00:21:40
going to buy your products? So, this guy
00:21:43
named Nick Hanower, there's a lot of
00:21:44
folks who believe in this, but he's a
00:21:45
big advocate of it. really smart guy up
00:21:47
in Seattle, also an entrepreneur, also
00:21:49
sold his business and has done well, and
00:21:52
he talks about middle out economics. If
00:21:54
we give more advantages to the middle
00:21:56
class, they immediately spend their
00:21:58
money. If you give it to the rich, which
00:22:00
is what we've done all our lives with
00:22:01
this neoliberal nonsense that we've been
00:22:03
doing, uh, and trickle down economics,
00:22:06
well, they barely spend any of it. So,
00:22:08
giving to the middle is a much better
00:22:10
way to go. And of course, the question
00:22:12
is, how are you going to do that? And
00:22:14
you don't just want to give away money.
00:22:16
Uh, on the other hand, we give away
00:22:17
money to oil companies and big drug
00:22:19
companies and every one who's got
00:22:21
excellent army of lobbyists in DC, but
00:22:26
we're not ready. And no one on earth has
00:22:30
given me a plan for, "Oh, Jen, don't
00:22:32
worry. When 10% unemployment hits, which
00:22:34
is at this point almost baked in,
00:22:36
completely inevitable, right? Um, what
00:22:39
are we going to do? 10% unemployment
00:22:41
would be worse than anything that's ever
00:22:43
happened in our lifetimes, let alone if
00:22:45
you get to 25%. Zero plans for it. None.
00:22:48
When that when we hit the iceberg, we're
00:22:50
not going to be ready and it is going to
00:22:52
be an epic disaster. There isn't going
00:22:54
to be anyone to buy your goods because
00:22:58
employees are also customers and you're
00:23:01
going to lose a massive amount of
00:23:03
customers and it is going to absolutely
00:23:05
torpedo our economy. I can't believe how
00:23:08
shortsighted Wall Street is. Now, does
00:23:11
that mean we stop AI in its tracks and
00:23:13
we stop change? No, we can't stop
00:23:16
because it's it's true that China is
00:23:18
also going, Russia is, North Korea is,
00:23:20
Israel is.
00:23:22
Now, the problem is if we get it first,
00:23:24
then very very likely the Israelis will
00:23:26
also have it and God help the world if
00:23:28
that's true. Uh they have not been
00:23:30
restrained in how they use their power
00:23:32
and I wouldn't want them anywhere near
00:23:34
that kind of power. But nevertheless,
00:23:36
there is a race. So
00:23:39
we can't just stop. So can we do the
00:23:42
race in a way that is responsible and
00:23:44
actually serves the American voters and
00:23:46
citizens instead of just serving the
00:23:49
executives of the AI companies and the
00:23:51
shareholders of the AI companies? I hope
00:23:54
we can, but we've taken absolutely zero
00:23:56
steps in that direction.
00:23:58
>> So let's get specific, Jenk. What might
00:24:00
that look like to to continue developing
00:24:02
this technology but do it in a way
00:24:04
that's responsible and benefits
00:24:06
everybody? Because this is kind of what
00:24:07
I hear a lot of. I hear from one side
00:24:09
people saying we need to carry on going
00:24:11
or you know the robots and the kids
00:24:13
thing. On the other hand I hear we need
00:24:15
to be responsible but either side don't
00:24:18
tend to be very specific about what
00:24:20
their definition of responsible or a
00:24:23
race a responsible race might look like.
00:24:25
So does anyone have any specifics? Jenk.
00:24:28
>> Yeah. So look, it's a it's a tough uh
00:24:31
industry to regulate. I get it. You have
00:24:34
to move fast and regulation usually
00:24:36
involves some degree of bureaucracy. Um
00:24:38
but if you have no regulation at all,
00:24:41
you will have it run a muck. That's
00:24:43
pretty much guaranteed. And all the
00:24:44
leaders of the AI companies say
00:24:46
likewise. So um we've got to the problem
00:24:50
here in America is that it's nearly
00:24:52
unsolvable in the window of time that
00:24:54
we're talking about because we've lost
00:24:56
our democracy in America. But we've
00:24:58
legalized bribery that happened back in
00:25:00
Supreme Court decisions in 1976 78 and
00:25:03
then of course Citizens United. And so
00:25:06
since we have legalized bribery in this
00:25:08
country, there's no way they're going to
00:25:09
serve the voters. So whichever AI
00:25:11
companies are giving them more money,
00:25:13
they're going to serve them. And that's
00:25:14
already begun to happen. And the AI
00:25:16
companies have already started getting
00:25:17
involved in primaries and eliminating
00:25:19
their opponents through money and
00:25:21
politics. So, our politicians are deeply
00:25:24
deeply corrupt in America. Republicans
00:25:26
and Democrats, they almost all serve the
00:25:28
donor class. So, we we won't make it.
00:25:31
We'll I'm telling you right now, uh
00:25:34
we're going to run into the iceberg and
00:25:36
it's going to be an epic disaster. The
00:25:38
only hope is electing a smart person
00:25:40
who's prepared in 2028. Uh that that can
00:25:43
begin to get us on the road. So now when
00:25:45
the disaster hits, the AI shareholders
00:25:49
and executives aren't going to like it
00:25:50
either because the reaction will likely
00:25:53
be tremendous anger. And then someone
00:25:55
like me is going to say, "Hey, you know
00:25:57
what? Uh why do they get to keep all the
00:26:00
money and you're all broke and out of a
00:26:02
job? They created this cost which is
00:26:05
unemployment. Why don't they pay for it?
00:26:08
So why don't we take some of the
00:26:10
billions and billions and billions of
00:26:11
dollars that these AI companies have
00:26:13
made and put it towards their costs,
00:26:15
which is the unemployment of the
00:26:16
American people. So they could at a
00:26:18
minimum fund unemployment insurance and
00:26:21
we could make sure that that's very
00:26:22
healthy. Uh and we they could begin to
00:26:24
fund other things that might actually
00:26:25
help other human beings. I know heaven
00:26:28
forend that a millionaire or a
00:26:30
billionaire should ever help another
00:26:32
human being. But if you don't, the
00:26:34
pitchforks are coming. I'm not a
00:26:35
pitchfork guy. I'm I believe in
00:26:37
nonviolence and I always will. Uh but I
00:26:40
don't think people get the level of
00:26:42
anger that's happening. I'll try to stop
00:26:44
it, but the pitchforks will be
00:26:46
significant. And this whole thing of no,
00:26:48
I get all the money and you get nothing.
00:26:51
Will not play well. You can try it, but
00:26:54
it will end in disaster.
00:26:55
>> Kevin, the pitchforks are coming. We're
00:26:57
going to hit an iceberg. And it also
00:26:58
sounded like AI is going to ultimately
00:27:01
lead to a rise in what sounded like
00:27:03
socialism.
00:27:04
>> Wow. Jake's a real Debbie Downer today.
00:27:07
You know, this has been forecast in the
00:27:09
American economy. Every 20 years, it's
00:27:11
the end of the free world as we know it.
00:27:13
And that's not what happens. Let's go
00:27:15
back and do a little factchecking on
00:27:17
Jakester here. First of all, AI
00:27:19
companies lose billions. They don't make
00:27:21
any money right now. They're in a race,
00:27:24
as we talked about earlier, against
00:27:25
China primarily. They're raising a ton
00:27:28
of capital and losing billions every
00:27:30
year. We don't know yet how they're
00:27:33
going to monetize it, but the market's
00:27:35
willing to provide it because they see
00:27:37
the productivity opportunity and the
00:27:39
cure for cancer and the democracy around
00:27:41
education and productivity for the
00:27:44
nation already been proven by record
00:27:46
earnings in the S&P of which all 11
00:27:48
sectors have adopted the first wave of
00:27:51
AI to enhance productivity and reduce
00:27:53
costs. We don't know yet what new jobs
00:27:56
are going to be created. I'll just talk
00:27:59
about the ones I'm creating in Utah.
00:28:02
4,000 construction jobs for about nine
00:28:04
and a half years highpaying. And another
00:28:07
2,000 engineering and support jobs,
00:28:10
extremely highpaying, because what's now
00:28:12
a desert will be a data center. not near
00:28:16
anybody's backyard, not replacing
00:28:19
farmland, not using any of the water the
00:28:21
way the people have been talking about,
00:28:23
not taking any energy from Utah, but in
00:28:26
fact contributing to it, not polluting
00:28:28
the air because we can't do that without
00:28:31
air permits. All of this stuff is a
00:28:33
falsehood. So, what we don't know, and
00:28:36
Jake's right about this, is no one ever
00:28:39
predicts with a new technology what the
00:28:42
outcome is. So, I'm not a doomer on this
00:28:45
stuff. My job here is to maintain a
00:28:49
direct focus on entrepreneurship,
00:28:52
hire as many people as I can because
00:28:55
that's what I do. And I take a lot of
00:28:57
flak. I mean, Jake's hitting me hard
00:28:59
today and he and I appreciate he's an
00:29:01
intelligent guy and he's got an opinion
00:29:03
and I'm glad we're in this narrative and
00:29:06
having this discourse. It's important,
00:29:08
but let's deal with fact,
00:29:11
not rhetoric and not hysteria. Because I
00:29:15
still go back to the robots eating the
00:29:17
babies, cuz that's all I all I listen to
00:29:19
every day. It's just ludicrous. And I
00:29:22
don't think robots are actually going to
00:29:24
do as much as people think or look the
00:29:27
way they think. They're not going to be
00:29:28
humanoid walking around taking out your
00:29:30
garbage. That's not how it's going to
00:29:32
work. Robots have been building cars for
00:29:34
decades now and doing other things in
00:29:37
medical research and robotics have been
00:29:39
used in all kinds of technologies and
00:29:41
chipm and everything else but they don't
00:29:43
they don't look like people walking
00:29:45
around. So, you know, I I say to myself,
00:29:48
we don't know what we don't know, and
00:29:50
that's fair. But to say that all of
00:29:52
these AI companies are making billions
00:29:55
of dollars and something else, and Jake
00:29:58
knows this, most of the taxes in America
00:30:03
are paid by the rich people. They pay
00:30:06
their fair share now. So if you take it
00:30:09
past 50%
00:30:12
like California, like New York, like New
00:30:15
Jersey, like Massachusetts in the
00:30:18
Constitution of America with the
00:30:20
forethought of the founding fathers,
00:30:22
they believed in the competition of
00:30:24
states. And so you have people moving
00:30:28
Schultz to Florida, you know, the Google
00:30:31
guys to Florida, some have gone to
00:30:34
Texas. If you want to steal rich
00:30:36
people's money, go ahead. They'll just
00:30:38
move. And if you really make it
00:30:41
difficult for them in every state in
00:30:42
America, they'll do what they did in
00:30:44
England. They'll find a new America.
00:30:46
That's what made America great to over
00:30:48
200 years ago. Taxation.
00:30:51
It doesn't work. The thing about
00:30:53
socialism and communism is you run out
00:30:55
of other people's money very quickly
00:30:58
because they simply leave. The French
00:31:01
figured that out. That's what happened
00:31:03
any in England when they raised 90% tax
00:31:05
rates. Monaco, I mean, it only exists
00:31:09
because the French screwed the rich
00:31:10
French guys and they all move four miles
00:31:12
across the border. It's very simple. You
00:31:15
want to support entrepreneurship and job
00:31:18
creation. Only onethird of the
00:31:20
population in America can be
00:31:22
entrepreneurs and they employ the other
00:31:24
twothirds. That's the way it's been for
00:31:27
200 years and it's a great thing. And I
00:31:31
don't see anybody else investing money
00:31:33
anywhere else except America 52% of the
00:31:36
time. 52 cents of every dollar on earth
00:31:40
from sovereign wealth comes to America
00:31:43
because it has the opportunity. No other
00:31:45
country. I don't see a lot of people
00:31:47
saying boy would I like to invest in
00:31:49
North Korea. Hey, can you get me into
00:31:51
Russia? Is there a Russian fund I can
00:31:54
invest in? Oh, can I invest in Cuba? I
00:31:57
don't think so. I don't want to put my
00:31:59
money there for retirement. That's why
00:32:01
I'm talking about this. The facts are
00:32:03
the facts. Get over it. Inhale.
00:32:07
Everybody chillax and let's keep the
00:32:09
American dream going.
00:32:12
Jen, I'll get your response to that.
00:32:14
Many things said there. I mean, the core
00:32:15
argument there is if you try and tax
00:32:17
rich people, they're going to leave and
00:32:18
go somewhere else and, you know, we
00:32:19
might end up like Cuba.
00:32:21
>> Yeah. So, I did I miss this meme about
00:32:25
the robots eating the kids because I
00:32:27
don't know why they
00:32:29
>> I love the robots eating the kids. I
00:32:30
just don't think it's going to happen.
00:32:33
>> I don't think anybody thinks it's going
00:32:34
to happen. It sounds like it was made
00:32:36
up. Um, okay. So, there's some
00:32:38
fear-mongering about robots eating kids
00:32:40
and how America's going to turn
00:32:42
communist or something. No, no, no.
00:32:44
Look, as I said, we're capitalists.
00:32:46
We're just trying to figure out what's
00:32:47
the best way to do this. Capitalism
00:32:50
isn't supposed to be let's crush the
00:32:52
average guy and make sure the corporate
00:32:53
CEOs get everything. I'm a corporate
00:32:55
CEO, but it's not right and it's not
00:32:57
balanced and it's not American. The
00:32:59
American way is to make sure that we
00:33:01
build a super strong middle class that
00:33:04
are great, productive citizens, voters,
00:33:07
and by the way, consumers, right? And so
00:33:10
if we lose track of that, then we're all
00:33:14
going to be doomed. So, like Kevin's so
00:33:17
worried that somebody's going to take
00:33:18
his money. And it's not just Kevin. They
00:33:20
always like threaten us like, "Oh, oh
00:33:22
yeah, we'll leave. I mean, don't
00:33:24
threaten me with a good time." Uh, but
00:33:26
but beyond that,
00:33:29
okay, but beyond that, Kevin, that's not
00:33:32
going to be your main problem. When you
00:33:33
don't have any consumers, that's going
00:33:35
to be your main problem. You have to
00:33:38
protect the American middle class. That,
00:33:40
you know, you could argue that's the
00:33:42
goose that lays the golden eggs. And you
00:33:44
guys keep chipping away and chipping
00:33:46
away at that middle class. And so right
00:33:48
now, Stephen, this late into the
00:33:50
conversation, still no plans on what to
00:33:53
do with inevitable massive unemployment.
00:33:57
And what I'm telling you is we're not
00:33:58
going to go necessarily to communism,
00:34:00
but we are going to wonder, wait, why is
00:34:03
everyone unemployed and and only a
00:34:06
couple of people have reaped billions or
00:34:08
trillions of dollars? So, and and and
00:34:10
come on, Kevin. You know, you know how
00:34:12
uh the economy works and the markets
00:34:14
work. Yes, you invest into it in the
00:34:16
beginning and that's why right now
00:34:17
they're theoretically losing billions of
00:34:19
dollars. Same exact thing that happened
00:34:20
to Amazon. And then later you make
00:34:22
billions and maybe even trillions.
00:34:23
That's why their stock prices are so
00:34:25
high. And so they're powered by that
00:34:28
investment and later they'll reap the
00:34:30
rewards. And when they reap those
00:34:31
rewards, it's fair to ask who got you
00:34:34
those rewards. It's not to say that the
00:34:36
entrepreneurs didn't and the employees
00:34:38
and the shareholders of those companies
00:34:39
didn't, but there were other factors
00:34:41
involved, including all the American
00:34:43
government and the American people that
00:34:45
supported the infrastructure that made
00:34:47
that happen. That conversation is going
00:34:49
to be inevitable when we have tens of
00:34:51
millions of people unemployed. And and
00:34:54
guys, there's one other factor that's
00:34:55
involved there. When you have a lot of
00:34:58
unemployed young men sitting around,
00:35:01
usually what happens is nothing good.
00:35:04
Wars happen, crime goes up. We have to
00:35:07
be prepared. And all I'm hearing from
00:35:10
the AI industry is like, as Kevin said,
00:35:13
chillax. Don't sweat it, bro. Don't
00:35:16
worry. We're going to have all the money
00:35:18
and then you guys, I don't know, you'll
00:35:19
figure it out and I'll be in Monaco.
00:35:21
Monaco. That was hilarious. Monaco.
00:35:26
So maybe that's where the child eating
00:35:27
robots are. Uh, so Kevin, be careful.
00:35:30
>> Kevin, your thoughts on that? No. No.
00:35:32
there's, you know, saying there's no
00:35:34
answers and we're we're being asked to
00:35:35
just chillax. I think Kevin, you do
00:35:37
acknowledge that there will be a change
00:35:39
in the occupation mix in America, right?
00:35:42
Even as a a founder and CEO myself and
00:35:44
as a business owner that employs
00:35:45
hundreds of people, I am thinking
00:35:47
differently about especially entry-
00:35:49
level positions in a way that I wasn't
00:35:52
honestly 6 months ago before some of the
00:35:53
models got more advanced, especially as
00:35:55
it relates to things like coding. But
00:35:57
I'm thinking very, very differently
00:35:58
about who to hire. And actually, one of
00:36:00
the things I find myself naturally doing
00:36:01
is the person that still is on the
00:36:03
coldface of hiring in my company is when
00:36:05
I see entry- level positions, the first
00:36:07
thing I'm looking for is if they have an
00:36:08
AI proficiency. And there are candidates
00:36:11
now, even for me at entry- level
00:36:12
positions that I'm not selecting for
00:36:14
because I realize that someone with an
00:36:15
AI proficiency in that exact same role
00:36:18
is now like a five or 10x person. And so
00:36:22
I I'm just experiencing myself making
00:36:24
different hiring decisions as a founder.
00:36:26
And I'm I'm sure you are as well. People
00:36:29
think that engineers are going to be
00:36:31
replaced by AI codew writing. Uh claude
00:36:35
is one of the tools being used right
00:36:36
now. But actually most engineers aren't
00:36:40
hired to write code. They're hired to
00:36:43
solve problems. They use code to try and
00:36:46
solve those problems. So you know
00:36:48
companies that have been firing people,
00:36:51
everybody's attributing it to AI. It's
00:36:53
not true. There's been a lot of fat in a
00:36:56
lot of these companies that hired trying
00:36:58
to assume what would happen next. They
00:36:59
got it wrong. So I don't think we've yet
00:37:01
seen what the outcome's going to be. I
00:37:04
tend to be the optimist as I talked
00:37:06
about other technologies in the past
00:37:09
being loathed for the fact that they
00:37:11
cause disruption. There is no question
00:37:13
AI is disruptive.
00:37:15
Um
00:37:16
>> Kevin, did you see this week Figure AI,
00:37:18
which is one of the humanoid robot
00:37:19
companies, did a live stream for I think
00:37:21
it was four days where they just showed
00:37:23
a robot um on a sort of factory floor
00:37:27
sorting out parcels for four straight
00:37:29
days and it it did it better and faster
00:37:31
than humans doing it. This was a
00:37:33
humanoid robot. And so the one of the
00:37:35
things I think about is if you listen to
00:37:37
someone like Elon Musk who's made a
00:37:38
prediction, this is a direct quote from
00:37:40
him. My prediction is that there will be
00:37:42
far far more robots like intelligent
00:37:44
robots in the world than there will be
00:37:46
people. Long term I think the ratio of
00:37:48
humanoid robots will be more like 2:1.
00:37:52
There might be two humanoid robots or
00:37:55
more for every one human. And when you
00:37:58
when you think about Elon Musk's
00:37:59
predictions over time, to his credit,
00:38:01
sometimes his time frames are wrong. But
00:38:04
when he says the rocket is going to land
00:38:06
on the chopsticks, the rocket eventually
00:38:08
lands on the chopsticks. when he says,
00:38:10
"My car in LA, my Tesla, will eventually
00:38:12
drive itself without me interfering,"
00:38:14
the car eventually drives itself. So,
00:38:16
with Elon's track record in predicting
00:38:18
what he'll be able to do with
00:38:19
technology, I think he's got a pretty
00:38:21
solid track record. So, when he says
00:38:23
these humanoid robots are going to be
00:38:25
better at surgery or cleaning or
00:38:28
whatever than humans in short order,
00:38:31
sometimes predicting, you know, time
00:38:33
frames of 2027, 2028, I tend to believe
00:38:37
him. Is he lying? Because if he's
00:38:39
telling the truth, what we're seeing is
00:38:41
both the disruption of intelligence, but
00:38:43
also, one could say, the disruption of
00:38:44
our muscles at the same time. And I
00:38:47
can't think of a comparable like the
00:38:48
industrial revolution where humans like
00:38:51
two real um sort of professional
00:38:54
productivity driving forces of their
00:38:56
brains and their their physicality are
00:38:59
being disrupted at the same time. And
00:39:01
just to give you another story to
00:39:02
overlay onto this, my co-founder and my
00:39:04
company called Third Webb, big company,
00:39:05
we've raised 30 odd million dollars.
00:39:07
It's out in San Francisco. I went down
00:39:09
to his his uh entrepreneurship
00:39:11
accelerator. I've not been there in 2
00:39:13
years. And I I arrived and I was like,
00:39:14
"Why is everyone building robotics?" And
00:39:16
he said to me, he goes, "Stephen, the
00:39:18
robot pieces have been here for decades.
00:39:20
We've always had them. What we've been
00:39:21
missing and the expensive part was the
00:39:23
intelligence." And he tooured me through
00:39:25
this 40,000 square ft um building called
00:39:28
Ethink down in San Francisco. And I saw
00:39:30
a robot cooking with a robot arm making
00:39:34
food. I saw a robot making perfume for
00:39:37
you. Whatever perfume you wanted, this
00:39:39
big machine that just makes it for you.
00:39:40
And he says, because we've got
00:39:41
intelligence and we've always had the
00:39:43
machinery, there's going to be this huge
00:39:45
explosion of robotics that we've always
00:39:47
been waiting for. Intelligence was the
00:39:49
missing piece. And now he says it costs
00:39:51
pennies and everyone there is building,
00:39:53
not software anymore. They're all
00:39:54
building robotics. And so for me, I was
00:39:57
like, wow,
00:39:58
the future's going to look very, very
00:40:00
different, I think, in short order than
00:40:02
the past. And I'm just a realist. So,
00:40:03
I'm not trying to be pessimistic or
00:40:05
optimistic. I think there's truth on
00:40:06
both sides. But Kevin, do you
00:40:08
acknowledge that the jobs that we have
00:40:10
today in large part are going to go
00:40:12
away.
00:40:13
>> Yeah. You know, I don't think um shaking
00:40:16
a perfume bottle is a great job for
00:40:18
anybody, but I do think, and I'll give
00:40:20
you two examples, cuz maybe you're right
00:40:22
about Elon, he doesn't get a big chunk
00:40:25
of his stock unless he populates Mars
00:40:27
with a million people. NASA announced 6
00:40:30
hours ago that they're going to put a
00:40:32
permanent
00:40:34
plant there on the moon, an established
00:40:37
base on the moon. Can you imagine the
00:40:41
hundreds of thousands of jobs just those
00:40:45
two activities are going to create to
00:40:48
actually execute on that highpaying jobs
00:40:53
engineers analysts coders everything the
00:40:56
manufacturing of facilities to take to
00:40:58
Mars to take to the moon I mean
00:41:00
everybody wants to talk about the guy
00:41:02
shaking perfume bottles losing his job
00:41:05
when you're talking about millions of
00:41:07
jobs on new opportunities for mankind
00:41:10
that no one even could think about 24
00:41:13
months ago that have been announced
00:41:14
today. So, you either have to be a
00:41:18
jaker, a doomser, like you know, it's
00:41:21
the end of the free world as we know it
00:41:22
and we're all going to be eaten by
00:41:23
robots or you're in my camp saying the
00:41:26
opportunity is so bright I got to wear
00:41:29
shades. I got to buy more sunglasses for
00:41:32
how bright the future is. This is an
00:41:34
unbelievable opportunity we're talking
00:41:36
about. And we're not wiping out jobs.
00:41:40
We're creating new jobs that are very
00:41:42
highpaying and really interesting for
00:41:45
people to do. Imagine somebody working
00:41:47
on the Mars project or putting data
00:41:50
centers in space or expanding the
00:41:54
telecommunications on Starlink. I mean,
00:41:57
these are the future jobs. No, you know,
00:42:00
I think the person that was born to
00:42:02
shake perfume would rather have a job
00:42:05
getting people onto the moon.
00:42:06
>> Just on this point, Elon, you mentioned
00:42:08
Elon's pay packet. Part of that is he
00:42:10
gets that big payout if there are a
00:42:11
hundred uh sorry, a million humanoid
00:42:14
robots um in very short order. And when
00:42:17
we think about who you might want to
00:42:18
send to Mars, a super intelligent
00:42:21
humanoid robot is probably much easier
00:42:23
to send than a biological human being
00:42:26
for v various reasons to do with
00:42:27
atmospheric pressure. But if if he's
00:42:30
right on both counts on both this
00:42:32
journey to Mars and humanoid robots,
00:42:34
presumably it'll be the humanoid robots
00:42:35
going. I just wanted Kevin, can you tell
00:42:37
me how you might be wrong? I think
00:42:40
that's quite important because I think
00:42:41
it it it shows your ability to see both
00:42:43
sides of the argument. Is there a case
00:42:45
where you could be wrong about this
00:42:47
about this unemployment issue?
00:42:49
>> No. How about that for an answer,
00:42:54
>> Jen?
00:42:58
Yeah. So, look, I shouldn't laugh too
00:43:00
hard because I'm trying to answer that
00:43:03
same question in my head. And Stephen,
00:43:05
it's hard to uh answer it from my
00:43:08
perspective because the interregnum is
00:43:12
just unaccounted for. So, here's what I
00:43:15
mean by that. So, even if we have
00:43:17
Kevin's beautiful uh sunshine scenario,
00:43:21
none of the robots ever eat the
00:43:22
children. I don't know why that keeps
00:43:24
coming back in, but anyway. Um so and
00:43:28
and we create all these wonderful jobs
00:43:30
in in some uh distant future. Well,
00:43:33
okay. Yes. But the nevertheless, the
00:43:35
truck driver and the assembly line guy
00:43:37
and all those folks already lost their
00:43:39
jobs. And the guy who lost his job on an
00:43:42
assembly line in Cleveland is not going
00:43:44
to be able to become the engineer who
00:43:47
figures out how to get on Mars. So, it's
00:43:50
not that he's not capable of it. he's
00:43:52
just 61 years old and he he can't learn
00:43:55
a whole new profession. So this is an
00:43:57
unrealistic conversation. So even if all
00:44:01
of the wonderful scenarios about AI are
00:44:03
true, it would take minimum 20 years to
00:44:06
get to this place where the robots are
00:44:09
running everything, we all have leisure
00:44:11
time and we just can't figure out what
00:44:12
to do with ourselves and we decide how
00:44:14
to get to Venus and and Uranus and
00:44:17
wherever else you want to go. Okay. But
00:44:20
in the meanwhile, in those 20 years, we
00:44:23
had massive waves of unemployment. It is
00:44:26
indisputable. Even as Kevin explains it,
00:44:29
he says, "Well, you know, you're not
00:44:30
going to be doing doing the perfume
00:44:31
shaking, you're not doing the assembly
00:44:33
line, you're not doing the driving,
00:44:34
you're not doing this, you're not doing
00:44:35
that. All those jobs are going to go."
00:44:38
And in fact, if you actually just listen
00:44:40
to folks on Wall Street, they brag about
00:44:42
it nonstop. Oh, we're going to get to,
00:44:45
you know, cut 25%. We're going to have
00:44:47
synergies. we're going to have cost
00:44:49
cutting. And then when people say that,
00:44:51
everybody gets the analysts get excited
00:44:52
and they're like, "Oh, bye, bye."
00:44:54
They're going to fire all their
00:44:55
employees. And then the other guy goes,
00:44:56
"No, no, no. I'm going to fire them even
00:44:58
quicker." And they go, "Bye, bye bye."
00:45:00
And not once have they thought, "Who's
00:45:01
going to buy the actual products?" And
00:45:04
they just don't have an answer for that.
00:45:06
So into into there is going to be
00:45:09
upheaval, massive upheaval. And it
00:45:11
doesn't And I'm not a doomsday guy. My
00:45:14
god, we have a thing called Operation
00:45:16
Hope on on the Young Turks. Um, we our
00:45:20
slogan is get caught trying. No, no, I'm
00:45:22
an enormously optimistic guy and I think
00:45:24
we can solve these issues, but we got to
00:45:26
try to solve them. And I don't see
00:45:28
anyone even trying to solve them now
00:45:30
again outside of Roana.
00:45:32
>> Kevin, I spoke to Dra, the CEO of Uber,
00:45:35
and I think I'm right in saying that
00:45:36
driving is the biggest employer in the
00:45:38
world. And when I asked Dra, who's the
00:45:40
CEO of Uber, if they're going to um
00:45:43
create autonomous vehicles very very
00:45:45
quickly to automate the 9.4 million
00:45:49
drivers that they have. He said that
00:45:51
they are. And then I asked him the
00:45:52
question, what will those 9.4 million
00:45:54
people do? And his response to me, the
00:45:56
direct quote is he said, I don't know.
00:46:00
Which is pretty pretty shocking. He also
00:46:04
noted that privately he said, "I have to
00:46:07
be honest. AI will replace 9.4 million
00:46:10
jobs at Uber. Tech executives are not
00:46:13
being transparent about AI. They talk
00:46:15
behind closed doors about the sheer
00:46:16
amount of disruption they anticipate,
00:46:18
but they don't talk about it publicly.
00:46:22
Look, I don't think we're going to make
00:46:23
any progress, more progress on this
00:46:24
issue." So, um, because
00:46:27
>> well, I think I think you're bringing a
00:46:28
great point, but the fact is we don't
00:46:30
know what comes next. Much of the reason
00:46:33
most people haven't posted content or
00:46:35
built their personal brand is because
00:46:37
it's hard and it's timeconuming and
00:46:39
we're all very very busy and if you've
00:46:41
never posted something before there's so
00:46:44
many factors in your psychology that
00:46:46
stop you wanting to post what people
00:46:48
will think of you am I doing this right
00:46:50
is the thing I'm saying absolutely
00:46:51
stupid all of these result in paralysis
00:46:54
which means you don't post and your feed
00:46:56
goes bare I'm an investor in a company
00:46:59
called Stanto which you've probably
00:47:01
heard me talk about and what they've
00:47:02
been building is this new tool called
00:47:03
Stanley that uses AI, looks at your
00:47:06
feed, looks at your tone of voice, looks
00:47:07
at your history, looks at your best
00:47:08
performing posts, and tells you what you
00:47:11
should post, makes those posts for you.
00:47:13
You can also just use it for
00:47:14
inspiration. And sometimes what we need
00:47:16
when we're thinking about doing a post
00:47:18
for our social media channels is
00:47:19
inspiration. Building an audience has
00:47:21
fundamentally changed my life, and I
00:47:23
think it could change yours, too. So,
00:47:25
I'm inviting you to give this new tool a
00:47:27
shot and let me know what you think. All
00:47:29
you have to do is search
00:47:30
coach.stand.sto. store now to get
00:47:32
started.
00:47:35
>> Steve, what are you doing?
00:47:36
>> Uh, just making myself a delicious
00:47:38
coffee
00:47:39
>> from the freezer.
00:47:40
>> From the freezer? Have you not heard
00:47:41
about CompTIA?
00:47:42
>> No.
00:47:43
>> Oh my gosh, this is going to change your
00:47:44
life. Couple of months ago, the founder
00:47:47
of this business called Matt sent a big
00:47:48
shipment of this coffee to our office in
00:47:52
London. What most people don't know is
00:47:53
that the processing of coffee takes out
00:47:54
a lot of the taste. So, what they do is
00:47:56
they flash freeze it at the optimal
00:47:59
moment when it's most tasty and they
00:48:02
send you in the post the coffee in these
00:48:04
little frozen ice cubes. Now, Matt sent
00:48:06
a big shipment to my office. I moved it
00:48:08
to the kitchen. I said to the team,
00:48:09
"Knock yourselves out." And then I saw
00:48:11
so many messages in our Slack channel of
00:48:12
people going, "Oh my god, what the hell
00:48:15
is that? It's so delicious." All I have
00:48:17
to do is pop it out in the morning using
00:48:19
the little button on the back of this
00:48:20
thing. I pour my hot water in and I mix
00:48:23
it and that is done. You can get $30 off
00:48:27
your first order of Cometier coffee if
00:48:30
you go to cometier.com/stephven.
00:48:33
Try it and please Instagram DM me,
00:48:35
LinkedIn me and let me know if you love
00:48:37
it as much as I do.
00:48:40
One of the things that's probably going
00:48:41
to be a disruptor to
00:48:44
AI's so I should say America's ability
00:48:46
to pursue these technologies is what's
00:48:48
going on with president approval ratings
00:48:50
at the moment. I've got this uh graph
00:48:52
here in front of me which you you know
00:48:53
you don't need to be able to zoom in to
00:48:55
see which shows that President Trump's
00:48:57
approval rating is declining rapidly in
00:48:59
part because of what's going on in the
00:49:00
Middle East. I wanted to get um Jenk
00:49:03
your opinion on what all of this stuff
00:49:05
is. As someone like me I don't really
00:49:06
know much about politics. I know that
00:49:08
there's these midterms coming up in
00:49:09
November time in the US, um, which is
00:49:12
going to be consequential, but from a
00:49:14
30,000 foot perspective, how do I how do
00:49:17
I pass out the truth of this war?
00:49:19
Because Trump seems to be saying
00:49:20
different things. Every day there's a
00:49:21
ceasefire with Iran, and then there's
00:49:23
and then they're bombing again. I think
00:49:25
2 days ago, they started bombing again,
00:49:26
which they call defensive strikes, and
00:49:28
then there's a ceasefire, and he says
00:49:29
there's a deal about to be done, and
00:49:31
then there's some bombing again. The
00:49:32
straight straight of Hormuse is open,
00:49:34
then it's closed, then it's I just don't
00:49:35
know what the truth is. Chank, in your
00:49:37
opinion, what is the truth? What's going
00:49:38
on?
00:49:40
>> Yeah. So, first let's start with uh the
00:49:42
president's polling numbers. Yeah.
00:49:43
They've been uh decimated by this war.
00:49:46
They were already in trouble because the
00:49:47
Epstein files and he didn't do anything
00:49:48
about affordability. Just gave a massive
00:49:51
tax cut for the rich as usual. Did
00:49:53
whatever Israel wants as usual. Uh and
00:49:56
so now, uh you know, he's eaten into his
00:49:59
own base. So, he's barely hanging on to
00:50:02
a majority of non-MAGA Republicans that
00:50:06
voted for him. Only 53% still support
00:50:08
him. He's lost about 20% of hardcore
00:50:11
MAGA. Uh his disapproval numbers are at
00:50:14
record numbers now. Um 68% of the
00:50:17
country thinks we're going in the wrong
00:50:18
direction. Uh he they about 76% of the
00:50:22
country is dissatisfied with how the
00:50:24
economy is going. And a lot of that is
00:50:27
because of the war. And so the war is
00:50:29
obviously driving up gas prices which is
00:50:31
then uh leading to uh inflation in other
00:50:34
areas. Of course a lot of things uh use
00:50:37
not just oil and gas but fertilizer
00:50:40
which has also been blocked uh through
00:50:42
the straight of hormuz. So we're we're
00:50:44
having an energy crisis um actually
00:50:46
mainly in Asia and Europe uh more so
00:50:49
than than even America. So that's why
00:50:51
the South Koreans are livid at the
00:50:53
Israelis that they're having to cons,
00:50:55
you know, conserve gas and go through
00:50:58
lean times because Israel wanted this
00:51:00
war and literally no one else on planet
00:51:02
Earth did. And so shortages in India and
00:51:06
this is all before we re-engage and
00:51:09
restart the war, which is what I'm
00:51:10
afraid is going to come next. So now
00:51:13
it's some folks have a hard time
00:51:16
believing this, but we we have to go
00:51:17
back to a conversation we had earlier.
00:51:19
Remember in America we legalize bribery.
00:51:23
So um one uh corporation can give to an
00:51:27
infinite amount to a super PAC uh
00:51:29
corporate interest, lobbyists,
00:51:31
individuals. To give you a sense of the
00:51:33
scale of the problem, one family alone
00:51:35
uh the Aden family, Miriam and Sheldon
00:51:37
Adlesen have given Donald Trump over
00:51:40
$317
00:51:42
million in campaign contributions. We
00:51:44
used to have a word for that. It was
00:51:46
called a bribe. And Trump is so
00:51:49
accidentally honest on this stuff, he
00:51:51
just can't keep anything in his head uh
00:51:53
from going outside his mouth. So he has
00:51:56
said, "Oh, Miriam, she cares more about
00:51:58
Israel than America, right?" I'm like,
00:52:00
"No, that's super awkward." And then he
00:52:02
says, "Oh, Sheldon Adlesen used to come
00:52:04
in here and tell me what to do all the
00:52:05
time." And then I did it, you know, and
00:52:07
I moved the embassy for the Adles, our
00:52:09
embassy in Israel. He's just, you know,
00:52:12
basically selling off our foreign
00:52:13
policy. To be fair to him, almost all of
00:52:15
our politicians do that. uh Israel gives
00:52:17
to 94% of Congress. So there Israel is
00:52:21
not some unique lobbyist that uh
00:52:23
community that is unseen in the world.
00:52:26
No, all the lobbyists do this. That's
00:52:28
why we give $35 billion in uh oil
00:52:31
subsidies which they're profitable
00:52:33
companies. That makes no sense. Why does
00:52:35
an average person have to give money to
00:52:36
Exon Mobile? That's insanity. Because
00:52:39
big pharma's lobby is so strong, we
00:52:41
can't negotiate prices. Now, when it
00:52:43
comes to Israel, that's when people lose
00:52:45
their minds. And mainstream media goes,
00:52:46
"Okay, you're right about big farmer.
00:52:48
You're right about big oil and defense
00:52:49
contractors and every other lobby. But
00:52:51
if you say the same exact thing about
00:52:53
Israel, we'll call you an anti-semite,
00:52:55
cancel you, and you're never going to
00:52:57
ever get another job again. No criticism
00:53:00
of Israel is allowed without us doing
00:53:02
massive oppression inside this country."
00:53:05
So, we've now got Israel that is totally
00:53:08
empowered to go, you know, rogue. They
00:53:11
don't follow any laws. They don't follow
00:53:14
the laws of war crimes. They've now
00:53:16
invaded Lebanon. They say they're going
00:53:18
to take all the way to the Latani River.
00:53:19
They're going to own southern Lebanon.
00:53:22
They've already ethnically
00:53:24
cleansed southern Lebanon, moved out a
00:53:27
million people to ethnically cleanse
00:53:28
Gaza. Netanyahu on tape bragged about,
00:53:31
oh, we used to have 53% of Gaza after
00:53:33
the war. Uh, now we have over 60%. So,
00:53:36
it was to steal land. That's what it was
00:53:38
about. It wasn't self-defense. Lebanon's
00:53:40
not self-defense. Israel invaded them.
00:53:42
Iran's not self-defense. We invaded
00:53:44
Iran. This war was utterly pointless,
00:53:47
especially from an American perspective.
00:53:49
Let me tell you what American interests
00:53:51
are and what Israeli interests are. And
00:53:52
they're very, very different. And in
00:53:54
America right now, because of we started
00:53:56
this war, we need the straight of Hormuz
00:53:57
open. That's what's hurting our gas
00:53:59
prices and all of our other prices and
00:54:01
affordability, inflation, all of that is
00:54:02
connected to the straight of horm. We
00:54:04
didn't have that problem before the war,
00:54:06
but now we have it. We've got to open it
00:54:08
back up. In order to do that, Iran has
00:54:10
an enormous amount of leverage. We've
00:54:11
got to make a reasonable peace deal.
00:54:13
Good news. We were about to have one
00:54:14
over this weekend. And all we want
00:54:18
theoretically is for them to take out
00:54:20
their to not make nuclear weapons. And
00:54:22
they've already promised 18 different
00:54:24
times that they wouldn't do that. They
00:54:25
did it under the Obama deal. They've
00:54:26
offered it before the war. They've
00:54:28
offered it during the war. So, that is
00:54:30
not an issue. And them promising it
00:54:32
doesn't mean anything. It has to be
00:54:33
verified. So what they're saying is yes,
00:54:35
we will have international monitors
00:54:36
verify that we will not have a weapon.
00:54:39
So that's the only thing that America
00:54:40
said they cared about before the war. So
00:54:42
then we're done. And we just killed 49
00:54:45
of their top regime leaders. Trump says
00:54:48
we destroyed their navy, their air
00:54:49
force, and everything else. We're done.
00:54:52
We have no American interest in there.
00:54:53
The only interest left is leave, open up
00:54:56
the straight of Hormuz so we can get our
00:54:57
economy back on track. Israel, on the
00:55:00
other hand, has said they would like,
00:55:01
and again, this is on tape. Netanyahu
00:55:03
said it. They would like to be the only
00:55:06
regional superpower in the Middle East.
00:55:08
In order to do that, they have to
00:55:09
destroy every other power in the Middle
00:55:11
East. Now, good news for them. They
00:55:13
completely control our Congress and our
00:55:15
presidents. So, uh they got us to they
00:55:18
literally gave us a list after 9/11 of
00:55:20
seven countries they wanted us to attack
00:55:23
on their behalf. We have attacked all
00:55:26
seven. Iran was the last one on that
00:55:28
list. So they want them destroyed so
00:55:31
that they can't fight back when Israel
00:55:33
takes more land as they are doing today.
00:55:35
They don't want anyone to be able to
00:55:37
defend themselves. They're going to kill
00:55:40
and take land as much as humanly
00:55:42
possible. And they want us Americans to
00:55:44
pay the bill. They say, "You owe us a
00:55:47
genocide. You owe us endless string of
00:55:49
wars. You owe us a global war on
00:55:51
terror." No, that was a global war on
00:55:53
Israel's neighbors. That cost us $8
00:55:55
trillion.
00:55:57
We gave $320 billion to Israel so far
00:56:00
already. Lifetime. Why? Why? Why don't
00:56:03
they give us the money back? No. They
00:56:04
say, "You owe us. You owe us. You owe
00:56:06
us. That's why we're in this war." And
00:56:09
by the way, the last thing, Stephen, is
00:56:11
while we're all distracted in Iran,
00:56:12
Israel has taken southern Lebanon. And
00:56:15
now they're saying they're going to keep
00:56:16
it forever. So that was the point of
00:56:18
this war. 100% Israeli interest, 0%
00:56:23
American interest. Let's get out of
00:56:25
there. Let's stop fighting Israel's wars
00:56:27
for them and come back home.
00:56:29
>> What about nuclear weapons? One of the
00:56:30
pretenses is that they were weeks away
00:56:33
from enriching uranium to a point where
00:56:34
that weapon could be used.
00:56:36
>> Yeah. So that's what Netanyahu has been
00:56:38
saying for the last 30 years in back in
00:56:40
the 1990s. Oh, they're weeks away.
00:56:42
They're weeks away. Do you know and you
00:56:44
probably don't know because American
00:56:46
media pretty much works for Israel. And
00:56:48
now when I say that guys, those are not
00:56:49
hyperbole.
00:56:51
Uh the Israeli lobby donate donates I
00:56:54
would say legally bribes like the other
00:56:55
lobbies do. 94%
00:56:59
of Congress. Number one lifetime donor
00:57:01
to Donald Trump is Israel. Number one
00:57:02
lifetime donor to Joe Biden. Number one
00:57:04
lifetime donor to Hakee Jeff, Chuck
00:57:06
Schumer, Mike Johnson. All of our
00:57:08
leaders, their number one lifetime donor
00:57:10
is Apac and the Israeli lobby. They
00:57:12
completely control our government. And
00:57:13
then our media comes and lies to us and
00:57:15
says, "Oh, they're the victims." Well,
00:57:17
we have eyes. We saw Gaza. Gaza is
00:57:20
utterly destroyed and Israel did that
00:57:22
with our money. That's insane. So, no,
00:57:26
we look, is I don't even think Israel is
00:57:29
an ally. I I don't know why in the world
00:57:31
we would ever serve a foreign nation.
00:57:34
They're treading all over us. They've
00:57:35
taken our sovereignty away. They've
00:57:37
taken our freedom away. And all we have
00:57:39
is these dupes in mainstream media
00:57:41
telling us about how they're doing
00:57:43
self-defense. Well, part of self-defense
00:57:45
is I take your land. Currently, they're
00:57:48
taping themselves
00:57:50
going into IDF soldiers are going into
00:57:52
Lebanese homes, Muslims and Christians,
00:57:55
stealing all their property. Then they
00:57:57
put it on online, go a look, we stole
00:57:59
other things. Then they destroy the
00:58:01
homes and they say, "Now this is Israeli
00:58:03
territory." That's not self-defense.
00:58:04
That's terrorism. It we are supporting a
00:58:07
terrorist nation and we're giving them
00:58:10
hundreds of billions of dollars and this
00:58:12
isn't even helping Israel. were enabling
00:58:14
their worst instincts and they're
00:58:16
getting the whole world to hate them.
00:58:18
How does that help Israel to have the
00:58:20
whole world despise you because you're
00:58:22
so selfishly driving up everyone's
00:58:25
prices and creating endless wars?
00:58:27
Literally, no other country on earth
00:58:29
wants this war in Iran to continue other
00:58:32
than Israel.
00:58:33
>> Kevin, you have a different perspective
00:58:35
on the um effectiveness and purpose of
00:58:38
the the original strikes that Trump did.
00:58:40
Are you supportive of this military
00:58:42
operation at large?
00:58:44
>> Well, you know, I'm not a show for uh
00:58:46
any politician. I focus on policy
00:58:49
because that's ultimately what survives.
00:58:51
Politicians come and go. Policy lingers.
00:58:53
I've always said that and that's as an
00:58:55
investor what you have to worry about.
00:58:57
So, um let's talk about the situation in
00:59:00
the Middle East for about 49 years. Um
00:59:05
some people would say 60. It depends
00:59:07
what you believed in the early years.
00:59:09
The Persians are were a very advanced
00:59:12
society in mathematics, poetry, art, you
00:59:14
name it. Uh they're very famous. And
00:59:17
then you have this small um
00:59:20
I I'm going to call it bad management. I
00:59:23
don't know what else to call it. that
00:59:25
took this society, brutalized the people
00:59:28
there, created a million um man army run
00:59:33
by 150,000 people, a super militia
00:59:38
um that caused a lot of chaos in that
00:59:41
region with proxies uh as people have
00:59:43
been talking about. Um and and the this
00:59:46
militia is is paid with cash that's
00:59:50
gotten from um the sales of of energy
00:59:53
and they would stop killing their own
00:59:56
people if they didn't get paid. So that
00:59:58
the the 150,000 that run that country
01:00:01
that brutalize the almost 100 million
01:00:03
others. I mean it's a really strange
01:00:06
platform that hasn't worked for the
01:00:07
people there for 60 years. But it it was
01:00:11
tolerated by all the neighbors until 6
01:00:13
months ago. the United Arab Emirates,
01:00:16
Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, they they
01:00:21
wanted to stay out of it because it was,
01:00:23
you know, it was relatively calm. Every
01:00:25
6 months the hoodies or one of the
01:00:28
uranium proxies would blow up an oil
01:00:30
ship kept the insurance premiums 30%
01:00:32
higher and then the proverbial poo poo
01:00:35
hit the fan. Now, China, let's get down
01:00:38
to business, gets 48% of its energy
01:00:41
through that straight, as does many
01:00:44
other Asian countries. So, they, as Jake
01:00:47
pointed out, um,
01:00:50
uh, you know, basically are underwater.
01:00:54
They don't have energy, Jack, I should
01:00:56
say. So, you know, at the end of the day
01:00:58
here, um, there's a problem. And so,
01:01:01
what's going to happen when this is
01:01:02
over? Um, forget about Look, you can't
01:01:06
let a You can't let a society that 150
01:01:09
people there say, "Let's kill
01:01:12
everybody." I mean, they're on a
01:01:14
different kind of mandate. They they
01:01:16
they're a little a little strange. You
01:01:18
don't want to give those people a
01:01:19
nuclear bomb. I don't care who you are.
01:01:22
They're just offside. And they they're
01:01:24
happy to kill their own people, but I
01:01:25
don't want them killing everybody else
01:01:26
with interbolistic missiles. So, no,
01:01:28
they can't have 90 pounds of rich
01:01:30
uranium. and they're not going to get it
01:01:33
and they're going to keep getting bombed
01:01:35
until they give it up. And at some
01:01:37
point, somebody in there is going to
01:01:38
say, "Whoa, uh, they're really we're
01:01:41
getting tenderized in here and we got to
01:01:42
stop this and we got to get the best
01:01:44
deal we can." We want to stay in power
01:01:46
to keep killing our people as long as we
01:01:48
can because we're the 150,000 guys that
01:01:51
live very well and everybody else lives
01:01:54
like crap. And that's just the way that
01:01:56
society works. And if the people want to
01:01:58
rise up and kill the 150 that are
01:02:00
killing them, they will one day. I don't
01:02:02
know. But here's what I think. I think
01:02:04
the actual countries around there are
01:02:08
going to end up in the same boat that we
01:02:11
have in the Suez and Panama canals where
01:02:14
there's a fee to go through, but it's
01:02:16
managed so that no country, including
01:02:18
China, gets to run it. And so that has
01:02:21
already found peace and all the shipping
01:02:24
lanes are open and the insurance rates
01:02:25
are normal there. So, if you're Saudi
01:02:27
Arabia, you got let's let's say it costs
01:02:29
five billion a month to police the
01:02:33
strait. Okay, that's a good number
01:02:35
because I'm probably right, pretty close
01:02:37
to it. That's nothing for the UAE and
01:02:40
for Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Bahrain.
01:02:43
They're going to need it open. So, if
01:02:45
they have to be like the United Nations
01:02:47
for that region and keep it open, that's
01:02:49
great. Now, I'm staying long the UAE
01:02:52
because I've invested there in in ADGM.
01:02:55
I have a company there. I've got
01:02:56
employees there. I talk to them every
01:02:58
day. I think this is going to end soon.
01:03:01
But I would like to see it in a way that
01:03:04
Iran is isolated. Maybe, you know,
01:03:07
they're not they can't control the
01:03:08
strait and they can't have the nukes.
01:03:10
Those are the two things that I think
01:03:12
have to be resolved. And then if they
01:03:14
want to brutalize their people forever,
01:03:17
okay, you know, they're going to do
01:03:18
that. It's a horrible outcome for those
01:03:20
people. I feel terrible for them. But
01:03:23
this outcome is a good one. If we
01:03:25
resolve those two things, new policing
01:03:27
of the strait, that would be great
01:03:29
because the Chinese need that, they want
01:03:31
that. And at some point, they're going
01:03:34
to squeeze the heads of these Iranian
01:03:36
leaders, whoever they are. They keep
01:03:37
getting killed and a new one pops up
01:03:39
like whack-a-ole. But that's just the
01:03:41
way that regime works. And nobody's
01:03:43
willing to to say, "Look, I I want to
01:03:45
take them over because you got the army
01:03:47
still being paid." But by blocking that
01:03:50
straight for the last 60 days, the the
01:03:54
amount of money they're losing is 210
01:03:58
million US per 24 hours. So at some
01:04:03
point, whoever's running the show there
01:04:05
is going to say, "If we can't pay our
01:04:07
soldiers to kill our people, we're going
01:04:09
to be screwed. They're going to come up
01:04:11
to the top of the castle and take
01:04:13
Frankenstein out." So we got to make
01:04:15
sure we cut a deal. That's why I'm
01:04:17
optimistic. The price of oil is down
01:04:19
almost 16%. It'll get back near 70. I
01:04:23
don't know what that's going to do for
01:04:24
the midterms because, you know, yeah,
01:04:27
the numbers are terrible, but every
01:04:28
incumbent gets screwed in the midterms.
01:04:30
It's it's just the nature of how it
01:04:32
works. Now, whether they lose the
01:04:33
Senate, I don't know. Are they going to
01:04:35
lose the House? Who knows? But if
01:04:36
gasoline's back to 70 bucks, we won't be
01:04:40
having this narrative about
01:04:41
unaffordability around energy in the
01:04:43
United States. And you just don't know.
01:04:46
But I do know that the status quo
01:04:50
because the UAE and Qatar and Bahrain
01:04:56
left those Iranians alone until they
01:04:58
rained missiles on them. Now they're
01:05:00
pissed. And so it's not business as
01:05:03
usual. And so I think the the winds of
01:05:07
change are going to blow through there.
01:05:09
And maybe the upside is the great
01:05:11
Persian people get better leadership
01:05:14
because boy, their leaders suck.
01:05:16
>> Jenk, it sounds like an optimistic um
01:05:18
outcome is being forecasted by Kevin and
01:05:21
I can see you nodding your head there in
01:05:23
a disagreement, shaking your head.
01:05:26
>> Yeah. So, look, again, I'm normally an
01:05:28
optimist here, but we've gotten
01:05:29
ourselves uh in some significant ruts
01:05:32
here. So, uh first of all, u you know,
01:05:36
this whole idea of the Iranian regime is
01:05:37
bad. Okay. Yeah, it is. Uh, it's Muslim
01:05:40
fundamentalist. I don't like
01:05:40
fundamentalists of any religion. I'm an
01:05:42
atheist. Uh, you know, they abuse their
01:05:45
people and they're corrupt. No question
01:05:46
about it. Netanyahu is corrupt. He's up
01:05:49
on corruption charges that seem to never
01:05:50
come. Uh, the Israeli settlers are
01:05:53
religious fundamentalists, biggest
01:05:55
lunatics on earth. They think that God
01:05:57
said to kill the Palestinians and take
01:05:59
their land, and we fund them. We give
01:06:01
them billions of dollars. So, I'm not in
01:06:03
favor of any of these uh
01:06:05
fundamentalists, no matter what religion
01:06:06
they're from. Now, on the issue of
01:06:08
nukes, uh, that you asked about earlier,
01:06:10
Stephen, you know that the reason I
01:06:12
brought up American media is because
01:06:13
they pretty much do nothing but Israeli
01:06:15
propaganda, they never clarified to
01:06:17
anyone. You know that Iran doesn't have
01:06:19
a missile that can deliver any warhead
01:06:22
to America. It just doesn't. It's that
01:06:25
it's never had it. It didn't have it 30
01:06:27
years ago when Netanyahu started saying
01:06:29
it. It doesn't have it today. So, and
01:06:31
they never enriched uranium up to 90%,
01:06:33
which is where you would have to get it
01:06:34
for weapons grade. They get up to about
01:06:36
60% and then we destroy their nuclear
01:06:38
facilities and Trump bragged about it
01:06:39
and now all that's buried underneath. So
01:06:42
where's the question? They're not even
01:06:43
close. And and again they've promised
01:06:46
not only to this repeatedly in
01:06:49
negotiations, but the former Grand
01:06:50
Ayatoll, the one we murdered, uh had
01:06:53
done a fatwa, the most important
01:06:54
religious edict in Shia Islam, when he
01:06:57
said we are to never build nukes. So
01:06:59
when they Hamas has something in their
01:07:01
charter, the Israelis say oh the charter
01:07:02
is the most important thing. Then the
01:07:04
grand ayatollah does a f way import more
01:07:06
important than a charter and they go
01:07:08
ignore that. Ignore that. No, no, don't
01:07:10
ignore that. And why would Iran ever use
01:07:12
a nuke? If they use a nuke then we
01:07:14
either Israel or us would strike back
01:07:16
and would kill 90 million Iranians.
01:07:18
Nobody wants that. They they want you to
01:07:20
believe that the Iranians are irrational
01:07:22
psychotic terrorists. Boo. They're
01:07:25
Muslims. Oh, that's super scary, right?
01:07:27
No, there is an irrational government in
01:07:29
the Middle East. It's it's Israel.
01:07:32
They're the Iran did not attack a single
01:07:34
neighbor. Israel has attacked seven
01:07:36
neighbors. Iran hasn't asked us for a
01:07:38
single dollar. Israel asked us for
01:07:40
hundreds of billions of dollars. So
01:07:43
there's one country that is constantly
01:07:45
attacking their neighbors and taking
01:07:47
land. And by the way, the ter the
01:07:49
civilian kill ratio of the IDF is 83%.
01:07:53
83% of the people that they kill are
01:07:54
civilians. That is higher than Hamas or
01:07:57
Hezblah or any terrorist group on earth.
01:08:00
and they kill about a hundred times the
01:08:02
civilians of Hamas. So if Hamas is
01:08:05
terrorist, it is absolutely indisputable
01:08:08
that Israel is a terrorist government.
01:08:10
And yet we're forced to fund that when
01:08:12
we don't have any money. They have
01:08:14
universal healthcare. They have free
01:08:15
college. They have paid family leave. We
01:08:17
don't have any of that. And then our
01:08:20
greedy and corrupt politicians and media
01:08:22
tell us that we owe the Israelis more
01:08:24
war and more genocide. The reason why I
01:08:27
think we're in a lot of trouble here and
01:08:28
it's not going to be easy to resolve is
01:08:30
every time we get close to peace.
01:08:32
Netanyahu calls Trump literally happened
01:08:34
this weekend. Right after the call,
01:08:36
Trump then goes back to wararm
01:08:38
mongering. After the call, we bombed
01:08:41
Iran. Israel started heavy bombing of
01:08:43
Lebanon. And then Trump came up with
01:08:46
three new totally impossible things.
01:08:48
Give me all the highly arrange enriched
01:08:50
uranium on day one. Well, it's buried
01:08:52
under the ground. It's going to take
01:08:53
months to take out. Uh, number two, uh,
01:08:56
you all have to join the Abraham
01:08:57
Accords. The Abraham Accords, again,
01:08:59
American media paints it as, oh, this
01:09:01
wonderful peace plan. It's no such
01:09:03
thing. It's to normalize relations with
01:09:05
Israel and start doing trade with Israel
01:09:07
without getting a promise back that
01:09:09
they're going to end the occupation. It
01:09:11
is betraying the Palestinians and saying
01:09:13
the Israelis can permanently occupy
01:09:14
them. By the way, again, never talked
01:09:17
about in American media, but I we read a
01:09:19
lot of this in the Israeli press and
01:09:21
that's why we get a lot of our
01:09:22
information on the Young Turks from them
01:09:24
because they actually do pretty good
01:09:25
reporting in Israel. And so, uh, one of
01:09:27
the things is they believe in Greater
01:09:29
Israel. They talk about it all the time.
01:09:31
Our press never talks about it, but they
01:09:32
do. They know they stole our nuclear
01:09:34
secrets. They know they stole our
01:09:36
nuclear triggers and our uranium. What
01:09:38
kind of an ally steals all of our
01:09:40
material? And and so but last thing,
01:09:43
Stephen, the most important impossible
01:09:45
thing was Netanyahu demanded, he made
01:09:47
this public, that everyone else stop
01:09:50
fighting except Israel, that they have a
01:09:52
right to keep attacking and invading and
01:09:54
taking southern Lebanon. Well, that's
01:09:56
not a peace deal. Nobody's going to sign
01:09:59
on to that. So, and and Israel has said
01:10:02
no matter what happens, they're going to
01:10:04
keep attacking Lebanon. That means even
01:10:06
if Iran and America make a peace deal,
01:10:08
Israel will literally ruin it on a first
01:10:11
day. So we can't ever get to peace as
01:10:14
long as we're allies with Israel. It's
01:10:16
literally impossible. They're massive
01:10:18
wararm mongers. And they say we need
01:10:20
endless wars. And by the way, it makes
01:10:22
sense because they're a settler colony.
01:10:24
In order for a settle settler colony to
01:10:26
expand, you need permanent war so they
01:10:30
can keep taking more land. We shouldn't
01:10:32
be funding these terrorists. We have a
01:10:34
way of getting out. This is what you do.
01:10:36
You just say, "Hey, we make a peace deal
01:10:38
with Iran. We take Israel out of it.
01:10:40
Israel, you want peace, you have peace.
01:10:41
If you want war, have war with Iran.
01:10:43
It's not our business."
01:10:44
>> So, what's what what are you predicting,
01:10:46
Jenk, is going to happen? What is your
01:10:48
prediction?
01:10:48
>> Disaster. A positive disaster. So,
01:10:52
there's no way we're going to get to
01:10:53
peace because Israel says their line in
01:10:54
the sand is they're going to keep
01:10:56
attacking Lebanon. As long as they keep
01:10:58
attacking Lebanon, Iran is not going to
01:11:00
get to a peace deal.
01:11:01
>> What does disaster mean specifically?
01:11:03
Oh, disaster means we re-engage in the
01:11:06
bombing. We have 50,000 ground troops on
01:11:08
those ships. People forgot that we're
01:11:09
there. Of course, it has to be American
01:11:11
ground troops. It can't be precious
01:11:13
Israeli ground troops because Israeli
01:11:15
lives are apparently worth more than
01:11:16
American lives if you listen to American
01:11:18
politicians. So, we have the ground
01:11:20
troops there. We're going to very likely
01:11:22
do more disastrous bombing of Iran. And
01:11:25
then Iran is going to bomb the oil and
01:11:27
gas fields in of the Gulf countries. And
01:11:29
then not only will gas prices go
01:11:32
absolutely through the roof and cause a
01:11:34
massive economic recession, perhaps
01:11:36
depression worldwide, but on top of
01:11:39
that, then uh they're going to say,
01:11:42
"Well, it's not enough. We want more."
01:11:45
And the infrastructure is already
01:11:47
destroyed. It's going to take 5 to 10
01:11:49
years to rebuild that infrastructure.
01:11:51
They're going to do permanent damage to
01:11:53
our economy. Why? They want more land.
01:11:56
Enough. enough with supporting the
01:11:59
terrorists.
01:11:59
>> Kevin, is it fair to say if you look at
01:12:02
what Trump said over since the start of
01:12:03
this war that he miscalculated this
01:12:06
because he gave us a window of time when
01:12:07
it would be over and that window of time
01:12:09
is now long gone. And it appears to me
01:12:11
like he thought it would be similar to
01:12:13
Venezuela where you could just go in
01:12:14
there, boom, boom, boom, regime change,
01:12:17
you control the country. But that's
01:12:19
clearly, I mean, just like a logical
01:12:20
impartial person, that's kind of like
01:12:21
how it looks.
01:12:23
This is different because this war is
01:12:26
what I would call the first tech war um
01:12:30
ever. A lot of the ordinance being used
01:12:33
um is with very advanced GPS systems
01:12:36
controlled from space. We've learned
01:12:38
something else uh which is rather
01:12:41
interesting. The I learned this from my
01:12:43
own employees that are sitting in Abu
01:12:44
Dhabi and Dubai. The drones that came
01:12:47
over in the first four weeks, those
01:12:50
waves every morning were basically
01:12:52
carbon fiber wings with lawnmower
01:12:56
engines on them and and very inexpensive
01:13:00
to make about $35,000. and we shot them
01:13:03
down or at least the UAE did with
01:13:05
American ordinance between a million2
01:13:08
and $3 million per missile on a $35,000
01:13:14
homemade drone. And so it goes back to
01:13:19
um wow I hope the Pentagon has enough
01:13:21
compute power because I wouldn't want
01:13:24
that in the hands of the Chinese cuz I I
01:13:27
what I've learned from this conflict and
01:13:29
look that you know people dying is
01:13:32
horrible period wherever they are it's
01:13:35
just horrible but this is not a
01:13:37
traditional war. I don't know if there's
01:13:39
going to be boots on the ground by the
01:13:41
time this is over. If there's another
01:13:42
wave of conflict, it's just going to be
01:13:45
more ordinance taking out more
01:13:46
infrastructure until the 150,000 people
01:13:50
running the show there say, "Wow,
01:13:53
this is really hurting us in terms of
01:13:56
maintaining control." I don't see uh a
01:13:59
boots on the ground invasion. I just see
01:14:01
more tenderizing and more tenderizing.
01:14:04
It's expensive because we're on the
01:14:05
wrong side of defense. We need the cheap
01:14:08
drones. And I think in two years from
01:14:10
now, from what I see in the development,
01:14:12
because I I see these deals all over the
01:14:14
place, there's a whole bunch of new tech
01:14:17
being developed around drone blocking
01:14:19
technology and very inexpensive versions
01:14:22
of what those Iranians built, better
01:14:24
than lawnmower engines, though. So, it's
01:14:27
it's going to be pretty interesting in
01:14:30
24 months. I'm not a fan of war, but I
01:14:34
have a different view of the outcome
01:14:35
here. And I think that part of the
01:14:37
world's going to be stabilized and
01:14:39
funded by the neighbors there, and
01:14:42
probably everybody's better off because
01:14:44
the Chinese can't take the pain much
01:14:46
longer. Their oil supplies, both on the
01:14:49
water and in storage, are starting to
01:14:53
really dwindle. And if I'm the big
01:14:55
supreme leader there, I'm thinking to
01:14:57
myself, I'm going to call those guys in
01:15:00
Iran, say, "Okay, big boys, time to
01:15:02
settle. We've had enough." Cuz that that
01:15:05
is actually
01:15:07
a different view of that policy over
01:15:09
there. Because every Asian country is
01:15:11
hurting. And by the way, in North
01:15:13
America,
01:15:14
we actually don't have any problems with
01:15:17
energy. We have an abundance of it,
01:15:19
including the stuff coming from Canada,
01:15:21
the number one import. The problem we
01:15:24
have is the price of oil is determined
01:15:26
by world markets. It's a commodity in US
01:15:29
dollars. You know, it was 106. Now it's
01:15:32
9712, whatever it is trading right now.
01:15:35
Um
01:15:37
it's but we're not going to run out of
01:15:39
energy in America. That's not going to
01:15:41
happen. It's it's the rest of the world
01:15:43
to the extent that we care about them.
01:15:45
Um we got to resolve this issue. For
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01:18:05
The thing that I think America's at risk
01:18:07
of running out of Kevin though is is is
01:18:09
patience and uh support. And if you
01:18:13
think about the sort of existential risk
01:18:14
to Trump, he you know, if you looking at
01:18:17
these numbers, so this this first line
01:18:18
you see is his disapproval going up and
01:18:20
his approval going down. If I'm the
01:18:22
supreme leader in Iran, I go listen,
01:18:25
this guy has got I mean there's an
01:18:27
election in 2028 in the United States,
01:18:30
this guy has got months. So in terms of
01:18:33
you talk about, you know, the art of a
01:18:34
deal and doing a good deal. If you know
01:18:36
your counterparty in the deal
01:18:37
negotiation literally has months to do a
01:18:40
deal or they are going to be thrown out
01:18:42
of power, if I'm one of those 150,000
01:18:45
people or the supreme leader, honestly,
01:18:46
I'm going to wait it out. I think I have
01:18:48
all the cards. if you have almost no,
01:18:51
you know, they can survive. Again, you
01:18:52
said they oppress their people. They
01:18:54
don't seem to have much morality
01:18:55
surrounding that. Could they wait it out
01:18:57
a couple of months knowing that Trump
01:18:59
can't because the midterms are coming
01:19:01
and then the election's coming. I
01:19:03
>> think you're making a good point on that
01:19:05
one. But I, you know, the one thing I
01:19:06
would say, Stephen, is that it's not
01:19:09
just Trump you're waiting out. You got
01:19:11
Chi, it's it's not just Trump, the big
01:19:15
guy. You got two supreme leaders. You
01:19:17
got whoever is running the show this
01:19:19
week in Iran
01:19:22
and you've got the Chinese leader, the
01:19:25
supreme leader. And the only way he gets
01:19:27
to say the supreme leader is people eat,
01:19:30
people have jobs there and his economy
01:19:33
stays buoyant. That's the only way he
01:19:36
stays in power. So
01:19:39
you're you're serving two masters.
01:19:41
You're you're trying to time the 28
01:19:44
decision you talked about versus how
01:19:46
pissed off the big guy is going to get
01:19:47
in China. He has no choice. 48% of his
01:19:51
energy comes through that straight at
01:19:54
some point. I think before November,
01:19:58
Elsa primo in China squeezes Iranian
01:20:01
heads like teenage pimples. That's what
01:20:03
I think is going to happen. The other
01:20:04
thing just to give you the other thought
01:20:06
that's been spiraling in my head since
01:20:08
I've interviewed all these people on
01:20:09
this subject is that Trump and JD Vance
01:20:11
repeatedly say they don't even know who
01:20:12
they're negotiating with because they've
01:20:14
knocked out every layer it seems of
01:20:16
leadership. They on one hand brag about
01:20:17
that but then I would also suggest that
01:20:20
that makes negotiation hard. I think JD
01:20:23
Vance actually talked about or Marco
01:20:25
Rubio talked about the fact that they
01:20:26
can't get the carrier pigeon to the um
01:20:30
Iranian soldiers that are still shooting
01:20:31
the missiles. And this talk this speaks
01:20:34
to the um lack of organization in Iran
01:20:36
because you've wiped out all the
01:20:37
leadership. So I even wonder if you can
01:20:39
really do a deal at this point with
01:20:41
Iran, Jenk.
01:20:43
>> No, we can remember we almost had a deal
01:20:45
this weekend. Uh and the deal is
01:20:47
actually kind of obvious. Open up the
01:20:48
straight of Hormuz. We lift a blockade.
01:20:51
Iran says uh we'll find the
01:20:53
highlyenriched uranium and hand it over.
01:20:55
We won't have a weapons program and
01:20:57
we'll have international monitors for
01:20:59
the uranium that we enrich to just
01:21:02
energy levels, not weapons levels. Boom.
01:21:04
Done. Easy. Though, but as I explained
01:21:07
before, we can't get it done because
01:21:09
Israel says, "No, I want permanent."
01:21:10
>> How do you know it's Israel? How do you
01:21:12
know it's Israel, Jenk?
01:21:14
>> Yeah, there's no question. So first of
01:21:15
all in the before the invasion New York
01:21:18
Times with a rare good article that
01:21:20
explained uh that Netanyahu and the head
01:21:22
of MSAD came into the situation room
01:21:25
Netanyahu physically and head of Mossad
01:21:27
uh through a teleconference and they uh
01:21:30
told Trump you got to attack you got to
01:21:32
attack now and they to they at least as
01:21:35
the New York Times describes it they
01:21:37
convinced them. Whether they actually
01:21:38
convinced him through language or
01:21:40
through money or through blackmail is a
01:21:43
whole different question. But uh another
01:21:45
thing that's absolutely clear is that
01:21:46
after every call with Netanyahu, Trump
01:21:49
goes from saying we're going to have
01:21:50
peace to saying we're not going to have
01:21:52
peace and we're have these new
01:21:53
impossible standards. It's happened
01:21:55
about half a dozen times so far. It's
01:21:57
super clear that Israel is driving the
01:21:59
bus. Plus, you could see it based on the
01:22:01
facts on the ground. We have no interest
01:22:03
there. We have a deal ready to make for
01:22:05
American interests. Israel says, "No,
01:22:07
we're not done because we need southern
01:22:09
Lebanon and we need Iran to be
01:22:12
completely decimated." This idea that
01:22:14
Kevin's talking about, to be fair to
01:22:15
Kevin, almost everybody in in America
01:22:17
thinks in this, well, now to be unfair
01:22:19
to Kevin, this fantasy world where the
01:22:22
regime in Iran is just going to give up.
01:22:24
It's never going to happen. We already
01:22:26
tried to regime change it. It it didn't
01:22:29
work at all. They have an enormous
01:22:31
infrastructure set up so it doesn't
01:22:34
really matter how many people you knock
01:22:35
off at the top, somebody else rises up,
01:22:37
somebody else rises up out of that
01:22:39
150,000 people that that Kevin's talking
01:22:41
about. Now, China, he's got a theory
01:22:44
that maybe China puts pressure on him.
01:22:45
That's not a crazy theory. I get it. At
01:22:47
the same time, China's looking at Russia
01:22:49
and America and going, "Look at these
01:22:50
schmucks. Russia is wasting their entire
01:22:53
military and resources in Ukraine. And
01:22:55
now America's totally wasting their
01:22:57
military and resources in Iran. And
01:23:00
these two other knuckleheads keep
01:23:02
punching themselves in the face.
01:23:04
Meanwhile, we haven't started any wars
01:23:06
if you're China. And so we haven't had
01:23:08
any of those costs. We haven't had any
01:23:09
of those troubles. We don't have that PR
01:23:11
problem. So when we go into Africa or
01:23:13
Latin America and we say, "Hey, you know
01:23:14
what? We're going to build roads and
01:23:15
bridges for you guys and America's going
01:23:17
to come and bomb you. So which one do
01:23:19
you want to do a deal with?" Now a lot
01:23:21
of them are saying, "No, we want to do a
01:23:23
deal with China." because they don't do
01:23:25
war. Uh instead they build
01:23:26
infrastructure. Look, it just is a
01:23:28
business strategy, an economic strategy
01:23:30
that is much much smarter. But we can't
01:23:33
go into a smart strategy because Israel
01:23:34
won't let us. Every time we go towards
01:23:37
peace, Israel blocks it. And today, this
01:23:40
weekend, we had both Republicans and
01:23:43
Democrats go out and say we shouldn't do
01:23:45
the peace deal. You want to know what
01:23:46
the one connective tissue? Every one of
01:23:49
those politicians had over a million
01:23:51
dollars given to them by the Israeli
01:23:53
lobby. So that's just the stone cold
01:23:55
reality of it. And so in terms of energy
01:23:58
here at home, Kevin says we're not going
01:24:00
to run out. But he also acknowledged
01:24:01
that no, wait a minute, that has nothing
01:24:03
to do with anything. We oil goes into a
01:24:06
world market and it is controlled by
01:24:08
world prices. So the fact that we are
01:24:10
so-called energy independent means
01:24:12
nothing. That's not even our oil or gas.
01:24:15
It's Exon Mobile and Chevrons. So they
01:24:17
could sell it anywhere they want and
01:24:19
they do sell it anywhere they want. The
01:24:20
only way to get them to sell it
01:24:22
exclusively in America is to do
01:24:24
socialism and say you're not allowed to
01:24:26
sell that oil anywhere else. I don't
01:24:28
think Kevin wants that. So that means we
01:24:31
are definitely not energyindependent. We
01:24:34
are definitely tied to global oil prices
01:24:36
and that means again more disaster. When
01:24:39
you get to tech, oh my god, the Israelis
01:24:42
used AI in Gaza. They did this uh
01:24:44
program called Where's Daddy. AI would
01:24:47
pick a target uh that was maybe
01:24:51
connected to someone in Hamas at some
01:24:52
point, but they did, you know, he called
01:24:55
this guy and the other guy called other
01:24:56
guy and that lady now has a cell phone.
01:24:58
Good enough. But they would wait till
01:25:00
their target went home so they would
01:25:03
bomb the house and kill their entire
01:25:05
family. If that's the future of tech in
01:25:08
the military, we're all doomed. So,
01:25:10
they've been testing all of this stuff
01:25:12
in Gaza and now they're doing in Iran.
01:25:15
What I'm worried about is what Larry
01:25:16
Ellison said. He said, "Oh, we now can
01:25:19
track all citizens anywhere and we're
01:25:22
going to bring that technology to
01:25:23
America." I don't want their
01:25:25
surveillance state. I don't want
01:25:26
anything to do with the Israelis. Let's
01:25:28
just come home and serve American
01:25:31
interest. That's what I keep. That's But
01:25:33
the good news, Stephen, is almost all
01:25:35
the voters agree. 80% of Democrats now
01:25:37
have a negative view of Israel and say,
01:25:38
"No, take care of American voters first.
01:25:41
When you get to under 50 years old in
01:25:44
all parties, Israel now has a negative
01:25:46
45 rating." The only people left in this
01:25:49
country who still want to serve Israel
01:25:51
are our politicians and our media.
01:25:53
That's it. The rest of us can't stand
01:25:55
them anymore and the endless wars they
01:25:57
drag us into and all the money they take
01:25:59
from us. And Kevin, as a businessman,
01:26:02
what are we doing? Why are we letting
01:26:04
this country the size of their
01:26:06
population is the equivalent of Papa New
01:26:08
Guinea lead us around by the nose and
01:26:10
get us into endless wars? You know, this
01:26:11
war in Iran isn't helping us. And and if
01:26:14
they continue and they bomb the
01:26:15
infrastructure in Iran and the Gulf
01:26:17
countries, you know, it's going to take
01:26:18
5 to 10 years to rebuild and it is going
01:26:20
to be a global economic disaster. What
01:26:24
are we doing? We got to get rid of the
01:26:25
Israelis. I don't mean that in a
01:26:27
physical way. Just get them out of our
01:26:29
government and make decisions based on
01:26:31
what's good for America. will be 10,000
01:26:34
times better off and then we could end
01:26:36
the war.
01:26:37
>> I think if there was a path to peace in
01:26:39
the Middle East, it's one of the largest
01:26:41
consumer markets on earth. Just Iran
01:26:44
itself has 100 million people. They buy
01:26:47
stuff. And you know, I think about the
01:26:50
future of a global economy. If there was
01:26:53
stability there, uh including peace with
01:26:55
Israel and their neighbors, that would
01:26:58
be an amazing market, a huge market. And
01:27:01
one of the reasons that people like me
01:27:03
keep a foothold or a footprint in the
01:27:06
UAE, it is and was the capital of
01:27:09
capital until nine weeks ago. And I
01:27:12
think it'll return at some point. That's
01:27:15
a the size of the market in Egypt,
01:27:19
Jordan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, I mean, and
01:27:24
Iran are they're just huge. And those
01:27:27
people want stuff that we make. I mean,
01:27:30
you know, it's that pragmatic. It's that
01:27:32
So, if you could have peace and
01:27:35
stabilize and you want to sell stuff,
01:27:38
that's a massive market. And and I, you
01:27:40
know, that's why I remain an optimist on
01:27:43
how this gets resolved because at the
01:27:45
end of the day, it doesn't matter what
01:27:46
religion you are or, you know, what
01:27:49
country you're in or what geography you
01:27:51
came from. Most people, and I would say
01:27:54
99% want to raise a family, have a job,
01:27:57
and enjoy life. they don't want to get
01:27:59
blown up. And so I'm I'm kind of an
01:28:01
optimist that it's in everybody's
01:28:05
interest to solve this. It's kind of
01:28:06
like the the human condition is I'd like
01:28:10
to get, you know, I'd like to form a
01:28:12
family unit and I'd like to live a
01:28:13
peaceful life and I'd like to buy stuff.
01:28:15
I want to be a consumer. So I'm uh in
01:28:18
the camp that says, look, I don't know
01:28:19
how this thing gets resolved. Nobody
01:28:21
does. I'm disappointed that there's no
01:28:24
peace deal this weekend, but hopefully
01:28:27
there'll be one soon. But in the end,
01:28:29
most people want peace, period. Unless
01:28:32
you're, you know, you're crazed as a
01:28:35
crazed leader and you just want to kill
01:28:37
everybody. Those people don't last that
01:28:40
long. They don't seem to, well, they're
01:28:42
certainly not lasting that long in Iran
01:28:44
right now, but you're right. They keep
01:28:45
popping up. But at some point, I don't
01:28:48
know. I think uh peace is a better deal
01:28:50
for everybody. There should be a button
01:28:52
just down below here. And if it says
01:28:54
subscribed, you're already subscribed.
01:28:56
If it says subscriber, that means you're
01:28:58
not yet. And if you're not subscribed,
01:29:00
please could you do us a favor and hit
01:29:01
that button? It helps the show more than
01:29:02
you know. And according to the
01:29:04
algorithm, you're someone that watches
01:29:05
our show, but you haven't yet hit that
01:29:07
button. Thank you so much, Kevin. Um,
01:29:09
based on that, based on both our
01:29:11
conversation on AI and also how
01:29:13
unpopular this war is, what we're seeing
01:29:16
across the world at the moment is this
01:29:17
rise in socialism in Western markets.
01:29:20
We're seeing it in the UK. We're seeing
01:29:21
it around Europe. And we're also seeing
01:29:22
it in the United States. Positive views
01:29:24
of capitalism amongst all Americans has
01:29:27
dropped to an all-time low according to
01:29:30
a poll done by Gallup. Um, a massive
01:29:32
almost 70% of Democrats now view
01:29:34
socialism positively with only 40%
01:29:36
roughly view capitalism favorably. And
01:29:39
again, this was at the end of last year,
01:29:41
so these stats aren't even factoring in
01:29:43
the war. And a staggering 62% of young
01:29:46
Americans hold a favorable view of
01:29:48
socialism as well. So, as we head
01:29:49
towards the midterms, but also the
01:29:51
elections, which I'm not actually that
01:29:52
far away now. It's quite clear to me, as
01:29:54
someone that, you know, I I'm an
01:29:56
entrepreneur in the United States. I I
01:29:57
live in Los Angeles, as you know. Um I
01:29:59
build businesses. It's quite clear to me
01:30:01
that we're on the verge of a very
01:30:03
different type of America. And we've
01:30:04
seen, you know, um Zhan Mandani be
01:30:07
elected in New York, and we're seeing
01:30:08
this sort of socialistic nar narrative
01:30:10
spread like wildfire. I think heavily
01:30:12
fueled by both wars, but also by
01:30:14
technology, AI, and sort of wealth
01:30:16
inequality. Do you agree that if things
01:30:19
continue on this trajectory, we're
01:30:21
heading towards a more socialist
01:30:23
America?
01:30:25
>> No. What I agree on is I'm I'm a history
01:30:28
buff. Um you can go back into the uh 40s
01:30:31
and 50s. It seems every 17 to 20 years
01:30:35
we take um a dip back into socialism and
01:30:38
back in those days communism even in New
01:30:41
York in Brooklyn longing for what the
01:30:44
Soviet Union had or Cuba had in its
01:30:48
heyday. Um and then the outcome is
01:30:52
always the same. It doesn't work. And so
01:30:56
it it really you have all these
01:30:58
different ideas about how a country
01:30:59
should run and what works best for all
01:31:02
the faults that US has now and the
01:31:05
debates we have and you know AOC and
01:31:08
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and
01:31:11
all this rhetoric and I get it. I mean
01:31:13
they're they're very successful
01:31:14
politicians. I love AOC. She just spews
01:31:18
out stuff and raises five bucks at a
01:31:20
time. You know it's smart. It's a great
01:31:23
social media strategy. And same with
01:31:24
Bernie. I mean, the guy But will she be
01:31:27
president of the United States? I don't
01:31:29
think so. And will Bernie get there? No.
01:31:32
Why does everybody leave Massachusetts,
01:31:34
including my son, because you can't
01:31:36
raise any money there to start a
01:31:38
company? The super tax is stupid. And
01:31:41
so, it it's sort of it's it's a it's a
01:31:44
it's a mixing pot of ideas and
01:31:46
competition. But in the end, and I
01:31:50
always say this to my students because I
01:31:51
I what I find so interesting about, you
01:31:54
know, a 20 a cohort of 23 year olds that
01:31:56
I teach in in business classes and
01:31:59
injury classes, they're all socialists,
01:32:01
all of them, until they get their first
01:32:04
paycheck. Then they become capitalists
01:32:07
when they see something called tax. And
01:32:10
they wonder, "Wait a second, wait a
01:32:12
second. Where'd half my salary go?
01:32:14
What's this?" And I say, "That's tax."
01:32:17
Now, if you want it to be 80% tax, you
01:32:20
follow that trail that you had before I
01:32:23
started teaching you, you were a
01:32:25
socialist. And now, what are you? Well,
01:32:28
I can't pay 50% tax. No kidding. Well,
01:32:31
move to Austin, move to Tennessee, you
01:32:33
move to Florida like everybody else is
01:32:35
doing, and you'll pay 16%. And so I love
01:32:39
the fact that everybody's an idealist
01:32:41
socialist
01:32:43
until they get their first paycheck. And
01:32:45
that's how America works. It's a
01:32:48
wonderful thing. And I say it's good
01:32:50
because you all everybody has a vote. We
01:32:53
continue to believe in that. And I think
01:32:56
the debate rages on and it's great. And
01:32:59
everybody has an opinion. I have mine,
01:33:01
others have theirs. And I love to be
01:33:03
part of this course. You know, one of
01:33:04
the reasons I keep doing what I do is I
01:33:06
love to get into the with
01:33:08
everybody. I like to say the things I
01:33:10
say cuz I really believe them and I've
01:33:13
been there before. I'm wise. I've seen
01:33:17
this movie before. That's what I tell my
01:33:19
students and it freaks them out.
01:33:21
>> Just a yes or no answer in this
01:33:23
question. So in 2028, do you think
01:33:25
another capitalistic sort of focused
01:33:27
candidate will win the election
01:33:29
>> or do you think a Democrat or a
01:33:30
socialist will? I don't think
01:33:32
socialism's going to is socialism going
01:33:34
to make it in America at the uh in the
01:33:36
office of the White House. I think the
01:33:38
pendulum always swings. The Biden
01:33:41
administration went way too far in one
01:33:43
direction. It snapped back. Now you
01:33:46
might argue it went too far the other
01:33:47
way and it snaps back. The whole idea of
01:33:50
midterm gives you the smell test of the
01:33:52
direction which is coming up just months
01:33:54
away and then you'll see who emerges. I
01:33:57
don't think we know who the next
01:34:00
president of the United States is going
01:34:02
to be, him or her. We don't know who's
01:34:05
going to emerge.
01:34:05
>> What's your sense though, Kevin? You're
01:34:07
you're a predict you're a man that makes
01:34:08
predictions. Is it Democrat or is it
01:34:10
Republican in your view? Got to give me
01:34:11
a straight answer here.
01:34:12
>> I I I wouldn't even make that guess.
01:34:14
It's It's so difficult. I really don't
01:34:16
know. I I I really think that in my
01:34:19
view, the Democrats have lost their way.
01:34:22
I would like to see them find a new
01:34:24
leader that's more moderate.
01:34:26
I don't think you can spew socialism and
01:34:29
get elected. You got to find somebody
01:34:31
that is in the middle that is more
01:34:34
pragmatic about providing jobs. I mean,
01:34:36
look at California. What a mess that
01:34:38
place is. It's just they may actually
01:34:42
they may hire a Republican mayor out
01:34:44
there. I mean, that's going to be a
01:34:46
shakaroo for LA. But it's gotten pretty
01:34:49
bad. I work out there. It's a you can't
01:34:52
even wear your watch at daytime anymore.
01:34:54
I mean, it That's true.
01:34:56
>> It's a mess. It's a mess. It's a a
01:34:59
lawless wasteland. It has poor
01:35:01
management, no executional skills with
01:35:03
the politicians. I mean, you know,
01:35:05
you're lucky to be You work there. You
01:35:07
know what I'm talking about.
01:35:08
>> Jenk, what's your point of view on that
01:35:09
socialism? Is it coming to America
01:35:11
midterms 2028?
01:35:13
It's a lot to talk about there. So,
01:35:15
look, I I'm not a fan of Karen Bass. I
01:35:17
voted against her before. I probably
01:35:18
vote against her again in this mayor's
01:35:20
race. Uh, and so I think that sometimes
01:35:23
Democrats, uh, like to get mired in
01:35:25
their bureaucracy and not push for
01:35:27
enough change. So, uh, so I'm not a
01:35:30
person who just, uh, supports Democrats
01:35:32
no matter what. In fact, I criticize
01:35:34
Democrats a lot on the Young Turks. Uh,
01:35:36
but no, you're not going to get your
01:35:38
watch stolen in LA. Uh, I have a family.
01:35:41
We go out all the time. It's perfectly
01:35:42
safe. Uh, so for a little while between
01:35:45
2019 and 2023, crime really did rise in
01:35:47
some of the big cities. We talked about
01:35:49
on the air. were very honest about it.
01:35:51
It took some heat from the left on it,
01:35:53
but crime's gone down significantly in
01:35:54
24 and 25. So, I don't think those are
01:35:56
real issues anymore. In terms of uh our
01:35:59
economic model, we need a couple of
01:36:01
clarifications here. So, as I said
01:36:03
earlier, we we really do corporatism in
01:36:05
America. And another word for that or
01:36:07
phrase for it is crony capitalism. So,
01:36:09
we'd be lucky to get back to capitalism,
01:36:12
let alone going all the way to socialism
01:36:14
because right now we don't have
01:36:15
capitalism. We don't have free markets.
01:36:17
We have uh every industry has captured
01:36:20
the government. They've bribed all of
01:36:21
our politicians. We can't negotiate
01:36:24
prices. Uh these are the I mean that is
01:36:26
the most socialist thing I've ever heard
01:36:28
except socialism for corporations. It's
01:36:30
mindbending. And that's and that's what
01:36:32
corporism is. It's totally run a muck
01:36:34
now. And why is that? Because of money
01:36:36
and politics. So in order to fix all of
01:36:38
these problems and to get back to real
01:36:40
free markets and capitalism, you have
01:36:43
got to get the money out of politics. If
01:36:45
you don't do that, you're just on a
01:36:47
treadmill of corruption and it never
01:36:49
ends. And you get BS guys like Biden and
01:36:52
Trump who come in and tell you that
01:36:53
they're going to drain the swamp and
01:36:55
then they fill it up even more and even
01:36:56
more. So they and they serve all their
01:36:58
donors. So in terms of socialism, we
01:37:01
never define what it means. The reality
01:37:03
is most governments are mixed economies.
01:37:06
Not most governments, almost all
01:37:07
governments are mixed economies. So when
01:37:10
we say socialism, are we talking about
01:37:12
Cuba or are we talking about the
01:37:14
Netherlands? Because you could argue
01:37:16
that Northern Europe does socialism. Uh
01:37:18
they have a lot more things that are
01:37:20
public rather than private. But do they
01:37:22
have private businesses? Of course they
01:37:24
do. Right? So I would argue that
01:37:26
democratic capitalism is the right way
01:37:27
to go where we have capitalism, but it
01:37:29
is checked by democracy. the CEOs and
01:37:32
the shareholders look out for the
01:37:34
companies and the legislators and the
01:37:36
president and the prime ministers are
01:37:37
supposed to look out for the citizens
01:37:39
and check the corporations so they don't
01:37:41
run a muck. I think Northern Europe's
01:37:43
probably pretty close to that. In terms
01:37:44
of candidates here in America,
01:37:47
again, I'd have to say Roana is probably
01:37:49
the closest one to that. And so if you
01:37:51
go too far left, um I get it that that's
01:37:55
hard, especially on identity politics,
01:37:57
which again we're not a fan of on the
01:37:59
Young Turks and we don't think that's
01:38:01
the right direction to go and it just
01:38:03
divides our country. Uh so I don't think
01:38:05
that that type of far-left candidate can
01:38:07
can win a national election. But after
01:38:09
what Trump does this to this country,
01:38:12
what he's already done to this country,
01:38:13
Republicans, I have one thing to tell
01:38:15
you. N
01:38:19
there's no way. The the midterms are
01:38:22
gone. Nobody's showing up to vote. Their
01:38:24
voter enthusiasm is gone, obliterated.
01:38:28
And by 2028, we're going to have the
01:38:30
disaster from the war and disaster from
01:38:33
AI, unemployment. So they they only have
01:38:36
one guy who could win, and I'm worried
01:38:38
about it, and that's Tucker Carlson. If
01:38:41
Tucker runs in the Republican primary,
01:38:43
he definitely wins that primary. You can
01:38:45
quote me on it. And then you could have
01:38:46
Kevin laughing and you could rerun that
01:38:48
tape. It'll be great. In fact, back in
01:38:50
2016, I was on ABC's This Week with
01:38:53
Stephanopoulos. They asked the whole
01:38:55
panel who's going to win. At that point,
01:38:56
they just won the Democratic National
01:38:58
Convention and Hillary Clinton had a
01:38:59
10-point lead. I was the only one on the
01:39:01
panel to say Donald Trump was going to
01:39:02
win. And they all laughed out loud.
01:39:05
Populists win. The people chasing after
01:39:08
the donors, whether it's Israel or Big
01:39:10
Farmer or any of the other donors, then
01:39:12
nobody nobody likes those people. Kla
01:39:15
Harris lost because she was bragging
01:39:17
about how she had 90 corporate CEOs on
01:39:20
her side. I got bad news for her. Nobody
01:39:21
likes corporate CEOs. Sorry Kevin. Sorry
01:39:24
me. But the reality is that's what every
01:39:28
poll shows. It is deeply deeply
01:39:30
unpopular and these days it's pretty
01:39:32
merited. So if if you've got someone in
01:39:34
the right lane, which is Democratic
01:39:36
capitalism, I think they win.
01:39:38
>> We just got two minutes left. Kevin, uh
01:39:40
you laughed there at the suggestion that
01:39:41
Tucker Carlson might win.
01:39:44
I know Tucker. I just did a thing with
01:39:46
him this week. It was really interesting
01:39:48
because he's taken a a very um uh
01:39:52
controversial view about AI and that's
01:39:54
the debate we had. And he has obviously
01:39:56
shifted his focus uh from being proTrump
01:40:00
to something else. But you know, I have
01:40:01
to admit when I think about it, that is
01:40:04
a possibility if he would uh align
01:40:07
himself. I'm not sure what party he
01:40:10
represents anymore. I think he is a
01:40:12
selfproclaimed Republican, but um that's
01:40:17
interesting idea. The more I think about
01:40:18
it, I can't I can't I I know I laughed
01:40:20
at it, but I've been thinking about it
01:40:22
for the last couple of minutes. Yeah. I
01:40:24
mean, the guy has a massive base. Um he
01:40:27
has a his own network now, which is
01:40:29
something you kind of need these days
01:40:31
in. Uh you need a really strong social
01:40:33
media base to play um in politics and
01:40:37
and to and to fight the fights in the
01:40:39
seven states. you really got to have a
01:40:40
good organization on social. So, I mean,
01:40:43
I think it's going to be fascinating.
01:40:44
Um, I think we'll get a pretty good
01:40:46
indication of what the themes will be in
01:40:49
November. Uh, affordability obviously
01:40:52
remains a big one. Um, border remains a
01:40:56
big one in in the US, but AI could
01:40:59
emerge as as a big one too. I mean it
01:41:02
maybe but I I think by then um
01:41:06
I always look at these big you know AI
01:41:08
kind of burst on the theme but it's not
01:41:10
really about data centers and power it's
01:41:12
about jobs I think is where it's going
01:41:15
and I don't know if that gets resolved
01:41:17
by you can always be a fear mongerer
01:41:20
about the robots eating the babies and
01:41:22
maybe that is an election issue. I don't
01:41:24
know. We'll see. It's going to be
01:41:26
interesting though cuz it it wasn't an
01:41:28
issue until 6 months ago. Jen, last word
01:41:31
before we close out.
01:41:32
>> Yeah. So, look, I don't think that a
01:41:35
pro-Israel candidate can win. Uh, and
01:41:38
so, but all of our politicians are
01:41:40
trained to be pro-Israel. And
01:41:41
apparently, they have trouble reading
01:41:43
polls. So, uh, I think that that, you
01:41:46
know, a populist right versus populist
01:41:49
left would in a sense be a dream. Um,
01:41:52
because either way, you hope that they I
01:41:56
mean, the key has to be that they have
01:41:57
to be real. I mean, we're so tired of
01:41:59
these fake politicians in America. They
01:42:01
never do what they say they're going to
01:42:03
do. They always back the donors. But if
01:42:05
you got two honest guys, and by the way,
01:42:07
maybe it's Kana versus Massie, and that
01:42:09
would be amazing. Or maybe it's Kana and
01:42:11
Massie, but there's two guys who were
01:42:13
clearly honest in Congress, and you
01:42:16
know, I can name Bernie as my third. I'm
01:42:18
going to struggle on the fourth one. So,
01:42:21
there aren't that many choices. So, and
01:42:24
maybe we go populist, we go independent,
01:42:26
and we go in a new direction because God
01:42:28
knows that America needs a new
01:42:29
direction.
01:42:31
>> Kevin Jenk, thank you so much for the
01:42:33
time. Um, I've been a fan of both of you
01:42:35
for many, many, many years. I was saying
01:42:36
to Jenk before we started recording that
01:42:38
I think I've watched The Young Tuck
01:42:39
since I was 19. And when I say watched,
01:42:42
I mean really, really watched, not not
01:42:43
casually saw it, but I would watch it
01:42:45
almost daily when I was going through uh
01:42:47
building my businesses and sort of
01:42:48
coming into the professional world. So,
01:42:50
thank you so much, Jen. It's a pleasure
01:42:51
to have spent this time with you and
01:42:52
Kevin. Again, I've been, you know, my my
01:42:54
my favorite shark for I think 15 years
01:42:56
now. Um, for many, many, many reasons.
01:42:59
Thank you to both of you. Um, I really,
01:43:01
really appreciate it. And hopefully
01:43:02
we'll have this discussion again soon
01:43:03
once all of this plays out because the
01:43:05
answer to a lot of these questions has
01:43:07
been I don't know. And we shall see. So,
01:43:09
we shall see. Thank you.
01:43:12
>> Thank you.
01:43:13
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