00:00:00
If they're laughing, it's fine. If they're not, it ain't. This is the Russell Howard we have never seen
00:00:06
before. When you're low, it leaves you mentally fragile, but then that makes you work hard and go again because you
00:00:13
know the excitement you get from making them laugh. It's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill, there
00:00:18
is this incredible cherry. That's what happiness is. figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining to realize what you have.
00:00:30
There will always be sort of shimmering lights of hope in in the misery. But sometimes somebody has to help you find them. When he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you
00:00:42
just go, Jesus, one of the one of the one of the good souls isn't here anymore. Russell Howard. I've watched Russell Howard on TV for years and years and
00:01:05
years. And of all the podcasts I've done, Russell and this conversation was the most stark difference between the person I've seen on TV and the person I had a conversation with today. I think
00:01:17
your mind is going to be blown. He's got a new Netflix show coming out called Lubricant. And the reason it's called
00:01:23
Lubricant is because he believes comedy and laughter is the lubricant that allows us to deal with the pain of life. And we talk about the pain of his life. We talk about everything. And in this
00:01:35
conversation, there's more tears. Recently, I did an episode on this podcast with Jimmy Carr, and the
00:01:41
resounding feedback we got was, "We've never seen that Jimmy Carr before." I have a suspicion, in fact, I know that
00:01:48
people are going to say the same about this conversation. This is the Russell Howard we have never seen before. And
00:01:55
it's an incredibly inspiring, valuable, vulnerable Russell Howard. It's the side
00:02:02
as a Russell Howard fan that I wish I'd seen more of. I have a feeling you're going to be really surprised. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope
00:02:14
nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. I'm funny because of my mom and I'm determined because of my dad. You said that, right?
00:02:30
I did say that. Yeah. I felt like that was the beginning of a riddle. Like you were a sort of a Gollum figure trying to
00:02:36
understand. Yeah. Can you explain it to me, please? Um, my mom is a a warm, twinkly eyed little
00:02:45
lady who is inadvertently funny all the time, has no idea of her power, is just naturally uh bright and joyful. Uh, if you ever
00:02:58
feel that you're kind of getting used to hotels and the humrum life of, oh, here we are in another place, um, take my mom
00:03:06
with you. separate rooms and watch her reaction when she goes into a hotel room because it reminds you of how you used to be. Oh, really? Jesus Christ. They've got kettles. They've got tea bags. Look, they've got
00:03:19
a trouser press. Look, like she's so excited and happy by the world. And my dad is um a very quiet, unbelievably determined man who, you know, when we
00:03:34
were kids, we'd sort of he'd have us mixing cement. Um we'd be sort of like, you know, building kind of walls with him, plastering as a kid. I remember watching my dad plaster and he was
00:03:45
trying to keep this kind of wall up and he screamed to himself, "Come on, David." And sort of even at 11, I was
00:03:52
going, "Ah, that's a bit much." Um, so I have these kind of two very different uh
00:03:57
dominant personalities that kind of raised me who I love dearly both, but they are very very different. You know, my dad challenged me to a press up competition recently um at a family
00:04:10
barbecue and he beat me. He did um 68. He did. Yeah. And he's uh uh 65 years old and uh yeah, remember this story. This sums my dad up. U I had a school report when
00:04:24
I was 11 and the teacher said um what Russell needs to know is that he can't do everything. And I kind of go home and
00:04:32
you know that moment you give the report and your dad looks and he goes well this mean you go well the teacher says I I
00:04:37
can't do everything. He goes why did you say that? I I just think that I can I think I can do anything if I put my mind
00:04:42
to it. And my dad goes you got to go down that school now and tell her that. So I have to walk back to the school.
00:04:48
You're joking. Yeah. and I kind of go in and go, "My dad says I can do anything and you're not allowed to say that I can't," which
00:04:54
is a pretty, you know, incredible thing to do, but, you know, made school tough. So, yeah, very different.
00:05:01
What about brothers and sisters? I have a brother, uh, Daniel, who's an amazing human being, very funny. Um, um,
00:05:09
and I have a sister who is an actress who's, uh, also incredible. Um, they're very different as well. Um, I'm very close to my brother, not so much to my sister. We sort of all my brother we
00:05:20
just played football together as kids and oddly Kerry is in the same world as me now and is kind of a BAFTA nominated
00:05:26
actress. She was in um him and her BBC 3 and super talented and yeah a great human being. The we're they're a lovely bunch but very strange. My family it's like being in a Pogue song when you go
00:05:39
to kind of Christmas parties around our way. Do you know what I mean? Do you have It's sort of you know those like I
00:05:46
remember weirdly the funeral of my nan and granddad. Um it was separate. It sounded like they
00:05:52
it was a pack but but I that feeling sometimes when you go to a funeral and you're so proud
00:05:58
to have the same blood as the people in the room. I kind of feel that whenever I'm back with my family in the West Country. there's there's such a blessy
00:06:08
and energy to them that I adore and feel so kind of delighted to be part of, you
00:06:14
know, it's kind of Yeah. Um Jimmy Carr said something to me which I've been waiting to ask another
00:06:20
comedian. There's a stereotype that comedians are funny because they're depressed. Yeah. But Jimmy Car said that's wrong. He said
00:06:27
you've really got to ask a comedian who in their family is sick. M um because he says that much of his
00:06:33
comedic genius or his desire to please people came from um trying to make a family member happy or trying to ease moments of tension in the family dynamic when he was younger. Um do you resonate
00:06:45
with that at all? Yeah. Yeah. Completely. um that my dad my dad is, you know, is successful and super serious, but used
00:06:59
to lose his mind watching kind of Billy Connley or watching Have I Got News for You. So, he would like howl with
00:07:05
laughter and we sort of figured out the way to break dad's serious energy was to
00:07:14
make him laugh, you know? So definitely it was kind of there's no tension if people are like I've got a line in my new special which is laughter is the lubricant that makes life livable and it
00:07:26
it you know it really it soothes tensions and it's a bandage that gets over cracks definitely you know and then
00:07:33
it's sort of this thing that you when you discover you you know you can make people laugh it's so addictive and you
00:07:39
can literally create your own energy and like you do an arena there's 15,000 people there you'll orchestr ating this
00:07:47
almost societal orgasm where they're kind of like lost in laughter together. It's you feel like a necromancer, man. It's the best. And I think Jim's right
00:07:58
in that it that initial spark comes from probably I'm thinking of other comedians
00:08:04
as well as myself. It's sort of that sense of, you know, like I've got a lazy eye. So that was a, you know, so I
00:08:10
became funny to deflect and did jokes about my eyes to get to stop people looking at them. And then you kind of
00:08:16
realize, okay, this is kind of cool. Or if you're a bit thick or if you're not good at football or you don't fit in,
00:08:22
you can kind of sort of rebrand yourself in a strange way through humor. And you can you can create your own
00:08:33
kind of energy. That sounds kind of wanky, but do you know what I mean? Of course I do. Because there's there's also another stereotype which is that
00:08:39
people who are slightly um slightly bigger but tend to be really bubbly and have funny personalities in a comedians as well which is would fit that kind of idea that it's a
00:08:50
it's a tool of deflection. Yeah. From something else, you know, they don't want them to focus on or
00:08:57
um you talk about it being linked heavily linked to self-esteem as well. And you're Yeah.
00:09:02
Yeah. What's odd, the further you get into it, you realize that it's so much fun doing standup. Um, and it's such a wild drug effectively because you're
00:09:12
doing these massive gigs in front of 2,000 people and everyone's laughing or 15,000 people or you're in New York, you're doing a gig in Finland and it you
00:09:19
can't quite get over it and then as a consequence it's quite hard to sit down and watch the TV and be normal and um so
00:09:28
you're kind of chasing that sort of high and it's about the real the real skill is trying to figure out the sort of work life balance. you know, I'm speaking to somebody whose uh house
00:09:40
is above work. But do you know what I mean? It's like see the only the only way around it is to sort of integrate it
00:09:46
really. But like I don't know. I've been doing standup since I was 18. I remember doing the first gig and it felt like it was
00:09:53
you sort of discovered a mechanism through which you can do life that everything sad, good, happy, weird,
00:10:00
peculiar can go through this sausage maker and you can then uh understand life, figure it out. But also that's a very strange way to to do it because you you you're
00:10:14
using the stage to kind of um uh dissect yourself, but the aim is always funny. But I don't know of a better way to do it than to kind of make sense of the world. And the funny thing about all
00:10:27
comics is guaranteed if they find themselves in a strange situation, sometimes a heartbreaking situation in
00:10:33
life, there's always a little part of your brain going could be a bit in this. And it's that horrible sort of, you
00:10:41
know, sort of disease that we have that you can't ever truly be there because there's always a little bit of you, whether you're Seinfeld or, you know, Taylor or Bill Burr or Chappelle or
00:10:53
whatever, your brain is going, "Yep, there's stuff in this." Do you know what I as you're having the as you're getting
00:10:58
beaten up or whatever your brain I remember getting mugged in Brighton when I was 18 and and this this guy shouted
00:11:07
to me come back I'm a police officer he clearly wasn't and I said no you're not you're a monster and as I said it I went
00:11:14
that's going to be quite funny I reckon like but I'm literally running away I'm terrified but my brain's going yeah
00:11:19
probably build a little bit about that and it's I think all all comics that I know have that thing where
00:11:27
reality is always auditioning to find its way into your set. Wow. That could uh that could get out of hand and you could start willing misfortune.
00:11:38
This is the weird thing. Yeah. Well, but well, exactly. But it's that's the problem. Yeah. Well, you haven't got any
00:11:43
jokes or anything. You're just walking around dressed as a clown going to like a [ __ ] zoo. There's got to be something in this. But yeah, you're
00:11:49
right. But it it's sort of about keeping life open a bit and keeping the third eye open really probably that's the same of all creatives where you kind of you
00:11:59
or all people really like you have to notice the thing the things that niggle you and if you're talking about them
00:12:05
whether it's you know like in my last special I had a big bit about kind of young women selfharming. I couldn't I was like what? Like one in four women self harm. And I was like couldn't get
00:12:16
my head around that. And I just knew I had to talk about it on stage. And yesterday I saw this lady complaining because the foam in her cup wasn't at
00:12:26
the top of her cup. And I for the rest of that morning I couldn't I couldn't get my head around it. Just how do you get the confidence to complain about your foam not being there? And I know
00:12:38
somehow that's going to end up in a show somewhere. That's the way I kind of operate really. I sort of see these
00:12:43
little things or and they kind of I make a note at my phone and they gradually kind of make their way, you know.
00:12:50
Interesting. It's like collecting dots from society and then figuring out later how they form. Well, I think that I know Chris Martin
00:12:56
does a similar thing where you just make little notes of lyrics and Woody Allen does similar thing. Woody Allen will
00:13:01
just write a load of stuff and then he puts it in a um a drawer and then when he comes to write a film, he just gets
00:13:07
the drawer out, empties all these notes that he's been making for the last 6 months and figures out what the film's
00:13:14
going to be. And I that's a lot easier than sort of writing from a blank page because you can then finesse your kind
00:13:21
of thoughts in the field when you're in the laboratory as it were. You said something there which I find really interesting and I think is there's kind of um almost analogies for life within
00:13:33
which is after you've come off stage to thousands of people in an arena you then go home and have to like sit in front of
00:13:39
the TV. Yeah, the the antilimax dealing with like that consistent high then low. It feels like a lot emotionally cuz that's like a huge adrenaline surge and then even like
00:13:51
physiologically that it feels like that must be non not natural have a consequence.
00:13:57
Yeah, Christ that's deep. Let's hope it doesn't. But yeah, you're right. It's it's
00:14:04
yeah it every comedian when they're in the middle of a tour needs a really really good box set like do you know what I mean? It's like you need succession
00:14:15
you need madmen you need something to get you through because yeah it's sort of otherwise like if you're trying to
00:14:21
maintain that high um you know if you're sort of drinking and you're doing drugs or whatnot it's going to make it harder
00:14:26
to be that version. It's kind of like whereas if you're a musician, you can still sing
00:14:32
the song that they want you to sing if you're on kind of coke or like or you're pissed up. It's kind of hard to be a
00:14:38
good comic for a long time if you're kind of, you know, on drink and drugs. So yeah, you have to sort of
00:14:44
develop this kind of way of like reintegrating your life. But also it's nonsense as well. It's
00:14:51
just it's it's fun makeelie like and and and also what's important is kind of you
00:14:56
know going for a meal with your wife and and and hanging out and seeing friends and and there's joy in that you know and
00:15:02
you see you you you have to you have to try you have to plan fun. I think that that's the crucial thing you have to go right we'll go on holiday and we'll go to that restaurant and we'll watch this
00:15:14
film because I think like you say it's the sitting and the and the waiting that is very difficult to compete with the the innate rush that you get from standup
00:15:25
because of what you do professionally. Do you find it harder to enjoy the sitting and the waiting and the meal
00:15:32
where you're sat there just you know and the holiday where you're sat on the deck chair? Not like I normally what I love
00:15:38
about holidays, I don't know what your feelings are about them, but by the end of like 10 days, I'm ready to go back to
00:15:45
my life because holidays remind me of how much I love my life. And that's the thing. So, you need to have that kind of
00:15:52
I'm a real sit in the sun, you know, read some books, um, listen to podcasts, whatever, and then kind of go again. But I like the recharge of it. If there was a if there was a thing where you could
00:16:04
literally plug yourself in like a mobile phone, I would happily do that on a beach. Do you know what I mean? And then kind of go again. But I'm not really a
00:16:11
when I'm in holiday mode, I'm not really a culture vulture. I'm kind of a sit down, plunk, book, sun, relax, get ill
00:16:19
because I've been putting it off. Do you know what I mean? Your body just kind of gets a bit sick and then you kind of go again. How about you? Do you are you a
00:16:26
relaxer? Uh, I think I'm a forced relaxer. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think my girlfriend
00:16:31
is the reason why I would go on holiday and I think she's also the reason why I would be present on holiday and she's
00:16:37
the reason why I'd go and look at like a castle or something. Okay. But castle like whatever she would want to look at. But I think if it was just up to me, I
00:16:44
wouldn't go and I wouldn't do it. And even if I did go, I wouldn't leave the hotel room. Yes, there's like strong evidence for that
00:16:50
because whenever I've gone to speak in a country or whatever, I don't leave the hotel room. I have no desire to do anything but just be on my phone or
00:16:56
laptop. So, it's pretty sad, but I think, you know, that's why it's fortunate that I have a girlfriend.
00:17:01
Yeah. But it's also that thing as well of like you clearly with the job you do, you clearly love it
00:17:07
as well. I love it. Yeah. So, that's the thing. If you're fortunate enough, there are so many there are billions of people who are who
00:17:14
are who, you know, live for the weekend. Do your job, punch in job you don't like, get your money, smash your weekend, try and find your fun. You're one of the There are so few people in
00:17:26
this world that truly have a thing that they do that they get paid for that they adore. You just got to get hold of it,
00:17:33
man. And just like there's no shame, but it just seems peculiar to the outside. You got to be how obsessed you you get about your job or I would get about standup or there was a documentary about
00:17:44
the comedy store um on uh Sky recently and I watched it. It was incredible. It was a beautiful kind of summer's day and I smashed the whole thing. was one of the best days I've ever ran in my life because it was incredible and it evoked
00:17:55
this kind of the comedy store from the sort of the 70s and the 80s and Jay Leno and all this and it just you know I was like we need a time machine we need to go back to to those times at the comedy
00:18:07
store but because I love standup and I kind of you know it it's you have to be with people that understand your passions because you can't fake it. You can't go let's go to the castle if
00:18:18
you're not a go to the castle guy. Do you know what I mean? But you're right, you can be you can have help to look at
00:18:23
the castle and then you realize when you get to the castle that this is a really nice castle. Yeah. I wouldn't have come had you not
00:18:29
completely. Yeah. Yeah. Um we're not staying for ages at the castle, right? I don't want to It's not an Airbnb. Um
00:18:36
but you started writing. So on that point of finding your passion and pursuing it, you started writing jokes at 14.
00:18:41
Yeah. Wow. You've done your research. Yeah. Yeah. I had an old computer and uh yeah, I kind of I watched a Lee Evans
00:18:48
video with my mate my mate Craig. Um, and uh, it blew my mind because when I was a kid, stand up really wasn't on TV that you'd have like a Billy Connley tape. Uh, you'd have like Have I Got
00:18:59
News for You is a big show or Bottom or uh, um, Shooting Stars. It was that kind
00:19:05
of era, but Standard wasn't really a thing. Um, and he was the first sort of person that I'd seen who kind of was just funny, wasn't an alpha, and I was
00:19:16
like, "Wow, he like it was mindblowing. I just I think I could be that's sort of
00:19:22
a bit like how I'm funny like you know what I mean? And um me and Craig just wore that tape out. We just watched it
00:19:28
over and over and over and um and I didn't tell anyone about it. I just started writing these little kind of
00:19:34
jokes and routines and ideas that um none of which were any good but it just became like my little it was like my little fun place to go to every so often goes I'm going to write some of
00:19:46
my jokes. Did you perform them to anybody at that age? My first ever gig was in Bristol, a place called Virgin Murf, and I took all
00:19:52
these jokes that I've been writing since I was 14. And I whittleled it down to my best 20. And uh I did it there at Virgin
00:19:58
Murth. I followed a guy uh who was eating a banana with a spoon, singing the theme tune to the Sweeney um and uh another bloke that was sort of like his
00:20:09
act was to punch himself in the face. So, in a sense, it didn't really matter how bad my 14-year-old stuff was. Um but
00:20:16
yeah, so that was it. And then I kind of some of it stuck, some of it didn't, but it was all like I had this bit about
00:20:23
like how did Captain Kirk get through the entire I wrote this when I was 14, but how did Captain Kirk get through all
00:20:29
the Star Trek episodes without once flicking Spock's ears. So that was one of my first So and I sort of think it's
00:20:34
all right. It's not bad. It's not bad. But that was the first joke I ever kind of told. And one of the things I found quite
00:20:40
peculiar in your story is that your your dad um really pushed you to give comedy
00:20:46
a go. Yeah. And that that seems of all the guests I sit here with, the thing that has
00:20:51
typically made them um famous or wellknown or successful, they their parents were usually quite against it and would much rather have them got a quote unquote real job.
00:21:03
Yes. So what were you doing at the time? Um, and yeah, why why was your dad supportive of
00:21:10
it when, you know, at a time when that's probably not considered a highly profitable, high chance of success
00:21:17
career? Yeah, I was working at the RAAC in Bristol. I had a part-time job. Um, and
00:21:24
I was also doing standup and I because I started standup at university and then finished my degree, went home and uh was
00:21:31
just kind of doing probably three gigs a week for, you know, 50 quid a pop or like
00:21:38
sometimes 100 quid a pop, that kind of thing. and um uh alongside this kind of like shift at the RAC and it was I was kind of like I'd have a
00:21:49
gig in Lincoln and then I'd have to drive back to get to work and it was was kind of like knackering and my dad
00:21:55
basically I remember weirdly not to name drop but I was talking to Matthew McConnA about this and it's a very
00:22:02
similar thing where his dad when he told his dad he wasn't going to become a lawyer he was going to become a comedian
00:22:08
um um an actor His dad said, "Don't halfass it." And that was a similar reaction to my dad. My dad basically was like, "Right, if you want to do this, you're 21.
00:22:18
Go for it. Give yourself a year. Don't stop. Put everything into it." And then if if it's not happening in a year, you stop. You get a proper job. And I kind
00:22:30
of I I really respected that option that he gave me. Do you know what I mean? It
00:22:35
was like, "Oh, be fine." It was like, "Don't [ __ ] around. properly go for it. Don't do three gigs a week. Do five gigs
00:22:42
a week. Just do that and then see where you are in a year. And um I was at the Edinburgh Festival. I had about like eight days left from this
00:22:53
kind of like contract and uh my now agent saw me at the Edinburgh Festival have like a really good gig and he kind of said, "Oh, does it always go that well?" And I was like, "All the time?
00:23:05
You mad?" Yeah. Um, but I was I was doing lots of sort of improvising and stuff like that. It was quite hit and
00:23:10
miss back then. And then we went for a went for a meal. He gave me they used to have a a thing called the Comedy Network
00:23:17
where it was like 30 gigs around universities. And that day he booked me into these 30 gigs that were at the time
00:23:24
I still remember the money. It's £150 per gig spreading out into November. And but to work for um a comedy company called Avalon. one of the biggest kind of comedy producers in the in the UK and
00:23:40
then he signed me and so it it worked and then I kind of moved to London and kind of you know slowly kind of kept on
00:23:48
keeping on. I really I liked the deadline that my dad gave me. Do you know what I mean? because it was kind of
00:23:53
and I re I really really respected it and he he had this amazing quote on his office that that said something like I
00:24:01
think it's by te ts Elliot or te Elliot that said those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their mind wake in the day to find that all is vanity but the dreamers of the day are dangerous
00:24:12
for they act upon their visions with open eyes and make them happen and that is at the core of my dad so he's kind of
00:24:20
quite disciplined but he also has a [ __ ] it go for it. But yeah, I just went for it. But also because I loved it and I
00:24:27
didn't love working at the RSC and I didn't I'd finished my degree and I knew what I wanted to do and I just I just
00:24:35
worked my bollocks off, man. I did every gig you can imagine. But loved it. And my brother used to come to them. We
00:24:40
traveled down to Brighton to do 10 minutes and uh you know we we'd have to sort of bunny hop the car to Reading Station because we didn't fill up. And you know it was it was real kind of fly
00:24:51
by the seat. your pants stuff, but just the best. It was the best. It was like it's the best night out. You go to Plymouth and you, you know, it's a
00:25:01
six-hour round journey, but you do 20 minutes and it goes great. And then the promoter says, "Oh, we'll get you back."
00:25:07
And you're like, "Brilliant." I go back to Plymouth, you know, and um yeah, it sort of all worked out.
00:25:14
something so interesting when I speak to successful comedians because it's one of the like purest forms of like insanely I
00:25:22
say insanely but like if you were trying to reach a lucrative outcome one of the
00:25:29
like insane paths uh one of this most insane pure followings of one's passion because it seems to be the case that you follow your this passion which doesn't
00:25:41
promise to ever pay you that well Yeah. Or promises no chance of success and you follow it for years
00:25:48
50 quid and then I mean I speak to the successful but when you look back on that period of your life and and if I was to say like what are the what are the key things
00:25:59
you've you've identified hard work as one of them but what are like the key things that made you
00:26:05
get here when so many won't get here? hard work, luck, um natural talent, um perspiration, um um
00:26:22
but mostly and I would say luck is a big thing. Luck and hard work are the big big ones and and taking your opportunity
00:26:29
and having little kind of moments and always listening to the crowd as well because it's sort of that thing where
00:26:35
certainly as a live comedian, you can't [ __ ] people like that. There is you get a tangible answer every time. The
00:26:43
laughter is yes. The silence is no. You just can't [ __ ] with that. Like that's that is the there is a truth
00:26:50
to the to the gig. If if they're laughing, it's fine. If they're not, it ain't. And
00:26:56
that's the big thing really. It's just kind of, you know, all great comedians listen to the audience because they're
00:27:02
all that matters. And you can be critically lorded, you can be um you can win awards, you know, but ultimately if if you don't hear
00:27:14
laughter, you won't be here. And it's and you have to have new stuff. That's the big thing. You have to you have to
00:27:20
make them laugh and constantly constantly renew yourself. That's the thing. Um to kind of to stick around.
00:27:28
You make the audience laugh. They all burst out laughing. They clap. They say, "Oh, you're amazing." after the gig, they say, "We're going to rebook you.
00:27:34
You're the best person ever." Does that impact your self-esteem in a positive way? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Imagine that. But
00:27:40
yeah, it's Yeah, it's the best, man. It's just But that feeling when you do the Brighton Comedia and you're 20 and
00:27:47
you do 10 minutes and it goes really well and Steven Grant, who is still the booker at the Brighton Comedia, says,
00:27:53
"Oh, we'll get you back for a 20." That journey home does the best. or someone says, "Are you going to do the we're
00:28:00
going to get you back to uh to host uh the Lincoln student night?" And you're like, "Yeah, do you want to do it
00:28:05
monthly?" "Yes." And you build up this like little following in Lincoln because it's
00:28:12
it's it's of course your self-esteem is just up there because you feel like you're
00:28:18
a youth team footballer that's breaking into the first team. That's how it must feel like. You feel like you're kind of
00:28:24
Phil Fodden and you get these little opportunities. It's probably similar thing with footballers like what makes
00:28:30
Phil Foden probably that he has natural talent. He works his ass off and when there's opportunities, he's kind of
00:28:36
clinical enough to take advantage of them. Do you know what I mean? And learn from mistakes. That's the And comedy is
00:28:42
is constantly about learning from mistakes because you go you do new material doesn't work, you you tweak it,
00:28:47
you tweak it, you tweak it until you get something that that that kind of makes them laugh. We would one would then
00:28:54
assume that comedians have like just tremendously high self-esteem if they're laughing. Yeah. But then what the the interesting as well is how quickly it crumbles down if it goes
00:29:05
badly and I've got a friend of mine Al Pitcher who's a comic in Sweden and we talk about this a lot where when you're
00:29:11
low it irrespective of what you've done before you just feel like like such deep
00:29:17
deep shame that you've been unable to kind of make them laugh. Um, but then that makes you work hard and go again because you know the excitement you get from making them laugh. So it's this
00:29:29
it's an unhealthy treadmill but at the end of that treadmill there is this incredible cherry.
00:29:36
Deep deep shame just because it's embarrassing. It's like you've you've tried to make like even this I'm really enjoying this. It's really fun but it's very serious and we've got like a little
00:29:46
mini audience over there. I can hear and every little laugh my brain's going that's good and when they're not I'm
00:29:52
like [ __ ] hell. Yeah, totally. Just because you sort of feel like you know it's sort of that weird thing for me
00:29:59
laughter is truth and victory and silence is failure but then the interesting thing about that is when you watch a performance you actually realize that of of another comic you go wow
00:30:11
there's real power in the silence actually which took me a long time to realize cuz I was very initially
00:30:18
just keep it up. Keep it up. Keep it up. And then you kind of, you know, you you watch someone like Chappelle, um, for
00:30:24
example, and you go, he's a real master of the silence. And you don't you're not you don't lose
00:30:30
him. Do you know what I mean? And you're not away. You're captivated. But it takes a really long time to feel that
00:30:38
you've earned the right to captivate an audience. But there's captivation in silence. But
00:30:44
who [ __ ] thinks they're captivating? That's the hardest thing I find is to kind of you can never know whether
00:30:50
you've been captivating or dull because the sound is the same. Do you know what I mean? It's sort of that weird thing of
00:30:57
like I mean I don't come off stage going was that captivating or dull. Um but hopefully Yeah.
00:31:04
It's really interesting. So when when you have conversations like this because there is no like there's not huge
00:31:09
amounts of laughter because it's a serious conversation. But I love chats like this. This is the best man. But yeah, go on. I that's what
00:31:16
I was basically asking was um it's when we when we have comedians come here, we've had Russell Kane, we've had
00:31:21
obviously Jimmy Carr. Um they do make a lot of jokes even before we're filming. I think you know Jack will like put the microphone close to Jimmy Carr's mouth and I think he said something like um
00:31:33
just keep it like a fist away and he said that's what your mother said. Yeah. And it's almost like a um a
00:31:40
Tourette's of humor which is and I wonder how you kind of get through life like that and it almost feels like
00:31:47
uncontrollable. Yeah. Honestly, that is the best description of it. Like there's a joke
00:31:52
that I think sums up comedians brains the best by a brilliant comedian called u Mitch Hedber. He he's no longer with us. One of the greatest comedians of all time. And th this joke sums up the brain
00:32:06
that comedians have where and I'll do his impression if there's fans of Mitch out there. Forgive me for this, but it
00:32:12
works better if you try and do it as him. He kind of goes, I mumble, man. I mumble a lot off stage. I'm a mumbler.
00:32:19
So, I'll be with my friend and I'll I'll say something and he'll be like, "What?"
00:32:24
And I'll say it again a little bit louder and he'll be like, "I didn't hear you." And then the third time I'll say
00:32:30
it and he still can't hear me. So I'll say it to him, but now I'm yelling at him, "That tree is far away."
00:32:38
And that's what it is. It's this thing in his head that's gone, "Oh, the tree is far away."
00:32:44
And he It's a joke about the mania. What you know, I was saying that trees over there. Look, but it's not. It's further away than And it's that thing. The amount of times I've been with my my
00:32:55
wife and you sort of say something and she go, "What? [ __ ] you." Just I saw this bin in Primrose Hill the other day
00:33:01
that genuinely said protect um our birds. This was the line on the bin. Protect our birds. It was a picture of like a a bird and respect their way of
00:33:12
life. And I just went into this thing of like I don't know you show respect to a [ __ ] but like in my head I'm just
00:33:17
kind of like I didn't know there were disgruntled chaff inches all over Primrose Hill. I've never seen that on
00:33:22
the news of just kind of going today a bird was the victim of of uh you know of of of somebody attacking it. My brain
00:33:29
was just like worring around with this and she can see I'm I'm kind of full zombie eyes just gone. She what you on
00:33:36
about go [ __ ] Ben was resp that's kind of the the way that comics brains are. I think that you you spend a lot of time playing around in your head. Um and then you kind of go, "Oh, that
00:33:49
that might be something." You know, like we were the other day um I was talking to a friend about sperm donors and somebody had had uh there was this
00:34:01
website and on the you could sort of get you could get your batch and one of them was like um uh you know he was like 6'4
00:34:11
Swedish keen reader and um you're really good job and you're like yeah that's exactly what I'd say if I was trying to flog spunk. Do you know what I mean? You're not gonna kind of go bit of a
00:34:21
loner comes in every Wednesday. We've had to stop him. But but my point being, we were having a chat about sperm doning and my brain was sort of off in this
00:34:32
sort of fantasy land. Where's the bit kind of like Well, I just found it so funny that I don't know any true 6'4 high achieving
00:34:41
intellectuals that kind of just going to nip out to spaf into a pot. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't exist. But
00:34:46
everyone's tinder tinder bias. Totally. Right. But the point is you you spend a lot of time in that kind of fun zone. Um, and that I think that's the
00:34:56
brain that a lot of comics have. Speaking of that brain spiraling when after you've done a gig or you
00:35:01
know, can you remember a time where you you like go on Google, you go on the Daily Mail or something, you Twitter and
00:35:08
you look at articles of what people are saying of you and it has a really profound like negative impact on your
00:35:14
what you think about yourself and you start to question yourself. I don't do it. Like I I
00:35:20
came up in the days of uh MySpace and whatnot. And that was I've never been on Twitter. I've never been on Facebook. Um
00:35:28
uh I do a bit of Instagram. It's the same with reviews. It's a very funny thing. You get a fivestar review and
00:35:33
your brain's like, "Exactly. Yep. Correct." You get a shitty review and you're like, "What the fuck?" And you
00:35:38
realize that you have to pay no heed to it. the only I mean it's flattering and it's great and it's lovely to get nice reviews and anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting but it's with social media
00:35:51
you you you can't it's too much to kind of seek validation from people particularly in the world that we live in at the minute where you're having to check to
00:36:03
see if you've been correct for you're not going to be right for everybody and and some people will not like a joke or
00:36:08
some people s you know you just have to try and stay where will stay where you are. So, I I've definitely had times
00:36:15
like that when I was younger and it just crushes you and you realize actually all I'm doing is paying attention to the
00:36:23
really negative things that people say. Um, and there'll be like, you know, one out of 50 that's super horrible. Um,
00:36:31
rather than focusing on on the kind things and you realize actually my brain focuses on the negative and you go, "Yeah, they're right actually." Yeah.
00:36:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Correct. Correct. Correct. It just doesn't make me
00:36:42
uh a better, more functional human being. It just it hurts. So, I don't do it. Do you know what I mean? So, I just
00:36:48
kind of But people must have said to you, your agents, your manager said, "Oh, get on Twitter. That'll help." Yeah. Well, what what I do, what I love
00:36:54
about social media is I like making things and then putting it on there and so putting clips of standup or the TV
00:37:01
show or whatever. But I I I I don't I'm lucky. I have a I if I want to do comedy, I can go to a comedy club and it's a dark room and I can howl or I
00:37:13
can scream or I can be silly. I can do whatever I want. It's in a comedy club. Social media is the worst comedy club in
00:37:18
the world because people aren't there to laugh. Do you mean everyone there is there to laugh and there's this sort of lovely
00:37:26
bonding experience. We're here for a reason. Whereas social media, some people, most people in the world are
00:37:32
just up for a hoot. But some people are are are looking to be to be angry or they're looking to be enraged. So it just seems naive to put humor into such
00:37:44
a volatile club. Can you imagine if you if it was a club called Twitter, right? Hey, do you want to come play Twitter?
00:37:50
Can you imagine how hard that comedy club would be? Do you know what I mean? And so I just don't I don't bother with
00:37:56
it. But I like making things that are finished and then putting them out. But I kind of literally email them to my
00:38:01
agent then say, "Oh, we should put this bit from the show on." I don't even know. I haven't got my login. I don't know. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:08
Way to live. Yeah. But but but and but and also maybe it's because I'm 41 and I kind of came
00:38:13
up in an era where standup was still playing clubs. If you're if you're a young guy now, um it must be completely
00:38:22
different. And there's loads of kind of great comics that have kind of come up through social media um or through
00:38:28
podcasts. And I love that because there's particularly podcasts, I think, with like young comics, there's a real air of punk about it where you kind of
00:38:34
going, I'm not going to wait for TV to give me anything. I'm going to make my own thing and then people gravitate to
00:38:40
that. And uh and it's it that's your thing. And and you you can't mess with that. Whereas I love that. I love the fact that people aren't going to be waiting for TV to anoint them. But I was
00:38:52
very lucky that I was just doing live gigs. And then when I was 26 after having done standup since I was 18,
00:38:58
somebody said, "Do you want to go on TV?" And I kind of went the traditional path as it were and kind of social media
00:39:04
grew alongside it. But I was never I I never needed it, which is not to say I couldn't have been bigger if I cultivated it, but the content I like making exists in the club and it's
00:39:20
finished when I do a Netflix special or it's finished when I do a TV show. It's it's in a state of flux when I'm in a
00:39:26
comedy club. Um it's in a constant state of becoming. And the problem with social
00:39:32
media, it makes everything finite and tangible. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes jokes evolve or routines evolve. If you put it out there, it it might be rubbish or it might be
00:39:45
illconceived. It might upset people. But by the end of it, having worked in it in
00:39:51
a comedy club, it might say exactly what you want it to say. It's it's a really sort of sort of holy space. The comedy
00:39:58
club versus versus Twitter. Why should you drink Hule? We're going into the fourth quarter of the year. Diets are dropping off. We're becoming lazier and lazier. And what tends to happen when
00:40:09
when our diets dip and we we start to become less um compelled to go to the gym is yeah, we get out of shape. We
00:40:17
start to feel low energy. We start to binge eat bad things. And Hule is the antidote. It's nutritionally complete.
00:40:24
So, you get everything you need for your diet in a drink. You get your 20 grams of proteins. You're going to get your 26 vitamins and vitamins and minerals. It's
00:40:31
low sugar, high in fiber. It really is the cure to a lot of the health issues that we see in our personal lives, but in wider society. If you've never tried it, all I'll ask you to do is give it a
00:40:42
try. And if you're like me, then you will like the World Berry, ready to drink. You'll like the mac and cheese, which is just selling like absolutely crazy, unsurprisingly. Um, you'll like
00:40:55
the cinnamon, and you'll like the banana flavor. Those are my recommendations. I know a lot of people love the chocolate
00:41:01
flavor. Let me know. Try it. Get yourself healthy. And send me a message on Instagram. Tag me on Instagram as
00:41:07
well on your stories if you do drink, try it out, cuz I I sometimes upload those tags. and let me know which is
00:41:12
your favorite flavor. Can't wait to hear from you. As a comedian, do you ever feel a sense of imposter syndrome?
00:41:17
Yeah, I think I don't know any great comic that doesn't talking to Billy Connley. Billy Connelly used to get nervous. Billy Connelly was worried that the
00:41:31
audience wouldn't love him, that he wasn't worth the evening. Billy Connelly. If Billy Connelly is thinking that, then you know, you know, all of us are. And it's I think if you get to that
00:41:42
stage where you're like, "This is going to be great. I know it's going to be great." It probably won't. You have to
00:41:48
have a healthy degree of of of imposttor syndrome in order to be the best version of
00:41:55
yourself because you have to kind of, you know, you have to burst into that party and be the best, funniest you
00:42:02
because that's what's on the ticket. That's the the thing. And the only way to do that is kind of hard work, you
00:42:07
know. Um, but to to to just rock up, for example, to an arena tour having done no kind of
00:42:14
warm-ups, it'll be fine. It [ __ ] won't. Arrogance destroys standup. You kind of have to you have to go to small clubs before you start doing a tour to kind of know you're okay to get rid of
00:42:27
that. And without imposter syndrome, you uh you don't grow as an artist. Do you know what I mean? But it can be deal tough to deal with psychologically, right? Because is it it
00:42:38
sounds like it must be similar to living with a sense of like self scrutiny which can be quite unhealthy. I don't I don't
00:42:46
know. Yeah. Yeah. What the I guess the the key thing is to you've got to I think you have to leave on on your own terms. Do you know what I mean? as in
00:42:59
stop. There's a there's a while where this won't be healthy forever because it's a str it is a strange way to live
00:43:05
with that. Do you feel that? You feel like it won't be Yeah. Yeah. Just because you just kind of go there would just come a time where
00:43:11
you're you're just you're not as sharp as you once were and you're like ah fine I'll just go work in local radio. But
00:43:18
like like not that's not a dig at anyone in local radio. You do important stuff. Keep those weather checks coming. But
00:43:25
doing kind of arenas for a long time is, you know, I've been doing them since like 2012 now. And that
00:43:32
is a crazy level of pressure because you sort of do we do I do them in like a month-long block in the UK and it's kind
00:43:40
of right okay, you know, and then you get through it and then you're like, okay, go again, go again. And that isn't necessarily the healthiest way to be forever.
00:43:53
Does it have mental health implications on you? Because like if you're living with that kind of internal fluctuation
00:44:00
all the time and that anticipation that those feelings of self-doubt that you know they say that
00:44:05
anxiety in particular is like concern about the future. If you're constantly thinking about the future, that moment
00:44:11
in that arena is do you feel anxious at all? Well, the funny thing is the only time you don't feel anxious is when you're doing the uh when you're doing standup, but weirdly that's the that's
00:44:22
the rest bite. Um, but the leading up to it, it's nerve-wracking, but as soon as
00:44:27
you step on the uh on the stage, you kind of you know exactly what you're going to do and it's fun. It's the most
00:44:33
fun in the world. And then it's the but the leading up to it and the afterwards. Was that right? Was that fine? It was
00:44:38
good. Right. Fine. You know, I think you sort of just make your peace with it. And you like you say it's it's me it
00:44:45
leaves you mentally fragile but I don't know of another way of doing it. Do you have you suffered with anxiety though? Oh yeah massively. Like it's sort of but I think it's sort of that thing like
00:44:58
right I have these gigs. If I don't do this work I'm going to look like a fool. People are going to boo me. There's
00:45:04
going to be anger. Blah blah blah blah. So you go. So that fear drives you to write and perform and get a show that's
00:45:10
good enough. Right. And I've not found anything that was a useful motivator. But like you say, it's a tough way of of
00:45:16
being. Like Johnny Wilkinson, I remember seeing this about him. Johnny Wilkinson kicked the uh winning um I don't know
00:45:23
rugby, but the winning World Cup kick. World Cup kick. Yeah. Right. Um and as the ball sort of soared over, apparently he said to himself, his brain went, "You
00:45:34
nearly missed that." as it went over like and he's won the World Cup and the next day he was training and he was kicking goals again to ensure that he
00:45:46
didn't make that mistake and unfortunately for him that's what makes him magnificent you know what I mean and it and I think it's sort of that thing where you go the older you get you can
00:45:58
try and adapt it and try and figure out and you know and we're all in a constant state of becoming as regards our sort of
00:46:05
mental health and trying to um figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining. But he scored the winning goal, the World Cup, you know, and it's
00:46:19
sort of it's kind of shitty, but he but but that that determination is what sort of made
00:46:25
him. And it's kind of I guess the thing is it's about kind of ensuring that you have enough kindness
00:46:33
to yourself around that so that you kind of give yourself a break from time to time
00:46:38
and that the overall picture is happy that Yeah. Yeah. But but but I don't know of a a better motivator than fear
00:46:45
to make good stuff. Like if it if it exists. I mean what do can you recognize that? Do you have what what is there another thing that you have? I I guess excitement if you could turn
00:46:56
fear into excitement that would be a healthier way of doing it. Yeah. But I just don't find it as oh yeah so
00:47:03
much fun because we'll go there and it's going to be great. But then you wouldn't do the prep, right? As you say, if I excited, I
00:47:09
wouldn't I'd probably neglect. Well, that would be the thing. So that So you'd have like six months of joy.
00:47:15
Yeah. And then you do the thing. It would be [ __ ] awful. And then whereas at least this way you have six months of tension
00:47:22
and then you have joy and then the kind of joy lasts throughout the tour and then after the tour
00:47:27
and then after the tour you go back to fear to get there. I but I don't know like
00:47:33
it's but I I don't have the answers and I I I don't know what works for other people. But for me it is that and it's something that I'm trying to address which like
00:47:45
living in fear too much living in fear too much or putting too much responsibility on the thing but I
00:47:51
don't know of another way and like you know and I'm sort of you know seeing people and trying to figure it out but I
00:47:56
don't know what motivates you for example. It's a I completely get it. It's a trade-off, right? If you want to achieve
00:48:02
the goal, you need this. Unfortunat I always think this. I think I think everything has a cost. Yeah. Um and everything good in my life that I
00:48:09
love comes with a cost. It might be it could even be a financial cost or it could be some other type of sacrifice. And those
00:48:16
that have risen the highest in certain professions, it's so obvious to see the cost in their lives. It's much more
00:48:21
obvious than everyone else. So, I sit here with my guests. I see it with Eddie Eddie Hearn. He's built the number one
00:48:26
boxing promotion company, but he never ever sees his wife and kids. Yeah. And he's like it's like unsatisfiable as
00:48:33
a human. Yeah. You know, that's why his book is called Relentless. And I well that's the clear quote unquote cost potentially. Um and
00:48:40
yeah, with what you're saying being an arena performer, one would think that you spend a lot of
00:48:46
time in a certain mental place which is uh not always great. Yeah. But then I was just thinking then I was thinking about
00:48:58
the the fascinating thing about life is you have these so for example we did 10 nights of the Alberta Hall. Oh wow. Which is like a world record. It's mental. It was extraordinary that kind
00:49:08
of little me that used to sit in the back of mom and dad's um Ford uh fiesta watching the raindrops go down the window that I did 10 nights at the Alba Hall is mental. Um and it was fun. It
00:49:20
was brilliant. was great, but it was like you're playing snooker, you know, get all the reds, then then knock the
00:49:26
rest of them down, done. You know what I mean? But it's that lovely kind of controlled snooker brain. Joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. End
00:49:32
of the show. Hooray. Yeah. Go again. Right. But it was, but it was fun that exists from a sort of dopamine level on a very similar level as being on my stag
00:49:44
with my cousins in Vegas and hearing my cousin Lewis tell a story. And so I think it's my way of figuring it out is to have as many of those
00:49:58
dopamine hits of joy, whether it's good food, good company, um, travel, books, music, whatever. So that you're kind of constantly
00:50:09
feeding yourself like because if you just that's the big realization I've had that if you only try and get happiness
00:50:16
from work for me it doesn't work to sit around and and hope that your life outside of work can compete with this joy that you get from work. The only way you can do it is to surround yourself
00:50:26
with people that you think are fantastic or experiences that you think are fantastic. And it can even be little
00:50:32
things. It's just like, you know, like we we did some gigs in Dubai and we went to a water park every day and I'm 41 and I went with my my friends who are
00:50:43
all big big lads and we were on this rubber dingy and we kept going down this slide. We honestly it was it was the
00:50:50
joy, the silliness of the day led into the the fun of the gig. And I remember reading a thing about Chappelle that Chappelle when he's on tour, he brings his pals. He brings friends along
00:51:02
so that he's he's sort of living the joy of life is connected with the joy of work. He's never sort of sat backstage with his notepad kind of waiting for an hour and a half to go on.
00:51:15
And that's something I'm trying to do. I'm trying to kind of involve people more in in kind of work and be less kind
00:51:21
of you need to stay away. I need to concentrate, you know, to blend the two. And you kind of totally Yeah. And you talk about this in the same way with you at the a couple of
00:51:28
moments ago you talked about living for the week and then kind of like compartmentalizing that and then having
00:51:33
your life on the weekend and how that doesn't feel like the best way to live either because you have five days of misery and then two days of like pissed
00:51:40
you know getting trying to find the but I think also the pandemic has recalibrated a lot of people that you actually go we were kind of locked away
00:51:46
from each other and we were locked away from experience and the happiness of something appearing from nowhere. Those magical nights down the pub or watching
00:51:59
football or listening to music or having a barbecue with friends where a a moment
00:52:06
unintentionally becomes a memory. And we were kind of robbed of those social moments that created memories because we
00:52:13
were sat with this disease lurking, not knowing where our lives were going to become. We kind of felt like we were sort of immune from something this this heavy happening to us. And it didn't. It
00:52:24
happened to everybody. And it feels like because of that we we are now kind of coming out of the cave as it were with a real desire to
00:52:37
um find as much majesty in the universe as possible. that that I genuinely feel a lot of people like audiences post pandemic like
00:52:49
even British audiences who are you know by a stretch the the the toughest crowds
00:52:55
in the world like by a stretch is that that lovely English come in [ __ ] make me laugh you know what I mean whereas like
00:53:01
in America they're they're already up like you do comedy clubs in America they stand up as you walk in you know what I
00:53:07
mean and but but British crowds now because people are people want connection and they want experience because it was kind of robbed of us. So, um it feels like it could be a a really
00:53:22
glorious time and like like you were saying with the the tour that you've got planned. What a fantastic way of doing
00:53:27
that rather than just uh I could just do you could just do a Q&A but you're putting you know you're making what
00:53:33
sounds like a really pulsating live theater show. It's going to blow people's minds and
00:53:40
that's what I want to do. That's what audiences want. There's a friend of mine called Alex Edelman who said, "I like
00:53:47
stuff that's ambitious and finished." And that's kind of where I want to go. And I feel like that's where audiences want to be. They want to see something that's going to rock them, you know, and
00:53:59
and and blow them away. What a target to aim for to a thing that's going to be I'm gonna try and make a thing that's the best night out that anyone's ever had. One of the things you said was um just a
00:54:11
couple of moments ago was that you've seen someone to help you with uh that kind of fear living in fear state that
00:54:18
we described. What do you mean by you've seen someone? are just a bit of therapy to um yeah try and uh
00:54:25
um have like sort of little coping mechanisms, you know, you sort of just get you get far enough into it where you
00:54:32
go maybe just have a bit of help now um to recognize kind of moments of mania and how to kind of manage them a bit better. So nothing super exciting. It's not a shaman
00:54:44
or um you know, it's not any kind of Iaska or or mushrooms. It's just a bloke in a in an office.
00:54:50
So, what was your intention when you went to bloke in the office? um just to kind of make it a bit easier so that you
00:54:57
weren't loading it too much so you can still like you know work if efficiently without it becoming debilitating because I think that's the
00:55:11
thing probably a lot of people suffer from that by using fear as a motivator sometimes
00:55:17
you're probably losing 20% of your potential through kind of um panic. So yeah, it was sort of God, I sound like a [ __ ] robot when I said that. But you know what I mean? It was sort of that thing of like just trying to figure out, okay, is
00:55:31
there another way of doing this? Was that? Uh yeah, it's but even recognizing when
00:55:38
you're um just a bit fullon and just kind of go, "All right, just calm down." But I'm a real sucker for like little quotes, man. Or I was weirdly I'm interviewing Will
00:55:48
Smith on Thursday. Oh man. Which is mad. For 10 minutes. I've got a 10-minute interview with Will Smith. I'm so jealous. They they emailed me and
00:55:55
said because we have the same publisher like Will Smith's coming to town. I was like, "Can I get on the podcast like
00:56:00
he's got no time?" Yeah. I'd have loved 10 minutes. Well, but this is it. Well, I'll sneak you along, man. Let's do it. See if we
00:56:05
can double up. Well, but but I was listening to the beginning of his book and um it's a brilliant story about his
00:56:12
dad made him and his uh brother build a wall. And it's just this this is very very simple analogy. You've probably read it. It's just brick by brick and that's particularly when you're making a TV show and you're writing topical jokes
00:56:27
sometimes. Well, it's sometimes it's really hard to make stories interesting and to write jokes about things that are
00:56:33
going on. And in that instance this week, that really helped me brick by brick and I'm able to kind of go, okay,
00:56:39
yeah, cool. I can I can get stuff from that. You know, I'm I'm very much a from a philosophical point of view or a
00:56:46
therapy point of view, I need pointers and tips to make me better. I'm not a enjoy every sandwich kind of a guy because it's a [ __ ] sandwich. Like I, you know what I mean? Like being
00:56:58
in the sandwich just like it's a [ __ ] sandwich. Like I I I need I'm very much kind of eastern philosophy of like okay, how do we how do we make ourselves better? I love the idea of kind of sort
00:57:11
of self-improvement and being the best you. Um, so I find quotes help that, you know, and even talking to somebody like that I am like a bit of an expert, you he he'll
00:57:23
say something or you'll say something and you kind of unravel a thing. and even like what we're doing now sort of
00:57:28
having a chat about the process and I have a um my friend James Bay uh the singer we particularly during the dur during COVID we spoke a lot about uh everything and about
00:57:43
creativity and talking to like-minded individuals about the pursuit of a joke or a or a song or a uh any kind of piece of art I find really really interesting.
00:57:57
I love it. I'm so interested in the way that musicians create. I'm so envious because they sit in a cool room or they
00:58:04
go to like this studio and they kind of write and they jam and they riff and they create a thing and then they
00:58:09
perform it. Whereas the musicians I know are very envious of the way the comedians create which is
00:58:15
you go in front of a crowd and you create with not for. You know, it would be like the comparison of like Chris Martin going in front of a crowd in Chisik and going, "It was all blue.
00:58:25
Nope." Okay. Uh, it was all green. Nope. It was all yellow. Yellow. Right. I'll do yellow tomorrow. And it sort of is
00:58:32
that kind of process. So talking to different creatives or anyone who is sort of an expert in managing yourself is something that I find really
00:58:46
comforting or or you know like even I've really got to this guy Andrew Huberman at the minute he's like a professor from Stanford and there's all these kind of
00:58:58
neural linguistic things you can do to help yourself you know like cold showers and all this and Wimhof breathing all
00:59:03
this kind of stuff. Does that stuff work for you? Maybe it's psychossematic, but yeah, it feels like it does. Do you know what I
00:59:10
mean? You feel like you've done your It's like going to the gym. It just feels like medicine for you, doesn't it?
00:59:15
You always feel like no, no one enjoys going to the gym, you know? I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger did, but most
00:59:22
people are just like, "Right, do it." And it feels like a nice little tick for your soul. And it just feels like
00:59:27
therapy is almost well, it's exactly that, isn't it? It's a workout for your brain or having a conversation like this
00:59:33
is a really nice workout for your brain where we're both in kind of like a strange dream like state where we're
00:59:39
kind of having a deep conversation. Um we're kind of riffing but somehow without planning any of this we're getting to a deeper place and yet it's very strange cuz
00:59:51
there's people driving listening to us right now which is very weird. Do you know what I
00:59:57
mean? And well, that's the fascinating podcast in the future, man. And but you're in
01:00:03
the now, aren't you, Derek left there, but it's sort of that fascinating thing that you let people
01:00:09
travel to work with you. It's the coolest. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a huge Yeah. Especially cuz it comes out on Monday as
01:00:14
well. Yeah. Which is a particularly like interesting day to be in their ear at 6:00 a.m.
01:00:20
Yeah. But it's so funny, is it? What the podcast you listen to? what your what your go to if you listen lock me up if you found
01:00:26
out like I listen to like serial killer podcast yeah like therronos the trial of Elizabeth Holmes like crime and serial
01:00:33
killers tends to be my like go-to and you know what it's actually I probably know why now because I'm so
01:00:39
fascin I do this podcast I'm so fascinated by people in their psychology and for me criminals and serial killers are the most extreme and fascinating amongst us so I would love to have a
01:00:50
podcast where I could interview serial killers and be like why did you do that. Do you know? Yeah. It's basically what I'm doing now.
01:00:56
Slightly different fascination. So, it's just I I get so fascinated by them. I'm watching these serial killer documentaries trying to understand the
01:01:03
pattern in what made them like from their childhood and their dad said this and then kid on the playground punched them and then they just started killing
01:01:09
people, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. What about you? Sort of more fantasy football stuff really.
01:01:17
No, I kind of um Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, it's cuz a friend of mine does one. Um, uh, I, yeah, I listen to Tim Ferrris.
01:01:24
Yeah. And Andrew, uh, Huberman. Um, those are my go-tos. Marin I really like. Yeah. Yeah. She has some really great interviews. Um, yeah, I love there's a brilliant
01:01:37
interview with Maron and Seinfeld, which is one of my favorites. Like I really got into Jerry Seinfeld during the uh
01:01:43
during the lockdown, which is kind of so late. Do you know what I mean? I just feel like I've gone, "Hey, Radio Head are good." Um but um but yeah, I kind of
01:01:52
Yeah, that's my thing. I like I like hearing people that I don't know and having my mind blown. That's what I like
01:01:57
about podcast. I'm not into serial. I find it too Do you know what I mean? Too too icky for me. What? And you call yourself murderinos, don't you? Is that the name? If you're if you're a
01:02:09
big fan, you're a murderino. Oh, really? Wow. I fit in. Yeah. Um, one of the things you you're touching on
01:02:15
there about these kind of practical hacks and quotes and stuff that allow you to kind of get to a better place reminded me of something that I read about you regarding your pre performance
01:02:27
routine and superstitions. Yeah. Before you're going up on stage and there's, you know, 15,000 people out
01:02:33
there and they're all got their arms folded and demanding you to make them laugh, what are you doing backstage to get yourself in this state you you need
01:02:40
to to perform at your optimal? So if it's arenas, we get a football and we just have a kick around. Um
01:02:46
really? Yeah. Yeah. So we just sort of do keep you ups and you got to do 10 before you go on stage between Oh, okay. So
01:02:51
So me, Kumar, and Pete. Um and then Steve and we'll try. We got to do 10 keepy ups before we go on stage. Can't
01:02:57
really do that if you're doing a small club. Um there's a brilliant comedy club called Top Secret in in London. And um
01:03:05
it's very very small. And before that you I'm literally in an alley that stinks of piss um looking at notes. So,
01:03:12
so it's it's always looking at notes, thinking what you're going to do, sort of trying to be calm to listen to
01:03:20
that inner voice that says, "Hey, you could also do this." And that kind of weird
01:03:26
kind of um funny that just appears from nowhere. There's always the best way of starting a gig. Um,
01:03:34
and that's it really. But there isn't really a psyking up process. I I'll like watch if I'm doing a big show, I'll
01:03:39
watch my friend who's who's supporting me. Um see what get sneak in the back of the theater or the arena and get a feel for them and um and then just go for it.
01:03:50
Why keep you ups? Is that just a tra tradition or is it like a No, it's just it's sort of if you're
01:03:56
there, yeah, there's maybe it's just that weird thing of like, right, I've done 10, I can, you know, and then if
01:04:02
you don't do 10 the first time and it falls, you got to do 20 and if it falls 30. So, do you know what I mean? So, you
01:04:08
have to do it and then it becomes this weird uh like little thing. You just don't want that in the back of your head. You can't do a big gig going, "Shit, man, I only did 24s."
01:04:19
So, superstition. Yeah. like yeah and I just and I kind of like I spend a lot of time
01:04:27
with my tour manager Kumar, the mighty Kumar Kamelagarin um and um just chatting about stuff and
01:04:34
just being kind of loose and sort of yeah just sort of getting in the zone of being silly and and just talking about any old bollocks to try and sort of get
01:04:46
things going or you know it's like if my brother comes on tour with me that's always fun because it's kind of there
01:04:52
there'll just be a bit of a bit of nothing kind of happening and like yeah so I like sort of just hanging out and
01:04:57
chatting talking bollocks and um sort of loosening yourself up really that's kind
01:05:03
of what I do beforehand. This is a very um I don't know why this question came into my head but tends to
01:05:09
be the kind of things I ask on this podcast. What was the lowest moment of your life? What was the lowest moment of my life?
01:05:17
I think when my when my granddad died that was like I was it was yeah it was awful and I was incredibly lucky because I how old was I think I was 36
01:05:31
when granddad died and um he I'd never had anyone in my family um well my cousin Shane had died when I was 18 and um but I'd never been to a
01:05:44
funeral so it was Shane and and granddad So there'd been this huge gap where nobody died and um you know this sort of
01:05:52
beautiful family that I belong to they were all kind of there and my granddad was sort of like unbelievably
01:05:59
special kind of man. He was 4 foot nine and um just funny and warm and ju just like a quintessential granddad. But like he gr he got me into football. So I used
01:06:16
to watch football with granddad and watch match of the day and he'd make me and Daniel toast. You know that thick
01:06:21
white bread and he'd kind of like make us some granddad toast. And he's just a brilliant, brilliant
01:06:31
soul that just was s such a big part of my life that he and they used to come and see us quite a lot and whenever he was there I don't know he was you were just bathed in his love like him and him
01:06:42
and my nan just adored me and I adored them and it was they used to have a poster of of me on their uh on their wall um and they used to and nan used to
01:06:55
keep all the all the reviews I'd get. So, she'd put them up like and it was just that lovely thing. There was some really some lovely reviews and some shitty ones, too. And it was just like, man, why you don't take that? What are
01:07:06
you talking about? But but they and they used to watch me on TV. And I come from a a family where it's inconceivable
01:07:15
that that I could be on TV from from the family that I come from. It's it's you know it's like going to the moon but because nan and grand said we'd watch you on a TV mind we we'd watch it with
01:07:28
the volume down you'd have swear so they would watch me when I was doing good news or I was on mock the week with the
01:07:35
volume down our wrestler on the box and just sort of see me kind of like that and but they
01:07:42
were so through every part of my life I I felt utter love from my nana and my granddad
01:07:48
and they were around forever and and it's it's that thing where I don't know for whatever reason he was
01:08:00
like this sage and my there's a beautiful photo of my cousin Shane who who who died when he was he was 18 and he was on a scrambler motorbike and our
01:08:13
granddad when we were about eight just used to look at that and just go there you go that is the bravest bloody boy you've ever seen in your life. And it
01:08:20
was like sort of a really interesting um story cuz he he had cancer and he died of cancer and he he went on this sort of scrambler and he did this race and he
01:08:37
was he completed it even though he he was really not well at all and and our granddad told that with such pride and
01:08:44
it was this beautiful story and that's what and grandad and you knew Grer told similar stories obviously not as beautiful as that about all of us and and um yeah when he died it was just
01:08:56
this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go Jesus one of the one of the one of the good souls isn't here anymore and yet this is the the fascination of
01:09:09
life I was in Mexico and it happened and my mom rang me up and said granddad's dead I like
01:09:17
just low and Um, literally seconds later there was a there was a Mexican man just going
01:09:27
and it was just like [ __ ] me, the universe is funny, man. So, it was like utter sadness and then
01:09:32
something and it was um yeah, it was just this weird like moment where you're like going [ __ ] really really. Um, so
01:09:44
yeah, that was the that was definitely an unbelievably low moment and yet weirdly became
01:09:52
at his funeral this beautiful moment where you were, like I said at the beginning where you feel privileged to
01:09:59
belong to the blood you belong to. You know, I've never done Who do you think you are? I know who I am. I'm, you know,
01:10:06
I know where I come from and I know my people and I feel proud to belong to those people. Um,
01:10:13
and the funeral of my grandma was just this reminder of the excellence of my family and how proud and how much we all love each other. So from that deep
01:10:26
sadness came this reflection of my granddad and you realize that everyone in this room were there because of his brilliance. So
01:10:37
it was this kind of weirdly bittersweet moment, you know. M and my cousin L um my cousin Stuart wore a leather jacket and looked like [ __ ] love joy and nobody understood and everyone's like
01:10:48
why you wearing a leather jacket? Oh we know we didn't have a suit and we were carrying granddad in the coffin and
01:10:53
Daniel was like nice jackets due and our [ __ ] shoulders start going because it's like you know like oh mate and
01:11:00
everyone's like are they going to laugh and we're like [ __ ] hold it together hold it and then um yeah 6 weeks later
01:11:06
my nan died and uh it was horrific. Six weeks later. Yeah. 6 weeks later. And then we went to
01:11:11
the um went to the funeral again and Stuart rocked up with that same leather jacket and you're like, "Fuck me, man."
01:11:17
And you could see everybody just looking down going, "God, don't laugh. Why is he wearing a [ __ ] leather?" He literally
01:11:22
rocked up like Hasselhoff. You're like, "Put a suit." But it was weirdly funny and you could everyone go, "Fuck, he's
01:11:28
wear [ __ ] leather jacket on Jesus Christ, what's [ __ ] wrong with it, man." Um like it was all flapping and
01:11:34
that. Um, but and I I had to do the eulogy for my granddad as well. And that is something I put deep deep deep deep
01:11:44
time into to make it and I you know and obviously you can't get it right. You can't express what he meant to you. But
01:11:51
um yeah, that was the that was a long answer to the lowest moment. But yeah, they they say um people can pass away from heartbreak. Yeah. is for for your grandmother to die six
01:12:04
weeks following Yeah, I think Yeah, I think they would they would, you know, joined at the hip.
01:12:09
Yeah, they used to just kind of Yeah, yeah, maybe it was that it was just kind of Yeah, it was just but also
01:12:16
there was such constants and I just wasn't I'd never really been exposed to death and it was just this kind of like
01:12:23
to for it to arrive quite late in your life. It was just a real like whoa. Yeah. And then you lo then and then
01:12:29
you've suddenly lost your nan and your granddad who would kind of like we we got like my nana is particularly just
01:12:36
such a lovely she's got proper sort of blue gray owly eyes you know and she's always started tucking her sort of shirt down and she just come in and just tell you little she goes just weird little
01:12:48
[ __ ] so I remember doing my dissertation she was staying around her house and she's like what are you doing I said I'm doing a a um I'm doing my dissertation
01:12:55
now and she said what about I said it was about whether it's right or wrong to advertise to children.
01:13:02
And my nan went it's not like that. I kind of went, "Well, I got to do 10,000 words." So, you know, it's not though, is it? Come on, come and have your tea. I was like, I can't just put it's not
01:13:14
Nancy Veil. I got to do this. But she was very strange. We used to make flapjacks together as kids as when I was
01:13:20
a kid. And she was obviously manan, but um we didn't like flapjacks. And but we used to just make them as a thing and then put them in the bin. [ __ ] weird. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And
01:13:34
the reason we kept doing it is because it really annoyed my mom because she's like, "What are you doing? Jesus Christ,
01:13:39
what's wrong with you?" And then she would get the flapjacks out the bin. And that was funny watching my mom eat
01:13:45
flapjacks from a bin. I got a weird family, man. But but um yeah, those were the uh I wonder if she did die from heartache. I don't know. I mean she you know they weren't particularly well
01:13:58
towards the end of their life as well. They sort of had uh kind of you know the certainly the beginnings of dementia. So
01:14:06
um yeah it was kind of you know it's that horrible thing where yeah I don't know it's just kind of yuck and it you know. How about you? What was the lowest moment in your life? Am I
01:14:19
allowed to ask? Yeah. Um the lowest moment of my life. Good question. Is it shitty to ask you? No, it's No, like if if I can ask someone else, they have to ask me. I don't even It's a really interesting
01:14:33
question. Um I think it would probably be ah no, I know when it is. Well, it's the one that kind of stands out to me as really sucking. So my my grandmother dying was
01:14:45
one of them, but I wasn't close to her, right? So it was just actually seeing my dad upset, seeing your like dad cry for the
01:14:50
first time was a very like Yeah. That isn't that a If you Have you got a strong dad? Yeah. Strong. Yeah. Never seen him be
01:14:56
emotional at all. Yeah. That's the weirdest thing, isn't it? Quiet, passive, just and then, you know, to see him cry is
01:15:02
Yeah. That's very difficult to understand as a kid. And then the other one is actually when my dad called me into his bedroom and
01:15:10
told me he didn't love my mom. Oh wow. And that they were going to get a divorce. And they didn't get a divorce. They're still together now. But at
01:15:16
seven, I think I was when he said that to me, it was like earth like foundation shattering information that I couldn't I
01:15:23
don't know why I always remember that. I don't know. I always recall that when you know it's like I could never forget
01:15:29
that moment in my life. What do you meant to do with that at seven? [ __ ] exactly like
01:15:34
especially when it doesn't even happen. But um their relationship for me was so toxic as a kid that I actually got to a
01:15:40
point later where I'd come to terms with the illusion being burst that your parents actually might not stick
01:15:45
together and then I was actually willing them to get a divorce because they were just screaming at each other too much. So
01:15:50
I think that's probably that's for some reason those two moments came to mind. Um if I told you that you could never
01:15:56
write a joke again and you could never perform again. Yeah. What would happen to you? What
01:16:02
I don't know. It's I think you'd go back to you I'd end up being what I was when I was younger of just desperately trying to make people laugh and and just sort of I'd just be a
01:16:18
a bit of a nuisance at Tesco. Do you know what I mean? When you kind of get in your shop, you're like, "Are you
01:16:23
right? I was looking at the sperm donor the other day. Oh yeah, she live 6'4." Like, you know what I mean? It's kind of, you know, so I think why I don't know. I just like making
01:16:34
people laugh. I like I like be I like it makes me feel good and it it um Yeah, it just makes me feel good. I I kind of It's like I say, it feels like
01:16:46
you're giving them a socially accepted orgasm every time they laugh. So, you're literally going going around making
01:16:53
people come. Why don't Tesco mean Imagine making someone come in Tesco? But why? Why don't I? Every little help. Here we go.
01:17:04
But why don't That's the new advert for Christmas. Um, sorry. Go on. Carry on. What were you going to say?
01:17:11
But why don't why do you have that that need and I like I don't. So if you said to me I could never write a joke again
01:17:17
or I could never, you know, perform comedy again. I would fine like my life would be
01:17:22
unchanged. But for you, yours would be it'd be like an irritant. And like what's what's the difference? Well, it's the same as you. like saying,
01:17:29
you know, you can't you can't have your own business. Yeah. You got to So, you've got to work for somebody else.
01:17:36
So, how how does that how does that feel? For me, it's it's a definite loss of purpose. For me, it's like a huge loss
01:17:42
of purpose. Um, not so much working for someone else, but not being able to like build Yeah. do what I do professionally. It
01:17:48
would be this huge sense of like loss of purpose. I might move on to like doing shows or like just writing books all the time or something else. But from a com
01:17:59
comedic perspective, it's like what you're doing is like very reliant on feedback of sorts.
01:18:05
So I'm wondering where that's like coming from is that you know we kind of touched on it earlier in the conversation. It's just
01:18:12
yeah it's been s it's been such a clear consistent coping mechanism in the toughest moments of your life evidently
01:18:18
um that it makes me ponder how you would cope without that coping mechanism dealing with the reality of
01:18:25
life you yeah but I think that's why I sort of said laughter is the lubricant that makes life liveable life is life is
01:18:31
tough and laughter provides restbite um for me and it and and that's and It's so deeply human.
01:18:42
Everyone has has irrespective of whether you have a an easy blessed life, everyone has had moments of trials and tribulations and laughter is just a it's
01:18:53
a it's a thing that soothes us and I I find it particularly soothing that you take the the sting out of pain by just making
01:19:04
making it funny. Do you know what I mean? And it's kind of it just works for me. I just find laughing
01:19:11
or making people laugh just the best because you in in the moment of laughter you're lost. You are not of this realm.
01:19:18
You you're you're kind of in this p white noise space. Um and it's good. It's it's a it's a good place to be. Escapism almost exactly.
01:19:29
Yeah. But but Exactly. You see, and then you come back to kind of reality and you're you're a little bit more
01:19:35
reconfigured or you it lightens the load a bit, you know, and and and I get a deep sense of satisfa satisfaction from making people laugh. So, and you're
01:19:48
right, it is tied up in them. You know, it's very needy. That's absolutely true. But then,
01:19:54
you know, I'm 41 now and I kind of know who I am. I'm I'm kind of needy. most comics are because I've been asked to
01:20:01
write sort of my autobiography quite a few times and it's like I just don't feel like sitting and entertaining myself. Um
01:20:14
whereas when you're writing standup, you're writing it for an audience so you can perform or you're making notes and
01:20:20
you go, "Hey, I'll take that on stage and I'll kind of riff it out and figure it out with them." Whereas a book to me
01:20:26
just feels like it would be I don't think I've got the skills to sit down and try and
01:20:34
entertain myself and then eventually entertain people through the book. Do you know what I Like I did a thing last year where we went to Australia and
01:20:44
New Zealand uh during the pandemic um because we were doing some gigs out there and we stayed in a hotel for two weeks and we made a standup show that
01:20:53
blended me meeting people alongside standup and it was it was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done. We met these incredible women in New Zealand. There's a thing called the
01:21:04
coffin club. And what they do is, I didn't know this. Turns out um uh dying is really expensive and coffins are really pricey. And what these retired
01:21:17
pensioners do, they make cheap coffins and they kind of sell them for like, you know, 300 bucks, really kind of low, don't make any profit. So these
01:21:28
beautiful funeral elves and they make their own coffins as well um just for as a bit of fun. And I met this lady and she'd made three coffins for herself and I was like, "How comes you made three?" He's like, "I just keep putting on
01:21:40
weight." And and it was so touching and peculiar and and then we went into another room and there were little baby coffins, tiny tiny. And it's one of those things that
01:21:52
you I hope nobody ever sees that. And I was like, "How?" And people often say, "Oh, comedy, hardest job in the world."
01:21:58
Can you imagine making a coffin for a baby? It blew my mind. And I looked at this twinkly eyed lady. I was like, "How
01:22:04
do you do that? How do you get yourself in a place to to make something that sad? And she kind of looked at me and just went, I do it so no one else has to. And it was so beautiful. And for me,
01:22:19
I I loved being able to tell that story through standup with her on the show. And I don't know if I have the skills to tell that story
01:22:33
um through words on a page. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I'm sort of aware of a
01:22:40
an ability I have as a communicator to make a story like that deeply human. I could tell that in front of anybody and it gets to their heart. It's so pure. And there's so many stories out there
01:22:51
like that that the trying to find those examples of magnificence um I find endlessly interesting. But you don't find them if you sat down writing
01:23:03
a book. You got to get out there and you you you've kind of got to put yourself in peculiar situations. I met a lady that
01:23:09
goes Yahi hunting. Turns out there's a Yahi is a big 8 foot sort of like abominable snowman in Australia. Uh that
01:23:17
he lives just outside Brisbane. She was absolutely wonderful, right? You know, mad as a box of frogs, but beautiful.
01:23:23
And she was like, "Yeah, what we do? Put some cigarettes out and some beer. That should lure him in." Like, so she puts
01:23:29
this big jacket on me and she goes, "Yeah, and you might want to make the mating noise." And I'm like, "What? How
01:23:34
does that go?" And she's like sort of like I'm kind of inching in the field going
01:23:39
and she's like, "Yeah, you're doing really well." And then I p panic because I start going, "What if this is real?"
01:23:47
And suddenly this eight-foot bloke comes along and [ __ ] me like that and and I'm
01:23:52
sort of dragged off and you're like and and then it was so and I was telling her this and we're laughing and it's funny
01:23:58
that that again those stories I love trying to find those stories. So I feel like I don't have enough stories yet to sit down and tell them all.
01:24:10
And the great thing about standup, you can rotate your stories. You go, "Hey, do you want to hear this? Hey, do you want to hear that?" you know, or things
01:24:16
can happen from nowhere. My brother is an ex like we were we were having a conversation with a friend of mine recently and from nowhere my brother goes, "Uh, what?" Cuz he was, this bloke
01:24:27
was talking about his friend. He goes, "Yeah, he's a vet." My brother goes, "Yeah, to be a vet, you got to shoot a can in the face." And I'm like, "What's
01:24:33
he talking about?" He goes, "Yeah, it's the only way you can be a vet if you shot a cow in the face." I said, "Is it what?" So they do six years of school
01:24:40
and then right at the end they give him a Smith and Wesson and they blast him in the face and he's like, "Well, don't give him that you thick fuck." They give
01:24:46
him a bolt gun, not going to shoot him with a rifle. [ __ ] [ __ ] Like that. So we're having this kind of conversation and I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Goes, "True. Ke told me." Oh, KZ told Yeah, he knows. Knows a
01:24:57
vet. Shot him in the face. So like that. Now, weirdly, a month later, I'm doing a gig in Leicester. There's a guy chatting
01:25:03
away and he's he's a he's a vet. And I go, "Listen, I got to ask, did they make you shoot cows in the face?" And he goes, "Yeah, yeah, we have to." It's one of the things the [ __ ] was right. So I
01:25:14
ring my brother up in the middle of this gig. There's 2,000 people there. I ring him up and I'm like, put him on speaker
01:25:20
on the phone. I go, "You're right." He goes, "Yeah, what?" And I go, "I'm just in Leicester. I'm at a gig. Are you?"
01:25:25
And I go, "Um, yeah, you know that thing you were saying about cow and vets?" "Yeah, it turns out you were right." And
01:25:31
he went, "Yeah, I know." And he goes, "Listen, I've got to I'm watching Vigil like that [ __ ] off. But that was the
01:25:39
correct story for that night is is my point that that that sometimes and it was so hilarious in that moment. It couldn't have been more perfect. And then all the ushers that work there
01:25:51
and go that was planned right. But it was but it only came about because me and my brother were with friends of mine
01:25:57
in Exat. He told a man's story. I had an argument with him. We all laughed cuz my
01:26:03
brother was talking [ __ ] what's he on about? A month later, I meet, you know, a vet. He
01:26:08
agrees with my brother and um and we have a moment of of magic. And it's and it's the funny thing that that's all anyone would remember from that show. Um and I I I don't have the
01:26:21
skills to do that through sitting on on my own. I would be too excited to tell people the story. Quick one. As you probably know by now, I'm trying to make my life a little bit more sustainable.
01:26:33
And I consider myself to be on a bit of a sustainability journey in the same way that I'm on a health journey. And it's a
01:26:38
privilege to be able to share that with all of you. And you you all know if you've listened to the last podcast that I traded in my Range Rover Sport in for
01:26:44
an electric bicycle, which is now my only vehicle. And next year hopefully I'll have my electric car 2 if Tesla
01:26:50
hurry up with a Cybertruck. And that's where my energy comes into my life and my sort of sustainability journey. It
01:26:56
makes your life if you are on that sustainability journey 10 times easier. This is one of their, if you can't see
01:27:02
this, I'm holding it in my hand. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple, this is one of their renewable energy products. If you're watching on YouTube,
01:27:08
you'll you'll you'll see this. This is called the Harvey. It's this very clever little device that allows the Zappy and
01:27:13
the Eddi, which I've talked about before on this podcast, to be installed into your home without hard wiring or without
01:27:19
batteries or without those um god-awful transformers that a lot of people have in their house. It's basically a tiny
01:27:25
device that's going to save you both time and money. And for someone like me who doesn't have loads of time on our
01:27:31
hands, it's a real lifesaver. If you're looking to make a conscious switch and you need a quick fix that's going to
01:27:37
save you a load of time, then head over to my energy.com to see this product and
01:27:43
many, many more. So, Patrice Evra, yes. Who sat there before Jimmy Car said one day his girlfriend turned to him and was like, "Are you happy?" And he and at first he like resisted that question cuz
01:27:54
it makes people feel a little bit uncomfortable. But um yeah, are you happy? Um yeah, at this moment, yeah, I've really
01:28:04
enjoyed this chat like deeply and um I feel pumped up and energized. So yeah, but it's back to what I'm saying. I'm kind of I need the energy of others to
01:28:18
make me happy. You referred when I asked that question, you referred to this moment as if happiness was more of a
01:28:24
mood in your view versus then like a long-lasting state. If we say if we were to say that it was
01:28:30
a state, a long-lasting sort of the baseline, would you say you're happy? Um, yeah. I I'd say I have more I have more
01:28:42
moments of happiness than sadness. And then so but but I'm in a state of flux with that. like, you know, I can be super low and super uh
01:28:53
sort of depressed about, oh, [ __ ] hell, the jokes are [ __ ] this week in the show.
01:29:00
God, I've got I haven't got the stuff, you know what I mean? So, I kind of I can let things get on top of me. Um, but
01:29:06
I have more moments of happiness than sadness, I think. Have you ever experienced what they call
01:29:11
like depression, like clinical depression? Um, in your view? I don't know. I don't
01:29:18
think so. Um I, you know, I have moments of like where you can't, you know, but you're sort of aware you need to shift it, but I'm very much a right get on the treadmill, lift
01:29:31
some weights. Um kind of u do something kind of a guy. I'm restless, you know. Um but uh yeah, I've never been, you know, diagnosed or anything
01:29:43
like that, but uh but yeah, how about you? You happy? It's such a heavy question. It's a really heavy question. I remember
01:29:49
the first time my uh [ __ ] Patrice Evra. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. What an interesting, fascinating bloke
01:29:55
he is as well. Criy remarkable, remarkable guy. Am I happy? Um I remember the first time
01:30:01
I was asked it and it felt really uncomfortable and I felt defensive about the question. Yeah. My PA, who was also my girlfriend at the
01:30:06
time, many years a long story. We won't go into that. Um she asked me in the car one day. She was like, "Are you happy?"
01:30:13
I was like, "How dare you?" I think that's my No, of course not. But that's I think like my ego inside my chimp
01:30:18
brain probably was like how [ __ ] d like of course I am. Um I believe so. Yeah, I believe so. Um and
01:30:26
one of the things that I has helped me a lot is I'm very obsessed with gratitude and like constantly reminding myself of
01:30:34
like how unbelievably fortunate I am to be one of the free ones. And what I mean by that is like financially free, free
01:30:41
to do what I choose to most days. Um, of course I have days where it sucks and my
01:30:46
mood's shitty and like I'm irritable and I'm a bit of an [ __ ] to be around, but um I feel I feel somewhat content um
01:30:55
despite my relentless uh excruciating ambition. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good answer.
01:31:02
I'll take that one. Okay. Your manager said you're you're the hardest working comic he's he's ever
01:31:07
met, right? Yeah. Well, I just like is that toxic people in this in our society at the moment of there's this kind of stigma around people that work too hard that it's you know toxic
01:31:18
productivity or Yeah. But it's it's sort of you know you you work at something you love. So it's
01:31:24
kind of like you know it's it's sort of those moments of like you you just lose yourself in it. It's like I imagine it's the same with when
01:31:36
Picasso was painting. Do you know what I mean? He was just probably like, "This is
01:31:42
fun." Like, do you know what I mean? Like I you know, imagine his I'm not comparing myself to Picasso. I'm using him as an example of just sort of
01:31:48
imagine his his manager going, "You need to [ __ ] relax, mate." Do you know what I mean? The Sistines Chapel. But
01:31:54
it's just I don't know. I just I I love it. And I don't um I don't mind working hard. It's all And it's also It's not It's not working in the in the true sense like you just said, how fortunate
01:32:07
to be one of the free ones. What? Like it's ridiculous. Like I'm I write the t I write stand up on my own, but my do I
01:32:13
do my TV show and I write it with um five people and um we get to write jokes. That is our job. There's an unbelievably privileged job to be able
01:32:26
to sit around and think of funny things for people and that can be stressful. But there are people working in um in jobs that they
01:32:38
don't like that would kill for that opportunity. So you're right, you need those moments to kind of snap yourself
01:32:45
out of your funk and um and remember that you're getting paid to do a hobby ultimately, you know, in my case. Um and in mine like this is
01:32:57
Yeah, totally. But but but but my point being it's sort of like there's no there's nothing wrong with having low moments and everyone does and it feels like the world is better
01:33:12
now in terms of being able to talk about them. But you also I think if you come from a
01:33:18
certain background you don't want to [ __ ] and moan about yourself and kind of say that you're having a tough time or whatever. But if you're lucky enough
01:33:25
to have friends that you can talk to um or things like this or a therapist or whatever, it just m it makes the pursuit of happiness a lot easier. I think cuz I think that is pos maybe that's what
01:33:38
happiness is. It's about talking for long enough to realize what you have. Whether that is a loving relationship, whether it's a job you love, whether it's a hobby you adore,
01:33:51
but there there will always be sort of shimmering lights of hope in in the misery. But sometimes somebody has to help you find them, I think. Do you know what I mean? Because I think it's very
01:34:04
difficult to sit within yourself and go, "Yeah, I can see everything's fine." Sometimes you need a little bit of help to kind of remind you of how lucky you
01:34:11
are. Your upcoming Netflix special, you called it Lubricant. I now know why. Yeah. Yeah.
01:34:16
But tell me what we can expect from this special and and how it was conceived and what makes it, you know, I guess worth
01:34:23
watching. Wow. Um, it is the best stories and jokes that I've written in the last two years from traveling around
01:34:35
the world. I did a a a tour that was called Restbite and I kind of put together all the best
01:34:43
bits about kind of conspiracy theories and uh uh COVID and leadership and madness in the world and I sort of spludged it all together and the
01:35:01
you never quite know what it is until you sort of step away from it and I think it's actually a love letter to
01:35:06
laughter. That's what the show is. And it's the the full hour is about the the importance of of giggling and of being silly and
01:35:19
how deeply human it is and and it should be treasured. There's a bit in the in the special where I I was chatting about, you know, when you hear
01:35:31
somebody play a musical instrument and you're envious of the notes they're making. It strikes me that laughter is a
01:35:38
musical instrument that any one of us can play and now is not the time to put down our
01:35:45
[ __ ] trumpets. And it that's what if that's the show really. It's about the importance of
01:35:51
laughter and and and the role it plays in which we do life. Um, and it's lots of funny stories that are kind of all about that really. You talked about how as a comedian you have to kind of have this like
01:36:04
self-evolution. Uhhuh. What what evolution in the comedian that you are in this special lubricant
01:36:12
have have you observed in yourself? um I'm slower and I'm um more thoughtful and I try and make it more interesting for people sat at home than
01:36:24
in the room. I think previously I've been a bit too kind of high octane and I'm trying to kind of make it
01:36:30
pleasurable for people at home so they can sit and enjoy it because that's how it ultimately is consumed. I have a
01:36:37
fascination with anger and I have a fascination with with beauty. I don't like so I find anger strange and I find
01:36:46
beauty beguiling and that is only getting deeper and deeper. So for example that story about the ladies in
01:36:52
the coffins that isn't in this show but it's it's somewhere deep in me and I think that will come out in another show. So, it's sort of the evolution as a comedian for me is that I want the
01:37:05
next special and the next tour that I do to be deeply human and I want it to be this in in in in in the best sense a place where you can [ __ ] nod with me
01:37:17
and laugh with me and feel like this connection with people next to you. And I think that comes through the ex through through exploring how [ __ ]
01:37:28
weird and silly we all are. I think I think the world's taking itself very seriously at the moment. And um there's so much humor in it. I think there's so
01:37:40
much humor in the on the edges on in the in the shades of serious stuff. Do you know what I mean?
01:37:46
I kind of find it uh yeah that's kind of what that's where it feels like my evolution is that I'm
01:37:53
trying to kind of I try and talk about you know I quite like being able to talk about serious stuff for example you know we you know talk about cancel culture or woke like the amount of times you hear
01:38:04
the word woke in newspapers at the minute it's because it just sells it sells papers man and it's kind of like
01:38:11
hey have you seen what they've done you you can't say the word farts and and boobies and ass in scrabble That's a
01:38:17
story in the newspaper and it was like furious as woke Scrabble bosses. No one's furious about Scrabble. No one's
01:38:23
like just and even if they were doing that, how are they going to police it? No one's going to, you know, break into
01:38:28
your house and go just put [ __ ] on a triple letter. They're not going to do that. So I find that mechanism really
01:38:36
interesting at the moment that that that you go okay clearly there's money to be made in kind of you won't [ __ ]
01:38:43
believe what they've done now that in in in that energy but but also recognizing
01:38:48
that it's just a trick fake outrage. It's fake outrage and it's kind of it's the what next brigade and I but I find
01:38:54
that really interesting. That was like Pierce Morgan's whole thing for a while on TV. It was like they've changed toilets to unisex
01:39:01
[ __ ] Yeah. but because it it sort of like it just it works. It's easy. It's click and
01:39:07
then you and you're there. But it's kind of not it's just not nourishing. And there is actually a way of of of making
01:39:14
the people that are that succumb to that and the people that think it's [ __ ] you can bring them together through
01:39:20
really piss funny stories. Um or true like that story about the coffin and the the lady
01:39:26
doesn't doesn't matter your political orientation, doesn't matter your gender, whatever.
01:39:31
That's a deeply funny human story. And like you look at someone like Billy Connelly like like some of his bits are
01:39:39
so beautiful and funny or George Carlin that that that they're they're majestic and and you're kind of lost and I think there's a real value to to humor and it's it's often overlooked
01:39:52
because it is silly and it is kind of fart piss [ __ ] [ __ ] you know what I mean? It's kind of you know what I mean?
01:39:59
It's fingers and ears and Mhm. Yeah. But it it it's it's a release and it's kind of it's a deeply important thing. Laughter deeply deeply important. And if we
01:40:10
didn't have it, you know, like I think it's only like dolphins and rats are the only animals that laugh. I don't know
01:40:17
how scientists found that out. Oh, no. I do actually. They tickled the rat's bellies with a pencil. This is
01:40:23
presumably precoid. Do you know what I mean? Imagine that if it's just kind of vaccine. I'm busy just
01:40:28
trying to trying to get this rat to giggle. But um but yeah, so that's lubricant. That's is it December 14th? December the 14th comes out and it was restbite. Um that's it's the it was the
01:40:40
show restbite and then right at the last minute I decided to call it lubricant. Uh but that becomes a I mean we all know
01:40:48
now listening to this why it's called that but it's kind of 40 minutes in you go all right there might be some furious perverts
01:40:56
who are kind of going this is where's there's absolutely nothing here about like about Vaseline
01:41:02
about KY jelly this is it's bereft of any lubricational I hope someone writes in leaves a review
01:41:09
this is not what you think it is it's absolutely disgusting I was [ __ ] outraged and then you've got until the wheels
01:41:14
come off as well which is documentary. So yeah, so until the wheels come off is a documentary about making a standup
01:41:21
special throughout the co pandemic. So yeah, it was kind of uh yeah, sort of cameras followed us
01:41:27
around and tried to, you know, like we did gigs in football stadiums and car parks and
01:41:33
crazy. Yeah, it was brilliant. Nuts. But we did uh Ashton Gate uh which is the home of Bristol City. Um and we had to get 2,000
01:41:41
people in a uh 10,000 seater stand. They all had to be spread out and it was one
01:41:47
of the weirdest gigs I've ever done, but it's one of the best. And that comes out on the same day. So the the the dock is on the same day
01:41:54
as the special. So yeah. Wow. Yeah. We have one I'm I'm excited for both. I actually did get the chance to watch the
01:42:00
trailer. All right. And it was hilarious. And it's um I'm particularly excited to see someone with your smarts and both comedic genius and
01:42:07
intellect take on recent times. Does that make sense? I'm most excited about and uh so really really looking forward
01:42:14
to that on December 14th. We have a a long-standing tradition on this podcast where the previous guest as I mentioned
01:42:20
writes a question for the next guest. So Patrice wrote, "Are you happy?" Because that was the question that stumbled upon. I don't I'm not going to say who the
01:42:26
person was that's written this for you. Okay. But I'm going to tell you what the um the question is. Um,
01:42:32
what three things would you give to the world you can only answer with single words to make it happier?
01:42:39
Jesus. Not that. Um, that's one. What three things would I give to the world to make it happier? You can only answer with one one words answers.
01:42:50
I mean, this is a real reverse Aladdin moment, isn't it? Um, a fixed climate. You know that's two words but you know
01:43:02
fine fine that's the first thing technology that stops mental health. So you zap them. Okay then they're fine. It's a sort of a wand
01:43:14
you wave at them. Mental health wand. Yeah. So yeah a mental a mental Yeah. So that fixed climate mental health wand
01:43:21
and food. Food. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like fixed climate, mental health wand, food end starvation. And starvation. It will end starvation.
01:43:34
Yes. Right. And starvation. No. No. I was going to say [ __ ] me. I give I take now. I'm going to ask you to
01:43:40
do the same. I But before I do that, I just want to say a huge thank you for coming today cuz I've watched you on screen for many, many, many a years. I
01:43:46
find you hysterical. But also I I love this opportunity to get to know a side of you that I wouldn't have ordinarily seen on screen because of the the way that you know the format of TV and a
01:43:57
depth in you and you're just again you're super smart, super introspective. You're a genius clearly and um you're
01:44:03
doing a service to the world which is clearly so unbelievably selfless in cheering people up at a time when they
01:44:08
really need it that I feel like the comedians amongst us who are lubricating us through these hard times are national
01:44:14
treasures at the moment. So thank you. Oh mate, what a sweet thing. I need you to come home and um say that whenever I'm having problems with my wife.
01:44:20
We'll send you the audio so you could do that. But it's time to write a question.
01:44:38
[Music]