00:00:00
The vitamin world is giving the wrong advice. For instance, if you do not know what you're doing with them, they're
00:00:06
just as dangerous as any drug you could put in your mouth. The next thing is supplementing with vitamin D is not the
00:00:11
same as being outdoors [music] because we absorb it through our skin. But what we've been told is don't ever
00:00:16
let the sun touch your skin. And another example is when we're deficient in this
00:00:21
vitamin, our brain actually forgets how to sleep. And I know that because I'm a neurologist and I wanted to tell the
00:00:28
world about what my patients and I had and discovered together about making sleep better. And billions around the
00:00:34
world have a sleep problem, but no one's treating it. And the usual sleep treatment is behavioral like blackout
00:00:40
curtains, go to bed at the same time. But that is not something that's helped the people who wind up with me. They've
00:00:46
tried all that already. And I've taken care of 28-year-olds who just had a stroke.
00:00:50
>> 28, sorry, >> 28-year-olds. We associate stroke with being old and having diabetes and
00:00:56
hypertension and heart disease. No. So then I did a whole bunch of sleep studies because we found some exciting
00:01:01
things [music] by accident that turn out to have to do with vitamin deficiencies
00:01:06
and deficiencies that have developed from being indoors too much. [music] And we're starting to feel the effects of
00:01:11
that like obesity. But there there are no obese squirrels in my backyard. The only obese animals are cats and dogs
00:01:17
[music] that we keep inside. And then we found out most of the sleep disorders are really linked to the gut the
00:01:22
microbiome and we could go into that but one of the interesting thing I learned was vitamin D is a hormone. There was a
00:01:28
mistake made in calling it a vitamin. >> Well, I'm very curious to learn about all of this and also you've come up with
00:01:33
this protocol called the right sleep protocol. Can you walk me through it? >> Absolutely. Here's the first part of it.
00:01:39
So, >> this is super interesting to me. My team given me this report to show me how many
00:01:45
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00:01:50
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00:01:55
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00:01:59
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00:02:05
team, everyone here to keep this show free, to keep it improving year over year and week over week, it is just to
00:02:11
hit that subscribe button and to double check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
00:02:16
you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make sure every single week, every single month, we fight harder and harder
00:02:21
and harder and harder to bring you the guests and conversations that you want to hear. I've stayed true to that
00:02:25
promise since the very beginning of the D ofio, and I will not let you down. Please help us. Really appreciate it.
00:02:31
Let's get on with the show. Dr. Nasha Gmanac for the people that have just clicked on this conversation
00:02:41
because they like the title, they're interested in the subject matter, what are what are they going to get from
00:02:46
sitting with us and listening to us? How is their life going to improve? >> A completely unique and new way to look
00:02:52
at why they are not sleeping well or why they have medical problems. I hope they
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will come away with the impression that I want to find out if my brain chemistry
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is normal or not normal for sleep. >> And you were a clinical assistant at professor of neurology at Stanford
00:03:10
University Hospital and also you did a neurology residency at Harvard Medical School.
00:03:14
>> Yes. I grew up in California. I became a biochemist and then I wound up being
00:03:19
interested in medicine because biochemistry is being applied to humans in medicine. So I became a physician and
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then I went into neurology and I'm a neurologist and then by accident somebody insisted that they wanted a
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sleep study and this was in 2004 now. >> So you became you were a neurologist, you became a doctor and then you fell in
00:03:40
love with sleep. >> Yes. >> How many patients have you worked with on the subject matter of sleep? What's
00:03:48
the wide range of symptoms that they were experiencing and problems that they had just to get a sort of context on the
00:03:55
variety and broadness of your experience? >> Probably 200. Since leaving neurology
00:04:01
practice, I started a online business where I became a sleep coach. I'm estimating that I have affected another
00:04:09
5 to 6,000 people. And that's because I have a a workbook that we're going to talk about. I have set out a series of
00:04:16
steps that you should do and that those steps are based on brain chemistry >> not on you do it wrong which is what is
00:04:25
all over the internet. You are just doing it wrong. The usual sleep treatment is behavioral
00:04:32
>> blackout curtains, white noise, go to bed at the same time, recognize your bedroom as a quiet place
00:04:40
for sleep, etc. That is not something that's helped the people who wind up with me. They've
00:04:47
tried all that. They've tried everything. So what are the range of symptoms? The first experience was with women who
00:04:56
had headache. One of my patients said, "These drugs you're giving me haven't worked. I want a sleep study." She had
00:05:04
sleep apnnea. She was young and thin. She did not look like a fat older male with a fat tongue, which is what we were
00:05:12
being sold at that time. The people with sleep apnnea have a fat tongue. It gets
00:05:16
in the air a airway and they need to wear one of these things over their face at night that blows air up their nose.
00:05:25
She put on the CPAP device. She came back two months later. Her headaches were gone. She'd had a daily headache
00:05:31
for like five years. >> So it worked. >> Yes. And I was like, well, no, there's no way because headaches are really a
00:05:42
brain stem function problem. I have this whole construct in my mind and it's a biochemical problem. So, I think maybe
00:05:49
it's allowing her to stay in deep sleep longer and she's making the chemicals that I'm
00:05:56
focusing on that allow her head pain switch to go into the off position, which is where it's supposed to be. It's
00:06:03
supposed to be off until somebody hits you in the head and then it turns on. Hers is just turning on spontaneously
00:06:08
all the time. So then I did a whole bunch of sleep studies in young healthy females who had daily headache. They
00:06:15
would frequently say something like, "I wake up at 3:00 a.m. and I can't go back
00:06:18
to sleep. I wake up at 3:00 a.m. and my sleep is lighter after that. I wake up at 3:00 a.m. with a headache." And then
00:06:26
I have, let's say, as an example, a little Mexican lady who comes in from northern Mexico. She's now living in
00:06:33
Texas with her kids. She had never had headaches until she moved up and she's living with one of her grown kids and
00:06:38
she's coming to see me for headaches. We happen to have a a beach house in Mexico
00:06:43
for a period of about 14 years. So I would go down there and I would think, what's going to happen to these people
00:06:48
that have sleep apnnea who don't have any electricity and they're living in palapas that are made of sticks with a
00:06:53
thatch roof. They're still doing the same thing that they were doing 2,000 4,000 years ago. And you can't tell if
00:07:01
the little vetsitos, the little old people are 60 years old or 80. They might be 90. They're not fat. They're
00:07:09
not tired. They're great grandfathers. I begin to realize this is about living outside. Humans were meant to live
00:07:18
outdoors like every other animal. We have decided that we are special, but we're not special. We're our
00:07:24
biochemistry is like every other animal. Okay. So, these two these inputs are coming all at the same time. And I'm
00:07:30
puzzling over these sleep studies. That first gal had sleep apnnea, but most of the women that I sent for those studies,
00:07:37
they did not have sleep apnnea or come back on the front page would say no significant apnea. There was a
00:07:42
significant score. How many times do you stop breathing during the night? And then the next part is what do they have
00:07:50
that's wrong with them? That came about a year and a half later when the pulmonologist says, "I don't know if
00:07:56
you've noticed this, but your population has a really unusual finding. Most of them have delayed rapid eye movement
00:08:03
sleep, no rapid eye movement sleep, or they have rapid eye movement sleep apnea, meaning they only stop breathing
00:08:12
in rapid eye movement sleep. >> What's rapid eye movement sleep? >> So, this is called a hypnogog.
00:08:18
And on this bottom axis is time. On this axis is a representation of what phase of sleep you are in. And it turns
00:08:30
out that when we enter sleep, we go through what we call two lighter stages of sleep. The first phase that we enter
00:08:38
is here it's wake. Couple of times this person woke may not even be aware that they woke up went
00:08:46
back to sleep. But we enter sleep in light sleep one and light sleep two. These are called that because when the
00:08:52
sleep experts started studying this in 1970, that's relatively recently. You could easily awaken someone out of these
00:09:00
phases. Okay? And it has a certain brainwave pattern generates. And then they go into a phase that's called deep
00:09:08
sleep or slowwave sleep. Everyone who has a sleep tracker device which is very common these days is now becoming
00:09:17
familiar with I have this much deep sleep. I have this much rapid eye movement sleep. Deep sleep is really in
00:09:24
the sleep industry called slowwave sleep because the brain waves are these slow big pattern.
00:09:32
We always go through a couple of light sleep phases and then we go into rapid eye movement sleep and then we go
00:09:41
through light sleep phases and then we go to deep sleep. Now the pivotal question that I asked the pulmonologist
00:09:49
why would my patient have stop breathing that's what apnea means. Why would they
00:09:55
stop breathing only in REM sleep? I thought this was an anatomic problem. And he said, 'Well, we get the most
00:10:02
paralyzed of all in REM sleep.' And I went, paralyzed? Holy crap. Do you mean I'm I'm paralyzed while I'm
00:10:12
in bed? What if I stop breathing? What if my brain doesn't ever not like unparalyze me? That's terrifying.
00:10:21
And it turns out every animal, including fruit flies who we're doing sleep studies on, get paralyzed in sleep. We
00:10:31
get the most paralyzed in rapid eye movement sleep. When this part needs to get repaired,
00:10:38
it gets paralyzed, too. That means you have to have an anatomy that stays where the tube that you're trying to breathe
00:10:44
through stays open while you are unconscious and trying to repair everything in this
00:10:53
area. And I want to pull out the brain to let you know where this is happening and why it's so important. This part
00:11:01
that's white is called the brain stem. This part is actually fully in control when you are asleep. There's a little
00:11:09
switch up here that goes boop. Stephen, you're not conscious anymore. The brain is still extremely active. In fact, the
00:11:18
waveforms that they record from up here look the same in rapid eye movement sleep as they do in wake, suggesting
00:11:27
that all sorts of things are happening. Like you wake up abruptly because some a
00:11:31
noise happens and you're in the middle of a dream. You're traveling. You're flying. You've you've got huge colors
00:11:37
going on. Your brain is extremely active during this time, but you're not aware of it. And this part right here, it is
00:11:47
running your heart rate, your blood pressure. It is paralyzed you. This is where the autonomic nervous system comes
00:11:55
in. The sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system are centered right here. They are meant to
00:12:03
be the automatic driver of all the processes that you use during the day and they run sleep.
00:12:13
This process that we're talking about here is fully run by the brain stem. >> So the sort of sleepwake cycles.
00:12:23
>> Exactly. The sympathetic is called fight flight. The other one the parasympathetic is called rest and
00:12:30
digest. It also is experienced as a state of calm. Okay. It is also what happens when
00:12:38
we have an orgasm. There are things that are happening in the brain stem that feed back to why do they fall asleep?
00:12:44
Why do the guys fall asleep on top of her? Probably because it actually might increase the likelihood of
00:12:52
fertilization. Maybe it has a survival risk. These are all unconscious things that we
00:12:59
don't we aren't trained to connect together. But once you get into the parasympathetic nervous system, it turns
00:13:05
out that the parasympathetic and the sympathetic are also very involved in what's happening here. And the basic
00:13:11
idea is the first half of the night, and you'll see that we've also broken it into 1 2 3 4 5 cycles usually of about
00:13:18
an hour and a half. The first half of the night till about 3:00 a.m. is mostly run by the sympathetic side,
00:13:25
>> which is the fight orflight side. >> Yes. So when you're well balanced and you have a completely normally operating
00:13:31
brain stem, you will have a couple of branches of REM sleep. But my patients did not have any REM sleep at all in the
00:13:39
first half of the night. And in fact, they might have been lucky to little have a little half an hour here between
00:13:45
4:30 and 5, if at all. The second half of the night from 3:00 am to 7 am is run by the parasympathetic
00:13:53
side. That means if you look at it in a certain way, you could say, well, wait, maybe they've lost the parasympathetic
00:14:01
driver for the second half of their night. Seeing all these sleep studies that did not have this phase of sleep,
00:14:10
they're actually one6 of the amount of RAM sleep they should have. And as I go back through all the sleep studies, I
00:14:16
realize, well, wait, don't we kind of do mood in REM sleep? >> What do you mean, do we do mood?
00:14:23
>> When trying to link the comments that my patients have made and the drugs that I
00:14:30
give them, I realize I've been giving out anti-depressants to this group of young, healthy women with headaches
00:14:37
because they frequently say, "I'm in a terrible mood." So, they can't remember. Isn't there a
00:14:44
body of literature about memory being made permanent during REAM? Yes, memory is linked and mood is linked. If I'm
00:14:51
allowed to go back to sleep, if I have the proper brain chemistry to allow me to fall back into REM sleep, I will wake
00:15:00
in a better mood. Those are the sorts of things that the patients will tell you if you ask about it and if they're able
00:15:06
to fall back to sleep. because my group did not have sleep apnnea and could not wear CPAP masks.
00:15:14
What's wrong with them? Why aren't they in this phase of sleep? This is a neurology problem. This is not a
00:15:20
pulmonologist. This is not about breathing. This is about this brain stem and what is the chemistry of this? So
00:15:27
then I go to the anatomy and then I find out what are the cells in this brain stem area that make us paralyzed. Just
00:15:36
to make sure I'm with you, you're you're asking that question because you figured
00:15:38
out that the women who are struggling with sleep and getting headaches have less of this REM sleep which is
00:15:45
associated with being paralyzed. So the question you've then asked is what are the chemicals that help us become
00:15:51
paralyzed? >> Yes. Okay. What [clears throat] are cells that take us into these what what
00:15:56
is the chemistry of that? Since I am so focused on biochemistry, there's actually a deficiency in a
00:16:01
neurotransmitter that our moving doors means that we've lost a neurotransmitter that we must have to be normal humans.
00:16:08
And the reason why they don't know it is because there are no drugs that duplicate acetylcholine. There are no
00:16:14
drugs. But ultimately what we found out together was that vitamin D makes the enzyme or the protein that makes a
00:16:24
certain reaction happen that makes acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter the chemical that the
00:16:32
autonomic parasympathetic side uses. We hear all the time about epinephrine and norepinephrine or adrenaline and
00:16:39
noradrenaline. That's what happens when somebody rear ends you. Your blood pressure goes up, your heart rate goes
00:16:44
up. That's all dominant here. If you're wearing a sleep tracker, you'll you'll see that there's a measure of what's
00:16:50
called heart rate variability that goes up as the parasympathetic becomes dominant
00:16:56
>> as the the rest and digest. >> Exactly. So all of the messages that we have to increase the heart rate or
00:17:03
decrease the heart rate or to have a bowel movement or be constipated or to digest our food, those are all
00:17:11
eventually run by a chemical and our body and our brain use these chemicals to send messages. This is actually a
00:17:20
chemical deficiency state that happens when you move indoors. Sunscreen, computers, and air
00:17:28
conditioning all started in the 1980s. And the reason why it's not as evident to you as it is to me is that I was
00:17:36
alive before the 1980s. There were two kids in my class of 300 that were overweight.
00:17:43
They didn't go on diets. They didn't have any trouble sleeping. They weren't on anti-depressants. The things that
00:17:50
weren't common when I was a teenager that are common now are striking for those of us who are this age because we
00:17:59
know it wasn't like that. What we've been told is it's toxins in the food. It's that we aren't doing it right. I
00:18:06
don't think those are things when you say I'm not doing it right, then you should be able to tell me how to do it
00:18:12
right. And that's what a lot of these podcasts are about. How do I change what I do so I can feel rested and be at the
00:18:18
peak performance of my life? That interests a lot of people. I would claim that there's a deficiency
00:18:25
state in the background that you can actually fix and you can fix it, but it's through vitamins. And the our ideas
00:18:32
about vitamins are wrong. Completely wrong. We've been taught that vitamins are not important or vitamins are very
00:18:43
important, but they're easy to use. They'll never hurt us. Uh you just take a certain like who's your
00:18:49
recommendation? What's the vitamin D recommendation dose that this guy's given out? We've been told things that
00:18:55
are actually not true. And medicine hasn't taken responsibility for the fact that this is the the core of
00:19:02
biochemistry. It was done by physicians. These original research articles in the 40s
00:19:09
and 50s that the word vitamin was used was done by medical experts. It's unfortunately been given to the
00:19:17
government to give recommendations. It should never be in the hands of the government. The government doesn't know
00:19:22
anything about our biochemistry. So the supplement industry at the moment is a mess. And I say that only because I
00:19:30
have seen dramatic things happen to my patients that are not what I expected. And vitamins
00:19:38
are a form of biohacking. They're just as dangerous as any drug you could put in your mouth. If you do not know what
00:19:45
you're doing with them, bad things will happen to you. And unfortunately, frequently those bad things are the same
00:19:51
thing you had before you took the vitamin. Therefore, you should pay attention to what you're feeling. So,
00:19:58
the pathway that I've built that's on my website now has a a second half that's a
00:20:02
journal. You have to keep notes of what's happening to you. >> How many people are experiencing sleep problems in your
00:20:11
point of view? >> Billions. It's around the world. There are sleep study centers in every country
00:20:17
that has electricity. in Germany, in Japan, in Brazil, and they're all publishing how abnormal the studies are.
00:20:27
This is not what it looks like. They rarely send out an article saying that we have
00:20:37
less RAM because they don't have an answer for why. I just happen to be the only one currently on the internet
00:20:46
that has a different way of looking at it. Well, I'm very curious to learn about all of this. I've never heard
00:20:51
someone say to me before that vitamins are linked to sleep issues. >> Absolutely.
00:20:57
>> Um, it's typically, you know, put on the sleep mask and close the blinds and make
00:21:00
sure it's cold in the room. So, this is incredibly interesting to me. >> Let me add one more thing so I don't
00:21:04
forget. You and Matt Walker talked about chronotypes. Yeah, >> there are many dogmatic statements that
00:21:10
are being made about genetics and sleep that are not necessarily wrong, but they're also not necessarily right. And
00:21:18
I had the same training that you that you get from Matt Walker. He's doing animal training. We say dogmatic things
00:21:26
based on certain studies that we do. And then my patients don't behave that way. my patients turn
00:21:35
out to, you know, this person has been working to take this to an extreme. So the chronotype story is you're either an
00:21:43
early bird or a night owl and you had shared that you're a night owl and that your girlfriend is an early bird. Okay?
00:21:51
And what is being taught is that that is your genetic makeup. Although there are genetic mutations
00:21:59
that lead to certain timing of sleep, it turns out everybody I was doing this vitamin stuff w with would revert back
00:22:07
to fall asleep at 10 and wake up at 6:00. Even the people who were working nights their whole life. This woman that
00:22:14
I'm seeing who is on disability now because she got a terrible disease that I believe is because she worked
00:22:23
nights when she is at home on disability for several years. that I'm still caring
00:22:27
for her for that disease. She's still sleeping during the day. Well, why would she sleep during the
00:22:34
day? And now I have a whole run of patients who say, "I guess it's because I always work nights." It turns out that
00:22:40
humans really can't work nights if they have normal brain chemistry. Why? Because we're day hunters. We are
00:22:48
supposed to be asleep in the night. And that is our biochemistry. There are lots
00:22:51
of animals that are designed to be awake at night. Owls. That's why they use that
00:22:55
as a symbol. And if you do the right thing with their chemistry, and if you insist that they
00:23:02
spend more time outside, then they actually revert to falling asleep at 10 p.m. and waking up at 6:00
00:23:10
a.m. It's very difficult to operate, unless you're international like you are, to be falling asleep. There are
00:23:17
people who fall asleep at 4:00 a.m. and wake up at noon. That is a very difficult problem to operate within the
00:23:24
normal population because the rest of the world doesn't operate that way. And when you think about it a little bit, we
00:23:30
actually have certain standards on when we start work and when we end work. And that's the same all over the globe. So
00:23:36
there were things that happened to me that surprised me and they became consistent. Okay? And those are some of
00:23:44
the things that we're going to talk about. And that's what made me think, you know, this is around the world and
00:23:49
it happened at a specific time. There are many diseases that started to be reported in the middle 80s. You guys
00:23:57
aren't aware of it because you think it's normal now, but ADD, ADHD, depression, things that are affecting ch
00:24:05
childhood development, which we could discuss at a different time, fatty liver, certain things like oh increase in
00:24:14
diabetes, the things that were diseases that had been described, they're all some of them are old diseases that have
00:24:21
increased in incidence, but some of them for the first time, fatty liver was first described non-alcoholic fatty
00:24:28
liver first described in the 80s ADHD is similar. So during the time that I don't
00:24:34
know why we have this epidemic I'm still thinking toxins because that's what we've been told pesticides glyphosate
00:24:43
and then we get into the area of vitamin D and how did I find out about vitamin D? Why
00:24:50
was I sort of forced against my will to step into the vitamin D politics, which is a horrible morass?
00:24:58
>> There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're
00:25:02
already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please
00:25:07
could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm,
00:25:11
you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much. So explain to me your
00:25:17
your assertion is that vitamin D is fundamentally linked to a lot of the sleep disorders and deficiencies that we
00:25:22
see. How how can you prove that to me? >> I think I would prefer to give you these
00:25:27
two examples. >> Okay. >> Because the people who are listening, these are at the two extremes, but it'll
00:25:33
cover a lot of the people that are listening. >> Okay? >> The first is let let's call her Meline.
00:25:38
>> Maline. >> She's 32 years old. She's a redhead. That turns out to be important. She's
00:25:45
100 pounds overweight. She just had her first pregnancy three years ago. And she
00:25:50
had been told that because she had endometriosis and polycystic ovarian syndrome, that she would never get
00:25:56
pregnant. But she got pregnant. She's very happy about that. She had uh gestational diabetes, which means she
00:26:03
had diabetes during the time that she was pregnant with her son. And now she is pretty much a wreck. She has daily
00:26:11
headache, which is why she's seeing me. She's on about nine drugs. She has several kinds of pain. She has a
00:26:18
terrible pain down the front of her leg that she's been told is endometriosis, growing on one of her nerves. She has
00:26:25
terrible burning in her feet. She has terrible reflux. She poops once a week. She feels like she has to get up and go
00:26:33
to the bathroom several times a night. She thinks that's why her sleep is so interrupted. So, I'm treating her for
00:26:40
her daily headaches and her pain. And then I start to think about sleep. And because we've been trained that fat
00:26:48
people are fat because they're fat slobs, because they eat wrong, because they don't exercise, it's their own
00:26:55
fault. I don't even think about the fact that many of these things might have a common
00:27:02
source and that she's been tortured by this her whole life. So I send her for a sleep study. She gets on CPAP. Over the
00:27:11
time she's on CPAP, she gets a little bit better. Her sleep is better. She feels better. And then I stumble into
00:27:18
vitamin D. Okay. Now, we're going to set that as an example of the most horrible
00:27:24
set of things you could have perhaps. And another example, and we're going to watch what happens to these two women
00:27:30
over time. The second one we'll call Natalie. And Natalie is tall, statuesque, she's a triathlete.
00:27:40
She is also seeing me for daily headache. She grew up in a family that is of Italian origin. She is dark tan.
00:27:47
She swims. She's athletic. She's outside all the time in the summer. Five years ago, she had her first child. Her
00:27:55
daughter, she did well. No problems with her sleep. Two years ago, she has her son. And since her son was born, she has
00:28:03
not been able to go back to sleep. Even when her son goes back to sleep, she can't. She feels tired. She has
00:28:10
postpartum depression. She had gestational diabetes. Like she's doing everything perfectly. She knows
00:28:18
everything there is to know. She's done paleo and keto. She is very well informed by the things that doctors tell
00:28:24
her to do. And now her sleep is also abnormal. And she had a few headaches in high school, but now she has daily
00:28:30
headache, too. So there's a fiveyear span here where I'm doing CPAP masks and sleeping pills. And those are some of
00:28:38
the stories. And it's not just limited to women, but I especially want to point out that
00:28:44
women are more effective because they have the babies. So, the next thing that happens is 5 years into it, I've got
00:28:52
this beautiful 18-year-old who's about to go to college. She comes to see me for daily headache. She has a sleep
00:28:58
study that shows none of these phases of deep sleep. >> So, she's having no deep sleep.
00:29:05
>> No deep sleep. And every 15 minutes or so, my interpretation is her brain is trying to get into these one of these
00:29:15
deep sleep phases and she wakes up to light sleep again. So every time the brain tries to do this, it breaks to
00:29:20
white sleep, light sleep, light sleep, light sleep. She thinks that she's asleep the whole night.
00:29:27
This shows that she's asleep the whole night. But her sleep study over my five years of experience is horrifying
00:29:35
because it's not just, oh, she's missing a little rim. She has no deep sleep at all. This is a brain stem
00:29:42
disorder of chemistry that's going to mean she might meet me 10 years from now with a stroke. I've taken care of 28-y
00:29:50
olds who just had a stroke. >> 28, sorry, >> 28-y olds. We associate stroke with
00:29:56
being old and having diabetes and hypertension and heart disease. That means I'm looking at this and for the
00:30:02
very first time I have actually started to see the diseases that my neurology patients come in with and their
00:30:09
relationship to sleep. By the end of the five years I'm doing sleep studies on anybody who will let me. So I'm doing
00:30:15
little kids, I'm doing moms, I'm doing dads, I'm doing every single neurologic illness that comes in. They're all
00:30:22
abnormal. All of them. This implies that the reason why you get a disease is because your sleep is not restorative.
00:30:32
That implies that I should think about the body as golly, I know people who live to be 75 years old and don't have a
00:30:39
doctor. They were my grandparents and then they started to get medical problems about age 75 and then they died
00:30:45
at 85. Why aren't we looking at it that way? Why aren't we saying, "Oh, this means
00:30:51
your repair system that's designed to completely repair everything in your body every night." And you talked with
00:30:59
um Tara Swat about lymphatic drainage. These things that happen while we're sleeping.
00:31:05
It is what makes us last. Like we're not made of teflon. We're made of these biologic materials and
00:31:12
they repair themselves every night. That's a miracle. >> If you view it through that lens,
00:31:19
then you start to question why is medicine doing what it is. I'm trained to ask questions for the thing the
00:31:27
person walks in for. Let's say burning in the feet. >> Okay? >> And I'm trained to make a little list of
00:31:34
the diseases that have resulted in that and then give a drug for it. And if we don't find a drug that reverses it,
00:31:43
which we haven't for burning, but I'm going to tell you why, then we give a drug that numbs the pain a little bit.
00:31:51
>> We just kind of plastering it over cracks. >> We're putting band-aids on these things
00:31:55
instead of saying, "Well, what do you think led to this?" And this glimpmphatic drainage point I think is a
00:32:01
really important one because what when I understood this glimpmphatic drainage idea it had a profound impact on my
00:32:09
relationship with sleep. I would argue more so than anything else. There's actually a colleague of mine who's
00:32:14
currently sat out there right and I have an emoji that I sent to her. She's called Georgia Gibson. I have an she she
00:32:21
likes to work very hard and I sent her this particular emoji of this this I can't even remember. She told me what
00:32:27
the cartoon was, but it's these little fish that come out and clean the big whale.
00:32:30
>> Yes. >> What's What's that called? >> I don't remember, but I know what you're
00:32:33
talking about. >> Okay, I'll put it on the screen. It's from like a movie. So, everyone in the
00:32:36
comments is probably going to know what I'm talking about. But I sent her this emoji just to remind her that she needs
00:32:41
to sleep cuz she needs to wash her brain. That's what I say. I say to her, "You need to wash your brain," which
00:32:45
means go to bed. When you go to sleep at night, these cleaners, you want, you know, again, I'm I'm animating this in a
00:32:51
way that's not scientifically accurate, but these cleaners come out and clean up
00:32:54
your brain and they wash it all and they clean it and they scrub it and they make
00:32:57
it all back to normal again. So, if you're not sleeping, then you're going to get some kind of buildup of crap and
00:33:03
that can lead to disease or, you know, other worse things down the line. >> Yes, that's a perfect description of it
00:33:10
actually. And that's about the level of what we know. So, the 18-year-old with no deep sleep, she comes back and say,
00:33:17
"Hey, this drug you gave me for my headaches made my headaches better, but I'm so tired." And I'm looking at her
00:33:22
sleep study going, "Holy crap, no wonder she's tired." Okay, this is really, really bad. And this is invisible.
00:33:29
Absolutely invisible to the rest of the physicians cuz she looks perfect. So, I do a B12 level and a thyroid test
00:33:36
because I have no idea what to do. And the B12 is profoundly low. low enough that it shows up as abnormal and a
00:33:44
little red. Okay. Now, the the weird part about this is I've never done a B12 level in a headache patient since I've
00:33:51
been doing headaches as a part of neurology, which is a large part of neurology. I then start to give B12
00:33:57
recommendations and I do B12 blood tests on all the patients who I have in my little stable of I've done these sleep
00:34:03
studies in them. They still are not sleeping well unless the sleeping pill works. So, for about a month, I'm doing
00:34:09
B12 tests and then one of my patients says to me, "My doctor said my vitamin D was low." She gave me vitamin D and my
00:34:17
wrist pain went away. And I had no clue and I thought, you know, I'm just doing blood tests anyway, which I never did in
00:34:24
my headache patients. I'm just going to throw that in. I was completely naive. And because I was naive, I was not
00:34:31
afraid to do this. But I did vitamin D levels and B12 levels in a group of about 500 patients between September and
00:34:40
December of 2009. And I gave you the background because I had all these thoughts buzzing around in
00:34:47
my head. What are we looking for? We're looking for something that it controls the brain stem. Now, they're going from
00:34:53
August or September to December. That's in the fall. So, if you're going to make
00:34:57
D in the summer, which is when we're supposed to make it because we're out in the sun, that's all I knew about D is
00:35:02
you make it from the sun. It's about bones. They were all low. All of them are low.
00:35:08
Two of these guys that are on CPAP come back. They both have headaches. They both say the same thing to me in the
00:35:13
same week. You know, I've been wearing the CPAP mask for a whole year. My headaches hadn't gone away. But that
00:35:20
little note you sent me last time I was in here when you did my vitamin D level and you told me to get vitamin D. I took
00:35:25
that for about a month. My sleep got better and my headaches went away. Now I happen to know that all the D's were
00:35:32
low. But D's about bone. Why would it have anything to do with sleep? So I go to the PubMed. That's my resource now. I
00:35:40
hang out with PubMed all the time, >> which is >> that's where you register all your
00:35:44
articles that we publish. 2009. I put in two search terms, vitamin D and sleep, and there are no hits.
00:35:52
And then I put in vitamin D in the brain and I wind up going to articles by a guy
00:35:58
named Walter Stumpf Stu MF who's been writing about vitamin D for 30 years who has actually published that there are
00:36:08
vitamin D receptors in this little stripe along the back of the brain stem that paralyzes us. Like he knows the
00:36:15
name of this nucleus. He has shown articles where the vitamin D receptors are in this nucleus that paralyzes us
00:36:22
and in the nuclei that are the clock nuclei that determine what time it is, what time we go to sleep, when we make
00:36:30
these transitions. The brain always knows exactly what time it is. Those areas have vitamin D receptors.
00:36:39
That means vitamin D is doing something. That means I'm very interested in thinking if this vitamin D
00:36:48
is low, like if they say 30 to 100 is normal, and my patients with sleep disorders and neurologic problems have
00:36:55
vitamin D levels in the low30s and below, is there a vitamin D level, not a dose, but a brain or a blood level that
00:37:06
I can measure that might make them sleep better? That would be phenomenal. Should
00:37:10
we go down this vitamin D road? I know nothing about it. I start sending people for vitamin D levels and giving them
00:37:15
vitamin D and I start reading. Walter Stump has already put together a beautiful belief system around vitamin D
00:37:23
is the hibernation hormone. It allows animals to adapt their body to tolerate winter when there's no food. It tells
00:37:32
their body to do things like the thyroid hormone lowers the metabolic rate of all
00:37:37
the cells in the body. The weird part is this is written about beautifully by Walter Stump. And because he has a whole
00:37:46
belief system that tells what you should expect, he's also published many articles. The first articles in 1982
00:37:55
about brain stem. He publishes articles about postpartum depression, about infertility, about obesity. He's telling
00:38:04
us what epidemics are going to happen, but it's before it happens because the sunscreen's coming out in 85
00:38:12
and the middle of the air conditioning computer. And when I'm talking about this during CO, it becomes much more
00:38:19
exaggerated. Okay, CO has brought us all indoors and we're starting to feel the effects of that even more exaggerated.
00:38:26
So, Walter has this idea set. I call him up. Luckily, he's retired and he takes my phone call and I say, "Hey, you don't
00:38:35
know me, but I'm this clinician in Texas and I have this clinical observation that I've done all these sleep studies
00:38:41
on people. Their brain that should be sending them through these particular steps is not. You have
00:38:49
shown that there are vitamin D receptors all over the nuclei that should be running this.
00:38:54
Has anybody written about sleep and vitamin D?" And he says, "No, but it makes perfect sense. It's the
00:38:59
hibernation hormone. What else would you do? You sleep longer. And it turns out that when our D goes
00:39:05
very low, our brain actually forgets how to sleep. That's the easiest way to describe it. That gal that I showed you,
00:39:12
she had not only vitamin D deficiency as the primary deficiency and with secondary deficiency we're going to talk
00:39:18
about, but there your brain just becomes completely scattered and it's what it's
00:39:22
supposed to do because the the D is doing a specific thing. It took me a while to figure out. There are articles
00:39:30
that actually took Walter's articles and said, "Hey, there are these D receptors." What hormones do that's
00:39:36
unique is the hormone goes inside the nucleus of the cell and the nucleus has the DNA
00:39:43
and it binds to the DNA and it has a special vitamin D receptor. That's what Walter was measuring. When it hits that
00:39:50
receptor, there's a specific protein that that DNA expresses. That means that little piece of DNA comes out. It makes
00:39:57
this protein. The protein that it makes is an enzyme that makes acetylcholine. So that means I can trace through the
00:40:05
scientific literature all the way from the receptor to the articles that use that that showed that it was an an
00:40:12
enzyme called choline acetal transferase. Now the next part is really important because what I want out of
00:40:20
this is that Meline and Natalie both get better. Okay, this this biochemistry is
00:40:26
my thrill. But what the listener wants is how do I get better? Now, since I started this and the first time I
00:40:35
started giving vitamin D was in 2010, this is now 16 years later. Is vitamin D any better understood or
00:40:47
given out? No. The science is phenomenal. The recommendations for the doctors don't go there. The endocrine society
00:40:58
are supposed to be the experts in hormones. D is a hormone. >> I think that's an important point which
00:41:03
is a lot of people think of vitamin D as some kind of well we think of it as a vitamin but you're telling me it's it's
00:41:08
a hormone. >> It's the most bizarre thing I've ever run into in medicine. It's really
00:41:12
bizarre. >> Which which path? >> There was a mistake. There was a mistake made in calling it a
00:41:19
vitamin. It is made on our skin. Now, it turns out animals frequently lick their fur,
00:41:28
and they get their vitamin D that's made in their fur from licking their fur. Some of it's absorbed, but the thing
00:41:35
that's unique about us and pigs, domesticated pigs, is we're bald. That means most of the time we're making
00:41:43
it on our skin. It's never supposed to be from the food. It was not ever about the food for us.
00:41:52
We don't lick our skin. Therefore, we absorb it through our skin and we can actually have salmon. The
00:42:00
salmon has vitamin D in it. That's the salmon's vitamin D. It's not our vitamin D. It's like saying you eat salmon, you
00:42:06
get salmon estrogen. That should be enough estrogen for you to have a normal period. That's crazy. If your ovaries
00:42:13
are not making enough estrogen, you won't have a normal period. Okay? They called it a vitamin. And in the n early
00:42:19
80s medicine decided vitamins were for lesser humans. Therefore D got pushed into that pile and it got given over the
00:42:29
counter. Now, the fascinating part about that is it turns out to be a good thing
00:42:32
that it's over the counter because the lay public once they hear that their whole health is actually tied to this
00:42:42
and that they've been doing what their doctor recommended, which is to use sunscreen and stay out of the sun. And
00:42:48
the original recommendation, cuz I was there in the early 80s, was don't sunburn.
00:42:56
Every sunburn that's a bad sunburn that you peel from will age your skin even if
00:43:01
you're 10. >> Which is is that true or not? >> That's true. >> It's true. Yeah, >> that piece is true. Now, the weird thing
00:43:06
is that has been morphed over the last 40 years into don't ever let the sun touch your skin. People are smart. If
00:43:15
you tell them that they can use sunscreen wisely and it blocks the ability to make vitamin D and it has
00:43:23
turned into the combination of sunscreen plus being inside much more than we ever
00:43:29
were before. When you had air conditioning, people slept out on the roof in Saudi Arabia. That means you
00:43:35
spend much more time outdoors. And it also turns out there's a particular move in health and wellness which is about
00:43:44
the many forms of wavelengths of energy that we absorb that are given to us by the sun that are not UVB. UVB is the
00:43:53
wavelength that makes D. There are your podcast about infrared. Very very important. That means there are many
00:44:02
wavelengths of energy and the more time we spend outdoors, the more our body actually uses those wavelengths in our
00:44:11
biology because medicine is so conservative and so slow to change. They basically poo poo any new ideas. So
00:44:21
hyperbaric oxygen laughed at uh infrared laughed at made made fun of and therefore you could actually have your
00:44:29
license taken away since co since doctors are now doing things across video. I am safer in my little
00:44:39
place making my comments making my statements. They're madeup stories. >> What is a madeup story? My telling you
00:44:46
my belief system is a madeup story. This is really an important idea. I thought that
00:44:55
everything written in a book is true. As soon as the publications come out, soon
00:45:00
as I can go to PubMed, I thought those things written down were true absolutes. And then you stay in medicine
00:45:08
for 30 years and you realize the things that you were taught are not truth anymore. Well,
00:45:15
that means they made up those stories. They do a scientific experiment. You and I are looking at the data, but there's
00:45:24
always a conclusory. My conclusions from this data are those are always made up stories. And in fact,
00:45:33
they're always humans making up stories. You and I are not listening to stories that ants make up or that cats make up.
00:45:44
We're very human centric. We're studying things that are stories that humans make up.
00:45:51
>> And we're arriving at a conclusion based on some factors that we can see which is
00:45:56
you know often causation or correlation sorry and not necessarily causation. >> Correlation very important. We all have
00:46:04
a belief system. You and I are building a belief system here. I told you that Walter Stump had a belief system. The
00:46:11
reason why I'm using those terms is I was really pissed off at the pulmonologist when I realized
00:46:20
that woman with the sleep apnea, she wasn't a fat middle-aged male with a fat tongue. How dare they? Here are these
00:46:27
women. They have headaches. They're suffering. How dare they make up this story? And then I began to realize
00:46:35
they made up those stories. That was their best guess. >> That is every single person who sits on
00:46:41
this side of the table. It's their best guest. All of us are or you wouldn't have us on
00:46:46
here. Very enthusiastic about our guests. But it's very important to realize that every belief system means
00:46:53
you see the world through that. But it always has blinders. >> There are things that you won't be able
00:46:59
to see because of it as well. Then you must move into a point of view which is I need to stay flexible. What
00:47:08
if new information comes? Yeah. >> Okay. So >> the debelief system at the moment is
00:47:15
that it's a vitamin >> and there's a huge political fight within the medical literature. It's very
00:47:22
weird. >> The debelief system. What do you mean? Medicine has decided that the only way
00:47:27
you can get any important information is to have a control group, a study group.
00:47:34
The study group gets X, a drug, in this case, vitamin D. And you compare the outcome of both groups.
00:47:41
>> And what does the other group get? A placebo. Basically, they think it's a drug, but there's nothing in it.
00:47:44
>> Yeah. And then you compare the outcome. The problem is in no biologic pathway is
00:47:51
there only one variable. There's never one variable. And that means when you give one a
00:47:58
hormone, you also need to know that hormones are always in done by blood levels and that
00:48:08
the normal state for the human body in every biologic animal including plants is that hormones
00:48:17
stay in a tight little narrow band. Too much and too little are both not good. always goes towards the middle. In the
00:48:24
lei experience, this is why we do blood levels of testosterone. If we give you testosterone supplement, if we give you
00:48:31
estrogen in thyroid, even lay people know my aunt would get crazy when her thyroid was off and it could be too high
00:48:40
or too low. D is exactly the same. Yet, they do these studies based on a fixed dose. So it doesn't matter what the
00:48:50
level is, what time of the year, how much sun they're getting, they're all getting
00:48:55
4,000 IUs. >> So they could be having too much or too little. >> No blood levels are taken.
00:49:00
>> So you're saying that it should be personalized the amount of vitamin D. >> Absolutely. Any hormone that you take,
00:49:05
if you compare, that's why the endocrine society is so important. They know in 2004 when they gave the final
00:49:12
recommendation for the doctors and practice, they know that the studies that have been done so far are rarely
00:49:20
done in the way a hormone should be studied. And they say that in their report. They spent a whole year looking
00:49:26
at this chemical, all the research that's done. And they say, you know, we don't really have any good studies. We
00:49:33
don't have any clinical studies like mine for instance where we're relating the dose that we give the person to the
00:49:39
blood level that's achieved. Therefore, you would think they would say we need more studies. No, here's what they said.
00:49:47
Therefore, you should not do vitamin D levels and you should not give recommendations about vitamin D, taking
00:49:52
it or not taking it. you should just avoid the whole conversation because what's going to happen when you do a
00:49:58
vitamin D level is you're going to call me up and you're going to say what dose should I give the D level is this and we
00:50:04
don't know so they've said don't be curious don't do it that's insane now that means the lay public is coming to
00:50:13
me and other people on the internet and they're coming to podcasts like this to learn about it and there are a lot of
00:50:20
conflicting attitudes foods. I may be one of the biggest recorder in my brain, which is
00:50:28
not in a data dump that I can put into an article of how to manage vitamin D levels, what you should do, what you
00:50:36
should do with dosing. And that's one of the things I have in this workbook that
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your free trial at shopify.com/bartlet. I'm very curious about Meline and Natalie still.
00:52:43
>> Great. >> What happened to Meline and Natalie? >> Okay. For two years, I'm talking to
00:52:47
Walter on the phone and I start giving vitamin D to my my patients and I learned that every single person needs a
00:52:54
unique amount. Very scary. That means everybody else is saying, "Oh, take 5,000, take 10,000, take 20,000. I take
00:53:01
a h 100,000 once a month. Okay? And I find out also that if you get past about a level of 60, that's when they come
00:53:11
back and say, you know what, my sleep is better. Now, importantly, I still was operating under the false belief that
00:53:18
there's only one variable. Okay? I came up in medicine using drugs. That means you match the drug to the complaint. Oh,
00:53:26
that one didn't work. And then we do this one, and then we do this one. Okay? I'm ashamed that I looked at it that
00:53:31
way, but that was my training. So, I thought vitamin D was going to fix everything. Within the next 6 months, my
00:53:37
patients start to come back and say horrible things like my joints ache all over and my doctor's about to send me to
00:53:45
the rheatologist who does autoimmune diseases, >> like arthritis. >> Exactly. Then the next person comes in
00:53:51
and says, "I've got this terrible burning in my hands and feet." And another woman comes in the same month
00:53:59
with burning in her hands and feet. Two women, same month. They have nothing in common except they both have headaches
00:54:06
and they've been doing vitamin D with me for two years. And they say, they want to know, is this related to that vitamin
00:54:12
D that I've been taking with you? And now I'm very freaked out because I'm afraid that what I've been doing even
00:54:19
though their sleep is better and we're all happy about that headaches were better now they're a little worse again
00:54:25
is I've put them in a situation where they are now using more of whatever these building blocks are and I've I've
00:54:32
actually forced them into another deficiency state. I'm making them make more repairs and now they're deficient
00:54:38
in something else and I don't know what. Now, a patient walks in with a book. This is why I'm telling you that my
00:54:45
patients are the ones that taught me all this stuff. And I'm telling you these embarrassing stories because they come
00:54:51
in and they say, "Did you do this to me?" That's very uncomfortable. And I don't
00:54:58
know, but I feel a commitment that I better find out. And a woman walks in with a book that's called the pain-free
00:55:06
promise of pantaththenic acid. God forbid it's another vitamin. So I happen to have developed over the same time
00:55:14
period this weird buttock pain. I can't sit down to talk to my patients at the end of the day because my butt hurts. So
00:55:23
I feel like I have the same thing. So I read this book. It says pantaththenic acid is a chemical that makes this thing
00:55:32
called co-enzyme A. Co-enzyme A is responsible for making cortisol. And I think I don't think that's causing
00:55:40
this burning, but this is something I need to know about. And cortisol is big in sleep. We talk about cortisol all the
00:55:47
time, the timing of it, and it's huge in inflammation. I go to the vitamin store,
00:55:52
I find panthenic acid. The book says 400 milligrams is the right dose. So, I pick
00:55:57
up the 400 milligrams and I go to the B complex. I find something called B 100, which means there's each one has got 100
00:56:06
milligrams or 100 micrograms. I go home with these two things. I start taking them
00:56:13
and I give recommendations to the anyone who comes in in that one week where I have a sleep study, they have a new
00:56:21
complaint, I give a recommendation of B100 and B5. What the book did was it sent me to the references. The articles
00:56:29
that she references are from the 1950s in this creepy lab next to the Iowa State prison where they're doing these
00:56:39
creepy experiments on prisoners before it becomes illegal. They published this article saying if you block panaththenic
00:56:45
acid for two weeks, you see four things. They can't sleep. They have belly complaints, bloating,
00:56:53
and all sorts of things. They have a funny puppet like gate and they have burning in their hands and feet and I
00:56:58
go, "This is wonderful." So that was one of the motivations. So the cortisol link
00:57:04
to pain and the burning in the hands and feet. Now I've got it in my head that I've made them use more of the B
00:57:14
vitamins. >> So let's just pause that. So you're saying that by asking your patients to
00:57:19
take more vitamin D, you're saying that the body has also started to use more B vitamins, which means that by taking
00:57:26
more vitamin D, they're now deficient in B vitamins. >> Yes. >> And so when you use vitamin D, you also
00:57:32
use more B vitamins. >> There's another point that I'm about to make, but you summarize it perfectly. M.
00:57:39
>> So [clears throat] the next question would be, okay, I'm taking 400 milligrams cuz that's what it says in
00:57:43
the book and that's the only dose that was on the shelf in the vitamin store. >> I get to the end of the week and I
00:57:49
realize I have restless legs and my restless legs has been much worse this week. This is probably too big a dose
00:57:57
and I stop the 400 milligrams and everything goes away. My butt pain goes away like in a day.
00:58:02
>> 400 milligrams of >> B5. So panaththenic acid is called B5. All the patients who come back say
00:58:13
were you trying to kill me? This 400 milligrams here I got so agitated I stopped it after two days. I felt like
00:58:22
I was crawling out of my skin and I couldn't sleep at all. If you block B5 you get insomnia. That means it has
00:58:28
power in sleep. D has power in sleep. But it turns out if it has power in sleep, your body has a very specific
00:58:36
amount that it wants. If you give it too much, it's not happy. If you give it too
00:58:42
little, it's not happy. And it turns out that instead of giving you one thing when it's low and another thing when
00:58:49
it's high, which is what I would have anticipated, it goes back to the same thing. When it's not happy, it just
00:58:54
stops sleeping. Now, a couple of them come back and say, you know, I stopped the 400 milligrams because I was so
00:59:00
agitated, couldn't sleep at all, but I stayed on B100. I feel great. My sleep is perfect. My pain is gone. And I said,
00:59:07
that's what happened to me. It's just like too weird. This chemical is doing something and it's acting. What I would
00:59:14
say to my patients is be very careful with this because I don't really know what dose you'll need.
00:59:20
If it's too much, it'll act like caffeine. It'll keep you up at night. Okay. Then the next thing that happens is a
00:59:26
gal comes in and says, "You know, you gave me that B 100 and I I achd all over. I would get up in
00:59:34
the morning and I go and she said, you know, I broke it in half and I'm taking that and I feel
00:59:40
great." What you'll see here is B50, which is 50 milligrams of each, but all eight B's has 50 milligs of of B5 in it.
00:59:49
It turns out if you've been taking D for two years, you've actually worked your way into a place where your body has
00:59:56
been using more bees and you are now very profoundly deficient. But she did not take two years. She was a new
01:00:02
patient to me. She had not been on D for that period of time. The reason why this
01:00:07
discussion is important is there are millions of people who started taking D and CO who by the fourth year after
01:00:14
taking it started to have burning in their hands and feet. They're not even taking it anymore. They took it from
01:00:21
2020 to 2023. Their levels got into the 60s. Their doctor said, "Hey, 60 is enough. Stop taking the vitamin D." But
01:00:29
they still show up with the B vitamin diagnosis. And they go to their doctor and they say, "Oh, well, you've
01:00:33
developed lupus. Oh, or you have this. Oh, or you have that." These are all diseases that have been described
01:00:39
already, but they haven't been described as B vitamin deficiency states, which is
01:00:44
bizarre, but that's the historical point. All of the literature says B5 deficiency doesn't exist because it's in
01:00:51
every food. Now, I'm reading that literature and it says thamine, which is B1, has a poop bacteria source and a
01:01:00
food source. B2 poop bacteria and a food source. All of them come from the poop.
01:01:08
>> What do you mean come from the poop? These eight chemicals called B, all of them are made by bacteria
01:01:16
and we absorb them. Everybody knows that we have the wrong microbiome. And we've
01:01:21
all been told that it's toxins. Antibiotics are the major thing that are blamed. But we now have a huge body of
01:01:28
literature about the microbiome being abnormal. >> The gut microbiome. >> Yes. The other weird part about it is
01:01:35
there are these guys in Oklahoma, GI surgeons, who are giving poop transplants. >> Give me context on what that is.
01:01:41
>> They take poop from one person and they push it up the other person's butt. Like
01:01:46
we've spent a hundred years saying stay away from the poop. It's bad for you. Don't go from the poop to your mouth.
01:01:51
Okay? We've made this idea that the bacteria, we're fighting against them. They're
01:01:58
trying to take us over and they're bad and we're fighting against them. But as people are dying of things like
01:02:05
claustrdium difficil, which ciff is the way it's shortened, they're dying of cadiff infection and they're doing poop
01:02:12
transplants and they live. It turns out that the 8 B vitamins were first described as bacterial growth factors.
01:02:20
They are chemicals that one bacteria is able to make and it pushes it out of its
01:02:26
cell into the environment. And this one next to it, that's a different one goes >> [gasps]
01:02:31
>> Goodie, give me that. And those guys live together as a group, a commensal, meaning each one of them derive benefit
01:02:41
from having the other one there. So there are four big groups of bacteria that is the normal human microbiome.
01:02:50
Well, why are there four? Why is it always this four? And how come we only know about 2% of them? for saying all these
01:03:00
things that the microbiome is wrong. Turns out we only know 2% of 200 bacteria that are normal
01:03:08
occupants from the mouth, from the lips all the way to the anus. We only know 2%.
01:03:15
But we have the genetic footprint of every single one. We are able to take them out of the poop or out of the small
01:03:22
intestine or out of the mouth and we can say these are the genetics and we've named all of them. So we know there are
01:03:28
200. Okay. >> And the article that they write is, you know, it looks to us like the reason why
01:03:34
this forsome of groups hang out together is because they all at least need one B
01:03:38
vitamin and they produce at least one. So they all have a relationship to the B vitamins. And we should start thinking
01:03:47
about the microbiome as the production system that supplies the B vitamins to the body. I didn't find that article
01:03:55
until after. But here I am back again with one big question. These two women with the burning in their hands and
01:04:02
feet, why did they get B vitamin deficient? If the bees come from the food, they've had the same diet all
01:04:07
along. And I I haven't controlled their diet. I haven't made them change their diet. Why did all of these people come
01:04:14
back with these complaints? The one thing we know is many of them have IBS symptoms, which are a signal
01:04:21
that the bacteria isn't right. IBS. What's that? >> Irritable bowel syndrome. >> Yeah.
01:04:26
>> Diarrhea, constipation, bloating. My belly isn't right. >> Yeah. >> Because I had assumed that D was going
01:04:32
to fix everything. >> Vitamin D. >> Mhm. >> The [clears throat] vitamin D was going
01:04:35
to fix their belly and it didn't. There were several things that did not get better. One, their IBS didn't get
01:04:42
better. Two, they didn't lose weight. That was really weird because they were out exercising more. They were out
01:04:48
exercising in the middle of the day, but they didn't lose weight. That means there's still something wrong in the
01:04:53
background where they didn't lose weight. So, I'm stuck with, okay, why didn't the D fix the B thing? Oh. Oh,
01:05:03
these were all described as bacterial growth factors. I have assumed that vitamin D was a bacterial growth factor
01:05:11
because Walter W talked about the GI tract having all sorts of receptors for vitamin D. And so I assumed that the
01:05:17
bacteria that lived inside us needed vitamin D to be normal. And therefore I assumed that IBS showed up in the 1980s
01:05:25
[clears throat] because we went into D deficiency and that D deficiency caused this IBS. There
01:05:31
were no articles about that in humans until 2020 when COVID came and they actually started to realize that the
01:05:38
people who were D deficient died in COVID and they started to actually look at oh is the microbiome playing a role
01:05:47
in our immune system? Yes. If I give vitamin D, will the bacterial makeup of my stool change in a positive way?
01:05:57
>> Exactly. Does the poop bacteria makeup change in a positive way? We know we've
01:06:02
seen people who don't have inflammatory disorders and they have these this bacterial makeup. Will giving vitamin D
01:06:08
change the population? And yes, that's the answer. Now I realized now I'm giving two bacterial growth factors D
01:06:17
and now I'm giving B 100 and I'm giving a large dose of all eight B's. Remember that give all eight. Mhm.
01:06:25
>> That means by accident I have actually given eight bacterial growth factors that are necessary for bringing the poop
01:06:33
bacteria back to the normal human makeup that it's supposed to be that it has always come to be spontaneously.
01:06:41
That's a really important point. All the other animals in the world, they're not
01:06:45
obese. There are no obese squirrels in my backyard. The only obese animals are are cats and dogs that we keep inside.
01:06:52
So to summarize for me, what is the link between vitamin D and the B vitamins? >> It turns out that all the bees come from
01:06:59
the microbiome. >> Yes. Okay, I understood that. >> In order to have the correct microbiome,
01:07:04
we are actually commensal organisms with our microbiome. That means we have to provide D. They in turn provide us with
01:07:14
bees. >> Okay. So isn't that a good thing that you gave them D then because then their
01:07:18
body makes B. >> Yes. But it didn't make be on its own. Otherwise, those side effects like my
01:07:25
butt pain wouldn't have been there. Okay. So, let's bring that let's bring that into focus. The D by itself did not
01:07:32
correct the microbiome. >> Yeah. >> So, when I took 5,000 of D between 2020 and 2023,
01:07:40
and I took it for three years because my doctor told me it was okay. But in 2025,
01:07:46
I started to have rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. The D did not correct my microbiome. It actually made me
01:07:54
deficient. I'm going to give you the drug for rheumatoid arthritis. I'm not going to picture it as, oh, you need
01:08:00
B50. >> So, you gave B50, but then didn't they have another problem? >> Most of the time, what happens after the
01:08:06
B50 is everything comes back to normal. The GI tract corrects. You have to take it only for 3 months. I was taking it
01:08:13
for four and a half months and I started to wake up and feel old. >> Yeah. >> And everything I just parenthetically
01:08:20
told you about the the GI tract was percolating around in my brain. And what I had told my patients was, you know, I
01:08:27
think we've stumbled on the growth factor that the right microbiome needs. And I think the reason you became B
01:08:34
vitamin deficient was because it was the wrong microbiome. But when we give them
01:08:39
what they need, they're going to grow back. >> Okay. Fine. They're going to grow back
01:08:42
and they're going to do their job. >> Okay, so >> they're going to produce B50. They're
01:08:48
going to make that. >> Let me summarize that. So, by giving them B50 for a short period of time,
01:08:53
[snorts] you're kind of jumpstarting the gut microbiome and then you don't want to keep giving it to them or else
01:08:58
they're going to become like dependent or not do their job properly. So, you want to give it to them for 3 months.
01:09:02
Let them jump start and then they'll do their job and then you leave them alone.
01:09:05
>> Yes. And I want to add one more thing. The way you think about it is probiotics
01:09:11
are bacteria. You dump the bacteria down and you swallow it. It goes into your small
01:09:16
intestine. But if it does not have the growth factors that it needs, which every bacteria has its little set of
01:09:25
growth helpers, it needs to be able to absorb from the actual juice that's down there. If it doesn't have that, it can't
01:09:33
reproduce. Every bacteria that's sitting in my small intestine right now 12 hours from now is going to be in a
01:09:42
different place. >> A [clears throat] day from now I'm going to poop it out. Who's up here now? The
01:09:47
great great granddaughters of the bacteria that are sitting there while you're I are talking. They reproduce
01:09:54
rapidly. You have to picture them like a river. Like we're sitting in, we're looking at the river and the water looks
01:10:01
like this and 10 minutes later the water looks the same but that's not the same water that we were looking at 10 minutes
01:10:09
ago. That water is downstream. [snorts] That means the level of reproduction that they are expected to do requires
01:10:18
constant production of these growth factors. Now it turns out that you don't have to think about that. All you have
01:10:25
to do is have the normal bacteria that was generated spontaneously when you were born because mom was giving you D
01:10:33
in her breast milk and it also had eight B's. Those eight B's came from her normal microbiome in the breast milk.
01:10:40
That means you had everything you needed and then you were out in the sun. You were born in June or July in the summer
01:10:48
and then you got D on your skin and that process has replicated for 300,000 years
01:10:55
for 250 million years. The dinosaurs had a microbiome in their intestines. This is so old it's unimaginable.
01:11:05
>> So what is the conclusion here then? Because I do want to bring this back to uh Natalie and Meline.
01:11:09
>> Okay. >> I still haven't figured out what what you what you told them to do. Stephen,
01:11:12
you are so smart and it's so such a pleasure to talk to you. These are difficult points. Meline is struggling
01:11:20
with all these things. She's slowly getting better. Then we do the D. She's slowly getting better. Then we do the B
01:11:26
100. And then it's freaking awesome. She starts to lose the pain that she had down her leg.
01:11:36
The burning in her hands and feet goes away. Her sleep gets much better. Now she's into year three and four
01:11:43
of what becomes the right sleep program and she's still on 30,000 IUs of D a day. That's an immense dose. Most people
01:11:51
are taking 5 to 10. She's been taking 30,000 a day for four years. Her D level has stayed the same. It's in
01:12:00
the 60s. She's doing a great job of keeping everything the same. That really means that her body is using
01:12:05
30,000 IUs of vitamin D a day for four years. That's a very important concept because it means she is using so much
01:12:14
more than anybody else is using in my practice. Most people are on 10,000. But she's making these amazing repairs.
01:12:23
Her depression is gone. She's stopped three medicines that we've been using for pain control. She now gets up in the
01:12:29
morning and she feels energetic. She's starting a program that the Texas state has for going back to work. I mean, I
01:12:36
was like, "This girl's never going back. She wants to go back to work. She is a totally different person." Now,
01:12:43
importantly, she is not 100 pounds thinner. She's still 100 pounds overweight. And that is one of the
01:12:50
things that happened in most of my patients and clients. The body will not lose that weight until it's really made
01:12:56
every repair it thinks is necessary. And then it decides that it's not going to need this fat anymore.
01:13:04
>> So with her, did you take her off the B vitamins? >> The routine is that one, they have to do
01:13:11
D and this this will become the right sleep program. >> But they have to do D because they're
01:13:15
not getting sunlight. >> Correct. >> We none of us really get enough sunlight. >> Correct. So and we can talk about
01:13:21
supplement versus sun, but the D is pivotal to the entire program and it has to continue. And if you have a sleep
01:13:29
problem or medical problems, you will do better if you get your D above 60 and keep it around there.
01:13:36
>> That is not the same as saying what is the ideal D level for a human who wants
01:13:43
to overachieve. It is not the same. >> Okay, >> so she's on D. She stays on D the rest
01:13:49
of her life as long as she needs it. And she's always checking her D levels. Then
01:13:54
she goes on B 100. she happened to be one of the ones that was on D by itself for 2 years. If you have been on D for
01:14:00
two or three or 5 years in the past and have developed B vitamin deficiency states, then you will have to go back on
01:14:07
D with the B50 and you will do that for 3 months and then you will stop and you'll go down to a much lower dose
01:14:14
that's a multivitamin. One of the things in the background that we haven't talked
01:14:18
about yet is there are actually hundreds of things that the bacteria are doing for us that are just starting to be
01:14:25
reported. But they have been pivotal all along in all the minerals, all the minerals that show up in a multivitamin.
01:14:32
All the magnesium, calcium, selenium, manganese, all these things that nobody's really interested in and they
01:14:38
all are in list on their multi multivitamin. All through the same time frame, people
01:14:43
are developing iron deficiency and iron overload. And it turns out that the bacteria have been a pivotal part in our
01:14:51
intestine, speaking to our body about whether or not our iron level is low or high in the liver or in the blood system
01:14:59
in our bone marrow or in our brain. And if you do not have a specific bacteria called Lactobacillus rutery, you will be
01:15:07
missing a brand new metabolite or chemical that was named after that bacteria just in the last three years
01:15:14
that's called rutery. That is one of the chemical messengers that our body uses.
01:15:20
So that means many of the deficiency states that the naturopaths and the functional medicine people are studying
01:15:27
are all linked to the fact that this bacterial tube has been doing all these things for us all along. And when you
01:15:35
lost them, each individual person has its own set of specific deficiency states that must be addressed for their
01:15:44
sleep to get better. >> This is something that I've made for you. I realized that the direio audience
01:15:50
are strivvers. Whether it's in business or health, we all have big goals that we
01:15:54
want to accomplish. And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim at the big big big goal, it can feel
01:16:00
incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at
01:16:04
the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards. The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny
01:16:11
small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually this philosophy is highly responsible for
01:16:17
much of our success here. So what we've done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made
01:16:23
these 1% diaries and we released these last year and they all sold out. So I asked my team over and over again to
01:16:30
bring the diaries back but also to introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary. So now
01:16:35
we have a better range for you. So, if you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some
01:16:43
motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all
01:16:47
sell out once again. And you can get yours at the diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in
01:16:53
the description below. I want to go back to Madeline. So, my question was because
01:16:58
the research that I'm reading says that vitamin D does not cause trigger or create a B vitamin deficiency.
01:17:03
>> No, it's not in the literature except my article. Taking vitamin D supplements
01:17:08
will not drain your your body's B vitamins. >> Let me read my my title. Vitamin D
01:17:14
deficiency changes the intestinal microbiome, reducing B vitamin production in the gut. The resulting
01:17:20
lack of pandaththenic acid adversely affects the immune system, producing a pro-inflammatory state associated with
01:17:26
atheroscerosis and autoimmunity. This is a brand new discovery made by someone who's not a scientist, who's not working
01:17:34
in the primary lab, who is a clinician. And the impact of this is only as strong
01:17:42
as I can get this the ideas out there and talk about what happened to my patients. Now,
01:17:49
>> is it is it plausible that there's a sort of a intermediary link um between the two? I'm reading some
01:17:57
things here that say people are very frequently both low in vitamin D and vitamin B12 at the same time. And this
01:18:02
is because they share the same root cause like a poor gut absorption, aging, or a restrictive diet, not because one
01:18:07
vitamin is destroying the other. >> That's what we've been told. We've also been told that old people
01:18:14
don't need as much sleep and that old people get a bad gut as they get old. It is my belief now that it is there is an
01:18:24
absolute link between the production of D and I don't have the articles for this
01:18:27
even though this is dogma at the moment that our production of vitamin D goes down as we get older. So, if you look
01:18:34
back to that person who was 75, who didn't get sick until they were 75, [snorts]
01:18:42
their skin production, even though they're still out there with their truck farm and still raising their own food,
01:18:47
their skin production rate of vitamin D goes down. And this is probably true for
01:18:51
every animal. And then as their D goes low, they lose their microbiome. And then they die of one of the multiple
01:18:58
diseases that are linked to this multiple deficiency state. It's a different lens to look through that says
01:19:07
there is actually a system that allowed us to live without medical problems that
01:19:12
weren't either related to epidemics of childhood illness or starving to death. And as long as we had good diets, you
01:19:21
can actually look at 1945 to about 1985 and say, what was the ideal for the humans that lived rurally in the United
01:19:28
States? Did they live to be 75 years old? and then get diseases. So it's my claim that those people didn't go to the
01:19:36
doctor because there weren't any around them and then things started to happen to them that instead of looking at it
01:19:43
through the lens of this disease means this drug that instead we say we should pre-preventing this by paying attention
01:19:51
to what vitamin D does in the body and what the bees do in the body and ultimately
01:20:00
that is linked to most of our diseases. is okay. So I'll read the conclusion of your study here which was published in
01:20:06
2016. I hypothesize and it's important to say [clears throat] this is a hypothesis that the parallel epidemics
01:20:11
of abnormal sleep and abnormal intestinal microbiome are linked to one another through vitamin D deficiency.
01:20:18
Proper supplementation doses of vitamin D plus all eight B vitamins appears to return the intestinal microbiome to
01:20:24
normal in 3 months. Reinstating the normal microbiome not only treats IBS symptoms, it returns the supply of
01:20:30
vitamin B's to their natural daily doses. The B vitamins are neither good for us nor
01:20:36
unnecessary. They are good for the person who needs them and only until the normal source picks up again. Both sleep
01:20:42
disruption and pain can be caused by large doses of B vitamins once the intestinal microbiome has returned to
01:20:48
normal. The B vitamins are very biologically intertwined both in their intestinal production and cellulose
01:20:55
cellular use. This suggests that B vitamins, aside from B12, were not meant to be used individually and returning to
01:21:01
restorative sleep with normal supply of the building blocks of cellular repair has the potential to repair the
01:21:06
pro-inflammatory state seen in association with a chloris >> atheroscerosis >> as well as the hyperadrogenic
01:21:17
state of associated with hypertension, heart disease and stroke. It appears that given the proper essential elements
01:21:22
for normal sleep, the body is designed to repair every physical injury that occurs during normal daily use and may
01:21:28
even retain a memory of long deferred repairs. So essentially, you're saying that um if you can return the body's
01:21:35
vitamin D and and B levels to normal, then the body will kick back up and start producing
01:21:43
the um everything it needs. Yes, >> I guess the scientific consensus at the moment is saying that there's not a link
01:21:50
between vitamin D and a vitamin B well it's saying that vitamin D does not cause a a vitamin B deficiency.
01:21:58
>> Correct. >> And you disagree with that? >> Absolutely. >> And now could it be the case that
01:22:02
there's some intermediary like i.e. if I take if I take lots of vitamin D, it disrupts my magnesium production and the
01:22:11
magnesium production is having an impact on vitamin B. And could it be the case that it's something else?
01:22:16
>> Yes, of course. >> Okay. >> And in fact, it's way more complicated than you and I have talked about. And
01:22:25
where you finally arrive is actually at co-enzyme A deficiency. And that is a very important chemical.
01:22:33
It runs our mitochondrial health and our ability to make energy. And it's linked
01:22:39
to all the degenerative diseases etc. So, it's not that I don't understand the idea that once
01:22:51
you're a hammer, everything's a nail because that's what I was told by all of my colleagues that you're trying to
01:22:57
explain everything. It's that I saw Meline go back to work and we haven't even talked about what happened to
01:23:04
Natalie. >> What happened to Natalie? Natalie got better and actually how >> she first with the D like most of the
01:23:13
patients she started to sleep better but at the end of two years she stopped sleeping better. She actually lost
01:23:20
weight which was the case with several of the women that were postpartum who had complained about that. So in some my
01:23:27
interpretation was in someone who is less affected than Meline was the DB50 combination especially in the setting of
01:23:36
being after the pregnancy is really all somebody who was relatively normal at the start of their life needs
01:23:44
and then she got better. Her anti-depressant went away. Her postpartum depression cleared her high
01:23:52
heart rate. So the other thing that we didn't mention is many of these women who are very interested in exercise and
01:23:57
doing exercise had high heart rates of 110 or above sitting quietly and had not been like that before. Their high heart
01:24:05
rates come down. So she came back to being her normal self again >> and did she have to come off the vitamin
01:24:12
B? >> She only took it for 3 months. >> Okay. And >> and then she did a multivitamin and then
01:24:17
eventually almost everybody needs to be off the multivitamin completely. It is my belief that if all of this happens
01:24:25
spontaneously in every other animal on the planet, then we shouldn't have to take
01:24:30
supplements either. The squirrels are not going to GNC to buy supplements. That means if there's a mistake made
01:24:37
like we move indoors and we give back what is needed to get the normal microbiome,
01:24:44
then you should assume that your body will go back to supporting itself. And Natalie's she's good again.
01:24:52
>> Natalie's back to being a triathlete and doing great. >> If we zoom out for a second, what is the
01:24:59
advice you'll give to all of my listeners now? There might be millions of them all over the world. Some of
01:25:02
which are struggling with sleep. Some of them just want to, you know, optimize their sleep a little bit. What is the
01:25:07
the over overarching advice, the thing that all of them could could do to make sure they sleep better in your view?
01:25:12
>> One, do the behavioral cognitive stuff first. Make the bike out curtains. Do the whole thing. If you haven't done
01:25:20
that with the eye cover, then go ahead and do that. And if that's all you need, do not mess around with supplements.
01:25:29
Two, if you've already done the behavioral changes, then go to my website, read about the
01:25:36
ideas, or listen to this podcast, and see whether or not the ideas there feel like they apply to you.
01:25:43
>> You've come up with this protocol called the right sleep protocol. What is that?
01:25:48
And can you walk me through it? >> Sure. So, the right sleep program is a process of taking your D to a certain
01:25:55
level, supplementing B12 if your B12 is at a certain level below a certain level,
01:26:02
taking B50 for 3 months, and then taking a multivitamin. And that is until your body says, gee, I
01:26:10
might need more bees. This is a diagram. And you have a beautiful step-wise visual assist here. The first 3 months,
01:26:23
if your B12 is low, you will take B12 as a separate supplement. And keep in mind,
01:26:27
there's a lot to be learned about multivitamins. For instance, many multivitamins say multivitamin on the
01:26:34
front, but they actually have the equivalent of B50 in them. They have 50 milligrams of all these B vitamins. In
01:26:41
fact, if you go to an expensive vitamin store, they put up the doses of bees. The doses of these vitamins are
01:26:49
extremely important for the way you feel every day. If you get it right, you feel
01:26:55
energetic, perky, and wonderful all day. If you get it wrong, you feel awful in the same way you did before. You have to
01:27:00
look at the back. You have to learn some of the name of these vitamins. Most people are not that interested in that.
01:27:05
If you want to get better, that's what you have to do. So, the first step is you're taking all four of these. Then
01:27:12
in the second step for a period of usually 3 to 4 months, you're still taking B12 if you were B12 deficient.
01:27:22
You're still taking vitamin D and you're adjusting your vitamin D dosing based on
01:27:27
recommendations based on your D levels that you're doing every month. And I show you how to get them done properly
01:27:34
because the vitamin D levels that your doctor is doing are not accurate, unfortunately. nor do they know that or
01:27:40
care and you're still taking a multivitamin. Then after [clears throat] the three months that are depicted here,
01:27:50
it turns out if your sleep is much better, you will actually get to a place where
01:27:59
your body will stop sleeping well again. And it turns out that your brain is asking for more additional bees. The
01:28:08
basic bottom line is the sleep is a thing that once you learn how to use it and once you learn the concept that if
01:28:17
in the third or fourth month of this program, my sleep gets much better and then in the sixth month it gets worse
01:28:25
again, what you should take from that is my brain really knows how to do this. It
01:28:30
was able to get me to sleep from 10 to 6 with one brief wake up. Went back to sleep. didn't get up to pee and I have
01:28:39
no pain when I wake up and I feel energetic all day long. It knows how to do that. When it doesn't do it again two
01:28:46
months later, the message is not, "Oh man, I knew it wouldn't work cuz everything else I've tried didn't work."
01:28:53
Instead, it means what my brain is asking for is something else. Then you address that.
01:29:03
On my website, I also have multiple videos of Q&As's addressing questions like, I'm in the fifth month and this
01:29:11
happened to me, etc. So, what I would give as advice is one, supplementation is only good for you if there's
01:29:20
something wrong with you that you're trying to correct. Two, keep a log of what happens to that
01:29:27
thing because we tend to forget. All my headache patients forget that they had headaches when they go away. That's
01:29:35
challenging to a clinician because they come back and they say, "Yeah, I still have headaches." And then their husband
01:29:41
says, "Wait, we were in Vegas two weeks ago and you said we didn't you didn't have any headaches at all." And she
01:29:47
says, "Oh, I know, but they're back now." We view it as it should have fixed me and now it hasn't. This is a
01:29:53
different belief system where the answer is your brain is asking you for something. interpreting [clears throat]
01:29:59
what it's asking for is difficult but possible. >> So number one was >> if you do not have something wrong with
01:30:06
you, do not mess with supplements, especially D. >> Number two is keep a log. >> Read more. Think about it. Think about
01:30:14
it a little bit. Think about whether or not there are things that are bothering you.
01:30:17
>> Okay. Number three. Number three is if there's something bothering you, then decide you're actually going to take
01:30:23
some time and you're going to learn about a system which allows you to give supplements that lets your body be fully
01:30:32
replete, which means fills up all the deficiencies. And that's your final outcome will be great sleep, great
01:30:40
repair, and you will be doing things that will allow your body to prevent >> degenerative illness. Why don't you
01:30:47
just, you know, why don't I just instead of taking supplements or be this, be that, be the other, D, whatever, why
01:30:53
don't I just go outside in the sun and have a better diet? >> I think that's a a great question. And
01:31:01
here's the problem. >> So, I've got, you know, I've got all these things, these wonderful things
01:31:04
here. I've got I've got some kimchi, which is good for the gut microbiome. I've heard I've got kombucha. I've got
01:31:13
uh some yogurt thing here. I've got I can't even pronounce that. Sauerkraut. >> Sauerkraut. And I've got some caffier.
01:31:18
Why don't I just have all this stuff, which is great for my gut microbiome, and then go outside and spend spend the
01:31:25
morning in the sunshine getting up improving my vitamin D levels. Presumably, this is going to help my gut
01:31:29
and the sunshine is going to help my vitamin D. Voila. >> I think you could actually do that. If
01:31:35
there's not much wrong with you, I think that's the better path. Frankly, supplementing with vitamin D is not the
01:31:42
same as being outdoors. >> Okay, explain. not the same. >> What do you mean it's not the same? How
01:31:46
is it different? >> Cuz my doctor did a blood test recently and uh I did two blood tests. One at
01:31:51
Nikico Health # #investor. Um, Nico Health. And the Nico Health test that I did said I was vitamin D deficient,
01:31:59
which doesn't surprise me cuz I live in this dark bunker. I I never leave the driver studio. People just walk in and I
01:32:05
live in here and I eat in here and I But I am vitamin D deficient, it said. So I
01:32:09
went to the store and I just started taking vitamin D. I assume that's fixed it.
01:32:13
Why is vitamin D supplementation different from being out in the sun? >> There is a lot of literature about by a
01:32:19
gal named Stephanie Senf who says that the vitamin D that we make on our sk skin is sulfated which is different than
01:32:26
the vitamin D we're taking a supplemented and it has a different behavior in the body. Number two, it
01:32:32
turns out there's a lot of literature that shows that vitamin D is not the only thing made by UVB hitting your your
01:32:38
skin. And what it's hitting is cholesterol. And that cholesterol has changed in this chemical called D3.
01:32:45
But there are probably 15 20 other chemicals that are being made at the same time.
01:32:52
>> Okay, >> they are not being taken with that pill of vitamin D3. That is a separate
01:32:58
literature that's just gotten really some attention in the last 10 years. There are all these other things that
01:33:05
prevent inflammation that do things to your skin that were actually being made by the sunlight that you're being
01:33:12
exposed to that protects you from the damaging effects. >> So why can't someone who is really
01:33:18
struggling with their sleep, why can't the prescription just be improve your diet?
01:33:23
>> Have you tried that with patients? Oh, you said you No, >> one of the reasons why these are
01:33:29
effective >> the the the >> the fermented foods. Okay, fermented food means you're eating rotting food.
01:33:37
That's not the way we call it because it sounds disgusting. Okay, but bacteria are growing in here. Yeah.
01:33:45
>> And they're secretreting things like B vitamins and rutery. They're making a yeast bacterial mixture. So there's
01:33:52
fungus growing in there. There are viruses in there. There are many microbiomes.
01:33:57
>> Microbes. >> Microbes. Thank you. >> Look at me. [snorts] Look at me. >> Awesome.
01:34:01
>> That means you're eating bacteria. You're basically eating a food that has to be 50 in it,
01:34:08
>> which is great. >> Yeah. So, >> so why don't you give >> because I have no idea what the time
01:34:13
frame will be for this having that success for you. This is the easy way. This is the fast way. This is the way I
01:34:21
can tell you that I've had more experience with my clients over time. And if you want to fix something that's
01:34:28
really badly off, by the time you get a sleep disorder, >> for those that can't see because they're
01:34:32
just listening on audio, you're pointing at the vitamins. >> I'm pointing at the vitamins and the
01:34:36
step-wise approach, which is the fast and easy approach. >> Exactly. And if you don't want to use
01:34:41
supplements, I would support you all the way >> in doing what? >> In going outside, just what you've
01:34:46
described. I think the healthier approach to all of our diseases is to be outside much more and to include these
01:34:56
fermented foods. >> Now, on this point of being outside much more, some people live in cloudy places.
01:35:01
You know, I spent a lot of my life living in places like London in the UK. Exactly.
01:35:04
>> And there's not much sunlight, >> right? >> So, what do I do about that? >> Remember how I said that Meline was a
01:35:09
redhead? >> Yeah. >> That turns out to be important. So, melanin is the pigment that humans have
01:35:15
in their skin. M >> you have more than I do. I put more melanin as I stay out in the sun more
01:35:21
and I tan. [clears throat] >> That melanin is absorbing energy. It's there to protect you from overexposure
01:35:29
to sunlight and damaging effects on the DNA of your skin. The red head gene usually comes with freckles which means
01:35:37
that there is only little tiny parts of the skin that have melanin. And the redhead gene came about in the
01:35:44
far north Viking Scotland. And those places don't get much sunlight. That means it cleared out the
01:35:53
blocker of the thing that collected that energy and allowed people who lived in very overcast environments to make D
01:36:03
because the melanin didn't block the conversion to vitamin D and all these other things that it does. So redheads
01:36:09
actually have a bit of a superpower when it comes to their relationship with the
01:36:12
sunshine, they can make significantly more. >> That depends. Now, if you pick up all
01:36:17
the Scotsmen and you put them in Texas and Oklahoma, which is where I live, and many of the people there have red hair
01:36:26
and they came from Scotsman, the problem is they're now in an environment with very high sun levels. It's very hot in
01:36:33
the summer and they cannot tolerate the level of sun. That means if you get to a
01:36:39
point on the world where you pick up big populations and you move them into another weather type, they have not had
01:36:45
enough time to adapt. There are things about melanin amounts and our survival that make a difference.
01:36:53
So I still recommend that supplementing with D is not the whole answer. Supplementation in and of itself is not
01:37:00
what we want. What we want is our kids to be outside much more. There are now new learning environments for kids where
01:37:07
they're out in the forest, where they're not enclosed in school rooms. There's some interesting stats I found which
01:37:14
says that 90% of Americans spend close to 22 hours inside every day. That was from USA Today. And roughly 20% of
01:37:23
Americans never go outside regularly spending 24 hours indoors. And downstream from vitamin D, there's
01:37:31
not just sleep disruption. There's lots of problems, isn't there? Yes, >> I can start listing them and they're all
01:37:36
related in the background to what we've talked about. But diabetes, even though you've had lots of really interesting
01:37:43
shows about that, diabetes is happening in parallel with the sleep disorder. It's not caused by the sleep disorder.
01:37:51
It has similar chemical in the background. There are many types, but diabetes just means there's a mismatch
01:37:58
between the amount of insulin from the amount of sugar. Let me say that I'm not trying to say
01:38:05
that America doesn't eat badly. America eats badly. I was just in Europe and that eating patterns in the US are
01:38:13
terrible. But there are other things that are playing a role and diabetes shows up. Remember how Meline had
01:38:22
gestational diabetes and so did this wonderful Natalie who did everything we told her to. Why would
01:38:30
Natalie show up with gestational diabetes when she's not fat? Her supply of this thing called co-enzyme A
01:38:38
is not enough to keep up with supplying the child and herself. So for a while she really has a deficiency state and
01:38:46
you start to see it. We've learn to measure the sugar and the measuring the sugar is one of the signs of a
01:38:54
deficiency state that's in the background that actually affects a hundred things in the body. It makes
01:38:59
acetylcholine which allows our whole autonomic nervous system to sleep nor to react normally. So it affects all of
01:39:06
those things that we do is when we're training and it also affects cortisol levels. You must have co-enzyme A to
01:39:12
make cortisol. You must have co-enzyme A to make melatonin. >> So the things linked to vitamin D are
01:39:18
everything from bone disorders, autoimmune diseases, mental health, brain disorders, cardiovascular,
01:39:22
metabolic issues, immune infections, and then certain cancers. I I I imagine at this stage in the conversation the
01:39:27
audience are very much looking for like actionable advice. So we've talked about
01:39:32
the the right sleep protocol which is this sort of vitamin approach and then the other approach is to get outside in
01:39:41
the sunshine more >> and you don't have to be in direct sunlight. >> You have to be in direct sunlight to
01:39:46
make vitamin D on your skin. >> Okay? >> But you should limit the amount that you
01:39:50
do so you do not burn your skin. that it's [clears throat] important that UVA, if you're going to use a um go to a
01:39:57
tanning salon, if they're using UVA, you are not making vitamin D from that. So,
01:40:02
there are different kinds of beds. UVA will still tan you, but it will not make D.
01:40:07
>> So, you don't have to be in direct sunlight. So, if I'm at a window and I can't see the sun and it's overcast, am
01:40:13
I still making vitamin D? >> No, you can't make anything through the window. >> Okay. So, what I go outside, I can't see
01:40:19
the sun cuz there's clouds. I'm still making vitamin D. >> Maybe it can be that you will actually
01:40:25
still get a burn. Okay, that is from UVA and UVB penetrating that cloud. >> Okay,
01:40:33
>> so that does mean that you can make some vitamin D on a day that it's cloudy.
01:40:39
And the only way to know how much vitamin D you are actually making is to do your vitamin D levels over time.
01:40:45
Looking at some data here, it says that um you can make a little bit of vitamin D during overcast times. Um up to 80% of
01:40:53
UV radiation still penetrates light cloud cover. So, you can absolutely still make vitamin D, though it might
01:40:58
take a few minutes longer than it would on a completely clear day. When it's thick, dark, and overcast, or dense
01:41:03
storms or clouds, that can block up to 70 to 90% of UVB rays. On these days, it's incredibly difficult for your skin
01:41:10
to produce any meaningful amount of vitamin D. You know these like lamps that they put on desks and stuff? Can
01:41:16
you get vitamin D from that? >> No. But make let me make you a point here that's not in my field but in the
01:41:21
infrared field. There are so many other wavelengths of energy that you receive when you're
01:41:27
outside. So you can be sitting on a porch where you're not in direct sunlight and you are still receiving
01:41:32
infrared. And infrared is one of the most important uh wavelengths that we know about that
01:41:40
penetrates the body several centimeters and actually gives energy to the mitochondria. Our bodies are like little
01:41:47
batteries that we receive energy from sunlight and we can do that sitting on the porch without being in direct
01:41:53
sunlight. and fire. Also, the reason why it looks red is because it has infrared
01:41:59
and incandescent bulbs, which we've now stopped using. >> So, what's the advice here?
01:42:04
>> Some people believe that you should use incandescent bulbs on a lamp that's on
01:42:08
your desk. The problem is >> incandescent bulb, >> it gives you rays of light. like LED is
01:42:13
an electron um producing light source which the government has suggested that is better
01:42:23
than incandescent lights. It's very difficult to buy incandescent bulbs like the bulbs that we used to use. Now
01:42:30
you'll get H hallogen or LEDs and they do not give off infrared light uh energy. So, an incandescent bulb is the
01:42:38
old school glass light bulbs. Um, the kind Thomas Edison used to use. It creates light by running an electrical
01:42:44
current through a metal filament until it gets so hot that it glows. Because it relies on raw heat, an incandescent bulb
01:42:49
bulb behaves exactly like a miniature fire or a tiny piece of the sun. H. So, yeah, those incandescent bulbs are hard
01:42:56
harder to come by these days, but yeah, my fiance, she's a big fan of them. >> Yeah.
01:43:00
>> And she's trying to fill our house with them. >> Yeah, she's right. >> So, is there anything else? You know,
01:43:05
also I've got these prebiotics here. Prebiotics. Probiotics. A lot of people say that you should take prebiotics.
01:43:10
Probiotics. Have you tried giving them to your patients? >> I was on probiotics and so are my
01:43:14
patients when we started and it had not corrected the microbiome. It was just a try. We're going to dump the bacteria
01:43:19
down there and maybe they'll get back to normal. Okay. That is what a probiotic is considered. They have the actual
01:43:27
bacteria freeze-dried and you eat the bacteria. kind of gross when you think about it as being poop bacteria, but
01:43:35
that's what it is. Okay. Now, what prebiotic has that's different is that you feed the bacteria and they feed you.
01:43:44
That's really what happens. What I love about this is there are different things
01:43:49
that they're feeding the bacteria. We're kind of interested in what they think. How do we know what they think? Well,
01:43:56
what if I change to carnivore and all of a sudden my belly gas goes away? >> The carnivore diet where you just eat
01:44:04
meat >> carniv mostly meat. Let's say 90% meat and most of my belly complaints go away
01:44:11
and I poop regularly. Then you've just been very successful at making your bacteria very happy.
01:44:18
What if the next client who I have is a mostly plant-based? Then I have to change the way I think
01:44:27
and the way I help them and encourage them to recognize that when we're feeding mostly plant-based, we have a
01:44:35
different set of bacteria. Now, let me propose something to you. Humans cover the globe like cockroaches.
01:44:43
We are very successful and we have a hugely varied diet. I would claim that that means you should eat the diet that
01:44:53
works for you. The place where you see something that is really important for the US is the
01:45:00
original articles about vitamin deficiency states were in two groups that ate a pure carbohydrate diet. So
01:45:07
the claim right now for most the people that are interested in healthy diets is if you eat a fully carbohydrate diet,
01:45:15
you're set up for failure in a million different ways. And then they talk about the diet you should eat. There are two
01:45:21
incidences from the 1940s where the first vitamin deficiency states were described and both of them
01:45:27
turn out to be purely carbohydrate diets. One of them was in the Japanese prisoner of war camps and the batan
01:45:35
[clears throat] death march in World War II where they had rice, rice, rice. That's it. And they're outside all the
01:45:44
time. They're not vitamin D deficient. They're discovered to have berry berry. And berry berry is an old disease
01:45:50
described in Japan when you take off the rice casing. So ultimately they gave back meat and vegetables and berry berry
01:45:59
is described as heart failure, non-healing ulcers of the legs, bright shiny red skin and burning in the feet
01:46:07
that we see in the elderly in the US all the time in the hospital that is now ignored. But you can
01:46:16
actually get to a state where you're feeding only carbohydrates. But now the lens you're looking through is I was
01:46:22
feeding my bacteria a purely carbohydrate diet. I therefore selected for bacterial populations that were not
01:46:30
producing the B vitamins that I needed. It's seeing it through a slightly different lens. The same thing about
01:46:37
pelagra which is actually a niacin deficiency in adults and children that were institutionalized in the south of
01:46:44
the United States in the 30s and 40s and fed corn grl as their only food. So there's still a piece of information
01:46:54
there that is your diet absolutely affects who lives inside you. And once you have a purely carbohydrate diet for
01:47:03
many years and you're D deficient, it is very likely you're going to have to do something more aggressive,
01:47:09
either change your diet and do fermented foods and change to a meat and plant diet and you're going to have to watch
01:47:17
what your body does. And if you're not able and in and my claim would still be the sleep that you have should still be
01:47:24
your best measure of whether you've succeeded in what you'd like to do. >> And again, to track your sleep, there's
01:47:31
lots of different ways to do that. Obviously, none of them are perfect. Um, but you can buy sleep trackers and those
01:47:36
kinds of things and see how you're doing. >> Yes. And I would also say use your sleep
01:47:42
tracker. I don't use mine regularly because I get obsessed by it. I I start to think, "Oh, I only had an hour and a
01:47:49
half of RAM. I'm dying." And I just get spiral downward. Okay. So, what your body is saying to you is still very
01:47:56
important. I didn't have sleep trackers when I was seeing all these things that were happening to Meline and and
01:48:01
Natalie. I would listen to what they said about their sleep. >> I imagine a lot of people clicked on
01:48:07
this conversation because they are struggling with sleep or they have a partner or friend or maybe just because
01:48:11
they want to optimize their sleep a little bit. And what I've really taken away is that um a lot of sleep related
01:48:17
issues start in the gut microbiome. Yes. So we want to try and fix the gut microbiome. And how we fix the gut
01:48:22
microbiome is can be dietary. It can be through supplementation. >> But we want to try and do it through
01:48:27
diet first and fermented foods. >> Um and then the other thing is sunlight plays a big role. You're smoking again.
01:48:34
>> You're doing a fabulous job. >> Oh, you're so sweet. Um the other the other thing is sunlight plays a big role
01:48:39
because it produces vitamin D and amongst other things which also can improve that balance and help us sleep
01:48:45
better. >> Yes. >> And we also want to try the stuff that everybody talks about Matthew Walker
01:48:49
talks about temperature and >> yes >> eye masks and all that kind of stuff. I guess the big insight here is that
01:48:54
vitamins play a really important role in sleep. >> Yes. >> As you've seen through the thousands of
01:49:00
patients that you've spent time with and helped to uh restore to a healthy sleep
01:49:05
state. >> Yes. That's a beautiful summary. >> What is the most important thing we
01:49:08
haven't talked about that we should have talked about? Is there anything at all?
01:49:12
>> We have skipped the people who have been told they have a disease narcolepsy or sleep apnoa
01:49:22
um where they're told there's a specific this is a genetic thing and you have to
01:49:28
do these specific things. For instance, for narcolepsy, this is an attack of sleep that takes
01:49:34
you out and you become I'm sitting here talking to you and I fall asleep. That turns out to be
01:49:43
treatable in the same way. >> You're saying a lot of it can be about vitamins. >> Yes, you can sleep deprive anyone to the
01:49:49
point of falling asleep when I talk to you. All you have to do is, you know, two or three nights that you miss and
01:49:54
you can still become taken down by an attack of sleep. That really is what narcolepsy means. That means medicine in
01:50:02
its attempt to classify things have said this is a disease and the idea that they
01:50:09
are all about our body falling out of its normal state. What's different about people who have
01:50:19
that a a specific diagnosis like sleep apnnea and narcopsy is they are unlikely to be able to cure that with going
01:50:26
outside and kimchi. They are at an end stage. Your body was really set up to be able to deal with different diets,
01:50:35
getting up in the middle of the night, take care of your baby, traveling long periods of time, all these stressors
01:50:41
that we've had for the last 300,000 years. It was set up to do that and to get back to sleeping again.
01:50:50
And people lived for long periods of time. That wasn't the average, but there were people that lived to be 75 years
01:50:55
old 20,000 years ago. That means that's the best we can do. If you have a disease of your sleep switches, you are
01:51:05
really severely affected. And my experience would say that that person is not going to be able to approach it by
01:51:13
just going outside and doing kimchi. That person is going to need some extra help and they're going to need sometimes
01:51:21
professional help with someone who's seeing it through this lens because they go through changes. They
01:51:27
for instance when when you get them a little bit better so that they're sleeping at night, they
01:51:33
actually start to have nightmares. What that means in a setting like that is they've actually gotten into REM
01:51:40
sleep, but they haven't gotten perfect chemistry so that they sleep through the REM
01:51:47
phase, finish up, go into light sleep, and then go to the next. They've awakened, so they can't keep themselves
01:51:53
in REM. There are transition states where they actually feel like they're getting worse. So, there are all sorts
01:51:59
of things that I've been able to see that are not talked about at the sleep meetings that are totally fascinating
01:52:05
that are halfway better and that people can cure their narcopsy. I have one gal right now who just called me to become a
01:52:15
client. She has narcopsy and she has completely cured herself by using nicotine patches around the clock.
01:52:24
Why? because there is only one drug that duplicates acetylcholine completely and
01:52:30
it's nicotine. So she stopped smoking and she uses nicotine patches. Nicotine is the
01:52:38
duplicate of acetylcholine. Acetylcholine allows us to focus, pay attention, be distracted, and come right
01:52:45
back during the day. It is in control of our ability to concentrate. At night, it
01:52:52
allows us to get into REM sleep. That one chemical does wake and sleep, doesn't it, in different parts of the
01:52:58
brain. That means she is using something that has been terribly vilified. Tobacco is
01:53:04
considered to be the cause of all evil. It turns out, oddly enough, the guys with Parkinson's disease who smoked
01:53:12
throughout the last 30 years have been shown to do better because Parkinson's disease is an acetylcholine deficiency
01:53:19
state. First >> to give a bit of background on I guess the the problem we've really talked
01:53:22
about. Um I have this little paragraph here which I thought summarizes the nature of the problem and the sleep
01:53:28
epidemic. It says while while industrialization first disrupted our natural rhythms by moving society
01:53:34
indoors, the true explosion of sleep disorders occurred in two modern phases. A medical boom in the 1980s and a
01:53:40
digital epidemic in the 2000s. In the 1980s, the formal recognition of sleep medicine and the intervention of the
01:53:46
CPAP machine diagnosed millions with obstructive sleep apnea, sparking a surge in clinical treatments. The
01:53:53
medicalization transformed into into a cultural crisis by the 2000s as sedentary indoor lifestyles starved us
01:54:01
of natural daytime sunlight. Sunlight exposure is vital because its high-intensity brightness resets the
01:54:07
brain's master internal clock and suppresses daytime melatonin, which establishes a definitive biological
01:54:13
countdown for deep sleep at night. Deprived of this anchoring cue and bombarded by a 24/7 hustle culture and
01:54:21
smartphones pumping blue light into our bedrooms, society succumbed to a devastating double-edged sword. too
01:54:28
little sun by day to synchronize the brain and too much artificial light by night to allow it to rest. The modern
01:54:34
circadian mismatch culminated in an acute spike during the 2020 pandemic lockdowns, solidifying an era where our
01:54:42
indoor environments are fundamentally at war with our evolutionary sleep biology.
01:54:46
>> I love that. Who wrote that? Is that AI? >> It was AI that wrote that. >> Yeah. Now, that's the fascinating part
01:54:53
of this. AI doesn't care whether or not my colleagues think I'm crazy. AI is not
01:54:59
affected by what the endocrine society says about D. AI is just giving us the raw data. Okay. Then if you put in there
01:55:09
something like what does Dr. Gmanac think about whether or not um sun exposure is the whole story for sleep?
01:55:16
you'll start to see my stuff leaking through there saying, "Yes, it's true that the pineal gland makes melatonin
01:55:23
and that that's part of how we get to the 1000 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., but it's also true that vitamin D has receptors
01:55:30
in the brain stem. That means that we are at the edge of about a big change where some of these ideas
01:55:40
that we talked about today that are very deep and very wide are going to be there
01:55:45
available in a beautifully written way by AI. And I think in this particular case we've
01:55:52
jumped around medicine and its craziness and its conservative feeling. It's been taken over by an
01:56:03
an electronic thing that's not affected by our cultural ideals of who's smart and who's not.
01:56:09
>> What is the central idea that you believe that most of the mainstream industry don't believe? I will I will do
01:56:14
as you say and I will ask the AI. Most of the sleep disorders including sleep apnea, narcolepsy, all the ones that the
01:56:21
neurologists have described are really related at basis by D and multiple things that are made by the microbiome
01:56:29
that the microbiome and the D deficiency are very much linked and that there are
01:56:34
hundreds of things that are playing a role in our sleep switches that are supplied by the microbiome.
01:56:40
So, I'll I'll summarize that as are many of the sleep disorders caused by the microbiome.
01:56:50
I'm using Gemini Pro, which is the most advanced model. I always use it for factecking and stuff. So, it says you
01:56:58
are completely wrong. I'm joking. Didn't say that. [laughter] It says yes, the connection is massive.
01:57:07
While we can't say the microbiome is the sole cause of every sleep disorder, scientists now know that a damaged gut
01:57:13
is a major hidden driver of poor sleep because both the melatonin pipeline starts in the gut. Manufacturing the
01:57:21
calm down chemical is in the gut and the cortisol alarm system is linked to the gut. The trickiest part of the
01:57:29
microbiome sleep connection is that it is a birectional loop. A bad microbiome causes poor sleep. Poor sleep alters the
01:57:37
microbiome. So, while anatomical issues like a narrow airway causes sleep apnnea, or light mismatch, like the lack
01:57:44
of near infrared light, play huge roles, fixing chronic insomnia often requires healing the gut just as much as fixing
01:57:51
your bedtime routine. >> The lack of near infrared light, that's amazing. Medicine will [clears throat]
01:57:58
not be talking about that anytime soon. It's too wacky. It's too woo woo. And yet that means
01:58:07
those ideas are available to us. >> We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a
01:58:13
question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is more Yeah, I
01:58:17
guess it is a question. It says, "Describe the best day of your life." I I'm gonna have to stick with what pops
01:58:34
into my mind first, which is relatively recently. Uh we were in Sevilla, I think, and it was very hot
01:58:46
and my husband and I have been traveling for three or four weeks together, which
01:58:50
is the longest time we've spent together in a long time. And we were sitting playing canasta
01:58:55
outside underneath an umbrella that had little misters. And we were just sitting
01:59:02
there playing canasta together. And it's not about it was not about accomplishment. It was about having this
01:59:11
marvelous circumstance where we're just hanging out together and having a very pleasant time together. That was my my
01:59:22
best day recent memory. [snorts] >> Dr. Stasha, where should people go to learn more from you?
01:59:30
>> Dr. Gmanac, no period after DR.com and I have a YouTube channel where I have lots of I have a whole series of 50
01:59:39
things called sleep chats where I talk about if I have carpal tunnel syndrome, will right sleep program help me? I have
01:59:47
this well right and why >> I'll link all of that for you below so everybody can go to those resources.
01:59:53
They'll be in linked in the description below of this episode. >> Thank you so much.
01:59:59
>> Thank you. >> Wonderful to talk about YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you
02:00:05
would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the
02:00:13
perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out. I bet you, you might
02:00:18
love it.