00:00:00
Trump threw the election and then
00:00:01
thereafter said that
00:00:02
>> Canada should honestly become our 51st
00:00:04
state
00:00:07
>> which is never going to happen.
00:00:09
>> Pierre Polyv, leader of his majesty's
00:00:11
loyal opposition. There's a significant
00:00:13
probability that you could be Canada's
00:00:14
next leader and your team said I can ask
00:00:17
you whatever I want.
00:00:18
>> Okay.
00:00:19
>> So it appears that the United States
00:00:21
have made the decision to kind of go it
00:00:22
alone in the world
00:00:23
>> and that is a very big strategic
00:00:25
mistake. In Canada's case, we have
00:00:27
everything the United States needs if
00:00:29
they treat us like a friend. So, for
00:00:30
example, we have the fourth biggest
00:00:32
supply of oil. And if you look at the
00:00:34
leading five, which of these countries
00:00:36
do you think the United States can most
00:00:38
rely on?
00:00:39
>> And I'm looking at the third vial there
00:00:40
in the row, Iran.
00:00:41
>> Mhm.
00:00:42
>> Has Trump taken the right course of
00:00:43
action?
00:00:44
>> The Iranian government has been
00:00:45
extremely hostile and very dangerous to
00:00:47
Canada. They are the leading world
00:00:49
sponsor of terrorism. And there's no
00:00:51
doubt in my mind that the only reason
00:00:52
that they are enriching uranium is for
00:00:55
the purpose of developing a weapon. And
00:00:57
there's a far greater risk to them
00:00:59
having a nuclear weapon than even North
00:01:00
Korea. So the initial actions were
00:01:02
definitely necessary.
00:01:04
>> But how do you think this plays out? And
00:01:05
if Trump had called you and asked for
00:01:06
your support, would you have given it?
00:01:08
>> Well, let let's put it this way.
00:01:11
>> What is the thing that you're most
00:01:12
concerned about?
00:01:13
>> We're overt taxing our population. We're
00:01:14
punishing initiative. We have 20,000
00:01:17
immigrant doctors who can't work in
00:01:18
medicine. Wages have been destroyed.
00:01:20
Young people can't start a family in
00:01:22
this economy. And that is why the
00:01:24
working class across the Western world
00:01:26
is so angry. The good news is we can
00:01:28
reverse all of that.
00:01:29
>> And the other thing that I actually was
00:01:30
really keen to talk about is this.
00:01:32
>> Wow.
00:01:35
>> I can see the emotion in your face.
00:01:36
>> Yeah.
00:01:37
>> It's still there.
00:01:39
>> Yeah. I hadn't thought about that in a
00:01:40
while.
00:01:50
This is super interesting to me. My team
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gave me this report to show me how many
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And some of you have told us according
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now if you've hit the subscribe button
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I'll make sure every single week, every
00:02:28
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help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get
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on with the show.
00:02:48
Pierre Polyv, leader of his majesty's
00:02:52
loyal opposition. There is so much I
00:02:54
want to talk to you about. I think you
00:02:55
have a truly fascinating formative
00:02:58
childhood. One of which I've I've really
00:03:01
seldom seen on this show, especially
00:03:03
when the person rises so high in their
00:03:06
political ambitions. But I think the
00:03:09
most appropriate thing to start with
00:03:10
because it's just front of mind for me
00:03:11
at the moment is what the hell is going
00:03:14
on in the world?
00:03:17
And I mean that's genuinely I'm I'm up
00:03:19
all night trying to figure out if we're
00:03:20
on the verge of World War II. What's
00:03:23
going on with all these alliances we
00:03:24
used to have? What is going on in the
00:03:26
world?
00:03:26
>> The history of starts really in the
00:03:29
post-war period with a massive increase
00:03:31
in the power and the wealth of the
00:03:33
United States. They unleashed the
00:03:35
capitalist system. They effectively
00:03:37
buried the Soviet Union just by out
00:03:39
hustling, out producing and out
00:03:42
outgrowing until the Soviet Union
00:03:44
collapsed. And then a new authoritarian
00:03:47
power snuck up on the United States.
00:03:50
China went from having 80% of its
00:03:52
population living on one less than a
00:03:54
dollar a day to being the second biggest
00:03:56
economy in the world. At the same time,
00:03:58
uh, the American working class has been
00:04:01
thoroughly screwed over by relentless
00:04:04
money printing that has inflated their
00:04:06
cost of living while also inflating the
00:04:08
wealth of of a small group of elites.
00:04:11
And I think this resulted in a major
00:04:12
push back. Now, some of that was
00:04:14
justified. That push back is justified,
00:04:16
but I also think some of it is very much
00:04:18
unjustified. Tariffing countries like
00:04:20
Canada makes no sense. uh if you're the
00:04:23
United States, you should want more
00:04:24
friends, more trade with those friends.
00:04:27
And that's one of the reasons why I've
00:04:28
been touring the United States to make
00:04:30
the case for Canada and to remind our
00:04:33
American friends that they are stronger
00:04:35
working with countries like Canada and
00:04:37
the United Kingdom than they are pushing
00:04:40
those natural allies away.
00:04:42
>> It appears that the United States have
00:04:44
made the decision to kind of go it alone
00:04:46
in the world. I mean, I was at Davos and
00:04:48
I saw what Trump said. I saw a variety
00:04:52
of things in the leadup to there talking
00:04:53
about taking Greenland, turning Canada
00:04:55
into one of the United States 51st
00:04:57
states. Is that what he said? 51st
00:05:00
state.
00:05:00
>> That's never going to happen.
00:05:02
>> It seems to be very adversarial. And
00:05:04
through my childhood and through my
00:05:05
adulthood, over the last 30 years, the
00:05:08
US has always been the strong ally, not
00:05:10
an individualistic isolated force in the
00:05:12
world. What's what's going on here?
00:05:15
>> I think that is a very big strategic
00:05:17
mistake. Uh I think America would be
00:05:19
better off working with the the
00:05:21
traditional Western alliance that helped
00:05:22
win the Cold War. Uh we had a very big
00:05:25
menace as a nuclear armed Soviet Union
00:05:27
that was expansionary. Its empire was
00:05:30
pushing eastward into Europe and the
00:05:33
response of the United States was to
00:05:36
build a strong NATO alliance and then to
00:05:38
unleash its economy to just outproduce
00:05:40
the Soviets and bring them to their
00:05:42
knees. In Canada's case, we have
00:05:44
everything the United States needs uh if
00:05:46
they treat us like a friend. We have the
00:05:49
fourth biggest supply of oil.
00:05:51
>> You can see it here.
00:05:52
>> That's right. We could uh maybe pull
00:05:54
that over here. This is the oil reserves
00:05:57
by country. As you can see, Canada is
00:05:59
number four. And after us is Iraq and
00:06:03
then the United States. But if you look
00:06:05
at the leading five, which of these
00:06:08
countries do you think the United States
00:06:11
can most rely on? Is it Venezuela, Saudi
00:06:14
Arabia, Iran, or Iraq? No, it's Canada.
00:06:18
It works very well with American
00:06:20
refineries and we sell it to the United
00:06:23
States at enormous price discount.
00:06:25
Furthermore, we could build up an
00:06:27
enormous reserve of this oil so that if,
00:06:29
god forbid, the straight of Hormuse were
00:06:32
to be closed, just a random example,
00:06:35
you're from the American America's
00:06:37
friends in neighboring Canada would have
00:06:40
a couple hundred millions barrels that
00:06:43
are already produced and ready for use
00:06:45
uh if uh if it's needed. So this is
00:06:48
really uh kind of rocket fuel for the
00:06:51
Canadian economy, but it's strategically
00:06:53
important for our American friends. We
00:06:56
could cooperate better on this if we got
00:06:58
a friendly posture and a fully
00:07:00
tariff-free trade ar arrangement with
00:07:02
the US. What's interesting when I look
00:07:04
at these uh vials of oil that we have on
00:07:06
the table and I see that Venezuela's
00:07:08
number one, Saudi Arabia is number two,
00:07:09
Iran, Canada, Iraq, and then the US is a
00:07:12
lot of these countries that have a lot
00:07:14
of oil are in conflict with the United
00:07:16
States right now.
00:07:17
>> That's right.
00:07:18
>> And it now as I look at this, it seems
00:07:20
like I understand why. So, Venezuela, I
00:07:22
mean, Trump just flew in and took the
00:07:24
leader of Venezuela and his wife out of
00:07:26
bed and sees the country. Iran, US are
00:07:28
at war with Iran now. Um, Iraq, I mean,
00:07:31
that's a a story already. And Canada has
00:07:34
been the other one where it's been
00:07:35
incredibly adversarial over the last
00:07:36
couple of months. Is this just all about
00:07:38
oil?
00:07:39
>> Frankly, we don't really understand what
00:07:40
the dispute with Canada is about because
00:07:42
we've been a very good and friendly
00:07:44
partner to the United States ever since
00:07:46
the early 1800s before we even formed as
00:07:49
a confederation. What I would say to
00:07:52
Americans though is you shouldn't have
00:07:55
to worry about all of these countries.
00:07:57
If you're working collaboratively with
00:07:59
Canada and you're trading freely with a
00:08:02
a separate country to the north, then
00:08:05
you will not be bound by what happens in
00:08:08
these other less stable and arguably
00:08:11
more hostile countries. What I believe
00:08:13
we as Canadians need to do is use our
00:08:15
natural resources as leverage to get
00:08:19
what we want from this administration
00:08:21
and future ones. What we want is
00:08:24
tariff-free trade for our steel,
00:08:27
aluminum, lumber, and automobiles.
00:08:31
And in exchange for that, we can produce
00:08:33
more oil and sell more of it at better
00:08:36
prices to the United States of America.
00:08:39
Oil is only one part of it. There's also
00:08:41
the strategic minerals that are
00:08:43
necessary for, god forbid, modern
00:08:46
warfare, and we have those as well. We
00:08:48
are a resource superpower, and I want to
00:08:51
leverage that to get what we want from
00:08:53
the US and from other nations.
00:08:56
>> I'm looking at the third vial there in
00:08:57
the row, Iran.
00:08:58
>> Mhm.
00:08:59
>> Has Trump taken the right course of
00:09:01
action in bombing Iran in the way that
00:09:03
he has? And the other question that's I
00:09:05
think on everyone's mind is like, how do
00:09:07
you get out of this? Is is this going to
00:09:10
end? Well,
00:09:11
>> the Iranian government has been
00:09:12
extremely hostile and very dangerous to
00:09:14
Canada. They killed 55 Canadian citizens
00:09:17
and 30 permanent residents by shooting a
00:09:20
civilian aircraft out of the sky, PS752,
00:09:24
uh for reasons we still do not
00:09:26
understand and with no explanation
00:09:27
whatsoever. They have unleashed agents
00:09:30
into our communities and streets to
00:09:32
harass the Jewish and Persian
00:09:34
communities of Canada. and uh they are
00:09:36
the leading world sponsor of terrorism.
00:09:39
It it is absolutely unacceptable for the
00:09:41
Iranian government to ever acquire
00:09:43
nuclear weapons. And there's no doubt in
00:09:45
my mind that the only reason that they
00:09:47
are enriching uranium is for marshall
00:09:50
purposes. There's no need to enrich it
00:09:52
to the degree they have in order just to
00:09:54
have nuclear power plants. I have no
00:09:56
doubt that they were doing it for u the
00:10:00
purpose of developing a weapon and if
00:10:02
that were to happen uh it could be
00:10:04
catastrophic for neighboring countries
00:10:07
but also for far away lands if given the
00:10:10
ability to develop uh long range
00:10:12
missiles. So uh we my view and the view
00:10:15
of the Canadian government is that the
00:10:18
Iranian government cannot be allowed to
00:10:20
develop nuclear weapons and any action
00:10:21
to stop them from doing that is
00:10:23
necessary for world peace. Was this
00:10:25
action necessary to stop that in your
00:10:27
view?
00:10:27
>> I think that the initial actions were
00:10:29
definitely necessary, particularly the
00:10:32
bombings four or five months ago to
00:10:34
target the nuclear development sites.
00:10:37
But I think any actions to degrade their
00:10:39
nuclear capabilities, prevent them from
00:10:41
ever achieving them is favorable. And I
00:10:43
hope that it will weaken the regime
00:10:45
enough for the people to overtake it and
00:10:48
claim control of their country.
00:10:50
>> It doesn't look like that's the case. I
00:10:52
think they've appointed the son of the
00:10:53
Ayatollah to lead the country now and
00:10:55
they seem to be firing at everybody in
00:10:57
the region. There was some reports that
00:10:59
they might have ballistic missiles that
00:11:00
could reach Europe as well. Yes. And and
00:11:02
this is what we have to stop. I mean the
00:11:05
idea that they are they are carrying out
00:11:06
this aggression simply because they've
00:11:08
been attacked is false. They would have
00:11:11
eventually carried it out. The question
00:11:12
is when and with what means. And if we
00:11:15
had just sort of slept and waited, we
00:11:18
would have ended up with a catastrophe.
00:11:20
This is different than North Korea.
00:11:21
North Korea was allowed to get nuclear
00:11:23
weapons, but they don't have the same
00:11:24
celestial fundamentalist ideology there.
00:11:27
Ultimately, the regime in North Korea is
00:11:30
interested in its own survival and its
00:11:34
power.
00:11:35
>> The regime in Thran has a theocratic
00:11:39
dream. They believe that there's an an
00:11:41
afterlife in which they could be
00:11:42
rewarded for carrying out mass
00:11:45
destruction on what they call the
00:11:48
infidels. They don't respond to
00:11:50
deterrence the same way that Pyongyang
00:11:52
in North Korea would. There's a far
00:11:54
greater risk to them having a nuclear
00:11:57
weapon than than even having that in in
00:11:59
a communist totalitarian state like
00:12:01
North Korea. But for Canada in this
00:12:05
environment, our superpower is again our
00:12:07
resources. And that's why it has been
00:12:09
one of my major obsessions to unblock
00:12:11
our resources, get them to tide water,
00:12:14
accumulate them in a strategic reserve
00:12:17
that would allow us to really flex our
00:12:19
energy muscles in environments like this
00:12:22
and also reduce dependence on regime
00:12:24
like Iran, like Saudi Arabia, like
00:12:26
Venezuela.
00:12:27
>> If Trump had called you and asked for
00:12:28
your support, had you been leading the
00:12:32
government of Canada, would you have
00:12:34
given the support? This is the big
00:12:36
conversation at the moment in the UK
00:12:37
because K Starmmer was reluctant to send
00:12:39
troops originally and it seems to have
00:12:41
irked Trump in an interesting way.
00:12:43
>> So our prime minister did support the
00:12:46
attack and I agreed with Prime Minister
00:12:49
Carney on that point. That is distinct
00:12:51
from contributing Canadian soldiers or
00:12:54
sailors and air crew. I'm not proposing
00:12:56
that we send ground troops to Iran and
00:13:00
we are not in a position right now to
00:13:02
supply a lot of the demands that this
00:13:04
conflict would require. It depends on
00:13:07
what they ask for um before we get an
00:13:09
answer from Canada on what what it is
00:13:11
that we can provide.
00:13:12
>> You're someone that knows a lot about
00:13:13
history. You seem to know a lot about a
00:13:15
lot, frankly. Um and I I don't know a
00:13:20
lot about a lot. So when you think
00:13:22
through how this could go, it doesn't
00:13:25
appear that the Iranians are going to
00:13:28
roll over very easily. The the Iranian
00:13:30
leadership are going to roll over very
00:13:31
easily. Trump doesn't appear to be a man
00:13:34
that likes taking hits to his ego. So it
00:13:36
doesn't appear that he's just going to
00:13:37
pull out and let you know things
00:13:39
unravel. Uh and then the third option
00:13:41
one would say is that they double down
00:13:43
even further and send troops to the
00:13:44
region. What how do you think this plays
00:13:46
out based on everything that you know
00:13:47
about both history about Trump and from
00:13:50
your pattern recognition?
00:13:51
>> Well, it could go a variety of ways.
00:13:53
Remember the first Persian Gulf War,
00:13:55
George Herbert Walker Bush decided that
00:13:58
he had downgraded and penalized Saddam
00:14:01
Hussein enough for the invasion of
00:14:03
Kuwait.
00:14:04
>> He declared victory and he moved on and
00:14:08
ultimately that left a lot of stability
00:14:10
in the region. his son then went and and
00:14:12
and pursued a full uh out-and-out regime
00:14:15
change and that was a much longer
00:14:16
enterprise. Uh the the president will
00:14:20
have to decide which of those two Bushes
00:14:22
he uses as a model. But I think that the
00:14:26
important thing is to know what the
00:14:27
objective is for me. The objective has
00:14:29
to be to make sure that the Iranian
00:14:30
government never gets the capacity to
00:14:32
send long range nuclear missiles to
00:14:36
countries uh or even short and medium
00:14:38
range to Israel for that matter. Beyond
00:14:41
that, I think it's up to the Iranian
00:14:43
people to take advantage of the weakness
00:14:46
of the regime and rise up and reclaim
00:14:48
their country. I I I don't think this
00:14:51
regime has popular support. Uh I know a
00:14:54
lot of Iranians, we're blessed to have a
00:14:55
lot of very secular, pro-western
00:14:58
Persians who live in Canada, are proudly
00:15:00
Canadian, and they will tell you that
00:15:03
there's almost no support for the regime
00:15:05
among the people of of Iran. Mhm.
00:15:07
>> They need to find a way to overturn the
00:15:10
regime. Uh, and that would that would
00:15:12
give a a lot of comfort and peace to the
00:15:14
rest of the world, but it would also
00:15:15
give democracy to a deserving people.
00:15:17
>> What would you do if you were Trump?
00:15:20
>> Oh, that's a good question. Um,
00:15:23
>> and no offense to
00:15:27
>> like I said, I would focus on the core
00:15:28
objective of making sure that there's
00:15:31
not a nuclear armed Iran without getting
00:15:33
involved in a permanent quagmire. So
00:15:36
everything's been bombed now. Fordo has
00:15:37
been bombed. So is this the time to pull
00:15:39
out then?
00:15:40
>> I think it all depends on the
00:15:41
intelligence they have about the nuclear
00:15:43
capacity. That that is the the hinge
00:15:46
point. We cannot allow a nuclearpowered
00:15:49
um Iranian military. That is what they
00:15:52
they need to determine.
00:15:53
>> For me at the moment it looks a little
00:15:54
bit like it's a little bit lose-lose for
00:15:56
Trump in an interesting way. And I think
00:15:59
this is also reflecting the fact that
00:16:00
nobody really has a perfect answer for
00:16:02
what to do next because it's all just
00:16:04
trade-offs. That's right.
00:16:06
>> That's right. I mean, that's what the
00:16:08
the great uh Thomas Soul said. There's
00:16:10
no solutions, just trade-offs in life.
00:16:12
>> And it's hitting the the price of um gas
00:16:14
at the pumps in a big way.
00:16:16
>> Yes.
00:16:17
>> A way that concerns you or
00:16:19
>> Well, it's funny you should ask because
00:16:21
it shouldn't have to concern Canadians.
00:16:24
Our enormous supply of oil should
00:16:27
actually insulate us from it. Normally
00:16:29
what what used to happen in Canada is
00:16:31
when the global price of oil rose, our
00:16:34
dollar would rise with it because people
00:16:36
would be buying more of our oil, which
00:16:38
meant they had to first buy our dollar.
00:16:39
A more powerful Canadian dollar meant
00:16:42
that we had more buying power for
00:16:44
internationally priced commodities like
00:16:46
oil and food. So, we used to be
00:16:48
protected from international oil price
00:16:52
increases in a way that we're not
00:16:54
anymore because our sector is no longer
00:16:56
as strong and as big as it was as a
00:16:58
share of our economy. And so, uh, what I
00:17:01
want to do is unleash oil production in
00:17:04
Canada, clear, uh, the regulatory
00:17:08
bureaucracy, the government gatekeepers,
00:17:10
get rid of industrial carbon taxes, and
00:17:13
have a stronger dollar that makes life
00:17:15
more affordable and much more
00:17:17
geostrategic power in the world.
00:17:19
>> There's a quite significant probability
00:17:21
that you could be Canada's next leader.
00:17:24
And for you to achieve all those things
00:17:25
you've just described, you'll need to
00:17:26
have, you know, productive relationship
00:17:28
with the United States. Trump if all
00:17:30
follows the law won't be able to be
00:17:32
elected. So it'll probably be a
00:17:33
different leader by the time that you
00:17:35
were in power. Although I know that you
00:17:37
know there could be a vote of no
00:17:38
confidence which mean that you could get
00:17:39
into power earlier.
00:17:41
>> Your relationship with Trump good, bad,
00:17:44
indifferent.
00:17:44
>> I've never met him.
00:17:46
>> I've never spoken to him. No, I don't
00:17:48
have. No. Um I made the decision that uh
00:17:51
we have one prime minister at a time and
00:17:53
because we are negotiating a trade deal
00:17:56
or it's more like a review of an
00:17:57
existing deal uh I don't want our side
00:18:00
as Canadians to be divided even though I
00:18:02
obviously disagree with my prime
00:18:04
minister on a whole range of policy
00:18:05
issues. I don't want to uh undermine in
00:18:09
any way the the Canadian side of the
00:18:11
bargaining table. I would only do that
00:18:13
kind of conversation with a teamwork uh
00:18:15
with the current government. But what
00:18:17
I've said is that our approach visa be
00:18:19
Trump should be to focus on what we can
00:18:21
control. So why not focus on what what
00:18:24
we can do at home? Um unlock our
00:18:26
resources, build up a strategic reserve
00:18:29
of of minerals that are important to our
00:18:33
American friends, but also to our other
00:18:35
allies. Clear the way to export more
00:18:38
goods to overseas markets. uh build
00:18:40
alliances with the United Kingdom, New
00:18:43
Zealand, Australia uh to diversify and
00:18:46
become more self-sufficient.
00:18:48
>> You keep using this word unlock.
00:18:50
>> Yes.
00:18:50
>> And clear the way.
00:18:51
>> Yes.
00:18:52
>> What are you referring to when you say
00:18:53
clear the way and unlock?
00:18:55
>> Removing bureau bureaucratic obstacles.
00:18:57
Um the the resources we have are
00:19:00
massively profitable for the private
00:19:03
sector to mine, refine, store, and ship
00:19:08
as long as they can get the permits and
00:19:10
the low enough taxes to do it. So we
00:19:13
need to remove those obstacles so that
00:19:15
it now becomes uh possible for private
00:19:18
investment, not subsidized by
00:19:20
government, no handouts for business,
00:19:23
but private investment to unlock and
00:19:25
unblock those resources. You're just
00:19:27
saying there you don't want to get in
00:19:28
the way of Mark Carney.
00:19:30
>> Well, I I don't want to get in the way
00:19:32
of of negotiations with a foreign
00:19:34
country. I obviously my job is to to be
00:19:38
his opposition in the House of Commons
00:19:40
on domestic issues and even on
00:19:42
international issues, but not to do so
00:19:44
in a way that undermines the national
00:19:45
interest.
00:19:46
>> A lot of countries aren't like that. It
00:19:48
was interesting because you're on Joe
00:19:49
Rogan's show. It's got a global
00:19:50
audience.
00:19:50
>> Yes.
00:19:51
>> So, you know, if you talk about him
00:19:52
there, you're talking about him all over
00:19:54
the world. And you said you wouldn't
00:19:55
criticize the leader of the opposition
00:19:58
unless you were in Canada. But you know
00:20:00
that you know you're reaching everybody
00:20:02
everywhere all the time.
00:20:03
>> That's true.
00:20:04
>> No, that's true. That's true. But uh I I
00:20:06
just think it's it's a good principle to
00:20:08
follow particularly during a negotiation
00:20:11
that's happening across the border in
00:20:13
that country. like you know I think it
00:20:15
would be a little different if we were
00:20:17
in normal times and there was no trade
00:20:18
dispute or if we were in a country with
00:20:20
which we have no particular contention
00:20:22
that for me to say something critical
00:20:24
about the government's policy back home
00:20:26
would not have any repercussions for the
00:20:28
nation but particularly over the next
00:20:30
several months while these talks are are
00:20:32
hopefully going to go on uh I want to
00:20:34
get the best outcome for Canada and I
00:20:36
have to put my country above myself.
00:20:38
>> Why are you better than the current
00:20:41
leader of the Canadian government? Well,
00:20:44
what what what is it you offer that is
00:20:45
better than what he has to offer?
00:20:47
>> My mission is to make Canada the most
00:20:51
affordable
00:20:52
uh freest and richest country in the
00:20:55
world. My upbringing, I grew up in very
00:20:58
humble beginnings. I grew up surrounded
00:21:00
by working-class people. Yeah, these are
00:21:02
my folks. Yeah, that's an old one.
00:21:04
>> Got a photo of you there and your your
00:21:06
parents and your is it your stepbrother?
00:21:08
Your half brother?
00:21:09
>> Half brother. Yes. So, uh it's my dad
00:21:11
and my my mother. or they were school
00:21:13
teachers. Uh my brother is my half
00:21:15
brother because we came from the same
00:21:16
biological mother but a different
00:21:19
biological fathers adopted into the same
00:21:21
family. Kind of a complicated story.
00:21:23
>> Your biological mother adopted you at 16
00:21:25
years old.
00:21:26
>> Put us up for adoption at 16 years old.
00:21:28
She was 16 and then um then about 3
00:21:31
years later she had another little boy
00:21:33
and he Patrick was then uh adopted by
00:21:36
the same parents.
00:21:37
>> And they were two teachers that adopted
00:21:38
you and Patrick.
00:21:39
>> Yes, that's right. Yeah. I still
00:21:40
remember when we went to pick him up. It
00:21:42
was uh so we we went to this um we got a
00:21:44
phone call and he said, "There's a
00:21:46
little boy who happens to be half
00:21:47
brothers with your with with Pierre.
00:21:49
Would you like to to adopt him, too?"
00:21:51
And he said, "Absolutely." So, we went
00:21:53
over to this building and we walk into
00:21:55
this room and there were all these rows
00:21:57
of babies
00:21:59
>> and uh you know, we walked past them and
00:22:01
then we said, they said, "That's him
00:22:03
right there." And that was when I met my
00:22:04
brother. You know, we picked him up.
00:22:06
That's why I thought that's where babies
00:22:07
came from. There was a store. you know,
00:22:09
we go to a store and get your your
00:22:10
groceries. There's a store where you can
00:22:11
go and get a baby. That's what I thought
00:22:13
cuz that was my first experience with
00:22:15
it. And um we brought him home and and
00:22:17
we grew up in working-class
00:22:18
neighborhoods. When I was about 3,
00:22:20
fourish, uh we lost everything. We got
00:22:23
smashed by high interest rates. My
00:22:26
mother had had saved up enough to buy
00:22:28
two little rental properties. We lost
00:22:30
those and our home and had to borrow
00:22:33
from our grandfather to get a down
00:22:35
payment so we'd have a place to live. My
00:22:37
dad was driving this old mobile that was
00:22:39
falling apart and our neighbors were,
00:22:41
you know, workingass folks. They were
00:22:43
just, you know, electricians, uh, oil
00:22:45
workers, police officers. So, that's
00:22:48
those are the people I grew up with. And
00:22:50
I always grew up admiring those those
00:22:52
people, uh, admiring what they were able
00:22:54
to do and believing that they were
00:22:57
generally taken advantage of by
00:22:59
government, never listened to, and
00:23:01
definitely and kept on the outside of
00:23:03
decision-m.
00:23:04
And my mission has been to bring back
00:23:07
what I call the promise of Canada that
00:23:10
uh anyone can achieve anything. It
00:23:12
doesn't matter if you start off as an
00:23:13
adopted kid uh raised by school teachers
00:23:16
uh or you know an immigrant from
00:23:17
Batswana who uh grows up really poor. If
00:23:21
you you work at it, you should be able
00:23:23
to buy a house uh launch a business,
00:23:26
become a you know a famous global
00:23:28
podcaster uh or maybe cure a disease.
00:23:31
And that was what Canada was all about.
00:23:33
And that is what I'm trying to
00:23:34
reinstate.
00:23:36
>> What age do you get to meet your
00:23:37
biological mother for the first time?
00:23:39
>> 21 22. My adopted mother was very
00:23:44
gracious because I said I won't meet my
00:23:47
biological mother without the permission
00:23:50
of my adopted mother. She did all the
00:23:52
work of raising me. all the hardships,
00:23:53
all of my she put up with all of my
00:23:56
rambunctiousness and teenage years and
00:23:58
uh drove me to hockey practice and you
00:24:01
know emptied her bank account to pay for
00:24:03
our food and stuff. So I did not want
00:24:05
her to feel like she was going to be
00:24:07
left behind or forgotten about or
00:24:09
replaced. And I asked her, you know,
00:24:11
would you be okay if I met her? And she
00:24:14
said, "Yes, of course, cuz I won't
00:24:15
always be here and I always want you to
00:24:16
have a mother." And I thought that was
00:24:18
um a really incredible thing to do
00:24:21
because it's so big part such a big part
00:24:24
of um a mother's identity is that they
00:24:27
are the mother of that child. But to
00:24:30
have a love that's so much deeper than
00:24:33
that personal identity or interest is
00:24:36
something I'll always remember. It's one
00:24:37
of the most gracious things I've ever
00:24:38
seen.
00:24:39
>> I can see the emotion in your face as
00:24:40
you say it.
00:24:41
>> Yeah.
00:24:42
>> It's still there.
00:24:43
>> Yeah. I hadn't thought about that in a
00:24:45
while.
00:24:50
What beautiful people.
00:24:51
>> Yes, we're very blessed. And uh
00:24:54
um and it's and it's it's it's people
00:24:56
like these that inspire me that uh keep
00:24:59
me going in in uh in this crazy world of
00:25:02
politics.
00:25:03
>> So you get to meet your biological
00:25:05
mother at 21, 22.
00:25:06
>> Yeah, around that.
00:25:07
>> Yeah.
00:25:08
>> What does one say? What are the
00:25:09
questions one needs to ask if any?
00:25:15
I'm trying to remember. We went on we
00:25:16
went on a bit of a road trip from uh
00:25:18
Ottawa to Montreal and we just got to
00:25:21
know each other. Uh she had a lot of uh
00:25:24
questions about how my life had been and
00:25:27
uh I had a lot of questions about our
00:25:29
our biological family, about her father
00:25:31
who was a really great man. I would go
00:25:33
on to meet a great Irishman
00:25:36
and um the circumstances that led to my
00:25:40
my conception and and birth. And I
00:25:43
really came to understand her decision
00:25:45
to put me up for adoption. And I've
00:25:47
never been resentful for it at all. She
00:25:48
she was 16. She just lost her mother to
00:25:51
a heart attack. She um didn't have a lot
00:25:55
of means. And she just made a selfless
00:25:56
decision that we would have more
00:25:58
opportunity if we were raised by someone
00:25:59
else.
00:26:00
>> Did you ever learn anything about your
00:26:02
biological father?
00:26:03
>> Yes. Yeah. He he works at at a um a
00:26:09
concrete plant in British Columbia. And
00:26:11
so I went and met him. He's a great
00:26:13
father with children that that he
00:26:14
subsequently had and raised and and so
00:26:17
he he's a very good man as well. And my
00:26:19
my adoptive father is a a teacher and uh
00:26:22
he gave me a lot of uh wonderful lessons
00:26:25
and I think is responsible for my way
00:26:27
with words.
00:26:29
>> Marlene and Donald.
00:26:30
>> That's right.
00:26:31
>> So Marlene's your adopted mother.
00:26:33
Donald's your adopted father. They
00:26:34
divorce when you're 12 years old.
00:26:36
>> Yes. It would be around that time. I was
00:26:38
in grade five.
00:26:39
very difficult time for parents to
00:26:41
divorce. Very difficult time. I remember
00:26:43
that that period of life very very
00:26:45
clearly because I remember one day my
00:26:47
parents coming to me and telling me that
00:26:48
they didn't love each other anymore that
00:26:49
they were going to get a divorce. They
00:26:50
didn't.
00:26:51
>> Okay.
00:26:51
>> But I remember bit which you know I
00:26:53
think did enough damage for but it was
00:26:55
around that age and I I remember where I
00:26:57
was stood in the house. I remember what
00:26:59
I was wearing when they said that to me
00:27:01
cuz it's earthshattering.
00:27:03
>> It is actually.
00:27:04
>> I just can't I can't unforget it. It was
00:27:05
it was traumatizing. Well, we were my
00:27:08
dad told me and he wanted to tell me
00:27:10
alone. So, he we we got into uh the car.
00:27:13
He said he wanted to take me for a drive
00:27:15
and we drove to the local corner store
00:27:17
and we parked in the car and he told me
00:27:19
that there. But it is very traumatizing
00:27:21
and um but at the same time like they
00:27:25
were very very good parents. So, I I I
00:27:28
don't judge them for how they ended up
00:27:30
uh apart. Uh we were very blessed. Uh,
00:27:33
you know, they gave me a great start in
00:27:35
life. Even though they weren't together,
00:27:37
they they loved us very much and they
00:27:38
gave us all all they could.
00:27:40
>> And Donald would would eventually come
00:27:42
out as gay.
00:27:42
>> That's right.
00:27:43
>> One would assume that he was dealing
00:27:44
with the conflict of feelings.
00:27:47
>> Yes.
00:27:48
>> For much of the time,
00:27:49
>> he had been raised in a very devotly
00:27:51
French Catholic household and that's why
00:27:52
we have a French name. And before he got
00:27:55
married, he'd even consider going into
00:27:56
the priesthood and he so he was a very
00:27:58
devoutly Catholic person. He genuinely
00:28:00
loved my mother, but obviously he wasn't
00:28:03
programmed uh that way. You know, he has
00:28:05
a wonderful partner and we're friends
00:28:07
with uh very close with him and his
00:28:09
partner Ross right now.
00:28:11
>> Do you see how that's changed you as a
00:28:13
man um as you've grown up, whether it's
00:28:15
your sort of your perspective on what
00:28:17
love and romance is or anything else? I
00:28:20
think that if everything just been, you
00:28:21
know, white picket fences and, you know,
00:28:24
hu, you know, totally predictable and as
00:28:27
then then I wouldn't be the kind of
00:28:29
person I am today. I think it's also,
00:28:32
you know, it's it's like you I would you
00:28:34
have been as successful as you are if
00:28:36
you had had a very easy childhood? I
00:28:38
doubt it. I bet all the the hardships
00:28:40
that you had and the the twists and
00:28:43
turns that took you from Batswana to the
00:28:44
United Kingdom and and then onward
00:28:47
probably gave you some superpower. And
00:28:49
so uh this I think it gave me the chance
00:28:52
to understand that you have you don't
00:28:53
judge people. You you love them for who
00:28:56
they are. My parents also taught me an
00:28:59
important lesson that uh Shakespeare
00:29:01
says to thine own self be true. Um my
00:29:04
mother had when she was a a small baby,
00:29:08
she was in a car accident and her
00:29:10
fingers were burned off and she had
00:29:11
horrible scars um horrible burns on her
00:29:14
hand at the time. And as I got to my
00:29:18
adolescence, I said to my dad, um did it
00:29:21
ever bother you when you started dating
00:29:22
her that she she had this injury?
00:29:26
And he said, "No, because it didn't
00:29:28
bother her. She was totally at peace and
00:29:31
she never hid it." It wasn't long after
00:29:33
we met that I forgot it was even there.
00:29:36
And the message that I took from that is
00:29:39
be yourself. Don't try to hide the
00:29:42
scars. Scars are the trophies of
00:29:44
survival.
00:29:46
So those are some of the the lessons
00:29:48
that my mother and father taught me. And
00:29:49
my dad was the same about who he was. He
00:29:52
just lived his life unapologetically and
00:29:55
openly and he never apologized for who
00:29:57
he was. And that has stayed with me.
00:30:00
When you speak of Marlene, you you speak
00:30:01
up with her with a great fondness and
00:30:03
expression in your face that you know I
00:30:04
sit I've sat here six 700 times. So you
00:30:06
get to see who matters most to people in
00:30:09
their lives just by looking at their
00:30:10
face.
00:30:12
And she's she's clearly on the podium.
00:30:16
>> Yeah. She's a very feisty little lady,
00:30:18
very short and very uh very forceful.
00:30:22
She she taught me a lot about being, you
00:30:24
know, pugnacious and fighting for what
00:30:26
you want and what you need in life. and
00:30:29
um and we argued a lot when I was a kid
00:30:32
and I think that maybe forged some of my
00:30:35
current uh political uh argumentation as
00:30:38
well. My wife is a has a big part of it
00:30:40
as well. She's a very strong feisty
00:30:43
intelligent lady with an incredible
00:30:45
upbringing as well. She's a a refugee
00:30:47
from Venezuela and came with really
00:30:49
nothing. And so she has this sort of
00:30:51
maggyver like skill set to to get
00:30:54
anything done no matter how difficult
00:30:57
the logistics. So I've been very very uh
00:30:59
blessed with strong women around me.
00:31:02
>> At a very young age, it appears that you
00:31:04
took a a liking to politics. I mean you
00:31:08
I mean you mentioned hockey first and
00:31:10
Marlene taking you to hockey. I've got a
00:31:12
found a couple of photos of you playing
00:31:13
hockey which I found to be quite
00:31:14
interesting but um
00:31:15
>> yes
00:31:16
>> but politics when did politics come into
00:31:19
your your psyche?
00:31:20
>> I would have been uh kind of in my mid-
00:31:22
teens. Well, I I got into football, hurt
00:31:25
my back in football, so I couldn't stay
00:31:28
on the team. My mother had always gone
00:31:30
to these sort of local conservative
00:31:32
meetings. Um sometimes just bringing
00:31:34
baked goods or uh attending a volunteer
00:31:37
meeting. And I said, "Well, why don't
00:31:38
you bring me to one of those cuz I'm
00:31:40
bored out of my skull." And she did.
00:31:42
This gives me meaning. This gives me
00:31:44
purpose. I want to go and pursue this.
00:31:46
So, I started getting more and more
00:31:48
involved. I got an internship uh making
00:31:50
almost no money and uh and dressing up
00:31:53
in a used suit and really threw myself
00:31:56
fully into this mission.
00:31:58
>> One of the books that I um I realized
00:32:00
you'd read at that time from some
00:32:01
research is this book Adam Smith the
00:32:03
theory of moral sentiments.
00:32:05
>> Yes. So this is this really this book
00:32:09
has to be accompanied by its more famous
00:32:12
sister book which is the wealth of
00:32:14
nations which that's the book that most
00:32:16
people know Adam Smith for. think of him
00:32:18
as kind of the father of capitalism
00:32:20
because in 1776
00:32:22
he wrote this book which described what
00:32:25
we now call the free market system. And
00:32:28
this was a really revolutionary idea
00:32:30
because up until then we basically had
00:32:32
various forms of feudalism.
00:32:34
>> What's that?
00:32:34
>> Where a small group of lords and knights
00:32:37
and aristocrats control all the land and
00:32:41
the the the great masses do all the
00:32:43
work. And so you called them surfs. They
00:32:46
would uh do all the heavy labor and then
00:32:48
the lords of the manor would would take
00:32:50
all of the benefit. Along came the
00:32:53
system of free enterprise that Adam
00:32:55
Smith describes which is basically it
00:32:58
has a very simple premise voluntary
00:33:00
exchange of work for wages, product for
00:33:03
payment and investment for interest. And
00:33:06
that the economy rather than being
00:33:08
guided by the iron fist of the king or
00:33:11
the state is guided by the invisible
00:33:13
hand of the free market. And this had
00:33:16
been it had been thought that this was
00:33:17
crazy. How could the economy just sort
00:33:19
of run itself? And the answer is through
00:33:21
price signals. If the price of something
00:33:23
goes up, people just automatically start
00:33:25
making more of it. And if you need more
00:33:27
workers to make that thing, well, you
00:33:28
raise the wages and all of a sudden,
00:33:30
what do you know? The workers arrive.
00:33:32
And this system is absolutely ingenious.
00:33:35
Like, it's why when you go into a coffee
00:33:37
shop and you buy your coffee, you say
00:33:39
thank you. They don't say you're
00:33:40
welcome. They say thank you because they
00:33:43
have something worth more to them than
00:33:44
they had before, the money, and you have
00:33:46
something worth more to you than you had
00:33:48
before. And this voluntary exchange puts
00:33:50
everyone on equal scale. Even if you're
00:33:52
a massive corporation, you want to sell
00:33:54
something to a 15-year-old kid, you have
00:33:56
to convince them that's worth more than
00:33:57
the cost. So, everybody has to be better
00:34:00
off in the exchange for it to occur. And
00:34:02
that was how free enterprise formed. And
00:34:05
it has led to a spectacular increase in
00:34:08
the quality of living and the economic
00:34:10
growth 200fold increase in economic
00:34:12
growth in the in the free enterprise era
00:34:14
versus the feudal era. So a lot of
00:34:17
people thought Adam Smith is only
00:34:19
interested in a in a system where people
00:34:21
are out serving themselves their
00:34:24
self-interest. That's what they took
00:34:26
from the statement in the wealth of
00:34:27
nations that it is not from the b
00:34:29
benevolence of the brewer, the baker or
00:34:32
the butcher that we get our meal but
00:34:35
from his own self-interest.
00:34:37
But that was only half the story. The
00:34:39
other half was in this book called the
00:34:41
theory of moral sentiments in which he
00:34:44
explains how self-interest overlaps with
00:34:49
virtue. So what he said is that we have
00:34:53
something called fellow feeling which is
00:34:56
to say we feel for the other person and
00:35:00
we feel good when someone else does
00:35:02
good. It's why we explain that you know
00:35:05
people donate to charity or they leave
00:35:07
the door open for a stranger or they
00:35:09
might help an injured person uh on the
00:35:12
street because they feel bad when they
00:35:14
see someone else their fellow suffering
00:35:16
and they feel good when they see him
00:35:18
succeeding. And that's why it's called
00:35:20
sentiments because you feel these
00:35:21
things. I saw this in my own son. He um
00:35:24
for the first time he got a little toy
00:35:26
and he gave it to his sister. It was the
00:35:28
first gift he'd ever given his life. And
00:35:30
he was so happy. Like he literally ran
00:35:33
in a big circle around our the foyer of
00:35:35
our of our residence and just laughing
00:35:37
and screaming. It just made him so
00:35:39
happy. Happier than she was to even
00:35:41
receive it. And this is the best of
00:35:43
human nature that his interest, his
00:35:45
happiness was served by seeing his his
00:35:48
sister better off. And this is really
00:35:51
laid out in some detail in the theory of
00:35:53
moral sentiments. And it for me it's
00:35:55
like it like brings together all of
00:35:58
human nature in one place. Now he's not
00:36:01
naive. He does accept that there are
00:36:03
bad, you know, dark angels in our
00:36:04
nature, but he gives the only plausible
00:36:07
explanation that I have seen about how
00:36:09
you intersect self-interest with
00:36:13
altruism.
00:36:14
>> And how did that change your perspective
00:36:16
and therefore you know your policies and
00:36:18
your career? I have found that
00:36:23
those who push a socialist ideology have
00:36:26
a gross contradiction
00:36:29
in their view of human nature. They say
00:36:33
that human beings are wretched,
00:36:35
self-interested, greedy when they're in
00:36:38
the private voluntary economy, but
00:36:41
they're angels when they're in the
00:36:42
governmental economy. And therefore they
00:36:44
argue that the government should just
00:36:45
control everything because then we have
00:36:47
all these angels that will decide for
00:36:50
us, decide what we get to where how our
00:36:52
money is spent, what we're supposed to
00:36:53
believe in the modern day what kind of
00:36:56
vehicles we drive, what we should think.
00:36:59
Um but that is a a huge contradiction.
00:37:02
If a if a man if man is not capable of
00:37:04
deciding for himself, surely he's not
00:37:06
capable of deciding for others. And I
00:37:08
think the worst the worst vices in human
00:37:11
nature come out when there is too much
00:37:13
power and concentrated in their hands.
00:37:16
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So
00:37:19
my ideology is that we should disperse
00:37:22
power that it should be a bottom-up
00:37:24
system with as much freedom and agency
00:37:26
as humanly possible that people should
00:37:28
be free to choose for themselves and
00:37:31
that the go the purpose of the
00:37:32
government is to do only those things
00:37:34
people cannot do for themselves. I guess
00:37:36
if there's, you know, socialists
00:37:38
listening now, they might think, well,
00:37:40
we tried this sort of capitalistic
00:37:41
approach to the economy and it's
00:37:44
resulted in us being able to buy less uh
00:37:47
food and vegetables for our money. It's
00:37:49
mean the price has gone up at the pumps.
00:37:51
People are struggling. It seems that
00:37:53
inequality has widened and the the
00:37:55
working class seem to be struggling more
00:37:57
now than ever before. They can't buy
00:37:58
homes anymore like my my parents or my
00:38:01
grandparents could could have. So
00:38:03
clearly we need socialism they would
00:38:05
argue because the current system has not
00:38:07
worked.
00:38:08
>> Well, what we have now is socialism for
00:38:11
the very rich. We have governments that
00:38:13
are actively redistributing wealth from
00:38:15
the working class to the very very
00:38:18
wealthy. And that is why we see record
00:38:22
inequality. Government is actively
00:38:24
intervening in the economy to forcefully
00:38:26
redistribute wealth up the chain.
00:38:30
>> Up the chain.
00:38:30
>> Absolutely. And there are countless
00:38:32
examples of it. When they block home
00:38:34
building with heavy regulations, they
00:38:36
limit the supply of homes. Those who
00:38:37
have mansions therefore are wit richer
00:38:39
because their houses are worth more. But
00:38:42
young people, newcomers, working-class
00:38:43
people can't actually get a home. Uh
00:38:46
that is a one example of state
00:38:48
intervention. Well, we could do maybe do
00:38:50
an illustration here.
00:38:51
>> Okay. So, this is um this is the total
00:38:53
amount of land in Canada.
00:38:55
>> Yes.
00:38:55
>> Where homes could be built. And actually
00:38:57
this is quite reflective I think of the
00:38:59
much of the western world even the UK
00:39:02
>> and this is a penny.
00:39:03
>> Yes.
00:39:03
>> Do you you understand this
00:39:04
demonstration?
00:39:05
>> Yes. I think what you're trying to say
00:39:06
is that this is about how much land we
00:39:08
live on.
00:39:08
>> Yes.
00:39:09
>> Yes.
00:39:09
>> So um Canada is a great example of this
00:39:13
because we have 10 times as much land
00:39:16
per person as the second closest G7
00:39:18
country. And yet we have the fewest
00:39:22
homes per capita to live in. And why is
00:39:25
that? It's because that the vast
00:39:27
majority of the cost that goes into
00:39:28
building a new home is not land, labor,
00:39:33
or lumber. It's government. It's
00:39:36
government taxes, fees, charges, uh,
00:39:39
bureaucracy,
00:39:40
lobbyists, consultants. So if you think
00:39:43
of this home here,
00:39:46
this home here in Canada, when you buy
00:39:50
this house, more of the money for your
00:39:51
purchase would go to bureaucrats in
00:39:53
office buildings than to the carpenters,
00:39:56
electricians, and plumbers who actually
00:39:58
build the home.
00:39:59
>> Why? How?
00:40:00
>> Because the bureaucracy has grown like
00:40:02
um any organism in nature which seeks to
00:40:05
to survive and multiply. They uh give us
00:40:08
the second slowest building permits of
00:40:10
any country in the OECD. They charge
00:40:13
enormous development taxes which started
00:40:16
out just to pay for plumbing and and
00:40:19
roads for the the related housing but
00:40:22
now have grown into just a huge cash cow
00:40:25
for local governments because sales
00:40:26
taxes still apply on most new homes. And
00:40:29
all of that gets consp.
00:40:36
In fact, we uh we are the most expensive
00:40:38
in the G7 even though we should be it
00:40:40
should be dirt cheap to own a home in
00:40:42
Canada because we have the most dirt to
00:40:45
build on. Uh and my goal is to remove
00:40:48
all of that bureaucracy speed have the
00:40:51
fastest permits in the world and and
00:40:53
make it tax-free to build homes so that
00:40:55
everyone can afford one. I was reading
00:40:57
some stat that said, again, I might
00:40:59
butcher this a little bit, but it said
00:41:01
that Canada needs to build between four
00:41:04
roughly 450,000 new homes every single
00:41:06
year until 2035.
00:41:09
>> Yes.
00:41:09
>> Just to restore affordability.
00:41:11
>> That's right. And we're building about
00:41:14
240,000 per year. So, we need to roughly
00:41:18
double our home building to do that. The
00:41:21
good news is we have 100,000 Well, it's
00:41:23
not good news. We have 100,000
00:41:25
unemployed construction workers who'd be
00:41:26
happy to pick up a hammer and start
00:41:29
building. We have hundreds of billions
00:41:31
of dollars of investment that's ready to
00:41:33
do it. We have an abundance of land.
00:41:35
What we need are fast permits and low
00:41:36
taxes so that we can unlock that
00:41:38
building.
00:41:39
>> What is the case for slow permits?
00:41:41
>> There isn't one.
00:41:43
>> There isn't one.
00:41:43
>> Zero. There is no benefit to having slow
00:41:46
permits. They do not protect the
00:41:48
environment. They do not uh protect
00:41:50
public safety. We used to build houses
00:41:54
um a lot faster and they didn't fall
00:41:56
down. After the Second World War,
00:41:58
permits were almost instantaneous. We
00:42:00
had a massive buildup of homes so that
00:42:02
our returning veterans could have a
00:42:03
place to live. In many neighborhoods of
00:42:05
Canada, those homes are still standing.
00:42:07
They have not collapsed. There's no I'm
00:42:10
not saying we get rid of building codes.
00:42:12
They should all have to follow standards
00:42:15
of environmental responsibility and be
00:42:17
fire resistant and and safe. But it
00:42:20
doesn't it shouldn't take seven years to
00:42:21
approve a subdivision to do that. We we
00:42:23
know how the the developers know how to
00:42:26
build according to the rules. They just
00:42:28
need quick permits and freed up land to
00:42:30
do it.
00:42:30
>> You'd think now with AI you'd be able to
00:42:32
approve these permits within minutes.
00:42:34
>> Look, with all the technology, housing
00:42:36
should be so much cheaper than it than
00:42:38
it was before. Uh in fact, everything
00:42:41
should be so much cheaper. But this is
00:42:43
another area where government is re
00:42:45
redistributing wealth from the working
00:42:47
class to the super rich. It's the
00:42:50
monetary inflation where we're creating
00:42:53
cash at a far faster rate than we're
00:42:56
creating the stuff that cash buys. We've
00:42:58
in Canada increased the number of homes
00:43:01
over the last 10 years by 13%. But we've
00:43:04
increased the money supply by 100%. In
00:43:07
other words, there is now eight the the
00:43:10
growth in the money supply is eight
00:43:11
times faster than the growth in the
00:43:13
growth in the housing supply,
00:43:14
>> which means for the average person that
00:43:17
it bids up the price. Now, you might
00:43:19
say, well, if everybody's equally
00:43:20
getting their share of that money, then
00:43:24
who cares? But they're not. There's
00:43:26
something called the Catalon effect,
00:43:28
which is that the first people to touch
00:43:30
the money in a uh monetary expansion are
00:43:33
those who are already wealthy and
00:43:35
already connected to the financial
00:43:37
system. So when government creates cash
00:43:39
to fund its deficits, it doesn't just
00:43:41
dump the the bills out of an airplane
00:43:42
into a suburban neighborhood. It injects
00:43:45
it into the banking system by buying
00:43:47
government bonds at inflated prices. And
00:43:49
those who trade in those bonds are the
00:43:51
first to get the cash. Those connected
00:43:52
to the to the financial system are the
00:43:54
first to borrow it. they get to deploy
00:43:56
it before it loses its value. By the
00:43:58
time it trickles down to the
00:43:59
workingclass people, it's lost its value
00:44:02
and their wages have been destroyed. And
00:44:05
this has been happening on and off
00:44:06
throughout all of human history. But
00:44:09
it's been particularly bad in the last
00:44:10
55 years. And that is why I think the
00:44:13
working class across the Western world
00:44:15
is so angry.
00:44:16
>> Canada have consistently dropped down
00:44:18
the sort of happiness league table.
00:44:20
>> Well, actually from 2015 we've gone from
00:44:23
fifth to 25th. the 18th. We went from
00:44:26
18th to 25th just in the last year.
00:44:28
>> So you were the fifth happiest country
00:44:30
in the world and now you're 25th.
00:44:31
>> That's right. And part of it is food. We
00:44:34
have the worst food price inflation in
00:44:36
the G7 today. It's due to a lot of
00:44:39
hidden taxes that are baked into food
00:44:41
production. Uh we have an industrial
00:44:43
carbon tax that it charges on farm
00:44:45
equipment, fertilizer, and uh food
00:44:48
producers. We have a new fuel tax that's
00:44:51
just come in. single-use plastic is now
00:44:54
banned, which makes it that so that food
00:44:56
goes bad about five days quicker. So, it
00:44:59
sounds kind of very virtuous. We're not
00:45:00
going to use plastic anymore, but it
00:45:02
ultimately means food uh goes bad and
00:45:04
and somebody pays for that. So, uh we we
00:45:08
need I want to get rid of all of those
00:45:09
taxes and fees and unnecessary
00:45:12
regulations that do nothing for our
00:45:14
health and safety so that we can have
00:45:16
more affordable food. But um more
00:45:19
broadly, we have to get rid of the the
00:45:21
monetary inflation that I described. As
00:45:24
I said, we've doubled our money supply
00:45:26
in Canada from 1.4 trillion to 2.8
00:45:30
trillion in 10 years. So, it is not
00:45:32
actually that these things cost more.
00:45:34
It's that the money with which we buy
00:45:36
them is worth less
00:45:38
>> because
00:45:39
>> because we're creating so much of it.
00:45:41
And it's
00:45:41
>> and why why are you doing that?
00:45:43
>> To fund deficits
00:45:44
>> to pay for debts.
00:45:45
>> That's right. And that's why all
00:45:47
government, it's not just Canada, by the
00:45:48
way, it's across the Western world,
00:45:50
they're creating cash to fund deficits.
00:45:52
>> And the deficits come from having a big
00:45:54
government.
00:45:55
>> Yes.
00:45:56
>> Government that's too big.
00:45:57
>> That's right.
00:45:57
>> That's too involved.
00:45:58
>> That's right. And the result is that
00:46:01
we're we're creating cash faster than we
00:46:03
grow food, build homes, or produce
00:46:06
energy. And my mission, Stephen, is to
00:46:09
flip that. I want us to create more of
00:46:12
what kash buys by unblocking food
00:46:15
production, energy production and home
00:46:17
building so that we add those things
00:46:19
faster than we add what um we add the
00:46:23
cash to the system.
00:46:24
>> Why I mean I saw this graph here this
00:46:27
chart which is GDP per capita with
00:46:29
international counterparts. So on there
00:46:31
it has Canada, United States, OECD and
00:46:34
it shows it's quite stark. It shows that
00:46:36
Canada has basically plateaued in terms
00:46:37
of GDP per capita. What does for the
00:46:39
average person what is GDP per capita?
00:46:42
What does that actually mean?
00:46:43
>> It's your income really. It's the it it
00:46:46
ultimately the GDP gross domestic
00:46:49
product is the the value of all the
00:46:51
things that you produce. If you're
00:46:54
producing more per person over time,
00:46:58
people will see their wages rise, their
00:47:00
real wages rise. If you don't produce
00:47:02
more per person, then your wages are
00:47:04
flat. And so that is what we've
00:47:07
effectively had in Canada over the last
00:47:10
10 years.
00:47:11
>> Why?
00:47:14
>> Because we we are not unlocking our
00:47:18
resources. Our biggest industry is oil
00:47:20
and gas and it's locked behind uh very
00:47:23
aggressive anti-development laws and
00:47:26
bureaucracies because we're we're
00:47:28
blocking home building and because we're
00:47:29
overt taxing our population. We're
00:47:31
punishing initiative with high taxes.
00:47:34
The good news is that we can reverse all
00:47:35
of these things. If we we have the most
00:47:38
prodevelopment, and the fastest permits
00:47:40
in the world, if we cut taxes on work,
00:47:42
investment, home building, and energy,
00:47:44
then we can massively increase our
00:47:47
output of the things that we need to
00:47:49
have a good life and the wages that
00:47:51
people earn to buy it.
00:47:53
>> This seems to be a familiar story across
00:47:55
some Western nations.
00:47:56
>> It is.
00:47:57
>> What are those Western nations and what
00:47:58
is the thing that they've all got in
00:48:00
wrong in common?
00:48:02
Well, I think that it's probably true in
00:48:03
the UK and the European Union as well.
00:48:07
Well, let's take Germany. They shut down
00:48:09
their nuclear sector and they tried to
00:48:11
effectively drive oil and gas out of
00:48:13
their country. The end result was
00:48:15
extremely high energy costs. And this
00:48:18
was another intervention that took from
00:48:19
workingclass people and gave to the very
00:48:21
rich. Those who were able to get the
00:48:23
subsidies for windmills and solar panels
00:48:25
got fabulously wealthy, all very
00:48:27
powerful people. But the workers in the
00:48:30
in the plants and the mines of rural
00:48:32
Germany ended up losing their jobs and
00:48:35
paying higher prices for electricity.
00:48:37
All of which, by the way, has been
00:48:39
reversed because now the Germans are
00:48:40
back to burning coal. So it did
00:48:42
absolutely nothing for the environment.
00:48:44
Uh this is another example of government
00:48:46
intervention totally screwing over the
00:48:48
working class, a phenomenon across the
00:48:50
western world. And this is the big lie.
00:48:53
The big lie is that when government gets
00:48:55
big, it gives people their fair share.
00:48:57
What it does in fact is it gives the
00:48:58
money and the resources to those who
00:49:00
have the most political power. Those
00:49:02
people are all rich and it pays for it
00:49:04
by taking from the working class. So my
00:49:06
mission in politics is to reverse that
00:49:08
entire approach. Have a small government
00:49:10
with big people, a meritocracy that
00:49:13
rewards work and a free enterprise
00:49:15
system that requires businesses compete
00:49:18
for workers with higher wages and
00:49:20
consumers with lower prices.
00:49:22
>> I'm looking here at the GDP forecasts
00:49:24
for various countries around the world.
00:49:26
In the United States, uh, GDP forecast
00:49:28
looks like it's, um, it's been pretty,
00:49:30
you know, pretty strong relative to
00:49:32
others. Canada looks like it's going
00:49:33
down. 2025 estimates 1.7%,
00:49:37
26 estimates 1.3. The United Kingdom as
00:49:40
well seems to have been lagging. Um,
00:49:43
both the United States and Canada. And
00:49:45
Germany, as you said, in 2024, their GDP
00:49:47
growth was only 0.2, two, which is
00:49:50
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and
00:49:51
hundreds of percentages lower than the
00:49:53
United States, Canada, or even the UK.
00:49:56
But clearly there is a problem with GDP
00:49:57
growth here
00:49:58
>> um for Canada, for the United Sta, for
00:50:01
the United Kingdom relative to a country
00:50:03
like the United States. It looks like
00:50:04
the United States are doing something
00:50:06
right.
00:50:06
>> If you look at GDP growth is the main
00:50:08
measure.
00:50:09
>> Look, um there are some policies that we
00:50:13
can learn from. Um it's not just the
00:50:15
United States though. Look at uh look at
00:50:18
Switzerland for example. Uh the Swiss
00:50:20
are among the wealthiest in the world.
00:50:22
They have the best money, the lowest
00:50:23
inflation. They have almost no inflation
00:50:25
in Switzerland by the way. They have
00:50:27
very strong money. The the Swiss Frank
00:50:30
is the best currency in the world,
00:50:32
better than the euro or the American
00:50:33
dollar. What do they have? Free
00:50:35
enterprise, small government. the share
00:50:37
of of the economy consumed by government
00:50:39
spending is significantly lower than
00:50:41
anywhere else in the western world um
00:50:44
outside of uh outside of Asia and so
00:50:47
they do very well. How is it that the
00:50:48
Singaporeans have become one of the
00:50:50
wealthiest nations on earth? They have
00:50:52
no resources, literally nothing. They
00:50:55
have to import their water for God's
00:50:57
sakes. They they took an a swampy uh
00:51:00
mosquitoinfested island and three
00:51:03
peoples who were struggling to survive
00:51:06
in their homelands and they came
00:51:07
together and created the wealthiest
00:51:09
country in the world outside of the Gulf
00:51:11
States. Why? They have free enterprise.
00:51:13
They have low taxes. It's easy to start
00:51:15
a business. You're rewarded for your
00:51:17
hard work. This is the kind of thing we
00:51:18
could be doing.
00:51:19
>> So looking at the numbers of Singapore,
00:51:20
Singapore operates in a league of its
00:51:22
own, outperforming both the UK, Canada,
00:51:24
and the USA in terms of growth. um and
00:51:27
per capita wealth as a hub economy. It
00:51:30
is currently riding the wave of the
00:51:31
global AI boom because they've enabled
00:51:33
entrepreneurship and it is more than GD
00:51:36
from a GDP perspective last year more
00:51:39
than double the United States GDP
00:51:40
growth. Um and I mean it's it's left uh
00:51:44
Canada and the United Kingdom and even
00:51:45
Switzerland in its tracks in that
00:51:47
regard. Interesting.
00:51:48
>> It's a spectacular achievement. And I
00:51:50
mean uh Lee Kuanlu who founded the
00:51:52
country and created this miracle uh
00:51:55
should be studied by every leader in the
00:51:57
world. Um because I don't think there's
00:51:59
anyone who's been able to generate such
00:52:00
a a a massive uh increase in the quality
00:52:04
of life and to do it with literally no
00:52:06
resources whatsoever except for
00:52:09
geography that and they managed to
00:52:10
exploit their geography as you said to
00:52:13
be kind of like modern-day Nabotans.
00:52:15
They're a trading hub uh for for all of
00:52:17
Asia. Every sort of economic policy or
00:52:21
philosophy does have a trade-off.
00:52:23
>> I mean, it's one thing you learn as a
00:52:24
podcaster. There's just always
00:52:25
trade-offs. And if you're not clear on
00:52:27
what the trade-offs are, then they might
00:52:28
surprise you,
00:52:29
>> right?
00:52:29
>> I mean, that, you know, you can talk
00:52:31
about socialism or you can talk about
00:52:32
capitalism, whatever. All of them have
00:52:34
trade-offs. What are the trade-offs of
00:52:36
your economic
00:52:38
strategy and philosophy?
00:52:40
>> Well, the the leadership has to have
00:52:42
humility because it has to let go of
00:52:44
power and and and turn it back to the
00:52:46
people. And um that is a very hard thing
00:52:48
for politicians to do. Um I mean uh no
00:52:51
politician wants to have written on
00:52:53
their gravestone. Um he stayed out of
00:52:55
the way, left people alone so that they
00:52:57
could do great things without him.
00:53:00
Although I think we'd be better off if
00:53:02
more of them did. But I should also say
00:53:04
that like there is a role for
00:53:05
government. I'm not suggesting that
00:53:07
there isn't. There there should be a
00:53:08
basic social safety net that provides
00:53:11
the things that people who are less
00:53:13
advantaged would not be able to have for
00:53:15
themselves to make sure that everyone
00:53:16
has health care even if uh they can't
00:53:18
afford to pay for it. That there's basic
00:53:20
schooling and roads and infrastructure.
00:53:23
But what happens is that once you get
00:53:25
beyond providing those basics and
00:53:27
government starts to to metastasize into
00:53:29
well well uh all kinds of other things
00:53:31
that are not its core responsibility
00:53:34
each dollar spent has less and less
00:53:36
return and then it turns into a negative
00:53:38
return where the more they spend the
00:53:40
more damage they do and I think we're
00:53:42
beyond that point on the curve
00:53:44
>> because I'm thinking about how
00:53:45
immigration ties into all of this and to
00:53:47
GDP growth. I think in Canada from the
00:53:49
research I was doing there has been a
00:53:51
decline in birth rates. Yes.
00:53:53
>> So there's significantly less people
00:53:55
getting married. There's significantly
00:53:57
less people being born. So how does one
00:53:59
run their economy when you're not having
00:54:01
new children being born without bringing
00:54:04
in lots of immigrants to to help support
00:54:06
that economy?
00:54:09
>> Well, first of all, I think we have to
00:54:10
ask ourselves why has the birth rate
00:54:12
gone down? And I I would argue that it's
00:54:14
economic re reasons. Uh if you cannot
00:54:16
afford a home, then you have no place to
00:54:20
raise children. Um, you know, we have
00:54:22
this phenomenon of in Canada of
00:54:24
35-year-olds still living in their
00:54:25
parents' basements. And h how do you
00:54:28
even get a date? I mean, how do you
00:54:30
bring a date home? You know, it's it's a
00:54:34
challenge if if you're 35. And these are
00:54:37
great high achieving people who've got
00:54:39
jobs, but they just can't afford a place
00:54:42
to live or they're stuck in a a small
00:54:46
apartment because that's all their
00:54:48
paycheck will buy them in the way of
00:54:50
rent. And so I think for those economic
00:54:53
constraints, we we have a lot of young
00:54:55
people who otherwise would love to have
00:54:57
children in their late 20s, early 30s
00:55:00
who simply have nowhere to raise them.
00:55:02
>> Am I right in thinking that a lot of
00:55:03
these western economies have allowed a
00:55:05
lot of people into their countries to
00:55:07
make up for
00:55:09
the the willingness or desire or the
00:55:11
availability of people to do the sort of
00:55:13
low wage jobs? Is this is what is this
00:55:16
what's happened globally? Because it's
00:55:17
what people tell me in the UK. Yes, I
00:55:19
think I frankly I think that a lot of
00:55:20
multinational corporations have abused
00:55:22
the immigration system in order to drive
00:55:25
down wages. Um in Canada, for example,
00:55:28
the government massively expanded um the
00:55:31
international student and temporary
00:55:32
foreign worker programs and that allowed
00:55:36
corporations to pay artificially low
00:55:38
wages to people who do not have the same
00:55:42
mobility rights and opportunities. and
00:55:45
that drove down wages, displaced people
00:55:47
from their jobs and ultimately ballooned
00:55:50
housing costs. And so my position is
00:55:52
that we need to to cap numbers um and
00:55:55
ensure that the the economy, healthcare
00:55:58
and housing grows faster than the
00:56:00
population at all times.
00:56:01
>> If you cap numbers, does that mean that
00:56:02
these corporations, these entrepreneurs,
00:56:04
these companies don't have enough people
00:56:07
to fill the roles in their companies and
00:56:08
therefore have to move somewhere else?
00:56:09
What what does it mean? No, we have
00:56:11
unemployment. We have people without
00:56:12
jobs. But they just some multinationals
00:56:15
don't want to pay full wages. So they
00:56:17
think, well, I just undercut the wage by
00:56:20
bringing someone in from a very poor
00:56:21
country who's willing to work for a lot
00:56:23
less and who has fewer rights because
00:56:25
they can't leave the job to go to
00:56:26
another employer. So it's uh kind of
00:56:29
like easy street. And so my view is that
00:56:32
when you've got unemployed people and
00:56:34
you're trying to fill your workplace,
00:56:35
pay higher wages. Give uh give people a
00:56:38
better return on their work. You've got
00:56:40
unemployment. Are those people trained
00:56:42
and skilled and willing to do the jobs
00:56:45
that Canada needs them to do?
00:56:47
>> Yes, absolutely. I mean, we have 100,000
00:56:48
unemployed construction workers. They
00:56:50
could be building the homes that we need
00:56:52
built. Uh we have um young people coming
00:56:54
out of um out of high school without a
00:56:57
job. We have a 30-year highs in
00:57:00
unemployment among youth. They should be
00:57:03
getting those jobs. And you know,
00:57:04
Starbucks says, "Well, they don't want
00:57:06
to take them." Well, maybe you're not
00:57:07
paying enough. If you're not paying the
00:57:09
right wage, then you're not going to get
00:57:10
the right worker. But pay an equivalent
00:57:12
wage and you'll attract a worker who
00:57:14
will who will do the job.
00:57:15
>> Again, I'm trying to play devil's
00:57:16
advocate here. So, you know, Starbucks
00:57:18
increase wages. Yes. Which means that
00:57:20
Starbucks then will increase the cost of
00:57:22
a cup of coffee presumably.
00:57:24
>> Well, unless they can find more
00:57:25
efficient ways to run their systems. You
00:57:28
know, more competition in the system
00:57:30
will allow the worker to gain more and
00:57:31
the consumer to pay less. and the
00:57:34
entrepreneur in the middle has to find
00:57:35
ways to to save and operate more
00:57:37
efficiently. That's the magic of the
00:57:39
market is that everybody has a a a
00:57:42
vested interest in driving the most
00:57:44
value for the lowest cost.
00:57:46
>> One of the interesting ways lots of
00:57:47
employers are finding ways to drive
00:57:48
efficiencies is this new technology
00:57:50
called AI,
00:57:51
>> right?
00:57:51
>> And again, maybe somewhat ironically
00:57:53
here, Anthropic, who one of the world's
00:57:55
leading AI companies, released a report
00:57:57
two weeks ago. I'll throw the graph up
00:57:59
on the screen, but it shows where job
00:58:00
disruption will take place based on how
00:58:02
people are currently using their tools.
00:58:04
And one of the things they noticed is
00:58:06
that there's been a
00:58:08
increase by I think roughly 14% in youth
00:58:11
unemployment because entry- levelvel
00:58:12
jobs are the ones often in white collar
00:58:15
industries that are being taken out
00:58:16
first,
00:58:16
>> right?
00:58:17
>> And you hear these things and you go,
00:58:18
oh, you know, that's some stats and
00:58:19
whatever and it's, you know, not
00:58:21
necessarily tanked the economy yet. But
00:58:23
as an employer of hundreds and hundreds
00:58:24
of people all over the world now, I have
00:58:26
started to notice that the case for
00:58:30
hiring certain groups of people is
00:58:33
becoming much more tricky now because of
00:58:36
these tools. And doesn't make me sound
00:58:38
great saying that. It's not that we're
00:58:39
not hiring hundreds of people, but
00:58:40
there's this certain set when I look at
00:58:42
specifically entry level grads. if they
00:58:45
aren't really AI proficient, they are a
00:58:48
lot less appealing in some roles than
00:58:51
people young grads that that are
00:58:52
extremely AI proficient. The problem is
00:58:54
not many of them are. And that just in a
00:58:57
company like mine, if you're AI
00:58:59
proficient, really irrespective of age,
00:59:00
and you know how to build this thing
00:59:01
called AI agents, it's kind of like you
00:59:04
come with 50 team members of your own.
00:59:06
>> Wow.
00:59:07
>> That's what it's like. So, I've got a
00:59:08
kid called Cass here. You know, he's a
00:59:10
young guy in his 20 his 20ies. He's
00:59:13
built a team of agents that now work for
00:59:15
him. So hiring Cass means I get Cass and
00:59:19
his team of agents because he's
00:59:20
proficient in that technology. Most of
00:59:22
the workforce hasn't been trained
00:59:24
because of the education system to know
00:59:25
a thing about this. So it's becoming
00:59:27
increasingly difficult to to hire entry-
00:59:29
level people but actually all the way up
00:59:31
the board unless you have deep expertise
00:59:33
in a domain which would mean that I can
00:59:36
get Cass to make you the agents. So like
00:59:39
on my CFO, you know, for example, you
00:59:41
know, 50 50 years working in finance,
00:59:45
etc. deep expertise. I just need her and
00:59:48
then she can build out a team of AI
00:59:49
agents to work with her. Back in the
00:59:51
day, if you'd got 5 years ago, I would
00:59:53
have needed her and her to have a
00:59:55
massive team of people, right?
00:59:56
>> I say all this to say that there's a
00:59:58
certain group in society, people that
01:00:00
have deep domain expertise and people
01:00:01
that are technical that I think are in
01:00:04
higher demand than ever before. and
01:00:06
everybody else um as AI continues to
01:00:08
replace them through things like
01:00:09
autonomous driving and um robotics is
01:00:11
around the corner um is I I think there
01:00:14
needs to be a real conversation about
01:00:16
what happens to these people.
01:00:17
>> Can I ask you a question?
01:00:19
>> So
01:00:20
throughout history we've had these
01:00:22
scares where new technological
01:00:24
developments
01:00:26
have threatened to replace and in
01:00:28
reality have replaced certain human
01:00:30
labor. So you had like the during the
01:00:32
industrial revolution machines were
01:00:35
replacing muscular power and then you
01:00:36
had the lites who came and tried to
01:00:38
smash those machines to protect their
01:00:39
jobs. In the end they just got different
01:00:41
jobs with higher pay because they could
01:00:43
do more with these machines and they
01:00:45
didn't have to walk behind a you know a
01:00:47
mule's ass pushing a pushing a plow in
01:00:50
the hot sun all day. They had a tractor
01:00:52
that would pull the plow um and so on
01:00:54
and so forth. But and then in the in the
01:00:57
dotcom era, we were told again that
01:00:59
people are going to lose their jobs to
01:01:00
computers.
01:01:02
In fact, they were made more productive
01:01:03
by computers. Do you think this time is
01:01:06
fundamentally different than those prior
01:01:09
technological revolutions?
01:01:10
>> I would say first thing is nobody knows.
01:01:14
The second thing I'd say is yes. Okay.
01:01:16
>> And the reason I'd say yes is just the
01:01:17
speed of disruption. So unlike the in
01:01:20
the industrial revolution where you know
01:01:21
it takes some time for the new
01:01:23
technologies to become adopted because
01:01:24
of the nature of their of what those
01:01:26
technologies were this technology is
01:01:28
built on the internet which has global
01:01:30
distribution. So open claw is a good
01:01:32
example of a technology that is very to
01:01:35
to simplify it for the audience. It can
01:01:37
do anything on my computer.
01:01:40
So if I put a computer here on this
01:01:42
table I can text openclaw on WhatsApp
01:01:44
and tell it to go on this podcast right
01:01:47
now. Look at the part of the
01:01:48
conversation that was most replayed by
01:01:50
the audience. Clip it. Add subtitles to
01:01:52
it. Tweet it or send it to my Slack
01:01:54
channel. I can get it to I'll tell tell
01:01:56
you something I did the other day. I was
01:01:58
in my house in Los Angeles and it was
01:02:00
very very hot cuz there's a heat wave at
01:02:01
the moment. So I said to it, can you can
01:02:03
you go on take a look at my house online
01:02:06
um buy me a umbrella that I can put
01:02:09
because I like to work outside. I
01:02:10
actually voiced it this and what it did
01:02:12
is it went on Google Maps. It looked all
01:02:13
around my house from all around the
01:02:15
outside because it knew where I lived
01:02:16
for some bizarre reason. It knew that I
01:02:18
charcoal umbrella at a certain size
01:02:21
would suit that table out there. It went
01:02:23
on Amazon, found the charcoal umbrella,
01:02:25
it ordered it, arrives at my house,
01:02:27
>> and it transacted like you
01:02:28
>> transacted because it had my my login
01:02:30
details to transact on this particular
01:02:31
website. So, but it's just, you know,
01:02:34
the framing is it can do anything that
01:02:35
you would you would do on a computer. um
01:02:37
a lot of people work on computers and
01:02:40
the speed of adoption that we're seeing
01:02:41
is is staggering. So my my concern is
01:02:43
actually the sort of near-term
01:02:45
displacement before we figure out the
01:02:47
types of jobs that um the types of new
01:02:50
jobs and then with robotics on the way,
01:02:52
you know, you hear someone like Elon
01:02:53
Musk saying that there'll be more
01:02:56
humanoid robots than humans, you know,
01:02:59
and people say, well, you know, he's
01:03:00
saying that because he's a he's got a
01:03:02
vested interest, right? However, what
01:03:04
I'd say is his timelines have sometimes
01:03:06
not been right. But when he said he was
01:03:08
going to make those spaceships land on
01:03:10
chopsticks, the spaceships eventually
01:03:13
>> Oh, he's a brilliant mind. Don't
01:03:14
underestimate him.
01:03:15
>> And my car out there drives itself
01:03:17
without without intervention. So,
01:03:20
>> I don't know. It's a really interesting
01:03:21
time. I can both see why this techn is
01:03:23
going to change the world for the better
01:03:25
and I believe it will. But then I'm just
01:03:27
really concerned about certain economies
01:03:28
and countries that aren't taking it
01:03:30
seriously because they're so distracted
01:03:32
by other things. Like a lot of them race
01:03:34
baiting. A lot of them are like
01:03:35
immigration seems to be the winning
01:03:36
lever. Like just say the brown people
01:03:38
are the problem. But I'm like maybe the
01:03:40
alien is something else. Maybe the alien
01:03:42
is are these agents that are actually
01:03:44
going to take our jobs. I believe the
01:03:46
basic human need is is meaning to have
01:03:50
the a purpose in life. And often the
01:03:53
question we have to ask is how can we
01:03:56
guide
01:03:57
this uh revolution in technology so that
01:04:01
it empowers people to do things that
01:04:04
continue to give them meaning. I think
01:04:05
it was John Adams who said something to
01:04:07
the effect of my father studied
01:04:11
warfare so that I would have the
01:04:13
security to study commerce. I study
01:04:15
commerce so that my children will have
01:04:17
the prosperity to study arts. If these
01:04:21
new systems give us the ability to focus
01:04:25
on the things that we love doing that
01:04:27
give us meaning in our lives and that
01:04:28
could be a different thing for each
01:04:30
person
01:04:31
while at the same time supplying with us
01:04:33
with a lot of our material needs. It
01:04:35
could be very positive. If it simply
01:04:38
strips away our own utility and leaves
01:04:40
lots of people without the ability to
01:04:42
work at all, then it could be very very
01:04:43
dangerous to to our our our lives. So,
01:04:47
uh I think that we have the public
01:04:49
policy objective is to to to ensure that
01:04:51
it becomes an enabler of humanity, not a
01:04:54
replacement for it.
01:04:56
>> So, you could come into power in is it
01:04:57
2029 if there's no uh overthrowing of
01:05:01
the the current leader?
01:05:03
>> 2029 is going to be an interesting time.
01:05:05
uh if these sort of forecasts that we're
01:05:07
getting from some of the world's leading
01:05:08
experts in artificial intelligence and
01:05:10
robotics come true, have you thought
01:05:12
much yet about how you would counteract
01:05:15
that? What you would do to make sure
01:05:17
that there isn't huge job job disruption
01:05:19
because you know a lot of a lot of
01:05:21
people like Sam Alman have suggested
01:05:23
through their actions that they might
01:05:25
support things like universal basic
01:05:27
income. In fact, Sam Alman's Sam Alman
01:05:29
being the founder and um co-founder of
01:05:31
OpenAI, which makes Chat GBT. I think
01:05:34
his other startup is called WorldCoin,
01:05:36
which uses your retina scan to to
01:05:39
validate that you're a real human being
01:05:41
so that you they can distribute money to
01:05:44
people because in a world of AI, we're
01:05:46
going to need to find a way to
01:05:47
distribute wealth. And if you listen to
01:05:49
Elon, he says, "We're going to live in
01:05:50
the age of abundance where working is
01:05:51
going to be optional." He says, "Now, if
01:05:53
you're a surgeon and you're training to
01:05:55
be a surgeon," he says, "Absolutely
01:05:56
don't. Because in a couple of couple of
01:05:58
years time there's going to be no human
01:06:00
that's better than any AI surgeon.
01:06:03
>> Wow. So if these things are true like
01:06:05
surely you should be making plans
01:06:08
and you know when a lot of smart you
01:06:10
know I know they have an incentive
01:06:11
they're raising money and they want they
01:06:13
have a certain narrative which helps
01:06:14
them raise money but if they are right
01:06:18
the future looks very different from the
01:06:20
past.
01:06:21
>> That's true.
01:06:22
>> Do you have a plan?
01:06:24
I I have principles that I would apply
01:06:26
as these technologies present
01:06:28
themselves. And the principle for me is
01:06:31
how do we make sure that the AI
01:06:34
enables and empowers people to make more
01:06:37
decisions for themselves and have more
01:06:39
freedom and a and um to pursue their own
01:06:42
meaning
01:06:44
rather than replacing and rendering them
01:06:47
um giving them a sense of of lost
01:06:50
meaning and purpose. And so, do I think
01:06:54
it's great that every minimum wage
01:06:56
worker might have a personal assistant
01:06:58
and a chauffeur vehicle? I do. Because
01:07:00
that that would make more of their life
01:07:02
uh uh they could spend on the the things
01:07:05
that thrill them and make them happy and
01:07:07
less of their life would be spent on the
01:07:09
drudgery of having to drive in a traffic
01:07:11
jam or uh or, you know, sweep their
01:07:13
floor. Um but uh at the same time we
01:07:17
have to make sure that that people have
01:07:19
the ability to work and contribute and
01:07:22
and give themselves a sense of meaning
01:07:23
in their lives. So the other thing I
01:07:26
would say is that as these technologies
01:07:28
bring down costs, those savings should
01:07:31
be passed on to people. They should not
01:07:33
be inflated away. The government should
01:07:35
not use this as an opportunity to just
01:07:36
print more cash to reflate the cost of
01:07:38
living. We should actually seek as our
01:07:40
goal to lower the cost of living, make
01:07:43
life more affordable, make our dollars
01:07:45
go further, which is which hasn't
01:07:47
happened in in generations. And so if
01:07:50
technology is going to allow us to
01:07:51
produce more for less, then let's make
01:07:53
sure that the workingclass people
01:07:54
actually enjoy that benefit rather than
01:07:58
having it inflated away. It is quite
01:07:59
concerning that you know if wealth does
01:08:01
acrew to these big companies and you
01:08:03
know people like Elon who incredible
01:08:05
entrepreneur
01:08:06
>> is going to become the world's first
01:08:08
trillionaire right
01:08:09
>> I don't think he'll be the last the way
01:08:11
things are going with with artificial
01:08:12
intelligence that and then if there is
01:08:15
job disruption
01:08:17
I do think there's going to potentially
01:08:18
need to be some government intervention
01:08:22
corrective government intervention do
01:08:23
you not I don't know
01:08:25
>> nobody knows exactly what's going to
01:08:26
happen I mean it was you know um Paul
01:08:29
Krugman, the Nobel Prizewinning uh
01:08:32
economist who embarrassingly predicted
01:08:35
that the internet would have no more
01:08:36
impact on our lives than the fax
01:08:38
machine.
01:08:39
>> And and he's a Nobel Prize uh economist,
01:08:41
I think, from Princeton or Yale or
01:08:42
something. So nobody's Nostradamus on
01:08:45
these things, but we have to have
01:08:48
guiding principles and and mine are the
01:08:50
rules around technology should always be
01:08:52
geared towards giving people more
01:08:54
agency, more meaning, and more control
01:08:56
over their lives and not less.
01:08:59
>> It's funny cuz I don't hear it reflected
01:09:01
enough in political discourse. I hear us
01:09:03
focusing on other things. And one of
01:09:05
those things is immigration. across the
01:09:08
western world, the subject of
01:09:09
immigration seems to be a bit of a
01:09:11
winning formula for political leaders.
01:09:13
If I think about the UK, what Trump said
01:09:16
about, you know, being invaded by
01:09:18
rapists and murderers from the the
01:09:20
southern border, do you feel that it's a
01:09:22
it's a sort of a weaponized, divisive
01:09:24
tool for people to get elected,
01:09:26
complaining about the brown people or or
01:09:29
foreigners? I
01:09:30
>> I'll just give you the Canadian
01:09:31
experience. So for roughly 200 years, we
01:09:34
had the most successful immigration
01:09:36
system in the world by far. In fact,
01:09:38
other countries, both Republicans and
01:09:40
Democrats in the United States used to
01:09:42
say, "We need to study the Canadian
01:09:43
system because it has been so
01:09:44
successful." We had a point system that
01:09:46
that measured whether someone would be a
01:09:48
good fit for our labor market, whether
01:09:50
they would would integrate well into our
01:09:51
our system. And overwhelmingly, people
01:09:54
integrated, intermarried, uh, you know,
01:09:57
my wife is a is a refugee from
01:09:59
Venezuela. That is not an uncommon story
01:10:01
in Canada. What we encountered was a
01:10:04
very sudden and inexplicable increase in
01:10:06
the numbers uh in the period from 2021
01:10:09
to 2024
01:10:11
that was strictly out of line with our
01:10:14
our ability to absorb people into
01:10:17
housing, healthcare, and jobs. And this
01:10:19
upset the the social piece on
01:10:21
immigration that we had had for two
01:10:23
centuries leading up to it. And um now
01:10:27
everyone across the political spectrum
01:10:30
agrees that it went too far too fast.
01:10:33
And the approach that we're taking is
01:10:36
that uh that we have to make it a lawful
01:10:38
system. It has to follow the rules. You
01:10:41
people have to come in legally in
01:10:43
numbers that we can absorb and
01:10:45
ultimately integrate into jobs, society,
01:10:49
and uh our way of life. population
01:10:51
cannot grow faster than the housing
01:10:53
stock or you'll run out of places to
01:10:55
live. It can't grow faster than the
01:10:57
number of jobs or you'll run out of
01:10:59
paychecks for people. And so we need a a
01:11:02
controlled orderly system that's both
01:11:05
compassionate and common sense.
01:11:06
>> It's such a divisive subject. You've
01:11:08
seen what's happened here in the United
01:11:09
States with ICE,
01:11:10
>> right? Yeah. It it's a it's a different
01:11:13
situation in the US. Um we the
01:11:17
immigration problem in the US goes back
01:11:19
many many years. uh many many years of
01:11:21
chaos at their the southern border. We
01:11:23
didn't have that in Canada. Like that
01:11:25
was unheard of. We we had roughly 1% of
01:11:29
population immigrating to Canada for 200
01:11:33
years. It was uncontroversial in Canada
01:11:36
up until this very strange, inexplicable
01:11:40
spike that really only helped very
01:11:43
wealthy landlords and employers that
01:11:47
wanted to drive wages down and rents up.
01:11:49
they were the only beneficiaries of the
01:11:52
extreme increase in numbers.
01:11:54
>> If you don't get the replacement rate
01:11:56
back up to a level where you're having
01:11:58
enough kids in Canada,
01:11:59
>> does it track that eventually you would
01:12:01
have to rely on more immigration
01:12:04
to solve for the sort of GDP issues?
01:12:07
>> Look, economic immigration of
01:12:09
high-skilled um people to our country is
01:12:12
is has always been successful and uh
01:12:16
nobody resents that. Uh, one of the
01:12:19
things that we have to do though is when
01:12:20
people get to Canada, they have to be
01:12:22
able to fulfill their potential. In
01:12:23
Canada today, we have these gatekeepers
01:12:26
that block immigrant professionals from
01:12:28
even working in their field. So, for
01:12:30
example, we have 20,000 immigrant
01:12:33
doctors and 32,000 immigrant nurses who
01:12:35
can't work in medicine because they
01:12:37
can't get a license to practice. There's
01:12:39
this incredibly bureaucratic system they
01:12:41
have to go through that takes eight or
01:12:43
nine years to prove that they actually
01:12:44
have the qualifications.
01:12:46
I have it's so crazy that when I went in
01:12:48
for my eye surgery, there's a technician
01:12:50
there who literally flies to the UAE to
01:12:54
do eye surgeries 10 days a month and
01:12:57
then comes back to his family in Ottawa
01:12:59
where we only let him work as as a
01:13:01
technician. And so UAE is a more
01:13:05
technologically advanced country than
01:13:06
Canada. And eyeballs are the same in the
01:13:09
UAE as they are in Canada. immigrants in
01:13:12
Canada have historically been more
01:13:14
educated than our Canadian-born
01:13:16
population just in terms of their
01:13:18
credentials, but have not been able to
01:13:20
fulfill their work because our licensing
01:13:23
system shuts them out. So, I want to fix
01:13:25
that with a merit-based test that gets
01:13:27
them into the high-paying jobs that will
01:13:29
actually strengthen our economy.
01:13:32
Much of the reason most people haven't
01:13:34
posted content or built their personal
01:13:35
brand is because it's hard and it's
01:13:38
timeconuming and we're all very very
01:13:39
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01:13:41
something before there's so many factors
01:13:44
in your psychology that stop you wanting
01:13:46
to post what people will think of you am
01:13:48
I doing this right is the thing I'm
01:13:50
saying absolutely stupid all of these
01:13:53
result in paralysis which means you
01:13:54
don't post and your feed goes bare I'm
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be in touch. What is the biggest threat
01:16:26
do you think to the western world and
01:16:28
the western way of living? Cuz people
01:16:29
often, you know, they point at Iran,
01:16:30
they say China, they say Russia.
01:16:32
>> I think it depends on what China decides
01:16:34
to do. I China is a a spectacular and
01:16:38
brilliant civilization with so much to
01:16:41
contribute to to world harmony. if
01:16:44
that's their choice. If the if the
01:16:46
government decides that it's going to to
01:16:49
direct the immense um successes of that
01:16:52
country towards um trading and working
01:16:55
with other countries, then there's no
01:16:57
nothing to worry about. But if it is a
01:16:59
very aggressive Bellose approach using
01:17:02
technology for espionage uh interference
01:17:06
in foreign countries as they have done
01:17:07
in Canada uh invading Taiwan then China
01:17:11
and Beijing in particular the regime
01:17:14
could become the biggest risk and threat
01:17:16
to our country and our world.
01:17:18
>> What does history say about this kind of
01:17:20
moment in time where there's seemingly
01:17:22
two world powers? Mhm. Well, there is an
01:17:24
incredible book called Thusidities Trap
01:17:27
uh which a professor named Allison um
01:17:30
said that throughout history he took I
01:17:33
think 20 occasions where the where an
01:17:38
incumbent superpower was caught up on by
01:17:42
a challenging superpower and in I think
01:17:45
the majority of cases it did end up in
01:17:47
war and now he said it's not necessary
01:17:50
though and it doesn't have to happen. it
01:17:52
can be avoided and uh he lays out a plan
01:17:55
in his book for it to be avoided. I
01:17:57
think it can be avoided as well if uh
01:18:00
Beijing can be made to understand that
01:18:02
it is in in the interest of China to be
01:18:04
part of the community of nations to work
01:18:06
collaboratively to trade freely to uh to
01:18:09
be a partner rather than an enemy and I
01:18:12
hope they make the right decision. Is it
01:18:14
fair to say that the United States is
01:18:16
really at war with China now already,
01:18:18
but just through proxy wars and other
01:18:20
types of sort of economic wars? And
01:18:22
because now that they both have nuclear
01:18:23
weapons, you can't really have a direct
01:18:27
conflict, can you?
01:18:28
>> Well, let let's put it this way. Um,
01:18:33
Venezuela,
01:18:35
Iran, Cuba, these are all countries that
01:18:38
were in the realm of influence of
01:18:40
Beijing.
01:18:41
and um they're the countries where the
01:18:45
United States is pursuing uh change. So
01:18:48
there there is the the war that we watch
01:18:51
on the evening news and the the real
01:18:54
interest behind them that that is
01:18:56
driving it.
01:18:57
>> Canada doesn't have nuclear weapons,
01:18:58
does it?
01:18:58
>> No, we do not.
01:18:59
>> Why?
01:19:00
>> We made a decision, I think it was about
01:19:02
I I want to say about 40 or 50 years ago
01:19:05
not to pursue nuclear arm. We didn't
01:19:07
think we had any need need for it. lots
01:19:09
of nuclear power, lots of uranium, but
01:19:11
we don't use it for for weaponry.
01:19:13
>> Do you think Canada should have nuclear
01:19:15
weapons?
01:19:16
>> I don't see a need for that. Um I don't
01:19:19
know what we would get from it. We don't
01:19:21
uh we don't have any desire to to
01:19:24
threaten anyone with nuclear weapons.
01:19:25
So, um uh I don't I don't see a purpose
01:19:29
for that right now.
01:19:32
>> What you think?
01:19:34
>> Sounds quite Canadian.
01:19:36
>> That's true. But listen, we are a
01:19:39
warrior nation. Uh make no mistake about
01:19:41
it. We were in the World Wars two years
01:19:42
before the Americans. Uh and we we are
01:19:47
we're kind of like a a golden retriever.
01:19:49
Uh we're friendly. We're likable. Uh we
01:19:52
like to get along, but if provoked, we
01:19:54
will fight back.
01:19:55
>> Canada is building up its military.
01:19:57
>> Absolutely.
01:19:58
>> Why? because there's a consensus that we
01:20:01
have not done enough to to protect our
01:20:03
territory from the incursions of hostile
01:20:07
powers and uh we often say in Canada if
01:20:10
you don't use it you lose it. Uh there's
01:20:12
large territories of our country that
01:20:14
are very hard to live in. We have an
01:20:16
incredible Inuit population but
01:20:19
obviously you know you can't heavily
01:20:21
populate the Arctic archipelago with
01:20:24
industry and stuff. So, how do you
01:20:26
assert sovereignty over those treasured
01:20:29
uh territories? Well, you have to have a
01:20:31
military presence there.
01:20:32
>> What's changed
01:20:34
>> for Canada? It's it's that we want to
01:20:37
maintain and ensure that we can make our
01:20:39
own decisions without relying on the
01:20:41
Americans
01:20:42
>> because the Americans have expressed
01:20:44
that they are maybe not going to be as
01:20:46
collaborative and friendly
01:20:47
>> and we want to be able to decide for
01:20:48
ourselves. We want to be masters in our
01:20:50
own home. uh in Quebec they say mashu
01:20:53
and uh so if we want to control our own
01:20:56
destiny and territory we have to pro we
01:20:57
have to be able to protect ourselves. It
01:20:59
has been
01:21:01
very good for Canada to be next door to
01:21:03
the biggest military power the world has
01:21:05
ever seen and have friend friendly
01:21:07
relations that go back to um the early
01:21:10
1800s before we were even a country. We
01:21:13
had largely friendly relations with this
01:21:16
enormous power. But what has become
01:21:18
clear is that we cannot simply rely on
01:21:21
the Americans to protect us. We have to
01:21:23
be able to protect ourselves. And that
01:21:25
requires a massive military buildup for
01:21:27
a country of our size, the second
01:21:29
biggest country anywhere in the world.
01:21:30
We have the longest oceanic coastline,
01:21:32
even longer than Russia. So that takes
01:21:35
money and it takes a a buildup like
01:21:38
we've never seen. And that's what we're
01:21:40
we as Canadians agree has to happen.
01:21:42
Now,
01:21:43
>> this is in part because of Trump.
01:21:45
>> In part, yes. because Trump threw the
01:21:47
election and then thereafter said that
01:21:48
he was going to make Canada an American
01:21:50
state
01:21:52
>> which is never going to happen.
01:21:54
>> But that you know with the the leader of
01:21:57
the most powerful military on earth says
01:22:00
even jokingly that they are about to
01:22:02
take your country you can laugh but at
01:22:06
the same time one if I was leading
01:22:09
Canada I'd go wait is this possible? Are
01:22:11
we ready to defend ourselves? we uh as
01:22:14
Canadians react very badly to that and
01:22:16
uh we're we're we're not going to uh
01:22:19
ever be the 51st state or or any part of
01:22:22
the United States of America. The
01:22:24
American people are our friends. They've
01:22:25
been our top trading partner, our
01:22:27
closest ally. As uh President Kennedy
01:22:30
said, um history has made us friends,
01:22:33
economics has made us partners. Uh
01:22:36
geography has made us neighbors and
01:22:38
necessity has made us allies. those whom
01:22:41
nature have thus joined together. Let no
01:22:43
man put us under. But he understood that
01:22:46
that Canada was a separate country that
01:22:48
had its own unique interests. And I
01:22:51
think the American people understand
01:22:53
that as well. I I think the American
01:22:55
people are very fond of Canada as a
01:22:57
neighbor and friend. Um but they
01:22:59
understand we will always be a sovereign
01:23:00
country.
01:23:01
>> You would have been negotiating with
01:23:03
Trump right now if um the election, the
01:23:05
recent election in Canada had gone your
01:23:07
way. This is a pretty uh pretty stark
01:23:11
graph that I've just lid you. It shows
01:23:13
that you were leading in the polls
01:23:15
seemingly up until the very very last
01:23:17
moment in the elections.
01:23:19
>> Is that accurate that poll?
01:23:20
>> Yeah, I think that's probably a weighted
01:23:22
average, but yeah, I think more or less.
01:23:24
>> What happened?
01:23:25
>> Well, if you look what happened, we our
01:23:26
support didn't drop that much. Uh the
01:23:28
other parties collapsed in behind the
01:23:30
Liberal party and uh it was largely due
01:23:34
to the uh the Canada US issue that you
01:23:37
raised
01:23:38
>> really. So, but at the same time, we got
01:23:40
the biggest vote count we had ever
01:23:42
received and the highest share of vote
01:23:45
that we've received since 1988. So, we
01:23:48
did perform very well. Our opponents
01:23:50
performed even better. And now we have
01:23:53
to build on the solid base that we've
01:23:55
accumulated in order to win the next
01:23:57
election.
01:23:58
>> Just as the election comes into the home
01:24:00
stretch, your polling basically stays
01:24:03
the same.
01:24:03
>> Um, slight little bit of a drop, but
01:24:06
roughly stays the same. What caused the
01:24:09
drop in that sort of home stretch there?
01:24:11
Do you think
01:24:12
>> what one of the challenges I had was I
01:24:14
wanted to focus on the things that were
01:24:15
going on in people's lives, the doubling
01:24:19
of housing costs, the rising crime rate,
01:24:21
the inflation crisis, and my solutions
01:24:24
to all of those problems. But a lot of
01:24:26
that was swept off of the conversation
01:24:29
because everyone was focused suddenly on
01:24:32
the the tariffs and the president the
01:24:35
president saying that he was going to
01:24:36
take Canada as a state but also him
01:24:38
saying that he was going to apply
01:24:39
tariffs.
01:24:40
>> That's right. And those tariffs are
01:24:42
still in place.
01:24:44
>> Why did that impact you and help Mark
01:24:46
Carney?
01:24:47
>> That's a good question. I think I think
01:24:49
it allowed the conversation to move away
01:24:52
from the domestic record of the
01:24:54
government and on to two external
01:24:57
factors and that always helps the
01:24:59
incumbent and hurts the challenger.
01:25:02
>> How was this emotionally?
01:25:04
>> Oh, it was a roller coaster and it was
01:25:06
like so things were changing so fast and
01:25:08
moving so quickly in the moment. It's
01:25:11
like you don't really have time to feel
01:25:13
anything. you're just doing so much so
01:25:15
quickly
01:25:16
>> that um your emotions
01:25:20
they're put on delay until after it's
01:25:22
all over.
01:25:22
>> So after it's all over, I've got this
01:25:24
wonderful photo of that.
01:25:26
>> Yes.
01:25:26
>> You and your family. You said the
01:25:28
emotions came after cuz you were going
01:25:30
going going.
01:25:31
>> Yes. So my leadership started in 2022 as
01:25:35
we were coming out of co and there were
01:25:37
so many people who placed so much hope
01:25:40
in me who had suffered so much. They
01:25:42
would tell me they felt like they lost
01:25:44
control of their lives and that they
01:25:46
vested hope in me. So I'd get young
01:25:48
people would say, "You have to win
01:25:50
because I want to start a family and I
01:25:53
can't start a family in this economy."
01:25:56
Or mothers would say, "We just can't
01:25:58
afford food anymore." Or police officers
01:26:01
say, "I've arrested the same guy four
01:26:04
times this week and he keeps getting
01:26:05
released." You have to win to fix these
01:26:08
problems. It's not about you, Mr. Polyv.
01:26:10
It's about the stuff that's happening in
01:26:12
our lives and and you have to fix it.
01:26:15
You know, uh I had a lady come to one of
01:26:17
my rallies cuz when you vote in a to
01:26:19
choose a leader of a party, you have to
01:26:22
pay $15 to join the party. And she came
01:26:25
up and told me about her life story. And
01:26:27
then she went up to the membership desk
01:26:29
and said, "Can I borrow $8?" And they
01:26:33
said, "What do you need it for?" She
01:26:34
said, "Well, I only have $7." They said,
01:26:36
"Oh, well, there's a bank machine
01:26:38
downstairs. you can go get some more
01:26:39
cash. And she says, I don't have a bank
01:26:41
card. And they said, well, is there
01:26:44
perhaps could you go to your car and get
01:26:45
some money? She said, well, uh, I don't
01:26:47
have any money in my car. What about
01:26:48
your home? Um, because we're not allowed
01:26:51
to buy them under the rules for other
01:26:53
people. And she said, I don't have a
01:26:54
home. I live in my car, and the $7 is
01:26:57
all the money I own, and I'm spending it
01:26:59
on a membership so that I can vote for
01:27:01
Mr. Polyia because he is my only hope.
01:27:03
This is the only chance I have. So, I
01:27:07
wanted to deliver for these people and
01:27:10
when we didn't win, uh, I felt I felt
01:27:13
terrible that I hadn't delivered for
01:27:14
them.
01:27:15
>> What does that look like? The
01:27:17
disappointment of not delivering for
01:27:18
people the night of election, the day
01:27:20
after, if I'm watching you as a fly on
01:27:23
the wall, what do I see?
01:27:24
>> You know, I didn't spend a lot of time
01:27:26
on that. I just got back at it because
01:27:28
at the end of the day, you have to focus
01:27:30
on what you can control. And my my
01:27:32
approach in life is to zero in on what
01:27:35
is in your control. That is the greatest
01:27:38
thing you can do for your mental health
01:27:41
and for your output as a person. I
01:27:43
believe in a stoic approach. So I didn't
01:27:46
spend a lot of time sort of rolling
01:27:48
around on the ground um in melancholy.
01:27:52
>> Do you think that if Trump hadn't have
01:27:53
said the thing about taking Canada and
01:27:55
he hadn't have done the tariffs, you
01:27:57
would be leading Canada right now?
01:27:59
>> We'll never know. I mean uh these are
01:28:01
the kinds of uh things you speculate
01:28:03
about but at the end of the day what
01:28:04
what good does it does it uh do to
01:28:06
speculate and I also don't like to make
01:28:08
excuses. I like to say look I'm uh if if
01:28:11
this person hadn't done X then I then I
01:28:13
would be in charge. I have to own my
01:28:15
result and that's what I do.
01:28:17
>> As someone that doesn't know a ton about
01:28:18
this stuff I'm asking kind of for me I
01:28:21
find it interesting to see how
01:28:22
consequential
01:28:23
>> these what do they call them? not um
01:28:26
butterfly effect or just how the
01:28:29
unexpected dominoes can fall and change
01:28:30
the course of history.
01:28:32
>> So if Trump hadn't have said those
01:28:33
things, if we were to speculate, do you
01:28:37
think it would have changed the outcome
01:28:38
of the election?
01:28:39
>> I don't know because we we don't know
01:28:40
what would have happened in absent of
01:28:42
that.
01:28:42
>> If you had to bet your house,
01:28:44
>> I don't have to bet my house. So outcome
01:28:47
either way. I I don't I don't want to
01:28:48
blame someone else for the outcome of
01:28:50
the election because at the end of the
01:28:51
day, the people voted and they made
01:28:53
their decision. I have to be at peace
01:28:54
with it. So, I can't spend my time
01:28:57
thinking on whatifs because if that
01:28:59
whatif hadn't happened, then there might
01:29:01
have been another whatif. So, I have to
01:29:03
focus on what I can control.
01:29:05
>> Dealing with those moments. You
01:29:06
mentioned stoicism. I found this book u
01:29:09
meditations by Marco Surelius, which I
01:29:11
think was quite formative for how you
01:29:13
see things in some respects and
01:29:14
generally stoicism.
01:29:16
>> Yes. Um it's it's a great book. The
01:29:18
amazing thing about it is it's so
01:29:19
readable. Like he he talks about um this
01:29:23
is just a random page but it's a very
01:29:25
interesting uh excerpt. When you wake up
01:29:27
in the morning tell yourself the people
01:29:28
I deal with today will be meddling,
01:29:30
ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous
01:29:32
and sirly. They are like this because
01:29:34
they can't tell good from ego evil. But
01:29:37
if you go in and read it, what it
01:29:39
basically says is expect these things
01:29:41
and if you do but don't be controlled by
01:29:45
them. These are control. These are
01:29:47
factors outside of your control. Put all
01:29:50
of your emphasis on the things that are
01:29:52
within your control and it will bring a
01:29:54
tremendous amount of peace because when
01:29:57
you're focused on what you can control,
01:29:58
you're the boss of your life. And that's
01:30:01
what that's what stoicism has done for
01:30:02
me.
01:30:03
>> I heard you say you're not the you're
01:30:05
not acted upon.
01:30:06
>> That's right. When you're when you focus
01:30:09
on what you can control, you are the
01:30:11
actor rather than the acted upon. If you
01:30:13
say if you spend a lot of your time
01:30:15
thinking about the things you can cannot
01:30:16
control then you become a helpless
01:30:18
victim. Whereas if you if you focus on
01:30:21
what you can then you you become uh like
01:30:23
the driver of the car you decide where
01:30:25
it goes. And um you know as my favorite
01:30:28
poem says uh Invictus that um Nel Nelson
01:30:32
Mandela used to read himself when he was
01:30:34
in prison for all those years in South
01:30:36
Africa. He he would he would recite to
01:30:38
himself the the poem Invictus to remind
01:30:41
him that he he could focus on what he
01:30:44
was in control of which was his own
01:30:46
soul. I am the master of my fate. I am
01:30:50
the captain of my soul is how it ends.
01:30:53
And that that gives you a lot of peace.
01:30:56
One of the things you often find in
01:30:57
stoicism and other sort of uh teachings
01:30:59
of that time is this idea of being
01:31:01
flexibly minded in terms of being able
01:31:04
to learn and being growth minded and
01:31:05
being able to evolve. Mhm.
01:31:06
>> I was wondering as you went on that
01:31:08
campaign trail and generally over the
01:31:09
last 10 years of your career, it's it's
01:31:11
clear to me that your your core
01:31:13
principles have been quite consistent.
01:31:15
>> I I uh have this um
01:31:18
this document you wrote when you were I
01:31:20
think 20 years old, which was part of a
01:31:22
contest where you won $10,000.
01:31:26
>> That's right.
01:31:26
>> For explaining what you would do if you
01:31:28
were prime minister, um if you were
01:31:30
leading Canada.
01:31:31
>> You even dug up the check.
01:31:32
>> I found the check. It wasn't cashed. No,
01:31:34
it's a it's a fake check. We'll go have
01:31:36
lunch.
01:31:36
>> So, you won $10,000 for submitting this.
01:31:40
>> Yes.
01:31:40
>> When you were 20 years old, explaining
01:31:42
what you would do if you ever became the
01:31:44
prime minister.
01:31:45
>> Yes.
01:31:46
>> And I would like you to actually just
01:31:48
read the opening three paragraphs
01:31:50
because it it does um it is quite
01:31:52
interesting to see how you've evolved if
01:31:53
at all. Could you just read those first
01:31:55
three paragraphs and give me any other
01:31:56
of the context which I might have
01:31:58
excluded?
01:31:59
>> Sure. Although we Canadians seldom
01:32:01
recognize it, the most important
01:32:02
gardening guardian of our living
01:32:05
standards is freedom. Freedom to earn a
01:32:07
living and share the fruits of our labor
01:32:09
with loved ones. The freedom to build
01:32:11
personal prosperity through risk-taking
01:32:13
and strong work ethic. The freedom of
01:32:15
thought and speech. The freedom to make
01:32:17
personal choices and the collective
01:32:19
freedom of citizens to govern their own
01:32:21
affairs democratically. Government's job
01:32:24
is to constantly find ways to remove
01:32:26
itself from obstructing such freedoms.
01:32:28
Human beings are graced with the gifts
01:32:30
of creativity, wisdom, and ingenuity.
01:32:33
The the best way for a society to go
01:32:36
about improving its living standards is
01:32:37
to allow citizens to apply these
01:32:39
qualities to the challenges of everyday
01:32:42
life. Asking a prime minister to
01:32:43
single-handedly improve the living
01:32:45
standards of 30 million of the world's
01:32:47
brightest is as about as realistic as
01:32:50
asking him to take to an Olympic
01:32:53
sprinting track to help a lineup of
01:32:55
worldclass athletes reach the finish
01:32:57
line. The more the government becomes
01:32:59
involved in the race, the greater the
01:33:01
number of hurdles competitors will
01:33:03
encounter. Therefore, as prime minister,
01:33:05
what I would do to improve living
01:33:07
standards is not as nearly as important
01:33:09
as what I would not do. As prime
01:33:11
minister, I would relinquish to citizens
01:33:13
as much of my social, political, and
01:33:15
economic control as possible, leaving
01:33:16
people to cultivate their own personal
01:33:18
prosperity and to govern their own
01:33:20
affairs as directly as possible.
01:33:23
>> In the last decade, since you've been
01:33:25
out on the road, more speaking to
01:33:27
people, campaigning,
01:33:29
where have your views evolved?
01:33:34
I would say my temperament has matured.
01:33:37
10 years ago, I did not have a wife and
01:33:39
kids. As a father, you end up having to
01:33:42
grow in a tremendous amount of patience
01:33:44
because kids don't do what they're told
01:33:46
or they have needs that are that must
01:33:48
supersede your own. You're constantly
01:33:50
making compromises
01:33:53
uh with a spouse in order to juggle all
01:33:56
of the difficulties of family life. And
01:33:58
that necessarily spills over into your
01:34:01
political approach. I think
01:34:03
temperamentally I've changed. I'm much
01:34:06
more careful and thoughtful than I was
01:34:11
say in my late 20s and and early 30s.
01:34:15
>> The people that have um you know
01:34:16
opposition parties have often referred
01:34:18
to you as Trump light.
01:34:20
>> And what do they base that on?
01:34:22
>> I guess because you're both
01:34:23
conservatives, I guess that would be
01:34:25
much of the the argument. And you both
01:34:27
you both have spoken out against this
01:34:29
term wokeism and DEI.
01:34:32
>> Yeah. Look, I I on the on DEI and I
01:34:35
don't think that is something particular
01:34:37
to President Trump. I mean, there's a
01:34:39
lot of people around the world who for
01:34:42
their own reasons and based on their own
01:34:45
experiences
01:34:47
have criticized that particular
01:34:48
ideology. What I think has changed is
01:34:51
that liberals used to believe in liberty
01:34:54
and conservatives believed in conserving
01:34:56
it. You know, they used to say liberals
01:34:58
were the gas pedal, conservatives were
01:35:00
the brake, but we were both heading in
01:35:02
generally the same direction. But what I
01:35:06
think happened with wokeism is that it
01:35:09
it it is a deeply illiberal ideology.
01:35:13
It is liberalism, traditional liberalism
01:35:15
was was a color-blind ideology. It was
01:35:18
based on total equality
01:35:21
regardless of gender, sexuality, race,
01:35:24
or anything else.
01:35:26
Wokeism is exactly the opposite of that.
01:35:29
It's it like accentuates all of those
01:35:31
differences and disagreements. It groups
01:35:33
people based on what should be
01:35:35
irrelevant characteristics like race and
01:35:37
gender. And then having divided people
01:35:40
into groups, it seeks to expand state
01:35:41
control over their lives. What I believe
01:35:44
in is uh is treating people as
01:35:47
individuals and letting them live their
01:35:48
own lives, judging them exclusively on
01:35:51
their own merits. And I think that was
01:35:54
the consensus view of both liberals and
01:35:56
conservatives up until this toxic
01:36:00
ideology came along and divided people.
01:36:03
>> One of the things I you know I'm a black
01:36:04
man.
01:36:05
>> Mhm.
01:36:06
>> I was I moved from Botswana when I was a
01:36:08
baby and came to the UK and thank God uh
01:36:11
there was sort of social systems in
01:36:12
place because I don't think that I would
01:36:14
have had the outcomes I'd had. One of
01:36:15
the things that I did know though when I
01:36:17
was um 18, dropped out of university and
01:36:20
started to get into a world of business
01:36:21
is I was aware because when you look at
01:36:23
like funding data for entrepreneurs that
01:36:25
are black or especially women, it's
01:36:28
clear that there's like a systemic
01:36:30
disadvantage of some sort and I I wonder
01:36:33
someone like yourself who's against this
01:36:35
sort of DEI ideology, how do you contend
01:36:37
with like systemic institutional
01:36:40
discrimination towards certain groups
01:36:41
which does pose objectively real
01:36:44
disadvantage on them being able to climb
01:36:45
the ladder cuz you said something
01:36:47
earlier about your goal being in Canada
01:36:50
to make sure everybody like has a fair
01:36:51
shot.
01:36:52
>> That's right.
01:36:53
>> How does one counteract the systemic
01:36:55
issues around race or gender or whatever
01:36:57
it might be that stop that being
01:36:59
possible? Cuz I I find myself in an
01:37:02
interesting position where like on one
01:37:03
end I'm like I want to be treated like
01:37:05
everybody else,
01:37:06
>> right? And I've always felt that way.
01:37:07
And I've always I've always actually to
01:37:09
some degree cringed a little bit when I
01:37:11
felt like someone was giving me special
01:37:15
treatment
01:37:17
because my skin color was different
01:37:19
because it in some way made me feel like
01:37:21
I was at a disadvantage which I know can
01:37:23
become quite self-fulfilling. However,
01:37:24
on the other side of the spectrum, I do
01:37:27
also believe that there is like systemic
01:37:30
discrimination that is going to hold
01:37:32
certain groups back if there isn't
01:37:34
something done to level that playing
01:37:37
field. So, look, I think the answer is
01:37:40
equality. There has to be strict
01:37:42
equality and equal treatment regardless
01:37:45
of race, gender, uh, ethnicity,
01:37:47
religion. And that is the that is the
01:37:51
ideal to which we were all striving. And
01:37:53
I think if we get back to that, then we
01:37:56
can give everybody a chance to achieve
01:37:58
based on their own merit. Uh what we
01:38:00
need is a meritocracy that is colorblind
01:38:04
and and judges people based on what they
01:38:07
can do.
01:38:07
>> People aren't color blind, though, are
01:38:09
they?
01:38:09
>> No.
01:38:10
>> I think I my dad said to me when I was
01:38:11
younger, he said, "Everybody's
01:38:13
prejudice." I remember sitting in the
01:38:14
back of the car, "My dad's white." And I
01:38:16
was and I'm thinking, "My dad just said
01:38:18
that he thinks everyone might be like
01:38:19
might be racist and everyone's
01:38:20
prejudice." I'm like, "Is my dad
01:38:22
racist?" But um as I've got gotten
01:38:24
older, I realized that he to some degree
01:38:26
is telling the truth. That prejudice is
01:38:28
part of how we survived as humans and
01:38:30
we're able to understand danger from
01:38:31
not. So prejudice is something that I
01:38:33
think is very prevalent in society
01:38:35
whether we believe we're not and
01:38:37
everyone else is. So if prejudice is
01:38:39
very prevalent in society, does there
01:38:40
need to be measures that counteract that
01:38:43
to give everybody a fair chance? Our
01:38:46
institutions have to be conscious about
01:38:47
making sure that we are judging people
01:38:49
based on their merit and they should you
01:38:52
know work aggressively to make sure that
01:38:55
there is that everyone regardless of
01:38:57
where they come from their background
01:38:59
has a chance to succeed get the job get
01:39:02
the promotion move up the ladder I don't
01:39:05
think that is achieved by breaking
01:39:08
people down into more and more different
01:39:10
groups and divisions by trying to build
01:39:13
the barriers between pe people based on
01:39:17
race and gender. I think it's by
01:39:19
actually removing them. So the the
01:39:21
problem I have with with wokeism is it
01:39:23
it seems almost designed to divide
01:39:26
people. And that is exactly the opposite
01:39:29
of the objective that we all sought when
01:39:32
we uh when we pushed for racial equality
01:39:35
and personal and personal freedom and
01:39:37
responsibility.
01:39:38
>> How does one contend with the systemic
01:39:40
issues though the like the prejudices? I
01:39:42
I I remember reading about studies where
01:39:44
like if you they got a bunch of people
01:39:45
and got them to apply for jobs and just
01:39:47
based on the names whether they were
01:39:49
like a a typically white name versus say
01:39:52
a typically black name the response rate
01:39:54
is marketkedly different.
01:39:56
>> Well, I go back to my first principles.
01:39:58
I think that government is responsible
01:40:00
for a lot of the the barriers that are
01:40:02
put in place. So, let me give you some
01:40:04
examples. When government brings into
01:40:06
place these anti- housing policies that
01:40:09
I described, they v they they impact far
01:40:12
more on minorities and disadvantaged
01:40:14
people than they do on established uh
01:40:17
people obviously because if if you're
01:40:19
new to a country or you come from a a
01:40:21
poorer background, you won't have a
01:40:23
house and then you're the one who's
01:40:25
going to pay the biggest price for the
01:40:26
fact that government is making housing
01:40:28
unaffordable. If you think at the
01:40:30
occupational licensing rules that I just
01:40:32
described that block immigrants from
01:40:33
having working in their professions even
01:40:35
when they're thoroughly qualified, those
01:40:37
are government-imposed obstacles that
01:40:40
prevent people from getting ahead. Also,
01:40:43
a lot of these soft on crime policies
01:40:45
have been sold to us on the grounds that
01:40:47
they're going to help minorities by
01:40:49
ensuring that they we we don't have as
01:40:51
high a conviction rate. Well, what
01:40:52
they've actually done is that in many
01:40:54
minority communities where the
01:40:56
law-abiding people are now suffering as
01:40:59
a result of
01:41:01
criminals of all backgrounds. And so,
01:41:04
ironically, it's actually government
01:41:06
policies that are causing people of
01:41:08
disadvantaged backgrounds to suffer even
01:41:10
more. So, wokeism accentuates all of
01:41:14
those problems rather than solving them.
01:41:16
So I'm interested in solving problems to
01:41:18
give everybody the opportunity to live a
01:41:20
safe, affordable, opportunityfilled
01:41:22
life. And wokeism is not doing that. The
01:41:25
actually get creating a free market,
01:41:28
free enterprise economy with free people
01:41:30
who have free speech. That that's the
01:41:32
the single best way to give people of
01:41:34
all racial backgrounds a better chance
01:41:36
in life.
01:41:37
>> Again, I'm holding the position of uh
01:41:39
the DEI to try and I like the clash of
01:41:41
ideas because it helps me to think
01:41:43
through these things. I've never had the
01:41:44
chance to ask somebody these kind of
01:41:46
questions before. And on that point of
01:41:47
housing, one of the things that I I
01:41:48
found to be quite surprising was that
01:41:51
black mortgage applicants are up to 200%
01:41:54
more likely to be denied a home loan
01:41:56
than white applicants with the similar
01:41:58
financial profile.
01:42:00
>> This is in Canada.
01:42:01
>> These stats are for the West. So,
01:42:02
>> okay,
01:42:03
>> but but what is going on there? because
01:42:06
it says that they have similar financial
01:42:08
profiles, yet their their applications
01:42:11
are being denied up to 200% more than
01:42:16
white home buyers.
01:42:18
>> So, I had not seen those data that data
01:42:19
point before, but I would say that this
01:42:21
is these sound like really stupid
01:42:23
bankers um because they're making a bad
01:42:25
decision to deny people a mortgage and
01:42:29
ultimately deny themselves the business
01:42:31
um if they're if if that's how they're
01:42:33
making their judgments. And then DI
01:42:35
comes in to make sure that their
01:42:36
judgments aren't stupid.
01:42:37
>> Well, I'm not sure that DEI cures
01:42:40
stupidity though. In some cases, we've
01:42:43
seen it cause more.
01:42:44
>> That's how it shows up, right? It's like
01:42:45
a logical next step, which is there's
01:42:47
prejudice going on in the system, which
01:42:49
is making it in inequal.
01:42:53
And it's a DEI becomes this corrective
01:42:55
measure so those stupid bankers don't
01:42:56
make stupid decisions.
01:42:58
>> But but DEI has been in place now for
01:43:01
several decades. and how is it working?
01:43:04
You're reading the statistics to show
01:43:05
that it's not. So maybe it's not
01:43:07
actually doing what it's designed to do.
01:43:09
Maybe it's doing other things.
01:43:10
>> The other thing that I actually was
01:43:11
really keen to talk about, I just
01:43:12
realized, is um
01:43:13
>> Sure.
01:43:14
>> is this
01:43:16
>> Oh, that's little Valentina there. She
01:43:18
loves to be on daddy's shoulders.
01:43:20
>> How old is Valentina?
01:43:21
>> Valentina is seven years old.
01:43:23
>> Seven years old. And she's she's
01:43:24
non-verbal.
01:43:25
>> She's non-verbal. Yes.
01:43:26
>> What does what does non-verbal mean?
01:43:29
>> She is autistic. She's on the spectrum.
01:43:32
So, um, she her biggest the biggest
01:43:35
difference between Valentina and other
01:43:38
children is the ability to communicate
01:43:41
verbally. Um, so we're working very hard
01:43:44
on that. She's making some encouraging
01:43:46
progress, but she does uh have some
01:43:49
challenges in that area. She's um very
01:43:52
acrobatic and rambunctious. She loves to
01:43:55
climb, swing, bounce, jump, and she is
01:43:59
extremely affectionate. And one of the
01:44:02
superpowers she has is that whatever she
01:44:04
does, she does 100%. She's also 100%
01:44:07
authentic.
01:44:09
>> So, and that's not the case once kids
01:44:11
get old enough to manipulate to get what
01:44:13
they want. They can put on acts and
01:44:15
artififices. She doesn't do that. She's
01:44:16
a the real deal all the time. Uh you
01:44:20
know exactly how she feels because she
01:44:21
indicates it. and she's very blessed to
01:44:24
have a a little brother, Cruz, who
01:44:27
adores her and treats her better than
01:44:29
anyone else in the world.
01:44:32
>> I often hear parents talk about their
01:44:35
concerns with, you know, someone like
01:44:37
Valentina growing up in the world as
01:44:39
non-verbal. You're not going to be here
01:44:40
forever
01:44:41
>> to protect her. And you know, I was
01:44:42
saying to you before, my brother has
01:44:44
three kids under the age of what, seven
01:44:45
years old now. and I've noticed uh just
01:44:48
how much he thinks about how they're
01:44:51
going to be when he's not here. How does
01:44:53
that relate to Valentina being
01:44:55
non-verbal and and how you think about
01:44:56
the future?
01:44:57
>> Well, a lot of things. Like one, we
01:45:00
obviously have to build up a nest egg
01:45:02
for her so that if she can't earn
01:45:04
income, she will have uh uh the
01:45:06
resources for a great life after we're
01:45:09
gone. And second, we're really hoping
01:45:11
that there we forge a very permanent and
01:45:15
um
01:45:16
deep bond between her and her brother
01:45:19
Cruz because he will be there. And he
01:45:22
one of the things he says again and
01:45:23
again is my job is to protect Valentina
01:45:26
from bad guys. So um this is a good
01:45:29
attitude especially that they are
01:45:31
actually in the same class even though
01:45:33
she's older. She is in his class at
01:45:35
school and so she's daddy he's daddy's
01:45:38
eyes uh to protect our little princess.
01:45:42
But I think when he's older I I believe
01:45:45
based on his nature that he's going to
01:45:46
be there for her and um we we are
01:45:49
building a plan towards that.
01:45:51
>> My job is to protect Valentina from bad
01:45:53
guys.
01:45:54
>> That's right.
01:45:57
It's it's a it's a great instinct.
01:46:00
>> How has it changed your politics?
01:46:06
It's reinforced my sense of um
01:46:12
compassion for people who can't provide
01:46:14
for themselves. And you know, I've
01:46:16
talked a lot about how government should
01:46:17
be limited. I do think there's a very
01:46:20
real role for government to help people
01:46:22
who genuinely cannot provide for
01:46:24
themselves. People who suffer from with
01:46:26
disabilities being probably the best
01:46:28
example.
01:46:29
And um it has reinforced to me that we
01:46:33
have to also have policies that
01:46:35
recognize the inherent worth of every
01:46:37
individual.
01:46:39
Too often governments have seen people
01:46:43
with disabilities as just someone they
01:46:46
have to care for but not someone who can
01:46:48
contribute. And I believe that everybody
01:46:50
has something to contribute and that we
01:46:53
should try to unlock that in every human
01:46:55
being. Um, we don't know exactly what
01:46:58
Valentina will do, but I believe she
01:47:00
will do some kind of a job at some point
01:47:02
in the future and um, I'm very
01:47:05
passionate about policies that enable
01:47:08
people with disabilities to have work
01:47:10
opportunities, even if it's just very
01:47:12
limited, to design programs so that when
01:47:15
they have a, for example, cash or
01:47:17
medication support, it doesn't get
01:47:18
robbed from them just because they get a
01:47:20
job. So, it has focused my mind a lot on
01:47:24
people. It gives you a sense of
01:47:25
compassionate because when you see
01:47:27
somebody who might be different like I
01:47:29
see my daughter in that person. I see my
01:47:32
daughter my often my wife is very good
01:47:34
at this. She'll see someone who might be
01:47:36
acting differently in a crowd and other
01:47:38
people are looking at that person and
01:47:40
she'll grab my hand. She'll say I think
01:47:42
he's autistic and then she will often go
01:47:44
and talk to that that boy and make him
01:47:46
feel loved. Um so compassion is about
01:47:50
feeling what the other person feels. And
01:47:52
you have but a greater ability to do
01:47:54
that when there's a loved one close to
01:47:55
you who has the experience.
01:47:58
>> An interesting range of emotions to be
01:48:01
the father, the parent of a autistic
01:48:04
child.
01:48:05
>> I know this because I get messages on
01:48:08
mass from our audience members who have
01:48:10
an autistic child.
01:48:12
>> Yes.
01:48:13
>> What what can you say to to the range of
01:48:14
emotions you feel?
01:48:16
My wife was able to discern that there
01:48:20
was something different about Valentina
01:48:22
very early on when she was still a baby
01:48:24
because she didn't make a lot of eye
01:48:25
contact and there was a period during
01:48:27
which she was not very communicative at
01:48:30
all. Um even in ways that babies
01:48:32
normally are. Uh there wasn't a lot of
01:48:34
reciprocal communication to start with.
01:48:38
So when we went for the diagnosis
01:48:41
we were not that shocked. So, you know,
01:48:44
when the when the I think she was a
01:48:46
nurse or she was a specialist gave us
01:48:48
the diagnosis and she was like paused
01:48:50
like waiting for us to burst into tears.
01:48:51
I mean, we were just kind of like,
01:48:53
"Yeah, we we expected that and let's get
01:48:56
on with it." And then we just started
01:48:57
doing the things that we had to do. And
01:48:59
my message to parents of autistic
01:49:01
children is just focus on what you can
01:49:02
control. Get on to the things that you
01:49:04
have to do. Get a speech therapist. Get
01:49:06
the play structures in the house that
01:49:08
they love. with Valentina. It's it's a
01:49:10
it's a b bouncy castle and a little
01:49:12
trampoline and a lot of building blocks
01:49:15
and enjoy them. Like they they're she
01:49:17
she's so much fun. Like she's a fun
01:49:19
little girl. She loves to jump. She's
01:49:21
scared of nothing. If anything, the
01:49:23
problem is she's a bit too much of a
01:49:25
daredevil, but she's she's a thrilling
01:49:28
little girl to be around. She loves to
01:49:29
like you see all the pictures with her
01:49:31
on my shoulder. She always loves to
01:49:32
climb on my on my back and she loves to
01:49:35
run. She loves me to run with her on her
01:49:37
shoulders. So like en enjoy the special
01:49:40
things that they bring because they they
01:49:42
they are magical. They're they're
01:49:44
they're wonderful. They're just they
01:49:47
they call it autism because they're
01:49:48
autotapping
01:50:01
on something might might give her a
01:50:02
tremendous sensation that we can't
01:50:04
appreciate.
01:50:06
On the other side, minor irritants that
01:50:08
you and I would brush off might drive
01:50:11
her completely crazy.
01:50:12
>> And so, if she's having a meltdown, it's
01:50:14
not because she's a bad kid. It's
01:50:16
because she's going through a horrific
01:50:18
sensation that we can't quite
01:50:19
understand. So, but you just have to
01:50:22
embrace it all. And um it's a lot of
01:50:24
extra leg work that goes into a child
01:50:28
that has these um conditions, but it's
01:50:30
worth it and it's rewarding in the end.
01:50:33
She uh you know obviously not met her,
01:50:35
but from all the photos she she makes
01:50:37
you smile just looking at the photos.
01:50:38
>> She makes everyone smile and she's got
01:50:40
uh she's very popular at school. The
01:50:42
kids are very nice to her, by the way.
01:50:44
Like we we we get secondhand reports and
01:50:46
it's like they love her. They're sweet
01:50:49
to her. Um she has a little boy that has
01:50:52
a crush on her, so I'm keeping an eye on
01:50:54
that. Um but she's so affectionate. Like
01:50:57
we went to a fall fair one time and
01:50:59
there were these little old ladies
01:51:01
sitting there and Valentina just decided
01:51:02
she liked this little old lady and went
01:51:04
and sat on her lap like complete
01:51:05
stranger. But that's how she is. She
01:51:08
decides she likes you and you're in.
01:51:11
>> What are your um what are your closing
01:51:12
statements? We've got listeners that
01:51:13
are, you know, all over the world, the
01:51:14
United States, Canada, Australia, the
01:51:16
UK. If you um if you had to send one
01:51:19
final message to them, what would that
01:51:22
message be in this moment in time that
01:51:24
we find ourselves in?
01:51:26
Well, I'm actually optimistic about the
01:51:27
future and I think Canada's got a very
01:51:29
bright future. Um, I think the world
01:51:31
should look to Canada. We have the most
01:51:32
resources of anyone in the world. We
01:51:34
have probably the most uh diverse and
01:51:36
educated population. Uh, we have uh the
01:51:40
the most fresh water, the um uh the
01:51:43
second biggest land mass. Uh, and I
01:51:46
think it's going the future belongs to
01:51:48
Canada. We're going to be an incredible
01:51:50
place. Uh, the MB of the world
01:51:52
>> if and so if we if we do the right
01:51:54
things. I don't want to be egotistical
01:51:55
about it, but I think it would help if I
01:51:56
were prime minister as well.
01:51:59
>> I love Canada. It's one of my my
01:52:00
favorite places in the world for so many
01:52:02
reasons. Um when I told you when I went
01:52:03
to Toronto for the first time, I felt
01:52:04
like I was at home.
01:52:05
>> Yeah.
01:52:06
>> Um because I think you know Brits and
01:52:07
Canadians have a lot in common.
01:52:08
>> Absolutely.
01:52:09
>> Including a king.
01:52:10
>> Um
01:52:10
>> yeah, you would be very uh wellreceived
01:52:12
in Canada. So consider um coming.
01:52:16
>> I I go all the time when whenever I'm uh
01:52:18
whenever I'm invited to go and I've been
01:52:20
once or twice on vacation as well. So I
01:52:22
hope to be back there soon. And uh
01:52:23
actually going to do a tour there at
01:52:24
some point with with the Dio to meet all
01:52:26
the people that listen. So very excited
01:52:28
about that as well.
01:52:28
>> Oh, you'll bring you'll bring up big
01:52:30
crowds.
01:52:30
>> Oh,
01:52:30
>> it'll be fun.
01:52:31
>> We have a closing tradition on this
01:52:33
podcast where the last guest leaves a
01:52:34
question for the next guest not knowing
01:52:35
who they're leaving it for. And the
01:52:37
question left for you is h
01:52:42
what are you most afraid of and how do
01:52:45
you deal with that fear?
01:52:50
Hm.
01:52:52
I don't have a lot of fears. I mean, for
01:52:56
myself, um I would say going back to
01:52:59
family, it would be that something would
01:53:00
happen to my kids. Uh you know, just
01:53:04
you hear uh terrible terrible things in
01:53:07
the news. I was just uh unfort you know,
01:53:09
unfortunately I I had to go to a funeral
01:53:11
for uh mass shooting victims in Tumblr
01:53:15
Ridge, British Columbia. And I just, you
01:53:18
know, every parent worries about
01:53:20
something happening to their kids. I
01:53:22
think that would be my biggest fear.
01:53:24
>> What about for Canada at large?
01:53:26
>> The biggest fear I have for Canada is
01:53:27
that
01:53:30
we just keep
01:53:32
blocking our own potential and declining
01:53:35
and opportunity vanishes and slowly our
01:53:38
people lose the promise that the country
01:53:41
gave me and so many generations. And so
01:53:46
my fear is that we become the the frog
01:53:48
in boiling water and it just gets slowly
01:53:52
warmer and warmer and warmer and the
01:53:54
frog really never notices.
01:53:56
>> Is that the trajectory of travel?
01:53:58
>> I think it is unfortunately but I think
01:54:00
we can change that trajectory if we make
01:54:03
uh some big reversals uh in direction.
01:54:05
>> And lastly, what about for the world
01:54:07
generally the western world?
01:54:11
I would say my biggest fear is that uh
01:54:13
the western world does not stay true to
01:54:15
its foundational principles. I want the
01:54:19
western world to stay true to the to the
01:54:21
basic principles of that that grew out
01:54:23
of the Magna Carta, a freedom of um
01:54:26
government that is servant uh people
01:54:29
that are masters and that the free
01:54:33
democracies not only succeed at home but
01:54:36
work together abroad to preserve the
01:54:38
that that uh civilization.
01:54:41
>> Thank you so much. Thank you for taking
01:54:42
the time to to come have this
01:54:43
conversation with me and answering all
01:54:44
of my questions. Um, it's, you know, I
01:54:46
don't like interviewing politicians
01:54:48
because they are very slippery,
01:54:50
>> right?
01:54:50
>> And they slip and slide away from
01:54:52
answering things in a way that makes the
01:54:54
the very essence of why we started this
01:54:55
show feel like we're um like we're not
01:54:59
delivering for the audience who want to
01:55:01
know the truth, whether it's ugly or
01:55:03
indifferent or whatever it might be. And
01:55:05
um, I've really enjoyed the conversation
01:55:06
because I feel like you answered my
01:55:07
questions to the best of your ability.
01:55:08
>> Thank you.
01:55:09
>> And that's often that's not usually the
01:55:10
case with politicians. And
01:55:12
>> thank you. I think they think that's the
01:55:14
right approach, but actually I think in
01:55:17
a world that's now more of a glass box
01:55:18
than ever before and not a black box
01:55:20
where you can paint the image of
01:55:21
something on the outside, being
01:55:22
transparent and being willing to come
01:55:24
into these environments and your team
01:55:25
didn't tell me anything was off limits.
01:55:27
They didn't say there was anything I
01:55:28
couldn't ask you, right?
01:55:29
>> They didn't ask to be able to edit this.
01:55:31
And I would like more politicians to to
01:55:34
follow in that vein. YouTube have this
01:55:36
new crazy algorithm where they know
01:55:37
exactly what video you would like to
01:55:39
watch next based on AI and all of your
01:55:42
viewing behavior. And the algorithm says
01:55:44
that this video is the perfect video for
01:55:47
you. It's different for everybody
01:55:48
looking right now. Check this video out
01:55:50
and I bet you you might love
