00:00:01
She was extraordinary.
00:00:10
Um, my mother taught me a lot about just
00:00:13
like
00:00:15
bringing intention to what you do.
00:00:17
Bringing sorry
00:00:20
and being the child of accomplished
00:00:22
parents. Most people thought that I
00:00:23
would lack the ambition, the
00:00:25
preparedness, but my mother taught me
00:00:27
that being underestimated is not a bad
00:00:29
thing. It's very powerful thing actually
00:00:31
and it almost always worked to the
00:00:34
detriment of the person who
00:00:35
underestimated me.
00:00:36
>> From real estate to her own
00:00:38
multi-million dollar fashion line,
00:00:39
Ivanka Trump continues to carve her own
00:00:42
path into the business world, succeeding
00:00:43
at every turn.
00:00:45
>> And then you learn 2 weeks before he
00:00:47
announces your father decides he wants
00:00:49
to be president of the United States.
00:00:50
Did you have any sense that this was at
00:00:52
all on the horizon?
00:00:53
>> Not really. And then when he pulled the
00:00:54
trigger, it was full steam. Well, most
00:00:56
people wouldn't give up an $800 million
00:00:58
annual business to go into government.
00:01:00
Why did you?
00:01:01
>> He asked us for help. He's like, "But I
00:01:03
have to warn you. They're going to come
00:01:04
at you hard. They're probably going to
00:01:06
hate you." But one of the things I've
00:01:07
learned in moments of tremendous
00:01:09
pressure and scrutiny where any slip up
00:01:12
is completely weaponized against you is
00:01:14
to find the signal in the noise. I just
00:01:16
don't get distracted by the outside
00:01:18
noise. That's probably the thing that
00:01:20
has been most helpful to me in terms of
00:01:22
performance and success because you have
00:01:25
a choice only in how you respond.
00:01:27
>> You've said politics is a pretty dark
00:01:29
world. This is quite a difficult
00:01:30
question to ask, but when you heard the
00:01:32
news that there was an assassination
00:01:33
attempt on your father's life, do you
00:01:35
remember where you were and like what's
00:01:36
that like as a daughter?
00:01:48
This is super interesting to me. My team
00:01:50
given me this report to show me how many
00:01:51
of you that watch this show subscribe.
00:01:53
And some of you have told us according
00:01:54
to this that you are unsubscribed from
00:01:56
the channel randomly. So favor to ask
00:01:58
all of you. Please could you check right
00:02:00
now if you've hit the subscribe button.
00:02:01
If you are a regular viewer of the show
00:02:03
and you like what we do here, we're
00:02:04
approaching quite a significant landmark
00:02:06
on this show in terms of a subscriber
00:02:07
number. So, if there was one simple free
00:02:10
thing that you could do to help us, my
00:02:12
team, everyone here, to keep this show
00:02:14
free, to keep it improving year over
00:02:16
year and week over week, it is just to
00:02:18
hit that subscribe button and to double
00:02:19
check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
00:02:20
ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
00:02:22
you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
00:02:24
I'll make sure every single week, every
00:02:26
single month, we fight harder and harder
00:02:28
and harder and harder to bring you the
00:02:29
guests and conversations that you want
00:02:30
to hear. I've stayed true to that
00:02:32
promise since the very beginning of the
00:02:33
D of Sio, and I will not let you down.
00:02:36
Please help us. Really appreciate it.
00:02:37
Let's get on with the show.
00:02:46
>> Ivanka, you um you don't do many
00:02:49
interviews, do you?
00:02:50
>> Not really. No.
00:02:51
>> Why don't you do much media stuff or
00:02:53
podcasting or interviews?
00:02:56
>> I actually don't know. I think I'm I get
00:02:59
sort of really locked in and heads down
00:03:01
on what I'm working on
00:03:03
>> that
00:03:05
I tend to kind of put on blinders and
00:03:08
just go, but I like to have
00:03:09
conversations in longer form with people
00:03:12
that I admire.
00:03:13
>> I think the reason why I um I do this is
00:03:16
because I see I naturally see everybody
00:03:17
as like a jigsaw puzzle.
00:03:19
>> And you've lived an extraordinary life.
00:03:21
you've lived an extraordinary atypical
00:03:24
>> life that I mean it's safe to say almost
00:03:26
nobody on planet earth has has ever
00:03:27
experienced and so I think I asked that
00:03:29
question just to be completely honest at
00:03:31
the top because the life you've lived
00:03:33
that we'll get into is is one that would
00:03:36
have shaped you in a number of ways and
00:03:40
one of them is I think from what I read
00:03:43
things that you had said and different
00:03:44
experiences you had as a child is just
00:03:46
like trusting people
00:03:49
>> you know it's interesting I I grew up
00:03:52
the child of wealthy and accomplished
00:03:55
parents.
00:03:56
>> And so I do think there's like um a
00:03:59
natural barrier that goes up. You're
00:04:01
you're worried about people, especially
00:04:03
when you're a kid, um liking you for the
00:04:05
wrong reasons. I see this now with my
00:04:07
son. You know, he wants to be loved by
00:04:10
his friends, and I appreciate that.
00:04:11
That's that's good for who he is, not
00:04:14
for who we are, and certainly not for
00:04:15
what we have. So I do think being the
00:04:18
child of of of famous um parents and
00:04:22
living such a privileged life, I had
00:04:24
this
00:04:26
guard and um that guard served me really
00:04:30
well for a long time. Like I I didn't
00:04:32
have any friends despite the
00:04:36
really tumultuous
00:04:38
life that I've had, ups and downs, who
00:04:40
really disappointed me. meaning close
00:04:42
close close friends who who didn't show
00:04:44
up for me or or who changed because of
00:04:47
my circumstances or
00:04:48
>> what was happening around me and I've
00:04:50
learned for me I mean you were saying
00:04:52
the purpose of life for me it's you know
00:04:54
the expansion and not contraction of the
00:04:56
heart and that's hard as you get older
00:04:59
you know how do you live a life of of
00:05:02
service and rooted in and love and
00:05:05
connection and I've learned more and
00:05:07
more that those walls
00:05:10
they don't serve you and the only way to
00:05:15
have connection which is so fundamental
00:05:17
to the human experience is to um is to
00:05:20
build it and that requires trust.
00:05:23
>> So I have to trust people. Now I have a
00:05:26
good radar. I'm not foolish. I'm
00:05:28
>> I think I'm a very good read of people
00:05:30
and I think it's one of um my strengths
00:05:34
>> and I think it's why I haven't been
00:05:37
surprised by a lot of people. Um, so I
00:05:40
read pretty quickly, but I also have had
00:05:42
to teach myself rather than grow sort of
00:05:45
cynical as one tends to as they get
00:05:48
older. I've really actually taught
00:05:50
myself to be more trusting. And to the
00:05:53
extent that means periodically I'll be
00:05:55
burned like that's I'm okay with that
00:05:58
trade-off because I think it will lead
00:05:59
to more meaningful connections in my
00:06:02
life.
00:06:02
>> Probably nets out better right in the
00:06:03
long term.
00:06:04
>> I think so. I have this photo here of a
00:06:06
very smaller and
00:06:09
>> so funny. I look at this and I see my
00:06:10
daughter.
00:06:11
>> Really?
00:06:11
>> That was like the first thing when I saw
00:06:13
that photo.
00:06:14
>> At what age did you realize that life
00:06:16
for you was slightly different from the
00:06:18
average person? Like when does a child
00:06:20
realize that?
00:06:22
>> H
00:06:24
I think there was always a lot of
00:06:29
media attention and scrutiny. You see
00:06:31
it, you experience it very early on. And
00:06:33
I think my parents did a really good job
00:06:35
trying to shelter us from it. And it was
00:06:38
different then without social media. You
00:06:40
know, not everyone I think the
00:06:42
experience our children have where
00:06:44
anywhere they go people have a recording
00:06:47
device in their hands, their iPhone um
00:06:50
and can take pictures of them and you
00:06:52
know it's so um you're so exposed during
00:06:56
um during your formative years and
00:06:58
thankfully I did not have that growing
00:06:59
up but there were times I felt it. I
00:07:02
remember
00:07:03
I wanted to be a dancer, a ballet
00:07:06
dancer. And you know, my mom um was an
00:07:09
incredible skier. She skied on the
00:07:11
national team for then Czechoslovakia,
00:07:13
now Czech Republic. And so she really
00:07:15
believed in the importance of of sport
00:07:18
for cultivating discipline and um so she
00:07:22
really encouraged this. And I was
00:07:23
dancing at Giuliard, the school of
00:07:25
American Ballet here in New York. I was
00:07:27
in the Nutcracker and I remember I was
00:07:29
probably eight and I was, you know, like
00:07:32
some small role in the Nutcracker. I was
00:07:33
a party girl and an angel. Those were
00:07:36
like the entry roles where you like
00:07:38
dance at the party, uh, where the the
00:07:41
man with the Nutcracker arrives and then
00:07:42
you're in that angel scene. And I
00:07:44
remember being so excited and was my
00:07:46
first Nutcracker.
00:07:48
And, um, Michael Jackson had just moved
00:07:51
into Trump Tower and was literally our
00:07:54
neighbor in Trump Tower. And my father
00:07:56
sees him one day, you know, passing in
00:07:58
the lobby. I'm with him. I said, 'You
00:08:00
know, my daughter's in the Nutcracker.
00:08:02
You should come. You should come see a
00:08:04
performance. So, he comes to the
00:08:06
Nutcracker with my father at the height
00:08:08
of his fame to watch me dance. And now
00:08:12
this in retrospect could be like, wow,
00:08:15
what a cool experience. But I was
00:08:17
horrified. I'm like, this is I was so
00:08:20
embarrassed. I thought we had ruined the
00:08:22
Nutcracker. Everyone was dancing with
00:08:24
one glove. people who produced the show
00:08:26
were, you know, hysterical that everyone
00:08:29
was dancing with one glove. I thought it
00:08:31
was all my fault and this was like just
00:08:33
a wild childhood experience. I had
00:08:34
things like that happen that were so far
00:08:37
from normal that it's actually like
00:08:39
comical in retrospect, but I think the
00:08:41
the dayto-day was like really grounded.
00:08:44
My grandmother and uh and grandfather
00:08:47
before he passed on my mother's side
00:08:48
really raised us. My grandmother cooked
00:08:51
every meal we ate for, you know, most of
00:08:53
my childhood.
00:08:54
>> And uh Bubby
00:08:56
>> Bubby Bubby.
00:08:57
>> Yeah. So she taught me um a type of
00:09:03
unconditional love and tenderness and um
00:09:07
I think more than anything she was just
00:09:09
this un that's her. She's um
00:09:13
unbelievably nurturing. I'd come home
00:09:15
from school and, you know, before I'd be
00:09:18
out of the shower, she would have
00:09:20
laundered my clothes and folded them and
00:09:22
put them back on my bed. She was always
00:09:24
feeding me and food for her was very
00:09:26
much like an expression of love. I
00:09:28
remember when I became a teenager and
00:09:29
I'd sleep later and later, she'd wake me
00:09:32
up for lunch, you know, just like, god
00:09:34
forbid I wasn't being fed at all at all
00:09:36
hours. But
00:09:37
>> I can see she means the world to you.
00:09:39
>> She does. She's 98 years old and um you
00:09:42
know her health has suffered and you
00:09:46
know it's it's been a little bit of a
00:09:47
difficult time for her but I I feel so
00:09:50
strongly for for me and my children to
00:09:52
have the experience to be there for her
00:09:55
in just like a small fraction of the way
00:09:57
that she was there for me is such an
00:09:59
extraordinary privilege. and for them to
00:10:01
grow up with her at our table every
00:10:03
single meal um each night and her
00:10:06
telling her stories and stories of my
00:10:08
mother who they sadly didn't get to
00:10:11
know. Um
00:10:14
>> are you okay? I can see
00:10:16
>> No, I'm Yes, I'm great. I I have a lot
00:10:21
of um I have a lot of love for this
00:10:23
woman. So,
00:10:31
This doesn't happen to me often.
00:10:37
>> What is that um mixture of emotions that
00:10:39
you're experiencing?
00:10:41
>> Um
00:10:44
she taught me so much just about love
00:10:47
and we were talking before about
00:10:49
connection. Um,
00:10:52
and uh, you know, it's it's been hard to
00:10:56
see her now as she as she struggles, but
00:10:59
um,
00:11:01
but she's uh, it's a blessing to have
00:11:03
her in our home and living with us and
00:11:07
very special person.
00:11:14
Maybe I'll have a tissue.
00:11:17
Thank you.
00:11:20
It's a real credit to her.
00:11:22
>> Yeah.
00:11:22
>> It's often a testament um to the person
00:11:25
and the value that they've added to your
00:11:26
life and how they were there for you
00:11:28
that you would feel
00:11:30
feel the way you do about her and that's
00:11:32
so like visible in your face. You know,
00:11:34
she must have been quite formative.
00:11:36
>> Oh, for sure. Um for sure.
00:11:41
So, she's been
00:11:43
she's an amazing person.
00:11:47
You said that she she was really taking
00:11:49
care of you
00:11:50
>> and and sort of at the age of 10. Mother
00:11:52
and father, I'm assuming very very busy.
00:11:54
>> Yeah.
00:11:55
>> Explain that to me.
00:11:57
>> You know, my mother was an incredible
00:12:00
trailblazer. Um an amazing example for
00:12:04
me of
00:12:06
strength and resilience and glamour and
00:12:11
um determination and ambition. And she
00:12:13
was a great mother, too.
00:12:16
But she would also say like she couldn't
00:12:17
do it alone and she wasn't pretending
00:12:19
she could. So she surrounded us with
00:12:22
people who loved us. We had um two
00:12:25
amazing nannies. One of them worked for
00:12:28
my mother until the day she died. The
00:12:31
other um is worked for my mother until
00:12:34
the day my mother died um and still
00:12:36
works with us today. She worked as after
00:12:39
we grew up she worked as my mother's
00:12:41
personal assistant. So they were very
00:12:42
much part of our lives and and part of
00:12:44
our extended family and of course my
00:12:46
grandmother who she trusted completely
00:12:48
with us. So so she showed me a lot at a
00:12:52
time when
00:12:54
you know not many women were doing what
00:12:56
my mother was doing um inside the
00:12:59
boardroom and on the construction sites
00:13:02
all the time by the way with 5-in heels
00:13:05
and like perfectly caught hair. So she
00:13:08
made it look incredibly easy, but it was
00:13:11
and continues to be very challenging to
00:13:14
balance work and life like that,
00:13:16
especially at a time where what she was
00:13:18
doing was so singular. So she she really
00:13:21
and my mother served as an unbelievable
00:13:24
role model for me for what is possible.
00:13:27
How to be an amazing mother who is
00:13:30
loving and nurturing and fun and
00:13:33
provides for her children and and also
00:13:35
to be unadashedly
00:13:38
um
00:13:40
and doggedly pursuing one's
00:13:44
goals in in a professional capacity. So
00:13:47
she did that when she was married to my
00:13:49
father. she did that um following their
00:13:51
divorce and um and really was just an
00:13:55
amazing an amazing mentor for me. You're
00:13:58
growing up in a context where your
00:13:59
family are privileged, they have um they
00:14:02
have no notoriety and the both parents
00:14:05
are quite absent by way of them being so
00:14:08
busy and they're also kind of
00:14:10
>> I wouldn't say absent but
00:14:12
>> you know my mother wasn't home cooking
00:14:14
us meals. my grandmother was.
00:14:16
>> Mhm.
00:14:16
>> But my mother was home when we ate them
00:14:18
and then she'd go out again. You know,
00:14:20
her and my father were actively building
00:14:23
their life and pursuing their passions.
00:14:26
And for my mom, much like me today, you
00:14:28
know, one of her creative expressions
00:14:29
came in the form of design and
00:14:31
architecture. She wasn't absent and and
00:14:34
you know, neither was my father. So, he
00:14:35
was filled more typical of that
00:14:38
generation male role where he was less
00:14:40
like present. But there was never a
00:14:43
doubt in my mind that I was his top
00:14:46
priority and that he was available to
00:14:48
me. So I used to call him from the pay
00:14:51
phone at uh at Chapen. It was in a broom
00:14:54
closet and never once did he not pick up
00:14:57
and sometimes his office would be filled
00:14:59
with people of um you know he'd be in
00:15:02
the middle of a deal or a negotiation or
00:15:04
some politician or whatever it was and
00:15:06
he'd always put me on speaker phone and
00:15:08
then start the conversation by telling
00:15:09
everyone how I got great grades and I'd
00:15:12
start to blush. Um but he always picked
00:15:15
up.
00:15:16
>> They weren't absent. Did I what?
00:15:17
>> Miss him?
00:15:19
>> No, because I didn't feel like they I
00:15:21
didn't feel like he was absent. it was
00:15:22
just different like he wasn't attending
00:15:25
all of our sports games but by the way
00:15:27
few parents were um you know four
00:15:29
decades ago there's a lot more sort of
00:15:32
active participation like the way I am
00:15:35
in my kids' life the way my husband is I
00:15:37
I think it is you know a little
00:15:39
different especially um for fathers
00:15:41
today than than 30 years ago
00:15:43
>> if I sat Avana your mother here next to
00:15:45
us at the same age you are now what
00:15:48
would be the the the fundamental
00:15:49
differences in in those individuals
00:15:54
You know, it's funny. I think back now
00:15:56
and um my mother
00:16:00
and I are both incredibly similar and
00:16:02
very different. So, she had like
00:16:05
over-the-top style and glamour, you
00:16:07
know, and I think in some ways it was a
00:16:10
reaction to the austerity and the
00:16:12
control of growing up in a communist
00:16:15
country in in then Czechoslovakia.
00:16:18
Like, nobody was going to tell her what
00:16:19
to do. nobody was going to tell her what
00:16:21
to say. So, she actually would make my
00:16:24
father look pissy and was hysterical. I
00:16:28
mean, I spent much of my childhood being
00:16:29
like, "Oh, mom, please stop." You know,
00:16:33
it was really interesting. Um, I feel
00:16:36
like today
00:16:39
because my mother passed away um
00:16:42
unexpectedly um from a fall a few years
00:16:45
ago,
00:16:47
there were just like I had a lot of
00:16:48
questions and um and I really dug into
00:16:53
her story and her history and
00:16:56
um and really studied her almost in a
00:16:59
way that I wish I had done when she was
00:17:01
living and I could speak to her
00:17:02
directly. And I think I understand her a
00:17:05
because I'm at a level of maturity and
00:17:08
I've have some of the same issues, you
00:17:10
know, having young children. And I think
00:17:13
I understand her though better today
00:17:15
than I did in some ways in in her life.
00:17:17
Like I see her more fully.
00:17:19
>> And what did you understand more about
00:17:21
her that you didn't understand while she
00:17:23
was here after she passed? She wrote a
00:17:26
book in the final years of her life that
00:17:30
talked a lot more about her childhood
00:17:33
and I think not uncommon um for people
00:17:36
who have experienced you know a lot of
00:17:39
hardship sometimes they compartmentalize
00:17:41
and it's like forward only and this
00:17:44
whole part of her life she never talked
00:17:46
about and I think when you're younger
00:17:47
you ask a lot less questions like now I
00:17:50
would tell everyone who's listening like
00:17:52
really ask the questions especially if
00:17:55
people are a bit of a vault and are less
00:17:58
inclined to to look back in the past
00:18:01
because I you know all of her life
00:18:03
experience very much shaped her.
00:18:06
>> This was a beautiful photo that I found
00:18:07
of of you and I.
00:18:10
>> That was in uh in Mara Lago on my uh
00:18:14
childhood bed. Very uh ornate.
00:18:19
Um, yeah, she was really I mean she was
00:18:22
impossibly glamorous.
00:18:24
>> Yeah, I couldn't find a photo where she
00:18:25
didn't like incredible photos.
00:18:27
>> 9 years old, your mother and father
00:18:30
split up, divorced.
00:18:32
>> It was quite well publicized. Um, that
00:18:34
your father had an affair with somebody.
00:18:36
And this is actually where the quote
00:18:38
that I referenced earlier about trust
00:18:39
comes in because
00:18:41
>> quite remarkably reporters were waiting
00:18:44
outside of your school to take photos of
00:18:46
you and ask questions about your your
00:18:49
father's affair. And the quote that I
00:18:51
read in GQ said this is a quote from
00:18:53
you. If I didn't have that lesson, I
00:18:55
don't know that I'd be tough. It taught
00:18:58
me not to trust anybody. You can never
00:19:00
let your guard down. And I never really
00:19:03
have since that time.
00:19:06
So that's probably the 25year-old
00:19:08
version of me
00:19:10
>> as as you know there's a lot of truth in
00:19:13
it and I think certain defense
00:19:15
mechanisms we create for ourselves are
00:19:17
actually healthy
00:19:18
>> because it was healthy for me not to be
00:19:22
trusting before I had honed my own
00:19:24
instincts and had learn to understand
00:19:27
people and read people. So I think there
00:19:29
was nothing wrong with a 25 or
00:19:33
27year-old
00:19:34
with my lived experience answering that
00:19:36
way. But um but I do like
00:19:39
>> I completely understand though like
00:19:41
every part of me completely understands
00:19:42
that reaction to that event at like 9
00:19:44
years old.
00:19:45
>> Yeah.
00:19:46
>> I mean reporters being at your school or
00:19:49
just generally you know how that must
00:19:51
have been as as a kid in school. Well,
00:19:52
there was a level of aggression that
00:19:54
like even today wouldn't exist with the
00:19:56
paparazzi then, like to be shouting
00:19:58
things and like reading um quotes from
00:20:01
from tabloids to me as I'm leaving
00:20:04
school. To put this in context, this
00:20:07
divorce apparently garnered more
00:20:10
headlines than the OJ Simpson trial. So,
00:20:14
that was a lot. The difference is that
00:20:17
once I stepped into my home, it was a
00:20:20
safe place. you know, unless the TVs
00:20:23
were blaring, which obviously they
00:20:24
weren't during that period of time. So,
00:20:26
I think the difference today for parents
00:20:29
and that I think about a lot with my
00:20:30
kids is you just can't protect them in
00:20:33
the same way. Like social media
00:20:35
amplifies everything. So, while that
00:20:37
experience with those reporters was
00:20:39
extremely combative and aggressive and
00:20:42
like totally unacceptable in a way that
00:20:45
I don't think society would allow today,
00:20:48
today it's very much more in children's
00:20:50
faces. you know, they can acquire the
00:20:52
information they need. And obviously,
00:20:54
when you're young, you're curious.
00:20:56
>> Again, I'm trying to like world build in
00:20:58
my head because I think understanding
00:21:00
that early context helps us understand
00:21:02
everybody. And if that was my early
00:21:04
context, I think you'd be you'd see the
00:21:05
fingerprints on me today,
00:21:08
>> you know?
00:21:08
>> Well, I think we're all, you know, I
00:21:09
think about it with my own children.
00:21:11
like I
00:21:13
I grew up with a lot of privilege and um
00:21:16
and I've lived an extraordinary life and
00:21:20
you know I never worried where my next
00:21:21
meal came from. I never worried about
00:21:23
being able to pay for the best school
00:21:25
that I was able to get into. And so by
00:21:29
so many metrics my life was extremely
00:21:32
comfortable and easy. And I do think
00:21:35
back like some of the challenges the the
00:21:38
moments that were disgusting or
00:21:41
uncomfortable or you know even just the
00:21:43
fact of um my parents' marriage being to
00:21:47
torn apart.
00:21:49
I think those create the pressure that
00:21:52
turns you into who you become.
00:21:54
>> Did you know what it meant at 9 years
00:21:57
old? Cuz I again I transport myself
00:21:59
back.
00:22:00
>> I probably then you couldn't look things
00:22:02
up as easily. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:22:05
Newspaper,
00:22:06
>> you know, I I don't know what I thought.
00:22:08
I I think I was probably more scared
00:22:09
than anything of like the mob and the
00:22:11
lights and um the surprise of it all. Um
00:22:14
>> do you know what them separating me?
00:22:16
Like did they have a conversation with
00:22:17
you and say, you know, we're we're
00:22:18
splitting up or was it
00:22:19
>> They did. And I think the experience I
00:22:21
had, albeit
00:22:23
it was televised. Um, but it was very
00:22:26
much like any other child who's dying
00:22:29
whose parents are separating. You start
00:22:30
to wonder,
00:22:32
you know, will I be loved? Will I be
00:22:35
forgotten? What does this mean? Um, you
00:22:38
want them to get back together. You're
00:22:39
hoping. You're trying to create peace
00:22:43
between them. Um, rekindle the love. All
00:22:46
the things that I think are like deeply
00:22:49
normal and and human. And you found out
00:22:52
about the divorce by seeing a newspaper
00:22:54
on your way to school one day.
00:22:57
>> Um, yes.
00:23:00
That wasn't the plan. Um, they used to
00:23:02
have uh the big news boxes with the
00:23:05
newspaper. So,
00:23:06
>> what did it say?
00:23:07
>> My parents had sat me down that
00:23:08
afternoon. That's when they had intended
00:23:09
to, but it had it had come out in the
00:23:11
morning.
00:23:12
>> What did the newspaper say?
00:23:13
>> I don't remember. I remember the photo.
00:23:15
There was a picture of them with a rip
00:23:17
down the middle. It was not an easy
00:23:19
situation for a child. But um that
00:23:22
experience I always look for like what
00:23:25
is the positive in any situation and you
00:23:27
know the positive for me and my siblings
00:23:30
were we really like bonded in a
00:23:33
different type of way because we were
00:23:34
going through it together.
00:23:36
>> It must be so interesting being in your
00:23:38
shoes because you look me and you're
00:23:40
both aware that people they want to
00:23:42
drive a a wedge between you and your
00:23:44
father. They want a headline. They want
00:23:46
you to say something. I can see it
00:23:47
within you that you have a real desire
00:23:48
to be like open and transparent, but if
00:23:50
I was in your shoes, I'd be thinking
00:23:53
like everyone's trying to trip me out.
00:23:55
Everyone's trying to make a headline um
00:23:56
on on me and my life. They want to drive
00:23:58
a wedge between me and my father. It's
00:24:01
difficult. It must be difficult. Like
00:24:02
even I think about it as a podcast. The
00:24:04
podcast, you know, the podcast gets big.
00:24:05
I say the wrong line,
00:24:08
>> you know. You know, I think one of the
00:24:10
things I've learned under moments in my
00:24:13
life of tremendous sort of pressure and
00:24:15
scrutiny is um to like find the signal
00:24:19
in the noise. And that's probably the
00:24:22
thing that has been most helpful to me.
00:24:25
It can become quite turbulent. I find
00:24:27
myself sometimes literally like dancing
00:24:29
in the eye of the hurricane. It's been
00:24:31
many years of my life, but there's a lot
00:24:33
of like peace within me. So I just don't
00:24:36
get distracted by by the outside noise
00:24:39
and um and I think if you know what you
00:24:41
stand for then it really is just noise.
00:24:44
>> When did you have to learn this? Because
00:24:46
am I right in thinking you this is the
00:24:48
first time that I saw the Trump family
00:24:50
during the apprentice. So obviously you
00:24:52
know growing up as a kid big fan of
00:24:53
business we had the UK apprentice but
00:24:55
the US one was much more interesting in
00:24:57
my in my opinion.
00:24:58
>> So this is when I first understand who
00:25:00
your father is and who you are. What was
00:25:04
the sentiment around you as a family at
00:25:06
this point? Because again, people can't
00:25:08
remember
00:25:11
>> pre vortex.
00:25:12
>> It was the biggest show in the world at
00:25:15
one point. Um, it was this massive
00:25:18
phenomenon. you know, he had been very
00:25:21
famous in sort of New York and in real
00:25:23
estate and in business circles, but this
00:25:25
kind of like expanded awareness of him
00:25:29
beyond those New York circles onto
00:25:33
um a global stage. So, there was a lot
00:25:35
of attention and a lot of excitement.
00:25:38
You know, he was very similar to how he
00:25:40
is now. He said exactly what he was
00:25:42
thinking, which could be polarizing at
00:25:44
times, but it's part of what people
00:25:46
loved about him. I think the thing about
00:25:48
my father and my mother is they're like
00:25:49
deeply authentic. So you can disagree,
00:25:53
but there's a certain amount of like
00:25:54
respect for the cander of it. Um, and
00:25:57
the lack of fear to say what you're
00:25:59
thinking because so many people are sort
00:26:01
of afraid to be them true, their true
00:26:04
selves.
00:26:05
>> You're more delicate with your words.
00:26:07
>> Yeah, but I know exactly who I am.
00:26:09
That's why the noise doesn't affect me.
00:26:11
I'm really proud of the fact that, you
00:26:13
know, I've lived through some incredibly
00:26:15
intense times where people are taking
00:26:17
cheap shots and swinging and I don't
00:26:20
punch back because I don't
00:26:23
believe in
00:26:25
sort of spending my time and focus like
00:26:29
being combative like jumping into that
00:26:32
particular arena and like the nasty
00:26:34
swirl of social media. It's just it's
00:26:36
not for me and I've been consistent in
00:26:38
that my whole life and I feel like that
00:26:40
sets an amazing example to my children.
00:26:42
>> Where did you learn that? What is it
00:26:43
that you've read? What are the sort of
00:26:45
>> you just have to be yourself and you
00:26:46
have to be true to yourself and like I
00:26:48
don't allow that noise to distract me.
00:26:50
We were talking um earlier about
00:26:53
stoicism. I think like Marcus Aurelius's
00:26:55
meditations is so informative on so many
00:26:58
levels. I mean here you have somebody
00:26:59
who was literally an emperor and he's
00:27:02
writing this journal in a tent in a
00:27:04
battlefield. So his perspective is
00:27:08
amazing and he once wrote that the soul
00:27:11
becomes dyed the color of its thoughts
00:27:14
and I think about that all the time. The
00:27:16
cost to me of living in a way that's
00:27:20
inconsistent and not aligned with what
00:27:24
feels right, what models the right thing
00:27:26
for my children, what feels inherently
00:27:29
true to me. It's too expensive. it's too
00:27:33
expensive for for my soul, so I won't do
00:27:35
it. So, you know, there there have been
00:27:38
times when the incoming and I say, well,
00:27:39
but that isn't right or this isn't right
00:27:41
or I want to correct it. And then I say
00:27:43
like, what's the cost of doing it? Theo
00:27:46
has another great quote. It's something
00:27:48
paraphrasing to the effect of, you know,
00:27:50
the cost of anything is the amount of
00:27:52
your life you're willing to exchange for
00:27:53
it. I focus on those things that like
00:27:56
elevate my soul, um my my joy, my
00:28:00
happiness, my connection to the people I
00:28:02
love and care about.
00:28:04
>> Have you always been there? Because you
00:28:06
seem more stoic now, but you know,
00:28:08
>> I have like I'm much more naturally like
00:28:10
this. Like I feel things like a lot of
00:28:13
things.
00:28:14
>> You're a bit of an empath, right?
00:28:15
>> Oh, for sure.
00:28:16
>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:28:16
>> Uh so I have not always been like this.
00:28:19
It's like I had to work to be like this
00:28:21
and I had to I think mature and I had to
00:28:24
gain like confidence and it took me a
00:28:26
while to really let people in. And I
00:28:28
think it was after my children were born
00:28:30
that I really experienced a different
00:28:33
type of love. It like cracks you open
00:28:36
and you're never the same, you know, and
00:28:38
and you want more of that feeling. Like
00:28:40
I I'm very intentional about everything
00:28:43
that I do. even sitting here today like
00:28:46
I I have zero interest in spending two
00:28:48
hours having a conversation with
00:28:49
somebody I think is like a bully um
00:28:51
because they get good podcast you know
00:28:53
like I I like having conversations with
00:28:55
people I think are interesting and
00:28:57
curious but in business as well like I'm
00:29:00
I'm you know I do less things and I do
00:29:02
them with a lot more focus and
00:29:05
intention. You've lived an extraordinary
00:29:07
life and it's a very anomalous one. But
00:29:09
actually the lesson there about being
00:29:11
intentional
00:29:13
in every sense of the word, not just
00:29:15
with what you do every day, but also
00:29:16
what you let occupy your mind is one
00:29:18
that I think everybody listening
00:29:21
>> might derive a lot of value from because
00:29:23
we live everybody lives on a spectrum of
00:29:25
the world clawing at them
00:29:27
>> to deviate from who they are. um some
00:29:30
you know one end of the spectrum if I
00:29:31
take myself back to when I was I don't
00:29:32
know 16 years old the world you know
00:29:34
other than my mother telling me she
00:29:35
wanted me to go be doctor lawyer
00:29:36
whatever the world wasn't really pulling
00:29:38
me away from myself but then on the
00:29:40
other end of the spectrum you know I'm
00:29:42
33 now you know every time I have a
00:29:45
podcast guest on someone's mad at me
00:29:47
>> and everything I say can be spun in
00:29:49
whatever so you also on this side of the
00:29:51
spectrum you have to get really really
00:29:53
clear as you said on like who you are
00:29:54
and what matters
00:29:55
>> well I think that's key like if if you
00:29:58
don't know who you are the mob wins.
00:30:00
>> Oh, 100%.
00:30:01
>> Because they tell you who you are and
00:30:02
then you start to believe it.
00:30:04
>> Once you know who you are,
00:30:06
>> you feel sorry for the people who are
00:30:09
like screaming at each other on on
00:30:11
social media. It takes like a beat to
00:30:14
get there. Like I think it it takes a
00:30:16
lot of work to to really understand
00:30:18
yourself. And I think sometimes
00:30:21
modern society it praises sort of speed
00:30:26
and fast pace and um you know
00:30:28
accessibility and being available and
00:30:31
responding quickly then people wonder
00:30:33
like why don't they know themselves like
00:30:35
why aren't they connected to something
00:30:37
bigger and they're not taking the time.
00:30:39
I take time to shut down and like really
00:30:42
go inward and ask myself every time I
00:30:44
have a big decision like what feels
00:30:46
right and even if it's hard to make a
00:30:48
decision like whether it's a no or a yes
00:30:51
if it feels aligned with your values and
00:30:54
who you are like it never is a mistake
00:30:57
ever.
00:30:57
>> You grew up in the uh you know with a
00:31:00
with a family and a father that are very
00:31:03
prominent. at some point do you have to
00:31:05
make the decision to become your own
00:31:07
person like because I was wondering if
00:31:09
in that context you there's a there's a
00:31:12
pressure to kind of like be the same
00:31:13
person in every regard
00:31:15
>> to believe all the same things to live
00:31:16
the same life to go the same path
00:31:18
>> is there some point in your journey
00:31:19
where you where you go do you know what
00:31:20
I've actually got to like figure out I
00:31:22
can see a little smirk in the corner of
00:31:24
your mouth
00:31:24
>> well no I think about it with my own
00:31:26
children because as a parent it's very
00:31:28
easy to see them as
00:31:31
you know a lot of parents they they view
00:31:33
their children as extens ions of
00:31:34
themselves and I really try not to do
00:31:36
that. Like they are their own people
00:31:38
just like I'm my own person sometimes in
00:31:42
the context of a broader public
00:31:44
narrative.
00:31:46
Everything's sort of comingled and
00:31:47
related. But we're all our own people.
00:31:49
We obviously have conditioning. We have
00:31:52
learned behaviors. We have um some of
00:31:55
which are great. Some of which we spend
00:31:57
part of our adulthood um unwinding.
00:32:02
But we're all like fundamentally unique
00:32:05
and special. And I work really hard to
00:32:07
make sure my kids see themselves, each
00:32:10
of them individually, that they know how
00:32:12
much I love them as like perfect,
00:32:15
complete human beings, not I love you
00:32:18
because of this accomplishment or
00:32:21
because of this sort of external
00:32:22
validation that you've received because
00:32:25
you're sort of perfect as as you are and
00:32:28
like in your essence. So, so my parents
00:32:31
taught me a lot a lot. I love them so
00:32:34
much. I'm like them in some ways. I'm
00:32:36
very dissimilar to them in other ways.
00:32:38
But even though I was like the
00:32:39
peacemaker in our house, I was also like
00:32:41
very like true to myself. And they
00:32:44
created and I give them credit for this,
00:32:46
they created an environment where like
00:32:47
disscent was okay. And so I could agree
00:32:51
or disagree and share it with each of
00:32:53
them and um do so respectfully and and
00:32:56
privately. and that was our home.
00:33:00
>> Um, you started off in real estate. You
00:33:03
you worked in a It sounded like to me
00:33:05
you were basically an intern at a a a
00:33:07
different real estate company before
00:33:09
moving into the the family business and
00:33:10
in the family business, you know,
00:33:12
heavily male-dominated space. I heard
00:33:14
you talk about how actually being a
00:33:16
woman in that context proved to be in
00:33:18
your mind an advantage of sorts. What is
00:33:21
the the context there? And I'm in 2026
00:33:23
right now, so I don't have the
00:33:25
perspective of what it was like to be a
00:33:26
young woman in the real estate industry,
00:33:28
presuming in New York. Yeah.
00:33:30
>> Some sort of 20 years ago.
00:33:32
>> Well, I think I was like underestimated
00:33:34
twice. First, being the child of
00:33:36
accomplished parents. There was an
00:33:38
expectation that I on one hand some
00:33:42
people thought I was like a savant
00:33:44
because I was their child but most
00:33:46
people
00:33:48
thought they would be um that I would
00:33:50
phone it in that I would lack sort of
00:33:52
the thought process, the ambition, the
00:33:55
preparedness. So, I I always worked like
00:33:58
twice as hard as everyone else to sort
00:34:00
of prove my worth and prove um my
00:34:04
ability to to be in these rooms where
00:34:06
truthfully often times I was in them
00:34:08
before I was prepared to be in them. So,
00:34:10
that was, you know, on my mind. But I
00:34:13
think being underestimated is is not a
00:34:15
bad thing. I think it's like a very
00:34:17
powerful thing actually. And it almost
00:34:21
always worked to the detriment of the
00:34:23
person who underestimated me. So, I
00:34:25
think if you're somebody who's prepared
00:34:27
and somebody underestimates you, well,
00:34:29
guess what? They're not. So, when you're
00:34:31
dealing with people who are extremely
00:34:32
accomplished, like do the work. Like,
00:34:35
know what you're doing because probably
00:34:36
they haven't done the work when they
00:34:38
know they're dealing with you. And I
00:34:40
think as a young woman in real estate
00:34:44
especially, you know, there were there
00:34:45
were women in sales and there were women
00:34:47
in marketing, but there were very few
00:34:50
women in development and construction
00:34:52
and finance and acquisitions.
00:34:54
And
00:34:56
I think um I harnessed both the belief
00:35:01
some of it may be stemming from my own
00:35:03
insecurity but the belief that the
00:35:05
people would underestimate me. I
00:35:06
harnessed that like sort of fear, that
00:35:09
sentiment and I used it to sort of
00:35:11
propel me and I used it to give me
00:35:14
motivation and and drive and then I also
00:35:18
would use it against the people who
00:35:20
underestimated me just because I I was
00:35:23
always prepared. I was overprepared. I I
00:35:25
always did the work. I heard you
00:35:27
described as um from people that worked
00:35:29
with you at the time a naturalb born
00:35:32
deal maker. And this kind of overlays
00:35:34
with what you're saying there that if
00:35:35
someone underestimates you, they're
00:35:38
actually setting themselves up to be
00:35:41
surprised or
00:35:42
>> Well, I'd prefer to be underestimated
00:35:44
than overestimated any day of the week.
00:35:46
>> Give me specifics on what what
00:35:47
environment that creates for you to then
00:35:49
win in a deal. I think in in negotiation
00:35:52
it's like incredibly important to
00:35:56
know what the other person wants.
00:35:58
Sometimes you can learn that through
00:36:00
research. Very infrequently though, like
00:36:03
you have to listen. Like you're probably
00:36:05
a great negotiator because you're an
00:36:06
incredible listener. Silence can also be
00:36:09
a weapon. People get very uncomfortable
00:36:11
in moments of silence and then they
00:36:13
start talking. And I think the more you
00:36:15
can get a person to share with you
00:36:19
what they consider to be a win, the more
00:36:22
you can potentially accomplish something
00:36:24
where you give
00:36:27
where you really have like a mutual
00:36:29
win-win. Like I've seen negotiations
00:36:30
where you give up very little, but the
00:36:32
person feels incredibly happy because
00:36:34
it's what they wanted.
00:36:35
>> Yeah.
00:36:35
>> Right. Now, when you're dealing with
00:36:37
like a negotiation that's purely price,
00:36:39
that's kind of different. That's like a
00:36:40
very simple transaction. It's, you know,
00:36:43
but very few negotiations are purely
00:36:45
that, you know, one of first and
00:36:48
foremost in a negotiation like like make
00:36:51
sure you understand what the other
00:36:52
person wants because you may be able to
00:36:54
give it to them at at very little cost
00:36:56
and then everyone's happy. And I also
00:36:58
think there's a lot of value in like
00:37:02
authentically building relationships.
00:37:04
though, you know, some of the the best
00:37:06
deals I ever did were uh derivatives of
00:37:11
really like getting to know someone like
00:37:12
authentically and genuinely. And um they
00:37:15
want you to win, you want them to win.
00:37:17
And those are are like really beautiful
00:37:19
types of transactions. And you know, I
00:37:22
believe in you know, a lot of the
00:37:23
projects I'm working on now are about
00:37:24
like creating things. Like I like
00:37:27
building tangible things. I like
00:37:28
creating things that um that uplift. to
00:37:32
like solving challenging problems and um
00:37:37
and you don't do that alone. You do that
00:37:40
through partnership. You do that through
00:37:43
coalitions of people who share your
00:37:46
passion and interest and um and that's
00:37:49
very rewarding.
00:37:50
>> When you hire people, what are you
00:37:51
looking for for your businesses? Are
00:37:53
there I mean, everyone's got their own
00:37:54
hiring bias and it often stems from
00:37:56
their past experiences who's burnt them
00:37:57
in the past. when you're looking to hire
00:38:00
someone for one of your organizations or
00:38:01
for some of the projects we'll talk
00:38:02
about in a second, what what are the
00:38:04
like the key characteristics?
00:38:06
>> I think first and foremost, you want
00:38:07
someone with a strong sense of self and
00:38:11
a strong like orientation towards like
00:38:13
agency, like somebody who has agency.
00:38:16
It's very hard to teach people, you
00:38:18
know, you could have a brilliant person,
00:38:20
but if they don't have like good
00:38:21
judgment or if they're not like a
00:38:23
self-starter, it's very hard to give
00:38:26
them that. It's very hard to sort of
00:38:27
give them good judgment. And some of
00:38:29
it's like street smarts, right? We
00:38:31
talked before about, you know, how can
00:38:33
you both be trustworthy
00:38:35
and not be disappointed or burn too
00:38:37
often? You have an instinct about a
00:38:39
person
00:38:40
>> and you can read a room and and that's
00:38:42
like EQ skills and those are those are a
00:38:45
little bit harder to teach. So, I look
00:38:46
for that.
00:38:47
>> I look for good people at the end of the
00:38:49
day. like I don't want to do a deal with
00:38:53
I don't want to work with people I don't
00:38:55
enjoy that I don't think are like good
00:38:57
people um because I don't want to spend
00:38:59
my time with somebody who I don't trust
00:39:02
or who I don't respect. So that's like
00:39:04
really core and fundamental for me. you
00:39:07
know, for somebody who's working with
00:39:10
me, I actually tell my kids this all the
00:39:12
time because I think so much of the
00:39:14
outside world is like, "Impress me by
00:39:17
what you do." Like, "Impress me by what
00:39:18
you accomplish. The grades, the
00:39:20
trophies, the the badges of like
00:39:24
external validation and success." Like,
00:39:26
our whole life is oriented towards that,
00:39:29
the validation that comes from the
00:39:32
outside world. So like I always want my
00:39:34
kids to know like how I'm going to
00:39:35
validate them is like be a good person.
00:39:37
Like you want to impress me like be a
00:39:39
good person.
00:39:39
>> Was that the case for you? Cuz when I
00:39:41
look at
00:39:42
>> Probably not.
00:39:42
>> I look at the Trump family for me as an
00:39:45
outsider looked like a competition
00:39:47
between siblings and even when I think
00:39:49
about your father
00:39:49
>> I think because we're so competitive and
00:39:52
hard. Yeah. No, I think um I think it
00:39:56
all like worked out and we're all I I
00:39:58
like to think you know my my siblings
00:40:01
and I grew up with um like good values
00:40:05
and uh but no like we were in a more
00:40:08
like I was like very competitive with my
00:40:10
siblings like you know my mom was like a
00:40:13
disciplinarian there was like a high
00:40:15
expectation of like performance and
00:40:17
success um
00:40:18
>> and when you're in that when you're
00:40:19
calling collect your father he's
00:40:21
reciting your great grades to the room
00:40:23
of people He's in. No, no, no. That was
00:40:27
>> That mattered. And And it matters to a
00:40:30
lot of parents. And by the way, it's not
00:40:31
bad like having an incredibly high
00:40:34
standard. And to some degree,
00:40:36
>> Yeah. And I think look, I I think it's
00:40:38
>> a lot of parents like I think especially
00:40:41
like my mom was an immigrant to this
00:40:42
country, there's like a high standard.
00:40:44
Um and uh and she didn't like humor
00:40:48
fools, right? One of the things I'm most
00:40:50
proud of, I look at my daughter and
00:40:52
there's no bar I could set for her that
00:40:54
the bar she sets for herself isn't
00:40:56
higher. So like I actually view my job
00:40:59
as a parent with her is to like give her
00:41:01
permission to not like strive for
00:41:04
perfection.
00:41:06
>> You go on to build a business in the
00:41:09
jewelry industry and fashion industry.
00:41:13
Um there was I was reading about there
00:41:14
was a point in your career where you
00:41:16
were you were offered a job by Anna
00:41:17
Wintor. Yeah.
00:41:18
>> At Vogue. And your I think your father
00:41:20
did kind of want you to go in that
00:41:21
direction, but you wanted to go in the
00:41:22
real estate business direction.
00:41:24
>> She called me actually on the day I
00:41:25
graduated from university. I went to
00:41:28
Warden School of Business at University
00:41:30
of Pennsylvania and she offered me a job
00:41:33
at Vogue and I was like incredibly
00:41:35
honored and flattered and groggy because
00:41:38
she called me at 8:00 in the morning
00:41:40
which calling a college student at 8:00
00:41:41
in the morning, you might as well call
00:41:42
them at 4:30 in the morning, you know?
00:41:44
like that was that I was like deeply
00:41:47
aware from when I was a young girl that
00:41:49
like I wanted to go into real estate.
00:41:51
Life has taken me in different
00:41:53
directions and and interestingly now I'm
00:41:55
returning with some amazing projects
00:41:57
back to my real estate roots. But I love
00:42:01
architecture. I love design. I love it
00:42:04
as an expression of self. If you look at
00:42:07
a city skyline and it's an expression of
00:42:10
like a vision for
00:42:13
um of hope and optimism and the amount
00:42:16
of courage that took to build each of
00:42:18
those buildings and it's it's
00:42:19
extraordinary.
00:42:20
>> But you did go into the fine jewelry at
00:42:22
26 years old and then at 33 you launched
00:42:24
Ivanka Trump.com and you were in a huge
00:42:28
amount of major retailers including
00:42:29
Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and that's
00:42:32
really also that's what I knew you first
00:42:34
for. I knew you for running a fashion
00:42:37
business which was doing exceptionally
00:42:40
well. I think from what I read it was
00:42:41
making hundreds of millions of dollars
00:42:44
and then you shut it down.
00:42:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of like
00:42:48
lightning in a a bottle. I caught a
00:42:50
moment. So, I was um still sort of
00:42:53
leading the charge at our family real
00:42:54
estate business. I had young children at
00:42:57
home um or was just starting to have uh
00:43:00
children when when I first launched Fine
00:43:02
Jewelry. Ultimately, we ended up having
00:43:04
11 different categories, apparel,
00:43:06
footwear, sunglasses, fragrance. Um,
00:43:11
but we created an accessibly priced line
00:43:15
that was feminine and beautiful, but for
00:43:18
like a multi-dimensional woman. Like, at
00:43:21
the time when I was coming up, the
00:43:24
outfits that women were buying for work
00:43:26
were so far from aspirational and they
00:43:29
couldn't transition with the woman to
00:43:31
the date night. they would have that
00:43:32
evening or after work drinks with their
00:43:35
girlfriends. It was like nobody was
00:43:38
posting on Instagram like what they were
00:43:40
wearing to work. And so we thought like
00:43:42
let's bridge the gap and create
00:43:43
something for a modern woman. And it
00:43:46
caught fire. And it was
00:43:48
>> how big an amazing success. We were
00:43:50
doing um close to $800 million in sales
00:43:53
annually um when I shut it down when I
00:43:55
went into government. It was great. But
00:43:58
>> you were doing 800 million in sales
00:44:00
annually when you shut it down.
00:44:02
>> Yeah.
00:44:02
>> Why did you shut it down?
00:44:04
>> I went into government and you always
00:44:05
have to sort of be moving forward and I
00:44:07
had built a team of women who were
00:44:10
oriented towards forward momentum and I
00:44:14
had to put it on ice and this was all
00:44:16
just part of the rules of complying with
00:44:17
the office of government and ethics. So
00:44:19
they basically look at everything you
00:44:20
have and they say sell this, put this
00:44:22
into a trust, do this, do that, do this.
00:44:24
So you do that and and for my own
00:44:27
business, they weren't allowed to use my
00:44:28
image. They weren't allowed to grow the
00:44:30
business in terms of new accounts or
00:44:32
internationally. And that was fine for a
00:44:35
moment, but at the end of the day, you
00:44:37
need like growth. And so I thought it
00:44:39
would be easier to end on a high note
00:44:41
than to um allow the business to sort of
00:44:44
stagnate. And I also felt like for
00:44:47
myself, I'm always looking forward like
00:44:49
I don't like to look back. And I feel
00:44:51
the
00:44:53
experience of of this new experience, I
00:44:56
mean, serving was so expanding.
00:45:00
>> Most people wouldn't give up an $800
00:45:01
million annual business to go into
00:45:05
government.
00:45:06
>> Why did you,
00:45:08
>> you know, I I
00:45:09
>> It's your baby as well. You know, it's
00:45:10
like
00:45:11
>> Yeah. I, you know, I thought about the
00:45:13
version of me in 40 years that when
00:45:17
asked the question to serve by my
00:45:20
father, who at the time knew no one in
00:45:22
in Washington DC at all, said no and
00:45:26
just proceeded with life as usual. And
00:45:29
that didn't like sit right with me. So,
00:45:30
I had no intention of serving. And a few
00:45:33
weeks after he won, he asked Jared and
00:45:37
me to go with him and sort of help him
00:45:40
navigate this new environment. And my
00:45:42
eyes grew big. And he joked with me.
00:45:45
He's like, "But I have to warn you,
00:45:46
they're going to come at you hard.
00:45:48
They're probably going to hate you.
00:45:49
You're too young. You're too." And he
00:45:50
like, I'm like, "Oh my god." I'm like,
00:45:53
"What?" That was like the anti- sale.
00:45:55
But, you know, he asked us for help. Um,
00:45:58
and I feel incredibly
00:46:00
privileged that he gave us the
00:46:02
opportunity to serve a country we love
00:46:04
so much. We hadn't been expecting it. We
00:46:06
hadn't set up our lives for it. We were
00:46:08
loving the path we were on and and the
00:46:12
work we were doing. But you also, you
00:46:14
know, can't put your head in the sand
00:46:16
and like life had changed. As much as
00:46:18
I'd like to say like, oh, he wins
00:46:20
business as usual, there is no business
00:46:22
as usual. Your life has changed.
00:46:23
>> You didn't choose this though. In fact,
00:46:25
you didn't choose most of these things.
00:46:26
I look at your life and I go that from a
00:46:29
very young age you've not chosen the
00:46:31
context which you've been thrust into
00:46:33
because of your your father's ambitions
00:46:36
and I mean I can see it in your face
00:46:38
that it kind of rings true
00:46:40
>> but I think that's true for all of us
00:46:41
right to some degree like our path is
00:46:44
determined by our circumstance I
00:46:46
>> not really not really in the same way
00:46:48
>> this is a little bit different with
00:46:51
politics and the presidency but
00:46:53
>> but even from 9 years old you know
00:46:54
you're not choosing to leave school and
00:46:56
have reporters uh treat you like that
00:46:58
and you're not choosing these other
00:47:00
things along the way and then your
00:47:01
father decides he wants to be president
00:47:03
of the United States. It's not like he
00:47:04
had a political career where he like
00:47:05
built up slowly. It's like he woke up
00:47:07
one day and was like
00:47:08
>> was drinking water from a fire hose for
00:47:09
all of us. It was a lot. Normally you
00:47:11
cut your teeth on, you know, some local
00:47:14
election as a family have the
00:47:16
experience.
00:47:18
The first time he ever run for office
00:47:20
was president and he won. So, it was a
00:47:22
radical adjustment period for um for all
00:47:26
of us. But
00:47:27
>> did you think you would
00:47:27
>> Boy did it. Oh, yeah. I did.
00:47:31
>> I mean, it was it was hard to believe
00:47:33
myself because everyone was saying that
00:47:35
he wouldn't. And I'd say, "Well, these
00:47:37
people probably know what they're
00:47:38
talking about, but it felt like he
00:47:40
would." And, you know, so for me, that
00:47:43
time was extraordinary because I really
00:47:46
believed, you know, I lived in New York
00:47:47
City. I thought I was around surrounded
00:47:50
by diverse minds and opinions and
00:47:53
perspectives and viewpoints and I really
00:47:56
thought I had sort of a lot of exposure
00:47:59
to ideas and
00:48:01
his campaign like ripped it open for me
00:48:04
and that I realized like the bubble that
00:48:06
I was in and suddenly I got out into the
00:48:08
country and I heard from people who had
00:48:11
very divergent views on a number of
00:48:12
issues. Some of it reinforced my
00:48:15
existing beliefs. Other times it
00:48:17
completely changed my perspective and
00:48:20
and orientation. So it was extremely
00:48:24
mindexpanding. So when you ask like,
00:48:26
"Oh, why didn't I go back to what I was
00:48:28
doing?" I think like, you know, you you
00:48:30
get thrown into something and you learn
00:48:33
and you grow and you change. And um and
00:48:36
I felt as challenging it was as that
00:48:40
moment in my life to um to say yes when
00:48:44
when my father asked us to to go help
00:48:47
him. I felt like it was an amazing
00:48:50
privilege to be able to serve. So new
00:48:54
year always has a strange energy to it
00:48:56
because people start talking about their
00:48:57
goals, fresh starts and new habits. But
00:48:59
the reality is that most people carry
00:49:00
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00:49:03
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00:49:04
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00:49:06
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I'll see you over there. I watched
00:50:56
interviews going back to the 1980s where
00:50:57
it sounded like your father was playing
00:50:59
with the idea. I remember that Oprah
00:51:01
interview that's subsequently gone viral
00:51:03
of him saying that um if it got so bad
00:51:05
in the US he would never rule it out
00:51:07
totally. He thought he would win because
00:51:10
he's never gone into anything to lose as
00:51:12
I think you said and even 1980 in an
00:51:16
interview with Rona Beret can't
00:51:18
pronounce that name he said maybe I'd
00:51:20
run for president I don't know. Did you
00:51:23
have any sense that this was at all on
00:51:25
the horizon in
00:51:26
>> Not really.
00:51:27
>> That's interesting.
00:51:28
>> No, it was, you know, it was actually
00:51:31
where we discussed things that weren't
00:51:33
sort of the normal how was your day at
00:51:35
school. It was we spoke a lot about real
00:51:37
estate and about
00:51:39
um and about building and we were going
00:51:42
to go into the family business and and I
00:51:44
do think he sort of toyed with it in his
00:51:46
mind um for a while. I I do remember
00:51:48
once thinking it was real. I was 16 and
00:51:52
I was at boarding school and I called
00:51:53
him up. I go, "Oh my god, I read that
00:51:55
you're going to run for president. This
00:51:56
is going to ruin my life."
00:51:59
I think I was like hysterical and he's
00:52:00
like, "Don't worry about it. Not
00:52:02
happening." You know, I think he was he
00:52:05
was thinking about the options he was
00:52:07
given as a voter and he was dissatisfied
00:52:11
and I think he was beginning to
00:52:13
formulate his perspective on what he
00:52:16
would do differently. But it was not my
00:52:19
childhood that was not an ambition of
00:52:22
his that was at least articulated to to
00:52:24
us. You know some of the ideas you
00:52:26
mentioned that Oprah interview he was
00:52:28
talking about
00:52:30
um trade policy being deeply unfair to
00:52:34
American workers. you know, his
00:52:36
viewpoint remained consistent over time
00:52:39
and remains consistent to this day on
00:52:41
exactly that about trade policy and and
00:52:44
many of many of the things he
00:52:46
articulated then are very true for him
00:52:48
to this day.
00:52:49
>> And then in 2015 when you're 33, my age,
00:52:54
you learn two weeks before he announces
00:52:57
that he's going to announce that he
00:52:58
wants to run for president
00:53:01
>> again. How do you receive that? is in
00:53:03
like an existential panic like you have
00:53:05
>> we came together as a family in
00:53:06
Bedminster. Um and he shared with us his
00:53:10
intention and he asked me to introduce
00:53:12
him and I said to him I'm like well are
00:53:14
you really doing this
00:53:17
um are you really going to do this? He
00:53:19
was coming down the escalator and I'm
00:53:22
trying to like introduce him and give
00:53:23
this speech. I'm like, is he going to
00:53:24
get up here and actually? It was so
00:53:26
quick. But I think, you know, I think he
00:53:28
had debated it in his mind for a long
00:53:30
time and then when he pulled the
00:53:31
trigger, it was
00:53:33
full steam.
00:53:35
>> Life hasn't been the same since in many
00:53:37
respects.
00:53:38
>> Mm- No, it hasn't. But it's been I mean,
00:53:41
it's been an extraordinary ride. There
00:53:43
have been highs and there have been
00:53:44
lows, but um we've done a lot of living.
00:53:47
So,
00:53:48
>> a lot of living.
00:53:49
>> A lot of living.
00:53:50
>> Of which you spent four years working in
00:53:52
the White House.
00:53:52
>> Mhm. Some of your sort of key headline
00:53:54
achievements are doubling the child tax
00:53:56
credit from $1,000 to $2,000, benefiting
00:53:58
40 million Americans with an average of
00:54:01
$2.2,000 $2,000 per year, helping secure
00:54:04
paid family leave for federal workers,
00:54:06
helping pass the Great American Outdoors
00:54:08
Act, which is one of the largest
00:54:10
Conservative bills since the National
00:54:11
Park System was created, leading efforts
00:54:13
to modernize career and technical
00:54:15
education, providing 1.3 billion
00:54:17
annually to over 13 million students,
00:54:20
and helping to pass nine pieces of
00:54:22
legislation combating human trafficking
00:54:23
and child exploitation.
00:54:26
And then it ended.
00:54:28
>> Were you happy it ended? cuz I saw it
00:54:31
with Michelle Obama. She seemed happy.
00:54:34
>> I left it all on the field, you know? I
00:54:36
I don't look back and say
00:54:39
like I I I don't have regrets. Like I
00:54:41
worked as hard as I could and I'm
00:54:43
incredibly
00:54:45
proud of what I was able to accomplish
00:54:48
in in those four years. and um like I
00:54:51
don't regret it in any way, but it's you
00:54:54
know it's a sacrifice um to my children
00:54:57
and it's um and it's it's it's hard work
00:55:01
you know so I feel both incredibly
00:55:04
privileged for the opportunity but also
00:55:07
I don't have what they refer to as PTOIC
00:55:09
fever you know there's some people that
00:55:11
once they have the experience of of
00:55:14
being in those rooms and and close to
00:55:16
that type of power they just like hang
00:55:17
around the hoop constantly like cycling
00:55:20
back in. I feel like I wasn't expecting
00:55:23
to serve in this capacity, at least not
00:55:25
at this stage of my life. My father
00:55:28
asked me to help him. We uprooted our
00:55:32
lives and went and did just that and
00:55:34
scored a lot of wins. I mean, you think
00:55:35
about something like the child tax
00:55:36
credit. 40 million American families
00:55:40
benefited from that policy. An average
00:55:43
of $2,400 in their pockets.
00:55:47
That's extraordinarily meaningful and
00:55:50
consequential and I'm so proud to have
00:55:52
been able to do that. nine pieces of
00:55:55
human trafficking legislation, the work
00:55:58
that I did around vocational education
00:56:00
and skills training, which is all the
00:56:02
more relevant as we sort of surf the
00:56:05
oncoming tsunami that is AI. you know,
00:56:08
the fact that we were able to um get the
00:56:11
private sector to commit to skilling or
00:56:13
res-killing 16 million American workers,
00:56:17
the fact that we were able to facilitate
00:56:19
the creation of a million apprenticeship
00:56:22
opportunities in in the United States,
00:56:24
like these are are deeply meaningful.
00:56:27
So, I
00:56:29
I'm so proud of my service. I I feel
00:56:32
deeply honored that
00:56:35
he trusted me to pursue these different
00:56:39
verticals and and to work alongside of
00:56:42
him. And I also know that it's really
00:56:45
hard and for my children, you know, my
00:56:48
first responsibility is to be their mom.
00:56:50
It was true then as well, of course. And
00:56:52
and I did the best I could every single
00:56:54
day to be everywhere I needed to be. But
00:56:58
my kids are a different age now and
00:57:00
there's a finite period of time before
00:57:02
they leave our home. I think, you know,
00:57:05
I look at at my teenage daughter, she's
00:57:07
14 and even if like a quarter of my
00:57:12
interactions with her through her closed
00:57:13
bedroom door, like I need to be present
00:57:15
and I need to be there. It's not
00:57:17
theoretical for me because now I know
00:57:20
the sacrifice
00:57:22
that they would have to bear the cost to
00:57:25
them of if I went back into service and
00:57:29
I'm not willing to let them pay that
00:57:31
price. So for me it's like actually a
00:57:33
rather easy decision. I made it
00:57:35
immediately. You know that in this
00:57:37
moment I'm where I need to be. It's also
00:57:39
a different time. You know, now my
00:57:41
father has a deep bench of people
00:57:43
raising their hand who want to help and
00:57:45
participate. That wasn't true before.
00:57:49
He's really refined his policies, his
00:57:51
beliefs, and has a lot of conviction in
00:57:55
terms of what he wants to do. So, so I
00:57:57
feel like for him, it's amazing. He's
00:57:59
got the team he needs and um and for me,
00:58:02
I think, you know, my priorities are are
00:58:04
my family, and that just feels really
00:58:06
good and right for me.
00:58:08
>> What weren't you prepared for? I asked
00:58:10
the same question to Michelle when she
00:58:11
was here about, you know, you get that
00:58:13
phone call from your dad and he says,
00:58:14
"Come, come help. One has a vision of
00:58:17
what that might look like, but there's
00:58:19
surprises." Michelle talked to me about
00:58:20
so many of the things she had no idea
00:58:22
would be the case.
00:58:23
>> I wasn't prepared for you're not
00:58:25
prepared for any of it. There's nothing
00:58:26
that trains you for the experience. And
00:58:30
I think one of the things you realize
00:58:31
pretty quickly is like power, just like
00:58:33
money, makes people more of what they
00:58:35
already are. And you see that very much
00:58:38
in playing out in in politics and and in
00:58:41
life, right? I also think you realize
00:58:44
people are just people. Like you look at
00:58:47
and I'm you know I had exposure to some
00:58:50
of the great leaders of business and now
00:58:51
I was being exposed to um to leaders on
00:58:56
a global stage of countries. Um,
00:58:58
sometimes they were monarchies, other
00:59:00
times they were elected democracies and
00:59:02
then all sorts of varants of of that,
00:59:05
you know, were and and you realize at
00:59:08
the end of the day like people are
00:59:10
people, you know, some of them their
00:59:12
their kids don't speak to them. They got
00:59:14
in a fight with their wife that morning.
00:59:16
They're, you know, they're just people.
00:59:18
And now some of them feel
00:59:20
extraordinarily historic. You meet a
00:59:23
person and say, "This person feels
00:59:24
consequential." others of them you leave
00:59:27
and say, "I wonder how this person ever
00:59:29
got elected to to this, you know, high
00:59:32
office." But, um, but I think it it
00:59:35
removes the veil and and the mystery and
00:59:38
I think it removed for me a lot of any
00:59:41
of like intimidation I may have in like
00:59:43
interacting with another human being.
00:59:45
>> Your security situation must have
00:59:46
changed quite considerably. So,
00:59:47
>> it did. Yeah.
00:59:48
>> You know, and because politics is a
00:59:50
dangerous game. I think I I heard
00:59:52
something that said being president is
00:59:54
the most dangerous job in the world when
00:59:55
you look at the fatality rate and
00:59:57
obviously we've seen political
00:59:58
assassinations in this country even in
01:00:00
recent times but your father was also
01:00:02
shot at hit in the ear when he was on
01:00:04
the campaign trail more recently.
01:00:07
What's that been like and what does it
01:00:08
actually can you give me any specifics
01:00:10
on what that actually like means when
01:00:12
you become involved in politics? How
01:00:15
does life change from a security
01:00:16
perspective?
01:00:18
Yeah,
01:00:19
I think
01:00:21
well it changes radically. Now we're
01:00:23
protected by US Secret Service and I'm
01:00:26
so grateful to to the men and women who
01:00:29
who take care of my family um took care
01:00:31
of my father, protected him and uh
01:00:34
risking their own lives to do so and now
01:00:36
do so for for me and and my children. So
01:00:39
very grateful uh to all of them. But
01:00:43
it's it's it's scary. We live in um very
01:00:47
troubling times and like you know the
01:00:49
fact that there is a correlation between
01:00:53
service and violence is um
01:00:57
is uh terrible in and of itself. But but
01:01:00
that's the the world we live in. So, you
01:01:02
know, I have to acknowledge that reality
01:01:04
and defend my family as as best I can
01:01:07
and make sure they're protected. And I'm
01:01:09
very fortunate. The the Secret Service
01:01:11
are the best in the world at doing that.
01:01:13
Where were you in 2024 in July when you
01:01:16
when you heard the news that your father
01:01:18
had been shot in the ear? There was an
01:01:21
assassination attempt on his life. Do
01:01:23
you remember where you were? Like what's
01:01:24
that like as as a daughter? What are all
01:01:26
the feelings and thoughts?
01:01:29
>> I was in Bedminster, New Jersey, and um
01:01:34
there was a lot of commotion and um the
01:01:37
televisions were on so I saw it almost
01:01:39
immediately. Not in my house. I actually
01:01:42
don't love watching television.
01:01:45
Um but out by the pool in the beastro
01:01:48
and um it was almost real time. It was
01:01:51
before he had stood back up
01:01:56
that I had seen um what was transpiring
01:01:59
and um two of my children were there. Um
01:02:02
so you know my first reaction was to
01:02:05
turn them away. Um,
01:02:08
but
01:02:10
it was incredibly difficult.
01:02:13
Interestingly, I knew real time in that
01:02:16
moment that he was fine. Like, I had I
01:02:20
just knew that
01:02:24
like it wasn't his time. So, I was
01:02:28
horrified and I was scared and I was
01:02:31
protective of my children, but I also
01:02:35
I didn't believe like the worst possible
01:02:37
outcome had transpired. Thank God. And
01:02:40
um and thank God it it hadn't.
01:02:46
And then I saw him that night when he
01:02:48
came home from the hospital because he
01:02:49
was also staying. That morning he had
01:02:51
left from Bedminster. And that evening
01:02:54
he he returned after he left the
01:02:56
hospital and um it's late 1 2:00 in the
01:03:00
morning and Jared and I stayed up and we
01:03:03
met his his car as he was pulling in and
01:03:05
um I just feel
01:03:09
feel like just incredibly lucky that he
01:03:12
was protected on that day. But it's, you
01:03:15
know, when
01:03:20
you can't take things for granted in
01:03:22
life, and I've learned that in numerous
01:03:24
ways, that being one of them. Um, when
01:03:27
my mom passed prematurely,
01:03:29
when my husband had a scare with cancer,
01:03:32
you know, all of these challenges that
01:03:35
remind you how finite and how precious
01:03:39
every moment of this life we live are.
01:03:44
make you realize you just can't take
01:03:46
anything for granted. And I think as you
01:03:49
move through them and you know, God
01:03:51
willing, you're able to. And we were so
01:03:54
fortunate that day that
01:03:57
that this was a failed attempt to take
01:03:59
his life. Um, not a realized one. But
01:04:03
you just I think you you recommmit
01:04:07
to sort of love and connection and to
01:04:12
a recognition of um how short our time
01:04:16
here on earth is and how you have to
01:04:18
value it.
01:04:20
>> Someone shooting at your dad um and
01:04:21
trying to kill your dad. This is quite a
01:04:23
difficult question to ask, but it's like
01:04:25
if if um most of us will never be able
01:04:28
to relate to the fact that
01:04:31
members of the public want our parents
01:04:34
to be deceased and that's the reality of
01:04:37
the the situation for your father is
01:04:39
someone shot at him was trying to
01:04:41
execute him publicly. And um I wonder
01:04:45
how that again doesn't make you negative
01:04:49
to the world
01:04:50
>> because I don't allow it to.
01:04:53
What does that accomplish being negative
01:04:55
towards the world? I think that brings
01:04:59
more negativity into the world. Even for
01:05:01
the person that shot at your father,
01:05:06
>> there's a lot of sickness there. And
01:05:15
I,
01:05:17
you know, I think that
01:05:23
forgiveness is a difficult thing in in
01:05:25
this regard, but I think you have to
01:05:29
um
01:05:31
his living
01:05:33
was a blessing.
01:05:36
So I could look at what happened and be
01:05:40
rightfully traumatized by the experience
01:05:44
and nobody could really argue with that.
01:05:47
But
01:05:48
you have to you have to move through it.
01:05:51
And and on the opposite side of that is
01:05:54
the fact that he's with us today, that
01:05:56
he didn't die, that my father is alive.
01:05:59
And that is an extraordinary blessing
01:06:03
for me as his as his daughter. In life,
01:06:06
you have a choice only in how you
01:06:07
respond. And I choose to
01:06:11
see the positive outcome that
01:06:15
that transpired and dwell there.
01:06:18
>> The mind plays out scenarios, right? The
01:06:20
mind plays out the scenario that where
01:06:22
he he didn't make it, where the he
01:06:24
turned his head in the other direction,
01:06:25
the bullet hit him
01:06:27
>> and you presumably played out that
01:06:29
scenario of what how different life
01:06:31
would have been. Well, seeing it on
01:06:33
repeat for months on television on the
01:06:36
news was certainly like not the easiest
01:06:38
thing and you know that's part of why I
01:06:40
just even before I didn't I never loved
01:06:43
watching the news. I'll read the news
01:06:45
but but no I mean he's here you know
01:06:48
really felt like um a miracle and a
01:06:51
blessing and and that's what I focus on.
01:06:53
I can see the emotion again in you which
01:06:56
is again it's fascinating to me because
01:06:58
I've you know I've heard you know people
01:07:00
around you speak about it but the the
01:07:02
emotional toll seems to be more still
01:07:04
sort of present in you about that
01:07:06
incident than it does about other people
01:07:07
that I've heard speak about this
01:07:09
>> well he's my father he's my father and
01:07:12
he almost lost his life that day but he
01:07:15
didn't and I feel truly grateful for
01:07:19
that
01:07:20
>> and in this second season of his
01:07:22
presidential career you decide that you
01:07:23
want to pursue um many other things,
01:07:26
many other things, many other business
01:07:27
developments and um real estate
01:07:29
developments. You step away from
01:07:31
politics in 2022, I believe. You
01:07:34
announced that you would not be
01:07:35
returning for the third election
01:07:37
campaign. Uh you said, "This time
01:07:39
around, I'm choosing to prioritize my
01:07:41
young children and the private life
01:07:42
we're creating as a family. I do not
01:07:43
plan to be involved in politics." You
01:07:45
also said on Lex Lex's podcast,
01:07:47
"Politics is a pretty dark world.
01:07:50
There's a lot of darkness, a lot of
01:07:51
negativity, and it's just really at odds
01:07:54
with what feels good to me as a human
01:07:57
being. I was thinking this earlier on
01:07:58
about 30 minutes ago. I was thinking,
01:08:00
your nature, as I've known you, seems to
01:08:03
be the antithesis of this type of world,
01:08:07
like fame.
01:08:08
>> Totally true. You know,
01:08:09
>> there's this like gladatorial aspect of
01:08:12
it that's just like not for me. I care
01:08:14
deeply about policy, about helping
01:08:16
people, and I think there's all sorts of
01:08:18
ways to do that. and and and I'm doing
01:08:20
that now in in the private sector, but I
01:08:24
don't like politics, but I I do care
01:08:26
about policy um quite deeply and I've
01:08:29
tried to focus on on that element of
01:08:32
service.
01:08:32
>> And do you feel the need to express you
01:08:36
never do because you don't punch back at
01:08:38
the world publicly, which is I think
01:08:41
something to be admired. And I I've
01:08:43
learned actually quite a lot from
01:08:44
everything you said there about not
01:08:46
feeling the need to like punch back at
01:08:48
the world.
01:08:48
>> It takes training.
01:08:50
>> It like takes real training. I was
01:08:52
actually reading uh recently uh
01:08:58
about the crow and I thought it was like
01:09:00
a great metaphor for life. So crow is
01:09:03
like a highly intelligent animal,
01:09:05
extraordinarily so in some cases, but it
01:09:08
can get aggressive and territorial and
01:09:12
it's one of the only animals that will
01:09:14
actually attack an eagle. Like a crow
01:09:17
will go and just sometimes because it's
01:09:19
being territorial and other times for
01:09:21
fun. And the crow will actually like mob
01:09:24
the eagle and it will land on its back
01:09:26
and it will start pecking it. And the
01:09:29
eagle's response to this, which
01:09:31
naturally the eagle's
01:09:33
many times over larger than the crow,
01:09:35
isn't to like twist and turn and knock
01:09:37
the crow off or um defend itself and and
01:09:40
and then go on the offense. It's just to
01:09:43
fly up. And it flies up while the crow
01:09:46
continues to like just peck at its at
01:09:50
its back. It flies up and up. And the
01:09:52
crow is not built for high altitude
01:09:54
flight. So at a certain point as the
01:09:56
eagle flies up, not expending any energy
01:09:59
in the counterattack, the crow just
01:10:02
falls off.
01:10:03
>> It can't sustain the altitude.
01:10:06
So I and I kind of love that analogy for
01:10:09
life because you have a choice. You
01:10:11
know, you can turn around, you can fight
01:10:12
back, probably the eagle would win or
01:10:15
you can just, you know, play the game on
01:10:18
your own terms. And I I think about that
01:10:20
sometimes and I thought it was like a
01:10:22
brilliant metaphor for dealing with the
01:10:25
noise.
01:10:26
>> And you trained that muscle
01:10:27
>> for sure.
01:10:28
>> So there was a time when you did care.
01:10:30
>> For sure. Because I there was a time
01:10:31
when I was just like confused. I'm like
01:10:33
well but I didn't even do that. Like
01:10:34
what are you talking about? Like I don't
01:10:36
even know what you're and and then
01:10:38
there's a sense of well that's unfair.
01:10:39
Like that's an unfair attack. And then
01:10:41
you realize like a lot of it's unfair
01:10:43
especially in politics. It's like it's
01:10:45
just like a team sport and people attack
01:10:48
and you know and and people also, you
01:10:51
know, put you up on a pedestal and you
01:10:54
just can't get distracted by either. You
01:10:56
just have to be yourself and uh you have
01:10:58
to fly up, let the crows fall off and um
01:11:02
and that's it. That's all you can do.
01:11:04
>> Do any of you remember a conversation I
01:11:06
had on this podcast with anthropologist
01:11:08
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01:11:10
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01:11:12
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01:11:14
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01:12:04
Enjoy. We have finally caved in. So many
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01:12:12
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01:12:14
every single time a guest sits here with
01:12:15
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01:12:17
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01:12:19
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01:12:20
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same time, especially people in big
01:12:44
companies. So, what we've done is we've
01:12:46
bundled them together and you can buy
01:12:48
both at the same time. And if you want
01:12:49
to drive connection and instill habit
01:12:52
change in your company, head to the
01:12:53
diary.com to inquire and our team will
01:12:55
be in touch. You are very different from
01:12:58
your father. Now listen, I know you you
01:13:00
know you love your father deeply and
01:13:02
I've watched you in every interview
01:13:03
you've ever done to talk to that love
01:13:05
and I have zero exactly zero desire to
01:13:09
to ask you any questions or ask anything
01:13:11
that's going to try and drive a a wedge
01:13:12
or get you to say something that I think
01:13:14
you know is is is not fair. But the
01:13:17
thing I find interesting is that like
01:13:19
how you make your way in the world and
01:13:21
like become your own person
01:13:23
>> when you do have this derivative noise
01:13:26
that's trying to define you through
01:13:28
things that you have never even actually
01:13:29
done.
01:13:30
>> Yeah.
01:13:30
>> And I just find that fascinating like
01:13:31
how and life has clearly made you a
01:13:33
stoic for this very reason because you
01:13:35
have to deal with I guess to some degree
01:13:37
being characterized in a certain way for
01:13:39
actions that you yourself haven't taken.
01:13:40
So one has to become a stoic or else how
01:13:42
could one possibly survive
01:13:44
>> like we all deal I think on microscopic
01:13:46
levels with like
01:13:48
>> the eye of the hurricane.
01:13:49
>> Yeah.
01:13:50
>> I think but like I I sometimes like feel
01:13:53
a lot of gratitude for it because I I
01:13:56
think sometimes you
01:13:58
keep being taught a lesson until you
01:14:00
learn it. And I think as somebody who
01:14:03
always wanted peace and harmony and I
01:14:06
think I needed to like maybe it took
01:14:08
this level of intensity to be like okay
01:14:11
you know like peace and harmony within
01:14:13
the context that I can help facilitate
01:14:17
you know like I can't control something
01:14:19
so much um bigger than that. So so
01:14:22
sometimes like maybe that was my
01:14:24
medicine you know.
01:14:24
>> Did you go to therapy?
01:14:27
not in my childhood in actually as an
01:14:30
adult I um I I have a lot of um friends
01:14:35
who are unbelievable either teachers,
01:14:38
professors, therapists and um and I have
01:14:43
like a very growthoriented mindset as
01:14:46
you could probably tell like I'm always
01:14:47
looking to learn about myself and about
01:14:49
the world and uh so they've provided
01:14:52
unbelievable perspective for me over the
01:14:54
years. I asked that because I imagine
01:14:56
there's lots of people watching now who
01:14:57
contend with their own struggles. Yeah.
01:15:00
>> Similar to that, dealing with the
01:15:01
outside world or
01:15:02
>> I think therapy can be amazing. Um I
01:15:04
think you have to have the right
01:15:05
therapist. Um and somebody who helps you
01:15:08
sort of process and move through. I
01:15:10
don't think it's like healthy to linger
01:15:13
too long. Um like I think you have to
01:15:17
move forward.
01:15:18
>> When did you decide to start seeing a
01:15:20
therapist?
01:15:24
um
01:15:25
in my adulthood like as an adult and it
01:15:28
was more just as like another tool for
01:15:31
me in the same way that I meditate you
01:15:34
know I view it as as an opportunity to
01:15:37
like
01:15:39
to do an internal inventory
01:15:41
>> was there a catalyst there's often a
01:15:43
catalyst when I interview people
01:15:44
something happened they realized that
01:15:45
they needed more tools
01:15:48
>> you know I I think um some of the
01:15:51
challenges es around um Jared's health.
01:15:56
>> I just left Washington. Our life was in
01:15:58
flux. Jared um was diagnosed with
01:16:02
thyroid cancer for a second time. Um and
01:16:06
uh and then my mother passed and I
01:16:08
wanted to make sure I'm I'm really good
01:16:12
at like being tough and I'm really good
01:16:15
at kind of compartmentalizing. So it was
01:16:19
more just like a check with myself that
01:16:21
I was also taking time to like you know
01:16:24
sort of like look inward and uh and like
01:16:27
nurture myself. So it was not it was not
01:16:30
particularly like formal um but it was
01:16:34
more you know and I think when you can
01:16:38
speak to people you trust who are
01:16:41
knowledgeable and just make sure you're
01:16:43
like taking time to like really heal and
01:16:45
not just move forward. You strike me as
01:16:47
someone that spent a lot of time being
01:16:48
tough
01:16:50
>> on the outside.
01:16:51
>> Um because
01:16:52
>> I like tough and super soft at the same
01:16:54
time.
01:16:54
>> But I see that.
01:16:55
>> But I' I've kind of But that's like
01:16:58
where you know I have to like watch
01:17:00
myself from because my life has always
01:17:03
had such intensity like I can like move
01:17:06
through things like I sometimes have to
01:17:08
pull myself back and say like process
01:17:10
because I don't believe that you ever
01:17:12
put something in a box. I think that
01:17:15
thing that you're hiding from yourself
01:17:18
is with you every time you make a bad
01:17:20
decision and like driving the bus, you
01:17:22
know, like it's you may not be like
01:17:24
fully conscious of it, but it's it's
01:17:26
like there so you better unpack it um
01:17:29
and as close to real time as possible, I
01:17:32
think the better.
01:17:34
>> Yeah. And in your context, I imagine as
01:17:35
well, you can't just offload like the
01:17:37
average person does in every context
01:17:39
like Yeah. because there's consequences
01:17:40
to that. Whether it's trusting people,
01:17:42
whether it's the media trying to get
01:17:43
something on you, what, you know,
01:17:44
whoever it might be. So, and then, you
01:17:46
know, you're in a family where,
01:17:48
you know, it's important to keep a
01:17:52
straight face, especially in public a
01:17:54
lot. And I was watching the footage from
01:17:56
>> Yeah. people think I'm like have like
01:17:57
sort of like a stoic look in public. I'm
01:17:59
very like,
01:18:00
>> but I but I spent time with you behind
01:18:02
the scenes. You do you have this sort of
01:18:04
bit of a dichotomy in the sense that
01:18:05
you're there's a real
01:18:10
like pure
01:18:13
um
01:18:14
soft
01:18:16
empathetic
01:18:18
soul. And then it appears to me that
01:18:22
life is
01:18:25
demanded for the survival in the context
01:18:26
you've been in that you pop a mask on in
01:18:29
front of that to keep a straight face
01:18:30
and a tough demeanor and to not punch
01:18:32
back and to to suppress that in certain
01:18:35
contexts because frankly you kind of
01:18:37
have to if you're in the shoes that
01:18:39
you've had to fill. And I guess one can
01:18:42
keep that that mask that tough exterior
01:18:45
on too long.
01:18:47
>> Yeah. Yeah. To the point.
01:18:48
>> Well, I think you actually see it with a
01:18:51
lot of politicians.
01:18:53
They feel inauthentic because they are,
01:18:55
you know, they've experienced so much
01:18:57
that they they never allow the mass to
01:19:00
slip.
01:19:00
>> Yeah.
01:19:01
>> I think one of the things that makes my
01:19:02
father so unique is how is he so
01:19:05
authentic in a world where so few people
01:19:06
are like in that profession, that realm?
01:19:09
And they're like almost like you look at
01:19:12
they feel like they're robots. the way
01:19:14
they speak, the way they interact, the
01:19:16
way they engage. Oftentimes you see that
01:19:18
when you're with them one-on-one as as
01:19:21
you do as it comes across like on a
01:19:23
debate on a television set. Um, so I
01:19:27
think there's a balance. Like I I don't
01:19:29
think you need to be
01:19:34
like your most vulnerable self in the
01:19:36
public. Like why? like what is I think
01:19:39
you want to be authentic but I think
01:19:41
like you should like you have to guard
01:19:43
things about yourself about your family
01:19:45
and I think that's like healthy and and
01:19:47
good and I do think there is a part of
01:19:49
me that's like there's never been like
01:19:51
uh there's no room for error you know
01:19:54
like even as a child like growing up in
01:19:56
the public eye was always nervous about
01:19:58
doing something and embarrassing my
01:19:59
parents and then politics and you have
01:20:02
to be perfect and any slip up is
01:20:04
completely weaponized against you so you
01:20:07
become very careful publicly. I think
01:20:09
the mistake though is people
01:20:12
get confused and they lose a sense of
01:20:15
themselves and
01:20:17
they bring that into their relationships
01:20:21
like off um the public stage and and I
01:20:25
think that's really unfortunate.
01:20:28
>> You mentioned um one of the catalyst
01:20:31
moments for you seeking out some sort of
01:20:34
more professional support was the death
01:20:36
of your mother. 2022.
01:20:39
>> Another beautiful photo of her wonderful
01:20:41
hair as well.
01:20:48
Try not to cry again.
01:20:49
>> It's okay.
01:20:50
>> She's extraordinary.
01:20:54
She was extraordinary.
01:21:02
>> It's okay.
01:21:06
She lived a good life though. You know,
01:21:09
I tell myself with my mom, she like
01:21:12
really lived she had fun. Um, so she
01:21:16
taught me a lot about just like, you
01:21:19
know, the presence I talk about about
01:21:21
just like
01:21:24
bringing intention to what you do.
01:21:25
Bringing Sorry.
01:21:32
Um
01:21:34
she uh
01:21:38
she was very herself and she was very
01:21:40
joyful and she loved to dance and she
01:21:43
loved to play and so um she lived uh she
01:21:47
lived a good life.
01:21:57
It's a really it's a unbelievably tragic
01:22:00
way to lose a parent is suddenly and
01:22:02
unexpected when they are
01:22:03
>> sure
01:22:04
>> strong. I mean it says a lot that your
01:22:06
grandmother which is her mother
01:22:08
>> still alive
01:22:09
>> still alive almost 100 years old and she
01:22:11
lost her life at 70 to falling down the
01:22:14
stairs in her her
01:22:15
>> By the way I said my grandmother was 98
01:22:16
she's 99.
01:22:17
>> Wow. Okay.
01:22:19
>> Crazy. It's amazing.
01:22:22
Yeah. No, it's it very challenging and
01:22:25
you know grief is just
01:22:32
losing a parent. It's it like hits
01:22:35
different you know um especially
01:22:38
unexpectedly especially sort of postco
01:22:42
which like kind of robbed so many of us
01:22:44
of so many years you know some for some
01:22:47
people they
01:22:48
>> sort of sheltered together um and it
01:22:51
actually created connection between
01:22:52
generations and you know unfortunately I
01:22:55
was she was in New York and I was in
01:22:57
Washington so
01:22:59
>> um there was the
01:23:03
there was distance there just
01:23:05
geographically. Um
01:23:08
but um but you know I I really like we
01:23:12
really I was telling you before we
01:23:14
really keep her memory alive like I
01:23:15
really took the time to think about her
01:23:20
not through the eyes of the child who
01:23:22
idolized her fully but through the eyes
01:23:25
of an adult who saw her clearly.
01:23:28
her strengths, her challenges, and like
01:23:32
I think about like my role as a parent
01:23:36
to my own children is
01:23:39
to sort of stand guard against like to
01:23:42
to make sure they're exposed to all the
01:23:45
elements of her that were amazing and
01:23:47
and share the stories and remind them.
01:23:50
Um,
01:23:52
and also to like kind of like a lionist
01:23:56
and guard against the passing on of of
01:24:01
you know challenges she had and and
01:24:03
struggles and um and so I try to do that
01:24:07
with my own family.
01:24:08
>> Have you grieved properly?
01:24:10
>> Yeah,
01:24:11
>> because you're very busy.
01:24:12
>> I think it's no I think it's super
01:24:14
important and that's part of the reason
01:24:16
I really got introspective. I think
01:24:19
wherever there's discomfort, that's
01:24:20
where you have to go.
01:24:22
>> And you know, I would talk about her and
01:24:23
start to cry just like I'm still doing
01:24:26
um but in a different kind of way, you
01:24:27
know, like I I was avoiding
01:24:31
for a moment, a very short moment
01:24:32
because I recognized in myself like the
01:24:34
discomfort and like you have to like
01:24:37
unlock that and you have to really make
01:24:39
the time to think about and talk about
01:24:43
and and process. On the business side of
01:24:46
things, you have started in 2023, I
01:24:49
believe, at 41 years old, you co-founded
01:24:51
Planet Harvest with one of your friends,
01:24:53
Melissa Akerman, inspired by your
01:24:56
experiences creating the USDA's farmers
01:24:59
to families food box program during
01:25:01
COVID 19. When I look at all that you
01:25:04
do, you know, there's you're doing this
01:25:06
incredible project in Albania to develop
01:25:09
the land there. You are investing in
01:25:13
technology companies. you you've got
01:25:14
this planet harvest project with which
01:25:16
is incredible and then you've got you
01:25:18
know um a family which you know you talk
01:25:20
about standing in guard in front of them
01:25:22
and so on and so forth.
01:25:25
How how do you balance all of this
01:25:28
stuff? How does one balance it?
01:25:31
>> You don't like balance is elusive. Like
01:25:33
I think of balance it's like a scale.
01:25:35
It's going to tip. You're one child's
01:25:38
flu away from like complete imbalance,
01:25:42
right? where you get the call from the
01:25:43
school nurse and your son has to come
01:25:45
home unexpectedly or um or there's like
01:25:49
a roadblock in a project you're working
01:25:51
on or you know you can't striving for
01:25:55
balance is not
01:25:59
like a practical pursuit. I think what I
01:26:02
strive for is to live a life that aligns
01:26:05
with my priorities and to have more days
01:26:10
than not that I feel like I've done just
01:26:13
that. And I think if you get that right,
01:26:15
most of the time you're doing pretty
01:26:17
well because balance doesn't work. It's
01:26:19
just like our lives are too hectic and
01:26:21
there's too much outside of our control
01:26:23
to to maintain
01:26:25
that equilibrium.
01:26:28
I'm so curious as to where you've um you
01:26:30
know I know you've read a lot of
01:26:32
stoicism and you read a lot of books and
01:26:33
you've you've been to therapy but you
01:26:35
know you've you contend with a lot
01:26:38
businesses investing the real estate
01:26:41
projects all the family stuff the
01:26:43
broader noise.
01:26:44
>> Yeah.
01:26:44
>> Um and you've really much of what I've
01:26:47
learned about you is that you've really
01:26:48
managed to center yourself on yourself.
01:26:50
>> You've managed to sort of pull yourself
01:26:51
inwards in a world that pulls all of us
01:26:53
outwardly. And is is there a particular
01:26:56
book you might advise people to read
01:26:58
about this or is there or they just have
01:26:59
to have life hit them?
01:27:02
>> Well, I think you know religion for many
01:27:04
people provides a beautiful framework um
01:27:07
whether it's the Bible, the Torah, the
01:27:09
you know of of like be a good person
01:27:12
like really um live a purpose- driven
01:27:17
meaningful life. Um, so I I think
01:27:21
there's so much wisdom there and I I
01:27:23
think, you know, we talked about the
01:27:25
Stoics. I think they're some of the
01:27:27
great guides. I also love some of the
01:27:30
Eastern philosophies. Like I love lu and
01:27:33
the taq ching is an amazing it kind of
01:27:36
reminds me of like the it was like
01:27:38
similar to the philosophy of of jiujitsu
01:27:41
around just sort of presence and and not
01:27:44
sort of fighting what is you know so
01:27:48
much of suffering comes from a rejection
01:27:50
of like what is um like fighting
01:27:53
something that it just is fact um as
01:27:56
opposed to sort of that which is within
01:28:00
our control. So I I'm actually very
01:28:02
drawn to sort of Buddhism and Dowoism
01:28:05
and um I personally feel um like very
01:28:09
alive. Like I think
01:28:11
you look at if you if you think back
01:28:14
over the last week and I don't know what
01:28:15
this is for you but you think back over
01:28:17
the last week maybe even the last month
01:28:19
or the last day like when you were in
01:28:21
like a flow state when you fel felt most
01:28:23
alive like that's your medicine like
01:28:26
that's like you in your essence. But so
01:28:29
I try to also like put myself in those
01:28:31
situations as much as possible and and
01:28:34
um and make sure to like bring that into
01:28:36
my life.
01:28:37
>> I'm fascinated by Planet Harvest
01:28:39
>> because you could have done so much with
01:28:41
the leverage and and experience that you
01:28:43
have and you chose to build a business
01:28:45
called Planet Harvest, which you can
01:28:47
find at planeth harvest.com that is
01:28:50
helping to reduce food waste and
01:28:52
creating change for farmers across the
01:28:54
country. why of all the things that you
01:28:55
could have aimed at um and I know you're
01:28:57
aiming at many at once, but why is
01:28:59
Planet Harvest so central to your
01:29:01
mission at the moment?
01:29:03
>> Thank you. I mean, this is truly like a
01:29:06
missiondriven
01:29:08
um passion and and pursuit of mine and
01:29:11
um I think I told you before that like
01:29:13
there's nothing better than
01:29:15
being obvious by being contrarian. And
01:29:18
and that's sort of how Planet Harvest
01:29:20
was born. saw through the co pandemic.
01:29:23
Um, I got really close to the farmers
01:29:25
because I created this farmertof family
01:29:26
food box program that created grants
01:29:31
that would enable farmers to sell their
01:29:34
perishable produce um to third parties,
01:29:37
distributors, NOS's, churches who would
01:29:41
then get it to the last mile of needs,
01:29:43
ensuring that when people needed food,
01:29:45
the food in the fields wasn't going to
01:29:47
waste by being tilled under as we saw in
01:29:49
the early days of the pandemic. You
01:29:50
know, the supply chain shut down. So the
01:29:53
restaurants were closed, the airlines,
01:29:54
the hotels. Um, so the farmers had no
01:29:57
place to to send their food and couldn't
01:29:59
afford to take it out of the fields. So
01:30:01
we created a grant program to enable
01:30:04
that connection. But it really got me um
01:30:07
very close at a at a farm level to to
01:30:10
the farmer and and and their experience.
01:30:12
And obviously that was a catastrophic
01:30:15
time when there was just zero demand.
01:30:18
But but I started seeing even in a
01:30:19
normalized situation the amount of waste
01:30:22
that happens on a food on a on a field
01:30:25
level and the amount of food beautiful
01:30:27
nutritious perfect food that's left to
01:30:30
rot in the fields while so many
01:30:32
communities want for for that form of
01:30:35
nutrition. and um and I I met a woman um
01:30:40
who's uh CEO of the company and we
01:30:43
decided to co-found an effort together
01:30:45
to utilize this excess and create demand
01:30:48
for it and and get it into the ecosystem
01:30:51
supporting the environment, supporting
01:30:53
um these great American farmers. Like
01:30:55
I'll just give you one example. I mean,
01:30:57
strawberries,
01:30:59
400 million pounds of strawberries every
01:31:02
year get left in the fields, not even
01:31:04
taken out and and given. Not because
01:31:07
they're imperfect. They're just don't
01:31:10
meet a really rigid
01:31:13
cosmetic specification that's defined by
01:31:15
retailers oftent times 20, 30, 40 years
01:31:18
ago so that everything's very
01:31:19
standardized. It's just a great way to
01:31:21
solve a problem, provide incremental
01:31:23
revenue for farmers, which is so needed
01:31:26
in such a tough business. So, we're
01:31:28
really proud of of the work we're doing
01:31:29
there.
01:31:30
>> It's a beautiful, beautiful cause. I'm
01:31:31
going to link link below if anyone wants
01:31:33
to learn more um as many details as they
01:31:35
can about the project and ways others
01:31:36
can get involved, whether they're
01:31:38
retailers or farmers or anyone that's
01:31:40
interested in getting involved. Um,
01:31:42
Avanka, we have a closing tradition
01:31:44
where the last guest leaves a question
01:31:45
for the next guest, not knowing who
01:31:46
they're leaving it for. And the question
01:31:48
that has been left for you, it assumes
01:31:50
you are a parent, so thankfully you are,
01:31:53
um, is if your oldest child came to you
01:31:56
and said they wanted to follow in your
01:31:58
footsteps, what are the three pieces of
01:32:00
advice you would give them that would
01:32:03
increase their probability of happiness
01:32:05
and success?
01:32:08
>> Oh, that's a great question. Um,
01:32:12
I think first and foremost,
01:32:14
>> that's your eldest.
01:32:15
>> Yes.
01:32:15
>> Arabella, is it?
01:32:16
>> Arabella.
01:32:18
So what would you say to Arabella? She
01:32:19
says she wants to be an entrepreneur and
01:32:20
an investor. And
01:32:22
>> I think first you have to love it.
01:32:27
I think especially if you want to be an
01:32:29
entrepreneur like the amount of work and
01:32:32
dedication and grind, the challenges,
01:32:36
um the responsibility as you build a
01:32:38
business for other people's livelihoods.
01:32:40
Um it's it's enormous and it's you know
01:32:43
this I mean it's it's it can be very
01:32:46
heavy um to carry and I have never seen
01:32:50
someone
01:32:52
at the peak of their game who doesn't
01:32:55
absolutely love what they do and I've
01:32:57
seen a lot of brilliant people I went to
01:32:58
school with many of them who were way
01:33:00
smarter
01:33:01
>> than anyone else in the class who flamed
01:33:04
out
01:33:05
>> by going in a direction that they were
01:33:08
capable and proficient
01:33:09
but not passionate about. So, it has to
01:33:12
you have to want it because if you
01:33:14
don't, somebody who's less um perhaps
01:33:18
less capable, perhaps less smart,
01:33:20
they'll work twice as hard and like you
01:33:22
can't compete with that.
01:33:23
>> Mhm.
01:33:23
>> So, that's number one. I think number
01:33:25
two
01:33:27
is um
01:33:30
you can't imitate anyone. You have to be
01:33:31
yourself. And we've talked a lot about
01:33:33
like knowing thyself, but um actually uh
01:33:38
Naval who's a friend of mine who's who's
01:33:40
great um he talks about like as an
01:33:44
entrepreneur the importance of
01:33:48
authenticity and how
01:33:51
it's like it's the key like when you're
01:33:54
copying you're losing like you have to
01:33:56
be yourself and then nobody can compete
01:33:58
with you. Um, and so I think you you
01:34:01
have to sort of find yourself, be
01:34:03
yourself. You can't be derivative of
01:34:05
anything else. Of course, you can learn
01:34:06
from others, but um, but you have to
01:34:09
blaze your own course and um, and as an
01:34:11
entrepreneur building something new, you
01:34:14
have to have also like a tremendous
01:34:15
amount of resilience through that
01:34:17
process.
01:34:19
And
01:34:21
you know it's um that's nuanced in and
01:34:23
of itself because that doesn't mean like
01:34:25
you have to wear blinders and go when
01:34:27
you know it's right but you have to also
01:34:30
I mean they talk about the famous pivot
01:34:32
right like in like you also have to
01:34:34
pivot sometimes right so it's not not
01:34:37
like a fault you have to still be
01:34:39
receptive to um to sort of incoming
01:34:43
information but for the most part like
01:34:45
you have to go and um and I think for a
01:34:47
young person I would tell my daughter,
01:34:50
you know, you're going to have to
01:34:51
believe in yourself before the world
01:34:52
believes in you. Like, you can't wait
01:34:55
for the world to believe in you
01:34:56
>> because if you haven't believed in
01:34:58
yourself, you'll never get there. So,
01:35:00
you have to start. And that's why like I
01:35:02
love talking like one of the things I've
01:35:04
I've been doing a lot of is investing in
01:35:08
technology businesses, AI, robotics, um,
01:35:11
incredible founders and entrepreneurs
01:35:14
doing building generationally defining
01:35:16
products.
01:35:18
um and and developing these amazing
01:35:20
ideas and I love seeing the belief and
01:35:24
the conviction they have in themselves
01:35:25
and sometimes like it's like their
01:35:28
experience doesn't match like their
01:35:30
confidence but like you have to start
01:35:32
somewhere and if you don't like believe
01:35:34
in yourself you'll never get out of the
01:35:36
gate. So, so believe in yourself,
01:35:40
charge forward, and um and then when you
01:35:43
start putting up some W's and getting
01:35:45
some wins, like the rest of the world
01:35:48
may or may not um start to believe in
01:35:51
you as well,
01:35:53
>> thank you.
01:35:53
>> Thank you.
01:35:54
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