00:00:01
those are all the pills you take in one day 111 because that's where the data led me this is how you don't die Brian
00:00:07
Johnson the man who spends two million dollars a year to slow down as age he's managed to reverse his biological age
00:00:13
already to an 18 year old projected to live to 200. the only objective we have is don't die
00:00:20
I've opted into an algorithm that takes better care of me than I can myself it sounds overwhelming in the beginning but
00:00:26
trust me on this so my bedtime is at 8 30. and you had a hundred percent sleep four months straight now what about
00:00:32
hanky-panky not after 8 30. alcohol three ounces every morning with breakfast for breakfast for breakfast my
00:00:38
last meal of the day is at 11AM and every calorie has to fight for its life you are very kind in bringing me some
00:00:44
food presumably this is what you eat that's right if you ask the body what do you want to eat to be an ideal Health
00:00:49
this is the answer for the legit rude that is a mushroom covered in chocolate how fun
00:00:55
why is Brian doing this I was thinking about what your father went through and I was wondering if there's some kind of
00:01:00
Link there it was always on my mind I mean he's in pain and he's stuck and he can't overcome this terrible thing that's ruining his life
00:01:12
foreign I am you're very very clearly Mission driven the ultimate question becomes are you
00:01:28
happy um before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel
00:01:40
didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the
00:01:54
bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode [Music]
00:02:04
Prime [Music] what mission are you on and why does that mission matter to you but also to everybody else listening to this right now my mission
00:02:17
is for the human race to survive and Thrive and it's figuring out what we do that creates the highest probability of that being possible and why specifically have you taken on
00:02:30
that mission versus any other Mission you could have committed your life and time to why you
00:02:37
hmm and I want the long answer to this yeah because all the context going right back
00:02:42
to the beginning I had this transformative experience when I was 19 years old I went to Ecuador and I was a
00:02:47
missionary and I lived among extreme poverty dirt floors mud huts people not knowing how they're going to make ends meet day-to-day and I came
00:02:58
back to the United States and my family was poor growing up but it was opulent compared to Ecuador I couldn't believe
00:03:05
that I had lived in a bubble my entire life unaware of circumstances of other realities like where I was at in Ecuador and I was facing decisions in college what to study what to become who I was
00:03:16
going to be you start creating these identities all I could identify was this fire that had lit within me that I wanted to spend
00:03:23
my life trying to improving the human race at a global scale I don't know where it came from but it just coming
00:03:29
back from Ecuador it seemed like that was what I want to spend my life on I didn't know what to do I was 21 years
00:03:35
old I didn't have any ideas and so I thought I would become an entrepreneur make a whole bunch of money by the age of 30 and then with that money try to
00:03:41
figure out a plan to do it and so lucky me I sold Braintree venmo at 34 I made a few hundred million dollars it sold for
00:03:48
800 million dollars right and then I set my mind to this question of what one thing in existence
00:03:55
could I do that would be relevant in the 25th Century I grew up on biographies and so I'm accustomed to thinking about things on centuries time scale so doing things that not the matter in
00:04:08
the news cycle tomorrow but the intelligence in the 21st century would say you know what we appreciate what
00:04:14
happened in the early 21st century take me a couple of years further backwards in the the timeline I want to
00:04:21
understand before the age of 16 how would you describe the personality of that young man if I if you walked in here now and
00:04:28
you sat down how would you like characterize that young man friendly and fun so I think that the
00:04:34
event that activities maybe that defines me the best is I was in seventh grade going into eighth grade and there was the kid started breaking out into different groups of identities
00:04:46
donors jocks you know nerds and it saddened me because I wanted to be friends with everybody and people started creating these groups and there was this conflict between which groups
00:04:57
can hang out with which groups and so I made a map of the social structure of the entire School of what people were what groups and then where they're at within that group so were they the the
00:05:08
alpha in the group and then you had the second tiers and third tiers and then I systematically went about and I became
00:05:13
friends with everyone in the entire school every single group and it didn't matter who you were
00:05:19
I was friends with you and so I really enjoyed connecting with people I enjoyed the friendships I enjoyed the interactions I enjoyed different people for different reasons and uh
00:05:30
I guess that's kind of stuck with me where I the idea of group structure and hindering it's same with ideas like if
00:05:37
you're in a certain idea and you can't Bridge another idea the outcome wasn't the most telling part of that story the most telling part of
00:05:42
the story was the process the process if you made a physical like a physical diagram in the school you didn't just do
00:05:49
it in your head you went home as how a 16 year old or something yeah uh yeah so I was um
00:05:55
like 13 12 or 13. yeah you must be able to say objectively that that's unusual behavior for a 12 year old to be that
00:06:01
analytical about problem solving uh for 12 year old that's not what I was doing when I was doing plastic ball against
00:06:08
the fence and you're dissecting the social structure of the school and then manipulating it to make friends with
00:06:13
everybody yeah that's how information presents itself like when I meet somebody uh like in the movie A
00:06:18
Beautiful Mind with John Nash who did uh equilibrium uh Nash equilibrium uh there's a scene where you go into his garage and he has this big wall and has like pictures and then it has pins and
00:06:29
it has threads everything connected it's like this mad man's wall that's how my my mind understands information is when
00:06:36
I meet somebody or or look at a given problem I instantaneously go to creating a map of all information uh like one of the center pieces what's connecting to what how is it structured what's the dimensions of it and so even if I meet
00:06:48
someone new and they tell me a story like you know I was at the coffee shop and you're like what details do they include in this conversation what is
00:06:55
their the person they're telling me about what about the reaction for the people what elements do they identify and that then enables me to create this
00:07:02
structure of their mind and how they package the information and so yeah my mind just naturally uh hangs on to every
00:07:09
single word and creates a scaffolding of how the person understands reality that sounds exhausting to someone whose mind does not work in that way it's exhilarating
00:07:22
so 19 years old you go from this this Mormon mission to Ecuador this ultimately culminates in a question
00:07:29
challenging your faith um happened to me the same age in fact I was very religious when I was younger
00:07:35
and then 80 19 years old that's all starts to fall apart what was your process like
00:07:41
uh it was torture and I think I'm not sure what religion you are in Christianity or whatever yeah
00:07:47
yeah okay yeah this was not a whatever thing for me when you're a raised Mormon it is your
00:07:55
singular reality and identity of existence it's not like you're casually involved it's everything you are as a
00:08:03
human and so when you are like when you're born into it and then force fed that and your entire Community is built upon that it creates structures in your mind that you're not even aware of and so as
00:08:16
I began breaking from it I would rationally be able to walk to the conclusions say logically I don't
00:08:22
understand the situation but then emotionally the brain was like hold tight you know like we feel the
00:08:27
following things we can't quite structure in a logical format and it creates this bizarre conundrum in the brain and so I had that difficulty then
00:08:34
that got caught up in my depression where in my early 20s I my brain I got into chronic depression where the brain
00:08:41
was like life is awful you know everything is hopeless life is not worth living you should kill yourself and so
00:08:48
in that moment I learned that I could observe my brain dropping these thoughts on me and that I wasn't my thoughts like Depression was The Depression was
00:08:59
speaking but it wasn't me and when I learned that I thought wait a second if I am an observing depression
00:09:06
and action here what can I trust for my brain in the first place so when a thought drops in
00:09:12
my my awareness where did that come from and could I trust it under what circumstances and
00:09:17
then I realized if my brain is doing this to me other brains are doing this other people how can I trust their brains and so it's
00:09:24
just like this Authority collapse where in religion all the people who I had trusted to tell me
00:09:30
to give me wise advice about life that fell apart my brain fell apart other people's
00:09:37
brains fell apart and I began arriving to this observation who in reality can I trust no matter what circumstances
00:09:44
and that really started that kickstarted the process of me trying to reconstruct my reality in a way that I felt was
00:09:50
stable versus like ping-ponging around to like just wild emotion and this random thought from my brain how long did your
00:09:57
Depression last and when did it start uh age 24 I remember I was in the a parking
00:10:02
lot one day with my brother we were working on a startup and something just broke in my brain I remember telling him
00:10:09
like Hey something just happened I feel it it's weird and he was like just power through it I'm like okay but I I
00:10:16
physically felt something happened one day and then I just got in this funk for 10 years and I couldn't get out of it 10
00:10:22
years and what did that funk look like practically day to day or week by week it was uh they're like all these different layers of problems so I I was married we had uh
00:10:35
we had our first baby at the age of 25 so I've got a baby at home I'm not sleeping we're taking care of the first one then I'm building startups on top of
00:10:42
that and then we're also working my way out of Mormonism but then that's a conflict because my wife is you know
00:10:48
also Mormonism and the kid like the communities around us and all my entire world is this community and so then we
00:10:54
don't have any money to pay our bills I'm in a startup I'm trying to figure out how to deal with the religion thing trying to keep my marriage together it
00:11:01
just creates this disaster of a circumstance where I just I'm paralyzed and stuck in the
00:11:07
depression in the relationship in the religion not sleeping depressed trying to survive in the startup world and it
00:11:13
was that was kind of my state for about 10 years trying to navigate all those competing complexities when you look
00:11:19
back and try you diagnose the factors that cause that depression is it that that pressure from all different sides
00:11:26
that you think caused the depression I do and so during that 10 years I I pursued solving my depression with equal
00:11:34
rigor as I have anything else I tried everything known to humans to solve depression nothing worked the thing that
00:11:41
worked is my relationship ended and I left the Mormon church and it just left it and that was the
00:11:48
most remarkable experience of my life I just thought it was like this permanent State I couldn't exit but those two modifications
00:11:55
just lifted the cloud and what did that teach you about the nature of your depression uh
00:12:01
I was paralyzed and those decisions felt Unthinkable to me even though I could logically conclude this religion was not something I was going to follow and the
00:12:13
relationship wasn't working out the idea of becoming a divorced father and being in that circumstance the idea
00:12:19
of leaving my entire community of going out and sticking out a new existential reality it paralyzed me and I couldn't
00:12:25
get over the idea that it would be better on the other side and once I once I got myself there that
00:12:32
it's actually better for the kids that was the key thing for me is there was one experience I was in turkey
00:12:38
with some friends late at night and it snapped in my brain the kids are better off with these decisions and that's all I needed and then the next day I put everything into motion
00:12:49
and why did that matter to you so much do you think I suppose that uh for whatever reason I
00:12:58
have been an intensely devoted father like I care deeply about being there for my children for whatever reason yeah I mean I don't know why you know like it's just it's maybe it's part of my identity
00:13:09
maybe I'm trying to compensate for something I don't know but I I invested very very heavily into my children and
00:13:16
the idea of being a divorced father you know with like some kind of split custody situation with some kind of
00:13:22
weird thing between Mom and me and like you know that whole thing I just I couldn't
00:13:29
I couldn't sign up for it and so I stayed in the bad relationship I stayed in the religion trying to thinking that
00:13:35
it was my kids were better off because of it and I really they weren't links to your own childhood doesn't it
00:13:42
where your parents separated when you were super young yeah like so much was going on in my
00:13:48
mind when I'm three years old and my dad is no longer present and then my mom premiered eight my father goes through a
00:13:53
bunch of problems and like I remember my father uh I give credit to my father for owning
00:13:59
up to his life I remember I I knew my father was on drugs at the age like seven or eight
00:14:05
and I would call him when I knew he was high I'd say hey Dad like how's it going
00:14:11
and you know like um I just knew it I wrote him letters and like he you know um yeah we just worked through it together but uh it was always on my mind
00:14:28
if you're visibly emotional to say that yeah why I mean he's in pain and he's stuck and
00:14:36
he can't overcome this terrible thing that's ruining his life and he's not a father to me and you know he
00:14:43
he uh he can't pick me up when he says he's gonna pick me up and he can't do the things he wants to do so it's just it's uh it depressed it steals life from
00:14:51
him and it still is life from me and it's something that uh dominated his life for a long time
00:15:01
you make that decision to separate and to leave the community of Mormonism what's life like from then onwards I mean
00:15:12
so it was I I sold Braintree yeah so within one year's time I sold Braintree got a divorce
00:15:23
left the church and overcame my depression wow and what are you one year and I think maybe the moment that captures it the most is I was I was
00:15:37
in Virginia at the time and I was looking at where I was going to live next and so I spent some time in
00:15:44
New York and for the first time I went to a party in Brooklyn a warehouse party or they
00:15:53
they started like at midnight or one and I'd go there with some friends and I would dance for six seven hours and it was I think one of the most
00:16:05
joyful experiences of my entire life I had never danced before but for some reason this moment of
00:16:15
eliminating all this weight that had been on me for all this time I just felt free and I can move my body like I never
00:16:22
had before my friends would uh they would be they were in disbelief that after five six seven hours I'm like
00:16:29
let's go let's find something else but it was I think it was probably an outpouring of desire that it had for all these years that just was bottled up and it was also
00:16:42
the time that I I was starting to reconstruct I mean I had the money I didn't care about spending the money on
00:16:47
anything like I didn't like money has no value to me outside of the objective to
00:16:53
do something meaningful for the world and so I really started spending an enormous amount of time thinking about through this question if you've applied
00:17:00
this filter what matters in the 25th Century like you go back look what matters in the 15th century and 16th and 17th and you find that
00:17:11
99 of all things that happen I'm making up a number is gone and we're left with these teeny little nuggets of information now there's more because we're capturing more than we ever had before but time has a way to
00:17:24
filter out non-essential relevance and so if you say that now if we say what we're doing in 2023 and you look at
00:17:30
your life and you map out what's going to be left of your existence in 10 years 100 years 200 years 300 years
00:17:38
and that's what I want to focus on is only those things everything else is to me in my it's not for everyone for me
00:17:45
it's a waste of my capacity as a person when you describe dancing in Brooklyn I mean if I lived in Brooklyn for three years so I I did the warehouse parties I know the vibe the very low unsuperficial
00:17:57
nature of the place and the energy you you describe it almost therapeutically as being able to kind of
00:18:03
shake out yeah wait that you were holding yeah specifically what is that weight you were holding you've sold Braintree if you're dancing in Brooklyn what is the weight you're you're shaking out
00:18:15
my entire life I had been told by Authority structures whether it be a religion or Society or a relationship or Community you can do these things you
00:18:28
can think these things you can say these things and you can become these things everyone wanted to put limiters
00:18:37
and after that none it was no longer a game of what you can't do it was a game of what I can do
00:18:45
and it just exploded and now my entire life is what I can do potential is terrifying and I can the moment somebody starts creeping on that that they want to superimpose a label on
00:18:59
me or superimpose a norm or superimpose any tool humans have to say oh you stepped out of line you need to be punished I can feel it like I know where people
00:19:09
try to create those guardrails and everyone does it because it's like oh if you're doing something that's not normal I feel uncomfortable I want to bring you
00:19:16
back into the herd because that's going to make me feel a lot better and so I'm attuned to
00:19:23
the constant attempts at people trying to normalize everyone else we do that in language right we say someone is weird and you know I think of moments where I broke out of my my
00:19:35
community when I say my community I mean like you know you have a group of friends and and then you say I'm going
00:19:41
to start business and I'm going to be this guy and the they use words to pull you back in these facial expressions
00:19:46
little subtle you know exactly the little you're the telling you you're weird and stupid and
00:19:52
ridiculous without saying it with words um people think you're weird don't they uh that's one word they use yeah yeah now it makes sense to me now now it
00:20:06
makes sense to me with the context of your religion and how imprisoned you you say you felt in the
00:20:11
context of that religion I can now understand your resilience and your resistance
00:20:18
to falling in line yeah and not only that it's it's play now for me right it's like a mousetrap yeah um I want to push the part of the mouse
00:20:30
trap that makes it snap and pull my finger out before my finger gets trapped and it's just like this whole little
00:20:36
thing is a set of mouse traps I'm like this one today and then like by doing that you really get a feel for these all
00:20:42
these invisible layers we have in society so what you just said is it's so I loved your comment it's just like like
00:20:48
the smallest facial feature and uh audio captures the whole thing right like I disapprove of your behavior of your thought process if you do this I'm going to penalize you by not offering you my
00:21:02
friendship and approval and you put in the Penalty Box and it's like half of a second of a gesture but it
00:21:10
collapses the entirety on your shoulders where you're like oh man I don't want to be part of the out group
00:21:15
I want to be part of the group I wonder how much potential is trapped behind those little facial expressions and that little social Conformity
00:21:22
pressure you know like human potential of creativity and Ingenuity and thinking for yourself and you know
00:21:28
must be a Jesus Christ most of human potential must be trapped behind that yeah so this
00:21:33
is the thing this is why I'm playing when you build this wall and you have images you have strings attached to each one you're trying to scaffold like how
00:21:39
is information scaffolded you can use this you can poke a system and get the response back and then get
00:21:46
fill in the Contours like oh like this is what people think and feel in this moment of what the Norms are because
00:21:52
otherwise they're invisible so that's why when someone tells you a story about their behavior at the coffee shop and how some person was rude to someone or
00:22:00
whatever they're revealing to them that to everyone else in the conversation all the norm structures they have
00:22:05
and if you listen carefully you understand how they have scaffold information what Norms they've accepted which things are rejecting and where
00:22:11
they play in that hierarchy are there any correlations between the most successful people you've met or happy people you know you've met and their ability to embody and take on
00:22:23
these social constructs do you know what I'm saying yeah my mother is one of the happiest people I've ever met my life
00:22:29
and she plays exactly in the norm structure of the religion she's deeply religious she's still Mormon she thrives
00:22:35
in the Mormon Community everyone loves her she's delightfully happy and so my mother does not need to push boundaries
00:22:42
she doesn't need to explore the possibilities she she has a singular reality it works for her she's happy she's joyful she's a fantastic mother so
00:22:50
I guess there's like all these different archetypes of people who play in different spaces for me that wasn't
00:22:55
where I thrive you thrive my education has come from biographies and I've read I don't know over 100.
00:23:09
all throughout history and I love learning about people in their time and place who identify something impossibly
00:23:16
hard to see and do and they did both and when you do that it the algorithm of human behavior is so predictable
00:23:27
of defiance and hate and vitriol like it just goes through the same cycle every single time and so I have all these
00:23:34
models in my mind of people who've done these things and so I know when I do this myself I know what models to
00:23:40
anticipate I know how that naturally winds its way through Society and also how to fingerprint what things are
00:23:47
inevitable so you find a given thing you say what are the characteristics around this idea or invention or whatever
00:23:53
and then once you have it you know it's societal adoption is inevitable it does not matter what humans say doesn't matter if they Revolt doesn't matter if they bring the pitchforce that doesn't matter it's going to find its way through push all the way through
00:24:05
humanity and that's the thing is the what are the ideas you can't see what characteristics do they have and when they become inevitable and do you
00:24:11
consider yourself to be an instigator of new ideas if I were to make a Whimsical and flimty statement I would say I was born to
00:24:17
introduce these new ideas into society and what is that new idea uh it's that in the 21st century the only objective we have is don't die
00:24:33
don't die it's that simple but we're gonna we're all gonna die now you don't think so this is the thing so this is why it sounds silly because I was told everybody dies
00:24:48
the only thing inevitable in life is death are we driving past a graveyard the other day and I pointed and said great business that because yeah because
00:24:55
you know I think it was like it was like a it was a graveyard it was a um like a funeral home and I was like great
00:25:01
business yeah they'll never have a customer yeah okay so if you let's think about the
00:25:08
structure of why that statement may be the rallying Cry of the 21st century those two words
00:25:14
so we may think like we're inclined to think that uh genius or sophistication or whatever
00:25:21
is in this much broader complexity of statement it may be two words don't die so Galaxy's 13.8 years old Earth is 4.5
00:25:30
right something like that where baby steps away from creating super intelligence
00:25:37
we cannot we cannot model out what the future is going to be like in any way shape or form we do not have the intellectual capacity
00:25:49
to predict to model to anticipate we're blind it's an intelligence first period in US
00:25:58
in that situation the only thing we can play is don't die don't kill each other don't ruin our biosphere don't rule in Planet Earth
00:26:11
and don't underestimate aligning with AI the only objective of the future of our
00:26:17
existence we have to figure out how all Intelligence on this planet cooperates humans and the planet artificial intelligence it's this big tapestry of
00:26:29
goal alignment of cooperation that is the only task Humanity has ahead of us okay let's start with number one then yeah so the first one is don't die so I
00:26:41
guess yes or no question do you think it's possible for us in the in the short future to live forever yes okay right
00:26:48
I'm gonna go one step further back your health Journey before you came to that realization what did that look like in terms of were you a healthy young man were you were you drinking alcohol yeah
00:27:00
no I mean as a as a kid my mother did a did the best she could under the circumstances we were pretty poor she ground we She Made bread for us we also ate sugar cereal we put sugar on our
00:27:11
sugar sugar cereal we were in the sun constantly with no sunscreens we had excessive skin sun exposure
00:27:17
um you know we ate processed foods like it was just it was United the United States cultural environment in the 1980s
00:27:23
like we just were cemented in that cultural norm so I'd say you know not terribly healthy uh then 20 years of
00:27:31
Entrepreneurship depression bad relationship trying to live with religion I kind of destroyed myself body
00:27:37
and mind for 20 years and how do you feel about that now because I remember reading a quote where
00:27:42
you said it pains me to think about the damage you've done to your body up until that up until now it pained me really it
00:27:49
pains me to see all the damage I did to myself really pains you it does when I you know that's a phrase right but is there reality to that pain I
00:28:03
I feel like I have a relationship to my former self as though my former self were present I don't view it as a it's
00:28:09
gone by because in many ways when I'm reversing my aging when I'm becoming more healthy I'm moving back in time I'm moving back to a younger biological state so I'm occupying the person that
00:28:22
formerly occupied me and so I I have this relationship with time that is atypical or typically I would normally say like well that's just happened and now I just have to go forward but given where the science and technology is at I
00:28:34
do believe we can travel back in time now it's you know we're blueprint is showing the possibilities we're not there yet on doing this these dramatic things but I think it's coming and so yeah I I've literally feel pain
00:28:46
because I'm moving into that space you feel pain because you're moving into that space okay yeah that is yeah most of us consider the past to be gone exactly I don't I I feel like I
00:28:59
feel like it's recoverable and that I experience it so take me forward from that point then
00:29:05
I want to know when things started to change in terms of your health perspective and just do not die yeah
00:29:12
well I started taking care of myself after I saw Braintree in the divorce and all that kind of stuff I started paying
00:29:17
attention to my health more so than I ever had my entire life and it came back to this question you know what one thing do I do in existence
00:29:24
that would be meaningful not five things or six things like one thing that matters in the 25th Century and
00:29:30
I worked on I came up with this idea that basically the core of it is I can't trust myself to act act in my best interest and it's stem from
00:29:43
depression I knew my mind my mind was encouraging me to commit suicide on a Non-Stop basis yes yeah that's what chronic depression feels like is you
00:29:54
desperately want to commit suicide every moment of every day you just want relief from the awfulness and you can't you
00:30:00
cannot imagine feeling not depressed and so I I knew that I couldn't trust my mind when it
00:30:06
was doing these things and so then also I have this problem with food where I would feel so depressed and I would feel
00:30:11
stressed from the day from work with my kids and so it was my inability to stop myself
00:30:18
from overeating every single night and walking myself into an early grave so then I paired those things two things
00:30:23
together like okay first of all my brain's like hey why don't you commit suicide and two my body's like why don't you just eat yourself into Oblivion and
00:30:31
I couldn't stop myself I thought this is really weird that we humans are the most intelligent species on the planet yet I'm doing these
00:30:37
behaviors that are not in my best interest this is really weird and I can't stop but I'm totally helpless in doing it and start piecing together this
00:30:43
philosophy of like okay this is interesting we kind of treat planet Earth like we treat our bodies my
00:30:49
behavior is not too dissimilar from what Society is doing and I thought what is the larger
00:30:55
implication of the situation we humans have a problem of acting in our best interest is there alternative structure of
00:31:05
authority that could do a better job and that's when I really came up with the core of what blueprint is which is I
00:31:11
said okay instead of my mind doing this on a regular basis I'm going to measure every organ in my body
00:31:17
I'm going to ask it what it needs to be in its best space so my kidney and liver and heart and lungs you're going to take
00:31:23
the data look at scientific evidence and then create an algorithm and then I'm going to follow that algorithm
00:31:29
uh perfectly and so my body is going to call the shots not my mind and that was when it all kind of came together uh with trying to piece the other AI maybe the revolution
00:31:44
is we humans have done a wonderful job to arrive at this point maybe it's time for us to pass the
00:31:51
Reigns to other control systems that manage our long-term interests better and what are those long-term control systems that you believe can manage our
00:32:02
interests better I mean for example now like my my mind is not authorized to look at a menu in order it's not authorized to have a pizza party it's not authorized to just on the whim decide I want to have a cookie
00:32:14
my body is in charge my body reports this data it looks at scientific evidence and algorithm runs so I have
00:32:20
opted into an algorithm that takes better care of me than I can myself my mind can chirp and can Heckle from the bleachers
00:32:32
but it does not have the authority to make the decision but you must understand the mind is
00:32:37
doing that for a reason the mind is also concerned with survival it's not that uh
00:32:43
um cause harm to you that's not it's objective you know it wasn't that makes no sense
00:32:48
from a survival perspective that you'd have this enemy in your head so how do you reason why the mind is
00:32:54
telling you to do these things if we just let the data speak so let's just say uh we're looking at DNA
00:33:00
methylation patterns and it's these are this is data that shows how fast the body's aging so here's your speed of Aging so I take my former self and say what is the data show how fast am I
00:33:11
aging and how fast is disease progressing and what's my what's my likelihood of dying then and now
00:33:17
and you compare the two there's no comparison the system that's running me now so far out competes the
00:33:24
other version it's ridiculous so just from a so let's just um I'll go one layer deeper on this what I did is I I asked this broader question so we have
00:33:37
ai we have super Intelligence being created we have to figure out alignment how do we use AI so that we humans
00:33:43
continue to exist so we don't kill each other so the AI doesn't destroy everything like so we're just trying to survive
00:33:49
right Society to survive how would you possibly go about doing that problem and so I started thinking about this
00:33:55
alignment problem within me so I'm 35 trillion cells thereabouts maybe more how could I as an entity align my 35
00:34:03
trillion cells to cooperate and we're trying to do that with people with Society right you're trying to get
00:34:09
this huge number of things to cooperate and then I wanted to measure and say Okay what is perfect cooperation on the
00:34:14
objective of me slowing my speed of Aging and then I did hundreds of measurements and we said okay here's actually what
00:34:22
science can do in this moment with everything with diet and sleep and exercise all being perfect here's the
00:34:28
maximum amount of slowing speed of Aging for my 35 trillion sales to do anything above that I consider it to be
00:34:35
an act of violence now we use violence in society to we typically associate people beating each other like physical
00:34:41
acts of violence I expanded the term to capture my own behavior so if I did if I ate something or did
00:34:48
something that would increase my speed of Aging that was an act of violence against self because my 35 trillion sales were no
00:34:55
longer aligned it was like this one aberration be like hey I wanted this thing but it ruins 35 trillion cells I
00:35:00
wanted to pose a question we as a species are trying to figure out how to cooperate can I do that with me as a
00:35:05
single entity and that's what I've been trying to do goal alignment within Brian Johnson 35 trillion cells to a single objective
00:35:12
exist so why is the brain our adversary why is it being uncooperative with the longevity of the 35 million cells
00:35:26
I mean let's just say like let's just remove all story let's just say if we categorized as violence anything we did
00:35:34
as a species that brought death closer to us whether it be our personal death or whether it
00:35:40
be the Earth's death and we Quantified that and we said how much violence do we do we do in a self-destructive way what is that number huge
00:35:51
so if you when you look at that frame we are a self-destructive species now it goes back this idea that of death of like if you say death is inevitable for everybody
00:36:02
it doesn't matter if I commit these self-destructive acts like I'm gonna die anyway so like why do I care if it's 10
00:36:08
years earlier than normal whatever I'm 35 now and I've when I'm 70 I don't care if I live to 80 like that's how you
00:36:13
think so that's why this this whole death idea feeds the self-destruction because no
00:36:19
one cares if death is not inevitable you immediately come back to the thing to threatens the thing you care about the very most which is anything that threatens existence and so the society we have right now the
00:36:33
majority of the philosophies say be you know play by these rules and you get this afterlife
00:36:39
right they said death is inevitable but we're all playing for this later game and so everyone feels fine in this
00:36:45
colossal self-destruction if you take that away and then you say you can live in this
00:36:50
life it's an entirely different game and that's why the 21st century the singular
00:36:55
revolution could be don't die because it it flips the philosophical structure of
00:37:01
society on its head and this will lead you to project blueprint which is what a project blueprint is an attempt
00:37:13
at don't die at every layer of society individually collectively with AI and the planet so you trying to reverse your your age or are you trying not to die are you trying both off
00:37:27
and so the same thing is true like just like I've done blueprint with me planet Earth is the body
00:37:33
so you would approach the same problem you would measure Earth with millions of measurements at some interval you'd use
00:37:39
scientific evidence to say what is the appropriate sustainable biosphere of coral reef of ocean of temperature in
00:37:45
the in the world of ocean acidity of all the different parts of our biosphere and you apply the scientific evidence
00:37:51
and that creates the closed loop system to say this is how you don't die okay so let's focusing again on do not die which was actually one of the Only Rule in my first company now it feels
00:38:03
like it has new meaning we wrote it on the wallet when we first moved into the office we just wrote one rule here and we just wrote do not die that's great we
00:38:10
said it as a joke but you know maybe you're under something yeah when you think about do not die what are the things that stand the greatest chance of killing us in order of
00:38:21
priority like there's basic things on a day-to-day basis like driving is among the highest risk factors we do all of us do on a databases so every time I get into a car I have a ritual where I say
00:38:32
driving I say it out loud driving is the most dangerous thing I do as a reminder every time I get in the
00:38:39
car don't text don't be on your phone like pay attention to the rise of the road because like you you forget every time you jump in the car you're so tempted to like do all these things that imperil your life so you say that out
00:38:50
loud every time I'd love to watch you drive where you can drive me whenever as well because I feel like I trust you to focus
00:38:57
on the road so driving is number one of things that pose a really statistically High threat of mortality what else yeah
00:39:04
I mean there are so people have built nice statistical models that that uh show like risk of death like insurance companies of course like they do that um
00:39:14
I'm really after the cultural norms yeah that we have built a society addicted to addiction we're all addicted
00:39:26
so you you just think about this from a 25th Century perspective you put a human
00:39:32
Like Us in an environment and you encircle them with dozens of fast food chains dozens
00:39:38
of uh stores selling sugary drinks of junk food of porn of infinite scroll of Netflix binging alcohol smoking gambling nicotine right like you like your
00:39:54
masturbation not yeah like there you go like your list is and then you say like okay human
00:39:59
on your own with your own willpower resist this and then around them you've got the power of our Godlike Powers pointing at the individual with the only
00:40:10
objective is to getting that person addicted to their thing their app their food their show their whatever
00:40:18
everything's point in the individual the individual is like I'm overwhelmed I can't sleep you know
00:40:24
like I don't feel well I I can't exercise I don't have any time we were just sick as a society and it's
00:40:32
because we've structurally built this around this yeah it's a it's kind of a disaster for us in the moment where
00:40:39
we're trying to muster up soberness of thought of how do we navigate these simultaneous
00:40:47
existential risks we Face how do we not destroy our biosphere how do we align with AI how do we get humans not engage in nuclear war or bio Warfare or
00:40:58
whatever it's um we're just we have really serious challenges to solve and we're
00:41:04
all impaired it makes you have a great deal of empathy for The Human Experience when you you frame as we've taken a human being you know baby is born and then we
00:41:15
surround them with fast food chains and sugar and all these things that are highly highly addictive and then we say
00:41:21
to them be healthy do your best yeah you know don't don't kill yourself and you know yeah good luck good luck it's sad
00:41:28
and then it's it's I say empathy because you have when you frame it like that I go no wonder people are struggling you
00:41:35
know with sleepless nights obesity cardiovascular diseases porn addictions drug addictions
00:41:42
you know because we've manipulated the I'm not going to try and pretend I'm a neuroscientist but we've manipulated the chemicals in their brain yeah to control them for often for you know
00:41:53
corporate greed and other things that's right you mentioned sleep and you point at this as being really
00:41:59
foundational to Health yeah when I sit here with these you know psychologists and health
00:42:06
experts and doctors and heart surgeons and brain surgeons they always point to sleep as they all point at sleep as
00:42:11
being foundational the other day you did a tweet about your sleep do you know what I'm talking about
00:42:17
screenshot yeah I think it was whoop right yeah that's right and it showed that you'd had a hundred
00:42:23
percent sleep for six months straight four months straight now four months straight 99 Brazil yes 100 for four
00:42:31
months 99 the other two months I'm going for a six month 100 streak why is sleep so important
00:42:38
because you you cite it in your work as being one of the the most foundational things I think you actually called it the most important in one one interview
00:42:44
yeah I mean if if you and I were gonna make a list of like the things that are most influential in our lives in how
00:42:55
we think about and feel about life I would put number one asleep nothing changes my conscious existence more than a poor night sleep or a bad or
00:43:07
they're a good night's sleep I agree I've become incredibly obsessed with my sleep some people's obsessions they become a little bit unhealthy but mine I think is healthy because it certainly
00:43:17
moved my life forward in every metrical area that I care about um let's go on and go in and sleep then
00:43:24
so what do you do to achieve this month over month perfect sleep because when I saw that I thought oh my [ __ ] god like I use whoop as well as you can see and yeah if I can
00:43:35
trust your data to mine yeah you know sometimes I'm having like 24 recovery 50 recovery if I go to a hotel room then
00:43:43
it's even worse I flew out here to La I had three the first three days my sleep was awful the fourth day it was fine
00:43:48
what are you doing yeah um yeah I'm so glad you have that shared experience for those who do try to track
00:43:56
it and even those with whoop many don't realize how hard it is the most important thing is I I've built my life around sleep
00:44:06
now that is the exact opposite of cultural norms where sleep is the thing that gets pushed around
00:44:13
so if you want to go out with friends delay your bedtime if you want if you need to finish a work project or school
00:44:19
project if you want to hang out and watch your new show just dropped you want to watch a few episodes we push
00:44:25
sleep around from our earliest of days like it's always the thing that can be compromised and I made a rule that sleep
00:44:32
happens every single night at the same time no exceptions ever I mean that must come at a cost it does come at a cost what is the cost I mean
00:44:43
that cost is substantially less now because I've made the hard decisions and uh so it's no longer
00:44:49
getting there is hard but once you do that and it's the norm it becomes much easier you just have to make the life changes so that's the first big one then
00:44:55
I did like a bunch of small things like for example my last meal of the day is at 11AM
00:45:02
sorry well your last meal of the day is at 11AM yes I eat between 6 a.m and 11 A.M okay and so then by the time I go to
00:45:08
bed at 8 30 I've got you know eight plus hours of digestion so I sleep best on an
00:45:15
empty stomach now some some people don't like that they feel pain they do much better sleeping towards night but I ran
00:45:21
a few hundred experiments of a time to eat how much to eat what kinds of foods to eat what kind of exercise protocols
00:45:28
I've trialled hundreds of times and I found a protocol that worked for me where when I do this and I lay down
00:45:34
before bed my resting heart rate is around 45. if I get that I know I'm going to have a
00:45:40
new perfect night sleep if it's elevated at a 53 or 54 because of like a few events that could trigger to a higher I know I'm gonna have a I'm going to struggle to hit like deep and REM goals
00:45:52
and I might be a little more Restless I'll still hit my 100 objective but it's not going to be as the same level of quality as if I hit something else
00:45:59
so I know all the little little teeny tiny tweaks to get this to be perfect every night I asked you a second ago I
00:46:05
want to make sure I get announced to this I said this must come at a cost yeah what is the cost
00:46:10
so my bedtime is at 8 30 because that's where the data led me I tried 11 10 39 I tried all the
00:46:17
different variations since this just worked um so anything that happens past 8 30 I don't participate in and so sometimes my
00:46:24
friends are doing things past 8 30 that I want to do but I don't do them so I miss out on
00:46:30
certain social events now my friends have been cool enough where they'll do things to accommodate my time frame so
00:46:36
do something in the late afternoon where I can do things with them and hang out and have fun and still make my bedtime and so my friends have been and family
00:46:42
have been great to adapt to allow me to participate in community while still doing this
00:46:47
so I've been I've been experimenting as well I mean I can have to say to tell you I've been experimenting feels like
00:46:54
I'm not going to say my experiments but what I've I've got a bunch of hypotheses around my sleep one of the big ones as
00:46:59
well as the room temperature so during summer in the UK because most houses in the UK don't have air conditioning
00:47:06
because we don't expect the Sun so it's a surprise yeah um through those four weeks where we
00:47:11
have sunshine I don't my sleep is awful I'm sweating in bed what would you say about temperature and also I've got a
00:47:19
broken blind in the room yeah so you know at 6am or whatever the light starts pouring in what would you say about all those factors I agree uh temperature plays a significant role light does a
00:47:31
sound yeah whether you have a partner in bed with you or not yeah I'm going to talk about this yeah
00:47:37
because I actually speaking of Simon cynic last night about this we went to dinner and I was talking to him about having sat with Matthew Walker and we
00:47:43
discussed I think Matthew Walker Donna quote him inaccurately but he said when there's divorce and couples break up 15
00:47:51
of the reason is attributed to sleep I.E them compromising each other's sleep what do you think about sleeping in bed with somebody else it's a it's a hard topic because a lot
00:48:04
of people don't have the luxury of sleeping in different rooms yeah when somebody wants to have good sleep there are some things they can't control like trying to go to bed at a certain time is something they have some control over
00:48:16
they need to adjust Lifestyles and family and stuff like that but sometimes that relationship but so people who do have the fortunate
00:48:23
circumstances to be in separate rooms it is substantially better because trying to negotiate with another person their bedtime their sleep hygiene
00:48:35
is really difficult and wake events are very costly once you go uh once you get woken up and then go back to sleep is very hard so it's just extremely challenging when you've got to
00:48:46
coordinate with another human so do you ever sleep in bed with someone else no what about hanky-panky no you have no sex uh not after 8 30.
00:49:00
okay so you gotta do like Morning Glory yeah I mean so these are these are the kinds of things like you know uh so I'm single yeah in circumstances where I've tried to date
00:49:12
the first thing I do is I give them a list of 10 things like here's all the things you're gonna hate about me and
00:49:17
it's gonna make me an impossible partner for you and like you know those are like it's a
00:49:22
big deal what is on the list give me the list I mean so uh sleep is one thing you know I go to bed at 8 30. uh my food regimen is another now I do compromise on foods like if we if we go
00:49:34
out with friends we'll have dinner time then I will save up you know a certain number of calories and I'll eat
00:49:40
something at the restaurant some steamed vegetables or something like that so I do try to be normal and also when I'm
00:49:45
out with people nothing makes people feel more uncomfortable than an empty plate and think why what are you doing and are you
00:49:52
on a fast protocol are you in a juice cleanse and so I just try to blend into the environment like there's no
00:49:57
questions everyone can enjoy being present though I try to do those things um but other yeah other things for example like my desire to speak I I'm not a talkative
00:50:10
person I don't do small talk so my son and I have a protocol at the house where there's no exchange like
00:50:16
good morning how are you you know like I'm deep in thought like my morning my I go to bed early I wake up early and I
00:50:23
have these four or five hours of concentrated thought where I can think about these really big pictures and try
00:50:29
to pull myself out of my situation and just be as sober as possible like what is really happening to the best of my abilities and that's actually probe myself to these these deep levels and I
00:50:41
you can get knocked off so fast just like a little teeny interaction hey how are you doing how was your sleep you
00:50:48
have to activate this mode of like I'm gonna be a nice person I'm going to engage with you I'm going to listen to
00:50:53
you and just shifting that knocks me off and so there's with the path that I've chosen that I really care about achieving these objectives I break all these social norms
00:51:07
and it's offensive to a lot of people you know that it's just not not an acceptable situation for a lot of people
00:51:12
that's another instance though where someone would say oh he's weird yeah exactly right and when you so when I was
00:51:18
just saying this I absolutely am mapped to everyone listening to this being like that dude it was awful I would never
00:51:25
want to be with him oh what a boar or like I'd imagine I can see all the comments on social media now like dozens
00:51:31
and dozens of people ripping me to be like oh that dude and like making their meanest comment I know that's going to trigger it it's like throughout this whole thing of course like people are gonna grab what I say and they're gonna
00:51:41
try to just dissect me and rip me apart for all the things I violate that they don't want to exist
00:51:48
so it's a constrained romantic relationship we're gonna have if we're we're me and you together Brian because he can't
00:51:55
speak in the morning I can't speak to you in the morning can't really do any hanky pancakes so I mean there's kind of
00:52:02
a small window for our relationship to exist we're gonna have to get a lot done yeah like three or four hours yeah we're
00:52:09
gonna have to have sex and then we're gonna have to resolve all of our problems and then I'm gonna have to offload yeah what else is is important
00:52:15
there tell me about your sleep regime so the things you do just before sleep we know you don't eat near sleep anything
00:52:22
else that's really important uh I'd say let me take them off yes go to bed same time every night no exceptions temperature controlled room and or
00:52:32
mattress what temperature uh I currently am at I think 71. I go to bed at 78 and then Fahrenheit and then I sleep at 71 thereabouts then I come up for REM 73. so temperature and then
00:52:45
sound sound yep so uh aware of potential sources of noise that could wake you up
00:52:56
so if you um if you're in a noisy environment of sirens like a big city environment or
00:53:03
dogs barking or something being aware because sound will wake you up and so you're really trying to minimize it every time you wake up if you need to do something to limit
00:53:14
what consider your ears or doing white noise or whatever you're doing then identifying when you eat and what
00:53:21
you eat for example I know from my experience in trying new things if I were to sometimes I would try an almond
00:53:28
crust piece of pizza like this is years ago when I'm really trying to start figuring stuff out that would wreck my sleep
00:53:35
flower of any type wrecks my sleep it elevates my resting heart rate into the high 50s and I know I'm going to have about 50 percent less deep sleep and it's all these little teeny tiny
00:53:48
understandings of how a particular kind of food is going guaranteed direct my sleep or even three ounces of red wine
00:53:56
anytime after noon guaranteed to devastate my deep sleep and so understanding how food intake affects that and then I know I try to have an
00:54:08
hour a wind down time every night if I go to bed if I work right up to when I go to bed
00:54:15
I will ruminate all night long on that topic and so it will feel like I never actually go to sleep
00:54:22
because I'm always just in that light sleep ruminating on this problem but weirdly I found that if I follow my
00:54:28
entire protocol right before I go to bed now I'll assign my brain a problem every night before I go to bed and I now have
00:54:35
my very best thoughts in life in my sleep my brain figures things out much more efficiently in my sleep than I do when
00:54:42
I'm awake the now's become an asset to me uh versus before it was just a terrible experience and if if I you know I I if I can I
00:54:53
sometimes I gotta be honest sometimes I have snacks before bed you know which we're amongst friends here I can
00:54:59
be honest sometimes you know you know sometimes it just gets about because I feel that because I work quite late into
00:55:05
the night and then I get to 9 or 10 p.m and I'll be sat there thinking I've not eaten yet and I've got this pain in my
00:55:11
stomach so getting just going to bed on with the pain in my stomach feels quite difficult so I'll just you know
00:55:17
order something on one of these little apps yeah yeah don't tell anybody because you know um but they're not and
00:55:22
then I eat it and you're right 10 seconds it feels great and then after that I feel I feel like crap yeah you
00:55:28
have to pay the price the whole next day is there anything that I you you can eat later in the day or you can eat at
00:55:34
dinner time that has a smaller negative adverse consequence in your sleep is it just like vegetables and stuff
00:55:40
vegetables are fine vegetables and this is for me I need to clarify what I do is for me other people thrive on other
00:55:46
things so this is just a data point people can use in their mind that you fine-tune all these different things but I think the data is interesting I've
00:55:52
never seen anyone with a four month streak of perfect sleep I'm in the 98 99.6 percentile of recovery too so it's
00:56:00
not just my sleep quality which people often say oh you can just gain that not a big deal people who know really know
00:56:06
that's not true but then also optimizing if you're HIV and your your uh respiration rate my recovery is also
00:56:12
99.6 percentile so I'm hitting all the markers on the highest quality possible performance in sleep and my body's recovering at the maximum capacity and so it's good data that I'm
00:56:25
not just making stuff up the data shows I'm potentially best in world on this measurement profile or among so it's interesting that it's a reasonable way for someone to
00:56:36
contemplate what they might do in their life do you think there's anyone better in the world that's sleeping than you probably there's there's probably some
00:56:44
people may I I wonder if all the years of ruining myself if it has a carryover effect like I just can't make up entirely for all the things I did I wonder if that's the case
00:56:57
and I wonder if people who haven't done that naturally sleep better than me and that I have to try extra hard now because I'm compensating for all the damage I did to myself I don't know for those in my certain circumstances I
00:57:09
don't think anyone tries harder to sleep than me hey John V you mentioned that why is
00:57:15
that important and what did it what what is it yeah it's a heart rate variability and it's a representation of your
00:57:22
nervous system there's two parts your parasynthetic nervous system and your uh it's like your autonomic number system and you're trying to basically tether between being chill
00:57:35
and being in fight or flight and so when you're stressed your body's like all right like we're
00:57:40
ramped up we've called all the resources to do this job but you can't be in that high State Long you need to be in a
00:57:47
relaxed State as well so you're trying to bring the parasynthetic nervous system on in time and to relax the
00:57:53
sympathetic nervous system and so the HIV is representation of are you chill or are you stressed having a high HRV is
00:58:01
better than having a low HRV I worked very hard at it it's been one of the hardest markers we've had to move I I
00:58:09
had a meaningful increase in my HRV over the past 500 Days I was I started I was believing the ER
00:58:16
like the mid-30s range and I'm now up in the low 60s on average so uh good gains but still not anywhere
00:58:25
close where I want to be uh I thought where I thought we'd be at this point it's been really really hard to move and
00:58:30
you hate heart rate ver variability right yes is that what it's called and what is that as in it's the gaps between
00:58:37
your heartbeats or something exactly yes the interval between yeah so it measures the interval between your heart beats
00:58:43
and how much that varies or that's right okay so you want High you want so if my heart rate variability is like 120 I think great it's definitely above 100
00:58:56
depending on you know when I've done that I'm jealous well yeah that's maybe that's one thing I can teach you about
00:59:03
but but what is that 120 what I've always wondered I see it and I know that that's better oh milliseconds yeah
00:59:10
so 120 milliseconds variance between the heartbeats and there's a whole bunch of ways if you get into the actual math you can measure them you can actually do this calculation a number of different ways
00:59:22
it gets really Technical and sophisticated but the general understanding is you want a higher number you want a bigger
00:59:27
number you do you do some things before bedtime to improve your heart rate variability
00:59:33
uh I do I've tried several devices I've used sense8 which is a vibrational thing in the chest I've used pulsetto which is
00:59:40
a vibration on the vagus nerve here I've used neural stim which is on the left tragus
00:59:46
uh here anything any of them work a little bit here and there none sustain I mean I given the amount of effort I put into my health and wellness I sh I
00:59:58
would like to think I'd be over a hundred in my HRV can't it doesn't move it's just a really
01:00:04
hard marker I wonder if all the decades where I was depressed out of my mind and really stressed out of everything if I just ruined myself to degrees that are hard to come back from
01:00:15
so we've been trying to find something more advanced that would do something outside of diet and exercise and routine
01:00:22
and sleep we haven't found it yet it's crazy that one of the most pivotal moments in my life was when I put my
01:00:28
whoop on and the founder told me about this how important that HRV marker is how much of an indicator it is of overall health you know cracking with my life had a glass of wine one day I wake
01:00:42
up the next morning yeah and it's flashing red and I click on it and it's like did you have some alcohol last
01:00:48
night and I'm thinking oh my God yeah like genuinely that moment was was when I realized that these choices I make however small I think they might be especially with alcohol have my heart
01:00:59
notices and it's saying to me you're either it said you're either stressed you're either sick or you had some alcohol last
01:01:06
night yeah I thought I don't like those three things being in a category together alcohol what'd you think of it
01:01:13
I used to drink three ounces every morning with breakfast you used to drink three three ounces of
01:01:19
alcohol every morning with breakfast I enjoyed drinking alcohol I enjoyed drinking the wine for breakfast for
01:01:25
breakfast because I had to create the longest time period between my sleep to avoid it negatively affecting my sleep
01:01:31
okay but then I got rid of it because it was too expensive from a caloric perspective it was 72 calories for the
01:01:37
three ounces and I couldn't fit it in with my calorie budget so what do you think of it in terms of
01:01:43
um in terms of longevity I think the science says in moderation is fine I just I don't Rick it at all ever anymore and you've only really been been
01:01:55
following this protocol for a couple of years now right yeah I mean my I guess I
01:02:02
I really do understand myself as on a singular mission for intelligent existence to thrive that is what I am that is what I'm doing
01:02:17
that's what I'm pursuing nothing else matters to me the question the ultimate question I think in you know you just had all these people are going to say I'm weird or
01:02:27
whatever else there's this ultimate question because you're very very clearly Mission driven and there's always a cost much of what I
01:02:35
do here when I meet Extraordinary People is to understand the cost in fact the reason I start this podcast is because
01:02:40
we we let's call the diver CEO is because we see the CEO stuff but we don't see the diary that's why it's
01:02:46
called what it is and it started as me just showing my diary and I shed everything from masturbation my mental struggles everything my issues with my
01:02:52
family I shared it all to to put the cost out there to the world cost of my mission my calling my Pursuit
01:02:58
the thing that was dragging me um the ultimate question becomes are you happy never more so in my entire life
01:03:13
unquestionably and what does that mean I've never felt more fulfilled I've never felt more stable I've never felt a more expansive Consciousness I've never
01:03:25
felt more free I've never felt more bold I've never in my entire life been this alive and you you experienced the antithesis
01:03:38
of Happiness right you experienced I mean maybe some people would argue that it's something else but you experience the bottom of
01:03:44
the crevice of depression you know what that felt like the voices in your head that were
01:03:50
telling you to do things the unthinkable actions of suicide what goes on in your head now what are the same voices saying it's all play I'm
01:04:03
I've never had more fun most of my life has just been a grind it's like doing the things to achieve the objective because that's what the societal role play says to do
01:04:18
and that what I'm doing now I'm not doing this for anyone's expectations I'm not doing this to achieve anyone's acceptance this is the game I've selected to play I
01:04:30
don't care what anyone says about it sincerely I just feel free when was your last Dark Day
01:04:41
it was about something I can't yet talk about I wish I could I will be able to soon I respect that yeah yeah but I guess
01:04:54
it's uh it's like Mike my answer is a genuine uh in time this will be a good story
01:05:04
but outside of that yeah what are the things that oh and are there things that get you down yeah I I was um recently I
01:05:11
was uh pretty bothered the the hate that comes my way is energizing to me it's thrilling uh
01:05:23
when my father did something with me publicly with this plasma transfusions the internet kind of had their way with him you know making fun of him and saying rude things and mean things that
01:05:34
really got to me you're like hurl up my way cool but I my father was courageous enough to do this thing publicly and put himself out there
01:05:47
and he just got torn to shreds and it it made me feel very sad and ashamed of humanity like my my seven-year-old dad you know
01:06:02
like he's not picking a fight with somebody you know so much I don't know I guess maybe I've always felt like a
01:06:17
protector of my dad maybe why uh it's just kind of how our roles developed I suppose you know when when he was in a state of
01:06:33
need I was in a stage of ability to give started off When We Were Young when I was young you talked about plasma
01:06:46
I I saw the image on your Instagram when I was waiting for you in there I was going through your Instagram and looking at all the captions on your posts and
01:06:52
stuff and looking and there was that photo of you your son who looks very much like you by the way and your father beautiful photo of you all of you
01:06:58
wearing vests and this was one of the the sort of experiments you did you had a hypothesis
01:07:03
the hypothesis was yeah yeah we as a team we have uh scoured every scientific study ever done on longevity
01:07:15
and lifespan and we've ranked prioritized all of them and we filtered out like which one your animal models
01:07:21
human models and we try to decide which thing to do and why and plasma exchanges surfaced as a potential option and
01:07:28
people were doing it for cognitive decline so it came up where I was talking to my dad and he said hey Brian
01:07:33
I need I want you to know something that when you begin experiencing cognitive decline which I have you don't know
01:07:40
said I always thought that if I'm starting to lose my mind I'm going to pick it up be like Oh I'm not as sharp as I used to be but you don't know it's
01:07:45
invisible to you which makes sense and so he said I've been on blueprint for a couple months it's come back so I'm aware of how fast I was losing my mental
01:07:54
acuity I'm back so in that conversation I said dad you know I've been looking at
01:07:59
these plasma exchanges and there's some interesting studies going on right now with column decline Alzheimer's and things like that that are showing
01:08:05
interesting results how the science is still emergent we're not sure it's going to work but if you're interested in
01:08:10
doing this I'd be more than happy to donate my plasma to you that's how it happened and so then I tell myself is oh
01:08:18
yes we have blood in our body and plasma so you take the Blood Out We're Half Blood half plasma if you take blood out you spin it up it separates into yellow stuff which is plasma and then red stuff
01:08:29
which is blood and so they're just different things in the platform so it's basically taking plasma of the body and
01:08:34
so I gave my father a leader of my plasma but I was talking to my about this to my son like hey I may give up a
01:08:40
liter of positive to my dad and so my son is like cool can I be involved it's like all right so is that this really
01:08:46
organic thing around my father and so it was uh a lot of people learned about this and then they they immediately imagine like I'm in a dungeon drinking my son's blood and I'm like harvesting
01:09:00
his organs and the reality was it was a very is a Whimsical fun you know heartwarming thing that our family was was discussing and so we did it and there was some some sort of
01:09:11
efficacy shown in mice or something wasn't there yeah yeah there's so this the evidence is like not bad it's not
01:09:17
terribly persuasive it's emergent so it's not like we were going in there and realized thinking that we had a slam dunk it was like it's interesting it's
01:09:24
safe so let's give it a shot and it didn't really work so you've on me on you yeah which makes sense I mean so I'm chronologically 45. many of my
01:09:35
phenotypic markers are in their 20s right of course so my donor was 19 and so it makes sense the age differential given I'm so tuned it would make sense
01:09:47
that you would see a big change but for my father maybe because there's a much bigger difference between his health
01:09:53
status and my status and a different age range too did was there a difference in your father or did you not measure uh
01:09:58
we're still waiting for the results oh okay yeah his subjective reporting was that he felt uh phenomenal but we really
01:10:05
want to see the data and you also need to probably do more of these right one is is not enough you probably do it
01:10:10
successively so it was it ended up being even though we approached it as my father's cognitive decline and we were
01:10:17
looking at it through a medical perspective it ended up being a family bonding experience where we my father
01:10:22
left the church when I was young he was ostracized I left a church I was ostracized by my children and their
01:10:27
family so in my estimation it was we were divided by the Mind United by biology this goes back to blueprint
01:10:35
which is are there control systems that help us cooperate not the Mind our mind we want to create tribes we want to fight with each other
01:10:45
and we want to find good and evil and all that sort of thing biology doesn't I mean biology maybe is a different
01:10:51
control system and so we were just trying to optimize health and so you go back to that system what are the control systems running
01:10:57
Humanity running our families running you and me running Society I thought it was beautiful because it was an
01:11:03
experience my father and son and I never imagined we'd have in our entire lives and it ended up being a spectacular
01:11:09
experience with the family that we really appreciated as you were speaking I was thinking about something I've just written in the book that I've been
01:11:15
writing um one of the pages is when I discovered my father's cigarettes and it was this
01:11:21
like earth-shattering moment in my life because I was suddenly haunted by this feeling that my father was going to die yeah
01:11:26
you know because as a kid you know cigarettes are bad everyone tells you that and then when you find out your father is smoking them when I was like
01:11:32
14 years old it was this kind of crisis in me that my father's gonna die um and I was I was thinking about what your father went through and how that might have introduced the concept of death to
01:11:45
you at a young age then I was also observing how much he means to you and every word you say about him and your protectiveness over him and I was
01:11:50
wondering if there's some kind of Link there um how did you reconcile with it trying to get him to stop smoking yeah
01:11:57
yeah there you go at all costs what'd you do I think I cried about it a few times but
01:12:02
I think I just made him feel bad about it right yeah maybe that's like the best tool you can use when you're 14. what about you uh I'd write him letters really yeah
01:12:14
every week I'd write him a letter tell him tell him how much he means to me um I'm thinking about him
01:12:20
yeah in the hope that that he it would give him the power he needed to overcome his addiction
01:12:31
did you think about his him dying at that age did had the concept of death crossed your mind I just wanted a dad yeah I wanted
01:12:43
I wanted him to be a part of my life that explains why being a dad might say much to you now probably yeah yeah um I I noticed there's something on
01:12:54
the chair over there um and I'm I'm actually starving it's it's uh just gone for a clock and I
01:13:01
haven't eaten today but you were very kind in bringing me some food so I want to talk about I want to talk about food
01:13:08
um Jack could you bring me the food please and you can tell me what you've brought me to eat presumably this is what you
01:13:14
eat that's right good thank you okay so you've you've brought me a meal today I did just for anyone that's looking I'll try and tilt it up so people can see
01:13:25
um if anyone's watching on YouTube or Spotify where you can get the video you can see what's in these bowls and you've bought me two little buckets of pills
01:13:34
yeah and there's the drink here what is what is this food this is this is the answer if you ask the body
01:13:46
what do you want to eat to be an ideal Health this is the answer that it generated
01:13:51
so this is not to say that is the only food you could eat it is a version where you could eat and so the my daily
01:13:57
caloric intake is uh 2 250 calories a day every calorie has to fight for its life there's not a single calorie in my entire life protocol that exists for any
01:14:10
reason other than serving an objective in the body so dish number one is called super veggie it's broccoli cauliflower
01:14:17
black lentils garlic ginger hemp seeds and over a month if you if you were to do this with me you would eat around 70 pounds of vegetables per month 70 pounds of vegetables per month
01:14:30
wow wow I think we also have in their extra virgin olive oil and chocolate yeah I can taste like cacao like dark
01:14:41
chocolate so we I pair the chocolate in here it's an unexpected pairing the way we think about this is
01:14:49
you could say chocolate is good for you which might lead you to eat a Snickers bar the more precise way of thinking
01:14:55
about it is you want dark chocolate untouched tests for heavy metals and has a high polyphenol count
01:15:01
if you don't do all five layers to qualify the value of the chocolate you have an inferior chocolate and
01:15:07
nutritional value for your body so everything we do at blueprint uses that frame of reference of
01:15:13
understanding everything a full stack way of how do you serve the body's objectives in the maximal way that is
01:15:21
a mushroom covered in chocolate how fun so interesting yeah those oh those are mataki mushrooms mataki mushrooms this is a normal broccoli isn't it that's right
01:15:37
you didn't put anything on it no no salt I use potassium chloride new salt and we've got some broccoli in there so is that is that that dish explained that's explained okay and then this is
01:15:49
looks like dessert to me nutty pudding it is many people consider it to be a dessert it's
01:15:55
macadamia nuts one that's flaxseed sunflower relation pomegranate juice berries and pea
01:16:01
protein and is this the entire meal you'd have in one day there's one more dish which
01:16:07
we don't have which varies day to day okay but this is really it I have three tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil
01:16:14
ones in here and I have an avocado and a third meal a day and this drink here that you've given me make sure you stir that up okay that's the Green Giant so the way that it works is I'll wake up in
01:16:24
the morning first thing I'll do is drink the Green Giant take 60 pills work out for an hour then eat super veggie wait
01:16:30
for an hour eat nutty pudding wait for one more hour and eat my third meal of the day and then I'm finished for the day
01:16:36
how many pills will you take in one day currently 111. wow and you take 60 of them in the morning that's right wow
01:16:47
wow that's an interesting taste I gotta say it doesn't taste amazing you know it's not like something I'd I'd find in
01:16:53
a like a juice bar or something there's a little bit of a aftertaste to it that's not not fantastic and um I mean I like vegetables so I like most of this stuff the chocolate I think
01:17:05
is a bit of a spanner in the works because it's not like a chocolate that you'd get it's not milk chocolate or a
01:17:10
mask that's right right it's um a very very dark bitter taste which is a strange thing to add to a mushroom yeah you could also put the dark chocolate in the Nutty pudding or
01:17:22
you can have it independently I find it's fun because it's a new experience for people to try so it's really an
01:17:27
optional thing oh this is nice this nasty pudding is really nice that's really nice that's really really nice um so what are your principles for eating then Clark
01:17:39
you talked about um calorific restriction how important is that because I'm I a lot and I don't count I just see yeah and I'm like you know am I
01:17:50
heaviest I'm 15 Stone fives which is what about 100 kilograms or something so I'm quite heavy
01:17:56
and I eat and I go to the gym every day but I eat a lot I'm kind of out of control it has compelling evidence the caloric
01:18:02
restriction has compelling evidence that it's one of the most effective longevity interventions that can be done
01:18:10
and what are your sort of why do nutritional principles that people can very easily introduce into their lives
01:18:16
uh it's I have this exp I have this experience where I learned how to fly an airplane I became a pilot and we get up
01:18:23
at altitude and I would use my hands and try to fly the airplane and I'd go left right up down I try to be perfectly on
01:18:28
the attitude indicator of maintaining exactly the altitude which I was pegged at and the direction and then I would engage autopilot and it
01:18:36
would this plane would just sit up straight and it would be perfectly pegged it was so far superior to my
01:18:41
ability to do it and that's kind of how I think about my diet is if I use my mind I kind of ping pong around life
01:18:47
eating this and that like I hear this thing that there and I hear this thing there and I kind of do whatever's available to me if you think about
01:18:54
putting your body on autopilot I call it my autonomous self Let the Body report out evidence algorithm in and it just runs this is
01:19:01
the result this is autopilot for my body and so every single thing we do is tracked in the body every pill has to
01:19:07
justify its existence if it can't be measured and Quantified we don't do it and so it's a system a closed loop
01:19:12
system that has an algorithm running me which is so far superior to my mind which is going to do it's going to add
01:19:18
the cookie to the order it's going to eat blank because of whatever I'm presuming you're not going to take
01:19:25
these backs to this [Laughter] those are all the pills you take in one day that's right 100 120 odd pills in a day almost yeah 111 yeah that big one
01:19:42
right there you can see that guy right there this one here yeah Jesus Lord Jesus what is in these pearls
01:19:49
a lot of things you would expect Basics like vitamin D and C uh more advanced things like alpha ketoglutarate or metformin or carbos or other things like
01:20:00
that it spans from basic and common to some more advanced drugs a lot of my friends when they when I well one of my friends in particular when he knew that I was speaking to you
01:20:10
he asked me about NAD Plus that's obviously something that's become quite popular in the longevity culture
01:20:16
what's your perspective on NAD plus yeah he's trying to modulate those levels in
01:20:22
his body and there's nice age graphs so people to enter this into an understandable frame people uh it's not
01:20:30
commonly understood what a biological age is versus a chronological age somebody can be chronologically I'm 45
01:20:35
but I can biologically be different I could be either 30 or 35 or 55 or 70 according to the markers so in levels of
01:20:42
NAD intracellular NAD in particular there are certain levels that would Peg you at age 18 age 30 age 50 because they
01:20:49
reliably go down with age and so when you supplement to try to change these you're trying to Peg yourself to a more
01:20:55
useful State because it's a energy the body runs on and so what I did is I could people in the longevity Community
01:21:02
do have a lot of questions about how you increase your intracellular entity levels and there's a big debate you do
01:21:07
NR or nmn I think there's been this big debate and everyone's always wants to fight about it and so I trialed both I
01:21:14
did 90 days on NR I did 90 days on nmn and I measured my intracellular blood levels throughout and I showed both were basically effective in doing the objective so I was able to Peg my
01:21:26
intercellular entity at the 18 year old mark on both supplements oh wow so it basically doesn't matter just get it measured and just titrate your dose to make sure you're getting what you need nice and I want to I really want to make
01:21:38
sure because I feel like you're if I'm never gonna you know meet someone who I feel like is so well versed in
01:21:44
how the things I put in my mouth have an impact on my biological age um so what advice would you give to me about say that you could I'm a blank canvas and I'm gonna I'm gonna believe
01:21:55
everything you say my objective is to increase my health span and to not age poorly yeah what would you say about the
01:22:02
things that I put in my mouth give me some rules do exactly what I've published okay I'm
01:22:07
gonna make it dead simple for you I say tongue-in-cheek the blueprint is the best health protocol
01:22:14
ever developed prove me wrong with your data if someone has a better if someone can achieve better biomarkers with their protocol it's going to be amazing for me
01:22:26
and everyone else because now we have a comparison but right now the tricky thing for someone like yourself is if
01:22:31
you go out into the world and you try to figure this out you've got to sort through 100 gurus yeah everyone's saying
01:22:37
a different thing and even now if you give five anti-aging experts the same scientific papers and ask them to
01:22:43
develop a protocol for you you'll get a different protocol from every single one they're not going to agree there's no
01:22:48
way to go out there and get consensus in the world so you need to pick a path and then measure and I've done exactly that so I've basically tried to punch through
01:22:55
all the noise and say is there actually something I can do which has some believability that's what I've done so I've published all my data and so blueprint provides people a starter a
01:23:08
starting point to say I'm going to do something that I can see works I'm going to measure myself then iterate and
01:23:13
improve upon it so health and wellness is all like a religion where the King James version the Bible supports 100
01:23:19
different denominations they all say their gods one and true only same with health and wellness everyone claims they're God's true health and wellness
01:23:25
program and I've tried to punch the whole thing to say it doesn't matter what Guru status is share the data eat in the mornings
01:23:32
uh if you if I was a blank canvas I'd say trial I'd say follow my protocol exactly see how you feel and then try and experiment what you do later in the day and then compare the two
01:23:43
sugar zero zero sugar zero sugar why it does nothing useful for your body now like our body needs sugar to run so if you eat sugar in berries which you're
01:23:57
having now that's great but uh Pros uh highly processed white sugar cane sugar there's no value for your body there's other things of much higher
01:24:07
value for your body God it's hard to exist in this world without sugar isn't it do you do anything with your testosterone levels yeah I do a testosterone patch I supplement with a patch I assist I supplement because a
01:24:20
monocle or restriction diet and when you do that your testosterone naturally goes down so I keep my testosterone pegged in
01:24:25
the normal range between six and eight hundred I'm about 850 right now so it's I'm not trying to get above it I'm just
01:24:30
trying to be normal one of the reasons why I said to you before you when you sat down that men of
01:24:36
my age start thinking about longevity is we notice that our hairlines have started to recede yeah I mean getting
01:24:42
the third with a receding hairline is actually quite good so when my friends started a little bit earlier and then we start noticing these gray hairs in our
01:24:49
in our heads you have fantastic hair and in fact a lot of the comments I saw were what's he doing with his hair there was
01:24:55
one particular comment I was like someone asked him this was on online someone asked him how he's got that hair
01:25:00
what advice would you give to me listen I'm at that age now where I've got to make a decision do I let this thing go back yeah or do I fight it
01:25:06
don't do it yeah fight fight with everything you've got in you really yeah trust me on this I will trust me um you don't want to clean up
01:25:21
of uh you don't want to clean up aging damage that you can prevent right now and I can prevent my hell on receding
01:25:27
yes how I I started losing my hair in my early 30s yeah and it's been a grind to try to keep it and so my hair protocol here's what I do
01:25:39
I have a a custom formulation that we've built it basically has monoxidil and a few other things so people can get that easily I have a red light therapy cap I wear
01:25:51
every morning for six minutes in my morning routine I do uh prf so I inject I get blood
01:25:59
drawn spun up and then re-injected into my scalp once every maybe a month or three and then I take a few supplements that are listed
01:26:10
online for the blueprint website so basically like four things helps prevent hair loss
01:26:15
and incur encourages hair growth I don't know if I'm going to be able to do all of that and walk with my dog so
01:26:21
I'm like is there is there like a silver bullet like that I could so here's how it works is um
01:26:27
I know it sounds overwhelming if you build habits that just make these things you don't think about it it
01:26:34
sounds overwhelming in the beginning but if you just get into a routine where every morning you do your thing and when
01:26:40
you're doing that thing you just throw a cap on your head and it just is on for six minutes
01:26:45
and then at night before you go to bed you put a little uh liquid on your scalp and you rub it in and then you take a few pills every day with your routine it's entirely about Building Systems so
01:26:58
you don't think about it ever so it's never burden on you my friends are taking different
01:27:04
approaches to keeping their hairline and the side effects are the reason the proposed side effects are the reasons
01:27:10
why I've always been scared to do it one of the clear side effects that people talk about is loss of libido
01:27:16
I haven't had that so we do the dosage so if they're taking finasteride which is an oral uh then it does have
01:27:24
sexual side effects but we I have not yet encountered any intervention that has compromised my libido anywhere anything we're doing how do you measure your libido or is that just kind
01:27:36
of anecdotal yeah I mean so I this historically became known about measuring nighttime erections so I didn't know I was talking to a reporter about this and he had just done an
01:27:48
article on blueprint and he read it and he came back he's like hey my editors are asking about penis health and I was
01:27:54
like funny you ask I gotta tell you something so I just bought this high frequency electromagnetic stimulation device
01:28:00
working on basically I sit on this little thing it stimulates my pelvic floor and I was
01:28:05
trying to strengthen my bladder so I wouldn't get to go to bed at night it had this side effect of every time I
01:28:11
woke up I was erect and I was like this this is like what happened to me when I was 10. you know like when you're 10
01:28:16
years old you're always erect um and I was like I have an experienced that for quite some time I'm always erect and so
01:28:23
I was telling him about this thing and then I didn't realize it was going into the article and so then it came out I was like oh no
01:28:30
so like this this guy then it's like this dude is so weird yeah he like measures his nighttime erections and he drinks his son's blood and he and it starts started stacking and people are
01:28:42
like this guy's nuts yeah and so it just creates this this pattern where people are like yeah yeah he's just out there one of the things that's really distinctive about you is you have the best posture of any guest that's ever
01:28:53
sat here ever like to the point where I was like slumped and I looked at everything I was like [ __ ] that must be
01:29:00
a reason why he sat like that so I I corrected my posture but I keep sliding back down why does that matter to you
01:29:06
posture I wish somebody would have taught me this when I was a kid it matters a lot with blood flow I found out because I have these internal
01:29:13
jugular veins which blood from your brain brain flows out and I was born with narrow jugular veins and so when I
01:29:21
have bad posture like this it stops the blood flow and it builds up my brain what causes intracranial
01:29:26
pressure which is bad for your brain I didn't realize I had that until I found him a normal MRI scan we found that I
01:29:32
had some bad things happening in my brain like why is that happening and we found these internal jugular veins so
01:29:39
then it focused me on posture of how do you how do I actually situate myself to have the proper flow from my brain down
01:29:45
into my body and it became a whole thing and so we started doing a bunch of measurements trying to look at my intracranial pressure looking at my
01:29:52
white matter hypertensities my brain like basically how bad is it and it was bad my team kind of went on red alert
01:29:57
for three months am I gonna have a stroke am I gonna have a seizure we're trying to figure this out and so one of the ways we fixed this or we've made
01:30:04
positive progress where my symptoms have lessened is this posture so I became obsessed with posture to avoid having
01:30:12
some catastrophic event with my brain and it's been useful and helpful and so I just got into posture and I learned
01:30:18
how to do it but it was really hard I I never realized how many muscles have to be strong to have good posture I'd wake
01:30:25
up in the morning I could barely move I was like oh my God everything hurts did you think there's a correlation between
01:30:30
our health outcomes and our posture um the gentleman I work with on this thing strongly thinks that there's not evidence yet but he thinks that
01:30:43
it's a significant influence on it yeah quick one if you've been listening to this podcast for some time one of the
01:30:49
recurring messages you've heard over and over and over again especially when we first had that conversation with Tim
01:30:54
Spector is about the importance of Greens in our diet and a while ago I started pressing my friends at hewell to come out with a product that did exactly
01:31:05
that allowed you to have all those greens the vitamins and minerals you need in a drink and after several
01:31:11
several several months of iterations and processes they released this product called fuel Daily Greens which is now
01:31:18
one of my favorite products from heel because it tastes great and it fills that very important nutritional Gap that
01:31:23
I had in my diet the problem is it launched in the US and it sold out straight away and became a Smash Hit for fuel for the rare reasons I've described it's now back in stock in the United
01:31:35
States but it's not here in the UK yet so if you're a UK listener which I know a lot of you are it's not yet available
01:31:40
so let's all attack you let's DM them everywhere we can and tell them to bring huel Daily Greens to the UK this is the product when it is available in the UK I'm going to let you know first but
01:31:53
until then let's spam their DMS for those of you that don't know this podcast is sponsored by Uber company
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that I'm a shareholder in and I'm obsessed with my whoop it's glued to my wrist 24 7. and for those of you that
01:32:03
don't know it's essentially a personalized wearable health and fitness coach that helps me to have the best possible Health my whip has literally
01:32:10
changed my life whip is doing something this month which I'd highly suggest checking out it's a global Community
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01:32:37
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01:32:43
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money back but I have a suspicion that you're going to keep it check it out now and let me know how you get on send me a DM
01:33:02
it was quite surprising to see that you've connected AI to the work that you're doing the fourth principle you said about um not underestimating the necessity to
01:33:13
align with AI why why does AI come into this uh to me it's it's helpful to think about these kinds of questions by doing a
01:33:27
thought experiment and time traveling to the 21st century imagine whatever whatever form of
01:33:32
intelligence exists in the 21st century they're observing the early 21st century what Clarity of insight do they have
01:33:40
looking back at us that we can't see right now that helps me spin up certain frames of
01:33:46
mind and it could be that there was this revolution in the human race where we said don't die and then two is the only thing we have
01:33:57
to do to figure that out is to figure out cooperation on how not to die now when you say that you have to figure out how to get every single agent of
01:34:08
intelligence on Earth and maybe Beyond to cooperate cool so far kind of okay thanks for checking
01:34:21
so so we want the 25th Century AI to look back and see that one of the principles of our Humanity was do not die in the hope that it won't kill us okay yeah so let me start building this
01:34:33
up so the first take me as a first example I'm 35 trillion cells how do I figure out how to not die I go through this process to build an algorithm that maximizes existence
01:34:49
we do this between you and me where we have a cooperation now with not figuring out how you and I cooperate and
01:34:55
we don't die we have the same kind of thing with planet Earth so for example in my scenario we say can
01:35:03
the organs talk and can they run me and they can they keep my Rascal brain at Bay so it
01:35:10
doesn't ruin the show could the oceans run planet Earth we plug into the oceans with measurement and we say you run the biosphere
01:35:23
kind of a weird idea but not outlandish now you have to basically think about the Earth speaks our bodies speak we speak with each other now you have trillions of artificial uh intelligent
01:35:36
agents around all agents of intelligence have to cooperate if any one of these agents or any group of them violates the cooperation it could be the
01:35:49
end of you or me or the planet or everyone we have to figure out coexistence in this huge tapestry of goal alignment it's currently framed of AI Engineers
01:36:04
need to figure out how to stop AI from killing everyone that's part of the problem
01:36:11
but it's not the entire problem so that's the only objective you have as a species like there's nothing else that
01:36:16
matters right now it's don't die from every Vector of potential death and you think by bias doing that on our level and then at a earth Earthly
01:36:29
level that this will just want to make sure I'm clear that this will somehow feed into the artificial intelligence at
01:36:36
all will all will create artificial intelligence with one of its principles at its core to be cooperative yeah I
01:36:43
mean so that you take the AI problem and it's so high level you would say we don't want AI to be misaligned with human calls yeah
01:36:54
what are human goals okay and then you start breaking yourself apart me apart and we realize we are a disaster set of goals yeah we want
01:37:04
everything all the time and always contradicts we don't have a land goal and this is what I was trying to align
01:37:10
with myself can I answer that question and say I have a singular goal to exist now if I'm aligning with AI and if my singular goal is to get to
01:37:23
zero self violence right maximum life existence ability I now have a starting point to talk to with a talk to AI about
01:37:34
all of us do and if we say Earth it's maximum sustainability this planet we're on we have a starting point for discussion but it has to begin with existence and
01:37:48
we have to overcome the biggest psychological barrier in our current culture which is we perceive inevitable
01:37:54
death as therefore anything that happens like whatever we don't care and so we have to overcome and this is
01:38:00
why I've been playfully challenging the status and authority of Jesus Christ I made a joke that that Jesus fed wine and bread accelerating aging
01:38:11
and uh inebriating and I will feed nutrients that will nourish and create life that why is Jesus the continued representation of a philosophical group
01:38:25
of a billion plus people why can't someone challenge a status an authority and say no it's not the resurrection it's not the afterlife it's this life it's don't die
01:38:38
you're not a martyr for some higher objective of some rules to be completed it's this is the boundary conditions
01:38:45
that people create they say this is a philosophical thing it's sacred you can't talk about it you can't challenge it
01:38:52
why not I sat here with um one of the founders of Mustafa one of the founders of deepmind and we were trying to find
01:38:57
solutions to this issue of AI and containment and I want to make sure I'm clear that you're saying if we change
01:39:04
our goals on a human level from being less self-destructive and more focused on do not die in our existence then we
01:39:10
have something that we can align with Aion which will preserve our existence as well but we can't align with AI
01:39:16
because currently we're self-destructive so for an AI to align with us it would be self-destructive as well exactly and
01:39:22
if you peel back these layers now this conversation is if you if we actually got into the technical details it'd be much more nuanced I'm going to make an
01:39:28
oversimplification of a statement thank you humans have this broad set of goals it's
01:39:35
to make money is to acquire powers to have influence to change the world they want and that's when you when you talk
01:39:42
about containment you talk about corporations governments individuals ideological groups everyone's gunning for their own thing and this is why I took myself as example
01:39:53
if I look at me as the same structure of the world I've got evening Brian morning Brian ambition Brian entrepreneur Brian
01:39:59
lover Brian all these different versions of me want different things at different times and
01:40:05
they're all competing to achieve their objective and I understand these different versions of me I had to
01:40:10
basically say hey everybody like we've got a really big problem we're all fighting each other after these different things and Meanwhile we're
01:40:17
accelerating death and I had to basically say we're gonna compress the space and we're going to
01:40:23
acknowledge I as a My Mind cannot Act in my best interest and so what I'm really saying in the most extreme version I'm saying Humanity if we want to exist
01:40:38
has to contemplate handing over the reins of control to algorithms we cannot act in our best interest
01:40:50
individually collectively corporations nation states we can't do it we need new control systems of power
01:41:01
that acts in our long-term interests we're playing an existential game right now with existence we started playing that in the 60s with nukes and we're now playing it with AI we're
01:41:14
playing it with our biosphere potentially being an unsustainable place for us the Earth is gonna be fine not fine for us we're
01:41:21
playing Russian roulette with our with our existence so are we lethargic as a as a
01:41:28
species yeah we all think we're gonna die anyways and this is why if we flipped it and it's like maybe not and
01:41:34
maybe we're walking into the most extraordinary existence any form of intelligence has ever had in the galaxy
01:41:41
we may get our act together and say you know what let's think through this thing from these basic principles like real
01:41:48
easy let's not die we don't want to ruin this chance we have to exist in this amazing future a rebuttal you must have
01:41:54
had is that in the pursuit of not dying I don't want to not live do you see what I'm saying there because
01:42:00
when when I think about the the sacrifices I would have to make to my life to not die in the same way that
01:42:07
you've reversed your age I think well then there's no point because I'm not going to get to live and I want you to discrete that as like
01:42:13
a rebuttal how would you respond to someone that thinks that because I imagine a lot of people have heard the the protocol the blue they heard about
01:42:19
the blueprint and they're thinking well you know and I actually saw it I think I saw it on Rogan or something where the
01:42:24
guy was saying like you know I'd rather just die at 90 but having lived a fun life or whatever
01:42:31
who cares what your mind thinks why is your mind the unquestioned authority that gets to to say and do
01:42:45
whatever it wants why does your body not get a say in this Why can't your heart speak in your lungs why do you as a
01:42:52
tyrant Rule and reign with Terror on yourself this is the thing this is the unthinkable most offensive Revolution that could
01:43:05
happen as a species our entire existence we've assumed our mind is the ultimate Authority on all
01:43:13
things even this conversation nothing gets passed your mind as having an authority
01:43:18
what if our minds what if it didn't matter what our minds thought what if they were not the authority what if there are other authorities there and why do we even trust your mind to be
01:43:30
the thing that can decide on your best interest is that where you are in your life
01:43:37
you've removed the authority from your mind yes so when you talked about your being upset and I could see the the
01:43:43
emotion in you when people were attacking your father is that not giving you a mind Authority
01:43:48
uh I don't feel like I have control of those things there it's an emotional response that I based on thoughts yeah based upon
01:44:00
a reaction that I have this this relationship with my father and so the it's complicated right in terms of like
01:44:06
the thing I've isolated with blueprint is can I take my self-violence to zero you know there's another layer of like how do I feel about my father and what is that relationship different complexities this whole thing is
01:44:20
incredibly complex but the the simplest thing to do is can I do this within the control systems that I have can I take
01:44:26
my life to zero violence and if I can do it as a 35 trillion cell organization can we use this little teeny example and
01:44:32
map it to a species and say can we take this multi-trillion agent intelligent agent uh computational problem can we
01:44:39
solve this cooperation problem for everyone can we are you optimistic Brian and I want the honest answer here because you know people often have grand
01:44:46
plans but the most important question is do you think it's possible yes you think it's possible unquestionably do you
01:44:52
think it will happen I do I do and here's why I think that if it were just the human mind in play right now
01:45:03
I would not have I would not feel bullish I would be pretty forlorned I'd probably give up in
01:45:14
humans are no longer Alpha on this planet and whether you realize that whether someone realizes that or not there's a new Alpha on this planet and it's artificial intelligence
01:45:26
when we're going back to this conversation of the biographies this is inevitable
01:45:33
artificial intelligence will run us it will run this planet and it will run all forms of cooperation it's inevitable
01:45:45
and we're going to be superseded in our intelligence on a time scale that is surprising to us we think we have potentially more time than we do I don't think we do and that's why blueprint to
01:45:58
me is so urgent is of the Urgent problems we're looking at of how do you how do you get Society to not kill each other with nukes how do you get
01:46:10
um AI to not kill us how do you get us to not divide die individually how do you avoid the Earth's environment uh
01:46:17
biosphere from collapsing and not supporting our existence here anymore like how do you stop existential threats
01:46:22
and the thought processes people have been spinning up is we need legislation we need new laws we are going to protest
01:46:30
we're going to make a big thing and what I've tried to say is I'm going to actually do the thing no one else is
01:46:36
doing I'm going to point itself I'm going to say Can I solve all of these problems
01:46:43
Within Me can I solve climate change within me can I solve AI alignment within me can I
01:46:49
solve cooperation within me and that's what I've been trying to do is a n of one example of how to solve a
01:46:55
complicated system now blueprint is like an analog version like it's first version right it's like it's
01:47:01
but philosophically it's an interesting model how do you take a complicated system
01:47:07
intelligence like me with all these different versions was proneness for self-destruction I mean like if you say what are the risks of AI like AI uh you
01:47:15
list like all the things AI does that scare us that is exactly the same list that I'm
01:47:20
scared of for myself and that you're doing to the 35 million cells yeah like I am Ai and I am my own my own worst
01:47:27
risk like it's just the risk profile is the same I'm runaway intelligence doing things that is causing self-destruction and that's what AI will do if it's
01:47:40
allowed to run away so that's the thing it's so funny if we look at Ai and we and we're scared of it we just look in the mirror it's the same thing it's the same risk profile
01:47:50
intelligence is self-destructive if uncontrolled or so how do you build intelligence that's actually sustainable how do you build so it's not self-destructive how long do you think we've gone you said we've got less time
01:48:04
than we think I don't know why we wouldn't spin on a dime right now and look at every existential threat and go after it
01:48:15
right now like why wait one more day and why even up why even try to calculate the absolute last moment we can do something before everything becomes catastrophic we don't know the second
01:48:26
and third and fourth order consequences of the the BIOS that are changing we don't know when AI is going to emerge and what level we don't know what
01:48:31
systems are going to do we don't know like there you can't model it you can't predict it so creating time frames is ridiculous
01:48:38
you're emotional about this I want to exist I really don't want to die again it's like it's really fun to exist
01:48:49
and I don't know what death is like but I've had moments in my life where I get these small glimpses into this expansive of consciousness and it could be the case that we are
01:49:02
Homo erectus that we are we are so primitive it's just unimaginable and that if we can step into this future
01:49:09
we could have this expanse of Consciousness that is mind-bending like so far out like so far beyond our imaginations we just can't even comprehend it like we could be right there on that
01:49:21
cusp to me it seems like we are like why why would anything any other imagination
01:49:27
be practical to assume right now if super intelligence is in the game here and we're within that that mesh of
01:49:33
intelligence why couldn't we reasonably imagine that we might be along the ride in some
01:49:38
capacity are you scared no I don't have an emotion of feeling scared I don't experience that emotion ever fear uh I don't I mean as people
01:49:50
describe it to me I don't really feel it very logical and analytical in the way that you see things right
01:49:57
you think differently right and obviously people that think different like people like Elon Musk Etc he's he's
01:50:02
neurodivergent in some capacity you've got a Divergence to your your neurology if that's even a word
01:50:09
um which is very unique and are you aware of that it's uh it's hard for me to see that
01:50:17
I there's our there are moments where I was at a dinner a few weeks ago and people were going around and talking about stuff and the contrast was like
01:50:29
whoa I'm really different than like what's happening here so there are these moments of the sharp contrast uh but I I generally view the world as crazy
01:50:40
I view everything else and I'm like this is nuts what's even happening here everyone is weird too this makes no
01:50:47
sense what the world is doing and how people behave it makes no sense to me at all as I know that if you flip it people
01:50:55
view me in the same way but God damn the world seems crazy to me people look at you they think oh he's a bit weird and you look at them think God he's a bit weird I think people I think the world is
01:51:07
crazy just insane someone's right it's either you or the world time will tell right yeah time will tell what is the most important thing Brian I
01:51:22
imagine I would guess I reckon five million people listen to this that's my estimate
01:51:28
um based on the conversation what is the most important thing that we haven't discussed that those five million people
01:51:34
need to know before we close out um that now is our opportunity to band to get together and experience the most extraordinary
01:51:49
existence that we are aware of in the galaxy and that this opportunity is going to invite us to divorce ourselves
01:52:01
from every sacred idea we have about ourselves and Society each other it's going to
01:52:12
require more sacrifice than any generation and it's going to be incredibly painful
01:52:24
and it's going to test our fortitude on whether or not we choose to exist the fate of intelligence in this corner of the universe may depend upon
01:52:40
us right now creating this bridge to this next evolution of Being Human and of the
01:52:48
fabric of intelligence it is our opportunity to seize equally to lose if we don't recognize the moment and step up
01:53:01
and step one in stepping up is fundamentally stopping the war against ourselves it's it's in
01:53:13
daily acts of revolting of Revolution against the status quo which is harming us and lessening our chances every day
01:53:29
people are accustomed to seeing revolutions happen by storming places and using weapons
01:53:38
the weapons at our disposal are to go to bed on time to eat healthy to not watch porn to not get addicted to things
01:53:50
and it sounds weird and weak and different but revolting against the culture of death
01:54:02
and a self-destruction with self with planet Earth and how we engage with artificial intelligence and these foundations map the future of
01:54:15
our existence and it begins with self it's not blaming someone else it's not pointing at someone and telling them how
01:54:20
they have to change it's looking itself and building the revolution within each one of us
01:54:26
what would you do if you found out you were going to die next week in a Tamil illness how would you feel
01:54:31
I would feel satisfied that I spent my entire adult life searching for the singular thing I could try to do to create value for the human race
01:54:45
and I found it just in time and articulated the idea is just in time barely well enough to kick-start this revolution are you misunderstood
01:54:59
because the perception of you that I had before I met you is different subsection I have a view now specifically the
01:55:04
perception I have of why you're doing what you're doing because when I heard the tale of this Brian Johnson guy ego
01:55:11
is trying to be 18 years old he's a narcissist he's just he was struggling with the concept of death he's got so
01:55:16
much money now he's fighting life so you know he's doing this for himself he probably wants to date someone young and
01:55:23
that's why he's doing what he's doing it's all sort of self-centered the proposition you've given me today is
01:55:28
very much more about Humanity than it is Brian Johnson it seems like the picture painted of you
01:55:34
and I know how the press works right yeah it's the things that gets the clicks right versus the person that sits
01:55:39
in front of me today feel like two completely different people I'm not understood I would almost prefer
01:55:46
to be misunderstood because that assumes some level of understanding and it's not even a close approximation
01:55:58
like you're saying the it's so far off from what is really what I'm really trying to achieve your father 75 years old
01:56:10
he's not gonna live forever or is he how'd you contend with that a man you clearly love a lot but you understand that the there's an inevitability to lie for most people who aren't revolting
01:56:24
against life in the way that you are with your longevity routines and your anti-aging
01:56:30
protocols yeah it's um it's impossibly hard for me to reconcile you know like yeah one time he um I couldn't get a hold of him for a couple days
01:56:58
and which is uncommon and I spiraled in concluding that he had died and you know not being able to call him
01:57:11
and hear his voice uh was beyond devastating and death is a terrible thing we've all experienced it and
01:57:30
it would be wonderful if we could bring an end to it are you trying to keep him alive I am
01:57:47
how they my both my my parents joke that you know they get a package it seems like every single day I'm sending them everything I can
01:57:58
and you're like do this do that and it sometimes it's too much whether I Brian I can only take so many pills a day and I can only do so many things a day and
01:58:10
it's a fun relationship but I I am trying very hard to take care of my parents and my children and my family
01:58:19
I I care deeply about those around me and I work very very hard for their well-being
01:58:25
I believe you Brian I believe your intentions I think what you're doing comes from a
01:58:32
very very good place um I I think you're wide in a way which is unusual and that's not to pass judgment on whether we're all unusual in our own ways right but you're wide in a very in
01:58:44
a way that's unusual but because of your wiring it's very useful you know I think that when we think about tribes and chronotypes and the
01:58:51
differences within tribes it's useful to have people that think differently within the tribe because it kind of covers all of our bases and you present
01:58:57
A New Perspective um about Humanity about the path forward and about the way to live and I think any New Perspective anyone who is
01:59:05
um humble and under you know is searching for truth would welcome A New Perspective especially when it's not
01:59:11
harming others right you would want A New Perspective if you are in the search of Truth not in the in the search of
01:59:16
confirmation of your existing ideas or um the alleviation of the cognitive dissonance we experience and that's what I when I experience you that's exactly what I think I'm open I'm open to your perspective I don't have to accept it
01:59:28
all into my daily life but being open to listen I think is something we should expect of ourselves at a very
01:59:35
fundamental level and I would just wish there was more people that would just you know have the fearlessness to present A New
01:59:41
Perspective because as I think we said earlier in this conversation there's so much potential trapped behind
01:59:46
the fear of looking weird in life so we'd stifle opinions and Innovations and creativity because we don't want to look weird because there's a cost to that our society you get smashed right and for
01:59:57
whatever reason you've made the decision that that matters less than the mission that you're on
02:00:03
so I I respect you and I commend you for that am I gonna have the 120 pills can't make your promise there I'm sure I'll take a couple of them um this was nice yeah I can't imagine
02:00:14
putting the chocolate on my broccoli but you know there's a lot to learn here and I hope to make this sort of incremental
02:00:19
steps um in some of those areas of my health that we we can all agree upon yeah I uh I would thank you for the
02:00:26
conversation today the as hard as I try to be impervious to judgment in conversations it's hard to fully go through the expression of
02:00:37
ideas when the other person even is making the most subtle of judgments or setting boundary conditions and I love talking to you because you
02:00:48
did none you just rolled with me and you embraced it and I felt uh welcomed to express all of this I appreciate that very much really means a lot to me to the point I just got goosebumps because um I can't imagine what you've gone
02:01:02
through in interviews with people in their judgments when I'm actually getting emotional thinking about it I can't imagine what you've gone through
02:01:08
in interviews because of people's like their close-mindedness when they came to have a conversation with you and how
02:01:13
like what a waste of of conversation and discourse and progress that is when we come with a closed mind and so I'm so
02:01:21
happy you felt that way because it really mattered to me that you did um and because you did you were able to share in such a way which I actually
02:01:27
think is incredibly beneficial to me and I think everyone that's listened so thank you for that
02:01:32
um that's the one of the best compliments I've ever received so really means a lot to me thank you we have a closing tradition on this podcast where
02:01:38
the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave it for in the Diary of a CEO
02:01:46
the question left for you huh I mean maybe you've answered this um is it how many nighttime erections I
02:01:56
have foreign what was the cost of you coming and doing this interview today to your routine I thought you know I'm going to sit with him for two hours which we've
02:02:08
done but there's gonna be a cost to your routine yeah none none because of the timing yeah okay good appreciate that
02:02:15
yeah we'll get you home before 8 30. for your curfew um the question left for you is if all
02:02:21
I think it says if all you could change is one thing about the world what would it be um I want to exist
02:02:35
a unwavering unconditional maniacal want to exist Brian thank you really enjoyed this conversation and I'm sure it'll be the first of many because I've got a lot to learn so appreciate your time today
02:02:55
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