00:00:02
you do think about is it selfish is it worth it is it something [Music] so um Sir Richard Branson Richard Branson is
00:00:18
one of the most fun-loving and adventurous billionaires in the world he's conquered our scars blasted off
00:00:23
into space the entrepreneurs entrepreneur the marketers marketer in the School of Business they said focus
00:00:29
by the age of 33 you've got 50 different companies you kind of break that law it seems if we'd stayed still and only
00:00:36
focused on one business we wouldn't have a business today if we were still going strong 55 years later if you get the
00:00:42
little details right makes for an exceptional company over an average company we were the first airline to introduce seat back videos in the world
00:00:49
sleeper seats for business class passengers we've always been ahead of the pack the airline's been bullied by
00:00:54
British Airways famously through the dirty tricks campaign the best always succeeds as if all of
00:01:01
that you've done before wasn't enough you decided to aim for the Stars we're going to space looking back at this
00:01:08
beautiful beautiful Earth that we live on the whilst floating it was a dream come true you know we're still at the
00:01:14
early stage of space travel and there's still risks One Pilot has died after a passenger spaceship crashed everything that we'd built up looked like it was
00:01:25
crashing down what impact does that have on you and your mission you've got to continue before this episode starts I have a
00:01:37
small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my
00:01:46
goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor
00:01:52
and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and
00:01:59
enjoy this episode [Music] oh yeah [Music] Richard having spent the last 24 hours reading both your
00:02:11
autobiographies but also your new HBO docu-series Eve your mother um she she felt like a really really extraordinarily principled and um strong character and in the
00:02:25
docu-series you actually say that you didn't realize how much she had influenced you on becoming the entrepreneur you are today
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what was it that she was doing pushing her out the car at 45 years old and making you walk home but what is what were those principles that underlined
00:02:38
her approach so I mean she was one of the sort of uh first entrepreneurs around really I mean not you know not a particularly successful one but she was
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um making table mats and you know cutting out pretty pictures from books and making and and turning him to you know turning them into uh pictures that she would then
00:03:03
take to Harrods or um Harvey Nichols um interestingly and I didn't realize this until I sort of saw it in some letters that she'd written to me um uh
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um you know working from a phone box in in London um and um uh and that was her office just like my
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office had been later on working from a phone box at school um but um uh yeah but so she she would
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never stop she she was an idea idea a minute and always trying to uh uh you know better better Our Lives better and um
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um and also always trying to create things that she could be proud of when was she most proud of you
00:03:51
in terms of what kind of behaviors or achievements would make her most happy when you're young
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um she um yeah she was she was fairly uh yeah she was she was fairly firm when it came to you know the need for
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um you know being courteous from a young age and I mean I remember uh uh in church one day I refused to go and sit next to some somebody that she
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wanted me to sit next to who was maybe visiting our house and and when I got home
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um uh she asked my dad to spank me and uh that that had never happened before and my dad takes me into the living room into into the next door
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room and um uh and and instructs me to burst into tears and he slaps his hands together very hard six times I come out rubbing my bum um but um
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um and then of course she regretted having done it in the first place but of course it never happened so
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um the um but um um but that you know that you know she she you know she generally speaking it was um unreserved love but she she wanted us
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to uh care for other people properly um you know if we ever said ill about somebody would be sent to the mirror and uh we'd have to stand there for 10 minutes um because it you know she felt it
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reflected so badly on us uh that we'd said ill as somebody um and you know those sort of less
00:05:34
lessons I think were very very very powerful and very good uh later on in life when I was you know leading people um always trying to look for the best in in everybody
00:05:45
one of the threads throughout your story which um shocked me surprised me and inspired me in many ways throughout the
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docu series was this continual desire to move on to the next thing and make things bigger and to capture another opportunity which struck me as being at times like really defining character of
00:06:03
you you know even when things seem to be successful by anyone's estimation you pushed on again and then you'd push on again and again do you have any idea where that instinct or that
00:06:14
characteristic came from in you I'm sure that came from um uh my mum I am Son of
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Eve which which is my mum's name um and um but it's also I think because I was dyslexic um and you know pretty hopeless at
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school um I've forever been trying to prove something to myself um and um and and proved something that you know when she was alive to her and my dad
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um and um uh I'm inquisitive I just love I love learning about new things um uh and once I've actually absorbed
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everything there is to know about you know the uh the thing I've just created a map app to want to move on and learn learn something about something completely different
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um particularly if I feel other people are not doing it well and and I just love diving in there and and um
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uh trying to you know shake up an industry that is badly run do you think she she and your father even your father um Ted had high hopes for you
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I think that um my mum uh definitely thought that I would be and yeah she she she decided that I was going to be prime minister of uh Britain one day and um uh
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and I think that um yeah she so she she definitely had high hopes for me um uh my dad just wanted uh us to be happy I mean he was a very uh love
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lovable content and funny uh witty uh individual um wanted to be an archaeologist but ended up uh going into the law after after the war and would have been happy
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I think what as long as we were happy he didn't mind you know he didn't really want to push us but
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um but my mum I think expected expected more of us you mentioned School a few moments ago you and me both have a similarity in that we were hopeless in school you went
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off to boarding school at seven years old which in and of itself is a pretty extreme experience for a seven-year-old you describe this as being a little bit
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too young in your view um and you struggled in part because of your dyslexia at the time did you did you know what dyslexia was or what it meant no I had no idea what dyslexia was I
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just um assumed that I must be a little bit thick um I mean I could just about add up and subtract but when it got to more complicated stuff like algebra and
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geometry and the likes I couldn't understand the reason for it I wasn't interested in it you know I couldn't
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understand why we were having to learn French when when nobody seemed to ever actually speak it when they left school
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and um or Latin or um and um and so I suppose in my head I rebelled against um being taught things that I couldn't see the relevance of
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um and um and actually that was a good thing because it it it ended with me rebelling from actually staying at
00:09:36
school and leaving school at 15 um and uh and creating some uh and creating a magazine uh which um to try to sort of address some of the
00:09:49
issues in the world your dyslexia um you've often highlighted that in many respects it's
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been a superpower it's given you skills that have led to your success what what is that what are those skills and what
00:10:00
is the advantage in your view of this dyslexia and how that's changed how you function operate
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um I think uh that um well first of all I I would like to say I'm proud of being a dyslexic thinker um and I I'm delighted that uh dyslexic
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thinking is now becoming um almost part of the vocabulary um um and I'm pleased to you know talk to many dyslexic kids over the years to try
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to make them realize that um you know you know do not do not be worried about it um you know look at look at the areas that you um that you enjoy and con concentrate on
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those um and the areas that you're not great at um you uh you know either that you'll catch up later on in life
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um or you know if you're going to start a business you can delegate and find other people who can deal with those
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um so I think dyslexic dyslexic people really excel at the things that things that there that interest them and I think I know a lot of a lot of
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business people for instance who were dyslexics who've um who uh have have um Gone Gone on to do incredible things your Headmaster um I read the very uh slightly humorous
00:11:28
slightly um shocking story of uh when you're at boarding school you had a little bit of a romantic run-in with his
00:11:35
his daughter Charlotte got expelled uh staged to fake suicide got unexpelled um and then you as you referenced a second ago you had this idea for the student magazine I read that there was a
00:11:46
an ultimatum given to bioheadmaster where he said Richard I know you're starting this magazine you're either got
00:11:51
to leave school or um and start the magazine or stay in school and focus on your formal education and at that point
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you made the decision to jump ship yeah I mean I I don't think the Headmaster was very foresighted I think uh you know if a kid at school wants to start a national magazine for young
00:12:11
people what a great education and that they should have they should have welcomed us to stay at school and do it
00:12:16
you know within the from from school uh but the Headmaster wasn't going to allow
00:12:22
me to do that um and and thank God because um you know getting out into the real
00:12:29
world I achieved a lot more than I would have done um if he'd uh if if he'd been
00:12:35
Pleasanton said uh you know run the magazine from school um there were a lot there was a lot
00:12:40
going on in the world um you know there was the Vietnamese War um there was the biafran war and there were um uh the Provost in Holland there was
00:12:52
um uh uh it was the education system that needed students to rebel against and um and the and so it was a it was an exciting time in the 60s to leave school
00:13:04
go to London um and try to start a magazine I watched your um as I watched your docu Series
00:13:11
yesterday in that that theater um that we're all in including yourself one of the lines really struck with struck me when when they showed the
00:13:17
small room that you were building this magazine in I know sometimes it was a post box but sometimes there was a small room I think at a later date a line was
00:13:25
said which was um this was my education and for young people who are considering
00:13:31
take taking a leap when they have very little responsibility or think you know very little to lose throwing themselves
00:13:37
in that kind of throwing themselves in a situation where they'll fail their way to an education
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struck me as being so important and so underrated you don't have kids or you don't have a house or a mortgage and it
00:13:48
seems like that's exactly what you did you used like failure and risk as a way to self-educate
00:13:54
yeah I mean it's difficult for me to recommend it to everybody listening to this program because not everyone's going to be successful and obviously you and I have
00:14:07
been fortunate that we we have had success doing it that way um some people are not going to get put
00:14:13
my conservative hat on knowing that the parents may be listening as well um you know some people will benefit
00:14:19
from having an education you know degree or whatever to fall back on if the if they're if they're they find that they're they just can't make a go of it in business
00:14:30
um but anyway for I I think for the two of us um I think the um uh yeah being out in the real world I mean I learned so much
00:14:43
um and uh um and it you know it's held me into such good stead throughout my life um you know in running a magazine of
00:14:54
course you know you're going out interviewing people you're learning every time you interview somebody um I I you know I think um being a
00:15:02
journalist or being being an editor you um is not so different from being an entrepreneur you're you're out all the
00:15:09
time meeting new people in different sectors just learning learning learning um and um and you know through the magazine
00:15:19
uh a lot of people would write with problems um young people would write with problems so we ended up setting up as a
00:15:26
student advisory Center uh where we would um uh give people advice on venereal disease or gay people the gay population or um or
00:15:39
um you know contraceptive advice abortion advice um psychiatric advice um you know and and you know just meeting all these people with all these different problems suicidal
00:15:51
so a societal mental problems um really open open my mind it was just a fascinating fascinating education and um and throughout my life since then I've spent a lot of my life trying to uh
00:16:06
address some of these issues in a in a first of all in a wider sense in London and now more more on a global scale and um but but that was you know that is
00:16:18
education of um was so important um you know for instance I remember when I was 15 in London you know somebody who's gay came to me saying that they wanted
00:16:29
help and um maybe I just turned 16 and um and I thought very naively that when they said they wanted help that you know they didn't want to be gay and of course you know within a month or two I
00:16:43
realized that you know that people are born gay and uh and uh and they don't have a choice in the matter and and what they what they desperately need needed
00:16:54
in those days was to meet other gay people and uh because it because if they came from
00:17:01
um some remote place in the UK where gay people weren't accepted um they would come to London Desperately
00:17:07
Seeking seeking love or seeking friendship um and um uh and and so you know just
00:17:16
little things like that um I learned from um just just being out there listening
00:17:21
and doing you're that was that magazine was your um the first sort of big notable thing
00:17:27
that you you've done in business and throughout your story and even before I I'd met you and watched the docuseries
00:17:32
and read the book I was told by other people Richard Branson's a super an amazing delegator you mentioned it
00:17:37
earlier on your your delegation skills to understand how to delegate to someone else you first as you've said need to
00:17:43
understand your strengths and weaknesses and also their strengths and weaknesses so what is what are your strengths in
00:17:50
your own words what is the bit of the puzzle that you're good at I think I'm good with people
00:17:57
um I think uh I try I can trust people I think I can surround myself with um uh you know with with with really
00:18:07
really good people I think I'm uh able to um uh yeah to delegate to delegate not to second second guess them all the time
00:18:20
um uh yeah to pray he's not criticize um and um uh and uh I I think I'm I think I'm quite good
00:18:33
at uh if I create something making sure it's the best you know the best in its area um so that the people who are working for Virgin are really proud of what
00:18:44
they're doing um uh you know it's really important that um you know if if if somebody's in a pub and they work for Virgin and somebody says what do you do that they're they're
00:18:57
proud of the fact that that you know they work for Virgin and they're happy to say it and there are some companies
00:19:03
that that um if people work for they weren't they weren't really want to be able to say
00:19:08
that they work for such and such a company um yes I think I I think I think the people's skills um is is is the is the most important
00:19:20
um skill um I think um uh just giving giving you know giving things a try um uh you know screw it let's do it
00:19:34
obviously it's one a phrase I made did years ago and and uh and I've used that phrase many many a time you know somebody comes with a an idea and I like them and
00:19:46
um and and yeah just say and you know let's let's give it a go and um and sometimes we both we all flat full fat in our face sometimes sometimes it succeeds
00:20:00
and conversely then what are the what are the weaknesses that you've kind of observed in yourself or the things that you tend to delegate to other people
00:20:07
um I actually read something which said which is a quote of yours that said I wanted like an IQ test at eight years
00:20:12
old I don't think I filled in anything going forward 30 or so years I was running Europe's largest private group
00:20:19
of companies but I didn't know the difference between gross and net profit but it didn't matter
00:20:25
yes I was in a board meeting uh when I was about 50 years old and and the director um said um and I think I said is that good
00:20:38
news or bad news and then and one of the directors said come come outside Rich at a minute so came outside and he said you
00:20:44
don't know the difference between that and gross to you so I said uh no um uh he said I thought not anyway I
00:20:52
brought a sheet of paper so she brings out the sheet of paper and the uh he's he has some color pens and he colors it
00:21:00
in blue and then he puts a fishing mess in the um in it and then he puts a little fish in the fishing net and he says then
00:21:07
so the fish that are in the net that's your profit at the end of the year and the rest of the ocean that's your gross
00:21:13
turnover and um I went oh got it and I was ever ever since then I've been name dropping that engross to people who've obviously know full well what it is and
00:21:27
um but but the point of the story is uh it really doesn't matter um I mean it's bet it's a good idea most likely if you're you're chief accountant uh knows
00:21:41
um uh but you know for a for somebody who's running a company what matters is can you um you know can you create the best
00:21:52
um the best company in its sector you know if you're gonna create an airline is it going to be palpably better than
00:22:00
um the Rival Airline if you create a cruise company is it going to be probably better than the other Cruise companies if you're a great trained
00:22:07
company is it going to be probably better than what's gone before and if it is then at the end of the year it's
00:22:14
likely that more money that will come in than goes out um and um uh and then somebody you know
00:22:21
somebody else can add up add up the figures um uh so I think you know to be to to run a
00:22:29
to run a business you know yes it helps start up it helps to subtract it helps to multiply
00:22:36
um I don't even think you need to worry about division um that that's it so um uh you know so if you can if you can do those three things um uh you can run a business if you
00:22:48
can't do those three things I wouldn't worry too much you'd find somebody else you can and just but just go out and
00:22:53
create something that's going to make a positive difference to other people's lives that student magazine became um kind of
00:23:00
pivoted at the end into a mail-order music business which is a big part of the docu series that we watched
00:23:06
yesterday um but then it became so many more things and it's the interesting thing is kind of how you Swang from one of these
00:23:12
business ideas to the next because you'd seen a product or service that you thought could be done better or there
00:23:18
was an opportunity there when I you know in the School of Entrepreneurship if that's like a metaphorical thing we
00:23:23
always talk about the importance of focus now when I look at your story from 15 years old starting that magazine to
00:23:30
starting a mail order business around I think 20 22 years old when Virgin was kind of um conceptualized and launched
00:23:36
and then by the age of 33 you've got 50 different companies involving everything from film making to
00:23:43
um conditioner cleaning and generating more than 10 million dollars in sales I go this is not what they told me about
00:23:50
the need for focus in the School of Business they said Focus you kind of break that law it seems a focus
00:23:58
so um uh so I've I've never really thought of myself as a business person um uh obviously you know on paper I am
00:24:11
an entrepreneur um or a business person um uh I've never really been interested in the bottom line despite uh what the uh the the doc docq series seems to
00:24:22
betray um I I really have been interested in creating things I can be proud of um and uh and a lot of those things come out of personal frustration and I must
00:24:36
be frustrated quite a lot when I was young because and and ended up you know trying a lot of things um uh and um and I just found it great fun
00:24:48
um investing and you know people I met um you know you know somebody will come along and uh you know the the music business may have been um you know struggling at one stage in
00:25:00
my career with Within Advent of the iPod and and you know a couple of guys come along and say um you know we you should do mobile phones this is you know this would
00:25:11
replace the music business and yeah and they were great great people and and and
00:25:16
you know so we thought screw it you know let's do it let's get you to go into the mobile phone business and and and so if
00:25:23
we if we'd stayed still and only done only focused on one business um uh maybe let's say the record business um let's say record stores which is one
00:25:36
of our earlier earlier things [Music] um uh we most like we wouldn't have a business today because the you know Mega stores and Roads and and record stores no longer exist because
00:25:49
um the the iPod and free music really put them out of business um and so you know so by actually going against the rule rules of you know what
00:26:02
you learn in business school um we you know we we're still going strong you know 55 years later
00:26:09
um and um uh and diversification actually saved us I mean like you know during covid um uh you know Virgin Atlantic and uh
00:26:21
very badly hit uh companies uh was was saved by virgin I mean being able to celebrate Galactic shares so um so diversification
00:26:33
um is far more exciting um you learn a hell of a lot more and it can be useful in times of crisis clear that only a great delegator would would be able to diversify without
00:26:46
creating spreading themselves too thinly per se I'm not sure I guess that goes back to that skill of diversity of Delegation your Headmaster said something to you
00:26:56
that my best friend urijway said to me when I was 18 years old after I dropped out of University my best friend Joe Ridgeway um from Plymouth said to me I
00:27:04
remember I stood in this this Curry shop on uh on in rush home he said you're either going to be a millionaire or in
00:27:11
prison now when I read that this morning when I was doing research on um your Headmaster
00:27:16
it stopped me and my breakfast halfway through my sort of chew I thought gosh now I know why he said that to me because he knew there was a certain level of desperation in me and there was a certain craftiness which was could
00:27:28
either take me could either be used for good or evil when you was when you did the student magazine
00:27:34
that that um prophecy appeared to come true one day when the police raided your magazine
00:27:41
and arrested you and I learned about this in the docu-series last night your your mother then puts her house on
00:27:48
the line to get you out of jail and you choose to expand you you choose to expand your way out of the problem which
00:27:54
for you men as it said in the docu series opening 30 record stores that year to be able to pay your mother back
00:28:00
have you always chosen to expand your way out of problems um yes I think I think the answer is yes um I mean I I spent one night in prison
00:28:14
in those days you had to pay tax on records if you ship them to Europe sadly with brexit you're going to have people gonna have to do that again but um uh and um
00:28:27
and I stumbled into the fact that if you drove across the channel and drove back
00:28:34
again you had a piece of paper which said you'd exported the records and therefore you didn't have to pay the tax and
00:28:40
um and um uh but uh anyway so we we we we we we we got her a a a bad rap on the knuckles I spent I spent a night in prison and swore never ever ever to spend a second night in prison in my
00:28:54
life um and uh and yes we expanded fast in order to pay pay off the fine um uh we just needed the turnover um and it was it was actually um uh
00:29:08
actually a really um uh a a wonderful booster to to all the team at virgin to to and uh and um uh and fortunately you know we managed
00:29:22
within three years to pay to pay it off um but um I mean I it sometimes we're expanding uh uh expanding just for the
00:29:35
pleasure of learning about something new and um and then maybe occasionally on like like on that occasion we're expanding to get ourselves out of pro out of trouble
00:29:45
quick one this episode is brought to you by Mercedes-Benz who recently got in touch to support the driver CEO I'm
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00:31:46
most um terrifying decisions you ever made was to go into the airline industry Warren Buffett's fairly famous for
00:31:52
saying that he has once considered employing someone to sit in his office and every time he feels like investing in an airline to talk him out of it
00:31:59
because it's such a absurd terrifying business to get into you were running a very successful
00:32:06
record label and record store um business by then you had many many companies many Investments and you
00:32:11
decided to take this huge bet to start an airline now there's a lot said about why
00:32:18
could you tell me in your own words why um it it really was out of frustration of um flying on other people's Airlines having having bad experiences and and
00:32:31
feeling that um we could uh we could do it better we could make it it could be more fun I
00:32:38
mean in in those days uh you know if you flew on saber's shareways it was a monopoly um uh they you know you were you you
00:32:49
maybe got a lump of chicken dumped in your lap um there was no entertainment um the cabin crew certainly didn't enjoy working for the company and and and you
00:33:00
really felt like you're just being herded from A to B in in a cattle truck um and um uh and so uh I flew I was flying all
00:33:11
over the world um to um uh to uh to visit our record companies because we had record companies for most countries around the world and and just felt you know we could we could do it
00:33:24
better and uh somebody came along to us with the idea of a business Airline um only I didn't think that would be very exciting to run um and um but I thought a really really
00:33:39
good quality Airline for everybody including business people um you know it would be a a something
00:33:46
special to run and um uh and so ended up ringing up Boeing and um and having a wonderful discussion with a wonderful guy called RJ Wilson and ending up and being able to uh lease
00:34:02
a secondhand 747 from him um and um and because you know uh I do like to you know to protect the downside which is obviously important in business and I did a deal with him where I could
00:34:19
hand the plane back at the end of 12 months if you know if my instinct was not right
00:34:26
um and um but fortunately at the end of 12 months people love flying on Virgin Atlantic and we ended up you know
00:34:32
getting a second and a third plane from Boeing and and that was yeah 38 years ago and um and you know Virgin Atlantic has um
00:34:45
uh you know it's like a uh it's roughly the same age as my daughter um uh you know um she's been the airline's been bullied
00:34:55
um by British Airways I mean famously through the dirty tricks campaign um uh it was a really tough time
00:35:04
um we took ba to court and we won the biggest lipo damages in history um uh uh she's had she's had to go through the like think crashes like the um uh
00:35:17
911 disaster um the 2008 disaster and it's the covid disaster um and uh and I'm sure that we've it you
00:35:30
know that it's cost us more money than um than we've ever made from it um uh but it's been the flagship you
00:35:37
know for Virgin um it's enabled us to launch other companies in different countries around
00:35:42
the world and the back of the the strong brand and the strong reputation it's had
00:35:48
um and uh she's she's a a daughter that I will zealously protect and and um uh as long as I can when you look back at why that business survived
00:36:00
considering the first competition considering what British Airways did and what ultimately found guilty of in court
00:36:05
with their dirty tricks campaigns the bit that really stuck out to me yesterday was hearing that they had a
00:36:10
staff member hack into your customer database um to kind of see spy on what you were
00:36:16
doing that went to court you won the battle um and that acted as a real boost I think for Virgin because it kind of staged you as this sort of David versus Goliath um situation where you were the underdog
00:36:29
but as you look back on that Journey many people have fallen in that industry it's a graveyard as you say in the
00:36:34
documentary why did virgin win what was it was it brand was it customer experience was it just Grit
00:36:41
I think I think that [Music] um I think a lot comes back to staff I mean um that we we've always had a great
00:36:53
um team of people working at virgin they're they're really proud of the company um uh
00:37:00
um they um uh we've done things you know we've always been ahead of the head of the
00:37:06
pack in in new Innovations so um you know seat back videos for instance we were the first airline to introduce seat back videos in the world um uh the um uh you know sleeper seats
00:37:19
for business class passengers um uh um you know stand-up bars and um and lounges and so on um you know collect collecting money at the door you
00:37:31
know um for charity that virgin was the first to do that and how pretty will every Airline and most airports are
00:37:37
doing it as well this change um so I think um uh you know every little detail I think we um the team have got right at virgin um and um
00:37:51
uh and if you get the little details right you know um then collectively um uh you it makes for an exceptional company over an average company and you know if I'm on a virgin play and
00:38:04
I'll I'll or in any version company I'll have my notebook I'll take notes I'll listen to it listen to the staff listen
00:38:10
to the customers um you know and then act on it when I get to the far end and um uh and and then being back in touch with
00:38:22
the people who gave me the ideas to thank them and tell them what we've done and and I think a good a good leader has
00:38:28
to be a good listener um and if you're if you're um uh uh and that's I think one of the most
00:38:35
important attributes of a good leader I grabbed my phone halfway through watching the docq Series yesterday when
00:38:40
you mentioned the seat back videos because in the same breath you mentioned how every accountant would tell you
00:38:49
um not to do many of the things that you've chosen to do but also the banks wouldn't even lend you the money to do
00:38:54
the seat back videos they'll give you the money to like two billion dollars to do the planes but they wouldn't give you the 10 million to do the seat back
00:38:59
videos you've mentioned Instinct as well a few times as a CEO over the years I've had this
00:39:05
battle between like instinct and the CFO you seem to tend to I think the quote you said was
00:39:11
um you tend not to consult Finance people and accounts people when you when you have these ideas
00:39:16
how have you found that battle between the two between your instinct and your vision and the money people going
00:39:23
this won't work this doesn't make sense I suspect that you're not you're the entrepreneur and and they're the CFO because you're the entrepreneur and they're the CFO so I think you just got
00:39:35
to believe in your your your your instinct and um and um uh and and go with it and if you create something you know I mean
00:39:46
we're just opening a new hotel in uh New York um you know if it's the best hotel in
00:39:53
New York even if it's gone over budget in in the building of it which it which it will have done
00:39:59
um uh the the best always succeeds um uh you know we we famously during covid uh launched a new Cruise Line virgin voyages
00:40:12
um uh you know it is you know so much better than any other Cruise Line out there um you know we've had two years where we've had to multiple the ships
00:40:24
um but you know we're stuck with it because we know that the quality is such that
00:40:30
um people will seek it out and and uh and the feedback's been you know spectacular I mean it's virgin at virgin
00:40:37
and its absolute best um I'm actually heading there this afternoon um you know it's fascinating each ship
00:40:43
has 78 different nationalities working on it you know 1200 people and they're just
00:40:51
the best and and it's adults only and it's a lot of fun and and uh but you know there were moments during covid that we did think you know we definitely chosen the wrong business
00:41:03
to launch virgin at its absolute best what does that mean what is Virgin at its best virgin at its best is when you launch a new company and you know that because
00:41:19
you know people have experienced previous virgin companies um that they will give it a try you
00:41:25
don't really have to even advertise um they they know that when they went on a version train uh when we ran the
00:41:31
network that it was you know really good quality when they went on a virgin plane it was great quality when they went in
00:41:38
diversion Health Club it was good quality um and so on um and um so you know that that gives us
00:41:45
a big Advantage with with the brand that that people have tried they've loved um and so when we launched something new like a cruise line they will give it a go and and we make sure that we don't
00:41:57
let them down and and and and and then you know having them try the cruise line if we decide to do a new Venture um you know week at week it's that much
00:42:08
easier for us to launch it off off the back of the cruise line you you are so synonymous with the the
00:42:15
Virgin I don't think I know a person who is as synonymous with their brand as an
00:42:20
individual so when you think of Virgin you think of Richard Branson we think of Richard Branson you think virgin
00:42:25
um and in 1985 you start doing some pretty extreme Adventures around the world which become
00:42:32
kind of pay into the brand and give give the brand extra meaning things like crossing crossing the Atlantic by boat
00:42:38
which sunk uh it seems like a lot of the uh the trips you took either collapse like fell out the sky into the into the
00:42:44
the sea or the boat sank um you set so many records through that period um so you know I was reading about you going 250 miles per hour in a hot air balloon
00:42:55
across the the Pacific from Japan to the Arctic in Canada again breaking um existing records at the time this became a real Hallmark of like the the Richard Branson and virgin brand these Extreme
00:43:06
Adventures was that intentional when you did that first one did you was was it because of a marketing thing or was it because of the fun of doing it for yourself it started out uh uh as
00:43:20
a mixture of the two but more uh we had one plane um and somebody said you know why don't
00:43:28
we try to bring the Blue Ribbon back to Britain for the fastest boat across the Atlantic
00:43:33
um and you know we could we can we can build this boat um and um uh but it ended up being much
00:43:41
more than just a marketing Adventure it became it became a real Adventure I mean it was you know tremendously exciting
00:43:47
and um I was in in my very early 30s and and um uh and you know it was tough but it was it was great fun
00:43:59
um there were you know lots of um moments of drama uh which there always are when you're trying something that's never really been tried before um including as you pointed out we sang
00:44:11
we sat before we got the whole way across um uh but um uh but anyway it makes for
00:44:17
a good documentary series um and it makes for a good book and and and and um and you know and it did put virgin on the map it made virgin a much more sexy brand a more adventurous brand than
00:44:32
say British Airways arrival um uh and and other another and other brands um uh I mean Virgin Atlantic cheekily took a full page ad when we
00:44:45
when we when we sank in the Atlantic the only thing that was sticking out of the Atlantic of the boat was um the brand
00:44:51
virgin and um and the ad just had the picture of the boat sticking out of the water and
00:44:57
and the ad said next time Richard take the plane and and of course there were people who
00:45:07
said you know what have you seen what if you end up in the in the Atlantic you you know no one's going to want to fly
00:45:13
an airline where and but of course it's quite the reverse it's it you know people
00:45:18
uh you know it helped put it helped put a tiny little Airline on the map and uh more effectively than anything else we could do and much more cheaply you mentioned that ad from um from your
00:45:31
competitor there in the moment competition is the arch enemy you know causing you a ton of
00:45:38
nuisance but as you look back on the competition you've had throughout the different Industries you've been in has the competition actually made you
00:45:45
stronger and better at what you've done yes and I think the reverse is also true
00:45:52
and that that uh you know these big public companies or big government-run companies like British Airways have been made the better um by having
00:46:05
um Virgin Atlantic innovating and you know them having to you know catch us up over the years and I think British Airways is a better company today than it was
00:46:16
um you know uh 38 years ago when we started so competition's good for all of us um big big and small and um and the only role that governments need to play is intervening when there's
00:46:30
unfair competition um and that's one of the most important roles the government can play
00:46:38
um is um uh uh is making sure that they set laws that encourage competition and don't stifle competition and uh and you know we've had uh yeah anyway
00:46:53
there have been books written about um uh about companies that have tried to stifle virgin in the past but um somehow we somehow we came through
00:47:05
there's this time now called personal branding which is become very popular predominantly because of social media and everybody having a channel and they
00:47:11
can build followers and they can try and tell the world who their company is using social media but you were kind of the first
00:47:17
CEO personal brand to many people because everything you did added value to the brand and it wasn't
00:47:24
just what virgin said I think when I look at your story it teaches me that the brand is what what the people do and
00:47:30
what the founder does becomes the brand more so than ever um and I think that's often what we lose
00:47:36
sight of and some of the best brands in the world like the Red Bulls of the world have figured out that the things
00:47:41
you do say much more about the brand than what you say yeah and you are like the perfect example of that in the early
00:47:46
90s you got in a bit of a struggle because of the broader economy and you ended up selling your record business
00:47:55
from all accounts and from speaking to some of your current team they said that this was a very difficult moment for you
00:48:01
that it was crushing I think the quote that I that I was told um is that accurate and why was it why was
00:48:06
it crushing oh look I think uh um if you think of your if you think of the um uh the things that you create like
00:48:19
children which um which I I do and and I'd think of it like that because it is just a bunch of people um and I mean you know your business is
00:48:30
yourself and a group of people um if you sell it it's light selling selling you know if you sell a company it's like selling a group of children and and that's um that's tough all round
00:48:44
um I needed to uh I needed a war chest to combat British Airways and and and and the dirty tricks that they were um uh they'd launched at virgin and
00:48:59
um and you know so you know the war chest um that that I thought I could best tap
00:49:05
into was Virgin Records um the good thing was that you know the the staff at Virgin Records
00:49:12
you know still had a had a job but um working for another company and the staff at Virgin Atlantic were safe because we had the financial clout to
00:49:23
um to deal to deal with our competitor um so there are you know there are obviously times in life where you have to make tough decisions like that and um uh and uh and yeah but it and move
00:49:38
and move on do you have any regrets about about how that happened by that phase um I have I I always think that if if anybody asks me if I ever have any regrets about anything it would be I'd
00:49:51
be a very sad person to answer you answered positively because you know I've had the most extraordinary life
00:49:58
um it's been full of you know interesting twists and turns um uh and I honestly really you can't think of anything I regret you know in the past [Music]
00:50:09
um they um and I think I really do think I'd be a sad person if I if I had regrets I mean it's just been uh uh rich with Rich with um uh you know
00:50:21
adventure and uh and and people and and and and I'm not somebody who looks back and by and large I mean obviously an interview like this I will but um uh and I suppose I've reached an age
00:50:35
where you know it's important to write books and it's important to do documentaries
00:50:40
and you know because it's important not to waste your life and and and and it's important to share what you've learned how did you feel yesterday watching the um docu series on your life
00:50:52
I was sat just behind you so I'd watch I'd look at the screen and I'd look at your reaction and I'd see you laughing sometimes
00:50:57
um I was emotionally drained to be honest um I I mean after the after party and I
00:51:05
just could not really get my what my words out for the first half an hour um uh it you know I found it quite you
00:51:12
know fairly exhausting um I mean they've it's incredible uh a really good documentary maker and Chris Smith is one of the best in the world I mean you know Prides himself on on his
00:51:26
independence which I respect completely and and so we you know we didn't have input into it
00:51:32
um you know obviously therefore not everything one's going to agree with and and not everything is you know in in my
00:51:40
brain would be exactly as as it was but you know 95 96 was was was as I see it and but but but just what is is incredible was the archive footage they managed to find
00:51:55
um you know considering we'd had my main house but went down and my main house blown down in a hurricane twice the fact that anything survived to be
00:52:07
able to make such a you know such a really full quite you know really quite exciting I think
00:52:13
um document documentary series was um you know I have to take my hat off to them
00:52:20
and then in the uh as I watched the last episode of the docu-series last night I
00:52:25
saw you once again in typical Richard Branson style set yourself a new frontier which was space
00:52:32
as if you you know as if all of that you'd done before wasn't enough you decided to aim for the Stars
00:52:40
why um so I remember um many many many years ago um when President Gorbachev was um
00:52:55
uh leader of Russia and he was trying to bring peristoca and bear a striker to the west and trying to put out peace signs
00:53:09
um he invited me to come to Russia to be the first person to go up in a Russian spaceship um but it would have meant a big check
00:53:21
um you know 60 million it would have meant um a year um learning Russian and being in Russia
00:53:27
and I just didn't have the time that uh and already the spare money to do something like that but it did just get
00:53:35
me thinking um you know that's an inordinate amount of money to charge for somebody to go to
00:53:41
space you know for that kind of money but we why why couldn't they just build start building a spaceship um and um and so we registered Virgin
00:53:51
Galactic Airways and um and I was set up where it went around the world trying to see if we could find
00:53:58
somebody to build us a spaceship and um and then just found this genius but return you know to me
00:54:06
um you know I've I've always dreamed of going to space one day um I think uh 50 of the people listening to this program will will have will have
00:54:17
dreamed or will dream of going to space 50 will think you know why why on Earth would you want to do that um but um you know it's it was the most extraordinary Day of My Life
00:54:29
um the my my trip to space and uh and uh and you know looking back at this beautiful beautiful Earth that we live on it was um uh from space whilst
00:54:43
it was floating uh um at the you know whilst floating with a lovely group of people um uh just an extraordinary um experience and um
00:54:55
uh and to be honest yeah to pinch pinch you pinch oneself moment to be doing it in a spaceship that we that we built and uh um and um
00:55:07
uh and uh yeah so it was a dream come true in that documentary we're also reminded of the the cost of all of these Endeavors at a moment when there's a
00:55:18
shot of you taking a phone call at your house learning that in the lead up to um virgin galactics going to space for
00:55:25
the first time an astronaut had died in one of the tests it's a very emotional scene but it
00:55:31
is a reminder of of um the cost of these great Endeavors to humanity that day when you receive that phone call and then you you rushed yourself to the to the to the site
00:55:43
what's on your mind so it's happened to me twice in my life um uh you know I was once in a cinema in um
00:55:56
uh in Europe uh with my kids and I my phone just kept kept vibrating and and and I ignored it and ignored it and then on the sort of
00:56:08
third or fourth time I decided to walk out of the cinema and check it um and one of our trains had come off um the track and um uh and you know
00:56:22
straight away I knew that you know um I just had to get to the scene of the accident and and
00:56:30
you know there were no flights that night so we had to had to drive through the through the night um and then yeah and and uh and then
00:56:38
anyway we got got there um early early in the morning the next day one lady had died and you know and I um went went to the morgue to meet the
00:56:50
relatives and um you know we we had a hug hug and um uh and um I mean fortunately it turned out it wasn't actually a virgin's fault but
00:57:02
um you know but you're still obviously responsible for um the fact that it was on a virgin train
00:57:09
um and um and uh and then you've got to as owner um you know confront talk to the press and and and and but it it I think the
00:57:22
fact that you make the fact that you make an effort and get get there quickly uh is very important and and the same
00:57:28
when when when we lost a test spaceship I knew straight away based on my previous experience with the train that I needed to be there as fast as possible
00:57:40
is there a conversation about discontinuing Virgin Galactic at that moment after losing that life yeah there
00:57:47
was I mean you know we I sat down with George Whiteside and just said you know is it you know asked our sales questions is it worth it is it worth um
00:58:00
you know is it worth continuing what what what would happen if we had a second accident um uh you know we would never never be
00:58:08
forgiven I mean it would you know it would um our reputations would be destroyed
00:58:13
um um uh um but then we then we spoke with all the all the engineers and um we spoke with many of the people who'd signed up
00:58:24
to go to space and and we spoke with the family and um of um uh of the pilot who who'd lost and with one with one voice they said you
00:58:36
know you just gotta you've got to continue um uh and um uh and we did and and uh we're still you know we're still
00:58:49
um you know we're still at the early stage of space travel and there's still risks I mean we think that
00:58:56
um you know we don't um you know we think that we're through all the big risks you know we've got to we can automatically switch off an engine if you know if anything's what
00:59:10
goes wrong with the rocket motor just and and we've got we've got astronauts actually flying flying our Craft
00:59:16
um but it is the it is it is the early stages and um but um but I think everybody everybody involved are doing it with their eyes open one of the most um beautiful
00:59:28
heart-wrenching scenes from the ducky series is in 2021 when you are months away from your first space flight on your on your own spaceship spacecraft space plane
00:59:40
whatever the terminology is um you've named it after your mother you've named the mothership after Eve and then tragically um she passes away from covid
00:59:54
before she has the chance to embark on that space journey with you which she was planning to do
01:00:00
that phase of your life when you lose your mother when you lose Eve what impact does that have on you and your mission and it it I mean first of all she'd
01:00:14
lived a a long life and an extraordinary life and and so it was um uh yeah uh and I mean you know I was very very fortunate in our family were
01:00:28
very fortunate to have had her around so long um and um uh and the absolute last thing
01:00:34
that she would have wanted was for for um for the mission or any missions to be held up um as a result of her death I mean you know she she will uh you know if there's
01:00:45
a star up there um she'll be on it and and I'm sure that she was there and uh there in spirit
01:00:53
when um when when I went to space and she definitely would have been smiling smiling down and down down at us with
01:00:59
with my dad Ted um and um uh so uh yeah and so I think when we when we lose loved ones we it's you know we you you live on you live on
01:01:13
through your parents and you know and your children live on through you and and your grandchildren live on through your your children and uh and you know
01:01:24
that's the sort of Wonder the wonders of life and when you came down from that space flight
01:01:29
um which is detailed in your your second memoir in the sort of updated version which has just been updated
01:01:36
you wrote a letter to your mum after coming down from space you said dear mum you always told me to reach for the stars well I took my own winding road
01:01:42
but I always knew when to follow your lead you always pushed us to our limits you were always a dreamer you urged me
01:01:47
to strive for every opportunity I saw you told me to Chase my wildest fantasies to live life to the full how
01:01:53
you lived how you loved and how you are missed yeah I mean she um you know I think uh uh yeah hopefully
01:02:07
um yeah when when people read the book they'll think about their own their own mums and dads and and and and you know
01:02:14
how how lucky lucky we are to have mums and dads who sacrifice so much for us and um and as as we're as we as we grow up and then obviously later on in life
01:02:26
um one can what you could one can give you know give give back and um looking after them as they get a
01:02:32
little bit older the docu series was a bit of a punch in the face from the start because that
01:02:37
because of that opening scene about your family where you're sat there ahead of your journey
01:02:43
to space trying to say some words to Holly Sam and Joan your wonderful wife and your kids just in case you never make it back from space this is something that you've done time and time again before you embarked
01:02:55
on these Journeys um really really difficult to watch really difficult to watch um and took me by by surprise because it was so early on in the film
01:03:10
why why was why is it so hard to to get those words out otherwise you seem like such a composed individual but when it
01:03:16
came to those words it seemed like you know multiple takes you got up you walked away you came back got it walked away and came back
01:03:24
so um so first of all I I do uh um I cried in happy films I cry on sad films my kids bring a box of tissues
01:03:35
when we when we go to the cinema or used to um and uh so that that as I am um uh you know even even now just talking to you I can feel tears my eyes
01:03:48
so um so um uh so it is it's not surprising for me to suddenly uh not not be able to get my get through my sentence sometimes
01:03:58
um but obviously look if you if you're uh if you're reading um if you're if you're if you're speaking about as if you as if you've
01:04:09
died to um you know to to your kids and your grandkids and yeah lots of emotions go
01:04:16
for your head at the time of saying of speaking I I suspect even the emotions of my God should I be you should you
01:04:23
know is it is it worth it and a lot a lot of the this documentary series is asking the question is it selfish is it
01:04:30
worth it is it uh is it is it is it is it something um uh is it is it something that um one should be doing um I remember
01:04:41
um I was in I was just taking off on to go across the Pacific in a hot air balloon and walking into this truck and um Jen third Kettle from ITN was just
01:04:56
finishing editing my obituary um in case I didn't come back and she said you know Richard do you want to sit and watch the obituary
01:05:07
um and I said why not and um and you know I sat and watched the obituary and again had a couple of tears in my eyes at the end of it but um but
01:05:18
um you know but I do think that in life well you know one advantage of doing these Adventures is actually you do
01:05:24
confront the ultimate inevitability of of um you know that you're not going to be
01:05:30
here forever and so you do think about uh you know have I left everything in order um you know what am I going to say to my children what am I going to say to my grandchildren a lot of people don't have
01:05:40
that opportunity because they they die suddenly so um you know it's so I have written quite
01:05:47
a few letters over the years uh in thinking that I just may not come back from this adventure or that Adventure
01:05:52
the documentary also shine a light on Joan who has clearly been this huge Rock in your life over the years she's a strong tenacious um honest very uh very to the point
01:06:06
wonderful woman what does she mean to you and what has she meant to you over the last 40 50 years oh um well I was lucky enough to meet her
01:06:18
45 years ago in a recording studio um uh called The Manor uh walked into the kitchen and just looked across the room and she was the most uh gorgeous
01:06:30
creature I'd ever seen in my life and it was in instantaneous love from me to her
01:06:36
and it took me a while the other way around but she's just a fantastic down to earth glass region um doesn't suffer fools gladly um
01:06:48
complete opposite to me um you know it doesn't play tennis doesn't uh run doesn't uh ski doesn't
01:06:56
climb mountains um you know it doesn't go adventuring but you know she's the most fantastic
01:07:02
mother for Holly and Sam and the grandkids um and um uh and she knows what matters in life um so you know I mean the the uh in in
01:07:14
the end I suppose what matters is you know the love you can give to your children
01:07:20
um uh the food on the table and uh um yeah but or above everything just unreserved love
01:07:31
um to to all everybody around her and and and uh and everything else is um uh is sort of icing on the cake you're a man synonymous with living a
01:07:45
life worth living one of the quotes from the film was about you know not living a life
01:07:50
um that is full of risk is not living at all words to that effect if I was Sam or Holly your kids and I asked you I said
01:07:58
Dad what's um what is a life worth living what what would you say to me I think just to for to first of all fulfill their own fulfill their own dreams I mean I mean not not to have
01:08:13
their father or mother push them into things they don't want to do so um you know I was lucky with my my daughter wanted to be a doctor and she she did the medic she became a doctor
01:08:26
she now helps this with our foundation um my son um wanted to make films and and uh and he's a musician basically which
01:08:37
is his main love and he and he does a little bit of both of those things um they're both fantastic parents and
01:08:43
they find the time for the grandkids um so I think just to um you know to follow to follow whatever dream it is that you have as best you can
01:08:55
um and um uh and yeah and you know we've been lucky that our kids have kids have um I think found that found their path in
01:09:08
life we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last last guest asks a
01:09:13
question for the next guest not knowing who they are asking it for um the question that has been left for
01:09:19
you is where were you when you when you felt most vulnerable and why I think I felt most vulnerable um relatively recently
01:09:38
um during the uh about six weeks into covid um when uh everything everything that we'd built up uh looked like it was crashing down
01:09:53
um uh and uh and interestingly when uh the sort of British press rather than being supported have really really turned on us
01:10:04
um uh and uh and but fortunately you know my kids and grandkids and everybody arrived um um around about that same time and uh
01:10:18
and the team just got down and worked really hard day and night to make sure we kept as many jobs safe as as possible
01:10:26
and um uh and uh and I think pretty well every version company got through it and
01:10:34
pretty well every every employee jobs got protected um but but that was that was maybe the
01:10:40
toughest time in um toughest time in my life for you know suddenly it just looked like one for
01:10:46
your reputation and everything else was going out of the window but covid was tough for so many people and um um but um yeah but but um we've we've
01:10:57
held it to Holly and several members of your team reference that as being um your toughest moment but the word tough is just a word if I Zoomed In And if I was there what would
01:11:09
have and I was you what would I have seen and what would I have felt when you say the word tough well I think I I
01:11:15
think that um I I've never understood uh depression um uh and I and I think I understood
01:11:25
it's like you know that where people get depression from after that experience um and it was good you know it's good to under you know it's good to have gone through it myself a bit I mean it didn't
01:11:37
last too long um because I've you know brought up by you know parents who've you know been through the second world war and you couldn't waste your time you know getting depressed you know they're much far worse things than being
01:11:51
depressed um but anyway it it took it taught me to understand it which I think will
01:11:56
hopefully make me better understand other people's depression in the years to come what were the symptoms of that
01:12:04
ah what were the symptoms of it that's very difficult to to pinpoint the symptoms but you know look you just you just feel very sorry for yourself for a day or two
01:12:18
and then you just have to snap out of it and and and get you know my mum my mum would have if she'd been alive and what
01:12:25
she was but I mean if I talked to her about it she would have told me to pull myself together and just and and and get
01:12:32
back to work and uh and um and I think within two or three days you know her her words would have been ringing in my head and and I would have um overcome it and I did overcome it but
01:12:45
it just you know you just did a taste of it anyway Richard so Richard Branson thank you so
01:12:50
much for your time um I you to me you've when I started this podcast you were the name you were
01:12:56
the name that if one day I could speak to on this podcast I think we might as well pack it up and finish because to me
01:13:01
as a entrepreneur my whole life you've always been the north star of entrepreneurs you've represented and
01:13:06
embodied what it is to be a entrepreneur that's striving for to create better in everything you do I had the pleasure of
01:13:13
researching your story again now at 30 years old and it's been a tremendous source of inspiration for me
01:13:20
um to meet you today to get to come and watch your docu-series is one of the highlights of my entire entrepreneurial
01:13:25
career and life and definitely this podcast so thank you so much for that because I'm I'm not sure you'll ever
01:13:31
really appreciate how much of an impact you have on people like me um so I want to make sure that all I have you here I have a chance to tell
01:13:37
you and to thank you for that because you've definitely changed my life and um I know I'm not the only person um so
01:13:43
thank you your book is amazing the docu-series was so captivating I stayed up till about 3am and last night making
01:13:48
sure I watched all of it and then watched it the last episode again this morning and I implore everybody to go and check it out now on HBO
01:13:56
um but yeah the most important thing is I just wanted to say thank you well thank you back and and yeah many many
01:14:03
congratulations on all you've achieved and all all and being a young bastard or you will achieve in the years to come thank you Richard
01:14:14
quick one from our longest standing sponsor hero I I can't tell you over the last I'd say over the last really it's been about two and a half years it was really um post pandemic how much my
01:14:25
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01:14:30
it's funny because as you get older you can start to feel the things you're putting into your body more and more and more
01:14:36
um and if I if I put something into my body especially things like gluten if I put those things in my body I feel them tremendously the next day my energy
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levels my sleep and everything in between huel has been probably the most important partner in my health Journey
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01:16:07
thank you