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What the heck is secular progressive
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homeschooling? That is what this former
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conservative Christian homeschooler was
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wondering. Thankfully, today's guest is
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going to break it all down for us. This
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is the Exhomeschoolers Club, and I'm
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your host, Jacob Gooden. If you're new
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here, this is the show where we talk
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about the good, the bad, and the ugly of
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growing up a homeschooled kid. And if
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you're returning exhie, what is up?
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Welcome back. Thank you for being here
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today. Today's guest is Ashley Peak, who
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is not only a current homeschool parent,
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but also a content creator and a
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podcaster. You can find everything she's
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doing at Secular Homeschool Revolution.
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That'll be linked down in the
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description below. But Ashley and I got
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connected via social media, and I just
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knew I wanted to have her on the show.
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Today, we're going to talk about why she
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chose to homeschool her kids, how she's
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doing it a little bit differently. We're
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going to talk about finding the
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community that was right for her, or
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actually not really finding the
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community, instead actually ended up
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building the community that was right
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for her and her kiddos. and uh now even
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getting into like doing some micro
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schooling and some other really cool
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things that are happening in Texas.
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Okay, so stay tuned, lock in. This is a
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great conversation and I hope you enjoy.
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[music]
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Well, Ashley, welcome to the
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exhomeschoolers club. I'm so excited to
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have you uh here with me today.
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>> I'm really excited to be here, too.
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Especially since you came up on my for
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you page on TikTok.
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>> Yeah. No, I that's I was going to bring
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that up. That's kind of how we got
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connected is social media and you know
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obviously um you know I post homeschool
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videos, you post homeschool videos. I
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think the algorithm just knew we we
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needed to meet. Um and so I was really
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intrigued with your content because you
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are a secular homeschool mom. So that's
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the other thing that's going to be
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really cool about today's conversation,
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talking to a current homeschool parent.
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Um and like exploring like how things
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have changed cuz I've been out of it for
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a decade at this point. but and and I
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was a Christian home school kid. So,
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just kind of the whole flip side of
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everything that's just different and I'm
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just like so excited to like have a
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conversation with you and learn about
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like what's new essentially. So, Ashley,
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I'd love if you kind of like kick us off
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a little bit. Tell me a little bit about
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like your homeschool journey, like what
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led you to choosing to homeschool your
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kids. Give me kind of like the what a
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typical day in the life maybe looks
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like. Maybe it's every day is very
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different, but like set the stage a
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little bit for us. Okay. So, I do want
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to clarify. I do categorize myself as a
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secular progressive homeschooler. Um,
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and I think that's a relatively new term
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in homeschooling in itself. Um, because
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you have the branches of like Christian,
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then you have secular, then you have
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like the secular progressive
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homeschoolers. Um, and I didn't
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initially think of that when I started
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my homeschooling journey. I never saw
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myself as a homeschooling parent. And if
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I'm being transparent, I hated school. I
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started skipping school in sixth grade.
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I had teachers who were unsupportive.
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Um, and I graduated with a lot of gaps.
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Um, so it took me I took a lot of
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remedial classes to catch up. Um, and so
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that was why I never saw myself as a
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homeschooling parent. Um, but when my
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kid was about six, we found out that she
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needed an IEP and I was like, great, the
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school system will support her. And it
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became this upward battle. I didn't
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understand why it was so difficult to
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get my kid the services that she needed.
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And I was working at the time, but I had
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to quit because I spending so much time
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at the school right when we got
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everything approved. Why isn't she
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having her accommodations? why am I
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having to micromanage these things? Um,
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and then I eventually had to have when
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it was time to like check on her
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services or update them, she still
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didn't get fully what she needed. And so
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I had to get a friend who was working as
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a special education advocate to like
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give me information on how I can push
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this further. And it got ridiculous cuz
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she was like, "You're you're advocating
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for your kids, so don't take no for an
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answer." And she's visually impaired.
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So, the things that I wanted was like a
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lamp desk, a lamp at her desk, a slant
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board, and why was that so hard? And I
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also couldn't bring it because it was a
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liability. And she needed a few other
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things, but again, it it it wasn't
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anything super expensive or drastic,
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right? And
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I got frustrated because I ended up
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sitting in a six-hour IEP meeting. Like,
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we look we we had a little break from
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lunch and we're still going back and
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forth on these things. And I said, you
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know what? I had a conversation with my
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husband. I was like, "This isn't the
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best fit." So, I found a small private
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school. And I thought because it was I
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think it was like less than 10 kids in
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the class that it would be a better
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situation. It was not. And
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traditionally, private schools aren't
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equipped to support kids who have IEPs.
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And I kind of knew that, but I thought,
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well, her accommodations are so simple.
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It could be met at a small Christian
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school. And it was a Christian private
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school. and my family isn't religious,
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but I thought we could just overlook
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those parts. And it it was really
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difficult. And then it became harder
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when she wasn't getting supported. Um,
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and then we tried a small charter
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school. Charter schools traditionally
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aren't equipped either to support kids
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with IEPs. I'm like, "My kid is visually
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impaired. Why would I come up here?" Cuz
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I joined the PTA because I'm a
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helicopter mom cuz my kid isn't getting
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what she needs. And I'm like, "Why is
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she sitting in the back of the room? Why
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are we keep putting her back in the back
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of the room?" and she's a quiet kid and
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so I could see how she probably was not
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a priority in the sense of the kids who
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are more rowdy or more outspoken or and
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okay she's you're the teacher's telling
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me she's not reading at grade level
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she's not doing these things so the
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system ultimately was failing her
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because I'm sitting in the meetings I'm
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transitioning her to school so again I
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talk to my husband and I'm looking into
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homeschooling and I hear all the
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negative stereotypes so I'm like I don't
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know. And we were just like, you know
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what? Let's just do it. We jumped in.
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And it was scary. It was hard the first
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year. And
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I was overwhelmed. Um because I also had
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a kid that was three turning four. So
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jumping into homeschooling with two kids
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essentially was a lot to handle. And
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then I started looking at the resources
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and a lot of them were very
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Christian-based. And like I mentioned
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earlier, we're not a religious family.
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Um, so it became really hard and because
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they were young, it was easier to piece
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together curriculum. So we were at the
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library a lot. I'm googling 2 3:00 in
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the morning because also it's my first
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year. I'm looking for material. I'm up
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having like parent anxiety at 2 three in
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the morning where I'm like asleep and
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I'm like, "Oh my gosh, do I have a
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lesson for next week?" D. And so that is
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essentially how I got started into
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homeschooling.
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>> I Yeah. Do I How How long have you been
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homeschooling now?
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>> We are going on almost eight years. So,
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it has And it's crazy because I like to
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say I was a homeschooler before COVID
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because I think CO was responsible for a
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lot of change in the homeschooling
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world. And I know as a secular
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homeschooler, it's brought a lot of new
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materials. It brought a lot of new
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people to the community. And that's like
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the one thing I'm thankful for out of co
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>> I Yeah, cuz I was going to ask like
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how cuz I know you're based out of Texas
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and so I was I was doing a little
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research. I was like, "Okay, what states
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have the highest homeschool like
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populations and it's California and
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Texas. I grew up in California, big
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homeschool groups. You're in Texas
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obviously big homeschool groups there as
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well." And um and so it's interesting
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because as I've interviewed other people
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from other states, I've been New Jersey
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and Ohio and like all these other
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states, they they talk about like well
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there's just not like there's not like
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builtout community, there's not co-ops,
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there's nothing here, but California,
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Texas seem to have some massive
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homeschool groups. And so as you were
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getting started, were you already
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looking at like co-op community
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opportunities for your kids or were you
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like, "Okay, we're just going to like
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pull pulling the kids out. we're going
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to do it all at home. The very
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stereotypical like I not isolation, but
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just kind of like, okay, we're keeping
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everything at the house right from the
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get-go.
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>> It was a hard first year and part of it
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was I didn't have community support. And
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when you look at statistics on why
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people leave homeschooling, it's because
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they don't have support going through.
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And so I was like, I'm feeling lonely.
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This is feeling like a silo. And that's
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when I started learning about the co-ops
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and community meetup groups and
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everything. And actually my first me and
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I'm a very um talkative, outgoing,
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friendly person, so I don't ever feel
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like anybody's a stranger. And I go to
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my first meetup and there wasn't any
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people of color. And then this is when
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this was I think after Trump came into
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office. And so we were just talking and
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politics came up and my politics didn't
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agree with him. And it was crazy because
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like we were talking in a group and then
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all of a sudden people started shifting
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away from me and then they were calling
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their kids. I was like, "Wow, you wow."
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Okay. Um and and I still was like,
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"Wow." And then I go to a second group
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and I hear again there was no people of
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color and I I'm trying to spark up
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conversation because I know it's kind of
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hard when people have known each other
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for years or months and the new person's
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trying to get in there. So I was like,
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"Oh, is there a such thing as, you know,
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a a homeschooling Girl Scout troop?" Oh,
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the eyes. It was like, "Uh, no. It's
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they're they're terrible. They support
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abortion. They do all these things. you
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need to look into American Heritage. And
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I'm like, oh. And so on my phone, right?
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And I'm like, oh. I was like, what? They
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don't sell cookies. And they didn't
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think that was funny. [laughter]
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And so then it was like, well, what do
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you like about Girl Scouts? And it again
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became weird. And then I did go to
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another one that was more diverse, but
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they were more Christianle leaning. And
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religion and politics kept coming up and
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it we just weren't aligned. And I will
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say I did go to one playgroup and it it
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was a small playgroup, but it was a lot
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of parents going in and out of public
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school. So I felt like
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I felt lonely again, right? Cuz I wasn't
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I wasn't feeling motivated to try other
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groups, if that makes sense.
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>> That totally makes sense. I mean like as
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someone who grew up in like the
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Christian community, homeschool
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communities, every home school community
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I was a part of was a Christian
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organization and everybody that I knew
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as far as far as I knew everybody was a
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Christian and we all had these aligned
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values and it it just very much
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it built a bubble and so I could imagine
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Ashley if you if you and your family had
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showed up we would have probably given
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you unfortunately some of the same
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stairs and some of the same like what is
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going on who are these people and that's
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very unfortunate uh to begin with. But
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so how did you then come to like find
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your people out of that because like
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that's
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overwhelming. It
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>> it is overwhelming. But I do want to
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tell you Jacob, thank you for stating
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that because when I've had that say and
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I'm sh I've shared that same scenario
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with other Christian homeschoolers. they
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look at me like I'm exaggerating or I'm
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crazy and I was like, "Wait, you've
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never done this to people or you just
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don't want to acknowledge that you've
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done that to people." Um, and so it was
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weird. Um, but I appreciate your honesty
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in that way. Um, so again, I'm a very
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social, outgoing person. So I would just
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take my kids to the park and you know,
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I'm I'm picking up people and it was
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like, "Oh, okay. This is a great
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conversation. We're adding each other on
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social media." And then somebody
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randomly posted that they were having a
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pool party. And so I was like, "Huh,
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they there looks like there's some
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diversity in responding to this
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comment." And so I end up going to the
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pool party with my kids. And we started
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talking. We started vibing. And then we
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were like, "Hey, maybe we should
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formalize some things." And we created a
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Facebook page. And it was just three of
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us initially. And we were posting
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consistently about park dates and we
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were very um intentional about posting
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pictures to make sure we were drawing
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in, you know, diverse people and we were
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very clear that we were secular. And
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again, I wasn't raised religious, so I
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didn't understand how triggering the
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word secular was for people. Um,
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and I think that's when I really started
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leaning into my journey of like secular
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progressive homeschooling because even
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though these people were coming to a
00:13:02
secular space, they still were bringing
00:13:04
religion and a very I wouldn't say
00:13:07
narrow-minded but very conservative
00:13:09
views. I think that's better. Very
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conservative views. And I was hearing
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things that weren't allowed aligned with
00:13:16
my values. And I do want to say I do
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think like you were saying y'all were
00:13:21
grouped into a bubble. I do think it's
00:13:23
important for kids to have a variety of
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experiences. But if these are your like
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chosen people that you're building
00:13:28
community with, I would like to not feel
00:13:31
ostracized because of my values. Like
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I'm not homophobic. I I don't believe in
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purity culture. You know, so it was
00:13:39
these things that I'm hearing that
00:13:40
weren't aligned aligned with me. And so
00:13:42
I was like, okay, how can we make this
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clear that this is that's not accepted
00:13:48
in this space. Um, and so we started
00:13:50
posting more direct messages and slowly
00:13:53
but surely by fall like we had a huge
00:13:56
Halloween party. So again, we started
00:13:59
around July and by October we had over a
00:14:02
hundred people attend our Halloween
00:14:06
party. Um, and I think it has a lot to
00:14:08
do with our consistency and posting. um
00:14:11
because you know people are joining the
00:14:13
homeschooling community on a daily
00:14:15
basis. So, and a lot of the families
00:14:17
that joined us were new families. I
00:14:20
think that's really interesting too that
00:14:22
the the words secular and progressive
00:14:25
like are
00:14:27
so triggering when we talked before that
00:14:29
was like you you brought up that like
00:14:31
those words in particular have they
00:14:34
maybe uh put some people on edge a
00:14:36
little bit but also like it's such an
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you were very clear in your messaging
00:14:40
which I think is important and that's
00:14:42
one of the things that even looking as
00:14:44
I've done more research into like the
00:14:46
groups I was a part of growing up there
00:14:48
is very clear messaging of like what
00:14:50
they are. These are Christian homeschool
00:14:52
groups and I think that's that's
00:14:54
important. They're very clear on this is
00:14:56
what we believe, this is where we stand,
00:14:57
that type of thing. And so to your point
00:15:00
of like finding the community that works
00:15:02
for you and like that messaging needs to
00:15:05
be very clear because it's really easy
00:15:07
to get just into a home school group
00:15:08
that you're like, "Okay, yeah,
00:15:09
everything's good and it seems good."
00:15:11
And then all of a sudden it's like flags
00:15:13
are going up. And diversity is important
00:15:16
in thought process and all those types
00:15:17
of things, but you also do need some
00:15:19
people who you can align with. You can
00:15:21
have healthy conversation with who are
00:15:22
not going to
00:15:24
talking about.
00:15:25
>> Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it's funny
00:15:27
how it's not funny, but I appreciate you
00:15:29
again stating when you went back and
00:15:31
looked at the messaging from your
00:15:33
previous groups, that's accepted. Like
00:15:35
that is accepted in the homeschooling
00:15:37
group. But when you start wording, you
00:15:40
know, you're centering, you know, black
00:15:42
and brown kids experiences and you're
00:15:44
working on decolonizing history and just
00:15:46
like your group meups, that's a problem
00:15:49
for people and but we're we why can't we
00:15:52
coexist in the same way that you're
00:15:54
existing and for some reason there's
00:15:57
there's been a little push back on that?
00:15:59
>> So So tell me like what are the main
00:16:03
differences? I maybe that's the wrong
00:16:05
word, but like what is secular
00:16:07
progressive homeschooling look like and
00:16:09
what do you see as it being like what is
00:16:11
the difference there between like a
00:16:12
traditional Christian conservative
00:16:15
homeschool group?
00:16:17
>> Well, for I would say that my experience
00:16:19
or my definition of like a secular
00:16:21
progressive homeschooler is, you know,
00:16:23
I'm an ally to the queer community. I
00:16:26
believe in Black Lives Matter. I also
00:16:29
believe in science and evolution in that
00:16:32
way. I don't support creationism. Um so
00:16:36
that's not what I teach my kids. That's
00:16:38
not what's explored necessarily in my
00:16:41
homeschooling community. And um we try
00:16:44
to offer a justice centered education.
00:16:48
And I think in order to offer a justice-
00:16:51
centered education, we have to look at
00:16:53
history in a way from you know
00:16:56
everybody's perspective to see how were
00:16:58
people contributing to that time whether
00:17:01
it was a great experience or a negative
00:17:03
experience. We have to acknowledge it
00:17:05
right and we look at books. We look at
00:17:07
banned books. We look at why are these
00:17:09
books being banned? You don't want your
00:17:12
kids to have access to a queer
00:17:13
experience, right? and and and it and it
00:17:17
doesn't always it's not always
00:17:18
salacious, but because that is what's
00:17:21
represented, you know, people get all
00:17:24
with their panties in a bunch. Um and so
00:17:26
we I think if I'm giving my kids access
00:17:28
to all of these stories, they'll have a
00:17:30
more expanded world view rather than if
00:17:34
I'm, you know, centering it. And I've
00:17:38
noticed within the Christian
00:17:40
homeschooling, there is a lot of um
00:17:44
Bible and God laced into a lot of the
00:17:47
curriculums and the curriculums are not
00:17:50
diverse. The book lists aren't diverse.
00:17:53
We're not looking at history from all
00:17:54
perspectives. It's a very limited view.
00:17:57
I'm thankful. I was um I did an episode
00:18:00
a few weeks ago at this point um
00:18:02
probably two months ago at this point um
00:18:05
about and I kind of had gone through
00:18:07
some of the curriculum that I used and
00:18:08
and I'm thankful that the history that
00:18:10
my mom had put us through was it has a
00:18:13
little bit of a Christian vein. However,
00:18:15
it is more accepted as like a a better
00:18:19
understanding of history. is looking at
00:18:21
some of that difference. And while some
00:18:24
of the other things that I maybe went
00:18:26
through were not quite as diverse or not
00:18:28
quite as as inclusive. Um it is
00:18:31
interesting now as an adult to like go
00:18:34
to some of those places, go to some of
00:18:35
those historical areas cuz now I live in
00:18:37
the south. Um grew up on the west coast
00:18:39
like we don't have civil war history um
00:18:41
there as far as like actually going in
00:18:43
person to see it, right? And so now
00:18:44
living in the south, I'm like, "Oh, I
00:18:46
can actually go to some of these
00:18:47
battlefields, plantations, all those
00:18:49
types of things and experience what it
00:18:51
looks like and hear a firsthand
00:18:54
accounts. Not maybe not a firsthand
00:18:55
account, but I can hear like a
00:18:56
generational account of the
00:18:58
experiences." And um anyway, so what I
00:19:03
find so interesting about like what
00:19:06
you're doing too is that like I I love
00:19:09
what you're doing first of all because I
00:19:10
am a huge advocate for like kind of
00:19:12
hearing all these different like
00:19:14
viewpoints on things and I believe that
00:19:16
like difficult conversations within
00:19:18
families is like an important thing. And
00:19:20
so having your kid be able to read
00:19:22
something and maybe you know, okay, so
00:19:24
like what happens when two girls, you
00:19:26
know, like each other and it's romantic
00:19:28
or, you know, what about this aspect or
00:19:30
what, you know, and you you brought up
00:19:31
like people viewing it as like salacious
00:19:33
or things like that, but it opens up
00:19:36
conversations in your household that I
00:19:37
think are important to have, right? As
00:19:40
opposed to just very much like this is
00:19:43
the viewpoint, this is what we believe
00:19:45
and like that's it. We don't touch
00:19:47
anything outside of that. So, have you
00:19:49
even seen that within your own home of
00:19:51
just like the diversity of like
00:19:52
conversation being able to be had with
00:19:53
you and your kids?
00:19:55
>> Yes. So, I absolutely believe in having
00:19:58
an open and honest um household and so I
00:20:04
appreciate the fact and I think that's
00:20:05
telling in the in the way that I'm
00:20:07
raising my kids that they are absolutely
00:20:11
comfortable sometimes too comfortable
00:20:12
asking questions and wanting answers
00:20:15
like for instance like sex. So, you
00:20:18
know, sex can be a difficult
00:20:20
conversation for a lot of parents with
00:20:22
their kids. And so, I was like, "Okay,
00:20:23
so you have these questions. I'm not
00:20:26
scared of it. Um, I also don't always
00:20:28
have the tools to directly have the
00:20:30
conversation." So, you know, I got the
00:20:33
book, Sex is a Funny Word, and we were
00:20:35
able to go in graphic novel style, but I
00:20:37
appreciated that they were able to come
00:20:39
and talk to me rather than their friends
00:20:41
having that conversation with them or
00:20:44
they find it on the internet because if
00:20:45
you type in the word, it's not going to
00:20:47
take you to an educational website.
00:20:49
[laughter] And so, I love that we can
00:20:52
have these open and honest conversations
00:20:55
and when they become adults, they'll be
00:20:57
able to approach it in such a healthy
00:20:59
way. Um, but I do think it starts with
00:21:01
explaining to them, a this is how your
00:21:04
body works. This is where it
00:21:05
transitions. This is how it transitions.
00:21:07
And I think all but people when they
00:21:09
hear sex, they automatically think it's
00:21:11
the get it on. But there's so much more
00:21:13
information prior to that that we don't
00:21:16
talk about. And for some reason,
00:21:18
especially even in schools, it's it's
00:21:21
shunned.
00:21:22
>> I just did a whole series on the podcast
00:21:25
talking about I reread a a purity
00:21:28
culture book. um called I kiss dating
00:21:30
goodbye by Josh Harris. Very in the in
00:21:32
the Christian world, it's known as like
00:21:34
literally the worst dating book uh
00:21:36
possible. Um
00:21:37
>> but it was interesting. Yeah,
00:21:40
>> it's up there as far as just bad books
00:21:43
overall because it's all about throwing
00:21:45
away traditional dating and sexuality
00:21:47
and basically bringing in like a very
00:21:49
courtship style
00:21:52
saving yourself for marriage and all
00:21:53
these types of things. And so, um, but I
00:21:56
appreciate what you're doing because,
00:21:58
yeah, it was very awkward to talk about
00:21:59
sex as a kid. It was very awkward to
00:22:01
talk about sexuality and all these
00:22:03
different things. And it all got lumped
00:22:04
in together and it was just like bad,
00:22:06
bad, bad, bad bad um, and maybe hint at
00:22:09
a little thing here or a little thing
00:22:10
there. And yes, of course, my dad gave
00:22:12
me like the birds and the bees
00:22:13
conversation and things like that, but
00:22:15
um, it wasn't enough. Um, I'll say that
00:22:20
like now as an adult, I've had to
00:22:22
re-educate myself on so much. And so
00:22:23
many of my friends, the same deal. I was
00:22:24
like, I've had to re-educate ourselves.
00:22:26
And there are so many times now, it's
00:22:28
funny, we talk and we go, man, I wish my
00:22:30
parents would have just been able to
00:22:31
explain this to me as a kid. And there
00:22:34
are so many ways that like I've read
00:22:35
some of these books that explain sex to
00:22:38
to a younger kid, and I'm like, this
00:22:40
would have made so much sense and not
00:22:42
been too graphic, not been, you know,
00:22:45
not been awful. So, um, yeah. So, I
00:22:49
appreciate what you're doing there
00:22:50
because that's just that's another big
00:22:52
area that like I just have my own
00:22:54
internalized traumas from all of that
00:22:56
kind of kind of thing. And I know that a
00:22:57
lot of us ex homeschooler Christian
00:22:59
kids, we have that. And so, hearing that
00:23:02
there's a new generation of
00:23:03
homeschoolers coming that have that and
00:23:05
are equipped with that education. Wow,
00:23:07
that makes me feel a lot better. Even
00:23:10
with your podcast, like I said, I came
00:23:11
across it as well on my for you page on
00:23:14
Tik Tok. And I'm a person that never
00:23:17
likes to be the smartest person in the
00:23:19
room or assume that I know everything.
00:23:22
And I am a first generation
00:23:24
homeschooling parent. And so I'm looking
00:23:29
to learn from other people's
00:23:30
experiences, whether it's good or bad.
00:23:33
And so I've read the Reddit threads and
00:23:36
it's it I would the questions that you
00:23:38
ask from people's experiences is what I
00:23:41
want to know when I'm looking at these
00:23:42
discussion boards or I'm in these
00:23:44
Facebook groups because you don't always
00:23:45
get like the clarity around whatever
00:23:47
statement or experience that's being
00:23:49
shared. Um so I'm like, "Oh, okay. This
00:23:51
was traumatic. Let me check make sure
00:23:53
I'm I'm I'm aware of this." And I also I
00:23:56
think your podcast has made me realize
00:23:58
is that my kids might resent me for
00:24:01
making this choice. Um, and while I
00:24:04
think it's like the most amazing thing
00:24:06
ever, their their experience is their
00:24:09
own. And even with me having three kids,
00:24:12
they're still having their own
00:24:14
experiences in this household and it's
00:24:16
not going to be identical. So, you know,
00:24:18
one of them might hate this choice,
00:24:20
another one might love it, and the other
00:24:22
one's like, "Well, I do have some
00:24:24
resentment towards you, but it is what
00:24:26
it is." Um, because there's just no way
00:24:28
to fill up all of their cups. But it was
00:24:32
a decision that I made and and in full
00:24:35
transparency, I think I was open at one
00:24:37
point to putting them in public school.
00:24:39
Um, but then when I'm looking at how,
00:24:42
you know, educational politics are going
00:24:44
right now, I'm not as supportive of them
00:24:47
going to public school right now. So,
00:24:49
I'm constantly, you know, asking them
00:24:51
what are they feeling, what are they
00:24:53
needing, so that I can try to offer
00:24:55
that. Um, and so that's how we opened a
00:24:58
co-op. Um, and it is a secular
00:25:01
progressive homeschooling space, and I'm
00:25:04
really proud of it again because it's
00:25:06
the same three families that started it.
00:25:08
And now we maxed out at 60 kids every
00:25:11
Wednesday from you know 10 to 2. We
00:25:14
often have waiting lists to be a part of
00:25:16
our groups and we're like okay there's a
00:25:18
waiting list and so we've added on a
00:25:21
part where it's just field trips since
00:25:22
we don't have the room for you in our
00:25:24
Wednesday co-op. We offer weekly field
00:25:26
trips or meetups and gatherings but
00:25:29
bottom of the line is there were people
00:25:31
who were wanting and needing the space.
00:25:34
Well, let's break down your co-op a
00:25:36
little bit and like talk about what a
00:25:38
Wednesday looks like and how you guys
00:25:39
have it structured because like I have
00:25:41
my own experiences with co-ops. The most
00:25:43
famous one I talk about on the show is
00:25:44
group solutions. It was a one day every
00:25:47
two weeks. It was like a Friday and it
00:25:50
was three class periods and it was like
00:25:52
very kind of a traditional school
00:25:54
setting where it's like we go in, we
00:25:55
have some kind of teacher that's
00:25:56
teaching there's a plethora of subjects.
00:25:58
Could be science, could be something fun
00:26:00
like just how to play board games.
00:26:02
That's how I learned to play poker.
00:26:03
Surprise, surprise. Christian homeschool
00:26:05
community.
00:26:06
>> Gambling.
00:26:07
>> Mom taught me how to play poker. Yeah.
00:26:09
Yeah. Well, we didn't gamble, but we
00:26:11
Yeah. But we were like Yeah. But I don't
00:26:13
know. I don't remember what we played
00:26:14
with, but Yeah. It was We were told it
00:26:16
wasn't gambling. It was just Yeah. This
00:26:18
is how you play blackjack and this is
00:26:19
how you play poker. Yeah. Um but yeah.
00:26:22
So, walk me through like what your co-op
00:26:23
looks like and how like a Wednesday is
00:26:25
structured for you guys.
00:26:27
>> Okay. So, we currently have ages 4
00:26:30
through 17 and they're broken up into
00:26:33
five age groups. Um, when they arrive to
00:26:37
co-op, we do like a quick 15minute
00:26:40
morning session. Um, just to get good
00:26:42
vibes in the air. So, people share
00:26:44
things that they're excited about or
00:26:45
what brought them joy for the week from
00:26:47
the last time that we saw them. And then
00:26:49
we all chant an affirmation just to get
00:26:52
more good vibes going. And it's
00:26:54
basically celebrating who they are. and
00:26:57
that they don't have to be like other
00:26:59
people and their journey is their
00:27:00
journey. And then we break off to two
00:27:02
classes before lunch and then they come
00:27:05
back for one more class and then we go
00:27:08
into clubs.
00:27:10
And we do um offer very progressive
00:27:14
classes like we've done anti-racist
00:27:17
kitchen where we're looking at foods and
00:27:19
looking to see how they were gentrified.
00:27:21
when we taught Texas history, we taught
00:27:23
it from an indigenous, we started it
00:27:25
from an indigenous perspective and move
00:27:27
forward. Um, we taught like the history
00:27:30
of Harlem Renaissance and an ethnic
00:27:32
studies class. We do science, we do
00:27:35
dissections, we do an experiment class.
00:27:38
Um, so I'm very fortunate for the
00:27:40
parents that we have. Oh, we taught
00:27:42
borders and bias and you know, what does
00:27:44
fascism look like throughout history?
00:27:46
Um, so I'm excited that we have parents
00:27:49
who are about the mission and are able
00:27:51
to offer the classes that they do. And
00:27:55
often our kids are like, I wish I was in
00:27:56
this class, but I don't want to leave
00:27:58
this class. And so it's a good feeling
00:28:00
to have that kids want to take so many
00:28:02
different classes that we offer. Um,
00:28:04
every Wednesday, you know, from 10 to 10
00:28:08
to 2:30 that we have them going.
00:28:11
>> And then what what do the clubs look
00:28:12
like? So is that like more of like a
00:28:15
traditional after school club or you
00:28:17
know like I'm envisioning chess club
00:28:19
when you said that but I I would assume
00:28:21
it's a little bit more diverse than
00:28:22
that.
00:28:23
>> So I'm really excited. Our clubs are
00:28:26
mostly led by our kids and so for
00:28:29
instance my kid is co-leading a writing
00:28:32
club. She's really into writing.
00:28:35
She's writing her own book. Her friend
00:28:37
is also writing a book. And these girls
00:28:40
really went all out. So, they created
00:28:42
lesson plans for six weeks. They created
00:28:44
Google Slides. They created homework
00:28:47
that the kids have to upload. I'm like,
00:28:48
"Hey, what kind of club is this?" But we
00:28:51
also have a crochet club. We have a Lego
00:28:54
club. We have an improv club. And so,
00:28:57
and we also have like silent book
00:28:59
reading for our kids who, you know, at
00:29:02
the end of the day are over stimulated.
00:29:03
So, it is so nice that they are able to
00:29:06
create a space and like acknowledge this
00:29:09
is what they need at the end of the day.
00:29:10
And we also have a book club that isn't
00:29:13
silent. Um, and then you like we have
00:29:15
like a spirituality uh club where
00:29:18
they're just talking and like doing
00:29:20
vision boards and manifestations.
00:29:22
And so it is really cool. And like my
00:29:26
kid's 13, but then we have another kid
00:29:28
who's 17 and another kid who's nine that
00:29:30
are leading these clubs in such a great
00:29:32
way. And I love that that is truly what
00:29:35
a child experience looks like,
00:29:37
especially in a community space. I think
00:29:39
what's cool too is like homeschooling
00:29:42
also provides kids such an opportunity
00:29:44
to do whatever the things that they're
00:29:45
passionate about, right? So whether
00:29:47
that's music or writing or uh you
00:29:50
mentioned all the other clubs that you
00:29:51
guys have, the improv club and things
00:29:52
like that, it's like that's so cool that
00:29:55
those things are like you guys are
00:29:58
building you you have built already a
00:29:59
time for them to focus and have those
00:30:01
things. Um, and then, you know, instead
00:30:04
of it just being like, hey, you do this
00:30:06
in your free time after school is done,
00:30:08
you know, it's like, no, like here's a
00:30:10
here's a set time where you can actually
00:30:12
build and create something that's
00:30:13
uniquely yours. Even like the commitment
00:30:16
piece, right? We have some amazing
00:30:18
parents who are truly bought into the
00:30:20
mission and who are dedicated. And so, I
00:30:22
can't thank them enough because it's not
00:30:25
all my doing because without them, we
00:30:26
wouldn't have a space for kids. Um, so
00:30:29
in most of I would say this was probably
00:30:32
the first year we've been going on for
00:30:34
three years and this was the first
00:30:37
semester that we actually lost someone
00:30:40
um and it was just well we lost two
00:30:42
families and but other than that our
00:30:44
families aren't leaving and even in the
00:30:46
summer they're committed. We don't offer
00:30:47
any kind of summer programming, but even
00:30:50
in the summer, there's a big pool of
00:30:51
just like, let's hang out. And it's not
00:30:53
just the kids, it's the families that
00:30:55
truly want to build community with each
00:30:57
other. And I like that this space was
00:30:59
has allowed them to find their people in
00:31:01
that way.
00:31:01
>> The other part of this that you
00:31:03
mentioned was the field trips aspect.
00:31:04
Um, and so talk to me a little bit about
00:31:07
that and like where where have you guys
00:31:09
gone? Where are you guys planning to go?
00:31:10
What kind of what constitutes a field
00:31:13
trip? Um, and you know, I don't know,
00:31:15
are you guys where are you guys looking
00:31:16
to go?
00:31:17
>> Oh, so we we are museum regulars and so
00:31:22
we have three really cool museums here
00:31:25
in San Antonio. So every time there's a
00:31:27
new exhibit, we are there. Um, we also
00:31:30
have a really great relationship with
00:31:32
um, a theater here that used to be a
00:31:36
black theater. Um, and well, I think it
00:31:38
stemmed from being like the only it was
00:31:41
I think it was the library the library
00:31:44
that only black people could go to at
00:31:46
that time and then it like transition to
00:31:48
a school I believe and now it's a
00:31:50
theater and um they offer matinea shows
00:31:54
and so a lot of times the shows that are
00:31:56
coming to the theater they'll offer
00:31:59
daytime views of it and for a while it
00:32:01
was only public schools and then we were
00:32:03
like hey don't forget about us
00:32:04
homeschoolers and so we've been able to
00:32:07
see some really cool shows. Um, we also
00:32:09
have a larger theater that we attend.
00:32:11
Um, and like Black Violin is coming and
00:32:14
so we're able to see Black Violin for
00:32:17
free because they have student matinea
00:32:19
shows as well. And we also we're in San
00:32:21
Antonio so we have like the Alamo and
00:32:23
we're looking at it and seeing it from a
00:32:25
decolonized perspective. Um, and then we
00:32:28
go to, you know, Amazon field trips. We
00:32:31
also go to the Toyota plant. We go to
00:32:34
like a gaming center, park days. Um, we
00:32:37
stay pretty active. I mean, last year we
00:32:41
did close to 70 field trips and that
00:32:44
includes like park days and those
00:32:45
theater visits. Um, and again, I think
00:32:47
it's us trying to respond to those
00:32:49
stereotypes of like homeschoolers not
00:32:51
being socialized. And I'm like, huh? And
00:32:54
I I'm not one of those people who truly
00:32:56
get annoyed by that and they're like,
00:32:58
are they going to be socialized? I know
00:32:59
what I'm doing for my kids. I know the
00:33:01
experiences that they're having.
00:33:03
But I've also met the kids who have not
00:33:05
been socialized.
00:33:07
And I don't want to dismiss or diminish
00:33:10
their experience, whether they're going
00:33:12
through it now or, you know, they're
00:33:14
adults and that was their experience.
00:33:16
Um, and it is truly heartbreaking
00:33:18
because it's like almost like a fear of
00:33:20
the world or fear of conversations and
00:33:23
not being able to or like what my my mom
00:33:26
would say is like they act like they've
00:33:28
never been been anywhere. And you see
00:33:31
the difference of kids who have not been
00:33:32
socialized, but also there's, you know,
00:33:34
whether they're Christian or secular,
00:33:36
secular, progressive, there are parents
00:33:38
who were doing great things with their
00:33:39
kids who are being intentional with
00:33:42
their time to make sure they are
00:33:43
socialized.
00:33:45
>> Field trips was one of my favorite
00:33:46
things as a kid. We would go Ronald
00:33:47
Reagan Library was not super far away.
00:33:50
Obviously, presidential libraries tend
00:33:51
to do a lot of like historical
00:33:53
reenactments and so um that was always
00:33:56
interesting. Um, but also we had like an
00:33:59
art center that provided us. I I don't
00:34:01
know if we got discounted tickets or
00:34:03
not, but we would go see a lot of
00:34:04
theater production. Saw a lot of
00:34:05
Shakespeare. Um, oh, I got to go see
00:34:08
this was cool. Mary Poppins in theater
00:34:10
and Dick Van Dyke showed up. So, that
00:34:12
was
00:34:13
>> Oh, that is cool. [laughter]
00:34:16
>> Yeah. And he even went on st he did the
00:34:18
the crazy legs like he went out and
00:34:20
danced on stage at one point. He wasn't
00:34:21
in the theater production. He just was
00:34:23
there to to enjoy it. But they had him
00:34:25
come out on stage and say hello to
00:34:26
everybody and um Yeah. And he gave us
00:34:29
the famous Dick Van Djk like leg wobbles
00:34:31
that he he does in every movie thing
00:34:34
that he's ever been in. So
00:34:35
>> yeah, that is a cool experience.
00:34:37
>> Yeah. As you were talking about that, I
00:34:38
was like remembering all these like cool
00:34:39
field trips and park days that we did
00:34:42
that Yeah. just over time they get they
00:34:44
get buried a little bit. Like when we're
00:34:46
talking to like neighborhood kids and
00:34:47
just like when I'm going to visit
00:34:49
friends who have kids in public school,
00:34:51
you know, it's or my friends who are
00:34:53
educators, they're like, "We only go to
00:34:55
one field trip a semester or one field
00:34:56
trip a year." Um, and I'm like, "Oo,
00:35:00
that's how my kids experience."
00:35:01
[laughter]
00:35:02
So I And that's when we're looking at
00:35:05
comparison from like public schools and
00:35:07
and then you get the comments like,
00:35:09
"Well, it's not always about having
00:35:10
fun." I'm like, "No, my kids work hard
00:35:12
during the week. They deserve a field
00:35:14
trip Friday and and that's what we
00:35:16
choose to do. So, quit judging.
00:35:18
>> No, I I love that. One of the things
00:35:19
that you talked about on uh a semi-reent
00:35:21
episode of your podcast uh the sex
00:35:24
secular homeschool revolution podcast.
00:35:26
You guys should go check it out. Plug
00:35:28
that liking Ashley. Yeah. So, little
00:35:31
little pre-plug uh here. Um but um you
00:35:35
talked about how you're you set up your
00:35:37
home school week and how it's still a
00:35:38
5day week. However, you only do like
00:35:42
three or four days of school and then
00:35:44
Friday is always a field trip. Is that
00:35:45
right? Is do I have that right?
00:35:47
>> So, it is controversial. We do I mean
00:35:50
especially if you're coming from
00:35:51
traditional education and you're looking
00:35:53
at it from that lens. Uh, my kids do
00:35:56
three days a week and they do co-op,
00:35:59
which I count as an educational day
00:36:01
because they take some amazing classes.
00:36:03
And then we do field trip Fridays, which
00:36:05
most I mean whether you're going to a
00:36:07
museum or a science experience or just a
00:36:10
park day, there's learning to be had in
00:36:12
all of those experiences, right? Um, but
00:36:15
people get so pressed when I say they
00:36:18
only do school for three days. But I'm
00:36:21
like, those three days, we go hard. we
00:36:23
we really take deep dives in whatever
00:36:25
subjects we're focused on. Um be because
00:36:29
we enjoy being together and we enjoy
00:36:31
doing the educational experience. Now
00:36:34
that having three kids was hard because
00:36:36
you're like boopping around to see where
00:36:37
everyone's at. Um but now my oldest does
00:36:40
attend micro school two days a week as
00:36:43
well as co-op and field trip Friday. Um,
00:36:47
and part of it is because I didn't want
00:36:50
to teach the upper level classes. That
00:36:52
would have been hard or difficult. So, I
00:36:54
was like, "Okay, let's outsource it."
00:36:56
Um, but you're in the the micro schools
00:36:59
only from like 10 to 10 to about 3 and
00:37:03
so we get to see her when she comes
00:37:05
home. But um yeah, it is 3 days a week
00:37:08
and we're very intentional about the
00:37:10
time when we are locked in and and
00:37:13
sometimes we do, you know, outings
00:37:15
during the week. It's not that we stay
00:37:17
at home, but we make sure that our
00:37:19
education is a priority.
00:37:21
>> That was going to be my next question
00:37:23
was about the micro school because when
00:37:24
we chatted before you brought that up
00:37:26
and so talk to me about the micro school
00:37:28
cuz I know your obviously your daughter
00:37:30
attends there, but you're kind of
00:37:32
involved in the planting of that and it
00:37:33
seems to be doing well. So talk to me a
00:37:35
little bit what what is a microschool
00:37:37
for people who don't know and then like
00:37:39
what does that look like in in your
00:37:41
homeschool community and how are you
00:37:42
guys using that like tied to your
00:37:45
homeschool community?
00:37:46
>> Okay, so we did open an extra or an
00:37:50
extension of our homeschooling co-op to
00:37:52
a micro school for seventh grade and up.
00:37:56
Um when again I I don't lead the micro
00:38:00
school, I focus on the community and our
00:38:02
co-op. my co-founders do focus on so
00:38:06
we're there's three of us um I'm the
00:38:08
community person we have one who focuses
00:38:10
on like the branding and organization
00:38:13
then we have our educational component
00:38:15
and so our educational person shout out
00:38:18
to Kia she leads our micro school and
00:38:21
when we were having conversations at
00:38:23
just like a gathering um a lot of the
00:38:25
parents were like whoa high school's
00:38:27
around the corner what are we going to
00:38:28
do and so that is kind of how the
00:38:32
conversation of the micro school opened
00:38:34
and I know for a lot of micro schools
00:38:36
the struggle is finding people to be in
00:38:40
the seats. Um we have the people our
00:38:43
community in general when we're looking
00:38:44
at how many attend um our field trips
00:38:48
we're close to about 250 active
00:38:50
families. And so when we were looking to
00:38:53
open the micro school, we're like, "Oh,
00:38:54
we have the bodies now. Let's organize
00:38:57
the different classes, find the
00:38:59
teachers, we have the space as well."
00:39:03
And so currently we have 16 or no 17
00:39:08
kids in our micro school and they take
00:39:11
um a language art or English comp one.
00:39:14
They take uh chemistry. Some of the kids
00:39:17
take chemistry, some of them take
00:39:18
biology. and for um his they take
00:39:22
history as well. And then we don't offer
00:39:26
a math class, so to speak, because all
00:39:28
of the kids have different math learning
00:39:30
styles. And so in response to that, we
00:39:33
offer a tutor to come in um both of
00:39:36
those days. And so as the kids need help
00:39:39
or support, he's able to see where
00:39:41
they're at. Um and they bring their math
00:39:42
books or they log onto their math
00:39:44
curriculum. And like my kid does CTC
00:39:46
math, she takes her math notebook, she
00:39:49
works through it, and if she needs
00:39:50
support, she asks the tutor.
00:39:52
>> That's super cool because like I know
00:39:54
that that was when I got to high school,
00:39:56
my parents had a similar kind of
00:39:58
realization of like there are certain
00:39:59
subjects that they were like, we're just
00:40:01
not capable of teaching these things,
00:40:04
science being one of them. Uh, you know,
00:40:06
they they can understand kind of what's
00:40:08
going on, but they were not like big
00:40:10
science nerds. And so they were just
00:40:12
like really nervous about it.
00:40:13
Thankfully, we have another homeschool
00:40:15
mom who she has a degree in I want to
00:40:18
say chemistry, but she has a science
00:40:19
background. And so, she was like, "Look,
00:40:21
send all the kids to my house. You know,
00:40:23
they'll read the textbook at home. They
00:40:24
come, we do all the experiments. I can
00:40:26
explain how everything is operating,
00:40:28
what's going on, uh everything they need
00:40:30
to know uh from like a you know, from a
00:40:33
from an adult." And uh and then it
00:40:36
worked out the same way. Like my mom,
00:40:38
English major in in college. She wanted
00:40:40
to be an English teacher and so she
00:40:42
would do all of like our literature
00:40:44
classes. And so she taught us about like
00:40:46
reading the great reading some like we
00:40:49
Shakespeare. We were read like Beaowolf
00:40:52
and Robinson Caruso and like all these
00:40:55
very classical books, Grapes of Wrath,
00:40:57
like all these classical books and then
00:40:59
we would have discussions around them
00:41:00
and she taught us how to like how to do
00:41:02
that. Um which was cool. And so to your
00:41:05
point of like parents not always feeling
00:41:08
like capable to teach those higher
00:41:10
levels like it is very important to find
00:41:12
those people because otherwise your kid
00:41:13
could easily get left behind in those
00:41:15
subjects if you're like we don't know if
00:41:17
this is right or wrong.
00:41:18
>> Right. Well, and to add to your point
00:41:20
again as I'm jump I jumped into
00:41:22
homeschooling, people didn't realize
00:41:25
that or I've not all the people I've
00:41:27
come across, but there had been some
00:41:29
popcorns in there where they did not
00:41:31
realize homeschoolers actually bought
00:41:34
curriculum
00:41:35
and I was like, wait, what? They can
00:41:37
even buy the curriculum the schools
00:41:38
have.
00:41:39
there a homeschooling parents you can do
00:41:42
it in a cheap affordable budget friendly
00:41:44
way but a lot of homeschoolers go hard
00:41:47
and buy all the manipulatives all the
00:41:49
curric and like sometimes before you
00:41:50
know it you're looking at you know
00:41:52
$1,200 and you're like wait a minute but
00:41:55
it's because there's that um investment
00:41:57
in your kids's education and I'm like no
00:41:59
a lot of there are some who don't use
00:42:01
anything right and they do their own
00:42:03
journey but a lot of homeschooling
00:42:05
parents truly invest in their kids'
00:42:06
education and they do buy curriculum Um,
00:42:08
and they do piece curriculum together.
00:42:11
>> No, for sure. I mean, I think that the
00:42:14
there's been a little bit of an uptick
00:42:16
in the talk around like unschooling,
00:42:17
right? And kids like basically kind of
00:42:20
choosing their own, well, when are my
00:42:22
kid starts to ask me questions about
00:42:23
that? That's what I'm going to teach
00:42:24
them this instead of kind of the
00:42:25
traditional school aspect of like, hey,
00:42:27
around this age, you should be learning
00:42:29
this type of material. Um, and so I
00:42:32
think there is that stereotype like
00:42:34
you're talking about of like sometimes
00:42:36
thinking that homeschool families are
00:42:37
like, yeah, not buying any curriculum
00:42:38
and just kind of like letting the kids
00:42:40
and decide what they want to learn,
00:42:43
which is I I would say it's not an
00:42:47
effective way to teach, but that that's
00:42:48
my personal opinion.
00:42:50
>> I'm going to join you on that.
00:42:51
>> Controversial take there.
00:42:52
>> I think it's controversial, too. Like I
00:42:55
Okay, I will say again, I've been in the
00:42:57
homeschooling space for many years. is
00:42:58
I'm a very talkative person, you know,
00:43:00
do the things and I I can point I share
00:43:04
this scenario with everyone.
00:43:07
I've met unschoolers quite a bit and
00:43:12
there's only been two of the like lots
00:43:14
of home unschoolers that I've met that
00:43:16
were like doing it in a way that was
00:43:18
inspiring, but they also had a plethora
00:43:21
of resources. Their finances were not,
00:43:24
you know, I wouldn't even say like
00:43:25
middle class. they were living well and
00:43:27
they were able like the kid wanted to
00:43:29
learn about you know micro what is it
00:43:31
marine biology and so they were like oh
00:43:33
I'll take you here and we're going to
00:43:35
learn all the things and scuba diving
00:43:36
and we're going to go live was it
00:43:39
Jamaica for like you know six months so
00:43:41
that they could take a true deep dive
00:43:43
into it right then the other people that
00:43:45
I've met and again I could be
00:43:47
generalizing it had been
00:43:50
>> it it almost it felt almost like
00:43:52
educational neglect in a lot of ways and
00:43:54
people might be upset at me for saying
00:43:56
that, but then when I'm looking at
00:43:57
threads and look listening to podcasts
00:43:59
like yours and people who had a genuine
00:44:02
like unschooling experience, it's very
00:44:05
rare that you hear people talk very
00:44:07
positively about it. And so it's like,
00:44:09
okay, I do appreciate and I would say my
00:44:11
personal homeschooling style is eclectic
00:44:13
where I'm like, okay, you really want to
00:44:15
go into Greek mythology. We're going to
00:44:17
pull all the books. We're going to watch
00:44:18
a lot of documentaries about it. We're
00:44:20
going to explore where it comes from.
00:44:22
We're going to look at the map, but
00:44:24
that's more of like a unit study for me,
00:44:26
right? But and again, that's pulling
00:44:28
pieces and taking that deep dive. And
00:44:30
I'm going to ask you to subtract the
00:44:31
year of 978 to now and looking at what
00:44:35
that subtraction looks like and stuff.
00:44:37
And so I struggle with like the
00:44:40
unschooling concept and I have watched
00:44:41
it and I think especially for kids of
00:44:43
color, they don't necessarily have that
00:44:45
privilege. I think when you're white and
00:44:47
you're unschooling a lot and if you if
00:44:49
you come from a very privileged family,
00:44:52
you have like a backup plan, a safety
00:44:54
net in a lot of ways. And when you're
00:44:56
looking at how you're unschooled, it
00:44:58
looks innovative. But when you have a
00:44:59
kid of color who can't read necessarily
00:45:02
or process math, that that doesn't that
00:45:06
is that's not looked up as the same way,
00:45:08
right? And they're not going to be, "Oh,
00:45:10
you're so inspiring. Oh, you're so
00:45:11
innovative." It's like, "Oh, this kid
00:45:13
has a huge deficit in life." Um, and I'm
00:45:15
not saying that white homeschoolers
00:45:17
don't have that, but it is looked at
00:45:18
very differently when we're looking at,
00:45:20
you know, kids of color versus white
00:45:22
kids in those uh in those lanes.
00:45:25
>> I I agree and I'm thankful my my mom, I
00:45:28
think, had a similar teaching style to
00:45:30
you of like, you know, my kid expresses
00:45:32
an interest in this thing. Let's deep
00:45:34
dive into that, right? Like, let's lean
00:45:36
heavily into that. Like, you brought up
00:45:38
Greek mythology. I love Greek mythology.
00:45:40
My mom bought me a bunch of books. She
00:45:41
took me to the library. She was like,
00:45:42
"Let's learn everything we could
00:45:44
possibly learn about Greek mythology and
00:45:46
um how cool it is." And I still to this
00:45:49
day I'm like I'm huge fan. I love that
00:45:52
knowledge. You know, I talk about
00:45:54
pirates a lot. I was a kid. I was I
00:45:56
loved pirates. I learned every pirate
00:45:58
name under the sun. Um I knew all the
00:46:00
flags. I like can tell you so much about
00:46:03
pirates. Um it wasn't just Blackbeard
00:46:06
and Jack Sparrow sailing the seven seas.
00:46:08
>> Well, that's all I know.
00:46:10
>> And hey, that's okay. Um but um it it
00:46:14
just is like one of those things where
00:46:15
I'm like I look at it and I still to
00:46:17
this day I tell my friends I'm like I'm
00:46:18
so thankful that anytime we were
00:46:19
interested in something you guys were
00:46:20
just like yeah let's go let's learn all
00:46:22
that we can learn about that um as deep
00:46:24
as we can and it's like cool let's you
00:46:27
know and then we'd get you know we'd get
00:46:28
over it and then they'd be like okay
00:46:30
what's the next thing let's you know but
00:46:32
they provided us areas of of history and
00:46:34
areas of other learning that was like
00:46:36
touch on those things and then we would
00:46:38
express an interest in it and it would
00:46:40
it would go from there. So,
00:46:42
>> well, and that's a little bit Okay, so
00:46:44
I'm excited or I'm happy that your
00:46:46
parents did that, but when I'm looking
00:46:48
at these new content creators, and I
00:46:51
love that people are diving in and
00:46:52
sharing this part of homeschooling, but
00:46:55
I have a huge issue with these new
00:46:58
homeschooler, I don't even Yeah, mostly
00:46:59
new. Um, where they're like, we went to
00:47:01
the grocery store and we did math and
00:47:03
this is their school for the day. While
00:47:05
I appreciate that experience and that
00:47:08
they know how to count their change
00:47:09
backwards, I don't think that and then
00:47:11
they're like, "They socialized with the
00:47:13
checker and they socialized with the
00:47:15
stalker."
00:47:16
Okay, that's a that's an everyday life
00:47:20
skill, right? To learn how to budget for
00:47:22
your groceries. I mean, my my parents
00:47:24
did that to me and I wasn't a
00:47:26
homeschooler at that time. Um, so it's a
00:47:29
lot of those videos. I'm like, "No,
00:47:31
you're making homeschooling look crazy."
00:47:34
And then I remember seeing a lady whose
00:47:37
kid was like adding like the pounds of
00:47:39
the apples or multiplying and she was
00:47:43
she was like, "Oh yeah, but anyway, the
00:47:44
scenarios I can't remember specifically,
00:47:46
but the kid was wrong." And she was
00:47:48
like, "Look, they're learning." And I'm
00:47:49
like, "Oh, you you filmed that and put
00:47:51
it on a public platform." I'm like,
00:47:53
"You're making homeschooling look bad.
00:47:55
Stop."
00:47:56
>> No, I agree with you. I think there
00:47:58
there is that level of like it is one
00:48:00
thing to Yeah. put your kid in the
00:48:02
world, teach them real life skills. You
00:48:04
know, I math I thrived in geometry
00:48:07
because we were we were building a house
00:48:09
at the time or we're working on our
00:48:10
house and and so like knowing how to
00:48:12
like buy paint to paint on the walls.
00:48:14
That's a valuable math skill that is an
00:48:15
everyday skill that I think most people
00:48:17
should have. But I also need to know how
00:48:19
to solve for the unknown, you know, and
00:48:21
so to your point, it's like there's more
00:48:23
than just the practical stuff that we
00:48:25
have to know as people. uh whether you
00:48:27
use it in your everyday life or not,
00:48:29
sometimes it's just like important to
00:48:30
kind of know. I don't know. I I'm the
00:48:33
weird fact guy in my family. Like we sit
00:48:35
down and like I'm kind of a I'm a little
00:48:37
dangerous at trivia night because
00:48:39
they're like they're like, "Why do you
00:48:40
know this?" And I'm just like I don't
00:48:42
know. It's fascinating on the internet
00:48:43
and I wanted to know, you know, it's
00:48:45
like, you know, kind of a thing. And I
00:48:46
still view that like as that's kind of
00:48:48
how I view school, too, is I'm like,
00:48:49
"You're going to learn a bunch of stuff
00:48:50
that you might not use every single day,
00:48:52
but the day that you need it, it's going
00:48:54
to be there for you."
00:48:55
>> Okay. So, what are your thoughts on
00:48:57
people when they like even with um
00:48:59
deschooling and people not understanding
00:49:03
that it's necessary, but also that their
00:49:05
kids will genuinely start enjoying
00:49:09
learning again? Um because I know I hear
00:49:11
like, "Oh, they'll never just find an
00:49:14
interest. All they want to do is watch
00:49:15
TV and video games." I truly think kids
00:49:18
are inherently genius. We just live in a
00:49:21
world that doesn't uh especially here in
00:49:23
the United States accommodate kids in
00:49:25
their interests and we can see that now
00:49:27
like the evolution of like McDonald's
00:49:29
doesn't have a playscape anymore right
00:49:31
we don't give kids a lot of opportunity
00:49:34
to play but play leads to learning and
00:49:36
so I mean do you believe kids can lead
00:49:40
up to their own journey of learning and
00:49:43
and joy of learning
00:49:45
>> I think so but I think like I said I
00:49:47
think that it's also a responsibility of
00:49:49
the parents and the guardians to like
00:49:51
provide opportunity for them to explore
00:49:53
things that they wouldn't normally
00:49:55
explore. And so, you know, like push
00:49:58
them to do something that okay, yeah,
00:50:00
maybe this isn't really my thing, but
00:50:02
like like for instance, okay, so my dad
00:50:04
is a he he does carpentry work. That's
00:50:07
his hobby and he's good at it. I'm not a
00:50:10
carpenter. I have never enjoyed it, but
00:50:12
I know how to do it because he was like,
00:50:14
"Hey, come help me with this project."
00:50:16
And I have a respect for it. I know I
00:50:19
know how to use a table saw. I know how
00:50:21
to build stuff. I can do it. It's not my
00:50:23
thing. It's not what I get a lot of joy
00:50:25
out of. But they exposed me to things
00:50:26
like that where it was like, okay, like,
00:50:28
do you have an interest in this? Would
00:50:30
you want to pursue that? Um, to your
00:50:32
point about kids needing spaces to play
00:50:34
and to learn things. Um, a couple years
00:50:37
ago I worked at a toy store and we were
00:50:40
a basically a secondhand Lego store and
00:50:42
I love Legos. Um, [laughter]
00:50:45
and we had so so we sold already built
00:50:49
models. We had a big table with just
00:50:51
loose pieces. Um, you could buy brand
00:50:54
new box stuff, retired things, all kinds
00:50:56
of different fun Lego building things.
00:50:59
But what was so cool is kids would come
00:51:01
and we had these big bins of Legos and
00:51:03
they would just build stuff and we would
00:51:04
just encourage them, hey, what are you
00:51:05
building? What are you What are you
00:51:07
interested in? What are you trying to
00:51:08
make? Uh, same with like the little
00:51:10
characters, the minifigures. You know,
00:51:11
we had a whole table that was just
00:51:13
pieces for those. And they would come
00:51:14
and they would create the most unique
00:51:16
stories. We had build competitions. We
00:51:18
come and, you know, build whatever you
00:51:20
want, right? It could be anything in the
00:51:22
world. Um, we'd throw birthday parties.
00:51:24
You build race cars. Look like Pinewood
00:51:26
Derby cars. Uh, and we'd race them down
00:51:28
this track and and those were so much
00:51:30
fun. It was just kind of building this
00:51:31
creativity space and trying to tell
00:51:33
stories and try to do things. And, um,
00:51:35
and there were a couple kids in there
00:51:37
that would come frequently and they
00:51:38
would always tell me about like, "Yeah,
00:51:39
I want to grow up to be an engineer. I
00:51:41
want to grow up to like be a Lego master
00:51:43
or I'm trying to design cars or whatever
00:51:46
it is. Like and I'm like this is is a
00:51:49
tool that is getting used to to kind of
00:51:51
further that experience if that makes
00:51:53
sense. And so I just I appreciated their
00:51:55
parents who would bring them and and be
00:51:56
just let them play, let them be kids.
00:51:59
And yeah, sometimes it was rowdy and
00:52:00
sometimes we had to say, hey, tone it
00:52:01
down just a little bit, you know, but
00:52:03
that's that's more a teaching a kid,
00:52:05
hey, this is, you know, a public space
00:52:08
and, you know, there's other people and
00:52:09
we don't want to disturb them totally,
00:52:10
but you know, you're still good to play.
00:52:12
You know, we're not in there saying, no,
00:52:14
don't don't touch it. Don't, you know,
00:52:16
you can look, but don't touch. That's
00:52:17
not what we're saying. We're let's play
00:52:19
with these things together.
00:52:20
>> What I'm taking from your answer is as
00:52:22
long as the parents provide access to
00:52:24
the learning and play environment that
00:52:26
they can thrive. But it falls on the
00:52:29
responsibility of the parent to and also
00:52:31
what I learned from your comment is also
00:52:33
that there's growth and discomfort. Your
00:52:34
kid might not love it automatically, but
00:52:37
they might not know that they do love it
00:52:39
without you giving them, you know, they
00:52:41
need you to give them the exposure.
00:52:43
>> I do also think because I've also had a
00:52:46
number of conversations with people who
00:52:48
did not have pretty much any schooling.
00:52:51
um one one of my episodes with Alyssa.
00:52:54
Shout out to Alyssa. Like her mom really
00:52:56
didn't teach her much aside from like
00:52:58
here's how to be a good house wife. And
00:53:01
that's not what Alyssa is doing today.
00:53:02
She had to eventually get to a point
00:53:04
where she had an interest in something
00:53:07
and that became like understanding how
00:53:09
the human body works and she wanted to
00:53:11
become an educator because she was
00:53:13
denied an education for a lot of intents
00:53:15
and purposes. So
00:53:17
I do think that that's also an aspect. I
00:53:19
do think people can come back around to
00:53:21
being like, "No, I want to learn
00:53:22
something. I want to have a skill." I
00:53:24
mean, that's I think that's kind of how
00:53:26
we're hardwired as human beings, right?
00:53:28
We're like, we we're meant to have
00:53:30
purpose. We're meant to do something
00:53:31
with our lives. Um, it's finding what
00:53:35
that thing is. And so, you can either
00:53:36
nurture that and and encourage that as a
00:53:38
as a kid or sometimes it's just when
00:53:41
you're an adult, you get to a point
00:53:42
where you're like, "Okay, now's now I'm
00:53:44
going to do that." It's never too late,
00:53:45
in my opinion, to to find that like
00:53:47
purpose in your life. No, I completely
00:53:49
agree. I know I'm a person who
00:53:51
continuously loves to learn and evolve
00:53:54
and grow. And I think that's how I've
00:53:56
looked at my own journey with like
00:53:58
podcasting and next it's going to be
00:54:00
video editing and and I'm constantly
00:54:02
reading books and watching different
00:54:05
lectures, attending different lectures
00:54:06
because it's exciting for me to grow and
00:54:09
I never want to be a stagnant person. So
00:54:12
I think with like Alyssa, she's I think
00:54:14
that's part of her journey as well. Oh
00:54:17
yeah, 100%. She Yeah, she's not a
00:54:19
stagnant person. I'll tell you that
00:54:21
right now. But I do want Yeah. So like
00:54:24
let's talk a little bit about what
00:54:25
you're doing outside like social media,
00:54:27
your podcast, like what who is it for?
00:54:31
What what got what made what clicked the
00:54:33
thing in your brain where you're like,
00:54:34
"Okay, I need to make this. I need to
00:54:35
put this out into the world."
00:54:37
>> Again, when I was diving into
00:54:38
homeschooling and then figuring out my
00:54:40
journey to secular progressive
00:54:41
homeschooling, um again, there wasn't a
00:54:44
lot of resources. it was already limited
00:54:46
resources for secular stuff and um and
00:54:49
shout out to Blair oversee the secular
00:54:53
um Facebook group. I actually got to
00:54:54
meet her at a conference and she was so
00:54:56
inspiring. Um I met her this summer but
00:54:59
again that was still very limited and so
00:55:02
as I'm creating resources that I'm
00:55:03
finding my community and we're talking
00:55:05
things through I'm like we we should be
00:55:08
taking up space. Um, and so that's how I
00:55:10
ventured into my podcast, Secular
00:55:13
Homeschool Revolution. Um, and I talk
00:55:16
about my overall journey. I talk about
00:55:17
things that we're using. I'm talking
00:55:19
about different perspectives. So, like a
00:55:21
really popular episode um, happened last
00:55:24
week about our homeschoolers dismantling
00:55:27
public education um, when we're looking
00:55:31
at public education being dismantled.
00:55:34
And I had a conversation with a friend.
00:55:36
And I did post about it on Tik Tok about
00:55:39
her pointing fingers at me um for
00:55:43
advertising homeschooling and what my
00:55:45
homeschooling life looks like. Um you
00:55:46
can find me on Secular
00:55:49
Homeschool or Secular Revolution Mama on
00:55:52
Tik Tok and I'm Secular Homeschool
00:55:53
Revolution on Instagram and I talk
00:55:56
through my thoughts on the podcast
00:55:58
because I'm like, you've never mentioned
00:55:59
the politics around education. You've
00:56:01
never talked about, you know,
00:56:03
marginalized communities in education.
00:56:04
You've never talked about the policy
00:56:07
makers, but you want to point your
00:56:08
finger at me. So, let's take a deep dive
00:56:10
in statistics. Let's take a deep dive in
00:56:12
the impacts of public education and it
00:56:14
has had on BIPO kids and queer kids and
00:56:18
sped kids because we just saw a lot of
00:56:20
the defunding or defunding in public
00:56:22
education, not just here in Texas, but
00:56:24
across the country. But again, you don't
00:56:26
post, you don't talk about that. Um,
00:56:29
you're doing that with me. And as
00:56:30
someone who's always going to be an
00:56:32
advocate for kids, I write the letters.
00:56:35
I show up to the protest. I'm at some of
00:56:37
my my local school district board
00:56:39
meetings. Um because while this not
00:56:42
everybody can homeschool, right? It just
00:56:45
not everyone can fit make it fit in that
00:56:47
way. So I'm like, well, it's still my
00:56:50
responsibility to look out for my
00:56:51
neighbor's kids.
00:56:52
>> Um but I don't see you at those same
00:56:54
meetings in the district you work at. So
00:56:56
what what are you doing besides pointing
00:56:58
your finger at me?
00:56:59
>> Yeah. I'm having those conversations and
00:57:01
I'm not a traditional podcaster in the
00:57:03
sense where I'm like, oh, we're going to
00:57:05
take a deep dive into, you know, math
00:57:07
with confidence because I feel like
00:57:08
there's a lot of resources for that. Um,
00:57:10
but I am having the conversations um
00:57:13
that I think I'm saying the quiet part
00:57:17
out loud. That's to be honest that's
00:57:19
what drew me into your podcast to begin
00:57:21
with was because
00:57:23
as someone who one I was a decade out of
00:57:25
homeschooling I hadn't aside from like
00:57:27
talking to my parents about it and like
00:57:29
every now and then seeing old homeschool
00:57:31
friends and we would talk about it like
00:57:32
I wasn't deep diving into understanding
00:57:35
the background of curriculums I had used
00:57:37
or what was happening now in the
00:57:39
homeschool world and um and then in 2020
00:57:42
I had bosses who all of a sudden they
00:57:44
their little kids were be having to be
00:57:46
homeschooled and they were like asking
00:57:47
me questions and I was like I don't know
00:57:49
like it's been so long. Um but it but
00:57:53
your show has been super informative
00:57:55
because like you Yeah, of course I can
00:57:58
find all the content I want around like
00:57:59
let's deep dive into the specific
00:58:01
curriculum and you know walk through it.
00:58:02
That's great. But you're talking about
00:58:05
some of the philosophies that go behind
00:58:06
it again like you were mentioning going
00:58:08
out and meeting with like policy makers
00:58:10
and taking a stand for what we think the
00:58:12
country should look like and things like
00:58:14
that. I'm all for that. Like I think
00:58:17
that that's huge instead of us
00:58:19
continually pointing fingers at well our
00:58:21
education system is broken. Whose fault
00:58:23
is that? Is it the teachers fault? Is it
00:58:25
parents' fault? It's who whose fault is
00:58:27
it? Maybe it's a combination of
00:58:29
everything. I don't I don't know. But we
00:58:32
need to be showing up. We need to be
00:58:33
putting our voices out there. And so
00:58:36
again, I think that's great that not
00:58:37
only, you know, even as someone who has
00:58:39
decided you're going to homeschool your
00:58:40
kids, you're going to keep them at home.
00:58:42
you're you're doing your micro school,
00:58:43
you have your co-ops, you're doing your
00:58:44
thing, you can still go advocate for
00:58:46
other people's kids and giving them the
00:58:48
best experience hopefully possible. Um
00:58:51
because yeah, I mean I know Texas,
00:58:53
Tennessee, I live in Tennessee now. Our
00:58:55
school systems, we're not we're not far
00:58:56
up that list from we're at the very
00:58:58
bottom unfortunately.
00:58:59
>> We are too. We are too.
00:59:01
>> Not a good feeling. Um, and I know
00:59:03
public school teachers here and and I
00:59:05
hear I've talked to them about their
00:59:07
struggle and it's it's not easy and I
00:59:08
feel bad for them and and like what can
00:59:11
it's meeting those people and talking to
00:59:13
them and asking them what can we do? How
00:59:14
can we help help you and advocate for
00:59:17
you? So, I appreciate what you're doing,
00:59:19
Ashley.
00:59:20
>> Thank you. And I just want to add this
00:59:21
last thing. I think what makes my
00:59:22
community with our homeschooling group
00:59:24
so successful is that we have the open
00:59:27
conversations and talk about how can I
00:59:29
support you? What are your needs? Um,
00:59:30
and like my favorite event is we do
00:59:32
these community swaps where we're
00:59:33
swapping curriculum, clothes, toys,
00:59:35
small appliances. Um, because I'm a firm
00:59:38
believer in mutual aid and I want to
00:59:39
braid that into our community. But most
00:59:42
of all, I think our parents feel heard.
00:59:44
And when you're looking at why did you
00:59:46
choose to homeschool, our parents
00:59:48
weren't being heard in public school?
00:59:50
And I've only met a handful of parents
00:59:52
in our group who were like, I knew I was
00:59:54
destined to homeschool. And a lot of us
00:59:56
were pushed into it. Um, and it was
00:59:59
because we were not being heard. So, if
01:00:00
we're looking and talking to policy
01:00:02
makers and teachers and principles and
01:00:04
superintendent, you're asking why people
01:00:05
are leaving. It's because their voice is
01:00:08
being silenced.
01:00:10
>> I think that's great, too. It's a great
01:00:12
reminder, too, that like as humanity, we
01:00:14
are meant to live in community. And so,
01:00:16
also hearing that your community is
01:00:17
doing more than just like helping with
01:00:19
schools. We're they're helping each
01:00:20
other. You're filling the gaps. You're
01:00:22
being you're socializing with each
01:00:23
other. Like, we're meant to live that.
01:00:25
That's just how humanity is. can't
01:00:28
really deny it whe whether you're
01:00:29
secular, whether you're Christian, like
01:00:31
you just look at history like humans are
01:00:32
meant to live in community with each
01:00:33
other, right? And so I think that that's
01:00:36
like amazing what you're doing because I
01:00:38
know that for me like it it's great to
01:00:40
know that there's other communities out
01:00:42
there that are supporting each other cuz
01:00:43
I know that for me that was a huge part
01:00:45
of what made me a successful homechool
01:00:47
case is the fact that I had community. I
01:00:49
had friends. I know my mom had friends
01:00:52
who helped her through things. And so
01:00:54
that is massive. And so the fact that
01:00:56
you're building that in Texas, amazing.
01:00:58
Uh I will continue to say all of the
01:01:00
good things about Ashley, what you're
01:01:02
doing is absolutely phenomenal. Um so to
01:01:05
you,
01:01:06
>> keep it [laughter] up.
01:01:08
>> Is there anything else we haven't
01:01:09
touched on that you think is important
01:01:11
that we need to talk about?
01:01:12
>> Um no. I just am really excited to be
01:01:15
here and I'm excited that homeschooling
01:01:17
is expanding, but not in the expense of
01:01:20
public school. And I just want to be
01:01:22
clear that a lot of especially from my
01:01:24
community we are support we do support
01:01:28
public education. We do not want it to
01:01:30
go we want you know to have less
01:01:33
censorship in schools. We want updated
01:01:35
curriculums. I know for me I don't want
01:01:37
my state to be at the bottom of the
01:01:39
education list because then that makes
01:01:41
makes it a level of distrust with the
01:01:43
type and quality of education my kids
01:01:45
are getting. So, I'm like, I want it to
01:01:46
be better, but I do not want it to be
01:01:49
dismantled in any way.
01:01:51
>> Same. Well, Ashley, thank you for coming
01:01:53
on the Ex Homeschoolers Club, even
01:01:54
though you're current. I guess I I guess
01:01:56
I should say you're part of the
01:01:57
homeschooler club. Uh, but you know,
01:01:59
someday you'll be part of the
01:02:00
exhomeschooler club with us for sure.
01:02:03
>> I appreciate it.
01:02:04
>> And of course, of course. And um, all of
01:02:08
the links to all of Ashley's stuff is
01:02:09
going to be down in the description, in
01:02:11
the show notes, all those types of
01:02:12
things. If you enjoyed this
01:02:13
conversation, do all the internet
01:02:15
things. Like and subscribe and leave a
01:02:16
five stars and leave us comments. Um, if
01:02:18
you want to hear more from Ashley, if
01:02:20
you got questions for her, one, you can
01:02:21
reach out to her on social media, you
01:02:23
can reach out to me, exhib,
01:02:36
okay? Let me know. and go check out her
01:02:38
podcast for sure because she answers a
01:02:39
lot of the questions that I had on that
01:02:41
show and it's just like phenomenal. So
01:02:44
once again, Ashley, thank you again for
01:02:46
coming on the show. It's been a pleasure
01:02:47
having you. I'm looking forward to
01:02:49
seeing everything you guys do in the
01:02:51
future with what you're doing and um
01:02:53
yeah, so until next time, we'll see you.
01:02:56
Peace.
01:02:59
[music]
01:03:04
>> [music]
