00:00:00
I remember as a young kid, you know,
00:00:01
driving past the school and all the
00:00:03
homeschool kids, we would joke like wave
00:00:05
to the prisoners or like when kids were
00:00:07
on a school bus, we would act like it
00:00:09
was a jail bus. When I was
00:00:11
homeschooling, they didn't really
00:00:13
approach controversial topics. But once
00:00:16
you go into community college, you are
00:00:19
maybe more in depth covering evolution,
00:00:22
then I'm feeling kind of this religious
00:00:25
pull because I had done religious
00:00:26
curriculum, religious schooling. Am I
00:00:29
denying my faith or am I doing something
00:00:32
wrong? There always is a little
00:00:34
something that I can spot in other
00:00:36
homeschoolers. And it's never a bad
00:00:38
thing, but it always hurts a little bit
00:00:40
when someone's like, "Are you
00:00:41
homeschool?" Like, when people notice it
00:00:43
in me, I'm like, "Uh, I haven't
00:00:44
recovered as much as I thought."
00:00:50
>> Well, Lauren, welcome to the Ex
00:00:52
Homeschoolers Club. I'm so stoked to
00:00:54
have you here.
00:00:56
>> Thank you so much for having me. I'm
00:00:57
really excited.
00:00:58
>> We are kind of new new exhomie friends
00:01:02
and um I appreciate so much you reached
00:01:04
out to me via DM and and you do some
00:01:07
really cool content stuff and so we were
00:01:08
like talking about a way to collaborate
00:01:10
and I was like okay well you got to come
00:01:12
on the show and tell your homeschool
00:01:13
story. So I'm just going to like hand it
00:01:16
over to you for a few minutes. Tell me a
00:01:17
little bit about your homeschool
00:01:18
experience, where you grew up, siblings,
00:01:22
you know, that kind of a thing. set the
00:01:24
stage a little bit for us of like your
00:01:25
homeschool experience.
00:01:27
>> Yeah. Well, first I was really excited
00:01:29
to find your channel because as the next
00:01:31
homeschooler, I'm looking for content
00:01:34
about people who homeschooled like me
00:01:36
and there's not a lot of it out there,
00:01:38
especially now the content about
00:01:39
homeschooling has shifted a lot um after
00:01:42
COVID, I think. So, it was really great
00:01:44
to see that. And for anybody that knows
00:01:46
my content, they'll definitely love your
00:01:49
content and the exhomeschoolers club
00:01:50
because it's right right in the same
00:01:53
kind of vein as what I do. But my name
00:01:55
is Lauren and I run a YouTube channel
00:01:58
called Unreligiously where I talk about
00:02:01
evangelicalism in the United States. I
00:02:04
personally grew up very deep into the
00:02:07
evangelical church. I homeschooled for
00:02:09
most of my life, went to church four or
00:02:12
five days a week. Um, yeah, just very
00:02:14
very religious upbringing. So, I talk a
00:02:17
lot about, yeah, just cultural
00:02:18
commentary really on evangelicalism in
00:02:20
the US. Um, I started homeschooling
00:02:23
right out the gate, right in preschool.
00:02:26
My family was not leaning towards
00:02:30
homeschooling initially um because of
00:02:32
religion or anything like that. they had
00:02:36
put my older brother in public school
00:02:39
and just with his ADHD and most of my
00:02:41
siblings we have ADHD um they found that
00:02:45
there were some struggles in the
00:02:46
elementary school years. So their plan
00:02:48
was to pull my brother out and me um
00:02:52
when I entered school and just do that
00:02:55
homeschooled and then we would go to
00:02:56
public school um at some kind of I don't
00:03:00
know unidentified time. Um but it went
00:03:03
really really well. they felt like and
00:03:05
my younger brother and my younger
00:03:06
sister. I have three siblings, so all of
00:03:09
us ended up homeschooling and they felt
00:03:12
like it went really well. So, we just
00:03:13
kept doing it. But we did always have
00:03:16
the option to go to public school. So, I
00:03:19
personally did choose to go to the local
00:03:22
public school in 8th grade and then
00:03:24
partially in 9th grade. And then I went
00:03:27
back to homeschooling after that so that
00:03:30
I could do more testing out of college
00:03:32
classes and just more of a college path
00:03:35
after that. It was a lot easier to do
00:03:37
that through homeschooling than through
00:03:39
the public high school system.
00:03:41
>> What's really interesting about what you
00:03:42
said there is like you kind of were also
00:03:44
given a choice which I think like
00:03:47
>> a lot of us didn't really get. I know
00:03:49
that was a discussion that happened in
00:03:50
my house around high school of like you
00:03:53
know do you want to stick with this? it
00:03:55
was working. So, it didn't
00:03:57
>> also the high school I wanted to go to
00:03:59
where any of my potential friends would
00:04:01
have gone, I wasn't in that school
00:04:03
district. So, I would I would have gone
00:04:04
to a completely different high school.
00:04:05
So, it became a really no-brainer for me
00:04:07
to be like, I don't really want to go to
00:04:08
public high school. But, that's so
00:04:10
interesting that like it was a choice
00:04:12
for you because I just feel like it's
00:04:14
really not for most homeschoolers
00:04:16
because
00:04:17
>> I mean, I'm sure you ran into this or
00:04:18
have run into this of like that
00:04:20
messaging of like public school is bad
00:04:22
and it's going to corrupt your kids. So
00:04:23
like did that exist in your house and
00:04:25
your parents were just like were willing
00:04:26
to kind of like fight against that and
00:04:29
like you know be a part of Lauren's
00:04:31
education even if she does go to public
00:04:33
school.
00:04:34
>> Yeah. So I think when they started out
00:04:36
they both had gone to public school. So
00:04:39
when they started out homeschooling it
00:04:41
really didn't have this religious
00:04:42
backing but my family is religious
00:04:45
right. Um, like I said, I grew up deep
00:04:46
in the evangelical church. And there
00:04:48
just so happens to be, and especially at
00:04:50
the the time frame in the late 90s and
00:04:52
early 2000s when we were homeschooling.
00:04:55
There ended up being a lot of messaging
00:04:56
around homeschooling saying that you
00:04:59
need to pull your kids from school so
00:05:01
that they don't fall into these evils or
00:05:04
um really just that you don't let
00:05:06
somebody else raise your kid. I hear
00:05:08
that line a lot. Don't let the public
00:05:09
school system raise your kid for you.
00:05:12
Um, and that if you want godly children,
00:05:13
you have to raise them up yourself. And
00:05:15
so that messaging definitely did creep
00:05:18
in over time. I remember as a young kid,
00:05:21
you know, driving past a school and all
00:05:23
the homeschool kids, we would joke like
00:05:24
wave to the prisoners or like when kids
00:05:27
were on a school bus, we would act like
00:05:29
it was a jail bus. Um, which in
00:05:31
hindsight is not funny, but we
00:05:34
definitely did view school as,
00:05:38
yeah, kind of a prison for children.
00:05:40
like sitting in a class eight hours a
00:05:42
day in indoctrination. I don't know if
00:05:44
that's something that that necessarily
00:05:46
my parents ever said to me. I don't
00:05:47
think they would ever say that or if
00:05:49
that was just more culturally what kind
00:05:51
of came about. But by the time that I
00:05:53
decided to home or to public school, I
00:05:56
should say. Um I don't think they were
00:05:59
thrilled about it. I don't think that it
00:06:00
was like an equal option in their mind.
00:06:02
I think that um they would have
00:06:04
preferred that I had homeschooled
00:06:06
because of kind of the cultural
00:06:07
conversation at that time. Well, they
00:06:09
were probably stoked when you were like,
00:06:10
"Okay, I want back." Uh, yes. They want
00:06:13
back into the the thing. You know what's
00:06:16
interesting is like like you said, like
00:06:17
it's not necessarily that your parents
00:06:19
were sending the message of like, "Oh,
00:06:20
that's indoctrination." Or anything like
00:06:22
that because like my parents were the
00:06:24
same way. I went to public school for a
00:06:25
couple years. Um, I started
00:06:27
homeschooling in second grade, did it
00:06:28
all the way through. My sister
00:06:31
>> kindergarten through through high school
00:06:33
was homeschooled. Um, and so my parents
00:06:37
never viewed public education as like I
00:06:40
think truly evil or at least that was
00:06:42
never the messaging we got, right? And
00:06:44
so
00:06:45
>> it's really the reason they pulled me
00:06:47
out had to do more with the school
00:06:48
systems in the area. They just were like
00:06:50
the test scores are not where we want
00:06:51
them to be. We think we can do better,
00:06:53
yada yada yada. So it's it's interesting
00:06:56
that like we didn't really get that
00:06:58
messaging necessarily from our parents,
00:07:00
but yet it still creeps in from like who
00:07:04
is it? Like for me it was the other
00:07:05
homeschool families. It just kind of
00:07:07
that subliminal messaging. Was that kind
00:07:08
of the same for you of like it was just
00:07:10
other homeschool friends?
00:07:11
>> Yes. I think it was other homeschool
00:07:13
families maybe who didn't have the
00:07:15
option to go to public school. They were
00:07:19
I think public school was used as a
00:07:20
threat in those families. If you're not
00:07:22
behaving, you're not doing your school.
00:07:24
That's kind of a cliche, but in my
00:07:26
family, going to public school was never
00:07:27
used as a threat. Um, but I think to
00:07:30
these other kids it was like truly this
00:07:31
is the bad thing that will happen to you
00:07:33
if you don't succeed in homeschooling.
00:07:36
And so there were these negative ideas
00:07:38
about it. And then alongside that a lot
00:07:40
of people who leave or start
00:07:42
homeschooling and previously were in
00:07:44
public school if they make that big life
00:07:47
shift there a lot of times were problems
00:07:50
with the public school that they went
00:07:52
to. whether they were getting bullied
00:07:53
and there wasn't really any way for them
00:07:55
to work that out or they had, you know,
00:07:58
ADHD like my brother and it just there
00:08:00
wasn't enough staff to really
00:08:01
accommodate all the kids. They didn't
00:08:03
have a good experience while they were
00:08:06
in public school. So, you're also
00:08:08
hearing firsthand from these other
00:08:10
elementary schoolers being like, "It was
00:08:12
terrible. Everyone, you know, I don't
00:08:14
know, was terrible." Basically.
00:08:16
>> Yeah. Exactly. You do hear it's like a
00:08:18
prison, right? Or it's like, like you
00:08:19
said with the ADHD thing, it's like they
00:08:21
couldn't they couldn't meet me where I
00:08:23
was or there wasn't the the services.
00:08:25
I've had multiple parents on here who
00:08:26
talk about like their kid needs a
00:08:28
service and the school just can't
00:08:30
provide it. So what's the option? Well,
00:08:32
let's just pull them out and do it at
00:08:33
home cuz we can give that to them. And I
00:08:36
think that's like a very it's an
00:08:38
interesting place where we exist because
00:08:39
I think that that's a valid
00:08:41
>> thought, right, and a valid reason to do
00:08:43
it. Um, I just had a public school
00:08:45
teacher on recently and she was talking
00:08:47
about the the need also for parents to
00:08:49
go to like the schoolboard meetings and
00:08:51
voice the fact that it's like we have
00:08:53
kids in this district who need these
00:08:55
services. How do we get them to them?
00:08:57
What what do we need to do? Who do we
00:08:58
need to elect? How do we need to
00:09:00
allocate the money? Like let's do that
00:09:02
thing so that we can provide those. Um,
00:09:05
so it's a it's a very it's a complicated
00:09:07
issue, right? It's like there's not
00:09:08
really just a like one-sizefits-all
00:09:10
band-aid that we can slap on this thing
00:09:12
and be like, "Hey, everybody's happy and
00:09:14
every problem is fixed."
00:09:15
>> Yeah. And that's why I always will say
00:09:17
to people, especially, you know, people,
00:09:19
friends of mine that knew that I
00:09:21
homeschooled and now they're thinking
00:09:22
about homeschooling their kids, they'll
00:09:23
come to me and I'm honest about what I
00:09:26
think are the drawbacks of homeschooling
00:09:28
for some people, but I'm also honest
00:09:31
that for some kids, I think it can be a
00:09:32
really great option. It can be a
00:09:34
beautiful thing. It can definitely
00:09:37
be the best educational option in some
00:09:39
cases if you're doing it right. And
00:09:41
that's why I think it's important that
00:09:43
some of us older homeschoolers are
00:09:44
having conversations like these so that
00:09:46
we can tell parents, hey, maybe this
00:09:48
isn't such a great way of doing it or
00:09:50
maybe there are better options because
00:09:52
I'm sure that you also have improvements
00:09:54
that you could make if you were to ever
00:09:56
homeschool your children. I think I had
00:09:59
a good homeschool education, but if I
00:10:00
were to ever homeschool children, I
00:10:02
would make some changes. Um, and I think
00:10:04
that new homesooled parents coming in,
00:10:06
they want to do the right thing. These
00:10:08
parents are not quitting their jobs and,
00:10:10
you know, teaching their children at
00:10:11
home full-time because they don't want
00:10:13
to invest in their children. So, I think
00:10:15
giving them the resources to actually do
00:10:16
it well is just really, really
00:10:18
important. Um, and we'll also make it
00:10:20
more obvious when homeschooling isn't
00:10:22
done well then because there will be
00:10:24
kind of this standard of how it how it
00:10:26
is done well. So what do you So in that
00:10:28
kind of vein then like what is it that
00:10:30
you think your parents did well in your
00:10:33
schooling and then what did they not do
00:10:35
so well?
00:10:36
>> What they did really well was giving me
00:10:38
autonomy over my education. I and again
00:10:42
this is going to be different for every
00:10:43
child. If you have a kid who doesn't
00:10:45
like school at all and they're not
00:10:47
motivated just saying do whatever you
00:10:49
want might not actually be serving that
00:10:51
child in the best way. But my family
00:10:54
really gave me the opportunity to do
00:10:56
what I wanted to do and to set really
00:10:58
high goals for myself. So what I set as
00:11:02
my goal was to graduate um with my
00:11:04
two-year degree, my associates degree
00:11:06
before I graduated high school because
00:11:08
of the way that the college and high
00:11:09
school graduation dates line up. Um and
00:11:12
so I was able to do that by going back
00:11:15
into the homeschool system. Whereas, if
00:11:17
I would have stayed in the public school
00:11:19
system, they actually only selected the
00:11:21
top, I want to say two or three kids to
00:11:24
be able to go to the college, whereas
00:11:27
the colleg's rules are just that you
00:11:29
have to be able to test in at a college
00:11:31
level.
00:11:31
>> Okay.
00:11:32
>> Um, so I was able to test in at a
00:11:34
college level and do that through
00:11:36
homeschooling, whereas I was not in the
00:11:38
top two students at the public school,
00:11:40
so I wouldn't have been able to go do
00:11:41
that. So, it really did save me a lot of
00:11:43
money and give me a lot more exposure to
00:11:46
other things. Um, and yeah, I think that
00:11:49
was a huge positive that would not have
00:11:50
been possible without homeschooling. Are
00:11:52
we talking like kind of a dual
00:11:53
enrollment situation where you're like,
00:11:55
"Okay, I'm going to take math, science,
00:11:57
whatever at the college." And that's
00:11:59
also going to correspond and and
00:12:01
translate to my high school education as
00:12:03
well where you're taking it once or are
00:12:04
you like, "Hey, I'm doing two separate
00:12:07
classes that are this is high school and
00:12:09
this is college level." So kind of a
00:12:13
mixture of both just because of the
00:12:16
nature of homeschooling I guess. Um I
00:12:18
did throughout so I went through 8th
00:12:22
grade and freshman year
00:12:24
to public school and then after that I
00:12:27
took like one art class at the public
00:12:29
school right um to maintain connections
00:12:34
there but otherwise I was testing out of
00:12:36
classes. I was not going on campus. I
00:12:38
was getting textbooks. It's called KIPP.
00:12:41
>> It's college level
00:12:44
>> entrance something. I don't know. But
00:12:46
it's in Minnesota. It's called a KIPP.
00:12:48
And you just read the textbook, go and
00:12:50
take the test, and if you pass, you get
00:12:51
the college credit. So, I was doing a
00:12:53
mixture of that, homeschool classes, and
00:12:56
then the public high school, one art
00:12:58
class. Once I became a junior, then I
00:13:01
was just full-time at the college, and
00:13:02
that was that was dual enrollment. and I
00:13:04
I stopped going to the public high
00:13:06
school or doing homeschool classes on my
00:13:08
own
00:13:08
>> because I I did some club exams as well,
00:13:10
right? It's like so I I'm I'm totally
00:13:12
familiar with that and um that was like
00:13:16
>> uh that saved me in college because I I
00:13:18
ended up doing college in three years
00:13:19
because I did summer school and then
00:13:22
also had some club exams under my belt
00:13:25
and that was a part of that.
00:13:27
>> I had looked at doing the college high
00:13:30
school thing and it was just a little
00:13:31
bit too much for me. Um,
00:13:34
>> and so yeah, but we had that dual
00:13:37
enrollment thing was that was the piece
00:13:39
that was too much. I could totally pick
00:13:41
up a textbook and then go test out of
00:13:42
something.
00:13:43
>> But let's talk about that experience cuz
00:13:45
I'm I obviously you had gone
00:13:48
>> for a year, year and a half uh to a
00:13:50
public school. So now transitioning,
00:13:52
you're in high school and now you're
00:13:53
going to a community college and a local
00:13:55
college. How's that transition? Because
00:13:58
like did you grow up with co-ops and
00:14:02
existing in a space where like you had
00:14:03
to be in a classroom setting at all or
00:14:05
was it very like hey we're doing school
00:14:07
at the dining room table kind of a thing
00:14:09
like I I don't know socialization comes
00:14:12
up a lot with homeschoolers right of
00:14:14
like how we interact when we do get to
00:14:16
like a college level we have to be in a
00:14:17
classroom or at a job or anything like
00:14:19
that. So was that difficult in high
00:14:21
school to transition into like a college
00:14:23
kind of class or was it fairly easy? The
00:14:26
community college was a hard transition
00:14:27
for me because when I was homeschooling
00:14:29
and then even at the public school, they
00:14:32
didn't really approach controversial
00:14:34
topics. But once you go into community
00:14:37
college, you are maybe more in depth
00:14:40
covering evolution. Um whereas then I'm
00:14:43
feeling kind of this religious pull
00:14:45
because I had done religious curriculum,
00:14:47
religious schooling primarily feeling am
00:14:50
I denying my faith or am I doing
00:14:54
something wrong? Um because there's also
00:14:58
this comparison to public school as
00:15:00
being an exposure to sin, an exposure to
00:15:04
the world. So I really felt like maybe
00:15:06
this is my test too, like maybe this is
00:15:08
my exposure to that. So I I think I had
00:15:12
a lot more of a culture shock and just
00:15:14
realizing like a lot of these things are
00:15:15
actually normal and it's okay to
00:15:18
>> have different opinions. Yeah.
00:15:20
>> Yeah. No, I think that's that's such an
00:15:22
interesting thing because like
00:15:24
>> my culture shock had less to do with
00:15:26
with religion because I went to I went
00:15:28
to a Christian college. So I and I
00:15:30
picked that specifically because I was
00:15:32
like I want the like the youth group
00:15:34
feel. I want that like okay for the most
00:15:37
part everybody I'm going to meet is
00:15:38
going to believe very similar to me.
00:15:40
Yeah. we're going to have our
00:15:41
differences. But it's interesting
00:15:42
because I remember my my sister went to
00:15:45
uh a local community college and
00:15:49
you know and she came home and she was
00:15:51
like, "Oh yeah, like I'm in class with
00:15:53
this this gay guy and and we're talking
00:15:55
about this in class and like all these
00:15:56
different things and I'm like I just
00:15:58
can't
00:15:59
it wasn't until I was out of college
00:16:00
that I really I think felt the first
00:16:03
major exposure to those things." So
00:16:05
you're talking
00:16:06
>> 21 years old, 22 years old. Like that's
00:16:08
when that hit for me as opposed to like
00:16:11
I mean you're talking 16 17 years old
00:16:13
all of a sudden it's like yeah those are
00:16:15
the big things that if you grew up
00:16:17
religious we don't talk about these
00:16:18
things we don't push these agendas we
00:16:20
don't whatever and yeah there is that
00:16:22
combating kind of like can I even read
00:16:25
this textbook can I engage with this
00:16:27
conversation like
00:16:30
yeah let's talk a little bit about that
00:16:31
because like I I'm wondering like
00:16:35
I don't know if it's just the part of me
00:16:37
that loves to play devil's advocate, but
00:16:39
I have always I have always kind of been
00:16:40
that person who like I just kind of like
00:16:42
poking at people with the opposite of
00:16:45
their opinion or viewpoint.
00:16:47
>> Yeah.
00:16:47
>> So maybe that wasn't quite as hard for
00:16:49
me, but it was this denying of like my
00:16:51
faith like when it came to abortion and
00:16:53
and you know,
00:16:55
>> gay marriage and evolution and stuff
00:16:57
like that, like I liked picking the side
00:16:58
of like pro those things. So,
00:17:01
>> but I also felt kind of dirty about it.
00:17:03
So, like, yeah.
00:17:04
>> What was what was going through your
00:17:06
head as you were sitting in science
00:17:07
class and you're like, "Okay, we're
00:17:08
studying evolution now. What am I
00:17:10
supposed to do with this?"
00:17:12
>> Yeah. I had kind of this
00:17:14
>> like God's not dead moment. It was very
00:17:18
immature, but I remember coming home and
00:17:20
just being like, "We're talking about
00:17:22
Earth science and I don't believe in
00:17:25
evolution." I had grown up being taught
00:17:27
creationism. I believed that the Earth
00:17:29
was 6,000 years old. And so I knew I
00:17:34
understood that this other viewpoint was
00:17:35
out there, but writing the correct
00:17:39
answers down felt like they were asking
00:17:42
me to deny my faith, which they were
00:17:44
not. Um, they were quizzing me on the
00:17:46
textbook material whether I agreed with
00:17:48
it or not. Right. But it was very
00:17:52
Yeah, that was very difficult to me. I
00:17:54
was kind of encouraged by the people
00:17:56
around me to stand for my faith and not
00:17:59
write the actual real answers like to
00:18:01
write God as the answer or creation. I
00:18:04
did not do that. I had I really
00:18:06
struggled with it. I dealt with a lot of
00:18:08
anxiety around it. Um and a lot of I'll
00:18:11
give other examples too, but I really
00:18:14
struggled with it and feeling like is it
00:18:16
okay for me to do this? Is it okay that
00:18:18
I'm in these environments? Um, another
00:18:21
example, just like you were talking
00:18:23
about having so many different kinds of
00:18:25
people in one class. I went from being
00:18:28
homeschooled to being a 16-year-old in
00:18:30
the class and I learned what like being
00:18:32
gender fluid was. This was in my sign
00:18:34
language class and I remember that was
00:18:36
like I had never heard of that before.
00:18:39
This was back in like 2013 or 14, so no
00:18:43
one really was talking about this stuff.
00:18:44
And I remember just being like, yeah, is
00:18:47
it even okay that I'm here, that I'm
00:18:49
being exposed to this? Like, I just was
00:18:51
really concerned about
00:18:54
those things. And it came up in a lot of
00:18:56
ways. You know, we also were of the type
00:18:59
of Christianity that didn't believe in
00:19:00
yoga. I didn't know that until I had
00:19:03
signed up for a yoga course. And that
00:19:05
was my gym credit. I couldn't kind of
00:19:08
just get out of that. And so there were
00:19:11
really weird mental gymnastics I was
00:19:13
doing where, you know, my Christian
00:19:15
friends were like, "We're going to pray
00:19:16
for you and then while you're in yoga,
00:19:18
just be praying the entire time so that
00:19:20
you're not possessed by like the
00:19:22
spiritual music that's playing or the
00:19:24
positions that you're doing." And so
00:19:27
that was kind of a a bit of a head game.
00:19:29
And then even with art class, my intro
00:19:31
to art class had a nude model. And um I
00:19:35
was advised, which this is another thing
00:19:37
I did not do, but they were going to
00:19:39
have a man come in and be a nude artist.
00:19:41
And I was kind of talking about my
00:19:45
like moral concerns about going to that
00:19:48
class with some some mentors of mine.
00:19:51
And they encouraged me to look up
00:19:53
pictures of infants so that when I go to
00:19:57
this art class, I would never have to
00:19:58
look up at the adult man and I could
00:20:00
just draw infant genitalia, which is so
00:20:03
much worse, so much grosser, weirder,
00:20:07
>> wronger. Um, and so like I think there
00:20:11
was a lot of confusion for me going in
00:20:13
this environment where people were a lot
00:20:14
more just accepting and liberal and
00:20:17
trying these things and
00:20:20
I had not seen anything like that.
00:20:22
Everyone that I knew lived exactly like
00:20:24
me. It was my only view of the world.
00:20:26
But now in hindsight I credit a lot of
00:20:28
those things or um like one of the
00:20:30
programs run by the Muslim Student
00:20:32
Association. I credit those types of
00:20:34
things for really pushing me forward in
00:20:37
life and opening my mind because I
00:20:39
couldn't imagine without those
00:20:41
experiences, you know, what kind of
00:20:42
adult I would be now. Um, today,
00:20:46
>> yeah, the yoga thing is so interesting
00:20:48
because it it's reminding me of I I had
00:20:51
a I was a dancer back in the day. I did
00:20:53
swing and ballroom and English country,
00:20:56
a lot of the weird homeschooly type
00:20:58
stuff, but it was fun. It's fun. And
00:20:59
it's, you know, um that was my mom's way
00:21:02
of kind of being like, "Hey, Jacob's
00:21:03
going to need to know how to talk to
00:21:04
girls, so like let's put him in dance
00:21:06
class." Um kind of a thing. And hey, it
00:21:08
worked. So, um but anyway, but I had an
00:21:12
I had a back injury from from a dance
00:21:14
accident. And it was so funny because in
00:21:18
therapy, they had me do yoga. And I
00:21:20
remember not really thinking much of it
00:21:22
at the time, but just kind of being
00:21:23
like, "Okay, this is what the doctor's
00:21:25
telling me to do." You know, whatever.
00:21:27
It feels good. it helps, you know, it's
00:21:29
taking the pain away.
00:21:30
>> And I remember posting about it on
00:21:32
Facebook or something about how these
00:21:35
yoga stretches were like really helping
00:21:36
me and the flood of comments of people
00:21:39
being like that is demonic, that is
00:21:40
evil, sinful, you need to repent and
00:21:43
like all these things. And I was like,
00:21:44
how can something that's helping me so
00:21:46
much and something that not only I use,
00:21:48
but like my parents were, you know, I
00:21:50
was teaching them like, hey, here we do
00:21:52
this and this will like open you up and
00:21:54
all these different things. you know,
00:21:55
we're all using this thing at my house
00:21:57
and somehow this is evil and wicked and
00:22:00
we've been deceived uh by that and so
00:22:03
>> kind of along that same lines other
00:22:04
gods.
00:22:05
>> Exactly. I'm like I'm not sitting here,
00:22:07
you know, praying to praying to the
00:22:10
Buddha. I'm just like I'm just, you
00:22:12
know, using my body and and being
00:22:14
flexible and things like that. And so
00:22:15
it's just funny because I I credit that
00:22:18
with similar to you of like that was an
00:22:20
eye opening experience where it was like
00:22:22
>> I think the first time where I was like
00:22:23
I really just don't believe that this is
00:22:26
wrong like this this can't be a sinful
00:22:28
thing like our bodies are designed to
00:22:30
move and they are you know
00:22:32
>> I don't know um I also just would put my
00:22:35
always tell myself my own
00:22:36
interpretation. I'm like what do you
00:22:37
think Jesus did for 40 days in the
00:22:39
wilderness? He probably did some yoga
00:22:40
poses, you know, like I not just sitting
00:22:43
there.
00:22:44
>> Exactly. Like, um, so yeah. Well, let's
00:22:49
Okay, so so now that we've gotten
00:22:51
through high school,
00:22:52
>> did we move on to like a four-year?
00:22:54
Obviously, you would have transferred in
00:22:56
probably in like a sophomore, junior
00:22:58
year level, but did you go to college
00:23:00
after after that?
00:23:02
>> Yes. So, I didn't really know what I
00:23:05
wanted to do um after I graduated high
00:23:07
school, but I had my associates and
00:23:10
everyone at the community college gave
00:23:11
me really good advice. A lot of them
00:23:13
were, you know, older adults, much older
00:23:15
adults who were coming back to school
00:23:17
and they just encouraged me like just go
00:23:20
and get a degree and it doesn't matter
00:23:22
what it was. And for me, that ended up
00:23:24
being really good advice. I wasn't, you
00:23:26
know, my dream is now to become like a
00:23:27
doctor or something. So, I went and I
00:23:29
just moved on and got a communications
00:23:31
degree from a four-year college
00:23:34
marketing degree. And that was honestly,
00:23:40
I think because it was people my age, it
00:23:42
was almost less of a culture shock. Um,
00:23:44
because the community college, you know,
00:23:46
we were there was just a lot of people
00:23:48
at different life stages. So, I think I
00:23:50
was exposed to more. So, I think it was
00:23:52
actually almost easier going into the
00:23:55
four-year college environment with a
00:23:58
bunch of other 18-year-olds. And I also
00:24:00
felt like that style of college felt
00:24:03
more like co-op to me where you have
00:24:04
class once a week.
00:24:06
>> Um, then you're doing all your homework
00:24:07
for the week. A lot of it is self-led,
00:24:09
not all of it because you do have a
00:24:11
teacher, but I I liked the scheduling in
00:24:14
college a lot more than in high school
00:24:16
um when you didn't have as much control.
00:24:18
I'm wondering too because one of the
00:24:19
things I realized when I got to college
00:24:21
was some of the sheltering that had
00:24:24
existed in my home school experience. So
00:24:26
like there was a lot of pop music and
00:24:27
just like pop culture in general that I
00:24:29
had just kind of missed. And I wasn't
00:24:31
totally like removed from everything.
00:24:33
Like I did go to the movies. I was
00:24:35
allowed to do that. I did listen to
00:24:36
music and I knew who some pop stars were
00:24:39
but just not everybody
00:24:40
>> and that kind of a thing. But when I got
00:24:42
to college, because I majored in music
00:24:44
business,
00:24:45
>> all of a sudden I had to play so much
00:24:47
catchup of like who is Kanye West, you
00:24:50
know. Um, which you know that like that
00:24:53
was a big one. Um, I remember just like
00:24:55
hours and hours listening to hiphop and
00:24:57
rap and like learning all of the boy
00:24:59
bands. I just posted about this on on
00:25:01
one of my social medias about like I
00:25:03
didn't know who like any of the boy
00:25:04
bands were and like having to learn all
00:25:06
of that one direction was like at the
00:25:07
height of their popularity. like and I
00:25:09
was like, "Okay, I need to know
00:25:11
everything there is to know about these
00:25:12
things." And so, was there anything like
00:25:14
that in college where you're like,
00:25:15
"Okay, I'm with my peers and yeah, I
00:25:17
feel more comfortable and maybe that's
00:25:18
less of a culture shock, but did you
00:25:20
were you missing out on any of the pop
00:25:22
cultury type stuff?"
00:25:24
>> Yeah. Yeah, we missed out on a lot of
00:25:25
that. I think
00:25:27
I think my family used what is it
00:25:30
called? It's not focus on the plugged in
00:25:32
is maybe it's called.
00:25:34
>> Yeah. Um, they use plugged in when we
00:25:36
were younger to kind of screen what
00:25:38
movies and books we would read. We
00:25:39
weren't allowed to watch Pokemon or
00:25:41
Power Rangers or whatever, you know,
00:25:44
just kind of shows that certain Disney
00:25:47
movies maybe that had too like much
00:25:48
magic in them, stuff like that. And then
00:25:53
as I got older, just a lot of the more
00:25:55
pop like Twilight I wasn't allowed to
00:25:56
watch. So, I do feel like even still
00:25:58
into my adult life, um even just the
00:26:01
other day I was out at dinner and there
00:26:02
was like four movies. People were like,
00:26:04
"Have you seen this?" And I'm like,
00:26:04
"Just assume I haven't seen any of it."
00:26:07
Um because we really didn't watch TV
00:26:12
that often and then when we did it was
00:26:14
pretty regulated, which I honestly think
00:26:18
probably a net positive. I I don't think
00:26:21
I would go so far um if I had my own
00:26:24
kids in monitoring things or like do I
00:26:27
need to read the book before my child
00:26:28
reads it? Probably not. Um but I do also
00:26:33
think with how prevalent stuff on the
00:26:35
internet is right now. I do think that
00:26:37
more parents could probably be doing
00:26:38
more research into what their kids are
00:26:40
consuming. So there is kind of I don't
00:26:42
know this middle middle area to the
00:26:44
extremes that I think is probably
00:26:46
>> probably healthy. But definitely in
00:26:48
college, I would say the the media, so
00:26:50
the the music that I listened to, the mo
00:26:53
movies that I had watched, shows I had
00:26:55
watched, all of that was
00:26:58
pretty limited. I didn't really know
00:27:00
what people were talking about. And
00:27:01
actually, it was to the point where my
00:27:03
nickname for the first two, well, I went
00:27:05
to college for three years because I
00:27:06
added a minor at the end, but they
00:27:10
nicknamed me Amish for the first two
00:27:12
years. Um, and like there was kind of
00:27:15
this running backstory that was a joke
00:27:17
that I had escaped a cult and like was
00:27:19
on my Rumspringer or whatever. And um,
00:27:23
uh, someone gifted me once like an Amish
00:27:25
romance novel because it just was so
00:27:28
obvious to other people and you know,
00:27:29
fortunately we all had good humor about
00:27:32
it and they understood that it's like,
00:27:33
yeah, Lauren's just not going to know.
00:27:35
But I noticed that a lot more. Yeah.
00:27:38
Yeah. When I went to college,
00:27:40
>> that's funny. Yeah. Uh I fortunat I
00:27:43
don't think I had any nicknames like
00:27:45
that but I definitely one of the things
00:27:47
>> a blessing probably
00:27:48
>> a little bit. Yeah. But I I definitely
00:27:50
one of the things that I did in college
00:27:52
I was weirdly really kind of like
00:27:55
embarrassed and ashamed of being a
00:27:57
homeschooler. Like when I was at home I
00:27:58
don't care but but that's all my friends
00:28:00
were homeschooled. So it's like it
00:28:01
didn't really matter. But in college I
00:28:04
had kind of decided I moved across the
00:28:05
country. I was moved from California to
00:28:07
Illinois. I I had decided like this is
00:28:09
my chance to reinvent myself. I get to
00:28:11
be whoever I want to be at college.
00:28:13
>> And so I had just made this decision
00:28:16
that I was like, I'm not going to tell
00:28:17
anybody I'm homeschooled. I'm just going
00:28:18
to say I went to private school,
00:28:20
>> really small, and I'm going to chalk it
00:28:22
up to that. I can, you know, hide behind
00:28:24
the religious aspect of like I am in a
00:28:26
religious school. So like, you know,
00:28:28
it's probably not going to be that
00:28:29
strange that I haven't seen Harry Potter
00:28:31
um or or listen to Kanye West, right?
00:28:33
It's like just stuff like that. But I
00:28:35
was like, I can kind of like duck behind
00:28:38
some other things and probably get away
00:28:40
with it. And what's so funny is I had a
00:28:42
professor who really quickly pulled me
00:28:44
into her office and she was like, "Yo,
00:28:46
you got to like learn to chill." And I
00:28:47
was like, "What do you mean?" And she's
00:28:49
like, "You're just doing too much." I
00:28:50
was like, "I don't even know what that
00:28:51
means." And she's like, "You're just
00:28:53
like you talk too much. You're like
00:28:55
you're just like trying too hard to be
00:28:58
like a normal kid." And she's like,
00:29:00
"What? Why is that?" And I came clean
00:29:02
with her and I was like, "I was
00:29:03
homeschooled." and she's like, "Oh,
00:29:05
okay. So, here's what we're going to do.
00:29:08
Take a breath when you're with a group
00:29:10
of people. Just like you got to just
00:29:11
learn to hang." Like, that's the that
00:29:14
was the thing. And I was like, "Okay."
00:29:15
And so, once I get I think I figured it
00:29:17
out fairly quickly. There's definitely
00:29:19
still things that people pick up on that
00:29:21
I'm like they're like, "Oh, yeah, that
00:29:23
makes that makes sense." When it comes
00:29:24
out that I'm homeschooled, they're like,
00:29:25
"Oh, yeah, that definitely makes sense."
00:29:27
There always is a little something that
00:29:29
I can spot in other homeschoolers and
00:29:31
it's never a bad thing but it always
00:29:32
hurts a little bit when someone's like
00:29:34
were you homeschooled like when people
00:29:36
notice it in me I'm like uh I haven't
00:29:38
recovered as much as I thought.
00:29:41
>> Yeah. It's always just it's something
00:29:43
subtle like I don't like it's it's a way
00:29:45
we talk about something or like I Yeah.
00:29:48
Like I like for me it's it's getting
00:29:50
called out on like oh you haven't seen
00:29:51
this thing. Typically, it's
00:29:54
>> it's that trigger or saying like
00:29:56
>> I I mean I didn't watch Harry Potter
00:29:57
till I was an adult, right? So, it's
00:29:58
like, you know, I don't have the
00:30:01
connection to those movies that other
00:30:02
people do and they're like,
00:30:04
>> why is that?
00:30:05
>> Well, I was a homeschool kid, guys. And
00:30:09
they're like, oh, okay, this easily, you
00:30:12
know, marks it off as as kind of the
00:30:15
you're good. Well, I want to talk let's
00:30:17
talk a little bit about kind of what
00:30:19
you're doing now. So I mean you you
00:30:21
mentioned about unreligiously and its
00:30:22
commentary on
00:30:25
Christianity as it sits today and the
00:30:27
religious environment.
00:30:28
>> I have kind of I would say binging
00:30:32
probably most of your content. I've been
00:30:34
going back through the archives and and
00:30:35
you've got some really cool stuff in
00:30:37
there around I mean a lot of topics that
00:30:39
have been hit on in the show before, but
00:30:41
like purity culture and deconstruction
00:30:43
and those types of things. So tell me a
00:30:46
little bit about like where where did
00:30:48
you get the drive to kind of do that and
00:30:50
then and then what are you doing over
00:30:53
there and what's the mission?
00:30:54
>> Yeah. Well, I feel like just growing up
00:30:56
homeschooling and then with the
00:30:58
religious background that I did, I have
00:31:00
this cultural background almost that now
00:31:04
we're very decentralized. We can't share
00:31:07
with each other. So, I kind of hold it
00:31:09
alone and I wanted to create something
00:31:10
where I could connect with other people
00:31:12
who either could relate to the
00:31:14
homeschooling or the religious
00:31:16
background that I grew up in. Um, we
00:31:20
don't focus only on homeschooling. I
00:31:22
definitely have talked a lot about
00:31:23
homeschooling. I have videos about kind
00:31:26
of comparing the experience of
00:31:28
homeschooling to that of third culture
00:31:30
kids, which is where they grow up in one
00:31:32
country and then for their entire adult
00:31:34
life, they move somewhere else. So,
00:31:35
their adult culture is completely
00:31:37
different than what they grew up in
00:31:38
childhood. Um, doesn't really exist
00:31:40
anymore for them. I have videos about
00:31:42
that. Like you said, purity culture. Um,
00:31:44
and I do a lot of deep dives on
00:31:47
individual
00:31:49
creators or couples, but I try not to
00:31:53
snark on people. I try to really explain
00:31:57
on both sides of you. maybe where the
00:31:59
Christian viewpoint would be coming
00:32:00
from. And then also what my viewpoint
00:32:02
now would be as somebody who leans
00:32:04
atheist, agnostic and um yeah, it's just
00:32:08
not there anymore. But I don't have hard
00:32:11
feelings either towards my upbringing. I
00:32:13
don't think extremism is healthy in any
00:32:15
form. So we talk about what what is
00:32:17
healthy religion, what is not healthy
00:32:19
religion and kind of all of its forms in
00:32:21
America. Recently too, I would say
00:32:23
specifically Christian nationalism is a
00:32:25
big topic. Um, the religious liberty
00:32:29
commission is operating right now. It's
00:32:33
set for a year period and they're a
00:32:35
little bit over halfway through. And
00:32:37
part of the religious liberty commission
00:32:39
is talking about education and what's
00:32:42
going to be happening for the future of
00:32:43
education. Homeschooling is a part of
00:32:45
that. So, I have videos about that and
00:32:47
just things that would kind of impact
00:32:48
people who grew up like us um impact
00:32:50
their kind of their worlds.
00:32:53
>> Yeah. No. And I highly encourage my
00:32:54
audience like if any of this is
00:32:56
interesting to you, definitely it's
00:32:58
going to be linked down below. If you're
00:32:59
watching on video, it's popping up
00:33:00
somewhere on the screen probably as
00:33:02
well. But unreligiously is Lauren's
00:33:04
channel. Go deep dive over there. I'm
00:33:06
curious a little bit because I'm also
00:33:08
deconstructed Christian. And so if you
00:33:13
don't mind like talk a little bit about
00:33:14
that process for you because it's what's
00:33:18
so interesting is there was a long time
00:33:19
for me where I felt like it started in
00:33:22
college and then I was like no it
00:33:23
started when I was like 22 23 I was out
00:33:26
of college kind of a thing but more
00:33:28
recently I have really started to
00:33:30
realize that my deconstruction started
00:33:32
all the way back like in high school.
00:33:35
And
00:33:36
>> so anyway, I'm going to I'm going to
00:33:38
turn over to you, but like tell me a
00:33:40
little bit about like your
00:33:41
deconstruction journey of like where
00:33:42
does it start? What was kind of the the
00:33:44
first domino to fall in a lot of senses
00:33:46
where you're like, "Okay, something's
00:33:48
not adding up here."
00:33:49
>> Yeah. Well, so I I mean, I was always a
00:33:52
Christian. I gave my heart to Jesus when
00:33:55
I was 5 years old. Um and I didn't
00:33:58
really question it. All of my friends
00:34:00
were Christians. Um grew up
00:34:02
homeschooling like we've talked about.
00:34:03
So, we were kind of in that bubble where
00:34:05
there wasn't a lot of other viewpoints.
00:34:08
But I do think that then once I went to
00:34:11
public school and then community
00:34:12
college, I was starting to grapple with
00:34:16
these questions a lot more, thinking
00:34:18
about things like, can I write this
00:34:20
answer on my test? And if not, why does
00:34:24
God care that like God knows that I
00:34:26
really believe that the earth is 6,000
00:34:28
years old, so why does God care if I'm
00:34:30
writing the correct answer down on a
00:34:32
test to get the the right points or why
00:34:33
does God care if I'm stretching to help
00:34:36
my physical injury? I think I just had a
00:34:38
lot more of these, not I don't even want
00:34:40
to say they're like deep theological
00:34:42
questions, but really these practical
00:34:44
life questions about religion coming up
00:34:46
for me. And then there also was a lot of
00:34:49
pressure on me at my church. Um, we I
00:34:52
think because we were homeschooled and a
00:34:54
lot of other people were homeschooled,
00:34:56
they would use the kids to set up and
00:34:58
tear down because we were a church
00:35:00
plant. We didn't have a permanent
00:35:01
building. Yeah.
00:35:02
>> So, like on youth group days, we'd be
00:35:05
getting there at 3:00 and wouldn't be
00:35:07
leaving till 10:00 because we'd be
00:35:08
setting up and tearing down. And they
00:35:11
had like another homeschooler learn to
00:35:12
code and she did the website for
00:35:14
everything for the church. like we just
00:35:17
were
00:35:18
very we were worked very hard. I think
00:35:21
um my my little brother is another
00:35:23
example. He was like not even old enough
00:35:26
to be in youth group and they had him
00:35:27
actually running the worship team for a
00:35:29
youth group with kids older than him
00:35:31
because again it's just like when you're
00:35:33
homeschooled people think you have a lot
00:35:35
of free time which in some cases you
00:35:37
might but you know it it was a lot of
00:35:40
pressure. So that all really led to my
00:35:41
deconstruction. and I had to start
00:35:42
really thinking about these topics,
00:35:44
thinking about is it worth it for me to
00:35:46
stay. Um, but I didn't actually stop
00:35:49
believing in God until I was probably 24
00:35:53
or 25 years old. I would say I it really
00:35:56
took me a long time to even admit to
00:35:59
myself really basic things like I don't
00:36:01
believe in hell anymore. it. I I
00:36:03
remember not believing in hell for a few
00:36:05
years before I could even tell my
00:36:07
childhood best friend who had also
00:36:09
deconstructed. Um because I was so
00:36:11
scared that I don't even know that if I
00:36:14
spoke it out loud that then I would go
00:36:16
to hell or I could be leading my friends
00:36:18
astray and down the wrong path because
00:36:21
of my own unbelief. And so there was
00:36:23
just a lot of fear and silence wrapped
00:36:24
up in it. But the funny part is that now
00:36:27
that I have deconstructed
00:36:30
and I've talked more openly with my
00:36:32
friends about it, obviously I have my
00:36:33
YouTube channel so people know it. It
00:36:37
come, you know, come to find out that a
00:36:38
lot of people actually were going
00:36:39
through the same process as me on
00:36:41
basically the same timeline as me, but
00:36:43
none of us felt comfortable enough to
00:36:46
talk about it with each other. Um, so
00:36:48
that's kind of really the the events
00:36:50
that led to my deconstruction. It's not
00:36:52
anything massive. It's just this anxiety
00:36:55
in real life kind of pushing against my
00:36:57
faith, I think. But yeah, now I I still
00:37:01
have a positive view of religion in
00:37:03
general. I think that you can do
00:37:05
religion in a very healthy way. But I do
00:37:08
think that how I grew up with
00:37:10
evangelicalism
00:37:11
specifically in America, um, which is
00:37:14
kind of the the denomination credited
00:37:16
with Christian nationalism, I think that
00:37:18
they have become very legalistic in a
00:37:21
lot of ways and may may not be the most
00:37:24
healthy thing for most people.
00:37:26
>> One of the things that really struck me
00:37:27
with what you just said was like the not
00:37:30
even wanting to tell your like your
00:37:31
friends. like
00:37:33
>> that was that was difficult for me too
00:37:35
because
00:37:36
>> growing up one in the home school
00:37:38
community but two in the church
00:37:39
community it's very much like those are
00:37:42
your people that is your world for a lot
00:37:45
of it and so even at 24
00:37:49
to come out and say like I don't buy
00:37:51
into this anymore is like scary because
00:37:55
all of a sudden like those people for me
00:37:57
were still my friends they were still my
00:38:00
connection um to that world. And so
00:38:03
there is that like am I just going to be
00:38:06
cut out of all of this because I've seen
00:38:08
that happen.
00:38:09
>> Yeah. And so there is kind of that like
00:38:13
do I am I ready to let go of that?
00:38:16
Because that's what it is to to really
00:38:18
publicly say it out loud. And even like
00:38:19
telling my parents like that was just
00:38:21
terrifying because
00:38:23
>> I know friends who who are are gay or
00:38:26
gender fluid and like when they came out
00:38:28
like their parents were like kick them
00:38:29
out of the house, get out of here kind
00:38:30
of a thing. And I was like
00:38:32
>> not that my I mean I was on my own. I
00:38:33
lived on my own like but it just
00:38:36
>> there was that fear in me of like is
00:38:38
this it? like is this the end of my
00:38:40
relationship with these people? And so
00:38:42
>> yeah,
00:38:43
>> but come to find out, as soon as you
00:38:44
talk about it, then other people feel
00:38:45
the confidence, right, to be like, oh
00:38:47
yeah, like I I'm in the same boat as
00:38:48
you, right? And you're like, holy crap,
00:38:50
like
00:38:51
>> what? Like why have we not been talking
00:38:53
about this for four years, you know?
00:38:54
Like we've been kind of going back and
00:38:56
forth with these questions for a while
00:38:58
now. And so I don't know about you, but
00:39:01
like I definitely feel so much more
00:39:03
confident in talking about those things
00:39:05
with with people even who are still in
00:39:07
it because I'm just like
00:39:09
>> I just don't think it's a valid enough
00:39:10
reason for you to cut me out of your
00:39:11
life and I'm not going to cut you out of
00:39:13
my life just because you believe
00:39:15
something different than me.
00:39:16
>> Yeah, I would completely agree with
00:39:17
that. I will say one thing that has been
00:39:20
hard. I have dealt with people cutting
00:39:22
me off because I no longer am a
00:39:24
Christian. Although that hasn't been the
00:39:26
primary response from people. I think
00:39:28
the primary response has been people
00:39:31
being like deeply disturbed on my
00:39:33
behalf.
00:39:36
>> Yeah. And then they'll, you know,
00:39:38
they've let me know multiple people,
00:39:40
this isn't one person, that they're
00:39:43
praying for me daily for my salvation.
00:39:45
And so I think for me too, I've gotten a
00:39:48
lot better about being open about it,
00:39:50
but it's also still hard in some ways
00:39:53
because it feels like causing people
00:39:55
unnecessary pain or it feels like by
00:39:58
being honest that then you're burdening
00:40:00
them with this like this the weight of
00:40:03
your soul. I don't know if that's
00:40:04
something that you experienced with your
00:40:06
family at all.
00:40:07
>> Yeah, I I definitely did. It's it's
00:40:10
really funny because so in college I
00:40:13
took a religions class and one of the
00:40:15
the goals of that class was we went and
00:40:16
looked at a lot of different church
00:40:18
denominations. So I grew up going to
00:40:20
Baptist church. Then I went to a
00:40:22
non-denominational church that had a lot
00:40:23
of ties to Calvary Chapel. So very
00:40:25
similar in that vein.
00:40:27
>> And then I went to a school that was a
00:40:29
uh free Methodist school. So anyway, but
00:40:33
the professor his his goal was, hey,
00:40:35
we're going to go to all these different
00:40:36
things. So, we went to Catholic mass and
00:40:38
then we did free Methodist and we did a
00:40:40
Baptist church and but we also went to a
00:40:42
Jewish synagogue and we also went to uh
00:40:44
an Islamic mosque and that was so eye
00:40:48
opening because
00:40:50
I wanted to go in there and be very
00:40:52
combative. Um because that's just kind
00:40:54
of what you're trained to do, right?
00:40:55
Like
00:40:56
>> defend the faith.
00:40:58
>> Yeah. The Jews and the Muslims, they
00:40:59
don't believe the same thing we do. Um
00:41:00
the Jews are a little bit closer, but
00:41:02
they just don't have the full picture
00:41:03
yet. Um
00:41:05
but so I wanted to be combative and
00:41:07
there were definitely people on that
00:41:08
trip who were very combative and for
00:41:11
whatever reason when we got there I just
00:41:12
was like you know what I'm just going to
00:41:13
hear these people out.
00:41:15
>> Yeah.
00:41:15
>> And specifically at the mosque the the
00:41:18
leader there he was like the thing with
00:41:20
religion is that the reason that we want
00:41:23
to minister and evangelize to each other
00:41:25
is because we love each other and
00:41:27
because we want to see each other in the
00:41:29
afterlife. That's the goal. That's the
00:41:30
whole reason. And so it shifted my view
00:41:33
of like when people do say the things of
00:41:36
like I'm praying for you or you know I'm
00:41:38
praying for your salvation. I understand
00:41:40
that it comes from a place of love.
00:41:42
>> Yeah.
00:41:42
>> It's a little twisted and it's not
00:41:44
always the greatest and you know
00:41:46
sometimes you kind of have this tough
00:41:47
conversations with people of like hey
00:41:48
like this feels really weird. I I don't
00:41:51
love that you do this for me or I I just
00:41:52
don't want to talk about it like that.
00:41:55
But that's but if if hopefully they're
00:41:57
open enough and willing enough, this is
00:42:00
not always the case, but if they are,
00:42:02
there are a lot of times that those
00:42:03
people are willing to hear you out and
00:42:04
say like they are not necessarily trying
00:42:06
to cause discomfort in your life. And in
00:42:08
the same way, I don't want to cause
00:42:10
discomfort in their life of them being
00:42:12
worried about my religious anything. I
00:42:15
can't control whether they do or not,
00:42:17
but like
00:42:18
>> at the end of the day, like
00:42:19
>> I'm good. I'm happy. I'm I'm living my
00:42:22
life. I'm enjoying it.
00:42:24
and I'm open and I'm willing to have
00:42:26
those conversations with you. I'm not
00:42:27
going to cut you out and I'm not going
00:42:28
to cut you off just because you want to
00:42:31
talk about those things.
00:42:33
>> Yeah,
00:42:33
>> that's just where I exist now. It's this
00:42:35
gray nebulous zone and I'm cool with
00:42:38
that and like
00:42:39
>> hopefully you can be too. um
00:42:42
>> that that's kind of the place I exist
00:42:44
right now and and it's
00:42:46
>> it works for some but same point as you
00:42:49
I mean I've lost a couple friends and
00:42:51
people along the way that are just kind
00:42:52
of like I can't they can't ride with
00:42:54
that and I'm like you know what all good
00:42:56
you go do you focus on you that's fine
00:43:00
have you since you have entered
00:43:03
adulthood left Christian college as well
00:43:05
have you tried to catch up at all on any
00:43:06
of the media any of the movies have you
00:43:09
watched Harry Potter
00:43:11
Yes, absolutely. Um, Harry Potter is now
00:43:14
like Yeah, I bought them for I think my
00:43:16
birthday this past year. I was like, I
00:43:17
got to have the fan.
00:43:18
>> Yeah. No, I'm a fan. And what's funny is
00:43:20
now I've like um I got my parents to
00:43:22
watch them. So like they're fans now.
00:43:25
Like there's definitely what's been cool
00:43:27
about I think me deconstructing is even
00:43:32
like even though a lot of my family is
00:43:34
still religious,
00:43:36
>> there are areas that they are willing to
00:43:38
kind of loosen up some of the reins
00:43:40
around the things that were so tight
00:43:42
when we were kids. Because I think you
00:43:45
had mentioned this earlier,
00:43:47
parents don't necessarily want bad
00:43:49
things for their kids. They want their
00:43:50
kids to grow up in a safe, loving
00:43:53
environment. They want to protect them
00:43:54
from the evils of the world and they're
00:43:56
kind of just trying the best they can.
00:43:59
Sometimes they get really bad advice and
00:44:01
they just roll with it. And it's not
00:44:03
until years later that they realize like
00:44:04
that was bad advice and I it didn't
00:44:06
really matter. We could have watched
00:44:08
Harry Potter and then had a conversation
00:44:09
around why
00:44:11
>> magic isn't real or this is witchcraft
00:44:13
or whatever.
00:44:14
>> Yeah,
00:44:14
>> we could have done that. we didn't
00:44:16
because that would that was the harder
00:44:18
option as opposed to just being like,
00:44:19
"Nope, we're not watching that."
00:44:21
>> And so I think that's been really
00:44:25
helpful is I have a lot of people in my
00:44:26
life that are again willing to have that
00:44:29
conversation of like, yeah, we screwed
00:44:31
up with this thing and we're we're going
00:44:35
to own that, but now let's like be
00:44:37
willing to like embrace something new
00:44:41
and see does it align with my beliefs or
00:44:44
not. And I keep reminding people who are
00:44:46
religious still, I'm like, if you still
00:44:49
believe, then you also have the power of
00:44:51
God on your side.
00:44:53
>> Yeah.
00:44:53
>> And
00:44:55
if you read the Bible, Jesus didn't shy
00:44:57
away from the people who disagreed with
00:45:00
him. He went right into the action. He
00:45:02
went right into the conversation and all
00:45:03
those types of things. And so I I try to
00:45:07
push them to do that same thing. It's
00:45:08
like engage with the thing that you're
00:45:10
against so that you understand what it
00:45:13
is before you really pass judgment on
00:45:15
it. And so
00:45:17
yeah, that's me I guess being really
00:45:19
preachy now. But
00:45:21
>> no, I think that's really relatable and
00:45:23
it I don't know something that strikes
00:45:25
me about watching your videos and then
00:45:27
just from our conversation conversations
00:45:29
that we've had together is that you grew
00:45:31
up in California. I grew up in Minnesota
00:45:34
and we homeschooled in very different
00:45:37
areas. We grew up in different churches,
00:45:39
um, different denominations, but there
00:45:42
still are so many similarities to the
00:45:45
culture of homeschooling. This un, I
00:45:48
don't know, unidentifiable thing that
00:45:50
makes it so we can tell who the other
00:45:52
homeschoolers are. Like, it is still the
00:45:55
same, which is really interesting to me.
00:45:57
And I wanted to know if you have any
00:45:59
theories why that is.
00:46:01
>> Oh, man. I can't figure it out to be
00:46:05
honest. that's been like
00:46:06
>> that that came up I think like literally
00:46:08
one of my like
00:46:09
>> early episodes was a buddy of mine we
00:46:11
were talking about
00:46:14
like he's been around the world he's
00:46:16
he's a missionary and he he is like he's
00:46:19
like I was in Thailand and I ran into
00:46:21
people and like just instantly knew that
00:46:23
they were like a homeschool family kind
00:46:25
of a thing and I think that's like
00:46:27
what's so it needs to be studied at some
00:46:30
point because like what is that magic
00:46:32
thing about the homeschool world that
00:46:35
Like is it a is it a smell? Is it a
00:46:38
hormone? Is it a look? Like what is that
00:46:40
thing that makes it that way? Because
00:46:43
even like
00:46:45
like you said like we grew up thousands
00:46:47
of miles apart from each other.
00:46:49
>> Yes.
00:46:49
>> Very different but also like very
00:46:51
similar. And so also what is shaping and
00:46:54
making those things that has been a
00:46:56
recent thing for me where I'm starting
00:46:58
to realize I'm like
00:47:00
okay like we got to start studying like
00:47:02
how is it that like you know this family
00:47:05
in Minnesota this family in California
00:47:06
have other people friends in New Jersey
00:47:09
like we all like kind of same timeline
00:47:12
very similar upbringing
00:47:15
h
00:47:15
>> how why is that what is that thing that
00:47:17
is driving that
00:47:19
that piece so I don't have an answer for
00:47:21
you But
00:47:23
>> it's interesting to think about um I
00:47:26
yeah I've had this conversation with
00:47:27
other homeschoolers as well and yeah
00:47:29
it's definitely like a well-known the
00:47:31
the X factor. It's like a well-known
00:47:33
thing but it's yeah nobody has been able
00:47:35
to
00:47:36
>> put their finger on it. So,
00:47:38
>> I'm curious. Um, you kind of touched on
00:47:40
it a little bit earlier, but like with
00:47:42
this next generation of homeschooling
00:47:44
that's coming, I think CO taught a lot
00:47:47
of people a lot of things, right? That,
00:47:49
you know, school could come into the
00:47:50
house and people could survive and some
00:47:54
people were like, hey, let's like let's
00:47:56
make this the permanent thing.
00:47:57
>> Um, and so there definitely is this kind
00:47:59
of major uptick right now in
00:48:01
homeschooling. And so when you have
00:48:04
friends who are coming to you or just
00:48:06
random people who are like, "Hey, I'm
00:48:07
thinking about doing this, but I don't
00:48:08
want to mess it up." What is what is I
00:48:10
guess like the major thing that you're
00:48:12
like, "Hey, look at this first to decide
00:48:15
whether you really want to do this."
00:48:17
>> What I normally say to people is to ask
00:48:20
themselves if they're doing it to expand
00:48:23
the kids' world or to kind of reduce the
00:48:26
kids world. Because I think there are
00:48:29
parents who homeschool because they
00:48:32
want to maybe overprotect. They want to
00:48:35
limit what their child is exposed to in
00:48:37
a way that I think does ultimately hurt
00:48:41
kids once they enter adulthood. Um I
00:48:44
don't think that you should be limiting
00:48:46
access to a quality well-rounded
00:48:48
education, knowing that, you know,
00:48:50
evolution is a theory, things like that.
00:48:52
that. So, I think if you're pulling your
00:48:53
kid out of school so that they have less
00:48:56
in their world, I think that is maybe
00:48:59
something that you should reconsider.
00:49:00
But if you're doing it to give them more
00:49:02
because your kid has a learning
00:49:04
disability and you can give them a
00:49:06
better education at home or for me, I
00:49:09
was able to do PSO and get my two-year
00:49:11
college degree and save a lot of money.
00:49:13
You know, I my world was opened broader
00:49:17
in the end, I think, because of
00:49:19
homeschooling. And so I just ask people
00:49:21
to kind of ask themselves that question
00:49:23
because the narratives around
00:49:25
homeschooling right now are different
00:49:27
than they were when we grew up, but
00:49:28
they're still almost entirely
00:49:30
fear-based. And that's not to say that
00:49:32
they're not legitimate. It is definitely
00:49:35
situation to situation in what area
00:49:37
school you're going to, what resources
00:49:39
are available. Um, but in a lot of
00:49:41
cases, um, the people that I see
00:49:43
homeschooling for religious reasons, for
00:49:45
example, they they kind of want to
00:49:47
shrink down the community, shrink down
00:49:49
what their kid has access to, um, and
00:49:52
all of that. I don't know if that makes
00:49:53
sense, but that's kind of what I direct
00:49:54
people to is just what's your motivation
00:49:56
behind it. Um, and then always be
00:49:58
willing to change because homeschooling
00:50:00
is not going to work for every kid. Um,
00:50:03
I have three siblings. Two of us opted
00:50:05
to do public school, two opted not to.
00:50:08
Um, and we definitely all learned very
00:50:10
differently and got very different
00:50:12
things and experiences out of
00:50:14
homeschooling. So, yeah, just being
00:50:16
flexible with yourself, too. If you know
00:50:18
it doesn't go well, that that's not a
00:50:19
failure is you being a home or in you
00:50:22
being a homeschool parent. Just like if
00:50:24
public school doesn't work out, it's not
00:50:25
a necessarily a failure on the school.
00:50:27
>> No, I I totally agree with you. That's
00:50:29
something that I've come to realize and
00:50:31
like I still I mean it's something I say
00:50:34
a lot on this show of like you got to
00:50:36
find the right fit for your kid. I know
00:50:38
that like who I am as a person, I
00:50:40
benefited from homeschooling.
00:50:42
I would have been fine in public school.
00:50:44
I I just I really would have the way my
00:50:46
brain works, the way that I operate as a
00:50:47
human being, I would have been fine. My
00:50:49
sister, I I think homeschooling was the
00:50:52
best option for her. Um I think she
00:50:55
would have needed maybe a different type
00:50:57
of school. But like
00:51:00
>> that's that's the thing is it's like my
00:51:02
parents were willing to kind of try an
00:51:04
experiment with us to to figure out the
00:51:06
things that worked and didn't work. And
00:51:08
so it was never a consistent thing. It
00:51:10
was always
00:51:11
>> an experiment and a test to see is this
00:51:13
program working? Is this home is this
00:51:15
curriculum working? Are these co-ops
00:51:17
working? Are these friends working? Yes.
00:51:19
No. If they weren't like we're moving
00:51:21
on, we're going to the next thing. And
00:51:23
so
00:51:24
>> that is again to your point of just like
00:51:26
it is a current it is a continual
00:51:28
optimization to figure out what works
00:51:30
best for for kids and in the education
00:51:32
world and hopefully it's to expand
00:51:35
because yeah I think that's that's my
00:51:38
biggest piece. I I talked about three
00:51:40
previously on a previous episode I
00:51:41
talked about three things that I want to
00:51:42
see different. The expansion piece is
00:51:44
one of those of just like let's cover so
00:51:46
much more than we did in the little
00:51:48
bubble that I existed in. So
00:51:50
>> yes. Anyway, Lauren, is there anything
00:51:52
else we haven't touched on that you feel
00:51:54
is important? Whether it's homeschool
00:51:55
related, religion, ex religion, anything
00:51:58
else, um, before I let you go,
00:52:01
>> well, I just am warning people right now
00:52:03
about the religious liberty commission.
00:52:05
I think it's going to make really big
00:52:06
changes when it comes to education and
00:52:08
not just for homeschoolers. It's going
00:52:10
to make a big difference when it comes
00:52:12
to public or sorry, private education,
00:52:15
um, online schooling, funding for
00:52:18
schools. It's going to make a big
00:52:20
difference in a lot of things. So, I
00:52:21
think it's worth paying attention to and
00:52:23
for anybody who watches this, I would
00:52:25
just encourage you to t take a look into
00:52:28
what is being done right now because no
00:52:30
matter what you choose to do with your
00:52:31
kids schooling in the future, this this
00:52:33
will impact it.
00:52:35
>> Yeah. No, that's that's a huge that's a
00:52:37
huge one. You brought that up when we
00:52:38
chatted previously and I started looking
00:52:40
into it
00:52:41
>> because of that. And something um again
00:52:44
on a recent episode I had a public
00:52:46
school teacher on the biggest piece of
00:52:47
advice that she gave for someone like
00:52:49
myself who I'm not planning on having
00:52:51
kids. I don't currently have kids but it
00:52:53
is one of those things where I still get
00:52:55
a vote on who runs the school programs.
00:52:58
And so being educated on those things
00:53:00
and talking to people who who do have
00:53:02
kids and and understanding how all of
00:53:04
that's operating like as a whole, I
00:53:07
think it's a net positive that we have
00:53:09
well educated kids, we got smart kids
00:53:11
and we give them the resources they
00:53:12
need, right? So those things are
00:53:14
important to me just as a human being
00:53:16
and that's what I want to see my tax
00:53:17
money go towards. So educate yourself
00:53:20
people that I'm going to link that down
00:53:22
below too so that people can easily find
00:53:24
it. But yeah, go go research that.
00:53:26
Lauren, this has been so much fun. I
00:53:27
appreciate you coming on.
00:53:28
>> Thank you so much for having me.
00:53:30
>> Of course. Of course. And uh to the
00:53:32
audience, of course, it has been the
00:53:34
Xomeschoolers club. I hope you enjoyed.
00:53:36
If you enjoyed, leave a comment. Let me
00:53:38
know your favorite part. If you got any
00:53:39
other questions for Lauren, maybe we'll
00:53:41
have her on do another another part. Be
00:53:43
sure to go check out her channel and
00:53:44
what she's doing over there. And until
00:53:46
next time, we'll see you. Peace.
