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What is good my ex-homies? It's your boy Jacob Gooden and uh we're back another
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week in the exhomeschoolers club. Today I'm so honored because I have a homeschool mom with us. Uh Kim is
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joining us and I'm so stoked to chat with her because she reached out about a
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couple different things and we started having conversations around homeschool stories, homeschool alumni stories. And
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one of the things that I've noticed a lot is that homeschool parents uh and homeschool parent alumni kind of they
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get sometimes triggered by some of the criticisms that us homeschool alumni like give. And Kim was not that way. She
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was very like understanding and wanted to listen and understands that a lot of what we talk about has more to do with
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like creating kind of like a wish list of things that we wish were different when we were kids and how can we impact
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the future generations of homeschoolers. So, we're going to get into some of
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that, but we're also going to hear Kim's story of being a homeschool mom. So,
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Kim, welcome to the Ex Homeschoolers Club. So, so happy to have you. >> Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate
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it. >> Let's kick things off with like your homeschool story. So, like tell me a
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little bit about your family and why you chose to homeschool your kids and just a
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little bit about like how long you homeschooled, the curriculum you used. Give us a little like snapshot of that
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whole thing. >> Well, my husband and I are both um certified teachers. We met in college
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and um we both taught in the classroom um for a while. I And then when I um when
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we had kids, we always said, you know, we could homeschool. Let's homeschool
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our kids. Um we never, you know, anti- public education. In fact, he's still a
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classroom teacher now. Um and but but as we looked for, you know, what what are how are we going to bring up our kids?
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you know, homeschooling was always sort of an option um that we wanted to explore and the you know, the why. Why
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do you why why do you want to do why do you want to homeschool? Um our biggest reasoning was because we felt like that
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would help create like a closeness within our family. Both of us grew up with siblings that we were not very
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close with. And so part of the goal of the way that we wanted to parent was to give our children each other in the end
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as friends. And so they're going to, you know, lean on each other long after
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we're gone. And so that was that was really the the the main goal of what we
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were aiming to do. And so, um, it kind of set us in in a weird place though because, um, back when we were
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homeschooling, back, you know, back back in the, you know, dark ages, um, people
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homeschooled and they kind of went into it like full full in and said, "We're
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going to homeschool all the way through. We're going to homeschool all of the
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kids." And ours was sort of more like a yearby-year. Let's evaluate how is this
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going, you know, are we on the right path kind of a thing. And so, um, I did a lot of, uh, research and, you know,
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using homeschool materials and trying to figure out, you know, what what our day
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would look like. It wouldn't look like a normal school day cuz I'd been in the
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classroom, you know, open the book, do this thing, you know, and like it it just wasn't going to be like that. It's
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more like a one room schoolhouse style because we have three kids. Um, and they were, you know, all two years apart from
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each other. So, there was sort of this sort of close-knit like if mama's going
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to read, we're you're all sitting down, we're going to read this together. But
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then they had, you know, activities that they would do kind of at their own levels, too. And the little one would
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wander away when she got bored and go find toys and entertain herself, you know, somewhere. And um and so, but but
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a lot of our goal was also to just enjoy childhood. um not just you know facilitating the time that they would
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spend with each other but in general just getting the chance to play a lot more than kids are getting to do in
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school anymore. They're, you know, here hold this pencil, do this worksheet, let
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me grade you on it. And so we were trying to get away from that kind of explore the possibilities. What what do
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we get to do with our time and enjoy ourselves as a family, you know? So with that being said then like what are some
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of those like extracurriculars or those like additional things that are outside of the classroom that you were like
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bringing in because like I know for for me my mom we we involved like museums was a big part of it and then like as
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far as like whatever extracurriculars we were interested like I was a dancer so dance was a big part of that and music
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was a big part of our lives and things like that. So, what were those extracurricular things that you were
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like, "Okay, let's bring those in um to our our school." >> Um my my oldest daughter was into
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gymnastics. We took her, you know, to try to do, you know, just some she was always moving and running and enjoyed
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jumping on the trampoline and stuff and we were like, "Okay, well, let's let's
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see how she likes gymnastics." And she like took to it like like she belonged
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in the gym. and um she ended up spending a good bit of time on competitive gymnastics as she went along too. So
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part of homeschooling was able to give her sort of that time and space to be able to devote to that. Um the younger
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ones they were more um you know diverse. They couldn't figure you know we tried
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them on t-ball and soccer and my my son said halfway through the soccer season he's like do I have to go
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practice? And I'm like why? And he's like, "Cuz I am tired of running." He
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was never like really super aggressive, so he'd like chase the pack. He never
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got to really kick the ball. I'm like, "I'd probably be tired of running,
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chasing back and forth with that, too." >> So, but they got to, you know, try try
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different things. But, um, the thing that really, um, we we spent a good bit of time also doing was reading, a lot of
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reading. Um, so a lot of our uh learning was literature-based and we found a homeschool co-op program that they did a
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period of history and then they did literature that surrounded that and then did um um fine arts that went along with
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that. So like when we were doing like um medieval history, they would read books
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that were about that time. I think Pilgrim's Progress or whatever came some of that stuff. And um and then uh and
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then they did um you know King Arthur and whatever, you know, as a play and and artwork that you know uh
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stained glass kind of you know art and stuff that went along with those the kind of art, music, history that kind of
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tied together all of that. And so we did that. I love that because like that's
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what you're describing is very similar to like I also had a smaller homeschool
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co-op that was three or four families and we would do what you're describing.
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We would pick a a history a period of history and we we did have like a history textbook that went with it but
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then we would read literature and do activities around it and we did some really cool stuff. Um, and uh, you know,
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you're talking about like the stained glass stuff and we would we would make
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like uh foam weapons that were medieval themed cuz a lot of us a lot of us were were guys. Um, I think there was only
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like my sister and maybe one other girl. And so um, you know, we and then we'd
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beat each other with foam swords and stuff like that. Um the one week that I we ended up missing, I found out later
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that all the guys had had created uh torches and poured gasoline and wrapped this thing and were walking around the
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front yard of this house uh carrying torches cuz they were going to go like stone a witch or something like that.
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And um and it's so funny they got in so much trouble, but I was so thankful I
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missed that week. But that was kind of the activity levels that my homeschool experience uh drew upon to some degree.
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I'm curious about like curriculum and and choosing curriculum because you were
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a school teacher. You obviously you're in that you were in that world already,
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but when it comes to the homeschool curriculum, there is such a wide variety of stuff out there. And so what did it
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like how was it going through choosing stuff for your kids and like how did that change over time? Like was it just
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kind of a matter of figuring out like this is not working for this kid so we're going to switch to this thing or
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like how was the curriculum choice situation? The curriculum that I chose in the beginning was five in a row and
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it's still um you know one that's kind of popular. It it they've re revised it.
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A lot of the books that they had were getting to be out of print and harder to find. But um I I liked sort of the
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philosophy of um like offering kids sort of like bite-sized, you know, information and kind of repetition of
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things. I I I like that that way of presenting the information. So, and it fit with sort of my um I didn't know at
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the time, but I I I have ADHD, too. Um and so my resistance to too much routine. I wanted some, you know,
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flexibility and following our interest and um for myself as well. And so that sort of interest based um project based
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unit studies things like that um were very um much my style and personality of how I could implement things too. Lots
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of creativity and hands-on, you know, crafts and projects and things like that. I didn't want to sit and do here
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read this text and do these quizzes and um that just didn't appeal to me. I didn't like that as a classroom teacher
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having to grade papers. So, um, and keep up on that. And so, there there was a good bit of th those
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kind of like group projects that were hands-on um that we did. And then, and then um
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there were materials that I had picked, you know, I had never really taught anybody how to read. Um, there was um I
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think her name is Ruth Beich. She has like a like about three Rs, like little booklets that like it it broke down
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explanationwise of how the stages of reading work. Like it clicked with me in a way that I had never gotten even as an
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elementary education teacher. Like I when I was in the classroom, I had kids that were like putting an extra ed on
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the word looked did, stopped. And I'm like, I don't know how to make them stop
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doing that. why are they doing the move on in the next uh lesson in the book, you know, and so um trying to be able to
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remediate and catch them from the very beginning of how do you start uh teaching them how to read was kind of a
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new part for me. So, I found this 100 easy lessons to teach your child to read. And um it was I know we spent
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easily 400 days in it crying and pulling our hair out and melting down and saying
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never mind, we're going to take a break and tomorrow we'll start again. Um it
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was easy because it was scripted, but it was not easy. And especially uh since my
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daughter actually ended up having like sort of a um dyslexia visual >> right
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>> perception kind of learning issue. You know they I like the idea that it taught
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us to this shape says you don't say you don't need to know the name of this
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letter is M in order to read it. But months down the road, she still one day could read it, one day couldn't read it.
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And I didn't know that I could change things up. I was always looking for what
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else can I like supplement in here? I understood like Ruth Bick's like steps
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and I'm like, okay, but where do I fit in to where we're still practicing with
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decoding and blending and um we're stuck in this phase, so what more resources
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can I supplement with this? and you know then come back to this book and >> right
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>> try to multiply. >> Right. Well, I'm I'm curious cuz like I
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also grew up in a house with dyslexic people and so like learning like P's and
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B's get flipped and you know and and like uh D's and Q or uh I don't know we
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would write it on our hand. We would sharpie on our hand what it was and it would flip and you could do all the
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different things and there was all these tricks that we ended up learning. And for me, I was not dyslexic. So reading I
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also I went to grade school until I was in second grade. So I was already pretty
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well established in my reading um by the time we were homeschooling. But but my sister was not. And so my mom had to
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kind of there was a there was a lot of this kind of like trial and error like what you're describing of like kind of
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coming at it and there you know there'd be tears and be frustrated and be like
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okay we're going to stop for today. We'll come back. We'll try it again
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tomorrow and we'll try maybe a little bit of a different approach. So what what was there anything at that time
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where you were starting to go okay something is like we need to maybe go get my child evaluated or we need to
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find a different curriculum and like how was that kind of decision because I think that's sometimes hard for parents
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to like acknowledge is like my kids's not getting it why am I a dumb teacher
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or is there actually something that needs to be taught differently >> so um I did know that the public school
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would do like learning disability screening tests and stuff so I went and got uh in and they did the screening
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tests. But they also they measure the way the schools measure they measure your um
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bas like IQ and then your academic performance and there has to be like a discrepancy for how much higher your
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acade your your academics has to be much lower than your actual IQ per you know achievement and and she came in opposite
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that she was outperforming um what so Yay, homeschooling that you're I'm like, "No, no, you don't
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understand. We're frustrated. We're >> right." And so, but I did find another program
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um at one of the homeschool, you know, expo kind of like vendor fair kind of things. And it was the NILD, National
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Institute of Learning Disabilities. And they took her scores and were able to look and say, well, this one has a a
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score of, you know, five and this category has a, you know, you know, 12. this is the discrepancy of where things
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are. And they do um they do physical therapy that crosses the midline. And so we we did we did that. And
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>> that's like a big part I think of like many people choose to homeschool their
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kids because their kid has like a learning disability or just learns differently, right? And so they're like,
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"Oh, well, I could do it better at home." but then they don't always take
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the time to actually like find the things that actually work for that student or get them tested or evaluated
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or anything like that. And that's a huge miss in my in my book. But that comes
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from the fact that in my family once the evaluations happen, once the diagnosis comes, like all those types of things,
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it opens up a whole new world in which it's like now I understand what's going
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on in my brain and I can implement new strategies to do that. And so that's kind of what I'm hearing you say. But
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the school was categorizing her and saying, you know, yay, that you can work with her one- on- one. And it wasn't
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offering any kind of support resources. And so, I think there's a lot of people
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that are still kind of in that boat that the school can't make enough accommodations for what else the child
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needs. You know, I say everybody's a part-time homeschooler then because there's 180 days of school and 365 days
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of learning. So, I find a lot of parents are now looking for some sort of supplemental resources to help, you
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know, fill in where where, you know, you're the one that's going to lay awake
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at night worrying, you know. >> Absolutely. >> If the lunch if they have lunch money
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and >> um you know, do they need a math tutor and stuff like that. >> No, it's it's I think a lot of people
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think like public school or private school, they view it as this like, well, I send my kid off and then that's it.
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That's like their learning experience. It's like, no, that's not really how it
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happens. Like, learning is, especially when you're young, it's like it's a 24/7
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event. Uh, or maybe not 24/7 because there's eight hours of sleep in there, hopefully. Um, but it is a long, it is
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16 hours of of learning a day. And so, yeah, mom and dad need to be involved in that, right? Parents need to be
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involved. Uh, kids need to be involved, teachers, mentors, all those types of things are involved in educating a kid.
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And so, um, yeah, very much to your point. It's like even though you send them to school, they're still going to
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need to learn stuff. You still got to be able to teach them when they're at home,
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>> right? It's a partnership and collaboration that >> 100%. >> We've lost sight of that.
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>> Yes. >> In this society, it's us versus them and who gets to control the kids and stuff.
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And so, >> yeah. I'm curious, did you homeschool all of your kids all the way through or
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did they end up going to public school? >> So, I I I homeschooled the older two all
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the way through. Um, and then the youngest one, um, she was having some other learning issues and, um, it was
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becoming like, um, like I just felt like I was wrestling a lion with her and and
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so something else was going on with her and we didn't have the tools. I wasn't
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finding the tools and resources that could help support whatever was going on with her. Um, and so we decided to put
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her back into public school and let sort of outsource the education and say, "Okay, you guys try to help figure out
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what's going on with her educationally. We're going to focus on being parents."
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And um kind of because homeschooling has a way of kind of magnifying all of your
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parenting woes and everything gets tangled together and it's u it can become a combative. you know, the point
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was to have a good relationship with our kids and we were kind of getting in a counterproductive way where it was just
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this battle of wills with her all the time. And then and then it would take a lot of my time and energy to focus on
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her. And I'd tell the other two, go do some math. And they'd come back, you
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know, okay, then a week later, let's sit down and look at what you've done. And
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and they're like, I'm like, okay, tell me what you were doing here. And they're
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like, I don't know. I'm like, well, it's wrong. We have to do it all over again.
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And so like I wasn't doing good at any of it. And so it was like where do we
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where do we refocus our energy and try to, you know, do what's best for each child.
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>> Yeah, you brought up a good point in there. You said something along the
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lines of, and I've had a couple guests talk about this, is like the idea of like my parent, the line between my
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parent being my parent and them being my teacher gets really blurry when you homeschool. And because homeschooling,
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as many people know, is not just a like 9:30 in the morning to 4:00 in the afternoon event and then we're done.
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Like it tends to bleed over into many hours of the day and I was a kid who did school at 10:00 sometime 10 p.m. because
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I was just that's what my brain was firing. Um, but that line becomes very blurry and like
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what was that hard for? Like you you talked about needing to send your daughter off back to school because it
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was like okay that we need to kind of just be parents. We need to take the teacher hat off a little bit. And so I'm
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wondering like even now as your kids are are older, have you found that like being able to
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now just like be a parent like how has that transition or what are your thoughts on that? like parents also
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wearing the teacher hat and the lines getting blurry. Like do you have any thoughts around that experience and kind
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of navigating that? >> Well, like I said, you know, homeschooling has a way of taking all
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your parenting walls and kind of magnifying it. Like this whole weight of responsibility
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weighs very heavy. Um, and and the vast majority of people that I talk to, that's that's the way they you they're
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coming in with this weight of responsibility and they, you know, it's like if they never cooked before, like
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what do I what do I cook for dinner tonight? Well, you know, we have to navigate this thing and they but they
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don't want to screw it up, you know. I um and so trying to fix find what's the
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best curriculum and what's you know how do I do this and um but more and more
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people are coming in now that are like doing it you know temporarily which is how I w was looking at it from year to
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year you know that okay so we're going to put you in school for a little while
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maybe maybe think we figure out what's going on then if you want to come back
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and we you know find some other materials there's you know there's online schools that you can do at
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starting to at that point in time. I'm like, you know, because she still struggled in school. And so watching
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your child like struggle and like trying to figure out, you know, how how do we get you through this? Um it it's hard.
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And but but being able to just kind of separate some of that out and say, "Okay, we're on the same side trying to
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work through this problem with you instead of me and me being the one saying, this is what the work is. you
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have to do and her going, "No, that's stupid. I'm not doing that."
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>> Right. >> Something that I realized is like even the times that I was really combative
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with my mom or really like, you know, exactly what you're describing of like
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feeling like she wasn't on my team because she's pushing this curriculum
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that I'm not understanding and she's not it's not clicking to her. You know, now
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I can look back on a lot of that type of stuff and be like, "No, my mom was on my
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team. She was also struggling. she was also trying to like figure this out, you know, and and the frustration from her
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perspective where in the moment it doesn't feel that way. And so I'm wondering because now you're a little
00:22:00
bit removed from being a homeschool parent. And so, uh, you know, how how do you view like
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your homeschool experience? And then what has happened in your relationship with your kids as far as like, you know,
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do you guys ever talk about it? Do you guys ever like do they come to you and be like, "Hey, mom, like you screwed up
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here, but like we need to talk about it." Um, does anything like that happen?
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>> Um, yeah. And my son has said things I he's he's very funny, very um that the
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theatrical part of all those things um that growing up is part of his personality. I I always kind of thought
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he might be a a stand-up comedian because he's so funny. But um but I you know I said you know is there anything
00:22:47
that I should have done differently that you know that you you know he said well
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I didn't know what an assembly was. So I don't know that's all that's all
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the feedback he ever really gave me was he went to some comedy show and they were talking about class assemblies and
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he didn't know what that was. He had to have a friend explain it to him. But but
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I was like, well, we went to church. That's sort of assembly. >> It's just a gathering of people. That's
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all it is. Like, >> yeah. >> And we joke about those kind of things a
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lot. I think as homeschool parents, too. You know, my kids, homeschooled kids when, you know, they'll go to events and
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there somebody will, you know, the community facilitator will say, "Line up." And they they don't know how to
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line themselves up. It's like, "We do know how to get in a line. we've been to
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Disney before, you know, or the grocery store like, but line ourselves up is a different like skill that we don't know.
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Um, but it's not like necessary for the rest of our lives either. So we we like
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to like joke about those kinds of things and there are thing you know but but there are things that you know as a
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parent I can honestly look at and say I I wish I'd have done things differently
00:24:03
but it it it's not necessarily about the educational choices although like knowing that I could have switched
00:24:10
materials and changed things up that you know we we go down a path and go okay that maybe we shouldn't have pushed
00:24:17
through all hundred of those lessons maybe we should have given that up before, but the the you know before the
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internet was so you know the information age it was harder to find those kinds of
00:24:30
supplemental resources and switch things up. So um we've come a long way with
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that. So being able to switch those up is is better. But but but the thing that I still find very prevalent in the
00:24:43
homeschool community is a lot of the parenting advice that's very um authoritarian style parenting. And so
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while I could like look at education and kind of rethink how do how does learning
00:24:57
really work and you know how h how what what is going to get us the best academic outcome. I never really like
00:25:05
had enough tools and resources to really like rethink of how how am I parenting,
00:25:12
you know, like you said, your mother getting frustrated and you guys being at odds with each other, like
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understanding, you know, you're you're having a hard time. You're not giving me a hard time. Um, you know
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that it it it's not a it's it's not it's not, you know, that kind of a conflict.
00:25:32
It's like trying to say, "Okay, what are you struggling with? What can I help you
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with?" And trying to rethink parenting styles in that kind of way. Um, you know, the the the tools that I didn't
00:25:45
have at the time to self-regulate my own frustrations that I would take that out
00:25:50
on the kids and blow up. And um, you know, the the teaching at the time was that fear is an appropriate motivator to
00:25:59
control their behavior. And you know what I'm doing is triggering their fight, flight, freeze, fawn responses
00:26:06
instead of actually getting, you know, meaningful connection with this person I care about and I want in
00:26:15
my life. And so, um, but I've read some books recently that, you know, kind of
00:26:22
help offer some different perspectives. And, um, one is, uh, let me see if I can
00:26:29
find my notes. Well, while you do that, I I think I I agree with everything that you're saying
00:26:34
because like I think even in my when I when I had my mom on the show and we were talking, one of the things that she
00:26:40
she consistently says to me, but she said on the show was when I started homeschooling, I wasn't an emotionally
00:26:45
healthy person and that comes through in those early years. And so like for me, like even when I look at those first
00:26:52
couple years, I just remember them as not being the most fun. We did fun stuff, but there just it wasn't it
00:27:00
wasn't great. But my mom did work on herself a little bit. She worked on herself more after I was gone. Uh after
00:27:06
I had graduated, but like but she did get healthier as time went on. And so that that parenting style of what you're
00:27:14
talking about, it did shift a little bit while we were still at home. And so it is one of those things where it's like I
00:27:20
can look back and I can go, okay, yeah, but like she has made some changes and that's helpful. And even now, like she
00:27:26
continually, like you were saying, like thinks about, "Oh, I should have done
00:27:30
this differently. I could have done this differently." And I I keep telling her,
00:27:32
I'm like, "Mom, at the time you did what you thought was best and what you knew
00:27:36
how to do, and that's okay. >> When we know better, we do better."
00:27:39
>> And so, but but I see a lot of the parenting advice is still being recycled
00:27:47
in the homeschool community. That same kind of authoritative. And I found a book recently, The Myth of Good
00:27:52
Christian Parenting, How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families, Breaking Cycles of Religious
00:28:00
Trauma and Corporal Punishment. I definitely, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't spank my kids. I
00:28:05
wouldn't be yelling at them and you know >> you know punishing them in that same
00:28:10
kind of way and looking at it in a in a different kind of um framework of you know we're we're trying to be st
00:28:19
good stewards of these little human people that have been you know entrusted to us. Um and then another book that I
00:28:27
found that was very helpful too was good inside becoming the parent you want to be. It's a practical guide to resilient
00:28:34
parenting and prioritizing connection over correction. Um, and it it was it was also very helpful for me because I
00:28:42
lack some of those things with my parent, you know, trying to express those things to my parent. So, it was a
00:28:48
I not wanting to write try to figure out ways to offer, you know, those meaningful connections to my kids, but
00:28:55
yet also kind of reparing myself because it it's just not going to happen. The
00:29:02
beautiful thing about watching parents go through some of these things and make some of these changes, read these books,
00:29:07
grow as people, is like one, it also demonstrates to to my generation that it's like it's never too
00:29:15
late to grow. It's never too late to learn new things. It's never too late to
00:29:18
evolve and change. Like that is that is okay. It's a green light to do those
00:29:22
things. And like I I'm a firm believer that like my dad is a better version of
00:29:28
his dad and I want to be a better version of my dad. And that just continually takes like growing and
00:29:33
evolving as a human being. And so I never want to, you know, I don't want to
00:29:37
repeat the mistakes my dad made. Um maybe I will, but like I you know, but I can I can learn from those things, but I
00:29:43
can also make new ones. I get to make new ones. Yeah. >> But I can also amplify the good things
00:29:48
that he did, right? And I can take those lessons and say I'm gonna I'm gonna
00:29:52
carry those forward. And so so I applaud you for that. And that's one of the
00:29:55
reasons I wanted to have you on the show and talk was because, you know, I think
00:29:59
right now there's a lot of discussions happening from homeschool alumni. A lot
00:30:04
of us are starting to speak up and talk about things. Um, you and I both are fans of the Coalition for Responsible
00:30:10
Home Education. They did a talk as of recording this, we did a talk earlier this week with Stefan uh Merrill Block
00:30:16
who wrote homeschooled. And so a lot of these things are and that book has been very popular. Um and so but a lot of
00:30:23
these conversations from home school alumni are starting to come to the surface of like how our experiences were
00:30:27
because now we have like four generations of homeschool alumni um starting to speak up. And so I'm
00:30:34
interested because one of the things that I continually hear is that like is is homeschooled parents getting kind of
00:30:42
offended when we kind of share some of our criticisms, right, of like my mom could have done this better or this
00:30:48
curriculum really sucked or you know and they take it as a personal attack on themselves. And so I'm interested like
00:30:55
from your perspective how you've handled that because you don't seem to really
00:30:59
take the criticism as like a personal attack. um you you take it more as like a okay yeah so how do we shape that
00:31:06
going forward so let's talk a little bit about that >> the vast majority of the parents that I
00:31:11
talk to their intent is to do what's best for their kids and so but understanding our intentions don't
00:31:18
always play out the way that we had hoped the impact is different and so understanding
00:31:25
and listening to alumni of how what worked what didn't work Like we could learn from the mistakes of others, but I
00:31:34
mean I I can we we we should be willing to learn from our own mistakes too. But but sitting where I am, I I can't go
00:31:41
back and and change what I did. But I can say if I'd have known this that my
00:31:47
younger self would have wanted to know this. So who out there is like my younger self that you can we we can go
00:31:54
this direction and change the direction of things. And so, um, I I think it's
00:32:00
really important to listen to everybody's story. Um, we have, uh, another book that I I like to drop
00:32:08
recommendations about books is, um, uh, stories behind stances. It's about creating empathy from hearing the other
00:32:16
perspective. And it's written by Chris Singleton, whose mother was killed in
00:32:20
the Emanuel Church shooting. And um and so he he starts the first, you know, he talks about how we're all politically
00:32:28
divided and we're just shouting past each other that if we start from instead
00:32:33
of this is the conclusion of where you stand on this issue, what if we start from your story of how did you get to
00:32:40
this place and what you think this solution would resolve? We're probably a lot more closer than we really think we
00:32:49
are. And his story, his first story is about what he thinks about guns. You know, he thinks guns should have
00:32:55
regulations and be, you know, and and and how how that impacted his life matters and how he sees it. But his best
00:33:04
friend has grew up with hunting and um memories of hunting with his grandparents and his uncles and his it's
00:33:12
all family bonding stuff. And so where he's coming from in in his perspective
00:33:18
on guns is very different. And so, but being able to like sit down and say, "I
00:33:22
understand where you're coming from. Here's where I'm coming from. What could
00:33:26
we, you know, create, you know, a shared value out of this going forward as, you
00:33:35
know, reasonable solutions to this?" I think that that same kind of conversation needs to happen on all
00:33:41
sides of education. People that are adamantly, you know, for public education. I mean, my husband's in
00:33:47
public education. So, yes, I think that public education should have, you know, viable resources and financial support
00:33:56
to and funding to to make it, you know, a successful experience. But I also support homeschool rights and parents
00:34:04
choices when the school doesn't work and they're falling out of through the
00:34:08
cracks in the system. Like there there's there's just all sides of those
00:34:13
conversations. and then bringing to the homeschool debate, you know, parents wanting to do what's best for their kids
00:34:19
and looking for those kinds of resources and then kids that have graduated from it saying, "But it would have been
00:34:27
better had I had this and this and this as a res like we all want resources and opportunities for the doors to open at
00:34:34
the end of this." So, you know, it's a it understanding where people are coming
00:34:39
from and listening to that without it being a personal attack because of they came up with a different solution to the
00:34:49
problem than than I did. Like, it's not it's not about that. I don't need to
00:34:54
center myself in those conversations. >> Yeah. No, I I I 100% agree. think
00:35:00
being able to hear like like I view my homeschool experience as relatively positive. I don't like there's not of
00:35:08
course there's things I would do differently and I would ask my mom to do differently but a lot of it like there
00:35:12
was not abuse, there was not neglect in a lot of ways. And so it's one of those
00:35:18
things that I sit in a very kind of weird space because like for a long time I was like
00:35:24
I'm very pro homeschool. Like I don't see a problem with it. Why do people
00:35:27
take issue with this or whatever? and and doing the show and starting to hear those stories like you're talking about
00:35:31
and try to come at it from a perspective of like I'm just going to hear you out, you
00:35:36
know, and I want to I want to listen and how did you get to your conclusion of your anti-homes school or you're so pro
00:35:41
homeschool um kind of a thing. Um, it's helped me a lot to kind of view everything from like a wider angle, I
00:35:50
think, where it's like, okay, yeah, but now to your point, let's work together
00:35:55
to create common sense things that it's like these can be implemented. They don't infringe on your rights. You know,
00:36:01
they also create safer environments for those who who were neglected, who were abused, those types of things. And so,
00:36:07
yeah, I think again to your point, great opportunity right now to just start hearing stories and coming at it more
00:36:14
from a perspective of like let's listen to each other uh before we jump to all
00:36:18
of the conclusions. So, >> and I don't know if there's something about um you know,
00:36:25
being American, you know, that we are so fiercely independent and don't tell me
00:36:29
what to do. Don't tread on me. Or maybe there's more of neurode divergence,
00:36:35
you know, the that is that personal uh demand avoidance, persistent demand avoidance that, you know, don't tell me
00:36:44
what to do. You know, that that I it somehow triggers in these parent conversations that I have this
00:36:50
authority. Don't, you know, I don't want anybody coming into this space. There
00:36:55
was a recent interview that I was listening to uh Rachel Denhollander um and she's also a homeschool grad and
00:37:02
so I followed her for a while too and listened to what she had to say and her her abuse story is a very caring parent
00:37:10
who was like you know right there and still abuse happened to her and she didn't have the words and the
00:37:15
terminology to say what was actually happening to her and it triggered the whole Larry Nasser um you know thing but
00:37:24
But now looking at her homeschool experience and her experience as a parent saying I don't have you know
00:37:31
absolute authority as a parent there are other spheres of authority that I answer
00:37:37
to God the government other in my society you know my children like there she's like raising these circles of you
00:37:48
know accountability that we have that limit you know and and you have to be willing to look at your parenting and
00:37:55
say I did the best I could but it was the best I knew at the time and it it it was my human limitations it was probably
00:38:03
not the best you know that I could do you know that had I done that differently and so um I don't know it
00:38:10
just feels like we are um getting triggered unnecessarily um as if the this bloated government is
00:38:19
coming to take away our kids and and it triggers that sort of like defense defense mechanism in us that that I
00:38:26
don't that I don't think that's really the point of a lot of these conversations. I know, you know, CR
00:38:32
likes, you know, says there should be some legislative measures, but honestly, a lot of the a lot of what they do,
00:38:38
that's what we're already doing in South Carolina. I don't feel like it's overly
00:38:42
invasive recommendations. And so I don't hear it in the same kind of way that someone
00:38:50
they that that you know that we're going to lose our kids or whatever. It's more
00:38:55
about am I am I an approachable and askable parent? And like Rachel's little
00:39:01
podcast uh interview that she did, she was talking about giving your kids the agency to come and like appeal to your
00:39:10
parental decisions that there are sometimes choices that you have to make um that your kids don't understand. you
00:39:16
know, years ago, um we found out that my my neighbor um had uh a boyfriend that was being
00:39:28
removed from the home that had been um registered as a sex sex offender, but when you look up the chart, he that's
00:39:36
not where he was living. That's not where it says he was living. And so like
00:39:40
we had to make rules and policies about the the connect contact that they had with our kids and the kids didn't
00:39:48
understand that at the time. And so you know there are decisions that you have to make sometimes that are in your
00:39:55
child's best interest that they don't really understand but yet you know give
00:40:01
them that appeal to say you know kind of like what Stephan was talking about. I want to go back to school.
00:40:06
>> Exactly. Yeah. Stefan's story is is great cuz yeah, he basically had to go
00:40:10
beg his mom practically to go back to high school and you know and appeal to her in a lot of ways and I think that
00:40:18
that is like something that a lot of us we want that ability or we wanted that ability sometimes to feel like hey if I
00:40:28
go ask my parent about this thing I'm really struggling in this subject. I really feel like this would be better
00:40:33
for me. um this isn't working, that I was going to be heard. And some parents
00:40:37
do a better job of doing that than others of listening to that information and and taking it in and making those
00:40:42
changes. Um and so, you know, and then to your point, there will always be decisions that parents have to make that
00:40:49
is not going to make sense in the moment, but it will make sense down the line. And so, you know, understanding,
00:40:55
but I think that's where the balance of it comes in of like I as a kid, if you
00:40:59
do feel like I have been heard and I have been understood and we've made changes, then when your parent does come
00:41:05
down to saying I'm drawing a line in the sand here, we're not doing this. I think
00:41:10
sometimes it becomes easier as opposed to if my parent is exclusively always saying this is the way it is. This is
00:41:16
how it is going to be. Um, again going back to that authoritarian kind of aspect, um, it it becomes harder, right?
00:41:23
And that's when I think we see a lot more push back from kids of being like,
00:41:27
you know, they get out of the house and then they're like they go do everything
00:41:30
bad because they were never allowed to do anything bad or they were never allowed to make mistakes or whatever. Um
00:41:35
>> and also you know listening to the pioneers stories you know the ones who
00:41:40
were threatened that they were going to go to jail that they were going to lose their kids you know the understanding
00:41:47
why they have such strong perspectives on some of these things because of the experience that they came from trying to
00:41:56
do what's best for their kids and yet being threatened that they could lose their kids. So,
00:42:00
>> you know, understanding all of those, you know, perspectives and where they're
00:42:05
coming from, I think >> is is just a helpful >> Yes. >> part of it that we're not none of us are
00:42:12
really like out there trying to say, you know, I want to give the government more
00:42:16
control over my life. >> Yeah. Most people know. >> I would like the government to do all
00:42:22
these things for me. No, nobody wants that. We're Americans. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I think it comes
00:42:27
down a lot of times to the fact that it's like uh with CRG specifically, it's
00:42:33
it's one of those things where I'm like, but certain things are common sense that
00:42:36
we should be implementing. And when you look at something I didn't realize for a
00:42:42
very long time was that, you know, there's 50 states. Each state has control over its education system and
00:42:48
each state has all of these different rules around how homeschooling is implemented and the checks and balances
00:42:53
that come with that. I grew up in a state where literally my parents had one week they had to file a piece of paper
00:42:58
that said we are choosing a homeschool our kid. That was it. They didn't have
00:43:01
to submit test scores. We didn't have to go in for evaluations, nothing. And you
00:43:07
know, and then in other states there's a little bit more requirements. There's a
00:43:10
little bit more um there standardized testing and those types of things. a lot of states there's not those safeguards
00:43:17
of like if there is a sexual predator or sexual criminal in the house that like they can't homeschool their kid but that
00:43:25
doesn't really seem to for a lot of people that's pretty common sense that
00:43:28
you wouldn't want to keep kids around a sexual predator. Um and so things like
00:43:34
that it's like there's some common sense things in there that it's just it it is
00:43:39
uh it's worth exploring. And it's worth talking about and seeing where we can
00:43:44
land on things to give. Again, we're talking about like resources. I know as
00:43:47
a kid that doing I did do some standardized testing. That was my mom elected to do that mostly to help her
00:43:53
make sure we were in the right position grade-wise because her goal was always get to college. You know, if they want
00:44:00
to go to college, they're able to get to college. Um type of thing. And so it
00:44:03
helped her determine we were at the right spaces. Um, and so it it's one of those things, but as a kid it was so
00:44:10
helpful because I actually felt like, oh, I'm smart because I had this like tangible thing that was like not just my
00:44:17
parents always grading my stuff and letting me get A's or letting me rework things and get good grades. It was like,
00:44:23
no, I got one opportunity to go in and take a test and I know that I'm actually
00:44:27
like a decently smart human being or at least I'm average or, you know, whatever. it helps give you a sense of
00:44:32
um of agency over yourself to some degree. And so that that's why I advocate for that because I just know
00:44:40
that for me personally that would have been a huge benefit of just knowing that it's like okay like I'm actually like
00:44:46
I'm smart, you know, I'm smart enough um uh as smart as public school kids for
00:44:51
sure. And so, um, anyway, >> part yeah, part of what we do in South Carolina with our recordkeeping is
00:44:58
keeping some samples of their work and and I talk a lot about why you want to do, okay, yeah, the law says do this
00:45:04
over here, but why why do it in a purposeful way mean so that the records are meaningful to you and part of the is
00:45:12
to be able to show your child, you know, this is this is where you were struggling because we all naturally the
00:45:18
way we think, we hyperfocus on what's not working. And so it's natural for our
00:45:22
kids to do that too, you know, to be able to show them, okay, you're struggling over here in this area, but
00:45:28
look where you're working in this area. Like you we everybody has different kinds of smarts, too. And so, um, that's
00:45:35
part of the reason why we put my daughter into gymnastics because she was struggling with that reading and the
00:45:41
academics. And so having her to have that area where she was like excelling like it was a very valuable part for her
00:45:49
too. but also being able to show, okay, so you're struggling, but look, you are
00:45:53
making progress. Look, we're making pro and and also to reassure myself of that,
00:45:57
too, that I wasn't screwing it up. But, but yeah, that's a lot of those kinds of
00:46:02
things. And testing can be one measure to say you're making progress. You know,
00:46:08
you're it's okay. We're getting we're go this is not, you know, a dead end road.
00:46:13
We the doors of opportunity will open for you at the end. I think another thing that CR does that aside from the
00:46:20
legislation um they have created sort of like a tutorial for training um DSS agents. So, if you get reported for DSS,
00:46:31
um, whatever they call it in the different state social services, somebody comes and says they're not in
00:46:36
school, um, they don't necessarily know what homeschool should look like. And
00:46:42
so, they've created sort of a intentional, you know, this is what intentional parenting and education
00:46:49
looks like guide, which I think is super helpful because we don't have anybody
00:46:54
out there advocating for that. And so, um, them jumping into that and saying, "This is what it should look like is is
00:47:04
very important." And they're getting invited to conversations that I would
00:47:09
never have been invited to talk to. So, it's kind of it's kind of, you know,
00:47:14
impressive to me to watch what they're able to conversations that they're able
00:47:19
to um initiate in places. Very helpful for us all. It's making it better for us all that way.
00:47:29
>> Well, one of the great things that they do is that it's a consistent question is
00:47:32
being asked of what would have been helpful and let's and then let's build
00:47:37
the resources around that. And so there's resources not only for current homeschool families, for those DSS
00:47:44
agents like you're saying, but also like for homeschool alumni. And so, you know,
00:47:48
for things of like if you do come from a home where there was educational neglect
00:47:53
or abuse. Okay. So, how do you get an education now as a full-fledged adult? Well, you know, you've got big gaps, but
00:48:00
like maybe you're actually a smart person. You just you didn't you weren't
00:48:04
afforded education. Okay, here's how you can get access to that. You know, in the
00:48:09
same way, abuse, neglect, those types of things, like, you know, here's how to
00:48:14
get access to therapy and and to help those types of things. So, they build resources around all these different
00:48:18
things. And it always stems from that question of like what resources would be helpful? Okay, now let's build those.
00:48:25
And so I think that's a really powerful um place to be in because we're always
00:48:30
looking for resources and that's, you know, and and so it's a good um it's a
00:48:35
good business to be in to some degree. Um and it's it's a great service to
00:48:40
offer to the community. So I do want to pivot just a little bit to what you're
00:48:44
doing now because you're still even though you're not no longer homeschooling your kids, you are still
00:48:49
involved in the homeschool community in South Carolina. And so talk me through a
00:48:53
little bit about what you're doing, what you offer, and I know you've also got an
00:48:56
event coming up um here in June. So what like let's just go through it. What how
00:49:01
are you still involved in the homeschool community? >> Well, I run an accountability
00:49:06
association South Carolina. They have um you know some specific um rules of what your homeschool is
00:49:16
supposed to include and some recordkeeping you're supposed to do as a parent. and they want someone to verify
00:49:21
that you're doing those basic things. And so, um, that's, you know, that's
00:49:26
what I do, um, is kind of, um, run this accountability association that, you know, ver verifies that people are doing
00:49:33
the minimums requirements of the recordkeeping. But I spent a lot of time talking about why they want to do it.
00:49:39
Like, don't just do it, check off boxes, and say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Um, you
00:49:43
know, I don't need you to create a bunch of like stuff to prove to me that you're
00:49:47
making progress. I'm really more trying to come alongside them to say, "Do you
00:49:52
feel like you're being successful? Where do you feel like you're struggling?
00:49:55
Let's have real conversations about that and try to find you some resources to
00:50:00
help um where where things aren't going well." And so being having those kind of
00:50:06
open, honest conversations just with a select group of people who chose me as their accountability. We I also while I
00:50:14
was doing that um we had a legislation that came along to kind of eliminate all of our associations. They said you know
00:50:21
what this they they there was supposedly I guess a case where a child had been in
00:50:26
DSS and died um because of neglect or abuse or something. Nobody could ever really find
00:50:34
the actual story though and really find out whi where they were register you know if they were reg if you know were
00:50:41
they just off the grid like how does that work um and so um it kind of burst my bubble though because I'd been kind
00:50:49
of like in this la land that was like yeah homeschooling's legal everything's
00:50:52
fine like I didn't realize that there were there were um people that were out
00:50:57
there saying no no no homeschooling is not a thing you shouldn't do this and
00:51:00
and waiting for abuse and neglect to be the reason that we're going to resolve
00:51:06
this problem. Sort of a reactive kind of thing. And so, you know, it it it woke it woke the poked the bear and woke the
00:51:13
giant for a while and and and it caused a lot of outrage. But as as I was looking at that, I'm like, but we could
00:51:23
be more proactive about this and more intentional about showcasing what homeschooling is supposed to look like.
00:51:30
We could also be more proactive in creating preventive factors, you know, protective factors in our homeschool
00:51:38
community. Do we actually know what abuse and neglect looks like? Do our neighbors know what abuse and neglect
00:51:45
looks like before they go and report us to DSS? You know, like trying to just be
00:51:50
like sort of that conversation of preventive resources. And so I found several things in South Carolina and you
00:52:00
know around and that's where I first discovered the coalition as well um and
00:52:05
started following a lot of these resources and trying to like try to create a conversation here that is a
00:52:13
resource hub no matter which association you choose you know getting accurate information
00:52:19
and you know it the more the more uh more social media goes. It's so much misinformation and
00:52:28
disinformation out there. So, it's like right >> screaming into the void sometimes like
00:52:33
no this is how >> Yeah, for sure. So, you have in addition to the bookkeeping stuff, you also have
00:52:40
a blog, right, where you provide resources for people. And so, let's shut that out really fast. What uh what is
00:52:46
that called? >> It's called the South Carolina Homeschooling Connection. Um
00:52:51
homeschooling uh sc.org. or I think is the blog the URL. Um >> I'll make sure it's linked down below as
00:52:59
well. So, >> um but yeah, it's a it's a it's a resource hub. I uh have selfdeclared
00:53:07
that I am the self-appointed busy body of homeschooling in South Carolina and I collect resources and information that
00:53:14
you know inspire excellence and empower parents to do a good job in their um child's education whether they come in
00:53:24
um for a little bit or a long time because a lot of people are coming for just a period of time now. So there it's
00:53:29
like a temporary stepping stone to get them through this hard period of time and then they're going to put them into
00:53:35
another school. There's so many, you know, choices out there outside the traditional brick andmortar classrooms
00:53:42
now that that they have to figure out which one fits. >> Exactly. Yeah. There's like the options
00:53:49
are endless. Um, and I recently chatted with somebody about what is the umbrella, what fits under the umbrella
00:53:55
of homeschooling because I'm like there's now all these options that are
00:53:58
like flexible school. Um, and so yeah, so what really is >> right that personalized kind of
00:54:05
>> Yeah. >> Cap cafeteria style. I'll take a little of this. We'll do some dual enrollments.
00:54:10
We'll do an online class. We'll do, you know, some real life learning projectbased stuff and create our own.
00:54:18
You kind of thing. And so, >> right. Exactly. >> Um, so one of the resources that I have
00:54:23
found along the way is, um, we have here in South Carolina the Children's Trust.
00:54:28
They're kind of a division of prevent abuse, child abuse America, and they have resources that talk about building
00:54:34
protective factors of pres preventing abuse before it escalates. Like nobody starts out one day and says, "I'm going
00:54:40
to abuse my child today." like it escalates from those kind of like frustrations and you know it could be
00:54:47
external pressures of finances and you just like disregulate and take it out on your kids. And so kind of understanding
00:54:56
some of those, you know, factors that contribute to um how abuse happens and understanding it in a way um you know,
00:55:04
we always talk about, you know, but there's laws to catch abuse and so we don't need to add them to the homeschool
00:55:10
thing, but you know that we also have drunk driving laws, you know, but if you saw a friend getting in the car about to
00:55:21
drive drunk, you'd take the keys away from them And so equipping us with those
00:55:26
kind of tools to like really recognize a family that's in crisis when things are
00:55:31
escalating, how do you have the tools and the equipment to step in and say, "No, no, here's what we could do better,
00:55:37
how we could do things differently um and and and kind of prevent that." There's a they have this little story on
00:55:45
their website with the uh ch prevent child abuse the children's trust that there's a parable about a villager who
00:55:53
finds a baby floating in the river. The villager jumps in and saves the baby. The next day the villager finds two more
00:55:58
babies in the river and he brings the babies to the village and finds families to care for these other new babies.
00:56:05
While the villages are figuring out how to provide love and food and shelter for
00:56:09
three new babies, they find more babies in the river. And so, while they're struggling to cope with these new
00:56:16
responsibilities, somebody in the village decides they're going to hike upstream and determine how to get to the
00:56:22
source of the problem. And so, their attitude is prevention is the key. If we can stop these things from escalating
00:56:31
um that we go upstream, we can change the story. upstream is really where we say solve problems by helping families
00:56:37
before the crisis of abuse and neglect occurs. And so that's part of the conversation that I like to bring in
00:56:45
here is that we can bring in lasting positive change for our, you know, children. And that's part of what I do
00:56:52
with the blog is try to talk about those, you know, protective factors kind of interwoven in
00:57:00
there as well. um that we're trying to do what's best for our kids, but like
00:57:05
like we've talked about before like you know one of the things is like trying to
00:57:10
expect more than what they're truly capable of doing. You know that we we're
00:57:15
frustrated. Why can't you get this? And like you know the curriculum says you're
00:57:20
supposed to have learned this skill by now. Why can't you get it? Get it if I
00:57:25
yell it at you. I can just scream it into your your mind and then it'll come
00:57:29
to you, you know. And so like trying to understand real like age appropriate milestones of things and then sort of
00:57:38
sort of the other side of it expecting too much of our kids that here you can handle all of this, you can you know do
00:57:45
all this on your own and learn this and um kind of parentifying our kids in the opposite direction. But all of those
00:57:52
things fit into this framework about understanding actual, you know, protective factors. And so that nuance
00:58:03
of the conversation, like it doesn't necessarily have to I don't pretend like
00:58:07
I have any um sway in legislation preventing it or instigating it or anything. Um you know, my sway is more
00:58:18
on a one-on-one. How do we help each other and parent along the way and pull each other along and provide those kinds
00:58:25
of resources? So, >> yeah. No, and I think that's so important because I mean, you really
00:58:31
think about it and it's like how does lasting change happen? Well, it happens
00:58:35
in those one-on-one conversation. It happens in the small groups that then it grows and it, you know, it continues on
00:58:41
and it spreads, right? It's a ripple effect. Um, and so I think that that's
00:58:46
like so so important. And I appreciate what your blog is doing because I think we need more of these like types of hubs
00:58:52
where it's like I can come get solid information. I can get not only resources, but like yeah, access to
00:58:59
things that I hadn't even thought about like you were talking about with some of
00:59:03
like the abuse and neglect and recognizing those things. It's like, yeah, we have laws for that, but that's
00:59:06
like outside of that's not what we're talking about. This is home school
00:59:09
stuff. It's like, yeah, but those do fit in the conversation to some some aspect,
00:59:14
right? And so those are important things to have uh in there as well. Anything else on the blog that you want to touch
00:59:20
on? >> Yes, that we want to learn. We want to learn to recognize um abuse,
00:59:27
recognize the signs of abuse. Um we talk about um ACE factors. There's like a little 10 question quiz to uh
00:59:36
kind of identify some adverse childhood experiences and you know the traum the lasting trauma and the impacts of those
00:59:44
things on your long-term health even physical health that can affect things like diabetes and you know uh heart
00:59:51
health and stuff like that too. Um but but there's another side to it that I
00:59:56
just recently found that is positive childhood experiences that um the parent caregiver shows unconditional love.
01:00:04
Spending time with a best friend, volunteering and helping others, being active in a social group, having a
01:00:11
mentor outside the family, you know, having safe adults that you can go to besides just your parents. Even if your
01:00:19
parents are already sick, you've got a you've got more beyond that that is, you
01:00:24
know, a valuable. Living in a clean and safe home with enough food, having opportunities to learn, having a hobby,
01:00:31
being active and playing sports, having routines that are, you know, fair, you know, fair rules in the home. So,
01:00:40
those are some of those same kind of conversations that I feel like, you know, we're all trying to have. We want
01:00:47
we want our kids to come out of this childhood in a positive way and give them resilience and try to try try try
01:00:57
to mitigate as much of our own trauma that we carried into parenting uh you know and not pass it on to them. And so,
01:01:06
um, I always, you know, want to talk about how do we implement some of those kind of trainings into our homeschool
01:01:12
groups and, you know, can we do book clubs and circles with co-ops and um, set policies in our in our manuals that,
01:01:20
you know, this is how we handle kids and this is how we handle, you know, disagreements and they can get along.
01:01:27
they don't walk away from here feeling bullied and um you know and building those kind of protective factors so that
01:01:35
um we can you know do better. >> 100%. Yeah. No, I think and something that you mentioned in there too that
01:01:43
like it is so important is like a lot of times homeschool homeschooling regardless of how you do it is to some
01:01:52
degree an isolating experience. However, more and more you can get with co-ops, you can get with other parents, you can
01:02:00
get with, you know, other homesooled families, even non-homesooled families, but you create some of those
01:02:04
environments like you're talking about where you you you give your child the
01:02:09
access to other kids, you give mom and dad access to other parents, right? You get, you know, and and those are very
01:02:15
important things. We are not designed to live our lives inside of like a isolated
01:02:20
bubble. um we need other humans uh to do it. And so doing that and then also like
01:02:26
you were saying be able to implement some of those healthy uh routines, exchanges, the ability to look for those
01:02:33
abuses, right? That understanding of like building those safe environments that help happens in those small groups
01:02:40
and then it expands and grows and grows. And so again, I applaud you for what you're doing because that's like huge.
01:02:46
And I think so many parents when I was even a kid would have would have found so much value in something like that,
01:02:53
>> right? We didn't have those conversations then, right? >> But our entire culture is like pushing
01:02:58
against the the community. Like we're we're not we're the fiber of what makes
01:03:03
us community. We're all it's it's a cultural thing that we're talking about
01:03:07
in this time of what what does community look like? And so it's it's all the more
01:03:13
important for us to be trying to figure that out in the homeschool community too. How do we provide the kind of
01:03:18
resources that help us thrive? So >> yeah. >> Yeah. One more thing that I do um you
01:03:25
know homeschool law just talks about how to be exempt from compulsory attendance.
01:03:29
So, one of the services that I uh provide because of my position, we get to go to the same workshops that the
01:03:36
public school guidance counselors get to go to and learn about sort of, you know,
01:03:41
transcripts, what what goes on the transcript, that kind of thing. And um kind of being able to translate that.
01:03:48
And years ago, you know, 5 10 years ago, the policies in my group, I didn't require us to do transcripts. The
01:03:55
parents made the transcripts and away they go. But but more and more and people that weren't necessarily going to
01:04:02
college didn't need a trans they didn't create a transcript. But now 5 10 years
01:04:06
down the road they're like, "Oh, I do want to go to college. Now I need a
01:04:09
transcript." And so we're trying to like backtrack and recreate, you know, that
01:04:14
course of study, that academic resume that will open the doors of opportunity for you. Um and and so I do I do help
01:04:23
people create those. Uh, a lot of times it's the parent that's there that's
01:04:27
helping. Sometimes it's just the grad. Uh, the parent is no longer around or
01:04:31
able to assist and so we can help kind of create that. I know the there's other
01:04:36
tools out there to kind of try to figure out yourself, but I do offer that service as well. But another thing that
01:04:43
that I'm finding is that institutions don't know what to do with those parent
01:04:47
transcripts. And so more and more they're looking for somebody else to validate and verify did is this is this
01:04:55
real you know is this car's study of accurate? Um I get calls from um job um
01:05:02
employment verifications. Did you really does this person really graduate? um had
01:05:08
uh state and federal, you know, employment where the some guy with a badge shows up and says, "This is who I
01:05:15
am and this is why I'm allowed to, you know, verify this." And I'm like,
01:05:19
"Here's my ID. Here's" and sign off that they're that they are, you know, allowed
01:05:25
to get a job. And the colleges are going more towards wanting some sort of, you know, transcript that shows that, too.
01:05:34
when they want it to come from somebody else, not just, you know, from the parent anymore. So, so that is a service
01:05:40
that I also do provide um whether you live in South Carolina or not. My sister lives in Georgia and I created
01:05:46
transcripts for her kids. Um and so, um you know, trying to help offer that as a
01:05:52
service if you didn't get a transcript or suddenly decide you need one. Um I'm
01:05:58
I do offer that as a service to help out. >> Yeah. as someone who who went we hired a
01:06:04
third party to help me with college prep and that was like such a game changer because they did help with I believe the
01:06:11
formatting of the transcripts but then it helped me with like the college admission stuff and and things like that
01:06:16
but that transcript was very important because even though I was going to I was applying to a lot of schools that did
01:06:24
accept homeschool students there was still like their like we want to see XYZ you know there was those requirements
01:06:30
even back in this was 20134 when I was applying for colleges and stuff. So um you know and and so I'm sure yeah things
01:06:38
have changed I'm sure in the last last 10 years um since then but to know that
01:06:43
there are people out here who are helping people put together those transcripts because again even if you
01:06:48
don't go to college you might someday want to go to college or you might need
01:06:52
it for some kind of job down the line. And so knowing that it's like it's
01:06:56
there, you have it. It's just another step in that like independence that is
01:07:01
is so helpful. So >> it's a forever document. >> Yes. >> And so and like some sometimes the
01:07:07
parent had it somewhere, they don't know where it is now. It's a where did it get
01:07:12
filed? I don't know. Um or you know they have a copy of it but they need somebody
01:07:18
to mail you know send it officially. There's like um they have parchment navian those kind of um it instead of
01:07:26
fax machines now it delivers the official you know secure transmission of the documents. So yeah having having
01:07:35
somebody who has that kind of ability to say yep this is official here it comes.
01:07:40
Again, I applaud you for all the services that you provide for homeschool kids because I think kids, parents, like
01:07:47
they they need them, right? And especially coming from someone who you lived it, you went through it with your
01:07:52
own kids. And so, not like you and you've learned from those experiences, but now you know and you can help other
01:07:59
homeschool families like not only do better, but also make sure like all of paperwork is lined up, all of the re you
01:08:04
have the resources you need. Like that is a huge huge get. Um it is no small task. So, I applaud you. Thank you.
01:08:11
Thank you. Thank you for what you do. >> I try. >> Um, let's talk about if we're done with
01:08:16
the blog, let's talk about the event and what you guys are doing. >> So, I have a homeschool event. It's a
01:08:20
local um, u vendor fair. I kind of take some of the resources that I've collected on my blog and it's like a
01:08:30
real life manifestation. the blog come to life of wandering around and talking to some of the people
01:08:37
that are really you know great resources. A lot of local um co-ops and um you know opportunities that are here.
01:08:47
>> I think the the events like that are so helpful. I remember as a kid going to to
01:08:52
some and you know it's an opportunity learn stuff get access to curriculum you
01:08:58
know all of the all of the normal homeschool um you know things that we need and sometimes it's better to see it
01:09:04
in person than it is like to just look at it online. So, you know, being able to ask a vendor more questions about it
01:09:10
than you're going to get on a website can be extremely helpful, >> right? And fi find out if this co-op
01:09:16
feels like the right vibe and and meet the people that, you know, are running the program and those kind of things.
01:09:24
Um, but we also, you know, are intentional about creating more diverse resources. Um last year our um theme was
01:09:34
mirrors and windows like expanding your um bookshelf and your lived experience. Um you know collecting information that
01:09:45
reflects your own lived experience as a mirror but also um is a window into how other people live. that you know there's
01:09:54
there's a lot of different ways to show up in the world and um you know get get
01:10:00
sort of a glimpse of how those things happen. But this year we're kind of building on that theme and our it's um
01:10:08
connect expand and thrive. So um cultivating um a that kind of connections in the community. That's why
01:10:17
my blog's called the connection. we we we're stronger together if we're
01:10:22
connected with each other, respecting our differences and um but you know kind of being a collective together um where
01:10:30
we can make meaningful connections, broaden our bookshelves and thrive as a collective. So um we also are very
01:10:37
intentional about more secular inclusive resources. You don't have to leave your
01:10:42
faith at the door like a lot of those kind of like secular, you know, events are. Um, but you also
01:10:49
don't have to bring one, so it's all right. You know, we have Bob Jones Press
01:10:54
over here and >> Right. It's a It's a mix of Yeah. Oak Meadow over here. Yeah. There's a Yeah,
01:11:01
there's a good good mix and a vibe. And um you our Bob Jones um representative
01:11:07
that comes also is very good at um special needs um accommodations and she can take you through and kind of show
01:11:17
you some examples of how you can modify your curriculum and it works with any curriculum but she knows examples out of
01:11:24
what she you know has to provide. But yeah, so it's not just, oh, I don't want
01:11:29
I don't want that materials, but there's people that you can talk to that can
01:11:32
help you figure out, you know, how to how how to get what you need out of it. And so, but it's for every, you know, we
01:11:40
have stuff that's high school and beyond, college prep people and >> Exactly. Exactly. So, when when is this
01:11:47
event? Where is this event? And um and then uh where do we get tickets or how do we find out more information about
01:11:54
it? It's on It's on my the other website I have is uh Colola City Homeschoolers. Um
01:12:00
and it is um the Cola City Homeschool Expo and it is in Colombia. We call we call Colombia Cola for short. Cola City.
01:12:11
>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's a local vibe. Some people call it
01:12:15
Soda City sometimes, too. The cola. >> Yeah. >> Capitalizing on the cola. So um and so
01:12:22
yeah, Kola City Homeschool Expo, it's in Colombia. We have a Jal Shrine Center
01:12:28
that is bigger than a gym. They actually bring in their shrine circus there. So it's how big the the venue is. And then
01:12:35
we're also partnering with a kid market. So kids that are entrepreneurs can come
01:12:40
and sell their snacks and crafts and little goodies. So >> very cool. And when is it again? Oh,
01:12:50
June 27th. >> June 27th. All right. In Colia, South Carolina, uh, or Cola City, Soda City.
01:12:58
>> And attendees attendees will get like a a digital grab bag that has a lot of
01:13:03
freebies and discount codes and things that they can take home with them, plus a few uh, workshops to help inspire and
01:13:10
encourage them because our venue doesn't really it's not conducive to have
01:13:15
breakout sessions that at that venue. So, we're going to send him home with you to watch
01:13:20
>> with a when we have coffee or a glass of wine or whatever later. >> Exactly. Love that.
01:13:26
>> On your own time. Yeah. >> Love that. Very cool. Well, that all of
01:13:32
these things are going to be linked down in the description below. Like if the if
01:13:35
these are at all of interest to you, link down below. If you just want to like learn more, check them out. They're
01:13:40
really cool resources. Even myself as a home school alumni, I found them really cool. Um, again, just as like an
01:13:46
opportunity to like know about what's happening in the homeschool landscape,
01:13:50
um, and and what's out there? Um, you know, call me weird, but that's, you
01:13:55
know, my whole life has become homeschool themed at this point. Um, so, um, yeah, Kim, is there anything we have
01:14:02
not touched on that we need to talk about? >> Nope. I appreciate you um having this
01:14:09
these conversations, the nuance of you know perspectives that you know what education should look like and what we
01:14:18
have to you know how how do we get how do we get the good, the bad and the ugly out there and talk about it all. So I
01:14:24
appreciate that because parents I do believe are looking for educational alternatives for what's best for their
01:14:30
child. Um, and so yeah, >> we need homeschool advocates to be included in that because all stories
01:14:38
matter so that we can figure out a solution together. >> Awesome. Yes. Thank you and thank you
01:14:43
for coming on. Thank you for sharing your story and and being vulnerable with us. Thank you again for what you do. Um,
01:14:48
it's absolutely incredible. So with that to the audience again, if you found
01:14:53
anything useful from this episode, let me know. There's comment sections down
01:14:57
below on Spotify, on YouTube. You can shoot me an email. e [email protected]. All my socials and stuff are linked
01:15:03
below. Everything that Kim and I talked about. If you know it was books uh or resources, I'm going to try to link
01:15:10
those down below. If I missed anything, let me know. I'll make sure I get it to
01:15:13
you. And uh yeah, with that, we'll see you next week. Peace.