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What is good my exhies? It is your boy
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Jacob Gooden and we are back for another
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week of the exhomeschoolers club. Today
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I'm joined by a brand new friend, my
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friend Julius. And uh we're going to
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touch on growing up in a big homeschool
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family. Okay, Julius is one of 12 kids
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and holy smokes, I can't even imagine
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the craziness that that household must
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have experienced. But we're also going
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to touch on Julius's experience of
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having a dad who was a pastor. We're
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going to talk about going through high
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school during the COVID years and just a
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bunch of other like homeschool
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shenanigan type stuff. But before we get
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into it, I have a favor to ask and that
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is if you haven't already, go subscribe
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on YouTube. Okay? If you're watching
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this on YouTube and you haven't
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subscribed, what are you doing? Click
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subscribe. I very much appreciate it.
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And if you're listening on audio and you
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didn't even know we had a YouTube
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Xomeschooler club uh on YouTube.
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Subscribe, maybe watch a video or two,
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like a few things, scroll through
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shorts, feed the YouTube algorithm, and
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help me continue to grow our subscriber
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base over there. I very much appreciate
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it. Now, let's get into our convo with
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Julius.
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Well, Julius, welcome to the Ex
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Homeschoolers Club. I'm so excited to be
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chatting with you today. Welcome.
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Welcome to the club.
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>> Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. I've
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been watching your channel for a bit.
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Um, honestly, I think it just was
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recommended on my for you page and I'm
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actually kind of grateful because like I
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don't know, it's fun to find like a
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smaller channel that you relate with so
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like
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>> completely. It's just so funny. So, I'm
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glad that was recommended. I don't know
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if I would have found the channel
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otherwise.
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>> Hey, it means the algorithm is doing its
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job. It's putting it out there. Got it.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Did the work and it got it to the right
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person. Me.
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>> Yes.
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>> Sweet. Well, I like to kick everything
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off. I'm just going to kind of turn it
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over to you for a few minutes and like I
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would love for you to kind of walk us
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through your homeschool experience like
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you know siblings and how many years
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were you homeschooled and you know
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graduation and like just kind of give us
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like the overview and then maybe also a
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little bit of like what a day in the
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life looked like.
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>> So I had um there were 12 kids total. So
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I had 11 siblings. Um, there were nine
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girls in our family and three boys and I
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was the ninth kid down the lineup. So, I
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was very like towards the end of the of
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the family dynamic. Um, I was very much
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a middle child in like all of the ways.
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Um, so that was kind of like family
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situation. like we were we grew up in
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like the countryside in California and
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we um were very like to ourselves like
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we just did not have a lot of like
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homeschooling families or generally any
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like families with kids like there were
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like I would say three main families
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that we knew that had like kids but
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there was just not a lot of people
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around us so it's just I like grew up
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very isolated I would say um yeah so
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that was interesting and I would say um
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a typical day in the life. It went
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through phases because there were months
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of the year where we would be like
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really strict with it where we would be
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doing a like um like waking up at 7 and
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getting by to our desks by 7:30 after
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having eaten breakfast. And then there
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are also seasons of our my life where it
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would be like I would wake up at 10:00,
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roll out of bed, get in like less pajama
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clothes, and then roll back in bed and
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do school for six hours and then be
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done. And like it would just go through
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phases of like my parents like caring
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levels. And also as I got older, like I
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was more in control of my schedule and
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like my schooling and even grading
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stuff. Like by the time I was a senior,
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my parents were like so hands off. I
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like did my grades by myself. I
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calculated my GPA by myself. Like it was
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just um it was crazy. So at the end I
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was basically like teaching myself like
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fully just completely I taught myself
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algebra because neither of them were
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like um neither of them were like
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doctors. They both had like high school
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diplomas, but they didn't have like
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degrees in anything like school related.
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So, they really weren't like equipped
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for that.
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>> Um, so I was like I taught myself
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algebra and I hated it. I flunked. That
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was the only the only um subject that I
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was ever like that bad at. And I got a
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B. That was the only B that I got in my
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like schooling. So, I was like very good
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at school. And I still like I still like
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school. Like honestly, it's I still like
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learning. I still do studying on my free
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time. I'm that homeschooled kid who
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liked writing essays and reading books
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and doing the book reports. Like I was
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that homeschooled kid. Um and I'm
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actually fine with that. I was like so
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funny as a kid looking back like I was
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reading dictionaries. I was so weird. I
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loved that little girl for being a
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weirdo that she was. But yeah, it would
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just go through like phases of my
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parents caring a lot and then not caring
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as much. And we used a Becca like all
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throughout. Um there was only like one
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semester where we switched over to doing
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paces. Um and that was the worst
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semester of my schooling experience. Um
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I got nothing done even in the subjects
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that I'm good at, which is like English
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and like history. I got nothing done
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because I could just not wrap my head
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around pieces for some reason. I think
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it was because at that point I'd been
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using um Abecca for about I want to say
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like that was around like 8th grade. So
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I've been using it from kindergarten up
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to then and I was just like I couldn't I
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could not wrap my head around paces at
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all. Like I feel like it probably would
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have been fine if I hadn't been like
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raised on a Becca and used to that
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format.
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>> So I also did grade a lot of my work and
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kind of like was self-sufficient in a
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lot of ways. And you mentioned like even
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when you felt like in math with algebra
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you were like I'm doing so terribly and
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you're like I ended with a B. Like
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that's a passing grade. And I'm that way
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too where like I I was like if it's not
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an A like it's not good enough kind of a
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thing. And college was like my wakeup
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call for me where I was like oh
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>> like my professor isn't mad that I got a
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B. Like yeah there's more work I could
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put into it but like I'm not like I'm
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still going to get a degree
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>> kind of a thing. And I don't know, do
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you think that that's exclusively a
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homeschool thing or do you think that
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that's like a universal like kids in
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general are just like we have to get
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A's?
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>> I think it depends on the person
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honestly because my sister the first
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time that she got like a 70 on a on a
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spelling quiz, she like was sobbing. So
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I do think like in our family it was
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like promoted, right? um like to get
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good grades because we wanted to prove
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that we were like good at what we were
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doing. My parents had like a lot to
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prove in that respect. Um
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>> and I think it just depends on the
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person because I've talked to like um
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public schoolers who are like so
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intensely like I have to get A's or else
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it feels like my life is like crumbling.
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And then I've talked to home schoolers
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who like now I got a C and I don't give
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a [ __ ] Like I just I just don't I don't
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care like I pass, right? Um, so I think
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it just depends on the person and the
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parents definitely. Um, just different
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expectations.
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Um, yeah, it just depends on the person,
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but I I was definitely like as I got
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like in my teen years, I was definitely
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like a lot more chill. But I feel like
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after like failing, I say failing, but
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really wasn't like after just like
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struggling with algebra, I was like, you
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know what, I don't care anymore. And I
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ended up like doing really well the rest
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of the time. like I didn't give up, but
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it just wasn't as big of a concern. But
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when I was younger, definitely like a
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very big concern to like get A's and do
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really well. Um, so yeah, it just
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depends on like the environment, I would
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say, in the person.
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>> So my parents let us like we could
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retake things. So if we didn't get the
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grade we wanted, we could retake it and
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do it over. Did your parents do
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something similar? They would if we got
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below I think it was even if we got
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below a 75 they would have us take it
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again. Um sometimes we would retake it
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if we got below an 80 even because we
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wanted a better grade and we knew we
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could do better. Um but they would let
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us retake things as I got older. It was
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just like it got way more relaxed um
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because they were on the tail end of
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their kids. Like they were a lot more
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just like whatever about things. you
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know, how parents are with just like
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younger siblings, just a lot more leeway
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there. But then, um, yeah, we would be
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able to retake things and get the grades
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they wanted. Um, so yeah, just that
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would happen pretty often. Um, I can't
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think of any instance where like I got a
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low grade and I didn't have to retake it
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to be honest. So
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>> my my parents it was a lot more about
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like they they really believed in like
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the mastery of stuff and so for math for
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instance even if we didn't retake it my
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dad cuz my dad was more of the ma the
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math guy in the family and so he would
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sit down with us and walk us through and
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be like okay like I need you to
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understand how this operates right and
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so and he could tell right you struggle
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with like I didn't do super well in
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algebra geometry was more my thing I
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could see it right I could visualize it
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um but algebra was just like, I mean,
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you're dealing with the unknowns and the
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it
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>> Yeah.
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>> all of a sudden letters are in play.
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You're like, what the heck is going on?
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Um
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>> and um and he would always remind me.
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He's you know, there's levels of math
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where there's like literally no numbers
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involved at all. It's like all letters
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and it's just very hypothetical. And
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he's like, "So that you should be you
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can do this because there is like
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numbers involved." He's like, "Once we
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get into the hypothetical situations,
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that's where you're really going to
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struggle." And I'm like, "Okay, good to
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know." So it always made me feel better.
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But he took a lot of time to like sit
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down and be like, "Okay, it's about
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understanding the concept of it." And so
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that sometimes it wasn't always about
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retaking it as much as it was just like,
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"I need you to know what this is so we
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can move on." Because it's building
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blocks, you know?
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>> And I feel like with my parents, if they
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had the knowledge to like help me
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understand, they would have um cuz for
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some things they really did like care a
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lot. and um like they wanted I feel like
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they wanted that but they didn't have
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the knowhow to get me there on their
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own. Um which is one part where I feel
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like they kind of like dropped the ball
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a bit in terms of like
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where where they could have improved.
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Like I think they definitely could have
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done some like research or like tried to
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get their own degrees or just had
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someone else teach us because like I
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feel like all of my siblings are
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brilliant but I don't think it was
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because of their teaching you know it
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was definitely like self-taught or like
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we were doing our own research or we
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learned it after because like all of my
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siblings are really smart but it's just
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um I don't think it was because of their
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like knowledge of learning you know and
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how and teaching and stuff. Um, I really
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just think it was selftaught for the
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most part. Um, yeah. Yeah.
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>> So, what's the age difference between
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your oldest sibling and then the
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youngest?
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>> So, the youngest right now is 13. Um,
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and the oldest is like 35, I want to
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say.
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>> Okay. So, yeah, big
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>> big difference. My actually oldest
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brother has a kid who is the same age
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like four months off um that as my
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youngest brother. So like
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>> Okay. Yeah.
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>> That's the age difference we're working
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with. Like he was married and having
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kids but at the time that my mom was has
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having her last kid.
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>> Yeah. Uh, so with a a family dynamic
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like that, I know that cuz I'm a family
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of two two kids and so yeah, we would
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help each other with stuff and we have a
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three age a three-year age gap and so
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yeah, of course we would help each other
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with stuff, but I know in some of the
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bigger families sometimes the older kids
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end up teaching the younger kids and and
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you know that gets passed down. Was was
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your experience anything like that where
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you're like okay like older sister is
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now like running math for me?
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>> Yes. Uh so my sister who is two years
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older than me taught the youngest
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brother how to read. That's the kind of
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thing that was happening. She taught him
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how to read. Um like my like older
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siblings would help us do like uh with
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like classes. Um my older sister who I'm
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living with now like basically raised me
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more than my mom did. So yeah, there was
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definitely a lot of that. like um we
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called it the buddy system.
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>> Um I think I think the Duggars also did
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it. So I think it's just a big family
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thing where like an older sibling like
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takes care of the one of the younger
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ones. Um and yes, there was definitely a
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lot of that going on between like my
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sister teaching my brother how to read.
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Like my siblings would show me how to do
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like the more complex math problems that
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they had already done like algebra and
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stuff.
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>> So they would do that. They would show
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us like how to do um like diagramming
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and like grammar stuff like that like
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all the time. All the time it was
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happening. Yeah.
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>> Which can be both good. It's like a good
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bad thing in in my opinion where it's
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like it it is nice to have those people
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in your life that are like a little
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older and they can like sometimes
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sometimes hearing from someone who's
00:13:45
only, you know, two to three years older
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than you is they can explain it in a way
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that makes more sense than like a parent
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can or a teacher can. Um, but then yeah,
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like you said, having parents who
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can are invested in like their own
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education to make sure like you're
00:14:01
getting a solid education is is really
00:14:04
helpful as well. And so you um
00:14:08
was there like co-ops or anything that
00:14:10
you were involved in or like other
00:14:12
homeschool families in your life that
00:14:13
you guys, you know, piggyback off of
00:14:15
each other or was it very like we're our
00:14:17
own thing and that's it? Honestly, yeah,
00:14:20
we were on our own for like the whole
00:14:22
time. We did charter schools so that we
00:14:24
could get like the diplomas at the end
00:14:27
of like um high school, but past that
00:14:31
like we were very like just were doing
00:14:34
our own thing. Like there were other
00:14:36
homeschool families, but we were not
00:14:37
like at all connected to them um in the
00:14:40
sense that they were helping us like
00:14:42
learn or we were learning with them.
00:14:44
Like that was not happening at all. Um,
00:14:47
and it just didn't happen. I don't know.
00:14:50
I think my parents just wanted to be on
00:14:53
their own for some reason. Although I
00:14:55
would say that, but after I've moved out
00:14:57
now, my parents are joining a co-op,
00:15:00
like a homeschool co-op. And I was like
00:15:03
>> so baffled by that. I was just so
00:15:05
baffled. I was like, why now at the tail
00:15:08
end of all your kids are you now joining
00:15:10
a co-op? That's just so weird. Um, so I
00:15:13
really don't get it. But no, not during
00:15:14
my time that there were no co-ops. We
00:15:17
just did charter schools. So we would
00:15:19
like send in samples of like our work
00:15:22
and we would get like the grades and
00:15:24
like the backing like the institution
00:15:26
backing
00:15:27
>> um to reflect that and that was what we
00:15:29
did all throughout my time. when we
00:15:31
chatted before we I had brought up that
00:15:34
like I grew up very much involved in
00:15:35
like the co-op environment that was like
00:15:38
I think we were signed up for a co-op
00:15:40
before we had even like started
00:15:41
homeschooling and so it was one of those
00:15:44
things and part of that had to do with
00:15:46
my mom had friends who were homeschool
00:15:47
moms and so they she had people to go to
00:15:50
when we were when she was getting
00:15:52
started to kind of be like hey like what
00:15:54
should we do here and like what what has
00:15:56
been beneficial for your family and that
00:15:57
kind of a thing but it also gave us an
00:15:59
environment to like have community and
00:16:02
community of like-minded people which
00:16:04
like
00:16:06
>> can be super important you know it's
00:16:08
like you I don't know I I remember I
00:16:11
look back on my first couple years of
00:16:12
homeschooling very as being very
00:16:14
isolating
00:16:16
>> and that had to do with I went to public
00:16:17
school for 2 years and so I was used to
00:16:20
classroom setting 18 20 kids you know we
00:16:24
were friends we play dates afterwards to
00:16:26
go from that to like everyday school is
00:16:28
like me my mom and my
00:16:31
That's a very different experience for
00:16:32
you. I mean, you were born and raised in
00:16:34
it, so that's normal all the way
00:16:36
through. Not to say it's not isolating,
00:16:38
but it, you know,
00:16:39
>> but there's a difference there when
00:16:40
you're like have experienced it versus
00:16:42
haven't, you know, and so
00:16:44
>> I was just curious like, yeah, if the if
00:16:46
the co-oping thing had been
00:16:47
>> a portion of that, what what then was
00:16:50
like socialization like for your family?
00:16:53
>> So, I would honestly say socialization
00:16:55
was just the church that we went to and
00:16:58
nothing else. um up until I would say
00:17:02
after COVID. Then it kind of branched
00:17:04
out a bit. Um but it was still very
00:17:07
church centered all the way up through
00:17:09
my like teen years until I graduated. Um
00:17:13
I think the most isolated though I was
00:17:16
ever like I had ever been was during
00:17:19
COVID because then I was literally just
00:17:22
at home all of the time. I didn't even
00:17:24
have church at that point. Um, and I was
00:17:26
like,
00:17:28
>> uh, 13, 12, 13 when COVID like happened.
00:17:32
And it just like that was the most
00:17:35
isolated I've ever been. And before
00:17:37
that, like the only outlet I had was the
00:17:39
church. And it just to have that cut off
00:17:42
was just devastating. Yeah.
00:17:44
>> Unmatched. It was so terrible. Um, but
00:17:48
then after that, like things kind of
00:17:50
shifted to be more like out like I got
00:17:53
to be more outside of the house a bit
00:17:57
more. Um, because I was like babysitting
00:17:59
and I was like driving and like uh I
00:18:03
just had different things to do. So that
00:18:04
was a bit nicer and I was doing
00:18:06
extracurriculars like um horseback
00:18:08
riding and ballet and jiu-jitsu
00:18:11
um for a bit. So I had like other
00:18:14
outlets at that point. But yeah, during
00:18:16
CO that was the most isolated I had ever
00:18:18
been. Um, but it's not to say that
00:18:20
during like my younger years, I was not
00:18:22
isolated at all because I remember like
00:18:25
because it was a Becca you would have
00:18:26
like the classroom videos and I remember
00:18:29
wishing I was in the classroom instead
00:18:31
of sitting outside of it and like
00:18:33
wishing I could talk to these kids and
00:18:35
like just like wanting that so badly and
00:18:39
like being like just so disconnected
00:18:42
from it was like hard. I remember that
00:18:44
being hard as a kid. Um to not
00:18:47
understand like why I couldn't be in the
00:18:49
classroom as with them was just like so
00:18:51
strange, you know.
00:18:52
>> You know what's so interesting? So you
00:18:55
kind of alluded to the fact that yeah,
00:18:57
you're you're pretty fresh out of the
00:18:58
homeschool world and um not that long
00:19:01
ago I had a friend who he's a little
00:19:03
older than I am. I'm 29 and so he's in
00:19:05
his 30s and he did I want to say it was
00:19:09
a Becca but it was very but his was like
00:19:11
tapes. So you put the tape in and watch
00:19:13
the classroom. And he described feeling
00:19:15
the same exact way about watching this
00:19:17
classroom of kids do their, you know,
00:19:19
experience the lecture and go through
00:19:21
class and do all this stuff and you're
00:19:22
at home just, you know, watching these
00:19:24
people do it and doing your own
00:19:26
worksheet but alone and wanting that
00:19:29
like, man, I just want to be in the
00:19:31
seats next to them and and that kind of
00:19:33
a thing. And so I find that so
00:19:36
interesting because like
00:19:39
I to I totally get that. I totally get
00:19:41
that feeling because like I was saying
00:19:42
like my first couple years of
00:19:43
homeschooling were I felt that way even
00:19:45
though my video lessons were much more
00:19:47
of like a lecture. I didn't see a
00:19:48
classroom of kids. Like it was very just
00:19:50
like some dude in front of a whiteboard,
00:19:52
you know, circling stuff. But but I
00:19:55
remember that feeling of just being like
00:19:56
I just want to be around other people
00:19:59
because that's such a crucial like
00:20:01
developmental time
00:20:03
for kids, right? It's like you you're
00:20:06
learning how to interact with other
00:20:07
people and you're learning how to like
00:20:09
you know when to be nice and when to
00:20:11
stand up for yourself and you know and
00:20:12
what it's like to get bullied and what
00:20:14
it's you know sometimes what it's like
00:20:15
to be the bully and you know all these
00:20:17
different things. You're learning all
00:20:19
this stuff and so I think that's one of
00:20:21
the weak spots of home that
00:20:22
homeschooling can be is like you take
00:20:25
that away from a kid and so you have to
00:20:27
supplement it like you talked about in
00:20:28
high school. Okay so after co now I have
00:20:30
all these extracurriculars. Well, if you
00:20:32
had had those as a young kid, maybe
00:20:35
maybe Yeah, exactly. You know, maybe it
00:20:38
would have been maybe you would have not
00:20:40
felt quite as like alone in the in the
00:20:43
classroom setting because you're like,
00:20:44
well, I I still know that like I'm going
00:20:45
to go do jiu-jitsu and you know, Betsy
00:20:48
and Susie are also going to be there and
00:20:50
you know, and my friend Steve and Kevin
00:20:51
like they're also going to be there and
00:20:52
we can all hang out. So, so as you like
00:20:57
you talked about after co kind of
00:20:58
getting into like extracurriculars, like
00:21:01
what was that shift like for you?
00:21:03
Because I'm not going to say it was the
00:21:04
first time you socialized, but it
00:21:05
definitely seems like it was a key point
00:21:07
in like really being like I'm on I'm I'm
00:21:10
growing up.
00:21:11
>> The biggest like thing is all throughout
00:21:14
my childhood, I really wanted to do
00:21:16
ballet. And so when I finally got the
00:21:19
chance to do ballet, it was like I loved
00:21:22
it so much. I still love ballet. Um I
00:21:24
don't do it anymore because I don't have
00:21:26
like the funding to do it. Um but I
00:21:28
would still love to do it honestly. And
00:21:31
I remember just wishing I could do it
00:21:33
because I had friends who did it and I
00:21:35
just wanted it so bad. We were like so
00:21:37
broke when I was a kid. We could not.
00:21:39
But once we got the funding from the
00:21:41
charter school, we were finally able to
00:21:43
like join a class and like do recitals
00:21:46
and it was really awesome. Like I loved
00:21:50
it so much. I was like getting to know
00:21:53
people. I was put getting exercise and
00:21:56
putting passion into this thing that I'd
00:21:58
wanted in for so long. It just truly was
00:22:01
like so like I am so grateful for that
00:22:04
like moment of being able to do that.
00:22:06
And then my first ballet teacher, she
00:22:09
was like the first non-Christian that I
00:22:12
knew on like a very very personal level.
00:22:15
And I like loved her so much. And I feel
00:22:18
honestly a little bad looking back
00:22:20
because I tried to like proitize her all
00:22:23
the time just cuz I was I was like my
00:22:25
mindset was if you're not a Christian,
00:22:27
you can't be a good person. And she was
00:22:29
like one of the first instances that I
00:22:31
realized that was not the case and that
00:22:34
I realized that there were good people
00:22:36
outside of my world like who are just
00:22:39
living their life and being happy and
00:22:41
like enjoying their time on Earth. And I
00:22:43
was like that was like groundbreaking.
00:22:45
And I know it's not that crazy of a
00:22:46
thing to realize, but it was pretty
00:22:48
crazy to realize at age like 14, 13, it
00:22:52
was it was pretty crazy to realize that
00:22:54
and just be like, "Oh my gosh, you can
00:22:55
be happy and fulfilled outside of the
00:22:58
church and it's like perfectly fine." Um
00:23:01
so yeah that was pretty like big turning
00:23:03
moment like key key um like thoughts and
00:23:08
were happening then and just lots of
00:23:10
changes were happening during COVID and
00:23:12
after COVID because of where I was at
00:23:14
like developmentally and then also just
00:23:17
where I was at in life. It just a lot of
00:23:20
things changed um like precoid and then
00:23:24
postcoid like a lot of things happened
00:23:26
to where I just went through so much
00:23:28
change so quickly. Well, if you don't
00:23:30
mind like talk a little bit about that
00:23:31
like what was what were some of these
00:23:33
shifts that were you know obviously you
00:23:35
talked about okay so first time meeting
00:23:37
not necessarily meeting somebody who's
00:23:38
not a Christian but having someone
00:23:40
involved in your life heavenly heavily
00:23:42
who's who's not a Christian you seeing
00:23:44
them like oh this is a good person this
00:23:46
is a kind of person this is like a
00:23:48
normal human being
00:23:49
>> you know and that being impactful but
00:23:51
like what else was going on and shifting
00:23:53
at that point
00:23:54
>> before co about like I want to say nine
00:23:58
months before co um we my dad took a
00:24:02
pastor for a different church and we
00:24:05
started living in two houses
00:24:08
um and we were bouncing between them
00:24:12
because we couldn't sell the one house
00:24:15
um because it's like historically
00:24:16
important and then um the pastor or I
00:24:20
mean the the like pastor house I don't
00:24:22
know personage there's the wordage yes
00:24:26
um we also had that house we were
00:24:28
bouncing from house to house and I was
00:24:30
doing school on the road a lot. Um I
00:24:32
spent more time on the road than I did
00:24:35
at a house really at that point in time.
00:24:38
Um because we were just driving so much.
00:24:40
Um and that was a big change like
00:24:43
changing churches and changing social
00:24:46
groups was a big change. And then at
00:24:49
that time we also switched charter
00:24:51
schools. Um, and that's how we got the
00:24:54
funding to do like ballet and such. Um,
00:24:56
was this different charter school that
00:24:58
was offering like state funding because
00:25:01
as homeschooling has like gone on, it's
00:25:04
gotten more and more funding, especially
00:25:06
in California, like you can get funding
00:25:09
to do extracurriculars because of just
00:25:12
people like advocating for for
00:25:14
homeschoolers. And I really do
00:25:16
appreciated that. Um, so yeah. Um but at
00:25:20
that time we switched charter schools,
00:25:22
we switched churches and um like I was
00:25:26
still with the same curriculum, but I
00:25:28
was just it was just a crazy time. And
00:25:30
then COVID hit and we were no longer
00:25:33
going to church. So my dad had to like
00:25:35
switch up his whole thing and we were
00:25:38
now like only at the one house most of
00:25:40
the time and we were um like just doing
00:25:46
school basically all the time and we
00:25:48
didn't have like a lot of like we didn't
00:25:50
have a lot of places to go because of
00:25:52
COVID. Um we were just really like
00:25:54
stuck. Um
00:25:55
>> and my dad was doing like pastoring like
00:25:58
online. He would he would devote a lot
00:26:00
of time to that so he was like not
00:26:02
around. I think that was his way of
00:26:03
dealing with COVID. Um, honestly, I
00:26:06
don't even remember how my mom dealt
00:26:08
with it. I just remember that it sucking
00:26:11
a lot. Um, just because like everyone
00:26:14
was trying to distract themselves
00:26:16
because we were all in the same house.
00:26:19
And at that time, I want to say we had
00:26:22
seven kids in the house. Six kids.
00:26:25
>> Yeah,
00:26:25
>> maybe. I think seven or six. It changed
00:26:29
halfway through COVID because one of my
00:26:30
siblings left, I believe. Um,
00:26:34
and that also was a big change. So, I
00:26:36
actually had two
00:26:38
sisters leave like during CO and postco
00:26:43
and that was a big change like becoming
00:26:45
the oldest of the house was a crazy
00:26:47
change that also happened like in that
00:26:49
span of time. Um, so yeah, I just it was
00:26:53
like a crazy time I guess in those ages
00:26:56
of like 11 to 14 things are already like
00:27:00
changing a lot for you like mentally and
00:27:03
just like physically and everything but
00:27:05
then also having all of these external
00:27:07
factors like um just happening at the
00:27:10
same time. It was it was a wild time to
00:27:13
be alive. I would say also um internally
00:27:17
like that was the point where I was like
00:27:19
um like questioning faith and like
00:27:22
questioning my identity um and like
00:27:25
realizing I was bisexual and like all of
00:27:27
the things were happening all at once.
00:27:30
Um and like there's a lot of internal
00:27:33
things happening like just
00:27:35
earthshattering few years. Well, I was
00:27:38
going to say like I was in my early 20s
00:27:41
when COVID was happening and like that
00:27:43
was it was hard enough for me being 23
00:27:47
24 when that was happening and like so I
00:27:51
can't even imagine being 14 15 cuz I've
00:27:53
been doing
00:27:54
>> recently I've been doing a lot of like
00:27:58
>> retrospective on early teenage years and
00:28:02
like the growth and that you know all
00:28:03
that kind of stuff and so so recently
00:28:06
kind of put myself in that same mindset
00:28:08
of you thinking back to that time of
00:28:10
like okay like what is things are
00:28:11
changing right my body is just naturally
00:28:13
changing and then like you know you're
00:28:15
re your your sexual awakening is
00:28:16
happening and like you're starting to
00:28:18
develop thoughts for for yourself a lot
00:28:20
of times of like
00:28:21
>> you're you're growing into adulthood uh
00:28:24
in a manner of speaking and so it yeah
00:28:26
like that's that's a big shift and then
00:28:28
you tack on like you said all these
00:28:29
other external factors of siblings
00:28:31
leaving the house and COVID and mom and
00:28:34
dad maybe not being available or they're
00:28:35
also struggling and having a deal and
00:28:38
everybody's just trying to survive like
00:28:40
oh my gosh I can't imagine I'm sure it's
00:28:42
like very one isolating but two just
00:28:45
like
00:28:46
I would I would assume it just feels
00:28:48
like you're going insane at that point
00:28:50
>> genuinely and I think that genuinely I
00:28:53
dealt with it the best way possible but
00:28:55
at the time I felt like I was crazy like
00:28:58
you said like I felt like I was crazy
00:29:00
for like thinking these things and
00:29:02
feeling so like it was just it was it
00:29:06
felt
00:29:06
It felt insane. It felt insane to go
00:29:09
through. Um, yeah. And I think it's
00:29:11
interesting to see how like CO affected
00:29:14
different people, especially in like
00:29:15
different life stages because it is such
00:29:18
like a big thing that happened to
00:29:20
everybody. But it just like Yeah. It
00:29:24
just is crazy how different people like
00:29:27
went through it because Yeah.
00:29:29
>> It was different for each person. Yeah.
00:29:31
>> Yeah. Well, and you talked about like
00:29:34
kind of deconstructing your religion
00:29:35
during that time. Like I was doing
00:29:37
something similar. And so like I think I
00:29:39
think that that it's interesting cuz the
00:29:43
co was both a very busy time in a lot of
00:29:46
people's minds, but it also was like
00:29:47
this very like it was very still at
00:29:50
least for the first couple like months
00:29:52
almost because you're just like every
00:29:55
nobody knows what's going on. The world
00:29:57
is shut down. like everyone's just gonna
00:29:59
make sourdough and film Tik Toks and
00:30:01
that was like the thing. But it gave
00:30:03
people a lot more time to to kind of
00:30:05
quiet their mind and just like think
00:30:07
about stuff.
00:30:08
>> And so for me, I was like running
00:30:10
through religion and what do I believe
00:30:12
and do I actually think that this is
00:30:14
real? And if I don't think it's real,
00:30:16
okay, what does that mean for me? And
00:30:18
where do I position myself and all those
00:30:19
types of things. So what like what were
00:30:23
you what what thoughts were going
00:30:24
through your brain as you're like
00:30:25
thinking about religion and and maybe
00:30:27
deconstructing or restructuring that in
00:30:29
your brain?
00:30:30
>> Yeah. So I feel like the biggest issue
00:30:33
in my early years of deconstructing was
00:30:36
um me being bisexual and attracted to
00:30:39
girls and like knowing that I did not
00:30:42
choose that. um like just realizing it
00:30:45
on on a day like a random day and just
00:30:48
being like oh what the what does that
00:30:51
mean now? Like am I a sinner just
00:30:53
inherently? Because I didn't pick it and
00:30:55
I was like struggling with that very
00:30:57
deeply. Um and I really just like my
00:31:01
answer for it in the beginning was just
00:31:03
to dive deeper and like be like God just
00:31:05
take it away. I will do anything. Just
00:31:08
don't like just take it away please. I
00:31:10
don't want it. Um, and I w I did that
00:31:13
for about I want to say like a year and
00:31:16
a half. I was really just like diving in
00:31:19
like reading the Bible. I was praying. I
00:31:21
was like like literally begging God to
00:31:24
just like have the feeling stop or just
00:31:28
like have them just go away or like
00:31:31
saying I'll never act on them, but like
00:31:32
please like I don't want to feel guilty
00:31:34
about this. Like just bartering the
00:31:37
whole time. And then around
00:31:40
age, I want to say like 14 and a half, I
00:31:45
started coming out of that event and
00:31:47
being like, "Okay, well, if you're not
00:31:49
going to help me, then I'm going to do
00:31:50
my own research and do my own thing."
00:31:52
Because I've always been like really
00:31:54
into researching and analyzing things.
00:31:56
And also, I've really been big on
00:31:59
accuracy in the Bible and outside of the
00:32:02
Bible. I just love being accurate and
00:32:04
efficient. It's just something about me.
00:32:06
I just love it. So, at that point, I was
00:32:08
like, "Okay, I'm going to find out what
00:32:11
is accurate because if this if you
00:32:13
aren't helping me, then I'm just not
00:32:16
going to engage with this anymore." Um,
00:32:19
really. And so I started doing I started
00:32:23
because I knew what people would say
00:32:25
post me becoming a Christian if I
00:32:29
started by going to um like atheists and
00:32:34
like the intellectual thinkers who
00:32:36
weren't Christian. So I was very aware
00:32:39
of that during my deconstruction of how
00:32:42
people would talk about my story after I
00:32:45
came out of the religion. So I was very
00:32:47
aware of that. So what I started by
00:32:50
doing was by reading the Bible and
00:32:52
reading basically all of my um like
00:32:56
theology books that I had, all of the
00:32:58
theology books that my parents had. And
00:33:00
I just like dove right in. And I was at
00:33:03
that time I was taking like my own notes
00:33:05
on like how I saw like issues with their
00:33:09
thinking, um like issues with what the
00:33:13
Bible said, inconsistencies. I was I was
00:33:16
writing all of this down and like taking
00:33:19
it all in and like just absorbing all of
00:33:22
this knowledge um because I wanted to
00:33:25
have a control over my narrative that I
00:33:27
heard about other people not heaven and
00:33:29
I wanted that to be the case where I was
00:33:31
like no I did study the Bible and that
00:33:33
was what I went to first. Um and these
00:33:37
are the inconsistencies that I found.
00:33:39
Um, and part of that is like kind of sad
00:33:41
that I was so aware of what other people
00:33:43
were thinking before it even happened.
00:33:45
Um, but then also I'm al also kind of
00:33:48
grateful for it in a way. Um, because I
00:33:52
was doing the best I could with the
00:33:54
knowledge that I had. And um, yeah. So
00:33:59
after I did that for about I want to say
00:34:02
like six to nine months uh probably
00:34:05
probably maybe to a year um I started
00:34:08
looking up like these issues I was
00:34:11
having and studying the issues and going
00:34:13
through the issues and realizing that
00:34:15
other people before me long before me
00:34:18
had had these similar issues and like
00:34:21
like garnering that understanding of one
00:34:24
my parents are not infallible two the
00:34:27
Bible is not infallible. Like it's just
00:34:30
it's not. Um and just like
00:34:34
just like getting to a point where I was
00:34:37
like, "Okay, so I know that these things
00:34:39
are not true.
00:34:41
So now where do I go from here?" Um was
00:34:44
the question. And um
00:34:48
it was a little difficult because I kind
00:34:50
of just went straight into like, well, I
00:34:52
just don't believe and I'm done. Like
00:34:54
and I just don't want anything to do
00:34:55
with it. And I kind of sat in that for a
00:34:59
little bit. Um, but not honestly for too
00:35:02
long because I still love like studying
00:35:04
and I still love like just reading the
00:35:06
Bible honestly because it's such an
00:35:08
interesting book once you like put it in
00:35:10
the perspective of like ancient people
00:35:12
wrote this and it's cool to read things
00:35:14
that ancient people wrote, you know,
00:35:16
it's just a fun thing to read. Um, so
00:35:21
once I got to like the point of like
00:35:22
studying it again, I was like, "Okay, I
00:35:24
still don't believe, but I'm
00:35:26
appreciating the Bible for what it is as
00:35:28
like mythology book and like this
00:35:31
history of people." And then I started
00:35:34
studying like other religions and
00:35:36
similar like experiences to mine. Um
00:35:40
like Mormonism and uh ext Jehovah
00:35:43
witness stories and um Catholicism
00:35:48
and like just studying mostly those.
00:35:49
Honestly, I don't I am kind of bad at
00:35:53
like reaching outside that scope because
00:35:55
those are the ones that are so similar
00:35:56
to my experience. Um, I'm trying to get
00:35:58
better at that and like study more, but
00:36:01
those are really similar to mine. And on
00:36:03
obvious obviously I want to hear like
00:36:05
everyone's story. So if someone were to
00:36:07
come up to me and be like, "Hey, I was
00:36:10
an ex like Muslim." I'd be like, "Oh,
00:36:13
cool. So what was your story then?" Like
00:36:15
I would love to hear. But it's kind of
00:36:17
um I don't really seek that out on my
00:36:19
own just because I'm still learning a
00:36:22
lot about the ones I'm more into. And
00:36:25
then also I feel like even though there
00:36:27
are similarities, I think the way that
00:36:30
um some religions are, it would also be
00:36:33
a little triggering um to learn about.
00:36:35
So it would just depend. Um but yeah, so
00:36:39
at that point I was studying other
00:36:41
religions and like just I still didn't
00:36:43
believe. I still don't. Um, but right
00:36:46
now I would say where my faith is at,
00:36:49
um, is I don't believe. Um, and
00:36:53
if God were to prove himself to me, I
00:36:57
don't think that I would instantly go
00:36:59
back to being Christian just because of
00:37:02
the things if the God of the Bible, I
00:37:04
should say, was like to prove himself to
00:37:06
me. I would have a lot more questions
00:37:08
than answers to that because I would
00:37:10
want to still ask like, why is this the
00:37:13
way that it is? and like what are you
00:37:15
doing?
00:37:16
>> I I feel Yeah. I I kind of have there's
00:37:18
two things that really stuck out to me
00:37:20
with what you were saying, but the the
00:37:21
first thing I'm going to talk about is
00:37:23
the
00:37:24
>> the like God revealing himself and like
00:37:27
okay, like if he were to show himself,
00:37:30
what does that mean? I agree with you. I
00:37:31
have tons of questions, right? Because
00:37:33
if if the God of the Bible is accurate,
00:37:35
then like yeah, why is there
00:37:38
>> pain and suffering and all of these
00:37:39
things, right? and why is there hell and
00:37:41
like you know there's lots of questions
00:37:42
around those things and there's
00:37:44
obviously tons of theologians and great
00:37:46
thinkers who have answered those or come
00:37:48
up with you know theories around why
00:37:50
that would be but yeah I mean I
00:37:52
definitely
00:37:54
>> I agree with you I think I would have a
00:37:55
lot of questions
00:37:56
>> in regards to that and I don't even know
00:37:59
that I would instantly go back either
00:38:00
because you know
00:38:02
>> I sit in a place of very like I call
00:38:04
myself agnostic where I'm like I don't
00:38:07
know what I believe or I'm like I some
00:38:09
days I'm an atheist. Some days I'm like,
00:38:11
"Yeah, maybe there is a God." Um, but I
00:38:13
don't know which one it is. But I agree
00:38:15
with you also on the looking at the
00:38:17
similarity between certain religions,
00:38:20
right? Like the Jehovah's Witnesses and
00:38:22
the Mormons and even the Muslim faith.
00:38:24
It parallels the Bible a lot more than I
00:38:27
grew up believing. And so looking at
00:38:29
those stories, it's I think there's a
00:38:31
comfort in it because you you like you
00:38:34
see the similarities between those as
00:38:37
compared to something like Buddhism or
00:38:40
Hindu or you know anything like that
00:38:42
where it's like it I don't know as much
00:38:44
about those and I haven't done as much
00:38:45
research about that and and I will get
00:38:46
there someday but it yeah it's
00:38:48
definitely uh it feels
00:38:51
>> different in the sense of I think the
00:38:54
way that the the church and the teaching
00:38:56
is structured is vastly different. And
00:38:58
so that's why I think so many people
00:39:01
relate to like we said Mormonism, you
00:39:04
know, and like and Christianity,
00:39:05
evangelical Christianity and uh
00:39:08
Catholicism and even Muslim, right? Is
00:39:10
is because Islam because it's like
00:39:12
there's a very similar structure to
00:39:14
there's a church and there's a service
00:39:15
and you do all these things and you read
00:39:17
these books and you follow these people
00:39:19
and like that's that's the way it works.
00:39:21
>> And there are like social rules too,
00:39:23
right? Yeah. there's a lot of social
00:39:24
rules around how you act and what you do
00:39:26
and what you wear and those types of
00:39:28
things.
00:39:28
>> The um the other piece that I that
00:39:32
really hit me with what you were saying
00:39:33
was the the controlling of the narrative
00:39:36
and
00:39:37
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:39:37
>> Yeah. because I I thought a lot about
00:39:39
that as well where I was like, well,
00:39:43
I know what I believe and it was
00:39:45
shifting and it was like I don't I don't
00:39:47
believe in the Bible anymore and I don't
00:39:49
believe in God anymore, but I can't just
00:39:51
like state that. Like I didn't feel safe
00:39:53
and just stating that because I was like
00:39:55
I know that someone is going to come
00:39:56
along and they're going to be like,
00:39:57
"Well, you then you were never a
00:39:58
Christian,
00:40:00
>> you know?" Okay, cool. Like that's you
00:40:02
know, whatever. That's your thinking. I
00:40:03
know the reality of what I believed, you
00:40:06
know, and and things like that. But I
00:40:08
wanted, like you said, I wanted I think
00:40:10
I think it was less of a it was a worry
00:40:14
of of what people were going to say
00:40:16
about it, but it felt like people would
00:40:20
then write my story for me. And that was
00:40:23
what I was realizing was that I had
00:40:25
already
00:40:27
>> I felt like so much of my story had been
00:40:29
written kind of by other people to some
00:40:31
degree. Um, and now I was like, this is
00:40:34
the the next chapter which is by me. I'm
00:40:37
the author now.
00:40:39
>> And that I think was the the thing that
00:40:41
I worried about when I started to come
00:40:43
out about it because I was just like,
00:40:45
>> no, I'm in control now. Like this is my
00:40:47
story and nobody else gets to tell it
00:40:49
for me. And so I was like, I have to
00:40:51
have the rebuttals and all these things
00:40:52
in place. As I've gotten older, I've
00:40:53
been realized like I don't really give a
00:40:55
[ __ ] what anybody says. Like that's
00:40:57
>> they're going to believe what they're
00:40:58
going to believe and that's fine. I know
00:41:00
what I know about myself and that's what
00:41:02
I choose to show to the world. So
00:41:04
anyway, but th those things really
00:41:06
resonated with me on what you were
00:41:07
saying and I wanted to say thank you for
00:41:09
for sharing because that's you know it's
00:41:11
not easy.
00:41:11
>> I think it's so interesting to be so
00:41:13
hyper aware of your experiences as
00:41:17
you're experiencing it. And I just I
00:41:20
think that's such an interesting aspect
00:41:21
of what I was going through is I was
00:41:24
hyper aware of reacting to my
00:41:26
experiences as I was experiencing them.
00:41:29
And that's just an interesting position
00:41:30
to have yourself in. And I'm glad I'm
00:41:32
not the only one who is like I want to
00:41:34
be in charge of what people say. And
00:41:36
then another thing is for me if like
00:41:39
they're going to try and like debate or
00:41:41
argue um what come keep coming back to
00:41:45
is um like personal experiences are very
00:41:50
important in testimonies for them. And
00:41:53
if my personal experience is not good
00:41:56
enough for them and I have to have like
00:41:57
a dissertation on what is going on in in
00:42:01
my brain for them to like believe me and
00:42:04
understand and be empathetic then I
00:42:06
don't really want to be having that
00:42:07
conversation with them anyway and we can
00:42:10
talk about other things or and if
00:42:12
they're not willing to talk about other
00:42:13
things then we don't really have to talk
00:42:15
because if like personal experience is
00:42:18
good enough for them for fellow
00:42:19
Christians then it stands to reason that
00:42:22
my personal experience should be like
00:42:24
have the same respect every time. Um,
00:42:28
and there are people who I know are who
00:42:30
are like that who are still Christian
00:42:31
and like my personal experience doesn't
00:42:33
negate theirs. Um, and they are I'm
00:42:35
still friends with him and like it's
00:42:38
just it just depends on the person. So
00:42:40
yeah, that's what I've kind of come down
00:42:42
to is like it has to be enough and I
00:42:44
don't have to justify myself to you.
00:42:47
>> No, that's a beautiful way of putting it
00:42:49
um Julius because I I definitely like
00:42:52
This year, I've spent so much time
00:42:54
thinking about this very vivid memory in
00:42:56
my head of going to a church function
00:42:59
and people giving their testimonies. And
00:43:01
this one man had this
00:43:04
wonderfully colorful testimony about
00:43:07
being in Vietnam and and fighting the
00:43:09
war and being a drug addict and and
00:43:11
sleeping with all these prostitutes and
00:43:12
how God met him at a a moment of
00:43:15
weakness and pulled him out of that and
00:43:17
he changed and he became a better
00:43:19
person. And like that's a beautiful
00:43:21
story, right? That you can go from being
00:43:23
kind of awful to being a better person.
00:43:26
That's a beautiful story.
00:43:28
>> But yeah, my I always felt my story was
00:43:30
not colorful enough to it felt inferior,
00:43:34
right? And but to your point of like if
00:43:36
if stories and personal testimony is
00:43:39
something that hinges a lot, you know,
00:43:41
on on it's good enough for them,
00:43:43
>> then yeah, my personal story of being
00:43:45
like,
00:43:46
>> well, this wasn't great in my life.
00:43:48
That's
00:43:49
>> that's that should be valid to those
00:43:51
people as well. And I think I think to
00:43:54
be honest I think that's a big part of
00:43:55
why this show exists is because I
00:43:57
realized that I want people to feel
00:44:00
comfortable sharing their stories small
00:44:02
big crazy not like down to the most
00:44:06
minute what most people would think is
00:44:08
boring kind of situations like type of
00:44:11
thing and not and hopefully just feel
00:44:13
like I can just share my story because
00:44:15
the human story is I think one of the
00:44:18
most interesting things because every
00:44:20
one of us even though there's a ton of
00:44:21
similarities between your your
00:44:23
upbringing and my upbringing. There's
00:44:25
also a ton of differences and and
00:44:29
hopefully we can hear those and unpack
00:44:31
those and come to common ground on some
00:44:33
areas and I don't know it just I think
00:44:34
it makes us better people when and it
00:44:36
makes life more interesting when there
00:44:39
is that variety of of stories out there.
00:44:42
>> Definitely. And I think when you get
00:44:44
into this um like place of sameness
00:44:47
where all the people think the same, you
00:44:49
suffer for it. Your brain thrives under
00:44:53
new experiences and learning new things.
00:44:56
And when you don't provide your brain
00:44:58
that, it just you stagnate and you
00:45:00
aren't as vibrant of a person as you
00:45:02
could be. And I truly believe that like
00:45:04
new experiences and learning new things.
00:45:07
I think everyone should do it. I think
00:45:09
everyone should do it like almost daily
00:45:11
if you can. Like just try something new.
00:45:13
Like tonight I'm going to make pizza all
00:45:15
by myself because I've never done it
00:45:17
before and why not, right? just do
00:45:20
something new and learn something and
00:45:22
try to expand your knowledge. That's
00:45:24
like something I've always been
00:45:25
passionate about. It was one of the
00:45:26
things that my parents like always would
00:45:29
congratulate me on and just like really
00:45:31
respected about me. Um, and right now
00:45:34
I'm not talking to them, but I still
00:45:35
think that like if you were to ask them,
00:45:38
they would say that like I do love to
00:45:40
learn and just like that was one of the
00:45:41
things that would they would constantly
00:45:43
burn up. And I think a lot of people
00:45:46
should like kind of get that passion
00:45:48
within them and just like tear like just
00:45:52
just tear tear up the world and learn
00:45:54
new things, you know? Like I just I
00:45:56
think more people should get dive into
00:45:58
that passion honestly. It's one of my
00:46:00
favorite things to talk about and I love
00:46:02
hearing about people doing new things
00:46:04
even if it's very mundane, you know. I
00:46:06
just love it. I love it. It's my
00:46:08
favorite.
00:46:09
>> Yeah. Well, I'm I'm curious then. So,
00:46:11
like your parents congratulate and and
00:46:14
support like this study this like I want
00:46:17
to learn new things, right?
00:46:19
>> Yeah.
00:46:19
>> But was there
00:46:22
exceptions or guard rails to that? And
00:46:25
like let me give you a little bit of an
00:46:26
example. So, I grew up the town I grew
00:46:27
up in in California was a little bit of
00:46:30
a a witchy town. We had some occult
00:46:32
stuff in the area and I started Yeah.
00:46:36
And I started working at the local
00:46:38
library and you know the library is the
00:46:41
hub of all knowledge um in my opinion.
00:46:44
And
00:46:44
>> it is. Yes.
00:46:45
>> And so I would reshelf books on the on
00:46:48
the shelves and there was all of these
00:46:50
books about Wikah and all these things.
00:46:51
And at first I was just very like just
00:46:53
put them back on the shelf and walk
00:46:54
away. And then eventually I got to a
00:46:56
point where not that I was checking them
00:46:58
out but I would just like you know flip
00:46:59
through a couple pages and be like I'm
00:47:01
just intrigued by what does this mean?
00:47:04
Right? And
00:47:06
maybe it was I don't want to say it was
00:47:08
dangerous cuz I I now sit kind of in
00:47:10
maybe a similar position of you. Like I
00:47:12
think it's just learning about stuff is
00:47:13
very interesting and
00:47:14
>> but I started to pick up on things that
00:47:17
it was like oh this is less about like
00:47:20
summoning Satan and more about like
00:47:22
using herbs to like cure a disease or
00:47:25
something like that, right? Or set set
00:47:27
an intention. But all that being said, I
00:47:30
know for a fact that my parents would
00:47:32
have been like, "Do not touch those
00:47:33
books." You know, there would have been
00:47:35
this guard rail of like, "If I brought
00:47:36
those home, this is not staying in the
00:47:38
house more than five minutes." You know,
00:47:40
um kind of a thing. And so I'm
00:47:42
>> potentially burning it,
00:47:43
>> right? Potentially burning it, right?
00:47:45
Yeah. There's going to be a strongly
00:47:46
worded letter to the library saying,
00:47:47
"Why do you have these things?" Um kind
00:47:50
of a thing. But what like
00:47:53
was there maybe that kind of a thing
00:47:55
within your house of like yes like
00:47:57
knowledge and learning is like important
00:47:59
but there's also we don't go there.
00:48:02
>> They would say that they encouraged the
00:48:04
learning and like um but I would say
00:48:07
that they would encourage learning so
00:48:10
long as you reach the same conclusion as
00:48:13
the Bible or as they had. Um, and like
00:48:18
there was very big like amounts of
00:48:20
confirmation bias happening or just
00:48:22
straight up like mental gymnastics to
00:48:24
reach the conclusion that they wanted to
00:48:26
reach or they wanted you to reach. Um,
00:48:28
and when that didn't happen, then it
00:48:30
would be an issue. So, they would say
00:48:32
that they encouraged it, but truly they
00:48:34
just wanted to feel like they had
00:48:36
studied something so that they had like
00:48:38
the high ground and so that they didn't
00:48:40
feel like they had reason to be
00:48:42
attacked. Um, and then in regards for
00:48:45
you bringing up like reading the books
00:48:46
about Wikah, that's so funny because
00:48:49
when I like during COVID and when I was
00:48:53
like like 12, 13, and 14, I went through
00:48:56
like a Wikah phase and like doing like
00:48:59
practices for myself and like mostly
00:49:02
they were like calming practices and
00:49:04
like stuff um and like charging crystals
00:49:07
to like be calm and it gave me something
00:49:09
to do during co but it's so funny that
00:49:11
you bring that up as like one of the
00:49:13
things that you did that your parents
00:49:14
wouldn't have liked because I have I I
00:49:17
absolutely know they would have hated to
00:49:19
think that their daughter was like, "Oh
00:49:20
yeah, I'm I am a practicing witch right
00:49:23
now and I was like I was when I was 13."
00:49:27
It's just like and I still kind of do
00:49:29
some of those habits just because
00:49:30
they're nice habits to do. Um I wouldn't
00:49:33
say I'm practicing, but it is like funny
00:49:35
to think that
00:49:37
>> um just like with similarities, you
00:49:40
know, just so funny. Actually, it's just
00:49:42
so funny that that the human experience
00:49:44
is so vast but also so small at the same
00:49:47
time.
00:49:48
>> Well, I I even thought it was
00:49:49
interesting. I went to um Boston not
00:49:51
that long ago and you know if you take a
00:49:53
train outside of Boston, you go to
00:49:54
Salem, Massachusetts,
00:49:56
>> famously the witch trials and the witch
00:49:58
burnings and all that stuff. And so
00:50:00
going to those museums and learning
00:50:02
about what classified as as a witch and
00:50:04
learning about that it's like you know
00:50:07
we you know why why do we view witches
00:50:10
as like the green skin kind of a thing
00:50:12
and like the super pointed nose and all
00:50:14
these types of things. Well, you're
00:50:15
talking about women who would live out
00:50:18
in the middle of nowhere, were just
00:50:19
exposed to the elements and they would
00:50:22
cook for themselves and they had to they
00:50:24
were medicine women a lot of times and
00:50:26
they would go and they would they would
00:50:27
create tonics and they'd figure out, you
00:50:29
know, this route plus this thing makes
00:50:31
this and that helps, you know, with a
00:50:33
cough or that helps with whatever. And
00:50:35
so, it very much was this naturopath
00:50:40
kind of thing. And so I I I laugh
00:50:43
because I think there's a lot of people
00:50:45
still inside of like evangelical
00:50:46
Christianity who are very like
00:50:48
naturopath like you know they're like oh
00:50:50
let's just only use things from the
00:50:52
earth and I'm like that's witchcraft.
00:50:54
Like that's like the basis for a lot of
00:50:56
witchcraft. Um and so I just I joke with
00:50:59
my mom all the time because she loves
00:51:00
her essential oils. I tell her I'm like
00:51:03
that's your witch's brew right there.
00:51:04
You know
00:51:05
>> and so
00:51:06
>> my mom would be so mad at me if I said
00:51:08
that but you are absolutely right.
00:51:10
>> Yeah. So, I just, you know, I just think
00:51:11
it's funny that we like look at these
00:51:13
things and and sometimes we don't
00:51:16
necessarily know the history of of where
00:51:18
these things come from or like, you
00:51:20
know, we just have
00:51:21
>> we have a concept in our mind of what
00:51:23
has been taught to us for for many years
00:51:26
and programmed into us and of what this
00:51:28
is and what it looks like and throwing a
00:51:30
pentagram on the ground and lighting
00:51:32
black candles and, you know, summoning a
00:51:34
demon. Well, that's maybe not exactly
00:51:36
what everybody's talking about. And so I
00:51:38
think to your point of like learning
00:51:42
about things and also being okay with
00:51:43
learning about things that make you
00:51:45
uncomfortable,
00:51:46
>> oh my gosh, it will open up your mind to
00:51:48
so many things that it's just like, oh,
00:51:50
okay, maybe this is just very different
00:51:52
than than I experienced. It also leads
00:51:55
to the ability for people to then have
00:51:57
conversation around it and for you to
00:51:59
feel maybe more comfortable going to
00:52:00
somebody who is of a differing opinion
00:52:02
than you and actually discuss it and ask
00:52:05
questions and feel valid in doing that.
00:52:07
>> I love expanding my knowledge. I
00:52:09
definitely think that that's a good
00:52:11
point. Um yeah. Um it's just it is funny
00:52:16
cuz when you said that I was thinking
00:52:18
back to how my mom is very like
00:52:20
naturopathic and she's like all into
00:52:22
like grounding and like um essential
00:52:26
oils and she would rather you not go to
00:52:28
the doctor. And then my dad who is like
00:52:31
kind of the opposite where he's like
00:52:33
very he's like very chill with medicine.
00:52:34
I would not say that he is like down
00:52:40
with medicine like he is not super like
00:52:42
gung-ho for it but he is like when the
00:52:46
vaccine came out for for COVID he was
00:52:49
willing to take it. Um he was going to
00:52:51
do it and my mom was the one who was
00:52:53
against it. Uh so that's kind of like
00:52:55
the dynamic there. So I kind of have
00:52:57
like both like I kind of saw both sides
00:52:59
of like the more chill with medicine
00:53:01
person and the not chill with medicine.
00:53:04
um like as opposed to like taking
00:53:05
ibuprofen for a headache. She would go
00:53:07
say, "Look, here have this essential
00:53:09
oil. Rub it on your like wrist and it'll
00:53:11
make you feel better." And um I think
00:53:15
that's just funny. Like I had those two
00:53:17
sides of that coin, you know, just
00:53:19
funny.
00:53:20
>> Again, it goes back to like learning
00:53:22
sometimes the history of like where do
00:53:24
these things come from? And I think it's
00:53:25
important to understand where drugs come
00:53:26
from and those kind of things. But yeah,
00:53:28
it is it's an interesting thing. Um,
00:53:31
like I said, to see all these uh
00:53:32
evangelical Christians be like super
00:53:34
into naturopath, but then it's like
00:53:35
they're like super against witchcraft.
00:53:37
It's like,
00:53:37
>> well, they're not witches. That's not
00:53:39
what's kind of the same thing. Yeah.
00:53:41
>> Um, I wanted to ask you like to about
00:53:47
your extracurriculars. you brought up
00:53:49
like horseback riding and ballet being a
00:53:51
big one for you and um this is obviously
00:53:53
like a big pivot from what we've been
00:53:54
talking about, but like
00:53:56
>> tell me a little bit about like those
00:53:58
and like so was that with stuff like in
00:54:01
the community and less so of like it
00:54:03
wasn't obviously a co-op thing because
00:54:04
you guys weren't a part of home co-ops
00:54:06
at that point, but like was there other
00:54:08
homeschool families involved in that or
00:54:09
was it very like just hey it's a bunch
00:54:10
of other kids in the in the uh
00:54:13
community?
00:54:14
>> Right. So, it was um it was mostly just
00:54:19
other kids in the community. Um it was
00:54:21
not a co-op thing. Um but how the
00:54:24
charter school worked is it had specific
00:54:26
businesses called vendors that would
00:54:29
support the payment through the state
00:54:32
and they would like they were able to go
00:54:35
go through that process and they were
00:54:37
like vouched for and all that. Um and
00:54:39
those were the ones we would go through.
00:54:41
Um, and there it was still like very to
00:54:46
ourselves comparatively, but it was like
00:54:48
doing activities. So, um, I only did
00:54:53
jiu-jitsu for I want to say like
00:54:56
six months maybe like maybe maybe nine
00:54:59
months. Um, a bit like it was right
00:55:01
before co so it was very like not very
00:55:03
long and then after that I didn't go
00:55:05
back. Um but then horseback riding I did
00:55:09
for about
00:55:11
two years I want to say and ballet I did
00:55:13
for about three and a half. Um so yeah
00:55:17
before and after co um I did it yeah um
00:55:20
and I really liked horseback riding. We
00:55:23
had horses we still have horses living
00:55:26
on the property where I grew up and um I
00:55:30
only rode those horses once because
00:55:32
they're super old. They're like over 25
00:55:34
years old, both of them. And one is a
00:55:36
mom and one is a son. So, you know,
00:55:38
they're like real stinking old. Um, and
00:55:42
so I didn't ride those very much, but I
00:55:44
was like I grew up around horses. I was
00:55:45
like familiar. And then, um,
00:55:49
so when I started riding, that was
00:55:51
really nice just to like get that
00:55:53
experience. I really loved it. Um, I
00:55:56
didn't do any like competitions or
00:55:58
anything. Um, I was not at that level,
00:56:02
but I would have loved to, you know,
00:56:03
like if I had gone to that level, I
00:56:05
would have done it. Um, my parents
00:56:07
probably wouldn't have been pretty very
00:56:09
chill with it because it probably would
00:56:11
have been like on Sundays and stuff and
00:56:12
they were very big on not letting the
00:56:15
extracurriculars
00:56:16
mess with church in any way. Um, so
00:56:21
yeah, like church came first in all of
00:56:24
in all of my childhood all the way
00:56:26
through up. Like if you had the choice
00:56:28
between helping with the church event or
00:56:30
doing school, it was the church event.
00:56:32
If you had the choice between doing an
00:56:34
extracurricular
00:56:36
um or your own thing versus a church
00:56:38
event, it was the church event every
00:56:39
time. So yeah, the church was like more
00:56:43
important than anything else and
00:56:46
sometimes even more important than me or
00:56:48
other siblings. Like it was just my
00:56:50
parents very much cared um about that.
00:56:53
Do you think that if your parents maybe
00:56:56
had been able to separate like the
00:56:58
school from the church thing maybe a
00:57:01
little bit more that it would have I
00:57:04
guess it's kind of hard if your dad is
00:57:05
the pastor that it's like it is it is
00:57:07
kind of all entwined in inside of itself
00:57:10
but like I do wonder
00:57:12
>> if there had been able to maybe be that
00:57:14
separation of like okay hey like school
00:57:17
is important and this is the time you
00:57:19
know we all lot for that and this is
00:57:21
good and then like here's church and
00:57:23
this is important and this is good but
00:57:24
there may be exceptions.
00:57:27
Do you think that that would have been
00:57:28
beneficial or you think that it would
00:57:30
have
00:57:30
>> Yeah, I don't think it could have
00:57:32
happened in my family but I think it
00:57:34
would have been beneficial. Yeah. Um
00:57:37
>> I think that oftent times like school
00:57:40
was pushed to the back burner for me and
00:57:42
my other siblings and then we were
00:57:44
expected to pick up the slack. So I
00:57:47
remember oftent times um from even when
00:57:50
I was younger I would stay up late doing
00:57:52
school but not like that late but when I
00:57:54
was in high school I would do all
00:57:55
nighters during school because of things
00:57:57
that would happen and it was my job to
00:58:00
regulate my schooling and I would
00:58:02
sometimes like spend a whole day working
00:58:04
at a church event um and then just spend
00:58:07
all night like doing school. Um, and
00:58:10
that would happen often. Um, and my
00:58:13
parents knew about it and they would
00:58:15
like support it. Like they were fine
00:58:16
with it. Um, they didn't like love it,
00:58:18
but they would also know about it and
00:58:20
not care, you know. Um, because I think
00:58:22
they did know that like um, it was kind
00:58:25
of their fault that I was like having to
00:58:27
do these all nighters and they did not
00:58:29
want to like touch it. I guess my
00:58:30
followup to that is like so let's say
00:58:33
someone comes to you and they're
00:58:34
thinking about homeschooling their kids
00:58:36
and they're like okay Julius tell me
00:58:39
about I mean you've already shared with
00:58:41
us a lot of your homeschool experience
00:58:42
but like
00:58:43
>> you know I'm thinking about doing this
00:58:45
what are some things that I should be
00:58:46
thinking about or maybe that I could do
00:58:48
differently that like
00:58:50
>> just
00:58:51
>> you know what are you what are you going
00:58:53
to say to them when they when they're
00:58:54
coming to you kind of just being like
00:58:55
what what do I where do I look for this?
00:58:57
Yeah, I would say if you are planning on
00:59:00
homeschooling your kids, make sure that
00:59:02
you have developmentally
00:59:04
appropriate support systems for your
00:59:06
child and then at the time that they are
00:59:09
old enough to make a choice about their
00:59:11
life, um, let them make that choice
00:59:14
because there are times I wish that I
00:59:16
would have just been able to make the
00:59:17
choice to go to, um, like a real high
00:59:20
school uh, during during my high school
00:59:23
years. I think that could have been
00:59:24
really beneficial to me. And I think
00:59:26
that that is also tied into the age
00:59:28
appropriate like support system because
00:59:31
as your child gets older and becomes a
00:59:34
teenager and like just becomes their own
00:59:36
person, they need
00:59:38
um experiences outside of the house. It
00:59:41
is very important for that to happen.
00:59:44
And if you don't provide that for them
00:59:47
in a safe space, then they are going to
00:59:49
find it themselves and it will not be a
00:59:51
safe space and it will not be good for
00:59:55
you and um or for your kid. So I would
00:59:58
say if they're old enough to make a
01:00:00
choice, let them make the choice of
01:00:02
being homeschooled or not. And then if
01:00:04
they do choose choose to be
01:00:05
homeschooled, provide them with the
01:00:07
support systems that they need and the
01:00:09
uh outside experiences because even
01:00:12
though like during ages 1 to five, you
01:00:15
are your child's old world, you are not
01:00:17
going to be that forever. You will be
01:00:20
very disappointed when they turn 18 and
01:00:22
move out and you're not their whole
01:00:25
worlds anymore. like you tried to
01:00:27
construct like this whole bubble where
01:00:30
you were their whole world and like you
01:00:32
curated everything and you will be very
01:00:35
disappointed and you will take it out on
01:00:37
your kid or on yourself and it's just
01:00:39
not going to be beneficial to you in the
01:00:41
long run. So just having that space
01:00:45
between like I am not my the end all be
01:00:48
all for my child I guess is what I would
01:00:51
say.
01:00:51
>> Yeah. I I think that's like wonderfully
01:00:54
put and I I the things that I I glean
01:00:58
off of that is just honestly like
01:01:01
I I've had some people on before where
01:01:02
we've talked about the ability the
01:01:04
ability for a homeschool parent to
01:01:06
separate like mom and dad from the
01:01:09
teacher and and in your case then also
01:01:12
from the pastor. So like a third a third
01:01:15
chunk there because most parents
01:01:18
>> even the ones who unfortunately like
01:01:22
>> are just terrible as homeschool parents.
01:01:24
They a lot of them it stems from a place
01:01:26
of they want their child to have a great
01:01:28
education and they want their child to
01:01:29
go very far in life.
01:01:31
>> And I don't I don't think that
01:01:33
>> I'm not going to say that there's not
01:01:34
any but I just think that most parents
01:01:36
do. And I think what you're saying about
01:01:38
when your child gets to a certain age,
01:01:40
of course you're going to make decisions
01:01:41
for them of what could be best, but
01:01:43
start to listen to what is like working
01:01:44
and not working for them and make the
01:01:46
adjustments necessary because
01:01:49
>> yeah,
01:01:49
>> maybe it is public school or maybe it's
01:01:51
a different curriculum or maybe it's a
01:01:53
hey, we got to get this kid involved in
01:01:54
some extracurricular stuff. It it can be
01:01:57
really minor stuff that just
01:01:59
>> yeah changes the whole trajectory of
01:02:02
everything. And
01:02:04
>> I'm thankful because I don't know that
01:02:06
my parents maybe 100% did that
01:02:07
correctly, but they did some things
01:02:10
right where I I definitely
01:02:13
they listened to when I was like, okay,
01:02:16
I really don't like this math. Like we
01:02:17
did a Becca, too, right? And it was like
01:02:19
I was just like, I don't like this. And
01:02:21
they were like, okay, then we're going
01:02:23
to find something different, you know?
01:02:24
And and that worked, but it Yeah, it
01:02:27
definitely was like a listening of like
01:02:30
and that was that was a lot of work for
01:02:32
them, too. You know what I mean? Like it
01:02:33
I think that's why a lot of parents
01:02:35
sometimes just shove the like it's the
01:02:36
same thing over and over because they're
01:02:38
like well I've already made the
01:02:39
decision. This is what it is. It's just
01:02:41
an easy copy paste over and over and
01:02:44
over and it's like but if it's not
01:02:45
working it's not you know it's not going
01:02:48
to be great.
01:02:49
>> And I do think in some respects my
01:02:51
parents did that but then also in some
01:02:53
other ways they just copy and pasted a
01:02:56
lot of things. Um, and it just, yeah, in
01:02:59
in in the times that they listened, it
01:03:01
was really helpful, but when they
01:03:02
didn't, it just it kind of harmed a lot
01:03:04
of people. Um, so yeah, I would say they
01:03:08
did try in some areas, but then they
01:03:10
also just didn't do it in some other
01:03:12
areas that they weren't willing to bend
01:03:13
on at all. Um, yeah, so kind of just
01:03:17
unfortunate in those respects, but I'm
01:03:19
glad in some parts they did listen
01:03:20
because it did make my teen years easier
01:03:23
to have those outlets. Um, so yeah, I'm
01:03:26
really grateful for that.
01:03:27
>> Well, and I'm glad that you've come out
01:03:29
of it and like you're
01:03:32
you know, you have you still have a love
01:03:34
of learning and I think that that's like
01:03:36
crazy important. I think most most of
01:03:39
the homeschoolers I know that that was
01:03:41
one of the things we all came out with
01:03:42
is like this love for learning still.
01:03:44
And I think that's that's going to get
01:03:46
you much further in life than basically
01:03:48
any other skill, right? because this
01:03:51
this longing to be like, okay, if I need
01:03:53
to know something, I'm going to go
01:03:54
figure it out. And so,
01:03:56
>> um, so in that regards, your parents did
01:03:59
well. Maybe all of the ways to get there
01:04:00
were not great,
01:04:02
>> but um, Julius, this has been amazing. I
01:04:06
thank you again for coming on and
01:04:07
sharing your story. Is there anything
01:04:08
else that we missed or
01:04:12
a favorite homechool memory that's
01:04:13
popped in your brain while we've been
01:04:14
talking or anything? Is there any other
01:04:17
little thing? So, a good homeschool
01:04:18
memory. Let me think. I would say
01:04:22
growing up with my siblings has been was
01:04:24
really great. I think that I am grateful
01:04:28
for the closeness that me and my
01:04:29
siblings have um and in the house and
01:04:34
outside of the house now that we're all
01:04:35
adults. I think that that was that is
01:04:38
something that I really appreciate. even
01:04:40
though they may not have done like the
01:04:42
best job with homeschooling, I do
01:04:44
appreciate that all of us siblings like
01:04:46
kind of banded together against that
01:04:48
sometimes and for that at times and it
01:04:50
just I'm really grateful for that and
01:04:53
it's just a good memory to look back on
01:04:56
like the Christmases with my siblings
01:04:58
and my schoolmates and my bullies all in
01:05:01
one place.
01:05:02
>> Yeah.
01:05:02
>> No. Yeah. So, it's just great. I I
01:05:05
really appreciate like the closeness
01:05:07
that me and my siblings have. Um, yeah,
01:05:10
because there's a lot of us and it's
01:05:12
just good to feel really connected to
01:05:14
them.
01:05:15
>> Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's that's
01:05:17
the big family thing that I think like
01:05:22
I'm going to say I missed out on of just
01:05:24
that like there's so many that you just
01:05:27
like maybe it's the built-in best friend
01:05:28
or maybe it's the you know, whatever.
01:05:30
But you have that closeness that's like
01:05:32
that. That's really cool. That's always
01:05:34
been really cool in my opinion to see
01:05:35
with some of the larger families in my
01:05:38
in my community of just like wow like
01:05:41
>> they really get along or they really you
01:05:43
know I don't know. So anyway
01:05:45
>> yeah well and if you don't get along
01:05:46
with one of them you have like many
01:05:48
other options to get along with.
01:05:50
>> That's the thing with only one sibling
01:05:51
when we get along we get along really
01:05:53
really well. when we don't get along, we
01:05:55
don't get along at all, you know, and
01:05:57
so, you know, yeah, it's very um
01:06:01
>> yeah, it's very hot or cold uh a lot of
01:06:03
the times, but you know,
01:06:05
>> I get you as relationship that big
01:06:07
family for the world. It is I love them,
01:06:10
all of my siblings, and I want the best
01:06:13
for them all and uh yeah, just I'm very
01:06:16
glad to have them.
01:06:17
>> Yeah. Very cool. Well, once again, thank
01:06:19
you so much for coming on and and
01:06:21
sharing your ex homeschooler story with
01:06:23
with the community. I really appreciate
01:06:25
it. And thank you.
01:06:26
>> Um, yeah, and to the audience, I hope
01:06:28
you guys liked it as well. Uh, if you
01:06:30
did, you know, do the do the things,
01:06:32
right? Click the thumbs up, give the
01:06:34
fivestar rating. Julius deserves it.
01:06:37
And, uh, if you have any questions, feel
01:06:39
free shoot me an email
01:06:40
01:06:43
or shoot me a DM on, uh, Instagram,
01:06:46
threads, Tik Tok. I think that's all the
01:06:48
places at exhs club and um yeah and uh
01:06:53
I'm I do my best to try to get back to
01:06:55
each and every one of you. Um but yeah,
01:06:57
this has been fun and until next time,
01:06:59
we'll see you. All right, peace.
01:07:04
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01:07:15
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