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What is good my exhies? It's your boy
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Jacob Gooden. We're back for another
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episode of the exhomeschoolers club and
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today I'm so stoked because my new
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ex-homie friend Lydia. Lydia is joining
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us. Hey Lydia, good
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>> to see you.
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>> Um it has been a little bit of a process
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to make this happen. And that I'm not
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going to put it on you because it has
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been a mix of both of us. Both of our
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schedules have just been somewhat crazy
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of like getting on calls. You have a
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kid. I had a grandparent die. There was
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travel. There was sickness. There was
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all these things. So, it it's been a
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while to get this to happen, but we're
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finally making it happen. And we're
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going to share your homeschool story
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today, and I'm so excited.
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>> Thank you for having me. I'm really glad
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to be here.
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>> Well, let's um let's get right into it.
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Like, let's break it down. What was your
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homeschool experience like? How long
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were you homeschooled? Let's talk about
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siblings, where maybe you grew up,
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homeschooled, like give us kind of the
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the overview of everything.
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>> Oh, for sure. So, what I like to tell
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people is that I was homeschooled K
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through 12. I'm the oldest of seven
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kids, and I really am describing my
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experience as being fun, light, and
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quiverful adjacent in the sense that my
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family was not like the Duggar family,
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right? We weren't wearing skirts. We
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weren't as extreme. We weren't involved
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in like ATI. Um, but we were still on
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the spectrum of families that were
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pursuing those ideals. And so we had the
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15 passenger van, we had chickens, we
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had a garden, we were canning food, I
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was sewing modest skirts and dresses as
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one does. And um so we were very much in
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that sort of vision forum, aspirational,
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you know, homeschool, homestead
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lifestyle.
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>> I feel like I can semi-relate there.
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There's aspects of that that my mom
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really wanted. Like she always wanted
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chickens. She only had two kids. We did
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not need a 15 passenger van. We did not
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have a lot of land, but she like even to
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this day, she's like, "I want chickens."
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She's a huge like she gardens and stuff.
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We always had a garden and things like
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that, but she was always envious of my
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friends who had bigger plots of land and
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they had chickens and goats and all that
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kind of stuff. And so eventually I
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figured out we we figured out that I was
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like, "Mom, you're really good at the
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gardening stuff, so let's just trade
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produce with the people who have
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chickens and goats and we get and we'll
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be friends with them and we can go over
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and like enjoy that." Um, but yeah, and
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then you brought up the sewing thing,
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too. Oh my gosh. Like my sister and her
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friends like they would sew their own
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bathing suits and their own clothes and
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stuff like that and and kind of in that
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weird vein of like kind of Duggarish but
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like not totally. It was it was very
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strange. Like I don't know.
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>> In her pipeline, right?
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>> Yeah. Like where did that come from? I
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don't I don't know. Do you like
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>> was your mom encouraging that type of
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like behavior or what was the thing that
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you think was like stimulating that type
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of like almost there but like not quite
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there? So my mom actually majored in
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home economics. So that was her college
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education. And to my mom's credit, she
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can do pretty much anything that she
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sets her mind to. So like she made
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yogurt, she was making, you know, she
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was canning everything. She can fix
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things. She's an excellent quilter and
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she knits and she crochets. So like she
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already has those skills and
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capabilities. And then of course being
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within homesteading homeschool spaces,
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it values women having these kind of
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like feminine or what they would call
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feminine talents. And so I have a very
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distinct memory of being at the
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homeschool convention, of course, and I
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was sitting in the back and I was
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crossstitching something while I was
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listening to Anna, Sophia, and Elizabeth
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Botkin talk about stay-at-home
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daughters.
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So, kind of a nice little snapshot of my
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homeschool experience there.
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>> For sure. No. Did you Did you say what
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state you kind of grew up in? Cuz that's
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something I've been kind of exploring
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with people now, too, is like where did
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you grow up? because I think that also
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helps impact a little bit of like our
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homeschool experiences.
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>> Oh, no, for sure. So, my home state is
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Virginia. I actually live in Texas now,
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but my family is about 2 hours south of
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Patrick Henry College and the
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headquarters for HSLDA, which is the
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homeschool legal defense association.
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And um I think that Virginia is one of
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the states that has the fewest
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homeschool regulations. I mean, in large
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part due to the impact of HSLDA. Um, so
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there was a large homeschool community
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in my in my area. Um, also if anyone's
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familiar with Joel Salatin, I don't want
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to completely dox myself, but um, that's
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kind of, you know, I grew up in the
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Shannondoa Valley, so a lot of
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homeschool influence and a lot of like
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people who are trying to separate from
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the mainstream crowd and sort of live
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this pseudoagrarian
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semiself-sufficient
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lifestyle, I guess. Yeah, it is kind of
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this weird like thing that I've realized
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with homeschoolers is like it's it's
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like kind of this like granola mom
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lifestyle that now like to some degree
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like gets associated I think more with
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like the left a little bit but like it's
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like this weird pipeline of like growing
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up I view that as like very conservative
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and very like right-wing. It was just
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like smaller government or like even
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more libertarian is like very small
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government like we don't want them
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involved in our education. those types
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of those were the things I was seeing
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and that's it sounds like what you're
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describing uh your experience being like
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>> our family was very crunchy but not in
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like a treehugging liberal way but in
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like
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>> a far far right way and I I feel like
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I've heard someone say that the farther
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right you go the closer you get to being
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part of the left so
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>> it's a circle it's a giant circle at
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some point you flip over
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>> circle
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>> so let's talk a little bit about and you
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might not know the answer to this, but
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like is there do you know the reasons
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that your parents decided to homeschool
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you and your siblings or or is that
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still a mystery? And then like when it
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comes to the actual schooling itself,
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like were you following curriculum? Was
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your mom making it up as she went along?
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Like what did that look like?
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>> Sure. So in my parents early marriage,
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they were attending a Sovereign Grace
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church, which um used to be called
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People of Destiny International. And
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basically it's the church denomination
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or church planting network that Joshua
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Harris was part of. So he's the guy who
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wrote Ike is Dane and Goodbye. And so
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even from my earliest childhood
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memories, I remember that there were
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lots of large families in the church
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that we were part of. So there was a
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family that had 10 kids. I think there
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were several families that had at least
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five kids. And um the couple that was
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mentoring my mom and dad were
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homeschoolers. And so I think that for
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my parents, they like the church dynamic
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was already um really leaning into
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homeschooling even in like the mid '9s.
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And so I think that's really what
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influenced my parents. They saw these
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families around them homeschooling and
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they were kind of like drawn to that.
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And I think the other things that
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they've mentioned through the years um I
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know that they wanted us to have a
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biblical worldview. And I think
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especially my dad like was reading
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material about how public schools are
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focused on Marxism and feminism and
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secular humanism. And so they wanted us
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to have a Christian education. Um and I
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I mean I think they also appreciated the
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freedom of homeschooling. Um some of the
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you know it's it's just a more relaxed
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lifestyle and those were really the
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things that drew them. But you know we
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haven't had really pointed discussions
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about like why did you choose
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homeschooling? Right? Those are sort of
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the things that have flown out of
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conversation organically or the things
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that I've heard them say through the
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years. And I think that as you know the
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as they were involved in the
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homeschooling community over time, I
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think that um they really started to
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sort of adapt some of the like talking
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points for better for like from the top
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of the homeschool pyramid about how, you
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know, oh, Republicans are going to have
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more children and we're going to educate
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all of these children to be Republican
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voters and we're going to take back
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America for Christ, right? Right.
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>> Um, but really I mean I would say the
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major reasons that you hear conservative
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homeschool parents talk about
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homeschooling like those were my parents
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motivations as well.
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>> Yeah, there is kind of that like let's
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build an army. Um, and in in a lot of
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ways and like I remember even uh you
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brought up Josh Harris like I I'm more a
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product of the 2000s and the 2010s and
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so the his younger brothers Alex and
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Brett were more of the influence in the
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do hard things movement. I remember
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going to those conferences and seeing,
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you know, at 16, you should be sailing
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across the world. I remember being like,
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I'm a pathetic 16-year-old. I'm doing
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nothing um
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>> for for God, you know, and it's like,
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yeah, I'm just actually existing as a
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16-year-old and being normal. Um but
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those kind of messages of like, you
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know, we are a movement and we like we
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stick together and we stand by each
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other and like some of those things are
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not necessarily bad talking points. like
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there is obviously power and community
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and things like that, but but some but
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the the motivations at the core of a lot
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of those things were a little bit scary
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now to look at. And so,
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>> well, and you know, you talk about Alex
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and Brett Harris and I think that they
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were in such a unique position because,
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you know, Josh Harris had already
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experienced this like national success
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being in the national limelight. And I
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mean, Greg Harris, their dad, is one of
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the forerunners of homeschooling, you
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know, large on a national scale. And so,
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I think they were speaking to
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homeschoolers who were very isolated,
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whose parents probably did not have as
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much authority and leverage. And so they
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were sort of like in this really unique
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spot to talk about how teenagers are
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supposed to be doing all these massive
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things, but they already had this path
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laid out for them, right? They already
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had this model of what that should look
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like. And I think did one or both of
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them go to Harvard ultimately.
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>> That's a great question. I know at least
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one of them did. Yeah.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Because one of them is a is a
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lawyer, I believe, and um yeah, popped
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up recently in uh the Shiny Happy People
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documentary uh at some point. So yeah,
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it's a little uh a little shock there.
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Uh
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>> yeah, I got a little jump scare like
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whoa.
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>> Yeah. Um I'm curious a little bit about
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like an actual school day at your house
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because like I know from from my
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experience like my mom did a really I
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think she did a decent job at like
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finding curriculums that worked for us,
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but she also had a very
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>> she had a good idea of wanting us to be
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well-rounded. There was always this
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drive of like my kids need to be able to
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do whatever they want when they turn 18.
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So if they want to go to college, if
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they want to go to trade school, if they
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want to just like get married and have
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kids, like whatever they want to do,
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they need to be ready to do that.
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>> Yeah.
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>> And so I think she did a decent job of
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of really making sure we were
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wellrounded in that way. Now I've talked
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to other homeschoolers who their parents
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maybe didn't have that, right? They you
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know their their curriculum was more,
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hey, you're going to be a stay at home
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mother or for the boys is you're going
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to go out and you got to get a job and
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those type or trade school or whatever.
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And so I'm curious like how was
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curriculum in your house and how was
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like was there a structure or was it
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very like loosey goosey?
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>> That's totally that's a great question.
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So I'm really grateful for my homeschool
00:10:48
education because I've heard more and
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more stories from c from people who are
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saying my mom didn't structure my
00:10:53
education at all. I had no idea what
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grade I was in. My parents didn't care
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that my brother was dyslexic and
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couldn't read. My mom really did put a
00:11:01
lot of effort into making sure that we
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were studying things at a at an age
00:11:04
appropriate grade level and we also took
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standardized tests every year so she
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could always track and see okay like
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here's the standardized test for
00:11:11
Virginia here's where my kids are are
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measuring up and so I'm really I'm
00:11:15
really grateful for that because again
00:11:16
it's not across you know that's not
00:11:18
something that happens for homeschoolers
00:11:19
across the board and also in Virginia
00:11:22
homeschoolers can be religiously exempt
00:11:24
so they don't even have to file with the
00:11:26
state they don't even have to say hey
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I'm going to homeschool my kids and My
00:11:29
mom always filed every year saying,
00:11:31
"Hey, I'm going to be homeschooling my
00:11:32
kids." And she would also submit like a
00:11:34
packet of paperwork um to the local
00:11:36
school superintendent. Um which again
00:11:38
I'm so grateful for. And then when I
00:11:40
finished high school um I took the preat
00:11:43
and the SAT and um so you know, so I was
00:11:46
always on course to go to college. Um I
00:11:49
also took a lot of advanced classes. So
00:11:50
I was taking community college classes.
00:11:52
I was doing the dual enrollment classes
00:11:53
and I also took um AP tests. like I was
00:11:57
trying to klep out of different
00:11:58
subjects. Um, and so in that sense, I'm
00:12:00
really grateful. I think that
00:12:02
stereotypically, like a lot of other
00:12:03
homeschoolers, my math education was
00:12:05
like the biggest educational gap in my
00:12:07
experience overall. Um, so like I said,
00:12:09
I'm the oldest of seven and by the time
00:12:11
that my parents got to my two youngest
00:12:13
siblings, they sort of had figured out a
00:12:14
little more. So my two youngest siblings
00:12:17
are actually um they did very well in
00:12:18
math. Youngest sibling is an engineer,
00:12:21
you know, so they're they're doing
00:12:22
great. I would say though that um I
00:12:25
think the one of the failures of my
00:12:27
homeschool education is that even though
00:12:29
I was doing well educationally, I was
00:12:31
reading all of this content from
00:12:33
stay-at-home daughters and I was
00:12:34
reading, you know, all of the content
00:12:35
from places like Vision Forum. And so I
00:12:38
really didn't value education and I
00:12:39
didn't value higher education. And so I
00:12:43
feel like the value of my homeschooling
00:12:45
years kind of ended at the point that I
00:12:48
graduated. Um and I did go to college. I
00:12:50
went to Grove City College. I majored in
00:12:52
um entrepreneurship. So I do have a
00:12:54
college degree, but
00:12:57
like the time that I was in college, it
00:12:59
was not being directed towards
00:13:00
something. It was just sort of like I'm
00:13:02
getting an education so that I can be,
00:13:04
you know, a good wife and mother. And um
00:13:07
I would say that was a major probably
00:13:09
the the major failing of my homeschool
00:13:11
experience.
00:13:12
>> I hate this term, but like you know,
00:13:13
people talk about like especially
00:13:15
especially women going to college to
00:13:16
like find a man. Like it's it's to get
00:13:19
married and have kids. It's like, yeah,
00:13:20
okay, there's the degree part of it, but
00:13:22
it doesn't really matter what I major in
00:13:23
because like I'm here to find a guy and
00:13:25
to get married and have kids. Like, was
00:13:27
that kind of
00:13:28
>> Yeah. Yes. Two thumbs. Yes. Um, so when
00:13:32
I was in college, I was planning to work
00:13:34
with um uh non-government organ or
00:13:37
what's the word? NOS's non-government
00:13:39
organizations. Nonprofit. I'm sorry, my
00:13:42
brain is a little slow. Um, I was
00:13:43
planning to work with nonprofits that
00:13:45
fight poverty in international spaces.
00:13:47
And so, um, I was very much planning to
00:13:50
be a missionary. I was going to go
00:13:52
overseas, right? I wasn't thinking, oh,
00:13:54
I need to support myself financially,
00:13:56
like, what's the best career path that I
00:13:58
can do to like actually pay my own
00:14:00
bills. Um, and really in the back of my
00:14:02
mind, I was waiting for someone to ask
00:14:05
me out. I was waiting to find the man
00:14:07
that I was going to marry who was going
00:14:09
to kind of cover all of the bills
00:14:10
financially and like provide for our
00:14:12
household while I immediately started
00:14:14
having children. And uh well it didn't
00:14:17
happen so oh well I guess.
00:14:19
>> Yeah. Sometimes the best laid plans go
00:14:21
right out the window and it's like
00:14:23
>> Yeah. And you're like oh crap what am I
00:14:25
supposed to do now?
00:14:26
>> No that was literally the story of of my
00:14:28
20s. Like the entire decade of my 20s
00:14:31
>> but I'm sure we'll get to that later.
00:14:33
>> Yeah. I want to I want to get into that
00:14:35
for sure. Um I'm I'm curious a little
00:14:37
bit about two things. One, can you talk
00:14:40
a little bit about what Vision Forum is
00:14:42
for for people who don't know? Um
00:14:44
because like even for me like I I still
00:14:46
view it very much as like a catalog of
00:14:48
like boy toys and girl toys and I know
00:14:50
that it's not that it also was
00:14:52
curriculum and things like that but like
00:14:54
that's what I remember as a kid but can
00:14:56
I think you were a little bit more
00:14:57
involved with vision forum stuff than I
00:14:59
was. So what is Vision Forum for those
00:15:01
who don't know?
00:15:02
>> Sure. So Vision Forum was founded I
00:15:05
think in the late 90s and basically it
00:15:07
was one of those like it was a ministry
00:15:10
but also it was a business. So, it was
00:15:13
this glossy catalog that you would get
00:15:15
in the mail and the founder, Doug
00:15:17
Phillips, would arrange his children in
00:15:19
these beautiful, historically accurate
00:15:22
costumes. And the catalog was basically
00:15:25
a model for family life. It was this
00:15:27
aspiration for mothers and fathers to
00:15:30
pick up the mantle of godly womanhood
00:15:32
and biblical manhood. And they sort of
00:15:35
branched off, they branched people off
00:15:38
into these very defined gender roles.
00:15:40
And so if you were a woman, you would
00:15:42
get these beautiful classic flowery
00:15:43
books of poetry extolling the values of
00:15:46
nurturing femininity and you know, oh
00:15:49
the classic val, you know, the classic
00:15:51
value of beauty and women. And then if
00:15:53
you were a man, you would get these um
00:15:56
stories of historic valor and you know,
00:15:59
manly characters that you could aspire
00:16:01
to like Teddy Roosevelt. And then of
00:16:03
course the Boys and Girls toys were sort
00:16:05
of a trickle down of that effect. And
00:16:07
another interesting layer is that um
00:16:10
vision form was explicitly um
00:16:13
dominionist and it had this um Christian
00:16:16
reconstructionist value and this idea
00:16:18
that Christian homeschool families were
00:16:20
going to take America back for Christ.
00:16:22
And so a lot of the material was very
00:16:24
historic um historically focused on you
00:16:28
know figures like the pilgrims um who
00:16:30
came across in the Mayflower and it was
00:16:32
focused on you know George Washington
00:16:34
and Stonewall Jackson and um you know
00:16:36
Robert E.
00:16:37
right civil war values and this idea
00:16:40
that you know Christian homeschool
00:16:42
families they're going to have eight
00:16:43
children that are going to present you
00:16:45
know biblical masculinity and bib
00:16:47
biblical femininity and oh you know this
00:16:49
just kind of like picturesque world and
00:16:52
because of Doug Phillip's aesthetic
00:16:54
vision it was beautiful it was I mean
00:16:57
the catalog was beautiful the products
00:16:59
were beautiful um but it was just kind
00:17:02
of this like
00:17:04
gassy like
00:17:06
Yeah.
00:17:07
>> I don't know if that makes sense.
00:17:09
>> No, it does. It does because like I'm
00:17:10
thinking about like, you know, a lot of
00:17:12
the things that I got from that catalog
00:17:14
very like war centric type things for
00:17:17
boys and like I I was I loved like
00:17:21
Revolutionary War history, Civil War
00:17:23
history. Like I did a whole I did a
00:17:26
whole year of my high school just
00:17:27
studying wars. Um and I know that some
00:17:30
of the Vision Forum like books and stuff
00:17:32
played a role. Um it was not exclusively
00:17:34
that like we did go down other avenues.
00:17:36
So you know there is also kind of that
00:17:38
whitewashing effect of some of those
00:17:40
books unfortunately. Um and you got to
00:17:42
go see searching elsewhere for some more
00:17:45
uh reality based um historical uh
00:17:49
fiction and just biographies and things
00:17:51
like that. But um but yeah, definitely
00:17:53
like this big push for sure of like
00:17:57
yeah, this is what boys are into and
00:17:59
like they like war and they like these
00:18:01
strong male figures and things like
00:18:03
that. And so it's it's just funny
00:18:05
because like I also like really enjoyed
00:18:07
some of the books that like my sister
00:18:08
had too, you know, like um and that were
00:18:12
>> more series.
00:18:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Stuff like that
00:18:16
where it's just like I I don't know like
00:18:18
I just enjoyed stories I think in
00:18:20
general. And so it was like
00:18:21
>> Jonathan Park.
00:18:23
>> Um. Yes. Yeah. Things like that. And so
00:18:26
it's like I I I don't know. It's it's
00:18:28
such a weird thing to think of
00:18:29
everything as being so divided because
00:18:31
also my family like my my parents just
00:18:33
didn't really I don't think
00:18:35
intentionally push it ever to be like
00:18:37
that. And so like we listen like my
00:18:39
sister listened to the stuff I listened
00:18:40
to and and read books that I read and
00:18:42
things like that. um you know, it still
00:18:45
was there definitely some of that like
00:18:47
messaging of like boys will be boys and
00:18:50
girls will be girls and that kind of a
00:18:51
thing. But yeah, um where was I going to
00:18:55
go with this? Um
00:18:56
>> do you have anything to add to that
00:18:58
before I shift us?
00:19:00
>> Um I think an important qualification is
00:19:02
that there were families around us who
00:19:04
like were very bought into vision forum.
00:19:06
One of my friends in particular, she and
00:19:07
her dad would go to the daddy daughter
00:19:11
retreat tea weekend extravaganza and my
00:19:15
parents were never that bought in. Um,
00:19:16
but we still had a lot of the vision for
00:19:18
materials. And I think one of the ways
00:19:20
that homeschool culture often fails is
00:19:23
that parents will bring in material that
00:19:26
they don't filter through or that they
00:19:28
don't discuss with their kids and then
00:19:29
the child. So like I projected the most
00:19:32
intense conservative values onto my
00:19:34
parents without actually talking about
00:19:36
those values with them. So when I was
00:19:38
reading stuff from Anna Sophia and
00:19:40
Elizabeth Bodkin, I was projecting that
00:19:43
onto my father. And especially some of
00:19:44
the weird, I'm going to say semi
00:19:46
incestuous stuff that was coming from
00:19:49
people like Doug Phillips where they're
00:19:50
talking about how, you know, daughters
00:19:52
need to um basically platform their
00:19:54
father as a sort of like pseudo husband
00:19:57
figure. Like that is stuff that I was
00:19:59
ingesting and believing and kind of
00:20:01
accepting, but I wasn't talking about it
00:20:04
with my parents, but they were the ones
00:20:06
who bought me the materials. If that
00:20:08
makes sense.
00:20:09
>> 100%. That makes sense. Cuz there there
00:20:10
are so many books in my life that my
00:20:13
par, you know, I was just going through
00:20:14
something and my parents were like, "Oh,
00:20:16
here's a book that somebody recommended
00:20:18
or that we saw that is for you."
00:20:21
>> They never read the book. They don't
00:20:22
know
00:20:23
>> who, you know, who wrote it. Like it's
00:20:26
funny. Everyone always talks about I
00:20:27
Kiss Dating Goodbye being this big book
00:20:30
that like influenced their dating
00:20:31
culture. Like for me that book was not
00:20:33
as significant as one of his later books
00:20:36
that was about um lust. And I'm blanking
00:20:38
on the name of it.
00:20:39
>> Oh. Um not even a hint.
00:20:41
>> Uh had like the blue cover with like a
00:20:44
little drop of water.
00:20:46
>> Maybe that one. I'm trying to remember,
00:20:48
but um it it had two different names. I
00:20:50
I did when I did my I dating goodbye
00:20:53
series, I had gone through all of his
00:20:54
books and like this book had come out
00:20:56
twice. It was a very short run, but that
00:20:59
book had such a significant impact on
00:21:01
how I viewed like lust and love and and
00:21:05
purity culture in general. And it really
00:21:08
now talking about it with my parents,
00:21:10
they're like, "You believed what?" You
00:21:12
know, and I'm like, "You didn't read
00:21:14
this book before you gave it to me."
00:21:15
Right? And so, um,
00:21:17
>> here's the material.
00:21:19
>> Exactly. And so like to your point, I
00:21:21
think
00:21:23
as a parent, I'm sure there's so much
00:21:25
you have to like filter through on a
00:21:27
daily basis just in general that like
00:21:30
you tack on like having eight kids. You
00:21:32
tack on then also educating them in the
00:21:35
home. You tack on having the
00:21:37
responsibilities of like dinner's got to
00:21:38
be on the table and and chores have to
00:21:40
be done and all these different things.
00:21:42
It is is going to be impossible to
00:21:44
filter through everything,
00:21:46
but you do have a a responsibility to
00:21:48
like be able to have those conversations
00:21:51
with your kids around like, you know,
00:21:54
young Lydia should have been should have
00:21:55
felt comfortable to go to her parents
00:21:56
and say, "Hey, like I'm reading this
00:21:58
book. This is what it's saying." You
00:21:59
know, and then be like, "Whoa, whoa,
00:22:00
whoa, whoa, whoa. What's going on here?"
00:22:04
>> Yeah. I'm um I wanted to ask before we
00:22:08
shift into kind of some of the later
00:22:10
years, but like you talked about
00:22:12
homeschool community being somewhat big
00:22:14
and being influential in your parents
00:22:16
starting to homeschool. And so one of
00:22:18
the big things with homeschooling is
00:22:20
always this like isolation and like
00:22:21
antisocialization type of thing, but
00:22:24
you're talking about growing up in a
00:22:25
church where homeschool kids were it
00:22:27
seems like a dime a dozen. Um and so
00:22:30
like did you have community? Did you
00:22:33
guys do co-ops? Did you have um some
00:22:37
type of outlet where it was like, okay,
00:22:38
we're outside of the house now. We h we
00:22:40
have friends like outside of my siblings
00:22:42
kind of a thing.
00:22:43
>> That's a great question. I have friends.
00:22:46
Um so, um when I was 12, we joined a
00:22:49
homeschool co-op and up to that point,
00:22:51
we had been part of a local homeschool
00:22:52
group, which was basically like an
00:22:54
affiliate, an association of homeschool
00:22:56
families in the area. And I wish I knew
00:22:59
I, you know, I was going through my
00:23:00
email recently and I was trying to find
00:23:02
like old emails and trying to find some
00:23:04
kind of roster because I don't remember
00:23:05
how many families it was. I want to say
00:23:09
maybe 40 or 50 families in the area that
00:23:13
were part of this homeschool group. And
00:23:14
they would plan, you know, like there
00:23:16
would be like a skate day where, you
00:23:18
know, every every year there would be
00:23:20
like the yearly, you know, we're all
00:23:21
going to go to the skate rink, we're all
00:23:22
going to roll, you know, roller skate
00:23:24
together. Um, they would also plan field
00:23:26
trips. there would be a yearly talent
00:23:27
show. Um but like it wasn't necessarily
00:23:30
like structured educationally um you
00:23:33
know like a co-op. So then when I was 12
00:23:35
we joined a co-op and um that was great.
00:23:38
I was thrilled. Um I was in seventh
00:23:40
grade and so I was like oh my gosh this
00:23:42
is going to feel like going to school. I
00:23:44
also remember that I bought a backpack
00:23:45
for the first time which I was like oh
00:23:47
my god this is incredible. I have a
00:23:49
backpack. Um, and so, you know, it would
00:23:52
it would meet once a week and again, I
00:23:55
mean, better than nothing. Um, but I
00:23:57
think that our family really, um,
00:24:02
like my parents really saw co-op and
00:24:04
church as our social events. So, if we
00:24:08
got to see our friends at co-op, that
00:24:09
was they were like, "Oh, you've had time
00:24:11
with your peers." Um, and then me and my
00:24:13
siblings also took music lessons, which
00:24:15
was something that my parents
00:24:16
prioritized. So, we would usually we
00:24:18
would leave the house for we would leave
00:24:19
the house for music lessons and then we
00:24:21
would leave the house to go to co-op and
00:24:23
co-op would be like an all day thing and
00:24:25
then, you know, Sunday we would go to
00:24:26
church. Um, and so I think because there
00:24:30
were so many of us, they really didn't
00:24:31
have the capacity to help us facilitate
00:24:33
like one-on-one friendships. And also
00:24:35
just the number of people that we
00:24:37
actually had access to was pretty low.
00:24:39
And so it's difficult because I know
00:24:41
that there are homeschoolers who
00:24:42
literally are just completely isolated.
00:24:44
like they're at home, they're not going
00:24:46
to the library, they go to church,
00:24:47
they're not part of co-ops. And so like
00:24:49
we were not as isolated as some of the
00:24:52
like horror stories that I've heard. Um
00:24:55
but most of our peer time was really
00:24:57
only in these kind of structured group
00:24:59
activities. And I know people will say
00:25:00
like, well, what do you think public
00:25:02
education is? Like public education is
00:25:04
like a structured, you know, a
00:25:06
structured peer activity. Um but like
00:25:09
because there were so many of us, they
00:25:10
really couldn't um you know, like there
00:25:13
weren't friend dates. There weren't
00:25:14
playg groups, there weren't, you know,
00:25:16
especially when I was younger. I
00:25:17
remember um you know being in elementary
00:25:19
school and really at that point we
00:25:22
weren't part of a co-op and so any um
00:25:25
time that I had with friends like I had
00:25:27
to initiate. It wasn't something that my
00:25:29
parents were sort of helping to manage
00:25:30
if that makes sense.
00:25:32
>> I don't know. I'm kind of getting lost
00:25:33
in my in my thoughts here. Does that
00:25:34
does that answer your question?
00:25:36
>> That totally does because I think there
00:25:37
there's like the way I kind of see it is
00:25:40
like there is the homeschool isolation,
00:25:42
right? of like you your family genuinely
00:25:45
locks themselves away in a cabin in the
00:25:46
woods type of situation and you go to
00:25:48
town, you know, it's like Little House
00:25:50
on the Prairie, you go to town once a
00:25:51
month to go to Costco.
00:25:53
>> Yeah, exactly.
00:25:54
>> Um, and then I feel like there's kind of
00:25:56
the situation like you're talking about
00:25:57
where it's like we are involved in with
00:26:00
other families in these situations. And
00:26:02
so our kids do know how to socialize and
00:26:04
they have friends quote unquote friends,
00:26:07
but there's not necessarily like you
00:26:08
were saying the one-on-one like
00:26:10
>> my best friend is coming over and we're
00:26:12
having a sleepover or they're coming for
00:26:14
dinner or I'm going to their house and
00:26:15
those types of things.
00:26:16
>> And then there is I think a little bit
00:26:19
and and public school can be like that
00:26:21
too. Um, but and then I think there are
00:26:23
the deeper friendships of like the
00:26:25
parents then facilitating like, hey, our
00:26:27
kids should have a playd date and they
00:26:28
should be one-on-one. And that's how you
00:26:30
build like the best friend, you know, or
00:26:33
you build your close-knit group. And so
00:26:35
it's like, you know, I I see all three
00:26:37
of those playing out in the homeschool
00:26:39
world. And it's just kind of different
00:26:41
per person. And so even in like the
00:26:43
situation like you had, it's like I
00:26:44
still view that as like an isolating
00:26:46
experience to some. And um because you
00:26:50
maybe don't have those friends that like
00:26:51
I still have my friends that I'm like
00:26:53
we've been best friends since
00:26:55
>> I don't know we were like 12 kind of a
00:26:57
thing, you know, and like we still talk
00:26:58
to this day. Um but I have parents who
00:27:02
maybe helped facilitate some of those
00:27:04
things that actually made that happen,
00:27:05
right? And encouraged like
00:27:07
>> you know if I didn't see my buddy Ben at
00:27:09
least once a week
00:27:11
>> one-on-one like that was like that was a
00:27:13
bad week, you know, um kind of a thing.
00:27:15
And so there is kind of
00:27:17
>> I think that there was just a disconnect
00:27:19
between like what my parents thought was
00:27:22
socialization and what we really needed
00:27:25
as socialization. I remember one
00:27:27
specific conversation where I think I
00:27:29
was in high school, my brother was also
00:27:30
in high school and my brother was
00:27:33
saying, "Hey mom, you know, such and
00:27:35
such person is having a birthday party.
00:27:37
I really want to go. I haven't seen him
00:27:38
for a long time." And my mom said, "You
00:27:41
just saw him at co-op." And you know, so
00:27:44
there's kind of this it's like, oh, if
00:27:46
you had facetime with a person, then
00:27:49
that is quality socialization time.
00:27:51
Well, that's quality hang time. And you
00:27:53
know, I think that my parents like they
00:27:55
were just being pulled in so many
00:27:56
different directions that they just, you
00:27:58
know, like they didn't have the capacity
00:28:00
to be like, "Okay, I'm going to drive
00:28:01
you here. I'm going to drive you here."
00:28:02
Um because I remember a big a big factor
00:28:05
in whether or not we got to see people
00:28:06
and hang out with them was that we had
00:28:07
to arrange our own rides because we were
00:28:09
like 45 minutes away from most of the
00:28:11
people that we were friends with and
00:28:12
they were too. So like some of our
00:28:14
friends we were literally an hour
00:28:16
driving distance from them and you know
00:28:18
like the the the actual practical
00:28:21
details of like is your mom going to
00:28:23
pick them up? Am I going to pick them
00:28:24
up? Like everything had to be
00:28:25
coordinated in a way that was like you
00:28:28
know feasible for my parents. They just
00:28:32
they couldn't handle it.
00:28:33
>> Yeah. I mean, I think about like, you
00:28:35
know, like I said, I'm I'm one of two.
00:28:38
So, like my parents had a much easier
00:28:39
time, I think, being able to be like,
00:28:42
"Oh, yeah, like Jacob can go do this or,
00:28:44
you know, my sister Madison, she can go
00:28:46
do this thing, you know, and it's easy.
00:28:48
We can drive them to that or whatever."
00:28:49
And then there was
00:28:51
>> I remember with certain families cuz I
00:28:53
had friends who were, you know, one of
00:28:54
12 kids, one of like you, seven kids,
00:28:57
you know, and things like that. There
00:28:58
was a lot of work that even for me I was
00:29:01
like this shouldn't be this this hard to
00:29:03
like figure out with you and they're
00:29:04
like no you don't understand like we
00:29:05
have to coordinate a ride I don't have a
00:29:07
license like or or even if they do have
00:29:09
a license like there's only so many cars
00:29:11
at the house like we have to you know
00:29:13
work all this out and I'm like oh my
00:29:14
gosh like your life must be a living
00:29:17
nightmare because once I got once I
00:29:18
turned 16 I had a car I had access to a
00:29:21
car and like in you know and we were a
00:29:24
homeschooled family so that meant my mom
00:29:25
didn't go everywhere all the time so
00:29:27
even if like my car was one of the cars
00:29:29
was down like there was usually some way
00:29:31
to get somewhere. We also lived biking
00:29:33
distance to some people, you know,
00:29:35
things like that. So, I mean it there's
00:29:36
a lot of factors that go into it, but
00:29:39
>> I definitely I I think I see I I've seen
00:29:42
some of what you're talking about play
00:29:44
out and some of my friends. Um, the
00:29:47
other question I had kind of about like
00:29:48
the big family thing and and this is
00:29:51
something I've seen play out
00:29:53
>> with other people but not everybody is
00:29:56
the idea that as the older siblings that
00:29:59
the older siblings take roles and
00:30:01
responsibility of raising the younger
00:30:02
siblings and was your family at all like
00:30:05
that or did you guys play a role in
00:30:08
being maybe teacher or like mom dad in
00:30:11
any situations?
00:30:13
>> Yes. Yes.
00:30:15
very much so. Um, so I would say that I
00:30:20
naturally tended to be more nurturing. I
00:30:22
naturally like my personality tended to
00:30:24
be more motherly. And so with my
00:30:26
siblings, like it was very easy for me
00:30:28
to fall into this role of like caretaker
00:30:30
and sort of like second mother and this
00:30:33
nurturing person. And then when I got
00:30:36
into high school and I was reading stuff
00:30:37
from vision forum and it was encouraging
00:30:40
this idea that like oh as a daughter you
00:30:42
know your role is to support your
00:30:44
parents' vision and to support the home.
00:30:46
And it sort of became this ideological
00:30:49
framework for the way that I'd already
00:30:51
been functioning in my family. And you
00:30:54
know, again, I think that oldest
00:30:55
daughters tend to have um more
00:30:58
responsible personalities or more
00:30:59
responsible um like they tend to have
00:31:02
this personality that's sort of this
00:31:03
like um mature for their age, you know,
00:31:06
advanced in years. And so I think that I
00:31:09
probably would have filled that role
00:31:11
even if I didn't have six younger
00:31:13
siblings. Like if id only had two
00:31:14
siblings, I probably still would have
00:31:16
been sort of like a motherly nurturing
00:31:18
pos, you know, person. Um, but being
00:31:21
within the space of quiverful ideology
00:31:24
and being the oldest of seven really
00:31:27
really just kind of like amplified that
00:31:28
position for me and it's something that
00:31:30
I got really positive feedback for. Like
00:31:32
people would ask my mom, this is so
00:31:36
uncomfortable for me to think about now.
00:31:38
Um, but people would ask my mom like,
00:31:39
"Oh my goodness, like Lydia is so
00:31:41
obedient and she's so helpful. Like what
00:31:43
did you do as a parent to make her that
00:31:46
way?" and um you know so it's kind of
00:31:50
like this I'm I can't think of the right
00:31:51
phrase or the right word but it was sort
00:31:53
of this like um positive like
00:31:56
self-fulfilling
00:31:58
um situation I guess like it just kind
00:32:00
of I get positive feedback for something
00:32:02
that I'm already naturally inclined to
00:32:04
do and then of course you know I'm
00:32:06
reading books
00:32:08
>> that encourage me to be you know in this
00:32:10
role um so yeah I mean that was it was
00:32:13
very true of my experience um
00:32:15
>> it feeds itself and then you you just
00:32:17
continue to do the same thing because
00:32:19
you're like, "Oh, I'm getting positive
00:32:20
feedback, so
00:32:22
>> I'll lean in heavier to that." I think
00:32:24
naturally as as oldest kids, like we
00:32:26
have that like protective of younger
00:32:29
siblings type scenario. Like I even see
00:32:31
it within like just my family in
00:32:33
general. I'm also like the oldest
00:32:34
grandson. Like I like with my cousins
00:32:36
like there is this weird role of
00:32:38
responsibility I think we sometimes put
00:32:40
on ourselves of like
00:32:41
>> I'm the leader of this group. And so to
00:32:43
your point, then you feed that with the
00:32:46
other side of it of like, oh well, we
00:32:48
also need you to do all of these, you
00:32:49
know, motherly activities is when you
00:32:51
should be practicing those things. Like,
00:32:54
>> you know, I also had people tell me
00:32:56
like, oh, you're such an obedient kid.
00:32:57
And I'm like, I mean, I guess like I
00:33:01
don't know. Like I thought I was a bad
00:33:02
kid half the time,
00:33:04
>> you know? But I knew all of the things
00:33:06
that I was like the rules I was breaking
00:33:07
and getting away with. Um, but like you
00:33:10
know to everyone else it's like you look
00:33:12
like the perfect little angel, right?
00:33:14
And they're wanting their kids to be the
00:33:15
same and it's like
00:33:17
>> years of therapy later you're like was
00:33:20
that actually good for me?
00:33:21
>> Yeah, exactly. So, I want to shift a
00:33:24
little bit into like let's talk about
00:33:25
college and adulthood and like coming
00:33:27
out of
00:33:28
>> that scenario because I think launching
00:33:31
into the real world is like is a culture
00:33:35
shock for a lot of homesooled kids and
00:33:37
especially like something that I've seen
00:33:39
repeatedly happen for people is a little
00:33:42
bit of like a getting stuck in the
00:33:44
college years of like not fully knowing
00:33:47
how to step outside of the homeschool
00:33:49
world. And so it's like one leg one leg
00:33:51
one leg in one leg out kind of a
00:33:53
situation and sometimes that like bubble
00:33:55
pops later for them. And so I'm curious
00:33:58
just like your experience of like you
00:34:00
said you went to college so like was
00:34:01
that a culture shock? Like how was how
00:34:03
was that experience for you?
00:34:05
>> So just right off the bat I'm grateful
00:34:07
that I went to school because I mean I
00:34:09
was reading again I was reading material
00:34:11
that did not value higher education for
00:34:13
women. And so I, you know, I think if my
00:34:16
parents had wanted me to be a
00:34:18
stay-at-home daughter and not go to
00:34:19
college and continue living at home, I
00:34:21
would have been open to that idea. And
00:34:23
so I'm really grateful. I went to Grove
00:34:25
City College, which is a small
00:34:26
conservative liberal arts school north
00:34:28
of Pittsburgh. And what's really funny
00:34:31
to me is that I experienced so much
00:34:33
culture shock even though I was going to
00:34:36
an extremely conservative Christian
00:34:37
school. And uh, you know, so that just
00:34:40
says a lot about my experience within
00:34:42
homeschooling. um you know because I had
00:34:44
never been surrounded by my peers
00:34:46
before. I had never been surrounded by
00:34:47
this many people who were my same age
00:34:49
and I had no idea how to relate to them.
00:34:51
Um I mean I didn't have an iPod. It you
00:34:53
know I started school in 2009. Um I did
00:34:56
a gap year between when I graduated high
00:34:58
school and then when I started school um
00:35:00
because I did like a a short ministry
00:35:02
internship of course. Uh but yeah I mean
00:35:05
I didn't have an iPod. Um I really did
00:35:08
not know how to relate to my peers. I
00:35:09
didn't know how to build friendships
00:35:10
with women my own age. much less talk to
00:35:13
guys my own age. Um I couldn't relate to
00:35:16
any of their cultural touch points. The
00:35:18
clothes that I was wearing were um
00:35:21
pretty out ofd like they were extremely
00:35:24
modest. And so it was I mean it was it
00:35:27
was difficult. It was very difficult. Um
00:35:30
I I mean I really shudder to think about
00:35:31
what would have happened if I had gone
00:35:33
to like a big state school
00:35:36
uh with with kids who were admittedly
00:35:38
more you know like worldly and secular.
00:35:41
Um, I think if I'd gone to a secular
00:35:43
school, it probably would have helped
00:35:45
accelerate my homeschool deconstruction.
00:35:47
So, in some ways, I wish that I had gone
00:35:49
to, you know, more of a like a standard
00:35:52
like secular school. Um, but it really,
00:35:55
I mean, I think academically I was
00:35:57
prepared. Um, unfortunately, my math
00:36:00
education became a huge a huge issue.
00:36:03
And um I mean that would be another
00:36:05
story for another time. But overall, I
00:36:07
mean I did well academically, but
00:36:09
socially it just it was a huge like it
00:36:12
was like I don't know how to do this. I
00:36:13
don't know. This is all new to me. Um
00:36:16
but I really really wanted like I
00:36:18
desperately wanted to know how to
00:36:21
connect with people to learn how to fit
00:36:22
in. I almost felt like I was a fish in a
00:36:25
fishbowl and the fishbowl is like in the
00:36:27
ocean but the barrier there's like this
00:36:29
clear barrier and I was like I know
00:36:31
there's a barrier but I don't know how
00:36:33
to break through it and I want to feel
00:36:35
normal and I want to relate to people
00:36:37
but there's just I mean there were so
00:36:38
many things at that point that at that
00:36:40
point I did not know that I had
00:36:42
homeschool trauma like I couldn't name
00:36:44
that it was trauma. I didn't know the
00:36:46
the aspects of the trauma. Um and so
00:36:49
just I mean it was it was really
00:36:51
difficult. Yeah, like I like you, I also
00:36:54
I went to conservative Christian college
00:36:56
and so like it was kind of this like
00:36:58
stepping stone I feel like into the real
00:37:01
world to some degree because there was
00:37:03
culture shock there. Um I was running
00:37:05
into people and being like you believe
00:37:08
what you watch what like your parents
00:37:10
let you watch Harry Potter like that's
00:37:11
crazy. Um, yeah, stuff like that, like,
00:37:15
you know, they they let you listen to
00:37:16
this type of music, like, you know, just
00:37:18
insane stuff that is like not even it's
00:37:21
not bad. It's just it is what it is. And
00:37:23
so I I had a buddy on the show and we
00:37:26
were talking about how it was very much
00:37:28
like we took the youth group culture
00:37:30
that we had grown up in and just put
00:37:33
that in college and that's what we
00:37:35
stepped into. And so it was a little bit
00:37:37
looser cuz we didn't have the parental
00:37:38
guidance aspect of it. And then we got
00:37:41
into the real world and we were like
00:37:42
that's when the bubble really burst for
00:37:44
us. And so
00:37:46
>> I'm totally relating to you talking
00:37:48
about being that fish in the fishbowl in
00:37:50
in the pond and having to figure out
00:37:51
like there's an opening right above you.
00:37:53
You just have to swim up like but not
00:37:55
really knowing how to do that. Right.
00:37:58
And so I'm curious because like
00:38:00
something I've heard a lot of people
00:38:01
talk about is like they you know it's
00:38:03
almost like um uh you have to watch what
00:38:08
everyone else is doing and then just
00:38:09
start to like mimic, right? And you
00:38:10
start to like so so I'm curious like for
00:38:13
you was there anything that you were
00:38:14
like okay I'm like I'm seeing all these
00:38:16
people do this or I'm hearing this. I
00:38:18
got to like go educate myself on this
00:38:20
like thing and like okay that okay now
00:38:23
I've taken that step now. Okay, now I
00:38:25
got to go educate myself on this thing.
00:38:26
Was there stuff like that in college
00:38:27
that you were like, "Okay, now I'm I'm
00:38:29
starting to get my grasp on things."
00:38:31
>> So, that was not my experience in
00:38:33
college. Um, unfortunately, I think I
00:38:35
still had a lot of um internal
00:38:38
commitments to living a set aart
00:38:41
lifestyle and, you know, pursuing
00:38:43
godliness. And so, I really I mean, I
00:38:45
really didn't change at all in college
00:38:47
just because I didn't feel permission to
00:38:49
and I also didn't know how to. And the
00:38:52
group of friends that I was part of in
00:38:53
college was just as conservative as I
00:38:55
was and in many ways even more
00:38:57
conservative. Um, and so I I really
00:39:01
didn't start to break away from some of
00:39:02
the like I'm going to say I'm going to
00:39:04
describe it as um I felt like I had a
00:39:08
homeschool mom on my shoulder. Like you
00:39:10
know how people have like the angel and
00:39:11
the devil? Like all through my 20s, I
00:39:13
felt like I had this homeschool mom on
00:39:14
my shoulder who was judging me and
00:39:16
judging my decisions and like judging
00:39:18
the fact that I even wanted to like be
00:39:20
more secular or even present as more
00:39:22
worldly. So, I really didn't start to
00:39:24
change until my late 20s um if I'm being
00:39:26
honest. But I think that college was the
00:39:28
space where I began to realize that, oh,
00:39:30
you know what? All of these kids that
00:39:32
went to public school, they love God.
00:39:34
They are not terrible people.
00:39:36
Um, oh my goodness, like this person is
00:39:38
a better student than I am and they went
00:39:40
to public school. It really, you know,
00:39:42
it really I would say that college was a
00:39:44
space where I began to challenge the
00:39:46
notion of my specialness as a
00:39:48
homeschooler. Um, that I was God's gift
00:39:50
to the world because I'd been
00:39:52
homeschooled. It was sort of like the
00:39:54
beginning, I guess. Um, but college was
00:39:57
really not this place where I became a
00:39:59
completely different person. I mean,
00:40:00
it's sort of it's there was like the
00:40:02
tiniest little crack,
00:40:04
>> right? Uh but it wasn't this huge
00:40:06
transformation unfortunately. So, what
00:40:09
was that thing then that kind of got you
00:40:10
to a place where you're like, "Okay,
00:40:11
like now I'm out." Like, I say that like
00:40:16
I Yeah, I say that in like in the sense
00:40:19
of like I think regardless of like
00:40:21
whatever your your end goal ends up
00:40:24
being, there is this like just launching
00:40:26
into adulthood where it's like we we
00:40:28
take on
00:40:30
>> this is my belief system now. This is my
00:40:32
whatever, right? And so where was that
00:40:34
for you? You're talking about like 20
00:40:36
mid 20s. like what was that catalyst for
00:40:38
like that moment where you're like okay
00:40:40
like I am my own person now.
00:40:42
>> Yeah. So the moment for me was um
00:40:46
sitting on the floor of a basement
00:40:47
apartment. Um I was 25 and I had just
00:40:51
moved out of my parents house and um so
00:40:54
the nutshell version of my early 20s is
00:40:57
that I had planned to be a missionary. I
00:40:59
was going to move overseas and serve the
00:41:00
Lord. I was raising support to be a
00:41:03
missionary and I was living with my
00:41:04
parents and my siblings and um I really
00:41:07
hadn't started to separate and
00:41:09
thankfully I had a good friend at church
00:41:11
who also had been homeschooled also
00:41:13
oldest of of I think eight children and
00:41:15
she saw how much I was struggling and
00:41:17
she said Lydia if you want to move out
00:41:18
of your parents house you can come and
00:41:19
live with me and so she really threw me
00:41:22
a lifeline and gave me space to start to
00:41:24
physically separate from my family and
00:41:26
also to emotionally separate from my
00:41:28
family um because in many ways I was
00:41:30
very codependent on my parents and I was
00:41:32
very wrapped up in this oldest daughter
00:41:35
role, right? This obedient, cheerful
00:41:37
oldest daughter who's waiting for a
00:41:38
husband. And so, you know, I was in I
00:41:42
was 25 and I was just realizing I have
00:41:44
no idea what I'm doing with my life
00:41:46
apart from um you know, trying to make
00:41:49
the make a difference for God and
00:41:50
waiting for a husband and pursuing this
00:41:53
conservative vision of what a biblical
00:41:55
woman is supposed to look like. And
00:41:56
that's really when I started to start to
00:41:58
think through like, oh my goodness, I
00:42:01
need to find a career path. I need to
00:42:02
figure out how to financially provide
00:42:04
for myself. I need to think about like,
00:42:06
why am I wearing what am I what I'm
00:42:07
wearing? Um why am I relating to the
00:42:10
world? Um you know, like why am I
00:42:12
viewing secular things with suspicion?
00:42:14
And um that's really when I began to
00:42:16
question just like why why is my
00:42:19
internal construct still formed by
00:42:21
people like Doug Phillips or Michael and
00:42:24
Debbie Pearl? Do I need to to kind of
00:42:27
filter all of my decisions through this
00:42:29
lens of, you know, John Piper and RC
00:42:32
Sproul and all of these people that have
00:42:34
been platformed is like, oh, this is the
00:42:36
biblical path that you are supposed to
00:42:38
follow. Um, and I will say I'm still a
00:42:41
Christian. Um, but I'm kind of shocked
00:42:44
by that because I went through a long
00:42:47
deconstruction phase of just really
00:42:49
wrestling with like all of the pieces
00:42:52
that had shaped my life up to that point
00:42:54
and really struggling with like what's
00:42:56
going to be left after I go through this
00:42:58
process of sort of sorting through my
00:43:00
internal beliefs and my internal um,
00:43:03
systems.
00:43:04
>> You said something there that really
00:43:06
struck me and that was like viewing
00:43:08
everything through the filter of someone
00:43:10
else and that was
00:43:12
for me in my deconstruction that was
00:43:14
like very similar and like I ended up
00:43:17
for a while where I was like okay I'm
00:43:19
still Christian and then eventually now
00:43:20
I'm agnostic but like
00:43:22
>> it was one of those like processes where
00:43:24
like all I had to take out the people
00:43:26
like Sproul I had to take out the people
00:43:28
like Francis Chan I had to take out all
00:43:30
of those voices and be like okay
00:43:32
>> I'm going to go right to the Bible like
00:43:34
we're just going to go straight there
00:43:36
>> and what do I think about these types of
00:43:38
things and so that was
00:43:40
>> I'm so thankful that I had enough people
00:43:42
in my life who who kept telling me
00:43:44
that's what you have to do because
00:43:46
that's how you shape who you
00:43:47
>> become do you believe this is this where
00:43:50
where does how does this make you feel
00:43:52
about like ethics and morality where
00:43:54
does it make you feel about politics
00:43:56
like you know you you trust you start to
00:43:58
trust your gut more than you trust other
00:44:00
people
00:44:00
>> yes
00:44:01
>> and that's a powerful moment you know
00:44:04
especially in your 20s it's a lot it's a
00:44:06
lot to unpack that and for the first
00:44:08
time feel like holy crap that play I'm
00:44:12
like I have to make all these decisions
00:44:14
for myself and like am I going to make
00:44:16
the right decision you know because I
00:44:18
think a lot of times in the religious
00:44:19
spaces we get taught that like we are
00:44:22
incapable of making our own decisions
00:44:25
and so we have to trust this these
00:44:27
figures these leadership figures and so
00:44:29
um
00:44:30
>> that is a whole rabbit hole in and of
00:44:32
itself that
00:44:33
>> oh yeah
00:44:34
>> you know years of the years of therapy
00:44:36
and years of um you know us unpackaging
00:44:38
those things like we could I'm sure go
00:44:40
for hours on on that. But I do want to
00:44:43
shout out because the reason that I
00:44:46
reached out to you even in the first
00:44:47
place was because of Tik Tok and you
00:44:50
sharing your stories of deconstructing
00:44:53
and being a homeschool kid and crazy
00:44:56
stuff that had happened and like stuff
00:44:58
that I was like, "Oh, that's normal.
00:44:59
That's a normal home school experience."
00:45:01
And you being like, "Is this normal?"
00:45:03
Um,
00:45:04
and so I want to give you a minute like
00:45:06
one shout out, you know, where people
00:45:08
can follow you, but also like how did
00:45:11
you get to the point where you went,
00:45:12
"Okay, I'm going to start I want to
00:45:13
start telling these stories on the
00:45:14
internet."
00:45:15
>> Oh, yeah. So, my therapist actually um
00:45:19
when I was 30, I realized I was dealing
00:45:21
with some things that I couldn't fix
00:45:23
myself. And I found a really wonderful
00:45:25
therapist who is very knowledgeable
00:45:27
about funy culture and homeschooling
00:45:29
culture and the dynamics of, you know,
00:45:31
being in a large family as an oldest
00:45:33
daughter. And so she really began to
00:45:35
help me unpack some of those things. And
00:45:37
at one point she encouraged me to start
00:45:39
a Tik Tok. And I was like, "The Chinese
00:45:42
dancing app?" And she's like, "Yeah."
00:45:45
And um so honestly without her
00:45:48
encouragement, I probably would have
00:45:50
never started a Tik Tok. Um, and I
00:45:53
started it not with the intention of I
00:45:55
really had no intention of doing
00:45:58
anything with it. I just kind of was
00:45:59
randomly posting, but as I started to be
00:46:01
more vulnerable and share stories about
00:46:03
homeschooling and about purity culture
00:46:05
and about, you know, saving your first
00:46:07
kids for marriage and, you know, growing
00:46:09
up with five gallon buckets of wheat
00:46:11
berries. um other people started to
00:46:13
comment and it you know over time it
00:46:16
kind of grew into this space where I
00:46:18
went oh my god there are so many people
00:46:21
who've had the same funy homeschool
00:46:23
experience and of course you know we
00:46:25
have a second Trump administration and
00:46:27
so this is cracking up all of these new
00:46:29
issues around Christian nationalism and
00:46:32
people like Doug Wilson now have a
00:46:34
national platform and so there are so
00:46:36
many people who were talking about what
00:46:38
it means to be homeschooled or what
00:46:39
their experience was with homeschooling
00:46:41
there are, you know, new homeschool moms
00:46:44
who are, you know, choosing to
00:46:46
homeschool because they think that their
00:46:47
kids are going to save America for
00:46:48
Christ. And um it's just been really
00:46:52
fascinating to me and kind of shocking
00:46:55
because again, I always thought that my
00:46:58
homeschool experience was something that
00:47:00
I would have to heal from as an
00:47:01
individual. Um because, you know, no one
00:47:04
has this experience. It was just me. And
00:47:06
lo and behold, it actually was not just
00:47:08
me. It's actually like probably like
00:47:10
tens of thousands of people um across
00:47:13
the US and even from different
00:47:15
generations, right? It's like I'm a
00:47:16
millennial, but like there are also
00:47:18
people who are Gen Z who have had the
00:47:19
same experience and um it's I mean I'm
00:47:23
just so grateful because I think that
00:47:25
Tik Tok has helped me heal as an
00:47:27
individual and then also being able to
00:47:28
share my story and help other people
00:47:30
articulate and validate their
00:47:32
experiences. It feels like it um you
00:47:36
know, obviously I wish that I hadn't
00:47:37
experienced the homeschool trauma, but
00:47:39
being able to help other people in their
00:47:41
process seems to sort of like validate
00:47:44
it a little bit. I don't I don't know if
00:47:46
that makes sense.
00:47:47
>> No, I you know, it's funny. I I uh the
00:47:50
day of recording this, yesterday was day
00:47:52
of the homeschool child. I don't know if
00:47:53
you knew that this was the holiday or
00:47:55
not. I found out this in March. Um but
00:47:58
uh I was fortunate enough I have a
00:48:00
conversation with Stephan Merryill Block
00:48:02
who just wrote the book Homeschooled
00:48:04
>> and um for and we we did a a talk for
00:48:07
the Coalition of Responsible Home
00:48:09
Education and I shout them out all the
00:48:10
time on the show.
00:48:12
>> Great organization. Go follow them.
00:48:13
They're
00:48:14
>> I always say they're the antithesis of
00:48:16
HSLDA. They're like the opposite. Um but
00:48:19
um you know they they don't love that I
00:48:21
say that but
00:48:22
>> but they they also help shape
00:48:24
legislation that will help homeschool
00:48:26
kids. Anyway, we were having this
00:48:28
conversation and we were talking about
00:48:29
the fact that like one of the things
00:48:31
that sharing our stories gets to do is
00:48:35
one it can heal our traumas because like
00:48:38
you were saying we're not alone. There
00:48:40
are tens of thousands of us out there
00:48:43
from the 70s to today who are starting
00:48:46
to talk more openly about the things
00:48:48
that we went through, the good, the bad,
00:48:49
and the ugly of it. And so, but what
00:48:52
that does is it gives a voice to the
00:48:55
fact that like something probably needs
00:48:57
to change. And the fact that so many
00:48:59
people are speaking up about it, that's
00:49:01
a good thing because that's how change
00:49:03
is going to happen, right? You have to
00:49:05
blow the whistle on it to some degree
00:49:07
and say, "This is what's working. and
00:49:09
this is what's not working and we need
00:49:11
to shape things to be better so that the
00:49:13
future generations of homesooled kids
00:49:16
don't have to go through the bad stuff
00:49:17
that we went through. They can but they
00:49:19
can experience the fun stuff. They can
00:49:20
experience the good because mixed in
00:49:22
with all of that craziness. There are
00:49:24
those funny moments of like doing
00:49:26
theater in somebody's backyard or like
00:49:28
goofing off with your sibling, right?
00:49:30
And like you know driving mom crazy to
00:49:33
some degree. Like there is like there is
00:49:35
fun moments mixed in with all of that
00:49:37
chaos. So, I applaud you for like
00:49:40
telling your story because it's not an
00:49:41
easy thing to do and it it opens you up
00:49:44
to a lot of criticism, but it also opens
00:49:46
you up to a lot of like support and a
00:49:48
lot of like, hey, that's also me. You
00:49:50
are seeing like, you know,
00:49:51
>> you're amazing.
00:49:53
>> Yeah, exactly. So, what is your TikTok
00:49:55
account? Where can people where should
00:49:57
people go to follow you?
00:49:58
>> Sure. So, my handle is 90s homeschooler.
00:50:01
So, it's just the number 90s
00:50:04
homeschooler. And um yeah, that's my
00:50:06
handle, so you can find me online. I'm
00:50:09
trying to build more of a platform. I'm
00:50:10
trying to branch out more. I do have an
00:50:12
Instagram account, but it actually
00:50:14
doesn't have any content on it yet. Um
00:50:15
but yes, I'm I'm on Tik Tok.
00:50:18
>> Okay, cool. Well, go follow Lydia on Tik
00:50:20
Tok. Um and if you don't have Tik Tok,
00:50:22
enjoy her episode here, and it will be
00:50:24
updated as as she launches new things
00:50:26
and gets more stuff on other platforms.
00:50:28
So, we'll make sure that the the show
00:50:30
notes update to see that. I want to
00:50:32
before we go, something that I talk
00:50:35
a lot sometimes I something I ask a lot
00:50:37
on the show is like someone's coming to
00:50:39
you now and they're saying I'm thinking
00:50:40
about homeschooling my kid or I know you
00:50:43
have a kid like I'm sure that's also
00:50:45
maybe a question you're maybe it's not a
00:50:46
question maybe it's a question you've
00:50:47
already answered um but like what are
00:50:50
your thoughts on like the current
00:50:52
landscape of homeschooling would you do
00:50:54
it would you recommend it for people
00:50:56
>> how do you feel about it what are you
00:50:57
saying to people
00:50:59
>> that's a great question so I'm not
00:51:01
totally opposed to homeschooling I think
00:51:02
that the decision to homeschool has to
00:51:04
be made by each individual family. I
00:51:06
would say the biggest dangers to
00:51:08
homeschooling are Christian nationalism,
00:51:10
purity culture, patriarchy, and
00:51:12
quiverful ideology. And so, if you're
00:51:14
able to homeschool and you're able to
00:51:16
sort of be aware of those influences
00:51:18
within homeschool spaces, then you are
00:51:20
probably 10 steps ahead of like where my
00:51:23
parents were or maybe where your parents
00:51:24
were. Um, and really, I mean, the
00:51:26
individual homeschool experience comes
00:51:28
down to, um, what resources you have in
00:51:31
your community, like what homeschool
00:51:33
resources you have. Do you have access
00:51:35
to museums? Are there libraries? Are
00:51:37
there secular homeschooling groups? And
00:51:39
and frankly, a lot of it is also just um
00:51:41
the financial resources that your family
00:51:43
has because I think that families that
00:51:45
are maybe in a lower income space um
00:51:48
they're they're going to probably
00:51:49
struggle more with homeschooling because
00:51:51
one of the biggest strengths of
00:51:52
homeschooling is freedom. It's like you
00:51:54
have time freedom. You have the
00:51:56
opportunity to travel. You have the
00:51:57
opportunity to maybe explore. Um you
00:51:59
have access to, you know, maybe take
00:52:02
music lessons or take rock climbing
00:52:03
lessons. But if you can't financially
00:52:05
afford those things, then your kids are
00:52:08
going to be at home most of the time or
00:52:10
you're only going to be limited to
00:52:11
activities that are free. I Yeah, I
00:52:13
agree with you 100%. I think it's one of
00:52:15
those things that can be done well and
00:52:16
it can be did right. Um it just, you
00:52:19
know, but it is it's about intention.
00:52:21
It's about Yeah. resources. There's
00:52:22
there's a lot of factors. Homeschooling
00:52:24
is very much a privileged thing. And so
00:52:26
for sure, you know, I didn't realize
00:52:28
that until Yeah, I didn't realize that
00:52:30
until I was like in high school and I
00:52:31
was like, wait, so you're telling me a
00:52:33
family of four lived on a single income
00:52:36
in California and homeschooled their
00:52:38
kid. Like that's homeschooled two kids.
00:52:40
That's like crazy with a stay-at-home
00:52:42
mom. That's like that's a lot of money.
00:52:43
You know, dad must have been doing okay.
00:52:45
And it's like where were the sacrifices,
00:52:47
you know, things like that. So, um,
00:52:50
>> is there anything else before I let you
00:52:52
go? Anything else that we haven't
00:52:53
touched on that you feel we should? Has
00:52:56
anything sparked in your memory? A funny
00:52:58
home school memory? Any other just
00:53:00
homeschool stuff that we haven't touched
00:53:02
on that you're like, "Okay, we got to
00:53:03
quickly touch on these things." I would
00:53:05
say that overall my biggest takeaway
00:53:08
from homeschooling is that if you have
00:53:10
already grown up feeling weird and
00:53:12
excluded and you come into adulthood, um
00:53:16
it ultimately becomes a strength for you
00:53:18
because if you've already if you've
00:53:20
already felt weird like you can no
00:53:21
longer feel weird if that makes sense.
00:53:24
And so at that point it becomes a
00:53:25
strength and you're kind of free to like
00:53:26
do whatever you want to do. And so
00:53:29
that's kind of honestly my biggest
00:53:30
takeaway is that you've already grown up
00:53:33
outside maybe feeling a little weird,
00:53:35
feeling quirky. So just go for your
00:53:36
dreams. Go for the things that you want
00:53:38
to pursue because you've already felt
00:53:40
the worst of the worst and you know that
00:53:41
it can't be worse than that.
00:53:43
>> Yeah, 100% agree. I think that is like
00:53:46
embracing the weird 100%. Let the freak
00:53:48
flag fly as my mom always says.
00:53:50
>> For sure. For sure.
00:53:52
>> Well, Lydia, thank you so much for
00:53:54
coming on. Um, this has been a wonderful
00:53:56
conversation and I hope
00:53:57
>> so much fun. So much fun.
00:53:59
>> Good. I think that's the best part about
00:54:00
having these conversations is like one
00:54:02
we get to like it's building community.
00:54:04
It's building and telling stories and
00:54:06
relating um on things that we
00:54:08
experienced so we don't feel alone,
00:54:10
right? And um and so anyway, thank you.
00:54:13
Thank you. Thank you for coming on. I
00:54:15
really appreciate it. And uh to the
00:54:17
audience, I hope you guys enjoyed this
00:54:19
conversation. If you did, leave a like,
00:54:21
leave a subscribe, send it to a friend,
00:54:23
leave a comment. Let us know if you have
00:54:24
additional questions for Lydia. Let me
00:54:26
know. Um, drop them in the comments
00:54:27
below. Uh, maybe we'll have her back on
00:54:30
do another do a part two down the line.
00:54:32
It'd be really fun. Maybe
00:54:34
>> we could go maybe a little bit more
00:54:36
in-depth on something um as well. And uh
00:54:39
remember to uh subscribe to the
00:54:41
newsletter, do all of the internet
00:54:42
things that you know how to do. There's
00:54:43
links for all kinds of stuff down below.
00:54:45
Go check it out. Um again, share it with
00:54:47
a friend. And until I see you next time,
00:54:50
peace.
