00:00:05
Well, welcome back to the Exhomes
00:00:06
Schoolers Club. I of course am your
00:00:08
host, Jacob Gooden, and uh we've got a
00:00:09
repeat offender on our hands today. RB
00:00:12
is back for round two. I shouldn't say
00:00:14
offender, that sounds really bad, but
00:00:16
repeat guest. RB, first and foremost,
00:00:18
thank you for coming back to the club.
00:00:21
>> Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Um
00:00:23
yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, almost I
00:00:26
think it's been about a year uh since we
00:00:28
last chatted and so I'm I'm excited to
00:00:31
catch up with you. I know some things
00:00:32
have changed in your life. We're going
00:00:33
to get into that, but if you have not
00:00:35
listened to Arby's
00:00:36
>> interview from before, I encourage you
00:00:38
go back. It's going to be linked
00:00:40
probably up here and also down in the
00:00:42
description and wherever you're
00:00:43
consuming this, it'll be linked. Okay,
00:00:45
go check it out. But um can you give us
00:00:47
can you give us like a quick taste like
00:00:49
give the people a quick hit of like what
00:00:50
your homeschool journey was like? just
00:00:52
the quick elevator pitch of like what it
00:00:54
was. So, if they do want to go back and
00:00:56
listen, what they're what they're in
00:00:57
store for there.
00:00:58
>> Quick and dirty for a repeat offender. I
00:01:00
got it. Um,
00:01:03
yeah. So, I was I never went to a
00:01:07
regular like public school or even a
00:01:10
private school, right? My entire
00:01:11
education from preschool or kindergarten
00:01:14
up to college at 17 was uh
00:01:18
homeschooling.
00:01:20
And it was myself and my two sisters who
00:01:23
were pretty close in age to me
00:01:25
primarily. And I experienced
00:01:27
homeschooling in two different states.
00:01:31
Uh Kansas
00:01:33
um and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania was
00:01:36
where I was born and we moved to Kansas
00:01:38
when I was 13. So, um, there's some
00:01:40
nuances there in and how homeschooling
00:01:43
worked in those states, but also the
00:01:45
kinds of curriculums and I would say
00:01:48
even more so the kinds of homeschooling
00:01:50
groups and religious groups that we were
00:01:52
affiliated with in both places and those
00:01:54
certainly shaped that experience. So,
00:01:57
yeah, that's uh that's it in a nutshell.
00:02:00
to your point about the nuances and the
00:02:02
differences between homeschool states. I
00:02:04
also just add um the
00:02:08
uh leader not leader but the uh the
00:02:10
chairman I I don't remember her title
00:02:12
but Tess
00:02:15
Ol I think is how you say her name and
00:02:16
I'm I'm I'm butchering it. I'm just I'm
00:02:19
waking up guys. I haven't had my coffee
00:02:20
yet today and that's okay. But uh
00:02:22
anyway, I had Tess from the Coalition
00:02:24
for Responsible Home Educators or
00:02:26
Education on the show and we talked a
00:02:29
lot about the states and how they differ
00:02:31
and we're going to have some other
00:02:32
people back on and talk more about that.
00:02:33
So, if that's also something you want to
00:02:34
know, link for that down below. All
00:02:36
right.
00:02:37
>> I would I would like to understand that
00:02:39
better because I think part of what
00:02:40
defined my experience was that there was
00:02:43
a lack of accountability, right? And and
00:02:45
that definitely shaped. So, I love that
00:02:48
folks who are choosing that path today
00:02:50
are also choosing ways to hold
00:02:53
themselves accountable, right?
00:02:55
>> Yeah. No, and I think that's the the
00:02:57
cool thing about what they're doing.
00:02:59
They are kind of I don't want to say the
00:03:01
antithesis, but a little bit of like
00:03:02
HSLDA or HSLDA wants everything to be up
00:03:06
to parents to decide every little nuance
00:03:08
and everything. And there's some there's
00:03:09
some credence to some of that, but um
00:03:12
but the
00:03:12
>> that's homechool legal defense for those
00:03:14
of you who don't know as a like I was in
00:03:17
the what we would consider one of the
00:03:20
first generations of homeschoolers,
00:03:21
right? I consider myself an a not a
00:03:25
millennial but also not a Gen Xer. I'm
00:03:27
I'm a Zenial, right? I'm 1982, grew up
00:03:30
in the 80s, right? That that kind of
00:03:34
generation. So I was the first one in my
00:03:36
county to be homeschooled. So that yeah,
00:03:41
that early experience and like all the
00:03:44
all the
00:03:47
parasitic organizations that were
00:03:49
cropping up to leech off of people who
00:03:52
chose that path. Um I'm very familiar
00:03:55
with.
00:03:56
>> Yeah. So, what I think is great about
00:03:57
the coalition, one of the big things
00:03:58
that they're pushing for is just like
00:04:00
very common sense standards across the
00:04:03
board for our states. And so, anyway, go
00:04:05
check them out. Link down below. And
00:04:07
>> yeah, I want to listen to that one. I
00:04:08
haven't I haven't listened.
00:04:10
>> Yeah. And we're going to have more of
00:04:11
them on and talk more about what they do
00:04:13
soon cuz it's it's really cool. I I
00:04:16
appreciate it because it's not something
00:04:18
when you're a kid, you really don't
00:04:19
realize that like my the the rules and
00:04:22
regulations of my state when it comes to
00:04:24
homeschooling are different from other
00:04:25
states. California. I I just assumed
00:04:27
every other state was that way, you
00:04:29
know, and then I come to find out I'm
00:04:30
like, no, other states like they had to
00:04:32
go for testing every every year and I'm
00:04:34
like, I didn't have to do that. I'm
00:04:36
thankful my parents did the few times
00:04:37
that I did take testing, you know.
00:04:39
>> Yeah.
00:04:40
>> So, well, uh well, let's let's get into
00:04:42
you sent me we we've been messaging a
00:04:44
little bit and you kind of were like,
00:04:46
"Hey, some life stuff has changed." And,
00:04:49
uh and you wanted to chat about it. And
00:04:50
one of the things you brought up was
00:04:52
that uh was it over the summer you got
00:04:54
diagnosed with ADHD?
00:04:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. Last summer.
00:04:58
>> I can't believe it's been a year ago.
00:05:00
That's that's crazy. So, talk me through
00:05:03
that because I feel like that is it's
00:05:06
kind of a a big thing I'm seeing in my
00:05:08
friend groups and just I I think in
00:05:09
people in general who are like 30s and
00:05:12
and 40s and and they're starting to they
00:05:15
they missed the diagnosis when they were
00:05:16
a kid and now they're going back and
00:05:18
getting it and they're like, "Oh my
00:05:19
gosh, things are making sense now. It's
00:05:21
unlocking things." So, talk me through
00:05:24
like what made you want to get tested in
00:05:27
the first place? What was the process
00:05:28
like? and then and then we'll get into
00:05:30
like what you're doing with that
00:05:31
information. Now,
00:05:32
>> there's a little bit of pre-story to the
00:05:34
actual decision to be tested. Um, and
00:05:39
not to go into it a whole lot, but I I
00:05:42
think some of these things I mentioned
00:05:43
in the previous episode, but there was a
00:05:46
lot of trauma in my childhood. There's a
00:05:49
lot of trauma in my childhood. There's a
00:05:50
lot of trauma in my parents' childhood.
00:05:52
and that that kind of passing down of of
00:05:55
that trauma is uh is just what happens.
00:05:59
And so I had been working with a trauma
00:06:03
therapist for
00:06:07
4 years I think at that point. And we
00:06:11
worked through it was one of these
00:06:12
things to where it was a little bit of a
00:06:14
roller coaster. Like I'd work through
00:06:16
some things. I'd be pretty good. I'd
00:06:18
kind of be hit a dip again. I call him
00:06:20
up. Hey, I need to come chat with you.
00:06:23
Um and there were a few points where he
00:06:26
was he was kind of like, "Dude, you're
00:06:28
good. you're good like come see me
00:06:31
anytime you want but we don't need to do
00:06:33
it you know every month or you know
00:06:35
every other week as it was for a while
00:06:37
and every time he said that I was like
00:06:40
yes I have arrived I am healed right I
00:06:45
and
00:06:47
there were there were a few things it I
00:06:51
don't know if this is how everyone's
00:06:52
therapy journey is but how mine was was
00:06:55
it was a lot of like very general things
00:06:59
and then it was very specific things
00:07:02
that were triggering or that happened
00:07:05
and because of the work that I had done
00:07:08
and he had helped me with I was able to
00:07:10
recognize that and go address it pretty
00:07:13
much right away. Right? So, this had
00:07:16
been kind of going on for, like I said,
00:07:18
about 4 years. And then I kind of
00:07:21
reached this point to where
00:07:24
I was like, I don't I don't need this
00:07:28
kind of therapy anymore. and
00:07:33
my whole kind of view of life had not
00:07:38
just all of a sudden but had kind of
00:07:40
shifted right away from a trauma
00:07:43
narrative away from like I I am who I am
00:07:46
because of my parents right and there's
00:07:49
I just want to say for anyone listening
00:07:51
to you if if that's where you are right
00:07:53
now it's okay right that is that is part
00:07:57
of the journey but I promise you it is
00:07:58
not the end of the journey
00:08:01
um keep at it. So I reached the reached
00:08:04
this point and I was like, okay, I don't
00:08:07
like I'm ready to move forward with my
00:08:09
life, right? And it wasn't from the like
00:08:12
I'm shoving down what happened to me. It
00:08:14
is that I now have the tools to be able
00:08:16
to handle it, right? When it when it
00:08:18
comes up and I have a better
00:08:20
understanding of of all the things that
00:08:23
have happened. So when I got to that
00:08:25
point,
00:08:27
I was able to let go of a lot of the
00:08:29
coping mechanisms that I had kind of
00:08:32
internalized in my experience. And it
00:08:36
was things like,
00:08:38
you know, you see people wearing
00:08:40
t-shirts, right? I lift heavy weights so
00:08:42
I don't kill people, right? It's it's
00:08:44
that kind of like I didn't need those
00:08:47
same
00:08:49
tools that would just completely take me
00:08:52
out of my mind and out of my body in
00:08:54
some cases to a pain cave to where I I
00:08:59
could go there and that felt safe.
00:09:01
Right? So there were multiple things
00:09:03
that I was like I don't need this
00:09:06
anymore. I don't need this anymore. I
00:09:07
don't need this anymore. And
00:09:10
I entered this space that my wife and I
00:09:12
like to call
00:09:14
Arby's manic phase because all of a
00:09:16
sudden I had time and I had energy
00:09:20
because I wasn't putting it towards
00:09:22
controlling everything around me so that
00:09:24
I wouldn't be triggered.
00:09:26
And so over the span of like a few
00:09:32
months
00:09:33
I started like four businesses. I did a
00:09:37
bunch of really looking back like kind
00:09:41
of dumb stuff that if I had been in a
00:09:45
better a healthier state of mind, I
00:09:48
wouldn't have necessarily done.
00:09:51
But all of that was me like trying to
00:09:54
figure out who I was without the
00:09:59
shackles of trauma essentially, right?
00:10:02
And as we as I kind of started looking
00:10:06
at like, okay, what is this? What am I
00:10:10
doing? Right? Because I immediately
00:10:12
overwhelmed myself. I started a
00:10:14
co-working space. I started like
00:10:16
vending. I bought $2,000 worth of B
00:10:21
movie star autographs cuz I was positive
00:10:24
that I was going to be able to flip
00:10:26
these and sell them for so much money.
00:10:29
Um, I started going to I was going to
00:10:32
the state surplus store and buying used
00:10:35
pocket knives and like vending those at
00:10:37
different shows and events. And um, I
00:10:40
put all of this burden onto myself cuz I
00:10:44
didn't I didn't know at the time what I
00:10:46
was looking for. And like I said, I had
00:10:48
never experienced this kind of freedom
00:10:49
before. And God bless my wife. like she
00:10:54
was so kind and so gracious and just cuz
00:10:58
I would get I would get I was really
00:11:00
stubborn too and I couldn't hear what
00:11:02
other people were telling me because she
00:11:04
was like I don't think that whole
00:11:06
picture thing is going to work out like
00:11:08
you think it's going to. Uh shout out if
00:11:10
any of your followers want autograph
00:11:11
pictures from be movie stars from like
00:11:13
the 60s and 70s like hit me up. I've got
00:11:16
them. Um, but you know, I couldn't hear
00:11:18
it, right? And I was just like so sure
00:11:22
of everything.
00:11:24
So, this happened and then and then I
00:11:26
started to burn out. Um, after a few
00:11:28
months, I was like, I I can't do all of
00:11:32
this and I've I've overextended myself
00:11:35
and I I've made commitments that are
00:11:38
going to be really challenging for me to
00:11:40
keep because I'm I'm on the downward
00:11:42
slope and I didn't know what that meant.
00:11:45
And during this time I was, you know,
00:11:48
kind of following the social media
00:11:51
trend, which I think it is a trend right
00:11:53
now. There's a huge space that is like
00:11:55
everyone is ADHD and you need all these
00:11:58
tools, right? And that is a trap um that
00:12:01
I got caught in of like let me sell you
00:12:04
this fidget spinner or let me sell you
00:12:07
this piece of software or sign up for
00:12:09
this music app that's going to help. And
00:12:11
some of them are helpful. Some of them
00:12:13
are not. But like you can dump all of
00:12:16
your money into trying to manage what
00:12:20
whatever condition you think you have.
00:12:23
So I got to the point where I was like,
00:12:26
I think I think I have ADHD. And I
00:12:29
remember one night there's there's a an
00:12:33
actual test you can go take online that
00:12:37
is like a DSM and and um you go through
00:12:41
it. And I remember taking it and waiting
00:12:45
for my results and they didn't come
00:12:46
quick enough. So I took it again and
00:12:49
those results didn't come quick enough.
00:12:50
So I took it again. I took it four times
00:12:53
in the space of like 20 minutes because
00:12:55
I was so like
00:12:58
>> this is I was moving fast. I need the
00:13:01
answer now. And it came back as like
00:13:04
>> probably and I was like god damn it. Um
00:13:08
what do I do with this information? So,
00:13:12
I found a spot in Austin, um, which is
00:13:17
an incredible place, and they're the
00:13:20
only place that I know in this area of
00:13:23
Texas that will do an actual come to our
00:13:27
office, we will evaluate you, and it's
00:13:29
not like we're going to chat with you
00:13:31
and and tell you maybe you have it. It's
00:13:34
like we're going to get super detailed.
00:13:35
It's like it was like 6 hours of
00:13:38
testing. Um, and then there was a like a
00:13:42
pre like I sent them
00:13:45
my kind of life history ahead of time.
00:13:48
And then they took several weeks to
00:13:51
basically go through that, go through
00:13:52
that with a psychologist. And then a
00:13:54
psychologist is actually the one who
00:13:56
like calls you and says like, "Here's
00:13:58
what it is. Here's what's going on." And
00:14:02
um, and so they did that. And
00:14:06
there's so many things I learned. So
00:14:09
yes, you have ADHD and it's there are
00:14:12
different types of ADHD and what you
00:14:14
have is called inattentive ADHD.
00:14:17
And what inattentive ADHD
00:14:22
is is it's it's an imbalance in some of
00:14:26
the ways that your brain processes or
00:14:29
stores information.
00:14:32
So for me there was no and there's
00:14:36
different different systems inside of
00:14:38
your brain essentially that do different
00:14:40
tasks and all of mine were like
00:14:47
around normal
00:14:50
um except for one was lower and then a
00:14:53
few were much higher.
00:14:56
And how they explained it was it's not
00:14:58
so much like where you are, it's where
00:15:02
you are relative to the other parts of
00:15:05
your brain and those processing speeds.
00:15:08
So for me, working memory is really low.
00:15:13
And one of the tests I did was like, I'm
00:15:15
going to tell you a 10-digit number.
00:15:18
When I finish with the last number, I
00:15:20
want you to write that number down.
00:15:22
Right? And I couldn't do it. I could get
00:15:23
like four numbers in and then I I didn't
00:15:26
know what it was. Right. So, it's it was
00:15:28
very specific like we're testing um
00:15:32
specific types of of brain processing.
00:15:35
So, um once I got that diagnosis, I was
00:15:39
like,
00:15:41
okay, it didn't feel real. It didn't
00:15:45
feel like I think some people experience
00:15:48
a like,
00:15:50
okay, this makes so much sense, right?
00:15:53
That didn't come later until I started
00:15:55
with the uh the medication, which we'll
00:15:57
get into. But um yeah, that's like the
00:16:00
the pre-story into the the like how I
00:16:05
decided to to get tested. Well, I think
00:16:08
one of the things I picked up on that
00:16:10
that I haven't really heard a lot of
00:16:12
people talk about is the fact that
00:16:14
there's different types of ADHD. And I
00:16:16
think that's that's important in the way
00:16:18
you kind of described it of like looking
00:16:19
at where your brain levels are and how
00:16:21
they are relative to each other. Not
00:16:23
just in general of like, hey, if
00:16:25
everything is low, then you're I mean,
00:16:27
probably to some degree then you're
00:16:29
diagnosed as this, but also how they
00:16:31
impact each other is is super
00:16:33
interesting. Um, and yeah, because that
00:16:37
that's that's the reality of like the
00:16:40
more people I know who who are like,
00:16:42
"Okay, yeah, I'm ADHD." I'm like, "But
00:16:44
you all are so different." Like there's
00:16:46
not a there's not a like common thread,
00:16:48
so to speak, of like you all just like
00:16:51
forget this one thing or like like I'm
00:16:53
married to an ADHD person. They don't
00:16:55
close the cabinets. Sorry, babe. Love
00:16:58
you. But like it it's like one of those
00:17:00
things where it's like I have just
00:17:01
learned that it's like I'll just do it.
00:17:03
It's not a big deal. you know, I'll go
00:17:05
and close the cabinets. Um, and like the
00:17:06
object permanence thing of like if it's
00:17:09
out of sight, it's out of mind, you
00:17:10
know. Yes. And so learning those things
00:17:12
about
00:17:13
>> people, it's like, okay, but not
00:17:15
everybody who has ADHD
00:17:17
>> struggles with that.
00:17:19
>> Well, why is that? Okay. So, very
00:17:22
interesting. So now, okay, so now that
00:17:24
you've got your diagnosis, you said it
00:17:25
took a while to kind of like hit you of
00:17:27
like, okay, I've got this and like like
00:17:31
a wave of relief or like just an
00:17:32
understanding of like, okay, yeah, it's
00:17:35
it's real. Um, cuz I had some friends
00:17:37
who it's like it's instantaneous. They
00:17:39
get the results and they're just like,
00:17:40
>> okay, yeah, this makes sense. Like
00:17:42
instantly it's like weight rolls off the
00:17:43
shoulders kind of a deal.
00:17:45
>> So that it doesn't seem like that
00:17:46
totally happened for you. It took a
00:17:47
little bit, but once that started to
00:17:49
kind of kick in and you were like,
00:17:50
"Okay, now I can do something with this.
00:17:53
What what are we doing with this
00:17:54
information?" Now, I I started on some
00:17:57
medication and um
00:18:01
part of this journey has also been
00:18:03
around how do I connect
00:18:07
ADHD to the rest of my health, right? So
00:18:13
my primary care physician at the time
00:18:16
was like,
00:18:18
I get it. Um, I am not going to
00:18:22
prescribe you a stimulant stimulant.
00:18:24
You're in your 40s. Um, in people in
00:18:27
their 40s, I'm more concerned about
00:18:29
their heart health than I am about
00:18:31
management of a of a of a, you know,
00:18:34
ADHD or ADD or So he was like, I'm not
00:18:38
telling you no. I'll give you some
00:18:40
things to try that are non-stimulant
00:18:42
options, but if you want a stimulant,
00:18:44
you need to go see another another
00:18:45
physician. So, I was really grateful
00:18:47
that he was very open and honest about
00:18:50
what he was willing to do and what he
00:18:51
wasn't willing to do and why. So, I did
00:18:54
try some non-stimulant options and they
00:18:57
were more of the like
00:19:01
they'll take your lyic system and help
00:19:03
it calm down, right? So, your fight
00:19:05
orflight response
00:19:07
um and those
00:19:10
I didn't notice a difference like that
00:19:13
that wasn't that wasn't the challenge
00:19:16
because that that is another type of
00:19:18
ADHD to where you get you can get locked
00:19:20
into that.
00:19:21
>> Um so that wasn't the right medication
00:19:24
for my type of ADHD. Um, so then I tried
00:19:28
rolin and this is where it kind of
00:19:32
starts like getting into the
00:19:38
childhood stuff which is tied to
00:19:40
homeschooling and how that all happened
00:19:41
because we had a kid in our neighborhood
00:19:43
in Pennsylvania who was on Roland and
00:19:48
he w he was not sure where on the
00:19:53
spectrum he was but he was in the like I
00:19:57
am a functioning human area without a
00:20:02
lot of
00:20:04
cognition, right? So he could go to
00:20:07
school, he, you know, he was in the in
00:20:10
the, you know,
00:20:13
more focused classes that can help
00:20:15
someone whose brain works like that. But
00:20:18
the way that my parents treated it was
00:20:22
he is like that because he is on rolin.
00:20:26
If they would take him off rolin, he
00:20:28
would be a normal kid.
00:20:30
>> Right? So there's some tapes that are
00:20:32
playing
00:20:34
>> and for you young people, a tape is like
00:20:36
a cassette that we used to put into
00:20:38
something and press play and it would
00:20:40
roll a tape. So, um,
00:20:43
but the old tapes of like if I take
00:20:47
this, it's going to destroy my life,
00:20:50
right? It's going to turn me into a
00:20:52
zombie. It's going I'm going to get
00:20:54
addicted to it. It's something that's
00:20:55
going to like start controlling me
00:20:58
rather than me being able to control my
00:21:00
own life.
00:21:02
It's not true, right? It's just it's
00:21:04
it's not true. Now, are they are they
00:21:07
potentially
00:21:08
uh dangerous? Yes. Are they habit
00:21:11
forming? Yes, they are. And that is why
00:21:16
you need
00:21:18
physician assistance and oversight with
00:21:22
these kinds of medications because if I
00:21:26
I've had conversations with with my
00:21:28
psychiatrist of like this like this
00:21:31
dosage like made me feel like a million
00:21:34
dollars and I was crying because I'd
00:21:39
never felt my brain all working in the
00:21:44
same way before. And their response was,
00:21:47
"That's fantastic. Also, that means it's
00:21:50
too high of a dose because you're going
00:21:53
to get addicted to that, right? So,
00:21:55
we're going to take that back down.
00:21:56
We're going to like the goal is that you
00:21:59
slowly ramp up and you slowly ramp off,
00:22:02
right?" So, there's not this like I took
00:22:04
this drug and now I am a I'm a super,
00:22:08
you know, I have superpowers. Um, if you
00:22:11
want more information about that, go
00:22:12
watch the Limitless movie with Bradley
00:22:14
Cooper. But
00:22:17
>> I was, yeah, I was thinking about that
00:22:18
as you were saying that. But I think
00:22:20
what you said there about like the
00:22:22
doctor oversight thing is like really
00:22:24
important because I think
00:22:26
I'm kind of that way too with with drugs
00:22:29
and stimulants and things like that
00:22:30
where I'm just like, you know, are they
00:22:32
gonna are they going to be addictive?
00:22:34
are they going to be you know all you
00:22:36
know and
00:22:38
it's hard because it's like you yeah you
00:22:40
do need you need those people in your
00:22:41
life who are going to also help regulate
00:22:43
you to some degree and you need the
00:22:45
people who are also with you on a
00:22:47
day-to-day basis to understand what what
00:22:49
you're going through and
00:22:51
>> yes
00:22:52
>> you know and because they can start
00:22:53
throwing up the red flags and the green
00:22:55
flags of like yes this is working and no
00:22:57
it's not working or something is really
00:22:58
wrong here and so I think that's
00:23:01
important that you said that because so
00:23:02
many people they want the miracle pill,
00:23:05
right? They want to take it once and
00:23:07
they, you know, and be like, "This is
00:23:08
the what I'm going to do for the rest of
00:23:09
my life." And it's like, that's just not
00:23:11
the way the human body works. Like we
00:23:13
>> we are a very delicate chemical balance
00:23:16
and sometimes it goes out of balance and
00:23:18
we got to fix that with some with some
00:23:20
prescription drugs and that's okay. But
00:23:21
it's just like you it's going to change
00:23:24
again at some point. You know, your
00:23:26
chemical your chemical balance doesn't
00:23:28
stay the same always. that is always in
00:23:30
flux and so it makes sense that your
00:23:32
drug would also be in flux.
00:23:34
>> So, so now so have we gotten the dosage
00:23:38
dialed in at this point or
00:23:39
>> gotten the dosage pretty much dialed in.
00:23:41
I switched from rolin to aderall and I
00:23:44
ju I just want to say out loud a lot of
00:23:46
people when they go on podcast or
00:23:48
whatever they don't talk about the types
00:23:50
of medication they're taking because
00:23:52
they don't want people to think exactly
00:23:53
that like oh is the one I'm going to go
00:23:56
ask my doctor for aderall. Um because I
00:24:00
I'm still like Aderal is working but I'm
00:24:02
curious about Viveance. Like there's
00:24:04
some some things about Adderall that I'm
00:24:06
like uh not not great but also maybe
00:24:09
there's something else. So like and I
00:24:12
really appreciate what you said because
00:24:14
one of the one of the challenges
00:24:18
um with all of this is is
00:24:23
thinking that there is a magic solution
00:24:25
that is going to not only help today but
00:24:28
also is going to be the same for the
00:24:30
rest of your life. And that very black
00:24:34
and white thinking was something that
00:24:36
was a another coping mechanism that I
00:24:39
learned early on of like someone was
00:24:42
either safe or unsafe. There was no in
00:24:44
between. Right? And I would I have been
00:24:47
the type of person my whole life that I
00:24:49
assume everyone is safe until they prove
00:24:51
otherwise and then get out of my life. I
00:24:53
don't want to have anything to do with
00:24:54
you. Right? So along with the medication
00:24:59
and figuring out the dosage and meeting
00:25:01
regularly with a psychiatrist, I'm also
00:25:04
meeting regularly with a a therapist who
00:25:07
specializes in ADHD.
00:25:10
And so it's taking everything from a
00:25:13
trauma lens to help me understand how my
00:25:17
brain works
00:25:19
so that I don't just spin in circles
00:25:24
because that's a lot of the struggle I
00:25:26
think that folks with ADHD have is we
00:25:30
get in this loop of I should I should be
00:25:33
able to do this. I should be able to
00:25:36
wake up and immediately
00:25:39
check my messages on social media and
00:25:41
not have it [ __ ] my entire day up,
00:25:44
right? Because when when I do that, my
00:25:48
brain is now running and I have a very
00:25:52
hard time trying to grab it and say,
00:25:56
"Hey, it's time to answer that email
00:25:59
from Brenda and talk about what we're
00:26:02
going to work on next week." Right? when
00:26:04
I just watch someone be shot and killed
00:26:07
on TV, right? It's like
00:26:11
>> I can't exist in two places at the same
00:26:13
time. So, I've learned
00:26:15
>> like some some things like I keep my
00:26:20
phone in the bathroom, right? It's very
00:26:22
rare that I have my phone next to me at
00:26:25
night anymore. Um because I will get
00:26:29
lost in social media. Um and then and
00:26:34
then I can't I can't sleep. Um sleep is
00:26:38
super important for people with ADHD. Um
00:26:41
and I think I think it's important for
00:26:43
everyone, but I think it's easier for
00:26:45
people without with ADHD to be like,
00:26:49
"Oh, I'm fine. I am I am hyperfocused on
00:26:52
this thing and I'm gonna stay up till
00:26:53
two o'clock in the morning and I know if
00:26:55
I take Adderall the next day on only
00:26:58
four hours of sleep I'll still be able
00:27:00
to function. And let me tell you, you
00:27:02
can only do that so long. That is not a
00:27:05
sustainable plan.
00:27:06
>> No, it's not. I I used to work for a guy
00:27:09
who would kind of go through spells of
00:27:10
that where he would
00:27:12
>> and and we would have a meeting at the
00:27:13
end of the week and I'd be like, "How
00:27:14
many hours have you slept this week?"
00:27:16
And if it was less than eight, I was
00:27:18
like, "Okay, you need to like
00:27:21
>> get some help, please. Like, yes,
00:27:23
>> next week needs to be different because
00:27:25
like you are all over the place." Um,
00:27:27
and like I felt bad, but I was just
00:27:29
like, you know, I'm like, we're over
00:27:31
Zoom, so it's like I can't physically be
00:27:32
there for him, but I'm like, yo,
00:27:34
something is really wrong here. So, I
00:27:37
think what you said about the phone is
00:27:38
also really important. I'm I'm guilty of
00:27:40
that, too. You know, I think that just
00:27:41
in general,
00:27:43
>> our phones are a stimulant. They are
00:27:44
meant to be. And social media in
00:27:46
particular is meant to be a stimulant
00:27:47
and it's meant to
00:27:49
>> fire certain synapses in your brain,
00:27:51
right? And so it's it is one of those
00:27:52
things where right now, especially with
00:27:54
the fact that the news cycle is 24/7 and
00:27:58
it's the the stuff that always gets
00:27:59
pushed the most is negative, it's nasty,
00:28:02
it's evil, it's wicked. And so yeah, I
00:28:05
think what you were saying about just
00:28:06
like keeping it in the other room and
00:28:08
like being selective of when you check
00:28:10
it and how you check it. Like I have all
00:28:12
notifications turned off for social
00:28:13
media. you DM me on social media, I'm
00:28:15
checking it when I want to check it kind
00:28:17
of a deal. So, you know,
00:28:19
>> and so when you earn enough trust in my
00:28:21
life,
00:28:22
>> I'll give you my phone number and that
00:28:24
will alert me as soon as you text me
00:28:26
kind of a deal. But anyway, so I
00:28:28
appreciate you. Can we can we touch on
00:28:29
that because I I feel like that's a
00:28:32
concept that I
00:28:35
really struggled to understand
00:28:39
because in the digital age and I work
00:28:43
completely remote
00:28:45
um in the digital age it's very hard
00:28:50
to explain
00:28:52
the circles of trust
00:28:56
and to
00:28:58
build those walls to protect yourself,
00:29:03
right? And when I started first started
00:29:07
experiencing this was or or coming to
00:29:10
understand that was in the same space of
00:29:12
like I can do anything. So like I was on
00:29:17
I don't know if I ever made a blue sky
00:29:18
account but I was on threads, I was on
00:29:21
Instagram, I was on Facebook, right? I
00:29:23
was like, maybe I want to be a content
00:29:24
creator. And so, like, just opening
00:29:27
myself up to the entire online world and
00:29:32
not understanding what you just
00:29:34
explained that it's very important for
00:29:38
us to have circles that are allowed to
00:29:42
reach us at any time. And then there's
00:29:45
usually a few other circles as you go
00:29:48
out. you know, you've got your business
00:29:50
associates, which they are allowed to
00:29:52
contact you at specific times and not at
00:29:56
other times, but usually there's one of
00:29:58
those people that's in your inner
00:30:00
circle. So, if something's really
00:30:01
blowing up, they're going to text you
00:30:03
and be like, RB, I need you online,
00:30:05
right? And I'll be like, cool. You
00:30:07
wouldn't have contacted me if if you
00:30:10
didn't need that. So that I think that
00:30:13
is something that we're I don't see
00:30:16
obviously I don't see it on social media
00:30:18
right because that is all the social
00:30:21
medias want all of your attention but
00:30:23
it's been really important to for me to
00:30:26
kind of set up those boundaries of who
00:30:30
can meet reach me in when and in what
00:30:33
situations. Again, that was like a huge
00:30:35
shift for me this past year was when I
00:30:37
turned off like it. So, what happened
00:30:40
was like a year or so ago, might have
00:30:42
almost maybe a year and a half ago or
00:30:44
so, there was a big movement to do a
00:30:47
social media blackout during I want to
00:30:50
say it was like Black Friday or
00:30:51
Christmas. And it was just like commit
00:30:52
to two days of no social media. And I
00:30:55
was like,
00:30:55
>> hell yeah, I'm on board with this. I was
00:30:57
real. I was looking at my screen time,
00:30:59
right? And I was like I was like that is
00:31:01
where I'm spending the majority of my
00:31:03
time on my phone is on social media. And
00:31:05
so I deleted everything off my phone for
00:31:07
those two days. It was fantastic. I read
00:31:09
books. I did puzzles. I watched movies.
00:31:11
Like I still did YouTube because I don't
00:31:13
consider YouTube a social media platform
00:31:15
even though it kind of technically is.
00:31:16
But I was like, "Okay, but I'm not doing
00:31:18
the messaging and I'm not doing the
00:31:20
short stuff. I was like much more
00:31:21
intentional with like long form
00:31:24
>> content." And when I brought it back, I
00:31:26
was like, "Okay, I'm turning
00:31:28
notifications off. Like, this cannot
00:31:30
keep happening." So, inside the app,
00:31:32
yeah, all the bells and whistles go off.
00:31:35
You know, it's all going to be there.
00:31:36
It's going to show up for you. But as
00:31:37
far as like my home screen goes, never,
00:31:40
right? I don't If you DM me, I don't see
00:31:43
it until I go looking for it. And I go
00:31:44
check every single day, but it's just I
00:31:47
can't do it. And it's the same with work
00:31:49
stuff, too, like you were talking about.
00:31:51
>> I I use Slack for some of my clients.
00:31:53
It's like one of those things where it's
00:31:54
like during regular office hours I have
00:31:57
it on. I won't always respond cuz if I'm
00:31:59
in editing I usually will put myself as
00:32:01
like I'm in the editing bay right now
00:32:02
like don't bother me kind of a thing.
00:32:04
I'll get to it. But it is one of those
00:32:06
things where it's like, you know, you
00:32:08
have access to me during these hours.
00:32:10
And then I also take it a step further
00:32:12
and when I respond to people, I'll
00:32:14
schedule stuff out if I if I'm working
00:32:15
at midnight cuz sometimes I do that cuz
00:32:17
we're all guilty of that, you know, but
00:32:20
I will just set it to go to send it to
00:32:22
them first thing in the morning because
00:32:23
it's just it's one of those things where
00:32:24
it's like I don't want to be I don't
00:32:26
know if they have their notifications
00:32:27
turned off and I don't want to be
00:32:29
bothering them at two in the morning,
00:32:31
you know? Um, and so
00:32:33
>> can I can I touch on something you just
00:32:35
said?
00:32:35
>> Yeah.
00:32:37
>> See, you said we're all guilty of that.
00:32:42
And these are the kinds of things that
00:32:43
my therapist is helping me with now
00:32:45
because
00:32:48
you're not guilty,
00:32:50
right? There's no shame in that. It's as
00:32:55
humans, we have different energy spurts
00:32:57
and different needs at different times.
00:33:01
And that's okay. What's not okay is to
00:33:05
not take care of yourself, right? So, as
00:33:08
long as you're like, I was up working at
00:33:10
midnight and I'm going to clear two
00:33:12
hours to my calendar tomorrow so I can
00:33:14
sleep in a little bit and have a slower
00:33:16
morning and allow myself as a as a as a
00:33:19
mammal to let all of those chemicals
00:33:24
release from my body so I can face the
00:33:27
next day with the energy and the
00:33:29
intention that I intend to. No shame.
00:33:33
>> You You're so right. I Yeah. No, you're
00:33:35
you're so right because that is
00:33:37
definitely something where
00:33:40
I think I tend to beat myself up. I
00:33:41
think a lot of people tend to beat
00:33:42
themselves up, right? Because like who
00:33:45
wants to be working at midnight, 2 a.m.
00:33:47
in the morning? Nobody. But sometimes
00:33:49
it's just when your brain is firing and
00:33:50
so it just makes sense to actually do
00:33:52
that, right? And so it's like
00:33:53
>> absolutely
00:33:54
>> I get creatively active sometimes at 2
00:33:56
in the morning and I'm like, you know
00:33:57
what, dude? Let's just rock it, you
00:34:00
know?
00:34:00
>> Yes. And that's that's also part of this
00:34:03
journey is starting to understand that
00:34:07
there are times when my brain is
00:34:09
creative
00:34:11
and there are times when it's not.
00:34:14
Right? And
00:34:16
one of the challenges with taking a
00:34:19
stimulant is for me it lowers the
00:34:23
creativity. I can focus on a task,
00:34:27
right? But I can't
00:34:29
um
00:34:31
go create
00:34:33
a script that's going to make my job
00:34:36
easier, right? Like that's that's not
00:34:38
where I'm I'm doing a thing and I'm
00:34:41
going to do the thing and I'm going to
00:34:42
finish the thing and and it's hard,
00:34:45
right?
00:34:47
But that's not the creative space. So
00:34:49
sometimes that creative space comes when
00:34:52
the aderall wears off and I'm like I
00:34:54
have energy and
00:34:57
I've been wondering how to do this
00:34:59
thing. Like one of the thing an example
00:35:01
of this is like I stayed up until I
00:35:03
think 4:00 in the morning and this was
00:35:05
during more of the manic phase but like
00:35:08
I need for those pictures I needed to
00:35:11
figure out how to price them right. So,
00:35:13
I was working with Chad GPT and I was
00:35:17
creating scripts in Google Sheets and
00:35:19
doing things like I was hitting APIs and
00:35:23
pulling back pricing information from
00:35:25
like eBay and Etsy for this name and and
00:35:31
building this. And I'd never built
00:35:33
anything that complicated before and I
00:35:36
did it in a space of like 6 hours which
00:35:39
was amazing. Um, but I don't know that I
00:35:42
could replicate that with the energy I
00:35:44
have right now. Right? So, just
00:35:46
understanding that there's different
00:35:48
times and part of that is just your your
00:35:53
awareness, right? And I think that's
00:35:55
what the trauma therapy t started to
00:35:58
teach me was awareness of how triggers
00:36:03
show up in my body. Right? Because now
00:36:07
I'm ever able to leverage that that I've
00:36:10
learned and be like, "Okay, now without
00:36:14
the trauma piece,
00:36:18
how is what I'm doing and what I'm
00:36:21
thinking showing up in my body today,
00:36:25
right? And how do I do I want to change
00:36:27
that or not? Or is that a recognition of
00:36:29
like, oh, when I sit here and I take
00:36:34
deep breaths for 60 seconds, my
00:36:37
shoulders drop and the speed that I talk
00:36:42
slows and I gain clarity and I'm not in
00:36:47
this stressed out situation where like I
00:36:49
have a deadline in an hour and I put
00:36:52
this off because I have ADHD and now
00:36:55
there's such a sense of urgency that
00:36:57
I've got to get it done. But I can be
00:37:01
aware enough about my body to Okay, you
00:37:04
are not in danger, right? Your body is
00:37:08
reacting to before you got beat by your
00:37:10
dad right now, right?
00:37:13
>> Let it go. Let it go. If you need to ask
00:37:17
your boss, hey, I can I get this to you
00:37:20
tomorrow morning? I'm working on it. I
00:37:21
promise I'll have it to you then, but
00:37:23
it's not going to be by 6:00 p.m.
00:37:25
tonight. Right? and then you can take
00:37:27
those breaths and you can you can move
00:37:29
on. But that that awareness is something
00:37:31
that the trauma therapy really helped me
00:37:34
with and and the um ADHD therapy is just
00:37:38
kind of helping take that to the next
00:37:40
level.
00:37:40
>> I was Yeah, I was going to ask you kind
00:37:42
of like now
00:37:45
with that ADHD like diagnosis and now
00:37:47
that you're you're learning the skills
00:37:49
to manage that, right? and you're
00:37:52
looking at a as you look back and you
00:37:54
okay like you've obviously done a lot of
00:37:57
work in like healing your trauma right
00:37:59
but as you are able to like look back
00:38:01
and look at your childhood and things
00:38:02
like that
00:38:03
>> does it make it a lot more clear with
00:38:05
like
00:38:06
>> okay I acted this way in this situation
00:38:08
because
00:38:10
>> my brain is different right I needed
00:38:12
right
00:38:12
>> maybe I needed medication maybe I needed
00:38:14
rol rin right and then like
00:38:17
>> it's like so how is that what is that
00:38:20
How is that going in your brain? Like
00:38:22
what what are you thinking when it comes
00:38:23
to that kind of stuff?
00:38:24
>> Some of the earliest like when I started
00:38:28
when I finally could accept like I have
00:38:31
ADHD because part of it was acceptance
00:38:34
and then once I was able to accept it,
00:38:35
it was like okay now what do I do about
00:38:39
it? Because you don't have to. Like
00:38:41
there's plenty of people that have this
00:38:44
that choose not to go down the
00:38:46
medication path. They find other ways to
00:38:48
to handle it. But one of the things that
00:38:51
really helped it
00:38:54
become real for me was thinking about
00:38:58
times in my childhood
00:39:01
that
00:39:03
it was very clear
00:39:06
that this was a condition that I had.
00:39:08
Right? So, when I was I think I was
00:39:13
nine or 10, I can I can like picture it
00:39:16
in my mind sitting at my desk cuz we we
00:39:20
got actual like school desks
00:39:23
um in the kitchen. I'm sitting there and
00:39:27
I'm staring at a blank sheet of paper.
00:39:30
And I'm going to get emotional about
00:39:32
this, but I remember staring at a blank
00:39:35
sheet of paper and my assignment was
00:39:38
write a research paper on Pearl Harbor.
00:39:43
And I remember for 3 days staring at a
00:39:46
blank sheet of paper and I could not put
00:39:49
anything down on that piece of paper.
00:39:52
And
00:39:54
I am so grateful that my parents did not
00:39:59
um punish me for that. They actually
00:40:03
once they saw how much I was struggling,
00:40:05
they were like, "Okay, we think maybe
00:40:07
this was too big of a task. Like maybe
00:40:09
just do like a book report on a book
00:40:12
that you read about Pearl Harbor."
00:40:14
Right? And and I was able to do that.
00:40:18
Um, but recognizing that experience
00:40:22
which still is is like seared into my
00:40:25
being, right? And I can still feel that
00:40:29
anxiety trying to creep in. Um, that was
00:40:34
that was ADHD. That's because I didn't
00:40:36
have enough working memory to be able to
00:40:38
read something, be able to restate it in
00:40:40
my own words and write it down. Like,
00:40:43
and besides, like really at 9 or 10,
00:40:46
like a subject that huge, you're going
00:40:49
to ask a kid to do that. So, that goes
00:40:51
back to the whole like what is what is
00:40:54
reasonable to ask kids in a certain
00:40:57
grade level to do, right? based on
00:41:00
research and people who have studied
00:41:03
this kind of thing of how brains develop
00:41:05
their entire lives, right? We were not
00:41:07
informed by that. We were informed by
00:41:11
Abeca says that this is third grade
00:41:14
material that a third grader should be
00:41:17
able to do. Therefore, do this. Right?
00:41:21
So there there's been multiple
00:41:23
experiences like that that I've been
00:41:25
able to think back and be like just
00:41:30
and it's not just remembering, right?
00:41:33
And this is part of what I've learned in
00:41:35
therapy. It's it's remembering and it's
00:41:38
talking to
00:41:40
that little boy and it's saying
00:41:45
you didn't have the tools you needed,
00:41:48
right? You didn't have the tools you
00:41:50
needed. No one around you understood
00:41:53
what was happening.
00:41:55
And that's okay. You're okay. You did
00:41:59
what you could and you were trying and
00:42:02
there was nothing wrong or evil or bad
00:42:04
about you that you weren't able to do
00:42:08
this quote unquote simple thing that
00:42:10
someone had asked you to do. Right? And
00:42:12
and it's so important for us as humans,
00:42:16
I think, to
00:42:19
get to the point where we can revisit
00:42:21
those traumatic pieces in our past. And
00:42:25
and people listening to this might be
00:42:27
like, I mean, come on, that's [ __ ]
00:42:29
ridiculous. You're going to call like
00:42:31
being required to write a research paper
00:42:33
traumatic.
00:42:35
And I will counter with
00:42:37
trauma is not the event that happens to
00:42:39
you.
00:42:40
Trauma is the story you tell yourself
00:42:44
about yourself to make it through that
00:42:47
experience.
00:42:49
Right? So the story that I told myself
00:42:51
was you're bad, you're evil, you're
00:42:54
broken, there's something wrong with
00:42:55
you. They had to dumb this assignment
00:42:58
down for you
00:43:00
because you couldn't do it right. And
00:43:02
that is the trauma and that is what I
00:43:05
can go back and heal. what you said
00:43:07
there is like super powerful because the
00:43:10
biggest thing I've come to realize in
00:43:11
the last probably two-ish years is like
00:43:15
I discounted my own traumas always
00:43:18
because I felt like they were nothing
00:43:21
compared to what other people had gone
00:43:23
through, right? Being physically
00:43:25
>> beaten, sexually assaulted,
00:43:28
>> drug abuse, like just crazy stuff,
00:43:31
right? the things that we label as like,
00:43:33
oh my god, that must be insanely
00:43:36
painful, right? And what I realized is
00:43:39
like what you just said, it's the
00:43:41
narrative associated with it. Yes.
00:43:43
>> It's not always just the thing. And so
00:43:47
that has been a huge eye openening thing
00:43:50
for me as I like you were talking about
00:43:52
going back and talking to your younger
00:43:53
self and saying it's okay your feelings
00:43:56
are valid and like giving them a big hug
00:43:58
and say you know you you're safe here
00:44:00
and that shouldn't have happened to you
00:44:02
but nobody knew how to deal with it and
00:44:04
you didn't know how to deal with it and
00:44:05
that's okay. that's okay that you didn't
00:44:07
know how to deal with it,
00:44:08
>> you know, but you know now and you do
00:44:10
better now. And so
00:44:12
>> that's like that's a big thing. And so I
00:44:15
appreciate you saying that because it is
00:44:18
just this like
00:44:20
it's a mind [ __ ] in a lot of ways of
00:44:21
like like you were saying like like the
00:44:23
way we react and the way we you know
00:44:25
things that trigger us and and we act
00:44:27
out and we do a certain you know this is
00:44:29
this is our coping mechanism. This is
00:44:30
the thing we do, right? It's like and
00:44:32
then you start to unpack it and you're
00:44:33
like, "Oh man, I'm like really screwed
00:44:35
up." Right? Like I got so many journal
00:44:37
entries at this point where I'm just
00:44:39
like I'm like what is wrong with this
00:44:40
guy
00:44:42
you know um and uh and I tell my wife
00:44:47
all the time I'm like I'm like I am a
00:44:48
mess half of the time. And you know but
00:44:51
it it's it's taking those steps.
00:44:54
>> Yeah. It's it's taking those little
00:44:56
steps day by day and and it gets better.
00:44:59
It gets easier. it gets faster, you
00:45:00
know, and you know, and so and then you
00:45:03
get to a place where it's like it
00:45:04
doesn't control you. And so like hearing
00:45:05
at the beginning when you were talking
00:45:07
about like kind of getting through
00:45:09
trauma therapy to where you're like,
00:45:10
okay, I I have the tools now to deal
00:45:13
with that and it's given me freedom to
00:45:15
now have access to this other this time,
00:45:17
this energy that I didn't have before.
00:45:20
That's huge. That's like a massive win,
00:45:23
right? And like I want to applaud you.
00:45:25
That's like incredible, you know? And
00:45:27
so, but
00:45:30
and so and I'm hoping I'm hoping for
00:45:32
that. I mean, I see that in my life in
00:45:33
little wins, but like I I hope that for
00:45:35
all of the people who have come on the
00:45:36
show, the people who listen, like as you
00:45:38
work through these things, you get it
00:45:39
will pay off at some point. It does.
00:45:42
It's just taking the time to get there.
00:45:45
>> Yes. And it's good to reflect on that.
00:45:48
And I that's one of the reasons honestly
00:45:50
that I wanted to have this conversation
00:45:52
because it's helpful for me to kind of
00:45:55
see how far I'm come I I've come and it
00:45:59
and that's not that's not pride that's
00:46:01
that's I mean maybe it is pride I mean
00:46:03
of course I was grown up to believe that
00:46:05
pride was a deadly sin but
00:46:08
I can be proud of myself right for the
00:46:11
work that I put in for the journey that
00:46:13
I'm on and I'm not there I'm I haven't
00:46:16
arrived I will never arrive Right. Um,
00:46:20
but it's it's it's worth the time and
00:46:24
it's worth the energy and it's worth the
00:46:26
the wrestling with your past to to get
00:46:31
to a point where
00:46:33
you can see things in a different light.
00:46:35
And and being diagnosed with ADHD
00:46:41
has helped me to look at some of my
00:46:44
childhood stuff differently, right? and
00:46:47
see that in a lot of ways my parents
00:46:50
were trying super hard. They didn't know
00:46:52
what to do. They like I and it wasn't
00:46:55
like I was a a a a wildly different kid
00:46:59
than everyone else, but obviously I had
00:47:01
struggles that were unique to me and
00:47:04
they did not have the tools or the
00:47:06
information to be able to process that,
00:47:10
notice it even sometimes
00:47:13
um because of their own unresolved [ __ ]
00:47:16
from I mean my mom grew up you know
00:47:19
working as a child labor in the Hines
00:47:22
ketchup fields in Pennsylvania, right?
00:47:24
My dad was adopted when he was 6 weeks
00:47:27
old because his his family didn't want
00:47:31
him. And like I look at my life and then
00:47:35
I look at their lives and I'm like what
00:47:38
a beautiful example in a lot of ways.
00:47:41
Even though some of the stuff that
00:47:43
happened to me was terrible and I would
00:47:44
never want it to happen to someone else.
00:47:46
What a beautiful view of
00:47:50
evolution.
00:47:53
through generations of where we are
00:47:57
trying to be better, right? And some of
00:48:00
this like I was talking to a friend of
00:48:02
mine and he was like
00:48:04
>> my childhood was
00:48:08
my dad beat my mom in front of us, but
00:48:11
he never beat us because his dad beat
00:48:15
him. And that was him being a good dad
00:48:17
to us, right? And and what a horrible
00:48:21
situation that you had to you had to be
00:48:23
there and watch your mom be abused,
00:48:26
right? And also
00:48:30
now he is coming out of that same like
00:48:32
trauma and wanting better for his
00:48:35
future, right? So
00:48:37
it's not like I can go back and excuse
00:48:39
I'm I'm estranged from my dad, right?
00:48:41
That's something that's happened in the
00:48:43
in the last year or two. Um because
00:48:45
there's certain things that he he has
00:48:47
done in his life that I cannot explain
00:48:50
through that lens, right? They are
00:48:54
heinous and evil and I cannot
00:48:58
have a relationship with him unless he
00:49:00
addresses those things and he's not
00:49:02
willing to do that and he may never be
00:49:04
willing to do that, right? Um but I can
00:49:07
see a lot of the other things that
00:49:09
impacted me directly as he was trying to
00:49:13
help me. He just had no [ __ ] clue
00:49:16
what he was doing and his experience was
00:49:19
worse than mine.
00:49:20
>> I think what you said there is it's
00:49:22
something I've said on the show before.
00:49:24
I I say it all the time. It's like I
00:49:25
know that my dad is better than his dad
00:49:28
and I want to be better than my dad.
00:49:29
Right. And that's exactly what you just
00:49:31
said. It's the evolution process of like
00:49:33
taking the things that they did poorly
00:49:35
and doing them better, but also taking
00:49:37
the things that they did right
00:49:39
>> and continuing to do them better. Right.
00:49:41
>> Yes. The other thing that you said there
00:49:43
that really struck me and this is kind
00:49:45
of going back even earlier in our
00:49:46
conversation when we talked about like
00:49:47
black and white, right? And that's
00:49:49
something that as as two people who grew
00:49:51
up very religious, black and white is
00:49:53
like that's the answer to everything,
00:49:55
right? Is God or Satan is good and evil,
00:49:57
right? It's like it's like black and
00:49:58
white. Everything is black and white.
00:50:00
You know, it's like historically
00:50:01
accurate or like a complete lie and
00:50:03
sham, right?
00:50:04
>> And so it's very interesting now
00:50:07
existing in that gray space, right?
00:50:10
because
00:50:11
>> it's hard. You see the the the ways that
00:50:14
our parents messed up or right or the
00:50:16
things that traumatized us. Those are
00:50:17
bad. Those are arguably bad,
00:50:20
>> but then there's all this gray space of
00:50:22
like like you were just saying there
00:50:23
like they were trying to be better to
00:50:26
some degree than their parents.
00:50:27
>> Yeah.
00:50:28
>> So, it's like hard because it's like
00:50:29
where do you start to draw those lines?
00:50:31
It becomes a lot trickier of like
00:50:34
>> when and how and all these things. And
00:50:36
so I applaud anyone who's on that
00:50:38
journey because like it's not easy to
00:50:40
kind of start to figure out and draw
00:50:41
those lines and eventually you have to,
00:50:43
right? You know, and it
00:50:45
>> it can be messy and it's not fun and
00:50:47
it's it's painful, but it's one of those
00:50:49
things where it's like
00:50:50
>> existing in the gray space now
00:50:53
>> has oh my gosh, it has freed me up in so
00:50:56
many ways where I'm just like
00:50:58
>> I'm okay not really having the answer.
00:50:59
I'm okay just kind of being like, you
00:51:01
know, I I don't think it's good. I don't
00:51:03
think it's bad. I think it's in the
00:51:04
middle here and that's okay, you know.
00:51:06
And so I applaud you again for doing
00:51:09
that work and continuing and like
00:51:11
sharing about it because it's not easy.
00:51:13
It's also not easy to talk about it.
00:51:15
>> Yeah, it's getting easier to talk about
00:51:16
it sometimes. I think I'm I bore people
00:51:19
and I probably do. Uh it's it but it's
00:51:21
also kind of fun being that one guy in
00:51:24
the friend group who like you go around
00:51:26
the room and you're like, you know,
00:51:27
sharing stories from your childhood and
00:51:29
and then I share something and
00:51:31
everyone's like, "Holy [ __ ]
00:51:33
Everyone gets quiet and I'm like, "Oh, I
00:51:36
said too much."
00:51:39
>> Yeah. You're like, "Uh, okay." Um, I had
00:51:43
one other question. I
00:51:44
>> Go ahead.
00:51:46
>> Um, no, I was actually gonna gonna
00:51:48
slightly I was going to play off the
00:51:50
gray, living in the gray. So, if you've
00:51:53
got
00:51:53
>> No, I was going to completely pivot. So,
00:51:55
I mean,
00:51:56
>> Okay.
00:51:56
>> Let's Let's stay in the gray.
00:51:58
>> Okay.
00:52:00
Um, I I've I've I've got a a working
00:52:03
title for my autobiography that is
00:52:05
Ascent to Gray. Um, because that like
00:52:09
that's where that's where everyone is,
00:52:13
right? And and something, you know, in
00:52:15
our supercharged political climate that
00:52:18
we're in,
00:52:20
it is so black and white and it's like
00:52:23
that on both sides, right? And
00:52:27
it's it's hard sometimes because the way
00:52:30
that I see things now, it's almost
00:52:33
challenging to connect to how I saw them
00:52:35
even 10 years ago, right? 10 years ago,
00:52:39
2016. And and this is one of those
00:52:41
things like I don't want to say this out
00:52:42
loud, right? I voted for Trump, right? I
00:52:45
did. That was the situation I was in.
00:52:47
That was the world that I lived in. And
00:52:50
I was starting to come out of that, but
00:52:52
I was still connected enough to where I
00:52:54
was like, man, Hillary's the devil, man.
00:52:57
Like, Trump's bad, but good grief. Like,
00:52:59
she's she's she's it, right? So, so I
00:53:03
voted for him. And now I see people on
00:53:06
different social media sites saying
00:53:08
like, if you ever voted for Trump, you
00:53:10
are out of my life. Like, I cannot trust
00:53:13
you. you are the kind of person who is,
00:53:16
you know, you're not a critical thinker
00:53:18
and I can't I can't have that in my
00:53:20
life. And I recently saw a clip from um
00:53:26
uh Glennon and and Aby's podcast, We Can
00:53:29
Do Hard Things, and they did a they did
00:53:32
a tour last year and they talked about
00:53:34
this concept of there's a river of love
00:53:39
and the betterment of humanity
00:53:43
and it's flowing, right? and and we get
00:53:46
in this space where we're we're worried
00:53:48
and we're like, "Oh, everything is worse
00:53:50
than it has ever been." And in in this
00:53:52
country, in some ways, it is for white
00:53:55
people, right? But it's it's they talked
00:53:59
about this concept of like there's boats
00:54:02
on this river and there's boats for
00:54:04
immigrant justice and there's boats for
00:54:06
better education and there's boats for
00:54:07
better healthcare, right? And as humans,
00:54:13
pick your boat and get on it.
00:54:15
And also once you're on that boat, you
00:54:19
have no right to look at someone else
00:54:22
who is trying to get on that boat and
00:54:25
say, "Why weren't you here earlier?"
00:54:29
Right? And and that's the narrative that
00:54:32
I think needs to needs to change, right?
00:54:35
Because as things come to light, as
00:54:37
people are starting to question the
00:54:38
choices that they have made in the past
00:54:40
that have affected the trajectory of
00:54:41
this country,
00:54:43
they need to feel like changing their
00:54:46
mind is not something that they're not
00:54:50
welcome to do. Right?
00:54:53
>> So, anyhow, that was a that was a very
00:54:55
much a a a tangent. Um, and I wouldn't
00:54:58
blame you if you don't put that in the
00:55:00
in the podcast. That is totally fine.
00:55:02
Um,
00:55:02
>> you know, I I've been thinking a lot
00:55:04
about this recently, too. And like, you
00:55:06
know, in 2016, that was the first
00:55:08
election I got to vote in. I was a
00:55:10
senior in college. It was a big deal,
00:55:13
mailin ballot. And I I remember sitting
00:55:15
there and looking at it and having
00:55:16
watched the news and all these things.
00:55:17
And I was I grew up conservative. I I
00:55:20
was like when Barack Obama was running
00:55:22
for president, he was I don't want to
00:55:24
say he was the devil because I don't
00:55:25
think that that was really what I
00:55:27
believed, but I definitely was like he
00:55:28
is the he is the evil um side of it. And
00:55:31
so, you know,
00:55:33
>> but I I remember sitting there and being
00:55:35
like, can I really vote for Trump? And
00:55:38
like
00:55:39
>> and I I couldn't vote for either of
00:55:41
them. and I went third party and I knew
00:55:42
that that was like a throwaway kind of a
00:55:44
thing to some degree, but I was like I I
00:55:48
was unpacking things but I still had
00:55:50
that taste of like Hillary Clinton is
00:55:52
the devil and I but I also was like
00:55:56
>> I couldn't do the Trump thing either. I
00:55:58
just it was one of those really rough
00:56:00
>> situations and I remember just sitting
00:56:02
there and but what you said is great of
00:56:04
like it is okay to change your mind.
00:56:06
That is the last 10 years of my life has
00:56:09
been nothing but changing my mind. It
00:56:11
has been shifting my perspective and
00:56:15
>> in in all aspects of my life, not only
00:56:17
just politically, religiously, and
00:56:20
>> in in who I am as a person and and just
00:56:23
everything, right? And so,
00:56:25
>> and that's okay.
00:56:27
>> That's again that gray area that we're
00:56:28
talking about. It's the ability to ask
00:56:30
the questions and say, "Okay, I don't
00:56:32
know that this is good or this is bad. I
00:56:34
just need to continue searching to
00:56:37
figure that out, right? And find that
00:56:38
place for myself. And so
00:56:40
>> I appreciate you saying that and it
00:56:42
probably will make it in. Um
00:56:45
so, you know, um but yeah, I think man,
00:56:49
I just
00:56:51
Yes, we need to we need to come to a
00:56:53
place where we can be accepting of
00:56:55
people changing their minds. And yes, we
00:56:56
can be frustrated that it's like you
00:56:57
didn't do it fast enough.
00:56:59
>> Yeah. I mean I h I'm frustrated with
00:57:01
myself
00:57:02
>> that I that I it wasn't faster right I
00:57:05
>> right but
00:57:06
>> but the thing is
00:57:06
>> I would not make the same
00:57:08
>> yeah but I know I have become the person
00:57:10
who would make a different choice today
00:57:12
right and I I think that that
00:57:15
recognition and that like that is just
00:57:18
human growth that is natural and that's
00:57:22
how like we should be learning we should
00:57:25
be changing and that was something that
00:57:30
growing up change was scary, right? And
00:57:33
and part of the light that has changed
00:57:35
for me and looking back is
00:57:39
yes, homeschooling is a part of my story
00:57:41
and the and the way that homeschooling
00:57:43
showed up for me was not healthy, right?
00:57:47
And it was not healthy for my sisters.
00:57:51
Um,
00:57:52
but
00:57:55
I look at my my past more now through
00:57:58
the lens of trauma and poverty than I do
00:58:02
homeschooling. Right? I think when I
00:58:04
when I was on the podcast for the first
00:58:06
for the first time, um, my story was a
00:58:10
lot of like my experience was terrible,
00:58:13
right? And it legit was in some ways.
00:58:17
And the reason why my parents chose that
00:58:22
instead of public education or instead
00:58:24
of private education had a lot to do
00:58:27
with poverty and had a lot to do with
00:58:29
their own trauma. And so while if I was
00:58:32
them with the information that I know
00:58:34
now, I would have made a different
00:58:35
choice. I can understand the choices
00:58:38
that they made and why they made them,
00:58:40
right? And that brings a lot of peace.
00:58:44
Yeah, I I I agree. The other thing I
00:58:48
wanted to kind of that that you had said
00:58:50
in talking about like the river with the
00:58:52
boats and like every boat is kind of
00:58:54
these different topics. The thing that
00:58:56
I've realized
00:58:57
especially last year was there is this
00:59:03
unfortunate call right now to be like
00:59:05
you have to be informed about everything
00:59:07
and you have to be
00:59:09
>> pro or anti whatever all the time,
00:59:11
right?
00:59:12
>> You have to pick a side. You have to and
00:59:13
you have to pick a side, right? And and
00:59:17
I I think that everybody should have
00:59:19
their own opinions on whatever, but I
00:59:21
also don't think that everybody can
00:59:23
advocate for every injustice and
00:59:25
everything wrong. Yeah. Right. And so
00:59:27
that's why
00:59:29
I really took the end of 2025 to
00:59:31
evaluate where is it that I want to
00:59:34
talk, where is it that I want to support
00:59:37
the most because
00:59:40
>> we will be stronger the more that we get
00:59:42
groups of people together to focus in on
00:59:44
one area at a time, right? And so this
00:59:47
podcast, we talk a lot about education,
00:59:48
we talk about a lot about homeschooling,
00:59:52
the alternatives to that. That's kind of
00:59:54
the direction that the show is going to
00:59:56
continue to go is that vein of like and
00:59:59
and childhood trauma and religion and
01:00:01
that kind of a thing because th those
01:00:03
things get grouped together. I'm not
01:00:05
going to sit up here and probably talk
01:00:06
about Israel and and Gaza and the
01:00:09
genocide and Palestine and and the
01:00:11
genocide that's happening there because
01:00:12
that's not my lane. That's not what I
01:00:14
I'm an expert in talking about. There's
01:00:16
other shows that are going to talk about
01:00:17
that.
01:00:18
>> This is a show where we're going to talk
01:00:19
about education in in the States, maybe
01:00:22
in the world. We'll see. Maybe maybe
01:00:23
it'll come up at some point. Um had a
01:00:25
few people from out of the country be
01:00:26
like maybe we'll come talk about it. But
01:00:28
um childhood education, religion, and
01:00:32
and that process of growing up and the
01:00:35
traumas surrounding that and the good,
01:00:36
the bad, and the ugly. That's what this
01:00:38
show is about. And that's where I want
01:00:39
to focus and that's where I want the
01:00:41
people who are here to ride that ride
01:00:42
with me. Great. That's our cause. That's
01:00:45
what we're going for. Okay? Get on the
01:00:48
boat or hop on your own boat and it's
01:00:50
okay. It's okay. It's just where we're
01:00:51
at. So
01:00:53
>> yeah. No, I love that. And I like I
01:00:58
>> even more so because I just saw that
01:01:00
clip a few days ago. Even more so I'm
01:01:02
grateful for this opportunity because I
01:01:04
am I'm on a different boat, right? But
01:01:08
you inviting me and having this
01:01:10
conversation
01:01:12
means I get to I get to hop on a boat
01:01:14
that is really important to me, right?
01:01:17
And I get to contribute to this space.
01:01:20
And then, you know, in two hours I'm
01:01:23
back on my other boat, right? Which is
01:01:25
which is how do we get health care to
01:01:29
millions of people in this country who
01:01:31
don't have sufficient access to it,
01:01:34
right? That's the boat I'm on. That's
01:01:36
the company I'm working for. That's the
01:01:37
vision that I'm I'm aligned with right
01:01:39
now. Um, but I love that like you are
01:01:44
taking
01:01:47
um ownership of this space and you are
01:01:52
helping guide this boat down that river.
01:01:55
Like I love that and I support you and
01:01:58
I'm so grateful that you are using your
01:02:01
platform for that.
01:02:03
>> Well, thank you. And I wanted to let's
01:02:06
talk about healthcare because that is
01:02:08
that is a big topic. It's something we t
01:02:10
we chatted a little bit before we hit
01:02:12
record about.
01:02:13
>> Yeah.
01:02:13
>> And the way earlier in the show, the way
01:02:16
I was gonna kind of pivot it is like the
01:02:18
tools that we're using, right, to for
01:02:22
>> stuff. But since you brought it up,
01:02:24
let's just go there. Like what what are
01:02:28
what are you trying to do? What is this
01:02:29
boat that you're on that you're like,
01:02:30
"Okay, let's get healthcare to millions
01:02:32
of people." Because the reality is,
01:02:33
yeah, there's there's a ton of us,
01:02:35
myself included, who we we not insured.
01:02:37
And so going to the doctor
01:02:39
>> is really scary because I'm going to get
01:02:41
slapped with a big fat medical bill.
01:02:43
>> Yeah. It's terrifying. And that that
01:02:46
society,
01:02:48
you know, if you think about our our
01:02:51
health across the entire country, the
01:02:53
access to care, the availability of care
01:02:57
is
01:03:01
lacking, right? and and getting people
01:03:05
connected to the to care that they can
01:03:07
afford, care that they need um is is a
01:03:12
challenge and and what I've come to
01:03:14
understand and you know I've been at
01:03:16
this company now for four and a half
01:03:18
years
01:03:20
and um it's uh be wellconed health um
01:03:26
but we're in this space of how do we
01:03:30
connect people to their medical
01:03:33
information and then how do we help them
01:03:36
find the care that they need, right?
01:03:39
Because the way that this
01:03:42
our the US health care system worked
01:03:47
um in especially from early on is it was
01:03:51
a uh pay for a service model, right? to
01:03:55
where you said, "I
01:04:00
cut off my arm and I need to go to the
01:04:04
emergency room, right? And so you're
01:04:06
paying for this
01:04:09
help with this event that has happened
01:04:12
to you." And the more that we learn
01:04:15
about the human body and the way our
01:04:17
brains work and I mean the whole thing
01:04:19
that we talked about with ADHD, right?
01:04:22
ADHD wasn't a thing a hundred years ago,
01:04:25
right? People didn't understand, the
01:04:27
research hadn't been done, the drugs
01:04:28
hadn't been developed, right? To
01:04:31
understand how we could help people with
01:04:34
these different conditions, right? And
01:04:36
there's swas of our population that have
01:04:39
challenges like this in worse, right, to
01:04:42
where they have high blood pressure,
01:04:43
they're at risk for heart attack,
01:04:45
they're diabetic, right? and they don't
01:04:47
have access to the kinds of preventative
01:04:51
care that are going to improve their
01:04:53
life experience. And that is the space
01:04:57
that that my company is in. The the
01:05:01
challenging part about this is for me,
01:05:05
I see people on other boats and I see
01:05:08
people who are going out to protest or
01:05:11
donating to food banks or taking food to
01:05:14
families who are afraid to lo leave
01:05:16
their house, right? And I'm like, I I
01:05:19
want to do that. It's and it's very
01:05:21
discreet. It's very um I went and I did
01:05:25
a thing and and I feel good, right?
01:05:28
because I did this this demonstrable
01:05:30
thing. When you're dealing with hundreds
01:05:33
of years of legislation,
01:05:36
right, and you're dealing with a
01:05:39
market that is primarily
01:05:43
based on capitalism and how do we
01:05:47
maximize profits? you start getting into
01:05:50
situations where
01:05:53
um
01:05:55
it's a it's a
01:05:58
you have things like what we've seen
01:06:00
with different insurance companies to
01:06:01
where they have entire department that
01:06:03
are dedicated to denying paying for your
01:06:07
care because it's going to cost them
01:06:11
money and they are in the business of
01:06:13
making money not spending money right
01:06:17
and we're like how Is health care so
01:06:20
terrible in this country and yet
01:06:23
the heads of these companies are making
01:06:26
million-dollar bonuses and the stock
01:06:28
price keeps going up and up and up,
01:06:30
right? So, I work for this tiny little
01:06:33
startup that's like we are trying to
01:06:35
change
01:06:38
how this country does health. And what's
01:06:42
been fascinating about the last few
01:06:46
years is
01:06:49
as the administration of the government
01:06:52
has changed,
01:06:54
there is now the the space we're in
01:06:58
currently,
01:07:01
the administration is much more likely
01:07:03
to rule by edict than by legislation.
01:07:08
Right? So, they're much more likely to
01:07:12
sign something, right, than go work with
01:07:16
Congress and figure out how to change
01:07:18
things and change laws and do that.
01:07:20
They're much more likely to just like,
01:07:23
"Oh, you have a good idea. Okay, cool.
01:07:26
Let's make it happen." Right? And that
01:07:28
is what has happened in the health
01:07:31
industry to where these people there's
01:07:34
people in like the, you know, they're
01:07:36
not the the Dr. Oz and the RFK Jr. that
01:07:40
everyone is like throwing out this guy
01:07:42
said this thing and it's so stupid and I
01:07:45
can't believe he would say that. Right?
01:07:46
That's a lot of the what the social
01:07:48
media cycle is about. But the people who
01:07:50
work for those people are people who
01:07:52
have been there for 20 and 30 years.
01:07:55
They know where it's broken. They know
01:07:58
what needs to change and they're
01:08:00
actually getting a chance right now to
01:08:02
change it. And and that's the hard work
01:08:06
that my company has been doing is trying
01:08:09
to be involved in legislative changes
01:08:12
around Medicare and Medicaid and how
01:08:15
that is administered and how that is
01:08:18
that data essentially is shared or not
01:08:21
shared. Um, so it's it's been this
01:08:25
evolution and we're right now at a point
01:08:28
where 600 over 600
01:08:33
um, healthc care providers have signed a
01:08:36
piece of paper
01:08:38
agreeing that by I believe it's June of
01:08:42
this year, you will be able to using
01:08:46
their software walk into a doctor's
01:08:49
office and instead of having to spend 15
01:08:52
minutes trying to remember every
01:08:54
medication you've ever t taken, every um
01:08:57
surgery you've ever had and you know
01:09:00
what diseases your mother's aunt's uncle
01:09:02
had, right? That might still apply to
01:09:05
you that your physician might want to
01:09:07
know about to where you'll be able to
01:09:09
scan a QR code and share that
01:09:11
information with them. Right? So that
01:09:16
that's that's just one example of how we
01:09:20
are trying to change the industry and
01:09:23
this is not something that like you can
01:09:25
do as a weekend warrior on your Saturday
01:09:28
for a few hours, right? This this is
01:09:30
time and energy and frustration and like
01:09:33
what do you mean you want to fax us
01:09:35
health information? The number one piece
01:09:37
of technology for the last 40 years
01:09:40
still in use today is faxes. I've talked
01:09:43
to people who have worked in offices
01:09:44
where they literally had a fax machine
01:09:46
tied to another fax machine so they
01:09:48
could get information from one provider
01:09:50
and send it to another provider. So, how
01:09:53
do we how do we work in this space?
01:09:57
Going back to the whole gray area,
01:09:59
right? Because some of the stuff that's
01:10:02
happening could be viewed from the lens
01:10:05
of,
01:10:07
oh my god, what do you mean that entity
01:10:10
has my data? or why would I ever consent
01:10:14
to that entity having my data right um
01:10:18
and so as as my company and I say my
01:10:22
company I work there it's not I'm not
01:10:23
one of the founders but I'm fortunate
01:10:26
enough to be part of this journey
01:10:29
is that is that area of we have taken a
01:10:32
very firm stance that number one your
01:10:36
data is your data it is never shared
01:10:40
with anyone house without your express
01:10:42
consent. And number two, that consent
01:10:46
needs to be readable and easily
01:10:49
understood and not 50 pages of garbage
01:10:53
that in the end means you don't own your
01:10:56
health data, but you're not going to
01:10:58
take the time to read it because it's 50
01:11:00
pages long, right? So, so it's a it's
01:11:03
trying to say this is the future. This
01:11:06
is where we can go, right? But you are
01:11:09
still in control of your the things that
01:11:14
affect you the most.
01:11:15
>> One of the big things a couple years ago
01:11:17
I worked a lot in the web 3 space.
01:11:20
Crypto NFTTS those big bad words that a
01:11:23
lot of people don't like. Um and web 3
01:11:26
also encapsulates AI. So to some degree
01:11:29
you could say I still work in the web 3
01:11:30
space
01:11:31
>> because I use AI for a lot of stuff. Um
01:11:33
and and try to keep my thumb on, you
01:11:36
know, what's going on there.
01:11:37
>> Yeah. Yeah,
01:11:37
>> one of the things that working in the
01:11:39
crypto space helped me to realize was
01:11:43
there are options and there is the
01:11:45
ability to like own your own data like
01:11:48
you were saying, right?
01:11:49
>> Because a lot of times when we go on a
01:11:51
website, right, Tik Tok is a good
01:11:52
example of this, Instagram is a great
01:11:54
example of this, Spotify is a great
01:11:56
example of this. If you post your stuff
01:11:58
onto those platforms, you no longer own
01:12:00
it
01:12:01
>> in any way, shape, or form. They are
01:12:03
able to use it. And this is very
01:12:04
different from
01:12:06
>> our health
01:12:07
or health information, but there are
01:12:10
protective ways and there are digital
01:12:12
wallets and things that can be can
01:12:15
protect your your information and and
01:12:18
it's not giving it out to
01:12:20
it's not going to be trained on an AI
01:12:22
thing, right? It's it's it's a closed
01:12:23
wall garden kind of situation.
01:12:26
>> And I think that that there is this kind
01:12:27
of disconnect in people's brains of like
01:12:32
we we've been burned. Social media
01:12:33
burned a lot of us, I think, for for
01:12:36
>> the fact of like for so long I've held
01:12:38
this kind of belief. I'm like,
01:12:40
>> well, it doesn't really matter if I
01:12:41
delete my Facebook because guess what?
01:12:43
They already have all that information
01:12:44
anyways. You know, Amazon's already got
01:12:46
all my information. I I there's nothing
01:12:49
I can do about it, right?
01:12:51
>> The reality is that there but there's
01:12:53
new technologies that in the future can
01:12:55
alleviate some of that. And so it's just
01:12:57
shifting people's mindset to understand
01:13:00
you can own it. You can protect it. It
01:13:02
takes a little bit of work. It's not the
01:13:04
easiest thing right now. There are
01:13:06
people like like your company who I'm
01:13:08
sure are trying to make that easier and
01:13:11
faster and more on board than it has
01:13:13
ever been before. The first time I
01:13:15
bought a piece of a cryptocoin, it was a
01:13:17
nightmare to do. I was convinced that I
01:13:20
had just lost like I didn't even put
01:13:22
that I made 50 bucks, 100 bucks,
01:13:24
something like that. I was like that
01:13:25
that money's gone. I'm never going to
01:13:26
see that ever again. And then guess
01:13:28
what? 24 hours later, I was like, "Oh,
01:13:30
guess what? It's in my wallet." You
01:13:31
know? I was like, "Okay, cool."
01:13:33
>> Um, and if you don't know what I'm
01:13:34
talking about when I'm talking about
01:13:35
crypto, like, it's okay. Like, it's it's
01:13:37
jargon. It's, you know,
01:13:39
>> I've done I've done a little bit of it
01:13:41
cuz the I I in my in my manic phase, I
01:13:45
was like, I'm going to create a
01:13:46
memecoin. Like, I'm going to figure out
01:13:48
how to do this. And then as I got into
01:13:50
it, I was like, this thing is a [ __ ]
01:13:52
scam. Um, and people are losing. so much
01:13:56
money. But I know also that there's like
01:13:59
there's a lot of good that can come out
01:14:01
of it, right? There's a lot of good with
01:14:03
having a a a a stable um currency that
01:14:07
is worldwide and has the same value no
01:14:10
matter where you're at in the world. Um
01:14:12
like things like that that that used to
01:14:14
be the British pound. Now it's the US
01:14:16
American dollar and soon that's going to
01:14:19
be some version of cryptocurrency,
01:14:21
right? And and it's one of those things
01:14:24
that like there's still parts of me that
01:14:27
doesn't like it. I don't like it, but it
01:14:30
is going to happen, right? And that's
01:14:33
how I feel a lot about the AI space is
01:14:37
I get
01:14:40
the concerns, right? I get the like
01:14:42
they're building data centers and it
01:14:44
uses so much power. Um, and we're
01:14:47
concerned about AI taking over the
01:14:49
world. And there's sometimes I have to
01:14:51
sit back and be like,
01:14:55
I can't control that. It is outside of
01:14:59
my control, right? And if there's a way
01:15:02
that I get to influence
01:15:07
how that world gets created, so it is
01:15:10
safer, so it is based on consent, so it
01:15:13
is um actually helping people instead of
01:15:18
hurting them,
01:15:21
um then then yes, I'm I'm on board with
01:15:24
those parts. But you know, an example of
01:15:28
this is is early
01:15:31
I'm going to keep referring to my manic
01:15:32
phase because apparently I did way more
01:15:34
than I even thought I did. But like I
01:15:36
was I was experimenting with like what
01:15:38
if I made songs about my trauma, right?
01:15:41
That would resonate with people, right?
01:15:43
So I went to an AI website and I was I
01:15:47
put this stuff in. Dude, it made a song
01:15:50
that made me cry. It was so real and so
01:15:54
visceral and so like
01:15:57
I could not have come up with the
01:15:59
pairings of words and the and the
01:16:01
imagery that it it did because that's
01:16:03
not my expertise. That's not my forte.
01:16:06
So I was like this is amazing and I was
01:16:08
trying to share it with people and then
01:16:11
I hit this point of like
01:16:15
I started getting out more which is
01:16:17
another part of the journey. I started
01:16:20
getting out more.
01:16:22
I started going to see live music and I
01:16:26
was like,
01:16:27
this is part of the human experience
01:16:30
that I don't want to lose. And so I like
01:16:33
deleted that. I'm not doing that
01:16:35
anymore. I'm not like when I I'm still
01:16:37
on Spotify. I need to switch everybody
01:16:39
over to title or something. But but like
01:16:41
one of the things I hate about Spotify
01:16:42
right now is that they are constantly
01:16:44
suggesting AI songs, AI generated songs.
01:16:48
And maybe there's a person behind this,
01:16:50
maybe there's not. But I don't I don't
01:16:52
listen to music to hear
01:16:55
an AI band in an AI voice. I listen to
01:16:59
hear Noah talk about his experience,
01:17:02
right? That's what I connect with. I
01:17:04
want to connect with a human. Um, so I
01:17:08
think there's there's areas of that to
01:17:10
where we can use AI to help us,
01:17:15
but we should never ever
01:17:19
be putting
01:17:21
humans
01:17:22
sharing their experiences at risk
01:17:26
because we're running towards a
01:17:28
simulation.
01:17:29
The other important thing I think that a
01:17:31
lot of people don't understand is that
01:17:33
all AI gets lumped together and the
01:17:36
reality is there are very different
01:17:37
forms of AI.
01:17:38
>> Yes. If
01:17:39
>> you've ever used Google even before the
01:17:42
AI stuff came out
01:17:44
>> you you used a form of AI and so
01:17:46
>> the the they vary in the levels of power
01:17:49
that they consume and all these
01:17:50
different things. Generative AI is the
01:17:52
big kind of scary thing that a lot of
01:17:54
people talk about and that's what
01:17:56
they're referring to a lot of time.
01:17:57
That's what you're talking about with
01:17:57
the song creation. I've done that too,
01:17:59
right?
01:17:59
>> I played around with it.
01:18:01
>> It's really cool. It is a cool
01:18:03
technology,
01:18:04
>> but like you, I got to the same point of
01:18:05
like, now this is human creation and I
01:18:08
want to as best I can, I want to leave
01:18:11
it up to the humans.
01:18:12
>> And so, it's figuring out where the good
01:18:15
comes from it and the bad comes from it
01:18:17
and those types of things. So again,
01:18:20
that is where a lot of what we're
01:18:22
talking about owning your own data and
01:18:24
those types of things and how can AI
01:18:26
influence, you know, uh the health care
01:18:29
system, a lot of those things happen
01:18:30
inside of walled garden large language
01:18:34
models that are sectioned off. They're
01:18:36
not training across the entirety of the
01:18:38
internet. They are locked into a server
01:18:40
set. And you know, again, these are very
01:18:43
technical terms. If you don't know what
01:18:44
we're talking about, that's okay. Just
01:18:46
understand it. It's it's getting put in
01:18:48
a walled garden that is not
01:18:51
it's not being trained. It's not you
01:18:53
know you're yeah of course you can feed
01:18:55
your health insurance stuff into chatbt
01:18:57
and I would not do that because guess
01:18:59
what that is going to train and then
01:19:01
everybody has access to it. That's just
01:19:03
a dumb move. Please don't do that. Um
01:19:06
but but there are these other areas of
01:19:08
where it's like it can be sectioned off.
01:19:10
The other thing that I'll say about this
01:19:12
too is that
01:19:14
>> it can become more environmentally
01:19:17
friendly and that is a big push that a
01:19:19
lot of people do have. So while we are
01:19:21
hearing about all of the drinking water
01:19:23
that is getting tainted, I live in
01:19:25
Tennessee in Memphis, Tennessee,
01:19:27
>> XAI is down there. I'm not an Elon
01:19:30
fanboy by any stretch of the
01:19:32
imagination. What they're doing down
01:19:33
there is really [ __ ] up and it's
01:19:35
screwed up and they're breaking the law
01:19:37
in a lot of cases.
01:19:38
>> Yep.
01:19:39
>> That can get
01:19:39
>> Same here. I live SpaceX.
01:19:43
Um, the Boring Company and X are
01:19:45
headquartered less than five miles from
01:19:47
my house and our river pollution is off
01:19:50
the charts because of what they're
01:19:52
dumping in there. Like it's just a fact,
01:19:55
right? And it it is terrible. But yeah,
01:19:58
>> I'm sorry I interrupted you. Continue.
01:19:59
>> No, no, I just it can get better is what
01:20:02
I I guess what I'm saying. And there is
01:20:04
hope for it to get better and
01:20:06
>> we always find ways to clean things up.
01:20:09
That's
01:20:10
That's the reality. Hopefully, we do it
01:20:11
sooner rather than later. And so, look
01:20:13
for those people who are talking about
01:20:15
those things because
01:20:16
>> yes,
01:20:17
>> that's important. It feels like it's not
01:20:18
happening and that that conversation is
01:20:20
not happening. It really is. It just
01:20:23
>> it's a lot quieter. We talked about it
01:20:24
earlier with the way that social media
01:20:26
is. It's always going to push the
01:20:28
negative. It's not going to push the
01:20:30
positive. And so,
01:20:31
>> you really have to go digging for it
01:20:33
because good stuff is happening in the
01:20:34
world every single day. and we are
01:20:37
missing out on it because it is not
01:20:39
being shown. And so
01:20:41
>> if you like me get worn out with turning
01:20:44
on the news and it's just all bad and
01:20:45
it's just like I promise you like go
01:20:48
pick up a local newspaper, go like to
01:20:50
your local library and like we have like
01:20:52
a library thing that they put out that's
01:20:54
our local area. Always good things in
01:20:56
there of like this person is helping
01:20:58
this and this is happening. There's a
01:21:00
lot of good in the world.
01:21:02
>> There's a lot of bad in the world too,
01:21:03
but there's a lot of good stuff
01:21:05
happening in the world. And so go seek
01:21:07
that out. I mean, like we were talking
01:21:09
about good in the world right here,
01:21:11
>> you got diagnosed with ADHD. You've made
01:21:13
some changes in your life. Like things
01:21:16
are better, right? It's it's it's a
01:21:18
positive. It's not a negative.
01:21:19
>> Yeah. And and AI was part of that
01:21:21
journey for me, right? Like I
01:21:23
>> I have chat GPT open and I have a it's
01:21:27
not listening to us, but I have a um I
01:21:30
have an ADHD coach, right? a agent or
01:21:34
project or whatever they call it, right?
01:21:36
To where I've I have uploaded my
01:21:37
diagnosis. I've I've I go in there and I
01:21:40
ask like based on the conversations that
01:21:44
you know we've had over the past two
01:21:45
weeks, um would you recommend any
01:21:49
changes to medication cuz I'm talking to
01:21:50
my psychiatrist tomorrow, right? But I
01:21:53
also go to my wife and I ask the same
01:21:55
thing, right? Because AI doesn't know
01:21:57
everything about me. Um, but it it has
01:22:01
been a tool for me that has been super
01:22:04
useful. And I want to go back just real
01:22:06
quick to the concept of um the walled
01:22:10
gardens, right? Because one of the
01:22:12
things my company is doing is we are
01:22:14
partnering with OpenAI and we are adding
01:22:18
a health connector. And again, it's
01:22:20
completely based on um consent. Like
01:22:23
this is not hey here's all the
01:22:26
information we have about everyone who's
01:22:27
ever used our product. It's yours now.
01:22:30
It is literally you have to go in and
01:22:33
you have to consent and say yes for the
01:22:35
purposes of this walled off garden I am
01:22:39
going to allow you to access my health
01:22:41
data and then bring that in and then it
01:22:44
be informed and you be able to say oh
01:22:48
like
01:22:50
I now know what my blood pressure looked
01:22:53
like for the last 15 years because it's
01:22:56
spread across 15 different portals and
01:22:59
it's you know it's unreachable in a lot
01:23:02
of cases for me to know what my health
01:23:05
trends have been over this time right so
01:23:08
it's not I get it it's not for everyone
01:23:11
right if you bubble up another layer
01:23:13
it's like well do I really trust Sam
01:23:14
Alman do I really trust open AI like I
01:23:17
can't answer that question for anyone
01:23:19
else other than myself and it's a gray
01:23:22
area for me so but
01:23:24
>> people are already using it so again how
01:23:27
can we make it safer How can we make it
01:23:31
more consentbased? How can we do things
01:23:34
that are like you said,
01:23:37
um, not pulling from the entire internet
01:23:40
to where it's going to tell you like
01:23:43
it's going to go find that one article
01:23:45
that's like don't vaccinate your kids
01:23:48
for measles and it's going to it's going
01:23:50
to parrot that back at you as actual
01:23:52
health advice, right? We've got to get
01:23:53
away from that. And that's why, like you
01:23:56
said, having different AIs that do
01:23:59
different things are essentially
01:24:02
specialists in this area. Um that's
01:24:05
that's the direction that we need to
01:24:08
continue to go in so that there are
01:24:11
these walled gardens to where it's
01:24:12
helpful in the areas that we want it to
01:24:14
be helpful in and we take it out of the
01:24:16
spaces that is going to ultimately hurt
01:24:19
our creativity and our our our human
01:24:23
experience.
01:24:25
And I want to circle back I know we're
01:24:27
almost out of time. I want to circle
01:24:29
back to something else that I think was
01:24:32
really foundational for me in this whole
01:24:35
like figuring out getting diagnosed and
01:24:38
then having this period of like I am
01:24:41
just trying to connect to the world
01:24:42
around me in so many ways.
01:24:48
I was looking for friends
01:24:50
cuz I didn't have friends. I had people
01:24:54
that I talked and worked with on a
01:24:57
computer screen for eight hours a day
01:25:00
and that was my connection to the
01:25:02
outside world. It's what happened to us
01:25:04
during CO. It's what's happened with
01:25:06
completely remote companies, and there's
01:25:08
pros and cons.
01:25:11
But if you're listening to this and you
01:25:14
don't have real in-person friends that
01:25:18
you can call and you can say, "Hey,
01:25:22
want to come over and play a game
01:25:23
tonight?"
01:25:24
Find ways to do that. Because that was a
01:25:27
lot of what I couldn't I couldn't say it
01:25:29
at the time, but that was why I was
01:25:31
starting businesses. That's why I was I
01:25:33
was like, I'm going to become a content
01:25:35
creator, right? And go on the internet
01:25:37
and and connect with people. That's why
01:25:39
I got so sucked into social media
01:25:40
because I thought those connections were
01:25:43
what I needed. And what I needed was a
01:25:47
hug. What I needed was to get out and
01:25:51
and watch a band that five other people
01:25:54
are watching and get up on stage with
01:25:56
them and and like actually have real
01:26:00
human interactions. Um, one of the most
01:26:04
amazing things that's happened to me in
01:26:06
the last 6 months is I joined a baseball
01:26:09
team and Sandlot baseball is making a
01:26:12
resurgence. I played baseball when I was
01:26:15
nine and 10 and haven't played since.
01:26:18
Um, and it's a friend group and we get
01:26:22
together, we see each other in person.
01:26:25
like tomorrow we're going to go to our
01:26:27
home field which is full of weeds and
01:26:30
and like do some field work together and
01:26:33
get our hands dirty. And those are
01:26:36
experiences that the technology that we
01:26:40
have today is making it easier and
01:26:43
easier not to do and not to have those
01:26:46
kinds of relationships. But we are
01:26:48
[ __ ] mammals and we are pack animals
01:26:52
and we need other people. And that is
01:26:57
everything else aside that's happened
01:26:59
over the last year and a half. That is
01:27:03
the number one thing I think that has
01:27:05
helped me is actually finding other
01:27:09
humans that I get to see a couple times
01:27:12
a week and
01:27:15
hang out with. It's amazing.
01:27:18
>> It It changes everything like it does to
01:27:22
and and that physical
01:27:24
>> touch is like
01:27:27
>> it it Yeah. It's what we've been talking
01:27:30
about.
01:27:31
>> Yes.
01:27:31
>> Humans need human experience.
01:27:33
>> Yes.
01:27:34
>> Can't we can't replace that. And so, you
01:27:37
know, that is where that it's so
01:27:39
important. And so, yeah, go find that.
01:27:41
If you don't got it, like go find it.
01:27:44
it. I don't want to say it's easy. It's
01:27:47
It's like an easy hard It's not It's not
01:27:50
hard to go out and be around people.
01:27:53
It's harder to go out and be around
01:27:54
people and build genuine connection.
01:27:57
>> And so,
01:27:57
>> yes,
01:27:58
>> but it's it's good and it's important
01:28:00
and do it. And so, text your buddy
01:28:03
today, text your friends,
01:28:04
>> say, "Let's go get coffee. Let's go do
01:28:06
something stupid. Let's, you know, come
01:28:08
over, play a game, you know, whatever it
01:28:11
might be." like go do that because it's
01:28:13
it yeah it it could make or break your
01:28:16
whole week I think.
01:28:17
>> Yeah.
01:28:18
>> So or B I got this has been so much fun.
01:28:22
Is there anything else have we got? I we
01:28:24
went all over the place which I think
01:28:25
>> we did. We did
01:28:28
you had an ADA HD experience today. Um
01:28:32
and yeah, Rusty's telling me that uh
01:28:34
it's it's it's time to be done. But
01:28:38
dude, I'm so again, thank you for using
01:28:41
your platform to talk about these
01:28:43
things. Thank you for
01:28:47
helping drive the boat that you're on.
01:28:49
Like, I see it. I see you. I see the
01:28:52
difference that you're making. And
01:28:54
you've made a difference in my life. And
01:28:56
in just understanding that my homeschool
01:28:59
experience was not uh it was not unique,
01:29:02
but it was also not the only homeschool
01:29:05
experience. and that other people are
01:29:08
taking it more seriously and are
01:29:10
thinking through the the cultural and
01:29:13
the um
01:29:15
impacts that it has on a child's
01:29:18
development when they are isolated. And
01:29:21
I see families around here, you know,
01:29:23
that that are choosing to homeschool and
01:29:25
I see a more intentional
01:29:28
um mindset towards the experience than
01:29:32
than what I had. So, I am super grateful
01:29:35
about that and thanks for having me on
01:29:38
and talking about all the things.
01:29:40
>> Of course. Yeah. I think this is going
01:29:42
to have to be an annual thing now at
01:29:43
this point. We'll just do our yearly our
01:29:45
yearly checkup.
01:29:47
>> Oh my god. I don't know what's going to
01:29:48
change in the next year for me, but
01:29:51
that's a little anxiety producing, but
01:29:53
also I'm here for it. Let's do it.
01:29:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh to the audience,
01:29:58
thank you guys for sticking around.
01:29:59
Hopefully you stuck around this whole
01:30:00
time. If you did, leave a comment down
01:30:02
below. Let me know you stuck around. Let
01:30:03
me know your favorite part of the
01:30:04
episode. And as always, all the links,
01:30:07
all the things will be down below. Uh if
01:30:11
you want to be on the show, if you've
01:30:12
got a story to share, you know how to
01:30:14
reach me. [email protected].
01:30:16
Shoot me an email. Give me a little
01:30:18
blurb about your story and then we'll
01:30:19
connect. We'll start chatting. I promise
01:30:21
I don't bite. RB came back for a second
01:30:23
a second uh run through the gamut. So, I
01:30:25
can't be that bad. Okay.
01:30:27
>> Not at all. Not at all. No. I I've
01:30:29
really enjoyed it.
01:30:30
>> Yeah. And uh yeah, until next time,
01:30:33
we'll see you. Peace.
