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Hey, hey, hey. What is good my exhies?
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It is your boy Jacob Gooden, and we are
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back for a special anniversary episode.
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A happy oneyear birthday to the
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Exhomeschoolers club. I can't believe
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it's been a year already. Uh it's
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actually technically been a few weeks,
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over a year, but I missed it. But it's
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okay. We're we're celebrating today.
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Today is the birthday party uh of the
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podcast. I can't believe it's been a
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year. It's been an insane year. I've
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done way more with this show. Uh all
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thanks to you guys. Um, so round of
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applause for you. Uh, but I'm I'm so
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stoked for this special episode. Uh, I
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brought back the OG, the the first
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interview of this podcast. Uh, my good
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friend, arguably my bestest homeschool
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friend, uh, Carrie France is back for a
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special episode. We're going to be
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chatting about all the things we didn't
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get to do as homeschoolers. Okay? All
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the things we missed out on from media,
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right? books and movies and uh music and
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all all kinds of pop culture stuff that
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we missed out on to we even chat a
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little bit about like dating and
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relationships uh just the things that we
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missed out on as homeschoolers and we
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kind of got to experience a little bit
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later in life. But it's so much fun.
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Carrie and I always have a good time. I
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hope that translates well for you guys.
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Before I turn it over to the past
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versions of ourselves, I have a favor to
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ask. And that is whatever you're
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listening to this on, whatever you're
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watching this, consuming this on, do me
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a favor. Go down in the comments, go
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down in the review section, leave a
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little happy birthday message and tell
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me not only happy birthday, but also
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tell me about your favorite moment of
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the Exometers Club. If you've been us
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with us from the day one, whether you
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joined along the way, whatever it's
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been, hit me with what has been one of
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your favorite moments of of the show, of
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the episodes, what a topic, a person, an
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event, anything that's been super
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impactful for you. I would love to hear
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it. Um, and I'd love to know, you know,
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what what can I bring you more of uh to
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to keep this thing going. So, with that,
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I'm going to turn it over to the past
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version of myself, to the past version
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of Carrie, and uh yeah, let's have a
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good time.
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[Music]
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For those of you who don't know you, I
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mean, Carrie France is one of my best
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homeschool friends from back in the day.
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She's gone on vacation with my family.
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We've spent a bunch of time at each
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other's houses. We went to prom
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together. All that stuff we talked about
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in our last episode, which was like I
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think the second episode of this
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podcast. So, if you haven't listened to
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that, go back and listen to that episode
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cuz it was a lot of fun. That's not what
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we're going to talk about today. So, I'm
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not even going to ask you like your
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homeschool journey or anything like
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that. We're going to just talk on like
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stuff we weren't allowed to do as goody
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shoe Christian homeschool kids. And uh I
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think it's going to be a lot of fun.
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>> Yeah, I think so, too. I'm excited to
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share and see if anybody else relates to
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the same sort of upbringing that we had
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about stuff we were allowed to do and
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then the stuff we weren't allowed to do.
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>> Where do we where do we even start? I
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feel like I mean we could go down the
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books rabbit hole or the movies rabbit
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hole but like I don't know I mean was
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there is there anything that comes to
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mind like top of mind for you when you
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go okay like I wasn't allowed to do that
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and then when I became an adult like I
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realized like why wasn't I allowed to do
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that or
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>> yeah I mean just I guess starting with
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media is one of the first topics there
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was a lot of media books TV movies that
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were not allowed in our house I think A
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big one that a lot of other
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homeschoolers can probably relate to is
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Harry Potter. Uh we were not allowed to
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watch or read Harry Potter. I did have
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some friends who were fortunate enough
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to be allowed to read uh the books and
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watch the movies and I was always
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slightly envious that they were, you
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know, ahead of ahead of uh am I trying
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to say that they were super immersed in
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the popular culture and uh but yeah, we
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weren't allowed to watch or read it. I
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was told that it had a lot of witchcraft
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and um that it just it wasn't it wasn't
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good uh things to consume.
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>> Same same reasoning like too much
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witchcraft, too much wizardry. I think
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what my parents really struggled with
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was that
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>> because like I was allowed to read Lord
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of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia was
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okay. Like and that also has wizards,
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witches, like that has magical elements
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to it, magical beasts, things that do
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not exist, like very fantasy. I think
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the difference was that Harry Potter, it
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was like much more
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like on a day-by-day basis that they
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used it and like they use it for like
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very like little things like I'm trying
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to even think like like they have Well,
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I'm I'm watching the movies currently.
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Yeah. But like little spells like like
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they like they would do the one to like
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figure out like
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>> like to pull something to like if
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they're at the library and they're like
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looking for a specific book, they would
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like have a spell and they'd do it and
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it would come to them. as opposed to
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>> Right. Exactly. It was like cheat codes
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to life as opposed to like Lord of the
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Rings like magic does get used but it
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tends to be in like this much bigger
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grander scheme and same with like
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Chronicles of Narnia. Like it's very
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like it's kind of this like big grand
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scheme picture of magic. And I So I
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think that might have something to do
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with
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>> maybe why our parents were not okay with
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it.
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>> It it could be. I know. I know. For me
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personally, my my parents early on
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realized that I would get nightmares a
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lot if we watched something that had any
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sort of element of scary to it. Um,
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which again wasn't much. I'm trying to
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think of like this will out me really
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hard, but there is this they noticed
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that I got pretty severe nightmares when
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I watched this certain Sesame Street
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episode,
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which uh yeah, Sesame Street. You hear
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that and you think nightmares? How? But
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it was uh about the boy who cried wolf
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and whoever created the wolf puppet just
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it still terrifies me to this day.
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Anyways, I would get nightmares whenever
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we would watch that specific episode. I
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think Dennis Quaid is in it. It uh this
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just unlocked like a whole memory. But
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uh yeah, Dennis Quaid is in it and the
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wolf puppet was just very scary. Big
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wide eyes like and I would leave the
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room every time we would watch that. Um,
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and I started getting nightmares. And so
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I think my parents started realizing
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like, oh, um, nightmares,
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she'll get nightmares if we show her
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anything scary. Not that they had plans
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to show us scary movies ever because
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they don't like scary movies themselves,
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but uh, I think that they were just very
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careful about all the content that we
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watched. And the thing with Harry
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Potter, what I the sense that I got from
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them was that yes, it's good versus
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evil, but there's a lot of evil in those
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books and movies. And there's a lot of
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magic, like you said. Um, the kids are
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very pnicity and will use their spells
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to do things that I'm sure they didn't
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want us to feel inspired to do. Uh, you
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know, sneak around and and use the cheat
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codes essentially. I mean,
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unfortunately, we don't have spells,
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which would be awesome, but uh in real
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life, you know, applying that to our
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real lives, but Chronicles of Narnia,
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I'm I'm not I I hate to say this in
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front of all the homeschoolers watching,
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but I'm not as familiar with Lord of the
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Rings as I think a lot of other people
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are.
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>> We didn't watch the movies growing up.
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We read the books. My mom would read the
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books out loud to us, and I enjoyed
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them, but we were really big Chronicles
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of Narnia fans. Um, my parents are huge
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fans of CS Lewis. And when I compare
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Chronicles of Narnia and Harry Potter to
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me now, they're not they're not super
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different. There's a lot of magic.
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There's a lot of good versus evil. Uh,
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but there's there's a ton of magic and
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bad guys and like you said, witches and
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wizards and Chronicles of Narnia. I just
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think that because Chronicles of Narnia
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was based on a biblical story that there
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was more incentive for us to enjoy that
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versus Harry Potter.
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>> Yeah. I mean, you're talking about like
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Lord of the Rings, obviously very like
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lot of biblical references in there.
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Same with Chronicles of Narnia. I mean,
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CS Lewis, Gerald Tolken, historically
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big Christians.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Wrote stuff. Had a lot to say about
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Christianity. Like, so yeah. I mean, I
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get it. I get it from that perspective.
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I'm with you that like now like I read
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the books or I watch the movies of like
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Chronicles of Narnia versus Harry Potter
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and I'm like these are kind of the same
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thing. Like they're it's you know it's a
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little different. I think for me now
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having asked my parents about Harry
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Potter,
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their response to me has more now to do
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with they're like, "Well, so and so told
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us this and we trusted them and so we
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didn't do it. they didn't let you watch
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that or consume that.
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>> And what's funny is now both of them
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have read the books or some of the books
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and they've watched the movies and
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they're like, "This is one of the
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greatest stories ever." Like, it's
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they're like, "We love it. It's
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fantastic. It's so much fun." So, have
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you have you gotten your parents to
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dabble in Harry Potter?
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>> That's a good question. And I don't
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think so. I don't think they've read it.
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I don't even know if they've watched it.
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And this might have to be uh a part
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three episode where my parents uh give
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me their honest review of Harry Potter.
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But um no, I to be honest with you, I I
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don't think they have. Um I have, you
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know, as an adult read the books. I just
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recently, I think last Christmas, did a
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whole binge of all the movies. Um it was
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a lot. It was a long long binge, but um
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they're fun books. They're great. It's a
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great story. Um, there's action, there's
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adventure, there's romance, there's, you
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know, good versus evil. It it's it's
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great. And, you know, I am sad that I
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missed, you know, in its prime when
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Harry Potter was coming out and
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everybody was stoked to read the books.
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Um, because it's just it's a really
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magical story and I I loved it. Um, and
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so I I think my parents would like it,
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too. I mean, they really enjoy obviously
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they my dad's a huge fan of CS Lewis.
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Um, I have read some of CS Lewis's books
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and they are really good. He's a
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fantastic author and
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um, I I still love Chronicles of Narnia.
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I still wish they would make more
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movies. Uh,
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>> still hoping for, you know,
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>> the uh, Silver, my personal favorite
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book. And yeah, it's a great story. I
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think they could Hollywood could do some
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really fun things with Yeah.
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>> with that story. So
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>> I think too um
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you CS Lewis one of because a lot of
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people if you read the books now like
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we're adults we're like almost in our
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30s at this point like we like
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those books are they're very kitty books
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and like they as opposed to if you read
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Harry Potter through it's interesting
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because they kind of age up as you
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>> they do
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>> grow up with it right like you read the
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first book and you're like okay this is
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a kids book by the time you get to the
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end you're like okay this is pretty
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>> it's heavy it's It's written a lot
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different. It's darker. All that kind of
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thing.
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>> CS Lewis has another book series called
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It's I think it's just referred to as
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the Space Trilogy, and I'm blanking on
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the names of it right now, but it is
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it's sci-fi related.
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>> It Yes, we read those. God, of course,
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I'm blanking on the name as well.
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>> Um, it's all sci-fi in in space, I
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think. Right.
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>> Yeah. But it's like the story. What's
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interesting is the parallel in that one
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is a lot more like Garden of Eden early
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>> early Bible kind of a thing. But they're
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really cool stories. So even if you're
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not religious, like super interesting
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stories, very sci-fi, like I love sci-fi
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is my thing. Planet of the Apes, Star
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Wars, all Star Trek, like all that
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stuff. I love that stuff. So
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>> I'm still holding out hope that someday
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those get made into a movie. Um cuz I
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just think they would be really cool.
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And the stories are a lot more I think
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they're more mature than Chronicles of
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Narnia.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Again, still love that. I was also gonna
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bring up Did you ever read the Percy
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Jackson books?
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>> I didn't, but my little sister Ellia did
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>> and she was the biggest fan of those
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books. That and The Maze Runner. Um, I
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was more into the dystopian.
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Not that Percy Jackson. Well, no, Percy
00:12:17
Jackson isn't dystopian at all. I was
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more into the like Hunger Games,
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Divergent.
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>> Um, those when those were coming out, I
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was a big fan. But Percy Jackson was my
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little sister's thing. She wore the what
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was it the what's the camp called that
00:12:32
they go to? She would wear the camp
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shirts to like homechool classes,
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>> half blood camp or something like that.
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>> Yes. Half Blood. She was always making
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references to them. She I think she
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still has a special place in her heart
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for that that series because I I I never
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read it and I I' I've heard they're
00:12:48
good. I should add that to my reading
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list.
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>> They're they're fantastic. If you like
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Greek mythology, like I loved Greek
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mythology and I think it's hilarious
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that my mom even really kind of let me
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read Greek mythology. Um I think she
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just kind of was under the impression
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she's like, "Well, Jacob knows this
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isn't like like a religion kind of a
00:13:07
thing." Um, and then as I got older, I
00:13:09
was like, "Oh, people like actually
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worshiped these gods and stuff." So
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anyway, but I loved Percy Jackson
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because I loved Greek mythology. I had a
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whole like
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>> encyclopedia set basically of Greek
00:13:20
mythology stories. Um, and then uh yeah,
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and then Percy Jackson just like
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expanded on that and I was like, "Oh
00:13:25
yeah, this is like fantastic." It's like
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what if the kids of all of these gods
00:13:29
like had superpowers in the real world?
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Like it's a fantastic story.
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>> It's a great idea. It reminds me of like
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how kids are now feeling about
00:13:39
Descendants. I don't know if you've
00:13:40
heard of that, but like they're the kids
00:13:42
of the Disney villains, I believe.
00:13:44
>> Oh, and a lot of younger kids that I've
00:13:48
um that I know or like my boyfriend's uh
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sisters,
00:13:53
what are they called? My boyfriend's
00:13:55
nieces and nephews. Um really like it uh
00:13:58
descendants. And so I that kind of
00:14:00
reminded me of what you said about Percy
00:14:02
Jackson. It's just just a creative story
00:14:04
and a cool way to educate you about
00:14:06
Greek mythology, but also in a way that
00:14:08
is fun and adventurous and that kids
00:14:10
will understand. I think the other
00:14:12
element that maybe our parents missed
00:14:15
out on too, like this was something that
00:14:17
when I got older, my dad did better at
00:14:19
was like if there were books that he
00:14:22
that my parents were like h kind of on
00:14:23
the fence about like letting us read or
00:14:25
movies even sometimes like he would
00:14:28
watch or listen or read the book before
00:14:30
me and then or with me and then we could
00:14:34
talk about it
00:14:35
>> and um yeah, like that's how that's why
00:14:37
I read the Da Vinci Code and when I had
00:14:39
him on the show we talked about that.
00:14:41
But it was cool because that book was
00:14:42
very controversial when we were kids cuz
00:14:45
people thought it was against the Bible
00:14:49
when in reality it's just like a fiction
00:14:51
book. Really cool. Very um uh National
00:14:55
Treasureesque to it. So, you know, if
00:14:57
you like National Treasure,
00:14:59
>> I love National Treasure. Those movies,
00:15:01
I don't care what anyone says. Uh those
00:15:04
movies are top tier and I still like
00:15:06
will watch them to this day. Uh, but
00:15:09
what you said about Da Vinci Code, like
00:15:11
not that my parents necessarily told me
00:15:12
this, I just kind of gathered this
00:15:14
information on my own based on going to
00:15:16
church and hearing what other people
00:15:17
said about the Da Vinci Code. It in my
00:15:21
brain still that's a no no book that or
00:15:23
no movie or or you know, and it's so
00:15:26
funny that you said that because I still
00:15:29
have that notion of like nope, you're
00:15:31
not allowed to read that book. You're
00:15:32
not allowed to watch that movie. And I
00:15:34
don't know anything about what it's
00:15:35
about. what you just described sounds
00:15:37
like something I would probably really
00:15:39
enjoy, but just growing up hearing that
00:15:41
that, you know, this is this is not an
00:15:44
accurate depiction of what we believe or
00:15:46
this is going against the Bible like you
00:15:48
said. And so in my head it's like, all
00:15:50
right, we're not even going to touch it.
00:15:52
Or now as an adult, I'm like, "Oh,
00:15:54
>> I could if it's National Treasureesque,
00:15:57
I'd be down to read that." You know,
00:15:59
>> that whole series, he has a whole
00:16:01
series. I mean, there's Angels and
00:16:02
Demons, there's uh Da Vinci Code,
00:16:05
there's um The Lost Symbol, Inferno,
00:16:09
and they're all very
00:16:12
they I read The Lost Symbol first.
00:16:14
That's the third book in the series. And
00:16:16
um
00:16:17
>> that one is very National Treasure
00:16:20
coded. Like it is, but like I mean
00:16:22
you're reading about the Freemasons and
00:16:24
you're reading about all of this history
00:16:26
about like US and and obviously it's
00:16:28
fiction so some of it is a little blown
00:16:30
out of proportion but like it's very
00:16:32
you're like I'm I'm reading Nick Cage
00:16:35
like go and steal the Declaration of
00:16:37
Independence basically. And uh and so I
00:16:40
read that book first and I was like I'm
00:16:41
hooked. And then I realized oh the Da
00:16:43
Vinci Code is the same character but
00:16:45
just totally different circumstances.
00:16:47
And it's I would argue it's just as
00:16:49
good. I didn't know that about that
00:16:50
book. Again, like I hear the title and
00:16:52
my brain just goes off as like, nope.
00:16:55
So,
00:16:55
>> I still have that, too. There's other
00:16:57
books that I'm like, you know, be at a
00:16:59
bookstore or whatever and I'm like, oh
00:17:00
yeah, no, I know that that author's bad.
00:17:03
Move on next one, you know, kind of a
00:17:04
thing. And I'm like, it it's been
00:17:06
interesting kind of like
00:17:07
>> break out of that now and be like, no, I
00:17:09
should just like read this. You know,
00:17:12
>> what's it going to who's it going to
00:17:13
hurt?
00:17:14
>> It's so true. It's like you you may read
00:17:17
it and it may be, you know, depending on
00:17:19
the genre of the book. Like I know if I
00:17:21
read a super scary book, I will still as
00:17:24
an adult get nightmares. So, I'm just
00:17:25
not going to, you know, that part of me
00:17:27
is still the same regardless. My parents
00:17:29
were very right in noticing that early
00:17:31
on is that, you know, nightmares were a
00:17:34
big thing uh for me. I I remember us one
00:17:38
time when we were kids going over to our
00:17:40
neighbor's house and they were watching
00:17:42
Jumanji the movie uh which was a movie
00:17:45
we were not allowed to watch and I
00:17:46
didn't know anything about it and so I
00:17:48
was like all right I'll watch it like
00:17:50
whatever. Um, and that movie, I mean,
00:17:53
for a kid is pretty scary. And we came
00:17:55
back home and my mom was very
00:17:57
disappointed in us. And we were we were
00:17:58
in trouble for watching that movie. And
00:18:00
I I didn't understand why cuz I I was
00:18:02
just like, it was fine. Like I I liked
00:18:05
it. Well, that night I had pretty bad
00:18:07
nightmares that I think were involving
00:18:08
turning into a monkey and giant
00:18:11
alligators, you know, everything that
00:18:12
happens in that movie. And you know, I I
00:18:16
just remember thinking kind of like, oh,
00:18:19
>> there is she does have a reason for some
00:18:22
things or some rules that she sets.
00:18:24
>> She knew that that movie was going to
00:18:26
give me nightmares. I don't know if
00:18:28
she's ever seen Jamanji herself, but she
00:18:30
knew that that, you know, she probably
00:18:31
read reviews on that movie and realized
00:18:33
that it was a little bit too intense for
00:18:36
someone of my age. And and that's just
00:18:38
my experience. You know, I I had friends
00:18:40
growing up who were allowed to watch
00:18:43
every scary movie and every R-rated
00:18:45
movie because that's what their parents
00:18:46
watched. And that's I mean, my
00:18:48
boyfriend, that's what he grew up in. He
00:18:50
was seeing, you know, really scary um
00:18:54
sci-fi, every genre of movie when he was
00:18:56
very young.
00:18:58
>> And that's just what he knew, what he
00:19:00
grew up with. I was very different. I I
00:19:03
do another memory that I wanted to share
00:19:05
that I thought was funny was, you know,
00:19:08
our our parents did their best in
00:19:10
homeschooling. I can't imagine that it
00:19:12
was easy at any point. Uh and so they
00:19:15
were just taking it day by day, but I
00:19:18
remember my mom bringing home a movie
00:19:20
from the library and we were learning
00:19:21
about um World War II at the time. We
00:19:23
were learning about the Holocaust and
00:19:26
she brought home a movie from the
00:19:27
library. I can't remember what it was
00:19:29
called now, but I remember as a kid just
00:19:33
having this gut feeling that I shouldn't
00:19:34
watch it. And I remember telling her and
00:19:36
being like, "No, that I just don't think
00:19:39
we should watch this." And she was like,
00:19:41
"Well, it's a I think it was a fiction
00:19:43
movie. Like it obviously about the
00:19:46
Holocaust, but not about actual an
00:19:49
actual person during the Holocaust." And
00:19:51
so we watched it and that movie gave me
00:19:55
the most intense nightmares because of
00:19:57
one specific scene in the movie, you
00:20:00
know, depicting someone committing
00:20:03
suicide, you know, in order to not go to
00:20:05
the camps. And I just remember her
00:20:08
having this realization and us talking
00:20:10
about the movie after where she was
00:20:12
like, "Okay, I didn't think, you know, I
00:20:14
thought this was an educational movie. I
00:20:16
didn't think that that was going to be
00:20:18
giving you nightmares, but I should have
00:20:20
listened to
00:20:21
>> that intuition where I knew I knew in my
00:20:24
head. I knew in, you know, my soul,
00:20:26
whatever. Like,
00:20:27
>> that's not let's not watch that. And I
00:20:29
still to this day can picture that vivid
00:20:32
image from the movie. And I have not
00:20:33
watched that movie again. Um because
00:20:36
that one scene just gave me nightmares
00:20:38
for a long time. And so,
00:20:40
>> yeah,
00:20:41
>> that helps me respect my parents and
00:20:45
their choices where, you know, now as an
00:20:47
adult, sure, there's a lot of things
00:20:49
that I'm making up seeing like, you
00:20:52
know, all the movies that my friends
00:20:54
watched growing up, I've never seen. So,
00:20:56
I'm I'm watching Twilight. I'm watching
00:20:58
Harry Potter now. You know, I'm watching
00:21:00
all the movies that we weren't allowed
00:21:01
to. Um,
00:21:04
but it just it helps me respect my
00:21:05
parents in that sense that, you know,
00:21:08
they were doing the best they could.
00:21:09
they tried to have some sort of, you
00:21:13
know, impact or or
00:21:15
influence on the media we were
00:21:17
consuming. And I just remember my mom
00:21:20
saying one time like, you know, you can
00:21:22
always close your eyes because once you
00:21:24
see something that kind of lives in your
00:21:26
brain and I never used to really believe
00:21:27
that. And there are now I'm still seeing
00:21:30
I still see that scene and it still
00:21:33
frightens me. I still that Sesame Street
00:21:35
episode. I'll watch it. I I won't watch
00:21:37
it now. That's just weird. But like if
00:21:39
it were to come up, I would probably not
00:21:41
want to watch the scene with the wolf
00:21:43
because as a kid that traumatized me. So
00:21:46
I do respect my parents in that sense of
00:21:48
I see the reasons why we were sheltered.
00:21:51
I don't really understand why Harry
00:21:53
Potter was forbidden, but at the end of
00:21:55
the day, they had their reasons. I mean,
00:21:57
my parents, same kind of deal. They made
00:21:59
they made choices based off of the
00:22:00
information they had, and they, you
00:22:02
know, were like, "This is a yes, no for
00:22:05
my kid." I think what's interesting when
00:22:07
you talked about kind of being like I
00:22:09
don't want to watch this movie and kind
00:22:10
of I'm not going to say your mom forced
00:22:12
you to watch it but like kind of pushed
00:22:14
to watch it a little bit more
00:22:16
>> like this will be fine I don't see your
00:22:17
problem.
00:22:18
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Having somebody
00:22:19
Yeah. kind of be like it's okay like
00:22:21
don't worry like it's not going to be
00:22:22
that bad. Um, I think that that's kind
00:22:25
of an interesting thing because I've
00:22:26
realized
00:22:28
this is my own therapy coming out, but
00:22:31
like I there was a lot of times where
00:22:33
maybe I wanted to put a boundary in
00:22:36
place to be like I don't want to do this
00:22:37
thing or I don't want to be around this
00:22:39
person or whatever and and that kind of
00:22:41
getting pushed to the side. And so I
00:22:43
think that's something that's I'm I'm
00:22:45
learning now where it's like now I am
00:22:48
able to make those decisions for myself
00:22:50
where I'm like I don't want to watch
00:22:51
this or I don't want to read that book
00:22:53
or whatever. And like that's okay. Like
00:22:56
>> even if everyone else is like this is a
00:22:57
fantastic thing. You should really enjoy
00:22:59
it. You're going to enjoy it. Like it's
00:23:00
going to be so much fun. I don't want
00:23:02
to. And my my my inner gut is telling me
00:23:05
no for a reason. Like I'm just going to
00:23:07
listen and like actually just like you
00:23:09
know if I miss out on something great.
00:23:11
Okay whatever. or like I missed out on
00:23:12
something great, but I don't know. I
00:23:14
would rather listen to my my body
00:23:16
telling me no than be traumatized,
00:23:19
right? Um
00:23:20
>> I feel that way about the most a movie
00:23:23
that just recent not just recently,
00:23:25
within the last several years came out.
00:23:27
I can't remember the name off the top of
00:23:28
my head, but it was very very popular
00:23:30
for being quite uh over-the-top,
00:23:34
scandalous. Certain scenes in that movie
00:23:36
you never see in movies before. Of
00:23:38
course, I'm going to blank. Um, it has
00:23:41
the the one of the leads is Barry
00:23:44
Kyogan. Sabrina Carpenters.
00:23:45
>> Oh, are you thinking of um
00:23:47
>> what's it called?
00:23:48
>> Oh, shoot. Um,
00:23:50
>> but there's some pretty uh gross
00:23:52
>> salt burn.
00:23:53
>> Salt Burn. Thank you. Yeah, I have not
00:23:56
seen Saltburn and I know I'm not going
00:23:57
to watch it because that's some scenes
00:24:00
that I don't have any interest in
00:24:01
seeing. Not that anyone watches it with
00:24:03
an interest, but uh yeah, I just know
00:24:06
that that's not
00:24:08
not going to need to live in my brain. I
00:24:10
don't need to see it.
00:24:11
>> And hey, that's a good I mean, that's a
00:24:13
good intuition to have. I watched it
00:24:15
probably against my own intuition, and
00:24:19
>> there's definitely some things in that
00:24:20
movie that I'm like, okay, that was that
00:24:22
was a lot. But
00:24:24
>> yeah,
00:24:24
>> you also talked about um the the
00:24:26
nightmares and I and I it made me think
00:24:29
of um I used to so
00:24:34
Dary Brooks and I and and my good friend
00:24:37
Ben, we used to we do would sleepovers
00:24:39
at Derry's house and we would stay up
00:24:41
all night watching movies. And he had
00:24:44
there's two elements to the story. So,
00:24:45
so he had uh a DVD player that was like
00:24:49
a Christian DVD player and you could
00:24:52
download movies.
00:24:53
>> Yes.
00:24:53
>> Or I'm sorry, you could download these
00:24:55
like files from the internet and then
00:24:57
when you would watch a movie, it would
00:24:59
skip certain scenes.
00:25:01
>> Yeah. It was pretty amazing technology
00:25:03
at the time. You could put a DVD in and
00:25:05
it knew
00:25:06
what to cut out. It was It was pretty
00:25:08
amazing. I remember those.
00:25:09
>> Yeah. So, it was cool because I got to
00:25:10
watch a bunch of like R-rated movies and
00:25:12
we just take out like the sex scene,
00:25:13
especially when we were in high school.
00:25:14
Our parents were like, "You guys like
00:25:16
war stuff. We don't really care if you
00:25:18
want to watch a bunch of war stuff. We
00:25:19
just don't want the cuss scene and we
00:25:20
don't want uh any sex scenes. So, we
00:25:22
just take all that stuff out."
00:25:24
>> But uh but one of the nights we spent
00:25:26
over, I watched Jurassic Park for the
00:25:28
first time. And it was another movie
00:25:32
that I had not been shown by my parents
00:25:34
because
00:25:36
either because they were lazy or because
00:25:39
they maybe they didn't like it as much
00:25:41
or I don't really think it had like I
00:25:43
know some people don't watch it because
00:25:45
like oh well it had evolution and and
00:25:48
you know also there's a bunch of
00:25:49
Christians who don't believe dinosaurs
00:25:50
ever existed to begin with that kind of
00:25:52
a thing. Anyway, so we watched it and
00:25:54
then spent the night and I had
00:25:56
nightmares all night about dinosaurs and
00:25:58
I could not sleep.
00:26:00
>> I was a scary movie.
00:26:02
>> I was 15 years old having nightmares
00:26:04
about dinosaurs. Like that's
00:26:05
embarrassing.
00:26:07
>> No, it's not. I would have done the same
00:26:09
thing. If I watched that movie at that
00:26:10
age, I absolutely would have had
00:26:12
nightmares. Like I watch it now and I
00:26:15
still jump at, you know, that movie
00:26:17
still holds up to this day. Like
00:26:19
>> Yeah,
00:26:19
>> it's scary.
00:26:20
>> It is. Yeah. Um, I was gonna ask you
00:26:24
because so my parents used Focus on the
00:26:27
Family had this thing called Plugged In
00:26:29
back in the day. I think it still exists
00:26:30
today.
00:26:31
>> Plugged in online. I think it still
00:26:33
exists. I'm Yeah, I think it it does.
00:26:36
>> I did your parents use that or did you
00:26:39
use that? they used it and then um
00:26:42
actually after they probably don't even
00:26:45
know this but when I would I I still I
00:26:49
mean I think anybody feels uncomfortable
00:26:51
watching a movie with sex scenes with
00:26:53
anybody else that's not you know even
00:26:56
with your significant other I I suppose
00:26:58
it's just kind of awkward you know
00:27:00
>> and uh and so after like once I started
00:27:04
getting older and hanging out with
00:27:05
friends and you know if I would go see a
00:27:08
movie with a friend of mine in the
00:27:10
theater. I think this is also just me
00:27:12
liking to know what I'm about to get
00:27:15
myself into. If it was going to be a
00:27:16
movie that's going to be rated R, I was
00:27:19
going to look it up and plugged in just
00:27:20
to see like, okay, what parts am I going
00:27:23
to have to like see or what am I going
00:27:25
to have to see and is it it is it going
00:27:28
to be tolerable or is this going to make
00:27:30
me super uncomfortable and I'm not going
00:27:31
to want to watch it? Like I I did that
00:27:33
when I would go um like on dates with
00:27:36
people. Uh, I would just make sure that
00:27:39
we're not about to just on a first date
00:27:41
watch a movie with, you know, a 3 minute
00:27:43
long sex scene that was just going to
00:27:45
make us both want to die inside, you
00:27:47
know. So, I I've definitely used it. I
00:27:50
know my parents for sure used it as
00:27:51
well. Um, I would love to to see it as
00:27:56
an adult at the age that I am now to see
00:27:59
because I'm sure these reviews I I'm not
00:28:02
even I'm sure the these reviews were
00:28:04
Christianbased and so they were written
00:28:06
from a Christian perspective. Um, so
00:28:09
they weren't just going to tell you, you
00:28:11
know, what sex things you're going to
00:28:13
see, what violence things you're going
00:28:14
to see, what words you're going to hear.
00:28:15
They're going to give it to you from a
00:28:17
Christian perspective as well. Um, so
00:28:20
yeah, my parents definitely, we didn't
00:28:22
have the DVD player that cut things out,
00:28:23
but we they definitely utilize plugged
00:28:25
in online. That was a we, I mean, we
00:28:27
loved Focus on the Family just as a
00:28:29
company growing up. We listen to
00:28:31
Adventures and Odyssey and everything.
00:28:33
So, it was it was a cool resource at the
00:28:35
time. I'm sure it's probably helpful now
00:28:36
as well if it's you still utilized, you
00:28:39
know, for young kids.
00:28:40
>> No, I used to So, if people don't know
00:28:43
what it is, basically, it's online movie
00:28:45
review. They would do a synopsis of the
00:28:47
movie and then they would list out all
00:28:48
of the different kind of elements. So
00:28:51
like curse words, it would tell you if
00:28:54
there was f-words in it, how many uh if
00:28:56
there was sex scenes in it, if there was
00:28:58
violence in it. And they did this for I
00:29:00
believe movies and video games was kind
00:29:02
of the big ones. And maybe they got into
00:29:03
TV later. But I remember as a kid, well,
00:29:07
and I remember as a kid even like if I
00:29:09
wanted to go see a movie, a lot of times
00:29:10
I would look it up on Plugged In, read
00:29:13
it, and so I even knew, is it worth me
00:29:15
asking my parents if I can go see this
00:29:17
movie because I knew the automatic this
00:29:19
is going to be a no.
00:29:20
>> And so then I would just kind of know.
00:29:22
And um I'm thankful I had parents who
00:29:25
they always let me blame them for stuff.
00:29:27
So, like I So, like if my friends were
00:29:29
like, "Oh, we're going to go see like I
00:29:30
wasn't allowed to see Pirates of the
00:29:31
Caribbean,
00:29:33
>> but they would let me be like, um, oh
00:29:36
yeah, my my parents aren't going to let
00:29:37
me see that or whatever." And even if my
00:29:38
friends were like, "Well, why aren't
00:29:39
your parents going to you should like
00:29:40
beg them?" And I'd be like, "Oh, no.
00:29:42
They like I could just always put it on
00:29:44
them." And even if it was stuff I just
00:29:46
didn't want to go do, you know, they let
00:29:48
me kind of put it on them and be like,
00:29:49
"Oh, no, like my parents said I can't or
00:29:52
you know, whatever." Yeah. Um, but yeah,
00:29:54
Plugged In was Plugged In was cool. I
00:29:57
think it would be cool even today
00:29:58
because yeah, sometimes you go to the
00:30:00
movies and you're you to your point, I
00:30:02
kind of want to know what I'm getting
00:30:03
into before getting into it.
00:30:06
>> To me, it's the same thing as a
00:30:07
restaurant. If I'm going to a new
00:30:09
restaurant I've never seen, I'm
00:30:10
absolutely looking at the menu ahead of
00:30:12
time and I know what I'm going to get
00:30:13
myself into and I know immediately if
00:30:15
I'm going to like this restaurant or not
00:30:16
based on what they have. It's the same
00:30:18
thing with movies. I'm not going to read
00:30:19
spoilers, obviously, but I I mean, when
00:30:23
you're sitting in a movie theater with a
00:30:24
bunch of people, I'm I'm sorry. I don't
00:30:27
feel like watching a super long sex
00:30:29
scene or, you know, a bunch of crazy
00:30:32
violence that, you know, I don't know,
00:30:34
it's just awkward. Like, we're in
00:30:35
public. We can watch this at home if we
00:30:37
really want to watch it. And I mean, it
00:30:39
is sad with movie theaters now nowadays
00:30:41
in modern times clearly uh um on their
00:30:45
way out. Hopefully not, but it seems to
00:30:48
be going that way. But, uh, yeah. Yeah.
00:30:50
I I just the idea of watching on a big
00:30:53
screen a bunch of just uncomfortable
00:30:55
things that I would absolutely look at
00:30:57
Plugged In and be like, "All right, what
00:30:58
am I getting myself into?"
00:31:00
>> You brought up uh being like a fan of
00:31:02
like The Hunger Games and Divergent and
00:31:04
stuff. And I I was thinking about I went
00:31:07
and saw the second Hunger Games movie in
00:31:10
the theater with youth leaders. And that
00:31:13
in that movie there is a scene where one
00:31:16
of the um tributes like gets undressed
00:31:18
in the elevator
00:31:20
>> and you don't see anything um but it's
00:31:23
very heavily implied that like you know
00:31:25
what's going on kind of a thing
00:31:27
>> and um I remember sitting there with
00:31:30
these youth leaders and being like I
00:31:33
don't know what to do. Like I was like I
00:31:34
don't know if I should look away. I
00:31:36
don't know if I should like look down
00:31:38
like look at them. Like are they
00:31:40
watching me? Like that's how I felt too.
00:31:41
I was like, "Are they staring at me?"
00:31:43
Because they're like, "Oh, like is Jacob
00:31:45
consuming this content?"
00:31:46
>> Um, and then also I'm like sitting there
00:31:48
going like, "Would my parents be okay
00:31:50
with me watching this?" Like,
00:31:52
>> yeah, just freaking out. Like, yeah, cuz
00:31:54
I mean, yeah, Hunger Games, I think that
00:31:56
that and like
00:31:58
>> I know in the Hunger Games, the second
00:32:00
one, there's a scene, at least in the
00:32:01
book, where Finnick, one of the
00:32:04
tributes, he's very flirtatious, and I'm
00:32:06
pretty sure he's like supposed to be
00:32:08
naked or really close to naked. and that
00:32:10
reading that I remember being like, "Oh
00:32:12
my god, am I going to have to see this
00:32:14
like in a theater because I really want
00:32:15
to watch this movie, but I don't want to
00:32:17
watch that, you know, and I but I don't
00:32:20
remember if that ended up translating in
00:32:21
the movie or not." But I do remember
00:32:23
that scene in the elevator where she
00:32:24
just that's just her character. just
00:32:27
strips down and you're like
00:32:30
>> as a kid watching that um you know so
00:32:34
>> I wanted to ask you too because you also
00:32:36
brought up now kind of going back and
00:32:39
re-watching stuff or watching things you
00:32:41
weren't allowed to watch and you said
00:32:42
Twilight and I'm married to a huge
00:32:45
Twilight nerd and I'm not going to say
00:32:48
she's a she's not a nerd she's a fan
00:32:50
she's a big Twilight fan but what I've
00:32:53
learned about those books that I think
00:32:55
is so funny is Like I do do you remember
00:32:58
everyone kind of being like they're
00:33:00
super like horny, scandalous, like love
00:33:05
story type thing? Like do you remember
00:33:06
that kind of being the narrative around
00:33:08
those?
00:33:08
>> Yeah, they have a very scandalous tone
00:33:10
to them. But uh I remember growing up,
00:33:15
my best friend growing up, she had uh
00:33:18
Twilight Calendar because she was a huge
00:33:21
fan of Twilight. And I think one time
00:33:24
someone in our mine group, which
00:33:26
everyone knows we were in mine, that's
00:33:28
that's we'll just leave it at that. Uh
00:33:30
but uh someone came over and noticed
00:33:33
that she had that calendar and called
00:33:34
her out on it and was like, "You have a
00:33:36
Twilight calendar? That's like really
00:33:38
bad." And so every time she would have
00:33:40
events at her house, she she would take
00:33:43
it down and hide it because she loved
00:33:45
Twilight. She was allowed to watch it.
00:33:47
But that was the consensus from the
00:33:49
whole homeschool community is that it
00:33:51
was very scandalous. It was not okay. It
00:33:53
was it was just a bad series. And
00:33:56
>> what I think is hilarious too is that
00:33:58
the author is Mormon and it has very
00:34:01
Mormon undertones and Mormonism is very
00:34:05
purity culture.
00:34:07
Save yourself to marriage.
00:34:10
>> Like that's a big part of their religion
00:34:11
as well. And so like that comes across
00:34:14
in the movies and in the books honestly
00:34:18
to some degree like and I always just
00:34:20
thought that was really interesting that
00:34:22
like
00:34:23
>> we were so against this thing or being
00:34:25
told we were like so against this thing
00:34:27
that kind of was
00:34:30
okay in some regards like I don't know
00:34:33
like
00:34:34
>> it did it was also fantasy which some
00:34:36
people just in general didn't love but I
00:34:39
don't know it's just funny to me that
00:34:40
I'm like now I watch And I'm like, this
00:34:42
is so tame.
00:34:44
>> It's really tame and it's very cringe.
00:34:46
It It's really funny to watch it now
00:34:50
because and that's the that's the
00:34:51
unfortunate thing about not seeing these
00:34:53
movies when you're young. When you're
00:34:54
young and obviously, you know, as years
00:34:57
progress,
00:34:58
cinema progresses, CGI progresses.
00:35:02
Obviously, comparing movies now to, you
00:35:04
know, when you were a kid is it's crazy
00:35:06
how much they've moved forward just with
00:35:09
everything. But yeah, watching the
00:35:10
Twilight movies now is like it's hard to
00:35:13
get through if I'm being honest. like
00:35:15
and I I was never like I I kind of
00:35:18
avoided the whole the timing when it was
00:35:20
a huge thing like everyone was team
00:35:22
Jacob or team um Edward and I was like I
00:35:26
don't know vampires are scary you know
00:35:28
and so now watching it it's like yeah
00:35:30
okay
00:35:32
>> I have no you know but that's just cuz I
00:35:34
didn't grow up with it so
00:35:36
>> so okay so we talked a little bit about
00:35:39
>> I mean we talked a lot I guess about
00:35:41
like the stuff we kind of weren't
00:35:42
allowed to watch but like what were we
00:35:45
allowed to watch. Obviously, Chronicles
00:35:46
of Narnia was like a big one. You
00:35:48
mentioned Focus on the Family,
00:35:49
Adventures and Odyssey was like huge at
00:35:51
my house as well. Like we listen every
00:35:53
week on the radio.
00:35:54
>> We did.
00:35:55
>> We have a bunch of the CDs and
00:35:56
cassettes. Like that was
00:36:00
>> I would I would argue that's like peak
00:36:02
Christian media.
00:36:03
>> 100%. Oh my gosh. Like I bet if I listen
00:36:07
to those cassettes now, I don't know how
00:36:09
I would do that, but if I if I had an
00:36:11
opportunity to listen to those cassette
00:36:12
cassettes, I would remember the audio
00:36:14
bits, I would remember my favorite
00:36:15
episodes. Like those were so fun because
00:36:20
it was like a book on tape, but they had
00:36:22
such talented voice actors and stories
00:36:27
that it was like watching a movie, but
00:36:30
you're not. You're just sitting there
00:36:31
listening to your boom box. It was so
00:36:34
cool. like you could vividly I vividly
00:36:36
imagined, you know, all of these stories
00:36:38
and all of these things taking place and
00:36:40
it was it was just so fun.
00:36:42
>> Yeah. You could like see who these
00:36:43
characters were, which was really cool.
00:36:45
I mean, I think that's also what kind of
00:36:46
made us
00:36:48
into like theater and stuff too was just
00:36:51
the fact that like I mean that's what
00:36:53
that was. It's just radio theater and um
00:36:57
yeah, I got to go I'm so fortunate. So,
00:36:59
Focus on the Family, their headquarters
00:37:00
is in Colorado and Okay. They have at
00:37:03
their headquarters, they built uh a Wits
00:37:06
End from Really from Adventures in
00:37:09
Odyssey. Yeah. So, you can go get a
00:37:10
milkshake and like hang out. Um and it
00:37:13
was cool. I remember it being like it's
00:37:15
been a long time. I'm I
00:37:16
>> I don't know what it looks like now, but
00:37:18
they have this gigantic It's not even
00:37:21
giant. It's just a section of the the
00:37:23
place and then they have like a gigantic
00:37:25
slide kind of like in the show and it
00:37:27
it's just cool. It was a fun It's a fun
00:37:29
memory.
00:37:30
>> Well, and I I always thought it was
00:37:32
funny because I would imagine what these
00:37:33
characters looks like and I remember cuz
00:37:36
we only I think we listened to it on the
00:37:37
radio and had the cassettes. We didn't
00:37:39
once they started getting bigger, they
00:37:41
started providing like artwork of what
00:37:43
the characters actually looked like.
00:37:45
>> And I remember being like, "That's not
00:37:47
my wit. That's not Connie. I don't know
00:37:49
who that is." But it was totally
00:37:51
different. Connie, I think her name was.
00:37:52
It was totally different how I imagined
00:37:54
they looked. And then when they released
00:37:56
drawings of them, I remember being like,
00:37:57
"No, that when I hear it, they they look
00:38:01
completely different."
00:38:03
>> Yeah. No, 100%. No. I'm like, "Uh, this
00:38:05
is not Yeah. I think that's true for
00:38:08
like a lot of things, though. Like, you
00:38:09
read a book and then you see it like
00:38:12
It's very rare, I feel like, that you
00:38:14
find something where you're just like,
00:38:15
"Oh, they nailed whoever like your
00:38:18
version of what that person looks like."
00:38:20
Um,
00:38:21
>> yeah. I um you've had so many cool like
00:38:25
experience like the fact that you got to
00:38:27
go to Wits End. Also, another thing I
00:38:29
remember you did that I was super
00:38:30
jealous of is my favorite band growing
00:38:32
up was Pure Energy and I don't know the
00:38:34
real like homeschooled Christians would
00:38:36
probably know who they are. They do not
00:38:38
exist anymore. They haven't existed for
00:38:40
a long time, but they were a really cool
00:38:42
band. Christian pop like EDM. I don't
00:38:46
know if I classified it as EDM, but it
00:38:48
was these three kids, two girls and a
00:38:50
guy, and they just they made such cool
00:38:53
music. And you got to see them in
00:38:55
concert. And I remember just being like
00:38:58
incredibly jealous.
00:38:59
>> Oh, yeah. No, that was
00:39:02
it was interesting cuz I feel like I saw
00:39:04
them.
00:39:04
>> I was maybe a little too old to see
00:39:06
them. I was kind of out of that era of
00:39:09
of myself, but it was it was cool. And
00:39:12
they were very much like um Jump Five is
00:39:15
another band that a lot of they were
00:39:16
Jump Five was their mentors and so they
00:39:19
were a little bit Jump Five was more
00:39:21
mainstream than I think Pure Energy was.
00:39:23
But Pure Energy and it's not energy the
00:39:26
word. It's NRG.
00:39:30
>> Yeah.
00:39:31
>> And um they were cool. I mean back flips
00:39:34
on stage. They were doing back flips
00:39:35
before Benson Boon was doing back flips,
00:39:37
you know, like they
00:39:39
>> It's so true.
00:39:41
It's so true. They worked their asses
00:39:43
off. Like they they were not only
00:39:46
talented singers, they were triple
00:39:47
threats. Like they the back flips.
00:39:50
They're they had the Britney like
00:39:52
microphones. They were they were cool. I
00:39:54
wanted to meet them so bad.
00:39:56
>> You know what's so funny too is like so
00:39:58
the reason I saw them was because the
00:40:00
church I went to my my grandparents VBS
00:40:03
at their church, their vacation bible
00:40:05
school during the summer. And I was I'm
00:40:08
the reason I I say I was probably too
00:40:10
old was because I was too old to go to
00:40:12
vacation bible school. So I must have
00:40:14
been like high school maybe like a
00:40:16
freshman or something. Um and so I was
00:40:20
so I worked at the vacation bible school
00:40:23
and then but this church was insane. It
00:40:25
was like one of those mega churches. So
00:40:27
they built an entire their their theme
00:40:29
was
00:40:30
>> um what was the theme? It was I think it
00:40:33
was fairy tales. And so they built a
00:40:36
giant castle and they put in the
00:40:39
zipline. Yeah. It was like the Tik Tok
00:40:41
churches where you're like insane. They
00:40:43
put a zipline from the back of the
00:40:45
church to the stage and they had
00:40:46
different days. So they had Tinker Bell
00:40:48
come in one day and they had Aladdin
00:40:49
come in on a magic carpet and they had
00:40:51
somebody else do something. It was
00:40:53
insane. Like and they had princess
00:40:56
princes and princesses walking around at
00:40:58
all times like full glam, full just like
00:41:01
insanity. Um, and yeah, and then they
00:41:05
did like a Shrek thing at the end and
00:41:07
they it was crazy and that but yeah,
00:41:10
Pure Energy was like the the like the
00:41:13
big Friday
00:41:15
thing. So they like had all the parents
00:41:17
come
00:41:18
>> and do like the kids did their, you
00:41:20
know, vacation Bible school like dances
00:41:23
that they learn or whatever and then
00:41:25
they had Pure Energy come out and like
00:41:27
actually do performance. It was crazy.
00:41:29
But yeah, to your point, very Britney
00:41:30
Spears. They all had like the the
00:41:32
headpiece mic that came around and
00:41:34
>> the choreography was elite. Oh god,
00:41:37
>> it was something. Yeah,
00:41:39
>> I I was just Yeah, I I wanted to be
00:41:42
them. They were so cool. Like every time
00:41:44
we would record with my dad in his
00:41:46
recording studio, I I tried to get it to
00:41:49
sound like they did. Um we we have so
00:41:52
many audio files of me and my sisters
00:41:55
covering their songs. We would sing them
00:41:58
at our Thanksgiving in the park events.
00:42:01
Like we were obsessed. They were
00:42:04
>> they were the best.
00:42:05
>> We haven't even touched on like music
00:42:07
that we were and weren't allowed to
00:42:09
listen to because I'm sure that was kind
00:42:13
of a reality as well. Like for a long
00:42:15
time I wasn't allowed to listen to
00:42:16
really like rock and roll or like '8s
00:42:18
pop music or anything. Like it really
00:42:20
wasn't until
00:42:21
>> I started taking lessons at your dad's
00:42:23
studio and your dad was like,
00:42:25
>> "You got to let Jacob listen to anything
00:42:27
and everything cuz like he needs to know
00:42:29
like you got to let him listen to
00:42:30
Santana and Eric Clapton and like all
00:42:33
this stuff cuz like that's the music he
00:42:34
likes to play."
00:42:35
>> Um, so I don't know. Was that was music
00:42:38
a thing in your house where there was
00:42:40
like limits to it or or was your dad
00:42:42
pretty like kind of whatever?
00:42:44
>> Well, we listened to a lot of music
00:42:46
period. We were always listening to
00:42:48
something at the house and if we weren't
00:42:50
listening to it, someone was singing
00:42:51
something. I mean, I come from a very
00:42:52
musical family, so there was a lot of
00:42:55
worship music mainly. Um, a lot of there
00:43:00
was a lot of classical music as well.
00:43:02
Um, my mom really liked the classical
00:43:03
radio station and I I still enjoy it
00:43:05
even, you know, now. Um, but there was
00:43:08
definitely always songs playing. Um, I
00:43:11
didn't really get uh into
00:43:14
much music on my own until a little bit
00:43:17
later, but I remember getting a serial
00:43:20
box and inside the serial box was a
00:43:23
Backstreet Boys CD because, you know,
00:43:27
what better way to market your music
00:43:29
than serial boxes.
00:43:31
>> And I just remember hearing larger than
00:43:33
life uh for the first time and I loved
00:43:36
it and I was like, this song I didn't
00:43:38
even know what they looked like. This
00:43:39
was before I could look it up on the
00:43:41
internet. Like we we had a computer but
00:43:44
it had AOL dialup and I just didn't know
00:43:48
how to Google something. I don't even
00:43:50
know if that was a thing. But I just
00:43:52
remember loving the Backstreet Boys and
00:43:55
I used to say then because I started
00:43:58
hearing fellow as I got older I started
00:44:00
hearing fellow friends of mine say you
00:44:02
know InSync or Backstreet Boys and I
00:44:05
just would always say Backstreet Boys
00:44:06
even though I knew one song and I only
00:44:09
liked one song. I'd never heard any of
00:44:11
their other music but I was like
00:44:14
Backstreet Boys all the way when I feel
00:44:16
like I would have been in sync if I had
00:44:18
heard all their music. But I digress.
00:44:21
Um, so we I didn't really get the sense
00:44:25
that there was inappropriate music until
00:44:28
a little bit later, but we would be I
00:44:30
remember we would be in the car
00:44:32
listening to Kihei um, country music and
00:44:36
Josh Turner had a song that I'm sure
00:44:40
everybody knows, but it talks it's
00:44:42
basically talking about how he is going
00:44:44
to have a night having sex with his
00:44:46
lover, whatever, you know, and it's a
00:44:49
for for our family hearing it. I didn't
00:44:51
really understand what the lyrics meant.
00:44:54
I just I was like, "Wow, that guy has a
00:44:56
really deep voice." And every time that
00:44:59
song would come on the radio, my mom
00:45:00
would say, "Okay, we're going to switch
00:45:01
it. We're not going to listen to this
00:45:03
song." And or or she would make some
00:45:05
sort of comment where I was like, "Oh, I
00:45:07
guess there must be something bad in
00:45:09
this music." But I
00:45:11
>> I didn't really understand what sex was
00:45:13
even at that time. So,
00:45:15
>> I was like I But I knew that that was a
00:45:18
naughty song or a bad song. um as a kid
00:45:21
and then yeah, you know, as as I grew
00:45:24
up, I I got exposed to a lot more music
00:45:26
and um
00:45:29
but there wasn't anything specifically
00:45:31
that I remember being told you can't
00:45:34
listen to. Um my mom kind of rolled her
00:45:37
eyes at the Backstreet Boys CD, but I
00:45:39
was still allowed to listen to it. I had
00:45:41
a similar CD. So like when I was a kid,
00:45:43
I remember getting a pair of sneakers at
00:45:46
Famous Footwear and for whatever reason
00:45:48
they gave us a CD with it and it was all
00:45:52
songs that had to do with like shoes or
00:45:54
like walking. So it was like Blue Suede
00:45:57
Shoes by Elvis Presley.
00:45:58
>> Yeah.
00:45:59
>> And um and but there was like walking on
00:46:01
sunshine and there were all these I mean
00:46:04
a lot of them are older but there was a
00:46:06
few newer ones. And then I was a big
00:46:10
fan. I wasn't allowed to watch a lot of
00:46:11
Nickelodeon as a kid, but I but Jimmy
00:46:13
Neutron was allowed in my house. And so
00:46:15
I had the Jimmy Neutron movie CD and
00:46:18
that was all pop songs. So there was
00:46:20
Insync, Britney Spears.
00:46:22
>> Okay.
00:46:23
>> Uh I I'm trying to even remember who
00:46:25
else, but I do. So for a long time, I
00:46:27
would say my favorite was Britney
00:46:29
Spears. I was like Britney Spears, my
00:46:31
girl. Like let's go. Um, yeah.
00:46:35
>> I think we we knew like we knew who the
00:46:38
popular people were, but I would just
00:46:40
say it just to sound cool. I didn't
00:46:42
actually listen to their music because
00:46:44
>> music unless you had it on CD. Uh, you
00:46:48
couldn't really get it digitally or at
00:46:50
least I didn't know a way how. Um,
00:46:52
>> no. until, you know, we would always go
00:46:54
to Barnes & Noble and when they had like
00:46:56
a CD and a DVD selection, you could go
00:46:59
up and you could put your headphones on,
00:47:00
you could scan the CD and listen to it
00:47:04
in store. So, we would do family trips
00:47:06
uh to Barnes & Noble to do that for
00:47:08
hours and just listen to whatever CDs we
00:47:11
found. Um, but yeah, I I really stuck to
00:47:14
what I liked, which was pure energy. Um,
00:47:18
there was this band called The Rubies,
00:47:20
which was these three girls, and they
00:47:22
made sort of the similar pop sound, also
00:47:24
Christian. Um, a lot of there was a lot
00:47:27
of Christian music and and just worship
00:47:29
music that I liked and I was just
00:47:32
surrounded by. So, I didn't really know
00:47:33
any different. A lot of musicals, too.
00:47:35
Um, we listen to a lot of, you know,
00:47:37
old-timey musicals and a lot of, you
00:47:40
know, Frank Sinatra and all the oldies.
00:47:44
But,
00:47:44
>> yeah. Um, I think I didn't really
00:47:46
realize that, you know, music could have
00:47:50
bad lyrics. Like, it didn't really
00:47:53
translate to me. I think I I'm so
00:47:56
thankful I had somebody at my church
00:47:58
turned me on to Eric Clapton used to do
00:48:01
or I think he still does, but he did a
00:48:04
uh music festival every couple of years
00:48:06
called the Crossroads Music Festival and
00:48:08
he would have all some of like some of
00:48:10
the best like blues and jazz guitar
00:48:12
players, rock guitar like gods basically
00:48:15
come and play at this thing
00:48:17
>> and he that so shout out to Tom Ramette
00:48:22
cuz he put me onto this thing And um the
00:48:25
first one I ever watched he uh he had
00:48:28
John Mayer come on and I was like who is
00:48:31
this guy because he was amazing. And um
00:48:33
and so then yeah and he was super cool.
00:48:36
And so so I got I got gifted one of his
00:48:38
albums and then um I found one of them
00:48:41
at like the thrift store or whatever.
00:48:43
And your body is a Wonderland was like
00:48:45
the first song that I remember being
00:48:47
like this seems like I shouldn't be
00:48:50
listening to it. Um,
00:48:53
>> but it was such a beautiful song that
00:48:54
you could now
00:48:55
>> amazing song.
00:48:56
>> It's gorgeous. I love it.
00:48:58
>> It's It's a great song. Um, and uh,
00:49:02
yeah. So, shout out to my parents for
00:49:04
letting me listen to that
00:49:06
>> over and over and over. Um, yeah. Um, it
00:49:10
wasn't my favorite song on the album,
00:49:11
though. I'm trying to remember what my
00:49:12
favorite song was off that album. But um
00:49:15
but that led to I mean John Mayer is my
00:49:17
favorite to this day and I I know he's a
00:49:20
jerk but I've seen him in concert. He's
00:49:22
amazing. He's so talented. Like um
00:49:25
anyway, but uh yeah. Well, and then when
00:49:28
we were in high school, I feel like you
00:49:30
and I both got kind of obsessed with
00:49:31
like the cover bands. It was like it was
00:49:33
the era of YouTube where like cover
00:49:35
songs were like the thing. Like
00:49:37
>> Yes. I forgot about this. Wow.
00:49:40
>> Like Charlie Puth was a cover artist
00:49:42
before he was the Charlie P. we know him
00:49:44
as today.
00:49:45
>> When you think about it, we liked
00:49:47
Charlie Puth before he was cool. I mean,
00:49:49
I was such a huge fan. I still have his
00:49:52
like first albums downloaded on like my
00:49:54
old uh Apple devices like and I I'm
00:49:57
never getting rid of that because you
00:49:59
can't find it anywhere now. But yeah, we
00:50:02
liked Charlie Puth before. He was cool.
00:50:03
I remember we liked Alex Goot and um
00:50:06
Kurt Schneider, I think it was. I can't
00:50:08
believe I remember all these names, but
00:50:10
the YouTube cover era, that was big. And
00:50:12
I I remember I would I would also sing
00:50:14
my own covers. That was just what you
00:50:16
did. And Christina Grimmie, rest in
00:50:18
peace. She was amazing. I loved her. Um,
00:50:22
yeah, there were so many. And we did
00:50:24
during group solutions. I remember we
00:50:25
really bonded over over that. Well, I
00:50:27
mean, I think that was also like kind of
00:50:29
our exp for me that was a lot of my
00:50:31
exposure to a lot of pop music, too,
00:50:34
because like my parents weren't going to
00:50:36
let me listen to Pitbull, but they would
00:50:37
let me listen to a Pitbull melody that
00:50:40
was like more instrumental, like more
00:50:43
like an acoustic version.
00:50:45
>> Yeah.
00:50:46
>> And um and so like that's how I learned
00:50:47
a bunch of like Kesha songs and yeah,
00:50:50
Pitbull and just all these songs that I
00:50:53
would have never known otherwise. Um,
00:50:55
and then as I got older and when I
00:50:57
wanted to go into the music industry,
00:50:59
>> it was that was I was like, "Oh, I know
00:51:01
this song already. I just don't know
00:51:03
this version of that song." Um,
00:51:05
>> I know. You almost miss the like cover
00:51:08
version cuz that's the original that you
00:51:10
knew you liked it.
00:51:11
>> Like,
00:51:11
>> right. Exactly. Like Kurt Schneider
00:51:13
playing some pop song on like Coke
00:51:15
bottles or something, you know? Like it
00:51:17
was just like weird.
00:51:18
>> Way better.
00:51:18
>> Any Yeah. Way better than than the
00:51:21
original. I don't know. It's funny, too,
00:51:24
cuz like that's I don't know. My my like
00:51:26
I said, my parents were like okay with
00:51:28
that, but then like and I I won't even
00:51:32
say they weren't okay with pop music. I
00:51:34
think they were just kind of like,
00:51:36
>> yeah, but you like all these other
00:51:38
artists more,
00:51:39
>> so to speak. Like it was kind of like,
00:51:41
oh, but you really like the news boys,
00:51:43
so like listen to the news boys, you
00:51:45
know? Um it's like a redirect in a lot
00:51:47
of ways.
00:51:48
>> Yeah. like, okay, well, you want to
00:51:50
listen to this pop artist, but this
00:51:52
Christian pop artist does kind of the
00:51:54
same thing. Why don't you listen to
00:51:55
them? Yeah. Right. And that
00:51:57
>> Yeah, that that's definitely we were
00:51:59
surrounded by a lot of that. And um just
00:52:03
Yeah. going to VBS and then Group
00:52:05
Solutions and everything. It was just
00:52:07
Yeah, we were very I was very surrounded
00:52:09
by Christian music. I almost didn't
00:52:11
really know much about pop music until
00:52:13
much later in life, I feel like. Then I
00:52:16
discovered everything and figured out
00:52:18
who I like. And turns out I really love
00:52:20
Pitbull.
00:52:22
>> I'm still so jealous that you like got
00:52:23
tickets to go see him and went and saw
00:52:25
him. And
00:52:26
>> that was so funny.
00:52:27
>> Terry called me and I had just gotten to
00:52:29
college and was like, hey, do you want
00:52:30
to go see Pitbull? And I was like I just
00:52:32
got off a [ __ ] plane. Like I was
00:52:34
like, I'm not in California anymore. I
00:52:37
was so mad.
00:52:38
>> So it was so random. I won them on the
00:52:40
radio and I knew I liked Pitull, but I
00:52:43
think that cover that that concert
00:52:45
opened my eyes because I
00:52:48
I and this was before like I knew how to
00:52:51
do makeup. I didn't really care about
00:52:52
dressing well at all. And so I was like,
00:52:55
I want to be comfortable. I'm going to
00:52:57
go to the Staple Center in my, you know,
00:52:58
my hoodie and my sweatpants and no
00:53:00
makeup and I had bright pink hair. So I
00:53:02
looked really out of place for someone
00:53:04
at a pit bull concert. and I knew all of
00:53:06
the words and I was rapping everything
00:53:08
and I had such a blast and I would I
00:53:11
still want to go see him in concert
00:53:13
again cuz I just I'm such a fan of of
00:53:16
him and his music and it's Yeah, that
00:53:18
was that's right though. I forgot I
00:53:20
asked you and you were at college.
00:53:23
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I was like sitting in my
00:53:25
dorm room. I was just sad all by myself.
00:53:28
But it's okay. It's okay. It'll happen
00:53:30
someday. Someday we'll we'll make it
00:53:32
happen. But
00:53:34
>> no, that's
00:53:36
I just Yeah, it's you know what's funny
00:53:38
too is like I have now gotten my parents
00:53:42
into more
00:53:44
op music I guess but like I don't feel
00:53:47
like it's like a it was like that hard
00:53:49
because like when I talk to them I'm
00:53:51
like my dad really liked you too when he
00:53:53
was in college which like even though
00:53:54
they kind of border on a Christian band
00:53:57
they're they're a rock band you know
00:53:59
like my mom was like Madonna and like
00:54:01
>> they they liked '8s music. They liked
00:54:03
the pop culture '8s music. And so it's
00:54:06
funny cuz now I can show them pop music
00:54:08
of today. And there's a good amount that
00:54:09
they're like, "This is really fun. This
00:54:11
is a great, you know, a great song." And
00:54:13
they're like, "Yeah." And then and then
00:54:15
I find out like they're actually like
00:54:16
listening to it or they bought it like,
00:54:19
>> you know,
00:54:20
>> like, "Oh, so you are hearing what I
00:54:21
suggest." Well, yeah.
00:54:22
>> And I noticed too a lot of songs like if
00:54:26
I happen to show my parents or or some I
00:54:28
mean that's one thing I love about my
00:54:30
dad. He's always open to new music. And
00:54:31
so sometimes when we go to the studio,
00:54:33
even now, he'll say, "Oh, just just play
00:54:35
for me what you've been listening to
00:54:36
lately." And so I'll be like, "Okay, you
00:54:38
sure you're going to like it?" And
00:54:40
>> he still listens to it and we can chat
00:54:42
about it and discuss it and
00:54:43
>> and but it's so cool to see how they so
00:54:47
many songs are covered now, but also so
00:54:50
many melodies or bits from songs are
00:54:52
taken from older songs and they'll be
00:54:56
able to catch it. They'll be like, "Oh,
00:54:57
that's not the original." and they know
00:54:59
the original from like forever ago. And
00:55:01
so that's kind of fun, too, is you know,
00:55:03
you'd be like, "Oh, this pop song's
00:55:05
really great." And then you hear, "Oh,
00:55:06
wait, that's not the original song."
00:55:09
Most likely not.
00:55:11
>> Yeah. No, I was I was super happy for a
00:55:13
while. My dad and I would do this thing
00:55:14
where we would send each other uh an
00:55:16
album and be like, "Hey, listen to this
00:55:18
and then let's like talk about it." And
00:55:20
so I had sent him
00:55:22
>> I made him listen to Chance the Rapper,
00:55:23
which I thought was pretty big, but also
00:55:25
like
00:55:26
>> not that hard. I mean, Chance is
00:55:28
>> Yeah.
00:55:29
>> Christian guy. So, I was like, "Okay,
00:55:30
you'll like this." And then
00:55:32
>> it was at the time when before before we
00:55:34
knew that I mean, we knew that Kanye was
00:55:36
crazy, but it was before Kanye really
00:55:37
went off the deep end. And I sent him a
00:55:39
Kanye album and had him listen to that.
00:55:41
And it was cool. We got to like have a
00:55:42
great conversation about it and like
00:55:43
what did you like? What did you not
00:55:45
like? And like my dad's biggest thing is
00:55:47
always like I don't the speed of rap is
00:55:50
too much for him. He's like, I can't get
00:55:52
there with it. Which is understandable
00:55:55
um
00:55:56
>> for a lot of people, but it's I mean,
00:55:58
but it's fun because then like he would
00:56:00
send me an album and I'd be like, okay,
00:56:01
well, I like these things about it, but
00:56:03
I don't, you know, but this sounds like
00:56:05
everything else, you know? So, it's it
00:56:07
was cool. It's just fun to like have
00:56:08
that conversation with somebody. I'm
00:56:10
like,
00:56:11
>> what? Like, like you're saying, like
00:56:12
with your dad, like show them like this
00:56:14
is what I'm listening to. What are you
00:56:15
listening to? What are you into? You
00:56:18
know, it's fun. It's fun to have those
00:56:19
combos. It's really cool. I One thing I
00:56:22
know like my dad showed me this band
00:56:25
called Dirty Loops. I don't know. You
00:56:27
must have heard of them. Maybe not.
00:56:29
>> I love Dirty Loops. Yeah,
00:56:30
>> they're so great. They're And my dad
00:56:32
would always make kind of make fun of
00:56:34
them because their thing is like jazz
00:56:36
fusion. And he's like, "Okay, that's
00:56:38
that's not a new thing by any means."
00:56:40
But it was one thing we do just together
00:56:44
is we go to the N show in in, you know,
00:56:46
in January every year. And one year
00:56:49
after he had showed me Dirty Loops and I
00:56:51
started really liking their music, they
00:56:53
happened to be playing. Um, we
00:56:55
unfortunately didn't get to catch a
00:56:56
concert, but they were doing an
00:56:57
autograph signing and he was like, "Do
00:56:59
you want to just meet them real quick?"
00:57:00
And I was like, "Yeah, absolutely." And
00:57:02
so we go through the line and my dad
00:57:05
just wanted to stop and talk to them and
00:57:08
held up the line and we just chatted
00:57:11
with them and it was it just was a cool
00:57:12
experience cuz you know sometimes there
00:57:15
are generational differences naturally
00:57:17
with what your parents like and what you
00:57:19
like. But it's really cool to have that
00:57:21
where I know he loves them and then I'll
00:57:23
be like, "Hey, did you know there's a
00:57:24
new Dirty Loop song?" And it's really
00:57:26
cool to kind of dissect and talk about
00:57:29
them together. So,
00:57:30
>> it's cool too because like I mean I
00:57:32
think this whole I mean our conversation
00:57:34
has been really centered on like media
00:57:36
so far, but like it was it's cool now
00:57:38
that like like we were saying like
00:57:40
there's a lot of things that maybe we
00:57:41
weren't allowed to listen to or watch or
00:57:43
read as kids that like now as adults we
00:57:46
kind of can kind of put like we can show
00:57:49
it to our parents and they're like, "Oh,
00:57:50
this is actually like pretty cool." You
00:57:52
know, or I don't know. I think there's
00:57:55
less of a um
00:57:58
our parents were so concerned with
00:57:59
protecting us as kids and then like now
00:58:02
we're adults. We're obviously we've been
00:58:04
adults for a while at this point. Um and
00:58:07
so I think some of those walls of the
00:58:09
needing to protect us from everything
00:58:11
bad have come down a little bit. And so
00:58:14
we're able to like hopefully expose them
00:58:16
to some things that were like, "Hey,
00:58:17
this is actually really cool and I think
00:58:18
you would like this." Um and it's not
00:58:20
something they traditionally would have
00:58:22
gone for, you know?
00:58:23
>> Right. Yeah. No, that's really it's it's
00:58:25
awesome to to be able to see that and,
00:58:28
you know, like to open their eyes to
00:58:31
some stuff that maybe, you know, at one
00:58:33
time they thought they wouldn't have
00:58:35
allowed us to watch or read, but oh,
00:58:39
it's actually kind of cool. Like I said,
00:58:41
I really hope to I I really will have to
00:58:44
ask my parents to see if they have even
00:58:46
watched Harry Potter or read it. But uh
00:58:48
that'll be fun to in my opinion the
00:58:51
books are a lot better. So I think it
00:58:52
would be fun to get them to read it.
00:58:54
>> Well, and your mom always surprised me
00:58:55
because I remember cuz like I said
00:58:57
earlier like I was really into sci-fi
00:58:59
and I remember watching Tron for the
00:59:01
first time and your mom was like I
00:59:03
worked on that movie and I was like
00:59:04
what? And then her and I having this
00:59:06
whole conversation about like our love
00:59:07
for sci-fi
00:59:09
>> and um and she was like yeah I worked on
00:59:11
this movie and like we helped with this
00:59:13
and I remember going to the theater to
00:59:14
watch this movie and I was like what the
00:59:16
hell? I was like, Barb France is [ __ ]
00:59:18
awesome. Like
00:59:20
>> she really does throw out those random
00:59:22
facts be like, "Oh yeah, you know, I
00:59:24
casually like met Hugh Jackman before he
00:59:27
was famous." Or like, you know, she has
00:59:29
all these great stories, but yeah, she
00:59:31
she was in film production. So the fact
00:59:33
that she worked on like the original
00:59:35
Tron is just awesome.
00:59:38
>> Yeah, exactly. So yeah, as a huge Tron
00:59:41
fan. Yeah, that was like one of the
00:59:44
coolest things ever. Okay, I do I want
00:59:46
to pivot the conversation just a little
00:59:48
bit back to stuff that's maybe not
00:59:50
media, but like
00:59:52
>> other things we weren't allowed to do as
00:59:54
homeschoolers.
00:59:55
>> And
00:59:57
I know for me, it's not so much that I
01:00:00
wasn't 100% allowed to do this, but it
01:00:03
was highly discouraged. And I feel like
01:00:05
in general, our friend group was highly
01:00:06
discouraged was dating. Yeah,
01:00:09
>> that was interesting because when I got
01:00:12
to college and I started to realize that
01:00:14
everyone else there had been like in
01:00:18
relationships before,
01:00:20
had kissed people, had like all these
01:00:22
things. I was like, "Wait, these people
01:00:24
are not like your siblings?" Like, I
01:00:27
don't know. I don't know. Like, does
01:00:30
that make sense? Like,
01:00:31
>> no, it absolutely does. I
01:00:34
I I was thinking because you're
01:00:36
homeschooled for one, so you're at home
01:00:39
all the time and people assume that you
01:00:41
don't have friends. That's absolutely
01:00:42
not true. But to go off of that, the
01:00:48
group that we were homeschooled in,
01:00:50
you're right. A lot of thing we acted
01:00:53
like siblings, you know, they were your
01:00:55
brother or your sister in Christ. they
01:00:57
there was no um encouragement or really
01:01:01
any push to date. Um you know I I
01:01:05
remember kind of asking my mom at a
01:01:06
young age like about dating but I don't
01:01:09
think I even knew what dating was myself
01:01:13
at that point. I to me it was just well
01:01:18
you know I guess eventually during
01:01:21
puberty like I started realizing you
01:01:23
know oh you just find someone and you
01:01:26
get married there there was there was no
01:01:29
like
01:01:31
there was really no explanation or or
01:01:34
talk about what dating was or that it
01:01:37
would be okay to you know have a few
01:01:39
boyfriends or or partners before you
01:01:42
find the one in my mind. It was always
01:01:45
like, well, you know, I'll I'll get a
01:01:47
purity ring and stay celibate until I
01:01:49
get married and and whoever my boyfriend
01:01:52
is will probably be my husband. Like,
01:01:54
there was no um real talk about like
01:01:58
casual dating. Uh and and like you said,
01:02:01
a lot of I didn't really like a lot of,
01:02:04
you know, romantically, I didn't really
01:02:06
like a lot of the people I hung out with
01:02:07
in our homeschool group. They were
01:02:09
always just good friends. I was really
01:02:11
good friends with, you know, you and and
01:02:13
other guys, but it was never any sort of
01:02:17
like, oh, I could see myself, you know,
01:02:20
marrying this person someday. And it was
01:02:22
like, no, that was kind of like, ew,
01:02:24
that'll happen to me later, you know, in
01:02:30
um, sure, I had crushes, but deep down I
01:02:33
knew that was never going to turn into
01:02:35
anything. It was way too high to would
01:02:39
to obtain it for me. I could just have
01:02:41
the crush and that was going to be kind
01:02:42
of where it lived and died, you know,
01:02:45
and was never going to have the
01:02:47
confidence to ask a guy for his number
01:02:50
or I didn't even know how to do any of
01:02:52
that. It was really hard to just talk to
01:02:54
guys in general.
01:02:56
>> Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it was
01:02:57
like weird, too, because we had these
01:02:59
like
01:03:02
like I said, like we said, there was
01:03:03
like we were very much like, oh, it's
01:03:05
like your siblings, right? Like, you
01:03:07
know, like it's like like car's your
01:03:09
sister kind of a thing. So, it's like it
01:03:11
would be weird to like look at you in
01:03:13
any other light besides that and like
01:03:15
other people kind of same deal. Like
01:03:17
>> I'm like, oh yeah, it'd be very weird to
01:03:20
like date this person even though maybe
01:03:22
I like find them attractive or whatever,
01:03:24
but like I also
01:03:26
like you, I also had that kind of that
01:03:28
mindset of like, well, I'm going to date
01:03:29
somebody and then that's like I better
01:03:31
be pretty sure because that's the
01:03:32
forever partner kind of a thing.
01:03:35
>> I also had my parents kind of knew that
01:03:37
I probably was going to go away to
01:03:39
college and so my dad had asked me like
01:03:42
to not really date in high school and I
01:03:44
think his logic behind that was less on
01:03:48
a like purity culture level. I don't
01:03:50
know. Maybe I guess I'll have to ask him
01:03:52
about this, but he had a high school
01:03:54
girlfriend and he still was with her
01:03:56
when he went to college and that was
01:03:58
like I think kind of an issue for him
01:04:00
and it was difficult to do long distance
01:04:02
and and all those types of things. So I
01:04:04
think he to in his own sense he was
01:04:06
trying to like protect me from like I
01:04:08
just don't want you to like have that
01:04:10
same issue because like going to college
01:04:12
is already it's hard enough to make
01:04:14
friends in college but then you're also
01:04:16
you don't want to be that person who's
01:04:17
like oh I got to call my girlfriend
01:04:19
every night and like it takes you away
01:04:21
from the opportunity to go hang out with
01:04:23
people
01:04:23
>> and so I think he had this kind of like
01:04:26
protection of like just wait like you'll
01:04:28
maybe meet somebody in college or like
01:04:30
after college or whatever but it made
01:04:32
dating really weird because like you, I
01:04:34
had no clue what the hell I was doing. I
01:04:36
was like, I know I'm supposed to maybe
01:04:38
ask somebody out, but like
01:04:40
>> how do I do that? And then also, how do
01:04:41
I do that in a way that's like I'm not
01:04:44
asking them out as like friends, like
01:04:46
cuz that was I mean
01:04:48
>> I hung out with so many of you guys like
01:04:50
in high school and stuff and it was
01:04:52
always just like, "Oh, let's go get
01:04:53
coffee or whatever." And I I didn't ever
01:04:55
think of it as like weird. It was very
01:04:56
much just like two friends getting
01:04:58
coffee.
01:04:59
>> It was never weird. Like there were
01:05:01
people that I had
01:05:04
at different levels that I was like,
01:05:05
"Oh, that's crush status." So if they
01:05:07
were ask
01:05:12
that was going to be different than,
01:05:14
>> you know, like you said, let's just go
01:05:16
to the movies like all together. Let's
01:05:17
just, you know, go on vacation. Let's
01:05:19
just like whatever we would do. We were
01:05:22
always so close with each other that it
01:05:24
felt very I was like, "Oh, they're
01:05:26
they're just my brothers." Like except
01:05:28
those two guys, right? Though guy those
01:05:30
guys are on, you know, higher pedestal.
01:05:32
If they were to ask me out, totally
01:05:34
different. Wouldn't have known what to
01:05:36
do. Yeah. But and in fact, they did not
01:05:39
out. But
01:05:41
>> like I don't know. We were still fig
01:05:43
figuring out myself like let alone
01:05:46
>> Yeah.
01:05:46
>> dating another person like I didn't know
01:05:48
myself at all. I was very awkward and
01:05:51
didn't know how to function and and
01:05:53
didn't know what was happening with my
01:05:55
body and the changes and why am I
01:05:57
feeling these feelings and you know
01:05:59
struggles with like you know porn and
01:06:02
everything like that. Like I was dealing
01:06:03
with all of that on my own. Like it
01:06:05
wasn't I I knew I wanted to date and I
01:06:09
knew I wanted to be married but that
01:06:11
always just felt like it was you know
01:06:14
way farther away.
01:06:16
>> Oh yeah. No, I I feel that because I
01:06:18
think to your point like I think we were
01:06:20
left a lot with
01:06:22
this kind of like unknown when it comes
01:06:24
to like
01:06:27
we weren't t sex wasn't talked about,
01:06:29
relationships weren't talked about a
01:06:30
whole lot like and that kind of a thing.
01:06:32
So I think it was just also this like
01:06:34
unknown of like what does
01:06:38
what does any of that even look like in
01:06:42
>> a good way so to speak because like
01:06:46
>> and like how do you
01:06:49
>> I think for me I think the biggest thing
01:06:50
was I was like I don't know how to like
01:06:53
appropriately take it to a level that's
01:06:55
not friendship and like
01:06:58
>> I was like is it like when does it
01:07:00
become that because I was like I don't
01:07:02
necessarily It wasn't I didn't think it
01:07:04
was like kissing. Like I mean obviously
01:07:05
that's a part of dating typically in a
01:07:07
romantic relationship but like I was
01:07:09
like I don't think you just immediately
01:07:11
go there. Like I was like I think
01:07:12
there's like this friendship plus level
01:07:16
of like hanging out with somebody. And I
01:07:18
was like I don't know how to clarify
01:07:21
that that's where I wanted to be with
01:07:23
people. And so like I was even thinking
01:07:25
about the fact that like cuz we went to
01:07:26
prom together. I remember you calling me
01:07:28
and being like hey you want to go to
01:07:30
prom? And then this like disclaimer of
01:07:32
like but like we're just friends because
01:07:35
it's like there's this there's this
01:07:36
thing that's like well okay you're
01:07:38
asking me to prom like what does that is
01:07:40
there subtext to that right is there
01:07:42
something additional and it's like
01:07:44
>> you know I didn't know you and I did the
01:07:46
same thing the next year clarify
01:07:48
>> yeah exactly well and I did I did the
01:07:51
same thing the next year when I asked
01:07:52
Julia to go to prom. It was like, "Do
01:07:53
you want to go to prom?"
01:07:56
But like also this like additional like,
01:07:58
"But we're just friends. Like I just
01:08:00
like want to go with somebody."
01:08:02
Um,
01:08:03
>> and I think that was like
01:08:06
>> it's weird because I don't like I talk
01:08:08
to other people about their prom
01:08:09
experience and they're like they there
01:08:11
wasn't a disclaimer on it and even if
01:08:12
they were just friends like
01:08:14
>> and I'm like that's such an interesting
01:08:16
thing that like we kind of had to add
01:08:19
this little extra hint of something on
01:08:22
there to be like
01:08:23
>> yeah but
01:08:24
>> it's not like the movies. It's not like
01:08:27
>> we had to have the disclaimer because we
01:08:30
were at least I was like watched like I
01:08:33
it was I mean not that anything was
01:08:35
going to happen by any means but it was
01:08:37
like I didn't want anyone to think
01:08:39
friends, family, other chaperons or
01:08:42
adults. I didn't want them to think that
01:08:44
it was anything more than just friends.
01:08:46
And for right obviously for
01:08:48
homeschooling for our group to have a
01:08:50
prom where it was okay to invite and go
01:08:53
with you know guy girl instead of just
01:08:56
everyone showing up like the normal
01:08:58
dances. I think that put a lot of
01:09:00
pressure especially on me being like
01:09:02
okay well you're my good friend. you you
01:09:06
would be the best person to do this
01:09:08
with, but I'm not asking you out to say,
01:09:13
you know, maybe we can be in a
01:09:15
relationship, like anything like that.
01:09:16
It was just like, "By the way, we're
01:09:18
just friends." So, we get it out, you
01:09:20
know, all clear from the get-go because
01:09:23
there's going to be a lot of people
01:09:24
there, and I don't want people to assume
01:09:26
that we're
01:09:27
>> all of a sudden because people will talk
01:09:29
and and I was very concerned that, you
01:09:31
know, what if my parents find out and
01:09:33
think that it was something other than
01:09:35
just friendship, you know, and I was
01:09:37
just very concerned with because the
01:09:40
parents watched and they watched at the
01:09:42
dances. they, you know, had an eye on
01:09:46
everything and and
01:09:47
>> the the dances like no one showed up
01:09:50
together,
01:09:51
>> but if you showed up with someone else
01:09:53
who was not your family, people saw and
01:09:56
people commented on it. And so I felt
01:09:59
like I was just very careful because I
01:10:00
didn't want any rumors to get out. Not
01:10:03
that that rumor would be bad by any
01:10:05
means, but I was still just like so
01:10:09
worried about getting in trouble.
01:10:12
I feel like it was like having parents
01:10:15
but like having like a billion parents
01:10:18
watching you and that's an exaggeration
01:10:20
obviously but like everybody's parents
01:10:22
are kind of like watching. So like I
01:10:24
remember um I used to hang out east and
01:10:28
Aventura a lot and I would hang out with
01:10:30
with some girls and we would go get
01:10:33
coffee, go get ice cream, whatever.
01:10:36
>> We just hang out. No big deal. Whatever.
01:10:38
So we but we would always end up at this
01:10:40
one Starbucks and one of the homeschool
01:10:43
moms just so happened ran into me
01:10:44
multiple times with different girls and
01:10:47
then made it a thing of like going and
01:10:50
telling somebody and being like is it
01:10:52
basically is Jacob like getting around
01:10:54
kind of a thing like
01:10:56
>> and I was just like I'm hanging out with
01:10:58
friends like and I'm also allowed to
01:11:00
hang out with friends of the opposite
01:11:03
sex and my parents trust me that
01:11:05
nothing's happening kind of a deal and
01:11:07
their parents trust them that nothing's
01:11:09
happening. I will never forget uh the f
01:11:13
the first time I got like left alone
01:11:15
with a girl that was uh I'm trying to
01:11:18
remember. I'm trying to remember exactly
01:11:19
what happened, but like uh I spent a lot
01:11:22
of time at the Bozart's house. Love that
01:11:24
family to death, but like I remember
01:11:26
getting left alone at their house with
01:11:28
one of their girls and like and being
01:11:30
like, "Whoa, this is weird." Like how?
01:11:35
And it the reality is it wasn't weird.
01:11:37
It was the fact that it felt weird
01:11:40
because it was like, well, what if
01:11:41
someone finds out that we were like
01:11:43
alone together? And it's like, yeah,
01:11:45
>> then nothing. It's a nothing burger.
01:11:47
Like, we're just friends. But like
01:11:50
>> I there's this weird kind of level of
01:11:53
like
01:11:55
because we didn't talk about it in in
01:11:57
our groups of like it's okay to do these
01:11:59
things in the purity culture play in
01:12:01
there of like you know there there's
01:12:04
this kind of uncomfortable sense that
01:12:07
like you're doing something wrong even
01:12:09
though you're not doing anything wrong.
01:12:11
>> Well, I always Yeah, exactly. I always
01:12:13
found myself wondering, but like I'm not
01:12:17
thinking this about this person, but
01:12:18
what if they're having thoughts about me
01:12:20
that I don't know? Like we've never
01:12:21
talked about this.
01:12:23
>> And it's like, okay, then they're
01:12:24
sinning, but am I sinning as well?
01:12:26
Because I'm in the room alone. What if?
01:12:29
What could happen? And then my mind
01:12:30
would just spiral. And it was like, you
01:12:33
know, obviously first worry was that
01:12:34
people would find out, but like second
01:12:36
worry was like, what if they like me?
01:12:38
What if they, you know, they want to try
01:12:40
something? What if I'm not ready for it?
01:12:42
what if I want to try something like and
01:12:44
I didn't know it was such a cluster of
01:12:47
thoughts that I just it was I didn't
01:12:50
know like I just didn't know what to do
01:12:54
in that situation and yeah that
01:12:56
absolutely I mean
01:12:59
it's frightening es then and when you
01:13:01
don't talk about it ahead of time like
01:13:03
you're going to start to feel these
01:13:04
feelings for people or you know your
01:13:07
your mind's going to go weird places
01:13:09
it's and that's normal. Um, yeah, would
01:13:12
have been nice to kind of know that.
01:13:15
>> Yeah, I agree with you. I think that
01:13:16
kind of if maybe our parents had given
01:13:19
us that context of like, hey, it's gonna
01:13:21
like you're going to feel this way. It's
01:13:22
going to it's normal. It's okay. Like,
01:13:25
and talked about the difference between
01:13:26
like like a crush and infatuation as
01:13:30
compared to like, okay, here's like
01:13:32
actually what maybe more of a
01:13:34
relationship would look like and those
01:13:36
types of things. Because like
01:13:38
>> even today, I still like
01:13:41
I mean, we're over a decade out of this
01:13:43
thing at this point, and I still look
01:13:44
back and I'm like, there are times when
01:13:46
I look at it and I go, "What? Well, how
01:13:48
did this person feel about the
01:13:50
situation?" Cuz like,
01:13:51
>> yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:13:52
>> Would things be different? And I mean,
01:13:53
that's a big like would and like I'm not
01:13:55
trying to like look back and be like
01:13:56
regretful of any of it, but it's like
01:13:58
it's just one of those things where I'm
01:13:59
like it's such an interesting
01:14:02
I don't know, maybe I think way too much
01:14:04
about it and it's like too much
01:14:05
experience.
01:14:06
>> I I absolutely do. I mean uh there were
01:14:11
I was trying to think of how to say that
01:14:13
without dropping anyone's names. It's
01:14:15
not going to be able I was going to talk
01:14:16
about importance of being earnest and
01:14:19
there's
01:14:20
>> that was a time that's for sure.
01:14:22
>> No. Yeah, that was a time. I'll just
01:14:24
leave it at that. Um but I mean yeah
01:14:27
that was a good example but
01:14:29
>> I mean I think theater in general it was
01:14:30
like kind of weird because we started to
01:14:34
there was like this there was definitely
01:14:36
a shift there became a shift I think in
01:14:39
the theater where it was like as we got
01:14:41
older we wanted to start doing less
01:14:45
>> plays and more like adult
01:14:49
>> themes and things like that which
01:14:50
involve romance and kissing on stage.
01:14:53
Well, how do you do that in a way that's
01:14:55
like
01:14:56
whatever and you know protective of
01:14:59
people and all those things? And so we
01:15:00
all learned like stage kissing and like
01:15:02
all these types of things.
01:15:04
>> And it's like well that's really weird
01:15:06
when you also don't have like
01:15:10
any type of sexual outlet so to speak.
01:15:13
Like I think that's the thing that I
01:15:15
think that's the the part that made it
01:15:17
weird.
01:15:17
>> It was kind of a like you're we're in
01:15:20
puberty. we're in like sexual peakness,
01:15:23
so to speak. Like it's just rampant at
01:15:25
that point. Hormones are crazy. But
01:15:27
like, so you're dealing with that and
01:15:29
then you're put in this in a lot of
01:15:31
scenarios where like it's basically like
01:15:34
parents making you feel like like this
01:15:37
is not like not sexual, like you
01:15:39
shouldn't be feeling sexual,
01:15:42
but then you're putting these scenarios
01:15:44
like theater where it's like, okay, but
01:15:45
you have to like fake kiss someone or
01:15:47
you have to hold hands with people or
01:15:48
you have to do anything. And so even if
01:15:49
you're not necessarily like even if you
01:15:51
just have a crush on that person, you're
01:15:53
like
01:15:54
>> I'm freaking out inside.
01:15:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. I remember feeling the exact
01:15:59
same way. I was in a show. I will not
01:16:02
disclose what show, but I was in a show
01:16:04
uh where I had to be in love with
01:16:06
someone. And the person who was playing
01:16:10
opposite of me, I didn't think any
01:16:14
feelings for at all before that. like
01:16:17
not a thought, was a cool person, but
01:16:20
that was about it. By the end of that
01:16:22
show, I had such a raging crush on this
01:16:24
person because
01:16:27
you have to be put in these situations
01:16:29
that I had never been put in before
01:16:32
>> and like I have to hold hands with this
01:16:34
person. I have to touch this person's
01:16:36
chest. I was like really weird about
01:16:38
that because I I didn't grow up with
01:16:40
brothers. I I don't know how to put
01:16:43
that. And but like the male species was
01:16:48
just so foreign to me. I didn't know
01:16:49
anything about them. And now I have to
01:16:54
be super close with one and act like I'm
01:16:56
in love with them and sing a song where
01:16:58
I'm in love with them and you know the
01:17:00
fake kiss and you have to hold their
01:17:02
hand. It was just it was so funny how
01:17:05
convinced I was that oh this is reality.
01:17:09
This is how you fall in love is I have a
01:17:12
crush on this person now. And then the
01:17:14
show ends and you go about your life and
01:17:17
you never see that person like
01:17:19
>> right
01:17:19
>> aside from random times and I just
01:17:21
remember being so confused because I was
01:17:24
like wait this this felt like what love
01:17:28
was like this this felt so fun and so
01:17:31
good and I didn't even like this person
01:17:33
but now I do but it's because of you
01:17:36
know in theater you have to act and I
01:17:39
couldn't dist like I couldn't separate
01:17:41
that from reality to me it felt reality
01:17:44
>> and like you said, you know, the fake
01:17:46
kissing, you have to be married to this
01:17:48
person. I mean, and some of the the
01:17:51
shows that we were in had some very
01:17:53
adult themes and they would either just
01:17:55
let's brush past it or let's change the
01:17:58
words or, you know, but the reality was
01:18:01
still the same. We were all very curious
01:18:02
and we were all I feel like we just
01:18:05
didn't know
01:18:08
anything like we were I was just so
01:18:10
clueless and
01:18:12
>> Yeah. Yeah, I just I remember that the
01:18:14
second you said theater was like, oh
01:18:16
yeah, it was a fun situation and then
01:18:19
all of a sudden you have to, oh, I'm
01:18:21
acting like I'm in love with this
01:18:23
person. Maybe I am in love with them,
01:18:25
you know?
01:18:25
>> Yeah. Experienced it before and and I
01:18:29
wanted that feeling again, but I I
01:18:31
didn't know how to go about getting
01:18:33
that,
01:18:33
>> right?
01:18:34
>> Because I Yeah. No experience.
01:18:36
>> I think it was weird. Like I'm even
01:18:37
trying to think of like did we know
01:18:39
anybody who dated? I'm trying to even
01:18:41
remember. Like I just don't it just
01:18:43
really was like nothing.
01:18:46
>> Everybody had crushes on people and
01:18:48
everybody oh it was all about who likes
01:18:51
likes someone. You know you can like
01:18:53
them but if you like them like like them
01:18:55
like them. It was a big deal.
01:18:58
>> But no one did anything about it. I I
01:19:00
you know I just had crushes and I would
01:19:03
try to talk to that person would fail
01:19:05
miserably. I'd write journal entries
01:19:08
about that person. I would write little
01:19:09
fake letters to that person. Like
01:19:12
everyone in their mother knew I liked
01:19:14
that person but didn't do anything past
01:19:16
that. And I don't know anyone who
01:19:20
succeeded at doing that.
01:19:23
And I don't know anybody who really
01:19:24
talked about like, hey, it's okay to ask
01:19:27
someone out or it's okay to, you know,
01:19:30
go on a date with this person. Like I
01:19:31
don't feel like anyone really did that.
01:19:33
And I didn't didn't know anyone
01:19:36
>> who had girlfriends
01:19:39
really or boyfriend. Like nobody I knew
01:19:42
dated anyone. It was all just like fiery
01:19:45
crushes that no one said anything about.
01:19:48
I think that's also what made it even
01:19:50
more awkward in in the long run was the
01:19:52
fact that then like
01:19:56
>> you don't want to be the first person to
01:19:57
like break ground on that, you know, cuz
01:20:01
then like you're going to just be
01:20:02
bombarded with people always asking
01:20:05
questions and like I don't know about
01:20:08
you, but like also like I know
01:20:12
that like
01:20:14
there was kind of also this push for
01:20:16
like an additional like the purity
01:20:18
culture stuff, this like courtship thing
01:20:20
and like you know having parents be very
01:20:23
involved and other people be very
01:20:25
involved in your relationship and like
01:20:26
very much giving it to God and like it's
01:20:30
very
01:20:31
it's like a community activity so to
01:20:34
speak and then like
01:20:36
>> so weird to think about it now like
01:20:40
yeah because in the Bible and and the
01:20:42
books that I read it was always about
01:20:45
courtship and like you
01:20:47
having family involved and
01:20:50
there was no sense of privacy if you
01:20:53
went that route. And I remember being
01:20:54
conflicted because it was like,
01:20:57
>> but this this is my thing. Like I
01:20:59
remember when my mom found out who my
01:21:01
big crush was
01:21:02
>> and I got punished because not for
01:21:05
having a crush, but because I was so
01:21:07
intense with it. I was making other
01:21:08
people uncomfortable because I just
01:21:10
didn't know what to do or how to handle
01:21:11
the crush. And I remember feeling awful
01:21:14
because I was punished for having a
01:21:15
crush, which was a natural feeling. But
01:21:17
I wasn't coached on how to deal with
01:21:20
those feelings or encourage like if you
01:21:23
really like this person, there's ways to
01:21:25
tell that person between you and that
01:21:29
person. You know, you don't have to have
01:21:31
your family involved. And and it's such
01:21:33
a weird thing to think about now, the
01:21:35
idea of courtship and having people
01:21:37
involved because it's
01:21:39
>> there was no sense of privacy and it was
01:21:42
Yeah, that was just normal. And when you
01:21:45
get out of that, it's like whoa. Like,
01:21:48
like you said, it was a community event
01:21:50
if someone had a boyfriend or a
01:21:52
girlfriend, which is feels very uh old
01:21:57
timey.
01:21:58
>> When I got to college, it was very
01:22:00
interesting because like I I knew that I
01:22:04
was like available to date at that
01:22:06
point, but I I didn't know what to do.
01:22:10
So, I was very like
01:22:12
I took way too long to get to the point
01:22:14
of like asking someone out because I was
01:22:16
just like I didn't know what to do. Like
01:22:18
and I don't know how I didn't feel like
01:22:20
I knew how to maybe like I said go from
01:22:23
like friend to like friend plus where
01:22:25
it's like I want this to be a little bit
01:22:26
more serious but like I'm not like let's
01:22:28
go make out kind of a thing. Like I just
01:22:30
kind of want it to be like
01:22:32
>> like a little bit more intention where
01:22:33
I'm like I I like you like you. Um, and
01:22:36
you know, so maybe can we spend more
01:22:38
like alone time together and get to know
01:22:40
each other better? And so it was really
01:22:43
weird because like my first kind of like
01:22:46
dating so to speak, like was a semi-lind
01:22:50
state where like she asked her friend to
01:22:53
like set up a date with me and I didn't
01:22:55
know this girl at all. So like basically
01:22:57
like showed up, we did the thing and I
01:22:59
was like but I kind of go into it with
01:23:01
this understanding that like she
01:23:03
obviously finds me attractive. she wants
01:23:05
to hang out with me
01:23:06
>> in a romantic sense. Okay. So, that took
01:23:10
that out of my mind. So, I was kind of
01:23:11
like fortunate because I was like,
01:23:13
"Okay, I already have the answer to the
01:23:14
question of like, do you like me?" Like,
01:23:18
and and it was fun. We had a great time
01:23:20
and then like we would spend time with
01:23:22
friends and like do some alone stuff and
01:23:24
we had a good group of friends and like
01:23:26
it was very
01:23:28
>> normal. But because I didn't have any
01:23:31
training, I fell really hard for this
01:23:33
person. And then they didn't feel the
01:23:35
same way and I was like,
01:23:37
>> "Okay, what do I like with all of that?"
01:23:39
And it like kind of destroyed me and it
01:23:41
was
01:23:42
>> yeah, it was like very weird and put me
01:23:45
in a really big funk. But like
01:23:48
like looking back on it, I'm like I
01:23:49
don't know that I would change anything
01:23:50
about it aside from I now know that I'm
01:23:54
like okay like I committed really hard
01:23:57
to this thing that was it was it should
01:24:00
have just been very casual and just like
01:24:02
we're getting to know each other on like
01:24:04
that friend plus level
01:24:06
>> kind of a thing. So when I ended up
01:24:08
dating my wife, it was interesting
01:24:09
because like we were friends first.
01:24:12
Well, we were enemies first. enemies to
01:24:15
friends to lovers. Um,
01:24:17
>> but when we we were friends and so a lot
01:24:20
we spent a lot of time with other people
01:24:22
and then and then it started being like
01:24:25
just the two of us and then it was like
01:24:27
oh okay and I took forever to get to the
01:24:31
point where I was like oh I think I like
01:24:33
like you like you kind of a thing
01:24:36
>> and
01:24:37
>> that was I mean when I asked her out I'm
01:24:39
sure it came off sounding so awkward
01:24:42
because I was like I want to like take
01:24:44
you out as Like,
01:24:46
>> yeah,
01:24:46
>> more than friends. Like, I think I did
01:24:48
the opposite of like the prom thing
01:24:49
where we're like, "But we're just
01:24:50
friends." Like, I think I did the
01:24:51
opposite where I was like, "I want to go
01:24:52
do this thing." And she's like, "Yeah,
01:24:53
let's go do it." I'm like, "Okay, but
01:24:55
like just to clarify, like more than
01:24:57
friends, like
01:25:00
like um crash and burn. How do I say
01:25:04
this? I'm just gonna go for it."
01:25:05
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, I think I like went
01:25:07
the opposite way with it where I was
01:25:09
just like, "Okay, now instead of
01:25:10
clarifying,
01:25:12
you know, we're just friends. I need to
01:25:13
clarify like no, like
01:25:15
>> I want to pay I want this to be
01:25:18
romantic." Um,
01:25:19
>> yeah. Yeah.
01:25:20
>> Yeah. Which I mean, hey, it worked out.
01:25:22
So, you know, it's okay. But
01:25:24
>> yeah, I was going to say you're good.
01:25:27
But
01:25:27
>> yeah, but it was like a very weird
01:25:30
because she doesn't have the I think the
01:25:33
dating hang-ups that like I had where I
01:25:35
was just kind of like I because even in
01:25:37
our relationship it's like I didn't know
01:25:39
how to
01:25:41
progress through the different like
01:25:43
levels of a relationship to get to
01:25:46
marriage even. And like I think that was
01:25:49
just a very
01:25:51
>> I had competing things in my brain where
01:25:52
I was like
01:25:54
>> am I in it fully with this person of
01:25:57
like
01:25:58
>> like I feel romantic towards them but
01:26:00
like I was not sure if they were like
01:26:02
the one
01:26:04
>> you know and so like I think there's it
01:26:06
it was weird. It was very strange cuz
01:26:07
like like we mentioned earlier there was
01:26:09
kind of this like once you start dating
01:26:11
somebody
01:26:12
>> that should be the person like you made
01:26:14
you made your choice.
01:26:16
>> Yeah.
01:26:16
>> Yeah. There was no there was no gray
01:26:19
area for anything. And it was, you know,
01:26:22
once we started getting older, we saw
01:26:24
people get together and get married very
01:26:27
fast. And I knew I didn't want that, but
01:26:30
I also knew, well, but I have to pick
01:26:33
the right one because that's going to be
01:26:34
my husband. Like, I can't, you know,
01:26:37
there's no other option.
01:26:39
And when I started going to college and
01:26:43
started seeing the rest of the world
01:26:45
didn't do things that way, it was very
01:26:48
scary and it made me like not want to
01:26:51
take part in that. Um, and then, you
01:26:55
know, I I got my first boyfriend at 23
01:26:58
and um, still had no idea what I was
01:27:02
doing. Um, that was a whole roller
01:27:04
coaster of a relationship that I don't
01:27:06
have to get into, but essentially
01:27:09
I knew pretty fairly
01:27:12
pretty early on that he wasn't going to
01:27:14
be my future husband. But I didn't know
01:27:17
how to break it off or I didn't know how
01:27:20
to just be casual and and I didn't feel
01:27:24
okay with just casual dating because
01:27:27
>> you you can't just casually date someone
01:27:29
and then you know go along and then
01:27:32
eventually break up like no it has to be
01:27:34
forever. And so that caused me to spiral
01:27:37
severely when I we ended that
01:27:39
relationship. And then I I dove deep
01:27:42
into a lot of unhealthy relationships
01:27:45
and expected, like how you said, I fell
01:27:49
really hard for those people really
01:27:51
fast. And my brain didn't know
01:27:56
that that
01:27:58
that I was falling so hard for these
01:28:00
people and that I was so upset when they
01:28:02
would ghost me or cut me off because it
01:28:05
was like, wait, that's not what's
01:28:07
supposed to happen. And then it was just
01:28:09
this repetitive cycle of like it kept
01:28:12
happening and then it was like this is
01:28:15
not what I thought was going to happen
01:28:17
with my life. I was supposed to find the
01:28:19
one. I was supposed to find the one. I
01:28:20
put it all on myself and then it was
01:28:22
it's hard when you fall so hard for
01:28:24
someone because and I didn't know
01:28:27
better. I was like, well, this is the
01:28:28
person fall hard, get broken up with.
01:28:31
Oh, wait. I guess that wasn't the
01:28:32
person. Do it again. You know, instead
01:28:34
of just
01:28:35
>> stepping back and allowing myself to
01:28:38
just be friends with people and
01:28:39
realizing that it it does kind of just
01:28:42
happen when you're not looking for it.
01:28:45
Like I tried so hard to find the one and
01:28:48
when I did it happened when I was least
01:28:51
expecting it which I think is hilarious
01:28:53
and
01:28:55
>> we were just friends
01:28:56
>> and I didn't know how to you know I had
01:28:58
learned from other relationships that
01:29:00
you know
01:29:01
>> I had decided that guys wanted sex and
01:29:03
if they wanted that that's what was
01:29:05
going to happen and and so that just I
01:29:08
did that pattern repeatedly and when I
01:29:12
met my now boyfriend I was like okay
01:29:14
That's that's probably all you want,
01:29:17
right? And then it was like, wait,
01:29:20
you're a genuine person. Wait, we're
01:29:22
really good friends. Wait, we just spent
01:29:23
a week talking every single day. Like,
01:29:27
and there was we couldn't even think
01:29:29
about hugging each other because it was
01:29:32
awkward. Like, it just was different.
01:29:34
And And that's really just I feel like
01:29:36
that's how it happens. It happens when
01:29:37
you're least expecting it. And growing
01:29:40
up so unaware of what happened during
01:29:44
dating caused me to kind of I don't know
01:29:49
just
01:29:52
have these expectations for each person
01:29:53
that I dated that they were going to be
01:29:55
my future husband. And when they didn't
01:29:56
meet those expectations it was just that
01:29:59
repetitive cycle which sucked and was
01:30:02
really you know hard because then you
01:30:03
meet that non-toxic relationship and you
01:30:06
almost sabotage it yourself because
01:30:09
You're used to toxicity.
01:30:11
>> Well, and the the thing about like
01:30:13
building a relationship, I mean, Maddie
01:30:14
and I were together. We got together
01:30:17
I was 19. We got married when I was 22.
01:30:19
So, we were together for 3 years. 20
01:30:22
about to be 29. So, I mean, there we go.
01:30:24
Another seven years. But like, we went
01:30:27
through so many things as a couple
01:30:30
before we were ever even like broaching
01:30:33
the topic of marriage of like the her
01:30:35
taking care of me. I had surgery. she
01:30:37
took care of me. Um, my grandma died.
01:30:40
She was there. She was part of that. She
01:30:42
was like supportive. And so, like all of
01:30:44
these things that
01:30:47
I think I was under the impression that
01:30:50
they were like these were things that,
01:30:52
yeah, happened with a significant other,
01:30:54
but like more in the context of like
01:30:56
marriage where they would support you
01:30:57
for that kind of thing.
01:30:58
And and so when I started to see that
01:31:01
like, okay, somebody could be those
01:31:03
things for me or just be there to
01:31:06
support me in times like that, I was
01:31:08
like, okay, like this feels a lot more
01:31:13
solid. Like it felt it was different. It
01:31:15
really solidified to me that like our
01:31:17
relationship was more than friendship,
01:31:21
but it was Yeah. And it was on the way
01:31:23
to to marriage. And so I think one of
01:31:27
the things that you brought up that I
01:31:29
think was really interesting is like
01:31:30
your mindset of like guys are just in it
01:31:32
for sex. And and I would agree that a
01:31:35
lot of guys I think are
01:31:37
>> kind of that's what we're told all like
01:31:40
growing up is like guys that's all we
01:31:43
can think about every however many
01:31:45
seconds or whatever you know we think
01:31:47
about sex. And I think that
01:31:50
it's kind of it's been so baked into
01:31:54
society
01:31:55
that that's the reality for men when the
01:31:58
reality is like we also want a lot of
01:32:01
other things. Like sex is a component of
01:32:03
a romantic relationship that we of
01:32:05
course I think everybody should want
01:32:07
that. It's very normal. That's human.
01:32:09
That's human.
01:32:10
>> Um but like there's a lot more to it.
01:32:14
And I think I think a lot of guys get
01:32:16
robbed of that because they're not told
01:32:19
like
01:32:21
what else they should be like looking
01:32:23
for like the emotional component of a
01:32:26
relationship. And so you end up with
01:32:27
like guys that are really crummy because
01:32:30
they don't like
01:32:32
>> they don't know how to give a partner
01:32:35
like the the emotional side of
01:32:37
themselves because they're just it's all
01:32:39
physical. Um or what they've been told
01:32:40
is just like it's physicality. And so,
01:32:43
>> yeah,
01:32:44
>> hopefully we can get to a point where
01:32:46
it's like we can kind of start to
01:32:48
balance the two a little bit more where
01:32:50
it's like, you know, everyone has this
01:32:52
ability to tap into like the the the
01:32:54
feminine and the masculine energy for
01:32:56
lack of better terms, but like
01:32:58
>> like we have the ability to tap into
01:33:00
both sides of those for for ourselves
01:33:03
and and that's okay. Like emotional
01:33:06
dudes, like that's okay. And like I've
01:33:09
met your boyfriend. He's super cool and
01:33:11
very open and like the way he talks
01:33:13
about life. I'm like this
01:33:15
>> he seems like a much more well-rounded
01:33:17
person than like a lot of dudes.
01:33:20
>> And yeah, and that's that's what caught
01:33:22
my attention is that he wasn't like
01:33:24
other dudes or at least dudes that I
01:33:26
had, you know, guys that I had been with
01:33:28
in the past. And it was like and he said
01:33:30
early on it was like you know he he like
01:33:34
you said the he did have that mindset of
01:33:37
like sure sex is a part of a
01:33:39
relationship whether you have that
01:33:41
before after marriage depends on the
01:33:43
person but like the biggest thing for
01:33:45
him was personality and he really fell
01:33:48
in love with my personality and who I
01:33:50
was and I was able to do that as well
01:33:53
and like you said go through all of I
01:33:55
mean we're not married yet and we plan
01:33:57
on it but we're we're not married yet
01:33:59
and we've gone through so much together
01:34:01
as a couple and you have to in my
01:34:03
opinion in order to build that
01:34:06
relationship and like you said you
01:34:08
realize that oh like we went through
01:34:10
like hell and back and we did it
01:34:12
together like if you're in it for that
01:34:16
>> yeah exactly I think that there's kind
01:34:18
of this I mean we know a lot of pe I
01:34:21
mean I would even argue I got married
01:34:23
really young 22 is very young to get
01:34:25
married but
01:34:26
>> um But like we know a lot of people who
01:34:29
got married pretty young, sometimes
01:34:31
teenagers. Um, and like it's interesting
01:34:34
because like sometimes there's not that
01:34:39
there's not that built out like
01:34:41
relationship aspect of like
01:34:43
>> Yeah.
01:34:44
>> I don't know. Like it could still
01:34:45
happen. Like that's not to say it can't
01:34:47
happen, but I I'm trying to think of how
01:34:49
what I'm trying to say here, but like
01:34:51
>> I know for me, I needed the 3 years that
01:34:54
it took to figure out that like, oh,
01:34:56
this is more this is what I'm looking
01:34:59
for, so to speak. Like I just needed the
01:35:02
time to do that and
01:35:04
>> like so just everyone works on their own
01:35:06
schedule and that's okay. And like, you
01:35:08
know,
01:35:08
>> yeah, if you know, you know, and if you
01:35:10
want to, you know, if you want to get
01:35:12
married, that's right away. That's
01:35:13
that's your call. I I think just you and
01:35:16
I are very similar in the fact that like
01:35:19
I need to know that like that's the
01:35:21
person and I mean I've known for a while
01:35:24
but also
01:35:25
yeah there's just I think society puts a
01:35:28
lot of timelines on things like oh well
01:35:31
you're not married by two years in
01:35:32
dating
01:35:33
>> he's he's just dragging his feet or he
01:35:36
just doesn't actually want to marry you
01:35:37
this that and the other
01:35:38
>> sure for some cases that could be just
01:35:40
not in the case for me I know that you
01:35:43
know if I asked him to he
01:35:45
proposed, you know, on the minute, but
01:35:47
uh we we've established that we have
01:35:50
that soulmate connection. So, it's
01:35:53
almost like
01:35:54
I know that's going to happen, but I'm
01:35:57
in no rush. I have friends who have been
01:35:59
together 10 plus years and they've, you
01:36:00
know, they're basically married, but
01:36:02
they haven't actually gotten that step.
01:36:05
And that's okay, too. Like, there's a
01:36:06
different timeline for different people.
01:36:08
And it's it's hard when people in
01:36:11
society just assume that, you know,
01:36:13
well, yeah, what are you doing if you're
01:36:15
not married by x amount of years? Like,
01:36:17
>> I've reframed it a lot. I've had to
01:36:19
reframe it. And obviously, if for people
01:36:21
who listen and you know this, Carrie,
01:36:23
like I I deconstructed religion, not a
01:36:25
Christian anymore. Like I don't
01:36:27
subscribe to a lot of biblical anything.
01:36:30
Like I just don't like I'm like I you
01:36:32
don't need marriage to be in a happy
01:36:34
relationship. You don't like that's not
01:36:35
the end all beall. you don't live in sin
01:36:37
if you're not married kind of a thing.
01:36:38
Like that's my stance on a lot of stuff.
01:36:40
But also what I realized even before I
01:36:43
left religion was that like
01:36:46
my biblical understanding of what
01:36:48
marriage was
01:36:50
has nothing to do with our societal
01:36:52
understanding of what marriage was. It
01:36:54
was a commitment that like Maddie and I
01:36:56
had decided we were like we are each
01:36:58
other's person and we're going to we're
01:37:00
we're in it for the long haul. And that
01:37:03
was something we shared that was our
01:37:05
connection, our emotional, spiritual,
01:37:08
>> physical connection. And so like that
01:37:10
was enough commitment where I was like,
01:37:11
I'm good. Like I don't need
01:37:14
>> I don't need a paper that says that I'm
01:37:16
legally married. I don't need
01:37:18
>> a blessing from anybody else's parents.
01:37:20
I just that was enough of a connection
01:37:22
for us. And so like
01:37:26
>> that that was good enough. Now like I
01:37:29
also wanted to do we wanted to do the
01:37:31
the full commitment of like also
01:37:34
>> to say full commitment but like we also
01:37:35
wanted to do the like the license and
01:37:37
the marriage all that stuff like okay
01:37:39
cool
01:37:39
>> the le yeah the legal aspect of it but
01:37:42
like
01:37:42
>> you know but if we had decided not to do
01:37:44
that it's like
01:37:46
>> I I think I'd be okay with that too.
01:37:49
>> Yeah. The theme I keep seeing come up in
01:37:52
your podcast and just in conversations
01:37:54
with people is the theme about purity
01:37:56
culture and dating and what dating was
01:37:58
like or the concept of dating I should
01:38:00
say, not even dating and how it had
01:38:03
effects on us as adults. And I think
01:38:05
that's important to talk about and and
01:38:08
bring to light because again I'm not
01:38:11
going to blame anything on the fact that
01:38:13
I was homeschooled. It I am my own
01:38:16
person whether I was homeschooled or
01:38:17
whether I've been to public school. I'll
01:38:19
never know how different I would have
01:38:21
been had I gone to public school. But um
01:38:24
I know that a lot of the morals and
01:38:28
things that were taught to me uh
01:38:30
influenced me and some were for good and
01:38:33
some caused quite a uh quite a rabbit
01:38:37
hole of all sorts of fun stuff.
01:38:41
>> Yeah.
01:38:42
>> That even means
01:38:43
>> stuff we got to Yeah. We're still
01:38:45
working through people. We're still
01:38:46
>> still working through it.
01:38:47
>> And that's life. for you know on our
01:38:49
journeys which is like I think is is
01:38:51
good. I think the thing that I have come
01:38:54
to realize the most and why like I talk
01:38:58
about purity culture so much on this
01:39:00
podcast. One because like I'm dealing
01:39:01
with my own [ __ ] from that. But two,
01:39:05
because like I also still see it
01:39:08
even though a lot of people have
01:39:10
recognized the negative effects of it
01:39:11
and have spoken up about it and even
01:39:13
people within like churches that I went
01:39:15
to who are still part of those churches
01:39:17
speaking up and being against it, I
01:39:19
still see a lot of the effects of that
01:39:21
in place for a lot of people. And
01:39:25
>> and so that's why like I constantly am
01:39:28
talking about just like talk about these
01:39:30
things and like I even see older
01:39:32
generations of people who like I think
01:39:34
the reason that a like our parents
01:39:36
didn't talk to us maybe so much about
01:39:38
sex or relationships or anything like
01:39:40
that was sometimes because like I don't
01:39:42
even know that they knew what like what
01:39:46
that looked like. And so even though
01:39:48
they were in committed marriages, like
01:39:51
they struggled, I think, with
01:39:54
understanding
01:39:56
maybe how to communicate what that
01:39:58
looked like.
01:39:59
>> And
01:40:00
>> I'm sure that was hard. I couldn't
01:40:02
imagine having to do that. Like,
01:40:04
>> and you and you probably worry about too
01:40:06
like you don't want to give your kid
01:40:08
like the green light to just like do
01:40:11
whatever you want. Like it doesn't
01:40:12
matter, you know? Like, but there's
01:40:15
there's
01:40:17
I was I was talking to um I mean, I've
01:40:21
had them on the show, Stephanie Boy and
01:40:23
and Dr. Chz Levby. They've been on the
01:40:25
show before, but like one of the things
01:40:27
that I I talked to them a lot about was
01:40:29
the fact that they're like
01:40:31
>> um
01:40:34
when we weren't given the tools that we
01:40:37
needed, we sought them out other places.
01:40:39
So, like for instance, if my parents
01:40:41
have talked to me about sex, what what
01:40:43
am I going to what am I going to get on
01:40:45
Google and search? I'm going to want to
01:40:47
know what this is, right? I've heard
01:40:48
this term before. I kind of get it. What
01:40:51
am I going to look up? And even if I'm
01:40:52
looking up something that should be
01:40:54
wholesome, I'm probably going to end up
01:40:55
on a porn website and that's going to
01:40:57
skew my version of sex. It's going to
01:41:01
it's it has this impact of like setting
01:41:03
my pallet for like what is normal sexual
01:41:07
relations and in the same way with like
01:41:10
just even the romantic relationship of
01:41:12
understanding what dating looks like and
01:41:14
the expectations to have on a partner
01:41:15
and all those things. If if my parents
01:41:17
aren't talking to me about those things
01:41:18
and giving me an understanding, I'm
01:41:20
going to go to media. I'm going to go to
01:41:22
other places to look for those. Well, is
01:41:25
that a healthy place to go for those?
01:41:27
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. And so it
01:41:30
creates these skewed versions in our
01:41:32
brain of like what is
01:41:34
>> real and what is fantasy and that takes
01:41:37
a long time to un unc un kind of uh
01:41:41
program those things out of our brain.
01:41:43
>> Absolutely. I I share such similar
01:41:47
experiences with that of having to
01:41:50
unlearn what I think is real or what I
01:41:52
think
01:41:53
>> right
01:41:54
>> is is
01:41:57
you know I don't I don't know how else
01:42:00
to put it but it's when you're not
01:42:03
talking about it and sharing about it or
01:42:05
or sharing you know experiences or or
01:42:10
you know just being open about these
01:42:13
things. You're you're going to get
01:42:15
curious as a teenager and you're going
01:42:17
to look other places. And you know,
01:42:19
granted, when I was younger, we didn't
01:42:21
have as much access to the internet, but
01:42:23
there are ways. And now I I get super
01:42:25
nervous for teenagers in this day and
01:42:28
age because technology is everywhere and
01:42:30
porn is everywhere and and it's so
01:42:33
easily accessible. It's in the movies.
01:42:35
It's in TV shows. And you know, it's
01:42:39
it's not doing a good job of showing you
01:42:41
what reality is. And and I'm not saying,
01:42:45
you know, that my parents could have
01:42:47
gone into a deep dive about what exactly
01:42:50
sex is and this, that, and the other,
01:42:51
cuz that obviously at the time would
01:42:53
have been a mortifying conversation to
01:42:54
have with them. But the fact that I just
01:42:58
didn't know how anything worked and it
01:43:00
was this taboo surrounding our our
01:43:05
community.
01:43:06
um I saw it other places, right?
01:43:09
>> And and my brain thought that that's
01:43:13
what reality was. And then I learned
01:43:15
real quick that that's not reality. And
01:43:16
that, you know, and like you said, then
01:43:18
the deconstructing and the unlearning
01:43:21
began. But the the overall theme that I
01:43:24
see from a lot of your episodes is is
01:43:28
just talk about things. Be open or or or
01:43:32
give your kids an open, safe place to
01:43:37
talk about their feelings and and these
01:43:40
things and and anticipate that that's
01:43:43
going to come up. And I I know it's not
01:43:44
easy. I I can't imagine being a parent
01:43:46
myself and having to figure out that
01:43:48
conversation. And it can't have been
01:43:50
hard for my parents because, you know,
01:43:53
back in their day, you just didn't talk
01:43:54
about those things either. You didn't
01:43:56
talk about emotions and and and mental
01:43:59
health just wasn't as much of a thing. I
01:44:01
mean, it was a thing, but it wasn't
01:44:02
talked about then. And so, the way I I
01:44:05
think about it is like if I wanted to
01:44:07
learn to cook, like either my mom was
01:44:10
going to teach me how to learn to cook
01:44:11
or I was going to watch the Food
01:44:12
Network, right? And like now the Food
01:44:15
Network is a great example of the fact
01:44:16
that like I can actually learn a
01:44:18
valuable skill, you know, watching
01:44:20
Rachel Ray or Pauline or whoever else uh
01:44:23
is on there now. But like
01:44:25
>> so but my mom also wasn't it it was
01:44:28
something that like if I wanted to learn
01:44:29
how to cook whatever and my mom didn't
01:44:32
know how to cook that, she could be
01:44:33
like, "Oh, go turn on Food Network and
01:44:35
you'll figure it out. Go search it up on
01:44:37
the internet and you can find it."
01:44:38
>> Yeah.
01:44:39
>> And like there are lots of tools. So,
01:44:41
even for people who don't know how to
01:44:43
talk about relationships, sex, like any
01:44:45
of that kind of stuff, mental health,
01:44:47
that's another great example too of like
01:44:49
if you don't know how to talk about that
01:44:50
as a parent or just even like someone
01:44:52
our age, it's like
01:44:54
>> go seek out resources that are actually
01:44:56
helpful because they exist and like I
01:44:59
have learned so much from actually like
01:45:01
seeking out worthwhile resources
01:45:04
>> and
01:45:06
the like and there are plenty of things
01:45:09
out there that also will help you then
01:45:11
know how to communicate that to somebody
01:45:12
else, right? And so I think that's been
01:45:15
like a huge and therapy can be huge for
01:45:17
people too, like learning the skills to
01:45:19
communicate, but like
01:45:20
>> that I don't know like that's the way
01:45:22
I've kind of reframed it in my brain is
01:45:24
I'm like if I wanted to learn to cook, I
01:45:26
would go like seek out the knowledge to
01:45:27
learn how to cook, right? And so if I
01:45:29
want to know about sex or I want to know
01:45:30
about relationships, I should do the
01:45:31
same. The difference is that like well
01:45:34
this is true with kid cooking too.
01:45:36
There's a lot of bad advice out there.
01:45:37
You got to like figure out what the good
01:45:39
stuff is. And so for someone who's like
01:45:41
coming up and and a kid specifically,
01:45:44
like being able to point them in a
01:45:46
direction that's like, hey, here's
01:45:47
actually like really good advice as
01:45:50
opposed to as opposed to bad advice, you
01:45:52
know, and and so
01:45:54
>> anyway, no, this has been this has been
01:45:57
good. Yeah, we kind of went all over the
01:45:58
place like you said.
01:46:01
>> Um,
01:46:02
>> it just happens. I mean, it it really
01:46:04
you make it so easy to just talk freely
01:46:07
and that's what makes you such a good
01:46:09
podcast. episodes and we can cover a lot
01:46:11
of topics. We have learned that we can
01:46:13
go and it can go anywhere and it it's
01:46:15
great
01:46:16
>> wherever it went and you know if you're
01:46:18
listening and you can resonate with any
01:46:19
of this obviously please share because
01:46:22
we really hope we're not alone and I
01:46:24
know we're not alone. This podcast can
01:46:26
tell you that you're not alone.
01:46:28
>> We're Yeah, Carrie, we are not alone. Um
01:46:31
and we are not alone. We are not the
01:46:32
alone generation either. That's the
01:46:34
thing. like they haven't now had
01:46:36
conversations with people who you know
01:46:37
were homeschooled kids the 70s ' 80s and
01:46:39
'9s like holy [ __ ] like we are we are
01:46:42
not alone in a lot of this thinking and
01:46:44
even now having conversations with
01:46:45
homeschool kids that graduated in like
01:46:47
2020 like
01:46:50
>> and they're still going through the same
01:46:51
thing. It's like that's that's wild to
01:46:53
me. So you know we're very much not
01:46:56
alone um in a lot of this. So, I mean,
01:46:58
for anybody who's listening or watching,
01:47:00
whatever, is there stuff you weren't
01:47:02
allowed to do? Like, stuff you weren't
01:47:04
allowed to watch, listen to, read,
01:47:07
dating. Was there other stuff you
01:47:08
weren't allowed to do? Like, I want to
01:47:09
know. Drop it in the comments. Drop it,
01:47:12
you know, shoot me an email, exhib.
01:47:20
Uh, but yeah, I mean, Carrie, if there's
01:47:22
nothing else, I mean, this has been
01:47:23
fantastic. I knew part two would be
01:47:26
wonderful with you anyways, but
01:47:28
>> Oh, thank you. Yeah. No, I I just I just
01:47:30
hope that I can share openly and
01:47:33
honestly my experience and if it helps
01:47:36
even just one person not feel alone or
01:47:38
resonate with any of this, that makes my
01:47:40
day. And you know, um, just I thank you
01:47:45
for creating a safe platform to talk
01:47:48
about it and to bring to light a lot of
01:47:50
things that
01:47:52
Sorry, my cat. Bring to light a lot of
01:47:54
things that um, you know, we went
01:47:56
through growing up homeschooled.
01:47:59
>> Well, you made me not feel alone. So
01:48:02
that you know, there you go. You're one
01:48:03
person.
01:48:04
>> Yeah.
01:48:06
>> But I'm sure there will be more. So like
01:48:08
I said, thank you again. Thank you for
01:48:10
coming on the show and coming back.
01:48:12
Coming back for part two. I'm sure there
01:48:14
will be a part three somewhere in the
01:48:16
future. So, and probably not a year from
01:48:18
now.
01:48:20
>> Yeah. Yeah. We'll make sure.
01:48:23
>> We'll make sure. Yeah. So, anyway, thank
01:48:25
you once again and to all the wonderful
01:48:27
listeners, watchers, consumers of this
01:48:30
podcast, thank you for sticking around.
01:48:32
Hopefully, you stuck around this long. I
01:48:33
mean, we're almost at two hours at this
01:48:34
point, and I know it's it's going to be
01:48:36
trimmed down just a little bit, but you
01:48:37
get the real raw conversation. So, uh,
01:48:40
hopefully you enjoyed it as well. And if
01:48:41
you did, do all of the internet things
01:48:43
that you know how to do. Like,
01:48:44
subscribe, share it with a friend, leave
01:48:45
a comment, all all of this stuff. You
01:48:47
know what to do, okay? We are 2025. We
01:48:50
have had the internet for long enough at
01:48:52
this point. You know what to do. So,
01:48:53
please just do it. Um, and uh, yeah,
01:48:56
until I see you next. All right. Peace.
01:49:00
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01:49:11
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