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Hey, hey, hey. What is good my exhies? It is your boy Jacob Gooden, and we are back for a special anniversary episode.
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A happy oneyear birthday to the Exhomeschoolers club. I can't believe it's been a year already. Uh it's
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actually technically been a few weeks, over a year, but I missed it. But it's
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okay. We're we're celebrating today. Today is the birthday party uh of the
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podcast. I can't believe it's been a year. It's been an insane year. I've
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done way more with this show. Uh all thanks to you guys. Um, so round of applause for you. Uh, but I'm I'm so
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stoked for this special episode. Uh, I brought back the OG, the the first interview of this podcast. Uh, my good
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friend, arguably my bestest homeschool friend, uh, Carrie France is back for a special episode. We're going to be
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chatting about all the things we didn't get to do as homeschoolers. Okay? All
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the things we missed out on from media, right? books and movies and uh music and
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all all kinds of pop culture stuff that we missed out on to we even chat a little bit about like dating and
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relationships uh just the things that we missed out on as homeschoolers and we kind of got to experience a little bit
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later in life. But it's so much fun. Carrie and I always have a good time. I
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hope that translates well for you guys. Before I turn it over to the past versions of ourselves, I have a favor to
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ask. And that is whatever you're listening to this on, whatever you're watching this, consuming this on, do me
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a favor. Go down in the comments, go down in the review section, leave a little happy birthday message and tell
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me not only happy birthday, but also tell me about your favorite moment of the Exometers Club. If you've been us
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with us from the day one, whether you joined along the way, whatever it's been, hit me with what has been one of
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your favorite moments of of the show, of the episodes, what a topic, a person, an
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event, anything that's been super impactful for you. I would love to hear it. Um, and I'd love to know, you know,
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what what can I bring you more of uh to to keep this thing going. So, with that,
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I'm going to turn it over to the past version of myself, to the past version
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of Carrie, and uh yeah, let's have a good time. [Music] For those of you who don't know you, I
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mean, Carrie France is one of my best homeschool friends from back in the day. She's gone on vacation with my family.
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We've spent a bunch of time at each other's houses. We went to prom together. All that stuff we talked about
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in our last episode, which was like I think the second episode of this podcast. So, if you haven't listened to
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that, go back and listen to that episode cuz it was a lot of fun. That's not what
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we're going to talk about today. So, I'm not even going to ask you like your
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homeschool journey or anything like that. We're going to just talk on like stuff we weren't allowed to do as goody
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shoe Christian homeschool kids. And uh I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
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>> Yeah, I think so, too. I'm excited to share and see if anybody else relates to
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the same sort of upbringing that we had about stuff we were allowed to do and then the stuff we weren't allowed to do.
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>> Where do we where do we even start? I feel like I mean we could go down the
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books rabbit hole or the movies rabbit hole but like I don't know I mean was
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there is there anything that comes to mind like top of mind for you when you go okay like I wasn't allowed to do that
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and then when I became an adult like I realized like why wasn't I allowed to do
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that or >> yeah I mean just I guess starting with media is one of the first topics there
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was a lot of media books TV movies that were not allowed in our house I think A big one that a lot of other
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homeschoolers can probably relate to is Harry Potter. Uh we were not allowed to watch or read Harry Potter. I did have
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some friends who were fortunate enough to be allowed to read uh the books and watch the movies and I was always
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slightly envious that they were, you know, ahead of ahead of uh am I trying to say that they were super immersed in
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the popular culture and uh but yeah, we weren't allowed to watch or read it. I
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was told that it had a lot of witchcraft and um that it just it wasn't it wasn't
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good uh things to consume. >> Same same reasoning like too much witchcraft, too much wizardry. I think
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what my parents really struggled with was that >> because like I was allowed to read Lord
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of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia was okay. Like and that also has wizards, witches, like that has magical elements
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to it, magical beasts, things that do not exist, like very fantasy. I think the difference was that Harry Potter, it
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was like much more like on a day-by-day basis that they used it and like they use it for like
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very like little things like I'm trying to even think like like they have Well,
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I'm I'm watching the movies currently. Yeah. But like little spells like like
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they like they would do the one to like figure out like >> like to pull something to like if
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they're at the library and they're like looking for a specific book, they would
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like have a spell and they'd do it and it would come to them. as opposed to >> Right. Exactly. It was like cheat codes
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to life as opposed to like Lord of the Rings like magic does get used but it tends to be in like this much bigger
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grander scheme and same with like Chronicles of Narnia. Like it's very like it's kind of this like big grand
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scheme picture of magic. And I So I think that might have something to do with >> maybe why our parents were not okay with
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it. >> It it could be. I know. I know. For me personally, my my parents early on
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realized that I would get nightmares a lot if we watched something that had any sort of element of scary to it. Um,
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which again wasn't much. I'm trying to think of like this will out me really
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hard, but there is this they noticed that I got pretty severe nightmares when I watched this certain Sesame Street
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episode, which uh yeah, Sesame Street. You hear that and you think nightmares? How? But
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it was uh about the boy who cried wolf and whoever created the wolf puppet just it still terrifies me to this day.
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Anyways, I would get nightmares whenever we would watch that specific episode. I
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think Dennis Quaid is in it. It uh this just unlocked like a whole memory. But uh yeah, Dennis Quaid is in it and the
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wolf puppet was just very scary. Big wide eyes like and I would leave the room every time we would watch that. Um,
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and I started getting nightmares. And so I think my parents started realizing like, oh, um, nightmares,
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she'll get nightmares if we show her anything scary. Not that they had plans
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to show us scary movies ever because they don't like scary movies themselves,
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but uh, I think that they were just very careful about all the content that we watched. And the thing with Harry
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Potter, what I the sense that I got from them was that yes, it's good versus
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evil, but there's a lot of evil in those books and movies. And there's a lot of
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magic, like you said. Um, the kids are very pnicity and will use their spells to do things that I'm sure they didn't
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want us to feel inspired to do. Uh, you know, sneak around and and use the cheat
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codes essentially. I mean, unfortunately, we don't have spells, which would be awesome, but uh in real
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life, you know, applying that to our real lives, but Chronicles of Narnia, I'm I'm not I I hate to say this in
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front of all the homeschoolers watching, but I'm not as familiar with Lord of the
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Rings as I think a lot of other people are. >> We didn't watch the movies growing up.
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We read the books. My mom would read the books out loud to us, and I enjoyed them, but we were really big Chronicles
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of Narnia fans. Um, my parents are huge fans of CS Lewis. And when I compare Chronicles of Narnia and Harry Potter to
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me now, they're not they're not super different. There's a lot of magic.
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There's a lot of good versus evil. Uh, but there's there's a ton of magic and
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bad guys and like you said, witches and wizards and Chronicles of Narnia. I just
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think that because Chronicles of Narnia was based on a biblical story that there
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was more incentive for us to enjoy that versus Harry Potter. >> Yeah. I mean, you're talking about like
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Lord of the Rings, obviously very like lot of biblical references in there. Same with Chronicles of Narnia. I mean,
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CS Lewis, Gerald Tolken, historically big Christians. >> Yeah. >> Wrote stuff. Had a lot to say about
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Christianity. Like, so yeah. I mean, I get it. I get it from that perspective. I'm with you that like now like I read
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the books or I watch the movies of like Chronicles of Narnia versus Harry Potter
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and I'm like these are kind of the same thing. Like they're it's you know it's a
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little different. I think for me now having asked my parents about Harry Potter,
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their response to me has more now to do with they're like, "Well, so and so told
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us this and we trusted them and so we didn't do it. they didn't let you watch
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that or consume that. >> And what's funny is now both of them have read the books or some of the books
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and they've watched the movies and they're like, "This is one of the
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greatest stories ever." Like, it's they're like, "We love it. It's
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fantastic. It's so much fun." So, have you have you gotten your parents to
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dabble in Harry Potter? >> That's a good question. And I don't think so. I don't think they've read it.
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I don't even know if they've watched it. And this might have to be uh a part
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three episode where my parents uh give me their honest review of Harry Potter. But um no, I to be honest with you, I I
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don't think they have. Um I have, you know, as an adult read the books. I just
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recently, I think last Christmas, did a whole binge of all the movies. Um it was
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a lot. It was a long long binge, but um they're fun books. They're great. It's a
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great story. Um, there's action, there's adventure, there's romance, there's, you
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know, good versus evil. It it's it's great. And, you know, I am sad that I
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missed, you know, in its prime when Harry Potter was coming out and everybody was stoked to read the books.
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Um, because it's just it's a really magical story and I I loved it. Um, and
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so I I think my parents would like it, too. I mean, they really enjoy obviously they my dad's a huge fan of CS Lewis.
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Um, I have read some of CS Lewis's books and they are really good. He's a
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fantastic author and um, I I still love Chronicles of Narnia. I still wish they would make more
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movies. Uh, >> still hoping for, you know, >> the uh, Silver, my personal favorite
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book. And yeah, it's a great story. I think they could Hollywood could do some
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really fun things with Yeah. >> with that story. So >> I think too um
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you CS Lewis one of because a lot of people if you read the books now like we're adults we're like almost in our
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30s at this point like we like those books are they're very kitty books and like they as opposed to if you read
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Harry Potter through it's interesting because they kind of age up as you >> they do
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>> grow up with it right like you read the first book and you're like okay this is
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a kids book by the time you get to the end you're like okay this is pretty >> it's heavy it's It's written a lot
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different. It's darker. All that kind of thing. >> CS Lewis has another book series called
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It's I think it's just referred to as the Space Trilogy, and I'm blanking on
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the names of it right now, but it is it's sci-fi related. >> It Yes, we read those. God, of course,
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I'm blanking on the name as well. >> Um, it's all sci-fi in in space, I
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think. Right. >> Yeah. But it's like the story. What's interesting is the parallel in that one
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is a lot more like Garden of Eden early >> early Bible kind of a thing. But they're
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really cool stories. So even if you're not religious, like super interesting
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stories, very sci-fi, like I love sci-fi is my thing. Planet of the Apes, Star Wars, all Star Trek, like all that
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stuff. I love that stuff. So >> I'm still holding out hope that someday
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those get made into a movie. Um cuz I just think they would be really cool. And the stories are a lot more I think
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they're more mature than Chronicles of Narnia. >> Yeah. >> Again, still love that. I was also gonna
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bring up Did you ever read the Percy Jackson books? >> I didn't, but my little sister Ellia did
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>> and she was the biggest fan of those books. That and The Maze Runner. Um, I
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was more into the dystopian. Not that Percy Jackson. Well, no, Percy Jackson isn't dystopian at all. I was
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more into the like Hunger Games, Divergent. >> Um, those when those were coming out, I
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was a big fan. But Percy Jackson was my little sister's thing. She wore the what
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was it the what's the camp called that they go to? She would wear the camp shirts to like homechool classes,
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>> half blood camp or something like that. >> Yes. Half Blood. She was always making
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references to them. She I think she still has a special place in her heart for that that series because I I I never
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read it and I I' I've heard they're good. I should add that to my reading
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list. >> They're they're fantastic. If you like Greek mythology, like I loved Greek
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mythology and I think it's hilarious that my mom even really kind of let me read Greek mythology. Um I think she
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just kind of was under the impression she's like, "Well, Jacob knows this
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isn't like like a religion kind of a thing." Um, and then as I got older, I
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was like, "Oh, people like actually worshiped these gods and stuff." So
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anyway, but I loved Percy Jackson because I loved Greek mythology. I had a whole like
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>> encyclopedia set basically of Greek mythology stories. Um, and then uh yeah,
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and then Percy Jackson just like expanded on that and I was like, "Oh yeah, this is like fantastic." It's like
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what if the kids of all of these gods like had superpowers in the real world? Like it's a fantastic story.
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>> It's a great idea. It reminds me of like how kids are now feeling about
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Descendants. I don't know if you've heard of that, but like they're the kids
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of the Disney villains, I believe. >> Oh, and a lot of younger kids that I've
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um that I know or like my boyfriend's uh sisters, what are they called? My boyfriend's
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nieces and nephews. Um really like it uh descendants. And so I that kind of reminded me of what you said about Percy
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Jackson. It's just just a creative story and a cool way to educate you about
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Greek mythology, but also in a way that is fun and adventurous and that kids will understand. I think the other
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element that maybe our parents missed out on too, like this was something that when I got older, my dad did better at
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was like if there were books that he that my parents were like h kind of on the fence about like letting us read or
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movies even sometimes like he would watch or listen or read the book before me and then or with me and then we could
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talk about it >> and um yeah, like that's how that's why I read the Da Vinci Code and when I had
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him on the show we talked about that. But it was cool because that book was very controversial when we were kids cuz
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people thought it was against the Bible when in reality it's just like a fiction
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book. Really cool. Very um uh National Treasureesque to it. So, you know, if you like National Treasure,
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>> I love National Treasure. Those movies, I don't care what anyone says. Uh those
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movies are top tier and I still like will watch them to this day. Uh, but what you said about Da Vinci Code, like
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not that my parents necessarily told me this, I just kind of gathered this information on my own based on going to
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church and hearing what other people said about the Da Vinci Code. It in my brain still that's a no no book that or
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no movie or or you know, and it's so funny that you said that because I still
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have that notion of like nope, you're not allowed to read that book. You're
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not allowed to watch that movie. And I don't know anything about what it's
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about. what you just described sounds like something I would probably really enjoy, but just growing up hearing that
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that, you know, this is this is not an accurate depiction of what we believe or this is going against the Bible like you
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said. And so in my head it's like, all right, we're not even going to touch it.
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Or now as an adult, I'm like, "Oh, >> I could if it's National Treasureesque,
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I'd be down to read that." You know, >> that whole series, he has a whole
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series. I mean, there's Angels and Demons, there's uh Da Vinci Code, there's um The Lost Symbol, Inferno,
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and they're all very they I read The Lost Symbol first. That's the third book in the series. And
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um >> that one is very National Treasure coded. Like it is, but like I mean
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you're reading about the Freemasons and you're reading about all of this history
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about like US and and obviously it's fiction so some of it is a little blown
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out of proportion but like it's very you're like I'm I'm reading Nick Cage
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like go and steal the Declaration of Independence basically. And uh and so I read that book first and I was like I'm
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hooked. And then I realized oh the Da Vinci Code is the same character but just totally different circumstances.
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And it's I would argue it's just as good. I didn't know that about that
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book. Again, like I hear the title and my brain just goes off as like, nope. So,
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>> I still have that, too. There's other books that I'm like, you know, be at a
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bookstore or whatever and I'm like, oh yeah, no, I know that that author's bad.
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Move on next one, you know, kind of a thing. And I'm like, it it's been interesting kind of like
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>> break out of that now and be like, no, I should just like read this. You know,
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>> what's it going to who's it going to hurt? >> It's so true. It's like you you may read
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it and it may be, you know, depending on the genre of the book. Like I know if I
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read a super scary book, I will still as an adult get nightmares. So, I'm just
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not going to, you know, that part of me is still the same regardless. My parents
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were very right in noticing that early on is that, you know, nightmares were a big thing uh for me. I I remember us one
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time when we were kids going over to our neighbor's house and they were watching
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Jumanji the movie uh which was a movie we were not allowed to watch and I didn't know anything about it and so I
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was like all right I'll watch it like whatever. Um, and that movie, I mean, for a kid is pretty scary. And we came
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back home and my mom was very disappointed in us. And we were we were in trouble for watching that movie. And
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I I didn't understand why cuz I I was just like, it was fine. Like I I liked
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it. Well, that night I had pretty bad nightmares that I think were involving turning into a monkey and giant
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alligators, you know, everything that happens in that movie. And you know, I I just remember thinking kind of like, oh,
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>> there is she does have a reason for some things or some rules that she sets.
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>> She knew that that movie was going to give me nightmares. I don't know if
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she's ever seen Jamanji herself, but she knew that that, you know, she probably
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read reviews on that movie and realized that it was a little bit too intense for
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someone of my age. And and that's just my experience. You know, I I had friends
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growing up who were allowed to watch every scary movie and every R-rated movie because that's what their parents
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watched. And that's I mean, my boyfriend, that's what he grew up in. He was seeing, you know, really scary um
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sci-fi, every genre of movie when he was very young. >> And that's just what he knew, what he
00:19:00
grew up with. I was very different. I I do another memory that I wanted to share
00:19:05
that I thought was funny was, you know, our our parents did their best in homeschooling. I can't imagine that it
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was easy at any point. Uh and so they were just taking it day by day, but I remember my mom bringing home a movie
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from the library and we were learning about um World War II at the time. We were learning about the Holocaust and
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she brought home a movie from the library. I can't remember what it was called now, but I remember as a kid just
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having this gut feeling that I shouldn't watch it. And I remember telling her and
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being like, "No, that I just don't think we should watch this." And she was like,
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"Well, it's a I think it was a fiction movie. Like it obviously about the
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Holocaust, but not about actual an actual person during the Holocaust." And
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so we watched it and that movie gave me the most intense nightmares because of one specific scene in the movie, you
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know, depicting someone committing suicide, you know, in order to not go to the camps. And I just remember her
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having this realization and us talking about the movie after where she was like, "Okay, I didn't think, you know, I
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thought this was an educational movie. I didn't think that that was going to be
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giving you nightmares, but I should have listened to >> that intuition where I knew I knew in my
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head. I knew in, you know, my soul, whatever. Like, >> that's not let's not watch that. And I
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still to this day can picture that vivid image from the movie. And I have not watched that movie again. Um because
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that one scene just gave me nightmares for a long time. And so, >> yeah, >> that helps me respect my parents and
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their choices where, you know, now as an adult, sure, there's a lot of things
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that I'm making up seeing like, you know, all the movies that my friends watched growing up, I've never seen. So,
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I'm I'm watching Twilight. I'm watching Harry Potter now. You know, I'm watching
00:21:00
all the movies that we weren't allowed to. Um, but it just it helps me respect my
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parents in that sense that, you know, they were doing the best they could. they tried to have some sort of, you
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know, impact or or influence on the media we were consuming. And I just remember my mom
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saying one time like, you know, you can always close your eyes because once you see something that kind of lives in your
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brain and I never used to really believe that. And there are now I'm still seeing
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I still see that scene and it still frightens me. I still that Sesame Street episode. I'll watch it. I I won't watch
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it now. That's just weird. But like if it were to come up, I would probably not
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want to watch the scene with the wolf because as a kid that traumatized me. So I do respect my parents in that sense of
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I see the reasons why we were sheltered. I don't really understand why Harry
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Potter was forbidden, but at the end of the day, they had their reasons. I mean,
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my parents, same kind of deal. They made they made choices based off of the information they had, and they, you
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know, were like, "This is a yes, no for my kid." I think what's interesting when
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you talked about kind of being like I don't want to watch this movie and kind
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of I'm not going to say your mom forced you to watch it but like kind of pushed
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to watch it a little bit more >> like this will be fine I don't see your
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problem. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Having somebody Yeah. kind of be like it's okay like
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don't worry like it's not going to be that bad. Um, I think that that's kind
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of an interesting thing because I've realized this is my own therapy coming out, but
00:22:31
like I there was a lot of times where maybe I wanted to put a boundary in place to be like I don't want to do this
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thing or I don't want to be around this person or whatever and and that kind of
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getting pushed to the side. And so I think that's something that's I'm I'm
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learning now where it's like now I am able to make those decisions for myself
00:22:50
where I'm like I don't want to watch this or I don't want to read that book
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or whatever. And like that's okay. Like >> even if everyone else is like this is a
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fantastic thing. You should really enjoy it. You're going to enjoy it. Like it's
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going to be so much fun. I don't want to. And my my my inner gut is telling me
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no for a reason. Like I'm just going to listen and like actually just like you
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know if I miss out on something great. Okay whatever. or like I missed out on something great, but I don't know. I
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would rather listen to my my body telling me no than be traumatized, right? Um >> I feel that way about the most a movie
00:23:23
that just recent not just recently, within the last several years came out. I can't remember the name off the top of
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my head, but it was very very popular for being quite uh over-the-top, scandalous. Certain scenes in that movie
00:23:36
you never see in movies before. Of course, I'm going to blank. Um, it has the the one of the leads is Barry
00:23:44
Kyogan. Sabrina Carpenters. >> Oh, are you thinking of um >> what's it called?
00:23:48
>> Oh, shoot. Um, >> but there's some pretty uh gross >> salt burn.
00:23:53
>> Salt Burn. Thank you. Yeah, I have not seen Saltburn and I know I'm not going
00:23:57
to watch it because that's some scenes that I don't have any interest in
00:24:01
seeing. Not that anyone watches it with an interest, but uh yeah, I just know that that's not
00:24:08
not going to need to live in my brain. I don't need to see it. >> And hey, that's a good I mean, that's a
00:24:13
good intuition to have. I watched it probably against my own intuition, and >> there's definitely some things in that
00:24:20
movie that I'm like, okay, that was that was a lot. But >> yeah, >> you also talked about um the the
00:24:26
nightmares and I and I it made me think of um I used to so Dary Brooks and I and and my good friend
00:24:37
Ben, we used to we do would sleepovers at Derry's house and we would stay up
00:24:41
all night watching movies. And he had there's two elements to the story. So,
00:24:45
so he had uh a DVD player that was like a Christian DVD player and you could download movies.
00:24:53
>> Yes. >> Or I'm sorry, you could download these like files from the internet and then
00:24:57
when you would watch a movie, it would skip certain scenes. >> Yeah. It was pretty amazing technology
00:25:03
at the time. You could put a DVD in and it knew what to cut out. It was It was pretty
00:25:08
amazing. I remember those. >> Yeah. So, it was cool because I got to watch a bunch of like R-rated movies and
00:25:12
we just take out like the sex scene, especially when we were in high school. Our parents were like, "You guys like
00:25:16
war stuff. We don't really care if you want to watch a bunch of war stuff. We
00:25:19
just don't want the cuss scene and we don't want uh any sex scenes. So, we
00:25:22
just take all that stuff out." >> But uh but one of the nights we spent
00:25:26
over, I watched Jurassic Park for the first time. And it was another movie that I had not been shown by my parents
00:25:34
because either because they were lazy or because they maybe they didn't like it as much
00:25:41
or I don't really think it had like I know some people don't watch it because
00:25:45
like oh well it had evolution and and you know also there's a bunch of Christians who don't believe dinosaurs
00:25:50
ever existed to begin with that kind of a thing. Anyway, so we watched it and then spent the night and I had
00:25:56
nightmares all night about dinosaurs and I could not sleep. >> I was a scary movie.
00:26:02
>> I was 15 years old having nightmares about dinosaurs. Like that's embarrassing.
00:26:07
>> No, it's not. I would have done the same thing. If I watched that movie at that
00:26:10
age, I absolutely would have had nightmares. Like I watch it now and I still jump at, you know, that movie
00:26:17
still holds up to this day. Like >> Yeah, >> it's scary. >> It is. Yeah. Um, I was gonna ask you
00:26:24
because so my parents used Focus on the Family had this thing called Plugged In back in the day. I think it still exists
00:26:30
today. >> Plugged in online. I think it still exists. I'm Yeah, I think it it does.
00:26:36
>> I did your parents use that or did you use that? they used it and then um
00:26:42
actually after they probably don't even know this but when I would I I still I
00:26:49
mean I think anybody feels uncomfortable watching a movie with sex scenes with anybody else that's not you know even
00:26:56
with your significant other I I suppose it's just kind of awkward you know >> and uh and so after like once I started
00:27:04
getting older and hanging out with friends and you know if I would go see a movie with a friend of mine in the
00:27:10
theater. I think this is also just me liking to know what I'm about to get myself into. If it was going to be a
00:27:16
movie that's going to be rated R, I was going to look it up and plugged in just
00:27:20
to see like, okay, what parts am I going to have to like see or what am I going to have to see and is it it is it going
00:27:28
to be tolerable or is this going to make me super uncomfortable and I'm not going
00:27:31
to want to watch it? Like I I did that when I would go um like on dates with people. Uh, I would just make sure that
00:27:39
we're not about to just on a first date watch a movie with, you know, a 3 minute
00:27:43
long sex scene that was just going to make us both want to die inside, you know. So, I I've definitely used it. I
00:27:50
know my parents for sure used it as well. Um, I would love to to see it as an adult at the age that I am now to see
00:27:59
because I'm sure these reviews I I'm not even I'm sure the these reviews were
00:28:04
Christianbased and so they were written from a Christian perspective. Um, so they weren't just going to tell you, you
00:28:11
know, what sex things you're going to see, what violence things you're going
00:28:14
to see, what words you're going to hear. They're going to give it to you from a
00:28:17
Christian perspective as well. Um, so yeah, my parents definitely, we didn't
00:28:22
have the DVD player that cut things out, but we they definitely utilize plugged in online. That was a we, I mean, we
00:28:27
loved Focus on the Family just as a company growing up. We listen to Adventures and Odyssey and everything.
00:28:33
So, it was it was a cool resource at the time. I'm sure it's probably helpful now
00:28:36
as well if it's you still utilized, you know, for young kids. >> No, I used to So, if people don't know
00:28:43
what it is, basically, it's online movie review. They would do a synopsis of the
00:28:47
movie and then they would list out all of the different kind of elements. So like curse words, it would tell you if
00:28:54
there was f-words in it, how many uh if there was sex scenes in it, if there was
00:28:58
violence in it. And they did this for I believe movies and video games was kind of the big ones. And maybe they got into
00:29:03
TV later. But I remember as a kid, well, and I remember as a kid even like if I wanted to go see a movie, a lot of times
00:29:10
I would look it up on Plugged In, read it, and so I even knew, is it worth me asking my parents if I can go see this
00:29:17
movie because I knew the automatic this is going to be a no. >> And so then I would just kind of know.
00:29:22
And um I'm thankful I had parents who they always let me blame them for stuff.
00:29:27
So, like I So, like if my friends were like, "Oh, we're going to go see like I
00:29:30
wasn't allowed to see Pirates of the Caribbean, >> but they would let me be like, um, oh
00:29:36
yeah, my my parents aren't going to let me see that or whatever." And even if my
00:29:38
friends were like, "Well, why aren't your parents going to you should like
00:29:40
beg them?" And I'd be like, "Oh, no. They like I could just always put it on
00:29:44
them." And even if it was stuff I just didn't want to go do, you know, they let
00:29:48
me kind of put it on them and be like, "Oh, no, like my parents said I can't or
00:29:52
you know, whatever." Yeah. Um, but yeah, Plugged In was Plugged In was cool. I
00:29:57
think it would be cool even today because yeah, sometimes you go to the movies and you're you to your point, I
00:30:02
kind of want to know what I'm getting into before getting into it. >> To me, it's the same thing as a
00:30:07
restaurant. If I'm going to a new restaurant I've never seen, I'm absolutely looking at the menu ahead of
00:30:12
time and I know what I'm going to get myself into and I know immediately if I'm going to like this restaurant or not
00:30:16
based on what they have. It's the same thing with movies. I'm not going to read
00:30:19
spoilers, obviously, but I I mean, when you're sitting in a movie theater with a
00:30:24
bunch of people, I'm I'm sorry. I don't feel like watching a super long sex
00:30:29
scene or, you know, a bunch of crazy violence that, you know, I don't know, it's just awkward. Like, we're in
00:30:35
public. We can watch this at home if we really want to watch it. And I mean, it is sad with movie theaters now nowadays
00:30:41
in modern times clearly uh um on their way out. Hopefully not, but it seems to be going that way. But, uh, yeah. Yeah.
00:30:50
I I just the idea of watching on a big screen a bunch of just uncomfortable things that I would absolutely look at
00:30:57
Plugged In and be like, "All right, what am I getting myself into?" >> You brought up uh being like a fan of
00:31:02
like The Hunger Games and Divergent and stuff. And I I was thinking about I went
00:31:07
and saw the second Hunger Games movie in the theater with youth leaders. And that
00:31:13
in that movie there is a scene where one of the um tributes like gets undressed in the elevator
00:31:20
>> and you don't see anything um but it's very heavily implied that like you know
00:31:25
what's going on kind of a thing >> and um I remember sitting there with
00:31:30
these youth leaders and being like I don't know what to do. Like I was like I
00:31:34
don't know if I should look away. I don't know if I should like look down
00:31:38
like look at them. Like are they watching me? Like that's how I felt too. I was like, "Are they staring at me?"
00:31:43
Because they're like, "Oh, like is Jacob consuming this content?" >> Um, and then also I'm like sitting there
00:31:48
going like, "Would my parents be okay with me watching this?" Like, >> yeah, just freaking out. Like, yeah, cuz
00:31:54
I mean, yeah, Hunger Games, I think that that and like >> I know in the Hunger Games, the second
00:32:00
one, there's a scene, at least in the book, where Finnick, one of the tributes, he's very flirtatious, and I'm
00:32:06
pretty sure he's like supposed to be naked or really close to naked. and that
00:32:10
reading that I remember being like, "Oh my god, am I going to have to see this
00:32:14
like in a theater because I really want to watch this movie, but I don't want to
00:32:17
watch that, you know, and I but I don't remember if that ended up translating in
00:32:21
the movie or not." But I do remember that scene in the elevator where she just that's just her character. just
00:32:27
strips down and you're like >> as a kid watching that um you know so >> I wanted to ask you too because you also
00:32:36
brought up now kind of going back and re-watching stuff or watching things you weren't allowed to watch and you said
00:32:42
Twilight and I'm married to a huge Twilight nerd and I'm not going to say
00:32:48
she's a she's not a nerd she's a fan she's a big Twilight fan but what I've
00:32:53
learned about those books that I think is so funny is Like I do do you remember everyone kind of being like they're
00:33:00
super like horny, scandalous, like love story type thing? Like do you remember that kind of being the narrative around
00:33:08
those? >> Yeah, they have a very scandalous tone to them. But uh I remember growing up,
00:33:15
my best friend growing up, she had uh Twilight Calendar because she was a huge fan of Twilight. And I think one time
00:33:24
someone in our mine group, which everyone knows we were in mine, that's that's we'll just leave it at that. Uh
00:33:30
but uh someone came over and noticed that she had that calendar and called her out on it and was like, "You have a
00:33:36
Twilight calendar? That's like really bad." And so every time she would have
00:33:40
events at her house, she she would take it down and hide it because she loved Twilight. She was allowed to watch it.
00:33:47
But that was the consensus from the whole homeschool community is that it was very scandalous. It was not okay. It
00:33:53
was it was just a bad series. And >> what I think is hilarious too is that
00:33:58
the author is Mormon and it has very Mormon undertones and Mormonism is very purity culture.
00:34:07
Save yourself to marriage. >> Like that's a big part of their religion
00:34:11
as well. And so like that comes across in the movies and in the books honestly to some degree like and I always just
00:34:20
thought that was really interesting that like >> we were so against this thing or being
00:34:25
told we were like so against this thing that kind of was okay in some regards like I don't know
00:34:33
like >> it did it was also fantasy which some people just in general didn't love but I
00:34:39
don't know it's just funny to me that I'm like now I watch And I'm like, this
00:34:42
is so tame. >> It's really tame and it's very cringe. It It's really funny to watch it now
00:34:50
because and that's the that's the unfortunate thing about not seeing these
00:34:53
movies when you're young. When you're young and obviously, you know, as years
00:34:57
progress, cinema progresses, CGI progresses. Obviously, comparing movies now to, you
00:35:04
know, when you were a kid is it's crazy how much they've moved forward just with
00:35:09
everything. But yeah, watching the Twilight movies now is like it's hard to get through if I'm being honest. like
00:35:15
and I I was never like I I kind of avoided the whole the timing when it was a huge thing like everyone was team
00:35:22
Jacob or team um Edward and I was like I don't know vampires are scary you know
00:35:28
and so now watching it it's like yeah okay >> I have no you know but that's just cuz I
00:35:34
didn't grow up with it so >> so okay so we talked a little bit about >> I mean we talked a lot I guess about
00:35:41
like the stuff we kind of weren't allowed to watch but like what were we allowed to watch. Obviously, Chronicles
00:35:46
of Narnia was like a big one. You mentioned Focus on the Family, Adventures and Odyssey was like huge at
00:35:51
my house as well. Like we listen every week on the radio. >> We did. >> We have a bunch of the CDs and
00:35:56
cassettes. Like that was >> I would I would argue that's like peak Christian media.
00:36:03
>> 100%. Oh my gosh. Like I bet if I listen to those cassettes now, I don't know how
00:36:09
I would do that, but if I if I had an opportunity to listen to those cassette cassettes, I would remember the audio
00:36:14
bits, I would remember my favorite episodes. Like those were so fun because it was like a book on tape, but they had
00:36:22
such talented voice actors and stories that it was like watching a movie, but you're not. You're just sitting there
00:36:31
listening to your boom box. It was so cool. like you could vividly I vividly imagined, you know, all of these stories
00:36:38
and all of these things taking place and it was it was just so fun. >> Yeah. You could like see who these
00:36:43
characters were, which was really cool. I mean, I think that's also what kind of
00:36:46
made us into like theater and stuff too was just the fact that like I mean that's what
00:36:53
that was. It's just radio theater and um yeah, I got to go I'm so fortunate. So,
00:36:59
Focus on the Family, their headquarters is in Colorado and Okay. They have at their headquarters, they built uh a Wits
00:37:06
End from Really from Adventures in Odyssey. Yeah. So, you can go get a milkshake and like hang out. Um and it
00:37:13
was cool. I remember it being like it's been a long time. I'm I >> I don't know what it looks like now, but
00:37:18
they have this gigantic It's not even giant. It's just a section of the the
00:37:23
place and then they have like a gigantic slide kind of like in the show and it it's just cool. It was a fun It's a fun
00:37:29
memory. >> Well, and I I always thought it was funny because I would imagine what these
00:37:33
characters looks like and I remember cuz we only I think we listened to it on the
00:37:37
radio and had the cassettes. We didn't once they started getting bigger, they
00:37:41
started providing like artwork of what the characters actually looked like. >> And I remember being like, "That's not
00:37:47
my wit. That's not Connie. I don't know who that is." But it was totally
00:37:51
different. Connie, I think her name was. It was totally different how I imagined
00:37:54
they looked. And then when they released drawings of them, I remember being like,
00:37:57
"No, that when I hear it, they they look completely different." >> Yeah. No, 100%. No. I'm like, "Uh, this
00:38:05
is not Yeah. I think that's true for like a lot of things, though. Like, you
00:38:09
read a book and then you see it like It's very rare, I feel like, that you find something where you're just like,
00:38:15
"Oh, they nailed whoever like your version of what that person looks like."
00:38:20
Um, >> yeah. I um you've had so many cool like experience like the fact that you got to
00:38:27
go to Wits End. Also, another thing I remember you did that I was super jealous of is my favorite band growing
00:38:32
up was Pure Energy and I don't know the real like homeschooled Christians would
00:38:36
probably know who they are. They do not exist anymore. They haven't existed for
00:38:40
a long time, but they were a really cool band. Christian pop like EDM. I don't
00:38:46
know if I classified it as EDM, but it was these three kids, two girls and a guy, and they just they made such cool
00:38:53
music. And you got to see them in concert. And I remember just being like incredibly jealous.
00:38:59
>> Oh, yeah. No, that was it was interesting cuz I feel like I saw them. >> I was maybe a little too old to see
00:39:06
them. I was kind of out of that era of of myself, but it was it was cool. And they were very much like um Jump Five is
00:39:15
another band that a lot of they were Jump Five was their mentors and so they were a little bit Jump Five was more
00:39:21
mainstream than I think Pure Energy was. But Pure Energy and it's not energy the
00:39:26
word. It's NRG. >> Yeah. >> And um they were cool. I mean back flips
00:39:34
on stage. They were doing back flips before Benson Boon was doing back flips, you know, like they
00:39:39
>> It's so true. It's so true. They worked their asses off. Like they they were not only
00:39:46
talented singers, they were triple threats. Like they the back flips. They're they had the Britney like
00:39:52
microphones. They were they were cool. I wanted to meet them so bad. >> You know what's so funny too is like so
00:39:58
the reason I saw them was because the church I went to my my grandparents VBS at their church, their vacation bible
00:40:05
school during the summer. And I was I'm the reason I I say I was probably too
00:40:10
old was because I was too old to go to vacation bible school. So I must have been like high school maybe like a
00:40:16
freshman or something. Um and so I was so I worked at the vacation bible school and then but this church was insane. It
00:40:25
was like one of those mega churches. So they built an entire their their theme was
00:40:30
>> um what was the theme? It was I think it was fairy tales. And so they built a
00:40:36
giant castle and they put in the zipline. Yeah. It was like the Tik Tok churches where you're like insane. They
00:40:43
put a zipline from the back of the church to the stage and they had different days. So they had Tinker Bell
00:40:48
come in one day and they had Aladdin come in on a magic carpet and they had somebody else do something. It was
00:40:53
insane. Like and they had princess princes and princesses walking around at all times like full glam, full just like
00:41:01
insanity. Um, and yeah, and then they did like a Shrek thing at the end and they it was crazy and that but yeah,
00:41:10
Pure Energy was like the the like the big Friday thing. So they like had all the parents
00:41:17
come >> and do like the kids did their, you know, vacation Bible school like dances
00:41:23
that they learn or whatever and then they had Pure Energy come out and like actually do performance. It was crazy.
00:41:29
But yeah, to your point, very Britney Spears. They all had like the the headpiece mic that came around and
00:41:34
>> the choreography was elite. Oh god, >> it was something. Yeah, >> I I was just Yeah, I I wanted to be
00:41:42
them. They were so cool. Like every time we would record with my dad in his recording studio, I I tried to get it to
00:41:49
sound like they did. Um we we have so many audio files of me and my sisters covering their songs. We would sing them
00:41:58
at our Thanksgiving in the park events. Like we were obsessed. They were >> they were the best.
00:42:05
>> We haven't even touched on like music that we were and weren't allowed to
00:42:09
listen to because I'm sure that was kind of a reality as well. Like for a long
00:42:15
time I wasn't allowed to listen to really like rock and roll or like '8s
00:42:18
pop music or anything. Like it really wasn't until >> I started taking lessons at your dad's
00:42:23
studio and your dad was like, >> "You got to let Jacob listen to anything
00:42:27
and everything cuz like he needs to know like you got to let him listen to Santana and Eric Clapton and like all
00:42:33
this stuff cuz like that's the music he likes to play." >> Um, so I don't know. Was that was music
00:42:38
a thing in your house where there was like limits to it or or was your dad pretty like kind of whatever?
00:42:44
>> Well, we listened to a lot of music period. We were always listening to
00:42:48
something at the house and if we weren't listening to it, someone was singing
00:42:51
something. I mean, I come from a very musical family, so there was a lot of worship music mainly. Um, a lot of there
00:43:00
was a lot of classical music as well. Um, my mom really liked the classical radio station and I I still enjoy it
00:43:05
even, you know, now. Um, but there was definitely always songs playing. Um, I didn't really get uh into
00:43:14
much music on my own until a little bit later, but I remember getting a serial box and inside the serial box was a
00:43:23
Backstreet Boys CD because, you know, what better way to market your music than serial boxes.
00:43:31
>> And I just remember hearing larger than life uh for the first time and I loved
00:43:36
it and I was like, this song I didn't even know what they looked like. This was before I could look it up on the
00:43:41
internet. Like we we had a computer but it had AOL dialup and I just didn't know
00:43:48
how to Google something. I don't even know if that was a thing. But I just remember loving the Backstreet Boys and
00:43:55
I used to say then because I started hearing fellow as I got older I started hearing fellow friends of mine say you
00:44:02
know InSync or Backstreet Boys and I just would always say Backstreet Boys even though I knew one song and I only
00:44:09
liked one song. I'd never heard any of their other music but I was like Backstreet Boys all the way when I feel
00:44:16
like I would have been in sync if I had heard all their music. But I digress. Um, so we I didn't really get the sense
00:44:25
that there was inappropriate music until a little bit later, but we would be I remember we would be in the car
00:44:32
listening to Kihei um, country music and Josh Turner had a song that I'm sure
00:44:40
everybody knows, but it talks it's basically talking about how he is going to have a night having sex with his
00:44:46
lover, whatever, you know, and it's a for for our family hearing it. I didn't
00:44:51
really understand what the lyrics meant. I just I was like, "Wow, that guy has a
00:44:56
really deep voice." And every time that song would come on the radio, my mom
00:45:00
would say, "Okay, we're going to switch it. We're not going to listen to this
00:45:03
song." And or or she would make some sort of comment where I was like, "Oh, I
00:45:07
guess there must be something bad in this music." But I >> I didn't really understand what sex was
00:45:13
even at that time. So, >> I was like I But I knew that that was a naughty song or a bad song. um as a kid
00:45:21
and then yeah, you know, as as I grew up, I I got exposed to a lot more music and um
00:45:29
but there wasn't anything specifically that I remember being told you can't
00:45:34
listen to. Um my mom kind of rolled her eyes at the Backstreet Boys CD, but I was still allowed to listen to it. I had
00:45:41
a similar CD. So like when I was a kid, I remember getting a pair of sneakers at
00:45:46
Famous Footwear and for whatever reason they gave us a CD with it and it was all
00:45:52
songs that had to do with like shoes or like walking. So it was like Blue Suede Shoes by Elvis Presley.
00:45:58
>> Yeah. >> And um and but there was like walking on sunshine and there were all these I mean
00:46:04
a lot of them are older but there was a few newer ones. And then I was a big fan. I wasn't allowed to watch a lot of
00:46:11
Nickelodeon as a kid, but I but Jimmy Neutron was allowed in my house. And so I had the Jimmy Neutron movie CD and
00:46:18
that was all pop songs. So there was Insync, Britney Spears. >> Okay. >> Uh I I'm trying to even remember who
00:46:25
else, but I do. So for a long time, I would say my favorite was Britney Spears. I was like Britney Spears, my
00:46:31
girl. Like let's go. Um, yeah. >> I think we we knew like we knew who the
00:46:38
popular people were, but I would just say it just to sound cool. I didn't actually listen to their music because
00:46:44
>> music unless you had it on CD. Uh, you couldn't really get it digitally or at
00:46:50
least I didn't know a way how. Um, >> no. until, you know, we would always go
00:46:54
to Barnes & Noble and when they had like a CD and a DVD selection, you could go
00:46:59
up and you could put your headphones on, you could scan the CD and listen to it in store. So, we would do family trips
00:47:06
uh to Barnes & Noble to do that for hours and just listen to whatever CDs we
00:47:11
found. Um, but yeah, I I really stuck to what I liked, which was pure energy. Um,
00:47:18
there was this band called The Rubies, which was these three girls, and they made sort of the similar pop sound, also
00:47:24
Christian. Um, a lot of there was a lot of Christian music and and just worship music that I liked and I was just
00:47:32
surrounded by. So, I didn't really know any different. A lot of musicals, too.
00:47:35
Um, we listen to a lot of, you know, old-timey musicals and a lot of, you know, Frank Sinatra and all the oldies.
00:47:44
But, >> yeah. Um, I think I didn't really realize that, you know, music could have
00:47:50
bad lyrics. Like, it didn't really translate to me. I think I I'm so thankful I had somebody at my church
00:47:58
turned me on to Eric Clapton used to do or I think he still does, but he did a uh music festival every couple of years
00:48:06
called the Crossroads Music Festival and he would have all some of like some of the best like blues and jazz guitar
00:48:12
players, rock guitar like gods basically come and play at this thing >> and he that so shout out to Tom Ramette
00:48:22
cuz he put me onto this thing And um the first one I ever watched he uh he had John Mayer come on and I was like who is
00:48:31
this guy because he was amazing. And um and so then yeah and he was super cool. And so so I got I got gifted one of his
00:48:38
albums and then um I found one of them at like the thrift store or whatever. And your body is a Wonderland was like
00:48:45
the first song that I remember being like this seems like I shouldn't be listening to it. Um,
00:48:53
>> but it was such a beautiful song that you could now >> amazing song.
00:48:56
>> It's gorgeous. I love it. >> It's It's a great song. Um, and uh,
00:49:02
yeah. So, shout out to my parents for letting me listen to that >> over and over and over. Um, yeah. Um, it
00:49:10
wasn't my favorite song on the album, though. I'm trying to remember what my
00:49:12
favorite song was off that album. But um but that led to I mean John Mayer is my
00:49:17
favorite to this day and I I know he's a jerk but I've seen him in concert. He's
00:49:22
amazing. He's so talented. Like um anyway, but uh yeah. Well, and then when we were in high school, I feel like you
00:49:30
and I both got kind of obsessed with like the cover bands. It was like it was the era of YouTube where like cover
00:49:35
songs were like the thing. Like >> Yes. I forgot about this. Wow. >> Like Charlie Puth was a cover artist
00:49:42
before he was the Charlie P. we know him as today. >> When you think about it, we liked
00:49:47
Charlie Puth before he was cool. I mean, I was such a huge fan. I still have his
00:49:52
like first albums downloaded on like my old uh Apple devices like and I I'm never getting rid of that because you
00:49:59
can't find it anywhere now. But yeah, we liked Charlie Puth before. He was cool.
00:50:03
I remember we liked Alex Goot and um Kurt Schneider, I think it was. I can't
00:50:08
believe I remember all these names, but the YouTube cover era, that was big. And
00:50:12
I I remember I would I would also sing my own covers. That was just what you did. And Christina Grimmie, rest in
00:50:18
peace. She was amazing. I loved her. Um, yeah, there were so many. And we did during group solutions. I remember we
00:50:25
really bonded over over that. Well, I mean, I think that was also like kind of our exp for me that was a lot of my
00:50:31
exposure to a lot of pop music, too, because like my parents weren't going to
00:50:36
let me listen to Pitbull, but they would let me listen to a Pitbull melody that was like more instrumental, like more
00:50:43
like an acoustic version. >> Yeah. >> And um and so like that's how I learned
00:50:47
a bunch of like Kesha songs and yeah, Pitbull and just all these songs that I would have never known otherwise. Um,
00:50:55
and then as I got older and when I wanted to go into the music industry, >> it was that was I was like, "Oh, I know
00:51:01
this song already. I just don't know this version of that song." Um, >> I know. You almost miss the like cover
00:51:08
version cuz that's the original that you knew you liked it. >> Like, >> right. Exactly. Like Kurt Schneider
00:51:13
playing some pop song on like Coke bottles or something, you know? Like it was just like weird.
00:51:18
>> Way better. >> Any Yeah. Way better than than the original. I don't know. It's funny, too,
00:51:24
cuz like that's I don't know. My my like I said, my parents were like okay with
00:51:28
that, but then like and I I won't even say they weren't okay with pop music. I
00:51:34
think they were just kind of like, >> yeah, but you like all these other artists more,
00:51:39
>> so to speak. Like it was kind of like, oh, but you really like the news boys,
00:51:43
so like listen to the news boys, you know? Um it's like a redirect in a lot of ways.
00:51:48
>> Yeah. like, okay, well, you want to listen to this pop artist, but this
00:51:52
Christian pop artist does kind of the same thing. Why don't you listen to them? Yeah. Right. And that
00:51:57
>> Yeah, that that's definitely we were surrounded by a lot of that. And um just
00:52:03
Yeah. going to VBS and then Group Solutions and everything. It was just Yeah, we were very I was very surrounded
00:52:09
by Christian music. I almost didn't really know much about pop music until much later in life, I feel like. Then I
00:52:16
discovered everything and figured out who I like. And turns out I really love Pitbull.
00:52:22
>> I'm still so jealous that you like got tickets to go see him and went and saw
00:52:25
him. And >> that was so funny. >> Terry called me and I had just gotten to
00:52:29
college and was like, hey, do you want to go see Pitbull? And I was like I just got off a [ __ ] plane. Like I was
00:52:34
like, I'm not in California anymore. I was so mad. >> So it was so random. I won them on the
00:52:40
radio and I knew I liked Pitull, but I think that cover that that concert opened my eyes because I
00:52:48
I and this was before like I knew how to do makeup. I didn't really care about
00:52:52
dressing well at all. And so I was like, I want to be comfortable. I'm going to
00:52:57
go to the Staple Center in my, you know, my hoodie and my sweatpants and no makeup and I had bright pink hair. So I
00:53:02
looked really out of place for someone at a pit bull concert. and I knew all of the words and I was rapping everything
00:53:08
and I had such a blast and I would I still want to go see him in concert again cuz I just I'm such a fan of of
00:53:16
him and his music and it's Yeah, that was that's right though. I forgot I
00:53:20
asked you and you were at college. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I was like sitting in my
00:53:25
dorm room. I was just sad all by myself. But it's okay. It's okay. It'll happen
00:53:30
someday. Someday we'll we'll make it happen. But >> no, that's
00:53:36
I just Yeah, it's you know what's funny too is like I have now gotten my parents
00:53:42
into more op music I guess but like I don't feel like it's like a it was like that hard
00:53:49
because like when I talk to them I'm like my dad really liked you too when he
00:53:53
was in college which like even though they kind of border on a Christian band they're they're a rock band you know
00:53:59
like my mom was like Madonna and like >> they they liked '8s music. They liked
00:54:03
the pop culture '8s music. And so it's funny cuz now I can show them pop music
00:54:08
of today. And there's a good amount that they're like, "This is really fun. This
00:54:11
is a great, you know, a great song." And they're like, "Yeah." And then and then
00:54:15
I find out like they're actually like listening to it or they bought it like,
00:54:19
>> you know, >> like, "Oh, so you are hearing what I suggest." Well, yeah.
00:54:22
>> And I noticed too a lot of songs like if I happen to show my parents or or some I
00:54:28
mean that's one thing I love about my dad. He's always open to new music. And
00:54:31
so sometimes when we go to the studio, even now, he'll say, "Oh, just just play
00:54:35
for me what you've been listening to lately." And so I'll be like, "Okay, you
00:54:38
sure you're going to like it?" And >> he still listens to it and we can chat
00:54:42
about it and discuss it and >> and but it's so cool to see how they so
00:54:47
many songs are covered now, but also so many melodies or bits from songs are taken from older songs and they'll be
00:54:56
able to catch it. They'll be like, "Oh, that's not the original." and they know
00:54:59
the original from like forever ago. And so that's kind of fun, too, is you know,
00:55:03
you'd be like, "Oh, this pop song's really great." And then you hear, "Oh,
00:55:06
wait, that's not the original song." Most likely not. >> Yeah. No, I was I was super happy for a
00:55:13
while. My dad and I would do this thing where we would send each other uh an album and be like, "Hey, listen to this
00:55:18
and then let's like talk about it." And so I had sent him >> I made him listen to Chance the Rapper,
00:55:23
which I thought was pretty big, but also like >> not that hard. I mean, Chance is
00:55:28
>> Yeah. >> Christian guy. So, I was like, "Okay, you'll like this." And then
00:55:32
>> it was at the time when before before we knew that I mean, we knew that Kanye was
00:55:36
crazy, but it was before Kanye really went off the deep end. And I sent him a Kanye album and had him listen to that.
00:55:41
And it was cool. We got to like have a great conversation about it and like what did you like? What did you not
00:55:45
like? And like my dad's biggest thing is always like I don't the speed of rap is
00:55:50
too much for him. He's like, I can't get there with it. Which is understandable
00:55:55
um >> for a lot of people, but it's I mean, but it's fun because then like he would
00:56:00
send me an album and I'd be like, okay, well, I like these things about it, but
00:56:03
I don't, you know, but this sounds like everything else, you know? So, it's it
00:56:07
was cool. It's just fun to like have that conversation with somebody. I'm
00:56:10
like, >> what? Like, like you're saying, like with your dad, like show them like this
00:56:14
is what I'm listening to. What are you listening to? What are you into? You know, it's fun. It's fun to have those
00:56:19
combos. It's really cool. I One thing I know like my dad showed me this band
00:56:25
called Dirty Loops. I don't know. You must have heard of them. Maybe not. >> I love Dirty Loops. Yeah,
00:56:30
>> they're so great. They're And my dad would always make kind of make fun of
00:56:34
them because their thing is like jazz fusion. And he's like, "Okay, that's
00:56:38
that's not a new thing by any means." But it was one thing we do just together
00:56:44
is we go to the N show in in, you know, in January every year. And one year after he had showed me Dirty Loops and I
00:56:51
started really liking their music, they happened to be playing. Um, we unfortunately didn't get to catch a
00:56:56
concert, but they were doing an autograph signing and he was like, "Do you want to just meet them real quick?"
00:57:00
And I was like, "Yeah, absolutely." And so we go through the line and my dad
00:57:05
just wanted to stop and talk to them and held up the line and we just chatted with them and it was it just was a cool
00:57:12
experience cuz you know sometimes there are generational differences naturally with what your parents like and what you
00:57:19
like. But it's really cool to have that where I know he loves them and then I'll
00:57:23
be like, "Hey, did you know there's a new Dirty Loop song?" And it's really
00:57:26
cool to kind of dissect and talk about them together. So, >> it's cool too because like I mean I
00:57:32
think this whole I mean our conversation has been really centered on like media so far, but like it was it's cool now
00:57:38
that like like we were saying like there's a lot of things that maybe we weren't allowed to listen to or watch or
00:57:43
read as kids that like now as adults we kind of can kind of put like we can show
00:57:49
it to our parents and they're like, "Oh, this is actually like pretty cool." You
00:57:52
know, or I don't know. I think there's less of a um our parents were so concerned with
00:57:59
protecting us as kids and then like now we're adults. We're obviously we've been
00:58:04
adults for a while at this point. Um and so I think some of those walls of the needing to protect us from everything
00:58:11
bad have come down a little bit. And so we're able to like hopefully expose them
00:58:16
to some things that were like, "Hey, this is actually really cool and I think
00:58:18
you would like this." Um and it's not something they traditionally would have
00:58:22
gone for, you know? >> Right. Yeah. No, that's really it's it's
00:58:25
awesome to to be able to see that and, you know, like to open their eyes to some stuff that maybe, you know, at one
00:58:33
time they thought they wouldn't have allowed us to watch or read, but oh, it's actually kind of cool. Like I said,
00:58:41
I really hope to I I really will have to ask my parents to see if they have even
00:58:46
watched Harry Potter or read it. But uh that'll be fun to in my opinion the books are a lot better. So I think it
00:58:52
would be fun to get them to read it. >> Well, and your mom always surprised me
00:58:55
because I remember cuz like I said earlier like I was really into sci-fi and I remember watching Tron for the
00:59:01
first time and your mom was like I worked on that movie and I was like what? And then her and I having this
00:59:06
whole conversation about like our love for sci-fi >> and um and she was like yeah I worked on
00:59:11
this movie and like we helped with this and I remember going to the theater to watch this movie and I was like what the
00:59:16
hell? I was like, Barb France is [ __ ] awesome. Like >> she really does throw out those random
00:59:22
facts be like, "Oh yeah, you know, I casually like met Hugh Jackman before he
00:59:27
was famous." Or like, you know, she has all these great stories, but yeah, she
00:59:31
she was in film production. So the fact that she worked on like the original Tron is just awesome.
00:59:38
>> Yeah, exactly. So yeah, as a huge Tron fan. Yeah, that was like one of the
00:59:44
coolest things ever. Okay, I do I want to pivot the conversation just a little bit back to stuff that's maybe not
00:59:50
media, but like >> other things we weren't allowed to do as homeschoolers.
00:59:55
>> And I know for me, it's not so much that I wasn't 100% allowed to do this, but it
01:00:03
was highly discouraged. And I feel like in general, our friend group was highly discouraged was dating. Yeah,
01:00:09
>> that was interesting because when I got to college and I started to realize that
01:00:14
everyone else there had been like in relationships before, had kissed people, had like all these
01:00:22
things. I was like, "Wait, these people are not like your siblings?" Like, I
01:00:27
don't know. I don't know. Like, does that make sense? Like, >> no, it absolutely does. I
01:00:34
I I was thinking because you're homeschooled for one, so you're at home all the time and people assume that you
01:00:41
don't have friends. That's absolutely not true. But to go off of that, the
01:00:48
group that we were homeschooled in, you're right. A lot of thing we acted like siblings, you know, they were your
01:00:55
brother or your sister in Christ. they there was no um encouragement or really any push to date. Um you know I I
01:01:05
remember kind of asking my mom at a young age like about dating but I don't think I even knew what dating was myself
01:01:13
at that point. I to me it was just well you know I guess eventually during puberty like I started realizing you
01:01:23
know oh you just find someone and you get married there there was there was no like
01:01:31
there was really no explanation or or talk about what dating was or that it would be okay to you know have a few
01:01:39
boyfriends or or partners before you find the one in my mind. It was always like, well, you know, I'll I'll get a
01:01:47
purity ring and stay celibate until I get married and and whoever my boyfriend is will probably be my husband. Like,
01:01:54
there was no um real talk about like casual dating. Uh and and like you said, a lot of I didn't really like a lot of,
01:02:04
you know, romantically, I didn't really like a lot of the people I hung out with
01:02:07
in our homeschool group. They were always just good friends. I was really good friends with, you know, you and and
01:02:13
other guys, but it was never any sort of like, oh, I could see myself, you know,
01:02:20
marrying this person someday. And it was like, no, that was kind of like, ew, that'll happen to me later, you know, in
01:02:30
um, sure, I had crushes, but deep down I knew that was never going to turn into anything. It was way too high to would
01:02:39
to obtain it for me. I could just have the crush and that was going to be kind of where it lived and died, you know,
01:02:45
and was never going to have the confidence to ask a guy for his number or I didn't even know how to do any of
01:02:52
that. It was really hard to just talk to guys in general. >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it was
01:02:57
like weird, too, because we had these like like I said, like we said, there was like we were very much like, oh, it's
01:03:05
like your siblings, right? Like, you know, like it's like like car's your
01:03:09
sister kind of a thing. So, it's like it would be weird to like look at you in
01:03:13
any other light besides that and like other people kind of same deal. Like >> I'm like, oh yeah, it'd be very weird to
01:03:20
like date this person even though maybe I like find them attractive or whatever,
01:03:24
but like I also like you, I also had that kind of that mindset of like, well, I'm going to date
01:03:29
somebody and then that's like I better be pretty sure because that's the
01:03:32
forever partner kind of a thing. >> I also had my parents kind of knew that
01:03:37
I probably was going to go away to college and so my dad had asked me like to not really date in high school and I
01:03:44
think his logic behind that was less on a like purity culture level. I don't
01:03:50
know. Maybe I guess I'll have to ask him about this, but he had a high school
01:03:54
girlfriend and he still was with her when he went to college and that was like I think kind of an issue for him
01:04:00
and it was difficult to do long distance and and all those types of things. So I
01:04:04
think he to in his own sense he was trying to like protect me from like I just don't want you to like have that
01:04:10
same issue because like going to college is already it's hard enough to make
01:04:14
friends in college but then you're also you don't want to be that person who's
01:04:17
like oh I got to call my girlfriend every night and like it takes you away from the opportunity to go hang out with
01:04:23
people >> and so I think he had this kind of like protection of like just wait like you'll
01:04:28
maybe meet somebody in college or like after college or whatever but it made dating really weird because like you, I
01:04:34
had no clue what the hell I was doing. I was like, I know I'm supposed to maybe
01:04:38
ask somebody out, but like >> how do I do that? And then also, how do I do that in a way that's like I'm not
01:04:44
asking them out as like friends, like cuz that was I mean >> I hung out with so many of you guys like
01:04:50
in high school and stuff and it was always just like, "Oh, let's go get
01:04:53
coffee or whatever." And I I didn't ever think of it as like weird. It was very
01:04:56
much just like two friends getting coffee. >> It was never weird. Like there were
01:05:01
people that I had at different levels that I was like, "Oh, that's crush status." So if they
01:05:07
were ask that was going to be different than, >> you know, like you said, let's just go
01:05:16
to the movies like all together. Let's just, you know, go on vacation. Let's
01:05:19
just like whatever we would do. We were always so close with each other that it felt very I was like, "Oh, they're
01:05:26
they're just my brothers." Like except those two guys, right? Though guy those
01:05:30
guys are on, you know, higher pedestal. If they were to ask me out, totally different. Wouldn't have known what to
01:05:36
do. Yeah. But and in fact, they did not out. But >> like I don't know. We were still fig
01:05:43
figuring out myself like let alone >> Yeah. >> dating another person like I didn't know
01:05:48
myself at all. I was very awkward and didn't know how to function and and didn't know what was happening with my
01:05:55
body and the changes and why am I feeling these feelings and you know struggles with like you know porn and
01:06:02
everything like that. Like I was dealing with all of that on my own. Like it wasn't I I knew I wanted to date and I
01:06:09
knew I wanted to be married but that always just felt like it was you know way farther away.
01:06:16
>> Oh yeah. No, I I feel that because I think to your point like I think we were
01:06:20
left a lot with this kind of like unknown when it comes to like we weren't t sex wasn't talked about,
01:06:29
relationships weren't talked about a whole lot like and that kind of a thing.
01:06:32
So I think it was just also this like unknown of like what does what does any of that even look like in
01:06:42
>> a good way so to speak because like >> and like how do you >> I think for me I think the biggest thing
01:06:50
was I was like I don't know how to like appropriately take it to a level that's
01:06:55
not friendship and like >> I was like is it like when does it become that because I was like I don't
01:07:02
necessarily It wasn't I didn't think it was like kissing. Like I mean obviously
01:07:05
that's a part of dating typically in a romantic relationship but like I was like I don't think you just immediately
01:07:11
go there. Like I was like I think there's like this friendship plus level of like hanging out with somebody. And I
01:07:18
was like I don't know how to clarify that that's where I wanted to be with
01:07:23
people. And so like I was even thinking about the fact that like cuz we went to prom together. I remember you calling me
01:07:28
and being like hey you want to go to prom? And then this like disclaimer of like but like we're just friends because
01:07:35
it's like there's this there's this thing that's like well okay you're
01:07:38
asking me to prom like what does that is there subtext to that right is there something additional and it's like
01:07:44
>> you know I didn't know you and I did the same thing the next year clarify
01:07:48
>> yeah exactly well and I did I did the same thing the next year when I asked
01:07:52
Julia to go to prom. It was like, "Do you want to go to prom?" But like also this like additional like,
01:07:58
"But we're just friends. Like I just like want to go with somebody."
01:08:02
Um, >> and I think that was like >> it's weird because I don't like I talk
01:08:08
to other people about their prom experience and they're like they there wasn't a disclaimer on it and even if
01:08:12
they were just friends like >> and I'm like that's such an interesting
01:08:16
thing that like we kind of had to add this little extra hint of something on there to be like
01:08:23
>> yeah but >> it's not like the movies. It's not like >> we had to have the disclaimer because we
01:08:30
were at least I was like watched like I it was I mean not that anything was going to happen by any means but it was
01:08:37
like I didn't want anyone to think friends, family, other chaperons or adults. I didn't want them to think that
01:08:44
it was anything more than just friends. And for right obviously for homeschooling for our group to have a
01:08:50
prom where it was okay to invite and go with you know guy girl instead of just everyone showing up like the normal
01:08:58
dances. I think that put a lot of pressure especially on me being like okay well you're my good friend. you you
01:09:06
would be the best person to do this with, but I'm not asking you out to say,
01:09:13
you know, maybe we can be in a relationship, like anything like that. It was just like, "By the way, we're
01:09:18
just friends." So, we get it out, you know, all clear from the get-go because
01:09:23
there's going to be a lot of people there, and I don't want people to assume
01:09:26
that we're >> all of a sudden because people will talk and and I was very concerned that, you
01:09:31
know, what if my parents find out and think that it was something other than just friendship, you know, and I was
01:09:37
just very concerned with because the parents watched and they watched at the dances. they, you know, had an eye on
01:09:46
everything and and >> the the dances like no one showed up together, >> but if you showed up with someone else
01:09:53
who was not your family, people saw and people commented on it. And so I felt like I was just very careful because I
01:10:00
didn't want any rumors to get out. Not that that rumor would be bad by any means, but I was still just like so
01:10:09
worried about getting in trouble. I feel like it was like having parents but like having like a billion parents
01:10:18
watching you and that's an exaggeration obviously but like everybody's parents
01:10:22
are kind of like watching. So like I remember um I used to hang out east and Aventura a lot and I would hang out with
01:10:30
with some girls and we would go get coffee, go get ice cream, whatever. >> We just hang out. No big deal. Whatever.
01:10:38
So we but we would always end up at this one Starbucks and one of the homeschool
01:10:43
moms just so happened ran into me multiple times with different girls and then made it a thing of like going and
01:10:50
telling somebody and being like is it basically is Jacob like getting around kind of a thing like
01:10:56
>> and I was just like I'm hanging out with friends like and I'm also allowed to
01:11:00
hang out with friends of the opposite sex and my parents trust me that nothing's happening kind of a deal and
01:11:07
their parents trust them that nothing's happening. I will never forget uh the f
01:11:13
the first time I got like left alone with a girl that was uh I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to remember exactly
01:11:19
what happened, but like uh I spent a lot of time at the Bozart's house. Love that
01:11:24
family to death, but like I remember getting left alone at their house with one of their girls and like and being
01:11:30
like, "Whoa, this is weird." Like how? And it the reality is it wasn't weird.
01:11:37
It was the fact that it felt weird because it was like, well, what if someone finds out that we were like
01:11:43
alone together? And it's like, yeah, >> then nothing. It's a nothing burger.
01:11:47
Like, we're just friends. But like >> I there's this weird kind of level of
01:11:53
like because we didn't talk about it in in our groups of like it's okay to do these
01:11:59
things in the purity culture play in there of like you know there there's this kind of uncomfortable sense that
01:12:07
like you're doing something wrong even though you're not doing anything wrong.
01:12:11
>> Well, I always Yeah, exactly. I always found myself wondering, but like I'm not
01:12:17
thinking this about this person, but what if they're having thoughts about me
01:12:20
that I don't know? Like we've never talked about this. >> And it's like, okay, then they're
01:12:24
sinning, but am I sinning as well? Because I'm in the room alone. What if? What could happen? And then my mind
01:12:30
would just spiral. And it was like, you know, obviously first worry was that people would find out, but like second
01:12:36
worry was like, what if they like me? What if they, you know, they want to try something? What if I'm not ready for it?
01:12:42
what if I want to try something like and I didn't know it was such a cluster of
01:12:47
thoughts that I just it was I didn't know like I just didn't know what to do
01:12:54
in that situation and yeah that absolutely I mean it's frightening es then and when you
01:13:01
don't talk about it ahead of time like you're going to start to feel these
01:13:04
feelings for people or you know your your mind's going to go weird places it's and that's normal. Um, yeah, would
01:13:12
have been nice to kind of know that. >> Yeah, I agree with you. I think that
01:13:16
kind of if maybe our parents had given us that context of like, hey, it's gonna
01:13:21
like you're going to feel this way. It's going to it's normal. It's okay. Like,
01:13:25
and talked about the difference between like like a crush and infatuation as compared to like, okay, here's like
01:13:32
actually what maybe more of a relationship would look like and those types of things. Because like
01:13:38
>> even today, I still like I mean, we're over a decade out of this thing at this point, and I still look
01:13:44
back and I'm like, there are times when I look at it and I go, "What? Well, how
01:13:48
did this person feel about the situation?" Cuz like, >> yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:13:52
>> Would things be different? And I mean, that's a big like would and like I'm not
01:13:55
trying to like look back and be like regretful of any of it, but it's like it's just one of those things where I'm
01:13:59
like it's such an interesting I don't know, maybe I think way too much about it and it's like too much
01:14:05
experience. >> I I absolutely do. I mean uh there were I was trying to think of how to say that
01:14:13
without dropping anyone's names. It's not going to be able I was going to talk
01:14:16
about importance of being earnest and there's >> that was a time that's for sure.
01:14:22
>> No. Yeah, that was a time. I'll just leave it at that. Um but I mean yeah
01:14:27
that was a good example but >> I mean I think theater in general it was like kind of weird because we started to
01:14:34
there was like this there was definitely a shift there became a shift I think in
01:14:39
the theater where it was like as we got older we wanted to start doing less >> plays and more like adult
01:14:49
>> themes and things like that which involve romance and kissing on stage.
01:14:53
Well, how do you do that in a way that's like whatever and you know protective of
01:14:59
people and all those things? And so we all learned like stage kissing and like all these types of things.
01:15:04
>> And it's like well that's really weird when you also don't have like
01:15:10
any type of sexual outlet so to speak. Like I think that's the thing that I think that's the the part that made it
01:15:17
weird. >> It was kind of a like you're we're in puberty. we're in like sexual peakness,
01:15:23
so to speak. Like it's just rampant at that point. Hormones are crazy. But like, so you're dealing with that and
01:15:29
then you're put in this in a lot of scenarios where like it's basically like
01:15:34
parents making you feel like like this is not like not sexual, like you shouldn't be feeling sexual,
01:15:42
but then you're putting these scenarios like theater where it's like, okay, but
01:15:45
you have to like fake kiss someone or you have to hold hands with people or you have to do anything. And so even if
01:15:49
you're not necessarily like even if you just have a crush on that person, you're
01:15:53
like >> I'm freaking out inside. >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember feeling the exact
01:15:59
same way. I was in a show. I will not disclose what show, but I was in a show uh where I had to be in love with
01:16:06
someone. And the person who was playing opposite of me, I didn't think any feelings for at all before that. like
01:16:17
not a thought, was a cool person, but that was about it. By the end of that show, I had such a raging crush on this
01:16:24
person because you have to be put in these situations that I had never been put in before
01:16:32
>> and like I have to hold hands with this person. I have to touch this person's
01:16:36
chest. I was like really weird about that because I I didn't grow up with brothers. I I don't know how to put
01:16:43
that. And but like the male species was just so foreign to me. I didn't know
01:16:49
anything about them. And now I have to be super close with one and act like I'm
01:16:56
in love with them and sing a song where I'm in love with them and you know the
01:17:00
fake kiss and you have to hold their hand. It was just it was so funny how convinced I was that oh this is reality.
01:17:09
This is how you fall in love is I have a crush on this person now. And then the show ends and you go about your life and
01:17:17
you never see that person like >> right >> aside from random times and I just
01:17:21
remember being so confused because I was like wait this this felt like what love
01:17:28
was like this this felt so fun and so good and I didn't even like this person
01:17:33
but now I do but it's because of you know in theater you have to act and I couldn't dist like I couldn't separate
01:17:41
that from reality to me it felt reality >> and like you said, you know, the fake
01:17:46
kissing, you have to be married to this person. I mean, and some of the the shows that we were in had some very
01:17:53
adult themes and they would either just let's brush past it or let's change the
01:17:58
words or, you know, but the reality was still the same. We were all very curious
01:18:02
and we were all I feel like we just didn't know anything like we were I was just so
01:18:10
clueless and >> Yeah. Yeah, I just I remember that the second you said theater was like, oh
01:18:16
yeah, it was a fun situation and then all of a sudden you have to, oh, I'm acting like I'm in love with this
01:18:23
person. Maybe I am in love with them, you know? >> Yeah. Experienced it before and and I
01:18:29
wanted that feeling again, but I I didn't know how to go about getting that,
01:18:33
>> right? >> Because I Yeah. No experience. >> I think it was weird. Like I'm even
01:18:37
trying to think of like did we know anybody who dated? I'm trying to even remember. Like I just don't it just
01:18:43
really was like nothing. >> Everybody had crushes on people and everybody oh it was all about who likes
01:18:51
likes someone. You know you can like them but if you like them like like them like them. It was a big deal.
01:18:58
>> But no one did anything about it. I I you know I just had crushes and I would
01:19:03
try to talk to that person would fail miserably. I'd write journal entries about that person. I would write little
01:19:09
fake letters to that person. Like everyone in their mother knew I liked that person but didn't do anything past
01:19:16
that. And I don't know anyone who succeeded at doing that. And I don't know anybody who really
01:19:24
talked about like, hey, it's okay to ask someone out or it's okay to, you know,
01:19:30
go on a date with this person. Like I don't feel like anyone really did that.
01:19:33
And I didn't didn't know anyone >> who had girlfriends really or boyfriend. Like nobody I knew
01:19:42
dated anyone. It was all just like fiery crushes that no one said anything about.
01:19:48
I think that's also what made it even more awkward in in the long run was the
01:19:52
fact that then like >> you don't want to be the first person to like break ground on that, you know, cuz
01:20:01
then like you're going to just be bombarded with people always asking questions and like I don't know about
01:20:08
you, but like also like I know that like there was kind of also this push for like an additional like the purity
01:20:18
culture stuff, this like courtship thing and like you know having parents be very
01:20:23
involved and other people be very involved in your relationship and like very much giving it to God and like it's
01:20:30
very it's like a community activity so to speak and then like >> so weird to think about it now like
01:20:40
yeah because in the Bible and and the books that I read it was always about courtship and like you
01:20:47
having family involved and there was no sense of privacy if you went that route. And I remember being
01:20:54
conflicted because it was like, >> but this this is my thing. Like I remember when my mom found out who my
01:21:01
big crush was >> and I got punished because not for having a crush, but because I was so
01:21:07
intense with it. I was making other people uncomfortable because I just didn't know what to do or how to handle
01:21:11
the crush. And I remember feeling awful because I was punished for having a crush, which was a natural feeling. But
01:21:17
I wasn't coached on how to deal with those feelings or encourage like if you
01:21:23
really like this person, there's ways to tell that person between you and that
01:21:29
person. You know, you don't have to have your family involved. And and it's such
01:21:33
a weird thing to think about now, the idea of courtship and having people involved because it's
01:21:39
>> there was no sense of privacy and it was Yeah, that was just normal. And when you
01:21:45
get out of that, it's like whoa. Like, like you said, it was a community event
01:21:50
if someone had a boyfriend or a girlfriend, which is feels very uh old timey. >> When I got to college, it was very
01:22:00
interesting because like I I knew that I was like available to date at that point, but I I didn't know what to do.
01:22:10
So, I was very like I took way too long to get to the point of like asking someone out because I was
01:22:16
just like I didn't know what to do. Like and I don't know how I didn't feel like
01:22:20
I knew how to maybe like I said go from like friend to like friend plus where it's like I want this to be a little bit
01:22:26
more serious but like I'm not like let's go make out kind of a thing. Like I just
01:22:30
kind of want it to be like >> like a little bit more intention where I'm like I I like you like you. Um, and
01:22:36
you know, so maybe can we spend more like alone time together and get to know each other better? And so it was really
01:22:43
weird because like my first kind of like dating so to speak, like was a semi-lind
01:22:50
state where like she asked her friend to like set up a date with me and I didn't
01:22:55
know this girl at all. So like basically like showed up, we did the thing and I was like but I kind of go into it with
01:23:01
this understanding that like she obviously finds me attractive. she wants to hang out with me
01:23:06
>> in a romantic sense. Okay. So, that took that out of my mind. So, I was kind of
01:23:11
like fortunate because I was like, "Okay, I already have the answer to the question of like, do you like me?" Like,
01:23:18
and and it was fun. We had a great time and then like we would spend time with friends and like do some alone stuff and
01:23:24
we had a good group of friends and like it was very >> normal. But because I didn't have any
01:23:31
training, I fell really hard for this person. And then they didn't feel the same way and I was like,
01:23:37
>> "Okay, what do I like with all of that?" And it like kind of destroyed me and it
01:23:41
was >> yeah, it was like very weird and put me in a really big funk. But like
01:23:48
like looking back on it, I'm like I don't know that I would change anything
01:23:50
about it aside from I now know that I'm like okay like I committed really hard
01:23:57
to this thing that was it was it should have just been very casual and just like
01:24:02
we're getting to know each other on like that friend plus level >> kind of a thing. So when I ended up
01:24:08
dating my wife, it was interesting because like we were friends first. Well, we were enemies first. enemies to
01:24:15
friends to lovers. Um, >> but when we we were friends and so a lot we spent a lot of time with other people
01:24:22
and then and then it started being like just the two of us and then it was like oh okay and I took forever to get to the
01:24:31
point where I was like oh I think I like like you like you kind of a thing >> and
01:24:37
>> that was I mean when I asked her out I'm sure it came off sounding so awkward
01:24:42
because I was like I want to like take you out as Like, >> yeah, >> more than friends. Like, I think I did
01:24:48
the opposite of like the prom thing where we're like, "But we're just
01:24:50
friends." Like, I think I did the opposite where I was like, "I want to go
01:24:52
do this thing." And she's like, "Yeah, let's go do it." I'm like, "Okay, but
01:24:55
like just to clarify, like more than friends, like like um crash and burn. How do I say
01:25:04
this? I'm just gonna go for it." >> Yeah. Exactly. So, I think I like went
01:25:07
the opposite way with it where I was just like, "Okay, now instead of clarifying,
01:25:12
you know, we're just friends. I need to clarify like no, like >> I want to pay I want this to be
01:25:18
romantic." Um, >> yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which I mean, hey, it worked out.
01:25:22
So, you know, it's okay. But >> yeah, I was going to say you're good.
01:25:27
But >> yeah, but it was like a very weird because she doesn't have the I think the
01:25:33
dating hang-ups that like I had where I was just kind of like I because even in our relationship it's like I didn't know
01:25:39
how to progress through the different like levels of a relationship to get to marriage even. And like I think that was
01:25:49
just a very >> I had competing things in my brain where I was like >> am I in it fully with this person of
01:25:57
like >> like I feel romantic towards them but like I was not sure if they were like
01:26:02
the one >> you know and so like I think there's it it was weird. It was very strange cuz
01:26:07
like like we mentioned earlier there was kind of this like once you start dating
01:26:11
somebody >> that should be the person like you made you made your choice. >> Yeah.
01:26:16
>> Yeah. There was no there was no gray area for anything. And it was, you know,
01:26:22
once we started getting older, we saw people get together and get married very fast. And I knew I didn't want that, but
01:26:30
I also knew, well, but I have to pick the right one because that's going to be
01:26:34
my husband. Like, I can't, you know, there's no other option. And when I started going to college and
01:26:43
started seeing the rest of the world didn't do things that way, it was very scary and it made me like not want to
01:26:51
take part in that. Um, and then, you know, I I got my first boyfriend at 23 and um, still had no idea what I was
01:27:02
doing. Um, that was a whole roller coaster of a relationship that I don't have to get into, but essentially
01:27:09
I knew pretty fairly pretty early on that he wasn't going to be my future husband. But I didn't know
01:27:17
how to break it off or I didn't know how to just be casual and and I didn't feel
01:27:24
okay with just casual dating because >> you you can't just casually date someone
01:27:29
and then you know go along and then eventually break up like no it has to be forever. And so that caused me to spiral
01:27:37
severely when I we ended that relationship. And then I I dove deep into a lot of unhealthy relationships
01:27:45
and expected, like how you said, I fell really hard for those people really fast. And my brain didn't know
01:27:56
that that that I was falling so hard for these people and that I was so upset when they
01:28:02
would ghost me or cut me off because it was like, wait, that's not what's
01:28:07
supposed to happen. And then it was just this repetitive cycle of like it kept happening and then it was like this is
01:28:15
not what I thought was going to happen with my life. I was supposed to find the one. I was supposed to find the one. I
01:28:20
put it all on myself and then it was it's hard when you fall so hard for someone because and I didn't know
01:28:27
better. I was like, well, this is the person fall hard, get broken up with. Oh, wait. I guess that wasn't the
01:28:32
person. Do it again. You know, instead of just >> stepping back and allowing myself to
01:28:38
just be friends with people and realizing that it it does kind of just happen when you're not looking for it.
01:28:45
Like I tried so hard to find the one and when I did it happened when I was least
01:28:51
expecting it which I think is hilarious and >> we were just friends >> and I didn't know how to you know I had
01:28:58
learned from other relationships that you know >> I had decided that guys wanted sex and
01:29:03
if they wanted that that's what was going to happen and and so that just I did that pattern repeatedly and when I
01:29:12
met my now boyfriend I was like okay That's that's probably all you want,
01:29:17
right? And then it was like, wait, you're a genuine person. Wait, we're really good friends. Wait, we just spent
01:29:23
a week talking every single day. Like, and there was we couldn't even think about hugging each other because it was
01:29:32
awkward. Like, it just was different. And And that's really just I feel like
01:29:36
that's how it happens. It happens when you're least expecting it. And growing
01:29:40
up so unaware of what happened during dating caused me to kind of I don't know
01:29:49
just have these expectations for each person that I dated that they were going to be
01:29:55
my future husband. And when they didn't meet those expectations it was just that
01:29:59
repetitive cycle which sucked and was really you know hard because then you meet that non-toxic relationship and you
01:30:06
almost sabotage it yourself because You're used to toxicity. >> Well, and the the thing about like
01:30:13
building a relationship, I mean, Maddie and I were together. We got together I was 19. We got married when I was 22.
01:30:19
So, we were together for 3 years. 20 about to be 29. So, I mean, there we go. Another seven years. But like, we went
01:30:27
through so many things as a couple before we were ever even like broaching the topic of marriage of like the her
01:30:35
taking care of me. I had surgery. she took care of me. Um, my grandma died. She was there. She was part of that. She
01:30:42
was like supportive. And so, like all of these things that I think I was under the impression that
01:30:50
they were like these were things that, yeah, happened with a significant other, but like more in the context of like
01:30:56
marriage where they would support you for that kind of thing. And and so when I started to see that
01:31:01
like, okay, somebody could be those things for me or just be there to support me in times like that, I was
01:31:08
like, okay, like this feels a lot more solid. Like it felt it was different. It really solidified to me that like our
01:31:17
relationship was more than friendship, but it was Yeah. And it was on the way to to marriage. And so I think one of
01:31:27
the things that you brought up that I think was really interesting is like your mindset of like guys are just in it
01:31:32
for sex. And and I would agree that a lot of guys I think are >> kind of that's what we're told all like
01:31:40
growing up is like guys that's all we can think about every however many seconds or whatever you know we think
01:31:47
about sex. And I think that it's kind of it's been so baked into society
01:31:55
that that's the reality for men when the reality is like we also want a lot of
01:32:01
other things. Like sex is a component of a romantic relationship that we of course I think everybody should want
01:32:07
that. It's very normal. That's human. That's human. >> Um but like there's a lot more to it.
01:32:14
And I think I think a lot of guys get robbed of that because they're not told
01:32:19
like what else they should be like looking for like the emotional component of a
01:32:26
relationship. And so you end up with like guys that are really crummy because they don't like
01:32:32
>> they don't know how to give a partner like the the emotional side of
01:32:37
themselves because they're just it's all physical. Um or what they've been told
01:32:40
is just like it's physicality. And so, >> yeah, >> hopefully we can get to a point where
01:32:46
it's like we can kind of start to balance the two a little bit more where it's like, you know, everyone has this
01:32:52
ability to tap into like the the the feminine and the masculine energy for lack of better terms, but like
01:32:58
>> like we have the ability to tap into both sides of those for for ourselves
01:33:03
and and that's okay. Like emotional dudes, like that's okay. And like I've
01:33:09
met your boyfriend. He's super cool and very open and like the way he talks about life. I'm like this
01:33:15
>> he seems like a much more well-rounded person than like a lot of dudes.
01:33:20
>> And yeah, and that's that's what caught my attention is that he wasn't like
01:33:24
other dudes or at least dudes that I had, you know, guys that I had been with in the past. And it was like and he said
01:33:30
early on it was like you know he he like you said the he did have that mindset of
01:33:37
like sure sex is a part of a relationship whether you have that before after marriage depends on the
01:33:43
person but like the biggest thing for him was personality and he really fell in love with my personality and who I
01:33:50
was and I was able to do that as well and like you said go through all of I mean we're not married yet and we plan
01:33:57
on it but we're we're not married yet and we've gone through so much together
01:34:01
as a couple and you have to in my opinion in order to build that relationship and like you said you
01:34:08
realize that oh like we went through like hell and back and we did it together like if you're in it for that
01:34:16
>> yeah exactly I think that there's kind of this I mean we know a lot of pe I
01:34:21
mean I would even argue I got married really young 22 is very young to get married but
01:34:26
>> um But like we know a lot of people who got married pretty young, sometimes
01:34:31
teenagers. Um, and like it's interesting because like sometimes there's not that
01:34:39
there's not that built out like relationship aspect of like >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Like it could still
01:34:45
happen. Like that's not to say it can't happen, but I I'm trying to think of how
01:34:49
what I'm trying to say here, but like >> I know for me, I needed the 3 years that
01:34:54
it took to figure out that like, oh, this is more this is what I'm looking for, so to speak. Like I just needed the
01:35:02
time to do that and >> like so just everyone works on their own schedule and that's okay. And like, you
01:35:08
know, >> yeah, if you know, you know, and if you want to, you know, if you want to get
01:35:12
married, that's right away. That's that's your call. I I think just you and
01:35:16
I are very similar in the fact that like I need to know that like that's the
01:35:21
person and I mean I've known for a while but also yeah there's just I think society puts a
01:35:28
lot of timelines on things like oh well you're not married by two years in dating
01:35:33
>> he's he's just dragging his feet or he just doesn't actually want to marry you
01:35:37
this that and the other >> sure for some cases that could be just not in the case for me I know that you
01:35:43
know if I asked him to he proposed, you know, on the minute, but uh we we've established that we have
01:35:50
that soulmate connection. So, it's almost like I know that's going to happen, but I'm
01:35:57
in no rush. I have friends who have been together 10 plus years and they've, you
01:36:00
know, they're basically married, but they haven't actually gotten that step.
01:36:05
And that's okay, too. Like, there's a different timeline for different people.
01:36:08
And it's it's hard when people in society just assume that, you know, well, yeah, what are you doing if you're
01:36:15
not married by x amount of years? Like, >> I've reframed it a lot. I've had to
01:36:19
reframe it. And obviously, if for people who listen and you know this, Carrie, like I I deconstructed religion, not a
01:36:25
Christian anymore. Like I don't subscribe to a lot of biblical anything. Like I just don't like I'm like I you
01:36:32
don't need marriage to be in a happy relationship. You don't like that's not
01:36:35
the end all beall. you don't live in sin if you're not married kind of a thing.
01:36:38
Like that's my stance on a lot of stuff. But also what I realized even before I
01:36:43
left religion was that like my biblical understanding of what marriage was has nothing to do with our societal
01:36:52
understanding of what marriage was. It was a commitment that like Maddie and I had decided we were like we are each
01:36:58
other's person and we're going to we're we're in it for the long haul. And that
01:37:03
was something we shared that was our connection, our emotional, spiritual, >> physical connection. And so like that
01:37:10
was enough commitment where I was like, I'm good. Like I don't need >> I don't need a paper that says that I'm
01:37:16
legally married. I don't need >> a blessing from anybody else's parents.
01:37:20
I just that was enough of a connection for us. And so like >> that that was good enough. Now like I
01:37:29
also wanted to do we wanted to do the the full commitment of like also >> to say full commitment but like we also
01:37:35
wanted to do the like the license and the marriage all that stuff like okay cool
01:37:39
>> the le yeah the legal aspect of it but like >> you know but if we had decided not to do
01:37:44
that it's like >> I I think I'd be okay with that too. >> Yeah. The theme I keep seeing come up in
01:37:52
your podcast and just in conversations with people is the theme about purity culture and dating and what dating was
01:37:58
like or the concept of dating I should say, not even dating and how it had effects on us as adults. And I think
01:38:05
that's important to talk about and and bring to light because again I'm not
01:38:11
going to blame anything on the fact that I was homeschooled. It I am my own person whether I was homeschooled or
01:38:17
whether I've been to public school. I'll never know how different I would have
01:38:21
been had I gone to public school. But um I know that a lot of the morals and things that were taught to me uh
01:38:30
influenced me and some were for good and some caused quite a uh quite a rabbit hole of all sorts of fun stuff.
01:38:41
>> Yeah. >> That even means >> stuff we got to Yeah. We're still
01:38:45
working through people. We're still >> still working through it. >> And that's life. for you know on our
01:38:49
journeys which is like I think is is good. I think the thing that I have come to realize the most and why like I talk
01:38:58
about purity culture so much on this podcast. One because like I'm dealing with my own [ __ ] from that. But two,
01:39:05
because like I also still see it even though a lot of people have recognized the negative effects of it
01:39:11
and have spoken up about it and even people within like churches that I went to who are still part of those churches
01:39:17
speaking up and being against it, I still see a lot of the effects of that in place for a lot of people. And
01:39:25
>> and so that's why like I constantly am talking about just like talk about these
01:39:30
things and like I even see older generations of people who like I think the reason that a like our parents
01:39:36
didn't talk to us maybe so much about sex or relationships or anything like that was sometimes because like I don't
01:39:42
even know that they knew what like what that looked like. And so even though they were in committed marriages, like
01:39:51
they struggled, I think, with understanding maybe how to communicate what that looked like.
01:39:59
>> And >> I'm sure that was hard. I couldn't imagine having to do that. Like,
01:40:04
>> and you and you probably worry about too like you don't want to give your kid
01:40:08
like the green light to just like do whatever you want. Like it doesn't matter, you know? Like, but there's
01:40:15
there's I was I was talking to um I mean, I've had them on the show, Stephanie Boy and
01:40:23
and Dr. Chz Levby. They've been on the show before, but like one of the things
01:40:27
that I I talked to them a lot about was the fact that they're like >> um
01:40:34
when we weren't given the tools that we needed, we sought them out other places.
01:40:39
So, like for instance, if my parents have talked to me about sex, what what am I going to what am I going to get on
01:40:45
Google and search? I'm going to want to know what this is, right? I've heard
01:40:48
this term before. I kind of get it. What am I going to look up? And even if I'm
01:40:52
looking up something that should be wholesome, I'm probably going to end up on a porn website and that's going to
01:40:57
skew my version of sex. It's going to it's it has this impact of like setting
01:41:03
my pallet for like what is normal sexual relations and in the same way with like
01:41:10
just even the romantic relationship of understanding what dating looks like and the expectations to have on a partner
01:41:15
and all those things. If if my parents aren't talking to me about those things
01:41:18
and giving me an understanding, I'm going to go to media. I'm going to go to
01:41:22
other places to look for those. Well, is that a healthy place to go for those? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. And so it
01:41:30
creates these skewed versions in our brain of like what is >> real and what is fantasy and that takes
01:41:37
a long time to un unc un kind of uh program those things out of our brain. >> Absolutely. I I share such similar
01:41:47
experiences with that of having to unlearn what I think is real or what I think >> right
01:41:54
>> is is you know I don't I don't know how else to put it but it's when you're not
01:42:03
talking about it and sharing about it or or sharing you know experiences or or you know just being open about these
01:42:13
things. You're you're going to get curious as a teenager and you're going
01:42:17
to look other places. And you know, granted, when I was younger, we didn't have as much access to the internet, but
01:42:23
there are ways. And now I I get super nervous for teenagers in this day and age because technology is everywhere and
01:42:30
porn is everywhere and and it's so easily accessible. It's in the movies.
01:42:35
It's in TV shows. And you know, it's it's not doing a good job of showing you
01:42:41
what reality is. And and I'm not saying, you know, that my parents could have
01:42:47
gone into a deep dive about what exactly sex is and this, that, and the other, cuz that obviously at the time would
01:42:53
have been a mortifying conversation to have with them. But the fact that I just didn't know how anything worked and it
01:43:00
was this taboo surrounding our our community. um I saw it other places, right? >> And and my brain thought that that's
01:43:13
what reality was. And then I learned real quick that that's not reality. And
01:43:16
that, you know, and like you said, then the deconstructing and the unlearning began. But the the overall theme that I
01:43:24
see from a lot of your episodes is is just talk about things. Be open or or or give your kids an open, safe place to
01:43:37
talk about their feelings and and these things and and anticipate that that's
01:43:43
going to come up. And I I know it's not easy. I I can't imagine being a parent
01:43:46
myself and having to figure out that conversation. And it can't have been hard for my parents because, you know,
01:43:53
back in their day, you just didn't talk about those things either. You didn't
01:43:56
talk about emotions and and and mental health just wasn't as much of a thing. I
01:44:01
mean, it was a thing, but it wasn't talked about then. And so, the way I I think about it is like if I wanted to
01:44:07
learn to cook, like either my mom was going to teach me how to learn to cook or I was going to watch the Food
01:44:12
Network, right? And like now the Food Network is a great example of the fact that like I can actually learn a
01:44:18
valuable skill, you know, watching Rachel Ray or Pauline or whoever else uh is on there now. But like
01:44:25
>> so but my mom also wasn't it it was something that like if I wanted to learn
01:44:29
how to cook whatever and my mom didn't know how to cook that, she could be like, "Oh, go turn on Food Network and
01:44:35
you'll figure it out. Go search it up on the internet and you can find it."
01:44:38
>> Yeah. >> And like there are lots of tools. So, even for people who don't know how to
01:44:43
talk about relationships, sex, like any of that kind of stuff, mental health, that's another great example too of like
01:44:49
if you don't know how to talk about that as a parent or just even like someone
01:44:52
our age, it's like >> go seek out resources that are actually helpful because they exist and like I
01:44:59
have learned so much from actually like seeking out worthwhile resources >> and
01:45:06
the like and there are plenty of things out there that also will help you then know how to communicate that to somebody
01:45:12
else, right? And so I think that's been like a huge and therapy can be huge for
01:45:17
people too, like learning the skills to communicate, but like >> that I don't know like that's the way
01:45:22
I've kind of reframed it in my brain is I'm like if I wanted to learn to cook, I
01:45:26
would go like seek out the knowledge to learn how to cook, right? And so if I want to know about sex or I want to know
01:45:30
about relationships, I should do the same. The difference is that like well this is true with kid cooking too.
01:45:36
There's a lot of bad advice out there. You got to like figure out what the good
01:45:39
stuff is. And so for someone who's like coming up and and a kid specifically,
01:45:44
like being able to point them in a direction that's like, hey, here's actually like really good advice as
01:45:50
opposed to as opposed to bad advice, you know, and and so >> anyway, no, this has been this has been
01:45:57
good. Yeah, we kind of went all over the place like you said. >> Um, >> it just happens. I mean, it it really
01:46:04
you make it so easy to just talk freely and that's what makes you such a good
01:46:09
podcast. episodes and we can cover a lot of topics. We have learned that we can go and it can go anywhere and it it's
01:46:15
great >> wherever it went and you know if you're listening and you can resonate with any
01:46:19
of this obviously please share because we really hope we're not alone and I know we're not alone. This podcast can
01:46:26
tell you that you're not alone. >> We're Yeah, Carrie, we are not alone. Um
01:46:31
and we are not alone. We are not the alone generation either. That's the thing. like they haven't now had
01:46:36
conversations with people who you know were homeschooled kids the 70s ' 80s and
01:46:39
'9s like holy [ __ ] like we are we are not alone in a lot of this thinking and
01:46:44
even now having conversations with homeschool kids that graduated in like 2020 like
01:46:50
>> and they're still going through the same thing. It's like that's that's wild to
01:46:53
me. So you know we're very much not alone um in a lot of this. So, I mean, for anybody who's listening or watching,
01:47:00
whatever, is there stuff you weren't allowed to do? Like, stuff you weren't
01:47:04
allowed to watch, listen to, read, dating. Was there other stuff you weren't allowed to do? Like, I want to
01:47:09
know. Drop it in the comments. Drop it, you know, shoot me an email, exhib. Uh, but yeah, I mean, Carrie, if there's
01:47:22
nothing else, I mean, this has been fantastic. I knew part two would be wonderful with you anyways, but
01:47:28
>> Oh, thank you. Yeah. No, I I just I just hope that I can share openly and
01:47:33
honestly my experience and if it helps even just one person not feel alone or resonate with any of this, that makes my
01:47:40
day. And you know, um, just I thank you for creating a safe platform to talk about it and to bring to light a lot of
01:47:50
things that Sorry, my cat. Bring to light a lot of things that um, you know, we went
01:47:56
through growing up homeschooled. >> Well, you made me not feel alone. So that you know, there you go. You're one
01:48:03
person. >> Yeah. >> But I'm sure there will be more. So like I said, thank you again. Thank you for
01:48:10
coming on the show and coming back. Coming back for part two. I'm sure there
01:48:14
will be a part three somewhere in the future. So, and probably not a year from now.
01:48:20
>> Yeah. Yeah. We'll make sure. >> We'll make sure. Yeah. So, anyway, thank
01:48:25
you once again and to all the wonderful listeners, watchers, consumers of this podcast, thank you for sticking around.
01:48:32
Hopefully, you stuck around this long. I mean, we're almost at two hours at this
01:48:34
point, and I know it's it's going to be trimmed down just a little bit, but you
01:48:37
get the real raw conversation. So, uh, hopefully you enjoyed it as well. And if you did, do all of the internet things
01:48:43
that you know how to do. Like, subscribe, share it with a friend, leave a comment, all all of this stuff. You
01:48:47
know what to do, okay? We are 2025. We have had the internet for long enough at this point. You know what to do. So,
01:48:53
please just do it. Um, and uh, yeah, until I see you next. All right. Peace. [Music]
01:49:11
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