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[music] [music] Carrie loved Matt from [music] the very beginning and he seemed to adore her.
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There were times when it [music] was very difficult being the wife of a pastor, but Carrie was very good at it.
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[music] I'm Carrie's mother. I'm Linda Dulan. More than anything, Carrie loved her
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girls. [music] Loved them. >> I think she was a very loving, caring person. Um, family was first for her,
00:00:57
but I [music] also know now Cassidy consumed her. The loss of Cassidy consumed her thoughts.
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After Cassidy passed away, she couldn't go to sleep. She could not go to [music]
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sleep. And so, she started taking sleeping pills. But I never saw it as suicidal. I saw it more as she's
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hurting. She's missing her daughter. It was right at [music] 12:00 by the time I made it home. I had that eerie
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feeling when I walked in the room that something's not [music] right here. I don't think my wife is okay. And I go to
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her side and I touch her and she doesn't move. She doesn't [music] respond. And I
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call out her name and there's no response. And I immediately pick up the phone and call 911.
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>> It was 911. Do you have an emergency? I my wife is laying in the bed and her lips are blue.
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>> There was no [music] pulse. There was nothing. I'm on the phone. >> Is she conscious?
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>> No, she's not. No, no, no, no. She's not breathing at all. [music] >> I was gone maybe 40 minutes and during
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that time, I don't know what happened to her. The police officer [music] brings me the note. I read the first line and I
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handed it back cuz I said, "I can't read it right now." My first thought at that
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time was, "Her parents need to be here." >> Matt tells us that Carrie committed suicide. I'm thinking, "How can that
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be?" I talked to her and she was just in a really good mood. >> I never thought in a million years that
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[music] my wife would do this. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. She was my best friend.
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>> I found it unbelievable, but I accepted [music] it. I mean, what was the alternative?
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>> My name is Matt Baker and I have been accused of murdering my wife. I'm Aaron Morardi, the preacher's wife.
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[music] [music] >> [music] >> I know if she was sitting here, she would look at you and say, "He didn't do
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anything. Leave him alone." But she [music] can't. Ever since Matt Baker's wife died suddenly at the age of 31, the
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Baptist preacher has lived under a cloud of suspicion. Is he an innocent man unfairly accused as [music] his
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followers and friends believe? >> Daddy, what are we having for supper? >> Or is he hiding a terrible dark secret?
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>> In your name we pray. Amen. >> It's so improbable. It's not who I am. I loved my wife. I never hurt her a day in
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my life. Carrie was a popular third grade teacher. [music] She and Matt had been together since
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meeting as counselors at a Baptist day camp in Waco in 1994. >> Uh I would have been 23 and she was 20.
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I met her and I thought this is the person for me. >> That was her senior picture in high
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school. >> I mean she's beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah, she is. >> Linda and Jim Dulan remember their
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daughter was instantly smitten with the Baylor University senior. The thing she kept talking about was, "Mom, this guy's
00:04:27
a really good Christian." >> Just three months after meeting, Matt and Carrie suddenly announced they were
00:04:34
getting married. >> Did you like him? >> My daughter loved him, and I saw him through her eyes.
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>> By their first anniversary, Carrie was pregnant with [music] daughter Kenzie.
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>> Oh, she was so excited. She really was a terrific mom. A second daughter, Cassidy, followed a year and a half
00:04:54
later. >> She loved her girls. You know, you know how you feel. There are no words.
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>> But right after Cassid's [music] first birthday, doctors discovered a brain tumor and she was hospitalized.
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>> There'd be days that it looked really good, prognosis was good, and then turned around and [music] went right
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back downhill. >> How did Carrie deal with that? >> Oh my gosh. She was just there with her baby. Just
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did not leave her. [music] >> In late February 1999, after a 90-day bedside vigil, Cassidy was well enough
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to go home. >> I always [music] assumed that she would pull through this and fight through
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this. >> But just after midnight on March 22nd, [music] Cassidy was rushed to the
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emergency room. This time, doctors couldn't save her. [music] to sit there and struggle that far, to
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come [music] what I thought was so far, to watch her die, you know, that was that was devastating.
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It really was a very hard hard thing to cope with, >> especially for Carrie. How hard did she
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take that death? >> Oh, incredibly hard. She lost her child and she grieved hard.
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A grief counselor helped Carrie get through the first year. And in 2000, a third daughter, Grace, was born. But
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Matt says his wife was never the same. >> I don't think it [music] was a split second. All of a sudden, she was
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completely different. It was a gradual changing of a person. She had um almost two personalities in a way. not not
00:06:38
negative, but when she went to work, she she had the ability to put [music] issues behind her and focus on work.
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>> And the other personality, >> the other personality was a little bit more [music] withdrawn at home.
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>> The way Matt tells it, he became Mr. Mom to Kenzie and Grace. >> So, I typically [music] gave them their
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bath, wash their hair, get them dressed, put them to bed, sing them their songs,
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and read them their books. And from the time Cassidy died, [music] Matt says Carrie relied on pills to sleep.
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>> What kind of sleeping pills? What would she take? >> Unisome. >> An over-the-counter [music]
00:07:13
sleep medication. But Matt says sometimes she borrowed something stronger from [music] family and
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friends. >> I'm not even sure what the names would be. Other sleeping pills just to help
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her sleep, help her get a good night's sleep. And the toughest time for Carrie was
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always the March anniversary of Cassid's death. >> It was always two or three weeks leading
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up to it. It's coming. It's coming. I can't do this. I can't make it another year. I can't do this again.
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>> In April 2006, [music] 7 years after Cassidy died, Matt says Carrie was still
00:07:46
struggling with the loss. So, he took her to the doctor who diagnosed her as depressed and prescribed an
00:07:53
anti-depressant. And about that time, my wife started almost hyperventilating again in the
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office. [music] Didn't like him saying anything about depression. She would never agree that that could be a
00:08:04
problem. >> As they left the clinic and headed onto the highway, Matt says Carrie had a
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meltdown >> and I'm at about 45 50 m an hour and she is hyperventilating and she attempts to
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open the car door um as we're driving down the road. [music] >> Why? She said she needed to get out and
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get some air. To get some air to get some air. >> He says he grabbed hold of her waistband
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[music] until he could pull off the highway. >> Did you [music] feel that those actions
00:08:34
indicated that she was trying to kill herself? >> I didn't think suicide. I thought she
00:08:39
just wanted fresh air and wasn't thinking. She lost it for a second. >> Later that week on Friday, April 7th,
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Carrie had a crucial interview for a new job at the junior high. >> What was her mood like? [music]
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Her movie that day was nervous. >> And after the interview, Matt says Carrie didn't feel well.
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>> She wasn't laying over like this. It was just tired. I'm tired. [music] That I
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mean, just just kind of exhausted. >> That evening, despite a queasy stomach, Matt says Carrie drank a wine cooler.
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>> She went to bed and off and on, dozing off and on, watching TV. I'm in bed with
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her, taking care of the kids. At 10:30 with the kids in bed, Matt says [music] Carrie asked him to gas up the car and
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rent a movie. >> And I thought, "It's late. All right, but I'll do it." You know, [music] if
00:09:28
your wife asks, you do what your wife asks. And so I got dressed and left the house a little after 11:00. Oh, it's
00:09:34
probably about 2 miles to the [music] first gas station that I could fill up at. Um, and got out, pumped the gas, um,
00:09:40
went up [music] to the movie place, rented the movie, and drove back home. When he returned around midnight, Matt
00:09:46
says he found [music] the bedroom door was locked. >> And so I go in and I get the little
00:09:50
screwdriver that can fit in there and I pop the button, [music] open the door. She was naked in bed. And I call her
00:09:56
name and she doesn't respond. >> At 12:01 a.m., he called for help. >> And as I'm calling 911, I'm deciding
00:10:03
[music] I don't want them to see her naked, so I put her clothes on her. Matt says at the same time he was on [music]
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the phone, he was also moving Carrie to the floor where he began CPR. >> She's not breathing. What are you
00:10:15
thinking has happened to her? >> I I wasn't processing at any point in time [music] what had happened to her.
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>> Paramedics arrived within minutes, but it was too late. Carrie was dead. Police
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found an empty bottle of Unisome next to a note. I'm so sorry. It read. I love you, Matt. [music] I want to give
00:10:35
Cassidy a hug. I need to feel her again. [music] It was all the evidence the small town police needed.
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>> The detective that night pulled me into the um kitchen. He goes, "Well, she took
00:10:47
her own life. There's a note. There's [music] pills. There's no signs of struggle. It's pretty obvious what
00:10:52
happened." And and that point my heart sunk. I didn't I couldn't believe it. That was the first
00:10:59
time for sure that's what they claimed it to be. We were truly in shock. It was almost
00:11:06
like we were in a trance. And all I kept thinking about, all Jim kept thinking about was that we didn't have a
00:11:16
daughter. Our daughter was gone. >> The county doesn't have a medical examiner, so police just described the
00:11:22
case over the phone to a justice of the peace who determined that Carrie Baker died from an overdose of unisome. No
00:11:30
autopsy needed. 2 days later, she was buried. And that might have been the end of this
00:11:42
story if not for a group of tenacious women. We wanted to clear Carrie's name. Matt was going around talking about what
00:11:51
a depressed, suicidal person she was. We knew she wasn't. >> She was just a very alive person all the
00:12:15
time. >> And those girls, she had them going. You really miss her, don't you, Jim?
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>> As out of character as suicide seemed, Carrie Baker's parents, Jim and Linda Dulan, say they had no choice but to
00:12:38
believe it. >> We kept trying to convince ourselves what other alternative was there. The
00:12:46
idea that Matt could have taken her life was more horrible. But that's exactly what Linda's family
00:12:56
thinks. >> He killed her. >> Linda's sisters, Nancy, Kay, and Jennifer, and niece Lindsay.
00:13:05
>> I immediately thought Matt did it. >> You believe that? >> Oh, yeah. With all my heart. Carrie
00:13:11
loved her life. She loved her family. She would never have left those girls. From the start, they tried to convince
00:13:19
Linda that Carrie's death needed to be investigated. >> She said, "Drop it." And we all just
00:13:25
said, "Okay, okay." And then we all walked out together to the cars and we said, "That's not happening."
00:13:32
>> He could always say she called, you know, but no. >> Linda's younger sister, Nancy, says
00:13:37
Matt's story about Carrie's last day simply didn't match anyone else's. >> He had said that day Carrie was sick.
00:13:46
You don't believe that? No. >> No. People that saw her said she wasn't. >> And would a sick, tired Carrie ask Matt
00:13:54
to put gas in the car and rent a movie? >> That makes sense. >> No. At 11:00. >> And they certainly don't believe that if
00:14:03
Carrie did commit suicide that she would ever be found in the nude. Nothing seemed to make sense. Not even the
00:14:11
choice of the sleeping aid unisome. She actually took a generic brand. She called it a sleepy time.
00:14:17
>> She said her sleepy time pill. >> They also say that Carrie's unhappiness in the last weeks of her life wasn't
00:14:24
about Cassidy. [music] According to her former grief counselor, Carrie was worried about herself.
00:14:33
>> And she said, "I saw Carrie in therapy. She was afraid that her husband was having an affair and afraid that he was
00:14:39
trying to kill her." That was just three days before Carrie died. And there's more. Linda's sisters began
00:14:52
sharing secrets they had kept from her all these years. >> I didn't realize that no one in the
00:14:58
family had liked him. [music] >> They began to tell Linda about Matt's odd and even borish behavior. He had
00:15:06
come up behind my daughter and made some just really inappropriate sexual comment
00:15:14
to her. >> There were several unsettling incidents like in 1996 when Carrie lived with Matt
00:15:21
in this complex. Deianne Avalo says the preacher tried to pick up her 16-year-old daughter.
00:15:29
>> He asked her, "Have you ever been kissed by a boy?" She said, "Yes." and he just
00:15:35
suddenly grabbed her and kissed her right on the lips. >> At one church youth center, Matt was
00:15:41
warned about his behavior with young women. He never seemed to stay long at any job.
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>> Every time he'd moved from a job, I would think I he did something to someone.
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>> And there was this woman, Laura Wilson, met Matt in 1991. top first one >> when they were both student athletic
00:16:03
trainers at Baylor University. One day she says they were cleaning an empty locker room when he suddenly
00:16:12
grabbed her. He lifts me up off the floor and he sits on one of the benches with me on his lap
00:16:20
and that's when he begins running his hand up my thigh and between my legs. >> Matt denies ever touching Laura.
00:16:28
Instead, he says he inadvertently scared her that day by turning out the lights.
00:16:34
>> Did you ever assault or harass any of these women? >> I did not. And >> none.
00:16:40
>> None. >> So, if these women say you did, they are lying. >> Correct. >> I wanted Matt to be okay. I wanted him
00:16:50
to be a good man, but it didn't add up. Nothing adds up. Linda finally began to see Matt through
00:17:00
her sister's eyes, but persuading the local police to reopen the investigation into Carrie's death was going to be far
00:17:08
more difficult. >> They didn't do their job and they didn't take us serious. And I don't think we
00:17:14
were asking them to believe that Carrie was murdered. We just wanted an investigation.
00:17:22
>> The police had concluded that Carrie committed suicide. Only a few photographs were taken at the
00:17:28
scene. The only evidence collected was the unison bottle, the remaining pills, and the type suicide note. Why do you
00:17:37
think the police were so willing to accept this as a suicide immediately? >> He's a pastor.
00:17:41
>> He's a preacher. >> So, what did you all do? >> We began an investigation. >> All of you?
00:17:47
>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Calling themselves Charlie's Angels. >> Linda was Charlie [music] and we were
00:17:54
the angels. [laughter] They began making phone calls. >> Did you talk to Kay or Jennifer?
00:18:01
>> Following [music] every lead and retracing Matt's movements the night Carrie died.
00:18:08
>> We weren't going to give up. Somebody was going to listen to us. >> Their biggest [music] discovery came
00:18:14
unexpectedly when Linda took a look at Matt and Car's [music] cell phone records. And before I
00:18:22
opened it up, I just said a little prayer and I just said, "Okay, God, help me out here." I said, "Give me a sign."
00:18:29
And I opened up the phone bill and oh my gosh, >> the record showed 10 days after Carrie
00:18:37
died, someone began using her cell phone. >> And who was using it? >> Vanessa Bulls. Matt had given it to
00:18:44
Vanessa. Vanessa Bulls, a young woman who attended Matt's church. Weren't you talking a lot to this young woman?
00:18:55
>> We often did. We did. We did often talk. >> And weren't you interested in her?
00:18:59
>> I never thought of a relationship with her at all. That never was anything in
00:19:03
the back of my mind. >> But phone records show almost 1700 minutes of calls between Matt and
00:19:09
Vanessa in just 10 days. Jim had highlighted on there and it looked like he got on the phone as soon as he took
00:19:17
the girls to school and stayed on the phone with her most of the day. It was crazy.
00:19:24
I needed a friend. I needed somebody to look me in the face and say, "I'm sorry you lost your wife."
00:19:32
>> But the records show Matt began calling Vanessa before Carrie died. >> Did you have an affair with Vanessa?
00:19:39
>> Oh, no I did not. There was never any relationship at all other than a friendship.
00:19:44
>> Vanessa told the police they did begin dating, but only after [music] Car's death.
00:19:51
>> This is a man who has [music] a very, very dark, evil side. He was praying on other women and then
00:20:00
finally he found one who it looked like something might go somewhere with. And I believe Carrie was
00:20:09
in the way. Armed with a possible motive, Linda hired Bill Johnston, a dogged former
00:20:20
federal prosecutor, and his team of investigators. >> All of a sudden, all the shock I'd been
00:20:26
feeling, all this numbness, it was just like it just washed right off of me. And
00:20:31
I thought, "Okay, Linda, we're going to find out what's going on here." And after that we went into battle mode.
00:20:55
3 months after Carrie Baker was laid to rest, her parents had her body removed from the grave and autopsied.
00:21:06
What made [music] you decide to exume your daughter's body? That had to be a tough decision, wasn't it? [sighs]
00:21:14
>> Oh, yes. Because we needed that information. >> Linda Dulan was determined to find out
00:21:20
how her daughter died. Although the authorities ruled it a suicide, she suspected the Matt Baker was
00:21:27
responsible. >> He's indicated he'll talk to anyone and it'd be nice if he talked to us, too.
00:21:32
>> Sure. Attorney Bill Johnston and his investigators found much of the evidence
00:21:36
troubling. [music] >> We never heard of a type suicide note. At least it needed a signature.
00:21:42
And on the table [music] next to the note were pins. Rather convenient, you know, if someone
00:21:48
wanted to sign it. >> They found more disturbing evidence in the computer network that serves the
00:21:53
entire youth center where Matt worked as a chaplain. One month before Carrie died, he began conducting online
00:22:00
searches for overdose on sleeping pills and on the prescription drug ambient. Even though Carrie didn't have a
00:22:08
prescription for that drug, Matt's explanation, >> it scared me that she was taking that
00:22:14
much sleeping medicine to get to sleep at night. It took a lot to wake her up in the morning sometimes.
00:22:18
>> But if you were concerned, wouldn't you mention it to her doctor? At that point,
00:22:22
I didn't think it was necessary to tell the doctor because I thought she was getting it under control.
00:22:30
>> When investigators asked to examine Matt's actual computer that was on his desk, they discovered it wasn't his.
00:22:38
Sometime in midJune, when the search for evidence got underway, someone had replaced Matt's desktop computer with
00:22:46
his secretaries, and Matt's had vanished. And why would anyone want to take that computer?
00:22:52
>> I have no clue. I don't know why. >> Was there something on that computer you
00:22:55
didn't want anyone to see? >> Oh, no. There's I mean, absolutely not. >> Investigators also have no idea whether
00:23:03
there was anything incriminating on Matt's home computer. Matt says the hard drive crashed and is no longer working.
00:23:12
>> It's just a coincidence that the hard drive on your home computer is fried and
00:23:16
the computer from work disappeared. Just a coincidence. >> Computers crash all the time.
00:23:24
>> The more Bill Johnston heard, the more he was convinced that Linda Doulan's doubts about her son-in-law might be
00:23:31
right. >> There's more to this guy than just some guy that's preaching on Sunday. There's
00:23:36
a dark side here. >> Do you believe Matt Baker is a dangerous man? >> Oh, sure. You bet. He's dangerous.
00:23:43
Johnston believes that because when Carrie told her grief counselor that she thought Matt was trying to kill her,
00:23:49
Carrie confided that she found a mysterious bottle of crushed pills in Matt's briefcase.
00:23:55
>> He gave her a story. Oh, that's from the kids at the center. The kids don't take
00:24:01
their meds and they spit them out. That must be what that is. >> Matt told 48 Hours a very different
00:24:07
story. He said there were pills, but they were carries and had never been in his briefcase.
00:24:14
>> She comes out with a bottle of pills and she looks at me and she says, "I found
00:24:16
these in there." >> Was that bottle of of crush pills in your briefcase? >> I don't know where she found it. I never
00:24:22
had it. I've I never saw it before. She had it in her hands >> and the pills are now gone.
00:24:30
You know what Matt says? Matt says she threw out the crush pills. That Matt offered to have them tested and she put
00:24:37
them down the sink. >> There you go. The only person that could refute it is not here.
00:24:44
>> I take it you don't believe it. >> Not for a second. No. >> As Johnston's suspicions mounted, he
00:24:52
convinced his [music] friend, Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon, to look at the case. Cthon 2 suspected foul play and
00:25:01
became frustrated by the faulty police investigation. >> What kind of evidence should have been
00:25:06
taken in that night? >> There was a computer printer there. There were uh bottles of alcohol there
00:25:13
and of course an autopsy would have been a tremendous uh assistance to the investigation, but it wasn't ordered.
00:25:20
>> How much pressure did you have to put on the Hua Police Department to take a new
00:25:23
look at this case? >> It was considerable pressure. In September 2006, the results of
00:25:33
Carrie's autopsy done three months after her body was embalmed and buried finally
00:25:38
came in. And still no proof of how Carrie died. No remnants of pills were found in Car's stomach, but there was
00:25:48
evidence of ambient in her muscle tissue, the same sleeping drug Matt researched on the internet. Bill
00:25:56
Johnston points to the photos taken the night Carrie died which showed discoloration around Car's nose and
00:26:03
lips. An indication he says she may have been suffocated. >> There was an slight abrasion to her nose
00:26:10
consistent with a rough pillow or some object that maybe has fibers that scrape across.
00:26:19
The court is of the opinion. >> There are enough questions [music] that 18 months after Carrie Baker died, the
00:26:26
justice of the piece declared her death was no longer classified as suicide. >> Carolyn Baker's manner and cause of
00:26:33
death shall be recorded as undetermined. >> The police now had a possible homicide
00:26:39
on their hands. On September 21st, 2007, the former [music] pastor was arrested and charged with murder.
00:26:49
>> I guess the the foolishness in my part was if you never do anything wrong, you won't get
00:26:56
arrested. >> Matt posted bond and returned home to his daughters. >> And I'm just waiting for the day that I
00:27:03
can grieve with my children, the loss of my wife and their mother. He says [music] he is the victim of insidious
00:27:08
innuendo and wild speculation. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Have you been able to get work? Not
00:27:16
after the arrest. Not after the [music] arrest. >> And Matt has found a powerful ally.
00:27:22
>> I think Matt Baker is being railroaded. >> Like Bill Johnston, Guy James Gray was
00:27:28
once a highprofile prosecutor. The more that I know about Matt, the less I believe that he is the type to take
00:27:36
somebody's life. >> Gray [music] says Carrie's despair is spelled out in her own heartbreaking
00:27:44
entries she wrote in her Bible [music] after her daughter died. >> This paragraph is about how good heaven
00:27:51
is. [music] And then she writes out beside it, I want to go with Cassidy. Gray also says he can explain some of
00:27:59
the seemingly incriminating circumstances. >> What about the abrasion on the nose and
00:28:05
possibly on her lip? >> Well, the first thing the emergency people did when they got there was put
00:28:10
one of these artificial CPR deals over her mouth. >> But Bill Johnson says that the abrasion
00:28:17
had to have been left there before Carrie died and that Matt is the one who caused it. According to Johnston, the
00:28:25
most damaging evidence comes [music] from Matt Baker himself. People did say she was very upset with you. Why was she
00:28:33
so upset with you? It had to be somebody's fault and I have to be the fall guy for it.
00:28:52
Facing murder charges in Waco, Matt Baker retreated to his childhood home in Kurville, Texas, where his old friends
00:29:00
were outraged at the accusations. >> I thought that he was the least likely to be charged with murder.
00:29:09
>> Matt is a sweet, loving, caring, tender-hearted person. >> It just is inconsistent with his
00:29:14
character. >> That's also how Jill Hots, Carrie Baker's close friend, once felt about
00:29:19
Matt. He was a good friend. I mean, he taught my son to tie his shoes. >> But today, she no longer believes in
00:29:29
Matt, nor the story he tells about Carrie. >> And I know she didn't take her own life.
00:29:36
Someone with that kind of a zest for life, that kind of fight for life. She's not going to take her own life, and she
00:29:41
didn't do that. >> Why does Jill suspect Matt? because of a conversation she had with Carrie just
00:29:48
days before her death. >> She she she was very very upset. >> And when you say upset, crying. She's
00:29:54
crying extremely hard on the phone. And I said, "Carrie, what what's wrong?" And
00:29:59
she said, "I think Matt is is seeing someone else." And you know how you have those moments
00:30:06
in your life that you wish that she could just redo the whole thing? And I tried to reassure that Matt loved
00:30:15
her and he wouldn't do that. [snorts] >> And Carrie told Jill that her preacher husband did something far worse. He
00:30:25
blamed her for their child's death. >> She said that Matt accused her of praying [music] for Cassidy not to have
00:30:32
to suffer anymore. And he said that God answered Car's prayer instead of his prayer, which was [music] for Cassidy to
00:30:39
live to be an old lady and to have a full life. >> Carrie said that Matt blamed her
00:30:47
>> for Cassid's death. >> Yes. >> And how did she take that? >> Extremely hard. >> No, I never blamed her for the death.
00:30:53
She misunderstood what I had said. I said that it hurt me that she felt her her prayer was answered and mine wasn't.
00:31:02
Judge for yourself. Matt sent Carrie this email just days before she spoke with Jill. I know deep down I hold a
00:31:10
grudge against God and you for him answering your prayer and not mine. He wrote in some ways I do hold you to
00:31:19
blame for her death. >> She said that that was the worst thing that she's ever heard and she didn't
00:31:23
think that they could ever recover from that. The day after Carrie confided in Jill was when Carrie told her counselor
00:31:30
she thought Matt was trying to kill her. The counselor confronted Matt at Carrie's [music] funeral.
00:31:37
>> What was your reaction? >> And I said, "What? Well, wait, wait." And I'm like, "What's going on here?"
00:31:42
That was just kind of just completely rattled everything that was going on at that time.
00:31:48
>> Matt denies he had any reason to kill Carrie. He denies cheating on her. And remember earlier he had insisted that
00:31:56
the woman he spent so much time with, Vanessa Bulls, was only a friend. >> I never thought of a relationship with
00:32:03
her at all. That never was anything in the back of my mind. >> You asked her parents whether you could
00:32:08
date her. >> Yes. Later in the summer. >> So you were interested in Vanessa. You
00:32:14
did want to date Vanessa. >> Yes. During the summer, absolutely I did. According to Matt, Car's severe
00:32:19
anxiety was apparent to everyone who saw her in those days leading up to her death. But we couldn't find anyone to
00:32:27
confirm that. On the contrary, even her close friend Jill says that when she last spoke to Carrie, Carrie seemed
00:32:34
happier and said things had improved with Matt. >> The day before she died, she was
00:32:39
completely elated and she said that, you know, we're trying to get everything patched back together. So, she was she
00:32:44
was very hopeful, very future oriented. >> Those who saw Carrie on her last day say
00:32:49
her spirits were much higher than earlier in the week. Her friend Todd Munzy says she looked forward to the
00:32:56
prospect of a new job. >> She told me she had a great interview. Was so excited about it and yeah, we we
00:33:02
had a good high five right there in the hallway. But that very night, Carrie died. And her parents' attorney, Bill
00:33:09
Johnston, says there are serious inconsistencies in Matt's story. >> Unfortunately for Matt Baker, he didn't
00:33:18
buy enough time for himself. He should have painted a couple hours of alibi. >> Matt is very specific about what time he
00:33:25
left Carrie to put gas in the car and get movies. >> I remember when I was getting dressed
00:33:30
and ready to leave, the clock said 11:11. Yet he seems unclear about Carrie's state when he left.
00:33:38
>> We talked about everything that I was supposed to get and I left. >> She was awake.
00:33:42
>> She was awake. >> She was awake when you >> correct >> when you left. >> Oh, yeah. We we had a conversation. I
00:33:46
ran, you know, leaned down and kissed her on the forehead before I left. >> But listen to what he said to us two
00:33:51
months later. >> And she was talking. She said goodbye to you. >> Um, she had rolled back over and gone
00:33:56
back to sleep. So when I left, she was asleep. And remember how Matt says he [music] first found out that Carrie
00:34:01
killed herself? >> The police officer brings me the note and that was my that was the first
00:34:06
thought at that point [music] in time. She took her own life. >> Yet he had clearly read the note when he
00:34:12
called the 911 operator. >> I think my wife just committed suicide. >> Her lips are blue hands are are are cold
00:34:20
and there's a note that says I'm sorry. Basically, >> you read the note. You had said to the
00:34:25
operator. She says I'm sorry. But I did not read the full note. I saw the note, but as I picked up the phone, I saw it
00:34:31
there, but I did not take the time to read the note. >> The police told Matt the cause of death
00:34:36
was obvious. >> There's a note. There's pills. >> It was all too obvious, says attorney
00:34:42
Bill Johnston. >> Here's some wine coolers to match the story. They were drinking a wine cooler.
00:34:49
And the note then is I just have to say self- serving. Matt, I'm sorry. Oh, Matt, take care of the kids. you know,
00:34:56
not critical of him in any way. >> Johnston also points out signs of levidity on Car's body, the pooling of
00:35:05
blood that happens after death. An indication, he says, that Carrie had been dead far longer than the 40 or so
00:35:12
minutes that Matt claims he was away. She had to ingest something that made her sleepy, then unconscious, then
00:35:23
killed her, and she had to quit breathing. Heart had to stop, and then the ledity had to begin.
00:35:29
>> And he is not the only one who questions Matt's [music] story. What parts of Matt
00:35:34
Baker's story bother you? >> Just the time frame. That that's really what bothers me the most. Steven Kh, a
00:35:42
toxicologist 48 Hours Consulted, says that if Carrie were alive when Matt said he left the house, her body would not be
00:35:49
cold to the touch. As both Matt and a paramedic reported, >> being cold in an hour is non-existent
00:35:56
unless you're killed in the Arctic or in an ice box. >> But KH cautions, there simply isn't
00:36:02
enough evidence to say how and why Carrie died. Do you believe that this is a suicide?
00:36:10
No, but I cannot determine the cause of death and wouldn't certify it as anything but undetermined.
00:36:18
>> Matt, did you kill your wife? Did you have anything to do with her death that
00:36:22
night? >> No, I did not. Was I the perfect person? Did I do everything correct? No. But I
00:36:28
didn't hurt my wife. I loved my wife. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with
00:36:33
her. Matt had been arrested and charged with murder, but the DA had not yet brought
00:36:40
the case to a grand jury. That's a requirement under Texas law for a murder case to go to trial. How easy is it to
00:36:49
actually take someone to trial for murder when even the coroner can't determine that that a murder occurred?
00:36:56
>> Extremely difficult. Matt's attorney, Guy James Gray, was [music] determined to get the charges
00:37:01
dropped, and he had plenty of support from Matt's friends. >> I think it should be [music] thrown out.
00:37:07
>> I just don't feel that having the spirit of God in you that you can do something
00:37:12
like this, I just don't think you could do it. [music] >> [music] >> I have the people that support me.
00:37:42
I have my family. >> I have my daughters. As the second anniversary of Carrie's death approached, [music] Matt Baker and
00:37:52
his daughters were still living with his parents in Kurville. >> Oh, there goes Mama Cat.
00:37:58
>> His relationship with Vanessa Bulls was over. His life in limbo. >> Wait, no. No, no, no. Open it all the
00:38:09
way. >> Do you think you'll be indicted? >> I I don't know. >> Wait for dad to help you.
00:38:15
>> I don't know where I go from here. It was falling apart and >> that's why there's teeth marks in it.
00:38:19
[laughter] >> There is such an unknown of what tomorrow holds. >> While murder charges against Matt are
00:38:26
pending in Texas in order to go to trial, the DA also has to get a grand jury indictment
00:38:34
within [music] 180 days. >> Are you worried that there just isn't enough evidence to actually take him to
00:38:42
trial? >> No. >> No, we're not. Time runs out. On [music] March 25th, 2008, all criminal charges are dropped
00:38:53
against Matt Baker. >> Was it a murder? Was it a suicide? That was the major question in the case.
00:39:01
>> Assistant DA Crawford Long. >> We felt we didn't have the evidence to go forward with a criminal indictment at
00:39:07
that time. They went through these facts just like I did and they're simply not sufficient
00:39:14
facts to establish a murder. >> It is a tremendous relief. [music] The criminal part is in the past and
00:39:22
that's a tremendous blessing. >> Justice was not served. >> Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon is
00:39:31
disappointed but not surprised. It is frustrating, but the evidence was there. Every turn,
00:39:39
we were we were turned away. >> This is a man you believed killed his wife and he's walking free.
00:39:50
>> Well, you know, Aaron, it happens every day. And in this case, something went arry.
00:39:58
>> This is Bill. But Bill Johnston knows there's no statute of limitations on murder. So he's not giving up
00:40:06
>> because sooner or later I think that criminal justice system will deal with with Matt Baker. I just believe it's
00:40:12
going to happen. >> The battle is far from over. Linda and her team are pursuing [music] Matt in
00:40:19
civil court. >> Civil case >> suing him for wrongful death. They allow different evidence and civil
00:40:27
cases and that one's more of a problem for him now. >> I'm going to meet with Bill,
00:40:32
>> especially with Car's mother and her angels on the case. >> We are going [music] to continue to do
00:40:38
what we have been doing and that is we are going to seek justice [music] and I believe with every fiber in my being
00:40:47
that we will have it. But in the year that follows, tremendous changes take place. For Linda, there's a
00:40:56
physical transformation and an emotional one. As Carrie's case takes a dramatic turn.
00:41:08
What changed things? >> The thing that changed things was Vanessa Bull's testimony.
00:41:20
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're giving this matter to be the truth? >> Matt Baker will never get away with
00:41:25
murder. He will pay. >> Grand jury indicted Baker. >> They are indicting Matt Baker for
00:41:31
murder. I remember just calling Chinese. I was overwhelmed. How important is Vanessa BS? She's key. He counted on her
00:41:40
keeping her mouth shut. [music] That was his life full of dirty little secrets. you really need to turn
00:41:46
yourself in or I'm going to tell what you did. And he said, "You better not do that.
00:42:04
[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> My name is Linda [music] Dulan and
00:42:58
Carrie Baker is my daughter. I [music] believe that her life was taken by her husband, Matt.
00:43:23
>> [music] >> I don't believe that a person should be able to walk free after he's murdered
00:43:30
someone. And this someone is my daughter. And it's time that we [music] should have been grieving for our
00:43:37
daughter that we've been fighting for a cause. >> [music] >> a former pastor in Kurville behind bars
00:43:55
tonight [music] accused of murdering his wife more than a year ago. >> You've got a man who's extremely
00:44:01
concerned about [music] his public persona. And it's very important to him to be viewed as the perfect father, the
00:44:07
perfect husband, the perfect Christian, the perfect preacher. But in reality, he lives his [music]
00:44:14
day-to-day life very differently. >> I am Matt Baker, and I have been called a cheater, an adulterer, a murderer, a
00:44:24
liar. And that's the farthest [music] thing from the truth. But authorities finally have enough evidence to say Matt
00:44:31
Baker gave his wife Carrie Baker a lethal cocktail of sleeping pills and alcohol to her nose and bruises to her
00:44:38
lips indicate [music] she was also smothered with a pillow. >> Matt Baker was very good at hiding
00:44:44
[music] his dark side. In her gut, she was figuring it out, but she didn't listen [music] to those instincts.
00:44:54
>> How could they think this of me? They know I'm not capable of hurting [music]
00:44:58
Carrie. They know that. I don't believe she committed suicide. There's too much about the staged crime scene to believe
00:45:04
that >> Vanessa Bulls was a key to this whole thing. Uh she [music] was maybe the the
00:45:10
missing link. She was the quote other woman. Murders have occurred for less. >> Did he ever send you song lyrics?
00:45:18
>> Yes, he sent me song [music] lyrics to the song Dirty Little Secret. It went um
00:45:22
I'll keep you my dirty little secret. Don't [music] tell anyone or you'll be just another regret.
00:45:33
>> You start connecting the dots and you start getting a picture of what was really going on here. My name is Matt
00:45:38
Coffin and at the [music] time of Carrie Baker's death, I was a sergeant in the Texas Rangers.
00:45:43
>> Matt Baker has been behind these walls, but today he was released from jail. >> At that point, the investigation was
00:45:49
stymied. something else was going to have to cause the do the next domino to fall.
00:45:54
>> Doesn't matter how long it takes. We're in it till the end. You can't hide dirty little secrets
00:46:10
forever. I'm Aaron Morardi. Dirty little secrets. >> [music] >> Carrie [music] was a very good
00:46:54
minister's wife. Faith was very [music] important in her life. Linda and Jim Dulan are convinced that
00:47:06
their daughter Carrie was murdered by the man they [music] once embraced as a son-in-law, Baptist preacher Matt Baker.
00:47:16
>> This was a man who was capable of the ultimate evil. >> Matt has always claimed that his wife
00:47:23
committed suicide, just as he told the 911 operator a little after midnight on April 8th, 2006.
00:47:32
It was 911. Do you have an emergency? Uh, >> yes. I think my wife just committed
00:47:35
suicide. >> He said he went out to get a video and gas for his car. When he arrived home,
00:47:42
he found his wife lifeless on the bed, an empty bottle of unisome, and a suicide note on the table.
00:47:50
>> I felt to see if she was breathing. She was [music] not. I shook her. She didn't
00:47:54
answer. >> Their daughters, Kenzie, nine, and Grace 5, were asleep in nearby bedrooms. Matt
00:48:01
says it was because of another daughter, Cassidy, that Carrie took her own life.
00:48:06
She never stopped grieving for Cassidy, who had a brain tumor and died 7 years earlier.
00:48:15
>> That that was a tough time for her. >> Every year, >> did it get better as the years went on?
00:48:20
>> It had never got better for her. But Carrie's mom and her family did not believe that Carrie would have abandoned
00:48:29
her living children. And that suicide note, it was typed, even the signature. Linda grew more suspicious when she
00:48:38
discovered that there were numerous phone calls between Matt and a young parishioner named Vanessa Bulls. [music]
00:48:47
>> We talked a lot, but I talked to a lot of friends, so it's not >> Did you have an affair with Vanessa? Oh,
00:48:52
no I did not. There was never any relationship at all other than a friendship. >> Matt certainly didn't seem like he had
00:49:00
anything to hide. He voluntarily spoke with the Huitt police a few months after Carrie died.
00:49:06
>> And so since then it has grown into a good friendship, you know, and and I know for a fact my
00:49:13
in-laws don't like that. and he wasn't shy about airing his grievances against the Doulans who had been pushing the
00:49:21
police to investigate. >> I think they're mad that they think I'm moving on. I guess they think I'm moving
00:49:27
on too quickly. >> Matt patiently answered every question they posed. >> She was laying in the bed.
00:49:33
>> Mhm. >> Okay. Was she clothed? >> She was not. She had her She had her I'm trying to remember. No, she was naked.
00:49:42
The police also questioned Vanessa. >> Like I said, you're not under arrest and this doesn't mean that you're
00:49:48
>> I'm sorry. This is just scary. >> I know. I know. >> Who denied any affair with Matt?
00:49:53
>> Did you ever meet him romantically? >> No. >> Never. Okay. >> And that, it seemed, was the end of the
00:49:59
police investigation. Linda was frustrated and felt the only way she'd know what happened to Carrie
00:50:06
was to find out herself. So she hired attorney Bill Johnson and his team of investigators.
00:50:13
>> We became convinced that he'd done it. >> It seemed like that every expert we
00:50:17
talked to told us that it could not have happened the way Matt Baker said it happened.
00:50:25
>> Matt said he was only gone [music] for about 40 minutes, but Car's body showed
00:50:30
signs of levidity, the pooling of blood after death. The experts said it was unlikely that Carrie could have ingested
00:50:37
[music] drugs, died, and reached that state in such a short period of time. Moreover, records salvaged from Matt's
00:50:46
workplace server were incriminating. >> We got to parts of it that showed he had
00:50:53
searched terms like overdose and death by sleeping pills. >> Johnston felt the police dropped the
00:51:00
ball, but he was hamstrung. There was no autopsy and the death was classified as
00:51:06
suicide. >> There was a guy who was holding a Bible on Sunday telling everybody how to live
00:51:14
and he'd murdered his wife. Every minute that went by, Baker was closer to getting away with it and he knew it.
00:51:24
>> Johnston turned to Matt Cawthon, an old friend who was a member of the Texas Rangers, the statewide law enforcement
00:51:31
team. Cthon agreed unofficially to help. >> The next step in my mind was to obtain
00:51:39
records from telephones, any other type of records that that we might need. >> To get those documents, Cthon needed the
00:51:46
district attorney's help. He was turned down flat. >> I could not understand why I could not
00:51:52
have the basic tools that I needed to continue with this. Cawthon persisted and finally [music]
00:51:59
convinced the authorities to conduct an autopsy 3 months after Carrie died. It was too [music] late to test for drugs
00:52:07
in her blood. But they did find unisome in her muscle tissue along with traces of ambient, a drug Carrie was [music]
00:52:15
not known to take. The manner of death was changed from suicide to undetermined. [music]
00:52:23
In September 2007, a year and a half after Carrie died, the police now felt they had a homicide on their hands.
00:52:33
Matt Baker [music] was arrested and charged with murder. He was released on bond thanks to [music] powerhouse
00:52:41
attorney Guy James Gray, who took the case pro bono. >> I only take the cases that I believe
00:52:47
[music] in with all my heart, and this is one of them. And Gray says this is an [music] injustice.
00:52:54
>> You can't go forward with a murder case unless you can establish that it is a
00:52:59
homicide. So you have to establish [music] cause of death. And that forensically is just not possible in
00:53:06
this case. 6 months after Matt Baker was arrested, his fate changed again dramatically.
00:53:25
>> Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for our food, for our family, for our friends. Amen.
00:53:30
>> Assistant District Attorney Crawford Long had decided it was too risky to take Matt to trial. So, he dropped the
00:53:38
murder charges. >> The evidence was too speculative. Couldn't get beyond a reasonable doubt
00:53:43
with that. It's not was it a crime and who committed it, but was it a crime at all?
00:53:49
But Matt wasn't off the hook. Carrie's mother, Linda Doulan, had decided to sue him for wrongful death.
00:53:57
>> I'm angry. And all he's doing is making us more determined to uncover the truth.
00:54:05
>> We've got a guy on the street that's a killer. And I wasn't going to let a guy
00:54:10
like that outsmart me or outplay me. Linda's attorney, Bill Johnston, and his investigators were hoping any new
00:54:18
evidence they might dig up for the civil case would help rebuild a criminal one.
00:54:24
>> We have to try to do such a good job >> and have the evidence be so clear and so
00:54:28
strong that a prosecutor looking at it will say, "I can do that, too." >> And Johnston had an advantage.
00:54:36
>> Rolling around the record. >> In a civil case, he could depose Matt Baker under oath and on camera. He was
00:54:43
foolish enough to allow me to. >> Did you have a sexual relationship with any woman in the year
00:54:51
prior to Car's death other than Carrie? >> No. >> He could have played the Fifth
00:54:56
Amendment. While you have 911 on the phone, you're dressing or how long did it take to dress her back?
00:55:02
>> Uh, again, probably just seconds. Not very long at all. >> All right. He clearly described things
00:55:08
that were impossible. >> Do you think Matt Baker knows what he's up against? No.
00:55:13
>> Her up first like this toward me. >> He's used to conning people and having them do what he wants.
00:55:20
>> What Matt didn't anticipate was that Crawford Long and fellow prosecutor Susan Schaefer weren't giving up because
00:55:28
they too believed Matt killed Carrie. The problem was proving it. >> You get one bite at that apple and if
00:55:36
you get an aqu quiddle, it's over. All the evidence prosecutors had was circumstantial.
00:55:43
What they really wanted was the testimony of this woman, Vanessa Bulls, [music] whom they suspected was Matt's lover
00:55:52
before Carrie died. >> How important is Vanessa Bulls to this case? She's key. >> Key because prosecutors believed she
00:56:02
knew some of Matt's secrets. So far, Vanessa has had little to say to law enforcement.
00:56:10
>> I I don't mind talking to y'all, but this is, you know, taking time out of my
00:56:14
schedule. >> The only thing she admitted was that she dated Matt and only after Carrie died.
00:56:21
>> After after Yes. >> after >> after his wife passed away. >> After Okay. Okay.
00:56:27
>> Because I didn't think there was anything wrong. >> Okay. >> Did you believe her?
00:56:32
>> No. Prosecutors had the phone records and a jewelry store clerk who saw Matt and
00:56:38
Vanessa checking out wedding rings just weeks after Carrie died. >> I wanted a shot at her real bad.
00:56:46
>> Working with prosecutors was Abden Rodriguez, a savvy investigator with a reputation
00:56:53
for convincing the most reluctant witnesses to talk. >> That's one of my specialties.
00:57:02
Rodriguez carefully studied Vanessa's interview. >> Did you start to feel like he he was
00:57:07
kind of pursuing you a little bit? >> Um, I didn't really want to think that because he seemed happily married.
00:57:15
>> I could tell that you were lying. There was information there and I could tell
00:57:19
that that that she had, but she didn't want to give it up. >> And for good reason. Rodriguez knew
00:57:25
Vanessa had everything to lose if she admitted knowing anything about the crime.
00:57:31
>> Why don't y'all have then talk to Matt Baker? You know, >> I said we're going to have to break her.
00:57:37
>> Matt isn't talking with us anymore >> because she's the one that knows exactly
00:57:40
what took place here. >> But after interviewing her, [music] Vanessa was still holding back. So, the
00:57:47
prosecution gambled and subpoenaed her to testify before the grand jury. Was that a little risky?
00:57:54
>> We didn't have anything to lose. >> Crawford Long gave Vanessa immunity, promising not to use her testimony
00:58:03
against her. Abden Rodriguez added a warning. >> I know what you did. I know what you know.
00:58:13
>> And I said, you better tell the truth as I said, I'm going to be sitting there
00:58:16
[music] and if you pure yourself, said we will turn around and and charge you with it. But on the stand, Vanessa stuck
00:58:23
with her story until this question. >> I said, "Did Matt ever tell you anything about Carrie's death?" And she said,
00:58:33
"Yes." He said, "I killed her for you." My jaw probably dropped down on my chest.
00:58:42
>> Matt even told Vanessa how he did it. He told her that he had smothered her. >> Nearly 3 years after Carrie's death,
00:58:53
Crawford Long had all the proof he needed to finally indict Matt Baker. >> Oh my gosh.
00:59:00
>> It was unbelievable news for Linda Dulan. >> I remember just falling to my knees and
00:59:08
I was crying and I was overwhelmed. In March 2009, Matt Baker was rearrested and charged with Carrie's murder.
00:59:19
>> How do you wish to plead? >> Not guilty. >> And the state star witness, Vanessa
00:59:25
Bulls. >> I don't think she [music] stole everything. >> I know. I know. I mean, there's still
00:59:31
more. All right. >> The stakes are so high. >> Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please
00:59:49
be seated. >> This is what we had been working for, the criminal trial. Nearly 4 years after
00:59:57
claiming he found his wife dead, >> Harry's [music] last day of life was on Friday, April 7th, 2006. Matt Baker is
01:00:05
now on trial for murder. >> You'll hear Matt Baker say his wife has just committed suicide, that he's found
01:00:12
a note, but Matt has a variety of stories about what happened that night. >> Matt was a dangerous man. He had to be
01:00:20
stopped before he hurt someone else. >> Carrie's mother, Linda, is surrounded by
01:00:25
her family. >> To me, he looked smug. He looked [music] like he's going to get away with this.
01:00:33
You'll hear him repeatedly and consistently say, "He never had an affair with Vanessa Bulls." You're going
01:00:38
to hear from Vanessa Bulls. You're going to see her. >> Assistant District Attorney Susan
01:00:43
Schaefer promises the jury that they will meet the [music] other woman. >> She's going to tell you how Matt brought
01:00:49
her into their marital bed while Carrie was still alive. >> Matt has always denied that affair. So,
01:00:56
no one in the courtroom was quite prepared for what his defense attorney, Guy James Gray, had to say.
01:01:03
>> Matt Baker was in fact having an affair. >> I got fooled. Got fooled by Matt Baker.
01:01:10
>> When did you realize that Matt was lying about his involvement with Vanessa BS?
01:01:15
>> Roughly a month before the trial. Something [music] like that. >> How tough was that guy
01:01:19
>> for me? Pretty tough. >> Both of them lied to [music] their families. Both of them lied to the cops
01:01:26
and both of them lied to try [music] to cover up this affair. >> That doesn't mean Gray says that Matt
01:01:32
killed his wife. Instead, Gray goes on the attack and tells the jury that Carrie was in a precarious emotional
01:01:40
state. >> At the time of her death, she took a mixture of medicine. >> I was trying to steal myself for the
01:01:49
stories they were going to spin about Carrie. She used sleeping pills on a regular basis.
01:01:55
>> She wasn't there to defend herself and that broke my heart. >> Gray also zeros in on the lack of
01:02:03
evidence. >> You've got no physical evidence. [music] >> You will see a lot of suspicion.
01:02:08
>> You got no cause of death. >> You will see a lot of theory. >> You [music] can't even be really certain
01:02:13
that it was a murder. >> Was it a suicide? Was it a murder? I describe it as the most difficult case
01:02:19
I've ever prosecuted. Assistant DA Crawford Long expects to get help from a surprising witness.
01:02:27
>> It's all the truth. [music] Everything that is from me is the truth. >> Matt Baker himself. Matt was unusually
01:02:35
talkative in the years before [music] his trial. >> You're not nervous about talking. If it
01:02:40
ever goes to trial, something [music] you might say here could be used against you.
01:02:44
>> And and if it is, then you deal with it at the time. >> And that time is now. Matt's
01:02:50
contradictions and lies are [music] coming back to haunt him. >> She was awake, >> correct?
01:02:57
>> She was talking and she said goodbye to you. >> When I left, she was asleep. >> While a defendant can't be forced to
01:03:03
testify, everything Matt said already can be used against him at trial. There are interviews with 48 hours.
01:03:12
>> Did you have an affair with Vanessa? >> Oh, no, I did not. >> Civil depositions. So, I proceeded to
01:03:17
talk to 911 operator as I put her clothes on her >> and his statement to police.
01:03:22
>> I knew she was depressed. I knew she was down. >> Matt's claim that Carrie was a
01:03:26
despondent, [music] dysfunctional parent is disputed by witness. >> To me, she never seemed better
01:03:33
>> after witness. [music] >> To me, she seemed excited. >> Even her grief counselor.
01:03:37
>> You did not feel that she was suicidal. Is that right? >> That's right. [music]
01:03:42
>> Okay. Stay call Linda Dan. You solemnly swear the testimony you give in this matter
01:03:47
will be. >> Three days into the trial, Carrie's mom, Linda Dulan, finally comes face to face
01:03:53
with a man she is convinced [music] killed her daughter. >> I am I'm sorry. Mother of Carrie.
01:04:02
>> Do Do you need to take him in? >> No, I'm okay. I I apologize. >> I [music] had this inner dialogue with
01:04:09
myself, telling myself to get it together. Linda testifies that after her daughter died, Carrie's grief counselor
01:04:16
told her that Carrie had found crushed pills in Matt's briefcase. Carrie feared he was going to harm her. Linda later
01:04:24
confronted Matt. >> He told me that clearly some youth had found his briefcase and spit the pills
01:04:32
in there so that they wouldn't have to take them. And that he reported this to security. security at the youth center
01:04:42
where Matt worked. >> Were you able to make any determination that it was reported?
01:04:47
>> It was not reported. [music] >> And there's Matt's claim that in the time it took paramedics to [music]
01:04:56
arrive, around 4 minutes, he managed to dress Carrie in her shirt and panties. >> No, no, no. She's not breathing at all.
01:05:03
No pulse or anything. >> Get her to the floor. >> Oh my. >> And perform CPR. You're going to do it
01:05:09
fast and hard 400 times. >> All while cradling the phone on his shoulder. Do you believe that he is
01:05:15
moving her at all while he's on that 911 call? >> I don't even think he's in the room.
01:05:20
>> Pictures taken the night [music] of Carrie's death also contradict Matt's story.
01:05:24
>> Would you draw where she was on the bed? >> He told investigators that he found
01:05:29
Car's body with both arms [music] stretched out flat on the bed. He actually drew a diagram of how he
01:05:36
claimed her body [music] to be >> on her back. Slightly at an angle. >> Slightly at an angle.
01:05:39
>> There's no way. No way. >> The proof, crime scene photos which show [music] an uneven pooling of blood or
01:05:47
levidity in Carrie's arms. The fact there was more levidity on her left arm as opposed to her right said [music]
01:05:54
what? >> It said that that arm was lower than the rest of her body. Blood sinks to the
01:05:58
lowest point. So either her head was [music] on the other side of the bed with her left arm hanging off or her
01:06:04
head had to be at the foot of the bed with her left arm hanging off. Neither of which was what he described [music]
01:06:08
and diagrammed. >> And then there are those computer searches. Matt visited onlineies
01:06:15
searching for the sleeping pill ambient. [music] >> Is your business, your internet
01:06:20
business, a library or a store? >> We're not in the information business. We're purely a commercial business. This
01:06:25
witness who flew in from Spain says that pharmacy has one purpose. >> The number one reason why you you find
01:06:32
yourself in this situation is because you want to buy something. >> He says Matt attempted to buy a generic
01:06:39
form of ambient and placed it in his online shopping cart, but when cross-examined by defense attorney Gray,
01:06:46
>> they went through the process of looking at it, but it was aborted and no purchase of ambient was made.
01:06:53
>> Correct. Yes. No further question. >> And there's no evidence that he bought ambient anywhere else or that he forced
01:07:02
Carrie to take that or any other drug. >> If there is not clearcut [music] proof, then we don't convict.
01:07:11
>> You solemnly swear the testimony you give in this matter to be the truth, the
01:07:14
whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> But the defense's biggest challenge is
01:07:17
yet to come. >> I do. >> When the state star witness [music] takes the stand. We had no knowledge of
01:07:24
what she would say until she testified in the courtroom. >> You really need to turn yourself in or
01:07:29
I'm going to tell what you did. And he said, >> "You better not do that. This witness is a pretty woman.
01:07:53
>> Would you please state your name for the record? >> Yes, it's Vanessa Bulls. >> She obviously loved the attention.
01:08:00
>> I was raised strict Southern Baptist. >> She was a mistress of a preacher. >> Now, you're not saying that at that time
01:08:06
you were pure as the driven snow, right? >> Oh, no. >> That's not good anywhere around here.
01:08:11
That's really not good. Four days into Matt Baker's trial, the moment everyone has been waiting for. [music]
01:08:18
>> For the first time, we were going to hear exactly what happened. >> On the stand, the prosecution's star
01:08:26
witness, the self-confident, almost smug 27-year-old [music] teacher Vanessa Bulls. Were you worried
01:08:34
the jury might really dislike her? >> Oh, yeah. We were very aware of that problem going in.
01:08:42
Assistant DA Susan Schaefer has another problem with the witness. >> There was a lot available for attack by
01:08:48
the [music] defense. >> Did you tell the truth about the affair? >> I know I didn't admit to it.
01:08:52
>> For years, Vanessa Bulls lied to everyone [music] about her relationship with Matt Baker. The jury might just
01:08:59
dismiss her as a liar. >> Sure, >> I completely denied everything. >> But you were willing to go with this.
01:09:05
>> We believed that this was in fact the true story. One time I was sitting by myself in the
01:09:12
church. >> Vanessa begins by telling the jury how she met Matt at church in the fall of
01:09:17
2005. >> He came in and he just sat down, started talking to me and said, "Whoever finds
01:09:22
you is going to be a lucky man." >> Vanessa was a single mom going through a divorce.
01:09:28
>> He said that, you know, he'd counseledled people with divorce before. He said he's lost a child and God could
01:09:34
get you through anything. She says Matt often complained about Carrie. His wife was so depressed. He
01:09:43
said she was a horrible mother, a horrible [music] wife. They didn't have sex anymore.
01:09:48
>> And at the time, were you buying into what he was telling you about Carrie? >> I was buying into everything. [music]
01:09:52
>> In early March 2006, Matt invited Vanessa to continue counseling at his house.
01:10:00
>> He asked if he could hold my hands to pray, and he did. Then afterwards, he started to kiss me. Then he just took my
01:10:10
hand and led me to the bedroom. >> It was the first time she says they had sex. >> I was extremely remorseful. I couldn't
01:10:19
believe what had just happened. >> But still, the affair continued, and so did Matt's bitterness towards his wife.
01:10:26
>> He referred to her as a fat [ __ ] Said that he wanted her out of his life. Just a few weeks later, Carrie was dead.
01:10:40
Within days, Vanessa says Matt told her exactly how he did it. >> He said, "I'm going to tell you what
01:10:47
happened that night one time." Then he said, "I never want to talk about it again."
01:10:55
Under the guise of a romantic evening, Matt gave Carrie a mix of wine coolers and pills he said were sex stimulants.
01:11:03
[music] >> He said he handcuffed her to the bed and started kissing her and touching her all
01:11:09
over until she fell asleep. >> But Vanessa says Matt had filled the capsules [music] with crushed ambient to
01:11:16
knock his wife out. He said he kissed her on the forehead and either said, "Give Cassidy a hug for me or give
01:11:22
Cassidy a kiss for me." [snorts] Then he said he got the pillow and put it over her face.
01:11:30
Matt thought Carrie was dead, Vanessa says. So he was startled when Carrie suddenly gasped for air.
01:11:38
>> He said, "Oh," and then he said he put the pillow on her face, but then he said he did this
01:11:45
with his hand where her nose was. So he would be sure to suffocate her. >> I know what my child was screaming
01:11:56
inside of her head. [gasps and laughter] She was screaming out for her babies. I
01:12:04
know that. I know that. >> Even more devastating for Linda Doulan, her daughter didn't have to die. Vanessa
01:12:14
admits she knew Matt was plotting to kill Carrie. >> He talked [music] about maybe putting
01:12:20
something in a milkshake, making it look like she had hung herself, maybe doing a
01:12:24
driveby shooting, make it look like she overdosed on sleeping pills, [music] tampering with the brakes of her car.
01:12:30
Vanessa even knew the day Matt intended to murder his wife. April 7th, 2006. >> And you didn't report that to anybody?
01:12:38
>> No. >> Vanessa could [music] have saved your daughter. >> Yes, I know it. She knew what day your
01:12:44
daughter was going to die and she never told anybody. [music] >> I know. >> Two weeks later, a smiling Vanessa Bulls
01:12:52
was by Matt's side helping to chaperone Kenz's 10th birthday party. >> Has it not occurred to you that if he
01:12:59
killed one wife, he might kill another? >> I thought he would, but he promised me
01:13:02
that he would be so happy that he would never do that. >> She continued dating him [music] and
01:13:09
kept her mouth shut. Not only had I known about this and not done the right thing, in truth, who would believe me,
01:13:16
he was a preacher. And so, [snorts and music] I felt like I was stuck. >> And even after she broke up with Matt
01:13:24
months later, when police began looking into Carrie's death, [music] >> he started saying, "I killed my wife for
01:13:30
you and now you're leaving." >> Vanessa says she was afraid to talk. >> At that point, [music] I was worried
01:13:36
that he would come after me and put a bullet in my head to be blunt. If what she said was the truth, it was uh pretty
01:13:43
dramatic and pretty damning. >> But Matt Baker's lawyer, Guy James Gray, says Vanessa is a liar, pure and simple.
01:13:53
>> I don't believe much of what she said. >> And when it's his turn to cross-examine
01:13:57
Vanessa, >> Mr. Gray, >> Gray attacks her credibility. >> Was that statement true or not true?
01:14:04
>> It was absolutely false. I was untruthful. I was still keeping that part in. I'm pretty sure I denied that
01:14:10
completely. >> Isn't it possible that Vanessa Bulls is finally telling the truth?
01:14:15
>> Possible. Sure. Not very likely, though. >> Mr. Gray, call your first witness.
01:14:19
>> When the defense presents its case, Gray only calls one witness, a forensic expert who speculates that traces of DNA
01:14:27
found on the suicide note might be carries. Out of all of the people that you tested, which one had the highest
01:14:37
probability of a touch? >> Carrie Baker appears to have the highest number. >> Nothing for the jury.
01:14:43
>> Gray hopes this will create doubt in the minds of the jurors. >> If the primary source of DNA on that
01:14:50
piece of paper was Carrie Bakers, then she must have taken her own life. >> It's now in the hands of the jury. The
01:14:58
jury started deliberating this afternoon. >> I felt we had proven our case. >> Right now, we're waiting for the jury to
01:15:05
return a verdict. >> I was concerned how the jury would feel about Manasse. >> Seven women and five men now deciding if
01:15:13
the former preacher is guilty of killing his wife. >> As they deliberate into the night,
01:15:19
>> we have a note from the jury. >> The jurors have a series of questions for the judge. Is it possible for us to
01:15:25
see Matt Baker's complete deposition video? >> It made me very, [music] very nervous.
01:15:30
>> We received another note from the jury. >> We were concerned. >> Do we have to find guilt by use of drugs
01:15:36
and suffocating? >> It was frightening. >> Can we have a transcript of Vanessa Bull's testimony, please?
01:15:43
>> Gez. You know, it may be that they can't figure it out. As the hours went on, I became more
01:16:04
nervous. I went off by myself and just prayed a lot. Oh my gosh, what if what if they don't
01:16:15
convict him? What do you do? You're always nervous until they [music] come back in. There's no such thing as a
01:16:24
slam dunk. >> Especially in this case after prosecutors lost their chance to put
01:16:31
Matt Baker on the hot seat. >> It's the only case I've ever tried that I didn't put my client on the stand.
01:16:37
>> Defense attorney Guy James Gray couldn't risk it. He says, and for good reason.
01:16:43
>> They had a trap. You know >> the trap? This fireman's dummy at just about Car's weight when she died.
01:16:51
>> This is very close to what Matt faced trying to move Carrie. >> Yes, quite close.
01:16:55
>> The prosecution's plan to have Matt Baker demonstrate in front of the jury what he claims he did after he found his
01:17:04
wife dead and naked in their bed. >> 911. You have an emergency. >> When I'm on the phone with operator, I'm
01:17:09
putting her clothes on her and taking her off the bed. >> Phone to his shoulder. Her lips are
01:17:13
blue. Hands are cold. >> Dressing her without sounding out of breath. >> No, no, no. She's not breathing at all.
01:17:19
No pulse or anything. >> All right. Okay. Once he says that he has her dressed. >> Okay. Put her on the floor.
01:17:25
>> Correct. >> He has to move. >> How did you get her off the bed? >> I put my hands under her shoulders and
01:17:30
pulled her. >> He moved her. >> There's a reason that the term dead weight is used.
01:17:36
>> I'm going to need your help. [clears throat] >> And all this is happening in what period
01:17:41
of time? Oh, I measured it at a little less than 90 seconds. >> I don't know that Houdini could have
01:17:47
done that, and I didn't think he could either. >> Because Matt didn't testify, the jury
01:17:53
never got to see him do the demonstration. And as the hours tick by, [music] it seems like Gray made a wise call
01:18:06
keeping Matt off the stand. Generally, the longer the time [music] is better for the defendant.
01:18:12
>> More than 7 hours go by. [music] >> All right, bring in the jury. >> And finally, jurors reach a verdict.
01:18:24
>> We the jury find the defendant Matt D. Baker guilty of the offense of murder.
01:18:30
>> Guilty of firstdegree murder. I felt absolute relief that Matt Baker [music] would never again be in a
01:18:40
position to take a life or destroy lives. >> What did you tell your client? >> Since the day he walked in my office and
01:18:51
told me he was lying, I talked to him only for strict legal necessities and I had no other conversations. Incredibly,
01:18:59
the attorney who once so believed in his client stopped trusting Matt once he confessed to the affair.
01:19:06
>> You cannot be a good lawyer for somebody if you don't believe him. And that's a
01:19:10
position I was in. >> Prior to trial, Gray had asked to be taken off the case. >> I gave them my advice. They needed to go
01:19:18
get a different lawyer to handle it. I did not want to be there. >> But Matt insisted that Gray remain his
01:19:26
lawyer. The judge made me be there and they requested that I be there and I did my duty.
01:19:33
>> Guy, are you sorry you took on this case? >> Oh, yes. [snorts] I've never in my life
01:19:38
been forced to go to trial in a case that I didn't think I was on the right side.
01:19:45
The hardest thing I've ever done. >> Still, Gray says he defended Matt the best he could under the circumstances. I
01:19:55
still think I did a decent credible lawyer job, but I I had no heart in it. >> At sentencing, Linda Dulan gets the last
01:20:07
word. >> I'm talking to you, Matt, today. Okay. You haven't looked at me in almost four
01:20:12
years. Can you look at me today? You murdered the mother of your children. But the most tragic victims, Matt, are
01:20:21
Kinsey and Grace. Those sweet, sweet babies. >> Matt Baker's sentence 65 years with the possibility of parole.
01:20:35
Are you finally ready to admit that you killed your wife? >> No, because I didn't. I did not
01:20:41
suffocate. Did not shove pills down her throat. Did not do anything to hurt my wife.
01:20:47
>> You're saying that Vanessa Bulls lied about it all? >> Absolutely. Why would she lie about
01:20:53
this? >> She thought she was going to be with me and I walked away from the relationship
01:20:56
and she was upset and mad. >> How close did Matt Baker come to getting away with murder?
01:21:02
>> Incredibly close. >> If the Doulans hadn't pursued him, he certainly would have.
01:21:07
>> The Douland's ordeal was not over yet. Kenzie and Grace were still living with
01:21:12
Matt's parents. >> Any reaction, Matt? >> They've been taught to hate us. We were
01:21:18
portrayed as the people who caused their father to go to prison. >> A year and a half after Matt [music]
01:21:27
went to prison, Jim and Linda were back in court seeking custody of their granddaughters.
01:21:34
>> The odds were not in our favor. >> To their surprise, they won. >> This is Grace's room. This is her
01:21:43
hangout. Now they say their home is the girl's home. >> Grace is 12. She loves the arts and
01:21:51
she's in band and she plays the piano. Kinsey will be 17 next week. She is very excited about the prospect of college.
01:22:03
She's a hoot to be around. All we want now is for the girls to to be teenagers. And we never want them to feel like they
01:22:15
have to choose who to love. >> I live with three women and the other night [music] they were
01:22:24
all laughing and giggling and and just having a grand old time. That was a symphony.
01:22:33
I see Carrie. I see her every day in her daughters. She would be relishing what we're
01:22:45
experiencing. [music] >> [music] [music] [music]