00:00:07
The phrase most often associated with justice, the principle meant to anchor the
00:00:13
system, is innocent until proven guilty. But for my father and three of his peers,
00:00:21
that principle did not exist. >> That's Maurice Pierce speaking about her late father, Maurice Pierce. Pierce was
00:00:28
one of four men originally suspected in the 1991 murders of four teenage girls, Eliza Thomas, Amy Ayers, and sisters
00:00:38
Jennifer and Sarah Harbison. They were at a I Can't Believe It's Yogurt Shop in Austin, Texas.
00:00:48
>> What did you see when you first walked into the yogurt shop? >> Just wholesale carnage.
00:00:53
>> Sergeant Jones was looking at the badly burned bodies of four teenage girls who'd been bound and gagged and shot in
00:01:00
the head. The yogurt shop had been set on fire to cover the killer's tracks. >> The case has for years become known as
00:01:07
the yogurt shop murders. Nearly 35 years later, all four men were declared innocent and exonerated after
00:01:16
the Austin Police Department tied another man to the crimes. >> We now have evidence linking a specific
00:01:22
individual to this case, Robert Eugene Brashers. >> And now the city of Austin has made an
00:01:29
offer of $35 million to be split amongst the wrongfully accused men, including the family of Maurice Pierce,
00:01:38
who died before this settlement was reached. >> It's blood money for us. He He died for
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this money, so really it was never about the money for us. It was about the reform and the
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changes that need to happen, not only in Austin, but apparently across the country.
00:01:55
>> In the end, this is a story about eight victims. The four girls who were killed
00:02:01
at the yogurt shop, and the four boys who were wrongfully accused of killing them.
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What I think we need to remember is that over all these years, as terrible as it
00:02:13
was for Sarah, Jennifer, Amy, and Eliza's families, the four boys and their families were
00:02:20
hounded and treated as pariahs. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty, and this is Case by Case.
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I've been reporting on this case since almost the beginning and nearly my entire career at CBS News.
00:02:38
>> The signs of pain and outrage are everywhere around Austin. So, the police have formed an elite unit.
00:02:45
>> Dr. Snow It might be, but >> whose only mission is to catch whoever killed those girls.
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>> The gunshot wounds show that actually two different kinds of guns have been used, a .380 and a .22.
00:03:00
Back then, one of the early suspects was Maurice Pierce, who was 16 years old at
00:03:05
the time. Here's a clip from one of our 48 Hours episodes on the case. You'll also hear from the first lead detective,
00:03:14
John Jones. >> He was arrested eight days after the murders at a mall near the yogurt shop,
00:03:20
carrying a .22 caliber gun, the type [music] used in the murders. >> The .22s were unmatchable.
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>> So, you can't [music] say it wasn't his gun. >> No. >> But, there was no way to match
00:03:35
>> it was his gun. Um he gave a statement. >> Jones says [music] Maurice Pierce claimed that he was driving a getaway
00:03:44
car, and that three [music] acquaintances, Forrest Welborn, Michael Scott, and Robert Springsteen, were
00:03:51
involved [music] in the murders, but Pierce's story began to fall apart. >> It started to crater when
00:03:59
we wired him up to go talk to Forest. And we were listening in on the wire, and it was pretty obvious Forest
00:04:10
didn't know what Maurice was talking about. >> And when Wellborn, Scott, and Springsteen were brought in for
00:04:16
questioning, they too denied [music] any involvement. And with me today to discuss this case and the lasting impact
00:04:25
on the wrongfully accused and their families is Maurice Pierce's widow, Kimberly Pierce, and their daughter,
00:04:33
Marissa Pierce. I want to thank both of you for being here today. What is the first thing that comes to mind when you
00:04:40
you know you have to talk about this? >> Suffering. Um just how it got it was so unreal.
00:04:54
>> In 1991, uh it seems like such a long time ago. Let's start the beginning. I mean, what
00:05:02
did you think, Kimberly? I mean, I know that everybody in Austin had heard about this terrible terrible
00:05:08
murder of four young girls, and all of a sudden your boyfriend is pulled in and questioned about this case. Was that
00:05:17
scary? >> I mean, it was scary at the time. It was very scary for him. I didn't see him
00:05:22
until he got released. So, um I know when I saw him he had, you know, bit all of his nails, his lips were all, you
00:05:30
know, bleeding cuz he bit his lips, and just very nervous um reactions. I mean, I know initially his
00:05:39
mom and dad didn't know where he was cuz they didn't notify his parents. So, they
00:05:45
>> They you know, woke up and and he wasn't home and so they're calling, you know, like
00:05:51
any other parent we're calling the hospitals. >> Kimberly, how did he describe the
00:05:56
questioning? >> He was just ready to get out of there. I mean, that's really he was just he was
00:06:00
ready to go. He's like, I'm just glad it's over and he didn't have to tell me anything cuz I was with him that night.
00:06:05
So, I never questioned him as far as you know, there wasn't a conversation like, "Did you do it?" because
00:06:14
I was with him and I knew he didn't do it. >> How did Maurice end up pointing the
00:06:18
finger at his best friend, Forrest? How did that come about? Why did they then wire Maurice and have him go in and talk
00:06:25
to Forrest? >> Because Detective Polanco told Maurice that the gun that he had was the murder
00:06:32
weapon that killed the the four girls at the yogurt shop. >> Kimberly, what did you
00:06:38
what did you think when you heard that? >> They'd already went down a rabbit hole
00:06:43
with me and my questioning that I already knew that they were lying. Um so, I I didn't believe anything that
00:06:51
they'd said. They were telling me he was in a cult. Um that him and Forrest were in a cult like
00:06:58
with animal sacrifices. Then they when that didn't work, that's when they tried to
00:07:03
say that he was at the yogurt shop visiting one of the girls like trying to um make me jealous and I was like,
00:07:11
they're they're lying. >> You know that they later on said Maurice confessed to being part of that. That
00:07:18
wasn't true, was it? >> I mean, he never confessed. He just when they said that was the murder weapon, he
00:07:26
he basically said, "I didn't have it for this chunk of time." So, I don't think he said Forrest did it, but he's like,
00:07:33
"Somebody that was with Forrest or Forrest if he had you know, gave the gun to somebody else
00:07:40
at the mall or something. Um But he didn't have it at that time. >> So if I'm understanding you, this is
00:07:47
very helpful. So it wasn't that Maurice pointed the finger at Forrest. He's saying, "All right, if you're telling me
00:07:53
the truth that this gun was involved in the murder, well, I didn't have it at this time. My friend Forrest did." So
00:08:01
that's then why they put a wire on Maurice and had him go talk to Forrest. >> Um I found it really interesting,
00:08:09
Marissa, that um at the exoneration hearing, you talked about that and you you said that in that room there was no
00:08:17
evidence, only a detective and a narrative. A narrative that was so completely false, I'm using your words,
00:08:25
"it feels evil." What do you mean by that? >> Well, you know, there's the person that um
00:08:34
raised me, the person that I know, the person that loved me and taught me all of life lessons. And then
00:08:42
there's this um this fabrication, this creation of a of a mastermind and and and a ringleader
00:08:53
on on the news and and and articles. And so that's the narrative that I was referencing.
00:08:59
>> That detective doing the questioning of Maurice for hours was Hector Polanco.
00:09:05
Lead detective John Jones took a statement after that. But he had doubts and told me when I started that it was
00:09:13
clear that Forrest Wellborn knew nothing and there was nothing to connect Maurice
00:09:20
Pierce. None of the four guys were charged. And so did you feel that it was over at that point?
00:09:28
>> We did. >> So there's a period of time, that's when Marissa was born and Marissa's growing
00:09:34
up. But then almost eight years later, in 1999, a new investigation and interrogations
00:09:42
pushed two of the four men, Robert Springsteen and Michael Scott, to seemingly confess.
00:09:49
>> Michael Scott's confession came first. He was questioned over 4 days. >> Come on, Michael, you're doing good.
00:09:57
Tell us, let's do this today. Let's do it. >> Seeing girl I remember one girl screaming terrified.
00:10:03
>> Scott told investigators that he and the others only intended a simple robbery.
00:10:08
He said they cased the yogurt shop earlier that day, and then, after dark, he said, they came back armed with two
00:10:16
guns. >> I had a gun go off. I only pulled trigger once. I hear another gun go off.
00:10:24
>> Investigators claimed that Springsteen later corroborated much of what Scott said.
00:10:31
>> I know this is a lie, right, right? >> But after intense questioning, he went
00:10:36
further. >> No, they didn't know anything about anything. >> Springsteen told them he shot one girl
00:10:47
>> [music] >> and raped her. >> Both men later recanted those confessions, saying that they were
00:10:52
coerced. But Springsteen, Scott, along with Maurice Pierce, and Forrest Welborn were arrested. How did you find that
00:11:02
out? When did you find out that Robert Springsteen and Michael Scott had suddenly confessed after all those years
00:11:10
and implicated Maurice? >> I mean, basically, you're figuring it out when he got picked up on October 6th
00:11:16
of 1999. >> And Marissa, do you remember? How old were you? What was that like? >> Um I was 7.
00:11:24
And um it was intense. It was devastating. It was confusing. Uh it was a lot of things for a
00:11:36
7-year-old to have to um try to grasp. I think my mom and dad tried really hard to
00:11:43
shield me. I was 7. Um It was It was a lot though. >> How did you explain it to Marissa,
00:11:51
Kimberly? I mean, all of a sudden, her dad that she's known for 7 years is suddenly in jail.
00:11:59
>> I didn't tell her why he was in jail. I just uh told her he was in jail. I mean, at
00:12:05
first So, that day, they came really early before work. I mean, it was a whole SWAT team.
00:12:12
Um and but I heard all the commotion, like the dogs were barking, and I I went out. I
00:12:19
was still in my, you know, nightgown, and uh they pointed all their guns at me, right? Cuz I'm coming out of the house.
00:12:29
They have him hog-tied on the ground. >> Did you even know what it was about yet?
00:12:34
Did you know what was happening? >> Oh, I I knew what it was about. Yes, because they had talked to him
00:12:41
um not too long before he got arrested. Um but yeah, it was just I sent her to school
00:12:49
cuz I didn't, you know, you're in shock, and you're like, I don't know exactly what I'm going to do, and then
00:12:54
uh the principal called me because the news was there at her school. And so, then I figured out, well, I
00:13:01
can't send her to school. So, um yeah, then everything just started happening. I had to
00:13:09
quit my job. We moved. I wanted to be, I don't know, somewhere where I felt like
00:13:13
it would be less known. I didn't want her to be messed with at school. Um I didn't work that whole first year
00:13:20
because I was trying to be there for um Maurice. I I think we ever thought it was going to last that long when you're
00:13:28
when there is no evidence and there's uh you know that you're innocent, you just I don't know, you just think that
00:13:34
it's all a huge mistake, misunderstanding. >> Back then, I interviewed Forest Welboard. Um and he clearly did not seem
00:13:45
to know anything. [music] >> Were you there that night? >> No. >> Were you there as a lookout? [music]
00:13:52
>> No. I mean, that's it. >> You had nothing to do with this. >> Nothing at all.
00:14:00
>> At the time, uh I did a very long interview with him and the DA at the time, Ronnie Earl, tried to get a hold
00:14:08
of that interview because he he wanted to know if there was anything incriminating in there. I mean, how
00:14:14
difficult was that for the two of you when these cases got so much attention? >> I mean,
00:14:21
>> [clears throat] >> it's guilt by association. I feel like the way that you get treated by
00:14:29
the media and the families was you might as well have been the murderer yourself.
00:14:36
>> Maurice never went on trial. He never went on trial. The only two who went on
00:14:42
trial were Michael Scott and Robert Springsteen because they were the only ones who had, quote unquote, confessed.
00:14:49
There was no other evidence, and yet Maurice spent more than 3 years in prison. Is that correct?
00:14:56
>> Yes. >> Michael Scott and Robert Springsteen were both convicted. Scott was given
00:15:03
life in prison. Robert Springsteen was put on death row. In 2003, then Maurice is finally
00:15:11
released. >> Mhm. >> And he's released according to the DA, who's still DA at that point, Ronnie
00:15:17
Earl, and he says, "There isn't enough evidence to, quote, convict him right now.
00:15:23
>> Mhm. >> So, was it really over even though he's released, was it? >> No, it wasn't over. Um
00:15:32
they continued to harass him, harass me. There was definitely times when I'm he felt like he was clearly being followed.
00:15:40
So >> By police officers? >> Right. >> What What kind of toll did that take on Maurice?
00:15:47
>> I mean, being in jail took the hardest toll on him. In order to survive in there and to be
00:15:54
locked up for 23 hours a day, he had to somehow shut off his feelings. And so, it's hard. You don't just, you
00:16:03
know, come out and you're free man and your feelings turn on again. He was just a much harder, different person when he
00:16:11
came out. >> And I want to make it clear that they although he was in in jail for over 3 years, there was no
00:16:21
physical evidence that tied him to the murder. Is that correct? And no statement that tied him to the murder.
00:16:27
>> Correct. >> And yet you believe he was targeted by police when he was [music] released.
00:16:35
>> Absolutely. >> So, now we go to 2006-2007. I'm just going through the the history
00:16:46
here. And the the convictions of Michael Scott and Robert Springsteen are overturned.
00:16:55
Um it's on constitutional basis. Uh the Sixth Amendment uh allows a defendant to
00:17:02
be able to confront an accuser, but here you had these two quote-unquote confessions that were used against these
00:17:10
guys, but they were not allowed to question each other. So, they are released. And at that time, there's a
00:17:16
new DA. And she thinks, "Okay, I'm going to retry these guys, but I'm going to make sure I have more
00:17:23
evidence. So, I'm going to I'm going to retest that DNA, that uh partial male DNA
00:17:31
uh profile that by then we know exists, uh but it never been able to be tied to anyone." And all of the sudden she tests
00:17:39
it. In fact, it shows not only were those two guys excluded by that DNA, but so was Maurice and Forest, all four
00:17:47
guys. Did that make Maurice's life any better? >> No. I mean, that's why perception is
00:17:57
reality. >> Mhm. >> He was still perceived to be a murderer, a mastermind, guilty.
00:18:05
Um and again, us by association. So, um you know, I didn't get jobs because he was my husband.
00:18:14
So, it it's, you know, been very difficult for all of us for a long, long time. >> Mhm.
00:18:22
>> Kimberly, how did you just stay? I know I mean, I know you love Maurice, but that had to be hard.
00:18:29
>> How do you not stay? Yeah. >> Tell me more. >> We were together since we were 13 and
00:18:38
14. I think we grew up together, we made mistakes together, we had her young um together.
00:18:47
Um you know, I he was my best friend. So, it's it's hard that he's gone. Um it's hard
00:19:00
to live with what they did to him. >> Well, let's talk about that. That I think is what I think I've been putting
00:19:08
off going to. In 2010, do you need something at all, Marissa? We can stop for a second.
00:19:15
>> tissue, please. >> Of course. Of course. >> Thank you. >> I It makes me a little teary right now.
00:19:24
What happened in 2010? >> Um Maurice went through a stop sign. He did a rolling stop, a California stop,
00:19:37
whatever you want to call it. Um he parked his car at his sister's house, got out, went into the house,
00:19:51
and then they chased him. So, he uh you know, went through her house and went through the backyard and and
00:20:00
obviously started jumping fences and and running, evading. Um and they had him. >> Well, can I tell it Let me Let me read
00:20:14
to you what the police say. I want you to tell me what's accurate, what's not here. So, this is how the awesome police
00:20:20
department described what happened on that day in 2010 in December 2010. Maurice was stopped for traffic and fled
00:20:30
on foot. APD Officer Frank Wilson caught Pierce and the two struggled. Pierce removed Officer Wilson's knife from his
00:20:39
belt and then stabbed him in the neck. Officer Wilson shot and killed Pierce. Officer Wilson survived his injuries.
00:20:47
Marissa, is that how you would describe what happened? >> Um I I mean, I guess. I don't I don't know.
00:20:59
If my dad wanted to harm this officer, Frank Wilson, he My dad was a you know, a capable man. He He
00:21:09
if he wanted to, he he could have. And he didn't want to. He was just trying to run, you know, his mind went
00:21:18
into survival. That was it. He just wanted to get away. And And naturally so. I wish people, you
00:21:26
know, could understand that. I know that my father was not trying to harm um that officer.
00:21:33
>> Marissa was on the phone with him when he died. >> Oh my god. Tell me about it, Marissa.
00:21:38
>> I was on the phone I was on the phone when it happened. Um and that's how I knew
00:21:46
that he just wanted to get away because he had told me like could hear it in his voice, the fear
00:21:54
that was taking over. He said, "They're after me. They're after me." And um I heard him put his car
00:22:08
in park. I heard him open the door. I heard him run. And then um and then he let me go.
00:22:22
He hung up. And I believe I believe that he hung up when he knew that this officer was on him.
00:22:32
So that way, like I said, he's always He's always found a way to shield me. And I think that was intentional.
00:22:43
And he let me go, but it was only moments later that he called me back. And uh At the At the time
00:23:00
he whispered very quietly to me. And in my head, I believed that he was hiding, you know.
00:23:10
And I had just promised him like we're going to figure it out. It's okay. You're fine.
00:23:14
You're safe. I love you. We're going to find you. Um but he was whispering because at that point he was taking his
00:23:24
last breaths. Um And in those last moments he had just said I'm sorry. I don't think you're going to see me
00:23:39
again. And I love you. >> How did you find out, Kimberly? >> Marissa Um >> [snorts]
00:23:59
>> Marissa came to my house. It's >> 4:00 in the morning. >> Yeah, and she's like Daddy Daddy is
00:24:07
gone. And uh Yeah, I just I don't know. I I didn't know how to Like is it real or not right there? We
00:24:19
can't see it. But it sounded pretty real. I just felt like they they finally got him. It was hard to
00:24:28
hear that an Austin police officer had shot him. Um I was angry. I'm pissed off.
00:24:34
>> You You know, the the Austin Police Department say that the officer was It was a matter of
00:24:42
defending his life, that he killed him in self-defense. But you say it was murder. Why do you say that?
00:24:49
>> Um they've lied so much over the past 30 years in regards to the yogurt shop case. I certainly don't believe them
00:24:59
about the night that Maurice was shot. So, in my mind, they murdered him, and that's how I will always remember it. I
00:25:09
Personally, I feel like the timing of it was uh you know, Robin might get released in 2009.
00:25:18
APD is mad that they don't have anybody in custody to blame. They're getting pressure
00:25:27
still from everyone to solve the case. And uh I think they were going to get Maurice
00:25:35
no matter what and and make him pay for it. Cuz I don't see how he was shot over
00:25:45
rolling through a stop sign. Um I I just don't see it. That's how I feel. I don't think Maurice found his
00:25:53
knife and stabbed him in the neck. I just don't see it. >> You have questions about that night. You
00:25:59
definitely have some questions left. And then you're talking about So, this was 2000 December 2010.
00:26:07
And then it takes years, and we're talking about September 2025. The awesome police department identified
00:26:16
a completely different man, Robert Eugene Brashears, as the man responsible for the murders of Amy, Eliza, Jennifer,
00:26:25
and Sarah. >> The only The only physical evidence located at that scene has been matched
00:26:31
to him. Brashears died by suicide in 1999 after a standoff with police in Missouri.
00:26:39
And his DNA has since been And before this connection he has been connected to murders and rapes across the country.
00:26:45
>> How did you find out? Did you find out when we did? Or did at least the DA's office give you a call, a heads-up.
00:26:54
>> Nobody called me. My sister-in-law called me. Marissa's sister called me. She saw it on the news and she called
00:27:02
me. It just all seems surreal like until you start seeing stuff on the news and start Googling it, looking it up
00:27:08
yourself, you're like, is it real? Um and it was. And then I contemplated uh coming to the press conference. But I
00:27:20
felt like um you know, I wanted to allow the the victims' families to have their time.
00:27:28
So, I I didn't I didn't come. We me Marissa came to my house and we watched it together.
00:27:35
>> Obviously, this announcement was huge to uh the families of the girls. I mean,
00:27:41
you know, so um I wanted you to hear a little bit of of what Barbara, uh Sarah and Jennifer's mom had to say
00:27:50
about finding out that after almost 35 years, the case had finally been solved. Here's a little bit from her.
00:27:58
>> It has been so long and all we ever wanted for this case was the truth. We never wanted anyone to go to jail or
00:28:07
be charged with anything that they did not do. Vengeance was never it. It was always
00:28:13
the truth. >> I was there at that press conference. Um and we we and we asked as reporters,
00:28:21
is there any connection to this guy and the four guys that have uh been always suspected of killing the
00:28:29
girls and then we were told no. Is there going to be an apology to the the men who had been accused? And
00:28:37
they said, well, when we do more investigation if we were wrong, we'll apologize. That
00:28:44
I'm paraphrasing, but that's what was said. Tell me what you were feeling at that moment.
00:28:51
>> I mean, that's how they always treated us, so it wasn't any different. I'm I was just ready to to move on
00:29:00
to the the next steps of I mean, that's when Marissa went into action and started,
00:29:08
you know, cold calling attorneys. You know, who who will help us officially clear his name
00:29:18
even though he's dead. Cuz it means something. >> I think one of the uh hardest things to
00:29:29
hear in that press conference, and and if you were watching on television, you probably remember this, too, was to find
00:29:37
out that there was a missed opportunity just 2 days after the girls were killed. Um the real killer,
00:29:47
Brashiers, is stopped at a checkpoint. Um it was near El Paso, and he had a .380 gun with him. Uh it fit the
00:29:57
description of the gun that had been used by the murders. Um there was a .22 and a .380 that was
00:30:05
used in the murders. They know he's in a stolen car. They know he has a .380 >> Yeah, that was hard to hear.
00:30:12
Um the judicial system failed us in multiple states. Um Florida let him go early for who knows why.
00:30:22
Uh he should have still been in jail when he committed the yogurt shop murders. Um
00:30:28
even in '99, he shot himself with the same gun. I was like, how does he get the gun back?
00:30:35
Like if maybe knives would have been tested then, like maybe they would have picked
00:30:40
it up and figured it out. like I would like to know how when when was the last time, you know?
00:30:45
>> I think I should make it clear that NIBIN is that data center that keeps track of of
00:30:51
>> Mhm. >> ballistics uh and weapons used in in crimes. >> Yeah, it felt like a series of unfortunate events that led
00:31:04
to the arrest and and murder of Maurice is what it felt like. There were so many
00:31:09
things that had to play out and went wrong that resulted in his death. >> Is it hard that he I mean hard for you
00:31:20
to accept that he doesn't know? His family knows, everyone in Austin knows, and Maurice did not live long enough to
00:31:28
find out. >> It's hard that they knew the truth and they just didn't care. Um and that it didn't matter that they were
00:31:40
ruining four boys' lives. I feel that today. Like nobody really cares about the four
00:31:48
boys or the harm that it caused them or our families. And it's still focused more on the serial killer
00:31:59
um and the victims' families than the four boys. >> You don't think today that anybody
00:32:09
is interested or cares about what you all went through in all these years? >> as well.
00:32:18
Not as much. >> Yeah. Uh you began working with the Innocence Project of Texas. Marissa, it really was
00:32:27
important for your father to be cleared and exonerated. That did matter. >> Absolutely.
00:32:34
>> Was there any question that was going to happen? I mean, was it I mean, because we know that that
00:32:42
hearing was held, but was there any question before it was held whether in fact there would be an apology and and
00:32:51
there would be an exoneration of all four men including your dad? >> Not in my mind. Um, it
00:32:58
it came to pass and we were able to be there and experience it and see it for him.
00:33:03
I >> I was not there. I watched it afterwards. And when Mike Scott, who was the only one of the four who actually
00:33:13
testified at that hearing, took the stand, I didn't even recognize him. He looked like an old guy. In my mind, I
00:33:22
was still seeing the Michael Scotts even from 1999 and oh, when he went on trial.
00:33:29
And it really showed me how much time had gone by and the weight that had been on these these
00:33:37
individuals. Did that help? To finally have this hearing where at least uh, the state of Texas and most of
00:33:46
America could see that um, your father's name had been cleared? >> I was definitely grateful.
00:33:54
I was happy to see it myself. Um, but in my mind it's a little too late. There's he's not here to experience the
00:34:07
things that he should have been able to do too. See that the people finally hear him and
00:34:14
are listening to him and know his innocence cuz we've known all along. Family's known all along.
00:34:21
>> What about you, Kimberly? >> Um, I mean, I think it was a little cathartic to go through it, write the
00:34:30
statement, say what I wanted to say. I honestly thought it would never be solved in my lifetime.
00:34:37
So, it was kind of a relief to finally just hear it all. I mean, the the DA did apologize, you know, publicly.
00:34:48
That that day was a good day um for us. We're hoping that out of it um all of the things that went wrong
00:34:57
will be brought to light and some serious reform will will you know, come out of it.
00:35:05
>> All right, and that's what I want to get to cuz I know that is really the reason
00:35:08
why you're sitting down with us. I know that you really want to talk about the changes.
00:35:13
So, um the city of Austin has uh agreed to pay um all four men, and in your case
00:35:23
the family of Maurice Pierce, uh $35 million. And it's been reported that your family
00:35:31
will get $10 million. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> I think some people will look and say
00:35:39
that's a lot of money to people. Other people will say it's not enough. What do you think?
00:35:45
>> Oh, it's definitely not enough for his life. It was very hard to try to say that that was enough.
00:35:51
>> So, tell me about some of the changes you would really like to be you'd really like to see.
00:35:57
>> Um I would like a um child advocate to be appointed to any juvenile being questioned as a witness
00:36:06
or a suspect. Um especially in a a murder case. There should have been I mean, they didn't they violated our
00:36:15
rights. They didn't call our parents. They talked to us without them. Um obviously, that shouldn't happen.
00:36:21
Uh Paul Johnson admits that ev- you know, the entire interrogation was not uh taped, Right? Only excerpts or parts
00:36:29
of it. Um, that should not be allowed to happen. It should be >> You want the whole thing taped. And Paul
00:36:37
Johnson became the lead detective. >> Right. I don't need excerpts. I don't need, you
00:36:44
know, you feeding him information after you've shown him, you know, the graphic photos of the girls, you know, dead when
00:36:51
he was 16 years old, right? Like that that should not be what's happening. >> So, in fact, Maurice, early on, even at
00:36:59
age 16, they're showing him pictures of the victims to try to get him to >> Mhm.
00:37:07
>> to confess. >> Yes. >> And you want to see that change? >> Well, they should not be allowed to lie
00:37:14
to, I mean, anyone, but especially juveniles. You know, Maurice thought, "They're not allowed to lie to you.
00:37:20
They're the cops. They're telling the truth." Like, he honestly thought it was the truth. Um
00:37:26
he had no doubt in his mind they were telling him the truth. They're the law. Um, even when right? They were
00:37:32
questioning um, Mike, like when that the one detective puts the gun to the back of his head, you know, like, "You did
00:37:39
it." Like, that's that should not be allowed. Um ever. Right? If if you're getting a confession that way, that's
00:37:46
problematic. >> Mhm. >> That's clearly coerced. And then we also want um, all of Paul Johnson's cases
00:37:54
reviewed. >> And has the city of Austin or have has the APD, the Austin Police Department
00:38:02
promised to end some of these practices or you working towards that? >> We're working towards that. There's
00:38:10
seven seven different um, reform requests. >> I know this is not part of um this uh, settlement with the city, but I
00:38:20
have to ask as a reporter, is there some changes you'd like to see in what what we do, what I do?
00:38:28
>> Really dig in, maybe you know, like I said, the narrative in the beginning, I I felt like
00:38:35
not a lot of reporters were really truly questioning the evidence and the alibi and the
00:38:42
how are we here? You know, just ask some of those out of the box questions. So, even maybe you as
00:38:48
a reporter when a detective tells you this is who you think it is, you know, maybe
00:38:54
it holds validity because they're detective, right? But, that's not the case and I think that's important for us
00:39:01
to all realize is that everyone should be questioned. >> I mean, I think now um, you know, in in 2026, people are
00:39:10
questioning authorities more than we did in the '90s. Um, I think, you know, there is so much
00:39:18
more on um, caught on camera, right? So, it's harder for them to get away with it and hide
00:39:26
what they're doing um, behind closed doors. >> I have to say, Kimberly, I also think
00:39:32
that if this had happened today, there would have been cameras in the yogurt shop and you know, cameras outside and
00:39:41
this might not have happened, but um, but what your family went through it just should not happen to anyone. Um, I
00:39:52
I feel like I want to leave it with with the two of you describing how do you want us to see Maurice Pierce?
00:40:01
>> I mean, he was a a husband, a a father, a brother, an uncle. He you know, loved to work on any type of
00:40:11
car, motorcycle. He liked old muscle cars. Um, you know, he just would go out of his way to to help
00:40:22
somebody if you know, he thought um something was wrong. >> And you stood by him all those years.
00:40:31
What did you love about him? >> I don't know if I could point I mean I just he was he was mine.
00:40:37
I guess I loved the way that he loved me. >> He was a he was home. Um he was like a a you know, kind of like
00:40:48
that anchor. And uh he was tender and he was kind. He was always just so gentle.
00:40:59
He was um our home and our safe space and our uh protection, but he was also love.
00:41:12
Just so much love. And that's what gives me the courage to sit here is I I know that
00:41:19
life was heavy for him, but he still got up every morning and he still tried. Every day.
00:41:26
>> I want to thank both of you for talking about this and I want to know what happens and um and I really [music]
00:41:32
appreciate that the two of you spoke with us today. >> Thank you. >> [music]