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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime
00:03:32
[Music] we were pointing out the things and the facts that we know regarding this case
00:03:51
regarding evidence we also wanted to point out a bunch of the theories that are involved and I got to tell you
00:03:57
Captain there are a lot of them theories and of course some are better than others but we will go through those I
00:04:05
think we should also real quick go through the lack thereof evidence as we mentioned yesterday the
00:04:13
actual evidence right it seems like this crime was taken place outside the home so that makes it even harder to collect
00:04:21
the evidence yeah that's what Sheriff s SS says he believes is that the murders took place elsewhere and we know that
00:04:29
the body was found inside the garage so that's a big part of the reason why I think it makes this investigation so
00:04:36
difficult because this is what you would describe to be as a clean crime scene we
00:04:43
have a double homicide yet we have a very clean crime scene well right and we don't know what he means by not in the
00:04:51
house does he mean that the crime happen in the garage did the crime happen in the yard does he think that the crime
00:04:59
happened in the boat I think you're hitting on something very key to this case here I think we have Sheriff Sills
00:05:07
saying that the murders didn't happen inside the house you have to wonder is he including
00:05:14
the garage to be a part of or a portion of the actual house itself or does he mean that that is outside of the house
00:05:22
well like you said he randomly comes out with more information or more thoughts his own thoughts of what happened maybe
00:05:30
as time goes by he'll then clear up that statement of where he thinks these crimes took place so what they didn't
00:05:38
find as we mentioned we have SS Tex went over the durman home painstakingly for both fingerprint and luminol evidence
00:05:47
looking for blood evidence and the sheriff at one point even made reference to lasers so the lack of blood anywhere
00:05:54
except the garage led the sheriff to believe that both Shirley and Russell were not killed inside inside the house
00:06:00
in the house are his words Shirley's head wounds would have been would have caused spatter or blood spray and she
00:06:08
was brutally bludgeoned none was found we still don't know exactly how Russell was killed we can surmise that it was a
00:06:15
head injury as well but again the only blood that was found was the postmortem decapitation not the Fatal damage to the
00:06:24
skull this leads to the obvious conclusion that possibly Russell dur was killed by being shot in the back of the
00:06:30
head we did have the GSR residue on the back of the collar yeah and you have to follow the evidence yeah the durans
00:06:38
adult children walked with Sheriff Sills through the house and couldn't point to
00:06:44
anything that was missing we have some of the things that were found there two Rolex watches other jewelry wallets with
00:06:53
cash laptops cell phones the fancy cars along with everything else were all undisturbed as far as the kids knew
00:07:02
nothing it seemed was removed from the home by the killer or Killers so what are the more popular theories in this
00:07:11
case Captain there are numerous theories there are some cases that uh in some of
00:07:17
these cases they're quite outlandish yeah so we're going to list the most popular and most likely theories here
00:07:24
for you one that it was a mob hit two one of the kids did it the adult children three it was a hired
00:07:34
professional hit four it was an extortion plot Gone Wrong five it was someone who had a beef with one or both
00:07:44
of the durans six it was a case of mistaken identity seven it was simply an insane Psycho Killer looking for a
00:07:54
victim or victims and eight it was meth heads or other deranged druggies looking
00:08:00
for a big score I think that really rounds out the the most likely theories here because
00:08:07
those are all ones that I think we both contemplated when looking through this case and what evidence is provided to us
00:08:15
well I almost want to throw away the the last one druggies looking for a big score we don't have any evidence of a
00:08:23
perpetrator being in a house and we have all these items that could have been taken that would have been huge scores
00:08:30
and none of them taken right so where I think you give some Credence to that theory about the druggies would be we
00:08:39
have Russell durman who was we know that he went a couple places before he was killed right one he went to the bank
00:08:47
drive-thru at the bank someone could have spotted him there and thought okay well this guy has cash he's accessed
00:08:54
some cash I'm going to follow him home and then we have the other situation of him picking up a prescription ion that
00:09:00
very same day that's his next erand right and so you got that double whammy Factor there of okay this guy might have
00:09:06
cash uh he we know he went and picked up a prescription of some sort and he goes
00:09:12
back to this big beautiful home so I think that's where that gets some Credence the problem with that is if
00:09:20
that is the motive why the hell didn't they take anything her prescription medication was found on the counter we
00:09:28
also have jewelry expensive jewelry jewelry Rolex watches cash things that were not taken from that house I have to
00:09:37
believe if it's somebody looking to score in that manner they're not going to walk away from this situation
00:09:44
empty-handed and you'd think these would be quick kills and decapitation let's just say it it's it's a lot of extra
00:09:52
work and on top of that then you take somebody with you and then you tie bricks to their
00:09:59
their feet and to dump them somewhere else this is a bunch of extra work too right it it just doesn't seem like uh to
00:10:08
me the crime scene should be sloppier if this is the motive and as you mentioned
00:10:14
faster the method of killing and getting the hell out of there they're in the F the it could be a blow to each one of
00:10:23
their heads grab some stuff and go right the old Smash and grab so I think let's
00:10:28
check that one off the list because it doesn't check enough boxes to to Warrant being a likely situation doesn't make
00:10:36
any sense to me yeah so the mob hit angle uh Sheriff Sills admitted that this was on his list it in you know
00:10:45
through the course of his first thoughts regarding this investigation this mainly because when
00:10:51
he saw the body in the garage had no head one of the first things he did was he called the feds to determine whether
00:10:58
Russell and sure early were perhaps in a witness protection program and he learned that in fact they were not um
00:11:05
nonetheless many people seem to online like this theory that the durans were possibly whacked right because they both
00:11:13
originated from New Jersey you know land of The Sopranos and whatnot and some people believing that the decapitation
00:11:21
could be seen as a mafia signature proof of death something like that I I I don't
00:11:28
know I think this is one of those situations where this becomes a theory when all other theories fail when
00:11:36
you kind of run out of ideas this seems like a move to go to yeah not so fast my
00:11:43
friend I I think we have the attacks happening outside of the house again we don't know where Sheriff believes those
00:11:52
to happen but to me the decapitation with evidence of gun gunshot is a sign of something it's to
00:12:04
send a message to somebody agreed and then also two bodies in two different spots they could have killed her and
00:12:13
left her right beside him mhm they could also get decapitated her they didn't they they they put her in a body of
00:12:22
water to me that's a sign of something so again you don't have to be a part of a witness protection program uh to just
00:12:30
have some connections correct that maybe for whatever reason something went bad and and and now it's time to pay up
00:12:41
well I don't think that that was a method of dismissing this Theory I think it was a method
00:12:47
of of shuring up the theory you know what I mean like okay well let's at least check this out to see if they were
00:12:54
in witness protection because if they were boom that's the angle this investigation is going to go I don't
00:13:00
think you can cross this one off the list for several reasons many that you already pointed out but one that the
00:13:06
cleanliness of the crime scene the movements of the victims MH and that nothing appears to have been taken you
00:13:14
know that that seems like you said where we have a situation where somebody is getting retribution for something
00:13:21
there's something very strange to me that we have evidence of a gunshot wound to the head you you would see a lot
00:13:30
more blood mhm you'd see a lot more spatter mhm and why would you shoot somebody and then decapitate them right
00:13:41
like that that's that's a I don't know well as you pointed out and that's the same thing that a lot of people point
00:13:46
out here is that the removal of Russell's head and and I you know let's let's not forget that this is probably
00:13:53
the most morbid case we've we we've covered's no going around talking about a severed head well again we should
00:14:02
point out though there is the lake that very big lake nearby I I can agree with most people
00:14:08
when they say that it seems likely that maybe the head was discarded of in the lake at somewhere or some point but
00:14:17
nonetheless the the removal of the head is a sign of disrespect as people point out or perhaps was a message to someone
00:14:26
else MH and some people even point out maybe it was a message to his sons because remember his sons at some point
00:14:33
took over the restaurant business they and there was quite a bit he had franchises yeah I think we said he had
00:14:41
19 franchises at one time wow that he sold to his sons and so if in fact that there was some kind of mafia ties or
00:14:50
this was a mob hit MH the speculation is that maybe his restaurant business or or the son's
00:14:59
businesses which was his at one time somehow involved the mob or the the mafia well I understand that this is
00:15:07
deep speculation but what what about a son with a gambling problem a lot of times they go well we're not killing the
00:15:16
guy with the gambling problem because he's the only way we're going to get our money back but we can kill his parents
00:15:23
MH and we're going to do it in such such a malicious way that we're going to get
00:15:27
our payment especially if they know the person has the the money well then I think that makes for a good segue into
00:15:35
one of the other theories that we mentioned that the possibility that one of the durman kids did
00:15:41
it yeah but the tough thing here is we know that they were all questioned we know that they were all all of them were
00:15:48
Cooperative we don't know of one of them lawyering up that we know of right and they all took polygraph
00:15:56
test right so you're going to tell me that all three of them are geniuses and figured out how to pass the polygraph
00:16:02
test well and like you said they were Cooperative they were all personally interviewed by Sheriff Sills
00:16:09
face-to-face interviews separately several times each um none of them lived in the area
00:16:17
and their cell phone records for the days of May 1st through May 6th show that they were not anywhere near Lake
00:16:24
oone right each of them as you said took ol graph exams they passed those it seems the kids were pretty close to the
00:16:33
parents as well the the other problem with this is that a lot of people point out that this
00:16:40
is a likely scenario because the kids stood to benefit from their parents' deaths where no one else seemed to on
00:16:49
the surface right and some people have even said that their behavior was seen as a Loof or
00:16:55
uncaring because they all returned home very quick quickly after this situation well I love how everybody judges how
00:17:02
other people should react after a death mhm well people also point out that of course they were intimately familiar
00:17:09
with the durman's house with their routine and with the area but the problem with that thought of the kids
00:17:18
benefiting right so how you know Keith Leslie Brad how would they benefit Russell and Shirley
00:17:24
durans they provided for their children after after their death they had set up a will that would provide for all three
00:17:31
of them to split the estate evenly in the event of their deaths this of course could be pointed out for a motive for
00:17:39
murder each one of them stood to inherit quite a bit but the deter but the derans were almost 90 years old yeah so
00:17:48
whoever stood to inherit this money could have just waited a few more years for them to pass on naturally depends on
00:17:57
how big of a pickle you're in well that's interesting because it seems like nothing has come out about any of Keith
00:18:04
Lesley or Brad having significant money TR troubles well I wonder what the arrangement was on buying the
00:18:12
franchises you know you know what I mean like were they paying their father payments did they get a loan through the
00:18:19
bank to buy these things I I cannot say for certain it sounds to me like it was a pretty quick change of hands right cuz
00:18:28
I just wonder if if a bunch of the franchisers are failing or one of the the sons is stealing money from it and
00:18:36
that's the reason why it's failing well get rid of the old man and get rid of our mother as well and and now we don't
00:18:43
have to pay these off these just become ours right but but here's some here's some difficulties here okay um but
00:18:52
before we move on you mentioned Financial issues yeah um there is a rumor out there I couldn't back this
00:18:58
this up what I the the only solid statement I could find was that nothing has come out about any of Keith lesie or
00:19:05
Brad having significant money troubles the rumor that is out there is that there may have been a lean on one of
00:19:12
their homes I don't know which one of the children yeah but the it could be for nothing really some sometimes
00:19:19
there's leans on people's property like a tax lean Le they forgot to pay their property taxes so they got a tax lean or
00:19:26
something it could be a mistake right and that that seems like a very oh man it seems like a very small
00:19:35
motive to kill your parents you know what I mean so and the and the manner in which it's done I mean that has to play
00:19:44
that's that's evidence that we have that has to play uh a factor in when we're looking at these individuals well I but
00:19:52
I I could see you know some issue with your father I mean look at the what was the one that
00:20:00
we did U the American doctor mhm I mean here's this situation brutal murder cuts off the
00:20:11
fingers of the father that is vicious and I think it was postmortem but again we have a severed head
00:20:20
postmortem is there something in the family's past is there some sexual abuse that happened
00:20:28
is there was there any physical abuse that happened that would cause one of the kids to
00:20:36
snap if there was there's nothing to indicate anything like that no record of it every every bit of evidence that
00:20:43
sheriff SS says that he has found regarding the family seems that they were they were close even you know even
00:20:50
though not by proximity but they were close in that they had a loving relationship with their parents you
00:20:55
mentioned something just a second ago though that I wanted to to to piggy back on there you said the manner in MA in
00:21:05
the manner in which this these murders were carried out so while staying on the idea of the kids were the only ones that
00:21:13
had Financial motive to gain from the murders of their parents right let's point out that if one of them did it or
00:21:22
all of them did it let's say why would they try to hide Shirley's body because if her body weren't found which was most
00:21:30
likely the intent of whoever dumped her in the lake right it would tie up the durman's estate since she would have
00:21:38
inherited from Russell meaning the kids wouldn't receive any money until she could be declared legally dead this
00:21:44
would take place 7 years after her disappearance well right but most criminals and most murderers are not
00:21:51
Geniuses so it it might not be something they were thinking of does it make sense no it makes sense
00:22:00
but it's again it's I I see your point I'm pointing out that if you're going to tie up the estate of the people you kill
00:22:07
and maybe they didn't know that these people are 87 years old right I mean how how much longer are they going to live
00:22:15
naturally without risking your your own hide of going to prison for the rest of your life or getting the death sends
00:22:22
right you know because if if she can't be declared legally dead if she's never found and I believe that that seems to
00:22:29
me to be the intent of going to all that trouble to putting her in the deepest part of the lake tying the body down
00:22:37
this would accomplish actually the opposite of the theoretical goal to kill the parents for money well there's a
00:22:45
gunshot to We believe We believe there's some evidence of it right so we believe
00:22:52
there's a gunshot so to me it's like did did you take the head afterwards because
00:22:58
you thought there was a way to trace back the gun that's that's a big looming question in my brain the other one is
00:23:06
did you know it was the deepest part of the lake because to me that would now we're
00:23:13
narrowing the search because if the person knew that was the deepest part then they have to have knowledge
00:23:21
yes of of of that Lake system I I believe that the the whoever did this whoever dumped the body of Shirley knew
00:23:28
that that was one of the deeper parts of the lake yeah and that's that's a game changer and I only say that because we
00:23:34
went over how big the lake was mhm the chances of somebody just you know happening to that to that area just just
00:23:43
getting to that area by luck let's say seems unprobable to me improbable I guess you and I what I also wonder you I
00:23:54
have um some friends that live on on rivers and and things like that and obviously different neighbors that like
00:24:04
canoe and kayaks a lot of those individuals that use the water more they know more about the system but I also
00:24:12
wonder happen stance right the deepest part of the water is that also the most remote part of the water and so is it
00:24:24
happen stance because it it just so happened to be a spot that there's not as many people
00:24:32
around uh again I don't know the the water system that well I don't know that Lake in particular but the way that that
00:24:39
area is described to me would be an area that was somewhat familiar with or a popular fishing location within the
00:24:48
lake so one of the other theories that we touched upon or see then that makes you sorry to catch off but that makes
00:24:55
you wonder is this a fisherman is this a hunter gunshot dump into the body interesting one of the other
00:25:06
theories is was this a hired SL professional hit I think there's a lot of factors in within this theory that
00:25:14
are similar to maybe the mob hit um or a mob killing the other thing though too is you have to wonder could the could
00:25:24
one of the children hired have hired somebody to carry the out it's so difficult
00:25:29
because this keeps I keep going back to the fact that they're cooperative and they all pass polygraph test and I would
00:25:36
assume that during that test there was going to be did you kill your parents did you hire somebody to kill your
00:25:42
parents right do you know of another sibling hiring somebody to kill your parents you you would assume those
00:25:48
questions would be asked and none of the kids turned on each other at any point there doesn't seem to be any squabbling
00:25:55
going on within within the rank there mhm and I think there's a I think there's Credence to this uh Theory I
00:26:04
think there's also a few holes with this Theory I think what you hit upon earlier
00:26:10
of the uh it's likely because of the GSR found on Russell's shirt it seems that there was a gun involved and that he was
00:26:19
likely shot in the head then the head is removed that seems it seems perhaps that Russell's
00:26:27
head may have been removed because of a bullet was lodged in it that could have been traceable to the Hitman right and
00:26:33
could give the police information about what type of gun was used so this seems to be a pretty s significant area I
00:26:41
think the the motive for the head removal is as important as the motive for the murders in the first place or
00:26:47
while why any of this went down at all in the first place but so this seems like seems like also a kind of a a
00:26:56
sophisticated killer that would say all right well I have to remove this head now because I'm I'm with this I'm also
00:27:04
removing evidence connecting me to the actual murder right but then you have a situation
00:27:12
where you have to factor in a mistake that was made the waiting down of Shirley's body which
00:27:18
eventually comes to the surface and and then is found and so that there is the hole in this Theory where you're saying
00:27:26
okay it could be a sophist iated killer that was a hit a hired hit or professional hit on this couple so but
00:27:35
also you would think this person is removing a head in order to remove evidence you would think one they're not
00:27:43
scared of cutting open a person so they're not scared of stabbing the individual in the stomach
00:27:50
and the intestines to get rid of the gases that are going to bring the body up to the top well that among other
00:27:56
reasons is why Sheriff Sills is is quick to point out that look if this was a uh
00:28:02
professional Hitman they would know that a body would surface despite the concrete blocks when in advanced stages
00:28:10
of decom decomposition then some people point out that the killers didn't care if
00:28:17
Shirley's body surface that they just wanted to buy some time to get away and cause confusion as people searched for
00:28:25
Shirley I like Sheriff s take on this where he says you know the removal of the head seems like a sophisticated hit
00:28:36
but under that situation whoever carried this out would have known that that that
00:28:41
Shirley's body would surface at some [Music] point this show is sponsored by better
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00:30:57
Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers um so continuing along the path here Captain one of the theories that
00:31:04
has been presented that I think has some weight to it is it was someone the killer was someone or some ones who had
00:31:11
a beef with one or both of the durans now keep in mind this is a very general theory right and could really include
00:31:20
anyone who crossed paths with the derans at any time in their long lives I think
00:31:26
a lot of aspects about this Theory go along with some of the other theories that we've already discussed so I don't
00:31:33
know how much we have to spin our tires on this one because there are aspects within this theory that would fall into
00:31:40
things like you know the the mafia hit the hired hit professional hired hit or the the one of the durman adult children
00:31:49
did it right um the other one that we got into a little bit and we we just kind of
00:31:56
referenced it in yesterday's show is that this could be a case of mistaken identity now I want to point out that
00:32:05
there is not really a lot to this Theory there's not a lot to back it up just that the killer or Killers mistook
00:32:13
Shirley and Russell for someone else someone that they had intended to Rob or extort for M or murder for any number of
00:32:23
reasons with a crime this inexplicable though was seeming no motive this could be plausible of course the mailbox
00:32:31
outside of their home it very clearly read durman on it in very big letters uh I guess if the killer arrived
00:32:40
by boat maybe they wouldn't have noticed that yeah but it it to me seems Seems farfetched um it seems like
00:32:50
again under this situation the killer or Killers very likely would have no ties to the durans
00:32:58
themselves if it's mistaken identity so as you pointed out several times why all
00:33:03
this movement with the victims why so much work being conducted to to lead you to murder and
00:33:12
then to hide the murders or convolute the crime scene after the fact it's just adding to your risk level of getting
00:33:22
caught or seen uh during the course of any of that of those actions and I just wonder the location what if these
00:33:31
murders took place on the water like on a boat you know what I mean because then
00:33:39
you're not moving her from the house you're returning Russell to the house mhm I got
00:33:48
some very opinionated thoughts on on the murders themselves M and if I dive into
00:33:56
to that now it it won't make as much sense but you're you're kind of tapping on the window there of what some of my
00:34:04
thoughts are so another idea is that it was some type of insane psycho killer who was just looking for victims the
00:34:14
other thought that it would be you know fall under the lines of some type of Thrill Kill striking at random to
00:34:21
satisfy some murderous Rage or that was the work of a serial killer I have some issues with with that thought where I
00:34:30
don't say it's impossible it could certainly be the case mhm but it seems to me again a lot of movements here's
00:34:39
the thing if you're going to if you're striking at random to fulfill some murderous rage a lot of times we've
00:34:45
reviewed a lot of those cases those types of cases and when we've seen those typically the officers describe the
00:34:52
scene as a bloodbath and this is not the situation at the Der 's home at all right and
00:34:59
furthermore it's not it doesn't appear to be any type of sex crime there's no sexual assault or rape involved and then
00:35:06
on top of that we have this too if it's the work of the serial killer well where
00:35:11
is the series of crimes it it it just doesn't too it just doesn't hold up to me that
00:35:19
it I don't think that any of those things work unless it's one of those weird situations where we have somebody that
00:35:26
sets out to to put together this Fantastical murder scene and then they just stop that that
00:35:36
whatever for whatever it did it C it cured them or it it satisi it satisfied the Earth exactly exactly now but yeah
00:35:45
you'd think there'd be something you know within that you know closer to within that time period
00:35:52
another murder and something similar I keep going back to the thought that this is some type of heist and I know that
00:36:01
the big problem with that and this is the problem where I keep I keep scraping my brain here because I'm like nothing
00:36:08
was taken now that we know of that we know of let's Point that's the problem yeah and I'm glad that you bring that up
00:36:14
because some of the stuff like a Rolex that don't that doesn't mean [ __ ] to some people but what if they had well
00:36:21
there's problems there's problems with a Rolex and in items like that too because
00:36:26
if you're looking to turn that into money that can lead to you getting caught right we don't know if they had
00:36:34
Stacks and stacks of cash somewhere I bet there's things that their kids didn't even know about is
00:36:43
there some item that they had that was worth a lot of money or possibly was worth a lot of money mhm or did they
00:36:51
have Stacks and stacks of cash that maybe they didn't tell anybody about and somebody found out about it again my
00:37:00
problem with this idea is why kill her and that fashion why dump her into the water why decapitate this guy M you
00:37:11
don't have to do that to get the prize yeah yeah to me that to me it points in every sign of you are going to
00:37:21
suffer whether it's her going to suffer or he's going to suffer somebody's going
00:37:26
to suffer mhm so yeah well here's one thing that that I want to really kind of dive into
00:37:34
here because I got a lot of opinions on this all right it's been pointed out by Sheriff
00:37:41
Sills that he thinks and this is after years of I mean he says he wakes up thinking about this
00:37:49
case and all he can come up with is that this whole whatever was supposed to go down just didn't go down the way that it
00:37:58
was supposed to and that's why we are uh left with so many questions really what little answers we do have
00:38:07
and what little evidence we do have just adds to the long list of questions well I think we have to
00:38:15
remember that sometimes things just don't make sense that sometimes things just don't add up well his General
00:38:22
thought is that it was the original idea was some type of heist that this was some type of extortion
00:38:29
plot that just went wrong his thoughts are that maybe whoever came to their home they were trying to get from the
00:38:41
durans either something that the durans just didn't have right or didn't have access to could be the wrong person like
00:38:49
you said somebody goes and hears that this couple has something they show up it's it's the wrong
00:38:58
house let us into the safe give us this piece what about this piece of art whatever it is we don't have that we
00:39:05
don't know what you're talking about that goes into gun accidentally going off boom killing the guy now we got to
00:39:13
take his head because we we're leaving behind evidence this is plausible well I think let's talk about
00:39:22
some home invasions that we have discussed already on this show in the past because I think when I see the when
00:39:30
I see the crime scene when I when they describe what it is there what is left the how
00:39:39
Mr Mr durman was dressed MH everything appears to me that this was some type of home
00:39:47
invasion it looks to me like these two individuals were just in their home or on their property going about their day
00:39:55
and it some point they're disrupted by who would end up being the killer or killers in this
00:40:02
situation and so along that thought of a possible home invasion in the past the home invasions that we've covered uh the
00:40:10
ones that come to mind right now the Aurora Hammer Slayer Colorado 1984 M this is a child rapist child killer
00:40:19
Alexander Ying who he killed several people the motive there is rape that's why he entered the home right okay and
00:40:29
very likely rape and murder this guy was was a homicidal maniac yeah piece of [ __ ] these also were very messy crime
00:40:39
scenes so we know that the we have to go off of that rape was very likely not the
00:40:45
motive because that did it just didn't happen then we have a situation where we have like the the Cheshire
00:40:51
murders we have the DC mansion murders and we have Barry and honey Sherman who we talked about yeah it's still it's
00:41:00
still fascinating to me that the Barry and honey Sherman is not solved I know it just took place in
00:41:07
2017 this is another situation where there's a a very clean crime scene uh but the situation here is we
00:41:15
have with the Cheshire murders the motive was money and rape DC mansion murders money uh Barry and honey Sherman it's a
00:41:25
little it's a little undetermined and undecided what exactly the motive was there's thought that it could have been
00:41:32
money could have been for Revenge I think most people point to Revenge as Barry seemed to have created a lot of um
00:41:42
work enemies throughout the throughout his career but in the Cheshire murders it's money and rape DC mansion
00:41:51
murders money Barry and honey Sherman undetermined mhm possibly Revenge so when we look at all those cases when we
00:41:59
look at those four cases the only possibilities that we're left with is that the motive would be money and or
00:42:06
Revenge right so let's kind of T table that just for a moment and and just kind of can we agree that the most likely
00:42:15
motive here is either money or revenge or both MH so one thing that I'm going to kind of just throw out there I don't
00:42:23
have any answers to this I I've I've I've been trying to come up with answers for this for the past few days every
00:42:31
time I come up with what I think is a good answer I then realiz that it's probably not but one thing that that
00:42:37
sheriff Sills has said in some of his interviews that I think is incredibly interesting remember we have the
00:42:46
neighbor who says that they saw a man in the durman's yard on that Saturday yeah
00:42:54
and remember we said well do can we believe this witness or not and we have Sheriff Sills on record in front of the
00:43:02
camera saying he believes this individual and when asked why he believes this individual he says I
00:43:10
believe them because of what they didn't see tells me that they are telling the truth I don't know what that means right
00:43:19
I think what it could mean is that law enforcement does have something some piece of evidence that they have not
00:43:26
told us about to indicate that there is some something of fact that they know that this individual was able to
00:43:34
tell them was not on this person or with this person that they saw MH to back that up
00:43:43
so if Sheriff Sills believes this individual I believe this individual so where I go to with this
00:43:51
extortion plot gone wrong think about both the DC Mansion murder murders and the Cheshire murders what happened in
00:43:58
both of those situations both of those were were well-to-do families and the DC mansion murders
00:44:06
those people were extremely wealthy but in both situations when The Killers got into the home what did they find
00:44:15
especially in the Cheshire murders they found that there wasn't a bunch of valuable things in here or their items
00:44:21
and we don't want to leave with items we need cash right and in the Cheshire casee there was no cash in the house MH
00:44:30
we get to the DC mansion murders there was Cash in the house but uh there were guns in that same location the victim
00:44:38
didn't want this man to be to know that there were guns in the house right because likely the offender was going to
00:44:44
get to those guns before he was going to get to those guns mhm so in both cases we have a situation where somebody spots
00:44:52
this fancy house of these well-to-do people and they assume that there might be a pile of cash inside the
00:45:00
house then they get into the situation and they realize that it's not that and now holy [ __ ] my plan is not going to
00:45:08
work out the way that I thought it would be I actually think in this situation we're probably dealing with somewhat of
00:45:14
s maybe some slightly sophisticated people in the sense that I think they put a lot of time and effort into the
00:45:20
thoughts of carrying out how they were going to extort these people I think that the evidence will
00:45:27
point that this is very likely the situation I think that Russell was held at the home and in the garage I actually
00:45:39
believe he was very likely shot with the single shot to the head in the garage and I think that yes there
00:45:47
there's not a whole lot of evidence to suggest that but there are ways to go about that to help um make sure that
00:45:56
that doesn't happen and in the course of that then now we have the body that was
00:46:00
moved slightly head removed and then then towels put down so that the blood would not seep out from the garage door
00:46:08
onto onto the driveway which may alert somebody that something horrible has happened inside this house but I think
00:46:15
what went down is and this is a little complicated but I think somebody pulled up in a
00:46:22
boat near their home or even possibly at their dock went into the house and it had to have been more than
00:46:32
one person under my scenario right I think Shirley was removed from the home and I think Russell was kept at the home
00:46:40
and I think that whatever they thought they were going to get from these people they could extort it through Russell by
00:46:47
saying we've got your wife elsewhere yeah she's on a boat she's on a boat and out on this big lake and furthermore we
00:46:56
can take her wherever we want to at this point mhm you we need you to stay here stay behind so we can get from you
00:47:03
whatever it is we came to intended to get and I think I think that then what happened was that they realized this is
00:47:13
not so simple that just like the Cheshire murders and the DC mansion murders [ __ ] whatever we came to get
00:47:21
they don't have that in this house yeah or the fact that Russell was a World War
00:47:26
II vet and maybe took his chances I think that plays into it and we're talking about people that didn't even
00:47:32
have ATM cards so then what if they what if the killer finds himself in a situation where not only do they not
00:47:38
have what I came here to get they can't easily access it without or gain access to it without me getting
00:47:46
noticed right you know because let's go in your garage let's get in your car so we can go to the ATM and you can get me
00:47:54
some money since you don't have any money here I don't have a ATM card mhm are you lying to me old man no I don't
00:48:02
have one I'm with you I think that Russ being a World War II vet I think at some point
00:48:09
he turned and he went after this person yeah and I think that that led to his demise I'm not saying he did anything
00:48:18
wrong no cuz I think you need to yeah I I think look in a lot of these cases if you don't go after person you have no
00:48:27
chance and I just keep hearing about these cases when I'm talking to these detectives and and cops working on new
00:48:34
cases for the show and they'll say yeah this guy kidnapped this girl and she had
00:48:40
10 12 chances to run and never did mhm or had five or six chances to fight back and she never did and and they still
00:48:50
caught the person but but she might have been able to save her own life mhm and I
00:48:55
just can't get over that you know the the percentages you know are not in your favor if you don't fight back in the DC
00:49:06
case they had to have somebody bring money to the home to pay the person that was holding them captive yeah the durans
00:49:15
likely didn't have somebody to do this in the Cheshire case they took the mother to the bank and had her withdraw
00:49:26
yeah and they picked they picked up one of the individuals on surveillance and the mother was brave enough to tip off
00:49:32
the people at the bank which ended up leading to the capture and arrest of the two individuals that carried out those
00:49:39
horrible crimes I think we have a situation where maybe the offenders got into a situation where they realized
00:49:46
this isn't going to go the way that I I want and when it wasn't going the way that they wanted they either carried out
00:49:53
one of their threats against Shirley and that's when Russell lashed out or that it just the situation just got murky and
00:50:02
Russell lash lashed out we we're talking about World War II veteran we're we're talking about these were man is in his
00:50:10
80s yeah we're we I understand that he's old but we're talking about a generation
00:50:16
of men and women that that saved the entire world I mean think about that for a minute the these are people that aren't
00:50:23
going to back down and what I think happened here is that these individuals very likely got
00:50:32
away with very little if anything from the home and murder two people for no reason at all at the end of the day with
00:50:39
no gain and the twers theory makes quite a bit of sense but I feel like it's also a risky move because if
00:50:53
you have her out on the water it seems like like you could be surrounded easier I think very likely the movement of the
00:51:01
victims would be by some type of design and by necessity these outcomes are the result of a designed attack structured
00:51:11
by resources and tools that the offenders had with them the killer Killers accessed and left the property
00:51:19
in my opinion via boat so that means that one of the offenders either owned or borrowed a boat at the
00:51:28
time of these murders I think that these men are not criminals in the sense that they are not
00:51:35
thugs but I think they do have some form of Street smarts I think there's probably a leader
00:51:42
of this group and people closest to him like his his wife or girlfriend will know him to be a liar manipulative he is
00:51:52
some form of a small gambler he is someone that not only believes in cheating the system he likely brags to
00:52:02
his significant other about stealing from his employer whether it be money materials or time I think it's also
00:52:11
somebody that hates Authority because through his delusional opinion of himself and his intelligence he thinks
00:52:18
he is the authority I think the important thing here to keep in mind and to really focus
00:52:25
on are some factors of Who's Who these guys could be I think that at least two or more of
00:52:35
these guys are probably into hunting and fishing at least one of them owned a boat at the time of the murders or
00:52:43
borrowed one from someone that he is close to and I think that that's where you might be able to get the crack in
00:52:51
your case where if we have somebody that can come forward and say look I know so and
00:52:58
so and they were out with their buddies on a quote unquote fishing trip and gone
00:53:05
for a large portion of that day or gone for a long period of time and maybe when
00:53:11
that individual returned they weren't the same MH so the boat I think is the key to to finding this person and like
00:53:21
you Captain I believe that at least one of these individuals had a good knowledge a good understanding of that
00:53:28
Lake and for that I feel that out of our offenders I believe that at least two of
00:53:35
them were somewhat local to this crime meaning that they lived in one of the four counties where Lake okone
00:53:45
is this may also require them to drive and own some type of vehicle that would allow them to move a boat where this
00:53:53
case could get some legs is if in fact there were multiple multiple offenders as I pointed out there very
00:54:01
likely was one leader or leaders amongst that group I think that somewhere in that group there might be somebody who
00:54:09
is somewhat of a victim themselves even though they went along with this plot I think that it's somebody that was told
00:54:16
that we are not going to hurt anybody we have nothing to lose we have everything
00:54:20
to gain all we're going to do is go out there and we're going to make some money
00:54:26
and at the end of the day that didn't happen and at the end of the day two people were brutally
00:54:32
murdered I think that there's a chance that this individual feels that they've been bullied because of that situation
00:54:38
they went along with something they didn't fully understand something they didn't fully agree with they've remained
00:54:43
quiet to this day probably out of fear of the leader or the others in the group what we need is somebody that
00:54:53
knows one of these individuals that knew that they were out on the water that day
00:54:58
that knows them to be truly a despicable person to come forward with that information give that name so they can
00:55:06
be looked at so they can be interviewed or we need one member of that group to break Rank and to come forward and not
00:55:14
allow the others in the group to bully them or threaten them further and say look this is what I did this is who was
00:55:22
involved this is how and why why we did it and turn those other individuals in one that's the only way you're ever
00:55:30
going to Free Yourself of the threat of bodily harm or murder to yourself and two this is something you
00:55:39
probably feel extremely guilty for and you should but coming forward and telling
00:55:46
the truth is the first step and freeing yourself of the weight of that guilt now 5 years after the murders we
00:55:55
still have very few Clues as to who murdered Russell and Shirley durman we don't know why or fully how or when
00:56:03
these brutal attacks on this couple occurred but there may be some hope as of March
00:56:09
2019 Sheriff SS says he has a gut feeling about who is responsible for the murders intuition based on his decades
00:56:21
as a law man he says these are two people who have been interviewed and who have
00:56:28
refused polygraph test M he told the media as far back as May 2015 that he had a Person of Interest
00:56:38
Who had not been truthful with him but he doesn't have enough to elevate that person to a suspect Sheriff Sills has
00:56:47
always said that he believed the case involved more than one killer and that it was someone who knew the Der
00:56:55
or whom the durans likely knew in return he adds this was a planned target attack
00:57:03
not randomized violence but it is also indicative of a local someone very familiar with the
00:57:11
lake he says he is convinced The Killers arrive by boat but in recent months he says he's less sure of that but we know
00:57:20
that he has at least one piece of forensic evidence that he will not reveal mhm SS has likened this case to that of
00:57:28
Tera grinstead which broke after a phone call to police 12 years after the fact and resulted in the arrest of two
00:57:36
suspects who were not on investigators radar just like the frustrated sheriff and the durman family all we can do now
00:57:45
is wait to see if something breaks all right and make sure you check us out on the Stitcher app it's free you can
00:58:00
get all of our old episodes and check out our other show off the Record available only on Stitcher premium until
00:58:07
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