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Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life Twisted Mind of a serial killer
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Israel keyed left investigators stunned by telling them he's a serial killer textbook
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serial killer he took pleasure in the act of taking a life there is nothing probably greater
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than holding the power and control of someone's life and looking him in the eye and being able to control all that
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is intoxicating the serial killers textbook serial killer Israel Keys yeah so my understanding is there's
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a letter that he had written to family and it reads like a goodbye letter okay and then they found this 10-page
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document um it's very unique it's written all caps no punctuation no paragraphs so and in it he's giving a
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first pan firsthand account of victims as he's killing them um extremely graphic one of the most disturbing
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things I've ever read my whole career um and there's six victims that are described and it looks like during the
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last description he's interrupted so he's he hasn't finished but that's all we [Music]
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have is there uh a case out there in the True Crime world that you believe is connected to Israel keys that like a
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popular case that maybe people would know yeah you know there's and I am not certain of any I you know I have a list
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of potential victims and there about a dozen where I think there's very very compelling circumstantial evidence but I
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always say shy of physical evidence these are all just theories or ideas or conversations you know the the victim
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that I think is the most plot plausible is not a well-known case it's a man named Jimmy Tidwell but of the
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well-known cases too that come up a lot are Susie Lyall and Lauren spear yeah Susie Lyle has always been probably my
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top case that I feel like is connected to Keys just based on the timing of his enrollment in the military yeah he was
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in the area at the time he had searched her case um there's a very credible sighting of him in a parking lot less
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than a mile from where she disappeared um approaching some woman late at night we don't know which parking lot but we
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know that Susie ly disappeared from a parking lot in the middle of the night so I I and that I mean that's just like
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the tip of the iceberg with circumstantial evidence there's a ton but the fact that we can place him in
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the area at the time and his her name is on his computer is very reasonable evidence for me and then Lauren spear
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was a victim at the University of Indiana do we have any eyewitness sightings of keys in that area at that
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time not at that time uh we do have sightings of him in the area several years prior which is interesting and
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kind of does correlate to his known pattern uh you know going out and burying a cash in Essex Vermont two
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years before abducting the careers from Essex Vermont what's interesting to me and I know this is a very polarizing
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case and a polarizing Theory but Keys flew into Chicago on June 2nd of 2011 and then immediately disappeared we
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can't really Place him anywhere until he arrives at his mother's home in Northeast Indiana a town called Harland
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outside of Fort Wayne on the evening of June 3rd depending on when he landed and
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we don't know for certain we have some ideas but he was missing an action for anywhere from 24 to 36 hours in that
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time Lauren spear disappears from Bloomington Indiana key said that he often would look at articles or you know
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try to check in on his victims and see where the investigations were going but he would never which is not true but he
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said he never Googled them by name what he would do is Google a location and a date uh when his computer was seized he
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had Googled missing Indiana June 2011 when talking about the careers he continually says he'll talk about what
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happened after he abducted them but he will not talk about what happened prior to their abduction on that trip which
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which would also correlate to Lauren Spear's disappearance she disappeared just a week before the couriers that
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stands out stands out to us as well um we actually as asked the FBI about that specific thing because he said that he
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won't talk about anything before the specific date of the couriers which would offer up that entire week that he
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we didn't know if he was talking about he didn't want to talk about the entire week beforehand or just any crimes in
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the Years prior to that um and the FBI basically said they don't really know but it could open up the possibility
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that you know he he actually critted crimes out through Indiana Ohio Pennsylvania New York and Beyond well
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we've actually worked with local law enforcement and they are very collaborative with us or I guess as much
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as they can be and they've said they have not been able to see keys or anyone who looks like him in any of that
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footage however there was a uh I believe a ping on Alaska phone in the area at the time and two other cases uh in the
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True Crime World Brianna Matlin and Mara Murray I know the FBI has asked about Key's involvement in there and they've
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they've ruled out his involvement in the maand case but they would not rule him out as a possibility in Mara Murray's
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case yeah it's interesting uh they ruled him out of the maelin case uh based on a
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financial transaction and we don't know much more about that it was not in any of the uh Case Files that we received I
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would like some clarity around that of the two if Keys is involved I think maand matches Theo much more he used to
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drive the road that she disappeared from and her car was found on all the time it's the road that connects his cabin to
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his family's cabin we have received some potential evidence that could place keys
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at his cabin in Upstate New York the day after Mora disappeared um travel records
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have him flying into Salt Lake City I think a few days before and departing from Salt Lake City a few days after we
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don't really know where he is in the interim um so this newspaper found at his cabin dated the day after Mora's
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disappearance I think is interesting I have always been firmly against Mora being a potential Keys victim but I am
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now open to it I guess in terms of at least continuing to investigate only to rule her out but at this point finding
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that newspaper kind of changed the game for me um and I think there is some some
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stuff in her case that does align with things we know about Keys including cars he drove at the time or cars he had on
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his property at the time I would say one argument probably against that is that he I think it was during The Courier
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trip is when he said that he was starting to feel like he wanted some attention and notoriety for what he was
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doing and he started take things started take on a little more risk um and the more case is just such a massive case I
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I can't imagine that that wouldn't have fulfilled that need um beforehand what's
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interesting though is it didn't really become a like a national news case till much later because I looked into this I
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I did a bunch of Google Trend analysis and like Mora Marie didn't really make it into the American lexicon until 2010
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2011 yeah and it would have been way bigger after that after his suicide yeah in fact she she she became more of a
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true crime household name after her disappear disappeared uh episode came out which I think was in 2011 or 2012
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what is the importance of finding these additional kits well I think it's probably the most important thing
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because we feel it's the we feel and the FBI feels it's the best way to locate a
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victim they believe that he kept souvenirs in the kits so it's opportunity if we find one to be able to
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give that to the FBI and then let them go through and look for any DNA or any sort of souvenirs that he may have left
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Left Behind how do you guys go about searching for these just close your eyes and walk
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through the woods just just kid it's yeah sorry dakot is this is this where you're
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supposed to yeah there's a lot a lot to the process and uh there's a lot of research that goes into it um as Josh
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joked we get we get [ __ ] on a lot as if we're just uh kind of hustling through
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the woods expecting to find something and that's really not um how we operate but uh like Josh said it's we think it's
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super important to find something like this to um be able to match evidence to an unknown victim and we think that
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there's a there's plenty of information in the case File and in the interrogations that we can kind of
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analyze you know his his behavior his the way he talks about things to be able to figure out how he operated the Essex
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cach is a perfect example of that he told this whole the whole story from basically beginning to end of how he ACC
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how he when he hid the cash how he accessed it what he used it for when he rear when and where he reburied it or
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rehit it and so we have all this information of how he operated with these caches and if we pay attention to
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his timeline and his movements throughout the years you can start to put a picture together of where cashes
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might be based on his activity and they also have a few caches that Israel LED them to led the FBI to so we have been
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able to go to these locations and actually view the sites to look for landmarks to be able to compare them to
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other other sites oh well one thing I want to point out is that speaking with special agent uh holla he you know we
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agree with him that he brings it up and he's very motivated in in the fact that he believes that the public is going to
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be our best resource in finding these caches because um it's very possible that they've already been found or will
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be found and they just need to be reported through the proper channels to be connected to the case um and so we
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think that that's a that there's a good you know possibility there that you know
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members of the public can help us connect these things to the case so if you found something like
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this you need even if you've already reported it to local law enforcement make sure to report it again to the FBI
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um so that if it is one of keys caches we can connect it and hopefully use the evidence to identify other victims and
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that's already proven to be pretty fruitful um you know we've had a few tips that now after the the guys have
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talked to the FBI uh We've find even more credible um and I don't know if you guys want to talk about that further
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basically whenever we started to team up with with Josh and his team we were lucky enough to start sharing
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information before we even formed a partnership and one of Josh's team members Kim K she brought Josh a tip
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that he gave to us and we gave to the FBI and it end up turning to the biggest piece of evidence that has been released
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since Israel Keys killed himself so and we will be releasing that in our next episode where're doing a joint episode
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um we'll be releasing that episode uh right after the show so definitely come and listen I I was just going to say
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well a that's the cool thing about this is you know you have three different groups who are you know probably the
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three most informed groups on Keys all working independently well up until a certain point who see things from
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different perspectives and glom onto different details and are doing wildly different investigations and then those
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three groups all came together and we found the biggest piece of EV evidence in the keys case since his death and I
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think that really speaks to the power of collaboration just how great it is that
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the guys made this connection you know deep connection with holla and then my team independently was doing work and
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once the three of us all shared you know the separate pieces of information we had we were able to confirm and
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corroborate uh and find something Monumental it's really cool and then second you know I had gotten a tip a few
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years ago about woman who believed she encountered keys with a cash um and the guys took that to holla and that is you
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know it's not quite as fruitful yet but we are able to kind of move along and and at least investigate that with a
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little more credibility yeah and it just it just really shows like how you know in in a real-time investigation that the
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teamwork and the collaboration can totally change the trajectory you know of and the ress of
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thisa of any case but you know this is our case that we're working on and so it just shows that you know there's there's
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so much information out there to be uncovered and we're all looking at it from a different perspective and with
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different talents um and if you bring all that stuff together I mean we can I really feel like we can make some big
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progress so the list of potential victims is unfortunately rather long but there were some that I were a little
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more interested in than some of the others in particular Washington State and Joshua and Dakota that's kind of
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your neck of the woods and it it it sounds like their suspicion that there could be as many as five potential
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Israel Keys victims in Washington state so the FBI believes there are actually Four not five so they they do have they
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think that he killed somebody else while he was still living in Washington and that was his first victim they believe
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it was between July 2001 and October 31st 2001 but the murder didn't take place inside the state of Washington but
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they don't know what state it was they just know that it wasn't in Washington the four victims um that they think most
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likely happened around the 2000 to 2005 to 2006 area two of the victims have been described as a couple which I
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talked about earlier um it's it's unknown at this point how they were connected they did ask him if they were
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um you know in a a married couple boyfriend girlfriend a partnership of any sort and he he didn't elaborate on
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that but we know it was a male and a female and that they went into a hole and that the male was killed with a
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shovel and as I said before it was another premature um quote unquote premature death um he was trying to keep the the
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victim quiet uh the female he said was stabbed and strangled strangled they believe that those two victims were
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killed in Eastern Washington um and they have kind of a time frame that they believe that's happened but um I'd need
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to confer with Josh about a few things before we we get into the details of that um and then the two other victims
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he was able to uh purchase a boat from his wife's ex-husband he talked about disposing of two victims from this boat
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they he thinks they think that the victims were placed in two separate locations two separate Lakes one they
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believe was Lake Lake Crescent and uh Josh was actually given access to go and search that lake so I'll give him some
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time to to speak about that it's really exciting but he submerged that victim with
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of concrete that he had filled and and submerged them in the lake and they believe that the other victim is
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potentially in Lake hosette but that is all just speculation for right now that's just a place that he visited very
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often and he was really interested in very deep Lakes one thing that's important about the Washington victims
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is during one of the interrogations they're trying to decide on how the Washington victims could be a federal
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case and at this point Israel had already known that transporting a victim across state
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lines would be instantly a federal crime so during the conversation he's trying to figure this out and so we asked
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special agent Hull about that it sounds like all four victims were actually taken in Washington not from out of
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state and they don't know for sure where they resided only that they would that they were taken while they were in
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Washington state which makes the way that he hunted early on and tried to get victims early on his career was by going
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to Trail heads and Parks um it makes a lot of sense that you would run into more tourists in that area too so it
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would probably confuse things even more if they go missing by by national park or something like that um so yeah they
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think all four victims were taken in the in Washington not brought from out of state what about possibly connecting him
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to these murders in boo ratton Florida that that was a case that we covered on True Crime garage a long time ago where
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somebody was abducting people from the parking lot of a popular shopping mall down there and
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it's believed that that there were three I think there were three attacks and abductions in total but in two of the
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situations resulted in murder and one of those cases was a double homicide is there is there anything connecting him
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to those murders down in Florida or or is keys I imagine in a lot of these situations it's like in Ed Edwards
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situation where some somebody's saying like oh there's you have these 10 unsolved homicides
00:19:03
that took place scattered throughout the United States well it must be is real keys I looked into this pretty
00:19:09
extensively only because I had just seen it coming up over and over and over again and I was pretty skeptical about
00:19:15
it from the jump it just nothing about it matched K's known Mo these are often exceptions to the rule he doesn't live
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by these he often will you know engage in crimes of opport opportunity or in in crimes of immediacy but I I just don't
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see him committing non-sexually motivated crimes in Big City centers in broad daylight
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surrounded by lots of people just none of that matches anything we know about geese or the way he intended to operate
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that said there are some sketches that look a lot like him uh but you know for two of them we can't place keys anywhere
00:19:59
at the time that they occurred but for one of them and I always say with keys like anything is possible but in this
00:20:06
case it would be virtually impossible for him to have been in Florida when the attack occurred um you know like I said
00:20:15
he's tricky uh but it would be very very challenging for him to be in that parking lot when the attack occurred
00:20:23
just based on where we can place him surrounding the attack so Israel Keys is he baffles me because we don't have a
00:20:32
type of victim it seems like to me and then there's this other speculation that maybe he killed children so that makes
00:20:41
things a lot more difficult yeah um the kids thing is interesting and again you know as we talked about he's not really
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a liar per se um or when he is lying he's very bad at it he said that after his child was born he he didn't go after
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kids anymore and I believe that as much as you can believe anything out of a serial Killer's mouth um he did say in
00:21:05
one of his last interviews that he knew he was losing control later on in his criminal career because he doesn't
00:21:11
usually go after kids maybe that means he put a child at risk or entered a home with a kid or maybe that means he
00:21:18
actually planned on or did Kill a Kid later on in his criminal career but I would say again those are exceptions I I
00:21:26
do believe that he probably did not kill kids for the majority of his criminal career his Evolution like we're talking
00:21:33
about 14 years here and so you know his definition of what a kid is could have changed throughout that time you know he
00:21:43
he you know when he starts this he's a young man so maybe his definition of a child at
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that point was different than it was 14 years later I hate to harp on this but I
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think it's one of the most fascinating fascinating Parts about the case is the the skull drawings and the
00:22:04
pentagram can we just go around the room just just to get a clear sense of because you guys I I'm guessing have
00:22:14
different differing opinions on what this means or if it means anything and and and speak on the the
00:22:23
skulls the pentagram and the um the one skull that says we We Are One um I'll start since I I'll probably be the
00:22:32
quickest I think it it means something and it means nothing I think the number is just [ __ ] I think he's feeding
00:22:40
into the FBI's Narrative of 11 victims I think the there is meaning to you know the idea behind it the the
00:22:52
blood and the skulls and the We Are One um and and I'm sure the the guys will elaborate on that but I I I think the
00:23:02
number of skulls that he painted is is fairly meaningless I I I tend to agree with
00:23:07
Josh about the number I think that you know he's he's uh letting the FBI believe what they want to believe as far
00:23:15
as the number of victims as far as like the the the visuals that this produces he's he I I really think that he's
00:23:23
trying to instill some like deeper meaning to his actions he knew knew he was a you know a murderous piece of [ __ ]
00:23:31
and that he was trying to like make himself seem more you know mystical or mysterious than than he really was um I
00:23:41
I tend to think that uh you know it was a it was kind of a last ditch effort to to be important I don't have much to add
00:23:49
to that but I will say that when we release a new piece of evidence on October 20th um we we are really excited
00:23:57
to bring that component into the conversation with the FBI profilers because there could be something
00:24:04
combined with all these pieces put together that could could lead to something important but at this point
00:24:10
yeah I I wonder if this is the same time that he was writing those suicide notes
00:24:16
we wanted we're going to ask specially Hall about that to see if it was the same day so I'm wondering if he was
00:24:21
actually writing those suicide notes and this was just before he was about to commit suicide initially and he was
00:24:26
interrupted or if it was just two separate events but other than that is just trying him just trying to show
00:24:32
ownership of these four unfortunate victims yeah I completely agree with you Josh that I think that now that we have
00:24:42
the information on the suicide and we have the information about the skull drawings that we're at a different time
00:24:48
that we're able to kind of put the suicide note the goodbye letter um the skull drawings and the cell
00:24:55
drawings or writings all together and analyze it as a whole which will hopefully you know bring new information
00:25:04
to light the picture of bamet that was included with the skull drins which is the horn goat with the pentagram is
00:25:12
satanic imagery and I think that uh you know he he talked about this in the interrogations of of like his
00:25:21
motivations or him trying to come to terms with you know the the sexual sat that he was and I have a quote here
00:25:31
somewhere um here we go and so in the 710 interview he says back then and he's talking about when he was late teens
00:25:40
early 20s um he says back then I thought I was a Satanist I had a different philosophy than I do now my philosophy
00:25:48
changed on what I wanted or My Philosophy changed on why I wanted to do it at the time I thought I was into the
00:25:55
whole Satanist symbolism stuff then over the next few years I realized I didn't believe in any of that stuff it was just
00:26:02
a justification and I realized I wanted to do it because I wanted to do it and so he says himself
00:26:10
that before his incarceration that he had already come to terms with the fact that he didn't believe any of that [ __ ]
00:26:18
that he wasn't a Satanist he just wanted to murder because he wanted to murder um and so I find it very
00:26:24
interesting the fact that he's kind of going back to that ideology and this and this symbolism with um Satanism when he
00:26:34
says himself that he doesn't believe any of that stuff what's also interesting with that is the he branded himself over
00:26:41
his on his body so he had several brands that can upside down cross I believe a smiley face uh an anarchy symbol and I
00:26:49
believe there are a couple other I can't recall at the moment there was a pentag
00:26:52
um pentagram thank you sorry um and one thing that's interesting about the drawing in this cell is the pentagram is
00:26:59
actually reversed and with the two points projecting upwards it's uh normally a pentagram is actually a
00:27:05
symbol of unity which would make sense if he's trying to say that they are all one but this reverse pentagram with the
00:27:12
two points projecting upwards is a symbol of evil and it attracts uh like Sinister forces basically so it's a
00:27:19
completely different meaning and uh one thing about the about the brands just to
00:27:26
throw this in there uh they had asked his ex-girlfriend about his branding and you know she she was
00:27:36
uh in the medical field so she knew about wounds and and things like that and there's a specific note where they
00:27:43
had asked her about how the brands were done and she wasn't really sure but she assumed just heating up metal and then
00:27:49
applying to the skin like a coat hanger or something like that when they go into
00:27:53
the detail they start asking her questions there's one in particular that they were asking about that must have
00:27:58
been done very poorly or left a very um bad scar uh so there's a question as whether they they were trying to ask her
00:28:07
if they think that he would brand himself either after a victim or while with a victim because he talks a lot
00:28:15
about going out and having to smoke with these victims he talked about having a cigar or yeah I think a cigar or
00:28:21
cigarette with the rain curer same thing with Samantha kig um and they were sort
00:28:25
of insinuating that the I believe the happy face brand was actually done with a sort of a cigarette or a cigar and and
00:28:34
this is all again later on in life after he claims to have no longer believed in
00:28:38
Satanism that he's still attaching these different images to himself you just riled up all the uh happy face truth
00:28:49
serial killers oh [ __ ] yeah yeah thanks I I've that too because he he you part of his kill kit
00:29:01
was a camp stove which you know there are about a million very nefarious things we can think about him using that
00:29:08
camp stove for but I've always wondered if perhaps it was as part of a branding thing and not a torture thing like you
00:29:15
said he identified himself at some point as a Satanist do we have evidence or anybody talking about whether he studied
00:29:25
being a Satanist or and or or studying anything of the cult yeah he talked about it I mean you
00:29:33
know I I guess it would depend on your definition of studied but he read a lot about the oul Satanism serial killers um
00:29:43
I I believe he even had like a Satanist pack in um in the bag that he took on this first you know his definition of
00:29:52
rape is very strange but this first sexual assault that he committed in either 97 or 98 um he said that he
00:29:59
wanted to bring Satanism into it so yeah he doesn't go into detail about like what books he read or how long he was
00:30:05
studying it but it was clearly something he had read up on and I think it has everything to do with his I mean at
00:30:10
least that aspect the Satanism aspect especially earlier in life has everything to do with his upbringing his
00:30:17
family was very involved in you know religious cults and things like that and his Mo mother was extremely religious in
00:30:25
different variations throughout his childhood and he said himself that you know that
00:30:31
that he thought that the Satanism aspect was him kind of lashing out and being really angry at his religious upbringing
00:30:39
yeah you can see throughout his life a lot of what he did was in in Rebellion to his upbringing you know he was raised
00:30:46
in a uh essentially Neo-Nazi church that did not value minorities specifically gay people and
00:30:55
black people and you know he married a black woman and was was a bisexual man uh I don't think he was bisexual out of
00:31:01
rebellion but I I do think a lot of what he did in life was in direct conflict of
00:31:06
how he was raised he joined the army which was very uh against his family and his religious
00:31:23
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00:35:40
that was found in the cell but you know he says at some point I realized I didn't believe in any of that [ __ ] and
00:35:49
that's not what he was about he claims one thing we do know about him is that all of his murders are premeditated
00:35:56
to how far in advance they were predetermined victim or or location or otherwise is sounds like it's Up For
00:36:07
Debate it makes me wonder how premeditated was his suicide and how much of this stuff that
00:36:16
you know like the skulls and the pentagram was that things that he was we know they they were done well in advance
00:36:23
but is that stuff that he was putting into place to lead up to the to his his demise and and leave
00:36:32
these questions afterwards I also wonder again going back to the daughter is the
00:36:38
pentagram in the cell an out in a way of you know I was driven by Satan I you know not in control of of who I was I
00:36:47
you know or born evil something of that nature yeah and I think that you know that the skull drawings like we said
00:36:53
were done at a different time from from when he could was able to accomplish suicide but it's very
00:37:00
possible that he was trying to commit suicide in at that time and maybe that that was the message that he wanted to
00:37:08
leave I really think he was just trying to yeah like give meaning or almost an excuse of why he was the person that he
00:37:18
was so do we believe that Israel Keys was concerned about how his family or how his daughter would see him yeah I
00:37:27
think it it changed during his incarceration not so much with his kid but with the rest of his family he
00:37:33
definitely wanted to protect them for whatever reason uh from what he had done and how he would be viewed in the world
00:37:41
I I do know however that you know no one believed no one in his life believed he
00:37:45
was capable of these things and you know in the last months of his life he was writing letters that were confiscated
00:37:52
saying like yeah I did do these things um but when it came to his kid it seemed to the very end he did what he could to
00:38:00
shelter her from knowing who he actually was well I I think it's important to know that he was willing to talk to the
00:38:07
FBI but he was willing to give up information only in trade and the trade was that he would give more information
00:38:15
on his crimes and victims only if the FBI kept him and his name out of the media and so that and then the other the
00:38:25
other thing he wanted was an exped Ed um execution it's surprising because he liked to talk about it but at the same
00:38:33
time he did not want the media coverage and the only reason I can think of why that was a motivation for him is to
00:38:42
protect his family and specifically his daughter yeah I think it's really easy particularly with you know the history
00:38:47
of serial killers to conflate wanting to talk about his crimes with wanting attention for his crimes and I think
00:38:55
with keys like those two things are not in relation to one another I think he enjoyed talking about them because he he
00:39:03
didn't have to live in secrecy anymore but I don't think it was about garnering media public worldwide attention like I
00:39:11
said earlier I think he would hate the fact that we're sitting here having this conversation for you know millions of
00:39:16
people to hear um and then yeah to Dakota's point he very much went in the reason most people didn't know about
00:39:23
Keys till very recently was because of this deal he made with the FBI uh which he even said was like I want to
00:39:30
protect my family I don't want my kid to hear about this stuff it's it's also interesting because there's so much
00:39:34
material available that you're able to see it in different points in his life that he almost seemed conflicted about
00:39:41
it I think in 2001 there's a he had spoken to a girlfriend at the time and said that um he had there a Darkness
00:39:50
surrounding his heart or a Blackness surrounding his heart and you know later on right before he was actually
00:39:56
apprehended he was seen crying and and saying that you don't know the things that I've done to his family members uh
00:40:05
in Texas so there's this strange it's it's really strange to me where it seems like he does he is aware that what he is
00:40:14
doing is bad and not that he feels remorse for it but it could be just the idea of him realizing that eventually my
00:40:22
family's going to find out about that and then maybe the shame that comes along with that I I I don't know don't
00:40:26
really know where to put that but it's interesting to be able to see that two sides of of somebody so terrifying yeah
00:40:34
even in very strange places we've been doing a lot of data mining using um you know internet breaches and Google Trends
00:40:42
to track his online activity and we were able to find a screen name that he was using on discuss which is like a comment
00:40:51
uh app and under you know what he thought was anonymity he had said to someone like what if I was a
00:41:00
serial killer uh with a young child who had killed 50 people would you say that to me then uh
00:41:07
so it just goes back to this like he wanted to talk about it and he wanted to get reactions but he didn't want the
00:41:14
attention it's it's a very strange uh dichotomy well it seems like the you know that like we talked about this in
00:41:21
our first episode The Duality of his personalities like I'm not saying he's a split personality or anything like that
00:41:27
but he definitely had two different lives he was leading and they were completely in conflict with one another
00:41:34
one thing that is strange is this disappearance of Jimmy Lamar Tidwell Jr is there anyone that can talk about the
00:41:42
details of that and why Keys might be linked to this disappearance yeah this is you know I've looked at probably 70
00:41:53
missing persons cases as being plausible possible keys cases and Jimmy Tidwell is
00:41:59
far and a way to me the most compelling he disappeared we're not really sure when he worked the swing shift uh at a I
00:42:09
want to say pipe fitting company uh in East Texas uh and we know he got off uh at around I think 300 a.m. on February
00:42:21
15th of 2012 we don't know whether he made it home or not he just disappeared at some
00:42:28
point following his shift from work was never seen again he for his job wore construction helmet construction goggles
00:42:36
construction gloves he at the time had long thinning uh like grayish brown hair and his car was eventually found I I
00:42:46
want to say six miles from his house on an Old Farm Road his helmet was not in there his helmet disappeared with him at
00:42:54
the time he disappeared Keys was in Texas uh his phone was turned off and uh he told his family that he had gotten
00:43:03
stuck in the mud at a mall parking lots uh for two days he did later say that he
00:43:08
got stuck in the mud on that trip he didn't confirm that it was on that two-day window or where it happened um
00:43:15
but what we do know is when Jimmy Tidwell went missing about 200 miles away Keys was also missing with his
00:43:23
phone off Jimmy disappeared from an area that Keys's family was about to move to
00:43:28
he's actually bought 2 days after Jimmy's disappearance from the Walmart closest to Jimmy's house which at that
00:43:35
point he had no Geographic ties to lubricant a folding shovel and air freshener we know Keys was a necropile
00:43:43
that's compelling but also you know I've talked to Bobby shakon who briefly worked the case uh and just all also
00:43:51
through my research there is a trend that Keys would often look to or actually commit burglaries and arson
00:43:59
following his murders he even talked about prolonging the High um The Day After Jimmy Tidwell disappeared
00:44:07
Keys uh set a house on fire in Alo Texas and then drove to ail Texas where he robbed a bank and um I can jump in
00:44:16
really quick just to add to that the the the receipt that they found that said there was a shovel lube and an air
00:44:24
freshener doesn't really State what kind of lube it is and it could have been something and I
00:44:29
say that because it could it could be for the obviously nefarious reason but it could also be as a way to kind of
00:44:36
bury another cash and prep weapons before he buries them so either way it's it doesn't look good um but it's just a
00:44:44
different way to look at at that I guess when they eventually confirmed it was Keys who robbed the spank and ail they
00:44:50
pulled up the surveillance and keys is wearing a construction helmet and he has long stringy hair in it and they asked
00:44:59
him where he got the hair from and he said that it was human hair very very compelling circumstantial evidence the
00:45:06
only other plausible suspect in Jimmy's disappearance is his wife um and we have
00:45:11
the local Case Files local law enforcement case files and they don't say why but they say that they have
00:45:17
ruled her out she however you know was not a great witness she changed her story a couple times so I want to put
00:45:24
that out there but I I just the the evidence for keys is pretty overwhelming there's some other factors we know that
00:45:30
Keys often trolled Craigslist and right before Jimmy disappeared he had posted on Craigslist that he was selling his
00:45:36
washer and dryer Jimmy lived in a very rural area uh in a house that was under construction so you know again goes with
00:45:45
the geography and anthropology of K's emo of going to far away places where there aren't going to be Witnesses and
00:45:52
places that he can blend in well this is what's fascinating CU you said you believe
00:45:57
there's some evidence of digital contact with these victims I it's something we're pursuing because we've
00:46:10
seen patterns um there has not been any definitive proof yet but we have seen some of the same stuff come over and
00:46:19
over and over again we also know for a fact and have copies of it where Keys was going online and commenting on
00:46:26
articles about his victims was he using false identification at any time because
00:46:32
it like he's trying to muddy the waters and really cover his tracks and and really not let people know where he is
00:46:39
at certain times but to fly into Chicago I mean you you purchase there's a paper trail right you purchase that
00:46:47
that plane ticket and you can drive as far as you want but he rented a car and then he checks into a hotel it it seems
00:46:55
like I don't know it seems very like I'm going to these Great Lengths and and all
00:47:01
this effort to to distance my physical self from where I actually am but meanwhile it seems like very novice of
00:47:10
him of a like a rookie mistake that that yes there's a paper trail I kind of think that was actually part of it um
00:47:18
he's setting up his own aliis by having these points on a map but then he's dist
00:47:23
distancing himself from those points and even with William in the ring Courier you know his Alibi was that he was going
00:47:29
to be fish in that area he bought a fishing license for those that three days slot that he would be in town so
00:47:35
while he was there if he ever did question about it he would be able to say no I was just there fishing that's I
00:47:39
was just passing through I always pass through this area um and he went to the same hotel that he he' been to multiple
00:47:45
times so I think it was just a way for him to he absolutely could have used different different IDs but I think he
00:47:52
tried to set it up in such a short amount of time that it seemed impossible for him to even be considered suspect
00:47:57
yeah I agree we've had a few people come forward and say they know for a fact that he used or had fake IDs but we
00:48:04
haven't been able to like credibly vet those uh comments but to Josh's point I think he was he was more interested in
00:48:13
muddying where and when he was um so another example is he would he bought two fishing licenses in two states for
00:48:20
the two same for the same two-day period um or there's at least one instance where he checked or he booked two
00:48:28
different hotel rooms in two different cities for the same night so I think stuff like that where he could plausibly
00:48:33
say like oh I was going to go there but I changed my mind or like oh yeah I was just there for a few days to fish and
00:48:39
then I left um and that goes back to him planning his crimes in conjunction with
00:48:43
events whether it be cruises or visiting family or family birthday parties or whatever and correct correct me if I'm
00:48:50
wrong here um you guys but did he wasn't he booked in the hotel room in Texas right before his arrest wasn't he booked
00:49:00
in that hotel room under an alias like Isaiah or something like that yeah yeah but there is you know in Vermont he used
00:49:09
his identification to book that room but when they took his license plate uh for
00:49:14
parking he changed one digit on the license plat and changed the issuing state so instead of being New Hampshire
00:49:23
I think he said it was Arizona and then instead of being like one two three he said it was 132 and that could have also
00:49:29
just been human error like it's very easy to say like everything is intentional um but yeah he did small
00:49:36
things to muddy his digital or Geographic Footprints and they keep a database of those of fishing licenses
00:49:45
and Hunt hunting licenses as well so it's it's I don't know again I I find it strange going to all these efforts to
00:49:52
the I mean the paper trail would have been the same if he would have just flown to Vermont you know it's it seems
00:49:57
like he's creating all this extra work but like the captain said who knows what he did between Chicago and Vermont
00:50:06
exactly well and I know some of this information is is sensitive and you guys have worked with the FBI and you you
00:50:13
still have a lot of work that's still going on and going forward that you're going to continue with but you guys know
00:50:20
me I'm sensitive or not I'm going to needle you for information you you you knew walking
00:50:28
into this that that was going to happen so with without being too yeah without being too descriptive here I'm going to
00:50:35
I'm going to demand an answer but within that case File and the information that
00:50:39
you guys have reviewed you know you talked earlier about the process of going to locations and attempting to
00:50:46
recover these items what what are the states of of significance to those future searches states that you're more
00:50:59
concerned with right because we have the we have 50 states in the United States which ones are you prioritizing based
00:51:04
off of that information as opposed to ones that just don't seem so interesting to you I think we probably each have a
00:51:11
different answer for this I would I would bet but i' I'd say definitely right now our main focus is uh
00:51:18
Washington the Olympic Peninsula and the surrounding areas um that's where our entire first season is taking place in
00:51:25
New York uh we know was speaking with the FBI that they found a a cach recently in New York and
00:51:33
it was they turn turned out to not be connected to Keys um but they still expect there to be uh caches in New York
00:51:41
and uh obviously there's Vermont Maine Texas is a very high priority for us um he stated a place in one in Wyoming um
00:51:52
that's that's huge and uh the FBI also told us that there's a chance though they believe that either there's a cash
00:51:59
or a victim in Oregon um but like I said I think all of us probably have our own opinions um
00:52:04
just by the way that we look at the case yeah the crazy thing is is we have leads
00:52:09
all around the country and we kind of have to prioritize them um you know mostly because of time and resource
00:52:20
limitations um but so we have to kind of see which ones are the most valid and kind of go after those first and like
00:52:26
Josh said the Olympic Peninsula in Washington since he spent so much time there and was so active in Washington we
00:52:34
think at least personally I think that there's more crimes to uncover in Washington and the evidence and these
00:52:41
caches that could still be there are of the most interest to us um and so you know like places that he went and
00:52:51
frequented the only things we know are what he told the FBI um but we know that he also spent time with people in these
00:53:00
locations you know spots like Lake Crescent Beaver Lake Lake oette uh Port Angeles squim um these are all really
00:53:08
high value places for us as far as information and so um there's I mean but the the leads are kind of taking us all
00:53:19
around the country yeah for me I have like hot spots of likely activity um and so Pennsylvania West Virginia is one
00:53:27
Upstate New York to main is another Texas Louisiana Alabama Tennessee is one the four corner States then Washington
00:53:36
Southern California Northern California and Wyoming are kind of my priorities right now I don't think any of us
00:53:43
mentioned Alaska did we okay oh well that's obvious yeah that's one spot that's really high on our list
00:53:50
to go see because we haven't been to the the spot where they discovered a cach there and that's that's something I
00:53:55
really am excited to get to what's your guys's call to action on your guys's podcast regarding this case what what is
00:54:01
the FBI working on now what do they want the public to know because they've they've made a a reach out to the public
00:54:09
on at least two or three occasions right looking for more information about Israel Keys the FBI is absolutely still
00:54:16
involved um they're partici participating in a bunch of media events to try to get the word out about the
00:54:21
caches because they think that is the best opportunity to find a victim and they think that cashes have been found
00:54:27
and just not reported so I think just getting awareness out that if you found something like this or if you stumble
00:54:34
across something like this make sure you do not touch it you do not open it you just report it to the police and then
00:54:39
let them take it take over from there um but in you know the coming months there
00:54:43
will be a few docu series released there's been a few more podcasts started up about Israel keys and the FBI has
00:54:50
been taking part in those podcasts like like ours they're going to be working with Josh as well to try to spread the
00:54:56
word because they really the the chance of them finding a victim just by stumbling across it is going to be so
00:55:04
difficult um so they think this is the best Avenue to find to find victims has Israel Keys family members or friends
00:55:14
have any of them been Cooperative with either one of your guys' investigations yes yeah I won't name who because they
00:55:21
want anonymity but I've talked to three members of his family and one uh Ono going they all uh as far as I can tell
00:55:30
want answers um they don't want families to be wondering what happened to their loved ones um I think they take on as
00:55:38
much as they emotionally can because it's easy to forget that you know his crimes impact his family as much as they
00:55:44
impact the families of the people he's harmed um but yeah they everyone I've talked to and everyone I've heard about
00:55:51
or heard from like they want to see the FBI continue looking into this they want
00:55:56
to see closure they want to see cases get solved um and so yeah it's been really lovely CU I think that's the fear
00:56:04
going into this is am I going to hurt the these invisible victims and thank God that hasn't been the case and and
00:56:11
you guys probably have all different opinions but what do you think is the most fascinating thing about the
00:56:17
investigation or about Keys himself why not just you but like you said all these other shows popping up
00:56:26
what do you think that a lore is or what is the lore for you for me which I I tend to think is probably a a a general
00:56:35
allore is everything about this case is is the opposite of what we're accustomed
00:56:41
to um like we know the killer but not the victims that there is a modern-day serial killer operating in all 50 states
00:56:51
where men women and children could be targets and no one even knew he existed till after he was apprehended and dead I
00:56:58
think it brings together a lot of components of True Crime into a single case and then it the narrative is the
00:57:05
exact opposite of how we're used to learning about cases um you know he committed arson and burglaries he
00:57:13
murdered people he planned his crimes well in advance he was a family man who was adored by his community I just think
00:57:20
in many ways keys not only breaks serial killer archetype but he is the ultimate
00:57:26
Boogyman because any one of us could have been his victim yeah the case for me it's that that the case is so
00:57:33
expansive and we have so much information about his crimes yet we kind of have nothing and so there's all these
00:57:43
unanswered questions yet we have thousands of pages of information and and hours upon hours of
00:57:53
interrogations yet we still can't answer a lot the questions and I think for me it's he is just the scariest person
00:58:01
alive or now dead but the scariest serial killer ever because I've my wife and I do a lot of backpacking and it's
00:58:08
always been the biggest fear of somebody just attacking our tent in the middle of
00:58:12
the woods and to find that there's somebody out there that was trying to do something very similar it's just
00:58:18
absolutely terrifying to me but what really sucks me in is that because there is so much information kind of like I
00:58:24
alluded to before I just feel like if there 's there is a pattern that I think can be solved and with that just it
00:58:31
could just be the next piece of big information that blows this whole thing wide open and I think once you find one
00:58:38
more victim once you find one more cash one more bank robbery it just puts another point in the map that can be
00:58:44
connected to other points and you can start to really dive in even further it's basically just one giant puzzle
00:58:49
that we have access to the information to and I think that's a really intriguing part of it it really it
00:58:55
really sucks you in once you start getting involved in it and I think we all just kind of crossed the Rubicon on
00:59:01
that I think a lot of the cards are about to start falling get [Music] ready want to thank you all for joining
00:59:16
us here in the garage for this special conversation about seral killer Israel keys this is part one and part two make
00:59:24
sure you check out true crime [ __ ] wherever you listen to podcasts for part three and for part four make sure you
00:59:33
check out somewhere in the Pines wherever you listen to podcast and if that's too much to remember check out
00:59:41
truecrime garage.com and part three and part four will be on our website thank you so much
00:59:48
for the support thanks for telling people about the garage until next week be good be kind and don't litter
00:59:56
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