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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:43
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that often wonders why the word abbreviated is so
00:01:50
long he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seeing and it's good to see you thanks for
00:01:55
listening thanks for telling a friend today we are drinking good life by billsburg Brewery garage grade four out
00:02:08
of five bottle caps this is an IPA and it's got everything you would want and expect from a good IPA and for you
00:02:15
Travelers billsburg is in the heart of Williamsburg surrounded in history and all that Jamestown stuff located just
00:02:22
off of the Colonial Parkway and this week's beer was brought to us by first up a big thank you to seal from where
00:02:29
Parts Unknown seal recommended some beers Zombie Dust and 100 million Angel singing which I'm positive we have
00:02:35
featured that one before but thank you for the suggestions and a big shout out to Stephanie from shy town next to
00:02:42
cheers to Bridget and Autobon Pennsylvania a big shout out to Valerie and John in Minneapolis next up a big
00:02:48
cheers to Sophie and a tiny little cheers to Baby Daisy and a big shout out to baby Jesus and last but not least a
00:02:55
shout out to Martha and Parts Unknown crazy how these things come full circle and if you'd like to be in the Inner
00:03:02
Circle all it takes is a round or two of some good beers and you can do that you
00:03:06
can buy us around for next week's show by going to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and they're
00:03:11
finally here the be good be kind don't Litter t-shirts they're on pre-order now you can order them you have till Friday
00:03:19
to get one of those also if you'd like to be a part of the horse people gang then you can also order a horsee t-shirt
00:03:27
and that's at true Crim garage.com and click on the store Page all right horse people gather around grab a chair grab a
00:03:34
beer I think they're called Centaur let's talk some true [Music] [Music] crime 18-year-old Anna Marie Phelps had
00:03:55
recently moved in with her boyfriend Clint laow in Virginia Beach Anna Maria had Frosted blonde hair and a penchant
00:04:02
for blue eyeliner she loved the band Poison I don't get it twisted sister but that's not the only crime of this
00:04:11
episode well she had returned home to Emily this is located Southwest of Richmond to visit her family for the
00:04:18
Labor Day holiday weekend she was accompanied by Daniel low uh this is Clint's brother they were driving back
00:04:27
to Virginia Beach together Daniel was planning to move in with his brother and Anna Maria to help them with their rent
00:04:34
and to live near the beach apparently they both had jobs this couple but they I believe they made minimum wage at the
00:04:42
time so paying the rent was a struggle and the brother wanted to live near the beach it's kind of a win-win for all
00:04:49
involved So Daniel had packed up his car with all of his things they said goodbye
00:04:55
to Anna Maria's family who had warned them just before the two pulled off to lock their car doors and to drive
00:05:02
safely now they left about 11:15 p.m. on Labor Day Monday September 4th 1989 this
00:05:09
is a 2hour Drive East to Virginia Beach Anna Maria and Daniel never showed up at
00:05:16
their apartment in Virginia Beach Clint the brother called his mom to tell her that they hadn't showed up as expected
00:05:24
and she filed the missing persons report around 5:30 p.m. the next day a State Trooper spotted Daniel's gold 1972 Chevy
00:05:34
Nova in the westbound rest stop along I64 in New Kent which is odd because they're heading east yes I64 is a 1,000
00:05:44
mile major highway running between Missouri and Virginia this rest stop between Richmond and Williamsburg is in
00:05:51
the wrong direction the couple should have been driving east the rest stop is 30 Mi Northwest of the the Colonial
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Parkway this rest stop had a reputation at the time as a meeting spot for drug deals and hookups the abandoned car was
00:06:09
on the lane leading onto the highway from the rest stop so picture this the car is basically half on half off of the
00:06:18
road it's almost blocking traffic the trooper was about to have it towed from the rest stop when a radio check linked
00:06:27
the car to a couple that was reported missing earlier that day this being the two that we've already discussed now
00:06:34
Anam Maria's purse and clothing were found inside the vehicle as was all of Daniel's stuff but Anna Ana Maria's
00:06:42
wallet was missing as was a blanket of Daniels a feathered marijuana roach clip was hanging on the partially open driver
00:06:52
side window yeah it was like clipped onto the window yeah it was later identified as belonging to Anna Maria
00:07:00
the key was still in the ignition one door was locked the other wasn't the car had plenty of gas I believe it was
00:07:07
reported that it had 34 of a tank of gas full tank of gas and seemed to be working just fine so there was no reason
00:07:14
for them to abandon the vehicle some Reports say that the glove compartment was open there was no evidence of a
00:07:22
struggle the car just seemed to have been left there for whatever reason there were sightings of the pair
00:07:30
and this took place both East and Westbound of where the two where the vehicle was found MH but these sightings
00:07:40
LED nowhere now I heard an investigator interviewed and he stated look we we did
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have a lot of people say that they saw them after we found the vehicle the problem with this was he said look this
00:07:53
area at the time there was a lot of partying going on there would have been a lot of kids their age
00:08:00
in this area traveling to or from Virginia Beach right so these eyewitnesses could have saw a different
00:08:06
set of people and and according to this investigator he says look they to me they look like just any other he says
00:08:13
look a lot well he says look they look to me just like any other kids of that age at that
00:08:20
time he he goes I understand that they right you could easily mistake anybody for being these two now they set up uh a
00:08:30
search Okay police dogs were unable to pick up a scent of either of the missing individuals and they searched the
00:08:38
surrounding areas this turned up nothing almost immediately investigators began drawing comparisons to The Disappearance
00:08:46
of Keith and Sandy 18 months earlier and 35 miles to the South about a month after laow and Phelps went missing Larry
00:08:55
mccan a profiler and special agent with the state police police Bureau of Investigation told reporters there was
00:09:03
quote a very good chance that the recent cases were related a story in the Daily
00:09:08
Press in October of 1989 mentioned each of the four cases that are now known collectively as the Colonial Parkway
00:09:17
murders but now their their bodies are going to be found unlike the last couple well the issue here Captain is it's not
00:09:25
until October 19th this is when the bodies are found by hunters walking along an old secluded Logging Road found
00:09:33
the two sets of human skeletal remains in a wooded area this is about A4 mile off of Courthouse Road barely a mile
00:09:41
north of the exit off of I64 the bodies lay side by side and they were covered by a blanket later
00:09:49
identified as the one that was missing from the car Anam Maria's locket U necklace was lying on the trail whether
00:09:58
she had left it there as some kind of signal some kind of you know breadcrumb or the killer had dumped it there we
00:10:05
don't know the interesting thing here though is Captain while the locket was found on the
00:10:12
trail the necklace itself was was never found and because there was so much time that passed their
00:10:19
bodies are going to be pretty badly decomposed yeah we're looking at a period of what 45 days so these remains
00:10:28
were found about a mile from the rest area where the car was found State Police sent four crime scene texts and
00:10:34
two medical examiners to this scene it was pouring rain all day long so the the local fire department pitched in and
00:10:41
helped out they put up a canopy above the bones and they brought in a generator to Power electric lights used
00:10:49
in the search it was very muddy that day one Trooper slipped in a hole and and sank up to his knees and the crime scene
00:10:56
specialist painstakingly dug and sift through it until they found everything that they believe was left there
00:11:03
including the victim's fingernails they used several kinds of metal detectors that day and chemicals to detect blood
00:11:10
stains on the bushes signs were found to suggest that the murder site might have
00:11:16
been at the intersection of the Logging Road in the dirt Lane meaning that where
00:11:22
they found the car is not where they were killed more likely where the bodies were found is very close to where it's
00:11:28
believed they had been killed the victim's car had weeds up underneath of it that matched those at the believed
00:11:36
murder scene investigators concluded that the killer must have driven it to the dump I'm sorry driven it to dump the
00:11:43
bodies right and then had parked it in the rest area going the wrong direction from where the two victims were heading
00:11:51
strangely Anna Maria was found wearing Dennis Daniel's socks and shoes so this is very weird
00:12:01
right they're they're partially they're partially stripped but she's wearing his
00:12:07
socks and shoes somebody has one investigator had always wondered that several of the victims being found
00:12:13
without their shoes on if that was some kind of form of control you know that that one of the not only having them
00:12:21
partially undressed or all the way undressed but have them remove their shoes and maybe their shoes first that
00:12:27
way if they take off running it can be very uncomfortable to run out in these areas with no shoes on you might be you
00:12:34
might be slowed in your attempt to escape mhm the killer then used Daniel's blanket to cover the bodies from my
00:12:45
understanding the bodies were covered up to the neck area uh the bodies were left
00:12:51
outside for like 6 weeks badly decomposed as you had said they were identified through dental records it
00:12:58
took about two days for this process and in the course of those two days law enforcement they were kind enough to
00:13:07
reach out to both families and they said look we think that this is who we found
00:13:12
we've already found the vehicle and we think that we found your two loved ones we wanted you to hear it from us first
00:13:19
but we cannot confirm that until the dental records come back they didn't want the family to hear this on the news
00:13:26
and not from them yeah the bodies were sent to the Smithsonian institution national museum for natural history in
00:13:34
Washington DC so forensic anthropologists could look for hints at the cause of death the best they could do was to
00:13:43
identify a Nick in one of Anam Maria's finger bones potentially a defensive wound from from a knife attack once the
00:13:52
bodies were recovered it was undeniable in the minds of many people that Virginia had a serial killer on the
00:13:59
loose the FBI and the state police held a joint press conference in July of 1990
00:14:05
declaring that there was a possibility that the cases were all connected all related in asking the public for
00:14:13
help now the case is captain we're all different obviously but there are they are similar enough
00:14:21
that there are some patterns and connections between them so let's talk about the similarities and differences
00:14:28
in these murders so first we have all four were couples or at least appeared to be couples we
00:14:35
know that Becky and Kathy were dating we don't know whether they were targeted because they were a samex couple or not
00:14:42
but it is possible that the killer didn't realize that until he had already begun his attack it was very dark along
00:14:50
the parkway at night Kathy and Becky were inside a dark car presumably the killer looking to prey on couples may
00:14:57
have assumed that they were in fact man and woman Becky's hair at the time was on the shorter side so
00:15:05
perhaps the extreme viciousness of this attack was because the killer was angry that they were two women right when when
00:15:12
he had been looking for a guy and a girl several people close to the victims strongly suspect that David and Robin
00:15:21
were hooking up that night this is the second couple yeah and we know that according to some reports out there that
00:15:27
Robin had had sex recently before she was found and then we have Keith and Sandy who were on a first date if you
00:15:35
want to call it that and finally we have Daniel and Anna Maria who were driving together to Virginia Beach they weren't
00:15:43
a couple but you know there's much speculation that perhaps they had stopped along the parkway or stopped at
00:15:50
some point maybe having something to do with the roach clip that was later found
00:15:55
and so we have a situation here where all four situations would appear to be couples
00:16:02
yes now the first couple we're going to find them inside the car second couple we find outside the car third couple we
00:16:09
do not find at all fourth couple we find roughly about 6 weeks later and a distance away from uh the car that we
00:16:19
find another similarity all of these cases involved cars um many of the cars were left with open doors and or open
00:16:28
windows and some reported to have had the glove boxes open right which again I I I think this is
00:16:40
a I'm going to play both sides of the fence here possibly because the first murder being so
00:16:46
sloppy and that that they probably had reports saying that this possibly could be law enforcement possibly could be a
00:16:55
park ranger this possibly could be somebody pretending to be mhm that could be something that the killer uses to set
00:17:02
them up the second couple the third couple and the fourth couple because that individual is moving the car and so
00:17:10
if that individual is moving the car he's the one that's leaving the door open he's possibly the one that is
00:17:16
rolling down the window he's the one that's possibly uh opening up the glove box he's the one that's possibly taking
00:17:24
uh a wallet or something and put it on the dash to make it look like this this person that's stalking these
00:17:30
individuals is law enforcement right if we want to go as so far to believe that he's sophisticated enough to move the
00:17:39
vehicle and Stage the vehicle then we should think that he's sophisticated enough to Stage these other things at
00:17:47
the crime scene at the vehicle well and the reason why I have a gut feeling that
00:17:51
those are staged because if you are posing as a law enforcement if you are posing as a park ranger or something
00:17:58
that is your way to get these people to uh your victims to drop their guard right so if you're set you know what I
00:18:07
mean like so if you're using that to get people to drop their guard then don't you think when you move
00:18:13
the car you'd roll up the window shut the glove box put their wallet somewhere else well yeah because you don't want
00:18:21
law enforcement warning future potential victims mhm of this approach that hey look out for somebody pretending to be
00:18:30
law enforcement pulling people over or approaching Vehicles the third similarity that we should note here is
00:18:37
none of the cases involved any signs of a struggle and the cars were largely undisturbed with the exception of the
00:18:44
first attack the exception to this is the other situation in the first attack of Kathy having hair in her hand which M
00:18:55
I think we should assume to be the perpetrators as the FBI has not said that it was Becky's or her own hair so
00:19:03
this means that the killer somehow controlled the victims enough to get them out of their cars without actually
00:19:08
attacking them inside of the vehicles mhm in three of the crimes the victim's clothing items were found inside the
00:19:17
cars Kathy and Becky were found to be fully clothed first couple but the rest were either only partially clothed or in
00:19:25
the case of Keith and Sandy we don't we don't know we don't right but but we do have pieces of their clothing found in
00:19:34
the car quite a bit of pieces of clothing so we could assume that they're only partially clothed wherever they
00:19:40
went and I wonder because with the fourth couple and not being able to find them
00:19:46
for 6 weeks I wonder if I wonder if the third couple the killer buried maybe in a shallow grave
00:19:58
and with the search we've never found them and so therefore that's why he didn't possibly bury the fourth couple
00:20:07
and just left them out covered in with a blanket my other question would be how far from the water are they because we
00:20:16
saw with the second attack it it looks to me my speculation is with the second attack that the attempt was to throw the
00:20:24
bodies in the water and for whatever reason they washed ashore and in the third attack we have no bodies I wonder
00:20:31
if the killer was successful in placing them in the water and the tides took them away mhm so another similarity all
00:20:40
the crimes happen within 60 miles of one another ragged island in the I64 rest stop are each about 30 Mi away in
00:20:49
different directions from the central murders on the Colonial Parkway mhm the crimes all took place on a weekend and
00:20:56
two of them took place on a holiday weekend three of the crimes were in September or October and one of them was
00:21:04
in April so all of them took place in either fall or spring none at winter or summer and all took place at nighttime
00:21:12
yeah and you then it makes you wonder is this um killer does he have some kind of
00:21:17
job that they get holiday time well and all of the victims were young we should consider that as well Kathy being the
00:21:25
oldest at 27 years of age M now when I was listing out the similarities and the differences between the crimes okay so
00:21:36
that has us listed at seven obvious similarities in these crimes in my opinion there was one that that is
00:21:44
tricky there is one that doesn't really end up on either list as being a similarity or a difference and that is
00:21:52
the one that is reported so often in this crime that I think we should take a look at at take a new look at it for a
00:21:59
second because one that most people would consider to be a similarity amongst all
00:22:06
four of these crimes is that the general conception is that there's no mo there's
00:22:13
no uh motive I'm sorry not emo there's no motive in these crimes being that there's no signs of sexual assault and
00:22:22
there's no signs of robbery well let's go back on that real quick because the first couple we know were lesbians but
00:22:29
there was no sexual assault there the second couple we do know that Robin Edwards had sex with
00:22:38
somebody before her murder mhm the third couple Cassandra is never found so we don't know if there was
00:22:48
sexual assault attempted or not and then the fourth couple we got such bad decomposition that we can't even tell if
00:22:57
if there was a sexual assault or not so we can't rule that out as a possible motive no we absolutely can't and that's
00:23:05
why I don't think you can put that as a similarity saying that there's no obvious motive in either one of these
00:23:11
situations when you do a little further digging here let's talk about the um the
00:23:16
case of Robin and David okay the reports are that we know what the reports usually says we know that Robin had sex
00:23:26
shortly before she was killed and when they say shortly who knows exactly what that means okay as far as timeline goes
00:23:34
let's just say that's means within a few hours well I'm I don't even need to speculate because one thing that I found
00:23:41
was we have an investigator now he's going off of memory but he worked that case and going off of memory when asked
00:23:49
about the situation of Robin having had sex beforehand and wondering if that was
00:23:54
with David or could it be possibly that she was raped he said in this interview you know and and take him keep this in
00:24:03
mind this is heay this is him recalling this maybe 25 years after the case after
00:24:10
he investigated but he says due to his recul recollection they were working under the
00:24:17
assumption that Robin was raped and potentially sodomized as well mm so that makes that creates one big giant motive
00:24:26
in that particular case then we have another situation with Anna Maria and Daniel this is the fourth couple correct
00:24:36
and one thing that is often not reported in this situation is Daniel had gotten paid about $800 over the course of that
00:24:45
weekend it's believed that when they took off for that trip back to that apartment that he
00:24:52
had the $800 cash on him this was never recovered from the vehicle or or from his belongings M so we have a potential
00:25:01
that there might have been motive for robbery in this particular case yeah or it's just such an amount that the killer
00:25:08
just I'm here might as well take it now for the differences the most obvious is Theo being different in each case we
00:25:16
have a strangulation a throat cutting this is the Becky and Kathy case first couple a shooting with David and Robin
00:25:24
second couple a suspected stabbing in Anamaria Daniel that's the fourth couple and an unknown disappearance of Keith
00:25:32
and Sandy mhm another go ahead well and I I kind of wondered this because in the second couple Robin she's
00:25:42
only 14 so I wonder if the motive if it was sexual Bas sexually based that the first
00:25:48
couple he he goes okay here's this lesbian couple maybe there was now this possibly could be the first attack so we
00:26:00
have a situation where somebody gets a handful of hair and was that enough you know of a a deterrent to stop the sexual
00:26:12
assault therefore then we're saying that that's not the motive well because they
00:26:16
weren't sexually assaulted but then we have the situation with the second couple with Robin and her being 14 and
00:26:25
being young and you know I'm just going to put that put it out there I know it sounds a little sick but maybe that's
00:26:32
not what maybe this killer sees David and goes 20-year-old ban and then when he gets to the car sees Robin and she's
00:26:42
young and that's not the type of individual not the type of sexual assault that he want he doesn't
00:26:52
want to sexually assault a 14-year-old he does but that's not his type right mhm and then you have the situation with
00:27:00
the third couple you keep on calling her Sandy right right her full name is Cassandra
00:27:08
and her name was Cassandra um with Sandy you have she was a model and she was a gymnast I believe uh she taught
00:27:18
gymnastics yes is it possible that after the second couple he finds this very attractive woman and he
00:27:28
wants to spend more time with her and he brins her somewhere else and that's why
00:27:33
we never found um her or Richard another difference another possible difference is the actual locations and now Captain
00:27:42
you might say this is weird you kind of included a similar thing on both of your
00:27:47
list both sides of your list but I think one could argue it either way while all
00:27:52
the crimes happen within a 60 miles within 60 miles of one another you could argue that it's similar location however
00:28:00
you could make the argument that look two of them two of the cars were found on the parkway one is found on I64 and
00:28:08
the other on ragged Island where they're all within 60 Mi of one another but could be considered much different
00:28:15
locations but 60 Mi is not a huge radius for a killer to stock the [Music] prey this show is spons spored by better
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Garay to get 10% off your first month that's better help hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language
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learning program with a lasting impact a been using their rap to learn French and
00:29:29
it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25
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languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language
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projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie [Music] that all right we're back cheers
00:30:19
everybody I'm just excited that I'm not a captain soup NOS well the Colonial Parkway murders fell under different law
00:30:28
enforcement jurisdictions to this day the families of these victims cite the lack of communication and cooperation
00:30:35
among the various departments investigating so this has been seen as a major stumbling block it's it's tough
00:30:42
when it's separate entities investigating this being federal state and local MH the families were so
00:30:50
dissatisfied with the handling of the cases that in in 1989 a few of them banded together along
00:30:57
with families of victims and other unsolved murders in the area to obtain 12,000 signatures to require law
00:31:05
enforcement to re to renew the investigations into the murders on the Parkway and in the Tidewater Virginia
00:31:14
region they formed a group called fact uh family and friends against Crime today this was to push law enforcement
00:31:23
to work together to find out what had happened to their loved ones the members went to the media and wrote
00:31:30
to congressmen and Senators complaining that the police weren't taking seriously
00:31:35
the possibility that all of the crimes were linked the FBI said in 1990 that its agents had spent thousands of hours
00:31:43
trying to solve the two Federal cases that they were working and had met frequently with local law enforcement
00:31:50
agencies to discuss the cases yeah these cases are difficult though too because the these seem like
00:31:58
very random acts four random acts of murder that's why I wanted to take the time and go through the similarities and
00:32:06
the differences between the cases because I think it's it's a weird set of circumstances that in my opinion you
00:32:14
have enough things pointing that they are connected that there are enough similarities that there is a pattern
00:32:20
that they are connected but equally you have enough things pointing out that they could be completely unrelated to
00:32:27
one another yeah and you kind of see this with um Long Island SE killer a lot of people think that some are connected
00:32:34
and some or not and that possibly there's two killers so is that is that a situation that we might have here well
00:32:41
and I don't think we should come down too hard on law enforcement regarding these cases that we've discussed because
00:32:47
one thing that I found throughout this was the the lack of consensus about whether the four crimes were related at
00:32:54
all and this coming from both investigators and the families of these victims as well where do you stand on
00:33:03
the possibility of these being connected oo that that's a complicated answer my friend I I think I I'd like to this is
00:33:12
what I found and usually when I have a hard time coming up with answers on my own I like to just defer to people
00:33:19
closer to the case and what I found in this situation is that you have depending on who you talk to whether it
00:33:26
be law en forcement or family members of the victims you have some people that think that just one case is different
00:33:33
than the other or that you know some of the cases are connected and others are not like for example the David and Robin
00:33:42
case local authorities are what couple two yes okay local authorities are convinced that theair was executed by
00:33:51
someone they know mhm so and then other people think that the three cases in which which involved the heterosexual
00:34:00
couples that they are all linked but Kathy and Becky's the first couple the lesbian couple that their violent
00:34:06
killing seemed more personable so it's not you know that they possibly were targeted and are not linked to the other
00:34:13
cases right because they their claim is that normally when somebody tries to burn the body that's normally a sign
00:34:20
that they knew the individual here's the other thing and this is really interesting and this thought seems to be
00:34:27
shared by families and law enforcement they note that several of the victims should have been nowhere near the place
00:34:35
where they were found okay I think that's important with the exception of the first couple it's believed that the
00:34:43
other three cases that those people would have been nowhere near where they were eventually found so some law
00:34:49
enforcement officials believe that maybe the Parkway and rest stops are just dumping grounds for different killers M
00:34:57
and that there's actually no connection at all the FBI in charge uh an FBI agent
00:35:03
in charge of the case in the late 80s and early 90s his name is Robert Meadows said the problem was that none of them
00:35:10
knew what to look for he stated quote if you think about it which is worse a serial killer or four separate
00:35:19
Killers sorry I said serial she thought I said my whole story went away damn I love that quote too Robert
00:35:29
Meadows said the problem was that none of them was sure what to look for stating quote if you think about it
00:35:36
which is worse a serial killer or four separate Killers running around out there and we don't know who any of them
00:35:42
are right and so this is very similar to um the Texas Killing Fields possibly where it's just a Dumping Ground exactly
00:35:51
the tough thing here though is that you're now dumping not only couples but you're
00:35:57
dumping their vehicle as well and that becomes a a different problem and so in three of the cases you're dumping a
00:36:07
possibly dumping a vehicle which makes it very similar again look if you're just if there's
00:36:14
three random sets of bodies dumped somewhere along this area that makes a little more sense once you throw in the
00:36:22
car scenario that's a lot more time and effort somebody's going to have to get some to pick them up or we would at
00:36:28
least seen some eyewitnesses that said hey the night that these people went missing we saw this guy walking on the
00:36:34
side of the road or whatever it was here's the thought though too is it such a big deal that they're not working
00:36:41
together that the law enforcement agencies aren't working together Here's my thought meaning whether they're
00:36:47
related or not as long as they're being worked if in fact it turns out that it is the work of one serial killer then if
00:36:56
you solve one likely you should solve some of the others or all of them right as long as they're being worked and
00:37:03
worked good yeah and well if we have this hair from the first couple and we think that these cases are connected
00:37:11
this is something that's going to have to be answered pretty quickly because if we do have this DNA as we know with all
00:37:18
these other cases a lot of people are taking these Cold Case Files taking DNA and they're having them tested with
00:37:25
ancestry so we're going to get within a spectrum you know within cousins within aunts and uncles of possibly the murder
00:37:33
of this first couple because we have that DNA evidence now you're going to have to figure out does this individual
00:37:39
have Alibis for those other couples or you going to be able to get him to confess to those if they are connected
00:37:47
well and here's the thing I think the biggest factor that has contributed to the failure to solve any or all of these
00:37:55
crimes is that the crime scenes were compromised evidence has been lost damaged or destroyed you know and we
00:38:05
know in the first case that the park rangers smashed out the back window of Cathy's car we have some other examples
00:38:12
too there are stories coming from family members that say and and and keep in mind we'll keep we'll take this with a
00:38:19
grain of salt because these are hurt loved ones of victims but there are stories that have come from family
00:38:25
members that say that at least one of the vehicles was towed back to the family and given back to the family and it was
00:38:36
never processed and in fact that later when they came to take fingerprints from inside of the truck inside of David's
00:38:43
truck this is days and days later that they took the fingerprints and then later the father finds the fingerprint
00:38:52
cards out in the front lawn right that they didn't they didn't for whatever reason bring them back to the lab or
00:38:58
wherever they were intended to take these things right and these cases have been cold for a while and I don't think
00:39:04
their frustration was from the beginning but I think because the FBI was doing a
00:39:10
lecture and somebody made these these crime scene photos public during this lecture I believe it was 2008 so
00:39:21
everything's kind of resurfaced since then well that was because the FBI had egg on its face and it needed to
00:39:30
to reassure the families that they were going to make good on this and that they
00:39:35
are going to work these their two Federal cases until they're solved yeah and I think they like announced to the
00:39:42
public we reopening them and assigning new people to them but they also throw they threw a
00:39:49
local um park ranger kind of under the bus he's the one that I think exposed them
00:39:57
cuz he was at the lecture I think he okay so the way this goes down is in October of 2008 this is at a law
00:40:04
enforcement training school in Hampton uh the school had an old FBI slideshow of crime scenes from the Colonial
00:40:13
Parkway murders so the school's owner the school's not run by the FBI the school's owner asked this guy named Fred
00:40:20
Atwell who was a former deputy sheriff to speak at a few classes regarding the murders Atwell was very familiar with
00:40:29
the cases so while he's there to speak to the classes Atwell saw that crime scene photos were being used in this
00:40:37
training program so right for how long we don't know but there were 78 images that featured detailed color shots of
00:40:46
the cars glove box open wallets out clothes in the back seats there were also pictures of the victims shot
00:40:55
strangled slashed so Atwell called the FBI to report that the active case photos were being used in a public form
00:41:04
mhm the FBI didn't really respond in the manner that Atwell wanted him to so he contacted a local TV station which then
00:41:13
later publicized the leak okay so an investigation revealed that the FBI um this was an FBI photographer had taken a
00:41:24
duplicate set of slides before retiring in 2001 and he became an instructor at this
00:41:31
Hampton law enforcement school and he was using them for training purposes which yeah you have to use stuff like
00:41:39
this but you would assume that they'd be using cases that are one not of the area
00:41:43
but two cases that are solved well and before we even get to that we have the situation of the Rangers finding the
00:41:51
vehicle and then then the father finding the vehicle later we already discussed that one little egg on the ranger face
00:41:58
but we also we have compromised crime scenes to the point of remember they find the lost vehicle and a jogger later
00:42:06
later finds the bodies or finds the body so what does that mean they didn't rope off the crime
00:42:13
scene enough they allowed a jogger to go jogging through the crime scene MH to find the body and then we have a
00:42:21
situation that took place in 1994 now I do know that we have said said that there were no signs of sexual
00:42:28
assault regarding Kathy and Becky's case the first set of murders but there were
00:42:33
rape kits that were conducted in that investigation for whatever reason instead of them ending up back at the
00:42:39
FBI's office they ended up at the York County Sheriff's Department to which once they it's made known to them hey
00:42:46
your rape kits ended up here the FBI sent a fax to York County ordering them to destroy the rape kits so even if
00:42:54
they're you know even though there's no signs of sexual assault let's say that there was we don't know for certain that
00:42:59
there was or was not M all these years later maybe that could have led to something maybe we could have gained
00:43:05
some evidence from those old rape kits so the first couple is murdered in ' 86 second couple in 87 Third couple 88 then
00:43:16
the last couple or the fourth couple in 89 so everybody thought that's when it stopped but there's another case that
00:43:24
happened in 1996 six that is very similar to the first murders in in ' 86 well and this connection is made from a
00:43:33
man by the name of Steve spingola okay so Steve spingola is a retired detective and he is an
00:43:39
investigative journalist at some point some of the victim's families got together and started asking him for help
00:43:47
and he came to some interesting conclusions he wrote a magazine article titled Predators on the parkway
00:43:52
summarizing his findings in his investigation among these things he revealed that cigarette butts were found
00:43:59
at the first murder scene and that the Rope used in the first murders uh the rope that was found on the victim's neck
00:44:05
tested positive for brine or for seawater he also revealed that they had found a note in Anamaria Phelps
00:44:13
handwriting indicating that she had planned to meet someone in a blue van at the rest stop and this is the fourth
00:44:20
fourth couple correct now probably the most surprising of spinola's conclusions was that he believed that the cases were
00:44:27
likely not all related he did however link Kathy and Becky's the first murder case to a 1996 murder of a lesbian
00:44:37
couple elsewhere in Virginia so as if things weren't complicated enough this was the double murder of Julian Williams
00:44:44
and Laura winens which took place in Virginia's shann andoa National Park in June of 96 do we know how far away this
00:44:53
was it's a 3 to 4H hour drive from the colonial Parkway area Laura was a college student and Julianne had just
00:45:01
graduated with a degree in uh geology they were in a same-sex relationship they were on a camping trip both were
00:45:10
considered to be experienced hikers they were found at their campsite just off of
00:45:15
a Scenic Trail on Skyline Drive bound and gagged with their own clothing naked and their throats were cut the killer
00:45:24
had used duct tape and it is believed that he brought the duct tape with them with him lore's golden retriever Taj was
00:45:33
found unharmed and nearby this case remains unsolved and the the FBI has said publicly that they believe there
00:45:41
are substantial similarities between this case and that of the first murders back in 1986 and you wonder if it's some
00:45:50
kind of anniversary killing so you asked earlier if I thought that they are related if they were connected I think
00:45:57
we approach it in this manner here captain that we do have a lot of investigators that buy into the serial
00:46:04
killer Theory and the ones that have they haven't established a profile of their likely killer and they state that
00:46:12
he would be a Caucasian male he was likely in his 20s or early 30s in the mid to late 80s he is of average or
00:46:22
above average intelligence he has good social skills lived with a partner owned a vehicle and
00:46:30
possibly had begun undergoing some kind of stress that inspired the crimes he probably committed the crimes in his uh
00:46:38
probably committed other crimes in his youth such as setting fires killing animals and so on and the pattern
00:46:46
escalated as he got old he be he's becoming more violent as he gets older they also state that he is very
00:46:53
organized that he brought his weapon along with him he controlled his victims before killing them never mutilated or
00:47:00
molested the bodies concealed the corpses or at least attempted to and waited for long periods of time before
00:47:08
striking again finally this killer exhibited great self-control refraining from taunting law enforcement with
00:47:15
letters or Clues like the Son of Sam or the Zodiac Killer he his killings showed that he
00:47:22
has or was refining his craft and and evolving he got more efficient and less messy with each of these murders it was
00:47:31
even possible that he was deliberately changing up hiso to keep investigators guessing several of the investigators
00:47:39
believe that there is a strong possibility that the killer was actually two people operating as a team now for
00:47:45
the fun part Captain we get to throw some individuals under the bus people that have been considered suspects
00:47:51
throughout the course of these investigations now I do want to keep in mind everybody keep in mind there's been
00:47:56
like 130 to 150 suspects depending on which report you read obviously we're not going to go through all of them but
00:48:04
we will go through some of the more noteworthy ones right so first we have and this is in no particular order all
00:48:11
right just kind of random order first we have Fred Atwell okay as you might recall Fred Atwell was the deputy who
00:48:18
discovered that the FBI's crime scene photos had been released he has a checkered history he had two burglary
00:48:26
convictions and had bounced around from one local law enforcement role to another apparently background checks
00:48:34
weren't a thing when they were hiring these officers in any event Atwell was a deputy at the uh Gloucester County
00:48:41
Sheriff's Department which was apparently known to have employed some questionable characters at the time of
00:48:47
the murders after the crime scene photo photo debacle Atwell inserted himself into the
00:48:55
parkway way cases befriending the families and trying to act as a goete with his supposed law enforcement
00:49:03
connections eventually atwell's true character emerged and he was arrested in 2011 for fraud for stealing money that
00:49:12
he had raised in a phony car raffle on the pretense of contributing the money to the Colonial Parkway victims fund
00:49:21
later that year he was arrested again for robbing a woman at gunpoint Atwell admitted that he had been looked at as a
00:49:29
suspect possible suspect in the crimes but he is vehemently denied any involvement he claims that the FBI
00:49:35
labeled him a suspect as retaliation for his public disclosure of the leaked crime scene photos yeah or the fact that
00:49:44
you're a piece of [ __ ] for trying to raise money for dead people and then you steal the money that's pretty shady I'm
00:49:51
going to kind of look into you after that Fred Atwell well you can feel safe and feel good somewhat to know that Fred
00:49:59
Atwell remains he remains in prison for the fraud charges and the robbery convictions he is scheduled to be
00:50:05
released in 2020 then we have Ronald little but hold on the problem with Fred is the fact
00:50:13
that he would have they would had they would have collected his DNA and I think if the FBI really thought Fred wasn't a
00:50:20
suspect they would be testing the DNA they found on the hair in the first murders
00:50:26
Ronald little was a 32-year-old convicted felon from New Zealand who somehow managed to hide his criminal
00:50:33
record and gain entry into the United States he ended up in the Newport News area and worked as a private
00:50:41
investigator he had owned and operated a security company that provided security
00:50:46
for local businesses he had permits to carry guns Liberty security employed law enforcement officers and as security
00:50:56
guards so Liberty security is his company all right and they're employing Law Enforcement Officers as some of
00:51:02
their security guards this is not an uncommon practice this included a Fred Atwell for one furthermore Liberty has
00:51:11
some strange connections to the parkway cases and that being Rob Robin edwards's
00:51:17
mother Bonnie she was part of the second murder case right she worked at Liberty
00:51:24
security one point and I believe she worked there at the time of the murders Terry Haley this is Sand's sister dated
00:51:33
a man named Steve Blackman who worked at Liberty security we will talk more about
00:51:39
Steve in a little bit but in 1988 Ron little sent out letters to congressmen and local politicians and the media
00:51:47
saying that he had been he was being railroaded by the FBI for the parkway cases specifically he stated that he was
00:51:54
being targeted as a suspect in the killings of Robin Edwards and David nobling he also said that the FBI had
00:52:01
looked at him for the Keith and Sandy disappearance now the weird thing about this is he's sending out all these
00:52:08
letters according to law enforcement and according to the FBI they never had looked at this guy H they didn't know
00:52:16
what he was talking about maybe he wanted to be looked at take a peek well take a peek behind the curtain he the
00:52:24
officials did that he was a suspect in any of the crimes but little was taken into custody in May of
00:52:30
1989 um so he or you also wonder wait okay hold on before you get to the next one you also wonder was somebody just
00:52:38
messing with him like calling him oh yeah like this is FBI where were you you son of a [ __ ] well that's interesting
00:52:46
that you bring that up I never thought about that but knowing what I know about this individual it's likely that he had
00:52:54
enemies mhm you know somebody might want have wanted to have messed with him we do
00:52:59
have to keep in mind though he was eventually arrested and this was in May of 1989 so he could not be responsible
00:53:07
for uh Anna Maria and and Daniel's killing okay he he was not out walking around by the time the fourth case went
00:53:14
down again I assume that if the FBI thinks that you're a suspect in this case they're testing your
00:53:21
DNA yeah it well this thing came about I don't know if his DNA ever would have been tested MH because he wasn't
00:53:29
arrested in the traditional sense remember he was from New Zealand and he checked in and got into the United
00:53:35
States by lying that he did not have a criminal background Che mates right so they figure out that he's actually a
00:53:42
criminal who got into our country so they deported him so they shipped him back so to speak and then the killing
00:53:50
stopped okay I said that we would talk about Steve Blackman Steve Blackman is a disgraced ex police officer okay who
00:53:58
kept getting into trouble and moved around from Branch to branch of various local law enforcement entities in this
00:54:04
area of Virginia including the Newport News PD where he was uh held a position for nine years I know so many dis
00:54:13
disgraced Bankers that have been transferred from one branch to another Branch well he was also later employed
00:54:21
by the Gloucester County Sheriff's Department mhm and according to sources who have knowledge of the situation u i
00:54:29
i I found this quote very interesting okay M they say Blackman was a bad guy involved in drugs underage girls and
00:54:37
general thuggery thuggery yeah Blackman moonlighted as a security guard for Liberty security remember they have some
00:54:46
ties to a couple of these murders right right and his buddy was Ron little he also dated Terry Haley this was one of
00:54:53
the victim's sisters mhm okay reports are also out there that his his family owned property along the James River
00:55:02
near the parkway meaning he was familiar with the area and had access to a home base near two of the killings yeah maybe
00:55:10
we should search his property Blackman moved away from the area in 1989 and the parkway killings had stopped mhm he
00:55:19
ended up getting hired as a sheriff's deputy in Florence County South Carolina in 1990 this is where he he shot two men
00:55:27
and killed them who broke into uh some Reports say his home some Reports say his father's home what year was that
00:55:36
1990 um he shot them 11 times now he was fired after the incident because they figured out that cocaine was found in
00:55:46
his system during the course of these shootings hell of a drug he was indicted for double murder and underwent a psych
00:55:55
atric uh evaluation he did serve some time I don't have that right in front of me I believe that he only served a few
00:56:02
years because it's possible they were able to prove that these individuals actually broke into the home um from
00:56:10
what I could find I was think about this so you're you're at home right mhm you're high as a kite right minding your
00:56:18
own damn business mhm two son sons of [ __ ] break into your house you shoot them they test you for drugs then they
00:56:28
send you to jail like hey I'm protecting myself and I'm protected my home it doesn't matter
00:56:33
if I'm drunk or not officer I think this is one of those guys that had a always had a suspicion of him that he was using
00:56:43
his badge and using his power to help get him drugs and girls and some of them might have been underage and he was
00:56:50
involved in trading guns stealing guns dealing with bribery all kinds of stuff MH and I think when this goes down this
00:56:59
is something legit that they could probably nail him on and let's okay let's get him let's fire him and let's
00:57:06
get him behind bars even if it is for a short period of time I tried to locate where this guy was now I'm sure somebody
00:57:13
better than me could do it like I said I think he only served a few years and I believe that he would be out of prison
00:57:20
now well and he would have been out of prison in time to if 1996 murder is connected to these he would have been
00:57:28
out in time to commit those as well well here's yes and here's the thought too I
00:57:34
think surrounding Steve Blackman and also possibly Ronald little they were very close and I think the thought is
00:57:43
that there is suspicion surrounding both of them I think the thought here is that
00:57:48
these two may have committed these crimes together and that even though Ronald little was locked up was deported
00:57:56
in 1989 before the 89 uh killings that potentially the two of them could could have committed the earlier ones together
00:58:05
and then maybe Steve Blackman committed the last one without the help of Ronald little Clyde Y is an interesting
00:58:15
character he was a ranger patrolling the Colonial Parkway during the time of the
00:58:21
murders Parkway victims family sources have learned that ye had violent tendencies and had sexually harassed
00:58:30
women by pulling them over on the parkway a number of women had filed complaints against him for harassment
00:58:37
involving inappropriate comments what makes ye interesting is that he was transferred out of the parkway area to
00:58:46
the shann andoa National Park where he was stationed in 1996 this is for the 96 killings so after that he was
00:58:54
transferred out again uh and he was involved in a very controversial case where he manufactured evidence and acted
00:59:02
an appropriately in an investigation of Indian trade trading post maintained by the National Park Service Ye Ye
00:59:11
reportedly passed a polygraph about whether he had any involvement in the parkway murders but he has never been
00:59:18
ruled out as a possible suspect he's weird because I've seen reports that say he's been ruled out because of this
00:59:25
polygraph mhm the thing I want to point out here is there are a lot of stories that include Clyde ye as being one of
00:59:33
the First Responders to the first murder scene and remember where we said it it's
00:59:38
unclear which Ranger broke the window on the hatchback to gain access to the vehicle there are some people that think
00:59:45
that Clyde ye was that individual right and that maybe it is on the surface it looks like hey I'm trying to help the
00:59:53
situation but boom I'm also contaminating the crime scene at the same time for something that I may have
01:00:00
been involved in right so he's weird because you can place him in the area of the
01:00:07
parkway at the time of the two Parkway murders and then you could place him as working in the area of the shannona
01:00:14
murders that took place in 96 so and he's a Caucasian he yes and he is um furthermore a ranger you know he would
01:00:22
have that ability ability to pull people over to approach cars he would have a he
01:00:27
would have a gun on him so right but again if you're moving these vehicles why not just take the time to shut the
01:00:34
glove box uhuh why not roll up the window why not take the time to do that right right I see what you're saying he
01:00:43
would only technically be connected to three of these potentially five double homicides in my opinion then we have
01:00:51
another interesting Guy this is Daryl David rice Daryl strawberry he's a former computer programmer who pled
01:00:59
guilty in 1998 to an abduction charge in which he was accused of verbally and physically assaulting a female bicyclist
01:01:07
in the shann andoa National Park M she avoided being forced into his truck she states he was going to try to kill me uh
01:01:16
when she fle him he tries to run her over with his truck investigators later discovered hand and leg rints inside
01:01:25
Rice's vehicle he was sentenced to 136 months in prison on that conviction while in prison he made comments that
01:01:33
could be seen as implicating himself in the 1996 double murder of Julianne and Laura in the National Park he was known
01:01:42
to frequent the park as a biker and hiker and in fact this is interesting about David darl David Rice okay he may
01:01:53
be guilty of one of these crimes and here's why because there was videotape there was videotape evidence of him
01:02:02
having entered the park on the days that the murders were committed in 1996 MH a
01:02:09
grand jury indicted him for those murders but he was eventually freed because unknown male DNA on hairs found
01:02:17
on the duct tape binding the victims did not match Rice's DNA oh so now if we have this hair can we
01:02:25
please test it against the the first crime scene from 10 years prior well and here's the thing that I want to be clear
01:02:33
on on this 1996 double homicide in my opinion this this evidence this hair found on the duct tape does not exclude
01:02:42
him it just it just causes it causes problems with getting him convicted so he does remain remain a strong suspect
01:02:51
in that case rice was cleared for the Colonial Parkway murders although investigators would not disclose why or
01:02:59
how he was ruled out but they may have his DNA like you said and if they have DNA from one or more of the crime scenes
01:03:07
maybe this is how they were able to rule him out all right one more suspect Michael Nicola so he's a strong suspect
01:03:16
he lived in Charlottesville Virginia around the time of the crimes where he was an
01:03:22
undercover officer mhm this is for the Charlottesville PD for for a period of time Nicola is the main suspect in the
01:03:31
Connecticut River Valley killings as well and suspected in The Disappearance of his first wife he killed himself in
01:03:38
Florida after having murdered his second wife and his stepdaughter there's not a lot of
01:03:45
information tying this guy to these actual cases other than the fact that he's a known murderer that lived in the
01:03:51
area at the time and he's also suspected in another string of murders that took place not too far away so how many
01:03:59
suspects do we have in this thing different reports the the reports vary but I've seen as little as 130 to as
01:04:05
many as 150 so just meaning that there's freaks everywhere so lock your doors be
01:04:11
safe don't get murdered couple of theories though here Captain we've talked about you know kind of been all
01:04:18
over the shop with the theories throughout the coverage of these cases but one that I want to mention is is
01:04:25
there is one so-called theory that I find extremely interesting and this is the watermen theory this theory
01:04:32
developed largely because of one the locations of the murders were all near waterways and two the diesel fuel that
01:04:40
was found at the first murder scene diesel fuel not being super common so some experts have been led to believe
01:04:47
that the diesel fuel which is used primarily to used in a lot of cases to power boats was something that the
01:04:55
killer had happened to have with him when he committed that first set of murders and traveling by boat would also
01:05:02
explain how the killer would manage to escape without being seen on walking on the on the parkway or risk leaving his
01:05:12
car somewhere else while he killed his victims and then returned to it this too could mean that it were it was two men
01:05:19
working together traveling by boat to and from these different crime scenes and one thing to back that up is in the
01:05:28
first set of murders they were strongly looking at this Waterman Theory and we know that law enforcement and FBI they
01:05:36
surveyed Waterman in the area they were looking for what they said were two men fitting what they thought they were
01:05:43
looking for okay one thing that they found at the first crime scene was they state that nautical line was found in
01:05:52
the hair of one of the victims right one of the victims was in the Navy right well she didn't she had been discharged
01:06:01
from the Navy at that point she was a stock broker so there's a couple of other theories and this kind of revolves
01:06:08
around the the time frame of these murders okay and when these the times of when these crimes took place and the
01:06:17
thought being that it could be a federal employee because we have murders that took place two on the weekend and two
01:06:25
right before or just after a long holiday weekend somebody that would have been working in the area and would not
01:06:32
have had to had their time accounted for during the course of those four murders
01:06:37
for you to believe this Theory then you have to believe that the 96 double homicide in the park was not related or
01:06:44
linked to the first four double homicide cases and why do you have to believe that well I guess that you don't have to
01:06:52
believe it um I'm just going going off of the theory here is that it was a federal employee based off of the the
01:06:59
dates the likely dates of when these first four homicides double homicides were committed right and that the one
01:07:07
the one in '96 mhm we don't know exactly what day they were killed on th this camping trip was quite extensive one uh
01:07:16
and and two like I said I guess you don't have to say that they weren't involved in the
01:07:22
96 where this Theory originates based off of the first four double homicides still basing the idea of this theory
01:07:31
around the murders having taken place on a weekend or just before or just after a
01:07:37
weekend there's some thought in a theory out there that this the perpetrator may
01:07:42
have been a William and Mary College student because all of these dates line up with the College calendar the William
01:07:51
and Mary College calendar meaning the person wouldn't have been in class or wouldn't have had class uh the following
01:07:57
day the other thing too that's interesting about that is the first four murders take place within a 4-year time
01:08:04
span which would be you know considered by many to be the average the average stay of an out of
01:08:11
town college student so the thought here being that a college student moves into
01:08:16
the area for whatever reason kills during the course of their time at William and Mary and then after the
01:08:24
final killing graduates and moves away and either starts killing in another city at some point or it was a pair of
01:08:33
college students that once their time away you know was done with one another that they stopped killing all together
01:08:40
so what's your final thoughts on the Colonial Parkway murders super fascinating case this is one that has
01:08:46
always intrigued me and I I've I look at it a little different each time uh as to
01:08:53
whether they're connected or not I think the problem here is that they're not connected MH I actually think that that
01:09:01
might be more of the issue and I think that they're I don't want to say they're they're all separate cases I think
01:09:08
there's a chance that one or two or three of them might be somehow linked mhm but I think that there are cases in
01:09:15
here that are different and the ones that that look different to me the second double homicide where we have the
01:09:23
Poss POS motive of rape of the female victim MH I think that that presents a whole new variable that we don't weapon
01:09:32
as well yeah that we didn't see in the other crimes I think that the local police Theory there might be somewhat
01:09:40
correct and their thought is that somebody they knew got them out of the the vehicle and shot them meaning they
01:09:46
might have been there to meet somebody and we have David's father who has said time and time again look this ragged
01:09:54
Island this was a place known for uh teenagers to hang out and do drugs to purchase drugs there is some thought
01:10:02
that maybe the two of them hey I pick up this girl that I barely know let's go out to this island let's party let's
01:10:07
have a really good time right and the thought here is that maybe they made a phone call to somebody to purchase some
01:10:15
drugs hey meet me out on ragged Island and for whatever reason that thing turned wrong that and there's one
01:10:21
individual in particular and the police haven't really released a lot of information on this individual
01:10:29
because this is speculation but there is a guy that they refer to as drug dealer
01:10:34
and rapist Washington okay they think that he is a possible very strong suspect in that
01:10:43
second double homicide he somehow knew the female victim and there was rumor that he had
01:10:51
told somebody that he wanted to that he wanted to rape her and he might wanted to rape and kill her there was a witness
01:10:59
that led law enforcement to this guy that we only know as quote drug dealer and rapist
01:11:06
Washington but the local police theory is that this Washington guy shows up on ragged Island to sell them drugs and
01:11:14
when he's there he decides he's going to rape the victim and it turns into a situation where he has to shoot the
01:11:20
female victim and the male victim execution stop okay so it's interesting that there is a
01:11:27
strong suspect there now the witness that led local police to this guy conveniently for this Washington guy
01:11:34
this eyewitness is no longer around he's dead and then we have a situation where with the fourth homicide the
01:11:45
fourth double homicide there was a suspect in this case and his name is Joseph Gody Joseph Gody knew the male
01:11:54
victim and may have known the female victim but it's believed that Gody knew that the male victim would have $800
01:12:01
cash on him at that time and that godi had somehow either intercepted these two individuals that were traveling or had
01:12:10
met up with them at the rest stop took them out into the woods and killed them there and then dumped the car near the
01:12:17
rest stop so I think we have a situation here where a couple of these cases might
01:12:23
not in fact be linked and I think that that the the argument and the squabble of them having been linked or not being
01:12:30
linked back and forth back and forth I think that that has been a major stumbling block in in in these cases
01:12:37
yeah and I think the interesting thing in all these cases that that the reason why people link them so much and it's
01:12:44
hard to not want to link them is cuz it always seems like it's like a traffic stop M their cars are always left in
01:12:52
some disarray of a traffic stop yeah and I think with this one maybe if one of these are solved soon I wouldn't be
01:13:01
surprised don't don't jump to the conclusion that if one case out of this series is solved soon that the rest are
01:13:08
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