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crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? I'm Kayla
00:00:34
Moore. And I'm Morgan Abshire. And we'd love for you to check out our new show, Clues. From serial killers to shocking
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cold cases, we dive into the clues that cracked some of the world's most [music]
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unforgettable investigations. Join us every Wednesday and listen to clues wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:57
>> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
00:01:33
you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me I have my partner in crime and
00:01:39
together we would like to welcome you to the husband friendly [music] true crime
00:01:43
podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, here is the captain. >> Yeah, hide your kids. Hide your wife.
00:01:48
Hide your husbands, too. [music] It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling
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a friend. This week, we are very excited to be featuring 14 karat by the bright folks
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over at Sun King Brewery. 14 karat is an IPA loaded with a blend of 14 hops for a
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those listeners who made today a bright spot on the garage calendar. First up, a
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big cheers to Jana listening in from Chicago, Illinois. >> And a big we like your jib goes out to
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Macy [music] and Conway, Arkansas. And last, but certainly not least, we have Melissa in
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Sanger, California. Everyone we mentioned, they went to our website, trimegar.com, clicked on the pint glass
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that helped us out with this week's beer fun. And for that, we thank you. Yeah, that's right. bwar, you win beerun. Go
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to true crimegar.com, sign up on the mailing list, go to our store page, pick up something, pick
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[music] up some swag. And if you need more True Crime Garage for your ear balls, make sure you subscribe to us
00:03:02
through the Apple Podcast app or through Patreon. And Colonel, that's enough of the business. All right, everybody,
00:03:09
gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. >> [music]
00:03:36
[music] >> months ago, we received the following letter. Hi, Nick and Cap. I've been listening for years. Love the
00:03:53
work you do. I was recently listening and you guys suggested if a first responder had a
00:04:00
local case that we'd like you to look at to email in. Well, here I am. I live in
00:04:08
Chicago, Illinois, and there is a case that is near and dear to my heart that needs your help.
00:04:15
Kiara Kohl's is a USPS worker who has been missing for 5 years. She was 3 months pregnant when she went
00:04:24
missing in October of 2018 at the age of 26 years old. She up and vanished. Her vehicle with her person were found
00:04:35
parked on her block. She was due to work that day but called in sick. When you call in sick for USPS, it is
00:04:45
not as simple as a quick phone call. I know someone who works for USPS and have heard them call in sick before. It's
00:04:55
about a 5-minute long process typing in special codes and employee numbers. Rumor here is we know who is
00:05:04
responsible. She is still missing and I feel like this case resurfacing could help. Thank you, a loyal listener.
00:05:15
So, as promised, we looked into this missing young woman's case, and we certainly did not like what we found.
00:05:22
Sure, Chicago, like many of our country's larger cities, can be a dangerous place. We've all heard the
00:05:29
stories of gang-style shootings, drugs, and murders of sex workers plaguing the city. But Chicago also has millions of
00:05:38
law-abiding upstanding residents, everyday folks who are just working hard to achieve the life they want for
00:05:44
themselves and for their families. One of them was 26-year-old Kiara Kohl's. Kiara had it all going for her. She was
00:05:55
gorgeous. She had a successful job she loved. She had a new apartment and a car. And she was having a baby. But then
00:06:04
suddenly someone took all of that away. Kiara Kohl's vanished from the face of the earth in October of 2018.
00:06:15
Where is Kiara Kohl's? This is True Crime Garage. [music] [music] >> [music] [music]
00:06:44
>> Kiara Michelle Kohl's was a 26-year-old woman whose life was all coming together. Kira was the fourth of five
00:06:52
children born to mom Karen Phillips. Her father was Joseph Kohl's. All of Karen's
00:06:59
kids names begin with the letter K. It was a very close family and Kiara had a lot of people who cared about her. Kiara
00:07:08
was a go-getter and her family says she was very outgoing and driven. Her mom said one word to describe her would be
00:07:17
ambitious. Her dad, Joseph, said her family nickname was Boss Lady Kohl's because she was very bossy and told
00:07:25
everyone in the family what to do. Now, even as a child, Kiara was loud and in charge. Her mom Karen said Kiara was
00:07:34
always a chatterbox, someone who was very outgoing. From an early age, she wanted to be in the media, TV, or radio.
00:07:43
She just enjoyed being out there. Kiara was a super girly person as well and would do professional level makeup jobs
00:07:52
for her friends and family members whether it be for a prom, weddings or so on. She was also known for her
00:08:00
appearance. She was a hair done, nails done, and dressed very nicely kind of person. Her only issue was that she had
00:08:08
asthma, but she had an inhaler and was able to keep her symptoms in check with that. In her 20s, Kiara lived in the
00:08:16
Chicago area. Like the rest of her family, she worked two part-time jobs to pay her bills. She lived on the 8100
00:08:25
block of South Vernon Avenue in the middle class Chattam neighborhood. This is a treeline street with rows of red
00:08:33
brick three-story apartment buildings with small lawns and curated hedges. Kiara also bought a car and drove for
00:08:42
Lyft. But it was her job as a seasonal mail sorter for the US Postal Service that she loved. She did that job on a
00:08:50
part-time basis for three years. She was determined to get the USPS to hire her on full-time as a letter carrier. And
00:09:00
she did. She got the job that she wanted. And it was the job that she loved. She loved putting on the uniform
00:09:08
and using her cart to tote the mail through residential Chicago neighborhoods. She started that position
00:09:13
in 2015 and everything for Kiara was going great. She also had a long-term boyfriend, Josh Simmons. Karen, her
00:09:23
mother, said that Josh treated Kiara well. Josh worked for the postal service as well. As far as Kiar's family knew,
00:09:30
all was good between Josh and Kiara. In October of 2018, Kiara was 26 years old and three months
00:09:40
pregnant. Josh Simmons, her long-term boyfriend, was the father. Kiara was thrilled, and her whole family was
00:09:48
thrilled. Kiara was the last one of Karen's kids to bear a child. And her family was they were over the moon about
00:09:55
the situation. Now, it's unclear if Josh was over the moon as well, but Kiara's family hadn't noticed anything a miss
00:10:02
with the young couple. Now, let's move to Tuesday, October 2nd, 2018. Kiara went to an appointment with her
00:10:13
aunt and a friend. The nature of this appointment has never been released, but it's believed to have been some kind of
00:10:20
prenatal appointment. It's unclear why, but Kiara had taken off Monday the 1st of October and Tuesday the 2nd of
00:10:30
October from her job. Apparently, letter carriers are expected to work long hours
00:10:37
and it's possible that Kiara was tired and not feeling great. We know she's pregnant at the time, but she seemed
00:10:46
like she was in a great mood when her mom talked to her that night. So, this October 2nd appointment, this is, and we
00:10:54
need to all make special mental note of this right here. This is very important to our timeline. This October 2nd
00:11:01
appointment was the last known in-person sighting of Kiara by her family. Kiara talked to her mom every day, and
00:11:12
so Tuesday, October 2nd, was no different. They spoke on the phone around 700 p.m. that night. Kiara was at
00:11:19
a local Wick grocery store and talked to her mom about the healthy foods that she
00:11:24
should be eating during her pregnancy and about the baby things that she wanted to buy. All seemed well. All
00:11:31
seemed normal. Karen later said, quote, "She was already excited about becoming a mother. That's all my child ever
00:11:38
wanted to be a mom and to accomplish all the things she's set out to accomplish.
00:11:44
to have a nice paying job, which she had, to get a new car, which she bought, to move into her own apartment, which
00:11:51
she did, and to become a mother, which she was about to do. The next day, Wednesday, mom calls Kiara again. It's
00:12:00
88° that day, and she wanted to remind her daughter to drink plenty of fluids for the sake of the baby. The call,
00:12:08
however, goes to voicemail. Well, Karen, the mom, very diligent, keeps trying, keeps trying to get a hold of Kiara,
00:12:17
calling several more times, but all getting the same result. This was odd and concerning. She called Kim. This is
00:12:26
Kiara's sister. But Kim hadn't heard from Kiara either, so they went to Snapchat. And I guess Kiara Captain was
00:12:35
a chronic snapper. She had not posted a story that day. So this was very unusual
00:12:44
by all considered. Mom and sister, family members are saying, "Look, this is our loved one who always answers our
00:12:51
calls. Sure, maybe the phone's dead. Maybe she's charging her phone. Maybe she forgot her phone and she's out.
00:12:57
>> But she always answers the phone and she's always Snapchatting. And none of this is happening at this time." Well,
00:13:05
just to be clear, she didn't call off October 2nd and 3rd in advance there. She called off in the morning of
00:13:14
the second and then again on the third. Correct. And the the call off is very important to our timeline as well.
00:13:21
Right. We know that she called off on the first. We know she called off on the second. And then we're going to learn
00:13:26
that she called off on the third as well. Again, we understand she has this appointment. So that makes sense, right?
00:13:34
you can't be at work and at your appointment all at the same time, but she's also pregnant and so maybe she
00:13:40
woke up not feeling great, decided to take the day off. That's one of the benefits of a great job like being a
00:13:45
letter carrier or working for USPS, >> right? >> They it takes a while to get hired on,
00:13:52
but once you get hired on, they have great benefits. And so this is a great job. And again, we don't know the exact
00:13:59
details of why the calloffs took place. But now this is going to lead us to Thursday, October 4th. So now we still
00:14:08
have no response from Kiara. Karen, her mother decided, you know what? I'm going
00:14:13
to go over to her apartment. Enough is enough. She gets there, she's alarmed because
00:14:20
her daughter's car is parked outside, but it's parked down the block, right? So, the apartment was locked and there's
00:14:27
no answer. Karen could hear that the TV was on inside of the apartment. So, now she's she's worried enough to go over
00:14:36
there, Captain. She sees the car in a strange spot, which makes her even more worried. And doors locked, no answer, TV
00:14:44
on inside. She is very worried at this point. So, she calls the boyfriend Josh Simmons and asks him if he could come
00:14:53
over because he has a key to the apartment. He says in this phone call that he does
00:15:01
not have a key to the apartment. And this is going to be very problematic to our story here, Captain, because Karen
00:15:08
says and has said many times very distinctly, recalling that Kiara said that she gave
00:15:15
Josh a key to her apartment. >> Yeah. Well, this is liar, liar, pants on fire. >> She's not lived there. This is not a
00:15:21
situation where she's lived there for 2 years or 3 years or 5 years and and she gave somebody a key and maybe she's
00:15:28
mistaken or he lost the key. She had only been there a few months. So, if she tells mom, I gave my boyfriend a key,
00:15:38
there's no reason to doubt that. So, she's a little suspicious now that uh Josh suddenly doesn't have a key.
00:15:47
>> Well, and remember they've been dating for six years. >> And he tells Karen that he hadn't seen
00:15:52
or talked to Kiara all day. Remember, this is the fourth. >> And he doesn't seem too worried.
00:15:58
>> Correct. So, what we have now is mom is going to jump into action. She calls Chicago PD and says, "I have a pregnant
00:16:07
daughter. I can't get a hold of her. I'm worried that she's like passed out on the floor in her apartment.
00:16:14
Shortly after the call to police, we now have the boyfriend Josh Simmons on scene. He's there with mom.
00:16:23
>> Yeah. Law enforcement's going to do a welfare check. >> We have Karen's husband who is there as
00:16:28
well. His name is Dan Perkins. So, both of them have arrived on the scene shortly before the cops show up. Now,
00:16:36
after the cops show up and getting no answer to pounding on the door and announcing a police presence, they took
00:16:42
the hinges off of the door and entered the apartment. Karen says that she was so terrified that there would be
00:16:49
something in the apartment that she didn't want to see, so she stayed outside taking deep breaths, trying to
00:16:56
remain calm. Josh and Kiier's stepdad, Dan. They went along with the officers into the
00:17:05
apartment. Then they come back outside a short time later announcing that the coast was clear. There's they found
00:17:11
nothing inside. >> Right. >> The TV was on. The place was neat and tidy as usual. The groceries, remember,
00:17:19
she was on the phone with mom when she was at the store. So, the groceries that Kiier had bought the evening before were
00:17:26
all put away where they belonged. As far as mom, stepdad, and boyfriend were all concerned. They're telling
00:17:33
police, "Look, yeah, there's no one here. That's strange." But also, there's nothing out of order. And there's no
00:17:40
sign of a struggle. Everything is as we would expect it to be, minus that we don't have Kiara here.
00:17:49
>> Yeah. No sign of a struggle. No sign of robbery. Kiara's car is there, but it's
00:17:56
not in her normal parking spot, but that happens sometimes in these apartment complexes where you get back home and
00:18:04
somebody has a couple people over, so you have to park down the street a little bit. But what they do find in her
00:18:11
house is her keys and her wallet. So where is she at? Did Did she take off on foot somewhere?
00:18:21
>> Yeah. So, let's stay on this vehicle situation for a minute here. So, as we said, Karen finds her daughter's car
00:18:30
there, and this is alarming to her because usually Kiara would park the vehicle directly in front of the
00:18:38
apartment on the street. They find the vehicle parked on the street, but it's down the block. And mom is saying,
00:18:46
"Look, this is not somewhere that Kiara would have parked, especially knowing that she spoke to her on the phone at
00:18:53
the grocery store and she would be hauling in groceries from the vehicle and we found those groceries put away
00:19:01
inside the apartment." So, I'm guessing here, Captain, that that mom and stepdad
00:19:07
are probably thinking, well, she she must have moved her vehicle or went some another place at
00:19:14
some point for the vehicle to be parked >> on the street >> at this location. So, mom calls a
00:19:21
locksmith because they want to get into the locked vehicle. And once they were able to access this vehicle, she found
00:19:29
Kiara's lunch bag all packed for her her day at work. The contents I have listed
00:19:35
here are an apple and orange water, her prenatal vitamins. In the trunk of the vehicle, they found Kiara's mail cart
00:19:45
that she used daily at work, and her work coat. But also inside the car were Kiara's purse and her cell phone, which
00:19:54
was sitting on a seat underneath of a jacket, one of Kiara's jackets. So, they're wondering where the hell is
00:20:00
Kiara. Karen starts calling Kiara's friends. No luck. She called all the local hospitals. Her daughter's not there
00:20:09
either. Cara had never been to jail, so that didn't seem likely. We're reaching out to everybody. We cannot find this
00:20:17
individual. >> But what we do have is the cell phone. But what I couldn't find anywhere was it
00:20:22
was there any suspicious activity on the cell phone. >> The family was not able to access
00:20:29
the cell phone due to password protection. Mom files an official missing person's report with the Chicago
00:20:37
Police Department on that very day, October 4th. CPD and the US Postal Inspection Service begin a joint
00:20:45
investigation into Kiara's disappearance. Her father, Joseph Kohl's, her biological father, he comes
00:20:52
into town from Racine, Wisconsin, where he lived, and he's now actively helping in on the search for his daughter.
00:21:00
>> Right. Joseph in his search, he goes doortodoor in the neighborhood asking people questions, handing out flyers. He
00:21:09
even was stopping passing cars to talk to the drivers, the passengers, and to hand them a missing person's flyer.
00:21:18
Karen began plastering flyers about Kiier all around the city, praying that Kiara had just been maybe having some
00:21:25
kind of mood swing from pregnancy hormones and would turn up. That didn't seem likely, but you can you really get
00:21:32
the feeling here, Captain, that they are just grasping onto any inch of hope that, you know, this is all just a
00:21:40
misunderstanding and she's going to turn up sooner rather than later. And it seems at this point between the
00:21:46
interactions between the family and the boyfriend Josh seem to be where Josh is trying to help, but it's also seems like
00:21:53
he's not uh like his stories aren't straight. Correct. That's that's exactly right.
00:22:02
And the the thing here though that's going to make it difficult for the family to keep grasping to any ounce of
00:22:11
hope is that they're seeing one thing, right? When they review her vehicle and the items
00:22:19
found in her vehicle, they're seeing one thing when they look at her apartment. Everything is as it should be. But then
00:22:26
they learn when talking to her place of work that she called in sick on that Wednesday,
00:22:33
October 3rd. USPS would not go into any details citing privacy interest, >> right?
00:22:39
>> But stated that Kiara had not vanished while on duty. So they wanted to be they
00:22:44
wanted to be clear like she called in sick. She didn't show up for work and then she went missing from here.
00:22:50
Whatever happened to Kiara happened before she ever got to work that day. And again, it's weird.
00:22:56
>> Yeah. Or happened the night before. >> Yeah. Because here the situation appears
00:23:01
that she packed a lunch, packed up her vehicle to go to work like any other day, but then called in sick. Now, it's
00:23:09
not out of the realm of possibility that maybe she packed up her lunch, took her purse and
00:23:17
her cell phone, puts it in the vehicle, and then suddenly gets ill and decides to go back into her apartment. That's
00:23:25
even though it doesn't make a whole lot of sense what they're seeing, that's not
00:23:28
out of the realm of possibility here. But again, if she's if she's sick and at home, she should be sick and at home and
00:23:36
we're not finding her at all. And like you said that we're trying to figure out this cell phone. Can this cell phone
00:23:43
tell us any information about her whereabouts or who she spoke to or her movements after we talked to her at the
00:23:50
grocery store? and they're not able to get into the cell phone because of the password
00:23:55
protection. >> And did she call off work through her cell phone? Because the thing that the
00:24:00
postal service can't tell us, can't confirm is what we what they can say is yes, somebody called off, but they can't
00:24:11
confirm that it was her. >> You see, it gets very difficult because they're going to say, the postal service
00:24:16
is going to say, "We believe it was her and here's why." Right? And it goes back
00:24:21
to the method and and the the protocol for calling off in that situation. And it sounds to me from everything I've
00:24:30
been told is that you got to punch in like employee numbers and codes and all kinds of things like it's a it's a
00:24:36
lengthy process. And so USPS is saying, "Look, somebody provided us all the information that would tell us that this
00:24:44
is Kiara that actually calling in and phoning off from work, >> right? >> But but as you said, if if somebody
00:24:53
knows that information and knows that protocol and you is used to that, >> then one could perform that task and it
00:25:03
doesn't have to be Kiara." >> No. And the person that is being a little suspicious is her boyfriend of 6
00:25:11
years, her baby daddy, right? And he would know those protocols and he would probably know the
00:25:19
information on how to have her call off with her not actually being [music] present.
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at indeed.com/mpodcast. All right, we are back. Onwards and upwards. Cheers to you, Colonel. Cheers
00:29:49
to you, Captain. Often we say tall cans in the air, and this week, very fittingly so, because the 14 karat comes
00:29:56
in the pint can. So, it is tall cans in the air. And oh, little special announcement here, too. We did put some
00:30:05
signed books, the Deli murders back up on the website. This will be the last batch going out before Christmas. So, if
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you want to gift >> the best book ever written to somebody, uh, feel free to pick one up at true
00:30:19
crimegar.com. Or if you want to gift one to yourself, um, that's a great idea, too. So, last batch before Christmas,
00:30:26
tell your friends. Also want to welcome the colonel to the Instagram. So if you're not following him,
00:30:34
TCGNic, do so so you can be part of the cool kids. Now, let's get back to this case.
00:30:41
One thing that is very different about the more recent cases that we cover compared to the older and colder cases
00:30:49
is the technology. And one thing that we're seeing time and time again with these more recent cases, the way that
00:30:55
we're solving these crimes and solving these mysteries is with things like cell phones and surveillance cameras. You
00:31:05
know, in the old days, >> every business had a surveillance camera that they never replace the tape for or
00:31:12
actually didn't work or the time stamp was completely wrong. But today, many people have the doorbell cameras,
00:31:20
whether it be from the great folks over at Simply Safe or any number of outfits.
00:31:25
But these surveillance cameras in these neighborhoods coming from residential places are really helping police. And
00:31:33
now we we know how important the timeline is. Police are going to go around this neighborhood. They're
00:31:40
looking for surveillance video footage to help them fill in the timeline of their missing person. So, they collect
00:31:48
all of this video footage and they start reviewing it. But then a reporter brought them some footage that she had
00:31:55
uncovered. >> Right. >> This was from a couple living two buildings down from Kiara who reviewed
00:32:01
their camera footage and found footage of the missing young woman. They rushed out and they brought the footage to the
00:32:08
attention of an NBC Chicago reporter, one who had went doortodoor trying to drum up leads in the case. [snorts] The
00:32:17
video was timestamped Wednesday, October 3rd, 2018 at 11:54 a.m. So, this is daytime. And on this video, they believe
00:32:28
that it showed Kiara. She's dressed in USPS uniform, carrying a backpack and walking down the block. But the thing
00:32:37
is, she walked past her own car and kept going, walking away from her apartment.
00:32:44
She walked down the block and then changed direction. Karen's husband, Dan Perkins, told WGN9
00:32:53
Chicago that quote, "She seen something that made her turn around that fast and cross
00:32:59
the street and her car was on the other side of the street." End quote. She then
00:33:05
walked out of the frame, so they could not see where she went from there. The last image of her was captured at 82nd
00:33:12
Street and Kohl's Avenue. So Kiara, our missing person, who had not answered her mom's calls all morning
00:33:20
on October 3rd, from what the video is showing them, she's dressed and she's heading to work that morning. And she
00:33:27
had put all of her stuff in her car. We know that from reviewing her vehicle, but also she called in sick and then
00:33:33
vanished. So none of this is really making any sense to everyone who's looking for Kiara.
00:33:40
>> But there's some problems initially. I mean, you'd think that we'd see this video footage and go, "Oh, well, there
00:33:47
she is, but not everybody's convinced that that is Kiara, >> right? We have Mom, who Mom knows best,
00:33:55
watched the footage over and over and over again once it was released to the public. And she's watching it over and
00:34:02
over again. One, looking for clues, anything to help her find her daughter. But then she's also watching it
00:34:08
repeatedly thinking something's off about what she's seeing. >> And this makes me go back to the idea of
00:34:15
we can't confirm that she's the one that called off on the third. Now we have this image of her in uniform walking to
00:34:25
her car like she's going to go to work, but we can't even confirm that that's her. Well, what happens is she goes to
00:34:33
police and she says, "Look, she's talking to the detectives and says, "I've been watching this video
00:34:41
footage and the video footage that you have of a young black woman in a USPS uniform
00:34:49
walking down Kiara's block the day after she was last heard from." I'm mom and I'm here to tell you that's
00:34:57
not my daughter Kiara in that video. and she says, quote, "It's a mother thing. You just know your child. That's not her
00:35:04
walk. She was a little bit smaller and a little bit shorter than the person that
00:35:08
she was seeing in the video." So, police, they get this information and you think that they would be floored,
00:35:16
but actually they're not surprised at all. In fact, they tell Karen that they knew that the video was not
00:35:23
that of Kiara. They This was prior knowledge to them. They said that look, it's another female postal worker who
00:35:31
happens to live on the same block and we've identified who the person is in the video, we've just not updated the
00:35:38
public, >> right? >> And they're saying the the person in the video that's seen, while it does look a
00:35:46
lot like Kiara given the uniform and all, the the actual person abruptly turned around because she had forgotten
00:35:53
something from her residence. She went back to get it and then she walked to the bus stop. And so that's why she's
00:36:00
walking past Kiara's car. It's not her car. It's not Kiara. The cops tell Karen though, even though we know this
00:36:07
information, don't say anything. Keep this to yourself. >> Well, be because this video footage is
00:36:12
probably drawing up some leads. >> It's drawing up leads and it's also leading people to police.
00:36:19
>> Right. >> Right. Because people were viewing this video. They're sharing this video.
00:36:23
They're watching it. They're they're looking for clues, too. Some of these people are reaching out to police. And
00:36:28
so, when you have this tool, this is a very important tool for law enforcement because you are looking at Kiara's
00:36:36
circle, her family and her friends. Why is she missing? And now you don't always know everybody
00:36:44
that she knew. you may not know everybody that she talked to or had interactions with during the time in
00:36:50
question, which it seems like is about a two and a half, three day period. And so you have now have this tool that
00:36:58
you've put out to the people that is snaring individuals coming into you and saying, "Oh, I knew this young woman,
00:37:05
>> right? I here's how I know her." So, but also when you first hear that they release this video
00:37:14
footage and then you find out that the mother isn't convinced it's her daughter. Uh what what was the first
00:37:20
thing that popped into your head? Cuz cuz mine was not mistaken identity and actually a postal worker. My thought
00:37:29
was is it possible this is some kind of decoy? >> Yeah. No, the I I was thinking the exact
00:37:35
same thing because it goes back to the question of who actually called in sick on the third.
00:37:40
>> Exactly. >> And if if you can make that leap already that maybe that wasn't Kiara, then you
00:37:46
start going, okay, well then maybe it's not her in the video and somebody somebody manipulated the system calling
00:37:54
in calling off sick for her to make it look like everything is as it should be. And oh, by the way, here's somebody
00:38:02
dressed up like Kiara walking down the side of the street. Now, if you really want to try to throw police off and
00:38:09
really want to stage a scene, the best thing to do would have been to get in that vehicle and drive it away and park
00:38:15
it in some random neighborhood somewhere. >> Exactly. But and uh the other thing here
00:38:21
too though with this case that I think is so frustrating frustrating for the family and for the parents and is you
00:38:29
have this boyfriend of 6 years. His girlfriend is 3 months pregnant. She's super excited
00:38:38
and this guy's stories just don't [clears throat] make a lot of sense. I mean even just hey come over. You have a
00:38:45
key. Let's check the apartment. No, I'm sorry. All right, I don't have a key. What? I know you have a key.
00:38:51
>> Well, and it gets difficult too because you have extenduating circumstances, right? You have situation where where
00:38:59
women in general are more likely to be prey than than a a male victim would be. And then on top of
00:39:10
that, you we we've reviewed a case, at least one case, if not a couple here in the garage where a pregnant woman is
00:39:18
taken because she's pregnant. >> Right now, our person of interest or the person that we're talking about here
00:39:26
today is pretty early in the pregnancy, so that doesn't seem incredibly likely. But you're trying to factor all this in
00:39:35
and you go back to the video real quick. My belief is that police probably released this to the public.
00:39:44
Again, it was given to a reporter, so maybe the reporter released it to the public. I don't know exactly who was in
00:39:50
charge of releasing it. We know that they the police were in charge of telling Karen to be hush- hush about it
00:39:55
not being your daughter in the video, right? But my belief is that when it was released to the public and whoever
00:40:01
released it to the public at that time believed that it was Kiara and then later police were able to confirm no
00:40:10
it's not Kiara and it's also not somebody posing attempting to make anybody believe that it is Kier. It's
00:40:18
just a happen stance that another woman works for the post office and lives on her same street and was captured on
00:40:25
video that same day. Yeah, I was reading something and and tell me if this is if
00:40:31
this is true. I mean, it it sounds unbelievable, but I I believe it's true. The number one cause
00:40:40
of death towards a pregnant woman is homicide. I think that that depends on where you
00:40:48
are getting your information because I've seen that reported as well, but I've also seen homicide as the third.
00:40:55
>> Yeah. But even if it's in the top 10, we we live in a pretty messed up society.
00:41:01
>> Well, I mean, look at it. If if we lived in a perfect society, we would have no
00:41:07
show. So, >> well, I'd rather live in a perfect society and not have a show. >> No, I'm not saying that we that that
00:41:14
thank you world for being cruel to other people. I'm not saying that one bit. But
00:41:18
if we want to go down that road, that's that's the truth of the matter, >> right? So
00:41:25
this situation, we're going to go we're going to leap forward in time and then we're going to go back in time as well
00:41:31
here. So bear with me for a second here, Captain. So remember Karen is told to be
00:41:35
hush- hush about this information. She holds on to this information, keeping it to herself for two years. Two full
00:41:42
years. After that, she said, "Look, I'm done keeping this to myself. It hadn't done any good to keep it quiet. The case
00:41:50
is cold by this point." So, she tells everybody, >> "Look, that's not my daughter in the
00:41:55
video. Police told me to be quiet about it." And she's she's not blaming police.
00:41:59
It was a strategy that they attempted to use to hopefully find her daughter. >> Do you know who I love in this case?
00:42:08
>> Who? >> Karen. That's who I love. >> Of course. >> Every interview. I like the fact that
00:42:14
when she is telling you and she's telling the media, I'm not going to give up. There's no doubt that she's not going to
00:42:23
give give up and I I'm glad that this case is getting a little more attention. So, keep in mind Karen is
00:42:32
saying that I last spoke to my daughter. She's at the grocery store. This is at 700 p.m. approximately on Tuesday,
00:42:40
October 2nd. And so now with this information going public, Karen is telling the public, I really believe
00:42:49
that something happened to my daughter between the hours of 7:00 p.m. when I last spoke to her on Tuesday, October
00:42:55
2nd, and 8:00 a.m. Wednesday morning, October 3rd. This is when Karen is calling her daughter and it's going to
00:43:04
voicemail. So the first time that she is aware that something could be wrong. So, we're
00:43:10
dealing with about a 13-hour window here that Karen is saying, "This is the time
00:43:16
that I'm concerned with. This is when whatever went wrong went wrong." >> But also, isn't law enforcement also
00:43:23
stating that they believe she went missing on the second? >> Well, so that's part of the problem with
00:43:29
this case. So, what's crazy, look, it's it's incredibly crazy that the video footage is not Kiara.
00:43:36
>> Yeah. Yeah, the the video that was out there for 2 years and then then we the
00:43:41
public find out that's not Ki. >> And I I don't agree with that call. I agree with hey, we put out the video,
00:43:49
we started getting some calls, we got some leads. Don't wait 2 years. >> See, the problem with that becomes this.
00:43:58
Like, first off, that's the only video footage that was public until 2022, >> right? we're going to get more video
00:44:06
footage that's going to be more important to this case than that of the video not featuring our victim that was
00:44:13
out there for 2 years. So that that video that's out there for two years, it's deceptive.
00:44:18
But the strategy is it's resulting in tips and leads for detectives, which is great. But here's the problem with that.
00:44:26
You got to figure that a that a high percentage if not all of the tips and leads that it's providing to you are
00:44:32
just doomed to lead to nowhere because it's not you know what I mean? Help me to help you. I'm giving you
00:44:40
false information. >> Yeah. >> And and saying that this this is this is going to lead to good leads. No, it
00:44:46
might lead to leads. Like I said, the the the powerful thing, the important thing for police, it's going to lead you
00:44:51
to people that you may have not considered or were unaware of to talk to. So, that's a positive. The negative
00:44:58
is my belief that most of the leads you're going to get will result in a dead end because they're not they're not
00:45:05
going to go anywhere, >> right? Because you're also saying, "Hey, have you seen this person?" Well, if
00:45:10
somebody saw that person, they didn't see the right person that you're looking for. Well, and the thing too that you
00:45:16
have to wonder about if the person responsible for making our victim disappear is also the same person that called in
00:45:25
sick for her. Right? We have listeners telling us that only someone who works for USPS could call in
00:45:34
sick. That's not something that that I could do. I couldn't call in. Let's give a shout out to our friend Williams who's
00:45:42
probably delivering mail or running from a a nasty dog in a neighborhood right now listening to this show.
00:45:49
>> Well, let's just make this clear. >> Hello, Williams. >> Shout out to Williams. So,
00:45:54
>> it's your buddies. It's your buddies, Captain Colonel. Hello. >> He's We We've learned that that I could
00:46:02
not call in sick for Williams and pull it off, right? Because you have to have codes and all kinds of stuff. And like
00:46:09
we said, it's not a short process. It takes several minutes. I've had more than one person tell me that it takes
00:46:14
about four or five minutes and you got to jump through some hoops to to get that day off. So that's really
00:46:22
interesting because that tells me that if you have a suspect pool that likely your person
00:46:31
you can limit that pool of suspects to somebody that would have knowledge of that system. meaning either they're a
00:46:37
postal worker themselves or they had witnessed a postal worker do this multiple times to the point where they
00:46:46
were comfortable and able to pull it off. Well, like we, you know, like I said earlier, Josh, old old red flag
00:46:55
Josh, that's why I'm going to start calling him old red flag Josh works for the postal service. He would know the
00:47:03
ins and outs. He'd probably also know her employee number or it might be on a badge or something that she has to wear.
00:47:13
Yeah. And again, we have this situation where the family and police are the only
00:47:18
ones that know for about 2 years that Kiara was not in that video and that they're that opens up their timeline
00:47:26
considerably. So, all things on that front are looking bad. What we do know is that she left
00:47:33
everything behind. Her car, her purse, her inhaler, which most people that have asthma, they are they usually don't
00:47:41
forget their inhaler. If if they're without their inhaler, it's it's simply because it slipped their mind. The
00:47:47
captain and I have different information here that is, you know, we we go to different sources and there's a lot of
00:47:53
different source material on this case. One bit of information that I have that varies from the captain's is my
00:48:00
information says her car keys were missing. And so if that is in fact true, then really the only things missing in
00:48:09
action at this point for the police's investigation is Kiara, who's with child and possibly her keys as well.
00:48:17
Everything else is where it should be. Uh the car just parked a little bit further away from the apartment than one
00:48:24
would expect. >> Yeah. But I'd also say her purse. Most people would not park their car on
00:48:32
the street and leave their purse in the car. Most people would wouldn't leave their cell phone in their car.
00:48:38
>> Exactly. Exactly. But it's also, you know, >> but but it's there. >> It's the situ It is the situation. Now,
00:48:44
this is not our first time talking about the Chicago Police Department, and it won't be our first time talking about
00:48:51
their unwillingness to release information about active cases. We saw the same thing in the case that we
00:48:56
covered in our episodes about missing children. This is missing kids Tonda and Diamond Bradley. Now, here in Kiara's
00:49:04
case, the police have never disclosed much about their investigation. We do know that Kiar's case was very quickly
00:49:10
treated as an endangered missing person's case. So, police acknowledging quickly that something bad had happened
00:49:18
to Kiara, >> right? >> But it's unclear what evidence they have of this, if any at all. They did
00:49:24
interview her family, friends, and co-workers. They looked at all of her social media as well. Her sister,
00:49:31
Kimberly, remarked that it was extremely odd and unsettling to see Kiara's Snapchat dormant.
00:49:38
Normally she snapped and posted on Instagram daily. >> Yeah. But al also if you're law
00:49:43
enforcement, you know that women that are pregnant have a higher percentage chance to be met with foul
00:49:52
play. So I think you can go, well, she left her car here, left her purse here. It
00:50:00
doesn't look like she ran away. So, I think it's um makes sense why they would come to that conclusion that it's more
00:50:08
likely she was met with foul play. >> Well, and we do know that they retrieved her phone and they went through her
00:50:14
phone. They went through the computer analyzing them. They used chemicals to search for forensic evidence in her
00:50:21
apartment and basically dismantled her car looking for evidence. What they found is unknown. As said, they've not
00:50:30
released much in this case. They also reviewed thousands of hours of video surveillance footage and didn't reveal
00:50:36
what they found in that regard until 2022. Now, in the meantime, rumors were flying
00:50:44
about this case. The public thought maybe Kiara had been abducted while on her postal route,
00:50:49
>> right? >> There were even rumors that her her stepfather, Dan Perkins, was somehow
00:50:54
involved. I don't understand why. It's a little unclear to me why that was even a
00:50:59
rumor. Karen denied had to publicly deny that her husband wasn't involved in any
00:51:04
way. >> Well, I see. I wondered because he was going door to door and he was stopping
00:51:08
people and maybe that ruffled some people's feathers. >> That was her biological father.
00:51:13
>> Oh, well, that makes sense. I'm what they call sometimes stupid. >> So, what we do know is that
00:51:21
mom, who we all love here, she's she's the angel. She's the the fighting angel for her daughter.
00:51:30
She's worked this last 5 years to keep this case alive. >> And just so I'm clear, you're I mean,
00:51:35
you're not throwing Chicago police under the bus. I mean, yes, it's this case has
00:51:41
been going on for 5 years, but it's not like it's we're in year 10 or year 15 and they're still not releasing more
00:51:48
information to try to drum drum up leads. I >> I'm not happy with their handling of
00:51:53
this case. Um, and and I won't really dance around that and we can get into more of that in part two.
00:52:00
>> I just think it's difficult for law enforcement if you're in that position of what do you release to the public and
00:52:08
what do you hold back because you you're eventually going to have to build a case
00:52:12
against somebody. >> Well, here's one thing that we do know and talking about building cases. So,
00:52:17
let's talk a little bit about suspects, right, Captain? So, of course, police interviewed Josh Simmons, Kiara's
00:52:22
boyfriend. old red flag. >> And some interesting things came out about Josh. He and Kiara had been
00:52:29
together for six years at this point and now they are having a baby together. Everybody knew that.
00:52:34
>> Kiara seemed very happy with Josh. Everybody knew that. And Josh was happy too. Or at least they thought because
00:52:41
later everyone will find out that he had a whole other long-term relationship with another woman that he was involved
00:52:49
with. I I get conflicting reports here. Some reports say that they were married.
00:52:54
Some reports say that they are boyfriend and girlfriend for a long term. But what
00:52:58
we do know that's not conflicting is that they did have kids together. So they're living a life together.
00:53:06
And so what police learn is that Kiara, our missing person, was his girlfriend on the side. Yeah. It's very
00:53:17
tough here because you hear that they dated for six years and then you go, "Oh, Josh is a cheater
00:53:25
cheater pumpkin eater." But was he cheating on uh Kiara or was he cheating >> with Kiara?
00:53:36
>> The the cheating part is weird because and normally it's pretty pretty obvious
00:53:41
what's going on here. Not so much. So, the other woman's name, get this, is Kiara.
00:53:49
So, >> Kiara and Kiara. >> Yeah. Now, to be clear, what we learn is this. Kiara,
00:53:56
long-term girlfriend, six years. Kiara, who he may have even been married to or is married to,
00:54:03
>> right? >> They know about each other. So, they both know that Josh is in a long-term
00:54:09
relationship with the other. So, I mean, we could you could call it cheating for a lack of a better term,
00:54:16
but >> it's not really cheating if everybody knows what's going on. >> Everybody knows what's going on. So, now
00:54:21
we what we don't know is whether this was something that one or both were just simply putting up with or if one or both
00:54:30
were totally cool with it. We could also have a situation with with one being cool with it and the other not. We don't
00:54:37
know. But this guy is a complete [ __ ] He this guy is a complete you're right when you meet when you're with Kiara or
00:54:46
Kiara whichever one you're with first once you meet the other girl and you go oh I fancy you too. What's your name? Oh
00:54:55
those names are too similar. I'm sorry. I'm going to hard pass on this one. Can you imagine trying to get that right? Oh
00:55:03
wait, which one did I wake up next to? Kiara or Kiara? Well, and we also see reports that Kiara,
00:55:12
the the other girl that we just introduced, also worked at USPS. [laughter] So, this is a really unique situation.
00:55:21
All three of these persons working for the United States Postal Service and all in this weird
00:55:28
>> messy triangle, >> difficult to understand Postal Service love triangle. He was [laughter]
00:55:35
he was he was known at work as Josh red flag dirty dick. Police of course they're
00:55:44
very interested in talking to Josh once they learn this new information. Now they want to talk to him again and again
00:55:50
and again. They've never named him as a suspect. All the investigators have said
00:55:55
about Josh is that when they have interviewed him in the past, he's given quote varying accounts end quote of the
00:56:04
last time he saw Kiara. Chicago PD detectives said quote he gave us some conflicting accounts, wasn't
00:56:11
consistent on some of the statements, and then didn't want to talk to us. So after his initial interview, Josh at
00:56:19
some point lawyers up and reportedly has never talked to police since he gained counsel. Karen turned against Josh
00:56:28
pretty quickly, rightfully so, after he told her right away. She says >> when he said he didn't have a key to the
00:56:35
apartment, >> she was suspicious of him right then and there. >> This lady is brilliant. But also, am I
00:56:45
is this information correct? Not only has he not really been cooperative, not only has his stories kind of varied, not
00:56:53
made sense, but he has moved out of state. Well, and so this this is the other problem too with with Josh and adds to
00:57:04
the level of concern here coming from Karen. Let's pretend for a minute that he doesn't have a key and he's telling the
00:57:12
truth. Okay, let's pretend that that's real. I don't believe it. I believe he had a key and now he conveniently
00:57:18
doesn't have one. But let's pretend that that's that he's telling the truth there. What we also know, another
00:57:24
statement coming from Karen here is that when she had her last conversation on the phone with her daughter Kiara, Kiara
00:57:33
not only said she's at the grocery store and this that and the other thing, but she also says that night on October 2nd
00:57:39
that Josh was coming over that night. And and if I was Karen when he got there to check the apartment and he says,
00:57:46
"Yeah, I don't have a key." Well, I'm pretty for sure that you have a key. No, I don't have a key. I would have said,
00:57:52
"Can we check your pockets?" >> Well, but the other problem, too. So, let's let's continue on this road for a
00:57:58
moment. He says when he meets up with Karen and others, he says, "I didn't see her
00:58:04
the night of the second." Which is weird because daughter tells mom he's coming over.
00:58:09
>> Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. >> He also says, "Look, I didn't see her. I've not seen her at all, but I've been
00:58:16
talking to her, >> which seems to be highly unlikely, probably untrue as well, because
00:58:21
remember Kiara's cell phone was found in her car. So, when did it get to her car? And once it
00:58:31
was there, he clearly wasn't talking to her after that time period. >> Well, again, how are you communicating
00:58:37
with her? And why is she communicating with you and not her mother? Doesn't make any sense. Mom also says that Josh
00:58:45
did not help to disseminate flyers about the missing young woman. He didn't participate in searches
00:58:53
for her as well. >> Well, you don't have to search for somebody that you know is dead.
00:58:58
>> And Karen says, quote, "I can't understand. You dated my daughter for 6 years. I took you to be a decent guy.
00:59:04
You work and go to church and now my daughter is pregnant and missing and you do nothing." End quote. friends of
00:59:10
Kiaras like her friend Kiara Johnson. This is another this is a whole different person. I don't know why
00:59:18
everybody has practically the same name in this case, but this is a third person
00:59:22
now. A friend of Kiaras post on social media begging everyone to help out in a search for Kiara. So, as you heard,
00:59:31
we're we're talking about Kiara's father, Joseph, biological father, Joseph, pulling out all the stops
00:59:37
looking for his daughter. This man lives in another state, lives in Wisconsin, travels to Chicago, and stays there
00:59:46
permanently looking for his daughter, knocking on doors, stopping cars, passing out flyers. And yet, postal
00:59:54
employee, boyfriend, and baby daddy Josh Simmons did none of the above. >> [music]
01:00:11
>> If you are a member of law enforcement or a first responder and you have a case
01:00:14
from your jurisdiction that you would like for us to take a look at here in the garage, please go to our website
01:00:20
trueimeg.com and find our contact information. And until tomorrow, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
01:00:33
>> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Hey there, it's [music] Katie Nolan,
01:01:05
host of Casuals, the sports podcast where we don't care how much you know about sports, we're just happy that
01:01:10
you're here. Every week, I hang out with [music] some of my good friends to discuss the biggest stories across
01:01:14
sports and entertainment, but in a way that's like fun [music] and not boring. Want to know Subird's favorite Diana
01:01:20
Terrasi story or how heavy the Larry O'Brien trophy is? Or even what baseball team is right for you based on your moon
01:01:26
sign? We got you. Listen to Casuals [music] every Tuesday and Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get
01:01:31
your podcasts. Bye.