00:00:00
on this episode of off the Record we made it this is part four of us discussing the Amy mihalovic case which
00:00:07
is episode number 22. thanks for joining us and as always cheers mates [Applause]
00:00:18
[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] so it's it's it's very interesting to me because
00:00:36
when we first started the show um and we're just sitting in the garage well actually at that point it was your
00:00:44
garage but a cold hot it's hot it's mostly hot mostly hot there's damn dogs barking all the time
00:00:55
she had one job don't let the dogs out um but when we're back there if because we we've never shied away from
00:01:07
this you were the True Crime guy and I was the guy that could record but we'd also have these really long
00:01:16
talks about cases blah blah so but you being the True Crime guy and here's what's really interesting was
00:01:26
talking with uh one of our detective friends the other week and he was saying um well
00:01:34
you know because he knew us before and he was saying you know I I knew that you were into crime or into talking about
00:01:42
that kind of stuff but you weren't like super into it not like I do my own research and it's crazy to me that we've
00:01:49
done all these cases I'm more interested by it now I mean obviously we do it every week but I find
00:01:58
it more interesting I find these little minute details that maybe I shouldn't find super interesting but I find it
00:02:04
actually a lot more interesting um well that no you you've touched upon something that is key there and look
00:02:12
Okay so in every crime that's committed there is a mistake that is made by the offender
00:02:20
the a lot of times the trick of solving the crime is finding what that mistake is yeah exploiting it leading you to him
00:02:29
or her and then using it to get a conviction using it to build evidence to get a
00:02:34
conviction so where you say minute details and you've always said it that the devil is in the details and you're
00:02:42
you are exactly right because if you can find that one mistake or if you can find
00:02:48
the one little thing that may connect the offender to the victim if you can find that link you might know who did it
00:02:56
and so let's let's I I'm glad you you touched on that because this is one thing that I've been doing
00:03:04
lately with the in regards to the Amy mahalovic case so for some of these cases that that I drag around with me
00:03:12
and the cases that you drag around with you what I do from time to time is I like to
00:03:18
okay so I spent three or four nights looking into Amy's case again and I told myself I wasn't going to let
00:03:27
it consume me and then Amy kept me up for three or four nights I mean I was up till you say you're going to sit down
00:03:35
for a couple hours next thing you know it's one two o'clock in the morning where were you were you drinking
00:03:39
no and I was sitting as you do that thing where it's like you have one or two drinks and then all of a sudden it's
00:03:46
like six drinks later yeah yeah but not one not when I'm looking at the cases because it gets too
00:03:53
Dr it it's work right right and and what happens with me by the time I hit the second beer I'm not doing any more work
00:04:01
right right so anyway turn on Rolling Stones and let's go and I actually find you know how like some people if they if
00:04:08
they smoke some pot and they play video games they're like something happens where I'm in the zone where I just I get
00:04:14
to this level where it feels like I can just do anything I want on the video game like I'm one with my player one
00:04:21
with my vehicle on there well where I hit that mode is when it's about one o'clock in the morning was pitch black
00:04:29
outside when my house is completely quiet where you can where it's late enough at night where you can almost
00:04:35
feel the the heat coming from the light bulbs in your house there's some Zone that I go into during that that those
00:04:43
hours where I'm I'm a little more open to different ideas and things kind of creep
00:04:50
in and so one thing that I do with some of these red light cases is sometimes I'll
00:04:58
throw out my old Theory and I'll say all right I'm going to go into this and I'm
00:05:01
going to look at it and I'm going to look for one thing one little detail that that if I can
00:05:08
pose if maybe there's a question within that detail right and if an eye can answer that question then this could
00:05:14
point me in a direction of who did this or it could point me in the direction of
00:05:19
a likely pool of suspects so the thing here is with the Amy case I completely threw out my theory and I
00:05:27
when I was going through it I really honed in on one thing that happened and this was a phone call
00:05:34
that took place after Amy was abducted after she was abducted she called her mother her mother was at work
00:05:43
and she told her mother her mother wanted to know you know I I spoke to your brother
00:05:49
he said you weren't home why weren't you home and Amy tells her mother a lie she says
00:05:55
well I stayed late at school for it was either a choir practice or acquire tryout I don't know her exact words but
00:06:03
we do know that that didn't happen there was no choir practice or try out that day
00:06:09
so what I rarely honed in on there was was this thing she's 10 years old her mother had not worked at this place
00:06:19
for is that fifth grade yes she was in fifth grade at the time she her mother had not worked at this
00:06:26
place for a long period of time right she's new to the place so I and when we say new I don't know
00:06:34
how new it wasn't like days or weeks it was she had been there for a while but I
00:06:38
but she hadn't been there like her whole life Amy's whole life she called her mother after she was
00:06:45
abducted now this little thing that happens here could take you down two different
00:06:51
Avenues either a Amy knew and had memorized her mother's work phone number or B she hadn't
00:07:04
and if she had not that means that her abductor knew Amy's mother's work phone number yeah or
00:07:13
knew where she worked because back in that day I mean I just remember using the Yellow Pages a lot more back
00:07:23
in the day well her mother worked for the trading times so here's my thought on this I don't
00:07:32
know we can't say with certainty that Amy would have been able to tell the abductor I don't know the phone number
00:07:37
but my mother works at the trading times but what I'm saying is the abductor wouldn't actually have to know the
00:07:45
number he would just have to know where she works and that could be you could find that out probably
00:07:54
multiple different ways is what I'm saying no I agree with that I like your theory I agree with you but but you got
00:08:01
to consider this Avenue that I'm thinking of here because regardless at the time that that
00:08:08
phone at the time of that phone call two things have occurred one Amy's already been abducted and two one either
00:08:17
her or the offender knew the phone number at that time or that phone Call's not getting placed
00:08:24
why is that phone call made it clearly being made to buy time for the abductor to buy time
00:08:33
okay explain yourself well he he needs Amy's mother to believe that she's fine right right don't call
00:08:41
the cops right she's not in my car she's not in my home she's she stayed late at
00:08:46
school to go to choir practice Amy's mom assumed that the call was coming from Amy calling from their home
00:08:53
after she came home late from this choir practice when in fact she's calling late because
00:08:59
she's been abducted by this time yeah yeah she didn't sound stressed because she wouldn't have sound stressed because
00:09:07
like you said Amy's mom thought those were coming from their home right I think Margaret's words were that she
00:09:14
sounded hurried she doesn't say stress she says that Amy sound hurried well yeah because I'm assuming the
00:09:24
abductor probably told her there's going to be some signs or whatever possibly he
00:09:28
said or just did the typical hurry up wrap it up who knows what he told her before she
00:09:36
made the call well what where I'm going with this is my old Theory and and I still it's still the theory that I like
00:09:43
the most for me but um the reason why I do these little exercises is because you can't hone in
00:09:49
on one Theory and just think that you're right you got to look at every aspect of
00:09:53
the case that's what a lot of people on the internet do so what I what I decided
00:09:57
to do was let's find a different angle here and actually this angle would 50 percent point to possibly the guy knew
00:10:07
Amy's family somehow maybe Amy didn't know him but he would have known her family and what I mean by that is the
00:10:15
phone calls that were going to the mahalovic home when he spoke to her there we don't know that he specifically
00:10:22
named where Margaret worked we don't know that he specifically named Margaret by name what I mean by that is I could
00:10:30
call somebody's home in 1989 and a little kid pick up the phone and used the same ruse that he used without using
00:10:38
the parent's name or where that parent worked his ruse was I I work with your mother
00:10:45
she recently got a promotion and we're going to get I need help picking out a gift for her
00:10:52
so so you didn't use the name and you have to use the title of work okay right I so I've always gone off of the
00:11:01
impression that because we don't we don't think he used Margaret's name or where she worked that maybe this guy
00:11:08
only pretended to know the mahalovic family right however if he abducts Amy and decides
00:11:16
that a phone call needs to be made to buy some time and Amy doesn't know her mom's work phone number or the name of
00:11:24
her mother's business then the offender must have so he knew the mahalovic family enough to know where Amy's mother
00:11:32
worked mm-hmm the other thing is she left her bicycle at the school and this goes along with this this whole
00:11:42
theory that maybe he knew where Margaret worked because why I don't understand because she could
00:11:51
have just rode her bike to the plaza helped him pick out a gift and then rode her bike home but let's let's say this
00:11:58
okay there's a chance that there may have been more than one phone call between him and Amy before he abducted
00:12:05
her or there's just one phone call it doesn't matter but the way that I the way that I could see this going is that
00:12:14
he's saying okay to himself let's see what I can get her to agree to and if I can get her to agree to this
00:12:21
then let's see how far I can take it so not only will you meet me to help pick out a gift for your mom sure I'll
00:12:29
meet you okay well you ride your bike to school just leave your bike at the school because the Plaza's within
00:12:36
walking distance just leave your bike at the school meet me at the plaza well why would she
00:12:43
do that why why would she do that unless being instructed to right right and the
00:12:48
reason why I suggest this is Amy was seen at the plaza that's how we know she went there right
00:12:56
if Amy was never seen at the plaza and she disappeared guess where they think she would have disappeared from from the
00:13:03
school because they would have found her bike at the school guess what that would
00:13:07
have pointed to a whole different pool of suspects that our offender may not be in he may not be in that pool of
00:13:14
suspects right so it takes him even further away from being detected yeah so so now I I
00:13:22
offered this up to James when I spoke to him because because if he abducted her he would
00:13:28
either have to abduct her and if and if there was any kind of commotion now he's gonna have to deal
00:13:34
with her plus a bike possibly her bike or at the very least her bike is found at the plaza exactly and they know she
00:13:42
disappeared from there yeah so then I offered this up here's Here's my thought here
00:13:47
Amy was a very smart girl and I don't know that she would agree to leave her bike and meet somebody without
00:13:56
believing she but she believed this guy but here's what I wonder he he's using the ruse that he works with her mother
00:14:05
already yeah Amy's mother worked hours every day after Amy was already out of school
00:14:12
here's maybe this is how the ruse goes down can you meet me at the shopping plaza we're gonna pick out something for
00:14:20
your mother leave your bike at the school because I'm going to take you to your mom's work with me after we get the gift
00:14:30
and not only can you be a part of helping to pick out the gift for your mother you can be there when it's
00:14:36
presented to her and your mother's going to drive you home from there or drive you back to
00:14:41
your bike right so I think that that's an easy way to get her convince her to leave that bike
00:14:50
at the school you can be a part of presenting this gift to your mother and guess what she's going to feel even more
00:14:58
safe now because not only are you doing something nice for her family but you're
00:15:03
also saying I'm going to deliver you to your mother yeah well I'm going to do the thing that you
00:15:09
normally hate that I do but it is it also possible that he just said meet me here and for whatever reason she
00:15:17
didn't take her bike well anything's possible anything's possible that's what you always hate you okay no no no of
00:15:23
course no you would be foolish to throw things out unless you have evidence to prove that you should throw those things
00:15:28
do we have any proof okay so she went home that day and then she left no that should that didn't happen
00:15:39
she went from the school to the plaza she was seen walking to the plaza and I think she even had a conversation with
00:15:47
somebody along the way in passing right okay so and she was seen she was physically seen by more than one student
00:15:54
at the plaza that day and to the point where the reason why we have the composite drawing of who they think took
00:16:00
her right is because somebody saw her speaking with a man that at the time the kid believed to be Amy's father
00:16:10
yeah so I just wonder if the plaza was close enough to the school where she was just like man I just won't take my bike
00:16:18
just be easier this way it's a it is a possibility it's close and maybe didn't have a chain for example and just
00:16:26
thought well I'll just leave it here well here was my thought and that's what I wanted that's why I posed the question
00:16:31
to James was because he would have seen the plaza many years before I did I wondered if if she just thought there
00:16:38
was nowhere to tie up her bike you know if there's nowhere to chain up my bike there then I should leave it at
00:16:44
the school right yeah and if that's the case then that's the case but then you also have this
00:16:52
situation where he may have asked her to and gave her good reason to leave the bike oh
00:16:58
because because if there would have been somewhere to chain up the bike wouldn't you think it's one less stop on
00:17:05
the way home that you could just go straight from the plaza to your house that's why I kind of wondered that I
00:17:11
wonder if he said She's Gotta she your mother got a promotion there's going to be a
00:17:16
celebration you know somebody's get uh so-and-so's getting a cake you and I are in charge of getting the gift
00:17:21
everybody's gonna say something nice clap and you'll be there and we'll we'll give her the gift together yeah or maybe
00:17:28
we're gonna go here then we're gonna go somewhere else or whatever right I know there could be a multitude of reasons
00:17:34
according to the the people at the plaza at the time there was no disturbance there wasn't
00:17:41
like they heard a kid screaming or an argument or anything like that so if that in fact is the case then one has
00:17:49
to believe that she willingly got into this vehicle now that also just makes me feel like
00:17:59
what if she shows up and she's like oh I know this dude but not like not like family friend but
00:18:07
like enough where she's like oh yeah I know that guy and she felt safe going with him that
00:18:14
that's a possibility that but I also wondered keep in mind I I think Amy was pretty pretty smart
00:18:22
and I almost think that that might have been off-putting to her for her to be of the belief that she does not know who
00:18:30
this guy is and then show up and she recognizes him I to me I just think back when I was 10
00:18:37
if I was going to meet somebody that I didn't know and all of a sudden I show up and I'm like well why didn't you just
00:18:43
say that you're Jim because I know you Jim right but but maybe she doesn't know Jim
00:18:50
right she doesn't know GM if Jim called and said hey Amy this is Jim should be like
00:18:59
well she wouldn't say this but she you know 10 year old kid I don't know who Jim is I work with your mom right
00:19:07
I don't know you it's just like you know my dad worked with a bunch of people that I don't fully know their name but
00:19:13
if but if if I was hanging out with my dad at work and they're like it's me Doug I would have been like oh yeah I
00:19:20
know who you are but like if he would have called the house I probably would have been like
00:19:24
I'm not really for sure who you are so under that scenario then if if I'm right believing that it would be
00:19:33
off-putting to her under that scenario he would have then told her on the phone no you do know me and and then when she
00:19:41
shows up she recognizes it right that's what I'm saying it's like maybe I'm not saying that she
00:19:47
I'm not saying that before she saw him at the at the plaza could she Point him out in a line up and say what his name
00:19:55
was I'm not saying that's how much she knew him I'm saying it's possible that she just recognized him enough
00:20:02
where she was just like oh this person because they're I'm sure look and this is going to sound bad but you
00:20:11
keep saying Amy's smart which I understand but this is a smart person that got tricked into doing something pretty
00:20:19
dumb right to go to this place where you don't know anybody and you're again you're 10 years old so you're a little
00:20:27
green is what I'm saying and so I think that when she showed up I'm sure that when she showed up
00:20:34
she is probably on somewhat of alert you see what I'm saying and I think that she saw this individual
00:20:44
and just was like oh yeah I know this person you know because like for example if
00:20:52
somebody called my house when I was fifth grade and said hey I'm coming over to pick up something that your father
00:20:59
left for me this is so and so from his work right ah I don't know I couldn't tell you the
00:21:08
people that my father worked with half the people's names and they showed up and I was like oh
00:21:13
yeah that's Larry I couldn't tell you Larry's name before he showed up you know I mean but once I
00:21:22
saw him and once he said his name was Larry on the phone I'm like yeah that's Larry
00:21:28
I'm and I'm not saying that this guy said his name on the phone because I I think he didn't
00:21:33
right it's generally believed that he did not give her a name right because I think because she never says his name to
00:21:39
anybody else right and I think if he and I think he knows that if he would have said his name or even something close to
00:21:46
his name that that that would have been enough of a mistake for people to catch him if he knew the family but all I'm
00:21:52
saying is there's something happen whether it's her walking up right away and looking at this individuals and
00:21:59
saying I know this guy from somewhere and now I'm at ease that's what I'm saying a fifth grader is
00:22:07
going to be at ease once they recognize that person no no no I or was the or was
00:22:12
there um and and maybe that's something to get down to or was there something that happened that put the uh Amy's mind
00:22:21
at ease see what I'm saying I agree with what you're saying but what I what I actually think may have happened was
00:22:27
I think she was already at ease I think she already believed the ruse and that's
00:22:32
the only reason why she went to the plaza to begin with and what I mean by that is like okay so
00:22:38
there's a suspect that that I like a lot but the problem is he he for him to have
00:22:45
been guilty it gets a little sketchy with his involvement okay so there's a guy named Martin Sabo so Martin Sabo was
00:22:54
one of Amy's very good friends the father of of one of her very good friends the problem with Sabo is can you imagine
00:23:04
if you're you're having a conversation with somebody on the phone that tells you that they work with your father they
00:23:10
don't give you their name they ask you to meet them somewhere at a plaza and then you get there and it's somebody
00:23:15
that's directly in your life your friend's dad right somebody that you've seen a hundred times somebody
00:23:22
that you know by name you see what I mean that's what I mean is it but you might not know their name
00:23:28
but you know them you'd recognize them no no this specific person she knew his name okay this Martin's I'm just using
00:23:36
him as an example right right what I'm what I'm saying is you know a lot of the times these cases are
00:23:43
committed by somebody that's very close to either the victim or the family where I have an issue with that is if
00:23:51
she if she knew the person before meeting the person she would have said the person by name but she didn't
00:23:58
giving the indicator that he probably didn't give his name and she didn't recognize his voice on the phone
00:24:05
what I'm getting at is I think she would she was already at ease when she showed
00:24:10
up there and that's the only reason why she went there to begin with I think it would have been very off-putting for her
00:24:15
to get there under the guise that I don't know this person and I I don't recognize their voice this person didn't
00:24:22
offer up their name or how they knew me and then I get there and it's somebody that I directly know yeah
00:24:30
I I get your thought process and and I respect your thought process but I I'm I think if she got there
00:24:45
that anybody that she somewhat knew right even if it's just that's my friend's dad
00:24:50
that's enough to keep her at ease I don't think it'd be that off-putting because
00:24:57
one it's a fifth grader you know what I mean like that's I just I don't know I think I think the way
00:25:07
you're thinking is more a thought of like a late middle school or maybe even a high
00:25:15
school kid but I think like just that point of your life if you showed up and you just
00:25:21
knew the person or recognized the person that would be enough to keep you at ease
00:25:26
that's what I'm saying I get that your your ideas that she shows up she doesn't think she knows him
00:25:33
no but I'm actually going under the assumption that in this in this Theory this this is just an angle that I'm
00:25:42
working I try to look at these at different angles and go what if this is a is a possibility right under this
00:25:48
Theory it's probably presented to her on the phone you don't know me I work with
00:25:53
your mother right right but I again you you walk there you it's probably a long way back to your
00:26:07
I mean I remember having to walk home from school a couple times no no no but what I'm saying is
00:26:14
with it with using somebody that's close to the family or close to Amy you don't think that you would find it
00:26:23
incredibly off-putting that the person tells you on the phone that you don't know me I work with your mother and then
00:26:28
you get there and it's clearly somebody that you know yeah but what I'm saying is if somebody
00:26:35
that you clearly know that they could say that the first the whole first part could be a complete ruse
00:26:47
and then they just go hey Amy what are you doing here they're like well I'm supposed to meet somebody to
00:26:54
get a you know gift from my mom oh really well I can wait with you okay that'd be nice
00:27:05
you know guy never this guy you don't know never shows up and then you're like hey well I'll just
00:27:12
take you home now you're in my car now we're gone well you bring up an interesting thing there because one
00:27:21
investigator regarding this case said and this is this is this is a terrifying thought
00:27:31
he said look there's a very small chance that this is what went down but maybe this can explain why we've
00:27:39
never solved this case and he said what if it's just pure coincidence that there's some creep
00:27:48
calling girls using this ruse of trying to get them to meet him somewhere she agrees to do it she shows up at the
00:27:59
shopping plaza and never encounters that man and it's just another random stranger
00:28:05
like you said that happens to come across her that day she mentions that she's supposed to meet
00:28:13
somebody and then he pretends to be that person and she gets into his vehicle willingly
00:28:20
and we've never been able to solve it because how can you make that connection how can
00:28:26
you make that that weird leap and then she goes missing it's widely reported this was a very
00:28:35
famous case at the time when she went missing and this creep that was calling girls in the area goes holy [ __ ]
00:28:44
I better get out of here or the calls were some kind of prank you know yeah from from whatever student
00:28:52
the only thing that I offer up to to combat that and those thoughts one that coincidence would be that's a huge
00:29:01
coincidence that would be a very rare thing and we're not talking about the one thing that I think is a
00:29:06
misconception in this case when we say shopping plaza on a Friday afternoon it sounds like there's hundreds and
00:29:13
hundreds of people there there were not there were there were very few cars in the parking lot there was
00:29:19
a dozen a couple dozen once you once you take away the employees of that place there was not a lot of people there that
00:29:25
day and then on top of that these girls that that were getting calls now as far as we know Amy was the only
00:29:35
one that was called in Bay Village as far as we know but now there were girls in surrounding areas that were
00:29:42
called as well if all these calls are connected and I believe that they are this guy had a
00:29:49
type he wasn't just randomly calling people out of the phone book he he had a type he had seen these girls
00:29:57
somewhere decided he was attracted to him and somehow he got their phone number and started making these phone
00:30:03
calls it's just so strange because there's not another case that you can connect to
00:30:10
Amy's to say we think this one is connected right right so that means a couple of
00:30:17
things either this was a single offense this was a single murder committed by this
00:30:23
person that that he abducted her things didn't go the way he thought they would and it the result was murder
00:30:31
right we kind of talked about that before because and he's never done it again or the individual completely left
00:30:37
the area yeah but but we know that she was raped there's some argument on both sides of
00:30:49
that fence again this this goes to the situation similar to the DNA situation like Renner said they've always been
00:30:56
very cagey about whether they have DNA or not now they've when I say they law enforcement
00:31:02
I don't have in my recollection any direct statement or quote from anyone investigating her case that said hands
00:31:12
down she was raped because because to me that changes though well your motive completely it
00:31:21
can still be sexual without the actual rape and the the reason why I believe there was a sexual aspect to this and
00:31:28
the reason why law enforcement believes it as well is it was it's believed that she she was
00:31:35
naked at the time of her murder right and the reason being is that she was found clothed
00:31:42
but when she was they believed she was dressed after the murder and the evidence of that is that the the
00:31:50
underwear that she was found wearing it was hers but it was inside out they believed that was a mistake that
00:31:57
the killer had made when he when he redressed her before dumping the body or didn't care
00:32:03
right right right right right just but like you said if there's some evidence of
00:32:13
I mean if she's murdered being naked then to me yeah like you said that suggests some kind of
00:32:20
sexual motivation and well here's the worst part of it and this is why you know like I I we got
00:32:28
into this I got into this case a couple weeks ago and I told you last week when we talked about it a little bit I said
00:32:33
look man I I had a [ __ ] breakdown last Friday night and you're like what are you talking about I'm like I I went
00:32:40
out I got [ __ ] hammered I've been I've been no but I I drank I drank out of stress I hadn't drank for four or
00:32:47
five days I was looking into Amy's case for every extra second that I had of every day and I just grew more and more
00:32:55
angry because we talked about Billy strewnack here the prob the thing that fear infuriates me about this case is
00:33:02
one the victim in her age and what I can only imagine was done to her but two there's like a bazillion people that
00:33:09
look like good suspects to the point where you're like why in the hell has this thing not been solved and to the
00:33:15
point where Billy strunek is just one of another one of these weird avenues that
00:33:20
you have to go down when you talk about this case I told you I said I had a [ __ ]
00:33:25
breakdown on Friday night about one or two in the morning I guess by that time it's Saturday morning but right but you
00:33:30
shouldn't stress drink this I'm sick worst time to drink I'm sitting in I'm sitting in the damn near dark in my
00:33:37
family room staring at a blank TV and I'm sitting there telling myself I'm calling the captain tomorrow and we're
00:33:44
and I've decided and I'm firing and no I was like I'm calling him tomorrow and I'm gonna let him know that I have to
00:33:51
for me talk about this case until there's nothing left to talk about anymore that's the only way I can get
00:33:57
out of this and I'm going to have to ask permission and and get his Blessing that
00:34:03
we can do this and then of course a few days later I realized you know I can't hijack the show and and do that but
00:34:09
we'll do whatever you want really but this is one of those cases it's never ending man it's never ending there's
00:34:16
there's there's a hundred thousand things to talk about in this case it's a weird situation where where
00:34:26
a man a grown man set on sexually assaulting a child decided that he was going to this is the terrifying thing he
00:34:37
basically walked into her home and convinced her to go with him via the phone right right right the the the the the
00:34:47
the most evil man you can think of use the telephone to walk into her home and get her to take his hand and leave
00:34:57
with him yeah but are they convinced that it's a man like a grown man like 20s 30s 40s I mean I know that well a
00:35:10
man was seen with her right before she wasn't seen again and the reason why I think they were
00:35:16
those eyewitnesses just because I'm not clear on that they were they were children that she went to school with
00:35:21
they were they were children that could identify Amy but not identify the man that was seen with him
00:35:27
but this individual could have been late high school early college and kids would have probably called him a man
00:35:34
well true but I think the reason why they've put that age on this person is there's a few psychological factors
00:35:42
involved that we won't get into but a lot of people said that Amy was with her father or thought they later after she
00:35:50
was gone more than one child said I just assumed she was talking to her father and what I think that means and why I
00:35:59
think they were able to put an age to that description of the man is that when other kids are saying I just
00:36:07
assumed it was his father her father they're saying that based off of how old he looks in comparison to Amy right
00:36:14
their fathers these are all kids about her same age their fathers would have been about the same age as Amy's father
00:36:20
so 28 too well that's so 50. well when we say I said late 20s early 30s when we were talking about Billy strewnack and
00:36:31
when we were talking about the the criminal profile put together by the FBI agents
00:36:36
I don't think that they based that off of eyewitness statements because when you look at the composite
00:36:44
drawing the first ones that started to come out they have a later age that they put on those that I think says like 35
00:36:51
to 45. right which would have roughly been uh you know would have been in the realm of of her parents ages yeah makes
00:37:00
a lot of sense the individual would have been about 25 when they had Amy so sister
00:37:12
um I got the coughs it's just um I don't know it's one of those cases where I think I got a
00:37:23
it's just some swallowed a bug um I did get an email about some guy I have no clue about anything because we just
00:37:32
get so many random emails and try to reply to as many as you can um I do get to them all eventually
00:37:40
I think I'm like behind like a 120 emails right now but um there was some email about a guy
00:37:46
working on a Amy podcast exclusive I'd love to do one I just don't know well I hope they do a good job because
00:37:55
I'll be pissed if they if somebody covers it and they don't do it's like it's like what you said with the mara
00:38:01
Murray case when you're like sweet oxygen is going to do a documentary on it oh wait I hope they do a good job
00:38:07
because there are cases that you get close to and you hold them in high regard yeah and it's harder for you to admit
00:38:14
that they did a good job yum you know what I mean well not no no no no no no no no no you hold them to a
00:38:21
higher standard going into it right that's what I mean but it's it's harder for them to get at that a boy right
00:38:28
because they have to really earn it they have to earn it and that's that's why I
00:38:31
think that documentary was so great The Disappearance of Mara Murray but also we
00:38:36
kind of talked about that I mean I was I was a little I mean I I want to say pissed off would be the right word
00:38:42
because we met Bob Ruff and um crime con last year and super cool guy yeah it's kind of like a mix between me
00:38:53
and you like if you put us smash this together probably drinks as much as you he he has
00:39:00
the investigative side of you um he has more of a captain build though with a beard he reminds me of there's a
00:39:08
sports guy that he reminds me of and I can't think of his name right now Mike Tyson no no no not an app not an athlete
00:39:15
sorry Bob not an athlete but um uh no a guy that has like a talk show Sports Talk Show Dan Le batard oh yeah
00:39:24
yeah he kind of reminds me not not 100 but it's probably just the dark beard you know but they kind of talk similar
00:39:31
yeah but it's like when when I found out that you know this season he's gonna cover West Memphis Three you're like
00:39:38
super excited but you're also like oh I hope he does a good job well I was a little pissed because we kind of talked
00:39:44
um and he would have no way of knowing this but we've talked like if we you know we did a three-parter on that we
00:39:51
always thought that we could dive into it more yeah it was the first wasn't it the first three-part show we had ever
00:39:57
done I think so and I think well we did OJ we did a three-part on OJ but I think we
00:40:04
really felt like with three episodes that are at least an hour long we're going to be able to
00:40:09
cover everything and there's so much we didn't man it was just the tip of the iceberg right and and we kind of talked
00:40:17
um roughly you know we got the show going and I think um I think we talked a little bit before
00:40:24
we started doing two parters every week um but not every week but but I think we talked a little bit about
00:40:32
oh we should do like a series like a long form because I've always been really interested I mean I've always
00:40:37
been uh super into any of the NPR stuff and and then NPR has been responsible pretty
00:40:44
much for serial and and s-town and all that stuff and and I think doing a eight part series or a 10-part series would be
00:40:51
really cool on the creative side of the making the podcast and he's doing it a little different
00:40:58
than that but I always thought you know we could do the definitive eight ten part series on West Memphis Three
00:41:07
um but but now I mean you've been listening to it I've only listened to a couple episodes
00:41:12
he might have he might be at like the 15 16 episode mark on it now I mean he's done a bunch of them I don't have a
00:41:20
direct number right in front of me but but his format is a little different than ours and it's a unique format I I
00:41:26
actually I really enjoy the format where he will release a show that's kind of packed with information on a specific
00:41:33
subject and then he'll do a follow-up episode that is kind of him answering questions that that listeners have come
00:41:41
up with based off of the information they've just received and it gives him a chance to clarify some things because
00:41:48
you know we report some things in and there are times where we'll talk a day or two later and we're like we got into
00:41:55
it about this thing but we only got about 80 percent through that one part yeah you know when and we you know so uh
00:42:04
recording this show is so frustrating to me because oh I think he's gonna do he I think with with the format he has
00:42:12
well I was trying to say 50 in format at the same time right I think with the format that he has that you're looking
00:42:20
at he's probably gonna do 50 episodes on The West Memphis Three case I I just wish I had the time to listen to it all
00:42:27
you know and it only takes about two hours a week well I'm teasing it well it doesn't I know how busy you are well
00:42:34
it's not that I don't have the time I have the time to devote to listen to it the problem is is I won't because
00:42:44
I think it's important to dive into the case whatever case we're covering that week and and I really try to just focus
00:42:51
on that and if I'm going to watch something or if I'm going to listen to another show about a case it's going to
00:42:56
be about that case right and so like you know I have uh you know I used to probably Listen to I bet 10 to 15
00:43:06
hours a week of podcast and I'm probably on average now listen to two to three just because
00:43:15
you know my job um you know even outside of the podcast all my job is audio so I can't listen
00:43:22
you know I used to work at a bank and so I'd be plugging in numbers and I could listen to a podcast when I plugged in
00:43:27
numbers um and I'm really bad I can't listen to a podcast and reply to emails right because what will happen is I'll
00:43:36
have to turn off my brain of listening to reply to the email and then when I go back to listing I'm going I don't even
00:43:42
know what the hell they're talking about anymore but so I probably listen to about two to three hours of podcast a
00:43:47
week now two to four and I listen to my um This American Life every Sunday or Monday night and I listen to Chris Delia
00:44:00
congratulations and that's pretty much all you know well the car is a good place for me to listen to podcasts yeah
00:44:05
I've kind of I listened to very little radio anymore and I've kind of replaced that all with podcasts when I'm driving
00:44:13
right the only issue with that especially when it comes to True Crime for me is that
00:44:19
um eventually my driving trip ends and they might not be done talking about the case
00:44:23
yet all right you know so so sometimes I don't make it all the way through episodes
00:44:30
[Music] [Applause]