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[music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who is wondering, "Why did you fail to clean
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off the lap pull-down machine?" Here is the Captain. [music] It's cuz you're a dirty, dirty bastard. It's good to be
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seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling [music] a friend.
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On this day in the garage, we are still sipping on this wonderful hazy [music] double IPA called Saturday in the park
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by North Park Beer Company and they got together with their friends at Microphone from Chicago to create a beer
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to fully embody the feeling of summer. It ain't summer here in the garage, I got to tell you friends, but this one is
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brewed with an assortment of Citra varieties. It's triple dry hopped but still juicy and a double at that. Garage
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grade four and a quarter bottle caps at a five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good garage friends. First
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up, a cheers to Karen in De Pere, Missouri. And a big we like to jib goes out to Barbara Armstrong from
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Flintstone, Georgia. Next, a double cheers to Tom and Corey Gazinski in Dyer, Indiana. And
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a big tall cans in the air to Johnny Neckbones in Louisville, Kentucky. And last but certainly not least, we have a
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double-fisted cheers going out to Lauren and Dylan in Maumelle, Arkansas. Everybody we just mentioned, they
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contributed to the beer fund for the beer run and the garage [music] fridge thanks you. Yeah, b w r u n beer
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run. >> [music] >> Make sure you check us out on YouTube. Make sure you subscribe to the [music]
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podcast and Colonel, that's enough of the BS'ing us. All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a
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beer. Let's talk some true crime. When we left off yesterday, we were going through some of the press releases
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by the Tinley Park Police Department coming out regarding the homicides that took place at the Lane Bryant store.
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Five women were killed, one survived. We had good information by the survivor giving a good description of the
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assailant, of the killer who as far as we know, Captain, walked out the front door on that Saturday morning
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in 2008 and we don't know who he is, we don't know where he went. And police are
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relying on you, all of you and us, the public, for information about this man. The
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description we get is pretty on point here and decisive about who this guy is and what he looked like at least at the
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time of the murders. And to me, it's a bit surprising and shocking that nobody came
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forward to say, "I know who this man is." Now, I say that, but there's been thousands
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of tips over the years. So, I'm sure somebody called in saying, "I I think I know who
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this guy is." And police constantly reminding us in the days after the murders, when giving the description of the
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killer, that he may have and very likely has changed his appearance since fleeing
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the scene, but that doesn't change the fact that this man looked this way prior to these murders. It's a very unique
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hairstyle down to the the single braid hanging down the right cheek of the man with
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four The report is four light green beads in this braid. >> Yeah, one of my issues with this
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hairstyle, not only should his friends and family members and even co-workers recognize this hair,
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but this is also possibly a hairstyle that he didn't do himself, that somebody helped him do.
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And so, obviously, that individual would definitely know who this person was. That's my thought
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exactly, Captain. I know that we've been at this for 10 years together sitting in
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the garage, the True Crime Garage, and talking about these cases for 10 years, but I don't think I don't think for a
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second that you need the experience of being in here for 10 years to think that the likelihood that this guy woke up
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that day, did his hair in this style for the very first time, and then walked into the Lane Bryant store.
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That That doesn't even seem like a viable option. >> Yeah, but if there was somebody else
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involved in this crime and maybe they're the ones that did this hairstyle for him,
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obviously, they would have a reason to not come forward. >> Yes, eventually, we will get a released
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composite image. It It's first a sketch and then it will morph its way over a period of time into a 3D image of the
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killer. I got to tell you, as long as we've been doing this, the 3D image that we get, it's probably the most haunting
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of composites that we've viewed over the years. Because Because of it being 3D, it is so lifelike. It's It's not like
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looking at a composite sketch. It almost looks like we are looking at a picture,
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a snapshot picture of the killer himself. >> Yeah, and just to address what I feel is the elephant in the room,
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is this case has been covered by so many individuals and one of the things that we spent a
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little bit of time on in our initial coverage, our initial deep dive into this case was was this
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perpetrator male or female? Because there was some speculation, I believe, that this possibly could have been a
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female. With all the time that has passed, with the DNA evidence, even if it's not a full profile, law enforcement
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should be at least able to tell us the sex of the individual. And everything that has come out from law
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enforcement and the eyewitness and basically everybody else is that this individual is a male and not female. I
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feel like the thought of Look, and we always say, "Stay water," right? Don't close a whole
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bunch of doors and and come up with a theory and push everything else aside. So, I won't fault anybody. There was a
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lot of online chatter about the potential that this killer was could be a a woman, you know? Instead of
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Jack the Ripper, we got Jill the Ripper. I think all of that came from the internet, from chat rooms, from people
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trying to openly discuss this case and keep the case, the story, alive so we can find this perpetrator, but
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all indicators from the people that are working the case and the hardcore information that has come out over the
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years is everyone telling us that the perpetrator, the killer, is male. Now, we did go through a pretty thorough
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description of the suspect in episode one. We've also went over that description in our previous coverage,
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which took place back in 2018. And we did have a lot of those talks and a bit of a debate of was the killer man
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or woman back in our previous coverage in 2018 as well. But as we sit here today, Captain, what else
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do we know about this suspect? Going over some of my additional notes, I just want to add
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on a little addendum to something I said in episode one. We talked about the height of the killer. The initial
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reports coming out saying 5'8" to 5'10" inches tall. Later, we have reports of saying up to 6 foot tall. And I have now
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seen on two occasions and have this in my note that some have listed him between 6 foot and 6 foot 2 inches tall.
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So, that's all to say, don't disregard somebody just because they look like the guy, but he might be 1 inch too tall or
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1 inch too short. That >> Right. That should not be part of the equation here. We do know that the
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suspect used a Smith & Wesson Glock .40 caliber. And this is based off of shell casings found at the scene as well as
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bullets that were recovered from the victims. The overwhelming majority of the reports
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out there is that the gunman took a few hundred dollars. And I've seen this little as $200 in
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change. I've also seen it reported upward of more than $300. I don't think that they 100% know how
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much the killer took. Part of that just simply based off of the idea that police
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have not shied away from being open saying that he was he didn't just rob the store. He was
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robbing the customers as well and may have even robbed the two employees that were there that morning. We discussed
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that he was wearing a dark-colored waist-length jacket. Reports are that he had a roll of duct tape in one of his
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pockets of this jacket and that he was wearing black jeans or jeans with embroidery on the back pockets similar
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to a cursive G. And in our previous coverage in 2018, we went through a lot of this stuff stuff a lot deeper as to
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what the man was wearing or what is suspected that he was wearing. Now, to say the duct tape in one of his pockets
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is quite interesting because I've seen it reported many different ways. I think that it's
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it's difficult to say 100%. I'm with you. You had said yesterday that uh most of the items used in this in the
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commission of these crimes were items that were found or believed to have been into the store prior to his arrival. We
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know that he brought the gun with him obviously. The duct tape's a little bit of a debate, but couldn't you see this
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playing out as such where he walks into this store and we know that he did not conceal his identity in the form of a
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mask or attempt to hide his face. Right. >> But you could see him walking into the
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store with this jacket on with a gun in one pocket and duct tape in the other. Now,
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to say he didn't disguise himself, who knows? Maybe maybe he somebody did his hair that way the night prior or the
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morning of and he's never before or after wore his hair that way. It That could be a possibility. And it's also
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reported that he came in with some type type of covering on his head and that he
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may have or likely was wearing a ball cap as well. Now, to have the very down to the point description of his
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hairstyle would indicate to me at some point he took those those head coverings off willingly or or they fell off at
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some point during the commission of these crimes. There was a criminal profile that was
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created by two FBI profilers. This is Greg McCrary and last agent Van Zandt. And this was released to the Chicago
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Sun-Times. This was not part of our coverage in 2018 and we we have a a bunch of stuff that we got to in part
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one and and more that we'll get to in this episode that was not part of that coverage as well. But these two
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profilers sat down together, went through all of the information and evidence and came up with the following
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profile that that they pieced together Yes. stating I always like the profiles. I And I Well, and I enjoy when we have
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more than one profiler in the room to bang one of these things out. And they say they believe that the killer had
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very likely been incarcerated before. And they say that his willingness to indiscriminately murder several women
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indicated that he had vowed to never go back to prison. So, they're speculating that the killer likely
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believed himself to have been mistreated by society Right. >> he had likely taken the wrong lessons
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from his prior incarceration. The two even theorized that the killer might have known one of the victims or
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had personally targeted them believing that they could identify him. This fear of being identified, they
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believed, caused the gunman to pull the trigger on all six women. Yeah, that's something that I've contemplated a lot
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in this case. is what was the motivation if they're being truthful with what they believe this individual
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got out of this. This is a vicious execution of multiple people for a few hundred bucks. I have a very
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hard time and I'm not in the business of disagreeing with very experienced profilers and these two in particular I
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have a lot of respect for. But I think that they're throwing a few extra things out there, that they're leaving some
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doors open uh in that because they're relying so heavily on the general public for
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information about this killer. I don't believe for a second that he targeted anybody there.
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And let me let me break it down for you like this. We have two employees. One was killed, one survived.
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We have four customers. So, logic tells you that the only two people that this person or others
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may have a high percentage chance of being in that store or absolutely being in that
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store that day would be the two employees. The four customers are seemingly random.
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And I say that because as the story goes and as the narrative always has been, he
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was in the store prior to any of the customers arriving at that store. He didn't follow a customer into the store.
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He engaged the two employees in conversation and the customers started arriving.
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So, that would tell me that if a person was targeted, it had to be one of those employees.
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Well, the surviving employee doesn't tell us who this man's name is. And furthermore, if the person targeted
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was an employee, think about this scenario that played out. He had four women, those two employees,
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part of those four women, in the back of the store bound, face down on the floor. If he was
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sent there to kill a target, he would have killed all four women and left then. But that didn't happen.
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Two more customers came in and he took them hostage as well and placed them back in the back of the store. So, I I
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would put the chances of him I'm not saying he didn't know any of these women by happenstance. What I'm saying is
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I put him targeting these women very close to one of these women very close to zero.
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The other thing that they say that's interesting that's in this profile that we should point out is that
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maybe they say, well, maybe he he was recognized or one of the victims recognized him. But they very astutely
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follow that up in their profile by saying or he simply may have felt that he was
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recognized. I think there's too much else going on here, captain. That could be a
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possibility, but I mean, you got a 911 call, you got witness saying the police siren was
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heard before the shots were fired. I if there was a straw that broke the camel's
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back, if there if he was teetering on the edge and something put pushed him over, it's either the 911 call or the
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sirens police sirens going off or both. Right, which I think would lend towards their profile of this individual had a
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criminal history, was incarcerated at some point, decided that never going to go back again,
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not alive at least. The two profilers also believe that this mass killer not only has been likely incarcerated
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before the killings, would do anything to avoid going back to prison. And of course, they remind us that he is
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very still very dangerous. And this is a even more scary part. And maybe this is why the right person
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has not come forward. They state in their profile, they believe that the killer feels that anyone that is in a
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position to help police catch him, that he will kill again, even if it's somebody very close to him, a relative,
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a loved one, a friend, that he would do anything not to return to prison. And we talked a lot about some of the
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theories that have been bandied about over the years. I think that probably I you know, I've
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gone down many roads with this mentally on mic and off mic. And I'm I'm not going to say that I'm
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locked in hardcore on any one theory. I think that there's too many options here.
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And and a lot of them seem likely just as much as as the next one. I think that there's something to the idea that
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he's robbing the customers as well. That he's not just there to rob the business. Like that seems like
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something that I don't think that he decided to do that on the fly. I think that he went in there with the
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intention of I'm taking whatever I want in that store including whatever these people have on them that I want.
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>> enters the store pretty quickly after opening, he has a ruse. Right? Hey, I got this delivery.
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Okay, well, that's made up. He has a gun at that point. He has possibly duct tape at that point.
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He could have easily shut the front door, locked the front door, made sure all the
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doors were locked, but he chose not to do that. Yeah, I think that there may have been enough time to give him
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that option. And if so, then you're right. That's a choice that he made and and Look, it's very Pulp Fiction.
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Right? Remember when they're robbing the diner? And I don't know if they're boyfriend
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and girlfriend or husband and wife, but the the the male robber says to the female robber, "Hey, remember when you
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decided to rob the customers at our as well at our last robbery at our last hold up? That was a really good idea. We
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got more money from them than we did from the business." So, it seems to me like this was
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something that why he's robbing, that's anyone's guess. There's been a lot of talk that maybe the this
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individual was a drug addict that that was desperate for money and would have done anything
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to get a few hundred dollars to to make a fix. I Look, he's he's losing it. We we we we
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agree on that. He's losing control of the situation. He He's becoming increasingly agitated. Maybe that means
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that he's a bit strung out. I think he To me, I think he's a little too controlled
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to suggest that he's strung out to the point that he would be so desperate to kill for a few
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hundred bucks, kill five people, six people. Remember, he he thought he was killing six people
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right there that day. And And I say that I think he's too controlled because we went through the background of our
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victims a little more briefly in this coverage than we did in our prior coverage. These were not dumb women.
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He convinced them he he was convincing enough to them that they didn't panic in the moment
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when he said, "Hey, I'm here for a delivery." They He has paperwork. They're talking and interacting with
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him. The manager calls another store thinking that there's some kind of mix-up. That the delivery guy is where
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he thinks he needs to be. He's convincing enough in that regard. These were smart
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women, smart educated women. This manager had been there for 2 years. So, he's convincing enough
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upon arrival and during those conversations. There's no giveaways to them in those
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moments that he is there to rob and or potentially harm or kill people. Yeah, I think the other thing, too, is
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everybody is affected by when your family or friends they're addicted, have some substance
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abuse problem. But most of those people don't go out of their way to be violent towards others.
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And so, this idea that he Well, he was just a crackhead that came up with this idea to
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rob a retail store and >> [clears throat] >> to execute six individuals so they can make sure
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they get high that day. I think that's kind of a And think about it, too. He's also
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described as well-groomed. Yeah. And cleanly dressed. I mean, it to me, that doesn't It's It's an
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interesting theory. I don't say I say don't close the door on that one, but it doesn't seem to ring so true.
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Seems a little less likely. I also think also his erratic behavior some people can point to Well, was there
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something mentally ill? Well, you have to be somewhat mentally ill to want to execute six innocent people.
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So, but I think you see him like you said, there's a sense of control. There's a ruse. There's a plan.
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Whether or not the SUV is a getaway vehicle, whether or not there's a good getaway
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vehicle or not, you still have to have the plan to get away on foot. And I think the timing of this, store
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opens at 10:00. Not all stores open right on time. Some Some stores open 5 minutes early.
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But the fact that he's entering the building basically when it opens makes me feel [music] like this person
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had a plan and they had their [ __ ] together in a criminal sense. All right, we are back.
00:25:12
Talk hands in the air. Word to your mother. Big ups. Big ups and cheers. Word to your mother.
00:25:20
Let's talk about the DNA, right? The DNA {question mark} we should say. DNA? DNA?
00:25:28
And it's been highly highly highly highly suspected by many many many that there
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is DNA and the police have the killer's DNA. Is it a clean sample? Difficult to say.
00:25:43
But where could that DNA have come from? Okay, so there's some obvious obvious places here where that could
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have come from. First and foremost, we've talked about it multiple times. We had one of the
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victims, it's believed that she fought back and that the rumor has always been that they collected her
00:26:05
fingernails because and the probably I mean, they would collect the fingernails of every victim. But hers in particular
00:26:14
had blood under them and it may have come from the suspect. So, there's there's one place.
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Another rumor has always been that that the killer dropped his ball cap. That the ball cap was recovered.
00:26:27
Well, maybe there was a hair with with the follicle still connected. Yeah. That's a location that
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they could have recovered some DNA. The other rumor that's always been talked about in this case is that the
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surviving victim took detectives, went to the scene with the detectives to show them where the killer had discarded of a
00:26:54
disposable coffee cup. That when he walked into the store, he's got fake delivery paperwork in one hand and a
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to-go coffee in the other hand. And that he was drinking from that and that he either sat it down on a counter top
00:27:09
somewhere or a table somewhere or threw it in a waste basket. Again, this seems like something
00:27:16
that would be easy once you have that cup. Where did this cup of coffee come from?
00:27:23
And a lot of gas stations have surveillance. You are going down the right road, my friend. Remind me to
00:27:30
circle back to that after we talk about this DNA. Another rumor, and this one was actually
00:27:35
dug up by True Crime Garage after our coverage in 2018. Look, it was no mistake that we were
00:27:43
covering it around the 10-year anniversary. We were hoping it would be back in the news cycle, people would be
00:27:50
talking about it again, and that that our coverage could further those conversations. And maybe they did. And
00:27:57
one conversation that we know took place based off of that was something that seems very likely and very credible. And
00:28:07
I cannot tell you the the persons It was more than one person. I could I can say that.
00:28:14
That had this conversation with the garage. These are persons in the state of Illinois is the most that I will say.
00:28:21
But that the the DNA may have come from something that the killer brought with him to the
00:28:28
scene. And I don't mean a coffee cup, disposable coffee cup, or his hat. That it came from the duct tape. Now, look,
00:28:37
duct tape picks up a lot of guck and hair and things if you leave it lying around in a dirty location.
00:28:44
So, that seems like a possibility. But what seems to me like the the most likelihood here can't happen is What do
00:28:51
you see people do time and time again when it comes to duct tape? Sometimes it's hard to tear or start the tear.
00:28:59
Right? You see time and time again somebody will pull off a little bit of it. And once they get the length that
00:29:05
they want, they use their teeth to cut and start the tear for them. And then if he did this saliva repeatedly. Yeah, if
00:29:15
he did this six times over. And some reports out there are that he not only bound the women's hands, but their their
00:29:23
feet as well. Some reports state that he ordered the women to tie each other up. But if he
00:29:29
did this once, twice, three times, or all six times, that's six chances that he left saliva
00:29:37
his DNA on that duct tape. Yeah, or like you said, if they bound the hands and feet, then 12 times. Even
00:29:45
better. We're doing some math in the garage. Now, I asked you to remind me to circle back to something and I've
00:29:52
completely forgotten what that item was. I got all wrapped up in the duct tape. Oh, the gas station coffee cup.
00:29:59
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, here's where we have to we have to
00:30:05
critique the police department. >> You, I think sometimes you have an issue with this. I don't have an issue with
00:30:10
this. I have no issue with critiquing We're almost out of what? No, I if I had an issue, I wouldn't do it. I'm I'm
00:30:18
about ready to do it right now. Get out of my way. I'm about to about to do it right now.
00:30:22
>> [laughter] >> I'm going to throw these [ __ ] under the bus. Just like I think that
00:30:28
they've not released enough information. You've I've said [clears throat] this a
00:30:31
million times in the garage. If you're asking the public for help, you know what I used to always say when
00:30:38
when I would have customers and and they're asking for something or or or want help with something, sometimes you
00:30:45
have to remind them, "Help me to help you." You're asking me of something, but you're not giving me enough information
00:30:52
to correct the situation or to to help you get to where you need to go. I want to help you. I just need a little more
00:30:59
information. You hit on something there, my friend. If this dude brought in a coffee
00:31:05
disposable coffee cup with him, there's indicators where that thing came from. Did it come from a hotel? Did it come
00:31:11
from a gas station? Was it a Starbucks? Was it a Dunkin' Donuts? >> Was it a Dunkin'?
00:31:18
>> Your this this stupid box store F U Lane Bryant didn't have surveillance cameras.
00:31:25
Maybe care about your employees and the customers for starters and their safety, but
00:31:31
maybe the place where he got that coffee from had surveillance footage that you could
00:31:37
have got to if it was a BP or someplace that that was just down the road. Right.
00:31:44
They had eight agencies there. They could have been in every gas station, every coffee shop within
00:31:49
within 40 minutes drive time of there, within an hour or as or as soon as they're made
00:31:56
aware of that an hour of being made aware of that coffee cup. Yeah, and if I'm law enforcement if if
00:32:02
I'm in charge of this investigation, I'm walking in and going, "Well, one, we have a survivor, but we have
00:32:11
we have five executed victims. I am calling anybody for help. FBI, CIA, I don't care. Anybody that can help
00:32:24
us. And I'm I'm pulling everybody into this case. I am calling everybody that's off work
00:32:33
and going, "Get it Get your ass to the police department cuz we're going to round up as much surveillance footage as
00:32:41
we can from this area." Now, the coffee cup, as we said, could just be a rumor. Could be Maybe there never was a coffee
00:32:48
cup. But one of the other rumors was that he left or dropped his hat at the scene.
00:32:53
Okay. Well, if that were to be true, don't just give me a description of that hat.
00:33:01
Take a photo of it and release it to the public. Yeah. Now again, just a rumor. We don't know if there was a hat that
00:33:08
was left at all or a hat involved at in at all. Okay? Another rumor was that the
00:33:16
fake delivery paperwork that he arrived with was also left at the scene. There should be some indicators of what that I
00:33:23
can't believe if if that was the case. Mhm. It It's not like he just walked in there with some rolled up notebook
00:33:30
paper. This would have been something that would have Now Now, look, he could have just pulled this out of any random
00:33:36
trash can, right? But it all But still, run down that lead. And I'm not saying that they
00:33:42
haven't, but what they haven't done is shown that to the public. Let's pretend for a moment that all
00:33:48
these rumors are true. If all these rumors are true and you're begging the public for help on five
00:33:55
homicides and a woman that had to uproot and change her entire life and her family's life came within inches of
00:34:01
dying, being murdered, Yeah. release a picture of the hat, release a picture of the coffee cup, release a
00:34:09
picture of the paperwork, and how about you get on the internet and download a an image of the gun that was used and
00:34:19
release all four of those images along with your computer 3D image of the suspect as well. You want information,
00:34:28
give us some information. You want tips, give us the tips. Just the tip. Just give us the tip. The One thing I will
00:34:36
agree Look, I agree with the profilers a lot on on their findings and their speculation about who this guy is and
00:34:44
where he came from and maybe even some of his motivations, even if they came about at the last minute. I I found just
00:34:52
a a quick search of if there's any real meaning to green beads, light green beads, a few
00:35:01
different websites that I found said that green beads are often a indicator of some type of growth or
00:35:12
rebirth. Mhm. Which would play along with the idea of like somebody bettering themselves at the you know, I'm out of
00:35:20
prison now. I'm I'm never going back. Uh so here, let me read this for you. A single braid in the hair often carries
00:35:28
deep cultural, spiritual, and personal meanings symbolizing unity, strength, and connection to ancestry, mind, body,
00:35:35
spirit balance, and even marital status depending on their traditions. So that's
00:35:40
is there any meaning behind a single braid in the hair? The as far as the green beads go, But
00:35:48
here's one thing though, too. If this guy was planning this out, which I believe he
00:35:53
was, maybe he didn't have a complete detailed plan of what was going to happen and maybe there was some
00:36:00
improvising going on, but you would know that by having this unique hair hairstyle even
00:36:07
though you're covering most of it up with a hat. But if somebody came in and I saw their side profile, I could tell
00:36:16
you if they had braids in their hair or not even though they're wearing a hat. And then obviously you have this
00:36:23
single braid in front of their right side of their face. So, it wouldn't matter to him or or maybe he's not that bright
00:36:34
to go, "Hey, this is a a way for them to identify me." So that again kind of goes back to my
00:36:42
thought of maybe the plan all along was I'm going to take whoever hostage. I will leave no witnesses, so it doesn't
00:36:50
matter if they see my face. Doesn't matter if they hear my voice. It doesn't matter
00:36:56
if they see my braids or these beads. And I think a lot of this gang activity is
00:37:04
it's way more complicated and way more thought out than I think a lot of people think. I
00:37:13
was watching a thing the other day on gangs that will identify the For example, though,
00:37:20
that gang will use like Chicago Bulls. So they'll have the colors of the Chicago Bulls and
00:37:29
a lot of the gang members will wear clothing items of the Chicago Bulls. So that's where I go to it. Is there
00:37:36
some kind of gang or criminal activity happening in that area and and are there colors
00:37:45
green? Cuz I I don't see somebody going, "Well, I'm braiding my hair, put green in there cuz of my rebirth, and by the
00:37:52
way, I'm going to go down to the local Lane Bryant store and execute a bunch of women." Oh, I agree. I mean,
00:38:00
the green could mean anything. It all could It also could mean nothing at all. I mean, it But it's a it's a choice that
00:38:06
somebody made. Either he made the choice for four light green beads to be at the end
00:38:13
of this braid or or the person that did his hair decided on that. Now, America's Most
00:38:20
Wanted covered the case multiple times. One of the things they say is the biggest clue, {question mark}
00:38:29
This could be the biggest clue to the killer's identification. Eyewitnesses told or an eyewitness, I
00:38:36
should say, told cops that she saw the killer had a braid over his right ear. The end of the braid had four light
00:38:43
green beads on the end. And back to something I was talking about prior, this was my findings. Light green beads
00:38:52
generally symbolize renewal, growth, healing, harmony, and luck, representing fresh starts, balance, and a connection
00:39:00
to nature, often linked to the heart chakra for love and compassion. But specifically shades like mint and jade
00:39:09
can add meanings like prosperity, peace, or transformation. They're popular in jewelry for personal growth and or
00:39:17
meditation. Back to those vehicles that we talked about, which I also think could be a
00:39:23
very very big clue as well. America's Most Wanted took surveillance video from the parking lot of the
00:39:30
shopping center where the killings happened to the leading expert on video enhancement.
00:39:38
This is Dr. David Hathaway of NASA. Dr. Hathaway and America's Most Wanted correspondent John Lieberman found two
00:39:48
mysterious vehicles on the tape. At 10:39 a.m. shortly before the 911 call is made from inside the store, a van or
00:39:58
SUV arrives in front of the store and parks head-on directly in front of the door. At 10:40 a.m. another car arrives
00:40:09
and parks nearby. What's more, at 10:45 a.m. that vehicle leaves and less than a
00:40:15
minute later the other vehicle departs. The vehicles leave right around the same
00:40:20
time police believe the killer would be leaving the area. Cops think the vehicles at the very least contain
00:40:28
witnesses to the crime and could even be linked to the killer. Yeah, I mean, I think this case is very difficult and I
00:40:36
don't think any detail too small or too big to examine and re-examine and see if there if there's a little bit
00:40:46
of smoke that maybe there's fire. I mean, look, maybe I'm a son of a [ __ ] I don't know, but
00:40:52
and maybe I've watched too many M. Night Shyamalan ding-dong movies. But again, if I'm investigating this
00:41:01
crime, I am vetting the crap out of the surviving employee. Because these actions of this guy coming in
00:41:12
right after the start uh of the day with this delivery and this seems to be something that
00:41:20
happens, I mean, it's common enough where they call another store to see if this individual just has the wrong
00:41:28
store. I I'm going to vet her as much as I can. And and and and it's not even just about
00:41:35
her being involved. It'd be more of what is her information of the other employees that weren't there that day?
00:41:44
How much did these other employees talk about the operations? We were not the only ones to have criticism for the
00:41:52
Tinley Park Police Department on this. It's gone on over the years and you had talked about getting everybody involved
00:42:00
and we do know that they had they got involved with the that one particular south
00:42:05
south area task force was helping them and assisting them in the investigation right from the jump. They had other
00:42:13
agencies that were called in responding to the area as well, which is helpful and the right thing to do. Part
00:42:22
of this criticism publicly though comes from the idea that the FBI was not asked to officially get involved
00:42:30
until September of 2008, which would be six to seven months later and they've taken some heat as to why did they wait
00:42:41
so long to get the FBI involved. And you had are hitting on something here that we've been thinking about a lot over the
00:42:50
last couple of days and weeks here [snorts] is that we have a note from a friend and
00:42:58
I'll read this note to our beautiful listeners. Eyeballs up. It reads, from 2005 to 2008,
00:43:07
I was employed by Charming Shops, the parent company of Lane Bryant and Fashion Bug. I served as a store manager
00:43:15
for Fashion Bug. Based on my first-hand knowledge of company procedures, I have long believed the Lane Bryant murders
00:43:25
may have involved someone with inside knowledge of store operations. When merchandise deliveries occurred,
00:43:34
the driver would enter the store through the front entrance holding delivery paperwork. That sounds identical to what
00:43:42
has been described to us that the killer did back in 2008. They go on to write, the
00:43:48
driver would notify store staff of the delivery and then return to the truck to move it around to the rear of the
00:43:55
building where the stockroom doors are located. The fact that the perpetrator entered
00:44:02
the store holding papers and claiming to have a delivery strongly suggests familiarity with these procedures.
00:44:10
Another common question is why the robbery occurred so early in the day when stores are assumed to have little
00:44:19
cash on hand. That makes sense because you would if you're just opening for the day and a
00:44:24
robbery takes place minutes into the business day, one would expect there to be very few if
00:44:32
if if not zero sales at that time. And our friend goes on to write, in reality, corporate policies required managers to
00:44:40
take deposits to the bank in the morning due to safety concerns about making night deposits. Because the murders
00:44:47
occurred so close to opening time, it is very possible that the previous day's deposit had not yet been taken to the
00:44:55
bank. In addition to the deposit, each cash register typically contained between $200
00:45:03
at opening and there was also a backup change order kept in the safe. It was not unusual for a store to have
00:45:13
several thousands to have several thousands of dollars on hand in the morning when the deposit, register
00:45:20
tills, and change funds were were considered together. I do not know whether the perpetrator was a former
00:45:27
delivery driver, a former employee, or someone assisted by an employee at the time. However, based on my experience
00:45:35
and understanding of the store operations, I believe law enforcement should give serious
00:45:40
consideration to suspects who had direct knowledge of or connections to the store. I'll expand
00:45:50
on some of this. Now, I don't have any knowledge of Lane Bryant. I don't have any knowledge of this Charming Shops
00:45:58
corporation, which was the parent company of of several different chains. In fact, I've never set foot in a Lane
00:46:08
Bryant store. Uh so so Well, you haven't lived, my friend. That's right. One day, Captain, I'll get there. It's
00:46:17
very nice to go into a retail store and know that you're not on surveillance. I'm going to go
00:46:24
flying through the front doors of the Lane Bryant shirtless on roller skates with with sparklers tied to the roller
00:46:32
skates >> Mhm. like Benson Boone and just just open up the open up the whole joint right there.
00:46:38
No, in all seriousness, so when our friend wrote to us saying that corporate policies required managers to
00:46:48
take deposits to the bank in the morning due to safety concerns about making night deposits. I'll echo that
00:46:54
statement. Again, I don't know of this corporation and how they do their work, but in the one retail setting that I
00:47:04
worked in, that was it was forbidden to do night deposits at the bank. In fact, it was explained to me by the general
00:47:14
manager and the regional manager, cuz one of my duties at some point became making the bank deposits,
00:47:21
was that they could only be conducted during the day because the company's insurance
00:47:28
only covered that money or harm done to the employee if the deposit was made during the like
00:47:38
there was all kinds of parameters that you had to follow Right. when making that deposit. One, and you may know this
00:47:46
from your days being a banker, but one of one of the rules was you had to park in the parking lot of
00:47:54
the bank. Now, that sound might sound silly, like a no-brainer, but the bank that we made our deposit at was in a
00:48:01
much larger parking lot and you had surrounding businesses. So, it was explained to me multiple
00:48:08
times, "Hey, if you pull into the parking lot and every spot is taken, don't park in a neighboring parking lot
00:48:15
and run over. You wait until a spot opens up, then park, and then make the deposit." And we
00:48:21
didn't make the deposit I was making was on a Sunday, so the bank wasn't open, so
00:48:26
I had to make the uh put it in the drop box. >> Yeah, it's called the night drop.
00:48:31
Exactly. But we were doing it during the day and as explained to me, the insurance only covered us during the
00:48:37
day, only covered us if we were in that parking lot. So, that makes a lot of sense to me. Now, I will say in this
00:48:44
particular case, we do know that a spokesperson for Lane Bryant came out very shortly after the
00:48:52
murders and explained that there would only have been a very small amount of cash on hand at the time of the murders
00:49:00
and the robbery because they had made their deposits prior to opening the store. Now, I think
00:49:07
some people took that to mean that the deposits were made at night. That may be. I don't know. I don't have any
00:49:14
reason to dis- credit the spokesperson, but I will say this, regardless of what time they
00:49:20
typically make the deposits, I trust our friend's statement more. One, that we know the person, and two, based off of
00:49:29
this speculation. If this [ __ ] goes down, of course you're going to say, "We keep very little money on it." You don't
00:49:36
want to become a target for somebody else. You don't want somebody seeing this in the news thinking, "Oh, this
00:49:41
person, yeah, they had to kill some people. I would never do that, but they probably got away with a whole bunch of
00:49:46
money." No, you want to get out in front of that. >> Well, it makes sense though if you only
00:49:49
have two employees showing up, you show up. [snorts] You double-check the deposit, you make
00:49:55
the deposit, then you come back and you open up the the store. Yep. Somebody might not know
00:50:00
all those details, so that's why this individual shows up right after opening. All they open the store at 10:00 as long
00:50:08
as I get there within minutes of them opening, there could be a deposit. And then my question would be, well, do we
00:50:16
know how much money was meant to be deposited that day? And what I was told is if you have a manager, it's normally
00:50:25
the manager and like the assistant manager, they count and double-check the deposit. You know, what one looking
00:50:31
after the other. Well, if uh one of the managers isn't there, then one of the associates will do it.
00:50:39
So, who was working that night? Did anybody tell any of their friends or family members
00:50:46
about how much money they were meant to deposit the next day? And like you said,
00:50:51
there was a sale. Was the sale starting that day or was the sale going on? Did they have a lot of traffic the last
00:50:57
couple days? Was it a higher amount made the day before than normally was made? And an
00:51:03
employee that may not regularly close or never closes the store or never opens the store may have no awareness of when
00:51:11
that deposit to the bank is actually delivered. Like when I worked at PacSun in the mall,
00:51:20
you just went in. And at some point you had like a a daily sales number that you quota that you
00:51:30
needed to try to hit. But I didn't know what the store's quota was cuz I didn't work there that long, but
00:51:37
if I would have worked there longer, I probably would have known. I remember working at a guitar store for
00:51:43
many years and I didn't even know that they had like a daily quota. And it wasn't like,
00:51:48
"Oh, we got to make this or we're going to close." It was just like based on what we normally sell, we we need to
00:51:53
make X amount of dollars. Obviously, on the weekend, that was a higher amount than on a Monday. If Tinley Park Police
00:52:02
Department has more information that can be shared, one, you should have done it a long time ago, but let's not
00:52:09
delay it any any further because everybody is saying the same thing. At the time, minutes after, they're saying
00:52:18
suspect is believed to be 29 years old. The description that they released to the public that following day is that
00:52:27
they believe the suspect is between 25 and 35 years old. That killer, if he is still alive, would still be a relatively
00:52:37
young man. Still young man. And it's not yet been 20 years on this case. Right. >> be talking about somebody who's
00:52:47
43 years old, 45 years old, 50 years old. I went back and I wanted to double-check something on the DNA part
00:52:57
of this. And I was very impressed with the state of Illinois. Look, I love my state and I
00:53:03
think that they've done a lot of great things, especially to deter crime and crack down on crime over the years. One
00:53:09
thing that we did was passing a law in 2010 and enacting that law in 2010 that if you commit a felony or if you're
00:53:16
locked up for a felony, we take a DNA sample. Yeah. And you are then in our CODIS system.
00:53:23
Well, my concern was that maybe Illinois didn't do this until 2010 like we did here in Ohio or after
00:53:32
and that's why, you know, cuz everybody says every regular Joe out there, the colonel, yours truly included, says
00:53:41
this guy has committed violent crimes prior, maybe after. Where is he? Why haven't we
00:53:48
found him? What's wrong with the DNA? Do they have DNA? I think they have DNA. Use the damn DNA. And what's impressive
00:53:55
with Illinois is that they had enacted that law back in 2002, back in 2002. So, this was something
00:54:03
that they were doing many years, six years roughly, prior to these murders. And so that puts the likelihood of him
00:54:13
being a violent felon in the state of Illinois at a much lower percentage. However, I did find within
00:54:22
that study that persons were saying that they are fully aware that that they believe approximately 2,000 inmates
00:54:34
were released and DNA was not connected or collected from those inmates before they were
00:54:42
released. And it simply came down to the law came into effect and they didn't have the manpower resources, the
00:54:51
collecting uh test to to collect those before those persons were released. Now, what what I find to be really
00:55:00
interesting about that is if the general public's idea is right that this guy was a violent offender and
00:55:07
the profilers were right that he had been locked up before, what if he's in that batch of 2,000?
00:55:12
That's not a big batch of people. So, the other part of that, Captain, that I was getting to is what you are
00:55:20
the door that you're knocking down right now is what if he's from another state? What if
00:55:27
he's from another state? To get to Hammond, Indiana or Munster, Indiana from Tinley Park, 25 minutes,
00:55:35
>> [snorts] >> 35 minutes if you're a slow driver taking the long the wrong route. You
00:55:40
could be in Indiana in less than an hour. What if he's a violent felon with a previous conviction from the state of
00:55:50
Indiana? And guess what? What do we know about the state of Indiana? They did not
00:55:54
enact that same DNA felony law in their state until 2018 or 2019. Right. So, 10 or more years after these
00:56:09
murders were committed. One of the things that I admire about you, and you said before we
00:56:16
even started the podcast, before we even recorded the first episode, you said, "I
00:56:22
would like to be a show that covers a case and when we have more information that we revisit those cases,
00:56:30
especially the ones that aren't solved that we feel like we could shine some light on."
00:56:35
This letter that you read was from a listener that is very fascinated with this case,
00:56:43
was actually going back and listening to our episode, which caused her to watch different documentaries online.
00:56:52
And because she worked for this company, she was very fascinated with this case because she had a connection
00:56:59
to it. She felt so compelled by the information that she thought she had that she called in this tip. So, it's
00:57:07
not just something that we're reading to our listeners. This is a tip that has been given to law enforcement, but we
00:57:14
feel like time has passed since we covered it last. It's important to revisit these cases. It's important to
00:57:23
continue to shine light on these cases that aren't solved. We have five individuals that were executed and one
00:57:31
that was almost executed. This case needs to be solved. >> I do want to add here, Captain, that
00:57:38
there is a documentary about this case. I believe it's going to be titled Who Killed These Women: The
00:57:46
Tinley Park Five. And it's slated to come out in February of 2026. In fact, there are some
00:57:56
theaters, some special advanced screenings at select theaters in Crestwood, Illinois and in Chicago,
00:58:04
Illinois. This is on the 3rd of February and the 13th of February. I will let those
00:58:12
people who are interested look that information up. But I I want to point out too that this documentary
00:58:20
is done by documentarian and director Charlie Minn. And while that name may not be familiar with everybody listening
00:58:30
today, I am somewhat familiar with his work. He's done a bunch of true crime documentaries over the years, some
00:58:40
really good ones, ones that we have discussed here on our show. One that we've discussed, Captain, you'll
00:58:46
remember this one is Where Is Robert Fisher? He's a FBI Most Wanted Fugitive. He's
00:58:52
done a documentary on that one as well as Parkland: Inside Building 12, which I thought was
00:59:00
incredibly incredibly well done. And then another one that we've discussed here was the
00:59:06
Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre. He's done a documentary on that one as well. So,
00:59:12
that is due to come out in February. I imagine what that will do is spark a lot of more conversation
00:59:20
about this case. Hopefully, it inspires Tinley Park Police Department to up the ante and release some more
00:59:27
information. And I think it's also going to inspire an off-the-record or two where we continue
00:59:34
the conversation about this horrific case. The public is reminded that the offender remains at large and should be
00:59:43
considered armed and dangerous. Remember what we said, the profilers believe that
00:59:48
he will turn on anyone who attempts to turn him in, may even result in violence or killing that person. So, be very very
00:59:58
careful, but do not allow that to deter you providing information. There is a $100,000
01:00:06
reward that has been established for information leading to the arrest of the offender. The Tinley Park Police
01:00:13
Department has said the reward is not is not dependent upon conviction. And they urge anyone with information to
01:00:23
come forward and reminding you that that information will be kept confidential. The tip hotline is 708-444-5394.
01:00:35
And there's also a tip email, lanebryant. l a n e b r y a n t dot tipline at tinleypark.org.
01:01:00
Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
01:01:05
beautiful listeners? Yes, we do, Captain. Thank you. This week we are recommending the
01:01:10
unknown darkness, profiling the predators among us, a former FBI profiler examines his most fascinating
01:01:19
and haunting cases. This is by Greg McCrary, one of the profilers that we discussed
01:01:28
here in this case today. And it features some very fascinating cases. Once again, that title is the unknown
01:01:37
darkness by retired FBI profiler Greg McCrary. You don't have to write down that title right now. You can go to our
01:01:43
website truecrimegarage.com, click on the recommended page and view all of our wonderful recommendations
01:01:50
sitting there waiting for you to enjoy. >> Make sure you subscribe to the podcast
01:01:54
and make sure you tell a friend. Until next week. >> Be good. Be kind. And don't litter.
01:02:12
>> [music] [music]