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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always is a man that knows that brain control beats mind control any day of the week. Ladies and
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gentlemen, here is the captain. Yeah, some of those other shows need a break. We take no break. And we take no
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prisoners. We're not here to take part, we're here to take over. It's good to be
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seen, good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Today we are drinking a fantastic beer
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from the good folks over at Zaftig Brewing Company in beautiful Worthington, Ohio. And we have featured
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several fine beers from Zaftig, but this week we are drinking Tropical Hazy. This
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is a juicy tropical hazy pale ale infused with passion fruit, orange, and guava. Garage grade four and three
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quarter bottle caps out of five. So, 4.75 out of five. So, nearly perfect here, captain. And let's give some cheers to
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our nearly perfect garage friends. First up, a big cheers to Joe Wong in Midlothian, Virginia. And a big shout
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out to Chelsea in Burlington, North Carolina. Next up, we have a cheers to Tiffany
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from the Copacabana on the beautiful central coast of New South Wales, Australia. Cheers. And a big we like you
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jib to Giovanni in Sparks, Nevada. Next up, we have a big cheers to Leslie in Dublin, New Hampshire. And last but
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certainly not least, everybody, we have a big cheers to Brett Baldwin in the parts that remain unknown. Everyone we
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just mentioned, they went to our website, which is truecrimegarage.com, and they clicked on the beer fund and
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helped us out with this week's beer run. And for that, we thank you. Yeah, make sure you wash your parts. B W
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E double R U N, beer run. Thank you so much. Can't thank you enough. Could give you hugs and kisses
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for keeping the garage ship afloat. Thank you so much for donating to the beer fund and for everything True Crime.
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Check out truecrimegarage.com. And Colonel, that is enough of the business. All right, everybody gather
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around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. All right, as we are entering 2022,
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I'm hoping this is the best year ever. Uh, I don't see why it wouldn't be. The last couple years have been a bit of a
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drag, but uh, 2022 is shaping up to be a fine year. And we here in the garage are
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just so thankful and grateful to all of you who have kept the ship going for all
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of these years. And we're excited about this year. But before we move on to 2022,
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a quick look back at all the things that were great on the show in 2021. Longtime listeners know that we've done
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this a couple of times, where we will review the year. And I believe once or twice we've even reviewed the show as a
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whole, over 500 shows, over 600 if you start counting off the record, where we review some of our best
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shows that we've done in our opinion, our humble garage opinions, of the best shows that we've done in the
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last year. So, uh I never thought we'd get to 500. Well, I never thought that anybody would need to
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hear us say what we thought our best shows were of the year, but there's a whole Reddit thread on best
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true crime garage shows of by year and by all time. And so, here we are. We're going to give the good people another
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list to discuss. So, if you haven't heard us do one of these before, the way we do it is we each pick five
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shows that we did or five series that we did from the previous year. The captain
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doesn't know what the colonel has picked. The colonel never knows anything that the captain is going to say anyway.
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So, for the very first time, we are going through our list here together today. Yes, it's a garage party. I will
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be putting some extra stuff in my coffee if you get my drift. So, if I get a little slurry or blurry, it's uh
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keep your eyes on the road. Well, and we like to have a very official and very formal countdown, but
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uh, we can't seem to get Carlos to show up when we requested. Carlos, for for the longtime listeners,
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Carlos uh, thought he was underpaid. And you know what? He probably was. He was the best part of the show.
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We got you sixer. That's right. So, here we go. We're going to start off with the
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colonel. Look, our list, I don't know if they even matter. So, if you're listening to
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the show, think back, look back, get your top five together, go to our blog at truecrimegarage.com
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and leave your top five list or on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. I'll have a post and you can
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post your top five in the comments. I want to see them. I know the colonel wants to see them as well. So, we'll
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start with number five. That's right. We want you to prove us wrong. All right. Colonel's number five,
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here we go. I went with the Zodiac, which was a five-part series. So, very fittingly it falls to number five here.
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This came out in early to mid-March, episodes 470 through 474. In the late '60s, early '70s, we had a
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hooded serial killer terrorizing the San Francisco Bay Area. The killer told the
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press and police to call him the Zodiac. And everybody knows few cases in modern true crime have been
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discussed and speculated more than Zodiac. So, Zodiac is always a topic for discussion in the true crime world. We
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put it off for a couple of years. We had had requests from jump street to cover Zodiac, but it was one of those cases
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that we didn't cover early on. One because we felt you could spend a full year or full season discussing the
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Zodiac case and the tentacles of that case. And we wanted to make sure that when we did do
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the Zodiac, that we did it in a way that we thought was appropriate and without it taking over True Crime Garage. So, we
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did a five-part series in March. And I was very happy with the way that it turned out. I was super excited going
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into it for a number of reasons. It's a case that's always in the back of my mind. It's one of those cases that once
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a year, I find myself eyeballs deep in researching the Zodiac case. And we were lucky enough to have
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our good friend, longtime friend of the show, Mike Morford from the Criminology podcast. He
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joined us cuz he knows everything Zodiac. He was on, what, captain? Two of the episodes and we did a five-part
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series. So, the first first three episodes were simply dedicated to, and I I really like the way that we did this,
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because there's a lot of questionable Zodiac victims out there. And ones that are not
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confirmed or unconfirmed, I guess would be a better word to say. But what we simply did with the first three episodes
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was a heavy focus on the confirmed kill timeline and the evidence that was found
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at those murder scenes. We offered up, of course, our own speculation cuz that's what we do here in the garage.
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But I really like the way that that turned out. I think we didn't set out for it to be five episodes, but I think
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five was was the just the right amount. Yeah, so my number five is one that is not just close to the heart, but uh
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close to this episode. I think um we we titled the episode a serial killer phone call. Episode 544.
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Maybe a real caller, maybe a fake caller calls into Howard Stern's show and talks for about 10 minutes
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confessing that he's a serial killer. And we got a such great response, just people chiming in what whether they
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thought it was a real call or not. I think at the time I was leaning towards it was a real call.
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And based on the blog post, there was a couple of things that people pointed out
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where I went, "Oh, it's making me a little little more suspicious than I was before." So, now I'm kind of leaning
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toward the fact that it was a fake call, but I think it's a interesting clip and it was just a fun
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episode to record. Well, often we are doing these cases that are very dark, very heavy subject
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matter and you know, it weighs on you a little bit. And we were able to take a step back and this was something that we
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were surprised. We were both a little surprised that we were getting requests for. Hey, we we want to hear you guys
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review this this call. I think a lot of people wanted to hear the call themselves for one more time and it's
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something that a lot of people seem to be on the fence of. Is this is this real? Is this legit or not? And I think
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there's good argument for both sides of that, but you know, it was near the holidays and and we had originally
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thought we'll put this on off the record. This is a perfect discussion for off the record, but with so many
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requests to cover it, we had to move it to the big show and you're right, the responses have been incredible and the
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blog posts have been very interesting. I like anytime we can put out something that creates and generates interesting
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creative discussion. And I think that's exactly what happened here with the serial killer phone call
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episode. Well, like you said, some of these cases are so dark, so this was actually an idea that I I think
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I presented to sometime last year. And so the fact that not only did the listeners say, "Hey, this is an idea
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that we think you should go over because like I told people on the show, the last
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couple months this has been popping up as a as a discussion on I haven't I haven't seen another podcast cover it,
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but I've seen a couple YouTube channels cover it and I thought, "Look, for whatever reason we we're all having the
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same kind of creative idea to put out a creative show episode that is true crime
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related, but essentially we don't know if we have victims in this case or not. All right, Colonel,
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your number four. All right, so my number four here, Captain, I went with Asha Degree
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parts one and two. This is episodes 475 and 476, which came out right after our Zodiac episodes. Came out in March 23rd
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and 24th. So, boom as my my old friend Jason would say, bang, bang, bang. We were really we were really nailing at
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those three weeks in a row in the Colonel's opinion here. So, Asha Degree. There's a Reddit thread out there that's
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titled most bizarre missing persons cases True Crime Garage has covered. So, of course Brian Shaffer's on there, Emma
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Fillipoff are on this list, but a 2021 addition to this list most certainly was Asha
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Degree. So, in the middle of a cold rainy night she's only 9 years old. Asha left her
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home on foot. Where she was going, we don't seem to really know. That's unconfirmed. Why did she leave? We don't
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really know. There's some speculation maybe she was simply sleepwalking. I threw out there my speculation is that
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she was either running towards something or running away from something. Who knows, maybe both. The evidence is
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obvious and mysterious. Foul play is most certainly involved here. It's one of those weird breadcrumb trail
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cases. The the further you look into it, it just becomes a bigger and bigger mystery. Like for me, this case
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made my list because of the research that that went into it. And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back. What
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I'm saying is the the interest like the interest level for me was an 11 on this thing, right? I Once I
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started looking into it, the Captain brought it up, said, "Hey, have you heard of this Asha Degree case?" And I
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said, "I I've heard something about it, but I don't know it very well." He goes,
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"I think this is a must cover." And I looked it up and I was like, "This is a really short story. I don't know how
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much stuff is here." And then I started looking into it and diving into it and there is
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it's just it's very fitting that it is on that list of most bizarre missing persons
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cases that we have covered because it is certainly just a strange, weird case where there
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are breadcrumbs, but it's hard to make heads or tails of what that evidence is and where it it's
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supposed to lead you. Well, this year, 2021, I became friends with two great true
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crime minds, Brett and Alice from the Prosecutor podcast. Met them. We had a long discussion with
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Maggie Freeling. It was supposed to last an hour. I think we recorded about 5 hours, but Brett and
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Alice actually reached out to me and said, "Look, this Asha Degree case, we covered it.
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There doesn't seem like there's a lot of meat on the bones, but if you dive in, there's a lot there.
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Will you guys please cover it? Because with your audience, you can get this information out there and because
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there was a picture that was found that nobody's ever identified the person or the girl in the picture. They thought
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with our platform that maybe we could do some good. So, one, it was great to meet
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them and become friends with them through them suggesting this case and it was one of the first times the
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history of our show where another podcast had reached out to us and said, "Look, I know we covered this case, but
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please look into this because because you might be able to do some good." And that's also the reason why Asha Degree
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is my number four as well. Oh, wow. We both on hit both of our lists in at the exact
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same spot. That's that's super interesting. And yeah, you're right, the prosecutors, great people and when they
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reached out and and said, "Hey, would you guys take a look at it and would you put it on your show?"
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That's I love getting that because it's not like it's not just, "Hey, all right,
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we have a new new friends of the show," but we we have allies, right? These are our allies. They want the same things
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that we want. They want the same things that our audience wants and it's not just to
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review these cases and talk about them, but maybe do some good along the way. And this is a bizarre case. It's again,
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it's one of those ones that when you hear about the case or read about the case, you start saying to yourself,
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"Why isn't this a more well-known case?" Because there it's just simply fascinating and very very unsolved
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mysteries like if you wanted to put a stamp on something, I think that would be appropriate here in Asha's case.
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Well, and also with more and more people starting true crime podcast, you know, we started just to see if we could do
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it. And once we realized that there was a platform Yes. Uh or maybe we Maybe we can't. We're still practicing
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for the Hey, we're going to find out in the next 500 episodes. You want to get into it for the right
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reasons. If you're sitting at home going, "I'd love to start a true crime podcast so I can get more Twitter
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followers or I can be famous or something." I just don't think that's the right reasons. Do it do
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it because these victims have stories that need to be told. These cases need help. They
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need attention brought to them. The more attention brought to the case, the more
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chances that the case can be solved and more pressure that's put on prosecutors and law enforcement to not forget about
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these cases and not to forget about the people, the victims in these cases. Brett and Alice, they're they're
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prosecutors. They don't have a lot of time on their plate and they put a lot of effort into putting out great quality
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content. So, it was just again, great meeting them and and to and it's been great to work with so
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many, I mean, from CrimeCon UK to a lot of the podcasts in the states to feel like
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you're working together. You know, there yes, there are some of those podcasts out there that they're
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not a part of the community and they think they're better than the other shows and and blah, blah, blah, but for
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the most part the true crime podcast world has been very friendly to us and very supportive. And so
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I think this shows because like you said, to have this case on a list and have people talking about it on
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the internet, hopefully they they get some movement in the case. Well, and that's a good reminder there,
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Captain, and something that we remind ourselves and feel the need to remind, you know, people that are tuning in as
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well that these are real life cases. These these are true stories, obviously, but they're someone's tragedy.
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They are someone's nightmare. They are someone's heartbreak. And we can tell these stories and we can
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listen to these stories and we can read about them, but we need to make sure that we are always keeping in mind the
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human element, the the real life element of of these cases. And another reason why this
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Asha Degree case made my list, too, was it was you know, we we develop a bit of a thick
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skin. Maybe you know, we we become a little rough around the edges because we we are looking at this stuff
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all week long every week, week after week. But this was one of those cases that got
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to me. They don't all get to me and I don't have any understanding why some cases will get to me and others won't,
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but in this case, I certainly did because what I I couldn't shake. I couldn't get it out of my mind. And it
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for a whole week, every time I closed my eyes, what I was seeing was this little
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girl, 9 years old, walking in the cold, in the dark, and in the rain by herself along the roadside. And my freaking
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heart just broke every time. Like I just I wanted to become I you know, God make
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me an angel so I could have just swooped her up and and who knows? I mean, again,
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she could have been sleepwalking, but let's toss that out for a second. Let's say if she was not sleepwalking.
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That is a powerful powerful thing to have a 9-year-old walking in the dark. Kids don't like the dark. Nobody likes
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the rain and the cold. She's out walking by herself in the middle of the night along a country road.
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I cannot and and will not ever pretend to understand the magnitude of that situation, nor what her emotions were
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and why she was putting She's putting herself in the situation. And that's that's
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something that was just too powerful for me to shake. I I couldn't shake it and it it I mean, it
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it it breaks my heart thinking about it now. Well, surprise, surprise, the the the captain is going to disagree with
00:21:08
you. And hear me out on this. Maybe maybe I'll get you to change your mind. Yes, we look into these dark cases every
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week. There's real life victims. We sometimes are talking with the the families of those victims.
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I don't think it's made me a tougher individual. I think it's actually made me more sensitive to the subject. Really
00:21:32
understanding the human element of it. And just the podcast in general. I mean, we're going to do that live event in
00:21:40
February. And anytime we do a live event to meet our listeners, it's a humbling experience. So I almost feel like the
00:21:48
whole not just diving into the cases, but the whole podcast experience has made me a little more grateful to just
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wake up every day. And and also just the the the abusive situations that a lot of these victims
00:22:01
are in before before the actual murder takes place. I get what you're saying where it could make you a little rough
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around the edges, but I I I actually think it's made both of me and you more uh sensitive people. So we both have the
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same number four. That again, that was Asha Degree parts one and two, episodes 475, 476 came out in March of 2021 for
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any of you listening that have not already heard those episodes or want to go back and listen to them again. That
00:22:35
should help you in your search. So for my number three here, I have the Yogurt Shop Murders 30
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Years Later, which we covered on November 30th and December 1st. And we were covering those 30 years later at
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that time period, that week, because later that week would be exactly 30 years later. Those are episodes 539 and
00:23:00
540. And this is one of those cases that you review and you're just shocked. Just
00:23:07
I I'm in complete shock and and almost disbelief here that 30 years later this has not been solved. You know, if you
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know the case, you you understand why. There's certainly been plenty of speed bumps along the way. Uh part of that
00:23:21
being that they actually convicted two individuals of being involved and committing these these homicides. This
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is a quadruple homicide case that took place in 1991 in Austin, Texas at a Austin Yogurt Shop. It's one of the most
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infamous cases in Texas history in in my opinion. And despite the efforts of the
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Austin Police Department, it as said, remains unsolved 30 years later. Well, this is a great pick.
00:23:49
I actually kind of forgot about this case because this is the second time we're covering
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it. When you suggested that we put it on the list because of the anniversary, which I
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I don't think maybe that many listeners understand there's a lot of times the schedule is lining up
00:24:05
with anniversaries of cases. And and that's all due to your work. So I applaud you there, partner.
00:24:14
But great case and the second time around, when you suggested it, I was like, oh,
00:24:19
we already covered this case. But the second time around, I found it way more interesting. It's it's a very
00:24:26
fascinating case. If you haven't listened to those episodes, not only should you listen to those episodes, but
00:24:32
go look up some of the diagrams that people have online about the shop. You can do some deep dives into that case.
00:24:39
So very nice pick. Well, and you're right. It was one that we did have an off-mic discussion of
00:24:46
well, really, should we cover this again? Cuz I I think we both felt the same way that we were pretty
00:24:52
thorough in in covering it the first time around, which was in 2017, I believe. I'm it was episodes 81 and 82.
00:25:03
And I do think that even though we devoted four episodes to it and really four years apart, splitting them in twos
00:25:12
into pairs there, I think you could listen to all four. They're very different episodes and and we kind of
00:25:18
shaped them differently. Unfortunately, when a case is unsolved for for 30 years
00:25:24
and it hits that 30-year marker, it's a good time to remind everybody that, hey, this thing is is not solved.
00:25:32
We had four young people lose their lives and they were terrorized for about 45, 48 minutes that night in in Austin.
00:25:40
It's it's a good reminder. I know Austin didn't need a reminder. They This is a case that uh is on the hearts and minds
00:25:47
of of Austinites? Are they Austinites? Is that what we call them? The great people of Austin. And this is a case too
00:25:54
that is again, it's one of the most infamous cases in Texas history. So it's one of those cases that the whole state
00:26:01
of Texas yearns for. Uh and and it's one of those that that needs to have some justice.
00:26:08
It seems like there's meat on the bone here that they do have some evidence that could lead to understanding and
00:26:15
pointing to exactly who is responsible for this. I believe it's more than one perpetrator. If I if I had to pick just
00:26:24
based off of the evidence and what the crime scene shows us, it seems to support two or more offenders.
00:26:32
This too, Captain, is is one of those cases where I think a couple years ago we did a unsolved cases that we've
00:26:40
covered that are I I I can't remember what we titled it, if it were solvable solvable solvable or ones that we if if
00:26:48
you could solve, if you could make a list, but you could only put so many on there of cases that would be solved.
00:26:53
This case was certainly in that discussion. And this is a case that has fascinated me throughout the decades and
00:27:01
will continue to fascinate me even when they do solve it. And I do think that they will solve it. And I think that a
00:27:09
lot of the blanks, a lot of the things that we are not able to understand or a lot of the dots that we were unable to
00:27:15
connect will be connected once we solve this case and and I will I I look forward to that day. All right. So
00:27:24
number three for me was the Bone Breaker Killer episode number 512, 513. This was just uh
00:27:36
all around fascinating case. Yes. Uh and horrifying. Yes. It was one of the cases that
00:27:44
when you're researching it, you almost think that like you're reading like a movie script or something. You're
00:27:52
like, this this can't this can't be true. I mean, this and I don't want to give too much away cuz I
00:28:01
want people to go back and listen if they haven't. But there's definitely details in this case that just
00:28:06
they're sickening. There's some gruesomeness to this case. Uh but it was definitely one
00:28:14
that when I started researching and and putting together the the the music for the show for that episode that week, cuz
00:28:21
that's what I like to do. I like to pull up, even if it's just Wikipedia, and start reading about the case and trying
00:28:27
to see if I can get some kind of vibe. How how do I want to make the theme music this week? And
00:28:34
what's the case saying to me? And this one, there was it's like, man, when you start
00:28:41
doing the research on it, right away sparks your interest and and and has you firing on all cylinders. So
00:28:49
yeah, number three for me is the Bone Breaker Killer. And that case is again, not trying to give too much away. That
00:28:55
was in definitely definitely in consideration for me, Captain. It was one that as I was whittling down my
00:29:02
list, it was it was hanging around and hanging around. Truly fascinating. One in part because of just the the
00:29:11
the rare ness of the case, where we have a very unique situation where the killer and
00:29:18
abductor is act actually going into homes in the middle of the night and abducting the
00:29:24
victim almost right out of their beds, which is just completely bizarre. It's a high risk factor that
00:29:32
you rarely see in in cases. And terrifying. Completely terrifying. I think you hit the nail on the head when
00:29:39
you said, hey, I felt like I was reading a script for some Hollywood horror flick
00:29:44
that's about to come out. Because it's it's almost unbelievable. And also the age of the victims and the
00:29:51
age of the murderer, that to me kind of had a fascinating twist. But anyways, I don't want to give
00:29:58
too much away. Again, the Bone Breaker Killer 512 and 513. We will finish our list right after this quick beer break.
00:30:33
All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. Cheers to you, Colonel, on another great year in the true crime
00:30:42
world. Another year done, and we are on into the next great year. Here we go, 2022.
00:30:50
Well, and thanks to all the listeners. We'll be here for another year. That's right. That's right. At least one more
00:30:56
year. After that, there's no plans after that. So, we got through our Yeah, we each got through our top Well,
00:31:05
our five, four, and three. And now we each have our top two left on our list. Would Can I do the honors and
00:31:14
kick off my number two here? Well, let me do my number two because it's pretty disappointing, like my
00:31:22
bedroom skills. Okay. Because mine is the Zodiac five-part series, which is already on
00:31:29
your list, so I feel like I dis um none of the listeners right now are satisfied.
00:31:34
I say nay. I think that uh everybody's satisfied. I I'd like I think that you know, we we do share some of the
00:31:42
same opinions, and that's obvious here. And so, I think that they like when we agree, and they like when we disagree,
00:31:47
and uh this list is certainly going to have both of those elements to it. I was trolling around the old internet this
00:31:55
weekend, and I did come across and I I should have wrote it down, but I I did not. But
00:32:02
there was a website that said that we had the best Zodiac podcast of 2021. You know, obviously, this is a case
00:32:12
that's Hey. Yeah, this is a case that's been covered a lot, and so we're we're not claiming,
00:32:18
or nor is this website claiming, that we have the best podcast Zodiac podcast of
00:32:24
all time, but the But they didn't say The headline I saw said best Zodiac podcast 2021.
00:32:32
Again, I should have wrote that down. But hey, throw in the caveat there, too, Captain.
00:32:38
Maybe we're the only ones that covered it last year. If you're the only ones, then you're the
00:32:45
best. Well, a couple reasons. One, not to toot my own horn, but it I think it's one of my favorite one of my
00:32:53
favorite musical themes that I did this year. And also, we did individual artwork for
00:33:01
every episode, which was done by my buddy Scotty Boombox, which has helped us out a lot. He did
00:33:07
all the artwork of the single episodes of JonBenét Ramsey when we did that. He did the Shaker Heights
00:33:14
artwork. So, he's done a lot of cool stuff for us in the past, and and to have him be a part of that.
00:33:20
And look, there's a couple movies that I go to. You know this. Sometimes the research is a lot of work.
00:33:31
And so, when you're not feeling it, I feel like if I throw on the movie Zodiac, or I throw on Mindhunter, or I throw on
00:33:41
Silence of the Lambs, or I throw on Spotlight, I can get in the mood to do to want to
00:33:48
do the research. But But yeah, so Zodiac, I just thought you did a really good job of it, and
00:33:54
that's why it's my number two. So, so that's my number two. Now, let's go with your number two.
00:33:58
Well, the Zodiac, yes, can be some heavy lifting when it comes to the research. That's why it was interesting to kind of
00:34:04
put it together the way that that we did and present it in that form. And I'm glad that you brought up the movie
00:34:10
because I failed to do so when when I had it on my list, but uh if you're out there, and you're
00:34:16
listening to this show, and you've not bothered to take carve out two hours of your life and
00:34:23
watch the Zodiac movie, it is one of the best true crime dramatization movies you
00:34:31
ever will see. I mean, it's Yeah, it's almost like a biopic of the investigation.
00:34:35
Yeah, you got so many good actors and actresses in the movie as well, and it's just really well put together. The The
00:34:41
music's good. It's shot well. It's filmed well. It it for whatever reason didn't do well in at
00:34:48
the box office, but it is for me, I fell in love with it the first time I saw it, and I thought
00:34:54
I've probably watched it maybe 10 times. It's one of those movies that I enjoy it
00:34:58
so much that like you said, you pop it in for a little bit of inspiration, but there it's a movie that I could pick up
00:35:06
on at any point in the movie. Like I don't have to start it at the beginning. Um I can and I find myself completely
00:35:14
completely immersed in in fascination with the case and the story as soon as I as soon as that movie comes on.
00:35:22
So, good pick there, Captain. Zodiac for your number two. For my number two, I went with the Chelsea Small case. We
00:35:30
did two episodes on Chelsea Small's case, covered it in June of 2021. This would be episodes
00:35:39
495 and 496. This was June 15th and 16th that it came out. And interestingly enough here, I've I've seen this case
00:35:51
hitting the news, especially on the local level, since our coverage. Now, I'm not going to pretend that our
00:35:57
coverage has anything to do with it, but hey, we didn't we couldn't have hurt. This was one of those cases, another
00:36:02
case that I go, "Why is this case not more well known?" You look into it, and you go, "This is
00:36:09
completely fascinating. It's a bizarre case. We have the killer on surveillance footage from that day, from that tragic,
00:36:18
horrific day. And yet we still have not found Chelsea Small's killer." So, clickondetroit.com
00:36:26
did one of the most recent articles on the case, which came out in November of last year. And they say Chelsea Small
00:36:35
was just 30 years old with a bright future ahead of her when she was murdered on the job in 2013.
00:36:42
Small was the mother of two young children. She was gunned down at her place of work on what was supposed to be
00:36:48
her day off. If you've listened to our coverage, you remember that she was covering for another co-worker that day.
00:36:54
This was something that they had agreed upon days in advance so that Chelsea could have a a different day off, or the
00:37:02
co-worker could have swapped days, what have you. But uh she was working on November 12th, 2013 at the Advance
00:37:10
America Check Cashing Place on Telegraph Road in Taylor, Michigan, which is a a very nice town, very nice city. I think
00:37:19
a lot of people were surprised that this happened there. This was a very busy road. Many businesses, many people out
00:37:27
working that day, middle of the week. There is still a reward in her case, in the Chelsea Small case, that is being
00:37:34
offered up that is now up to $52,000 to anyone who has information leading to an arrest. So, anyone with information,
00:37:44
look, you can Google search your fancy computer machine you got there at home, and it will pull up the video for you,
00:37:52
and you can see the killer walk into the Advance America Check Cashing Place. You see what goes down. He's in there
00:38:03
very briefly. There's a few different websites that you can find this video. It's readily available. I I would
00:38:10
suggest watching the more recent ones because police did hold on to some information. Detectives held some
00:38:17
information back in this investigation early on for the first few years, information that would have been very
00:38:25
important to their investigation and to a possible confession. Because look, after her murder and the surveillance
00:38:33
footage came out to the public, and the billboards went up, and the the public outcry, I think this was another
00:38:41
this was a similar Delphi situation where people thought an arrest is coming, they'll find this guy, and it's
00:38:49
going to happen with the quickness. And here we sit. That was 2013. We are kicking off 2022. We still do not
00:38:57
know who killed Chelsea Small. Another very interesting angle in this case, too,
00:39:03
is I referenced this when we covered it, that there's there's a small possibility here
00:39:12
that this case, and I think it should be included in the discussion for the I-70
00:39:17
Killer. We covered the I-70 Killer case back in 2020. And the Chelsea Small case, this was not
00:39:25
a case that I was even aware of. And you know, we're we're here in Ohio, neighboring
00:39:32
Michigan, and the public outcry, and again, the the awareness to the public, and the the
00:39:38
surveillance footage, I was still unaware of this case, and I was a little bit shocked that this case
00:39:44
was so interesting, so fascinating, still unsolved, and I was unaware of it. The way that it came onto my radar here,
00:39:51
Captain, was somebody emailed the show and said you guys did a good job covering the I-70 Killer, which
00:39:58
was one of my one of my favorite episodes or or coverage from 2020. Often when we cover these cases,
00:40:06
especially an unsolved serial killer case, we will get a lot of of people coming
00:40:13
out of the woodwork saying, "You know, I think this guy could could be the guy. I
00:40:17
think this is the best suspect. And here's why." I love receiving the emails, keep them coming, but I got to
00:40:24
say most of the time the people that are suggesting the suspects that have been presented
00:40:32
those times to us, not really good suspects. Somebody emailed me emailed the show
00:40:39
saying, "Look, there's a there's a small chance here, you know, very thin chance
00:40:44
that this is connected, but I think in the I-70 Killer conversation, this Chelsea Small case
00:40:52
should be included until we can confirm that it's not one in the series because there's so
00:41:00
many similarities to Chelsea Small's case to the I-70 Killer. And I found that absolutely fascinating
00:41:08
and I found the case just completely mysterious. I I don't I still do not know to this day how this individual has
00:41:16
gotten away with it all of these years later. So, this was one of those cases that was suggested to us and I'm so
00:41:24
thankful to the listeners for that because I thought it turned out to be two really
00:41:30
great episodes and this is one where you really feel like you can make some make
00:41:35
some good here, right? Because this is something that we need to put as many earballs and eyeballs on. This is
00:41:43
something that we can tell you the story. We can tell you our speculation. We can tell you the reasons why these
00:41:50
other crimes might be connected. We talked about a gun theft that happened in the area about 6 months beforehand.
00:41:57
We can show you all that and tell you all of that, but here is a situation where we can then send you as soon as
00:42:03
you as soon as you pull out the earbuds, you can you can hop on the old internet
00:42:07
machine and look it up and go, "You know what? I can view the video, the surveillance footage for myself. And I
00:42:13
can I can I can make a list of what I believe that I'm seeing. Is there is there evidence that
00:42:21
I can spot with my eyes? Are are there actions by the killer that I can spot and
00:42:27
and really kind of put him in one compartment away from others. And this is one of those cases where we were able
00:42:33
to do that and that doesn't happen in so many cases and that's why I just found this one to be incredibly interesting
00:42:41
and a little shocked that it took us all these years to cover it, but again, thank you to the listeners for putting
00:42:46
this one on our radar so we we know to go out and look into this case. A big cheers to the listeners that also follow
00:42:54
us on social media, that share the information. Like with the Asia Degree case, we needed people sharing that
00:43:02
photo. Thousands of people shared that photo. In this case, you have photos, video footage,
00:43:09
but that information needs to be shared. It's one thing to discuss it, but that's
00:43:13
what's so great about the true crime community and what's so great about our listeners is they realize it's not just
00:43:20
information and entertainment, that there is something that we can do. The power is in our
00:43:26
hands if we share the information enough that we might get good leads and we have
00:43:31
been contacted several times and talked to several family members of victims where after
00:43:38
the show law enforcement is getting new leads and can't thank you enough for that.
00:43:44
Well, and this is one of those cases, too, where we need to make sure that we throw out big ups to the Taylor Police
00:43:50
Department because this is a case that they have they have told us this is not something that they're saying to some
00:43:57
news outlet or or some other place. They have directly told us this case is very
00:44:03
solvable. We have we have speculation within our own department of why things were the way
00:44:10
they were that day or and and how things went down, but that aside, every one of
00:44:16
the detectives that have laid eyes on this case and and done the you know, pounded the pavement and done
00:44:22
the the the legwork on this case have all said the same thing. This case is extremely solvable. They all believe
00:44:30
that it will be solved. And the break may come from the public. So, when we decided to cover it, it was
00:44:38
really it was really nice of them to be so forthcoming and sit down with us and talk with us about the case and give us
00:44:47
some information on the case to to maybe again, maybe it hits the right earballs. Maybe
00:44:55
we send the right eyeballs to watch the video and that is how this thing is going to get solved. Again, a young
00:45:01
mother, her whole life ahead of her. She was 30 years old. She was just really starting
00:45:07
starting off and and and making her way in this world and just a tragic, horrific event that went down and it
00:45:16
seems like just such a senseless, random act of violence that that has very little explanation. And the Taylor
00:45:24
Police Department, again, big ups to them for for taking the time to speak with us at length about the case. Kudos
00:45:30
to them for the good work that they're doing on the Chelsea Small case. It's that time.
00:45:36
Again, I don't know if our list matters so much. It's us patting ourselves on the back,
00:45:43
but I I want to I want to hear from the listeners what your top five is. So, so make sure that you go to our blog and
00:45:51
tell us what your top five of the year. And maybe throw in there maybe a case suggestion, maybe something that we
00:45:58
haven't covered that we can try to get to in 2022. So, my number one. Now, this is kind of weird because I
00:46:06
think I think you have to put these together. Mhm. Because we did the Tylenol Murders,
00:46:14
which was 480 and 481. But that kind of goes into the Unabomber case, which would be episodes 482 and
00:46:25
483. So, I'm putting them together even though we didn't put them in in a part one, part two, part three, part four
00:46:33
series. They that's essentially what they are. Yes, and we did that on purpose. We had
00:46:39
planned that well in advance. We we both wanted to cover the Unabomber case and we both wanted to cover the Tylenol
00:46:46
Murders case. And we had them slated for last year. When we were going into 2021, we just
00:46:56
didn't kind of know when we were going to cover them and I'm not going to lie, I don't think either of us as much as we
00:47:03
wanted to cover the cases and as much as we thought they were fascinating, interesting cases, we knew that it was a
00:47:09
kind of a big undertaking. They're both both very big cases with a lot of information out there, especially
00:47:16
Unabomber because it it is solved, but there is some speculation and always will be until the Tylenol Murders case
00:47:25
is solved that these two could be connected because a a bomber and a poisoner are
00:47:33
similar in MO. And if somebody could have pulled off, well, not if somebody could have pulled off, we know somebody
00:47:40
did pull off the Tylenol Murders. Ted Kaczynski was certainly capable of of that. So, when we reviewed it from
00:47:48
that angle, and it's not I wouldn't say that we released them this way because we
00:47:53
believe that theory, just that we agree that that theory is interesting and there is some
00:48:00
credibility to it. So, we thought this was an interesting way of putting them out and putting them
00:48:07
out back-to-back. But again, then knowing, all right, we're going to have about 3 4 weeks of of a lot of heavy
00:48:14
lifting on two very very big cases. Correct me if I'm wrong, Captain. You're saying both of those were were
00:48:22
two-parters. I remember it when we're putting together the shows in both of those
00:48:28
cases, both of them felt like they could have gone three or four parts. Uh just really again, really big cases
00:48:35
and I I'm glad. I'm really glad that we put them out back-to-back like that. I'm going to pat myself on the back, do
00:48:41
a little flicky flicky. I like the I did. I wasn't oohing for that, but go ahead. Oh, yeah, you were. I know what
00:48:47
you were going to say. I was oohing for that. Yeah. Or maybe it was you. Um no, I I just like the music.
00:48:55
So, some of them come to me easier, some sometimes they're a little more work, but there's
00:49:03
so many things that I like about doing the show and and obviously working with you, but
00:49:09
one of the the perks is take the JonBenét Ramsey case, O.J. Simpson case, Delphi Murders. Now here, Zodiac,
00:49:20
Unabomber, cases that you might have had glimpses into throughout your life, but
00:49:26
you never took a deep dive and that being a part of what we get to do. You know, sometimes it feels like we
00:49:34
have to do and then sometimes it feels like we get to do. And especially like I said with like watching Zodiac as much
00:49:41
as I have to finally take a deep dive and kind of really wrap your head around the case and
00:49:48
why are so many people fascinated? Why is there It's just like with Jack the Ripper or JonBenét there
00:49:57
or Maura Murray, there's these sub cultures within the true crime world that are really fascinated with those cases
00:50:06
and and why are they? And to really get to uncover that. And I'm glad that you paired those together.
00:50:13
You know, you might have one or two uh weirdos sitting at home going, "Well, the captain kind of cheated here." I
00:50:18
don't think so because I I share the same opinion. Like when I was trying again, trying to whittle down my list
00:50:25
here going into today, those two cases were in strong consideration. The issue that I kept running into was I
00:50:33
felt like if I included one, I needed to include the other as well. And last year we did an episode where we
00:50:41
talked about our favorite trailers. You know, we call people Some people are going, "What's a
00:50:46
trailer?" Well, we call that that portion at the the start of the show after the beer the nonsense is out of
00:50:54
the way when we say we're going to talk some true crime, we go to the captain's music, we go to the colonel trying to do
00:51:01
his best uh young Robert Stack uh version of myself. And that is what we call our trailers. And last year we
00:51:10
did an episode where we just simply talked about our our favorite true crime garage trailers. The Unabomber case
00:51:18
was on my favorite trailer list. So, I again, agree with you. The music was fantastic on both of those and the
00:51:25
Unabomber trailer was really Hey. This is just a show where we're just so proud of ourselves, huh?
00:51:35
People are annoyed. They're like, "You guys think you're so great. Why don't you just shut up already?"
00:51:41
We're not those kind of people. is difficult for us. The funny thing is we think it makes
00:51:47
sense. The formula makes sense. Hey, let the audience know what we thought were our
00:51:53
or let the audience into um our minds of which cases we enjoyed putting out the most this year.
00:52:01
But we are not these kind of people. We just want to move on to the next case and and keep it going. But we didn't
00:52:08
want to take a break. Other shows are taking a break. I stand by that. We didn't take a break. Now, we might take
00:52:14
some breaks next year. Well, and it's I stand by the fact that we didn't take a break. And it is a little bit of fun for
00:52:20
us though too to do these kinds of shows where we can relax a little bit. They're
00:52:23
a little more chill. They're a little more fun for us. It's a garage party like you said, Captain. And you know,
00:52:29
with Yes. coming off of Christmas week you don't want to be you don't want to be too knee deep in the research and
00:52:36
dancing in the blood too much, right? It's It's a time for family and friends and love and happiness and um sometimes
00:52:41
true crime, as the listeners know, can get in the way of that. So, I'm I'm very happy that we could do this episode here
00:52:50
today. And as you said, not take the week off. But for my number one, so that that will lead me to my number one here.
00:52:57
And I went with one that was from very early in the year of 2021. In fact, it came out the last week of
00:53:05
January and the first week of February. It was a four-part series. I I really enjoyed putting these
00:53:13
together and I thought they turned out fantastic. And I'm talking about When the Demons Came Out parts one through
00:53:19
four. That's episodes 459, 460, 461 and two. Now, this was something that I had wanted to do on the show for
00:53:30
for quite some time. And really what When the Demons Came Out is and the reason why it is four parts is it's kind
00:53:38
of a uh a mashup of several cases, Ohio cases in the early '80s. And some of them are
00:53:47
connected and some of them are not. Some of them are cold cases, some of them have been solved. But it was an
00:53:53
interesting way to kind of mash them up and put them together because in the early '80s there was something very
00:53:59
frightening that was going on in Ohio. And unfortunately, this was going on in other states as well. But um
00:54:05
there was a bizarre string of child abductions and murders that hit Northeast Ohio and Central Ohio roughly
00:54:12
all at the same time. We took a deep dive into those old cases. Again, some of them cold, some of them solved. And
00:54:20
one thing that really perturbed me, and Captain, you know this and long-time listeners know this, one thing that I
00:54:25
cannot stand that bothers the hell out of me. And I Look, I don't pretend to be perfect. I know that I get things wrong.
00:54:31
I'm I'm I'm batting a thousand on getting about two or three things wrong a week, whether it's mispronouncing
00:54:37
someone's name or just saying some dumb thought that came to mind. But Some people think you picked the wrong part
00:54:44
Well, it 550 episodes. have to disagree with that, but uh But You would have been wrong 550 times,
00:54:55
my friend. It upsets me when the facts of some of these cases are misreported and then
00:55:01
because what happens is they conti- they continue to be misreported. Like somebody else gathers the wrong
00:55:07
information from a source that didn't do a great job for whatever reason. And look, these sources can do a great job
00:55:13
on one case and a bad job on other cases. That It happens. It's We're not saying everything that they do is junk.
00:55:19
But one thing that that upset me for the longest time was that on Wikipedia they had said that Robert Buell, who was
00:55:27
a known serial killer in the state of Ohio, killed Kelly Ann Prosser. And that was simply not the truth. We Her killer
00:55:35
was discovered through DNA many years later. But even after her killer was discovered
00:55:41
nobody ever bothered to take that down. You know, it it once was speculation and
00:55:47
he was suspected in it. Of course, he was sus- a suspect in that case. But if you go back and you review the
00:55:53
information from the early '80s, that was a lead and something that the investigators actually worked on was
00:55:59
trying to put Robert Buell in Central Ohio. He was he was abducting women and girls in Northeast Ohio and
00:56:08
killing them. And they thought, "Well, maybe he came down here and and did it a couple of
00:56:13
times." And they could never place him in Franklin County during any of the time frames of these
00:56:21
girls or women going missing or being killed. And so that was certainly something that they looked into. And
00:56:26
what for whatever reason, almost 40 years later, it still sat there on Wikipedia that he was
00:56:32
a suspect in Kelly Ann Prosser's case or it's believed that he was the killer when in fact we learned that he he was
00:56:40
not. So, if you haven't listened to those episodes, those were were my favorite of the year. And again, it's
00:56:48
really just a mashup of this serial killer, this active serial killer Robert Buell, who's kind of one of these
00:56:55
unknown serial killers, lesser-known serial killers that was active in the state of Ohio. And he's guilty of some
00:57:02
horrible horrible stuff and it does not bother me one bit that he is dead. The state of Ohio killed him in 2002. He
00:57:12
refused to give give any kind of answers or or any justice to some of his victims and their
00:57:22
families. Even when all those years later, you know, he was he was locked up in the '80s. So, he had plenty of time
00:57:31
to tell us what he knew and he refused to do so. And these episodes were really a way of
00:57:39
bringing up him, a lesser-known serial killer that we had not yet told his story or told the story
00:57:48
of of him. These other victims that were at one time loosely connected to the Robert
00:57:54
Buell story, but but certainly weren't actually connected. So, it was a way to discuss Ohio cold cases and some solved
00:58:02
cases. And everybody knows that I I'm just fascinated by Ohio cold cases. So, it was really interesting to put that
00:58:09
together. And I was happy that we did so. Um the other thing I love too, Captain, is the
00:58:15
title, When the Demons Came Out. And I can't take credit for that. That was in an old newspaper article. After Robert
00:58:22
Buell was arrested, they were interviewing people that knew him, that worked with him, that lived in the same
00:58:27
neighborhood as him. Right. One of the guys that I found fascinating that they were interviewing, and I don't I don't
00:58:32
have his name here, but the line that stuck with me was this guy that was interviewed said, "When the demons came
00:58:38
out." He said, "You know, Robert Buell was a great guy. I I thought he was a great guy. He was He was funny. He was
00:58:44
personable. He was well-liked in the neighborhood. He was well-liked at work. I guess I never saw him when the demons
00:58:50
came out." And I that just that title and that that sentence from that old that old newspaper article stuck with
00:58:58
me. And I think it really kind of sums up who Robert Buell was, right? He's He's this monster that is dressing
00:59:06
himself in sheep's clothing every day and going out into the world and fooling everybody into thinking that he's
00:59:11
something that he's not, that he's a good guy. And he's one of the one of the worst that I can think of. And I know
00:59:17
some people enjoy solved cases. We enjoyed solved cases too. And we think you can learn a lot from them.
00:59:24
It's just really difficult when you're when people are suggesting cases that we feel like if we add to the platform
00:59:31
and and talk to the listeners about that we might get some movement on it. And so sometimes it's hard
00:59:38
Um sometimes we need to do a solved case to to make us feel better about the whole process and to to remind ourselves
00:59:46
that these things these cases that seem sometimes like they'll never get solved eventually one
00:59:52
day do. At least that's some justice. At least that's some closure. So yeah. What a year.
01:00:03
Seems like it flew by. And one more year in the books and uh one more year to go, I guess. That's
01:00:09
right. And many more. Yeah. Uh thank you everybody for listening in 2021 and we look forward to
01:00:19
to all that can be great in 2022. So many great memories with you guys this year 2021.
01:00:57
I look forward to so many cases being solved in 2022. Colonel, do we have any recommended
01:01:04
reading for the beautiful listeners? Yes, but only for the beautiful listeners. If you're not a beautiful
01:01:09
listener, you can just check out right now. We will be recommending this week A Killer by Design: Murders, Mindhunters,
01:01:16
and My Quest to Decipher the Criminal Mind by the great Ann Burgess. And for those of you that have been
01:01:23
long-time listeners or even recent listeners, you may go, "What? Colonel, you recommended that
01:01:28
in December of last year." Well, you're right and I'm recommending it again just
01:01:32
in case you didn't pay attention. That is A Killer by Design by Ann Burgess and the reason why we're recommending it
01:01:40
again is the Off the Record listeners know that very recently we just released a conversation that I had with the great
01:01:48
Ann Burgess. So, make sure you check out her new book and check out our other show Off the Record. It's available on
01:01:54
Stitcher Premium. If you want to find out how you can listen for free, I believe for a whole month for free, to
01:02:00
Off the Record and dozens of other great shows on Stitcher Premium, go to our website truecrimegarage.com
01:02:06
and you'll find the link there. Yes, and until next week, be good, be kind. And don't litter.