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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:48
with me as always is a man that would like to remind you that organized crime is harder than it looks here is the
00:01:55
captain yeah I'm stripping these cars like Tim Riggins it's good to be seen and good to see see you thanks for
00:02:01
listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend we are loving our selection for today's show today in the garage we are
00:02:13
drinking Clockwork by our good friends over at Brew dog Clockwork is a tangerine infused IPA brewed right here
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in Ohio this is an oldtime favorite that is back for a limited time so don't delay because you will want to stock up
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now this is a fierce Tangerine IPA that is hoppy and features honey Aromas garage grade 4 and 3/4 bottle caps out
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of five and let's give some praise and thanks to our friends for helping us fill up our fridge for this week first
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up a big shout out to Sam and Freddy listening in beautiful Denver and last but certainly not least we have a double
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fisted cheers that goes out to Minnie and Michelle from Morgantown West Virginia everyone we just mentioned
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captain they went to our website True Crime garage.com and clicked on the Pint glass
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helped us out and for that we thank you yeah BW R beer run if you need more True
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Crime garage for your earballs we have bonus content through the Apple podcast app all you have to do is subscribe it's
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5.95 per month and it really goes long way to supporting the garage flying garage ship and Colonel that's enough of
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the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:35
[Music] crime this week's episode takes us to Germany as we examine one of Europe's
00:03:58
most mysterious C cases a young nursing student froa Lees left a pub after watching a FIFA World
00:04:09
Cup game with friends and goes missing what makes this case so mysterious is the fact that she was
00:04:17
heard from but was never seen again for a week there was communication on more than one occasion
00:04:28
she called or text her roommate in fact there was at least one communic nearly every day for a
00:04:38
week some more terrifying than others all of this culminating into one very loud and scary end to the phone
00:04:48
calls that her family prayed for each day and then there was silence and then and
00:05:01
death froa Le's body was eventually found in a remote area called the death grounds in some of the communications
00:05:11
the young woman didn't seem like herself was it really her and regardless why did the
00:05:20
communication stop was this when she was killed and just exactly who placed her body on the death
00:05:30
grounds this is true crime garage and this is the case of froa [Music] [Music] leaves froa leaves was born February
00:05:55
21st 1985 she grew up in Lebec a small town of just about 26,000 people in Northern
00:06:04
Germany she attended primary school and high school where she studied education froch's nature was that of a helper so
00:06:12
whenever possible she was the type of person that she was always helping others helping other people even those
00:06:19
she didn't know after school she did a one-year internship at an institution for the disabled after this she decided
00:06:30
to move to a larger City and study nursing so she would have a wider range of job opportunities so she moved to a
00:06:38
city called pbor or pbor I've heard it pronounced both ways this Captain is a city that is located about an hour and
00:06:47
10 to an hour and 15 minutes away from her hometown so it's not like she's moving clear across the country she's
00:06:56
moving to a somewhat nearby City froa made the move in October of 2005 and at that time she was 21 years old she was
00:07:07
leaving behind her family of four her mother father sister and brother all who would play key roles in our True Crime
00:07:15
Story later of course when they are trying to locate their loved one and it's not like she was moving to an
00:07:22
unknown City to herself or that she had no connections there she was going to be
00:07:27
moving in with a a lifelong friend not moving there completely on her own as you said Captain she's
00:07:34
already established a place to live and this she would be sharing an apartment in pbor with Christos Coralis so
00:07:43
Christos went to school with froa back in their Hometown and they had been in a relationship back when they were both
00:07:52
teenagers they broke up after four years together but remained really good typ friends froa dated someone else after
00:08:00
Chris but that had run its course as well and when she moved to pbor she was unattached so she and Chris shared an
00:08:09
apartment at borer Strauss 56 that's the address each of them with their own bedrooms but they would do a lot of
00:08:18
things together here Captain they would grocery shop together socialize somewhat
00:08:23
together and cooked and hung out together sometimes but each was busy with his or her own life their own
00:08:31
schedule their own friends and their studies right Chris had a girlfriend that he was seeing at the time and froa
00:08:38
had a Social Circle of her own froa had only been in pbor for about nine months when our true crime tale picks up during
00:08:49
that time she was studying nursing at St Vincent's Hospital froo was very outgoing and a confident young woman she
00:08:59
was liked by everyone because of her giving nature her friendliness and her acceptance of all types of people she
00:09:07
made some really good friends through her nursing program and enjoyed going to pubs and clubs she was a people person
00:09:15
who loved being around others yeah only in the city for 9 months but developed some relationships close relationships
00:09:23
because one she treated everybody like they were a friend but it's a lot easier to move to a city if you have one a job
00:09:32
you're going to meet friends at that through that job and especially when you're going to school with like-minded
00:09:39
individuals you're going to create a lot of relationships in a small amount of time one thing that I think is key here
00:09:47
that we should discuss and this is something that we know about froa this according to
00:09:52
all they say that she was not the type to go home with someone that she did not know
00:09:59
it's well reported that she was intimate only with men if she was in a relationship with them a long-term
00:10:06
relationship with them when we get to the details of The Disappearance it will be clear why we went out of our way to
00:10:15
mention that here now something that could have direct ties to her disappearance she had a constant online
00:10:22
presence under her moniker sweet Corey in fact she met a lot of her friends that that way on various sites on the
00:10:31
internet froch's mom said her daughter always had her phone in her hand and that texting was her number one hobby
00:10:40
later the lead investigator on her case his name Ralph Osterman would say she chatted with God and the World online
00:10:51
and his team has always suspected that her killer may have come across her there yep we said killer that's because
00:11:00
unfortunately froa was killed at the young age of just 21 years old but first weird stuff almost hardto believe stuff
00:11:11
happened in this case let's go through the events leading up to her disappearance this puts us at Tuesday
00:11:18
June 20th 2006 and we have ingred who is fr's mom she came to town to take froa to dinner Chris the roommate joined them
00:11:31
and the three went to a cafe froch's schoolmate and friend her name is Isabella text her at some point saying
00:11:39
that her and some friends had a sweet spot at a local pub and the football games were on that year Germany was
00:11:48
hosting the World Cup and Germans like most people in the smart countries love to go to pubs drink beer and watch
00:11:56
football no matter the definition of applied to the name of the sport Germany had won its match earlier that day they
00:12:05
defeated Ecuador 3 to nil but the Sweden England match was scheduled for that night so after ingred left Chris dropped
00:12:17
froa off at the pub where Isabella and the other friends were this is The Old Triangle Irish pub in laori gallery
00:12:28
neighborhood of perb Chris then went home now Chris for whatever reason did not have his apartment key on him so he
00:12:38
took froch's key after dropping her off the arrangements were set he told froa he would wait up for her and let her in
00:12:47
since the external door to the building would be locked now this something this is something captain that
00:12:54
might seem odd to people here in the states that he drove to the cafe with the mom had dinner drops her off and
00:13:04
then needs to take her key to the apartment because here in the states we typically put our house and Apartment
00:13:10
keys on our key ring with our keys to our cars or our vehicles MH there they walk a lot of places and more often than
00:13:20
not we'll walk so it wouldn't be terribly uncommon to keep your keys separate he left his key at the
00:13:28
apartment needed to take hers and said he would wait up for her when she returned later that night and probably
00:13:36
because Germany was hosting the World Cup that more Germans were just more excited about any matchup and this Pub
00:13:45
was packed and it was pretty Rowdy for this event and Germany was one of the favorites that year they were one of the
00:13:52
better teams that year so there were high expectations for the Germany team the crowd at at the pub like the captain
00:14:00
said they're having a good time it's a loud crowd they're engaged in the game froa is having fun with her friends but
00:14:08
she's also madly texting some guy named Neil and remember we have everybody telling us especially her mother ingred
00:14:18
said texting was her number one hobby right so she's at the party but busy on the phone we all know that person this
00:14:27
would have drove me nuts I would have said get off your phone pay attention to the game be present be
00:14:33
present in the moment I I hate it when you're trying to visit with somebody and they're just texting away it's it's a
00:14:40
sign of I don't want to be there I don't want to be hanging out with you well in
00:14:45
her defense we'll say you know it's Sweden versus England maybe her head's not in the game she's there being social
00:14:53
but the person that she's texting is this guy named Neil and this is somebody that was recently introduced to her so
00:15:01
maybe she had an interest in pursuing Neils and this was somebody that in fact her friend Isabella who we already
00:15:10
mentioned introduced the two of them just a few weeks earlier so it's not somebody that she just met online she
00:15:16
has met this person in person through a friend through a good friend and it sounds like Isabella knew this knels for
00:15:23
quite some time before making the introduction between the two and according to Isabella she thought that
00:15:30
Neils and froa hit it off real well and stating that their relationship was just
00:15:38
as friends at this point in our timeline now Neils was actually working a late shift that night so he couldn't be there
00:15:46
in person froo was trying to get him to come to the pub after his shift but he had plans to go out with a friend to
00:15:55
shoot some pull after this texting what we have here Captain she's on the phone so much I don't know how much
00:16:03
battery life she showed up to the pub with but all this activity on her phone during the soccer match kills her
00:16:10
phone's battery so her friend Isabella gives her her phone battery so she can continue to text the two shared the same
00:16:19
common model of Nokia phone remember nokas were pretty popular in the early 2000s froa continued texting Neil after
00:16:29
getting the new battery and even other people now one thing we got to be clear here is we know that her and Neils were
00:16:36
texting back and forth that night law enforcement has said that froo was texting
00:16:43
others we have never received information as to who those others were right um we don't know
00:16:52
if it was a whole bunch of other people one other person all we are told is that
00:16:56
it was Neils and others during that game the game wraps up around 1100 p.m. and I
00:17:04
question this time a little bit uh but not not big time I bet you it's a little after 11: p.m. and we'll get into that
00:17:11
very quickly so froa after the game she's going to want to get home and she even indicated to her
00:17:21
friends that she wanted to get home fairly quickly because she did not want Chris to have to wait up for her until
00:17:28
the we hours right because he's got to wait up and let her in so she leaves after telling her
00:17:36
friends that she's going home on foot by herself that night and as we know unfortunately she never made it home
00:17:46
well something that we need to probably explain a little bit because bar culture
00:17:51
in America is a lot different than Pub culture over in Europe and I can't speak highly of uh or I can't speak that
00:18:01
intelligently on the pub culture in Germany as it's probably different than England but in England a lot of pubs
00:18:08
close at 11:00 p.m. 12:00 p.m. they don't stay open until the wi hours of the morning so this is not froch's final
00:18:19
communication with a friend or a family member as we talked about in today's trailer so at 12:49 a.m. on June 21st
00:18:30
she sent a text to her roommate Chris the text says I will be home later the game was fun not against England smiley
00:18:40
face emoji i l y VM see you later so this text according to Chris makes total sense because he says
00:18:53
that previously the two discussed that they were hoping that Germany would not have to play
00:19:00
England in the first round right as it got later and later and froa not arriving home to the
00:19:12
apartment he tried to stay up he he he wanted to stay up and let his roommate in eventually he has to go to bed but
00:19:19
before so he tries to call her on her phone and gets no answer So eventually he decides to go to sleep with his
00:19:27
bedroom door open hoping that if she does arrive later than planned that he would hear the doorbell wake up and he
00:19:34
could let her in and I don't think we have details of this call because right when I hear that oh while the roommate
00:19:42
trying to call her did it go right to voicemail I'm guessing that it didn't just for the fact that it's never
00:19:53
mentioned it just he placed a call she didn't answer correct and what we do have here this is one thing that's
00:20:02
tricky about this case is that the information regarding the text and the calls a lot of that's coming from the
00:20:13
persons that either received the call or the text or attempted to place a call right rather than law enforcement so
00:20:21
what we have here you're exactly right Captain he may have tried more than once to call her but according to what Chris
00:20:27
has told everyone he tried to call her we don't know how many times and his simple statement is that he got no
00:20:34
answer So eventually he decides to go to bed hoping she would ring the door he would let her in that never happens the
00:20:42
next morning Chris's phone rang and he's hoping it's his roommate but it's not it's Isabella her friend looking for
00:20:51
froa right this because froa did not show up for class that morning at 8:00 a.m. so Chris is going to investigate he
00:21:00
finds fr's bed made and her room looked to be untouched and he didn't hear her come in that night knowing that she
00:21:07
would be locked out he quickly figures out she never came home and he says this is incredibly well out of character for
00:21:16
his roommate so this puts Chris into like instant panic mode he starts calling around he calls froch's family remember
00:21:25
he he had a relationship with her she's his roommate he went to dinner with her and her mother the night before
00:21:33
he knows her family well so he calls ingred froch's mother and says look your daughter didn't come home last night I'm
00:21:42
worried her friend Isabella who I dropped her off with last night call says that froa didn't show up for school
00:21:48
this morning right I'm character for exactly and Mom's now worried too because they both agree this is not
00:21:57
normal for my daughter this is not normal for my roommate and this is why the question of when she left the pub
00:22:05
becomes very important because if she would have left right after 11 it doesn't take her that long to get
00:22:14
back to our apartment so you get this text almost you know closer to 1:00 a.m. saying I'm
00:22:22
going to be home soon so then you go well if she left about 11: you got a 2hour Gap there in time exactly and
00:22:32
here's the thing too what we have here is we have Mom and roommate springing into action immediately we like to see
00:22:40
this in these cases and we even have the two of them calling around this is you know they're calling even hospitals to
00:22:47
see if maybe she was involved in some kind of accident or or or whatever Mom decides hey I'm going to
00:22:54
call the local police force and report my daughter missing and she doesn't get the best information
00:23:03
that she wants right first they're saying you know you you need to call the area where she's missing from and number
00:23:09
two she's not been missing for very long she's an adult she has the right to stay
00:23:12
out all night and not come home to her apartment she doesn't even live with you guys and so ingred decides to take it up
00:23:20
a notch Crank It Up to 11 she called a friend a personal friend on a local police force who then called an
00:23:30
acquaintance on the pbor police so now we have pbor who they're going to kind of work it a little bit kind of work it
00:23:39
on the DL um but all everything that they did that day checking any accidents reports and
00:23:49
so on it turns up nothing so again we have family and friends who are ready to spring into
00:23:57
action they actually start putting up Flyers later that very day uh and these are just Flyers saying you know asking
00:24:06
for information you know call us if you if you've seen her or if you know where she could be but Captain I think you're
00:24:14
honing in on something and and I like the cut of your jib there boy uh let's examine what we can about froa walk home
00:24:24
that night The Old Triangle was located in the inner city part of pbor whereas her apartment was south of that so just
00:24:34
about 1.5 km so less than a mile away right there were essentially two routes that
00:24:42
she could have taken on foot I guess three if you were going to count like one side road which would lead to one of
00:24:49
the main roads that she would have taken but two primary routes and a possible third but so the first would be via
00:24:58
labori Berg cutting over to wakin Strauss so this is about 1.3 km it's estimated to be approximately a
00:25:08
16-minute walking time the second was exclusively via that very hard word to say Road wakin
00:25:17
Strauss also 1.3 kilomet again about 16 minutes just to be clear we don't need people sending us emails or comments on
00:25:28
mispronunciations of any of these locations uh we're doing the best we can and being as respectful as we can as we
00:25:37
are just to dumb idiots in the garage well I don't know that we're dumb idiots but we are two garage guys that
00:25:44
certainly yes we are flunked out a German in high school I did not actually flunk out I did take a one semester I
00:25:53
did not take any semesters the third route Captain was via wood fried Strauss this was the longest of the
00:26:02
three potential routes that she could have taken this is 1.6 kilm with an estimated walking time of 20 minutes so
00:26:10
exactly what the captain pointed out just a few seconds ago right that this would have been a relatively quick walk
00:26:19
we have an estimated walking time of 16 to 20 minutes so let's highlight a couple of items
00:26:26
here before we move on the approximate time of froa leaving the pub according to our notes is sometime
00:26:35
after 11:00 p.m. that text to Chris her roommate comes through at 12:49 a.m. remember we
00:26:43
just mapped out 16 to 20 minutes walking time for froa there's a big gap there between that text that comes in
00:26:54
and the time that she left the pub even even if let's say at the far stretch of it right friend saying that
00:27:03
she left sometime after 11 nobody says she left at midnight or after midnight I would believe that that would indicate
00:27:11
that this is closer to 11:00 p.m. 11:10 11:15 p.m. not closer to midnight but let's say by some crazy chance that
00:27:23
leaving after 11:00 p.m. to them ended up meaning 11:59 p.m. mhm it still would would not take
00:27:34
her you know it still would not take her 50 minutes to walk from that Pub to her
00:27:39
apartment it would take 16 to 20 minutes well no and again it wouldn't take like
00:27:44
you said it wouldn't take 50 minutes for her to walk back home but also if you got back home in 50 minutes you wouldn't
00:27:51
be texting at your doorstep hey I'm going to be home soon correct so we have a few options here of what could have
00:27:59
gone down one maybe the eyewitnesses were just completely wrong and it was past midnight closer to one that seems
00:28:10
unlikely to me or was there a pub on this route that maybe she could have stopped at maybe she had some friends at
00:28:17
maybe she knew some of the workers there but we have no evidence that that happened what we do have evidence of is
00:28:26
all night she's trying to get a gentleman to come out and see her he already has plans so it makes me wonder
00:28:34
did she decide I'm going to go meet up with him for just a little bit and then I'll head home so what we have here
00:28:41
Captain is on the short side of it we are missing about 30 minutes of time and to the great extent of it it would be 1
00:28:51
hour and 45 minutes that is missing from our timeline here that are unaccounted for for our victim so much more to dive
00:29:00
into with this case and so much more communication through the phone let's get back into this after this quick beer
00:29:09
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00:32:00
cheers to you Colonel cheers Captain cheers to the people in the sides and the back
00:32:08
now what has to be said about this case is that the police were slow to take the
00:32:14
case on part of that is precisely because of the factors that make this case so intriguing we have
00:32:22
communications from the victim who at the time is just simply missing and may not be a victim at all as far as
00:32:30
law enforcement is concerned or there's no evidence to suggest that she's a victim of any type of Foul Play so we
00:32:38
have these communications that for the most part do not seem to indicate Foul Play but those who know froa say
00:32:46
differently the family and Chris her roommate told the police that froo was reaching out in apparent distress now
00:32:54
not from this first communication but we're going to see a additional ones that we are going to get into real
00:33:00
quick but because the police were not involved in the investigation the calls unfortunately were not recorded and thus
00:33:08
had to be reconstructed from memory we need to point out here captain that different Publications in Germany
00:33:16
have different wording but we are going to do the very best to give you the gist of what was
00:33:22
said well right and again we know with eyewitness reports there's going to be some level of error and that happens
00:33:29
also when you're a ear witness right they're again they're giving these statements off of memory because there
00:33:37
is no recording the text different situation that's easy to to research and and figure out the wording so froa is
00:33:45
gone for months before her body is found but for about the first week that she is gone there are
00:33:55
these what could be deed deed as somewhat normal somewhat abnormal and somewhat cryptic Communications via
00:34:03
calls and text from froa before the silence most of the communications were with her friend and roommate Chris so
00:34:14
let's go through this communication timeline here June 20th sometime after 11:00 p.m. she leaves the pub June 21st
00:34:25
12:49 a.m. there's a text sent this is the one that we've already discussed saying I will be home later
00:34:33
the game was fun then Captain we have nothing until roughly 45 half hours later so a lot of time
00:34:43
goes by this is when we got family and friends putting up posters they're looking for her they're calling people
00:34:50
trying to locate froa they get nothing but what they do get is 452 hours after after that text that came to
00:34:59
Chris there's a phone call this is on June 22nd Chris was at his father's house when his phone rang at
00:35:09
10:25 p.m. it was froa she says hello Christos I wanted to say that I am fine and that I'll be home
00:35:20
soon tell Mom and Dad and the others she hung up immediately Chris did not have an
00:35:27
opportunity to ask froa any questions about where she was or what she was up to or why she's been gone for so
00:35:35
long Chris who arguably knew froa better than anyone else at the time was alarmed by this brief call and
00:35:46
he went on to tell the media and law enforcement that for one part of it he he said that froa didn't sound like
00:35:53
herself she was speaking in a very monotone voice her voice was very flat he said that she was usually very
00:36:04
animated and she called him kristos which he says rarely happened that froo would
00:36:13
usually call him Chris and only used kristos when she was angry at him yeah it makes me wonder if this was a
00:36:23
recorded message I think that's a good point I I think what we may have here Captain is the chance that this could be
00:36:31
either like you said a recorded message or if she's being watched and maybe a script was laid out for her
00:36:40
right and any variation of this script that I've I I'm telling you that you can you can say we're going to have a big
00:36:50
problem and we can't it's difficult for us to sit here in the garage and have any clue what the repercussions of that
00:36:56
that may be so yeah and and a couple things here if if you're kristos is you're one
00:37:04
you're going okay weird interaction or lack of interaction on the phone but you know people go missing maybe she went to
00:37:15
a friend's house you know maybe there was an accident maybe something happened I'll get the answers later tonight when
00:37:22
I get home but but you definitely think that there' be some red flags popping up in
00:37:29
his mind oh yeah big time red flags and so he is immediately alarmed by this call I it's weird right because there's
00:37:37
got to be some relief balanced by that of alarm there's relief because she finally called she's
00:37:45
been missing now for like we said almost 48 hours almost two days but alarm because she doesn't sound
00:37:52
like herself and she's to me when I review that call it doesn't make any sense to
00:37:58
me and I and we can get into to the wording of everything but the actions that happen immediately is Chris calling
00:38:08
froch's family and he's like look I just received this call immediately they're telling him
00:38:14
look we understand why she would call you first and not us right because you're the
00:38:21
roommate uh we are harder to get a hold of than kristos is and she was last in communication with you she likely would
00:38:30
be the first one to see you would she return and on top of that they live in another city yeah he's local exactly so
00:38:41
he he tries to relay best he can what the wording of the call was and why he was alarmed by the call and they agreed
00:38:50
that they too were concerned about the call so now the the family fr's family and Chris they all gathered together at
00:39:01
the apartment at fr's apartment to wait for her after all she said she'd be home
00:39:08
soon and unfortunately again she never arrives of course they're trying to call her cell right but those calls were not
00:39:17
answered and there's I don't think there's a lot of details on on when they started trying to call her
00:39:24
cuz look if I talk to somebody I thought the interaction was strange or there wasn't interaction on the phone I might
00:39:31
try to text that individual or call them right back but there's no indication that that happened there's also no
00:39:37
indication that that did not happen right so what I think here is likely that I mean that we we are told that
00:39:43
there are several calls placed to herself cell by multiple people after that phone
00:39:48
call look if you talk to a friend on the phone and they they they call and give you two they've been missing for 2 days
00:39:57
and give you two sentences and then hang up and don't even say goodbye I think I'm calling back right
00:40:02
away right so let's review this real quick hello kristos I wanted to say I am fine and that I'll be home soon tell Mom
00:40:11
and Dad and the others hang up yeah here's my thing about the the Christos right she doesn't call him that but
00:40:21
if okay let's just say she's she's at this point we we believe that she was kidnapped right correct I do yeah so the
00:40:30
kidnapper is saying who are we going to call we got to call somebody oh we can call my friend Christos and that's
00:40:38
probably what she would tell a stranger his name right she' use his full name she's not going to tell a
00:40:46
stranger you know well his name is Christos but I actually call him Chris and it or it could be by Design on
00:40:54
her part to say yeah we're going to call Christos I'm going to use the term Christos cuz it's going to spark a red
00:41:01
flag in his brain of why is she calling me by my full name I think you're see that's where I think you're exactly
00:41:07
right Captain because we know she's a smart young woman you know she's educated uh she's hardworking we know
00:41:16
that she's personable she's outgoing so she's probably a fairly good communicator what I'm getting at here is
00:41:25
that those two sentences make no sense I get what Chris is saying she called me Christos that's weird but one thing here
00:41:35
that is a possibility is is he saved is his is his contact information saved in her phone under kristos and not Chris
00:41:44
right and if this message that she's giving is scripted by someone else as you pointed out they would not
00:41:53
know that she calls him Chris they would only know that when her phone rang 40 you know hours ago when she was late
00:42:02
getting home never came home and he starts calling her phone it kept coming up kristos kept coming up kristos if you
00:42:09
are trying to hide something or if you are trying to scrub the trail and do that by
00:42:18
communicating the person you're going to reach out to is the person that was calling
00:42:22
repeatedly the night that you abducted this young woman yeah and the person that they last had text communication
00:42:30
with I'll be home shortly here's the other thing too the last sentence tell Mom and Dad and the
00:42:38
others I'll be home soon tell Mom and Dad and the others if I'm talking to my friend uhuh I'm saying tell my mom and
00:42:48
dad and the others if I'm talking to my brother or sister I would say tell Mom and Dad and
00:42:55
the others right because we share the mother and the father I to me it it almost looks like a
00:43:03
couple things not just that the the person that that scripted this didn't not know to call him Chris
00:43:14
but also may have made an assumption that they were that was her brother right so there there's a bunch of things
00:43:21
here and and when we cross reference this communication yes this is a phone call and the prior communication 45 A2
00:43:30
hours earlier was a text but in that text Captain that to me seems like that's her right there's the inside joke
00:43:39
or the inside mention uh reference to hey something we talked about earlier England winning we didn't or England
00:43:47
tying I believe they ended up tying that game right but uh enjoyed the game all of that seems like like very personable
00:43:56
stuff some of it even personable between her and kristos where this almost seems
00:44:03
very disconnected from froa life and Christos their relationship like the person that put these words together
00:44:11
does not fully understand the meaning of their relationship yeah but R riddle me this
00:44:18
Batman if you're the kidnapper why let her have any communication at all that's a good question because that's a psych
00:44:26
that I cannot sit here and claim to have an understanding of because if you were
00:44:31
trying to buy some time right you make the call earlier in the day and you go okay well I'm going to be
00:44:39
home shortly I'll be home this evening so now you got this time period where people are going to be waiting oh she
00:44:45
made Communications she's going to be home the early evening comes we can't find her we'll wait a little bit longer
00:44:52
okay now we start Comm trying to contact her phone but it's so late that it's like well I'm
00:44:58
going to be home shortly it's now a very small window that if she doesn't return
00:45:03
home you're questioning this call anyways but but I don't see what the purpose for the kidnapper would be other
00:45:11
than some like that's why when we came back from the break I pointed out the communications because what we do know
00:45:20
happened in this case the police were slow to get involved because of these communications right so if that was the
00:45:28
purpose of the abductor allowing this to happen job well done it [ __ ] worked it worked and then now let's go
00:45:38
back to the to the sick end of end of it the psychosis end of it Larry Jean Bell
00:45:43
who we talked serial killer that we talked about talked to John Douglas about he abducted two different girls
00:45:51
and for his own pleasure allowed them to communicate with their family members in fact he
00:45:58
communicated with their family members in conversation so it could either be to throw the cops off so they don't get
00:46:06
involved like we know happened here or it could just be some kind of sick fetish some kind of sadistic
00:46:15
torture that this person chose to roll out on this victim yeah it's a it's a mind it's a mind F situation
00:46:26
yeah and I also think maybe you have this person you kidnapped them they're now a prisoner and you're trying to show
00:46:35
them some good faith I keep telling you if you just do what I ask you to you'll live right mhm so in good
00:46:45
faith you you did what I asked you to do I'm going to let you call home right you
00:46:50
have a hostage situation what happens we need you to you got you got 20 people held host
00:46:56
we need you to send out one oh you you want us to send in food and uh you know this or that on
00:47:04
your list of Demands well we need something in trade we need you to send out uh two hostages and we'll give you
00:47:10
this and I think we talked about this a little bit in the Oakland County child killer case remember in that case one
00:47:18
thing that people were fascinated by is that all of the victims when they were recovered it was reported that they were
00:47:24
clean even though they had been missing for days and days and days that they were clean and appeared to be
00:47:30
wellfed I've always believed in that case and we know that there's a huge sexual element to that case I've always
00:47:39
believed that whatever was being done to those victims part of it may have been in
00:47:45
trade saying okay yeah I look I don't want to have to fight you or force you to do this but I will if I have to but
00:47:54
if you if you make it easy on me well you'll get pizza for dinner you'll get to take a
00:48:01
shower uh you'll get clean clothes yeah you'll be able to make contact with the loved one in this situation like you
00:48:09
said it may be that they have promised look I I know that you don't want to be here I know
00:48:16
that I'm holding you against your will I know that I'm doing things to you that you do not like that are horrible but if
00:48:23
you don't make this any more difficult called than it has to be I will let you live and proof of that is
00:48:31
oh here's here's the little you know just like you give a dog a treat here's the little treat the little reward quick
00:48:38
phone call to your roommate or quick phone call to person who was calling you two days
00:48:44
ago this is proof of of of my word of my handshake that yes I will let you go if
00:48:49
you don't make this any more difficult than it has to be one it could be also all three happening at the same time yep
00:48:58
you know I'm going to make this deal with you but I kind of get off on the idea of you making contact anyways but
00:49:06
I'm going to control that situation too and by controlling that situation and having you do what I say there's a a
00:49:12
type of um gratification or there's some type of enjoyment that I get out of controlling that situation and also
00:49:20
maybe this puts the the police off for a little bit okay great that gives me some
00:49:24
more time because the more especially with a kidnapped victim you're going to keep that victim
00:49:35
in your possession as long as you feel that you're safe and that nobody's on to you you don't have to get to the end of
00:49:45
do I release her or do do I kill her and have to dispose of her you don't have to
00:49:49
get to that crossroads until you feel ental a sense of urgency or a sense of uh or or the fear of being caught
00:50:04
grows even more if that makes any sense so one of the and this is very this is hardly ever reported on but one of the
00:50:14
items we we've talked on this show about extensively about when John Douglas and Robert wrestler would go
00:50:23
travel around the country and interview these different serial offenders serial killers who have been apprehended some
00:50:32
of them in you know locked up for years and they would interview them for hours and one thing that they learned from a
00:50:41
lot of The Killers the serial killers were things that the serial killer was trying to improve on with each victim
00:50:50
what he was learning from the first victim the mistakes he made and ways that he could make the experience better
00:50:58
for him with victim number two and make it less likely for him to get caught with victim number two or anything that
00:51:06
anything he thought was too risky with victim one of course they're trying to learn that but one thing that is very
00:51:15
scary that some of the serial killers this would be the sadist that said this to wrestler and
00:51:23
Douglas one thing they were trying to learn or one thing they were surprised of with victim number
00:51:31
one is it they thought they died too quickly or died too easily some of the things they wanted to do to the victim
00:51:39
they weren't able to do to them because they died in the course of the torture and they were trying to learn
00:51:48
how they could torture the victim longer before they died and so that's one thing
00:51:58
that we could be seeing here as well because what we do know about this case is that she unfortunately whatever was
00:52:06
going on whatever was happening she unfortunately was alive there's no disputing that for about a week after
00:52:13
she disappeared now Ralph Osterman who we've already talked about the he would be the lead investigator on this case he
00:52:22
would later say that this is when the the the family became aware that she was being held hostage
00:52:32
that's when they first firmly believe that you know what this is confirmation of her being held hostage she calls with
00:52:38
a two- sentence call and hangs up and the the call doesn't make sense and and she's not responding to our calls right
00:52:48
well again it's like the two lines I'm not that worried about it's the fact that there's it's not a
00:52:57
communication it's not there's no interaction right that's so bizarre I mean could you imagine you this person
00:53:05
has been missing for a couple days you've been worried sick now they're talking to you and and you say something
00:53:13
and they just hang up the phone that's I mean that that' be very difficult the TV stations started showing fro
00:53:25
photo at this time and the police they spoke with everyone that they could think of this would be
00:53:35
froch's friends co-workers and schoolmates to see if she could possibly have left town with any of them they
00:53:43
spoke with everyone that was at the pub that night they they did their best to track all of them down and talk to them
00:53:51
they go out and they speak with Neils the the newish friend that she had and he says that he has no idea
00:53:59
where froa could be on Friday June 23rd at 11:04 p.m. Chris receives a text from
00:54:08
froch's phone this text says I'm coming back home today I'm in pbor or pbor Chris got no response when he texts
00:54:19
her back he again tells fr's family that he received a text saying that she's coming home fr's brother Frank hearing
00:54:29
that her phone was back on he tries calling her and she picked up well and see here
00:54:39
here's what I wonder too is so she again makes a short call statement I I'm I'm in pbor I'm coming
00:54:49
home almost implying that she was somewhere else I was in another city now I'm here coming home and I'm guessing
00:54:58
that there was extensive amounts of calls back to her phone to the point where somebody said I got to let her
00:55:08
answer yeah this is her brother Frank and here's how he remembers the call Frank says that he said froa where are
00:55:16
you what are you doing when are you coming home froo responds I'm coming home today not too late I'm in pbor or
00:55:23
pbor don't ask ask I will be coming home Frank then says where are you froa says
00:55:30
I can't say and then she hangs up the phone and he would say her brother would say that she
00:55:38
sounded normal alert but cryptic almost like she's yeah somebody's watching her yeah and so now we have the family who
00:55:50
they wait in her apartment all night long again nothing again I think some of this stuff comes
00:56:04
down to maybe the kidnapper thought he was going to let her go but he again wasn't at that crossroads yet and you
00:56:14
once you get to that crossroads then you have to he has to then fully decide he has to fully commit if I let her
00:56:22
go what are the chances that this comes back to me and the police are still not heavily
00:56:29
involved in this case but what we have at this time is remember we have her picture that's being broadcast on
00:56:40
news stations and we have the police who are issuing a statement asking froa to please contact her
00:56:50
family the next call was to the roommate again again to Chris this takes place on June
00:56:58
24th at 2:22 p.m. so this is 2 days after her first call to Chris this is two days after and one day
00:57:11
after the communication via text to Chris and the uh phone call from her brother
00:57:19
so note this is the only communication in the series that takes place during day day time hours all the other calls
00:57:27
in text so far have been late at night and this call is again to the roommate and it's froa saying I'm not
00:57:37
coming back so late I come home tonight Chris says are you hurt froa says no I'm in pbor I'm in peror I'm in
00:57:48
pbor and then hangs up the phone and of course anybody's going to think that this is weird why would would
00:57:55
anybody mention the city per born three times in a row but of course Chris and froa family they're saying that they
00:58:03
believe that this was some type of message that she's trying to to deliver some type of message to
00:58:11
them Chris did um sorry Chris did describe fr's voice as sound blurry is the word that he
00:58:27
used and by this I'm wondering if he means that she was slurring her words or sounded sleepy something of that nature
00:58:37
right or or is he talking about the connection again the the big misstep here is that police are not involved
00:58:48
they're not involved it seems like because of these communications which is ridiculous and so nobody's recording
00:58:54
these calls to me these communications that are strange is an indication that we should
00:59:01
be involved if if this girl goes missing and a couple days later they're getting
00:59:07
these weird Communications with the family at this point it's it's even more hands on deck because look people call
00:59:19
all the time hey uh a family member of ours didn't show up to school today it's very unlike them
00:59:26
please go okay well we'll take a note of this but hey if you make contact with her or she shows up please let us know
00:59:34
and a high percentage of missing person cases That's How It Ends couple hours later they find the person open and shut
00:59:45
case but what doesn't happen that often is these weird cryptic Communications so if the family then
00:59:55
calls and says hey you know remember when we told you our our loved one didn't show up for school well a couple
01:00:01
days later we get this weird call from her and we've had weird Communications with her if I'm law enforcement to me
01:00:09
I'm going ding ding ding dingding this person is now endangered they're in a dangerous
01:00:18
situation all hands on deck because we still H at this point we know that she's alive we have the
01:00:27
possibility if we find her we could save her and it's almost like in this case law enforcement did the
01:00:35
[Music] opposite want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage and sharing these cases on social media and
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