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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for [Music] details [Music] welcome welcome to True Crime garage
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wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that just
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got back from having lunch with Richard Simmons he is the captain thank you thank you thank you for some of us it's
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good to be seen and it's good to see you how's our good friend old Richard doing
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well he's not happy with [Music] you let the River Run Red Captain tonight we are drinking the hunt Red Ale
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by these fantastic people first up a big thank you to Michelle down in Clearwater
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that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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[Music] cry [Music] this is true crime garage and this is the case of the boys on the
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[Music] tracks [Music] [Music] [Music] by all accounts the engineer did a masterful job of bringing his train to a
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stop it had taken a screaming screeching half mile by the time the engine had shuttered to a standstill conductor
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Jerry Tomlin was on the radio notifying an approaching train on a parallel track
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to stop because some boys had been run over he had also called the dispatcher have you got injuries the
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dispatcher asked no Tomlin said we've got death I'm sure we've got death they passed under us it has to be
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death it has to has to be death it has it has to be [Music] de 400 a.m. August 23rd
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1987 this is a Sunday in Arkansas there's a train traveling north from Tex Arana this train is about a mile long
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pulling mostly Freight but some empty cars as well the Train's headlight is set to the bright position the crew
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would later say that it was particularly dark that night the Train's engineer this is Steven Shyer and the conductor
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Jerry Tomlin notice a dark spot on the tracks now any debris on the tracks of course is a big concern they can see a
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flash of light from this dark spot the Train's headlights beam it must have hit something metal or something that
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reflected the light back to them when the train was approximately 100 ft away from the dark spot engineer Shyer yelled
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out oh my God and he hit the whistle in the emergency break at the same time this is because they could tell that
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there were two young men laying on the tracks between the rails they could also tell that there was a gun lying next to
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them they could tell that there was something covering the boys from their waist to their knees both boys were
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between the rails with their heads up against the West Rail and their feet over the East rail both were right
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beside each other and their arms and hands were at their sides their heads facing straight up and they didn't move
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at all the train was traveling approximately 55 M an hour this would only give the crew just seconds to
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respond before running over the boys as we had said they hit the e mergency break but with the weight and the speed
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of the train this is going to take some time to bring this metal monster to a stop mhm as they are breaking the steel
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wheels are they're screaming on the steel tracks the train cars vibrate the tracks begin to vibrate as well the
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whistle is blowing and still the boys do not jerk they do not flinch they do not
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move a muscle now Shyer couldn't tell what the object was that was covering the boys but the other two men on the
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train Tomlin and this other guy his last name is Delamar both said that this item
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that was covering the boys from waist to knee was a tarp a a pale green tarp I believe one of the men actually said
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that it looked like a boat cover um and they stated that the gun was clearly a rifle the barrel was near one of the
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boys's head and the stock was mostly underneath the tarp the men watched as the bodies disappeared under the Train
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the men heard the train hit the boys one one of the men explained that what he was used to on occasion the train would
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hit a dog and he said that you would hear like a thud and then you would hear rocks flying because if it was something
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that was under the train then the train was scooting the object along with the boys and with the gun the men felt the
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impact and they said it was very one two three you could you could feel the hit of the first boy second boy and then the
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gun it's hard to imagine what's going through these guys' heads as their hitting the bodies yeah it's I mean it's
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complete nightmare when the train hits an object uh one of two things usually happen so there is a scoop on the front
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of this train that the men called a cow catcher I believe this is a commonly used term so either the cow catcher will
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hit the item and toss the object violently aside or it gets sucked up under the train right and this is what
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happened here and the two boys' legs were laying on the track so what happened was the feet were actually
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severed by the train yes severed from the legs and the heads and the torsos were between the tracks so the train
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would have cleared the bodies and then rolled them under the train uh this is what the three men on board had heard so
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armed with flashlights the men get off of the train and they went looking for what they had hit about 35 cars back
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they located the first of many pieces that they would find right train cars yeah they they spotted some dismembered
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toes the biggest body part that they found was the chest and head of the second boy the first boy was he was much
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more chopped up the police had started to arrive on the scene um and they basically found parts of the gun and the
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bodies scattered along a quarter mile of the tracks mhm one thing the crew members noticed very quickly was that
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there was a lot less blood than than any of them had expected to see and the blood that they did see and find it was
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dark it wasn't it wasn't red it was a purplish color and like you said they have experience with you know hitting
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the Train the train hitting a dog or a cow or a deer or something of that nature yeah and and in this area of the
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country too these are guys that were familiar with hunting um so they they knew kind of what to expect
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unfortunately in this situation that's why they were so freaked out was they knew what they were expecting to see and
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they were terrified going back there looking for that well yeah cuz it's on a whole different level I mean it's one
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thing to hit a deer but to hit two teenage boys mhm the police were there at 4:40 a.m. this is just about 13
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minutes after the crew had reported the incident mhm this fell to the jurisdiction of the Saline County
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Sheriff's Office on the scene we have Deputy Chuck talent and Lieutenant Ray Richmond who was the head of the
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Department's criminal investigation division after checking out the scene the officers decided that they were
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investigating either an accident or a suicide M the crew working the train immediately disagreed with the officers
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they knew that of course accidents certainly do happen around trains and suicides do as well but the troubling
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thing here is that the men saw neither boy move at all right if if it were a suicide they said they might be able to
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be talked into agreeing that one person could Brave through the terrifying situation of the train approaching them
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but none of the men would agree that two people could lay there and not flinch or
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not move a muscle as the train got closer and closer right which I I think I agree with them on uh I just think
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that's a really hard thing to even speculate mhm also at the scene was State Trooper Wayne lanhardt of the
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Arkansas State Police MH now lanhart was concerned by what he saw at the scene but let's keep in mind he this is not
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his jurisdiction right uh this is the jurisdiction of the sheriff's office so he is at their mercy so I'm assuming
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that it was a the call was made and he was just in close proximity so he then showed up to see if they need any
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assistance yeah everybody was responding to this call so this is not his case he
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is pretty much just a spectator at this point but the thing that bothered him the most was the sheriff depuy's
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disinterest in the possibility of a murder according to layard's training any unnatural death should be
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investigated first as a possible homicide so evidence can be preserved and the most serious possibilities
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eliminated before less serious ones are considered laner after having talked with the crew members told the deputies
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that he doubted the deaths were an act accident right another cause for concern was the observations made by the
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emergency medical technicians arriving on the scene right the EMTs yeah they both said that the bodies looked more
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like mannequins because there was so little blood and at the impact site the blood that they found was really dark in
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color more a purple than a red mhm they didn't see any bright blood and this led
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them to believe that the blood that they were seeing was not fresh who were the two boys on the tracks that night and
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why were they there MH the boys were 17-year-old Kevin IES and 16-year-old Don Henry and I know it's
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1987 and there wasn't a lot of law enforcement didn't crack down on curfew as often but what is a 16 and
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17-year-old boy doing out by these train tracks I mean it's Saturday they they're
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hanging out Saturday and then this this happens at 4 a.m. on Sunday yeah so it was the weekend y well this is a rural
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area um so uh you don't see curfews really enforced a whole lot out in these parts um but basically the boys were
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staying the night at Don Henry's home uh and they they got there around 12:15 a.m. uh don lives with his parents
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Curtis and his stepmother Marvel Henry now the two were supposed to be staying the night at Don's house they had known
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each other about 6 months uh they had become quick friends hanging out together very often uh this was the
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summertime nearing the start of another school year so they were you know the two of them were trying to make the most
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of their summer what what they had left right uh Kevin had stayed at Dawn's Place once or twice before but Kevin's
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mother Linda was not real excited about Kevin staying there that night uh in fact she had originally said no to the
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request because because last time he had stayed there she didn't approve of what
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went down on that occasion Don's father had called Linda the morning after and asked if the boys were at her house
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right and she says she says no you know they they were supposed to be at at your
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place I don't I don't know what happened here right so they did a switch a rule well what what it turns out that what
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happened was that uh at some point Don had gotten an argument with his father Curtis mhm uh and then then after the
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argument the two boys went and decided to stay at another friend's house that night um so Curtis maybe thought that
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they went back to Kevin's and it turns out that that was not not the case well it's very embarrassing when you have a
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friend over and you get an argument with your parents MH that's always like you're like oh I'm I'm really sorry that
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my mom's being a big old bee right now well I'm sure Kevin's parents would have wished that they would have returned to
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to their place rather than just going to this yeah this unscripted place that they ended up um so of course Linda was
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reluctant to let Kevin go over there on this occasion but you know how it goes teenagers talk their parents into things
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uh so on that night the two had been hanging out with some friends uh they were told to be home by midnight or
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12:30 at the latest so once they were back at Don's place they had asked Don's father Curtis if they could go out
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hunting uh this is spotlighting which is an illegal form of hunting plus I wouldn't think that anything would be in
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season at that time of year now Don was an avid Hunter so he was you know this activity sounds a bit strange to me uh
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but I get the impression that this could have been a common thing here for him uh
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plus it doesn't sound to me as if Don's parents or at least Don's father Curtis was the strictest of parents right well
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and some people remember what their childhood was like when when it's summertime and they think you know some
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parent parents get a little more loose in in the summertime and I I think that's okay well I used to be a you know
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have to be in by a certain time but in the summertime a lot of times my parents would let me pitch a tent in the
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backyard you know and have somebody stay over so really I wasn't totally under their watchful eye um but spotlighting
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is where you go out with flashlights and a gun and when you come across some unfortunate animal and I don't know what
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they were hunting for uh or maybe if they were just looking for any type of creature out there um but basically you
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you shine your flashlight on the animal and the light beam will pretty much lock
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up the animal like the old saying freeze up like a deer in the headlights well this makes the animal a very easy
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target so they ask Curtis if they can go out spotlighting and he says yes and that is the last time that the boys are
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known to be seen alive yeah last time that they're known to be seen Alive by any parents or close family members this
00:18:00
story which has not been covered often has so many twists and turns and I dare say maybe one of the most interesting
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cases Most Fascinating cases with as many twist that you will ever hear in a case yeah it it it's crazy it starts off
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as a small town case and it could be I mean it could be huge well it starts out as a as a small town case that people
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think it's an accident or suicide mhm the next morning Curtis the father he gets up around 5:00 a.m. and he wakes up
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his wife Marvel saying that that Dawn should have been home by now but wasn't and he tells her that he really thinks
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that something is wrong here Curtis goes out looking for the boys he knew where the boys were going to go hunt uh so he
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headed to the woods near the train tracks he's out driving around looking for Don and Kevin and while he's out
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there he passes a uh deputy mhm and he slows down and he stops and he asked the deputy if they had seen two teenagers
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out there running around the deputy asked who the man was looking for and Curtis knowing that the boys were out
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hunting illegally he decided that he didn't want to name any names right you know um so Curtis is going to continue
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on looking for the boys the officer also didn't say that they had found two boys
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on the train tracks when when Curtis had stopped to talk to him right after driving around for a few hours Curtis
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went home and he called Linda and he asked her if the boys were at her place and of course now she's thinking oh no
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not again this happened last time and why the hell can't this other parent keep the kids at his house right uh she
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asked if there was an argument uh he says no there was nothing like that that the boys had simply went out hunting and
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they must have stayed out all night uh he told Lindon not to worry because Dawn had hunted often uh he was very
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responsible with a firearm and he knew the woods better than anyone mhm Linda was beginning to get quite worried about
00:20:10
Kevin though well and like we said we're 16 and 17y old and you have your little
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stomping grounds so it seems like Don one of Don's stomping grounds was these woods and you know and and back when I
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was uh probably you know elementary school and middle school there was Woods by my house and if you took a you know
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if a parent came back looking for a kid they couldn't find their way around right but but the kids knew how to get
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through every inch of that woods around noon the phone rang again and it was Curtis uh Linda could tell by his voice
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that this call was much different than the last call he says get over here quick they've been shot and tied to the
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railroad tracks and they've been run over by the train now this might sound a little weird here but Linda of course
00:20:58
she she's in shock by what she has just heard yeah obviously but she she says that she was actually somewhat relieved
00:21:07
once she had a chance to kind of process what Curtis had said uh Linda was worried that the boys could have been in
00:21:14
a car wreck you know they they were both young drivers at this time they both owned fast cars Don had a firebird and
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Kevin had a Camaro right uh 1987 but yeah but she said what Curtis had told her sounded so absurd that it couldn't
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have possibly happened that it couldn't be the truth right right so Linda drives
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over to Curtis Curtis Henry's home when she pulled up to the place she sees Kevin's car at the end of the driveway
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and this makes her feel very good uh she's immediately thinking that Kevin had returned to the Henry's and nobody
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was in a car wreck and you know all is good again right maybe maybe something happened and maybe they were on these
00:21:56
tracks but they're okay now mhm well that feeling quickly left her as she's getting out of the car a deputy this is
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Deputy Talent came out from the house and he asked her to come inside so we go here from from a lot of relief to very
00:22:14
worried Curtis right in front of the officer tells Linda that a neighbor had told him that the boys had been shot
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they had been tied to the tracks and they've been run over by the train now the police officer he states that the
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boys yes there there had been two boys that had been run over by a train now these boys had not been positively
00:22:36
identified yet and they were going to be checking dental records at the crime lab
00:22:41
to figure out who these boys were right but you have no whereabouts of your two of these two teenage boys mhm that you
00:22:49
know that they went out at night you know what area they went at yeah you know they went in the woods down by the
00:22:55
train tracks right and you now and they didn't come home and their vehicles are at your house mhm so this is this is
00:23:04
very Troublesome well Deputy Talent he asked Linda for a description of what Kevin was wearing the last time that she
00:23:11
had seen him um she describes this and he does say that that fit with the items that they had found at the
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tracks um what led the officers to Curtis Henry's door they had found a camouflage baseball cap with the with a
00:23:28
Little Rock electric logo on it this is the electric company in the area right now Curtis was a superintendent with
00:23:37
that company and Don had had one of those hats right Don wanted to become an electrician uh just like his father
00:23:46
after graduating from high school and that summer he had actually kind of Taken Don under his wing a little bit
00:23:52
and would bring him into work with him and you know kind of show him the ropes a little bit to see if this was was
00:23:58
something he actually wanted to do after graduating high school so unfortunately
00:24:03
this is a this is a hat that he knew that Dawn would have been wearing that night right so the writing is pretty
00:24:09
much on the wall yeah and unfortunately the boys would soon later be positively identified as the two boys who had been
00:24:17
run over by the train that night right that being Don Henry and Kevin Ives now there are still plenty of more weird
00:24:24
things about that night that we haven't even got to yet mhm uh the first strange thing here is
00:24:30
remember that at the beginning of the show we had said that the Train's conductor had called another train that
00:24:36
was passing on a parallel track and he called them telling them to stop because they had just run over some boys uh well
00:24:45
once the officers had arrived and they began scoping out the scene the sheriff's told the other train that it
00:24:53
could then continue on well this is before collecting some of the remains or or looking for potential evidence of a
00:25:00
crime here right you know nothing stirs up a crime scene area like a giant train
00:25:05
passing through right next the crew had said that they and this is all three of the crew members they all got the same
00:25:14
feeling that the Sheriff's Office the the officers that were on the scene they said that they didn't even believe that
00:25:21
any of them were looking for any clues as to what had happened first off they were obviously looking at this thing
00:25:28
like it was an accident or a double suicide and not only that but the officers were overheard being told hey
00:25:35
treat this as a traffic accident yeah and and I'm guessing that this might have been the extent of their expertise
00:25:43
you know they were probably all familiar with traffic fatalities but not very familiar with you know potential double
00:25:51
double murder scene and probably not a scene as complicated as this one uh this next next bit is is extremely strange in
00:26:00
my mind regarding the sheriff's that night uh it's like they were trying to pull the old Jedi mind trick on the
00:26:06
train crew after listening to each of the crew members statements the deputy and the lieutenant told the crew members
00:26:14
that they had all been mistaken that there was no tarp covering the boys do or do not there is no trash yeah they
00:26:22
they they simply told the guys that they were confused by how dark it had been that night and there was simply no tarp
00:26:30
um the next thing that the sheriffs did was confusing too as well because they also seemed to doubt the men's
00:26:36
statements that there was a gun present with the boys right and we know from Curtis from Don's father that they were
00:26:43
out there to hunt so makes a lot of sense that there would be a gun beside the boys right right and we and we know
00:26:50
that but but the officers at the scene they don't know any of that information yet but it's very strange here Captain
00:26:56
why would they when you take the the train crew statements mhm uh and then you're going to go out and look at the
00:27:02
scene and and unfortunately have this terrible job of collecting things there why would you have any reason to doubt
00:27:10
them without walking the scene yet why why would you even say that there was no tarp why would you say that there's no
00:27:16
gun um I don't even know why you would even question that wouldn't you just take their statements and not even make
00:27:22
any observations of your own until you've walked the scene well and as you're walking the scene Maybe they're
00:27:27
just having a hard time finding these items so therefore well I can't find it so maybe you are mistaken I mean I I
00:27:34
don't think all that stuff is NE you know nefarious I think some of it is just simply well maybe you know it was
00:27:42
super dark you have this bright light coming from your train M and maybe you didn't see exactly what you think you
00:27:48
saw I I can agree with that I can agree with that the train is traveling very fast it's very dark out that night these
00:27:54
men are trained though to spot things on the tracks um that is one thing that they do you know right but what what a
00:28:01
law enforcement should do is just take the statement and if the statement is a little off that's okay that is the
00:28:08
statement from that individual not a statement that you guys made in a joint effort right right and and don't react
00:28:16
to those statements until you have an opportunity to check out the scene and collect evidence to you know cuz they're
00:28:22
probably walking in there thinking this was an accident or this was a suicide it's the only things that seem to make
00:28:28
sense here um but it's it's weird that they have this kind of preconceived notion before even really collecting
00:28:36
evidence yeah but we see this time and time again with law enforcement it's you create a narrative and then you make
00:28:43
that evidence fit your narrative instead of collecting the evidence and collecting the statements and letting
00:28:50
that create your narrative yeah and while they're walking the scene with the crew members uh they
00:28:57
even State several times you know where so where is this alleged gun where where
00:29:01
is this so-called gun that you guys saw we have law enforcement creating a narrative mhm now we need to do autopsy
00:29:08
on these bodies to actually figure out you know that's going to point us in a direction too and this is where the
00:29:14
first twist in this story takes place we'll get to that right after this quick beer
00:29:23
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00:31:42
all right we're back cheers mates yeah we have two boys that are found dead on the train tracks and we do have
00:31:49
autopsies that we need to get to but I real quickly I want to go through a couple more things about that night
00:31:55
before we get to those autopsies mhm uh we had talked about the gun you know that the the officers refused to believe
00:32:02
the crew statement that there was a gun president present that they had seen one
00:32:06
right and like we said before Curtis uh Henry Don Henry's father said they went out hunting mhm and while they're
00:32:14
searching the crime scene they start referring to this gun as the alleged gun or the so-called gun it was not until
00:32:21
the Sheriff's Office had actually recovered pieces of a shattered 22 rifle with that they would believe that there
00:32:28
was even a gun present right so they did recover shattered pieces of a 22 rifle uh there were no bullets in it at the
00:32:35
time there was no tarp found um I could see a tarp just getting ripped to shreds
00:32:42
uh you know if it's covering the boys well possibly but you also have the other train mhm that just they let go
00:32:50
mhm and I could totally see a a tarp being trapped into a a train somehow yeah gets pulled along you're exactly
00:32:59
right and and not only that they're not even looking for a tarp they're refusing
00:33:02
to believe that it it exists right right but so as they're collecting evidence they they they weren't looking for these
00:33:08
things and these things were scattered for about a quarter mile of track and there was also other items that were
00:33:14
found left at the track as well mhm so the boys were the train incident took place on a Sunday well Monday morning
00:33:21
comes and the deaths are reported in the news and in the papers M so people start
00:33:27
going down to the tracks to check out the scene uh one group that went down there they found a I like to call those
00:33:34
people Whiskers Whiskers cuz they're curious like a cat well these people uh be careful what you wish for they went
00:33:42
down to the track this one group and they found a severed foot in the gravel uh that was missed by the sheriff's
00:33:50
department right so you don't believe that there is a gun you don't believe that there is a tarp you find evidence
00:33:56
of the gun gun mhm and then you leave a foot behind yeah right I mean and like we said some of the police officers that
00:34:03
were at the scene at the time said look you have to assume that this is a homicide scene and you need to do your
00:34:10
due diligence so therefore we can get some answers and this is direct evidence to point that they said well this is a
00:34:18
suicide or accident case shut mhm well in fact it became it became well-known knowledge that the sheriff's inv
00:34:26
investigators never even roped off the scene um and some other people recovered parts of the gun from that scene that
00:34:34
the Sheriff's Office had missed well congratulations when they returned Dawn's clothing to the Henry's um his
00:34:43
stepmother found a small bag of pot in his pocket uh so the officers had missed this entirely and two days after the
00:34:51
boys's death the sheriffs they they offer a statement saying hey we haven't ruled out anything except for Foul Play
00:34:57
We ruled that out mhm yeah in review of the investigation it was learned that the Sheriff's Office spent about a week
00:35:05
on the investigation this mostly consisted of interviews with friends and classmates of the two boys uh most of
00:35:12
these interviews contained the same two questions well heck most of these interviews only consisted of two
00:35:18
questions one how much drugs did the boys use and two were they suicidal right and this is what makes me go
00:35:27
Bonkers man yeah it's it's again like we said they are they have a theory and then they're trying to create the
00:35:35
narrative and we see this time and time again it's it's just it's utter Malarkey
00:35:41
yeah and usually even in an accidental death when they are invest when they're investigating it they will typically ask
00:35:47
friends and relatives well do you know anybody that would have wanted to hurt this person right or why and you know
00:35:53
and this is not even a question that is posed to most of these people right but you're asking people the same question
00:35:59
are they suicidal how much drugs did they use and then it creates the story amongst the people that well that's must
00:36:05
be what happened here right and then and then obviously think about the family why would you why would you tell your
00:36:13
parents why one why would you spend the night with anybody and then why would you decide to oh well let's just go
00:36:18
hunting and uh let's now let's just lay down on the tracks and again like you said you'd have to have I mean you have
00:36:26
to have the balls nerves of Steel Man to lay there on that track MH and let that
00:36:32
happen yeah well this story obviously very quickly became big-time news all across the state of Arkansas Not only
00:36:40
was the story A parents worst nightmare but it was a strange and horrible story all at the same time of course the rumor
00:36:48
mill ran wild and there were a lot of theories regarding the deaths being traded around dinner tables dinners at
00:36:56
local bars and you know all over the state of Arkansas one of the things that I find a little creepy about this and uh
00:37:04
our longtime listeners would know we we covered the Phantom killer also known as
00:37:09
the Tex Arcana murders MH and and having the train come from Tex Arcana adds a little bit to the creep factor for me
00:37:19
the Sheriff's Office officially seem to be describing the deaths as an apparent accident but would not give it that
00:37:26
official title yet stating that the official cause of death would have to come from the State medical examiner's
00:37:33
office unfortunately when the deputies were speaking with the families they suggested that suicide was a more likely
00:37:40
explanation right again coming up with your own narrative well and both sets of parents disagreed with this thought uh
00:37:47
from the beginning uh that you know there was no evidence that the boys were suicidal there was some evidence that
00:37:55
the boys had been used using drugs uh one 1.9 G of marijuana was found in the pocket of Kevin's jeans right and not
00:38:03
always is there are signs of somebody struggling with you know Suicidal Thoughts here's another strange thing to
00:38:10
the story though Captain uh that is often not reported Kevin's father Larry IES he was an engineer for the railroad
00:38:19
uh the route that the train was on that passed over the boys that route just months before it was his route
00:38:27
um and it was just pure coincidence that that route was no longer Larry's or he would have been driving the train that
00:38:35
night right so he would have he would have been engineering the train that basically you know uh ran over his own
00:38:43
son mhm the parents obviously were devastated by the tragedy but they were also disappointed in the Sheriff's
00:38:49
Office and how they handled this incident they were anxiously awaiting the medical examiner's ruling on the
00:38:57
cause of deaths uh and they wanted answers obviously a week after the funerals the medical examiner had
00:39:04
finished his report and a meeting with the parents was scheduled when the parents arrived they were first met in
00:39:11
the parking lot by officers from the Sheriff's office there was also an officer from the Arkansas State Police
00:39:17
there as well this was really good news to the parents as they had been requesting multiple times in this short
00:39:25
time period that the case be transferred to the state police um but that had not
00:39:30
been done uh ke Kevin's parents brought a potential useful item with them Larry and some of his friends went to the site
00:39:38
where the boys had died when when they were there they found a large piece of cardboard the piece was large enough
00:39:46
that it could have been used to drag two bodies on it there was also a stain on it and that stain could have been blood
00:39:53
right Larry knew that the Sheriff's Office didn't have have the technology or the capability to properly analyze it
00:40:00
so he wanted to bring it directly to the medical examiner's office in the parking
00:40:05
lot he showed the piece of cardboard to the state police officer and he turns it
00:40:10
over to him there we have a 16 and 17-year-old and obviously they're just teenagers but they're becoming young men
00:40:17
and you know you have a lot of growth spurts at those times so we're talking about two big individuals mhm that you
00:40:24
know now it's very possible if there was Foul Play that they were they were attacked on the train tracks cuz we know
00:40:30
that's where they're at but if they were attacked somewhere else and they use this piece of cardboard anybody that
00:40:37
knows it's like a sled push or something like and weightlifting yeah you can put
00:40:42
on a ton of weight but because it's on on a different surface you can drag that surface you know I mean most people
00:40:50
can't pick up a couch but people can push it around their living room mhm yeah and unfortunately this
00:40:56
possible piece of evidence um it's not seen again after this situation he the father gives it to the state officer and
00:41:05
he's told that it's going to get where it needs to go to be examined and that just simply doesn't happen right and
00:41:11
again the the my issue is you'd have to test this to one find out if it was blood if there was blood then we can
00:41:18
assume that this was used to maybe transport the bodies but here's the other thing about it this is the thing
00:41:24
that frustrates me is whoever used if that was used to transport the bodies then there's a good likelihood that
00:41:32
there was fingerprints on there right right and and and that's what frustrates me when the parents went inside to meet
00:41:40
the medical examiner uh this is FY Malik is his name uh they were yeah and his face looks exactly like the way his name
00:41:48
sounds okay uh but FY well the his face is very FY when the parents first met Malik they found him to be weird uh when
00:41:58
they first arrived Malik took polaroid pictures of each parent and had asked each of them to sign forms so it was
00:42:04
official as to who was in attendance at this meeting Oh I thought you were going
00:42:07
to say then he took pictures he took polaroid pictures of him then he asked him to shake it like a Polaroid picture
00:42:14
Malik then passed out copies of His official ruling the statement read something like this at 4:25 a.m. August
00:42:22
23rd 1987 Kevin Ives 17 and Don Henry 16 were unconscious in a deep sleep on the
00:42:30
railroad tracks under the Psychedelic influence of THC marijuana right when a train passed
00:42:37
over them causing their accidental deaths the parents began questioning Dr Malik not really his ruling but they
00:42:46
wanted more information because none of them had ever heard of people passing out from THC right according to the
00:42:53
parents Malik seemed very irritated at the additional questions I think that he thought that they would simply hear his
00:43:00
final ruling accept it and then leave this is very surprising to me that he would not have expected questions or
00:43:07
that he would have seemed irritated at the additional questions given his amount of experience in these matters
00:43:13
you know no one handles a sudden death well and loved ones are always left with a lot of questions when someone suddenly
00:43:19
dies especially if it's your kids and especially if the circumstances surrounding those deaths are normal this
00:43:27
guy has the bedside manner of a wolverine he basically states that marijuana levels in the boys were
00:43:33
extremely High drawing a line on a chalkboard he writes a large Five Below the line and a 100 above it pointing to
00:43:42
the 100 he says this is how stoned they were well you know old Captain FY over here I think part of his annoyance is
00:43:51
that you know he's an expert in his mind and here's my findings and kind of how dare you question me yeah well of course
00:44:01
the parents are still confused as the doctor has not clearly explained this very well right uh when they ask him
00:44:08
what kind of measurement is that Malik snaps back and says it's units the parents wanted this explained to them in
00:44:15
an easier terms because marijuana was not something they were familiar with they didn't know if passing out was
00:44:21
possible or likely or or really what they wanted to know how much pot the kids would have had to have smoked to
00:44:30
achieve these high levels of THC Malik never really answers that particular question right the more the parents
00:44:38
question him or push him for reasonable answers the more the doctor gets upset with them and at some point he holds up
00:44:44
a large envelope stating that inside are the autopsy photos and in these photos is the proof that you are looking for
00:44:53
well the parents of course they they don't want want to see these photos at all right and they told him that they
00:44:59
didn't want to see these photos yeah I don't know what parent would want to see that yeah they wanted toxicology results
00:45:07
and Malik insisted that they see the photos as crazy as this whole story sounds I believe this is true because
00:45:14
remember the officers are there with the parents at this time and at this meeting
00:45:18
yeah and we already know that they are not all on the same page but one of the officers yeah just meaning that some of
00:45:25
the officers thing from the get-go this should be this should have been looked at as a
00:45:29
homicide and then some of the other ones just going this is probably accidental or possibly suicide well and the
00:45:36
officers know that the parents are dissatisfied with with the off officer's investigation of this incident yeah and
00:45:43
I think the officer Hearts would have to go out to those parents and this is why
00:45:46
the statement has to be true because one of the officers then stands up at the table and this is an increasingly heated
00:45:54
debate but he said is pointing to the photos pointing to the envelope he says they don't want to see those right uh
00:46:01
that same officer as he begins to take his seat again he tells the parents that Malik had told them that 20 joints is
00:46:09
what the boys would have had to have smoked to to have that high level of THC that you know I am not a you know pot
00:46:17
smoker myself but I would just assume that 20 joints is a is a lot of joints yes 20 joints would be considerable
00:46:26
amount of I mean even if you just put it in like terms of like cigarettes like a
00:46:30
normal cigarette package has 20 cigarettes in it mhm so they would have had to smoke 20 cigarettes within
00:46:41
hours I don't know but it sounds that way because he's pointing to the 100 Mark and saying this is how Stone these
00:46:48
guys were um it it seems like a yeah but I would have walked up to that board and
00:46:52
pointed to that 100 and said Mr FY this is how much of a [ __ ] you are that's what that's what that 100 means well
00:47:00
Malik he denies that he had ever told the officer such a statement he says I never told the officers that it would
00:47:06
have taken 20 joints um and the officers they had reason to believe that the boys
00:47:12
purchased a $10 bag of marijuana on one of their stops that night um the the police right it's man if you can get 20
00:47:21
joints out of $10 of marijuana yeah it'd be a bad business to be in because you could you you could spend $10 and be
00:47:28
good for quite some time right uh the medical examiner's findings not only seemed questionable to the parents but
00:47:36
most of the citizens of Arkansas were pretty stunned by the ruling uh this is according to the newspapers the parents
00:47:43
decided to seek a second opinion they hired a second pathologist to review the deaths now this was a pathologist that
00:47:51
came recommended to them uh from other physicians in the area this is is Dr JT Francisco he's located in Memphis
00:47:59
Tennessee he was charging the parents $200 an hour uh and he explained to them that he would preserve and test the
00:48:07
blood of both boys and the urine of Kevin they would be unable to test Dawn's urine because his bladder had
00:48:15
been completely destroyed right and then also the this is the first time the parents are aware that that his urine
00:48:22
hasn't been tested yeah so we're seeing some progress here for the parents uh they received the results from Dr
00:48:29
Francisco uh and he actually confirms Dr Malik's ruling uh he quoted the same levels of THC that Malik had reported
00:48:38
100 97 micrograms per Mill for Kevin and 122 for Dawn okay upon further review of
00:48:47
the material sent to the parents from Dr Francisco's office they were able to determine that the results were from a
00:48:55
test of Kevin's urine only no blood from either boy or no urine from dawn were tested all right so he's agreeing with
00:49:04
you know Mr FY yeah so they get Dr Francisco on the phone and after some debate on how he could have confirmed
00:49:12
Malik's findings with only having tested the urine of one boy uh the doctor then
00:49:18
admitted that they had arrived at the conclusion by inference uh because his lab and the Arkansas lab followed
00:49:27
standard procedures the confirmation of one test gave weight of confidence that the other findings were going to be true
00:49:35
as well right but couldn't they just test both of their bloods but they didn't that's the whole thing they were
00:49:40
led to believe that that both sets of blood would be tested they didn't test any of that but they but they claimed
00:49:47
that they can back up Malik's findings right so we have the Ives family and the Henry family kind of getting [ __ ]
00:49:53
around again in February of 1988 the parents contacted members of the media to arrange for a press conference this
00:50:01
is a brilliant idea and they arrived at this plan because the longer this thing went on they were beginning to realize
00:50:07
that the only group interested in this case was the media no other group wanted to spend any time on this thing the day
00:50:15
after the press conference the families were contacted by Richard Garrett who is
00:50:19
the district Deputy prosecuting attorney Garrett wanted to help he told Linda that until he saw the press conference
00:50:26
he had no idea that the parents of The Dead Boys had been dissatisfied with the sheriff's department M he was going to
00:50:33
hold a prosecutor's hearing well what's that exactly well he he's hoping that they will reexamine the case but a a
00:50:40
prosecutor's hearing is not just unusual they are highly unusual these are intended for only special inquiries uh
00:50:49
particularly when the cause of death is in dispute well here the the cause of death is definitely in dispute mhm I
00:50:56
mean we have two coordinat saying well they they got super stoned and then they laid down on the tracks and they got ran
00:51:01
over by a train M and then the parents are going well that just doesn't add up doesn't make a lot of sense to us well
00:51:09
the uh Deputy prosecuting attorney Garrett he would introduce the families to a man by the name of Dan Harmon now
00:51:17
Dan Harmon is actually a guy that is off in a private practice he's not a prosecutor um but he's going to be
00:51:24
brought in as a quote unquote special prosecutor in this situation and he is going to make arrangements because he
00:51:32
wants to get a grand jurry organized so that this case can be looked at by some fresh eyes and decide if the an
00:51:39
investigation should shift gears or if that there's a chance of a trial taking place here right right so basically this
00:51:46
grand jury is going to be set up they're going to look at the evidence and they're going to decide do we need to
00:51:52
reinvestigate this case or is it shut you know open and shut case where these guys smoked some pot and then they had
00:52:01
an accident where the train ran over them MH and more importantly if if the the cause of death is what's in question
00:52:08
what the big dispute is then can we get you know another autopsy can we get other autopsies performed on these two
00:52:16
bodies right and after a couple more autopsies are performed and I think part of it too is like you don't want the
00:52:21
families uh of these you know victims they're VI VI of at least at this point a tragic accident you don't want them to
00:52:30
be dissatisfied with uh law enforcement and the way uh the coroner or anybody else handled their loved ones case mhm
00:52:40
so upon further review the grand jury the first thing that they're going to do is determine if this cause of death is
00:52:47
correct and their findings they're not agreeing with what Dr Malik had stated and they basically overturn the cause of
00:52:55
death death as a possible accident as a likely accident to a possible homicide well once that takes place they're going
00:53:04
to need to bring in somebody to conduct a further investigation into this autopsy and take a look at this thing
00:53:11
and see if their findings are correct right so we already have two autopsies done so this is technically going going
00:53:18
to be the third autopsy done yes so this they will bring in a man by the name of
00:53:24
Dr Burton and they actually bring him in from Atlanta uh they wanted to bring in
00:53:28
somebody that had more experience and somebody with outside eyes that wasn't so privy to what was going on in the
00:53:35
area they bring in Dr Burton and what are his findings well to begin with one of the things that he found most
00:53:41
disconcerning or most important to this case is the shirt that was worn by Don Henry or allegedly worn by Don Henry
00:53:49
this is the shirt that was not on the boy's body when he was found this was found some distance away from the track
00:53:56
where the Torso and the body of Don Henry were discovered all right so don didn't have a shirt on but this shirt
00:54:03
was possibly ran over by the train yes yes this shirt as we know has a lot of tears and defects in it a question that
00:54:10
was raised as to whether these tears or defects were made by the body being pulled down the track by the motion of
00:54:18
the train over the body of the victim what Burton did was he had took the shirt to a private Laboratory that he
00:54:25
had worked in in Atlanta and they took one of these tears this was a tear from the lower back area of the shirt that
00:54:32
was kind of in the area of of an injury that they had found on the back of Don Henry and they took a scalpel and they
00:54:39
cut this defect out which measured a little bit over an inch in length they then took this defect and they analyzed
00:54:47
it under a scanning electron microscope which is a very powerful microscope and with this microscope they could tell
00:54:54
whether the fabric had been torn or cut with something like scissors or a knife right so what he's saying is this cut on
00:55:01
the shirt and the body was either made by scissors or a knife yeah well basically basically what he can say is
00:55:09
that the cut on the shirt it exhibited all the characteristics of something that was cut with a very sharp blade um
00:55:16
so there's there's no question as far as this being a tear or anything like that
00:55:21
as far as Dr Burton is concerned also around the cut in the shirt they found evidence of blood which means which
00:55:31
means that the the boy had probably bled through some kind of injury before the shirt was removed from his body right so
00:55:38
we're starting to assume that this uh injury was um premortem yes yes and and here's the to kind of lay it out very
00:55:48
quickly here of Burton's concerns right first of all we have the the knife he believes a knife made this cut in the
00:55:54
shirt second of all it's majorly concerning to him that this cut matches up with a with
00:56:00
an injury to the boy's back and that more importantly that the shirt was not found on the boy's body meaning that if
00:56:08
this was an injury that was sustained by the train itself that you would expect to see you expect to see the the shirt
00:56:15
still on the boy matching up with the injury another thing that concerned Burton was an injury found to the left
00:56:22
cheek of Kevin IES uh this was an injury that he did not find consistent with any
00:56:27
pattern that might have been made from being struck by the cow catcher in front of the engine M uh he explained that he
00:56:33
sent photographs of the boy's injuries to a computer enhancement specialist and he was awaiting those results so we have
00:56:41
two things that he finds pretty odd MH yeah these are injuries that would not be consistent with with the train now
00:56:48
the thing is once they get those results back Captain he finds as well as the the
00:56:54
Specialists that he sent them to they find that that injury to Kevin's cheek is consistent with that of being struck
00:57:01
in the face with like the butt of a gun and more specifically uh They said that the gun
00:57:08
that was found with the boys could have very likely made that injury or caused that injury it would have been a similar
00:57:15
type gun or that gun the other thing that's interesting here Captain is that he would find something in both of the
00:57:23
boys that would give him cause of concern uh this is the amount of congestion and fluid in the lungs of
00:57:30
both of the boys he felt that this was in consistent with the type of injuries that one might expect from someone being
00:57:36
run over by a train when you have a sudden death occurring he feels that it's very likely uh that the possibility
00:57:44
exists that because there's this congestion and fluid in the lungs that both boys were either unconscious or
00:57:52
already dead when they were placed on those tracks they're either dead or they're knocked
00:57:58
unconscious and that's why they didn't move at all MH and so that the train possibly did cause their death but who
00:58:06
put them there mhm who made them unconscious another thing that he included in the autopsies as well and
00:58:13
this is more opinion than it is fact um but he had agreed with the train crew members stating that he he didn't see
00:58:22
how anyone whether they be passed out out from drug use or be sleeping on the tracks how they would not have you know
00:58:31
woke up as the train was getting closer and closer these these rails they vibrate the the train was Extremely Loud
00:58:37
anybody that even has ever stood next to a train just on the ground you can feel
00:58:42
the ground moving below your feet uh there was also a state trooper that was involved with the uh grand jury who had
00:58:51
gone down to the train tracks with with some other people people witnessing him and he timed this so that he would be
00:58:58
arriving and he could he could do this little experiment as a train was coming he laid down exactly how the boys were
00:59:05
laying on the tracks MH and he jumped up from the from the rails pretty quickly but he said that you know when this
00:59:12
train was this train was still quite a ways away maybe a quarter of a mile he said he felt the thing when it was like
00:59:19
a mile and a half away from him he could feel it coming down the tracks and then
00:59:23
on top of that he said he he he got terrified and to the point where he says he still has a little bit of like PTSD
00:59:30
just from from that moment experiencing that little exper he was also conscious at the time correct all right so this
00:59:37
third autopsy it brings up some questions and and it seems like it's not that agreeable with the first two
00:59:44
autopsies MH which I think you know causes a lot of concern I think it also causes a lot of concern with the parents
00:59:52
well as far as that second test goes and let's let's called that a test rather than an autopsy because it was supposed
00:59:57
to be a testing of the boy's blood and the boy's urine um you're exactly correct thank you and and but we know
01:00:04
that that didn't take place um but not only does this point out here that the the autopsies were probably wrong but
01:00:14
now this really starts to make you question the medical examiner himself uh you know what what is he up to why how
01:00:22
would he have arrived at these concl clusions uh after performing an autops he had a significant amount of time to
01:00:29
perform these tests and he comes up with a completely different ruling than what
01:00:34
this this other guy comes up with from from Atlanta right and look then it becomes which doctor is correct well
01:00:43
because of this whole case we have a lot of interesting things come out about Malik and Malik has all these autopsies
01:00:49
that were ruled normally natural causes or accidental and because of this you know
01:00:57
because of the parents and I applaud the parents they start stiring the pot and then they start going back and looking
01:01:03
at some of his other autopsies right we have a scenario where he ruled a guy say
01:01:09
we're we're just going to tell you about some of the more Wild Ones let's call them wild and and we won't use any names
01:01:15
because these P these particular people are only involved in this case through Malik they have really no right you know
01:01:23
nothing to do with this but this gives you an idea of some of the shenanigans going on withy Malik right so oldi he
01:01:32
you know rules this guy dies of a ulcer and not a big deal right that's his ruling the guy died of an ulcer and
01:01:40
everybody actually agrees with him says Hey Malik did his job again but they had
01:01:48
people find this guy's head yeah so he was decapitated apparently that happens naturally when
01:01:55
you have an ulcer uh your head just pops off right um so once they found this severed head they realized this autopsy
01:02:05
was completely botched yeah do do you want to know how he defended himself on that particular case sure so um here's
01:02:14
what happened here they they found the the dog that lived with this guy uh he actually lay dead in his home for for
01:02:21
quite some time uh the dog that lived there they recovered some of the dogs vomit and in it they found what what fi
01:02:29
believed to be uh evidence of of human tissue of of skin um so what had happened was fi said that the guy had
01:02:38
died and he laid there for quite some time and at some point the dog uh chewed on the neck until the point of
01:02:46
decapitating uh his owner um but of course the thing here is it it was all the evidence points to a very clean cut
01:02:57
of somebody killing this guy and taking off his head not the gnawing of a dog uh
01:03:03
chewing chewing up this this guy's neck right and then there's this other case where the guy this guy was suicidal he
01:03:10
he he told his family about it yeah they they put him in in a place for treatment
01:03:17
he wanted help right he went to his family he said help me out and and go ahead right and it looks like he lost
01:03:23
his battle with you know suicidal thoughts and he hung himself right and in this case Malik
01:03:30
decides well it wasn't suicide it was actually an accidental death mhm and again it's just stuff like that where
01:03:38
it's like and this is just three examples of probably like doz maybe a dozen or 20 of them out there that that
01:03:45
are pretty well known right and so the governor at this time is Bill Clinton mhm and people are calling for this
01:03:53
guy's job saying saying look we got these two boys that now we believe there's good reason to believe that
01:03:59
there was some foul play and this guy is ruling this we dug up all this other stuff he's not doing his job and
01:04:06
taxpayers are paying for that they want him to C you know they want Bill Clinton
01:04:11
to ask for his resonation right B Bill Clinton says well I I'm not really in charge of doing that that's not really
01:04:19
my thing so what do they do do they fire him do they replace him no they give him
01:04:24
a 43% raise where this leaves us now is we now have to look at these two deaths as murders okay so we need to conduct a
01:04:33
proper murder investigation MH and why were these things covered up and why does it seem that government officials
01:04:42
and people at the medical examiner office and the sheriff's department they seem to not want to investigate this
01:04:48
thing properly right and at what lengths are they going to go to or what is anybody going to go to to possibly cover
01:04:55
up this murder there's so much more to get into and we're just on the first episode of this yeah because if the
01:05:02
cause of death can be overturned that brings up so many more questions okay first of all if these boys were murdered
01:05:09
why were they murdered what what happened during those four hours between the time they left DA's house and the
01:05:17
time that they're found on those tracks what occurred during those 4 hours did they see something that they shouldn't
01:05:22
have seen m they come across somebody that they they shouldn't have come across what happened to those boys in
01:05:28
that 4 hours well we have a really good idea what happened because we have a bunch of eyewitness accounts we're going
01:05:35
to have to get into that tomorrow yes and don't forget to check out all of our old episodes they're available in the
01:05:41
iTunes Store and on our store Page at true Crim garage.com thank you guys so much for sharing the thank you guys so
01:05:49
much for sharing thank you guys so much for sharing it with a friends family I just
01:05:55
got a text message a couple minutes ago saying hey I told somebody about your show uh they don't call it true crime
01:06:01
garage they call it the captain show the captain show well imagine that isn't that special all right we'll
01:06:09
see you guys in the garage tomorrow and until then be good be kind and don't litter
01:06:31
[Music] [Applause] [Music] is it possible to predict the unpredictable can 3D printed life-size
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organ models help to map out complex surgeries ahead of time is is it possible it already is right here Mayo
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Clinic you know where to go