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[Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing thanks
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wonderful double IPA brewed with pandan leaves and sabor hops it's got a bit of a sweet finish to it which I like
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round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] it took almost two years to find the
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remains of Heather Church and the crime scene where the remains were found offered no clues as to who the
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perpetrator of this abduction and murder could be the daily Sentinel ran an article with the headline girls remains
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found after two-year search this from The Associated Press the article labeled Timothy belbek the man who found her
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skull and reported his findings as a transient camper and states the death was ruled a homicide and the coroner's
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report indicates Heather suffered blunt-force trauma to the head this article has some interesting pieces of
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information in here as well it goes on to say Heather was last seen wearing white cotton pajamas and no shoes she
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had laid out an outfit for school and her bedding was rumpled as if she was asleep until something had awakened her
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enter Lou Smith who is Lou Schmitt captain he's a detective that likes to climb in and out of windows he's
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probably best known for his involvement in the JonBenet Ramsey case I think he's
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on the smaller side to captain that might make give him the the extra super ability of climbing in and out of
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windows you think so I don't think he looks small to me but hey I didn't either but I read some story where he
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decided when he first became a police officer he needed to bulk up because he was like I want to say he was like five
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six to maybe five seven but like a hundred and fifty pounds when he first started on the force he got into some
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situation where he said a large woman was attempting to drag him across the street and she was having some success
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and that's when he decided I got to start going to the gym I got a beefed-up if I'm gonna be yeah I
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think that was my mother well you know I like to use the term super cop Lou Schmitt is certainly a super cop in his
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career he worked on more than 200 murder cases in which a suspect had been arrested and tried for
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their crimes he was a detective with the Colorado Springs Police Department he joined the force way back in 1966 and
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worked his way all the way up to the rank of detective Lou helped to get the arrest and conviction of spree killer
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Freddie Glenn in his accomplice Michael Corbitt Glen was found guilty of murdering three people in 1975 yeah one
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of them being a Karen Grammer that's correct this including the killing of Karen
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Grammer younger sister of actor Kelsey Grammer he was also involved in the arrest and conviction of Michael Corbitt
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this was Freddie Glenn's accomplice so together we have Glenn who was found guilty of murdering three
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people in 1975 Glenn and Corbett together were responsible for a total of five deaths in and around Colorado
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Springs back in 1975 so now I would like to introduce you to another man John Anderson now I'm not talking about money
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in the bank and seminal wind John Anderson no I'm talking about the John Anderson who I will deemed to be another
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super cop Anderson was sworn in in January of 1995 as El Paso County's new sheriff and with him came loose mitt
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Anderson wanted two things one for loose mitt to take over as captain of detectives in El Paso County and two to
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solve Heather church's case which by this time 1995 was looking like it would never be
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solved in the over three years of the case law enforcement really only developed per the evidence in interviews
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a few suspects some of the members of Heather's church at one point turned on one another
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Heather's Sunday school teacher and a family friend were questioned extensively as were Heather's parents
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everyone police in the FBI looked at either had an ironclad alibi passed a polygraph test or both again
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this included Heather's parents Diane and Mike definitely a lot of suspicion towards the parents I think when you
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have a case like this where you have no leads no clues that's kinda where the direction that it just naturally takes
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on yeah now in 1995 Lou Smith took over as captain of detectives and he took over the Heather Church investigation
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Lou is pretty old-school and he said that regardless of what other people thought that they knew about the case
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Mike and Diane church were not suspects he said he knew very early on in his investigation then they together or
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separate were involved in any way after meeting them both and speaking with them
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separately Schmidt believed they were truly victims and far too good of people to do something so terrible it's not
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clear whether or not they took polygraph tests and passed or not right the information I have that came from the
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Sheriff's Department states that they did okay now Smith also offered up after speaking with the parents he offered up
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some of his expert opinions on the case to the parents of Heather he told them he would catch the man that killed her
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he said he believed the perpetrator was an intelligent male and that his name was already in the case file he also
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believed unlike the FBI that the motive behind why the perp entered the church home may not have been sexual Schmidt
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wanted to start his investigation at the very beginning in reviewing the case he
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noted the recovery of fingerprints from the crime scene captain Schmidt recognized that although the prince had
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been forwarded to both the FBI in the CBI he was aware that there were in fact ninety two separate automated
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fingerprint identification systems or atheists for short so here we are once more captain
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at the latent fingerprints left on the master bedroom window screen from inside Heather church's house yeah it seems
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like that's the biggest piece of evidence we have forensics expert Thomas Kearney was the man who educated Schmitt
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on the trouble with the fingerprint systems in fact Kearney he came from Miami he worked in law enforcement in Miami he
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was the first person to compile a list of the Atheists systems in the United States Canada and Mexico and Short North
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America as said this number as of 1995 was 92 of these systems Kearney put together ninety two sets of
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black-and-white photographs of the prints that they found on the window screen and this was to be mailed off to
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all 92 automated finger printing identification systems in March of 1995 they got the call they were waiting on
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for years so sound the trumpets captain we're still working on the trumpets he heard the crash that was good taking
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lessons that was good but I mean we need some actual real trumpets they got a match in fact they got two matches one
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in California and one in Louisiana so ninety-two of these different places they send off these photographs two of
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them call back and say hey we got a match for you on those fingerprints that you sent us mm-hmm
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the fingerprints were matched to 42 year old felon Robert Charles Brown who lived
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at one six six six zero Easton Ville Road and he was one of the churches nearest neighbors
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he lived in a double-wide about a half a mile from the church's home where he lived with his wife brown worked a tree
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farm located on his property where he lived Brown was arrested for burglary and vehicle theft in Louisiana
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where he served ten months he was also charged with something in California and I
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believe he may have served a little bit of time there but his record he has a record but it's for nothing nearly as
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heinous as abduction or murder in 1987 his parole was transferred from Louisiana to the state of Colorado the
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fingerprints found inside the crime scene at the church's house were submitted and resubmitted over the years
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to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation but for whatever reason when Brown when his parole was transferred his prints
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were never entered into the CBI system so even though they're checking them there's nothing there to match them to
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four days after they got the match they arrested brown outside of a store in town and brought him to the station for
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questioning the first thing that they wanted to know of course did brown know the churches he said no in fact he said
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he was a loner and he and his wife did not socialize much though we know their neighbors give a he lives a half a mile
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away right so again it's when we talk about these different cases it's important to always kind of keep in mind
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the lay of the land they owned that big property he owned a decent sized property as well he was what I believe
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is reported to be their nearest neighbor but that's half a mile away they really
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wanted to know had he ever been to the church's house and this would be for any reason at all right no he said in fact
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the closest to their home that he had ever been was when he assisted a delivery truck that broke down on the
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side of the road near the churches long driveway out to the road that is exactly
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what they wanted to hear got him got him captain right got him yeah because if if this guy was known if
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Robert Brown was known to do like handiwork in the area and they go hey were you ever in their house oh yeah
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while I was I wasn't friends with them but I did some painting for them Wow where
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did you do the painting at Oh master bedroom the other but you know I mean right then it put that gives you a that
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gives a reason why the fingerprint should be there or could be there yeah and really that that is so key to this
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case as you just stated he has given no reason at all for his fingerprints to be
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there let alone be inside of the home well mind you that's a dumbass where where the prints were found were found
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technically inside the home because the here's the thing is they ask you about your neighbors you you know that this
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girl was abducted right so if you just start lying and saying well yeah you know I went over there a couple times
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mm-hmm and and I'm sure they asked the family and I'm sure they didn't but I don't know they'd be covering your ass a
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little bit let's get into that a bit because the this part of the story is quite
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interesting I think really when they arrested him at this store that was not their intention they actually wanted to
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set up they wanted to catch him meaning they wanted to get him in a conversation
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asking him questions about the church homicide and and catch him that way but catch him off guard meaning that that he
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doesn't know that they are looking specifically at him right so once they get the match on the fingerprints their
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idea is okay let's send a handful of officers and detectives out into the area and let's knock on everybody's door
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again and let's ask these sets of questions that way he thinks it's all this is just all routine you know we're
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we're doing a research routine questioning of everybody in the area we're not specifically looking at you
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right this is where they were hoping that he would say I've never been to their house and the problem was when
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they sent all the officers out into the area he was already under surveillance at that point he
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left to go shopping and at some point they got nervous the law enforcement got nervous and said we have to arrest this
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guy they were really worried that when they place him in cuffs and say look you're
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being arrested for the murder of Heather dawn Church right they as you said he's
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a dumbass that he would wise up and go oh yeah I was there to do yard work or whatever yeah I babysit him
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yeah because even even if the churches said no that's not the truth now you had she said you yeah you have
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his word against theirs yeah now the reason why police believe that he wasn't smart enough to come up
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with something like that ya know actually they think that that he was so convinced that he never left his
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fingerprints there meaning they believed that he was wearing gloves during the abduction and he may have taken them off
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very briefly to replace the the screen right and very likely he's being questioned about this three years later
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he remembers that he wore gloves to the crime scene but doesn't remember taking them off for a very brief time yeah that
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makes a lot of sense so he's so surprised by this whole deal of him leaving fingerprints there that he tells
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them straight up he's he's without a lawyer at this point in the questioning and he's telling them there's no way
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possible that those are my fingerprints he said I don't doubt that you found fingerprints there I doubt that they're
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mine and they say well we have your fingerprints back from when you were arrested in Louisiana and we rechecked
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them they got a match in Louisiana we got a match with your old fingerprints in California he goes well that's well
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and good but people make mistakes my fingerprints could have been mixed up with somebody else's you know what you
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put we're testing our pictures he's saying take my fingerprints right now and test them again because I'm telling
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you my fingerprints were not there right that's how adamant he was and they did so and they checked it again right so
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now you have that in your back pocket as the detectives are questioning Robert Charles Brown yeah and during all of
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this remember he's asking for to be tested again take new fingerprints they're doing all this to test it again
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and while they're doing this they talked him into a polygraph test yeah and later
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he's told he failed the test and he's told again it doesn't matter how many times we fingerprint you and run the
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test they are still matching the set that we found on the window screen at the churches home right the other thing
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too captain is during these interviews while they're being conducted the police were at Browns home they're searching
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the place they already had a search warrant before they arrested him there they found girls clothing and girls
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jewelry stuffed into a pillowcase he has no children this is a bit unexplained what this stuff was or where it came
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from what is explained is that none of it belonged to Heather they also know it it's probably trophies of some kind yeah
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so they found stolen items from another home that was another residence that was
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kind of nearby mm-hmm so these could have just been things that they don't have to be from another
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murder victim they could be things that he stole from somebody's home they found
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this is just straight-up bizarre I've never heard of this before but I do know people steal these types of things I've
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just never found one in any of the cases we've covered they found a stolen Bobcat
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earthmover machine worth $18,000 now captain you and I both know that is not a small machine mm-hmm that's a large
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thing to have stolen from someone apparently I don't know why he stole it he must have used it for some kind of
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work keep in mind he had that tree farm he had a big plot of land there's some suspicions as to what he could have used
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it for but his his wife was aware that he stole this large machine she said he used it the only thing that
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she knew that he used it for was he dug a big hole with it drove the machine into the hole and then attempted to
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cover it up attempted to bury it or just cover it up bury the machine as said they found
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stolen items from another house or other residences in the area this is you know
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the some of the more alarming stuff they found newspaper clippings a lot of them
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are guarding Heather church's case mm-hmm he was in fact arrested that day and charged with murder he would be
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offered eventually actually pretty quickly after the arrest he was offered a deal an offer to his public defender
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this would be so he could avoid the death penalty and this likely may have been the best-case scenario for the
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investigators seeing that at this point when they make this offer all they have as far as evidence goes is his
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fingerprints right later on they did get Brown's wife to admit that he was not home
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the night Heather vanished so we have a fingerprint and we have no solid alibi correct now he brown maintained his
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innocence when he spoke with the police but he did ultimately end up playing guilty to murder this so he could avoid
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the death penalty and trade he got life in prison this move was quite interesting the prosecutor they didn't
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really think that that brown or his attorney would take the bait take the plea deal right
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because again such little evidence they really made a strong push and what they did was they were vetting this guy they
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were calling where they knew he was from this guy had moved around a lot they called his home town where he lived for
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a long period of time and realized that former neighbors of his one of them had gone missing and one of them was
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murdered okay both of those cases unsolved in fact the missing mamani on top of on top of Heather church's case
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correct yeah and so what their threat was we'll call it a threat their threat to the
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defense attorney was he he should probably hurry up and plead guilty to this before we find another body right
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so ultimately that's what took place the prosecutor did check with Heather's parents first to make sure that they
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were okay with them making an offer Heather's mother Diane said if he is willing to plead guilty she is willing
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[Music] all right welcome back cheers everybody Cheers she must be Colonel ooh cheers to you
00:28:56
through the glasses at Krispy they've separated us I feel like I'm in solitary confinement well that's where you belong
00:29:02
all right I can't see you all I do is hear voices mm-hmm so while Robert Brown never confessed to the detectives and
00:29:09
never confessed in court it's believed that he confessed to Susan Lawrence this was his placement counselor and
00:29:17
what he told her she passed along to authorities so let's go through this what what she told the authorities he
00:29:27
said to her she said that he Brown enjoyed roaming his neighborhood at night looking for houses to burglarize
00:29:36
sometimes he would take things sometimes he wouldn't when he went to the church's
00:29:42
residence there were two lights on inside the house and no cars in the driveway and he did not think that
00:29:50
anyone was home he was surprised by Heather Church inside the house and killing her he says was unintentional
00:29:59
Brown said that he did kill Heather inside the home he placed one hand over her mouth and one hand on her neck he
00:30:10
demonstrated this to miss Lawrence when he's telling her this story and said he recalled doing this for only a couple of
00:30:19
seconds he thought but now believes it must have been for a longer period of time he assumed that he had strangled
00:30:29
her because she was dead when it was over mm-hmm now mrs. Lawrence asked Brown if it was possible that he had
00:30:38
broke her neck and to which he replied that that was a possibility yeah because I mean Browns a pretty big guy he's like
00:30:46
6-3 roughly yeah you know Robert Brown said he placed Heather church's body in the back of
00:30:53
his pickup truck and drove to the mountains where he disposed of the body he denied having any sexual contact with
00:31:01
Heather Church alright so BAM boom bang case closed yep get my coat yeah I'm to tip my hat
00:31:11
and ride no pure you locked up you're right captain that is not it because there's much more to this story in 1996
00:31:21
Robert Charles Brown who is supposed to be rotting away in his cell and Colorado
00:31:27
state corrections he receives a letter this is an anonymous letter the letter says you got screwed and here's why
00:31:37
there was something wrong with Colorado state law and from July 9th to September
00:31:44
20th of 1999 I was good up to September 20th of 1991 Colorado was without a death penalty this is truly bizarre
00:32:00
we've never come across anything like this in any of her cases mm-hmm so what that means is when tonight when she was
00:32:10
abducted when Heather was removed from the home technically the state of Colorado for that very brief time period
00:32:18
less than 90 days didn't have the death poem does not have the death penalty so the offer then of hey plead guilty and
00:32:28
we take the death penalty off the table it was never on the table because it didn't exist during the the timeframe in
00:32:34
which she disappeared [ __ ] offer yeah so this gets pointed out to him and now we have the appeals process
00:32:42
whoever's pointing it out to this scumbag yeah why this is also a scumbag let it be he got screwed well good right
00:32:51
unless it was one of those things where the guy was trying to rub it in his face
00:32:56
you know like you're so something you didn't know this yeah I mean but you know what got screwed because the case
00:33:03
took so many years to apprehend somebody right I don't think that the prosecutors did
00:33:10
anything malicious here I don't think they were aware either no like you said it was a small window like 90-day window
00:33:16
yeah it's just one of these weird inconsistencies one of these weird little glitches that was that was going
00:33:23
on there unaware of it so anyway now we have the appeals process he's got a pretty damn good appeal when you think
00:33:30
about it hey I pled guilty to something that only because the death penalty was being thrown in my face in the face in
00:33:39
the face well the current prosecutor the the one that now has to face these appeals comes up with a great plan he
00:33:51
says to the court system look she was abducted on the 17th this whole thing with with the no death
00:33:59
penalty expired on the 20th that's just a couple days later mm-hmm he's also saying it took us all this time to solve
00:34:07
the case she was found over 20 miles away from her home where she was abducted we the Prosecutor's Office believed that
00:34:17
the crime was sexual in nature that the motive was sexual nature and based off of all of that evidence in theory and
00:34:25
thought it is our argument that we cannot say for certain that her murder occurred on the 17th that it's very
00:34:33
likely he may have kept her for a couple of days and the murder occurred on the 20th or even later to this the appeals
00:34:42
courts at least two of them that I could find they agreed with that they said look you can't prove the date of when
00:34:51
she was killed and if you do you know he's in all kinds of trouble and all kinds of mess here because now if you go
00:34:58
back to he proves what day she was killed then he proves that he killed her and he boom he still ends up with life
00:35:05
in prison Brett so I I think that's just truly fascinating and the prosecutor later came out and said look I thought
00:35:14
my argument was a good one but a weak one it was intelligent argument but it was a very weak one he thought that they
00:35:20
would lose turns out that they win this thing got all the way up to I believe the Colorado
00:35:26
Supreme Court state Supreme Court to which I think they tossed it out and said we don't even want to look at this
00:35:33
thing truly when you have a child killer nobody wants this guy to get out on some
00:35:42
kind of technicality well yeah and on top of that you think he's possibly linked to other crimes that's correct
00:35:50
and that's still not the end of our story captain because on March 30th 2008 brought sent an unsolicited letter to
00:36:00
the 4th Judicial District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs the letter was addressed to whom it may concern
00:36:09
inside this letter and I don't have the full letter itself I don't know if the full letter has ever been released to
00:36:16
the public but there is within this letter a statement from Brown this says this is very cryptic seven sacred
00:36:26
virgins entombed side-by-side those less worthy are scattered wide the letter taunted investigators claiming the score
00:36:37
is you won the other team 48 the obvious reference here being that he was arrested tried and convicted of the
00:36:50
murder of Heather Dawn Church they scored one the other team must be him Robert Brown he's got a score of 48 so
00:37:00
obviously he's implying that he's involved in other crimes possibly other murders another statement included in
00:37:09
this letter says if you were to drive to the endzone in a white Trans Am the score could be 9 to 48 that would
00:37:19
complete your home courts fear let's go so real dumbass Brown closed the letter by demanding that he not be contacted
00:37:28
now there was a second letter that was sent well so he sent a letter and then he said don't contact me and here's
00:37:37
an ugly letter they sent another letter yeah the second letter for my understanding I believe even less of
00:37:44
that letter has been reported over the years maybe maybe even some of the statements I just read could have been
00:37:52
from the second letter itself it's all very cryptic his writings and what has been released is it's not clear if it's
00:38:00
if some of the letters are just short and they were released in their entirety and then other letters were longer and
00:38:07
only bits and pieces were actually released but what we do know with the second letter there that one included a
00:38:16
map and we would later learn that the map was he took a piece of paper put it over over a map like in an atlas and
00:38:24
made the outlines of several different states and so he outlined the state of Washington California Colorado New
00:38:34
Mexico Oklahoma Texas Arkansas Mississippi and Louisiana and inside each one of those states that he
00:38:45
outlined he put a number this number totaling up to 48 so almost indicating that with inside this state for instance
00:38:56
state of Washington he wrote the number 1 I've killed one person in the state of
00:39:01
Colorado he put the number 9 in Louisiana the number being the highest of all the numbers was 17 mm-hmm this
00:39:09
captain I believe probably would have went nowhere because he's writing to the district attorney's office in Colorado
00:39:19
Springs they don't seem to have any interest in corresponding with inmate Robert Brown turns out then about two
00:39:31
years later a man named Charlie Hess is going to send a letter to Robert Brown he doesn't know that Robert Brown has in
00:39:40
fact sent these letters already to the district attorney's office Charlie Hesse is a former CIA agent and
00:39:48
he was working with a guy and I say working they were kind of doing this as as a hobby but Charlie has along with
00:39:56
some other individuals were working with Lew Schmitt all these guys were pretty much retired by this time what they
00:40:03
would do is they would get together about once a week they would hang out they would eat pastries drink coffee
00:40:09
smoke cigarettes and they would talk about old cases mm-hm and really what they were focusing on was they were
00:40:16
wanting to take on some cold cases all of these individuals were involved in law enforcement or the CIA at some time
00:40:25
this would be a good group of people to volunteer to take on a cold case now during some of their discussions it
00:40:35
comes up that one of the individuals wants to know hey Lou or anybody here in our group as anybody worked in putting
00:40:47
away a murderer that they believe was truly a very dangerous person that was was a serial killer was one of these
00:40:54
people that had numbers you know multiple murders that they had committed Lou Smith says to his group I always
00:41:05
felt Robert Charles Brown was a serial killer and so much so that when we were working to put him away we were aware
00:41:13
that way back in Louisiana a neighbor of his one went missing and another neighbor was found dead was found
00:41:20
murdered so there's already a bit of a connection I've seen a lot of people cover this portion of the story and a
00:41:31
lot of people have done a good job in doing so but what is usually lost in this Heather churches case is usually
00:41:39
kind of a by the way or a way to kickstart the whole story of Robert Brown and his communications with these
00:41:47
cold-case volunteer investigators right and often it's reported that Lou Schmitt
00:41:54
just had some kind of sixth-sense that he was was a gut feeling that he had been
00:41:59
working the these types of the cases so long that he just had a sixth sense that
00:42:03
Robert Brown was a serial killer he had a he had a sense that Robert Brown was a
00:42:08
serial killer because they were aware of a missing former neighbor of his and a murdered former neighbor of his doesn't
00:42:17
take much to you know you don't have to have a sixth sense to come up with that heathered on church was a neighbor of
00:42:23
his as well so you see a similar type of mo it's really a bit of a shame that when we talk about these cases from
00:42:34
Louisiana I find it strange that within just a handful of months these two cases
00:42:41
take place we have a murder somebody goes missing both of these individuals were neighbors of his but they were
00:42:48
neighbors within the same apartment complex as him and further Robert Brown worked as the maintenance man for this
00:42:58
apartment complex his brother I believe was the owner or the landlord of these apartments it's really strange to me
00:43:07
that they weren't able to make any type of connection I think with the missing woman with her case that the husband was
00:43:15
under suspicion and that would make an obvious reason why you wouldn't connect them but with with the missing woman she
00:43:26
apparently had the doors had the locks on her doors changed the day before by the maintenance man of the apartment
00:43:34
complex who in fact was Robert Brown it seems like there would have been a connection to some of these individuals
00:43:42
yeah and even though Robert Brown claimed that he didn't want to be contacted there'd be a bunch of
00:43:48
corresponding emails for years yeah well letters right and so it's almost like Charlie has kind of befriended Robert
00:43:59
Charles Brown and got him to open up we have a man who says he doesn't want to talk it is in Charley's Arsenal though
00:44:07
that he is aware that look this is the guy that opened up the dialogue he started the
00:44:14
dialogue on some psychological level he does want to talk and so I'm going to work that angle and see what I can get
00:44:21
from him it's interesting that you have a guy a serial killer locked up and I will I will say serial killer because I
00:44:28
believe him to be just that but we have someone like we've seen so many times before now he's coming out playing this
00:44:36
game of I know more than you know and here's all the other bad things that I've done but I'm not going to tell you
00:44:43
all the bad things that I've done I'm going to hint and nudge and wink you through it and you got to figure it out
00:44:50
on your own mm-hmm it's all really truly I mean it's a lot of it I feel is [ __ ] and I don't really want to
00:45:01
waste anybody's time here by going through all of the correspondents because as you said this goes on for
00:45:06
quite some time and really all Charles Hess wants to do is he wants to sit down and speak with Robert Brown face-to-face
00:45:18
that's what Charlie has did in the CIA back in the day of the Vietnam War he was somebody that interviewed people
00:45:26
during wartime he gave lie-detector tests during wartime he is extremely good at
00:45:33
communicating with people getting people to open up getting people to tell the story tell the truth and figuring out
00:45:39
what are the truths and what are the lies with inside their story he eventually through befriending or at
00:45:48
least letting Robert Charles Brown believe that the to our friends got brown to allow him to speak with him
00:45:56
face to face and this all it did was open up correspondence because Brown was giving little hints and winks and nudges
00:46:05
saying I've killed roughly like you said captain I've killed 48 people 47 of them
00:46:11
you don't know about and some of their talks and correspondence he had the number as high as 51 but he was really
00:46:20
giving them nothing to go off of he's like look I um they keep telling him you got to tell
00:46:25
more if you want us to clear any of these cases we can't do anything with this and if you don't give us more
00:46:31
information we don't think you're serious we think that either you're making this [ __ ] up
00:46:35
or you've lost it and you believe it to be true and it's not true at all mm-hmm eventually they get him to talk
00:46:45
and give more details on some of these cases where he will go you know maybe give a nickname of an
00:46:52
individual maybe give a spot where he dumped the body so on and so forth and this leads them to throughout months and
00:47:02
years of working on this this leads them to starting to complete some of the story
00:47:07
now mind you all of the states that he listed that he drew on that map he did live in those states and they could find
00:47:14
evidence that he in fact lived in those states at one point and the three states
00:47:20
that he listed as having the highest number of kills interestingly enough are the three states where he spent the most
00:47:27
time so there was some stuff there was some meat on the bone in the beginning for these investigators to believe that
00:47:34
there could be some truth to Robert Browns story now we know with these Psychopaths and these narcissists none
00:47:44
of this would come without him getting something in return for offering up this information he was unhappy with the way
00:47:52
that he was being treated he did not like where he was being housed and he also didn't feel that he was receiving
00:47:58
proper medical treatment basically he wanted to transfer and again Charlie has pushed him and said we can't help you
00:48:07
unless you help us eventually through a lot of back and forth and through a lot of working and a lot of hard work what
00:48:16
we end up getting is we get another solved case because in July of 2006 Brown pled guilty to the murder of rocío
00:48:26
Sperry this he was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for 40 years now unfortunately this did not
00:48:37
come without Brown getting some in return Brown was then transferred to the state of Minnesota to serve out his
00:48:46
time there what's very weird here captain is I found an interview with Heather church's father Mike and I believe it
00:48:57
was from 2015 or 16 where he had a complaint and a very valid complaint he's saying because of Browns
00:49:07
manipulation of the system because he's working these deals to get moved and and
00:49:13
plead guilty to an unsolved case that he did not know where the killer of his daughter was being housed and he felt
00:49:24
that that was unfair and I agree 100% because at some point Brown was moved and it wasn't public knowledge to know
00:49:34
where he was located I found a letter that is believed I have plenty a reason to believe that it was written by Robert
00:49:44
Brown where he states the at that time he was housed in Florida in the state of Florida and there he is complaining that
00:49:54
they reneged on the plea agreement that he was supposed to be in Minnesota and after being in Minnesota for four years
00:50:03
they transferred him to Florida where he does not want to be and I hope he stays
00:50:08
where he does not want to be welcome to Florida the thing captain that we have here and I do want to say I am very the
00:50:22
thing that I want to say here captain is that I think that is great the work that
00:50:25
Charlie has Lou Smith and all of their little cold-case volunteer work that they did is fantastic yeah I don't want
00:50:34
to say it's all [ __ ] and it's all for naught because they did get a conviction in the rocío speery case and
00:50:40
that was so important not just to get another case off the books not just to get some answers but for so many years
00:50:46
her husband was thought to be the one that was guilty of her disappearance and we now know that that's not true
00:50:54
mm-hmm and that guy was a victim himself not just from being the husband of a murder victim but he was a victim of
00:51:03
being thought of as being guilty of her disappearance and her murder for so many
00:51:10
years so I'm very glad and very happy that they got that one off the books I do think that a lot of Browns
00:51:18
communication and a lot of what he hints at we talked about a number of 48 possible victims I think that that's
00:51:25
total bogus bogus I think it's a bogus number that he came up with we're talking about he's saying this in the
00:51:34
early 2000s and at the time I believe a number of 48 would put him at the highest number for a serial killer
00:51:42
that's who he wants to be he's never been anybody important he wants to be somebody important and he
00:51:49
does not mind the attention why because he is so guilty of heathered on church's
00:51:55
murder and now he's locked up in a place he does not want to be for life and he has nothing to do he is to put it
00:52:03
quite frankly he is bored everything that he did when he was on the outside a lot of it being illegal a lot of it
00:52:11
being perverted deviant behavior he cannot do now and so he's come up with some kind of game to pass the time he's
00:52:18
come up with a number that makes him important when he is not I also think that part of this game is he feels
00:52:27
screwed by the prosecutor by the District Attorney's Office of Colorado that because he as you said was dumb
00:52:39
enough to one not give a good reason why he would have been at the church's house
00:52:43
two didn't lawyer up three agree to a polygraph test in which he failed and then four please guilty so he can avoid
00:52:54
the death penalty yet there was no death penalty yeah so welcome to Florida dumbass I think he feels tricked because
00:53:02
he was he was an idiot he was stupid he was a [ __ ] he feels tricked and now his way of retaliating is to
00:53:11
send them on this wild goose chase keep in mind who did he direct his letter to he didn't send it to the media he didn't
00:53:20
send it to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office he sent it to the district attorney's office the same district
00:53:26
attorney's office that was able to put him in prison for life for the death for the murder of Heather Don Church now I
00:53:36
do believe with inside this 48 this magical number of 48 captain I do believe that there are some other
00:53:43
victims in there of note of of note of ones that he actually provided some detailed information this would be the
00:53:54
murder of Katherine Hayes from Louisiana Wanda Hudson and face self also of Louisiana melody Bush and Nydia Mendoza
00:54:07
both from Texas and then Lisa Lowe who was killed in Arkansas so while I do feel that a lot of his stuff is probably
00:54:18
[ __ ] I would love to see some further movement on some of these other cases where there was some detailed
00:54:26
information provided by Robert Brown unfortunately loose mitt has passed away he passed away he had cancer and by the
00:54:36
time the cancer was found it spread to his entire body yeah but I agree a lot of good work here and Robert Charles
00:54:43
Brown deserves any bad thing that's coming his way the other thing about his if you want to try to call them
00:54:52
confessions regarding these murders even the ones where he offers detailed information what you will see is him
00:55:03
minimizing his involvement him minimizing his role in the murder of these individuals I personally believe
00:55:12
that most of his murders if not all of them were sexual in nature they they seem to be that that was the
00:55:20
the driving force for his actions I don't know about when he set out to enter the home to heathered on church's
00:55:30
house but what I will say here regarding his [ __ ] confession that he offered up to his placement counselor what do
00:55:40
you see there straight up minimizes his involvement in the whole situation it makes it it's all
00:55:47
so confusing to him he killed her he didn't even really know why he killed her he didn't he didn't intend to kill
00:55:53
her and I think that is absolute BS I think that there's a lot of evidence that will show that there was no reason
00:56:01
for him to remove her from that house his confession somewhat makes it sound like she surprised him and he reacted
00:56:11
and before he could realize what was going on she was dead there's evidence to suggest that she may have been
00:56:18
sleeping when he came upon her that night great and if he was afraid or got scared all of sudden because he entered
00:56:26
a home that he thought was empty and he reacted and that was the result you just
00:56:31
can't believe that because if she was sleeping he had the opportunity to be afraid and then leave the home after he
00:56:39
was in the home and when he left there the only thing that was missing from that home was that little girl
00:56:49
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slash garage a lot of really good sources for this case here captain one of the better ones is the newspaper The
00:57:44
Gazette they covered this case pretty extensively over the years and did a very good job one of the best sources is
00:57:52
this week's recommended reading it's a book titled the devil's right-hand man the true story of serial killer Robert
00:58:00
Charles Brown you can write that title down now so you can pick that up and find out more if you're busy just go to
00:58:08
our web site later go to our recommended page go to true crime garage com we will
00:58:14
have that title there for you so you can make that selection and add that to your
00:58:19
library we want to thank everybody for listening we want to thank everybody for the wonderful 5-star reviews and we want
00:58:27
to thank you all for telling your friends about true crime garage until next time be good be kind don't let it
00:58:36
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