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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has never quit just like Jason Whitten he is the
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captain but if you send me beer I'm always smitten it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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Banger Maine so thanks to everybody for going to True Crim garage.com and helping us out with this week's beer
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fund and for all of our old episodes check us out on the Stitcher app they're free download the Stitcher app
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totally free you're going to want to make sure you check that out all right captain that is enough of the business
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Applause]
00:03:31
[Music] [Music] tonight new information on the death of a local cyclist who went missing last
00:03:59
Thursday in the Palmer Lake Area Al pasel County Sheriff's investigators have upgraded
00:04:04
the death of Tim Watkins to a homicide and they've just told news5 he was shot to death his body found Sunday in the
00:04:11
very place where he loved to ride a lot of questions unanswered tonight so we turn to news 5's Lena Howland live in
00:04:17
Palmer Lake what have you learned Lena in the heart of Palmer Lake this news has everyone on edge here tonight with a
00:04:25
strong warning from the Sheriff's Office to remain vigilant and it's a small town it's you
00:04:31
know you feel safe in a town like this that's why people move here that feeling of safety in the far distance for
00:04:37
Neighbors like David tenise who has lived here in the Palmer Lake area for four years now a little bit scary just
00:04:43
to think about if somebody would Ambush you or um you know who knows what could happen and the kids you know just
00:04:53
playing in the neighborhood in general with that's that's scary to know the body of his friend friendly and
00:05:00
well-known neighbor 6-year-old Tim Watkins was found by a civilian in the Melt Herman area on Sunday morning
00:05:07
search and rescue crews had found his shoe and biked nearby the day before but the search was called off when the sun
00:05:14
went down today though this death investigation upgraded to a homicide it was very surprising especially for an
00:05:21
area like this where everybody walks around and kids bike around all the time and we've never really had to worry
00:05:28
about something like this before now 12-year-old Amelia tenise has taken a break from her bike and a break from
00:05:35
being outside now me and my friends are too afraid to go on bike rides anymore because since nobody was found yet it's
00:05:44
really scary I just think it's really sad and um heartbreaking to hear that cuz that doesn't happen up here very
00:05:50
often at all watkins's body was found in a popular Recreation Area used by a lot of
00:05:57
people our family goes up there with our dog and we take hikes and um it's a beautiful area and our our school does
00:06:04
cross country runs up there so the kids are up there it's a it's a great Trail but sad to know that that could be a
00:06:10
possibility of what happened up there and with no suspects right now the sheriff's office is asking the community
00:06:16
to remain on higher alert if they see anything out of the ordinary to please give the Sheriff's Office a call no tip
00:06:24
is too small even if you think it is irrelevant please let us decide that again the Sheriff's Office says
00:06:31
vigilance is key here if you see anything suspicious or out of the ordinary in your neighborhood you are
00:06:38
asked to contact them right away again there is no suspect information at this time for now watching out for you in
00:06:45
Palmer Lake Lena howlands news5 Lena thanks and friends of his turned out at the Red Rocks open space tonight for a
00:06:52
final ride for Tim as they called it a mechanic by trade but described by his friends as a great guy vibrant
00:06:58
personality someone who would do anything for you and one of his closest friends recalled
00:07:03
for us the last conversation he had with Tim we were planning to do a ride one of
00:07:08
his favorite rides it's called the airplane ride and actually rides up limbo Canyon towards a old wrecked
00:07:15
airplane and unfortunately we never made that happen and just kind of reminded me
00:07:21
when to make plans with someone that's important just do it while you can her thoughts with Tim's family and
00:07:28
friends tonight during this difficult time we will continue to track the investigation bring you updates on air
00:07:33
and online at koa.com this week we are discussing an unsolved case and we will be talking about a man
00:07:53
named Tim Watkins now each week we take on a new case and in doing so essentially we are taking a a glimpse
00:08:00
into someone's life their family's lives as well as friends in the community this
00:08:05
week when looking into Tim Watkins life and learning about him I learned had I lived in that area in Palmer Lake
00:08:13
Colorado I feel like Tim would have been a guy that I would have liked and found
00:08:17
quite interesting I'm always intrigued by people that are pretty hardcore into their Hobbies yeah and Tim was 60 but he
00:08:26
did not look 60 at all he looked easily in his 40s yes and extremely physically fit mhm now the day in question it was a
00:08:36
warm Thursday morning in September when Tim Watkins as you said age 60 he sets out on his regular ride in Palmer Lake
00:08:45
Colorado Palmer Lake and its nearby town of Monument are about 20 mi outside of Colorado Springs it's a conservative
00:08:53
military oriented city that is home to a US Air Force Academy to say that Tim was
00:08:59
an experienced mountain biker is like saying Tom Brady played a little football yeah yeah Tim's life was
00:09:06
mountain biking at one time Tim owned and operated a well-known bike shop in the area and he actually helped to
00:09:13
create and maintain the bike trail Network that carved through the rugged hilly terrain of Mount Herman connecting
00:09:20
Monument Palmer Lake and the surrounding woodlands and canyons Tim and his buddies even fell trees to create
00:09:28
makeshift bike bridges over Monument Creek Tim was the person responsible for drawing the most popular map of the bike
00:09:37
trail Network and some Trails bore his name Tim and his wife lived just a few blocks from the trail Network that
00:09:45
crisscross Pike and San Isabel National Force on this day Tim set out up the steady ascending Mount Herman Road which
00:09:53
is not a paved highway but an unpaved two-lane track now we know which way he went because at some point on Mount
00:10:01
Herman Road in the Hills above Monument Tim's phone butt dialed a friend and Tim
00:10:07
had to stop his ride and say hello this is the last known conversation anyone had with Tim Watkins so who is Tim
00:10:16
Watkins well Tim was born on November 17th 1956 in Fort Collins Colorado and moved to Palmer Lake when he was very
00:10:24
young as a kid he raced around his hometown on his dad's black relay 3 speed at College he earned a degree in
00:10:32
education afterward he worked in the ski patrol Tim loved Adventure he loved everything outdoors he spent a lot of
00:10:41
time learning survival skills hunting and fishing most of these skills he learned from his father Virgil Tim and
00:10:48
his first wife had two kids together and they they had their kids when they were
00:10:52
quite young Ariel and Isaac were very close to their father even though Tim and his first wife divorce back in
00:11:01
1993 Tim started his bike shop Balanced Rock Bike and Ski in Monument around the
00:11:07
year 2000 with his second wife and he ran it for several years but he was a bike guy not a businessman so the shop
00:11:16
eventually closed and Tim and his wife divorced Tim's income from that point on was comprised of money he made working
00:11:25
in other bike shops in the area and he worked for a Time for the school district with special needs children Tim
00:11:33
knew his third wife Ginger who was 10 years younger than him since they were kids growing up in Palmer Lake but Tim
00:11:40
didn't pay any attention to her until much later when as an adult Ginger walked into a bike shop he was working
00:11:48
in with a Colorado built Performance Bike called a Yeti Yeah Tim and ginger are going to get married in
00:11:54
2015 together they loved to Camp Bike and Ski Tim was a a tall lanky curly-haired redhead he was known for
00:12:02
being a great caring friendly guy he had a naughty sense of humor and he loved to
00:12:08
have fun now Tim was in a very bad accident in 1987 that left his feet and ankles mangled this meant he no longer
00:12:18
could run or hike so biking became an outlet for his energy and turned into his passion Tim was very involved in his
00:12:27
church and had an affinity for Native American traditions and rituals and he loved to work with leather and Beads and
00:12:35
make jewelry and other artwork for his friends Tim lived outside as much as possible he would often sleep in tents I
00:12:43
mean this guy really did as much as he could in The Great Outdoors yeah if you have any outdoorsy friend of yours this
00:12:50
is kind of how they they operate I had a buddy one time that stayed in a teepee for a whole week because he thought it
00:12:57
would be a little more fun and staying in the cabin in September of 2017 Tim and ginger were having some problems
00:13:05
they loved each other but Tim's lack of steady income caused tension in the marriage so we have Tim who seems to
00:13:13
always be chin deep in something that he loves mountain biking but then you have
00:13:18
his wife Ginger who is working six days a week and putting in long hours each day as a medical imaging technician
00:13:26
right in recent weeks she told Tim that she needed a break and she actually asked him to move out for a while Tim
00:13:34
took to sleeping in his car at various Trail heads and living in a tent Tim at some point told his son Isaac that he
00:13:42
was very depressed and that if it weren't for his kids he might contemplate suicide Tim was also suffering from
00:13:50
memory loss that was getting worse and worse and this was very frustrating for him for those of you who've watched
00:13:57
season 3 of True Detective if you know what we're talking about here mhm on the day before he disappeared Tim asked
00:14:03
Ginger if he could come home see the next day was her birthday and he wanted to spend that day with her Ginger said
00:14:11
yes and he spent the night at the couple's house the two made plans to celebrate their upcoming anniversary
00:14:18
which I believe was just a few days after her birthday the next morning Thursday September 14th Ginger left for
00:14:25
work and Tim set out we believe around around 10:30 a.m. on a bike ride he had the single phone conversation around
00:14:34
11:00 a.m. with the friend that he accidentally called and after that no one heard from him now Ginger returned
00:14:41
from work around 8:30 p.m. expecting a small birthday celebration with her husband she noticed that Tim and his
00:14:49
bike were gone but his car was in the driveway now knowing that Tim would not be he still wouldn't be writing at this
00:14:57
time because he had notoriously bad night vision right so she text him but she gets no
00:15:03
response assuming he was with his either his parents or his son Ginger fell asleep you know mind you she's just put
00:15:11
in a very long day at work right she woke up at 6:00 a.m. the next morning to find that Tim was still unheard
00:15:19
from after sending yet another unanswered text she left for work around 10:00 a.m. she called the Oldtown Bike
00:15:27
Shop in Colorado Springs to see if Tim had showed up for work he had not Ginger knew that this was extremely
00:15:35
unlike Tim a few hours later Isaac Watkins called asking if she knew where his dad was now Ginger began to be very
00:15:46
worried at this point mm she called The Palmer Lake Police Department but was told by Chief Jason
00:15:53
Vanderpool that Tim's disappearance didn't rise to the criteria for a missing person's report until Saturday
00:16:00
after 48 Hours had elapsed right a grown man goes off on his own and he's riding
00:16:07
his bike we don't know where he's going maybe he wanted it to be missing yeah and you know what if if the
00:16:14
police chief is getting the full story when she calls in panicking saying hey I haven't seen my husband in quite some
00:16:21
time right if he knows that the marriage was having some issues mhm and ALS so if
00:16:28
he knows that Tim is an outdoor guy who has been known especially in the past few weeks to sleep in his car or sleep
00:16:35
in a tent this is not really going to I have to agree with the chief here this doesn't really rise to the criteria of
00:16:43
we should panic and this is a missing person but the red flag for me would be the memory loss yes and and very true
00:16:51
and but if that is not played heavily onto the the chief than was he supposed to do right right well Ginger and Isaac
00:17:01
they were not going to stop looking for their you know Ginger's husband and Isaac's father and actually Isaac began
00:17:08
searching the hills above Palmer Lake this is where he thought his father had likely gone by himself Isaac worried
00:17:16
that his father may have actually carried through on his thoughts of suicide remember they had this
00:17:22
conversation at some point on Saturday Ginger made a public plea on Facebook to help find Tim pretty much everyone in
00:17:33
the area and certainly everyone even remotely connected to the biking Community they knew and they liked him
00:17:41
so 60 people gathered at the Palmer Lake Town Hall and organized grid searches among the network of trails from there
00:17:50
11 private search parties set out Fanning out over several square miles of forest and around 2:00 p.m. one of the
00:17:57
Searchers is is going to find a shoe yeah this is near the entrance to the popular limo Trail which leads into
00:18:05
limbo Canyon one of Tim's favorite places to ride and a trail that he helped construct the shoe was found on
00:18:12
the side of Mount Herman Road near a beer can and it was Tim's size the shoe found was a size 42 Pearl isumi bike
00:18:22
shoe and I apologize to the bike Enthusiast if I mispronounced that that brand name
00:18:29
it's the kind of shoe that clips into the bike pedals yeah so for those who don't know these are special shoes
00:18:36
designed to help the rider rotate the pedals more efficiently while the shoes fastened to the pedals they aren't
00:18:43
designed for actual walking no these would be very difficult to walk in but what I could find
00:18:50
definitively was that for Tim it's beli for Tim who had disfigured feet because of the accident walking in the shoe
00:18:57
would have been preferable to attempting to walk or run in his bare feet okay so
00:19:03
finding the shoe is is not a great sign later other volunteers spotted some items scattered up near Mount Herman
00:19:11
Road about a half mile Northwest from the shoe these were some of the contents of
00:19:17
Tim's wallet specifically his Safeway card some of his other cards and his cell phone
00:19:25
case these were found past limbal trail head heading away from Palmer Lake then another team spotted Tim's Bike off a
00:19:35
trail this titanium bike was specifically designed for Tim by his longtime friend Jeff Tessier right but a
00:19:43
lot of people that are really deep into this hobby will have a custom bike just for themselves yes and and this one was
00:19:50
unique as it was custom built for Tim Watkins it was immediately recognizable to those who knew Tim so so I mean the
00:19:59
people that knew him immediately they spot the bike and they're like that's Tim's Bike there's no question and this
00:20:05
would have raised alarms big time if anyone else would have been spotted riding this bike or attempting to sell
00:20:12
it at any point the bike was located it was about a quar mile north of where the
00:20:19
limbo Canyon Trail breaks off from Mount Herman Road 50 ft uphill from the forest
00:20:25
service Trail this is not an area that is accessible to cars the bike didn't provide any answers though it was laid
00:20:34
down on its side next to a tree now it could have been placed there or it could have fallen there but the bike did have
00:20:43
a flat tire and the gearing suggested that Tim was going downhill when he stopped riding the bike after the bike
00:20:51
was located law enforcement began searching for Tim the Assumption was that Tim was injured somewhere
00:20:58
possibly due to a bike accident or even an animal attack in fact Tim once had a very close runin with a mountain lion
00:21:07
and there are bears in this area El Paso County search and rescue used blood hounds to comb the area for
00:21:14
Tim sent a local group of drone operators pitched in providing aerial footage through Saturday night Searchers
00:21:23
and volunteers found nothing else so well over 48 hours since anyone has last seen or spoke to Tim well I I mean
00:21:31
you're actually over the 60h hour mark by this point right and now we have found Tim's Bike and a lot of his
00:21:39
belongings but still no Tim yeah not good the next day on Sunday around 11:45 a.m. Tim was found dead they found the
00:21:48
body not 50 ft from where his bike was found and 40 yard west of the mouth of the limbo Canyon Trail initially
00:21:57
searchers missed finding him they were in that area Tim's body was found lying in a shallow 4tx 3T old mineral
00:22:06
prospector's hole and his body was kind of covered up with branches and leaves Tim's body was deliberately obscured one
00:22:15
of the Searchers said quote hold on so what you're saying is 50 yards from his bike where they're searching mhm they
00:22:21
find Tim basically in a hole mhm a Nature Made hole but covered up well a prospector's hole okay so a mineral
00:22:32
prospector's hole this is a shallow hole that that somebody would have used to to
00:22:37
try to find something you know some type of mineral maybe be it gold or or any other type of mineral right so he's he's
00:22:44
in this hole but it looks like somebody covered him up that he wasn't covered up
00:22:49
just by the elements no cuz the way that this is stated is he's covered with branches and Le leaves and the people
00:23:00
that were there at the scene they state that he was deliberately obscured that it wasn't like these branches and leaves
00:23:08
just happen to fall yeah on top of him it looked like somebody had placed them there and one of the Searchers said in
00:23:15
regards to where Tim was found he said quote literally we could have walked on top of Tim yesterday that's how close we
00:23:24
were to where his body was so when they say deliberately obscured these people I
00:23:31
mean they're outside looking for some of them are friends with Tim they're outside looking for their friend he must
00:23:37
have been covered up pretty well yeah is what I'm guessing so we talked about Tim's items and belongings that were
00:23:45
found by Searchers now let's talk about what items of Tims that were not found and this was Tim's hydration pack his
00:23:55
jacket his helmet his phone and his socks in one of his shoes remember only one shoe was found we
00:24:05
don't know about the cycling gloves and I threw this in here because based off of photos that I could find it seems
00:24:13
like Tim usually wore gloves and that seems to be a pretty common thing right but none of the articles ever mention
00:24:21
whether the gloves were found or not found right Tim's backpack was still on him containing a single banana it's
00:24:28
actually believed that uh that would lead to some kind of indication of leading you to to a better time frame of
00:24:36
whatever happened when it happened because he would he would have stopped for a snack at some point on this trip
00:24:44
but he did not as it was found still in his backpack now the area where his body
00:24:49
lay was wooded uh hard to get to and had no cell service so how did Tim die at first police did not not publicly reveal
00:24:58
the cause of death leaving the town's people to speculate and leading to rumors and gossip
00:25:05
spreading stories circulated about animal attacks and car versus bike collisions in fact Tim's autopsy results
00:25:14
have never been released despite a lawsuit brought by the Colorado Springs Gazette seeking their
00:25:22
unsealing so we don't know any details as to specific injuries Tim Might have sustained but we do know something very
00:25:31
important Tim Watkins was shot police on the scene discovered that Tim's beloved
00:25:38
mountain bike had a flat tire right it had been shot through by a bullet now cbs's Denver station reported on
00:25:46
September 19th that Tim had been shot quote several times other news sources stated it was quote multiple times
00:25:54
outside online magazine reported the following in November of 2018 according to sources familiar with
00:26:03
the investigation Watkins had been shot in three places and buried beneath logs and branches in a shallow depression 40
00:26:11
yards west of the limbal cannon Trail bullets had grazed his ear and injured his hand the likely fatal shot
00:26:20
from a 22 caliber entered near his ribs and never exited closer examination of his front Tire later revealed that it
00:26:29
had also been shot Watkins is the first mountain biker known to have been murdered during a ride and again that's
00:26:36
from outside online magazine yeah which raises even more questions additionally there was a long story in The Gazette
00:26:44
about the case where they interviewed a friend of Tim's who observed his body and describes it as quote pockmarked
00:26:51
with bullet holes but the El Paso County Sheriff has never confirmed the number of bullet holes or that a 22 was used
00:27:00
right the bullet that went into Tim's torso was removed and examined for potential ballistics matches but it was
00:27:07
determined that the bullet was too mangled to be usable for these type of tests and of course since the shooting
00:27:14
occurred in The Great Outdoors it's it was difficult if not impossible for investigators to find any shell casings
00:27:22
now if they did find any casings they aren't telling us but what investigate saw the shotout bike tire the
00:27:30
bullet-ridden body hidden in a depression and covered with foliage was enough for Tim Watkins death to be
00:27:36
declared a homicide the hiking biking camping and generally outdoorsy Community around Mount Herman was
00:27:43
shocked and terrified by the news that one of their own had been mowed down while doing what they loved riding his
00:27:56
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that all right we're back Cheers matate Cheers Captain it's very important in this case to discuss the location of
00:30:14
where Tim's body was found and the the setting in general so Mount Herman is on the outskirts of Colorado Springs it's a
00:30:24
very big hunting and gun community most people in the area own guns and open air
00:30:30
sport shooting at makeshift ranges was rampant and completely unregulated as a result bullets were
00:30:37
whizzing around in the air in public Recreation spaces locals voiced concern that accidental shootings were
00:30:45
inevitable in this kind of situation Tim and his son like many in the area had firsthand experiences with
00:30:54
this for example about 10 years before Tim was killed Tim and Isaac were backpacking and suddenly bullets
00:31:01
whistled by Isaac's head and ricocheted off of a boulder near misses like this were fairly common other mountain bikers
00:31:10
told stories of bullets hitting the trail in front of them as they navigated a narrow mountain bike trail right so
00:31:17
then you start wondering in this case is he accidentally hit by a bullet and then do
00:31:23
they try to cover it up or or as he hit where he's injured badly and then they you know come up upon him and his
00:31:34
life and then try to move him out of the way so he's not found yeah it's pretty interesting well
00:31:43
this is all going to lead to them trying to put an end to some of this just you know people shooting their guns off out
00:31:51
in these these Recreation spaces and there's another story um that I came across this one from 2014 when a couple
00:31:59
reported that while they were out picnicking their jeep was hit with gunfire So Stories like this about close
00:32:06
calls with unregulated gunfire they did cause the forest service to finally ban recreational shooting in the Mount
00:32:13
Herman area this took place later in 2014 the ban cited weekly complaints of bullets barely missing people and 911
00:32:24
reports of Trail users being pinned down by gunfire according to outside online magazine within days of the Ban's
00:32:34
implementation signs announcing it was announcing the ban were peppered by gunfire likely from protesting Shooters
00:32:42
right within Weeks Forest Service Personnel issued about 80 warnings to people found shooting in defiance of the
00:32:50
ban yeah this is this is strange to me because anybody that I know that owns a gun they're very responsible with their
00:32:58
guns mhm and they would not be shooting in areas that somebody could accidentally get hit well while some in
00:33:06
the area say that the band did cut down on random shooting others say it largely
00:33:12
went unheated and unenforced one state senator who was a friend of Tim's describes biking with
00:33:19
his sons and seeing a dad and his kids shooting right at a no shooting sign and menacing him and his sons when he
00:33:28
reminded them of the ban and in 2015 a 60-year-old grandfather named Glenn Martin was killed by an errant bullet
00:33:37
while camping with his family roughly 20 miles from where Watkins was shot Martin's killer has never been
00:33:45
found Tim's friends and family say that while he was not confrontational and was always friendly
00:33:51
he often stopped and asked people firing their guns to be more cautious warning them that they you know they're biking
00:33:59
and their hiking trails in their bullets range one riding partner friend of Tims
00:34:05
said quote I witnessed him with a shooter multiple times he was very friendly he wrote up and said hey guys
00:34:12
I'm not against shooting or anything but I just want to let you know that there's
00:34:17
a trail right down below where your bullets are going usually according to this person
00:34:24
they'd say oh okay I didn't realize there's a trail down there and we'll make sure that we're shooting
00:34:29
into a back stop right one of Tim's favorite spots to bike to on his mountain biking excursions is called
00:34:37
Shooters Alley which is a popular popular shooting site dotted with shot up tattered stuffed animals shredded
00:34:45
trees and what's left of paper targets from Shooters Alley a mountain bike trail leads downhill into a four-way
00:34:54
Trail intersection with Trail 750 this is near where Tim's body was found so while Tim had no known enemies his
00:35:03
family believed it is possible that Tim had approached the wrong person with his
00:35:07
simple request to stop shooting and then had been shot the fact that Tim was shot
00:35:12
at least three times according to Media reports anyway and his bike tire also shot this ruled out an accidental
00:35:21
shooting in the minds of most people right like you said it could have been accidental in the beginning but that's
00:35:27
not how it ended right there were other dangers in the woods of Mount Herman other than haphazard shooting Colorado
00:35:35
legalized marijuana in 2012 and I mean whether it's a direct result or coincidentally the number of homeless
00:35:43
transient and Drifters who descended on the unsettled areas of the state skyrocketed news articles started to
00:35:50
crop up about the homeless and transient Drifter problem doubling to quadrupling
00:35:57
as outside online magazine described the setting Mount Herman had long been known
00:36:01
for its Backcountry conflicts Bullets whizzed Over makeshift shooting ranges reports of drinking and drug use were
00:36:08
common creating a sense of Menace as drivers whipped around blind curves even if the sound of gunshots have quieted
00:36:17
the sight of homeless camps have created their own tension mountain bikers complain of abandoned camps resembling
00:36:24
landfills and of eroding sense of safety as the area's homeless population grows
00:36:30
some say enforcement of the forest Services ban on living in National Forest land is lacking as is ticketing
00:36:37
for campers who remain in one place longer than two weeks so Tim was all too aware of the
00:36:45
destruction caused by these illegal activities he was one of the people who took it upon themselves to clean up the
00:36:51
broken TVs old couches and other trash left behind by the homeless yeah who lived in the campsites illegally and
00:37:01
human waste was a problem as well as these camps were not often near sanitary facilities and often these homeless
00:37:09
encampments would be littered with used needles Tim's family said that Tim was not one to take violations of the law
00:37:17
dangerous behavior and destroying of his his beloved natural environment lightly
00:37:23
yeah if he saw cars driving recklessly close to cyclist on Mount Herman Road he'd be likely to flip them the bird or
00:37:31
shout something he probably would have said something to Campers or homeless who were littering right so now we have
00:37:39
the idea that possibly you got an accidental shooting that then becomes not accidental or the idea that that
00:37:46
somebody is shooting onto a trail and Tim stops and says hey guys don't shoot on this Trail and then it turns bad we
00:37:53
have this other layer of somebody s squading in that area doing something strange and he stops to tell tell them
00:38:03
not to do that yeah yeah well and there's this very strange twist to the Tim Watkins case several Searchers
00:38:11
volunteering in the hunt for Tim Watkins noticed a beat up red car with Indiana plates slowly and repeatedly driving
00:38:19
past various search areas along Mount Herman Road as if the driver was there to take a closer look or to see what's
00:38:26
going on right one of the Searchers snapped a photo of the red sedan driving past the turnout at limbal Canyon near
00:38:35
where Tim's body was ultimately found the Searcher said he became suspicious when the car drove by more
00:38:42
than once well also a little more suspicious because like you said it has Indiana license plates and they're in
00:38:49
Colorado mhm well they quickly forgot about the incident this being in the wake of finding and discovering Tim's
00:38:57
body but within days reports circulated that a man was threatening people with a
00:39:02
hatchet on the trails near where Tim was found on September 25th police in Woodland Park which is 20 mi down Mount
00:39:12
Herman Road from Monument announced an arrest of a transient police spotted a vehicle the vehicle that we just
00:39:20
discussed which matched the description of the one driven by the hatchet man they saw this vehicle in an Arby's
00:39:28
parking lot they waited to see who got into the car and then pulled the car over for expired Indiana plates and a
00:39:35
broken tail light driving the red Chevy Prism was a 31-year-old man named Daniel
00:39:42
Nations they arrested him for quote unrelated weapons charges but Mount Herman residents took notice when the
00:39:50
Sheriff's Office also charged nations with felony menacing according to the arrest affid David Nations accosted and
00:39:58
threatened a passing dirt biker with a hatchet at his campsite on Mount Herman Road after placing logs in the road that
00:40:06
forced the rider to stop Nations blocked off the road with logs seized a hatchet
00:40:12
and brandished it at the dirt bike rider saying his bike was too loud the rider turned around and sped away and reported
00:40:19
the incident officers searched nation's car and found a hatchet and a 22 caliber
00:40:26
rifle possibly the same caliber bullet that killed Tim Watkins although this has
00:40:31
never been confirmed by law enforcement right in addition to these formal charges it seems that there were several
00:40:37
other reports of threatened violence and menacing against Daniel Nations for example detective Jason Darby of El Paso
00:40:47
County Sheriff's Office told outside online magazine that Nations acted aggressively during a road rage incident
00:40:54
in Monument around the same time Nations got out of his vehicle confronted another driver and ended up kicking and
00:41:01
breaking their windshield they added that the incident escalated very quickly in addition the media reported that
00:41:09
several complaints had been filed about a man menacing mountain bikers with a hatchet one friend of Tim's posted on a
00:41:17
mountain biking Forum that his son and some of his mountain biking buddies encountered a beat up red four-door
00:41:25
sedan in the road that drove off the road into the bushes and when they stopped to see if the driver was okay he
00:41:33
came out at them with a hatchet they reported the incident to the sheriff now nation's wife and two young children
00:41:42
were with him at the time of his arrest and a background check on Nations revealed that he had a criminal
00:41:48
background including felony convictions for domestic battery in front of a child
00:41:54
and a sexual offense both both in Morgan County Indiana Nations also has convictions for
00:42:01
indecent exposure and had habitual drunk driving in South Carolina the report also notes that
00:42:09
Nations was charged multiple times with domestic violence because of his felony history Nations cannot legally own a
00:42:17
firearm but he seems to be in possession of one right I mean this there's so many
00:42:21
red flags here not to mention that he's waving a hatchet around to bikers on on a bike path mhm so police also charged
00:42:30
him with felony possession of a firearm and since the threats against hikers and
00:42:34
bikers took place in El Paso County Police there charged him with felony menacing reckless endangerment assault
00:42:41
and trespassing finally on October 10th final charges on suspicion of failing to
00:42:47
register as a sex offender were filed against Daniel Nations well and he's checking a lot of boxes so one we have
00:42:55
this guy that that obviously something's wrong with him mentally we have something happening with him as far as
00:43:02
being a sex offender he's from Indiana he is attacking people on these hiking trails in the nature or
00:43:12
threatening to attack people right but I mean look if you set up logs so somebody
00:43:18
has to stop so you can't conf front of him that's we're getting dangerous here he has a gun on him this guy has a
00:43:26
history and we have a case that's happening back in Indiana with two dead girls and he kind
00:43:36
of looks like the composite drawing MH yeah that's what's weird about this portion of the Watkins case because
00:43:44
initially when Nations is picked up he he's actually picked up on possible suspicion of some kind of involvement in
00:43:52
the Tim Watkins murder case and then that quickly leads to the suspicion that he could be could have been involved in
00:44:00
another much more prominent case as you know his mugshot is circulated from being picked up in Colorado and then in
00:44:08
the minds of many who see his mug shot say that he resembled a wanted suspect and resembled the composite sketch from
00:44:16
the unsolved double homicide case known as the deli murders case in Indiana now Nations recently lived in Indiana and
00:44:26
and of course we covered the February 2017 Deli murders case back in May of 2017 in episodes 110 and
00:44:36
111 it seems so far ago it does seem a very long time ago so what do we know that could possibly tie Daniel Nations
00:44:45
to that of the deli murders right the murders of uh two young girls Libby and Abby so for one thing it's his last
00:44:54
known address in Indiana it it is not far from where the girls were found about 60 M the girls were taken on a
00:45:02
trail used for hiking and biking similar to the case with Tim Watkins and the people Nations threatened with his
00:45:10
Hatchet Libby and Abby and Tim were all found in relatively inaccessible areas located off trails the creek Ravine for
00:45:19
the girls and the canyon for Tim now the cause of death in Liberty germains and Abigail William case has never been
00:45:27
officially released we don't know if they were shot or whether a hatchet might have been involved but whatever it
00:45:35
is or whatever it was in combination with the mugshot composite similarities of Daniel nation's former residents in
00:45:44
Indiana and a criminal history it was enough to make investigators in the deli murders fly to Colorado to interview
00:45:52
Daniel Nations it emerged in the media that Indian State Police had actually been
00:45:57
looking for nations in connection possibly in connection with the deli case starting around July of
00:46:05
2017 when it was noted that Nations had failed to check in as a sex offender in Carrol County for more than two months
00:46:13
so he left for Colorado in May and failed to notify anyone that he was leaving the state of
00:46:20
Indiana in response to all the tips that the Indiana State Police received about
00:46:25
Daniel n based on his mug shot they released the following statement we are aware of the arrest of the person in
00:46:33
Colorado and are investigating to see if he could be a suspect in the deli double
00:46:38
murder investigation please keep in mind the Indiana State Police has received more
00:46:44
than a thousand photos of persons alleged to be similar in appearance to the composite sketch of the deli Person
00:46:52
of Interest right each and every one of these tips are investigated for any potential connection to our case we will
00:47:00
give the same attention to the person arrested in Colorado but right now there is nothing that definitively connects
00:47:07
this person to our investigation all right so just looking at the picture of Daniels the composite drawing what's
00:47:16
your initial thoughts on that um you know I think the way that I said this before when we've discussed it on off
00:47:23
the Record is I feel like the close-up mug shot of Daniel Nations does look to me like the composite sketch there are
00:47:32
some similarities there however I don't know that he when in comparison to the the picture of the bridge guy which is
00:47:42
ultimately what they're going to use to form their composite sketch of I think he resembles the sketch but I
00:47:48
don't think he resembles the picture of the bridge guy does that make sense is that yeah yeah okay and I would agree I
00:47:53
mean it seems like his build because Daniel wasn't as big of a guy but again it's a picture from Snapchat
00:48:02
that we don't really know like it's on a bridge so it's really hard to tell is is
00:48:07
is is this person tall are they short it's really hard to determine but I agree I think the build doesn't match
00:48:16
Daniels yeah and you know what I did come across his physical description somewhere of Daniel Nations and um I'll
00:48:24
continue to look through my notes I'm looking to see if I can find that but right um but I his his mug shot if if I
00:48:31
remember correctly his mug shot is a little deceiving I actually think he might be he he was a little heavier than
00:48:38
I expected right in the weight Department um but the the bridge guy now mind you the bridge guy could be wearing
00:48:47
multiple layers of of clothing and jackets yeah and that's one thing that's very difficult to discern about the
00:48:55
bridge guy is his weight is his build I think it's easier to pick out his height
00:49:00
because you have the you know you have him walking on the bridge you have those rails and um that he's walking on the
00:49:07
most difficult thing about this case as far as the deli case goes is there's so much speculation on what they have that
00:49:14
they have a picture of him that they have more pictures of the the suspect that they have audio that they have
00:49:21
maybe video that there's possible DNA and we keep having these guys become suspects and then being ruled out and
00:49:30
you don't know what is happening with that and we were just talking earlier they had a press conference where they
00:49:37
basically were saying like we don't have much new to share but we want to keep this in the spotlight and people talking
00:49:43
about this and they've had I think over 35 or 38,000 tips yeah that's a lot of tips
00:49:53
yeah the I mean the country really came together I mean not just Indiana super big time in Indiana but you know you and
00:50:00
I remember when this was going on and as the news was breaking it seemed to go National very quickly after the deli
00:50:07
case right and it seemed like everywhere people were were flooding police with these tips well like you said there was
00:50:17
a thousand side-by-side photos that were probably given to law enforcement where
00:50:21
it's hey my neighbor kind of looks like this guy hey there's this Reg sex offender that kind of looks like this
00:50:27
guy hey here's a guy that I found on Facebook that kind of looks like this guy and other than that it was just this
00:50:34
guy kind of looks like the drawing but you have to have more than that what what's the criminal history right and
00:50:40
it's it's so much that but also the suspicion here would be you know so many times when we talk about profiles being
00:50:50
released of the suspected offender in a case be it a serial killer be it a one-off murder be it something as
00:50:58
horrible and polarizing as the deli murders case they often state that they would believe that there would be a huge
00:51:07
change in Behavior by this person and they tell the public keep an eye out for that well in this
00:51:16
scenario we have a guy that fled the whole state of Indiana yeah I mean that wouldn't be outside of the box of what
00:51:24
they're what might be looking for you know they they referenced so many times you might want to question somebody who
00:51:30
had recently sold a vehicle or recently changed certain habits or changed their facial you know their appearance but
00:51:40
this guy he doesn't not look like the composite and he it's known that he fled the state of
00:51:48
Indiana just within months after the murders well and he didn't flee the state and just went into hiding is
00:51:56
now having these acts of violence onto other people the spokesperson Jackie Kirby with the El Paso County Sheriff's
00:52:05
Office admitted quote many similarities in the Watkins case and the deli murders
00:52:11
and was not denying a possible connection she said police in Indiana have requested no further information be
00:52:19
released to the public quote they have asked us not to speak on their case so I am not at Liberty to elaborate on
00:52:27
anything that's related to what happened in Indiana said Kirby the Indiana State
00:52:33
Police investigators left Colorado without charging Daniel nations in the deli murder
00:52:45
case all right we got so much more to get to in Tim Walkins case please won't you join us tomorrow back here in the
00:52:53
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